< 1552090106 515113 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1552090255 276186 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1552090447 406412 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1552090534 858004 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1552091259 828050 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pfdpozcgzdzakphq QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1552091348 424693 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1552091437 964529 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1552091491 298594 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1552091955 247315 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:c4b3:df17:f65b:3fa3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1552092198 273751 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c83-253-65-195.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1552092198 357138 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c83-253-65-195.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Changing host < 1552092198 357196 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1552092240 891579 :olsner!~salparot@c193-14-197-104.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1552093303 933221 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1552093571 389461 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1552094652 256310 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1552094890 745553 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1552095607 352809 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1552095770 150806 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1552095913 357040 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :IDGI: everywhere they say that the old FreeType autohinter is not needed at all any more, with the TrueType hinting patent issues resolved, but I get just terrible-looking text (at least in urxvt, for both DejaVu Sans Mono and Inconsolata) unless I specifically ~/.config/fontconfig/fonts.conf true. < 1552096062 138673 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1552096103 670898 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also use bitmap fonts of the correct size to avoid bad hinting, I suppose (since then, hinting is unnecessary). But, is there a possibility to edit TrueType fonts to change the hinting for each one if needed? < 1552096272 483231 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I suppose, but these are well-regarded fonts that should have "better-than-autohinter" hinting information already included. Either that's not the case, or there's something wrong in my setup that the font driver isn't using that. < 1552096393 715730 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, OK, well then if the included hinting doesn't work then set the old autohint mode I suppose is good. Does it have the ability to set it conditionally based on the font size? < 1552096489 407242 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's possible to condition on size. And the autohint=true is acceptable, I'm just confused because in a lot of places over the internet people keep saying "you should set autohint=false, it's worse". < 1552096504 616106 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1552096605 810940 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to implement the FreeType autohint code in the TrueType VM code? < 1552096725 881730 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That, I don't know. But FreeType have published a piece of software (ttfautohint) to essentially run the FreeType autohint on a font, manually fine-tune some aspects, and write that into the TTF hinting information. < 1552096746 26136 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For printer fints, I think METAFONT works well and it is possible to do hinting.) < 1552097336 726137 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1552097717 555609 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1552099365 611557 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1552099607 328649 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1552100055 285811 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c83-253-68-170.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1552100055 368967 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c83-253-68-170.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Changing host < 1552100055 369024 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1552101685 303880 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1552102284 242010 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1552102552 217943 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1552102970 645025 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1552104077 123929 :orby!44215da7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.167 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1552104862 120732 :orby!44215da7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.167 JOIN :#esoteric < 1552105171 297794 :moony__!~moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1552105196 71959 :moony__!~moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric > 1552107083 567814 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Post Dominos14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60330 5* 03Orby 5* (+1625) 10Introducing Post Dominos < 1552108428 966263 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1552108544 662720 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone wanna help me write a low-level language like webassembly but called something else, and write patches for chrome and firefox and convince game developers to use it? < 1552108650 804190 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not so sure about patches for Chrome and Firefox, but perhaps a standalone program can be written to execute the codes < 1552108763 276730 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1552108783 275179 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu, what's the improvement over webassembly? < 1552108797 975972 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :getting developers to switch is a really hard thing to do < 1552108887 99521 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is the other question; what differences from WebAssembly are they? < 1552109027 294980 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1552109153 407040 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1552109721 697790 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be the MMIX instructions set < 1552109731 349734 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the improvement would be more lulz < 1552109985 459405 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that knuth's version is kind of ancient and the gnu version is hard to use < 1552111498 969211 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1552111667 280484 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1552112535 760735 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :MMIX is OK, I think < 1552112546 914455 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And, there is the implementation, too) < 1552112936 392299 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1552113341 744641 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote the change file called "extext.ch" which can be used to support other system calls than the built-in ones. < 1552113969 117921 :Abcdef!05452f18@gateway/web/freenode/ip.5.69.47.24 JOIN :#esoteric < 1552114003 616160 :Abcdef!05452f18@gateway/web/freenode/ip.5.69.47.24 QUIT :Client Quit < 1552114014 652566 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZZT allows duplicate labels, and has #ZAP and #RESTORE commands, which cause all jumps to one label with that name to jump to another label with the same name instead. < 1552114029 117455 :Cs_Acat!05452f18@gateway/web/freenode/ip.5.69.47.24 JOIN :#esoteric < 1552114070 493368 :Cs_Acat!05452f18@gateway/web/freenode/ip.5.69.47.24 QUIT :Client Quit < 1552114450 341742 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving. > 1552114546 457079 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03CrazySqueak 5* 10New user account > 1552114958 444357 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60331&oldid=60324 5* 03CrazySqueak 5* (+220) 10/* Introductions */ < 1552115246 262575 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1552115502 71442 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds > 1552115733 601881 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Binary lambda calculus14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60332&oldid=51637 5* 03Zzo38 5* (+312) 10 > 1552118429 741069 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Post Dominos14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60333&oldid=60330 5* 03Oerjan 5* (-3) 10/* See also */ Use proper name of /// < 1552118666 395278 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1552119123 726070 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Headshot!14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60334 5* 03CrazySqueak 5* (+5946) 10Entry for a language I'm developing. < 1552119327 83037 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds > 1552119342 813946 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60335&oldid=60282 5* 03CrazySqueak 5* (+16) 10Added Headshot! (a language I'm developing) to the list. > 1552119383 956591 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Headshot!14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60336&oldid=60334 5* 03CrazySqueak 5* (-5) 10 > 1552120148 787830 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hellborne14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60337&oldid=46957 5* 03CrazySqueak 5* (+1) 10Fixed a spelling mistake ("Fliping" -> "Flipping") < 1552120315 495666 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that completely flipes the meaning... < 1552126357 118363 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1552127085 142215 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1552127490 668630 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1552127919 225143 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1552128411 630946 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1552129270 254563 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-167.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1552133549 774070 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1552133781 153015 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1552134573 337401 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1552134653 389749 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1552134719 510288 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life > 1552135504 272677 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Post Dominos14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60338&oldid=60333 5* 03Orby 5* (+9) 10Adjusting notation to match interpreter < 1552135895 270036 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.237.233 JOIN :#esoteric > 1552136903 198792 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Post Dominos14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60339&oldid=60338 5* 03Orby 5* (+2) 10Fixing typo < 1552137567 79961 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric > 1552138477 987758 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:CrazySqueak14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60340 5* 03CrazySqueak 5* (+149) 10Created. > 1552142063 470990 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Post Dominos14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60341&oldid=60339 5* 03Orby 5* (+356) 10 > 1552143125 984843 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Headshot!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60342&oldid=60336 5* 03CrazySqueak 5* (+932) 10Headshot! now has conditionals and iteration through the 'label', 'goto', and 'cgoto' commands. Also added truth machine example. < 1552143149 270443 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ligeqjiwkyhjgpwk JOIN :#esoteric > 1552143416 874824 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60343&oldid=60303 5* 03A 5* (-29) 10 > 1552143549 987558 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60344&oldid=60343 5* 03A 5* (+32) 10 > 1552143563 39157 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60345&oldid=60344 5* 03A 5* (-2) 10 > 1552144476 452888 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bucket14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60346 5* 03A 5* (+383) 10Created page with "[[Bucket]] is a series of programming languages involving 3 basic operations. A derivative can be described using the tuple (a,b), where a<=b. What you can do is: * Empty the..." > 1552144748 519973 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bucket14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60347&oldid=60346 5* 03A 5* (+688) 10 < 1552145186 372740 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1552147222 286361 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.30.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1552147378 277244 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.237.233 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1552148010 297854 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1552149971 266347 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1552150525 260140 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1552150525 341189 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1552150525 341258 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1552150564 118379 :CrazySqueak!05452f18@gateway/web/freenode/ip.5.69.47.24 JOIN :#esoteric < 1552150647 755914 :CrazySqueak!05452f18@gateway/web/freenode/ip.5.69.47.24 QUIT :Client Quit > 1552151547 637552 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TOD14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60348&oldid=53949 5* 03Null 5* (+86) 10 < 1552153899 235781 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.30.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru NICK :arseniiv > 1552154348 325060 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Post Dominos14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60349&oldid=60341 5* 03Orby 5* (-132) 10/* Canonical programs */ Updating with interpreter behvaior < 1552154431 122001 :orby!44215da7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.167 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1552155572 298288 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1552155778 219340 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1552158668 272426 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1552160395 280964 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60350&oldid=60327 5* 03Cortex 5* (+130) 10 < 1552162117 119856 :orby!44215932@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.89.50 JOIN :#esoteric > 1552162133 681358 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Interfrac14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60351 5* 03Orby 5* (+1275) 10Created page with "Interfrac is a declarative esolang. It was discovered by [[User:Orby]] in 1994. ==Introduction== In 1994, at the tender age of ten, I made a startling discovery about fractio..." > 1552162172 747662 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Orby14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60352&oldid=60308 5* 03Orby 5* (+73) 10 < 1552162273 273816 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric > 1552162476 352682 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Interfrac14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60353&oldid=60351 5* 03Orby 5* (+60) 10/* See also */ < 1552163057 759833 :moony__!~moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1552163122 904718 :moony__!~moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric < 1552163747 127953 :orby!44215932@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.89.50 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds > 1552163759 712454 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Interfrac14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60354&oldid=60353 5* 03Orby 5* (+315) 10/* Examples */ Adding more examples < 1552163793 119266 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1552164494 780604 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1552164992 6748 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric > 1552165241 565700 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Interfrac14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60355 5* 03Ais523 5* (+456) 10this might be more interesting than it looks? > 1552165483 308684 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Interfrac14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60356&oldid=60355 5* 03Orby 5* (+254) 10 > 1552165741 876339 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Interfrac14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60357&oldid=60354 5* 03Ais523 5* (+638) 10implementation (other than parsing/syntax) < 1552166484 242742 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1552168484 820653 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1552168550 860935 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interfrac is really interesting < 1552168561 488852 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm leaning towards it being sub-TC, but it's hard to prove that < 1552168662 702613 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you restrict the number of times each fraction is used to being a power of n for some n, you can solve it in an amount of space that depends only on the program (not the size of the input), which proves that that variation of the language is sub-TC, but there's no obvious reason this would generalize to the language without that restriction < 1552169025 181891 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey ais523! Yeah, I've been struggling with the TC question too. If it is TC, I think mapping it to the PCP might be the most straight forward way of proving it. < 1552169069 479483 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I was thinking along the power-of-n lines < 1552169087 10890 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh, I see where you're coming from. that's interesting < 1552169102 628295 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think it works, because the left and right strings of a Post domino can have an arbitrary shift between them, whereas in Interfrac the shift would have to be the same for the two < 1552169122 595929 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more like But Is It Art? than the PCP, but it can't implement that for the same reason (the power-of-n thing) < 1552169170 632612 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me catch up on BIIA. I've looked at it before, but not in a long time. < 1552169213 710836 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been thinking about implementing some sort of cracked out push down automaton for the purposes of proving things sub TC < 1552169259 516493 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea being that you compile the sub-TC languages into it? < 1552169318 534532 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, exactly < 1552169346 894649 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you implement an interpreter in the push down automaton for a language with a questionable computational class < 1552169347 998828 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/BuzzFizz was created for a very similar purpose, but I'm not sure it's a perfect fit for this < 1552169405 650846 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice, good idea :) < 1552169409 879664 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I certainly can't see a way to implement Interfrac in it < 1552169439 653585 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, no neither do I < 1552169558 964415 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe oerjan will have an idea if he comes along < 1552169693 646318 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interfrac reduces to integer linear programming, I'd think. (The + is addition of 2D vectors of integers.) < 1552169764 251128 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that it's decidadble whether, in Interfrac, there's /some/ input that will work < 1552169815 144612 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take the -2/5, 1/-7, 1/-3, 1/-2 program; introduce a variable for how often each vector is added: a,b,c,d; then n is accapted if -2a+b+c+d = n and 5a-7b-3c-2d = n, where a,b,c,d >= 0 and a+b+c+d > 1. < 1552169862 588244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have two fractions a/b, c/d with a>b and cb and c1 or every fraction is <1 and thus it's obvious that the two sides can't balance < 1552169924 673403 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, the introduction of the input makes things much more complex < 1552169927 427002 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think there's enough theory to compute the set of all n that have solutions as well; it should be ultimately periodic, but hmm... details. < 1552169975 344807 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: as far as I can tell from the Wikipedia article, ILP has an unknown computational class < 1552169979 704494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although it's known to be NP-hard) < 1552170021 934318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are special cases with known computational classes, though, and Interfrac may be one of them < 1552170035 63548 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't that make an interfrac program equivalent to a system of linear diophantine equations? < 1552170051 606538 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the decision problem (does a set of constraints have a solution) is NP-complete. < 1552170057 424267 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a given n < 1552170065 247180 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :orby: I think so, yes < 1552170072 579621 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: computing an optimal solution just isn't a decision problem. < 1552170111 11202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: the decision problem variant of that is "does a set of constraints have a solution with a <= k" for given k, likewise for the other variables < 1552170120 705048 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can find the optimal solution via binary search < 1552170193 267984 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not clear to be that the existance of some n for which the system has a solution is decidable, is that clear to either of you? < 1552170217 869510 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :orby: yes < 1552170240 262389 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then it's definitely sub tc because we're solving the halting problem, right? < 1552170256 770129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here is the decision algorithm: if there is a fraction with numerator ≥ denominator, and a fraction with denominator ≥ numerator, there is some input that is a solution, otherwise there is not < 1552170257 29320 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm pretty sure there's an upper bound ... looking for a reference < 1552170269 792943 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/however/, my proof doesn't work for a given input < 1552170303 823257 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for a given input, it's just a system of linear diophantine equations, which are well understood? < 1552170360 849190 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even without a given input, it's a system of linear diophantine equations < 1552170367 625001 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but without a given input, you have one equation rather than two < 1552170378 549447 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diophantine_equation#System_of_linear_Diophantine_equations < 1552170380 104839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, although it trivially collapses to one equation in either case < 1552170380 144346 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right? < 1552170403 290107 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so we have a decision algorithm for that too < 1552170411 64562 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes, decidable language, thus sub-TC < 1552170415 893807 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I think sub tc < 1552170423 107677 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the correct computational class is now almost certainly NP-complete < 1552170444 480561 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, np-complete for the subset sum problem you brought up on the talk page < 1552170477 583629 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's NP-complete for given input, you can solve it in linear time and constant space if you just want to know whether some input matches < 1552170517 133880 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right right < 1552170605 357854 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, this is interesting, now we have a known computational class but it's not any of the wiki's computational class categoriees < 1552170761 435717 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha, I broke the wiki < 1552170915 4263 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which wiki? < 1552171003 449032 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't break any wiki, I'm just kidding < 1552171072 589487 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. Sorry, I just notice that sort of thing since it usually means I need to fix something. < 1552171084 919030 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry to startle you! < 1552171153 504961 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I should update MediaWiki sometime soon anyway, though, it's been a long while. < 1552171170 171892 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Updates are good for the soul. < 1552171202 247967 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hrm I'm drawing a blank for now. In any case decidability of ILP is all we need here anyway. < 1552171250 148088 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to show that this is sub-TC) < 1552171263 100211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1552171267 567491 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1552171307 813194 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we can use things like the omega test < 1552171777 705930 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah. http://lara.epfl.ch/w/_media/papadimitriou81complexityintegerprogramming.pdf < 1552171882 983553 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ^^ found something < 1552172001 439543 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's awesome < 1552172255 470370 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun fun < 1552172487 371610 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1552173176 316074 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1552173472 546219 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1552173525 926315 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Zesterer 5* 10New user account < 1552173547 70638 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric > 1552173711 899382 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60358&oldid=60331 5* 03Zesterer 5* (+204) 10Added personal introduction > 1552173762 146113 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60359&oldid=60335 5* 03Zesterer 5* (+16) 10Added Stackfuck > 1552174914 192774 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Orby14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60360&oldid=60352 5* 03Orby 5* (+80) 10 < 1552175267 271043 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.30.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1552175726 742720 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hanoifuck14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60361 5* 03Zesterer 5* (+2105) 10Created page > 1552175873 515482 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hanoifuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60362&oldid=60361 5* 03Zesterer 5* (+312) 10 > 1552175926 59715 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hanoifuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60363&oldid=60362 5* 03Zesterer 5* (+24) 10