< 1545525089 863190 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1545525337 15913 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1545525435 431072 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1545530409 247026 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1545531298 712367 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@2601:602:8500:d0d1:79d2:ad0e:48ef:dbf2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1545536024 429017 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1545536195 781915 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1545537458 525926 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.218.48 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1545537548 11242 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1545537725 127454 :Camto!41182da2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.24.45.162 JOIN :#esoteric < 1545538082 585618 :Camto!41182da2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.24.45.162 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1545539081 430424 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1545539097 597410 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-110.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: like a dragon? < 1545539116 348523 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-110.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a hellhound that breathes fire? < 1545539277 169426 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-110.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1545539320 105140 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got this weird idea for a fusion of a programming language, editor and database. the premise is that it's based on combinatory logic, but instead of you typing in expressions and evaluating them, combinators are "unevaluated" until you navigate to the branch you want to evaluate and hit "eval". < 1545539346 352234 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you traverse/construct the expression tree like you were navigating a filesystem. < 1545540573 156858 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Those are some examples < 1545541777 830480 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1545541800 643426 :doesthiswork!~Adium@131.191.115.81 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1545541985 646059 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@2601:602:8500:d0d1:79d2:ad0e:48ef:dbf2 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1545542473 453827 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1545543250 343967 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-46-222-150.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2 < 1545544600 82854 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Killed (Sigyn (BANG!)) < 1545544619 355830 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric < 1545546926 386797 :doesthiswork!~Adium@131.191.115.81 JOIN :#esoteric < 1545549021 255861 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dmuhvjkcmhqpwlrw QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1545550487 224237 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Pop MAXXXIM 5* 10New user account < 1545552235 659160 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcjpltykrbgmmx.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1545557140 729239 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds > 1545557407 715838 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58793&oldid=58760 5* 03Pop MAXXXIM 5* (+168) 10/* Introductions */ > 1545557430 222229 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07LolKek14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=58794 5* 03Pop MAXXXIM 5* (+1427) 10Created page with "LolKek - . ..." > 1545557701 196031 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58795&oldid=58789 5* 03Pop MAXXXIM 5* (+13) 10/* L */ > 1545557756 944465 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07LolKek14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58796&oldid=58794 5* 03Pop MAXXXIM 5* (-3) 10 > 1545558269 759069 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07LolKek14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58797&oldid=58796 5* 03Pop MAXXXIM 5* (+783) 10 > 1545558490 854004 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07LolKek14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58798&oldid=58797 5* 03Pop MAXXXIM 5* (+78) 10 < 1545559391 246559 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric > 1545559659 252490 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Andromeda14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58799&oldid=56198 5* 03ZM 5* (+47) 10Related languages < 1545560222 450796 :doesthiswork!~Adium@131.191.115.81 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1545563322 332130 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1545564876 304414 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1545566691 995155 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds > 1545567335 148221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Wire-crossing problem14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58800&oldid=58792 5* 03Ais523 5* (+125) 10/* Boolean circuits? */ sig < 1545568996 259447 :Hoolootwo!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue JOIN :#esoteric < 1545570125 337104 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1545570535 657729 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1545573623 733765 :doesthiswork!~Adium@131.191.115.81 JOIN :#esoteric < 1545574541 68375 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1545574828 241343 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1545575369 647406 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1545575436 30815 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1545577305 948962 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric > 1545577857 604082 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Dirkdev98 5* 10New user account > 1545577999 491524 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58801&oldid=58793 5* 03Dirkdev98 5* (+124) 10/* Introductions */ < 1545578703 989223 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1545578920 335599 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :too we seriously need a policy that articles must be in english... < 1545578924 555726 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*do < 1545578946 774084 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I disagree. we should accept articles in other languages too. < 1545579204 710319 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1545579255 178358 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* < 1545579361 539487 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i take it you understand LolKek perfectly, then. < 1545579370 753614 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1545579373 113478 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1545579394 961182 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suspect it has limited byte size... < 1545579491 60325 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: i mean, the language doesn't even look russian-themed, the command themselves are english-based < 1545579496 714837 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*commands < 1545579506 690877 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just the specification. < 1545579536 375366 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "english-based"? no, those are just assembly mnemonics, the actual commands are single bytes with the bits shown on the right < 1545579583 816084 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even if they were named, so what? have you seen localized Excel or Logo? they're horrible < 1545579624 610036 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes sense to have command mnemonics in English. I mean, think about it, there's not even any sane Hungarian words for "stack", "hash", "deque", and those are just the basics, it gets worse after that when you want loops or something < 1545579663 467410 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: there's a good reason why that one too has docs that calls a stack "стек" < 1545579687 835915 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i didn't notice the bits, they were almost beyond the scrollbar < 1545579706 156594 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, I hate languages like this, stack-based and have arithmetic operations but no comparison < 1545579719 320754 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, like Blindfolded arithmetics > 1545580117 86878 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Re:direction14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58802&oldid=58791 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+5) 10fix link < 1545580187 495760 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.218.48 JOIN :#esoteric > 1545581231 124067 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58803&oldid=58801 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+0) 10*beglmru* > 1545581364 664723 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58804&oldid=58803 5* 03Oerjan 5* (-30) 10Oops > 1545582106 131557 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Re:direction14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58805&oldid=58802 5* 03Oerjan 5* (-5) 10typo < 1545582492 378721 :nchambers!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers JOIN :#esoteric < 1545582613 405371 :nchambers!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers NICK :Rudolph < 1545585823 813781 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1545586148 965261 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-etetkcbabqkyudey JOIN :#esoteric < 1545586447 407223 :rodgort!~rodgort@68.ip-149-56-14.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1545589379 41528 :Rudolph!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2 < 1545591046 489705 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you know their meaning in English then you should write the article in English too < 1545591076 285100 :rodgort!~rodgort@68.ip-149-56-14.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1545591529 181374 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the categories will still need to be English even if the article itself isn't. < 1545591751 769029 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it's not worth for such stupid articles. am I supposed to write good articles on all the brainfuck substitutions too? < 1545591802 529200 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it was something worthwhile, I might document it. I did so with some languages that weren't yet summarized in the esowiki. < 1545592208 876616 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi, if my language expertise is of any use, I’m here < 1545592430 249043 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah seems it isn’t Russian-based, but the description is too terse but it doesn’t seem anything special, just stacks, variables, arithmetic, (bitwise?) logic, delay (what for? but ok) and two strange things named “increment/decrement of the stack by k4” — IDK what it means < 1545592522 70746 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: stacks of limited capacity too < 1545592527 630811 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :VERY limited < 1545592536 913133 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so limited it's basically pointless < 1545592545 30181 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so it’s even Turing-incomplete < 1545592555 694406 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a shame :D :( < 1545592565 234193 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I'm not claiming that. it may have some stuff other than the stack that stores data < 1545592571 634835 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't quite understand what it says < 1545592610 519857 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW have you someone know about algebraic effects? I read about them several months ago and they seemed very beautiful to me < 1545592670 902767 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah you guess right, let me translate, it definitely states the following at the start of the description: < 1545592915 919522 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, you don't have to do, the < 1545592931 782191 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Stack — the main stack, 64 levels [I think it’s not a usual word here, but it should mean the maximal length is 64], with 32-bit value [each level has a 32-bit value, it probably means] < 1545592931 922284 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Stack2 — the additional stack, 32 levels, 32-bit values < 1545592931 969186 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :> variables — 14 in total, with 32-bit values < 1545592935 176218 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : :1:23: error: parse error on input ‘,’ < 1545592935 249584 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : :1:30: error: parse error on input ‘,’ < 1545592935 497716 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : :1:16: error: parse error on input ‘in’ < 1545592953 602799 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sorry lambdabot, I didn’t mean that < 1545592964 649726 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@botsnack < 1545592964 764566 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1545592986 314315 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: do you have a as well? < 1545592986 930333 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: for the hon. and learned friend the minister for that, and i have is sharing the community of fnord, the home of the other channel 4 creative and fnord industries, most fnord junction and areas to be police blind. the 19%, the state, leaving the people with the expertise. < 1545593011 616844 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: a stack of depth 64. seems normal, given that stacks are supposedly illustrated by stacks of plates in elegant buffets moved by a spring so that the top plate is always at the same heigth < 1545593026 546097 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn’t quite place where the author means to take non-zero values for variables (are Incr/Decr for that), though < 1545593047 169321 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think any buffet actually uses such spring mechanism these days, but it's a nice image nevertheless. < 1545593127 675183 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I think “levels” there mean stack cells, there is no sane alternatives, but the author could word it more normally as “стек глубины 64”, literally “of depth 64” < 1545593149 107478 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :a buffet image is interesting, I haven’t heard of it :) < 1545593189 678721 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I don’t remember what image was supposed to illustrate stacks when I first read about them < 1545593208 377221 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "стек" an authentic transcription? < 1545593258 218139 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, there is an alternative стэк, but it is worse and it’s not normative I think < 1545593258 750266 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: yeah, it's a pity there's no good Hungarian translation for "stack", especially not one that doesn't just sound like a "heap", not even counting the ambiguity where "heap" means two completely different things in algorithms < 1545593267 618496 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the state of art is "verem". :-( < 1545593297 937587 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's typical for all the mathematics terminology. it works well in English and even better in French, but very few people care about making it work in Hungarian. < 1545593305 230391 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially these days. < 1545593332 367272 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :IOW, nobody likes Hungarian notation. < 1545593343 490550 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :there’s an inconvenience with Russian е that usually it makes the preceding consonant palatalized, but in loanwords it usually doesn’t. There’s э for that, but a small set of loanwords uses it for that < 1545593375 819642 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :so стек is easier on the eyes, however irregular it really is < 1545593421 215818 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did expect 'э'. But I guess 'styek' is close enough. I agree it's easier on the eyes. < 1545593442 97687 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And closer to actual russian words. < 1545593472 533925 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the end it is what it is. < 1545593495 753422 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: oh, you remind me of поток, which could mean stream or thread. So some people used to translate the latter literally as нить. These days I think people got accustomed to homonymy < 1545593504 760640 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :My New Year's resolution is my New Year's resolution. https://xkcd.com/703/ < 1545593521 68312 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's a steak. though how you can push and pull 32-bit values on a steak, I don't know < 1545593570 12111 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: meh, once you get used to the crazy English homonyms, all the others seem tame < 1545593595 884606 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially of fields. English maths terminology does borrow from german occasionally, so why didn't they just say "corpse" or "corps" or something? < 1545593595 984507 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :A steak is plenty enough for more than 8 nibbles. < 1545593598 106722 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: do note however that it’s read as /stek/, without palatalization (I may have worded that unclearly) < 1545593646 79067 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.madore.org/~david/weblog/d.2015-03-20.2284.html#d.2015-03-20.2284 surely I have linked to this piece of writing about English used for maths articles, right? < 1545593652 530748 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: it didn't get across but I think that's my fault, not yours. < 1545593729 558839 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay :) < 1545593734 363444 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: meh, since I do read some Hungarian texts, I'm totally used to english loanwords being spelled with random english spellings, that NEVER GET CHANGED OVER TO SANE PHONETIC SPELLINGS, ever, not even when the word is obviously nativized and everyone knows it, < 1545593751 216503 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like how people still spell "ímél" as "e-mail", < 1545593774 228182 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the fucking Academy is such a pushover that they even officially allow the latter as a valid alternative in their spelling rules, < 1545593806 164318 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably because they're afraid that if they didn't do so, sysadmins would get angry at them, and sysadmins being angry with you is the right kind of thing to fear. those guys hold lots of power. < 1545593809 331020 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should stick to tradition and say "electronic mail" and "idiotic phone" as we used to. < 1545593876 463549 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1545594345 122926 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don’t like typical Russian attitude to language norm, it’s too strict, people untaught in linguistics proper often believe there can/should be only one correct word spelling or punctuation in a sentence, or that a normative language should be used not only in special places but everywhere, sometimes it gets horrible. I hope the future attitude to Russian language would be more free, and also less commas in the punctuation rules. Cu < 1545594345 215661 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :rrently there is a plethora of purely syntactic commas which do not clarify the meaning, and in several cases they even obscure it as there is a comma after every word (meh). Then on the internets people often write without punctuation at all, as its rules are too complex, and get incoherent < 1545594363 415558 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I’m biased though) < 1545594491 906651 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: ah, prescriptionists < 1545594509 563390 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, "purely syntactic commas"? what are those? < 1545594529 772415 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I will say, that a man must be a d—d fool, who can’t spell a word more than one way." -- https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/06/25/spelling/ tracking down a quote often attributed to Mark Twain. < 1545594533 853884 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Hungarian rules for commas make much more sense than the English ones. I don't understand how you could get anything worse than the random "rules" people use for English < 1545594573 536962 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yeah them < 1545594598 22213 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1545594608 806624 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :In English, most commas are a matter of style, not rules. < 1545594654 78113 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google "Oxford comma" < 1545594655 189196 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.grammarly.com/blog/what-is-the-oxford-comma-and-why-do-people-care-so-much-about-it/ < 1545594738 691270 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I may be exaggerating a bit about the Hungarian rules < 1545594739 793147 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still < 1545594759 848142 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( People have, said that there is no way a comma, can ever be, wrong in English. But people are often wr,ong. ) < 1545594815 877809 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, "purely syntactic commas"? what are those? => I meant here those that surround a syntagm or something sufficietly syntagm-like, for several syntagm types these commas are almost obligatory, for example for postpositive participle phrases (if I mean it right) consisting of not a participle only < 1545594877 384037 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there are many idiosyncratic exceptions almost to every rule, spelling and punctuation alike < 1545594921 648326 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: yeah. like the rule about the comma with certain common conjunctions in Hungarian. those things are crazy. < 1545594927 693698 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only the inter-clause commas that have sane rules. < 1545594928 327208 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas> what? => I mean, prescriptionists < 1545594996 950899 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I myself don’t like some ways to (ab)use language, sometimes even hate, but I don’t want to prescribe my feelings to anyone. At least for now < 1545595030 480837 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: You have to underatand: How can we have our lives governed by computers if there are no strict rules to follow? < 1545595081 478677 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: oh, you mean the people who think spell checkers are always right? both the ones with the american dictionary and the british dictionary? < 1545595108 248635 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the Hungarian dictionaries that try to tell you that Hungarian inflection is deterministic? < 1545595163 711185 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: oh, about conjunctions I can give an interesting example: да when it used as a synonym to и, is written without a comma (as и (and) does, in default case), but with a comma preceding when it’s synonymous to но (but), as does the latter < 1545595250 355656 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I thought people would just figure out from just listening to native speakers inflecting nouns just how random it is and how different people inflect the same uncommon or rare or mythic rare words entirely differently, < 1545595257 993501 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no. < 1545595320 308247 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's certainly some crazy logic to how inflections are formed, because it's one of the main cues how anyone can easily recognize a non-native speaker in Hungarian, even if he's been living here for ten years and has the perfect accent and a large vocabulary < 1545595352 370159 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :normal people's minds are just not made to imitate the crazy contrievances that native Hungarian speakers use to accept some inflected forms and reject others < 1545595448 516784 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: hehe yes. Also we are taught in schools about three noun declensions, then latter there are several (unnumbered) declension types, but the truth that there are much more than these (albeit they are encountered rarely, I presume) remains uncovered < 1545595467 331091 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I was typing too slowly < 1545595479 571184 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was about prescriptionists < 1545595525 184826 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you could make a multiple choice test of just inflecting nouns in hungarian that detects native speakers < 1545595589 715219 :rain2!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1545595637 470346 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1545595724 318920 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grWp doctor < 1545595726 539879 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily:“Sane Mapoleon” boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine. He is also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken, a METARologist, seriously lacking in the f-word department, a thwack doctor, a Quintopial antipodist, and a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world kafkaesque. \ dwfo:DWFO is the Doctor Who Fan Orchestra, . \ semmelweis:Semmelweis saves the life of a hundred thousa < 1545595796 490592 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(my mind found "doctor" in the vicinity of "prescriptionist") < 1545596021 774971 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: they have to be. < 1545596032 326761 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there is a phenomenon of orthoepy, prescriptions about word stress. Russian stress is very wild (and certainly is a problem to non-native learners) for historic reasons, and stress of many word forms is for a long time is in state of flux, but there are people saying that these words should be accented this way and no other, it’s even worse than written-language prescriptionism. They aren’t even consciously aware of what rules s < 1545596032 414375 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :tress does actually follow (and it isn’t taught in schools, because for what reason? natives accentuate almost all words the same way, there’s nothing to teach), and they don’t like something, psh < 1545596175 379459 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: yeah, it's one of those historical raisins thing where the stress rules make sense until a lot of signals that determined stress, like a four times larger vowel inventory than today, was still there in the words to give you a clue about where the stress should fall < 1545596182 163116 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :typical linguistic evolution < 1545596196 743137 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1545596259 250138 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, exceptional words like "kisebb", "lesz", "köpeny", "szőlő", which many people pronounce differently from how they're written, so the spelling has to be specifically taught in school < 1545596300 606020 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope there aren’t so many of them < 1545596313 389108 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Hungarian, I mean < 1545596379 28617 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: there didn't use to be, until people started spelling every word borrowed from English, like ímél and fájl, the English way < 1545596384 858649 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's just more and more of those words < 1545596412 380797 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh so there’s a certain blessing in having non-latin script < 1545596501 837997 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1545596998 395174 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like you said about the stack < 1545597004 723620 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :spelled totally regular < 1545597030 665787 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( "spelt" ) < 1545597168 960226 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have thought that 'full and 'null rhyme, poor me < 1545598637 847038 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.6.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, um, have someone added a language to Try it online? < 1545599577 769087 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had idea of this kind of parsing: The parsing table is an array of cells, each is either blank or a pair of a symbol (a terminal or nonterminal) and action (either a return value or another address). If the symbol is a terminal and it matches, do the action and advance the input; if the symbol is a nonterminal, push the current address to call stack and jump to the address of the nonterminal. < 1545599652 206208 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the action is a return value, add that value to the output and then pop from call stack and do the action specified there. If the action is another address, you jump to that address. If a blank is reached, then you must back track. < 1545599668 354271 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't know what the question is, but ask ais523 < 1545599713 802911 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :My question is how to optimize the grammar and generate an optimized parser table from it? < 1545599793 782214 :derpy!~quassel@ppp-62-216-204-234.dynamic.mnet-online.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1545599813 860009 :derpy!~quassel@ppp-62-216-204-110.dynamic.mnet-online.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1545600512 344536 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing to do is that it will be a context-free grammar and must be made proper. < 1545600890 731869 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some kind of optimizations that would be possible includes that subtables can be merged if they are same or if one is a suffix of the other one (so that some possible symbols are not possible in one of the cases). Also to consider merging meaning codes of terminal symbols, to reduce the size of the parse table. < 1545600895 12032 :rain2!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: is this different to LALR parsing? < 1545600904 185226 :rain2!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds very similar < 1545600912 539043 :rain2!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you can just use the LALR algorithm < 1545600945 186960 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it? LALR doesn't have back tracking, isn't it? < 1545601288 127688 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :LALR parsing tables also are working differently than what I mentioned, I think. < 1545602031 51273 :rain2!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1545603119 501329 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: rebooting < 1545603244 421370 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1545603917 672362 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcjpltykrbgmmx.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds > 1545605773 328494 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Re:direction14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58806&oldid=58805 5* 03Ais523 5* (+96) 10/* Hello world program */ switch to Esolang, not TIO, capitalisation > 1545605846 942067 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Re:direction14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58807&oldid=58806 5* 03Ais523 5* (+83) 10/* External resources */ TIO link > 1545605932 438789 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:The Waterfall Model14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58808&oldid=58785 5* 03Ais523 5* (+196) 10/* Truth-machine */ OK, this is correct then > 1545606056 175539 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Re:direction14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58809&oldid=58807 5* 03Ais523 5* (+1) 10/* Computational class */ typo fix < 1545606174 316858 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1545606199 581462 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: real parsers use something quite similar to your mechanism, but it has to be more complex because the way that a terminal is translated to a value often depends on context < 1545606290 700158 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how you'd determine which cell of the table to use in your mechanism; after backtracking you'd have to somehow reach a different cell the next time < 1545606300 452133 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in that case, the choice of cell has to depend on context < 1545606325 504711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the result once you do that will end up fairly close to either LR(1), LALR, or GLR; I'm not sure if it will be exactly the same < 1545606906 465772 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :After backtracking you try the cell immediately after the one you have used before (it may be blank, in which case you have to backtrack again). < 1545607032 947448 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hey! I successfully summoned ais523 from wherever he's hiding behind the logs. that's so rare!@ < 1545607085 911599 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh, I see < 1545607143 3685 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that just recursive descent? < 1545607278 692905 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it is similar, although includes the possibility to undo tokens that have already been accepted. < 1545607383 574031 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can do that in recursive descent too if the language naturally has backtracking < 1545607391 139797 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. parsers in Prolog commonly use recursive descent < 1545607726 757502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on another subject: is a TCness proof (without I/O) for Blindfolded Arithmetic on two variables total, X starting at 1, Y starting at 0; I linked it so that people can avoid spoilers if they want to < 1545607759 320723 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it is, probably unsurprisingly, ridiculously inefficient < 1545607775 800754 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was a little surprised by which language I ended up implementing < 1545608125 541125 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does ghc use it to parse the contradictory fixity statements that affect where the invisible braces are earlier in the code? or is that using a sat solver? < 1545608145 977128 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: whoa, two variables proved? wow < 1545608154 360950 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll definitely not look at it yet < 1545608163 229749 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to figure out how three variables are possible. < 1545608200 363615 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :three was so much easier because you had a temporary < 1545608214 469706 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with two you have to go the really long way round to get anywhere :-( < 1545608218 652485 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well yes, that's sort of the point. with enough temporaries, it becomes trivial < 1545608235 652903 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, for just storing data, obviously just one bigint is more than enough < 1545608267 399483 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :my current idea is to use a base 4 deque that we try to access from both sides, but I'm not sure it really works with just three variables < 1545608536 507883 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that base 4 deque example reminds me a lot of High Rise < 1545608578 499299 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if four variables can emulate two stacks, then maybe one variable can emulate one stack that's not really a stack < 1545608693 4513 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it gets ugly, because you need to preserve a power of two variable around the loop an arbitrary number of times < 1545608734 118901 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you want something limited to like 2**32 stack elements, because you could totally do that because Blindfolded can square powers of two in one operation, so surely it can generate any power of two up to 2**32 in O(32) operations < 1545608762 127693 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you wouldn't call that Turing-complete, right? it would be sufficient for me to claim the language can practically do anything, but you keep me straight about those things < 1545608773 191655 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I would call that a bounded-storage machine < 1545608786 417654 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is one of those computational classes which is practically very useful but theoretically not very interesting (other than the issues with defining it) < 1545608812 528095 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what led to me thinking deeper about Consumer society (it didn't have that name yet) to figure out if it can actually emulate a RAM machine that can theoretically grow arbitrarily big, < 1545608839 569242 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to just emulate one that can grow to a limit in a few consecutive up arrows from the code size < 1545608860 749408 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes it can, but it's harder than just the up arrow construction, and that's what makes it an interesting language < 1545608902 377968 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a turing machine or just a fixed size RAM is easy, but you can put them together, which is why Consumer society is so magical that I have to document it before someone figures out what the language is from all the hints I've been dropping < 1545608949 611526 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got the idea that Consumer society is obviously TC but not obviously efficiently TC < 1545608979 53475 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sort of the reverse, at least to my way of thinking < 1545609020 564064 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can obviously emulate a 32-bit memory, or even a 64-bit memory (I mean, you just double the code size or something), but the TC was a surprise to me < 1545609045 404287 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's that thing where if you make something powerful enough, it automatically becomes TC. you have to do difficult stuff to STOP it from being TC. < 1545609064 767927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, seeing a partially uncapitalised proper noun bothers me, I guess this is why so many people miscapitalise brainfuck < 1545609119 481466 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't buy the british concept of capitalizing everything < 1545609140 752338 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would real wizards write "Quidditch" with a capital? it's an ordinary proper noun. and "Apparition" too? < 1545609145 632683 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, "proper nouns use capital letters" is a grammar rule of English in much the same way as "plurals normally end in s" is < 1545609169 309170 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1545609171 461167 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that screams of it being narrated from an outside perspective where they're not ordinary common words, but practically HP trademarks in our worls < 1545609187 16500 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not like HP started that, Winnie the Pooh is full of that stuff too < 1545609204 738682 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the original version has way more capitalized words than Karinthy's translation < 1545609292 547685 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one reason to capitalise a term in English is that it's a technical term that has been introduced for a specific context, as a clue that you've redefined the word away from its normal meaning < 1545609323 367591 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. when we play Mafia, "day" refers to a 24-hour real-life period, "Day" to a simulated day within the game's internal timescale (which doesn't normally run in realtime) < 1545609332 562331 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, because quidditch wouldn't stand out as an obviously made up word otherwise < 1545609386 768107 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sports tend to only get a lowercase name once they become really popular < 1545609414 66285 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like extreme ironing? < 1545609414 936116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think chess may be close to the borderline, the initial C tends to hover between uppercase and lowercase depending on who you ask < 1545609424 116424 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that's a better example < 1545609443 765785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :extreme ironing is a descriptive name, rather than an organised activity < 1545609451 478793 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you capitalised it I'd expect there to be a formal ruleset written down somewhere < 1545609473 877500 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1545609491 815541 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the truth of the matter is simply that Hungarian has totally different and weird rules for capitalization, and I'm used to them < 1545609501 727146 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. the Extreme Ironing World Championships has capital letters, unsurprisingly < 1545609547 706539 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even though some of them are really stupid, I prefer it over capitalizing every instance of "Monday" as if it wasn't a common name for the day of week concept that existed for OVER FOUR THOUSAND YEARS but got its name later < 1545609551 736864 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, "Monday"? < 1545609565 431953 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, "August" I can get behind, if the legends about a certain roman emperor are true < 1545609584 958716 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-66.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's in like the top few most successful historical figures of Europe