< 1544832122 459942 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1544832158 165671 :Hoolootwo!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue NICK :Hooloovo0 < 1544832891 658081 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@2601:602:8500:d0d1:10c4:ccdc:130f:75f9 JOIN :#esoteric < 1544833497 683607 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Funky. < 1544834123 44533 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1544834735 369651 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1544835853 311061 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.143.174.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1544835900 846227 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-54.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1544836347 282289 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1544839345 396540 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1544842019 418060 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1544842036 667864 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1544842366 728903 :doesthiswork1!~Adium@131.191.115.81 JOIN :#esoteric < 1544842366 909065 :doesthiswork!~Adium@131.191.115.81 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1544842487 397654 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1544843000 548339 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: No route to host < 1544843383 63070 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1544844047 472721 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ysiczvavntuxducq QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1544844350 752727 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1544844359 434944 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.122.29 JOIN :#esoteric < 1544844359 597219 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.122.29 QUIT :Changing host < 1544844359 597274 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1544846436 105816 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1544849932 927871 :nchambers!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers JOIN :#esoteric < 1544850601 476941 :doesthiswork1!~Adium@131.191.115.81 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1544850737 332515 :doesthiswork!~Adium@131.191.115.81 JOIN :#esoteric < 1544851291 84488 :nchambers!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2 < 1544854322 656665 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One variant of Scrabble that I read is that you are allowed to exchange your letters with ones already on the board, one at a time, as long as the new letter still causes it to form a valid word. You can do this multiple times per turn, but only one letter is changed at a time. < 1544854741 861571 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1544856547 697077 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1544856691 401427 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1544857047 428276 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1544857600 550414 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1544857613 516415 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1544857615 858649 :doesthiswork!~Adium@131.191.115.81 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1544858274 713502 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1544860029 758369 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1544860067 970596 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1544860371 507272 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1544860383 259006 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1544861412 901140 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1544861452 518248 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1544862398 631734 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcjpltykrbgmmx.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1544863983 635310 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcjpltykrbgmmx.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1544864518 951664 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcjpltykrbgmmx.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1544864834 61521 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-igrzaszpajjubwtf JOIN :#esoteric < 1544864922 135794 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-159.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1544864956 322271 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-159.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't like the idea for that Scrabble variant. I think it would lead to slow play. < 1544864998 198666 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-159.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What you could do is to allow only blank tiles to be replaced, even with a different letter than the blank originally designated. < 1544865019 492662 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-159.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And possibly add two more blank tiles. < 1544865878 224518 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-159.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1544868146 969530 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a rule where you can add letters into existing words, expanding them? > 1544868470 852418 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Salpynx 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:Hello World! in He110! with other automata rules.png10]]" < 1544868523 961441 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.143.174.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric > 1544870359 754648 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07He110!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58735&oldid=58731 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+642) 10/* Further development */ encode other automata edge rules > 1544871956 802761 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07He110!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58736&oldid=58735 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+1087) 10/* Examples */ other automata example > 1544876743 369267 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Symbolic Python14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58737&oldid=53257 5* 03FTcode 5* (-228) 10 < 1544877161 741603 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-igrzaszpajjubwtf QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1544877237 311792 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Symbolic Python14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58738&oldid=58737 5* 03FTcode 5* (+186) 10 < 1544878305 971008 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1544878401 629465 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar ENVA < 1544878401 977544 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENVA 151250Z 10006KT CAVOK M13/M16 Q1028 NOSIG RMK WIND 670FT 15013KT < 1544878449 561609 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :my cold seems to have got worse again (although without the sneezing), so i'm staying inside for the day < 1544878463 647973 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which then makes my _back_ complain. < 1544878520 955529 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar lowi < 1544878521 804993 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOWI 151250Z VRB02KT 9999 FEW030 M03/M09 Q1022 NOSIG < 1544878523 603136 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :old man oerjan < 1544878531 178885 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, my back chose to complain today and a walk outside is the usual way i get that better :( < 1544878622 694675 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :♫ I am 48, going on 49... ♫ < 1544878630 33958 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can walk up and down your room < 1544878660 906495 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do < 1544878662 735605 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :soon to be square < 1544878678 566272 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll be so hip < 1544878696 321911 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless i need a hip replacement. not quite there yet...) < 1544878775 983614 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? tofu < 1544878777 97771 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tofu? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1544878789 833516 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I just stumbled across "Trust on First Use (TOFU)") < 1544878868 489637 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grWp carbon < 1544878870 326968 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1544878875 133207 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote carbon < 1544878875 797630 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :28) is there a problem with it being carbonized :D yes: carbonized coffee bean is known more commonly as "charcoal" < 1544878966 439275 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :salpynx's he110 makes me wonder if anyone's tried to make something like a hello, world in rule 110 itself ... something that starts from something else and then looks like it for a bit < 1544878971 727552 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot`: say something? < 1544878971 828064 :fungot`!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i may have figured it out already) was that it < 1544878998 107849 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style europarl < 1544878998 201811 :fungot`!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006) < 1544879022 11437 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot`: pontificate? < 1544879023 330753 :fungot`!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: as i explained earlier, and goes on until 17 april. i am in favour of sensible management and control system needs to be consistency. for example, i see a confirmation of the highly adverse impact of illegal immigration with all its weaknesses and its encouraging signs, i would like to seek your support for my opinion which it voted upon and adopted unanimously. it is still necessary, and regionalisation, which i would a < 1544879059 439849 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1544879059 486504 :fungot`!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl* ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1544879068 425233 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style agora < 1544879068 511871 :fungot`!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: agora (a large selection of Agora rules, both current and historical) < 1544879080 609123 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1544879080 672287 :fungot`!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: whenever a player randomly from among all the properties named to the public < 1544879264 82277 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kugbxvgsdsfhvffh JOIN :#esoteric < 1544879551 161142 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: these days there should be a ukparl style < 1544879608 366650 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that thing looks more and more like a big game of chicken) < 1544879754 556324 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there transcripts of the debates? < 1544879764 886649 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, +public < 1544879881 349872 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanted to pun tofu with meatless, but cannot find any confirmation that the latter has the metaphoric meaning i imagine < 1544879971 657547 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The single largest strength of any TOFU-style model is that a human being must initially validate every interaction." "The largest weakness of any TOFU-style model is that a human being must initially validate every interaction," < 1544880354 716427 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :secure communication between people would be so easy without the people < 1544880385 294004 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be quotable if it weren't too obvious < 1544880410 592070 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :secure communication between people would be so easy without the human factor < 1544880411 457539 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1544880440 744059 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1544880475 408582 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also https://xkcd.com/703/ < 1544881478 879995 :derpy!~quassel@ppp-62-216-204-64.dynamic.mnet-online.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1544882425 633095 :doesthiswork!~Adium@131.191.115.81 JOIN :#esoteric < 1544886005 669482 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@2601:602:8500:d0d1:10c4:ccdc:130f:75f9 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1544886184 836570 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1544886215 487103 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1544887525 448440 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.20.133 JOIN :#esoteric < 1544887600 324086 :derpy!~quassel@ppp-62-216-204-234.dynamic.mnet-online.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1544887614 418970 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1544887614 657222 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.20.133 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1544887615 18936 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.20.133 QUIT :Changing host < 1544887615 19071 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1544887926 502631 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1544888050 691784 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1544888156 277860 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1544888168 752080 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1544888505 695509 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1544888618 769649 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1544888802 767333 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1544888839 255300 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1544889187 685002 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1544889200 666165 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1544889288 316431 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: "This Hansard corpus (or collection of texts) contains nearly every speech given in the British Parliament from 1803-2005, and it allows you to search these speeches (including semantically-based searches) in ways that are not possible with any other resource." < 1544889303 795255 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, 2005 is a little too far in the past to reflect the... recent events. < 1544889329 35529 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, could be worth to include. I haven't added any corpora in a while. < 1544889419 464162 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except it looks like the data isn't freely available there, it's just a search engine. Maybe. But perhaps it's available somewhere else. < 1544889495 469472 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good, there's a CC-BY-licensed corpus of "British parliamentary debates from 1998 to 2015" at Ortolang. < 1544889502 676023 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still a bit dated for this particular use though. < 1544889518 126330 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1544889555 407845 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure in a decade or two we'll (a) all look back on this and laugh (b) have it available. < 1544890961 821097 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kugbxvgsdsfhvffh QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1544891159 351809 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I opened the newest of the files at random, and they're talking about brexit. < 1544891570 393231 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, TheyWorkForYou publishes a rsyncable database that is actually up to date. < 1544891628 825509 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :When was that damnable referendum again? Maybe I'll train from that day up to present. < 1544891734 405515 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1544891767 503957 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1544891774 158438 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1544891775 687317 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcjpltykrbgmmx.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1544892091 633827 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1544892442 313846 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble NICK :\x01VERSION\x01 < 1544892617 963342 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1544892634 461253 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1544893066 993094 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Finished reading 25663587 words." < 1544893297 244187 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1544893558 223448 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1544894342 668378 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :A mahjong rule variant: If someone makes a closed kan while you have riichi, if the one they make kan is the only possible card that could complete your hand, then you win; it counts as tsumo rather than ron. < 1544894685 139659 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcjpltykrbgmmx.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1544895271 301123 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1544896177 989203 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Quit: Laa shay'a waqi'un moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine < 1544896211 360109 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.20.133 JOIN :#esoteric < 1544896211 522440 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.20.133 QUIT :Changing host < 1544896211 522491 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1544896565 124991 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1544896584 897942 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1544897071 46358 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Quit: Laa shay'a waqi'un moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine < 1544897167 460932 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1544897271 537681 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1544897310 298250 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1544898097 612614 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1544898110 455286 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1544898851 573636 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :anybody wanna contest that sets are computationally elusive. < 1544899126 287035 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: that sounds a bit too vague for my liking < 1544899251 324748 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :core reasoning: there is no convenient way to store a set as a single data structure that is simply unordered and unique. any computational primitives you use must have additional logic added to their operations to preserve uniqueness and a lack of ordering. < 1544899261 872684 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :A precise statement along these lines is that the set of computable (or recursively enumerable) sets of natural numbers is countable, for example, so there are uncountably many other sets that cannot be computed (recursivly enumerated). < 1544899294 455896 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use lists with a uniqueness predicate and ignore ordering, but there's an ordering there, and you're just using lists. < 1544899317 730063 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use any manner of other discrete structure but ordering is going to be there. < 1544899417 592326 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :on that level, for finite sets, lists and just equality is enough to represent sets... you just won't have a unique representation. < 1544899461 781265 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which btw means that finite sets of computable reals are tricky because computable reals don't have a decidable equality. < 1544899466 794257 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of what I'm saying. ordering and non-uniqueness kind of eliminates sets as a basic structure. < 1544899467 881360 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may call that elusive. < 1544899483 763590 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :because ordering and non-uniqueness are fundamental < 1544899503 555210 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not how set are defined < 1544899523 43395 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :a set is defined as a collection of unordered unique elements. < 1544899533 395857 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :that may be arbitrarily nested. < 1544899534 399695 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :axiom of extensionality: A = B if x in A if and only if x in B for all x. < 1544899561 781334 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sets aren't ordered even in set theory < 1544899603 49662 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you aren't getting what I'm saying, so let me be more clear: there is no such thing as an unordered unique collection in computing. < 1544899617 431038 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are ordered collections with a uniqueness predicate. < 1544899657 18934 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't build a "set structured memory", for instance. < 1544899678 556009 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can fake it by ignoring order. < 1544899688 948664 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can fake it by adding a uniqueness check to every insertion. < 1544899694 448556 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh it's really a matter of defining an interface for your data structure < 1544899729 621591 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically all data structures have extraneous information. For example, two equal big integers may have different addresses. < 1544899837 711699 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'd disagree. Working with quotients (representations modulo some congruence relation) is everywhere in programming, and while it's possible to peek inside and destroy the illusion, it's generally not useful. < 1544899859 129013 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :assume for a moment that you wanted to build a "computational foundation for mathematics", which basically means taking a model of computation and trying to define a bunch of useful math within it. we already have ZFC, so why not try modeling ZFC within that model of computation so the operations line up. < 1544899861 510710 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So as long as we have equality tests for the elements, we can represent finite sets, no issue at all. < 1544899878 910284 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :much like we tried almost a century ago. < 1544899917 500639 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no model of computation that exists that can define/formulate sets without that illusion _unless_ sets are taken as a computational primitive. < 1544899919 891026 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :much like in SETL. < 1544899994 416025 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :my question is is the statement above true, noting that the only reason it can be considered true is that every model of computation not presupposing unordered unique collections admits only ordered non-unique collections. < 1544900002 694368 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: meh, I've done some refinement in Isabelle/HOL. For finite sets, typically one refines to lists there are two choices. a) equality only, refining to lists with unique elements. Whenever one folds (iterates) over a set, one has to use an associative, commutative operation. b) refine to ordered lists, which solve the unique representation problem. < 1544900009 91189 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a) is a perfectly viable approach. < 1544900058 337036 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :c) is a proper container like red-black-trees, which refine ordered lists and do away with unique representations again. < 1544900117 718480 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. but that's kind of my point: you always have to suppose, to work properly, an ordered, non-unique collection in order to derive unordered unique collections. < 1544900135 491914 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but we're dealing with it. < 1544900138 72635 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1544900162 854174 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as I said, the unordered view on a list is actually viable. < 1544900169 456875 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if mathematics is to be considered algorithmic, this is a non-zero unit cost to dealing with sets. enumeration, folding, any operation really incurs an extra step compared to starting with ordered collections. < 1544900185 313863 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's uncommon because usually orders are easy to define and give significant performance benefits. < 1544900209 556835 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :an additional question would be: what would the "list" or "tree" equivalent of ZFC be. < 1544900222 430775 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell I'll take non-well founded theories. < 1544900362 514239 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get that you can "deal with it", but it's just a philosophical take. < 1544900381 363127 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Embedding data types into sets tends to be tedious. You can carve out lists from partial functions from naturals to your element type, but that's rather ad hoc. In Isabelle/HOL there's some heavy machinery reasoning about cardinals that does that for a large class of least fixed points of various functors (and a bit more to allow codata). < 1544900383 859885 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's more "fundamental" in structuring something? does structure imply some order? < 1544900472 100482 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that may be considered cheating at the foundations because Isabelle/HOL isn't ZFC, it's a Hindley-Milner typed set theory. < 1544900543 228039 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in any case, you can embed data type constructions into ZFC. You can also take the attitude that since you can embed Turing Machines into ZFC, and those cover everything computable, you don't need to bother with programming language types at all. < 1544900552 459498 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs. < 1544900573 496457 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders where this is going... < 1544900596 314514 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: sure, but in theory you could mechanically translate that Hindley-Milner stuff to an underlying untyped representation, right? < 1544900617 620092 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the type system is certainly useful, to avoid mistakes, but it's not some theoretical problem I think < 1544900622 980117 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it counts as cheating < 1544900629 33179 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think the main disagreement is still that I'm saying that quotients are everywhere and so standard that they are hardly worth discussing, and imode disagrees. < 1544900648 469701 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I parse your agument int-e as "it doesn't matter". < 1544900713 552015 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: A point I haven't made: quotients are even present in mathematics, everywhere. Constructing rationals from integers, constructing reals from rationals... in the typical approaches, you have some representation of your new object, but it's not unique, so you take a quotiont. < 1544900731 819604 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what quotient means in this context. < 1544900834 643493 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotient_algebra < 1544900868 836389 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we have to consider the different properties of the things we build the "primitives" of math out of, and if math is to be taken as algorithmic (not necessarily turing computable, but algorithmic), then the properties of those things need to be neccessarily algorithmic as well. < 1544900930 278784 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :which just made me think about some foundational stuff like ZF and ZFC. < 1544900952 60063 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/3 is a representation of a rational number; it can also be represented as (-1)/(-3), 2/6, (-2)/(-6), ... < 1544900956 333611 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "can you represent sets computationally", "how would you represent sets in arbitrary models of computation". < 1544901008 619584 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess I'm just searching for a counterexample. like, what model of computation doesn't presuppose sets and doesn't have that illusion. where are the models where we don't have to "deal with it" or spend some time or space complexity. < 1544901047 334047 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that sets are fundamental in the outside sense, as in, that we use ZFC in praticular as the standard axiom system is more or less an accident of history, and we could use many equivalent systems with data structures other than sets. < 1544901050 998721 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so when defining Q, a common approach is to first look at pairs (a, b) with b != 0 (and value a/b), and then say that a/b = c/d if a*d = b*c, which defines a congruence relation (it's an equivalence relation which is compatible with addition and multiplication), and then take the quotient modulo that congruence relation. < 1544901065 505069 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, and that presupposes ordered pairs. < 1544901086 788623 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then for computing with elements of Q, we routinely go back to representatives a/b, rather than writing out complete congruence classes. < 1544901087 804530 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I also don't think there's anything wrong with sets. They're simple and convenient enough, not very artificial, so this is a good choice. < 1544901141 455169 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, we can usually use representatives, but it's not essential that we can use them, and in some general contexts a choice of representative elements need not exist. < 1544901141 855596 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I think that ordered collections are natural from a philosophical standpoint. show me something without order, and I'll show you that it's not a preferred order, but it _is_ an order. < 1544901150 956699 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :algorithmically I take that stance as well. < 1544901156 529404 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taking the whole equivalence class usually works as a fallback. < 1544901199 728258 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It gets ugly when that equivalence class is not a set, because it makes proofs more complicated to write, but there's no real theoretical difficulty. < 1544901204 36450 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: so that's an example of a quotient, which basically exhibits the same phenomenon you're worrying about for sets: the same rational number has several representations. A difference is that we have decided which representative is canonical, for every rational number (a/b with b > 0 and a and b coprime... but you can actually work with rational numbers without ever doing that). < 1544901288 820383 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's actually pretty interesting. I actually wonder if there might be some foundation in something like a nondeterministic TM which enumerates a given set. < 1544901316 924837 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e "here's a bunch of potential orderings, pick the one you want, or pick at random." < 1544901351 240526 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :some algorithm that enumerates/generates a set but does not presuppose a given order. < 1544901635 152998 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcjpltykrbgmmx.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1544901672 195786 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that means you'd need to presuppose nondeterminism.. hm. < 1544901719 969758 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1544901753 495479 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: I'm sorry, I should not have been quite so dismissive. The issue you're describing is real. It's just that it's well-known and quite universal, we deal with it all the time, when programming, and also in mathematics itself. < 1544901808 364671 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's alright! just trying to reconcile it with my personal sense of aesthetics. I have a programming environment that I'm building that already has a language, so I'm considering how I'd approach some foundations of that language. < 1544901826 800697 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"yes, the program said [42,1,666,23], but let's just pretend that the order has no significance, because we know it's printing a set." < 1544901833 917323 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( what's the categorical definition of non-canonicity ) < 1544901849 869030 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: dym canonical? < 1544901869 278916 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :s//al/ < 1544901908 660622 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interplay between deterministic computation and nondeterministic computation leads you going in circles. deterministic MoCs can simulate nondeterministic MoCs by enumerating all branches, while nondeterministic MoCs take deterministic MoCs as special cases. < 1544902033 546763 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( also any set that contains both 42 and 666 is trying too hard ) < 1544902059 432781 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if we say that you need a nondeterministic MoC to "properly" represent unordered, unique collections.. well, there's that problem of uniqueness. < 1544902089 253323 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :nondeterminism gets you unordered collections, but you still have a non-zero algorithmic cost to determine uniqueness. < 1544902116 620685 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, "I need to check my with my collection every time I do something that may endanger the fact that the elements are unique." < 1544902140 189867 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :that may give some credence towards multisets. < 1544902172 731477 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( snowflake-based computing ) < 1544902241 881947 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantum sorting: shuffle your list based on the outcome of reading a qubit; destroy the universe if the list is not sorted. < 1544902296 768517 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :destroying the universe is not in BQP hth < 1544902306 434658 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is, of course, a slightly more radical version of quantum suicide. < 1544902325 127576 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except for solipsists) < 1544902500 11634 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( noone pointed out that I better use at least ceil(log_2(n!)) qubits ) < 1544902625 255032 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1544903139 751757 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so multisets may actually be a perfectly sound foundation. they only require a lack of ordering. < 1544903237 68119 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, multisets are useless < 1544903247 4763 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :shots fired. :P < 1544903409 191203 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I have plenty of uses for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiset_ordering < 1544903561 579748 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ordered, non-unique: lists/trees, etc. unordered, non-unique: multisets. ordered, unique: ???. unordered, unique: sets. < 1544903702 31854 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though it may be kind of telling that both definitions come from term rewriting people (though Oppen may have been (or is?) more of a first-order theorem proving person)) < 1544903827 445659 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'm also biased towards ordered collections as a basis as well because in our universe, there always exists a "canonical ordering" for at least one thing. < 1544903851 37188 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :time kinda ensures that. < 1544903970 187906 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :like I can say "I don't have an ordering for this", but to do anything, you need an ordering. < 1544904024 9117 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can construct an ordering, just like you can construct an ordered pair from sets. < 1544904413 417970 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :be back soon. ttyl. o/ < 1544904673 728671 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1544904866 42352 :doesthiswork!~Adium@131.191.115.81 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1544905842 114318 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :From training logs: "New: communist-manufactured pen" < 1544905873 415565 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As [Gorbachev] went to sign into effect the dissolution of the Soviet Union, his communist-manufactured pen did not work, and he had to borrow a working pen from the CNN camera crew who were filming the event." < 1544905881 932156 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's like the urban legand about the million dollar pen that can write in a zero-gravity environment? < 1544905889 320520 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :developed by NASA < 1544905898 700661 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1544905900 730575 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's even better < 1544905940 394820 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Alongside St John Paul II, President Reagan and our own Margaret Thatcher, we were instrumental in resisting totalitarianism and inspiring the captive peoples of Europe to stand up against their communist overlords. At the same time, the Leader of the Opposition and the shadow Home Secretary were going on motorbike tours of East Germany." < 1544905986 524431 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unfortunately the models I've gotten out of this so far haven't sounded very good.) < 1544906001 332808 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you training fungot or some new thing? < 1544906001 404504 :fungot`!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: particular currency. each office, the assessor in the scorekeepor's announcement, that is not prohibited or regulated by a < 1544906020 508753 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Training a complementary "ukparl" style for fungot, yes. < 1544906020 595829 :fungot`!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ( -o) when, during agora's birthday is defined in the number of rules is decided by the < 1544906028 824434 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1544906050 780242 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want to train a bibul style? < 1544906138 372710 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tried some bible variants, I don't think I put any online. < 1544906226 523288 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bibul < 1544906227 435560 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bibul: not found < 1544906231 30567 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? bibul < 1544906231 852776 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1544906232 202122 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bibul? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1544906241 90986 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't there someting in hackego for that? < 1544906738 114816 :fungot`!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 NICK :fungot < 1544906739 924641 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot`: can you say something about resilience? < 1544906740 49550 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: srfi-67 seems to be working < 1544906752 760783 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1544906752 807204 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp ukparl youtube < 1544906754 801716 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style ukparl < 1544906754 848123 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: ukparl (UK Parliament debates from brexit referendum to late 2018) < 1544906762 302704 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: How about that brexit then? < 1544906762 366078 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: and of any information capable of being viewed as important, the groceries code statutory? under the current uk system at the same in the hon. and learned friend the member for nottingham north ( mr allen) and the hon. and learned friend the member for west dorset, to many colleagues, the schools. < 1544906784 673428 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surprisingly, there are other topics. < 1544906797 156187 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: fnord? < 1544906797 243949 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: that, of the fnord fr fnord, or kfw, sits, that what the hon. member, one surveyor, and my fnord, the hon. and learned friend, in the sense of a government lurching from one crisis to another: the nuclear deal, the billions to the uk over the us, the arab world, and the work of the house. < 1544906806 839002 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1544906812 777481 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That wasn't planned. < 1544906828 24556 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is feeling lucky. < 1544906880 352437 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hon. and learned friend the member fungot makes more meaningful statements than some hon. and learn friend members of the parliament < 1544906880 399026 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: the european union < 1544906882 3574 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but not lucky enough to try that again) < 1544906884 849565 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Perl script I have can take a pre-set initial context, which is nice if you'd like fungot to make a statement on a particular topic. < 1544906884 896196 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is the hon. member of this house, including any concerns. from the time, < 1544906907 259138 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the challenge for brexit is a wee step behind, as i very much want that unintended consequence?" < 1544906923 973306 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :good one < 1544906937 891963 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a tad too honest, I'd say < 1544906948 427155 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: teeth? < 1544906948 473741 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: my hon. and learned friend, particularly for the very youngest. i predict, and to those of the many fnord journalists, of parliamentarians. < 1544906976 989031 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: seriously, no brexit at all? < 1544906977 40723 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i was a member, for the opportunity to get < 1544907000 712829 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: will you be more successful than Theresa May in convincing Ireland to quit the EU? < 1544907000 759565 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: at the time, given the minister a very specific issue, and that over 500 other firms, the third party, the sale of fnord to fnord alone, and would be the same government that schools, and sports organisations < 1544907003 321621 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: well I suppose there are other topics < 1544907003 389486 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: to fnord part of the uk, through the media, the radio, the importance of an independent uk trade policy. it is the time for the government to continuing the discussion with the fnord stakeholders. < 1544907030 266700 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is right, hon. and learned friend < 1544907042 58209 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is there a way for you to check whether "brexit" made it into the word list? < 1544907056 748293 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sale of... yeah < 1544907155 7112 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: It must've been, otherwise the script for that brexit statement would've complained. < 1544907199 639239 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, sorry. I missed the point of that quote. < 1544907200 976655 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the sorted unigram list, it's somewhere around rank 240, between "doing" and "home". < 1544907219 654144 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bad < 1544907369 635928 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Top 500 most common tokens: https://zem.fi/tmp/top500.txt < 1544907381 373426 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the opinion of my hon. and learened friedn fungot ofabout brexit? < 1544907381 436653 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: in that case, the hon. member, yet that is the only data that includes additional high-value investment, specifically the right point < 1544907486 12987 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: so there are more closing parentheses than opening parentheses? fun.... < 1544907519 3696 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: sure. unmatched opening parenthesis aren't very useful, but unmatched closing parenthesis can be used like < 1544907524 255826 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define F G( < 1544907547 784150 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define G(0) 0,F < 1544907550 741546 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1544907552 172623 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1544907567 349361 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's some C preprocessor magic that uses lists separated by closing parenthesis anyway < 1544907607 949380 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: and how does that connect with transcripts from the UK parliament? < 1544907622 781505 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not at all probably < 1544907645 136798 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: There might be some preprocessing issues there. < 1544907718 391881 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just counting '(' and ')' in the source XML files, there are 78166 (s and 78170 )s. < 1544907721 370154 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, number one: 324 -3.60044 1 -0.601376 < 1544907748 864325 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that seems close enough :) < 1544907768 816667 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of those parentheses may have gotten attached to words, I think there's some known issues about consecutive punctuation. < 1544907784 699446 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlikely that "their" and "who" are both squeezed between these two numbers. < 1544907806 154235 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh...) < 1544907819 815254 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should start addressing people on esoteric "my hon. and learned friend" < 1544907831 775352 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, "church" didn't make the list < 1544907843 279251 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome b_jonas < 1544907846 629615 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) < 1544907862 455589 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: there's a chance for you to do that :P < 1544908002 200680 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it sounds condescending to me... so if I get a vote on this I'm against it. < 1544908134 82966 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1544908472 353870 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1544908496 345681 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1544909131 904374 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: so what you're saying is that for those two years, the hon. friends carefully avoided discussing the mess? < 1544909131 992056 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is the hon. member of this house, and the pay of the chief executive, but consequently her working years shows the success, or seeking to transfer the european law, < 1544909205 175250 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have this feeling there may be a bit heavy line breaking < 1544909310 477930 :Luciole!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this based on transcriptions from the house of commons? < 1544909315 836743 :Luciole!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1544909315 883467 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp ukparl* youtube < 1544909344 572361 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style ukparl < 1544909344 646667 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: ukparl (UK Parliament debates from brexit referendum to late 2018) < 1544909398 641198 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :good question, hmm, I'd hope that this includes both houses? < 1544909429 516216 :Luciole!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1544909441 739781 :Luciole!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the house of commons is the one with the more lively discussions I think < 1544909453 797275 :Luciole!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: so how do you feel about a no-deal brexit < 1544909453 883822 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Luciole: government should agree to and put to the people in a vote. he was never told he is pursuing his interest, to the rightful role < 1544909507 293105 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Luciole: http://parser.theyworkforyou.com/hansard.html seems to be what fizzie used, and it mentions both houses. < 1544909510 992180 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.143.174.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1544909517 945252 :Luciole!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1544909635 305275 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: yeah, my hon. and learned friend, that part is easy, but what shall the question of the vote be? depending on the question, we'll get entirely complimentary outcomes < 1544909635 391954 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: i, for one, and i have to be frank, the last 12 years. the canadian fnord food, given the secretary of fnord members, and to our way of life, < 1544909704 58841 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, at least you are frank, my hon. and learned friend < 1544909723 19408 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: do you also object against calling fungot my hon. and learned friend? < 1544909723 68773 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: this was the first time, the hon. member. a damaged and disrupted fnord by lone fathers, and should try to ensure, and to all the people. < 1544909739 566816 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. it's always the first time. good excuse. < 1544909745 906573 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you go scott free just this one time. < 1544909787 60001 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I don't mind addressing fungot in a condescending way < 1544909787 106415 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: there is, to a degree, the nursing and midwifery council, the coroners and justice act 2009 < 1544909796 607540 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I think it has done quite enough to deserve it ;) < 1544909824 912811 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? fungot < 1544909824 959465 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: we, of course, of the north-east. it is my great pleasure to have the opportunity. < 1544909825 933322 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot is our beloved channel mascot and voice of reason. < 1544910054 535107 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Luciole: It's from Commons, I think. < 1544910075 677421 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, no, maybe both. < 1544910092 576320 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://parser.theyworkforyou.com/hansard.html "Debates (Commons), Debates (Lords), Westminster Hall" < 1544910150 934211 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I trained on the scrapedxml/debates/debates*.xml files, from 2016 June to present day. < 1544910188 601768 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no! I think she's a witch! < 1544910214 548855 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's "Commons main chamber debates" only. < 1544910403 15766 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think for Lords I would've needed to look in the lordspages/daylord*.xml files. < 1544910626 902847 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: By the way, the lines ending in a comma are likely because the transcripts put all quotes in their own separate

element. < 1544910634 167973 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :

Hyde also said that as a housing provider, it needed to

< 1544910637 176184 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :

“make efficient use of its income to ensure we are able to prioritise building more homes to help address the housing crisis”,

< 1544910641 183974 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :

which meant it had to make difficult choices about what additional services it continued to fund and what it stopped.

< 1544910688 9734 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than that treatment of quotes, the

element seemed like a logical unit for fungotting. The full elements (which is whenever the speaker changes) are pretty long. < 1544910688 56197 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: as a new member, and i can only conclude, therefore, the government have < 1544911643 744566 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1544911832 947623 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wish DeepMind would stop saying things like "AlphaZero learned Chess in 9 hours"... and rather say "Alpha Zero learned chess using 20MWh of electricity" < 1544911864 559056 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they said it once < 1544911902 974266 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not sure what the real number is, but it should be in that ballpark) < 1544911921 992829 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(then arranged for every reader to repeat it a billion times) < 1544911936 326282 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I try to figure out how to best implement the batch notification in my Netsubscribe implementation. I thought to use a SQL table to keep track of what to do (so that if it fails once, you can try again later, by remembering where you left off) < 1544911958 444412 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1544911958 923820 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :LKoen: they have two whitepapers stating this and a number of press releases... so the number is larger than one. < 1544911997 388943 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have some ideas? < 1544912030 442587 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not sure exactly what to put in this table; I tried to figure out but then decided it might not do and try to think of something else. Or is there a better way? < 1544912047 596308 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh no! I think she's a witch! <-- wat < 1544912077 494599 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeet. < 1544912218 89675 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun related number: The human brain consumes about 175kWh a year (assuming 20W, which estimate is backed by the Internet (tm)). < 1544912419 972377 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1544912510 453109 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1544912522 36154 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, she floats on water < 1544912528 502904 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry no < 1544912533 574492 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to start quoting Monty Python < 1544912537 836395 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that rarely leads to anything good < 1544912580 460302 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm actually just listening to Hansel und Gretel, the opera, and it's about witches < 1544912707 672194 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1544913122 906813 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( grand surprise ) < 1544913138 121312 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though, actually, plural? < 1544913194 959683 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :my hon. and learned friend fungot, Ki tett itt csontból, húsból törvényt? < 1544913195 59162 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: on the hon. and learned friend the member for manchester, gorton, and also, i have to some of the people i have been seeing the build-up. seven of the new state pension, the member keeps it uppermost in the prime of our life, and the government and the government of the uk that the government avoid the failings of the uk energy. more have come to the house to do the same is not the will, respect the 62% who were to ben < 1544913198 878631 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course there's the movie... Hansel & Gretel: Witch Hunters < 1544913331 668237 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see you like the government a lot < 1544913896 584276 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :my hon. and learned friend fungot, Kopasszák le fejüket a hegyek, / s tegyék lábadhoz most nyírt erdeik? / Folyását a folyó fordítsa meg? / Borítsa búza vadon vidékeid? < 1544913896 672148 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: a new one, might feel that the title, the new uk government funding, the challenge, and the public, < 1544913906 445928 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-221.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a challenge, yes < 1544916041 973448 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1544916528 722303 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1544916657 335463 :nchambers!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers JOIN :#esoteric