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00:15:32 <esowiki> [[Bitch]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59963&oldid=59931 * Helen * (+2768) /* Turing-completeness */ Continuation of [[User:A]]'s attempt at proving Turing-completeness
00:18:50 <esowiki> [[Bitch]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59964&oldid=59963 * Helen * (-134) /* Implementation */ Added v4.3 jar
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03:02:01 <zzo38> In Glulx, the Huffman tree is stored in a inefficient way, which is nine bytes per branch node, two bytes per node to emit a single character, and there are other nodes too
03:23:50 <HackEso> is absorbed. Store in a \ high flavors of the meat mixture, and cover with a size of the \ egg mixture. Serve the sugar canned cheese with salt and pepper. Place \ the flour and cornstarch in a large bowl. Stir the \ beef into the center cups. Bake at high heat and stir over soup and replace 3 \ tablespoons of the bowl. Let cool for at least 4 minutes. Sprinkle the beans, then \ stirring frequently. When the meat is dissolved. Store to medium-sid
03:35:10 <esowiki> [[Quine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59965&oldid=57437 * Orby * (+1665)
03:37:31 <orbitaldecay> Maybe an algorithm for developing quines is obvious, but I just figured it out :)
03:44:29 <esowiki> [[Quine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59966&oldid=59965 * Orby * (+52)
03:46:24 <esowiki> [[Quine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59967&oldid=59966 * Orby * (+1) Fixing minor typo
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03:57:18 <esowiki> [[Quine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59968&oldid=59967 * Orby * (+209)
04:06:10 <oerjan> <Taneb> wob_jonas: are there other languages with a unique number with the corresponding property? <-- hm norwegian seems to be, 1 = "ett" (or "en", "ei" if gendered) is the only one i can find
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05:32:46 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Lovecraftianmadness * New user account
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05:37:10 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59969&oldid=59912 * Lovecraftianmadness * (+382) /* Introductions */
05:40:36 <esowiki> [[Talk:Computational class]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59970&oldid=23616 * Lovecraftianmadness * (+234)
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08:11:39 <esowiki> [[Talk:Computational class]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59971&oldid=59970 * Ais523 * (+253) it's a partial preorder
08:12:14 <esowiki> [[Talk:Computational class]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59972&oldid=59971 * Ais523 * (+21) fix {{unsigned}}
08:13:11 <esowiki> [[Computational class]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59973&oldid=35522 * Ais523 * (+6) partial preorder, not partial order
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10:00:43 <b_jonas> Taneb: and http://www.omniglot.com/language/numbers/index.htm may be a starting point for finding out more
10:01:29 <b_jonas> `pbflist https://pbfcomics.com/comics/grandpas-couch-hot-paper-comics/
10:01:30 <HackEso> pbflist https://pbfcomics.com/comics/grandpas-couch-hot-paper-comics/: shachaf Sgeo quintopia ion b_jonas Cale
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11:50:39 <esowiki> [[Assembly language]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59974 * A * (+3001) Created page with "[[Assembly language]] is a minimal Harvard-architectured conputer. It has all the basic features of a modern computer. There is an array with indexes from 00 to FF. Index 00..."
11:50:58 <esowiki> [[Assembly language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59975&oldid=59974 * A * (+13) /* Commands */
11:55:10 <esowiki> [[Assembly language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59976&oldid=59975 * A * (+18) /* Machine code interpreter */
11:55:55 <esowiki> [[Assembly language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59977&oldid=59976 * A * (+25)
11:57:44 <esowiki> [[Assembly language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59978&oldid=59977 * A * (+184) Add specification.
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12:08:46 <esowiki> [[Bitch]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59979&oldid=59964 * A * (-82) Not ''close'', some operations are implemented below.
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12:18:36 <esowiki> [[Bitch]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59980&oldid=59979 * A * (+338) Multiplication/Division idea. I don't know if this can be implemented.
12:22:32 <esowiki> [[User:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59981&oldid=59874 * A * (-1069) Blanked the page
12:23:11 <esowiki> [[User:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59982&oldid=59981 * A * (+25) Redirected page to [[User talk:A]]
12:23:37 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59983&oldid=59875 * A * (+20) Redirected page to [[User:A]]
12:41:53 <esowiki> [[Bitch]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59984&oldid=59980 * A * (-125) /* Attempt by User:A */
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12:59:12 <APic> Celebrate Chaoflux!
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13:41:58 <esowiki> [[Assembly language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59985&oldid=59978 * A * (+180)
13:45:11 <esowiki> [[Assembly language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59986&oldid=59985 * A * (+5) /* Components (Very trivial) */
13:45:51 <esowiki> [[Assembly language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59987&oldid=59986 * A * (+53)
13:46:48 <esowiki> [[Assembly language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59988&oldid=59987 * A * (-123) /* Machine code interpreter */
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14:14:29 <esowiki> [[Assembly language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59989&oldid=59988 * A * (+302)
14:16:01 <esowiki> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59990&oldid=59681 * A * (+305) /* asdf */
14:19:10 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59991&oldid=59733 * A * (+154) /* AsciiDots */
14:41:02 <esowiki> [[Assembly language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59992&oldid=59989 * A * (+192) /* Examples */
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15:51:22 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59993&oldid=59983 * Ais523 * (-20) rm #REDIRECT from user talk page; the user talk page has a technical status in that it's needed to send people messages, and redirecting it breaks that
15:57:40 <HackEso> olist 1156: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
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16:31:00 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Lanmonster * New user account
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16:36:06 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59994&oldid=59969 * Lanmonster * (+186) /* Introductions */
16:59:19 <esowiki> [[HQ9+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59995&oldid=56977 * Lanmonster * (+147) /* Implementation */
17:08:44 <esowiki> [[Chimera]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59996&oldid=53137 * Lanmonster * (+1) /* Object Expansion */
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17:18:24 <esowiki> [[Shishkirism]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59997&oldid=59902 * Kamish * (+11599)
17:19:21 <esowiki> [[Shishkirism]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59998&oldid=59997 * Kamish * (+5)
17:19:34 <esowiki> [[Shishkirism]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59999&oldid=59998 * Kamish * (+5)
17:20:28 <esowiki> [[Shishkirism]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60000&oldid=59999 * Kamish * (-5)
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17:50:14 <int-e> . o O ( Oots! is a Ook! clone designed to annoy 99% of the #esoteric denizens... )
18:00:15 <shachaf> There aren't even 100 people in this channel
18:01:37 <b_jonas> shachaf: people can read the log file
18:01:55 <b_jonas> plus not all denizens are connected all the time
18:02:10 <b_jonas> I like Ook! but only for historical nostalgic reasons
18:02:16 <b_jonas> it's one of the earlier esolangs I've met
18:02:36 <b_jonas> and yes, that does cause me a bit of cognitive dissonance
18:08:19 <int-e> shachaf: 1 down, 81 to go ;-)
18:09:10 <int-e> And Ook! gave us Piet, in a way.
18:10:09 <int-e> Brainfuck should also be seen in its historical perspective. Also I think it's the first esoteric programming language I've ever encountered? Or was INTERCAL first?
18:11:15 <int-e> shachaf: I expect oerjan to complain about the "a". :)
18:29:18 <int-e> Because it's a consonant, but an vowel. Or how did that rule work again?
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19:07:04 <FireFly> consonant/vowel sound, rather than letter
19:10:04 <int-e> I was being rhetorical. Or perhaps facetious.
19:10:44 <HackEso> FireFly was a short-running but well-loved sci-fi TV series released in 2003, starring Nathan Fillion and directed and written by Joss Whedon.
19:12:30 <FireFly> I forget the fancy command to list contributors to a command, hmm
19:12:59 <HackEso> 2854:2013-05-05 <Tanëa> learn FireFly was a short-running but well-loved sci-fi TV series released in 2003, starring Nathan Fillion and directed and written by Joss Whedon.
19:13:14 <HackEso> Tanea plays Minecrafs, Dware Fortresr, and lives in Cambridgd.
19:13:34 <HackEso> Why would there be a Tanec, that's ridiculous!
19:14:11 <HackEso> int-e är inte svensk. Hen kommer att spränga solen. Hen står för sig själv. Hen gillar inte färger, men han gillar dissonans. Er hat ein Hipster-Spiel gekauft.
19:14:49 <FireFly> Please don't blow up the sun
19:15:07 <int-e> I forgot the context for that. Again.
19:15:18 <HackEso> https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/log/tip/wisdom/int-e
19:16:19 <int-e> ah, escalation. https://esolangs.org/logs/2016-03-14.html#lgn
19:18:17 <kmc> Hipster-Spiel
19:18:43 <int-e> I think that was Braid.
19:18:54 <Taneb> int-e: iirc Tanea was me when someone incremented me
19:18:56 <kmc> Braid is too good
19:18:57 <int-e> Or possibly Stephen's Sausage Roll.
19:19:14 <FireFly> I don't think it was Braid because I vaguely recall that conversation, and I don't think it was a game I'd heard of or played :p
19:19:44 <int-e> SSR it is then. Which is another game I've never finished
19:19:57 <FireFly> oh I'm good at not finishing games
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19:20:12 <int-e> I've finally completed all tasks in TIS-100.
19:20:59 <fizzie> I think I'm missing one of the second chunk of them? Was there a second chunk?
19:21:11 <FireFly> Oh, there was, and I didn't really look at those at all
19:21:40 <FireFly> because when the second batch of levels were released, I had kind of gotten past the initial excitement burst
19:21:50 <int-e> FireFly: there was the TIS-net chunk, yes
19:22:00 <FireFly> hmm, I also need to finish the last bits of Exapunks at some point
19:22:09 <int-e> and I was missing 4 of those until yesterday
19:22:28 <int-e> because... at some point it got tedious.
19:24:19 <fizzie> I never bought SHENZHEN I/O though.
19:25:00 <int-e> Whereas SSR got hard at the point where puzzles became about strategically loosing your fork.
19:26:44 <int-e> SHENZHEN I/O also has a second level set... I'm stuck on the clock because apparently the logic does not fit nicely into one or two of the programmable circuits.
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19:28:59 <int-e> And there's Infinifactory which has 4 level sets, and I thought the tasks in the 4th were just too big.
19:30:31 <fizzie> I didn't even hear about Exapunks, Opus Magnum was the last game I had heard of.
19:31:23 <int-e> Infinifactory also has quite a different flavour since you're not writing any code.
19:31:41 <FireFly> Exapunks has a pretty neat cyberpunk-esque setting to it
19:32:18 <int-e> Otoh the Human Resource Machine was easy. I have not bought Opus Magnum, and Exapunks sounds too time intensive (and I'm saying that having sunk days into those other games)
19:32:48 <int-e> What else was there... SpaceChem. Never got very far.
19:33:15 <FireFly> I got Exapunks last year, but intentionally delayed getting it til I had a two-week vacation, so I could at least spend some of the obligatory intensive addiction/focus on it on the train
19:33:30 <kmc> yay trains
19:33:35 <FireFly> I never really liked SpaceChem much for whatever reason
19:33:45 <int-e> Great, a train of thought!
19:33:51 <FireFly> yay trains indeed, that reminds me that I need to order a new interrail pass
19:33:59 <kmc> TIS-100 went from easy to very hard quickly
19:34:02 <int-e> spacechem exhibited a nasty lack of symmetry quite soon
19:34:19 <shachaf> int-e: SSI should finish SSR
19:35:07 <FireFly> b_jonas: means of transport that works reasonably well in Europe
19:35:23 <b_jonas> FireFly: yeah, I live there
19:35:35 <int-e> I'd like to understand how the cauldrons in Recursed really work.
19:35:36 <b_jonas> I even ventured to the parts of Europe where trains work better than here
19:35:52 <shachaf> i,i Er hat ein Hipster-Spiel geschrieben.
19:36:12 <shachaf> int-e: Oh, I remember Recursed. That's Ein Hipster-Spiel
19:36:20 <FireFly> b_jonas: hehe, Sweden's trains aren't the best either
19:37:02 <shachaf> Recursed was mostly on the easy/slow side but it had some neat levels.
19:37:04 <b_jonas> FireFly: I think I mentioned that that's where I first sat on a two-storey train
19:37:18 <int-e> . o O ( That's a rare moment of clarity... most of the time, shachaf doesn't notice he's a mess. )
19:37:34 <b_jonas> also they have some kind of a tricky system where there's multiple types of transport trains, with different tickets for them
19:37:42 <b_jonas> I didn't really follow how that works
19:37:51 <int-e> shachaf: Did you play the two DLC level sets and did you get all the diamonds?
19:38:08 <shachaf> I got some of the diamonds and some of the DLC
19:38:08 <int-e> (and rubies, if you've seen those)
19:38:13 <shachaf> Or maybe all the diamonds? I don't remember.
19:39:26 <shachaf> I do remember the cauldrons being complicated.
19:40:14 <int-e> I agree that the main Recursed levels are not too hard, though the logistics can get quite tricky. But I do lack a proper mental model for those cauldrons, so I'm kind of lost in the final part of the last DLC set.
19:41:11 <b_jonas> here it's simple. we only have three types of passenger trains: normal trains, metro, and HÉV. metro and HÉV are suburban trains that run on tracks separated from normal trains, there's no toilet on them, and if they have multiple carriages then you can't pass between them without getting off, and they're ran by BKV so you have to buy tickets from them. metro, in addition, doesn't have road crossings.
19:41:22 <shachaf> b_jonas: take it to #trains hth
19:41:59 <b_jonas> shachaf: I think it's #openttd on oftc
19:42:38 <shachaf> Are you talking about OpenTTD? I thought you were talking about trains.
19:42:54 <b_jonas> I was talking about trains
19:43:03 <shachaf> Then why is #trains not the right channel?
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19:48:06 <kmc> https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/52326956_808073166219023_5828373343404818432_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=25f5c7263ac39fa5c8f01aa83b38db63&oe=5CEA6B1C
19:48:11 <kmc> this seems vaguely #esoteric somehow
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20:05:09 <orin> int-e: I still haven't beaten most of the cauldron levels
20:05:27 <orin> and I'm too proud to look at the guides
20:07:30 <orin> int-e: my understanding is that a cauldron forms a link to a room in a spefic state incl objects in it
20:08:10 <shachaf> kmc: "template<class ...Ts> void ellipsis(Ts......);"
20:08:38 <shachaf> C++ varargs followed by C varargs
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20:09:05 <kmc> agree to disagree
20:09:46 <shachaf> perhaps the problem is that you're viewing c++ as a serious language rather than as a joke hth
20:10:13 <kmc> a joke that went too far
20:10:39 <kmc> is there an esolang wiki article about C++
20:11:47 <b_jonas> kmc: no. we try not to start on the slippery slope where we eventually write articles about every non-eso language.
20:12:11 <shachaf> what's the slippery slope here
20:12:19 <shachaf> write an article about C++ and then stop
20:12:38 <b_jonas> so we don't write articles about perl, php, ruby, C, C++, fortran, java, C#, javascript, ...
20:13:22 <shachaf> among all those languages only one is C++
20:14:47 <b_jonas> shachaf: also mediawiki doesn't allow us to put pluses in the language name
20:15:06 <b_jonas> so C, C++, C# would have to share an article
20:15:25 <b_jonas> so of those languages, actually three of them is C++ as far as mediawiki understands
20:15:47 <lambdabot> kmc says: I enjoy it when people write "C/C++" on their resume as if it were one language... so "F#/FORTRAN/Forth", "Perl/Python/Pascal", "Ruby/REBOL/R"
20:27:06 <orin> PERL/PHP/PL/I////
20:27:21 <galaxie> How plausible would it be to use genetic algorithms to discover source code in esolangs that follow some specification, like printing digits 1 to 10 or outputting hello world?
20:27:45 <orin> PERL is the Practical Extration and Reporting Language
20:28:20 <b_jonas> orin: I think it goes Perl/Python/Ruby/PHP, and you shouldn't do all four, but any three is acceptible. PL/I is sort of related, but pretty old.
20:28:39 <b_jonas> galaxie: people tried that for malbolge
20:29:01 <b_jonas> dunno, find it on the internet
20:29:04 <b_jonas> I don't recall the details
20:29:40 <orin> honestly awhile ago I took a serious look at PL/I and was annoyed that more languages didn't follow it
20:29:58 <galaxie> I was thinking of a less difficult language to try this with though, so I guess the results would be better if I tried it with some other esolang?
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20:39:11 <galaxie> b_jonas: This looks promising, albeit not necessarily for my idea: http://stoke.stanford.edu/
20:39:29 <orin> I don't understand how so many old languages had a
20:39:57 <orin> DO i = 1 TO length
20:40:08 <b_jonas> sure, that's Fortran's influence
20:40:12 <orin> statement but C and so on don't
20:40:42 <orin> the for( idiom requires you to give the loop variable 3 times
20:42:02 <b_jonas> orin: there are macros around that, and in C++ you could even do that with the range-for and a library function range. but people are reluctant to do either of that, mostly because we all remember that our prophets K&R have specifically said that the for (i = 0; i < 10; i++) is the Right Way to write an arithmetic loop.
20:43:51 <galaxie> b_jonas: Here's what I was looking for: https://github.com/primaryobjects/AI-Programmer/
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20:45:44 <orin> also C has way too many precedence levels, and languages taking after C inherit them and sometimes add more,
20:46:39 <b_jonas> orin: the too many precedence levels is a good thing. the questionable thing is that & has a lower precedence than ==, but at this point it's languages that don't do that, like rust, that confuse me
20:47:02 <b_jonas> again because K&R have decreed that & has the lower precedence level
20:48:01 <orin> no I think there should be like 5 precedence levels at most
20:48:30 <b_jonas> haven't you ever programmed BASIC and had to write redundant parenthesis?
20:48:42 <orin> or, and, =, +, *
20:48:44 <b_jonas> or even pascal or metafont or whatever
20:48:59 <b_jonas> fewer precedence levels is the wrong goal
20:49:11 <orin> bitwise | at same level of +, bitwise & at same level as *
20:49:29 <orin> because those shouldn't be mixed without parens anyway
20:53:11 <orin> like, I think the most complex statement you should make without parens would be something like
20:54:24 <orin> if x * 2 + 1 > y and a_flag or b_flag then
20:55:37 <orin> in C thie equivalent would be
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20:58:23 <orin> if ( R = x * 2 + 1 << 1 > 4 == y & a | b && A || B )
20:58:45 <orin> or something, I'm probably missing a couple levels
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21:00:40 <orin> some languages do away with precedence entirely, I think that's going too far, but I think the number of levels should be far fewer
21:01:52 <orin> and you could fix some of the need for parentheses by having a few more operators
21:10:12 <kmc> I saw a language with horizontal whitespace for precedence
21:10:18 <kmc> ostensibly non esoteric
21:10:19 <orin> for example bitwise ~& and logical nand
21:10:27 <kmc> so 2+3 * 4 is (2+3)*4
21:10:36 <kmc> but 2 + 3*4 is 2+(3*4)
21:10:51 <kmc> in Rust, boolean and bitwise negation are both ~
21:10:54 <kmc> they're both !
21:11:07 <kmc> Rust has strong typing for integers so there is no implicit conversion between bools and ints
21:11:15 <kmc> and ~ was once in use for another since removed language construct
21:11:37 <FireFly> kmc: I've actually done that in my own notes before (whitespace for precedence)
21:12:06 <orin> yeah but ruby still has a jillion precedence levels inherited from C
21:12:36 <FireFly> especially for fractions I found it to be a bit handy, since it could reduce noise a bit
21:13:00 <orin> A || B and C in ruby is (A || B) and C
21:13:38 <HackEso> smlist 494: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy Cale
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21:37:55 <esowiki> [[Semordnilap]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60001&oldid=59962 * Orby * (+46) Adding output
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22:51:30 <kmc> shachaf: whoa, did you know Python 3.6 supports Perl-style string interpolation?
22:51:42 <kmc> dongs = 69; f'{dongs}'
22:52:03 <kmc> WELL NOW YOU DO
22:52:26 <orin> kmc: but nobody uses python 3 in real life
22:53:09 <kmc> that's because there's no such thing as real life
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23:06:52 <kmc> i'm sad but I forgot what about :(
23:06:54 <kmc> this is the worst
23:07:02 <kmc> better get high and then I'll forget that I'm sad as well
23:07:32 <shachaf> are you sad about josephine the cat
23:07:45 <shachaf> maybe proposing random things for you to be sad about isn't a good strategy
23:08:13 <kmc> probably not
23:08:19 <kmc> that cat really sparked joy :(
23:12:36 <esowiki> [[Bitch]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60002&oldid=59984 * Helen * (+175) /* Continuation on the above by User:Helen */ Added implementation of addition algorithm
23:15:43 <esowiki> [[Semordnilap]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60003&oldid=60001 * Orby * (+854)
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23:21:29 <kmc> ode to cats
23:24:18 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60004&oldid=59991 * Helen * (+34) Added bitch
23:42:53 <fizzie> We have a cat wall at the office.
23:43:08 <fizzie> (It's just a wall you can put a picture of your cat(s) on.)
23:44:58 <shachaf> kmc: did you know: glibc memcmp on ARM used to switch into big endian mode
23:45:19 <kmc> and why'd they stop
23:45:54 <shachaf> https://github.com/rsaxvc/arm-mem/commit/b836e465c2fd0bb006b428abce99e31607072834
23:46:19 <shachaf> maybe this isn't glibc? whatever
23:46:31 <shachaf> it broke valgrind, for one
23:51:47 <kmc> does cortex-m support bi-endianness?
23:52:20 <shachaf> apparently it supports either but you can't switch
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23:54:11 <shachaf> Are there languages that have different calling conventions per function, specifying which registers need to be saved and so on?
23:56:53 <kmc> differing according to what
23:57:30 <shachaf> I mean, the compiler can figure it out when it compiles the function