< 1536537951 297638 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kirmbvuahxxifnzq JOIN :#esoteric < 1536538173 528377 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1536538198 44742 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1536538398 783907 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell wob_jonas Um, strangest so far, I must qualify. <-- i think the idiom "i've had the strangest ..." doesn't imply really being the strangest < 1536538398 961342 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1536538434 504754 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1536539262 428059 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url % < 1536539263 280560 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/file/tip/%25 < 1536539267 508916 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url # < 1536539268 397475 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/file/tip/%23 < 1536539446 203659 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used the mknod command to make extra copies of /dev/null, but how commonly are you going to use such things? Sometimes it is helpful if different filenames are needed but still needing to be null, but probably usually you don't need such thing. < 1536539990 998666 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do any television sets have a caption scrollback function? < 1536541047 507772 :pimlu!~pimlu@70-90-173-49-California.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1536541361 782148 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1536541511 833374 :pimlu!~pimlu@70-90-173-49-California.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1536541662 791895 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1536543608 833512 :pimlu!~pimlu@70-90-173-49-California.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1536544036 238884 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1536545497 736656 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1536545935 493413 :user24!~user24@p200300C3AF210E7544E6C1D332BD890A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1536546112 474257 :pimlu!~pimlu@70-90-173-49-California.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1536546203 322281 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1536546231 328470 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1536547671 729066 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1536547962 744990 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1536549820 429564 :pimlu!~pimlu@70-90-173-49-California.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1536549843 784948 :pimlu!~pimlu@70-90-173-49-California.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1536550128 491885 :pimlu!~pimlu@70-90-173-49-California.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1536550254 541654 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1536553961 603305 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1536554126 289994 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kirmbvuahxxifnzq QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1536554208 459046 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1536554659 629437 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read in some book of history of chess the possibility to derive chess moves from a magic square, but I do not know how. Do you know if such thing is possible, and if so, how? < 1536555774 813794 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ppp-103-253.dynamic.bellmts.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1536556613 356715 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nalmzcgvnoyqvmle JOIN :#esoteric < 1536556660 425452 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c193-150-228-32.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1536556671 197734 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c193-150-228-32.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Changing host < 1536556671 301600 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1536556952 365218 :pimlu!~pimlu@70-90-173-49-California.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1536557149 375128 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1536557284 220199 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1536557403 361300 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1536558903 306387 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1536559067 854243 :user24!~user24@p200300C3AF210E7544E6C1D332BD890A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1536559162 362248 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1536559354 825913 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1536559425 493147 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1536559813 292619 :pimlu!~pimlu@70-90-173-49-California.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1536561513 495819 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1536561540 386852 :trout!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1536562041 274446 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wnnuouaaxpkhigza QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1536562054 22024 :johnsonraj!~johnsonra@2402:3a80:e20:9be3:19a0:4f0e:106b:1864 JOIN :#esoteric < 1536562091 842638 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1536562129 210282 :johnsonraj!~johnsonra@2402:3a80:e20:9be3:19a0:4f0e:106b:1864 PART :#esoteric < 1536562380 878495 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1536562478 359008 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1536563694 800140 :trout!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1536563823 973763 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1536564063 597026 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Client Quit < 1536564600 752621 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zdn9kx2rnn81vw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1536565147 698488 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zdn9kx2rnn81vw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1536565219 402002 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1536565478 334654 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1536566044 495361 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1536566594 959874 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a JOIN :#esoteric < 1536566595 108125 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a QUIT :Changing host < 1536566595 108197 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1536566930 616930 :spiegelau!~spiegelau@82.144.205.57 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1536567014 773417 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1536568528 296673 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nalmzcgvnoyqvmle QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1536569753 45154 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1536571050 130412 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ybamgxyvyohckctw JOIN :#esoteric < 1536571733 495282 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1536571987 462047 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1536572205 897220 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1536572347 220041 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: chess and magic square => I haven't heard of such a thing, but tic-tac-toe can be played with a 3x3 magic square: instead of squares the players alternatingly play numbers from 1..9 inclusive that have not yet been played in the game, a player wins if that player has played any three numbers whose sum is exactly 15, and the game is draw if t < 1536572347 355262 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's no valid move. < 1536572431 760809 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I read that observation on tic tac toe from the book Csákány Béla, ''Diszkrét matematikai játékok'', but it might not be original to that < 1536572806 807192 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1536573533 397341 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@89.189.142.190.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1536573664 797260 :linxsd!~user@183.202.164.30 JOIN :#esoteric < 1536573696 46842 :linxsd!~user@183.202.164.30 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1536574339 553886 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Ustin.fitc 5* 10New user account < 1536574494 314200 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: re browser url bar autocomplete, try to fiddle with the about:config settings containing urlbar. < 1536574511 697018 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's like a dozen booleans there, you just have to guess the right combination > 1536574674 328412 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57543&oldid=57541 5* 03Ustin.fitc 5* (+83) 10 < 1536574990 673825 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol. "Use of this site also constitutes acceptance of its Terms of Service and Privacy Policies, which are known to medical science as a cure for insomnia." < 1536575180 982064 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could have done with that last night... < 1536575193 272936 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Went to bed at half ten, didn't get to sleep until after 1 > 1536575199 251897 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:NULL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57544&oldid=8218 5* 03Ustin.fitc 5* (+569) 10/* Is that "Hello World" number correct? */ > 1536578893 544013 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:NULL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57545&oldid=57544 5* 03Ustin.fitc 5* (+491) 10 < 1536581196 921103 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1536584928 118717 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric < 1536586416 842901 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ikaxgumzqweoxovs JOIN :#esoteric < 1536586628 450388 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ybamgxyvyohckctw QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1536588937 746539 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds > 1536590617 577575 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ESOPUNK14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57546&oldid=57520 5* 03Blacksilver 5* (-94) 10Change the spec for I/O. > 1536590649 468286 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ESOPUNK14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57547&oldid=57546 5* 03Blacksilver 5* (-16) 10Moving the commands header to the subpage > 1536590665 759313 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ESOPUNK/Commands14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57548&oldid=57513 5* 03Blacksilver 5* (+16) 10 > 1536590714 664816 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ESOPUNK/Commands14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57549&oldid=57548 5* 03Blacksilver 5* (-2) 10ADDI does not concatenate keywords. < 1536591066 446767 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric < 1536591201 373397 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1536591910 597244 :pimlu!~pimlu@70-90-173-49-California.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1536592521 776695 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zdn9kx2rnn81vw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1536592686 452459 :pimlu!~pimlu@70-90-173-49-California.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1536593992 343718 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 JOIN :#esoteric < 1536595265 287867 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1536597867 541318 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1536600911 969827 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a JOIN :#esoteric < 1536600912 107498 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a QUIT :Changing host < 1536600912 107552 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1536601025 359775 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1536601961 727078 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1536601984 455979 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohi < 1536602036 670368 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I understand why Wizards wants to put "Ravnica" in the set names, but don't you think that "Guilds of Ravnica" and "Ravnica Allegiance" are a bit confusing as set names because they're too similar to existing ones? < 1536602095 75046 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, I know "allegiance" means something different from "alliance" (which the Guildpact is) but still. < 1536602258 343424 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, can't they just find something _unique_ about that set that they can put in a concise set name? Those names would work for half of the previous six Ravnica sets. < 1536602304 879720 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Guilds of Ravnica" -- Ravnica is returning. And, guess what, it's returning and showing that it has _guilds_. What a surprise. < 1536602418 291057 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wizards is usually creative in giving card names < 1536602582 307944 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I know they have over 200 set names by now, but if they can find over 10000 unique English card names (does anyone happen to know if it's reached 20000 yet?), how can set names be harder? < 1536602722 525249 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even with the fact that they may try to be more conservative, because a really bad set name could have a worse effect than a really bad card name. < 1536603328 888315 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there golf languages that try to support imperative style, as in, that have lots of built-ins to mutate mutable containers in place in various ways, as well as mutable global or scope-local variables, and control structures useful in such programs? This could be in addition or mixed with functional style in a less concise golf language like bur < 1536603329 23337 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lesque. < 1536603341 762798 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which golf languages are like that? < 1536603430 268007 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arthur Whitney's K could sort of count, but I'd like a bit more than that. < 1536603802 15495 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1536603953 800407 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1536604299 438118 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas, k basically doesn't support mutable objects at all < 1536604343 880942 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :mutable global variable bindings, sure, but that's very different < 1536604537 76766 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PH: doesn't it also have mutable local bindings, and... um, either mutable dictionaries passed by reference or cow-mutating operations on hashes? or something < 1536604557 581924 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's not really ideal, especially since it also has no closures, but still much better than what J has < 1536604581 750101 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'd like something more imperative-centered than K < 1536605132 720973 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have an authoritative source or anything but my strong impression after working on it for a year is that there is absolutely no mutation of anything anywhere < 1536605155 764995 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1536605169 277367 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :except perhaps as a transparent abstraction < 1536605189 308413 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's, like, all reference-counted and you can only mutate the root namespace, like in J? < 1536605194 673074 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1536605201 389701 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, J has a flat namespace hierarchy, but still < 1536605206 752228 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get the idea < 1536605209 280735 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1536605233 14188 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you can mutate function local variables and write while loops in functions < 1536605249 508263 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, like, from a performance/optimisation point of view you can't do anything that counts < 1536605257 611381 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1536605285 589842 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the function-local variables are on a plain stack, right? no mutable closures? < 1536605294 740506 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1536605298 964664 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :no closures at all < 1536605300 26879 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't understand how K's lambdas and local variables actually work < 1536605327 249008 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :local variables are absolutely local to one function, if you want them passed down the stack they have to be passed explicitly as arguments < 1536605335 919596 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy to understand tbh because it's totally bare-bones < 1536605361 620504 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1536605389 414893 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1536605395 109977 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :k function objects are basically maximally stripped down for interpreter simplicity and the semantics reflect that < 1536605418 155306 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how do verbs formed by binding like (+1) behave? can you assign them to a value? what happens if you try to write something like p:(+k) where k is not a number but a local variable? < 1536605442 452325 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because J at least has immutable closures formed by binding < 1536605451 932859 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not by lambda expressions, only by binding) < 1536605535 690310 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and... well, it's complicated. actually there's like fifty primitive ways to compose stuff, but the point is, they are always immutable, but they do effectively capture some constants) < 1536605608 254002 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and how some of it works isn't explained well in tutorials, but I think I understand most of it from experiments, and could explain it, except for how namespaces work, where I only have guesses) < 1536605618 760581 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :partial application is just an object with a tag saying 'this is a partial application' and then a list of (function;arg1;arg2;etc...) < 1536605648 181349 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can return it and bind it and whatever the same as any other object < 1536605713 950062 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PH: so you can create, at runtime without eval, an array containing multiple instances of syntactically the same binding but capturing different constants, like an array of length 1000 whose first element is (+0) and second element is (+1) and so on with code much shorter than 1000, and then shuffle that array and invoke any of the captures form th < 1536605714 80338 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at array? < 1536605740 621023 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1536605773 183021 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. I sort of have the impression that such manipulations have a more easy syntax to write in K than in J, even if the power is effectively the same. < 1536605776 646188 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :q)(rand (+)@'til 10)5 < 1536605776 740281 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :13 < 1536605796 985481 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's q not k ofc. < 1536605845 802907 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :(*1?+@'!10)5 in k < 1536605869 103207 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, K has nice dictionaries, immutable according to what you said, but still, that's nice and not easy to emulate in J < 1536605888 13104 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I know how K dictionaries work, but still < 1536605954 927043 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're lists but indexed by arbitrary objects rather than ints, basically < 1536605965 84209 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they sound convenient < 1536605967 71147 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :except with some weird fuckery if you're stupid enough to use lists as your indices < 1536605968 532138 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for brevity < 1536606022 764474 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing k does that maybe other APLoids don't (idk) is that function application, list indexing and dict lookup are the exact same operation < 1536606027 623722 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? but aren't most of the composite objects lists or dictionaries? that makes it sound like you can only use numbers or characters or dictionaries as keys < 1536606060 286650 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you use atoms as keys dict lookup will automatically vectorise < 1536606079 37035 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. (`a`b`c!1 2 3) `a`b ==> 1 2 < 1536606159 409145 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :you definitely *can* use composite objects as keys but you will prob. shoot yourself in the foot unless you do so in a regimented way < 1536606193 319279 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at one point I was thinking of a hypothetical extension of J that would support first-class mutable cells, but with refcounting only like in perl (this would be a small extension over what namespaces can already do, so needs little syntax, but a new basic atom type), < 1536606204 947260 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmao right check this shit out: < 1536606217 875790 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :q)((`d`e;`a;`b;`c)!1 2 3 4)`a`b < 1536606217 969582 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :0N < 1536606231 455009 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :q)((`a;`b;`c;`d`e)!1 2 3 4)`a`b < 1536606231 549019 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 2 < 1536606238 582275 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :q)((`a;`b;`c;`d`e)!1 2 3 4)`d`e < 1536606238 676497 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :0N 0N < 1536606244 886681 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also a first-class lambda expressions (this one needs a new syntax rule that makes the syntax impractical to describe in the terms the J dictionary uses, but can still be made fully backwards compatible, and also matching the spirit) < 1536606247 307482 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :q)((`d`e;`a;`b;`c)!1 2 3 4)`d`e < 1536606247 401481 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1536606264 240023 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :like many edge-cases in k it basically comes down to pure guesswork < 1536606339 871731 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I don't really understand K to know what's you're trying there. (`a;`b;`c;`d`e) makes a list whose last element is a list, the first four elements are symbols. But what does ! do there? < 1536606504 109386 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check the manual... < 1536606770 247286 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um... I don't understand even after checking the manual. It seems as if you're calling ! dyadically with the left argument (`d`e;`a;`b;`c) and the right argument (1 2 3 4) . But the K manual seems to imply that that's not defined, ! is only defined if either the left or the right argument is a number atom. < 1536606773 330022 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that some Q addition? < 1536606780 352174 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or am I parsing something wrong? < 1536607238 554941 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas, list!list creates a dictionary < 1536607246 80458 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the left list as the keys and the right as the values < 1536607251 820700 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1536607255 564468 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is that a Q addition? < 1536607285 998190 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know where the full Q manuals are, if they exist < 1536607296 763445 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they're not available for free < 1536607299 19081 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's k < 1536607307 102848 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1536607312 880671 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :q docs are all here http://code.kx.com/q/ < 1536607329 988085 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that k3, k4 and k5/k6 are all significantly different languages < 1536607363 664793 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :and k4 is the undocumented implementation language for q (but all the operators are the same, at least in their 2-argument form) < 1536607382 857080 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's bad, because I'm looking at this old short K2 reference manual < 1536607474 543612 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so in Q, (.) or (@) aren't the most overloaded verbs, (!) is? interesting < 1536607609 5411 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow. that looks... historically related to K, but very different at the same time < 1536607617 595837 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, it probably evolved in steps from K < 1536607631 914673 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the end result is hard to recognize < 1536607794 139766 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think ? or $ are the most overloaded when you factor in the triadic and tetradic forms and all the per-type overloads < 1536607815 467445 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :and \ technically isn't a verb but does a ridiculous variety of shit < 1536607876 23998 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, Q looks like a bigger and more complicated language than K < 1536607884 840992 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with lots more builtins < 1536607904 78580 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i think the additions mostly fall under < 1536607938 185245 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) bunch of verbs which are predefined k functions < 1536607980 869912 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) rudimentary standard library in the .Q namespace < 1536607990 66582 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :3) q-sql syntax for table manipulation < 1536608147 819189 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps Q's creators felt nostalgy for some old APLs that were full of special cases in all sorts of orthogonal directions, and wanted to recreate that general feelintg < 1536608228 332154 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i get the impression k has always made heavy use of overloading operators to do completely orthogonal things based on type < 1536608300 548113 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and either it makes a worse job hiding that complexity than J, or I absorbed how crazy J actually is (despite how the manuals try to imply it's simple and regular) slowly over years, and K presents much of it naked in a manual < 1536608387 185768 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i look at j docs i'm struck by the giant zoo of operators < 1536608432 438455 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :vs k which only really has the ones above the number keys < 1536608523 36692 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I've seen other programming language evovle towards being more complex over 15 or 20 years, even if they start out as trying to be simple. < 1536608569 794217 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find J ugly too, but _not_ because of the zoo of operators you first see, but because of the stuff that's more hidden < 1536608576 442119 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: most golf languages are stack-based, they tend to be bad at named mutable globals (rather, you just keep changing the same stack slot repeatedly) < 1536608605 757853 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the more advanced ones often use some sort of SSA, which is good for writing imperative code despite the lack of named globals < 1536608643 902378 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the zoo of operators doesn't look too bad if you just think of it as a prelude or core library < 1536608650 380059 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with strange names < 1536608771 622634 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1536608790 498634 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :well k also very much does not have j's love for pointfree style < 1536608800 950699 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what is "SSA"? < 1536608807 371478 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :single static assignment < 1536608810 866605 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :single static assignment < 1536608816 384423 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wikipedia article is pretty good, worth reading < 1536608824 996721 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's imperative-ish but each variable gets a new name each time you assign to it < 1536608841 976596 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :also fun fact: go didn't have it for the first few years of its existence despite it being standard practice for compilers for decades < 1536608857 569510 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :because go really was written by idiots whose brains are stuck in 1979 < 1536608872 97625 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes imperative programs much easier to read about < 1536608874 978647 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*reason about < 1536608883 70103 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you can effectively talk about a particular "version of a variable" < 1536608898 402155 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a pain to write manually so it's normally only seen in compiler backends < 1536609021 217037 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1536609057 225034 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess another way to think about it is that SSA does for data what continuation passing style does for control flow < 1536609303 584052 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. I more or less know what that is, because mathematics proofs are usually written with SSA syntax, and I've seen quite a few of those, I just didn't know the name. < 1536609385 454524 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"proofs are usually written with SSA syntax" - no? < 1536609388 175886 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, technically you have to be careful with that, to make sure there's no dependence loops, and everything you define in crazy infinite loop form can be translated to proper transfinite induction and transfinite recursion and stuff < 1536609441 911356 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :This really doesn't match my experience. Not even in a formalization context. < 1536610302 712699 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: well proofs tend not to repeatedly redefine the same term to mean something new < 1536610439 75470 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, although they can shadow names by using the same letter for an entirely new variable when it doesn't cause a confusion, assign values localized into a foreach-exists arbitrarily nested scope, or define indexed sequences recursively as long as there's no dependence loops to translate an imperative loop without reassigning < 1536610440 958193 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, but IME they most of the text is actually about establishing properties and relationships. The SSA is an almost insignificant fragment. < 1536610502 588963 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shrugs
< 1536610537 327388 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: we were probably reading the same general style of mathematics, but viewing it from a different angle < 1536610571 478730 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have different intuitions of the same thing < 1536614833 337936 :bradcomp!~bradcomp@38.104.142.186 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1536615417 285971 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed PART :#esoteric < 1536615534 812458 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1536616600 8859 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1536616635 363100 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1536616763 894907 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1536617128 397553 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1536617441 408333 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c193-150-228-32.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1536617441 543370 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c193-150-228-32.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Changing host < 1536617441 543422 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1536617445 453537 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT : < 1536617691 688935 :rainbowfossil!c053e4f5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.83.228.245 JOIN :#esoteric < 1536617694 815486 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zdn9kx2rnn81vw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1536618259 407047 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1536618388 946925 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1536618925 779980 :rainbowfossil!c053e4f5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.83.228.245 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1536621586 641111 :wob_jonas!b03f1916@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.22 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1536623800 476672 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer