00:18:01 -!- oerjan has joined.
00:24:23 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Stillwwater * New user account
00:27:30 -!- stillww has joined.
00:27:54 -!- stillww has quit (Client Quit).
00:45:01 <oerjan> the water is still still
01:05:26 -!- tromp has joined.
01:10:07 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
01:14:06 -!- sleffy has joined.
01:35:15 -!- augur has joined.
01:40:41 -!- tromp has joined.
01:45:50 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
01:48:57 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
02:34:46 -!- tromp has joined.
02:39:21 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
02:48:53 <zzo38> I have a game with *.py and *.pyc files. If I modify it, is it necessary to do anything about the *.pyc files and if so what?
03:09:57 -!- brandonson has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
03:11:31 -!- brandonson has joined.
03:17:11 <HackEso> 1/1:supercalifragilisticexponential growth//Supercalifragilisticexponential growth leaves Graham's number in the dust. \ rdf//RDF is something zzo38 knows about. \ wtf//WTF means Welcome To Finland. \ wisdoom//Wisdoom is realizing just too late how you could have avoided your demise. \ schwa//To schwa is to reduce one or more vowels in a word. Example: "He usually pronounces the names of Indian dishes well, except he always schwas 'Tikka'."
03:18:16 <shachaf> zzo38: I think Python will check the timestamp on the .py and .pyc file and recompile it if necessary.
03:19:55 <zzo38> O, OK. Well, it worked
03:20:58 <zzo38> (Although it did not regenerate the .pyc files; that may be due to a permission error though.)
03:21:43 <zzo38> Still the file is not updated, although the modifications are working
03:26:34 -!- variable has quit (Quit: Found 1 in /dev/zero).
03:28:38 -!- tromp has joined.
03:30:39 <zzo38> I just added into "angrydd" the "vs yourself game". I don't know if I did the "proper" way that should be done in a Python programming, although it does work. Rather I put a variable in the event manager, when "vs yourself game" menu is selected it is the same like "dwarf vs dwarf" game but before the game is started sets the variable so any game key will cause both players events.
03:33:48 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
03:37:59 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
03:38:35 -!- augur has joined.
03:40:25 <oerjan> . o O ( angrydd the furious welsh )
03:40:35 <zzo38> Who has more than forty eyes? I have made up some character in a role playing game with varying number of eyes, but so far not more than ten, and my current GURPS character has only five eyes anyways.
03:40:48 <zzo38> oerjan: O, is that what it means? I thought it means "Angry Drunk Dwarf"
03:41:32 <oerjan> that was a pun on the welsh name dafydd hth
03:43:08 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
04:04:01 -!- augur has joined.
04:07:52 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
04:08:29 -!- augur has joined.
04:13:15 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
04:24:29 -!- Guest12618 has joined.
04:46:17 -!- variable has joined.
04:59:55 -!- MoonyTheDwarf has changed nick to moonmoon.
05:00:04 -!- moonmoon has changed nick to moony.
05:10:36 -!- sleffy has joined.
05:16:24 -!- tromp has joined.
05:19:42 <zzo38> Do you know how to make a interactive Turing machine in Magic: the Gathering that will work if both players are assumed to make the optimal play to try to win (or draw if you can't win)?
05:20:57 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
05:49:48 -!- Guest12618 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
06:33:46 <zzo38> (Generally in such a case I mean where the strategy isn't obvious; you may need to prove it based on the Turing machine being implemented too)
06:46:19 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
06:53:35 -!- tromp has joined.
07:09:36 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite).
07:52:10 <esowiki> [[Muddle++]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54819 * Singingbanana * (+512) Created page with "Muddle++ is version of [[Muddle]] which looks even more weird! It manages to add a second tape, which reads from the first tape, and then pushes itself to the main tape. Don't..."
07:57:02 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
08:48:23 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54820&oldid=54765 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+0)
08:49:02 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54821&oldid=54820 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+0) /* Interface */
08:49:49 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54822&oldid=54821 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (-147) /* Syntax */
08:50:33 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54823&oldid=54822 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+19) /* Features */
08:52:27 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54824&oldid=54823 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+82) /* Interface */
08:52:43 -!- imode has joined.
08:52:45 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54825&oldid=54824 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (-2) /* Features */
08:53:36 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54826&oldid=54825 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+2) /* Features */
08:56:58 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
08:58:35 <esowiki> [[AmBored--]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54827 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+2349) Created page with "'''AmBored--''' is an esoteric language written by [[User:Is this the Krusty Krab|Is this the Krusty Krab]]. It is a [[Brainfuck]] derivative written in C++ which adds more co..."
08:59:00 <esowiki> [[AmBored--]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54828&oldid=54827 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (-79) /* Syntax */
09:02:06 <esowiki> [[AmBored++]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54829 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+3210) Created page with "'''AmBored++''' is an esoteric language written by [[User:Is this the Krusty Krab|Is this the Krusty Krab]]. It is a [[Brainfuck]] derivative written in C++ which adds more co..."
09:02:27 <esowiki> [[AmBored++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54830&oldid=54829 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+14) /* Syntax */
09:03:20 <esowiki> [[AmBored--]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54831&oldid=54828 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+3) /* Syntax */
09:22:09 -!- erkin has joined.
11:24:32 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
12:11:09 -!- brandonson has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
12:12:25 -!- brandonson has joined.
13:18:36 -!- danil has joined.
13:21:17 <esowiki> [[Talk:Takeover]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54832 * Plokmijnuhby * (+1020) Created page with "On examining the CAT section again, I notice a couple of things. # A correct CAT would take input, remove the trailing EOF and print the result. My version of CAT didn't remov..."
13:21:49 -!- danil has quit (Client Quit).
13:28:42 -!- danil has joined.
13:30:01 -!- danil has quit (Client Quit).
13:30:49 <esowiki> [[Talk:Takeover]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54833&oldid=54832 * Plokmijnuhby * (+69) Forgot to add my name.
13:38:02 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
14:04:28 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
14:05:56 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
15:00:05 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu.
15:15:57 -!- sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
15:17:59 -!- sprocklem has joined.
15:20:45 -!- variable has quit (Quit: Found 1 in /dev/zero).
15:37:42 -!- danil has joined.
15:49:24 -!- brandonson has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
15:50:52 -!- danil has quit (Quit: danil).
15:51:02 -!- brandonson has joined.
15:56:01 -!- danil has joined.
16:01:48 -!- impomatic has joined.
16:07:37 <danil> Are Turnstiles Turing-complete?
16:14:55 -!- danil has quit (Quit: danil).
16:15:31 -!- danil has joined.
16:26:42 -!- danil has quit (Quit: danil).
16:30:23 -!- danil has joined.
16:30:31 -!- danil has quit (Client Quit).
16:37:04 -!- imode has joined.
16:58:31 -!- sleffy has joined.
17:00:52 -!- xkapastel has joined.
17:10:16 -!- brandonson has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
17:10:23 -!- brandonson has joined.
17:14:23 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * LF337 * New user account
17:26:06 -!- wob_jonas has joined.
17:28:14 <wob_jonas> zzo38: you know ais's new proof about M:tG being turing complete, with the waterfall model emulation? I think ais523 said it can probably made interactive (from the point of the game, or nondeterministic from the point of the machine) such that a player can give inputs to the machine, and you don't even need to rely on the players playing optimally
17:31:13 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined.
17:36:22 <HackEso> 94) <fungot> alise: nobody is allowed to fnord me in soviet russia
17:36:26 <fizzie> So wrong: hotel wifi uses 1.1.1.1 as their internal/private sign-in/info/etc. page.
17:37:02 <fizzie> Cloudflare has their public recursive DNS server at the real 1.1.1.1 these days.
17:37:45 <wob_jonas> fizzie: what's a "recursive DNS server"?
17:39:02 <fizzie> One that queries other DNS server. The sort you can point a user at, that ISPs run.
17:39:53 <fizzie> As opposed to one that just answers queries about a single domain it's authoritative for.
17:40:10 <wob_jonas> And yes, that's a stupid setup by the hotel. Why don't they just use an address in the ranges reserved for local use?
17:40:28 <fizzie> I think the relevant bit in the DNS protocol is called "recursion enabled".
17:41:28 <fizzie> The IP they gave to my device is a 10.x.y.z one.
17:42:49 <fizzie> Sure, I just mean clearly they know about the actual private ranges too.
17:43:09 <wob_jonas> not necessarily. that might be a default setup for some equipment they bought or software they're using
17:43:35 <fizzie> 1.1.1.0/24 used to be "de-facto reserved", along with 1.2.3.0/24, just because so many people misappropriated it, or sent nonsense traffic to it.
17:44:52 <fizzie> The login page says to type "http://1.1.1.1/info" if I close the login tab, so maybe it's just picked to be easy to remember.
17:45:54 <wob_jonas> they could use a hostname provided by their local DNS for that, instead of an IP address
17:49:35 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54834&oldid=54806 * LF337 * (+318) /* Introductions */
17:51:37 -!- variable has joined.
18:16:35 <esowiki> [[PL/MIX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54835&oldid=53802 * B jonas * (+2)
18:33:04 <esowiki> [[Lost]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54836&oldid=54803 * Plokmijnuhby * (+898)
18:35:27 -!- variable has quit (Quit: /dev/null is full).
18:36:10 -!- danil has joined.
18:36:33 -!- danil has quit (Client Quit).
18:44:06 <esowiki> [[Ases]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54837 * LF337 * (+1849) Create article
18:47:04 <zzo38> Wifi has their own password mechanism they don't need a webpage; especially is problem if you cannot access the webpage on your device. Use a separate paper for any agreement required (which then mentions the password)
18:47:24 <zzo38> (And that way you won't lose it either)
18:47:52 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54838&oldid=54815 * LF337 * (+56) /* A */ include Ases
18:49:36 <esowiki> [[User:LF337]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54839 * LF337 * (+89) Create my user page
18:50:09 -!- danil has joined.
18:56:46 -!- danil has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
18:57:59 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:02:35 <esowiki> [[Cookie Cutter]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54840 * Qpliu * (+5233) Created page with "Cookie Cutter is a two-dimensional analog programming language. A Cookie Cutter program, P, is a set of points in a two-dimensional plane, that is applied to the data, D, whi..."
19:02:43 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54841&oldid=54838 * Qpliu * (+20) /* C */
19:05:49 -!- danil has joined.
19:07:57 <wob_jonas> fungot, what's your least favorite color?
19:07:57 <fungot> wob_jonas: ( i believe), which are the most common usage
19:08:04 <wob_jonas> fungot, what's your least favourite colour?
19:08:04 <fungot> wob_jonas: right. i'm partial to darcs. yay!)) in it. the plain tty interface to mzscheme is that its an interpreter... putting random characters in...
19:08:34 <wob_jonas> darcs and mzscheme are your least favourites? I can understand taht
19:10:19 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
19:14:08 -!- danil has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
19:35:14 -!- augur has joined.
19:41:08 <esowiki> [[Ases]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54842&oldid=54837 * LF337 * (+76) Include information i've forgotten
19:49:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
19:49:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host).
19:49:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
19:51:03 <esowiki> [[Lost]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54843&oldid=54836 * Plokmijnuhby * (+249)
21:07:24 -!- sleffy has joined.
21:11:34 -!- sprocklme has joined.
21:13:20 -!- sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
21:15:37 -!- Cale has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
21:21:56 -!- Cale has joined.
21:29:35 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
21:30:29 <zzo38> I think the best way to design stuff is the UNIX philosophy, which is that you have enough ropes to hang yourself, and also a few more just in case. This includes computer programs, and also other stuff.
21:41:10 -!- Cale has joined.
21:41:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:43:03 <zzo38> Do you like this kind of UNIX philosophy? I think it is good, at least.
21:44:53 <wob_jonas> Usually yes, but not the the extreme. In particular, I don't like how your farbfeld utilities don't give an error or warning message if the magic header of the input image is wrong, and don't even try to verify that the command-line arguments have an approximately correct syntax.
21:45:36 <wob_jonas> But I also don't like frameworks that try to do everything together.
21:45:41 <zzo38> All of the converters do check that the header of the input image at least
21:46:21 <zzo38> (And, of course, these program are public domain; if you don't like it, you are free to modify it. You can also make suggestions of course; some I might use but some I might not use)
21:46:49 <wob_jonas> Yes, and at least you've fixed them so they at least don't run into undefined behavior when the command-line arguments are incorrect. I appreciate that.
21:47:14 <wob_jonas> As for image handling, I've installed gimp 2.10. That branch is at release candidate status.
21:47:35 <wob_jonas> It's a long awaited branch that has a lot of useful new features that 2.8 is not capable of.
21:48:31 <zzo38> Well, OK, although nothing means you are not allowed to have more than one program for image handling (although in some cases they do not work well together; I tried to write a specification to allow it to be fixed)
21:48:51 <wob_jonas> In particular, it handles various color depths for true color, whereas 2.8 can only work with 8 bit depth per color channel; various color profiles; has better previews for transform tools; and has a very new handle transform tool which will be particularly useful for me.
21:49:16 <wob_jonas> zzo38: certainly, I have lots of programs for image handling. just look at http://math.bme.hu/~ambrus/sc/bro .
21:49:58 <wob_jonas> Gimp, Krita, ImageMagick, G'MIC, Darktable, Gwenview, ffmpeg, exiftool, and more.
21:50:13 <zzo38> It is good if now they support 16-bit colours; I have seen a plugin for GIMP to use Farbfeld, although it only supports 8-bits-per-channels and can only use files and not pipes.
21:50:42 <wob_jonas> yes, it supports 16 bit per channel depth too
21:50:45 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
21:52:33 <wob_jonas> zzo38: the five options (in gimp) for true color depth are 8 bit integer, 16 bit integer, 32 bit integer, 16 bit float, 32 bit float
21:52:59 <zzo38> Then you have what is needed I suppose
21:54:11 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGIRL, dying...).
21:55:14 <wob_jonas> Not today, but I'll definitely use the handle transform to try to align and make composites from some of my photos. The awkward interface of the affine and perspective transforms in gimp 2.8 made that too hard, so it will hopefully be much easier.
21:56:15 <wob_jonas> But for now I have some photos to share that don't need such tricky editing.
21:57:57 -!- Cale has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
21:58:51 -!- Cale has joined.
22:02:43 <zzo38> I just use the ff-xwin program I wrote myself to view pictures now
22:03:09 <zzo38> (I still have ImageMagick installed, but don't need it much now that I have Farbfeld Utilities)
22:12:29 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
22:21:30 <zzo38> Some of the programs you list, I use
22:23:43 <zzo38> Such as, Apache, Fossil, SQLite, and 7-Zip (I use the command-line 7-Zip though), and Swiss Ephemeris (I have used this to determine when the eclipse was; I also wrote a interface to use Swiss Ephemeris with JavaScript codes)
22:24:35 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:26:33 <wob_jonas> yes, I think you were the one that pointed me to swiss ephemeris
22:26:46 -!- Cale has joined.
22:29:29 <zzo38> Yes, maybe that is
22:30:19 <zzo38> There are some things it does not do, such as figuring what time it is on other planets, but it does most things it needs to do.
22:30:57 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
22:40:14 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:40:32 -!- tromp has joined.
22:41:19 <zzo38> Can they add Free Hero Mesh into the Debian and Ubuntu package repositories once I write Free Hero Mesh?
22:42:10 <wob_jonas> zzo38: if you (or someone else) package it suitably to a deb so it can be built from source automatically on a stock debian system (with all dependencies already packaged) and submit it to them, then they probably can (for the next version)
22:42:41 <wob_jonas> and it also has to be licensed as free software to get included
22:45:24 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
22:45:45 <wob_jonas> and of course ideally installing it shouldn't conflict with the functionality of the rest of the system
22:54:43 <zzo38> The game engine itself is licensed as free software (and so are its dependencies)
22:56:30 <wob_jonas> zzo38: basically everything in the source package and its dependencies, required to build from source and install, has to be licensed as free software to get in the main archives
22:57:27 <wob_jonas> so eg. if you need a graphics pack to play the game, then that has to be licensed as freely distributable too
22:57:44 <zzo38> The only dependencies are SDL1 and SQLite (it also depends on smallxrm, although that is included with it). Some of the header files are auto-generated by JavaScript programs, so it helps to have Node.js installed if you want to alter those files. It does not affect the functionality of the rest of the system.
22:58:34 <zzo38> It does not include a graphics pack; the graphics are not part of the game engine itself. Although, puzzle sets that are included with it should be made to be free software too, currently it does not include any.
22:59:15 <zzo38> The only graphics included in the program itself are the X cursor shapes and the PC ROM font
22:59:37 <zzo38> Hopefully having those won't cause a problem.
23:00:02 -!- danieljabailey has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.5+deb2build2 - http://znc.in).
23:00:21 -!- danieljabailey has joined.
23:00:46 <wob_jonas> sorry, I'm laughing at this two-headed swan with a crown
23:01:04 -!- augur has joined.
23:02:09 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
23:03:35 <zzo38> If people will contribute puzzles that are free software then they can be included with it too
23:05:05 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:10:46 <zzo38> (Free Hero Mesh uses SQLite for two things: to store a user cache database, and to allow user-entered SQL statements to do stuff in the program. This program also uses sqlite3_mprintf() and some of those functions. The puzzle sets themself though have their own programming language, the Free Hero Mesh programming language.)
23:15:18 -!- augur has joined.
23:29:50 <zzo38> Probably at first there will be no sounds and music either, but later versions might have those things.
23:32:09 -!- oerjan has joined.
23:40:48 -!- augur_ has joined.
23:41:23 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:41:30 <oerjan> <wob_jonas> they could use a hostname provided by their local DNS for that, instead of an IP address <-- but that would _also_ break for anyone who had set their DNS to 1.1.1.1
23:42:25 <wob_jonas> oerjan: not if the hotel used an IP address from the private use areas for their DNS
23:42:26 -!- augur has joined.
23:42:39 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:42:50 <oerjan> wob_jonas: no, i mean if someone had 1.1.1.1 set on their laptop
23:43:16 <wob_jonas> how would that be a problem? the hotel shouldn't use 1.1.1.1 at all
23:43:28 -!- augur has joined.
23:43:47 <oerjan> wob_jonas: because if the user has that as DNS, they won't _see_ the hotel's local hostnames
23:44:31 -!- augur__ has joined.
23:44:47 <oerjan> solution: the hotel could use 1.1.1.1 as their DNS :P
23:45:49 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
23:48:01 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
23:54:20 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
23:54:44 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:55:14 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.