Esoteric programming languages

 though
< 1527365515 893400 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it might be a bug in MediaWiki
> 1527365725 360499 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55365&oldid=55364 5* 03Vorpal 5* (-23) 10
> 1527365776 211622 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55366&oldid=55365 5* 03Vorpal 5* (-2) 10/* String behaviour */
> 1527365793 509889 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55367&oldid=55366 5* 03Vorpal 5* (-2) 10/* Gates */
< 1527365864 185895 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what, wrong page?
> 1527365890 912467 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Perpetum Mobile14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55368 5* 03Vorpal 5* (+12778) 10New language
< 1527365968 975640 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 Managed to screw up the introduce yourself, and the wiki isn't letting me fix it. Please help?
< 1527365969 148390 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1527366014 802559 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: maybe you are an admin and can fix it too?
> 1527366356 602793 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55369&oldid=55367 5* 03Ais523 5* (+64467) 10rv Vorpal: author request (Vorpal can't revert their edit themself due to the spam filter being particularly protective of this page)
< 1527366387 896240 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm and I typoed the language page
< 1527366389 182716 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit
> 1527366403 330785 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Vorpal 5*  10moved [[02Perpetum Mobile10]] to [[Perpetuum Mobile]]: Fix typo
> 1527366415 851232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55372&oldid=55360 5* 03Vorpal 5* (+23) 10/* P */ Adding Perpetuum Mobile
< 1527366567 539572 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 Would like you to take a look on this new Perpetuum Mobile language as well
< 1527366567 693709 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
> 1527366874 970652 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Perpetuum Mobile14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55373&oldid=55370 5* 03Vorpal 5* (+2969) 10/* Belts and boxes (belts) */
> 1527367013 795661 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Perpetuum Mobile14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55374&oldid=55373 5* 03Vorpal 5* (-45) 10Improve header strucuture
> 1527367174 184795 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Perpetuum Mobile14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55375&oldid=55374 5* 03Vorpal 5* (+28) 10
> 1527367293 866484 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Perpetuum Mobile14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55376&oldid=55375 5* 03Vorpal 5* (+127) 10/* Computational class */
< 1527367405 311999 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how do I start a numerical list in mediawiki at 0?
< 1527367484 898692 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, apparently I'd have to rewrite it in HTML. Think I'll pass
> 1527368417 672820 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Perpetuum Mobile14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55377&oldid=55376 5* 03Vorpal 5* (+0) 10/* Gates */
< 1527368946 537405 :Guest78368!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorpallo
< 1527368954 880322 :Guest78368!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia NICK :quintopia
< 1527368984 743787 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia NICK :Guest36995
< 1527368999 423252 :Guest36995!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't give me a message about identifying. weird.
< 1527369003 829716 :Guest36995!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is going on freenode
< 1527369109 387809 :Guest36995!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i did get it
< 1527369132 224739 :Guest36995!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia NICK :quintopia
> 1527369832 863665 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Perpetuum Mobile14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55378&oldid=55377 5* 03Vorpal 5* (+669) 10/* Energy magnitude detection */
< 1527369855 233119 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest13947: services bugged out yesterday
< 1527369860 371469 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1527369862 312347 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: ^
< 1527369875 982424 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: also, see this new fancy esolang
< 1527370102 299619 :Iona|I-40197!~rltcgsc@191.5.188.149 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527370111 554139 :Iona|I-40197!~rltcgsc@191.5.188.149 PART :#esoteric
> 1527370660 466086 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Perpetuum Mobile14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55379&oldid=55378 5* 03Vorpal 5* (+38) 10/* Computational class */
< 1527370766 701240 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :good niht
< 1527370768 440876 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :night*
< 1527372732 440843 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527373117 378928 :tswett2!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527373295 414369 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1527373307 109098 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar EGLL
< 1527373308 42530 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :EGLL 262150Z 05010KT 9999 VCTS FEW060CB 20/15 Q1017 TEMPO 7000 TSRA BKN045
< 1527373337 312107 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thunderstorms and lightning.
< 1527373718 520099 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made up a Magic: the Gathering card:   {2W} Enchantment - Saga ;; I, II, III--Create a 1/1 white Bird Warrior creature token with flying and banding. ;; IV--Target creature gets +0/+2 until end of turn.
< 1527374088 741753 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't banding deprecated?
< 1527375291 877764 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, yes, but it's still in the rules.
> 1527375394 597375 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Boolet14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55380&oldid=55362 5* 03Joshop 5* (+28) 10
< 1527376712 154691 :SoniEx2!~quassel@unaffiliated/soniex2 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527376731 604292 :SoniEx2!~quassel@unaffiliated/soniex2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there 2 distinct self BCT programs that produce the same result?
> 1527376845 951187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Boolet14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55381&oldid=55380 5* 03Joshop 5* (+75) 10
< 1527376895 171702 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think banding is good anyways, but yes they no longer use it but I do. The rules still support it.
< 1527378358 737897 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dyvqjmxbyzxrjhlj QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1527379228 606817 :KBOIYJIronGibbet!~lnlnv@179.213.171.191 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527379260 1480 :KBOIYJIronGibbet!~lnlnv@179.213.171.191 PART :#esoteric
< 1527379918 480886 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:61dd:f961:1b22:9d9b QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
> 1527380795 888082 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Boolet14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55382&oldid=55381 5* 03Joshop 5* (+42) 10
< 1527382046 750491 :tswett2!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett QUIT :Quit: Bye
< 1527382072 164394 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527382337 42286 :SoniEx2!~quassel@unaffiliated/soniex2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, with normal bct, 0 and 00 always delete the same data
< 1527382347 129048 :SoniEx2!~quassel@unaffiliated/soniex2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with self bct, 0 and 00 actually produce 0 and 00, respectively
< 1527382372 363388 :SoniEx2!~quassel@unaffiliated/soniex2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a self-bct that produces the same result as another self-bct?
< 1527383241 790004 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that familiar with BCT, honestly. Maybe?
< 1527383392 348227 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: /dev/null is full
< 1527383423 481518 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527383470 127449 :rodgort!~rodgort@68.ip-149-56-14.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1527383573 387468 :rodgort!~rodgort@68.ip-149-56-14.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527384044 430320 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527384070 945806 :SoniEx2!~quassel@unaffiliated/soniex2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, okay
< 1527384161 179840 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1527384660 788954 :tswett2!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527384858 29312 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1527385322 190501 :tswett2!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett QUIT :Quit: Bye
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< 1527385750 569732 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
> 1527386338 498067 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07@text14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55383&oldid=55352 5* 03Oerjan 5* (-1) 10Removing newline that messes up Mediawiki's braindead diff
> 1527386398 536947 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55384&oldid=55335 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (+45) 10
> 1527387927 871897 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Boolet14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55385&oldid=55382 5* 03Oerjan 5* (-25) 10Bold title, section headings
< 1527388633 765460 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: /dev/null is full
> 1527389076 514649 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Oerjan 5*  10deleted "[[02Perpetum Mobile10]]": Misspelling
< 1527389145 57712 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527390505 429262 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eywgxqdssnsopqzz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527390995 272056 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527391016 92277 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages
< 1527391840 824633 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Vorpal nice article!
< 1527391840 907625 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1527394699 345076 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some esolang should definitely be called Σ:3
< 1527394725 404923 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there's already a person with that name.
< 1527394742 198944 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(pronounces as “purry”)
< 1527394745 23600 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what?
< 1527394760 706975 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who?
< 1527394760 865595 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's a cat.
< 1527394763 751253 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get it now.
< 1527394772 90354 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering about that.
< 1527394774 822342 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1527398286 824859 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eywgxqdssnsopqzz QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1527402157 752867 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527402261 398357 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :good morning
< 1527402269 304585 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages
< 1527402327 440068 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, why had my laptop suspended to RAM during the night, that isn't supposed to happen
< 1527402367 327039 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :not while plugged in
< 1527403640 908382 :plokmijnuhby!4e95330e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.149.51.14 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527403650 678289 :plokmijnuhby!4e95330e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.149.51.14 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1527405055 158520 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
< 1527405129 364464 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving...
< 1527405131 19254 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: /dev/null is full
< 1527405295 382842 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527405316 920800 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Client Quit
< 1527405350 252243 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: extension idea: sub assemblies, that you can attach to letters and then insert them anywhere in the playing field (or other sub assemblies). Each sub-assembly can have 4 different connections (one per cardinal direction), that can be either a string, a wire or a particle
< 1527405378 885053 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds annoying to implement proper execution with respect to turn order for that though
< 1527405405 327585 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527405409 921176 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Client Quit
< 1527405597 522915 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :should two instances of the same subassembly be copies or the same instance though?
< 1527405631 842294 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :copies, and this is basically macros, same instance and it becomes very hard to ensure consistent behaviour
< 1527405954 530606 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: what happens if a piston pushes a box off the conveyor?
< 1527405964 625219 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a string pulls it off
< 1527406236 864291 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a piston pushes a box off the end of a belt?
< 1527406276 298643 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :because right now there is nothing a piston can't push, so what does two pistons simultaneously pushing each other do
> 1527407296 972771 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Perpetuum Mobile14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55386&oldid=55379 5* 03Vorpal 5* (+154) 10/* Playing field elements */ Clarify and document undefined piston behaviour
< 1527407630 377822 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a sokoban game instead of drawing the figure of a man draw the figure of a kind of animal that could push the boxes but would not be able to pull or climb over or fly over the boxes.
< 1527407817 463267 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: or maybe the roof height is just too low to allow you to climb over? Or the blocks are too tall and slippery?
> 1527407969 167888 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Paradoctor 5*  10New user account
> 1527408313 319757 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55387&oldid=55369 5* 03Paradoctor 5* (+134) 10/* Introductions */ +
< 1527408351 334366 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is the other way
> 1527408765 182748 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Perpetuum Mobile14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55388&oldid=55386 5* 03Vorpal 5* (+1258) 10/* Sub assemblies (sub) */
< 1527408811 726089 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: or the guy is playing a game, with rules, and don't want to break them to avoid being disqualified?
> 1527409083 735263 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Paradoctor14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55389 5* 03Paradoctor 5* (+87) 10info
> 1527409107 261891 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Perpetuum Mobile14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55390&oldid=55388 5* 03Vorpal 5* (+91) 10/* Turn processing order */ Halting condition added
< 1527409267 366625 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect that when I implement this language I will only implement the IO extension. At least to begin with
< 1527409318 155843 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course that is already the case, regardless of the pictures.
< 1527409419 262599 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yeah but I mean you are playing a guy who plays a game, as opposed to playing the game directly ;P
< 1527409508 35757 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, OK, if that is what you like
< 1527409545 366547 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like meta stuff so, yeah
< 1527409574 720996 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
> 1527411658 824171 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Thue14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55391&oldid=54332 5* 03Paradoctor 5* (-74) 10/* Computational model */ it's the other way around: Thue systems are symmetric semi-Thue systems
> 1527412145 206530 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Perpetuum Mobile14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55392&oldid=55390 5* 03Plokmijnuhby 5* (+566) 10
> 1527412401 202227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Plokmijnuhby14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55393&oldid=55274 5* 03Vorpal 5* (+430) 10/* Perpetuum Mobile */ new section
> 1527412613 190271 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Perpetuum Mobile14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55394&oldid=55392 5* 03Vorpal 5* (+226) 10/* Loops and splitting */ Added clarification on how energy (doesn't) split.
< 1527412704 465433 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527413222 913355 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1527413768 682894 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
> 1527413929 192560 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Plokmijnuhby14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55395&oldid=55393 5* 03Plokmijnuhby 5* (+517) 10/* Perpetuum Mobile */
> 1527415116 540480 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Plokmijnuhby14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55396&oldid=55395 5* 03Vorpal 5* (+237) 10/* Perpetuum Mobile */
> 1527415127 644107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Plokmijnuhby14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55397&oldid=55396 5* 03Vorpal 5* (+1) 10/* Perpetuum Mobile */
> 1527415225 343396 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Perpetuum Mobile14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55398&oldid=55394 5* 03Vorpal 5* (-88) 10/* Scaling down energy */ Remove misinformed example.
< 1527415431 518549 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it possible to construct a mechanism that moves infinitely far? You can push with pistons, and pull with strings, but I still don't see a way to make a self contained "glider" as it were
< 1527416302 512217 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: should two instances of the same subassembly be copies or the same instance though? => I think copies, it’s easier to reason about and implement. E. g. what to do if one instance is pulled from the west and another isn’t?
< 1527416344 720171 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you’ve already observed that
< 1527416366 783805 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: hm, right, also pulling will be messy there, since if won't pull if it has a string connection on that side
< 1527416383 336506 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead transferring the force into the sub assembly
< 1527416525 785248 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens if a piston pushes a box off the conveyor? => originally I thought boxes should be unable to move from conveyors, but maybe it could just sit in place if pushed/pulled from. We can even initialize such a standalone box in code—it just shouldn’t touch any belt from their corresponding directions
< 1527416648 970880 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use pistons to push between two conveyors!
< 1527416681 242760 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :or onto a conveyor
< 1527417500 996990 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to think of a clean way to implement the language now, it is not a clean language, so that makes it harder
< 1527417544 828078 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :think having dispatch tables per interaction type, keyed on entity type might work
< 1527420354 128062 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527420634 302710 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
> 1527420641 63868 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Perpetuum Mobile14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55399&oldid=55398 5* 03Vorpal 5* (+90) 10/* Scaling down energy */ Actually doesn't work like I thought, since energy is specified as buffered
< 1527421683 703857 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@unaffiliated/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527421806 314571 :wob_jonas!b03f187e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.126 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527421874 464764 :wob_jonas!b03f187e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" In a sokoban game [...] draw the figure of a kind of animal that could push the boxes but would not be able to pull or climb over or fly over the boxes." => that would be difficult, because you usually see domestic animals *pull* cargo with a harness on a cart or sled, or carry cargo on their back, rather then push cargo.
< 1527421995 807642 :wob_jonas!b03f187e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.126 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1527423184 304839 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: wob_jonas: it may be a robot with perfectly spherical hands, so that it couldn’t grab anything but could push
< 1527423213 87491 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it even could be spherical all by itself
< 1527423282 792220 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FTR there’s a game called Enigma utilizing mouse-controlled balls, and it has great many frustrating Sokoban-like levels
< 1527423538 358943 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO a perfect Enigma level (and a common one is pretty close to perfection here) combines need for extensive paper notes, impossible dexterity, an infinite table (mouse dances pretty far out there) and an ability to make/consult notes simultaneously with making crazy jigs with your mouse-wielding hand. IDK what kind of people are the game’s target audience
< 1527423689 447231 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a tool assistance target to me
< 1527424121 239227 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe those high-scorers are lent a robotic hand
< 1527425022 498912 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527426271 856595 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527426292 568870 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: or the Monster in the Dark from ''The Order of the Stick'' (webcomic). He's better at pushing than pulling. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0701.html
< 1527426855 45034 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, I'm not convinced by Plokmijnuhby argument that Perpetuum Mobile is TC. I'm not sure you can actually usefully get at the bignum information.
< 1527426943 1865 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: ooh, been years since I thought about that game (Enigma). Even longer since I played it
< 1527426991 387203 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@unaffiliated/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1527427269 89168 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`q
< 1527427270 412293 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :351)  meanwhile, I've been running a program for over 24 hours (getting close to 48 now) which is calculating digits of pi, in binary   so far, it has found four digits   I hope it will find the fifth some time this week
< 1527427274 405506 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`'
< 1527427275 125087 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :876)  btw, I finally discovered what a burrito was, recently   they're kind of nice to eat   but don't really resemble monads
< 1527427277 805004 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`w
< 1527427278 661479 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​zzo38mtg//http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/cards.txt
< 1527427279 773171 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`?
< 1527427280 935589 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1527427287 940692 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5
< 1527427289 725996 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:464)  I hope in the future people curse me for creating such a shitty protocol. \ 1252)  What is an esolang?   shachaf: It's an archaic term for an Esolang \ 90)  you move on the tape and shit \ 1084)  a dark day for all of humankind   Bike: Wrong. Not all of humankind lives in the same timezone.   a dark day for some of humankind   OK \ 1053)  Hmm, is an Electronic Signat
> 1527427373 25929 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Perpetuum Mobile14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55400&oldid=55399 5* 03Vorpal 5* (+595) 10/* Sub assemblies (sub) */
< 1527427420 516490 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`e
< 1527427421 56657 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: e: not found
< 1527427610 946594 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` for x in {1..255}; do type -p "$(perl -e 'print chr$ARGV[0]' $x)"; done
< 1527427616 500766 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ single-byte shortcuts
< 1527427622 393964 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/ \ /hackenv/bin/ \ /hackenv/bin/" \ /hackenv/bin/# \ /hackenv/bin/' \ /hackenv/bin/( \ /hackenv/bin/* \ /hackenv/bin/1 \ /hackenv/bin/2 \ /hackenv/bin/3 \ /hackenv/bin/4 \ /hackenv/bin/5 \ /hackenv/bin/? \ /hackenv/bin/@ \ /hackenv/bin/` \ /hackenv/bin/f \ /hackenv/bin/h \ /hackenv/bin/n \ /hackenv/bin/q \ /hackenv/bin/w
< 1527427625 751695 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? `f
< 1527427626 793217 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`f? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1527427629 370842 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`f
< 1527427630 18492 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :try: `f command filename
< 1527427633 843660 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? f
< 1527427634 961380 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :f? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1527427642 808049 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that do?
< 1527427651 69374 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? h
< 1527427652 90823 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :h? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1527427652 319722 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? #
< 1527427653 422508 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`# //` is useful if you want to add a comment to HackEgo history for things like `sled or `le/rn.
< 1527427672 799591 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`h
< 1527427703 302746 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1527427762 269096 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: hehe
< 1527427783 357905 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha. bin/h is what produces the whelcohme output
< 1527427789 511200 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? whelcohmhe
< 1527427790 512773 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :whelcohmhe? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1527427794 135675 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever the name is of that command
< 1527427805 198437 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` echo bin/w*h*c*h*m
< 1527427806 575124 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/w*h*c*h*m
< 1527427812 218517 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` echo bin/w*h*m
< 1527427812 958053 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/w*h*m
< 1527427816 165386 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
> 1527427817 83489 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Perpetuum Mobile14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55401&oldid=55400 5* 03Vorpal 5* (+615) 10/* String behaviour */ Improve and extend examples
< 1527427829 682924 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: so, looked at my new fancy esolang yet?
< 1527427839 586232 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` grep -Rls welcome wisdom
< 1527427842 2435 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/glados
< 1527427859 723135 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully it is interesting and at least somewhat original
< 1527427861 507138 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` grep -Rls welcome bin
< 1527427862 540232 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/добро-пожаловать \ bin/wElCoMe \ bin/elcome \ bin/velkommen \ bin/welcome \ bin/välkommen \ bin/jrypbzr \ bin/velkomin \ bin/Welcome \ bin/WeLcOmE \ bin/tervetuloa \ bin/willkommen \ bin/welcome \ bin/wlcm \ bin/welkom \ bin/ozcome \ bin/bienvenue \ bin/autowelcome \ bin/bienvenido \ bin/wlcmr \ bin/rwelcome \ bin/ουελκομε \ bin/benvenuto \ bin/emoclew \ bin/relcome \ bin/04w08e09l11c12o13m04e \ bin/WELCOME \ bin/zalgre
< 1527427887 709159 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` echo wisdom/w*h*m*e
< 1527427888 346816 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/w*h*m*e
< 1527427896 669645 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever that was
< 1527427980 403832 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@2.129.123.248 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527427985 910571 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@2.129.123.248 QUIT :Changing host
< 1527427985 910629 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@unaffiliated/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric
> 1527427989 338439 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Perpetuum Mobile14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55402&oldid=55401 5* 03Vorpal 5* (+95) 10/* Extensions */
< 1527428077 395238 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yoebluhxvhdpmuwa JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527428130 383712 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe => that was about Monster in the Dark
> 1527428157 522595 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Perpetuum Mobile14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55403&oldid=55402 5* 03Vorpal 5* (+144) 10/* File format */
< 1527428227 252947 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`autowelcome somebody
< 1527428227 878982 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Autowelcome disabled.
< 1527430036 297366 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm out for a while, see you all later
< 1527430462 911200 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527430485 86372 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :QUINTHELLOPIA!
< 1527435515 200700 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1527436028 230394 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: RIG CHICKEN
< 1527436694 611409 :wob_jonas!b03f1876@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.118 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1527436722 719547 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527436952 39348 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527437385 275281 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1527438858 335686 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yoebluhxvhdpmuwa QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1527439482 71890 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527439836 778196 :screwsss!7ca91d7e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.169.29.126 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527439842 292329 :screwsss!7ca91d7e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.169.29.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this place is really esoteric
< 1527439866 896282 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome screwsss
< 1527439868 153034 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :screwsss: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
< 1527439976 679521 :screwsss!7ca91d7e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.169.29.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome shachaf 
< 1527439977 788082 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
< 1527440180 766395 :tswett2!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527440213 448696 :screwsss!7ca91d7e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.169.29.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome HackEso 
< 1527440214 579743 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEso: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
< 1527440218 353415 :screwsss!7ca91d7e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.169.29.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1527440234 366729 :screwsss!7ca91d7e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.169.29.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome tswett 
< 1527440235 564178 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
< 1527440237 733070 :screwsss!7ca91d7e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.169.29.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome Cale 
< 1527440238 898815 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
< 1527440241 458264 :screwsss!7ca91d7e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.169.29.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome GeekDude 
< 1527440242 602905 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :GeekDude: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
< 1527440245 315076 :screwsss!7ca91d7e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.169.29.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome joast 
< 1527440246 462823 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :joast: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
< 1527440247 755020 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1527440249 741819 :screwsss!7ca91d7e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.169.29.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome Lord_of_Life 
< 1527440250 793876 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lord_of_Life: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
< 1527440253 513752 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please stop
< 1527440260 908253 :screwsss!7ca91d7e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.169.29.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :soz just testing
< 1527440296 734159 :screwsss!7ca91d7e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.169.29.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i can see a lots going on in here
< 1527440305 971866 :screwsss!7ca91d7e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.169.29.126 PART :#esoteric
< 1527440388 483904 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: Found 1 in /dev/zero
< 1527441447 987364 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1527441468 26236 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527441865 501599 :tswett2!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett QUIT :Quit: Bye
< 1527441885 55268 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527442941 907049 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, what was that
< 1527444590 790440 :alexandre!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527444865 223348 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1527445287 230596 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1527446232 58212 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1527447020 950550 :alexandre!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: TELEPATHIC CHICKEN
> 1527447528 90464 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Appinv 5*  10New user account
> 1527447706 882171 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55404&oldid=55387 5* 03Appinv 5* (+161) 10/* Introductions */
> 1527447951 970220 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55405&oldid=55372 5* 03Appinv 5* (+17) 10/* C */
< 1527448814 224977 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's call it enthusiasm
> 1527448907 689353 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Css Script14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55406 5* 03Appinv 5* (+410) 10Created page with "Css script is a language created by Appinv to draw css shapes. it created in an attempt to solve the monthly challenges of creative club  commands :      fill black     rect 1..."
> 1527449074 397600 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Css Script14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55407&oldid=55406 5* 03Appinv 5* (+76) 10
> 1527449282 266312 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Css Script14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55408&oldid=55407 5* 03Appinv 5* (-27) 10/* external resources */
> 1527449311 754654 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Css Script14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55409&oldid=55408 5* 03Appinv 5* (+1) 10/* external resources */
> 1527449405 892076 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55410&oldid=55405 5* 03Appinv 5* (+17) 10/* G */
> 1527449548 396281 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Css Script14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55411&oldid=55409 5* 03Appinv 5* (+49) 10
> 1527450129 126751 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GreenBerry14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55412 5* 03Appinv 5* (+482) 10Created page with "greenBerry is a one line statement language created by Abdur-rahmaan Janhangeer as an in-shell utility for python programs  == commands == examples     var x = 1     class Man..."
< 1527450293 512424 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1527451364 733736 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :When using 7-Zip to load a ELF executable file it has eight files numbered from 0 to 7. What does each of them mean? It says file 6 is empty, and file 2 is stored with a smaller size than the actual size (the rest use the actual size), what is that?
< 1527451575 384746 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: maybe they correspond to the sections listed by readelf -S 
< 1527451589 998498 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :though sampling some files on my system have way more than 8
< 1527451615 944537 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah it could be the segments listed in readelf -l
< 1527451622 36588 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :seem to have 8 of those
< 1527451680 308333 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think it is a particularly useful view that 7-zip gives you
< 1527451711 600204 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :readelf and objdump are far superior tools for digging in ELF binaries
< 1527451728 958626 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is also a nice ncurses-based hex editor/disassembler/code editor called "ht"
< 1527451763 273249 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night
< 1527451804 909319 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, here it gives me section names as "file names"
< 1527451823 585189 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://paste.debian.net/1026828/
< 1527451838 344798 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though tbh it would never have occurred to me to try that)
< 1527451912 513948 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think that would be more useful, but on my computer it doesn't (it also displays "Characteristics = Executable file" instead of "Characteristics = Shared object file")
< 1527451990 258605 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/ls: ELF 64-bit LSB pie executable x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2, for GNU/Linux 2.6.32, stripped
< 1527452040 87310 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :7-Zip does list sections and resources for Windows executable files (although only 32-bit executables; it doesn't work with 16-bit Windows executables)
< 1527452042 185239 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, what Vorpal said... it doesn't seem to be the right tool for digging into ELF files.
< 1527452107 959627 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what about 64-bit ones?
< 1527452110 545211 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know, I just wanted to know why it does what it does.
< 1527452123 95772 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't know; I don't have any 64-bit Windows programs on my computer.
< 1527452139 778557 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that is quite an old computer then
< 1527452282 331395 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have 64-bit Linux though
< 1527452324 705388 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night for real now
< 1527452363 760700 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
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> 1527452741 825171 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Boolet14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55413&oldid=55385 5* 03Joshop 5* (+28) 10
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< 1527470006 25671 :tswett2!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
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> 1527479295 447019 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Thue14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55414&oldid=55391 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+103) 10Change back to the more descriptive original, except keeping the link and changing restricted -> generalized
< 1527479753 236799 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
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< 1527486916 956096 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( is lady Ariadne in any relation to Boris? )
< 1527486970 482887 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know.
< 1527487186 37329 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1527491754 118895 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
> 1527494697 195012 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03CharCoding 5*  10New user account
< 1527495044 228437 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1527495136 608222 :CharCoding!c3d2bd62@gateway/web/freenode/ip.195.210.189.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I registered an account on the wiki but I don't understand the introduction page. How do I sign my username?
< 1527495238 484878 :CharCoding!c3d2bd62@gateway/web/freenode/ip.195.210.189.98 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0_o nevermind, figured it out using preview
< 1527495244 233114 :CharCoding!c3d2bd62@gateway/web/freenode/ip.195.210.189.98 QUIT :Client Quit
> 1527495271 118820 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55415&oldid=55404 5* 03CharCoding 5* (+173) 10
< 1527495324 886669 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1527497193 104353 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55416&oldid=55415 5* 03Fizzie 5* (+133) 10Clarify instructions
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< 1527501676 738867 :olsner!~salparot@c83-253-165-33.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :*.net *.split
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< 1527501681 972184 :heroux_!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-bhypzmfahowfwsyq NICK :heroux
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< 1527503340 328616 :Effilry!znc@freenode/staff/firefly NICK :FireFly
< 1527503985 802928 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1527504529 130844 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? gdpr
< 1527504530 114711 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :gdpr? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1527504541 957132 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? password
< 1527504542 868649 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The password of the month is .
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< 1527523149 981985 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 NICK :arseniiv
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< 1527527401 351064 :olsner_!~salparot@c83-253-165-33.bredband.comhem.se NICK :olsner
< 1527527438 672629 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi olsner 
< 1527527474 714799 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: ping I have a new esolang idea (not a full language yet)
< 1527527495 588634 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :bit pattern overlapped automatons
< 1527527613 972437 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :every cell is an n-bit integer (32 maybe?) and then every bit (or group of bits) runs separately on it's own rule set. For example, bit 0 could be Game of Life, bit 1-2 some 4-state automaton and so on (note, not going to actually use GoL, since it is TC). The rulesets runs mostly separately, but will under certain circumstances interact with each other
< 1527527642 472563 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :the goal is for you to have to use these overlap mechanics as well as doing computation locally in each "layer" for the end result to be TC
< 1527527673 264145 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat!
< 1527527684 483492 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't really done much with cell automatons, so I don't think I could actually pull this off though
< 1527527696 111113 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1527527721 34231 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I haven’t too, but maybe I’ll at least have some ideas
< 1527527722 947839 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at least now the idea is out there, for anyone to grab and run with
< 1527527873 690854 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: another language idea is a nethack or Dwarf Fortress like "game world" where you make a map and place actors (which distinct but simple and deterministic AI). This is used for computation.
< 1527527950 708645 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they elephant could always charge in a straight line until it hits a wall or gate (and will continue running again if the gate is opened). While the treasure hunter will always seek out the nearest gold and run from any boulder traps
< 1527527972 345447 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be leavers for actors to pull and ways to link those to gates
< 1527528003 148125 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :again, not yet a fully formed language, but this one I'm more optimistic about
< 1527528019 111507 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also about ideas: I have imagined if it could be possible in a cell automaton to modify the underlying graph (locally) — e. g. add or remove vertices (and corresponding edges)
< 1527528036 712461 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no concrete ideas here, though
< 1527528051 820326 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: just non-flatness or stuff like wormholes?
< 1527528074 64181 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, cell automaton on a hyperbolic geometry?
< 1527528159 714082 :Slereah!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-12-99.w92-131.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-flatness doesn't change the edges of a lattice
< 1527528162 21218 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you make a map and place actors (which distinct but simple and deterministic AI) => oh yes, I have thought about that after seeing Perpetuum Mobile. I even have a friend who played nethack many times, I’m going to suggest this to him
< 1527528166 816264 :Slereah!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-12-99.w92-131.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :only their angle deficit
< 1527528171 416307 :Slereah!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-12-99.w92-131.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :or distances, equivalently
< 1527528171 795895 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, true
< 1527528184 659160 :Slereah!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-12-99.w92-131.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :the edges are the simplicial topology
< 1527528208 881208 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: hey don't steal it ;P (I'm probably going to make my own even if you make one)
< 1527528255 767097 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just non-flatness or stuff like wormholes? => wormholes would be super neat, but again no idea how to pull that off without sacrificing locality
< 1527528258 505142 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: you could imagine cutting and gluing a cell automaton to create wormholes though
< 1527528266 644337 :Slereah!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-12-99.w92-131.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure
< 1527528283 75689 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: it has locality, but the definition of "local" is complicated
< 1527528298 71687 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :the locality must travel through the wormhole
< 1527528305 27410 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, cell automaton on a hyperbolic geometry? => if this wasn’t suggested by anyone yet, yeah, this is yet another deserving idea
< 1527528327 723170 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: as Slereah pointed out, not that interesting with a lattice
< 1527528343 250071 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I mean, we should be able to create a wormhole locally
< 1527528347 299439 :Slereah!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-12-99.w92-131.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I mean, it depends how your automaton works
< 1527528357 955264 :Slereah!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-12-99.w92-131.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the distance between vertices is important to the rules
< 1527528361 278968 :Slereah!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-12-99.w92-131.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it will be different
< 1527528368 984607 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true
< 1527528369 306767 :Slereah!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-12-99.w92-131.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, it's the same as a normal grid
< 1527528403 259528 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't seen an automaton which use distance (as opposed to "neighbor"), but maybe you can make it work
< 1527528479 38036 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :many years ago I implemented GoL in the scripting language of a module-based RPG called "Blades of Avernum". Don't think I have the files around any more. It basically changed the floor tiles to the next generation each time you pulled a lever
< 1527528498 215028 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey don't steal it ;P (I'm probably going to make my own even if you make one) => I was actually about “redirect-stealing” it, but that person isn’t much into esolangs. I have a frend into them too, but he does’t play nethack (nor do I), so probably no luck with stealing here :D
< 1527528522 936269 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has been years since I played nethack
< 1527528534 883921 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :DF I played more recently
< 1527528553 616940 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah! the output of the program should be DF style combat logs
< 1527528598 921071 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: ever played or seen DF?
< 1527528727 638462 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, I want to be able to put multiple things on the same square, so the language definition might be a bit annoying without a specialized editor.
< 1527528740 359318 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I know, why not use an image file, pixels
< 1527528761 150567 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seen people use that for storing the levels in some games
< 1527528795 110381 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you have one colour for walls, and the other two colours for defining metadata
< 1527528808 618569 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the distance between vertices is important to the rules then it will be different => hm I think despite distances aren’t mentioned in common automatons’ rules, they are in some sense present. Any (undirected; weighted or non-weighted—in the latter cases, it is weighted const 1) graph has a natural metric. It will be different for different regular grids
< 1527528820 821377 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1527528846 815439 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: ever played or seen DF? => heard about a bit, only
< 1527528854 56796 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :that or using ASCII for the level (program) layout + a separate listing (perhaps in yaml or json) below to place actors, connect levers and so on
< 1527528876 954329 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: amazing game with a utterly steep learning curve
< 1527528980 631430 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: here is an example of a combat log I found: https://i.imgur.com/DdJBN.jpg by googling. As usual very detailed and probably more gruesome than actually showing the combat would have been
< 1527529133 791914 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I know, why not use an image file, pixels => or a specialized IDE level editor :D a program could consist of several levels
< 1527529157 659780 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it could, but I don't want to develop that
< 1527529166 970115 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of calling procedures, one could enter and exit levels
< 1527529179 693977 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I seem to remember an off-the-shelf open source level editor thing for 2D games
< 1527529204 540948 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that basically what game maker is
< 1527529224 568574 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing game with a utterly steep learning curve => steeper than nethack? because I played the latter two times (and almost instantly died) and wasn’t satisfied
< 1527529234 133960 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah, https://www.mapeditor.org/
< 1527529238 485168 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what I was thinking of
< 1527529251 518404 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: probably on par
< 1527529251 630688 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I seem to remember an off-the-shelf open source level editor thing for 2D games => indeed
< 1527529283 589316 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is that one at least
< 1527529285 672410 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably on par => oh then thank you I’ll abstain :D
< 1527529310 991372 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :DF has a much steeper learning curve than nethack in the sense that you have to learn most of the game's mechanics and strategies for dealing with them right at the start to make any serious headway
< 1527529327 290917 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: but loosing is fun
< 1527529350 837915 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: the thing about DF though is when things go sour, they usually do so in a pretty funny way
< 1527529383 209346 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: a DF like game that is more approachable is Rimworld (costs money on steam)
< 1527529407 109413 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't played it, but watched a few streams on twitch and it looks good
< 1527529459 284529 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527529550 580244 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don’t think I’m going to play roguelikes in near future, but nonetheless thanks :)
< 1527529669 909185 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: DF is not a rouge lite
< 1527529678 213761 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rougelike either
< 1527529684 348984 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :diffrent genre
< 1527529731 91718 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could say they are fortress/colony builders/sims
< 1527530020 500140 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1527530248 688220 :Slereah!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-12-99.w92-131.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could probably make a simple enough particle automaton in curved spacetime
< 1527530254 868721 :Slereah!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-12-99.w92-131.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :By using Regge calculus
< 1527530372 15169 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even a clue what that is
< 1527531035 97230 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it involves ganja?
< 1527531890 905372 :plokmijnuhby!4e95330e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.149.51.14 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527532107 191974 :plokmijnuhby!4e95330e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.149.51.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this working
< 1527532115 813493 :plokmijnuhby!4e95330e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.149.51.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it is
< 1527532147 276385 :plokmijnuhby!4e95330e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.149.51.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I just looked up regge calculus
< 1527532168 270557 :plokmijnuhby!4e95330e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.149.51.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :assume space is 2 dimensional
< 1527532189 187304 :plokmijnuhby!4e95330e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.149.51.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then divide spacetime into tetrahedra
< 1527532229 952710 :plokmijnuhby!4e95330e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.149.51.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your tetrahedra meet at weird angles, you've got some gravity going on
< 1527532247 397118 :plokmijnuhby!4e95330e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.149.51.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that happens, do some maths
< 1527532268 521698 :plokmijnuhby!4e95330e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.149.51.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then poof, you have a vacuum solution
< 1527532277 577027 :plokmijnuhby!4e95330e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.149.51.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think
< 1527532478 630981 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1527532524 595842 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :plokmijnuhby: wait a minute, I'm confused about the causality, are you the alias of someone else in here? Or did you read the logs?
< 1527532617 363217 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :plokmijnuhby: also, how do you pronounce that name?
< 1527532772 74677 :plokmijnuhby!4e95330e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.149.51.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read the logs and thought I'd add my two cents
< 1527532791 888458 :plokmijnuhby!4e95330e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.149.51.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :plock-midge-noo-bee
< 1527532851 531116 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, I don't quite get the d in midge from that spelling, but the rest seems sensible enough
< 1527532881 274276 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem (not a real one, but considering this context) of General Relativity is that it’s in general hard/impossible to calculate spatial section by spatial section. You can test if the complete space-time solution is correct or not, but as to construct it slice by slice…
< 1527532937 942151 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome plokmijnuhby
< 1527532939 157725 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :plokmijnuhby: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
< 1527532981 359896 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this isn’t relevant if the region in question is “sufficiently newtonian”, as if taking a star system or a galaxy, but if one wants to consider wormholes, it suddenly is much more complicated
< 1527532987 104240 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay I am inventing some new mechanics for the RPG language finally
< 1527533019 335689 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I invented a separate esolang based solely on water flow I think, could almost be fleshed out into a separate language
< 1527533036 491446 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :plokmijnuhby: please forgive me but what language it is?
< 1527533055 641261 :plokmijnuhby!4e95330e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.149.51.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have a qwerty keyboard?
< 1527533062 335498 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :plokmijnuhby: I'm not 100% convinced by your brainfuck in Perpetuum Mobile by the way, I understand you are talking about compiling BF to PM rather than interpreting BF in PM, right?
< 1527533065 720191 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: wow you are productive :D
< 1527533097 154671 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: well, I needed water for the elephants to walk to and drink from, and then I started adding sluice gates and riverbeds
< 1527533109 423998 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have a qwerty keyboard?> got it
< 1527533119 250656 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a programming language idea which might be eso or might not, I'm not sure yet.
< 1527533141 355189 :plokmijnuhby!4e95330e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.149.51.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it?
< 1527533149 933536 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's something between C++ and a macro assembler and a lisp dialect. Or something.
< 1527533154 306093 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to figure out the details still.
< 1527533232 898413 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: you could make a simplified wormhole thingy, like if too many cells of a certain colour accumulates in a compact enough area, you create a square wormhole connected to some other part of the world with some other colour white hole
< 1527533235 799154 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that
< 1527533257 994933 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't have to behave like real general relativity to make an interesting language concept
< 1527533269 439936 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: sounds interesting
< 1527533271 676714 :olsner!~salparot@c83-253-165-33.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hi Vorpal
< 1527533287 945255 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Perpetuum_Mobile made this esolang
< 1527533392 93535 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh also is there an eso solely about sets? Some time ago I had one more or less completely described, it operated on hereditary finite sets and had a C-like syntax; its main feature, I think, was `select` statement; `select x in s` took an element of s and assigned it to x, then x was removed from s; it was an error if s = ∅ before all that. Now I see this construct should have been a form of pattern matching: `switch s case 0 blah blah case {x} ∪ s
< 1527533392 171149 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :' bluh bluh`
< 1527533422 248923 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I needed water for the elephants to walk to and drink from, and then I started adding sluice gates and riverbeds => (rofl) :D
< 1527533712 872837 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: sneak preview: https://gist.github.com/VorpalBlade/131d4062c60952eecfb5368b10a4169a
< 1527533720 299710 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the sort of thing I'm going for
< 1527533726 556727 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what else to put in it yet
< 1527533732 537887 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :some things I know though
< 1527533817 87260 :plokmijnuhby!4e95330e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.149.51.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something to attack the elephant (a lion?)
< 1527533857 589666 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :plokmijnuhby: yes, good idea, and there should be treasure hunters as well as rolling boulder traps
< 1527533866 811902 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :will probably have goblins and such too
< 1527533946 760692 :plokmijnuhby!4e95330e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.149.51.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something needs to generate treasure somehow
< 1527533987 540533 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, lepruchan with leaking gold bag
< 1527534005 829385 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :leprechaun is apparently how that is spelled
< 1527534026 377016 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :could also have static gold, which should actually be what ¤ is used for (since that is the generic currency symbol)
< 1527534035 132605 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :sluice gate will have to be something else
< 1527534272 466584 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:472:48c8:2f48:a603:b176 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1527534413 710461 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:472:2159:9db2:3953:2c87 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527534680 634271 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: thank you! Will look in detail tomorrow, now I’m off to sleep
< 1527534686 758690 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boulder traps yes yes yes
< 1527534690 574460 :plokmijnuhby!4e95330e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.149.51.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\HELP
< 1527534696 767855 :plokmijnuhby!4e95330e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.149.51.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1527534726 456497 :plokmijnuhby!4e95330e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.149.51.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure it told me there was a help command
< 1527534738 447990 :plokmijnuhby!4e95330e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.149.51.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't find it
< 1527534743 405264 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: obviously a reference
< 1527534746 919932 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1527534750 404163 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :^help
< 1527534750 570485 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ ; ^def   ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
< 1527534758 29470 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help
< 1527534758 63038 :zemhill__!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I do !zjoust; see http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for more information.
< 1527534761 333747 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1527534764 840453 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help
< 1527534764 958736 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands
< 1527534774 711735 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :plokmijnuhby: pick your poison
< 1527534779 236536 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: which one do you prefer?
< 1527534779 473997 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: uh sometimes they can be the more convenient because my kids like i said i
< 1527534782 271614 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what reference? Is it more specific than boulder traps in games?
< 1527534790 856334 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: Indiana Jones duh
< 1527534939 475451 :plokmijnuhby!4e95330e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.149.51.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@list
< 1527534939 627187 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :What module?  Try @listmodules for some ideas.
< 1527534951 574405 :plokmijnuhby!4e95330e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.149.51.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@listmodules
< 1527534951 682944 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :activity base bf check compose dice dict djinn dummy elite eval filter free fresh haddock help hoogle instances irc karma localtime metar more oeis offlineRC pl pointful poll pretty quote search
< 1527534951 682992 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :slap source spell system tell ticker todo topic type undo unlambda unmtl version where
< 1527534970 47318 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :plokmijnuhby: before you continue... lambdabot reacts to private messages.
< 1527534972 130502 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it have occurred to me just now I have played Wanderer on android (so that port of it was named Wandroid); I was able to finish level 1 but it was tricky, partly because of controls (sweeping was somewhat faulty, the character ofter walked in the wrong direction)
< 1527535035 294600 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :not familiar with that game
< 1527535146 838293 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, you’re walking in 2D and there are various things moving deterministically, but you can move out of sync with them (it seems). I didn’t seen the original
< 1527535149 144520 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1527535168 964606 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I added some more ideas
< 1527535170 978352 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was boulders, specifically
< 1527535188 399547 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in large quantities
< 1527535203 290592 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they insta-kill :(
< 1527535217 266583 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1527535248 771637 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also there wasn’t save for that second level I opened, so I deleted the app in a virtual rage
< 1527535265 703370 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tizrsuzhnugvqxkk QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1527535334 132489 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok now I’m off to sleep
< 1527535915 97594 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1527536038 980334 :Elronnd!elronnd@slashem.me NICK :Elronnd\srn
< 1527537323 723330 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm also going to sleep
< 1527537876 548045 :plokmijnuhby!4e95330e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.149.51.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what time zone are you in
< 1527537898 493393 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :CEST currently
< 1527537905 73073 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah I need to sleep now
< 1527537907 968282 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye
< 1527537951 528123 :plokmijnuhby!4e95330e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.149.51.14 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're on the new york server?
< 1527538240 307108 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :chat.freenode.net rotation, I'd guess
< 1527538249 900091 :plokmijnuhby!4e95330e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.149.51.14 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1527538805 232395 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bqcaljwoszczvqlj JOIN :#esoteric
> 1527539247 945913 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55417&oldid=55384 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (+13) 10
> 1527539378 190422 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:DatCodingGuy14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55418&oldid=49174 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (+170) 10/* Your Github page says you're 19 */ new section
< 1527539851 611467 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... why does that edit annoy me.
< 1527542548 921370 :wob_jonas!b03f1819@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.25 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527542584 327801 :wob_jonas!b03f1819@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: thank you for pointing me at scribus (software). it does seem like it will probably be able to do what I need.
< 1527542692 455306 :wob_jonas!b03f1819@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.25 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1527542710 471207 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:ae29:3aff:fee8:b414 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
< 1527545037 412897 :user24!~void@p2003008869014B0089AEBC7B63AB7755.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527545194 51396 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1527545678 324840 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527545723 998403 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1527546609 135002 :alexandre!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527546643 81691 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527547233 439529 :alexandre!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: nostril.
< 1527547233 614065 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :alexandre: ( ( laughter uh-huh)) amazing you know it's just it's it's hard because i mean
< 1527547239 954751 :alexandre!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net NICK :boily
< 1527547257 390941 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: renostril.
< 1527547257 619808 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: while they're playing games but i'm sure with these things it's a great feeling to feel like i'm the only nut in the family i don't want
< 1527547294 712867 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527547335 817560 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: NORSE CHICKEN
< 1527547557 688915 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1527548112 507066 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1527548437 635785 :user24!~void@p2003008869014B0089AEBC7B63AB7755.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1527549625 319241 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527549891 275751 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1527550211 279319 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527550461 355822 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1527552291 579682 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bqcaljwoszczvqlj QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1527552912 27771 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527552921 479970 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527553173 886297 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1527554131 406471 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Quit: brb
< 1527554755 765229 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527554783 983934 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Client Quit
< 1527554804 902559 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ecwhwfbatumwogel JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527554835 413922 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527554934 698676 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1527556123 465717 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1527556350 449151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Community portal14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55419&oldid=54155 5* 03LyricLy 5* (+2) 10
< 1527556417 352761 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1527557451 740307 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? nostril
< 1527557452 810795 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nostril? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1527557649 963431 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Nostril is a common Québécois greeting.
< 1527557652 242721 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'nostril': Nostril is a common Québécois greeting.
< 1527558333 2692 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Quit: brb
< 1527558372 307121 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527559625 598271 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1527560445 723762 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527560723 670217 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1527561706 568866 :copumpkin!copumpkinm@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1527561706 731694 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1527561706 948796 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1527561706 948855 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1527561711 675668 :ProofTechnique[m!prooftechn@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-qqintggyxsawfmtp QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1527561728 269800 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527561728 269853 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527561728 303266 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527561739 71436 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded
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< 1527561837 820233 :diginet!~diginet@107.170.146.29 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1527561850 114267 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1527561856 172705 :diginet!~diginet@107.170.146.29 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1527561890 792940 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf QUIT :*.net *.split
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< 1527561896 403468 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1527561912 811712 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527561912 811772 :trout!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527561912 811788 :aloril_!~aloril@80.246.146.6 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527561912 845143 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527561912 845201 :vertrex!~vertrex@unaffiliated/vertrex JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527561912 845264 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527561917 270256 :Naergon!~Naergon@188.29.165.19.threembb.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527561917 270317 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-002-203-000-049.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527561917 347179 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527561917 347245 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527561917 347261 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@unaffiliated/bowserinator JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527561917 347299 :mniip!mniip@freenode/staff/mniip JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527561917 347333 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527561991 321154 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527562010 258513 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-bhypzmfahowfwsyq QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1527562010 293789 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1527562010 425092 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1527562010 458497 :Storkman!~Storkman@storkman.xyz QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1527562010 537718 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1527562010 599050 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-002-203-000-049.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1527562010 693420 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1527562010 724592 :Guest49568!dlopen@71.19.155.102 QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1527562014 96438 :GeekDude!~G33kDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1527562014 180402 :jix!~jix@jix.omnomnom.pizza QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1527562014 620692 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1527562014 757835 :Guest87858!~redacted@unaffiliated/digitalcold QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1527562043 23681 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-bhypzmfahowfwsyq JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527562043 23727 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527562043 57162 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527562043 57211 :Storkman!~Storkman@storkman.xyz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527562043 57252 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527562043 57314 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-002-203-000-049.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527562043 57354 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527562043 57389 :Guest49568!dlopen@71.19.155.102 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527562082 351082 :GeekDude!~G33kDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527562082 351318 :jix!~jix@jix.omnomnom.pizza JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527562082 351335 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527562082 351349 :Guest87858!~redacted@unaffiliated/digitalcold JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527562203 76429 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1527562203 258612 :rodgort!~rodgort@68.ip-149-56-14.net QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1527562203 427384 :Hoolootwo!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1527562203 693979 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1527562207 918233 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1527562208 87535 :puckipedia!~puck@puckipedia.com QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1527562211 328723 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1527562229 876355 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527562229 909844 :rodgort!~rodgort@68.ip-149-56-14.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527562229 909892 :Hoolootwo!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527562229 909933 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527562244 230423 :puckipedia!~puck@puckipedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527562261 372723 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527562265 676141 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527563591 479715 :ProofTechnique[m!prooftechn@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-tgbndvbdryzfmpej JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527563658 44189 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527563942 23806 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1527564394 388181 :yaewa!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527564397 169836 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1527564410 187088 :yaewa!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1527564510 873332 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527564670 140076 :copumpkin!copumpkinm@haskell/developer/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527565004 252591 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527565575 949814 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGIRL, dying...
< 1527566669 256812 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1527567139 325413 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1527568197 809170 :Elronnd\srn!elronnd@slashem.me NICK :Elronnd
< 1527570092 95822 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527570355 80970 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
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< 1527571854 341577 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527572931 379146 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527573185 337413 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1527573581 419550 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527573871 368127 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1527575685 890109 :chal_!49fcd62f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.252.214.47 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527576065 402404 :Slereah!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-12-99.w92-131.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1527576206 20841 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1527576336 178815 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07The Insane Esolang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55420&oldid=55330 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (+27) 10
< 1527576460 908397 :Guest6451!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-18-38.w2-5.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527576502 8483 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
> 1527576887 540064 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Roi14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55421 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (+1571) 10Just created this language on unoffical esolang discord, Here's my formatted draft.
> 1527576923 407776 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Roi14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55422&oldid=55421 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (+10) 10Already noticed a little error, which I think is also in Schmuu.
> 1527576964 759091 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Schmuu14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55423&oldid=55308 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (+18) 10Fixed user links.
> 1527577109 810677 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Roi14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55424&oldid=55422 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (+156) 10Added a bit of font formatting to the characters.
< 1527577344 896541 :chal_!49fcd62f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.252.214.47 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
> 1527577684 830873 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Roi14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55425&oldid=55424 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (+98) 10Added categories
> 1527577726 218376 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Roi14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55426&oldid=55425 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (+0) 10Categories are case-sensitive, of course they are.
< 1527577842 366043 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
> 1527578227 280705 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Roi14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55427&oldid=55426 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (+278) 10Added statement for escape sequences since those are graphically useful.
> 1527578253 145106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Roi14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55428&oldid=55427 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (-1) 10Removed a empty line
> 1527578295 980707 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Roi14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55429&oldid=55428 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (+1) 10Sorry for the spam irc channel, Added a new line.
< 1527578490 934353 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527578527 946091 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can someone tell me if ROI is a original-somewhat or if a language just like it exists?
< 1527578539 353094 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's my worst "fear".
< 1527578674 842363 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527579794 727441 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I rename a page?
< 1527579804 211968 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :found it.
< 1527579814 971094 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvm.
> 1527579852 498596 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Galaxtone 5*  10moved [[02Roi10]] to [[Roie]]: Renaming language to Roie as I'm removing the special case for exitting and turning it into it's own instruction.
< 1527579864 163518 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like it worked.
> 1527579906 940589 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Roie14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55432&oldid=55430 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (-58) 10Added said exit instruction which is the reason for the rename.
> 1527579943 100582 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Roie14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55433&oldid=55432 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (+1) 10Now says Roie on the page aswell.
< 1527580336 692408 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527580587 710593 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
> 1527580641 35094 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Saka 5*  10New user account
> 1527581291 628361 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55434&oldid=55416 5* 03Saka 5* (+236) 10/* Introductions */
< 1527586492 447678 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ecwhwfbatumwogel QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
> 1527586810 322989 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Saka14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55435 5* 03Saka 5* (+5) 10Created page with "hi"
> 1527587170 714829 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Seeker14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55436 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (+3933) 10Helped someone on unoffical discord who just created a esolang account with formatting their text document into wiki code.
< 1527587199 841144 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :2018, Unimplemented, High-level
< 1527587202 359863 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait... no loops?
< 1527587205 535164 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh nvm
< 1527587223 353592 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :2018, Unimplemented, High-level, Turing-Complete
> 1527587412 86895 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Seeker14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55437&oldid=55436 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (+99) 10Added categories
> 1527587600 865092 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Seeker14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55438&oldid=55437 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (+47) 10:P
< 1527587661 536356 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com QUIT :Quit: IceChat - Keeping PC's cool since 2000
> 1527588110 870184 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Seeker14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55439&oldid=55438 5* 03Saka 5* (+109) 10Corrections + example
< 1527588907 436012 :yaewa!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527588971 817117 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1527591851 722534 :choochter!choochter@nat/ibm/x-bewquklotngnzadc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527592052 412340 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527594235 376753 :user24!~void@p20030088690161006D9CB3B1B3CB3292.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527594235 707216 :user24!~void@p20030088690161006D9CB3B1B3CB3292.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1527594865 380851 :Hoolootwo!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1527595012 724162 :Hoolootwo!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue JOIN :#esoteric
> 1527597239 821387 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Seeker14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55440&oldid=55439 5* 03Saka 5* (+211) 10Output details
> 1527597645 169551 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Seeker14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55441&oldid=55440 5* 03Saka 5* (+340) 10/* Syntax */
> 1527598929 751477 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Seeker14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55442&oldid=55441 5* 03Saka 5* (+493) 10/* Examples */
> 1527599140 417512 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55443&oldid=54291 5* 03Saka 5* (+56) 10added for seeker
> 1527599442 781749 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55444&oldid=55317 5* 03Saka 5* (+147) 10seeker
> 1527599473 842215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Seeker14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55445&oldid=55442 5* 03Saka 5* (-2) 10oops
< 1527599826 180913 :trout!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: /dev/null is full
< 1527600070 991479 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
> 1527600253 945897 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Seeker14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55446&oldid=55445 5* 03Saka 5* (-8) 10teensy tiny typo and correction
< 1527600387 95818 :trout!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527600500 816555 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1527601471 233731 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-002-203-000-049.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Quit: Terminated
< 1527601515 20380 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-002-203-000-049.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Quit: thunderstorm
< 1527602644 185420 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pvedxcvruuzthypk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527602992 149092 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? teapot
< 1527602993 129267 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :teapot? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1527603471 226185 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :418
< 1527606636 24360 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-002-203-000-049.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527607816 955851 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1527607847 751929 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527608433 7326 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1527608461 292483 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527615331 47756 :yaewa!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving...
< 1527615373 443947 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527615604 759958 :wob_jonas!b03f18ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.234 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527615630 899650 :wob_jonas!b03f18ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just found that a certain software used at my new job allows passwords of at most 24 characters length.
< 1527615652 8302 :wob_jonas!b03f18ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate these low bounds for password length
< 1527616060 946450 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :24 is enough man. as long as you are using basically random strings from the full ascii set
< 1527616102 190520 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527616157 426954 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats almost 3*10^47 combinations
< 1527616194 396149 :wob_jonas!b03f18ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: you can't use the full ascii printable set, because on many keyboards, the space bar clicks noticably differently from other keys
< 1527616262 665092 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1527616322 127961 :wob_jonas!b03f18ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more importantly, it's not practical to use random strings. it's often better to use easier to remember but longer strings.
< 1527616860 467578 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didnt say random
< 1527616876 857486 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :im thinking of the schneier method
< 1527616923 61949 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :although in practice, pseudorandom can work if you use other tools
< 1527616964 743379 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you worry about key sounds no password will do
< 1527616992 415218 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :as there are tools to reverse engineer passwords from sounds
< 1527617008 632176 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hide a few microphones nearby and...
< 1527617019 677398 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :90% accuracy of key prediction
< 1527617063 807226 :wob_jonas!b03f18ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: if you choose passwords systemagically like that, then they no longer have anything near the full 157 bits of entropy of a random ascii printable string of 24 bytes
< 1527617143 59951 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :do tools exist that can exploit that difference?
< 1527617169 577417 :wob_jonas!b03f18ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not too hard to make one, even if you just guess the frequency of individual characters
< 1527617189 72432 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not sure you can, though
< 1527617196 152704 :wob_jonas!b03f18ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you just try strings with mostly letters, that already reduces the entropy a lot
< 1527617275 647995 :wob_jonas!b03f18ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you try common letters first, and less of the FJKQVXYZ stuff, even better
< 1527617285 33486 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :if youre correctly applying the schneier method, youll have other symbols dispersed in. besides, even just letters and numbers give you 10^43 possibilities
< 1527617310 356664 :wob_jonas!b03f18ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: yes, some symbols. but still mostly letters.
< 1527617323 716403 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what youd expect
< 1527617336 395786 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the printable characters are mostly letters after all
< 1527617381 370615 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you considered trying my tool
< 1527617701 647763 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a higher bound (if any) on password length is nonetheless a good idea, too
< 1527617716 483974 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use something like xkcd password method :)
< 1527617717 32731 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/quintopia/pwgen
< 1527617729 36388 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it helps sure
< 1527617761 33683 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :my only point was that if you have memory constraints, you can still be secure
< 1527617771 642049 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the only issues are practical
< 1527617776 386272 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :human minds are pretty bounded themselves, any artifical bound is even worse
< 1527617785 586056 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my only point was that if you have memory constraints, you can still be secure> ah, of course
< 1527617819 850049 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that level of consideration is too far from practice(
< 1527618124 33434 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad its something we still have to deal with
< 1527618139 103403 :wob_jonas!b03f18ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no memory constraint here. this isn't some tiny one-chip embedded device. it's a big program running on a computer where it needs lots of hard disk and RAM and cpu.
< 1527618191 366184 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: yeah
< 1527618242 361550 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there is still in many places an issue with non-ASCII characters in passwords :(
< 1527618242 697689 :wob_jonas!b03f18ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course the only issues are practical. the whole point of using this particular software is practical only, because in theory you'd use some alternate universe perfect software that you have custom made with a team of twenty people in two years just for your needs and has the password length bound you desire.
< 1527618295 77467 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : I just found that a certain software used at my new job allows passwords of at most 24 characters length. <-- weird, it can't be storage, since it will hopefully be hashed anyway
< 1527618305 412134 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :so storage will be constant
< 1527618317 460702 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a habit to stick to [A-Za-z0-9] but it is bad, not any of my passwords is over 30 chars long
< 1527618414 521706 :wob_jonas!b03f18ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: to [A-Za-z0-9]? not to [A-Xa-x1-9,.%] which is what you use in Hungary because you might not be able to switch keyboard layout when typing passwords and all other characters (except space) are in a different space between the hungarian qwertz and the US keyboard layout?
< 1527618458 882353 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but erm I’m not in Hungary
< 1527618482 610827 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1527618486 261770 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(maybe I will in the future, who knows)
< 1527618547 472499 :wob_jonas!b03f18ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although technically you could also use the > sign if you type it as altgr-shift-dot, because shift-dot enters it on a US keyboard and altgr-dot on the more recent versions of the hungarian qwertz)
< 1527618635 868393 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: how many users are there?
< 1527618645 718189 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :or accounts rather
< 1527618654 36128 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once used an emoji in my password
< 1527618665 10855 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i regretted it
< 1527618672 879208 :wob_jonas!b03f18ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: dunno, they're mostly local users that are valid on only a few machines
< 1527618682 627829 :wob_jonas!b03f18ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so probably at most a few dozen
< 1527618699 810507 :wob_jonas!b03f18ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: a regret emoji?
< 1527618715 955524 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was ice cream or something
< 1527618726 297366 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527618746 675358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527618784 158471 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages?
< 1527618784 292528 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
< 1527618788 58532 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages
< 1527618791 367429 :wob_jonas!b03f18ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais
< 1527618796 833468 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hi
< 1527618804 38749 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Vorpal
< 1527618821 647946 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently I mostly use rg
< 1527618828 410297 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :rg?
< 1527618831 868501 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although ag is easier to type so I sometimes use that one out of habit, it's pretty good too
< 1527618835 101355 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1527618836 739341 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rg = ripgrep
< 1527618839 212026 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1527618841 54040 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep
< 1527618860 835754 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically the product of someone who saw the better-grep wars going on and thought "I can do better than all of that" and happened to be a Rust fan
< 1527618881 457829 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1527618907 481384 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use sed as a better grep
< 1527618928 127219 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well a more featureful grep
< 1527618930 874609 :wob_jonas!b03f18ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, at this job I'm working on windows machines again, which immediately reminded me why I so hate windows as a development platform
< 1527618975 664322 :wob_jonas!b03f18ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: interesting.
< 1527618987 243498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: that's sort of generalising grep in a different dimension
< 1527619008 673577 :wob_jonas!b03f18ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I generally use perl instead of sed if I need any sort of advanced text processing, and use sed only for really basic stuff
< 1527619021 666917 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about awk?
< 1527619031 961920 :wob_jonas!b03f18ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, I forgot how awk works
< 1527619047 383088 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know perl at all, so I use awk, grep, sed and such
< 1527619054 550552 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or for complicated stuff, python
< 1527619077 773055 :wob_jonas!b03f18ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does python work well for text processing?
< 1527619124 782120 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: it works "okay", and if you need to do something more advanced with the text, that would benefit from the advanced features and packages, then it is good
< 1527619137 59532 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no it is not the best alternative for pure text processing
< 1527619168 640367 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I often find that I also need to pull some data from a json file as well or suchy
< 1527619170 870954 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :such*
< 1527619207 839216 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :or would benefit from being able to use better data structures than what perl has
< 1527619209 467272 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1527619211 649359 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash has*
< 1527619213 716735 :wob_jonas!b03f18ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have used a json parser from perl to pull data from a json file
< 1527619215 678314 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl probably have them
< 1527619222 393023 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since I never learned perl, eh
< 1527619246 87326 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not hard to learn enough Perl to write in it, the hard part is learning enough to read other peoples' programs :-D
< 1527619246 425707 :wob_jonas!b03f18ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm more interested in when you have free text, where a pre-built json parser or xml parser or html parser doesn't help
< 1527619261 36437 :wob_jonas!b03f18ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the longer text parts inside a json or xml or html file, alternately
< 1527619279 854615 :wob_jonas!b03f18ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, I'm just interested in how people use python now
< 1527619293 307206 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python is a really bad language for oneliners
< 1527619296 605744 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do it, it's just painful
< 1527619327 46959 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -MJSON -e1
< 1527619327 551584 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't locate JSON.pm in @INC (you may need to install the JSON module) (@INC contains: /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl/5.24.1 /usr/local/share/perl/5.24.1 /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl5/5.24 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl/5.24 /usr/share/perl/5.24 /usr/local/lib/site_perl /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl-base .). \ BEGIN failed--compilation aborted.
< 1527619341 10705 :wob_jonas!b03f18ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, that's one problem I'd like to ask about. how do you write one-liners when python usually wants line breaks and indents? do you use some sort of preprocessor that converts some other notation to python lineabreaks and indents?
< 1527619342 977374 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I had a suspicion it might not be installed on HackEgo (Perl's JSON library, that is)
< 1527619365 867295 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: there are two methods, one is the combination of exec and \n for newlines
< 1527619370 206981 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I mainly use python as a general purpose language for anything where the execution speed isn't critical
< 1527619378 398044 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other is to use a lot of nested lambdas so that you don't need to use any control structures that require a newline
< 1527619400 544375 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Python is a really bad language for oneliners <-- agreed, that is where you have the classical unix utilities
< 1527619421 986154 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I was talking about scripts you can use in your one liners
< 1527619440 632433 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo one two three four | sed -e 'y/ /-/'
< 1527619441 274701 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :one-two-three-four
< 1527619444 615112 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :like pulling data out of a complicated system and making it usable. Or just a library of functions to use from IPython
< 1527619446 188528 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo one two three four | perl -pe 'y/ /-/'
< 1527619446 729787 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :one-two-three-four
< 1527619453 152483 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes there's no difference between perl and sed
< 1527619491 942429 :tromp_!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527619536 513384 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl Mbigrat -E 'say 355/113'
< 1527619537 29741 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't open perl script "Mbigrat -E 'say 355/113'": No such file or directory
< 1527619541 722397 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``perl -Mbigrat -E 'say 355/113'
< 1527619543 591578 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `perl: not found
< 1527619547 734037 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` perl -Mbigrat -E 'say 355/113'
< 1527619548 567107 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :355/113
< 1527619606 48572 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :bigrat?
< 1527619606 735078 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1527619625 643356 :grumblr!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527619626 102990 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :rationals?
< 1527619626 835288 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :changes arithmetic to use bignum rationals
< 1527619629 276932 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1527619640 767910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's nice if you want to quickly do exact calculations
< 1527619651 446238 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` perl -Mbigrat -E 'say 355/113 - 22/7'
< 1527619652 278140 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-1/791
< 1527619669 79899 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway I had to look at some perl scripts at a few points, I don't like what I see. Like functions use $1 and so on for parameters instead of proper prototypes with parameter lists?
< 1527619681 183570 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language appears to be messy to me
< 1527619689 441307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, $1 is a regex match, like \1 in sed
< 1527619699 833113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl functions don't actually have parameter lists at all
< 1527619709 792336 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :was some time ago, but I definitely remember there being no parameter lists indeed
< 1527619720 845942 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :and still there were parameters somehow
< 1527619764 782271 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :which in my opinion makes the code less clear, you can't just look at the definition of a function and figure out approximately what parameter is what
< 1527619798 620370 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fairly common to start a function by unpacking parameters into variables
< 1527619836 181597 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` perl -E 'sub add {my $first = shift; my $second = shift; $first + $second} say add(1,2)'
< 1527619836 811687 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :3
< 1527619845 375494 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is still less clear, and it will be much harder for an IDE to provide useful errors as you type a call to that function
< 1527619862 621094 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :with modern python 3 and type annotations, an IDE like PyCharm can provide really good feedback
< 1527619865 442873 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IDEs tend not to handle Perl all that well
< 1527619870 824871 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost as good as a statically typed language
< 1527619878 340281 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax-highlighting it is not only Turing-complete, but can potentially require things like network interaction
< 1527619920 854143 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you then agree these are faults with the language and that perhaps that it would be better off not having those features in that form?
< 1527619959 704654 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Perl is designed to be insanely flexible
< 1527619974 802990 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, but that compromises other qualities
< 1527619976 848257 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with languages you have a continuum between being easy to analyse and allowing programs to do weird things
< 1527619979 542428 :wob_jonas!b03f18ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.234 QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1527619979 706338 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1527619980 204680 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1527619998 752934 :grumblr!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble NICK :grumble
< 1527620001 596414 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Perl you can do things like replacing the main loop of the interpreter at runtime
< 1527620010 418992 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527620045 605683 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems like a thing that you actually shouldn't be able to do. I can't imagine a problem that couldn't be solved in a cleaner way
< 1527620085 958964 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :also why does it even have a main loop outside of REPL mode?
< 1527620119 787800 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't it just execute the code (probably previously compiled to byte code) as it is, without ever returning until the main thread exits?
< 1527620126 157478 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: perl isn't a runtime-compiled language
< 1527620175 279912 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not
< 1527620189 763515 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you can change the syntax of the language during a program
< 1527620190 81319 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I thought modern Perl 6 compiled to Parrot or something like that?
< 1527620198 236288 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1527620211 758457 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: perl 6 is an entirely separate and incompativble language
< 1527620221 188638 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is not like python 2 vs 3?
< 1527620229 312575 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :incompatible but convertible?
< 1527620229 641981 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :much more so than python 3
< 1527620236 811051 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1527620240 945492 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really even convertible
< 1527620278 750479 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since perl 6 never caught on, when people refer to perl they almost always mean perl 5
< 1527620289 27523 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :well presumably perl 5 will some day stop being supported (just like python 2 in 2020) and perl 6 take over? I assume they don't plan to run both parallel in perpetuity?
< 1527620344 602749 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Perl" is a family of languages, "Perl 6" is part of the family, but it is a separate language which has its own development team. Its existence has no significant impact on the continuing development of "Perl 5". <-- website says
< 1527620355 572888 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, okay
< 1527620459 534740 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1527620472 765543 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527620490 339257 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Perl 6 is a new language by the designer of Perl, which was called "Perl" for some reason and confused everyone
< 1527620511 20659 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does have a few similarities to Perl 5 but it really isn't a new version of the same language, but a new different language
< 1527620523 219479 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl 5 and 4 are a lot more similar (Perl 4 is basically Perl 5 with fewer features)
< 1527620544 739078 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. perl 6 is about as similar to perl as php is
< 1527620550 704654 :wob_jonas!b03f18ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.234 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527620584 199633 :wob_jonas!b03f18ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not that it matters here, but hackeso has a different set of programs installed than hackego
< 1527620701 363043 :wob_jonas!b03f18ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other part I'd like to know about is how usable python is for handling text in an unknown ascii-based byte encoding, eg. can you match byte-oriented regexes or parse numbers from byte strings or format numbers into and the like?
< 1527620702 497644 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: by the way, did you look at that language I made this weekend? I'm not sure about that TC conclusion (I didn't write it).
< 1527620710 451834 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I would be interested in your take on it too
< 1527620716 217165 :wob_jonas!b03f18ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rust stdlib is also currently somewhat bad in that respect
< 1527620756 74534 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I tried to read it quickly but couldn't easily parse the page
< 1527620764 156423 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay
< 1527620771 5678 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a highly complicated language
< 1527620794 437586 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's too many parts which interconnect which makes it hard to get much of an idea about how the language works
< 1527620801 277411 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe there's some other order in which things could be presented to make that work
< 1527620887 151242 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : there's too many parts which interconnect which makes it hard to get much of an idea about how the language works <-- that was the goal!
< 1527620895 763068 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of interacting mechanics
< 1527620901 938358 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :the more the better
< 1527620921 871760 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't think there is any mechanic that doesn't interact with any other
< 1527620930 881464 :wob_jonas!b03f18ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um
< 1527620945 860356 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least that is the goal, probably not perfectly interacting of course
< 1527620975 218298 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example particles only get stopped by the wires, (unless you use the high energy extension)
< 1527620991 499693 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, maybe the description could be rearranged
< 1527621099 812716 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't know what order to present it in though
< 1527621362 449242 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably just implement it sometime during this year instead
< 1527621728 157693 :wob_jonas!b03f18ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :At my new job I'm again working on windows machines. This reminded me immediately of why I so hate windows as a developer platform (as in, it's especially bad if you to write programs that run on windows machines), even though it seems this won't be limiting what I'm doing at this job in particular.
< 1527624553 797032 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527628692 149248 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, polyglot has 200 languages
< 1527628705 617829 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this might be a good time for someone with more spare time than me to write an article about it, going over each language and how it works
< 1527628722 610159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps ordered by popularity of the language so that people see familiar languages first and obscure ones near the end
< 1527628913 100488 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, has stasoid just posted five answers in a row?
< 1527628951 697936 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case I guess Chance technically wins with #194 (the second-newest answer at the time there were no rule-abiding answers for 14 days)
< 1527629019 872520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, that's been acknowledged in the comments on #195
< 1527629061 897229 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dec 6 2016 to April 26 2018 was a good run
< 1527629257 260534 :wob_jonas!b03f18ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice
< 1527629377 210664 :wob_jonas!b03f18ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, two more abstruse goose strips. let me see if they've been listed.
< 1527629424 231324 :wob_jonas!b03f18ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`aglist 596,597
< 1527629424 921322 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :aglist 596,597: b_jonas shachaf
< 1527629448 300373 :wob_jonas!b03f18ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :abstruse goose has definitely turned active after several years of total silence
< 1527629455 323080 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think lists are required for regularly-updating things.
< 1527629498 607787 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i,i An elephant is not required, / If I can use the media to be admired
< 1527629498 906564 :wob_jonas!b03f18ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'll list it for a few more weeks, but if it does keep updating, then I will stop or at least batch the listings heavily until it gets rare again
< 1527629760 117809 :friendlyGoat!~Jonah@50-50-141-33.snpr.wi.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1527635095 36584 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: QUINTHELLOPIA. new rig.
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< 1527637550 362907 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION boilys boily 

< 1527637583 557856 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION stares at moony Ō_Ō jiiiiiiiiiii~~~~~~~

< 1527637600 499147 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION boilyifies boily 

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< 1527640682 499602 :copumpkin!copumpkinm@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 269 seconds
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< 1527643389 908466 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: OPAL CHICKEN
< 1527644735 95519 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a language where, you can write "{ X; ... }" and have it turn into "{ Y; ...; Z; }", where Z is some end code for Y?
< 1527644761 463038 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This isn't quite like e.g. C++ destructors because the code wouldn't be executed at early exit.
< 1527644860 52086 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hmm, weird, several languages have something like that but it's normally specifically to make the early-exit case work
< 1527644881 446391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you want to exclude it, it might be hard to find a language which supports that exclusion
< 1527644893 723372 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :D has a range of operators like that but I'm not sure if any have the exact semantics you want
< 1527644917 303006 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some languages flexible enough to do just about anything, e.g. Perl would let you dynamically change the parser so that it slipped in a Z before the }
< 1527644926 199926 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think that's what you're looking for either
< 1527645025 197513 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I might want something that supports different behavior for early and non-early exit.
< 1527645093 648923 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess this is the point where I ask what you're trying to do in more general terms :-D
< 1527645095 167847 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But really the early-exit case is well explored, so I'm wondering whether anything handles this behavior.
< 1527645182 629738 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what the best way to describe it is.
< 1527645220 15203 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reminded of the way you can put an "else" on a loop in Python
< 1527645225 967202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this isn't the same at all but it seems similar in a way
< 1527645232 346211 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I was thinking about that.
< 1527645283 971636 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could probably do something with the condition of a for-loop
< 1527645303 475346 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, maybe. But I also want to be able to goto Z or something.
< 1527645303 947551 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you had a do-for loop and made it evaluate to false, it'd have the exact semantics you wanted
< 1527645318 180345 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(surely there's got to be a language with a do-for loop?)
< 1527645333 978952 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So one thing I was thinking about was how in a lot of languages, say Ruby, you write things like "open(filename) {|f| ... }"
< 1527645350 296486 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where "open" takes a function argument and takes care of the cleanup and so on.
< 1527645351 199431 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought https://esolangs.org/wiki/TMMLPTEALPAITAFNFAL might sometimes have one, but apparently not
< 1527645375 416691 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: right, I think all serious languages are moving in that direction
< 1527645381 23483 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well, maybe not /all/ of them
< 1527645383 999305 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a lot of major ones
< 1527645384 990535 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas in C++ RAII-style, you just write "{ File f = open(...); ... }", and f is automatically closed at the end of the scope.
< 1527645412 926628 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even Java has "try (InputStream f = new FileInputStream(…)) {…}"
< 1527645422 376588 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a lot of ways the C++ way is nicer -- e.g. you don't end up with deeply-nested scopes and lots of lambdas if you have a lot of these things. And also some other things.
< 1527645431 330027 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think "try" is a case of reusing a keyword to avoid accidentaly invalidating old variable names)
< 1527645444 452904 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I was wondering whether you can make all control flow use this mechanism.
< 1527645448 699571 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see RAII as similar
< 1527645465 745754 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example write { if(p); ... } to mean "if (p) { ... }"
< 1527645478 600172 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you definitely /can/ do that in D
< 1527645479 556866 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where the if executes the rest of the block only if its argument is true.
< 1527645481 985689 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe only at the function level
< 1527645488 65536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually you can even do that in Perl
< 1527645492 762216 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ last unless p; … }
< 1527645504 33906 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where "last" jumps out of the current block)
< 1527645510 146627 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't just want it for if, I want it for everything.
< 1527645522 431382 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, if is easiest
< 1527645534 568421 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other cases, e.g. while, are suspiciously similar to come from
< 1527645546 597948 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ while(p); ... }, { repeat(5); repeat(3); ... }, etc.
< 1527645565 156450 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There were some other things I wanted that are less related to this.
< 1527645566 372297 :tromp_!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1527645582 707226 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might be able to write { x = for_in(arr); ...x... } to iterate an array
< 1527645666 220140 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then all these things can be implemented in terms of conditional goto or something.
< 1527645707 76574 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a lot of nice things you can get if you can make it work.
< 1527645814 846194 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't mind early exits continuing the loop, then you could use a cross between destructors and continuations
< 1527645826 282536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps the equivalent of breaking from a loop would be leaking the object
< 1527645834 556750 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to support both break and continue.
< 1527645836 678094 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Rust has an explicit function for leaking objects)
< 1527645852 94487 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is very continuationy, of course.
< 1527645875 558028 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of like in { X; ... }, X gets the ... as an argument, CPS.
< 1527645883 915069 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, Tableaux's @n syntax is basically "put the rest of the code into a block" in effect
< 1527645888 134637 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it wasn't intended as that at all
< 1527645892 3541 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This use use of the acronym isn't standard.)
< 1527645899 203415 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, this is basically Python one-liners
< 1527645954 100613 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway I don't really want it to be implemented in terms of complicated things like lambdas if possible.
< 1527645976 634620 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, I guess what we want here is sugar for a "consuming block"
< 1527645984 684755 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is in the end pretty similar to the generated assembly you get for all these constructs.
< 1527645991 597349 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lispers often use ] to represent "do ) for the rest of the program", so [ would work as a mirror of that
< 1527645995 341553 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I want a straightforward translation to low-level code.
< 1527646031 303687 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are also questions of how you represent if-else and switch and so on. I have some ideas that end up being pretty lisp-like.
< 1527646049 756581 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, I'm mentally thinking about this as sugar for Lisp more than anything else
< 1527646050 548543 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what you mean by [
< 1527646081 363975 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1527646086 927326 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of an indentation-sensitive syntax where if you write { to open a block and then you unindent to some level, you automatically get }s inserted to match the level.
< 1527646108 907628 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then what you would get with this syntax looks more or less like Python.
< 1527646124 642622 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, } means "close one block, then close an additional block for each [ since the previous { or }"
< 1527646161 660000 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're doing this as indentation-sensitive, then it's basically a normal indentation-sensitive language with a minimum indentation of 0 (rather than 1 like most of these languages use
< 1527646164 52332 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a:
< 1527646166 875486 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :  x;
< 1527646168 870814 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :  if b:
< 1527646171 120393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :  y;
< 1527646172 639841 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :z;
< 1527646196 564416 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an easy way to stop if/else chains running to the right :-D
< 1527646198 196515 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527646207 136029 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's true.
< 1527646217 379385 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most langauges have an elseif or the like specifically to optimize that case indentation-wise
< 1527646222 468415 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this langauge you wouldn't need it
< 1527646229 852881 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think indentation-sensitive languages should generally have a non-indentation-sensitive syntax option, like Haskell.
< 1527646246 488980 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How are you thinking "else" would be implemented?
< 1527646254 955878 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had some ideas but they were a little awkward.
< 1527646283 481664 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd require the matching if to have an indented (or same-line) block, otherwise you'd effectively have an else at the start of a block
< 1527646286 41365 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a:
< 1527646288 551042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :  x;
< 1527646290 243631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :else:
< 1527646291 651031 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :y;
< 1527646310 404486 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want if-else to be keywords, though, just regular user-implemented things.
< 1527646326 685573 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ideally not even macros, just functions.
< 1527646386 434854 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming you have this one mechanism to insert code/variables at the end of a scope, and conditional goto, and appropriate labels for the beginning/end, you should be able to implement all the standard control flow in user code.
< 1527646409 547081 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it gets kind of complicated, I think maybe you need five different labels for what I was thinking of.
< 1527646420 931451 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's remarkably hard to do a nicely sugared else with conditional goto
< 1527646427 239959 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :("start", "upkeep", "end", "cleanup"
< 1527646433 577463 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you can do it, but you need something like a stack of else addresses
< 1527646458 718187 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could do something lisp-style: { cond; { if(x); ... }; { else; ... }; }
< 1527646458 819778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you name them all individually it's easy, but people normally rely on the natural nesting of if/else
< 1527646470 222665 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where each if/else just needs to refer to the block immediately above.
< 1527646526 933 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that's what you meant by "a stack of else addresses".
< 1527646855 771798 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also if you have "return values" like { x := for(a); ... }, that's a little tricky
< 1527646869 891610 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's a bit SSAy, which is similar to being a bit CPSy.
< 1527647023 741796 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway there are a lot of things that would be simplified with this model.
< 1527647048 445116 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things like nested loops or other control flow, of course.
< 1527647095 45045 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But also initializers, like Go's "if x := y; z { ... }", which just turns into "{ x := y; if(z); ... }", or the initializer of a for loop.
< 1527647124 109862 :Warrigal!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527647138 503427 :Warrigal!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yo.
< 1527647147 657793 :Warrigal!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nut'n much, I'm just trying to figure out how to prove that 0 + x = x.
< 1527647168 217839 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://inutile.club/estatis/falso/ hth
< 1527647243 362646 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway there are a bunch of other things you can do if you use the model of "things inside blocks describe the block they're in" for everything, and allow flexible enough macros or something.
< 1527647308 324517 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you can define functions as { (int x, char y) := args(); }, where args is a thing that interprets your calling convention.
< 1527647375 137528 :Warrigal!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you... talking to me?
< 1527647384 899223 :Warrigal!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett NICK :tswett
< 1527647401 496667 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe even { fun(f); (int x, char y) := args(); }. Which can get compiled to something like ".globl f; f: mov $rdi, ...; whatever"
< 1527647439 356221 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's like a high-level thing with a pretty direct translation to assembly in terms of labels and (conditional) goto.
< 1527647462 557127 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe lambdas can specify their captures this way too, I don't know.
< 1527647490 549629 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something tells me you're not talking to me.
< 1527647500 224974 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: The link was for you.
< 1527647509 528751 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nod*
< 1527647515 948837 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's as much as I can help without more context.
< 1527647557 611124 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also you changed your nick and I have no nick permanence so I forgot you existed.
< 1527647567 802648 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nod nod*
< 1527647608 89769 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, so, I'm trying to prove that 0 + x = x.
< 1527647620 47843 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main axiom I've got is...
< 1527647639 307373 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ is the unique binary operator on natural numbers such that p + 0 = p and p + S(x) = S(p + x).
< 1527647698 14789 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no axiom allowing proofs by induction.
< 1527647719 52064 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it seems p. tricky hth
< 1527647733 498347 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'm definitely not sure that what I'm trying to do is possible to do.
< 1527647748 842741 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, it's pretty trivial that 0 + 0 = 0.
< 1527647770 74001 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, of course, we have 0 + S(x) = S(0 + x).
< 1527647849 204820 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably wouldn't be too much of a stretch to say that, for any particular number y, if 0 + y = y, then 0 + S(y) = S(y).
< 1527648040 241172 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemme abstract a little. I have a function f such that f(0) = 0 and f(S(x)) = S(f(x)).
< 1527648094 644411 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there we go. Uniqueness of inductively defined functions.
< 1527648180 423202 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an axiom schema which has an instance which says: "There is exactly one function f such that f(0) = 0 and f(S(x)) = S(f(x))."
< 1527648192 409680 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since 0 + x satisfies those equations, and x also satisfies those equations, 0 + x = x.
< 1527648299 175453 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you translate that to categories twh
< 1527648352 492940 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhhhh, sure.
< 1527648380 709641 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we've got an arrow plus : N * N -> N.
< 1527648391 110281 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :And arrows zero : 1 -> N and succ : N -> N.
< 1527648444 674851 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ummmm, what's the next thing.
< 1527648480 524549 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this a natural numbers object or what?
< 1527648484 319802 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1527648532 764710 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, consider the arrows const_zero : N -> N and id_N : N -> N.
< 1527648564 687232 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where const_zero = zero . 1_N.
< 1527648608 251916 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, forget about const_zero, actually.
< 1527648627 407356 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :For that matter, forget about id_N.
< 1527648638 8794 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the definition of a natural number object, there's exactly one arrow f : N -> N such that f . zero = zero and f . succ = succ . f.
< 1527648654 446759 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :id_N satisfies these equations, so f = id_N.
< 1527648748 747613 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :But plus . (zero &&& id_N) satisfies these equations too, so f = plus . (zero &&& id_N).
< 1527648801 491758 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm really botching my categories. There's no such thing as (zero &&& id_N).
< 1527648867 395319 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I mean by plus . (zero &&& id_N) is plus . ((zero . 1_N) &&& id_N).
< 1527648891 827387 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where 1_N is the unique morphism N -> 1.
< 1527648953 288256 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, of course, since equality is an equivalence relation, this means that...
< 1527648972 301596 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus . ((zero . 1_N) &&& id_N) = id_N
< 1527648981 485874 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, written in conventional pointful notation...
< 1527648985 133127 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 + x = x
< 1527651987 212947 :Naergon!~Naergon@188.29.165.19.threembb.co.uk QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
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< 1527653630 667891 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
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< 1527657970 308134 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527658737 734580 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527658881 452848 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-bhypzmfahowfwsyq QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1527658993 247875 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-lkpvfakijrzurtpg JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527659032 757512 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1527659061 272378 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1527659664 143877 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527659673 306846 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527659931 296160 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
> 1527659967 484472 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Roie14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55447&oldid=55433 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (-29) 10Holding off on TC actually, there's a problem.
< 1527660363 695168 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527661358 627931 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGIRL, dying...
< 1527661368 186677 :friendlyGoat!~Jonah@50-50-141-33.snpr.wi.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527661387 845089 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527661460 565656 :friendlyGoat!~Jonah@50-50-141-33.snpr.wi.frontiernet.net QUIT :Client Quit
< 1527662094 658787 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1527662280 260861 :impomatic!~digital_w@host86-186-214-72.range86-186.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527663036 403199 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit
< 1527663226 368826 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1527663347 711790 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Roie14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55448&oldid=55447 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (+164) 10Changed IO so it actually works, Fixed confusion
> 1527667127 587125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Seeker14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55449&oldid=55446 5* 03Plokmijnuhby 5* (+52) 10It seems like you should be able to do input without doing an operation on it. I think this was the intended behaviour.
> 1527667279 542250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Seeker14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55450&oldid=55449 5* 03Plokmijnuhby 5* (-23) 10Made a slight mistake.
> 1527667407 549596 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Seeker14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55451&oldid=55450 5* 03Plokmijnuhby 5* (-52) 10Sorry, just read the next section. Maybe this?
< 1527667513 488451 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
> 1527667575 237669 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Seeker14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55452&oldid=55451 5* 03Plokmijnuhby 5* (+3) 10/* Infinite counter (using seekers) */ I'm fairly confident that was wrong, anyway.
< 1527669258 482419 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-weyhgttzlsfpyfvn JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527669622 175857 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1527669656 840320 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527669666 293184 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1527669680 730917 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527672151 393486 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-dhqxaekqpwvduauq QUIT :Changing host
< 1527672151 393548 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527672151 471032 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Changing host
< 1527672151 471093 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-dhqxaekqpwvduauq JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527672882 743455 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1527673373 796292 :trout!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1527673527 866189 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527678869 83104 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527680461 381218 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1527680524 920129 :plokmijnuhby!4e954f6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.149.79.110 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527680536 330610 :plokmijnuhby!4e954f6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.149.79.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :waddup
< 1527680699 417518 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527681266 399369 :Naergon!~Naergon@unaffiliated/naergon JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527681364 904230 :plokmijnuhby!4e954f6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.149.79.110 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1527681779 370022 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-weyhgttzlsfpyfvn QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
> 1527682615 953914 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Akangka 5*  10New user account
> 1527683038 349062 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55453&oldid=55434 5* 03Akangka 5* (+199) 10/* Introductions */
> 1527683052 586478 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OISC14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55454&oldid=54359 5* 03Akangka 5* (+167) 10
< 1527688837 501900 :Guest13947!sid154965@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fcebzexizwvaivdw NICK :Lynn
< 1527688867 527823 :Lynn!sid154965@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fcebzexizwvaivdw NICK :Guest31035
< 1527689767 389834 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: /dev/null is full
< 1527690932 23781 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uirzywbkmczeegrs JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527692282 415825 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527692640 771081 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527692782 371823 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Client Quit
< 1527695065 754469 :APic!apic@apic.name JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527696022 951768 :olsner!~salparot@c83-253-165-33.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :shikhin: you might know alercah from in here?
< 1527696099 420802 :olsner!~salparot@c83-253-165-33.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course you don't actually need to know anyone to join them in ##:D
< 1527696353 588612 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :was about to say
< 1527697464 715038 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527697976 706724 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:472:2159:9db2:3953:2c87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1527698202 156660 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like an extremely silly channel
< 1527698347 287689 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, alercah: Ah, I see.
< 1527698352 149213 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: No!
< 1527698610 645000 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:3dd3:1deb:1c8f:2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527698711 978170 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uirzywbkmczeegrs QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1527699271 770727 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:3dd3:1deb:1c8f:2539 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
< 1527699918 881664 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)
< 1527700166 112332 :aloril_!~aloril@80.246.146.6 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
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< 1527701189 293870 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera NICK :motaneva
< 1527701226 156223 :motaneva!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera NICK :izabera
> 1527701803 107318 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OISC14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55455&oldid=55454 5* 03Ais523 5* (+2) 10/* List of OISCs */ grammar
< 1527703854 904109 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
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< 1527704153 385940 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527706634 523013 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any high-level language that has conditional goto?
< 1527706718 76555 :Guest6451!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-18-38.w2-5.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that fancy talk for an if
< 1527706749 960820 :Guest6451!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-18-38.w2-5.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :also probably not
< 1527706752 33055 :Guest6451!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-18-38.w2-5.abo.wanadoo.fr NICK :Slereah
< 1527706763 816382 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's fancy talk for "if (p) goto q;"
< 1527706797 377459 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it doesn't have to be that high-level.
< 1527706813 900966 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want it to be in terms of an expression argument instead of a flags register or something.
< 1527706837 784773 :Slereah!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-18-38.w2-5.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well assembly has them
< 1527706842 686725 :Slereah!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-18-38.w2-5.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not very high level
< 1527706901 693326 :Slereah!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-18-38.w2-5.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :As high level languages got developped goto became a big taboo so I don't think there were a lot of variants
< 1527707415 186844 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
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< 1527708249 710027 :aloril!~aloril@80.246.146.6 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527708731 505134 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527708760 78174 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, there are basic-like languages that have only an IF comparison GOTO label statement, not a full IF THEN
< 1527708840 72883 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: in particular, the simple programming language of my sharp el-5120 programmable calculator only has such a conditional statement. the comparison uses one of the six arith comparison operators, with basically any expression (including complicated ones) possible on both sides of that operator
< 1527708916 619630 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some older programmable calculators from before precedence expression parsing also have some comparison-goto statements, although usually it's just comparison to zero
< 1527709047 456243 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas older intercals and older APLs only have a computed goto, rather than a conditional one
< 1527709071 476968 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although intercal's is somewhat limited
< 1527709089 932388 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a real computed goto, just a BASIC-style switch-goto
< 1527709107 102773 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is written as ON expr GOTO labellist in BASICs)
< 1527709214 507909 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and... hmm, I don't know the history here, but don't some older fortran variants only have if-goto? or do they have single-line if like traditional BASICs do too?
< 1527709216 620505 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes sense.
< 1527709240 132471 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you see the thing I said about blocks yesterday?
< 1527709281 76119 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus FORTRAN has that unique "three-way if" statement that is a switch-goto with exactly three targets depending on whether the controlling expression is zero or negative or positive
< 1527709320 242862 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: do you mean about the destructor exceptions? I wanted to say something about that too
< 1527709339 240730 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, except now I think destructors are kind of a red herring now
< 1527709347 999905 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C++ and some other languages, you could query in the destructor whether it's currently unrolling exceptions or not
< 1527709369 452864 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you test that and only run your cleanup if they aren't unrolling, then you get what you asked for
< 1527709374 152872 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I saw that. But unwinding the stack due to exception is pretty special, more special than break/early return.
< 1527709395 539766 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternately you could use a non-local exit mechanism and a destructor that aren't compatible with each other, so that non-local exit doesn't properly unwind the stack.
< 1527709405 479472 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see.
< 1527709407 129858 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet ternary computers have a three-way if.
< 1527709418 378208 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in ruby 1.8 those are implemented very similarly
< 1527709450 633410 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I remember all these features of Ruby 1.8
< 1527709456 482238 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :redo, retry, all those strange things
< 1527709462 999478 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did they take some of these things out?
< 1527709470 875912 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so
< 1527709473 775725 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those aren't strange
< 1527709486 927217 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are just like gotos with lexical targets, as in
< 1527709536 807792 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a function call with a block passed, written as either f(args){block} or f(args)do block end; and it basically makes a lambda of that block and passes it as an argument in a special place and
< 1527709572 442843 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the impl of the function f the shortcut yield statements calls that callback, but instead of calling it can also just store that callback and do whatever it wants;
< 1527709614 156184 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anyway, if you have a call like f(args){block} then imagine you put goto labels in it like this: label RETRY; f(args) { label REDO; ...; label NEXT; } label BREAK;
< 1527709644 18569 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Ruby you can write a regular while function that can be used like while(p) { ... }, right?
< 1527709647 164834 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then the four control statements go to those four labels, only they remember the right labels lexically even when you're multiple levels inside such calls
< 1527709653 491204 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a pretty unusual feature for a function, I think.
< 1527709666 318926 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that these loop controls also apply for some built-in loop statements other than those syntaxes
< 1527709703 699423 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no, that wouldn't work firstly because "while" is actually a keyword with a different syntax, secondly because you'd need to make a lambda of the condition too because it has to be evaluated multiple times
< 1527709725 484562 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's the weird thing about retry, the way you wrote it.
< 1527709733 941018 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That you can have the argument to the function reevaluated.
< 1527709741 333433 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, you can write if and while conditionals that way, and that's how smalltalk and postscript etc do it
< 1527709750 122389 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas ruby has a couple of builtin syntaxes for those
< 1527709765 29999 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought in Ruby you could do it without a lambda.
< 1527709771 253102 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, but it's still just a goto, only with a lexical label, and ruby doesn't normally have gotos
< 1527709790 86789 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't think you can
< 1527709807 233706 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the function f can't call retry to recompute its arguments
< 1527709820 834909 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's onlk the brace block that knows (lexically) where that label is
< 1527709825 422494 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: See http://ruby-doc.com/docs/ProgrammingRuby/html/tut_expressions.html#UM
< 1527709830 841395 :user24!~void@p200300886901540015E7616E3670A412.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527709862 790188 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying this now in Ruby 2.5 and it says it's an invalid retry.
< 1527709877 514126 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So maybe this *was* removed sometime after 1.8.
< 1527709899 940400 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for "for" and "while" loops, two and three respective of those control statements are the same as the two and three control statements of C and perl respectively.
< 1527709925 517948 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only logical that ruby added a fourth one, and that it allowed them arbitrarily deep with the lambda lexically bound
< 1527710021 857892 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for more complicated loops, they're different:
< 1527710075 827400 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in perl, the control statements will act on the actual innermost loop, not on the loop that's in the lexical context of where you put the loop statement, which can get to broken invariants if the loop is in another function that doesn't expect you to use loop control statements on it,
< 1527710116 360367 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the same is true if you use loop labels in perl: with those you can distinguish different loops, but among two nested loops with the same label (or two recursive instances of the same loop code), the loop control statement will act on the innermost one.
< 1527710165 173399 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527710192 365106 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruby has actual lexical loops, although you could simulate them in any language if you have call/ec or selective exception catching checking the value of the exception not just the type
< 1527710288 15374 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the part that I find strange is that many of these languages with these powerful control constructs are reluctant to support gotos, despite that there is little or no technical difficulties implementing them. ruby doesn't normally have gotos, although I think there's some non-vanilla hack adding them; python doesn't have goto; lua does have goto no
< 1527710288 134840 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :w but didn't use to have it for a while;
< 1527710313 274439 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and rust doesn't have goto yet, but I hope people will eventually agree to add one after the rewrite of the borrow checker.
< 1527710426 843600 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily perl has a goto (and it's quite powerful a tool too, but still only syntactical if you try to goto out from a lambda body), and C++ has a goto too (with some limitations)
< 1527710500 527985 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :languages should just add goto and come from (plain one, not computed one; the computed one is much more difficult).
< 1527710534 762316 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-eso languages that is
< 1527710543 793400 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some esolangs have good excuses not to have it
< 1527712649 918025 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I don't understand why more languages don't have unless aand until
< 1527713282 910639 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: I don't like those these days
< 1527713435 209318 :impomatic!~digital_w@host86-186-214-72.range86-186.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1527713920 341376 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there something like continuation-passing style in low-level languages that don't support closures and so on?
< 1527713935 70362 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that's what I'm looking for.
< 1527713957 229149 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :SSA is one sort of answer.
< 1527713969 297426 :Cale!~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527714153 493031 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you just emulate closures by storing a state and all upvalues in that case
< 1527714208 648465 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes.
< 1527714267 633489 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you optimize that by having a persistent structure that stores most of your values, rather than creating a new structure for every state
< 1527714273 246812 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :object-oriented style
< 1527715152 475845 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1527715522 245476 :user24!~void@p200300886901540015E7616E3670A412.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1527715685 405122 :Naergon!~Naergon@unaffiliated/naergon QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1527717269 173336 :Naergon!~Naergon@unaffiliated/naergon JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527718136 307841 :friendlyGoat!~Jonah@50.105.198.143 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527718141 688841 :friendlyGoat!~Jonah@50.105.198.143 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1527718512 741372 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1527718860 710469 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527719097 688116 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1527719131 123711 :Elronnd!elronnd@slashem.me NICK :Elronnd`srn
< 1527719137 445527 :Elronnd`srn!elronnd@slashem.me NICK :Elronnd\srn
< 1527719716 516775 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1527720788 854924 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-esrgrtqkiyzrfmyk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527721207 738941 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So I think a pretty natural way to express "for x: ...\nelse: z" is "loop: { for (x) { ...break loop...; };  }", if you have labeled breaks.
< 1527721258 952575 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, blocks should support return values, and return should just be the same thing as break?
< 1527721265 592919 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then inlining is very straightforward.
< 1527721283 474443 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also ais523 isn't here. Maybe he logreads.
< 1527721298 126716 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently Rust recently got support for return values for blocks.
< 1527721916 984873 :Cale!~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1527722374 300633 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:75f8:f06a:ff2d:f227 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527722689 652267 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527723201 354884 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:75f8:f06a:ff2d:f227 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1527723889 739417 :Cale!~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527724101 361024 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1527724568 708139 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527725937 317804 :MDude!~MDude@pa-67-234-118-37.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1527727067 634164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Xanman12321 5*  10New user account
< 1527727078 851912 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGIRL, dying...
> 1527727365 290520 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55456&oldid=55453 5* 03Xanman12321 5* (+219) 10
> 1527727386 356097 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Xanman1232114]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55457 5* 03Xanman12321 5* (+13) 10Created page with "Hey, I'm Xan."
< 1527728035 573335 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1527728108 275251 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527728355 665585 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'all know about skullcode, right? http://skullcode.com/
< 1527728386 585390 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's this thing. It's not completely obvious what, exactly, it is.
< 1527728387 819260 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you going to try to convince me to click the link?
< 1527728410 483591 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's a "self-hex-editor" hosted in some sort of VM.
< 1527728429 744926 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a hex editor running on a VM, where the thing that it's editing is the memory of that VM.
< 1527728464 928540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1527728469 638961 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't that make it a codenomic, technically?
< 1527728471 562238 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523
< 1527728474 860360 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi shachaf
< 1527728476 219071 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kind of!
< 1527728479 388401 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you logread?
< 1527728500 670901 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not multi-player.
< 1527728503 68492 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not normally; sometimes I logread when I have nothing better to do (not the case right now!) but in such cases I'll typically not be on IRC at the time
< 1527728503 854931 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: do I? I don't.
< 1527728509 940315 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if someone suggests logreading then that'll normally prompt me to read
< 1527728516 822741 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, let me segue into my question.
< 1527728539 296700 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know of a browser-hosted VM (similar to skullcode) where you can edit, save, and load snapshots of the VM state?
< 1527728547 636621 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preferably a VM with a simple architecture, like MIPS?
< 1527728570 727581 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a bit about for-else above but by now I've had a whole bunch of other thoughts.
< 1527728579 44040 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: sorry for my connection
< 1527728591 582178 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527728642 925182 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : In Ruby you can write a regular while function that can be used like while(p) { ... }, right? ← this is a defining feature of call-by-name languages
< 1527728664 709392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some languages are normally call-by-value but let you explicitly lazify an argument, which makes them effectively call-by-name in that respect
< 1527728720 616201 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not exactly what's going on there, I think.
< 1527728763 347781 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't reevaluate an arbitrary argument, just restart the entire function from the top, including argument evaluation.
< 1527728785 529357 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also when people say call-by-name I usually think of languages without mutable variables.
< 1527728791 930986 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ocaml
< 1527728792 649985 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/`: line 5: ocaml: command not found
< 1527728795 50560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh
< 1527728797 890507 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :was going to give an example
< 1527728808 149685 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I believe you, it makes sense.
< 1527728815 310906 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that defeats most of the point of call-by-name if you don't have mutable variables
< 1527728820 445735 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as that makes the calling convention invisible
< 1527728838 411956 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you don't know or care if it's call-by-name or not and in most contexts, call-by-value is more efficient
< 1527728917 556835 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless an argument doesn't terminate or something like that.
< 1527728925 235095 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1527728931 950193 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's effectively an effect too
< 1527728944 407014 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure.
< 1527729402 613147 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: here, here's a program I just wrote: http://nethack4.org/pastebin/15.txt
< 1527729408 317593 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's Algol 60
< 1527729412 137419 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it shows off call-by-name pretty well
< 1527729427 125911 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although not the control flow behaviour (Algol 60 control flow is painful), more the basic idea of CBN
< 1527729439 334625 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shows off re-evaluating arbitrary arguments, at least
< 1527729466 604641 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(OK, technically it isn't proper Algol 60 as Algol 60 doesn't have a print statement, but my Algol 60 compiler adds one as an extension)
< 1527729726 426945 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes sense.
< 1527729835 706798 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can probably guess what output gets printed
> 1527729882 190570 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Roie14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55458&oldid=55448 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (+112) 10Just incase.
< 1527729935 770453 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1527730220 237887 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually that code feels a bit icky to me from a types point of view, functions should be distinguishing between integer lvalues and integer rvalues
< 1527730332 395683 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527731119 748584 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527731714 312769 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGIRL, dying...
< 1527732896 699117 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527733240 400604 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527733248 724102 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this roie language is giving me some real trouble to make it actually work
< 1527733258 239238 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might have to add yet another instruction
> 1527734057 242971 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Xanman1232114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55459&oldid=55457 5* 03Xanman12321 5* (+34) 10
> 1527734425 35119 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Xanman12321/Consequences14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55460 5* 03Xanman12321 5* (+573) 10Created page with "'''Consequences''' is an esolang very similar to Brainfuck, however each command does something unwanted. {| class="wikitable" |- ! Command !! Extra action |- | > || Decrement..."
< 1527734734 730391 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Noice he finally made that
< 1527734832 580819 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's userspace, so it's probably a draft rather than a final version
< 1527734929 868332 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering if it was TC until I saw the side effect of +
< 1527734936 219883 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I think it probably is TC, although I'm not sure
< 1527734957 955728 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there might be something specific you can't do that you need to but I can't see anything obvious
< 1527734976 215849 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you mostly use + to go left, > to go right, - to adjust cells
< 1527734995 927900 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and leave enough junk elements on the tape that you can throw away most of the side effects in places you don't care about
> 1527735023 936217 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Xanman12321/Consequences14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55461&oldid=55460 5* 03Xanman12321 5* (-573) 10Blanked the page
> 1527735061 813487 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Xanman12321/Consequences14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55462&oldid=55461 5* 03Xanman12321 5* (+573) 10
> 1527735107 181926 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Xanman12321 5*  10moved [[02User:Xanman12321/Consequences10]] to [[Esolang:Xanman12321/Consequences]]
< 1527735121 433284 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I think they're trying to move it to mainspace
< 1527735126 718199 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd better intervene, screwed-up moves can be hard to fix
> 1527735134 943705 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Xanman12321 5*  10moved [[02Esolang:Xanman12321/Consequences10]] to [[Xanman12321/Consequences]]
< 1527735136 56756 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1527735138 216764 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :he;'s got it.
< 1527735143 536355 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry I'm in his DM
> 1527735152 396356 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10moved [[02Esolang:Xanman12321/Consequences10]] to [[Consequences]]: I assume the author's trying to move this to mainspace
< 1527735161 837960 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh ais523
> 1527735181 267497 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10deleted "[[02User:Xanman12321/Consequences10]]": Broken redirect
< 1527735182 331716 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :He already moved it back berfore you did that
< 1527735187 66311 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1527735202 986507 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to warn you.
> 1527735203 327032 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Xanman12321 5*  10moved [[02Xanman12321/Consequences10]] to [[Consequential]]
< 1527735214 745856 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consequential
> 1527735215 228220 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Consequential14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55470&oldid=55468 5* 03Xanman12321 5* (+1) 10
< 1527735218 473228 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice.
< 1527735247 764282 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of want to write an implementation of this block language.
< 1527735255 810967 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it might be a lot of work.
> 1527735256 389500 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10deleted "[[02Consequences10]]": Broken redirect
< 1527735279 607633 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm mostly procrastinating on something important by thinking about it.
> 1527735287 362379 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10deleted "[[02Xanman12321/Consequences10]]": Broken redirect: redirect left behind after a chain page-move
< 1527735289 480767 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry mate, looks like you were trying to help but just ended up messing up in the end.
< 1527735310 48288 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, he didn't move it back
< 1527735315 141593 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he moved it to three different titles
< 1527735319 32993 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I had to clean up after each of them
< 1527735332 788007 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... well I'm confused.
< 1527735339 736652 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :He has been on the discord and just created his account
< 1527735341 185928 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :‎<‎ais523‎>‎ I'd better intervene, screwed-up moves can be hard to fix ← looks like I was slightly too slow on the intervening, but luckily it was screwed up in a way that was fairly easy for an admin to fix
< 1527735343 515374 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's new.
< 1527735354 699653 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll inform him of this redirect "issue".
< 1527735357 41345 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the page name /meant/ to be? if it's Consequential, then all is fine
< 1527735367 783877 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep he's fine with that
< 1527735379 68412 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic rule is that you can't move the same page twice without admin help, or things end up getting slightly broken
< 1527735399 696316 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but quite a few people try to get round this issue via copy-and-paste which makes things a lot worse
< 1527735417 311203 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that didn't happen so the cleanup wasn't so hard
< 1527735422 646977 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok I've sent him an image of this so he knows about it.
< 1527735431 639101 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that he doesn't accidentally create redirects unkouwningly
< 1527735439 425064 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unknowingly*
< 1527735443 240067 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-(
< 1527735486 485357 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, when you create a new language, it's often worth adding it to categories (see https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Categorisation) and to the [[e:Language list]]
< 1527735491 800138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, https://esolangs.org/wiki/Language_list
< 1527735506 862486 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes it easier for other people to come across it
< 1527735523 381891 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which increases the chance that you get comments from other people, implementations, computational class proofs, etc.
< 1527735553 229531 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the only places it shows are in Special:RecentChanges (and it stops being recent after a while…) and Special:Allpages, very few people are likely to ever see it
> 1527735588 126633 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Consequential14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55471&oldid=55470 5* 03Xanman12321 5* (+44) 10
> 1527735607 469787 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Consequential14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55472&oldid=55471 5* 03Xanman12321 5* (+1) 10
> 1527735649 41902 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Consequential14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55473&oldid=55472 5* 03Xanman12321 5* (+8) 10
> 1527735667 982776 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Consequential14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55474&oldid=55473 5* 03Xanman12321 5* (+0) 10
> 1527735691 396745 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Consequential14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55475&oldid=55474 5* 03Xanman12321 5* (-3) 10
> 1527735697 272369 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Consequential14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55476&oldid=55475 5* 03Xanman12321 5* (-1) 10
> 1527735711 831400 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Consequential14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55477&oldid=55476 5* 03Ais523 5* (-12) 10site policy: links to userspace must have the "User:" visible
< 1527737495 872194 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :really?
< 1527737502 269463 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the User: part must be visible?
< 1527737527 207703 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait did you just update your privacy policy?!?!
< 1527737562 578075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, that's been a policy for years and years
< 1527737576 898787 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1527737579 219170 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Policy
< 1527737584 803441 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I know plently of esolang pages which don't have User:
< 1527737599 143746 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since 2007: http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Esolang:Policy&oldid=7955
< 1527737603 325168 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`[[User:Galaxtone|Galaxtone]]` well there goes this.
< 1527737603 947464 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: [[User:Galaxtone|Galaxtone]]`: not found
< 1527737613 469272 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ssh hackeso wasnt talking to you.
< 1527737620 781381 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, it's not that enforced because it's easy to miss it
< 1527737632 964135 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the point is that we want to separate pages /about/ something or someone from pages /by/ something or somoene
< 1527737653 236888 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can write more or less what I like on https://esolangs.org/wiki/User:ais523, but people visiting the page should know that it might be potentially biased or the like
< 1527737656 565776 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to go through all my contributions
< 1527737705 596386 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it was policy even before 2007 I think
< 1527737733 751131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Esolang:Policy page started off as observational, i.e. "this is a list of things that people got banned for disobeying even though there were no explicit rules", back when Esolang was pretty much a dictatorship
< 1527737738 750370 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowadays we use it as a guide to what the rules are
> 1527737747 4302 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Roie14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55478&oldid=55458 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (-10) 10Just learned it's against esolang "policy" to hide "User:" in user page links. ;-;
< 1527737772 737622 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well now to apply that to like 5 other pages
> 1527737829 528743 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Seeker14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55479&oldid=55452 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (-15) 10Just learned it's against esolang "policy" to hide "User:" in page links. ;-;
> 1527737850 43802 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Schmuu14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55480&oldid=55423 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (-18) 10Just learned it's against esolang "policy" to hide "User:" in page links. ;-;
> 1527737869 951772 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07The Insane Esolang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55481&oldid=55420 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (-10) 10Just learned it's against esolang "policy" to hide "User:" in page links. ;-;
< 1527737894 414355 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait...
< 1527737901 588254 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emoji-gramming doesn't show who created the language.
< 1527738427 698647 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: /dev/null is full
< 1527739101 484214 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Do you like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar9WRwCiSr0
< 1527739451 503180 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I guess that's somewhat on-topic in here.
< 1527739542 762778 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo can someone link Brianfukc
< 1527740274 278801 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man
< 1527740277 908990 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :this video is too good
> 1527742108 575732 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Consequential14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55482&oldid=55477 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (+404) 10Redid the layout a bit.
< 1527742234 342872 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Galaxtone: hmm, your friend deleted the end of the article by mistake
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> 1527758495 312501 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Fyr 5*  10New user account
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> 1527759018 670360 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55483&oldid=55456 5* 03Fyr 5* (+137) 10
< 1527759090 509921 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no, Rust always had return values from blocks, they were always expressions like do-blocks in perl
< 1527759119 825666 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the new feature is that now you can use a break statement for a bare labeled block, as opposed to just in a while loop with or without a label
< 1527759130 973422 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for such a break statement, you can also return a value, which isn't too new
< 1527759178 174936 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, I mean for a forever loop
< 1527759222 561586 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't allow return values for while loops and for loops, for the technical reason that the return value wouldn't be defined if the condition is false the first time in a while loop or there are no iterations on the for loop
< 1527759239 189652 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but forever loops always have at least one iteration, because they don't start with a condition, so it's no problem there
< 1527759315 972831 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'd also like to note that my esolang geo has plain blocks and forever loops, and for both you have unconditional and conditional breaks that can deliver a return value for the block, but only for the innermost level, no labels or multi-level breaks
< 1527759409 674577 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, looks good.
< 1527759442 397742 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought saw an RFC for adding these things to Rust but maybe it was quite old.
< 1527759452 302471 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and rust has supported multi-level breaks using loop labels for very long, but not through function/lambda boundaries
< 1527759545 777337 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruby and mathematica also have values for blocks, with not much difference between statements and expressions
< 1527759627 547907 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in rust there's some slight difference, as in, you need a brace block (as opposed to just parenthesis) for semicolons or local variable declarations or other declarations, and brace blocks make the lexical scope of identifiers declared inside local into them and gets local variables declared in them destroyed at the end of the block (like C++)
< 1527759665 895463 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I also want possible input values for blocks.
< 1527759702 412102 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but brace blocks themselves are expressions that you can put anywhere in an expression and have a value, and all the control statements (if, while, for, case, loop) are statements you can put anywhere too (although while and for always return unit)
< 1527759761 740195 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you have those too, if you mean like the limited syntax support for local variables declared in the head condition of an if/while/for like in C++
< 1527759774 207845 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what else you mean by input values
< 1527759826 875955 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, well, how would you translate { it := for(a); ... } as described earlier?
< 1527759843 628597 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um... described where? let me check the logs
< 1527759896 993577 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't understand the question. can you clarify?
< 1527759925 99195 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand it either, exactly.
< 1527759957 34361 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you defined a "for" operator that iterates a thing and yields a value to the rest of the block, what code would it turn into?
< 1527760110 611677 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe something like: { L: Iterator it, end; start: it = a.begin(); end = a.end(); upkeep: if (it == end) break L; goto main; main: { ... }; end: ++i; goto upkeep; }
< 1527760121 927581 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is half-C++
< 1527760175 938458 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: in rust, the for loop always returns the unit value (), because that's how it's defined and that's what makes sense when it can have zero iterations. if you want a return value, you use a library method such as map, find, max, sum, fold, ...
< 1527760194 739927 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, I agree about that.
< 1527760211 661897 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you can use a local variable and access it inside a for loop or in the callback of some of those methods
< 1527760228 497470 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because lambda magic)
< 1527760264 939785 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rust has mutable local variables like C++, perl, ruby, scheme, etc, so you can do this easily, unlike in haskell
< 1527760287 283238 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do that but sometimes it doesn't make sense to have an uninitialized variable.
< 1527760298 845037 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, then you can initialize it
< 1527760310 935973 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you can use an option
< 1527760336 294288 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the fold method, you give an initializer; for the find method, it returns an Option (which is like a Maybe in haskell)
< 1527760416 534605 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, but I'm not talking about Rust.
< 1527760464 464473 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no real reason to talk about C++ iterators either, of course, but they're a reasonable starting point.
< 1527760595 894979 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think what rust does here is more or less reasonable
< 1527760919 510161 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For what?
< 1527761072 425952 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: for syntax and semantics of loops and statements and expressions, at least in a language that you may want to compile
< 1527761088 862076 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as opposed to some fully dynamically typed language that you'll always interpret)
< 1527761127 260543 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you know, one like ruby or perl where you can override most builtin ops)
< 1527761373 427700 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I specifically want this other syntax and semantis.
< 1527761401 380752 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still all compiled, though, hopefully to equally efficient code.
< 1527761464 293502 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: um, but what's the other syntax and semantics you're proposing?
< 1527761685 297046 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's what I'm figuring out.
< 1527761708 277859 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The syntax looks like { x := for(a); ...; }
< 1527761769 912895 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: but what would that do?
< 1527761782 915078 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would do "for(x : a) { ... }"
< 1527761786 115398 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1527761799 210967 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, I don't know, { i := for(range(n)); j := for(range(m)); if (i < j); print (i,j); }
< 1527761811 927679 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each thing affects the rest of the block that comes after it.
< 1527761826 439010 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I talked about this earlier but probably not very clearly.
< 1527762140 557987 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense
< 1527762215 374202 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think "blocks that have an input" is similar to SSA
< 1527762287 192862 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I guess conditional goto is standard in SSA.
< 1527762301 902293 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :With basic blocks/extended basic blocks and all that?
< 1527763069 836054 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com QUIT :Quit: Tis but a scratch
< 1527763960 284464 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, what is "SSA"?
> 1527766354 769416 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Infbf14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55484 5* 03Fyr 5* (+1346) 10Created page with "'''Infbf''' is an [[esoteric programming language]] by [[User:Fyr]]. It is a derivative of [[brainfuck]] with an infinite-dimensional hypercube tape where each dimension has t..."
> 1527766421 988808 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Fyr14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55485 5* 03Fyr 5* (+9) 10Created page with "[[Infbf]]"
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> 1527770404 201101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Infbf14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55486&oldid=55484 5* 03Fyr 5* (+200) 10
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> 1527771313 748879 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Infbf14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55487&oldid=55486 5* 03Fyr 5* (+8) 10
< 1527781147 95433 :Cale!~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`smlist 464
< 1527781147 811743 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :smlist 464: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy Cale
< 1527781362 477017 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1527781659 347348 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: Yay
> 1527782060 318124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Seigel 5*  10New user account
< 1527782506 635448 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1527782836 715967 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527784931 679795 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527786146 517658 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-002-203-000-049.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Quit: thunderstorm
< 1527787169 418426 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527787507 733947 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1527787787 479634 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-002-203-000-049.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527788157 618126 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
> 1527788357 890507 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Infbf14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55488&oldid=55487 5* 03Fyr 5* (+88) 10Added implementation
< 1527788904 364211 :TIKOALA!~stefan@22.243.151.77.rev.sfr.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527788941 720197 :TIKOALA!~stefan@22.243.151.77.rev.sfr.net PART :#esoteric
< 1527789700 207090 :Naergon!~Naergon@unaffiliated/naergon QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1527789828 343425 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu
< 1527792444 661502 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527793096 264075 :user24!~void@p2003008869012300796685AC3938AA46.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527793545 385555 :MDude!~MDude@pa-67-234-118-37.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1527793647 692215 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1527795272 721925 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1527795684 568813 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ivljhpoyakdmqqtr QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1527797056 481138 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527797059 973260 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1527797279 68058 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1527799136 738459 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu
< 1527799180 543914 :MDude!~MDude@pa-67-234-118-37.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1527801823 615894 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Infbf14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55489&oldid=55488 5* 03Fyr 5* (+25) 10
< 1527801864 704722 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@2604:6000:b188:9800:9d13:8c40:9971:5084 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527804330 269335 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-lkpvfakijrzurtpg QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1527804368 737839 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-jtxxupqfdsikbnrk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527804710 181000 :iconmaster_!~iconmaste@2604:6000:b188:9800:9ded:4732:55c1:d3d6 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527804956 749589 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@2604:6000:b188:9800:9d13:8c40:9971:5084 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1527805487 537025 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uyiniflljyfmgcxp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527805725 643335 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527806220 646528 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1527808077 689703 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1527809030 692639 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1527809152 217652 :user24!~void@p2003008869012300796685AC3938AA46.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1527809918 308346 :user24!~void@p200300886900E100796685AC3938AA46.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527810959 775045 :iconmaster__!~iconmaste@2604:6000:b188:9800:447b:674d:9782:7b62 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527810961 480433 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1527811081 218059 :friendlyGoat!~Jonah@50.105.198.143 JOIN :#esoteric