< 1549411533 273564 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1549411602 294569 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( putting a hyphen in sourcereal is a bit scow, but i guess better than nonexistence. ) < 1549412551 520097 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes. < 1549412560 901335 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like this is better than going with a .org or something. < 1549412577 545159 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a better domain I can use that instead. < 1549414737 108350 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-34.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1549415958 867125 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dynpzaxkndaouzfn QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1549419316 779570 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1549421239 28772 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59722&oldid=59720 5* 03Orby 5* (+0) 10/* Examples */ > 1549421312 523789 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59723&oldid=59722 5* 03Orby 5* (-1) 10/* Examples */ > 1549422012 626504 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59724&oldid=59723 5* 03Orby 5* (+0) 10/* Instructions */ < 1549423483 597452 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: https://www.reddit.com/r/QuantumComputing/comments/anawy4/alpha_testers_needed_for_quantum_computing_for/ > 1549423542 747168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59725&oldid=59724 5* 03Orby 5* (+131) 10 > 1549423611 574570 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59726&oldid=59725 5* 03Orby 5* (-3) 10/* See Also */ > 1549423626 243897 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59727&oldid=59726 5* 03Orby 5* (+0) 10/* See Also */ > 1549423677 135923 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59728&oldid=59727 5* 03Orby 5* (-41) 10/* See Also */ < 1549425136 621953 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :skeptical of this so far < 1549425208 672134 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom quantum < 1549425209 369356 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not wise. < 1549425214 427545 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what! < 1549425255 106136 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le/rn quantum leap//A quantum leap is a very small leap. See dragons. < 1549425257 253358 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'quantum leap': A quantum leap is a very small leap. See dragons. < 1549425378 705210 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sam has a point < 1549425778 651536 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1549426993 739558 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1549427508 265015 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549428178 264196 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1549428418 300798 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1549431116 359025 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Eodermdrome14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59729&oldid=59700 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+963) 10/* Computational class / -completeness */ oops, I now see what you mean, thanks for clarifying! < 1549432680 912441 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.203.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Quit: gone completely :o > 1549434876 711613 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deadfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59730&oldid=59585 5* 03A 5* (+272) 10/* TeXnicard */ > 1549434975 410747 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deadfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59731&oldid=59730 5* 03A 5* (+8) 10/* This=That */ < 1549435301 436280 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549436860 936850 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the more edits i see from that A, the more i wish he needed to be here at least once < 1549436881 157394 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom dragons < 1549436882 463191 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not wise. < 1549436895 786191 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am disappointed > 1549443589 271322 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Print Function Deluxe14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59732 5* 03Cortex 5* (+1496) 10Created page with "'''Print Function Deluxe''' is an esolang made by [[User:Cortex|]] designed to have very small code and many useful commands, but the only way to see what it actually did thro..." < 1549443725 951529 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds > 1549443765 542275 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59733&oldid=59679 5* 03Cortex 5* (+65) 10 > 1549444321 930749 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59734&oldid=59713 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+22) 10/* Non-alphabetic */ (Rna) < 1549445718 598185 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric > 1549447655 76361 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59735&oldid=59022 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+216) 10/* Commands */ fill in missing commands (based on Buslubn, istil formula code) > 1549448141 468833 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59736&oldid=59735 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+25) 10/* Commands */ < 1549448753 309889 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1549451439 770039 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549451560 523284 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb invented the fulgurator, an explosive with such destructive power that any military who knew its secret could single-handedly rule the world. Taneb tried to sell the super-weapon to several governments, but the representatives all said no. They called Taneb mad, they laughed at him. < 1549451625 868756 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Taneb would show them, he'd show them all. Even if he had to sell the weapon to the shadiest criminal through the underground, the fulgurator would be produced and its dominance over traditional weapons would rule the world. The government representatives won't be laughing then! < 1549451650 815804 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1549451671 693431 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1549451712 523353 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: meh, A1 one is at least more interesting and partially specified to a higher degree than some of A's other languages. I mean, come on, he's even wrote a page about a brainfuck derivative. < 1549451753 1560 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm speaking relatively here, mind you. < 1549451775 347131 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't mean A1 in particular < 1549451804 207588 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1549451818 592016 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed you didn't specifically mention A1 < 1549451835 848202 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just looks like he makes trivial substitutes of anything obscure he can find < 1549452050 843337 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly, but his edits don't seem significantly different than that of the boring newcomers that the wiki sometimes gets, A just edits in a higher quantity < 1549452221 79394 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, he certainly does not lack motivation, but imho he could do much better if he'd get direct feedback from here < 1549452410 265933 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? fulgurator < 1549452411 303723 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fulgurator? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1549452441 777156 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` grep -REi "fu[lr]?gu[rl]" wisdom < 1549452443 908949 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1549452452 8548 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` grep -REi "fu[lr]?gu" wisdom < 1549452453 32333 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1549452455 811303 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` grep -REi "fu[lr]?g" wisdom < 1549452456 931577 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/fugal:Fugals are fictitious flower parts. \ wisdom/fug:Fug is the opposite of Unfug (german: un-fug). < 1549452475 816282 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the fug one < 1549452493 942172 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if is true, though < 1549452497 789534 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it < 1549452649 480083 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my hon. and learned friend fungot, has Taneb invented the fulgurator? < 1549452650 7641 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: what is the minister going to the press, and to be in, the hospital in copeland, that the conservatives. he slightly missed to give us the best possible support, compared to a national average of just 1.5 prosecutions per council. < 1549452664 177007 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copeland? < 1549452682 681789 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.5 prosecutions per council? < 1549452707 667381 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` grep -REi "fung" wisdom < 1549452708 871135 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/marmite:Marmite is a hive mind of fungal microorganisms spreading throughout the supermarkets of the Commonwealth. \ wisdom/deewiant:Deewiant is the world expert on Befunge conformance testing. \ wisdom/children:Children are a fungible commodity. \ wisdom/mycology:mycology is a Befunge-98 (also -93 to some extent) testsuite that can be found at https://deewiant.iki.fi/projects/mycology/ \ wisdom/füngöt:Füngöt is the German pronunciation of fungo < 1549452733 78031 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` grep -REi "fung" wisdom | tail -n+5 < 1549452734 224613 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/füngöt:Füngöt is the German pronunciation of fungot. \ wisdom/zzo38:zzo38 is not actually the next version of fungot, much as it may seem. \ wisdom/pietbot:Pietbot is the only thing that can defeat fungot. \ wisdom/prefixes:Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ . \ wisdom/fnordcore:Fnordcore is fungot's favorite music genre. \ wisdom/fungot:fungot is our beloved ch < 1549452753 737431 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` grep -REi "fung" wisdom | tail -n+10 < 1549452754 723710 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/fungot:fungot is our beloved channel mascot and voice of reason. \ wisdom/befunge:In the Beginning was Befunge. And Befunge begot Fungot. And Fungot got Taneb. And Taneb tanebvented All the Things. Fnord. \ wisdom/page:The smallest floating-point number is known as pages. Fungot discovered it. \ wisdom/word salad detector:Our only word salad detectors before fungot proposed bright full speed under the mediterranean guadalope a light sauce impertinen < 1549452780 873052 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` grep -REi "fung" wisdom | tail -n+13 < 1549452782 8241 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/word salad detector:Our only word salad detectors before fungot proposed bright full speed under the mediterranean guadalope a light sauce impertinent used the best brains of codeine fragments emerge from the red arrow shark-repellant housewife a smattering and yes I said yes I will Yes. < 1549453773 480421 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1549453896 694778 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549453904 683109 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549454205 668520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1549454277 465005 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549454348 468235 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1549454435 308958 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know very little of ordinary differential equations, probably less than what was required to get the passing grade on the mandatory course on them back lots of years ago. those fundamental theorems about existance and uniqueness and smoothness of ODE solutions, what do they say about the system you can write in Analogia? < 1549454490 919086 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, how are the input and output functions supposed to work? < 1549454584 846618 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way how Analogia allows you to put any variable on the right hand side of the differential operator makes this system real strange, I don't think I can even define what they're supposed to mean < 1549454610 71056 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(plus they look incorrect without a parenthesis around those sums, but that's a different matter) < 1549454922 348075 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if they always said dt, that would be nice and simpler < 1549455315 246770 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :being able to put anything on the RHS is the main advantage that mechanical analog computers have < 1549455329 762291 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not too hard to understand if you think about it in terms of rates of change < 1549455358 139902 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a given integrator, the sum tells you how fast the value of the integrator changes in response to a change in the differential variable < 1549455392 998983 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how mechanical analog computers worked, and I don't even really like the idea of mechanical analog computers. computers should be electronical. < 1549455398 482803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a mechanical integrator is basically a varying-ratio gear, there's a gear-like system set up between the differential variable and the integrator's value, and the value being integrated sets the ratio < 1549455453 952467 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think viewing Analogia as a differential equation is a bit of a red herring, it's much easier to understand using integrals than derivatives < 1549455468 477236 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but there's the problem that the stuff after the dee can turn back (have a zero derivative) in which case the simple implementation runs into a division by zero < 1549455489 110990 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(incidentally, electronic analog computers require dt in all their integrators, but I think you lose a lot of computational power doing that and have to add it back using extra primitives; however, electronic analog computers can easily implement derivatives, which mechanical analog computers can't) < 1549455525 877426 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: nah, while the thing after the d isn't changing, the value of the integrator doesn't change either, and when it's running backwards, the integrator runs backwards < 1549455580 537333 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1549455583 501843 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :think of it like a definite integral, integral(0 to 2)(y dx) is basically saying "x changes from 0 to 2"; so if x changes from 0 to 2 and back to 0 there's no real conceptual problem, you'll end up back where you started unless y also changes in an asymmetrical way < 1549456030 191954 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you have a whole system of multiple equations that influence each other < 1549456034 49947 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in crazy ways < 1549456047 343638 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's all continuous, this is the whole reason analog computers work < 1549456099 38513 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :changing the value of an integrator never affect anything /right now/ apart from integrators that it's the differential of (which is why Analogia requires no cycles in the differential term) < 1549456105 447326 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is... what you hope. maybe it is, but I don't know those theorems properly. < 1549456108 535194 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all it does is change the rate of change, which is something that only affects the future, not the present < 1549456154 745625 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess you can think of Analogia as a really complex machine for changing its own future evolution < 1549456160 494839 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they guarantee that they work in an open environment of 0 for certain conditions. I don't know what the conditions are, there's like a dozen different versions of the theorem < 1549456162 281866 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but any given present state is easy to understand < 1549456193 470762 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you stop thinking about it as a system of differential equations the language is much simpler (although solving the differential equations is probably the easiest way to bring a program into "closed form") < 1549456250 188377 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't need a closed form, and certainly those usually don't exist except for some very special programs < 1549456279 164979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, an optimizer would likely try to closed-form as much as possible < 1549456317 131071 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. integrating x+x dx means that the output of the integrator will be the square of the input of the integrator, you'd want to optimize that into just using x² directly < 1549456323 106845 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, and a programmer will write interesting programs, not simple linear ones where all the dee variables are t < 1549456382 501336 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1549456403 898826 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the functions can't even turn back, at least for 0 [p] -> Doc and tried feeding it a list of Docs) < 1549457409 358609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, how useful are Void-producing monad actions? < 1549457444 226840 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they may still have an effect in a monad transformer < 1549457465 196834 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ignoring laziness that means that Void values actually exist) < 1549457701 394463 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So perhaps not so useful in Haskell; you can document the intent that subsequent actions will never be performed, but it's not enforced. < 1549457722 554125 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t System.Exit.exitSuccess < 1549457723 979811 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :IO a < 1549457730 889870 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... right. < 1549457763 513942 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can think of that as having "absurd" already built in) < 1549458363 574425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so it's similar to ! in Rust, which makes sense < 1549458382 942063 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monads give sequencing so "nothing ever happens after this in sequence" is a useful thing to be able to say > 1549459209 126430 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59737 5* 03A 5* (+210) 10Created page with "[[Csub]] is a "subset" of C. ==Syntax== ==Implementation== [https://github.com/Btup/C-Subset Official compiler to C] ==Turing-completeness== [[Category:Turing-complete]] Cat..." > 1549459365 684146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59738&oldid=59737 5* 03A 5* (+250) 10 > 1549459395 529671 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59739&oldid=59738 5* 03A 5* (+640) 10 > 1549459481 955256 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59740&oldid=59739 5* 03A 5* (+100) 10/* Syntax */ < 1549459516 947349 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client > 1549459734 953754 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59741&oldid=59740 5* 03A 5* (+167) 10/* Turing-completeness */ > 1549459747 316049 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59742&oldid=59741 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10/* Hello, world! Program */ > 1549459822 193683 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59743&oldid=59742 5* 03A 5* (+25) 10 > 1549459904 2567 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59744&oldid=59743 5* 03A 5* (+73) 10 < 1549460296 407585 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549460646 815364 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, is that the github profile of A or does he just link to other peoples languages? > 1549462123 978671 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59745&oldid=59744 5* 03A 5* (-336) 10 < 1549462187 795441 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1549466366 579640 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1549468307 594788 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rffwxxvpfpxxhjbp JOIN :#esoteric > 1549468889 489708 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Superiumentarius 5* 10New user account < 1549470080 222846 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.203.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1549470784 980581 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should really learn how to properly touchtype < 1549470925 918622 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bb/First_Image_from_Mariner_4_-_GPN-2003-00060.jpg < 1549470953 223284 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ employee of Nasa hand-decoding image from Mars < 1549474452 927244 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`" < 1549474453 728813 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :246) * Received a CTCP VERSION from nyuszika7h * VERSION Microsoft IRC# 2011 64-bit (Windows 8 Beta, x64, 2GB RAM) Gregor: Windows 8 Beta? o_O A small benefit of my brief time as an intern at MS. \ 114) Oh I get it you guys just use this space to do nothing ? < 1549475216 846838 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0051682b065b7937de.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1549475512 383454 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0051682b065b7937de.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1549476091 752050 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rffwxxvpfpxxhjbp QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1549476747 723593 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nrzpapoyvozzexng JOIN :#esoteric < 1549477421 246415 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1549477421 329148 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1549477421 329228 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1549479042 595051 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00d5a98ea2a78b51e2.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1549481567 901942 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00d5a98ea2a78b51e2.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1549482770 813557 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1549484491 826537 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nrzpapoyvozzexng QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1549484783 782143 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zkelstqqzetloejq JOIN :#esoteric < 1549487005 218657 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric > 1549487183 27773 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:BradensEsolangs14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59746&oldid=59721 5* 03BradensEsolangs 5* (+107) 10 > 1549490421 72128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Cortex14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59747&oldid=59524 5* 03Cortex 5* (+28) 10/* Languages I made */ > 1549490485 404129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59748&oldid=59734 5* 03Cortex 5* (+28) 10 < 1549490768 419256 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a language that makes generating code the primary thing, rather than a special case like a preprocessor? < 1549490783 625938 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems like quite a lot of code would be better generated than handwritten, if a language made it convenient. < 1549490812 461039 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also most metaprogramming mechanisms people use, like CPP and C++ templates and so on, are quite bad. < 1549490848 651585 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ templates are ridiculously bad for what people use them for. < 1549490917 334151 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Except for the relatively limited original use. Maybe.) < 1549491117 140628 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp? < 1549491139 991358 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone knows C++ is a hot mess < 1549491263 435993 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: anyway metaprogramming is bad, fexprs are the future < 1549491264 665211 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1549491348 123434 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe? < 1549491356 217024 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lisp doesn't really have a notion of compile-time < 1549491377 419969 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or does it? I don't know. I want a language for C-level things. < 1549491387 325208 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fexprs is one of those awful things i never understand why people care bout, like shen and wisp < 1549491422 153745 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@host86-172-212-236.range86-172.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1549491450 987345 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think they're neat and wrote a long blog post about them http://mainisusuallyafunction.blogspot.com/2012/04/scheme-without-special-forms.html < 1549491456 139077 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they probably aren't practical < 1549491478 849633 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most metaprogramming schemes are victims of the esolang disease. < 1549491494 589712 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone adds some feature, like C++ templates or Haskell type classes, or whatever, for a pretty limited purpose. < 1549491515 196601 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then people start using them for other purposes, because metaprogramming is TG, even though the particular mechanism is a pretty bad one. < 1549491537 723226 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So then language designers see people use the mechanism for these things, and extend it in all sorts of ways that make it moderately easier to do things. < 1549491549 520445 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the problem is that it's hard to design a good one < 1549491553 205948 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's all quite a bad system for achieving the end goal, compared to a regular programming language. < 1549491558 631485 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rust guys are still trying, but still < 1549491565 706396 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just hard to make it work well < 1549491571 285161 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used to have so much fun writing scheme < 1549491588 796254 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can be a lot of fun writing in these accidental esolangs. < 1549491592 862766 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not actually good. < 1549491601 276697 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean, Scheme is less in this category than a lot of other things, probably.) < 1549491622 722142 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was also considering trying to make an esolang that's just meta-programming all the way down, as in, the main effect your program does is make another program of the same language but at a lower level, and all the levels are equivalent and there's one for every rational number or something < 1549491628 417465 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I couldn't yet figure out how to do it well < 1549491643 704403 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have ideas but they don't really work < 1549491651 457182 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow that code is really elegant, i like qoppa quite a lot < 1549491736 797440 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if it's not eso but actually useful though < 1549491738 555118 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks rain1 < 1549491741 965920 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :offtopic? < 1549491774 355974 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is fun how the bootstrap code is like an evolution from qoppa to scheme < 1549491818 161822 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it should have an esolangs wiki page < 1549491887 355726 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Hmm, maybe this operative thing is similar to the block thing I've been trying to figure out. < 1549491917 747274 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :block thing? > 1549491942 434018 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Kmc 5* 10New user account < 1549491954 210025 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll make one < 1549492054 502733 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's not quite an esolang but i think it's in the same general spirit < 1549492057 386493 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a tarpit of sorts < 1549492086 994789 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is "lambda tarpit" a thing < 1549492091 318980 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I declare it to be a thing < 1549492166 391053 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1549492172 463338 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlambda is the king there then < 1549492182 639653 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe combinator ones too < 1549492184 411502 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and blc < 1549492184 826503 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I think I discussed it before. < 1549492188 83690 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres a few that fit in that set < 1549492202 757256 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: probably. this channel had a lot of things going on. < 1549492204 105149 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like, what should a {} block be, as a pseudo-first-class thing. < 1549492221 20915 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "argument" to if/for/etc. < 1549492224 357610 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, that really depends on the language < 1549492235 198325 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :One answer is that those things are just macros. < 1549492243 199507 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I thought there would be a nicer answer. < 1549492255 488727 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what a block is in underload and consumer society, and what it is in postscript, < 1549492283 799880 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some languages (like perl) they're more or less anonymous closure bodies < 1549492305 493282 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is how you define functions in perl that take a block, although they don't quite work the same as the built-in stuff that takes a block, but still < 1549492313 640019 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can define a control structure like if < 1549492315 857332 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is for a language with, let's say, no runtime notion of closure. < 1549492321 81800 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you take the condition in a block, you can also define a while < 1549492325 572873 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's supposed to compile to efficient code. < 1549492348 73353 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the primary use was supposed to be things that take "the rest of the block" as an argument, which I think I've discussed here before. < 1549492354 106570 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: they still work if they're closures that are only allowed to capture the stack frame as a reference < 1549492357 562399 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can't be leaked < 1549492359 426993 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: did you know there are multiple implementations of qoppa https://github.com/timfel/qoppy < 1549492364 39204 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :those compile to efficient code < 1549492369 832278 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, more efficient than normal anyway < 1549492386 803511 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :smalltalk and ruby take the closure thing even further than perl of course < 1549492390 528001 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Yes, but I want it to compile to efficient code, not things with indirect jumps and whatever. < 1549492426 66234 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I don't know many languages that have closures implemented in terms of a stack frame pointer. < 1549492429 69772 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only D. < 1549492429 489151 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: there are no indirect jumps in this. there might be dereferences though, which is bad. < 1549492435 514905 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, it ended up in an ACM published paper?? https://www.researchgate.net/publication/306013530_Multi-level_Debugging_for_Interpreter_Developers < 1549492438 520352 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl < 1549492441 24682 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :life is funny < 1549492445 5891 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no indirect jumps because the closure type is known exactly < 1549492453 705891 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean? < 1549492461 4703 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is while/if/whatever inlined? < 1549492476 861348 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um... when or where? < 1549492487 894675 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean like in smalltalk or ruby? < 1549492501 614358 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wherever you said there are no indirect jumps. < 1549492504 697344 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl and ruby actually has built-in if and while statements that don't actually work with a closure < 1549492515 552317 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: oh, that's always true if you put this in a strongly typed compiled language < 1549492524 976550 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because "if" etc. is inlined? < 1549492526 524395 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or what? < 1549492543 144270 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you mean the if function itself < 1549492546 864768 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that would have to be inlined < 1549492559 122340 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would be because I assume a strongly typed language, and if would be a generic < 1549492563 978930 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a C++ template or rust generic < 1549492572 203853 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it must be instantiated for the specific closure type < 1549492579 209709 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case it will certainly be inlined < 1549492581 901075 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other thing is that you might have a thing take a block as an argument and change its scope. < 1549492612 941176 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have something like "using namespace foo { ... }", things inside the block would implicitly have name resolution in foo::. < 1549492619 733143 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's certainly a compile-time thing, not a closure. < 1549492628 967090 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, perl does that < 1549492663 252838 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it compiles code, each part of the code that needs it remembers the active package, the enabled warnings, and certain pragmas, from compile time < 1549492683 430728 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the relevant values either modify compilation, or are tracked somewhere in the compiled code so that the runtime can access it < 1549492698 47288 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the active package is needed when you access a global variable or sub by name without qualification < 1549492721 607166 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if $foo isn't a local and you reference $foo, then it will mean $foo in the active package, which is fixed at compile time for any mention of $foo < 1549492880 679025 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think Perl's separation between compiletime and runtime is as clear as I'd like, though maybe I can still get some ideas from it. < 1549492889 464364 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's definitely not clear < 1549492900 348266 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can run any runtime code at compile time, or compile anything at runtime < 1549492906 148127 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nested to any number of levels < 1549492913 339998 :LKoen!~LKoen@lfbn-idf2-1-273-77.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1549493101 596147 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1549493724 969833 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric > 1549493786 913728 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59749&oldid=59501 5* 03Kmc 5* (+187) 10 > 1549493796 923889 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Qoppa14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59750 5* 03Kmc 5* (+1121) 10Create page < 1549494587 392504 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :namspace template < 1549494612 122771 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do think templated namespaces would be reasonable in C++ < 1549494621 235221 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :template namespace N { ... } < 1549494621 562915 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :declared like namespace foo { .... < 1549494639 611368 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1549494697 60084 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: they would be useful in my current project since I need to be able to easily compile the same stuff with two different backends < 1549494726 446545 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :use cpp hth < 1549494739 665973 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I'm using a #define but still < 1549494766 206818 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't it be more ceeplusplussy to use templates? < 1549494795 625099 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but more ceeplusplussy is more badder < 1549495069 844972 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-150.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1549495295 518922 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1549495767 18789 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf's wrong < 1549495770 290503 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :templates all the way < 1549495790 21538 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends on the details of course < 1549495844 499886 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :SFINAE all the way < 1549495851 619446 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i,i sfinmk < 1549496884 348474 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1549496919 462083 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1549497077 693060 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1549497078 810713 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1549497091 855417 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zkelstqqzetloejq QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity