←2018-08-02 2018-08-03 2018-08-04→ ↑2018 ↑all
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00:11:14 <esowiki> [[Looping counter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57164&oldid=56736 * A * (-8) My description is too complicated.
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00:42:23 <esowiki> [[Looping counter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57165&oldid=57164 * A * (+196) Include more understandable Brainfuck implementation
00:48:29 <Sgeo> I should totally try to design my own Tcl OO system
00:48:49 <shachaf> Why?
00:49:12 <Sgeo> Someone on Twitter reminded me Tcl existed, and I have it stuck in my head now
00:49:30 <Sgeo> The model of objects where they're just strings that know what to do via {*} fascinates me
00:49:48 <Sgeo> e.g. {*}$someObject somemethod
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00:50:05 <Sgeo> $someObject could just be a lambda that switches on the somemethod argument
00:50:26 <shachaf> Why not make an OO system for Ada?
00:50:39 <Sgeo> No need to worry about garbage collection in this model, unlike other models where each object is a command, and Tcl can't just clean up commands
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00:50:53 <shachaf> Also I'm thinking lambdas are a little bit scow for control flow.
00:51:00 <shachaf> In most languages, at least.
00:51:10 <shachaf> This is mostly unrelated to what you're saying.
00:51:37 * oerjan sics GL Steele on shachaf
00:51:38 <shachaf> Ruby has a special case to make things like this work: def f(a); a.each {|x| return true if x == 5 }; return false; end
00:52:13 <shachaf> Where that's a lambda that can return from the scope it was created in. If you return a lambda like that, it fails at runtime.
00:52:24 <shachaf> (You could also make it use continuations, but...)
00:52:37 <Sgeo> Tcl control flow is string and eval based.
00:53:21 <shachaf> Is there anything that uses lambdas for control flow for this sort of thing? How does it work?
00:54:53 <imode> I should learn Tcl. seems the interpreters for it are pretty complicated though.
00:56:18 <esowiki> [[Looping counter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57166&oldid=57165 * A * (-4) /* Examples */
00:56:43 <Sgeo> I suggest learning it properly via tutorials or other documentation, rather than via osmosis of real life examples. It's the sort of language where things one might not expect to make a difference can
00:57:17 <imode> how would it compare with something like forth, which is similarly untyped.
00:57:35 <imode> mainly interested in the implementation of the language. can I write a Tcl in a weekend?
00:58:10 <Sgeo> I'm not an implement a language person. I think it would be simple to implement the syntax rules, at least.
01:00:44 <imode> iamcalledbob and A should be banned from the wiki, they've created a lot of junk articles. cmv.
01:05:55 <esowiki> [[Looping counter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57167&oldid=57166 * A * (+122) /* Examples */
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01:08:18 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57168&oldid=57160 * Oerjan * (+0) ginorst + cdeeginnors
01:08:36 <esowiki> [[Looping counter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57169&oldid=57167 * A * (-122)
01:08:47 <oerjan> hm esowiki isn't ... oh
01:09:25 <oerjan> HackEso isn't responding, though.
01:09:34 <imode> like there's literally a language called "String rewriting paradigm".
01:09:48 <imode> that qualifies as a stub. someone's trolling.
01:09:54 <oerjan> oh wait that's caught by my pribate +R
01:09:59 <oerjan> stupid stuff
01:10:03 <oerjan> `echo hi
01:10:11 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan.
01:10:22 <shachaf> It seems that the spam has stopped for now.
01:10:34 <shachaf> At least for a few hours.
01:10:43 <imode> mmm.
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01:11:25 <esowiki> [[Looping counter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57170&oldid=57169 * A * (-5) /* Examples */
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01:13:45 <oerjan> `echo hi are you there
01:13:46 <HackEso> hi are you there
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01:14:23 <zzo38> wob_jonas: Yes, approximately that is what a yard is. More precisely, it is three feet.
01:14:26 <oerjan> > "is lambdabot registered?"
01:14:27 <lambdabot> "is lambdabot registered?"
01:14:29 <oerjan> yep
01:14:31 <shachaf> Since lambdas don't seem work very well for control constructs without hacks or continuations, how should user-defined control constructs work?
01:14:46 <oerjan> fizzie: it might be a good idea to register them, just in case.
01:15:06 <shachaf> One answer is to scrap early return etc. and make people use Either or something if they want it. Which is almost back to using (delimited) continuations.
01:15:20 <shachaf> Another answer is lisp-style macros, I guess.
01:15:22 <zzo38> To check if someone is registered with NickServ you can use the NS INFO command.
01:15:32 <shachaf> Are there more standard answers?
01:15:45 <oerjan> shachaf: i think i'm not going to open the floodgates without some information that there's a more network-wide solution.
01:15:51 <shachaf> OK.
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01:16:17 <imode> has this channel been hit by the spambots as well?
01:16:21 <imode> haven't been around.
01:16:29 <zzo38> (The cloak I suppose also reveals being registered with NickServ, although it is possible to be registered and not cloaked.)
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01:20:27 <oerjan> imode: yep
01:20:42 <oerjan> hm fungot isn't even here to test
01:21:05 <oerjan> although i guess it would also be on zem.fi
01:22:38 <oerjan> imode: so it's now set +q $~a which also gives some of the bots problems
01:23:59 <oerjan> and also we all seem to have been set +R which means the bots cannot reach us in private either
01:24:23 <imode> that's good, I suppose.
01:24:33 <imode> you have to wonder what the dude's motives are...
01:24:42 <imode> psychotic, he is.
01:24:47 <zzo38> You can unset the +R mode on yourself if you want to receive the message, or use ACCEPT command
01:24:51 <oerjan> oh i wasn't thinking about the spam bots when i said "bots", but our trusty channel ones
01:25:09 <imode> ah.
01:25:13 <imode> not so good then. :P
01:26:10 <oerjan> so i added an exception for fizzie's domain, although he might want to register them too (i guess that adds extra hassle when logging in)
01:26:35 <Sgeo> https://wiki.tcl.tk/10225 is the sort of thing that scares me about Tcl
01:31:32 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57171&oldid=56365 * A * (+122) /* swap x, y */
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01:37:40 <oerjan> that Preprocessor proof is so obviously wrong, sigh
01:38:11 <oerjan> (he also misunderstood my proof that he's trying to base it on, although i guess the comment about 8 fixes that.)
01:41:20 <oerjan> ok maybe that's sane if e can actually mutate variables, but then it's not much of a CPP derivative...
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01:44:40 <oerjan> the way in which mediawiki's diffs can completely fail to match identical parts because of slight spacing differences is really annoying.
01:44:54 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57172&oldid=57171 * A * (+28) /* x = not x (bitwise) */
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01:44:57 <oerjan> (looking at ObCode)
01:45:25 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57173&oldid=57172 * A * (+41) /* x = not x (bitwise) */
01:46:12 <esowiki> [[ObCode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57174&oldid=57134 * Oerjan * (-1) rm newline that breaks the stupid diff
01:46:54 <oerjan> ah better
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01:50:01 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57175&oldid=57173 * A * (+1) /* x = not x (bitwise) */
01:50:45 <esowiki> [[ObCode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57176&oldid=57174 * Oerjan * (+12) wikify sections
01:51:22 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57177&oldid=57175 * A * (+65) /* x = not x (bitwise) */
01:52:12 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57178&oldid=57177 * A * (+5) /* Wrapping */
01:52:52 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57179&oldid=57178 * A * (-3) /* swap x, y */
01:53:28 <shachaf> imo reban zem.fi hth
01:55:03 <oerjan> well in obvious hindsight...
01:57:21 <oerjan> hm why are there esowiki announcements in the logs...
01:57:32 <oerjan> perhaps it's actually supposed to be registered.
01:57:47 <oerjan> or maybe it doesn't get quieted unless it rejoins...
02:00:36 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57180&oldid=57179 * A * (+90) /* x = not x (boolean, logical) */
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02:08:45 <oerjan> hm this is weird. there's a message from esowiki in the logs from several minutes after i joined that i haven't seen.
02:09:09 <oerjan> oh wait
02:09:16 <oerjan> it's also the logging bot isn't it?
02:09:28 <shachaf> oh man
02:09:29 <oerjan> so it's been faking it :P
02:09:30 <shachaf> pranked
02:11:18 <oerjan> indeed, the logs have my own edit that got me wondering what was up
02:11:34 <oerjan> CASE CLOSED
02:11:48 <mahaa> A good affair, Bravo!
02:12:06 * oerjan bows
02:15:48 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57181&oldid=57180 * A * (+30) /* x = x - y */
02:16:49 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57182&oldid=57181 * A * (-30) /* Non-wrapping */
02:17:17 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57183&oldid=57182 * A * (+29) /* Wrapping */
02:17:44 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57184&oldid=57183 * A * (-19) /* x = x + y */
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02:59:47 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57185&oldid=57184 * A * (+77) /* Input a decimal number */
03:10:03 <shachaf> Go and C++17 support initializers for if, as in "if (int x = f(); x > 0) { ... }". Is there any language that supports initializers for while, as in "while (int c = getchar(); c != EOF) { ... }"?
03:11:17 <izabera> surely you can do that with c macros
03:12:15 <shachaf> Well, yes.
03:12:40 <shachaf> I mean, y'know, sort of. With all the usual caveats about C macros.
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03:13:48 <pikhq> I don't know. I mean, you can get the same effect with for loops, but...
03:14:03 <shachaf> Can you, without writing "getchar()" twice?
03:14:26 <pikhq> Well, no.
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03:23:41 <Sgeo> proc lambda {arguments body args} {
03:23:41 <Sgeo> return [list ::apply [list $arguments $body] {*}$args]
03:23:41 <Sgeo> }
03:23:54 <Sgeo> https://github.com/tcltk/tcllib/blob/master/modules/lambda/lambda.tcl
03:28:15 <pikhq> Oh, right, I forgot about Tcl.
03:28:29 <pikhq> Tcl is, uh, decidedly odd.
03:29:19 <pikhq> Though I can't remember, doesn't while in Tcl execute the condition in the calling stack frame?
03:29:51 <pikhq> i.e. basically like it did an uplevel expr $cond
03:30:55 <Sgeo> uplevel 1 I think
03:31:23 <Sgeo> I think I remember you talking about liking Tcl? I liked it for a while until I found myself incapable of writing programs that don't memory leak.
03:31:32 <Sgeo> Mutable locations don't get garbage collected.
03:31:52 <Sgeo> (Since every mutable thing has to have a name)
03:31:56 <pikhq> Just because I like Tcl doesn't mean I can't admit it's decidedly odd.
03:32:03 <pikhq> In fact, its oddness is part of why I like it. :)
03:33:48 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57186&oldid=57185 * A * (+108) /* Summing 1~n */
03:53:43 <esowiki> [[FizzBuzz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57187&oldid=57158 * A * (+161) Add Python implementation
03:57:40 <esowiki> [[FizzBuzz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57188&oldid=57187 * A * (+1) Shorten My Code
04:00:52 <esowiki> [[FizzBuzz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57189&oldid=57188 * A * (-2) /* Examples */
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06:12:31 <esowiki> [[Preprocessor]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57190&oldid=57150 * A * (-8) Well, since there is no changing, it is turing-complete.
06:15:37 <esowiki> [[Preprocessor]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57191&oldid=57190 * A * (+28) Only 2 commands, it is a Turing-tarpit.
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06:27:44 <esowiki> [[Preprocessor]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57192&oldid=57191 * A * (-1) Uh, operation is wrong
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06:28:35 <esowiki> [[Preprocessor]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57193&oldid=57192 * A * (+45)
06:31:42 <esowiki> [[Preprocessor]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57194&oldid=57193 * A * (-7)
06:33:23 <esowiki> [[Preprocessor]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57195&oldid=57194 * A * (-6)
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06:38:03 <esowiki> [[Preprocessor]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57196&oldid=57195 * A * (+7)
06:40:51 <esowiki> [[Preprocessor]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57197&oldid=57196 * A * (-94)
06:49:23 <esowiki> [[Preprocessor]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57198&oldid=57197 * A * (-26)
06:58:23 <esowiki> [[FizzBuzz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57199&oldid=57189 * Zzo38 * (+155) TeX
07:00:06 <esowiki> [[Post-preprocessor]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=57200 * A * (+1964) Copy my text first...
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07:32:36 <esowiki> [[Post-preprocessor]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57201&oldid=57200 * A * (-1964) Blanked the page
07:33:23 <esowiki> [[Preprocessor]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57202&oldid=57198 * A * (-144) Examples are useless
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07:37:50 <esowiki> [[Preprocessor]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57203&oldid=57202 * A * (+22) Else can be represented by if
07:46:45 <esowiki> [[Post-preprocessor]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57204&oldid=57201 * A * (+1842)
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07:54:14 <esowiki> [[Post-preprocessor]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57205&oldid=57204 * A * (-125)
07:54:33 <esowiki> [[Post-preprocessor]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57206&oldid=57205 * A * (+9)
07:56:59 <esowiki> [[Post-preprocessor]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57207&oldid=57206 * A * (-2)
07:57:27 <esowiki> [[User:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57208&oldid=57163 * A * (+26)
07:59:16 <esowiki> [[Post-preprocessor]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57209&oldid=57207 * A * (+9) /* Syntax */
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08:02:57 <esowiki> [[Post-preprocessor]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57210&oldid=57209 * A * (-19)
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08:28:57 <esowiki> [[Post-preprocessor]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57211&oldid=57210 * A * (+75)
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08:29:30 <fizzie> @tell oerjan Good point, I didn't even consider them bots.
08:29:30 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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08:42:04 <esowiki> [[Post-preprocessor]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57212&oldid=57211 * A * (+1107)
08:46:01 <esowiki> [[Post-preprocessor]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57213&oldid=57212 * A * (-600)
08:46:47 <esowiki> [[Preprocessor]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57214&oldid=57203 * A * (-85)
08:48:04 <esowiki> [[Preprocessor]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57215&oldid=57214 * A * (+0)
08:48:28 <int-e> Can I say that I prefer quality over quantity when it comes to esolangs?
09:10:03 <Taneb> int-e: you can
09:26:52 <fizzie> Huh, what's happened to fungot?
09:26:59 <fizzie> Oh, right, I restarted the machine.
09:29:06 <fizzie> I have a bouncer in front it now, so when it joins, it's not going to actually be responsive yet. Just thought I'd warn you.
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09:30:41 <fizzie> fungot: Feeling all normal again?
09:30:42 <fungot> fizzie: and we can multiply quantum states with numbers.)
09:30:55 <fizzie> Subsystems nominal, I guess.
09:31:23 <shachaf> fungot: what kinds of numbers twh
09:31:24 <fungot> shachaf: like international paper sizes?' thread. one of his friends to build an entire scheme program and a scheme list is kind of weird. even though that " should" visit espoo today, since i don't notice any fault with the gui
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10:00:33 <fizzie> Later it turns out the secret to solving noise issues in quantum computing was multiplying quantum states with international paper sizes.
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10:07:46 <Taneb> If you could get an A3-sized qubit I think a lot of things would work differently
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10:15:29 <Phantom_Hoover> hey they finally found an elementary knightship in the game of life
10:18:05 <Taneb> I know what some of those words mean! That sounds neat
10:18:22 <Taneb> (what's a knightship? what does it mean for one to be elementary?)
10:20:13 <Phantom_Hoover> knightship = travels along a vector other than (1,0) and (1,1) (modulo rotation/reflection ofc.)
10:21:00 <Phantom_Hoover> elementary = not a giant million cell machine engineered to build a copy of itself along a certain vector then take itself apart
10:21:50 <Phantom_Hoover> it's predictably very weird looking http://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/Sir_Robin
10:22:24 <esowiki> [[Obcode]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=57216 * Wastl * (+20) make redirect to ObCode
10:28:43 <esowiki> [[Functoin]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=57217 * A * (+695) Created page with "It is inspired by [[Post-preprocessor]]. ==Syntax(= command)== f(x)=1/x`function` f(a)=`Put your code here`,f() (a!=0) `nothing here` (a==0)`if statement` a=0`variabl..."
10:29:27 <esowiki> [[User:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57218&oldid=57208 * A * (+14)
10:33:25 <Taneb> That *is* neat
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12:20:08 <int-e> `paste wisdom/limerick
12:20:09 <HackEso> https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/file/tip/wisdom/limerick
12:21:07 <int-e> `learn The password of the month is alphanumer1c.
12:21:09 <HackEso> Relearned 'password': The password of the month is alphanumer1c.
12:24:45 <int-e> `' ꙮ
12:24:46 <HackEso> 1133) <shachaf> A Swede who was in #esoteric / Thought his rhymes were a little generic. / "I might use, in my prose, / ꙮs, / But my poetry's alphanumeric."
12:24:56 <int-e> So that's where it is.
12:25:17 <int-e> `wc -l quotes
12:25:17 <HackEso> wc: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try 'wc --help' for more information.
12:25:21 <int-e> `` wc -l quotes
12:25:22 <HackEso> 1325 quotes
12:25:34 <int-e> `` tail -2 quotes
12:25:35 <HackEso> ​<zzo38> Please look at the new [[BackTurn]] program language see if it is good or else what other comment/question/complaint. \ <Aearnus> i'm sending this from within a computer on minecraft
12:37:05 <fizzie> int-e: https://zem.fi/tmp/quotes.png
12:38:03 <fizzie> Source: hg log -T "{rev} {node|short}\n" quotes | tac | while read rev hash; do printf "%s\t%s\n" $rev $(hg cat -r $rev quotes | wc -l); done | tee ~/tmp/quotes.csv
12:39:14 <fizzie> A time axis might be nice as well.
12:41:44 <fizzie> ...huh, I didn't actually use the commit hash, and didn't notice because -r accepted the revision number as well.
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12:50:37 <fizzie> By date: https://zem.fi/tmp/quotes2.png
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13:03:43 <int-e> Well I still think that the limit should be 1336. :P
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16:21:57 <shachaf> `olist 1132
16:21:58 <HackEso> olist 1132: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
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16:49:56 <Sgeo> *slaps roof of HackEgo* this bad boy can fit so much olist in it
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16:55:06 <shachaf> `? olist
16:55:08 <HackEso> olist is update notification for the webcomic Order of the Stick. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/ootslatest.html
16:55:21 <shachaf> Does HackEgo have a roof?
17:07:56 <int-e> I sure hope so; computers get even more irritable in the rain than most people.
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20:48:29 <zzo38> I made this computer game recently: http://zzo38computer.org/GAMES/MEGAPANE.ZIP
20:52:13 <zzo38> Do you like this?
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21:01:05 <int-e> hmm it's not entirely terrible :P
21:07:32 <int-e> What's that real number though? http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/mp.png
21:09:12 <zzo38> The ratio of score to rows.
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21:11:49 <int-e> ah
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21:31:43 <shachaf> zzo38: I can't figure out how to make dosbox work well with my high-DPI screen.
21:31:47 <shachaf> So the font is too small.
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21:50:24 <int-e> shachaf: I have something like this in my .dosbox/dosbox-0.74.conf: http://paste.debian.net/1036624/ (those are the settings that I modified)
21:52:46 <shachaf> Oh, I tried similar settings before but not quite those ones.
21:53:02 <int-e> (this may still be rather small for you but you can adjust the window size accordingly; keeping it 4:3 and multiples of 640x480 are probably a good idea)
21:53:57 <shachaf> It's a sufficient size.
21:54:54 <shachaf> Is there a language similar to C or C++ that has every function taking one argument, which might be a struct/tuple containing multiple values?
21:57:06 <zzo38> I don't know of any.
21:59:03 <shachaf> I'm wondering how to make it work with various things, like named arguments and varargs (and default arguments?).
21:59:44 <shachaf> Of course you can have a calling convention that turns this into the regular C ABI.
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