00:00:07 <kmc> building high quality software that can be used by people who are fighting the authoritarian state is a valuable form of direct action
00:00:11 <kmc> anyway that's my opinion
00:00:28 <kmc> I was more venting rather than trying to have an in depth conversation
00:00:36 <kmc> your point is well taken though
00:01:10 <Phantom_Hoover> idk i think the glorious vision of, like, wikileaks leading us to a new democratic dawn crashed and burned
00:01:26 <Phantom_Hoover> turned out wikileaks had no political vision beyond iconoclasm and just climbed into the pockets of right-wing ideologues
00:01:47 <b_jonas> kmc: feel free to vent, but if you do it on an irc channel, sometimes people reply
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00:04:07 <kmc> thanks b_jonas
00:04:12 <kmc> I wasn't upset that PH replied
00:04:25 <kmc> just saying, i might not stay in the convo for very long
00:04:49 * kmc is angry at software, angry at life, angry at herself :(
00:04:56 <kmc> and rapidly feeling worse
00:05:54 <Phantom_Hoover> i feel like this is something im increasingly cognisant of, that even if you have an interesting disagreement with someone who is venting about something they are probably not going to be interested in disagreeing with you
00:09:26 <shachaf> most software is p. bad but you can still make ok software
00:09:58 <esowiki> [[Bitch]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60206&oldid=60194 * A * (-41) Z3 operates in binary, so unbounded cells are not necessary.
00:10:52 <int-e> . o O ( silence thine fine utterings )
00:11:02 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60207&oldid=60151 * A * (-141)
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00:36:46 <zzo38> There are some libraries that you can pass your own functions for memory allocation. SQLite has this option, and Lemon parser generator can also do, and so does smallxrm (my own implementation of the X resource manager)
00:39:23 <Phantom_Hoover> can't you do that for all libraries that use a dynamically linked malloc
00:41:12 <pikhq> But only globally.
00:42:00 <kmc> with enough hackery it wouldn't have to be global
00:42:13 <kmc> however, you will then have big problems if allocations are passed between libraries
00:42:35 <pikhq> And I can think of more pleasant uses of your time, such as gouging out your eyes.
00:42:39 <zzo38> For example, smallxrm has the following function for initialization: int xrm_init(void*(*f)(void*,size_t)); So if you call xrm_init(realloc) then it will initialize everything and will remember to use the passed function for memory allocation.
00:43:11 <pikhq> zzo38: Oh, it's storing the allocator globally? Ick.
00:43:26 <shachaf> Taking an allocator argument can be good but sometimes I don't want to call any allocator.
00:43:39 <shachaf> Just allocate some memory for the thing up front
00:43:54 <zzo38> Yes, although SQLite does the same thing (although I think SQLite4 allows you to create local environments too)
00:44:36 <zzo38> shachaf: You can do that, if the passed function just returns the already allocated data
00:45:00 <zzo38> (But then you still have to keep track by yourself of the allocations anyways; that is what TeX does)
00:45:02 <shachaf> But then I need to make a custom allocator for that one call.
00:45:51 <zzo38> If the program needs dynamic allocation at all, then it will be needed, I think.
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01:37:45 <HackEso> /srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: yo: not found
01:38:03 <shachaf> v. mysterious. vysterious.
01:38:18 <HackEso> 1/2:culprits//c[uw]lprits lists the nicks responsible for a file or wisdom entry. Usage: `culprits FILE or `cwlprits ENTRY \ utf8//utf-8 is an encoding for humans to tell the time in symbolic processing programs. \ zork//Zork is like York, except for the first letter. Uaneb invented it. \ ravnica: city of guilds//Ravnica: City of Guilds is a city of guilds. “City of Guilds” is part of its name. The Wizards of the Coast Marketing Department: We
01:38:25 <HackEso> 2/2:Sell Anything thought players might not notice it was a City of Guilds unless they put the tagline into the name. \ co-np//co-NP, invented in Soviet Russia, is the class of decisions for which you are No Problem.
01:38:32 <orbitaldecay> Are there any other langs on the wiki based on dynamical systems that anyone knows of?
01:38:54 <orbitaldecay> not neccesarily systems of differential equations, just general dynamical systems
01:39:12 <HackEso> NP is the complexity class of decision problems that are No Problem.
01:39:24 <HackEso> P is the complexity class of Problems. They can be solved by reduction to NP.
01:39:38 <shachaf> oerjan: itym reduction from hth
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02:11:07 <oerjan> the hth script has a silly bug where it complains about missing packages if i have hth at the end of the first message i post after logging on irssi
02:11:57 <shachaf> I forgot you have that script.
02:12:10 <oerjan> after that message they're apparently loaded
02:12:26 <oerjan> yep, that's what the s/ was for
02:13:18 <shachaf> the hth script hanothers a silly bug
02:14:17 <shachaf> is hanother named after hanover
02:14:56 <orbitaldecay> oerjan: did you see int-e's interesting idea on the poolshark talk page?
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02:58:27 <fizzie> What does the hth script do twh
02:59:42 <oerjan> also similar for a few other acronyms
03:00:26 <oerjan> tdh tdnh twnh at least
03:01:40 <shachaf> that would make more sense
03:01:50 <oerjan> or just wolves actually
03:02:01 <shachaf> that would make more sense
03:02:12 <shachaf> since wolves howl and witches do not
03:02:22 <shachaf> werewolves do not even exist so they certainly don't howl
03:02:23 <oerjan> i'm not sure about witches
03:03:01 <oerjan> well they're hypothetical beings as implied by the "were"
03:06:13 <shachaf> aren't those just past beings
03:06:22 <shachaf> as opposed to arewolves which exist right now
03:14:31 <oerjan> if they were past beings, they wouldn't be hypothetical duh
03:14:42 <oerjan> i suppose it's ambiguous
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05:43:58 <orin> so the singular of werewolves is waswolf
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06:03:33 <oerjan> orin: only with shachaf's interpretation hth
06:05:01 <oerjan> which would not apply if the werewolf were hypothetical
06:06:27 <shachaf> The standard singular is "werewolf" which does support the subjunctive interpretation.
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06:48:23 <pikhq> You appear to be connected via IP-over-smoke-signal.
07:06:08 <oerjan> adu: you stopped just as i was putting my finger on the ban button
07:06:45 <orin> argh what's with the kloeri spam
07:06:54 <orin> on eveyr channel I'm in except this one
07:07:51 <oerjan> is someone making abusive messages about freenode staff again
07:09:21 <shachaf> i don't care to click the link and find out who the target is hth
07:09:27 <HackEso> 1/2:erlang//Erlang has tricked people into loving global mutable variables while pretending to embrace immutability. \ itidus19//itidus19 disappeared into a space-time anomaly \ angband//Angband is Morgoth's second dungeon (the first was Utumno). When the greater and lesser people of Middle-Earth together defeated Morgoth in Angband, they were too lazy to go to for 100% completion, so some evil spirits in Angband survived for a sequel, and Morgoth hi
07:09:28 <pikhq> I just had to make a channel I'm op in +R for a bit.
07:09:30 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan.
07:09:34 <HackEso> 2/2:mself recovered and arrived to Numenor. \ life//‘Life,’ said Marvin, ‘don't talk to me about life.’ \ emacs//emacs is the weird brother of nano.
07:09:58 <HackEso> 8481:2016-06-14 <oerjän> sled wisdom/erlang//s/./E/;s/$/./ \ 8478:2016-06-14 <Sgëo> learn erlang has tricked people into loving global mutable variables while pretending to embrace immutability
07:10:00 <pikhq> shachaf: The target is a decent guy who pissed off some idiot trolls, basically.
07:10:12 <oerjan> pikhq: "unknown mode character +R"
07:10:17 <shachaf> pikhq: I mean, whether the target is a Freenode staff or something else.
07:10:35 <pikhq> oerjan: Yeah, it's not on Freenode; unreal IRC does different modes than here
07:10:50 <pikhq> shachaf: Former Freenode staffer, IIRC.
07:10:51 <shachaf> can you set this channel to be unreal twh
07:10:58 <shachaf> pikhq: OK, but I don't even know their name.
07:11:03 <shachaf> I'm not going to click the link.
07:11:08 <shachaf> I didn't even know it was a person.
07:11:15 <oerjan> we silenced unregistered users, but i've forgotten the incantation
07:11:33 <pikhq> shachaf: The link is for a distro.
07:11:58 <pikhq> I just happen to know a bit about the distro and know a former Freenode staffer is a (minor!) contributor, and that previous spam messages attacked them by name in association with that distro.
07:15:18 <zzo38> That allows only registered users to join.
07:15:27 <zzo38> (It is explained by "HELP CMODE".)
07:16:07 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +q $~a.
07:16:10 <zzo38> If you want to allow unregistered users to join but don't send messages to the channel, then maybe "+q $~a" will do?
07:16:24 <oerjan> shachaf: found it in my chanserv logs
07:16:36 <zzo38> (explained by "HELP EXTBAN")
07:16:54 <oerjan> shachaf: private queries only
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07:17:30 <oerjan> shachaf: irssi apparently does so by default for messages i send, too
07:17:38 <oerjan> no idea how to turn that off
07:18:53 <shachaf> my irssi certainly doesn't log
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16:31:24 <zzo38> What would you expect a MIX computer to do if the pattern of holes punched into a card does not correspond to any valid character?
16:45:25 <esowiki> [[Poolshark]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60208&oldid=60177 * Orby * (+31) /* Introduction */
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17:33:01 <zzo38> Are you any good at computer machines with cards?
17:34:32 <rain1> I think it should error by lighting up a LED that indicates failure and eject the card
17:35:34 <zzo38> Yes, that could do, but have you worked with such computers and what would they do in such case (if you have ever tried it)?
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18:39:12 <esowiki> [[Poolshark]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60209&oldid=60208 * Orby * (+1175) Adding section on magic mirrors
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19:19:30 <zzo38> How should priorities of noun phrases be assigned in a text adventure game, do you think?
19:32:58 <b_jonas> orbitaldecay: re dynamical systems, ais523's integrator language should count. https://esolangs.org/wiki/Analogia
19:34:15 <rain1> I'm not sure what it means to assign noun phrases
19:36:46 <zzo38> For example, you have "me" to refer to the player character, and then the magic diamond can use either "diamond" or "magic diamond" (the latter with a higher priority), and the police report can use either "report" or "police report" (again, the latter with a higher priority). But sometimes other functions may add a number to the priority, for example if you want to pick up an item, items you already have are low priority.
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19:37:48 <rain1> i suppose it looks over all options and picks the highest priority
19:38:04 <rain1> or uses priority to break ties
19:38:34 <zzo38> Yes. If there is a tie for the highest priority, then it is ambiguous so it displays an error message.
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20:11:59 <orin> https://i.imgur.com/NcW0NJL.jpg
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22:52:05 <zzo38> Has anything been achieved by attempting to decompress a random bit stream?
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22:54:32 <rain1> unhuffman encoding a random bitstream would be randomly generating letters with varying probability
22:55:01 <zzo38> Yes, although there is other kind of compression too, as well as stuff to compress other than text.
22:55:29 <b_jonas> zzo38: you could consider a lot of sampling algorithms, like what fungot does, to be doing that
22:55:29 <fungot> b_jonas: i've browsed around fnord for at least a little bit of assembly. c's is, because you have not been able to do it
22:56:11 <imode> ah, the wisdom of fungot.
22:56:11 <fungot> imode: http://octiron.org/ temp/ fnord temp/ fnord
22:57:32 <b_jonas> although perhaps it's more decoding than decompressing, because they needn't be particularly careful to not use extra input entropy, so the compression doesn't compress too well
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23:20:25 <zzo38> Do you like Glulx assembly language? I am making "Game of XYZABCDE - Part II" in Glulx.
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23:28:35 <shachaf> Why are C++ coroutines so complicated and rely on an allocator?
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23:38:04 <pikhq> I'm guessing they imposed some requirements that resulted in that.
23:38:25 <pikhq> Something like interacting vaguely sanely with C code that's unaware of C++ coroutines or some such.
23:39:00 <shachaf> Somehow they reduced it to an unsolved research problem in compiler optimization that should be solved in 5-10 years.
23:39:10 <shachaf> this is the superpower of the c++ committee
23:39:53 <pikhq> Which is funny, when you consider that _C_ can get simpler coroutines.
23:40:08 <pikhq> I mean, it's not as a standard language feature, but it would not take much.
23:40:42 <pikhq> (by the way, IMO a new language that's imperative-y really should just fucking do coroutines.)
23:40:49 <shachaf> Well, C++ isn't doing stack switching style coroutines, they're going for something more efficient.
23:41:58 <shachaf> Well, it's what they were going for, I have no idea what they actually ended up with.
23:42:14 <shachaf> But I'd certainly like there to be a language that has good support for this style, rather than stack switching.
23:44:08 <shachaf> Is there any language that implements it well?
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23:57:01 <zzo38> How is C++ coroutines is work?
23:57:51 <shachaf> I don't know, it's very complicated apparently.
23:59:10 <oerjan> did the spam in other channels from yesterday stop?
23:59:22 <zzo38> I suppose some kind of assembly language can have coroutines too, although Z-machine and Glulx don't allow you to change the stack. In JavaScript there are generator functions, which can be used to do something like coroutines, although I also wanted to have real stack switching too it is sometimes useful