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00:13:30 <wob_jonas> aglist http://abstrusegoose.com/587 => ah nice. and it's even slightly connected to today's https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/candyland , because there the bearded guy thinks being omniscient takes the excitement out of games
00:15:27 <wob_jonas> "<oerjan> you can actually write 3 haskell quines that have no common characters." => oh wow! that I'd like to see.
00:15:41 <wob_jonas> this is about https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/q/153948/6691 for context
00:16:22 <wob_jonas> and yes, the lowercase vowels are an important limit
00:19:30 <wob_jonas> "<arseniiv> it’s charming, and extended naturals (νx.1+x) allows to abstract over timeout or “step timeout” in evaluators/launchers/etc.: you can specify a finite timeout/step count, or you can specify ∞, and the code of the evaluating thing would be the same," => I can use ordinary natural numbers for that. just set the timeout to a very large val
00:20:05 <oerjan> wob_jonas: actually https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/q/163607/
00:20:24 <oerjan> i haven't posted mine yet though
00:20:35 <wob_jonas> which reminds me of a failed attempt of that, http://www.galactanet.com/oneoff/twarrior.html (short story Twarrior by Andy Weir)
00:22:40 <wob_jonas> oerjan: oh nice. I should think of whether I can find three mutually exclusive ways of printing in perl. using the loophole where you write a function instead of printing output would be nice, but it doesn't seem to help here because it's really hard to define a useful subroutine without using the keyword "sub"
00:23:30 <shachaf> oerjan: Are trigraphs permitted?
00:23:43 <wob_jonas> they want independent quines that print themselves
00:23:44 <shachaf> I guess that only helps you in the program with {-# LANGUAGE CPP #-}.
00:23:53 <wob_jonas> it might be possible to find three of those in perl
00:24:18 <oerjan> shachaf: i don't think so, would require an extra option.
00:24:50 <oerjan> and that option includes a lower case p iirc
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00:27:15 <wob_jonas> still needs the three ways to print or sub though
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00:29:00 <wob_jonas> I can see why it's easier in ruby, with its $><< nonsense
00:29:15 <wob_jonas> and so many redundant built-in methods in general
00:33:29 <wob_jonas> wait, the top score for ruby is only 2 so far?
00:34:17 <wob_jonas> it must be possible to improve that
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05:55:50 <shachaf> `` ln -s 'off by two' wisdom/'off by two error'
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09:41:27 <HackEso> ysaclist 75: boily shachaf
09:41:37 <shachaf> Cale: Should you be on ysaclist? Seems like it might be up your alley.
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09:45:23 <Cale> shachaf: does that refer to You Suck at Cooking?
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10:04:00 <Cale> I probably don't need notifications beyond a youtube subscription for that
10:04:29 <shachaf> Oh, if you use YouTube subscriptions I guess that works for you.
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10:11:13 <wob_jonas> oerjan: I'm not sure yet, but I think three quines might be possible in perl. My idea is that the first one would go like eval~'...' , the second one like sub{{s///}...{s///}/(.*)/} and the third could have all the useful characters like dollar sign and equals and digits and print chr
10:11:48 <wob_jonas> I'll be interested in threeing the three Haskell quines though. That one sounds much harder than three perl quines.
10:12:48 <Cale> shachaf: I've found that if I turn off history and use subscriptions, YouTube's recommendations are more predictable and of higher quality.
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10:13:24 <Cale> (though most of the time, they're just things which are somewhere in my subscriptions anyway)
10:13:33 <shachaf> Sounds plausible, but I only use YouTube logged out anyway.
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11:51:16 <arseniiv> wob_jonas> but you never know if some big number is enough! (Okay, sometimes you do.) OTOH ∞ is always enough! ::)
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13:07:15 <wob_jonas> arseniiv: most computer hardware we have won't be able to live for more than a thousand years. (ten years is more typical, but we want a safe upper bound.) and even if you pay extra for long-lasting hardware and regularly maintaining it, you probably can't make it live for longer than 10**11 years.
13:08:09 <wob_jonas> And if you don't care about those physical constraints, then what gives you the right to use generalized natural numbers as the delay in the program, but not assume that it's meaningful to run the program for a generalized natural number of cycles?
13:09:26 <wob_jonas> The case of Twarrior only failed because someone was lazy and used too small a number. That could also happen if your program uses fixints that don't allow you to set a long enough interval, but this is probably less relevant these days than it used to be on the more limited hardware of the 80s.
13:13:42 <Taneb> wob_jonas: what if you're a radical anti-platonist and believe that numbers are not real in any sense?
13:15:42 <wob_jonas> Taneb: um, "numbers are not real" how? do you mean just someone who's agnostic about ultrafinitism, thinking that 10**(10**100) might not exist? because even those people believe that a number so small as to serve as the timeout in a program exists.
13:15:52 <wob_jonas> or someone who thinks computers aren't real either?
13:16:13 <wob_jonas> I don't understand, because I never believed that numbers weren't real.
13:16:17 <Taneb> wob_jonas: the latter, anything that claims to be manipulating numbers is just guessing and making things up
13:17:22 <wob_jonas> ah, so one who thinks that science doesn't work and we aren't able to make valid predictions about the future because we can't be sure that we have correctly determined the laws of physics?
13:17:28 <wob_jonas> are there people who are both like that and are programmers?
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14:36:48 <arseniiv> wob_jonas: ah, fair about technological and physical limits. I didn’t think about them this time. Still, to be sure with finite naturals, one have to know what numbers are sufficiently big. It may be a quick arithmetic, it may be worse in some hypothetical case :)
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14:41:29 <arseniiv> but not assume that it's meaningful to run the program for a generalized natural number of cycles?> you mean, if I assume a program can run for an infinite time and still return something? Yeah, or course I don’t, unless we’d aquire something more potent than a Turing-complete system allows us
14:46:14 <arseniiv> also, in a lazy language we can use extended naturals in place of normal Peano ones, if we’re careful enough. There too, I’m more focused on an idea rather than on its application possibilities
14:49:11 <arseniiv> I mean, we could take ∞ = fix Succ and throw it somewhere where data is awaited, and that code could be written so well that it will eat ∞ too
14:50:36 <arseniiv> not that it’s something untrivial, I’m just glad about small things
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15:48:38 <Cale> shachaf: have you seen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHZr6P1csiY already?
15:50:09 <Cale> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1bEWoblGZA haha, I missed this one too
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19:51:03 <zzo38> Science doesn't work perfectly (for the reasons mentioned), but it does wokr well, and it does work better than the other way. Mathematics is better but it doesn't make the scientific experiment to try to figure out what is the law of physics that is why you need the science.
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20:38:29 <wob_jonas> oh nice, oerjan posted https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/164114/6691
20:40:47 <shachaf> Can you post a non-referral link so I can click?
20:41:12 <shachaf> My phone makes it tricky to copy and paste links.
20:42:15 <wob_jonas> https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/164114/
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21:02:51 <zzo38> wob_jonas: Did you test my changes to ff-composite.c?
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