< 1541118125 300360 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1541118179 383186 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541119223 45778 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1541119308 353213 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1541119593 93361 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58177&oldid=58176 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+2) 10Undo revision 58176 by [[Special:Contributions/ZM|ZM]] ([[User talk:ZM|talk]]) (No fair undoing *all* the moves. Also, we have a tradition to sort some "1337" names as if they were spelled normally, but maybe not consistently.) < 1541119710 707392 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1541121455 219913 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1541121979 381404 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1541121984 964397 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1541122807 539188 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm writing a emulator for the MC88110. Someone please slap me. < 1541123479 959664 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@slap moony < 1541123480 89810 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION loves moony , so no slapping < 1541123491 389743 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, didn't work < 1541123547 440939 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1541123574 686204 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1541123595 815407 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know how to uncook Magic: the Gathering puzzles? < 1541124058 340640 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1541124259 461427 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1541124788 350449 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1541125775 220267 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1541126166 141311 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jfjatvxpkyaqfixz QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1541131201 926333 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Quit: Laa shay'a waqi'un moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine < 1541131653 479045 :MDead!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541131821 747477 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1541131828 479510 :MDead!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1541136552 370648 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1541137488 326438 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-76-126-180-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541137547 859234 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-76-126-180-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1541138689 373377 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bmevfhggbkgmonzq JOIN :#esoteric < 1541144087 42778 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1541144099 783723 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541151871 308454 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bmevfhggbkgmonzq QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1541161701 759406 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wyimnwmruiopstmc JOIN :#esoteric < 1541165597 350450 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed JOIN :#esoteric < 1541166323 276897 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541171362 311491 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541171371 99520 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenBSD has an assembler for the MC88100. yaaaay < 1541171382 930749 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So i have a reference point that I can use to crosscheck everything now < 1541171420 862959 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/syuu1228/openbsd-src/tree/ca0d3073d059b7237a1392dde772265698465272/sys/arch/m88k <<< Reference point! :D < 1541171892 326157 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541171899 951002 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hello. what do you mean by uncook? < 1541171945 923087 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi wob_jonas < 1541171998 458758 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi moony_. why are you writing an emulator, and are you at least making it very efficient and microoptimized? < 1541172065 136371 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I plan on it, yes < 1541172077 335911 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1541172091 11819 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i also have to make it accurate as possible, because otherwise it'd be a crappy emulator of an obscure system, and no-one else would be there to make a good one < 1541172108 371054 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but are you also putting on some impractical constraints that make the micro-optimization hard to do and a waste of your time? < 1541172137 774570 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: no. Cache emulation in this case, for example, is actually easy and fast (Only 128 lines), so a modern CPU can easily pull it off. < 1541172161 795891 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the entire 88k cache, with it's status info, easily fits into a modern CPU's cache < 1541172204 701404 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even then, emulating 192 different registers with only 16 registers is kinda hard :P (two sets of 64 control registers, 32 GPR, and 32 80-bit FPR) < 1541172242 717947 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CPU only runs at 50MHZ, but it runs 2 instructions per cycle optimally, so I have to be careful anyways < 1541172247 979477 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want it to run at full speed accurately < 1541172288 849075 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :w-b_jonas: I mean to make the altered version of the puzzle which avoids the cook, which should keep the proper solution or pretty close, and should also try to retain the theme if possible < 1541172309 73090 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: if you're curious, here's the MC88K serie's manuals: http://www.bitsavers.org/components/motorola/88000 < 1541172349 699650 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony_: do you have any programs that run on that MC88110 that you'll be able to run with this emulator? < 1541172370 404955 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ah, de-cheese the puzzle. I see. < 1541172456 232884 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541172487 292089 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony__: do you have any programs that run on that MC88110 that you'll be able to run with this emulator? < 1541172496 956708 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: OpenBSD, duh < 1541172503 34512 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenBSD has a port, hence why i noted it < 1541172506 634632 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1541172510 167097 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can use it as my testcase < 1541172531 595163 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also has an assembler and GCC port avaliable, but i'm rolling my own anyways because i can < 1541172567 254421 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1541172583 888914 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony_: you have checked that Bellard doesn't happen to have an accurate emulator for this system, right? < 1541172596 762207 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've looked everywhere :P < 1541172610 624588 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure, if it runs openbsd, then it has to have a gcc port < 1541172646 191112 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :openbsd is implemented mostly in C < 1541172655 607702 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea < 1541172662 46210 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't mean that it's a well-maintained recent gcc port of course < 1541172675 163450 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just some gcc port that could more or less compile some stuff at some point < 1541172693 517518 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a wizard knew how to invoke it < 1541172694 113625 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main difficulty with the 88k is that it supports multicore, but the way it does it is unusual these days: Each "core" is a seperate physical chip < 1541172711 35162 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not that unusual really < 1541172723 260915 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we only had to put them on the same chip because clock frequencies got faster, < 1541172729 464206 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mm. < 1541172748 453704 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'm showing my age < 1541172763 983228 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still in highschool, so maybe you are. < 1541172785 462729 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean sure, these days in mobile phones you put everything in one chip, memory and all < 1541172824 915358 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that didn't make sense back when I was young, because individual chip designs cost a lot to start to make, and once they started they could make as many as they wanted for cheap, it's making the design that was hard < 1541172863 236201 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is also why ROMs were a bit expensive, so video games could only be produced in large numbers, and there were no large enough volatile memories yet < 1541172873 861771 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so casettes and disks were eventually used as a workaround < 1541172894 456213 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by disks I mean floppy disks, and eventually CDs < 1541172922 368598 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like for the famicom < 1541172955 821301 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oldest thing we have in my house is a gamecube < 1541172957 609342 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1541172979 991563 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a famicom or other old hardware either < 1541172995 883379 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not as a physical system at least, I can run emulated old systems obviously < 1541173012 846386 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even have a floppy drive anymore, I got rid of it < 1541173028 265948 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, this computer I'm sitting at is old, but it's nowhere near that old < 1541173073 316533 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only like 8 years old or something < 1541173093 266597 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :was a great top quality computer back when I got it < 1541173098 152101 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it's very obsolete < 1541173122 679080 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish i remembered my XBOX Live password for my 360 < 1541173137 112934 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because my account has Marble Blast Ultra installed, and guess what: Ultra is no longer for sale anywhere < 1541173143 8187 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1541173165 276122 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :get a copy in an illegal way then, if you're sure you've already bought it legally < 1541173179 959820 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or use their customer service to reset the password of your account < 1541173204 437741 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I literally don't know anything related to the account anymore < 1541173208 7400 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even the email used < 1541173209 164775 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably only need to know your name and password and ask them on phone on workdays during business times < 1541173209 253549 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1541173215 395697 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1541173226 224670 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/name and password/name and birth date/ < 1541173230 168886 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that how it works? < 1541173237 137822 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idk, I'll check when i get home < 1541173342 462699 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but getting an illegal copy of the software from the internets might still be simpler < 1541173362 554698 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mk < 1541173391 965498 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, you'd better ask someone who actually knows something about nintendo or game systems, rather than me < 1541173407 471766 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/nintendo/microsoft/ < 1541173412 74166 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that < 1541173414 14061 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't matter much anyways < 1541173422 531197 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only own a nintendo game boy, no other game system < 1541173443 735946 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from that, at home I only play video games on a PC < 1541173445 613364 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Marble It Up!, a spiritual successor to the Marble Blast series (Gold and Ultra), is coming out for PC soon < 1541173455 399285 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I've played quite a lot on other people's game systems of all brands < 1541173458 316563 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's enough for me < 1541173482 411075 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not all brands < 1541173501 987592 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've played on nintendo, sega, and sony, but not on microsoft ones IIRC < 1541173526 675937 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"spiritual successor" is ... somewhat broad. < 1541173574 107417 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the game has the same concept and design as the original Marble Blast games, even people from the original dev team helped < 1541173581 36561 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could say it's similar to what Sonic Mania is for sonic. < 1541173727 168828 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a TRUE successor only because GarageGames, the company that owns Marble Blast, doesn't seem to want a new Marble Blast game, probably because of the now small market < 1541173733 415372 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1541173774 769791 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1541173777 468587 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? keenlist < 1541173778 366791 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :keenlist is notification for when Tom Hall acquires the necessary intellectual property rights to create the videogame series Commander Keen: The Universe is Toast < 1541173801 933276 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the owner of the brand isn't selling the rights, despite that they have no use for it < 1541173811 443010 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much < 1541173832 191010 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so instead of one good officially sanctioned games, there are only a lot of fan-made games < 1541173876 80656 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but none of them made by such a game developer genius as Tom Hall < 1541173912 507952 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the good ones are just modifications of the original games with new graphics and levels < 1541173936 101622 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is certainly not what Tom Hall would do if he was allowed to make a new game < 1541173951 596873 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, they can still be good games < 1541173956 902672 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just not the same thing < 1541174493 77309 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony__: at some point, please publish this emulator thing somewhere public, and tell this channel about it too < 1541174504 548129 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I plan on it < 1541174534 289067 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of my silly ideas was to try and make it connect to this channel and let you run stuff on it :P < 1541174572 116858 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice. I've done that once, but I haven't written the emulator, I only wrote the connection, and I ran it on a side channel because it was too noisy < 1541174582 298475 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know. that DOS bot :P < 1541174600 892096 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was so curious i made a lot of said noise :P < 1541174610 459106 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to point to schmorp's two crazy projects each one emulating an old system with a cpu: http://blog.schmorp.de/2015-06-08-emulating-linux-mips-in-perl-1.html http://blog.schmorp.de/2015-11-10-emulating-vt102-hardware-in-perl-1.html < 1541174689 257611 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glad i learned perl recently < 1541174694 16329 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I like perl now. Send help) < 1541174696 799766 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also to this year's IOCCC winner by Christopher Mills http://www.ioccc.org/years.html#2018_mills < 1541174711 469464 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony_: I can't really. I hate perl, but I can't stop using it < 1541174723 549232 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely look at ioccc/2018/mills if you haven't, it's very crazy < 1541174730 580123 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl 6 has a lot of nice things < 1541174741 597367 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl 6? ok, now you need help < 1541174752 943886 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl 6 is bad for you, stop. < 1541174767 751340 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's true. < 1541174768 246908 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1541174773 536377 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl 6 is slow < 1541174783 986962 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just use it for quick tasks, like i would with perl < 1541174785 798394 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you tied in a room and is someone focing you to type "Perl 6 has a lot of nice things" under duress? can you give an address? < 1541174809 604836 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well i'm an insane codegolfer. Sorry, i'm sitting in a study hall typing that, no duress here < 1541174811 487318 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least a country < 1541174828 927597 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find writing x86-64 fun. < 1541174840 952204 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe there are charity organizations offering help for addiction issues available in your country < 1541174853 654284 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is literally prototyping the cache lookup function at this second < 1541174859 380846 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION in x86-64 < 1541174864 322899 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no problem with writing x86_64, that can be fun < 1541174873 989814 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :golfing it can be awful < 1541174875 36632 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1541174879 489017 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only what you said about perl 6 that scares me < 1541174889 119649 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no u < 1541174905 696098 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, me too, and I'm seeing a psychologist about all the issues I have < 1541174917 48468 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here, to prove my insanity: The main reason i'm writing this massive emulator project is so i can do codegolf with it < 1541174934 526345 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so that's why you want an _accurate_ emulator. that's a good reason < 1541174944 111928 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1541174965 20811 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That, and a real MVMe board, or designing my own board, would cost a fortune. So real hardware is out of the question < 1541174980 645136 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless someone gifts me one haha (Like that would ever happen) < 1541175036 907001 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure! I'm a software guy, I think writing custom software on very powerful PCs is the solution to everything, and often consider custom hardware projects crazy when it seems like they could be replaced by a five line perl script < 1541175051 734541 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, i plan on learning how to make custom hardware anyways < 1541175061 378022 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not perl, whatever, a software solution on a PC they already have < 1541175065 401327 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe someday i COULD make a real system using the 88k if i want to < 1541175077 200580 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, a 88110 only goes for $20 on ebay, because no-one wants them < 1541175078 966349 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm tolerant, just because I think they're crazy I won't try to stop them < 1541175088 596513 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's their free time and they choose to spend it however they like < 1541175111 626063 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's a useful hobby to get into hardware and later design actually useful big hardware, one that does something that you can't just do with a simple program on a PC < 1541175114 945631 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder what happened to #asm < 1541175119 350700 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's become invite only < 1541175126 392003 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanted to check if cmp was slower than test < 1541175142 966443 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony__: it's forwarded to ##asm < 1541175153 366880 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1541175162 853721 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ##asm says i'm banned. I blame freenode mask. < 1541175165 101981 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1541175179 114788 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check < 1541175223 749578 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me see which ban mask you match < 1541175236 132387 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1541175252 924691 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony__: ":card.freenode.net 367 nc_jonas ##asm *__*!*@* card.freenode.net 1535082016" < 1541175261 733633 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP < 1541175262 703068 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: renick yourself < 1541175272 276088 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 NICK :moony2 < 1541175301 661259 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that help? < 1541175333 25681 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1541175412 673838 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that usually IRC allows you to query the ban list even if you're banned from the channel < 1541175426 312602 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you meet this sort of thing you can check this yourself too < 1541175431 938904 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I don't want to help, just saying < 1541175457 120577 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541175529 297703 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: anyway, no, I don't know how to de-cheese M:tG puzzles. you can try to ask ais523 < 1541175621 773720 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, yes, I should continue doing the Oracle dump thingy < 1541175627 228662 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1541176045 972260 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1541176479 222899 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541176666 623465 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1541178551 190818 :moony2!4b6c6ba6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.108.107.166 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1541178717 504492 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1541178889 517826 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Temporal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58178&oldid=58076 5* 03Plokmijnuhby 5* (-265) 10On second thoughts, I'm making it more like Underload. < 1541179229 57027 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1541180239 881779 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541180264 863123 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1541180287 407710 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-223-124.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541182516 896836 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1541184538 305327 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@unaffiliated/bowserinator QUIT :Excess Flood < 1541184568 562114 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@unaffiliated/bowserinator JOIN :#esoteric < 1541187752 884826 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1541188023 455614 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh a time-travelling language < 1541188109 91960 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me it seems at least a part of these should be equivalent to languages abusing amb or other such nondeterministic retcon stuff < 1541188209 654424 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I occasionally unforgot about Riemann surfaces: these time-travelling programs could essentially run not on a linear time but some more exotic like two interdependent universes < 1541188267 488045 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you think? < 1541188288 309991 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay I’m going to the past to give myself an idea < 1541188350 363766 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages? < 1541188350 454801 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, no messages today. < 1541188657 43995 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh lambdabot oh dear / it’s such a thing unclear / to me if you time-travel / or not; I hit the gravel < 1541188745 102906 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be nice and all / if you could send me something / from future times to now / because I’ve lost the rhyme < 1541189479 807071 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some television shows have popup messages. Can you get rid of them by recording from multiple channels and then some computer program can be used to fix them? < 1541189788 316902 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.3.189 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1541190433 318664 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541190495 902645 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bought myself a frame for eyeglasses! I had my doubts, but I think I chose right. Unless this one is unsuitable somehow, I shall have a fancy new pair of eyeglasses ready by christmas 2018 the latest. < 1541190661 654598 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1541194350 422060 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright, i have a good idea of what i do need and what i don't for a fairly accurate emulator (Mostly™ cycle accurate). But first, nostalgia trip. < 1541194538 403560 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: what peripherials are you planning to support? < 1541194564 694440 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Serial, SCSI drive, and maybe a display. < 1541194570 988880 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really just adding stuff as needed < 1541194572 317796 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1541194586 537818 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow nice < 1541194601 173566 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no floppy or casette? or the floppy or casette is on SCSI? < 1541194618 971875 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the MC88100, like it's cousin (the M68k), uses memory mapped peripherals, so i can just put less accurate peripheral emulation in another thread and call it a day < 1541194631 293701 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCSI drive <<< yes < 1541194631 888112 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you can have a SCSI floppy drive, and you probably don't even need to make the implementation for that yourself. < 1541194669 131521 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :memory mapped peripherials still need some magic by the emulator for controlling the memory mapping < 1541194712 407976 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea, but the emulator otherwise doesn't care much about what the peripheral IS < 1541194792 827618 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1541194807 215024 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily the peripherial and the OS do most of the work < 1541194815 283282 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1541194843 624065 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, serial line is definitely practical, it's easy to get working and a good way to interact with the program running in your emulated box < 1541194854 628885 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I used serial console for termbot too < 1541194882 218576 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's why you couldn't use the many DOS programs that insist on communicating directly through keyboard and display < 1541194901 734388 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most DOS programs are optimized for that, they don't do both because that would cost resources < 1541194939 905827 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, compared to the time needed to look up memory mapping info and emulate the cache, saying "ok forward this to a async buffer on a IO device" is cheap as hell < 1541194966 73090 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and these programs I ran were written in the PC era, when a working display (CGA or monochrome) and PC-like keyboard was standard for computers < 1541194971 434474 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for DOS computers that is) < 1541195002 257417 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the display and keyboard (and mouse) is just more versatile than a serial console < 1541195007 707577 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fast too < 1541195017 853842 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: sure < 1541195066 772092 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: so have you found good enough technical documentation about the CPU and motherboard that you can use for writing this emulator without having to guess too much? < 1541195085 365867 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The CPU's own manual is great. :P < 1541195098 73151 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a paperback copy of the MC88100 manual in my possession. < 1541195112 999198 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1541195124 67237 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about the motherboard, including memory and IO connections? < 1541195134 271668 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :MVMe boards will be a lot harder. I'll probably have to guess at it using what openbsd has in code < 1541195161 344756 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of memory management does this cpu have? < 1541195174 614658 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Block management and Page management are both supported < 1541195185 52641 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can be interchanged < 1541195214 828771 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fast switch between user and system mode or between processes with different page tables? < 1541195222 177722 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, memory interface is where difficulty no 1 comes in: the CPU can swap between big and little endian at runtime with a single instruction < 1541195233 265778 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea, you can change the page table address < 1541195248 712360 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, how large are the virtual address space and the physical memory address space? < 1541195266 412493 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :physical is 32bit. < 1541195283 438335 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :virtual is also 32bit. Entire system is 32bit besides the ""GPU"" and FPU :P < 1541195304 244664 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1541195332 559179 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, FPU? < 1541195353 580981 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :FPU supports 80-bit precision. (That means i have to use x87 instructions, ewwww.) < 1541195372 644272 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the FPU required? can't you just omit it and have the software or OS emulate it? < 1541195384 279810 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and run mostly software that doesn't need it) < 1541195386 994050 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's built onto the chip < 1541195397 998471 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's required < 1541195401 647524 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1541195404 988314 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's off by default tho < 1541195423 995909 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i can pretend it doesn't exist for a very short amount of time :P < 1541195430 661322 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't technically _have_ to use x87 instructions, unless you want fast emulation for the FPU. you might choose to run programs that don't use the FPU much, in which case you can just do something slow. < 1541195448 297111 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanna try and make the FPU fast. :P < 1541195455 49535 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1541195456 503377 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll probably ignore it early on tho < 1541195464 710260 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that can be difficult or easy, depending on what the FPU is like < 1541195479 54693 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and its stupid arcane details too, the ones that rarely come up < 1541195495 601585 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still make an accurate emulation (whether in software or hardware) a pain in the ass < 1541195517 208725 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I plan on emulating the MC88110, because suprisingly enough it's *easier* to emulate than it's predecessor. You can pick out details about it here: http://bitsavers.org/components/motorola/88000/MC88110UM_88110_Users_Manual_1991.pdf < 1541195538 667480 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's predecessor doesn't have the ""GPU"", but it has *more* annoying to emulate quirks < 1541195616 153376 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't have that middle age feature where there's a mandatory delay so the result of an instruction can't be read by the next instruction, does it? < 1541195622 403595 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly because i have to care a lot more about processing order on the MC88100, because the FPU and the integer unit both share the same register file for some bizzare reason. < 1541195649 358034 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas, no. It has pipelining that handles that cleanly < 1541195684 734667 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the FPU and integer unit sharing a register file isn't a big problem. that's what new x86_64 cpus do too with its SSE registers < 1541195747 585969 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a problem when there's only one "slot" to use on said file. It's an exclusive or, either use the integer unit or the fpu, OR you can just have lots of pipeline stalls and lose CPU time < 1541195749 366493 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the SSE register ops are still mostly in different execution units, but it's the same register file and sheduling and decoding pipeline and memory/cache interface < 1541195776 559718 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the instruction set viewpoint it's different registers, but they're effectively handled by the same register file now in newer cpus < 1541195805 763383 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus, SSE instructions can offset the loss by their vastly greater throughput < 1541195824 17090 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't use to be that way in older x86_64, there used to be two or three register files, separate for index registers, integer vector registers, and float vector registers, but they got away from that in later archs < 1541195845 596433 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: not just greater throughput, but also in some areas better choice of instructions too these days < 1541195857 915666 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :also go look at the MC88100's bus < 1541195882 844528 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has two buses, the P and C bus. Each bus has to have it's own external MC88200 MMU in order to interface with the same data bus/ < 1541195884 611878 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're effectively the new general purpose registers, and the RBX etc series of 16 64-bit registers are the index registesr < 1541195925 304147 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not completely like that yet, there's still advantage to using the index registers for some general purpose computations because of the instruction encoding sometimes, but it's tending more towards the vectors < 1541195982 822012 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, in some rare cases you even want to use the vector registers to spill data into them from the index registers when you run out of the 16 index registers, because it's often handled more efficiently than the L1 cache or stack cache < 1541196035 530048 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :when intel/amd gives us dedicated instructions to spill indexes into vectors, i'll be happy < 1541196035 801226 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there are even very rare pathological cases when it's worth to spill data into the MMX registers in some crazy loops, though you probably specifically have to engineer the right kind of problem for that to come up < 1541196059 968737 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: they do have specific move and insert and uninsert instructions already, with sometimes short encodings < 1541196070 449830 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doublechecks < 1541196085 118601 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont remember x86-64 by the back of my hand, so i'm a derp sometimes :P < 1541196088 923562 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1541196097 892222 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and look at new enough documentation, not ancient stuff < 1541196104 271532 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it helps < 1541196110 572093 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could be wrong here too < 1541196115 904603 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually just use http://www.felixcloutier.com/x86/ < 1541196119 585314 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure there are such instructions, but I can be wrong about the details < 1541196136 670229 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :these days I look at the official Intel docs and Agner Fog's docs < 1541196147 253369 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to look at AMD's docs too, but these days prefer the Intel doc < 1541196151 455204 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :felix's are literally just autogenned from intel docs < 1541196160 421189 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with nicer formatting < 1541196183 9911 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways, you were correct. http://www.felixcloutier.com/x86/PINSRB:PINSRD:PINSRQ.html < 1541196183 753541 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: sure, but is it recent enough? does it at least show AVX2, even if not AVX512 yet? < 1541196202 953093 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's currently based on the may 2018 edition of intel's docs < 1541196204 655843 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes :P < 1541196219 222562 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: those too, but also look at the 64-bit move between index and XMM instructions < 1541196244 807775 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I'll look at this felixcloutier docs, or at least bookmark it and look at it later < 1541196262 573017 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas, it's more of an instruction reference < 1541196274 657675 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's really freaking handy, much easier than sifting through a massive PDF :P < 1541196321 297190 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the PDF is not ideal, but together with other sources (like Agner Fog's manuals) it's good enough, and it's at least accurate and right from the mouth of those who make the CPU < 1541196341 878995 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Intel PDF has at least one typo, I even wrote an email to their support that they'll probably ignore < 1541196446 407372 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: the other relevant ones are http://www.felixcloutier.com/x86/MOVD:MOVQ.html , which move between an index register and XMM register, zero-extending, < 1541196542 359023 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, just for note wob_jonas, the < 1541196563 393608 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :88k's FPU is quite similar to x86's < 1541196573 905244 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :so emulation will be easier < 1541196590 482173 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, also PINSRQ and PEXTRQ < 1541196630 376276 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moonyt: to the 387, or to the 8087? there's a stupid crucial difference that can like triple your speed if it's the former. < 1541196646 624855 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"quite similar" is not enough if you want accurate emulation < 1541196665 183449 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :mk < 1541196710 130392 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats said difference? < 1541196736 451914 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly that the relay 8087 handles the sign of infinities in a stupid way < 1541196751 119509 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's some other minor ones too but they don't matter that much < 1541196762 249935 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd say it's more similar to the 387 < 1541196766 702862 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 387 can actually emulate the 8087 behavior, but only if you set some crazy flag that no sane software will set < 1541196848 999354 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the 387 actually has the sanest floating point behavior with respect to NaN representation that I've seen among CPUs. I wish other cpus had the same semantics for NaNs (but not other things, eg. I don't want a register stack or all that stupid state change and 80 bit variables and relative lack of non-floating-point instructions), < 1541196878 371162 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you'd like the 88k's FPU < 1541196890 335767 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bitsavers.org/components/motorola/88000/MC88110UM_88110_Users_Manual_1991.pdf section 04 < 1541196894 230163 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but alas no, every 'cking architecture has to invent its own NaN representation behavior that's incompatible with everything else, so there's at least four different relatively sane behaviours out there, and that's not counting the ones that just throw their hands up and don't even try to handle NaNs < 1541196911 965381 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and because of compatibility, none of them can just change the behavior of course < 1541196971 818269 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: I probably won't look at that right now, though I may bookmark it, but in any case I'd like the best behavior in modern fast CPUs that run in my computer, not in some old thing. I can emulate the right behavior too if I can afford some speed loss, I don't need a 88000 for that. < 1541197001 82765 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mc88110 just fires an exception when a source operand is a NaN, which i think is fairly sane < 1541197030 824461 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :properly diffs between nonsignalling and signalling, as well. (Signalling NaNs can have a usermode handler) < 1541197035 571030 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: yes, but can the software mask the instruction? < 1541197039 171958 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1541197041 448211 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mask the exception? < 1541197046 885122 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because usually that's what you want < 1541197051 873354 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just check for NaN at the end < 1541197058 726676 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually using the exception is a rare case < 1541197060 111961 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doublechecks < 1541197070 559639 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in most CPUs, you can < 1541197104 232207 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the CPU has defnite behavior of the result of the operation, sometimes even different result depending on whether the exception is masked or not < 1541197155 899423 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :TCFP masks the NaN exception. (TCFP stands for Time Critical Floating Point) < 1541197159 197702 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eg. for an overflow exception, the result is infinity of correct sign from outside the exception, but the correct value with a constant added to the exponent for the exception handler (they get the result in different ways so there's no ambiguity) < 1541197207 258376 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can mask the NaN exception normally as well < 1541197207 392124 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :x87, SSE, and MMIX all have individually maskable optional floating-point exceptions, they just differ in what NaN representation rules they have and some other details < 1541197220 31516 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :TCFP mode just disables all but 2 exceptions < 1541197237 217158 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't recall what AMR does, I looked at it very little, and mostly at the non-floating-point parts) < 1541197253 652231 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: right, that's the usual thing they do < 1541197271 42503 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea, all FP exceptions are maskable besides 2 < 1541197295 818213 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :those two being things that only trigger when truly invalid behavior, like a unimplemented floating point instruction, is requested < 1541197322 530377 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SSE2 also has two flags for not handling denormal values (a flag for reading a denormal as zero, and a flag for giving a zero result instead of a denormal), and a speed hit when it actually has to handle denormals < 1541197339 266027 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or SSE or whatever < 1541197348 363977 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :MC88110 has a similar thing, but i dont see any notes about denormals having a speed it. < 1541197350 67484 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hit < 1541197352 303954 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care when it was introduced between those < 1541197378 901712 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: if there's a flag then there's probably some sort of speed hit, or was in older versions of the CPU with a compatible instruction set < 1541197388 547110 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they wouldn't introduce a flag otherwise < 1541197401 828559 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's possible to not have the speed hit but keep the flag for compatibility of course < 1541197446 596711 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh nvm no flag < 1541197448 947207 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :just misread < 1541197456 446069 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't even support denormals :p < 1541197469 851919 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it DOES fire an exception when they're encountered so software can handle it tho < 1541197540 874358 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1541197576 481008 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of its long history, x86_64 has a lot of historical features that you no longer need to use if your code only runs on newer cpus, but that the cpus must support for compatibility because they made sense on older cpus < 1541197606 533958 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :¯\_(ツ)_/¯ at least motorola was nice enough to write the handler for you, they provide it in a software package that is no longer on planet earth haha < 1541197645 575792 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eg. there are pairs of equivalent SSE2 instructions for bitwise operations on XMM registers that differ in speed depending on whether they're between integer or floating-point vector instructions, the cpu needed to transparently transfer the value to another register file if you used the wrong one, but there's no longer a separate register file < 1541197662 363034 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.212.42 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541197662 542876 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.212.42 QUIT :Changing host < 1541197662 542912 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541198159 472633 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: that's a pity, but no denormal handling in hardware is a compromise that I can understand < 1541198256 686722 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :motorola wanted cheap chips, with the technology back then, it made sense < 1541198289 489124 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in chips today where I want the best behavior, because we could afford it if it weren't for historical compatibility issues < 1541199025 918681 :sleepnap!~thomas@2603:3015:260e:1900::13ed PART :#esoteric < 1541199040 341257 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, even the most annoying limitation of x86_64 is because of historical compatibility: we can't have more than 128 kilobytes of L1 data cache, because more than 8-way cache would have too much latency, and we can't dispatch cache by more than modulo 4 kilobytes of address space, because we have to be historically compatible with 4 kilobyte sized < 1541199040 431612 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric : pages. < 1541199102 201489 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :larger page size would be more efficient, but we can't get rid of supporting the smaller pages until some existing software depends on it, and it would be too impractical to have two entirely different L1 caches together, you'd probably have to duplicate the rest of the CPU with it < 1541199124 567881 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we won't have a larger L1 cache until we throw away the entire x86 historical compatibility < 1541199232 877804 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is harder to replace than the instruction set. x86_64 managed to get rid of at least some parts of the instruction set in true 64-bit mode, and you could get rid of more, but you can't get rid of the paging without throwing away all the compatibility < 1541199325 343430 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the good news is, that will probably happen within my lifetime, the way how fast these computer architectures change < 1541199348 941977 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be happy to learn about the details of a better architecture used in everyday consumer PCs < 1541199369 265366 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(some computers use ARM, admittedly, but even that is rather old) < 1541199393 50282 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and x86_64 is used in the highest performance ones, which is the ones that matter for this) < 1541199493 212687 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1541200086 261175 :tromp_!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1541200216 778492 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1541200413 44519 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1541200436 105324 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1541201508 228056 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1541201631 329770 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@77.28.104.76 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541201727 356662 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1541201727 534519 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@77.28.104.76 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1541201727 792366 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.104.76 QUIT :Changing host < 1541201727 792412 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541201758 6242 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zf5tit6s260cpd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541202075 419167 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541202126 303592 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1541202164 862595 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you happen to know where I can find good reviews of current non-smart mobile phone user interfaces? I want to find the right phone to buy for myself. I have some candidates, but want to find reviews by people who care about similar interface sutff as me. < 1541202197 261667 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be cheaper and faster than to buy a phone and find out that it sucks after a few days of playing with it, like it happened with these stupid nokias. < 1541202231 648911 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it looks like I can't find any good reviews. < 1541202283 405453 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.217.235 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541202283 657396 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@77.28.217.235 QUIT :Changing host < 1541202283 657441 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1541202288 281454 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might My current candidate is the CAT B30 dual sim. It is one of these stupid rubber-padded hard to break things with a small display, but if that's the extra I have to pay for to get a sane interface, it's OK. < 1541202419 887513 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other candidates are the Myphone 6310 and the Myphone 3310. < 1541202502 968316 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly the 3310 is named such that the number is the same as a very popular new nokia phone (which is named of an older nokia phone, this is really stupid), so it's harder to search for it < 1541202619 666277 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1541202634 424480 :hakatashi1!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1541202678 663108 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I totally can't find reviews, so unless someone here can pipe in with some useful info, I'll probably just buy a CAT B30 and try it. < 1541202691 781888 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1541202701 525196 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's definitely not perfect, but I can't get a perfect phone, I know that. < 1541202711 982163 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just need one that's not too annoying. < 1541202720 391396 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN :#esoteric