< 1533515113 390005 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: ANIMATED CHICKEN < 1533515319 723909 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client > 1533515657 751279 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57243&oldid=57242 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (-59) 10Boop. < 1533515754 959379 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qnqsjqdbxfanrzad QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1533515820 497942 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533515906 489669 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1533516894 798106 :Selavi8!~Selavi@ADijon-652-1-111-104.w90-56.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1533516944 247773 :Selavi8!~Selavi@ADijon-652-1-111-104.w90-56.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)) < 1533517660 712828 :NightMonkey5!~NightMonk@184.170.0.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533518009 55830 :NightMonkey5!~NightMonk@184.170.0.35 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1533518340 603040 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2 < 1533519176 814737 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1533519357 171930 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1533519520 684406 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1533520027 501504 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1533520265 266612 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell wob_jonas it doesn't count as a balcony because it's not protruding. < 1533520265 327083 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1533520371 570501 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i stopped gnawing my toes some time during childhood. never completely managed to stop gnawing on my fingers, alas. < 1533520447 156604 :OGF14!~OGF@171.13.116.99 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533520480 880137 :Shibe8!~Shibe@184.170.23.93 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533520571 651260 :OGF14!~OGF@171.13.116.99 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533520835 430406 :Shibe8!~Shibe@184.170.23.93 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1533523892 503911 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1533525144 266188 :urdh8!~urdh@123.20.41.68 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533525156 546253 :urdh8!~urdh@123.20.41.68 QUIT :K-Lined < 1533525211 53406 :ZexaronS!~ZexaronS@121.63.62.134 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533525515 397849 :ZexaronS!~ZexaronS@121.63.62.134 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1533528743 223181 :moondoggy8!~moondoggy@27.16.236.95 JOIN :#esoteric > 1533528969 808770 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Turing machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57244&oldid=50650 5* 03A 5* (+72) 10Don't forget that there's an online simulator. < 1533528997 609141 :moondoggy8!~moondoggy@27.16.236.95 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533529004 668262 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to determine with Xlib if a window was created using this client? < 1533529486 588731 :niko22!~niko@156.219.232.77 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533529568 126595 :niko22!~niko@156.219.232.77 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533530436 112566 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1533530682 607761 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57245&oldid=57218 5* 03A 5* (+433) 10 > 1533530744 244234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57246&oldid=57245 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10Spelling.. > 1533531924 258185 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Metafractran14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=57247 5* 03Challenger5 5* (+839) 10Created page with "'''Metafractran''' is a derivative of [[Fractran]] created by [[User:Challenger5]] in which all program files are irrelevant. Rather than being specified by a program file, co..." > 1533532051 554134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Challenger514]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57248&oldid=54233 5* 03Challenger5 5* (+128) 10 > 1533532120 141385 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Metafractran14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57249&oldid=57247 5* 03Challenger5 5* (+42) 10 < 1533532587 840886 :codex2064!~codex2064@ip68-12-152-220.ok.ok.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533532675 16583 :codex2064!~codex2064@ip68-12-152-220.ok.ok.cox.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533533253 8951 :bitch2!~bitch@185.30.27.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533533297 382178 :mist8!~mist@FL1-221-171-61-64.aki.mesh.ad.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1533533314 579394 :mist8!~mist@FL1-221-171-61-64.aki.mesh.ad.jp QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1533533419 310536 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533533470 395257 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533533602 9232 :bitch2!~bitch@185.30.27.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1533533735 405032 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1533534255 931306 :hsiktas12!~hsiktas@168.232.130.239 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533534566 221206 :hsiktas12!~hsiktas@168.232.130.239 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1533535196 609615 :hipp!~hipp@190-37-21-249.dyn.dsl.cantv.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533535269 618857 :hipp!~hipp@190-37-21-249.dyn.dsl.cantv.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533536243 319224 :SerpentSpeech!~SerpentSp@unnum-78-27-171-175.domashka.kiev.ua JOIN :#esoteric < 1533536349 10906 :SerpentSpeech!~SerpentSp@unnum-78-27-171-175.domashka.kiev.ua QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533536665 281067 :yaewa!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533536667 765040 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533536696 182654 :yaewa!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533536742 277001 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1533536829 956997 :phoe4!~phoe@softbank060127093074.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533536921 4381 :phoe4!~phoe@softbank060127093074.bbtec.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533536963 713811 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1533537397 369952 :nlsun!~nlsun@110.138.95.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533537401 854406 :nlsun!~nlsun@110.138.95.41 NICK :Guest4636 < 1533537412 47898 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533537730 569429 :Guest4636!~nlsun@110.138.95.41 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1533538655 366313 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1533538727 699037 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533538814 97708 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I made up a SQLite extension for displaying pictures on a X server. < 1533539211 328075 :ReimuHakurei3!~ReimuHaku@60.22.218.162 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533539330 562170 :ReimuHakurei3!~ReimuHaku@60.22.218.162 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533539771 47247 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fllgrykjvnkatpjh QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1533539848 663987 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57250&oldid=57243 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (-72) 10/* Instruction Syntax */ Fixed a little error. < 1533540351 511065 :pppingme27!~pppingme@95.235.98.138 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533540463 975180 :pppingme27!~pppingme@95.235.98.138 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533541040 183932 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a JOIN :#esoteric < 1533541040 770897 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a QUIT :Changing host < 1533541040 770947 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1533541400 997272 :sn0wmonster10!~sn0wmonst@37.114.184.119 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533541774 19082 :sn0wmonster10!~sn0wmonst@37.114.184.119 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1533541803 390265 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533542138 887356 :kasa!~kasa@111.95.25.215 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533542454 255602 :kasa!~kasa@111.95.25.215 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds > 1533542483 865275 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57251&oldid=57250 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (+0) 10/* S */ Update to String Get to match String Put. < 1533542941 577496 :Lumpi27!~Lumpi@152.0.5.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533543147 276676 :Lumpi27!~Lumpi@152.0.5.107 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533543809 867589 :pinPoint12!~pinPoint@194.146.228.70 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533543840 235952 :pinPoint12!~pinPoint@194.146.228.70 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533543947 587334 :Thanks!~Thanks@61.80.135.19 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533544036 774881 :Thanks!~Thanks@61.80.135.19 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533544128 75227 :cwre!~cwre@i114-180-56-190.s42.a014.ap.plala.or.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1533544163 857655 :cwre!~cwre@i114-180-56-190.s42.a014.ap.plala.or.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533545661 257086 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you going to write the specification of Von Neumann's 29-state cellular automaton in esolang wiki? < 1533546013 345313 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533546213 637513 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1533546381 1827 :manish23!~manish@95-43-62-59.ip.btc-net.bg JOIN :#esoteric > 1533546432 854602 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ZZT-Flip14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57252&oldid=57061 5* 03Zzo38 5* (+32) 10 < 1533546434 287983 :manish23!~manish@95-43-62-59.ip.btc-net.bg QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)) < 1533546674 124466 :r3m26!~r3m@59.18.249.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533546776 476308 :r3m26!~r3m@59.18.249.111 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533547205 413206 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1533547289 189238 :SlashLife1!~SlashLife@131.108.166-219.netwaytelecon.com.br JOIN :#esoteric < 1533547365 852187 :SlashLife1!~SlashLife@131.108.166-219.netwaytelecon.com.br QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533547871 682154 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533548020 298661 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1533549065 532534 :K0HAX13!~K0HAX@118.97.167.126 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533549395 393368 :K0HAX13!~K0HAX@118.97.167.126 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1533549579 879081 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Turing-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57253&oldid=56631 5* 03A 5* (+188) 10My attempt of interpreting a 3-state Busy-Beaver(on wikipedia)(maybe that will prove it Turing-complete?) > 1533549614 53774 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Turing-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57254&oldid=57253 5* 03A 5* (-32) 10 < 1533549772 349361 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533549987 636159 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1533550049 419247 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1533550092 400217 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm, what's this... a 3 state TM over a binary alphabet? < 1533550270 862981 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not happy with states being called "conditions". > 1533550392 111320 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Turing-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57255&oldid=57254 5* 03A 5* (+1) 10 < 1533550429 647427 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I think it is appropriate to say that A is in a condition of willful ignorance < 1533550434 241873 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or perhaps a state) < 1533550616 899859 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/utm.png seems relevant < 1533550750 517835 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but I have not checked they count states) < 1533550758 76662 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, *how* they count states < 1533551031 951321 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533551935 272419 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe QUIT :Quit: Hugs~ <3 < 1533552325 257307 :trobotham4!~trobotham@223.29.204.74 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533552366 741908 :trobotham4!~trobotham@223.29.204.74 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533552662 312623 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe JOIN :#esoteric < 1533552866 742283 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: PLEASE CHICKEN < 1533554337 451397 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric < 1533557238 49278 :cottongin10!~cottongin@ANantes-654-1-261-218.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1533557334 993047 :cottongin10!~cottongin@ANantes-654-1-261-218.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1533557487 405612 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Turing-machine14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=57256 5* 03Int-e 5* (+397) 10Created page with "== Computational class == According to [https://arxiv.org/abs/1110.2230 T. Neary and D. Woods], it was shown by L. Pavlotskaya that the halting problem is decidable for all Tu..." < 1533557930 392780 :FrozenFox18!~FrozenFox@211.201.138.44 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533558042 512314 :FrozenFox18!~FrozenFox@211.201.138.44 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533559474 609425 :ollien23!~ollien@105.102.204.147 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533559521 825084 :ollien23!~ollien@105.102.204.147 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533560321 224990 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yftdzqwwncgpnsty JOIN :#esoteric < 1533560818 129400 :hggdh1!~hggdh@pcsp166-241.dynamic.supercable.net.ve JOIN :#esoteric < 1533560839 157003 :hggdh1!~hggdh@pcsp166-241.dynamic.supercable.net.ve QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533562191 519211 :radiofree29!~radiofree@ZF091204.ppp.dion.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1533562195 678601 :radiofree29!~radiofree@ZF091204.ppp.dion.ne.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533562434 809970 :Patrick28!~Patrick@103.208.152.194 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533562666 726543 :Guest43996!~Guest4399@41.139.244.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533562691 980146 :Guest43996!~Guest4399@41.139.244.130 QUIT :K-Lined < 1533562737 662833 :Patrick28!~Patrick@103.208.152.194 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1533563863 421631 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric < 1533565593 780653 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1533565594 88505 :Yurume_______!23f9939a@121.78.85.35 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1533565603 284899 :Gregor!~Gregor@2001:470:1:41:a800:ff:fe3e:ad41 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1533565653 280239 :shikhin!shikhin@lambdaos.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1533565681 428339 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533565694 322410 :Gregor`!~Gregor@2605:2700:0:17:a800:ff:fe3e:ad41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533565740 46278 :Yurume_______!23f9939a@121.78.85.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533565827 702225 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1533565897 346625 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533566249 995292 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533566474 29143 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:d10a:f6bb:395e:293f QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1533567063 127501 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533567267 70187 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:699c:a716:1b3e:6b38 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533567493 43590 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1533568373 185343 :ravioli14!~ravioli@118.69.9.176 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533568705 321343 :ravioli14!~ravioli@118.69.9.176 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1533568759 10390 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1533568825 557131 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533569028 656745 :Shanmugamp715!~Shanmugam@119.199.117.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533569075 694077 :Shanmugamp715!~Shanmugam@119.199.117.248 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533569102 474175 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1533569629 576007 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1533569939 993463 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533570317 160595 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh heck. < 1533570391 29029 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently "does" is another of those English words like "are", which both have a really common meaning and a rare one, so the rare one is completely impossible to search, because in an English you don't even have any hope to automatically parse the sentence and guess whether it's a noun or verb. < 1533570401 736656 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1533570610 876156 :arooni17!~arooni@110.12.95.154 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533570649 355547 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533570714 231522 :arooni17!~arooni@110.12.95.154 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533570776 936928 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, plural of "doe"? < 1533570913 466130 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1533571011 976982 :Looking20!~Looking@39.117.161.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533571055 487135 :Looking20!~Looking@39.117.161.71 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533571096 392735 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: yes. but you can check a dictionary. < 1533571136 29558 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm also a native speaker, which affords some advantages < 1533571150 293041 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and don't tell me you don't have one. I said a rare word, not a whatever rarity is below mythic rare word that you only find in the OED.) < 1533571171 147112 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there are free English dictionaries on the internet.) < 1533571174 387878 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I genuinely don't have a physical dictionary) < 1533571201 637263 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although I did know both the noun definition of "does" and "are", the latter I learnt only yesterday) < 1533571202 97814 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: yes, but you have an internet connection, and you don't need the OED, you only need one of those dictionaries you can access freely < 1533571239 575864 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rare words are in most of those, mythic rare words are in the best of those. there's a rarity below that, but I almost never meet such words, and if I saw one, I'd think it's an error. < 1533571311 559052 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: there's also a verb definition for "art", and it's a form of "be", which also causes some problems in searching, but in this case the noun is more common than the verb < 1533571343 991436 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then there's "Ares" and "ares", which are two different words, the latter is the plural of the noun "are" < 1533571347 291667 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it gets complicated < 1533571915 282590 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have a dictionary, and I know those stuff < 1533572465 676870 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1533572662 881775 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know if there is a better way of making working interrupting downloads in my "sqlext_curl" SQLite extension? < 1533572777 431691 :ptx018!~ptx0@FL1-122-130-34-118.tky.mesh.ad.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1533572829 53655 :ptx018!~ptx0@FL1-122-130-34-118.tky.mesh.ad.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533572853 161827 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you count words so rare that you only find them in the OED, it gets stupid, because there's at least one super-mythic rare meaning for any reasonable combination of letters you care for, and possibly several super-mythic rare meanings for any very common word. < 1533572896 690293 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: better way than what? < 1533572909 94765 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have a documentation of your extension somewhere, or something? < 1533572945 861978 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and are you asking about the curl side, the sqlite interface side, or both? < 1533573002 309679 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :A list of my SQLite extensions are at http://zzo38computer.org/sql/sqlite.txt and sqlext.zip in the same directory contains the source codes and further documentation. I am asking about the SQLite side, although there may be stuff in libcurl too. < 1533573064 718217 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I am currently doing is to prepare the statement "WITH X AS (SELECT 0 UNION ALL SELECT * FROM X) SELECT * FROM X;" and then pass it as the first argument to the progress callback, which then does: return sqlite3_step(usr)!=SQLITE_ROW; < 1533573087 122469 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, that looks like klugy to me. < 1533573255 332625 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Sorry, I have to leave for a few hours now, but may read that later. < 1533573257 781896 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1533573296 76435 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1533573405 662842 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533573501 89892 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yftdzqwwncgpnsty QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1533574062 573766 :aloril_!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1533574602 937863 :Contessa!~Contessa@56-24-184-213-static.uwm.edu.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1533574603 588703 :fireworks10!~fireworks@213.185.240.65 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533574781 865092 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1533574816 299966 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1533574881 401590 :fireworks10!~fireworks@213.185.240.65 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1533574884 404709 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1533574895 388517 :Contessa!~Contessa@56-24-184-213-static.uwm.edu.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1533575371 231210 :Cronus15!~Cronus@181.192.8.78 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533575757 878567 :Cronus15!~Cronus@181.192.8.78 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1533576359 599423 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1533576580 265864 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a JOIN :#esoteric < 1533576580 521999 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a QUIT :Changing host < 1533576580 522049 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1533576925 215583 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533577202 314896 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds > 1533577623 219574 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57257&oldid=57251 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (-1) 10/* If Statements */ \_()_/ < 1533578529 442039 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1533578674 891799 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1533579123 447829 :cods6!~cods@host-92-28-61-135.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533579163 195954 :cods6!~cods@host-92-28-61-135.as13285.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533580015 348575 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1533580166 728141 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533580337 913418 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will Pope Francis I do Vatican III? < 1533580404 378472 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533580467 502299 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric < 1533580497 671347 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1533580528 346578 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533580789 232351 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533580904 75302 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533580918 60921 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533580966 2692 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric < 1533581056 39839 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I doubt it < 1533581141 286562 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will Pope Francis M do Vatican III? < 1533581364 162017 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, what is the highest number that any pope has had? Probably not as high as M, I should think? < 1533581388 574857 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't M the mobile version? < 1533581418 411967 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :M is the roman numbers for one thousand < 1533581660 329330 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ekexmlbcswrlmedu JOIN :#esoteric < 1533581725 202509 :Cajs10!~Cajs@219.140.199.91 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533581766 658570 :Cajs10!~Cajs@219.140.199.91 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533582023 42235 :x49F8!~x49F@37.218.10.93 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533582409 13957 :x49F8!~x49F@37.218.10.93 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1533584285 871497 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw hexadecimal roman: i ii iv v vi vii viv vv vvi vvii vviv (≡ivx) vx vxi vxii vxiv (≡ix) x xi xii xiv xv … xlvxiv (≡il) l … (i = 1, v = 4, x = 16, l = 64, c = 256 etc) < 1533584354 83050 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :unparenthesized variants correspond to usual quatenary numeric system with digits 0, 1, 2, 3, and parenthesized ones correspond to the one with digits −1, 0, 1, 2 < 1533584372 311078 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :afair < 1533584459 869571 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be prefixed or postfixed e. g. by H as in some asms to distinguish from the usual romans < 1533584496 85176 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :also this pre/postfixation allows one to represent zero: H in the last case < 1533584583 858131 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wpemnouzpdjeqyix JOIN :#esoteric < 1533584801 454016 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-137-99.cdrr.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1533584838 810999 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1533584988 630019 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-137-99.cdrr.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533585102 201886 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533585160 521625 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone said tabs should appear in your history when you closed them, not when you opened them. But my opinion is you should be allowed to define your own SQL queries for the history menus. < 1533585363 218078 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wise < 1533585396 211104 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1533585534 992008 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533585575 302257 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1533585764 316955 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn JOIN :#esoteric < 1533585790 361533 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: look, I'd like a new representation of hexadecimal numbers, but I hate roman numbers so please don't base this on them. please invent something that is at least sort of positional and can represent large numbers too. < 1533585850 552733 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ideally, one that can represent hexadecimal floating point numbers, so there's a way to mark the sign and the exponent and the exponent of the sign, though the exponent itself can be in decimal, describe the full syntax. < 1533585868 265839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: wouldn't it not be hexadecimal if you changed it to anything but place-value notation? < 1533585869 671490 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and a decimal point. I forgot that part. < 1533585891 637690 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did see something else where the digits 7 to 1 are written upside down to make the stuff after 8, was someone's idea too I think < 1533585920 174417 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This was on a clock; hexadecimal timekeeping was invented by many people independently, some from before computer machines were invented.) < 1533585920 404632 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it isn't a decimal point unless you're using decimal < 1533585967 858785 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mostly, but if you, say, optionally insert a cat's scratch mark between every four digits, then I'm willing to still call that hexadecimal < 1533586046 13934 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and perhaps if there are two separate sets of glyphs for digits, either used alternately, or one set used when you want non-grid digits like when you'd use old style numerals in decimal, that's still fine. < 1533586059 552567 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's hard enough to find *one* good set of digits that doesn't clash with something else. < 1533586077 200271 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously it depends on what you want to use it for < 1533586107 6654 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like one that's human-readable and human-writable and machine-readable and machine-writable < 1533586193 70841 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And reasonably easy to learn, not requiring months of training in the basics of arabic or eastern calligraphy, and then differences in stroke order of one digit depending on whether it's in chinese or japanese text. < 1533586228 860530 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That reminds me, I have a question. < 1533586287 370122 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you read what I wrote before you were off a while ago today? < 1533586292 998094 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where can I find, ideally for free on the internet, a description with detailed illustrations on how to handwrite Russian, < 1533586340 986489 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in one of those fancy archaic ways that people used three decades ago or would use on a diploma a dentist puts on his wall, but in a way that I can quickly use for jotting down a few names for reference, < 1533586357 570276 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, but I might would try looking in Wikipedia first to see if they have any < 1533586390 246437 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it should include the entire modern Russian alphabet in both upper and lower case, and all variants required if I want to write entire words in lower case, and ideally stress accents and basic punctuation too. < 1533586460 783322 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I did look. I found only an image showing what looks like older fancy handwriting, with like a single sample for each letter or perhaps two sets of samples, each isolated rather than connected despite that it looks like these are letters designed for connecting the lowercase ones. < 1533586469 20823 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no stroke order. < 1533586508 54076 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1533586549 440822 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :One possibility is that I should just pay a private Russian language tutor that I visit in person for a short course or something. But that might cost a ton of money. < 1533586587 48998 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you do then you can write a book. < 1533586588 270278 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo: oh, I'll get back to that in a moment, thanks for reminding < 1533586623 600326 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: or at least a short few-page guide. not a full-length book from what I learn. < 1533586647 672152 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1533586650 405526 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533586657 2556 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would cost a ton because it would probably be one-on-one lessons, and those cost a lot, because a language teacher can realistically ask for 17000 HUF per 45 minutes or even more < 1533586692 114482 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this would take more than 90 minutes, I think. < 1533586740 636860 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My current workaround is to write the ISO 9 transcripted equivalent, because I know how to handwrite latin letters with diacritics < 1533587246 727181 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But before I forget, another question. < 1533587255 793522 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: And ideally, one that can represent hexadecimal floating point numbers, so there's a way to mark the sign and the exponent and the exponent of the sign, though the exponent itself can be in decimal, describe the full syntax. => in that case, what’s wrong with the usual hexadecimal? :P < 1533587321 427873 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, for bonus, I'd also like a pronunciation for the hexadecimal numbers, although there are already at least two reasonable systems for that. And if possible, also a long pronunciation system, for noisy environments. < 1533587463 224066 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder what the two most differentiable sounds are? you could use them to spell out the nybbles in binary < 1533587489 694204 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: there are multiple things wrong. some of them can't be fixed by another standard: nobody can agree if the digits A-Z should be uppercase or lowercase, some programs only accept uppercase (TeX and bc and dc; and you definitely can't change those), but many programs emit lowercase (including some /proc interfaces in the kernel), and I think < 1533587489 851866 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I've even seen programs that only accept lowercase. < 1533587538 376706 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I believe that uppercase is standard; the issue is that in many libraries it's customizable < 1533587552 70772 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. C *printf uses %X or %x for hex according to the case of letters you want < 1533587566 152939 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that would be hard for the mind of both the listener and the speaker, and also the most differentiable ones are very long and varied, to make sure it works for different background noises and loud noises blotting out different moments entirely. < 1533587570 402796 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem there is that most printf specifiers are lowercase < 1533587575 248078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so people tend to use %x out of consistency < 1533587592 549498 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you want pronouncable ones, right? if not, probably a fucking loud air raid siren and silence. < 1533587609 810738 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I guess they need to be self-delimiting too < 1533587628 703950 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"upwards chirp" and "downwards chirp" might work, it's very rare to misinterpret one as the other < 1533587635 495790 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might be unsure which you've heard but then you can ask for a resend < 1533587635 583052 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is a C struct/union type? < 1533587640 559830 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps a jet engine and silence, because I'm not sure air raid siren sounds are actually well designed for some hard-on-hearing people who only hear low frequency sounds < 1533587650 585519 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what level of abstraction are you asking at? < 1533587658 824569 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to involve a bunch of different properties. < 1533587690 743451 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess what it includes is, at least: A sizeof; a namespace of members; for each member, an offset. < 1533587697 508877 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there are solutions for sounds that aren't self-delimiting if the two sounds are of equal length: what serial lines does works < 1533587706 87742 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: oh, I see < 1533587720 681319 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But also something like a calling convention which lets you pass a struct type in registers etc. < 1533587722 116020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in very early versions of C, members weren't namespaced, and were just constants describing the offset < 1533587723 488473 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, wrapping them so they're now delimited < 1533587734 652362 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's changed since < 1533587746 479335 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeX uses lowercase hex for ^^ and uppercase hex for " < 1533587772 305974 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if the calling convention is part of the struct type itself, normally ABIs will have a clause about "here's how you give a structure that's six bytes long as a parameter", or the like < 1533587781 544437 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not strictly the calling convention. < 1533587785 377687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, more complex ABIs may care about whether the struct contains ints or floats… < 1533587793 385231 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I mean is that it says "if you specify a value for each member, you've specified the entire struct" < 1533587804 305506 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if there's some extra memory for alignment or something. < 1533587809 66273 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no no, the calling conventions are all defined on each architecture deterministically from the definition of the C struct, which contains the order and type and name (and field width if you're masochistic) of each member plus the alignas specifier and attributes on the struct itself. < 1533587823 237249 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: and the sizeof is part of the calling conventions < 1533587827 756569 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the struct itself doesn't include the calling convention, but you see what I'm getting at. < 1533587850 390893 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think == works on structs, does it? < 1533587851 280446 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A struct isn't just a thing in memory with offsets, it can have different representations. < 1533587862 272206 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't think memcmp does either because it compares padding bytes < 1533587908 831636 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Where can I find, ideally for free on the internet, a description with detailed illustrations on how to handwrite Russian, // not in one of those fancy archaic ways that people used three decades ago or would use on a diploma a dentist puts on his wall, but in a way that I can quickly use for jotting down a few names for reference => oh neat one! I am native and I didn’t search too much, but after that little search I think < 1533587908 936415 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : it’s still described in full only in paper textbooks for children :\ < 1533587909 6188 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIR letter connections are fairly simple, only several letters have two forms (в, о, ю, ь, ъ — all because of circles at the right, but I can’t remember about ф in this regard). If there wouldn’t be any better findings, I’ll try to fix something (I don’t use this style in my handwritting, it’s a mishmash of styles, but this one is too slow to use consistently < 1533587938 476331 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you pass a struct with two members to a function, it's permitted to just pass the two values in registers, without passing the padding in, right? < 1533587939 186228 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: do you want to know the rules of calling conventions for C and C++ structs on linux-x86_32 and linux-x86_64 and win32-x86_32 and win32-x86_64? I have link to both the ELF specs defining the linux C special case, and Agner's writeup which describes them in a readable way. < 1533587971 616698 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I'm not so much asking about any particular architecture but about what the language construct is. < 1533588004 979699 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also look up in a C/C++ compiler source code, or a debugger source code, or even most of the C calling conventions in a haskell compiler or rust compiler source code, although a few crazy pieces like bitfields and atomics may be missing from the latter < 1533588007 885132 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is struct assignment with = required to copy padding? I would imagine not? < 1533588033 901584 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: oh, do you mean the semantics of structs guaranteed by the language for all architecture? < 1533588045 813194 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe? < 1533588062 157374 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not really thinking about C here, I'm trying to figure out how you might define structs in another language. < 1533588069 416950 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a bit complicated. I can point you to the respective standards, but it's likely better to ask on the ##c and ##c++ channels on freenode < 1533588070 747467 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you make structs/unions a user-defined thing? < 1533588096 394600 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so what information would they need? < 1533588112 591684 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: do you mean you want to know about structs in rust or D or some other specific language? < 1533588112 996586 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Oh, for bonus, I'd also like a pronunciation for the hexadecimal numbers, although there are already at least two reasonable systems for that. And if possible, also a long pronunciation system, for noisy environments. => I pass then :D < 1533588124 487320 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: No, a hypothetical language. < 1533588153 461387 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: IIRC parameter passing is defined as initialisation, which wouldn't copy padding as it's conceptually field-by-field < 1533588159 195628 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: a hypothetical language can define its rules however you want, but you might want to find out about the rules in existing similar languages first < 1533588170 743801 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Right. < 1533588173 135196 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's for C, right? < 1533588190 609020 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: OK, is there any language that supports something like user-defined struct data types? < 1533588214 892322 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think there's some magic in the standard that actually lets it overwrite the padding bits and bytes if the compiler chooses to, because in practice that's often faster < 1533588218 562127 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: yes, we're talking about C < 1533588232 978072 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think initialisation puts any requirement on what the padding bits are < 1533588243 857709 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a memcpy would be allowed by the as-if rule < 1533588274 11157 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: C, C++, rust, D, probably more but I don't really know any by heart < 1533588288 222497 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm saying because the C++ rules are much more complicated < 1533588295 433984 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I mean user-defined as in "struct isn't a fundamental notion in the language" < 1533588320 982646 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But instead you define a type and say that this is the sizeof and there are values at these offsets and so on. < 1533588336 935439 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: oh, sometimes I feel better if I pretend C++ doesn't exist < 1533588348 894567 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: are algebraic types, ML-like, or rust enums, a fundamental concept? < 1533588357 226558 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's something like three languages at this point < 1533588367 346545 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Go, the "namespace" aspect is a bit more explicit: You can write "type A struct { x int; y int; }; type B struct { A; ... }", and then refer to "b.x" < 1533588368 425708 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: oh, you want one where you define the memory representation and perhaps even the calling convention? < 1533588373 924297 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, I wonder what the two most differentiable sounds are? you could use them to spell out the nybbles in binary => maybe something noisy, a fricative like [ʃ] or [ç] or something, and something sonorant like a vowel, maybe a closed one like [i] or [u] or [y] will do better (IDK) < 1533588379 967159 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think some assemblers let you define structs like that < 1533588382 897774 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: in OCaml too < 1533588386 141010 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can give arbitrary offsets < 1533588405 136437 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then you have to write all the code that reads and write the struct, you can only refer to the offset values conveniently < 1533588412 314841 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, I misread < 1533588417 414674 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since, you know, that's the whole point of assemblers < 1533588417 924427 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I don't know about defining the calling convention explicitly so much as specifying the information in the struct to the point that the compiler can figure out a convention. < 1533588420 217932 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a common extension to C < 1533588429 416555 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It is possible in some C compilers as well < 1533588441 594752 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the OCaml method you have to give namespaces explicitly for struct field access < 1533588450 73842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. say which struct it belongs to < 1533588453 3132 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, self-delimited fails for thoswe < 1533588454 701784 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you mean? < 1533588486 422824 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you can usually just do that by adding specific dummy fields so there's no automatically inserted padding, plus an alignas marking for the struct, and making all fields the right type < 1533588492 730675 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in the right order too < 1533588493 76586 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think something like (in C++) "struct B { A base; using namespace base; ... };" could be nice. < 1533588501 869993 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and possibly including unions < 1533588515 83981 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you want something exotic like overlapping fields, then you're out of luck unless perhaps you can do it in fortran < 1533588521 33432 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, partially overlapping fields < 1533588522 457726 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unions are "just" structs where all the members have offset 0. < 1533588547 455787 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I mean, two fields where the upper part of one overlaps the lower part of the other < 1533588552 672155 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kind of? I guess the calling convention can get tricky. < 1533588564 754406 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you can use unions, and with GNU C you can also have zero length arrays < 1533588570 918026 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care about overlapping fields very much, I think in a case like that you might be better off doing it manually. < 1533588592 234511 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I think you can do even that with unnamed unions, which C and rust now have, and unions in C++ at the cost of it being slightly more difficult to reference the fields < 1533588598 490828 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: C99 has something similar to zero-length arrays. < 1533588625 706810 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the GCC documentation mentions that, but it isn't as good as real zero-length arrays, I think < 1533588633 916750 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ and rust both have improved support for unions now, although rust's isn't perfect yet, but people always want to improve everything in rust, so duh < 1533588672 534378 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rust has tagged unions, I expect? < 1533588679 852214 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the untagged kind is rather ridiculously unsafe < 1533588683 533973 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh, you want zero-length arrays? then write it with rust structs and rust unions, each #[repr(C)] and possibly whatever the new syntax of alignof is < 1533588702 941655 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: rust fully supports zero-length anything, and even has special language rules to make them work really well < 1533588732 17392 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only problem is, no anonymous inner structs/unions yet, but there's a proposal, and it will go through because it's needed for wrapping some C interfaces < 1533588743 782406 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: rust has both < 1533588745 561986 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc supports zero-length arrays, which is annoying when you're trying to cause an error during type checking < 1533588756 892540 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use negative lengths to cause an error during type checking. < 1533588759 778815 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, the untagged is unsafe, but sometimes you want that to control representation exactly < 1533588761 223625 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is what I do < 1533588764 796636 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my static_assert implementation has to use a negative-sized array, right < 1533588772 143465 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tagged ones are called enum < 1533588786 694503 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In addition to C structs/unions I want to figure out whether C++-style (non-virtual) methods are a good idea or not. They're also an odd mix of several things. < 1533588792 736220 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a tagged union is really a cross between an enum and a union < 1533588798 353601 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :enumion < 1533588801 769736 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and #[repr(C)] enum even have a definite representation now, or will soon have iirc < 1533588818 271811 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, a representation promised by the language in all future compilers < 1533588833 886213 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's kind-of weird, C compilers aren't stable as to how to represent enums < 1533588837 445386 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have also seen using a enum with a division by zero to cause conditional compiler errors) < 1533588839 344265 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I think only if you add a #[repr(u32)] or similar to tell what type the tag is < 1533588841 276772 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They give you namespacing, so you can write "v.push(x)" instead of "vector_push(v, x)" < 1533588853 953339 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The namespacing is nice because you don't have to type the type name everywhere. < 1533588873 595500 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they also give you an implicit "this" argument, which seems kind of pointless? < 1533588884 514372 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: some languages use "unified call syntax" where a.f(b) and f(a,b) are syntactic sugar for each other < 1533588898 103129 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I guess that can work if you have overloaded functions. < 1533588906 932487 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's kind of ugly to put f in global namespace. < 1533588908 471732 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in rust, if you add #[repr(C)] #[repr(u32)] or similar for almost any integer type, then the repr is defined, at least in not too old versions, as a struct whose first element is the tag and the second is a union of the variants or of structs of the variants or something. < 1533588915 904817 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it presumably only makes sense with overloading < 1533588931 778333 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, I can envisage a language where the options are a.f(b) and n.f(a,b) where n is a namespace < 1533588934 58877 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the idea of methods is, an object is a "dynamic" namespace which is created at runtime. < 1533588935 572546 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. a has a "default" namespace < 1533588940 292516 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in most other cases, it's implementation-defined, because the compiler does some optimizations on the representation that they don't want to promise to be the same in the future, and are a bit long to describe, < 1533588973 130685 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: like Option> using a null pointer for the Nothing case? < 1533588988 172450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus not needing a separate tag at all? < 1533589005 11386 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, although it's more general than that, and complicated < 1533589022 39026 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't know the full rules, and don't want to know < 1533589053 187095 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, I was just giving an example of the sort of optimisation you'd expect < 1533589087 677394 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely wonders if, in the case that you have an enum where all the payloads are pointers with alignment > 1, it's efficient to put the tag in the low-order bits of the pointers < 1533589088 898075 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, usually you let the compiler do its thing, but if you want a specific representation for either passing to or from non-rust code or optimization, then you use structs and unions and enums with specific #[repr] tags to achieve exactly the representation you want, like you can do in C too < 1533589160 166187 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it depends on what you want to optimize for, low memory usage like in the heap of a prolog or scheme compiler, or fast computation like in a struct you just filled and pass to a function? < 1533589165 60809 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: That also seems like something I'd rather specify in user code instead of as a compiler rule. < 1533589199 289648 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why the compiler has to be conservative with what optimizations it will do, at least when it has to fix the representation for external crates, rather than when it can get away with anything by the as-if rule < 1533589214 334757 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have enum { One, Two, Three(Box) }, will it use two invalid pointer values (e.g. 0 and 1) for the first two tags? < 1533589234 888684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: right, I was mostly just curious as to what the performance was like speed-wise (the memory savings are obvious) < 1533589257 631634 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 is not an invalid pointer value on all platforms; in fact, 0 is not invalid on all platforms either < 1533589269 347954 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pointer to 0 might be fairly useful on the 6502 < 1533589278 263364 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1533589287 746898 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this sort of thing is why C gives flexibility for NULL to be something other than all-bits-zero) < 1533589291 903478 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but besides the optimization for when you tell the compiler that the contents of one branch is a nonzero pointer or integer (wrapped in any abstractions) and there's only two branches, there is an optimization for nested enums, and for enums with only one branch where the arm type isn't void, and I think more < 1533589298 764620 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But surely on most platforms there are some pointer values that can be considered invalid. < 1533589309 789035 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: one thing that's not obvious is when you want to put the tag at the start and when at the end < 1533589312 104768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the time there would normally be unmapped bytes in the middle of the memory space, maybe 0xA000 would make for a good NULL < 1533589319 492738 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ null pointers-to-members are often represented as -1, because 0 is a reasonable offset. < 1533589347 898878 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a pointer-to-member? is it effectively a "function pointer for a getter" but optimised? < 1533589376 201026 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an offset into a struct, more or less. < 1533589387 160988 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: well, if this is "repr(C)" you'd put the tag at the start, because of the guarantees C gives about struct layout < 1533589408 716747 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: some people say that future rust compilers should reorder fields in structs if that avoids padding fields. it is clear that the current docs allow rust to do this, at least for structs without a #[repr(...)] that excludes that, but I for one don't think it's a good idea to actually do that ever < 1533589419 311476 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct A { int x, y; }; A a; int A::*p = &A::y; < 1533589443 483660 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case you can use a.*p to get the y from an A < 1533589469 750231 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: if all the fields in a struct are power-of-2 size they should be stored in reverse size order; perhaps that should be done in the source, though, rather than by the compiler < 1533589488 934685 :Guest89349!~Guest8934@p352205-ipngn200402yamaguchi.yamaguchi.ocn.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1533589495 399104 :Guest89349!~Guest8934@p352205-ipngn200402yamaguchi.yamaguchi.ocn.ne.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533589597 17344 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, and there's actually another guaranteed representation case: a "C-like enum" with #[repr(i32)] or almost any other integer type, which is basically one with all arms empty, what get from #[repr(i32)] enum { X, Y, Z } or from #[repr(i32)] enum { X=2, Y=4, Z=3 } < 1533589667 799994 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a totally different OT question, I want to ask it before I forget < 1533589734 116975 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :today's bonus comic https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/laws-and-sausages says that Zach (the creator of SMBC) is launching a new popularized nonfiction webcomic. He teams up with an expert in the nonfiction topic the webcomic popularizes, and with an "artist". < 1533589764 886536 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My question is, who draws the comics and what does the "artist" do and what the heck Zach does if the artist draws the comics and the expert gives the content? < 1533589788 373367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some comics work by assembly from components < 1533589797 630184 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, they'll have stock images of their characters, locations, etc. < 1533589807 709062 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then to make the comic someone will copy-and-paste the images and add words < 1533589817 209117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that tends to be a good way to save time if you have a lot of recurring characters < 1533589821 108503 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why do they need an artist if Zach could handle all the art just fine so far. < 1533589825 413217 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally you'll have some new art in a comic (but not always!) < 1533589843 473356 :aphel!~aphel@110.53.202.76 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533589854 421575 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :the expert gives the expertise < 1533589860 123604 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :zach would presumably mostly be the writer < 1533589889 492481 :aphel!~aphel@110.53.202.76 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533589907 68187 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I had heard of a separate letterer or a separate colorist or a separate writer. separate writer might be a good guess for Zach actually, in which case the artist would do all the drawing. < 1533589947 663200 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1533589972 176307 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. http://lawsandsausagescomic.com/about says "Laws and Sausages is co-written by brothers Greg Weiner and Zach Weinersmith, and drawn by Dennis Culver." < 1533589994 281382 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so both the expert and zach writes, or so they claim, and the artist draws. < 1533590114 764764 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: on cursive: this https://www.reddit.com/r/russian/comments/69mcom/пиши_русские_буквы_правильно shows some connections (maybe not all form variations but it’s a good start nonetheless); as one can guess, in a connection the letter to the right decides form of the left letter, and it’s a simple rule: whether the right letter starts from down or up. On stroke order I’d approve https://i.pinimg.com/ < 1533590114 884728 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :originals/9f/9d/4a/9f9d4aa8e31eadcd2f4dfc44d23dd9f6.jpg < 1533590120 180821 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533590134 299946 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the link should concatenate to https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9f/9d/4a/9f9d4aa8e31eadcd2f4dfc44d23dd9f6.jpg < 1533590162 107958 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: thanks < 1533590235 555426 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I could make a screencast on writing various things. Can’t say it would be 100% canonical, but all the same, people write differently < 1533590241 938560 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :not today though < 1533590282 276221 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it would be mouse-writing with all the consequences :D < 1533590308 988515 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: thanks < 1533590328 316521 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those two are good links < 1533590375 834480 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :glad you liked them < 1533590394 180704 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1533590401 286827 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is the left stroke of the en written? is that one you're supposed to write after the entire word, like accents and t's stroke, according to teachers, although I never do that? < 1533590423 405170 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is the whole en written in one long unbroken line? < 1533590474 829141 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, this looks like a version that's designed for writing almost everything in one unbroken line, except the j < 1533590522 625139 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps not, because the o with a low connection after looks hard that way < 1533590650 726868 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and similarly to the en, I wonder how you write the left side of the ju < 1533590658 458252 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, this helps a lot < 1533590754 81798 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Or is the whole en written in one long unbroken line? => this one. I’ll show tomorrow I swear < 1533590787 392429 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can try to practice based on this. I'd probably have to write much slower than I usually write latin letter text for myself, but the latin letter text is barely readable (even for me) then < 1533590791 376261 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least as I remember it < 1533590828 446088 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: well, now I have to remind you. and if you do it, please publish it to somewhere that anyone can watch, like youtube. < 1533590856 782354 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah if I write quite fast, the result is a mess. I was doing that at uni < 1533590861 890599 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and make sure you aren't writing so fast that the video doesn't actually show all the details of the stroke order < 1533590869 984162 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :youtube seems okay < 1533590872 437237 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, the uni is where I learned too < 1533590899 514574 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also some math notation besides latin letter text, and lots of abbreviations < 1533590917 666277 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the first few years of university that is < 1533590929 26658 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gets less heavy on writing later < 1533590949 236380 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except on a few exams and competitions < 1533590958 728113 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I don’t know if there a difference in math beside digits in cursive < 1533590967 568180 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’ll include digits < 1533590997 469613 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :and punctuation, but I’m unsure about quote marks < 1533591021 759680 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was an oral exam where I wrote ten pages, then the teacher, who thought I was good at that subject, told me that if I write even one more line he'll kick me out, but then I placated him by saying that the first five pages are actually not even needed for the part I'm supposed to say so he can just ignore those < 1533591036 9687 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I don't need that < 1533591044 272276 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I won't write math in russian < 1533591062 268174 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops I misread < 1533591070 448673 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: you can still do it for other people if you want, but I already know how to write math in Hungarian or English, and don't need it in russian < 1533591095 14802 :johnpark_pj!~johnpark_@176.205.139.152 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533591116 929136 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah then just digits. The rest is no doubt the same < 1533591169 271357 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :well gtg < 1533591183 565628 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1533591201 446895 :johnpark_pj!~johnpark_@176.205.139.152 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533591210 766761 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye! < 1533591424 216156 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you see my SQLite extensions by now? < 1533591489 704194 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no, we had other chat < 1533591497 362977 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have it open in tabs < 1533591509 46053 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1533591588 416743 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533591733 867114 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1533592378 749471 :Shinobi!~Shinobi@78.100.161.18 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533592379 936773 :Shinobi!~Shinobi@78.100.161.18 QUIT :K-Lined < 1533592874 72541 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1533593575 796468 :khronosschoty17!~khronossc@bl5-1-10.dsl.telepac.pt JOIN :#esoteric < 1533593647 58704 :khronosschoty17!~khronossc@bl5-1-10.dsl.telepac.pt QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533593687 189341 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric < 1533593850 10282 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533594153 991523 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1533594232 691271 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533594358 698660 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533594507 713271 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1533594710 236354 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sorry, I won't be able to look at it this evening, it's too late and I found more interesting things < 1533594713 13838 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1533594999 262699 :shikhin!shikhin@lambdaos.org QUIT :Changing host < 1533594999 262762 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1533595005 37220 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533595500 662153 :tharkun28!~tharkun@58.44.155.155 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533595794 565612 :tharkun28!~tharkun@58.44.155.155 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1533595795 54442 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1533596595 350070 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1533596790 528490 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGIRL, dying... < 1533596999 629555 :Dominian27!~Dominian@160.178.217.251 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533597081 686957 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1533597107 74756 :Dominian27!~Dominian@160.178.217.251 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1533597448 534027 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1533597525 402641 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533597758 223907 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1533598044 185836 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1533598130 331157 :prettymuchbryce6!~prettymuc@27.159.171.156 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533598163 786257 :prettymuchbryce6!~prettymuc@27.159.171.156 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1533599229 176297 :GuntherDW20!~GuntherDW@131.0.206.74 JOIN :#esoteric < 1533599547 662942 :GuntherDW20!~GuntherDW@131.0.206.74 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1533599860 223752 :imode1!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric