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02:03:52 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Cjarvis * New user account
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02:08:55 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56434&oldid=56392 * Cjarvis * (+276) /* Introductions */
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02:53:07 <oerjan> <myname> is A related to asdf? <-- pretty much assuming it's the same person
02:54:29 <shachaf> but then why would one of them have asked the other one's permission to do something
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03:08:04 * oerjan swats shachaf -----###
03:08:26 <imode> why can't storing trees in memory be as simple as storing a string. ;~;
03:09:28 <oerjan> . o O ( maybe imode wants ghc's compact regions )
03:09:55 <shachaf> imode: it can be if you just store complete trees hth
03:10:24 <imode> shachaf: well yeah but tree rewriting tyyypically doesn't deal with complete trees.
03:10:33 <imode> it'd be a massive space waster.
03:11:14 <shachaf> store all the data in one place and the shape in another place hth
03:11:15 <imode> plus the re-parenting of orphaned nodes and stuff upon rewrites.
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03:11:33 <imode> well yeah but it'd... still require a fixed number of bits per node regardless of data.
03:11:56 <shachaf> Well, you can store the shape pretty efficiently with fancy rank-select dictionaries or something.
03:12:28 <imode> yeah, succinct trees. but that's for relatively sparse read-only data. dynamically updatable succinct trees are much harder than that.
03:12:33 <shachaf> Not so sure about mutation.
03:12:59 <imode> something I considered early on (about last year) was storing unique paths through an infinite complete binary tree.
03:13:12 <shachaf> This reminds me of the other thing I was trying to figure out, which was about storing data in complete mostly-ordered trees.
03:13:29 <shachaf> (Rather than ordered mostly-complete trees like most balanced search trees.)
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03:13:54 <imode> I just don't get why people see trees/terms as more fundamental than strings in mathematics, I guess.
03:14:23 <imode> they're harder to work with, require bolting on binding and matching features onto whatever you to do to anything useful...
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03:15:18 <imode> maybe it's because we've been dealing with expressions that take the form of trees for however long expressional/equational reasoning has been around.
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03:24:53 <esowiki> [[Shorten your Brainfuck code]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56435&oldid=56432 * A * (+0) /* Really? A shorter one */
03:48:53 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56436&oldid=56420 * Oerjan * (-167) That's nice, but unfortunately it doesn't terminate on 0.
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04:25:16 <myname> imode: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prüfer_sequence ?
04:42:44 <imode> myname: at a glance it doesn't seem like this'd permit easy modification. unless you can do traversal and modification solely based on the sequence alone
04:43:57 <imode> it looks like you'd be able to. it'd just be a little weird.
04:44:40 <imode> something I've also wondered is are there ways of compactly storing unlabeled trees?
04:49:34 <myname> the pure structure can be stored pretty compact
04:50:08 <myname> last year i had a code for that which basically just encodes branching to the left or right with bits
04:51:51 <myname> for trees where each node is either a leaf or has k children, you can store it with a 1 bit for going downwards and a 0 bit for going upwards again
04:52:14 <myname> oh, you don't even need k children for that
04:52:52 <myname> you may only receive an isomorphic tree through this, though
04:53:07 <myname> like, / is encoded as 10, but \ is as well
05:00:54 <imode> so you store a depth first traversal?
05:01:25 <imode> wait. isn't that just nested parens?
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05:33:13 <esowiki> [[Shorten your Brainfuck code]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56437&oldid=56435 * A * (+1263) /* Use the visualizer */
05:33:54 <esowiki> [[Shorten your Brainfuck code]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56438&oldid=56437 * A * (-27) /* Use the visualizer */
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06:49:15 <esowiki> [[Unless]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=56439 * A * (+853) Created page with "Unless is a derivative of [[~ATH]]. ==Tutorial== ===The simplest possible Unless program=== T: ;All unnecessary things ===T=== This can be changed into anything. If it..."
06:56:53 <esowiki> [[--Unless]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=56440 * A * (+854) Created page with "==Tutorial== ===The simplest possible Unless program=== That is a [[Null program]]. ===R=== Run something. (This can run anything) It usually runs a code. A tab or 4 spaces..."
06:57:49 <esowiki> [[--Unless]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56441&oldid=56440 * A * (+3) /* The simplest possible Unless program */
06:58:52 <esowiki> [[--Unless]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56442&oldid=56441 * A * (-34) /* ; */
07:01:04 <esowiki> [[--Unless]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56443&oldid=56442 * A * (+239) /* Objects */
07:01:45 <esowiki> [[--Unless]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56444&oldid=56443 * A * (+2) /* Objects */
07:06:26 <esowiki> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56445&oldid=56039 * A * (+196) /* ~-~! */
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07:10:07 <esowiki> [[--Unless]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56446&oldid=56444 * A * (+250) /* Objects */
07:11:41 <esowiki> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56447&oldid=56445 * A * (+232) /* --Unless */
07:18:49 <esowiki> [[--Unless]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56448&oldid=56446 * A * (+29) /* Tutorial */
07:19:25 <esowiki> [[--Unless]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56449&oldid=56448 * A * (+35) /* Objects */
07:20:01 <esowiki> [[--Unless]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56450&oldid=56449 * A * (+23) /* :something */
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08:59:59 <esowiki> [[OOOOL]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=56451 * A * (+436) Created page with "OOOOL is the acronym for "Object-Oriented Output Only Language". ==Tutorial== ===How to define a function=== To define a function, you make it like this: FUNC: (do someting)..."
09:00:30 <esowiki> [[OOOOL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56452&oldid=56451 * A * (+9) /* How to output */
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11:18:43 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Yhara * New user account
11:45:11 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56453&oldid=56359 * Ais523 * (-304) Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/A|A]] ([[User talk:A|talk]]) to last revision by [[User:Ais523|Ais523]]
11:45:50 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/delete]] revision * Ais523 * Ais523 changed visibility of 2 revisions on page [[Brainfuck]]: content hidden: Copyright violation: contains content copied from Stack Exchange (https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/163590)
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13:17:40 <mehrdad> is there a channel about esoterism/
13:26:23 <HackEso> mehrdad: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <https://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
13:28:40 <mehrdad> Taneb: where do people talk about esotericm?
13:29:16 <izabera> taneb why don't you come to the go club on sunday
13:30:45 <Taneb> izabera: go the programming language, go the board game, or go the verb?
13:31:26 <izabera> well you know, it's still a pub and they have beer
13:32:02 <Taneb> Third excuse: I'm going to be playing board games in London that afternoon and I don't know when I'll get back
13:32:11 <Taneb> Other than those three reasons, I'd love to
13:32:15 <Taneb> It's pretty easy for me to get to
13:32:44 <izabera> it's on sunday evening every sunday
13:33:39 <izabera> come to the old ticket office this evening?
13:33:53 <izabera> i'll be there with a few friends from work
13:39:10 <Taneb> That's more doable
13:53:29 <Taneb> Is the old ticket office small enough that you'll recognize the approximately six foot tall (183cm) person with messy brown hair and thick eyebrows walking in the door
13:59:13 <izabera> come in with a rubiks cube in your hand
13:59:51 <izabera> too snowdeny or not enough rubiks cubes available?
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14:27:43 <esowiki> [[Nameless language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56454&oldid=37337 * BMO * (+391) hello world example wasn't valid, added infobox & reference implementation
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14:55:41 <esowiki> [[MediaWiki:Common.js]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=56455 * Ais523 * (+203) the http:// URLs don't work well due to caching effects; if we visit the site in a sufficiently modern browser, do a JS redirect to https://
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15:12:38 <imode> so I retrofitted my interpreter to select the first applicable rule in the ruleset.
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15:14:31 <ZM> ais523: thank you so much for that
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15:23:36 <FireFly> Not presently, although have been in the UK fairly frequently the past.. half year or so
15:23:45 <FireFly> haven't been to Cambridge though
15:23:56 <Taneb> FireFly: you should, it's where I am
15:24:22 <Taneb> Or possibly that's a reason to avoid it
15:24:37 <FireFly> You should attend freenode live in november :D
15:24:55 <Taneb> Bristol's annoying to get to :/
15:25:17 <Taneb> I tried to go to the last one
15:25:34 <Taneb> Well, Cambridge is hard to get to unless you're in Cambridge, in which case it's hard to escape
15:25:34 <FireFly> EasyJet has a direct flight to Bristol nowadays
15:26:01 <Taneb> Stansted Airport's like half an hour from Cambridge by train
15:26:37 <FireFly> But yes, should visit Cambridge someday
15:26:59 <FireFly> I know enough people in the UK that I kinda want to make a tour de great britain..
15:27:05 <Taneb> I hear there's a group that play Go every Sunday
15:27:29 <Taneb> Is fizzie still in London?
15:29:15 <FireFly> My next UK visit will be in august/september, but.. wrong part of the country
15:29:32 <FireFly> (over by the border to wales basically, for EMFcamp)
15:30:31 <Taneb> A few of my friends are going to that
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15:31:25 <FireFly> I went to 34c3 last year, hopefully EMF is just as fun, hehe
15:31:26 <izabera> in london there are several go centers
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15:36:14 <FireFly> izabera: ona visit in the UK, or?
15:46:15 <izabera> been living here since november
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16:01:02 <imode> trying to find the shortest path between string rewriting and a usable programming language is difficult.
16:02:18 <Taneb> Maybe it'll go through Perl
16:02:35 <imode> it actually might go through SNOBOL.
16:13:03 <FireFly> you should also visit fnlive :p
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16:30:28 <imode> there has to be a shorter path than implementing RAM + a given instruction set.
17:20:48 <zzo38> I have written a tag system implementation in SQL; it is an easy Turing-complete system to implement using the recursive WITH clause in SQL.
17:21:22 <zzo38> WITH A(T) AS (SELECT '211' UNION ALL SELECT SUBSTR(T,3) || CASE SUBSTR(T,1,1) WHEN '1' THEN '3321H' WHEN '2' THEN '331' WHEN '3' THEN '33' END FROM A) SELECT T FROM A WHERE SUBSTR(T,1,1) = 'H' LIMIT 1;
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17:45:40 <imode> building expressiveness from nothing is hard.
17:47:54 <fizzie> There's a bunch of people here who work in London and live in Cambridge and commute daily, it can't be that hard to get to.
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17:49:09 <fizzie> Of course this place is right next to King's Cross, which is pretty optimal for Cambridgeing to/from.
17:57:49 <fizzie> Whoa, I think this was the first HTTP 451 "Unavailable For Legal Reasons" error I've gotten.
17:57:58 <fizzie> "We recognize you are attempting to access this website from a country belonging to the European Economic Area (EEA) including the EU which enforces the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) and therefore access cannot be granted at this time."
17:58:23 <fizzie> I guess that's one way of being GDPR compliant.
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18:20:49 <zzo38> What are the requirements for GDPR?
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18:45:03 <imode> what's more general than a hypergraph?
18:57:02 <zzo38> http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/heromesh.ui/raw/exec.c?name=61678b6bb7fd8f9a32756361b39a5d4211cbde81 Do the pfunlink() and pflink() and objalloc() functions look like OK to you? Do you have suggestions to improve it if it is wrong?
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19:50:29 <esowiki> [[User:DMC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56456&oldid=54862 * DMC * (+143)
19:50:50 <esowiki> [[User:DMC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56457&oldid=56456 * DMC * (+0)
20:21:56 * Taneb has now met izabera
20:32:46 <Cale> `smlist 470 http://www.supermegacomics.com/index.php?i=470
20:32:47 <HackEso> smlist 470 http://www.supermegacomics.com/index.php?i=470: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy Cale
20:44:14 <shachaf> Didn't I list this one already?
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22:38:22 <esowiki> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=56458&oldid=56162 * HereToAnnoy * (+20) U - Added User:Language
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