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00:23:02 <zzo38> Does DOS even have a "do not fragment" flag? Otherwise is it even possible to boot from a non-DOS kernel stored there, since the bootloader for the other operating system might not undertsand the DOS file system?
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00:37:29 <fizzie> I don't think it does. IIRC, the SYS command specifically ensures that the two files *DOS* needs to boot (MSDOS.SYS + IO.SYS) are stored contiguously and at the start of the data area. At least on some versions.
00:38:17 <fizzie> ...I don't think it does have a "do not fragment" flag for files, that is. A lot of bootloaders know how to understand FAT, though.
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00:55:06 <kmc> zzo38: it would be possible with something like LOADLIN which runs as a DOS program
00:55:11 <kmc> or the LILO approach
00:55:21 <kmc> LILO, iirc can boot a kernel off ext2 which is not contiguous
00:55:34 <kmc> it stashes the fragment addresses somewhere (MBR?)
01:03:08 <fizzie> I think the sector map is in a file (/boot/map). Not sure how it finds that file though.
01:06:46 <kmc> fizzie: most likely its own sector address is in the MBR
01:06:52 <kmc> and it's small enough to be guaranteed to be one chunk
01:06:54 <kmc> but I'm not sure
01:07:10 * kmc tries to remember why /boot was traditionally separate anyway
01:11:42 <lambdabot> ENVA 250050Z 27021KT 9999 -SHRA SCT032 OVC047 07/02 Q1030 RMK WIND 670FT 28020G31KT
01:15:44 <fizzie> kmc: Problems with accessing all the sectors of large disks via BIOS functions was at least one reason.
01:16:09 <kmc> these days one has an EFI partition instead
01:16:32 <kmc> I'm pretty salty that they went with EFI rather than OpenFirmware for modern PC hardware
01:16:49 <kmc> I've never tried coding for EFI, although I know it's not that difficult and you can even target it with Rust
01:17:00 <kmc> uses PE executables, and there's a large set of system calls available
01:17:08 <kmc> I really think you could write nontrivial application software to run in EFI
01:17:18 <kmc> although I'm not sure if you have access to multiple cores or other fanciness
01:37:29 <shachaf> MULTIOCULAR CAT FACE WITH HEART-SHAPED EYES
01:37:42 <shachaf> SMILING SPIDER FACE WITH HEART-SHAPED EYES
01:38:36 <shachaf> No one has adopted MAN IN BUSINESS SUIT LEVITATING?
01:40:09 <b_jonas> zzo38: re do not fragment flag, if I understand correctly, the S attribute on files is or was interpreted by defragmenters as a sign to not move the file, as in, keep all clusters where it currently resides, and this was relied on by past bootloaders that are like lilo in that they load the system files from fixed locations,
01:40:21 <kmc> BULLET WITH BUTTERFLY WINGS
01:41:28 <b_jonas> but the boot loader of current versions of DOS actually parse the root directory and the FAT enough that this is no longer necessary, except possibly on ancient disks with sectors smaller than 512 bytes.
01:41:57 * kmc implemented FAT12 once for a course project
01:41:59 <kmc> it's really not hard
01:42:21 <b_jonas> kmc: sure, but you also have to implement fat16 to boot from a hard disk
01:42:51 <b_jonas> otoh you only have to implement the part that reads, not the part that writes, and you don't need to descend into directories, because the files needed at boot are in the root directory
01:43:55 <b_jonas> DOS can also boot from a compressed filesystem, in which case I believe the three system files will be marked such that they aren't compressed, but I don't know the details of this, because I never tried to set that up, I only made file systems other than the boot fs compressed
01:44:20 <b_jonas> there is also at least one third-party software that makes DOS support a custom file system and lets it boot from it
01:46:44 <kmc> oh, which one?
01:46:57 <b_jonas> kmc: a separate /boot is practical for various reasons. I use a separate boot because I use grub-l, which doesn't understand ext4, but my root file system is ext4. one could use a separate /boot so that the boot loader doesn't have to understand RAID, or EFI partition tables, or even access the boot disk on hardware level at, or to boot from hard disk but use an nfs mount for most of the file system, etc
01:47:33 <b_jonas> or to boot using loadlin, which uses the underlying DOS to read the kernel (and initrd), and DOS only reads FAT-12 and FAT-16
01:47:45 <kmc> for RAID servers, I like to put the bootloader on a USB stick
01:48:24 <kmc> I had a server with full disk encryption, and the USB stick had both the bootloader and the encryption key. so it was capable of unattended boot, but I could take the USB stick out and ship the rest of it cross-country without worrying about my data being read
01:48:58 <b_jonas> heck, at one point I even booted windows 95 from a floppy disk, to avoid having to set up and maintain a bootloader that can choose between booting DOS and Win95 and Linux on the same machine and hard disk.
01:49:41 <kmc> BITD i used loadlin and my 'bootloader' menu was in AUTOEXEC.BAT
01:49:45 <kmc> for Win98/Linux
01:50:04 <kmc> later on I triple booted Win98/Win2k/Linux and used NTLDR as my first bootloader
01:50:12 <b_jonas> but like you said above, boot loaders these days contain a whole operating system, so there are few things for which you'd need a separate /boot if you're willing to trust the boot loader
01:50:35 <kmc> it was surprisingly easy. you'd install LILO/GRUB into the non-master boot record, dd those 512 bytes onto the NT drive and you're ready
01:51:06 <b_jonas> kmc: just Win98/Linux is fine. that's what all the Linux distributions were geared to support, to get people into Linux. I did triple boot among DOS, Linux, and Win95OSR2, and I didn't quite trust the Win95 enough, so its boot went on the floppy
01:51:31 * kmc tries to remember if she had any other weird boot setups
01:51:53 <kmc> I've written my own MBR programs
01:51:55 <kmc> not bootloaders though
01:51:56 <shachaf> remember when you used windows nt as your kernel with linux userspace
01:51:57 <b_jonas> kmc: oh! Win98/Win2k/Linux triple book. nice.
01:52:07 <kmc> shachaf: if by "when" you mean "now"?
01:52:19 <kmc> i'm literally talking to you through mosh in WSL
01:52:38 <b_jonas> kmc: I tried too. I wrote one that just wrote a message on the screen.
01:53:00 <kmc> I switched back to Windows last year after 15 years as a die-hard Linux user
01:53:09 <kmc> this shocked my friends much more than me changing gender
01:53:30 <shachaf> kmc: if you had a single-use halting oracle what would you ask it twh
01:53:57 <kmc> how can entropy be reversed
01:54:50 <b_jonas> The grub-l setup is hopelessly obsolete. I'd have to get rid of it if I used a boot hard disk larger than two terabytes, but that might not happen soon: even if I buy larger hard disks, the boot disk will probably be one of the two I have now.
01:54:58 <kmc> what's grub-l
01:55:12 <b_jonas> kmc: it's the collective name for the grub versions with major version number 0
01:55:19 <b_jonas> any grub that isn't grub2 or grub4dos
01:55:37 <b_jonas> grub with 1 in its version number counts as grub2 before it was released
01:55:47 <kmc> so it's just old grub
01:56:31 <b_jonas> I'll probably want to switch to grub2 for my next computer even if grub-l could technically work though, as a way to introduce redundancy so that I can boot quickly if the boot hard disk dies.
01:57:30 <oerjan> `addquote <ais523_> ugh, now my Fugue hello world has got stuck in my head again
01:57:32 <HackEso> 1332) <ais523_> ugh, now my Fugue hello world has got stuck in my head again
01:58:16 <HackEso> A module is like a vector space, except with a ring instead of a field.
01:58:43 <shachaf> oerjan: what's the joke twh
01:59:01 <HackEso> 6169:2015-11-02 <oerjän> learn A module is like a vector space, except with a ring instead of a field.
01:59:48 <HackEso> A vector space is just a module over a field.
02:02:11 <HackEso> Politicians try to stay within the lie bracket: Not so many lies that voters cannot stand it, but not so few that they think you have nothing to give them.
02:02:22 <HackEso> 6174:2015-11-02 <oerjän> le/rn lie bracket/Politicians try to stay within the lie bracket: Not so many lies that voters cannot stand it, but not so few that they think you have nothing to give them.
02:02:30 <shachaf> is this entry outdated twh
02:04:25 <b_jonas> shachaf: we could amend it s/Poli/Most poli/
02:04:43 <b_jonas> it wasn't completely true in the past either, there were always some exceptions
02:05:00 <Sgeo> Who pinged me?
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02:05:48 <shachaf> There was an olist and a pbflist
02:06:04 <oerjan> <kmc> how can entropy be reversed <-- i think shachaf is subtly hinting that the oracle only gives one bit of answer.
02:06:06 <shachaf> We were talking about Ada, maybe you have a highlight on that?
02:07:47 <b_jonas> shachaf: the olist was almost a week ago
02:08:10 <oerjan> <shachaf> oerjan: what's the joke twh <-- hm i guess there isn't one.
02:09:02 <pikhq> kmc: Let's be honest, OS choice is _clearly_ more significant and invariant than gender, anyways
02:09:24 <b_jonas> kmc: I'm not surprised on anyone switching back to windows. windows has changed a lot, and hardware too.
02:09:34 <kmc> and there are people who dual-boot gender
02:09:36 <shachaf> oerjan: There as one, see below.
02:09:39 <kmc> b_jonas: indeed
02:09:41 <b_jonas> a lot of computer environment things changed.
02:09:46 <kmc> b_jonas: and linux has changed too, and not for the better
02:09:48 <kmc> s y s t e m d
02:09:54 <kmc> although I'm still not free, because WSL runs systemd :(
02:10:04 <b_jonas> I'm not changing to windows, but I can at least understand it better
02:10:06 <kmc> another advantage of windos is that more of the weird ham radio software runs in windows
02:10:16 <kmc> it was an easier switch than I thought
02:10:19 <shachaf> all operating systems are bad
02:10:19 <kmc> it was a slippery slope
02:10:23 <shachaf> as a result of being software
02:10:28 <kmc> got a new laptop, thought "hm I'll poke around Win10 while I decide which distro to install"
02:10:32 <kmc> "might as well get chrome"
02:10:41 <b_jonas> I was required to do a lot of things on windows for work, in my current job and my previous job too
02:10:43 <kmc> "hey this is actually usable. what, there's a tiling WM built in?"
02:10:54 <b_jonas> kmc: you could still use both windows and linux
02:10:56 <kmc> "wow it boots fast and the battery life is incredible"
02:11:03 <oerjan> <shachaf> oerjan: There as one, see below. <-- i'm not convinced i considered it a joke when writing it. or now.
02:11:05 <kmc> "let's try out this WSL thing"
02:11:05 <b_jonas> it's not like computers or disks are so expensive that you can't have both
02:11:15 <kmc> but I have literally only needed actual Linux one time
02:11:17 <kmc> and I used a VM
02:11:24 <kmc> I didn't even really need it then
02:11:32 <kmc> it was just easier than figuring out how to install adb in Windows
02:11:44 <shachaf> oerjan: Well, they were added within two minutes of each other.
02:11:57 <esowiki> [[User:Cortex/draft]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60075&oldid=58971 * Cortex * (-811) Blanked the page
02:12:22 <HackEso> D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. Taneb invented them.
02:13:08 <b_jonas> ``` set -e; cd wisdom; find -type l -printf "%p -> %l\n" # should all of these symlinks in wisdom exist?
02:13:08 <HackEso> ./СССР -> ссср \ ./the usual suspect -> usual suspect \ ./perpetuum mobile -> perpetual motion machine \ ./r.i.p. -> rip \ ./☆ -> * \ ./h4gb4rd -> hagb4rd \ ./issue -> .doorstop \ ./the reals -> real \ ./off by two error -> off by two \ ./wolfram -> stephen wolfram
02:14:00 <HackEso> Twinkle, twinkle, little star!
02:14:58 <oerjan> shachaf: um, neither is a joke. a vector space really _is_ just a module over a field.
02:15:28 <shachaf> Neither is a joke individually, the joke is the two definitions taken together.
02:15:36 <shachaf> Circular definitions. Is the joke.
02:15:54 <esowiki> [[Pyhton (sic)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60076&oldid=60074 * Something Fawful * (+95) aded categories
02:16:31 <HackEso> Applicative functors are just monoids in the category of endofunctors.
02:17:29 <b_jonas> shachaf: actually the module one is sort of a joke. just not a very good one.
02:18:37 <shachaf> oerjan: your jokes are good and you should feel good hth
02:18:59 <HackEso> 1/2:1005) <kmc> LIST OF ACRONYMS: List Integrating Some Terminology Of Fine Authentic Credibility Relating to Our New Year Media System \ 505) <fizzie> Isn't "strip nomic" just another word for all dating, though? \ 481) <monqy> game where you flip a coin but it's really really big \ 856) <kmc> i like the idea that if you name your country a Soviet Republic you automatically get the right to call up Lenin on the telephone and complain about bathroom pranks
02:19:15 <HackEso> 2/2: \ 195) <oklopol> hey speaking of young, some kinds asked me to buy some tobacco for them and i did, and then they were all likd "wow that guy's coool" when i told them i don't need their money
02:19:24 <b_jonas> I'm not sure if I even have a good joke somewhere in there. maybe the vacuum tube one isn't good either.
02:19:29 <kmc> fizzie I like your remark
02:23:09 <zzo38> Use Windows or Linux if you want (since many programs can run on both anyways), or dual-boot if you want, but I find Linux is mostly much better than Windows (although there is also stuff that both Linux and Windows do badly, as well as stuff that work better with Windows, but mostly Linux is much better).
02:23:32 <oerjan> <ais523_> there's a hungarian notation version of LOGO? <-- now i'm wondering what prefixes it uses. iirc Logo itself already uses : as a sigil
02:23:41 <pikhq> One thing I've found is that running Linux on a laptop is just hell.
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02:24:25 <zzo38> You might also prefer to purchase a computer with Linux already installed. (I purchased the computer I am using now it came with Linux already installed. Although, it is not a laptop computer, but they also sell laptop computers with Linux, too)
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02:27:54 <HackEso> scowrevs="$(/usr/bin/paste -sd'|' /hackenv/share/scowrevs)"; hg log -r "tip:0 & ! ($scowrevs)" "$@" | sed 's/\(\(^\| \)[<Itb][^ ]*\)\([^ ][^ ]\)/\1̈\3/'
02:32:43 <b_jonas> oerjan: ouch yeah, Excel can also use decimal comma instead of decimal dot, in which case three punctuation characters change, and this can be changed separately from the language
02:33:21 * oerjan is making a pun on hungarian notation in case b_jonas missed it
02:33:55 <oerjan> or, not even a pun, just a more common meaning
02:34:31 <b_jonas> oerjan: https://esolangs.org/logs/2019-02-24.html#lkj
02:35:05 <oerjan> um, i literally quoted that
02:35:06 <b_jonas> oerjan: also it gets boring after a while. try the "Hungry" pun, in case I haven't heard that.
02:35:44 <b_jonas> or maybe something about reverse polish notation
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02:36:11 <oerjan> i think you meant to link to a later comment that i hadn't yet got to. or should have.
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02:42:42 <HackEso> Ostrich used to be a large middle European empire in frequent conflict with Turkey. After a famine it sort of split into Ostrich/Hungry. Alas its policy of keeping its head in the sand did not get it through the Great War, and with its final attempts to take flight failing, it ended up cut into several pieces.
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03:14:40 <kmc> pikhq: what linux laptop problems do you have
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05:01:53 <kmc> i haven't had problems in a long time, but almost all my laptops have been thinkpads and I think the rest at least had Intel WiFi cards
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05:02:23 <shachaf> Seems to work OK on my Dell laptop
05:03:11 <kmc> ndiswrapper... those were the dark days
05:04:00 <shachaf> going to go edit XF86Config for old times' sake
05:04:13 <kmc> shachaf: don't screw up your modelines
05:04:16 <kmc> or your monitor might explode
05:04:30 <shachaf> ubuntu only works with no xorg.conf file
05:04:42 <shachaf> if i make a file, no matter what i put in it, x just doesn't start
05:04:54 <shachaf> even if i ask it to generate the default file that's supposed to be what it does anyway
05:05:04 <kmc> do you know why?
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05:05:17 <pikhq> TBH, these days I just use Windows on a laptop with WSL, and mosh to a full Linux system as I need it.
05:05:19 <shachaf> and every time i mess with the video settings things end up worse than before
05:05:27 <kmc> pikhq, same
05:05:31 <nfd9001> does anyone here know of any generalized F-algebra based languages?
05:05:32 <shachaf> the year of linux on the desktop
05:05:44 <kmc> I'm pretty impressed with WSL
05:05:46 <nfd9001> Like, you may only declare algebras and their carriers
05:05:55 <kmc> it can't have been easy to implement most of the linux kernel syscall api
05:06:14 <kmc> the only non-graphical program I've found that doesn't work is GNU Screen
05:06:18 <nfd9001> I still usually use a VM, but WSL is quite nice
05:06:21 <kmc> and I'm 100% willing to blame Screen for that
05:06:35 <shachaf> I don't know what that would be but I like F-algebras
05:07:51 <HackEso> nfd9001: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <https://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
05:07:52 <nfd9001> you've probably seen me on #haskell once or twice?
05:08:47 <nfd9001> i've been a passive observer of esolangs before, written a location-based BF, and i have something like half a spec together for a language based on Linda
05:08:57 <nfd9001> which i guess just looks like a weird platonic Erlang
05:09:17 <nfd9001> never was too active here though
05:28:48 <pikhq> kmc: musl reveals a few bugs in it.
05:29:15 <esowiki> [[Increment]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60077 * Cortex * (+492) Created page with "'''Increment''' == Commands == {| class="wikitable" |- ! Character !! What it does |- | Any character except the ones listed below || Increment the accumulator by the charact..."
05:29:31 <pikhq> Though the main one I know is that it has the wrong x87 settings, and since musl's libm uses long doubles, it actually ends up showing that.
05:30:30 <zzo38> nfd9001: What is the half of the spec so far?
05:31:11 <kmc> pikhq: Screen has the wrong settings? in what sense
05:31:19 <nfd9001> Hah, it's handwritten, sec
05:31:30 <pikhq> kmc: No, I mean WSL has this bug
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05:33:56 <nfd9001> zzo38: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/465424725146075136/549463743395004416/unknown.png https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/465424725146075136/549463882922721311/unknown.png no discussion of syntax in here yet, but i can get to the general idea
05:35:14 <nfd9001> Basically, you should be imaging a Linda-like tuplespace on which abstract processes are trying to pull tuples that match patterns. Their output is just committing more tuples to the bag
05:36:26 <nfd9001> So ("word", x, y, z) -> (z, "otherword", x, x) could describe a machine that matches a tuple where x, y, and z are free variables, then sticks them into the pattern of its output on the right
05:36:39 <nfd9001> and it goes right back into the same bag
05:37:14 <nfd9001> I imagine an efficient compiler would try to inline work, and then it'd all be managed from "the bag" by a work-stealing scheduler
05:38:43 <nfd9001> side effects/atomic actions could be performed by passing tuples to "special machines" you pass arguments and a callback name
05:39:11 <nfd9001> like (cat, a, b, callback) -> (callback, a+b)
05:40:42 <zzo38> OK, I can see what you mean now
05:41:17 <nfd9001> it's far from a fully-baked idea
05:41:36 <nfd9001> probably could use some sort of a combinator
05:47:03 <zzo38> Possibly multiple tuples in either side of the definition (especially if machines are selected at random)?
05:48:20 <nfd9001> Or we could instead explicitly make curried machines, ie. matching on one machine creates another machine which does its work and then stops watching the bag
05:48:59 <zzo38> OK, you could do that then if you want to do, I suppose
05:50:10 <nfd9001> Either way, I'd imagine that a machine can only wait on one tuple match at once, so as to avoid deadlock
05:55:33 <nfd9001> Or we can have some machine that can glom together two tuples
05:56:07 <nfd9001> Whichever way you slice it, it kind of hurts the platonic beauty of the thing. I can't really decide which way to go
05:56:25 <nfd9001> I'm ok with the idea of one machine outputting multiple tuples, conceptually. It'd make perfect sense in Linda
05:58:12 <nfd9001> I'd kiiiiiinda lean towards curried machines being the prettiest solution (maybe then offering uncurried machines as syntactical sugar)
05:58:27 <nfd9001> seems best that i write all that down before I start implementing, haha
05:59:15 <zzo38> Yes, write down before implementing, perhaps write it on the computer. Yes, curried could do
06:02:13 <shachaf> Is this still the F-algebra thing?
06:02:25 <shachaf> imo T-algebras are where it's at
06:02:29 <nfd9001> Nah, this is an older idea I had
06:03:29 <oerjan> nfd9001: shouldn't a language based on Linda be anything _but_ platonic hth
06:04:11 <nfd9001> oerjan: i think i'll literally use a Linda implementation as a backend
06:06:08 <nfd9001> shachaf: hahah DO you know me?
06:06:41 <HackEso> Come and dance and love the fish! Mister Disco summoned it.
06:06:50 <nfd9001> Haskell programmers pronounce Klesli composition "fish"
06:07:23 <lambdabot> ray says: enlarge your kleisli arrow, please the category ladies
06:07:31 <lambdabot> ray says: enlarge your kleisli arrow, please the category ladies
06:07:39 <shachaf> @forget ray enlarge your kleisli arrow, please the category ladies
06:07:42 <lambdabot> edwardk says: i'm MUCH happier with a comonad that lives in the kleisli category of some monad, or a monad that lives in the cokleisli category of a comonad, than I am with a distributive law that
06:07:42 <lambdabot> all it can do is ensure that things are 'maximally terrible' in terms of how much work you do
06:08:02 <lambdabot> shachaf says: <Tekmo> Then you just compose them <shachaf> Uh-oh, Tekmo is going to >=> <Tekmo> using Kleisli composition
06:09:17 <nfd9001> shachaf: where'd you come up with Bellingham? stalking my ip/hn/reddits/github/whatever?
06:09:32 <shachaf> Yes, trying to figure out if I know you.
06:09:39 <nfd9001> not like this nick isn't totally transparent
06:10:02 <nfd9001> my name's right on my github
06:10:43 <pikhq> No fun, your name should be [redacted]
06:11:15 <shachaf> I guess I shouldn't say personally identifying things in a public channel anyway, sorry.
06:11:33 <oerjan> Redac, Ted in publication lists
06:11:34 <pikhq> Yeah, not everyone's okay with that
06:11:46 <pikhq> Particularly one that's publicly logged
06:18:44 <pikhq> Going pretty well, really
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06:46:21 <esowiki> [[Thue-Mirr]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60078&oldid=59784 * Salpynx * (+1) spacing
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07:19:54 <esowiki> [[User:Cortex]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60079&oldid=59925 * Cortex * (+16)
07:22:38 <esowiki> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60080&oldid=59944 * Cortex * (+43)
07:29:40 <esowiki> [[Talk:Thue-Mirr]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60081 * Salpynx * (+2036) Hello World, and termination
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11:01:58 <orin> I have decided rather than figuring out which characters I need to display next to a placeholder ◌
11:02:17 <orin> I will display all characters next to a ◌
11:02:22 <shachaf> orin: how do the cool kids render text nowadays twh
11:02:33 <shachaf> do they use signed distance fields
11:02:47 <Taneb> shachaf: charcoal on wood
11:03:31 <HackEso> Char is a prominent component of charcoal.
11:05:29 <orin> https://imgur.com/w0VTpPD
11:06:13 <orin> my bdf edit program is almost perfect
11:08:00 <shachaf> bdf = boring distance fields?
11:10:13 <orin> Bitmap Distribution Font or something
11:10:21 <orin> it's a font format
11:11:10 <orin> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glyph_Bitmap_Distribution_Format
11:15:37 <shachaf> i heard bézier curves are where it's at, though
11:15:58 <Taneb> Hard to do in a low-resolution bitmap
11:16:27 <orin> also hard to display in a terminal
11:17:06 <orin> even the "hi res" version above the main editing field is cheating using braille
11:17:37 <shachaf> Why are you displaying in a terminal?
11:20:31 <orin> https://paste.ee/p/BjY2I
11:20:44 <orin> shachaf: so I can edit my font in a terminal
11:24:27 <orin> shachaf: so that it can be the only font by terminals, for terminals
11:26:51 <Taneb> orin: will it work on my receipt printer?
11:28:51 <orin> Taneb: might work
11:29:31 <orin> not sure what format recipt printers take their fonts in
11:33:36 <orin> but I would think 16x9 would be a pixel size they would support
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14:18:37 <esowiki> [[Bitch]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60082&oldid=60015 * A * (+296) /* Continuation on the above by User:Helen */
14:21:50 <esowiki> [[Bitch]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60083&oldid=60082 * A * (+80) /* The attempt will not work, unfortunately */
14:22:39 <esowiki> [[Bitch]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60084&oldid=60083 * A * (+1) /* The attempt will not work, unfortunately */
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14:48:33 <wob_jonas> `bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.comicgenesis.com/d/20190223.html
14:48:34 <HackEso> bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.comicgenesis.com/d/20190223.html: b_jonas
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18:29:00 <int-e> . o O ( iff and only iff )
18:33:22 <orin> At some point I shoudl refactor my font processing tools so they are more generic
18:33:58 <orin> for example, not hardcoding the size of the font at 9 by 16
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18:36:24 <zzo38> Yes, you should probably allow other sizes
18:36:48 <zzo38> Does it support 16-bit characters or only 8-bit characters?
18:37:21 <orin> zzo38: currently processes everything as 32-bit encoding numbers
18:38:04 <orin> but there is an arbitrary limit at 0x20000 in my editor
18:39:02 <orin> the limit shoudl probaby be something else
18:39:16 <orin> what's the maximum unicode code point
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18:40:37 <orin> the BDF format doesn't actually specify what the encoding is though
18:40:51 <zzo38> Yes, although you might want to use some coding other than Unicode. The .pcf format supports 16-bit characters, and the X font system also does (although maybe .bdf allows any number of characters; I don't know)
18:41:30 <orin> .bdf uses a text format with decimal numbers for code points so theoretically it could be any number
18:41:49 <zzo38> orin: Yes, and that is why 0x10FFFF is perhaps too low (although in order to support Unicode, it should be at least that high)
18:42:19 <zzo38> Still you may limit it to 32-bit numbers, even if the file format allows higher numbers.
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19:21:45 <zzo38> I had a idea if in some roguelike game that you can fly, but, while flying, you cannot go through doors (even if open), pick up objects, make melee attacks against opponents on the ground, and maybe also you cannot cast some spells, but you can go faster and go over water and statues (but not walls), and it takes time to go up or to land.
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19:46:43 <b_jonas> correct, in particular in a font you could assign a higher number to a glyphs that isn't the default glyph for any character, but is either a variant for a character, or a ligature. but practically, you probably can't encode those to a BDF/PCF font in a way that terminals will use it, so that only comes up in OTF and other fonts.
19:50:01 <b_jonas> Question. Mozart's ''Die Entführung aus dem Serail'' opera is very popular. "Pedrillo" is the name of a good guy in it. How come then that that name is virtually unused for anything else? Character names in popular fiction works usually get picked up and used as named for real people.
19:50:35 <b_jonas> (It's not the only such name from Mozart's operas, but the one where it seems the most strange.)
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20:13:13 <b_jonas> Oh, another question. Is there a theatre play with no scenes, played entirely with the curtains closed?
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20:33:17 <fizzie> b_jonas: Is that like the theatre equivalent of 4'33"?
20:33:54 <b_jonas> fizzie: no, I don't think so
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20:34:10 <b_jonas> fizzie: it doesn't have to be silent or lacking visuals. actors can come in front of the curtain, lit,
20:34:31 <b_jonas> and actors can speak audibly in front of the curtain, or even behind the curtain, although the latter can be harder
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20:34:50 <fizzie> Oh, I see, I interpreted "scenes" more broadly.
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20:35:02 <b_jonas> it's just that all of it is done as if it were an introduction or transmission between scenes
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20:36:24 <b_jonas> a possible equivalent of 4'33" would be a play or opera with no _acts_, where the audience doesn't even enter the theater hall, they only have conversations with other people on the corridors of the theater
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20:38:54 <a35> i've been using duolingo lately
20:39:16 <kmc> i like this idea
20:39:33 <b_jonas> I have the feeling that the no act one has been done already
20:39:49 <b_jonas> the no act one probably hasn't been done
20:39:55 <kmc> charge for tickets, people come in wearing their fancy theater clothes, buy drinks, take their seats, lights go down, lights go right back up, intermission, repeat
20:39:58 <b_jonas> I mean the no scene one probably has been done
20:40:07 <kmc> sounds like a good racket
20:40:21 <b_jonas> there are definitely theater plays with only one actor, I've even seen one
20:40:45 <b_jonas> and there's at least one opera with only two solo singers incidentally
20:42:21 <a35> xxxcxKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK
20:42:29 <a35> outputs idk newlines
20:42:45 <a35> if anybody is actually using esolangs.org here
20:46:30 <a35> If your ↄ program fails to execute, what language is it?
20:47:50 <b_jonas> a35: we don't use that site, except for the channel logs. we pretty much keep it as a trashcan so that the people who want to write down their really bad ideas have some place to put it, rather than vandalizing wikipedia or some other important site.
20:48:44 <a35> i keep it in microsoft word
20:48:58 <b_jonas> plus I think a few people use the bfjoust hill there
20:49:48 <b_jonas> but ais declared that the hill is now pretty much optimized
20:50:33 <a35> ooh, do you hear that
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20:55:51 <a35> ok im gonna play nethack im getting bored
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21:09:21 <b_jonas> and make everything overly general
21:15:59 <orin> what I need is a program that I can pipe things through that will put a timestamp on each line
21:16:27 <kmc> moreutils has that
21:16:29 <kmc> it's called ts, iirc
21:16:33 <orin> is there a standard unix program that can do this or
21:17:03 <b_jonas> orin: perl -pe '$_=time()."\t".$_'
21:18:59 <b_jonas> it gets a bit uglier if you want to use fractions of a second or a specific date format though
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22:21:07 <b_jonas> temperature is predicted to be above zero for the next four days now.
22:21:24 <b_jonas> there's still a little wind, but not too bad
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23:22:36 <esowiki> [[User:Plugnburn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60085&oldid=36923 * Plugnburn * (+113) Added EcmaByter reference
23:24:17 <esowiki> [[BytePusher]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60086&oldid=58086 * Plugnburn * (+157) /* Machines */ added EcmaByter
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23:47:19 <fizzie> Here it was the warmest February day in the UK since ever.
23:47:47 <fizzie> Four of the met office measurement stations recorded >= 20°C.
23:48:28 <fizzie> BBC has some nice "a year ago vs. today" picture pairs at https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47360952
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