00:12:47 <esowiki> [[User:Cortex]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60227&oldid=60224 * Cortex * (+360)
00:19:01 <esowiki> [[Befunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60228&oldid=60220 * Oerjan * (-1) /* Language overview */ sp
00:19:48 <oerjan> mediawiki's default diff is so annoying for checking anything other than small localized changes (and even then beware of newlines)
00:20:20 <oerjan> although i guess i trust b_jonas not be doing vandalism when moving sections :)
00:20:49 <oerjan> ...i cannot see whether he edited anything at the same time, though.
00:21:47 * oerjan always uses WikEdDiff [sp?] on wikipedia, unless the changes are so big it starts gobbling cpu
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00:25:56 <esowiki> [[Works in progress]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60229&oldid=60221 * Oerjan * (+95) Make a policy for putting the foot down so I can start deleting things that don't belong
00:28:31 <oerjan> hm that doesn't quite work.
00:30:33 <b_jonas> oerjan: you shouldn't trust me. and I did edit something: I turned the Etymology thing to a deeper level header
00:30:38 <HackEso> Itymology is the science of understanding the true meaning of a statement.
00:31:05 <esowiki> [[Works in progress]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60230&oldid=60229 * Oerjan * (-95) Undo revision 60229 by [[Special:Contributions/Oerjan|Oerjan]] ([[User talk:Oerjan|talk]]) (OK this doesn't work, the already existing entries have too much ambiguity)
00:31:37 <oerjan> b_jonas: i think i noticed that. i meant editing things inside what you moved.
00:31:40 <b_jonas> I mean, I probably don't vandalize it, but I might still make bad changes
00:32:13 <oerjan> true, you made a spelling error :P
00:34:35 <oerjan> that Works in progress page should probably have been a category from the start.
00:36:22 <oerjan> it seems like some entries are just collaborations between a couple people
00:36:39 <oerjan> which doesn't imply everyone else is invite to change the specs
00:36:46 <b_jonas> oerjan: yes, but you all have been scaring people from creating categories.
00:37:02 <oerjan> that occured to me too
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00:42:27 <shachaf> itymology is such a good word
00:42:39 <b_jonas> well, a wiki may be a good tool to collaborate on creating a specification
00:42:49 <oerjan> adding a blurb for befunge when nominating it was a good idea, although i'm not sure if we should require it from nominators
00:43:03 <oerjan> (it'll probably speed up things)
00:43:18 <b_jonas> well, the hard part is probably still getting the article to a betters tate
00:43:37 <b_jonas> but we have to start writing the blurb tool, so I thought I'd start
00:44:18 <b_jonas> the instructions on the nomination page seem a bit obsolete, and not reflecting the current reality of how the featured language box works now
00:45:39 <oerjan> well the current reality is that it didn't work for 5 years
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01:02:13 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Windows * New user account
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01:36:17 <oerjan> ais523: i think we need some kind of policy that admin involvement in a featured language doesn't count if all active admins agree to it. otherwise we'll never get Underload featured :P
01:36:48 <ais523> persuade fizzie to do it :-P
01:37:04 <oerjan> he implemented it in fungot :P
01:37:04 <fungot> oerjan: but fnord is written in
01:37:25 <shachaf> well, everyone has implemented bf
01:37:33 <fizzie> Yeah, I don't think that counts as "involvement".
01:37:38 <fizzie> fungot: Are you feeling involved?
01:37:38 <fungot> fizzie: ( iirc) is a good
01:37:49 <fungot> shachaf: the l is somewhat like on the piano :) i spend most of your life
01:38:12 <shachaf> fungot: I've never seen an l key on the piano.
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01:39:50 <oerjan> this is not for nomination, non-admins can nominate. but ais523 seemed loathe to _select_ his own languages even when others nominated them.
01:40:47 <oerjan> (also nominations must be on the wiki hth)
01:41:16 <b_jonas> oerjan: there has to be somewhere where we can draft the front page text _before_ nominating a language to the feature box
01:41:25 <ais523> fwiw, I wouldn't object to admins featuring pre-reset nominations, the reset was just because 7 years is an awfully long time to be locked out of making a second nomination
01:41:38 <ais523> b_jonas: it used to be that people just nominated the language and the featuring admin wrote the front page text
01:41:42 <ais523> which is part of the reason that it hardly ever got done
01:42:18 <b_jonas> oh, that reminds me. I wanted to ask something about intercal
01:42:24 <oerjan> hm i've thought about this before
01:42:54 <shachaf> There's a limited number of nominations?
01:43:09 <oerjan> shachaf: only one per person until it resets
01:43:22 <oerjan> although i'm pretty sure A had sneaked in under two accounts :P
01:43:32 <ais523> we should probably let peopel change their nomination as often as they were
01:43:34 <shachaf> Can you swap your nomination for a different one?
01:43:48 <ais523> oerjan: I deleted the second nomination, after checkusering to verify that it was two accounts of the same user
01:44:11 <ais523> (that's one of the few things you can legally checkuser for on Wikipedia: pretending to be two people on a poll or vote)
01:44:43 <ais523> *as often as they like
01:44:49 <ais523> shachaf: no, but I disagree with that rule
01:45:04 <oerjan> ais523: Iamcalledbob was also him, i suspect
01:45:18 <ais523> shachaf: yes, but there's a very long-standing (as in, from the moment the wiki was created) rule of "if we don't come up with a rule ourselves, we use Wikipedia's by default until a new agreement is established"
01:45:45 <b_jonas> ais523: you know how there's this redundant representation, where you represent an n-bit integer as a difference of two n-bit integers, with the advantage that you can do addition or subtraction on such a representation in such a way that carry has to be propagated only two levels, or only one level for adding a constant
01:45:51 <shachaf> I nominate ais523 for unilateral dictator of the wiki.
01:46:04 <b_jonas> ais523: and it can also be done in a not too complicated way using ordinary bitwise operations and shifts
01:46:32 <b_jonas> ais523: what I'd like to ask is, has that ever been used to represent 16-bit integer computations efficiently in Intercal?
01:46:45 <ais523> b_jonas: I don't believe so
01:46:58 <ais523> it should be possible to implement, I just don't think it's been done
01:47:16 <ais523> the vast majority of INTERCAL programs aim for space-efficiency rather than time-efficiency
01:47:39 <b_jonas> I don't think it's too inefficient though
01:47:45 <b_jonas> compared to other things you can do in intercal that is
01:48:01 <zzo38> I have not heard of such a representation before now, I think
01:48:04 <ais523> aiming for space-efficiency is a habit from 1972, I think, when computers had less memory
01:48:19 <shachaf> ais523: Isn't it more important nowadays than before?
01:48:35 <shachaf> Now that memory bandwidth is the bottleneck for most computation.
01:48:48 <ais523> what, space-efficiency? it is in the sense that cache misses tend to bottleneck things more than CPU execution units, yes
01:49:08 <ais523> but in that case you also have to take the space iin the instruction cache into account
01:49:23 <ais523> so there's a three-way tradeoff between memory usage, instruction length and instruction speed
01:49:56 <ais523> I think pipeline flushes have a cost that's comparable to that of an L1 cache miss, so you can't neglect instruction speed entirely
01:51:27 <oerjan> <ais523> shachaf: no, but I disagree with that rule <-- i suggest allowing changes after a suitable time period (a year maybe?), seems better than a complete reset
01:51:50 <ais523> is there any reason not to allow changes to be made arbitrary often?
01:52:12 <ais523> but yes, we could undo the reset if we're allowing people to change anyway
01:52:16 <shachaf> What's the difference between allowing changing your nomination and allowing any number of nominations?
01:53:28 <ais523> admins have a much shorter list to look through when they have to decided on a language
01:54:19 <shachaf> Can I nominate multiple languages with different weights?
01:54:30 <shachaf> So you can sample my nomination when you want to look through the list.
01:54:56 <ais523> really our whole featured languages process is fairly badly thought out :-D
01:57:26 <b_jonas> zzo38: http://mmix.cs.hm.edu/doc/mmix-doc.pdf paragraph 40, on page 32
01:58:15 <b_jonas> ais523: the way I phrased is, the instructions on https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Featured_languages/Candidates are badly thought out. I'm not srue that's the actual process you follow though.
01:59:55 <ais523> that's the process we follow, maybe it shouldn't be though
02:02:31 <shachaf> ais523 decides whatever he wants
02:02:50 <b_jonas> shachaf: I'd recommend that *fizzie* decides whatever he wants
02:03:07 <b_jonas> if it's ais523, then we'll never be able to feature his languages
02:03:18 <b_jonas> although if fizzie decides them, then we won't be able to feature befunge
02:03:41 <ais523> I'd like a process along the lines of "we try to decide on a schedule for language featuring in advance"
02:04:04 <ais523> e.g. someone suggested featuring BF Joust, and I realised October would be a good month for it; likewise, there was some suggestion of featuring a joke language for April
02:04:28 <b_jonas> why October in particular?
02:04:59 <ais523> it's the largest uptick for online gaming communities
02:05:11 <ais523> if you're running one of those, you normally get a spike in new members in October
02:05:20 <ais523> this is probably related to the fact that the academic year starts in September
02:05:20 <b_jonas> huh... I didn't know that. I thought that was the Christmas break
02:06:05 <ais523> Christmas break is often pretty much dead, to the extent that Agora and BlogNomic have both, at some point in the past, had rules that shut them down entirely over Christmas
02:06:37 <oerjan> agora still has a rule that nullifies deadline penalties then
02:10:06 <oerjan> <shachaf> Is the cures of the featured language that people make erivatives of it? <-- did anyone make a funciton derivative recently? :P
02:14:17 <zzo38> b_jonas: O, yes, there is the carry save addition
02:16:40 <ais523> oerjan: one language I'm working on has a few similarities to Funciton, but it's not really a derivative
02:17:32 <b_jonas> it also generalizes to when you already have, say, 32-bit addition primitives, but want to do carries from one word to another only up to one step, I think you can do that with the words storing like one or two extra bits
02:20:23 <oerjan> i recall thinking of something like this when verifying that adding an arbitrary list of numbers (or counting the number of set bits in input) can be done with a circuit of logarithmic depth
02:20:31 <b_jonas> as for funciton, what I've been thinking of independently of that language is a notation where (local) variables are represented by columns in the code, a function call (or call to a primitive) is written with a comma in the right column to put an output in a variable and
02:21:16 <b_jonas> an apostrophe for an input argument or backtick for an earlier input argument (so you can easily swap arguments), or a semicolon or comma for both input and output,
02:21:41 <ais523> b_jonas: mechanical analog computers are normally programmed vaguely like that, the computer itself has a matrix of axles, columns represent variables, rows represent execution units, and you connect them at the intersections to write the program
02:21:47 <b_jonas> and you can have multiple calls in the same line as long as they're more or less separated horizontally.
02:22:00 <b_jonas> this way the code sort of represents a circuit, with information flowing from top to bottom.
02:23:32 <b_jonas> and you can also put functions next to each other, where to define a function, you use a header pseudo-instruction that defines the name and parameters and an extra formal marker, plus a function end line that takes the output values (returns) and the formal marker in the same column to know which function header it matches
02:23:40 <oerjan> (the set bit counting part being a way to prove the complexity class inclusion TC_0 \subset NC_1)
02:23:50 <b_jonas> ais523: yeah, though this would be a bit higher level
02:24:50 <b_jonas> also, if you use short names for the most frequent functions, then the output variable could default to the first column of the function name.
02:25:08 <b_jonas> I know this is really vague, it doesn't come to a full specification, not even close, and I haven't figured out any of the details.
02:26:44 <b_jonas> but yes, if you only use higher level stuff, then this lends naturally to programming with either a punch card, or those things used for player pianos with little pins in places on a grid
02:26:58 <b_jonas> to lift levers that connect parts of the mechanism
02:27:29 <b_jonas> but I think more of the higher level version
02:28:45 <b_jonas> perhaps I should make at least a simple prototype language, to serve as an example for something that has explicit variables (not just, say, a data stack or the unlambda/underload no-variable thing), but no variable names
02:29:52 <b_jonas> it's a pity the clc intercal webpage is still down by the way
02:34:56 <kmc> ok, I refuckulated my radio statistics code so it's less heinous
02:35:16 <kmc> shachaf: imo you should get a ham license
02:35:24 <kmc> then we can chat using our radios
02:35:47 <kmc> I'm pretty sure there are VHF/UHF repeaters that cover Berkeley and the Sunset
02:36:06 <pikhq> But IRC isn't the maximally nerd way to do so.
02:36:17 <kmc> hams are the O.G. nerds
02:36:26 <fizzie> I really wanted to get a http://ronja.twibright.com/ back when I and a friend lived at the university campus with line-of-sight between the apartments.
02:36:29 <kmc> ham radio is at the same time profoundly un-cool and extremely punk rock
02:36:32 <shachaf> kmc: imo let's play internet relay cat
02:36:34 <fizzie> Unfortunately that didn't last long enough.
02:36:47 <shachaf> and then send me pictures of the cat through the internet
02:36:51 <shachaf> and then i visit you + the cat
02:36:56 <kmc> fizzie: is that one of those line-of-sight laser network links?
02:37:18 <fizzie> kmc: IIRC, it's not actually laser, but the same sort of thing.
02:37:21 <kmc> yeah, neat.
02:37:37 <kmc> cool stuff
02:37:51 <zzo38> Do you have the ability to post ARRL radiogram messages?
02:38:10 <fizzie> The Tetrapolis model has a visible wavelength, so I think in theory on foggy nights you should've been able to see the beam. (Well, and/or it would've stopped working.)
02:38:30 <kmc> zzo38: I don't really know anything about that, but probably? I have a General class license so I can do most things on most parts of the bands
02:39:20 <kmc> fizzie: our friendly local WISP uses laser links, in addition to milimeter wave and traditional microwave links
02:39:28 <kmc> shachaf: no, but i'm learning a bit
02:39:43 <kmc> shachaf: I'm using the method where you learn at full speed, adding one character at a time
02:39:51 <kmc> rather than learning the whole alphabet slowly and trying to speed up
02:40:08 <kmc> the former method (Koch method) is said to be better
02:40:39 <shachaf> smiling cat face with cat face shaped eyes
02:41:01 <kmc> because at any decent speed, you don't have time to decompose into individual dots and dashes
02:41:24 <kmc> you have to recognize each letter (and eventually words and codes) as a single thing
02:41:28 <b_jonas> if there's line of sight, can one of you wave semaphore flags and the other watch with a telescope?
02:41:38 <kmc> like reading by sounding out words, vs reading fluently
02:41:47 <kmc> b_jonas: yes, and it would be amusing to do TCP/IP over such a transport
02:41:59 <shachaf> kmc: do deaf people read faster than hearing people
02:42:13 <kmc> if you're not married to the idea of traditional semaphores, you could use 8 flags to represent one octet at a time
02:42:20 <kmc> shachaf: idk
02:42:41 <b_jonas> kmc: there's some esoteric representation with showing one hexit at a time with two flags
02:43:04 <b_jonas> kmc: and I think there's been a traditional semaphore that showed six trits, but I think the trit thing is a bad idea
02:43:55 <kmc> back to the statistics project: my current approach is as follows
02:44:34 <kmc> 1) calculate the average power across the whole frequency range at each timestep, and subtract it from each individual measurement. this subtracts out the slow variation in broad-spectrum noise
02:44:40 <b_jonas> kmc: what exposure time and frame rate do you use when measuring the signal strength?
02:45:15 <kmc> 2) calculate the average power (after the adjustment in (1)) on each frequency
02:45:32 <kmc> 3) calculate the % of time spent more than 1.5 dBm above the average
02:45:38 <kmc> this is a crude way to look for a bimodal distribution
02:45:54 <kmc> b_jonas: I already answered that, but it averages over 4 seconds
02:46:10 <b_jonas> oh, I must have missed it in the logs
02:46:46 <kmc> and during that time it quickly scans over the whole range
02:47:26 <b_jonas> so 4 seconds is the recip framerate, right?
02:47:30 <b_jonas> but what's the exposure time?
02:47:37 <kmc> I don't know what you mean
02:47:42 <kmc> it averages power over 4 seconds
02:47:45 <kmc> is that not an exposure?
02:47:59 <kmc> and the time between exposures starting is 4 seconds
02:48:03 <b_jonas> I thought "scans over the whole range" meant it doesn't scan all ranges at the same time
02:48:04 <kmc> so the frame rate is 0.25 Hz
02:48:28 <kmc> I don't know how quickly it hops frequencies, if that's what you're asking
02:48:38 <kmc> it digitizes 2.048 MHz of spectrum at once, and the band is 4 MHz (144 - 148 MHz) wide, and there is some overscan for Reasons
02:48:45 <kmc> so it does it in 3 chunks
02:48:57 <kmc> the tool is rtl_power if you want to look into it more
02:49:57 <kmc> anyway I think the above analysis may be about as good as I can do in a time invariant way (i.e. same result if you permute the frames arbitrarily)
02:50:03 <kmc> but that is a silly restriction so I think I can do much better
02:50:13 <b_jonas> so did your computation seem to work? have you found stations that you could listen to and figure out something about?
02:50:30 <kmc> it finds stations that are already clear in the waterfall graph
02:50:43 <b_jonas> that's still useful, since it's automated
02:50:48 <kmc> that is the challenge
02:51:01 <kmc> to automate it, and gather statistics over many days or weeks
02:51:14 <kmc> for example if a certain frequency is active at the same time on the same day of the week, every week, it's probably a scheduled "net"
02:51:18 <kmc> which I may not already know about
02:51:27 <kmc> I can already scan the whole spectrum with one of my other radios, but it doesn't log anything
02:51:52 <kmc> a typical FM scanner has a much better way of identifying frequencies in use
02:51:59 <kmc> noise squelch
02:52:25 <kmc> rather than just looking at the RF power, it demodulates the signal into audio and then looks at the high frequency (super-audible) components
02:52:46 <kmc> if those components have a lot of energy, it indicates that you're picking up static
02:53:11 <kmc> in terms of the original signal, it is looking for a strong carrier whose frequency is not varying too quickly
02:53:30 <b_jonas> but wouldn't that be slower in scanning the spectrum?
02:53:45 <b_jonas> could it miss broadcasts that are active only for shorter times, to transmit short messages?
02:54:28 <b_jonas> I gtg soon, but good luck, find useful channels
02:54:35 <oerjan> <ais523> presumably at some point the hard disk ends up full [...] <-- as i recall from last time i ran a memory-slurping haskell program without thinking, my windows has some swap size limit
02:54:45 <kmc> b_jonas: yes, it's slower
02:55:09 <kmc> although, you could maybe do it quickly with an SDR
02:55:16 <kmc> if you can do a lot of FM demodulation in parallel
02:55:25 <kmc> anyway that's much more towards the hard signal processing side of things
02:55:31 <kmc> and right now I'm looking for a rough statistical approach
02:56:02 <b_jonas> yeah, GPS magic and sparse fourier transformas
02:58:40 <b_jonas> and electronics magic, like you explained
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03:05:52 <zzo38> I do know how to format a ARRL radiogram message.
03:12:04 <kmc> zzo38: cool
03:12:08 <kmc> are you / have you been a licensed ham?
03:13:38 <esowiki> [[ALLSCII]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60231&oldid=60226 * Cortex * (+1561)
03:16:30 <HackEso> Phantom Michael Hoover is a true Scotsman, hatheist, and completely out of the loop.
03:17:02 <zzo38> No, but I do know how to format the message. A few fields must be filled in by the radio operator, although I can fill in everything else, if someone else can send it. (I have no need to write a ARRL radiogram message now, but I can write one if needed)
03:20:20 <esowiki> [[ALLSCII]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60232&oldid=60231 * Cortex * (+104)
03:21:30 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60233&oldid=60160 * Cortex * (+14)
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04:02:20 <kmc> zzo38: I haven't learned morse code yet, but I'm working on it
04:02:23 <kmc> it seems like a good thing to know
04:02:41 <kmc> you can communicate with very weak radio signals, and it's also applicable to many things besides radio
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04:47:09 <zzo38> A chess variant called "Hexabeast" has English rules, Chinese pieces, and Latin notation. (The reason for the Latin notation is that the name of each piece starts with a different letter if they are written in Latin, but this is not the case in English, and of course the Chinese names are not ASCII.)
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04:55:51 <salpynx> I missed the Works in Progress discussion earlier, but there is already a https://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Works-in-Progress category that I thought (perhaps mistakenly) was official.
04:56:40 <salpynx> I was going to add a 'see also' on the other page, but maybe that won't help clear the confusion
04:58:09 <zzo38> I don't know if it is official
05:00:05 <ais523> I don't think it's official
05:02:09 <salpynx> Now I look at the other langs on that list it does not look official, a couple of users had added multiple languages to it and it has swept in a few others along the way
05:07:12 <salpynx> It's used in a template here: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Template:WIP just figured out why I used it on one of my languages
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06:16:37 <orin> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA3_YKCW2LU
07:12:08 <oerjan> the situation in girl genius seems to be turning tense
07:12:22 <oerjan> but at least the guy uses pronouns properly
07:15:34 <HackEso> 1/2:boorjan//boorjan is oerjan's uneducated twin. \ adjective//Adjectives are words frequently found attached to chickens. \ cgi//CGI stands for uh... C, goblin, interface? \ remavas//Remavas is a revolution in human biology. He's cofriends with oerjan. He's apparently from Frankfurt, Germany, but he's actually from Mars. His typing skills are so incredibly bad, some say he writes in a different orthography designed for a different language. \ res
07:15:38 <HackEso> 2/2:taurant//A restaurant is a type of transactional resource-distributing system powered by lazy evaluation.
07:15:52 <shachaf> would you look at that. how unexpected.
07:16:49 <HackEso> funpuns fceƀ fbz fryyrev naq pbfcynlf Arcrgn Yrvwba ba jrrxraqf. Ur ungrf oryy crccref jvgu n cnffvba. Gur havg bs sha chaarel vf anzrq nsgre uvz.
07:17:10 <HackEso> /hackenv/bin/`: line 5: rot3: command not found
07:17:12 <HackEso> shachaf sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. The unit of fun punnery is named after him.
07:17:28 <HackEso> Queen Shachaf of the Dawn sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. He doesn't know when to stop asking questions.
07:18:23 <HackEso> kmc did not run the International Devious Code Contest of 2013.
07:18:31 <HackEso> zzo38 is not actually the next version of fungot, much as it may seem.
07:19:16 <int-e> `` echo -n $(cat wisdom/shachaf) The unit of fun punnery is named after him. | rot13 > wisdom/funpuns
07:19:27 <int-e> ... hmm should have used tee
07:19:31 <int-e> `` cat wisdom/funpuns
07:19:32 <HackEso> Dhrra Funpuns bs gur Qnja fceƀ fbz fryyrev naq pbfcynlf Arcrgn Yrvwba ba jrrxraqf. Ur ungrf oryy crccref jvgu n cnffvba. Ur qbrfa'g xabj jura gb fgbc nfxvat dhrfgvbaf. Gur havg bs sha chaarel vf anzrq nsgre uvz.
07:24:46 <shachaf> Hmm, can you send two files to diff on stdin?
07:24:55 <shachaf> You can do it interactively, with diff - /dev/stdin and ^D
07:25:12 <shachaf> But can you do (foo; eof; bar) somehow?
07:26:18 <shachaf> `` cat wisdom/funpuns | rot13 | cmp wisdom/shachaf -
07:26:19 <HackEso> wisdom/shachaf - differ: byte 169, line 1
07:26:26 <int-e> Hmm, no. But you can use <(...) to good effect.
07:27:35 <shachaf> Is it really a thing you can only do interactively?
07:27:46 <shachaf> No way to make a read of size 0 happen?
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07:30:52 <kmc> <(...) is too good
07:33:29 <shachaf> you are addicted to calling things too good
07:36:42 <HackEso> TG is short for Turing-Gödel, the highest possible level of difficulty for a multiplayer game. At this level, it's undecidable whether you can manage to halt before losing or not.
07:37:00 <shachaf> what about Superturing-Gödel
07:37:05 <shachaf> is superturing a superhero
07:37:26 <int-e> `` diff -u0 <(< wisdom/shachaf fmt -1) <(< wisdom/funpuns rot13 | fmt -1)
07:37:27 <HackEso> --- /dev/fd/632019-03-04 07:37:26.716895926 +0000 \ +++ /dev/fd/622019-03-04 07:37:26.636894902 +0000 \ @@ -29,0 +30,9 @@ \ +The \ +unit \ +of \ +fun \ +punnery \ +is \ +named \ +after \ +him.
07:37:29 <int-e> `` diff -u0 <(< wisdom/shachaf fmt -1) <(< wisdom/funpuns rot13 | fmt -1) | cat
07:38:42 <int-e> Why does piping the result of diff to another command cause the output to become empty?
07:40:44 <oerjan> `run diff -u0 <(< wisdom/shachaf fmt -1) <(< wisdom/funpuns rot13 | fmt -1)
07:40:45 <HackEso> --- /dev/fd/632019-03-04 07:40:45.256264591 +0000 \ +++ /dev/fd/622019-03-04 07:40:45.266264719 +0000 \ @@ -29,0 +30,9 @@ \ +The \ +unit \ +of \ +fun \ +punnery \ +is \ +named \ +after \ +him.
07:40:50 <oerjan> `run diff -u0 <(< wisdom/shachaf fmt -1) <(< wisdom/funpuns rot13 | fmt -1) | cat
07:45:13 <oerjan> `` diff -u0 <(< wisdom/shachaf fmt -1) <(< wisdom/funpuns rot13 | fmt -1) | cat -v
07:45:14 <HackEso> --- /dev/fd/632019-03-04 07:45:14.229664713 +0000 \ +++ /dev/fd/622019-03-04 07:45:14.229664713 +0000 \ @@ -29,0 +30,9 @@ \ +The \ +unit \ +of \ +fun \ +punnery \ +is \ +named \ +after \ +him.
07:46:27 <shachaf> oerjan: Why did that work?
07:46:32 <shachaf> `` diff -u0 <(< wisdom/shachaf fmt -1) <(< wisdom/funpuns rot13 | fmt -1) | cat -v
07:46:58 <shachaf> `` diff -u0 <(< wisdom/shachaf fmt -1) <(< wisdom/funpuns rot13 | fmt -1) | cat; echo $?
07:47:08 <oerjan> `` diff -u0 <(< wisdom/shachaf fmt -1) <(< wisdom/funpuns rot13 | fmt -1) | cat -A
07:47:22 <shachaf> `` diff -u0 <(< wisdom/shachaf fmt -1) <(< wisdom/funpuns rot13 | fmt -1) | cat; echo hi >&2
07:47:58 <oerjan> `` diff -u0 <(< wisdom/shachaf fmt -1) <(< wisdom/funpuns rot13 | fmt -1) | hexdump
07:48:39 <shachaf> nothing you do will do anything hth
07:48:47 <shachaf> it's nondeterministic too. terminating the thing for some reason.
07:49:13 <oerjan> `` diff -u0 <(< wisdom/shachaf fmt -1) <(< wisdom/funpuns rot13 | fmt -1) | cat -v
07:49:40 <oerjan> `` diff -u0 <(< wisdom/shachaf fmt -1) <(< wisdom/funpuns rot13 | fmt -1) </dev/null | cat
07:50:14 <shachaf> `` strace -o tmp/trace diff -u0 <(< wisdom/shachaf fmt -1) <(< wisdom/funpuns rot13 | fmt -1) | cat
07:50:15 <HackEso> /hackenv/bin/`: line 5: strace: command not found
07:50:55 <kmc> diffs of diffs are the best
07:51:24 <shachaf> kmc: imo can you make an infinity-category out of it
07:51:45 <kmc> i was wondering
07:51:47 <kmc> and, probably
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07:56:18 <esowiki> [[ALLSCII]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60234&oldid=60232 * Cortex * (+37)
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08:07:50 <esowiki> [[ALLSCII]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60235&oldid=60234 * Cortex * (+160)
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09:21:10 <Taneb> Something I was thinking over the weekend:
09:22:00 <Taneb> The category of monoids and monoid homomorphisms, and the category of abelian groups and group homomorphisms, both have an internal hom functor
09:24:39 <Taneb> Monoid homormorphisms form a monoid pointwise, with (f<>g)(a) = f(a)<>g(a)
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09:27:09 <Taneb> If we extend this to groups, and take f^-1(a) = f(a)^-1, we get f(a<>b)^-1 = f^-1(a<>b) = f^-1(a)<>f^-1(b) (by the fact it's a homomorphism) = f(a)^-1<>f(b)^-1, but this is only true in general when the codomain is abelian
09:29:09 <Taneb> Of course, this isn't actually a proof of my original statement, just that what to me is the obvious formulation fails for Grp
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13:01:09 <esowiki> [[Multiply]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60236 * A * (+354) Created page with "=Syntax= <pre> This programming language only implements multiplication. It uses only 3 values: x as -3, y as -2, and z as -1. Whitespace means multiplication. </pre> =Example..."
13:02:42 <esowiki> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60237&oldid=60080 * A * (+71) /* General languages */
13:05:13 <esowiki> [[Multiply]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60238&oldid=60236 * A * (+30) /* Examples */
13:05:30 <esowiki> [[Multiply]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60239&oldid=60238 * A * (+30) /* Examples */
13:06:11 <esowiki> [[Multiply]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60240&oldid=60239 * A * (+33) /* Examples */
13:06:29 <esowiki> [[Multiply]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60241&oldid=60240 * A * (-1) /* Examples */
13:09:15 <esowiki> [[Multiply]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60242&oldid=60241 * A * (+202)
13:12:50 <esowiki> [[Multiply]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60243&oldid=60242 * A * (+373) /* Implementation */
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13:13:03 <esowiki> [[Multiply]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60244&oldid=60243 * A * (+13) /* Implementation */
13:13:24 <esowiki> [[Multiply]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60245&oldid=60244 * A * (+13)
13:15:14 <esowiki> [[Multiply]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60246&oldid=60245 * A * (+63)
13:35:21 <esowiki> [[SPADE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60247&oldid=59400 * A * (+40)
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16:29:12 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Erwijet * New user account
16:34:45 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60248&oldid=60217 * Erwijet * (+227) Introduced myself
16:35:46 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60249&oldid=60248 * Erwijet * (+0) Fixed a spelling issue on my name
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16:59:39 <fizzie> Taneb: You'd probably know -- what's there to see and do in Hexham?
17:00:17 <Taneb> fizzie: the Abbey's worth a visit, the Old Gaol is a history museum, there's some little art galleries dotted about, a theatre, a cinema
17:01:39 <fizzie> I might stop by sometime in the summer. It's on the way, and it's got all that #esoteric glamour.
17:02:26 <HackEso> english channel \ fentimans \ ham \ helsinki \ hexchat \ hexham \ wegian
17:02:59 <Taneb> There's a bus that goes to a bunch of old Roman sites as well
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17:16:50 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60250&oldid=59396 * Erwijet * (+139) Added an interpreter
17:21:04 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60251&oldid=60250 * Erwijet * (-7) Fixed formatting
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17:22:58 <fizzie> Taneb: The old Roman sites are kind of the thing Hexham is on the way to, though I think we might rent a car.
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18:46:20 <zzo38> Game of XYZABCDE Part II is not much yet (I have to think of what rooms to add, and that part is difficult to think of, I think), but nevertheless is possible to download to see so far: http://zzo38computer.org/xyzabcde/2.zip
18:46:38 <zzo38> Type VERBS for a list of verbs (there are a few hidden verbs which are not listed here).
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19:01:13 <zzo38> (You can also make suggestions/questions/complaints if you have any, I suppose.)
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19:15:00 <b_jonas> zzo38: if you want esoteric people to try text adventures, you can try to wire them up to IRC so they play on channel (or on #esoteric-blah if it gets annoying), with HackEso or with a custom bot.
19:17:01 <zzo38> I don't know if there is a such thing as IRC-Glk, but perhaps it can be written if it does not yet exist. (Yet, if you want to test the status window, then that won't work with IRC-Glk.)
19:17:21 <b_jonas> oh, you need a status window? that's more difficult then
19:17:22 <zzo38> (I do not have time right now, but you can try, and/or perhaps later I can try.)
19:17:45 <zzo38> The game doesn't need a status window; it can work without. However, the status window can be helpful.
19:23:01 <rain1> could /topic be the status bar
19:23:30 <zzo38> It is a text grid window of more than one line in this game
19:35:17 <b_jonas> "The reason for the Latin notation is that the name of each piece starts with a different letter if they are written in Latin, but this is not the case in English" => like a king and a knight in chess or tarot?
19:35:57 <HackEso> Adjectives are words frequently found attached to chickens.
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20:37:55 <esowiki> [[ALLSCII]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60252&oldid=60235 * Cortex * (+123)
20:45:07 <esowiki> [[ALLSCII]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60253&oldid=60252 * Cortex * (+39)
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21:35:48 <kmc> b_jonas: that text adventure bot is a good idea
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23:07:54 <moony_> https://github.com/Globidev/corewa-rs https://glo.bi/corewar/ someone made their own corewars
23:09:23 <moony_> favorite part from what i've looked at is it's usage of less abstract opcodes
23:09:37 <moony_> meaning really fun(tm) tactics like rewriting the opponent are possible
23:25:53 <fizzie> At least just on a glance, it doesn't look *that* different from regular Redcode.
23:27:35 <fizzie> I mean, the field stuff is a little abstract, I guess, but you can definitely rewrite your opponent there too.
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