> 1533081874 81376 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Mu614]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=57094 5* 03BMO 5* (+4686) 10Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=6 |paradigms=[[:Category:Functional_paradigm|functional]] |author=[https://esolangs.org/wiki/User:BMO BMO] |year=[[:Category:2018|2018]] |typesys= |..."
> 1533082580 756107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Mu614]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57095&oldid=57094 5* 03BMO 5* (+249) 10
> 1533082926 72788 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:BMO14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57096&oldid=53961 5* 03BMO 5* (+57) 10
> 1533082939 904113 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:BMO14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57097&oldid=57096 5* 03BMO 5* (+1) 10
< 1533083076 396249 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lmrqcsrqkmvaexqp QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1533085799 374775 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1533086238 223181 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
> 1533086454 988527 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Fusion Tag14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57098&oldid=56486 5* 03Challenger5 5* (+148) 10
< 1533087795 830172 :Syfer!~Syfer@fixed-187-188-48-68.totalplay.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533087800 190371 :Syfer!~Syfer@fixed-187-188-48-68.totalplay.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
< 1533087803 467860 :Syfer!~Syfer@fixed-187-188-48-68.totalplay.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
< 1533087807 250075 :Syfer!~Syfer@fixed-187-188-48-68.totalplay.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
< 1533087809 916843 :Syfer!~Syfer@fixed-187-188-48-68.totalplay.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
< 1533087831 926139 :hpt!~hpt@171.240.113.44 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533088135 544569 :hpt!~hpt@171.240.113.44 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533088136 33394 :Syfer!~Syfer@fixed-187-188-48-68.totalplay.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1533088399 358095 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533088460 732056 :ByronJohnson19!~ByronJohn@2001:da8:1004:1a00::242 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533088489 694965 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: CREATING CHICKEN
< 1533088747 294493 :ByronJohnson19!~ByronJohn@2001:da8:1004:1a00::242 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1533088752 947291 :okdas!~okdas@82.222.106.67 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533088756 796529 :okdas!~okdas@82.222.106.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
< 1533088760 88833 :okdas!~okdas@82.222.106.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
< 1533088763 539732 :okdas!~okdas@82.222.106.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
< 1533088766 923829 :okdas!~okdas@82.222.106.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
< 1533088837 355829 :okdas!~okdas@82.222.106.67 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533088877 626240 :Humbedooh24!~Humbedooh@181.28.40.193 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533088881 140465 :Humbedooh24!~Humbedooh@181.28.40.193 PRIVMSG #esoteric :With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
< 1533088884 600259 :Humbedooh24!~Humbedooh@181.28.40.193 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
< 1533088888 236999 :Humbedooh24!~Humbedooh@181.28.40.193 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
< 1533088891 278368 :Humbedooh24!~Humbedooh@181.28.40.193 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
< 1533088958 416645 :Humbedooh24!~Humbedooh@181.28.40.193 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533089168 248145 :sparr15!~sparr@222.119.56.1 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533089198 61549 :sparr15!~sparr@222.119.56.1 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533090062 102528 :manish13!~manish@zaq7718ae52.zaq.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533090066 74828 :manish13!~manish@zaq7718ae52.zaq.ne.jp PRIVMSG #esoteric :With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
< 1533090069 233349 :manish13!~manish@zaq7718ae52.zaq.ne.jp PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
< 1533090072 955031 :manish13!~manish@zaq7718ae52.zaq.ne.jp PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
< 1533090075 784981 :manish13!~manish@zaq7718ae52.zaq.ne.jp PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
< 1533090157 810717 :manish13!~manish@zaq7718ae52.zaq.ne.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533090505 610751 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Quit: brb
< 1533090526 9234 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533090867 621787 :mentifis10!~mentifis@KD106165239196.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533090871 188311 :mentifis10!~mentifis@KD106165239196.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp PRIVMSG #esoteric :With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
< 1533090874 662545 :mentifis10!~mentifis@KD106165239196.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
< 1533090877 498970 :mentifis10!~mentifis@KD106165239196.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533091296 557317 :Nightmare10!~Nightmare@modemcable048.34-23-96.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533091358 179195 :Nightmare10!~Nightmare@modemcable048.34-23-96.mc.videotron.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533092804 626091 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we plox set this channel +s for a while
< 1533093235 536477 :Welcome!~Welcome@cpe-107-185-62-213.socal.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533093239 208287 :Welcome!~Welcome@cpe-107-185-62-213.socal.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
< 1533093242 670039 :Welcome!~Welcome@cpe-107-185-62-213.socal.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
< 1533093246 140085 :Welcome!~Welcome@cpe-107-185-62-213.socal.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
< 1533093249 233361 :Welcome!~Welcome@cpe-107-185-62-213.socal.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
< 1533093277 880220 :Welcome!~Welcome@cpe-107-185-62-213.socal.res.rr.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533093374 318682 :Adran15!~Adran@2800:bf0:9fff:fb90:6208:10ff:fe9e:4467 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533093377 987208 :Adran15!~Adran@2800:bf0:9fff:fb90:6208:10ff:fe9e:4467 PRIVMSG #esoteric :With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
< 1533093381 436953 :Adran15!~Adran@2800:bf0:9fff:fb90:6208:10ff:fe9e:4467 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
< 1533093384 916861 :Adran15!~Adran@2800:bf0:9fff:fb90:6208:10ff:fe9e:4467 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
< 1533093388 2250 :Adran15!~Adran@2800:bf0:9fff:fb90:6208:10ff:fe9e:4467 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
< 1533093398 379973 :Adran15!~Adran@2800:bf0:9fff:fb90:6208:10ff:fe9e:4467 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533094818 257090 :RyanKnack6!~RyanKnack@pool-74-101-233-204.nycmny.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533094841 419040 :RyanKnack6!~RyanKnack@pool-74-101-233-204.nycmny.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533094986 324025 :webpigeon22!~webpigeon@189.145.100.154 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533094990 53896 :webpigeon22!~webpigeon@189.145.100.154 PRIVMSG #esoteric :With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
< 1533094993 551185 :webpigeon22!~webpigeon@189.145.100.154 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
< 1533094996 998256 :webpigeon22!~webpigeon@189.145.100.154 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
< 1533095000 120235 :webpigeon22!~webpigeon@189.145.100.154 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
< 1533095030 76954 :webpigeon22!~webpigeon@189.145.100.154 QUIT :Killed (Unit193 (Spam is not permitted on freenode.))
< 1533096650 657767 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533097832 693133 :heroux_!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-eeizohbwyyxxkpzp QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1533097832 845450 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-zatnywurkqdvhwnu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1533097843 59733 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-ftxqgyxvxlfudtht JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533097858 423108 :heroux_!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-rhuagriqwmfsvoko JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533097866 308345 :eth212!~eth2@75.118.202.212 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533097869 391867 :eth212!~eth2@75.118.202.212 PRIVMSG #esoteric :With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
< 1533097872 839001 :eth212!~eth2@75.118.202.212 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
< 1533097876 861650 :eth212!~eth2@75.118.202.212 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
< 1533097879 408627 :eth212!~eth2@75.118.202.212 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
< 1533097909 501859 :eth212!~eth2@75.118.202.212 QUIT :Killed (Unit193 (Spam is not permitted on freenode.))
< 1533097978 170283 :kl420017!~kl4200@c-68-52-224-23.hsd1.in.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533097981 842772 :kl420017!~kl4200@c-68-52-224-23.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
< 1533097985 343881 :kl420017!~kl4200@c-68-52-224-23.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
> 1533097985 438268 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Fusion Tag14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57099&oldid=57098 5* 03Ais523 5* (-2) 10/* Implementations */ cat ("unimplemented" needs to be changed to "implemented" when an implementation is added)
< 1533097988 763480 :kl420017!~kl4200@c-68-52-224-23.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
< 1533097991 953056 :kl420017!~kl4200@c-68-52-224-23.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
< 1533098018 767203 :kl420017!~kl4200@c-68-52-224-23.hsd1.in.comcast.net QUIT :Killed (Unit193 (Spam is not permitted on freenode.))
> 1533098086 539373 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Fusion Tag14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57100&oldid=57099 5* 03Ais523 5* (+18) 10/* Commands */ fix the discussion of the error condition
> 1533098451 440351 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deadfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57101&oldid=56239 5* 03A 5* (+493) 10/* HTML / Javascript */
> 1533098742 423690 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deadfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57102&oldid=57101 5* 03A 5* (-16) 10Modifying to make it shorter.
> 1533098796 262574 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deadfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57103&oldid=57102 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10T_T a mess
< 1533099194 857773 :fwilson!~fwilson@67-4-171-73.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533099198 525976 :fwilson!~fwilson@67-4-171-73.mpls.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
< 1533099202 85192 :fwilson!~fwilson@67-4-171-73.mpls.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
< 1533099206 54763 :fwilson!~fwilson@67-4-171-73.mpls.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
< 1533099208 542749 :fwilson!~fwilson@67-4-171-73.mpls.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
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> 1533099425 893815 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deadfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57104&oldid=57103 5* 03A 5* (+51) 10/* HTML / Javascript */
> 1533099634 430769 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deadfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57105&oldid=57104 5* 03A 5* (+5) 10/* HTML / Javascript */
> 1533100631 360924 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Z14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57106&oldid=54216 5* 03Challenger5 5* (+18) 10
> 1533100766 191725 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deadfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57107&oldid=57105 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+1) 10/* HTML / Javascript */ Fix common bug
> 1533100810 946125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07InterpretMe14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57108&oldid=53132 5* 03Challenger5 5* (+18) 10
> 1533101085 602489 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Z14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57109&oldid=57106 5* 03Challenger5 5* (+23) 10
> 1533101140 403799 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MiniPig14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57110&oldid=54217 5* 03Challenger5 5* (+18) 10
> 1533101239 395809 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minscode14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57111&oldid=50530 5* 03Challenger5 5* (+110) 10
< 1533101340 209083 :mcintosh16!~mcintosh@cpe-74-73-120-40.nyc.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533101343 877401 :mcintosh16!~mcintosh@cpe-74-73-120-40.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
< 1533101347 329990 :mcintosh16!~mcintosh@cpe-74-73-120-40.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
< 1533101350 815875 :mcintosh16!~mcintosh@cpe-74-73-120-40.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
< 1533101353 905512 :mcintosh16!~mcintosh@cpe-74-73-120-40.nyc.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
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> 1533101478 400016 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ObCode14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57112&oldid=57092 5* 03Challenger5 5* (+42) 10
> 1533101539 778914 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Betaload14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57113&oldid=54162 5* 03Challenger5 5* (+96) 10
> 1533101621 116307 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minipy14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57114&oldid=50376 5* 03Challenger5 5* (+97) 10
> 1533101706 500188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minipy14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57115&oldid=57114 5* 03Challenger5 5* (+29) 10
> 1533101718 146030 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Check14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57116&oldid=52019 5* 03Challenger5 5* (+96) 10
> 1533101793 513637 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07CJam-Flavored Underload14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57117&oldid=54508 5* 03Challenger5 5* (+92) 10
> 1533101821 768659 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Betaload14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57118&oldid=57113 5* 03Challenger5 5* (+25) 10
> 1533101863 740322 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07CJam-Flavored Underload14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57119&oldid=57117 5* 03Challenger5 5* (+29) 10
> 1533101928 331903 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Momema14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57120&oldid=54163 5* 03Challenger5 5* (+25) 10
< 1533102100 493065 :jorik1!~jorik@220.74.42.50 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533102104 142171 :jorik1!~jorik@220.74.42.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
< 1533102107 590837 :jorik1!~jorik@220.74.42.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
< 1533102111 79186 :jorik1!~jorik@220.74.42.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
< 1533102114 722427 :jorik1!~jorik@220.74.42.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
< 1533102161 13419 :jorik1!~jorik@220.74.42.50 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533102594 941484 :radiofree27!~radiofree@p2871113-ipngn22801marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533102598 694853 :radiofree27!~radiofree@p2871113-ipngn22801marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp PRIVMSG #esoteric :With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
< 1533102602 190081 :radiofree27!~radiofree@p2871113-ipngn22801marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
< 1533102605 651266 :radiofree27!~radiofree@p2871113-ipngn22801marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
< 1533102608 618545 :radiofree27!~radiofree@p2871113-ipngn22801marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
< 1533102641 139477 :radiofree27!~radiofree@p2871113-ipngn22801marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1533102936 616454 :guest3546!~guest3546@host-120-75.orpopcs.portland.or.us.clients.pavlovmedia.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533102940 383588 :guest3546!~guest3546@host-120-75.orpopcs.portland.or.us.clients.pavlovmedia.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
< 1533102943 691546 :guest3546!~guest3546@host-120-75.orpopcs.portland.or.us.clients.pavlovmedia.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
< 1533102947 254408 :guest3546!~guest3546@host-120-75.orpopcs.portland.or.us.clients.pavlovmedia.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
< 1533102950 378588 :guest3546!~guest3546@host-120-75.orpopcs.portland.or.us.clients.pavlovmedia.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
< 1533103001 426033 :guest3546!~guest3546@host-120-75.orpopcs.portland.or.us.clients.pavlovmedia.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533103644 16126 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yebwfxajzsedtxtl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533104755 685452 :tx29!~tx@185.189.52.29 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533104764 503941 :tx29!~tx@185.189.52.29 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533105502 487075 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1533105532 558407 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Momema14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57121&oldid=57120 5* 03Challenger5 5* (+2590) 10
< 1533105776 634912 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1533105888 486069 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533106181 775204 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533106202 256142 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533106227 928427 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533106285 513713 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533106985 872387 :red-00123!~red-001@d173-238-13-171.home4.cgocable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533106989 914304 :red-00123!~red-001@d173-238-13-171.home4.cgocable.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
< 1533106992 912670 :red-00123!~red-001@d173-238-13-171.home4.cgocable.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
< 1533106996 850064 :red-00123!~red-001@d173-238-13-171.home4.cgocable.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
< 1533107000 629513 :red-00123!~red-001@d173-238-13-171.home4.cgocable.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
< 1533107082 721692 :red-00123!~red-001@d173-238-13-171.home4.cgocable.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533107155 748185 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh
< 1533107246 306816 :beaver6!~beaver@154.73.246.60 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533107249 949760 :beaver6!~beaver@154.73.246.60 PRIVMSG #esoteric :With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
< 1533107253 406861 :beaver6!~beaver@154.73.246.60 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
< 1533107256 942921 :beaver6!~beaver@154.73.246.60 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
< 1533107260 5965 :beaver6!~beaver@154.73.246.60 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
< 1533107380 413414 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: if you're around, could you consider something like  +q $~a  or  +r? This spam is getting a bit out of hand right now, and the spammers aren't even caught by Sigyn anymore because, either because they're staying away from the big channels now or because all those channels are blocking these messages so Sigyn can't see them (I don't know which it is).
< 1533107613 921856 :beaver6!~beaver@154.73.246.60 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1533107858 658710 :guntbert24!~guntbert@220.93.35.192 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533107862 328726 :guntbert24!~guntbert@220.93.35.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
< 1533107865 786921 :guntbert24!~guntbert@220.93.35.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
< 1533107869 310856 :guntbert24!~guntbert@220.93.35.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
< 1533107872 439410 :guntbert24!~guntbert@220.93.35.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
< 1533107899 487841 :guntbert24!~guntbert@220.93.35.192 QUIT :Killed (Unit193 (Spam is not permitted on freenode.))
< 1533108082 149669 :janus29!~janus@205.185.209.179 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533108085 823037 :janus29!~janus@205.185.209.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
< 1533108089 272903 :janus29!~janus@205.185.209.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
< 1533108092 758202 :janus29!~janus@205.185.209.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
< 1533108095 848782 :janus29!~janus@205.185.209.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
< 1533108161 483209 :janus29!~janus@205.185.209.179 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533108174 440067 :dwC--!~dwC--@79.115.167.206 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533108174 457626 :dwC--!~dwC--@79.115.167.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
< 1533108174 457705 :dwC--!~dwC--@79.115.167.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
< 1533108174 457783 :dwC--!~dwC--@79.115.167.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
< 1533108178 55099 :dwC--!~dwC--@79.115.167.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
< 1533108282 8583 :dwC--!~dwC--@79.115.167.206 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533108294 411523 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGIRL, dying...
< 1533108334 10063 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: mniip: grumble: oh you have power here as well
< 1533108389 488252 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think? Or is adding freenode-staff to the access list cosmetic?)
< 1533108459 90806 :Yoda6!~Yoda@dhcp-ubr2-53217.tvs12.jp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533108462 774851 :Yoda6!~Yoda@dhcp-ubr2-53217.tvs12.jp PRIVMSG #esoteric :With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
< 1533108466 70029 :Yoda6!~Yoda@dhcp-ubr2-53217.tvs12.jp PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
< 1533108469 794854 :Yoda6!~Yoda@dhcp-ubr2-53217.tvs12.jp PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
< 1533108472 755047 :Yoda6!~Yoda@dhcp-ubr2-53217.tvs12.jp PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
< 1533108521 951812 :Yoda6!~Yoda@dhcp-ubr2-53217.tvs12.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533108898 587700 :mniip!mniip@freenode/staff/mniip PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, "freenode-staff" is cosmetic
< 1533108920 264787 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sad
< 1533108969 572521 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah I guess it should be *!*@freenode/staff/* to be effective
< 1533109588 42214 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION still ill but less so

< 1533109654 460456 :SakiiR17!~SakiiR@182.73.219.18 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533109658 117994 :SakiiR17!~SakiiR@182.73.219.18 PRIVMSG #esoteric :With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
< 1533109662 757228 :SakiiR17!~SakiiR@182.73.219.18 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
< 1533109665 835366 :SakiiR17!~SakiiR@182.73.219.18 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
< 1533109668 315236 :SakiiR17!~SakiiR@182.73.219.18 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
< 1533109715 251966 :SakiiR17!~SakiiR@182.73.219.18 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1533109836 593517 :Matrixiumn!~Matrixium@121.147.154.153 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533109840 795880 :Matrixiumn!~Matrixium@121.147.154.153 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533110580 426754 :matze16!~matze@190.200.21.203 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533110580 426829 :matze16!~matze@190.200.21.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
< 1533110580 426853 :matze16!~matze@190.200.21.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
< 1533110580 487010 :matze16!~matze@190.200.21.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
< 1533110584 271171 :matze16!~matze@190.200.21.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
< 1533110680 736998 :matze16!~matze@190.200.21.203 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533111614 629604 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533111620 527765 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh great, our channel is hit by those spambots freenode warned about
< 1533111629 656797 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://freenode.net/news/spambot-attack
< 1533111713 824591 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is why I should make a custom IRC client, which facilitates retroactively hiding those spam messages from the history
< 1533111812 588727 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're probably using a nice botnet of computers they easily infected with malware
< 1533112786 701882 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533112786 935216 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a QUIT :Changing host
< 1533112786 935259 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533112816 2480 :sins-!~sins-@37.150.20.218 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533112841 855970 :sins-!~sins-@37.150.20.218 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533113358 116296 :Turska-13!~Turska-@222.102.255.54 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533113361 896404 :Turska-13!~Turska-@222.102.255.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
< 1533113365 74417 :Turska-13!~Turska-@222.102.255.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
< 1533113368 580927 :Turska-13!~Turska-@222.102.255.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
< 1533113371 667877 :Turska-13!~Turska-@222.102.255.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
< 1533113380 624487 :Turska-13!~Turska-@222.102.255.54 QUIT :Killed (Unit193 (Spam is not permitted on freenode.))
< 1533113849 234450 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533114059 383000 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533114366 8921 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1533115141 824109 :VM_21!~VM_@c-73-156-31-104.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533115145 612440 :VM_21!~VM_@c-73-156-31-104.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
< 1533115149 72942 :VM_21!~VM_@c-73-156-31-104.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
< 1533115152 420725 :VM_21!~VM_@c-73-156-31-104.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
< 1533115155 623380 :VM_21!~VM_@c-73-156-31-104.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
< 1533115242 160621 :VM_21!~VM_@c-73-156-31-104.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533115335 227561 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533115639 700996 :SopaXT!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533115648 210295 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533115777 370797 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1533115777 766516 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1533115934 227806 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533116052 980917 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru NICK :arseniiv
< 1533116206 704640 :SopaXT!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker NICK :SopaXorzTaker
< 1533117113 781708 :siso_!~siso_@cm-84.212.49.181.getinternet.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533117117 485988 :siso_!~siso_@cm-84.212.49.181.getinternet.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
< 1533117120 810213 :siso_!~siso_@cm-84.212.49.181.getinternet.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
< 1533117124 391513 :siso_!~siso_@cm-84.212.49.181.getinternet.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
< 1533117127 376148 :siso_!~siso_@cm-84.212.49.181.getinternet.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
< 1533117162 589665 :siso_!~siso_@cm-84.212.49.181.getinternet.no QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533119180 335345 :lebster8!~lebster@194.88.143.42 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533119202 58007 :lebster8!~lebster@194.88.143.42 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533120116 760976 :NvpkD1y7Ez!~NvpkD1y7E@2800:bf0:9fff:fb11:9e74:1aff:fec7:9d10 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533120120 477832 :NvpkD1y7Ez!~NvpkD1y7E@2800:bf0:9fff:fb11:9e74:1aff:fec7:9d10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
< 1533120123 923193 :NvpkD1y7Ez!~NvpkD1y7E@2800:bf0:9fff:fb11:9e74:1aff:fec7:9d10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
< 1533120128 126139 :NvpkD1y7Ez!~NvpkD1y7E@2800:bf0:9fff:fb11:9e74:1aff:fec7:9d10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
< 1533120130 433483 :NvpkD1y7Ez!~NvpkD1y7E@2800:bf0:9fff:fb11:9e74:1aff:fec7:9d10 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
< 1533120391 396346 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533120434 801075 :NvpkD1y7Ez!~NvpkD1y7E@2800:bf0:9fff:fb11:9e74:1aff:fec7:9d10 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1533120490 677881 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.213.136.44 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533120686 6562 :kg13!~kg@FL1-60-239-68-113.okn.mesh.ad.jp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533120687 204474 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1533120689 733126 :kg13!~kg@FL1-60-239-68-113.okn.mesh.ad.jp PRIVMSG #esoteric :With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
< 1533120693 70397 :kg13!~kg@FL1-60-239-68-113.okn.mesh.ad.jp PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
< 1533120696 498676 :kg13!~kg@FL1-60-239-68-113.okn.mesh.ad.jp PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
< 1533120699 869215 :kg13!~kg@FL1-60-239-68-113.okn.mesh.ad.jp PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
< 1533120707 846236 :kg13!~kg@FL1-60-239-68-113.okn.mesh.ad.jp QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1533120872 711772 :shenglong29!~shenglong@216.151.180.127 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533120881 902274 :shenglong29!~shenglong@216.151.180.127 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533121004 884503 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yebwfxajzsedtxtl QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1533121259 120493 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533121420 292632 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.213.136.44 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1533121576 477323 :UncleSamuel2!~UncleSamu@2.152.25.220.dyn.user.ono.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533121602 333829 :UncleSamuel2!~UncleSamu@2.152.25.220.dyn.user.ono.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533121623 48277 :rud0lf16!~rud0lf@cpe-66-75-250-213.san.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533121626 760428 :rud0lf16!~rud0lf@cpe-66-75-250-213.san.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
< 1533121630 240909 :rud0lf16!~rud0lf@cpe-66-75-250-213.san.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
< 1533121633 666588 :rud0lf16!~rud0lf@cpe-66-75-250-213.san.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
< 1533121636 756558 :rud0lf16!~rud0lf@cpe-66-75-250-213.san.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
< 1533121722 380163 :rud0lf16!~rud0lf@cpe-66-75-250-213.san.res.rr.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533121914 25060 :kl420025!~kl4200@KD106168002246.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533121917 725362 :kl420025!~kl4200@KD106168002246.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp PRIVMSG #esoteric :With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
< 1533121921 691159 :kl420025!~kl4200@KD106168002246.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
< 1533121925 21081 :kl420025!~kl4200@KD106168002246.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
< 1533121928 14621 :kl420025!~kl4200@KD106168002246.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
< 1533121961 585299 :kl420025!~kl4200@KD106168002246.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533122078 279582 :ByronJohnson4!~ByronJohn@203.229.97.28 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533122081 914310 :ByronJohnson4!~ByronJohn@203.229.97.28 PRIVMSG #esoteric :With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
< 1533122082 133379 :ByronJohnson4!~ByronJohn@203.229.97.28 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533122332 318697 :lino!~lino@171.241.73.254 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533122332 468538 :lino!~lino@171.241.73.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
< 1533122332 485943 :lino!~lino@171.241.73.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
< 1533122332 617914 :lino!~lino@171.241.73.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
< 1533122334 201113 :lino!~lino@171.241.73.254 QUIT :K-Lined
< 1533122791 567183 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, we're big enough to get spam.
< 1533122879 606819 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric :+r
< 1533122894 510383 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's maybe do that for now? 
< 1533123058 222036 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you know +s would be enough to stop them from coming, LMK.
< 1533123171 663848 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, +r or +q $~a  are the recommended ways, I think (the latter lets people join but not speak)
< 1533123196 659012 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(people without nameserv registration that is)
< 1533123243 893600 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: do you think we should have *!*@freenode/staff/* on the access list, maybe?
< 1533123265 532045 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. NOTICE #esoteric :fizzie quieted $~a
< 1533123265 602075 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +q :$~a
< 1533123276 737322 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the quiet is nicer.
< 1533123294 387209 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: don't forget the -r or it will make no difference
< 1533123320 590520 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :fizzie
< 1533123324 758375 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie MODE #esoteric :-r
< 1533123327 656881 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie MODE #esoteric -o :fizzie
< 1533123336 91093 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheers
< 1533123372 699123 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I set it via mlock originally, but I guess just removing the mlock doesn't actually make ChanServ do anything, and I wasn't sure we want -r enforced like that.
< 1533123445 577963 :mon8!~mon@49.163.143.13 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533123494 973260 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now we'll assume every new person joining is a spammer, though. :/
< 1533123523 275168 :mon8!~mon@49.163.143.13 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533123558 581555 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah there's no good solution
< 1533123594 145378 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but at least that traffic shouldn't highlight the channel)
< 1533123761 286932 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Added *!*@freenode/staff/* to the access list as well, with the flags +voAti per some random recommendation.
< 1533124857 161750 :MikeoftheEast!~Mikeofthe@KD106172077142.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533124962 468554 :MikeoftheEast!~Mikeofthe@KD106172077142.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533125458 367524 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think just +o would enough (or I guess +vo would be more common maybe)
< 1533125485 857066 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget what the other ones do offhand :D
< 1533125657 318413 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533125727 948276 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: +i may be helpful to get in (if some rogue op makes the channel invite only or password protected)... +t is probably useless; +A makes no difference for a channel with publicly visible access list. but +o should typically be enough.
< 1533125736 309518 :Guest42312!~govg@210.104.226.212 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533125758 731255 :Guest42312!~govg@210.104.226.212 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1533125987 537274 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nod*
< 1533126127 235985 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish IRC added a good way to uniquely identify client connections to other client connections even while you don't see them on a channel. This could be done as an opt-in extension, of which the server already supports a few.
< 1533126171 707221 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then the freenode staff and their bots could mark connections as spam after the fact even if they quit first, or other moderators you trust could do that too, and you could have your IRC client hide their messages even after they're alredy received.
< 1533126191 911078 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533126200 119126 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I make an irc client, I'll at least hide the messages from users who were too slow and I see the K-line for spam message.
< 1533126230 261124 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The quit messages are formatted specially by the server so the K-line messages or similar can't be faked by normal users.
< 1533126380 12629 :duoi24!~duoi@60.174.118.123 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533126542 288864 :kloeri22!~kloeri@210.222.169.139 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533126643 877456 :kloeri22!~kloeri@210.222.169.139 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533126659 713864 :duoi24!~duoi@60.174.118.123 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533126661 473275 :Yes_ma`am!~Yes_ma`am@156.211.77.233 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533126797 5503 :Algernop29!~Algernop@220.81.119.105 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533126843 734308 :Yes_ma`am!~Yes_ma`am@156.211.77.233 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533126881 898749 :Algernop29!~Algernop@220.81.119.105 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533126903 145564 :ksx4system2!~ksx4syste@180-196-24-215.aichieast1.commufa.jp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533127003 11958 :ksx4system2!~ksx4syste@180-196-24-215.aichieast1.commufa.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533127305 273681 :trnv2!jhj@prone.ws JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533127319 742386 :EXCEPTS!~EXCEPTS@42.116.58.165 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533127337 494476 :uplime-!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533127340 566594 :krysjonaz!~krysjonaz@42-147-108-123.rev.home.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533127360 77116 :EXCEPTS!~EXCEPTS@42.116.58.165 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1533127377 656949 :krysjonaz!~krysjonaz@42-147-108-123.rev.home.ne.jp QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1533127584 385137 :Vorpal_!~Vorpal@c83-253-248-2.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533127589 133636 :Vorpal_!~Vorpal@c83-253-248-2.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Changing host
< 1533127589 151213 :Vorpal_!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533127679 482920 :sftp_!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533127691 122702 :fizzie`!fis@selene.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533127694 574998 :fizzie`!fis@selene.zem.fi QUIT :Changing host
< 1533127694 634998 :fizzie`!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533127737 913510 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1533127739 193859 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1533127739 533229 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1533127739 862524 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1533127740 977618 :APic!apic@apic.name QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1533127741 508670 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1533127741 630593 :subleq!~gavin@207.173.246.52 QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1533127742 515749 :trn!jhj@prone.ws QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1533127743 513808 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1533127743 954188 :uplime!nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1533127744 955623 :trnv2!jhj@prone.ws NICK :trn
< 1533127745 266172 :uplime-!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers NICK :uplime
< 1533127751 444935 :sftp_!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp NICK :sftp
< 1533127969 285184 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1533128031 335553 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533128080 638395 :morsik0!~morsik@64.145.76.26 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533128083 949635 :morsik0!~morsik@64.145.76.26 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533128087 340125 :subleq!~gavin@207.173.246.52 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533128133 818379 :paul2520!~paul2520@paulkaefer.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533128148 115543 :paul2520!~paul2520@paulkaefer.com QUIT :Changing host
< 1533128148 115594 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533128217 201626 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533130119 594880 :Phex!~Phex@112.173.120.200 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533130123 289361 :Phex!~Phex@112.173.120.200 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533130499 737200 :Guest32399!~Guest3239@178.209.113.214 JOIN :#esoteric
> 1533130529 153366 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Kamish14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57122&oldid=54890 5* 03Kamish 5* (+0) 10
< 1533130564 354612 :Guest32399!~Guest3239@178.209.113.214 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1533130811 490939 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat quote: “If you make a comment here, it had better be either true and necessary, true and kind, or kind and necessary.”
< 1533131012 139792 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I recognize that. That's from the policy http://slatestarcodex.com/comments/
> 1533131298 927743 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57123&oldid=56962 5* 03Kamish 5* (+557) 10
< 1533131354 660852 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't necessary sufficient?
> 1533131425 766923 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57124&oldid=57123 5* 03Kamish 5* (+28) 10
< 1533131452 319946 :EvanR23!~EvanR@113.241.113.12 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533131453 885201 :EvanR23!~EvanR@113.241.113.12 QUIT :K-Lined
< 1533131467 27516 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no, see the details in that policy I linked
< 1533131550 988842 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it's a private forum where posting is a privilage, not a right you own, so you can never claim that it's necessary for you to participate. they can just ban you if you don't keep the rules.
< 1533131591 454111 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Necessary in that it’s on topic, and not only contributes something to the discussion but contributes more to the discussion than it’s likely to take away through starting a fight."
< 1533131592 873379 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Privately owned and moderated forum that is, not private for participation or reading.
< 1533131605 136092 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds like it has nothing to do with necessity?
< 1533131618 276948 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? necessity
< 1533131819 564885 :Melody\Concerto5!~Melody\Co@14.186.178.66 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533131828 432003 :Melody\Concerto5!~Melody\Co@14.186.178.66 QUIT :K-Lined
< 1533131955 565475 :albel7270!~albel727@191.14.89.156 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533131978 994227 :jackmcbarn5!~jackmcbar@119.93.79.182 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533132002 726198 :albel7270!~albel727@191.14.89.156 QUIT :Killed (Unit193 (Spam is not permitted on freenode.))
< 1533132019 205099 :jackmcbarn5!~jackmcbar@119.93.79.182 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1533133675 364711 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: thank you
< 1533134182 219097 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1533134187 646444 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1533135186 81505 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Mu614]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57125&oldid=57095 5* 03BMO 5* (+2388) 10
> 1533135265 144685 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Mu614]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57126&oldid=57125 5* 03BMO 5* (+33) 10
> 1533135319 155659 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Mu614]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57127&oldid=57126 5* 03BMO 5* (+3) 10
< 1533135402 646956 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1533135839 57637 :Facilitating!~Facilitat@46.36.84.108 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533136097 579579 :rigel4!~rigel@p57AE5E0A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533136122 670750 :rigel4!~rigel@p57AE5E0A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533136145 402617 :Facilitating!~Facilitat@46.36.84.108 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533136175 958701 :Carlos061126!~Carlos061@80.191.174.226 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533136521 960209 :Carlos061126!~Carlos061@80.191.174.226 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1533137147 579682 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1533138138 938451 :nandub!~nandub@182.65.19.155 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533138157 771612 :nandub!~nandub@182.65.19.155 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1533139171 965584 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)
< 1533139257 172709 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533139281 205261 :Liara-!~Liara-@69.16.147.209 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533139363 397319 :Liara-!~Liara-@69.16.147.209 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533140019 710516 :lolmac!~lolmac@190-205-24-27.dyn.dsl.cantv.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533140084 476799 :lolmac!~lolmac@190-205-24-27.dyn.dsl.cantv.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533141068 650188 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: +s is enough. it works for other channels.
< 1533141338 221513 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh never mind
< 1533141354 805037 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :they've started caching the channel list nowl
< 1533141366 260842 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would have to already be +s
< 1533141645 140712 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533142302 576944 :Guest47883!~Please@139.195.228.102 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533142379 412822 :Guest47883!~Please@139.195.228.102 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1533142809 145349 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1533142980 97683 :TroniQ89!~TroniQ89@41.210.30.212 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533142981 261789 :TroniQ89!~TroniQ89@41.210.30.212 QUIT :K-Lined
< 1533143220 363118 :Maven_!~Maven_@d172-218-141-239.bchsia.telus.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533143283 327678 :October!~October@181.37.62.43 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533143284 487940 :Maven_!~Maven_@d172-218-141-239.bchsia.telus.net QUIT :K-Lined
< 1533143324 966087 :October!~October@181.37.62.43 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533144299 439402 :L0S!~L0S@197.41.254.194 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533144667 437328 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533144673 369422 :L0S!~L0S@197.41.254.194 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1533144943 450884 :majestic14!~majestic@59-105-57-13.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533144947 493818 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533144984 836140 :majestic14!~majestic@59-105-57-13.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw QUIT :Killed (Unit193 (Spam is not permitted on freenode.))
< 1533145633 647700 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533146155 573331 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533146309 300973 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533146322 108747 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533146397 26499 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1533146430 741273 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
> 1533146475 963655 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FlogScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57128&oldid=44535 5* 03BradensEsolangs 5* (+26) 10
< 1533147009 112589 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1533147083 45551 :Oats87!~Oats87@190.36.71.238 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533147123 409933 :Oats87!~Oats87@190.36.71.238 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1533147221 180482 :cholcombe24!~cholcombe@ai126151014013.55.access-internet.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533147285 936678 :cholcombe24!~cholcombe@ai126151014013.55.access-internet.ne.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533147304 609084 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533147530 641638 :APic!apic@chiptune.apic.name JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533148645 210182 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533148794 255627 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGIRL, dying...
< 1533148906 355516 :SiLuman11!~SiLuman@cm-110-169-120-87.revip16.asianet.co.th JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533148966 538552 :SiLuman11!~SiLuman@cm-110-169-120-87.revip16.asianet.co.th QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533149637 348161 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533149658 66182 :Guest45420!~Guest4542@c-24-34-185-120.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533149658 578821 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :figalli won the fields medal! 
< 1533149683 582042 :Guest45420!~Guest4542@c-24-34-185-120.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
> 1533149980 957369 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07VogLang14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=57129 5* 03BradensEsolangs 5* (+574) 10Created page with "VogLang is an esolang conceived by [[User:BradensEsolangs|Braden/Ikura]]. The programs are Vogon poems, and the nonsense words are changed via a set of rules into a few instru..."
< 1533150618 543493 :hither!4c4f4c66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.79.76.102 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533150874 83849 :OGF2!~OGF@211.104.148.146 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533150884 642942 :OGF2!~OGF@211.104.148.146 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533150894 583015 :hither!4c4f4c66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.79.76.102 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1533150927 715401 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1533151012 849096 :plat_23!~plat_@46.99.251.250 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533151050 966793 :plat_23!~plat_@46.99.251.250 QUIT :K-Lined
< 1533151602 385178 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533152561 330672 :Blendify_i5!~Blendify_@175.118.172.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533152564 613536 :Blendify_i5!~Blendify_@175.118.172.168 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533152574 280266 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2
< 1533153409 240389 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533154624 636019 :timeless9!~timeless@209.107.204.88 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533154720 280093 :timeless9!~timeless@209.107.204.88 QUIT :Killed (Unit193 (Spam is not permitted on freenode.))
< 1533155120 838894 :MetaNova0!~MetaNova@189-213-99-14.static.axtel.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533155465 521856 :MetaNova0!~MetaNova@189-213-99-14.static.axtel.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533156356 968050 :EdSaperia0!~EdSaperia@41.139.243.150 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533156397 800172 :EdSaperia0!~EdSaperia@41.139.243.150 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1533157256 389688 :Arokh23!~Arokh@31.135.119.105 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533157363 144189 :Arokh23!~Arokh@31.135.119.105 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533157998 296342 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533158145 434887 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1533158645 654485 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533158734 250239 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1533158840 314149 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1533159018 301665 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533159335 435484 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533159626 382539 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533160029 116029 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1533160380 412931 :wob_jonas!b03f18d2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.210 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533160461 414463 :wob_jonas!b03f18d2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.210 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Youtube now has video ads, overlay picture ads, and these little picture ads that show up in the bottom right outside the video area, and the latter are getting terrible,
< 1533160489 116042 :wob_jonas!b03f18d2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.210 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps because everyone who actually has sense uses one of the first two possibilities, and because there's a smaller choice for Hungary.
< 1533160520 85768 :wob_jonas!b03f18d2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.210 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They've even ran an ad for what looked very much like a take your money scam, with no obvious way to report ads.
< 1533160814 320406 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-137-99.cdrr.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533161018 608123 :fizzie`!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: You might try the left sidebar "Send feedback" option and then highlighting the ad in the attached screenshot. I've no idea where that feedback goes, though. It would be better if there was a more direct reporting link. It's a shame there's not a reporting option in the small "Why this ad?" infobox.
< 1533161048 872015 :wob_jonas!b03f18d2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.210 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie`: there used to be one, I think
< 1533161051 826702 :wob_jonas!b03f18d2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.210 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or no
< 1533161052 868418 :wob_jonas!b03f18d2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.210 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean
< 1533161067 500559 :wob_jonas!b03f18d2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.210 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there used to be two little buttons on that ad
< 1533161074 947727 :wob_jonas!b03f18d2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.210 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think the other one might have led to a reporting interface
< 1533161078 842743 :wob_jonas!b03f18d2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.210 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now there's only one button
< 1533161086 663339 :fizzie`!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. I don't remember seeing it in YouTube, but I'm sure I've seen it in some other surface.
< 1533161089 108751 :wob_jonas!b03f18d2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.210 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there might still be a hidden option, but I think that ad no longer runs
< 1533161089 675651 :fizzie`!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie NICK :fizzie
< 1533161177 416418 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's still two buttons (the AdChoices triangle-i and an X that has a "Report this ad" button) on a regular Google ad banner on a random third-party site.
< 1533161197 521701 :wob_jonas!b03f18d2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.210 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1533161925 838285 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`smlist 475
< 1533161943 580411 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right.
< 1533161989 113970 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1533162323 267034 :HarryCross222!~HarryCros@180.253.3.229 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533162478 570853 :GigabytePro12!~GigabyteP@41.234.47.14 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533162657 322357 :HarryCross222!~HarryCros@180.253.3.229 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1533162706 677317 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533162819 653067 :GigabytePro12!~GigabyteP@41.234.47.14 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1533162987 667391 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533163704 332140 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533164108 339772 :threeFifths!~threeFift@69.16.147.67 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533164190 451885 :threeFifths!~threeFift@69.16.147.67 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1533164692 509479 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1533164734 48484 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1533164864 541904 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533164984 677373 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533165076 795124 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1533165121 373937 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1533165222 266664 :Warped27!~Warped@182.72.100.226 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533165249 876024 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533165573 959001 :Warped27!~Warped@182.72.100.226 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1533166057 675889 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factor 0.98 released
< 1533166072 737675 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't thought about Factor in a long time
< 1533166656 506554 :OvidiuS12!~OvidiuS@205.185.209.90 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533166726 155032 :OvidiuS12!~OvidiuS@205.185.209.90 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533166797 871925 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1533166855 488918 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533167139 462333 :nesthib!~nesthib@116.127.42.18 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533167206 497331 :nesthib!~nesthib@116.127.42.18 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
> 1533167311 83140 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10deleted "[[02VogLang10]]": Copyright violation: content was: "VogLang is an esolang conceived by [[User:BradensEsolangs|Braden/Ikura]]. The programs are Vogon poems, and th...", and the only contributor was "[[Special:Contributions/BradensEsolangs|BradensEsolangs]]" ([[User talk:BradensEsolangs|talk]])
> 1533167420 150798 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:BradensEsolangs14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=57130 5* 03Ais523 5* (+545) 10/* VogLang */ new section
< 1533168517 784179 :olsner!~salparot@c83-253-165-33.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1533168527 121470 :mynery!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533168564 203286 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533168722 385445 :olsner!~salparot@c83-253-165-33.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533169708 489357 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533171250 797942 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533171269 393582 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533171800 677597 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533172184 331280 :aykut5!~aykut@201.209.120.228 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533172244 879090 :aykut5!~aykut@201.209.120.228 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533174492 647608 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533174770 639651 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1533176732 257018 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-137-99.cdrr.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
> 1533177382 226209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57131&oldid=57124 5* 03Oerjan 5* (-585) 10That's just evil formatting. Also order.
> 1533177392 676723 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57132&oldid=57131 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+583) 10/* Radixal!!!! */ Fix (assuming the code itself works)
< 1533177488 314049 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :re latest oots, i'm worried about the vampire that got away.
< 1533177617 465403 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming she knows what to do
< 1533177644 466161 :moonlight8!~moonlight@2001:ee0:470e:c9ea:2eab:ff:fe16:c439 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533177655 539005 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533177658 785528 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar ENVA
< 1533177659 126179 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENVA 020220Z 13007KT CAVOK 12/10 Q1020 RMK WIND 670FT 16008KT
< 1533177912 100389 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-137-99.cdrr.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533177921 470296 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1533177922 294336 :moonlight8!~moonlight@2001:ee0:470e:c9ea:2eab:ff:fe16:c439 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1533181640 285968 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloerjan. how goes it
< 1533183603 93426 :thunderrd1!~thunderrd@c-174-48-73-133.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533183659 801419 :thunderrd1!~thunderrd@c-174-48-73-133.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1533183969 714862 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533184227 666160 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533184793 383757 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellopia. temperatures are starting to sink down to normal
< 1533184959 836992 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, there must be heat stored in the building because the apartment goes up to uncomfortable again once i close the door.
< 1533185016 43125 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something.
< 1533186742 410157 :pOe[!~pOe@121.162.66.167 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533186780 49548 :pOe[!~pOe@121.162.66.167 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1533187587 465432 :ikevin20!~ikevin@106.247.197.166 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533187609 927725 :ikevin20!~ikevin@106.247.197.166 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533187695 443662 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
< 1533188227 105008 :r00tobo21!~r00tobo@62.48.247.238 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533188237 164333 :r00tobo21!~r00tobo@62.48.247.238 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1533190177 651743 :plonk14!~plonk@nz0l78.bb60246.ctm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533190255 26861 :plonk14!~plonk@nz0l78.bb60246.ctm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533190309 720937 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533190606 717954 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1533190916 830496 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533191219 679455 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533191234 226693 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1533191390 334645 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1533191679 725613 :Fogity!~Fogity@hr-sgs.kvi.sgsnet.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1533191697 682405 :Fogity!~Fogity@hr-sgs.kvi.sgsnet.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533192781 669320 :supercool19!~supercool@2800:bf0:9fff:f429:ca1f:beff:fef5:61c0 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533192792 276876 :supercool19!~supercool@2800:bf0:9fff:f429:ca1f:beff:fef5:61c0 QUIT :Killed (Unit193 (Spam is not permitted on freenode.))
< 1533193168 411932 :noah10!~noah@2001:ee0:5382:b6f3:50d:1f7e:539a:a4e9 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533193203 178723 :noah10!~noah@2001:ee0:5382:b6f3:50d:1f7e:539a:a4e9 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533193401 191297 :raynold!~raynold@dhcp-24-53-253-71.cable.user.start.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533193487 606970 :raynold!~raynold@dhcp-24-53-253-71.cable.user.start.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533193547 298173 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533193814 303060 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1533194091 816989 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533194307 690381 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533194776 13616 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533195532 331473 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533195916 432984 :yaewa!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533195934 671849 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-ftxqgyxvxlfudtht QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1533195935 144932 :heroux_!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-rhuagriqwmfsvoko NICK :heroux
< 1533195968 910160 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-002-203-102-060.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1533195968 910210 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1533195985 540867 :trout!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533196005 48599 :heroux_!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-pnafyupohykudtvt JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533196006 391850 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-002-203-102-060.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533196196 812593 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1533196353 326039 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1533197023 382944 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533197272 879829 :mynery!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PART :#esoteric
< 1533197371 117188 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533197716 469848 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533197878 519933 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533198063 469711 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1533198086 916627 :trout!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1533198308 982924 :blocked29!~blocked@113.172.176.148 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533198502 421422 :xCore!~xCore@220.117.105.198 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533198529 193899 :xCore!~xCore@220.117.105.198 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533198651 269330 :blocked29!~blocked@113.172.176.148 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533198666 289661 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533199873 326392 :trout!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533200065 639268 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1533200800 698797 :nOgAnOo!~nOgAnOo@81.80.202.138 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533200810 169707 :nOgAnOo!~nOgAnOo@81.80.202.138 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533201881 743837 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533202011 304697 :trout!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533202563 74670 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533202761 302641 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533202925 471791 :yaewa!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving...
< 1533203744 612721 :trout!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533203770 2468 :impomatic!~digital_w@host81-136-108-185.range81-136.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1533203902 51747 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1533204073 346574 :atk26!~atk@58.210.8.132 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533204169 251369 :atk26!~atk@58.210.8.132 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533204381 981916 :Adbray16!~Adbray@113.172.17.54 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533204698 197344 :Adbray16!~Adbray@113.172.17.54 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1533205351 19292 :zeroed9!~zeroed@42-144-28-19.rev.home.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533205383 974911 :zeroed9!~zeroed@42-144-28-19.rev.home.ne.jp QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1533205564 700883 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533205767 147921 :trout!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1533206232 218149 :manish0!~manish@93.84.221.199 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533206328 874818 :manish0!~manish@93.84.221.199 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533206681 599554 :aloril_!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533206842 17242 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-bceef5-242.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1533206911 30368 :Zalabaslea!~Zalabasle@37.114.165.12 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533207219 750230 :Zalabaslea!~Zalabasle@37.114.165.12 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1533207481 345960 :trout!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533207672 3846 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1533207840 432629 :shah11!~shah@ppp-124-120-156-102.revip2.asianet.co.th JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533207888 722363 :shah11!~shah@ppp-124-120-156-102.revip2.asianet.co.th QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533207891 846571 :incomprehensibly!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-blulycqbzohgwgwq QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533208045 992849 :incomprehensibly!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bxahrhyjexjbbfbl JOIN :#esoteric
> 1533209094 834628 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:ObCode14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57133&oldid=52865 5* 03Wastl 5* (+775) 10/* DEF instruction parameter order */ new section
< 1533209398 442297 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533209586 8161 :trout!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
> 1533210160 715504 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ObCode14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57134&oldid=57112 5* 03Wastl 5* (+971) 10added interpreter link and proof of Turing-completeness
< 1533210206 395700 :TheWhiteBadger!~thewhiteb@213.159.49.88 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533210215 256592 :TheWhiteBadger!~thewhiteb@213.159.49.88 PART #esoteric :"Leaving"
< 1533211142 372419 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533211250 212905 :trout!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533211281 611409 :trout!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Client Quit
< 1533211472 243753 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1533211620 441515 :wonklet!~wonklet@176.41.232.154 JOIN :#esoteric
> 1533211760 326578 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03VOID 5*  10New user account
< 1533211864 294304 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lzjaqqgwfaklhagp JOIN :#esoteric
> 1533212641 149131 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Dngnogu 5*  10New user account
< 1533212719 742340 :wonklet!~wonklet@176.41.232.154 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
> 1533213788 849788 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57135&oldid=57087 5* 03Dngnogu 5* (+271) 10/* Introductions */
> 1533213846 409280 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brain14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57136&oldid=49990 5* 03Dngnogu 5* (+1) 10/* Implemented */
< 1533213907 621781 :kloeri11!~kloeri@14.186.176.101 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533214043 182649 :anzuof23!~anzuof@134.236.83.17 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533214118 488117 :anzuof23!~anzuof@134.236.83.17 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1533214185 439840 :kloeri11!~kloeri@14.186.176.101 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533214707 734420 :Fogity!~Fogity@hr-sgs.kvi.sgsnet.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533214790 446370 :Fogity!~Fogity@hr-sgs.kvi.sgsnet.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533214997 762214 :metax!~metax@197.50.25.231 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533215165 313022 :metax!~metax@197.50.25.231 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533215777 354720 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1533216480 244912 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533216550 464067 :Caraway15!~Caraway@84-10-80-52.static.chello.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533216588 480907 :Caraway15!~Caraway@84-10-80-52.static.chello.pl QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1533217398 781612 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Stylish plugin for Mozilla is great because it lets me make ugly sites more readable on a somewhat permanent basis, but its new built-in warnings are very annoying.
< 1533217430 616931 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533217462 414819 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it warns about selectors I use being apparently overspecified. but I'm deliberately use such selectors because I'm overriding the crazy overly specific selectors and overly redundant rules of the site's CSS.
< 1533217682 642336 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
> 1533218143 395654 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Preprocessor14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=57137 5* 03A 5* (+2059) 10Created page with "==Syntax== ===Conditions=== The if-else directives if, ifdef, ifndef, else, elif and end can be used for conditional compilation.   if VERBOSE >= 2    print("trace message");..."
> 1533218169 191130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Preprocessor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57138&oldid=57137 5* 03A 5* (+5) 10/* Syntax */
> 1533218188 570636 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Preprocessor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57139&oldid=57138 5* 03A 5* (+2) 10/* Identifiers */
> 1533218199 306140 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Preprocessor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57140&oldid=57139 5* 03A 5* (-42) 10/* Identifiers */
< 1533218210 971512 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
> 1533218340 637643 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Preprocessor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57141&oldid=57140 5* 03A 5* (-294) 10
> 1533218367 339484 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Preprocessor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57142&oldid=57141 5* 03A 5* (-15) 10
< 1533219109 682585 :uplime!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers NICK :nchambers
< 1533219207 884734 :Metacity13!~Metacity@x225088.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533219290 156890 :Metacity13!~Metacity@x225088.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533219845 398290 :Fogity!~Fogity@hr-sgs.kvi.sgsnet.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533219985 431098 :Fogity!~Fogity@hr-sgs.kvi.sgsnet.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533221644 123292 :irv4!~irv@27.34.52.24 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533221876 708149 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lzjaqqgwfaklhagp QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1533221964 508369 :irv4!~irv@27.34.52.24 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1533223482 679422 :rasengan10!~rasengan@dsl-197-245-36-186.voxdsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533223762 471572 :rasengan10!~rasengan@dsl-197-245-36-186.voxdsl.co.za QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1533223972 951083 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1533224933 995718 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533225141 808578 :sins-!~sins-@st0361.nas931.ichikawa.nttpc.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533225164 98567 :sins-!~sins-@st0361.nas931.ichikawa.nttpc.ne.jp QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1533225445 838762 :czart_!~czart_@171.238.157.17 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533225457 493682 :czart_!~czart_@171.238.157.17 NICK :Guest30330
< 1533225631 147557 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533225656 200822 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PART :#esoteric
< 1533225785 414348 :Guest30330!~czart_@171.238.157.17 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533226719 298565 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533227308 758225 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533227577 671380 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533227953 348941 :bairdmich!~bairdmich@37.114.190.228 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533227989 672608 :Arokh3!~Arokh@135-23-223-243.cpe.pppoe.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533228048 169567 :Arokh3!~Arokh@135-23-223-243.cpe.pppoe.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533228157 760718 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533228287 942722 :bairdmich!~bairdmich@37.114.190.228 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533229286 294793 :wob_jonas!b03f185e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.94 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533229460 88239 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533230427 452093 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533232215 101242 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533232565 424184 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-137-99.cdrr.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533232691 953988 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533233199 356165 :imode1!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533233325 974664 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1533233401 84765 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533233505 402619 :imode1!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1533234047 112004 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533234459 928292 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533234484 594565 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533235479 78968 :imode1!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533235479 628345 :imode1!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1533235559 79076 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1533235834 682823 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533236684 965535 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2
< 1533236728 95869 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533237134 204704 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1533237260 435144 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533237515 386966 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533238340 492057 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533239007 692281 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533239128 469040 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533239393 465268 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1533241050 402980 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@71-212-0-238.tukw.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533241585 88140 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-btmqkvhstepyytxz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533241817 984357 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2
< 1533241835 420295 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@71-212-0-238.tukw.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533241837 483048 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGIRL, dying...
< 1533241919 117543 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533242254 757641 :wob_jonas!b03f185e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.94 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1533242391 539820 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533242457 407062 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 QUIT :Changing host
< 1533242457 407117 :tswett!d047504c@unaffiliated/tswett JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533242457 467169 :tswett!d047504c@unaffiliated/tswett QUIT :Changing host
< 1533242457 467226 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533242468 660545 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahoy.
< 1533242475 155688 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Allow me to introduce...
< 1533242479 189169 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oversized digit notation!
< 1533242486 823939 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm all ears.
< 1533242494 20393 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A number within brackets indicates a single digit whose value is that number.
< 1533242525 592114 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, for example, 1[12]6 is a three-digit number where the digit in the 100s place is 1, the digit in the 10s place is 12, and the digit in the 1s place is 6.
< 1533242587 115846 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use this notation to represent intermediate results in arithmetic before carrying has been performed.
< 1533242589 86010 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like...
< 1533242595 831027 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14 * 14 = 18[16] = 196
< 1533242610 367801 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :15 * 15 = 1[10][25] = 225
< 1533242632 576996 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :partially useful! :)
< 1533242702 434399 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, now that is interesting.
< 1533242717 498115 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but why calling it oversized, is it more like overflown?)
< 1533242728 151229 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn’t*
< 1533242741 378918 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug*
< 1533242775 743338 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can nest it to make weird stuff like 1[1[10]].
< 1533242790 306609 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh!
< 1533242848 604907 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes oversized digit notation corresponds to non-standard English words...
< 1533242858 121327 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :19 = nineteen, 1[10] = tenteen, 1[11] = eleventeen
< 1533242871 13910 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1[1[10]] = tenteenteen, of course.
< 1533242975 399240 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533243092 772281 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: that's basically what an abacus does
< 1533243202 951293 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on the version you have, only up to 14, though
< 1533243268 737069 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw there’s a notation my friend had suggested a while ago, "" = 1, "[]" = nthprime("") = 2, "[[]]" = nthprime("[]") = 3, "[][]" = "[]" × "[]" = 4, "[[[]]]" = 5, "[][[]]" = 6 etc.)
< 1533243369 10268 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533243396 136549 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: hmmm, I have an idea similar to that one.
< 1533243407 615211 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same thing, except that it's the successor function instead of nthprime.
< 1533243418 514993 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Concatenation is multiplication and parentheses indicate adding 1.
< 1533243434 234328 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is like oe of the basic definitions of natural numbers based on sets
< 1533243437 293908 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So () is 2, (()) is 3, ()() is 4, (()()) is 5.
< 1533243737 321834 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are many representations for the same number, though: ()() = ((())). In the previous thing, there are also many representations, but the only one modulo swapping balanced bracked groups. It’s why I didn’t forget :D
< 1533243763 54878 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup.
< 1533243814 614766 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :()()()() = ()()((())) = ()((((((())))))) = ((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))
< 1533243844 882052 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love balanced bracket strings
< 1533243883 320199 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's something beautiful about them.
< 1533244480 407345 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :((())(
< 1533244622 295019 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
> 1533244630 937371 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Preprocessor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57143&oldid=57142 5* 03A 5* (+68) 10
< 1533244949 630948 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-137-99.cdrr.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1533245709 626238 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Preprocessor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57144&oldid=57143 5* 03A 5* (-727) 10
> 1533245795 625050 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Preprocessor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57145&oldid=57144 5* 03A 5* (-69) 10
< 1533245802 551050 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1533245856 287774 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: uh my eyes!
< 1533245863 940047 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
> 1533246419 103736 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Preprocessor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57146&oldid=57145 5* 03A 5* (+317) 10
< 1533246421 145151 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? limerick
> 1533246441 334844 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Preprocessor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57147&oldid=57146 5* 03A 5* (+3) 10
> 1533246912 724129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Preprocessor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57148&oldid=57147 5* 03A 5* (+522) 10
> 1533247316 970867 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Preprocessor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57149&oldid=57148 5* 03A 5* (+160) 10
> 1533247381 141268 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Preprocessor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57150&oldid=57149 5* 03A 5* (+37) 10/* Computational Class */
> 1533247581 194645 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57151&oldid=56998 5* 03A 5* (+33) 10
< 1533248041 579661 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533248233 663616 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1533248640 110060 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Recursoin14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=57152 5* 03A 5* (+1173) 10Created page with "'''Recursoin''' is an [[esoteric programming language]] by [[User:A]].  Variables are defined like: var = bar {| |- | valign="top" | <code>+<br>-</code> | valign="top" | do ma..."
> 1533248760 137963 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Recursoin14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57153&oldid=57152 5* 03A 5* (-176) 10
> 1533249255 943450 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Recursoin14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57154&oldid=57153 5* 03A 5* (+339) 10
< 1533249384 64649 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1533249576 140715 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533249594 69734 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
> 1533249624 266510 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FizzBuzz14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57155&oldid=57012 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10Your C example has a flaw:you should use "and".
> 1533249818 171453 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FizzBuzz14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57156&oldid=57155 5* 03A 5* (-32) 10:( I found another: it is unnecessary to print"number=".
> 1533250028 707323 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FizzBuzz14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57157&oldid=57156 5* 03A 5* (-18) 10Hmm...Just directly print "Fizz", "Buzz", or "FizzBuzz". No need to output the number.
> 1533250411 859480 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FizzBuzz14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57158&oldid=57157 5* 03A 5* (+22) 10Some small improvements:I evaluated the expression"(i%3)&&(i%5)" into "(i%15)", making it more readable.
< 1533250629 634544 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure on some channel we used to have a bot that made sure there's always as many (s as there are of )s.
< 1533250632 638197 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's important, a channel might tip over if the balance isn't maintained.
< 1533250727 725867 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happens if you write ) before (?
< 1533250743 698754 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also what happened to HackEso?
< 1533250768 262568 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :)))))))))))))))))))))
< 1533250957 639809 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533250993 490636 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533251249 705772 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1533251787 914503 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533251817 765317 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533253166 954870 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2
< 1533253318 668823 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
> 1533253570 263415 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57159&oldid=56984 5* 03A 5* (+27) 10
> 1533253643 717560 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57160&oldid=57075 5* 03A 5* (+19) 10I don't know how to place chinese here.
< 1533253965 555260 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
> 1533253982 911859 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57161&oldid=57151 5* 03A 5* (+261) 10
> 1533254083 562152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57162&oldid=57161 5* 03A 5* (+19) 10
> 1533254121 117774 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57163&oldid=57162 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10Mistake
< 1533254240 404607 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533254555 385055 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
> 1533255074 173580 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Looping counter14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57164&oldid=56736 5* 03A 5* (-8) 10My description is too complicated.
< 1533255978 496981 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
> 1533256943 108323 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Looping counter14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57165&oldid=57164 5* 03A 5* (+196) 10Include more understandable Brainfuck implementation
< 1533257309 82262 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should totally try to design my own Tcl OO system
< 1533257329 9478 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1533257352 532569 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone on Twitter reminded me Tcl existed, and I have it stuck in my head now
< 1533257370 677997 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The model of objects where they're just strings that know what to do via {*} fascinates me
< 1533257388 377887 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. {*}$someObject somemethod
< 1533257397 663336 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533257405 565819 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :$someObject could just be a lambda that switches on the somemethod argument
< 1533257426 556777 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not make an OO system for Ada?
< 1533257439 180207 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No need to worry about garbage collection in this model, unlike other models where each object is a command, and Tcl can't just clean up commands
< 1533257443 679525 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533257453 860199 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I'm thinking lambdas are a little bit scow for control flow.
< 1533257460 398118 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In most languages, at least.
< 1533257470 667235 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is mostly unrelated to what you're saying.
< 1533257497 473093 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sics GL Steele on shachaf 

< 1533257498 945838 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ruby has a special case to make things like this work: def f(a); a.each {|x| return true if x == 5 }; return false; end
< 1533257533 938008 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where that's a lambda that can return from the scope it was created in. If you return a lambda like that, it fails at runtime.
< 1533257544 19519 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You could also make it use continuations, but...)
< 1533257557 863433 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tcl control flow is string and eval based. 
< 1533257601 290189 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there anything that uses lambdas for control flow for this sort of thing? How does it work?
< 1533257693 307346 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should learn Tcl. seems the interpreters for it are pretty complicated though.
> 1533257778 600749 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Looping counter14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57166&oldid=57165 5* 03A 5* (-4) 10/* Examples */
< 1533257803 472154 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest learning it properly via tutorials or other documentation, rather than via osmosis of real life examples. It's the sort of language where things one might not expect to make a difference can
< 1533257837 311297 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would it compare with something like forth, which is similarly untyped.
< 1533257855 851472 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :mainly interested in the implementation of the language. can I write a Tcl in a weekend?
< 1533257890 320408 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not an implement a language person. I think it would be simple to implement the syntax rules, at least.
< 1533258044 791278 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :iamcalledbob and A should be banned from the wiki, they've created a lot of junk articles. cmv.
> 1533258355 810837 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Looping counter14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57167&oldid=57166 5* 03A 5* (+122) 10/* Examples */
< 1533258451 582733 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-137-99.cdrr.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
> 1533258498 653777 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57168&oldid=57160 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+0) 10ginorst + cdeeginnors
> 1533258516 242603 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Looping counter14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57169&oldid=57167 5* 03A 5* (-122) 10
< 1533258527 446985 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm esowiki isn't ... oh
< 1533258565 227345 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEso isn't responding, though.
< 1533258574 142704 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :like there's literally a language called "String rewriting paradigm".
< 1533258588 360348 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :that qualifies as a stub. someone's trolling.
< 1533258594 64860 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait that's caught by my pribate +R
< 1533258599 70269 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid stuff
< 1533258603 399991 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo hi
< 1533258611 333690 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :oerjan
< 1533258622 436821 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems that the spam has stopped for now.
< 1533258634 122640 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least for a few hours.
< 1533258643 183456 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm.
< 1533258662 398372 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed PART :#esoteric
> 1533258685 574395 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Looping counter14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57170&oldid=57169 5* 03A 5* (-5) 10/* Examples */
< 1533258824 423295 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533258825 881761 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo hi are you there
< 1533258826 747087 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi are you there
< 1533258837 134086 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no MODE #esoteric -o :oerjan
< 1533258863 779091 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Yes, approximately that is what a yard is. More precisely, it is three feet.
< 1533258866 1222 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "is lambdabot registered?"
< 1533258867 786226 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : "is lambdabot registered?"
< 1533258869 921903 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1533258871 489583 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since lambdas don't seem work very well for control constructs without hacks or continuations, how should user-defined control constructs work?
< 1533258886 71367 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it might be a good idea to register them, just in case.
< 1533258906 350647 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :One answer is to scrap early return etc. and make people use Either or something if they want it. Which is almost back to using (delimited) continuations.
< 1533258920 855831 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another answer is lisp-style macros, I guess.
< 1533258922 457938 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :To check if someone is registered with NickServ you can use the NS INFO command.
< 1533258932 526076 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there more standard answers?
< 1533258945 329227 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i think i'm not going to open the floodgates without some information that there's a more network-wide solution.
< 1533258951 898472 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK.
< 1533258957 179176 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-btmqkvhstepyytxz QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1533258977 2179 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :has this channel been hit by the spambots as well?
< 1533258981 599216 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't been around.
< 1533258989 968669 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The cloak I suppose also reveals being registered with NickServ, although it is possible to be registered and not cloaked.)
< 1533259080 330901 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-137-99.cdrr.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533259227 19138 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: yep
< 1533259242 433380 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm fungot isn't even here to test
< 1533259265 814918 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i guess it would also be on zem.fi
< 1533259358 88592 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: so it's now set +q $~a which also gives some of the bots problems
< 1533259439 790683 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also we all seem to have been set +R which means the bots cannot reach us in private either
< 1533259463 859608 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's good, I suppose.
< 1533259473 895735 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to wonder what the dude's motives are...
< 1533259482 670061 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :psychotic, he is.
< 1533259487 944441 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can unset the +R mode on yourself if you want to receive the message, or use ACCEPT command
< 1533259491 423015 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i wasn't thinking about the spam bots when i said "bots", but our trusty channel ones
< 1533259509 775223 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1533259513 289420 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :not so good then. :P
< 1533259570 487013 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i added an exception for fizzie's domain, although he might want to register them too (i guess that adds extra hassle when logging in)
< 1533259595 75896 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://wiki.tcl.tk/10225 is the sort of thing that scares me about Tcl
> 1533259892 71050 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck algorithms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57171&oldid=56365 5* 03A 5* (+122) 10/* swap x, y */
< 1533259982 684258 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: YESTERDAY CHICKEN
< 1533260260 989470 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that Preprocessor proof is so obviously wrong, sigh
< 1533260291 288428 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(he also misunderstood my proof that he's trying to base it on, although i guess the comment about 8 fixes that.)
< 1533260480 777393 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok maybe that's sane if e can actually mutate variables, but then it's not much of a CPP derivative...
< 1533260589 689797 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533260620 367626 :mahaa!~mahaaaham@142.79.92.79.rev.sfr.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533260680 781913 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way in which mediawiki's diffs can completely fail to match identical parts because of slight spacing differences is really annoying.
> 1533260694 15416 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck algorithms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57172&oldid=57171 5* 03A 5* (+28) 10/* x = not x (bitwise) */
< 1533260697 669668 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533260697 867052 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(looking at ObCode)
> 1533260725 966385 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck algorithms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57173&oldid=57172 5* 03A 5* (+41) 10/* x = not x (bitwise) */
> 1533260772 655495 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ObCode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57174&oldid=57134 5* 03Oerjan 5* (-1) 10rm newline that breaks the stupid diff
< 1533260814 80282 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah better
< 1533260869 634636 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
> 1533261001 771101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck algorithms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57175&oldid=57173 5* 03A 5* (+1) 10/* x = not x (bitwise) */
> 1533261045 134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ObCode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57176&oldid=57174 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+12) 10wikify sections
> 1533261082 968050 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck algorithms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57177&oldid=57175 5* 03A 5* (+65) 10/* x = not x (bitwise) */
> 1533261132 315777 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck algorithms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57178&oldid=57177 5* 03A 5* (+5) 10/* Wrapping */
> 1533261172 664940 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck algorithms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57179&oldid=57178 5* 03A 5* (-3) 10/* swap x, y */
< 1533261208 680274 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo reban zem.fi hth
< 1533261303 593670 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in obvious hindsight...
< 1533261441 81115 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm why are there esowiki announcements in the logs...
< 1533261452 250080 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it's actually supposed to be registered.
< 1533261467 919111 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it doesn't get quieted unless it rejoins...
> 1533261636 878803 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck algorithms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57180&oldid=57179 5* 03A 5* (+90) 10/* x = not x (boolean, logical) */
< 1533261785 432700 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533262125 822571 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm this is weird. there's a message from esowiki in the logs from several minutes after i joined that i haven't seen.
< 1533262149 21870 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1533262156 996845 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also the logging bot isn't it?
< 1533262168 94247 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man
< 1533262169 299237 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's been faking it :P
< 1533262170 167779 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pranked
< 1533262278 276151 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, the logs have my own edit that got me wondering what was up
< 1533262294 508700 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CASE CLOSED
< 1533262308 807141 :mahaa!~mahaaaham@142.79.92.79.rev.sfr.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A good affair, Bravo!
< 1533262326 485533 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION bows

> 1533262548 24634 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck algorithms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57181&oldid=57180 5* 03A 5* (+30) 10/* x = x - y */
> 1533262609 208626 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck algorithms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57182&oldid=57181 5* 03A 5* (-30) 10/* Non-wrapping */
> 1533262637 209491 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck algorithms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57183&oldid=57182 5* 03A 5* (+29) 10/* Wrapping */
> 1533262664 203181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck algorithms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57184&oldid=57183 5* 03A 5* (-19) 10/* x = x + y */
< 1533262863 429420 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533263137 339150 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
> 1533265187 61842 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck algorithms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57185&oldid=57184 5* 03A 5* (+77) 10/* Input a decimal number */
< 1533265803 411 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go and C++17 support initializers for if, as in "if (int x = f(); x > 0) { ... }". Is there any language that supports initializers for while, as in "while (int c = getchar(); c != EOF) { ... }"?
< 1533265877 734532 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely you can do that with c macros
< 1533265935 577608 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes.
< 1533265960 215864 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, y'know, sort of. With all the usual caveats about C macros.
< 1533266025 609013 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533266028 166381 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. I mean, you can get the same effect with for loops, but...
< 1533266043 61159 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you, without writing "getchar()" twice?
< 1533266066 936514 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, no.
< 1533266294 574708 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1533266621 325646 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :proc lambda {arguments body args} {
< 1533266621 325718 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :    return [list ::apply [list $arguments $body] {*}$args]
< 1533266621 325737 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :}
< 1533266634 941157 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/tcltk/tcllib/blob/master/modules/lambda/lambda.tcl
< 1533266895 138031 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, I forgot about Tcl.
< 1533266909 676343 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tcl is, uh, decidedly odd.
< 1533266959 172915 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I can't remember, doesn't while in Tcl execute the condition in the calling stack frame?
< 1533266991 738534 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. basically like it did an uplevel expr $cond
< 1533267055 539103 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uplevel 1 I think
< 1533267083 77606 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I remember you talking about liking Tcl? I liked it for a while until I found myself incapable of writing programs that don't memory leak.
< 1533267092 755868 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mutable locations don't get garbage collected.
< 1533267112 266216 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Since every mutable thing has to have a name)
< 1533267116 569077 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just because I like Tcl doesn't mean I can't admit it's decidedly odd.
< 1533267123 726499 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, its oddness is part of why I like it. :)
> 1533267228 926679 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck algorithms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57186&oldid=57185 5* 03A 5* (+108) 10/* Summing 1~n */
> 1533268423 307656 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FizzBuzz14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57187&oldid=57158 5* 03A 5* (+161) 10Add Python implementation
> 1533268660 657042 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FizzBuzz14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57188&oldid=57187 5* 03A 5* (+1) 10Shorten My Code
> 1533268852 795918 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FizzBuzz14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57189&oldid=57188 5* 03A 5* (-2) 10/* Examples */
< 1533269190 406266 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533269435 385877 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533272016 646072 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net QUIT :Quit: the creeping crawling chaos will return.
< 1533272763 635340 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533275500 10259 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533275805 965273 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1533275874 628337 :Anon_!~Anonoymou@104.237.80.2 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533275890 292305 :Anon_!~Anonoymou@104.237.80.2 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1533276295 187071 :Guest29789!~DJones@14.187.82.57 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533276627 720326 :Guest29789!~DJones@14.187.82.57 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
> 1533276751 979541 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Preprocessor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57190&oldid=57150 5* 03A 5* (-8) 10Well, since there is no changing, it is turing-complete.
> 1533276937 981727 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Preprocessor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57191&oldid=57190 5* 03A 5* (+28) 10Only 2 commands, it is a Turing-tarpit.
< 1533277224 361981 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
< 1533277314 970309 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533277535 296089 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-awapqnwhjubmfssu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533277583 434389 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533277598 682086 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1533277664 26911 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Preprocessor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57192&oldid=57191 5* 03A 5* (-1) 10Uh, operation is wrong
< 1533277676 802593 :bleepy8!~bleepy@156.211.199.46 JOIN :#esoteric
> 1533277715 264733 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Preprocessor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57193&oldid=57192 5* 03A 5* (+45) 10
> 1533277902 2569 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Preprocessor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57194&oldid=57193 5* 03A 5* (-7) 10
> 1533278003 593737 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Preprocessor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57195&oldid=57194 5* 03A 5* (-6) 10
< 1533278014 101059 :bleepy8!~bleepy@156.211.199.46 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
> 1533278283 369456 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Preprocessor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57196&oldid=57195 5* 03A 5* (+7) 10
> 1533278451 429811 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Preprocessor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57197&oldid=57196 5* 03A 5* (-94) 10
> 1533278963 455055 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Preprocessor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57198&oldid=57197 5* 03A 5* (-26) 10
> 1533279503 869780 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FizzBuzz14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57199&oldid=57189 5* 03Zzo38 5* (+155) 10TeX
> 1533279606 889945 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Post-preprocessor14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=57200 5* 03A 5* (+1964) 10Copy my text first...
< 1533279809 488307 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1533280037 971575 :Frogging10112!~Frogging1@cpe-76-168-120-196.socal.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533280114 670628 :Frogging10112!~Frogging1@cpe-76-168-120-196.socal.res.rr.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533280347 633281 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533281412 286659 :Anon!~Anonoymou@104.237.80.2 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533281429 453898 :Anon!~Anonoymou@104.237.80.2 QUIT :Client Quit
> 1533281556 856118 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Post-preprocessor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57201&oldid=57200 5* 03A 5* (-1964) 10Blanked the page
> 1533281603 143642 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Preprocessor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57202&oldid=57198 5* 03A 5* (-144) 10Examples are useless
< 1533281642 828367 :avelardi20!~avelardi@64.145.76.111 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533281648 70279 :linuxmodder24!~linuxmodd@209.197.6.149 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533281693 73694 :linuxmodder24!~linuxmodd@209.197.6.149 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533281741 81205 :avelardi20!~avelardi@64.145.76.111 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
> 1533281870 991806 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Preprocessor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57203&oldid=57202 5* 03A 5* (+22) 10Else can be represented by if
> 1533282405 359088 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Post-preprocessor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57204&oldid=57201 5* 03A 5* (+1842) 10
< 1533282662 646385 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
> 1533282854 868018 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Post-preprocessor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57205&oldid=57204 5* 03A 5* (-125) 10
> 1533282873 109412 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Post-preprocessor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57206&oldid=57205 5* 03A 5* (+9) 10
> 1533283019 660594 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Post-preprocessor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57207&oldid=57206 5* 03A 5* (-2) 10
> 1533283047 55775 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57208&oldid=57163 5* 03A 5* (+26) 10
> 1533283156 283504 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Post-preprocessor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57209&oldid=57207 5* 03A 5* (+9) 10/* Syntax */
< 1533283169 44940 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric
> 1533283377 483856 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Post-preprocessor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57210&oldid=57209 5* 03A 5* (-19) 10
< 1533283942 93812 :programmerq6!~programme@81.171.98.56 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533283950 910819 :programmerq6!~programme@81.171.98.56 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1533284843 265711 :basic`27!~basic`@209.197.26.107 JOIN :#esoteric
> 1533284937 448121 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Post-preprocessor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57211&oldid=57210 5* 03A 5* (+75) 10
< 1533284942 329054 :basic`27!~basic`@209.197.26.107 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533284970 243544 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan Good point, I didn't even consider them bots.
< 1533284970 331708 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1533285409 401958 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1533285581 186469 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533285581 536265 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a QUIT :Changing host
< 1533285581 536312 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
> 1533285724 215747 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Post-preprocessor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57212&oldid=57211 5* 03A 5* (+1107) 10
> 1533285961 833522 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Post-preprocessor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57213&oldid=57212 5* 03A 5* (-600) 10
> 1533286007 757996 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Preprocessor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57214&oldid=57203 5* 03A 5* (-85) 10
> 1533286084 542967 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Preprocessor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57215&oldid=57214 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10
< 1533286108 408408 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I say that I prefer quality over quantity when it comes to esolangs?
< 1533287403 625191 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: you can
< 1533288412 362209 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, what's happened to fungot? 
< 1533288419 356255 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, I restarted the machine.
< 1533288546 670 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a bouncer in front it now, so when it joins, it's not going to actually be responsive yet. Just thought I'd warn you.
< 1533288565 307161 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533288641 846271 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Feeling all normal again? 
< 1533288642 124735 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: and we can multiply quantum states with numbers.)
< 1533288655 418476 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Subsystems nominal, I guess.
< 1533288683 874584 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: what kinds of numbers twh
< 1533288684 637344 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: like international paper sizes?' thread. one of his friends to build an entire scheme program and a scheme list is kind of weird. even though that " should" visit espoo today, since i don't notice any fault with the gui
< 1533288910 579674 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-awapqnwhjubmfssu QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1533289825 710014 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533290192 887444 :SopaXT!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533290358 650201 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1533290433 990766 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Later it turns out the secret to solving noise issues in quantum computing was multiplying quantum states with international paper sizes.
< 1533290565 886905 :SopaXT!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1533290866 918600 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you could get an A3-sized qubit I think a lot of things would work differently
< 1533291314 55634 :mahaa!~mahaaaham@142.79.92.79.rev.sfr.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1533291329 395896 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey they finally found an elementary knightship in the game of life
< 1533291485 699611 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what some of those words mean! That sounds neat
< 1533291502 349490 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(what's a knightship? what does it mean for one to be elementary?)
< 1533291613 70857 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :knightship = travels along a vector other than (1,0) and (1,1) (modulo rotation/reflection ofc.)
< 1533291660 141361 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :elementary = not a giant million cell machine engineered to build a copy of itself along a certain vector then take itself apart
< 1533291710 540295 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's predictably very weird looking http://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/Sir_Robin
> 1533291744 144928 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Obcode14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=57216 5* 03Wastl 5* (+20) 10make redirect to ObCode
> 1533292123 226895 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Functoin14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=57217 5* 03A 5* (+695) 10Created page with "It is inspired by [[Post-preprocessor]]. ==Syntax(= command)==  f(x)=1/x`function`  f(a)=`Put your code here`,f() (a!=0)       `nothing here` (a==0)`if statement`  a=0`variabl..."
> 1533292167 336738 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57218&oldid=57208 5* 03A 5* (+14) 10
< 1533292405 729116 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That *is* neat
< 1533294353 114909 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533298759 114150 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533298808 285069 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`paste wisdom/limerick
< 1533298809 244821 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/file/tip/wisdom/limerick
< 1533298867 963917 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn The password of the month is alphanumer1c.
< 1533298869 939761 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relearned 'password': The password of the month is alphanumer1c.
< 1533299085 351893 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`' ꙮ
< 1533299086 122059 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1133) <shachaf> A Swede who was in #esoteric / Thought his rhymes were a little generic. / "I might use, in my prose, / ꙮs, / But my poetry's alphanumeric."
< 1533299096 681605 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's where it is.
< 1533299117 84400 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wc -l quotes
< 1533299117 736509 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wc: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try 'wc --help' for more information.
< 1533299121 688176 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` wc -l quotes
< 1533299122 431379 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1325 quotes
< 1533299134 519720 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` tail -2 quotes
< 1533299135 325127 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​<zzo38> Please look at the new [[BackTurn]] program language see if it is good or else what other comment/question/complaint. \ <Aearnus> i'm sending this from within a computer on minecraft
< 1533299825 130318 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: https://zem.fi/tmp/quotes.png
< 1533299883 95208 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source: hg log -T "{rev} {node|short}\n" quotes | tac | while read rev hash; do printf "%s\t%s\n" $rev $(hg cat -r $rev quotes | wc -l); done | tee ~/tmp/quotes.csv
< 1533299954 210933 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :A time axis might be nice as well.
< 1533300104 475464 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :...huh, I didn't actually use the commit hash, and didn't notice because -r accepted the revision number as well.
< 1533300154 303079 :opung28!~opung@91.83.173.35 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533300258 782857 :opung28!~opung@91.83.173.35 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533300637 710178 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :By date: https://zem.fi/tmp/quotes2.png
< 1533301295 389327 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533301423 635731 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I still think that the limit should be 1336. :P
< 1533301709 105669 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533303024 347215 :Monkeh7!~Monkeh@p2E58DE5D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533303082 433748 :Monkeh7!~Monkeh@p2E58DE5D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1533303641 787875 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533306738 443708 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1533306886 454063 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533308671 587912 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1533309107 65867 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533309624 129383 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-chxoqtbtfvymehpc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533310433 369392 :SopaXT!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533310554 17338 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1533311330 76651 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533312594 864919 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533313096 528435 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533313317 609552 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1132
< 1533313318 389395 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1132: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
< 1533313352 606049 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1533314996 125139 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*slaps roof of HackEgo* this bad boy can fit so much olist in it
< 1533315303 642716 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533315306 927891 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? olist
< 1533315308 80436 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist is update notification for the webcomic Order of the Stick. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/ootslatest.html
< 1533315321 76947 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does HackEgo have a roof?
< 1533316076 908434 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sure hope so; computers get even more irritable in the rain than most people.
< 1533316131 54393 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533317066 107641 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1533318681 666842 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533319227 23830 :SopaXT!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1533320998 691251 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-chxoqtbtfvymehpc QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1533321853 297772 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533322450 428994 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533325076 706469 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533326127 661784 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533326259 822258 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2
< 1533328131 365527 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533329301 980361 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533329309 604579 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made this computer game recently:  http://zzo38computer.org/GAMES/MEGAPANE.ZIP
< 1533329533 119783 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like this?
< 1533329843 682783 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533330065 299231 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm it's not entirely terrible :P
< 1533330452 253266 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that real number though? http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/mp.png
< 1533330552 561850 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ratio of score to rows.
< 1533330639 601814 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533330709 315144 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1533330821 517618 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGIRL, dying...
< 1533331903 55938 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I can't figure out how to make dosbox work well with my high-DPI screen.
< 1533331907 578391 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the font is too small.
< 1533332097 670731 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533333024 268499 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I have something like this in my .dosbox/dosbox-0.74.conf: http://paste.debian.net/1036624/ (those are the settings that I modified)
< 1533333166 297151 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I tried similar settings before but not quite those ones.
< 1533333182 999610 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this may still be rather small for you but you can adjust the window size accordingly; keeping it 4:3 and multiples of 640x480 are probably a good idea)
< 1533333237 279354 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a sufficient size.
< 1533333294 653028 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a language similar to C or C++ that has every function taking one argument, which might be a struct/tuple containing multiple values?
< 1533333426 943192 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know of any.
< 1533333543 379909 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering how to make it work with various things, like named arguments and varargs (and default arguments?).
< 1533333584 929791 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course you can have a calling convention that turns this into the regular C ABI.
< 1533333663 160946 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1533335661 856217 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1533335833 877215 :nope__!~nope__@p4FDD0F10.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533335880 852183 :nope__!~nope__@p4FDD0F10.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Killed (Unit193 (Spam is not permitted on freenode.))
< 1533335897 148618 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed PART :#esoteric
< 1533336719 668131 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533338355 398345 :Dworf!~Dworf@196.196.193.35 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533338368 405373 :Dworf!~Dworf@196.196.193.35 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1533338640 134535 :HackMaster20!~HackMaste@071-047-042-083.res.spectrum.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533338718 448686 :HackMaster20!~HackMaste@071-047-042-083.res.spectrum.com QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1533339508 58203 :Guest16322!~LordLionM@47.215.19.173 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533339561 235582 :Guest16322!~LordLionM@47.215.19.173 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533340058 484048 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :Quit: brb
< 1533340219 658319 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533341815 419561 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533342125 384786 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533343634 493276 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533343927 766838 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages-told
< 1533343927 827054 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie said 16h 22m 37s ago: Good point, I didn't even consider them bots.
< 1533344036 235190 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`doag quotes
< 1533344037 686182 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :11585:2018-07-21 <oerjän> addquote <Aearnus> i\'m sending this from within a computer on minecraft \ 11580:2018-07-01 <alercäh> addquote <zzo38> Please look at the new [[BackTurn]] program language see if it is good or else what other comment/question/complaint. \ 11551:2018-05-08 <oerjän> addquote <shachaf> Taneb: are you suggesting the Tanebvention joke might be getting slightly old  <Taneb> shachaf, not at all  <Taneb> I would never suggest that i
< 1533344076 393555 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533344320 434578 :sjums!~sjums@ip68-5-220-189.oc.oc.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533344410 741785 :sjums!~sjums@ip68-5-220-189.oc.oc.cox.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1533344692 416283 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533345201 932011 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1533345468 782618 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last panel of the last oots isn't entirely reassuring.
< 1533346334 763308 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh thank god, there was a preference setting to hide the left navigation bar on PPCG again
< 1533346403 773794 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-idstrpazhurtmgll JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533346515 992307 :sparklefarkle!~sparklefa@74-124-99-0-radius.dynamic.acsalaska.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533348143 8849 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533348454 9224 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1533350798 967561 :pixdamix!~pixdamix@cpe-70-119-64-201.tx.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533350815 249626 :pixdamix!~pixdamix@cpe-70-119-64-201.tx.res.rr.com QUIT :K-Lined
< 1533351552 501922 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533352852 741050 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: /dev/null is full
< 1533352904 22595 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533354738 712945 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1533354883 262716 :trout!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533356743 567428 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533356937 491149 :ForexTrader!~ForexTrad@c-71-229-201-82.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533356963 13710 :trout!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1533357033 24140 :ForexTrader!~ForexTrad@c-71-229-201-82.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533358642 679345 :trout!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533358853 310355 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1533358989 869390 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to make a total of floating numbers without losing precision must you put them in order, or accumulate them by log2 or whatever? (You might also have to consider the positive and negative numbers separately?)
< 1533360536 329208 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533360746 29774 :trout!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1533361451 493220 :Vorpal_!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net
< 1533362423 382458 :trout!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533362594 300640 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
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< 1533363841 210022 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
< 1533364298 255942 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533364917 753377 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533365915 387065 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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< 1533370163 309652 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
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< 1533371484 572599 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533371841 582613 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533372056 75160 :trout!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1533373270 465791 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Hodl ym bere, I'ev gto thsi!
< 1533373272 375711 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'hodl': Hodl ym bere, I'ev gto thsi!
< 1533373746 492588 :trout!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533373962 303739 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
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< 1533377504 868103 :trout!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533377573 672127 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-idstrpazhurtmgll QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1533377698 25625 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1533379430 680258 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533379617 341441 :trout!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1533381324 344047 :trout!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533381494 22238 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1533382055 193884 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533383169 515161 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533383217 433135 :wob_jonas!b03f18c9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.201 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533383284 700033 :wob_jonas!b03f18c9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.201 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: wow. that is something. (re Sir Robin in game of life)
< 1533383354 7606 :trout!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1533383564 318874 :ululate9!~ululate@pkos006-031.kcn.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533383612 243688 :ululate9!~ululate@pkos006-031.kcn.ne.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
> 1533384440 264327 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RANDo14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57219&oldid=54869 5* 03Kamish 5* (+54) 10
< 1533384651 307614 :codex2064!~codex2064@139.0.188.69 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533385243 454774 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1533385346 932925 :MillerBoss1!~MillerBos@123.214.87.48 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533385778 20815 :rej5!~rej@42-98-76-136.static.netvigator.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533385819 875402 :rej5!~rej@42-98-76-136.static.netvigator.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1533386145 148605 :Turner92!~Turner92@117.0.68.120 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533386465 439140 :Turner92!~Turner92@117.0.68.120 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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< 1533387149 123709 :trout!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1533388535 335060 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533388749 754540 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGIRL, dying...
< 1533388842 58360 :trout!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
> 1533388992 691601 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MIX (Knuth)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57220&oldid=53097 5* 03B jonas 5* (+147) 10clarify that this is not an esoteric language
> 1533389021 183145 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Game of Life14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57221&oldid=30898 5* 03B jonas 5* (+410) 10credit Conway with Turing-completeness; add like ten categories; link LifeWiki
< 1533389042 311483 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
> 1533389883 707037 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Game of Life14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57222&oldid=57221 5* 03B jonas 5* (+187) 10mention still active research
< 1533390279 935553 :Lean1!~lean@14.red-83-37-124.dynamicip.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533390291 602785 :Lean1!~lean@14.red-83-37-124.dynamicip.rima-tde.net PART :#esoteric
> 1533390429 733911 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:RAM014]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=57223 5* 03B jonas 5* (+612) 10a mistaken statement
< 1533390722 262963 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533390932 48187 :trout!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
> 1533391540 866840 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Game of Life14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57224&oldid=57222 5* 03B jonas 5* (+1346) 10explicit definition; program size
< 1533391939 116397 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
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> 1533392307 798246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Game of Life14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57225&oldid=57224 5* 03B jonas 5* (-4) 10consistent spelling of neighbor and behavior
> 1533392472 763482 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Von Neumann's 29-state cellular automaton14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=57226 5* 03B jonas 5* (+1478) 10Created page with "'''Von Neumann's 29-state cellular automaton''' is a [[Cellular automaton]] published in 1966.    The state of the automaton is a square grid filling the whole plane, in which..."
< 1533392643 5460 :trout!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533392811 286948 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
> 1533392887 185685 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Cellular automaton14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57227&oldid=45557 5* 03B jonas 5* (+482) 10history
> 1533392958 771147 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57228&oldid=57168 5* 03B jonas 5* (+48) 10
> 1533393291 798031 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Cellular automaton14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57229&oldid=57227 5* 03B jonas 5* (+454) 10/* Relation to esoteric programming */ clarify that every CA is an esolang
> 1533393425 700602 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Cellular automaton14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57230&oldid=57229 5* 03B jonas 5* (+2) 10/* Relation to esoteric programming */
> 1533393587 492520 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Prehistory of esoteric programming languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57231&oldid=49933 5* 03B jonas 5* (+406) 10add cellular automata
< 1533394086 668567 :wob_jonas!b03f18c9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.201 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533394209 486082 :wob_jonas!b03f18c9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.201 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering what the oldest esolang with still active research is. Game of Life is definitely old and has a large active research community, and dc might qualify and might just predate it. But then I realized that lambda calculus, or lambda calculus with some specific evaluation order, probably trumps anything else.
< 1533394312 983281 :wob_jonas!b03f18c9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.201 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Them and Turing-machines. They were both first published in 1936.
< 1533394513 18879 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533395795 736369 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: Found 1 in /dev/zero
> 1533396691 819625 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rosa Parks14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57232&oldid=57091 5* 03Plokmijnuhby 5* (+327) 10
< 1533396934 261272 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
> 1533397346 599582 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rosa Parks14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57233&oldid=57232 5* 03Plokmijnuhby 5* (+1) 10
< 1533397432 498809 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533398752 246509 :missnomer2!~missnomer@190-108-110-220.city10.com.br JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533399207 305698 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :2HI have implemented a SQLite extension to download files from the internet by using libcurl, but it involves a rather klugy way to detect if sqlite3_interrupt() has been called.
< 1533399548 526471 :TriangleSausage!~TriangleS@213.129.49.22 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533399862 741549 :duckgoose15!~duckgoose@123.21.233.126 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533403270 526045 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-hranvftgtfjkqltv QUIT :Excess Flood
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< 1533404619 303135 :paul2520!~paul2520@45.55.201.68 QUIT :Changing host
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< 1533404875 770024 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think someone ask about SQLite extension to use Swiss Ephemeris (to see the example code), and I have posted it now (although some features are not currently implemented, including sunrise/sunset times, and some other stuff)
< 1533405117 623980 :MikeSpears15!~MikeSpear@KD059129067067.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533408232 609564 :EdSaperia20!~EdSaperia@182.253.121.61 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533409770 50331 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533409967 871296 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've all heard the tale of Scheherazade, in which an evil sultan vows that every evening he would marry a beautiful maiden and every morning he would get that maiden executed?
< 1533410008 599377 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently in at least some variants, the sultan actually vowed that every evening he'd marry the *most* beautiful maiden of his empire.
< 1533410077 396158 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in reality, wouldn't that cause one of those unending arms races, when eventually every remaining maiden tries to deliberately make themselves more and more ugly, to avoid this fate?
< 1533410230 952742 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, maybe it would, and the sultan was stupid to make such a vow no matter what and the simplest solution would have been to get him assasinated as soon as possible after people find that he is willing to follow through his vow, but still, I haven't heard of that arms race part in any retelling of the story.
< 1533410688 262897 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533411569 275903 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1533412525 830724 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if his opinion who is most beautiful may differ somewhat from one of those maiden? Or if it is about equal and is difficult to know?
< 1533412558 404990 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't know.
< 1533412561 979080 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't there.
< 1533412608 395242 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should just ask the mirror from Snow White.
< 1533412623 306306 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas, what if it was an environment with commonplace arranged marriages and the status gained from having a daughter marry the sultan is worth the high chance of her execution
< 1533412645 733996 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine that if beauty is subjective and its measure used by the oath is not easy to predict, that would just speed up the arms race because every maiden will want to make herself so obviously ugly that by no matter what measure she isn't among the top ten thousand most beautiful ones.
< 1533412651 877872 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: worth to whome though...
< 1533412659 52945 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1533412659 281334 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :*whom
< 1533412671 425528 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, the people arranging the marriage (probably the poor girl's father)
< 1533412708 403002 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, but the maidens themselves would probably find a way to become ugly without the permission of their fater. The surviving girls at least, soon.
< 1533412718 39924 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: So unfair. Almost like real life.
< 1533413913 894758 :foxcookie!~foxcookie@201.255.173.167 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533415527 773711 :benoliver99916!~benoliver@37.114.188.9 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533415753 849973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages?
< 1533415753 910957 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, no messages today.
< 1533415860 556465 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:RAM0
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< 1533415920 820108 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes, I was kind-of assuming you couldn't put an oracle there
< 1533415940 467330 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also there's not much point linking me to talk pages of my own languages, I'm likely to notice anything put there anyway)
< 1533415955 907858 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's why I put it there
< 1533415970 386187 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since you asked lambdabot for @messages, I corrected him when he said no messages today
< 1533415976 769986 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I meant was that the language is still TC if it's initialised randomly
> 1533416001 365011 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RAM014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57234&oldid=54505 5* 03Ais523 5* (+16) 10/* Data storage */ clarify ambiguous sentence
> 1533416032 800402 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:RAM014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57235&oldid=57223 5* 03Ais523 5* (+247) 10clarified
< 1533416035 627690 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? then it has a randomness source... hmm wait, that doesn't increase the power of R. right.
< 1533416059 451101 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's not obvious what "initialize randomly" means in a machine with bigints in each cell
< 1533416083 303273 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: it's not a source of randomness if you can make no assumptions about the memory... it might be initialized.
< 1533416119 606424 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: oh wait. sorry, what ais523 wrote here and on the page are different things
< 1533416142 806120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I wrote it a bit more clearly on the page
< 1533416170 22330 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1533416171 876490 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533416175 236642 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, the page looks fine to me
< 1533416279 313166 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, it is fixed
< 1533416377 292439 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell tswett re your oversized digit notation, have you seen hyperbinary? it's basically binary except you're allowed to use 2 as a digit as well, and is mostly relevant as a method of defining the stern-brocot sequence
< 1533416377 351163 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1533416558 985674 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Phantom_Hoover I think "elementary" in cellular automata means that it isn't a collection of smaller components; there were already known Game of Life knightships that didn't rely on universal constructors, e.g. the half-baked knightship, which relied on multiple knightship-ish components that sent beams of generalised-gliders out to stabilise each other
< 1533416559 47014 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1533416661 404006 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That exclamation by Phantom_Hoover made me make some improvements to the Game of Life article on our wiki, although of course it still doesn't contain much of the vast knowledge mathematicians now have of Game of Life.
< 1533416689 238947 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or more like, inspired me to make some improvements, seeing that such a popular esolang has such a bad article.
< 1533416706 921814 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an entire wiki for the game of life
< 1533416715 339806 :jrg28!~jrg@14.186.163.172 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533416715 746300 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's not much point duplicating it here
< 1533416724 421360 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I linked it. two wikis at least, I think.
< 1533416745 95039 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, isn't that what i said when taneb asked
< 1533416752 416969 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was still worth to increase the article from stub length, and may still be worth to grow it a bit, just because it's such an important language.
< 1533416755 470156 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ive already forgotten tbqh)
< 1533416766 453313 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> elementary = not a giant million cell machine engineered to build a copy of itself along a certain vector then take itself apart
< 1533416772 671060 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are entire books on the Lambda calculus too, but it deserves a good article on our wiki still.
< 1533416817 888812 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1533416825 242642 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the Sir Robin article that PH linked to has the word "elementary" linked to a page where that concept is clearly described, and it is what ais says it means.
< 1533416843 507346 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbqh the game of life isn't that interesting from an esolang perspective because a very small subset of what's known about it suffices for TCness
< 1533416901 845897 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the 'microscale' engineering needed to e.g. build a replicator is the real meat of it
< 1533416930 95107 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I don't see how this speaks against it being an esolang
< 1533416935 374573 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: then I was wondering if Game of Life, born in 1970, was the *oldest* esolang with still active research. I looked at dc, since people still occasionally write new obfus in it, which sort of counts as "active research", but I can't determine for sure whether dc is older or newer than Game of Life.
< 1533416951 917366 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. or perhaps you just find the fiddling boring
< 1533416954 882647 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the game of life is interesting because instead of an explicit list of commands, it provides a number of components which feel a bit like they're randomly generated
< 1533416972 234015 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of which are useless, some of which happen to have functionality that can be pieced together into a TC language
< 1533416991 235228 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Then I decided that the question is stupid, because both lambda calculus and Turing-machines are so fucking old they probably trump everything, both having been published in 1936.
< 1533417015 945760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about the analytical engine's language?
< 1533417017 669072 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And both lambda calculus and Turing-machines are still languages that people research.
< 1533417035 405904 :jrg28!~jrg@14.186.163.172 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533417039 938843 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I almost wrote earlier that neither lambda calculus not Turing machines are esolangs.
< 1533417042 993256 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, basic untyped lambda calculus is unlikely to have much research left, people mostly just make derivatives of it
< 1533417061 984187 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, I guess that's true
< 1533417115 596402 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I think they are esolangs, only without a fixed syntax, but that doesn't make them less of esolangs. the execution model is complete enough.
< 1533417135 258982 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, perhaps. You prove subject reduction, so the Church-Rosser proof carries over to whatever typed system you really study.
< 1533417144 622217 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we accept languages with no fixed definition of how they do IO or even deliver a yes-no result and they never halt, then why wouldn't we allow no fixed syntax?
< 1533417168 40515 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I'm trying to say that they're not esoteric enough.
< 1533417176 479155 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus, ais523 has submitted some articles of his new esolangs that have no fixed syntax, and do you want to go against ais523's claim that those are esolangs?
< 1533417183 667695 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: oh!
< 1533417185 287260 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry
< 1533417207 694639 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the ambiguity isn't your fault. :)
< 1533417223 293566 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they're esoteric in the sense that they're Turing-tarpits, being Turing-complete but its full ruleset being very small
< 1533417225 414600 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I can hardly blame you for not reading my mind.
< 1533417248 694816 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And few people use them for actual practical programming
< 1533417296 551249 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not because it's unpopular, but because they're not very suitable, because just like most other tarpits, they're not rich enough
< 1533417325 229372 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I would probably say that Turing machines are more esoteric than the lambda calculus, because the latter is an actual viable target language for functional programming.
< 1533417366 252554 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, i didn't say it didn't have a place on the esolang wiki just that the most interesting stuff about it involves more than computation
< 1533417370 799555 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :also true
< 1533417372 61245 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so clearly we disagree on the richness of lambda calculus)
< 1533417411 836655 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I certainly agree that Turing-machines are more esoteric
< 1533417422 940072 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i haven't actually researched the history involved but it seems to me that the lambda calculus is clearly the richer, more useful computational system; but turing machines were of more scientific interest because they're very clearly physically realisable
< 1533417510 104569 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PH: I think they were of more scientific interest exactly because they're esoteric. they have a strange execution time so asking how fast you can compute something on a Turing-machine is nontrivial and different from the execution time on normal machines;
< 1533417536 790991 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a 'normal' machine, in 1930-whatever?
< 1533417601 826098 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :finding the smallest universal Turing-machine or the largest number a small Turing-machine can compute gets nontrivial quickly (although there are similarly simple golf questions about finding the smallest universal combinator or something)
< 1533417602 164306 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've often wondered why turing is the Big Name in the field of early formal computation when church was slightly earlier, he proved essentially the same thing and his formalism has gone on to be vastly more influential in modern computing
< 1533417656 854037 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PH: so you're saying that we have to measure the esotericness of a language compared to its age, and there's not many other languages in their age to compare to?
< 1533417671 128071 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? this isn't about 'esotericness'
< 1533417792 621714 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway, especially early on when 'what will physical computers be able to do' was presumably an important new question, the fact that turing's formal machine could clearly be mapped to the operation of an (idealised) physical computer would have made results like universality far more important than they were for the lambda calculus
< 1533417801 117850 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, that's true, but there's still, I guess, arithmetic notations, which existed back then and could count as very limited programming languages,
< 1533417806 366237 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking at the Z3... "Data memory: 64 words with a length of 22 bits" "Program memory: Punched celluloid tape"
< 1533417823 443837 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in particular in 1980 Hilbert considered the set of Diophantine equations, which you could consider an early esolang actually, so there are other languages to compare
< 1533417840 709797 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, Diophantine equations might be the earliest esolang that still have active research
< 1533417895 21653 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533417983 378517 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PH: yes, but didn't people seriously start to consider building physical computers later than lambda-calculus was published, unless the legends about Babbage are true (they sound as exaggerated as the Da Vinci ones)?
< 1533418053 48221 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know that much about the actual history! i think they were seriously considering it well before they actually built any
< 1533418085 740749 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i've always kind of assumed turing had physical realisation in mind when he came up with the turing machine because, well, why else would you come up with anything so painfully awkward
< 1533418102 804430 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PH: but how much before? only two decades, or five decades?
< 1533418108 700660 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm wait
< 1533418176 131115 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: maybe the point was to have something that could obviously be built in principle (modulo the infinite tape length) :)
< 1533418181 15135 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like some of those legends about Babbage are true, because he built a pretty good mechanical calculator, perhaps better than any before.
< 1533418193 924455 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, precisely
< 1533418204 995143 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :mechanical computers were in wide use prior to LC.
< 1533418218 832239 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :mechanical calculating hardware was in wide use prior to LC.
< 1533418219 683347 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: how does one build a random access memory, really? I mean, imagine you didn't know how it was done...
< 1533418231 257299 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1533418241 348499 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell the earliest programmable hardware was looms.
< 1533418305 95451 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: that's true, I have a photo of one in https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wien-khm-kunstkammer-calculator.jpg
< 1533418313 282981 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :noice.
< 1533418317 423952 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :beautiful hardware.
< 1533418364 250526 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that one is clearly a decorative one, probably not much used in reality, but was probably also working (for some value of working), so at that point mechanical calculators must have been "cheap" enough that you would consider giving one as a useless gift to a king
< 1533418391 456925 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the description said something about how it was used by court astronomers or something
< 1533418393 577650 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely. just look at the history of cash registers.
< 1533418397 363546 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe it wasn't purely decorative
< 1533418445 234756 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it was somewhat practical, but also beautifully decorative, like many other items in that exhibition, including utensils and grooming tools
< 1533418460 230815 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WLANL_-_jpa2003_-_Jaquardweefgetouw_03.jpg looks impressive
< 1533418466 163948 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though some of them did look so richly decorated that I can hardly imagine they're practical to use
< 1533418502 942064 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell, mechanical computers were used to calculate ballistic trajectories in the navies around the world well up through the early 1900's.
< 1533418519 358243 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the Antikythera mechanism is claimed to be the oldest mechanical computer we know of, and it's from the *antiquities*, and it's one specialized for astronomical calculations
< 1533418535 603643 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess you're right
< 1533418565 718212 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just plopped into this discussion, what's it about?
< 1533418567 733227 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps there were actually languages of that age to compare to, even if I know close to nil about them
< 1533418603 900193 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: I started by asking if Game of Life is the oldest esolang with still active research in it, then wondered if Turing-machines fit the bill,
< 1533418609 788106 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhh.
< 1533418619 572200 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah turing machines fit the bill lol.
< 1533418625 570004 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: then it followed up by a discussion of whether Turing-machines are an esoteric language, and how you even define esoteric language,
< 1533418627 308427 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :persistent TMs are even more obscure.
< 1533418671 435154 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then about old physically built computers
< 1533418690 664153 :BackUP25!~BackUP@183.238.170.226 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533418732 660298 :BackUP25!~BackUP@183.238.170.226 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533418753 949689 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually wonder if an abacus counts.
< 1533418759 45763 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My favourite item from that exhibition, though, is a purely decorative one: a statuette https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Gefesselter_Prometheus_(Hagenauer) of which I didn't manage to make good enough quality photos
< 1533418759 862730 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hehe.)
< 1533418829 251360 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there were big difficulties making photos in a dark room with ugly uneven directional lighting and lots of reflective glass cabinets with all four doors open arranged through a large room and other visitors and no tripods allowed and
< 1533418873 586657 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :me having only a compact camera that isn't really ideal for that sort of challenge, even though I definitely really like that camera and think it was really worth its price and have served me well so far.
< 1533418896 132996 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: counts for what?
< 1533418906 548170 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the "oldest computer".
< 1533418962 812383 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: an abacus counts, adds, and with some care, multiplies as well
< 1533418963 913921 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1533419002 96279 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: but didn't the babylonian scribes also add and multiply on clay tablets too?
< 1533419003 758949 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: ayyyy there's the pun. :P
< 1533419055 299796 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: we're quickly approaching snakes and log tables, I see.
< 1533419057 3400 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps such a scribe or group of scribes could count as a computer, and programmable too if their liege orders them to do a specific calculation
< 1533419086 51162 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(beware of adders, they are venomous)
< 1533419103 275783 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah, some people make the case that the universe is a giant computer, and it's clearly older than anything invented by humans
< 1533419119 134792 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you basically need to discount anything that relies on the human mind as a computer
< 1533419121 691602 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah, I heard that pun already
< 1533419123 11052 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.
< 1533419141 520147 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_computer
< 1533419163 648381 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fickleness of linguistic drift strikes again
< 1533419164 973989 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PH: relies in what sense? all computers built so far rely on the human mind to repair and work for more than a few decades continuously
< 1533419179 611732 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/repair and/repair so that they/
< 1533419193 188658 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :to actually perform its computation
< 1533419207 498238 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i refuse to believe you can be confused on what i mean by this except for the sake of pedantry
< 1533419216 740053 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there have been plans for computers that last for longer, but I don't think any have been built yet
< 1533419311 50737 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I'm not impressed by how well some computers launched in space manage to work for decades under physically very limiting conditions, mind you
< 1533419513 657793 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That the Voyager 1 has had a working computer and able to contact us still ever since 1977 is definitely one of the crowning jewels of human-built technology so far.
< 1533419515 374754 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, we *can* build computer hardware to last, and be fault-tolerant and redundant, especially when it doesn't need to be fast.
< 1533419549 844160 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: theoretically yes, but I don't think anyone put together the money for it yet
< 1533419552 288753 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the longest-lasting computer we can build?
< 1533419594 416777 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I thought it was sufficiently distant that its bandwidth had dropped below the rate required to accomplish anything useful with the communications?
< 1533419600 904009 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I'm hard pressed to think of a market for it, beyond space crafts (and some other hardware that is hard to access. industrial, perhaps. or things we put inside undersea cables.).
< 1533419619 506975 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, some of the computers from the early days of transistors may still be working
< 1533419621 616459 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: there is some research on that. some people proposed ones that would work for ten thousand years unrepaired or something and is earthbound, and is just a clock (barely counts as a computer), but it's probably unrealistic.
< 1533419636 249420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thermionic valves are really unreliable, and when people started replacing them by transistors it took a while for them to revise the computer designs
< 1533419636 915872 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah a clock wouldn't count imho.
< 1533419645 692645 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: anyway, putting some random keywords together: https://www.militaryaerospace.com/articles/print/volume-28/issue-6/technology-focus/radiation-hardened-space-electronics-enter-the-multi-core-era.html
< 1533419650 791730 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :turing completeness is what matters.
< 1533419660 714937 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :smallest, longest-lasting turing complete piece of hardware.
< 1533419662 219652 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't have any Turing complete computers though
< 1533419674 687561 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah yeah mr. pedant.
< 1533419684 896294 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes it quite hard to define a computer in real life
< 1533419694 487364 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess some sort of informal "usable for programming" is what we care about
< 1533419716 194601 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :construct me the longest-lasting linear bounded automaton you have.
< 1533419746 537505 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: oh and a nice closing sentence: 'Aircraft flying at altitude, at about 30,000 feet and above, also are starting to experience radiation-induced effects. "There are 500 times more neutrons at 30,000 feet than there are on the ground," points out Aitech's Romaniuk.'
< 1533419748 55860 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, a physically realisable LBA would require some sort of rewritable physical medium to supply the input
< 1533419758 424254 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(near closing, if you want to be technical)
< 1533419760 303237 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it doesn't look like that, if I read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_1 correctly
< 1533419771 370301 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't rely on any electronic or MEMs shit.
< 1533419788 291139 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess we're also going to talk size.
< 1533419795 680205 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's the two Pioneer probes, both of which were launched prior to the two Voyagers, that can no longer communicate with us
< 1533419803 921028 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: ah right, apparently we can still tell it to steer and get back information telling us it's changed course
< 1533419848 708577 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wouldn't need a lot of bandwidth
< 1533419857 495563 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't voyager 2 the furthest
< 1533419883 585034 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yes, there's no market for computers that work for a long time, because nobody cares for such long term investments financially, which is probably why none have been built in practice
< 1533419920 228465 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially because computer technology improves all the time, and so a computer is likely to become obsolete fairly quickly
< 1533419926 350654 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's not
< 1533419950 80990 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't even care about the speed or size of it, I just want the most durable and longest-lasting piece of hardware, in whatever form it may take.
< 1533419953 30234 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although a working computer from, say, the year 2000 would still be useful nowadays, even though it's much less powerful than modern computers are
< 1533419965 957459 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may be able to make a fluidic TM out of some of the hardest material on the planet.
< 1533419972 603674 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: I can imagine that some microcontrollers would be very durable
< 1533419993 191074 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I wouldn't rely on anything electrical or explicitly mechanical. wear and tear.
< 1533420004 314072 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :fluidics sound like a good option.
< 1533420011 1650 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :applications like computerised sensors might legitimately want to work for a long time
< 1533420039 465989 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :10,000 years in space?
< 1533420040 8535 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: I've been thinking of a physical implementation of The Waterfall Model using actual flowing water, but it'd likely accumulate tolerance errors over time unless you had some sort of quantisation involved
< 1533420044 9815 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right, and part of that is because better radio wave receivers and transmitters have been built than were possible when it (Voyager 10) was launched, although people probably anticipated back than that such will be built
< 1533420067 134381 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm thinking of fluidic logic gates in an enclosed block of some kind of material.
< 1533420072 458482 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't care about getting output from it.
< 1533420080 389399 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: fluid scour would be a huge issue with something like that
< 1533420085 660341 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.
< 1533420108 118256 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think electrical or optical computation would be the right way to go, having no moving parts is likely to increase durability considerably
< 1533420130 308390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with electrical computation, you'd want to use some really simple, hardwearing components like BJTs
< 1533420177 247870 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, I don't think any of it would last. thermals, etc.
< 1533420219 399352 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :further, I believe Voyager 10 has a *programmable* computer because when it was launched, its creators anticipated that future research on Earth would let them decide how to change its program for the better, and communication bandwidth limits wouldn't allow the program to just be executed on Earth
< 1533420220 537877 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just looked it up, as long as the current stays low enough the only known failure mode of BJTs within their normal operating envelope is due to ionizing radiation
< 1533420236 258991 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm.
< 1533420252 529562 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Voyager 10/Voyager 1/
< 1533420268 43928 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think it should be something more passively mechanical like fluidics. either using gasses or actual fluids.
< 1533420402 414478 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: some science writer whose name eludes me did propose that a Turing-complete computer that lives forever may be physically built, but only with capabilities of civilizations much more advanced than ours
< 1533420438 846910 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its purpose would be to run a mind, so that they thus gain immortality
< 1533420477 728809 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :asimov's the last question?
< 1533420552 168811 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: no
< 1533420570 130932 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: it actually details the physics part
< 1533420581 128485 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.
< 1533420593 819587 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and was intended as non-fiction, although "futurology" bounds on fiction
< 1533420616 250905 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pretty famous short book
< 1533420633 426199 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you play GURPS, what TL number would you have such thing of that?
< 1533420646 81951 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing like that's coming to mind immediately...
< 1533420652 35151 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the Voyager 10 might count as one of the oldest computers that is still used for practical purposes today
< 1533420658 654964 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I could be wrong here
< 1533420812 532097 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for fluidic computers, there was a supposed one exhibited in the Technisches Museum Wien that I've seen in 2006,
< 1533420861 157194 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :namely it was a machine made of glass and water and air but with the glass never moving, powered by a water pump and its inputs controlled by some modern computer,
< 1533420936 155622 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fluid scour is a major source of mechanical damage to things, though
< 1533420942 591521 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it would be less bad with a gas than a liquid
< 1533420964 856181 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that they claimed was a four-bit adder, and with a display of the inputs and outputs in binary also made of those same components with the bits drawn in water (the water was dyed for better visibility),
< 1533420966 370972 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i don't see why you'd expect fluidics to be particularly long-lasting
< 1533420998 365673 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean how would overbuilt silicon microchips compare? ais523?
< 1533421027 333812 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the controlling computer had an input terminal where you would input two arbitrary four-bit numbers, and the input display did seem to work correctly,
< 1533421058 522933 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: there are a few failure modes for silicon chips, some of which are to do with temperature, others of which are to do with buildup of electrons or holes in the wrong place
< 1533421084 713560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some of which are mechanical and even weird, e.g. fusible link PROMs sometimes suffer from the copper in them growing crystals and linking up to other bit of copper
< 1533421095 108924 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, the controlling computer also forced to reset the inputs to all zeros after like ten seconds of feeding your input and forced to keep it at all zeros for some time, and during those approx ten seconds,
< 1533421106 882780 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, like tin whiskers?
< 1533421124 560757 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yuh
< 1533421130 686145 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a significant ratio of inputs I tried the state of the adder didn't stabilize (the gates didn't propagate fast enough or something),
< 1533421164 323260 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I actually suspect that they never managed to debug the water computer, and just exhibited the buggy one with a workaround that makes the bug plausibly deniable
< 1533421181 311550 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, makes them plausibly claim that it had worked at some point
< 1533421211 719102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: right
< 1533421250 983268 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder if it's possible to build a magnetic computer
< 1533421257 742940 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't seem like it had some theoretical design bug, the mechanism seemed like it could work in theory, but I think the glassware was difficult and slow to repair, and so they just couldn't get it right in enough tries and had to exhibit it to get a government grant or something.
< 1533421259 62054 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's unclear what the power supply would be and if any sorts of gate exist
< 1533421292 450926 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think besides the glass it also had a non-moving metal frame to support the weight of the glass.
< 1533421299 223027 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can look up, I have a photo.
< 1533421346 276093 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many times have I told this story of the supposed fluidic computer on this channel yet?
< 1533421358 803912 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :imma go with 5.
< 1533421374 162131 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what would a magnetic computer mean?
< 1533421412 971139 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: something that used magnetism to send data rather than electricity
< 1533421450 796414 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, a metal frame and also some sort of plastic valve-thingies, but the water was the only moving part, supposedly, unless they also cheated on that
< 1533421467 631738 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the valve thingies were for maintenance and tuning
< 1533421510 90921 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was in 2007, not 2006
< 1533421553 37703 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it hard to see how you could do logic with only water as moving parts
< 1533421587 873935 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, nobody understands fluid mechanics so it must be possible
< 1533421644 814973 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :fluidic logic gates!
< 1533421804 394969 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1533421842 894104 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the water had to be flowing continuously, bits represented by either water flowing fast or barely any water flowing and the tube filled with mostly air, the trick was some syphons:
< 1533421885 135348 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the gate had a part where if water entered on both inputs, then the water would be continuously syphoned out from a container through a higher overflow output pipe, and barely any exited the lower output pipe, but if water came only on one input, then the syphon would never start.
< 1533421914 795126 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine the difficulty is that the water pressure has to be regulated very well, and that's hard to keep through multiple depths of gates.
< 1533421915 102584 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's clever
< 1533421963 107911 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And this is also why it's so plausibly deniable: it is possible that the mechanism was designed to only give correct output if it was actually "flushed" to all zero inputs on every gate between any two inputs.
< 1533421990 204895 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533421990 456986 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a QUIT :Changing host
< 1533421990 457048 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533421992 432564 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the electronic reset needn't have been arbitrary, it might have been a necessary requirement to use the computer, enforced to visitors.
< 1533421994 18080 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can probably write a TC language with that restriction, though
< 1533422049 247869 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But because of the instability of the mechanism, I can't really be sure that this is the case. It just makes the plausible cover story so much more believable.
< 1533422088 735544 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it must have been a private grant, not a government grant. You don't need such a good cover story for a government grant.
< 1533422093 176473 :shikhin_!shikhin@lambdaos.org PART :#esoteric
< 1533422108 517345 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A grant from a private company that is.
< 1533422174 298624 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either that, or a machine built by a single eso-computer builder glassblower who donated it to the museum when he gave up on making it work.
< 1533422231 627865 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is it possible to build an amplifier with this sort of logic?
< 1533422248 995537 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluidics#Amplifiers
< 1533422249 204015 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something which converts a slow flow to a fast flow but a zero flow to a zero flow
< 1533422259 865641 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: probably yes
< 1533422269 839731 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so I'd guess
< 1533422300 876258 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally, if you have an amplifier, you can make arbitrary circuits, without one you can't
< 1533422305 19469 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least if you had a reliable flow rate on inputs and power.
< 1533422329 937032 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like fluid amplifiers exist.
< 1533422355 988602 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like the logic relies on deflection, i.e. you can point a stream of water at another stream of water and it pushes it into a different location
< 1533422380 880921 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, kind of like a billiard ball model.
< 1533422398 723089 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :only with many many more particles. :P
< 1533422405 714728 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the adder is a non-monotonous circuit, so it needs non-monotonous gates. aren't those practically required to contain an amplifier, in the sense that a transistor used as a unit gate in modern digital computers is an amplifier and has a power input?
< 1533422440 563379 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, it can't be exactly what I said, because that would only make an xor gate
< 1533422454 598413 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but perhaps it has an or gate as well as those
< 1533422455 613369 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :y'all should look at the article lol.
< 1533422459 571122 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did
< 1533422509 916947 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I can show the photos if you want to reverse engineer, but they're bad quality so hard to use for that
< 1533422512 330137 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I don't think a half-adder (and thus a full-adder) actually needs amplification; the truth table is 00→00, 01→01, 10→01, 11→10, and in each case the output has no more 1s than the input
< 1533422553 175597 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, that's true
< 1533422562 675444 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533422586 954633 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is honestly kind of crazy how much stuff in the game of life comes down to the r pentomino
< 1533422593 441055 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the mechanism looks like each gate is very simple physically, and seems to have only two inputs and two outputs
< 1533422603 507937 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait
< 1533422607 507206 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have two inputs and three outputs
< 1533422617 476264 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you can think of it as a game of life version of an amplifier: small (easily constructed) input, really big and complex output
< 1533422633 110866 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or two outputs? I can't see
< 1533422652 955043 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1533422666 519923 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's only two outputs, but hard to tell from my photo
< 1533422666 838780 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there aren't many useful components with two inputs and three outputs; if it does have that structure it's probably a demultiplexer, which is the only reasonable component I can think of that works like that
< 1533422689 210514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :additionally, a demultiplexer can be made into a half-adder via an OR on outputs 1 and 3
< 1533422700 608330 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which would just involve connecting them together, fluidically)
< 1533422709 980509 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :conway has said that he should've invented b36/s23 instead b/c it has the nice easy replicator
< 1533422714 92363 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, if there are three outputs, then the extra output must be drainage of extra water
< 1533422742 265354 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the machine is visibly built of seven gates, clearly arranged in the configuration you'd need for a four-bit adder
< 1533422748 606158 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the r pentomino dies out almost instantly in that, so it would never have supported all the immense variety of r-pentomino/herschel based technology that's used in life
< 1533422757 284085 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: hmm, so the "fluid demultiplexer"'s truth table would be 00→000, 01→001, 10→100, 11→020
< 1533422775 450318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably there's some component that reshapes a 2 into a 1
< 1533422819 657554 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm wait
< 1533422846 943137 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the water flows only down, then it's actually the wrong configuration for a full adder. it has two gates next to each other on the top, but one in the bottom. wtf.
< 1533422905 217368 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reversible counter machine I'm working on effectively has flows made out of different numbers, and 1→2 amplifiers / 2→1 deamplifiers are basic components
< 1533422923 512937 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it also allows 0s to move around with meaningful semantics
< 1533422931 997534 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and both input pipes from the two top level gates seem to be connected to the second level gates
< 1533423016 827150 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is that a TC-proof you're making over some already published reversible counter machine, or a new esolang? because that doesn't sound like a "counter machine"
< 1533423052 784855 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: it's a new esolang that's intended to be high-level enough to TC-prove it but low-level enough to implement in lower-level esolangs
< 1533423071 853095 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it looks like the left hand side gates differ slightly from the right hand side gates
< 1533423079 559303 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a counter machine in the sense that there's a direct representation of its state in finitely many counters
< 1533423119 788697 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is the representation with "flows made out of different numbers" a different one?
< 1533423140 842396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, the numbers effectively just move from one counter to another
< 1533423163 553013 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which in a lower-level counter machine would involve a copy loop, but in the high-level representation it's conceptually a single step)
< 1533423176 82665 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... are there a bounded number of counters for the whole life of the supposed universal program
< 1533423180 444273 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1533423193 577859 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see
< 1533423221 128293 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean some numbers close to zero are special, just like in many counter machines, and that's where you're using 1->2 amplifiers?
< 1533423307 534770 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that not what the 1->2 amplifier means?
< 1533423313 85449 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, the way it works is that you have a graph which is effectively a graph of control flow, and an instruction pointer which is on a particular graph node
< 1533423333 546496 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :data and control flow move in opposite directions; the instruction pointer moves around by swapping with data in adjacent graph nodes
< 1533423351 569944 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hdukofpckokhdxlm JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533423369 463121 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a 1→2 amplifier would produce 2s behind where the control flow entered, but expect 1s ahead of where the control flow exited
< 1533423389 143258 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite hard to get your head around the data and control flowing in opposite directions, incidentally, it keeps confusing me when I work on the language
< 1533423435 29039 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is 1 input and 2 output the only possible state of that amplifier, or is there another valid input?
< 1533423472 456889 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed it would take 0 input and 0 output, because that's what I thought "amplifier" means
< 1533423480 841683 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at this point I'm no longer sure because this is a crazy esolang
< 1533423530 713911 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"data and control flowing in opposite directions" => isn't that also how any circular queue esolang works by the way?
< 1533423545 797808 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it can be easier if there's only one circular queue, not a more complex graph
< 1533426511 959138 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vxuvudeocpjvrbpy JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533427507 735212 :wob_jonas!b03f1821@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.33 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
> 1533428388 976268 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57236&oldid=57008 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (+21) 10Fixed small errors with "a" and "an" and modified description of the String Concatenate statement.
> 1533428461 378982 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57237&oldid=57236 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (-8) 10Redudent doubling of greater
> 1533428497 130616 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57238&oldid=57237 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (+8) 10Undoing previous commit, mis-click of enter key. >:(
< 1533428598 295301 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
> 1533428807 533566 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57239&oldid=57238 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (-9) 10Removed redundant doubling of greater than and less than operations symbols.
> 1533428951 598463 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57240&oldid=57239 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (+0) 10*cough* Woops, My finger hit the enter key, I guess the syntax for String Put has changed.
< 1533429016 419818 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533429073 52584 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com QUIT :Client Quit
< 1533429090 968540 :MikeSpears28!~MikeSpear@14.169.195.72 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533429198 413440 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533429221 324640 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com QUIT :Client Quit
< 1533429245 650690 :Galaxtone!~IceChat9@cable-54-120.sssnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533429262 415435 :CoJaBo28!~CoJaBo@180.178.139.119 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533429311 419856 :CoJaBo28!~CoJaBo@180.178.139.119 QUIT :Killed (Unit193 (Spam is not permitted on freenode.))
< 1533429441 370504 :MikeSpears28!~MikeSpear@14.169.195.72 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1533430159 496416 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533430327 947032 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1533432396 57038 :infina14!~infina@203.229.1.119 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533435211 74746 :Tourist8!~Tourist@14.162.169.240 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533435311 240088 :Tourist8!~Tourist@14.162.169.240 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533435567 382750 :barlas7!~barlas@ip98-169-53-165.dc.dc.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533435625 707557 :swoolley2!~swoolley@186.250.223.167 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533435905 320325 :swoolley2!~swoolley@186.250.223.167 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1533437081 200705 :siniStar!~siniStar@node-5mm.pool-1-1.dynamic.totbb.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533437352 769260 :Guest42469!~Guest4246@171.234.66.27 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533437439 73004 :siniStar!~siniStar@node-5mm.pool-1-1.dynamic.totbb.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1533437676 207179 :TheoM!~TheoM@184.170.18.41 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533437683 987134 :Guest42469!~Guest4246@171.234.66.27 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533437702 775993 :TheoM!~TheoM@184.170.18.41 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1533438444 528193 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar ENVA
< 1533438444 979761 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENVA 050250Z 15003KT 7000 RA FEW002 SCT018 BKN062 12/11 Q1012 RESHRA RMK WIND 670FT 21008KT
< 1533438457 550283 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar KOAK
< 1533438457 697010 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :KOAK 050253Z 27011KT 10SM CLR 17/12 A2991 RMK AO2 SLP127 T01720122 55003
< 1533438463 448137 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar KJFK
< 1533438463 627156 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :KJFK 050251Z 28009KT 10SM FEW065 FEW250 28/22 A3009 RMK AO2 SLP189 T02780222 51008
< 1533438476 126787 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was in nyc last week and the weather was scow
< 1533438485 967838 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hot and humid
< 1533438492 115873 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dogs now howl
< 1533438503 533394 :Jan\19!~Jan\@123.20.95.110 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533438540 966415 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, i'm glad it's no longer hot here, although somehow the inside of my apartment hasn't cooled down.
< 1533438553 351724 :Jan\19!~Jan\@123.20.95.110 QUIT :K-Lined
< 1533438569 672513 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suspect it is not time to remove the +q yet.
< 1533438636 882872 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has the big door to whatchamacallit open

< 1533438654 631309 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :outside?
< 1533438666 138715 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not wuite
< 1533438668 315108 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*q
< 1533438674 277119 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this the real world i keep hearing about twh
< 1533438690 738795 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a room outside of my apartment, but still somewhat enclosed.
< 1533438714 752174 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :a mushroom?
< 1533438733 963910 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried looking up the correct word in english, guessing it was veranda or something, but none of the options on wikipedia seemed to fit.
< 1533438783 800421 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's _not_ protuding from the wall.
< 1533438977 789340 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps screened porch is closest.
< 1533438993 222628 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although my apartment is on the second floor...
< 1533439006 136581 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(one-based)
< 1533439462 163792 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i'm forgetting to eat the food i already put on the table :P
< 1533439488 343465 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? oerjan
< 1533439489 367023 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your omnidryad saddle principal golfing toe-obsessed "Darth Ook" oerjan the shifty loud hero is a hazy expert in minor compaction. Also a Groadep who minces Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance. His ark-nemesis is Noah. He twice punned without noticing it.
< 1533439502 205068 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe we should put eating in that, for your convenience.
< 1533440065 727588 :plat_15!~plat_@206.214.0.205 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533440107 948833 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds good
< 1533440271 193038 :plat_15!~plat_@206.214.0.205 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533440695 219882 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533442257 239410 :pierte11!~pierte@14.169.135.2 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533442324 998623 :pierte11!~pierte@14.169.135.2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533442583 530517 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2
< 1533442935 123859 :ninsei!~ninsei@197.51.122.232 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533443225 481490 :ninsei!~ninsei@197.51.122.232 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533443408 261459 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: will there be an olist on monday twh
< 1533443452 598237 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, give me a bit to figure that out. I'll get back to you on Tuesday.
< 1533443507 239787 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1533443513 373268 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :please make sure the cat does not get hurt twh
< 1533443999 486024 :Some_Person22!~Some_Pers@14.231.63.207 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533444365 427660 :Some_Person22!~Some_Pers@14.231.63.207 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533444533 555568 :adamg!~adamg@222.220.66.197 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533444715 131348 :adamg!~adamg@222.220.66.197 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1533444754 131667 :fossxplorer22!~fossxplor@121.124.214.106 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533444841 896730 :fossxplorer22!~fossxplor@121.124.214.106 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533444882 533153 :Aleszandro!~Aleszandr@dvc-49-132-101-190.movil.vtr.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533444949 905543 :Aleszandro!~Aleszandr@dvc-49-132-101-190.movil.vtr.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533446477 919981 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :libcurl has a CURLOPT_DEFAULT_PROTOCOL option, although it does not have the option to treat a URL without the scheme as relative to a specified URL or to the current directory.
< 1533446692 214803 :OGF21!~OGF@113.182.63.111 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533446716 868585 :Tourist21!~Tourist@123.98.176.105 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533446733 938985 :OGF21!~OGF@113.182.63.111 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1533446822 899698 :Tourist21!~Tourist@123.98.176.105 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533447927 366644 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hdukofpckokhdxlm QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1533448402 151752 :rogue!~rogue@81.214.210.126 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533448443 629598 :rogue!~rogue@81.214.210.126 QUIT :Killed (Unit193 (Spam is not permitted on freenode.))
< 1533448974 726859 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-didxlxduejpnidci JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533449017 398616 :noonehere4u25!~noonehere@175.212.11.12 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533449035 744692 :noonehere4u25!~noonehere@175.212.11.12 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533449098 866664 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vxuvudeocpjvrbpy QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1533450093 522433 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( probably not a lovable rogue )
< 1533450424 804070 :sjums!~sjums@80.78.68.5 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533450747 711863 :sjums!~sjums@80.78.68.5 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533451716 144876 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net QUIT :Quit: the creeping crawling chaos will return.
< 1533452704 936733 :anderson6!~anderson@138-118-235-96.wantel.net.br JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533452928 780709 :Kinny4!~Kinny@123.20.174.127 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533453001 399680 :Kinny4!~Kinny@123.20.174.127 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533453068 222169 :anderson6!~anderson@138-118-235-96.wantel.net.br QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1533453397 763521 :impomatic!~digital_w@host81-136-87-199.range81-136.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533453416 829435 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Quit: sprocklem
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< 1533453573 587600 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
< 1533454112 391315 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533454475 443153 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533456261 220907 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533456327 378372 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-didxlxduejpnidci QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1533456842 803807 :arahael18!~arahael@41.87.12.192 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533456905 524886 :arahael18!~arahael@41.87.12.192 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1533458409 907317 :meine!~meine@121.162.228.215 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533458467 85655 :fsamareanu22!~fsamarean@167.250.216.200 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533458500 32793 :meine!~meine@121.162.228.215 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1533458566 732166 :fsamareanu22!~fsamarean@167.250.216.200 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533458576 215698 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1533459558 720456 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :<shachaf> Maybe we should put eating in that, for your convenience. <-- so s/toe-obsessed/toe-gnawing/ ?
< 1533459761 869856 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd watch out with making gratuitous nonsensical edits to that wisdom entry hth
< 1533459966 297135 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it would hardly stand out.
< 1533459977 847752 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But perhaps I missed the implicit irony tag.
< 1533460003 96276 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? shachaf
< 1533460004 216856 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Queen Shachaf of the Dawn sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. He doesn't know when to stop asking questions.
< 1533460389 301743 :jorrakay6!~jorrakay@58.82.129.164 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533460566 223943 :jorrakay6!~jorrakay@58.82.129.164 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533461260 809646 :aphex`!~aphex`@183.98.112.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533461262 628295 :aphex`!~aphex`@183.98.112.208 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533461350 770756 :Guest42510!~moonythed@pl3495.ag1212.nttpc.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533461384 857721 :Guest42510!~moonythed@pl3495.ag1212.nttpc.ne.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1533461512 687604 :krushia14!~krushia@113.176.64.158 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533461556 579221 :lolmac!~lolmac@93-103-33-123.dynamic.t-2.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533461795 393424 :krushia14!~krushia@113.176.64.158 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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< 1533462610 286754 :OGF11!~OGF@p6fd93bac.ymgcnt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533462632 503941 :Xiti25!~Xiti@host-2-96-122-144.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533462634 384521 :OGF11!~OGF@p6fd93bac.ymgcnt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1533462993 517046 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533463702 625745 :PityDaFool12!~PityDaFoo@89.144.164.250 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533464166 904006 :Xenthys0!~Xenthys@171.5.114.207 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1533464167 381657 :Madcotto23!~Madcotto@softbank126085057174.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533467399 185307 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533470060 588083 :GTAXL0!~GTAXL@123.20.186.160 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533472335 865414 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: a balcony?
< 1533472478 306162 :Notiche0!~Notiche@178.253.237.163 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533473014 45921 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
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< 1533485549 981214 :Gizmokid20059!~Gizmokid2@95-24-206-233.broadband.corbina.ru JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533497177 729473 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1533499427 838311 :F4RR3LL!~F4RR3LL@123.20.0.223 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533499775 403503 :F4RR3LL!~F4RR3LL@123.20.0.223 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533499835 168388 :gregf!~gregf@103.98.189.125 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533499957 43207 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533500788 518792 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :New unit of mass:
< 1533500795 119696 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Horsepower-hour-hour-hour per acre
< 1533500820 120194 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's about 8.6 teragrams
< 1533501000 271466 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happened to measuring mass in metres like everything else hth
< 1533501075 996031 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, you can't measure everything with the same scale
< 1533501102 405012 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :my book says the mass of the sun is ~1.5km
< 1533501175 458393 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is apparently ~5 µs
< 1533501185 665619 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's about 231 zetta horsepower hour hour hours per acre
< 1533501227 434051 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meters seem a lot more weildly for this, it has to be said
< 1533501250 762550 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :just measure everything in microseconds
< 1533501256 990693 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: is this because a few days ago I said that a yard is approximately two pound meters per kilogram, and you want to top it?
< 1533501279 619696 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I didn't see that.
< 1533501288 999250 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't see that either
< 1533501294 619493 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1533501311 801414 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly people in this channel just like using unconventional units
< 1533501317 929869 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So 1µs is ~300m
< 1533501335 113989 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I presume the conversion here is the speed of lite
< 1533501337 478428 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*light
< 1533501340 686600 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1533501345 493445 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think phonetically...)
< 1533501369 261818 :Guest51933!~Guest5193@115.40.26.212 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533501390 852887 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You also need the gravitational constant to convert mass.
< 1533501401 885933 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :look, my electric bill is measured in kilowatt hours, the speed limits are in kilometers per hour, the particle physicists measure energy in electron volts (which I think is actually -1 times what you get if you multiply an electron with a volt),
< 1533501421 172434 :Guest51933!~Guest5193@115.40.26.212 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1533501430 286981 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, G is only known to four significant digits?
< 1533501465 697357 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the astronomers cosmologists use like five different units of measure for distances alone, my digital blood pressure meter and my doctor gives my blood pressure in millimeters of mercury, and let's not even talk about the chemists,
< 1533501500 682052 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when I fly on a plane the height is given in either meters or feet, so don't tell me that we're using metric in Europe.
< 1533501503 994886 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We aren't.
< 1533501506 287627 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :a least it's not inches of mercury hth
< 1533501524 815304 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am trying, but there's only so much I can do.
< 1533501548 475144 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The metric system is scow anyway. Everyone should use natural units.
< 1533501600 974572 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am giving lengths in meters when my co-workers want to variously use micrometers, millimeters, centimeters, or meters, depending on what they measure.
< 1533501760 177407 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm watching the great videos of the youtubing woodworker Matthias Wandel, who randomly uses meters, centimeters, decimeters, millimeters, thousands of inches, inches, sixteenths of inches, and feet for lengths of parts of the objects he builds, and he's Canadian, where they're supposedly using metric too.
< 1533501882 944608 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is using seconds for mass meaningful?
< 1533501910 340334 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using metres for mass indicates the Schwarzschild radius or something.
< 1533501919 664803 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And as I work with cameras, I have to know that the reciprocial of the tangent of the half of the angle of view or whatever that is of a camera is given as "35 mm equivalent focal distance", which means
< 1533501951 718856 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what does 5µs mean?
< 1533501983 787534 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it's measured in multiplies of the width or height or diagonal of the "35 millimeter film", which is 36 millimeter high and 24 millimeter tall, depending on whether it's for a horizontal or vertical or diagonal angle of view.
< 1533502005 852058 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I've read how this works several times but I still can't remember it.
< 1533502025 835789 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh I guess astronomy is useless for measuring G... so we have to measure miniscule forces instead. Fun.
< 1533502049 757836 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And to make it worse, descriptions use "focal distance" to mean either the real focal distance, the 35 millimeter equivalent focal distance in horizontal, in vertical, or in diagonal.
< 1533502053 81701 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Astronomy uses G to infer masses.)
< 1533502092 833825 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This inherent difficulty has caused big G to become the only fundamental constant of physics for which the uncertainty of the standard value has risen over time as more and more measurements are made." -- fun :)
< 1533502123 625246 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is looking at https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/puzzling-measurement-of-big-g-gravitational-constant-ignites-debate-slide-show/

< 1533502483 708184 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, int-e: yes, and the other problem is that nobody can yet make an object whose mass is more stable for decades than a relative 10**-8, so we don't have a definition for kilogram compared across different times that is more accurate than that, and it will probably get worse if you want to compare accurate scientific measurements a century fr
< 1533502483 767232 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :om now,
< 1533502506 265984 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and experimental physicists are trying to figure out a way to improve that with some riddiculous arrangement involving counting atoms in a ball of silicon that sounds like it could never work but the physicists swear that it actually will.
< 1533502609 737262 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand, they can measure distances and time and the Planck constant unimaginably precisely, which seems amazing and impossible.
< 1533502688 355134 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that is how GPSes work, in the sense that that's why GPS satellites itself know their time and place very accurately,
< 1533502828 931146 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus there's the additional trick that sounds crazy at first but works when you think about it, that inside the satellite there's a test mass freely floating in vacuum never touched by anything heavier than a few photons, heavily shielded from the various radiations of space, and the GPS measures where that test mass is and corrects its own positio
< 1533502829 10723 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :n with thrusters according to it, so that it doesn't drift because of solar wind or other particles.
< 1533502852 199027 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fucking test mass is effectively in a better vacuum than space, which is saying something.
< 1533502873 925108 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it actually works, because in space, you can make such a perfect vacuum. On earth, it's impossible even in the best laboratories.
< 1533502950 306379 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we actually need satellites in space for GPS, anything in the atmosphere or on earth wouldn't work precisely enough, regardless of how it couldn't communicate with GPS receivers, because it can't maintain and measure its own position accurately enough.
< 1533502966 389761 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least, this is my naive understanding from what I've read.
< 1533503004 527651 :Cool_Fire!~Cool_Fire@138.red-79-154-82.dynamicip.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533503045 411943 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And on top of that, the GPS satellites still have to be corrected for the irregular gravitational field of Earth and relativistic effects.
< 1533503162 245166 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The GPS receivers themselves are quite a technological achievement and have a lot of fiddly parts to get right too, by the way.
< 1533503289 981830 :Cool_Fire!~Cool_Fire@138.red-79-154-82.dynamicip.rima-tde.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1533503435 376442 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swiss Ephemeris and SQLite are both using Julian day numbers for date/time, so the program to use them together can use this too.
< 1533503895 154913 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: are they the Julian number measured in exactly the same way?
< 1533503930 444695 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, to second accuracy, because you were asking about leap seconds.
< 1533504275 404842 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533504446 637572 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would seem so; a query such as   SELECT DATETIME(JULIANDAY()),DATETIME(JULIANDAY_UT1());   gives the same date/time in each case. However, I do not know what SQLite does with leap seconds, although Swiss Ephemeris does handle leap seconds (even if the operating system doesn't, which means that using these functions with no arguments may give an incorrect answer during a leap second).
< 1533504837 404376 :Guest10225!~abraxis@2804:18:4e:3937:88db:6b50:3a1a:29cb JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533509469 380851 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533510002 876229 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.6.5+deb2build2 - http://znc.in
< 1533510021 686748 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533510025 703061 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1533510267 649218 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGIRL, dying...
< 1533510816 689967 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: nostril.
< 1533510817 46403 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: after evaluating ( g x ( f y t)) ( apply foo x)
> 1533512165 915040 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57241&oldid=57240 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (+0) 10Syntax Confliction Resolved.
> 1533512195 172665 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57242&oldid=57241 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (-143) 10/* Instruction Syntax */
< 1533515113 390005 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: ANIMATED CHICKEN
< 1533515319 723909 :wob_jonas!b03f193d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.61 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
> 1533515657 751279 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57243&oldid=57242 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (-59) 10Boop.
< 1533515754 959379 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qnqsjqdbxfanrzad QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1533515820 497942 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533515906 489669 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1533516894 798106 :Selavi8!~Selavi@ADijon-652-1-111-104.w90-56.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533516944 247773 :Selavi8!~Selavi@ADijon-652-1-111-104.w90-56.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1533517660 712828 :NightMonkey5!~NightMonk@184.170.0.35 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533518009 55830 :NightMonkey5!~NightMonk@184.170.0.35 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1533518340 603040 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2
< 1533519176 814737 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving...
< 1533519357 171930 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1533519520 684406 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533520027 501504 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533520265 266612 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell wob_jonas it doesn't count as a balcony because it's not protruding.
< 1533520265 327083 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1533520371 570501 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i stopped gnawing my toes some time during childhood. never completely managed to stop gnawing on my fingers, alas.
< 1533520447 156604 :OGF14!~OGF@171.13.116.99 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533520480 880137 :Shibe8!~Shibe@184.170.23.93 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533520571 651260 :OGF14!~OGF@171.13.116.99 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533520835 430406 :Shibe8!~Shibe@184.170.23.93 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533523892 503911 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533525144 266188 :urdh8!~urdh@123.20.41.68 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533525156 546253 :urdh8!~urdh@123.20.41.68 QUIT :K-Lined
< 1533525211 53406 :ZexaronS!~ZexaronS@121.63.62.134 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533525515 397849 :ZexaronS!~ZexaronS@121.63.62.134 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533528743 223181 :moondoggy8!~moondoggy@27.16.236.95 JOIN :#esoteric
> 1533528969 808770 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Turing machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57244&oldid=50650 5* 03A 5* (+72) 10Don't forget that there's an online simulator.
< 1533528997 609141 :moondoggy8!~moondoggy@27.16.236.95 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533529004 668262 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to determine with Xlib if a window was created using this client?
< 1533529486 588731 :niko22!~niko@156.219.232.77 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533529568 126595 :niko22!~niko@156.219.232.77 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533530436 112566 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
> 1533530682 607761 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57245&oldid=57218 5* 03A 5* (+433) 10
> 1533530744 244234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57246&oldid=57245 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10Spelling..
> 1533531924 258185 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Metafractran14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=57247 5* 03Challenger5 5* (+839) 10Created page with "'''Metafractran''' is a derivative of [[Fractran]] created by [[User:Challenger5]] in which all program files are irrelevant. Rather than being specified by a program file, co..."
> 1533532051 554134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Challenger514]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57248&oldid=54233 5* 03Challenger5 5* (+128) 10
> 1533532120 141385 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Metafractran14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57249&oldid=57247 5* 03Challenger5 5* (+42) 10
< 1533532587 840886 :codex2064!~codex2064@ip68-12-152-220.ok.ok.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533532675 16583 :codex2064!~codex2064@ip68-12-152-220.ok.ok.cox.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533533253 8951 :bitch2!~bitch@185.30.27.164 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533533297 382178 :mist8!~mist@FL1-221-171-61-64.aki.mesh.ad.jp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533533314 579394 :mist8!~mist@FL1-221-171-61-64.aki.mesh.ad.jp QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1533533419 310536 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533533470 395257 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533533602 9232 :bitch2!~bitch@185.30.27.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1533533735 405032 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533534255 931306 :hsiktas12!~hsiktas@168.232.130.239 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533534566 221206 :hsiktas12!~hsiktas@168.232.130.239 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1533535196 609615 :hipp!~hipp@190-37-21-249.dyn.dsl.cantv.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533535269 618857 :hipp!~hipp@190-37-21-249.dyn.dsl.cantv.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533536243 319224 :SerpentSpeech!~SerpentSp@unnum-78-27-171-175.domashka.kiev.ua JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533536349 10906 :SerpentSpeech!~SerpentSp@unnum-78-27-171-175.domashka.kiev.ua QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533536665 281067 :yaewa!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533536829 956997 :phoe4!~phoe@softbank060127093074.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533537397 369952 :nlsun!~nlsun@110.138.95.41 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533537401 854406 :nlsun!~nlsun@110.138.95.41 NICK :Guest4636
< 1533537412 47898 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533537730 569429 :Guest4636!~nlsun@110.138.95.41 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1533538655 366313 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
< 1533538727 699037 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533538814 97708 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I made up a SQLite extension for displaying pictures on a X server.
< 1533539211 328075 :ReimuHakurei3!~ReimuHaku@60.22.218.162 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533539330 562170 :ReimuHakurei3!~ReimuHaku@60.22.218.162 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533539771 47247 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fllgrykjvnkatpjh QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
> 1533539848 663987 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57250&oldid=57243 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (-72) 10/* Instruction Syntax */ Fixed a little error.
< 1533540351 511065 :pppingme27!~pppingme@95.235.98.138 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533540463 975180 :pppingme27!~pppingme@95.235.98.138 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533541040 183932 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533541040 770897 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a QUIT :Changing host
< 1533541040 770947 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533541400 997272 :sn0wmonster10!~sn0wmonst@37.114.184.119 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533541774 19082 :sn0wmonster10!~sn0wmonst@37.114.184.119 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1533541803 390265 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533542138 887356 :kasa!~kasa@111.95.25.215 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533542454 255602 :kasa!~kasa@111.95.25.215 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
> 1533542483 865275 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57251&oldid=57250 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (+0) 10/* S */ Update to String Get to match String Put.
< 1533542941 577496 :Lumpi27!~Lumpi@152.0.5.107 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533543147 276676 :Lumpi27!~Lumpi@152.0.5.107 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533543809 867589 :pinPoint12!~pinPoint@194.146.228.70 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533543840 235952 :pinPoint12!~pinPoint@194.146.228.70 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533543947 587334 :Thanks!~Thanks@61.80.135.19 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533544036 774881 :Thanks!~Thanks@61.80.135.19 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533544128 75227 :cwre!~cwre@i114-180-56-190.s42.a014.ap.plala.or.jp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533544163 857655 :cwre!~cwre@i114-180-56-190.s42.a014.ap.plala.or.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533545661 257086 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you going to write the specification of Von Neumann's 29-state cellular automaton in esolang wiki?
< 1533546013 345313 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533546213 637513 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1533546381 1827 :manish23!~manish@95-43-62-59.ip.btc-net.bg JOIN :#esoteric
> 1533546432 854602 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ZZT-Flip14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57252&oldid=57061 5* 03Zzo38 5* (+32) 10
< 1533546434 287983 :manish23!~manish@95-43-62-59.ip.btc-net.bg QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1533546674 124466 :r3m26!~r3m@59.18.249.111 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533546776 476308 :r3m26!~r3m@59.18.249.111 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533547205 413206 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533547289 189238 :SlashLife1!~SlashLife@131.108.166-219.netwaytelecon.com.br JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533547365 852187 :SlashLife1!~SlashLife@131.108.166-219.netwaytelecon.com.br QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533547871 682154 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533548020 298661 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1533549065 532534 :K0HAX13!~K0HAX@118.97.167.126 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533549395 393368 :K0HAX13!~K0HAX@118.97.167.126 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
> 1533549579 879081 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Turing-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57253&oldid=56631 5* 03A 5* (+188) 10My attempt of interpreting a 3-state Busy-Beaver(on wikipedia)(maybe that will prove it Turing-complete?)
> 1533549614 53774 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Turing-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57254&oldid=57253 5* 03A 5* (-32) 10
< 1533549772 349361 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533549987 636159 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1533550049 419247 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1533550092 400217 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm, what's this... a 3 state TM over a binary alphabet?
< 1533550270 862981 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is not happy with states being called "conditions".

> 1533550392 111320 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Turing-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57255&oldid=57254 5* 03A 5* (+1) 10
< 1533550429 647427 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I think it is appropriate to say that A is in a condition of willful ignorance
< 1533550434 241873 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or perhaps a state)
< 1533550616 899859 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/utm.png seems relevant
< 1533550750 517835 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but I have not checked they count states)
< 1533550758 76662 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, *how* they count states
< 1533551031 951321 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533551935 272419 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe QUIT :Quit: Hugs~ <3
< 1533552325 257307 :trobotham4!~trobotham@223.29.204.74 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533552366 741908 :trobotham4!~trobotham@223.29.204.74 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533552662 312623 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533552866 742283 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: PLEASE CHICKEN
< 1533554337 451397 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533557238 49278 :cottongin10!~cottongin@ANantes-654-1-261-218.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533557334 993047 :cottongin10!~cottongin@ANantes-654-1-261-218.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
> 1533557487 405612 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Turing-machine14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=57256 5* 03Int-e 5* (+397) 10Created page with "== Computational class == According to [https://arxiv.org/abs/1110.2230 T. Neary and D. Woods], it was shown by L. Pavlotskaya that the halting problem is decidable for all Tu..."
< 1533557930 392780 :FrozenFox18!~FrozenFox@211.201.138.44 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533558042 512314 :FrozenFox18!~FrozenFox@211.201.138.44 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533559474 609425 :ollien23!~ollien@105.102.204.147 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533559521 825084 :ollien23!~ollien@105.102.204.147 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533560321 224990 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yftdzqwwncgpnsty JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533560818 129400 :hggdh1!~hggdh@pcsp166-241.dynamic.supercable.net.ve JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533560839 157003 :hggdh1!~hggdh@pcsp166-241.dynamic.supercable.net.ve QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533562191 519211 :radiofree29!~radiofree@ZF091204.ppp.dion.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533562195 678601 :radiofree29!~radiofree@ZF091204.ppp.dion.ne.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533562434 809970 :Patrick28!~Patrick@103.208.152.194 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533562666 726543 :Guest43996!~Guest4399@41.139.244.130 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533562691 980146 :Guest43996!~Guest4399@41.139.244.130 QUIT :K-Lined
< 1533562737 662833 :Patrick28!~Patrick@103.208.152.194 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533563863 421631 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533565593 780653 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533565594 88505 :Yurume_______!23f9939a@121.78.85.35 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533565603 284899 :Gregor!~Gregor@2001:470:1:41:a800:ff:fe3e:ad41 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533565653 280239 :shikhin!shikhin@lambdaos.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533565681 428339 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533565694 322410 :Gregor`!~Gregor@2605:2700:0:17:a800:ff:fe3e:ad41 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533565740 46278 :Yurume_______!23f9939a@121.78.85.35 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533565827 702225 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533565897 346625 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533566249 995292 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533566474 29143 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:d10a:f6bb:395e:293f QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1533567063 127501 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533567267 70187 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:699c:a716:1b3e:6b38 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533567493 43590 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533568373 185343 :ravioli14!~ravioli@118.69.9.176 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533568705 321343 :ravioli14!~ravioli@118.69.9.176 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1533568759 10390 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1533568825 557131 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533569028 656745 :Shanmugamp715!~Shanmugam@119.199.117.248 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533569075 694077 :Shanmugamp715!~Shanmugam@119.199.117.248 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533569102 474175 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1533569629 576007 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1533569939 993463 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533570317 160595 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh heck.
< 1533570391 29029 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently "does" is another of those English words like "are", which both have a really common meaning and a rare one, so the rare one is completely impossible to search, because in an English you don't even have any hope to automatically parse the sentence and guess whether it's a noun or verb.
< 1533570401 736656 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages
< 1533570610 876156 :arooni17!~arooni@110.12.95.154 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533570649 355547 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533570714 231522 :arooni17!~arooni@110.12.95.154 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533570776 936928 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, plural of "doe"?
< 1533570913 466130 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1533571011 976982 :Looking20!~Looking@39.117.161.71 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533571055 487135 :Looking20!~Looking@39.117.161.71 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533571096 392735 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: yes. but you can check a dictionary.
< 1533571136 29558 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm also a native speaker, which affords some advantages
< 1533571150 293041 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and don't tell me you don't have one. I said a rare word, not a whatever rarity is below mythic rare word that you only find in the OED.)
< 1533571171 147112 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there are free English dictionaries on the internet.)
< 1533571174 387878 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I genuinely don't have a physical dictionary)
< 1533571201 637263 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although I did know both the noun definition of "does" and "are", the latter I learnt only yesterday)
< 1533571202 97814 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: yes, but you have an internet connection, and you don't need the OED, you only need one of those dictionaries you can access freely
< 1533571239 575864 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rare words are in most of those, mythic rare words are in the best of those. there's a rarity below that, but I almost never meet such words, and if I saw one, I'd think it's an error.
< 1533571311 559052 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: there's also a verb definition for "art", and it's a form of "be", which also causes some problems in searching, but in this case the noun is more common than the verb
< 1533571343 991436 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then there's "Ares" and "ares", which are two different words, the latter is the plural of the noun "are"
< 1533571347 291667 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it gets complicated
< 1533571915 282590 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have a dictionary, and I know those stuff
< 1533572465 676870 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533572662 881775 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know if there is a better way of making working interrupting downloads in my "sqlext_curl" SQLite extension?
< 1533572777 431691 :ptx018!~ptx0@FL1-122-130-34-118.tky.mesh.ad.jp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533572829 53655 :ptx018!~ptx0@FL1-122-130-34-118.tky.mesh.ad.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533572853 161827 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you count words so rare that you only find them in the OED, it gets stupid, because there's at least one super-mythic rare meaning for any reasonable combination of letters you care for, and possibly several super-mythic rare meanings for any very common word.
< 1533572896 690293 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: better way than what?
< 1533572909 94765 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have a documentation of your extension somewhere, or something?
< 1533572945 861978 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and are you asking about the curl side, the sqlite interface side, or both?
< 1533573002 309679 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :A list of my SQLite extensions are at http://zzo38computer.org/sql/sqlite.txt and sqlext.zip in the same directory contains the source codes and further documentation. I am asking about the SQLite side, although there may be stuff in libcurl too.
< 1533573064 718217 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I am currently doing is to prepare the statement "WITH X AS (SELECT 0 UNION ALL SELECT * FROM X) SELECT * FROM X;" and then pass it as the first argument to the progress callback, which then does:  return sqlite3_step(usr)!=SQLITE_ROW;
< 1533573087 122469 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, that looks like klugy to me.
< 1533573255 332625 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Sorry, I have to leave for a few hours now, but may read that later.
< 1533573257 781896 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1533573296 76435 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in
< 1533573405 662842 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533573501 89892 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yftdzqwwncgpnsty QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1533574062 573766 :aloril_!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1533574602 937863 :Contessa!~Contessa@56-24-184-213-static.uwm.edu.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533574603 588703 :fireworks10!~fireworks@213.185.240.65 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533574781 865092 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533574816 299966 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
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< 1533574884 404709 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533574895 388517 :Contessa!~Contessa@56-24-184-213-static.uwm.edu.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533575371 231210 :Cronus15!~Cronus@181.192.8.78 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533575757 878567 :Cronus15!~Cronus@181.192.8.78 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1533576359 599423 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533576580 265864 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533576580 521999 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a QUIT :Changing host
< 1533576580 522049 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533576925 215583 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533577202 314896 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
> 1533577623 219574 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57257&oldid=57251 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (-1) 10/* If Statements */ \_()_/
< 1533578529 442039 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1533578674 891799 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533579123 447829 :cods6!~cods@host-92-28-61-135.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533579163 195954 :cods6!~cods@host-92-28-61-135.as13285.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533580015 348575 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1533580166 728141 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533580337 913418 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will Pope Francis I do Vatican III?
< 1533580404 378472 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533580467 502299 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533580497 671347 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533580528 346578 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533580789 232351 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533580904 75302 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533580918 60921 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533580966 2692 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533581056 39839 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I doubt it
< 1533581141 286562 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will Pope Francis M do Vatican III?
< 1533581364 162017 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, what is the highest number that any pope has had? Probably not as high as M, I should think?
< 1533581388 574857 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't M the mobile version?
< 1533581418 411967 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :M is the roman numbers for one thousand
< 1533581660 329330 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ekexmlbcswrlmedu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533581725 202509 :Cajs10!~Cajs@219.140.199.91 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533581766 658570 :Cajs10!~Cajs@219.140.199.91 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533582023 42235 :x49F8!~x49F@37.218.10.93 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533582409 13957 :x49F8!~x49F@37.218.10.93 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1533584285 871497 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw hexadecimal roman: i ii iv v vi vii viv vv vvi vvii vviv (≡ivx) vx vxi vxii vxiv (≡ix) x xi xii xiv xv … xlvxiv (≡il) l … (i = 1, v = 4, x = 16, l = 64, c = 256 etc)
< 1533584354 83050 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :unparenthesized variants correspond to usual quatenary numeric system with digits 0, 1, 2, 3, and parenthesized ones correspond to the one with digits −1, 0, 1, 2
< 1533584372 311078 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :afair
< 1533584459 869571 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be prefixed or postfixed e. g. by H as in some asms to distinguish from the usual romans
< 1533584496 85176 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :also this pre/postfixation allows one to represent zero: H in the last case
< 1533584583 858131 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wpemnouzpdjeqyix JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533584801 454016 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-137-99.cdrr.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1533584838 810999 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1533584988 630019 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-137-99.cdrr.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533585102 201886 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533585160 521625 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone said tabs should appear in your history when you closed them, not when you opened them. But my opinion is you should be allowed to define your own SQL queries for the history menus.
< 1533585363 218078 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wise
< 1533585396 211104 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1533585534 992008 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533585575 302257 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1533585764 316955 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533585790 361533 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: look, I'd like a new representation of hexadecimal numbers, but I hate roman numbers so please don't base this on them. please invent something that is at least sort of positional and can represent large numbers too.
< 1533585850 552733 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ideally, one that can represent hexadecimal floating point numbers, so there's a way to mark the sign and the exponent and the exponent of the sign, though the exponent itself can be in decimal, describe the full syntax.
< 1533585868 265839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: wouldn't it not be hexadecimal if you changed it to anything but place-value notation?
< 1533585869 671490 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and a decimal point. I forgot that part.
< 1533585891 637690 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did see something else where the digits 7 to 1 are written upside down to make the stuff after 8, was someone's idea too I think
< 1533585920 174417 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This was on a clock; hexadecimal timekeeping was invented by many people independently, some from before computer machines were invented.)
< 1533585920 404632 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it isn't a decimal point unless you're using decimal
< 1533585967 858785 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mostly, but if you, say, optionally insert a cat's scratch mark between every four digits, then I'm willing to still call that hexadecimal
< 1533586046 13934 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and perhaps if there are two separate sets of glyphs for digits, either used alternately, or one set used when you want non-grid digits like when you'd use old style numerals in decimal, that's still fine.
< 1533586059 552567 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's hard enough to find *one* good set of digits that doesn't clash with something else.
< 1533586077 200271 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously it depends on what you want to use it for
< 1533586107 6654 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like one that's human-readable and human-writable and machine-readable and machine-writable
< 1533586193 70841 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And reasonably easy to learn, not requiring months of training in the basics of arabic or eastern calligraphy, and then differences in stroke order of one digit depending on whether it's in chinese or japanese text.
< 1533586228 860530 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That reminds me, I have a question.
< 1533586287 370122 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you read what I wrote before you were off a while ago today?
< 1533586292 998094 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where can I find, ideally for free on the internet, a description with detailed illustrations on how to handwrite Russian,
< 1533586340 986489 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in one of those fancy archaic ways that people used three decades ago or would use on a diploma a dentist puts on his wall, but in a way that I can quickly use for jotting down a few names for reference,
< 1533586357 570276 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, but I might would try looking in Wikipedia first to see if they have any
< 1533586390 246437 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it should include the entire modern Russian alphabet in both upper and lower case, and all variants required if I want to write entire words in lower case, and ideally stress accents and basic punctuation too.
< 1533586460 783322 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I did look. I found only an image showing what looks like older fancy handwriting, with like a single sample for each letter or perhaps two sets of samples, each isolated rather than connected despite that it looks like these are letters designed for connecting the lowercase ones.
< 1533586469 20823 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no stroke order.
< 1533586508 54076 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1533586549 440822 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :One possibility is that I should just pay a private Russian language tutor that I visit in person for a short course or something. But that might cost a ton of money.
< 1533586587 48998 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you do then you can write a book.
< 1533586588 270278 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo: oh, I'll get back to that in a moment, thanks for reminding
< 1533586623 600326 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: or at least a short few-page guide. not a full-length book from what I learn.
< 1533586647 672152 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1533586650 405526 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533586657 2556 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would cost a ton because it would probably be one-on-one lessons, and those cost a lot, because a language teacher can realistically ask for 17000 HUF per 45 minutes or even more
< 1533586692 114482 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this would take more than 90 minutes, I think.
< 1533586740 636860 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My current workaround is to write the ISO 9 transcripted equivalent, because I know how to handwrite latin letters with diacritics
< 1533587246 727181 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But before I forget, another question.
< 1533587255 793522 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: And ideally, one that can represent hexadecimal floating point numbers, so there's a way to mark the sign and the exponent and the exponent of the sign, though the exponent itself can be in decimal, describe the full syntax. => in that case, what’s wrong with the usual hexadecimal? :P
< 1533587321 427873 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, for bonus, I'd also like a pronunciation for the hexadecimal numbers, although there are already at least two reasonable systems for that. And if possible, also a long pronunciation system, for noisy environments.
< 1533587463 224066 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder what the two most differentiable sounds are? you could use them to spell out the nybbles in binary
< 1533587489 694204 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: there are multiple things wrong. some of them can't be fixed by another standard: nobody can agree if the digits A-Z should be uppercase or lowercase, some programs only accept uppercase (TeX and bc and dc; and you definitely can't change those), but many programs emit lowercase (including some /proc interfaces in the kernel), and I think
< 1533587489 851866 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I've even seen programs that only accept lowercase.
< 1533587538 376706 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I believe that uppercase is standard; the issue is that in many libraries it's customizable
< 1533587552 70772 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. C *printf uses %X or %x for hex according to the case of letters you want
< 1533587566 152939 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that would be hard for the mind of both the listener and the speaker, and also the most differentiable ones are very long and varied, to make sure it works for different background noises and loud noises blotting out different moments entirely.
< 1533587570 402796 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem there is that most printf specifiers are lowercase
< 1533587575 248078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so people tend to use %x out of consistency
< 1533587592 549498 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you want pronouncable ones, right? if not, probably a fucking loud air raid siren and silence.
< 1533587609 810738 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I guess they need to be self-delimiting too
< 1533587628 703950 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"upwards chirp" and "downwards chirp" might work, it's very rare to misinterpret one as the other
< 1533587635 495790 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might be unsure which you've heard but then you can ask for a resend
< 1533587635 583052 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is a C struct/union type?
< 1533587640 559830 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps a jet engine and silence, because I'm not sure air raid siren sounds are actually well designed for some hard-on-hearing people who only hear low frequency sounds
< 1533587650 585519 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what level of abstraction are you asking at?
< 1533587658 824569 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to involve a bunch of different properties.
< 1533587690 743451 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess what it includes is, at least: A sizeof; a namespace of members; for each member, an offset.
< 1533587697 508877 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there are solutions for sounds that aren't self-delimiting if the two sounds are of equal length: what serial lines does works
< 1533587706 87742 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: oh, I see
< 1533587720 681319 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But also something like a calling convention which lets you pass a struct type in registers etc.
< 1533587722 116020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in very early versions of C, members weren't namespaced, and were just constants describing the offset
< 1533587723 488473 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, wrapping them so they're now delimited
< 1533587734 652362 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's changed since
< 1533587746 479335 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeX uses lowercase hex for ^^ and uppercase hex for "
< 1533587772 305974 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if the calling convention is part of the struct type itself, normally ABIs will have a clause about "here's how you give a structure that's six bytes long as a parameter", or the like
< 1533587781 544437 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not strictly the calling convention.
< 1533587785 377687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, more complex ABIs may care about whether the struct contains ints or floats…
< 1533587793 385231 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I mean is that it says "if you specify a value for each member, you've specified the entire struct"
< 1533587804 305506 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if there's some extra memory for alignment or something.
< 1533587809 66273 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no no, the calling conventions are all defined on each architecture deterministically from the definition of the C struct, which contains the order and type and name (and field width if you're masochistic) of each member plus the alignas specifier and attributes on the struct itself.
< 1533587823 237249 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: and the sizeof is part of the calling conventions
< 1533587827 756569 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the struct itself doesn't include the calling convention, but you see what I'm getting at.
< 1533587850 390893 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think == works on structs, does it?
< 1533587851 280446 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A struct isn't just a thing in memory with offsets, it can have different representations.
< 1533587862 272206 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't think memcmp does either because it compares padding bytes
< 1533587908 831636 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Where can I find, ideally for free on the internet, a description with detailed illustrations on how to handwrite Russian, // not in one of those fancy archaic ways that people used three decades ago or would use on a diploma a dentist puts on his wall, but in a way that I can quickly use for jotting down a few names for reference => oh neat one! I am native and I didn’t search too much, but after that little search I think
< 1533587908 936415 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : it’s still described in full only in paper textbooks for children :\
< 1533587909 6188 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIR letter connections are fairly simple, only several letters have two forms (в, о, ю, ь, ъ — all because of circles at the right, but I can’t remember about ф in this regard). If there wouldn’t be any better findings, I’ll try to fix something (I don’t use this style in my handwritting, it’s a mishmash of styles, but this one is too slow to use consistently
< 1533587938 476331 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you pass a struct with two members to a function, it's permitted to just pass the two values in registers, without passing the padding in, right?
< 1533587939 186228 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: do you want to know the rules of calling conventions for C and C++ structs on linux-x86_32 and linux-x86_64 and win32-x86_32 and win32-x86_64? I have link to both the ELF specs defining the linux C special case, and Agner's writeup which describes them in a readable way.
< 1533587971 616698 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I'm not so much asking about any particular architecture but about what the language construct is.
< 1533588004 979699 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also look up in a C/C++ compiler source code, or a debugger source code, or even most of the C calling conventions in a haskell compiler or rust compiler source code, although a few crazy pieces like bitfields and atomics may be missing from the latter
< 1533588007 885132 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is struct assignment with = required to copy padding? I would imagine not?
< 1533588033 901584 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: oh, do you mean the semantics of structs guaranteed by the language for all architecture?
< 1533588045 813194 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe?
< 1533588062 157374 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not really thinking about C here, I'm trying to figure out how you might define structs in another language.
< 1533588069 416950 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a bit complicated. I can point you to the respective standards, but it's likely better to ask on the ##c and ##c++ channels on freenode
< 1533588070 747467 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you make structs/unions a user-defined thing?
< 1533588096 394600 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so what information would they need?
< 1533588112 591684 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: do you mean you want to know about structs in rust or D or some other specific language?
< 1533588112 996586 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Oh, for bonus, I'd also like a pronunciation for the hexadecimal numbers, although there are already at least two reasonable systems for that. And if possible, also a long pronunciation system, for noisy environments. => I pass then :D
< 1533588124 487320 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: No, a hypothetical language.
< 1533588153 461387 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: IIRC parameter passing is defined as initialisation, which wouldn't copy padding as it's conceptually field-by-field
< 1533588159 195628 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: a hypothetical language can define its rules however you want, but you might want to find out about the rules in existing similar languages first
< 1533588170 743801 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Right.
< 1533588173 135196 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's for C, right?
< 1533588190 609020 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: OK, is there any language that supports something like user-defined struct data types?
< 1533588214 892322 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think there's some magic in the standard that actually lets it overwrite the padding bits and bytes if the compiler chooses to, because in practice that's often faster
< 1533588218 562127 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: yes, we're talking about C
< 1533588232 978072 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think initialisation puts any requirement on what the padding bits are
< 1533588243 857709 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a memcpy would be allowed by the as-if rule
< 1533588274 11157 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: C, C++, rust, D, probably more but I don't really know any by heart
< 1533588288 222497 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm saying because the C++ rules are much more complicated
< 1533588295 433984 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I mean user-defined as in "struct isn't a fundamental notion in the language"
< 1533588320 982646 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But instead you define a type and say that this is the sizeof and there are values at these offsets and so on.
< 1533588336 935439 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: oh, sometimes I feel better if I pretend C++ doesn't exist
< 1533588348 894567 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: are algebraic types, ML-like, or rust enums, a fundamental concept?
< 1533588357 226558 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's something like three languages at this point
< 1533588367 346545 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Go, the "namespace" aspect is a bit more explicit: You can write "type A struct { x int; y int; }; type B struct { A; ... }", and then refer to "b.x"
< 1533588368 425708 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: oh, you want one where you define the memory representation and perhaps even the calling convention?
< 1533588373 924297 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, I wonder what the two most differentiable sounds are? you could use them to spell out the nybbles in binary => maybe something noisy, a fricative like [ʃ] or [ç] or something, and something sonorant like a vowel, maybe a closed one like [i] or [u] or [y] will do better (IDK)
< 1533588379 967159 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think some assemblers let you define structs like that
< 1533588382 897774 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: in OCaml too
< 1533588386 141010 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can give arbitrary offsets
< 1533588405 136437 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then you have to write all the code that reads and write the struct, you can only refer to the offset values conveniently
< 1533588412 314841 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, I misread
< 1533588417 414674 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since, you know, that's the whole point of assemblers
< 1533588417 924427 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I don't know about defining the calling convention explicitly so much as specifying the information in the struct to the point that the compiler can figure out a convention.
< 1533588420 217932 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a common extension to C
< 1533588429 416555 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It is possible in some C compilers as well
< 1533588441 594752 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the OCaml method you have to give namespaces explicitly for struct field access
< 1533588450 73842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. say which struct it belongs to
< 1533588453 3132 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, self-delimited fails for thoswe
< 1533588454 701784 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you mean?
< 1533588486 422824 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you can usually just do that by adding specific dummy fields so there's no automatically inserted padding, plus an alignas marking for the struct, and making all fields the right type
< 1533588492 730675 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in the right order too
< 1533588493 76586 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think something like (in C++) "struct B { A base; using namespace base; ... };" could be nice.
< 1533588501 869993 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and possibly including unions
< 1533588515 83981 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you want something exotic like overlapping fields, then you're out of luck unless perhaps you can do it in fortran
< 1533588521 33432 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, partially overlapping fields
< 1533588522 457726 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unions are "just" structs where all the members have offset 0.
< 1533588547 455787 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I mean, two fields where the upper part of one overlaps the lower part of the other
< 1533588552 672155 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kind of? I guess the calling convention can get tricky.
< 1533588564 754406 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you can use unions, and with GNU C you can also have zero length arrays
< 1533588570 918026 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care about overlapping fields very much, I think in a case like that you might be better off doing it manually.
< 1533588592 234511 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I think you can do even that with unnamed unions, which C and rust now have, and unions in C++ at the cost of it being slightly more difficult to reference the fields
< 1533588598 490828 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: C99 has something similar to zero-length arrays.
< 1533588625 706810 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the GCC documentation mentions that, but it isn't as good as real zero-length arrays, I think
< 1533588633 916750 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ and rust both have improved support for unions now, although rust's isn't perfect yet, but people always want to improve everything in rust, so duh
< 1533588672 534378 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rust has tagged unions, I expect?
< 1533588679 852214 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the untagged kind is rather ridiculously unsafe
< 1533588683 533973 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh, you want zero-length arrays? then write it with rust structs and rust unions, each #[repr(C)] and possibly whatever the new syntax of alignof is
< 1533588702 941655 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: rust fully supports zero-length anything, and even has special language rules to make them work really well
< 1533588732 17392 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only problem is, no anonymous inner structs/unions yet, but there's a proposal, and it will go through because it's needed for wrapping some C interfaces
< 1533588743 782406 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: rust has both
< 1533588745 561986 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc supports zero-length arrays, which is annoying when you're trying to cause an error during type checking
< 1533588756 892540 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use negative lengths to cause an error during type checking.
< 1533588759 778815 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, the untagged is unsafe, but sometimes you want that to control representation exactly
< 1533588761 223625 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is what I do
< 1533588764 796636 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my static_assert implementation has to use a negative-sized array, right
< 1533588772 143465 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tagged ones are called enum
< 1533588786 694503 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In addition to C structs/unions I want to figure out whether C++-style (non-virtual) methods are a good idea or not. They're also an odd mix of several things.
< 1533588792 736220 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a tagged union is really a cross between an enum and a union
< 1533588798 353601 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :enumion
< 1533588801 769736 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and #[repr(C)] enum even have a definite representation now, or will soon have iirc
< 1533588818 271811 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, a representation promised by the language in all future compilers
< 1533588833 886213 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's kind-of weird, C compilers aren't stable as to how to represent enums
< 1533588837 445386 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have also seen using a enum with a division by zero to cause conditional compiler errors)
< 1533588839 344265 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I think only if you add a #[repr(u32)] or similar to tell what type the tag is
< 1533588841 276772 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They give you namespacing, so you can write "v.push(x)" instead of "vector_push(v, x)"
< 1533588853 953339 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The namespacing is nice because you don't have to type the type name everywhere.
< 1533588873 595500 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they also give you an implicit "this" argument, which seems kind of pointless?
< 1533588884 514372 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: some languages use "unified call syntax" where a.f(b) and f(a,b) are syntactic sugar for each other
< 1533588898 103129 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I guess that can work if you have overloaded functions.
< 1533588906 932487 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's kind of ugly to put f in global namespace.
< 1533588908 471732 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in rust, if you add #[repr(C)] #[repr(u32)] or similar for almost any integer type, then the repr is defined, at least in not too old versions, as a struct whose first element is the tag and the second is a union of the variants or of structs of the variants or something.
< 1533588915 904817 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it presumably only makes sense with overloading
< 1533588931 778333 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, I can envisage a language where the options are a.f(b) and n.f(a,b) where n is a namespace
< 1533588934 58877 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the idea of methods is, an object is a "dynamic" namespace which is created at runtime.
< 1533588935 572546 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. a has a "default" namespace
< 1533588940 292516 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in most other cases, it's implementation-defined, because the compiler does some optimizations on the representation that they don't want to promise to be the same in the future, and are a bit long to describe,
< 1533588973 130685 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: like Option<Box<T>> using a null pointer for the Nothing case?
< 1533588988 172450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus not needing a separate tag at all?
< 1533589005 11386 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, although it's more general than that, and complicated
< 1533589022 39026 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't know the full rules, and don't want to know
< 1533589053 187095 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, I was just giving an example of the sort of optimisation you'd expect
< 1533589087 677394 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION vaguely wonders if, in the case that you have an enum where all the payloads are pointers with alignment > 1, it's efficient to put the tag in the low-order bits of the pointers

< 1533589088 898075 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, usually you let the compiler do its thing, but if you want a specific representation for either passing to or from non-rust code or optimization, then you use structs and unions and enums with specific #[repr] tags to achieve exactly the representation you want, like you can do in C too
< 1533589160 166187 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it depends on what you want to optimize for, low memory usage like in the heap of a prolog or scheme compiler, or fast computation like in a struct you just filled and pass to a function?
< 1533589165 60809 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: That also seems like something I'd rather specify in user code instead of as a compiler rule.
< 1533589199 289648 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why the compiler has to be conservative with what optimizations it will do, at least when it has to fix the representation for external crates, rather than when it can get away with anything by the as-if rule
< 1533589214 334757 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have enum<T> { One, Two, Three(Box<T>) }, will it use two invalid pointer values (e.g. 0 and 1) for the first two tags?
< 1533589234 888684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: right, I was mostly just curious as to what the performance was like speed-wise (the memory savings are obvious)
< 1533589257 631634 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 is not an invalid pointer value on all platforms; in fact, 0 is not invalid on all platforms either
< 1533589269 347954 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pointer to 0 might be fairly useful on the 6502
< 1533589278 263364 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1533589287 746898 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this sort of thing is why C gives flexibility for NULL to be something other than all-bits-zero)
< 1533589291 903478 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but besides the optimization for when you tell the compiler that the contents of one branch is a nonzero pointer or integer (wrapped in any abstractions) and there's only two branches, there is an optimization for nested enums, and for enums with only one branch where the arm type isn't void, and I think more
< 1533589298 764620 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But surely on most platforms there are some pointer values that can be considered invalid.
< 1533589309 789035 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: one thing that's not obvious is when you want to put the tag at the start and when at the end
< 1533589312 104768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the time there would normally be unmapped bytes in the middle of the memory space, maybe 0xA000 would make for a good NULL
< 1533589319 492738 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ null pointers-to-members are often represented as -1, because 0 is a reasonable offset.
< 1533589347 898878 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a pointer-to-member? is it effectively a "function pointer for a getter" but optimised?
< 1533589376 201026 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an offset into a struct, more or less.
< 1533589387 160988 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: well, if this is "repr(C)" you'd put the tag at the start, because of the guarantees C gives about struct layout
< 1533589408 716747 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: some people say that future rust compilers should reorder fields in structs if that avoids padding fields. it is clear that the current docs allow rust to do this, at least for structs without a #[repr(...)] that excludes that, but I for one don't think it's a good idea to actually do that ever
< 1533589419 311476 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct A { int x, y; }; A a; int A::*p = &A::y;
< 1533589443 483660 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case you can use a.*p to get the y from an A
< 1533589469 750231 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: if all the fields in a struct are power-of-2 size they should be stored in reverse size order; perhaps that should be done in the source, though, rather than by the compiler
< 1533589488 934685 :Guest89349!~Guest8934@p352205-ipngn200402yamaguchi.yamaguchi.ocn.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533589495 399104 :Guest89349!~Guest8934@p352205-ipngn200402yamaguchi.yamaguchi.ocn.ne.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533589597 17344 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, and there's actually another guaranteed representation case: a "C-like enum" with #[repr(i32)] or almost any other integer type, which is basically one with all arms empty, what get from #[repr(i32)]  enum { X, Y, Z } or from #[repr(i32)] enum { X=2, Y=4, Z=3 }
< 1533589667 799994 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a totally different OT question, I want to ask it before I forget
< 1533589734 116975 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :today's bonus comic https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/laws-and-sausages says that Zach (the creator of SMBC) is launching a new popularized nonfiction webcomic. He teams up with an expert in the nonfiction topic the webcomic popularizes, and with an "artist".
< 1533589764 886536 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My question is, who draws the comics and what does the "artist" do and what the heck Zach does if the artist draws the comics and the expert gives the content?
< 1533589788 373367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some comics work by assembly from components
< 1533589797 630184 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, they'll have stock images of their characters, locations, etc.
< 1533589807 709062 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then to make the comic someone will copy-and-paste the images and add words
< 1533589817 209117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that tends to be a good way to save time if you have a lot of recurring characters
< 1533589821 108503 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why do they need an artist if Zach could handle all the art just fine so far.
< 1533589825 413217 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally you'll have some new art in a comic (but not always!)
< 1533589843 473356 :aphel!~aphel@110.53.202.76 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533589854 421575 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :the expert gives the expertise
< 1533589860 123604 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :zach would presumably mostly be the writer
< 1533589889 492481 :aphel!~aphel@110.53.202.76 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533589907 68187 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I had heard of a separate letterer or a separate colorist or a separate writer. separate writer might be a good guess for Zach actually, in which case the artist would do all the drawing.
< 1533589947 663200 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533589972 176307 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. http://lawsandsausagescomic.com/about says "Laws and Sausages is co-written by brothers Greg Weiner and Zach Weinersmith, and drawn by Dennis Culver."
< 1533589994 281382 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so both the expert and zach writes, or so they claim, and the artist draws.
< 1533590114 764764 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: on cursive: this https://www.reddit.com/r/russian/comments/69mcom/пиши_русские_буквы_правильно shows some connections (maybe not all form variations but it’s a good start nonetheless); as one can guess, in a connection the letter to the right decides form of the left letter, and it’s a simple rule: whether the right letter starts from down or up. On stroke order I’d approve https://i.pinimg.com/
< 1533590114 884728 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :originals/9f/9d/4a/9f9d4aa8e31eadcd2f4dfc44d23dd9f6.jpg
< 1533590120 180821 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533590134 299946 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the link should concatenate to https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9f/9d/4a/9f9d4aa8e31eadcd2f4dfc44d23dd9f6.jpg
< 1533590162 107958 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: thanks
< 1533590235 555426 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I could make a screencast on writing various things. Can’t say it would be 100% canonical, but all the same, people write differently
< 1533590241 938560 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :not today though
< 1533590282 276221 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it would be mouse-writing with all the consequences :D
< 1533590308 988515 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: thanks
< 1533590328 316521 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those two are good links
< 1533590375 834480 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :glad you liked them
< 1533590394 180704 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1533590401 286827 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is the left stroke of the en written? is that one you're supposed to write after the entire word, like accents and t's stroke, according to teachers, although I never do that?
< 1533590423 405170 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is the whole en written in one long unbroken line?
< 1533590474 829141 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, this looks like a version that's designed for writing almost everything in one unbroken line, except the j
< 1533590522 625139 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps not, because the o with a low connection after looks hard that way
< 1533590650 726868 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and similarly to the en, I wonder how you write the left side of the ju
< 1533590658 458252 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, this helps a lot
< 1533590754 81798 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Or is the whole en written in one long unbroken line? => this one. I’ll show tomorrow I swear
< 1533590787 392429 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can try to practice based on this. I'd probably have to write much slower than I usually write latin letter text for myself, but the latin letter text is barely readable (even for me) then
< 1533590791 376261 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least as I remember it
< 1533590828 446088 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: well, now I have to remind you. and if you do it, please publish it to somewhere that anyone can watch, like youtube.
< 1533590856 782354 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah if I write quite fast, the result is a mess. I was doing that at uni
< 1533590861 890599 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and make sure you aren't writing so fast that the video doesn't actually show all the details of the stroke order
< 1533590869 984162 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :youtube seems okay
< 1533590872 437237 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, the uni is where I learned too
< 1533590899 514574 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also some math notation besides latin letter text, and lots of abbreviations
< 1533590917 666277 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the first few years of university that is
< 1533590929 26658 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gets less heavy on writing later
< 1533590949 236380 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except on a few exams and competitions
< 1533590958 728113 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I don’t know if there a difference in math beside digits in cursive
< 1533590967 568180 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’ll include digits
< 1533590997 469613 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :and punctuation, but I’m unsure about quote marks
< 1533591021 759680 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was an oral exam where I wrote ten pages, then the teacher, who thought I was good at that subject, told me that if I write even one more line he'll kick me out, but then I placated him by saying that the first five pages are actually not even needed for the part I'm supposed to say so he can just ignore those
< 1533591036 9687 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I don't need that
< 1533591044 272276 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I won't write math in russian
< 1533591062 268174 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops I misread
< 1533591070 448673 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: you can still do it for other people if you want, but I already know how to write math in Hungarian or English, and don't need it in russian
< 1533591095 14802 :johnpark_pj!~johnpark_@176.205.139.152 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533591116 929136 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah then just digits. The rest is no doubt the same
< 1533591169 271357 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :well gtg
< 1533591183 565628 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye
< 1533591201 446895 :johnpark_pj!~johnpark_@176.205.139.152 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533591210 766761 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye!
< 1533591424 216156 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you see my SQLite extensions by now?
< 1533591489 704194 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no, we had other chat
< 1533591497 362977 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have it open in tabs
< 1533591509 46053 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1533591588 416743 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533591733 867114 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1533592378 749471 :Shinobi!~Shinobi@78.100.161.18 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533592379 936773 :Shinobi!~Shinobi@78.100.161.18 QUIT :K-Lined
< 1533592874 72541 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1533593575 796468 :khronosschoty17!~khronossc@bl5-1-10.dsl.telepac.pt JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533593647 58704 :khronosschoty17!~khronossc@bl5-1-10.dsl.telepac.pt QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533593687 189341 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533593850 10282 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533594153 991523 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1533594232 691271 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533594358 698660 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533594507 713271 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533594710 236354 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sorry, I won't be able to look at it this evening, it's too late and I found more interesting things
< 1533594713 13838 :wob_jonas!b03f1951@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.81 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1533594999 262699 :shikhin!shikhin@lambdaos.org QUIT :Changing host
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< 1533595794 565612 :tharkun28!~tharkun@58.44.155.155 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1533595795 54442 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1533596595 350070 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533596790 528490 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGIRL, dying...
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< 1533597525 402641 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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> 1533602523 388205 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Challenger514]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57258&oldid=57248 5* 03Challenger5 5* (+2) 10
< 1533602977 14420 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed PART :#esoteric
> 1533603427 221533 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Turing-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57259&oldid=57255 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10:(
> 1533603547 661444 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Turing-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57260&oldid=57259 5* 03A 5* (+66) 10Oh no! I have to paste it on the pastebin. :(
> 1533603662 549341 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Turing-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57261&oldid=57260 5* 03A 5* (+1) 10
< 1533603834 491971 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533605415 17177 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( some does, some deer, some female deer )
< 1533605582 377393 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :regarding dictionaries, i am finally getting around to italian songs and am somewhat annoyed that wiktionary's italian entries aren't fully accented (barring actual IPA, necessary to know stress and vowel quality)
< 1533605682 52984 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the russian ones are, presumably because it would be insane not to.  and greek has mandatory accents so its spelling -> pronunciation correspondence is actually better than italian (but much worse in the opposite direction)
< 1533605742 546914 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also the russian entries use a great automatic IPA module)
< 1533605748 672057 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not properly accented? blah
< 1533605757 116250 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless the accents are optional that should be fixed
< 1533605769 51157 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :alercah: they are optional, but you need them in dictionaries
< 1533605771 710240 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhh
< 1533605780 217600 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should probably be fixed though
< 1533605783 53195 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except at the very last syllable, where they're mandatory)
< 1533605789 515866 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe with like "unaccented form of <word>" as a redirect
< 1533605802 932494 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have search for several languages in english wiktionary as search keywords
< 1533605812 381694 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by which I mean main wiktionary search, but with #Language at the end
< 1533605854 198573 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :alercah: the russian entries use the unaccented form as the article name but still include accents on the entry itself
< 1533606122 145488 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: interesting
< 1533606133 474364 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :Irish entries use accents in the page name
< 1533606141 174155 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is for English wiktionary though
< 1533606249 789803 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for russian you pretty much have to do it that way because no one uses the accents outside dictionaries and textbooks. they cannot even get the new letter Ё to stick.
< 1533606289 659595 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(people use Е instead)
< 1533606382 647205 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1533606533 502835 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533606538 654210 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this entry has audio which sounds to me like the accented version would be mèttere, which is wrong https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mettere#Italian
< 1533606551 339499 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as i found by checking the italian wiktionary)
< 1533606585 167944 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the distinction between è and é isn't easy for a norwegian, we pretty much have them as allophones :P
< 1533606639 897236 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1533606663 666131 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :things that are allophones in your native language are always difficult to handle
< 1533606682 742809 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't really manage palatized/velarized distinction
< 1533606683 932839 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ó and ò are similar but perhaps not quite as bad
< 1533606706 89942 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :my dialect has palatal consonants so i got a bit of a head start.
< 1533606717 320527 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not all norwegian dialects do)
< 1533606798 479746 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1533606915 589883 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although we don't have any velarization, the dark english l helped there.
< 1533606951 86043 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think. assuming i actually do it right.
< 1533610791 231566 :K0HAX28!~K0HAX@112.22.15.237 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533610858 433335 :K0HAX28!~K0HAX@112.22.15.237 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533611136 700165 :Tabmow!~Tabmow@business-092-079-166-165.static.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533611159 562671 :Tabmow!~Tabmow@business-092-079-166-165.static.arcor-ip.net NICK :Guest95283
< 1533611368 253710 :Roedy28!~Roedy@202.92.201.94 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533611394 884290 :Roedy28!~Roedy@202.92.201.94 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1533611469 993745 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell wob_jonas <wob_jonas> there was an oral exam where I wrote ten pages [...] <-- i think you've got oral exams wrong hth
< 1533611470 11310 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1533611505 959718 :Guest95283!~Tabmow@business-092-079-166-165.static.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1533611565 409784 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless wob_jonas is the doctor
< 1533611865 147997 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you play Scrabble with memoryless wildcards?
< 1533612329 71385 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is wob_jonas a doctor?
< 1533612849 671688 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533613100 409733 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think he may have a doctorate?
< 1533613107 663784 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533613139 939636 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1533613323 824853 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not sure though.
< 1533613335 645835 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find an MsC thesis.
< 1533613407 92453 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1533615195 863097 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@ec2-52-79-98-81.ap-northeast-2.compute.amazonaws.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533615277 800555 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should add into bsdtar a command to specify the format when reading a archive, to override the autodetection. (It says there is a --format option but it can be used only when writing and not when reading.)
< 1533615278 884147 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@ec2-52-79-98-81.ap-northeast-2.compute.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533615349 334737 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think someone here asked if any Lisps used lambdas for control structures?
< 1533615359 432205 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factor is not a Lisp but I think qualifies for the latter part
< 1533615504 482188 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I originally installed bsdtar because it could read truncated ZIP archives, while 7-Zip and Info-Zip do not.)
< 1533616521 624152 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit
< 1533616587 207893 :K0HAX27!~K0HAX@232.233.13.160.dy.iij4u.or.jp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533616588 133349 :K0HAX27!~K0HAX@232.233.13.160.dy.iij4u.or.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533617404 684651 :ski777714!~ski7777@cpe-72-178-18-206.elp.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533617430 963747 :ski777714!~ski7777@cpe-72-178-18-206.elp.res.rr.com QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1533617566 760719 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wpemnouzpdjeqyix QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
> 1533618033 94816 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07--Unless14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57262&oldid=56450 5* 03A 5* (+6) 10
> 1533618092 144709 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07--Unless14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57263&oldid=57262 5* 03A 5* (-156) 10/* Tutorial */
< 1533618648 367517 :drakythe23!~drakythe@177.69.243.185 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533619018 989276 :drakythe23!~drakythe@177.69.243.185 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1533619138 14470 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533619425 865194 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1533622325 227006 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533622592 236444 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1533622948 639658 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533623247 633246 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1533624151 234846 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ekexmlbcswrlmedu QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1533624754 861542 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net QUIT :Quit: the creeping crawling chaos will return.
< 1533625477 169139 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
< 1533625513 71111 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533625809 204821 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1533625960 433824 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533626341 39413 :parduse!~parduse@unaffiliated/parduse JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533629770 11295 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533630587 53560 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1533631162 668337 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533631441 913258 :casdr3!~casdr@41.238.241.1 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533631450 397342 :casdr3!~casdr@41.238.241.1 QUIT :K-Lined
< 1533632614 338477 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533632793 443075 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "wiktionary's italian entries aren't fully accented", "the russian ones are" => in which language Wiktionary? you can check in both the french, the english, and the native one. maybe one of them has the accents or pronunciation.
< 1533632805 235896 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: also, how about the Lithuanian entries?
< 1533632810 509589 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages
< 1533632871 664360 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: mind you, in the English wiktionary, pronunciation is missing for most English words, and you know how bad the correspondance is there
< 1533632912 202148 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I'm at home, I can use my paper dictionaries to look up the pronunciation of many words
< 1533632934 212444 :GDiaX!~GDiaX@176.101.204.40 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533633022 736479 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"maybe with like "unaccented form of <word>" as a redirect" => no no. the unaccented form is the normal form, so it's the page title. but the accents are shown in the bold header of each separate unrelated etimology under the language and possibly etimology headings
< 1533633027 651430 :GDiaX!~GDiaX@176.101.204.40 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533633079 532504 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you find the unaccented form in normal text, so that's what has to be the page title, and in the rare case when you're reading a children's text, either you remove the accents or there's some bot that creates redirects from the accented form
< 1533633126 993242 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's like for English dictionaries that show hyphenation in the headwords. wiktionary could do that, but doesn't for some reason, and the page title would not include the hyphenation dots
< 1533634101 398494 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Hungarian dictionaries that mark compound words written without the hyphen with a vertical bar in the headword, because that is a concise way to tell the etymology for most of them, and for some compound words you would get the wrong hyphenation otherwise
< 1533635271 903209 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Is wob_jonas a doctor?" => no.
< 1533635403 78790 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :think he may have a doctorate?" => I don't. I started a PhD studies, but stopped, I didn't write a thesis and didn't take the final exams either
< 1533635415 85014 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also didn't defend a thesis, obviously
< 1533635441 949727 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did defend the MsC-equivalent thesis and got the MsC-equivalent degree
< 1533635482 642814 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I think someone here asked if any Lisps used lambdas for control structures?" => scheme does, together with a builtin if control structure
< 1533635977 492768 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1533636128 664253 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533636142 663597 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533636220 307438 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1533639968 993387 :Shnaw0!~Shnaw@95-30-101-218.broadband.corbina.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533639988 682023 :Shnaw0!~Shnaw@95-30-101-218.broadband.corbina.ru QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533640980 203815 :walle303!~walle303@185.224.8.50 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533640999 743269 :walle303!~walle303@185.224.8.50 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533641244 462600 :jacob278!~jacob24@110.146.149.109 JOIN :#esoteric
> 1533641260 125368 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Functional()14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57264&oldid=57086 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (-35) 10Updated language description
< 1533641637 721849 :jacob278!~jacob24@110.146.149.109 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
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< 1533642982 266101 :Pugabyte14!~Pugabyte@95.78.5.84 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533643090 170443 :Pugabyte14!~Pugabyte@95.78.5.84 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533644124 517321 :jacob278!~jacob24@110.146.149.109 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1533646143 646307 :atriq!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533646173 300077 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org QUIT :Disconnected by services
< 1533646177 712400 :atriq!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 NICK :Taneb
< 1533646247 405725 :nchambers!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers QUIT :Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish!
< 1533646248 791658 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-rhuagriqwmfsvoko QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1533646249 10966 :ineiros!ineiros@kapsi.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1533646249 279577 :heroux_!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-pnafyupohykudtvt NICK :heroux
< 1533646261 998637 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1533646264 569724 :ineiros!ineiros@kapsi.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533646273 73910 :heroux_!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-nkcufugetzortvkc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533646319 272402 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533646356 398999 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com QUIT :Changing host
< 1533646356 399073 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533646486 693591 :uplime!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers JOIN :#esoteric
> 1533646550 151682 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Noida14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=57265 5* 03Saka 5* (+3007) 10Created page with "Noida is an esolang created by [[User:Saka]]. It is designed to be simple and easy to write an interpreter for.  Noida is short for "No idea" because I didn't know what to nam..."
< 1533647139 552192 :ome!~ome@177-104-242-048.provecom.com.br JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533647339 265891 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533647435 418752 :ome!~ome@177-104-242-048.provecom.com.br QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533648675 332586 :Grimnir16!~Grimnir@177.53.137.3 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533648848 408692 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :
< 1533648957 711852 :Grimnir16!~Grimnir@177.53.137.3 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
> 1533649494 432589 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Saka14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57266&oldid=56201 5* 03Saka 5* (+12) 10/* My Languages */
< 1533649596 661193 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533650159 214922 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533651084 216070 :parduse!~parduse@unaffiliated/parduse QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1533651495 654861 :Guest32737!~HepaR@118.136.44.38 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533651566 695933 :Guest32737!~HepaR@118.136.44.38 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533652910 180625 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533652934 518847 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1133
< 1533652935 731020 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1133: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
< 1533652959 537923 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who was the one who guessed there'd be an olist yesterday? You were wrong. But there is one today.
< 1533652993 560266 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: oh hey I’m almost done
< 1533653012 919665 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not. I'm still at work
< 1533653020 592657 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and getting back to work in a moment
< 1533653023 935413 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :people mess my concentration however
< 1533653056 825280 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :no problem, I still will be editing the video after it’s recorded
< 1533653079 167700 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you may watch it any time
< 1533653114 816206 :evilman_work17!~evilman_w@59.86.208.132 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533653156 765221 :evilman_work17!~evilman_w@59.86.208.132 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533654109 69475 :thomas0!~thomas@113.239.183.188 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533654199 436469 :thomas0!~thomas@113.239.183.188 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1533655250 62998 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1533655601 706625 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533657156 516339 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533657167 676714 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :carl hewitt is a crank, change my view.
< 1533658113 480119 :CGML2!~CGML2@183.99.46.18 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533658177 54377 :CGML2!~CGML2@183.99.46.18 QUIT :Killed (Unit193 (Spam is not permitted on freenode.))
< 1533658206 164510 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? you're correct
< 1533658206 280553 :WizJin!~WizJin@181.208.108.247 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533658272 375071 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :the initial stuff on actors was okay but now he's in to this weird DirectLogic stuff where he posts cryptic ms word documents on arxiv and responds to questions like a fortune cookie
< 1533658294 352046 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Types are fundamental to computation. Lucky numbers 7, 11, 23."
< 1533658313 401315 :WizJin!~WizJin@181.208.108.247 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533658366 181112 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh he went way overboard with actors. his original paper reads like a seriously unhinged person's monologue, nothing of substance, and what's more he's now claiming that actors are more powerful, computationally, than turing machines.
< 1533658389 866003 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah the real number stuff, due to unbounded nondeterminism i think?
< 1533658434 617546 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but he fails to even produce a proof...
< 1533658490 646681 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not even a fan of actors these days, they are basically a form of callbacks
< 1533658520 482157 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was at least one person who claimed to understand hewitt's posts on lambda the ultimate but he hasn't been around in a while
< 1533658546 802003 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like them to sit down and explain to me what the fuck he's on about to be honest.
< 1533658552 613713 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just want to see a simple directlogic interpreter
< 1533658565 715170 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read the original paper, in all its scanned-in low-res glory, and it was a mess.
< 1533658569 494128 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :no actual formalisms.
< 1533658581 914654 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't seen DirectLogic, I'll look that up.
< 1533658612 270160 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's connected to his new ActorScript stuff, supposedly some kind of "inconsistency robust" logic
< 1533658633 502978 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :how in the world is he going to handle that.
< 1533658634 646797 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :ActorScript itself is not very well defined
< 1533658648 705061 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he seems to introduce a new keyword to handle anything that comes up
< 1533658654 340755 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on what you can see in the arxiv docs
< 1533658678 738637 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :if he really had a straightforward idea he could write an interpreter, however naive and slow and bad, just to demonstrate it
< 1533658682 859601 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :but all he does is write ms word docs
< 1533658696 267385 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have "inconsistency robust" logic, it's called computation.
< 1533658719 699511 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hell is he on about..
< 1533658736 494828 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533658747 520764 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.subjectcentric.com/posts/carl_hewitt_s_direct_logic__inconsistency_tolerant_reasoning_and_subject-centric_computing/ I found this on Direct Logic.
< 1533658828 380121 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it means we have arguments for both P and ~P" okay, while that says nothing about the truth value of the proposition, what in the world can you say with that formula.
< 1533658860 189473 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, paraconsistent logic is a thing
< 1533658863 966829 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :hewitt didn't invent that
< 1533658881 935667 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are ways of dealing with knowledge bases that contain both `P` and `not P`
< 1533658891 538960 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is, hewitt doesn't really describe how his works
< 1533658893 102063 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but is that really all direct logic is.
< 1533658906 590440 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not clear what direct logic is, because it makes all sorts of grandiose claims
< 1533658916 92278 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, he claims to get around goedel's incompleteness theorems
< 1533658925 409847 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :he claims the second one is actually incorrect
< 1533658929 952214 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that would be a fuckin' sight.
< 1533658964 152710 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc he claims direct logic is both sound and complete and capable of expressing properties of real numbers
< 1533658968 260050 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533658975 93084 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :got any links to some of the more "focused" papers he's published?
< 1533658978 644224 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1533658979 987195 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, should I say, uploaded.
< 1533658980 87542 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1533658984 233701 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmao.
< 1533659000 569742 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of the stuff is focused, that's what i've been getting at
< 1533659009 96296 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :if he could just sit down and talk normally it could be really interesting, even if he's wrong
< 1533659018 459873 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :people have made grandiose claims and been wrong before, i don't hold that against them
< 1533659025 355946 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i do dislike is being so vague about it in the process
< 1533659055 267541 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a tease, he claims to have this great idea which is almost certainly wrong but still interesting, but he'll never actually describe it to you
< 1533659058 312381 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an attempt to delay the discovery that he's full of shit.
< 1533659073 10837 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :he apparently has quite the cult of personality.
< 1533659132 615114 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://arxiv.org/abs/0812.4852 I'm going in.
< 1533659215 475807 :grubles10!~grubles@node-j88.pool-101-108.dynamic.totbb.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533659307 751332 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, he's stated the abstract 4 times.
< 1533659322 409024 :grubles10!~grubles@node-j88.pool-101-108.dynamic.totbb.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533659344 490945 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :my god there's more quotes than self-authored material.
< 1533659372 307573 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533659390 147668 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :dave ackley has more coherence than this guy.
< 1533659452 188214 :SakiiR25!~SakiiR@171.234.207.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533659488 9671 :SakiiR25!~SakiiR@171.234.207.208 QUIT :K-Lined
< 1533659809 340411 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, so he walked through how to derive inconsistency using a catch-22. he then shows the same derivations in almost exactly the same notation (only THIS TIME he's writing `catch-22` on everything) with little to no changes, other than he doesn't discard the contradiction.
< 1533659854 32741 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's restated the abstract another 10 times.
< 1533660178 708253 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :35 pages down, and I wish I was kidding but these pages are so short.
< 1533660245 12413 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a god damn quote on every page.
< 1533660329 615873 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay the bibliography is half as long as the paper, and now we're at the appendix. "Details of Direct Logic".
< 1533660356 471434 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533660420 667939 :Andre483!~Andre483@59.86.208.132 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533660450 971059 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you can't parse real numbers." thank you, carl, I didn't know that.
< 1533660495 712321 :Andre483!~Andre483@59.86.208.132 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1533660535 652260 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1533660540 52303 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :he appears to be constructing some kind of meta-logic that actually differentiates between different kinds of logical objects. you can reason over types, booleans, natural numbers, propositions, proofs, and theories.. okay, that's higher-order logic.
< 1533660569 983112 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot sentences in there.
< 1533660629 516709 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning you can reason about the actual formulas, the string forms of said formulas, and some indirect references to other formulas.
< 1533660648 829008 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :this man likes his unicode.
< 1533660677 319912 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are seperate inference rules for the different types.
< 1533660850 589935 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a few pages later, there's nothing actually addressing the concept of inconsistency.
< 1533660980 698026 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :he strikes me as a sort of George Spencer Brown figure.
< 1533661065 338682 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkapastel: you were right, that was incredibly... unhinged. I've seen crank mathematics (George Spencer Brown, Hofstader, the time cube guy lmao) but I never expected it to come from a "well-cited" source like Hewitt.
< 1533661217 30972 :ksft25!~ksft@37.0.33.54 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533661334 604672 :ksft25!~ksft@37.0.33.54 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533661726 692507 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533662618 466678 :Guest79923!~VoidWhisp@187.170.37.125 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533662791 782525 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: https://youtu.be/cYOqMf0xw4c
< 1533662832 360102 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :an imperfection-rich thing about cursive
< 1533662853 540735 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope it’s more useful than harmful :D
< 1533664425 226816 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533664425 773539 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a QUIT :Changing host
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< 1533664630 627448 :zz_ka6sox!~zz_ka6sox@wf-171-99-205-87.revip9.asianet.co.th JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533665508 643679 :jelly29!~jelly@211.197.12.79 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
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< 1533667651 491039 :steven0!~steven@111.75.100.187 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
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> 1533668853 460321 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57267&oldid=57093 5* 03DMC 5* (+35) 10
> 1533669374 402732 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Grawlix14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57268&oldid=54961 5* 03DMC 5* (+36) 10/* Examples */
> 1533669641 463892 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Cmax521 5*  10New user account
< 1533669661 410187 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533669774 246246 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: "that actors are more powerful, computationally, than turing machines." => I hope it's not just a cheap marketing shot where he later proves that they're actually equivalent to turing machines with a random source
< 1533669803 61906 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :becuse these days we tend to think those are probably equivalent
< 1533669908 261923 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkapastel: "introduce a new keyword to handle anything that comes up" => ugly
> 1533669910 798431 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57269&oldid=57135 5* 03Cmax521 5* (+142) 10/* Introductions */
< 1533669954 719149 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkapastel: "if he really had a straightforward idea he could write an interpreter, however naive and slow and bad, just to demonstrate it / but all he does is write ms word docs" => so there's no interpreter, not even a partial one?
< 1533669955 694154 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow
< 1533669992 592773 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah there's nothing of substance in anything he writes.
< 1533670017 328476 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: his argument is "unbounded determinism" yields hypercomputation.
< 1533670021 202310 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkapastel: "for example, he claims to get around goedel's incompleteness theorems / he claims the second one is actually incorrect" => ah, it's getting worse
< 1533670053 392991 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533670057 355551 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: doesn't that mean that it's impossible to interpret on a turing-machine or subset then?
< 1533670064 784663 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1533670068 805452 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :great
< 1533670071 557993 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is total bullshit.
< 1533670073 960469 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's why he doesn't have an interpreter
< 1533670084 401163 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least that part is consistent
< 1533670106 156523 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because our machines are LBMs doesn't stop us from simulating TMs.
< 1533670114 908921 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that should be easy for him...
< 1533670126 56205 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's just a hack.
< 1533670131 457534 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"if he could just sit down and talk normally it could be really interesting" => I have a better idea, we could just tell him some good references to read first instead, in his free time
< 1533670139 186235 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what languages does he speak?
< 1533670143 51785 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :english.
< 1533670146 636539 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe he can be educated if he gets good books
< 1533670148 309899 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only?
< 1533670166 656041 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to be.
< 1533670176 240397 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's also vehemently active on Wikipedia to preserve his own self-image.
< 1533670223 478949 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"what i do dislike is being so vague about it in the process" => yes, so let's just ignore what he says and send him to read books
< 1533670261 733492 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"he's also vehemently active on Wikipedia to preserve his own self-image." => does he just make an autobiography page with no references, or does he also add reasonable references, like articles accepted by respected journals or something?
< 1533670274 287070 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3ACarl_Hewitt%2FArchive_2
< 1533670281 863024 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'd ask which language of wikipedia, but if he only reads English, then it's sort of obvious
< 1533670294 710456 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Carl_Hewitt
< 1533670305 886966 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, currently deleted. good
< 1533670343 105490 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's such a crank..
< 1533670361 296952 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's not worth worrying about, at least as an esolanger, since the wikipedians already see the problem and delete his autobio article. I don't care if he writes some angry messages, people are good enough to ignore those.
< 1533670384 981907 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's uploaded to arxiv too.
< 1533670388 922581 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd only have to worry if he managed to get his autobiography page contain the inflated claims and remain there.
< 1533670390 333128 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you read back I went over his paper.
< 1533670414 254347 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to say it was a brief cursory reading but there wasn't much in there. the bibliography was half of it.
< 1533670432 839153 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the real challenge for carl hewitt is to find a page that doesn't have a quote from somebody else on it.
< 1533670438 91671 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: meh, so what. everyone knows arxiv can contain preprints, and that you can change the metadata later to indicate which journal has accepted the article, with a full reference, that people can then check in the journal
< 1533670475 415252 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://arxiv.org/abs/0812.4852 I want you to read this.
< 1533670480 291445 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if he uploads some nonsense to arxiv, I wouldn't worry about. if he spams arxiv, arxiv probably has a way to deal with it
< 1533670486 667409 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: I really don't have the time, sorry
< 1533670492 113068 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can read the abstract
< 1533670511 437835 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohoho, if you can find the time, read it. it's worth your while.
< 1533670514 406215 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus, that's not an abstract for an article. what's this, a full book?
< 1533670525 68123 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 104 pages of pure unadulterated bullshit.
< 1533670537 185748 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: certainly not today for the 104 pages. and I don't think I will ever find the time for that, sorry.
< 1533670546 273023 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's okay. half of them are the bibliography.
< 1533670546 898779 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, 102 revisions so far
< 1533670581 278717 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in reality, a third of them are. the other third are the actual paper, which is mostly quotes, and the appendices, which are also mostly quotes.)
< 1533670672 718275 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I'd love to get a friggin' diff because I can't imagine anything of substance was changed.
< 1533670679 550053 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: great, the abstract really seems to say that his model is uncomputable
< 1533670739 535668 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: it's PDF-only, so diffing will almost certainly be difficult
< 1533670747 17942 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he doesn't upload whatever was the source of the PDF
< 1533670751 194186 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.
< 1533670783 544524 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"my god there's more quotes than self-authored material." => wow
< 1533670844 25491 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"okay the bibliography is half as long as the paper" => that happens, but for a 104 page long paper it's unusual. but he has to source all those quotes he has, right?
< 1533670867 207491 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's my point.
< 1533670879 925704 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the number of quotes is equal to the number of bibliography entries...
< 1533670937 263492 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my record, out of a total of 4 scientific articles, not counting conference procedings and conference slides (for they usually don't have a full bibliography) is
< 1533671007 83985 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an article with 53 references on 4 pages, plus 11 pages of body, plus a page for abstract and a title page. this is in the preprint, the journal's version has less whitespace around the title I think.
< 1533671075 729566 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm too lazy to check the journal final version, but I think it also has close to 53 bibliographic references
< 1533671096 22799 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's formatted differently so the page numbers are entirely different
< 1533671137 150366 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a journal that I think exists printed, or at least is formatted as if it existed printed, so the formatting is compact with a small page and narrow margins and all that stuff
< 1533671200 115661 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall, but I think they even do that age old nonsense where they forcibly put the paper author names as initial plus surname format, because THAT would take up too much space in a mathematical paper
< 1533671220 81395 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this isn't a physics/biology journal with 100+ member teams sending in articles)
< 1533671230 994493 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and might reformat the bibliography too, I dunno
< 1533671237 639154 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some journals are so backwards
< 1533671238 312844 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The argument that actors are more powerful than non-deterministic Turing machines is quite ridiculous to me. (I see no useful difference between a machine that is guaranteed to terminate but can take an arbitrary long time for that, and a machine that terminates with probability 1)
< 1533671255 279365 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might be mixing it up with another journal
< 1533671314 400098 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: there is probably no computational difference for decision problems (but not for problems that require a random output obviously), except possibly a polynomial overhead, but maths is very far from being able to prove that,
< 1533671340 479764 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like a major result that might take quarter as much time or twice as much time as P!=NP from now
< 1533671359 54244 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's just a guess
< 1533671408 562453 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mathematics self proves its own consistency." -- assuming completeness.
< 1533671436 341568 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like hilbert, but on meth.
< 1533671445 750100 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I've seen crank mathematics (George Spencer Brown, Hofstader, the time cube guy lmao)" => wait what?
< 1533671463 151003 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you take issue with with that statement.
< 1533671471 722768 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hofstadter barely wrote any crank mathematics, most of his book is fiction, and the maths part is not perfect but not crank either;
< 1533671492 505739 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I regard him as a crank because like Hewitt he fails to produce anything of actual value.
< 1533671503 152003 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the time cube guy is a crank but I don't think he has any mathematics on his page, though I haven't read the whole page I admit;
< 1533671518 543855 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: you should give some credit to being substantially correct
< 1533671519 949892 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :a post on HN summarized my feelings on the book.
< 1533671529 645757 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and at least don't put Hofstadter next to the time cube guy without at least a semicolon, that's insulting Hofstadter
< 1533671540 781918 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://blog.infinitenegativeutility.com/2018/7/why-i-dont-love-godel-escher-bach
< 1533671558 330158 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: I'm not saying you should love the book. you can hate it. but it's not crank mathematics.
< 1533671563 658164 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can hate it for lots of other reasons
< 1533671575 445026 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest reading that if you want a synonymous opinion.
< 1533671604 493784 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he might have crank philosophy, and most useless but mostly correct mathematics, and fiction, in the same book
< 1533671637 424500 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I classify him as a crank because he doesn't bring anything of merit to the table, and what explanations he tries to give fall short of actually conveying anything useful.
< 1533671656 964184 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want crank mathematics, I can give better examples. t'Hooft's physics stuff, Wolfram's physics stuff, both based on bad mathematics and physics
< 1533671660 666120 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you not count physics?
< 1533671665 865731 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohoho I count physics.
< 1533671670 138505 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :wolfram's a nut.
< 1533671672 758938 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: yes, he might be a crank, but not crank mathematics
< 1533671684 498094 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: he has crank stuff and useless mathematics in the same book
< 1533671698 626952 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fiction that some of us actually find enjoyable
< 1533671703 876388 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :look, let me explain something
< 1533671720 594288 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised you take such offense.
< 1533671752 431318 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some universities, a small amount of people graduate but the university people knows that he's dangerous if he gets out in the outer world. this happens most often in medical university, but can happen in maths too.
< 1533671763 961992 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not going to really change my view on hofstader.
< 1533671789 389226 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in those cases, a good solution is to convince the guy to remain as a professor or researcher in the university or some other uni or research place, and pay him for not doing real world work.
< 1533671799 656501 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, I know of the "my supervisor's keeper" clause. ;)
< 1533671825 400966 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the students and professors in the university quickly recognize that he's a crank professor, and take his lectures as a joke.
< 1533671829 154913 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :the time cube guy does lots of math
< 1533671844 13392 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of it is logical or makes any sense, but apparently he thought there was a proof in there?
< 1533671852 244875 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not dangerous, because the students in the university aren't harmed much by having a useless class the don't attend and get an easy A
< 1533671855 35429 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :listen, you're just not living in 5D.
< 1533671875 923079 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think "crank" is the wrong term, which I would like to reserve for people who invent their own crazy theories.
< 1533671885 377154 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :starting to think so too.
< 1533671894 407413 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, if the same person got out in the real world to patients, he would damage the health of many of his patients before the patient catches on that he's a bad doctor. some patient catches on, but some don't, or not quickly enough.
< 1533671898 358047 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it just feels like the right term.
< 1533671926 981313 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this system doesn't catch everyone, and there are still bad doctors out there for various reasons, but some doctors are stopped this way.
< 1533671941 482644 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're paid from state tuition, like the crank doctor would be payed, so it's all the same.
< 1533671966 340232 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's the overarching point tho.
< 1533671968 508238 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: what's the 5D about? time cube?
< 1533671972 844715 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah lmao.
< 1533671977 469486 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :was in response to Hooloovo0.
< 1533671991 203563 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but I also claimed that he doesn't do maths
< 1533671993 896163 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://web.archive.org/web/20070927220333/http://www.lib.hcu.edu.tw/journal/files/CAS/CAS0206.pdf
< 1533671993 961794 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'm wrong
< 1533672006 184273 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a kind of weird read
< 1533672013 235055 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't recognize any of what he did as maths, but maybe I'm not imaginative or haven't read enough crank math
< 1533672025 498685 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't seem to be intended as math to my eyes
< 1533672034 901644 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even as much as Wolfram's
< 1533672044 855202 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: And just to be clear and can totally understand hating his book(s)... I'm not sure I could read GEB these days. I liked it as a late teenager.
< 1533672053 324685 :woodface!~woodface@190.50.231.120 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533672091 587602 :woodface!~woodface@190.50.231.120 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1533672097 591218 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Hofstader shouldn't be classified as a crank.
< 1533672104 998032 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I just saw it as all meaningless statements that are trying to motivate people to do something, that is, politics, although a rather bad attempt at that
< 1533672111 800768 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :just somebody who really shouldn't be that notable.
< 1533672112 937475 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :fake celebrity, I guess?
< 1533672144 565336 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when a politician talks about global warming and what he wants to do about it, I don't think he's talking physics. I take it as talking politics, with physics jargon because that's what politicians do if it helps them.
< 1533672194 937499 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my default is that politics talk is mostly meaningless, and I have to leave it to politologists to read everything and figure out what the guy will actually do,
< 1533672241 663906 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then either blog about that in a meaningful way, without the political talk nonsense, like saying that he believes if this politician is elected, he'll build more nuclear power plants, or whatever
< 1533672288 300552 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then he blogs about it, or publishes in politology journals if he feels like he needs grants, and tells it to journalists who generally distort the whole thing and tell it on news websites
< 1533672306 365198 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course he can be factually wrong about his predictions, even consistently if he's a bad politologist
< 1533672333 947091 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm gonna be honest, I've only skimmed the time cube guy's page.
< 1533672336 244353 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but so what? my aim isn't to become a better politologist than the ones I can read if I really want to know who to elect or when to leave the country
< 1533672358 80688 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: some years ago I read a few pages (it's text with huge font, mind you)
< 1533672366 746492 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think I actually zoomed it out, rare with a webpage)
< 1533672381 62452 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's still a copy linked from wikipedia if you want
< 1533672385 629987 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or an extract in the wisdome
< 1533672392 1695 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? time cube
< 1533672392 498369 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmao, I've had my fill of crank shit today.
< 1533672393 217988 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :EARTH HAS 4 CORNER SIMULTANEOUS 4-DAY TIME CUBE IN ONLY 24 HOUR ROTATION. 4 CORNER DAYS, CUBES 4 QUAD EARTH. Bible A Lie & Word Is Lies. Navel Connects 4 Corner 4s. God Is Born Of A Mother - She Left Belly B. Signature. Your dirty lying teachers use only the midnight to midnight 1 day (ignoring 3 other days) Time to not foul (already wrong) bible time. Lie that corrupts earth you educated stupid fools.
< 1533672416 169509 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, I wrote that, so it could be biased to what I want to imply about him
< 1533672419 82213 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a shirt that says "Educated Stupid".
< 1533672449 760721 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, he's very bad even as a politician, and I don't think he managed to achieve anything other than making a meme
< 1533672453 161762 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote lambda.cube
< 1533672453 383147 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :No quotes match. Maybe you made a typo?
< 1533672482 78387 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think he got any of what he actually asks people to do in that, like killing your teachers or whatever it was
< 1533672491 998259 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that wasn't it
< 1533672493 218457 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um
< 1533672493 484624 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :like I said, you just need to step back into the fifth dimension.
< 1533672502 152503 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :all will make sense when things stop making sense.
< 1533672557 397209 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, there are science fantasy films about the fifth dimension. there's even a really good one: the Phineas and Ferb movie (I'm not sure about its title)
< 1533672565 453789 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can look up the title if you care
< 1533672567 782408 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a joke.
< 1533672570 640868 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you'll find it anyway
< 1533672575 548648 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, but since it's a good film
< 1533672577 317968 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only problem is
< 1533672594 747140 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a better film if you watch enough of the show first to know the general setting and characters
< 1533672606 2908 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not a film I recommend watching first if you haven't yet watched the show
< 1533672621 138714 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you have watched the show, even just like half a season of it, any random half a season, then it's good
< 1533672664 240157 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, you have to know who all the main characters are and their basic relationships, because in the film there isn't enough introduction and everything changes because of a catastrophe they have to fix
< 1533672674 328856 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it works MUCH better if you already know the original situation
< 1533672691 442359 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear Carl, just adding the modifier "Inconsistency-robust" to the names of the elements of a more or less standard sequent calculus does not make it paraconsistent. In particular, you have enough rules to prove  p /\ -p |- q /\ -q.
< 1533672693 568102 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the TV series is good too, although not everyone is a target audience
< 1533672695 450939 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has read enough.

< 1533672709 440252 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: that's exactly the conclusion I came to.
< 1533672722 412853 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's nothing of substance..
< 1533672765 617496 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a show that doesn't take itself seriously, with not much logical consistency and much more emphasis on the character's motivations, and then just not caring if what they do makes sense even in a fantasy world,
< 1533672808 700413 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like Harry Potter or Star Wars, but much less serious time and much more jokes and whole episodes played for fun, while the character motivations are still consistent (except when they're mind-controlled etc)
< 1533672843 979713 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you like those types of media, then I recommen Phineas & Ferb
< 1533672872 337048 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm saying this in the wrong place
< 1533672886 434036 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me quickly copy-paste it to another forum where more people listen
< 1533672922 792843 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I should only copy it and make a blog post from it to its blog
< 1533672935 845680 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some day
< 1533673096 734647 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: Actually I might still enjoy GEB. I just have to skip the formal parts :P
< 1533673132 761715 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The perfect record player plot was cute.
< 1533673144 783077 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: the problem is I have an implicit assumption going in: that all the romance talk is going to lead up to an eventual climax: some actual fucking.
< 1533673150 289105 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Was it?
< 1533673163 744948 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it ... resonated with me.
< 1533673166 459737 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about a record player that has two disassembly components, where each one can disassemble the other one?
< 1533673178 356634 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I'll read the GEB review, sorry. I've read it, I like it, and since I'm a mathematician I think I did realize that the mathematics part doesn't add anything I didn't know from better sources, and the DNA stuff was pure useless nonsense.
< 1533673180 84363 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I felt like there were all sorts of reasonable objections that weren't raised.
< 1533673194 430050 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :hofstader just kinda tells you the shit he's gonna do you, and then dines-and-dashes.
< 1533673229 250945 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: there is a climax. it's not fucking, and it's not anything you learn about science. it's a climax in the fiction parts, and a decent one at that.
< 1533673238 280523 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: thank you. the point of an analogy is to draw direct comparisons as a gateway to knowledge.
< 1533673248 218686 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not, like, what you get from your favourite fiction author, but still a decent one.
< 1533673253 731895 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? quine
< 1533673254 807446 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`? quine
< 1533673262 89700 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote LAMBDA
< 1533673262 852989 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :102) <Mathnerd314> Gregor-P: I don't think lambda calculus is powerful enough \ 331) [after a long string of Lymia getting lambdabot to spit out huge, meaningless type signatures] <Lymia> I need to learn more Haskell...  <CakeProphet> ..I need to get op privs. \ 409) <monqy> rest in peace lambdabot????  <ais523> monqy: it'll probably be back later  <monqy> nap in peace \ 494) <CakeProphet> monqy: help how do I use lambdabot to send messages to people. [...
< 1533673266 989833 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: if I wanted fiction I'd read fiction, not something masking itself as nonfiction.
< 1533673267 157753 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1533673304 102216 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you read it with the expectation that it will be like Smullyan's books, that teach you some actual mathematics in the climax, then it's a flop
< 1533673309 236323 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that shouldn't be your expectation
< 1533673326 727386 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :what should be my expectation of a book that tells me it's about the real world.
< 1533673331 426422 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's not Smullyan, he's just a long-time friend
< 1533673345 447003 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: well, obviously it depends
< 1533673346 584064 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way RIP Smullyan, I'll be missing you
< 1533673368 255928 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, you can defend this all you want, it's not going to change the fact that it shouldn't be held up on a pedestal like it currently is.
< 1533673380 967054 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: come on, half of it was dialogs that are obviously fantastic fiction. why'd you read it as non-fiction? was it the Smullyan expectation?
< 1533673397 476451 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you seriously expect that there's anyone else who's as good as Smullyan in the exact same genre?
< 1533673411 55743 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't Smullyan's, you know, reputation get to you?
< 1533673414 957468 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's that dialogues are intended to expound on something.
< 1533673420 337248 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you read it with that expectation, I'm sorry
< 1533673427 678480 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I can understand you didn't like it
< 1533673445 549607 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're used as an investigative tool. and I don't feel Hofstader gave me any sort of conclusion.
< 1533673450 657358 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: no, they were fun. that's how I read most fiction books too. it's rare that I can learn something from them.
< 1533673452 206818 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than talking lavishly about... a lot of nothing.
< 1533673463 116129 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :listen, you're trying to defend a book you like, I get that.
< 1533673478 33382 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not going to change what I've said or what I will say lmao.
< 1533673491 469205 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry if you took offense to what I've been saying.
< 1533673506 289973 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's even clearly fiction books that do have a message (or Aesop if you want) but the message is one I don't like, yet I read the fiction book and actually enjoyed it, because I enjoyed the style and characters and decent writing, and ignored the message
< 1533673599 694925 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :my final thoughts are that you can't take a book parading itself as nonfiction and judge it as a work of fiction in order to praise what you think are good aspects about it in order to avoid negative judgements.
< 1533673611 656692 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :on that, afk.
< 1533673620 695879 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the specific book that was most like that is Julie Bertagna, <i>Exodus</i>
< 1533673682 651474 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you're not going to change what I've said or what I will say lmao" => ok, if you don't want to talk about it, I can stop. but sometimes, when I talk on the internet with people I actually know about works that one of us enjoyed more than the other,
< 1533673716 228195 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we tell what we liked and what we didn't, the end result is that I get to enjoy the work better, especially if I then re-read or rewatch the same work with the conversation in mind.
< 1533673731 176492 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't always work, because sometimes the work still doesn't work for me (sorry for the pun)
< 1533673756 195590 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do this a lot for TV series episodes of My Little Pony: FIM, but I think it works for other fiction too, which is why I'm trying
< 1533673762 132260 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't want to listen, then I can stop
< 1533673776 805331 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: ?
< 1533673832 661097 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think it paraded itself as pop nonfiction at worst, and I already knew not to expect much from pop nonfiction by then,
< 1533673878 36873 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because when I was young, I read a lot of children's pop nonfiction books, and I liked them, but when I grew up and learned about the world, I realized that most of those pop nonfiction books were actually really bad, if you take them at face value
< 1533673896 185346 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most primary school textbooks also are, by the way
< 1533673905 101212 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for similar reasons
< 1533674347 139415 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2
< 1533675282 19513 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1533675725 957076 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533675852 323855 :bmos!~bmos@c-68-83-58-226.hsd1.nj.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533675892 184224 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533676108 828995 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: oh you’ve watched P & F too
< 1533676111 878053 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533676137 327244 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: most of it
< 1533676143 686980 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all episodes
< 1533676152 289266 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm missing some mostly from the later seasons
< 1533676170 465154 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are a lot of good episodes I've watched three or more times
< 1533676215 924178 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: what does "too" mean? have you watched P & F? or is it that I watched practically all MLP and most of P & F too?
< 1533676596 475019 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW have anybody watched my vid?
< 1533676727 187701 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: have you watched P & F? => this one
< 1533676955 7035 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I haven't seen the link
< 1533676960 582940 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you please post the link again?
< 1533676964 889940 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :also on ways of treating art: I had gained much when I started not to skip parts that seem boring. With good authors, it really pays later, I’d come to thing
< 1533676985 327250 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I appreciate you training handwriting by the way. we need more online lectures on that.
< 1533676990 232193 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :absoutely can, here it is: https://youtu.be/cYOqMf0xw4c
< 1533677017 903451 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I know. I love typography and calligraphy, both restricted to the recent European subset
< 1533677024 568696 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you, but you better watch it first, I’m afraid it’s too messy
< 1533677059 371740 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, I'm thanking the attempt in first place. if you fail, it might still push others to make a better video if I tell them that this is the best you could get.
< 1533677128 894507 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me point to this great example of calligraphy (and also great drawing) from 1898 by Zichy Mihály: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Illustrations_to_J%C3%A1nos_Arany%27s_ballads_by_Mih%C3%A1ly_Zichy
< 1533677155 525586 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can also buy it on dead tree if you're in Hungary)
< 1533677188 65480 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: oh, I have a friend who for some time does calligraphy as a hobby, it’s interesting, and he even promised to write a page of text from Summa Logicae somewhere in the future :)
< 1533677215 243032 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I'll watch it now. can I give commentary as the video goes, or should I hold it all until the end?
< 1533677239 473030 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Summa Logicae => in what language is that?
< 1533677286 723311 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not interested in learning calligraphy myself anymore, I am more interested in doing typography myself, it's just that I appreciate both
< 1533677300 10184 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want to learn the basics of handwriting in Russian for the reasons I had told you
< 1533677322 197878 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know the basics of Hungarian handwriting
< 1533677367 696702 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: let me point to this great example of calligraphy (and also great drawing) from 1898 by Zichy Mihály => ah, thanks! Really appeals to the eyes, and I haven’t seen this style before. I’ll show these to my friend
< 1533677385 624746 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll watch it now. can I give commentary as the video goes, or should I hold it all until the end? => as you wish
< 1533677431 770733 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: is it the calligraphy or the drawing you like? if the drawing, you can find more examples of his drawing, because his works (or at least most of them) are in public domain now, and many of them are available online
< 1533677448 209761 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know of any other pieces of calligraphy he's done available online though.
< 1533677450 487440 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what language is that? => latin, it’s by William [of] Ockham
< 1533677461 508098 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1533677603 369692 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd really have liked if he added "A hamis tanú" and "A kép-mutogató" to that series, but alas, he didn't, and he's dead since 1906.
< 1533677615 623975 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it the calligraphy or the drawing you like? if the drawing, you can find more examples of his drawing, because his works (or at least most of them) are in public domain now, and many of them are available online => I didn’t concentrated on drawings yet, but yes they at least match the handwriting
< 1533677690 192524 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The best we could get is to commission a really good painter-forger and a really good calligrapher-forger to make those imitating his style, but such a comission would cost more than a car in my estimate, and I don't think there'd be enough backers on a crowdforging site and I don't have the money myself, so I haven't even tried to ask a price quot
< 1533677690 302817 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.
< 1533677770 189648 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they at least match the handwriting => yes, it's by the same hand, and from the same volumes composed together. I think he actually drew the letters overlapping the images on the original.
< 1533677846 834007 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think the original 1989 volume wasn't even made with the easy modern photographic technique that can copy basically any drawing in high fidelity, he had to do it the hard way, with whatever the one of the other two methods were for this than etching back then (it's not etching)
< 1533677880 581375 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1533677915 517420 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the modern reprint, of course, uses digital photography and digital printing, but since it's in a high enough quality (you can see the printed dot pattern if you zoom in, I scanned in 600 dpi to avoid most of the Moiré), I don't mind
< 1533677999 999273 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could get on-site access to the original edition in libraries, and in fact had seen two of the four volumes earlier, but it would be hard and expensive to get them to photograph it (it's an old book so libraries won't scan, they'll only photograph),
< 1533678064 659138 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I chose the cheap solution and bought a throwaway copy of the reprint, I destroyed it with my heart bleading on destroying a copy of such a beautiful book while I cut open the binding and actually cut into many pages during.
< 1533678091 429192 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the last couple of minutes I think I think shallowly. You tell interesting things and I can’t properly respond to them)
< 1533678097 635174 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In retrospect, most of that wouldn't have been necessary, I would only have had to remove the outer hard cover to be able to scan, but I didn't realize that back then.
< 1533678119 415223 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would have destroyed the book anyway, so it doesn't matter much in the end.
< 1533678151 27975 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is
< 1533678165 18321 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not entirely destroyed, since that would have made scanning impossible, all the single pages are still intact, so I can read it carefully at home.
< 1533678187 320390 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if that weren't so, I could buy a new copy. The reprint is cheap (around 6000 HUF) for what it's worth.
< 1533678213 261864 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1533678225 641307 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But all that plus the cost of scanning plus my time was totally worth IMO for sharing a digitized version with all the world, many of whom wouldn't even hear about this book otherwise.
< 1533678234 499954 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I can’t write properly, sorry)
< 1533678246 668346 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :But all that plus the cost of scanning plus my time was totally worth IMO for sharing a digitized version with all the world, many of whom wouldn't even hear about this book otherwise. => totally agree
< 1533678263 126194 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope some of them will buy a copy of the reprint so they have a print copy, thus supporting the publisher to whom I owe a big thanks for reprinting this.
< 1533678292 499297 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should scan something thin and softcover if I find out it’s rare and interesting
< 1533678305 304978 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reprint is from 2016, so they actually did the expensive digitizing process in a much more professional way then I could have payed for. I would not have done that.
< 1533678347 855461 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I have suggestions. Where do you live?
< 1533678416 245944 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are two Jules Verne books with beautiful illustrations by  Jules-Descartes Férat (1829–1906) engraved by Charles Barbant (1844—1922)
< 1533678457 316841 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're in public domain and there are reprint version available, at least in Hungary, usually together with the bad old public domain translations.
< 1533678486 210890 :onur4!~onur@49.142.40.177 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533678493 870172 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are low resolution scans of them online already, but no good high res ones.
< 1533678503 33841 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm working on it, but if you want to speed it up, I'd appreciate it.
< 1533678526 405899 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The books aren't technically thin, but if you only scan the etchings, not the text, then it's not many pages.
< 1533678531 358082 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533678532 373128 :onur4!~onur@49.142.40.177 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533678548 968394 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll need a decent scanner. I used a copy shop one, which isn't perfect, but is cheap.
< 1533678581 990037 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a professional service for this, but I don't want to cough the money up for that yet, except for a few very valuable family photos that they can scan better than I could.
< 1533678607 58709 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm also scanning family photos for my family, not for publishing. Different project, but can do with same trip sometimes.)
< 1533678671 944406 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no need to scan the text of any Verne, most public domain translations and all originals are already not only scanned but digitized to text and proofread and published.
< 1533678689 327553 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The exception were if any happened to go out of copyright around now, but I don't know of any such translation.
< 1533678729 805370 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, I didn’t think that far. I’m in Russia in a more or less big city, and for these books it’s possible to be in the library somewhere near (though I doubt it, maybe in Moscow or St. Petersburg, I’m far from these), but I can’t say I’m into libraries and I had never scanned a book
< 1533678759 285964 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you make anything publishable and in public domain, please either publish to Wikimedia Commons, or ping me or them after you publish so I can upload it to there.
< 1533678773 614951 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can help in the uploading and metadata on Commons if you want.
< 1533678796 29185 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, if you can, ping me in advance if you do it with this specific case, so we don't do redundant work.
< 1533678833 20324 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But only do this if it actually causes you pleasure. Nobody will compensate you by money for this, unless you somehow solve that yourself.
< 1533678844 733324 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even then, it's not worth if you don't actually like it.
< 1533678849 129254 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not every art is your style.
< 1533678876 66678 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This one is just my favourite etcher.
< 1533678919 411390 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: okay! I doubt I could help with this case, but thanks for both offers
< 1533678932 911641 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: And even then, it's not worth if you don't actually like it. => agree
< 1533678987 389210 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Commons already has a copy of all the low res scans by http://jv.gilead.org.il/rpaul/ , a site that honors Jules Verne's books *original* illustrations (rather than the crap some publishers put in in 2050 to 2000, when the photographing tech wasn't yet cheap or possible at all, or the original drawing wasn't yet out of copyright, and they couldn't 
< 1533678987 494881 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :get their hands on the original etch master plates.
< 1533679017 658627 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the old translations around 1900 actually borrowed the original plates of etching, which is real impressive.
< 1533679040 740011 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, some of them, including the one I already published, uses the original plates but messed up the printing process, so the drawings come out too dark and some details are invisible.
< 1533679080 222922 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have scans of half of the drawings of this same book (Indes Noires) from another edition (the Szegő György translation) waiting on my hard drive to edit and publish.
< 1533679118 384476 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I should really make more backups of my hard disk, although I think I have a single backup of those scans.
< 1533679142 961688 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, I should finish ranting and watch that video like I promised.
< 1533679149 350703 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1533679196 412511 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But really, look at http://jv.gilead.org.il/rpaul/ , you might find an illustrator and etcher whose style you prefer over Jules-Descartes Férat and Charles Barbant
< 1533679205 774411 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't claim that they're objectively the best
< 1533679219 959197 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :it’s very nice to read your “ranting”, I should say
< 1533679243 247429 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I never get to watch the video. It's already past midnight and I should work tomorrow and I'm already on like -4 hours sleep.
< 1533679246 962587 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe -6 hours.
< 1533679262 622893 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you expect too much of silly me, though :D
< 1533679265 420128 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I wanted to do other things today too, but don't we always?
< 1533679277 418736 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I want to give feedback.
< 1533679281 743501 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Repeat my old question:
< 1533679302 60343 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll watch it now. can I give commentary as the video goes, or should I hold it all until the end?
< 1533679318 462729 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said, as you wish :)
< 1533679336 153998 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there supposed to be any sound?
< 1533679346 690037 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1533679405 590764 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it’s almost half a hour, and I’m personally going to sleep, so you could technically watch it tomorrow, I absolutely don’t mind
< 1533679454 710431 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need to hurry
< 1533679467 578878 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can logread
< 1533679472 687070 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm riled up now
< 1533679474 573846 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :and good night!
< 1533679482 157060 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I’ll definitely read
< 1533679495 634863 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"privet!" I think. I'm not sure that's a p, but a p would make sense.
< 1533679506 33429 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct
< 1533679515 501450 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, see you later
< 1533679542 420458 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have to learn to read this too, if I want to write it for myself.)
< 1533679706 397447 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Aplê..." let me get those drawings from yesterday
< 1533679777 332639 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1533679799 299334 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks more like a "p" though. what's the deal with the "p" in "privet!"?
< 1533679918 292935 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by "what's the deal" with the "п" in "привет!"?
< 1533679929 590683 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, "Aplêičau"
< 1533679961 725190 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: in the video, it looks strange. and this is a video demonstrating a consistent form of handwriting, so if it were strange, ar' would have edited it out
< 1533679971 441672 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think there's something I don't understand there.
< 1533679980 169332 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't look like a "P" either.
< 1533679993 872893 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I would think it's derived from π not p)
< 1533680007 248123 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry for using the ISO-9 transcription by the way, I don't have an easy way to type the russian characters, but I can type these easily
< 1533680007 660771 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.80.212.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533680010 589807 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533680037 238703 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yes, but there's a normal shaped p right in "Aplêičau" on the next slide
< 1533680038 45996 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for the russian Р vs grrek Ρ.
< 1533680047 51929 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :*greek
< 1533680062 731558 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION isn't going to watch any video now.

< 1533680065 555664 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes yes, I know. The russian r looks somewhat like the latin p. I know that.
< 1533680132 527598 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The context is, I know the russian alphabet, I just want to learn how to handwrite it, because it annoys me that I can't jot down russian names in notes, and I'm using ISO-9 transcription handwritten instead, which works but hurts me inside.
< 1533680162 683341 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And arseniiv volunteered to teach the handwriting he learned, because he agreed there are no good enough tutorials on the internet.
< 1533680184 243202 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't expect his video to be perfect, but he won't just leave a bad letter in there.
< 1533680204 161936 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He said he edits the video, so he would have replaced any obviously bad parts, so I refuse that explanation.
< 1533680241 790377 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah no, it's "Aplêjčau", you write the brevis after the rest, I paused too soon. That even sounds more like a word.
< 1533680269 837917 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: does that make sense?
< 1533680311 992491 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "cursive" column from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_alphabet matches what I remember.\
< 1533680327 15807 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no clue what "Aplêjčau" is.
< 1533680340 301953 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: ar' gave better links yesterday: https://www.reddit.com/r/russian/comments/69mcom/%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%88%D0%B8_%D1%80%D1%83%D1%81%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D0%B1%D1%83%D0%BA%D0%B2%D1%8B_%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D0%BE/ https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9f/9d/4a/9f9d4aa8e31eadcd2f4dfc44d23dd9f6.jpg
< 1533680366 764418 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :both are images in HTML
< 1533680370 889704 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or pure images
< 1533680372 132235 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno
< 1533680373 612465 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not videos
< 1533680383 330061 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is Appalachian mountains, in America
< 1533680392 448852 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's just a guess, I didn't check a dictionary
< 1533680397 210620 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care
< 1533680401 692340 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :STUPID Firefox... when I make a selection in my terminal, please follow X standards and forget your own selection so that I can actually paste what I marked?!?!
< 1533680439 870702 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Referencing the drawings for the "B" word too.)
< 1533680512 236193 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Betel'gejze" I think
< 1533680551 216622 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice mousewriting, I couldn't draw such a continuous line with a mouse
< 1533680571 9480 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or very nice video editing to hide the jumps
< 1533680695 972995 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Veneciâ"
< 1533680774 806593 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Gimalai" more mountains, although this one has a strange spelling, ending in "ai"
< 1533680827 797036 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Daniâ"
< 1533680906 369587 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Enisej" the river in Russia, right?
< 1533680929 835087 :ajvpot5!~ajvpot@52.129.50.29 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533681020 416858 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, there will be no olist this past Monday, but there will be one earlier today.
< 1533681082 995137 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ëtunžejt" and you write the diaresis and the brevis in the Right^{TM} order, not the French order. good. they haven't infected your education with that nonsense yet.
< 1533681160 51979 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ženeva"
< 1533681187 500877 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ap_Lei_Chau is Аплєйчау
< 1533681193 389802 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shrugs

< 1533681216 675483 :ajvpot5!~ajvpot@52.129.50.29 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1533681230 286400 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: ok
< 1533681290 800885 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Zanzibar", we're at the capital letters that are hard to write now.
< 1533681302 863493 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGIRL, dying...
< 1533681343 208337 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't mean "I" of course. that's an easy one.)
< 1533681383 456963 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Iguasu" perhaps?
< 1533681421 385562 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, for me that is, because it's the same as a latin "U" would be in this style)
< 1533681612 390768 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Jiglava" it looks like
< 1533681628 604758 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I could be confusing letters of course
< 1533681686 781208 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :another hard letter. "Kël'n"
< 1533681804 707018 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :another hard one (it looks easy, but I'm sure it's hard to write in a way that I can read it unambiguously too) "Labraziâ" wait, you lifted your pen during that "r" I think
< 1533681824 556344 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'll see later in the video if that's how "r" is supposed to work, I guess
< 1533681956 34954 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Merkurij" and I think this time you didn't lift your pen during either "r", but you did during "k", which looks more reasonable. Also, that's a scary example name to me.
< 1533682004 577930 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes. the lower case "n" does look hard, good thing you wrote it three times here.
< 1533682037 330335 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Nil" three letters? I feel shortcharged for my no money :-)
< 1533682087 70876 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the first lowercase "o" the final form?
< 1533682158 249028 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, that's interesting, in Hungarian if I write proper cursive, I always use the second form for a top connection or final, and an entirely different form of "o" for the low connection
< 1533682187 343153 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not even "o" is the same in russian and latin? no, I can't believe that. it's probably just different in different styles of cursive.
< 1533682195 250206 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving...
< 1533682239 550073 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533682242 225492 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oblako Oorta"
< 1533682265 186708 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(placenames can be strange)
< 1533682291 731459 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Palau" easy
< 1533682301 585217 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, easy because your mousewriting is really good
< 1533682351 178846 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't be able to read a word of my own handwriting at first, I think, so there's a cost for the ideal
< 1533682381 957770 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might have to do multiple tries of the same word each time and an ISO-9 transcription too so I can read it back
< 1533682400 863771 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is ugly, but a step towards the goal I'll never reach
< 1533682423 27108 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I intend to spend my practice time on cubing, not russian writing
< 1533682427 447712 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of it at least
< 1533682506 440253 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Rodiniâ" but I'm not sure in this one
< 1533682573 539874 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Salnce" I think.
< 1533682585 682632 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, I'll stop the video here and continue to watch the rest some other time
< 1533682588 570972 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's too late
< 1533682595 363583 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's nice so far
< 1533682622 443212 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably have to rewatch it too after I watch the whole thing, to notice more stuff about the letters
< 1533682672 79577 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you very much so far, aarseniv (and I hope you can figure out which comments are for you and which for int-e)
< 1533682737 823011 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rodinia_reconstruction.jpg
< 1533682786 602590 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case you can't read ISO-9, which is quite possible since you need that stuff to find books or get information about books in library catalogs in Hungary and many other countries where library catalogs use latin letter transcriptions for literally everything
< 1533682848 242583 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit strange, because in Hungary, probably more people could read the printed cyrillic than the ISO-9 transcription, but perhaps it's a tradition from when they don't have russian typewriters for library catalog slips
< 1533682866 222316 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: not sure whether this is directed at me, but the ISO-9 is really confusing to me
< 1533682884 389461 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: no, that's directed at aarseniv mostly
< 1533682944 807402 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nljqdysiamlywkrh JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533682979 515916 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, aarseniv (but int-e too if you care), if you can't read ISO-9, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_9 has a full table comprising the cyrillic letters in most languages that use them, and
< 1533683075 805732 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanization_of_Russian#Transliteration_table has a table for Russian alphabet only (plus obsolate letters in bottom rows), look at the column with heading "ISO9:1995; GOST 2002(A)"
< 1533683087 999609 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want this second one for the Russian I type
< 1533683145 651047 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that if "Я" is transliterated anything but "Â" then you're looking at the wrong column. That one is very important for the library catalogs, and appears in my transcripts too obviously
< 1533683231 932397 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is good that libraries use this sane system, because the ones that use "Ja" for that and "j" and "a" for other letters are a bit annoying to say the least, and so are the ones that use "ya" and "y" and "a" respectively
< 1533683300 965475 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except obviously there have to be standards for printing these passports that always have your name in ascii letters, but that's not what a library catalog transcription aims for
< 1533683560 356111 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid anecdote: there are also cyrillization systems, to transcribe latin to a local alphabet. When I was in Macedonia, back before they were full EU members so they had a bit stricter rules for visitors, I changed cash from I don't know what currency to the local currency.
< 1533683667 111966 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The cash converting agent was required to give me a printed receipt that includes my name as it appears in the passport. My name has a Hungarian "zs", which he transcribed to macedonian as "ЗС", which was probably by the transcription rules he used, but looked riddiculous to me.
< 1533683688 712051 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It obviously doesn't matter what he writes to the receipt, which is why I said it was a stupid anecdote.
< 1533683705 415392 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533683731 853988 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISO-9 is Russian-centric, so Russian transcribed with it actually looks relatively good, but most other languages transcribed with ISO-9 look horrible.
< 1533683785 292178 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Luckily in library book catalogs in *Hungary*, it is much more common to find Russian names or titles than names or titles from other languages, because of the effects of the Soviet Union suppressing a lot of local languages,
< 1533683877 796295 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very rarely you can find books in Ukranian or Croatian or Belarussian, with title presumably in those languages, but I don't look at the title much so it doesn't matter. I have yet to see a Macedonian one.
< 1533683926 682153 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've also seen ones marked as Serbo-Croatian.
< 1533683956 911617 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Serbian is usually not transcribed by ISO-9, but by serbian latin, which happen to coincide in all except one letter the serbian "j"
< 1533683975 625661 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533683984 482190 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um no, they don't coincide of course
< 1533683995 71001 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they never clash other than at the serbian "j"
< 1533684036 708111 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533684043 210532 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the clash is only a theoretical problem, and not being able to automatically decide which words are transcriptions from what language is a much more serious theoretical problem
< 1533684046 229004 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night now
< 1533684087 715857 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or, technically, from which group of languages using the same transcription system, including identity for all latin letter languages as the transcription system)
< 1533684134 287647 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if Chinese or Japanese transcription is involved, you're in even more trouble
< 1533684152 986068 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't even automatically untranscribe that, although there are pretty good approximation algorithms now
< 1533684263 728279 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from transcribing between different countries of kanji, I have heard of only two transcription systems that promise to transcribe most Japanese texts to a limited alphabet,
< 1533684334 657062 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and both are systems for extended Japanese braille methods for transcribing kanji, and one I've only seen as vague descriptions, for the other I've seen somewhat extended descriptions (I never sought a full list) and it seems nicely done except that it's REALLY fucking crowded with practically zero redundancy
< 1533684396 965448 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It translates to backwards 8-point braille, where the two extra dots are *above* the normal six dots, which I don't think is used anywhere other than this one system, and doesn't even have a Unicode encoding.
< 1533684439 683810 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braille_kanji by the way
< 1533684473 546127 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uses the extra upper two dots only to mark kanji, with the upper left set at the first cell that encodes a kanji and the upper right set for the last cell.
< 1533684528 653247 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each kanji has at most one encoding (luckily) which can be one cell, two cells, three cells, I don't know the upper limit, tries to be somewhat mnemonic, but the one and two cell spaces are REALLY crowded, giving no redundancy in kanji
< 1533684706 529314 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and normal braille kanji is already so crowded that literally all 64 possible six-point cells are used to mean something, and even this way it needs extra cells to mark dakuten and switches to and from katakana and to arabic digits and to romaji
< 1533684728 976375 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's some even more horrible hacks that I think I erased from my memory
< 1533684767 705040 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet this system, if it actually lives up to its promises, would be a very good base for a faithful transcription system of Japanese to latin script (with punctuations)
< 1533684786 288688 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as far as I know, there is no such transcription system
< 1533684833 702835 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could also be used as base for a transcription system from Japanese to a funny script that's made of kana-only plus overbars for indicating kana that stand for kanji, plus some punctuation
< 1533684895 772088 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the kana part and simple japanese punctuation would be identity-transformed, and the kanji transcription could be typed on a keyboard or transmitted through morse code or signal flags or teletype or
< 1533684960 689568 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with an automatic transcription, make it easier for European people to read digital Japanese texts with kanji or handwrite them without having to learn the calligraphy, although that one is probably so taboo that nobody would attempt to popularize it
< 1533684967 670528 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not in this century at least
< 1533684974 538812 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, I can dream, right?
< 1533685035 964580 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, transcribing kanji for the blind is a noble goal, but for all the rest they would never use such a system now
< 1533685058 23826 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps in a steampunk level technology fantasy world they would have developped such a system
< 1533685116 279424 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because no teletypes could handle kanji directly, but the teletype operator can look up kanji in a table (that he eventually learns by heart since it's mnemonic) and transmit text with kanji faithfully, which is better than writing all telex messages with kana only
< 1533685140 573884 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, I said good night like a long time ago
< 1533685151 67796 :wob_jonas!b03f188e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.142 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
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< 1533686144 530076 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1533686833 336046 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Register Automaton14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=57270 5* 03A 5* (+81) 10Created page with "''Register Automaton'' is a simple esolang which only has 1 instruction:  @x=y?Lx"
> 1533687136 181055 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Register Automaton14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57271&oldid=57270 5* 03A 5* (+387) 10
> 1533687160 446109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57272&oldid=57246 5* 03A 5* (+25) 10
< 1533687860 527836 :impomatic!~digital_w@host81-136-87-199.range81-136.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic
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< 1533687897 671110 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533688244 682138 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar CYUL
< 1533688245 364643 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :CYUL 080000Z 24007KT 15SM FEW040 FEW075 BKN250 26/20 A2986 RMK CF1AC1CI5 CF TR AC TR SLP113 DENSITY ALT 1500FT
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< 1533692798 855900 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: RECITING CHICKEN
< 1533693934 495787 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :jfc that's a wall of text
< 1533695792 362607 :metax!~metax@112.168.104.49 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533697090 583193 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533697747 328319 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1533698041 672628 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533698318 629921 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1533698512 338900 :lbft10!~lbft@189-75-40-218.fnses700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533698549 31527 :lbft10!~lbft@189-75-40-218.fnses700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533698586 149712 :nosbig!~nosbig@186.39.168.116 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533698637 931901 :nosbig!~nosbig@186.39.168.116 QUIT :Killed (Unit193 (Spam is not permitted on freenode.))
< 1533699466 298107 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcxjjolhieopoojo QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1533700260 181054 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you never use a UNIX system, why should you care? The answer is because ActiveX is intended to be cross-platform, which means that someone running a Web browser under the Sun Solaris system (a UNIX variant) might be browsing pages you have designed.
< 1533700424 870585 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you want to use ActiveX extensively (and who wouldn't?), you need to use an ActiveX-enabled browser, and you need to know that your users will have ActiveX-enabled browsers. At the moment, your chioces are either Microsft Internet Explorer 3.x (Explorer 2.x has limited support for more advanced ActiveX components) or Netscape Navigator plus the ActiveX plug-in from NCompass Labs. Power Mac users need a similar plug-in which is available 
< 1533700425 46117 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the the beta of the ActiveX SDK."
< 1533700444 582021 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533700697 481900 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1533701039 357786 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-137-99.cdrr.qwest.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533701067 422013 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-137-99.cdrr.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533701817 905482 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving...
< 1533701843 219121 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: But what about the rest of the week?
< 1533703370 493020 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533703682 292648 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533703798 883847 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell wob_jonas <wob_jonas> [...] in which language Wiktionary? you can check in both the french, the english, and the native one. maybe one of them has the accents or pronunciation. <-- i'm complaining about the english.  i do check the native ones when that isn't good enough.  i'm not usually on the french, since i'm not fluent in it.
< 1533703799 158624 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1533703807 373277 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a bit long.
< 1533703860 286334 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell wob_jonas <wob_jonas> oerjan: also, how about the Lithuanian entries? <-- i'm not sure if i've ever looked up a lithuanian word.
< 1533703860 562346 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1533703941 255277 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533704686 418209 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric
> 1533704736 809371 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Home Row14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57273&oldid=23179 5* 03A 5* (+143) 10
> 1533704747 914452 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Home Row14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57274&oldid=57273 5* 03A 5* (+1) 10
> 1533706079 191211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Register Automaton14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57275&oldid=57271 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+4) 10/* Computational Class */ no it's not
< 1533706636 63652 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote <wob_jonas> and at least don't put Hofstadter next to the time cube guy without at least a semicolon, that's insulting Hofstadter
< 1533706637 877654 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1326) <wob_jonas> and at least don't put Hofstadter next to the time cube guy without at least a semicolon, that's insulting Hofstadter
< 1533706927 397973 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533707195 387217 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533707370 429800 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :<int-e> Dear Carl [...] <-- i was momentarily confused at seeing this just after the phineas and ferb mention...
< 1533707545 636451 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :you read the whole thing? impressive
< 1533707593 696502 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm only halfway through the logs AAAAAAAAA
< 1533707619 600179 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not MtG discussion so my instinct to skip it doesn't trigger enough
< 1533707869 594119 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533707925 144199 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan skips MtG discussions?!
< 1533707938 284499 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's what this channel is all about
< 1533707944 258354 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION grins evilly

< 1533709447 267291 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533709734 223573 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
> 1533710999 997550 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57276&oldid=57267 5* 03DMC 5* (-4) 10/* Grawlix */
< 1533712690 672017 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533712947 665043 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533713641 949903 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
< 1533714247 622481 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533714878 398336 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533714984 499765 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1533715007 300064 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533716066 635455 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1533716092 471958 :justanotheruser!~justanoth@host-cotesma-131-155.smandes.com.ar JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533716113 631706 :justanotheruser!~justanoth@host-cotesma-131-155.smandes.com.ar QUIT :K-Lined
< 1533716838 539010 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533717131 696102 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533717586 786521 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533718448 713657 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1533719297 31098 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533720119 286937 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nljqdysiamlywkrh QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1533721349 665760 :robotroll!~robotroll@h178-129-107-32.dyn.bashtel.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533721463 164976 :robotroll!~robotroll@h178-129-107-32.dyn.bashtel.ru QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533721734 646910 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :how evil
< 1533721888 1397 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? oerjan
< 1533721889 297475 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your omnidryad saddle principal golfing toe-obsessed "Darth Ook" oerjan the shifty loud hero is a hazy expert in minor compaction. Also a Groadep who minces Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance. His ark-nemesis is Noah. He twice punned without noticing it.
< 1533721915 693617 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`swrjan s/loud hero/evil grinch/
< 1533721917 487590 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan//Your omnidryad saddle principal golfing toe-obsessed "Darth Ook" oerjan the shifty evil grinch is a hazy expert in minor compaction. Also a Groadep who minces Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance. His ark-nemesis is Noah. He twice punned without noticing it.
< 1533721945 84007 :HollyW00d27!~HollyW00d@41.41.238.87 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533721949 411474 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :now we can ask: what is grinch mean time?
< 1533721973 310695 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: grinch mean time is any time when the grinch is mean, i.e. all the time, especially around Christmas
< 1533722051 894854 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about after the grinch's heart grows
< 1533722117 679935 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/01/140108170556.htm
< 1533722138 746354 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps the grinch was mean because of an improper heart transplant?
< 1533722222 777313 :HollyW00d27!~HollyW00d@41.41.238.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533722442 228456 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.192 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533722554 911641 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xrbuwyjtydvjomss JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533723245 443478 :olsner!~salparot@c83-253-165-33.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533725005 313373 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rsufscbwkpafqfgv JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533726527 105598 :olsner!~salparot@c83-253-165-33.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533729775 233946 :Inception!~Inception@152.232.195.77 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533729776 673123 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533729825 787825 :Inception!~Inception@152.232.195.77 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1533729972 687776 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.192 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1533730547 482207 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533731856 743032 :JollyRgrs2!~JollyRgrs@218.48.42.110 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533731901 938247 :JollyRgrs2!~JollyRgrs@218.48.42.110 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
> 1533732385 613568 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Noida14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57277&oldid=57265 5* 03Saka 5* (+15) 10
< 1533732653 825747 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PART :#esoteric
< 1533732672 360022 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533732679 369267 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’ve accidentally permanently deleted all notes from phone’s unsynced Google Keep :′(
< 1533732720 351289 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :a piece of my soul is lost
< 1533732899 105738 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( It's an opportunity: lots of room for personal growth. )
> 1533733713 960444 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OFC14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=57278 5* 03A 5* (+320) 10Created page with "''One Function Code'' is a one-instruction turing-tarpit. Its only command is:  [x]=content of register x  if(r,a,b)  If[#r]==0,goto line a.Else,flip[#r] and goto line b. ==Co..."
< 1533734188 564983 :dStruct18!~dStruct@customer1-18.airweb.cz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533734517 664495 :dStruct18!~dStruct@customer1-18.airweb.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533734708 412306 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: rebooting
< 1533734897 556044 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533734938 209078 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: maybe maybe
< 1533734975 198973 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to hope I’ll remember all worthy things that were there when it will be needed
< 1533734982 489439 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533734983 915707 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "i'm complaining about the english [wiktionary].  i do check the native ones when that isn't good enough.  i'm not usually on the french, since i'm not fluent in it." => yes, but your problem was the find the stress accenting for eg. russian or italian words. you don't need to read the meanings. french wiktionary is worth a check because it
< 1533734984 32133 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s the best maintained.
< 1533735031 843248 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 1326
< 1533735032 596370 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1326) <wob_jonas> and at least don't put Hofstadter next to the time cube guy without at least a semicolon, that's insulting Hofstadter
< 1533735034 948039 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm famous again
< 1533735037 323084 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Client Quit
< 1533735056 233 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533735064 4641 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the quotes are managed?
< 1533735089 139425 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1533735089 760363 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :600) <twice11> Yeah, statistics with 2 data points is science. Statistics with one data point is crap.  <twice11> You measure a third point if you need an error estimate.
< 1533735098 322642 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 1
< 1533735099 64154 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) <Slereah> EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork"
< 1533735103 456596 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: hackeso scripts to query or add or delete quotes, inherited from hackeso. backed in a simple text file
< 1533735114 267742 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 0
< 1533735115 20369 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :10) <fungot> GregorR-L: i bet only you can prevent forest fires. basically, you know. \ 20) IN EINEM ALTERNATIVEN UNIVERSUM (WO DIE NAZIS WON): <ehird> So kann ich nur schliessen, dass es falsch ist, oder die Welt ist vollig BONKERS. Gegrusset seist du der Fuhrer Hitler! \ 30) <lacota> I guess when you're immortal, mapping your fonts isn't necessary \ 34) <fizzie> Seconds. 30 of them. Did I forget the word? \ 40) <oklopol> GregorR: are you talking about eh
< 1533735116 404970 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one quote per line in text file
< 1533735123 157754 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just `quote gives you a random quote
< 1533735138 691250 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah so they are added manually after all
< 1533735140 960076 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it gives a random searching the term you give as argument to `quote
< 1533735142 301998 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1533735156 503840 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are also transferred to that wisdom PDF file I think, occasionally
< 1533735159 300383 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :who and when added 1326?
< 1533735162 18687 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? pdf
< 1533735163 91124 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :PDF stands for Pretty Depressing Format.
< 1533735199 516537 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: oerjan today. you can see from channel log or the mercurial log of the quote file in hackeso
< 1533735201 337952 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? portability
< 1533735202 455799 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :portability? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1533735206 426651 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1533735217 669572 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’ve yet to read logs
< 1533735225 71903 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? '
< 1533735226 190754 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​'? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1533735228 570148 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? "
< 1533735229 635223 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​"? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1533735231 150702 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`?
< 1533735232 215645 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1533735233 917183 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`'
< 1533735234 584999 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :788) <Phantom__Hoover> the scene: it is a warm summer's day in scotland, although one obscured by cloud and the fact that it is september
< 1533735235 742148 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`"
< 1533735236 469229 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :434) <fungot> fizzie: i, myself, will bring an end to all. \ 747) <pikhq> I vastly prefer "a blind idiot god".  <quintopia> pikhq: to what?  <pikhq> To the idea of someone actually intentionally designing a mouse.
< 1533735237 935043 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`q
< 1533735238 671771 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :448) <Phantom_Hoover> What is it with Cardassians, they're all really nice and then they hit you with a rock.
< 1533735246 226411 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the double quote gives you two quotes
< 1533735252 715986 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( A "portable" device is one that weighs 50kg or less, and fits into a suitcase. )
< 1533735268 231305 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yes, portable computers were originally like that.
< 1533735304 661125 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :the double quote gives you two quotes => surprisingly logical
< 1533735330 673261 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? deportable
< 1533735331 801943 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :deportable? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1533735346 633840 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: except for dictionaries, where a dictionary under a kilogram is a portable one, a dictionary that fits in your pocket is a pocket one, a dictionary that weighs between a kilogram and five and has at most two volumes is a home dictionary, and a multi-volume one is a comprehensive dictionary
< 1533735370 277342 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are dictionaries which exist in pocket, portable, and home editions, the smaller ones containing a selection of words from the larger ones
< 1533735400 18128 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are very few comprehensive dictionaries per language, including the OED and the "A magyar nyelv értelmező szótára"
< 1533735452 238063 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just writing about this in comments at http://www.madore.org/cgi-bin/comment.pl/showcomments?href=http%3a%2f%2fwww.madore.org%2f~david%2fweblog%2f2005-08.html%23d.2005-08-07.1066
< 1533735457 706656 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533735809 456045 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :some reactions:
< 1533735886 671289 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the video, it looks strange. and this is a video demonstrating a consistent form of handwriting, so if it were strange, ar' would have edited it out => yes, I had actually cut many fragments out, but I haven’t thought of doing a double take for this one for some reason
< 1533735983 611068 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I had meant yesterday as “messy” — I wasn’t perfectionist enough
< 1533736044 913282 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: sorry for using the ISO-9 transcription by the way, I don't have an easy way to type the russian characters, but I can type these easily => np, it’s readable
< 1533736094 538348 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533736191 492095 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn’t perfectionist enough => sorry for that :)
< 1533736227 107011 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :there’s a room for v2 though
< 1533736442 817688 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`whoq 1326
< 1533736447 484024 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​<oerjan> addquote <wob_jonas> and at least don\'t put Hofstadter next to the time cube guy without at least a semicolon, that\'s insulting Hofstadter
< 1533736448 471777 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unfortunately it won't work for any quote that got added before the most recent mass-`revert.)
< 1533736472 989232 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? nitia
< 1533736474 14160 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nitia is the inventor of all things. The BBC invented her.
< 1533736495 516828 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`whoq 1
< 1533736498 429183 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​<elliott> revert
< 1533736505 62704 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :right.
< 1533736666 684402 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: "Ëtunžejt" => actually I meant Ётунхейм Jötunheimr 
< 1533736691 436644 :Metacity26!~Metacity@219-122-143-138f1.shg1.eonet.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533736734 940656 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@nz1l77.bb60246.ctm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533736748 737498 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@nz1l77.bb60246.ctm.net NICK :Guest14992
< 1533736766 782098 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :or very nice video editing to hide the jumps => there’s actually only a few cuts overall where I had written something horribly wrong
< 1533736781 590564 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: what are you making?
< 1533736789 522882 :Metacity26!~Metacity@219-122-143-138f1.shg1.eonet.ne.jp QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1533736799 48746 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if my hand wasn’t sticking to the desk, the writing would be even better
< 1533736863 344923 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I had made a screencast on Russian cursive as it is taught to children in my time and (for all I see) now
< 1533736902 939026 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :( https://youtu.be/cYOqMf0xw4c )
< 1533736932 447653 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right! Not something I'm particularly interested in myself, I'm afraid, but good for you for making it!
< 1533736949 376143 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might check it out when I get home this evening
< 1533737020 528299 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: "Labraziâ" => в should be here (Лавразия, Laurasia)
< 1533737072 10499 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, that's a scary example name to me. => why Mercury is scary?
< 1533737091 485279 :Guest14992!~Vorpal@nz1l77.bb60246.ctm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1533737147 974809 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the first lowercase "o" the final form? => AFAIR yes, the final form is a truncated low-connection form
< 1533737273 213828 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mousewriting is really good => I wish it would be better, but it’s probably a work for a tablet
< 1533737334 937916 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Rodiniâ" but I'm not sure in this one => this is correct, the second and the last former continent here
< 1533737345 453052 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last in this list
< 1533737389 387741 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Salnce" I think. => with о instead of а it will be right (Солнце, Sun)
< 1533737429 219559 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I hope you can figure out which comments are for you and which for int-e => yes, it’s pretty easy
< 1533737506 747412 :Faylite9!~Faylite@nz1l77.bb60246.ctm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533737534 70405 :Faylite9!~Faylite@nz1l77.bb60246.ctm.net QUIT :Killed (Unit193 (Spam is not permitted on freenode.))
< 1533737577 639302 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: also thank you for ISO-9 link. I was trying to read it intuitively and I hope in a right fashion
< 1533737721 316758 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mercury => well, it sounds like the planet and the roman god, which wouldn't be scary in itself,
< 1533737766 786162 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but back in the communist regime, the same word "Merkúr" was also the name of the single institution in Hungary that was selling new cars to people, and people often had to wait years on a queue to get a new car because there weren't enough of them, even if they had the money to pay the price of the car
< 1533737798 898135 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they sold Trabants, Ladas, Polskis, Dacias, and others
< 1533737851 572276 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some people just wouldn't ever get a car, for no fault of their own
< 1533737857 843971 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are horror stories about it
< 1533737891 212534 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everyone had to be satisfied with the one car that became assigned for them, or else reject it and wait another probably infinite time
< 1533737900 140514 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also a pretty dangerous metal
< 1533737929 313579 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: ^
< 1533737940 724556 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: nah, they only call that in English
< 1533737979 677413 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it wasn't yet dangerous until like fifteen years ago, when they started to ban all mercury thermometers and lead soldering
< 1533737990 421604 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and phase out leaded fuel
< 1533737996 688854 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: wow
< 1533738002 538153 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tin, but nobody was using it
< 1533738016 268859 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, there are pretty good medical reasons for banning these
< 1533738043 650730 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are still no body thermometers better than the treasured old mercury ones that you can no longer buy in Hungary
< 1533738080 227158 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(English and most other western european languages)
< 1533738103 350789 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hospitals and private individuals treasure the remaining pieces alike, or perhaps try to get one from Ukraine
< 1533738146 133823 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can still hand them in to pharmacies for free for safe waste destruction, but you pretty much only want to do that if it no longer works or it broke
< 1533738166 735513 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're all made of glass so they break easily if you drop them, and cause a dangerous mercury leak
< 1533738187 508594 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you usually drop them when you're measuring your or your child's temperature, and the mercury can spill on the person
< 1533738187 548794 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :about Mercury: yeah, it’s probably an alchemy influence
< 1533738197 892945 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: yeah, just looked it up
< 1533738207 670506 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only metal whose alchemical name became the common name
< 1533738209 878600 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: yes, definitely, the seven classical metals are assoc'd with the seven classical planets
< 1533738233 37369 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gold = sun, silver = moon, iron = mars, mercury = mercury,
< 1533738237 381793 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Mercury because at the time it wasn't used much outside Alcehmy
< 1533738259 564324 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlike gold, silver, copper, tin, iron, lead
< 1533738265 371789 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think lead = saturn, tin = jupiter or backwards, I always forget, and, um
< 1533738272 511572 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copper = venus
< 1533738287 404225 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a mercury thermometer :) these days they are rare (or nonexistent, IDK) there too
< 1533738306 987751 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zinc was discovered too late so only these seven count as the classical alchemical metals
< 1533738314 794485 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I have one too, yes
< 1533738318 760283 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I use it
< 1533738331 834743 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some doctors also use mercury blood pressure meters
< 1533738333 557959 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have any medical thermometer
< 1533738380 444337 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a sugar thermometer but I don't know what's inside it
< 1533738384 6520 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not sugar
< 1533738411 317427 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I have fever occasionally, so I need a body thermometer of some sort to be able to tell precisely how to take countermeasures like various NSAIDs, cooling shower, and go to the doctor
< 1533738458 515707 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: what is the sugar thermometer's purpose? cooking?
< 1533738503 996624 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: yeah, stuff like toffee and jam where you have to boil sugar at a specific temperature
< 1533738514 851426 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I use it to make marshmallows occasionally)
< 1533738540 687128 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow wow
< 1533738554 342214 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so cooking. ok.
< 1533738584 340089 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a meat thermometer with those long needles to check the inside of whole cooked meat in the oven
< 1533738586 66963 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a soft candy once
< 1533738602 295195 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have any of those because I don't cook anything such difficult
< 1533738617 875311 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost fried it in the process
< 1533738617 967259 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't cook anything easy, which is terrible because I don't eat enough
< 1533738659 172921 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: that's not a big problem if you can get acceptible food from another source
< 1533738679 65246 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also rarely cook. and even less in this summer heat.
< 1533738690 923965 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/even less/even more rarely/
< 1533738734 599135 :mark-otaris!~mark-otar@FL1-119-243-213-179.chb.mesh.ad.jp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533738745 687931 :mark-otaris!~mark-otar@FL1-119-243-213-179.chb.mesh.ad.jp NICK :Guest56059
< 1533738834 953046 :Guest56059!~mark-otar@FL1-119-243-213-179.chb.mesh.ad.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533738875 249359 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:699c:a716:1b3e:6b38 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`smlist 476
< 1533738876 153312 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :smlist 476: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy Cale
< 1533738991 18447 :beuker!~beuker@175.112.13.251 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533739060 591875 :beuker!~beuker@175.112.13.251 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533740766 305131 :elenah7!~elenah@186-94-65-184.genericrev.cantv.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533740871 288692 :elenah7!~elenah@186-94-65-184.genericrev.cantv.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533741773 702519 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533742617 1931 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533742840 722832 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1533743423 641885 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1533743432 659476 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533743919 415750 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533744021 273391 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533744043 311069 :raspimate_!~raspimate@197.220.23.22 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533744065 30948 :raspimate_!~raspimate@197.220.23.22 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1533744346 879758 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533745242 264658 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533745644 711854 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :does somebody read webserials in languages other than English?
< 1533745818 531637 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems unfair that webcomics are written in a variety of languages for quite a long time, and it seems webserials don’t compare in that regard
< 1533745887 12387 :puck!~puck@puckipedia.com QUIT :Quit: *eh*
< 1533745983 764332 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rsufscbwkpafqfgv QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1533746011 160419 :puckipedia!~puck@puckipedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533747434 32583 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
> 1533748383 77356 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57279&oldid=57276 5* 03DMC 5* (+35) 10
> 1533748457 88039 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Alphabet Stew14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57280&oldid=54957 5* 03DMC 5* (+42) 10/* Examples */
< 1533748745 394449 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533748793 723373 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1533749459 352539 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NoRAL14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57281&oldid=54798 5* 03DMC 5* (+93) 10/* The Instruction set */
> 1533749517 608010 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NoRAL14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57282&oldid=57281 5* 03DMC 5* (-44) 10/* The Instruction set */
> 1533749565 776392 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NoRAL14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57283&oldid=57282 5* 03DMC 5* (+4) 10/* The Instruction set */
< 1533749685 73405 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2
< 1533750253 556995 :wgma!~wgma@220.191.160.211 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533750267 798982 :wgma!~wgma@220.191.160.211 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533750279 328734 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533751425 345041 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gprfswhhmeshtgzw JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533752158 897144 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: oh dang
< 1533752331 794425 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533752615 24979 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGIRL, dying...
< 1533752774 645307 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533753001 435101 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1533753576 688294 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533753634 486567 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533755496 716307 :robotroll!~robotroll@138.0.89.178 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533755523 873018 :robotroll!~robotroll@138.0.89.178 QUIT :Killed (Unit193 (Spam is not permitted on freenode.))
< 1533756405 811091 :eNigmaFx10!~eNigmaFx@160.178.30.0 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533756472 995316 :eNigmaFx10!~eNigmaFx@160.178.30.0 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533756720 8500 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xrbuwyjtydvjomss QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
> 1533758054 859975 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NoRAL14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57284&oldid=57283 5* 03DMC 5* (+55) 10/* The Instruction set */
< 1533758994 932201 :quiz9627!~quiz96@190-199-156-185.dyn.dsl.cantv.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533759102 514387 :quiz9627!~quiz96@190-199-156-185.dyn.dsl.cantv.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533759267 760319 :ZexaronS!~ZexaronS@45.241.132.194 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533759310 344399 :ZexaronS!~ZexaronS@45.241.132.194 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533760095 717231 :puckipedia!~puck@puckipedia.com NICK :puck
< 1533760130 468616 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2
< 1533761168 651726 :Platonides22!~Platonide@61.158.82.136 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533761207 313763 :Platonides22!~Platonide@61.158.82.136 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1533761623 577214 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533761830 667397 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1533762207 672197 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533762325 494640 :DJones!~DJones@171.214.248.247 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533762338 956410 :DJones!~DJones@171.214.248.247 QUIT :K-Lined
< 1533765081 399785 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGIRL, dying...
< 1533765861 631216 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533766080 705884 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1533768184 623557 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1533768185 863313 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed PART :#esoteric
< 1533768787 704661 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533768946 528155 :egos20!~egos@186.21.207.4 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533769032 321006 :lifthrasiir_!~lifthrasi@ec2-52-79-98-81.ap-northeast-2.compute.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533769051 622811 :egos20!~egos@186.21.207.4 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533769096 348495 :alercah_!~alercah@159.81.203.35.bc.googleusercontent.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533769105 328037 :alercah_!~alercah@159.81.203.35.bc.googleusercontent.com QUIT :Changing host
< 1533769105 328092 :alercah_!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533769300 421086 :Effilry!znc@freenode/staff/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533769368 512846 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@ec2-52-79-98-81.ap-northeast-2.compute.amazonaws.com QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1533769368 774325 :Yurume_______!23f9939a@121.78.85.35 QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1533769369 272566 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1533769372 622774 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1533769373 158686 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1533769455 586228 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1533769466 474702 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533769782 707462 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533769879 384703 :Yurume_______!23f9939a@121.78.85.35 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533769982 114277 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533770037 700387 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533770520 109252 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloily
< 1533771121 965855 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :QUINTHELLOPIAAAAAAAAAAH!
< 1533771481 998870 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533771759 26281 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1533772038 23484 :alercah_!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah NICK :alercah
< 1533772850 96634 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :alercah: hellorcahellorcah.
< 1533772954 977361 :MDead!~MDude@97-127-137-99.cdrr.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533772982 682410 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-137-99.cdrr.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1533772989 999365 :MDead!~MDude@97-127-137-99.cdrr.qwest.net NICK :MDude
< 1533773316 539455 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonjouroily!
< 1533774506 292785 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tournament! subscription! riichimontreal.org!
< 1533774520 286145 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I saw, thanks
< 1533774691 466118 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay ^^
< 1533775647 635611 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533775687 650994 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1533775940 813717 :deltab!~deltab@ds6266.dedicated.turbodns.co.uk QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1533776154 206142 :deltab!~deltab@ds6266.dedicated.turbodns.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533776332 183632 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533777212 495917 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533777899 381151 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloily.
< 1533777956 680799 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533778252 634510 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1533778377 103922 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonsϿirjan!
< 1533778856 530450 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: RESPONSE CHICKEN
< 1533778859 278079 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell wob_jonas french wiktionary is worth a check because it's the best maintained. <-- ah ok i was assuming the english was
< 1533778859 578679 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1533779054 667629 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1533779145 106142 :hurt_by_captcha!056460a3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.5.100.96.163 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533779231 701678 :Numline1!~Numline1@86.98.23.254 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533779254 666483 :Numline1!~Numline1@86.98.23.254 NICK :Guest84678
< 1533779271 607654 :Guest84678!~Numline1@86.98.23.254 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1533779406 767920 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :? url
< 1533779414 97535 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url
< 1533779414 904683 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/
< 1533779581 222514 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533779772 608717 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/culprits
< 1533779773 280896 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoag "$@" | awk '{print substr($1,2,length($1)-2)}' | xargs -d'\n'
< 1533779780 448130 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/hoag
< 1533779781 56838 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hlnp --removed --template "{desc}\n" -- "$@"
< 1533779781 910766 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wdwugrorzskxuqqj JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533779786 609604 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/hlnp
< 1533779787 190020 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :scowrevs="$(/usr/bin/paste -sd'|' /hackenv/share/scowrevs)"; hg log -r "tip:0 & ! ($scowrevs)" "$@" | sed 's/\(\(^\| \)[<Itb][^ ]*\)\([^ ][^ ]\)/\1̈\3/'
< 1533779967 596011 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hg blame quotes | paste
< 1533779971 425199 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` hg blame quotes | paste
< 1533779974 263607 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/tmp/paste/paste.17862
< 1533780054 178494 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, paste doesn't write to hg
< 1533780399 858460 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what's that paste -sd'|' thing...
< 1533780409 851727 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1533780441 417156 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` hg blame --skip "$(/usr/bin/paste -sd'|' /hackenv/share/scowrevs)" quotes | paste
< 1533780442 788033 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hg annotate: option --skip not recognized \ https://hack.esolangs.org/tmp/paste/paste.1675
< 1533780447 546149 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn
< 1533780454 428572 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :too new
< 1533780472 44736 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also marked as experimental)
< 1533780481 242394 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ^
< 1533780707 576784 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm...
< 1533780760 370190 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm blaming an earlier revision won't work because lines may have been deleted.
< 1533780829 127099 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well.
< 1533781242 7285 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533781244 7335 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 275 seconds
< 1533781273 305756 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533781523 989483 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1533782023 321264 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffs, there was a language that was a cross between finite state machines and string rewriting. it was on github. I cannot find it. it was an esolang.
< 1533782303 647363 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :Squishy2K!
> 1533782764 376360 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OFC14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57285&oldid=57278 5* 03Ais523 5* (+265) 10/* Computational Class */ unusable, not TC
> 1533782795 279672 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OFC14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57286&oldid=57285 5* 03Ais523 5* (+10) 10clarify in the introduction that this isn't TC
< 1533783134 250437 :hurt_by_captcha!056460a3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.5.100.96.163 QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1533784177 543622 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would y'all consider to be the most fundamental control structure.
< 1533784192 623693 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :or set of control structures.
< 1533784264 990278 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any ActiveX experts here?
< 1533784476 665137 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533784746 630483 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1533784956 262089 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: the reverse jump with continuation pirouette hth
> 1533785233 159856 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Alphabet Stew14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57287&oldid=57280 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+4) 10/* Alphabet Stew */ Fix header
< 1533786275 430480 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533786474 322320 :iDanoo11!~iDanoo@189.248.58.8 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533786486 371949 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmao.
< 1533786519 73556 :iDanoo11!~iDanoo@189.248.58.8 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533786746 645899 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533787217 997896 :precise!~precise@222.76.75.164 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533787425 142358 :precise!~precise@222.76.75.164 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533787715 412174 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533787985 408508 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533788264 979882 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533788371 220683 :sleepnap!~thomas@69.14.226.9 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533788566 706504 :d9b4bef910!~d9b4bef9@197.251.159.163 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533788751 453044 :OPK24!~OPK@196.64.117.150 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533788907 671036 :d9b4bef910!~d9b4bef9@197.251.159.163 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533789065 389080 :OPK24!~OPK@196.64.117.150 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533789640 886997 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell wob_jonas ok that doesn't go to well. e.g. i found https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Annexe:Conjugaison_en_italien/parlare and the information there is clearly _wrong_ on the pronunciation of parlerò.
< 1533789641 153017 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1533789708 456730 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell wob_jonas (i am trying to find an example with pronunciations not just of the lemma forms, but also the inflections.)
< 1533789708 791859 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1533789720 512114 :n0nada4!~n0nada@187.10.197.75 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533789762 733586 :n0nada4!~n0nada@187.10.197.75 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533790329 561896 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell wob_jonas and the saddest thing - none of the other wiktionaries even attempt to give pronunciations for parlerò or parleremo (checking the latter because it has no accent mark so you cannot deduce it)
< 1533790330 43953 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1533790394 590682 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION maybe should assume wob_jonas logreads?

< 1533790450 568276 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i still don't know whether the e in -emo is open or closed. (i assume it's most likely stressed.)
< 1533790493 529013 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i could google for an accented version
< 1533790963 345411 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533790987 410072 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :é according to a google book hit, it seems.
< 1533791241 348145 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533791311 378765 :Effilry!znc@freenode/staff/firefly NICK :FireFly
< 1533791538 490636 :sleepnap!~thomas@69.14.226.9 QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1533791721 89115 :ziddey4!~ziddey@113.22.216.246 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533791822 445270 :ziddey4!~ziddey@113.22.216.246 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533792978 837129 :pheizax!~pheizax@61.158.224.225 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533792978 990733 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533793005 413666 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533793099 680644 :pheizax!~pheizax@61.158.224.225 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533793832 175857 :zgrepc!sid43445@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/sixth/zgrep QUIT :Quit: Updating details, brb
< 1533793857 316546 :^[!sid43445@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/sixth/zgrep JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533794232 396373 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533794495 389460 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533795917 293109 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533796161 274234 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533796444 635275 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wdwugrorzskxuqqj QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1533798000 39920 :timwis!~timwis@197.38.52.120 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533798095 488196 :timwis!~timwis@197.38.52.120 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533798136 852503 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533798809 92444 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gprfswhhmeshtgzw QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1533799534 760733 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533799583 31374 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533799626 724127 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1533799902 250493 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1533800366 661323 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1533800581 492360 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533801173 566740 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
< 1533801236 632487 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1533801650 714355 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533802649 492396 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1533802874 306951 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533802961 187373 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533804018 96703 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1533804146 398090 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533807497 629384 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533807524 812848 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"does somebody read webserials in languages other than English?" => yes, but only one.
< 1533807594 386041 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :David Madore's weblog at http://www.madore.org/~david/weblog/ , who is native bilingual in French and English, and a striving polyglot, and is blogging in both English and French. The best of his entries are the mathematics ones, most of which are in French. (These days, most of his entries overall are French, it used to be more English.)
< 1533807611 923509 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I reply to his French maths entries in English comments, then he replies to me in English.
< 1533807641 931607 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :webcomics => well, David did link to a few French webcomics, but I'm not interested.
< 1533807670 8736 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know only enough French to struggle through most of his entries slowly, and he writes in a very clear prose, and maths is easy to read anyway.
< 1533807725 564571 :James_T18!~James_T@exostic.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533807728 224572 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He also has a few articles about amateur linguistics
< 1533807732 85190 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aarseniiv: ^
< 1533807793 3255 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.madore.org/~david/weblog/lang.html for the latter, and about his experiences in learning foreign languages incl russian and arabic
< 1533807930 649420 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, you asked "webserials"? Then no.
< 1533807940 460756 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :His blog doesn't count as a "webserial" I think.
< 1533808017 663764 :James_T18!~James_T@exostic.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533809631 914379 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-djjbgyvfkvjpjlwv JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533809653 853171 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so you're saying you checked a paper dictionary, and wiktionary is definitely wrong about a common italian word? it happens, I've seen such cases on a wiki. I just found two Hungarian words that supposedly mean circus in English, but I very much doubt it, unless it's an obscure meaning of "circus".
< 1533809704 30539 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: doesn't Italian have some default convention for omitting the stress accent even in dictionaries if it matches a simple default rule?
< 1533809727 339753 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course that doesn't work for a wiki where people might just not add the stress mark, but still.
< 1533809776 998144 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: French wiktionary at least gives pronunciation for almost all French words, including almost all inflections.
< 1533809833 284482 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's almost stupid to ask, but you have considered that you're just wrong about Italian and wiktionary is correct, right?
< 1533809895 973148 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could also try to ask on #wiktionary on freenode, per https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC/Channels .
< 1533810006 585925 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the editors of the French wiktionary are helpful if you ask. they might not start to add stress marks for all italian words all the sudden, but at least they might figure out what's the deal with them. You can ask in https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionnaire:Ambassade , Yann is pretty active and a volunteer there and is fluent in English
< 1533810011 242522 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's also active on IRC.
< 1533811067 137208 :daemon22!~daemon@145.249.232.85 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533811158 522920 :daemon22!~daemon@145.249.232.85 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533811661 706321 :armin23!~armin@41.238.167.54 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533811756 608546 :armin23!~armin@41.238.167.54 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533811783 868464 :walle303!~walle303@121.176.147.10 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533811804 417844 :walle303!~walle303@121.176.147.10 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533814052 98078 :qassim25!~qassim@41.87.12.233 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533814073 703469 :qassim25!~qassim@41.87.12.233 QUIT :K-Lined
< 1533814760 247811 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1533815074 706088 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533815444 293071 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533816250 246217 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Following up the other popular webcomic authors each publishing the book is qwantz with a book to be published later in 2018: http://www.howtoinventeverything.com/
< 1533816301 810801 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :previous webcomics like that include xkcd and SMBC. And that's just the ones that aren't mainly the same webcomic in print form, like Irregular's and Questionable Comic and OOTS.
< 1533817221 343788 :Hijiri24!~Hijiri@105.108.67.247 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533817327 247835 :Hijiri24!~Hijiri@105.108.67.247 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533817365 518172 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1533818580 467477 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: just timed my cubing and I got an average of 2:19. Lots of room to improve :)
< 1533818592 518834 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bad not bad
< 1533818603 150498 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you see the xiaomi rubik's cube?
< 1533818608 345806 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did not!
< 1533818615 62241 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that 2:19 for a 3x3?
< 1533818616 678103 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :look it up!
< 1533818628 553523 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: yeah
< 1533818635 526291 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm probably roughly the same speed I think
< 1533818641 140432 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't tried timing
< 1533818654 479187 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bad guys, not bad
< 1533818660 946226 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really great either :p
< 1533818660 963868 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just timed 5 and took the middle 3 (I believe that's what they do in tournaments)
< 1533818675 997806 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could do that when I get home
< 1533818765 38200 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only approach I know is very slow and step-by-step, really
< 1533818782 433113 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah you must get rid of the steps, steps are bad
< 1533818915 681179 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm JOIN :#esoteric
> 1533819049 607601 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03WhyAreWeHereJustToSuffer 5*  10New user account
> 1533819135 904362 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57288&oldid=57269 5* 03WhyAreWeHereJustToSuffer 5* (+156) 10/* Introductions */
> 1533819251 517150 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Cellular automaton14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57289&oldid=57230 5* 03Ais523 5* (+121) 10/* Relation to esoteric programming */ two more examples
< 1533819605 293469 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1533819761 726902 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-djjbgyvfkvjpjlwv QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1533819926 422090 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: usually middle 8 of 10, but people sometimes do just middle 3 of 5.
< 1533819985 246049 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also there's #rubik which taught me a bit, but mostly I just need to practice a lot and occasionally think about which parts to concentrate on and which parts to relearn to do differently (confusing at first but eventually worth).
< 1533820030 96063 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#rubik is about as off-topic as this channel, the regulars talk about rust and the vim editor.
< 1533820082 252876 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they have a bot to give a random cube scramble, and they sometimes talk about cubing, so it's not off-topic all the time
< 1533820091 963815 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know that sort of thing if you're here a lot
< 1533820266 257199 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-002-203-102-060.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Quit: thunderstorm
< 1533820318 617124 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My next plan is to get better at planning my first moves
< 1533820729 907572 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really need to get my own cube
< 1533820742 322739 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got one at my parents' house and I've otherwise been borrowing one of my coworker's
< 1533820962 818915 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I bought two, and I'm now using the one that I like better.
< 1533820990 399119 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the one named TheValk, but what cube you want is sort of a matter of personal choice.
< 1533821035 310744 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should still buy a good silver mirror some day, as a secondary thing to learn better, solving it blindfolded. (I can already solve the silver mirror, obviously, but too slowly.)
< 1533821056 996726 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the primary will be the 3x3x3 cube two-handed normal solve, as is the most popular.
< 1533821071 798780 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm also bad at it, but every little practice helps.
< 1533821116 427762 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: just buy a cheap speedcube for a tenner or something
< 1533821282 830669 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.cuboss.se/shop/yuxin-little-magic-3x3/  I think it was this one that I got
< 1533821872 389453 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533821954 180681 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Wait, you asked "webserials"? Then no. => :D
< 1533822091 550349 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533824451 294255 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-002-203-102-060.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533824526 664062 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1533824540 179954 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533825301 119068 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aarseniv: I'll rewatch the parts of the video that I recognized wrong. "Ë" => yes, that's definitely a "h", not a "ž", because it doesn't have the middle part. The cursive "ž" is longer, with lots of space for the middle.
< 1533825341 574416 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :scrolling to "L"
< 1533825381 665171 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: want to split the shipping costs?
< 1533825427 675795 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, it's also an "m" in the end at the "Ë" word, with two tent-tops and angle joint at the left bottom to separate it
< 1533825433 233554 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: ...honestly I was just planning on going to Sainsburys and buying an official, non-speed cube
< 1533825465 743949 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :why
< 1533825482 748440 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because learning the algorithms would be better for me than just having a slicker cube
< 1533825491 274675 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or learning better algorithms
< 1533825501 957593 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: you need a speed cube, even if a cheap one.
< 1533825503 957936 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really.
< 1533825527 819853 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't buy the Rubik brand if that's what you mean by "official"
< 1533825541 393494 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask on #rubik if you need help choosing
< 1533825550 629148 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can order good cubes for cheap from ebay, like I did
< 1533825568 423048 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheaper than I can buy the official nice-looking ones in the local game stores
< 1533825595 918122 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Taneb
< 1533825597 48939 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb is not elliott, no matter whom you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of nine genders, one of which is a Czech woman, and above average, not too voluminous, but calm eyebrows. He sometimes invents without noticing it (see: tanebventions).
< 1533825609 583431 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :is elliott still alive?
< 1533825655 232928 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you're in a country where the post and customs offices open every fucking cheap ebay order from the east and makes you pay double its price as import tariff
< 1533825669 258638 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Sweden starting last year, but hopefully it won't stick
< 1533825692 467367 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the situation in Norway or the UK or wherever you guys are
< 1533825709 120322 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :UK I think, so quick order it before Brexit
< 1533825756 513270 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, specifically 75 or 125 SEK, I think, depending on value of the thing you order
< 1533825758 305253 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, we're both in the UK
< 1533825795 409947 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's a "v" in "Lavraziâ", because it looks like a latin b
< 1533825801 921037 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: the non-speedcube cubes are horrible though, so I don't see any reason to get that :p
< 1533825822 115109 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a decent speedcube would probably be both significantly smoother and cheaper
< 1533825838 596503 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: honestly, I find the stiffness relaxing
< 1533825846 863599 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, alright
< 1533825864 153355 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It helps calm me down sometimes to do something that has some resistance with my hands
< 1533825930 86860 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: yes, so get a stiffer speedcube. That's why I chose TheValk. The other one I bought turns too easily, plus its corners are so loose I have multiple times accidentally twisted a corner in place without meaning to.
< 1533825931 832102 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Getting better at solving them is mostly a pleasant side effect
< 1533825961 114364 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It calms me down too.
< 1533825972 177601 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm still very glad I bought a speedcube this year.
< 1533825975 153019 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally
< 1533825983 867975 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm
< 1533825995 525473 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have bought one earlier if I knew they were this good
< 1533826000 995211 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a nice boardgames-and-stuff store in Prague, I wonder if they have speedcubes too
< 1533826021 789864 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're on ebay from east asia with often free shipping
< 1533826029 478856 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know ebay, right?
< 1533826032 927781 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what's the advantage of speedcubes?
< 1533826068 901508 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're more pleasant to work with. won't lock up when you try to turn it, which breaks your concentration a lot
< 1533826088 816121 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :They havea different construction, so that you can rotate a layer without the others being exactly completely in the right position, I think
< 1533826103 329706 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :go talk to #rubik, they'll explain it better
< 1533826108 282520 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what the construction of a traditional cube looks like, but the speedcubes have like a sphere with spokes in the middle
< 1533826129 974618 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are various constructions, including magnetic ones (mine isn't magnetic)
< 1533826144 331017 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: traditional is a sphere with grooves, I think
< 1533826183 902223 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Buy a non-speed cube for your small child above three years who won't swallow the pieces if he takes it off with his tiny fingers, and be prepared that when he does so, his hand will get dirty.
< 1533826216 635705 :Guest79333!~Guest7933@117.0.215.196 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533826224 974005 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But he'll enjoy disassembling and daddy putting it back together, and if he's six year old, then he'll also enjoy assembling and turning it. maybe. every child is different.
< 1533826398 285829 :Guest79333!~Guest7933@117.0.215.196 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533826637 669997 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mean it literally
< 1533826646 942477 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you have a small child
< 1533826666 116838 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying, a toy store cube is a worthless children's toy
< 1533827271 393905 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, the way how the top line of the B and P are disconnected from the vertical parts looks so unusual to me. I don't write any latin letters like that. The only thing it resembles is a greek capital Xi
< 1533827301 632427 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet without the hole, if you extended the vertical lines to reach the top, they'd look entirely normal
< 1533827487 320548 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aarseniv: "Solnce" => indeed. it's a bottom-joined "o", the one I mentioned was strange to me, but with a very short join on o's side, then the required tiny angle join on the "l" for a low connection
< 1533827544 810850 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now let me watch the rest of the letters. And I hope near the end you manage to work in words with examples of the rarer letters with different connections, which will be tricky
< 1533827591 110344 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"T" => standalone top is still the only really strange part
< 1533827669 317070 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn, you're getting impatient here and writing more quickly
< 1533827697 234170 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the top is not just not touching the stiles, but also written afterwards, like an accent? I'll never do that
< 1533827825 385445 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Tenočt..." ... "Tenočtitlan" is that from one of the pre-Columbus south american civilizations?
< 1533827880 423978 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That capital "U" is strange
< 1533827908 271438 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps it's normal, and the way we write capital J and Y in cursive is what's strange
< 1533827944 671806 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Uran" is that another celestial?
< 1533828012 946294 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fudzi"
< 1533828432 981682 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533828521 388222 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hinlopenbrin" I think? it's a bit squashed on the right ... and then you cross out "lop" and write "lop" again
< 1533828530 302934 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, at this point you were getting tired
< 1533828680 238677 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, now here it's getting ugly and harder to read. "Cicik..." "Cicikar" and the first i is squashed
< 1533829493 774938 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to leave, dunno when I can actually watch this video
< 1533829504 435834 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must do more important sutff
< 1533829506 624062 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1533830789 862738 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c193-150-230-73.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533830790 480620 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c193-150-230-73.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Changing host
< 1533830790 498090 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533831186 492886 :piklu28!~piklu@27.76.95.235 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533831226 284057 :piklu28!~piklu@27.76.95.235 QUIT :K-Lined
< 1533831591 569137 :hggdh23!~hggdh@171.7.194.104 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533831633 547110 :hggdh23!~hggdh@171.7.194.104 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1533831733 378253 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell wob_jonas calling me with the other vowel doubled doesn’t give me notifications(
< 1533831733 593164 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1533832216 441054 :kameloso26!~kameloso@218.54.38.151 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533832287 754045 :kameloso26!~kameloso@218.54.38.151 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533832396 228177 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell wob_jonas By the way, the way how the top line of the B and P are disconnected from the vertical parts looks so unusual to me. I don't write any latin letters like that. The only thing it resembles is a greek capital Xi => it could be connected, I think. If you want, definitely do connect. It’s a fancy, and I don’t remember getting bad grades in middle school about not following it strictly, as with many other details
< 1533832396 555991 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1533832436 433748 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I fear that message has been split in half, but I haven’t yet read to the bottom
< 1533832441 307376 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :to see it
< 1533832530 802387 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell wob_jonas damn, you're getting impatient here and writing more quickly => oops I have been afraid it could be so
< 1533832531 83146 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1533832710 525917 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell wob_jonas also, the top is not just not touching the stiles, but also written afterwards, like an accent? I'll never do that => I was unsure there. A friend have said me after he watched that they’ve been taught to write kratka in й (and maybe dots in ё) just after the “base” is written, not after all the “bases” in the word are written
< 1533832710 720176 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1533832750 881914 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell wob_jonas "Tenočtitlan" is that from one of the pre-Columbus south american civilizations? => yeah
< 1533832751 195813 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1533832844 234016 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell wob_jonas That capital "U" is strange => if you mean it needs a hook I’d agree. When I write it nearly cursively, I often add a hook, it looks pleasant
< 1533832844 596076 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1533833004 22338 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell wob_jonas "Uran" is that another celestial? => yes, Uranus (and also uranium, but it’s of course not a place; also curiously uranium is simply уран, but neptunium and plutonium are suddenly нептуний and плутоний, with an -ий suffix homological with -ium)
< 1533833004 270349 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1533833107 264837 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell wob_jonas  "Hinlopenbrin" I think? it's a bit squashed on the right ... and then you cross out "lop" and write "lop" again => the name is read right, it’s a glacier somewhere, also I had decided the first ло is written incorrectly and showed a more correct version, п there for completeness of о form
< 1533833107 547779 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1533833452 585143 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell wob_jonas also an addition to a previous one: <= Or perhaps it's normal, and the way we write capital J and Y in cursive is what's strange => no, actually there’s evidence Russian cursive was based on Latin one and it almost hadn’t evolve organically as Latin had
< 1533833452 917943 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1533833517 555104 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell wob_jonas Цицикар is also right. Sorry it goes harder to the end
< 1533833517 901042 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1533833568 587095 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :also forgive me #esoteric I’ll make a test of lambdabot memory here, too
< 1533833598 188959 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell aarseniv please don’t try to impersonate me, it’s too evident
< 1533833598 439809 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1533833634 180590 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :…and I hoped they wouldn’t save a message for an unregistered nickname user
< 1533834163 956223 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1533834271 258296 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c193-150-230-73.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533834271 533122 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c193-150-230-73.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Changing host
< 1533834271 550632 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533834422 263147 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533834761 605614 :nesthib!~nesthib@218.146.21.109 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533834849 457906 :nesthib!~nesthib@218.146.21.109 QUIT :Killed (Unit193 (Spam is not permitted on freenode.))
< 1533835186 970631 :bcompton!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533836263 991891 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
> 1533836838 569368 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NoRAL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57290&oldid=57284 5* 03DMC 5* (+32) 10/* The Instruction set */
< 1533837003 360544 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1533837045 105394 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NoRAL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57291&oldid=57290 5* 03DMC 5* (+102) 10/* added Truth machine code */
< 1533837484 439917 :liguo!~liguo@186.178.135.190 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533837485 432041 :liguo!~liguo@186.178.135.190 QUIT :K-Lined
< 1533837921 307276 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533838099 923865 :bcompton!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2
< 1533838121 994370 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533838178 609666 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1533838532 760095 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
> 1533838632 383167 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitter14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57292&oldid=54870 5* 03DMC 5* (+158) 10/* Examples */
> 1533838665 318095 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitter14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57293&oldid=57292 5* 03DMC 5* (-1) 10/* Truth Machine */
> 1533838793 519783 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57294&oldid=57279 5* 03DMC 5* (+1) 10/* Alphabet Stew */
> 1533838872 667861 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57295&oldid=57294 5* 03DMC 5* (+46) 10/* Implementations */
> 1533839082 410207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57296&oldid=57295 5* 03DMC 5* (+4) 10/* Implementations */
< 1533839093 251183 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533839713 306506 :sleepnap1!~thomas@69.14.226.9 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533839732 219297 :sleepnap1!~thomas@69.14.226.9 PART :#esoteric
< 1533840192 646754 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533840424 673223 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533840696 225364 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone here familiar with the Jelly golfing language?
< 1533841180 90867 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone definitely was, though I don’t remember who. Try searching the logs
< 1533841250 522168 :heinrich599128!~heinrich5@ppp-124-120-107-163.revip2.asianet.co.th JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533841281 610976 :heinrich599128!~heinrich5@ppp-124-120-107-163.revip2.asianet.co.th QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1533841417 870088 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example => 08:22:46 <wob_jonas> I know about jelly because ais523 programs in it
< 1533841621 921167 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems he’s the only one
< 1533841852 736554 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :it’s November 2017 and still he’s the only one telling useful things about it. ATMunn tried to program in Jelly and failed (in December, 17, the same year)
< 1533841919 99005 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm, i'll try and ambush him when he shows up again then
< 1533841925 155856 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for the info
< 1533842467 526987 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :no prob; ftr I’ve decided to search all 2017 months, and there was only ais523
< 1533843295 983114 :pheizax!~pheizax@37-147-38-173.broadband.corbina.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533843332 460366 :pheizax!~pheizax@37-147-38-173.broadband.corbina.ru QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533844630 928332 :soahccc!~soahccc@5.101.209.122 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533844752 921732 :soahccc!~soahccc@5.101.209.122 QUIT :K-Lined
< 1533845554 178348 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533845634 173343 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: the reason this russian cursive is so unintuitive to me is that the connection between the letters work completely differently. firstly, it's backwards from the simple way I model latin cursive.
< 1533845725 408641 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way I model it, most letters end near the bottom and some end near the top, and all letters can start at the top so for normal letters the connection is an upwards slanting straight line, and for letters ending up, the connection is a little smiling line dipping down whose top is on the line that separates the small size letters from the ascend
< 1533845725 466356 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ers.
< 1533845732 227112 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no downwards connections
< 1533845761 911562 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some letters need uglier variant forms after a letter that ends on the top, and they get squashed, because they'd rather have a connection on the bottom
< 1533845894 248276 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b, o, r, v, w end on the top, a, c, d, e, f, g, h, i, j, k, l, m, n, p, q, s, t, u, y, z end on the bottom, and how x is supposed to be written in normal cursive is a complete
< 1533845940 118547 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e gets a smaller loop after an upper connection, with the top smiley being lengthened so it smoothly forms to bottom of the loop, but a nice large loop for a lower connection.
< 1533846010 243741 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :f and l get a nice large loop for a bottom connection, and since it has an ascender, they still have a large enough loop for an upper connection, but look slightly stranger, especially f where the loop doesn't intersect the cross then
< 1533846083 592027 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :r gets hard to write for a top connection because it's supposed to start with a top frown, so normally after an upper connection you're supposed to make a tilde from the top frown and the bottom frown, but this is only in the style I learned, most people use a completely different looking alternate form
< 1533846194 582963 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i, m, n, u, v, w, y start with a vertical line from top to bottom at full length of a normal length character, and the smiley or upwards slant meet at a sharp angle at the top of that line, so there's always a sharp angle connection at top for those
< 1533846242 177411 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :t is sort of similar, but you connect in the middle of the even longer vertical line, write the ascender of the same line up and a 180 degree turn at top, then straight down to almost the baseline
< 1533846316 453676 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :f, h, k, l start with a looped ascender where you connect to the intersection of the loop, smoothly continuing either the upwards slant or the smiley into the start of the right side of the loop, and then the loop ends like a normal downwards line
< 1533846430 946298 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :after the downwards line, in b, i, t, u, v, w the downwards line doesn't quite reach the baseline, but curve out in a bottom smiley instead; in h, k, m, n, and r the vertical line reaches the baseline vertical and makes a 180 degree turm; f and p go even further and the vertical line reaches the bottom of the descender
< 1533846481 542575 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas in this russian alphabet you're showing me, the connection is decided backwards, it depends on the next letter, not the previous letter, and the connecting lines or angles are different too
< 1533846548 978624 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: English vs French wiktionary is sort of a tie, they're different in different ways
< 1533846641 633389 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have no idea how to write uppercase letters in cursive properly, they're weird
< 1533846656 127031 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they do have these parts that are supposed to be written later in some styles too
< 1533846722 386830 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way I was taught, the cross of the t and the dot of the i and the acute accents and diaresis and double acute are supposed to be added after the whole word, because it breaks the connection, but I never do that. I write a full letter, it's easier even if it's uglier.
< 1533846733 661907 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are variants on many letters
< 1533846801 94730 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, in some, f is supposed to have a pen lift after the end of the downwards line and start the cross in a new line, but the cross isn't written after the word because it's what connects smoothly to the upwards slant for the next letter.
< 1533846817 860994 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cross is also a smiley by the way, whereas the cross of the t is a straight line
< 1533846821 964098 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should try to make images or something
< 1533846851 959142 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sane people don't lift the pen for f, they connect the bottom straight to the hook because that doesn't make it more similar to any letter
< 1533846869 646667 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you have to write a proper descender, or else it would look like a b
< 1533846886 888369 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I write very ugly though in practice, breaking all the rules and using my own crazy stule
< 1533846997 889264 :wob_jonas!b03f1863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll get back and actually watch the video to the end. I'll be interested in the rarer latters and if you manage to show how they connec5t
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< 1533849370 331181 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi again
< 1533849448 474643 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
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< 1533849603 870861 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I should try to make images or something => definitely :)
< 1533849629 618447 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’ve seen some Latin cursive here and there, but I lack a more systematic knowledge
< 1533849705 509397 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi bradcomp)
< 1533850004 222732 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`smlist 477
< 1533850004 937118 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :smlist 477: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy Cale
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< 1533867978 821855 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't believe I dismissed Julia language just because I thought it was just for science work
< 1533868380 915160 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lambda calculus is an inefficient model for computing w.r.t physical implementations, change my view.
< 1533868630 565716 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533869219 384393 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.90.2386&rep=rep1&type=pdf
< 1533869295 704263 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :brief summary? a skim shows this as improving beta reduction.
< 1533869319 481549 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a massively parallel lambda evaluator
< 1533869339 67387 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :this technique can run on a gpu and make e.g. pure lambda calculus arithmetic feasible
< 1533869349 381192 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :great. that doesn't change the fact that lambda calculus is an inefficient model for computing w.r.t physical implementations.
< 1533869354 999101 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't it?
< 1533869366 916187 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, no. imagine you were to design a lambda calculus processor.
< 1533869381 190176 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be like a gpu
< 1533869384 338672 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :LC works over lambda terms, which are term trees.
< 1533869384 356196 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it would be fast
< 1533869388 749582 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a tree
< 1533869401 916928 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are LC terms not trees.
< 1533869422 951493 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you make them graphs as in the paper i linked to, in order to do very fast parallel reductionm
< 1533869447 231418 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't change the fact that term trees are LC's native representation.
< 1533869456 13594 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difference is significant because things like e.g. variable capture, de bruijin indices, shifting all go away
< 1533869458 861489 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it does change that fact
< 1533869463 891297 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does "native representation" mean?
< 1533869488 309910 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :the native representation of `\x. x+1` is a list of characters that you can parse in to whatever
< 1533869498 37922 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because you like parsing it in to a tree doesn't mean it is a tree
< 1533869501 709339 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means that you don't use a graph, you use term trees. nested LC terms.
< 1533869512 689169 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, the trouble with manipulating lambda terms points to the fact that they are not trees
< 1533869512 858994 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :regardless, show me some graph structured memory.
< 1533869542 673924 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at the problems that de bruijin indices were made to solve, and the things you have to do wit shifting and unshifting in order to avoid variable capture
< 1533869550 239981 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I say "physical implementation" I mean the entire processor needs to do one thing and one thing only: reduce lambda expressions.
< 1533869554 459767 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a graph representation, a lambda binder connects directly to the usage sites of the variable
< 1533869572 55847 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: the big picture here is that lambda reduction looks very different from your current mental model
< 1533869575 51862 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order to do that, one needs some kind of tree or graph-structured memory for evaluation.
< 1533869591 7932 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you can do it on a cellular automata-like processor
< 1533869597 828472 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so?
< 1533869600 397813 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :where rewrites are purely local
< 1533869663 530776 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing that I find attractive about TMs is that their state is almost entirely linear, sans the state tables.
< 1533869691 883847 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can be represented as 2D tables. with LC I find that you need tree or graph structured memory, regardless of whether you're doing naive or optimized reductions.
< 1533869712 831137 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :the paper i linked to discusses a formalism called interaction nets
< 1533869729 630364 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, which requires, first and foremost, graph structured memory to reduce arbitrary lambda expressions.
< 1533869736 420837 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a graph rewriting model of computation where rewrites are purely local, and so a large graph can be processed in parallel since portions of the graph are owned independently
< 1533869763 288973 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :the graph is encoded as an array
< 1533869772 960892 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :portions of the array are rewritten in parallel, like a pixel shader
< 1533869779 643520 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :the memory is flat
< 1533869797 777827 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you've now just reduced it to a random access machine with a particular program.
< 1533869803 880283 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not random access
< 1533869807 891161 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i said, rewrites are local
< 1533869815 635651 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine a big array divided in to say, 5 chunks
< 1533869821 848851 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not random access, causality stays inside each chunk
< 1533869871 672783 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so your process is... convert a lambda expression into an interaction net, reduce said interaction net with this giant parallel local rewriting thing.
< 1533869874 791025 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :information propagates across the graph in a wave like a game of life glider for example
< 1533869909 130619 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like an awful long way to go just for LC.
< 1533869932 310649 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/MaiaVictor/parallel_lambda_computer_tests has a small prototype of this scheme
< 1533869946 334489 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :what language?
< 1533869947 648658 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :not mine, but he's also working on something similar
< 1533869951 951688 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one is in javascript
< 1533869964 591301 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, that one is cuda
< 1533869967 81417 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's another in javascript
< 1533869969 711140 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol I was gonna say.
< 1533869972 855310 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :funky lookin' JS.
< 1533870003 568213 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, what exactly goes into the process of translating LC into interaction nets, per se.
< 1533870033 187356 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I guess my point is you're not really reducing LC expressions, you're reducing some compiled form of LC expressions.
< 1533870049 160007 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas I can actually go out and build an LBA.
< 1533870070 115070 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and build the state tables and so on and so forth. without any compilation steps. if I really had the mindfulness to.
< 1533870099 810293 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :at what point does building an optimizing evaluator turn the thing you're evaluating into an entirely different model of computation.
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< 1533870169 132931 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you can say interaction nets are the real model of computation here
< 1533870188 158241 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of my point.
< 1533870196 348021 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if lambda calculus has a thin translation to it, like C does to x86, does it matter?
< 1533870224 757353 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah, it does, because this is a model of computation we're talking about. x86 is pretty far away from a TM.
< 1533870251 367212 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :C isn't a TM, it's another machine model
< 1533870269 594610 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I had built something like Laconic and called it a model of computation, but really it needs to be compiled down to a TM in order to actually carry out the computation, the model of computation isn't Laconic, it's the TM.
< 1533870283 49700 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is you can give a straightforward cost semantics for lambda calculus and realize it on a physical machine
< 1533870284 666611 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I was making a mismatch between x86 and a TM.
< 1533870317 218373 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, models of computation are often abstract
< 1533870319 858019 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but that's not.. my point. you're not really evaluating the lambda calculus. you're evaluating instances of interaction nets.
< 1533870339 43337 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the claim "LC is an efficient model of computation w.r.t physical implementation" is pretty bogus.
< 1533870345 674518 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we're going to use the word model here, it doesn't matter what it really runs on, what matters is whether you're able to give a cost semantics for expressions
< 1533870376 59390 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd argue the opposite, as actually implementing models does help.
< 1533870405 28307 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kind of why I hate the name "lisp machine", too.
< 1533870419 776262 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, it's not really a lisp machine. it's a random access machine with a lisp interface.
< 1533870437 645614 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you found the JS snippet yet? really curious because that CUDA looked interesting.
< 1533870459 79872 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/MaiaVictor/LPU
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< 1533870522 632815 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh. okay.
< 1533870549 275671 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :wish it was a little more well commented but I doubt this is for documentation purposes.
< 1533870566 8279 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can check the github issues thread linked for a back and forth discussing it
< 1533870572 635650 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Explanation" in the README
< 1533870596 97491 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh boy it links to chorasimilarity.
< 1533870608 806687 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you get the idea you don't really need the js, and anyway he does it naively so you'd need to change it to realize the parallelism
< 1533870654 287946 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing to keep in mind is that this is using the good version of cellular automata, not the kind that's popular
< 1533870682 386221 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :the usual cellular automata are too hard to build anything with because the rules are like [A B C] -> B
< 1533870697 893964 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :the kind used here is a block cellular automata where rules are like [A B C] -> [A B C]
< 1533870707 329490 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what're the rules for reducing interaction nets, and how do LC expressions compile to them?
< 1533870725 276623 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :still looking through this, but picking the concept apart from a github issue is...
< 1533870731 824355 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really all that fun.
< 1533870762 272081 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/e24d/ad59709fef715e512a9caebd781d0b029075.pdf the first few sections of this are good to explain it
< 1533870781 627227 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can do it in the chat but it's a bit involved and i can't draw diagrams
< 1533870794 452458 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, I figured.
< 1533870811 780034 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh. why not just a concise explanation.
< 1533870815 128182 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine a node in a graph as a big ball with little pegs on it
< 1533870820 333441 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. ports.
< 1533870822 856227 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know that "bop it" game?
< 1533870827 125011 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, so there's one special port
< 1533870836 657809 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :when two nodes touch on this port they interact
< 1533870853 855110 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :this keeps all interaction local, meaning you can divide up memory among independent processors
< 1533870859 917787 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, define interact.
< 1533870865 18584 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know that node can't be interacting with anyone else at the same time
< 1533870871 641730 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, two nodes are touching on their "principal" port
< 1533870876 443653 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have other ports, say two others
< 1533870882 410086 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :those ports are also connected to nodes
< 1533870886 977560 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :do these ports represent bound variables.
< 1533870889 631041 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and unbound ones.
< 1533870899 999935 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :during an "interaction", you can take ownership of all of those ports and rewire them as you please
< 1533870921 16643 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can make new nodes with new connections, as long as the total "interface" of connections remains the same
< 1533870930 228928 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, they don't
< 1533870952 920329 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay.. can you show me some computations? maybe something as simple as adding two numbers?
< 1533870967 235361 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :one way to do it is to have a node representing a lambda, with a principal port for interaction, another port that connects to each usage of the variable, and another port connecting to the lambda's body
< 1533870985 98188 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.112.2822&rep=rep1&type=pdf
< 1533870987 814385 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :here, this one is easy
< 1533870999 974391 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :that does cons-lists, basic arithmetic etc
< 1533871032 899249 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. so are nodes typed?
< 1533871041 545421 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah nvm.
< 1533871049 534637 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like lambda calculus, you can develop typed and untyped formalisms
< 1533871051 214203 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :they "kind of are" by their shape, it looks.
< 1533871069 497635 :u0_a101!~u0_a101@c-73-118-33-160.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533871071 634604 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, I'll take a look at this and get back to you.
< 1533871092 356510 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like an interesting formalism, I'd like to pick your brain about how you'd do it in a flat memory space.
< 1533871234 585808 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk for like 10.
< 1533871629 491195 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533872699 526663 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wob_jonas> oerjan: so you're saying you checked a paper dictionary, and wiktionary is definitely wrong about a common italian word? <-- technically i knew parlerò was wrong from wikipedia's phonology article (ò is always open), but the scanned paper one in google books had other examples like parlerèbbe (where the accent is _not_ usually written, and means it's open so wiktionary gets that too wrong)
< 1533872769 129772 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although parlerebbe is a bit fishy, there are more google hits for parlerébbe...
< 1533872794 470779 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(only a handful of each though.)
< 1533872813 76031 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although it might include OCR errors, seeing as there are google books hits.)
< 1533872886 333965 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this book btw https://books.google.no/books?id=Oox0b3OPJIwC&pg=PA177&lpg=PA177&dq=parler%C3%A9mo&source=bl&ots=RQmfWUInLy&sig=zTvv_OpILl6_vCc5z3DqEEAYo6w&hl=no&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjs5Y7Ex-HcAhXR0aYKHcLvA8IQ6AEwBnoECAMQAQ#v=onepage&q=parler%C3%A9mo&f=true
< 1533872932 424160 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i searched for parlerémo first, which wiktionary actually gets right)
< 1533873009 854221 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :<wob_jonas> oerjan: doesn't Italian have some default convention for omitting the stress accent even in dictionaries if it matches a simple default rule? <-- plausible, it would probably be when it's the second last syllable and not e or o.
< 1533873049 692880 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, i think that would be a bad idea for wiktionary because then you wouldn't know if the editor has forgotten to add the info or not
< 1533873388 929234 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :back.
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< 1533873804 630411 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkapastel: okay. starting to see the applications of this. now how exactly would I implement these rewriting rules. would I just have an array of nodes with a set of ports linked to other nodes?
< 1533873922 857046 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :a node has a tag and let's say 3 ports max
< 1533873939 161610 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :for each port, you need to know what node it's connected to, and also what port on that node
< 1533873962 246685 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :if two nodes are connected on their principal ports (let's say port 0), they interact
< 1533873976 547671 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, the trick about doing this in parallel
< 1533873991 326407 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :is to make nodes only interact with adjacent nodes in this array
< 1533874005 900825 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay.. so that involves some shuffling, I assume.
< 1533874010 93202 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're familiar with like, a convolution, or an IR filter, you can scan down the array in blocks in parallel
< 1533874025 981689 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd tile up the whole array evenly in to independent chunks
< 1533874029 286413 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's say 4 nodes per chunk
< 1533874043 48854 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :if two nodes are adjacent and connected by principal ports, you do the rewrite rule given by their tags
< 1533874054 58472 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you saw wit e.g. append and cons
< 1533874068 774863 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. but, okay, let's step back and not assume I want parallel evaluation.
< 1533874070 507587 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they're not connected, then they need to move around and find the thing they are connected to
< 1533874075 620512 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1533874096 191162 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you can just have a big array of nodes
< 1533874097 908475 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I have an array of nodes. each node has a finite number of ports at max.
< 1533874112 554668 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct Node { tag int, fstId int, fstPort int, sndId int, sndPort int, auxId int, auxPort int }
< 1533874117 71862 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example
< 1533874121 58793 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's say I have a rule that if two X tagged nodes are connecd to eachother, they get erased.
< 1533874137 612228 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what happens is, you have an array of pairs of node IDs
< 1533874149 57259 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :which represent the nodes you have found that are connected by their principal ports
< 1533874154 89849 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay.
< 1533874158 790628 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have an API that connects two nodes
< 1533874166 489770 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :like connect(fstId, fstPort, sndId, sndPort)
< 1533874173 914817 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :if fstPort == 0 and sndPort == 0, then they go in that array
< 1533874178 193691 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they're gonna interact
< 1533874182 386703 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotcha.
< 1533874199 669508 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :at each "tick", you have however many pairs in that array
< 1533874213 752878 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :the size of that array is the "available parallelism" which is an interesting metric that lets you measure cost
< 1533874226 541749 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway you go through the array and do the rule for each pair
< 1533874228 509102 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, "here's how many things are going to interact at this step."
< 1533874234 151072 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the rule will involve more calls to `connect()`
< 1533874241 591626 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :which will probably put more things in the array
< 1533874247 139801 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you see how it keeps going
< 1533874294 823719 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, let's say I have the cons/append example.
< 1533874306 811752 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :all I'd have to say is "take these two nodes, they're connected by their principal ports."
< 1533874342 156129 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :append's first port is the principal, second is i guess v, then w
< 1533874353 279018 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :cons have a principal, and x and u
< 1533874359 859617 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :"rewrite it such that append's port 1 (the top port) is now linked to cons's port 2."
< 1533874367 201639 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :so when they connect by principal, you own all of those places in the array
< 1533874367 983646 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so on and so on for all ports in that rule.
< 1533874373 250524 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can rewrite them
< 1533874385 538547 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you", i mean the independent process responsible for rewriting that pair
< 1533874406 467888 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to focus on how you'd just step by step rewrite this. what your lhs and rhs of a given rule looks like in memory.
< 1533874438 71764 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :cons' u port is a member of that node struct
< 1533874444 542974 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :the id it's connect to is append's id
< 1533874454 684241 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :the port it's connected to is the number of append's w port
< 1533874462 12362 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, adding and removing nodes.
< 1533874484 1881 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :one sec.
< 1533874484 107744 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :the really simple way is to just have a free list of IDs
< 1533874535 442608 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'd have some kind of node like "drop" or "erase" in that pdf, where part of the rule is returning the id of the node you interact with to the free list
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< 1533874948 774641 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkapastel: back. so, adding and removing nodes. if I said you could only specify a rule using structure initialization syntax in C, what would you give me for cons/append's rule.
< 1533875017 989695 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the rules are mutating integers in an array
< 1533875047 683025 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a bunch of stuff like `graph.node[fst].ports[2][1] = graph.node[snd].ports[0][2]` or whatever
< 1533875051 834463 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. but you need to store your lhs and rhs in some kind of format.
< 1533875063 994632 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what would that look like.
< 1533875066 466584 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine 5 assignments like that one stacked on top of each other
< 1533875069 870277 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a function
> 1533875082 352160 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hash function14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=57297 5* 03A 5* (+237) 10I can't explain that...
< 1533875086 762132 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have a 2d matrix where row and columns are node tags
< 1533875096 711196 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the element inside the matrix is a function pointer implementing the rewrite rule
> 1533875103 224745 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hash function14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57298&oldid=57297 5* 03A 5* (+132) 10
< 1533875106 259186 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the body is a bunch of assignments like the one i just wrote
> 1533875117 913551 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hash function14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57299&oldid=57298 5* 03A 5* (-132) 10
< 1533875147 792602 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, new plan. how would your rewrite rules look textually.
< 1533875160 789562 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :was that description not clear? :S
< 1533875198 87964 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :the matrix lets you map a pair of ints to a function pointer, the body is just assignments that shuffle around the node ports like the one i wrote
< 1533875199 857069 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it really wasn't. your rules are your code that manipulates this graph structure, yeah? so you need a rule format to load into your interpreter, so you can use those rules to rewrite the interaction net.
< 1533875210 907759 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you don't need to load any rules
< 1533875214 971627 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :????
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< 1533875223 400870 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interpreter is the rules
< 1533875228 526047 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you "load" anything in to it?
< 1533875242 362668 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :...how else would I write what it means to append something to a list.
< 1533875243 299093 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :does python "load" the python bytecode format, as if it could run anything else?
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< 1533875263 912854 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the in-memory representation of that append rule? can you give me a straight answer?
< 1533875268 564595 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just wrote it
< 1533875272 551347 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wrote some C code.
< 1533875273 949520 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :the assignment above
< 1533875285 712340 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bunch of those, shuffling the correct ports from the diagram
< 1533875334 746911 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the premise that I'm getting from that document I linked is that I can write rules, lhs and rhs, to rewrite portions of an interaction net. you follow?
< 1533875341 672100 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/I linked/you linked
< 1533875352 828435 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :hold on, i've written it in go
< 1533875355 32508 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :a while back
< 1533875357 604127 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you read that?
< 1533875361 975691 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just follow me here.
< 1533875375 771068 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can write rules like that, yeah? they aren't hard-coded.
< 1533875384 165402 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :why wouldn't you hard code them
< 1533875392 174836 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :does python load rules for other languages very often
< 1533875396 932168 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :this isn't python.
< 1533875402 414989 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, whatever language it is
< 1533875407 212493 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :think about what you're trying to do
< 1533875415 872669 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want to write some kind of meta-interpreter for ANY set of rules
< 1533875416 966936 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmao, so you just hard code the rules you want.
< 1533875417 173591 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why??
< 1533875426 442510 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, because interaction nets are supposed to be general.
< 1533875427 953619 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :you make the rules that correspond to your language
< 1533875434 849816 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like writing a bytecode interpreter for one lang
< 1533875441 917915 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmao.
< 1533875445 935215 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you ever want to make a "general" bytecode vm framework
< 1533875449 975573 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, have fun with your interaction nets.
< 1533875451 694445 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean you can, but it's harder
< 1533875464 476698 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :see it's not hard to write a rule-based interpreter.
< 1533875475 185035 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you load some rules, those rules mutate state.
< 1533875482 270504 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, so what's the problem
< 1533875497 132166 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you hard-code your rules. I'm asking you to show me what it might look like if you didn't.
< 1533875518 936386 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use a dynamic language and just load more code whenever
< 1533875523 993720 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah nvm lmao.
< 1533875534 141444 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're doing it the hard way idgi
< 1533875551 316325 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's going to lead to a lot of nasty code for parsing some sad little rule format
< 1533875552 565636 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that the hard way when the document you linked pretty much goes over writing rules for rewriting interaction nets.
< 1533875565 633270 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you write the rules, in whatever implementation lang you've chosen
< 1533875589 590395 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, imagine the paper wasn't about interaction nets
< 1533875592 647487 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be about term rewriting
< 1533875600 718872 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :ONE of the examples would be this weird thing called "the lambda calculus"
< 1533875605 849857 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :do I hard-code state tables for TMs when writing a TM interpreter? no, because that'd be fucking dumb.
< 1533875607 640852 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lambda calculus is one particular term rewriting system
< 1533875614 264511 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I load state tables from a file so I can simulate any arbitrary TM.
< 1533875626 662958 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if nobody's done that for interaction nets then I'd ask why.
< 1533875630 428227 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also just write other state tables in your lang and use things like high order functions to swap them out
< 1533875634 816585 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :people have done it
< 1533875655 502990 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing i was describing was not going in that direction at all, is where the confusion came from i guess
< 1533875661 578655 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1533875675 329403 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, I see where you were headed, but if I was just going to hard-code rules I might as well go write a lisp interpreter.
< 1533875698 326402 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to see what the more general form would look like, where you could specify "here's what appending looks like."
< 1533875709 905707 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of "here's this nice little language that rides on top of interaction nets but really doesn't need to."
< 1533875723 56854 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://bitbucket.org/inarch/ia2d
< 1533875759 270422 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :a notation for writing general rewrite rules
< 1533875764 231092 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :> We write the rule for an active pair between nodes alpha and beta as alpha(x_1, ..., x_n) >< beta(y_1, ..., y_m) => [N],
< 1533875766 579305 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : <hint>:1:84: error: parse error on input ‘,’
< 1533875782 180788 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see.
< 1533875783 155904 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a file with a bunch of expressions like that and then load it
< 1533875805 785878 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do natural numbers and lists later in that readme
< 1533875826 816967 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :see that's what I was kind of looking for. you'd need variable matching and binding to actually do that.
< 1533875843 589566 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :it all compiles down to what i was talking about earlier though
< 1533875854 918127 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would have a universal interaction net that runs this stuff
< 1533875860 266416 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but it still uses things like variables to link up arbitrary ports.
< 1533875866 33833 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't
< 1533875891 597863 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have an interaction net as a compilation target for those rule expressions
< 1533875893 652011 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what they do
< 1533875914 348567 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :<xkapastel> anyone here familiar with the Jelly golfing language? <-- i've not learned it, but there's a jelly channel on stackexchange chat
< 1533875924 993698 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh stackexchange has a chat?
< 1533875938 597946 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :how exactly do you construct append's rule, then. just explicitly refer to certain ports?
< 1533875940 400533 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah it does.
< 1533875944 485347 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone mentioned the "jelly chat" on their github issues but i didn't know where it was
< 1533875967 400085 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: let's say we have a minimal interaction net called the "inteaction combinators"
< 1533875980 851668 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're gonna...gasp...hardcode those rules
< 1533875984 970700 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric ::V
< 1533875988 247503 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :then read those expressions and compile them to it
< 1533876004 187319 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh.
< 1533876039 836439 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a fan of turing machines, you know you can have one that simulates any other
< 1533876047 604504 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup.
< 1533876056 506872 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not a fan of TMs per se.. maybe string rewriting systems.)
< 1533876078 723065 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :mainly due to movement of large regions of symbols.
< 1533876389 804501 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/info/32533/jelly although you need some SE rep to get on there
< 1533876436 210428 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not extremely active
< 1533876483 841794 :JStoker20!~JStoker@184.22.109.134 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533876519 982181 :u0_a101!~u0_a101@c-73-118-33-160.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :snark exchange
< 1533876752 374889 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i can't even chat
< 1533876756 22258 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekjyddgeioxofbm PRIVMSG #esoteric :f
< 1533876801 258566 :JStoker20!~JStoker@184.22.109.134 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533877110 503689 :u0_a101!~u0_a101@c-73-118-33-160.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"just answer some questions and you'll have enough rep in no time!"
< 1533878700 13227 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may have to be PPCG rep specifically, i'm not sure
< 1533878909 126316 :u0_a101!~u0_a101@c-73-118-33-160.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :opps, i meant "just answer some questions on our low traffic site, where nobody votes, and you'll have enough rep eventually"
< 1533878927 213976 :u0_a101!~u0_a101@c-73-118-33-160.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbf, PCG is not really low traffic
< 1533878929 793463 :u0_a101!~u0_a101@c-73-118-33-160.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still
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< 1533881974 618433 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533883844 181245 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the faq i suspect it's not actually just PPCG rep, it's either total SE rep or the highest rep on any SE site.
< 1533884032 669470 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also it's just 20)
< 1533884069 52403 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically you need two upvotes.
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> 1533887495 341369 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57300&oldid=57257 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (+0) 10Fixed error in syntax for Truth Machine
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> 1533887700 866606 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57301&oldid=57300 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (-1) 10Actually fixed syntax, Confused it for a while loop.
> 1533887763 759915 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57302&oldid=57296 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (-2) 10/* Surtic */ Updated version with proper syntax.
> 1533888086 643764 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57303&oldid=57301 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (+0) 10/* Truth-machine */ Ok seriously I triple-checked, This is perfect.
> 1533888140 877520 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57304&oldid=57302 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (+0) 10/* Surtic */ Triple-Checked, Definitely no syntax errors in this.
> 1533891136 848868 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57305&oldid=57303 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (+18) 10Added a limit for sake of limitations.
> 1533891438 188655 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57306&oldid=57305 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (-18) 10/* C */ Nevermind on the limitation
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< 1533892456 836785 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: will we be getting an olist today twh
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< 1533893808 303979 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The mercurial ui is so terrible :P (seriously though, why does  hg pull -u  not do an update when nothing was pulled?)
< 1533893894 631581 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This comes up fairly frequently in my usage... I  hg pull -u  and it refuses to update because some local file is modified ... so I fix that and then I rerun the failing command.)
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< 1533906965 346882 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1134
< 1533906966 107951 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1134: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
< 1533907001 502093 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, yes
< 1533907612 888384 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900:8319:87ab:f00:d5de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533908810 458954 :trqx14!~trqx@221.159.97.161 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533908828 536159 :trqx14!~trqx@221.159.97.161 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533910566 210640 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533911000 432697 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533911265 462376 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1533911295 797129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57307&oldid=57021 5* 03Wright 5* (-237) 10Deleted irrelevant example (also the sentence structure in general was just bugging me)
< 1533911585 767163 :ecks4!~ecks@220.123.213.230 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533911699 940886 :ecks4!~ecks@220.123.213.230 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1533912806 309994 :heroux_!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-nkcufugetzortvkc QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1533912824 228200 :heroux_!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-qkvqhuvxwlpvrsal JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533914410 332312 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533915861 180130 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533916277 900572 :ilbelkyr15!~ilbelkyr@94.4.40.208 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533916432 37038 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://xkcd.com/2031/
< 1533916539 669566 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1533916877 402790 :rodarmor22!~rodarmor@218.67.16.223 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533916877 727127 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1533916912 162337 :rodarmor22!~rodarmor@218.67.16.223 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533916970 605098 :n0nada17!~n0nada@184.170.37.235 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533917013 387808 :n0nada17!~n0nada@184.170.37.235 QUIT :K-Lined
< 1533917122 200424 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1533917451 911696 :Globalirc21!~Globalirc@82.102.245.115 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533917451 976001 :Globalirc21!~Globalirc@82.102.245.115 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1533917820 934553 :Reincarnate25!~Reincarna@121.145.88.108 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533917831 370584 :Reincarnate25!~Reincarna@121.145.88.108 QUIT :Killed (Unit193 (Spam is not permitted on freenode.))
< 1533917994 685007 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533918085 682914 :calcul0n1!~calcul0n@105.102.202.116 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533918101 630656 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of lol stuff in the recent ones there
< 1533918112 845531 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://xkcd.com/2016/
< 1533918143 146269 :calcul0n1!~calcul0n@105.102.202.116 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533918256 977365 :cyberzeus2!~cyberzeus@115.167.28.91 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533918299 421508 :cyberzeus2!~cyberzeus@115.167.28.91 QUIT :K-Lined
< 1533919589 401124 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533919615 411442 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Client Quit
< 1533919629 399483 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533919993 906628 :myth0d4!~myth0d@72.252.195.21 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533920785 619538 :norkle12!~norkle@202.44.249.225 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533921541 814872 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533922840 67728 :MEPB!~MEPB@115.84.91.218 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533922848 775958 :MEPB!~MEPB@115.84.91.218 QUIT :K-Lined
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< 1533925064 10403 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a such thing as tsumeshogi-FEN?
< 1533925200 3894 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533925731 196820 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533926213 762403 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533926285 831394 :rain2!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes seesm to be SFEN
< 1533928399 801231 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cizxpsdyancyzkgt PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can i ask you a few questions about the jelly golfing language? specifically about the chain rules
< 1533928429 678274 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkapastel: you can try, but I'm not that comfortable with the chain rules
< 1533928444 675319 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I normally have to reread the tutorial to try to figure it out, in complex cases
< 1533928454 586241 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cizxpsdyancyzkgt PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first chain pattern for monadic chains, `+ × 1 ... 	(v+ω)×1*`
< 1533928469 260431 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cizxpsdyancyzkgt PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't this follow from the rules for `+` and `+ 1`?
< 1533928472 607516 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cizxpsdyancyzkgt PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see why it's needed
< 1533928490 976791 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cizxpsdyancyzkgt PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you didn't have it, you would chop off `+`, then chop off `x 1` and it would be the same (v+w)*1
< 1533928513 360396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't surprise me if some of the rules were redundant
< 1533928554 987844 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cizxpsdyancyzkgt PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i'm wondering why dyadic chains don't have a rule for `+ F`, is that just because dennis didn't think it was used or becuase it messes something up?
< 1533928584 801046 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cizxpsdyancyzkgt PRIVMSG #esoteric :for dyadic chains i see why that first rule would lead to a different value than applying rules for `+` and `+ 1`
< 1533928592 181556 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1533928608 912855 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cizxpsdyancyzkgt PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you'd match `+ *` first
< 1533928640 841451 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkapastel: dyad chains tend to be awkward to use, I think the original intention was to do it APL-style and use patterns with { and } to do complex things
< 1533928645 817211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that uses so many bytes :-(
< 1533928725 647051 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cizxpsdyancyzkgt PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do really like this design though, and i appreciate how it's explained so clearly, as opposed to APL/K which seem to pride themselves on being cryptic
< 1533928758 308203 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general I find any working with dyad chains in Jelly is painful, and prefer to use monadic chains for basically everything
< 1533928825 765766 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533929268 708788 :doaks!~doaks@184.170.38.250 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533929270 335024 :doaks!~doaks@184.170.38.250 QUIT :K-Lined
< 1533930648 337106 :ffernand22!~ffernand@186.178.135.47 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533930657 277980 :ffernand22!~ffernand@186.178.135.47 QUIT :K-Lined
< 1533931770 857269 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
> 1533931794 745376 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Arrows14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57308&oldid=53838 5* 03HereToAnnoy 5* (-4) 10Fixed spacing (I think; I really need a monospace font for this) + Ideas cat
> 1533933896 947164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck implementations14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57309&oldid=57058 5* 03Wright 5* (+625) 10Added entries
< 1533935116 235682 :dindon29!~dindon@95.233.11.33 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533935434 912238 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@213.202.60.99 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1533935744 631940 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533936715 586059 :OwenBarfield!~OwenBarfi@109.110.37.12 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533936739 703160 :OwenBarfield!~OwenBarfi@109.110.37.12 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1533937145 414565 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533937484 203291 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533937495 131732 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xiujlkpmmzyvwrkw JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533938094 710744 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533938336 145398 :lostnord!~lostnord@6.red-2-137-143.dynamicip.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533938358 637997 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1533939958 605035 :Guest59621!~mark-otar@78.152.193.200 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533939979 523537 :Guest59621!~mark-otar@78.152.193.200 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533940365 916673 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533941494 121317 :Richard_Cavell!~Richard_C@27.73.90.241 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533941496 619180 :Richard_Cavell!~Richard_C@27.73.90.241 QUIT :K-Lined
< 1533941565 267626 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533942412 534268 :cronic!~cronic@179.124.243.45 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533942503 688582 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533942604 773720 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533942681 319407 :cronic!~cronic@179.124.243.45 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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< 1533942742 397010 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533942747 668198 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533944391 566997 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: nostril.
< 1533944391 929578 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: what's good about it, but i don't really have much to do
< 1533944495 62220 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: nostrils are good, but you can still eat pizza.
< 1533944495 197991 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: and i don't have to.
< 1533944503 272968 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: but you can.
< 1533944503 522778 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: so there are no answers anywhere, i guess. bummer
< 1533944519 429173 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is more than frightened about fungot's sentience

< 1533945458 328619 :imode1!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533945515 393411 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533945769 909905 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533945771 338796 :imode1!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533945790 766645 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533945801 292903 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533946074 767110 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1533946207 891129 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: YEOOIIOOIOA
< 1533946208 33041 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: where? i only see 5
< 1533946233 18599 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: there's more
< 1533946233 308215 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: ok then... seems udage is turing tarpit. power and expressiveness are independent.
< 1533946406 756506 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :YEOOIIOOIOA???
< 1533946518 631985 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1533946757 167773 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533948797 906943 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cizxpsdyancyzkgt QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1533948933 98303 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would I implement seeking for a specific ecliptic longitude of a body (or of a Arabic Part)?
< 1533949007 583391 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1533949146 77811 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2
< 1533949192 251890 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rxlprjpoaecymjze JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533949250 406634 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533949667 81728 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Arabic parts have three parameters (called the "personal-point", "significator", and "trigger"). Some use rulers, lords, houses, constants, dispositors, and other Arabic parts, as their parameters. I do not intend to implement any other than the bodies that swe_calc() can calculate, as well as the Asc, MC, and constants 0 Aries and 0 Libra. Note that if the "personal-point" is held constant, you are effectively seeking an aspect.)
< 1533949784 469258 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, many use reversals, and some use stranger things such as "Lord of New or Full Moon Prior to Birth", "Cusp of House Uranus Occupies", "Use Jupiter if Saturn is combust", "Asc + Moon - (Sun + 144 + Pi)", etc. I don't know what most of these mean, and I also don't care and do not intend to implement any of these things.)
< 1533950103 376009 :Stryyker12!~Stryyker@180.68.70.197 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533950118 505752 :Stryyker12!~Stryyker@180.68.70.197 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533950727 973779 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533950800 433119 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533951539 913828 :benoliver99925!~benoliver@14.63.122.35 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533951592 5031 :benoliver99925!~benoliver@14.63.122.35 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1533951851 351769 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: IMPORT CHICKEN
< 1533952242 728845 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533952547 662966 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1533953304 500060 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like W3C's "Secure Contexts".  I read a definition it is one of the four:  * An origin using an authenticated scheme (https: or wss:)  * An origin on the local computer using IP addresses in 127/8 (IPv4) or ::1/128 (IPv6)  * An origin on the local computer using a scheme that the browser considers authenticated (file: and possibly packaged browser extensions)  * An origin that the user has "configured as a trustworthy origin", through a us
< 1533953328 521623 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :My own opinion is that only the last one should be considered as a trustworthy origin and the others should not be.
> 1533954434 708268 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Arrows14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57310&oldid=57308 5* 03HereToAnnoy 5* (+1338) 10Langauge update (also, is there a grid table or do I have to make really long wikitables every time a program is written in this?)
> 1533954462 200070 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Arrows14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57311&oldid=57310 5* 03HereToAnnoy 5* (+13) 10everytime i finish something
< 1533955565 594118 :u0_a101!~u0_a101@c-73-118-33-160.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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< 1533955815 928141 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533955889 874923 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533959183 991421 :nero7!~nero@node-4c2.pool-125-25.dynamic.totbb.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533959208 563725 :nero7!~nero@node-4c2.pool-125-25.dynamic.totbb.net QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1533960327 206944 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit
< 1533960523 895174 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900:8319:87ab:f00:d5de PART :#esoteric
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< 1533962570 875322 :Nakato!~Nakato@pl40180.ag0304.nttpc.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533962589 681028 :Nakato!~Nakato@pl40180.ag0304.nttpc.ne.jp NICK :Guest27715
< 1533962671 561806 :Guest27715!~Nakato@pl40180.ag0304.nttpc.ne.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533965229 923502 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533965357 661981 :ProClifo!~ProClifo@216.244.221.183 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533965633 465149 :ProClifo!~ProClifo@216.244.221.183 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1533966297 483617 :bads!~bads@187.69.117.71 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533966321 744856 :bads!~bads@187.69.117.71 NICK :Guest55883
< 1533966401 382376 :Guest55883!~bads@187.69.117.71 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533969268 778517 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xiujlkpmmzyvwrkw QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1533969455 579681 :jeggott0!~jeggott@i121-116-173-114.s41.a002.ap.plala.or.jp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533969522 293845 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1533969793 458364 :u0_a101!~u0_a101@c-73-118-33-160.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :any thoughts on baseline syntax needed for a relatively useful out-of-the-box language? I'm thinking var declaration/assignment, arithmetic ops, conditional evaluation, some kind of collection, functions, parens for eval order...
< 1533969801 272582 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533969823 660653 :u0_a101!~u0_a101@c-73-118-33-160.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :braces for block scope, function bodies, loops, conditional eval
< 1533969851 946935 :u0_a101!~u0_a101@c-73-118-33-160.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :comparison ops
< 1533969910 17554 :u0_a101!~u0_a101@c-73-118-33-160.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :datatypes maybe bool, number, string, collection, function
< 1533969998 7690 :u0_a101!~u0_a101@c-73-118-33-160.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :any of that unneccessary? anything important missing?
< 1533970142 648947 :u0_a101!~u0_a101@c-73-118-33-160.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm shooting for something reasonably expressive and multi-paradigm, pleasant to use, not something crazy like bf
< 1533970445 768562 :u0_a101!~u0_a101@c-73-118-33-160.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but at the same time as minimal as it can be, for example one kind of loop should be enough (probably a while loop), and one kind of collection (maybe like lua's table?)
< 1533971644 701091 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1533971696 491806 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533972197 998772 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rxlprjpoaecymjze QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1533972742 968457 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-edmzjxptdeqdxdgx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533973109 601094 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533973716 646618 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you should need macros and byte arrays. And then is probably good enough I suppose
< 1533973739 906715 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might not need boolean type though, but perhaps can help to have null
< 1533975211 978284 :u0_a101!~u0_a101@c-73-118-33-160.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: are you thinking preprocessor macros, or something else?
< 1533975258 163829 :u0_a101!~u0_a101@c-73-118-33-160.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :null is a good idea, can probably do away with booleans, null will be falsey and everything else truthy
< 1533975513 747647 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that can work. Null is false and everything else can be true. About macros, I thought they could be either preprocessor macros or perhaps dynamic macros (depending on how the rest of the programming language is working); you don't need both
< 1533975906 928542 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net QUIT :Quit: the creeping crawling chaos will return.
< 1533975924 697686 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe you though that one kind of loop will be enough (probably a while loop), and one kind of collection. Possibly the suitable flow-controls can be: if/else, while, goto, and return; nothing else is needed I think. I don't know what is you think though; you can figure out what you like to do it.
< 1533976094 909958 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1533976128 76585 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533976438 934593 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1533976834 51531 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533976895 233540 :DrJ23!~DrJ@i210-161-191-59.s02.a015.ap.plala.or.jp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533976953 378752 :DrJ23!~DrJ@i210-161-191-59.s02.a015.ap.plala.or.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533977912 271399 :u0_a101!~u0_a101@c-73-118-33-160.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i think you're right... not sure if goto is needed, but probably either goto or break/continue
< 1533977936 141963 :u0_a101!~u0_a101@c-73-118-33-160.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be a way to break out of loops without return
< 1533978000 451204 :u0_a101!~u0_a101@c-73-118-33-160.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes me wonder if loops are really necessary, maybe something like a self-recursive function instead 
< 1533978070 668536 :GeekDude!~G33kDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1533978235 445483 :GeekDude!~G33kDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533978313 932154 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps, but while and goto (and if/else and return) can make it convenient to program, even though they are not strictly needed.
< 1533978390 824349 :u0_a101!~u0_a101@c-73-118-33-160.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, for sure
< 1533978529 775712 :u0_a101!~u0_a101@c-73-118-33-160.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sent you a link :)
< 1533978620 735468 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533978701 303493 :Guest74037!~realz@77.107.45.40 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533978982 878077 :Guest74037!~realz@77.107.45.40 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1533979616 419856 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533980343 567834 :jwhisnant21!~jwhisnant@219.144.223.176 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533980376 679092 :jwhisnant21!~jwhisnant@219.144.223.176 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1533980517 892783 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-edmzjxptdeqdxdgx QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1533980769 768290 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nstxodqgrnmcclzs JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533981110 991247 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1533981236 933400 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533981854 5657 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533981898 590133 :GeekDude!~G33kDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1533981984 904845 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533982049 538750 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533982065 675061 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533982067 406223 :GeekDude!~G33kDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533982115 631786 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1533983477 309820 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533984266 660504 :Random2!~Random@115.52.175.77 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533984394 639169 :Random2!~Random@115.52.175.77 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533985259 311853 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533986630 508319 :vans12!~vans@189.98.36.104 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533987013 606637 :vans12!~vans@189.98.36.104 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1533988469 807882 :wob_jonas!b03f18f2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.242 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533988841 297143 :wob_jonas!b03f18f2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :u0_a101: you can try to look at https://esolangs.org/wiki/Mouse or ... uh, there was some low-level language intended to be used as an embedded language that can directly access the memory space of the parent process and with like five types of registers and three-letter commands.
< 1533988888 303837 :wob_jonas!b03f18f2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what was that latter language and wasn't it one of yours?
< 1533989454 857602 :wob_jonas!b03f18f2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/CLCLC-INTERCAL WTF, a dialect of Intercal without the unary bitwise operators? that's so strange
< 1533990724 889169 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533990788 926015 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533991134 940754 :rain2!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea UTF-0  UTF-1 
< 1533991897 193108 :wob_jonas!b03f18f2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.242 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1533992375 421768 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1533992600 252969 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you make that
< 1533992629 978 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unary would be easy but stupid, but utf-0?
< 1533993092 130410 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF--1+i
< 1533993111 936640 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533993118 922087 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533993132 478938 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: (rofl)
< 1533993197 298029 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sfqsixzxkofhwaqi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533995259 592013 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-137-99.cdrr.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1533995527 986483 :BenLand100!~BenLand10@84.95.37.143.forward.012.net.il JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533995735 25794 :BenLand100!~BenLand10@84.95.37.143.forward.012.net.il QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533997120 253820 :ForexTrader!~ForexTrad@186.139.40.155 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533997141 724529 :ForexTrader!~ForexTrad@186.139.40.155 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1533997476 835441 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1533997941 921189 :Metacity13!~Metacity@220.76.87.103 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1533997969 248972 :Metacity13!~Metacity@220.76.87.103 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534000643 101073 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was an UTF-1, but it wasn't 1 as in "one bit", it was 1 as in "first". It's an appendix in the original (1993) ISO-10646, it's a multibyte encoding somewhat similar to UTF-8 except worse.
< 1534000796 437255 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote worse
< 1534000797 146648 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :350) <coppro> elliott: actually, it's worse right now, I'm in the USA  <coppro> where the solution to counterfeiting problems is "add more ink"  <coppro> eventually all US bills will just be solid green \ 385) <SgeoN1> No nasty sounds for a while now. Going to turn off and on and see if the numbers get worse. \ 524) <Gregor> You know how the arrow pierces your skin, rearranging and randomizing vital internal structure?  <Gregor> Monads are like that, only 
< 1534000831 206974 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 524
< 1534000831 936035 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :524) <Gregor> You know how the arrow pierces your skin, rearranging and randomizing vital internal structure?  <Gregor> Monads are like that, only worse.
< 1534000844 601690 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much hate
< 1534001022 808395 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :((
< 1534001058 422169 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’ll never try burritos then
< 1534001067 190151 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :if monads are also like them
< 1534001135 847734 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A46C74.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534001447 452107 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Burritos and monads are both quite nice
< 1534001467 173193 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't want to confuse the two.
< 1534001468 572595 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I tend to overfill them
< 1534001477 986736 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that just ends up messy
< 1534001597 897962 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should try to not have too many at the same time, too, to avoid bloat
< 1534001950 238289 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So to paraphrase, monads are like burritos; if you stack them too high, the result is inevitably a mess?
< 1534001966 912741 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1534001986 259326 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also a burrito inside a burrito is sometimes but generally not a burrito itself!
< 1534003155 481020 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a ListT burrito which wasn’t done right until some time in the past?
< 1534003930 989961 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale knows all about that I believe
< 1534005093 317400 :steveeJ20!~steveeJ@170.78.50.30 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534005345 321498 :steveeJ20!~steveeJ@170.78.50.30 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1534005994 906677 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:699c:a716:1b3e:6b38 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, the ListT in MTL was (and is) incorrect.
< 1534006021 170495 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, really?
< 1534006042 760798 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl
< 1534006080 954398 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:699c:a716:1b3e:6b38 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, the things it produces are not law-abiding monads unless the monad you give it is commutative, which few monads are.
< 1534006166 558895 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1534006168 208587 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing
< 1534006495 854873 :majestic25!~majestic@115.167.10.56 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534006826 260653 :majestic25!~majestic@115.167.10.56 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1534007131 586320 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :how common is it for someone to make a monad named Nock for the lulz?
< 1534007144 225081 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534007318 403338 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is such monad meaning?
< 1534007336 274945 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1534007658 601329 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google "you could have invented hylomorphisms"
< 1534007659 757000 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :No Result Found.
< 1534007669 472625 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google google
< 1534007670 482876 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.google.com/
< 1534008509 748870 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: its up to you to decide that. sometimes, there are names in want of things.
< 1534008943 838680 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? zzo38
< 1534008944 893229 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 is not actually the next version of fungot, much as it may seem.
< 1534008952 501514 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: oh
< 1534008953 79660 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i tried /topic in a .c file and see what happens :) they are probably talking more like 100 lines here, and then ' fnord' :p. but that doesn't help
< 1534008990 866782 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have not "chatted" with fungot in a while)
< 1534008991 82298 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: where is the acid? where is it? bye!
< 1534009005 888555 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: why are you leaving so soon?
< 1534009006 332383 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: where is lisppaste? i've posted this before i do, be lazy and not check for the extent of your mathematical background. the 1st chapter of sicp.
< 1534009879 423789 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I know where the acid is but I won’t tell you :P
< 1534009879 638991 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: are *all* concatenative languages functional? ( no, i'm sure)
< 1534009880 587894 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-137-99.cdrr.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534009937 509440 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so surreal when fungot almost makes sense
< 1534009938 29261 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: well the exercise does describe named let adequately i think?) for the ' most jewish' towns in the red river valley, austin, and state indices could be stored
< 1534010002 885793 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: btw have you gained conscience already
< 1534010003 229827 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: well i could find about it online. but for people who are technically freelancers, but always doubted they really exist in simple examples. :(
< 1534010019 618009 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1534010331 663810 :ErrantEgo0!~ErrantEgo@211.210.6.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534010442 402950 :ErrantEgo0!~ErrantEgo@211.210.6.208 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534010472 29345 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534010795 913492 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534010812 922726 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: как ты относишься к кириллице?
< 1534010813 206308 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: i've heard minion is perpetually disgruntled." i have quite a nice learning environment...
< 1534010844 441564 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feared it’d be worse
< 1534010988 498746 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534011259 482893 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: it might be if fungot actually took context into account
< 1534011259 657965 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: was that a question in " the call/ cc's
< 1534012034 254915 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: Found 1 in /dev/zero
< 1534012268 703677 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534012514 15781 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1534012552 691819 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534012737 672657 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534013369 145604 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:699c:a716:1b3e:6b38 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1534013582 927163 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you good at the computer game I put on here a while ago?
< 1534014155 663292 :xset!~xset@128-74-25-231.broadband.corbina.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534014177 86859 :xset!~xset@128-74-25-231.broadband.corbina.ru QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1534014900 404145 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534015000 306249 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :high score 80 in the default mode... I don't think that's good
< 1534015084 44037 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: where to find it?
< 1534015233 300760 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :  http://zzo38computer.org/GAMES/MEGAPANE.ZIP
< 1534015367 589126 :u0_a101!~u0_a101@c-73-118-33-160.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :.exe :(
< 1534015653 228850 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :runs in dosbox
< 1534015678 258470 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quaint
< 1534015997 876988 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will add some more options later
< 1534016016 610838 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1534016868 481102 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534017401 610298 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: zzo38: 35!
< 1534017420 162208 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, basic, really? :o
< 1534017473 800541 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: are you complaining because it's not esoteric enough? :P
< 1534017501 417703 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, no
< 1534017558 201752 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven’t seen a classical (Q?)Basic code in, let me think… forever
< 1534017630 786266 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, non-classic, no line numbers
< 1534017638 770020 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still not VB either
< 1534017667 102657 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :my first real programs were in VB6((
< 1534017673 629358 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is written in BASIC. The source codes are public domain so you can do what you want with it (although the executable file may be copyright by Microsoft). That is what I use when writing programs on DOS (for native programs on Linux I use C). While there are some free BASIC compilers, they should be enhanced to support some of the commands they currently don't and support real mode
< 1534017715 39252 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: also interesting game idea
< 1534017754 254732 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh I accidently reached 311
< 1534017763 381794 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric ::oo
< 1534017800 480115 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and I mean that... I felt out of control the whole time)
< 1534017840 397934 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :44 at the second time
< 1534017852 408185 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it’s pointless for me to continue :D
< 1534017897 681567 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/mph.png
< 1534017979 404948 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is not a random file name: mph = mega pane highscore)
< 1534018002 115949 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: 44 is a more normal score :)
< 1534018049 703960 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel a bit too slow for this game still
< 1534018104 810651 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the solitaire mode that you get if you press "T" once
< 1534018131 590619 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where the board moves up every 8 moves you make)
< 1534018135 334618 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534018158 378975 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I’ve missed that!
< 1534018371 980519 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually this part of the game is quite advanced... you can select a preset (0-9), change the settings, save it, and then it'll start recording highscores for that setting
< 1534018409 939612 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :reminds me remotely of the good old blockout game
< 1534018420 605322 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :50 on default solitaire
< 1534019020 23012 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: Rebooting for new kernel
< 1534019076 769078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534019153 331010 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534019323 302572 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:5845:6ffc:b0b5:2bc7 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534019778 852883 :lutki_!~lutki_@190-37-221-90.dyn.dsl.cantv.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534019884 534832 :lutki_!~lutki_@190-37-221-90.dyn.dsl.cantv.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534020476 90425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages?
< 1534020476 332902 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, no messages today.
< 1534020762 12289 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let act i j = lift (tell [i]) `mplus` lift (tell [j]); x = snd . runWriter . runListT in (x (act 1 2 >> (act 3 4 >> act 5 6)), x ((act 1 2 >> act 3 4) >> act 5 6))
< 1534020763 879301 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : error:
< 1534020763 979911 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :     Variable not in scope: runListT :: a1 -> Writer c a0
< 1534020776 592163 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let import Control.Monad.List
< 1534020777 678081 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined.
< 1534020779 60462 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let act i j = lift (tell [i]) `mplus` lift (tell [j]); x = snd . runWriter . runListT in (x (act 1 2 >> (act 3 4 >> act 5 6)), x ((act 1 2 >> act 3 4) >> act 5 6))
< 1534020781 286283 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : ([1,2,3,4,5,6,5,6,3,4,5,6,5,6],[1,2,3,4,3,4,5,6,5,6,5,6,5,6])
< 1534020856 666241 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :no messages today my love is gone away, the λ-bot stands forlorn a symbol of the dawn
< 1534020893 559391 :u0_a101!~u0_a101@c-73-118-33-160.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :qq 
< 1534020941 787702 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: is @let global to all lambdabot?
< 1534020957 236174 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of*
< 1534020977 877616 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@undef
< 1534020978 205649 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Undefined.
< 1534020979 614202 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: yes
< 1534020991 517522 :u0_a101!~u0_a101@c-73-118-33-160.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: something you said earlier had me briefly playing with the idea of a super-goto that could also pass values, and be returned to, receiving a value... but i gave up on that after about 30 minutes
< 1534021016 415422 :ErrantEgo14!~ErrantEgo@118-86-119-13.kakt.j-cnet.jp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534021016 921976 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seem would be difficult to implement, it seem to me.
< 1534021038 950010 :u0_a101!~u0_a101@c-73-118-33-160.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i think you'd have to keep a stack of them to return
< 1534021057 857754 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: what one does when some imports are interfering with something, is there a way to un-import?
< 1534021100 360384 :ErrantEgo14!~ErrantEgo@118-86-119-13.kakt.j-cnet.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534021102 684704 :u0_a101!~u0_a101@c-73-118-33-160.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually goto seems hard to implement in general... how do you handle skipping past a var declaration, etc
< 1534021145 574954 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: @undef resets all @let commands
< 1534021157 503677 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where L.hs
< 1534021157 821912 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :what lambdabot has in scope is at http://silicon.int-e.eu/lambdabot/State/Pristine.hs
< 1534021182 972712 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I do know of difficulties of implementing goto, but one way is to just disallow jumping past a variable declaration. Some programming language expect variable declarations at the beginning of a block, and if you cannot jump into a block then that is automatically the case.
< 1534021194 175062 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: @let adds stuff to a file L.hs; @undef copies Pristine.hs to L.hs, overwriting all @let changes
< 1534021217 584577 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all very well designed and userfriendly. :P
< 1534021218 949976 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :u0_a101: all declarations within a block could be treated as its inseparable traits, occurring in the same code with runnable instructions only because of a, let’s say, “bad” design
< 1534021257 727445 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it's all very well designed and userfriendly. :P => I see ::::
< 1534021274 979935 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let import qualified Control.Monad.List as CML
< 1534021276 131306 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined.
< 1534021290 650503 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let t = lift . tell . (:[]); a i j = t i `mplus` t j; x = snd . runWriter . CML.runListT in (x (a 1 2 >> (t 3 >> t 4)), x ((a 1 2 >> t 3) >> t 4))
< 1534021292 437542 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : ([1,2,3,4,3,4],[1,2,3,3,4,4])
< 1534021351 168005 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :there could be an interesting er… game when someone privately sends @undef to lambdabot in the heat of someone else building a complex machiery in the chat
< 1534021379 156864 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway this is how ListT is broken: The order of effects of the base monad may change with the bracketing of >> (or >=>), breaking the corresponding associative law.
< 1534021416 257430 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: it has caused surprisingly few problems so far... people cope.
< 1534021423 923991 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, so it only transforms some monads and not all of them.
< 1534021438 143143 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it is not a real monad transfomer and only is partial
< 1534021476 462612 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: seems reasonable. Also I was half-joking :D
< 1534021494 22781 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t StateT IO
< 1534021495 248519 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :error:
< 1534021495 248568 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :    • Data constructor not in scope: IO :: s -> m (a, s)
< 1534021495 488028 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :    • Perhaps you meant ‘In’ (imported from Lambdabot.Plugin.Haskell.Eval.Trusted)
< 1534021512 173124 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::k StateT IO
< 1534021512 969590 :u0_a101!~u0_a101@c-73-118-33-160.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: so, hoisting var declarations to top of block basically? i'f im understanding you right?
< 1534021513 386476 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :error:
< 1534021513 621255 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :    • Expecting one more argument to ‘IO’
< 1534021513 621333 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :      Expected a type, but ‘IO’ has kind ‘* -> *’
< 1534021519 802024 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::k StateT IO Integer
< 1534021520 880880 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :error:
< 1534021520 976400 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :    • Expecting one more argument to ‘IO’
< 1534021521 121860 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :      Expected a type, but ‘IO’ has kind ‘* -> *’
< 1534021525 322301 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::k StateT (IO Integer)
< 1534021526 572345 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :(* -> *) -> * -> *
< 1534021544 994599 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::k IO Integer
< 1534021546 240722 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :*
< 1534021573 86233 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :u0_a101: yep, or think of declarations inside a runnable block like a nops
< 1534021598 618686 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: http://hackage.haskell.org/package/logict is "ListT done properly" borrowing from Cont (Codensity, Yoneda, yada-yada).
< 1534021634 430584 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also gets rid of the lists.
< 1534021663 100695 :u0_a101!~u0_a101@c-73-118-33-160.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: hmm, interesting idea :)
< 1534021677 855632 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been having my own thoughts about things like error handling, backtracking, select(2), and the like
< 1534021690 421480 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that there's a way to do it correctly, from a programmer's point of view
< 1534021700 867636 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also disallow jumping to a label if there is a variable declaration between the goto and label
< 1534021701 78582 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are “runned” before all explicit runnable statements do, notwithstanding goto jumps, like a finalizer in try…finally statements is run after something almost always, even if something was thrown
< 1534021701 984610 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and monads are heavily involved, but it's not quite the same
< 1534021724 842717 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think what you need is to collapse the whole mess of monads and monad transformers into a single universal monad that does everything
< 1534021776 978470 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless the declaration in inside of a block that you are jumping out of.)
< 1534021807 893661 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :u0_a101: also it combines well with freedom to declare things precisely where you need them, and with lexical scoping too
< 1534021852 129140 :u0_a101!~u0_a101@c-73-118-33-160.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i think this is what lua does
< 1534021867 808571 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe; I don't know much about what Lua does.
< 1534021869 899104 :u0_a101!~u0_a101@c-73-118-33-160.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't jump past var declaration
< 1534021870 335527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one big inspiration is that ? from Rust is basically just do-notation, but nicer
< 1534021870 457785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534021882 332775 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534021884 619264 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> Rust's x = a? is equivalent to Haskell's x <- a
< 1534021894 607204 :u0_a101!~u0_a101@c-73-118-33-160.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also label must be visible to goto, lexically
< 1534021899 179425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well, except that Rust ? only supports Option and Either, making it easier to implement
< 1534021927 43954 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: seems I heard of it. Ah I wish I used Haskell more frequently
< 1534021929 132746 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess ? is a postfix operator here?
< 1534021946 964489 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm
< 1534021950 241229 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you should be allowed to jump past a variable declaration as long as you are jumping outside of the block where that variable declaration is. And, yes, of course the label must be visible to goto, too.
< 1534021961 587938 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that, including the assignment, a single syntactic form?
< 1534022001 112139 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: yes, it's a postfix operator
< 1534022083 602062 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Rust, it's results in x if its argument is Ok(x), x if its argument is Just(x), and if neither of those is the case, it exits the entire function, returning its argument unchanged
< 1534022093 397533 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming I got the syntax right there, I don't really know Rust)
< 1534022116 166637 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :the semantics are not quite right
< 1534022120 869768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I personally see ? as more of a "convert the rest of the function into a lambda" operator
< 1534022163 617141 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, { f; a?; g } ends up being converted to { f; a.map(|| g) }
< 1534022176 94692 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1534022188 704500 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ f; x = a?; g } ends up being converted to { f; a.map(|x| g) }
< 1534022203 555291 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where |x| is "lambda x."
< 1534022213 522086 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is exactly the same thing Haskell do-notation does
< 1534022231 329858 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well, it's not /quite/ the same; do-notation is flatMap (i.e. >>=), not regular map
< 1534022248 185843 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :smalltalk forever
< 1534022280 712202 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I believe that's where the || notation comes from.)
< 1534022305 648029 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah interesting, I associate it with Ruby
< 1534022335 191739 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it strikes me that most existing languages/APIs are very bad at common tasks like waiting for one of two unrelated events to happen
< 1534022335 784738 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm
< 1534022363 58454 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"wait until someone clicks the mouse or a particular socket receives a network packet" is very difficult with most programming frameworks
< 1534022367 628646 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods

< 1534022367 831050 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: erlang should be good at that
< 1534022388 537389 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the general solution involves a multiple threads and a blocking queu
< 1534022394 129965 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*blocking queue
< 1534022412 915680 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and SDL is also bad at that since not all events are SDL events and SDL can't give you a file descriptor for its events (although Xlib can).
< 1534022414 672965 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this is the main reason threading became popular
< 1534022423 897625 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most recent case of "that sounds like monadic bind" for me is JS and "await" I think (well, I guess promises in general)
< 1534022437 745573 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: yes, promises are a special case of this pattern too
< 1534022506 685363 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :JavaScript also has generator functions too
< 1534022517 368759 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a well-designed language would use promises for all input, and have an any() operator/function that returned the value of whichever promise completed first, and blocked until one of them did
< 1534022520 497469 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with appropriate error handling
< 1534022540 556247 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what we get instead is a lot of ad-hoc select/poll/epoll calls
< 1534022565 662699 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the UNIX way is to make everything a file descriptor; that's workable, but as zzo38 says, most libraries abstract things away from that model and have no way to abstract-invert them back into it
< 1534022576 186949 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu
< 1534022588 142527 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell isn't terrible for this either... depending on your taste, using STM or using its light-weight threads (possibly hidden behind an abstraction like the 'parallel' package)
< 1534022617 15229 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :JS has a Promise.all which is a  [Promise a] -> Promise [a]  function that waits for all of them to complete; a buncha libraries had a Promise.race but I don't think it ended up being a standard thing ("wait until any settles, then settle with its value")
< 1534022627 961319 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you could implement it as a library function of course
< 1534022652 900392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: well, this is what an event loop is, effectively
< 1534022654 370479 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case you could do like,  const thing = await Promise.race([thing1, thing2])  which is kinda decent?
< 1534022655 803745 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the OS interface that tends to be awful. (select, epoll... OS threads are usually too expensive)
< 1534022658 412211 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :API-wise
< 1534022664 630278 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure
< 1534022667 221578 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd want the other, unfinished promises to continue though
< 1534022678 101835 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what LogicT calls msplit
< 1534022681 449368 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm this is true
< 1534022682 283568 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: This sounds similar to the language I was talking about recently with things that affect the rest of the scope.
< 1534022702 88335 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess "head" would be a good name, because list terminology seems to be what people have settled on for monads
< 1534022702 380296 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :JSZM uses generator functions for all I/O (it does not implement I/O itself; the application program must handle it; JSZM is only a library)
< 1534022728 951757 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which ended up being pretty SSAy, which is similar to CPS/monads.
< 1534022739 812440 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not all monads are list monads, although some have features like list monads, so in that case I suppose "head" seem good
< 1534022752 708933 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: right, this is just about naming
< 1534022779 673524 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, for monads that are like list monads you can use the names for those features like those for lists.
< 1534022781 456946 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people find "map" quite intuitive on general monads, for example
< 1534022831 660845 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that applies to all monads.
< 1534022880 624801 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :naming things makes them easier to learn; I think most people have more of an intuitive idea of "flatMap" (i.e. map then flatten) than they do of ">>=", even though they're the same operation
< 1534022891 212563 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw, is there a standard name for monad flattening?)
< 1534022902 299752 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiplication?
< 1534022934 406643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Monad m => m (m x) -> m x
< 1534022935 36810 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad join :: (Monad m) => m (m a) -> m a
< 1534022935 129097 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Streaming join :: Monad m => m (m a) -> m a
< 1534022935 264785 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haxl.Prelude join :: Monad m => m (m a) -> m a
< 1534022939 886838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, "join"
< 1534022962 946540 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, in Haskell. Sure.
< 1534022965 924728 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, "flatten" would make sense to me if you call flatMap that?
< 1534022971 180750 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1534022981 569155 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess "join" sort-of makes sense on lists but it seems misleading for other things
< 1534023005 82098 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there's this spawn :: IO a -> IO (IO a) thing
< 1534023007 826696 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@source Control.Monad.join
< 1534023008 59654 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list
< 1534023013 535476 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Control.Monad.join
< 1534023013 936636 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. Take a stress pill and think things over.
< 1534023014 217715 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (runIdentity .) .  traverse . (Identity .)
< 1534023014 282111 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which spawns a thing in a thread and gives you and IO value you can use to wait for the result.
< 1534023015 558472 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Traversable t => (a -> b) -> t a -> t b
< 1534023016 708218 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Control.Monad join
< 1534023016 967169 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. My mind is going. I can feel it.
< 1534023025 492181 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There the name "join" matches the use of "join" in multithreading.
< 1534023026 185853 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still "join" is one of those operation of all monads, not only lists
< 1534023056 446396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the thread "join" is bizarrely named too, though; it's more like "wait for termination and take the value"
< 1534023069 163846 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes
< 1534023069 889132 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1534023082 600785 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's funny that it ends up working in that context.
< 1534023082 736480 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I personally think of monads as being formed of map, join, return
< 1534023085 961578 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src join
< 1534023086 205067 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :join x = x >>= id
< 1534023091 69894 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not part of the class)
< 1534023113 870994 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, because Haskell treats >>= as the primitive, join is implemented by flatMap id
< 1534023115 598986 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I mean, it kind of makes sense as a name, since you have two threads of execution, and it joins them into one, by waiting for one of them to terminate?
< 1534023115 761558 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src [] (>>=)
< 1534023116 89954 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :xs >>= f = concatMap f xs
< 1534023116 766733 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's the standard definition.
< 1534023121 908072 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Maybe (>>=)
< 1534023122 256498 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Just x) >>= k = k x
< 1534023122 313582 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing  >>= _ = Nothing
< 1534023128 781208 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :well "joins" in the sense of a drawn graph
< 1534023137 113722 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's the opposite of "fork"
< 1534023165 342557 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so  join xs  =  xs >>= id  =  concatMap id xs  =  concat (map id xs)  =  concat xs
< 1534023180 610252 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for lists.
< 1534023233 324541 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I assume Haskell doesn't have a Lazy monad because it's lazy anyway?
< 1534023243 680577 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :laziness is a monad too, though
< 1534023271 959943 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I guess it's just the identity monad in Haskell
< 1534023276 251190 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agda has a partiality monad.
< 1534023288 228306 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's pretty different.
< 1534024316 782937 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A46C74.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1534024395 629176 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think someone mention that a new feature in GHC can be made to treat both >>= and join as primitive and whichever one you do not define will be defined automatically by other one.
< 1534025062 83006 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1534028238 71323 :w3stside15!~w3stside@89-64-31-215.dynamic.chello.pl JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1534031657 778032 :gareth__24!~gareth__@softbank221040034087.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1534032077 550570 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that, instead of HPKP, can be TLS-PKP, which is not specific to HTTP(S) and can be used with any protocol. Additionally there is no sending reporting (although a program may display the report to the user if implemented, it doesn't automatically send it anywhere and the protocol has no specification as to where to send it anyways. There is also no mandatory backup pinning, and the user MUST have the ability to configure/disable/override TL
> 1534032508 347906 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Functional()14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57312&oldid=57264 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+16) 10Added link to cat program
< 1534032690 76204 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Specifically, the "includeSubDomains" and "report-uri" fields in HPKP would not be available for TLS-PKP, although the key and duration are included, and that is all.)
< 1534032763 673240 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534033017 759601 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534033677 514901 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? twh
< 1534033678 624637 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :twh would help, but is an hth derivative. hth. twh. hand.
< 1534033694 117491 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can't I /msg HackEso?
< 1534033873 864072 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1534034299 493042 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534034794 258221 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534035791 376019 :kepler_mach12!~kepler_ma@119.33.127.145 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534036085 427181 :kepler_mach12!~kepler_ma@119.33.127.145 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534036401 741185 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I mention that I figured out what "break" and "continue" really are?
< 1534036409 37715 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe.
< 1534036419 116106 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :outer: { while(p) { inner: { ... } } }
< 1534036428 583146 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"break" means "break outer", and "continue" means "break inner"
< 1534036788 714610 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You might have +R on? I think Freenode auto-set that to everyone because of the spam.
< 1534036801 367070 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't had the chance to make HackEso register itself to services.
< 1534036813 892581 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe when I get back from here.
< 1534036828 209784 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, you're here.
< 1534036851 426869 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'm +R
< 1534036858 702621 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That explains why I haven't been getting /msg spam anymore.
< 1534036874 750891 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I un-R'd myself, and there's been spam every now and then.
< 1534036881 115801 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though for the last few hours it's been quiet.
< 1534036959 247686 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops, i missed a wikipedia day
< 1534036973 489896 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought i'd opened the tab before going to bed.
< 1534037070 464454 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was someone biking a gBike through downtown Mountain View in broad daylight. :/
< 1534037086 416802 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :gasp
< 1534037118 395046 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonsϿirjan, helloochaf, fiziello.
< 1534037120 393978 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's R?
< 1534037130 505543 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? r
< 1534037131 520585 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :r? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1534037138 712891 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :p. sure it's an esolang
< 1534037196 981022 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: A usermode you can set to not receive private messages from unregistered users.
< 1534037248 827462 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. I like that.
< 1534037394 536753 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b'daily
< 1534037418 775693 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you wishing boily a bad day tdnh
< 1534037430 339107 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1534037437 536043 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you think "the full set" means?
< 1534037448 710553 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :John Baez thinks its the one-element set but that seems fishy to me.
< 1534037455 925168 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat
< 1534037461 177854 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems more likely to be the universe.
< 1534037469 395583 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/its/it's/
< 1534037497 956003 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd think.
< 1534037602 442370 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The half-empty set may actually be the half-full set if you're an optimist.
< 1534037609 880438 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Don't you?
< 1534038905 436988 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534039250 63465 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1534040028 948265 :RumpledElf18!~RumpledEl@186-241-148-133.user.veloxzone.com.br JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1534045709 851811 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534046018 839821 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1534047212 236293 :Gregor!~Gregor@2605:2700:0:17:a800:ff:fe3e:ad41 QUIT :Quit: Coyote finally caught me
< 1534048423 837830 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.supermegacomics.com/index.php?i=80
< 1534048428 548774 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :so many good super megas i forgot about
< 1534048641 537414 :u0_a101!~u0_a101@c-73-118-33-160.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1534049074 998852 :Gregor!~Gregor@2001:470:1:41:a800:ff:fe3e:ad41 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534049667 674337 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534049713 895498 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can you get a hair cut if you do not have any hair (whether due to your species or due to your baldness)? That is what happened in a GURPS game I played.
< 1534049727 155696 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get someone else's hair cut
< 1534049771 273944 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, OK.
< 1534049905 232015 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534050724 759747 :u0_a101!~u0_a101@c-73-118-33-160.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534051353 133396 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534051353 604766 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly QUIT :Quit: Goodbye
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< 1534060931 161266 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: danil
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> 1534062489 654062 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Reversible Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57313&oldid=45694 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+3778) 10Algorithms for building up to a stack with unbounded cells
< 1534062500 18539 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MWAHAHAHA*
< 1534062518 936762 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now time to either eat or shave
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< 1534062769 757428 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION should probably get that code tested at some point.

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< 1534068205 433774 :APic!apic@chiptune.apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Celebrate Zaraday
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< 1534078078 819969 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello; does somebody know a study on defining a space of possible human voice timbres (with any assumptions and restrictions)? Particularly some analysis of formant values that make a timbre human-ish, or some measure of “humanness” of an arbitrary timbre
< 1534078080 674635 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zybctmunjcgzhlly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534078150 862118 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know acoustic part of phonetics relies on formant values so the question shouldn’t be at all unresearched
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< 1534097621 361877 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :still got it: http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/4096.png
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< 1534111418 463485 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zybctmunjcgzhlly PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone have any tricks on creating a binary encoding for an AST where every bitstring is valid?
< 1534111427 77163 :gurmble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534111428 727299 :wob_jonas!b03f18ba@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: sorry, I'm rather busy with new stuff that came up just this weekend, as well as the usual old stuff, but I will at some point watch the whole video (russian cursive), even the parts where you start writing more impatiently.
< 1534111451 108553 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble QUIT :Killed (rajaniemi.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))
< 1534111451 177707 :gurmble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble NICK :grumble
< 1534111461 489390 :wob_jonas!b03f18ba@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: it doesn't bother me too much that the writing is getting ugly. my writing is ugly as hell anyway. as long as it doesn't get as bad as a doctor's, it's fine.
< 1534111521 807194 :wob_jonas!b03f18ba@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably won't learn to write exactly that sort of cursive, but at least will figure out some variant I can write for myself that I can read, probably with the letters often disjoint (which is how I write Hungarian too if I want to make it readable for people other than me, and even then it's not very readable, but native speakers can divine a lo
< 1534111521 952455 :wob_jonas!b03f18ba@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :t from the context)
< 1534111550 754901 :wob_jonas!b03f18ba@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still glad that your video seems to make the underlying logic clear, and how it works totally backwards from the hungarian cursive
< 1534111602 92666 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkapastel: I have thought of thing like that before, but do not remember.
< 1534111809 1103 :wob_jonas!b03f18ba@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf:`outer: { while(p) { inner: { ... } } } / "break" means "break outer", and "continue" means "break inner"` => it is something like that, but your labels are in the wrong place
< 1534111903 288485 :wob_jonas!b03f18ba@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"How can you get a hair cut if you do not have any hair (whether due to your species or due to your baldness)?" => some video games have haircut salons that change your hair graphics to your choice among the available styles. it can grow your hair.
< 1534111926 265379 :wob_jonas!b03f18ba@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an acceptible break from realism since due to limitations of the game, your hair won't just naturally grow. the hairstyles are fixed and small in number.
< 1534111946 712923 :wob_jonas!b03f18ba@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, people often have their kid's hair cut.
< 1534111953 762601 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, although this is not a computer game
< 1534111968 100919 :wob_jonas!b03f18ba@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf is right.
< 1534112027 348733 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is, although it may not be applicable here.
< 1534112238 625117 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: C doesn't have labeled break, so there's no canonical place for the label to go in this syntax
< 1534112246 545440 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkapastel: oh god nice problem. I see only a boring ineffective solution (order bitstrings in some way and the same for trees, and map corresponding ones)
< 1534112260 774353 :wob_jonas!b03f18ba@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, but where you put it is definitely wrong
< 1534112273 44050 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zybctmunjcgzhlly PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: bonus if every bitstring is a unique AST
< 1534112282 437350 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my syntax I'd put it in a different place
< 1534112290 716907 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zybctmunjcgzhlly PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think this is the setup i want for program synthesis
< 1534112294 634226 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But where would you put it?
< 1534112296 431687 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: okay. I can assure it won’t devolve to doctor’s :D
< 1534112302 867408 :wob_jonas!b03f18ba@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: oh wait, you say "break outer" and "break inner", not "goto outer" and "goto inner"
< 1534112304 33977 :wob_jonas!b03f18ba@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry
< 1534112329 732341 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, those are meant to be labeling the blocks
< 1534112390 233729 :wob_jonas!b03f18ba@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd explain it the way it's defined, like while(p) { loop body; inner: } outer:; and then "break;" means "goto outer;" and "continue;" means "goto inner;" but of course it can bind to other control structures than while
< 1534112422 404688 :wob_jonas!b03f18ba@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the way you told it works too
< 1534112432 564094 :wob_jonas!b03f18ba@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just tired and didn't notice that you translated them to labeled break
< 1534112437 344737 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, C doesn't even support break from arbitrary blocks
< 1534112445 756716 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor any other language?
< 1534112447 436327 :wob_jonas!b03f18ba@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :goto are the natural control structures in my mind, not break
< 1534112473 304664 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534112475 741554 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree, goto are the natural control structures rather than break
< 1534112492 149390 :wob_jonas!b03f18ba@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: perl sort of does, and now rust does too, at least arbitrary labeled blocks, at least if it goes outwards, and doesn't go through the boundary of a function body or lambda body
< 1534112513 148040 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rust has it for arbitrary blocks?
< 1534112519 518977 :wob_jonas!b03f18ba@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but break are nice control structures too in practice, and rust now encourages them
< 1534112525 322461 :wob_jonas!b03f18ba@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: or will have it soon, I'm not sure
< 1534112532 614915 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkapastel: yeah, my dull solution gives that (if one understands “order” as I did here—mathematically, so in increasing sequence any element would be met once at max)
< 1534112532 852430 :wob_jonas!b03f18ba@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might not be implemented yet, but I think it's accepted
< 1534112545 834526 :wob_jonas!b03f18ba@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm a bit tired and unsure, ask on mozilla #rust if you want to know
< 1534112552 572197 :wob_jonas!b03f18ba@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know the place
< 1534112599 655740 :wob_jonas!b03f18ba@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case you could have already used a `'label loop{body; break returnvalue}` instead of a bare block
< 1534112618 611754 :wob_jonas!b03f18ba@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why the rust guys could determine that breaks on bare loops aren't too dangerous
< 1534112630 591345 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :there could be even useful optimizations (order strings lexicographically, it’s quite computable in both directions; order trees in some way lexicographically too, and inverting *this* is then a challenge, but in some cases it could be easy)
< 1534112662 732363 :wob_jonas!b03f18ba@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they still had to make sure not to change the behavior of existing unlabeled break, so you can only use a _labeled_ break for a bare block
< 1534112741 502811 :wob_jonas!b03f18ba@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's of course possible that they'll only implement this for the rewritten liveness checker (whatever that thing is called) in rustc, so you might have to wait a tad bit more, I dunno
< 1534112745 752054 :wob_jonas!b03f18ba@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask the rust guys really
< 1534112787 430739 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(any datatypes occuring in nodes should be, of course, also ordered for the latter to work, and a lexicographic order, recursively, is a natural choice then)
< 1534112845 304416 :wob_jonas!b03f18ba@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't know about the status, but the rust guys figured that allowing labeled break from bare blocks is the Right Thing To Do, and will do so eventually if they haven't done it yet
< 1534112917 226516 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534112917 468070 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a QUIT :Changing host
< 1534112917 468118 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534113098 319438 :wob_jonas!b03f18ba@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.186 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1534113186 631302 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcb1dmnmcpyztw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1534113501 773817 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534114180 601542 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2
< 1534114271 337929 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this GURPS game someone said the king insisted we all get our hair cut at a specific barber, even though two of us have no hair.
< 1534114324 389166 :Ceber!~Ceber@125-31-98-3.ppp.bbiq.jp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534114435 373751 :Ceber!~Ceber@125-31-98-3.ppp.bbiq.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534114803 60116 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.6.5+deb2build2 - http://znc.in
< 1534114821 902269 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534116365 405798 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-002-203-102-060.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534116479 811906 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, someone implemented brainfuck as a cellular automaton: http://www.conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3277
< 1534116537 666001 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534116597 935479 :eth212!~eth2@190-78-27-5.dyn.dsl.cantv.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534116606 654730 :eth212!~eth2@190-78-27-5.dyn.dsl.cantv.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534116813 394997 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534117160 326549 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-002-203-038-071.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534117888 227848 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534118223 824483 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-137-99.cdrr.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1534118253 283582 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-137-99.cdrr.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534118291 645316 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534118379 781716 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well, sometimes kings can afford to give you orders that might waste some of your time. at least it doesn't sound too dangerous to go to the barber and tell him to get the haircut on the king's order, or at least not more dangerous because you don't have any hair.
< 1534118432 531205 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's a code for the barber to kill you, you're screwed. If it's just an unnecessary order because the king won't micromanage you, the barber will just skip that part.
< 1534118478 397430 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You can certainly have all your hair cut if you have no hair.
< 1534118484 399559 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be worse. You could be a soldier under a commanding officer that gives you stupid orders all the time.
< 1534118485 345086 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that's the implication.
< 1534118504 339732 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can only have some of your hair cut if you have some hair, though.
< 1534118603 307027 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, of course, I suppose so, that can be sense
< 1534118924 217439 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1534119064 433604 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534119417 857009 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zybctmunjcgzhlly PRIVMSG #esoteric :evolve a brainfuck program to put the largest number possible on a tape with bignums
< 1534119451 849375 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zybctmunjcgzhlly PRIVMSG #esoteric :a program synthesis benchmark due to chaitin: https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/7370/00d9e2ea2a1ae9829b681b402831d5f0e3a3.pdf
< 1534119526 146597 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zybctmunjcgzhlly PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i'm understanding this correctly, that's a good "hard problem" to compare synthesis methods since it requires you to evolve modularity
< 1534119669 913704 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534119780 884220 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais!
< 1534119848 447597 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :re: control structures, I find a very commonly used control structure is "attempt to do X, if it succeeds, continue, if it fails, do some cleanup and try again"
< 1534119851 356221 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "or, well, except that Rust ? only supports Option and Either" => it will be a bit more general than that technically, applying to more types, but not really more expressive. still just allows to write early exits like you can do with an Either, but with more general types
< 1534119857 956250 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is hard to express in terms of the usual control structures
< 1534119894 584847 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: If you support general monads, do you impose an order of execution on expressions?
< 1534119902 97364 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(x?, y?) and so on.
< 1534119927 53932 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you have to
< 1534119939 775702 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that or declare it unspecified
< 1534119945 280520 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1534119980 792087 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: um, I write stuff like that with loops. like, for example, when my cbstream bot fails to retrieve the answer from perlmonks, it logs the error, sometimes switches to another webserver (there's three of them), and sleeps for a while, then retries. but the whole thing about querying the server is in a loop anyway, it's just different actions 
< 1534119980 792149 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :after when it succeeds and when it fails.
< 1534120023 233579 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering whether to do that.
< 1534120062 453402 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: what specific sort of loop?
< 1534120074 207435 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, what's the control condition?
< 1534120093 231924 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: an infinite one, mostly. let me check. there's some fatal errors that break out of the whole thing.
< 1534120123 933964 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not really a good example of coding. the whole thing is over ten years old and very obsolete and ripe for a rewrite.
< 1534120126 447534 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, my current idiom for this is while (true) { try; if (success) break; cleanup; }
< 1534120136 35499 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't seem like a good fit for a while loop at all
< 1534120144 176346 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's some new control structure that hasn't been named yet
< 1534120146 443721 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I will have to rewrite because "for over ten years with over twenty users" sounds good on my CV
< 1534120225 53217 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least work a lot on it so it works
< 1534120235 160147 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it would still be obsolete, mind you)
< 1534120247 703942 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the perlmonks server is worse
< 1534120274 793369 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's horribly unsecure from the user's point of view, at least I think, although I never really wrote a proof of concept exploit
< 1534120298 687036 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would need some major fixes too and the perlmonks gods are too busy to do that too
< 1534120369 397464 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, the loop I'm talking about is a loop do; ... end which is an infinite loop
< 1534120468 990682 :puck!~puck@puckipedia.com QUIT :Quit: *eh*
< 1534120519 53032 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, "http://russell2.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/sc/cbstream/#can_i_get_the_source_of_cbstream" ,
< 1534120550 59640 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this loop is just one ruby thread by the way. the body starts with timed condition variable wait loop, which in normal operation amounts to a sleep 30, but the sleep amount varies if there are errors, and it can be woken up early if someone sends a message from irc to perlmonks,
< 1534120588 542248 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it checks for the emergency stop button (for which some perlmonks operators have a password),
< 1534120593 497621 :puckipedia!~puck@puckipedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534120595 51546 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it does the http query to perlmonks,
< 1534120654 838729 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it parses the reply (which could also cause a retriable error, but this shouldn't normally happen; it used to because of a misunderstanding between what format perlmonks thought it sends and what I received but I'd cleaned that up, so it should only happen in the very rare case if the reply gets truncated),
< 1534120673 678941 :Guest8451!~LEI@5.202.45.49 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534120683 957396 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :errors during the http query itself do happen sometimes though, and are retriable.
< 1534120713 198748 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of them, anyway. there's some that are fatal, on purpose, so the perlmonks admins can use that to kill cbstream too.
< 1534120753 941160 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, then the success or error and the time the query took and the current time is logged, then on success if any messages were found they're sent to the other thread through a queue so it can print them on irc,
< 1534120773 441081 :puckipedia!~puck@puckipedia.com NICK :puck
< 1534120776 486274 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's the whole loop in the retreive from perlmonks thread.
< 1534120906 38399 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are three other threads, one to send messages to perlmonks when someone writes the message on irc, one to read from irc, and one to write from irc.
< 1534120910 844613 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are ruby threads, not OS threads.
< 1534120930 733112 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's some initialization code before the four threads start.
< 1534120964 250477 :Guest8451!~LEI@5.202.45.49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1534121149 878386 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for those event abstraction libraries, I'm partial to schmorp's libev, at least if you're not targeting win32, but any unix. It handles a lot of details about the better kernel interfaces each unix comes up to replace select/poll, of which there are several in various brands in unix.
< 1534121168 764631 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can't hide all the details, so you have to read the manual carefully, but it's still a pretty well done library.
< 1534121194 284375 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least if you are willing to read a well-written manual.
< 1534121211 557259 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you write esolang specs, you probably are willing.
< 1534121233 935499 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For win32, I do not recommend it. There's some win32 compatibility, but frankly, win32 is just so different and that's not what libev was made for.
< 1534121326 77713 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only difficulty is, its interface is a really C-like one, optimized for the case when you want to write a high-performance server watching many file descriptors at the same time, and you can write code that doesn't corrupt memory or cause undefined behavior by calling C libraries wrong.
< 1534121352 942893 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :win32 has WaitForMultipleObjects which is a really good idea but it's incompatible with a decent proportion of what you'd want to use it for
< 1534121355 231816 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if that's what you want, the interface is well designed, and the manual is well written, the implementation is good, and schmorp reacts to sane questions.
< 1534121414 986694 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't really tell much about win32. I do a fair share of work on win32, but not the part where I have to write programs that have to deal with the unique ... difficulties of win32.
< 1534121462 94979 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And schmorp doesn't program on win32 either, he writes programs for unices, so he doesn't write libraries that help win32 much.
< 1534121529 613250 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frankly, avoiding having to deal with the unique parts of win32 is a good life choice.
< 1534121538 483978 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1534121545 500845 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pretty much gave up on Windows when win16 became obsolete
< 1534121570 465503 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows prides itself on its backwards compatibility, but it isn't actually as compatible as all that
< 1534121581 841566 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :When was that?
< 1534121583 247503 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it did become a bit better since the older
< 1534121586 412005 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um
< 1534121586 756638 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite Microsoft's best efforts, things break, and trying to develop new programs to old APIs is really hard
< 1534121590 236768 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since XP, let's say
< 1534121602 781451 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: old win16 functionality started breakinh around win95-win98
< 1534121607 587686 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it was /meant/ to work
< 1534121617 166243 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I remember it Windows XP could still run Windows 2.0 programs.
< 1534121635 892488 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in windows 2 you could play sound through the system speaker
< 1534121639 391369 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in windows 98 that just doesn't work
< 1534121645 120921 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the API exists but does nothing
< 1534121668 259377 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did run _some_ win16 programs on windows 95 osr2 and they worked fine, but those were programs by MS itself
< 1534121685 343532 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same old versions of programs, not updated
< 1534121746 359734 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing that really annoyed me was that there was no standard program for transferring data between Windows 95 and Windows XP, which is something I really needed
< 1534121749 608449 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I had an appropriate cable)
< 1534121752 765792 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the end I ended up writing one
< 1534121761 666035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that just shoved the data down the serial port
< 1534121764 134294 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: um, you mean like copying files?
< 1534121770 520347 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :between two different computers?
< 1534121785 909606 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but more like cat as it didn't send the filenames
< 1534121789 599208 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because on the same computer you could just mount the same fat32 disk
< 1534121810 592997 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically the equivalent of piping a file into netcat on one computer and out of netcat on another
< 1534121822 846168 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is a method I've actually used to send people files before now)
< 1534121833 562832 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1534121874 175065 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, between two DOS computers, I used norton commander for dos to send files through serial port cable or parallel port cable. was easy to set up.
< 1534121880 492788 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also used flopppies of course.
< 1534121910 531654 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could use an old small hard disk if you had the time to open the cases and power down the computer and all that.
< 1534121915 542774 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more recent DOS had a built-in command for that, I think
< 1534121918 93223 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but cable worked well.
< 1534121918 643604 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget what it was named though
< 1534121943 271685 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember it ran at 115200 baud, though, which was surprising for me as I didn't realise speeds above 9600 existed
< 1534121997 261948 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: `mode com ...` to set up serial port, then `copy con1 filename` on destination and `copy filename con1` on source?
< 1534122005 379275 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus there were some other programs that didn't come with dos
< 1534122009 903417 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides norton commander
< 1534122014 713755 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but norton commander worked fine for me
< 1534122042 382162 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC it had a "GUI"
< 1534122046 856909 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I you can still use it on windows 95 osr2, and likely windows 98 too. I don't know about windows xp, but it should probably work.
< 1534122047 516669 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although using VGA text mode)
< 1534122059 548590 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: norton commander's link has a pretty good gui
< 1534122117 95273 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also used floppies. they work well when the two computers are too far for a cable and you don't want to move them. just cycle three floppies around, split the file with zip or other programs.
< 1534122131 235511 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure this isn't a separate downloaded/purchased program I was using (unless it was a DOS program that came with Windows?)
< 1534122140 83340 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno
< 1534122147 683658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it could have been installed by the manufacturer, but in the days of Windows 95 people probably weren't preinstalling DOS programs
< 1534122153 378878 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there could be other programs I just don't know about
< 1534122174 950966 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did install custom programs to my machine
< 1534122194 110318 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still have an image with many of those useful programs (some are lost)
< 1534122228 619650 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and a decent one-floppy compressed rescue disk, and that annoying bot that connects a DOS machine to an irc channel)
< 1534122262 888964 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, some searching found it: "interlink" (or "interlnk" because filenames were 8.3 back then)
< 1534122289 228137 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :possible
< 1534122302 222541 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, I remembered it as soon as I saw the name
< 1534122315 155418 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :part of ms-dos 6, apparently
< 1534122329 336827 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably just don't remember it much because norton commander worked well, I used it for transfer on cable many times
< 1534122358 291465 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's that or floppies
< 1534122521 798441 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me
< 1534122567 220588 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but these days I barely even run DOS. I'm keeping it around because there are some old games that are worth to revisit and the DOS port is good.
< 1534122591 358491 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some are native DOS only, specifically the Commander Keen series
< 1534122620 604744 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't play them these days, but will probably eventually get to it "when I have time"
< 1534122640 948477 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think most people use DOSbox for that nowadays
< 1534122662 86909 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. I use bochs, or at least used it the last time. dosbox is better for some newer dos games.
< 1534122684 672963 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly due to differences in video card and sound card capabilities.
< 1534122701 789921 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :might have changed in later versions of bochs and qemu and dosbox of course.
< 1534122706 886144 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, each of them have uses.
< 1534122769 200543 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :back when I used it, bochs had ... interesting bugs. so I disabled the coprocessor, which would in theory slow things down if I weren't on a machine that was from the future compared to what those DOS programs were made for.
< 1534122870 853894 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and doesn't matter for the games anyway
< 1534122989 403874 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also use DOSBOX to run LHA, since sometimes I want to copy a file from this computer to another computer with DOS that cannot load ZIP files created from this computer.
< 1534122994 706750 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by coprocessor I mean the 80387 interface of course
< 1534123043 315013 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm wondering when separate 387s died out
< 1534123046 437176 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cannot load zip files? can't you just install some software on it to load those zip files?
< 1534123062 484260 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're all emulated in hardware nowadays
< 1534123067 131196 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: between 486 and 586. some 486s have the coprocessor built in, and all 586s do.
< 1534123075 112838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I assume djgpp has a working unzip program
< 1534123082 935390 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the codenames were 486 DX versus 486 SX.
< 1534123100 555623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, nowadays of course, the 387 isn't even a separate part of the chip (apart from its registers), it's all done in microcode
< 1534123103 368333 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't know which one is which .
< 1534123107 400969 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is the program to load ZIP files, but it is an old version and is not compatible with the ZIP files created by 7-Zip.
< 1534123149 781953 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534123169 365161 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :7-zip maintains a DOS version of 7-zip. it's not as complete as the windows version, but it should work.
< 1534123198 441027 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are lots of other dos programs that can read zip files.
< 1534123232 508819 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I think DJGPP has its own zip program that's distributed as a .exe file to avoid the chicken-and-egg issue (it distributes most of its files as .zip files)
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< 1534123967 443801 :wob_jonas!b03f188d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm leaving now, sorry. G'nite.
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< 1534127890 637563 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this file format for Free Hero Mesh levels does it looks like good to you?   http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/heromesh.ui/wiki?name=Level+file+format
< 1534129200 559978 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 QUIT :Quit: I seem to have stopped.
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> 1534133733 825374 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57314&oldid=57306 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (-14) 10/* C */ Removed "ASCII"
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> 1534133944 388875 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57315&oldid=57314 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (-18) 10/* S */ Removed "ASCII"
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> 1534134220 771741 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57316&oldid=57315 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (+97) 10/* S */ Fixed TYPO, removed undefined behaviour of string put, changed default value of string get for differentiation between NULL and end of string.
> 1534135954 726565 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57317&oldid=57316 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (+6) 10/* S */ Added "UTF-8"
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> 1534136470 279237 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57318&oldid=57317 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (+28) 10/* C */ Added "UTF-8"
> 1534136528 655123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57319&oldid=57318 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (-92) 10/* Instruction Syntax */ Removed force of UTF-8 to ascii, sorry for all the edits :P
> 1534136909 580161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57320&oldid=57319 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (+67) 10/* S */
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< 1534138857 124876 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if Yurume_______ and zemhill____ are using the same client :P

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< 1534141938 118801 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Natural numbers are found a lot in mathematics, for example in category theory, the finite discrete categories are natural numbers, and addition, multiplication, exponentiation of those categories is like the addition, multiplication, exponentiation of those numbers. Isn't it?
< 1534142288 752697 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zybctmunjcgzhlly PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you mean there are product, sum, and exponential types in common programming languages, then the analogy to numbers can be extended as far as you like
< 1534142300 590046 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zybctmunjcgzhlly PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have negative and fractional types for instance
< 1534142313 241780 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zybctmunjcgzhlly PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're dealing with rational numbers instead of natural numbers
< 1534142350 964141 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zybctmunjcgzhlly PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just need to find computational interpretations that obey the algebraic laws
< 1534142394 56936 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zybctmunjcgzhlly PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.cs.indiana.edu/~sabry/papers/rational.pdf
< 1534142493 546044 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant the product, sum, exponential of categories, although what you mention is something too. I do not expect categories to have fractions, although you could perhaps have a program language with negative and fractional types. Can you have the types corresponding to irrational and complex numbers though?
< 1534142525 904271 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that with exponents and fractions the result can be irrational.
< 1534142575 963374 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will read it
< 1534142604 138053 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkapastel: i think i read that pdf once, and it doesn't actually work if you think about it.
< 1534142628 369529 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zybctmunjcgzhlly PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it executes, but there is a problem in the denotational semantics
< 1534142643 453929 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zybctmunjcgzhlly PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are some problems with e.g. binding a fractional value to itself
< 1534142665 755491 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zybctmunjcgzhlly PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also "divide by zero" at the type level
< 1534142682 692868 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did think you could have factorials if you have a bijective function type, some time before, I don't know quite though exactly
< 1534142686 598567 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah you get contradictions if you try to take it literally.
< 1534142690 96228 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zybctmunjcgzhlly PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the authors of the paper discussed this stuff on reddit
< 1534142699 983738 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't recall exactly which ones i thought of.
< 1534142702 344295 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I read that document too, but do not remember and do not know how to work it either
< 1534142710 929219 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zybctmunjcgzhlly PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's still interesting, and can probably be fixewd
< 1534142726 508073 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zybctmunjcgzhlly PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also keep going with the analogy and do things like radical types, imaginary types, although i'm not sure how
> 1534143203 959080 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:SlackerSnail14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=57321 5* 03SlackerSnail 5* (+29) 10Created page with "[https://ajc2.xyz My website]"
< 1534143211 551309 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is still interesting
< 1534143741 198409 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a article in esolang wiki titled "Gentzen"; how can the variant with linear logic be done, though?
< 1534143956 608206 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That PDF document does say that these negative and fraction types are used with reversible program language, which seem a less problem to me than something that isn't reversible
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> 1534157762 525427 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Entfedern14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57322&oldid=51827 5* 03Zseri 5* (+339) 10cat variation
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> 1534159748 866166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Unfedern14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=57323 5* 03Zseri 5* (+1262) 10Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=Unfedern |paradigms=procedural, declarative, object-oriented |author=[[User:zseri]] |year=[[:Category:2018|2018]] |typesys=static |memsys=variable-bas..."
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> 1534169585 704850 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Sinthorion 5*  10New user account
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> 1534176626 594628 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57324&oldid=57288 5* 03Sinthorion 5* (+128) 10Introduction
< 1534177040 525173 :Phex!~Phex@31.10.167.199 JOIN :#esoteric
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> 1534177968 601939 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck algorithms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57325&oldid=57186 5* 03Sinthorion 5* (+443) 10more input algorithms
> 1534177997 632912 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck algorithms14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57326&oldid=57325 5* 03Sinthorion 5* (-7) 10
< 1534180575 137768 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone here interested in a new brainfuck based game?
< 1534180578 678026 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://bfbignum.github.io/
< 1534180597 482153 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :"single player" unlike bf joust
< 1534180639 504430 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds interesting. It's been so long since I wrote bf though
< 1534180656 22671 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry, you're not writing bf in this one
< 1534180773 136841 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, is the synthesizer supposed to be written in bf?
< 1534180786 19603 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: no, it's written in whatever you want
< 1534180795 515648 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you'll be dividing by 0 a lot.
< 1534180796 382464 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :it must execute BF at some point though, don't you think?
< 1534180804 973949 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :why?
< 1534180827 717409 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would love to see how you solve this with a denominator of 0
< 1534180848 200871 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not even sure what that would imply. are you secretly an agi?
< 1534180874 115423 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the likeliest candidate for the best program is just 57+ signs followed by . (if the output is in ASCII decimal)
< 1534180874 995761 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting that it's based on a BF variant instead of actual BF. I was expecting the number to be a string representation
< 1534180905 726390 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i'm not sure i follow, you're saying the largest number you can output is 57?
< 1534180919 537206 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkapastel: 57 is the ASCII code for '9'.
< 1534180930 434314 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: see rule 4
< 1534180951 323459 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not even a large number by the way
< 1534180965 566426 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkapastel: even easier than; it's all plusses followed by a single .
< 1534180973 129044 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i doubt it would even do well, although you're the second person to try that
< 1534180991 670211 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: okay imagine this, the time limit is 4096 steps
< 1534180998 973450 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're saying the largest number you can output is like 4095?
< 1534181004 918108 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1534181019 902436 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure you don't wanna think about it
< 1534181022 563378 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order for a cell to reach n, it has to be incremented n times
< 1534181031 22509 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck is too limited.
< 1534181033 8054 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900:8319:87ab:f00:d5de QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1534181063 429547 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, maybe i've put the rules the wrong way round, and it shouldn't be limited by time, but it's an adaptation of another game
< 1534181075 475731 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure that's true though, you should be able to do better
< 1534181108 984823 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkapastel: you're welcome to find a flaw in my reasoning
< 1534181116 744119 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree. The only way to increase the value of a cell is by incrementing it. Addition and multiplication are all derived from inc
< 1534181147 565859 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkapastel: you can make this more interesting with a size limit
< 1534181154 406447 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Program size might be a better indicator
< 1534181172 418811 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, maybe the real limit is size and not time
< 1534181183 684719 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just switch to actual BF and look for the decimal representation of the largest number
< 1534181189 527465 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you'll *also* want to have a time limit; otherwise you'll be in busy beaver territroy where you'll have trouble scoring things at all)
< 1534181197 150333 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :bradcomp: that one is not too interesting i think
< 1534181227 534218 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw I should have used '1' instead of '9' earlier, printing 8 more digtits is worth far more than that meager factor of 9)
< 1534181246 146884 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :meagre.
< 1534181253 441479 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me it looked like it was looking for bf BBs
< 1534181262 717582 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :which does sound kind of boring and impossibly difficult
< 1534181273 307266 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you have a target number to reach, in the shortest bf program?
< 1534181287 577779 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BBs?
< 1534181291 394714 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :busy beaver
< 1534181304 98227 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1534181365 843910 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But regardless, the notion of "total number of BF operations executed in the search for the target program." is impossible to pinpoint and shouldn't be part of the rules.
< 1534181384 488644 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it impossible?
< 1534181407 779698 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would think you need to execute bf at some point to evaluate candidate programs
< 1534181480 754307 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkapastel: I might be generating code like [->++<], but the search program would just do x[i+1] = 2*x[i]; x[i] = 0. And possibly never have an explicit tape at all.
< 1534181481 810069 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my program would just poll the wiki entry for braiinfuck numbers
< 1534181529 947504 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkapastel: at which point I would argue that no brainfuck instructions are executed because what the search does isn't expressed in terms of increments, decrements and moving left or right.
< 1534181534 666592 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah, changing representations like that is hard to pin down besides saying "don't do that", but i'm not sure how else to measure work
< 1534181547 631801 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's important to know how much effort was put in to finding a program
< 1534181570 400478 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :the program itself is not interesting
< 1534181575 847853 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's interesting is the method you used to create it
< 1534181594 551715 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkapastel: So measure actual work. CPU time. Fix a bytecode based programming language like Python and look for a way to count the number of bytecode instructions executed...
< 1534181625 693143 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be objective and not depend on how a judge happens to read a particular program.
< 1534181628 498947 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose it could be based on webassembly
< 1534181668 454477 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about number of 'candidate programs' generated. I can imagine there might be synthesizers that don't generate candidate programs though
< 1534181713 246565 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :bradcomp: Yeah I don't see a need for candidate programs as such, at least not written in Brainfuck.
< 1534181755 161482 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: really? why not?
< 1534181770 19089 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't restricting it to BF. You'll need some sort of Intermediate representation at least though
< 1534181810 135607 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900:8319:87ab:f00:d5de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534181885 209795 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkapastel: because I think that working with a higher level language that can be translated to brainfuck but can also be executed efficiently will be much more effective than trying to generate Brainfuck directly, unless you have very stringent size constraints on the code.
< 1534181929 247880 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that just needs to be banned
< 1534181937 580174 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck with that
< 1534181971 321459 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, the best way to do it is to count synthesizer steps i guess
< 1534181982 253320 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course translating to avoid the work count is cheating
< 1534182050 782176 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, one way it could work
< 1534182058 674976 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only feedback is provided by some kind of api harness
< 1534182068 495280 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this still requires standardizing some sort of environment for synthesis
< 1534182077 27317 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess webassembly or something like it is needed
< 1534182384 479073 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe: the programming language is undefined (but happens to be the same one very time), so you can't just write an "equivalent" evaluator
< 1534182416 263044 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the end i don't mind using the honor system, it's just a game
> 1534182420 455507 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57327&oldid=57320 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (+0) 10/* Infinite Cat */
< 1534182469 306018 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also the approach they used in that Sonic-based deep learning game recently
< 1534182480 880434 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://blog.openai.com/retro-contest/
< 1534182486 680563 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were many different sonic games involved
< 1534182508 677935 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :the semantics of instructions could be changed slightly somehow so you can't know them ahead of time
< 1534182538 785114 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :also https://blog.openai.com/learning-dexterity/
< 1534182541 375155 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :"domain randomization"
< 1534182612 492309 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. increment and decrement could have different values, move left/right could have different values
< 1534182669 494869 :MDead!~MDude@97-127-137-99.cdrr.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1534182753 992593 :MDead!~MDude@97-127-137-99.cdrr.qwest.net NICK :MDude
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< 1534184782 583784 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :that thing about just doing `+` over and over and then `.` is not true in general, there's a kind of constant factor slowdown involved in being limited to brainfuck which is going to be overwhelmed at some point by the algorithm you used to make big numbers
< 1534184796 304713 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :limited to increment/decrement*
< 1534184819 673931 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :an additive constant
< 1534184954 960374 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :it couldn't be true otherwise bf wouldn't be turing complete
< 1534184989 219263 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the size of the number you can express with a program is linear in the length of the program how could you be turing complete?
< 1534185043 622041 :steveeJ11!~steveeJ@175.15.128.226 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1534185305 367603 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bf is turing complete because it has nested loops. So the source code necessary to express a bignum can be much smaller than the number, but it will end up with more operations than a straight incrementation program
< 1534185422 628046 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcb1dmnmcpyztw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534185486 652958 :Sousapro29!~Sousapro@61.154.33.66 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534185501 240763 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, i guess i was wrong it's actually always a constant number of operations more than the number you can express
< 1534185635 529651 :Sousapro29!~Sousapro@61.154.33.66 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534185776 818891 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it's not constant, i was way off :<
< 1534185782 538637 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :<bradcomp> bf is turing complete because it has nested loops.
< 1534185784 280803 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
< 1534185810 104961 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could easily not be true
< 1534185811 463196 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :loop programs = primitive recursive functions
< 1534185860 275708 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly you don't need unbounded nesting because a program that implements a UTM has only bounded loop nesting
< 1534185877 886446 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, one loop is enough
< 1534185890 135139 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it has to be unbounded
< 1534185893 161747 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was going to be my next line of attack
< 1534185905 373248 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not suggesting that _all_ TC languages need nested loops. I am just saying that's what does it for BF
< 1534185905 648856 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :why's that
< 1534185940 728373 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact that's provably not the case
< 1534185950 715125 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the other BF feature that would give it completeness?
< 1534185981 210260 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :proof: cap loop length at the max. used by some brainfuck self-interpreter that runs a program encoded on the tape
< 1534185987 91761 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's true that you need nesting (2 levels should suffice) to make BF Turing-complete.
< 1534186018 851235 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can write any finite data without using a loop so you can translate any brainfuck program into this
< 1534186062 67322 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, ok, where's the proof though
< 1534186097 226289 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :my gut feeling is that brainfuck without any loop nesting at all is TC
< 1534186144 657170 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ockrxflfpmczavgk PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does a BF program like that look like?
< 1534186148 387305 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: without nesting, the loop body adds a fixed vector at the current pointer position and shifts the pointer by a fixed amount. so you can solve the halting problem (I'm assuming the tape has only finitely many non-zero cells at each point in time)
< 1534186164 365638 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_minus_-#Depth_two_nesting
< 1534186166 568586 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's a plausible line of argument
< 1534186219 623927 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :While not a proof that it can't be done without nesting, I think that article counts as some evidence
< 1534186265 814080 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. it's been proven to be TC with limited nesting, but not without nesting
< 1534186302 669902 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :absence of proof is not proof of absence
< 1534186338 610336 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that, and explicitly said it isn't a proof
< 1534186361 284215 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah ok depth 1 has solvable halting
< 1534186371 652341 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :(disregarding input)
< 1534186409 669902 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534186424 472383 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah fuck now i'm not sure again
< 1534187153 667943 :gurmble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534187195 436402 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble NICK :Guest76306
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< 1534187195 715007 :gurmble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble NICK :grumble
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> 1534191243 832668 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Turi14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57328&oldid=53311 5* 03Osmarks 5* (-49) 10
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< 1534195276 128348 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
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< 1534202623 303451 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: olist tomorrow, right?
< 1534202732 456320 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There either will be an olist tomorrow or not, so 50-50 chance.
< 1534202851 794 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just googled for that hoping to find the Daily Show clip, instead I find people who are actually confused.
< 1534202949 808789 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/comments/3wsj3a/my_chances_are_always_50_for_everything_am_i_wrong/ ISN'T actually that confused, apparently this person just thinks "50-50" is an appropriate name for "may or may not happen"
< 1534202978 186606 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I only skimmed the comments)
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< 1534212804 172475 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Phantom_Hoover <Phantom_Hoover> gah fuck now i'm not sure again <-- looks solid to me. if a loop gets too far into the zeroed area the value at loop exit test becomes constant.
< 1534212804 455303 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
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< 1534218144 713558 :spiegelau!~spiegelau@82.144.205.57 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1534220880 791458 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
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> 1534221284 24603 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Reversible Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57329&oldid=57313 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+3596) 10Clarifications; Unbounded cells, bounded tape TC
< 1534221306 384888 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Whee*
< 1534221325 741250 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i may have taken ais523's job, somewhat)
< 1534221368 996481 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also eat ->
< 1534221456 748502 :badon23!~badon@103.54.103.63 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1534222083 642517 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: without reading I'd assume it's this: https://xkcd.com/1132/
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< 1534256965 784301 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages?
< 1534256966 140790 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, no messages today.
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< 1534274171 603812 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1534275717 433078 :Sigyn5!~Sigyn@187.69.141.125 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534276250 630724 :Sigyn5!~Sigyn@187.69.141.125 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1534277638 589735 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534277870 83591 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1534278208 783466 :Mikaela1!~Mikaela@190-39-81-252.dyn.dsl.cantv.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534278499 473494 :Mikaela1!~Mikaela@190-39-81-252.dyn.dsl.cantv.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534279328 545899 :hkgit03!~user@2a02:810a:8d00:21ac:752a:9447:d85:3e71 JOIN :#esoteric
> 1534279783 376407 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitter14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57330&oldid=57293 5* 03DMC 5* (-5) 10/* Truth Machine */
< 1534280653 231920 :hkgit03!~user@2a02:810a:8d00:21ac:752a:9447:d85:3e71 PART :#esoteric
< 1534280693 749055 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1534281452 519093 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534282712 11156 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534283187 509474 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1534283650 792124 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534283694 250789 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.131.121.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Quit: gone completely :o
< 1534284353 397315 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A46C74.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1534287250 276702 :Sebastien17!~Sebastien@static.225.234.213.82.ibercom.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534287291 745586 :Sebastien17!~Sebastien@static.225.234.213.82.ibercom.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534287758 361596 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534288612 776333 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534289023 753603 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1534289923 784747 :Mr_Sheesh!~Mr_Sheesh@42-2-226-099.static.netvigator.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534289954 435199 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534289994 371831 :Mr_Sheesh!~Mr_Sheesh@42-2-226-099.static.netvigator.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534290245 400384 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534291415 397918 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534292340 521375 :gitfaf!~gitfaf@223.186.96.232 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534292576 946508 :pwillard12!~pwillard@111.240.223.154 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534292609 182341 :pwillard12!~pwillard@111.240.223.154 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534292683 339812 :siso_!~siso_@125.165.110.199 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534292764 281650 :siso_!~siso_@125.165.110.199 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534293823 718707 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534294131 697754 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1534294839 410989 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534294867 453862 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages?
< 1534294867 747092 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, no messages today.
< 1534295174 363117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit
< 1534295676 398812 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.251.28 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534295678 402580 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.251.28 QUIT :Changing host
< 1534295678 424912 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534295729 661671 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1534297094 790304 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534297210 747320 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534297384 861682 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1534297467 688891 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534297841 880083 :mort24!~mort@41.59.193.61 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534297883 247752 :mort24!~mort@41.59.193.61 QUIT :Killed (Unit193 (Spam is not permitted on freenode.))
< 1534297906 984830 :gitfaf!~gitfaf@223.186.96.232 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534298548 495466 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534299111 867681 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm silent day
> 1534299504 705087 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Stun Step14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57331&oldid=57066 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+339) 10/* Ideas for TC proof */ RBF done
> 1534299584 256171 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Stun Step14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57332&oldid=57331 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+51) 10/* Ideas for TC proof */ Make that a section link
< 1534299974 721252 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bybtdzcoxxefkpij JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534300310 431461 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534300577 577511 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1534300928 168386 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving...
< 1534302457 900476 :Turbo-Folker!~Turbo-Fol@223.157.173.199 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534302498 992236 :Turbo-Folker!~Turbo-Fol@223.157.173.199 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1534302744 662843 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534304445 914278 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534304756 908114 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1534304778 685556 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534305286 631221 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1534306759 951413 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534307036 830958 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1534307923 726535 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1534308017 412477 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534310024 732697 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534310303 760548 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1534311215 394575 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534311314 736153 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534311692 951617 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534312014 778114 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1534312570 966962 :MartesZibellina!~MartesZib@180.226.12.61.ap.yournet.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534312866 50972 :MartesZibellina!~MartesZib@180.226.12.61.ap.yournet.ne.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534313247 396466 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534313495 388097 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534313742 263898 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bybtdzcoxxefkpij QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1534313957 962838 :wob_jonas!b03f18fb@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.251 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1534315154 798278 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-npzgmwiivwryvbgo JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534315332 431976 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534315970 520558 :Guest26437!~PuppyKun@170.78.49.79 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534316428 771836 :Guest26437!~PuppyKun@170.78.49.79 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1534316543 577241 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-137-99.cdrr.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1534316746 510025 :lunaaa!~lunaaa@222.221.169.72 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534316934 767082 :lunaaa!~lunaaa@222.221.169.72 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1534318100 681421 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534318529 95227 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the chances of an olist yesterday are actually 0% hth
< 1534318791 295698 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534318945 788149 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534319217 680627 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534320040 733522 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534320416 235467 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later
< 1534320699 543773 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534321789 987626 :WSPR25!~WSPR@116.252.105.137 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534321942 883074 :WSPR25!~WSPR@116.252.105.137 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534322106 568588 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-akuoycnrjwfjxgsy QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1534323014 399077 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534323275 404775 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534323389 268144 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534324686 667557 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-sqinqpcweyazvftq QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1534324703 295328 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcb1dmnmcpyztw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534324951 43924 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-fflzrzargfwxwlcr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534325223 91930 :irinix29!~irinix@139.228.221.170 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534325481 636639 :irinix29!~irinix@139.228.221.170 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534326236 638675 :Yatekii24!~Yatekii@156.216.32.110 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534326530 832221 :Yatekii24!~Yatekii@156.216.32.110 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1534327467 726950 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534327829 543193 :futileSS!ac67ed13@gateway/web/freenode/ip.172.103.237.19 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534328069 801085 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534331007 553329 :futileSS!ac67ed13@gateway/web/freenode/ip.172.103.237.19 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1534331915 721734 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.156.245.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534332002 736105 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
> 1534332644 214307 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57333&oldid=57327 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (+9) 10/* Infinite Cat */
> 1534332743 729648 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57334&oldid=57333 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (+2) 10/* Hello, world! */
> 1534332948 881167 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57335&oldid=57334 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (+2) 10/* Truth-machine */
> 1534332962 912052 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57336&oldid=57304 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (+2) 10/* Surtic */
< 1534333624 839153 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534333626 708756 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534334516 451769 :Turner92!~Turner92@211.217.40.91 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534334645 119571 :Turner92!~Turner92@211.217.40.91 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534335968 711467 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-137-99.cdrr.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534336146 934270 :Nothing4You19!~Nothing4Y@112.197.195.222 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534336257 819308 :Nothing4You19!~Nothing4Y@112.197.195.222 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534337101 12996 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.156.245.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1534337146 709874 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.156.245.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534338251 817782 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cszzhnagjqlrmxkr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534339031 661167 :krushia!~krushia@node-kq6.pool-101-108.dynamic.totbb.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534339315 947148 :krushia!~krushia@node-kq6.pool-101-108.dynamic.totbb.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534339685 679509 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-fflzrzargfwxwlcr QUIT :Changing host
< 1534339685 679569 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534339685 743856 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Changing host
< 1534339685 769552 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-fflzrzargfwxwlcr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534340879 499324 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534342393 744431 :Guest4246911!~Guest4246@117.54.112.18 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534342547 176048 :Guest4246911!~Guest4246@117.54.112.18 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534343250 36276 :Syfer!~Syfer@218.153.219.11 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534343342 319093 :Syfer!~Syfer@218.153.219.11 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534345199 824777 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534347209 667233 :jix!~jix@jix.omnomnom.pizza JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534347421 650055 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1534349092 81594 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
< 1534351334 403416 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534351532 595662 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1534351544 689928 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534351610 814997 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Client Quit
< 1534352357 866525 :SuchWow6!~SuchWow@41.43.85.160 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534352455 39407 :SuchWow6!~SuchWow@41.43.85.160 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534353085 853267 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534353617 441235 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534353995 404804 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534355504 723942 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534356757 932992 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534356763 713620 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534357464 896623 :Xe15!~Xe@27.156.213.63 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534357468 647813 :Xe15!~Xe@27.156.213.63 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534358765 313606 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534359034 296075 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1534361224 891821 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1534361372 704745 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534361377 948166 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a QUIT :Changing host
< 1534361377 948235 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534362223 129375 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534363083 709235 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1534363704 60654 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-137-99.cdrr.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)
< 1534364418 750228 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534365219 851139 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534365342 201086 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-npzgmwiivwryvbgo QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1534365518 926381 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1534365773 578840 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit
< 1534366307 13929 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :lupus
< 1534366317 233647 :lupus!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin
< 1534366616 216311 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534366800 576752 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed PART :#esoteric
< 1534367341 680913 :issyl023!~issyl0@112.0.219.198 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534367419 366481 :issyl023!~issyl0@112.0.219.198 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1534367949 711080 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.121.149.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534368147 696419 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.156.245.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534368267 428804 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.72.70.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534368438 749456 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.121.149.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1534368614 425058 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534368738 544863 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1534368785 385441 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.72.70.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534368874 897637 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534369034 225092 :hkgit03!~user@2a02:810a:8d00:21ac:752a:9447:d85:3e71 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534369419 436910 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534370228 294538 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcb1dmnmcpyztw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1534370264 671872 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@185.131.67.105 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534370435 390210 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534370797 663640 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534370865 401728 :the_Q_!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534370865 468024 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1534370883 346753 :hkgit03!~user@2a02:810a:8d00:21ac:752a:9447:d85:3e71 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534371027 723499 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@185.131.67.105 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534371341 669440 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534372327 440749 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera NICK :AttentionQueen
< 1534372545 800300 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534372714 318324 :the_Q_!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PART :#esoteric
< 1534372730 375295 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534373722 353581 :bigpresh12!~bigpresh@36.234.45.138 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534373836 336296 :bigpresh12!~bigpresh@36.234.45.138 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534374638 257112 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534374885 188808 :impomatic!~digital_w@host109-150-0-69.range109-150.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534375873 382860 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534375896 534527 :AttentionQueen!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera NICK :izabera
< 1534375937 700318 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534376555 391844 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534377261 44918 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
> 1534378693 693384 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Arrows14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57337&oldid=57311 5* 03HereToAnnoy 5* (-224) 10Minor changes
< 1534378721 371535 :ssbr22!~ssbr@85-237-238-96.static.orange.sk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534378744 541033 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534378757 869938 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey everyone.
< 1534378769 901493 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a Big Ol' Problem (in the sense of a "math problem").
< 1534378792 104704 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given an undecidable decision problem, turn it into a programming language with I/O.
< 1534378833 123734 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interactive I/O, even.
< 1534378948 211980 :ssbr22!~ssbr@85-237-238-96.static.orange.sk QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534379011 347852 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's the particular decision problem I have in mind today.
< 1534379023 166903 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given a finite presentation of a group, is the group finite?
< 1534379051 737864 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can turn that into a programming language pretty trivially.
< 1534379064 407930 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A program is a finite presentation of a group. The program halts if and only if the generated group is finite.
< 1534379095 28154 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there's no I/O there.
< 1534379155 326014 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So how do you extend this programming language, keeping within its spirit, in order to give it I/O?
< 1534379236 453947 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's an initial idea for some output. You can mark some of the generators, and when your program halts, it outputs the orders of the marked generators.
< 1534380123 626682 :dysfigured29!~dysfigure@170.247.203.224 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534380413 526246 :dysfigured29!~dysfigure@170.247.203.224 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534383193 706171 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: GNOMON CHICKEN
< 1534386698 849426 :Guest97794!~Guest9779@dfm60.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534386964 609120 :Guest97794!~Guest9779@dfm60.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534388885 43262 :SlashLife10!~SlashLife@197.38.183.162 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534389221 650682 :SlashLife10!~SlashLife@197.38.183.162 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1534389798 484131 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rmgemitjlwvgpdbj JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534390710 375409 :earlz17!~earlz@116.204.69.232 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534390734 498102 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Netscape 4 on Windows 3.1, when it sends applets keyUp, seems to fill the upper bytes of the key code with garbage
< 1534390788 982680 :earlz17!~earlz@116.204.69.232 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534392965 489800 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net QUIT :Quit: the creeping crawling chaos will return.
< 1534392990 871104 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1534396267 277367 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57338&oldid=57335 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (-1) 10/* 99 bottles of beer */ Found one small error (fixed) using the interpreter
< 1534396493 915013 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534397515 765329 :Reincarnate28!~Reincarna@120.40.23.77 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534397716 637744 :Reincarnate28!~Reincarna@120.40.23.77 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534398604 571603 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534399538 664611 :lutki_!~lutki_@84-24-245-190.fibertel.com.ar JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534399692 684260 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534399824 687516 :lutki_!~lutki_@84-24-245-190.fibertel.com.ar QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534399973 693531 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1534400420 550246 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving...
< 1534400542 409453 :trout!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534400700 547770 :Miatreya!31c5cd92@gateway/web/freenode/ip.49.197.205.146 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534400707 310145 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1534401099 549376 :Miatreya!31c5cd92@gateway/web/freenode/ip.49.197.205.146 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1534401303 432154 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534401906 839636 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cszzhnagjqlrmxkr QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1534402628 709040 :trout!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1534404947 574593 :dp322!~dp3@61.83.117.126 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534404968 812358 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534405096 851536 :dp322!~dp3@61.83.117.126 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1534406580 600421 :impomatic!~digital_w@host109-150-0-69.range109-150.btcentralplus.com PART :#esoteric
< 1534406713 642662 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534406825 945027 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1534407089 266723 :copumpkin[m]!copumpkinm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-swlhqqxehxcpfcad QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534407102 268287 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble QUIT :Quit: This XML file does not appear to have any style information associated with it. The document tree is shown below.
< 1534407356 913101 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1534407523 410624 :copumpkin[m]!copumpkinm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ujlzkslnyogehmgx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534407736 955111 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1534407917 732345 :Natechip!~Natechip@2.230.83.142 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534408179 946032 :Natechip!~Natechip@2.230.83.142 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534408292 877784 :gurmble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534408326 441133 :gurmble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble NICK :grumble
< 1534409401 773033 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534409437 252574 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: re undecidable program to programming language, see https://esolangs.org/wiki/But_Is_It_Art%3F which is a perfect example for that sort of thing IMO
< 1534409548 300037 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tom7's new what? darn, I can't recover lambdabot's message and didn't read it before I closed the window. shachaf, oerjan: who said that and what was it?
< 1534409603 461975 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know who sent the message
< 1534409609 243309 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I didn't see tom7's new anything
< 1534409652 548495 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not mentioned on his radar or his youtube
< 1534409792 986728 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Do you mean ZM~~ #        Printy#     C with ABC!? because I have seen it in 2017 and talked with you about it and even wrote messages to tom7 a short writeup on the esowiki. so you must be meaning something newer
< 1534409929 536760 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have seen "Reverse emulating the NES" too of course, and it's great.  I'm not really satisfied with the name "reverse emulating", but tom7 always gives such whimsical names, like the unibycle
< 1534409992 779087 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: He made a 48-hour game thing
< 1534410010 637677 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, he did? linky?
< 1534410020 92829 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no blog post yet, but he must be tired after the 48 hours
< 1534410038 701253 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://runningoutof.spacebar.org/
< 1534410069 157407 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've played his wire connector games, and wikiplia (which doesn't really count), and the nested falling squares, but not any of the others IIRC
< 1534410079 162092 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and a bit of the original Escape
< 1534410094 600250 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only the wire connector and the falling squares are 48 hour or 24 hour ones
< 1534410098 609859 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall which
< 1534410101 369615 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be 72 horus
< 1534410130 51745 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you happen to know what the prompt of the ludum dare was? tom7 always forgets to say
< 1534410168 879916 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :star trek?
< 1534410216 687947 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently the theme was "running out of space"
< 1534410238 569748 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see
< 1534410245 927909 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is also the name of the game, and gur znva zrpunavp bs gur tnzr?
< 1534410292 228909 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he made an inventory management game with too few inventory space? after the wire connecting game had a softlock bug where you ran out of space to place the item you picked up? nice
< 1534410295 659346 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must try this later
< 1534410331 685227 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knowing that that's the name of the game puts it in a slightly different light.
< 1534410367 908003 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the four words at the bottom are clickable too!
< 1534410410 318 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't look like the standard galactic alphabet, but there's a chance it's a simple substitution cipher, knowing tom7
< 1534410415 561318 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/name of the game/theme of the competition/, I mean. I already knew the other thing.
< 1534410423 248002 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a simple substitution cipher.
< 1534410429 786527 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't everyone in the galaxy use standard galactic alphabet though?
< 1534410434 599500 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is this particular alien different
< 1534410462 130546 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's standard galactic alphabet?
< 1534410490 546262 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a simple substitution cipher for the 26 ascii letters plus one or two extra from the Commander Keen series
< 1534410515 514988 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.shikadi.net/keenwiki/Standard_Galactic_Alphabet tells more than I could
< 1534410543 715723 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Commander Keen games have labels of it everywhere, including "EXIT" signs at the ends of the level
< 1534410551 145919 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly one or two typos too
< 1534410568 69124 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also gives the full alphabet in some hidden place in case you can't figure out
< 1534410675 122622 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the Keen 5 ending sequence shows a letter from the big bad of game 3 and Keen's arch-enemy that reveals that Keen did not kill him at the end-boss of game 3 as you thought, only his "android dummy", so he's still alive and plotting
< 1534410678 808272 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://runningoutof.spacebar.org/spacefont.png
< 1534410724 516772 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, don't spoil it!
< 1534410734 570450 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's enoguh clues
< 1534410751 461601 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already figured out what three of the four bottom labels should mean
< 1534410766 789243 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tom7's nice consistent style of giving easy clues in such a game helps a lot
< 1534410772 756343 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :railroading but very enjoyable
< 1534410789 305835 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, maybe only 2 of the 4 labels
< 1534410795 357191 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :leftmost and rightmost are obvious
< 1534410805 137820 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the third one doesn't look like it can be "inventory"
< 1534410829 913401 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I have my trusty frequency dictionary grepping with backreferences for these cases
< 1534410842 896746 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :often works
< 1534410897 963446 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the English frequency dict compiled by http://wordlist.aspell.net/12dicts/ of course
< 1534410947 848922 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recommend it for all English word problems
< 1534411265 215567 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully if I restart, the hover text of the fire extinguisher helps
< 1534411282 319891 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to get back to this later, but I'm busy and really have to work and rest instead
< 1534411285 371015 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for pointing it out
< 1534411308 134829 :rkta!~rkta@187.111.219.171 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534411536 301167 :rkta!~rkta@187.111.219.171 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534411542 959443 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not linked from the Ludum Dare section from http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~tom7/ yet, so I don't know how you figured out it even exists. You must be subscribed to some secret news source I don't know of.
< 1534411555 809736 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: do we need a tom7list? we have like four people who care about his projects
< 1534412731 159805 :ChickenSoup_!~ChickenSo@152.0.112.146 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534412827 218695 :Guest3664!~nurupo@cpe-66-108-146-159.nyc.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534412829 145950 :Guest3664!~nurupo@cpe-66-108-146-159.nyc.res.rr.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1534412961 441450 :letty8!~letty@94.51.13.232 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534413202 652905 :ChickenSoup_!~ChickenSo@152.0.112.146 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1534413656 965913 :ozy1!~ozy@180.255.12.0 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534413882 496933 :ozy1!~ozy@180.255.12.0 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
> 1534413884 341462 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Mhmdyasr 5*  10New user account
> 1534414834 204273 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Infinite loop14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57339&oldid=56735 5* 03A 5* (+154) 10List all 3 possibilities for creating an infinite loop.
> 1534415075 860670 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57340&oldid=57324 5* 03Mhmdyasr 5* (+144) 10/* Introductions */
< 1534415264 303327 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: shachaf pointes out http://runningoutof.spacebar.org/ , a new Tom 7 Ludum Dare game
< 1534415282 920326 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who else is there I should notify?
< 1534415343 20555 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: ^
< 1534415376 806872 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: ^
< 1534415377 18362 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who is tom7?
< 1534415430 822334 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~tom7/ , guy with some amazing projects, some related to computers or mathematics (he has a PhD in maths), some to marathon running
< 1534415548 530489 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :has ran a marathon with a birthday cake once, and once completed a marathon in a full hockey player costume with skates http://radar.spacebar.org/f/a/weblog/comment/1/1100
< 1534415559 420265 :pathfinder19!~pathfinde@117.241.97.163 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534415568 401709 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also writes articles for sigbovik, a joke conference
> 1534415620 976213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Infinite loop14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57341&oldid=57339 5* 03A 5* (+82) 10
< 1534415621 429900 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that one wasn't a marathon, only 10 kilometers
< 1534415637 144036 :pathfinder19!~pathfinde@117.241.97.163 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534415676 479035 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ran in a shark costume once and in an escaped convict costume once. that's the four running in costumes project that he did.
< 1534415688 45371 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah no, there's a fifth. hazmat.
< 1534415719 787516 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can find all five from the hockey link
> 1534415728 37358 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57342&oldid=57272 5* 03A 5* (-1096) 10Blanked the page
< 1534415757 635370 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also keeps up posting "every month" to her blog since 2000, which is quite an accomplishment
< 1534415785 373370 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :had to backdate some entries by as much as two days lately to make it work, but sticks to the at least one post for every month
< 1534415907 923456 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think most of the running projects were 10 kilometers
< 1534416083 661573 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait, there should be a sixth
< 1534416096 261441 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a cake costume (not running with a cake, but running as a cake) too somewhere
< 1534416200 556066 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://radar.spacebar.org/?month=10&year=2015 is the cake costume
< 1534416240 276497 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait, there's a seventh
< 1534416243 289233 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one with the four dolls
< 1534416278 858924 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like an interesting fellow
< 1534416312 480686 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so at least seven costume running. wow, I didn't realize there were so many
< 1534416369 508098 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus no
< 1534416382 609362 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a balloon one and a slippers + bathroom cloak one too
< 1534416393 327391 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bathrobe
< 1534416401 164460 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://radar.spacebar.org/f/a/weblog/category/1/races
< 1534416566 464494 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ that should show all the costume running, if he categorizes well
< 1534417403 28832 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm cute little game
< 1534417675 928206 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: who else do we ping on the tom7list? I think I forgot someone
< 1534417765 342084 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many typos are there? it's kind of embarrassing that there's one in one of the commands :)
< 1534417814 48905 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I dunno, ask shachaf
< 1534417881 99183 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wsinomzaaswkhiru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534418071 277202 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :// XXX remove "cheat" keys
< 1534418090 607400 :Cronus9!~Cronus@77.236.74.191 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534418182 948148 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: he has those in other games too. so what. they're useful for debugging. if you play you can abstain from using them if you want.
< 1534418244 839059 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's the only typo. There really isn't all that much text :)
< 1534418279 789047 :Cronus9!~Cronus@77.236.74.191 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534418426 655422 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: isn't there hover text for all items?
< 1534418473 966607 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: if there really is a typo, email tom7 because maybe he hasn't noticed it yet
< 1534418604 907773 :mub!~mub@121.158.182.4 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534418713 61836 :mub!~mub@121.158.182.4 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534419848 480899 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534420446 674264 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534420619 91101 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@2604:6000:b188:9800:5c60:f89d:8567:3cf3 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534420625 852868 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@2604:6000:b188:9800:5c60:f89d:8567:3cf3 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1534421215 814092 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534422088 926509 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534423170 248394 :GeekDude12!~GeekDude@59.173.156.105 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534423361 341827 :GeekDude12!~GeekDude@59.173.156.105 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534424863 96981 :AimHere6!~AimHere@119.118.192.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534424931 282012 :AimHere6!~AimHere@119.118.192.53 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
> 1534426799 431021 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Asu` 5*  10New user account
< 1534427372 101753 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534428180 13449 :aphel!~aphel@148.103.228.218 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534428334 291311 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534428442 379507 :aphel!~aphel@148.103.228.218 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534429003 12802 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534430425 205948 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534431390 547687 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534431395 412239 :rain2!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534431598 88572 :Chex4!~Chex@201.248.209.92 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534431824 562140 :Chex4!~Chex@201.248.209.92 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534432001 4018 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1534432258 395194 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534432557 703552 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534432787 33594 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534434480 845884 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:5845:6ffc:b0b5:2bc7 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534434579 804448 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534434640 704107 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534436507 673448 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534437062 757662 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1534437073 672265 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1534437472 777565 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534437654 514940 :linuxmodder22!~linuxmodd@bel60-1-82-233-56-167.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534437654 948262 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534437692 788802 :linuxmodder22!~linuxmodd@bel60-1-82-233-56-167.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534438282 564618 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86CACA.versanet.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534439993 2579 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcb1dmnmcpyztw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534440540 438119 :sparklefarkle!~sparklefa@182.112.255.246 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534440577 713099 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534440581 644412 :sparklefarkle!~sparklefa@182.112.255.246 QUIT :Killed (Unit193 (Spam is not permitted on freenode.))
< 1534440612 564235 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ping
< 1534440613 456123 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong
< 1534440625 818232 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? angband
< 1534440626 840156 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Angband is Morgoth's second dungeon. When the valar finally defeated Morgoth, they were too lazy to go to for 100% completion, so some evil spirits in Angband survived for a sequel.
< 1534440655 546089 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grep -Rlsi morgoth wisdom
< 1534440656 143990 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep: invalid option -- ' ' \ Usage: grep [OPTION]... PATTERN [FILE]... \ Try 'grep --help' for more information.
< 1534440669 595128 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` grep -ERlsi morgoth wisdom
< 1534440671 550946 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/angband
< 1534440719 194387 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? utumno
< 1534440720 339610 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :utumno? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1534440734 588982 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? udun
< 1534440735 583409 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :udun? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1534440740 462230 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Udûn
< 1534440741 809018 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Udûn? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1534440749 931319 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1534440762 16968 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the entry for angband should mention the first dungeon
< 1534442731 873217 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Angband is Morgoth's second dungeon. When the valar finally defeated Morgoth in the first dungeon Utumno, they were too lazy to go to for 100% completion, so some evil spirits in Angband survived for a sequel.
< 1534442733 943821 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relearned 'angband': Angband is Morgoth's second dungeon. When the valar finally defeated Morgoth in the first dungeon Utumno, they were too lazy to go to for 100% completion, so some evil spirits in Angband survived for a sequel.
< 1534442741 110875 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's not right
< 1534442763 681584 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Angband is Morgoth's second dungeon (the first was Utumno). When the valar finally defeated Morgoth, they were too lazy to go to for 100% completion, so some evil spirits in Angband survived for a sequel.
< 1534442765 966671 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relearned 'angband': Angband is Morgoth's second dungeon (the first was Utumno). When the valar finally defeated Morgoth, they were too lazy to go to for 100% completion, so some evil spirits in Angband survived for a sequel.
< 1534442803 445596 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I think it's deliberately confusing or something
< 1534442807 750862 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't seem to be right
< 1534443008 255602 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't the humans alone. Beren the human and Galadriel the elf took part in that fight with the valar, and they defeated Morgoth there but didn't utterly destroyed him, so his final defeat was the miracle in Numenor.
< 1534443030 861575 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't put all that in a wisdom, but it shouldn't say just the valar
< 1534443057 901600 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Angband is Morgoth's second dungeon (the first was Utumno). When the greater and lesser people of Middle-Earth together finally defeated Morgoth, they were too lazy to go to for 100% completion, so some evil spirits in Angband survived for a sequel.
< 1534443058 860325 :graingert19!~graingert@190.112.252.133 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534443059 992501 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relearned 'angband': Angband is Morgoth's second dungeon (the first was Utumno). When the greater and lesser people of Middle-Earth together finally defeated Morgoth, they were too lazy to go to for 100% completion, so some evil spirits in Angband survived for a sequel.
< 1534443091 799400 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Angband is Morgoth's second dungeon (the first was Utumno). When the greater and lesser people of Middle-Earth together defeated Morgoth in Angband, they were too lazy to go to for 100% completion, so some evil spirits in Angband survived for a sequel, and Morgoth himself recovered and was the final boss in Numenor.
< 1534443094 92301 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relearned 'angband': Angband is Morgoth's second dungeon (the first was Utumno). When the greater and lesser people of Middle-Earth together defeated Morgoth in Angband, they were too lazy to go to for 100% completion, so some evil spirits in Angband survived for a sequel, and Morgoth himself recovered and was the final boss in Numenor.
< 1534443099 934985 :graingert19!~graingert@190.112.252.133 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1534443120 1021 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really the final boss, more like the big bad
< 1534443134 147040 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Angband is Morgoth's second dungeon (the first was Utumno). When the greater and lesser people of Middle-Earth together defeated Morgoth in Angband, they were too lazy to go to for 100% completion, so some evil spirits in Angband survived for a sequel, and Morgoth himself recovered and arrived to Numenor.
< 1534443136 318911 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relearned 'angband': Angband is Morgoth's second dungeon (the first was Utumno). When the greater and lesser people of Middle-Earth together defeated Morgoth in Angband, they were too lazy to go to for 100% completion, so some evil spirits in Angband survived for a sequel, and Morgoth himself recovered and arrived to Numenor.
< 1534443138 638627 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't have to tell the ending
< 1534443145 396171 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that it wasn't a final defeat
< 1534443161 249821 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other evil spirits include Sauron of course
< 1534443177 260454 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that look about right?
< 1534443227 246638 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? wisdom
< 1534443228 384329 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and, uh, that other one? It started with, like, an ø?
< 1534443417 630659 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ø
< 1534443418 815791 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ø is not going anywhere.
< 1534444106 928744 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://s22.postimg.cc/5atvbynox/Screenshot-1533.png strange, I’ve seen that face before
< 1534444239 690643 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ørjan
< 1534444240 781621 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your pal Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. Sometimes he publishes papers without noticing it.
< 1534444263 486735 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? oerjan
< 1534444264 561411 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your omnidryad saddle principal golfing toe-obsessed "Darth Ook" oerjan the shifty evil grinch is a hazy expert in minor compaction. Also a Groadep who minces Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance. His ark-nemesis is Noah. He twice punned without noticing it.
< 1534444291 438592 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I’ve already read that, it seems
< 1534444298 467882 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? örjan
< 1534444299 537716 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :örjan? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1534444434 123531 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, örjan is the name of the hypothetic third twin, but he probably doesn't exist
< 1534444438 819747 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? e̊rjan
< 1534444439 971851 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :e̊rjan? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1534444447 122617 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/hetic/hetical/
< 1534444494 771278 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1534444498 906152 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that even a letter?
< 1534444591 959333 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode e̊
< 1534444592 634280 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+0065 LATIN SMALL LETTER E] [U+030A COMBINING RING ABOVE]
< 1534444615 343300 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's cheating
< 1534444672 645148 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be also ɵrjan, œrjan, ɶrjan(?) and maybe an aliens named ǫrjan and ᴔrjɐn
< 1534444736 513044 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: maybe there is a precombined one, I just don’t see it in ol’ Charmap with DejaVu Sans
< 1534444738 710801 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think anyone uses that, not even those crazy conlangers that make conlangs with like nine vowel tones that must be distinguished and diacritics used to write them.
< 1534444757 661657 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ӧerjan
< 1534444794 138686 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait that's not a latin character
< 1534444808 957791 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? indifference
< 1534444810 43875 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :indifference? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1534444820 980736 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ø̈erjan)
< 1534444821 779444 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody cared to make that entry
< 1534444822 151822 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm very hazy here, but I think think I've seen are two of those crazy conlangs, one with like nine and one with only eight, but the former uses tones for grammar and the latter for vocabulary and the former has only like five vowel values but the latter has as a larger inventory of crazy diphtong vowels than mandarin.
< 1534444840 779131 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: there's the volapuk version, Ꞝ
< 1534444852 812230 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eight tones are too much(((
< 1534444886 100946 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least for a lazy native of a non-tonal language
< 1534444891 661136 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: conlangers used to not care so much about technical limitations
< 1534444894 430939 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, natural languages probably don't distinguish more than six
< 1534444913 403837 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: I think they *know* about the technical limitations and deliberately want to exceed them
< 1534444919 563998 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least a bit
< 1534444924 263183 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or push the boundary
< 1534444924 491404 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ꞝrjan
< 1534444991 471558 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, ᴔ? is that only IPA or one of those used for writing systems constructed for africian languages?
< 1534445042 453488 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably neither. it's that crazy
< 1534445045 787675 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a turned oe ligature.
< 1534445090 50957 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like Ꜳ
< 1534445095 459724 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ꜲꜲꜲꜲꜲꜲꜲꜲꜲꜲꜲꜲꜲꜲꜲ
< 1534445107 796788 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there also are conlangs for a nonhuman speech apparati (uh I think this form is totally wrong), e. g. with many more places of articulation or “nassalities” or something multitonal…
< 1534445169 180267 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably neither => yeah AFAIK it’s in no version of IPA yet and is not planned to be there
< 1534445173 230865 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: yeah, like https://stickman.qntm.org/comics.php?n=178 although Sam never made a real conlang for it, only gave translations
< 1534445205 235583 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1534445212 923638 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, (WARNING DON'T READ IF YOU'RE SQUEAMISH) a few humans have a split tongue as deliberate body modification
< 1534445218 247250 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he wasn’t concerned enough!
< 1534445257 525269 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm does a split tongue open new phonetic possibilities?..
< 1534445265 657156 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, he deliberately left something for his fans
< 1534445287 26277 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was joking)
< 1534445321 4102 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I've no clue. I also don't understand the phonetic possibilities for just ordinary humans, and already have problems with things like French and English
< 1534445327 572831 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those are relatively tame
< 1534445328 499514 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw I read his Ra sequence and some other things
< 1534445354 442239 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Fine Structure was too much complicated
< 1534445364 697455 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to dive in
< 1534445371 382652 :badon19!~badon@139.228.49.56 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534445378 158322 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I enjoyed his early fiction more, but probably mostly because of nostalgia. stickmanstickman introduced me to webcomics.
< 1534445389 780409 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was already completed when I first read it
< 1534445403 689275 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting
< 1534445433 790232 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in retrospect, after reading lots of other webcomics, it's not a very good one, but I still love it
< 1534445458 77994 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I haven’t known of it before it was mentioned here)
< 1534445512 437701 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, he posted a new strip every day (except one he missed for technical reasons and inserted later), and his filler material was consistently better than the filler material some other webcomic artists like Jeph used to "post a strip every day"
< 1534445537 793400 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has some charm, as of those episodes I saw
< 1534445549 687211 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kept it up for exactly 1000 strips, which idea he got from Tailsteak's first webcomic. Tailsteak has since completed a second webcomic at exactly 1000 strips, but it's less enjoyable than the first one.
< 1534445572 329246 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, there’s a second?
< 1534445575 570171 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly Jeph kept at the daily posting for longer, and he actually draws good art
< 1534445581 193795 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: and he started a third
< 1534445613 460711 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: find the links on http://math.bme.hu/~ambrus/sc/grn , search for Tailsteak
< 1534445623 42335 :badon19!~badon@139.228.49.56 QUIT :Killed (Unit193 (Spam is not permitted on freenode.))
< 1534445633 247308 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the third one ain't linked yet
< 1534445653 642086 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw does someone know an English interjection dictionary? In critical moments, I lack in descriptions)
< 1534445792 200913 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: thanks for the link
< 1534445957 256498 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you people think, does an illustrated serial written in a conlang not described prior, has a chance?
< 1534446079 724762 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: certainly could be a cool way of creating and demonstrating a conlang
< 1534446114 298359 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: actually I think there was a webcomic with a conlang in it
< 1534446145 791095 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aarseniv: tailsteak's 0/1 and sam's stickmanstickman, like many other webcomics, started as disjoint and a coherent plot got invented later. tailsteak then experimented with a number of smaller webcomics, but took neither very far and didn't complete any but very short ones.
< 1534446189 53619 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when he eventually started Leftover Soup, he planned it, the comic starts with a plot from strip 1 and takes it to a resolution. also still posted daily, but with a larger buffer, and the buffer was public for some reason.
< 1534446211 724232 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the comic images of the buffer was, not the annotation and transcript
< 1534446268 630784 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: you’re very knowledgeable :)
< 1534446286 790382 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, more like obsessed and had more free time back then
< 1534446314 931035 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not knowledgable in the plot details of Fine Structure or Ra, but I remember most of StickManStickMan
< 1534446349 617164 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: yeah, it was this one http://unicornjelly.com/
< 1534446372 804876 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: guy invented an alien language with its own logographic writing system
< 1534446377 601626 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not enough to quickly find strips I want to reference though, so sometimes I think I should take the time to make a transcript or at least keywords per script at least for the random sequences of interlude (filler, non-plot, plot is waiting, joke a day) strips
< 1534446438 147759 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that reminds me
< 1534446497 819757 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in one of these countries like Switzerland or Belgium or possibly Finland, where the culture actually embraces that the country uses two or three languages and people put bilingual signs in their private property not because of a law but because they genuinely enjoy it
< 1534446522 239204 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unlike, you know, Québec, where there are a lot of radicals saying that there should be only one language used there, French)
< 1534446539 404141 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially in countries where the two languages use the same script and same digits
< 1534446589 531151 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it ever happen that people write price tags with the same price in the same currency listed twice, because both of the languages has an idea of the only one right way to write an amount of currency,
< 1534446614 513820 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they differ in the value or placement of the currency sign(s), how decimal fractions are denoted, or even the thousands separator?
< 1534446618 627467 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534446628 776574 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not, can we somehow engineer such a situation in one of those countries?
< 1534446761 604300 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The friendly bilingual situation very rarely occurs in some of these programming libraries so they have a C++ and a Python API of all important functions, both developped and released together by the main developers, rather than a Python API (or C++ API for a C library) written later,
< 1534446787 507945 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not exactly analog, because the library itself is implemented all in C++, you don't need a python interpreter to use the C++ API in full
< 1534446812 102453 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\_: oh
< 1534446858 68237 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, is imagining such a price tag an esoteric thing in the sense this channel uses it?
< 1534446966 223732 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The orthography rulebook of Hungarian by the National Academy of Sciences (MTA) is very particular that the abbreviation for forint is written as Ft without a period, which makes it a double exception from normal rules of abbreviations, but makes sense if you think of it as similar to physics units notation
< 1534446974 932893 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not even then
< 1534447006 651099 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way it would be still not italic and without the dot, but the upper case is not explained by anything other than the historical point of distinguishing it from fillér more clearly
< 1534447377 263437 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell boily polygod comes out of beta tomorrow. they say multiplayer actually works now.
< 1534447377 453771 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
> 1534448166 755911 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57343&oldid=57340 5* 03Asu` 5* (+115) 10/* Introductions */
> 1534448192 140320 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck implementations14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57344&oldid=57309 5* 03Asu` 5* (+90) 10/* Implementations including Hardware */
< 1534448321 611994 :Fleet19!~Fleet@171.114.65.114 JOIN :#esoteric
> 1534448344 501618 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck implementations14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57345&oldid=57344 5* 03Asu` 5* (+5) 10/* Optimizing implementations */
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< 1534449792 773848 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86CACA.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages
< 1534449792 984944 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any messages
< 1534451032 630581 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: No route to host
< 1534452201 50677 :wob_jonas!b03f18e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.233 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1534453844 706752 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86CACA.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye
< 1534453846 150153 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86CACA.versanet.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving
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< 1534454841 69105 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1135
< 1534454842 50292 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1135: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
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< 1534457123 699736 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
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< 1534461885 962970 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1534462532 881317 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1534462537 395000 :qmr13!~qmr@36.239.44.54 QUIT :Killed (Unit193 (Spam is not permitted on freenode.))
< 1534462822 680004 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534463067 678814 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534463392 940870 :Peng6!~Peng@190-198-230-79.dyn.dsl.cantv.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534463465 954424 :Peng6!~Peng@190-198-230-79.dyn.dsl.cantv.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534464231 366944 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534464506 559708 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1534464633 448839 :stoner1911!~stoner19@121.174.167.135 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534464710 784181 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1534464747 203431 :stoner1911!~stoner19@121.174.167.135 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534464975 833637 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1534464998 62895 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, since I'm spewing the link everywhere else...
< 1534465007 355397 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I created this Discord server for speaking in/about Interlingua. https://discord.gg/bHk4V4N
< 1534466076 690808 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534466337 674430 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534466724 950858 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534467663 874447 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wsinomzaaswkhiru QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1534468130 58208 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1534468227 910682 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2
< 1534468389 797676 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534469317 483435 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534470179 588583 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1534470540 788655 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534470552 213215 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have added many new options into Megapane game
< 1534471990 316259 :brynjar9!~brynjar@111.176.222.226 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534472105 643942 :brynjar9!~brynjar@111.176.222.226 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534472518 678633 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534472695 816728 :Guest63686!~SiLuman@156.196.228.90 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534472804 636722 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1534473147 665161 :Guest63686!~SiLuman@156.196.228.90 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534474330 300598 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rscqsahabipbwhpl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534475699 772650 :agree!~agree@210.90.185.236 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534475774 910775 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534475795 84225 :agree!~agree@210.90.185.236 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534475984 778312 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1534476060 934668 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1534478038 424424 :crayfishx!~crayfishx@115.28.235.218 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534478259 754205 :crayfishx!~crayfishx@115.28.235.218 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534478984 626304 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534479231 521250 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1534479670 839003 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1534480849 215797 :Facilitating!~Facilitat@125.188.169.48 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534480886 853802 :Facilitating!~Facilitat@125.188.169.48 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534481009 588028 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534481279 548183 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :When will the next version of SQLite be released? I want the version with window functions (and some bug fixes, one of which I reported, and it has been fixed now but not released yet)
< 1534483760 110083 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jysdcwftlrpzrbjx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534483974 610041 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1534485415 638444 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534485688 635960 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1534486530 801818 :Brace24!~Brace@201.20.65.171 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534486982 633509 :Brace24!~Brace@201.20.65.171 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1534487749 664944 :CGML16!~CGML@41.45.203.224 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534488297 694183 :CGML16!~CGML@41.45.203.224 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534488809 860803 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534489051 952117 :RyanKnack9!~RyanKnack@1.11.111.68 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534489094 782227 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1534489301 200783 :RyanKnack9!~RyanKnack@1.11.111.68 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534489423 593659 :captain425!~captain42@node-ikr.pool-125-24.dynamic.totbb.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534489684 724150 :captain425!~captain42@node-ikr.pool-125-24.dynamic.totbb.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534489686 702692 :cheapie16!~cheapie@121.136.100.75 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534489834 749468 :cheapie16!~cheapie@121.136.100.75 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534491235 815560 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcb1dmnmcpyztw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534491348 398808 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534491494 774216 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcb1dmnmcpyztw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1534492205 392586 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534492486 879187 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534493164 912417 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534493274 923256 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1534494189 36681 :neo-cool0!~neo-cool@p448136-ipngn200308kamokounan.kagoshima.ocn.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534494200 141463 :some_weirdo29!~some_weir@181.60.244.150 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534494326 757957 :neo-cool0!~neo-cool@p448136-ipngn200308kamokounan.kagoshima.ocn.ne.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534494374 364022 :some_weirdo29!~some_weir@181.60.244.150 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534494457 621585 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534495517 980103 :usrX!~usrX@200.84.185.126 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534495586 84225 :usrX!~usrX@200.84.185.126 QUIT :Killed (Unit193 (Spam is not permitted on freenode.))
< 1534495620 452187 :israfel!~israfel@84.121.91.154.dyn.user.ono.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534495687 991685 :israfel!~israfel@84.121.91.154.dyn.user.ono.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534496737 25746 :Rune_K!~Rune_K@90.151.234.184 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534496795 672078 :Rune_K!~Rune_K@90.151.234.184 QUIT :Killed (Unit193 (Spam is not permitted on freenode.))
< 1534496953 492505 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534497542 55115 :__idiot__!~goirc@efs250.internetdsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534497661 71173 :__idiot__!~goirc@efs250.internetdsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1534497851 869986 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1534497898 70965 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534497933 267334 :ksx4system19!~ksx4syste@219.248.143.48 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534498134 619437 :ksx4system19!~ksx4syste@219.248.143.48 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534498514 398120 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later
< 1534499271 473189 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534499328 349214 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: be patient. window functions are a major new functionality, not trivial to implement correctly without compromising the usual reliability of sqlite, they need some time to iron out the bugs.
< 1534499475 662022 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534499767 342776 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534499817 711384 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534500949 602133 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534501245 447526 :Exagone31323!~Exagone31@188.38.62.129 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534501267 427106 :Exagone31323!~Exagone31@188.38.62.129 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534503173 909320 :verm1n26!~verm1n@2402:800:6127:34a:b11b:20f0:8f61:d615 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534503292 587224 :verm1n26!~verm1n@2402:800:6127:34a:b11b:20f0:8f61:d615 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1534506008 244467 :Guest30398!~celyr@221.160.253.42 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534506048 684407 :Guest30398!~celyr@221.160.253.42 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1534507672 994597 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/intelligence => "Original"? dude, that's basically the plot of the *Phineas and Ferb* special episode "Night of the Living Pharmacists" upside down. It's not original. Very few of SMBC is.
< 1534509714 426519 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rscqsahabipbwhpl QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1534511955 523766 :patate29!~patate@181.231.217.8 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534512381 865534 :patate29!~patate@181.231.217.8 QUIT :K-Lined
< 1534513630 401201 :Guest42469!~Guest4246@141.196.114.248 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534513716 755704 :Guest42469!~Guest4246@141.196.114.248 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1534514630 154581 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qqmozxvlwbwnymvu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534515273 524780 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: your comment reminded me one of details I loved in P&F: that evil scientists there are _always_ thought of as pharmacists by laymen :D
< 1534517437 804340 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: one of the many running gags, yes
< 1534517687 595277 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1534517759 28794 :Fieldy5!~Fieldy@nthkid126078.hkid.nt.ngn.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534517996 383705 :zeroed!~zeroed@220.93.18.136 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534518009 968824 :Fieldy5!~Fieldy@nthkid126078.hkid.nt.ngn.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534518136 649656 :zeroed!~zeroed@220.93.18.136 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534518607 808430 :agree19!~agree@110.78.171.65 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534518675 164826 :agree19!~agree@110.78.171.65 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1534518789 641733 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534519128 604143 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1534519345 544786 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534519717 92901 :benoliver99919!~benoliver@201.49.236.2 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534519738 619875 :benoliver99919!~benoliver@201.49.236.2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534520136 244949 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1534520615 130730 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534521924 151565 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534522006 807483 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534522182 617665 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The SD cards I ordered on ebay have arrived in the mail today from Hong Kong. Hopefully they're genuine Kingston, not fakes.
< 1534522246 37898 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the surprise is: the envelope has postage stamps. There's someone who still uses postage stamps today, and sells consumer electronics. At least the address is on adhesive paper printed with a laser printer, not typewritten.
< 1534522479 464676 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534522591 100925 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534522644 119706 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534522842 159932 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be able to test the write speed of course. If the write speed isn't what they promised, then it's a fake.
< 1534522914 530516 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jysdcwftlrpzrbjx QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1534523215 737553 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1534523517 418871 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A46C74.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534523607 449043 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534523766 438659 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86D02E.versanet.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534524351 750163 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534524555 666380 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534524924 325114 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534524930 791455 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I think you are correct about window functions, but I have not seen any recent coding about window functions (although at the time there was, there was many changes due to fixes due to bugs and that stuff)
< 1534525028 55819 :ollien13!~ollien@118.96.166.133 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534525060 202599 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86D02E.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages
< 1534525060 452548 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any messages
< 1534525077 217350 :ollien13!~ollien@118.96.166.133 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1534525189 302224 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534525232 8065 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you want window functions in UPDATE statements?
< 1534525432 389893 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: sorry for my connection
< 1534525445 616492 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534525463 635685 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534525471 678329 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534525496 808999 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, guess what
< 1534525506 956819 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ehlist http://eheroes.smackjeeves.com/comics/2657949/when-it-all-lands-right-in-your-lab/
< 1534525507 909480 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ehlist: not found
< 1534525526 235143 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyday Heroes continues, with a new artist
< 1534525935 361227 :th3bmw!~th3bmw@123.212.116.55 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534525993 928622 :th3bmw!~th3bmw@123.212.116.55 QUIT :Killed (Unit193 (Spam is not permitted on freenode.))
< 1534526321 872106 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know how to write in Latin?   http://zzo38computer.org/gurpsgame/1.ui/wiki?name=Session+9   If you know then the mention of the Latin inscriptions, we can mention in there, their writing in Latin as well as English; currently I only have English. (Near the beginning of that there is the mention of the Latin inscriptions in the box)
< 1534526368 263826 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no, I don't know how to write in latin
< 1534526829 575910 :SunTsu22!~SunTsu@toroon0952w-lp140-04-70-30-116-32.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534527096 38951 :SunTsu22!~SunTsu@toroon0952w-lp140-04-70-30-116-32.dsl.bell.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534527307 78343 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1534527388 360921 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I’ll ask my calligraphic friend
< 1534527454 659823 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534527852 412587 :anderson25!~anderson@4.red-83-49-60.dynamicip.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534527892 330993 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, hopefully they know
< 1534527896 634361 :anderson25!~anderson@4.red-83-49-60.dynamicip.rima-tde.net QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1534527988 854049 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: now just asked, let’s wait for an answer
< 1534528099 845917 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1534528166 917465 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1534528212 764501 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534528645 522834 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1534528790 235313 :blacksyke5!~blacksyke@p773216-ipbf206fukuhanazo.fukushima.ocn.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534528819 521353 :blacksyke5!~blacksyke@p773216-ipbf206fukuhanazo.fukushima.ocn.ne.jp QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1534529014 501966 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he somewhat struggles to translate “really” in these cases, maybe he’ll translate it later after consulting dictionaries, if it’s not urgent
< 1534529097 555174 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534529229 940393 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We just had a short (few minute long) power outage affecting more than this house. It was immediately obvious, because I heard a generator spin up, and I was in a mobile phone call (2G) and the call broke and then the cell tower coverage restarted 20 second later. The cell tower is on a taller house on the other side of the street.
< 1534529352 956611 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: It isn't urgent, so that is OK.
< 1534529501 827716 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1534529684 648810 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534529750 286582 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a second power outage, but only for like 30 seconds this time. Cueing house alarms immediately. I guess the electricity grid was switching back from some backup connection to the normal one.
< 1534529812 839005 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1534529847 876116 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534529879 859525 :Tux1!~Tux@177.124.184.46.ondaagil.net.br JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534529943 319128 :Tux1!~Tux@177.124.184.46.ondaagil.net.br QUIT :Killed (Unit193 (Spam is not permitted on freenode.))
< 1534530057 198777 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? infrastructure
< 1534530058 299458 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :infrastructure? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1534530082 17187 :Guest20720!~alefir@114.36.30.139 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534530105 69090 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( Infrastructure is what you don't notice or care about unless it's failing. )
< 1534530112 921429 :Guest20720!~alefir@114.36.30.139 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1534530146 691392 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86D02E.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1534530360 680093 :Nothing4You21!~Nothing4Y@p9012-ipngn8401marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534530382 121984 :Nothing4You21!~Nothing4Y@p9012-ipngn8401marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534530498 69525 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net QUIT :Quit: the creeping crawling chaos will return.
< 1534530932 701509 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534531317 164355 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm playing Running out. while I think an alien that doesn't speak in the standard galactic alphabet is unrealistic, obviously other parts of game design override that.
< 1534531370 839861 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speech in alphabets? I thought is the alphabet to use for writing.
< 1534531400 413310 :Kirito!~Kirito@156.194.213.15 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534531413 596043 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The game is very helpful with giving a lot of labels: even before I get past the first obstacle (which I could do even without reading anything) I could decode so many labels that I have the transcription of 22 out of 26 ASCII letters, and since most of them appear in multiple uses, I can even confirm which one is the typo you were talking about
< 1534531437 496937 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well, the game shows the alien's speech as writing in the user interface
< 1534531459 636873 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or telepathic communications, if he's doing that. I don't know which.
< 1534531469 720521 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it can, OK
< 1534531488 976963 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still maybe some telepathic communications are difficult to understand
< 1534531572 469462 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit
< 1534531575 321317 :Kirito!~Kirito@156.194.213.15 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534531793 189102 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86D02E.versanet.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1534532000 841746 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :23 out of 26, I forgot one
< 1534532008 409020 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait
< 1534532011 425999 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still 22 out of 26
< 1534532013 508138 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't count
< 1534532022 342347 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, most letters except for the rare ones
< 1534532332 331849 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah you can dig into the resources for the remaining 4-5 letters.
< 1534532406 593963 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't need them until they appear in some label, and they'll probably be unambiguous the first time I meet them
< 1534532439 800683 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: you won't encounter them :P
< 1534532459 167532 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I won't need them
< 1534532555 95990 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! the inventory typo makes even more sense now
< 1534532586 825509 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe there are two typos
< 1534532591 499288 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1534532626 410370 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I don't like is how quickly some text replies disappear
< 1534532630 587019 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :error messages typically
< 1534532635 133804 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :two wrongs^W^W two typos in the same place don’t make an untypo
< 1534532719 656435 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I made screenshots and then copied new letters in The Gimp :P
< 1534532758 362935 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: sure
< 1534532762 980508 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm making screenshots too
< 1534532765 167187 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, it's annoying
< 1534532773 492158 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes, I agree, they are too fast
< 1534532773 888672 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sometimes error messages appear partly outside the screen
< 1534532779 964720 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a little bit, but still
< 1534532783 446777 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they shouldn't do that
< 1534532804 915127 :Warped26!~Warped@177.53.136.100 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534533100 361347 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one En-Ru dictionary tells me that “typo” is a typographical jargon for “typographer” first. Is it outdated or is it really in use by some outdated^W typographers? I mostly use En-En dictionaries these times, but sometimes I want to translate a word or other, and this dictionary then often confuses me by its strange articles or by lacking a translation for a vital, common phrase (mostly going Ru→En for this one)
< 1534533184 201369 :Warped26!~Warped@177.53.136.100 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534533193 269594 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone is a typographer these days
< 1534533237 490087 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(more seriously I thought it stood for "typographical error" and has found a new life simply meaning "spelling error" perhaps even "typing error")
< 1534533259 681247 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any case typos certainly aren't what they used to be.
< 1534533431 964357 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm at the first hard puzzle part after the introduction
< 1534533501 804105 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree nowadays “typo” is not anything typographical but is specifically a typographical error, and by transfer, a spelling or typing mistake, but so blarantly write it means “typographer” nowadays without even tagging it properly…
< 1534533554 974072 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :blatantly*
< 1534533676 530781 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just can’t believe were they (that dictionary’s compilers) that inconsiderate?
< 1534533721 833679 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they totally could have been, though
< 1534533745 790388 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many entries are there, when was the entry added, and when was it last revised? (the latter information would be a useful addition to dictionaries (am I sounding like zzo38?)))
< 1534533823 495699 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: if it doesn't tell when it was last revised, then either it's an old dictionary or a cheap bad one.
< 1534533837 946836 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I meant on each individual entry
< 1534533958 915058 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that would only make sense in a digital dictionary online that is refreshed continuously
< 1534533963 759964 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, perhaps this would be meaningful information: how big is the market for en-ru dictionaries? This correlates with how much effort publishers can put into creating, verifying, and updating those entries.
< 1534533976 938294 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm trying random commands by the way, in case one of them works
< 1534534017 156442 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! found it
< 1534534027 411703 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fresh meat?
< 1534534039 562430 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1534534254 146372 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, my first guess from the game title and the Diablo inventory window was right
< 1534534306 168487 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn I missed that
< 1534534332 997170 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: have you played the wire game, also by tom7? wire connector
< 1534534344 834947 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had a softlock bug, which tom7 knew about but didn't have time to fix
< 1534534346 533172 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1534534356 346379 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my guess was that he turned that bug into a game feature now
< 1534534409 732423 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kirk is still smiling, of course
< 1534534416 2081 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, he subverted it
< 1534534467 774968 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that would only make sense in a digital dictionary online that is refreshed continuously => yeah, it’s a digital one but not a web one, it was originally shipped on CDs with its shell app
< 1534534516 734000 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: is it updated in any way after the CDs?
< 1534534522 990423 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, can you tell what dictionary it is?
< 1534534549 618545 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's based on a paper dict, it's possible that for most entries they simply don't have the info of when it was last modified recorded
< 1534534550 681068 :lucy_!~lucy_@e147119.upc-e.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534534568 867570 :GTAXL1!~GTAXL@190-72-92-76.dyn.dsl.cantv.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534534623 97423 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the developer came to be famous for OCR software, but they also worked with various digital+linguistic stuff, so some dictionaries for various language pairs, mostly Ru↔other
< 1534534729 489532 :GTAXL1!~GTAXL@190-72-92-76.dyn.dsl.cantv.net QUIT :Killed (Unit193 (Spam is not permitted on freenode.))
< 1534534743 415925 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sometimes messages are buffered so you have to wait until the old irrelevant ones scroll past before you see the newest message
< 1534534795 443417 :lucy_!~lucy_@e147119.upc-e.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534534811 478329 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534534827 748993 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm at the second or third puzzle and the obvious things I tried don't work
< 1534534831 772161 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try other stuff
< 1534534894 856325 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, found the next thing
< 1534534912 663610 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86D194.versanet.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534534936 407316 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2008, 100k articles, 37 references to dictionaries, British National Corpus and a specialized forum, hm
< 1534534978 173376 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: is this a ru<->en dictionary?
< 1534534984 621506 :Texou5!~Texou@187.10.104.12 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534535009 405229 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I found a small text bug
< 1534535027 344775 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not typo, just message showing in inappropriate case
< 1534535030 943378 :Texou5!~Texou@187.10.104.12 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534535075 683483 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Kirk
< 1534535076 391834 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I think there are newer versions of it, but I think these “archaic mentions” here and there are there almost from the start, so maybe they remain further, too (let me search something…)
< 1534535090 870307 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I think they’ve taken too much
< 1534535123 32293 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's based on a paper dict, it's possible that for most entries they simply don't have the info of when it was last modified recorded => yeah there are references to many paper dictionaries
> 1534535125 977375 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Your Minsky May Vary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57346&oldid=46037 5* 03Zseri 5* (+5) 10
< 1534535192 449811 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes! Space!
< 1534535282 78438 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a blatant physics violation
< 1534535438 870731 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now I'm solving the inventory puzzle
< 1534535445 78864 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, trying to solve
< 1534535545 682967 :tomek8!~tomek@ppp-124-120-34-243.revip2.asianet.co.th JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534535572 879153 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do I have to restart from a soft-lock? but even then I don't quite see
< 1534535575 827588 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1534535644 125394 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get it
< 1534535652 398849 :tomek8!~tomek@ppp-124-120-34-243.revip2.asianet.co.th QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534535762 533996 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, got it
< 1534535772 356740 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, now this will get ugly
< 1534535784 957407 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but totally characteristic of tom7
< 1534535854 371136 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible in DOSBOX to set the date/time only for one DOS session?
< 1534535984 624318 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the end. I don't know if there's a true ending I missed.
< 1534535996 1488 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it faded to dark and took me back to title screen
< 1534536024 822931 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: is this a ru<->en dictionary? => yeah, to and from
< 1534536045 97949 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: is it a good one? or are you still trying to decide that?
< 1534536100 165586 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: congrats, and thanks for getting rid of those pesky aliens :)
< 1534536136 867839 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kirk says "Please make yourself". I don't know if I've made myself.
< 1534536226 853041 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86D194.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to fetch the dump from esolangs.org via zsync, which fails. But it succeeds if I manually download the zsync file to use http instead of https. Maybe http should be the default when the zsync file is fetched via http; and via https if the zsync file was fetched via https?
< 1534536229 892162 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I use it rarely these times. A while ago, I used an earlier version of it more often and I haven’t mistranslate anything AFAIR
< 1534536260 226359 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly it sucks when I search for an interjection or a common phrase, to find it missing
< 1534536260 460625 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: it's "Please make yourself at home!"
< 1534536289 752351 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is a strange phrase)
< 1534536289 895884 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it’s simply because it’s not that big
< 1534536293 942190 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was "Please make yourself comfortable"
< 1534536309 174900 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :my answer to that is usually "aw, but home's an hour away and i just got here!"
< 1534536313 607074 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there's a true ending, then either it's connected to Kirk, or to that one item I couldn't find out what to use for
< 1534536355 909134 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what game is this
< 1534536382 771466 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: tom7's new game, http://runningoutof.spacebar.org/
< 1534536390 35960 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: there's no other ending.
< 1534536391 560565 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an esoteric one certainly
< 1534536395 867743 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf gave some spoilers
< 1534536402 108742 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: have you read all the code?
< 1534536411 209038 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I found this one perfectly satisfactory.
< 1534536431 710504 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? the one I got just faded black and went back to the opening title screen
< 1534536432 458662 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Oh, huh, you never did use that one item, did you
< 1534536444 312480 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opening title screen? It didn't go to a music-playing screen?
< 1534536461 128553 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :music-playing, but the opening title is also a music-playing
< 1534536474 903984 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no waity
< 1534536475 53014 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I got a black screen, rather than the opening screen
< 1534536480 73555 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not the same screen
< 1534536483 993090 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I know the game ends when you bibcbfvg gur pncgnva'f obql
< 1534536484 477927 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a different ending screen
< 1534536490 433409 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :black and with "um, credits"
< 1534536515 74559 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1534536519 564903 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :black and with um, "credits"
< 1534536557 75828 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if someone's already submitted a real-time speedrun somewhere
< 1534536575 229274 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a let's-play
< 1534536638 672700 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :TASR
< 1534536747 218679 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, typo; the third letter of the third command is wrong... or perhaps it's just alien terminology.
< 1534536753 277365 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86D194.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: zsync dump sync fails often if https is used in Z-URL in the .zsync file, but it doesn't, if http is used (my local installed zsync doesn't seem to work well with https); is it possible to let the zsync file use https in Z-URL if ..xml.zsync if downloaded via https; and http otherwise?
< 1534536766 870454 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: no, that's what I thought at first, but no:
< 1534536775 500937 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what
< 1534536778 239769 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :third letter?
< 1534536780 42494 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1534536781 954170 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that too then
< 1534536796 79034 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might be alien terminology, yes
< 1534536816 480252 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't forget that tom7 invents words like "unibycle" and "anaglyph"
< 1534536827 597972 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's the last letter of the second command that's wrong
< 1534536829 395626 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"alient terminology" is certainly the excuse I would use if I were tom7 :)
< 1534536844 131515 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/alient/alien/
< 1534536852 302889 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: The third command is the one I wrote above in rot13?
< 1534536852 700805 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is at least consistently used that way in messages
< 1534536863 432053 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see.
< 1534536882 936219 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not only typoed in the command, also in messages
< 1534536884 457834 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes
< 1534536908 465553 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: and the file names for the animation
< 1534537043 954471 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe, kirk has directional hearing. if you stand in front of him, he doesn't reply.
< 1534537262 181256 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh cool. tom7 is a cool guy. i'll check it out later.
< 1534537312 771847 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: this is a game he made for a game creation marathon, where he composes original graphics, music, gameplay and game implementation to a short deadline
< 1534537316 699649 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :called ludum dare
< 1534537328 519471 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he has made several such games in the past, linked from his internet
< 1534537569 538381 :fsamareanu29!~fsamarean@CPEbc4dfbc67bb3-CMbc4dfbc67bb0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534537576 928736 :fsamareanu29!~fsamarean@CPEbc4dfbc67bb3-CMbc4dfbc67bb0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1534537577 773580 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
> 1534537598 903290 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang talk:Wiki dumps14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57347&oldid=30649 5* 03Zseri 5* (+552) 10/* Troubleshooting */ new section
< 1534537812 712922 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1534538557 517673 :sielicki!~sielicki@191.206.73.155 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534538861 312337 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is Tom7's "Escape" game, possibly after Free Hero Mesh is made, it can be ported to Free Hero Mesh.
< 1534538907 724152 :sielicki!~sielicki@191.206.73.155 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534538956 79706 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: connector world is so brutal
< 1534539022 936333 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: not compared to this
< 1534539029 969712 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this new game that is
< 1534539572 991652 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like there will likely be no rain or wind on Saturday or Sunday. I might risk not taking a jacket.
< 1534539588 15323 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll decide it tomorrow morning.
< 1534539676 851880 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to leave. Goodbye, everyone.
< 1534539679 417162 :wob_jonas!b03f184f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.79 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1534539742 213931 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got a message from valgrind that says "Warning: set address range perms: large range [0x395a5040, 0x74f51a40) (undefined)" do you know what this message is?
< 1534539759 941616 :TheSilentLink18!~TheSilent@220.77.218.176 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534539771 821128 :TheSilentLink18!~TheSilent@220.77.218.176 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1534539893 645516 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I think I figured out why; the difference of those two numbers is the same as the SQLite maximum length of a SQL statement, and I had a allocation of that size even though it should be smaller, but I fixed it now
< 1534540007 699900 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: reboot
< 1534540278 716844 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534541338 192563 :Numline13!~Numline1@p548A43A3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534541624 903495 :Numline13!~Numline1@p548A43A3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534542122 517017 :EdSaperia24!~EdSaperia@host-78-145-224-133.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534542336 539884 :TheoM!~TheoM@host-78-145-224-133.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534542400 655447 :EdSaperia24!~EdSaperia@host-78-145-224-133.as13285.net QUIT :Killed (Unit193 (Spam is not permitted on freenode.))
< 1534542401 809704 :TheoM!~TheoM@host-78-145-224-133.as13285.net QUIT :K-Lined
< 1534542563 730703 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Despite that I still do not know why it says "(undefined)" afterward and those stuff, although I found out the mistake in my program that caused that message
< 1534543911 539190 :Miklo4!~Miklo@156.223.174.226 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534544157 670028 :Miklo4!~Miklo@156.223.174.226 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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< 1534544458 559437 :loppy2!~loppy2@82.222.198.20 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534544622 611968 :loppy2!~loppy2@82.222.198.20 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534544679 384984 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know if DOSBOX can emulate PC joysticks?
< 1534545327 351625 :kspencer6!~kspencer@190-207-62-251.dyn.dsl.cantv.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534545336 797694 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
< 1534545643 607580 :kspencer6!~kspencer@190-207-62-251.dyn.dsl.cantv.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
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> 1534549120 724695 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Qwertyu6314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57348&oldid=55332 5* 03Qwertyu63 5* (-1853) 10
< 1534549178 171076 :MJ9413!~MJ94@115.52.40.131 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
> 1534549945 685927 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:YamTokWae/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57349&oldid=56030 5* 03YamTokWae 5* (+75) 10/* Commands */
> 1534550697 819054 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:YamTokWae/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57350&oldid=57349 5* 03YamTokWae 5* (+748) 10/* Commands */
> 1534551180 347411 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:YamTokWae/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57351&oldid=57350 5* 03YamTokWae 5* (+4) 10
< 1534551523 584840 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1534551743 921221 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1534551860 28299 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1534552320 285209 :Xenthys28!~Xenthys@186-88-93-210.genericrev.cantv.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1534554872 994783 :nodist!~nodist@pool-108-41-59-111.nycmny.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534557367 16503 :Compu!~Compu@ntfkok099250.fkok.nt.ngn.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1534558202 582208 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534558205 447456 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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< 1534558776 976306 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534559529 829504 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if there are similar ideas from other philosophers like my ideas of dual free will and transcendental deterministic free will.
< 1534559619 153093 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that idea?
< 1534559621 975503 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never heard that
< 1534559750 892192 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :My ideas are: Dual free will assumes a nondeterministic universe, and there are two kind of free will, being classical free will and quantum free will; quantum free will is more free but is also less effective than classical free will. Transcendental deterministic free will means a deterministic universe that uses transcendental numbers in the initial state in order to make a kind of free will.
< 1534559787 429130 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This argument does not prove the existence of free will, but it allows it to be possible.)
< 1534560725 3865 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@kite.riseup.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
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< 1534561639 807196 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534563181 430089 :nodist!~nodist@pool-108-41-59-111.nycmny.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1534563577 867923 :Guest56478!~barjac_@111.176.248.37 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1534563797 346189 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't see how the Greeks thought it was a good idea to have free will be in opposition to determinism, what with determinism meaning your actions are determined by your own traits?
< 1534563832 221216 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, halp I seem to be mentally designing yet another Tcl OO system
< 1534563852 653334 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you design my language instead
< 1534563853 795689 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :twh
< 1534563857 699476 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :{*}$foo somemethod to call a non-mutating method, mut foo somemethod to call a mutating method
< 1534563874 923623 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mutation requires a variable name just like incr does
< 1534563961 813212 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that what determinism means? Wikipedia says: "Determinism is the philosophical theory that all events, including moral choices, are completely determined by previously existing causes. Determinism is usually understood to preclude free will because it entails that humans cannot act otherwise than they do. The theory holds that the universe is utterly rational [...]"
< 1534564009 684352 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, there is also a list of the varieties
< 1534564100 13017 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course then you have to define free will too, I suppose.)
< 1534564512 340884 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Friends don't let friends do yet another Tcl object system.
< 1534564561 496997 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the one I'm imagining sort of takes inspiration from both that transparent one + a bit of Rust (distinction between mutation and not)
< 1534564641 416239 :Brace15!~Brace@156.199.15.147 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1534564737 114313 :yar29!~yar@42.115.5.30 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534564795 72378 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, is there a way to pass a variable name to a proc without forcing the proc to use upvar?
< 1534564795 377510 :yar29!~yar@42.115.5.30 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1534564807 227936 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, "previously existing causes" could be taken to invlude personal traits.
< 1534564839 644771 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is part of it. But even in case of nondeterminism, there is partial determinism.
< 1534564881 222637 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Don't think so honestly
< 1534564910 551836 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose I could make my own proc-like that does it automatically, for convenience sake
< 1534565090 969248 :kamkran22!~kamkran@156.221.39.60 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1534565152 624182 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534565488 514266 :nodist!~nodist@pool-108-41-59-111.nycmny.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534565630 957634 :nodist!~nodist@pool-108-41-59-111.nycmny.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Client Quit
< 1534566206 518040 :WhitePhosphorus2!~WhitePhos@141.196.174.72 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534566267 291466 :WhitePhosphorus2!~WhitePhos@141.196.174.72 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1534566536 110107 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although Tcl has too many ways to represent anonymous functions, command prefixes remind me of currying which is nice
< 1534567695 642351 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534568160 598026 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534568428 597591 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1534568787 719089 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534570149 939757 :EdSaperia3!~EdSaperia@125.131.226.224 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534570188 623802 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qqmozxvlwbwnymvu QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1534570268 541300 :EdSaperia3!~EdSaperia@125.131.226.224 QUIT :Killed (Unit193 (Spam is not permitted on freenode.))
< 1534571368 657533 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1534572362 630756 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534572667 750683 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1534573143 577097 :tktech21!~tktech@41.239.155.36 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534573155 225223 :tktech21!~tktech@41.239.155.36 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1534573181 499809 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Free Hero Mesh file format, although it splits the puzzle set into four files rather than only one, the class definitions are stored in text format rather than binary, and the additional headers needed for each level and picture as well as the extra copy of the class and user message list required in the level file, it is still less than a third of the original file size.
< 1534573349 463620 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have now documented the format of the .xclass .level .solution files, although the .class file still is not yet documented.
< 1534573918 710825 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534574192 685751 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1534575876 762718 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534576081 597858 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rqkojsxskryguheu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534576874 841245 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1534578498 713720 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a46c74.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534578645 761898 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534578862 667398 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1534580439 670642 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zmutvslqaicjdney JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534581035 552031 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1534581447 665878 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a46c74.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534583170 145234 :Shinobi!~Shinobi@175.213.93.176 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534583186 960715 :Shinobi!~Shinobi@175.213.93.176 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534583343 968087 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534584036 797750 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a46c74.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534584186 587642 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534585135 525485 :cwre!~cwre@41.43.155.6 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534585356 581217 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1534585654 531204 :cwre!~cwre@41.43.155.6 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1534585682 213837 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534585904 439546 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c193-150-230-246.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534585904 702060 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c193-150-230-246.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Changing host
< 1534585904 702112 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534586105 823184 :because!~because@197.33.64.188 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534586213 720006 :L23516!~L235@121.131.236.52 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534586421 125218 :L23516!~L235@121.131.236.52 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534586431 640573 :because!~because@197.33.64.188 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1534586754 929470 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1534586991 56754 :kiera8!~kiera@211.221.86.42 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534587072 693629 :kiera8!~kiera@211.221.86.42 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534587149 704723 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534588199 686848 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534588379 794183 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534588467 667780 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534588764 691785 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534588778 673899 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86C5D4.versanet.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534588844 677149 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534589163 80103 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rqkojsxskryguheu QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1534589261 908113 :Liara-!~Liara-@KD175132072197.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1534589469 787522 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c193-150-230-246.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534589470 206210 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c193-150-230-246.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Changing host
< 1534589470 206247 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534589859 46681 :crayfishx!~crayfishx@host23.190-226-20.telecom.net.ar JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534590095 36072 :AlexZ12!~AlexZ@41.43.29.212 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1534590365 482487 :crayfishx!~crayfishx@host23.190-226-20.telecom.net.ar QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534591137 587719 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534591247 301392 :stoner1922!~stoner19@116.102.235.5 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1534591860 393626 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1534592636 630374 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534592936 847772 :totallymoony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf NICK :moony
< 1534595192 316201 :NvpkD1y7Ez!~NvpkD1y7E@156.205.129.49 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1534595638 986737 :wgma!~wgma@2.187.127.234 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1534595705 429562 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534596782 85057 :Minkar!~Minkar@180.69.224.144 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1534597300 631704 :zseri_!~zseri@i5E86D572.versanet.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534597371 633632 :zseri__!~zseri@i5E86CA40.versanet.de JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1534597554 668383 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86D5AF.versanet.de JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1534597978 674910 :By!~By@cpe-24-162-112-115.hot.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534597991 808675 :By!~By@cpe-24-162-112-115.hot.res.rr.com QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1534598150 319749 :vespaper!~vespaper@156.202.66.159 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534598355 617886 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534598387 27041 :vespaper!~vespaper@156.202.66.159 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1534598876 541100 :Corvus`0!~Corvus`@host2-189-static.59-217-b.business.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1534601016 522556 :sh4nks24!~sh4nks@ppp-124-121-140-50.revip2.asianet.co.th JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1534601534 438769 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534602428 898831 :Omnious!~Omnious@115.86.175.74 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534602541 957621 :Omnious!~Omnious@115.86.175.74 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534603038 955421 :nesthib!~nesthib@27.78.245.234 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534603224 144971 :nesthib!~nesthib@27.78.245.234 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534603425 748868 :apollo1324!~apollo13@61.74.21.7 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534603543 639780 :apollo1324!~apollo13@61.74.21.7 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1534604264 750433 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534604555 296083 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86D5AF.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/rust-lang-nursery/error-chain/pull/252
< 1534604684 683259 :Guest3871!~Guest3871@opt-115-30-248-86.client.pikara.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534604958 42661 :Guest3871!~Guest3871@opt-115-30-248-86.client.pikara.ne.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534605982 803052 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
> 1534606980 892746 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Unfedern14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57352&oldid=57323 5* 03Zseri 5* (+23) 102018
< 1534607865 269855 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534608082 232636 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1534610866 175980 :RussellB2819!~RussellB2@39.119.228.179 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534610993 27853 :LEI3!~LEI@13.149.12.93.rev.sfr.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534611049 113134 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu
< 1534611143 754496 :RussellB2819!~RussellB2@39.119.228.179 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534611148 533689 :LEI3!~LEI@13.149.12.93.rev.sfr.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1534613042 276028 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534613109 815541 :meffe!~meffe@183.157.189.35 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534613133 802207 :meffe!~meffe@183.157.189.35 NICK :Guest45640
< 1534613162 141517 :Guest45640!~meffe@183.157.189.35 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1534613289 844727 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534613803 610127 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders whether tromp has been up to anything interesting (for this channel) recently.

< 1534614067 299280 :gsdg!~gsdg@dynamic-186-29-173-156.dynamic.etb.net.co JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534614246 462424 :gsdg!~gsdg@dynamic-186-29-173-156.dynamic.etb.net.co QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534614368 647751 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a new BLC paper
< 1534614376 980883 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://tromp.github.io/cl/LC.pdf
< 1534614410 170658 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534614795 516274 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, nice, though technically there's nothing really new in there...
< 1534614851 846397 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaeh
< 1534615132 361874 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534615188 395132 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534615336 666995 :felt!~ep100@41.114.147.198 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534615737 664557 :felt!~ep100@41.114.147.198 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534615840 435832 :nodist!~nodist@pool-108-41-59-111.nycmny.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534616045 441320 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534616181 344621 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: also I'm wondering whether there's anything new in that paper since 2014 :)
< 1534616442 880262 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And at a glance (scrolling through two PDFs) the answer is "no".
< 1534616669 660499 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534616743 680088 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534616775 827882 :nodist!~nodist@pool-108-41-59-111.nycmny.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1534616842 804857 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: they finally settled on “rēvērā id nōn vīs” and “jam tibi dīxī tē id nōlle” resp.; wait a second and I tell you in how many ways it could be written
< 1534616954 848995 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534617027 668747 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534617048 746552 :felt!~ep100@41.114.147.198 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534617086 606002 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :macrons (ā) here aren’t a classical diacritic to indicate vowel length, so you would possibly want one of the following things:
< 1534617229 915985 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534617257 332387 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a) to omit it altogether, (b) to replace it with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apex_(diacritic) (in that article, it’s also said that Í is written as a so-called long I, but you could write an apex anyway, as I am unsure if this form of I is in Unicode)
< 1534617405 27445 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, with apices you could use a small caps lettering and J → I, U → V. If you don’t want to mark vowel lengths, it’s probably better to leave all as it is, only to capitalize first letters of phrases if you wish
< 1534617492 653736 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in these cases it should look AFAIR more like a classical inscription (apices, small caps, no JU) or a medieval/renaissance one (no apices)
< 1534617777 673331 :felt!~ep100@41.114.147.198 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534617800 920110 :subleq_!~gavin@207.173.246.52 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1534617816 812415 :subleq!~gavin@207.173.246.52 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534618010 759912 :felt!~ep100@105.225.84.131 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534618162 291195 :maxalt11!~maxalt@193.164.95.16 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534618269 974073 :felt!~ep100@105.225.84.131 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534618412 226645 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, but what are the meaning of those? I don't know Latin so well. Then I can add them into the proper places
< 1534618653 609208 :maxalt11!~maxalt@193.164.95.16 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1534618670 661688 :Matthew_19!~Matthew_@156.219.28.123 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534618681 718770 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you to figure it out though
< 1534619048 89827 :change!~change@223.199.168.167 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534619060 825326 :Matthew_19!~Matthew_@156.219.28.123 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
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< 1534619537 562201 :change!~change@223.199.168.167 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
> 1534619715 914572 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Unassignable-ABCDXYZ equivalency proof14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57353&oldid=11581 5* 03Zseri 5* (+375) 10
< 1534619858 122499 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534619960 496562 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534620034 288514 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the first for the first in the text and the second for the second
< 1534620061 827944 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :first on the outside of the box and second inside
< 1534620088 640769 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’ll relay your thanks :)
< 1534620330 624511 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1534620790 348788 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1534621211 675063 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534621894 716791 :jcline12!~jcline@197.35.127.124 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534621896 560477 :nodist!~nodist@pool-108-41-59-111.nycmny.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534621999 472497 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534622018 970389 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sort of thought latin used fewer pronouns than that

< 1534622028 233171 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pro-drop and all
< 1534622078 381790 :jcline12!~jcline@197.35.127.124 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534622120 760585 :felt!~ep100@105.225.84.131 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534622339 349117 :felt!~ep100@105.225.84.131 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534622357 324870 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if it is or not, using fewer pronouns than that.
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< 1534622490 309448 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's rare to use pronouns in Latin except for emphasis, as verbs have "implied" pronouns along with them
< 1534622495 84468 :nodist!~nodist@pool-108-41-59-111.nycmny.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1534622497 980807 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which they default to if no subject is reasonable
< 1534622504 576585 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can use pronouns for the object reasonably enough
< 1534622511 70120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*if no subject is given
< 1534622739 507755 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the case in the Latin inscriptions mentioned in my story?
< 1534622790 20190 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose the only actual finite verb there is dixi, whose pronoun _is_ missing.
< 1534622799 105375 :mlhess!~mlhess@pool-173-62-195-100.phlapa.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1534622888 467197 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first sentence seems to have dropped the verb for to be instead of the pronoun (which may also be common)
< 1534622928 399448 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well i'm no expert.
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< 1534623823 476767 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there variant of OpenID which can be used without a HTML document or stuff like that, making it independent of the user interface? (How exactly you then identify will depend on the server working. Of course there can still be protocols, e.g. HTTP(S) or FTP or Gopher can be used to automatically download an information file.)
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< 1534632999 945967 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/954088127500733730/34060460FB95C746608C9E2C3930A1CAA668E9D7/
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< 1534640808 547080 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that the Dawkins scale is fail to consider the difference kind of ideas how is meant by "God" (and what is meant "exists" in this context, too) (including, that you can't know what it means).
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< 1534642290 547449 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
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< 1534642377 524993 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think general public definitely in average doesn’t know what it means by “exists”, and I see only two ways to define this word more or less unambiguously and usefully, both of which define existing relatively:
< 1534642491 804660 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534642591 747391 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one is for “A exists in mathematical/physical theory B” (any modern physical theory contains some mathematical theory and “bindings” of it with experimentally checkable)
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< 1534643247 902459 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not a physical one — any scientific theory admitting a precise definition (i. e. a mathematical one) somewhere inside in its workings;
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< 1534643676 924475 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :another IIRC is for “(A exists in sc. theory B) upto accuracy C”, in this case it’s not atomic (and thus I think I have thought of something else originally) as it boils down to the first and “sc. theory is valid upto accuracy C”
< 1534643877 50640 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we can say “electrons exist”, and behind the scenes it means we pick any theory which defines them (classical electrodynamics, quantum electrodynamics etc.) and mean such an accuracy level that that theory holds — in everyday life it’s usually a very low level (and a pure mathematical theory always holds if we’re all think it’s sound)
< 1534643910 849119 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or we can say “2 exists”, and it admits even more contexts where it’s true
< 1534643999 181454 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there could be contexts where it’s meaningless or indeterminate or false (e. g. if we define 2 ≡ 1 + 1, and the theory knows about 1 and +, then 2 exists; if we also want 2 > 1, then in some cases 2 doesn’t exist)
< 1534644048 129083 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :these definitions are very useful IMO and they capture that we usually speak inside a vast context
< 1534644131 943123 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I’m still unsure abouth the second. When I find my notes, I’ll write if it’s laid out right
< 1534644190 649640 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, as about e. g. Dawkins, there are also useful existential _presumptions_
< 1534644475 543840 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they could be thought of as a propositions (maybe axioms) of some very general theories which is hard to place exactly in what domain of knowledge they are, but philosophers these days say they have figured this out. This metatheoretical stuff is a dim part and it’s not that essential to workings of science or everyday scientific worldview
< 1534644626 727204 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it’s not IMO that interesting as an existence. Also several formalizations of logic treat existence differently in details, so that underlying logic must be included in a mentioned theory, if one to be boring enough
< 1534644807 643220 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also these are cases when “is valid” for a theories is not enough, then there comes “is useful (to a consensus, or to someone like me)”
< 1534644812 874600 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :subtlety
< 1534644959 589392 :insidious23!~insidious@177-104-242-048.provecom.com.br JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534645095 737978 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops I’ve completely missed. I was defining what is truth, not existence. It’s more general
< 1534645309 80631 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we have a mathematical truth (depending on a logic and a theory in it) or an experimental truth (depending on a precision). “Electron exists” will be the first, many experiments on this or that electrodynamics would give us tons of the second ones. Then we could combine truths of both kinds and say electrons exist with this accuracy
< 1534645396 896313 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it’s a first approximation, but it’s about right for everything ontological an average man like me will need
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< 1534645586 39085 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an important corollary to this definition of truth is that absolute truth is a non-entity. Any truth is relative, but of course not in a sense it is usually used by politicians or journalists
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< 1534645972 515657 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ^ if you want
< 1534646023 915029 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked at this
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< 1534646129 85845 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1534646254 989106 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye, going to sleep finally
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> 1534647950 888719 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57354&oldid=57343 5* 03Stasoid 5* (+155) 10/* Introductions */
> 1534647991 745531 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Axo14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57355&oldid=8279 5* 03Stasoid 5* (+141) 10/* Exit command in string mode */ new section
> 1534648148 328720 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Axo14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57356&oldid=57355 5* 03Stasoid 5* (+121) 10/* Name capitalization */ new section
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> 1534654623 387764 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03SelfMod 5*  10New user account
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> 1534654925 682753 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57357&oldid=57354 5* 03SelfMod 5* (+173) 10/* Introductions */ hi
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> 1534674419 650909 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Puzzlang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57358&oldid=40488 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+4) 10/* Computational Class */ Link TC
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< 1534706894 524469 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534706964 55056 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many C programs are designed to return a null pointer in case of error and something else if it is OK, but how common is it to return a null pointer if it is OK and not null if it is an error? Sometimes I have done that in some cases.
< 1534707045 233045 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go functions often do that with the second return value.
< 1534707078 346959 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :x, err := f(); if err != nil { ... }
< 1534707106 168583 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a pointer, but some glibc functions have an annoying idiom with errno that works similarly.
< 1534707125 273782 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(errno = 0; x = f(); if (errno != 0) { ... })
< 1534707143 788359 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1534707340 205269 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some functions in Free Hero Mesh return null if OK or a constant error message if it is an error (although some errors are fatal and will cause the program to terminate instead).
< 1534707447 663538 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534707528 201332 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: you have some questions for you on Talk:Axo
< 1534707565 626847 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cannot recall em talking in years...

< 1534707648 891359 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know of any program language other than C and LLVM which has setjmp/longjmp, even though sometimes it can be good. Also many APIs of many programs can't be longjmp through since it might do something that it doesn't expect
< 1534707822 657770 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534707850 530747 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hasn't edited the wiki since 2006, yet is still here in the channel :P
< 1534707867 667572 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i can answer one of the questions.
< 1534708082 706495 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1534708159 107703 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Axo14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57359&oldid=42647 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+14) 10Standardize capitalization to the (mostly) original
< 1534709190 649145 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i think the other question was due to an edit error
< 1534709655 556164 :DenSchub7!~DenSchub@117.212.89.240 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1534710009 930837 :Janusz7!~Janusz@190.18.166.212 JOIN :#esoteric
> 1534710065 145060 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Axo14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57360&oldid=57359 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+35) 10grm, fix ancient rewriting error
< 1534710132 868894 :Janusz7!~Janusz@190.18.166.212 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1534710149 477964 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does SQLite have a sqlite3_result_blob64() function but no corresponding sqlite3_value_bytes64() function (at least according to the documentation)?
< 1534710159 17616 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: never mind, i found the answers
< 1534710178 573018 :Lumpi6!~Lumpi@69-196-190-215.dsl.teksavvy.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
> 1534710363 830719 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Axo14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57361&oldid=57356 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+554) 10Fixed errors
< 1534710440 316801 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably the reason is due to the limit which is limited to 32-bits (having interfaces with 64-bit numbers can be useful in case you do not want to implement that by yourself), but it should probably be mentioned in the documentation of sqlite3_result_blob64() and so on that it is limited otherwise you might think the limit is longer if you do not check elsewhere.
< 1534710477 389365 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534710565 659650 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Since it is already limited to one billion anyways.)
> 1534710583 711030 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07List of ideas14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57362&oldid=57080 5* 03GDavid 5* (+569) 10/* Mathematics */
< 1534710755 395576 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534710763 213903 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If a sqlite3_limit64() function is ever added, then a sqlite3_value_bytes64() function may be necessary.)
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< 1534711683 990972 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 null pointer dereferences.
< 1534711769 472818 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Null pointer dereferences?
< 1534711863 239664 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or near enough: SEGV on unknown address 0x000000000008
< 1534711934 746039 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What program is that?
< 1534712114 131147 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ar maybe address sanitizer is playing tricks on me. It's my own program but the error is thrown in a library.
> 1534712146 497956 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Puzzlang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57363&oldid=57358 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+52) 10/* Overview */ Use horizontal space instead of vertical
< 1534712171 871453 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION vaguely wonders if someone changed it the opposite way before

< 1534712218 730068 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes that happens if you pass improper arguments to the library.
< 1534712263 695291 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well I found my real mistake and address santizer is still complaining. so I guess that interacts badly with the library (it's an OpenCL thing)
< 1534712314 227156 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes the mistake is actually in the library; it is not always your own mistake.
< 1534712510 293644 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534712543 747486 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's somewhat interesting... the Intel OpenCL runtime reads from the zero page, and the nvidia one doesn't even show up to the party, if I enable the address sanitizer.
< 1534712688 990534 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://paste.debian.net/1038537/
< 1534712996 544240 :matlock!~matlock@156.203.71.102 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534713120 141593 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cute, intel's vendor id is 0x8086
< 1534713387 678110 :matlock!~matlock@156.203.71.102 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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< 1534713646 298163 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1534713733 668222 :Guest32399!~Guest3239@41.202.166.40 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1534714025 789158 :Guest32399!~Guest3239@41.202.166.40 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1534714209 809653 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How common is programs that use SQLite databases also allowing the user to use SQL to write extensions for the program?
< 1534714249 178405 :cats28!~cats@2a01:5580:dffc:1b7:8e59:73ff:fed4:7317 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534714298 758771 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1534714610 803568 :cats28!~cats@2a01:5580:dffc:1b7:8e59:73ff:fed4:7317 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1534714635 908080 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534715610 56828 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, did you real latest OOTS book?
< 1534716738 390363 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1534716758 920059 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm waiting to order the The Complete Olist of the Stick book
< 1534716766 587442 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is a shame because it'll probably never be released?
< 1534717134 932843 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( just put $1 into a bank account so you'll be able to pay for it when it is released )
< 1534717213 294804 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcb1dmnmcpyztw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1534717254 323816 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
< 1534717740 839238 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1534717770 652819 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: if you care, https://github.com/google/sanitizers/issues/629 has some information relevant to why the nvidia platform "disappears" with address sanitizer.
< 1534717828 612725 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and indeed it doesn't do that if I use  ASAN_OPTIONS=protect_shadow_gap=0)
< 1534717830 816752 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534717834 845631 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534718007 605644 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
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< 1534719332 527681 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1534719583 803933 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TRAVEL 3314]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=57364 5* 03GDavid 5* (+3624) 10Created page with "TRAVEL 33 is an esolang invented by [[User:GDavid]]. It's capable of sending information in time, even backwards therefore it's uncomputable.<br /> It got it's name from the f..."
< 1534719603 290465 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.6.5+deb2build2 - http://znc.in
< 1534719619 503725 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534720082 420487 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is anyone on here willing to help to write the picture editor program for use with Free Hero Mesh? It should not use any libraries other than those used by Free Hero Mesh itself, ideally, but maybe there is other idea
< 1534720321 934224 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is free hero mesb
< 1534720508 625341 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is a wiki and source repository:  http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/heromesh.ui/wcontent  The file format for the pictures is documented, and you can also look at the source codes. You can also add feature requests, bug reports, add more documentation if you want to, etc. So far I wrote all of it by myself, and expect I will continue to write most of it, but I also accept contributions if there are any.
< 1534720782 893410 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Free Hero Mesh is a program to make puzzle games.
< 1534720947 685975 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534721196 632108 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are all of the documentation of the file formats sense or is something difficult to understand?
< 1534721407 820178 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Free Hero Mesh is designed for puzzle games played on a rectangular grid (no larger than 64x64), without any randomness or any timing; it is purely turn-based. Hidden information is partially supported for classes with the CF_QUIZ flag set, although it is recommended not to hide information.
< 1534721483 522258 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
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< 1534721780 346165 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534722127 635063 :Guest88463!~Vlad@111.246.85.176 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534722152 33548 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google "bio-integrity metadata"
< 1534722153 16411 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/9497271/
< 1534722575 406140 :Guest88463!~Vlad@111.246.85.176 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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< 1534723334 497531 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1534723953 347855 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
< 1534724086 811961 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1534724531 897843 :nodist!~nodist@pool-108-41-59-111.nycmny.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1534726139 434204 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this heromesh thing sounds awesome
< 1534726860 774011 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
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< 1534727011 361271 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: Did you look at the documents/source-codes?
< 1534727054 592804 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534727081 72766 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no just ruod your description here
< 1534727083 152067 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ead*
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> 1534736383 717385 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Jix14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57365&oldid=8002 5* 03Jix 5* (-30) 10
> 1534736499 130252 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Jannis Harder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57366&oldid=53682 5* 03Jix 5* (-269) 10Remove seriously outdated information, update homepage link
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< 1534743708 293742 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
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> 1534746084 137022 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surface14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57367&oldid=32526 5* 03Madk 5* (+5) 10Fix broken dropbox link
> 1534746112 103722 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07M-code14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57368&oldid=23532 5* 03Madk 5* (+20) 10
> 1534746152 538058 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Grin14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57369&oldid=44990 5* 03Madk 5* (+20) 10Fix broken download link
> 1534746184 163063 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tri14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57370&oldid=23607 5* 03Madk 5* (+20) 10Fix broken download link
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> 1534746360 518989 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Cardinal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57371&oldid=54016 5* 03Madk 5* (+102) 10Add mirror for original file
> 1534746395 430322 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Fit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57372&oldid=23552 5* 03Madk 5* (+5) 10Fix broken download link
> 1534746438 319165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Fit14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57373&oldid=57372 5* 03Madk 5* (+0) 10
> 1534746449 865070 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Staq14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57374&oldid=39382 5* 03Madk 5* (+5) 10Fix broken download link
> 1534746485 62733 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PoGo14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57375&oldid=37520 5* 03Madk 5* (+5) 10Fix broken download link
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> 1534746540 66329 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07D1ffe7e45e14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57376&oldid=23528 5* 03Madk 5* (+5) 10Fx broken download link
> 1534746845 856999 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minimal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57377&oldid=54603 5* 03Madk 5* (+20) 10Fix broken download link
> 1534746919 706012 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Vrejvax14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57378&oldid=49753 5* 03Madk 5* (+22) 10Fix broken download link
> 1534746949 77733 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Vrejvax14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57379&oldid=57378 5* 03Madk 5* (-15) 10
> 1534747007 161625 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BrainCursion14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57380&oldid=40331 5* 03Madk 5* (+20) 10Fix broken download link
> 1534747047 855302 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Filth14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57381&oldid=18185 5* 03Madk 5* (+20) 10Fix broken download link
> 1534747084 948916 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF-PDA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57382&oldid=46405 5* 03Madk 5* (+20) 10Fix broken download link
> 1534747109 335416 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF-PDA14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57383&oldid=57382 5* 03Madk 5* (-13) 10Remove {{deadlink}}
> 1534747246 184370 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Vrejvax14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57384&oldid=57379 5* 03Madk 5* (+13) 10Explain difference between download links
> 1534747656 277524 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Madk14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57385&oldid=32519 5* 03Madk 5* (+141) 10
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> 1534763808 270279 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Functional()14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57386&oldid=57312 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+0) 10Updated the header
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< 1534764540 795310 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if the structure "monoid that isn't a submonoid of any group" has any interesting properties
< 1534764553 906160 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(e.g. booleans with the operation "or" and identity false)
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< 1534776656 605856 :slt!71d27a74@gateway/web/freenode/ip.113.210.122.116 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534776682 679602 :slt!71d27a74@gateway/web/freenode/ip.113.210.122.116 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1534776804 548487 :ABC__!71d27a74@gateway/web/freenode/ip.113.210.122.116 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1534778474 586841 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1534779411 857014 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534779429 501541 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534780505 603790 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancellative_semigroup#Embeddability_in_groups
< 1534780515 906544 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Taneb> I wonder if the structure "monoid that isn't a submonoid of any group" has any interesting properties <-- apparently it's complicated https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancellative_semigroup#Embeddability_in_groups
< 1534780531 52466 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1534780532 891060 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You two are very synchronized today
< 1534780538 3016 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :slow ninjaed
< 1534780558 674476 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: well the sample size is a bit low
< 1534780703 441131 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, GG: things could get really ugly if wooster catches on...
< 1534780728 995901 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we're going to find some interesting things about Higgs in this arc
< 1534780731 110042 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far he's been pretty oblivious for a top agent
< 1534780742 777076 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's possible he already knows
< 1534780759 62411 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose.
< 1534780769 704567 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems like the safest option.
< 1534780770 887120 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They were both with Klaus Wulfenbach for a decent while
< 1534780777 373452 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think)
< 1534780793 574204 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, although i have not seen them canonically in the same spot, i looked
< 1534780832 672512 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where was Wooster during the Castle Heterodyne mega-arc?
< 1534780833 191323 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wooster never entered castle heterodyne, i think he left the city before they got out.
< 1534780849 875752 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Higgs was introduced quite late in that arc
< 1534780855 294536 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :he went to reveal things to the jäger generals
< 1534780862 691318 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right
< 1534780899 59228 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although they were both interacting with the jägers during the years agatha was trapped
< 1534780906 83313 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i presume)
< 1534780916 398215 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they may still never have actually met.
< 1534780956 663278 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(higgs obviously visited zeetha who lived with the jägers, and wooster was assigned to them)
< 1534781046 696209 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think they were with klaus/gil at the same time.
< 1534781112 955340 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :higgs only showed up when klaus got hurt and hospitalized, and gil had sent wooster away just before that
< 1534781122 529219 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How long would it take for a fresh recruit to become Airman, Third Class?
< 1534781377 53974 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well he wouldn't be really noticeable during that time, and he may not have been much on castle wulfenbach
< 1534781403 583704 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a big place
< 1534781531 202137 :jix!~jix@jix.omnomnom.pizza PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: not active here or on the wiki anymore, but I still see highlights (if I'm not asleep)
< 1534781617 711927 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: one mystery is, was Higgs an entity before Mechanicsburg, or was he talent-scouted (by Albia?) afterwards?
< 1534781737 9986 :jix!~jix@jix.omnomnom.pizza PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: an interesting class of semigroups (or monoids) that cannot be embeded in a group should be semilattices (or bounded semilattices)
< 1534781999 908784 :jix!~jix@jix.omnomnom.pizza PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you assume idempotency (as in semilattices) and cancellation (as needed to embed in a group) you get that every element is the identity element, so you cannot have both (apart from the trivial group)
< 1534782515 686925 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcb1dmnmcpyztw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534783325 147541 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: it does seem to stretch logic a bit that higgs could stay close to gil _and_ keep a british navy job at the same time...
< 1534783377 456472 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: as i hoped
< 1534783381 781633 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86C39B.versanet.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534783877 812303 :wob_jonas!b03f18c4@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.196 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534783890 586928 :wob_jonas!b03f18c4@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages
< 1534783932 366817 :wob_jonas!b03f18c4@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, int-e: tom7 posted a blog post on his radar about his new game, and I replied there with my experiences.
< 1534784521 509379 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86C39B.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages
< 1534784521 793072 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any messages
< 1534784531 255689 :wob_jonas!b03f18c4@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: re SQLITE "sqlite3_result_blob64() function but but no corresponding sqlite3_value_bytes64() function", there's no sqlite3_value_bytes function either.
< 1534784556 744571 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: whoa whoa whoa, you're mentioning me by name many times
< 1534784589 707251 :wob_jonas!b03f18c4@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: see https://sqlite.org/c3ref/result_blob.html
< 1534784613 370084 :wob_jonas!b03f18c4@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those and https://sqlite.org/c3ref/result_subtype.html are the only documented functions starting with sqlite3_result_
< 1534784621 706617 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86C39B.versanet.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1534784637 775627 :wob_jonas!b03f18c4@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: is that a problem? tom7 already knows your infamy
< 1534784651 257148 :wob_jonas!b03f18c4@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this channel has a public log
< 1534784713 751120 :wob_jonas!b03f18c4@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if it's a problem, I can write to tom7 and ask to redact your name
< 1534784948 67131 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have infamy?
< 1534784955 58027 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess everything is logged anyway.
> 1534784976 269351 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07List of ideas14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57387&oldid=57362 5* 03GDavid 5* (+502) 10/* Joke/Silly Ideas */
< 1534784988 983116 :wob_jonas!b03f18c4@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: infamy in that you care about esoteric languages and tom7's esoteric projects
< 1534785102 490197 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've made it onto the Tom 7 radar before
> 1534785246 911305 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07List of ideas14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57388&oldid=57387 5* 03GDavid 5* (+73) 10/* Derivative Ideas */
< 1534785460 205908 :wob_jonas!b03f18c4@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: perhaps no, but https://esolangs.org/logs/2017-04-02.html "<shachaf> I made a small comment on the implementation of |, which apparently some other people made as well."
< 1534785533 828747 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's true, I sent a twit once.
< 1534785575 856709 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later
< 1534785971 241004 :Shragazord!~quassel@bzq-109-64-109-207.red.bezeqint.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534786761 453629 :impomatic!~digital_w@host109-150-0-69.range109-150.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534786789 774419 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1534788371 911665 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07List of ideas14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57389&oldid=57388 5* 03GDavid 5* (+379) 10/* Based on dimensions */
< 1534788762 208321 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :did it become a character trait?
< 1534788882 600479 :wob_jonas!b03f18c4@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: what?
< 1534789156 72385 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: shachaf talked about twits
< 1534789204 446220 :wob_jonas!b03f18c4@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: oh, by the way. Given how much the title screen helped, I only grepped the English frequency word list once, for decoding "cylinder" from "c..in.er"
< 1534789293 631026 :wob_jonas!b03f18c4@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only other words that caused any trouble were "ovoposit" and "tale", but I didn't grep for them.
< 1534789419 229846 :wob_jonas!b03f18c4@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"tale" because I assumed for a short time that it was a typo for "take", since you told me there's a typo, but testing its behavior made it clear that it had to be "talk"
< 1534789462 343384 :wob_jonas!b03f18c4@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.196 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1534789500 144168 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In france, 80 is the weed number
< 1534790302 792692 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell wob_jonas oh did you miss the difference between 'e' and 'k' in "running out of space"? it's subtle, but it's there.
< 1534790303 85885 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1534791125 777828 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin-dissents
< 1534791137 785660 :shikhin-dissents!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin
< 1534793806 743335 :wob_jonas!b03f187e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.126 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534794111 187000 :wob_jonas!b03f187e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: wtf, it's "talk" not "tale" even in the compo version. but I transcribed it wrong on my sheet of paper, and only looked at that after.
< 1534794115 138141 :wob_jonas!b03f187e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I knew there was a difference, because "look" has the "k", and "look" was one of the earliest words I saw
< 1534794121 957568 :wob_jonas!b03f187e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: but then I checked and double checked my paper, and my paper had the alien symbol for "e"
< 1534794172 540428 :wob_jonas!b03f187e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it must be that, because I trust tom7's integrity in this particular case and I don't think he fixed that annoying typo in the compo version of the game
< 1534794238 702607 :wob_jonas!b03f187e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I was trying to see a typo because shachaf told me there was a typo in that line and I didn't know the third word was a typo
< 1534794285 290095 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Some day when I have a solid week to spare, I'd like to make a complete game in this style."
< 1534794445 376712 :wob_jonas!b03f187e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah, that's not an enforcable promise, but tom7 might even be crazy enough to do it.
< 1534794580 661615 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I didn't tell you that.
< 1534794652 917159 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1534794675 231155 :wob_jonas!b03f187e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: and it's because of the shape of "e" and "k" that the closing credits says "tom 7" instead of "tom7", because "tom7" could be confused with "tome".
< 1534794716 810306 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1534794757 518714 :jix_!~jix@jix.omnomnom.pizza JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534794930 60911 :jix!~jix@jix.omnomnom.pizza QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1534794930 358689 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1534794931 216165 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534794931 216211 :wob_jonas!b03f187e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sorry. that was int-e. he told me there was a typo.
< 1534794931 216227 :wob_jonas!b03f187e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"how many typos are there? it's kind of embarrassing that there's one in one of the commands :)" => well, there was "please make yourself", but none other I think
< 1534794999 391693 :rain1!~rain1@69.52.93.209.dyn.plus.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534795155 941026 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534795308 556912 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: that one wasn't a typo, it just got cut off
< 1534795325 985180 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and it didn't get cut off for me, somehow...)
< 1534795739 580206 :wob_jonas!b03f187e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: let me re-check that in the compo version
< 1534795739 717943 :wob_jonas!b03f187e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno.
< 1534795739 717982 :wob_jonas!b03f187e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now the compo says "Please make yourself at home!" too. Strange.
< 1534795739 916111 :wob_jonas!b03f187e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I checked that multiple times!
< 1534795739 916148 :wob_jonas!b03f187e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand
< 1534795745 424086 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1534795748 571571 :gurmble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534795762 627114 :gurmble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble NICK :grumble
< 1534795929 653116 :wob_jonas!b03f187e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah!
< 1534795936 302513 :wob_jonas!b03f187e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: there is a typo
< 1534795958 851304 :wob_jonas!b03f187e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you talk to Kirk once you already have the energy weapon, the screen scrolls differently, and it does get cut off and say "Please make yourself"
< 1534795978 849544 :wob_jonas!b03f187e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe it's not the energy weapon that matters but just how you scroll the screen
< 1534795993 285263 :wob_jonas!b03f187e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's not the energy weapon.
< 1534795997 230025 :wob_jonas!b03f187e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's how you scroll the screen.
< 1534796025 66797 :wob_jonas!b03f187e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depending on how you scroll it, you can make it say "Please make yourself at" too
< 1534796063 132809 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense
< 1534796063 607219 :wob_jonas!b03f187e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "Please make yourself at ho" with a single column from the m visible
< 1534796066 905225 :wob_jonas!b03f187e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably others
< 1534796074 151303 :wob_jonas!b03f187e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kirk just talks above himself
< 1534796107 513534 :wob_jonas!b03f187e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just like other cases when a message appears in the wrong place
> 1534796271 631161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nestplate14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=57390 5* 03GDavid 5* (+1543) 10Created page with "Nestplate (from the combination of the words nest and template) is a language invented by [[User:GDavid]] to solve the problem that C++ templates are sometimes too readable. I..."
> 1534796307 383984 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:GDavid14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57391&oldid=57042 5* 03GDavid 5* (+33) 10
> 1534796390 113111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57392&oldid=57228 5* 03GDavid 5* (+16) 10/* T */
< 1534796422 370919 :wob_jonas!b03f187e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! There's a second solution for the tetris puzzle that I hadn't noticed before
> 1534796430 819454 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57393&oldid=57392 5* 03GDavid 5* (+16) 10/* N */
< 1534796443 482139 :wob_jonas!b03f187e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The tool is in different columns in them
< 1534796484 405243 :wob_jonas!b03f187e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait
< 1534796486 255537 :wob_jonas!b03f187e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wrong
< 1534796488 584717 :wob_jonas!b03f187e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a solution
< 1534796511 221404 :wob_jonas!b03f187e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's only one solution.
< 1534796636 866742 :wob_jonas!b03f187e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.126 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1534796810 364218 :rain1!~rain1@69.52.93.209.dyn.plus.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1
> 1534798132 653591 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07List of ideas14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57394&oldid=57389 5* 03GDavid 5* (+312) 10/* Looks Like */
< 1534800247 458667 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534801924 705931 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcb1dmnmcpyztw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1534803135 964179 :Esqapezord!~quassel@bzq-79-176-34-87.red.bezeqint.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534803174 203822 :Shragazord!~quassel@bzq-109-64-109-207.red.bezeqint.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1534803621 629714 :impomatic!~digital_w@host109-150-0-69.range109-150.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1534803733 762695 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534804395 94116 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
< 1534804673 681035 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534804843 673838 :Shragazord!~quassel@bzq-79-176-99-117.red.bezeqint.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534804874 867109 :Esqapezord!~quassel@bzq-79-176-34-87.red.bezeqint.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1534804917 788862 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534806484 706590 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534806747 717168 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534807112 576717 :Esqapezord!~quassel@bzq-79-176-87-244.red.bezeqint.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534807126 696570 :Shragazord!~quassel@bzq-79-176-99-117.red.bezeqint.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1534807433 712669 :Shragazord!~quassel@bzq-79-177-51-214.red.bezeqint.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534807490 600097 :Esqapezord!~quassel@bzq-79-176-87-244.red.bezeqint.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1534809404 654550 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1534810311 570217 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1534810422 678341 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534811603 785847 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1534812378 491063 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1534815444 479261 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534818987 665471 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534819539 288816 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534821815 416757 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534822120 521118 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534825531 658989 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534825625 519674 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1534825635 106348 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534825771 584282 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534825780 479864 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1534826028 496858 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1534826264 829635 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1534826707 507332 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57395&oldid=56583 5* 03Jabutosama 5* (+145) 10/* General languages */ added wismaster
> 1534828304 999623 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Xylochoron 5*  10New user account
< 1534828334 769006 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1534829748 644938 :Esqapezord!~quassel@bzq-79-177-88-151.red.bezeqint.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534829770 671110 :Shragazord!~quassel@bzq-79-177-51-214.red.bezeqint.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1534829780 271214 :Esqapezord!~quassel@bzq-79-177-88-151.red.bezeqint.net NICK :Shragazord
> 1534830230 813088 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57396&oldid=57357 5* 03Xylochoron 5* (+116) 10/* Introductions */
> 1534830386 522649 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57397&oldid=57396 5* 03Xylochoron 5* (+153) 10/* Introductions */
> 1534830431 526663 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57398&oldid=57393 5* 03Xylochoron 5* (+11) 10/* D */
< 1534832219 782460 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534832507 780176 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
> 1534832839 344329 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07D'ni14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=57399 5* 03Xylochoron 5* (+3252) 10Created page
< 1534833858 490063 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gixoxfztjamokear QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1534834173 682354 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534834258 732963 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1534834742 906992 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1534835467 585132 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534835731 620226 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1534836531 799306 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcb1dmnmcpyztw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534837031 846890 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcb1dmnmcpyztw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1534837149 772892 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534837684 496162 :Shragazord!~quassel@bzq-79-177-88-151.red.bezeqint.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1534837779 854048 :Shragazord!~quassel@bzq-79-176-112-116.red.bezeqint.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534838860 637609 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534839188 828255 :Fogity!~Fogity@hr-sgs.kvi.sgsnet.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1534839345 689697 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534839948 386669 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534839975 654387 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we dispell the +R channel flag now perhaps?
< 1534839998 791997 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fromroman XCVIII
< 1534840000 97342 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :98
< 1534840024 607040 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` echo "$[$(fromroman XCVIII) + 1]"
< 1534840025 621021 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :99
< 1534840041 207777 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: still getting spam in another channel
< 1534840101 195754 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: ok then
< 1534840287 637265 :Fogity!~Fogity@hr-sgs.kvi.sgsnet.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534840854 690062 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1534840933 453720 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534842239 942955 :Dworf!~Dworf@wndson1265w-lp130-03-65-94-250-100.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534842335 689690 :Dworf!~Dworf@wndson1265w-lp130-03-65-94-250-100.dsl.bell.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
> 1534843288 664122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07List of ideas14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57400&oldid=57394 5* 03GDavid 5* (+62) 10/* Derivative Ideas */
< 1534843308 700420 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`toroman 888
< 1534843309 467174 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :DCCCLXXXVIII
< 1534843317 706467 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`toroman 8888
< 1534843318 391099 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :DMMMDCCCLXXXVIII
< 1534844090 849541 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@2601:602:8500:d0d1:a866:942b:c864:7267 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
> 1534845843 563369 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07List of ideas14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57401&oldid=57400 5* 03GDavid 5* (+1174) 10/* Ideas related to esoteric operating systems, esoteric processors and esoteric computers */
< 1534847253 460833 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534847320 488667 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534848383 243516 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :Welcome to the international tarpaulin for esoteric programming language discussion, design, development and deployment! | https://esolangs.org | logs: https://esolangs.org/logs/ http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf
< 1534848496 975561 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1534848525 407299 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION was going to point out the channel isn't technically +R

< 1534848560 203096 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if any server uses the HTTP 418 status code as "intended"
< 1534849098 457545 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`toroman 8000
< 1534849099 110134 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :DMMM
< 1534849106 127171 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't seem quite right.
< 1534849115 990975 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/toroman
< 1534849116 652293 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/usr/bin/perl \ sub k{my$t;$t=~y/IVXLC/XLCDM/,$t.=("",I,II,III,IV,V,VI,VII,VIII,IX)[$_]for/./g;$t}$_=(shift=~/(\w+)/)[0];print k,$/
< 1534849134 679837 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`toroman 7000
< 1534849135 356780 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :DMM
< 1534849155 949179 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i see
< 1534849164 237311 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`toroman 5000
< 1534849164 875483 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :D
< 1534849174 372991 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`toroman 500
< 1534849175 19923 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :D
< 1534849177 492180 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dislik
< 1534849179 148525 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e
< 1534849185 83329 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop spamming
< 1534849190 50715 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/toroman
< 1534849190 704287 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/usr/bin/perl \ sub k{my$t;$t=~y/IVXLC/XLCDM/,$t.=("",I,II,III,IV,V,VI,VII,VIII,IX)[$_]for/./g;$t}$_=(shift=~/(\w+)/)[0];print k,$/
< 1534849232 740260 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sled bin/toroman//s,.XLCDM,DM/XLCDMEE,
< 1534849235 3300 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/toroman//#!/usr/bin/perl \ sub k{my$t;$t=~y/IVXLCDM/XLCDMEE/,$t.=("",I,II,III,IV,V,VI,VII,VIII,IX)[$_]for/./g;$t}$_=(shift=~/(\w+)/)[0];print k,$/
< 1534849241 663499 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`toroman 8000
< 1534849242 517985 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :EMMM
< 1534849323 622271 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` toroman 1 2 3
< 1534849325 353087 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I
< 1534849333 598118 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`toroman 1 2 3
< 1534849334 295677 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I
< 1534849367 459007 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`toroman --clockface 4
< 1534849368 191356 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1534849397 300714 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sled bin/toroman//s,print,$_="Number too large" if /E/;,
< 1534849398 867647 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/toroman//#!/usr/bin/perl \ sub k{my$t;$t=~y/IVXLCDM/XLCDMEE/,$t.=("",I,II,III,IV,V,VI,VII,VIII,IX)[$_]for/./g;$t}$_=(shift=~/(\w+)/)[0];$_="Number too large" if /E/; k,$/
< 1534849400 925122 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1534849405 19824 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert
< 1534849406 122067 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1534849414 137226 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sled bin/toroman//s,print,$_="Number too large" if /E/;print,
< 1534849415 627629 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/toroman//#!/usr/bin/perl \ sub k{my$t;$t=~y/IVXLCDM/XLCDMEE/,$t.=("",I,II,III,IV,V,VI,VII,VIII,IX)[$_]for/./g;$t}$_=(shift=~/(\w+)/)[0];$_="Number too large" if /E/;print k,$/
< 1534849423 181431 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`toroman 8000
< 1534849423 807089 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :EMMM
< 1534849427 19742 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn
< 1534849447 695465 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm
< 1534849471 661045 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh*
< 1534849475 562543 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert
< 1534849476 648685 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1534849482 830988 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`toroman 8000
< 1534849483 403934 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :EMMM
< 1534849496 6575 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/toroman
< 1534849496 565242 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/usr/bin/perl \ sub k{my$t;$t=~y/IVXLCDM/XLCDMEE/,$t.=("",I,II,III,IV,V,VI,VII,VIII,IX)[$_]for/./g;$t}$_=(shift=~/(\w+)/)[0];print k,$/
< 1534849687 992071 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i don't understand how that works.
< 1534849715 439970 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for now it'll just print E for too large numbers.
< 1534850341 129155 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm oh.
< 1534850480 542 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sled bin/toroman//s,g;,g;$t~s/.*E.*/Number too large;/,
< 1534850481 603635 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/toroman//#!/usr/bin/perl \ sub k{my$t;$t=~y/IVXLCDM/XLCDMEE/,$t.=("",I,II,III,IV,V,VI,VII,VIII,IX)[$_]for/./g;$t~s/.*E.*/Number too large;/$t}$_=(shift=~/(\w+)/)[0];print k,$/
< 1534850493 45143 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1534850498 382639 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert
< 1534850499 392729 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1534850506 399487 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sled bin/toroman//s,g;,g;$t~s/.*E.*/Number too large/;,
< 1534850507 931678 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/toroman//#!/usr/bin/perl \ sub k{my$t;$t=~y/IVXLCDM/XLCDMEE/,$t.=("",I,II,III,IV,V,VI,VII,VIII,IX)[$_]for/./g;$t~s/.*E.*/Number too large/;$t}$_=(shift=~/(\w+)/)[0];print k,$/
< 1534850512 334253 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`toroman 8000
< 1534850513 75897 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax error at /hackenv/bin/toroman line 2, near "$t~" \ No comma allowed after filehandle at /hackenv/bin/toroman line 2.
< 1534850522 760927 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fff
< 1534850547 9552 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert
< 1534850548 91339 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1534850587 705126 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1534850601 105002 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sled bin/toroman//s,g;,g;$t=~s/.*E.*/Number too large/;,
< 1534850602 519810 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/toroman//#!/usr/bin/perl \ sub k{my$t;$t=~y/IVXLCDM/XLCDMEE/,$t.=("",I,II,III,IV,V,VI,VII,VIII,IX)[$_]for/./g;$t=~s/.*E.*/Number too large/;$t}$_=(shift=~/(\w+)/)[0];print k,$/
< 1534850607 81444 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :too long no perl
< 1534850611 590473 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`toroman 8000
< 1534850612 446013 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Number too large
< 1534850619 2872 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`toroman 800
< 1534850619 668134 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :DCCC
< 1534850694 628459 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( note to self: don't say "stop spamming" just before starting HackEso coding )
< 1534850813 653116 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1534851151 291988 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xfojopdkbcffnvyb JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534851365 594641 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still find the =~ very confusing... my first instinct is to use ~=.
< 1534851390 127041 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`"
< 1534851390 804675 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :910) <RodgerTheGreat> an ieee-754 double does not have enough granular precision to express how little I care \ 643) <Phantom_Hoover> Just because you can't design a reliable Monopoly machine out of chocolate doesn't mean nobody else can.
< 1534851450 48775 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google "monopoly machine"
< 1534851450 976689 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9-NIN6Fpls
< 1534851548 858901 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: wtf!
< 1534851554 349272 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has regrets

< 1534852474 567565 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later
> 1534852624 519785 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda Calculus to Brainfuck14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=57402 5* 03A 5* (+701) 10New idea.
< 1534852781 114533 :impomatic!~digital_w@host86-144-19-142.range86-144.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534853020 514766 :Esqapezord!~quassel@bzq-79-177-48-42.red.bezeqint.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534853099 827358 :Shragazord!~quassel@bzq-79-176-112-116.red.bezeqint.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
> 1534853515 412903 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda Calculus to Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57403&oldid=57402 5* 03A 5* (+338) 10comments
> 1534853560 748067 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda Calculus to Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57404&oldid=57403 5* 03A 5* (+23) 10
> 1534854227 358855 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda Calculus to Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57405&oldid=57404 5* 03A 5* (+378) 10
> 1534854537 300254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda Calculus to Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57406&oldid=57405 5* 03A 5* (+288) 10
< 1534854703 645812 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
> 1534854796 932491 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda Calculus to Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57407&oldid=57406 5* 03A 5* (+176) 10
> 1534855122 269195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda Calculus to Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57408&oldid=57407 5* 03A 5* (+221) 10/* Bored? Let's enjoy an example */
> 1534855216 309145 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda Calculus to Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57409&oldid=57408 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10/* Bored? Let's enjoy an example */
> 1534855437 332685 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda Calculus to Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57410&oldid=57409 5* 03A 5* (+196) 10/* Bored? Let's enjoy an example */
> 1534855899 241970 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda Calculus to Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57411&oldid=57410 5* 03A 5* (+8) 10I think I sound too rude.
< 1534856019 41844 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :...spam
< 1534858404 545538 :Torgeir!~Torgeir@HSI-KBW-109-192-044-071.hsi6.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534858615 15224 :Torgeir!~Torgeir@HSI-KBW-109-192-044-071.hsi6.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534858663 623838 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86C6A7.versanet.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534859227 94474 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900:8319:87ab:f00:d5de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534859812 456549 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-erfurcygkxauhwgj JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534860503 517970 :Esqapezord!~quassel@bzq-79-177-48-42.red.bezeqint.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1534860960 653740 :Shragazord!~quassel@bzq-79-177-94-154.red.bezeqint.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534861103 407081 :nkuttler0!~nkuttler@i125-203-184-14.s41.a027.ap.plala.or.jp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534861366 490552 :nkuttler0!~nkuttler@i125-203-184-14.s41.a027.ap.plala.or.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
> 1534862270 47299 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Fish14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57412&oldid=53269 5* 03Kaa-kun 5* (+17) 10
> 1534862771 775720 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57413&oldid=46851 5* 03Kaa-kun 5* (+528) 10Quick before I merge with the other bots!
> 1534862827 420333 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Brainfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57414&oldid=57413 5* 03Kaa-kun 5* (-2) 10What the heck happened?
> 1534862949 575699 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57415&oldid=57414 5* 03Kaa-kun 5* (-53) 10/* Last HalfOr Is It? */
< 1534863990 784486 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534864116 869722 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1534864314 668808 :Shragazord!~quassel@bzq-79-177-94-154.red.bezeqint.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1534864404 735375 :Shragazord!~quassel@bzq-79-176-38-60.red.bezeqint.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534864949 662607 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534866105 747420 :Esqapezord!~quassel@bzq-79-176-38-60.red.bezeqint.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534866117 163445 :zseri_!~zseri@i5E86C6A7.versanet.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534866247 774534 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534866316 481694 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: toroman is based on my old golf code. it is only guaranteed to work for valid input, that is, integers in 1..3999 inclusive. on other integers, it might give a stupid result, but it won't have bad side effects
< 1534866322 543862 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86C6A7.versanet.de QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534866324 173536 :Shragazord!~quassel@bzq-79-176-38-60.red.bezeqint.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1534866324 173587 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1534866416 59596 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`toroman nonsense
< 1534866416 702673 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1534866427 740682 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`toroman 3stooges
< 1534866428 618584 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Number too large
< 1534866445 139947 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`toroman 8foldway
< 1534866445 840090 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Number too large
< 1534866456 620385 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`toroman 8
< 1534866457 244528 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :VIII
< 1534866460 35963 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`toroman 8t
< 1534866460 759374 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :LXXX
< 1534866477 738186 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534866507 890530 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ dispell the / dispel the /
< 1534866512 245229 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(way earlier)
< 1534866615 556344 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1534866627 6098 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534867159 539376 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1136
< 1534867160 337670 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1136: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
< 1534867180 645982 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534867804 216567 :Shragazord!~quassel@bzq-79-176-11-208.red.bezeqint.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534867850 671965 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1534867853 662151 :Esqapezord!~quassel@bzq-79-176-38-60.red.bezeqint.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1534869573 263880 :Shragazord!~quassel@bzq-79-176-11-208.red.bezeqint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :got any recommendations esolang for a first time? one which is interesting and wont make me want to kill myself?
< 1534869891 30809 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcb1dmnmcpyztw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534870142 549934 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shragazord: I quite like Piet, personally
< 1534870171 107069 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dangermouse.net/esoteric/piet.html
< 1534870310 243983 :Shragazord!~quassel@bzq-79-176-11-208.red.bezeqint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok that is weird but very interesting
< 1534870331 518859 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was actually the first programming language full stop I ever learnt!
< 1534870405 471798 :Shragazord!~quassel@bzq-79-176-11-208.red.bezeqint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :even before the mainstream ones?
< 1534870498 34895 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah
< 1534870507 606760 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was... eleven or twelve, I think
< 1534870551 810379 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now I work for a company that does Haskell, circuit design, and neural networks, all at once, so go figure
< 1534870600 531677 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it artificial neural networks or the real thing?
< 1534870620 181011 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The former, I'm afraid
< 1534871173 667563 :zseri_!~zseri@i5E86C6A7.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 0
< 1534871174 373156 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 0: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
< 1534871205 83185 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, a bonus olist?
< 1534871257 883883 :zseri_!~zseri@i5E86C6A7.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help olist
< 1534871259 44988 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist is update notification for the webcomic Order of the Stick. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/ootslatest.html
< 1534871491 617819 :zseri_!~zseri@i5E86C6A7.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1137
< 1534871492 228554 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1137: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
< 1534871530 490215 :zseri_!~zseri@i5E86C6A7.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`toroman 0x1
< 1534871531 59998 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I
< 1534871538 760297 :zseri_!~zseri@i5E86C6A7.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`toroman 0xff
< 1534871539 304690 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1534871547 18726 :zseri_!~zseri@i5E86C6A7.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`toroman 0x16
< 1534871547 604189 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :XVI
< 1534871556 29005 :zseri_!~zseri@i5E86C6A7.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`toroman 3000
< 1534871556 610793 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :MMM
< 1534871559 88525 :zseri_!~zseri@i5E86C6A7.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`toroman 4000
< 1534871559 692160 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Number too large
< 1534871563 580613 :zseri_!~zseri@i5E86C6A7.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`toroman 3999
< 1534871564 360175 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :MMMCMXCIX
< 1534871602 921046 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help me
< 1534871604 118868 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me is a proud member of the tEaM.
< 1534871610 812273 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1534871626 72126 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help help
< 1534871627 252803 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`help [<command>] gives HackEgo's default help message, or help for a specific command. Or currently possibly some other wisdom.
< 1534871737 98668 :zseri_!~zseri@i5E86C6A7.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help help help
< 1534871738 306962 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`help help? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1534871753 327286 :zseri_!~zseri@i5E86C6A7.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help "help help"
< 1534871754 541398 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`"help help"? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1534871769 360271 :zseri_!~zseri@i5E86C6A7.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help toroman
< 1534871770 570550 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`toroman? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1534871776 647533 :zseri_!~zseri@i5E86C6A7.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1534871891 62684 :zseri_!~zseri@i5E86C6A7.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help
< 1534871891 298280 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch [<output-file>] <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
< 1534872448 725545 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534873201 229699 :Esqapezord!~quassel@bzq-79-177-112-165.red.bezeqint.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534873307 177108 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xfojopdkbcffnvyb QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1534873316 261957 :Shragazord!~quassel@bzq-79-176-11-208.red.bezeqint.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1534873415 584078 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I've got a ridiculous project in mind
< 1534873436 807807 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just ordered a receipt printer
< 1534873468 715547 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to try to use it as a computer terminal
< 1534874868 510631 :badet0s25!~badet0s@111.95.74.0 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534875150 667496 :badet0s25!~badet0s@111.95.74.0 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534875220 240868 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1534875356 271956 :Esqapezord!~quassel@bzq-79-177-112-165.red.bezeqint.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1534875632 219493 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534875895 737418 :LKoen_!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534875945 866108 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534876030 658520 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1534876460 829226 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1534876655 159035 :sparr!~sparr@pdpc/supporter/active/sparr QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1534876708 799676 :sparr!~sparr@2604:a880:800:10::103:f001 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534876937 484198 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1534876986 118831 :Hoolootwo!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534877048 308074 :sawdey21!~sawdey21@84.124.157.179.dyn.user.ono.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534877279 458863 :limbo!~limbo@121.170.111.129 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534877334 645913 :sawdey21!~sawdey21@84.124.157.179.dyn.user.ono.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534877382 875952 :limbo!~limbo@121.170.111.129 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1534878752 945939 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534879041 646166 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ynsncdewrbwukekt JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534879045 839161 :ekl-!~ekl-@p700065-ipngn8501hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534879206 697631 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534879250 986671 :ekl-!~ekl-@p700065-ipngn8501hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534879409 25845 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534880044 545901 :zemhill____!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1534880044 545949 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1534880046 971654 :zemhill____!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534880319 294900 :rdococ!rdococ@cheapiesystems.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534880351 837593 :lifthrasiir_!~lifthrasi@ec2-52-79-98-81.ap-northeast-2.compute.amazonaws.com QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1534880353 225588 :trn!jhj@prone.ws QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1534880353 598865 :mniip!mniip@freenode/staff/mniip QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1534880355 493384 :Storkman!~Storkman@storkman.xyz QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1534880357 994866 :Storkman_!~Storkman@storkman.xyz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534880362 442807 :trn!jhj@prone.ws JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534880438 685797 :mniip!mniip@freenode/staff/mniip JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534880730 783264 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@ec2-52-79-98-81.ap-northeast-2.compute.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534880872 812738 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1534880907 642110 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1534881063 830376 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534881106 134665 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zseri_: I think you mean o strip number 1136.
< 1534881155 134208 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know some people can see tomorrow's qwantz strip, but I'm quite sure it's literally impossible in the case of o. The Giant has said that he doesn't use a buffer, it wouldn't work for him, he posts any strip when it's complete.
< 1534881211 344021 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534881219 70595 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :He might be lying
< 1534881234 506070 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there might be telepaths
< 1534881237 396256 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: not in that case
< 1534881239 218870 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :time travelers
< 1534881240 675919 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc
< 1534881250 297606 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :precogs, I guess, is the next one
< 1534881255 439807 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yes, but they shouldn't ring the obell early
< 1534881271 261361 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`' obell
< 1534881271 955819 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1534881275 582714 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`'
< 1534881276 423743 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :682) <elliott> @more  <elliott> @more  <elliott> @more  <elliott> @more  <elliott> @more  <elliott> @more  <elliott> @more  <elliott> :(
< 1534881278 250769 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? obell
< 1534881279 335713 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :obell? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1534881290 367787 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the obell is what you ring with the `olist command
< 1534881305 626720 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: yeah I did get that
< 1534881313 517908 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :go and help the Giant instead by downloading all the strips from the future and sending them to him so he can draw them more easily.
< 1534881329 30737 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I had a wisdom for it, but deleted it when I deleted my most silly wisdoms
< 1534881336 275137 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits wisdom/obell
< 1534881338 100929 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonäs b_jonäs
< 1534881341 62024 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see
< 1534881344 762935 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't care about oots.
< 1534881650 46524 :mniip!mniip@freenode/staff/mniip QUIT :Ping timeout: 608 seconds
< 1534882068 480638 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`' indent
< 1534882069 236552 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :59) <oklofok> i use dynamic indentation, i indent lines k times, if they are used O(n^k) times during a run of the program
< 1534882094 672198 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's... pretty good
< 1534882133 522807 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could make a language out of that
< 1534882183 282639 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the more you execute a lie of code, the more it needs to be indented
< 1534882219 54630 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'd automate that with profile-guided indentation
< 1534882256 340804 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can put short loops in one line to inline them
< 1534882260 25617 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um
< 1534882262 46687 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unroll them
< 1534882279 192960 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be heaven for those people who keep asking "how can I do ... in one line?" on perl forums
< 1534882291 848877 :bradcomp1!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534882310 960539 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just don't allow more than one command per line
< 1534882315 937208 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, goto only
< 1534882338 448651 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, like the good old 60's and 70's?
< 1534882346 667758 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/'//g
< 1534882362 369004 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( style rule 0) always indent newlines all the way to the end of the line )
< 1534882475 729450 :ineiros_!ineiros@kapsi.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534882491 63597 :atriq!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534882662 945314 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 QUIT :Disconnected by services
< 1534882669 309094 :atriq!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org NICK :Taneb
< 1534882767 813644 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1534882770 873298 :ineiros!ineiros@kapsi.fi QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1534882815 425340 :wob_jonas!b03f193a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.58 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1534883996 972175 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534884019 252883 :zseri_!~zseri@i5E86C6A7.versanet.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1534884542 494147 :Hoolootwo!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue NICK :Hooloovo0
< 1534884915 717136 :mniip!mniip@freenode/staff/mniip JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534887205 997925 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcb1dmnmcpyztw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1534887453 535457 :GeekDude!~G33kDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1534887601 440103 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)
< 1534887796 425793 :GeekDude!~G33kDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534888098 669579 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534888183 968389 :GeekDude!~G33kDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1534888978 75488 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving...
< 1534890450 556503 :subo!~subo@190-72-18-202.dyn.dsl.cantv.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534890541 479681 :subo!~subo@190-72-18-202.dyn.dsl.cantv.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534890756 186320 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1534890952 775605 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534891581 52626 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900:8319:87ab:f00:d5de PART :#esoteric
< 1534892011 662510 :Cory!~Cory@59.6.28.130 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534892035 574682 :Cory!~Cory@59.6.28.130 NICK :Guest4964
< 1534892295 665572 :Guest4964!~Cory@59.6.28.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534893265 970907 :bradcomp1!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1534894286 34846 :cottongin0!~cottongin@105.10.100.220.dy.bbexcite.jp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534894399 984495 :cottongin0!~cottongin@105.10.100.220.dy.bbexcite.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534894542 113423 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534894761 648756 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534895009 782076 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1534895026 71046 :bradcomp1!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534895047 931889 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534895289 964507 :bradcomp1!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1534896958 628591 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is perhaps not the answer you are looking for, but it is indeed a programming language (it is Turing complete)"
< 1534896984 789174 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Turing completeness is neither sufficient or necessary for something to be a programming language.
< 1534897445 528277 :LKoen_!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
< 1534897568 463911 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1534899901 502444 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1534901018 880617 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: SULFUROUS CHICKEN
< 1534905157 232186 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are .sid files turing complete? I think they may be turing complete
< 1534905629 834438 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do contain 6502 machine code. I should totally make an infinite length one
< 1534905692 578409 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Machine code is usually not TC.
< 1534905981 948611 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, by the same line of reasoning nor is C.
< 1534906013 101641 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just an FSM with a fairly large state.
< 1534906155 789491 :AlwaysHigh18!~AlwaysHig@41.250.87.15 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534906191 399248 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1534906313 267959 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that it helps you much. Sufficiently large state makes things like a halting predicate practically infeasible even if they are theoretically permissible.
< 1534906359 624280 :AlwaysHigh18!~AlwaysHig@41.250.87.15 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534906553 351862 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering recently how much of the algorithmic reasoning people do doesn't really make sense in the presence of even a large upper bound.
< 1534907997 929324 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if 6510 machine code could be considered turing complete if you put assumptions on what address 0 and 1 do (e.g. maybe you could send a signal to switch RAM out in a tape-like fashion)
< 1534908009 547495 :bradcomp1!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534908032 879021 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or 6502 + special address in memory for shenanigans like that
< 1534908567 713976 :bradcomp1!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534909239 306383 :bradcomp1!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534910310 613653 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not too difficult to extend the 6502 to arbitrary bit-lengths, I think
< 1534910331 261275 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, might get silly after a bit, but I've worked with a 24-bit version a bit
< 1534910780 869815 :bradcomp1!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1534911455 114454 :rdococ!rdococ@cheapiesystems.com QUIT :Changing host
< 1534911455 114502 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534911491 85992 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1534911506 866127 :bradcomp1!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534911713 473804 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534912204 866535 :irc-5225225!~irc-52252@p928155-ipngn200701sizuokaden.shizuoka.ocn.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534912320 454902 :irc-5225225!~irc-52252@p928155-ipngn200701sizuokaden.shizuoka.ocn.ne.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534917291 984301 :Shragazord!~quassel@bzq-79-176-84-43.red.bezeqint.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534917403 810981 :Shragazord!~quassel@bzq-79-176-84-43.red.bezeqint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: sounds interesting
< 1534917839 951562 :bradcomp1!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1534918625 241825 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ynsncdewrbwukekt QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1534918924 711224 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minima.sid by Wyndex seems to play forever
< 1534918951 372547 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :STIL gives a shorter duration though. If someone were to make a song that infinitely varies.. hmm
< 1534919038 264762 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(STIL = text file describing all the music in HVSC (High Voltage SID Collection))
< 1534919304 959136 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh huh STIL isnt where players get song lenght, there's a Songlengths.txt
< 1534919835 402369 :bradcomp1!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534920095 410794 :bradcomp1!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534920677 279609 :irrationalist!~alfalfa@unaffiliated/irrationalist JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534921935 177874 :irrationalist!~alfalfa@unaffiliated/irrationalist QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534922360 657011 :d1b26!~d1b@121.142.199.116 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534922578 281906 :d1b26!~d1b@121.142.199.116 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534922989 945844 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcb1dmnmcpyztw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534923283 564162 :fractal1!~fractal@186-95-2-183.genericrev.cantv.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534923313 586118 :fractal1!~fractal@186-95-2-183.genericrev.cantv.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534924769 986287 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcb1dmnmcpyztw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1534925297 23829 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1534925381 730458 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534925511 279107 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534925608 267645 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1534925862 784999 :hsr93!~alfalfa@unaffiliated/irrationalist JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534925911 92173 :hsr93!~alfalfa@unaffiliated/irrationalist QUIT :Client Quit
< 1534925991 455006 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534926340 465277 :bradcomp1!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534926612 839348 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534926613 124193 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1534926618 455332 :bradcomp1!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1534926760 72454 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534926760 203135 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1534926857 707320 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534926857 804955 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1534926931 419976 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534926931 514503 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1534926990 810015 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534926990 989988 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1534927063 17523 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534927063 126315 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1534927149 685572 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534927149 759011 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1534927202 843423 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534927203 224335 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1534927383 874909 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534927383 948628 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1534927724 674194 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534927724 743238 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1534927779 676920 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534927779 874022 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1534927824 685827 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534927824 745176 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1534927874 698733 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534927874 847119 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1534927924 999260 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534927925 225352 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1534928070 950735 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534928071 502666 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1534928127 730062 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534928153 578571 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534932837 718243 :bradcomp1!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534933107 673485 :bradcomp1!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534935021 991761 :Shragazord!~quassel@bzq-79-176-84-43.red.bezeqint.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1534935091 964383 :Shragazord!~quassel@bzq-79-176-76-8.red.bezeqint.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534936766 969525 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iuhihnvyahggbdtx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534939341 975466 :bradcomp1!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534939468 967381 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534939614 292625 :bradcomp1!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1534940543 637276 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534941635 803766 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534941636 336278 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1534941914 807324 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534941936 809612 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Taneb> I'm going to try to use it as a computer terminal <-- now you're reminding me of when _i_ was about twelve...
> 1534941963 140077 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:YamTokWae/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57416&oldid=57351 5* 03YamTokWae 5* (+56) 10
< 1534941976 339497 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the difference, I expect, is I have a full time job
< 1534941982 375343 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my dad brought home a printer with modem and phoned a mainframe
< 1534942003 595976 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I can afford all the receipt printer rolls I want
< 1534942011 111075 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY
< 1534942016 915499 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway continue your story
< 1534942044 393353 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you were going to go somewhere different when I started writing my result
< 1534942049 569560 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm my father used to bring home used scrolls of printing paper for me to write on
< 1534942124 140411 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was a printer normally used for logging events at the telecom building
< 1534942135 836368 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they had several of them, iirc
< 1534942167 605724 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, he phoned it up and we tried out Sintran BASIC
< 1534942212 855223 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this was only about the second time i'd used a computer, the first time was when on holiday and someone had an Apple something.
< 1534942228 206035 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :back in approximately 1982
< 1534942264 811813 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd already learned BASIC from reading a book
< 1534942272 226916 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, some BASIC.
< 1534942366 274240 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i wrote some programs on that scratch paper, without a computer :)
< 1534942384 748720 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :complex arithmetic iirc
< 1534942410 515870 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :end of story, i guess
< 1534942449 394663 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1534942473 414476 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534942477 488222 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he got 7000 stars for implementing certificate delivery in BASH https://github.com/Neilpang/acme.sh
< 1534943030 475403 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: Hi!
< 1534943036 189192 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1534943065 116239 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is still appalled by that repo

< 1534943079 697223 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it counts as esoprogramming
< 1534943145 713310 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :full of gems like... if [ -f "$ACCOUNT_CONF_PATH" ]; then . "$ACCOUNT_CONF_PATH" fi
< 1534943158 657393 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(aka configuration file parsing in bash)
< 1534943403 326296 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: Rebooting
< 1534943550 303934 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534944352 865417 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534944648 785014 :G33kDude!~G33kDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric
> 1534944729 629595 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:YamTokWae/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57417&oldid=57416 5* 03YamTokWae 5* (+1883) 10Finally done!
> 1534944875 610422 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pxem14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=57418 5* 03YamTokWae 5* (+6245) 10Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=Pxem |paradigms= |author= |year=[[:Category:2008|2008]] |typesys= |memsys= |dimensions= |class= |refimpl= |majorimpl= |dialects= |influence= |in..."
> 1534944940 640165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57419&oldid=57398 5* 03YamTokWae 5* (+11) 10/* P */ Pxem added!
< 1534945166 309392 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534945343 538450 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534945455 81450 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asimov, or whoever was the editor of the short story "Mother Earth",  has written "an historian" consistently instead of "a historian": "https://archive.org/stream/Astounding_v43n03_1949-05_cape1736#page/n58/mode/1up" . Don't you just love the English language and its uniformity?
> 1534945535 110199 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pxem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57420&oldid=57418 5* 03YamTokWae 5* (+496) 10
< 1534945839 879408 :bradcomp1!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534946120 909284 :bradcomp1!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1534946393 600423 :ep100!~max@105.229.18.254 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534946395 98051 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone reads Tom Siddel’s GC here?
< 1534946422 638435 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later
< 1534946711 460950 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :has written "an historian" consistently instead of "a historian"> interesting. Could it be the case it was pronounced as a[nɪ]storian by him? I seem to hear [h] elides here and there in some cases
< 1534946815 901168 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: there's a very varied amount of initial h-dropping in various English dialect. I've asked about it previously in #esoteric, and some people pronounce initial h in every word, some drop it in lot of words.
< 1534947117 995397 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only drop English initial h in "hour, honest, honesty, honored, honorable" and possibly in "herb, heir, heirloom" (I'm undecided about those rare words)
< 1534947217 862446 :nkuttler28!~nkuttler@187.159.107.27 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534947350 277840 :nkuttler28!~nkuttler@187.159.107.27 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534947697 474373 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pronounce the h in herb but not in heir or heirloom
< 1534947703 331562 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then again I pronounce the b in debt
< 1534947839 561560 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :debt to all traitors
< 1534947950 576499 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: how about all the other h words? "have, he, his, her, here, how, hand, happen, head, hear, hear, help, high, hold, home, house, half, happy, hard, health, heart, hey, himself, history, hit, hope, hour, however, human, hair, handle, hang, hate, heat, heavy, hell, herself, hi, hide, hospital, hot, hotel, huge, hundred, hurt, husband",
< 1534948022 612376 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that an exhaustive list of h words?
< 1534948041 256453 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hall, hardly, healthy, hello, hill, hire, historical, hole, holyday, honest, honey, honor, horse, host, housing, huh, hunt", and most importantly, the original example "historian"
< 1534948050 526870 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: hour is the only one in that first list
< 1534948066 594458 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :honest, honor in the second list
< 1534948073 705547 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pronouce the h in historian
< 1534948089 875363 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In particular I would say "she is a historian", not "she is an historian")
< 1534948141 956648 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it used to be the rule at "an" went before a word beginning with "h" in all cases
< 1534948192 839563 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :further, "ha, habit, harm, hat, heal, heaven, height, helping, hero, highlight, highway, hip, historic, holy, hook, horrible, household, hug, hungry",
< 1534948198 368484 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for reference I'm a native speaker from the north-east of England with one Australian parent)
< 1534948215 73836 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: none of those do I drop the h
< 1534948291 180903 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now we're getting the uncommon ones: "habitat, halfway, hallway, halt, hammer, handsome, harbor, hardware, harmony, harsh, harvest, haul, haunt, headache, headline, headquarter, healthcare, heel, helicopter, helmet, hence, herb, herd, heritage, hesitate, hike, hint, Hispanic, holder, homeland, homework, hop, horizon, hormone, horn, horror, host
< 1534948291 244466 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :age, hostile, humanity, humor, hunter, hurricane, hypothesis"
< 1534948365 165394 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm actually unsure about "heritage" too
< 1534948428 621534 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: right. much of my pronunciation comes from the times when outside of English-speaking countries, language courses teached received pronunciation.
< 1534948456 560313 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pronounce the h in all of that last list as well
< 1534948480 174879 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I don't think of myself having much of a dialect and then I realise that I really do
< 1534948508 500771 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just hear enough not-English people that a lot of English accents sound quite similar to me
< 1534948520 464762 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: with which vowel do you pronounce "can't dance"?
< 1534948612 611596 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the IPA, but a long a, almost "ar" for "can't", and a short a for "dance"
< 1534948658 551046 :andrew_!6d5d707b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.93.112.123 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534948667 479030 :andrew_!6d5d707b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.93.112.123 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1534948693 232628 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you remind me about nine tonight BST, I'll send you a recording
< 1534948699 203870 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(going to the cinema after work)
< 1534948699 542706 :andymclaren!6d5d707b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.93.112.123 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534948723 763620 :andymclaren!6d5d707b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.93.112.123 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1534948766 211866 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: do you pronounce them with the first vowel of "father", or the vowl of "cat", or neither?
< 1534948817 27537 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't and father are similar
< 1534948829 248411 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat and dance are very slightly different?
< 1534948832 43102 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :recording doesn't help much alone, because it's only all the vowels in relation that are important, not the individual realziations
< 1534948859 307087 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange.
< 1534948862 226654 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? can't
< 1534948863 773781 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't is the most frequent word whose pronunciation varies between /ɑː/ and /æ/ depending on dialect. A list is: advance after answer ask aunt brass can't cast castle chance class command dance demand disaster draft enhance example fast glass graph grass half last laugh mask master nasty pass past path plant rather sample shan't staff task vast
< 1534948867 775113 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534948870 273590 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I kind of cut the vowel short in dance but not in cat?
< 1534948924 944871 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that real-world complexity doesn't fit my simple model of English
< 1534948937 168377 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be that darned Higgs-boson or some other symmetry-breaking mechanism
< 1534949051 405771 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Sorry, I'm re-reading Leon Lenderman's popsci book, and he makes it like God created the earliest particles, then someone else who sounds like Morgoth created the Higgs-boson in an attempt to ruin the perfect symmetry of God's creation,
< 1534949125 422598 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then when God asked Morgoth why he did that, Morgoth lied that he only did it to make the world richer, and God knew that while Morgoth thinks it's a lie, it's actually true, because Morgoth could do nothing that He didn't already anticipate, and the Higgs boson actually makes the world complicated but beautiful in a way that nobody but God him
< 1534949125 486152 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :self foresaw,
< 1534949139 255233 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's how the stars and physicists were born.)
< 1534949159 597149 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naturally
< 1534949252 705962 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So now if the physicists are working hard enough to defeat the Higgs-boson, then they will see it, and God lets them see it and the original simple beauty behind it too and how the two together allowed to make nucleuses and stars and physicists to get created.)
< 1534949609 433472 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Some of that is what I'm imagining into the book though, not what Lenderman actually wrote.)
< 1534951568 749642 :bradcomp1!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534951757 149155 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that an exhaustive list of h words? => lol
< 1534951819 109360 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually a representative list from a reputable source
< 1534951832 269025 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :filtered through my noise
< 1534951903 734879 :piklu18!~piklu@186-91-188-118.genericrev.cantv.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534952050 697354 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: that real-world complexity doesn't fit my simple model of English // must be that darned Higgs-boson or some other symmetry-breaking mechanism => IMO it should go to the quotes :D
< 1534952067 47582 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? wisdom
< 1534952068 173675 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and, uh, that other one? It started with, like, an ø?
< 1534952133 990360 :ep100!~max@105.229.18.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have any of you used the Java/Scala parsing library Parboiled? any thoughts?
< 1534952146 357953 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? quote
< 1534952147 412857 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quotes are just elements of the quantum dilapidated bogosphere. See qdb.
< 1534952160 684338 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? qdb
< 1534952162 784416 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :qdb is used like: `quote; `quote regexp; `quote id; `addquote ...; `delquote id; `pastequotes regexp; `pastenquotes [n]; see also quoteformat
< 1534952170 830156 :piklu18!~piklu@186-91-188-118.genericrev.cantv.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534952199 409224 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? addquote 
< 1534952200 462154 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :addquote ? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1534952205 318190 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wah
< 1534952322 163763 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? quoteformat
< 1534952323 261140 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :quoteformat is: <nick> message; * nick action; two spaces between messages; all elisions marked with [...] other than irrelevant intervening messages; for messages separated by elision, one space on each side, not two.
< 1534952368 473055 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm not here, and I can't be trusted with HackEso anyway, but if you're still here and could guide arseniiv in using HackEso, that would be great
< 1534952397 531999 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: basically you can just say `addquote <nick> message  <nick> message
< 1534952416 195006 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but make sure the quote is worthy to keep without context, or rather, that you include exactly the right amount of context
< 1534952444 850375 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an art rather than a science, and I'm not very good at it, although there are some quotes I added, and some I said
< 1534952450 598619 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote <wob_jonas> that real-world complexity doesn't fit my simple model of English  <wob_jonas> must be that darned Higgs-boson or some other symmetry-breaking mechanism
< 1534952452 195946 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1327) <wob_jonas> that real-world complexity doesn't fit my simple model of English  <wob_jonas> must be that darned Higgs-boson or some other symmetry-breaking mechanism
< 1534952466 517684 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I hope I made it right and worthy :)
< 1534952487 749358 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do believe quoting is an art, too, yeah
< 1534952555 459409 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ping
< 1534952556 133243 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong
< 1534952602 909539 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hackeso doesn't reply to my private messages. is this deliberate?
< 1534952606 922543 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` cat bin/allquotes
< 1534952607 607934 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ nl -w 1 -s ') ' quotes
< 1534952654 73765 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, that you include exactly the right amount of context => totally agree. I have seen many quotes in the wild, which were concluded by an author’s reaction. It’s weird and uncomfortable
< 1534952743 916792 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: ftr HackEso responds me to "`quote"
< 1534952754 922810 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` hg log -T "desc\000" quotes
< 1534952756 54503 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.desc.
< 1534952765 467782 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and pongs too
< 1534952778 354281 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` hg log -T "{rev} {desc}\000" quotes
< 1534952779 728900 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :11610 <arseniiv> addquote <wob_jonas> that real-world complexity doesn\'t fit my simple model of English  <wob_jonas> must be that darned Higgs-boson or some other symmetry-breaking mechanism.11589 <oerjan> addquote <wob_jonas> and at least don\'t put Hofstadter next to the time cube guy without at least a semicolon, that\'s insulting Hofstadter.11585 <oerjan> addquote <Aearnus> i\'m sending this from within a computer on minecraft.11580 <alercah> addquote
< 1534952796 608747 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` hg log -T "{rev} {desc}\n" quotes | perl -we ""
< 1534952797 760242 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1534952801 153800 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` hg log -T "{rev} {desc}\n" quotes
< 1534952802 312562 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :11610 <arseniiv> addquote <wob_jonas> that real-world complexity doesn\'t fit my simple model of English  <wob_jonas> must be that darned Higgs-boson or some other symmetry-breaking mechanism \ 11589 <oerjan> addquote <wob_jonas> and at least don\'t put Hofstadter next to the time cube guy without at least a semicolon, that\'s insulting Hofstadter \ 11585 <oerjan> addquote <Aearnus> i\'m sending this from within a computer on minecraft \ 11580 <alercah> ad
< 1534952842 128284 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` hg log -T "{rev} {desc}\n" quotes | grep -Ei "^<[^>]*_jonas[^>]*>"
< 1534952843 418770 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1534952855 378636 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1534952863 806426 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` hg log -T "{rev} {desc}\n" quotes | grep -Ei "^<[^>]*erjan[^>]*>"
< 1534952864 960688 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1534952869 987561 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right
< 1534952878 64173 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` hg log -T "{rev} {desc}\n" quotes | grep -Ei "^[0-9]* <[^>]*erjan[^>]*>"
< 1534952879 198671 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :11589 <oerjan> addquote <wob_jonas> and at least don\'t put Hofstadter next to the time cube guy without at least a semicolon, that\'s insulting Hofstadter \ 11585 <oerjan> addquote <Aearnus> i\'m sending this from within a computer on minecraft \ 11551 <oerjan> addquote <shachaf> Taneb: are you suggesting the Tanebvention joke might be getting slightly old  <Taneb> shachaf, not at all  <Taneb> I would never suggest that it\'s getting slightly old \ 11346 
< 1534952886 918832 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` hg log -T "{rev} {desc}\n" quotes | grep -Ei "^[0-9]* <[^>]*_jonas[^>]*>"
< 1534952888 234007 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :11439 <wob_jonas> addquote <ais523> oh, we also need a Donate effect  <ais523> Harmless Offering is the obvious choice given that we\'ll mostly be donating Hungry Lynxes \ 10204 <b_jonas> addquote <ais523> basically, doing the opposite of Gnome 3 at every opportunity is probably the best way to design a UI \ 9620 <b_jonas> addquote <shachaf> please make a connection between L1, L2, L3 norm and L1, L2, L3 cache twh  <Jafet> shachaf: modern caches actually u
< 1534952910 683284 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1534952922 675636 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` hg log -T "{rev} {desc}\n" quotes | grep -Ei "^[0-9]* <[^>]*_jonas[^>]*>" | tail -n+3
< 1534952923 876137 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :9620 <b_jonas> addquote <shachaf> please make a connection between L1, L2, L3 norm and L1, L2, L3 cache twh  <Jafet> shachaf: modern caches actually use the L\xe2\x88\x9e metric (they can go eight ways) \ 9236 <b_jonas> addquote <ais523> hmm, I just remembered that I was formally trained to tune harps \ 9234 <b_jonas> addquote ais523 hmm, I just remembered that I was formally trained to tune harps
< 1534952952 678598 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEso not trusting me enough to respond in private message is probably a feature, not a bug
< 1534952998 620333 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` hg log -T "{rev} {desc}\n" quotes | grep -Ei "^[0-9]* <[^>]*_jonas[^>]*>" | tail -n+5
< 1534952999 894103 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :9234 <b_jonas> addquote ais523 hmm, I just remembered that I was formally trained to tune harps
< 1534953011 196274 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :after that was when they taught me about `? quoteformat
< 1534953032 694563 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` hg log -c 9235 -T "{rev} {desc}\n" quotes
< 1534953033 739450 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hg log: option -c not recognized \ hg log [OPTION]... [FILE] \  \ show revision history of entire repository or files \  \ options ([+] can be repeated): \  \  -f --follow              follow changeset history, or file history across \                           copies and renames \  -d --date DATE           show revisions matching date spec \  -C --copies              show copied files \  -k --keyword TEXT [+]    do case-insensitive search for a given text
< 1534953057 779047 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` hg log -r 9235 -T "{rev} {desc}\n" quotes
< 1534953058 904382 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :9235 <ais523> delquote 1291
< 1534953067 991148 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, -c would be the correct option for svn
< 1534953218 106098 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote L3 norm
< 1534953218 812813 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1295) <shachaf> please make a connection between L1, L2, L3 norm and L1, L2, L3 cache twh  <Jafet> shachaf: modern caches actually use the L∞ metric (they can go eight ways)
< 1534953232 151789 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote _jonas
< 1534953232 942254 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1200) <b_jonas> oerjan: the original purpose was to make a language in which I write ugly source code, and it's compiled to readable standard ml and readable prolog code; but I sort of ran out of time and the readable part got dropped so now the compiled code is even more ugly than the original  \ 1221) <b_jonas> fungot, do you like running double exponential time algorithms?  <fungot> b_jonas: im not sure \ 1266) <b_jonas> shachaf: different notation. -o 
< 1534953258 192686 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` quote _jonas | tail -n+2
< 1534953259 20813 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1221) <b_jonas> fungot, do you like running double exponential time algorithms?  <fungot> b_jonas: im not sure \ 1266) <b_jonas> shachaf: different notation. -o is logical or in find, but it's linear implication in linear logic \ 1269) <b_jonas> (make is an esoteric language)  <prooftechnique> b_jonas: Most esolangs I've seen have more comprehensive docs than make \ 1273) <b_jonas> boily: sorry for the boring wisdom entries I added. I mostly did it hoping 
< 1534953302 431762 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` quote _jonas | tail -n+5
< 1534953303 524360 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1273) <b_jonas> boily: sorry for the boring wisdom entries I added. I mostly did it hoping that someone will stumble on them and replace them with something better. \ 1318) <ais523> b_jonas: hmm, it's fairly surprising that you can make a coherent esolang whose primary feature is that it wasn't written by Donald Knuth \ 1326) <wob_jonas> and at least don't put Hofstadter next to the time cube guy without at least a semicolon, that's insulting Hofstadter \ 
< 1534953316 878295 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` quote _jonas | tail -n+7
< 1534953317 677541 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1326) <wob_jonas> and at least don't put Hofstadter next to the time cube guy without at least a semicolon, that's insulting Hofstadter \ 1327) <wob_jonas> that real-world complexity doesn't fit my simple model of English  <wob_jonas> must be that darned Higgs-boson or some other symmetry-breaking mechanism
< 1534953362 781041 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in more wisdom entries than how many I added. is that good or bad?
< 1534953365 57655 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1534953384 983120 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-erfurcygkxauhwgj QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1534953433 217696 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1318 wut??
< 1534953505 32732 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in more wisdom entries than how many I added. is that good or bad? => maybe not
< 1534953764 643567 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean it could be incomparable to both)
< 1534954109 885643 :bradcomp1!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2
< 1534954126 692390 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534954828 450452 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1534956158 483839 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1534956327 320052 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534957643 745416 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534957702 519469 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose I wanted to create my own alphabet, using invented characters that don't exist in standard fonts (I'm thinking of making a conlang-inspired esolang and there are good reasons for it to need an alphabet of its own)
< 1534957734 309909 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would be the best way to write documents using this language? one idea I'm thinking of is to create a font but I don't know how that's done nowadays
< 1534957764 509858 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably the characters would be in a private-use area somewher?
< 1534957766 677207 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*somewhere
< 1534958192 424623 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you maybe just fork an Open Source font to get a template, and then just completely rework the typeface to be what you want?
< 1534958241 528021 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure
< 1534958250 194341 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the characters in this are intentionally very simple and line-segmenty, though
< 1534958254 615019 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think I'd want something much simpler than most fonts
< 1534958266 470512 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that might be overkill
< 1534958273 627960 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a simple vector font would likely be enough, no hinting (perhaps it'd benefit from some kerning)
< 1534958343 299750 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for font creation I suppose you could use something like glyphr studio, last time I seen it was JS-based HTML thingie and it was able to export to some of usual font formats
< 1534958362 414578 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have it installed but I haven’t played with it
< 1534958377 928094 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses Unicode as an encoding
< 1534958395 108203 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, "JS-based HTML thingie" seems fairly discouraging, but I guess it might be usable
< 1534958399 22562 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv that looks really cool!
< 1534958416 162607 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: bradcomp: it should be able to do kerning AFAIR
< 1534958450 82540 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also Inkscape can create SVG fonts but I think its UI for it is way messier
< 1534958537 810794 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"up to U+FFFF", ugh, that could be a bit of a problem; the private use area is getting fairly crowded already
< 1534958575 771260 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know which bits won't clash with other peoples' little-used languages
< 1534958703 853386 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not make a standard latinization of your conlang and use characters from that to represent characters of an actual conscript in the font? Ligatures should make for conscript’s interesting traits like custom diactiric behavior, vowel carriers and like
< 1534958725 33916 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1534958725 33986 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1534958725 34003 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1534958726 513201 :puck!~puck@puckipedia.com QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1534958726 631305 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1534958726 715500 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1534958727 972005 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1534958730 294617 :clog_!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534958730 713334 :brandons1n!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534958742 86210 :erdic!~erdic@81.4.123.134 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534958764 601540 :erdic!~erdic@81.4.123.134 QUIT :Changing host
< 1534958764 601584 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534958778 193218 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then if one uses this special font, it looks nice, and if one uses an unaware font, it is magically a transcription
< 1534958833 155938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: well one feature of this is that it doesn't really correspond to English in any real way
< 1534958846 245915 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more of a syllabary than an alphabet, come to think of it, although it's not quite the same as that either
< 1534958874 282460 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could replace characters from an /actual/ syllabary, assuming it was large enough
< 1534959165 327299 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use font ligatures to make e. g. gu gi ga gen ger tu ti ta correspond to separate glyphs than glyphs for g, t, u, i etc.
< 1534959175 358213 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1534959198 494527 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope ligaturing in fonts is advanced enough
< 1534959210 914604 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn’t investigate
< 1534959233 687269 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway good luck!
< 1534959292 845439 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't work on it right now
< 1534959302 653674 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534959305 962816 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't considering a pronunciation for it up to this point
< 1534959309 754466 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I guess having one might be useful
< 1534959320 500382 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the original concept was entirely as a written language
< 1534959324 537712 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might as well try to pronounce brainfuck
< 1534959346 965217 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, there surely must be a brainfuck derivative intended to be pronounceable, there's a brainfuck derivative for basically everything
< 1534959716 701751 :sparr!~sparr@2604:a880:800:10::103:f001 QUIT :Changing host
< 1534959716 767966 :sparr!~sparr@pdpc/supporter/active/sparr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534959804 294040 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcb1dmnmcpyztw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534959943 68214 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the original concept was entirely as a written language => ah I see. If there would be less than ~30 glyphs, it could have been passed for a consonantal alphabet, but as you’ve said it’s meant to be a syllabary, then it probably has much more
< 1534959961 106950 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's a sort of compositional syllabary
< 1534959983 94930 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :each character has two components that are orthogonal to each other
< 1534959993 907386 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :treating it as a spoken language, I guess you'd interpret that as consonant/vowel
< 1534960039 18546 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like abugida https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abugida then
< 1534960067 759128 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I think an abugida is the right term
< 1534960501 213763 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534960552 959677 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a QUIT :Changing host
< 1534960552 959715 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534961350 873568 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iuhihnvyahggbdtx QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1534962347 345370 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PART :#esoteric
< 1534962884 465504 :oren!cebf7d05@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.191.125.5 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534963048 819460 :oren!cebf7d05@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.191.125.5 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1534963146 143919 :brandons1n!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534963216 544099 :\oren\!cebf7d05@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.191.125.5 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534963315 45358 :Effilry!znc@freenode/staff/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534963351 659858 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534963424 743918 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.34 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534963435 797540 :Effilry!znc@freenode/staff/firefly NICK :FireFly
< 1534963442 417825 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.34 QUIT :Changing host
< 1534963442 417866 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534963478 445544 :\oren\!cebf7d05@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.191.125.5 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1534963482 787223 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nkzwtoqiaoqfwown JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534963553 658149 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534963854 653021 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1534966186 196733 :jusWindTwo!~SoacraTa@86.122.82.223 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534966226 75839 :jusWindTwo!~SoacraTa@86.122.82.223 PART :#esoteric
< 1534967162 111849 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534967576 964000 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534967642 699072 :Toppogiggio!~Toppogigg@95.215.44.147 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534969575 470175 :puckipedia!~puck@puckipedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534970809 665574 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534970916 725354 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534971057 727324 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534971200 215488 :oren!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534971211 696737 :oren!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is freenode so buggy lately
< 1534971230 897507 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1534971269 475336 :oren!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: today SASL was timing out every time for several hours
< 1534971283 603566 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're probably making a lot of code changes while trying to fend off the spambot attack
< 1534971288 616587 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We are experiencing issues with services and SASL. If you can't connect, try to temporarily disable SASL"
< 1534971300 156405 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: that's from the topic in #freenode *shrugs*
< 1534971361 567944 :oren!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com NICK :\oren\
< 1534971419 529003 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: you can't connect from AWS to freenode without SASL tho
< 1534971492 171100 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see
< 1534971690 733439 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-taptyjxsjmvgvadl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534972647 243909 :MDead!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534972879 181361 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534972947 673582 :MDead!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534973044 288417 :puckipedia!~puck@puckipedia.com NICK :puck
< 1534973286 645367 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1534973962 266013 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534974446 14430 :ep100!~max@105.229.18.254 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1534974811 963216 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534974835 325591 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523!
< 1534974839 168668 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good to see you. let me read the log
< 1534974888 917069 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess what, arseniiv added me into the hackeso quotesdb. he's growing up to become a full #esoteric regular, and hopefully one who can be more trusted with hackeso than I can be.
< 1534974896 579265 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`datei
< 1534974897 157759 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2018-08-22 21:54:56.893904170+00:00
< 1534974949 538583 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good. in the afternoon, for some reason hackeso wouldn't reply to my private messages. I decided it was a feature, because I can't be trusted. but now he does answer private messages
< 1534975027 666269 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"suppose I wanted to create my own alphabet, using invented characters that don't exist in standard fonts" => you should look at http://www.omniglot.com/ , and the "Constructed scripts" heading in particular. admittedly, that's a rather biased personal selection by the omniglot website maintainer, but still.
< 1534975033 10473 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :conlangers sometimes do that.
< 1534975070 483983 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have two completely undocumented alphabets I have created, and some attempts to map writing Hungarian or English into them.
< 1534975100 668529 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"what would be the best way to write documents using this language? one idea I'm thinking of is to create a font but I don't know how that's done nowadays" => paper and pencil at first. the font part is difficult indeed.
< 1534975266 272714 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it's more of a syllabary than an alphabet" => oh yes, there are a few of those too. like the set of 306 syllable symbols in https://bendwavy.org/wp/?p=1986 , with no writing system for any language mapping to it yet.
< 1534975389 625971 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the constructed alphabets are created are more intended to be used as traditional alphabets, not sylabillaries, although one of them also has an extended version that could be used for some APL-like notation with over 256 possible symbols combined from a somewhat simple traditional system of backspacing and overprinting one of the few modifiers ont
< 1534975389 797821 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :o a symbol.
< 1534975510 338231 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically I have a set of 30 base letters, with a canon assignment of 26 of them to the 26 ascii letters for when you want a strict transliteration, but you don't have to do that, you can use other writing systems more suitable for specific languages,
< 1534975513 560043 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1534975533 195588 :Toppogiggio!~Toppogigg@95.215.44.147 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1534975596 906123 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then 6 additional modifiers (diacritics: dot over, short horizontal bar under, dot under, short horizontal bar over, long horizontal bar in the middle, vertical bar) that you each can overprint to each base letter, although to make it look nice you have to shift them a bit depending on which letter you put them onto;
< 1534975691 167458 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I also have 16 digits, with a canonical assignment to the hexadecimal digits, but which you can also combine with one of the five allowed modifiers (dot over, short horizontal bar under, dot under, short horizontal bar over, vertical bar; but NOT horizontal bar) to get extra symbols for maths or programming or even writing;
< 1534975727 663676 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534975792 180025 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1534975796 662080 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus also space (which is just the ascii "halfwidth" space used in latin script); plus 16 punctuation symbols, each of which you can combine with one of the six modifiers, but some combinations are banned because they'd either look ambiguous or very ugly; and possibly a few extra symbols that I've been experimenting with to perturb the system but t
< 1534975796 829837 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hat probably shouldn't exist.
< 1534975890 870680 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 16 punctuation symbols are: period, comma, left round parenthesis, right round parenthesis, less than, greater than, vee, wedge, minus, vertical bar, slash, backslash, equals, plus, cross, eight-pointed star (a plus and a cross overlaid with their centers exactly at the same place).
< 1534975940 714577 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vertical bar with the vertical bar modifier is one of the banned combinations, dot with the dot above modifier is an allowed combination and is basically a colon, comma with dot above is basically a semicolon,
< 1534975978 809326 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of dot with middle bar modifier and minus with dot under must be a banned combination, but I haven't completely fixed the list of banned combinations, although I do have some draft versions of it.
< 1534976154 294821 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcb1dmnmcpyztw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1534976201 740991 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is one of the two scripts I'm trying to invent. The other is much simpler, with only 32 symbols of which 16 are base letters and 16 have variable use, plus some modifiers that are used only as shorthand, plus a writing system for Hungarian.
< 1534976219 227235 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534976225 897053 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The big one actually stole the set of digits from the 16 base letters of the other.
< 1534976271 612782 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't fixed a canonical alphabetic order for any of them yet, except obviously for the 16 digits in the bigger script.
< 1534976541 802715 :Esqapezord!~quassel@bzq-79-182-74-248.red.bezeqint.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534976570 423637 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1534976579 993333 :Shragazord!~quassel@bzq-79-176-76-8.red.bezeqint.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1534977833 705556 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: and hopefully one who can be more trusted with hackeso than I can be => nope, it’s too complex :o
< 1534977872 203461 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: that's not why I can't be trusted
< 1534978048 780151 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534978244 651482 :Shragazord!~quassel@bzq-109-64-14-142.red.bezeqint.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534978362 664546 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1534978420 912301 :Esqapezord!~quassel@bzq-79-182-74-248.red.bezeqint.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1534979145 267823 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534979433 929793 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: hm
< 1534979477 48154 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well anyway I’m not going to dive in its self-editing capabilities
< 1534979514 809544 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or hopefully there’s a backup somewhere
< 1534979606 472741 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's on top of a (D)VCS, it's easy to revert to a previous state.
< 1534979622 849155 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Except for the /hackenv/tmp directory.)
< 1534979666 933546 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/
< 1534979682 73235 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, generally. there are some practical difficulties, but they rarely come up.
< 1534979738 784025 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534979775 167616 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1534980725 451877 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534980820 167500 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: here's a quickly scribbled explanation of the conscripts I'm trying to create: https://i.stack.imgur.com/Tv6YC.png
< 1534980885 653882 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-76-126-180-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534980885 653939 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-76-126-180-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Client Quit
< 1534980902 765354 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1534980914 871186 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess what I'm doing is basically what APL did
< 1534980952 91891 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: um, have you read my previous messages on the channel by the way?
< 1534980959 632746 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, during while you were apparently joined
< 1534980969 265973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: yes, just didn't have much to say
< 1534980983 179245 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534980985 390574 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1534980990 86413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you created the alphabet first and then tried to find a use for it
< 1534980991 805219 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1534981056 266395 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think I created the 5-segment display and digits first, then extended it to hex digits, and drew it in the parenthesis style I used in the bottom, then created the Hungarian writing system for it;
< 1534981109 86505 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then later I tried to create some other conscript that failed, and then I tried to create the alphabet that would eventually become the base alphabet on the top, only it was larger and more complicated,
< 1534981166 312856 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I added the digits and the punctuation, but because of the parens in the punctutation, I decided to change the shape of the 1 and C digits to C-shaped, and some time in the meanwhile I experimented with systems of diacritics and eventually came up with this one,
< 1534981193 349374 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and decided that since it's more than 256 symbols, and has lots of modified letters and modified punctuation, it's usable enough for an APL
< 1534981247 754313 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, for an APL you really want the symbols to match what the command does more or less exactly
< 1534981264 802002 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why you need to create new ones if you're adding new commands
< 1534981271 75811 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :J uses two common diacritics on both lower and uppercase ascii letters and ascii punctuation and ascii digits, but since I don't have uppercase digits and have half the number of punctuation, but have it balanced by more diacritics, the symbol set looks APL-like enough for me
< 1534981294 24607 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should macros be syntactically distinct from regular function calls?
< 1534981309 274854 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a good way to make the distinction? Rust uses ! but that seems too noisy to me.
< 1534981315 979182 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of... but after a while the symbol set for APL more or less froze, and
< 1534981319 38744 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: IMO it depends on whether the macro can do things a regular function call can't
< 1534981333 364787 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's why it's a macro, right?
< 1534981348 1800 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C uses allcaps for macros (as a convention), which brings the point across quite well… /except/ that it uses lowercase, as with regular functions, if the macro isn't doing anything weird that you need to pay attention to
< 1534981361 448796 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: "." instead "!" ?
< 1534981365 225410 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Allcaps also seems too noisy to me.
< 1534981371 739066 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a macro should look like a control flow construct, really
< 1534981372 498580 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine IF, WHILE, etc. as macros.
< 1534981402 834562 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a Perl-like syntax, something like barewords (no sigil) for macros, leading & for functions, would be consistent with the rest of the language
< 1534981411 993353 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Perl dropped that, despite the inconsistency, probably because it was too noisy
< 1534981435 813529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps the rule should be something like "macros use parens around their arguments, functions don't"
< 1534981444 206418 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another question: Is there a language that distinguishes lvalues from rvalues explicitly rather than automatically allowing lvalues in rvalue context?
< 1534981451 632504 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would that be too noisy?
< 1534981473 151651 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Hm, maybe.
< 1534981473 241728 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: most mathematical formalisations of language do, and the syntax has leaked into some of them, such as OCaml
< 1534981480 233352 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :usual syntax is ! for lvalue-to-rvalue conversion
< 1534981489 872581 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, SML or OCaml or something has refs which are similar.
< 1534981494 234555 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so to increment x in OCaml, you write «x := !x + 1»
< 1534981502 445366 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm imagining a C-like language where I think it would be noisier in general?
< 1534981512 863745 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only because you mutate more in general
< 1534981527 912576 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1534981534 448252 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... ruby has a strange idea of lvalues. it mostly doesn't have them, instead it has indexed-assignment and method-assignment as ordinary methods with funny names, and like ten special case syntaxes that assign to different variables
< 1534981540 570345 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Algol's weird in that it has a very fixed distinction between lvalues and rvalues but conversions like lvalue-to-rvalue and pointer dereferencing are implicit, guided by the type system
< 1534981547 180907 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe C's * operator is already similar to this.
< 1534981563 496898 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to perl, which has real lvalues.
< 1534981572 901408 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or C++, which also has real lvalues
< 1534981573 73575 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C's & operator is an abberation caused by the fact that * is normally implicit
< 1534981581 742883 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except on the LHS of an assignment
< 1534981587 578382 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need an & to turn it off
< 1534981591 381387 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm undecided about references in C++.
< 1534981597 832421 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"int &x = y;" doesn't seem that great.
< 1534981612 934720 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But "int &operator[](...)" seems OK?
< 1534981635 78831 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'm OK with functions returning references but not taking them as arguments.
< 1534981674 683961 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1534981677 608167 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: in Algol, /all/ "variable names" are constants; thus "int ref x = y" would create a constant integer reference x pointing to the same thing as the constant integer reference y
< 1534981685 692565 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, it's too late and I have to sleep, but we can discuss that some time later. I like C++, including the references part, but it's complicated to explain why.
< 1534981712 571623 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I also don't think that every language necessarily needs lvalues.
< 1534981719 175808 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have a fine language without lvalues.
< 1534981739 987276 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas "int x := y" is shorthand for "int ref x = «whatever the syntax for allocating memory is in Algol; I've forgotten»; x := y", which creates a constant integer reference x pointing to new memory, then copies the value pointed to by y into it
< 1534981764 864345 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that stack-allocated memory or something similar?
< 1534981797 673714 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that sounds scary
< 1534981830 2017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think there's different syntax for stack and heap allocation
< 1534981850 493556 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's "loc int" for allocating int-sized memory on the stack, I just remembered the syntax
< 1534981989 818603 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the shorthand is very convenient (and probably inspired C's declaration syntax), but unlike the rest of the language, really hides what's going on
< 1534982044 482366 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you mean auto declarations in C?
< 1534982055 253530 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1534982057 566260 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The kinds of macros I'm talking about take not just their "arguments" but also the rest of the block.
< 1534982078 676498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: like the ? we were discussing earlier?
< 1534982084 395374 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to global variable declarations or definitions
< 1534982087 74196 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which ? is that?
< 1534982092 298742 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, your monadish thing.
< 1534982094 933411 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1534982106 308701 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think what I have in mind is a bit more syntactic but I'm actually not sure.
< 1534982119 815862 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to make it less macro-y but I don't know how doable that is.
< 1534982137 494356 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You remember, this is for the language idea where all the control flow constructs work like this.
< 1534982143 372183 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ if(p); ... } and so on.
< 1534982145 853360 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1534982161 62492 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there definitely seems to be a connection between control flow constructs and macros
< 1534982172 881827 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like these to be as expression-like as possible, though.
< 1534982186 833885 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe something like { x := for(for(a)); ... } can make sense for a nested loop.
< 1534982202 724589 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which would mean { y := for(a); x := for(y); ... }
< 1534982217 446481 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this sense what they really take as an argument is more like a continuation.
< 1534982241 34485 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe what we want is syntax for making a continuation out of the rest of the block
< 1534982259 597952 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ x := f(for(a), for(b)); ... }?
< 1534982268 333942 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which probably implies a parens-not-required syntax for function calls
< 1534982276 883191 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This would impose an evaluation order probably. Which monads etc. need to do anyway.
< 1534982283 254408 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "rest of the block" would be defined in terms of evaluation orders, so your for(a), for(b) would work just fine
< 1534982295 421779 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do need an explicit evaluation order, as your last example shows
< 1534982306 102996 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which could be "unspecified" but probably shouldn't be)
< 1534982309 210831 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1534982317 922324 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is all very SSA-y.
< 1534982322 647723 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1534982367 504131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't continuations just the control flow version of SSA?
< 1534982374 351984 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're very similar at least.
< 1534982389 893806 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes, my last statement is probably an overstatement but there seems to be something of a connection
< 1534982399 952362 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there's clearly a connection.
< 1534982425 829618 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ x:= f(for(a)?, for(b)?); … } unifies your syntax and mine
< 1534982429 567655 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, is there a reason many languages support multiple arguments rather than just supporting tuple arguments?
< 1534982440 328802 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What is for() in this context?
< 1534982459 893546 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it returns a List monad action
< 1534982474 931626 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then ? will convert that into a map operation over the rest of the block on the returned list
< 1534982489 757476 :wob_jonas!b03f186f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.111 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1534982494 286496 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, can you guarantee that that compiles to efficient code?
< 1534982508 409649 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want heap allocations or laziness or anything like that.
< 1534982513 336978 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a loop.
< 1534982535 102251 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, a List monad action doesn't need to be an actual list
< 1534982551 109652 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. I guess I don't know how your monads are represented.
< 1534982556 179874 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the only things you can /do/ with it are flatten and map, both of which can be implemented in compressed form
< 1534982573 744269 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general, a monad action is basically just a <flatten, map> tuple
< 1534982578 297075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where flatten and map are functions
< 1534982595 723793 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it probably has extra metadata so that it knows how to flatten other instances of itself
< 1534982618 282585 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess this is easier with rust definitions, it's something which has a trait that allows it to be flattened and mapped
< 1534982649 654566 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about { while(p); ... }?
< 1534982650 893433 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :flatten for iterators is basically just "do the first iterator, then the second, then the third…"
< 1534982654 133944 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :map for iterators is obvious
< 1534982656 754391 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here p needs to be re-evaluated on each iteration.
< 1534982671 658987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't work where p is eager, so it would need to be lazy
< 1534982685 36310 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it works if you can do a goto to the beginning.
< 1534982724 948943 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ while(p); ... } --> { @loop; if(p); { ... }; repeat @loop; }
< 1534982742 923907 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :laziness is a monad too, so I guess you could just say "while takes an action as argument", but { while(lazy {p}) } is pretty ugly syntax
< 1534982748 351105 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where @ is a syntax for naming a block, or a label. And repeat is just a restricted goto.
< 1534982764 982564 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if goto only goes backwards then it's more like a break
< 1534982777 989193 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :break goes forward
< 1534982790 283664 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if we're using an evaluation order model, p gets evaluated before while, so while can't place a label before the evaulation of p
< 1534982803 101614 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless we use a different evaluation order in which the function is evaluated before its arguments, I guess
< 1534982816 942095 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then it'd look like while()(p) unless we were using unusual syntax
< 1534982821 617686 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I think this was just one of the things I was allowing these constructs to do?
< 1534982846 357017 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They get a label pointing to the block they're at the beginning of.
< 1534982861 722149 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, thinking about it, break can't be implemented like this because we can't escape from blocks other than the nested block we're in
< 1534982872 302079 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so your idea is a bit more general, mostly because it has continuations
< 1534982882 810960 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the other thing I have is break from any block.
< 1534982904 894959 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :break-with-value from any block, even. Which is such a useful feature I'm surprised no language has it.
< 1534982932 789964 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This kind of early exit means that you can't really use lambdas.
< 1534982980 418660 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :return is also just a special case of this.
< 1534983036 868513 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mentioned the other day that I figured out what break and continue are.
< 1534983039 869337 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :break-with-value from any block is basically what you get when each block does an implicit call/cc (as you can use the continuation to send the value back)
< 1534983052 950951 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, "no language has it" is wrong, you can do it just fine in INTERCAL
< 1534983055 132318 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's not arbitrary continuations.
< 1534983074 561686 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although this is because return values in INTERCAL are just global variables, so you can write to them, and then do a RESUME #10 or whatever
< 1534983079 734970 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's effectively a static stack of blocks at any point.
< 1534983088 719383 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stack-allocated continuations
< 1534983093 615501 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can break from any of them, up to the outermost block (which is going to be a function call frame).
< 1534983135 218984 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have "cleanup" like RAII destructors or defer, early exit can know to run them, as well.
< 1534983136 377047 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why don't you break out of that into the black lagoon?
< 1534983157 896475 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm missing a reference.
< 1534983176 149287 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catb.org/esr/intercal/ick.htm#E123
< 1534983185 132409 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's the wrong direction, stack overflow not underflow
< 1534983196 328698 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one's underflow: http://catb.org/esr/intercal/ick.htm#E632
< 1534983198 46507 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1534983278 573046 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, when you have a loop, { @outer; loop; @inner; ... }, "break" means "end @outer" and "continue" means "end @inner"
< 1534983298 527125 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess "continuations on the stack" is a good model for this
< 1534983312 409256 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, that's how function calls work too
< 1534983334 510259 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was about to say "is it possible to construct a model in which loops and function calls are the same thing" and then realised it was just tail-recursion
< 1534983335 475822 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python's "for x in xs: A else: B" means: { @outer { x := for(xs); @inner; A; } B; }
< 1534983357 437608 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't that run B regardless?
< 1534983366 135548 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not if you "end @outer"
< 1534983371 174744 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah no, if you break out of outer
< 1534983391 712805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"else" is a bizarre keyword for that, though; "if you don't break" is not what I think of as "else"
< 1534983398 442087 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, it seems backwards to me.
< 1534983444 571210 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oddly, it would fit the meaning of the English word "finally" quite well, but the "finally" control flow operation is /also/ different from that!
< 1534983469 530721 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps "then" would work best, but it likely isn't a keyword in Python
< 1534983553 837901 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, completely unrelated question related to an esointerpreter I'm writing: is it possible/sane to use a single SQL-relational-database index for both "return all X with a specific Y" and "return all X with a specific Y and specific Z", where Z is a boolean?
< 1534983554 526549 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the implication is that you break in the successful case.
< 1534983577 751907 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :E.g. "for x in xs: if x == y: break else: ..."
< 1534983585 692240 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Where the else is associated with the for, not the if.)
< 1534983593 297755 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my understanding of how SQL indexes work is that an index (X, Z, Y) would work only if, in the first case, we used a range query on the boolean specifying that it must be between false and true
< 1534983597 468861 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :inclusive
< 1534983610 257061 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that seems ridiculous, so I suspect there's a flaw in my understanding somehow
< 1534983662 482020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, I mean (Y, Z, X), and now I think about it, an SQL engine will get that right for both queries
< 1534983675 905094 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I got the question wrong
< 1534983694 137432 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :never mind, I'm too tired to phrase the question correctly right now
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< 1534983886 67425 :Waggie21!~Waggie@41.202.166.44 QUIT :K-Lined
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< 1534984596 714476 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I found the answer for SQLite in the SQLite docs, there's something called "skip-scan" that can do this sort of conversion automatically, but it only does so if it knows that the column contains lots of booleans
< 1534984601 258438 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, lots of duplicates
< 1534984629 522569 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which it really should for a boolean coulmn, but SQLite's handling of types is utterly insane, so it can't do that automatically without an ANALYZE run to prove it
< 1534984768 431310 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess my conclusion for the question I meant to ask, even though I haven't figured out what it is yet, is "doing the optimization manually makes sense because it informs the engine that our booleans will only be false or true"
< 1534985304 455172 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1534986015 294423 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534986099 255459 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently in a C64 compatible MMO
< 1534986121 911638 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, the only existent client is for C64, so I guess more than just compatible)
< 1534986170 147679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can a game count as "massively multiplayer" if it only runs on a platform that a non-massive number of people own?
< 1534986275 445920 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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< 1534986704 496739 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (p)
< 1534986710 350325 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ stmt;
< 1534986712 351371 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :  stmt;
< 1534986712 830224 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :}
< 1534986719 985080 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a p. good indentation style.
< 1534987029 294157 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1534987307 767389 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does run in C64 emulators. I wonder if that makes my statement "Well, the only existent client is for C64" technically inaccurate
< 1534987322 975979 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you consider emulator+C64 client to itself be a client
< 1534987370 990218 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'd expect that style to have the } at the end of the previous line
< 1534987394 170453 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, now I'm reminded of an indentation style I used for Lua once
< 1534987407 496314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used four-space indentation, but multiple consecutive "end"s were placed on the same line
< 1534987420 549599 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this helped readability when you have 8-10 nested for loops
< 1534987641 151749 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the inspiration for this is the style
< 1534987643 415063 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ if(p);
< 1534987646 90604 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :  ...
< 1534987646 785469 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :}
< 1534987671 720314 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is meant to be similar to the same thing but with "if(p) {" on the first line.
< 1534987690 551257 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I kind of like having the first statement of a block on the same line as the {
< 1534987742 553390 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This depends on two-space indentation to be very natural, though.
< 1534987752 70568 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you'd at least want to stack } because that style would naturally stack nested {
< 1534987758 101415 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ { stmt;
< 1534987760 299831 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :    stmt;
< 1534987761 661327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :} }
< 1534987773 829932 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that there's much purpose to nesting bare blocks in most languages, but…
< 1534987812 340889 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it can be occasionally useful in Perl; do{{}} is not equivalent to do{} because the latter doesn't generate break/continue points and the former does)
< 1534987829 78259 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's generally true in languages with blocks that { a; b; c; } means the same thing as { a; { b; { c; } } }, right?
< 1534987843 103351 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in Perl apparently!
< 1534987851 457327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in most but not quite all, I think the latter is different in Perl 6 even without break/continue
< 1534988047 759475 :pskosinski1!~pskosinsk@pl10330.ag5354.nttpc.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534988270 422199 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534988278 446334 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534988285 661858 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: in Perl 6, { my $c = $^a; $^b + $c } takes two arguments, whereas { my $c = $^a; {$^b + $c} } takes one argument and appears to cause a type error if you call it
< 1534988287 435084 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd /expected/ it to be a curried version of the first block
< 1534988292 178562 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523
< 1534988300 498470 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, I'm cheating by using implicit argument syntax here
< 1534988315 167344 :pskosinski1!~pskosinsk@pl10330.ag5354.nttpc.ne.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1534988402 476069 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Perl 6 have a notion of block arguments?
< 1534988409 569174 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or block values?
< 1534988500 958247 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1534988509 443808 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! perl6 "test".say
< 1534988510 88849 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/!: 4: exec: ibin/perl6: not found
< 1534988515 914997 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, was hoping I could use HackEso for this
< 1534988519 860246 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` perl6 --version
< 1534988520 588677 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/`: line 5: perl6: command not found
< 1534988572 604396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I think blocks have to be run explicitly to get at their values; if you try to use them in expression context they turn lazy
< 1534988597 768263 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ perl6 -e '-> $a {$a+1}.(3).say'
< 1534988599 158422 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :4
< 1534988605 647477 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, the more I use Perl 6 the less I like it
< 1534988739 209932 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534989009 968608 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
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< 1534991378 244045 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-fflzrzargfwxwlcr QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1534991380 664851 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi QUIT :*.net *.split
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< 1534991637 877041 :fractal!~fractal@unaffiliated/scounder QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534991782 452103 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1534991801 911913 :paul2520!~paul2520@paulkaefer.com QUIT :Changing host
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< 1534992348 617086 :shikhin_!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin
< 1534992542 646706 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1534993170 420434 :fractal!~fractal@unaffiliated/scounder JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534993462 233483 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1534994034 629241 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit
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< 1534994727 674079 :johnlage17!~johnlage@211.231.71.151 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534996977 733108 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1534999287 688811 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1534999797 678480 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535000067 683789 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1535002762 369073 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1535002778 694281 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535003269 187673 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535005213 328535 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nkzwtoqiaoqfwown QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1535006217 207631 :Esqapezord!~quassel@bzq-79-176-36-102.red.bezeqint.net QUIT :Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.
< 1535007035 229514 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1535009277 773238 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcb1dmnmcpyztw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535009415 649999 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
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< 1535011934 303872 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1535012316 297380 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535012820 311295 :simon_-_17!~simon_-_@118.69.10.119 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535013294 226284 :simon_-_17!~simon_-_@118.69.10.119 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1535013857 866112 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535013863 172378 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Read error: No route to host
< 1535013894 214797 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535014042 706948 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: about that {if(x);stmt} thing, I know it's not very relevant, but I had pointed you to https://esolangs.org/wiki/Geo right? it has some similar syntax for conditionals and loops.
< 1535014050 166157 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no macros or anything
< 1535014055 453944 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally it should have ordinary functions
< 1535014254 781167 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks pretty different?
< 1535014258 468141 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember seeing it before.
< 1535014268 507892 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and perhaps it should be extended to support labelled loops and labelled breaks
< 1535014283 232978 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535014414 909188 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it has a syntax that allows you to have statements that conditionally break out of the innermost block, returning a value from that block, since every block can be used as an expression and can have value the value. the condition and return value themselves can be blocks if you want.
< 1535014424 12695 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and blocks can be normal or infinitely looping.
< 1535014434 655776 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should invent + implement my language for me.
< 1535014448 524810 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I thought of it I constantly see places where I wish I had these constructs.
< 1535014451 180045 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if(x); would translate to x!; in geo
< 1535014481 35376 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, your blocks are explicit, it looks like?
< 1535014496 493508 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So (a; b; c) is different from (a; (b; c))
< 1535014498 70626 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :{if(x);stmt1;stmt2;} is written like (x!;stmt1;stmt2;) in geo
< 1535014519 677907 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is {stmt1; if(x); stmt2;} written?
< 1535014525 703544 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :{while(x);stmt1;stmt2;} is written like (x!;stmt1;stmt2;*)
< 1535014541 818723 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :{stmt1;if(x);stmt2;} is written as (stmt1;x!;stmt2;)
< 1535014547 240400 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ! is just a negated ? by the way
< 1535014571 193224 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so {if(!x);stmt1;} translates to (x?;stmt1;)
< 1535014582 968674 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :provided that ! negates a boolean in your language
< 1535014586 210680 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1535014613 881543 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and C's do{stmt1;stmt2;}while(x) translates to (stmt1;stmt1;x!;*) in geo
< 1535014736 645697 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there would be a straightforward translation from geo to rust control structures: (stmt1;stmt2;expr) translates to {stmt1;stmt2;expr} , (stmt1;stmt2;*) trnaslates to loop{stmt1;stmt2;} , cond?expr translates to if !cond {break expr} , and cond!expr translates to if cond {break expr}
< 1535014766 885348 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Wait, is it?
< 1535014770 219999 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only geo is dynamically typed and rust is strongly typed, so the builtin array manipulation and arithmetic in geo might be a bit tricky to translate
< 1535014779 754658 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um no, sorry
< 1535014791 971634 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be clear, in my language, {stmt1;if(x);stmt2;} means { stmt1; if(x) { stmt2; } } in C
< 1535014802 120395 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(stmt1;stmt2;expr) would have to be translated to loop{stmt1;stmt2;break expr} in rust
< 1535014825 513657 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wrong above about its rust translation
< 1535014827 999260 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: If you allow any control flow (goto, or setjmp/longjmp) to get back to an earlier statement, { a; b; c; } isn't strictly equivalent to { a; { b; { c; } } } in C either, because the lifetimes of objects with automatic storage duration (and non-VLA type) start from the entry into the associated block, not from the declaration.
< 1535014854 9255 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes. C's { stmt1; if(x) { stmt2; } } translates to geo's (stmt1; x!; stmt2;)
< 1535014872 447594 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also didn't mention that you can declare variables that are local to a block, just like in C
< 1535014878 613018 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like in C99 in fact
< 1535014998 963938 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also C's {if(x) stmt1; else { stmt2; stmt3; }} translates to (x?stmt1;stmt2;stmt3;); #note semicolon
< 1535015040 547947 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and C's { if(x) { stmt1; stmt2; } else { stmt3; stmt4; } } translates to geo's (x?(stmt1;stmt2;);stmt3;stmt4;)
< 1535015052 564934 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Is that also true in C++?
< 1535015054 470565 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then stmt1 and stmt3 could be a local variable declaration and the translation still works
< 1535015123 757382 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: OK, inferred too much from "(stmt0; ...; stmtN; cond!; *)"
< 1535015129 302064 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I
< 1535015138 132929 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it would be possible to extend geo with rust-like label blocks and labeled breaks, and with functions that have an argument list and return value, but I have never tried to implement that, and frankly back then I didn't even think of labeled blocks much.
< 1535015189 845861 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the https://esolangs.org/wiki/Geo page gives a rather concise but probably precise description. it doesn't give all details of the arithmetic operators' behavior, but that part is easy to modify in the source code anyway.
< 1535015426 650019 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also doesn't tell that [] returns a new array allocated on the heap, whose size you can later expand on the right with indexing, and [expr0,expr1,expr2] returns a newly allocated array pre-filled with three elements
< 1535015438 91814 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should mention something about this
< 1535015500 605364 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll add a bit
< 1535015549 10654 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Hmm, conditional exit was the main primitive I was thinking of defining things in terms of.
< 1535015579 641694 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what primitives are best.
< 1535015595 945907 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conditional exit and repeat?
< 1535015645 735335 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: geo is turing-complete, but not very convenient, because it doesn't have user-defined functions.
< 1535015681 26843 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't figure out a great way to handle if-else, either.
< 1535015748 145025 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean if (p) { ... } else { ... }
< 1535015779 95126 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I figured out some variants of switch-case etc. that were pretty neat.
< 1535015834 404034 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So for C's (p ? x : y), you use something like { endif(p, x); end y; }
< 1535015842 578884 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it's nicer with your syntax.
< 1535015873 220644 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't know, but probably not. Non-trivial initialization and all that. In C11 it's 6.2.4p6.
< 1535015932 606320 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Should it work that way or is it just that it does work that way?
< 1535016529 558293 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm extending the geo page on the wiki now, but the control structures are already explained.
< 1535017071 345036 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Do you have a good answer for if-else?
< 1535017086 829718 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The nice thing about C if-else is that you only have one level of {}
< 1535017341 309118 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what's wrong with what I said above?
< 1535017356 8416 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C's {if(x) stmt1; else { stmt2; stmt3; }} translates to geo (x?stmt1;stmt2;stmt3;); #note semicolon
< 1535017363 51590 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and C's { if(x) { stmt1; stmt2; } else { stmt3; stmt4; } } translates to geo's (x?(stmt1;stmt2;);stmt3;stmt4;)
< 1535017374 348091 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then in the latter, stmt1 and stmt3 could be a local variable declaration and the translation still works
< 1535017444 421816 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The trouble is double nesting.
< 1535017456 229674 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worse, the if and else aren't even at the same level of nesting.
< 1535017464 519802 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what double nesting? can you give an example?
< 1535017467 17195 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean stmt1 and stmt3
< 1535017477 568766 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are two levels of parentheses there.
< 1535017489 414679 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want symmetry, you can write (x?(stmt1;stmt2;);(stmt3;stmt4;))
< 1535017492 712569 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's still fine
< 1535017501 652748 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but you still have two layers of parentheses.
< 1535017522 487455 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In C, you can write "if (p) { ... }" and it's fine.
< 1535017531 863893 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. but only if you have more than one statement for the then-branch. you need braces in C for that case.
< 1535017536 281440 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And later if you want to do something in the other case, you can extend it to "if (p) { ... } else { ... }"
< 1535017549 454693 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can write elseif cascades easily:
< 1535017556 394203 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know.
< 1535017633 378110 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I have something like { cond; { when(p); ... }; { when(q); ... } }
< 1535017647 208543 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where "when(p)" implicitly breaks out of the surrounding "cond".
< 1535017689 367107 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :One nice thing is that you can write { cond; { when(p); ... }; { c := for(cs); when(x == c); ... } }
< 1535017789 297505 :ep100!~max@105.229.18.254 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535018261 966604 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535018916 850060 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535019229 432238 :sins-!~sins-@211.37.43.247 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535019421 222529 :sins-!~sins-@211.37.43.247 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1535019604 327041 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-fzmnopphcquteojb QUIT :Changing host
< 1535019604 327098 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535019604 391951 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Changing host
< 1535019604 415333 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-fzmnopphcquteojb JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535020380 721852 :Shragazord!~quassel@bzq-79-176-36-102.red.bezeqint.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535020848 705833 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I in fact now have no clue how arrays and localization work in geo, and I've read some of the code
< 1535021058 179983 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1535021146 947665 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535021166 547790 :Debiller777!bca33122@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.163.49.34 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535021538 722358 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535021817 717698 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1535021993 908668 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: If you're asking for a personal opinion, it's a little odd that there's a difference between VLAs and non-VLAs, and I can't think of any particularly reasonable use cases for using an automatic storage duration object before the declaration, so I wouldn't mind if the lifetime started from the declaration for all types.
< 1535022097 919726 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wc quotes
< 1535022098 496569 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​  1327  26733 160077 quotes
< 1535022121 931683 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( just 10 more till int-e gets annoyed )
< 1535022154 489609 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i remember the right person
< 1535022162 290786 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely he'll be delighted after 10, and annoyed after 11? 
< 1535022212 179984 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i interpreted him that 10 was bad too
< 1535022224 91435 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe.
< 1535022258 771392 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's still time for someone to update `addquote to drop the least important quote when it would exceed whatever the comfortable number was. (Determining the least important quote left as an exercise.)
< 1535022286 787241 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1535022287 494563 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :961) <Sgeo> I think pastaquote should just quote me
< 1535022307 886480 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :we do have the 5 quote tradition, it just doesn't get used much, as there aren't that many bad quotes left
< 1535022317 489252 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HaskEso had given me the same quote two times in a row
< 1535022339 23672 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: did you use a parameter with `quote ?
< 1535022350 511916 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's actually deterministic and lists all hits
< 1535022392 898709 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think there's `randquote for when you want to get around that
< 1535022396 993776 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`randquote beer
< 1535022397 861240 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :356) <olsner> as always in sweden everything goes to a fixed pattern: thursday is queueing at systembolaget to get beer and schnaps, friday is pickled herring, schnaps and dancing the frog dance around the phallos, saturday is dedicated to being hung over
< 1535022406 116327 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: of course no
< 1535022411 396802 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`randquote beer
< 1535022412 233497 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1253) <hppavilion[1]> izabera: It's sort of like the principal, as far as I know.  <hppavilion[1]> Except It only prints "<N> BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL!" Counting down from 99 to 0. With no line breaks.
< 1535022462 814055 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: personally i want to get to 1400 to ease my triskaidekaphobia
< 1535022582 528878 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote sweden
< 1535022583 472531 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :356) <olsner> as always in sweden everything goes to a fixed pattern: thursday is queueing at systembolaget to get beer and schnaps, friday is pickled herring, schnaps and dancing the frog dance around the phallos, saturday is dedicated to being hung over \ 650) <Phantom_Hoover> (I vehemently oppose the SNP because they want closer ties with Sweden.) \ 662) <fizzie> oerjan: Hey, what's your country code for telephonistic dialling from the outside world?  <
< 1535022606 488393 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 662
< 1535022609 281242 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :662) <fizzie> oerjan: Hey, what's your country code for telephonistic dialling from the outside world?  <oerjan> fizzie: +47  <fizzie> oerjan: Ooh, you're, like, right next to Sweden there.  <fizzie> I... guess you are geographically, too.
< 1535022619 645032 :olsner!~salparot@c83-253-165-33.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`randquote sweden
< 1535022620 385003 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :662) <fizzie> oerjan: Hey, what's your country code for telephonistic dialling from the outside world?  <oerjan> fizzie: +47  <fizzie> oerjan: Ooh, you're, like, right next to Sweden there.  <fizzie> I... guess you are geographically, too.
< 1535022631 273129 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`randquote olsner
< 1535022631 984349 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :894) <olsner> Gregor: are you in the brony documentary?
< 1535022657 472464 :olsner!~salparot@c83-253-165-33.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`randquote FireFly
< 1535022658 243556 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :831) <olsner> FireFly: oh, did you see ion's police reindeer? that was ... at least as on-topic as this discussion
< 1535022706 451847 :Cale_!~cale@rrcs-72-43-134-162.nyc.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535022768 685388 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wob_jonas complained that HackEso wasn't answering his private messages, then later said it does, and indeed it now does, but still isn't registered?
< 1535022884 648058 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm still +R. must be some automatic excepting after i message it, or something.
< 1535022975 855007 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps wob_jonas changed client from one which doesn't have that feature...
< 1535023707 610850 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh maybe fizzie took off the +R for HackEso 
< 1535023769 430056 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't done anything special.
< 1535023802 364667 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's working for me, which is odd.
< 1535023818 850858 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh or maybe wob_jonas wasn't registered himself
< 1535023853 72190 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: perhaps freenode have done something to reduce the effect of +R
< 1535023885 885860 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, maybe they implicitly allow replies now or something.
< 1535023929 661400 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEso itself probably still has +R on, so it wouldn't get the initial message from a non-registered sender.
< 1535023944 95664 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1535024140 85768 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, that's it: https://github.com/freenode/ircd-seven/pull/135
< 1535024172 706744 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah indeed, i just found that HackEso is on my /accept list
< 1535024217 868021 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine as well. Fancy.
< 1535024587 735738 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell wob_jonas <wob_jonas> oerjan: hackeso doesn't reply to my private messages. is this deliberate? <-- Freenode has default set all users +R because of the spammers, but also https://github.com/freenode/ircd-seven/pull/135 so it's transparent when a registered user messages a non-registered one (e.g. HackEso) first.
< 1535024587 800034 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1535024672 276869 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell wob_jonas HackEso itself hasn't changed.
< 1535024672 362754 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1535024805 359981 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm the underlying github issue isn't public
< 1535024808 252437 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well
< 1535024869 303932 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sadrbxursmhwybyv JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535024913 644903 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( wob_jonas _really_ doesn
< 1535024927 926242 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :'t want to learn HackEso's convenience commands... )
< 1535024944 152517 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, apostrophes are evilly placed on this keyboard.
< 1535025062 912395 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`doat bin/quotes
< 1535025064 489130 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :0:2012-02-16 Initïal import. \ 10027:2016-12-25 <oerjän> ` cp bin/quote{,s} # add rng improv
< 1535025107 884728 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell wob_jonas also, please learn to use the `doag etc. commands for HackEso log search, they are designed not to ping users.
< 1535025107 910533 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1535025139 405417 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell wob_jonas well, the committers, anyway.
< 1535025139 468268 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1535025175 98497 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? `doag
< 1535025176 100561 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`doag? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1535025196 559297 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not very helpful i guess.
< 1535025205 485172 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? `hoag
< 1535025206 729556 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`[hd]o[aw][gt] [<filename>] is a set of commands for querying HackEgo hg logs. `hoag is the basic version. d adds revision numbers and dates, w looks only in wisdom, and t lists oldest first.
< 1535025244 561608 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn `doag: See `hoag
< 1535025249 678896 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned '`doag': `doag: See `hoag
< 1535025280 745087 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn `doat: See `hoag
< 1535025282 772697 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned '`doat': `doat: See `hoag
< 1535025299 637360 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn `dowt: See `hoag
< 1535025301 732747 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned '`dowt': `dowt: See `hoag
< 1535025320 514124 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn `dowg: See `hoag
< 1535025322 738115 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned '`dowg': `dowg: See `hoag
< 1535025355 486990 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone use the h versions any longer
< 1535025608 382170 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` for i in hoat howg howt; do learn "$i"': See `hoag'; done
< 1535025614 726630 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'hoat': hoat: See `hoag \ Learned 'howg': howg: See `hoag \ Learned 'howt': howt: See `hoag
< 1535025621 660824 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1535025624 526670 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert
< 1535025625 686238 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1535025639 197517 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` for i in hoat howg howt; do learn \`"$i"': See `hoag'; done
< 1535025642 704836 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned '`hoat': `hoat: See `hoag \ Learned '`howg': `howg: See `hoag \ Learned '`howt': `howt: See `hoag
< 1535025689 585557 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? `hlnp
< 1535025690 873125 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`hlnp? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1535025699 707484 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/hlnp
< 1535025700 325253 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :scowrevs="$(/usr/bin/paste -sd'|' /hackenv/share/scowrevs)"; hg log -r "tip:0 & ! ($scowrevs)" "$@" | sed 's/\(\(^\| \)[<Itb][^ ]*\)\([^ ][^ ]\)/\1̈\3/'
< 1535025911 112323 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`doag bin/quotes
< 1535025912 601175 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :10027:2016-12-25 <oerjän> ` cp bin/quote{,s} # add rng improv \ 0:2012-02-16 Initïal import.
< 1535025939 576583 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what
< 1535025944 643185 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1535025951 545362 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`doag quotes
< 1535025952 853113 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :11610:2018-08-22 <arseniïv> addquote <wob_jonas> that real-world complexity doesn\'t fit my simple model of English  <wob_jonas> must be that darned Higgs-boson or some other symmetry-breaking mechanism \ 11589:2018-08-08 <oerjän> addquote <wob_jonas> and at least don\'t put Hofstadter next to the time cube guy without at least a semicolon, that\'s insulting Hofstadter \ 11585:2018-07-21 <oerjän> addquote <Aearnus> i\'m sending this from within a com
< 1535025965 715536 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm indeed only the committers
< 1535027221 192064 :Debiller777!bca33122@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.163.49.34 QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1535027292 191339 :Cale_!~cale@rrcs-72-43-134-162.nyc.biz.rr.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1535028247 102342 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`?
< 1535028248 84890 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1535028275 548341 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom
< 1535028276 387952 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​disflagrate//disflagrate v.t.perf.: a traditional technique from Poland (earliest attestation c. 1042) used to separate szoups. Nowadays, commercial production is entirely mechanized.
< 1535028296 526653 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom
< 1535028297 337142 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​alg. ii//Algae II, the successor class to Algae I. Discusses hydroponics and such.
< 1535028308 324548 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm
< 1535028775 403584 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535028805 114920 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? alg. i
< 1535028806 209489 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :alg. i? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1535029055 412783 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
> 1535029063 378030 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Andrew3335 5*  10New user account
> 1535029248 674299 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57421&oldid=57397 5* 03Andrew3335 5* (+230) 10
< 1535029354 474322 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later
< 1535029400 544691 :andrew3334!b2df2d0f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.223.45.15 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535029482 892971 :andrew3334!b2df2d0f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.223.45.15 QUIT :Client Quit
> 1535029579 538687 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Andrew333514]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=57422 5* 03Andrew3335 5* (+2) 10Created page with "I."
< 1535030672 300941 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535030779 518208 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do you think we (and I mean myself ;) need to describe that functional-combinatorian tarpit?
< 1535031119 18456 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it should be named Ⅎ
> 1535031426 283144 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Arseniiv14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57423&oldid=54934 5* 03Arseniiv 5* (+127) 10!
< 1535032578 294614 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535032634 646034 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I haven't registered the wob_jonas nick, but I'm logged in to my b_jonas account (as you can see if you whois or whox me) to be able to speak here
< 1535032688 65814 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sorry, you're right. I tried to use private messages to not ping users
< 1535032776 283251 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you're right, I shouldn't have pinged them
< 1535033491 647426 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1535035537 873414 :Shragazord!~quassel@bzq-79-176-36-102.red.bezeqint.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1535035998 9731 :impomatic!~digital_w@host86-144-19-142.range86-144.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1535036021 655391 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535036322 708699 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1535037472 168578 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1535037832 466770 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535038206 140599 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jnbqbimtrqwptcsn JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535038625 441795 :clog_!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Quit: ^C
< 1535038637 298285 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535039229 298740 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
> 1535039444 628842 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0714]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=57424 5* 03Arseniiv 5* (+2477) 10unctional!
< 1535039500 627569 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :_now_ I’m finally at rest
< 1535039538 164769 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, my IRC client/font doesn’t display an article name
< 1535039611 72823 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no it’s actually unlogged!
> 1535040022 754389 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57425&oldid=57419 5* 03Arseniiv 5* (+10) 10 added
< 1535040231 818828 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it’s maybe a bug in esowiki bot, as you should be able to see Ⅎ when it’s written in this post, and in that one too
< 1535041308 711927 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric
> 1535041414 63161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Cheesepizza2 5*  10New user account
> 1535041609 227366 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57426&oldid=57421 5* 03Cheesepizza2 5* (+328) 10/* Introductions */
> 1535041643 80993 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GHOST14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57427&oldid=45105 5* 03Cheesepizza2 5* (-85) 10/* WARNING */
> 1535042037 172970 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07F-PULSE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57428&oldid=49971 5* 03Cheesepizza2 5* (+27) 10/* Operands */
< 1535042270 163063 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1535043219 794410 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GHOST14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57429&oldid=57427 5* 03Cheesepizza2 5* (+9) 10
< 1535043397 438882 :LKoen_!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535043406 57382 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1535043434 686312 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535043967 427849 :LKoen_!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1535044848 638208 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a46c74.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535044948 973231 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535044949 202559 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a QUIT :Changing host
< 1535044949 225199 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535045047 325871 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a page on wiki which lists useful templates?
< 1535045538 666139 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1535047316 694275 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535047830 984138 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535047897 873157 :lynn_!sid154965@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-priykhhwbhrfkcyg QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1535047926 131053 :lynn_!sid154965@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zdwwqpewbpbmtblo JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535048318 16388 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:511:d8d0:be33:bfe6 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1535048983 607222 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1535049040 662252 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:d808:948b:f3ce:8c22 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535049495 608140 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Quit: brb
< 1535049513 983919 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535052433 163420 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1535054333 765240 :Fogity!~Fogity@hr-sgs.kvi.sgsnet.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1535054533 433613 :Fogity!~Fogity@hr-sgs.kvi.sgsnet.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535056574 620006 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1535056767 690923 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1535057238 307595 :ep100!~max@105.229.18.254 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1535057337 761665 :ep100!~max@105.229.18.254 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535057960 867309 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone interested in a numeric computation puzzle about optimizing generation of special random vectors?
< 1535059871 978385 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1535059920 683170 :ep100!~max@105.229.18.254 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1535060231 675119 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535060649 301488 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535061603 426200 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
> 1535062709 371122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Sharpjaws 5*  10New user account
< 1535062718 813733 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535063509 740306 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a46c74.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1535063567 382223 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
> 1535064321 179536 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57430&oldid=57426 5* 03Sharpjaws 5* (+202) 10
< 1535064479 290466 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Have you considered that ALGOL 68 should be the new Sgeolang?
< 1535064487 5013 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ada might not be the ticket.
< 1535064501 785748 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? sgeolang
< 1535064503 3353 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeolang used to change frequently, but eventually it rusted in place.
< 1535064720 464919 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535065204 376285 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed PART :#esoteric
< 1535065475 345312 :mt13!~mt@61.130.232.163 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535065524 431002 :mt13!~mt@61.130.232.163 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1535065684 806724 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1535066042 650103 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1535066360 701749 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xperia wallpapers took their toll on me: https://s22.postimg.cc/8g3zzxz8h/anim-24082018_T041317.gif
< 1535067263 978472 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1535067703 516782 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1535068390 882257 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535071515 647356 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Quit: ^C
< 1535071528 678241 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535071640 296315 :hpt!~hpt@222.120.225.38 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535071824 147329 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Quit: ^C
< 1535071836 414677 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535071860 18880 :hpt!~hpt@222.120.225.38 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1535072117 359166 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they should add a DATE and TIME command into DOSBOX to set the clock skew amount for the current DOS session.
< 1535072136 908472 :kiera8!~kiera@176.233.115.25 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535072195 652290 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you think?
< 1535072229 337809 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Quit: ^C
< 1535072233 607076 :kiera8!~kiera@176.233.115.25 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1535072829 917956 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1535072864 262256 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535073190 683417 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535073316 959979 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Client Quit
< 1535073349 403853 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535073427 590343 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Client Quit
< 1535073570 240958 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535073892 709416 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Quit: ^C
< 1535073965 824948 :nodist!~nodist@pool-108-41-59-111.nycmny.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535074279 389507 :nodist!~nodist@pool-108-41-59-111.nycmny.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1535074598 794167 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1535074638 332544 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535076517 292329 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535076647 762997 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1535077184 579529 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jnbqbimtrqwptcsn QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1535077730 91052 :sparr!~sparr@pdpc/supporter/active/sparr QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1535077730 947313 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1535077733 451121 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :*.net *.split
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< 1535077802 984949 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535077922 785397 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1535077922 914940 :olsner!~salparot@c83-253-165-33.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1535077925 136285 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :*.net *.split
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< 1535077931 132952 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1535077931 948101 :Yurume_______!23f9939a@121.78.85.35 QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1535077932 164500 :heroux_!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-jqwsbcpmkduagqgf QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1535077932 601980 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-002-203-038-071.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1535077933 148050 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535077947 234754 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6aa5-174.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535077947 299826 :paul2520!~paul2520@paulkaefer.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535077957 42564 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535077958 863081 :heroux_!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-rfiznuhxsjagkwkx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535077981 210742 :Melvar!~melvar@2.203.38.71 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535077998 709504 :Yurume_______!23f9939a@121.78.85.35 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535078035 319183 :rodgort!~rodgort@68.ip-149-56-14.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535078037 972047 :G33kDude!~G33kDude@c-174-53-70-27.hsd1.wv.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535078070 964661 :mniip!mniip@freenode/staff/mniip JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535078080 563380 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf QUIT :Quit: Reconnecting
< 1535078086 707020 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535078198 116859 :paul2520!~paul2520@paulkaefer.com NICK :Guest61282
< 1535078273 484341 :Guest61282!~paul2520@paulkaefer.com QUIT :Changing host
< 1535078273 484409 :Guest61282!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535078404 410906 :G33kDude!~G33kDude@c-174-53-70-27.hsd1.wv.comcast.net NICK :Guest56097
< 1535078581 462078 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com QUIT :Changing host
< 1535078581 462128 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535079152 839538 :subleq!~gavin@207.173.246.52 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535079252 863791 :olsner!~salparot@c83-253-165-33.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535079339 876756 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535079452 82207 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1535079633 717801 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535079789 387350 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535079826 809197 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1535079951 4914 :lynn_!sid154965@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zdwwqpewbpbmtblo QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1535079951 678123 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-fzmnopphcquteojb QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1535079952 663078 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :*.net *.split
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< 1535079955 600801 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1535079956 931037 :Storkman_!~Storkman@storkman.xyz QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1535079958 299711 :zemhill____!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi QUIT :*.net *.split
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< 1535079960 661412 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:d808:948b:f3ce:8c22 QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1535079963 16485 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1535079963 186974 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1535079963 283832 :puck!~puck@puckipedia.com QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1535079967 583445 :trn!jhj@prone.ws QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1535079996 509264 :lynn_!sid154965@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zdwwqpewbpbmtblo JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535079996 509338 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-fzmnopphcquteojb JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535079996 509353 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535079996 509365 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535079996 509377 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535079996 509389 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535079996 509401 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535079996 509416 :Storkman_!~Storkman@storkman.xyz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535079996 509428 :zemhill____!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535079996 509440 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535080016 801690 :puckipedia!~puck@puckipedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535080079 234576 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:d808:948b:f3ce:8c22 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535080079 257278 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535080079 257339 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535080079 257369 :trn!jhj@prone.ws JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535081134 573381 :SakiiR1!~SakiiR@112.171.212.93 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535081201 319485 :SakiiR1!~SakiiR@112.171.212.93 QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
< 1535082665 313818 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535082700 416963 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1535084436 394437 :nct56!~alfalfa@unaffiliated/irrationalist JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535085890 716581 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1535086001 389414 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535086141 437181 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1535086276 829501 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535086326 320490 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1535087460 713551 :nct56!~alfalfa@unaffiliated/irrationalist QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1535090925 829702 :olsner!~salparot@c83-253-165-33.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in
< 1535091064 656459 :olsner!~salparot@c83-253-165-33.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric
> 1535092537 516158 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda Calculus to Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57431&oldid=57411 5* 03A 5* (+106) 10/* Bored? Let's enjoy an example */
< 1535092645 468165 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sadrbxursmhwybyv QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
> 1535092854 341972 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda Calculus to Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57432&oldid=57431 5* 03A 5* (+104) 10
> 1535093490 413919 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57433&oldid=57307 5* 03A 5* (+138) 10I have another attempt.
> 1535093568 129808 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda Calculus to Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57434&oldid=57432 5* 03A 5* (+80) 10
< 1535093646 442540 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535094494 721262 :tromp_!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535094548 899995 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1535094786 18035 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1535095025 692327 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535095453 649307 :ep100!~max@105.229.18.254 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535095668 412740 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
> 1535096983 884205 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ackermann function14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57435&oldid=8525 5* 03A 5* (+263) 10And another implementation that exactly obeys the explanation on Wikipedia
> 1535097132 781838 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ackermann function14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57436&oldid=57435 5* 03A 5* (-23) 10
> 1535097342 552601 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Quine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57437&oldid=11533 5* 03A 5* (+71) 10On Wikipedia
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< 1535102847 229907 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION morning

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> 1535116574 7774 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printf14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=57438 5* 03A 5* (+503) 10Created page with "printf is a simple programming language. ==Syntax== It is really VERY simple.  It is a version of C in which you can't use any of the keywords and there is only a function cal..."
> 1535116584 511873 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printf14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57439&oldid=57438 5* 03A 5* (+1) 10
> 1535116626 783732 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printf14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57440&oldid=57439 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10
> 1535116657 846241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printf14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57441&oldid=57440 5* 03A 5* (+4) 10
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> 1535117610 783800 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57442&oldid=57076 5* 03Fogity 5* (+285) 10/* Example programs */ Added Ackermann function
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> 1535119106 149505 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printf14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57443&oldid=57441 5* 03Zzo38 5* (-103) 10
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> 1535120492 315504 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57444&oldid=56687 5* 03Arseniiv 5* (+396) 10/* Categorization */ new section
< 1535120564 492833 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope it wasn’t too sarcastic :D
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< 1535133525 353618 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't just window functions in the next version of SQLite, but also a few bug fixes including one having to do with upsert.
< 1535133627 653110 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535133688 541376 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :has it been proven that Ⅎ requires parentheses to be Turing-complete?
< 1535133854 980734 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hmm, maybe it's a PDA without them?
< 1535134022 94725 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, without parens a program always expands into a list of funtions that exist within the original program, evaluating consists of popping the first so many list entries and pushing the definition
< 1535134026 814494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can only see a finite depth into the stack
< 1535134062 879306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and parens allow multiple functions to be grouped, Underload-style, so that list elements can become arbitrarily complex and thus break through the PDA barrier
< 1535134587 783607 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :This document https://sqlite.org/appfileformat.html mentions four kind of application file formats (fully custom, pile-of-files, wrapped-pile-of-files, SQLite), but also, a SQLite database can be used like wrapped-pile-of-files, and also you can have pile-of-wrapped-pile-of-files, and Microsoft Word format is a wrapped-pile-of-files too actually.
< 1535134667 744039 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind os best depend on the use.
< 1535134963 289679 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1535135110 955993 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think Ⅎ requires one level of parenthesis, but not more, to be TC, but I'm not quite sure.
< 1535135194 743453 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been thinking somewhat of a different language with the same goal (the minimal essence of functional programming), which has a somewhat similar goal, but is clearly not the same language.
< 1535135250 611448 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That language is more complicated to define, because it needs more primitives, but might be slightly easier to implement.
< 1535135289 626654 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially easier to implement if you want non-conservative garbage collection for it.
< 1535135380 120531 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: one is enough, yes
< 1535135383 946312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can define s with that
< 1535135385 984076 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and k doesn't need any
< 1535135438 93910 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a finalized canon version of my language though, only vague ideas.
< 1535135474 482294 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My goal was more a compromise towards being very easy to implement, rather than "the essence".
< 1535135520 458528 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also more compromise to being somewhat easy to use and somewhat efficient, although still not a production language.
< 1535135558 967554 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like a toy language to illustrate language design and implementing an interpreter and programs in it.
< 1535135606 719230 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, this implies that Ⅎ is TC with exactly one pair of parentheses in the whole program
< 1535135650 74368 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Consumer Society would replace its goals in parts, although that one is more esoteric in design and less easy to implement and less easy to use.
< 1535135654 970084 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I finally got around to reading about ALGOL 68.
< 1535135667 253854 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow
< 1535135668 120805 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems like a good language.
< 1535135674 882110 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's surprising, but sounds true
< 1535135675 284608 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What have PL people done anything in the past 50 years?
< 1535135697 431972 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Algol 68 has some really interesting ideas, but is possibly somewhat impractical
< 1535135705 314373 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was a failure at the time because nobody could figure out how to implement it
< 1535135712 212494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with reasonable efficiency
< 1535135759 549474 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, it still looks more advanced in a way than "mainstream" imperative languages, we've spent the last 50 years just catching back up to it
< 1535135797 108157 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: C (which was a low level language better aligned to the computers of that era), modern C++ (more powerful and expressive than C), and rust (tries to redo stupid historical problems in C++ while having somewhat the same goals, it's a bit young yet and not fully mature, but otoh C++ is now overmature)
< 1535135804 895153 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the cutting-edge research has mostly been in different paradigms
< 1535135824 294508 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Algol 68 had all sorts of great features that C and C++ don't have.
< 1535135844 252415 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: all three of these have similar paradigms and goals as algol and fortran I think, but are updated with what can be done on more modern machines
< 1535135853 539651 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: can you be more specific? I don't know algol 68
< 1535135857 861344 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was admittedly garbage collected, which is pretty odd for 50 years ago (and maybe odd for today).
< 1535135859 110133 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what great features specifically?
< 1535135872 264894 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_ALGOL_68_and_C%2B%2B talks about some of it.
< 1535135884 53300 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't think it was odd 50 years ago. wasn't that already when lisp machines with gc were established?
< 1535135895 853310 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, some of them only had gc for fixed-size conses
< 1535135897 683929 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still
< 1535135929 766252 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolog has gc, but is newer
< 1535135930 177278 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, odd for a language that might be in competition with C.
< 1535135947 990655 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Also thanks for mentioning Geo, it's more similar to the things I was looking for than I though.
< 1535135965 927532 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't think C was meant to be in direct competition with algol
< 1535135988 563766 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was certainly inspired, but then most programming languages are inspired by the other popular programming languages that already existed
< 1535135989 87603 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured out what "break", "continue", "return" etc. mean, I don't remember whether I mentioned.
< 1535135992 8426 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is a B derivative that adds a type system
< 1535136002 839706 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and B was focused on being as easy to implement as possible
< 1535136042 672992 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: break, continue, return in what? I admit geo's documentation isn't really complete, and in particular I have no idea what the precise semantics of "var" declarations are.
< 1535136057 533115 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you have labeled exit, break/continue/return all just mean exit to a particular label.
< 1535136070 896297 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it's a weird toy language that I made long ago and frozen, it's not a good language, I don't stand by the decisions I made for it anymore.
< 1535136081 105557 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yeah, we talked aboutr that
< 1535136091 225423 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I didn't remember whether I put it that way.
< 1535136102 379663 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So "return x;" just means "exit @return_label x;"
< 1535136144 673559 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Algol 68 had nonlocal goto. So strange.
< 1535136158 63605 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Was it Algol 68 that you mentioned call-by-name semantics for not long ago?
< 1535136178 653940 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think I mentioned that the C standard and IIRC the C++ standard *define* them that way. the full definition is tricky because they act on both while/do-while/for loops and switches, but
< 1535136202 51808 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotos are certainly the easiest way to define them in those languages, because they match how they affect the lexical scope and runtime scope of variables.
< 1535136210 323796 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/runtime scope/runtime liveness/
< 1535136244 892332 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the construction and deconstruction of variables and temporaries too in C++.
< 1535136355 543699 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm saying this for C and C++ in particular, it's slightly less true in perl, and even less true in ruby and rust.
< 1535136370 673252 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway the reason I ended up reading about Algol 68 was that I was trying to figure out what lvalues are.
< 1535136385 309502 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :C has the notion of lvalues and also of pointers, and they're pretty similar.
< 1535136405 670582 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what do you mean by "call-by-name"? do you mean just passing function arguments by a pointer/reference to them? because I think fortran has that.
< 1535136419 954222 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1535136427 823492 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember the example ais523 gave was pretty surprising but I don't remember the details now.
< 1535136431 108493 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that's tricky because every language treats lvalues differently.
< 1535136464 841858 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Algol 68, as far as I can tell, you don't don't ever declare mutable variables exactly.
< 1535136468 799795 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what do you mean by nonlocal goto? goto across function boundaries?
< 1535136492 464051 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can pass a goto label as an argument to a function, and it looks to it like a function pointer.
< 1535136515 815337 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: oh, computed/indirect goto. wow.
< 1535136533 156569 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the equivalent of "int x = 5;" is something like "int *const x = stack_allocate; *x = 5;"
< 1535136538 699787 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With a shorthand syntax.)b
< 1535136583 656096 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no direct mutable variables is surprising for that age, but I'm not sure if it's a feature over C and C++, because you can use one-element arrays in C and references in C++ in a somewhat similar way.
< 1535136614 601126 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ references are something weird and suspicious.
< 1535136629 442397 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact there's a trick in C where a library header defines an opaque type as a one-element array if such values are to be passed to library functions by reference but can be allocated on the stack.
< 1535136640 32357 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GMP does that for example
< 1535136661 179914 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: they're weird, but part of the weirdness is that it took a long time to figure out the right semantics, so there are some historical mistakes on them
< 1535136704 839976 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not so sure they've figured out the right semantics anyway.
< 1535136708 806233 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :done right I think references are a good tool, although one that is prone to overusing
< 1535136719 283230 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: they're working on it, and some of it is too late to fix
< 1535136730 348102 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of it they're still trying to add to future versions
< 1535136741 545012 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are multiple problems to be solved
< 1535136777 780366 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly connected with efficient handling of refs to data structures that are not trivial to copy or move or initialize empty or destroy
< 1535136799 714373 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also with just the current syntax and library support not being good enough
< 1535136807 697416 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ is so complicated.
< 1535136817 887571 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the Algol system because it seems simpler than the C system.
< 1535136835 769219 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how they combine with more questionable features, such as the new initializer-list-arguments and variadic templates
< 1535136846 512823 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the implicit coercions between ref int and int and so on are suspicious.
< 1535136882 383587 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: but does the algol system has any inefficiencies, like things you can't do efficiently because of them or that are hard to do efficiently?
< 1535136918 115641 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially in low-level programs that want to be efficient at runtime
< 1535136922 582829 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which C wants to support
< 1535136938 369602 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it'd be the same?
< 1535136957 630283 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know algol, that's why I'm asking
< 1535136993 461416 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't either.
< 1535137090 463137 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rust references are very different, they're less powerful than the C++ ones (at least currently, they're working on some of that), and have very different kinds of magic from the C++ references (and I hate some of the rust magic, but some of it is about traits, and that magic would be already there without references, references just make it worse)
< 1535137148 902978 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rust has references?
< 1535137155 595805 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought they just have different kinds of pointers.
< 1535137236 445991 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: sort of. there's something they call references, which differ from the pointers it also has (and the pointers differ from C pointers, but that's a different question), they have very different goals from C++ references, but some of the goals are shared.
< 1535137383 450715 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: here's an example of call-by-name (pseudocode C-like syntax): int x = 3; int f(int y) {x = 5; return y+1;} print(f(x+4));
< 1535137389 438121 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, C pointers are easy to almost simulate with rust pointers, so rust is strictly more powerful in them, with the exception that rust doesn't have an offsetof
< 1535137391 925468 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this prints 10
< 1535137405 417766 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Rust has C pointers too
< 1535137432 76795 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it has rust pointers, which are similar to C pointers but differ in two ways
< 1535137446 329706 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, two ways not counting the lack of offsetof
< 1535137452 37969 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: you can think of call-by-name as effectively passing the concept of "x+4" as an argument, as opposed to 7 (i.e. the value of x+4)
< 1535137495 872999 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow, that is strange to have in such an old language, especially if it has that by default. that means making automatic closures.
< 1535137522 692305 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :languages took a lot of time until they started to support even explicit closures, except for lisp, most of which had it from the start
< 1535137529 956300 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I'm not sure
< 1535137534 612633 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe lisp didn't have them from the start
< 1535137557 831526 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it requires closures? it requires some sort of lightweight functional thing, but I don't think it's a closure
< 1535137562 178627 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it doesn't capture anything
< 1535137602 992219 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, unless you allow recursion, in which case it captures the current stack depth so that it can disambiguate which version of a local variable you mean
< 1535137603 401494 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :both scheme and common lisp has them now, but in scheme and haskell and standard ml, function references and named functions have close to the same syntax and behavior, whereas in common lisp they have different syntax, and in prolog they have different syntax and behavior
< 1535137681 204995 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it captures at least a pointer to stack. some C++ closures and gcc C closures are implemented that way, although C++ doesn't strictly speaking guarantees this,
< 1535137702 77564 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I think "captures a pointer to stack" is the right way to think about this
< 1535137721 943492 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's the same concept as a gcc nested function
< 1535137733 325662 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is also suffering from the lack of a good name
< 1535137741 388740 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although C++/rust closures have a code size hit because they're specialized for each closure body, whereas gcc C closures have a runtime hit, because they're implemented in a way that that their calling convention is compatible with plain C functions
< 1535137755 625576 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, the trampoline
< 1535137856 173554 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Are you sure Algol 68 does that?
< 1535137859 459474 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also the part where gcc C functions require an executable stack, which people hate these days, but that wasn't yet the case when gcc C closures were invented, because back then most CPU MMUs didn't support non-executable readable memory areas on a flat address arch
< 1535137876 844249 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Algol 68 doesn't do that, call-by-name is an Algol 60 thing
< 1535137886 903706 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1535137893 230889 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Algol 68 changed to call-by-value because people found call-by-name too confusing and too hard to implement
< 1535137896 228705 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think gcc's primary target were flat address CPUs even back then
< 1535137935 817407 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes sense.
< 1535137938 339681 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to segmented ones, which did support non-executable readable segments, which in fact was easy to implement in 286 since they already had to support at least three differently executable segments, if not four
< 1535137942 324145 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more I think
< 1535137964 633246 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :16 bit versus 32 bit, and normal executable segments vs interrupt gates vs system call gates, and I think that's partly orthogonal
< 1535137975 559823 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :32 bit only on the 386 I guess
< 1535138027 272941 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I believe fortran has had call by reference from the start, which is easier. it just involves passing a transparent-syntax pointer to the argument, even if the argument is a temporary
< 1535138075 167830 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"call-by-reference" is basically just call-by-lvalue (whereas "call-by-value" is call-by-rvalue)
< 1535138083 961706 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :programming languages stopped that when functions got cheap enough that people started to make a lot of them, and call by ref became a severe runtime performance hit, especially because cross-compilation-unit it can't be optimized away
< 1535138094 543937 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes.
< 1535138094 724043 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by-reference and by-value are basically identical, just differ in whether it's an lvalue or rvalue you're passing
< 1535138118 220503 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a bit skeptical of lvalues, I think.
< 1535138122 624102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Perl is a good example of an actually call-by-reference language
< 1535138129 645668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's also capable of return-by-reference, which is just bizarre
< 1535138139 205731 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but exclusive call-by-reference is not a good idea if you want efficient low-level programming, which was a goal of C from the start
< 1535138157 697247 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ... perl is strange though, also for historical reasons
< 1535138162 17544 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only use for return-by-reference I've discovered so far is the array syntax in A Pear Tree
< 1535138211 508158 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is return-by-reference?
< 1535138216 625869 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl parses "x[3]" as a call to the function x whose argument is an anonymous array reference to an array containing only the element 3
< 1535138217 616193 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :BASIC does call by reference normally but you can specify BYVAL if you want by values instead
< 1535138228 696928 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ operator[] returns references which seems like one of the only justifications for having references maybe.
< 1535138239 783778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's actually possible to write this function such that you can make it return the array element as an lvalue, so you can still assign to it
< 1535138245 145453 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's even more strange that perl has had builtins returning magical references, namely vec and substr, before it had user-definable magic scalars
< 1535138247 551084 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: come to think of it, this implies that Ⅎ is TC with exactly one pair of parentheses in the whole program => great and neat, I’ll include it in the article with the now obvious s-k proof
< 1535138275 613472 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they added that syntax for substr because BASIC had it (at least most dialects, some BASICs don't even have strings)
< 1535138284 255429 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: @_ is magical too, stealing the magic from @_ is a fun way to do programming puzzles
< 1535138293 945315 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, I know
< 1535138299 886061 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a link for that too
< 1535138355 109733 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(BYVAL is only valid for numbers though; it cannot be used with strings, structures, or arrays)
< 1535138492 717511 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So a pointer is a thing whose value is a memory location; an lvalue is a memory location. Is that right?
< 1535138605 62279 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=302287 question 1 and 3, https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=376362 exercise 6 IIRC
< 1535138606 967965 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe an lvalue is a thing that has a memory location, instead.
< 1535138616 132729 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :about perl @_ magic
< 1535138639 62812 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: again, in what language?
< 1535138658 658097 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :C.
< 1535138691 506251 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: in that case, for C pointers to objects and C lvalues, yes, for pointers to functions, usually but not necessarily
< 1535138750 917579 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the type of the pointer may restrict what memory locations are allowed, but a void * can point to any data or function (except bitfields) and you can losslessly use it that way
< 1535138772 756413 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1535138785 732242 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a struct {} * can point to any structure or union (which may be a bit more restrictive on crazy architectures)
< 1535138828 125342 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: C technically has lvalues to bitfields, and you can't have pointers to them
< 1535138844 104288 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're rare and I hate them
< 1535138879 902702 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I hate bitfields, and they'd be basically unusable without lvalues.)
< 1535138939 371378 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously, "a memory location" is quite general, because C is defined in such a way that you can store practically anything in a memory location, possibly with some indirection involved
< 1535138947 749215 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can allocate new memory locations and put anything in them
< 1535138977 251983 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :char * is actually the most general pointer
< 1535138982 226621 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not void *
< 1535139000 50727 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I already know how Perl @_ magic works
< 1535139004 867764 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's possibly more insane than you'd think
< 1535139016 843217 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure, I'm just showing some examples of its insane uses
< 1535139020 760893 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, functions like memcpy take char * not void *
< 1535139021 45258 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: did you solve your build system
< 1535139024 6661 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, the internal implementation of Perl arrays is sufficiently general to allow them to contain other arrays, and even hashes
< 1535139030 517250 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not references to them, the array/hash itself)
< 1535139035 542595 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no
< 1535139039 108685 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure you can make that happen without XS
< 1535139042 411278 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might not know how insane it is, I know recent perl has specific optimizations to avoid the slowdown with @_'s crazyness in many cases when that's not needed
< 1535139051 471363 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: in fact it takes >12 hours now
< 1535139120 348376 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think that would break invariants badly, but otoh arbitrary aliasing of scalars usually doesn't, it only breaks some optimizations, and there are some types of aliasing you can only do with XS or non-core modules.
< 1535139136 935977 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: with that first link, an "intended solution" to question 5 actually got added to the language, presumably after that question was asked
< 1535139215 367396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: haha, I like the solution to exercise 1 that sets $[
< 1535139215 541272 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: even its implementation? this question allows you to use undocumented features or bugs, and refers to a specific version of perl
< 1535139238 676354 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: it'd be in a later version
< 1535139270 118528 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably this was as a replacement for the "my $x if 0;" bug
< 1535139337 631900 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how do you know what the intended solutions were? I'm not sure xmath ever said explicitly, he only gave hints, and he admitted that people found better solutions for some of the exercises
< 1535139362 790336 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: you're misreading my comment
< 1535139378 718738 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean that Perl now has an intentional way to create a static variable lexically scoped to a single subroutine
< 1535139380 509993 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see
< 1535139388 532644 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"an" intended solution, not "the" intended solution
< 1535139394 436723 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's "scope"
< 1535139421 955925 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535139461 458951 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1535139462 769398 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"state"
< 1535139465 51789 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not "scope"
< 1535139775 482907 :LKoen_!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535139865 194182 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: hm i don't know why HackEso didn't respond to you, then.
< 1535139869 779986 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those crazy old perl puzzles were fun, xmath even credits me with finding an alternate solution he didn't know of
< 1535139902 464365 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it might have been an error on my part, like typoing his name (although I think I checked) or messaging him before I identified to freenode
< 1535139927 761506 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1535139930 699267 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it did reply to me later in similar conditions, it's probably solved
< 1535139934 328815 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever it was
< 1535139938 115603 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact let me ask him now
< 1535139951 4730 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does answer me now
< 1535139953 596238 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and quickly too
< 1535139959 602268 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :good
< 1535139974 926592 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't take twenty seconds to get swapped in like hackeso did
< 1535139979 883795 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was mostly an upgrade
< 1535139989 378208 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1535140022 409836 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should try to install 7za to it so I can extract compressed files downloaded with `fetch more easily
< 1535140033 262026 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried for hackego but failed
< 1535140039 416316 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it will work if I tried again
< 1535140043 418364 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm lazy to try now
< 1535140050 942515 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to install a binary
< 1535140061 41334 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think there was some incompatibility with system libraries
< 1535140208 720935 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still can't tell if I should be proud or ashamed of having gotten two consecutive quotes in the hackeso quotedb
> 1535140236 424281 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0714]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57445&oldid=57424 5* 03Arseniiv 5* (+269) 10more about power
> 1535140298 933866 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0714]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57446&oldid=57445 5* 03Arseniiv 5* (+6) 10a single word is worth more than a thousand dollars (no)
< 1535140478 277488 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is that think "usability unknown"?
< 1535140483 237725 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Totally different topic. I'm re-reading Leon Lenderman's pop science book.
< 1535140492 264379 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoprogrammers are good at using things, if it's TC it's almost certainly usable
< 1535140513 966692 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess exceptions could be languages which were inherently very slow, or the like
< 1535140514 803297 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why then there is that category?
< 1535140528 84847 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: it's for languages where we don't know if you can produce usable programs in them at all
< 1535140537 80880 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaah
< 1535140551 495436 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For much of the book, he talks about his carreer as the director of a particle accelerator, including being responsible for keeping its budget, and then about convincing president Reagan to fund a more expensive future particle accelerator from state funds.
< 1535140555 311609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some languages which are sub-TC but obviously usable, like finite-tape brainfuck
< 1535140572 120917 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are some languages which we're not sure whether they approach any sort of meaningful computational class
< 1535140590 48965 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I’ll delete that category from both Ⅎ and YE…A
< 1535140642 131782 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then a bit later, he gives the simulee that the Big Bang is a "particle-accelerator without a budget constraint", and explains that astrophisicists are examining its consequences with space-based telescopes and making a model about it and that the physics research for astrophysics and particle physics connects.
> 1535140655 955692 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07YEOOIIOOIOA14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57447&oldid=54939 5* 03Arseniiv 5* (-31) 10usability known!
< 1535140691 400063 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I the only one who finds the "without budget constraints" part strange? Those space-based telescopes cost a ton of money, and Lenderman must have been familiar with that.
> 1535140697 607618 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0714]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57448&oldid=57446 5* 03Arseniiv 5* (-31) 10it is completely usable when or if implemented
< 1535140732 694212 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw https://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Usability_unknown is vague on the topic
< 1535140766 897760 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone should write something clearer, then
< 1535140771 35423 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: try https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Categorization , it often gives better desc of the categories
< 1535140810 905383 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: not much clearer(
< 1535140839 112602 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember I’ve read all that thoroughly when writing YE…A article :)
< 1535140884 112295 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep reading that page just to remember what categories we use. I've made a page that has nine categories.
< 1535140898 731583 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/Game_of_Life
< 1535140901 784030 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1535140921 289701 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not made, but extended seriously
< 1535140962 827292 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still short, but it was even shorter
< 1535140973 851382 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's an important language because of its popularity
< 1535140978 537095 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw doesn’t “Turing tarpits” imply “Turing-complete” (categorizationally speaking)?
< 1535140984 586097 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, like Intercal
< 1535140999 248318 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, GoL is
< 1535141006 848294 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :…something…
< 1535141008 784182 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: yes, but we still add both categories to most lang pages apparently
< 1535141015 362057 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: it does, but I think we decided to put both categories on
< 1535141018 748144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a discussion about it a while back
< 1535141030 633260 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a few pages that only have the tarpit, but they might be mistakes
< 1535141039 932756 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, there are language pages still missing [[Category:Languages]]
< 1535141046 553517 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a mistake too
> 1535141070 197459 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07IPVL14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57449&oldid=56995 5* 03Oerjan 5* (-27) 10Eviscerate non-category
< 1535141082 881819 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish the main namespace was reserved for languages (plus redirects), but we don't want to change that now
< 1535141106 103711 :xkapastel!~user@142.93.249.241 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535141121 308531 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though they say when Conway got to know High life, he said that in a fair world it should be named the life instead of the usual one
< 1535141157 257112 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a few pages that only have the tarpit, but they might be mistakes => oh then I’ll add this one too
< 1535141160 720748 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like how the main namespace of Wiktionary is reserved for headword entries (so much that [[Main Page]] is a redirect IIRC), the one for Wikimedia Commons is reserved for galleries, and the one for wikidata is reserved for entries that aren't even in wikitext format
< 1535141188 944477 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the one for wikidata is reserved for entries that aren't even in wikitext format => :D hehe
> 1535141192 318936 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0714]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57450&oldid=57159 5* 03Oerjan 5* (-27) 10Eviscerate non-category
< 1535141208 316183 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: don't believe that to me btw, believe that to ais523 or other trusted people
< 1535141276 238426 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: well, it's fair, because that's the main purpose and the largest amount of entries in wikidata, and those entries are still "wiki" in the sense that they're easy to edit by anyone and have full dated version history unfalsifiable by non-admis readable to everyone
> 1535141290 684638 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printf14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57451&oldid=57443 5* 03Oerjan 5* (-27) 10No such thing
< 1535141328 319941 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: believe that to ais523 or other trusted people => reasonable precaution (however I don’t think you’re that far from the consensus)
< 1535141356 896267 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: Commons should probably have had media as its main namespace, but they'd have to modify the mediawiki software for that, which probably wasn't worth the trouble, since media files in their own separate namespace was already supported by default in mediawiki (although commons has some enchancements since)
< 1535141451 497423 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, Commons isn't as strange as Wikidata: the media still all come with a description page in wikitext format, which can be edited and read and version historied and dump downloaded and categorized independently from the media content, and I believe you can even create a page in the namespace with zero versions of the media content uploaded, only
< 1535141451 563874 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric : shouldn't.
< 1535141558 15898 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: ais and the other wiki admins work hard to enforce the conventions
< 1535141584 238398 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: by the way, I wanted to ask, where is your nick from, is there a canon pronunciation, and does the "iiv" part want to be a roman numeral?
< 1535141630 795180 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah this is asked sometimes!
< 1535141678 951194 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd note that tom7 also calls himself Tom Murphy VII, and explains why on his homepage
< 1535141689 480284 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but iiv isn't a real roman numeral
< 1535141692 829846 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's stranger
< 1535141695 53787 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :iv could still be
< 1535141703 559595 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which part is asked?
< 1535141738 265917 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people often ask these questions about nicks of various people online, so it's not too surprising
> 1535141758 578669 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ackermann function14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57452&oldid=57436 5* 03Oerjan 5* (-213) 10There's no real difference other than for negatives, so instead change the shorter one to use unsigned.
< 1535141866 341413 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually get asked if I named myself of the band called "Jonas Brothers" (no, no relation, I hadn't even heard of them until I started using this nick) or
< 1535141887 910542 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the "b_" means (nothing much, I just wanted a distinguishing prefix because I previously used "jonas" and still use it on some forums (in the broad sense), but I like the letter "b", it's not too common, and it is the only letter to appear twice in my real world name)
< 1535141919 233484 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They rarely ask how I pronounce it or why "jonas", but sometimes I volunteer to tell the latter anyway.
> 1535141929 703736 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57453&oldid=57433 5* 03Oerjan 5* (-138) 10This section is for proofs, let's not add unfinished stuff.
< 1535141956 911471 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although some forums have a general thread addressing every user in general for what their nick origin is, so that could count.
< 1535142021 646177 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :On perlmonks the respective thread was for a while called "the node that must not be linked" because it was too long and so put a large demand on the server when many people clicked on a link to it at the same time
< 1535142053 491934 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, now I wonder how easy it would be to make forum software which worked by editing a static HTML page whenever a comment was posted, incrementally
< 1535142057 912485 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since threads in that forum are hierarchical, but don't have a paging system, so they show every reply up to a certain depth when you load a thread in the default view
< 1535142141 312412 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION assumed arseniiv was a russian surname

< 1535142153 820875 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate interfaces that have a stupid paging system that shows too few entries of a list and are hard to navigate, in general, not just for forum threads. I understand why you need restrictions on how much you of a list show to conserve server and client resources, but many software are overdoing it.
< 1535142156 318960 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :originally, it came from my first name Arseni[i] and a letter from a patronymic (IDK why I did that, it was long ago), *but* it’s completely normal to read it as arseni⋅iv, as when it’s a Roman numeral (but what would it mean? It could mean anything or just itself, I don’t mean)
< 1535142156 430709 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for the pronunciation part, I myself use something like /arsʲenʲiˈiv/ (whch is somewhat strange as my name is stressed on the second syllable)
< 1535142216 628530 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: besides tom7, ais523 and sam512 use numerals in their nick. (sam512 has changed his nick to qntm since). it's sort of common to use numerals in nicks.
< 1535142241 193454 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: haha maybe there is one like this
< 1535142249 69529 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arsenii is a given name? interesting
< 1535142266 64471 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: did he say it's russian?
< 1535142272 17792 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait does qntm appear here?
< 1535142282 119785 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: he doesn't, and he's not related to esolangs
< 1535142289 319767 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1535142306 743781 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a pity he doesn’t
< 1535142326 425508 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: he's mostly known as a sci-fi writer who publishes short story series online, and has an old webcomic, his homepage is http://qntm.org/
< 1535142340 168624 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I know :)
< 1535142346 94399 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he has a presence on the internet and reacts to emails and comments and messages
< 1535142354 535387 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we’ve discussed this even(?)
< 1535142358 348430 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: well it looks russian, and he is.
< 1535142386 896700 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote him a email once, but I fear it was considered spam, as he hadn’t replied
< 1535142510 792043 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, maybe he only _used to_ react to emails, but he still gives his email address on https://qntm.org/contact and reacts to comments on his webpage. What he has redacted is (what I presume is) his real name.
< 1535142525 219442 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also the old alias "sam523" from qntm now.
< 1535142537 679554 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can still find traces to it in some links, but they're better hidden.
< 1535142569 199729 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes he seemed to write it was his name
< 1535142602 413829 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno why he does that, since people know him under both of those, and this makes it harder to use a web search to find his webpage based on them (though probably still not too hard)
< 1535142638 55638 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know them under those names from back when he used both and haven't started using qntm as a nick
< 1535142669 741017 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, David Madore uses three names too, but is pretty public about all three of them
< 1535142674 121632 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC he was posting Ed stories somewhere as if it was a diary, so a reader doesn’t suspect it’s a story (unles she have read other ones) and then woah! is it real?
< 1535142679 837273 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and even his middle name)(
< 1535142700 608190 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: um... what do you mean it is real? I'm quite sure they're fictional
< 1535142712 707369 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed they are
< 1535142721 199380 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't think he ever claimed they weren't, out of universe
< 1535142759 475605 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean he used a trope when eh I don’t know how it’s descripted in a small count of words
< 1535142772 97590 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he posted them on everything2 originally, and I think he still uses the nick sam512 there, plus he has a story about a robot called "sam512", and mentions his real name in his webcomic among others
< 1535142807 307141 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one about robot was after all that, wasn’t it?
< 1535142843 309672 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :after everything2 I mean
< 1535142860 894112 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw I don’t get hyperlinking in everything2
< 1535142868 236103 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it’s strange
< 1535142986 757127 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: it's an odd system, yes. but then consider how mandatory automatic hyperlinks to CamelCase words and recommended CamelCase page titles was quite popular back then, eg. the c3 wiki, tiki wiki, and IIRC Wikipedia at its start did that too, and it's a pretty stupid idea, and tiki wiki's stupid formatter rules make it even worse
< 1535143108 768430 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1535143111 706025 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, tiki wiki has several automatic formatting features that come up too often in normal text where you don't want them, but it's hard to escape them, because you have to use a bang prefix to escape them, and you have to know the precise formatter rules because if you add a bang prefix to anything that wouldn't be special formatting, it 
< 1535143111 812887 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :will show up as a literal bang,
< 1535143128 985437 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535143135 184485 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was to say, last time I’ve seen it, there were links to common words, and what they mean is a mystery until you follow them
< 1535143142 340769 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :these features being at least automatic CamelCase links, superscript formatting of text between carets, and some bracketed stuff
< 1535143186 203985 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although CamelCase links are definitely not a great idea, agree
< 1535143216 775722 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mediawiki has much fewer of these stupid formatting features that stand in your way, and much better ways to escape them, although formatting everything indented with spaces as pre blocks is probably a mistake in mediawiki
< 1535143244 607772 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bang bang my wiki shot me down
< 1535143247 48711 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: they wouldn't be such a bad idea if they were easier to escape, or if they only showed up when the page exists and when you're previewing a page you're editing.
< 1535143283 532507 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that no wiki is perfect, and most of them are very hard on the system administrators that have to run them, harder than on useres
< 1535143311 368610 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw how good do you think is Markdown (with common extras) for wikis?)
< 1535143375 26075 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I've seen many different types of wikis, including two different ones I used as an internal wiki at my previous job, although only from the user and a bit from the moderator side, not from the system administrator side
< 1535143380 828647 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of them was tiki wiki
< 1535143434 101621 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I don't much like Markdown, and I specifically dislike the StackExchange formatter, which is based on it but changed a lot, but it's better than some other wikis, and still better than tiki wiki
< 1535143500 285395 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I especially hate the variants of the formatter that StackExchange uses for chat lines and for comments resp (as opposed to questions and answers)
< 1535143590 123555 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like Markdown much either; I like the MediaWiki format
< 1535143647 788831 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I particularly like in MediaWiki is that it allows you to fall back to a large subset of HTML syntax for when its other syntax are hard to use for the formatting you want. I think zzo38 doesn't like this part.
< 1535143689 848477 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is convenient because the HTML syntax is sometimes more general, and many people already know enough of it to be able to use some of it on mediawiki without having to read that part of mediawiki manual.
< 1535143716 393602 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: this is also the intended way to do anything nontrivial in Markdown
< 1535143717 101915 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :StackExchange's Markdown supports only a smaller subset of HTML, although that is partly deliberate, to restrict what formatting you're allowed to use.
< 1535143722 735873 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1535143723 472822 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which defeats one of the main points of Markdown
< 1535143760 877170 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't know. I think it's a good idea for a wiki formatting language in general, it's just that Markdown's goals are stupid.
< 1535143765 773524 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO there are three major goals in a markup syntax: a) be easy/fast to write, b) be readable in the raw markup without rendering it (ideally the markup should look very like the end result), c) be fully general
< 1535143785 438985 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :markdown fails somewhat at all three
< 1535143799 153597 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although its main high point is a) as long as you're doing simple things
< 1535143822 692078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it might be interesting to create one that goes all-in on b) and c), perhaps even using things like trailing whitespace to disambiguate
< 1535143836 702273 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If (or when) I design a wiki syntax, then I'll make it mostly based on HTML, with some convenient shorthands like in mediawiki, but even more than mediawiki, because I'll add fewer convenience shortcuts, and I'll make the syntax of custom additions be similar in syntax to HTML.
< 1535143866 522917 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Everything2/Perlmonks formatters (one is derived from the other) are aligned to that goal, but the execution isn't perfect.
< 1535143894 320118 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, POD does very well at a), and better at b) and c) than Markdown does
< 1535143908 875777 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In particular, perlmonks has bracket links, which is good, and convenient custom syntax for both inline code and block code, which is good on a site that discusses a programming language,
< 1535143910 991655 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fossil wiki format doesn't support HTML comments or macros; MediaWiki does both, and I think such thing should be added into Fossil as well
< 1535143950 710230 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535143959 501674 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The system administrator could define macros by use of SQL codes and TH1 codes; if other users define macros then more restrictive SQL codes can be used.)
< 1535144036 612815 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the bracket links trigger too easily, which is bad, and the format was made before unicode was introduced, so its source can only contain cp1252, of which the gravest consequence is that you can't put non-cp1252 characters in code (inline or block).
< 1535144066 864796 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :<arseniiv> oh no it’s actually unlogged! <-- yeah esowiki or Mediawiki strips out most unicode from the announcements for some reason
< 1535144100 484306 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In perlmonks, bracket links, special tags "c" and "code" and "spoiler" and "readmore", that aren't just a subset of HTML with restrictions for technical and policy reasons.
< 1535144110 277009 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :umn
< 1535144128 262674 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/that aren't/are the only formatter features that aren't/
< 1535144206 75913 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And bracket links almost always trigger if you use a shortest sequence of left square bracket then square bracket.
< 1535144243 193598 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This causes problems especially in chat, because you have to escape indexes like [0] or [$x], which are common in perl code.
< 1535144255 527064 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use the convenient c and code tags for them, but still
< 1535144328 923571 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fossil wiki has the same problem, although you can use the <verbatim> command and you can also use HTML character entity codes.
< 1535144365 365205 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The <verbatim> command in Fossil wiki also can use numbers such as <verbatim-1> so that it can work even if the text contains </verbatim> or </verbatim-1> or whatever)
< 1535144379 108854 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also the popular bbcode, which is mostly popularized by phpbb now, and which has various different variants, which I think is also worse than mediawiki syntax but better than tikiwiki.
< 1535144388 19629 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that feature is good and should be added into MediaWiki and bbcode too.
< 1535144394 705834 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use multiple phpbb-based forums regularly, so I meet that a lot.
< 1535144490 692041 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: nice. TikiWiki has a sort of nice solution for code by the way: surround it with triple brackets. perlmonks's is similar: surround it with <c>...</c> or <code>...</code>, case insensitive but whitespace sensitive, and is automatically a code block if it has newlines in it, inline code otherwise.
< 1535144537 217034 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then what if the code contains triple brackets?
< 1535144550 825716 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For example, if you are showing a example of a TikiWiki code)
< 1535144594 568365 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think it has more tricky formatting mechanisms too, but I'm not sure. perhaps not in TikiWiki, but there would be in a well-designed wiki, and I think the triple braces aren't exclusive to tiki
< 1535144595 671690 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fossil wiki also allows you to disable all wiki formatting for a wiki page, in case you want to use text only.
< 1535144638 578904 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, that's useful for importing large amounts of data that is not wiki-formatted
< 1535144664 381367 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be even nicer if there was some automatic way to upgrade such a page to wiki-formatted so you can add formatted parts
< 1535144685 959381 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, automatically creating a wiki-format text that is mostly equivalent with the plain text
< 1535144701 241934 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that might need some tricky heuristics if you want to use it nicely
< 1535144724 278317 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you don't just want to escape the whole text usually, that makes it hard to add formatting
< 1535144725 722674 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could perhaps use an external program to do that, I suppose; the Fossil command-line interface can then be used together with it in order to post the changed file.
< 1535144820 16135 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope ais523 will eventually write a vcs that's better than the existing ones.
< 1535144837 327437 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But both designing and implementing one are very hard tasks.
< 1535144848 524452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got some distance with the designing
< 1535144853 47585 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if you don't do it from scratch, but use existing vcses.
< 1535144857 307778 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, I know.
< 1535144860 619842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but haven't started implementing and it'd take way too long
< 1535144869 807588 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I also know that both parts are difficult
< 1535144939 820124 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have multiple requirements that interact in ways that I don't even know how to define a combined semantics that satisfies all of them.
< 1535144995 543310 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh by the way, I'd like to add one more request to the vcs, and this one I think is easy to implement regardless everything else:
< 1535145086 552502 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :make the official reference documentation available in some collected form such as a manpage or directory of html page like mercurial does, but unlike svn, which only provides it as the outputs of various svn --help commands and unlike hg it's not even easy to discover which such outputs exist.
< 1535145134 955773 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to collect all the svn help outputs in the future, it seems feasable but haven't yet done it. I already know you need at least two depths of recursion from the root.
< 1535145167 840822 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hg help lists all the help pages right in the top-level hg help message, and collects all of it in the manpage. that's the Right Thing to do
< 1535145186 661268 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1535145241 347013 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even worse examples are ImageMagick and ffmpeg, but they partly do that because of a lot of pluggable parts developed partly independently (although distributed together) and not enough resources to document them properly
< 1535145306 423620 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the plus side, svn has a C api that is documented and is even more stable on the long therm than the command-line, plus lots of other features I like in it.
< 1535145313 861195 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: one thing I realised is that the name "scapegoat" is awkward as "sg" already exists
< 1535145319 23713 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like svn (Apache Subversion is the official name) in general
< 1535145328 563131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the obvious solution is a separate executable per command, "sg-commit" or whatever
< 1535145342 927767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or just symlinks to a single executable)
< 1535145343 453447 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: or you can use that as the developer codename, and give it a different official name
< 1535145347 616862 :xkapastel!~user@142.93.249.241 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1535145353 365339 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the sg that already exists?
< 1535145354 616575 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd also have the advantage of man pages working in a really simple way
< 1535145359 599274 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: like su but for groups
< 1535145364 505707 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1535145366 265387 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1535145377 241198 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: as long as you have a single-level index manpage, that's fine
< 1535145403 568178 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowadays very few people have permission setups complex enough for sg to be useful, although it is necessary in those cases where you need it
< 1535145415 917313 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, if possible, ALSO make the docs available as an online webpage, which is useful for windows users, because it's hard to find a working man reader for win32
< 1535145439 467005 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aimake will generate man pages on UNIX and HTML files on Windows from the same sources
< 1535145463 439994 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's fine if you have a 1-depth index for them too in both formats
< 1535145536 847838 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: git in theory has its manpages online as HTML, but they messed it up, and some automatically generated parts of the manpages are missing from it. perl has made the same mistake with the perl core and cpan, but there's now a separate http://perldoc.perl.org/ webpage associated with them
< 1535145543 171560 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which fixes that mistake
< 1535145636 912608 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, a lot of software, including perl and svn, has some docs that they claim are only for developers of the project itself and so are only distributed in the source code and not collected together with the main docs, but some of which would actually be useful for non-devs and would be easy to add to the normal set of docs
< 1535145666 570112 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, that's partly unavoidable, because sometimes you want developer docs and there's a lot of unmaintained junk in it
< 1535145670 589678 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux also does that
< 1535145678 608676 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still, you have to be careful with it
< 1535145710 990954 :cods6!~cods@175.7.166.83 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535145755 93419 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least since svn is a version control system, it's also self-hosting now, and they run a web service for reading its official version control repository, and you can see the developer docs there
< 1535145856 616223 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :SQLite does put the developer documents that are also useful for other uses too are also made available outside of the source codes, such as the document of the SQLite file format and the document of the VDBE opcodes.
< 1535145859 674475 :xkapastel!~user@142.93.249.241 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535145884 469958 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I've said this already, and I don't have an immediate need for this, but it would be nice if you put a clear declaration into your official version of ayacc that it is distributed under some free software license, just like you did with uncursed and aimake
< 1535145893 495825 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the file format isn't just internals, though, it's also important for interoperability
< 1535145919 924069 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I'm not sure if the license on ayacc is decided yet? I'm trying to remember
< 1535145929 922668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no logical reason I can think of not to make it GPLv3 though
< 1535145941 435810 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that, plus the file format is important to estimate some things about how much disk space and disk access and cpu certain workloads use
< 1535145944 909499 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, I have a job right now (for complicated technical reasons I only work on ayacc while unemployed)
< 1535145982 105544 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: last I've seen, it wasn't, but I think you have made a declaration that's somewhere in the #esoteric logs, which could sort of work in a pinch
< 1535146001 532840 :cods6!~cods@175.7.166.83 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1535146012 595047 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ayacc declares that all code snippets that go into the generated output are under public domain,
< 1535146023 963086 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but doesn't declare a license for the rest of the code
< 1535146027 280458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's obviously necessary, unless it's implicit
< 1535146034 537943 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I would have written it out of habit
< 1535146056 642079 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and that declaration still helps
< 1535146067 417801 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it lets me more easily distribute a program that uses vanilla ayacc
< 1535146084 258336 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can distribute the ayacc output with it so people don't have to run it
< 1535146109 215728 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I have such a program yet, but still
< 1535146124 180080 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even for what I want to write, I could probably use bison
< 1535146134 367240 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I prefer ayacc
< 1535146262 824284 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bison/ayacc polyglot is fairly easy
< 1535146273 735727 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although ayacc has some non-bison features you might want to use
< 1535146323 816285 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and ayacc generates nicer code output, and ayacc is easier to modify in certain ways that I might want to change, such as adding a new output language or language variant, or adding an extension to its syntax
< 1535146328 831543 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was considering both
< 1535146339 19908 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only in vague plans that I might not ever do
< 1535146347 305248 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the output isn't as nice as I'd like yet
< 1535146352 702910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also probably slower than bison noutput
< 1535146368 678222 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :candidates for language variants are rust and stackless C
< 1535146403 294582 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for the extensions, I'll probably have to talk to you about what's feasable and what isn't already possible in ayacc before I try
< 1535146541 797758 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sort of thinking an extension where I have a language where some production rules are such that they cause shift-reduce conflicts, and I want to be able to write a proof whose checking is assisted by ayacc that despite this, you can express "any valid parse tree" in the language with some easy automatable transformations of the input, turning i
< 1535146541 925700 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :t to a subset of the language that has no shift-reduce conflicts but can still express anything.
< 1535146563 700934 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such production rules would be ones that allow eliding parenthesis and similar markers to disambiguate precedence.
< 1535146597 989500 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think something like that is possible, but I don't have the details completely thought out.
< 1535146664 848712 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems like an interesting goal but one that's quite different from ayacc's, so if you added it to ayacc you'd essentially just have two different programs bolted together
< 1535146666 91667 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In particular, it's easy to remove the production rules I mark and test if the remaining language has no shift-reduce conflicts, but you also need a way to annotate why you believe it can express any parse tree and check its proof,
< 1535146681 183654 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although unlike bison, ayacc does have the concept of a production being a no-op, e.g. "(a)" and "a" being equivalent
< 1535146682 169602 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ideally also generate a program that does the transformation on any input.
< 1535146774 675248 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't think it's that different from ayacc, since ayacc already must be able to verify that a language has no shift-reduce conflicts (with false positives, but here too I want to support only proofs of specific form), and it can already parse the description of a grammar to some form it can manipulate, so automatically removing some marke
< 1535146774 849152 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :d productions would be easy if you extended the syntax.
< 1535146788 630484 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the easy part. The hard part might still be difficult to design and implement.
< 1535146826 796573 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I think what would probably be most usable for this would be that, when a conflict is automatically resolved, ayacc could determine whether there was always a way to force the conflict into the other resolution
< 1535146830 715286 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might not be ayacc's goal, but since ayacc has readable code for these tasks, it would help implementing this.
< 1535146836 500159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that'd be useful even with manually resolved conflicts, I guess
< 1535146852 693680 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm thinking of various manual annotations in the grammar for this.
< 1535146857 528633 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't have to be full automatic.
< 1535146878 87948 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could also have escape hatches for ambiguities that you can't prove with the annotation language, but prove manually.
< 1535146970 323074 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, an annotation would be that I claim that a particular production like {expr -> expr '+' expr} can always be disambiguated by putting parenthesis around it.
< 1535146993 20079 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps the report could say something like "'expr PLUS expr . TIMES': shift/reduce ambiguity resolved as SHIFT, alternative available as '( expr PLUS expr ) . TIMES'"
< 1535146994 42149 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where in the annotation I tell which "parenthesis" that is.
< 1535147056 939889 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, in very simple cases it might be possible to annotate, but I want it on grammars more trivial than just infix operators with different precedence and parenthesis, for in such simple languages, a proof by hand is also easy
< 1535147069 979995 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/possible to annotate/possible to automate/
< 1535147081 291612 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I'm thinking about this idea: look for a no-op rule that can be placed on the LHS in order to make it reduce rather than shift
< 1535147117 122691 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing it the other way round (i.e. to make it shift rather than reduce) is harder because ayacc thinks left to right, so it doesn't have any concept of the place where the closing paren would have to go
< 1535147134 774697 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need it for cases where from the grammar it's not even obvious that a certain construct means the same as another construct, because it's not implemented by a pass-through rule, either because it's not a primitive construct but a consequence of multiple rules, or because we add debug information that shouldn't change semantics.
< 1535147164 327144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I think automation would have to rely on pass-through rules
< 1535147170 413881 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of debug information, you can write a no-op rule in a way that ayacc doesn't know is a no-op rule
< 1535147172 627136 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not getting ayacc to parse and understand arbitrary semantic actions ;-)
< 1535147203 957090 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other case comes up for uglier things like some C++ ambiguities, although C++ might be too ugly to produce such an annotated proof.
< 1535147234 509604 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ has reduce/reduce ambiguities and other things that are hard to handle with an LR parser.
< 1535147254 843102 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ syntax is terribly complicated to even parse correctly these days.
< 1535147261 240268 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even compilers don't always agree on how it works
< 1535147274 122462 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it a full LR parser or a LALR parser? (I don't like C++ syntax; it is too messy)
< 1535147278 889073 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1137
< 1535147279 604934 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1137: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
< 1535147297 794991 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't understand how a certain template syntax construct is supposed to be parsed, although I think the new versions of the standard clarify it, the standard is just too complicated.
< 1535147304 98595 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: oh nice! let me look
< 1535147312 596605 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Giant is on a roll
> 1535147315 578660 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57454&oldid=57448 5* 03Ais523 5* (+248) 10/* Power */ PDA without parens
< 1535147358 747330 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... why don't I see the page title in the esowiki bot's change announcement
< 1535147405 403281 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :esowiki isn't very good at Unicode
< 1535147442 85056 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see
< 1535147442 208332 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it does not support Unicode, then use the percent encoding of the URL.
< 1535147452 792618 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the URL is fine
< 1535147457 930988 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the page title that is wrong
< 1535147469 314425 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1535147500 755475 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can make an URL to a mediawiki page without even mentioning any escaped form of its name, in at least two ways: by its unique page ID and the change ID of any version of it
< 1535147512 30440 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this URL does the latter
< 1535147556 501709 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is handy for pages of whose escaped title would be too long
< 1535147609 419939 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535147609 930663 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1535147650 807574 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those two IDs are mentioned in the mediawiki dumps and the api.php output and you can refer to them in the api.php interface, so there's a high chance that they can be preserved or at least tracked to a fork or dump of a wiki
< 1535147663 177401 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mediawiki does a lot of things well
< 1535147689 54278 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pity it's implemented in php :-)
< 1535147709 597087 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was implemented in php before php even became a sane programming language
< 1535147736 111045 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno why anyone would do that, I guess they didn't know that mediawiki will be so popular and have so many plugins
< 1535147798 780743 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535147798 860112 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1535147817 195794 :LKoen_!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
< 1535147887 399367 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would want a SQLite virtual table extension to access remote MediaWiki files. (You can then make a copy of the wiki by the use of INSERT INTO ... SELECT command.)
< 1535147898 693816 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535147898 800731 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1535147931 578177 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you could write such an extension, at least for mediawiki instances where the api.php is enabled for at least read use
< 1535147941 319030 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not all mediawikis have it enabled)
< 1535147958 19796 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535147958 141120 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1535147984 53775 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously you couldn't access data that's hidden by administrators, such as user passwords and deleted versions, but that's on purpose
< 1535147986 443688 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would want to support incremental updates, but I don't know if the MediaWiki API supports that.
< 1535148010 441303 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know of course there is no need copying user passwords (or any other user data other than user pages, since your own copy will have its own users).
< 1535148023 711814 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535148023 766157 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1535148046 152676 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: otoh I believe there are already tools for MediaWiki that allow you to copy a remote wiki, and even output it into a new MediaWiki
< 1535148050 853803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the MediaWiki API basically just does queries against the database, but from a predefined subset of queries (those which won't cause excess database load)
< 1535148066 489014 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"batch" operations are supposed to be done on downloadable database dumps
< 1535148066 743767 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535148066 809519 :xa0!~zeta@unaffiliated/uoy QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1535148075 69014 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides api.php, there's also the older [[special:export]] and [[special:import]] , but they can do somewhat less
< 1535148088 967021 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :ais523
< 1535148104 371934 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 MODE #esoteric +b :xa0!*@*$##fix_your_connection
< 1535148163 382507 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 MODE #esoteric -o :ais523
< 1535148175 479142 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are still widely used for moving pages between wikis
< 1535148180 43052 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :say if they got created in the wrong place
< 1535148186 747752 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, and now some of the bigger wikimedia projects also have incremental dumps to preserve server resources (although you could already simulate them on client side with api.php); plus a so-called "tool server", which are servers that have a frequently updated decompressed copy of the projects and where they give shell access to people they
< 1535148186 899150 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric : believe can perform useful tasks
< 1535148206 326547 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes you only want a few files, so using API can be used too
< 1535148220 446397 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, and they're also useful for simple batch downloading of some pages for analysis or conversion
< 1535148243 23168 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but the api.php can do much more, and has a reasonably well documented and usable interface, at least for the read-only part
< 1535148248 594914 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't yet used the write part I think
< 1535148328 279715 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like how it's called "the API", since there's nothing really exclusive in it, it's just a very good coherent subset of API that exists, so I call it the "api.php interface"
< 1535148349 795065 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: well it's the API because it's the official public endpoint for automated queries
< 1535148350 628120 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but naming something "the API" is a fault some other projects commit too
< 1535148353 885506 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what an API is
< 1535148376 399445 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can be called "remote API" maybe is better
< 1535148392 898893 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the dumps are also an official public endpoint for automated queries
< 1535148442 264401 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact index.php and its CGI parameters are well-documented, and it puts a lot of extra info in invisible HTML stuff, so it's also an official public endpoint
< 1535148447 443711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not interactive, which I guess is part of a requirement for an API and I simply didn't realise it until writing this sentence
< 1535148462 715861 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus there's the printable format which also helps and is quite official
< 1535148493 731659 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: perhaps the interactive part is reasonable, it's hard to call it "application" otherwise
< 1535148751 971020 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcb1dmnmcpyztw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1535149226 256989 :woddf225!~woddf2@host86-179-54-68.range86-179.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535149403 25072 :woddf225!~woddf2@host86-179-54-68.range86-179.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1535149593 90687 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed PART :#esoteric
< 1535149977 676069 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`aglist 611
< 1535149978 340515 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :aglist 611: b_jonas shachaf
< 1535149993 637030 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think listing on every update is necessary, but maybe when there hasn't been one in a while.
< 1535150206 309829 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grwp axiometric
< 1535150207 876473 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1535150236 145399 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit
< 1535150774 487409 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
< 1535150904 217697 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I don't think the semantics of "continue" in the C standard is correct.
< 1535150954 944428 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: It says that in "while (/* ... */) { /* ... */ continue; /* ... */ contin: ; }", "continue" is equivalent to "goto contin".
< 1535150974 967019 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what do you mean by not correct?
< 1535150975 59172 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if the /* ... */ after "continue" declares a variable-length array, that's invalid.
< 1535150986 302769 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, you're right.
< 1535150993 97754 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean it's not what they're intending, and what everyone implements.
< 1535150994 579876 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: and isn't continue also invalid then?
< 1535151017 508033 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so?
< 1535151029 233866 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it is according to the standard.
< 1535151066 473525 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never mind what I said about correctness.
< 1535151091 179975 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C really doesn't like to have implicit destructors when a variable or temporary goes out of scope, and that's one of the main differences from C++, and exiting from the scope of a variable length array would require calling an implicit destructor in the implementation
< 1535151133 897652 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if expect to repeatedly enter that scope in a loop, so the variable length array has to be recreated an arbitrary number of times with different sizes
< 1535151161 446486 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally at the end of a function, you can free the space for all vararg arrays as easily as you free temp stack space for ordinary variables
< 1535151167 640534 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously this depends on the target arch
< 1535151168 857401 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still
< 1535151208 183692 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :vararg arrays?
< 1535151220 8962 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :variadic length arrays, sorry
< 1535151310 628452 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, a compiled function might still need to explicitly save and restore some registers, but most cpus that C target are built around that concept and many give convenient ways to do that
< 1535151328 965465 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 doesn't, sadly
< 1535151360 431396 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it has implementation optimizations for saving registers to the stack in some ways
< 1535151382 417216 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and addressing modes to access the stack easily
< 1535151387 914940 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the actual meaning most people imagine and most compilers implement for "continue" would be closer to "while (/* ... */) { { /* ... */ continue; /* ... */ } contin: ; }
< 1535151388 221222 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's still something
< 1535151413 586070 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what's the difference?
< 1535151428 642994 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C that is, not C++
< 1535151432 235029 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The extra block around the body.
< 1535151437 909114 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1535151439 738924 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but what's the semantic difference
< 1535151456 837563 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@96-85-206-172-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535151464 116525 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it declares a variable-length then its lifetime is the inner block
< 1535151465 715975 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :array
< 1535151484 815042 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but wouldn't the lifetime end immediately after the goto anyway?
< 1535151497 65068 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :goto after the declaration of a variable-length array isn't permitted.
< 1535151545 752053 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's a good reason for that, but I don't really like C VLAs in first place
< 1535151585 220242 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :many people don't like VLAs in C, so I think the people who insisted on adding it had to make some reasonable compromises for how much they can do
< 1535151605 925903 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like it either
< 1535151624 782653 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU C has zero-length arrays though, which are sometimes helpful.
< 1535151671 474618 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I especially don't like stack-allocated VLAs, and only somewhat don't like VLA function parameters
< 1535151709 996974 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: zero-length arrays are nice in theory, and it's good that rust supports them and other zero-length objects specially, but I don't think they're a good idea in C,
< 1535151754 936036 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because allowing them causes incompatibilities in existing programs that use the nonexistance of zero-length arrays as a replacement for the newer static_assert, such as in macros
< 1535151792 607670 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can still use negative length arrays for that, and some other portable tricks, but old programs don't know that they have to
< 1535151808 805743 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :programs targeting only newer compilers should use static_assert of course
< 1535151815 44880 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can tell GCC to compile in the old mode if you want to though
< 1535151817 211811 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but C wants to preserve compatibility hard
< 1535151823 240875 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, that's true, but still
< 1535151829 456238 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an error that's easy to make accidentally
< 1535151841 427066 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hard to detect automatically
< 1535151870 416091 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not even easy to put a warning that catches it, even in a smart compiler, with it mostly coming from macros
< 1535151953 424881 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lesser problem is that it also breaks some invariants that some macros might try to rely on, such as that every object has a sizeof at least 1.
< 1535152030 949311 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's also why maxint_t is a bad design: it has to be fixed in an abi, and can't be increased when the language or abi adds a larger integer type, which is why even though gnu cc has 128-bit integers, maxint_t is 64-bit.
< 1535152064 433718 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, technically neither contradicts the standard, since they can just claim that 128-bit integers aren't an integer type, it's just a type similar to integer types, but still
< 1535152123 662389 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the C++ standard has it right, it puts an extra block around the loop body before the label.
< 1535152193 546273 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a similar smaller problem with the current proposal for making void a real type in programs: it allows programs to overload the comma operator with void as an argument and a user-defined class as another argument, but existing macros or generic functions can rely on that such overloads can't exist, and using the comma operator with a void va
< 1535152193 546326 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lue (in either order) is useful in generic code.
< 1535152204 171428 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is also something that you can work around in new code, but it's ugly.
< 1535152227 434646 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Luckily that one could be fixed by changing the proposal slightly to forbid such overloads, but the current proposal doesn't do that.
< 1535152271 618129 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: like I said, that's because there's a genuine goal difference between C and C++ about implicit destructors. C wants to forbid them, C++ wants to allow them as much as it can
< 1535152296 38010 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1535152333 945239 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm still not sure what difference the inner braces make in C++
< 1535152373 212466 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at least it's plausible to me that C++ may have a difference there that isn't present in C
< 1535152397 31368 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean?
< 1535152440 584534 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The difference is that any destructors for variables declared in the inner block will run at the end of that block.
< 1535152466 53883 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well, that's a bad description.
< 1535152469 984490 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, scope braces in C++ affect implicit destructors of variables and temporaries, and C doesn't have such implicit destructors, so maybe I'm missing some obscure case in C++ where the braces matter
< 1535152476 980137 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The difference is that it doesn't goto past any variable declaration.
< 1535152491 765980 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so the problem is _constructors_, not destructors
< 1535152503 135673 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's both.
< 1535152516 874088 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The destructors get run at the end of the block, so you can't have the variables uninitialized.
< 1535152532 161089 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C also doesn't have variable constructors, other than for variadic-length arrays, and so doesn't forbid gotoing past a variable declaration, whereas C++ forbids that
< 1535152559 694104 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't destructors already be ran because of the outer close braces?
< 1535152568 688880 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :skipping constructors I can see
< 1535152647 152421 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm confused.
< 1535152724 104851 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you write "{ A a; if (p) goto exit; B b; } exit:", then when p is true, it'll run A(), B(), ~B(), ~A()
< 1535152733 232655 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And when p is false, it'll run A(), ~A()
< 1535152735 69142 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right?
< 1535152777 477010 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you've already convinced me that it's useful to add the extra brace in C++
< 1535152783 379895 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1535152793 716088 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then the same issue exists in C with VLAs.
< 1535152815 560806 :laerling!~laerling@unaffiliated/laerling QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1535152851 358777 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just still claim it's not useful in C, because it probably only makes a difference for VLAs and some nonstandard extensions, and there's a good reason to forbid continuing a loop with a VLA declared in it in C because that would need an implicit destructor in practice
< 1535152900 256178 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess you're right that it's already allowed with the inner braces in C
< 1535152905 828901 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so perhaps it could be allowed with continue too
< 1535152910 244293 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know
< 1535152930 535091 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could ask on ##C, they're friendly and good at such questions
< 1535152935 249158 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on freenode that is
< 1535152939 420388 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :##C is friendly?
< 1535152950 202506 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to newbies
< 1535152958 747205 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and doesn't always answer every question you ask
< 1535152974 859610 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it usually doesn't hate people who are not newbies to IRC for asking questions about the C standard
< 1535152996 41730 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I trust you know the general guidelines about asking a question on IRC
< 1535153013 231753 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't like off-topic questions or newbies that don't keep common IRC ethics
< 1535153030 618902 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they don't answer every question, but that would be hard to expect from even the best channels
< 1535153070 908160 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, don't ask questions directly about differences between C++ and C in either ##C or ##C++, they don't like each other's language
< 1535153096 953637 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :many of the regulars passionately hate the other language
< 1535153130 308678 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it probably makes sense to ask this question above here in #esoteric
< 1535153148 383819 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you could phrase it in such a way that it's only about C vlas without mentioning C++, and ask in ##C
< 1535153207 921185 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :both channels also don't like questions about nonstandard extensions or libraries that aren't the standard library or system-dependent questions
< 1535153231 842660 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they want to think that the standards exist in a vacuum and don't care about practical work in the language
< 1535153251 685213 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there are questions you can't easily ask anywhere because it's off-topic between the cracks on every good channel
< 1535153296 734560 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, there are some other channels on freenode that help in some of those questions
< 1535153329 304754 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but some questions are still hard to find a good channel for
< 1535153346 681659 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why channels that are geeky but not very on-topic are useful
< 1535153354 180127 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :##C and ##C++ aren't like that
< 1535153385 408281 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric is, and so is #rubik
< 1535153393 596639 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#rubik is better for vim questions than ##vim actually
< 1535153408 159783 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, perhaps
< 1535153411 238289 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :##vim isn't bad either
< 1535153440 68007 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the flip side, some channels are so off-topic that it's hard to get answers to on-topic questions on them
< 1535153472 451031 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like #esoteric?
< 1535153526 551902 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no, #esoteric is relatively good for getting answers about esoteric programming languages
< 1535153530 43369 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to some channels
< 1535153557 873631 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you tried #English ? it rarely answers questions about the English language, and keeps talking about world politics and stuff like that instead
< 1535153571 192448 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, I mean ##English
< 1535153606 887195 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric and #rubik are at least 80% off-topic talk, but it still handles on-topic questions well
< 1535153619 52926 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@96-85-206-172-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1535153649 34716 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a good thing, it means the channels are useful as a community, not just for answering questions about a topic
< 1535153657 981311 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always like when internet forums serve such a purpose
< 1535153675 85868 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and many others do, and those are the places I frequent
< 1535153684 533123 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, some of those obviously
< 1535153687 113823 :wob_jonas!b03f1898@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all of those
< 1535153754 713849 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
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< 1535156657 772955 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1535157933 677200 :digitalcold!~redacted@unaffiliated/digitalcold QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1535158995 751995 :nfd9001!nfd9001@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/nfd9001 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535159374 979663 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnMEI4aoUfo
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> 1535161633 733373 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57455&oldid=57444 5* 03A 5* (+41) 10/* Categorization */
> 1535161772 183297 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda Calculus to Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57456&oldid=57434 5* 03A 5* (+23) 10
> 1535161790 463704 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda Calculus to Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57457&oldid=57456 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10Mispelling
> 1535162012 24332 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda Calculus to Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57458&oldid=57457 5* 03A 5* (+37) 10
< 1535162055 819380 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: TRIGGER CHICKEN
> 1535162078 532688 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda Calculus to Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57459&oldid=57458 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10
> 1535162234 595282 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda Calculus to Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57460&oldid=57459 5* 03A 5* (+200) 10
< 1535162319 36570 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh cool, a Commodore BASIC quine:
< 1535162321 22435 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 LIST
< 1535162372 448960 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.nyx.net/~gthompso/quine.htm calls that one a cheat
< 1535162416 470382 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many interactive BASIC interpreters support that, I think?
< 1535162442 249365 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not very familiar with BASIC, I'm mostly learning due to my unexpected interest in Commodore 64
< 1535162695 724971 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1535163227 7068 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda Calculus to Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57461&oldid=57460 5* 03A 5* (+448) 10
> 1535163260 295933 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda Calculus to Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57462&oldid=57461 5* 03A 5* (-28) 10
> 1535163326 109494 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57463&oldid=57453 5* 03A 5* (+138) 10I am finished now. (Just un-checked)
< 1535163600 389627 :Roedy10!~Roedy@mpd-2612.tvcom.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535163676 794828 :Roedy10!~Roedy@mpd-2612.tvcom.ru QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1535163701 731010 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone wrote a virus for an OS for Commodore 64
< 1535163709 110495 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I have not provided an executable for obvious reasons; it you want to try it out, you'll have to figure out a way to build it yourself."
> 1535163760 493747 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda Calculus to Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57464&oldid=57462 5* 03A 5* (+80) 10/* Bored? Let's enjoy an example */
> 1535163858 724396 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda Calculus to Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57465&oldid=57464 5* 03A 5* (+86) 10/* Try Again */
< 1535164049 569523 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to add your own commands into the Z: drive in DOSBOX?
< 1535164090 932820 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought those were hardcoded?
> 1535164101 247253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda Calculus to Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57466&oldid=57465 5* 03A 5* (+19) 10Check again for bad english
< 1535164135 30213 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you modify DOSBox itself I guess
< 1535164244 571935 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, here's the area where Z: programs are added
< 1535164245 56557 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/Henne/dosbox-svn/blob/ac06986809899ea5f922cb29a194e0770169e1ad/src/dos/dos_programs.cpp#L1634
> 1535164292 238934 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57467&oldid=57463 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10And a mispelled word
< 1535164320 657409 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to add my own files; is it possible to add another drive and add into the PATH automatically in all DOS sessions, to add my own commands?
< 1535164353 184349 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's much easier
< 1535164364 694699 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dosbox.conf has an autoexec section
< 1535164365 287764 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the files are external programs rather than being built-in commands
< 1535164485 208948 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What will DOSBOX do if a DOS program tries to set the date/time?
< 1535164485 514756 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=23611 see the third post
< 1535164499 343160 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Are you sure that you want to? It's easier to just add PATH=Z:\;C:\DOSUTILS to the [autoexec] portion of your DOSBox configuration file, where C:\DOSUTILS refers to a real subfolder on a mounted "c drive." "
< 1535164515 218490 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And you can add mount commands there as well)
< 1535164561 584885 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that can be done, OK
< 1535164638 640807 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is printer redirection possible in DOSBOX? Is it possible to connect COM1/LPT1/etc to files and TCP/IP connections?
< 1535164748 691270 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also is there any way to perform a video memory dump?
< 1535164778 679241 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOSBox supports turning some old protocol (IPX) into TCP/IP connections, not sure how.
< 1535164788 322800 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Printing's probably easier
< 1535164988 408939 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean just to write the printer output to a file, and then an external program can be used to convert ESC/P to DVI or whatever is needed.
< 1535166360 802297 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1535169126 56731 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's also not possible to store a GEOS file on a remote internet site because chances are that site knows nothing about how a GEOS file is constructed."
< 1535177892 246886 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1535183247 569833 :Geeky_Bear!~Geeky_Bea@2402:800:6142:29a5:cc00:5fdc:e30:58cd QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
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> 1535185849 389365 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda Calculus to Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57468&oldid=57466 5* 03A 5* (+194) 10Some comments
> 1535186049 279924 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda Calculus to Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57469&oldid=57468 5* 03A 5* (+243) 10
> 1535186090 288622 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda Calculus to Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57470&oldid=57469 5* 03A 5* (-8) 10
< 1535186215 950785 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcb1dmnmcpyztw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535186450 249621 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
> 1535186468 204222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda Calculus to Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57471&oldid=57470 5* 03A 5* (+8) 10Undo revision 57470 by [[Special:Contributions/A|A]] ([[User talk:A|talk]])
> 1535186481 492554 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda Calculus to Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57472&oldid=57471 5* 03A 5* (-243) 10Undo revision 57469 by [[Special:Contributions/A|A]] ([[User talk:A|talk]])
> 1535186503 35607 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda Calculus to Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57473&oldid=57472 5* 03A 5* (-194) 10Undo revision 57468 by [[Special:Contributions/A|A]] ([[User talk:A|talk]])
< 1535186549 444159 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535187275 718461 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535187971 217165 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think DOSBox is the best way to emulate Commodore DOS
< 1535188061 103553 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1535188140 728314 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
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< 1535193244 916022 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@check \xs -> reverse xs == xs
< 1535193247 360353 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : +++ OK, passed 100 tests.
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< 1535213705 688952 :wob_jonas!b03f1802@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.2 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1535213940 190224 :wob_jonas!b03f1802@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't really know much about dosbox. I only used it to play some DOS games, for which dosbox is apparently a popular choice.
< 1535213957 359078 :wob_jonas!b03f1802@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I used bochs, a whole machine emulator, with MS-DOS, to make termbot, which if you can recall was an IRC bot that connected a DOS machine (with two compilers and a line editor and a few other software) onto an IRC channel, giving users full control (root access) to the DOS machine.
< 1535213982 677071 :wob_jonas!b03f1802@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't run it much, because I'm afraid people can abuse bugs in the emulator to break out of it.
< 1535214004 492955 :sleepnap!~thomas@174-124-223-13.dyn.centurytel.net QUIT :Client Quit
< 1535214011 565081 :wob_jonas!b03f1802@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that one had the virtual machine's serial port connected to my script, and my script transferred data between that and IRC.
< 1535214045 385929 :wob_jonas!b03f1802@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can show you how exactly I did it, including the source code of the connecting script and the configuration for bochs if you want. I won't give the full hard disk contents.
< 1535214165 292158 :wob_jonas!b03f1802@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eventually I used two hard disks, a boot hard disk and a data hard disk, so that if you get the computer into a bricked state, which isn't too hard by just writing random stuff to the raw disk image, then you can use a command from IRC to reset the contents of the boot harddisk but preserve the data hard disk. That's not foolproof, because I suspec
< 1535214165 426760 :wob_jonas!b03f1802@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :t it might be possible to mess up the partition table of the data hard disk in such a way that DOS won't boot, but just zeroing it won't work.
< 1535214183 117372 :wob_jonas!b03f1802@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any case, I could reset the data hard disk manually if someone manages to do that.
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< 1535215187 423742 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there anything in Linux like a /dev/camera to access a camera that you can do such like:  ff-shrink 3 < /dev/camera | ffjpeg > out.jpeg   or whatever
< 1535215937 709786 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535215979 220545 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
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< 1535216286 691642 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
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< 1535216849 201329 :wob_jonas!b03f1802@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sorry, I don't know much about local camera interfaces.
< 1535216861 701871 :wob_jonas!b03f1802@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1535216864 473716 :wob_jonas!b03f1802@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know anything
< 1535217443 156719 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the relevant device file is /dev/video0 but at least cat doesn't seem to be able to read it, even when running as root
< 1535217483 204517 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you need a special program to access it?
< 1535217507 44311 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can dd access it?
< 1535217543 254200 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading up on this, apparently dd doesn't work either, but programs like ffmpeg can read it
< 1535217558 126244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my suspicion is that it only works with very specific buffer sizes, or something like that
< 1535217647 302750 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's a V4L2 device, it works by doing a lot of specific ioctl's.
< 1535217775 80118 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right, ioctls
< 1535217805 401816 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :webcams are quite different from many input devices because they continuously capture video while turned on, as opposed to recording input reactively when they receive it
< 1535218847 311864 :wob_jonas!b03f1802@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :webcomes are quite different from other webcams too
< 1535219081 444159 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? webcome
< 1535219082 631307 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :webcome? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1535219113 550509 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(what’s a webcome?)
< 1535219565 410204 :Fogity!~Fogity@hr-sgs.kvi.sgsnet.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
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< 1535223117 300801 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1535224288 152252 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I could run a Brainfuck interpreter inside a C64's floppy drive
< 1535224348 595648 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can a C64's floppy drive be reprogrammed?
< 1535224378 333519 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, but it does have its own CPU apparently
< 1535224548 287189 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :modern hard drives are powerful enough to run fairly complex programs
< 1535224566 225049 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a C64 is much older but should still be able to run BF, almost anything with a CPU can
< 1535224925 340337 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still can't get over the notion of drives having their own CPUs
< 1535224951 664235 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "DOS" being an OS that sits on a floppy drive instead of being a silly name for an OS that's run to operate a full computer system
< 1535225208 487666 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :....I just realized how hypocritical it is to marvel at a computer that's effectively inside a keyboard, while using my laptop.
< 1535225331 181567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :small/low-powered computers are really cheap nowadays
< 1535225340 455065 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for embedded work, I mean
< 1535225374 431321 :impomatic!~digital_w@host86-144-19-142.range86-144.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535225431 223577 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get a small microcontroller for less than a dollar
< 1535225438 226686 :wob_jonas!b03f1802@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. many webcomes have a powerful computer in them too
< 1535225527 999802 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1535225732 889320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: here's an example of a CPU which costs $1 exactly if bought in bulk: https://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/PIC32MM0064GPL028
< 1535225798 754761 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :64 kilobytes of flashable ROM to hold the program, 8 kilobytes of RAM, and a range of low-level peripherals built right into it and directly accessible
< 1535225838 394519 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The CPU in the 1541 disk drive is actually pretty much the same thing as what's in the C64 itself (a 1 MHz 6502; the C64 has a 6510, but that's not too different).
< 1535225840 267308 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a 25 MHz clock rate when not running in low-power mode
< 1535225895 892634 :wob_jonas!b03f1802@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like during reading a sector?
< 1535225914 685981 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently if you're running it completely standalone it only has an 8 MHz clock rate because that's how fast the built-in clock runs
< 1535225928 932675 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like microcontrollers, they're like computers with built-in motherboards and peripherals
< 1535226244 157459 :wob_jonas!b03f1802@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like them, but they're everywhere. There's one in my debit card, there's several in my cheap mobile phone, there's one or more in the cheap hands-free headset, so that's several right that I carry with me.
< 1535226262 724356 :wob_jonas!b03f1802@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only really like big computers with lots of performance.
< 1535226337 14753 :wob_jonas!b03f1802@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.2 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1535226392 374420 :wob_jonas!b03f1802@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.2 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535226487 708532 :wob_jonas!b03f1802@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's probably one in the battery of the mobile phone too, and the battery of my camera, and several in the camera, including one in the micro-SD card that's in it, and one in the spare micro-SD card I carry with the camera, and there's probably two in my electric toothbrush and one or two in this keyboard I'm typing on and one in the mouse,
< 1535226538 542115 :wob_jonas!b03f1802@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's definitely a few in the mini tower I use as the amplifier between the computer and the speakers,
< 1535226589 233573 :wob_jonas!b03f1802@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's only the ones I know of, because who know, maybe there's tiny ones in the bacteria I drink from my water bottle too
< 1535226633 831703 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I only really like big computers with lots of performance. => and who doesn’t!
< 1535226658 260425 :wob_jonas!b03f1802@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I forgot to mention the TFT display
< 1535226666 478953 :wob_jonas!b03f1802@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one has a computer in it too
< 1535226749 922277 :wob_jonas!b03f1802@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the remote control for the mini tower, and the three led lighting controllers in my house, and the ratio remote controller for one of the led lightings, and there's a proxy token on my keychain that opens five doors now
< 1535226789 639576 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe there's tiny ones in the bacteria I drink from my water bottle too => for most bacteria, it should essentially be nano
< 1535226801 893350 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not micro)
< 1535226807 988860 :wob_jonas!b03f1802@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in the readers for each of those doors, and in the door phone client and the door phone server at the gate,
< 1535226829 193274 :wob_jonas!b03f1802@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually more than one there
< 1535226913 576641 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are languages where the program's code is on a grid of characters (a square tiling of the Euclidean plane). Theoretically, then, there could be a language where program code is on different tilings, such as a heptagonal tiling of the hyperbolic plane.
< 1535226918 459591 :wob_jonas!b03f1802@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I have a landline phone too, and the box the ISP gave me to connect doesn't even make it subtle because it emits a lot of heat and has a big transformer
< 1535226934 480261 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Martin Ender writes a lot of those sorts of languages
< 1535226937 487106 :wob_jonas!b03f1802@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's probably microcontrollers in each of the four USB chargers I have
< 1535226948 600166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hexagony, which uses a hex grid, is probably the best known
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< 1535227254 720668 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found a bug in the Wikipedia article on Commodore DOS
< 1535227261 827258 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the examples isn't rendering properly
< 1535227272 946397 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many things they don't need computer; I have once written a schematic for a telephone answering machine that does not use any computer. It does require an external tape recorder, but the tape recorder doesn't require a computer either.
< 1535227416 873341 :wob_jonas!b03f1802@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sure, but these days they just put microcontrollers in everything because it's easier
< 1535227737 880681 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :often the cost of a device will primarily depend on how many components it has
< 1535227754 309807 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as more components means you need a bigger circuit board, a more extensive manufacturing process, etc.
< 1535227768 433424 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so using a single microcontroller can be worthwhile as it can do everything on its own
< 1535227851 754925 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does 6502 indirect indexed addressing only allow starting from the 0 page?
< 1535227888 755491 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that means it only uses 8 bits to store the temporary address
< 1535227904 232247 :wob_jonas!b03f1802@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: the 6502 has very few real registers, so it effectively uses the first 256 bytes of memory as extra registers
< 1535227906 597273 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only has limited space for that sort of "microcode temporary"
< 1535228056 796262 :wob_jonas!b03f1802@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, it only has like one adder, and it uses that for arithmetic, indexing, and incrementing the PC, and it's an 8-bit adder so it uses it twice when there's carry
< 1535228134 970370 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using the zero page for indirect indexed addressing seems good enough for most purposes anyways; I know 6502 programming, and it can also be used with NES/Famicom too
< 1535228350 753553 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the NES uses the same instructions as a 6502
< 1535228354 596810 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or almost the same
< 1535228363 552429 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there are a few exceptions with undocumented opcodes and decimal mode)
< 1535228386 315821 :Sagan28!~Sagan@188.52.54.28 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535228414 550587 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :NES/Famicom has the decimal mode disabled (by removing one internal connection). Also it has the APU and CPU in the same IC.
< 1535228438 934667 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than that it is a NMOS 6502.
< 1535228485 714865 :wob_jonas!b03f1802@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? why does it have the decimal mode disabled?
< 1535228501 822012 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a patent on decimal mode.
< 1535228517 480398 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gating it off let them not pay a license fee for it.
< 1535228528 607302 :wob_jonas!b03f1802@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow
< 1535228554 572513 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The decimal mode flags still exists, but it is not connected to the decimal logic and so decimal mode flag does not do anything.
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< 1535228575 551725 :wob_jonas!b03f1802@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I was just wondering why they'd do that
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< 1535231203 806953 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@185.131.67.112 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
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< 1535233957 877626 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it normal for BASIC to make me want to claw my eyes out? There are no local variables
< 1535234653 991726 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's common in older languages
< 1535234845 905139 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does C64 + SuperCPU support memory protection? I know normal C64 can support pre-emptive multitasking (which seems amazing to me), but no memory protection
< 1535235699 599897 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
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< 1535239955 137832 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I was trying to figure out what method calls really are.
< 1535239973 303181 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the idea is that they try to provide a sort of dynamic namespace?
< 1535240062 162177 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :With regular static namespaces, I can define foo() in namespace N, and then I can say N.foo()
< 1535240132 213576 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now on SQLite mailing list they ask when is next release, it says 4 or 5 weeks. Now I know.
< 1535240157 463528 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :With methods and dynamic namespaces, I can define, say, a "push" method for arrays, and then I can say a.push(x) and b.push(x), and conceptually a.push and b.push are different functions.
< 1535240215 569590 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone told me that instead of the usual method approach I should look at "multiple dispatch", which as far as I can tell means function overloading (?).
< 1535240249 350956 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In what programming language?
< 1535240272 768106 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There you'd write the same thing as push(a, x) or push(b, x), with which push you want being disambiguated by the type of the first argument (and maybe other arguments).
< 1535240300 131522 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't have a specific language in mind. Say C++.
< 1535240310 420344 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This accomplishes a similar goal but it seems to me that it accomplishes it in a very different way!
< 1535240350 713047 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a.push(x), I'm looking up the name "push", unambiguously, inside a namespace which is probably small.
< 1535240486 79120 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`smlist 480
< 1535240486 788260 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :smlist 480: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy Cale
< 1535240498 122894 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the second case there's one global symbol, "push", that everyone adds meanings to, and to find out what push(a, x) means I need to look at all of them to find one that works for me.
< 1535241155 714172 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One feature only found in the "rtree-geopoly" branch is SQLITE_INDEX_CONSTRAINT_FUNCTION, which may be useful in programs other than rtree-geopoly too.
< 1535242071 800284 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535242260 724421 :nfd9001!nfd9001@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/nfd9001 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1535242621 552164 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~aldrich/papers/ecoop05pmd.pdf might be interesting?
< 1535242632 240277 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Prototypes with Multiple Dispatch:
< 1535242632 423150 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :An Expressive and Dynamic Object Model"
< 1535242757 352514 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want things to be less dynamic, not more dynamic. :-(
< 1535243235 358810 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the type is known then it should know how to dispatch at compile time.
< 1535243388 552828 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, in both cases I mentioned it's known at compile time.
< 1535243422 784127 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to understand what's going on there first before worrying about more dynamic things.
< 1535243473 165691 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiple dispatch is pretty tied to dynamic dispatch as far as I understand
< 1535243510 800804 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably don't understand it very well, then.
< 1535243516 644795 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a good example?
< 1535243540 143359 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure, but Lisp and Clojure both support it I believe
< 1535243551 671698 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Common Lisp
< 1535243563 23859 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://clojure.org/about/runtime_polymorphism
< 1535243591 40037 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why couldn't that all be static?
< 1535243644 98427 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The static version would just be overloading I believe
< 1535243654 955234 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1535243669 672754 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the clojure link isn't really a demonstration, hmm
< 1535243689 457892 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_dispatch#Common_Lisp
< 1535243690 838611 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So should I prefer push(a, x) or a.push(x)?
< 1535243704 876746 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They seem pretty different.
< 1535243739 884135 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a.push(x) is better for single-dispatch systems, where that first argument is "special" so to speak, I would say
< 1535243768 598849 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :COuld make a language where they mean the same thing
< 1535243811 655160 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean should I prefer single-dispatch or multiple-dispatch, I don't care about the syntax so much.
< 1535243945 737780 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In WiNGs while some programs may be running fine, you could start up a 3rd or 4th program or more and if any one of them has a major bug, it can crash the whole system."
< 1535243955 656020 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess WiNGs doesn't have memory protection then
< 1535247249 508132 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit
< 1535249930 473996 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535253229 171662 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you make a correspondence between all byte strings and all rational numbers (or, possibly, all rational numbers whose denominator is a power of two), and have the proper ordering? (And maybe a empty string represents negative infinity, although there is no positive infinity; if you don't use negative numbers then a empty string means zero)
< 1535253986 213338 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535256909 458150 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535257230 391604 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1535258483 824024 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do READ/DATA work in BASIC? I mean, READ somehow knows all DATA statements in the program and reads from them... but how?
< 1535258545 413224 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it reads them in order (use RESTORE command to restart the data reading). Presumably it will find where the DATA statements are before reading them, I suppose.
< 1535258556 861707 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being BASIC, I would tend to assume the absolute simplest approach.
< 1535258559 626156 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know exactly how it is implemented.
< 1535258568 24895 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I know what those commands do.
< 1535258595 435726 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. likely each statement in the program gets put in a linked list or similar sequential data structure, and the READ statement just scans that.
< 1535260672 413429 :Esqapezord!~quassel@bzq-79-181-127-221.red.bezeqint.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535260766 752444 :Shragazord!~quassel@bzq-109-67-33-106.red.bezeqint.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1535261697 13782 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535261964 15577 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1535263933 957498 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRINT "{UP}{UP} READY OR NOT, HERE I COME"
< 1535263936 573247 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am easily amused
< 1535266421 842060 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535266635 889997 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh Simons' BASIC has local variables
< 1535266661 272674 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want local variables, maybe consider a language that isn't BASIC.
< 1535266662 442251 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth
< 1535266776 461370 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure if Simons' BASIC's local variables are um, reentrant? Or if it's just a single shadow/unshadow thing
< 1535266848 809834 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you considered ALGOL 68 instead of BASIC?
< 1535266851 825820 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd like it better.
< 1535266952 325731 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a language called COMAL
< 1535266953 363373 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(Offsite link) This is (more or less) what happened when a Danish schoolteacher got fed up with Basic back in the early 1980s. COMAL added procedures and various structured-programming facilities. It was popular in the Commodore-64 community in Europe for a few years. This vesrsion has been heavily extended, but still conveys some of the flavor of what those 1980s micro languages were like. There is a very interesting history of the 
< 1535266953 508851 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :language (presented as introduction to a bibliography) which puts it in context with BASIC."
< 1535267031 735267 :imode1!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2
< 1535267056 876213 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can ALGOL 68 compile to or run on C64?
< 1535267316 712043 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not?
< 1535267606 438786 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535268195 820716 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1535269527 988616 :iCantBePepperdin!~DaydreamL@pool-96-239-74-226.nycmny.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535269835 712819 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1535272722 409479 :WhySoManyPepperd!~DaydreamL@pool-96-239-74-137.nycmny.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1535273580 226094 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell zzo38 I don't think you can. No matter which value q you choose to correspond to the first non-empty byte string ("\0"?), q/2 is a smaller rational and should've been chosen instead.
< 1535273580 293397 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1535273846 376720 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1535274069 971902 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gisksipyvlcqswhi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535274699 479700 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535274978 743770 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
> 1535276252 448510 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda Calculus to Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57474&oldid=57473 5* 03A 5* (-34) 10
> 1535276301 478433 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57475&oldid=57467 5* 03A 5* (-19) 10/* Computational class */
> 1535276369 355245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda Calculus to Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57476&oldid=57474 5* 03A 5* (+20) 10
< 1535278158 695177 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcb1dmnmcpyztw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535278693 835827 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1535279619 959470 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
> 1535279870 282486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda Calculus to Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57477&oldid=57476 5* 03A 5* (-12) 10
< 1535281200 731494 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535281464 697280 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1535283177 8718 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535283731 108986 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell zzo38 <zzo38> Can you make a correspondence between all byte strings and all rational numbers (or, possibly, all rational numbers whose denominator is a power of two), and have the proper ordering? <-- i think not; there are strings with no elements between them, like "" and "\0"
< 1535283731 173530 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1535283941 568956 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, ninjaed (fizzied?)
< 1535283996 441489 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later
< 1535285096 938159 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
> 1535285420 348645 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esoteric Verilog14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57478&oldid=36298 5* 03Jabutosama 5* (+540) 10added definition for chemical
< 1535286818 124919 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535287174 462802 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535287273 425806 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1535287702 410133 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535287976 284530 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
> 1535289071 816729 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF instruction minimalization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57479&oldid=56686 5* 03GDavid 5* (+1310) 10/* Skip If Zero expansion (4 instructions) */
> 1535289151 508511 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF instruction minimalization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57480&oldid=57479 5* 03GDavid 5* (+0) 10/* Skip If Zero expansion (4 instructions) */
< 1535290307 477741 :CurryWurst!~CurryWurs@116.96.38.203 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535290398 86993 :CurryWurst!~CurryWurs@116.96.38.203 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1535290529 477486 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535293670 637028 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1535294205 719499 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535294466 711609 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1535295018 970988 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, that is the good point
< 1535295887 383937 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1535295966 760546 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535296284 834427 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1535297430 652736 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1535297509 518456 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535298336 877826 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I made up a SQLite extension to load read-only compressed databases.
< 1535300206 835019 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535300261 65804 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1535300912 330064 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535301185 386178 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1535302531 542482 :ep100_!~max@105.186.90.217 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535304836 690694 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's weird, instead of wallowing in my own nostalgia, I'm wallowing in other people's nostalgia
< 1535304953 338262 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is that?
< 1535305720 96480 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should P'' be mentioned somewhere in [[BF instruction minimalization]]? I am not sure where, though.
< 1535305833 453986 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535305840 142133 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm (currently and probably briefly) obsessed with the Commodore 64, even though I never had one, the closest was Weird Al making fun of it and the JavaOnTheBrain guy's interest
< 1535305868 632811 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the Monty on the Run music was stolen by I Wanna Be The Guy
< 1535305892 983843 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have worked with old computers I never had any of, too
< 1535306344 451797 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535306710 851228 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: zzo38: I slightly want to create a simple machine with graphical terminal. As it’s completely impractical by itself, I make it more feasible by thinking it would be an alien machine with alien glyphs, input mode, color representation, language etc. etc. but still I don’t want to make it enough, so it remains a rough idea and not much else
< 1535306733 20352 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it has same reasons as this nostalgia?
< 1535306767 492909 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it’d be nice to wrap your head about something small and nice and OTOH sufficiently usable
< 1535306840 605131 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the scope of activities is both manageable and worthy of interest by at least several people to share things with
< 1535306881 43157 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think brain wants something like this, comfy and warm
< 1535306906 93727 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you think? ::
< 1535307006 680028 :wob_jonas!b03f18d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.215 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535307042 584989 :wob_jonas!b03f18d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: what do you mean by graphical terminal? full frame buffer?
< 1535307419 650291 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535307589 849721 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mnzelkotnhzjxaws JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535307690 651851 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1535309419 537131 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535310111 401828 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: yeah, a program can set pixels (or other alien elements) of the screen separately
< 1535310373 905606 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I thought about hexagonal elements, or simple brickwork (header bond), this would be not to hard to use or implement)
< 1535311095 285203 :wob_jonas!b03f18d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: but then you'd need a fast cpu or something
< 1535311106 813789 :wob_jonas!b03f18d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe a special gpu to help
< 1535311284 17606 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that if that alien system is slow it’s because it’s not advanced enough
< 1535311383 393599 :wob_jonas!b03f18d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or because it's not designed well
< 1535311396 941335 :wob_jonas!b03f18d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do a lot with slow speed but a good design of hardware and software
< 1535311457 34791 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 30 fps or alike is reasonable enough. I tested a random-generated image buffer on 640×480 or alike in Processing³, it was giving stable 60fps. However it was with standard square pixels and no post-processing, and no VM computations
< 1535311557 305515 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally, older systems emulators and other things do work acceptably, so it should be possible maybe without special GPU
< 1535311620 969253 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if such a project is a bigger thing, it’s better to develop an actual OS
< 1535311642 878508 :wob_jonas!b03f18d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: yes, but how do you paint on it fast enough? you'd need a special blitter gpu that can copy sections shifted by any number of pixels
< 1535311658 163927 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which process I hope I’ll never be in contact with)
< 1535311659 685115 :wob_jonas!b03f18d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hopefully recolor it too through a palette
< 1535311785 883609 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: yes, but how do you paint on it fast enough? you'd need a special blitter gpu that can copy sections shifted by any number of pixels => why not copying the entire buffer? And there would be two buffers, of course: one currently being drawn as fast as it’s possible, and the other being fiddled upon by a machine’s instructions
< 1535311794 296962 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it too simple a scheme?
< 1535311818 905114 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I’m not going to make that thing in near future
< 1535311899 998846 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hopefully recolor it too through a palette => I thought it would be recolored by VM software, if there’s no more than ~1k palette entries, why not
< 1535311928 612794 :wob_jonas!b03f18d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: you'd need too fast a cpu for that
< 1535313191 508296 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535313208 128128 :wob_jonas!b03f18d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523
< 1535313492 491049 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1535314240 346704 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1535314366 42744 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
< 1535314384 846703 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1535314441 723132 :wob_jonas!b03f18d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`randquote
< 1535314443 787510 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1251) <fizzie> When life gives you limes, make esolangs.
< 1535314453 968319 :wob_jonas!b03f18d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`"
< 1535314454 637932 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :376) <Sgeo> Dear eHow: Please don't assume that my toilet works like that  <Sgeo> Or, at least, my toilet looks different \ 689) <olsner> the allocation is done by the "Dynamic" in DRAM  <olsner> before that we used SRAM where everything was preallocated in the factory  <fizzie> olsner: So what's this SDRAM then?  <olsner> fizzie: synchronized, it's for multithreading
< 1535315415 562003 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mnzelkotnhzjxaws QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1535315625 219743 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One possibility for drawing on a display is using a display list; only the display list can draw on the picture.
< 1535315700 628040 :wob_jonas!b03f18d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: arseniiv said "a program can set pixels (or other alien elements) of the screen separately" for some reason
< 1535315844 416025 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but that would allow to set individla pixels while the program is doing other stuff too
< 1535315873 605139 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535315898 498983 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many music formats require emulating a CPU?
< 1535315926 508897 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. NSF does, and probably others too
< 1535315940 417768 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is better because custom compression is possible.
< 1535315969 192405 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vgmpf.com/Wiki/index.php?title=Category:Formats_With_Programmatic_Content
< 1535316010 130029 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For SID, I don't think custom compression was used a lot although it's possible. Just various music making tools made their own machine code players to play their data
< 1535316259 948381 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1535316601 87322 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like the SQLite extensions I wrote?
< 1535316729 797322 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what’s a display list? Isn’t it something like double-buffering?
< 1535316804 150643 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :A display list is a separate program to define the picture to display.
< 1535316810 878384 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I think it's like buffering of drawing commands rather than buffereing of the drawn pixels
< 1535316885 786968 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: do you have a SQLite extension for bignums?
< 1535316909 14737 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I do not, but may add it later. Is that something that would be useful to you?
< 1535316911 641023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's something I was trying to handle fairly recently, my current plan is to store them as strings once they're out of the int range, and use a custom collation to sort them in numerical order and custom functions for arithmetic
< 1535316931 991808 :wob_jonas!b03f18d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why strings rather than blobs?
< 1535316936 278753 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did make a collation to sort strings in numerical order.
< 1535316938 254752 :wob_jonas!b03f18d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess either works
< 1535316940 109254 :wob_jonas!b03f18d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1535316942 698571 :wob_jonas!b03f18d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :collation
< 1535316944 942645 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Presumably because collations don't work with blobs
< 1535316953 488296 :wob_jonas!b03f18d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that might be easier than a custom format for sorting
< 1535316971 744071 :wob_jonas!b03f18d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, the custom format isn't too bad either
< 1535316974 12711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :strings sort after ints in sqlite
< 1535316980 76732 :wob_jonas!b03f18d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you only want integers
< 1535316994 92290 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so as long as you're only using positive bignums, you can store smallnums as integers for efficiency
< 1535317017 423160 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even better, sqlite will convert strings to ints in a column with integer affinity iff the string is the digit pattern of some integer
< 1535317029 872127 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you get that particular optimisation done automatically without having to code it
< 1535317044 697506 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :My "sqlext_misc" extension includes a "NUMERIC" collation, which can sort numbers in up to base 36, with an optional radix point, leading zeros, trailing zeros, leading/trailing spaces, and an optional sign positive/negative, too.
< 1535317062 5538 :wob_jonas!b03f18d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: make sure you're not using too old sqlite versions then, to avoid the bugs
< 1535317119 262423 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I assume it handles arbitrarily many digits?
< 1535317150 54478 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes.
< 1535317209 236068 :WhySoManyPepperd!~DaydreamL@pool-96-239-74-137.nycmny.east.verizon.net NICK :iCantBePepperdin
< 1535317324 77713 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a collation (in Perl) that sorts longer strings first, otherwise lexicographically
< 1535317332 561684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that works for positive numbers
< 1535317351 851841 :wob_jonas!b03f18d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that depends on how you encode them
< 1535317357 973464 :wob_jonas!b03f18d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to strings
< 1535317388 986780 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, the SQLite/Perl interface sends as Unicode (i.e. a list of codepoints, not in any specific encoding)
< 1535317414 847750 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe the actual bits in memory are encoded in UTF-8 but that's an implementation detail and not visible from within the program unless you use very low-level operations
< 1535317415 839807 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually "sqlext_misc" has a collation like that too, called "RIGHT_BINARY" (there is also "RIGHT_NOCASE")
< 1535317464 365034 :wob_jonas!b03f18d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's one sqlite/perl interface. you can send any byte string as an utf-8 string to sqlite and it will happily store it verbatim, as long as you don't try to do anything utf16-related or any unicode-dependent stuff
< 1535317479 50499 :wob_jonas!b03f18d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is documented but very well hidden in the documentation
< 1535317489 180663 :wob_jonas!b03f18d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it always talks about "utf-8 strings" in the interface
< 1535317514 425280 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think one of the biggest mistakes in programming was making encodings visible anywhere other than the I/O layer
< 1535317568 307404 :wob_jonas!b03f18d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's not really visible in sqlite3 unless you use one of the few functions or collations that care or any of the utf-16 interfaces
< 1535317604 991030 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the utf-16 interfaces are fine, as that /is/ an I/O layer (well, an API, which is much the same thing)
< 1535317636 610201 :wob_jonas!b03f18d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but they make the encoding visible
< 1535317643 93839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh
< 1535317656 427693 :wob_jonas!b03f18d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you restrict yourself to the utf-8 interfaces, you don't even have to know that it's utf-8
< 1535317661 749629 :wob_jonas!b03f18d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just store whatever byte strings you want
< 1535317680 382326 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In SQLite you can use CAST(? AS BLOB), in case you need the UTF-8 representation as a blob
< 1535317711 348430 :wob_jonas!b03f18d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you can just get the utf-8 representation with the C interface or any SANE wrapper of it
< 1535317719 612687 :wob_jonas!b03f18d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the perl DBI one, which sucks
< 1535317744 203067 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I was planning to use that wrapper
< 1535317746 29843 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why shouldn't I?
< 1535317771 682645 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Yes you can (as long as the database is set to UTF-8), although you shouldn't because some SQL functions assume that it is Unicode text. (Also some things won't work proper if there is embedded null characters)
< 1535317856 573522 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you should use the SQL TEXT type only for valid sequences of nonzero Unicode codepoints (although it does not have to represent Unicode characters).
< 1535317906 394463 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, it is also good for ASCII text (which is what I mainly use it for anyways, rather than Unicode).
< 1535318028 641090 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what is the perl DBI one anyways
< 1535318226 246182 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it's the Perl module DBD::SQLite, which allows SQLite to be used through the DBI interface
< 1535318245 4138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where DBI is another Perl module that abstracts over a large range of databases, giving all the common API functoins consistent names
< 1535318249 165583 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't make up my mind about function overloading.
< 1535318288 174476 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I have the feeling that multiple dispatch should be used only as an optimisation
< 1535318296 493349 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or as a method of fulfilling an interface/role
< 1535318333 845543 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Did you see what I wrote about methods/multiple dispatch above?
< 1535318344 786251 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how far above?
< 1535318355 126127 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I noticed you writing something about it a while back
< 1535318367 759218 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Around 22 hours ago.
< 1535318383 178034 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably yes but I'm not sure if I can remember the details
< 1535318411 422397 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to figure out whether single dispatch and multiple dispatch are even similar or very different way of accomplishing the same thing.
< 1535318423 826296 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it mean for it to be used only as an optimization?
< 1535318496 728229 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Different databases have their own functions, so you cannot use the same things for all databases
< 1535318552 600018 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: like, you define multiple functions that all do the same thing, so it doesn't matter which is used for correctness purposes
< 1535318557 965474 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but some are specialised for different types
< 1535318564 882489 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/logs/2018-08-25.html#l3d this thing
< 1535318589 647322 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: right, DBI aims to take the common functions (e.g. "run this statement", "retrieve a row of results") and give those consistent names and calling conventions between DBs
< 1535318606 854087 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't do things like translate the SQL statements themselves between SQL dialects
< 1535318637 432200 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I believe that method calls should be namespaced independently of which class they belong to
< 1535318648 375879 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that the same method name (given appropriate namespacing) always refers to the same operation
< 1535318654 371293 :wob_jonas!b03f18d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok good night discussing it, I'd rather not get into this or I'll rant about DBI's stupidity and then I won't get to sleep before I have to work
< 1535318656 902065 :wob_jonas!b03f18d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :g'nite all
< 1535318660 53366 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :different classes may have to define it differently but it's still meant to do the same thing
< 1535318669 720596 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes some sense, maybe.
< 1535318669 757630 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: night, you can tell me some other time when you don't have to wake up soon after :-)
< 1535318684 698048 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though different types mostly have different operations with different meanings.
< 1535318688 785825 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can put my DBI projects on hold until then
< 1535318693 992123 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still there are functions other than SQL statements too. Such as, SQLite has virtual tables, VFS, online backup, etc
< 1535318705 450578 :wob_jonas!b03f18d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, you or zzo38 can probably guess what I have to tell about it, or perhaps find it in the logs, I don't recall if I ranted about it yet or not
< 1535318708 47430 :wob_jonas!b03f18d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.215 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1535318751 827283 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't think DBI implements all those
< 1535318850 813750 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :SQLite also supports authorizer hook function, which can be used to disallow some SQL statements from an untrusted source (e.g. from remote users).
> 1535318972 317361 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:DMC14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57481&oldid=57046 5* 03DMC 5* (+4) 10
< 1535319003 212569 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't understand how choosing which code to run can be an optimization.
> 1535319025 586329 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:DMC14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57482&oldid=57481 5* 03DMC 5* (+1) 10
< 1535319046 122038 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well some classes will be more restricted versions of the classes they inherit from, so they may be able to do more efficient versions of the same operation
< 1535319076 150530 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I should try to get some work done
< 1535319077 983022 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :night everyone
< 1535319083 706976 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit
< 1535319342 223554 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ebdnqiifalgefpwe JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535319549 501598 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 I'm trying to understand all this without inheritance first, it seems complicated enough in that case.
< 1535319549 569441 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1535319983 349222 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How drastically can a font change a character's width? Could be cool to make a font that shows tokenized BASIC as readable text
< 1535319999 655669 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. expand the token for GOTO into an appearance of the letters "GOTO"
< 1535320160 431816 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably depends on the font format
< 1535320183 566000 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :With .pcf I believe you can do that.
< 1535320365 542053 :jcDenton!973363d7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.151.51.99.215 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535320375 644775 :jcDenton!973363d7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.151.51.99.215 QUIT :Client Quit
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< 1535321989 385012 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
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< 1535322533 799383 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: A display list is a separate program to define the picture to display. => hm, I don’t follow, then, how is it faster in any way
< 1535322589 635338 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may run in a separate display processor that only runs the display list.
< 1535322926 425533 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. I thoought about multithreaded program, one thread displays what is in the “still” buffer, and the main thread runs VM and, through it, manipulates the other buffer’s contents and changes two of them when appropriate (some command for refreshing the screen)
< 1535322962 768314 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn’t need to be physically feasible, as is, realizable as a sane device
> 1535323807 968897 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pxem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57483&oldid=57420 5* 03YamTokWae 5* (+142) 10/* External Links */
< 1535323991 541068 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know how to do. You mentioned hexagons display, and alien glyphs, input mode, color representation, language etc. But, what with instruction set?
> 1535324162 568866 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pxem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57484&oldid=57483 5* 03YamTokWae 5* (+4) 10/* Examples */
< 1535324402 826402 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.6.5+deb2build2 - http://znc.in
< 1535324418 753506 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535326076 764104 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was that little CPU game people were playing in here?
< 1535326770 689660 :olsner!~salparot@c83-253-165-33.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1535326929 993936 :ep100_!~max@105.186.90.217 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
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< 1535327564 819473 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does the "comm" field of /proc/$$/stat do if the filename contains parentheses or spaces?
< 1535328047 778343 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: But, what with instruction set? => didn’t think about it, but it would be nice if it somehow anticipated using algebraic datatypes in a language compiled to it
< 1535328134 591154 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it would should have a minimalistic instruction set
< 1535328140 329710 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course
< 1535328170 544970 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1535328667 120054 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What's the problem with parentheses and spaces?
< 1535328884 919896 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fields in that file are separated by spaces, and there is parentheses around it, but how can you parse it if the filename contains parentheses and spaces?
< 1535328925 123278 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I misread that as /proc/$$/comm somehow.
< 1535329483 893704 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I found the answer.
< 1535329493 211976 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: First you look for the leftmost (, and then you look for the rightmost )
< 1535329499 218231 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the comm is between them.
< 1535329508 835860 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is what ps does, at least.
< 1535329528 698428 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/thlorenz/procps/blob/master/deps/procps/proc/readproc.c#L516
< 1535329551 378323 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I suppose that will work (as long as no other parentheses are possible in that file, which as far as I can tell is the case), although it doesn't seem a very good design.
< 1535329557 957592 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree.
< 1535329575 715413 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's p. scow the amount of ad-hoc parsing unix makes you do to do things
< 1535329710 789224 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find myself kinda wishing the "everything is text" thing had motivated fewer data representations, not more.
< 1535329765 879699 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's that great.
< 1535329796 959503 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Structure is good, throwing it away is a scow move
< 1535329900 11289 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand, the period structured file systems were pretty scow.
< 1535329923 151205 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Structure is good, throwing it away is a scow move => +1 vive LispOS!
< 1535329929 450022 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sure, most things are scow.
< 1535329940 916282 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But why do we gotta be stuck with the 1970s scow?
< 1535329987 992260 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because people are afraid of change.
< 1535330022 399893 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To the point that you live in a country that's using 16th century scow units. :)
< 1535330037 601666 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll give up on all computer things and just do it all myself.
< 1535330107 742894 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNIX is still much better than Windows though, even though there are some problem
< 1535330177 467079 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it better than Windows?
< 1535330302 922194 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on where you're looking really.
< 1535330304 514330 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of the windows system calls seem better to me.
< 1535330393 16173 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, a few are in fact better, some are same, many are worse.
< 1535330423 159504 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't used other UNIX systems much.
< 1535330437 651375 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which parts of the Linux system call API are much better than Windows?
< 1535330462 689324 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It exists? :P
< 1535330480 30916 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Windows does not have a stable system call API at all)
< 1535330492 246878 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean kernel32.dll or whatever the equivalent is.
< 1535330499 847906 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is much of why Windows is worse.
< 1535330508 470831 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Windows approach seems p. reasonable?
< 1535330518 133932 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like the VDSO in Linux.
< 1535330531 739696 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, kernel32.dll is not a thin wrapper.
< 1535330559 312177 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, but is that a bad thing?
< 1535330560 987731 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kernel32.dll is more analogous to glibc, if glibc was built on top of an unstable system call API.
< 1535330581 659910 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better for more of the stable API compatiblity layers to be in userspace rather than in the kernel.
< 1535330600 145067 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Then again, they do font rendering in the kernel, so, y'know.)
< 1535330767 450693 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, I didn't really realize until recently why C89 requires all variable declarations to be at the beginning of a block.
< 1535330801 99650 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's really laying out a stack frame, just like a struct etc.
< 1535330852 668901 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compilers have been ignoring that completely and doing much fancier allocation for a long time so it didn't really occur to me.
< 1535330854 139762 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, and period compilers were generally very simple.
< 1535331083 343345 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows debugging-related system calls seem much nicer than ptrace.
< 1535331106 609243 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I hear IOCP is p. good?
< 1535331164 265759 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IOCP is a mixed bag. When it works it's great, but it requires a client-side buffer for each request, and in some cases *can block anyways*.
< 1535331180 681970 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's true for a lot of Linux APIs too. :-(
< 1535331191 310684 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, and I'm harsh on them for the same exact reasons!
< 1535331208 904041 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand why they don't just give you an API where everything is asynchronous.
< 1535331239 324243 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where you can do socket I/O and file I/O and it's guaranteed not to block the OS thread.
< 1535331263 42547 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it makes some things really painful not having that.
< 1535331281 940631 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thread pools for async IO should not be a thing that people actually do.
< 1535331286 787183 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead it's a mess of different APIs for different things and they have strange restrictions and some things can block anyway.
< 1535331301 138549 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you have to use a thread pool, yep.
< 1535331330 431177 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's just so much effort for so much wasted work! To make the thread pool work it has to be doing lots of extra work I don't want!
< 1535331345 501851 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can make it work that way, but it really feels like just reimplementing a part of the kernel because the kernel can't be bothered to expose it to you.
< 1535331486 592100 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, exactly.
< 1535331681 954913 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1535333573 3322 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will GCC optimize out a code to switch the endian if it is already correct, in any cases?
< 1535333596 503821 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm confused by that question.
< 1535333629 608054 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you mean "if (IS_BIG_ENDIAN) { x = switch_endian(x); }", where IS_BIG_ENDIAN is known to be false at compile-time?
< 1535333689 335263 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do you mean something along the lines of "char *p; uint32_t x = p[0] | p[1] << 8 | p[2] << 16 | p[3] << 24;"?
< 1535333710 860465 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean like that second way.
< 1535333730 279478 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the first case, it can certainly remove that dead code. In the second case, I'm pretty sure it'll recognize that and turn it into a simple instruction that reads 4 bytes at a time.
< 1535333740 217045 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Assuming there are no alignment issues, I guess.)
< 1535338061 462329 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there are any C64-like screen editors for shells for modern OSes
< 1535338232 214695 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, you mentioned music compression? http://deepsid.chordian.net/?file=MUSICIANS/0-9/4-Mat/Empty_512_bytes.sid
< 1535338289 221835 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no SID player on my computer at this time
< 1535338293 349821 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The file it's playing is ... huh my copy is 630 bytes, I feel cheated
< 1535338297 986721 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That website has a built in SID player
< 1535338306 961383 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe there is a header?
< 1535338336 966925 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The heck? Windows tells me the size on disk is 0 bytes
< 1535338655 209869 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, so they measure the side of the .prg file (executable C64 can run). .sid does have a header, so yeah maybe
< 1535338672 7211 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although turning a .sid into a .prg would also involve adding a small amount of code
< 1535338740 629911 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :7zip says the .sid is 618 bytes and the .prg is 510 bytes
> 1535339072 835303 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printf14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57485&oldid=57451 5* 03A 5* (+27) 10Actually, mispelled word
> 1535339082 455869 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printf14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57486&oldid=57485 5* 03A 5* (-4) 10
< 1535339693 872309 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ebdnqiifalgefpwe QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1535342763 828284 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone fit the Bad Apple animation onto a single disk for the C64
< 1535342773 832520 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://csdb.dk/release/?id=131628
< 1535343924 400964 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535344303 510697 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net QUIT :Quit: the creeping crawling chaos will return.
< 1535344960 467358 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@c-67-161-161-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1535348043 679786 :copumpkin[m]!copumpkinm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ujlzkslnyogehmgx QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1535348596 736938 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :""The (zero) flag is probably misnamed, and should have been called the
< 1535348596 940487 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :flag (for "equals")."
< 1535348921 332781 :copumpkin[m]!copumpkinm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-aconrckwdqxrimrg JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535349068 38561 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is vaguely annoyed that 6502 asm uses "EOR" instead of "XOR"

< 1535349279 754457 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Coding to test the RUN/STOP key is often removed once testing is complete, on the assumption that no one will want to stop perfect program. Incidentally, if you plan to write nothing but 100 percent perfect programs, you will not need to use this subroutine."
< 1535357038 688336 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535357177 902337 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: re "comm" field of /proc/$$/stat, see http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man5/proc.5.html and the source of http://procps.sourceforge.net/ which has utilities like ps and top for linux and parse data from /proc , note that you may need to read /proc/$pid/status instead
< 1535357251 265691 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: also, if you only want the arguments (argv or the argument list in execve), you can try /proc/$pid/cmdline
< 1535357302 246560 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the format of /proc/$pid/cmdline is nul-byte-separated and so completely unambiguous
< 1535358065 382096 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You can also read the source code of Linux or of any of the open source BSDs that emulates a linux-like /proc interface. I did that to make sure that that counter somewhere in /proc that counts the number of times a new process was created was 64-bit so it can't overflow.
< 1535358247 213490 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The counter is the line with "processes" in /proc/stat
< 1535358719 431044 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: gcc optimize endian: in some cases yes, but it's hard to tell which those cases are, so it's easier to just steal the macro definitions from http://software.schmorp.de/pkg/libev.html , which define sane endianness swapping operations calling builtins on many compilers including gcc and msvc, and falling back to portable C on others.
< 1535358799 999497 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can also point to like five other libraries that give you endianness interface, including https://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_68_0/libs/endian/doc/index.html , but I can't vouch for their quality,
< 1535358927 816341 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas I have examined libev in detail and have worked with schmorp on some of libev's integer code, and I know its code is excellent.
< 1535358950 835303 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, wrong library.
< 1535358961 27600 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of libev, I mean http://software.schmorp.de/pkg/libecb.html
< 1535358967 121735 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ignore libev for this discussion.
< 1535358998 906270 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want the functions ecb_bswap16
< 1535359026 298352 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :, ecb_bswap32, ecb_bswap64, ecb_big_endian, ecb_little_endian.
< 1535359084 132046 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also wanted to add macro functions for reading/writing unaligned integers, but eventually schmorp convinced me that malloc is the best solution for that, compilers already optimize it really well and it has exactly correct semantics in C and C++, my solutions were more complicated and not better.
< 1535359691 739948 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535359756 409664 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1535359949 521818 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes, the operation was called EOR and IOR back then, for exclusive and inclusive or. It's not xclusive to 6502.
< 1535359959 187728 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :People started "xor" later.
< 1535359974 351044 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know when "iff" and "ssi" started.
< 1535360026 698447 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535361032 9433 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"iff" is nxor; wtf is "ssi"?
< 1535361061 555683 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Most of my assembly exposure was intel x86, hence 'xor' rather than 'eor')
< 1535361089 262397 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: You were playing that one assembly game.
< 1535361091 330324 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was it called?
< 1535361157 482070 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Which one, box-256, tis100, shenzhen I/O? Or the old hugi competitions?
< 1535361182 959342 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Box-256, I think that was it.
< 1535361191 3490 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: "ssi" is "iff" in french
< 1535361210 58084 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ssi, err see.
< 1535361424 863031 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think "iff" in the bitwise logic version is called "xnor" or "equ" rather than "nxor", but I'm not sure
< 1535362137 130019 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I think you're right... and it's confusing :P
< 1535362193 466549 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(exclusive neither-nor?)
< 1535363328 695527 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1535363386 850497 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535363800 168073 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: "exclusive nor". sounds better than "nexclusive or".
< 1535363860 113760 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, let me check what the MMIX bitwise instructions call it... it has all 8 bitwise instructions, not just the 4 ones that are invariant to zeros
< 1535363930 897551 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I've been trained to think logically... :P
< 1535363941 966166 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MMIX calls in NXOR
< 1535363985 997507 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the eight are OR ORN NOR XOR AND ANDN NAND NXOR
< 1535364003 127393 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case there's good precedent to call it "nxor". sorry.
< 1535364014 94121 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: sorry
< 1535364069 822103 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the text gives the short name "bitwise not-exclusive-or" to that instr
< 1535364149 448495 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the text might have changed in the final version, not likely, but if you want I can check at home where I have the up to date book; the instruction mnemonic can't have changed because that would break compat with MMIXAL programs whose syntax were fixed at that time
< 1535364695 976319 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, seems unlikely
< 1535364718 456403 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that the text changed from the pre-fascicle to the published fascicle)
< 1535365417 275008 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case, "bitwise not-exclusive-or" is definitely not a so silly name that nobody would ever use it
< 1535368426 948577 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535373942 58871 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later
< 1535375628 411020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535375671 191659 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages?
< 1535375671 278090 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
< 1535375676 51287 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages
< 1535375799 322952 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ai523
< 1535376065 189841 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a question
< 1535376086 4739 :vertrex!~vertrex@unaffiliated/vertrex QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1535376441 648072 :vertrex!~vertrex@digital-forensic.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535376442 230285 :vertrex!~vertrex@digital-forensic.org QUIT :Changing host
< 1535376442 230352 :vertrex!~vertrex@unaffiliated/vertrex JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535376612 741311 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"don't ask to ask, just ask"
< 1535376627 479280 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh damn
< 1535376638 469463 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kind-of pointless to attract someone's attention to say you're going to ask a question, and then not ask it, because there's nothing they can actually do with their attention on the channel
< 1535376642 451349 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I asked on #nethack4, then noticed you're not joined there. Join there, or should I ask here?
< 1535376651 62073 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, you are joined there
< 1535376651 576277 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I am there
< 1535376655 504845 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm stupid
< 1535376660 99821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just checked #esoteric first
< 1535377232 434758 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535378534 55001 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xprirmeoxafyucqz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535379186 684502 :vertrex!~vertrex@unaffiliated/vertrex QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1535379299 700845 :vertrex!~vertrex@digital-forensic.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535379300 283128 :vertrex!~vertrex@digital-forensic.org QUIT :Changing host
< 1535379300 283169 :vertrex!~vertrex@unaffiliated/vertrex JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535382199 646516 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535382368 461938 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535382631 86228 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1535382991 527400 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1535384169 483392 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535384204 553129 :ep100_!~max@105.187.34.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535385414 711494 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1535385489 43556 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit
< 1535385833 380805 :digitalcold!~redacted@unaffiliated/digitalcold JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535387023 969259 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcb1dmnmcpyztw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535387038 159102 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am making a graphics extension for SQLite. Currently I have functions GR_BLANK, GR_HCONCAT, GR_HEIGHT, GR_TEXT, GR_VCONCAT, GR_WIDTH, RGB8, RGBA8, RGB16, RGBA16, but I intend eventually will also add functions for making pie charts and other data graphics too (possibly as aggregate functions).
< 1535387048 152550 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages-loud
< 1535387048 262572 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie said 1d 7h 31m 8s ago: I don't think you can. No matter which value q you choose to correspond to the first non-empty byte string ("\0"?), q/2 is a smaller rational and should've been chosen
< 1535387048 262609 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead.
< 1535387048 262618 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 1d 4h 41m 57s ago: <zzo38> Can you make a correspondence between all byte strings and all rational numbers (or, possibly, all rational numbers whose denominator is a power of two), and
< 1535387048 262640 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :have the proper ordering? <-- i think not; there are strings with no elements between them, like "" and "\0"
< 1535387092 565594 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like this graphics extension? (Note: The extension to display the graphics on the screen is a separate extension (already released, as "sqlext_xwindows"), since it uses Xlib.)
< 1535387901 965856 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :A function to convert a picture into Sixel format may also be helpful, in case you wish to display the picture inline rather than a separate window.
< 1535387913 124613 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1535389456 182636 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xprirmeoxafyucqz QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
> 1535390588 167584 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Math++14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57487&oldid=53054 5* 03SuperJedi224 5* (+141) 10
< 1535392227 855541 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86C49A.versanet.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535392254 376651 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535392390 374918 :ep100_!~max@105.187.34.208 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1535392451 852418 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535392539 375671 :ep100_!~max@105.187.34.208 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535393407 860268 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86C49A.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages
< 1535393407 940518 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any messages
< 1535393957 722587 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535394708 666646 :void_!~void@p2003008869014D00E5B5AF19EE700BEE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535394768 944315 :void_!~void@p2003008869014D00E5B5AF19EE700BEE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Client Quit
< 1535396652 792764 :iCantBePepperdin!~DaydreamL@pool-96-239-74-137.nycmny.east.verizon.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1535396741 542483 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1535397211 711187 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535397624 874394 :Shragazord!~quassel@bzq-109-67-85-18.red.bezeqint.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535397752 772344 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Quit: brb
< 1535397955 688809 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric
> 1535398346 317355 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Alphabet Stew14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57488&oldid=57287 5* 03DMC 5* (+57) 10/* Description */
< 1535399150 660359 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535399549 326640 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lol I figured out this bug only because of my memorization of the numberic values of ascii chaacters
< 1535399597 571557 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just happen to know that !"#$ are the first 4 ascii
< 1535399896 493233 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [' '..'0']
< 1535399898 544531 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : " !\"#$%&'()*+,-./0"
< 1535401044 211368 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-moglmmuatblbqadu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535401081 579366 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1535401151 533060 :xkapastel!~user@142.93.249.241 QUIT :Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1)
< 1535401165 20249 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tmspihdjivruouxs JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535401926 429925 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535402285 948127 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1535402334 703885 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1535402440 552242 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535402571 40860 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think C++ syntax for pure virtual fucntions is retarded
< 1535402578 40139 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric := 0; 
< 1535402582 796615 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf
< 1535402670 800102 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've always thought that generally, esolangs should be designed with the best and clearest syntax possible.
< 1535402677 370204 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This means, of course, that C++ fails to meet esolang standards.
< 1535403397 69440 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, competition time.
< 1535403402 984857 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Invent the best esolang based on aviation.
< 1535403433 636139 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The prize is a free ride in a glider, assuming that I have a commercial pilot's license by the time you make it to Richmond Field on a day that I'm flying there.
< 1535403439 315771 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: that will never fly
< 1535403451 140409 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: let tswett have this flight of fancy
< 1535403477 606334 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you guys need to take the ten thousand foot view.
< 1535403480 559374 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: fair enough but I don't want to be here when it comes crashing down
< 1535403497 305160 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this idea could really take off.
< 1535403562 163482 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all a matter of having the right attitude.
< 1535403646 167910 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :altitude?
< 1535403689 64910 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86C49A.versanet.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1535403747 719436 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(personally IDK anything about aviation but that dispatching all that is really hard on people doing it and that they do it well, so there’s less incidents than with cars etc.)
< 1535403811 938638 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I have a completely different idea.
< 1535403825 329948 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to create the fastest video game ever created.
< 1535403850 455277 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :GAME OVER
< 1535403858 588941 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You click on "start", and the Big Bang happens, and you guide the entire evolution of the universe until its heat death 20 seconds later.
< 1535404054 848221 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it possible to base an esolang on keyboard cleaning procedures? I’ve cleaned mine and it was as usual full of cat hair and crumbs of something, and I have finally realized how the Enter key is supposed to be fixed correctly (there are staple-like things which allow the key to press more stable)
< 1535404104 39628 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: too hard, interesting parts would be unnoticeable
< 1535404229 53085 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1535404846 730503 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535405966 398818 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1535406297 335285 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535407270 977824 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535407317 723445 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1535407425 513201 :ep100_!~max@105.187.34.208 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1535407486 438854 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1535407788 818071 :Melvar!~melvar@2.203.38.71 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1535407911 312346 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-002-203-038-071.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535408109 954429 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcb1dmnmcpyztw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1535408931 800602 :LKoen_!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535408960 878986 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1535409013 110705 :LKoen_!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Client Quit
< 1535409020 663241 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535409251 796295 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1535410071 472086 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535410319 196998 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1535410431 700575 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535410560 773330 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1535410589 400470 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535410680 478175 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1535410738 160257 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1535411602 331928 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535411672 405374 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1535411926 360916 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1535411978 775308 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535411985 969064 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1535412002 720105 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535412123 715640 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535412438 66935 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
< 1535413398 735578 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1535413814 650442 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535414000 796767 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ QUIT :Quit: CHEAPIE! What did you do to the bouncer?! :P (jk)
< 1535414011 717731 :rdococ!rdococ@cheapiesystems.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535414032 425930 :rdococ!rdococ@cheapiesystems.com QUIT :Changing host
< 1535414032 448458 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535414400 2139 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supposedly BBC Micro BASIC is actually decent
< 1535414712 627171 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@unaffiliated/bowserinator QUIT :Quit: Blame iczero something happened
< 1535414712 692034 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf QUIT :Quit: Bye!
< 1535414712 715913 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn QUIT :Quit: lol rip
< 1535414731 697186 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535414752 528204 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@unaffiliated/bowserinator JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535414927 575656 :impomatic!~digital_w@host86-144-19-142.range86-144.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's faster and supports more structured programming features than most other 8-bit BASICs.
< 1535414969 531470 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535415157 465138 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@host86-144-19-142.range86-144.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535415211 446828 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@host86-144-19-142.range86-144.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's faster and supports more structured programming features than most other 8-bit BASICs.
< 1535415213 447894 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@host86-144-19-142.range86-144.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amstrad CPC BASIC is also pretty good.
< 1535415219 409906 :impomatic!~digital_w@host86-144-19-142.range86-144.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1535415996 434466 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1535416020 250694 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-moglmmuatblbqadu QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1535416368 744464 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1535416542 554172 :tswett!d047504c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.71.80.76 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1535417131 28503 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535418648 579406 :TellsTogo!3ecd6b27@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.205.107.39 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535420370 565214 :TellsTogo!3ecd6b27@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.205.107.39 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1535421301 550203 :TellsTogo!0517ff55@gateway/web/freenode/ip.5.23.255.85 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535427616 889423 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net QUIT :Read error: Connection timed out
< 1535427660 467677 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535432758 744264 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone needs to make a cover of "It's all about the Pentiums" in .sid. It would be a song making fun of C64 runnable on C64
< 1535433645 719249 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then put a DRM on the file because "My digital media's rights protected"
< 1535434168 232614 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea what's causing this error. time to reboot.
< 1535434349 531314 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1535434724 373670 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535436002 266795 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:d808:948b:f3ce:8c22 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1535436271 283402 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's DRM.
< 1535437732 876583 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-002-203-038-071.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1535438325 831107 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tmspihdjivruouxs QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1535438436 68488 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-002-203-074-075.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535439789 522546 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1535439798 701856 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-002-203-074-075.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1535440891 83300 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-077-243-244.088.077.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535443067 965217 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1535444031 471671 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535444225 702700 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcb1dmnmcpyztw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535444715 724753 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcb1dmnmcpyztw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1535446076 735919 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535446210 716449 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535446211 32299 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a QUIT :Changing host
< 1535446211 32329 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535447395 922843 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535447456 311905 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: can you remind me where your sqlite extensions are on the internet?
< 1535447476 499439 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: also, have you read my replies about linux /proc interface at https://esolangs.org/logs/2018-08-27.html#lGb
< 1535449806 550339 :TellsTogo!0517ff55@gateway/web/freenode/ip.5.23.255.85 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
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< 1535468631 871816 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535469610 227283 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1535470340 389540 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a20-76.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1535473938 664138 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.210.223 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1535473974 669143 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
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< 1535474922 10059 :sleepnap!~thomas@c-98-243-28-136.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PART :#esoteric
< 1535476250 262508 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535476857 225040 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@81.164.108.116 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535477577 715442 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535478389 987175 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving...
< 1535483362 452053 :wob_jonas!b03f1864@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.100 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535483500 36910 :wob_jonas!b03f1864@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: I remembered what that book was that I mentioned in 2018-08 in this channel https://esolangs.org/logs/2018-08.html#lUz . It's Paul Davies, ''The last three minutes''.
< 1535484946 195639 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.2.151 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535485147 560456 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1535485341 980763 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks! I'll go check that out.
< 1535485817 182213 :wob_jonas!b03f1864@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.100 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1535485881 258767 :wob_jonas!b03f1864@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.100 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535486187 819043 :gurmble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535486198 358743 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble QUIT :Quit: The world could be such a nice place, if it weren't for its inhabitants.
< 1535486296 475626 :gurmble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble NICK :grumble
< 1535486785 474941 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1535487177 961665 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@host86-144-19-142.range86-144.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1535487347 119759 :wob_jonas!b03f1864@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.100 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
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< 1535489356 267640 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535490476 765273 :ep100_!~max@105.227.82.41 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1535491617 282617 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
< 1535493445 408835 :Shragazord!~quassel@bzq-109-67-85-18.red.bezeqint.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535493838 399598 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1535494353 350717 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@81.164.108.116 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
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< 1535494470 269717 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a QUIT :Changing host
< 1535494470 269773 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535495826 311792 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wsuxftpjymdqkiju JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535497430 573661 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1535497691 614389 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Quit: Alas.
< 1535497790 277893 :shikhin!~shikhin@129.170.195.177 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535497808 116772 :shikhin!~shikhin@129.170.195.177 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1535498134 128539 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy crap now when I load gmail.com it shows a LOADING BAR
< 1535498251 887227 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF is this shit, maybe if you didn't use so much angular.js and react.js and goatse.js bullshit it would load fast like it used to
< 1535498366 472954 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should make a web framework called goatse.js
< 1535498514 430355 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :goatse.js: 500 GB of minified javascript that allows you to build any web app you can imagine!
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< 1535499841 232726 :shikhin!~shikhin@129.170.195.177 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535499860 65693 :shikhin!~shikhin@129.170.195.177 QUIT :Changing host
< 1535499860 88124 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535499865 723148 :shikhin_!shikhin@lambdaos.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535499937 971634 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Client Quit
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< 1535499953 830440 :shikhin_!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535500253 238742 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1535500403 234781 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1535500774 368001 :shikhin_!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin
< 1535500973 389898 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@kite.riseup.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535502137 182761 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1535503219 204032 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.2.151 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1535503465 52211 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just did poke 0,0 in a C64 emulator in BASIC. Shouldnt that ruin something?
< 1535503485 68119 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should swap out KERNAL and BASIC ROM I believe, why is BASIC still functioning?
< 1535503519 522156 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh it should be poke 1,0
< 1535503557 247853 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That kills it
< 1535503572 818204 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :poke 0,0 seems to protect against poke 1,0
< 1535503752 366749 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1535503763 790454 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgehello
< 1535503770 453238 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No olist today?
< 1535503871 888605 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not. Can't say for certain. Day's not over yet
< 1535504382 124583 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you prefer Ada or ALGOL 68?
< 1535504535 596504 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue QUIT :Quit: Temporarily refracted into a free-standing prism.
< 1535504601 464387 :Hoolootwo!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535504693 733767 :Hoolootwo!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue NICK :Hooloovo0
< 1535504869 517068 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll say Ada although I dont really know either. Ada supposedly has nice properties regarding correctness
< 1535504871 703043 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And readability
< 1535504882 300606 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1535504895 764288 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I know about Ada is, it has a nice name.
< 1535505138 804787 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1535505495 298364 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535505538 61465 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan bonsϿirjan. I haven't disturbed your ears in quite a while: https://youtu.be/X99D7lLDfwI
< 1535505538 137414 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1535505560 971794 :Gregor!~Gregor@2001:470:1:41:a800:ff:fe3e:ad41 QUIT :*.net *.split
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< 1535510609 429427 :esowiki!~esowiki@techne.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535510614 811575 :^[!sid43445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qmwzadzatvxgumgm JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535510748 770944 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hnlugxqoeolygmwf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://christianp.github.io/regex-fractals/
< 1535510837 946958 :^[!sid43445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qmwzadzatvxgumgm QUIT :Changing host
< 1535510837 947033 :^[!sid43445@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/sixth/zgrep JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1535514736 394983 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1535524050 235800 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hnlugxqoeolygmwf QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
> 1535525822 727135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07INTERCAL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57489&oldid=50612 5* 03Qpliu 5* (+110) 10/* External resources */
< 1535527151 297721 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535529140 201616 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcb1dmnmcpyztw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1535531259 228302 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be JOIN :#esoteric
> 1535533103 365352 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Far14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57490&oldid=56999 5* 03GibsonGeorge 5* (+178) 10Add print example
< 1535534699 988549 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's something fishy about my mental type checker.
< 1535534715 776503 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was having a lot of trouble understanding a type, and then I renamed a type variable from b to r, and then it all made perfect sense.
< 1535534895 419685 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is the type?
< 1535534921 709186 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype D f a = D (forall b. (a -> b) -> b -> f b) from Twitter
< 1535534940 964813 :rain1!~rain1@69.52.93.209.dyn.plus.net QUIT :Changing host
< 1535534940 964873 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535534979 467354 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's not the type checker but the understander, which is admittedly functionality GHC doesn't implement yet.
< 1535535054 839748 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i,i x : R -> R; x(f) = f^2
< 1535535087 293802 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gotta come to terms with your brain being nothing but a big pile o' heuristics
< 1535536821 637406 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: heh I'm in the same boat, that type is much more familiar with an 'r'.
< 1535536883 840665 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it becomes f (Maybe a) if f is a functor. Yay.
< 1535537011 55994 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conventions are powerful.
< 1535537042 121361 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Imagine it had been  newtype D a b = D (forall c. (b -> c) -> c -> a c)
< 1535537066 777106 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yzmjozmnnlfwbfnm JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535537252 19011 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Duck quack swim = Duck (forall eat. (swim -> eat) -> eat -> quack eat) -- duck typing version
< 1535537303 56754 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yzmjozmnnlfwbfnm QUIT :Client Quit
< 1535537362 523056 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: It's supposed to be a type derivative.
< 1535537373 450885 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that works if the second argument is linear?
< 1535537514 456225 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm. Linear as in "used exactly once"? Sure, then exactly one of the Maybe (in my mental model) is a hole.
< 1535537517 828247 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :err Nothing.
< 1535537554 796870 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. Which I'd wondered how to do before!
< 1535537628 468342 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I've thought about representing D f a as (a -o F a), but then you run into parametricity issues or something.
< 1535537965 440283 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/F/f/, I guess
< 1535538183 508220 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: Rebooting
> 1535538186 610679 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Functional()14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57491&oldid=57386 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+55) 10Added version info
> 1535538213 742818 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Functional()14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57492&oldid=57491 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+0) 10
< 1535538460 855426 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535538500 863125 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.2.151 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535538566 284042 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@185.131.67.115 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535538759 873630 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.2.151 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1535538880 219268 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535538933 637973 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: When writing my MsC-equivalent thesis in maths, I have spent a very large amount of time renaming variables so that the proof is more pleasant.
< 1535538997 291484 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that case, there were a lot of different variables, so I had to figure out how to rename them without any two clashing. I ended up without any two clashing in any one chapter, and without any two used in more than one chapter clashing.
< 1535539025 99906 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think there are a few that clash between chapter 2 and chapter 3.
< 1535539035 720676 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@185.131.67.115 PART :#esoteric
< 1535539050 955406 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@185.131.67.115 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535542954 672843 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1535543010 946501 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535543234 57533 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1535543421 833740 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535543499 461617 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Client Quit
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< 1535547432 995330 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@185.131.67.115 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
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< 1535547478 156818 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@185.131.67.115 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1535547500 659788 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@185.131.67.115 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1535549330 844264 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wxgljxvkhwlnytni JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535550218 318470 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900:8319:87ab:f00:d5de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535550661 662165 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535553339 416686 :SopaXT!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535553369 151669 :SopaXT!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1535553454 676800 :ep100!~max@196.42.114.70 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1535554795 328477 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1535556577 282229 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vxdalhczfenftrfw JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535556780 452444 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535557101 687350 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535557997 790436 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh what's this, https://www.gog.com/game/7_billion_humans ... a successor to the human resource machine, hmm
< 1535558317 519576 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's something to be said for Fortran 66's rule for implicit typing based on the variable's name
< 1535558422 342395 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the variables I J K L M N are implicitly integers, and all others are implicitly real
< 1535558451 337646 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless declared otherwise, that is
< 1535558502 689614 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcb1dmnmcpyztw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535558554 628005 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol even modern fortran does this
< 1535559975 649715 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
< 1535561806 657744 :arseniiv__!~arseniiv@145.255.2.151 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535561849 348515 :arseniiv__!~arseniiv@145.255.2.151 PART :#esoteric
< 1535561860 281517 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.2.151 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535562547 863098 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535563323 274515 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: hence: "God is real, unless declared integer."
< 1535563805 543205 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1535563953 336537 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1535564391 387065 :Guest56097!~G33kDude@c-174-53-70-27.hsd1.wv.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.1
< 1535564480 967647 :GeekDude!~G33kDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535566701 663634 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535566873 850247 :wob_jonas!b03f1921@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.33 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535567287 392234 :wob_jonas!b03f1921@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: and then older BASIC took the idea, only every variable defaults to single float, and you can override it either based on the starting letter with DEFINT/DEFSNG/DEFDBL/DEFSTR statements (so many programs start with DEFINT A-Z) or use postifx sigils ("%" for int, "!" for single, "#" for double, "$" for string), but not declare the types of i
< 1535567287 638423 :wob_jonas!b03f1921@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ndividual variables yet
< 1535567317 657686 :wob_jonas!b03f1921@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.33 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1535567779 301327 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535569861 594310 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)
< 1535571545 313958 :Shragazord!~quassel@bzq-109-67-85-18.red.bezeqint.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535571667 976273 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1535572932 662230 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-077-243-244.088.077.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Quit: thunderstorm
< 1535572979 975180 :MaximusBloo!~MaximusBl@197.0.81.66 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535573166 661799 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.2.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what’s funny VB6 (and at least some versions of VBA IIRC) has these sigils still (and some more like & for Long)
< 1535573259 248826 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.2.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :“still” is I mean they haven’t been dropped in VB5, VB4 etc.
< 1535573691 385418 :wob_jonas!b03f18f2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.242 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535573720 19355 :wob_jonas!b03f18f2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: yes, that's where I complained about VBA a few weeks ago
< 1535573771 960417 :wob_jonas!b03f18f2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: specifically I was trying to concatenate strings like "foo"&vbCrlf&"bar" but it turns out that doesn't work, you have to write "foo"&vbCrlf &"bar" or else the second & is parsed as a sigil rather than an operator
< 1535573862 54564 :wob_jonas!b03f18f2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even know before that that it had sigils, but it does
< 1535573882 382384 :wob_jonas!b03f18f2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can actually write DIM x% and it will be implicitly an integer
< 1535573896 580722 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.2.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. Although I had luck when I actually used VBA or VB6
< 1535573974 431555 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.2.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was unlucky on a whole other level — I was using VB6 because I hadn’t got anything else :D
< 1535574060 52846 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.2.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :“classes” there even have no inheritance(
< 1535574111 258742 :wob_jonas!b03f18f2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: did I mention that VBA has dictionaries, but no convenient way to sort anything?
< 1535574124 975756 :wob_jonas!b03f18f2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have to sort in VBA, you're screwed
< 1535574131 954947 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.2.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and overall the language is too verbose, and IDEs these times had not much autocompletion of statements
< 1535574144 942001 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.2.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I haven’t needed to sort, so I didn’t know
< 1535574160 984959 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.2.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dictionaries yes
< 1535574214 666946 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.2.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were several revelations those times. One was that with right method names, involving underscores and something, you could add an indexer to the class
< 1535574227 318710 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.2.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :other was importing WinAPI
< 1535574271 967061 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.2.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though P/Invoke db didn’t exist then. Or it did but I had no internet anyway :D
< 1535574451 283724 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.2.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :after VB, I was writing strange code in Delphi 7, some occasional C++ in a console IDE for some uni project and then there came enlightenment including Lua, C#, Python, Haskell and something. Now I know I was doing foolish things when I could be doing something more interesting way earlier(
< 1535574841 334122 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-077-243-244.088.077.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535575170 239681 :ep100!~max@105.227.153.254 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535575326 341746 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vxdalhczfenftrfw NICK :hey
< 1535575336 82377 :hey!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vxdalhczfenftrfw NICK :S_Gautam
< 1535575478 672552 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-fumbufowrxjilkfx QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
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< 1535576037 673514 :heroux_!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-ttzecwlfdanssgsq JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1535576805 141861 :MaximusBloo!~MaximusBl@197.0.81.66 PART :#esoteric
< 1535578996 435004 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900:8319:87ab:f00:d5de PART :#esoteric
< 1535579615 278812 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535581594 575115 :sumpfschlock!50900ec6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.144.14.198 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1535581955 635986 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Excess Flood
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< 1535582412 562665 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1535582832 885041 :sumpfschlock!~schlock@p200300C3AF2B2C16A3942AB234AA24BE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Quit: Using Circe, the loveliest of all IRC clients
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< 1535584598 712811 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-jzoaeqccxzbkbmun JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535584625 821836 :heroux_!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-txzancckbfweuqsy JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535585843 668342 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535585866 549099 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1138
< 1535585867 413024 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1138: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
< 1535585950 406144 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vxdalhczfenftrfw QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1535586349 704990 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 5913
< 1535586350 504123 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 5913: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
< 1535586361 453169 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :incorrect
< 1535586375 671820 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1 is clearly a time traveller
< 1535587086 509225 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.2.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist ω+1?
< 1535587087 206840 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist ω+1?: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
< 1535587091 83640 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.2.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooops
< 1535587152 27085 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow!
< 1535587175 439169 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can y'all stop pinging people needlessly?
< 1535587275 265335 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1535587354 701256 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.2.151 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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< 1535593226 630197 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-137-99.cdrr.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535593661 366283 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: BREACHING CHICKEN
< 1535594976 705815 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
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< 1535609272 746993 :J_Arcane!sid119274@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xicczvqpmgahqrha JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535611009 490329 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wxgljxvkhwlnytni QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
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< 1535616389 663662 :mmmnootka!~jw@162.219.176.21 PART :#esoteric
< 1535616994 242772 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A46C74.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1535619103 243323 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A46C74.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
> 1535624679 89368 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda Calculus to Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57493&oldid=57477 5* 03A 5* (-23) 10Suddenly discovered that I am not making a new language.
< 1535624912 709432 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( shachaf: no! )
> 1535625025 415199 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda Calculus to Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57494&oldid=57493 5* 03A 5* (-269) 10/* Bored? Let's enjoy an example */
> 1535625136 594389 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda Calculus to Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57495&oldid=57494 5* 03A 5* (-50) 10/* Try Again */
> 1535625176 349888 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda Calculus to Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57496&oldid=57495 5* 03A 5* (-7) 10
> 1535625216 223486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda Calculus to Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57497&oldid=57496 5* 03A 5* (-6) 10/* Calling Functions */
< 1535625243 703991 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric
> 1535625297 983010 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda Calculus to Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57498&oldid=57497 5* 03A 5* (-124) 10/* Anonymous functions */
< 1535626525 564041 :ep100!~max@105.186.82.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey guys. What are you all working on?
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< 1535639550 64611 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell boily bood afternoily. that was certainly disturbing.
< 1535639550 152166 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
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< 1535643703 869144 :fydel!~fydel@host86-138-97-219.range86-138.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))
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< 1535645326 303167 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera NICK :offesa
< 1535645379 41554 :offesa!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera NICK :izabera
< 1535645603 245169 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`smlist 481
< 1535645603 977986 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :smlist 481: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy Cale
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< 1535651209 869129 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1535654141 848969 :wob_jonas!b03f1861@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.97 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535654183 102401 :wob_jonas!b03f1861@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.97 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what I'm worried about, guys?
< 1535654243 906179 :wob_jonas!b03f1861@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.97 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm getting lots of different phishing spam, the really bad kind, in the name of the two banks I actually use through their online banking system, and very rarely in the name of any other banks.
< 1535654310 552134 :wob_jonas!b03f1861@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.97 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The phishing itself is worthless, I'm not going to fall for it. But I'm really trying to not make it easy to find out which two banks I use. I have mentioned the name of one of them in this channel, but very rarely, and not in any way that an automated spambot is likely to connect to me.
< 1535654336 823762 :wob_jonas!b03f1861@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.97 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody is likely to target me with phishing spam. It's definitely automated spambots in mass quantities that figured out which two banks I use. How do they know?
< 1535654345 708210 :wob_jonas!b03f1861@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.97 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not impossible to find out, but not easy either.
< 1535654348 108088 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :My trick is to have an account with every bank.
< 1535654357 90404 :wob_jonas!b03f1861@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.97 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: um...
< 1535654361 579489 :wob_jonas!b03f1861@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.97 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: isn't that expensive?
< 1535654405 576332 :wob_jonas!b03f1861@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.97 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: sure, it's probably cheap in *most* of the banks, but if you have an account with *every* bank, that's bound to cost you. you're not paying for the median.
< 1535654441 312079 :ep100!~max@105.186.82.228 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535654522 934632 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shouldn't the banks be paying me?
< 1535654571 274913 :ep100!~max@105.186.82.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should be paying me honest to god?
< 1535654576 816851 :wob_jonas!b03f1861@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.97 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: some of them, sure. but not so much that you win in gross total.
< 1535654622 896130 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I'll only have accounts with 5-10 banks or something.
< 1535655425 76190 :wob_jonas!b03f1861@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.97 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that's more reasonable.
< 1535655434 409099 :MDead!~MDude@97-127-137-99.cdrr.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535655438 137553 :wob_jonas!b03f1861@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.97 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can believe that, and so can the spambots.
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< 1535655549 431267 :MDead!~MDude@97-127-137-99.cdrr.qwest.net NICK :MDude
< 1535655584 408288 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spambots don't send me spam from any of those banks, though, I think.
< 1535655603 970125 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you count spambots operated by the banks themselves, in which case they often send me spam that I can't opt out of.
< 1535655626 385662 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example one of them keeps sending me emails about their mobile app, which I already have installed.
< 1535655650 645631 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They say it's sent as part of our existing business relationship (and so presumably exempt from CAN-SPAM?).
< 1535656020 141810 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1535656178 601529 :wob_jonas!b03f1861@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.97 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the spam is not *from* any bank. it's just *in the name* of the bank. and it's a very weak pretense.
< 1535656206 132209 :wob_jonas!b03f1861@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.97 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: and yes, I also get a few emails from the bank, but those don't bother me, unlike the phishing sent in their name.
< 1535656690 43056 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand.
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< 1535677740 339236 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell wob_jonas That phishing sounds strange, unless you happen to use the two most common banks in hungary, in which case spammers _might_ do so by accident?
< 1535677740 428784 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1535679263 261654 :genera!~genera@211.176.110.118 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1535690041 49722 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not sure what the interface should be in my SQLite graphics extension for making pie charts and stuff like that, considering there are many options that you may wish to set.
< 1535690124 949486 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know? (I thought they could be aggregate functions, but other than that I don't know how should the options to be put in, and some other stuff)
< 1535691261 458346 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
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< 1535695253 754021 :oldschool^28!~oldschool@200.196.36.190 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535695404 809350 :oldschool^28!~oldschool@200.196.36.190 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1535697337 300162 :deltab!~deltab@ds6266.dedicated.turbodns.co.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: aggregate functions make sense for that. options could be passed as JSON
< 1535699255 876878 :morsik28!~morsik@ppp-119-76-162-226.revip17.asianet.co.th JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1535701564 664418 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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< 1535703203 200517 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net QUIT :Quit: the creeping crawling chaos will return.
< 1535703802 391533 :ep100!~max@105.184.214.56 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1535710285 534663 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1535711890 861550 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.2.151 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535712735 696390 :copumpkin[m]!copumpkinm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-aconrckwdqxrimrg QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1535712867 908427 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1535712892 869880 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535713185 840606 :copumpkin[m]!copumpkinm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-lidpcxyhnwkuypyj JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1535716133 856794 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-opuipgaqovqxydgp JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1535719780 260608 :copumpkin[m]!copumpkinm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-lidpcxyhnwkuypyj QUIT :Write error: Connection reset by peer
< 1535720275 428755 :lynn_!sid154965@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zdwwqpewbpbmtblo QUIT :
< 1535720292 757243 :copumpkin[m]!copumpkinm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-smizxkckfqurantk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535720309 389763 :lynn!sid154965@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-laclxbirbdrilcfw JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535720479 515909 :Napsterbater!~Napsterba@p823114-ipbf203hiraide.tochigi.ocn.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535720766 374238 :Napsterbater!~Napsterba@p823114-ipbf203hiraide.tochigi.ocn.ne.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1535723170 706915 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :deltab: OK, JSON could make sense I suppose
< 1535724022 413873 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course, then I will need a JSON implementation in the extension)
< 1535724081 309504 :jwhisnant28!~jwhisnant@46.109.80.205 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535724411 990946 :jwhisnant28!~jwhisnant@46.109.80.205 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1535726187 988899 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is just the case of having to specify all of the options each time
< 1535726216 545961 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1535726296 520172 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also I don't know that I need such thing as nested objects, arrays, etc, for the options anyways)
< 1535726487 305166 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535726701 251552 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
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< 1535726852 923083 :ensyde!~ensyde@2.92.43.95 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1535732241 673103 :junction00!~junction0@xtp-56-ip37.atel76.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535732244 313470 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
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< 1535737992 303865 :Mony26!~Mony@31.59.29.143 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1535738424 321049 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.182.123 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535739035 674698 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.4.62.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535739103 240476 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.182.123 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1535744310 858513 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.141.237.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535744464 635004 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.4.62.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1535745210 518920 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1535745595 835408 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535745980 402081 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535751626 834565 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed PART :#esoteric
< 1535752107 817748 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.141.237.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolang ideas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autogram
< 1535753226 862133 :deltab!~deltab@ds6266.dedicated.turbodns.co.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh, I was thinking of another dbms with a json type built in (though I see there is a loadable extension for sqlite)
< 1535753307 23060 :deltab!~deltab@ds6266.dedicated.turbodns.co.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively, another string format, or read options from a table
< 1535753345 134693 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :More options may be added later, and it is not convenient to enter all of the options every time even if changing only some, too
< 1535753918 892927 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What options do you think are needed? I thought of some, such as axis styles, grid lines, picture size, picture boundary, compositing mode (when you are making a scatter plot of pictures), etc
< 1535754177 249733 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should adding axis be a separate function?
< 1535755522 724961 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1535755547 292543 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535757540 744817 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1535758469 412222 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1535758682 965349 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1535759300 289148 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
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