00:04:28 <zzo38> What port number should be in use for Netsubscribe protocol?
00:08:11 <ais523> zzo38: if it ever becomes popular enough a number would likely be officially assigned; if not, people will use their own numbers, but I suggest you recommend a number that currently isn't in common use
00:08:29 <ais523> there are lists of port numbers in common use, I think, so you could find such a list and pick an arbitrary number that isn't on it
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00:12:37 <fizzie> Wikipedia's [[List of TCP and UDP port numbers]] is a pretty reasonable one, including both official and unofficial assignments.
00:12:41 <esowiki> [[High Rise]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58351 * Ais523 * (+9511) about time I wrote this up
00:12:54 <zzo38> Yes, I did find that
00:13:14 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58352&oldid=58338 * Ais523 * (+16) /* H */ +[[High Rise]]
00:13:42 <esowiki> [[User:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58353&oldid=58062 * Ais523 * (+15) +[[High Rise]]
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00:21:31 <zzo38> I am not sure which one I should use, though.
00:27:02 <zzo38> Perhaps should trying to figure out which ones are not officially assigned and that other software that uses them is unlikely to be running on the same computer.
00:28:42 <zzo38> What number is your suggestion?
00:35:01 <ais523> why not choose one at random (that's above 1024), and reroll until you find one that isn't in use? that's normally a good way to reduce the chances of collisions
00:37:09 <zzo38> OK, I suppose that could be used.
00:43:40 <zzo38> IANA says that 9296 is currently unassigned, and Wikipedia does not list a use of that number either.
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00:48:39 <zzo38> Now you can read the new version of the protocol document, because I have made many changes. I will also try to start to implement
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03:09:07 <esowiki> [[Web framework list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58354&oldid=58349 * Oerjan * (-18) /* Esoteric frameworks for ordinary languages */ Template
03:28:56 <oerjan> @ask shachaf regarding your { if(...); ... } stuff, have i reminded you about Raph Levien's continuation language IO yet?
03:29:42 * oerjan misspelled both parts of the name before looking it up
03:38:10 <lambdabot> oerjan asked 9m 14s ago: regarding your { if(...); ... } stuff, have i reminded you about Raph Levien's continuation language IO yet?
04:02:53 <oerjan> http://canonical.org/~kragen/raph-io.html
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04:06:33 <esowiki> [[W]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58355&oldid=58233 * Cortex * (+69)
04:07:54 <esowiki> [[TEPCS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58356&oldid=58246 * Cortex * (+24)
04:09:21 <esowiki> [[A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58357&oldid=58348 * Cortex * (+99)
04:16:33 <oerjan> http://hackage.haskell.org/package/Ganymede is an implementation
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04:38:10 <zzo38> I look at the document of siginfo_t structure. I am not sure what use si_ptr is (since it is probably an address belonging to a different process), and I don't know why it does not include SIGPIPE.
04:59:43 <shachaf> Are Io continuations delimited?
04:59:55 <shachaf> I can't find much information about it. Maybe I can find the paper.
05:14:29 <oerjan> well, not that i've seen. i think they're pretty minimalistic.
05:15:11 <shachaf> I can't tell whether delimited continuations are more or less minimalistic than regular continuations.
05:34:29 <oerjan> well i mean, they're pretty much just lambda expressions that have no result but always just call another one
05:35:00 <shachaf> Delimited continuations, regular continuations, or Io things?
05:35:20 <oerjan> it's a language where everything is CPS
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10:50:02 <wob_jonas> "<ais523> there are lists of port numbers in common use, I think, so you could find such a list and pick an arbitrary number that isn't on it" => Yeah, the problem is that there are only 65536 port numbers each for TCP and UDP (even in IPV6), and a large range of that is generally wanted for non-common port numbers as the other side of connections.
10:50:46 <wob_jonas> There's some tricky modern solution where there's a directory service per server where you can query the port number for a service based on some name that can be longer than two bytes, but I'm not sur how it works.
10:51:43 <wob_jonas> Or, for many protocols, you can just run multiple things on the same port and differentiate by content, such as on a HTTP or HTTPS port and differentiate by the URL, or different versions of the same protocol by some headers.
10:53:18 <wob_jonas> zzo38: in this case for usenet, if you're designing a protocol that tries to replace an old one, you might want a mechanism where one side connects to whatever is the normal port for usenet, and by some handshake it can tell whether the other side supports the newer protocol, or it has to fall back to the older protocol instead.
10:54:21 <wob_jonas> Also, don't use port number 0, the unix socket interface is badly designed and doesn't easily allow you to bind to it.
10:54:55 <wob_jonas> (The system calls interpret port number 0 in bind as letting the tcp/udp layer choose a port, which you can query with getsockname.
10:59:09 <wob_jonas> This dispatching on a single connection still works later if the client is set to just disconnect if the new protocol is not available.
11:00:45 <wob_jonas> zzo38: http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man2/sigaction.2.html about siginfo_t
11:09:42 <wob_jonas> "I am not sure what use si_ptr is (since it is probably an address belonging to a different process)" => it's an opaque value that the kernel doesn't care about, it doesn't need to be a real pointer although it could be, it's between the two processes to define its meaning. it's a pointer type to make sure it's wide enough.
11:10:21 <wob_jonas> You could have it be an opaque handler small integer, or a pointer into a shapred memory region, possibly relative to its base, or a file offset, or whatever.
11:13:17 <wob_jonas> zzo38: re SIGPIPE, it's true that http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man2/sigaction.2.html doesn't mention it, nor does http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/toc.htm . probably there's no special handling in SA_SIGINFO handlers for SIGPIPE,
11:13:40 <wob_jonas> because you rarely want to handle SIGPIPE in any complicated way anyway, you just look for the EPIPE errno from syscalls instead.
11:14:37 <wob_jonas> It's a synchronious error, it was only a signal for historical compatibility reasons to provide a sane default for small programs that don't bother to handle write errors, but then programs need to do that anyway for other unexpected write errors too.
11:16:34 <wob_jonas> I'd also like to mention that you shouldn't be confused by siginfo_t having so many fields. It can actually be a union with fields overlapping, the concrete definition on linux is https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/include/uapi/asm-generic/siginfo.h?h=v4.20-rc2
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11:33:18 <mroman> I'm trying to document Burlesque's syntax.
11:33:33 <mroman> Can't be done without also documenting the exact order of how Burlesque tries to parse things.
11:33:44 <mroman> because that's what it does: it tries to apply a rule and if it doesn't match it tries the next rule.
11:34:29 <mroman> Built-ins don't really have a syntax.
11:38:52 <mroman> and I gotta document blsq ) begin lisp (?+ (?* 3 2) 1) end lisp
11:43:57 <mroman> y``@|[(yabcdY)to]| YShpe
11:45:12 <mroman> for some reason you can actually quote more than one identifier.
11:45:29 <mroman> I have no idea why this is even possible
11:47:18 <mroman> I guess in case a built-in wants more than one identifier arguments.
11:52:49 <mroman> also I doubt anybody knew that @'a gives you an infinite list of 'a's
11:53:24 <mroman> it's documented though.
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17:32:26 <zzo38> Actually, NNTP can still be used for Usenet, because Netsubscribe is a bit different use. (Even if it was, you couldn't then use both protocols together if the same port number is in use, whether for the same or for two different purposes)
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