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01:34:09 <wob_jonas> I'm trying to compare writable digital media for backup and transfer.
01:36:46 <wob_jonas> 50 pieces of blank DVD-R or DVD+R disks of capacity 4.7 GB each cost 6470 HUF. 8 pieces of class 10 micro-SDHC cards of capacity 32 GB each cost 14721 HUF, which is 2.3 times the previous one. Both prices include slow shipping.
01:38:58 <wob_jonas> These two options have comparable total capacity, comparable read and write speeds in practice. both can be read and written by cheap high-speed USB drives. micro-SDHC cards are smaller and less sensitive to storing conditions. It's hard to tell how long they last because that depends on the brand and make and storing conditions, but we at least kn
01:38:58 <wob_jonas> ow that DVDs fail gradually with some data recoverable cheaply at home, whereas SDHC cards fail catastrophically with data recoverable from a failed drive only by professional services.
01:39:28 <wob_jonas> I will also have to look at rotation hard disks.
01:41:50 <wob_jonas> What's the most cost-effective size for rotation hard disks these days?
01:42:43 <wob_jonas> obviously in practice I also have to take in account that I've already bought some micro-SD cards and blank DVD, so I can use those, but still
01:50:36 <wob_jonas> Ok, so for SATA rotational hard disks, the most cost-effective capacity for home use seems to be 2 TB or 4 TB, costing around 21000 HUF and 41000 HUF resp.
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01:59:27 <wob_jonas> These have a pretty high speed, much higher than the SD cards or DVDs, though the exact speed varies. If I use them externally with a hard disk rack connected through USB3, then the speed will be capped by the USB3 root hub to 625 MB/s and there's one USB3 root hub in most home computers.
02:01:41 <wob_jonas> In comparison, the medium price class 10 sd cards I was talking about above have speed between 10 MB/s and 45 MB/s; more expensive cards that I use for my digital camera where the wait time of saving a picture matters can go up to 90 MB/s
02:06:31 <wob_jonas> so for bulk amounts of data, the DVDs are 2.7 times more expensive than the hard disk, and the SD cards are 5.6 times more expensive.
02:07:04 <wob_jonas> But in practice, I'll rarely fill a 4 TB hard disk, so the practical price difference is lower.
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02:08:04 <wob_jonas> Hard disks need a more expensive external SATA rack and cables, and are bulkier than SD cards but less bulky than DVDs.
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02:10:31 <wob_jonas> In practice I'll definitely use a combination of hard disks and (SD cards or DVD) for backup and off-site backup; SD cards or DVD for transferring data to other people; and obviously SD cards for mobile phone and digital camera and similar devices, with the camera requiring slightly more expensive fast SD cards.
02:10:43 <wob_jonas> But it's best to see the current state cleanly to figure this out.
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06:27:32 <esowiki> [[An esoteric programming language (ess-oh-terr-ick), or esolang, is a computer programming language designed to experiment with weird ideas, to be hard to program in, or as a joke, rather than for practical use.]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58381 * Schmuui * (+716) I don't think this has ever happened before.
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06:32:32 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Featured languages/Candidates]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58382&oldid=58344 * Schmuui * (+99) /* List of candidates */
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07:25:48 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Featured languages/Candidates]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58383&oldid=58382 * Oerjan * (-99) Undo revision 58382 by [[Special:Contributions/Schmuui|Schmuui]] ([[User talk:Schmuui|talk]]) (See sentence in bold above)
07:30:20 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Oerjan * moved [[A programming language is a formal language that specifies a set of instructions that can be used to produce various kinds of output.]] to [[A programming language is a formal language, which comprises a set of instructions used to produce various kinds of output.]]: Someone changed it again
07:36:19 <esowiki> [[Template:Programming Language]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58386 * Oerjan * (+127) Time to save some work on the updating
07:37:14 <oerjan> hm wait should it be linked...
07:38:21 <esowiki> [[Template:Programming Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58387&oldid=58386 * Oerjan * (-4) Test something
07:40:35 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58388&oldid=58374 * Oerjan * (-109) Yay it works
07:43:47 <esowiki> [[User:Rottytooth]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58389&oldid=51007 * Oerjan * (-104) Hope you don't mind me adding the template here
07:46:21 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Oerjan * deleted "[[A programming language is a formal computer language designed to communicate instructions to a machine, particularly a computer.]]": Clean up after an old name change
07:48:02 <esowiki> [[Programming Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58390&oldid=52537 * Oerjan * (-109) Cross fingers that this works...
07:51:58 <esowiki> [[Programming Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58391&oldid=58390 * Oerjan * (+99) Seems not. At least subst: might work.
07:52:48 <esowiki> [[An esoteric programming language (ess-oh-terr-ick), or esolang, is a computer programming language designed to experiment with weird ideas, to be hard to program in, or as a joke, rather than for practical use.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58392&oldid=58381 * Oerjan * (-351) Use new template
08:01:34 <esowiki> [[A programming language is a formal language, which comprises a set of instructions used to produce various kinds of output.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58393&oldid=58384 * Oerjan * (-363) Templatize for sanity
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08:03:05 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Oerjan * deleted "[[A programming language is a formal language that specifies a set of instructions that can be used to produce various kinds of output.]]": Finish (I hope) cleanup after renaming
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10:15:21 <esowiki> [[VeriBasic]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58394 * TeslaX93 * (+409) Created page with "VeriBasic is a programming language, inspired by [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verilog Verilog] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PHP PHP]. == Examples == // "Hello, world!"..."
10:15:33 <esowiki> [[VeriBasic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58395&oldid=58394 * TeslaX93 * (-1)
10:37:45 <esowiki> [[VeriBasic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58396&oldid=58395 * TeslaX93 * (+65)
10:39:39 <esowiki> [[An Odd Rewriting System]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58397 * Ais523 * (+4015) yet another new language
10:40:17 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58398&oldid=58388 * Ais523 * (+30) /* A */ +[[An Odd Rewriting System]]
10:40:51 <esowiki> [[An Odd Rewriting System]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58399&oldid=58397 * Ais523 * (+131) /* Syntax */ clarify whitespace and comments
10:41:33 <esowiki> [[User:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58400&oldid=58375 * Ais523 * (+29) +[[An Odd Rewriting System]]
10:47:19 <esowiki> [[An Odd Rewriting System]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58401&oldid=58399 * Ais523 * (+5) pipe year link
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12:37:49 <wob_jonas> I'm wearing it, but it will take at least weeks to decide how good it is, and more to find out how long-lasting it is.
12:39:21 <int-e> I think eyeglasses are plural.
12:39:45 <int-e> Unless it's a monocle.
12:41:01 <wob_jonas> For several years now I've been buying my eyeglasses on my own, as in from my own money without my parents' substantial help; but among those this is the first one where I brought the frame in a place other than the regular optician.
12:41:40 <wob_jonas> Since I bought the frame and the lens in different places, that has some risk, because there are some damages that won't be covered by warranty at either place because either of them can blame the other for the frame and lens being incompatible.
12:42:10 <wob_jonas> Still, my regular optics shop has had too little choice in frames for a while now, so I decided to take that risk.
12:43:18 <wob_jonas> In the future, when I buy the frame separately, I should be more specific in saying what kind of lens I will use.
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18:44:31 <mroman> What's the correct terminology for map f $ xs?
18:48:11 <mroman> but f $ xs is also f applied to xs
18:59:40 <int-e> yes, because ($) is the identity function
19:00:05 <int-e> > succ 3 == (succ $ 3)
19:01:18 <mroman> but if map f xs applies f to xs and f xs applies f to xs
19:01:28 <mroman> then it's weird because those are two completely different things.
19:12:49 <mroman> only about 300 built-ins left to document.
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19:19:41 <mroman> If I document 5 a day I'll be done in two months :D
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19:58:29 <ais523> I have weird conjecture: AORS a) is Turing-complete, but b) cannot simulate every Turing machine in polynomial time
19:59:21 <ais523> so far I don't know that either half of this is correct for certain
19:59:39 <ais523> but I have lots of potential leads for implementing TC languages in AORS and all of them seem to involve an exponential slowdown…
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20:25:05 <int-e> hmm that's a funny one
20:25:43 <int-e> I'd probably have used x:even:odd for the syntax if I had thought of this
20:26:29 <int-e> or add some silliness and write x?odd:even;
20:27:08 <ais523> I thought of x:even:odd first, but this syntax is intended to be extensible to variants of the language (and in particular, higher-level languages that compile into AORS but are compatible with it)
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21:11:43 <ais523> https://esolangs.org/wiki/An_Odd_Rewriting_System
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21:17:22 <esowiki> [[AORS]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58402 * B jonas * (+37) Redirected page to [[An Odd Rewriting System]]
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22:05:06 <shachaf> ski: Do you know something about callCC with restricted lifetime for the continuation?
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