00:00:30 ,o0(Ethin) 00:00:31 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54914&oldid=54882 * King Ethan * (+207) 00:11:30 -!- sleffy has joined. 00:23:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:32:01 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:32:50 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGIRL, dying...). 00:34:01 -!- augur has joined. 00:40:51 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 00:41:48 " shachaf: did you know that technically those are supposed to be *greek* letters" => I don't buy that. I think they're supposed to be latin letters, and also originate in a latin word "ordo", but let me check what Knuth says. 00:42:58 " This includes nu and omega." => those aren't even similar to latin letters. the only lowercase greek letters that are similar to latin letters are omicron, which looks exactly the same as a latin o, and upsilon, which looks similar to an italic latin v 00:43:18 nu looks like v and omega looks like w 00:44:31 only in bad handwriting, in which case you'll have bigger problems than those letters 00:45:14 ωellob_jonas. 00:46:02 Good old Lettes. 00:46:03 +r 00:46:30 [[JR]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54915 * King Ethan * (+48) Created page with "JR is a [[Deadfish]] variant with more commands." 00:46:53 [[JR]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54916&oldid=54915 * King Ethan * (+29) 00:48:48 `? ꙮ 00:48:50 ​ꙮ is the official Unicode character of #esoteric. 00:49:05 Or it might be named from the german word Ordnung 00:49:14 which I think is etymologically related 00:49:53 HAIL ERŸS!@ 00:49:54 -@ 00:50:11 but I guess the latin is more likely, because it's an old sign: Knuth says it was introduced by Paul Bachmann in 1894 00:50:35 heck, dunno, german could be possible in 1894 already 00:50:45 -!- doesthiswork has left. 00:51:57 [[JR]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54917&oldid=54916 * King Ethan * (+1163) 00:52:55 Knuth-CM doesn't seem to specifically mention whether it's a latin or greek letter; I'll also have to check TAOCP 00:53:20 oerjan: why do you think it's supposed to be a greek letter? 00:53:48 APic: did you partake of a hot-dog latelÿ? 00:53:58 Certainly not. 00:54:11 * APic can not even contact his Foodstuffsprovider right now 24/7 00:54:21 * Hooloovo0 throws apic a hot dog 00:54:34 Because the Burger-King at the giasinger Bahnhof is currently renovating. 00:54:43 Whoaaaaah 00:54:49 * APic needs to eat some Icecream now 00:54:51 brb 00:58:57 TAOCP 1.2.11.1 specifically says it's called "big-oh", which seems to imply that it's not the greek letter, but the latin (or cyrillic or coptic one) 00:59:13 it would be called "big-omikron" if it was greek 01:02:22 [[JR]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54918&oldid=54917 * King Ethan * (+26) /* External resources */ 01:04:17 wob_jonas: for the same reason it's called the berenstein bears hth 01:06:34 alternatively, one of my twins stole my keyboard hth 01:06:41 I guess if it says "big-oh", we could still decide that it's a cyrillic, coptic, or armenian letter 01:07:02 wikipedia seems to agree with you, anyway. 01:11:08 [[JR]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54919&oldid=54918 * King Ethan * (+47) /* External resources */ 01:15:35 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PRIESTLY CHICKEN). 01:38:04 -!- moei has joined. 01:41:43 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 03:32:20 -!- ais523 has joined. 03:47:34 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:48:47 -!- ais523 has joined. 03:57:17 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:58:30 -!- ais523 has joined. 04:20:33 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:21:46 -!- ais523 has joined. 04:39:50 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:41:03 -!- ais523 has joined. 04:50:05 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:51:17 -!- ais523 has joined. 05:14:09 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:35:41 -!- augur has joined. 05:42:28 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 06:10:57 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:12:10 -!- ais523 has joined. 06:17:51 fizzie: I saw https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dbj67MPXcAAJD5g.png and was going to ask you whether you got a sword 06:18:02 But apparently I already asked before? 06:18:19 I should download the new logs so I have something more organized than my current hodgepodge. 06:21:04 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 06:54:28 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:16:43 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 07:19:13 -!- augur has joined. 07:19:19 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:23:45 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:56:57 -!- augur has joined. 08:11:48 -!- probablymoony has joined. 08:12:21 -!- moony has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:38:46 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:01:19 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:02:03 -!- augur has joined. 09:06:35 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 09:08:17 -!- augur has joined. 10:03:55 -!- incomprehensibly has quit. 10:04:24 -!- incomprehensibly has joined. 10:26:27 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:36:16 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:36:36 -!- augur has joined. 10:46:38 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:53:11 `` [ "x3" > "x4" ] && echo 1 10:53:13 1 10:53:19 `` [ "x3" < "x4" ] && echo 1 10:53:21 1 10:53:43 I'm confused, what am I doing wrong? 10:54:13 something with [ ] vs [[ ]] 11:29:59 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:48:15 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:55:50 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 12:10:28 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 12:12:25 -!- LKoen has joined. 12:14:06 [ is a command 12:14:11 [[ is part of the syntax 12:14:21 so [ can special case < > 12:14:27 for [ they're just redirections 12:14:44 so [ x3 > x4 ] is the same as [ x3 ] >x4 12:14:56 which returns true because x3 is not an empty string 12:15:24 izabera | so [ can special case < > meant to say so [[ can special case < > 12:15:43 `` [[ x3 < x4 ]] && echo 1 12:16:02 bot plz 12:22:09 izabera: argh. 12:22:14 izabera: thanks 12:23:40 -!- shikhin has quit (*.net *.split). 12:23:40 -!- HackEso has quit (*.net *.split). 12:23:40 -!- FreeFull has quit (*.net *.split). 12:23:41 -!- j-bot has quit (*.net *.split). 12:23:41 -!- FireFly has quit (*.net *.split). 12:23:41 -!- digitalcold has quit (*.net *.split). 12:26:11 -!- shikhin has joined. 12:26:11 -!- HackEso has joined. 12:26:11 -!- FreeFull has joined. 12:26:11 -!- j-bot has joined. 12:26:11 -!- FireFly has joined. 12:26:11 -!- digitalcold has joined. 12:27:09 -!- danieljabailey has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:28:57 -!- danieljabailey has joined. 12:38:55 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:12:25 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 13:12:53 ``` (( 3 > 4 )) && echo three is more than four; (( 3 < 4 )) && echo four is more than three 13:12:54 four is more than three 13:13:35 int-e: you want (( which is a magical syntax analog for let , in the same sense as [[ is a magical syntax analog for test 13:14:04 let does arithmetic, test checks file attributes, plus string comparisons for some reason 13:14:29 [[ foobar =~ f.*r ]] regex 13:14:49 [[ foobar = f*r ]] glob 13:15:20 [[ 10 -gt 2 ]] math 13:15:24 it's all for historical reasons, let and $(()) and (( )) and $[] sprang up to partly replace the really stupid expr command 13:15:33 [[ -v var ]] testing if a variable is defined 13:15:42 other parts are replaced by test and by shell substitution 13:16:00 $[] is funny in bash 13:16:00 including the newfangled ${v/p/r} substitution 13:16:01 wob_jonas: I want a string comparison though 13:16:07 not a numerical one 13:16:09 int-e: ok 13:16:20 did you know that $(( )) and $[ ] are parsed differently? 13:16:41 I did not 13:16:58 `` printf %d $[1&123456789>>{31..0}] 13:16:59 00000111010110111100110100010101 13:17:09 can't do that with $(( )) 13:17:13 `` [ "x3" \< "x4" ] && echo 1 13:17:14 1 13:17:19 `` [ "x3" \> "x4" ] && echo 1 13:17:20 No output. 13:18:31 `stat x4 13:18:32 ​ File: x4 \ Size: 0 Blocks: 0 IO Block: 1024 regular empty file \ Device: 12h/18dInode: 1204956 Links: 1 \ Access: (0644/-rw-r--r--) Uid: ( 1000/ UNKNOWN) Gid: ( 1000/ UNKNOWN) \ Access: 2018-04-25 10:53:12.000000000 +0000 \ Modify: 2018-04-25 10:53:12.000000000 +0000 \ Change: 2018-04-25 10:53:12.000000000 +0000 \ Birth: - 13:18:37 `rm x4 13:18:39 No output. 13:27:48 bash has come a long way since I started using linux. back then it didn't have ${v/p/r}, it didn't have (( )) or [[ ]] , it didn't have |& , it didn't have redirection with the file descriptor chosen automatically and put into a shell variable 13:27:56 it didn't have any of these useful modern features 13:29:19 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 13:47:40 I thought ${//} and (( )) and [[ ]] were all quite old 13:50:00 i believe they're at least bash 2.x 13:50:05 like 20 years old 14:11:02 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 14:27:17 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:36:10 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 15:01:09 -!- shikhin has quit (*.net *.split). 15:01:09 -!- HackEso has quit (*.net *.split). 15:01:09 -!- FreeFull has quit (*.net *.split). 15:01:09 -!- j-bot has quit (*.net *.split). 15:01:09 -!- FireFly has quit (*.net *.split). 15:01:09 -!- digitalcold has quit (*.net *.split). 15:01:11 -!- optimus[m] has quit (*.net *.split). 15:01:11 -!- brandonson has quit (*.net *.split). 15:01:11 -!- propumpkin has quit (*.net *.split). 15:01:12 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (*.net *.split). 15:01:12 -!- joast has quit (*.net *.split). 15:01:12 -!- \oren\_ has quit (*.net *.split). 15:01:47 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 15:01:47 -!- joast has joined. 15:01:47 -!- \oren\_ has joined. 15:03:21 -!- optimus[m] has joined. 15:03:23 -!- shikhin has joined. 15:03:23 -!- HackEso has joined. 15:03:23 -!- FreeFull has joined. 15:03:23 -!- j-bot has joined. 15:03:23 -!- FireFly has joined. 15:03:23 -!- digitalcold has joined. 15:04:13 -!- brandonson has joined. 15:04:13 -!- propumpkin has joined. 15:05:10 -!- optimus[m] has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:05:27 -!- ineiros has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:05:39 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 15:06:27 -!- moei has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:07:42 -!- moei has joined. 15:09:05 -!- ineiros has joined. 15:09:11 -!- LKoen has joined. 15:23:50 -!- MDude has joined. 15:34:33 -!- Deewiant_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:55:46 -!- xkapastel has joined. 16:01:16 -!- XYZ_ has joined. 16:01:30 anyone here? 16:01:35 nvm 16:01:38 -!- XYZ_ has left ("http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere."). 16:02:30 that was quick 16:02:59 Apparently no-one is here 16:03:11 my guess is that they saw the topic 16:04:58 -!- sleffy has joined. 16:05:11 Ooh, that's conceivable 16:10:23 -!- sparr has quit (*.net *.split). 16:10:41 -!- sparr__ has joined. 16:13:15 -!- copumpkin has joined. 16:20:57 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:29:03 -!- optimus[m] has joined. 16:36:31 -!- LKoen has joined. 16:36:52 -!- lynn has quit. 16:37:16 -!- lynn has joined. 16:52:43 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:52:53 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:00:38 -!- LKoen has joined. 17:27:15 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:42:59 -!- oerjan has set topic: Welcome to the international millipede for esoteric programming language discussion, design, development and deployment! | http://esolangs.org | logs: http://esolangs.org/logs/ http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf. 17:45:54 -!- imode has joined. 18:01:41 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 18:02:02 -!- arseniiv has joined. 18:02:15 hey again! 18:03:35 I’ve written out some notes on my dialect of that unnamed lazy functional language for a person possibly non-acquainted with FP, so these may be of some interest to someone somewhere: https://gist.github.com/arseniiv/811949865aabe30e114ab01088cfb8d7 18:06:00 also maybe you could suggest a more informative example on evaluation. Mine could look uneasy 18:06:26 also haven’t anyone remember yet how it could be called? ::) 18:07:06 maybe I should create a page on the wiki… 18:07:43 (but you see my English is strange-looking. It’s because I don’t know it) 18:29:42 `? dictionary 18:29:44 dictionary? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:30:00 `? library 18:30:02 library? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:30:08 `? package 18:30:09 package? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:30:14 wow 18:30:31 `? book 18:30:32 book? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:30:44 `? lambdabot 18:30:45 lambdabot is a fully functional bot. just don't ask about @src. or the neighbours. 18:31:02 `? fungot 18:31:02 arseniiv: this makes it so inefficient and frustrating for all but the first.... think there's an official scheme48 debian package.)) the reader gymnastics 18:31:03 fungot is our beloved channel mascot and voice of reason. 18:32:25 `? variable 18:32:26 variable? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:33:12 `? logic 18:33:13 Logic is just another way the true Scotsman is keeping you down. 18:33:27 `? categor* 18:33:28 categor*? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:35:12 `? esolang 18:35:14 esolang? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:35:28 `wisdom categor 18:35:29 ​bicategory//Bicategories are just categories where composition is only associative up to an isomorphism. 18:35:49 :D 18:37:58 `wisdom categor 18:37:59 ​category-helpdesk//category-helpdesk is a helpdesk with identity and composition. This channel isn't it. 18:41:42 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:44:47 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:06:22 -!- xkapastel has joined. 19:09:53 -!- brandonson has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:10:15 -!- Deewiant has joined. 19:11:23 -!- brandonson has joined. 19:35:48 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:50:07 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 19:51:08 -!- friendlyGoat has joined. 19:51:49 -!- erkin has joined. 19:52:15 -!- friendlyGoat has quit (Client Quit). 20:17:20 -!- sleffy has joined. 20:34:27 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 20:34:51 " i believe they're at least bash 2.x" => yes. I used bash before 2.0. bash was one of the first unix software I got familiar with. 20:35:55 we did have ${v##p} and ${v%%p} and ${v#p} and ${v%p} though, so I could use that for string manip 20:37:11 " I’ve written out some notes on my dialect of that unnamed lazy functional language" => have you named it Nora's Nailcare 2: Reverse Polish Full Movie HD yet? Or is that name inappropriate for a language that isn't stack-based? 20:44:47 :D I think so 20:46:08 I have seen some of Nora’s Nailcare, seems there’s a very different story… 20:48:37 wob_jonas, oh goodness is there a spinoff 20:48:46 I suggest naming it FLFLFL (feverishly loving, forever lazy functional language) 20:48:59 `? Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download 20:49:00 Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download is the most readable functional programming language out there. 20:49:29 he’s right 20:49:43 That movie is rated 3.7/10 on imdb.com. 20:49:49 I kind of want to watch it. 20:51:11 shachaf, Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster? 20:51:13 I tried once 20:51:24 It wasn't very enjoyable to me 20:51:57 Taneb: Did you download it? 20:52:01 We need a different name then. But a pun about a curry restaurant would be cheap. Maybe something about a closure of Nora's spa? 20:52:06 shachaf, maybe 20:52:11 Long time ago 20:52:15 I think I was streaming it 20:52:21 Anyway, I'm off to bed now 20:52:31 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGIRL, dying...). 20:52:41 Taneb: You gotta download it real fast. 20:53:15 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 21:05:23 wob_jonas: Curryency? 21:06:11 it’d be neat if there was something about combinators 21:06:34 *combinator, as in “any combinator” 21:09:07 oh, sometime ago I’ve misheard “please come by” in a song as “please combine”, isn’t it a pretty name? 21:10:11 `smlist 21:10:12 smlist: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy Cale 21:10:21 http://www.supermegacomics.com/index.php?i=458 21:10:25 `thanks Cale 21:10:26 Thanks, Cale. Thale. 21:12:09 Cale: so do you know whether there's a universal property that characterizes derivatives twh 21:13:47 Is Super Mega back on a regular schedule? 21:14:42 Also do you want to be on ysaclist? 21:27:09 http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/ggmain/strips/ggmain20180425e.jpg has a cute spider. A spider with cutlery. I wonder whether it has/will actually feature/d in the comics... 21:28:51 I don't know of a universal property that characterises derivatives... 21:29:17 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_algebra 21:29:22 you might start there though 21:30:07 (cont.: also we could rename my proposed `seq` (to make IO usable) to `please`: please (output 0x34) (output 0x32) // 0x34 = succ (succ 0x32), 0x32 = …) 21:30:30 Cale: We had a proposal here the other day. 21:30:34 That sort of gives you some kind of arrow-theoretical law to be satisfied, which you could probably generalise 21:31:05 For a class of functions G : X -> Y 21:31:13 Given a function f : X -> Y and a point x : X 21:31:45 The best G-approximation of f at x is a function g0 : G such that for all g : G, there's a neighborhood A of x, such that for all x' in A, d(g0(x'), f(x')) <= d(g(x'), f(x')) 21:32:17 And then you can let G be constant functions to get continuity and affine functions to get derivatives. 21:32:28 Maybe? Does this work? 21:32:41 I think it doesn't work in any metric space but maybe for R -> R 21:33:28 Not sure that works... 21:34:43 Well, there's presumably some sense in which derivatives are "the best linear approximation around a point". How would you characterize one linear approximation being better than another? 21:34:50 What about something like f(x) = x when x is rational and f(x) = -x otherwise. This is continuous at 0, but won't quite satisfy that condition. 21:35:04 Hmm. 21:35:35 So the definition you get for f continuous at x is... 21:36:18 for all y : Y, there's a neighborhood A of x, such that for all x' in A, d(f(x'), f(x)) <= d(f(x'), y) 21:36:44 Oh, sorry, I misread, maybe that does work 21:37:43 You get to pick the neighbourhood based on the other function which is challenging the approximation-hood of g0. 21:38:15 Right. 21:38:54 So I think this works for your function. 21:39:07 hmm 21:39:16 yeah 21:39:29 It's a pretty unusual definition of continuity, though. 21:39:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:39:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 21:39:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:40:46 You can pick A so that |f(x')| will be very small, smaller than |f(x') - y| 21:42:51 yeah 21:43:00 It just reduces to the usual definition 21:44:03 I'd normally expect something like "for each neighborhood of f(x)" 21:51:01 -!- LKoen has joined. 22:10:59 -!- brandonson has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 22:12:23 -!- brandonson has joined. 22:36:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:46:19 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:38:31 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:46:27 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. 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