←2018-04-14 2018-04-15 2018-04-16→ ↑2018 ↑all
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00:45:01 <oerjan> the water is still still
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02:48:53 <zzo38> I have a game with *.py and *.pyc files. If I modify it, is it necessary to do anything about the *.pyc files and if so what?
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03:17:09 <shachaf> `5 w
03:17:11 <HackEso> 1/1:supercalifragilisticexponential growth//Supercalifragilisticexponential growth leaves Graham's number in the dust. \ rdf//RDF is something zzo38 knows about. \ wtf//WTF means Welcome To Finland. \ wisdoom//Wisdoom is realizing just too late how you could have avoided your demise. \ schwa//To schwa is to reduce one or more vowels in a word. Example: "He usually pronounces the names of Indian dishes well, except he always schwas 'Tikka'."
03:18:16 <shachaf> zzo38: I think Python will check the timestamp on the .py and .pyc file and recompile it if necessary.
03:19:55 <zzo38> O, OK. Well, it worked
03:20:58 <zzo38> (Although it did not regenerate the .pyc files; that may be due to a permission error though.)
03:21:43 <zzo38> Still the file is not updated, although the modifications are working
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03:30:39 <zzo38> I just added into "angrydd" the "vs yourself game". I don't know if I did the "proper" way that should be done in a Python programming, although it does work. Rather I put a variable in the event manager, when "vs yourself game" menu is selected it is the same like "dwarf vs dwarf" game but before the game is started sets the variable so any game key will cause both players events.
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03:40:25 <oerjan> . o O ( angrydd the furious welsh )
03:40:35 <zzo38> Who has more than forty eyes? I have made up some character in a role playing game with varying number of eyes, but so far not more than ten, and my current GURPS character has only five eyes anyways.
03:40:48 <zzo38> oerjan: O, is that what it means? I thought it means "Angry Drunk Dwarf"
03:41:32 <oerjan> that was a pun on the welsh name dafydd hth
03:42:36 <zzo38> OK
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05:19:42 <zzo38> Do you know how to make a interactive Turing machine in Magic: the Gathering that will work if both players are assumed to make the optimal play to try to win (or draw if you can't win)?
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06:33:46 <zzo38> (Generally in such a case I mean where the strategy isn't obvious; you may need to prove it based on the Turing machine being implemented too)
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07:52:10 <esowiki> [[Muddle++]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54819 * Singingbanana * (+512) Created page with "Muddle++ is version of [[Muddle]] which looks even more weird! It manages to add a second tape, which reads from the first tape, and then pushes itself to the main tape. Don't..."
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08:48:23 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54820&oldid=54765 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+0)
08:49:02 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54821&oldid=54820 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+0) /* Interface */
08:49:49 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54822&oldid=54821 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (-147) /* Syntax */
08:50:33 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54823&oldid=54822 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+19) /* Features */
08:52:27 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54824&oldid=54823 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+82) /* Interface */
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08:52:45 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54825&oldid=54824 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (-2) /* Features */
08:53:36 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54826&oldid=54825 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+2) /* Features */
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08:58:35 <esowiki> [[AmBored--]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54827 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+2349) Created page with "'''AmBored--''' is an esoteric language written by [[User:Is this the Krusty Krab|Is this the Krusty Krab]]. It is a [[Brainfuck]] derivative written in C++ which adds more co..."
08:59:00 <esowiki> [[AmBored--]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54828&oldid=54827 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (-79) /* Syntax */
09:02:06 <esowiki> [[AmBored++]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54829 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+3210) Created page with "'''AmBored++''' is an esoteric language written by [[User:Is this the Krusty Krab|Is this the Krusty Krab]]. It is a [[Brainfuck]] derivative written in C++ which adds more co..."
09:02:27 <esowiki> [[AmBored++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54830&oldid=54829 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+14) /* Syntax */
09:03:20 <esowiki> [[AmBored--]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54831&oldid=54828 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+3) /* Syntax */
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13:21:17 <esowiki> [[Talk:Takeover]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54832 * Plokmijnuhby * (+1020) Created page with "On examining the CAT section again, I notice a couple of things. # A correct CAT would take input, remove the trailing EOF and print the result. My version of CAT didn't remov..."
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13:30:49 <esowiki> [[Talk:Takeover]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54833&oldid=54832 * Plokmijnuhby * (+69) Forgot to add my name.
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16:07:37 <danil> Are Turnstiles Turing-complete?
16:11:15 <danil> I think not...
16:13:14 <danil> `8ball
16:13:15 <HackEso> It is decidedly so.
16:13:19 <danil> Oh...
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17:14:23 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * LF337 * New user account
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17:28:14 <wob_jonas> zzo38: you know ais's new proof about M:tG being turing complete, with the waterfall model emulation? I think ais523 said it can probably made interactive (from the point of the game, or nondeterministic from the point of the machine) such that a player can give inputs to the machine, and you don't even need to rely on the players playing optimally
17:28:14 <wob_jonas> .
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17:36:21 <wob_jonas> `quote
17:36:22 <HackEso> 94) <fungot> alise: nobody is allowed to fnord me in soviet russia
17:36:26 <fizzie> So wrong: hotel wifi uses 1.1.1.1 as their internal/private sign-in/info/etc. page.
17:37:02 <fizzie> Cloudflare has their public recursive DNS server at the real 1.1.1.1 these days.
17:37:45 <wob_jonas> fizzie: what's a "recursive DNS server"?
17:39:02 <fizzie> One that queries other DNS server. The sort you can point a user at, that ISPs run.
17:39:39 <wob_jonas> I see
17:39:53 <fizzie> As opposed to one that just answers queries about a single domain it's authoritative for.
17:40:10 <wob_jonas> And yes, that's a stupid setup by the hotel. Why don't they just use an address in the ranges reserved for local use?
17:40:28 <fizzie> I think the relevant bit in the DNS protocol is called "recursion enabled".
17:41:28 <fizzie> The IP they gave to my device is a 10.x.y.z one.
17:42:18 <wob_jonas> that sounds fine if they NAT it
17:42:49 <fizzie> Sure, I just mean clearly they know about the actual private ranges too.
17:43:09 <wob_jonas> not necessarily. that might be a default setup for some equipment they bought or software they're using
17:43:35 <fizzie> 1.1.1.0/24 used to be "de-facto reserved", along with 1.2.3.0/24, just because so many people misappropriated it, or sent nonsense traffic to it.
17:44:52 <fizzie> The login page says to type "http://1.1.1.1/info" if I close the login tab, so maybe it's just picked to be easy to remember.
17:45:54 <wob_jonas> they could use a hostname provided by their local DNS for that, instead of an IP address
17:49:35 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54834&oldid=54806 * LF337 * (+318) /* Introductions */
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18:16:35 <esowiki> [[PL/MIX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54835&oldid=53802 * B jonas * (+2)
18:33:04 <esowiki> [[Lost]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54836&oldid=54803 * Plokmijnuhby * (+898)
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18:44:06 <esowiki> [[Ases]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54837 * LF337 * (+1849) Create article
18:47:04 <zzo38> Wifi has their own password mechanism they don't need a webpage; especially is problem if you cannot access the webpage on your device. Use a separate paper for any agreement required (which then mentions the password)
18:47:24 <zzo38> (And that way you won't lose it either)
18:47:52 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54838&oldid=54815 * LF337 * (+56) /* A */ include Ases
18:49:36 <esowiki> [[User:LF337]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54839 * LF337 * (+89) Create my user page
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19:02:35 <esowiki> [[Cookie Cutter]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54840 * Qpliu * (+5233) Created page with "Cookie Cutter is a two-dimensional analog programming language. A Cookie Cutter program, P, is a set of points in a two-dimensional plane, that is applied to the data, D, whi..."
19:02:43 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54841&oldid=54838 * Qpliu * (+20) /* C */
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19:07:57 <wob_jonas> fungot, what's your least favorite color?
19:07:57 <fungot> wob_jonas: ( i believe), which are the most common usage
19:08:04 <wob_jonas> fungot, what's your least favourite colour?
19:08:04 <fungot> wob_jonas: right. i'm partial to darcs. yay!)) in it. the plain tty interface to mzscheme is that its an interpreter... putting random characters in...
19:08:34 <wob_jonas> darcs and mzscheme are your least favourites? I can understand taht
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19:41:08 <esowiki> [[Ases]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54842&oldid=54837 * LF337 * (+76) Include information i've forgotten
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19:51:03 <esowiki> [[Lost]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54843&oldid=54836 * Plokmijnuhby * (+249)
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21:30:29 <zzo38> I think the best way to design stuff is the UNIX philosophy, which is that you have enough ropes to hang yourself, and also a few more just in case. This includes computer programs, and also other stuff.
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21:43:03 <zzo38> Do you like this kind of UNIX philosophy? I think it is good, at least.
21:44:53 <wob_jonas> Usually yes, but not the the extreme. In particular, I don't like how your farbfeld utilities don't give an error or warning message if the magic header of the input image is wrong, and don't even try to verify that the command-line arguments have an approximately correct syntax.
21:45:36 <wob_jonas> But I also don't like frameworks that try to do everything together.
21:45:41 <zzo38> All of the converters do check that the header of the input image at least
21:46:21 <zzo38> (And, of course, these program are public domain; if you don't like it, you are free to modify it. You can also make suggestions of course; some I might use but some I might not use)
21:46:49 <wob_jonas> Yes, and at least you've fixed them so they at least don't run into undefined behavior when the command-line arguments are incorrect. I appreciate that.
21:47:14 <wob_jonas> As for image handling, I've installed gimp 2.10. That branch is at release candidate status.
21:47:35 <wob_jonas> It's a long awaited branch that has a lot of useful new features that 2.8 is not capable of.
21:48:31 <zzo38> Well, OK, although nothing means you are not allowed to have more than one program for image handling (although in some cases they do not work well together; I tried to write a specification to allow it to be fixed)
21:48:51 <wob_jonas> In particular, it handles various color depths for true color, whereas 2.8 can only work with 8 bit depth per color channel; various color profiles; has better previews for transform tools; and has a very new handle transform tool which will be particularly useful for me.
21:49:16 <wob_jonas> zzo38: certainly, I have lots of programs for image handling. just look at http://math.bme.hu/~ambrus/sc/bro .
21:49:58 <wob_jonas> Gimp, Krita, ImageMagick, G'MIC, Darktable, Gwenview, ffmpeg, exiftool, and more.
21:50:13 <zzo38> It is good if now they support 16-bit colours; I have seen a plugin for GIMP to use Farbfeld, although it only supports 8-bits-per-channels and can only use files and not pipes.
21:50:42 <wob_jonas> yes, it supports 16 bit per channel depth too
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21:52:33 <wob_jonas> zzo38: the five options (in gimp) for true color depth are 8 bit integer, 16 bit integer, 32 bit integer, 16 bit float, 32 bit float
21:52:59 <zzo38> Then you have what is needed I suppose
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21:55:14 <wob_jonas> Not today, but I'll definitely use the handle transform to try to align and make composites from some of my photos. The awkward interface of the affine and perspective transforms in gimp 2.8 made that too hard, so it will hopefully be much easier.
21:56:15 <wob_jonas> But for now I have some photos to share that don't need such tricky editing.
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22:02:43 <zzo38> I just use the ff-xwin program I wrote myself to view pictures now
22:03:09 <zzo38> (I still have ImageMagick installed, but don't need it much now that I have Farbfeld Utilities)
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22:21:30 <zzo38> Some of the programs you list, I use
22:23:43 <zzo38> Such as, Apache, Fossil, SQLite, and 7-Zip (I use the command-line 7-Zip though), and Swiss Ephemeris (I have used this to determine when the eclipse was; I also wrote a interface to use Swiss Ephemeris with JavaScript codes)
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22:26:33 <wob_jonas> yes, I think you were the one that pointed me to swiss ephemeris
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22:29:29 <zzo38> Yes, maybe that is
22:30:19 <zzo38> There are some things it does not do, such as figuring what time it is on other planets, but it does most things it needs to do.
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22:41:19 <zzo38> Can they add Free Hero Mesh into the Debian and Ubuntu package repositories once I write Free Hero Mesh?
22:42:10 <wob_jonas> zzo38: if you (or someone else) package it suitably to a deb so it can be built from source automatically on a stock debian system (with all dependencies already packaged) and submit it to them, then they probably can (for the next version)
22:42:41 <wob_jonas> and it also has to be licensed as free software to get included
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22:45:45 <wob_jonas> and of course ideally installing it shouldn't conflict with the functionality of the rest of the system
22:54:43 <zzo38> The game engine itself is licensed as free software (and so are its dependencies)
22:56:30 <wob_jonas> zzo38: basically everything in the source package and its dependencies, required to build from source and install, has to be licensed as free software to get in the main archives
22:57:27 <wob_jonas> so eg. if you need a graphics pack to play the game, then that has to be licensed as freely distributable too
22:57:44 <zzo38> The only dependencies are SDL1 and SQLite (it also depends on smallxrm, although that is included with it). Some of the header files are auto-generated by JavaScript programs, so it helps to have Node.js installed if you want to alter those files. It does not affect the functionality of the rest of the system.
22:58:34 <zzo38> It does not include a graphics pack; the graphics are not part of the game engine itself. Although, puzzle sets that are included with it should be made to be free software too, currently it does not include any.
22:59:15 <zzo38> The only graphics included in the program itself are the X cursor shapes and the PC ROM font
22:59:37 <zzo38> Hopefully having those won't cause a problem.
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23:00:46 <wob_jonas> sorry, I'm laughing at this two-headed swan with a crown
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23:03:35 <zzo38> If people will contribute puzzles that are free software then they can be included with it too
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23:10:46 <zzo38> (Free Hero Mesh uses SQLite for two things: to store a user cache database, and to allow user-entered SQL statements to do stuff in the program. This program also uses sqlite3_mprintf() and some of those functions. The puzzle sets themself though have their own programming language, the Free Hero Mesh programming language.)
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23:29:50 <zzo38> Probably at first there will be no sounds and music either, but later versions might have those things.
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23:41:30 <oerjan> <wob_jonas> they could use a hostname provided by their local DNS for that, instead of an IP address <-- but that would _also_ break for anyone who had set their DNS to 1.1.1.1
23:42:25 <wob_jonas> oerjan: not if the hotel used an IP address from the private use areas for their DNS
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23:42:31 <wob_jonas> or for their login server
23:42:39 <wob_jonas> whatever that thing is
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23:42:50 <oerjan> wob_jonas: no, i mean if someone had 1.1.1.1 set on their laptop
23:42:53 <oerjan> or the like
23:43:16 <wob_jonas> how would that be a problem? the hotel shouldn't use 1.1.1.1 at all
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23:43:47 <oerjan> wob_jonas: because if the user has that as DNS, they won't _see_ the hotel's local hostnames
23:44:01 <wob_jonas> ah
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23:44:47 <oerjan> solution: the hotel could use 1.1.1.1 as their DNS :P
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←2018-04-14 2018-04-15 2018-04-16→ ↑2018 ↑all