< 1547164881 48278 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: bbs < 1547165014 395800 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1547165447 803489 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1547165636 45762 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-139.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1547166891 314943 :zer0python!~jk@unaffiliated/zer0python JOIN :#esoteric < 1547166925 696331 :zer0python!~jk@unaffiliated/zer0python PART :#esoteric > 1547167034 571844 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07P0pCrn14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59039 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+1925) 10Created page with "[[P0pCrn]] is an esolang made by [[User: Areallycoolusername]]. It's based off of x86 Assembly and it has cells. == Specifics == [[P0pCrn]] code is made up of three columns..." > 1547167198 24107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07P0pCrn14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59040&oldid=59039 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+39) 10 > 1547167348 528593 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59041&oldid=59012 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+34) 10/* P */ < 1547167399 825379 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1547167796 661429 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm max\+im is back < 1547167807 231697 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see if e's done anything bannable > 1547168025 149828 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Category:Turing complete14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59042&oldid=59031 5* 03Oerjan 5* (-11) 10Undo revision 59031 by [[Special:Contributions/Maxim228|Maxim228]] ([[User talk:Maxim228|talk]]) < 1547168125 60380 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric > 1547168260 766232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59043&oldid=59032 5* 03Oerjan 5* (-42) 10Undo revision 59032 by [[Special:Contributions/Maxim228|Maxim228]] ([[User talk:Maxim228|talk]]) (It's really not interesting enough for this list, or funny.) > 1547168457 374418 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Featured languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59044&oldid=59036 5* 03Oerjan 5* (-42) 10Undo revision 59036 by [[Special:Contributions/Maxim228|Maxim228]] ([[User talk:Maxim228|talk]]) (Featuring process doesn't work that way, and the language isn't good enough.) < 1547169095 577616 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1547169256 74730 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1547169301 670447 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1547170743 825805 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1547171508 157467 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1547172344 28309 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1547172417 54123 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1547172733 834823 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1547172918 128759 :jake!80d26a31@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.210.106.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1547173108 827246 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1547173122 219374 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@host81-136-106-230.range81-136.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: john_metcalf < 1547173158 358769 :jake!80d26a31@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.210.106.49 QUIT :Client Quit < 1547173624 823270 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-54-136-115.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.3 < 1547176781 441393 :uplime!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers JOIN :#esoteric < 1547177170 144537 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 JOIN :#esoteric > 1547177929 641241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nellephant14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59045&oldid=59025 5* 03Zzo38 5* (+30) 10Link to the explanation of NL complexity class > 1547178255 404160 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nellephant14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59046&oldid=59045 5* 03Ais523 5* (-3) 10it's not in policy yet, but people have been unpiping links to Wikipedia too (which makes sense as they may not be expecting interwiki links), so do that here too > 1547178295 145375 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nellephant14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59047&oldid=59046 5* 03Ais523 5* (-11) 10remove some redundancy that was created as a result of the previous change < 1547178390 992748 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was working out how to write 2-SAT in Nellephant < 1547178445 616020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :co-2-SAT is easy, 2-SAT is possible but mindbogglingly hard (it's worth looking up the basic idea behind the NL/co-NL equivalence, it's not obvious at all) just to solve as a decision problem < 1547178459 154232 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: this is all in my head, I didn't write it down) < 1547178565 707070 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing 2-SAT and actually writing the results takes some thought too; the idea is to build the implication graph, then if anything's forced due to being implied by its negation, output that, and if the value of something isn't forced, take the longest chain of connected components you can go through going forwards via implications from both it and its negation, and whichever one has the shorter chain is the one you should output (you can prove that < 1547178567 133029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this will produce consistent outputs) < 1547178571 666933 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nellephant sort of needs a way to do the Immerman-Szelepcsényi Theorem < 1547178619 653750 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the two chains are the same length, you need to make an arbitrary-but-consistent-within-the-connected-component choice, such as by looking at whether the alphabetically earliest variable in the connected component happens to be negated or not < 1547178897 659913 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, i'm not sure if i previously knew 2SAT was NL-complete < 1547178930 740307 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i thought it was P-complete or so < 1547178967 255590 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1547178979 866956 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :P-complete is hard to define < 1547178987 391323 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NP-complete means "if this is in P, everything else is" < 1547178990 820721 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the existence of P is important < 1547179015 808240 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if, say, 3SAT turned out to be in NL (which would be very unexpected), I don't think that automatically forces NP=NL < 1547179017 698934 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, you use L-reductions (or maybe even lower), like with NL-completeness < 1547179018 306380 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have an interpreter for Nellephant in progress? Without examples or an interpreter to play with, I haven't quite got the NL-ness yet, not that I have sat down to give it a proper investigation < 1547179036 942902 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need to say "NP-complete via reductions in P" < 1547179043 474051 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think NL would make a decent reduction class for P-completeness < 1547179050 636509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :salpynx: not currently, I want to write one but haven't started < 1547179090 661712 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are NP-complete problems that are so with L-reductions. i suspect 3SAT is one. < 1547179125 695547 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1547179187 993125 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still trying to get my head around rules of NL like "you can iterate over a set only if you know how many items it has" < 1547179190 748649 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 3SAT in NL should imply NL=P. < 1547179234 340522 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm curious as to whether you can do primality testing in NL; it wouldn't surprise me if you could even if NL≠P < 1547179242 962668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I also think nobody knows how < 1547179287 393443 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think would have been a famous result if anything lower than P was known < 1547179290 810734 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it would < 1547179292 912350 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that mean the instruction set is still in progress, or are you confident that the existing instructions are sufficient for NL? < 1547179305 320510 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, even being in P was a big result < 1547179312 425209 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :salpynx: confident in the existing instructions < 1547179321 659137 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1547179324 660785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the spec should be final atm (apart from possibly the preprocessor but that doesn't change computational class) < 1547179803 288596 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: stasoid has started expanding the polyglot again, at ferocious speed < 1547179912 763819 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's ridiculous, but amazing < 1547179919 777555 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for anyone who hasn't seen it, oerjan is talking about https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/102370/add-a-language-to-a-polyglot > 1547179931 326443 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07$ $14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59048 5* 03Cortex 5* (+813) 10Created page with "{{DISPLAYTITLE:$_$}} {{WIP}} '''$_$''' (pronounced ''soos'') is an esolang by [[User:Cortex|]] where strings of a certain character are commands. == Constants == {| class="wik..." < 1547179945 873556 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a polyglot so ridiculous that it just ended up being called "the polyglot" < 1547180208 235675 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got massively downvoted on global SE meta for pointing out that there's an instance of a person getting a silver tag badge off a single question < 1547180217 800992 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because apparently they thought PPCG shouldn't count < 1547180225 587145 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(stasoid, off the polyglot) < 1547180496 818276 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing, I found another unicode based esolang, A-gram, to add to my list of non-Latin charset esolangs, and the last entry is in Nikud, for which I added a page on the wiki for recently < 1547180540 288595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most modern golfing languages use their own set of 256 arbitrary characters (that either fit their commands well, or that are easy to type) < 1547180555 255046 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they typically contain all of printable ASCII though, so I'm not sure that counts < 1547180768 232726 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :re primes-in-NL, a simpler problem is if division (or modulo) is in NL < 1547180787 682996 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiplication is, I think (in fact, it's in L) < 1547181113 497508 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :division is too, but that's a major theorem < 1547181124 291484 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in L) < 1547181189 272397 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what's so weird about L and NL, "addition is easy, subtraction is easy, multiplication is easy, division is so difficult it's a major theorem that it's even possible" < 1547181195 800635 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's why it makes a good esolang < 1547181213 355630 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiplication of a _list_ of numbers is as hard as division < 1547181328 98967 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trivially appending or adding 'ιιθθχθιιιιιιιιιιιιιιιιυς' to the polyglot in a way that doesn't break anything else would output 241 in my esolang ΙΧΘΥΣ... < 1547181358 181929 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main trick in the proof is finding a way to compare numbers in "list of == m_i (mod p_i) form" < 1547181408 163351 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you have that, you can do arithmetic in this form, and then convert it to a normal base < 1547181446 146664 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*"list of == m_i (mod p_i) restrictions" form < 1547181481 717013 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :salpynx: those are rarely used characters, there's probably somewhere safe to put it < 1547181507 170049 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are many points in the polyglot that are only parsed by languages which parse everything, and such languages typically ignore characters they don't understand < 1547181523 646758 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :try putting it in with the emojis, for example < 1547181557 160270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, verifying the polyglot still works can be hard, we have a verifier on Try It Online that can do much of the work but I don't think it does everything < 1547181657 438192 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'm not confident I'd be testing it sufficiently. < 1547181715 49050 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we used to have a chatroom specifically for this but it got frozen for lack of use < 1547181718 581310 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been helping stasoid with some haskell variants but i left the testing to em < 1547181747 851273 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I could get another easy entry with my Runic language, but it can't output anything that's not runes either... I made a point of added that as a feature :) < 1547181757 888646 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1547181880 30983 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're reminding me of the HELL0 W0RLD! program in Radixal!!!! ("(Yes, this means that although arbitrary codepoints can be input, it's not possible to output arbitrary codepoints; programmers are encouraged to find similar-looking codepoints that can be output and use them instead.)") < 1547184014 803064 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1547185317 506511 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zerjxeoirasbqdrb QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1547187494 460941 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07$ $14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59049&oldid=59048 5* 03Cortex 5* (+1597) 10 < 1547188091 270073 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-54-136-115.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1547189311 801242 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1547192555 486055 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1547192568 485012 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1547193056 236064 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hexlr714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59050&oldid=58948 5* 03Cortex 5* (-191) 10 > 1547193105 284460 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DoEverything();14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59051&oldid=58415 5* 03Cortex 5* (+144) 10 < 1547193450 816083 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1547193817 470856 :hakatashi1!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN :#esoteric < 1547194049 769872 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds > 1547194701 405051 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07$ $14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59052&oldid=59049 5* 03Cortex 5* (+370) 10 > 1547195172 940721 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07$ $14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59053&oldid=59052 5* 03Cortex 5* (+124) 10 > 1547195940 494463 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07List of quines14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59054&oldid=56825 5* 03Cortex 5* (+22) 10 < 1547196440 453391 :uplime!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1547196899 213 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1547197045 982605 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1547197228 344215 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1547197239 692126 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26ze7mm4q737w3j4.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1547197648 957127 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26ze7mm4q737w3j4.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1547197666 688806 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcjpltykrbgmmx.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1547198209 152752 :uplime!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers JOIN :#esoteric < 1547198260 689955 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcjpltykrbgmmx.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1547198268 40321 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1547198802 62200 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1547199074 55011 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1547199153 940767 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcjpltykrbgmmx.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1547199459 12493 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-92.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1547199543 684639 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-92.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :composite testing in P => yeah, I remember that, it was in my lifetime. people kept amending their textbooks that used to give composite testing as an example for something for which we knew a randomized polytime algorithm even in the stronger sense but not a deterministic one. < 1547199543 967547 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcjpltykrbgmmx.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1547199565 961125 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-92.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 downvoted on main meta => that's normal. lots of things get surprisingly downvoted on main meta. < 1547199597 321392 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-92.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :stasoid expanding the polyglot => yeah. also bountied it by the way, to encourage company. < 1547200059 800914 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-92.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rhetorical question. back when I was young, I asked a friend for a simple way to write a polyglot program that was definitely valid in both C and C++, but could distinguish whether it was compiled by C or C++, but _without_ using the difference in the type of character literals (like '0') < 1547200091 57663 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-92.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :he gave me an answer, but that answer was more complicated than just sizeof(0<1) < 1547200128 357233 :uplime!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1547200130 437406 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-92.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question is, since this was well after C++03, and we've both read Strostroup's book for the C++03 edition, how the heck did we not know that 0<1 was a bool in C++? < 1547200139 529957 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-92.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, how did we both miss such a simple fact? < 1547200152 733309 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's sizeof(bool)? < 1547200165 15296 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-92.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: 1 in most implementations, though it could be 4 < 1547200185 969559 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-92.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's implementation-defined < 1547200199 497381 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there implementations allowed where sizeof(bool) == sizeof(int)? < 1547200253 998714 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-92.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: there could be, according to the standard. I think there might actually be ones, but I'm not sure. < 1547200269 706072 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-92.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it comes up on RISC CPUs that can't address bytes in the memory < 1547200273 322473 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-92.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not easily anyway < 1547200297 924131 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, sizeof(0<1) may fail to distinguish < 1547200308 712639 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-92.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but those are typically old RISC CPUs, so it's not clear if there are C++ compilers for them < 1547200327 570045 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-92.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: yeah. I wonder if there's an easy way to always distinguish that works for this polyglot < 1547200341 321892 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Behaviour of auto? < 1547200344 490328 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-92.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, it's easy to distinguish just in C++ with overloaded functions, or just in C11 < 1547200355 632943 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-92.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: this was back in C++03, C++11 auto didn't yet exist < 1547200360 559726 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right < 1547200377 985486 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-92.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or... maybe it did but it was in its infancy and not yet in compilers we had < 1547200392 546462 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-92.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was probably around 2007 or so < 1547200452 542330 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-92.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I missed the type difference because I didn't expect that strostroup would change such a basic fact of C. I mean, how _dares_ he? < 1547200474 702715 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-92.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, it doesn't actually cause incompatibility in practice, but still < 1547200584 216965 :Luciole!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, can you design something that relies on the difference in `NULL` in C and C++? < 1547200649 552151 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-92.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Luciole: perhaps... I don't know. you have to be careful because how null pointers work at compile time keeps getting changed even between C versions and between C++ versions < 1547200654 430632 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-92.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can probably be done < 1547200673 541409 :Luciole!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nod* < 1547200687 144906 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1547200728 722073 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-54-136-115.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.3 < 1547200744 100660 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NULL could be the same in both before C++11 < 1547200790 92164 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or... maybe it's more subtle than that < 1547200820 961704 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1547200871 998474 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-92.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have to mind the other differences between C and C++ pointers at compile time: in C you can implicit convert a (void *) to any pointer freely, and implicit convert a pointer to an integer with a warning, or something like that, whereas in C++ both are errors < 1547200876 698870 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-92.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall all the details < 1547200912 486259 :Luciole!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, *nod* < 1547200917 895070 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-92.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: nope, it was effectively 0 in C but (void *)0 in C++... perhaps not definitely those expressions, but that's the gist, they're different types < 1547200937 618956 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-92.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why you can't put an uncasted NULL into an execl or other vararg call and expect it to pass a pointer < 1547201037 388689 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I'm not convinced that's true (looking at cppreference.com) < 1547201200 101168 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-92.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: it's not true in the sense that you still can't do it in C++ in theory, because it's the wrong type of pointer < 1547201209 341033 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-92.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(void *) versus the expected (char *) < 1547201245 448120 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-92.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in practice it Just Works in C because an int 0 will be seen as a null pointer by the actual compiled vararg function on typical machines < 1547201279 680981 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I'm not convinced it's true that they were effectively different < 1547201383 418581 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-92.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: hmm... maybe I remember this wrong. I don't know. < 1547201410 132350 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm looking at https://en.cppreference.com/w/c/types/NULL and https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/types/NULL as my sources < 1547201506 745242 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-92.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: apparently it's backwards from what I said < 1547201516 386408 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-92.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was (void *) in C but int in C++ < 1547201692 81361 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1547201880 139158 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds > 1547201944 310567 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07LolKek14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59055&oldid=59038 5* 03Maxim228 5* (+1408) 10 > 1547202244 366164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07$ $14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59056&oldid=59053 5* 03Cortex 5* (+638) 10 < 1547202516 163527 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@2601:602:8500:d0d1:5410:d0f6:4076:f8c6 JOIN :#esoteric > 1547203029 462028 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07LolKek14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59057&oldid=59055 5* 03Maxim228 5* (-229) 10 > 1547203670 901525 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07LolKek14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59058&oldid=59057 5* 03Maxim228 5* (+0) 10 < 1547204350 741914 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1547205381 569492 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-92.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Im Krapfenwaldl" by Johann Strauss would work well as a monophonic tune, even from just a beeper. It should be used as background music for early levels of a video game. Only... some people hate the Strauss family's music, so the game would need a setting to mute them, plus an allergy warning on the packaging. < 1547205488 495399 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-92.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1547206164 728352 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1547207214 128308 :uplime!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers JOIN :#esoteric < 1547207443 279348 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.140.88.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1547209076 760431 :uplime!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1547209459 234568 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.140.88.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1547209496 899880 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.140.88.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1547209983 398689 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1547211026 127390 :uplime!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers JOIN :#esoteric < 1547211307 133085 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1547212950 406068 :uplime!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1547213149 652507 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1547213175 543899 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1547213200 482839 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1547213240 144781 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ptbaxnlkiwrkgwml JOIN :#esoteric < 1547214484 165159 :uplime!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers JOIN :#esoteric < 1547214753 312901 :uplime!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1547216046 859152 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcjpltykrbgmmx.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1547216502 865749 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcjpltykrbgmmx.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1547216539 185304 :uplime!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers JOIN :#esoteric < 1547217853 432327 :uplime!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1547218449 833779 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcjpltykrbgmmx.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1547219524 197491 :uplime!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers JOIN :#esoteric < 1547219868 857792 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcjpltykrbgmmx.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1547219949 121120 :Galaya!188c3678@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.140.54.120 JOIN :#esoteric < 1547219953 377148 :Galaya!188c3678@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.140.54.120 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1547219956 581 :Galaya!188c3678@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.140.54.120 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello? < 1547221439 138070 :Galaya!188c3678@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.140.54.120 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1547222199 390004 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1547222280 809401 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1547222345 163820 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1547222463 863459 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcjpltykrbgmmx.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1547222762 221362 :uplime!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1547222871 174715 :nchambers!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers JOIN :#esoteric < 1547223399 851093 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcjpltykrbgmmx.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds > 1547223663 333024 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Maxim22814]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59059 5* 03Maxim228 5* (+11) 10Created page with "Hey,wassup?" < 1547224878 746504 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1547225434 394612 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1547225715 977572 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1547230104 870406 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe JOIN :#esoteric < 1547231074 404785 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1547231471 265024 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-228.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1547232201 579584 :nchambers!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers NICK :also_uplime > 1547232610 683955 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Mu614]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59060&oldid=57127 5* 03BMO 5* (-15) 10 > 1547232652 178957 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Alchemist14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59061&oldid=58525 5* 03BMO 5* (+53) 10 > 1547232694 44359 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59062&oldid=58867 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+285) 10 > 1547232750 150495 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59063&oldid=59062 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+14) 10/* P0pCrn */ > 1547232951 910630 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07P0pCrn14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59064&oldid=59040 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+20) 10 < 1547233211 748327 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1547234328 411304 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1547234700 287876 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1547238358 395828 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1547238887 849901 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a JOIN :#esoteric < 1547238887 939953 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a QUIT :Changing host < 1547238887 940012 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1547239193 981379 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1547239367 723001 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be NICK :AnotherTe < 1547239372 311755 :AnotherTe!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Client Quit < 1547239587 475464 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric > 1547239804 687627 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07$ $14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59065&oldid=59056 5* 03Cortex 5* (+31) 10 < 1547240302 514915 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1547241153 453606 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1547241264 408483 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1547242769 771866 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1547242958 71424 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1547243996 687634 :hexfive!~hexfive@50-54-136-115.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1547245442 808082 :also_uplime!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1547245882 243256 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dxdaenwbifwurbyd JOIN :#esoteric < 1547248677 837279 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.140.88.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1547249285 623101 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Read error: error:1408F10B:SSL routines:ssl3_get_record:wrong version number < 1547249357 868030 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1547249588 386346 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-228.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving