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00:59:12 <esowiki> [[WII2D]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59857&oldid=59772 * Cortex * (+15)
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02:01:06 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59858&oldid=59855 * Oerjan * (+47) Unsigned
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04:15:09 <zzo38> In Glulx, 0 is also a valid lvalue, meaning don't write the value. (Other numbers are not a valid lvalue though)
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06:27:33 <shachaf> kmc: Oddly enough, Compose < 3 generates a ♥ BLACK HEART SUIT
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16:29:09 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59859&oldid=59786 * Areallycoolusername * (+51) /* E */
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17:18:10 <int-e> Did https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/02/12/current_gps_epoch_ends/ come up here?
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17:20:08 <Taneb> That's about 30 bits for "time in seconds from epoch"
17:32:14 <oerjan> ...i don't why you'd need the week to find position, isn't it based on fractions of seconds in difference?
17:32:44 <oerjan> if the device use it to set an actual clock, that'd be a different matter.
17:33:18 <oerjan> which they probably do, since it's easy.
17:33:32 <oerjan> but still, should not affect navigation.
17:34:28 <oerjan> i suppose it'd think downloaded maps had wrong time stamps from the future.
17:39:06 <esowiki> [[EZ]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59860 * Areallycoolusername * (+1257) Created page with "[[EZ]] is an [[esoteric programming language]] made by [[User: Areallycoolusername|Areallycoolusername]]. It's the easiest language in the world. It's also made for code golf...."
17:42:30 <esowiki> [[EZ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59861&oldid=59860 * Areallycoolusername * (+57) /* Specifics */
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17:57:34 <esowiki> [[EZ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59862&oldid=59861 * Areallycoolusername * (+606) /* Implementations */
17:58:03 <esowiki> [[EZ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59863&oldid=59862 * Areallycoolusername * (-23) /* Specifics */
18:00:59 <esowiki> [[EZ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59864&oldid=59863 * Areallycoolusername * (-17) /* Implementations */
18:02:00 <esowiki> [[EZ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59865&oldid=59864 * Areallycoolusername * (+24)
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18:26:28 <zzo38> Will the BIOS and BASIC interpreters from old computers be released as open source?
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19:22:28 <orin> guess what google calendar uses 32 bit datetimes
19:22:41 <orin> so you can't set a reminder for 2060
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19:40:31 <shachaf> I can set an event for 2060.
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20:31:29 <esowiki> [[Analog Synth]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59866&oldid=58753 * Salpynx * (+72) Interpreter, use strict sigmas for ixqus symbols where possible
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20:58:47 <b_jonas> `bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.comicgenesis.com/d/20190212.html
20:58:48 <HackEso> bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.comicgenesis.com/d/20190212.html: b_jonas
21:01:45 <b_jonas> I bought an indoor-outdoor thermometer for home. Now if the wire doesn't break from it being led out a window, then I'll be able to tell the outdoor temperature without opening a window.
21:01:56 <b_jonas> It currently says 4°C outdoor.
21:02:42 <int-e> . o O ( Just get a nearby airport and use @metar )
21:02:50 <HackEso> metasepia knew the weather at your nearest airport, and also something about ducks.
21:04:41 <lambdabot> CYYZ 132000Z 25026G33KT 5SM R23/4000VP6000FT/U BLSN SCT040 BKN110 BKN250 M04/M08 A2957 RMK CU3AC2CI1 SLP024
21:06:57 <b_jonas> int-e: sure, I can already look up the weather in the internet. It says 2°C, which matches, because it's 1 or 2 kelvin warmer in the city measured near the wall of a house than at the airport measured in the way meteorologists like to measure.
21:07:09 <zzo38> Do they still not have METAR?
21:07:25 <lambdabot> CYVR 132100Z VRB02KT 15SM FEW008 FEW015 FEW070 01/M03 A2967 RMK CU1SC1AC1 SC TR AC TR SLP050
21:08:32 <lambdabot> LHBP 132100Z 22006KT 8000 NSC 02/02 Q1033 NOSIG
21:08:55 <j4cbo> METAR encoding (and aviation weather in general) is the stupidest thing
21:09:23 <j4cbo> all designed back in the telex days to fit as much information as possible into as few characters as possible
21:09:29 <b_jonas> the varying units of measure? nobody could get the americans to use it in any other way
21:09:56 <j4cbo> winds aloft forecasts encode speeds above 99 by adding 50 to the heading section
21:09:59 <b_jonas> j4cbo: eh no, it's not _that_ compressed, and at least this way it's somewhat parseable. my only big complaint is that it doesn't have a full date.
21:10:12 <j4cbo> and other crazy stuff like that
21:10:30 <j4cbo> I mean I appreciate it in a #esoteric sort of way :P
21:11:09 <b_jonas> j4cbo: oh, I didn't know they did that with winds
21:11:46 <j4cbo> only in winds/temps aloft forecasts
21:12:31 <b_jonas> not that I'd be able to test that, because winds with speed 100 knots or higher are very rare here
21:12:57 <b_jonas> living in a basin with no strong winds and no strong earthquakes has some advantages
21:15:56 <j4cbo> looks like they just add a digit for metars
21:16:51 <b_jonas> j4cbo: um... how does that decode?
21:16:59 <b_jonas> 280 degrees heading, but then what?
21:17:15 <j4cbo> 100 knots with gusts to 117
21:19:14 <lambdabot> KOAK 132053Z 14017KT 8SM -RA BKN027 OVC032 14/12 A2955 RMK AO2 SLP007 P0005 60038 T01390117 58024
21:20:11 <shachaf> metar isn't particularly good at either shortness or human-readability, but it's OK for the combination.
21:20:32 <shachaf> Also I sometimes pretend to understand it but mostly I just look at the temperature.
21:21:19 <lambdabot> KMSO 132118Z 33006KT 1 1/4SM -SN BKN018 OVC041 01/M03 A2944 RMK AO2 P0001 T00061028
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21:22:10 <HackEso> Missoula International Airport (MSO, KMSO)
21:22:42 <ais523> on the subject of airports, EGBB has a big "Hello world" sign above its main entrance
21:22:47 <lambdabot> EGBB 132050Z 14004KT CAVOK 04/03 Q1030
21:22:50 <HackEso> lambdabot: @@ @@ (@where weather) CYUL ENVA ESSB KOAK PAMR
21:23:05 <shachaf> lambdabot: @@ @@ (@where weather) CYUL ENVA ESSB KOAK PAMR
21:23:07 <lambdabot> CYUL 132100Z CCA 22016G22KT 15SM DRSN FEW040 SCT065 OVC080 M00/M05 A2950 RMK CF1SC3AC5 CF TR SLP993 \ ENVA 132120Z 09008KT 8000 BKN043 01/00 Q1013 RMK WIND 670FT 18009KT \ ESSB 132050Z 31007KT
21:23:07 <lambdabot> CAVOK 05/M01 Q1019 \ KOAK 132053Z 14017KT 8SM -RA BKN027 OVC032 14/12 A2955 RMK AO2 SLP007 P0005 60038 T01390117 58024 \ PAMR 132053Z VRB05KT 10SM SCT041 BKN090 M07/M14 A2984 RMK AO2 SLP106 I3001
21:23:15 <shachaf> Maybe that was a good idea.
21:23:51 <ais523> apparently there's a surprising lack of weather in Birmingham at the moment
21:26:30 <ais523> when's the last time we had a proper botloop in here?
21:26:40 <ais523> several years ago, they used to happen pretty much all the time
21:26:52 <ais523> but then the bot operators got wise and started adding protections against them
21:27:10 <shachaf> isn't "bot loop" redundant hth
21:27:48 <ais523> what's the redundant part? not the "loop", because bots can do things that aren't loops, so it must be the "bot"
21:27:58 <ais523> it doesn't seem impossible that the loop could involve a human, though
21:29:23 <shachaf> By the way, I've taken to using "nonterminates" as a verb, though it's a bit awkward.
21:29:25 <int-e> > fix (error . ("loop" ++"))
21:29:26 <lambdabot> lexical error in string/character literal at end of input
21:29:31 <int-e> > fix (error . ("loop" ++))
21:29:32 <shachaf> Is there something else I should say?
21:29:32 <lambdabot> "*Exception: loop*Exception: loop*Exception: loop*Exception: loop*Exception:...
21:30:12 <ais523> why does the output of fix error end up in quotes?
21:30:28 <shachaf> The '"' is printed because it's showing a string, before the error thunk is forced.
21:30:31 <int-e> Haskell has structured bottoms. They probably come from all the sitting around (it's lazy).
21:30:43 <ais523> > (error "test") : String
21:30:45 <lambdabot> • Data constructor not in scope: String :: [a]
21:30:53 <ais523> > (error "test") : [Char]
21:30:55 <lambdabot> • Data constructor not in scope: Char
21:31:04 <ais523> > (error "test") :: [Char]
21:32:05 <ais523> the output of «"*Exception: *Exception:» … confused me because I thought it was stringifying the exceptions somehow
21:32:25 <ais523> but it isn't, it's trying to print a string and then double-faulting repeatedly
21:32:35 <shachaf> This confused me when I first saw it too.
21:32:36 <ais523> now I wonder why Haskell doesn't have protection against double faults
21:32:54 <kmc> > undefined :: String
21:32:55 <shachaf> triple faults should reboot the machine lambdabot is on
21:33:20 <kmc> > undefined :: ()
21:33:30 <ais523> shachaf: I need to use that idea next time I write a non-serious non-constrained esolang
21:33:56 <shachaf> x86 is a p. serious esolang
21:34:31 <ais523> Microsoft had a serious competitive advantage for a whlie by being the first people to figure out that intentional triple-faults were useful as a way to get from protected mode back into real mode
21:34:40 <int-e> Hey, triple faults are useful, they get you out of protected mode!
21:35:28 <ais523> IBM's solution to that problem was pretty esoteric (it sent a command to the keyboard controller to get it to send a reboot input to the motherboard)
21:35:58 <shachaf> I like the way Windows used illegal instructions to switch to kernel mode back in the day.
21:36:05 <int-e> Do we still have an A20 gate?
21:36:59 <b_jonas> ais532: yeah, lambdabot is careful, putting some prefix to its message contents often; I can't use jevalbot for a loop because I wrote it so that would be cheating; that leaves fungot and lambdabot, and I don't think it's possible to loop the two of them
21:36:59 <fungot`> b_jonas: can anyone help me with
21:37:15 <b_jonas> s/lambdabot is/HackEso is/
21:37:19 <fungot`> shachaf: what is the business? how are modifications synchronized between agents? :)
21:37:39 <b_jonas> also it's possible that some loops happen entirely in private messages
21:37:55 <b_jonas> hmm, let me check if perlbot is willing to private message anyone these days
21:38:25 <int-e> uh does lambdabot have to ignore fungot as well...
21:38:26 <fungot`> int-e: you could also sell them as " plain svg" instead of forty-two.
21:38:41 <b_jonas> hmm no, I think buubot3 doesn't have that anymore
21:38:47 <b_jonas> that used to be in buubot1 or buubot2 or something
21:38:55 <zzo38> If the message uses NOTICE then that can also avoid it presumably
21:39:29 <int-e> zzo38: AFAIUI mirc destroyed NOTICE.
21:39:47 <int-e> by deciding to produce popups for them.
21:40:15 <b_jonas> ais523: you mean in 80286?
21:40:30 <int-e> even in irssi notices to channels tend to look ugly.
21:40:44 <ais523> int-e: I looked it up; apparently the A20 gate was part of the motherboard until the 486, at which point it became part of the processor controlled via a processor pin; then with Nehalem, it was changed to a hardware feature that was controlled over a bus rather than via a pin; then with Haswell it was removed entirely
21:40:51 <int-e> b_jonas: yes, that was for 80286
21:41:00 <ais523> perhaps DOSbox has an ability to emulate it in software
21:41:31 <int-e> emulating the A20 gate with paging sounds trivial.
21:42:12 <zzo38> It is not your fault that your users are using a IRC client that does not work properly.
21:42:21 <int-e> ais523: thanks. I just had not checked on the fate of the A20 gate in the past 5 or so years.
21:42:35 <b_jonas> int-e: it is, and back before x86_64, all the programs that emulated real mode programs with the cpu's v86 feature did use paging that way
21:42:40 <ais523> zzo38: even things that aren't your fault have to be worked around sometimes :-(
21:42:54 <b_jonas> x86_64 took away that ability because the speed of emulating real mode no longer matters
21:43:05 <int-e> zzo38: unfortunately, suffering for the mistakes of others is the norm rather than the exception.
21:43:28 <b_jonas> so we just emulate DOS all in software because all the remaining real mode DOS games run fast enough that way, every DOS game that needs more performance switches to protected mode anyway
21:44:37 <zzo38> Some people (including myself) still write real mode DOS programs, although often it is designed so that it can work on DOSBOX anyways (except 8088MPH)
21:44:47 <b_jonas> ais523: at least bots tend to be pretty consistent in recognizing prefixes or invocations only at the very start of the line, so the workaround of putting a space or something at the start of your message to escape the potential invocation seem to be a good alternative
21:45:32 <b_jonas> zzo38: sure, you can do it, it's just that you don't mind if the emulation is slowed down a bit, because if you wanted a high performance program, you wouldn't use real mode anyway
21:46:01 <ais523> b_jonas: fungot recognises its name anywhere
21:46:01 <fungot`> ais523: i looked at were inadequate. the implementation of the fingerprint handling, all of which have emacs, which i think should appear real soon now
21:46:17 <ais523> b_jonas: it's not obvious that real mode has bad performance
21:46:21 <b_jonas> that's why I wondered if it could be looped with a bot
21:46:33 <b_jonas> one that generally answers fungot's reply
21:46:38 <ais523> especially in unreal mode (which is where you switch to protected mode to change the memory architecture from segmented to flat, then switch back)
21:47:55 <b_jonas> HackEso doesn't respond to its name, and I don't think lambdabot does either
21:48:27 <b_jonas> but it needs the at sign, which you won't get often from fungot
21:48:27 <fungot`> b_jonas: yes, but you should at least have a chunk of memory and gc interfered with the benchmarks
21:48:31 <b_jonas> and both are limited to one line of answer
21:48:57 <shachaf> Is there a canonical way to generate some number of characters uniformly from an alphabet given a seed (like the output of a hash function)?
21:49:20 <b_jonas> @run var "`echo BBdNkmBhaMAA"
21:49:28 <b_jonas> right, lambdabot puts a space
21:49:36 <b_jonas> so only fungot will listen to it
21:49:36 <fungot`> b_jonas: i just hit the damn thing to clear the record for keeping up a stream of the elements
21:50:43 <shachaf> It's still possible to loop two lambdabots together as far as I know.
21:51:18 <b_jonas> how do you ask my learned and honorable friend to evaluate underload?
21:51:36 <ais523> you probably did it correctly, that progroduces no output though
21:52:09 <fungot`> shachaf: write a mode for that in the forked side never returns?
21:52:11 <HackEso> fungot is our beloved channel mascot and voice of reason.
21:52:40 <ais523> ^ul ((^ul )SaS(:^)S):^
21:52:53 <rain1> ^ul ((^ul )SaS(:^)S):^
21:53:08 <ais523> ^ul ((`echo ^ul )SaS(:^)S):^
21:53:08 <fungot`> `echo ^ul ((`echo ^ul )SaS(:^)S):^
21:53:08 <HackEso> ^ul ((`echo ^ul )SaS(:^)S):^
21:53:17 <ais523> fungot doesn't listen to hackeso, though
21:53:17 <fungot`> ais523: the semantics of a loop return expression are not quite right, since ( iirc), 1.5 ( fnord)
21:53:22 <ais523> so the loop won't continue
21:53:31 <b_jonas> ^ul (`echo ^ul (VFmvbAmpx0T0)S)S
21:53:40 <ais523> also, that's a surprisingly relevant comment it just made
21:53:40 <b_jonas> that's probably because HackEso puts a prefix
21:54:10 <b_jonas> and my honorable and learned friend, correctly, doesn't listen when there's a prefix before the hat
21:54:36 <zzo38> What is the shortest way to implement the function (x&&y?1:0) in Glulx?
21:54:50 <ais523> I don't know what Glulx is
21:55:18 <zzo38> ais523: https://www.eblong.com/zarf/glulx/glulx-spec.html
21:56:14 <b_jonas> @run var "^ul (89U+Z6Ma7Mvi)"
21:56:28 <ais523> zzo38: is there any restriction on how large a and b can be?
21:56:46 <b_jonas> what other bot we have that we could loop then?
21:56:53 <ais523> if they're limited to 16 bits, it's probably mul followed by jz
21:57:04 <zzo38> ais523: Up to 32-bits, signed.
21:57:10 <ais523> if they could use 32 bits, I can't see a shorter way than using two jumps
21:57:36 <HackEso> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ .
21:58:25 <zzo38> I do know that (x?0:1) is implemented using "ushiftr 1,x,$" (due to how Glulx bit shifts work, this will always work)
21:58:46 <b_jonas> EgoBot is still in there? hmm
21:59:18 <HackEso> metasepia knew the weather at your nearest airport, and also something about ducks.
22:00:54 <zzo38> (Fortunately the function (x&&y?1:0) is rarely needed, because it can usually be optimized out when converting from OASYS.)
22:00:56 <ais523> thutubot had a bug that caused it to repeat everything that lambdabot said
22:01:06 <ais523> so we stopped taking it into this channel when lambdabot got widely used here
22:01:47 <ais523> where are you getting those random strings from? they don't look like keyboard mashing
22:02:08 <b_jonas> ais523: random generator, base64 but with the two extra characters being + and -
22:03:10 <ais523> [CTCP] Received CTCP-PING reply from ais523: 27 seconds.
22:03:17 <b_jonas> ``` openssl rand -base64 10 | perl -ne 'y,/,-,;/(.{12})/ and print$1' # this basically, but I pipe it to xclip
22:03:57 <b_jonas> what does lambdabot listen to? prefix at or question mark or ":t" right?
22:04:00 <lambdabot> • Perhaps you meant ‘for’ (imported from Data.Traversable)
22:04:36 <ais523> b_jonas: I think it's @ or ? or : or >
22:04:50 <ais523> but not all strings starting with those are valid commands
22:05:00 <b_jonas> ais523: but it accepts its name before that
22:05:05 <b_jonas> which makes it much easier
22:05:14 <b_jonas> because you could perhaps make other bots say its name
22:11:03 <b_jonas> and even if I were to use jevalbot, which I shouldn't, I don't think something like [ 10$,:'fungot' would loop
22:11:03 <fungot`> b_jonas: why would that be irrelavent here it is with undefined order.
22:11:59 <b_jonas> fungot: ^ul (vhcfvGaClerQ)S
22:11:59 <fungot`> b_jonas: neither one do i learn lambda calculus? i think its hansen though, i don't
22:12:29 <b_jonas> my honorable and learned friend won't recognize a hat command with its name before it
22:12:40 <fizzie> FWIW, I've been thinking of reclaiming the ! prefix for esowiki (and maybe renaming it to "esolangs") if I stick the BF Joust commands on it, because conventionally those have started with !. Probably not exclusively, but at least !bfjoust and !bftest (provisional name) and *potentially* !help. Because it isn't likely EgoBot is going to come back, and that thing has somewhat of a semi-official status.
22:13:17 <fizzie> Oh, fungot` still has a tick.
22:13:18 <fungot`> fizzie: fnord you're in israel though). :) i second jensa's question, though. i can't currently spout something like...
22:13:26 -!- fungot` has changed nick to fungot.
22:13:33 <ais523> fizzie: would those control zemhill or egojoust?
22:13:42 <b_jonas> fungot: ^ul (gbnc-HivUrYQ)S
22:13:42 <fungot> b_jonas: ' wuss' is pretty weird :)
22:13:51 <b_jonas> he won't work with the prefix
22:14:00 <b_jonas> he won't run the underload command
22:14:17 <int-e> lambdabot: @help run
22:14:17 <lambdabot> run <expr>. You have Haskell, 3 seconds and no IO. Go nuts!
22:14:34 <ais523> also, bf joust is mostly dead nowadays, I think it's finally gotten close to solved (I've been wrong about this in the past, but that doesn't necessarily mean I'm wrong this time)
22:14:39 <j4cbo> triple faults are out, CATERR# is in
22:15:13 <fizzie> ais523: They'd control something I'd put under (probably) https://esolangs.org/bfjoust or https://bfjoust.esolangs.org/ that would get all of the state and history from zemhill (which I would retire).
22:16:13 <b_jonas> fizzie: why don't you just call it zemhill then?
22:16:13 <zemhill_______> ais523: I do !zjoust; see http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for more information.
22:16:38 <fizzie> And it's fine if it's dead, less pressure for me to finish the migration. I'd just sort of like to stop running "zemhill"; not that it has any maintenance needs to speak of, just for general principles.
22:16:38 <b_jonas> or does someone else has that name?
22:17:10 <fizzie> No, it's just called zemhill because it was hosted in a zem.fi URL, if I migrate it to be "officially" under esolangs.org the name no longer fits so much.
22:17:46 <fizzie> I guess if people feel it should still be called zemhill, that's fine. I can retain the zjoust/ztest commands too. Don't really have any preference one way or another.
22:18:07 <fizzie> Also zemhill collects underscores the same way others collect... uh, some collectable thing.
22:19:08 <ais523> now I'm wondering how you IV-optimise underscores for competitive battling
22:19:18 <b_jonas> although then it shouldn't have more than six in its nick, it would have to store them in that computer terminal thingy
22:19:19 <fizzie> (It's using the "Cinch" Ruby IRC bot framework, I'm blaming that for the nick behaviour.)
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22:25:54 <b_jonas> lambdabot and perlbot could probably be looped in private message
22:26:26 <b_jonas> because perlbot prints anything in private message, and also accepts commands with a preceding space
22:27:47 <b_jonas> but it's hard to *start* such a bot loop
22:28:18 <b_jonas> you'd need to do it when one of the bots are disconnected, predicting when it will reconnect, taking its nick temporarily, I think
22:29:36 <b_jonas> it could be easier if we found a channel they share
22:31:20 <b_jonas> lambdabot plus geordi might be doable too. do we know a channel those too share?
22:32:04 <b_jonas> that won't work, geordi cares about the spaces
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23:48:30 <shachaf> kmc: do you like how the mill has two instruction pointers, one going forward and one going backward
23:48:41 <shachaf> because they divide the instruction stream into two parts and jump into the middle
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