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00:17:50 <lambdabot> ENVA 272350Z 11015KT CAVOK 26/15 Q1020 RMK WIND 670FT 13012KT
00:18:08 <oerjan> this is seriously unnatural for trondheim at midnight tdnh
00:19:58 <oerjan> it also means i cannot get the apartment cooled down properly before tomorrow starts heating it again :(
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01:39:11 <esowiki> [[Talk:Stun Step]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57065&oldid=57060 * Oerjan * (+1086) /* Ideas for TC proof */ new section
01:44:47 <esowiki> [[Talk:Stun Step]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57066&oldid=57065 * Oerjan * (+383) /* Reversible Brainfuck */ Observation
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03:40:21 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Hakerh400 * New user account
03:50:59 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57067&oldid=57052 * Hakerh400 * (+142) /* Introductions */
04:01:39 <zzo38> How to determine in Linux if the current time is a leap second?
04:23:38 <imode> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/26202730/how-to-find-out-if-the-linux-kernel-will-insert-a-leap-second-at-the-end-of-the
04:24:10 <imode> zzo38: the above ought to solve your problem.
04:24:14 <imode> there's a flag that you can check.
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04:44:04 <zzo38> I am concerned only about the current time when the program is running. However that suggests that you need NTP to figure out if there even is a leap second at all.
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04:58:33 <oerjan> . o O ( maybe the only way to check must take more than a second, so it's unsolvable )
05:00:05 <esowiki> [[Functional()]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=57068 * Hakerh400 * (+10438) Added a new language: "Functional()"
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05:10:21 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57069&oldid=57044 * Hakerh400 * (+19) Added "Functional()"
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05:14:18 <esowiki> [[Functional()]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57070&oldid=57068 * Hakerh400 * (-1)
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07:54:16 <esowiki> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57071&oldid=57011 * Fogity * (+773) Added turing completeness section.
08:20:23 <esowiki> [[Talk:]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=57072 * Plokmijnuhby * (+225) Created page with "The fizzbuzz program uses in a way that is outside the specification, i.e. <name><definition> to define a variable. Is this intended behaviour? ~~~"
08:32:08 <esowiki> [[Talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57073&oldid=57072 * Fogity * (+131)
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08:33:54 <esowiki> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57074&oldid=57071 * Fogity * (+49) /* Language */ (clarified param count)
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12:12:07 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57075&oldid=57069 * GDavid * (-10)
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12:45:19 <wob_jonas> zzo38: are you trying to make an esolang similar to http://esolangs.org/wiki/2014 ?
12:47:05 <wob_jonas> or are you merely in charge of precise timing for some delicate astronomy or physics or spacefaring project?
12:51:18 <wob_jonas> and yeah, looking into ntp demons is the right thing for this. the linux kernel serves timestamps either as unix epoches, which can't represent leap seconds, so they're faked by fuzzing time to go a bit slower during a longer period before,
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12:51:52 <wob_jonas> or monotone timestamps, which do go steadily even near leap seconds, but aren't anchored to UTC or anything other than an arbitrary point at bootup.
12:52:51 <wob_jonas> The ntp demon gets the precise time and up to date future leap second info from a GPS receiver or from some other ntp server on the network, and so it's what knows about leap seconds and handles all this.
12:54:29 <wob_jonas> Most linux programs don't care about precise *absolute* timekeeping, the approximate (to a second, in the fortunate case when ntp is working well and you have network connection, or to a minute otherwise if you set time by hand) calendar time and a precise but relative timekeeping is enough for them.
12:57:38 <wob_jonas> There's some kernel interface between ntp and the kernel where ntp can both set time and tell the kernel to slow down or speed up time a bit, which is used not only for leap seconds, but because the local clock can be inaccurate.
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13:18:56 <wob_jonas> s/local clock/local hardware clock/
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13:24:41 <fizzie> Looks like there's still a little while to go before the AI singularity: https://zem.fi/tmp/ikea.png
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13:36:40 <int-e> . o O ( "you have made a simple door very happy today." )
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13:42:25 <fizzie> int-e: Part 2 didn't go much better either: https://zem.fi/tmp/ikea2.png
13:48:06 <int-e> Heh it's not that this cannot happen with humans in a busy call center on the other end... but usually if you call again, you talk to a different person. With AI you'll have the same AI, over and over again... fun :)
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13:56:36 <fizzie> I didn't really get a very comprehensive answer from the human webchat either, so I guess that's fair.
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14:36:42 <mroman> Taneb: http://mroman.ch/ESOSC/stds/ESOSC-2014-1/ANB.txt <- the assigned number blocks
14:36:59 <mroman> @tell nortti http://mroman.ch/ESOSC/stds/ESOSC-2014-1/ANB.txt <- the assigned number blocks.
14:37:56 <mroman> also: http://esosc.mroman.ch/stds/ESOSC-2014-1/ESOSC-2014-1-2.html is still up for approval :)
14:38:01 <mroman> hasn't been formally approved yet
14:39:26 <mroman> unrevocable should probably spell irrevocable :)
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15:03:25 <zzo38> It should be fixed so that plain text versions of all documents can be downloaded
15:03:41 <zzo38> wob_jonas: Astronomy
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15:41:15 <mroman> yeh I'm working on a markdown that supports that.
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16:11:16 <mroman> you can just click "Save page as" *.txt in most browsers anyway.
16:15:00 <mroman> html is just more versatile
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16:21:19 <zzo38> mroman: Still is not how I mean; I mean if you are using an external program to download it.
16:39:50 <int-e> just use lynx -dump :P
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18:26:20 <zzo38> I was writiing some ideas about Scientific Role Playing System. I have considered to not have any character definition points at all and instead you can just define it whatever you want to do, with a few restrictions. http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/scirps.ui/wiki?name=Notes/Pointless What are your opinion about such thing?
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18:49:45 <esowiki> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57076&oldid=57074 * Fogity * (+76) /* Example programs */ Added a palindrome program
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21:54:35 <wob_jonas> zzo38: nice. can you tell me a bit more?
21:58:54 <wob_jonas> About what kind of astronomy you're doing for which you need to get the sub-second precise calendar time on a linux computer.
21:59:51 <zzo38> So far I can just document that that function doesn't work during a leap second.
22:00:56 <zzo38> It is a SQLite extension to use Swiss Ephemeris. The JULIANDAY_UT1 and JULIANDAY_ET functions are similar to the built-in JULIANDAY function but use the algorithms from Swiss Ephemeris instead of those of SQLite (it also uses different arguments).
22:01:17 <zzo38> If the function is called with no arguments then the current date/time will be used, but it won't work properly during leap seconds.
22:01:25 <wob_jonas> zzo38: but with those, you usually want to compute values for any time, not the current time in particular
22:02:01 <wob_jonas> I mean, I don't just want to know the moon phase right now, I might want to know what the moon phase will be two days from now, and I don't need it at sub-second accuracy
22:02:03 <zzo38> Yes, I know, it isn't necessarily the current time you want. But if you specify no arguments then the current time is used
22:02:31 <wob_jonas> Will you publish this code by the way? I'll be a bit interested
22:02:54 <wob_jonas> Not specifically because I want to use them from SQLite, but as a good example for how to use some of Swiss Ephemeris
22:02:58 <zzo38> Yes it will be published
22:03:23 <wob_jonas> I'm only interested about the Sun, Moon and Venus though, not other planets.
22:04:32 <zzo38> That is fine, although it still computes for others too (since I think they are all in the same file anyways). If you do not have the ephemeris files it will still work, but it will not be as accurate as if you do have the files.
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22:16:39 <zzo38> I also wrote a library to use Swiss Ephemeris with Node.js, however it requires use of N-API, and might not be compatible with the latest version
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