> 1551398401 770747 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Poolshark14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60168&oldid=60162 5* 03Orby 5* (+640) 10/* Poolshark on the unit square */ > 1551398611 578117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Poolshark14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60169&oldid=60168 5* 03Orby 5* (+6) 10/* Poolshark on the unit square */ > 1551399091 347708 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Poolshark14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60170&oldid=60169 5* 03Orby 5* (+112) 10 > 1551399170 246424 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Orby14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60171&oldid=60006 5* 03Orby 5* (+74) 10 < 1551399422 446203 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric > 1551399499 43465 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Poolshark14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60172&oldid=60170 5* 03Orby 5* (+289) 10/* Irrational slope */ > 1551399555 257405 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Poolshark14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60173&oldid=60172 5* 03Orby 5* (+10) 10/* Irrational slope */ < 1551399600 532241 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1551399600 837118 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1551399856 888208 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1551399949 548937 :orbitaldecay!44215de2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.226 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi oerjan! < 1551400064 871364 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloerjan < 1551400294 699818 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmchi < 1551400306 710980 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellorbitaldecay < 1551400330 940693 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: kimchi? < 1551400355 389025 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: you got me < 1551400363 794056 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION may never have actually tasted it < 1551400434 939715 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kimchi is tg < 1551400455 383747 :orbitaldecay!44215de2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.226 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you probably don't remember me, we played with picofuck a few years ago < 1551400465 730469 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kon oerjan wa < 1551400569 815521 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551400600 899650 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-171.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1551400939 219813 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hum i admit i don't remember. are you the same as orby on the wiki? < 1551400968 625239 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hikhq < 1551401097 376406 :orbitaldecay!44215de2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.226 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am the same as Orby on the wiki < 1551401121 243396 :orbitaldecay!44215de2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.226 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a long time ago and I have been completely abscent since then < 1551401142 47173 :orbitaldecay!44215de2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.226 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a tendency to cycle through communities every couple years :) < 1551401221 272547 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1551401239 762753 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( so you're orbiting? ) < 1551401287 742692 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if the orbit is decaying, it should be speeding up. < 1551401342 451054 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551401354 433788 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...or is the opposite also decay, like i understand the moon did before settling into always facing earth < 1551401369 609212 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with the same side) < 1551401404 176602 :orbitaldecay!44215de2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.226 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha! yes, my rate of cycling is increasing with age < 1551401415 532953 :orbitaldecay!44215de2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.226 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at my death, I will be in all communities simultaneously < 1551401480 581885 :orbitaldecay!44215de2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.226 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think there's any way to get tc out of https://esolangs.org/wiki/Poolshark ? < 1551401494 8177 :orbitaldecay!44215de2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.226 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an idea I was kicking around today < 1551401588 468638 :orbitaldecay!44215de2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.226 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's interesting, even if not tc < 1551401749 728049 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sidles over to the wiki < 1551401778 736316 :orbitaldecay!44215de2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.226 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will cry the day this wiki ceases to exist < 1551402158 75903 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: i suspect poolshark is "trivially" TC if you allow the boundary to be a suitable uncomputable curve (basically, just encode the answer you want for each program). < 1551402174 332053 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's so trivial it's not very interesting. < 1551402195 483347 :orbitaldecay!44215de2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.226 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I thought of that too, but no that is not interesting < 1551402264 11270 :orbitaldecay!44215de2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.226 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For any output it's trivial to construct a poolshark language that generates it, but the interesting question is whether or not a poolshark language exists that can generate any computable output < 1551402376 192846 :orbitaldecay!44215de2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.226 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You get neat sequences from the unit square once you start feeding it irrational numbers < 1551402417 432024 :orbitaldecay!44215de2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.226 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't understand it well enough yet to say if there's some construction that can generate arbitrary computable sequences < 1551402466 216203 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you seen trajedy? < 1551402473 233884 :orbitaldecay!44215de2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.226 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not < 1551402499 943451 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a tiny bit similar < 1551402510 491686 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is TC < 1551402519 961250 :orbitaldecay!44215de2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.226 PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading now < 1551402677 941042 :orbitaldecay!44215de2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.226 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neat! < 1551402862 944734 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, conjecture... this is TC if the boundary of D is composed of straight line and parabola segments. < 1551402945 109860 :orbitaldecay!44215de2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.226 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: hmm, can you elaborate? how would the parabola and line segment map to output? < 1551402976 148287 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also had a hunch conic sections would help < 1551402977 152712 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I want to work with state encoded in the offset of a bundlet of parallel rays; and I think two parabola segments can be used to compress or expand such a bundle, by making one of them a scaled version of the other with the scaling centered at the focal point) < 1551403061 438110 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps you could even simulate the rational transformations trajedy uses < 1551403085 454454 :orbitaldecay!44215de2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.226 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea behind poolshark comes from the field of dynamical billiards where there is a thing called a bunimovich stadium which might be useful https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamical_billiards < 1551403088 584168 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: I have not thought about output; it's really a secondary concern to my mind (if everything else fails one can just look at whether the thing halts on a particular output or not. < 1551403102 422568 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1551403132 254717 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551403161 295934 :orbitaldecay!44215de2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.226 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: right right < 1551403266 920886 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there are details to be worked out; what I have is only obviously enough for a stack machine. < 1551403313 780063 :orbitaldecay!44215de2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.226 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, this is a good start. Ixnay on the bunimovich stadium is too smooth, no halting < 1551403336 458815 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trajedy has this delicate feature that a ray passes through gaps between adjacent mirrors... is something similar possible in Poolshark? (Let D consist of two closed squares adjoint at a corner, and aim a ray directly at that corner... does the program halt there and then or does it pass through to the other side?) < 1551403369 243007 :orbitaldecay!44215de2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.226 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a good question. let me think about it for a minute. < 1551403373 275545 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: you don't need the _second_ derivative to be smooth, so... < 1551403383 498594 :orbitaldecay!44215de2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.226 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1551403390 232459 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1551403397 268143 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bgnhfclqryycswjw QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1551403410 418527 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even the first < 1551403414 392459 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah but it's too far into the night for me to wreck my brain like this... so I'm sticking to something smooth at simple :) < 1551403444 821116 :orbitaldecay!44215de2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.226 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1551403446 499714 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although hm < 1551403482 903363 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm happy that two parabolas make a linear map. I thought about using ellipses (jumping from focal point to focal point) and decided that I wouldn't want to compose the resulting nonlinear maps < 1551403511 936725 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was imagining two curves that join with the meeting point having a derivative without it being continuous... but i think that may require the limit not to exist < 1551403606 592142 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the wikipedia link worth adding to the wiki page? < 1551403616 619429 :orbitaldecay!44215de2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.226 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'll add it < 1551403657 135861 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway. I need to sleep, then work. Perhaps I'll revisit this in the evening :) > 1551403729 17395 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Poolshark14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60174&oldid=60173 5* 03Orby 5* (+139) 10 < 1551403757 392081 :orbitaldecay!44215de2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.226 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night! < 1551403782 726453 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hello orbitaldecay < 1551403783 531902 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello World. < 1551403786 422788 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1551403798 296651 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellorbitaldecay < 1551403807 101386 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ello shachaf < 1551403808 648364 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ello: not found < 1551403811 677422 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1551403821 962276 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ello hmmm < 1551403825 303246 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1551403838 834260 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dobg ello < 1551403840 705527 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :4699:2014-07-27 ` rm bin/{node,ello} \ 4071:2013-11-22 chmod +x bin/ello \ 4070:2013-11-22 mv raw.php* bin/ello \ 4068:2013-11-22 chmod +x bin/ello \ 4067:2013-11-22 mv raw.php* bin/ello \ 4058:2013-11-22 echo "(function(){var e,l,o,t;t=process.argv[2],(null!=t?t.length:void 0)||(console.log(\'Usage: ello \'),process.exit()),o=/(.*)(e)$/i,e=/(.*)([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvwxz])([o0] < 1551403842 59318 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` grep -rl aeiou bin < 1551403842 932136 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/h! \ bin/?h \ bin/thanks \ bin/hyphenate.fi \ bin/hi \ bin/blessyou \ bin/unh \ bin/?hh \ bin/shmify \ bin/h < 1551403855 296395 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`before bin/ello < 1551403859 155717 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/ello//#!/usr/bin/env node \ // Generated by CoffeeScript 1.6.2 \ (function() { \ var consonant_then_o, ell_manglable, ends_with_consonant, ends_with_consonant_then_vowel, name, starts_with_o; \ \ name = process.argv[2]; \ \ if (!(name != null ? name.length : void 0)) { \ console.log('Usage: ello '); \ process.exit(); \ } \ \ consonant_then_o = /(.*)([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvwxz])([o0].*)/i; \ \ ends_with_consonant = /[bcdfghjklmn > 1551403874 388261 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Poolshark14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60175&oldid=60174 5* 03Orby 5* (+105) 10/* See also */ < 1551403892 271893 :orbitaldecay!44215de2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.226 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey shachaf! < 1551404239 250190 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, the mean value theorem implies that if a function is differentiable in an open interval, then the derivative there must be an accumulation point of the surrounding derivatives < 1551404266 796881 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know integration of computable functions on computable reals is computable? < 1551404280 627422 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if there's a limit of derivatives toward a point, it must be the derivative there if it exists < 1551404287 594403 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard that it was possible but didn't know how it worked. < 1551404470 952238 :orbitaldecay!44215de2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.226 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm with you < 1551404516 834277 :orbitaldecay!44215de2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.226 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's interesting shachaf < 1551404525 861631 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: which means you cannot really have a single exceptional but non-halting point at the meeting of two parabolas < 1551404539 757362 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit trickier than it seems at first. < 1551404560 718183 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In particular you can bound a computable function : [0,1] -> R < 1551404615 92060 :orbitaldecay!44215de2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.226 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that makes sense < 1551404630 799488 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the trickiness i see is, what if it blows up when you get close to a _non_-computable point? < 1551404657 774201 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you mean? < 1551404724 260741 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you want to confirm it's bounded i'd imagine you'd want to cover [0,1] by intervals where it can be approximated in each < 1551404739 579020 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how do you know those cover everything, even non-computable points? < 1551404742 725493 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, all functions are bounded. < 1551404751 603103 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(On a closed interval.) < 1551404764 505455 :orbitaldecay!44215de2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.226 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was waiting for that :) < 1551404815 128750 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know computable functions are supposedly automatically continuous < 1551404828 109520 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it occurs to me that that's only obvious at computable argument points < 1551404938 471892 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But f is a function on computable reals < 1551405063 749555 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but not having it on non-computable points means you cannot apply the classical boundedness theorems directly > 1551405088 351106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Poolshark14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60176&oldid=60175 5* 03Orby 5* (+13) 10/* Slope of 1 */ making clear what is not < 1551405126 906710 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess what i'm saying then is that i don't see why they're automatically bounded, in that case < 1551405167 316486 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it wasn't obvious to me that you can compute the bounds. < 1551405207 463075 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In particular it seemed like if you can just sample f at different points to different precisions, that doesn't tell you whether it blows up somewhere else. < 1551405217 415371 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but it's not obvious to me that they even exist non-constructively < 1551405448 73336 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i suppose you'd compute in parallel < 1551405476 376446 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then if things blow up, you'd show you somehow get a constructive counterexample out of it < 1551405548 721853 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :see https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/d739/04971c7e9cd54f5fc12a054feda0ef74b0ba.pdf hth < 1551405554 268381 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1551405562 121760 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't even need to be parallel? < 1551405803 750064 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'll be the second math paper i give up reading this week hth < 1551405833 977120 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :my brain doesn't have the stamina for wading through long technical stuff any longer < 1551405854 310567 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway one of the things is, when you ask f for the value of f(x) to some precision, it asks you about the value of x to some precision(s). < 1551405880 194215 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you know how much precision it asked you for, which you can use for this. < 1551405893 406721 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that part i actually understood < 1551405898 622983 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1551405990 171450 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if f is actually defined on non-computable computable real numbers :P then that is enough. < 1551405998 276702 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the bound to exit < 1551406001 550165 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*exist > 1551406006 555020 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Poolshark14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60177&oldid=60176 5* 03Orby 5* (+0) 10/* See also */ < 1551406041 391711 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rorexqikhediwnmt QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1551406108 652336 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by which i mean, functions from precision to approximation that are not actually computable) < 1551406134 491723 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1551406155 893272 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think those are just called reals, though, not computable reals. < 1551406166 303201 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1551408424 820268 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551408700 843506 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1551408702 8751 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know you can define typedefs to function types in C? < 1551408713 610747 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :typedef int foo(int, int); > 1551408996 445356 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60178&oldid=60158 5* 03Orangeyy 5* (+246) 10 > 1551409185 922756 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60179&oldid=60178 5* 03Orangeyy 5* (+83) 10 > 1551409459 674941 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Timtomtoaster14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60180&oldid=60165 5* 03Orangeyy 5* (+27) 10 > 1551409468 442792 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Timtomtoaster14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60181&oldid=60180 5* 03Orangeyy 5* (+1) 10 < 1551409669 887271 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, I've never understood why APIs tend to use typedefs of pointers to functions rather than the function types. < 1551409730 282663 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`typedef void sighandler_t(int); sighandler_t *signal(int signum, sighandler_t *handler);` would be so much better than `typedef void (*sighandler_t)(int); sighandler_t signal(int signum, sighandler_t handler);` < 1551409730 892161 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: typedef: not found < 1551409759 182575 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes sense. < 1551409763 94446 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be even gooder if you could use the function typedef to define functions, but I guess that's complicated re parameter names. < 1551409787 998373 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing you can use them for declarations that aren't a definition, though. < 1551409828 664831 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently. < 1551409850 611498 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i,i sighandler_t sig_ign; > 1551410002 950685 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Orangeyy14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60182 5* 03Orangeyy 5* (+103) 10Created page with "Some kid who can kinda program Formerly [[User:Timtomtoaster]]. I might make something new eventually." < 1551410428 233457 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1551410613 117313 :orbitaldecay!44215de2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.226 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds > 1551412674 490883 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60183&oldid=60179 5* 03Oerjan 5* (-2) 10wut < 1551412691 740397 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :esowiki: you lost my pun tdnh < 1551414438 21566 :aloril_!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a1c-218.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551414727 76306 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1551414901 525645 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551414956 294685 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a1c-218.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1551415174 419848 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1551418195 687485 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a1c-218.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551418385 747963 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a1c-218.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1551418979 254580 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.232.59 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551421393 241087 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551421660 218147 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1551424552 339616 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure if moloch von zinzer had been there, he'd have wondered how none of them expected this. < 1551425291 462694 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe the jägers did < 1551426102 398926 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1551426125 369892 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1551427024 261016 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551428548 227094 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@46.191.232.59 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1551428801 294286 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.200.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551428956 624217 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1551429469 2993 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bjjokgdlgngcjxym JOIN :#esoteric < 1551430158 140434 :orbitaldecay!442158fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.88.254 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551430979 118970 :orbitaldecay!442158fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.88.254 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1551431659 655879 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric > 1551434843 552652 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60184&oldid=60167 5* 03A 5* (+160) 10/* Continuation on the above by User:A */ > 1551434912 710965 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60185&oldid=60184 5* 03A 5* (-38) 10/* Attempt by User:A */ > 1551437109 840470 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60186&oldid=60185 5* 03A 5* (+293) 10/* Tail procedure */ < 1551437249 791551 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bjjokgdlgngcjxym QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1551437273 266287 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60187&oldid=60186 5* 03A 5* (+94) 10/* Tail procedure */ > 1551437385 448622 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60188&oldid=60187 5* 03A 5* (+177) 10/* =Bit comparison */ > 1551438170 796056 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60189&oldid=60188 5* 03A 5* (-191) 10 > 1551438406 290331 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60190&oldid=60189 5* 03A 5* (+27) 10This is Turing complete if only bits are neccesary for Turing completeness. > 1551438419 86995 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60191&oldid=60190 5* 03A 5* (+2) 10/* References */ > 1551438454 114042 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60192&oldid=60191 5* 03A 5* (+40) 10/* Continuation on the above by User:A */ > 1551438570 837280 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60193&oldid=60192 5* 03A 5* (+7) 10/* References */ < 1551440427 425460 :AnnaSeo!~uh@ppp-94-69-229-11.home.otenet.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1551442694 353980 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551442826 425364 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1551442826 749908 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1551444198 566377 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1551445266 488062 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-btfizbesorwyvoae JOIN :#esoteric < 1551445842 675664 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1551446520 14411 :AnnaSeo!~uh@ppp-94-69-229-11.home.otenet.gr QUIT :Quit: i just need to know if you are a man < 1551447247 393946 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1551449243 124330 :orbitaldecay!44215aa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.166 JOIN :#esoteric > 1551449422 163225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60194&oldid=60193 5* 03A 5* (+77) 10/* References */ < 1551450213 397401 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551450229 263750 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ello < 1551450230 385588 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ello? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1551450232 927523 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? `ello < 1551450234 173445 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`ello? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1551454261 448586 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1551455487 460952 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551459478 307038 :mniip!mniip@freenode/staff/mniip QUIT :Ping timeout: 600 seconds < 1551459538 637383 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dgsxzfsnaeolhzrf JOIN :#esoteric < 1551460436 353916 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1551460582 96350 :mniip!mniip@freenode/staff/mniip JOIN :#esoteric < 1551460589 487686 :vertrex!~vertrex@unaffiliated/vertrex QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1551460600 388074 :vertrex!~vertrex@digital-forensic.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1551460600 468955 :vertrex!~vertrex@digital-forensic.org QUIT :Changing host < 1551460600 469002 :vertrex!~vertrex@unaffiliated/vertrex JOIN :#esoteric < 1551461012 856934 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551462170 474200 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1551462454 59777 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00a9f5486ae16462d2.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1551462809 245785 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551462908 132432 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551462967 839571 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551463312 722577 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1551463891 308681 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00a9f5486ae16462d2.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551465048 259420 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1551465618 998905 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Caeos14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60195&oldid=60161 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+2) 10 < 1551466310 959876 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-82.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1551466327 449648 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551466328 281392 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: aww esowiki does not allow svg? > 1551466434 665810 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Int-e 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:Sharkscale.png10]]": scaling a shark < 1551466680 758698 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric > 1551466754 433593 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Poolshark14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60197 5* 03Int-e 5* (+206) 10scaling sharks < 1551466989 893546 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does "git rebase so slow" < 1551467016 317630 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, why does git "rebase" so slowly < 1551467213 717504 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00fc578b5afd0db9e6.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1551468191 450553 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you rebasing past a lot of commits? < 1551468200 801706 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it essentially has to apply each diff one by one < 1551468505 12540 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it would be nice if it had a loading bar then < 1551468536 223839 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rewinding head... 222/123123 < 1551468538 209004 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's probably an obscure flag for it < 1551468541 755862 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or somehitng < 1551468547 571563 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah if you want to rebase past 100,000 commits you're gonna have a bad time < 1551468568 495987 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: some people run their git repo on a ramdisk for faster operations < 1551468573 189618 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not found an improvement that way < 1551468578 103182 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Git is not terribly optimized < 1551468585 516235 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of it is shell scripts or used to be < 1551468616 567110 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a shame so many people have settled on git when there are plenty of improvements to be made in version control < 1551468749 549966 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1157 < 1551468750 237394 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1157: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas < 1551468872 213525 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.200.33 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1551469092 858290 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-82.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooo > 1551469327 758185 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Int-e 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:Magicsharkmirror.png10]]": magic mirror for directing sharks < 1551469524 749865 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Not by intention, just by accident. < 1551469539 442155 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: From a quick glance, it's just that it's not an enabled-by-default MediaWiki feature. < 1551469605 857134 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd probably be possible to enable it. > 1551469658 201009 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Poolshark14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60199&oldid=60197 5* 03Int-e 5* (+765) 10enter the magic mirror < 1551469729 622952 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a big deal... svg just feels smoother. but of course it's also a way to transport Javascript... so perhaps it's better to leave it turned off. < 1551469780 7700 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though that's a very sad reason. < 1551469792 498714 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But valid, I'm afraid. < 1551470016 942507 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :MediaWiki blocks any JS in SVG even when it's enabled. < 1551470024 834440 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course that's assuming they've managed to catch it all. > 1551470026 289760 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Poolshark14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60200&oldid=60199 5* 03Int-e 5* (+225) 10fewer obstructions < 1551470115 820047 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1551470489 72357 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 Re canonical way to clear top 32 bits of eax, looks like in at least some contexts GCC will use "mov eax, eax" for that, which makes sense. < 1551470489 407161 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1551470841 466283 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I added a thing to my status bar that shows me the size in bytes of the primary and clipboard selection, whether they contain any newlines, and whether they are equal. < 1551470855 43248 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also a keybinding to clear them both. < 1551470861 2189 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is TG. < 1551470876 450648 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds pretty good. < 1551470889 43622 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially the newline indicator, maybe I could dare to paste from PDFs to IRC with one of those. < 1551470918 359307 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Daring to paste to IRC was the goal. < 1551470942 978635 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo can you believe we're still using these archaic terminal uis that don't support paste properly > 1551470945 27604 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Poolshark14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60201&oldid=60200 5* 03Int-e 5* (+237) 10 < 1551471153 848897 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :god damn it it has been 2 hours < 1551471156 974265 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid git < 1551471169 247539 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm hmm. "ETSI as a global standards body has been engaged for the past three years in developing Transport Layer Security implementation technical standards" < 1551471500 625100 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :spacex rocket launch in 11hr30min < 1551471696 797183 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i usually paste into url bar first < 1551471700 550157 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :to erase newlines < 1551471718 245499 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: it's not giving you a progress indication? < 1551471723 120502 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it usually does... < 1551471727 268620 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure you don't want to merge instead? < 1551471740 238897 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway you could look at how many commits there are past the rebase point as a progress < 1551471743 232763 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1551471912 142367 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I can tell it's not really possible to watch for clipboard changes in X? < 1551471930 263049 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Is this about the eTLS scam? < 1551472003 682621 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1551472020 849868 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :where "e" stands for "backdoor-ready", I believe ;-) < 1551472032 666233 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least that has a nice buzzy ring to it) < 1551472047 324550 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and it's far more accurate than "enterprise") < 1551472100 433953 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :They also write that "security capabilities [will] go dark". https://csrc.nist.gov/CSRC/media/Publications/sp/800-52/rev-2/draft/documents/sp800-52r2-draft2-comments-received.pdf#page=14 < 1551472169 386152 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: do you poll? < 1551472178 272402 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think X has various extensions that let you sniff all messages? < 1551472237 425865 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just poll once a second, yep. < 1551472241 312781 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-btfizbesorwyvoae QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1551472257 721485 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems kind of excessive for a small feature. But maybe it's possible? < 1551472267 337693 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-82.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: and if two clients try that, then they'll be spinning each otwards their nose, like when two dogs mutually try to sniff each other's butt < 1551472304 772674 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1551472314 512519 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sniffing messages doesn't generate messages presumably. < 1551472321 38165 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-82.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1551472335 825269 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-82.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but kmc said "sniff all messages" < 1551472346 70081 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :👃 < 1551472369 78963 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :snort all messages < 1551472379 591026 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would have to be careful to ignore your own set-clipboard messages, though < 1551472423 827579 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :X11 is a mess < 1551472431 524528 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1551472474 603606 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in theory it's a protocol but you can't even implement it yourself if you want opengl or whatever < 1551472491 752492 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you gotta use xlib which is a double mess < 1551472603 755766 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't there an alternative mess (xcb)? < 1551472658 94828 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I use xcb instead of xlib? < 1551472677 65665 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You still need xlib for glx but maybe you can do the rest with xcb. < 1551472974 527007 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. I've written one xcb program and that was ages ago... I think the main point was to allow more asynchronicity which is rather pointless for small programs. < 1551472998 761435 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of asynchronicity? < 1551473022 924161 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does seem to do GLX though. https://xcb.freedesktop.org/manual/group__XCB__Glx__API.html < 1551473101 630339 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, submitting several requests simultaneously and process replys as they come along the socket. A lot of the libX APIs are synchronous at first; a function will make a request to the X server and wait for the reply. < 1551473109 264543 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. Xlib < 1551473208 789093 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, really? < 1551473215 394627 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I'd be good just polling on the file descriptor. < 1551473308 93551 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for most requests, xcb hands out cookied that you can wait on later. http://paste.debian.net/1070921/ < 1551473356 573311 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs < 1551473436 646445 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very low level... I'm not sure I'd really want to go there :P < 1551473678 93663 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah, http://www.inkscapeforum.com/images/smilies/tool_pen.gif ... treating tool icons as smileys :) < 1551473707 175941 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What should I use instead? < 1551473726 313490 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, did you know Gtk renders widgets using CSS nowadays? < 1551473768 482523 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, vaguely. I remember tweaking an evince color with CSS at some point. < 1551473807 839684 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-82.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: isn't it Qt that does that? < 1551473825 787855 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qt also does it. < 1551473857 950243 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not all that surprising < 1551473871 113810 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(once you allow themes) < 1551473983 547059 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-82.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird > 1551474239 51766 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 overwrite10 02 5* 03Int-e 5* 10uploaded a new version of "[[02File:Magicsharkmirror.png10]]": add "bad" circle > 1551474350 808511 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Poolshark14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60203&oldid=60201 5* 03Int-e 5* (+219) 10 < 1551474445 766945 :orbitaldecay!44215aa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello all < 1551474491 351570 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi there < 1551474507 638776 :orbitaldecay!44215aa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, you've added something. looking now. > 1551474566 255605 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Poolshark14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60204&oldid=60203 5* 03Int-e 5* (+1) 10typo < 1551474764 793780 :orbitaldecay!44215aa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :going to need to think about this, brain is a little tired atm, but thank you for articulating your idea! < 1551474768 118942 :orbitaldecay!44215aa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm excited! > 1551474788 268170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60205 5* 03Cortex 5* (+451) 10Created page with "'''ALLSCII''' is a stack-based esolang created by [[User:Cortex|]] where every printable ASCII character is (will be) a valid command. == Commands == {| class="wikitable" |-..." < 1551474868 108408 :neanias!sid218528@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-arxjcafvxtqqivcm PART :#esoteric < 1551474987 114625 :orbitaldecay!44215aa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Collaborating is so cool B) < 1551475138 8405 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: I guess my main point in the "magic mirror" construction is that without smoothness, you may have too much power built into a single reflection already. OTOH, this enables a divisibility test so reducing from Fractran becomes a breeze, which seems fair enough... (the region D and all reflections remain computable; TCness is emerging from doing an unbounded number of reflections.) < 1551475207 887741 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand Mediawiki's caching. < 1551475230 22308 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-82.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if in doubt, blame caching < 1551475251 36226 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, (https://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:Poolshark is showing an old image version for me, after showing the right one a couple of minutes ago. < 1551475256 808620 :orbitaldecay!44215aa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :got it. excellent. I appreciate your thoughts :) < 1551475330 83049 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Restarted the browser, now it's fine... (too many caches is what I'm blaming) < 1551475347 600956 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I see, X calls can just block waiting for a reply whenever they want? < 1551475385 8029 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think so. < 1551475534 644830 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: and the construction is a variation on an analysis (or calculus) exercise... construct a function which is differentiable on the rationals, with an arbitrary function Q -> R as the partial derivative. (Q can be replaced by a countable subset of the reals) < 1551475562 9162 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. I should not use "partial derivative" like that :P < 1551475577 417347 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean it's a partial function...) < 1551475617 753821 :orbitaldecay!44215aa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I vaguely recall doing something like that in an introductory real analysis course once < 1551475786 264246 :orbitaldecay!44215aa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been out of school for too long. My brain is rotting haha < 1551475800 967668 :orbitaldecay!44215aa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :going through this will be a good exercise for the evening < 1551475909 508050 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too obviously since my intuition says that Q is dense in R so you can't arbitrarily pick derivatives on all points in Q like that < 1551475962 262171 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Man, the xcb API looks big and complicated. < 1551475973 117156 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this the canonical way to do things? < 1551475979 418882 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: blame the X protocol :) < 1551475990 701256 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shi < 1551476001 198898 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the canonical way is to use a toolkit library that hides all the ugliness (and adds some of its own instead) < 1551476018 419449 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which one? < 1551476027 921266 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-82.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the canonical way is to use xcb for negotiating and bootstrapping saner protocols < 1551476036 143664 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which ones? < 1551476054 552869 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno. GTK is the only one I've programmed with. < 1551476074 654316 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-82.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably xkb and whatever that other one is for input, and some protocol for mapping some video memory and drawing straight on them for output < 1551476082 699733 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to write some GTK code and it was so demoralizing I gave up programming. < 1551476116 639562 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet here we are < 1551476127 627191 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-82.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how it all works < 1551476133 336459 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe SDL? < 1551476138 631660 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-82.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the toolkits suck these days, but you can't do much about that < 1551476220 718635 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The postmodern approach is to use an HTML renderer. (Electron...) < 1551476229 620381 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1551476232 588885 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is too postmodern for me. < 1551476348 457438 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :SDL is nice for what it does. < 1551476760 287296 :shi!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin < 1551476794 855776 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: One of the things I don't get about these APIs is why they're full of mallocs. < 1551476861 118264 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they tend to be OO, and "malloc" is how you do "new" in C? < 1551476981 534009 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why would a low-level api be OO < 1551477019 565300 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :tdnh < 1551477045 129403 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh if you did not refer to toolkit libraries maybe you should be more specific than writing "these" < 1551477128 697585 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(toolkit libraries tend to think of themselves as highlevel) < 1551477235 968768 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :THREEEE HOURS!!!!! < 1551477260 592835 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :First, rewinding head to replay your work on top of it... < 1551477268 382960 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1551477412 870816 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean Xlib and xcb < 1551477416 340406 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: but if you meant xcb... the X protocol has some variable length replies, so hiding the allocation in the library is *good*. for uniformity reasons it's reasonable to treat all the other data in the same way. < 1551477449 466950 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't it just tell me the size and let me allocate? < 1551477651 455156 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-82.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you can just implement that yourself directly < 1551477656 646288 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-82.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :without using the library < 1551477660 151708 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I? < 1551477665 853879 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to use OpenGL. < 1551477682 303520 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Vulkan or whatever. < 1551477734 859864 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the glX calls take a Display * argument so I don't think they can be used with my own implementation of the protocol? < 1551479111 580650 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1551480279 86192 :J_Arcane_!sid119274@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gtyylycydmwpjcym JOIN :#esoteric < 1551480325 903542 :ocharles_!sid30093@musicbrainz/user/ocharles JOIN :#esoteric < 1551480756 228511 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:d12b:7194:ce8c:11a8 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1551480758 533738 :ocharles!sid30093@musicbrainz/user/ocharles QUIT :*.net *.split < 1551480758 573213 :J_Arcane!sid119274@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xicczvqpmgahqrha QUIT :*.net *.split < 1551480762 609276 :J_Arcane_!sid119274@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gtyylycydmwpjcym NICK :J_Arcane < 1551480775 467376 :ocharles_!sid30093@musicbrainz/user/ocharles NICK :ocharles < 1551481007 998581 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOUR HOUUUURRRRRS < 1551481143 600623 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:5c54:3931:a544:cab5 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551481503 127743 :orbitaldecay!44215aa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.166 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1551481610 264119 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ocharles: yocharles < 1551481929 118577 :orbitaldecay!44215aa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.166 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551481957 551410 :orbitaldecay!44215aa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: apparently a method for the construction of continuous functions that are only differentiable at rational points wasn't discovered until 2013 (!) < 1551481971 209953 :orbitaldecay!44215aa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a method does exist < 1551481981 879681 :orbitaldecay!44215aa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we're not in completely uncharted territory < 1551482124 629796 :orbitaldecay!44215aa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing it the other way, constructing a continuous function that is only differentiable at irrational points, is apparently easy < 1551482185 26122 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I can do that by adding sawtooth functions. (period 1/n, amplitude 1/n^2, sum over all n) < 1551482213 152332 :orbitaldecay!44215aa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah, that makes sense < 1551482240 793519 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or step functions to get something that is discontinuous at all rational numbers, and has derivative 0 elsewhere < 1551482300 199018 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but fortunately, for that magic mirror I just don't care what happens for irrational offsets < 1551482321 347053 :orbitaldecay!44215aa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I think the easiest might be to have it not even be differentiable at rational points so it just halts < 1551482353 366352 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-066-199-031.088.066.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Quit: rebooting < 1551482468 91389 :orbitaldecay!44215aa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1551482851 862772 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-066-199-031.088.066.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1551483437 577029 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I miss BZFlag < 1551483548 296741 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grwp riddle < 1551483549 654214 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1551483560 488552 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wc -l quotes < 1551483560 966877 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wc: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try 'wc --help' for more information. < 1551483563 452712 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``wc -l quotes < 1551483563 915079 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `wc: not found < 1551483571 753109 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` wc -l quotes < 1551483572 482365 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1332 quotes < 1551483958 775679 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is buggy shit. nobody gives a shit if anything works. people don't give a fuck about picking good tools. the claim that software as practice today is "engineering" is completely embarrassing < 1551483976 45681 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :standards are so low and everyone is just okay with it for some reason < 1551484027 791327 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is one of the reasons i'm giving up on software < 1551484058 471198 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck it, and fuck everything < 1551484303 980806 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i think that's structural more than anything < 1551484313 804200 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :most notably that the stakes in software are, i think, actually quite low < 1551484368 633437 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly lower than stuff that has historically been called engineering < 1551484375 185719 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1551484399 221514 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if software came with guarantees and you could sue < 1551484405 795884 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :then companies would have to buy insurance < 1551484413 676656 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if their practices are shit then their insurance will be too expensive < 1551484419 667274 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the software would also be more expensive < 1551484482 628834 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure but i think the reason that doesn't happen is that it's actually not that important when software breaks < 1551484525 865262 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive particularly noticed that with security stuff where, like, i feel there's this gulf between what security researchers say which is that security Matters and is Immensely Important < 1551484563 907099 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the real world in which bash, openssl and every fucking cpu on the planet all had security holes you could drive a truck through for a decade and it didn't matter until security researchers kicked up a fuss over it < 1551484671 583112 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it mattered to a bunch of people who got hacked and their lives ruined < 1551484696 409121 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't matter to average joe but it's one of the main drivers behind the modern panopticon authoritarian state < 1551484708 570017 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :who got hacked with any of those bugs? < 1551484758 559567 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the panopticon authoritarian state is a political problem that must be solved with political action < 1551484764 248303 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :not netsec < 1551484771 946603 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but we don't have to make it so easy for them < 1551484807 278408 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :building high quality software that can be used by people who are fighting the authoritarian state is a valuable form of direct action < 1551484811 880532 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway that's my opinion < 1551484818 271655 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it? < 1551484828 381265 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was more venting rather than trying to have an in depth conversation < 1551484836 776248 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :your point is well taken though < 1551484842 691408 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1551484870 3658 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :idk i think the glorious vision of, like, wikileaks leading us to a new democratic dawn crashed and burned < 1551484886 923100 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :turned out wikileaks had no political vision beyond iconoclasm and just climbed into the pockets of right-wing ideologues < 1551484907 298866 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-82.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: feel free to vent, but if you do it on an irc channel, sometimes people reply < 1551484980 960307 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-82.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1551485047 618771 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks b_jonas < 1551485052 896133 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't upset that PH replied < 1551485065 822667 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just saying, i might not stay in the convo for very long < 1551485089 123069 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is angry at software, angry at life, angry at herself :( < 1551485096 347058 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and rapidly feeling worse < 1551485154 809464 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel like this is something im increasingly cognisant of, that even if you have an interesting disagreement with someone who is venting about something they are probably not going to be interested in disagreeing with you < 1551485164 624014 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :im learnding! < 1551485366 412777 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :most software is p. bad but you can still make ok software > 1551485398 73180 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60206&oldid=60194 5* 03A 5* (-41) 10Z3 operates in binary, so unbounded cells are not necessary. < 1551485452 782293 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( silence thine fine utterings ) > 1551485462 255245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60207&oldid=60151 5* 03A 5* (-141) 10 < 1551485499 259244 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A < 1551485567 522594 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1551485925 584115 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551486087 313390 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1551486089 62770 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1551486596 732735 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1551487006 540440 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some libraries that you can pass your own functions for memory allocation. SQLite has this option, and Lemon parser generator can also do, and so does smallxrm (my own implementation of the X resource manager) < 1551487163 498054 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you do that for all libraries that use a dynamically linked malloc < 1551487272 984764 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But only globally. < 1551487320 547625 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :with enough hackery it wouldn't have to be global < 1551487333 785822 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, you will then have big problems if allocations are passed between libraries < 1551487355 941878 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I can think of more pleasant uses of your time, such as gouging out your eyes. < 1551487359 427218 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, smallxrm has the following function for initialization: int xrm_init(void*(*f)(void*,size_t)); So if you call xrm_init(realloc) then it will initialize everything and will remember to use the passed function for memory allocation. < 1551487391 78601 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Oh, it's storing the allocator globally? Ick. < 1551487406 596299 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taking an allocator argument can be good but sometimes I don't want to call any allocator. < 1551487419 575390 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just allocate some memory for the thing up front < 1551487434 640759 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, although SQLite does the same thing (although I think SQLite4 allows you to create local environments too) < 1551487476 37547 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You can do that, if the passed function just returns the already allocated data < 1551487500 600924 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But then you still have to keep track by yourself of the allocations anyways; that is what TeX does) < 1551487502 175663 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then I need to make a custom allocator for that one call. < 1551487551 778887 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the program needs dynamic allocation at all, then it will be needed, I think. < 1551487917 971308 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1551488855 95628 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551489375 6552 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1551490479 127893 :orbitaldecay!44215aa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.166 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1551490575 120892 :orbitaldecay!44215916@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.89.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551490583 418094 :orbitaldecay!44215916@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.89.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello all < 1551490645 872251 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1551490664 289709 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`yo orby < 1551490665 7394 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: yo: not found < 1551490669 418986 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1551490672 19773 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dobg yo < 1551490673 657708 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1551490683 479331 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :v. mysterious. vysterious. < 1551490689 301194 :orbitaldecay!44215916@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.89.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey shachaf! hey zzo38! < 1551490696 205816 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w < 1551490698 457706 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:culprits//c[uw]lprits lists the nicks responsible for a file or wisdom entry. Usage: `culprits FILE or `cwlprits ENTRY \ utf8//utf-8 is an encoding for humans to tell the time in symbolic processing programs. \ zork//Zork is like York, except for the first letter. Uaneb invented it. \ ravnica: city of guilds//Ravnica: City of Guilds is a city of guilds. “City of Guilds” is part of its name. The Wizards of the Coast Marketing Department: We < 1551490704 927573 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1551490705 761919 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:Sell Anything thought players might not notice it was a City of Guilds unless they put the tagline into the name. \ co-np//co-NP, invented in Soviet Russia, is the class of decisions for which you are No Problem. < 1551490712 792691 :orbitaldecay!44215916@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.89.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any other langs on the wiki based on dynamical systems that anyone knows of? < 1551490734 452263 :orbitaldecay!44215916@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.89.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not neccesarily systems of differential equations, just general dynamical systems < 1551490738 371687 :orbitaldecay!44215916@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.89.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :double pendulum, etc. < 1551490751 736988 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? np < 1551490752 939514 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :NP is the complexity class of decision problems that are No Problem. < 1551490762 939351 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? p < 1551490764 28047 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :P is the complexity class of Problems. They can be solved by reduction to NP. < 1551490774 621043 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cwlprits p < 1551490776 287009 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjän oerjän < 1551490778 706776 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: itym reduction from hth < 1551491758 711721 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00fc578b5afd0db9e6.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1551492385 954649 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no hth < 1551492667 638408 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hth script has a silly bug where it complains about missing packages if i have hth at the end of the first message i post after logging on irssi < 1551492694 81327 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/a/another/ < 1551492717 893744 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot you have that script. < 1551492723 873708 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it still not do /me? < 1551492730 548483 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :after that message they're apparently loaded < 1551492746 772541 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that's what the s/ was for < 1551492798 867479 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hth script hanothers a silly bug < 1551492810 817124 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep!! < 1551492857 541184 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :is hanother named after hanover < 1551492896 158566 :orbitaldecay!44215916@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.89.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: did you see int-e's interesting idea on the poolshark talk page? < 1551494332 120372 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not yet < 1551495315 121520 :TellsTogo!3ecd7a77@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.205.122.119 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551495507 730895 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does the hth script do twh < 1551495566 689635 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ hth$// < 1551495582 697669 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also similar for a few other acronyms < 1551495626 664757 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tdh tdnh twnh at least < 1551495636 176231 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dogs howl < 1551495638 53372 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dogs now howl < 1551495643 983948 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the witches now howl < 1551495674 346333 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah those are all < 1551495694 648952 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not werewolves? < 1551495700 129130 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would make more sense < 1551495710 14851 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just wolves actually < 1551495721 336638 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would make more sense < 1551495732 488898 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :since wolves howl and witches do not < 1551495742 291343 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :werewolves do not even exist so they certainly don't howl < 1551495743 40283 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure about witches < 1551495781 605878 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they're hypothetical beings as implied by the "were" < 1551495973 788447 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't those just past beings < 1551495982 148234 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to arewolves which exist right now < 1551496471 523659 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they were past beings, they wouldn't be hypothetical duh < 1551496482 991615 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose it's ambiguous < 1551498217 472161 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551505438 331195 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the singular of werewolves is waswolf < 1551505533 58204 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551506613 422943 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: only with shachaf's interpretation hth < 1551506701 181689 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would not apply if the werewolf were hypothetical < 1551506774 537646 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's true. < 1551506787 197847 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The standard singular is "werewolf" which does support the subjunctive interpretation. < 1551506888 241729 :mniip!mniip@freenode/staff/mniip QUIT :Ping timeout: 624 seconds < 1551508248 918087 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1551508275 180359 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551508296 23343 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1551508325 201985 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551508342 751298 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1551508370 191589 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551508389 588118 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1551508411 870007 :mniip!mniip@freenode/staff/mniip JOIN :#esoteric < 1551508420 215592 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551508436 221457 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1551508465 204561 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551508482 957251 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1551508515 191655 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551508529 761479 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1551508559 754936 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551508576 389733 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1551508605 203739 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551508622 992333 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1551508636 693846 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :oerjan < 1551508649 793222 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551508659 7971 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: *cough* < 1551508669 610800 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1551508699 242980 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551508716 429843 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1551508964 807780 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no MODE #esoteric -o :oerjan < 1551509095 216613 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551509205 261048 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan? < 1551509303 81644 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You appear to be connected via IP-over-smoke-signal. < 1551509338 698598 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1551510368 192053 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: you stopped just as i was putting my finger on the ban button < 1551510390 107194 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPOOKY < 1551510405 117809 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh what's with the kloeri spam < 1551510414 663834 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :on eveyr channel I'm in except this one < 1551510471 941029 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :is someone making abusive messages about freenode staff again < 1551510551 710856 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1551510561 369909 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't care to click the link and find out who the target is hth < 1551510564 846565 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w < 1551510567 49477 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:erlang//Erlang has tricked people into loving global mutable variables while pretending to embrace immutability. \ itidus19//itidus19 disappeared into a space-time anomaly \ angband//Angband is Morgoth's second dungeon (the first was Utumno). When the greater and lesser people of Middle-Earth together defeated Morgoth in Angband, they were too lazy to go to for 100% completion, so some evil spirits in Angband survived for a sequel, and Morgoth hi < 1551510568 384670 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just had to make a channel I'm op in +R for a bit. < 1551510570 961860 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :oerjan < 1551510573 427687 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1551510574 235645 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:mself recovered and arrived to Numenor. \ life//‘Life,’ said Marvin, ‘don't talk to me about life.’ \ emacs//emacs is the weird brother of nano. < 1551510586 261981 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cwlprits erlang < 1551510587 897497 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjän Sgëo < 1551510597 16685 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg erlang < 1551510598 607465 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :8481:2016-06-14 sled wisdom/erlang//s/./E/;s/$/./ \ 8478:2016-06-14 learn erlang has tricked people into loving global mutable variables while pretending to embrace immutability < 1551510600 56448 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: The target is a decent guy who pissed off some idiot trolls, basically. < 1551510612 269415 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "unknown mode character +R" < 1551510617 26021 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I mean, whether the target is a Freenode staff or something else. < 1551510635 795815 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yeah, it's not on Freenode; unreal IRC does different modes than here < 1551510645 357574 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm what was it we did < 1551510650 20335 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Former Freenode staffer, IIRC. < 1551510651 75214 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you set this channel to be unreal twh < 1551510658 630636 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OK, but I don't even know their name. < 1551510663 909462 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to click the link. < 1551510668 112373 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair. < 1551510668 280933 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even know it was a person. < 1551510675 410386 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :we silenced unregistered users, but i've forgotten the incantation < 1551510693 458827 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: The link is for a distro. < 1551510718 996198 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just happen to know a bit about the distro and know a former Freenode staffer is a (minor!) contributor, and that previous spam messages attacked them by name in association with that distro. < 1551510902 194192 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: +r hth < 1551510918 936472 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That allows only registered users to join. < 1551510927 679696 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It is explained by "HELP CMODE".) < 1551510967 23411 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. NOTICE #esoteric :oerjan quieted $~a < 1551510967 104979 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +q :$~a < 1551510970 645413 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to allow unregistered users to join but don't send messages to the channel, then maybe "+q $~a" will do? < 1551510984 323365 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: found it in my chanserv logs < 1551510996 621334 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(explained by "HELP EXTBAN") < 1551510997 366903 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You log?! < 1551511014 872161 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: private queries only < 1551511020 824385 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :scow < 1551511023 898450 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no MODE #esoteric -o :oerjan < 1551511026 249679 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :scøw < 1551511050 719885 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: irssi apparently does so by default for messages i send, too < 1551511058 552772 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea how to turn that off < 1551511133 11734 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :my irssi certainly doesn't log < 1551512633 707366 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dgsxzfsnaeolhzrf QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1551513042 211 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1551513653 775360 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551516964 812989 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1551517971 730491 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1551519937 839872 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551521075 522659 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551522435 88783 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00b488094a99030d4a.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1551523958 723266 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1551526316 262466 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1551526459 775865 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT : < 1551526757 118943 :orbitaldecay!44215916@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.89.22 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1551526795 242591 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.200.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551526871 418828 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.200.33 QUIT :Client Quit < 1551526901 325621 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1551526943 203413 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1551526970 611066 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1551527250 144232 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551527518 490290 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1551527617 651872 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551528334 873363 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551528807 718299 :LKoen_!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a009d5f0bec31c46ef9.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1551528867 386148 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551529009 81483 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00b488094a99030d4a.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 259 seconds < 1551529205 699721 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551529340 869542 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1551529346 854459 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1551531814 274205 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.200.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551531880 71892 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xmkadisliuchmlbs JOIN :#esoteric < 1551534308 522174 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1551536005 131030 :TellsTogo!3ecd7a77@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.205.122.119 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1551536349 413664 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1551537560 586295 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551544007 196789 :LKoen_!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a009d5f0bec31c46ef9.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1551544024 69851 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a009d5f0bec31c46ef9.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1551544188 130985 :orbitaldecay!44215d4a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.74 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551544195 958896 :orbitaldecay!44215d4a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Greetings all < 1551544220 561768 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1551544225 419139 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1551544284 439596 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would you expect a MIX computer to do if the pattern of holes punched into a card does not correspond to any valid character? > 1551545125 25417 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Poolshark14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60208&oldid=60177 5* 03Orby 5* (+31) 10/* Introduction */ < 1551546149 502950 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1551547981 763650 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you any good at computer machines with cards? < 1551548072 635070 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it should error by lighting up a LED that indicates failure and eject the card < 1551548134 298102 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that could do, but have you worked with such computers and what would they do in such case (if you have ever tried it)? < 1551548487 98276 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no ive never < 1551548581 84475 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1551548664 709755 :housecarpenter!~housecarp@90.252.251.94 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551550201 193194 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : > 1551551952 973200 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Poolshark14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60209&oldid=60208 5* 03Orby 5* (+1175) 10Adding section on magic mirrors < 1551552071 359305 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rrezhxausnvbppko JOIN :#esoteric < 1551552667 233164 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1551554323 230323 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551554370 18344 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How should priorities of noun phrases be assigned in a text adventure game, do you think? < 1551555178 618444 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: re dynamical systems, ais523's integrator language should count. https://esolangs.org/wiki/Analogia < 1551555255 191828 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what it means to assign noun phrases < 1551555406 858059 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, you have "me" to refer to the player character, and then the magic diamond can use either "diamond" or "magic diamond" (the latter with a higher priority), and the police report can use either "report" or "police report" (again, the latter with a higher priority). But sometimes other functions may add a number to the priority, for example if you want to pick up an item, items you already have are low priority. < 1551555430 236602 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.200.33 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1551555454 545007 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh interesting < 1551555468 937664 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose it looks over all options and picks the highest priority < 1551555481 317635 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1551555484 610290 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or uses priority to break ties < 1551555514 815904 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. If there is a tie for the highest priority, then it is ambiguous so it displays an error message. < 1551556680 859793 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551556952 740129 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1551557015 427142 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551557519 906703 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://i.imgur.com/NcW0NJL.jpg < 1551557758 891024 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck momo. < 1551558038 986654 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551559810 568086 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rrezhxausnvbppko QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1551560054 183404 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551560321 165165 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1551560481 417959 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1551562144 170481 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551563497 448894 :orbitaldecay!44215d4a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: thanks! < 1551564637 271522 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1551564729 254727 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551565340 794066 :Remavas-Hex!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1551565353 923464 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1551565363 911898 :Remavas-Hex!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas NICK :Remavas < 1551567005 341474 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas NICK :Remavas[AFK] < 1551567125 425189 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anything been achieved by attempting to decompress a random bit stream? < 1551567176 242720 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551567269 176776 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551567272 95132 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unhuffman encoding a random bitstream would be randomly generating letters with varying probability < 1551567301 881522 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, although there is other kind of compression too, as well as stuff to compress other than text. < 1551567329 481033 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you could consider a lot of sampling algorithms, like what fungot does, to be doing that < 1551567329 769180 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: i've browsed around fnord for at least a little bit of assembly. c's is, because you have not been able to do it < 1551567371 279599 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, the wisdom of fungot. < 1551567371 443322 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: http://octiron.org/ temp/ fnord temp/ fnord < 1551567452 317157 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :although perhaps it's more decoding than decompressing, because they needn't be particularly careful to not use extra input entropy, so the compression doesn't compress too well < 1551567530 167739 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1551567710 823092 :crzydiamo!~uh@ppp-94-69-229-62.home.otenet.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1551568215 386452 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551568825 967655 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like Glulx assembly language? I am making "Game of XYZABCDE - Part II" in Glulx. < 1551568837 93053 :Remavas[AFK]!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas NICK :Remavas < 1551569132 932728 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1551569315 107631 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are C++ coroutines so complicated and rely on an allocator? < 1551569457 32140 :caragata!~Florecita@77.209.25.138 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551569528 378759 :caragata!~Florecita@77.209.25.138 PART :#esoteric < 1551569884 354443 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing they imposed some requirements that resulted in that. < 1551569905 838693 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like interacting vaguely sanely with C code that's unaware of C++ coroutines or some such. < 1551569940 440776 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow they reduced it to an unsolved research problem in compiler optimization that should be solved in 5-10 years. < 1551569950 428585 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the superpower of the c++ committee < 1551569993 359201 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is funny, when you consider that _C_ can get simpler coroutines. < 1551570008 431589 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's not as a standard language feature, but it would not take much. < 1551570042 582235 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by the way, IMO a new language that's imperative-y really should just fucking do coroutines.) < 1551570049 327033 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, C++ isn't doing stack switching style coroutines, they're going for something more efficient. < 1551570079 868884 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Allegedly. < 1551570118 750075 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's what they were going for, I have no idea what they actually ended up with. < 1551570134 162731 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'd certainly like there to be a language that has good support for this style, rather than stack switching. < 1551570248 665359 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any language that implements it well? < 1551570498 723727 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1551570650 523353 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1551570862 65061 :crzydiamo!~uh@ppp-94-69-229-62.home.otenet.gr QUIT :Quit: i just need to know if you are a man < 1551571021 511232 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is C++ coroutines is work? < 1551571071 220265 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, it's very complicated apparently. < 1551571150 979195 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :did the spam in other channels from yesterday stop? < 1551571162 626872 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose some kind of assembly language can have coroutines too, although Z-machine and Glulx don't allow you to change the stack. In JavaScript there are generator functions, which can be used to do something like coroutines, although I also wanted to have real stack switching too it is sometimes useful < 1551571205 175927 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you probably missed this global message: http://paste.debian.net/1071134/ < 1551571227 538490 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I want coroutines that compile to state machines instead of stack switching. < 1551571251 242314 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: and are the messages working? >:) < 1551571260 236288 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I suppose that's why it stopped for now. For anybody reading this in the future: Freenode enabled some global server-side filtering for PRIVMSG.) < 1551571265 469007 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :oerjan < 1551571276 321606 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yes, I know, the wrote about that < 1551571302 587521 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: ??? < 1551571365 420578 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: http://freenode.net/news/spamfilter < 1551571372 964178 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :from 2018-09 < 1551571389 891061 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. NOTICE #esoteric :oerjan unquieted $~a < 1551571389 891107 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric -q :$~a < 1551571396 627905 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no MODE #esoteric -o :oerjan < 1551571405 797849 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :again? < 1551571407 652870 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, i don't need op for this < 1551571411 13817 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought we were past that < 1551571423 933032 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: again what? < 1551571446 503198 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :again quieting users without account < 1551571458 254413 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I just don't understand how you writing about this at some arbitrary point in the past is relevant to answering a question that arose just now. < 1551571484 520513 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I wasn't writing about it < 1551571485 269526 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551571489 576902 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :freenode staff was < 1551571514 139011 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :about the server-side spam filter < 1551571521 275695 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm also more easily annoyed right now than I should be. The "for the future" comment was because the paste will expire. < 1551571545 212400 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: i added it yesterday just in case while waiting for freenode to solve it globally < 1551571565 181176 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: meh, I probably just don't notice the spam < 1551571567 843813 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a mental filter < 1551571634 851076 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3A6fsBqOHg < 1551571674 851328 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enviable. I need /ignore for that... < 1551571703 951976 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :added 痩痴瘍療癒癖皆盆 < 1551571871 840284 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: mostly likely they didn't get around to this channel this time, anyway < 1551571875 858856 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-ly < 1551571910 369300 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and iirc last time they were using ridiculously annoying colors, unless that was a different spammer < 1551571946 480255 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and large messages < 1551572058 142490 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xmkadisliuchmlbs QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1551572138 773943 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a009d5f0bec31c46ef9.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1551572200 685681 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they didn't get to this channel but they were claiming that exherbo linux was "linuc for pedophiles" < 1551572266 644341 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think a compiler is still allowed to try very hard to avoid allocations. < 1551572289 636888 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I just want a struct, man < 1551572290 459084 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :twh < 1551572307 638026 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs < 1551572327 476282 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/I/i/ < 1551572328 496152 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a cruel world; we hardly ever get what we want. < 1551572337 906264 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially when we use C++. < 1551572390 775694 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551572465 438075 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok either my memory is toast (PLAUSIBLE) or the mezzacotta comics are no longer unchanging. writing down the start of some recent ones to recheck tomorrow. < 1551572478 859219 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, the _colors_, those I don't display using the irc client. < 1551572501 159304 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome < 1551572502 610858 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​04Welcome 07to 08the 09international 02hub 06for 13esoteric 04programming 07language 08design 09and 02deployment! 06For 13more 04information, 07check 08out 09our 02wiki: 06. 13(For 04the 07other 08kind 09of 02esoterica, 06try 13#esoteric 04on 07EFnet 08or 09DALnet.) < 1551572536 844972 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :دnet < 1551572558 674916 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Фnet < 1551572577 155765 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1551572577 683056 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1551572929 871203 :housecarpenter!~housecarp@90.252.251.94 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1551572952 725193 :housecarpenter!~housecarp@90.252.251.94 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551574312 335042 :housecarpenter!~housecarp@90.252.251.94 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1551574334 180855 :housecarpenter!~housecarp@90.252.251.94 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551575290 167663 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551575308 92511 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: I had an idea like Poolshark myself a while ago, but it was much more ambitious and I couldn't make it work < 1551575331 518443 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the language as you've written it, though, it would be clearly TC if not for the requirement that the mirrors that make up the region have to be connected < 1551575334 881423 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, Turing-hard, anyway < 1551575338 945647 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as pointed out, it's not obvious it's computable < 1551575396 598846 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic idea is to write a program so that the angle of the bouncing ray is always known (except in very small areas that act as lenses), and you encode a rational number in its position/displacement < 1551575400 764942 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohai < 1551575417 487141 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can effectively build a divmod-counter machine < 1551575424 106936 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi b_jonas < 1551575437 14092 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that mario galaxy stuff? < 1551575462 860260 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what's the right model for a computable function on computable reals? < 1551575462 976245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does Mario Galaxy have to do with this? besides, now you mention it, probably being TC in its own right < 1551575482 273912 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a sort of two-way dialogue between the caller and the function, and it seems like it'd be nice to model it explicitly. < 1551575489 367888 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that's a very hard question, because equality of computable reals is not decidable < 1551575497 776108 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mario galaxy has a part where mario walks in a straight line on the surface of a polyhedron, and there was something somewhere about how the long term behavior of that is hard to compute < 1551575510 624620 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't require it to be decidable. < 1551575515 551173 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want an explicit model for two-way dialogues that implement functions, though, look up "game semantics", that's pretty much exactly what game semantics is for < 1551575531 237029 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, simpler question: What's the right model for a computable function on conatural numbers? < 1551575554 601367 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A conatural number is either a natural number or infinity. < 1551575557 91136 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a weird field, the basic ideas of game semantics are applicable in a huge number of fields and it's really easy to prove things with it, but all the terminology is terrible < 1551575576 779829 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or: A program that either prints some finite number of 1s and halts, or prints 1s forever. < 1551575582 843557 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: that doesn't surprise me < 1551575615 264997 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what facilities do we have for /reading/ these numbers? that seems relevant here < 1551575634 673491 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do we have to read them a digit at a time, like a finite state machine (thus we can't distinguish ∞ from an unknown large number)? < 1551575634 757029 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm looking for a nice model. Effectively all these things are equivalent, but the way you express them is very different. < 1551575641 318286 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Yes. < 1551575667 638797 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like you can only read a computable real to a finite precision at a time. < 1551575698 449315 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the paper I'm currently working on at work (as in, right now), I formalized something like this as a function for which prefixes of the input produce prefixes of the output < 1551575709 966128 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, if f(x::y)=z, then f(x) is a prefix of z < 1551575713 517620 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you mean reading them in unary? < 1551575717 980158 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: is sequence concat < 1551575720 201672 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: doesn't matter < 1551575727 115000 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, conatural numbers are represented in unary the way I put it. < 1551575744 313493 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also say that you can ask it "are you <= n?" for any n. < 1551575751 566505 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or some other scheme. < 1551575753 550115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm, it matters in that you can have different infinities if you use a larger base < 1551575761 957540 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You know the "seemingly impossible functional programs" thing? < 1551575772 362920 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or dyadic numbers or something < 1551575772 760632 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Equality of total predicates on conatural numbers is decidable. < 1551575777 947075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: very well, the person who invented it works at my department < 1551575783 519701 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHich person? < 1551575800 693087 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Escardó. < 1551575804 392734 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know he was there. < 1551575806 57563 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Martin Escardó < 1551575814 18310 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I seem to remember I saw that somewhere < 1551575821 856218 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also was the internal examiner for my PhD < 1551575823 903867 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, then you know what I'm getting at here. < 1551575827 410478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1551575835 581276 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, fancy < 1551575874 189800 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So maybe my vague argument is, the whole "seemingly impossible" thing comes from having a complicated model for computation. < 1551575898 150473 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you just had Turing machines, you could simulate the predicate, and see what questions it asks you. < 1551575924 479402 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which is also awkward but in a different way.) < 1551575958 606231 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess a less impossible-seeming program, but related, is the worst-case comparison predicate < 1551575968 15492 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that? < 1551575986 670244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's specified as follows: suppose you have a comparison sorting algorithm that never makes redundant calls to the comparison predicate < 1551576007 818264 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the worst-case comparison predicate will cause any such sorting algorithm to take as long as possible to sort the list < 1551576029 94542 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it does it by choosing how to compare the list elements based on what the sorting algorithm is asking it, i.e. dynamically invents a worst case as it goes) < 1551576067 210001 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, that's related, sure. < 1551576084 207372 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to me that a nicer model of this might remove the nesting and simulation and so forth. < 1551576115 140095 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I give ask f for an approximation of f(x) within a precision, it just asks me for an approximation of x within some precision. < 1551576137 646348 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PPCG had a question about writing automatic counterexample generators for purported halting problem solvers; that was also a pretty similar idea < 1551576139 417925 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean that it asks me explicitly, rather than with a "callback" or something the way it's usually modeled, by asking x. < 1551576162 912618 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there such a model? < 1551576221 910687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said, game semantics is quite good at modelling the "you ask a question of a value, it gives you an answer" < 1551576233 594212 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although one problem is that it's more like a general framework for model-building, rather than a specific model < 1551576241 996882 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1551576271 495984 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is communication complexity a more specific model, for when you care more about the details? < 1551576313 369482 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think thinking of computable functions on computable reals as a two-way channel helps here. < 1551576317 696826 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't heard the phrase "communication complexity" before, but if it means what you'd expect from the two individual words forming it, then yes < 1551576382 531951 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh... < 1551576387 531745 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's not called that then? let me check < 1551576400 431187 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the Zoo < 1551576434 166575 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://complexityzoo.uwaterloo.ca/Complexity_Zoo:P#pcc definitely says "communication complexity" < 1551576479 356030 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I wouldn't expect to have heard of it < 1551576486 960015 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange that you haven't heard of it < 1551576502 168887 :housecarpenter!~housecarp@90.252.251.94 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1551576524 180758 :housecarpenter!~housecarp@90.252.251.94 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551576557 873060 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, I generally study computability classes more than complexity classes < 1551576589 677745 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1551576595 765356 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in the fields I've been working in, people rarely do things like Huffman-coding the various possible messages that can be sent between the parts of a program, and doing that is required for communication complexity to be meaningful < 1551576623 718056 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that said, the Verity compiler needs to come up with explicit codings because it's generating physical hardware rather than mathematical objects, but I haven't put much effort into optimising that) < 1551576639 710319 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you don't have to actually do the Huffman coding, more like just make proofs about ap.. < 1551576642 712238 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1551576645 234077 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1551576649 564584 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :growth rates < 1551576659 261645 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :asymptotics < 1551576732 231105 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, because you don't care about constant factors < 1551576748 688232 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551576751 913265 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So all these "seemingly impossible" things rely on compactness in some sense. < 1551576762 528178 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so as there are a finite number of possible messages, you could even use one-hot and it wouldn't change the complexity, you're just multiplying by a constant < 1551576777 929829 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't think I understand the computational content of compactness very well. Do you? < 1551576793 745436 :housecarpenter!~housecarp@90.252.251.94 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1551576802 867900 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, topology is one of the fields I don't really know much about at all < 1551576817 275134 :housecarpenter!~housecarp@90.252.251.94 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551576834 842868 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Escardó wrote that thing about synthetic topology which I've only read part of. < 1551576839 62316 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Jules Verne's ''Pilot du Danube'', the band of evil guys has a person captured, but then the leader bad guy has doubts about the identity of the prisoner. however, he decides on just trying to ask about the appearance of the prisoner from a minion, rather than visiting him in person, < 1551576842 519960 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I ought to read it properly. < 1551576879 390828 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :he argues that he doesn't want the prisoner to recognize him and know that he's the leader of the bad guys. but that makes no sense, because they could just put a blindfold on the prisoner, as they've done when they took him to the secret hiding place. < 1551576997 26352 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we do know (out of universe) that the band leader would have recognized him > 1551577011 404152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60210&oldid=60205 5* 03Cortex 5* (+331) 10 < 1551577937 883838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: actually, thinking more about the seemingly-impossible thing, the reason it works on Cantor and not Integer is /because/ Cantor is general enough that it's hard to write total functions on it < 1551577967 963460 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on Integer, your program can have an infinite decision tree and still be finite on any particular integer < 1551577995 461491 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1551578001 323699 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but on Cantor, your program must have a finite decision tree, because if it had any infinite branch, you could pick a value in Cantor for which it would go down the infinite branch forever and never decide (thus would be non-total) < 1551578005 937696 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being total on a conatural number is a very strong restriction. < 1551578009 782352 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1551578010 557262 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or on an infinite bit stream, sure. < 1551578071 571588 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so that's what you mean by compactness < 1551578084 759967 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think once you realise that, all the details of actually implementing functions like find become mostly irrelevant, they're basically just methods of empirically determining what the decision tree is < 1551578097 94370 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and comparing the trees is trivial once you know what they are < 1551578147 331235 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess a good model of total functions Cantor → x is as actual listings of all possible tree branches < 1551578189 541381 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think they're really irrelevant. < 1551578190 135257 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's a proper denotational semantics, in the sense that each function has only one denotation, and two functions with the same denotation are equal (it's also fully abstract, i.e. each denotation corresponds to some function) < 1551578212 144631 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, how about this: If you have predicates on some arbitrary type T, (T -> Bool), what do you demand from T in order to implement find? < 1551578270 514142 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, this is one of the cases where I think I know what the answer is, but don't have words available in any natural language to explain it < 1551578311 617025 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(edwardk probably knows) < 1551578332 164025 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I think the answer is "compactness" or maybe a little more than that. < 1551578389 364563 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the logic kind of compatness has anything to do with the calculus kind of compactness, other than the name? the logic one has the theorem that if any finite subset of a first order axiom system is satisfiable then the whole thing is satisfiable; the calculus kind says that a continuous function from a bounded closed subset of R^n is uniform continuous. < 1551578395 332086 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :both of those compactnesses are very useful. < 1551578442 490450 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the calculus one comes up all the time in proofs; the logic one comes up all the time in heuristics. < 1551578464 896939 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I wonder why the name is the same < 1551578469 238577 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm apparently today is Cantor's birthday < 1551578489 524797 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's probably some crazy logic reason behind it. < 1551578523 684014 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the topology kind of compactness is equivalent to "For any S of closed sets, if the intersection of any finite subset of S is nonempty, then the intersection of S is nonempty". < 1551578540 368726 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :set < 1551578612 365817 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you put it like that, I think it's the property I was looking for < 1551578622 633428 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't get there from the normal definition of compactness though < 1551578647 209813 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you write find with that? < 1551578650 654461 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1551578702 423704 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1551578732 160127 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I should read up on the Baire thing at some point and understand it at least a little < 1551578740 393168 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which thing? < 1551578746 305569 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Baire category theorem < 1551578775 430771 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what it says, but it's some topological property of the set of real numbers that lets you prove some things < 1551578790 841203 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The original motivation for thinking about these things is the fact that integration of computable functions is computable. < 1551578804 449977 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which wasn't obvious to me until I thought of it in these other terms. < 1551578897 137234 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm interested in knowing whether or not Analogia is computable < 1551578903 722450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're making it sound like it is < 1551578916 584995 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it wouldn't follow directly from that result < 1551578936 383718 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fwiw, I'm still uncertain whether or not it's TC; it's very easy to accidentally use an operation Analogia doesn't have in your attempted proof) < 1551579024 907070 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: in case it wasn't obvious from shachaf's statement, both of those are special cases of the topological one < 1551579046 348115 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :formfeed, huh < 1551579050 291424 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: um, both of what are special cases of what? < 1551579058 400450 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :both of the compactness theorems? < 1551579093 570630 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1551579098 417836 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or of the concept < 1551579128 556424 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :closed bounded intervals are topologically compact, from which you can prove the uniform continuity thing < 1551579138 458861 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, in that case the concept is clear < 1551579145 974194 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what the concept is in logic though < 1551579200 195493 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the calculus compactness also has the handy corollary that such functions are bounded) < 1551579225 718289 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Anyway I think the answer is probably something close to compactness as stated, but more computational. < 1551579234 502732 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe overtness is also involved?? < 1551579252 559588 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but that boundedness is weaker than we want, because I know at least one case when the compactness helps even though we know boundedness in advance) < 1551579534 567530 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also had a totally different maths question, but I forgot what it was < 1551579614 310976 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think one way of interpreting the logical compactness is to say that a "point" is a maximal set of consistent propositions, and then each proposition corresponds to the closed set of all points satisfying it < 1551579676 339704 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but what's the topology to which that is closed? < 1551579703 141498 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that trying to defined the topology with a co-base? < 1551579784 511788 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much < 1551579837 128373 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1551579857 313931 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you can join propositions with OR, you can just take propositions as the co-base, i think < 1551579859 908412 :housecarpenter!~housecarp@90.252.251.94 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1551579883 377660 :housecarpenter!~housecarp@90.252.251.94 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551580891 483718 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone here know about statistics < 1551580939 442570 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have some data and want to answer the question "do these data appear to be normally distributed" < 1551580947 988547 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a good way to do it? < 1551580953 737132 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551580962 18503 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know about the Kolmogorov-Smirnov test, it sounds like it does exactly this, but I've never used it before < 1551580989 892777 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not used it before either, so I don't know. < 1551581004 873972 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Statistics honestly left my head after I finished that class. < 1551581015 400447 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which made stochastic modelling... interesting. < 1551581055 118631 :orbitaldecay!44215d4a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.74 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1551581235 744774 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok there's a whole article about it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normality_test < 1551581280 468825 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my application, each dataset is a time series of the received signal strength on a particular radio frequency over time < 1551581312 682725 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to distinguish frequencies that are in use from those which are not. < 1551581332 403842 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's what it looks like https://i.imgur.com/Gwaz5p9.png (frequency on horizontal axis, time on vertical) < 1551581337 331962 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: why would the received signal strength be normal distributed? < 1551581351 307972 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for an unused frequency that is < 1551581356 300062 :housecarpenter!~housecarp@90.252.251.94 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1551581366 48191 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, but many noise processes are? < 1551581370 547182 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a default assumption < 1551581379 152567 :housecarpenter!~housecarp@90.252.251.94 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551581414 184198 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very convincing, but I guess you could try if it works for your application < 1551581414 481339 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my first attempt at solving this problem, which worked okay, is simply to take the standard deviation of each time series (each column in the plot) < 1551581446 894463 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the active frequencies are those which are above a certain threshold std. dev. < 1551581554 163227 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and are not within 16 kHz of a frequency with greater std. dev.) < 1551581673 661443 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you looking for modulated EM signals originating from extraterrestrial civilizations here? < 1551581677 620394 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1551581699 871865 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I suppose it's not completely unlike that :P < 1551581710 945906 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no I'm just looking at which ham radio frequencies are in use locally, and when < 1551581773 199363 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have got a little computer in my living room which scans the whole 2m band (144 - 148 MHz) every 4 seconds and logs the power levels < 1551581832 279221 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you can see some frequencies receive a lot of power all the time, probably due to manmade interference from the thousands of electronic devices in proximity, including the computer itself < 1551581852 940367 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is not a well-isolated or low-noise setup) < 1551581870 196661 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some of the actual signals on other frequencies are much weaker < 1551581878 317108 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can be distinguished by the fact that they aren't present all the time < 1551581933 185446 :housecarpenter!~housecarp@90.252.251.94 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1551582065 725307 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I bet I can distinguish them from skewness alone < 1551582067 1616 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://docs.scipy.org/doc/scipy-0.15.1/reference/generated/scipy.stats.skew.html < 1551582067 140174 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another simplistic solution is to just subtract the long-term average to remove all stationary noise. < 1551582088 117155 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1551582099 416648 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is smart and very simple < 1551582147 342384 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy to overcomplicate things with statistics < 1551582537 787049 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :only problem is, the background level of power seems to change over time < 1551582631 444438 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :here is a 25 hour recording: (warning, very tall image) https://ibin.co/w800/4Ys1u47OCtDS.png < 1551582679 986793 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :background noise comes and goes, who knows why. could be aliens, could be a lamp switching on somewhere < 1551582791 162236 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also if a very strong signal appears, the RF amplifier automatically decreases its gain, causing an apparent reduction in noise (and signal) on other frequencies < 1551582826 613270 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, it's fun to stare at such plots anyway < 1551582929 278895 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the raw data for that plot is a 30 MB gzip'd CSV < 1551582999 463150 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :giving the power (in dBm) at 4 kHz steps from 144 MHz up to (and not including) 148 MHz < 1551583002 428033 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :generated by the rtl_power utility < 1551583142 113365 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not necessary to tune each individual frequency in sequence, because the RTL-SDR hardware samples a full 2 MHz of spectrum at once. the 4 kHz bins are recovered by fast fourier transform < 1551583300 332331 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :software defined radio is really cool, but I already rambled about that here :P < 1551583361 343650 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1551583421 813703 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of lamps, I've noticed that if I transmit on the 70 cm band (around 440 MHz), the motion-activated floodlight on my deck turns on :P < 1551583531 158316 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got one of those DVB sticks that are allegedly a little useful for SDR, but never really got an antenna of any kind for it. < 1551584478 744016 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw, too bad < 1551584480 262938 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fun < 1551587174 159887 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551587456 187225 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1551588065 840874 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : > 1551591778 360480 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Featured languages/Recent14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60211&oldid=59223 5* 03Ais523 5* (+0) 10archive Funciton > 1551591839 197910 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Featured languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60212&oldid=59224 5* 03Ais523 5* (+888) 10/* Archive */ archive Funciton > 1551592347 407996 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Featured languages/Current14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60213&oldid=59225 5* 03Ais523 5* (-83) 10featured language blurb for [[Thue]] > 1551592390 539520 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Thue14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60214&oldid=55414 5* 03Ais523 5* (+22) 10{{featured language}} > 1551592411 48333 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Featured languages/Candidates14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60215&oldid=59227 5* 03Ais523 5* (-111) 10/* List of candidates */ Thue is now featured < 1551592428 493819 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, finding good languages to feature is hard < 1551592523 35052 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the candidates, either I don't think they were featurable at the moment due to substandard articles, being uninteresting as languages, or being too similar to Funciton; or else I'm personally involved in them or have nominated them, and thus can't make an unbiased judgement < 1551593295 836792 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the answer is to nominate none of them, and make someone else doit < 1551593300 965254 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it even < 1551593315 938066 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but admins historically don't update the featured language much < 1551593326 491420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we parked it on brainfuck a while ago because nobody was updating and it seemed like a safe place to park it < 1551593345 335035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one admin updating is an improvement, but means that it's hard to feature languages that that admin was involved in < 1551593356 343141 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1551593365 233533 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and Esolang admins tend to have been involved with lots of esolanguages just due to the nature of the job) < 1551593459 515984 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I guess this would be a good time for a candidate reset > 1551593478 547337 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Featured languages/Candidates14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60216&oldid=60215 5* 03Ais523 5* (-1146) 10/* List of candidates */ candidate reset; we're really due for one of these, I think < 1551593616 333404 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1551593654 51424 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the candidate list hadn't been reset since 2012 < 1551593657 845125 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551593682 32603 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems plausible that some of the people who posted there have had new ideas about languages they like within the last 7 years < 1551593692 309906 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "the featured language was stuck on BF for years" implies a good timing for it > 1551593709 487207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Hooloovoo 5* 10New user account < 1551593755 954721 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"infrequently" is fair enough, but 7 years is too long > 1551593892 839816 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60217&oldid=60183 5* 03Hooloovoo 5* (+207) 10 < 1551593924 749851 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds > 1551593939 14664 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Ais523 5* 10deleted "[[02FerNORo10]]": plagiarism of [[FerNANDo]]; not a copyvio (source is public domain), but this is just an existing language with OR/AND swapped in the spec (and inconsistently so), and the author name changed < 1551594362 310125 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1551594401 25426 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nominates all the joke languages < 1551594492 727612 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a joke language might be good for next month < 1551594511 524709 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :last we featured a language in april it was deadfish < 1551594544 529645 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, if you feature joke languages, April is a good time for it < 1551594599 663803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the most interesting joke languages out there? Unnecessary comes to mind < 1551594619 746711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TURKEY BOMB is one of the best joke languages but its article is a stub < 1551594676 91955 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esme also came to mind, but featuring that would ''not'' be a good idea < 1551594689 596450 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've known merthese for a long time, but I'm not sure it works as a featured lang < 1551594691 555669 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :u don say < 1551594812 11758 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Merthese doesn't have much to distinguish it from the other string-printing loopless imperative languages < 1551594827 736274 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a good example of those but we might be able to find a better one, if we want to feature most of those < 1551594842 269901 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not an esolang genre that's particularly popular among readers of the wiki, though (as opposed to writers) < 1551594860 409459 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1551594872 623888 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the article itself is great, though < 1551594952 432764 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's about what I was thinking < 1551594984 524060 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I just reread https://esolangs.org/wiki/Merthese and it was even better the second time < 1551594995 666482 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language is clearly a trainwreck, but it's a trainwreck that's had a lot of love and thought put into it < 1551595030 756185 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. first I missed the duplicate commands, and then I missed the resolution of the duplicate commands < 1551595102 448529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess what makes the language great is the development process < 1551595136 896529 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, all the @kerm, @nikky, etc are people who added the extension < 1551595198 19642 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't even reliably use it as a Deadfish-alike, because the command that increments the accumulator is sometimes interpreted as printing a newline instead < 1551595241 326113 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than x86 < 1551595291 698888 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, x86 doesn't have a command for printing newlines at all :-D < 1551595318 870475 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :I joined cemetech a bit too late to contribute to it (I guess I could have, but I was a nooob at the time) < 1551595411 528253 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I feel like binary lambda calculus should be extended < 1551595472 914663 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, tromp isn't on < 1551595476 519451 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what about HQ9+? we might have to expand the article a bit, but the language itself makes a point in a funny way, and is well-known < 1551595531 763385 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you feature a well-known thing < 1551595568 201809 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hichaf < 1551595586 944906 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well, it depends on what the purpose of featuring languages is < 1551595603 829090 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's maybe not well-known enough that every visitor to the wiki knows about it already, but it became well-known for a reason < 1551595614 496412 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :higan < 1551595727 774482 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about something competitive like bfjoust? < 1551595816 50953 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, BF Joust is definitely featurable < 1551595839 899174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I can't nominate it because I created the current version (although not the original version) < 1551595858 64221 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nominates it < 1551595883 471132 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :October would be a good month to do the actual featuring for that < 1551596162 228043 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :recently I had a friend link to https://esolangs.org/wiki/SyL < 1551596164 363897 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is grepping through irc logs < 1551596176 850790 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :response: wow, I feel like that system of numbers is maximally designed to fuck with Japanese speakers < 1551596192 402880 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :(response by timeroot) < 1551596480 505304 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1551596501 276033 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551596526 448040 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1551596548 421276 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551596573 192611 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1551596601 293148 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551596620 65655 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1551596646 283378 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551596659 965935 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing else too interesting, some fish, a chicken, other boring ones, etc < 1551596666 593063 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1551596693 469135 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551596713 407394 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1551596939 183868 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551597203 155067 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1551597435 653362 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@129.21.121.0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551597697 490682 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1551599330 387446 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551599668 167442 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.200.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551600888 751542 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1551605844 84273 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a009c3c45f4004d98e3.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1551606521 157577 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1551606528 774004 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-apdyqpwbxfbiexli JOIN :#esoteric < 1551606829 615563 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551607083 114791 :LKoen_!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a007573fd0fb7ca3620.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1551607287 242863 :LKoen_!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a007573fd0fb7ca3620.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Client Quit < 1551607301 91981 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a009c3c45f4004d98e3.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 257 seconds < 1551607302 45815 :LKoen_!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a007573fd0fb7ca3620.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1551608091 859557 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551610115 267164 :LKoen_!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a007573fd0fb7ca3620.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1551610132 671937 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a007573fd0fb7ca3620.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1551610192 63609 :LKoen_!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0081cb76a76da0c1a3.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1551610434 700192 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a007573fd0fb7ca3620.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1551612338 136294 :magickal!~joe@2605:e000:2415:7200:f03d:7165:766a:fe3e JOIN :#esoteric < 1551612399 49958 :magickal!~joe@2605:e000:2415:7200:f03d:7165:766a:fe3e PRIVMSG #esoteric :can someone help? can all magick be considered witchcraft? < 1551612620 562493 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might want to read the topic < 1551612758 211859 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1551614066 246861 :magickal!~joe@2605:e000:2415:7200:f03d:7165:766a:fe3e PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i c.. < 1551614070 987703 :magickal!~joe@2605:e000:2415:7200:f03d:7165:766a:fe3e PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1551614075 694205 :magickal!~joe@2605:e000:2415:7200:f03d:7165:766a:fe3e PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1551614564 949037 :LKoen_!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0081cb76a76da0c1a3.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's a cloning factory < 1551614570 35837 :LKoen_!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0081cb76a76da0c1a3.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got the wrong channel too < 1551614822 495718 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-apdyqpwbxfbiexli QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1551615669 333660 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551615790 832420 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1551615808 762325 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1551617701 626868 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: what framerate and exposure time do you use when measuring the power? < 1551618120 384844 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1551618181 210367 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: has /// been featured yet? < 1551618188 305053 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1551619836 509650 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aimqzcoqmprszkfn JOIN :#esoteric < 1551620530 736403 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1551622226 376867 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.comicgenesis.com/d/20190303.html < 1551622227 869811 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.comicgenesis.com/d/20190303.html: b_jonas < 1551622253 750038 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ehlist http://eheroes.smackjeeves.com/comics/2755886/when-inspiration-strikes/ < 1551622254 418827 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehlist http://eheroes.smackjeeves.com/comics/2755886/when-inspiration-strikes/: b_jonas < 1551627071 148316 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1551627618 786043 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aimqzcoqmprszkfn QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1551628177 526572 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1551628497 364282 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com < 1551628885 864329 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1551629886 980120 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lfaunijqtyrwqgmf JOIN :#esoteric < 1551630103 325821 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 'lr'{~?2 < 1551630103 956346 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: r < 1551631707 477109 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@129.21.121.0 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1551632336 389097 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551632427 383790 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1551633116 133907 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zuclfcmakuauiozn JOIN :#esoteric < 1551633954 414112 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode 𝑕 < 1551633955 631464 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+1D455 - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: f0 9d 91 95 UTF-16BE: d835dc55 Decimal: 𝑕 \ 𝑕 (𝑕) \ Uppercase: U+1D455 \ Category: Cn (Other, Not Assigned) < 1551633987 808183 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode 𝚨𝚩𝚪𝚫 < 1551633988 960822 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+1D6A8 MATHEMATICAL BOLD CAPITAL ALPHA \ UTF-8: f0 9d 9a a8 UTF-16BE: d835dea8 Decimal: 𝚨 \ 𝚨 \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ Decomposition: 0391 \ \ U+1D6A9 MATHEMATICAL BOLD CAPITAL BETA \ UTF-8: f0 9d 9a a9 UTF-16BE: d835dea9 Decimal: 𝚩 \ 𝚩 \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ Decomposition: 0392 \ \ U+1D6AA MATHEMATICAL BOLD CAPITAL GAMMA \ UTF-8: f0 9d < 1551633989 108278 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :𝚬𝚭𝚮𝚯𝚰𝚱𝚲 < 1551634889 581322 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it was. < 1551634897 769057 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Featured_languages says that slashes was featured < 1551634919 875419 :testitemqlstudop!~quassel@cpe-67-243-155-185.nyc.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1551634959 144304 :testitemqlstudop!~quassel@cpe-67-243-155-185.nyc.res.rr.com PART :#esoteric < 1551634975 344539 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, we could consider featuring befunge. afaik ais523 doesn't have much connection to it, but the esolang community at large does < 1551635594 552502 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :my honored and learned friend fungot, your source code is on whose T-shirt? < 1551635594 835183 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: anyone familiar with the fourstack idea didn't the person who introduced me to it. it routinely takes me 30+ minutes to fall asleep < 1551636001 753036 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551636107 301693 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1551636261 105631 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Befunge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60218&oldid=58624 5* 03B jonas 5* (+543) 10language overview. let me try to improve the description a little so we can feature this. < 1551636320 276578 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1551636412 444422 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Befunge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60219&oldid=60218 5* 03B jonas 5* (+2) 10move history below the language overview, to make the article a better introduction. < 1551636524 194697 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should somehow move the "fungeoid" part out of the introduction, to the history stuff, and make the introd paragraph more informative < 1551636712 687330 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ QUIT :Quit: CHEAPIE! What did you do to the bouncer?! :P (jk) < 1551636717 331017 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/Fungeoid says "Fungeoids, specifically Befunge, have the canonical goal of being REALLY hard to compile", but that seems to contradict https://esolangs.org/wiki/Nopfunge being a fungeoid < 1551636766 288010 :rdococ!rdococ@cheapiesystems.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1551637220 972510 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lfaunijqtyrwqgmf QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1551637246 384787 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Befunge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60220&oldid=60219 5* 03B jonas 5* (+246) 10mention fungot; remove fungeoids from the first paragraph, they're mentioned later anyway < 1551637321 751069 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` \? fu\ngot < 1551637325 540780 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot is our beloved channel mascot and voice of reason. < 1551639663 217026 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551639919 294705 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iamksrunfevodepi JOIN :#esoteric > 1551640519 707488 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Works in progress14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60221&oldid=59261 5* 03Cortex 5* (+14) 10 < 1551640530 393111 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1551640994 745931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Featured languages/Candidates14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60222&oldid=60216 5* 03B jonas 5* (+656) 10/* List of candidates */ > 1551641053 513056 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Featured languages/Candidates14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60223&oldid=60222 5* 03B jonas 5* (+94) 10/* List of candidates */ > 1551641152 154632 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Cortex14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60224&oldid=60100 5* 03Cortex 5* (+14) 10 > 1551642272 570215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60225&oldid=60210 5* 03Cortex 5* (+515) 10 < 1551642664 210591 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zuclfcmakuauiozn QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1551642920 784187 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 29*1.609344 < 1551642921 477742 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 46.671 < 1551643486 296884 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I wonder how you could write sane M:tG rules text for a card like this: Three Wise Men / 1GWU / Sorcery / Look at the top five cards of your library. You may reveal a creature card from among them and cast it. When that spell resolves, put three +1/+1 counters on the permanent it becomes. < 1551643997 344265 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it look like OK the way it is < 1551644119 196207 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what do you think could be done to get better efficiency from the low ascii codepoints in utf-8 < 1551644141 407118 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously it would be incompatible but how could you do it while preserving the nice properties of utf8 < 1551644149 494496 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you can't < 1551644267 531897 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i,i UTF-EBCDIC < 1551644296 810905 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a real efficiency problem there? < 1551644404 178423 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: give commonly used codepoints lower values < 1551644464 737360 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :j4cbo: Yes, that reduces the number of bytes needed to encode that number as UTF-8 < 1551644479 138866 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure there's that much of a point. While in principle you could get better efficiency, any such gain would be fairly minimal. < 1551644495 648987 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... and you could get more mileage out of just using a common compression algorithm instead. < 1551644545 148402 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551644590 868305 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you can do that < 1551644626 423451 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :UCS-4! < 1551644719 604443 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah, that was my conclusion < 1551644942 573046 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are Unicode encodings which allow binding one-byte codes to frequently used characters for that specific document. but stateful codes are nasty (looking at you, ISO 2022) and I think a separate compression layer would almost always be better < 1551644973 30769 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the best things about UTF-8 is that it's self synchronizing < 1551644995 124978 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and it is compatible with ASCII < 1551645018 752913 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1551645323 675224 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. SCSU is kinda cute as a concept, but it's going to be somewhat rare that it's worth it. < 1551645375 747409 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mostly if you have the need to compress, seperately, many different very short strings. Where "very short" here means "tweet sized".) < 1551645388 743345 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was kinda :psyduck: when some random blog post pointed out to me that 0xC0 is never a valid byte in UTF-8 < 1551645415 596016 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that a lead byte for a surrogate? < 1551645432 923333 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may have got the specific byte wrong < 1551645435 462412 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, no, for an over-long encoding. < 1551645442 352200 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1551645451 462141 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :PH: yes, there are four invalid bytes < 1551645454 669773 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :0xC0 would be for a two-byte encoding of something under 0x7f. < 1551645460 700714 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: There's more than that. < 1551645465 432052 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the lead byte for a multibyte sequence which would have enough leading zeroes to not need a multibyte sequence < 1551645477 700448 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no, there are two invalid bytes because they would start the encoding of an ascii character, and two invalid bytes because they would start a too long encoding < 1551645482 288231 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :0xF5 through 0xFF are also invalid. < 1551645511 230695 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But those are would be used to encode a codepoint over U+10FFFF. < 1551645517 339105 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*those would < 1551645518 241397 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah, now that they claim that the largest character value can be 0x10FFFF, those are invalid too < 1551645525 894761 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/claim/define/ < 1551645557 530440 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they're unlikely to go back on that, since that limitation exists so UTF-16 can work, and UTF-16 is gonna be hard to kill. < 1551645563 393892 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they'll change that later anyway when they start running out of the 17 planes. currently they only started 3 planes, plus a little bit of one more plane, plus one for non-standard user-defined stuff < 1551645577 898902 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but people may want to encode non-characters in utf-8, for private purposes like formatting < 1551645600 633127 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so -- UTF-16 is a bit too entrenched. < 1551645616 787875 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: true, but then, if they need more space for characters they will do something < 1551645630 555823 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :the amount of damage done in the 5-year period when Unicode was 16 bits is staggering < 1551645633 187442 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF-16 was already entranched when they decided to go for more than the prime material plane < 1551645656 278206 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: that was UCS-2 < 1551645665 847039 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh so that then < 1551645679 233954 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I have some doubts they'll even really need to go much past the assigned planes. < 1551645683 700525 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :wchar_t, etc < 1551645725 143023 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Considering well over half of the supplementary multilingual plane is unassigned, and the supplementary ideographic plane is running out of CJK characters to encode. < 1551645759 443066 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Codes that are encoding above U+10FFFF are just not going to encode valid Unicode characters, but otherwise it may be considered as valid in some cases. < 1551645786 646165 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :j4cbo: truth < 1551645793 720934 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows, Java, and JavaScript all adopted UCS-2 :( < 1551645811 60905 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mankind will never be free of the scourge of JavaScript < 1551645814 815318 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's with us for the rest of civilization < 1551645820 882221 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did they put characters on the astral plane anyway? are those just to make it easier to test that software is compatible with that? < 1551645826 702961 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF-16 is helpful when working with Unicode text in JavaScript, since JavaScript strings are sequences of 16-bit characters. < 1551645842 614307 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :USB, too < 1551645848 720709 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: which characters? < 1551645852 9935 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Because the BMP is is almost entirely full. < 1551645858 364151 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no no < 1551645868 404283 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Unicode has more than 2^16 (minus surrogate pairs) codepoints, so the astral planes are required < 1551645869 507584 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :webassembly will save us < 1551645869 812828 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I mean the astral plane, the one that starts at 0x100000 < 1551645876 193903 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :webassembly will make everything right again < 1551645878 133357 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: that's not what astral plane means < 1551645884 23448 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's any plane besides the basic plane < 1551645889 902031 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? bmp < 1551645890 979512 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bmp? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1551645892 26678 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it's also not what prime material plane means, but meh < 1551645894 219704 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :the USB spec says “strings in descriptors shall be Unicode” < 1551645894 282072 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: That's private use area. < 1551645903 166052 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1551645903 381838 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it? < 1551645905 595795 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an irrational loathing for WebAssembly because it's contributing to Rust getting ruined by web hipsters < 1551645910 773947 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :they mean UTF-16, I forget which endianness < 1551645915 885299 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that another plane? < 1551645915 944281 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The entire U+10xxxx plane is a private use area. < 1551645918 412557 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 'we're too boring and shit to put tengwar in unicode proper' area < 1551645919 153353 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1551645926 573613 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, haha < 1551645930 995431 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they want Cargo to adopt "best practices from NPM", when somebody pointed out that there was no such thing their comment was deleted by moderators < 1551645932 856056 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does sound a bit... mad from what ive heard < 1551645934 221260 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :WebAssembly may be a reasonable VM code, but that doesn't mean that Rust or JavaScript or any other programming language would be avoided < 1551645938 348386 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :criticism is not allowed in the Rust community < 1551645939 150537 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As is U+Fxxxx, and U+E000-U+F8FF. < 1551645939 990759 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahahaha i remember that kmc < 1551645957 357603 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because all criticism is "unconstructive" < 1551645959 698767 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was part of the whole 'welcome our new community manager' < 1551645964 501672 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeahhhhhhhh < 1551645971 252557 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :'i dont want to welcome someone who goes around saying kill all men on twitter' < 1551645979 581675 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :'wow banned for misogynist harrassment' < 1551645983 510164 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1551645989 845641 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really shouldn't bring it up, because that whole incident upsets me a great deal < 1551646003 620867 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :those kinds of people are why i don't feel comfortable in open source anymore :/ < 1551646003 782174 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's some grade A bullshit though.3 < 1551646029 335495 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :it upsets me in principle too ive just positioned myself so they mostly dont matter in my life < 1551646034 798436 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if you work in open source you do not have to deal with all of the open source projects < 1551646046 605201 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: me too, but I have unresolved trauma re: being trans and stuff < 1551646048 311831 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :paranoid proprietary bullshit has its upsides i suppose < 1551646058 169945 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :being trans fucking sucks, i'll say that much < 1551646078 908501 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods < 1551646088 941205 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the same time I don't think i'd press a magic button to be not trans < 1551646090 596527 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's complicated < 1551646098 681556 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Identity tends to be. < 1551646104 344575 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1551646109 476883 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :people tend to be < 1551646112 154110 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :this reminds me of the wikipedia page on paperclip optimisation < 1551646113 299005 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(UTF-16 would also be helpful in my proposed X 12 core font system; if the font is a Unicode font, then astral characters are just considered ligatures of the surrogate pairs, so if ligatures are enabled then you can work with Unicode text.) < 1551646130 853263 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is X12 the successor to X11? < 1551646142 72066 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway one of my poor naive colleagues was asking me the other day what he was supposed to do with a core dump < 1551646146 487020 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yes < 1551646152 845463 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: lol < 1551646156 738651 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :load it into GDB! < 1551646158 622828 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There are other things too I have proposed to do it) < 1551646166 471635 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :(poor naive = plucked from a stem degree and trained in kdb and little else) < 1551646167 964890 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suspects another zzo38 vapourware project. < 1551646173 536250 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can even run a coredump < 1551646198 39867 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, yeah except how much debug info do you think kx systems compile into their binary < 1551646198 120994 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe they're regular files, so rm can handle them < 1551646204 540672 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551646209 733701 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1551646214 854601 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: hah < 1551646214 912004 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1551646218 107271 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :kx 'our entire database package fits into L2 instruction cache!!!!' systems < 1551646221 859569 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs has a "feature" where you can initialize all the bloat, core dump it, and then use that initialized image to start emacs faster < 1551646226 705249 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another thing of my X12 is that a mouse cursor position is allowed to be null (which is different from zero), although this might not be implemented on all implementations. < 1551646229 625426 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I imagine breaks a lot of modern things like ASLR < 1551646231 535671 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but whatever < 1551646235 39121 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: but only if you can find them *glares at systemd* < 1551646236 899137 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :isnt that why ais523 invented feather < 1551646239 649147 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you have any significant involvement in befunge? I'm asking because of potential featured langauge status < 1551646245 114320 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well, the equivalent but with smalltalk < 1551646251 728255 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: not really any more than the rest of the esolang community < 1551646253 412962 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was that awesome Linux vuln involving coredumping in /etc/cron.d < 1551646264 944933 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've written a few programs in it, and I wrote an FFI between INTERCAL and Befunge < 1551646267 630871 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :PH: there's no such thing as "L2 instruction cache". L2 cache doesn't know the distinction between code and data < 1551646275 952097 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I wouldn't be afraid to feature it < 1551646285 977946 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it knows the distinction between reading and writing, but it's still not a separate instruction cache < 1551646293 955466 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: are you sure that's universally true... < 1551646294 333559 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :great! < 1551646298 497088 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :but b_jonas do the guys making acquisition decisions in investment banks know that < 1551646299 217230 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: no < 1551646304 323206 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the cures of the featured language that people make erivatives of it? < 1551646308 808698 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: but Kx isn't so portable < 1551646310 571349 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think systemd would upset me less if it had actually been designed with clear defined API boundaries between components, permitting alternate implementations. < 1551646324 348301 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could get a setuid program to core dump in /etc/cron.d, with a valid crontab entry somewhere in its memory space < 1551646328 818116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well, BF was the featured language for ages so we don't have much evidence < 1551646334 65478 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :systemd just upsets me because lennart seems to be an antisocial psycho < 1551646339 897839 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, curse, not cures. < 1551646341 991720 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cron will happily skip over megabytes of binary garbage and execute that crontab entry < 1551646343 525676 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Also that. < 1551646355 713262 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vspvzkrgabrhkeyk JOIN :#esoteric < 1551646366 798780 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :and apparently nobody making decisions in the entire linux world thinks 'hmm maybe we shouldnt give this guy supreme political influence over the entire system' < 1551646389 348597 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: ~robustness principle~ < 1551646403 44942 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :p o s t e l ' s ~ l a w < 1551646405 938187 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really the worst thing < 1551646418 162622 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I think they ported that Emacs "feature" to some portable representation that's compatible with ASLR. < 1551646424 865543 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ok < 1551646434 734075 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I mean honestly, ESR is still respected in some corners. < 1551646452 644149 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :well he's a shithead in ways largely orthogonal to software < 1551646458 292246 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't exactly respect ESR but I appreciate some things he's said more than I used to < 1551646473 747809 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :also lmao i occasionally remember the period of my youth wasted on rationalwiki < 1551646475 535392 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Getting people to question that requires people to question that maybe an egotistic shithead should be questioned rather than just accepted. < 1551646478 284439 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's just because i hate the wokelords who hate him < 1551646483 232996 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: lol < 1551646484 247963 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me repeat my question then. fungot's befunge source code is printed on whose T-shirt? < 1551646484 431746 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: no. i think he's normally asleep at this time it was the next thing i need < 1551646487 186288 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it is that, hth < 1551646488 409619 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :and im like "hmm what was the last thing i did there" < 1551646490 743669 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yeah < 1551646491 973135 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: re Postel's Law, it strikes me that there are two modes in which a program can run: fail fast, and try to make things work even when they're broken < 1551646492 265970 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :asleep huh? < 1551646505 153259 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former is much better for development, and for the future of the system; the latter is better for the present < 1551646513 841278 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i remember that it was using my lingering social status as a high volume shitposter in aid of emily's crusade against ESR < 1551646517 813985 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :live fast, die young, bad code does it well < 1551646535 526594 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I mean okay, as far as software goes ESR's worst sin is that he just doesn't really... matter. < 1551646542 235360 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1551646546 589860 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1551646551 410184 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"<--- I'M WITH THOSE GUYS" < 1551646552 677702 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: most of my programs are full of asserts and fail fast < 1551646566 502516 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's only influential in terms of writing about software. < 1551646567 271407 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :both asserts checking input that I didn't appreciate in advance, and internal bugs < 1551646567 321202 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas david gerard was quite insistent that rationalwiki's take be "this ELITE HACKER GOD WHO BUILT THE INTERNET later went crazy after 9/11" < 1551646578 490005 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and to be fair, some of his writing about software is, well, still worth reading) < 1551646590 176749 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about his dating advice < 1551646590 478831 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still talk to emily... we have a complicated history but I like her < 1551646591 529264 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: my preferred principle is to work out what inputs /could/ be correct, in that a) they're not an obvious sign of a bug existing, and b) we can define plausible and unsurprising output in that case < 1551646598 185759 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh, set that on fire. < 1551646600 68460 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then, when an assert of the first kind triggers, or I anticipate that it will trigger, I make the program more robust for those inputs; < 1551646608 530442 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the second kind of assert triggers, I try to fix the bug < 1551646617 204516 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then document the function as supporting only those inputs < 1551646620 173120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, fail fast on everything else < 1551646623 220761 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yeah, life hasn't been the kindest to her. < 1551646629 901638 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously. < 1551646634 753771 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither have i, at times < 1551646637 753109 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :your former type of assert is an interesting idea < 1551646638 723846 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b/c of my own bullshit < 1551646662 960771 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes the asserts even need some extra computation just to detect problems < 1551646670 905772 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: back to earlier topic, EMDR therapy is p. esoteric < 1551646689 79756 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinking about upsetting things is healing if you move your eyes back and forth while you do it??? < 1551646692 137964 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nobody knows why < 1551646695 426038 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :brains are weird < 1551646701 766034 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :🧠 < 1551646702 696076 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmao < 1551646709 425668 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :buffer overflow in eye movement code < 1551646714 540726 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: this reminds me; a while ago I was looking for a way to determine whether asserts were enabled in Java (so as to produce extra debug information in that case) < 1551646716 901158 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :allows overwriting of upset buffer < 1551646722 555367 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1551646724 372131 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, a good lesson I learned from writing programs is to try to represent data compactly, in the sense that there's no redundancy as in state stored multiple times such that they have to be consistent, because whenever you have redundancy, you often later modify the program and forget about what invariants you wanted to keep < 1551646729 450569 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it turns out that the only official method is to write an assert condition with side effects < 1551646739 863690 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously there are exceptions from this when you need redundancy for efficiency < 1551646739 959521 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best theory I've heard is that it emulates REM sleep, but I don't know how much of an ass-pull that is < 1551646747 129606 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boolean assertsEnabled = false; assert(!(assertsEnabled = true)); < 1551646754 68744 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, no ! there < 1551646757 932722 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boolean assertsEnabled = false; assert((assertsEnabled = true)); < 1551646768 113906 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember you introducing me to the bicameral mind thesis ages ago in here kmc < 1551646776 676155 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: do you know of public examples of good high-performance api design twh < 1551646781 826243 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there should be multiple assert levels, each of which can be disabled either at runtime or compile time < 1551646783 690886 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has stuck in my head for being particularly interesting even though im 80% sure its total bullshit < 1551646793 378698 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's more or less true in C too, because someone might redefine or reundefine _NDEBUG without reincluding < 1551646796 600598 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I think I learned of it from Snow Crash < 1551646801 202256 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, it's almost certainly bullshit < 1551646802 639245 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1551646805 531602 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, I don't use the actual assert macro from C < 1551646819 5201 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes, but in this situation, the value of _NDEBUG is what I'd care about more than the actual behaviour of assert < 1551646823 100423 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rust's debug logging is kind of nice, you can enable/disable for any subtree in the module tree < 1551646828 760984 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(module/crate tree) < 1551646832 145917 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm trying to detect a debug versus release build, not the actual behaviour of the assert macro < 1551646845 627861 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :debug loggin < 1551646848 342265 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :im crying < 1551646866 855648 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, don't knock printf debugging. < 1551646867 847679 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1551646870 484706 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rust has that too < 1551646871 431110 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :because at work we have a guy who's the only one who really cares about architecture and gets shit done < 1551646878 861805 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if cfg!(debug) < 1551646881 55068 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1551646894 35476 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :look around you is tg < 1551646898 351609 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it's the brain" < 1551646902 613700 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he added some debugging code which means that our logs are now 90% duplicated spam < 1551646904 895955 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh darn, gmane is not available. I'll have to look if an alternate archive exists for this mail < 1551646913 350544 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfg's can be used as compiler directives, user-defined conditional compilation, or compile-time constants, or build-system rules < 1551646931 59986 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i was like 'man these log messages are really repetitive and useless, can i disable them' < 1551646931 956291 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :context free grammars are often used as compiler directives < 1551646935 742227 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :'no i find them really useful' < 1551646941 290361 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: look around you is tg < 1551646946 780563 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but now i cant read any other fucking log messages!! < 1551646962 740262 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :«if cfg!(debug){...}» looks weird, I'd expect something more along the lines of «#[if(cfg(debug))]{…}» < 1551646964 552161 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :PH: yeah, at that point I direct those messages to a separate file < 1551646980 597372 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. conditionally compiling, rather than unconditionally compiling dead code (and then presumably optimisingit out) < 1551647003 646991 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :also a lot of our code alternately use two different logging functions, one of which logs in the local timezone and one of which logs in UTC < 1551647004 65128 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: such a thing exists, yes, but only for items, not for statements in rust < 1551647010 145563 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to put yoru conditional stuff in a separate function < 1551647010 892292 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is exceedingly confusing < 1551647012 672165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: aimake has something like 4 or 5 verbosity levels for debug logging because some of them are both useful and /really/ spammy < 1551647019 156565 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :static if is tg < 1551647034 772431 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :have two versions of the function, conditionally, with the same name, and call it < 1551647042 877683 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should conditional compilation just be a regular if in a meta-level language? < 1551647044 868801 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh lawdy < 1551647054 288065 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :“the local timezone” < 1551647062 996723 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well, that's how it works in C < 1551647070 369129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#if is basically just a regular statement in cpp the language < 1551647071 181216 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe that's no longer true with the macro advancements now < 1551647075 678727 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except CPP is very different from C. < 1551647093 55726 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the same language. < 1551647094 129087 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :j4cbo: I have seen some disturbingly large environments where the local timezone ends up mattering... < 1551647096 637460 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed; there's no obvious reason other than programmer familiarity why the two languages should be the samea < 1551647096 749018 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :any code in a server that tries to read the “local timezone” should trip an assert < 1551647099 560943 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh me too < 1551647113 736946 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :there’s a test suite at work that only passes if you set your system tz correctly < 1551647116 963486 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :it’s vile < 1551647118 661793 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yeah, I was trying to design a language that is preprocessing all the way down, with infinitely many layers, each of which produce a program for the layer below it, and the layer isomorphic to each other < 1551647120 609069 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :j4cbo: I think it's a good idea to use capabilities for things like timezones < 1551647130 527147 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, if it's the same language, you can reuse code to do compile-time computation and so on. < 1551647131 532378 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a function is only given access to the timezone if it actually needs it < 1551647133 668630 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, the C++ concept guys are trying that. < 1551647135 33470 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :kdb has nice concise shortcuts for both UTC and system timestamps < 1551647137 520957 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: You've mentioned. < 1551647138 505407 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like the idea much < 1551647145 783769 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: But I want this for practical rather than theoretical reasons. < 1551647149 834884 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A former employer of mine set all their servers to use the timezone of corporate HQ. < 1551647151 20243 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no clue why anyone on our team was dumb enough to use the system tz ones < 1551647163 552287 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: mine too < 1551647176 608029 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if we're talking about the same employer < 1551647182 25669 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :j4cbo: really, timezones aren't even the biggest problem, the largest environment-related issue I see (other than encoding, which is something of a separate topic as correct behaviour is hard to define) is decimal separators < 1551647200 527348 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :a company out of Mountain View that made lots of money from tiny classified ads? < 1551647207 506539 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the one. < 1551647212 384502 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think the syntax is like #[cfg(debug_assertions)] < 1551647232 955869 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do either. cfg!() is a macro that expands to a boolean constant < 1551647238 348208 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have most of the Rust preprocessor syntax memorised < 1551647251 454019 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas #[cfg(...)] is conditional removal of a lexical scope < 1551647254 198812 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like #[cfg(debug_assertions)] fn foo() { /* print stuff here */ } #[cfg(not(debug_assertions))] fn foo() {} fn bar() { ... foo() ... } < 1551647270 747915 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah < 1551647271 522056 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like Rust; I've written a few (small but serious) programs in it and it's almost as fast as writing in a scripting language, but the resulting programs run much faster and are more likely to be correct < 1551647282 804639 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so e.g. #[cfg(thing_thats_false)] { type_error } will not error, but if cfg!(thing_thats_false) { type_error} will < 1551647290 900908 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :each is useful in different circumstances < 1551647293 121128 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's lots to like there, and some things that are a bit frustrating. < 1551647295 138494 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can’t format an integer in a non-locale-dependent way in c++14 < 1551647320 277797 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, it will eventually become a good language. I should fix the few library programs it has with a custom library and then I should be able to use it. < 1551647333 658374 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't remove a whole item (function, type, etc) with cfg!() but you can't use #[cfg] in an expression < 1551647340 739900 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FWIW, I believe that it is incorrect to ever format an integer in a locale-dependent way, unless the result is output directly to a human without being stored accessibly in memory < 1551647345 233443 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(WHY would you give all these powerful tools for memory safety and error handling, and then "oh, and we just crash on OOM") < 1551647350 797857 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it's not a preprocessor, but yeah < 1551647360 554099 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :std::to_chars showed up in C++17 < 1551647370 919396 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the syntax is fairly simple. a cfg expression is either an identifier, identifier = "string", or identifier(cfg_item) < 1551647374 187593 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's all() and any() < 1551647375 899709 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not() < 1551647376 228326 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yeah, presentation for a human and serializing to a string are two distinct problems. < 1551647379 271030 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell has made me intrinsically suspicious of seeing compiler directives ahead of functions < 1551647396 176139 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OSes don't handle OOM conditions in the way that programmers would like them to, unless memory limits have been set explicitly < 1551647397 491085 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are also other #[...] attributes besides cfg, which are like traditional compiler pragmas, but lexically scoped < 1551647403 636997 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :although in rust they seem to be generally comprehensible to the human mind < 1551647404 723352 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lexical scoping for warnings is nice < 1551647411 478991 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: s/OSes don't/Linux doesn't/ < 1551647415 846764 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's allow, warn, deny, and forbid < 1551647422 284760 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forbid is like deny except you can't allow inside forbid < 1551647434 455769 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that a no-physical-memory-allocation-failure OOM doesn't necessarily hit the program that caused the problem < 1551647435 735777 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's pretty necessary in a systems language < 1551647439 239695 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh yeah. I got some surprise when vbscript printed booleans as "IGAZ" and "HAMIS" by default. C++ has the sane default, printing them as "0" and "1". in vbscript you have to -0 for that < 1551647446 668169 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it’s relic from when you could safely assume that anyone who would care about the output from a computer lived in the same city as said computer < 1551647453 821132 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Windows doesn't either, Windows' OOM behaviour is to swap everything possible out of memory, and increase the size of the swap file if it doesn't fit < 1551647454 465820 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, i know its necessary for sufficiently low-level stuff < 1551647458 521478 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :many of them control linkage, etc < 1551647462 99840 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Eh, fair. < 1551647463 494616 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :“system locale”, “system time zone”, etc < 1551647469 725867 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it looks nicer than __attribute__((bleh)) < 1551647478 130589 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the difference between lexical and dynamic scoping for warnings? < 1551647481 61083 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and then freeze in a way that only the power button helps < 1551647486 70468 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably at some point the hard disk ends up full, but you'll never reach that point; the system runs so slowly that the user will be force-quitting things and/or force-powering-off the system < 1551647489 374187 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :im just used to seeing any serious haskell include pragmas for like half a dozen arcane ghc extensions < 1551647492 165627 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope one day I get to the point where I can use Rust without feeling icky < 1551647494 446654 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: And yes, how OSes signal memory pressure needs some work. But at the same time, if(!malloc()) abort(); is just shit. < 1551647497 121827 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can force-quit things? < 1551647506 114576 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never managed to when it ran out of memory < 1551647511 378313 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: via Ctrl-Alt-Del, although under heavy swapping it's very slow < 1551647512 405328 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well, I mean as opposed to linear file scope, like preprocessor < 1551647525 104427 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux has the amazing Alt-Sysrq-F, although it's disabled by default < 1551647536 12055 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's defined as "guess which process I want to kill, and kill it" < 1551647537 901381 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially if you still care about 32-bit platforms, where you can hit that on running out of virtual memory for the process without too much difficulty. < 1551647547 414915 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OOM is really hard problem < 1551647555 333392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :under heavy swapping it's often the only plausible way to kill the offending program without causing a lot of collateral damage < 1551647565 884649 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there's no need to guess, it's always firefox-esr < 1551647592 153777 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: both Firefox and Chrome have a multiprocess architecture nowadays, so often alt-sysrq-f kills a few browser tabs rather than the browser as a whole < 1551647593 700183 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: It's a really hard problem to solve ideally, but not even trying is irritating. < 1551647614 674156 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially in a language that's selling itself on solving hard problems around memory and error handling. < 1551647618 338126 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :abort() is TG < 1551647625 482310 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe that the correct solution to physical memory shortage is to automatically set memory limits for programs < 1551647631 674615 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to some heuristic < 1551647632 479439 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but why would I want to kill just a few browser tabs? firefox is good enough at remembering session history, saving it quite frequently just until it starts to lag < 1551647638 323037 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and report memory shortage to the program when it hits its limit < 1551647645 171360 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked the argument this person was making the other day that what you really want is a variant of abort that doesn't terminate the entire process. < 1551647646 92694 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: because they're typically the offending ones < 1551647656 254667 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But is local to some library or something. < 1551647664 3672 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, they do change the binary name every few years, it used to be firefox-bin at some point and iceweasel at some other point < 1551647675 326120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that's pretty much what an exception is < 1551647677 590535 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is much more coarse-grained than RAII or whatever. < 1551647697 110415 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exceptions are way more complicated. < 1551647713 595792 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes, but does the complexity hurt in this case? < 1551647718 205341 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: All that said, I can't fault it too hard when very few languages do anything other than what Rust is doing here... < 1551647718 807764 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :good news! I might be switching from an insulin pump powered by a Renesas H8 and Microchip PIC16 to one powered by an STM32 < 1551647724 57490 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not clear. on my system the offending ones are the ones that play video, the video playback runs at a too high priority so firefox can't react to the GUI events like trying to close a tab < 1551647735 754358 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For stuff that's vaguely mainstream, we've got alternative approaches offered by: C, and C++. < 1551647738 28954 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I can "killall 'Web Content'", fun < 1551647738 514040 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it can crawl even without running out of memory < 1551647740 908669 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complexity always hurts. < 1551647745 379489 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't think I need to elaborate on the problems there. < 1551647751 425105 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :j4cbo: What happened to the one powered by \rainbow{JavaScript}? < 1551647769 564807 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, the fix for that is probably to buy a stronger desktop computer hardware for myself < 1551647770 833435 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like you were saying something about that once. < 1551647773 39809 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still < 1551647780 513627 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that’s < 1551647781 922940 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so C's approach is for malloc to return NULL, which normally either ends up calling abort() via a wrapper function, or causing SIGSEGV when the returned pointer is used without checking < 1551647785 575838 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :still a thing < 1551647795 376121 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The language itself permits you to handle it more cleanly. < 1551647795 818702 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :the closed loop I’m using now is mostly Swift though < 1551647797 10567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and C++'s approach is to throw std::bad_alloc, which rarely gets caught except by the outermost exception handler, so the program exits < 1551647803 881935 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if nobody... does. < 1551647811 223113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though the languages have different approaches, the actual practical behaviour is very similar < 1551647829 216828 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Banning exceptions is probably a pretty reasonable thing to do. < 1551647837 819903 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And perhaps the worst thing is, in C a lot of libraries have that behavior as well, so you're kinda fucked. < 1551647847 549409 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you do use exceptions you have to manage all your resources with RAII-style things. < 1551647855 510749 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good luck handling OOM robustly when your GUI toolkit doesn't. < 1551647858 227398 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a long-running program, it is often the right idea to make it so it saves its state to the file system occasionally, because it could crash in ways other than out of memory, such as power lost or hardware dying < 1551647863 711966 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fuck you GTK) < 1551647882 749813 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried writing some GTK code a few days ago. < 1551647888 907450 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was so demoralizing that I gave up on programming. < 1551647911 32455 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hmm. doesn't your job involve programming? < 1551647912 611452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO the correct solution is to a) ban unchecked exceptions, b) stop using exceptions in situations where it's possible that they could never come up < 1551647912 661486 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know they style widgets with CSS now? < 1551647915 619345 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Qt even lets you do this better: on std::bad_alloc, you can't go back into Qt, it'll be in an invalid state, but it doesn't crash. You can catch the exception in main() and at least save some state before dying.) < 1551647916 946095 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: what job hth < 1551647941 675750 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've no idea < 1551647950 889207 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what everyone else in this channel does in real life < 1551647952 536611 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I believe that there are no good GUI libraries < 1551647955 112871 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(what real life?) < 1551647966 987285 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Hmm, why? < 1551647979 296982 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, all the standard ones are certainly quite bad. < 1551647984 360347 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of them suck in terms of API or in terms of what they don't let you do < 1551648003 278515 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: agreed, all of them suck < 1551648003 892725 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few of them don't (e.g. Java Swing's API is actually pretty good), but those tend to be terrible in other respects (there's a reason hardly anyone uses Swing nowadays) < 1551648004 482240 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is https://github.com/ocornut/imgui good? < 1551648009 872341 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: do you still work for the place I interviewed that time? < 1551648019 701216 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iamksrunfevodepi QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1551648039 58404 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I quit a while ago. < 1551648055 311079 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: outputting the GUI as an image immediately makes it incompatible with other programs on the same OS < 1551648056 103489 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And have been uncertain what to do with my life etc. < 1551648068 265972 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: How do you mean? < 1551648091 56861 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: imagine things like accessibility programs that need to do tree-walking of the GUI structure < 1551648097 301236 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hear leaving the Bay Area and going out to live in a commune is popular these days. < 1551648108 674753 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Accessibility is a good point that I'm not quite sure about. < 1551648122 358187 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't think that style of UI necessarily requires that you output the GUI as just an image. < 1551648129 439797 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION moved to Montana < 1551648130 774512 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can include widget metadata and things. < 1551648143 606299 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't believe it's theoretically impossible to create a good GUI library < 1551648148 795001 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that I'd be surprised if one existed at the moment < 1551648151 481348 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just moved back home to Colorado < 1551648211 828199 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, that's fair. < 1551648218 936614 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know what a good one would look like? < 1551648248 849623 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remain in scotland < 1551648253 393280 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :implacable and resolute < 1551648270 973744 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551648283 419509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551648289 637893 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : not fully; I have some ideas but they probably aren't enough by themselves < 1551648297 268050 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: living in a commune in the bay area is also popular < 1551648316 971471 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite what one might think I am not that excited (anymore) about the idea of living in a commune < 1551648323 991444 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: At the rate things are going, you might end up changing citizenship without doing much of anything. < 1551648336 921626 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What are the ideas? < 1551648345 379661 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: What about fully automated gay space communism? < 1551648375 43462 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :wheres the luxury < 1551648378 309619 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a friend of mine started a vegan sex commune < 1551648384 415773 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't work out, i'm not sure the details though < 1551648388 420251 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :shame < 1551648390 460463 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think being responsive to changes in available space for a widget is important (e.g. window resizing, other widgets gaining more information, and the like), which in turn means that the GUI's API has to be descriptive rather than imperative < 1551648391 970985 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Forgot < 1551648396 266661 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :was gonna ask for the juicier details of the fiasco < 1551648396 924846 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought Bay Area communes tended to be full of rationalists < 1551648398 760792 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not surprised, but also good for her for trying something weird < 1551648402 529368 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :j4cbo: some of them < 1551648421 428572 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I didn't get to go to any of their parties either < 1551648423 880729 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Tis a silly place overall. < 1551648427 561651 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1551648435 355767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the easiest/best way to implement that might require something akin to a physics engine, although I'm not 100% sure on that < 1551648446 363767 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nice thing about not living in the bay area is that you can save a lot of mental effort by writing off everyone in the bay area as a pretentious wanker < 1551648451 522101 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1551648452 937507 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :incl. me < 1551648459 536440 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're probably leaving soon too < 1551648471 935004 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i like you, but one can pick and choose < 1551648472 94943 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I'm out of the Bay and I think I'm still a pretentious wanker sometimes. < 1551648484 653225 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was part of a p nice rave cult in the bay area < 1551648488 162719 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do miss that < 1551648491 145347 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that sounds p. complicated < 1551648493 436937 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :j4cbo: that's cool < 1551648504 814491 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks PH <3 < 1551648506 402900 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like you too < 1551648519 276768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: one thing I've learned about programming is that there's always a tradeoff between complexity of the language/interface/API, and complexity of the code implementing it < 1551648522 206649 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm definitely a pretentious wanker sometimes < 1551648536 485384 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: does styling widgets with CSS mean that you can stop firefox widgets to do all the annoying animations, even if it doesn't respect the Windows control panel's setting that does that for normal windows GUI applications? < 1551648536 942947 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you can do that even if you do live in the bay area, hth < 1551648585 504008 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe (although it is certainly reasonable to disagree with me on this!) that compromising as part of that tradeoff is never a good idea, and ideal languages/libraries/etc. should /always/ aim to place the complexity at one extreme or the other < 1551648598 632411 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think "there's always a tradeoff" is exactly true. Sometimes the code is more complicated and the interface is also more complicated. < 1551648604 708347 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: theoretically possible => sure, but is it theoretically possible to create one that doesn't have to be thrown away ten years later? < 1551648635 24308 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the expectations of what we want from GUIs seems to have changed too much, which is, I think, part of why all the GUI libraries suck < 1551648635 424625 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, sometimes the API design just sucks because it was done with no consideration of what it would mean to implement. < 1551648636 948162 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: in theory, if you had a good enough GUI library, you could just stick with it and just change out the backend as technology improved < 1551648638 944126 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they've all been written in the past < 1551648655 628396 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also a third thing which is the complexity of the overall system, if your goal is to understand the overall system rather than treat libraries as black boxes. < 1551648661 427383 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not convinced that user interfaces are, on average, improving < 1551648668 882592 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, they're obviously getting worse. < 1551648671 906766 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can take a dialog box from Windows 95 and still be perfectly capable of using it nowadays, for example < 1551648679 696510 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the problem is not the user interface part of the GUI < 1551648684 68676 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything in computers is getting worse. < 1551648703 730749 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computers stopped getting much faster, but developers act like they are. < 1551648712 30372 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/in computers// < 1551648720 286709 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some things get better. < 1551648735 85622 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, performance is another big gripe of mine, especially in terms of rendering libraries < 1551648744 501136 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, really. High-end computers are still getting some advances. Not as much as they used to, but some. < 1551648748 723328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :take something like SDL for example; it's widely used, and yet some basic tasks require polling in a loop < 1551648759 170502 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Low-end ones that non-developers actually use, though? Naaah. < 1551648768 719487 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What do you mean? < 1551648795 95618 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well, for one thing, if you look at an SDL program in strace, you'll see repeated 1-millisecond sleeps; I think those are coming from SDL itself < 1551648802 441246 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what I was mostly thinking of is things like thread safety < 1551648828 191497 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, there is no safe way to send information to the SDL main loop from a signal handler, using only primitives provided by SDL < 1551648847 93864 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is annoying because there's an obvious way to do it via the SDL API, it just incurs undefined behaviour < 1551648866 768383 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Classy. < 1551648884 548769 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq are you saying you don't have 32gb of ram to run electron applications? < 1551648886 721700 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't know. you'd have to be prescient. we can't get GUIs that scale well for any screen resolution including very high ones, and any font size, and more than 8 bit color depth, partly because we didn't anticipate that we'll need it, but partly because it's just hard to let the programs easily define how the gui elements should scale depending on what fits in the window < 1551648892 251089 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive never heard something so absurd in my life < 1551648919 945586 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Swing's API, if correctly used, has been able to do that ever since it was created < 1551648926 225682 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :By looking at source code for SDL, it look to me it can work to post events from another thread (I don't know about signals) < 1551648929 425854 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "the SDL main loop"? You mean if your program is blocking on SDL_PollEvent? < 1551648930 212975 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the API is agnostic to things like font size < 1551648935 847537 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: right < 1551648947 444344 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: My daily driver has 4 gigs of RAM. < 1551648951 9886 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm. I don't know much about Swing api, apart from some horribly bad GUI applications written in it < 1551648959 770896 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't seem to be navigable with keyboard at all < 1551648973 260862 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the problem is that the even posting API in SDL calls malloc, which is not async-signal-safe and deadlocks if called re-entrantly < 1551648991 208793 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but presumably that's not the fault of the library < 1551649013 771020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Swing dialog boxes are navigable with tab by default; things get more complex when you're talking about an entire application rather than a single dialog box, though < 1551649026 116368 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy to make those keyboard-navigable but you have to do so explicitly because there's more than one plausible way to do it < 1551649086 375280 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1551649106 866011 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: O, OK. Then perhaps use another thread that waits for a signal and then uses it outside of the signal handler, will that work? < 1551649149 261050 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: adding extra threads seems to be the standard solution to all this sort of thing; I think it could work via event posting, assuming that it is at least thread-safe < 1551649192 797614 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, it wasn't in SDL2 but is in SDL3. < 1551649199 17030 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an SDL3? < 1551649201 564784 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think typically your program has a way to send messages to other threads that don't use the SDL mechanism? < 1551649207 503226 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm drunk < 1551649214 887388 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/2/1/ s/3/2/ < 1551649225 125468 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Posting events does seem to be thread-safe as far as I can tell (in SDL1, at least), but other functions (including events) might not be < 1551649250 649108 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure about the 1ms sleeps, what triggers them? < 1551649257 701257 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although maybe not in the earliest version of SDL1; I looked at the code for the version I have) < 1551649266 222167 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: so the problem is, you'd want a library like SDL to handle abstraction over OSes for you, and it does in fact have a set of threading primitives for that purpose; however, none of them allow one thread to block on a message sent by another thread (it has no semaphores nor any way to create them) < 1551649307 339044 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only synchronization primitive it had, last time I checked, was mutexes (possible exception: I checked several rendering libraries for this and it's possible that I'm confusing SDL with somethinh else here) < 1551649313 148975 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.200.33 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1551649326 964022 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Libraries that handle abstraction over OSes are often problematic. < 1551649363 52749 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have a tendency to be busted. < 1551649367 857682 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :logically, they shouldn't be; the set of common functionality between OSes tends to be very large < 1551649373 267446 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree that they often fail in practice, though < 1551649407 433777 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thin it's more like that the abstraction libraries are lagging behind the OSes < 1551649426 950514 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because each functionality first appears in one OS, and then an abstraction library pops up that does some crazy workaround on another OS to emulate it < 1551649442 787964 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then nobody fixes the abstractino library later when that other OS gains a native way to do the same thing < 1551649450 451579 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly because of compatibility issue < 1551649483 718730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you could fix that by, say, only abstracting over features which were commonly available in OSes in 2010 < 1551649492 804609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like most programs will need most features introduced since then < 1551649511 37297 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, that sort of thing exists < 1551649519 869607 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the python and rust standard libraries try to do that < 1551649525 266475 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, even the C standard library started like that < 1551649531 430952 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sort of < 1551649558 611151 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, the C standard library was more a formal definition of the random pieces of Unix that other C implementations happened to implement. < 1551649574 886848 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1551649602 487340 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the abstraction libraries try to be overly generic, and some of them are just very poorly designed. < 1551649612 614602 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are any of them well-designed? < 1551649615 841432 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also happened to include a relatively sane (though not entirely complete) date function API, but somehow everyone hates that and tries to invent worse datetime libraries < 1551649620 314954 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Not really. < 1551649663 906840 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was writing some Xlib code the other day. < 1551649672 132773 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kind of scow but not as bad as I thought. < 1551649698 933014 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite a few of them only even abstract over the portions of OS differences that are relatively easy to handle. < 1551649751 183985 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yeaaaah, as far as things like FS APIs go there's only two choices: "basically or literally Unix" and "Windows") < 1551649767 999516 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, for example, the threading libraries don't seem to have abstractions yet for setting CPU affinity of threads, despite that all OSes have that, because of what ais523 says: you don't need that until you want to optimize your program on a NUMA machine, and home computers don't have a NUMA cpu yet < 1551649768 39021 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm still messing about with this stats problem < 1551649789 806965 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this will change just like how back fifteen years ago home computers didn't have SMP cpus < 1551649793 125517 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode 😕 < 1551649794 272325 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+1F615 CONFUSED FACE \ UTF-8: f0 9f 98 95 UTF-16BE: d83dde15 Decimal: 😕 \ 😕 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) < 1551649904 516055 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: most programs won't /know/ what the best CPU affinity is anyway, so why not let the OS decide? that's its job < 1551649916 954948 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: although I don't know for certain, I have some suspicion that Windows is bad at this job) < 1551649918 260865 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure, so the programs aren't required to call that function < 1551649920 531992 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a default < 1551649926 689272 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other possibilities that sometimes you can use VM rather than native code, although that depends on the program. < 1551649941 84610 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the default is to inherit the cpu affinity of the calling process through forks and thread creation < 1551649949 827616 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes I see a Windows program using 25% of four CPUs, manually pegging it to a single CPU tends to help in that case < 1551649957 769480 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*25% each < 1551649978 801416 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is that on non-NUMA machines? < 1551649982 107623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes < 1551650055 518503 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's a double negative, they should just be called UMA machines < 1551650110 136994 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1551650271 594024 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xlib is not that bad, and I have written some X programs using Xlib, including to display a picture, to make a screenshot, and to warp the mouse cursor (this last one was written for someone who needed to work around a bug in Chromium; I wrote it to see if it would help, and he said it does help) < 1551650314 522339 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :home computers having powerful GPUs is also a similar change I guess < 1551650328 25689 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and phones even < 1551650384 362883 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... but I don't care about those < 1551651209 778872 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, apparently they moved the Red Bull Air Race from Budapest to the south coast of the Balaton. that might actually be a good idea from my point of view. < 1551651456 835632 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1551652272 296095 :LKoen_!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0081cb76a76da0c1a3.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1551655513 297634 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1551655898 300664 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dnmfjwtlcfpeszlc JOIN :#esoteric > 1551657257 704570 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60226&oldid=60225 5* 03Cortex 5* (+445) 10 < 1551657332 131933 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1551657408 971619 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric > 1551658367 864936 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Cortex14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60227&oldid=60224 5* 03Cortex 5* (+360) 10 > 1551658741 84131 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Befunge14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60228&oldid=60220 5* 03Oerjan 5* (-1) 10/* Language overview */ sp < 1551658788 411478 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mediawiki's default diff is so annoying for checking anything other than small localized changes (and even then beware of newlines) < 1551658820 317302 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i guess i trust b_jonas not be doing vandalism when moving sections :) < 1551658849 559292 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i cannot see whether he edited anything at the same time, though. < 1551658907 785035 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION always uses WikEdDiff [sp?] on wikipedia, unless the changes are so big it starts gobbling cpu < 1551658950 758961 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551659007 324578 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1551659096 202648 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life > 1551659156 738704 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Works in progress14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60229&oldid=60221 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+95) 10Make a policy for putting the foot down so I can start deleting things that don't belong < 1551659311 254615 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that doesn't quite work. < 1551659433 305845 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you shouldn't trust me. and I did edit something: I turned the Etymology thing to a deeper level header < 1551659437 212352 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? itymology < 1551659438 339152 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Itymology is the science of understanding the true meaning of a statement. > 1551659465 939627 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Works in progress14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60230&oldid=60229 5* 03Oerjan 5* (-95) 10Undo revision 60229 by [[Special:Contributions/Oerjan|Oerjan]] ([[User talk:Oerjan|talk]]) (OK this doesn't work, the already existing entries have too much ambiguity) < 1551659497 480840 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: i think i noticed that. i meant editing things inside what you moved. < 1551659500 673628 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I probably don't vandalize it, but I might still make bad changes < 1551659533 862403 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, you made a spelling error :P < 1551659553 264045 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :several, on IRC today < 1551659675 647987 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that Works in progress page should probably have been a category from the start. < 1551659782 926880 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like some entries are just collaborations between a couple people < 1551659799 60881 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which doesn't imply everyone else is invite to change the specs < 1551659806 752572 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, but you all have been scaring people from creating categories. < 1551659822 872285 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that occured to me too < 1551659990 138203 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551660147 854960 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :itymology is such a good word < 1551660159 888423 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, a wiki may be a good tool to collaborate on creating a specification < 1551660169 189612 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding a blurb for befunge when nominating it was a good idea, although i'm not sure if we should require it from nominators < 1551660183 639811 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it'll probably speed up things) < 1551660198 950383 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the hard part is probably still getting the article to a betters tate < 1551660217 774664 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we have to start writing the blurb tool, so I thought I'd start < 1551660258 447373 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the instructions on the nomination page seem a bit obsolete, and not reflecting the current reality of how the featured language box works now < 1551660339 39312 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the current reality is that it didn't work for 5 years < 1551660348 507106 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1551660662 262416 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1551661333 504356 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Windows 5* 10New user account < 1551662443 751128 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vspvzkrgabrhkeyk QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1551662747 678689 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :good username < 1551663035 701419 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551663377 939419 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i think we need some kind of policy that admin involvement in a featured language doesn't count if all active admins agree to it. otherwise we'll never get Underload featured :P < 1551663408 799498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :persuade fizzie to do it :-P < 1551663418 954585 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i nominate underload, hth < 1551663424 341704 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :he implemented it in fungot :P < 1551663424 429023 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but fnord is written in < 1551663445 895724 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, everyone has implemented bf < 1551663449 7246 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was still featured < 1551663453 972857 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I don't think that counts as "involvement". < 1551663458 53104 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Are you feeling involved? < 1551663458 126272 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ( iirc) is a good < 1551663469 77643 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo fungot for wiki admin < 1551663469 238632 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the l is somewhat like on the piano :) i spend most of your life < 1551663492 213403 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I've never seen an l key on the piano. < 1551663492 268325 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i can see < 1551663573 313004 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551663585 152976 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551663590 516501 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is not for nomination, non-admins can nominate. but ais523 seemed loathe to _select_ his own languages even when others nominated them. < 1551663647 877061 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also nominations must be on the wiki hth) < 1551663658 530872 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :tdnh < 1551663676 584603 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: there has to be somewhere where we can draft the front page text _before_ nominating a language to the feature box < 1551663685 248883 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, I wouldn't object to admins featuring pre-reset nominations, the reset was just because 7 years is an awfully long time to be locked out of making a second nomination < 1551663698 108284 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it used to be that people just nominated the language and the featuring admin wrote the front page text < 1551663702 300576 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is part of the reason that it hardly ever got done < 1551663738 607264 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that reminds me. I wanted to ask something about intercal < 1551663744 826154 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i've thought about this before < 1551663774 796061 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a limited number of nominations? < 1551663789 328196 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: only one per person until it resets < 1551663802 287859 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i'm pretty sure A had sneaked in under two accounts :P < 1551663812 776148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should probably let peopel change their nomination as often as they were < 1551663814 835601 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you swap your nomination for a different one? < 1551663828 531942 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I deleted the second nomination, after checkusering to verify that it was two accounts of the same user < 1551663851 208238 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's one of the few things you can legally checkuser for on Wikipedia: pretending to be two people on a poll or vote) < 1551663883 627857 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*as often as they like < 1551663886 379625 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this isn't Wikipedia. < 1551663889 551425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no, but I disagree with that rule < 1551663904 394637 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Iamcalledbob was also him, i suspect < 1551663918 429076 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, but there's a very long-standing (as in, from the moment the wiki was created) rule of "if we don't come up with a rule ourselves, we use Wikipedia's by default until a new agreement is established" < 1551663945 155780 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you know how there's this redundant representation, where you represent an n-bit integer as a difference of two n-bit integers, with the advantage that you can do addition or subtraction on such a representation in such a way that carry has to be propagated only two levels, or only one level for adding a constant < 1551663951 88135 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I nominate ais523 for unilateral dictator of the wiki. < 1551663964 850288 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and it can also be done in a not too complicated way using ordinary bitwise operations and shifts < 1551663992 302016 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what I'd like to ask is, has that ever been used to represent 16-bit integer computations efficiently in Intercal? < 1551664005 448949 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I don't believe so < 1551664018 55931 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1551664018 344870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be possible to implement, I just don't think it's been done < 1551664036 861583 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the vast majority of INTERCAL programs aim for space-efficiency rather than time-efficiency < 1551664059 808224 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's too inefficient though < 1551664065 665488 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to other things you can do in intercal that is < 1551664073 380051 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1551664081 47309 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not heard of such a representation before now, I think < 1551664084 674449 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aiming for space-efficiency is a habit from 1972, I think, when computers had less memory < 1551664099 758842 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Isn't it more important nowadays than before? < 1551664115 806821 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now that memory bandwidth is the bottleneck for most computation. < 1551664128 28216 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, space-efficiency? it is in the sense that cache misses tend to bottleneck things more than CPU execution units, yes < 1551664148 220284 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in that case you also have to take the space iin the instruction cache into account < 1551664159 220289 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course. < 1551664163 316322 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's a three-way tradeoff between memory usage, instruction length and instruction speed < 1551664196 917852 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think pipeline flushes have a cost that's comparable to that of an L1 cache miss, so you can't neglect instruction speed entirely < 1551664287 256882 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : shachaf: no, but I disagree with that rule <-- i suggest allowing changes after a suitable time period (a year maybe?), seems better than a complete reset < 1551664310 990691 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any reason not to allow changes to be made arbitrary often? < 1551664332 521579 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, we could undo the reset if we're allowing people to change anyway < 1551664336 59891 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the difference between allowing changing your nomination and allowing any number of nominations? < 1551664408 984449 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :admins have a much shorter list to look through when they have to decided on a language < 1551664459 445326 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I nominate multiple languages with different weights? < 1551664470 924364 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can sample my nomination when you want to look through the list. < 1551664496 837090 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really our whole featured languages process is fairly badly thought out :-D < 1551664646 514997 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: http://mmix.cs.hm.edu/doc/mmix-doc.pdf paragraph 40, on page 32 < 1551664695 282357 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the way I phrased is, the instructions on https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Featured_languages/Candidates are badly thought out. I'm not srue that's the actual process you follow though. < 1551664795 928916 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the process we follow, maybe it shouldn't be though < 1551664937 642896 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about this process: < 1551664951 528595 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 decides whatever he wants < 1551664970 378490 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'd recommend that *fizzie* decides whatever he wants < 1551664987 840118 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's ais523, then we'll never be able to feature his languages < 1551664998 455598 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :although if fizzie decides them, then we won't be able to feature befunge < 1551664999 135812 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1551665021 951853 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like a process along the lines of "we try to decide on a schedule for language featuring in advance" < 1551665044 736850 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. someone suggested featuring BF Joust, and I realised October would be a good month for it; likewise, there was some suggestion of featuring a joke language for April < 1551665068 35030 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why October in particular? < 1551665099 568220 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the largest uptick for online gaming communities < 1551665111 90726 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're running one of those, you normally get a spike in new members in October < 1551665120 72609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is probably related to the fact that the academic year starts in September < 1551665120 464723 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh... I didn't know that. I thought that was the Christmas break < 1551665165 862612 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Christmas break is often pretty much dead, to the extent that Agora and BlogNomic have both, at some point in the past, had rules that shut them down entirely over Christmas < 1551665197 246998 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :agora still has a rule that nullifies deadline penalties then < 1551665221 118779 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1551665406 111617 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Is the cures of the featured language that people make erivatives of it? <-- did anyone make a funciton derivative recently? :P < 1551665657 864638 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: O, yes, there is the carry save addition < 1551665800 111450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: one language I'm working on has a few similarities to Funciton, but it's not really a derivative < 1551665852 47125 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also generalizes to when you already have, say, 32-bit addition primitives, but want to do carries from one word to another only up to one step, I think you can do that with the words storing like one or two extra bits < 1551666023 85472 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall thinking of something like this when verifying that adding an arbitrary list of numbers (or counting the number of set bits in input) can be done with a circuit of logarithmic depth < 1551666031 832287 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for funciton, what I've been thinking of independently of that language is a notation where (local) variables are represented by columns in the code, a function call (or call to a primitive) is written with a comma in the right column to put an output in a variable and < 1551666076 308413 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :an apostrophe for an input argument or backtick for an earlier input argument (so you can easily swap arguments), or a semicolon or comma for both input and output, < 1551666101 881659 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: mechanical analog computers are normally programmed vaguely like that, the computer itself has a matrix of axles, columns represent variables, rows represent execution units, and you connect them at the intersections to write the program < 1551666107 328036 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can have multiple calls in the same line as long as they're more or less separated horizontally. < 1551666120 2222 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this way the code sort of represents a circuit, with information flowing from top to bottom. < 1551666212 196546 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can also put functions next to each other, where to define a function, you use a header pseudo-instruction that defines the name and parameters and an extra formal marker, plus a function end line that takes the output values (returns) and the formal marker in the same column to know which function header it matches < 1551666220 447924 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the set bit counting part being a way to prove the complexity class inclusion TC_0 \subset NC_1) < 1551666230 817244 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, though this would be a bit higher level < 1551666290 309885 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, if you use short names for the most frequent functions, then the output variable could default to the first column of the function name. < 1551666308 110051 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know this is really vague, it doesn't come to a full specification, not even close, and I haven't figured out any of the details. < 1551666404 840446 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, if you only use higher level stuff, then this lends naturally to programming with either a punch card, or those things used for player pianos with little pins in places on a grid < 1551666418 703663 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :to lift levers that connect parts of the mechanism < 1551666449 562286 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think more of the higher level version < 1551666525 708527 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I should make at least a simple prototype language, to serve as an example for something that has explicit variables (not just, say, a data stack or the unlambda/underload no-variable thing), but no variable names < 1551666592 712634 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pity the clc intercal webpage is still down by the way < 1551666896 933569 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I refuckulated my radio statistics code so it's less heinous < 1551666910 508230 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAAAAADIO < 1551666916 806306 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :📻 < 1551666916 871295 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: imo you should get a ham license < 1551666924 573627 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we can chat using our radios < 1551666947 891960 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure there are VHF/UHF repeaters that cover Berkeley and the Sunset < 1551666951 344041 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we can already chat < 1551666966 940991 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But IRC isn't the maximally nerd way to do so. < 1551666974 487084 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's true < 1551666977 639627 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hams are the O.G. nerds < 1551666986 941987 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really wanted to get a http://ronja.twibright.com/ back when I and a friend lived at the university campus with line-of-sight between the apartments. < 1551666989 575470 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ham radio is at the same time profoundly un-cool and extremely punk rock < 1551666992 760140 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: imo let's play internet relay cat < 1551666994 73068 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love it < 1551666994 811696 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately that didn't last long enough. < 1551666996 705032 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you get a cat < 1551667007 655229 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then send me pictures of the cat through the internet < 1551667011 828871 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then i visit you + the cat < 1551667016 41753 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is that one of those line-of-sight laser network links? < 1551667038 694019 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: IIRC, it's not actually laser, but the same sort of thing. < 1551667041 80138 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, neat. < 1551667042 826368 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1551667057 900910 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool stuff < 1551667071 984760 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have the ability to post ARRL radiogram messages? < 1551667090 422660 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Tetrapolis model has a visible wavelength, so I think in theory on foggy nights you should've been able to see the beam. (Well, and/or it would've stopped working.) < 1551667110 573077 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't really know anything about that, but probably? I have a General class license so I can do most things on most parts of the bands < 1551667122 961084 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know morse code < 1551667160 44706 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: our friendly local WISP uses laser links, in addition to milimeter wave and traditional microwave links < 1551667168 16411 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no, but i'm learning a bit < 1551667183 785354 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm using the method where you learn at full speed, adding one character at a time < 1551667191 44147 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than learning the whole alphabet slowly and trying to speed up < 1551667201 645663 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :beep boop < 1551667208 148714 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former method (Koch method) is said to be better < 1551667239 216637 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :smiling cat face with cat face shaped eyes < 1551667261 351774 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because at any decent speed, you don't have time to decompose into individual dots and dashes < 1551667284 178309 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to recognize each letter (and eventually words and codes) as a single thing < 1551667288 245518 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there's line of sight, can one of you wave semaphore flags and the other watch with a telescope? < 1551667298 803365 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like reading by sounding out words, vs reading fluently < 1551667307 327076 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes, and it would be amusing to do TCP/IP over such a transport < 1551667309 282983 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zounds < 1551667319 928686 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: do deaf people read faster than hearing people < 1551667333 362684 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're not married to the idea of traditional semaphores, you could use 8 flags to represent one octet at a time < 1551667340 753984 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: idk < 1551667361 167355 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: there's some esoteric representation with showing one hexit at a time with two flags < 1551667384 761441 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: and I think there's been a traditional semaphore that showed six trits, but I think the trit thing is a bad idea < 1551667435 701018 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :back to the statistics project: my current approach is as follows < 1551667474 601769 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) calculate the average power across the whole frequency range at each timestep, and subtract it from each individual measurement. this subtracts out the slow variation in broad-spectrum noise < 1551667480 379301 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: what exposure time and frame rate do you use when measuring the signal strength? < 1551667515 466980 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) calculate the average power (after the adjustment in (1)) on each frequency < 1551667532 686949 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :3) calculate the % of time spent more than 1.5 dBm above the average < 1551667538 795219 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a crude way to look for a bimodal distribution < 1551667554 701706 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I already answered that, but it averages over 4 seconds < 1551667570 958383 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I must have missed it in the logs < 1551667606 21724 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and during that time it quickly scans over the whole range < 1551667646 629785 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 4 seconds is the recip framerate, right? < 1551667650 753198 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what's the exposure time? < 1551667657 487465 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what you mean < 1551667662 343275 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it averages power over 4 seconds < 1551667665 184140 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that not an exposure? < 1551667669 754232 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the exposure then < 1551667679 79409 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the time between exposures starting is 4 seconds < 1551667683 884488 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought "scans over the whole range" meant it doesn't scan all ranges at the same time < 1551667684 907561 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the frame rate is 0.25 Hz < 1551667696 242409 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1551667708 122980 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how quickly it hops frequencies, if that's what you're asking < 1551667718 791986 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it digitizes 2.048 MHz of spectrum at once, and the band is 4 MHz (144 - 148 MHz) wide, and there is some overscan for Reasons < 1551667725 560098 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it does it in 3 chunks < 1551667737 154401 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tool is rtl_power if you want to look into it more < 1551667752 359185 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1551667797 335813 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I think the above analysis may be about as good as I can do in a time invariant way (i.e. same result if you permute the frames arbitrarily) < 1551667803 500691 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is a silly restriction so I think I can do much better < 1551667813 494691 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so did your computation seem to work? have you found stations that you could listen to and figure out something about? < 1551667830 592911 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it finds stations that are already clear in the waterfall graph < 1551667843 239695 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's still useful, since it's automated < 1551667846 624497 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1551667848 890867 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the challenge < 1551667861 253969 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :to automate it, and gather statistics over many days or weeks < 1551667874 993317 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example if a certain frequency is active at the same time on the same day of the week, every week, it's probably a scheduled "net" < 1551667878 816374 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I may not already know about < 1551667887 813722 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can already scan the whole spectrum with one of my other radios, but it doesn't log anything < 1551667912 713042 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a typical FM scanner has a much better way of identifying frequencies in use < 1551667919 891288 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :noise squelch < 1551667945 424212 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than just looking at the RF power, it demodulates the signal into audio and then looks at the high frequency (super-audible) components < 1551667966 237480 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if those components have a lot of energy, it indicates that you're picking up static < 1551667991 739173 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in terms of the original signal, it is looking for a strong carrier whose frequency is not varying too quickly < 1551668003 238709 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1551668010 168488 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but wouldn't that be slower in scanning the spectrum? < 1551668025 46550 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :could it miss broadcasts that are active only for shorter times, to transmit short messages? < 1551668068 742261 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gtg soon, but good luck, find useful channels < 1551668075 662833 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : presumably at some point the hard disk ends up full [...] <-- as i recall from last time i ran a memory-slurping haskell program without thinking, my windows has some swap size limit < 1551668085 516112 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes, it's slower < 1551668109 382439 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, you could maybe do it quickly with an SDR < 1551668116 933100 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can do a lot of FM demodulation in parallel < 1551668125 557786 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway that's much more towards the hard signal processing side of things < 1551668131 615482 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and right now I'm looking for a rough statistical approach < 1551668162 186505 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, GPS magic and sparse fourier transformas < 1551668172 874429 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy stuff < 1551668320 186660 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and electronics magic, like you explained < 1551668344 318092 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1551668396 836229 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-173.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1551668752 926760 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do know how to format a ARRL radiogram message. < 1551669124 606614 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: cool < 1551669128 590254 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you / have you been a licensed ham? > 1551669218 348319 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60231&oldid=60226 5* 03Cortex 5* (+1561) 10 < 1551669389 503114 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? phantom_hoover < 1551669390 699280 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom Michael Hoover is a true Scotsman, hatheist, and completely out of the loop. < 1551669422 921014 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but I do know how to format the message. A few fields must be filled in by the radio operator, although I can fill in everything else, if someone else can send it. (I have no need to write a ARRL radiogram message now, but I can write one if needed) > 1551669620 944245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60232&oldid=60231 5* 03Cortex 5* (+104) 10 > 1551669690 792619 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60233&oldid=60160 5* 03Cortex 5* (+14) 10 < 1551670481 209169 :bobby!~Bob@76.202.115.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1551670720 779605 :bobby!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:1092:2725:4f3c:7b98 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551671512 474326 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1551671712 742097 :bobby!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:1092:2725:4f3c:7b98 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551672005 708575 :bobby!~Bob@76.202.115.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551672042 83219 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551672078 258193 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.4 < 1551672098 659060 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1551672140 359205 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I haven't learned morse code yet, but I'm working on it < 1551672143 919142 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like a good thing to know < 1551672161 867126 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can communicate with very weak radio signals, and it's also applicable to many things besides radio < 1551673020 330738 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dnmfjwtlcfpeszlc QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1551674829 783470 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :A chess variant called "Hexabeast" has English rules, Chinese pieces, and Latin notation. (The reason for the Latin notation is that the name of each piece starts with a different letter if they are written in Latin, but this is not the case in English, and of course the Chinese names are not ASCII.) < 1551675179 123582 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551675351 493390 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I missed the Works in Progress discussion earlier, but there is already a https://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Works-in-Progress category that I thought (perhaps mistakenly) was official. < 1551675400 833873 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to add a 'see also' on the other page, but maybe that won't help clear the confusion < 1551675489 492666 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if it is official < 1551675605 477203 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's official < 1551675616 459528 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1551675729 803400 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I look at the other langs on that list it does not look official, a couple of users had added multiple languages to it and it has swept in a few others along the way < 1551676032 69094 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's used in a template here: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Template:WIP just figured out why I used it on one of my languages < 1551676473 661526 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zotdvtofwqdxcbbi JOIN :#esoteric < 1551678077 80149 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1551679689 396402 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1551680197 228029 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA3_YKCW2LU < 1551683528 975280 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the situation in girl genius seems to be turning tense < 1551683542 290612 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at least the guy uses pronouns properly < 1551683731 933979 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w < 1551683734 271428 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:boorjan//boorjan is oerjan's uneducated twin. \ adjective//Adjectives are words frequently found attached to chickens. \ cgi//CGI stands for uh... C, goblin, interface? \ remavas//Remavas is a revolution in human biology. He's cofriends with oerjan. He's apparently from Frankfurt, Germany, but he's actually from Mars. His typing skills are so incredibly bad, some say he writes in a different orthography designed for a different language. \ res < 1551683737 734221 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1551683738 495575 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:taurant//A restaurant is a type of transactional resource-distributing system powered by lazy evaluation. < 1551683743 445522 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cwlprits boorjan < 1551683745 455934 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachäf < 1551683752 311585 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you look at that. how unexpected. < 1551683808 208236 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? funpuns < 1551683809 236637 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :funpuns fceƀ fbz fryyrev naq pbfcynlf Arcrgn Yrvwba ba jrrxraqf. Ur ungrf oryy crccref jvgu n cnffvba. Gur havg bs sha chaarel vf anzrq nsgre uvz. < 1551683829 615122 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` \? funpuns | rot3 < 1551683830 878515 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/`: line 5: rot3: command not found < 1551683831 198974 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` \? funpuns | rot13 < 1551683832 609882 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. The unit of fun punnery is named after him. < 1551683847 489547 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? shachaf < 1551683848 635897 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Queen Shachaf of the Dawn sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. He doesn't know when to stop asking questions. < 1551683902 424134 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? kmc < 1551683903 559764 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc did not run the International Devious Code Contest of 2013. < 1551683910 724583 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? zzo38 < 1551683911 739804 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 is not actually the next version of fungot, much as it may seem. < 1551683956 920947 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo -n $(cat wisdom/shachaf) The unit of fun punnery is named after him. | rot13 > wisdom/funpuns < 1551683958 860680 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1551683967 666687 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... hmm should have used tee < 1551683971 577178 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` cat wisdom/funpuns < 1551683972 168594 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dhrra Funpuns bs gur Qnja fceƀ fbz fryyrev naq pbfcynlf Arcrgn Yrvwba ba jrrxraqf. Ur ungrf oryy crccref jvgu n cnffvba. Ur qbrfa'g xabj jura gb fgbc nfxvat dhrfgvbaf. Gur havg bs sha chaarel vf anzrq nsgre uvz. < 1551684286 834747 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, can you send two files to diff on stdin? < 1551684295 345217 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do it interactively, with diff - /dev/stdin and ^D < 1551684312 745996 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But can you do (foo; eof; bar) somehow? < 1551684378 375700 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` cat wisdom/funpuns | rot13 | cmp wisdom/shachaf - < 1551684379 358989 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/shachaf - differ: byte 169, line 1 < 1551684386 683371 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, no. But you can use <(...) to good effect. < 1551684455 372063 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it really a thing you can only do interactively? < 1551684466 275303 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No way to make a read of size 0 happen? < 1551684527 13491 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vishelmnewrdzqzn JOIN :#esoteric < 1551684628 652298 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1551684652 83267 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :<(...) is too good < 1551684809 344243 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are addicted to calling things too good < 1551684811 762658 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :like me < 1551684976 836723 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tg is tg < 1551685000 979094 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? tg < 1551685002 211066 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :TG is short for Turing-Gödel, the highest possible level of difficulty for a multiplayer game. At this level, it's undecidable whether you can manage to halt before losing or not. < 1551685020 299250 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about Superturing-Gödel < 1551685025 529259 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :is superturing a superhero < 1551685040 26676 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf... < 1551685046 418915 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` diff -u0 <(< wisdom/shachaf fmt -1) <(< wisdom/funpuns rot13 | fmt -1) < 1551685047 243468 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​--- /dev/fd/63 2019-03-04 07:37:26.716895926 +0000 \ +++ /dev/fd/62 2019-03-04 07:37:26.636894902 +0000 \ @@ -29,0 +30,9 @@ \ +The \ +unit \ +of \ +fun \ +punnery \ +is \ +named \ +after \ +him. < 1551685049 778196 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` diff -u0 <(< wisdom/shachaf fmt -1) <(< wisdom/funpuns rot13 | fmt -1) | cat < 1551685050 671030 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1551685052 918963 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :?! < 1551685053 385410 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: v @ ? . < 1551685122 167175 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does piping the result of diff to another command cause the output to become empty? < 1551685172 198015 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`which diff < 1551685172 815077 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/usr/bin/diff < 1551685244 901158 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run diff -u0 <(< wisdom/shachaf fmt -1) <(< wisdom/funpuns rot13 | fmt -1) < 1551685245 818840 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​--- /dev/fd/63 2019-03-04 07:40:45.256264591 +0000 \ +++ /dev/fd/62 2019-03-04 07:40:45.266264719 +0000 \ @@ -29,0 +30,9 @@ \ +The \ +unit \ +of \ +fun \ +punnery \ +is \ +named \ +after \ +him. < 1551685250 508895 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run diff -u0 <(< wisdom/shachaf fmt -1) <(< wisdom/funpuns rot13 | fmt -1) | cat < 1551685251 438656 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1551685513 881782 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` diff -u0 <(< wisdom/shachaf fmt -1) <(< wisdom/funpuns rot13 | fmt -1) | cat -v < 1551685514 882789 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​--- /dev/fd/63 2019-03-04 07:45:14.229664713 +0000 \ +++ /dev/fd/62 2019-03-04 07:45:14.229664713 +0000 \ @@ -29,0 +30,9 @@ \ +The \ +unit \ +of \ +fun \ +punnery \ +is \ +named \ +after \ +him. < 1551685553 774071 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`which cat < 1551685554 578429 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/bin/cat < 1551685587 707385 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Why did that work? < 1551685592 626824 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` diff -u0 <(< wisdom/shachaf fmt -1) <(< wisdom/funpuns rot13 | fmt -1) | cat -v < 1551685593 706028 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1551685618 652660 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` diff -u0 <(< wisdom/shachaf fmt -1) <(< wisdom/funpuns rot13 | fmt -1) | cat; echo $? < 1551685619 661223 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1551685628 144172 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` diff -u0 <(< wisdom/shachaf fmt -1) <(< wisdom/funpuns rot13 | fmt -1) | cat -A < 1551685629 93628 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1551685642 615442 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` diff -u0 <(< wisdom/shachaf fmt -1) <(< wisdom/funpuns rot13 | fmt -1) | cat; echo hi >&2 < 1551685643 617909 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1551685654 105853 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :tdnh < 1551685678 632820 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` diff -u0 <(< wisdom/shachaf fmt -1) <(< wisdom/funpuns rot13 | fmt -1) | hexdump < 1551685679 554224 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1551685719 415491 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing you do will do anything hth < 1551685727 628311 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's nondeterministic too. terminating the thing for some reason. < 1551685753 811731 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` diff -u0 <(< wisdom/shachaf fmt -1) <(< wisdom/funpuns rot13 | fmt -1) | cat -v < 1551685754 823830 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1551685758 237045 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i see < 1551685780 440474 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` diff -u0 <(< wisdom/shachaf fmt -1) <(< wisdom/funpuns rot13 | fmt -1) 1551686178 487798 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60234&oldid=60232 5* 03Cortex 5* (+37) 10 < 1551686329 138494 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.200.33 JOIN :#esoteric > 1551686870 377209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60235&oldid=60234 5* 03Cortex 5* (+160) 10 < 1551689421 30736 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1551691270 844218 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something I was thinking over the weekend: < 1551691320 503274 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The category of monoids and monoid homomorphisms, and the category of abelian groups and group homomorphisms, both have an internal hom functor < 1551691323 668366 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Grp doesn't < 1551691379 420014 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How come? < 1551691479 324941 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monoid homormorphisms form a monoid pointwise, with (f<>g)(a) = f(a)<>g(a) < 1551691548 704812 :orbitaldecay!~Bob@c-68-33-94-10.hsd1.wv.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551691629 944407 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we extend this to groups, and take f^-1(a) = f(a)^-1, we get f(a<>b)^-1 = f^-1(a<>b) = f^-1(a)<>f^-1(b) (by the fact it's a homomorphism) = f(a)^-1<>f(b)^-1, but this is only true in general when the codomain is abelian < 1551691749 37821 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, this isn't actually a proof of my original statement, just that what to me is the obvious formulation fails for Grp < 1551692554 408441 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551693627 738189 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1551693654 468595 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551694215 330707 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1551694464 535970 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1551695216 179774 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1551695322 706934 :mich181189!sid268336@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ykwofmoenlcsnpmi QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1551695335 84285 :mich181189!sid268336@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-monnnqnvvfiaqltz JOIN :#esoteric < 1551697335 279770 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: sorry for my connection < 1551697344 492797 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551697370 758593 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1551697377 506929 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Client Quit < 1551698669 399077 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1551702089 163820 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551702277 235612 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1551702277 648198 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1551703091 244373 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vishelmnewrdzqzn QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1551704469 192354 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Multiply14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60236 5* 03A 5* (+354) 10Created page with "=Syntax=
 This programming language only implements multiplication. It uses only 3 values: x as -3, y as -2, and z as -1. Whitespace means multiplication. 
=Example..." > 1551704562 717018 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60237&oldid=60080 5* 03A 5* (+71) 10/* General languages */ > 1551704713 111317 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Multiply14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60238&oldid=60236 5* 03A 5* (+30) 10/* Examples */ > 1551704730 848580 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Multiply14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60239&oldid=60238 5* 03A 5* (+30) 10/* Examples */ > 1551704771 958335 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Multiply14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60240&oldid=60239 5* 03A 5* (+33) 10/* Examples */ > 1551704789 70578 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Multiply14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60241&oldid=60240 5* 03A 5* (-1) 10/* Examples */ > 1551704955 234816 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Multiply14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60242&oldid=60241 5* 03A 5* (+202) 10 > 1551705170 53212 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Multiply14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60243&oldid=60242 5* 03A 5* (+373) 10/* Implementation */ < 1551705180 696078 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds > 1551705183 559554 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Multiply14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60244&oldid=60243 5* 03A 5* (+13) 10/* Implementation */ > 1551705204 686379 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Multiply14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60245&oldid=60244 5* 03A 5* (+13) 10 > 1551705314 585795 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Multiply14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60246&oldid=60245 5* 03A 5* (+63) 10 > 1551706521 737548 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SPADE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60247&oldid=59400 5* 03A 5* (+40) 10 < 1551706620 242544 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1551711938 154076 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551715646 392481 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1551715668 267439 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1551716784 380684 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org QUIT :Quit: I seem to have stopped. < 1551716795 56205 :atriq!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551716860 65946 :atriq!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 NICK :Taneb > 1551716952 721598 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Erwijet 5* 10New user account > 1551717285 151426 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60248&oldid=60217 5* 03Erwijet 5* (+227) 10Introduced myself > 1551717346 645213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60249&oldid=60248 5* 03Erwijet 5* (+0) 10Fixed a spelling issue on my name < 1551717927 285185 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1551718779 535531 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: You'd probably know -- what's there to see and do in Hexham? < 1551718817 941724 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the Abbey's worth a visit, the Old Gaol is a history museum, there's some little art galleries dotted about, a theatre, a cinema < 1551718859 305458 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you ask? < 1551718899 256636 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might stop by sometime in the summer. It's on the way, and it's got all that #esoteric glamour. < 1551718945 121419 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` grwp -il hexham < 1551718946 327611 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :english channel \ fentimans \ ham \ helsinki \ hexchat \ hexham \ wegian < 1551718979 437869 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a bus that goes to a bunch of old Roman sites as well < 1551718995 605858 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the AD122) < 1551719146 213005 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1551719188 129029 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1551719314 816271 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1551719426 61006 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00815acc373546797f.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1551719667 390733 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1551719810 595512 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60250&oldid=59396 5* 03Erwijet 5* (+139) 10Added an interpreter > 1551720064 187896 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60251&oldid=60250 5* 03Erwijet 5* (-7) 10Fixed formatting < 1551720110 386934 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551720178 377074 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: The old Roman sites are kind of the thing Hexham is on the way to, though I think we might rent a car. < 1551720396 270999 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1551720529 117164 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551722707 489624 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1551723417 830379 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1551724768 59995 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1551725180 369495 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Game of XYZABCDE Part II is not much yet (I have to think of what rooms to add, and that part is difficult to think of, I think), but nevertheless is possible to download to see so far: http://zzo38computer.org/xyzabcde/2.zip < 1551725198 538953 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Type VERBS for a list of verbs (there are a few hidden verbs which are not listed here). < 1551725434 204622 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551726073 642667 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can also make suggestions/questions/complaints if you have any, I suppose.) < 1551726617 650883 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1551726638 272958 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551726792 123642 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1551726900 39588 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: if you want esoteric people to try text adventures, you can try to wire them up to IRC so they play on channel (or on #esoteric-blah if it gets annoying), with HackEso or with a custom bot. < 1551727021 950611 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if there is a such thing as IRC-Glk, but perhaps it can be written if it does not yet exist. (Yet, if you want to test the status window, then that won't work with IRC-Glk.) < 1551727041 712131 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you need a status window? that's more difficult then < 1551727042 286649 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I do not have time right now, but you can try, and/or perhaps later I can try.) < 1551727065 807695 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The game doesn't need a status window; it can work without. However, the status window can be helpful. < 1551727381 512990 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :could /topic be the status bar < 1551727410 263947 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a text grid window of more than one line in this game < 1551728117 160426 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The reason for the Latin notation is that the name of each piece starts with a different letter if they are written in Latin, but this is not the case in English" => like a king and a knight in chess or tarot? < 1551728156 637256 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? adjective < 1551728157 714267 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adjectives are words frequently found attached to chickens. < 1551728159 821769 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh what? < 1551729051 73980 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tuhkunbejwddsine JOIN :#esoteric < 1551729563 274100 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1551729702 338644 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1551730312 287501 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric > 1551731875 595090 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60252&oldid=60235 5* 03Cortex 5* (+123) 10 > 1551732307 223697 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60253&oldid=60252 5* 03Cortex 5* (+39) 10 < 1551733008 665573 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-faisccyhurmkflni JOIN :#esoteric < 1551733576 126142 :orbitaldecay_!~Bob@c-68-33-93-178.hsd1.va.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551733753 310963 :orbitaldecay!~Bob@c-68-33-94-10.hsd1.wv.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1551734958 724096 :orbitaldecay__!~Bob@c-68-33-93-178.hsd1.va.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551735127 65591 :orbitaldecay_!~Bob@c-68-33-93-178.hsd1.va.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1551735348 885637 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: that text adventure bot is a good idea < 1551736911 265035 :orbitaldecay_!~Bob@c-68-33-93-178.hsd1.va.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551736918 971242 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1551736954 177013 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551737050 69239 :orbitaldecay!~Bob@c-68-33-93-178.hsd1.va.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551737080 735425 :orbitaldecay__!~Bob@c-68-33-93-178.hsd1.va.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1551737167 277846 :orbitaldecay_!~Bob@c-68-33-93-178.hsd1.va.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1551737193 201239 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00815acc373546797f.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1551737279 674381 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1551737584 340226 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551738458 747832 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1551739667 254015 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551739744 959984 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551739752 563881 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1551739779 110636 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551739928 270347 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1551740247 4806 :housecarpenter!~housecarp@90.252.251.94 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551740367 285775 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1551740607 382261 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551740863 69617 :moony_!~moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric < 1551740874 187767 :moony_!~moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/Globidev/corewa-rs https://glo.bi/corewar/ someone made their own corewars < 1551740875 679329 :moony_!~moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks fun < 1551740963 835819 :moony_!~moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :favorite part from what i've looked at is it's usage of less abstract opcodes < 1551740977 157666 :moony_!~moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning really fun(tm) tactics like rewriting the opponent are possible < 1551741953 310140 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least just on a glance, it doesn't look *that* different from regular Redcode. < 1551742055 119636 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the field stuff is a little abstract, I guess, but you can definitely rewrite your opponent there too. < 1551742166 94556 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.200.33 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1551742529 18543 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1551744532 306348 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the chief problem with rewriting your opponent in redcode is that it's extremely difficult to manipulate the actual instruction part < 1551744650 483879 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if you have mov b, 30 at some address or whatever, it's easy to read, write and do logic on the operands, but the 'mov' part itself can only be written by copying a preexisting mov instruction from elsewhere over that cell < 1551744679 99049 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to 'read' it, i.e. perform useful logic based on the operation in a given instruction, i don't even know < 1551744906 740493 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-066-199-031.088.066.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1551744934 238626 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-066-199-031.088.066.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1551744992 910526 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551745383 245237 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551745487 401766 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1551745525 486996 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1551746016 968471 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1551746369 108854 :housecarpenter!~housecarp@90.252.251.94 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1551746396 234464 :housecarpenter!~housecarp@90.252.251.94 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551746576 687793 :housecarpenter!~housecarp@90.252.251.94 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1551746600 707017 :housecarpenter!~housecarp@90.252.251.94 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551746687 473164 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Phantom_Hoover The SEQ/SNE instructions (compare two instructions, skip next instruction if they are/aren't equal) can apparently "read" the instruction part, but as far as I can tell with the .I modifier it compares *all* fields, so it'd be hard to use to branch by instruction type. < 1551746687 827770 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1551747394 285492 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Taneb I think you're mistaken about monoid homomorphisms: (f<>g)(a<>b) has a similar problem, becoming either f(a)<>f(b)<>g(a)<>g(b) or f(a)<>g(a)<>f(b)<>g(b) dependent on how you expand it. < 1551747394 572701 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1551747745 15196 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : huh what? <-- . o O ( b_jonas has already forgotten boily ;_; ) < 1551748049 957158 :housecarpenter!~housecarp@90.252.251.94 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1551748074 76432 :housecarpenter!~housecarp@90.252.251.94 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551748801 966040 :housecarpenter!~housecarp@90.252.251.94 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1551748824 132398 :housecarpenter!~housecarp@90.252.251.94 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551749190 808371 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1551749492 158863 :moony_!~moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ?? has boily gone somewhere? Where's my chicken quit messages? < 1551749692 721276 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony_: i see him occasionally in my reddit friends list, but he hasn't been here on the channel in a long time < 1551749745 705570 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :bon soirjan < 1551749779 178062 :moony_!~moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :): < 1551749799 885204 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shalomchaf < 1551749827 180016 :moony_!~moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :this channel is slowly falling apart from what i can tell < 1551749828 208185 :moony_!~moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP < 1551749848 554332 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I thought that was a first, but apparently it's a 10th. < 1551749863 482308 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :10th what? < 1551749874 857508 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :time that's been said in this channel < 1551749903 308289 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one < 1551749915 472829 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing you said < 1551749929 953754 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha. i don't recall having seen it. < 1551749930 821100 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I don't want to repeat because it'll ruin my future grep counts. < 1551749954 671393 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no, I double counted old and new logs. < 1551749964 452909 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a fifth. < 1551749976 785848 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( minor or major fifth? ) < 1551750016 671817 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a major and minor fifth? < 1551750026 60683 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what a perfect fifth is. < 1551750045 233736 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minor fifth is 650 cents apparently. < 1551750066 465591 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And perfect fifth is 700 cents. < 1551750087 711330 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2**(700/1200) < 1551750089 824275 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1.4983070768766815 < 1551750092 154283 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2**(650/1200) < 1551750094 209020 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1.4556531828421873 < 1551750118 178526 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasn't there a function to find a rational number close to a real number? < 1551750133 587072 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, continued fraction cutoff < 1551750153 825052 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rationalize or something in scheme < 1551750169 490928 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, in Haskell. < 1551750171 423377 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or in lambdabot. < 1551750178 258337 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> rationalize < 1551750180 451033 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : error: < 1551750180 451100 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : • Variable not in scope: rationalize < 1551750180 592524 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : • Perhaps you meant ‘rational’ (imported from Text.PrettyPrint.HughesPJ) < 1551750314 30380 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let rationalize (a,b) | a <= 0 && b>= 0 = 0 | f <- floor a = a % 1 + 1 / rationalize (1/(b-f), 1/(a-f)) < 1551750315 574544 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1551750324 694534 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> rationalize (pi, exp 1) < 1551750326 723632 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : error: < 1551750326 857818 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : • Ambiguous type variable ‘b0’ arising from a use of ‘show_M301665704346... < 1551750327 132 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : prevents the constraint ‘(Show b0)’ from being solved. < 1551750332 14371 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fnord < 1551750372 599698 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let rationalize :: RealFrac a => (a,a) -> Rational < 1551750373 981145 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : .L.hs:163:28: error: < 1551750373 981196 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : • Couldn't match type ‘a’ with ‘Integer’ < 1551750374 216432 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : ‘a’ is a rigid type variable bound by < 1551750390 881362 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1551750392 959994 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@undef < 1551750393 525557 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Undefined. < 1551750414 503201 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let rationalize (a,b) | a <= 0 && b>= 0 = 0 | f <- floor a = a % 1 + 1 / rationalize (1/(b-f), 1/(a-f)) :: Rational < 1551750415 830589 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : .L.hs:161:10: error: < 1551750415 960244 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : • No instance for (RealFrac Integer) arising from a use of ‘floor’ < 1551750416 145679 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : • In a stmt of a pattern guard for < 1551750424 288120 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh duh < 1551750436 459069 :moony_!~moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still doesn't understand haskell. He has a good grasp on x86-64 assembly tho < 1551750457 285214 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let rationalize (a,b) | a <= 0 && b>= 0 = 0 | f <- floor a = a % 1 + 1 / rationalize (1/(b-fromIntegral f), 1/(a-fromIntegral f)) :: Rational < 1551750458 537263 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : .L.hs:161:10: error: < 1551750458 709313 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : • No instance for (RealFrac Integer) arising from a use of ‘floor’ < 1551750458 748871 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : • In a stmt of a pattern guard for < 1551750484 200318 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let rationalize (a,b) | a <= 0 && b>= 0 = 0 | f <- floor a = f % 1 + 1 / rationalize (1/(b-fromIntegral f), 1/(a-fromIntegral f)) :: Rational < 1551750485 636653 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1551750497 605940 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> rationalize (pi, exp 1) < 1551750499 925185 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Ratio has zero denominator < 1551750504 797729 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1551750591 478544 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic < 1551750625 240512 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@undef < 1551750625 713388 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Undefined. < 1551750719 138866 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh duh < 1551750727 863366 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let rationalize (a,b) | a <= 0 && b>= 0 = 0 | f <- floor a = f % 1 + 1 / rationalize (1/(b-fromIntegral f), 1/(a-fromIntegral f)) :: Rational < 1551750729 279050 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1551750742 982322 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> rationalize (exp 1, pi) < 1551750749 504384 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1551750761 925349 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :something is still fishy < 1551750883 92433 :moony__!~moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric < 1551751028 404447 :moony_!~moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1551751304 476969 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@undef < 1551751304 906912 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Undefined. < 1551751396 260584 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nyaa < 1551751953 28843 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let rationalize (a,b) | b <= 0 = -rationalize(-b,-a) | a < 0 = 0 | b <= 1 = 1/rationalize(1/b,1/a) | otherwise = 1 + rationalize(a-1,b-1) < 1551751954 573299 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1551751962 619553 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> rationalize (exp 1, pi) < 1551751964 870105 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3.0 < 1551751967 771548 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :whee < 1551752019 982144 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> rationalize (sqrt 5, exp 1) < 1551752022 478637 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2.5 < 1551752026 474848 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1551752031 965121 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> rationalize (sqrt 5, exp 1) :: Rational < 1551752034 426421 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5 % 2 < 1551752076 103716 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this formulation depends on Double Infs, i think < 1551752138 511985 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> rationalize (-pi, sqrt 2) < 1551752140 675368 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0.0 < 1551752153 320116 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let rationalize :: (Double, Double) -> Rational < 1551752154 762714 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1551752250 969631 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> rationalize (2,3) < 1551752253 300587 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5 % 2 < 1551752263 699304 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's open interval hth < 1551752423 581891 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> rationalize (pi, 1/0) < 1551752426 180910 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 % 1 < 1551752535 138556 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: there's also toRational of course, although that's more of "convert float to exact" < 1551752555 679415 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> toRational pi < 1551752558 233653 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 884279719003555 % 281474976710656 < 1551752589 764780 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :while rationalize finds the simplest fraction in an interval < 1551752632 249926 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(minimal abs of numerator/denominator) < 1551752833 538098 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I thought there was a function that took a precision or some other parameter. < 1551754936 688290 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1551755003 281104 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551756337 481948 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-faisccyhurmkflni QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1551756485 791973 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well scheme's rationalize does that. < 1551756594 446670 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, but I thought it was in Haskell. < 1551756633 580274 :housecarpenter!~housecarp@90.252.251.94 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1551756748 705561 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's probably a package... < 1551756762 601576 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google site:hackage.haskell.org rationalize < 1551756763 456604 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hackage.haskell.org/package/Haschoo-0.1.2/src/tests/r5rstest.scm < 1551756772 136531 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hum < 1551756793 922260 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it's probably relevant :P < 1551757224 235451 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tuhkunbejwddsine QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1551758437 187291 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1551764767 289543 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1551765664 336168 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> rationalize (10^8,10^8+1) < 1551765671 251757 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1551765755 229037 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( | otherwise = let b' = fromInteger (floor b) in b' + rationalize (a-b', b-b') ) < 1551765773 403245 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm < 1551765851 559363 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's too much :/ < 1551765925 678638 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess... | otherwise = let a' = max 1 (fromInteger (floor a')) in a' + (a - a', b - a') < 1551766249 853414 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pfykhnqrvlibqdfa JOIN :#esoteric < 1551766316 376995 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i started with using floor then decided i'd just write something obviously correct < 1551766347 82944 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551766358 673962 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :poof < 1551766362 203282 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: look < 1551766372 31650 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what ratio does 650 cents approximate < 1551766373 304801 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :twh < 1551766396 839309 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 13/5 < 1551766400 795584 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1551766412 804697 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you chose a bad time to ask tdnh < 1551766425 279105 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pronked < 1551766457 167666 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :13/2 < 1551766478 818009 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@wn pronk < 1551766485 282437 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pronked again < 1551766489 231321 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1551766502 662362 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY MIND IS GONE I CAN FEEL IT < 1551766514 284841 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i don't know what it means < 1551766517 338166 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i took it from this channel < 1551766519 975633 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least hal'f of it < 1551766528 61155 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-06.txt logs apparently? < 1551766531 107847 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloerjan < 1551766532 980971 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hichaf < 1551766536 889888 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :yogan < 1551766541 679905 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::3 < 1551766549 979435 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just ate some fried kimchi ramen noodle soup < 1551766553 373305 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was so good < 1551766644 271192 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is wondering what's before the "gan" these days < 1551766677 568166 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo hth < 1551766685 476281 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY < 1551766702 852464 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I kept my given name (Keegan) < 1551766715 32330 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like it, and it's relatively gender-neutral < 1551766734 493535 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric < 1551766742 211825 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1551766742 424701 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb lambdabot < 1551766753 291754 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 13/2 < 1551766762 515372 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 6.5 < 1551766768 610757 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also changing your name is a huge hassle, and i couldn't find a new one that I liked < 1551766772 247997 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2**(650/1200) < 1551766780 623335 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1.4556531828421873 < 1551766813 146130 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked my mom and apparently if born a girl, I would have been Caitlin or Kyla, which are okay but not super exciting < 1551766919 909788 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I half considered Cassandra since I keep making accurate predictions that nobody believes :P < 1551766922 914161 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's a pretty name < 1551766931 450841 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "Cathy and Cassie" doesn't work so well < 1551766931 678566 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1551766945 356542 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would call myself Alyssa but my girlfriend is already named that so that'd be weird < 1551766963 353344 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the best option I came up with was Nicole < 1551767151 984592 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I went ahead and got my new passport and driver's license with the gender marker changed but the same name as before < 1551767186 201432 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the california form, my doctor certified under penalty of perjury that I have a "female demeanor" :rolleyes: < 1551767297 66739 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's seriously a checkbox for "demeanor" < 1551767328 242661 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the end i had no trouble with either CA or the feds, and got both new identity documets quickly < 1551767339 554419 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(all 3 counting the passport card as well) < 1551767420 121369 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the US passport card is not very useful for travel unless your circumstances involve driving across the Canadian or Mexican border regularly < 1551767440 326732 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I did find it useful as a form of ID for non travel things, during the time when I was waiting for my new DL < 1551767487 569859 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic < 1551767605 717011 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let rationalize :: (Double, Double) -> Rational; rationalize (a,b) | b <= 0 = -rationalize(-b,-a) | a < 0 = 0 | b <= 1 = 1/rationalize(1/b,1/a) | let a'=max 1(fromInteger (floor a))=a' + rationalize (a-a',b-a') < 1551767606 869208 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : .L.hs:160:1: error: < 1551767606 977750 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Duplicate type signatures for ‘rationalize’ < 1551767607 65177 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : at .L.hs:158:1-11 < 1551767613 144737 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1551767622 442475 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@undef < 1551767622 726269 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Undefined. < 1551767627 21887 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let rationalize :: (Double, Double) -> Rational; rationalize (a,b) | b <= 0 = -rationalize(-b,-a) | a < 0 = 0 | b <= 1 = 1/rationalize(1/b,1/a) | let a'=max 1(fromInteger (floor a))=a' + rationalize (a-a',b-a') < 1551767628 173728 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : .L.hs:166:5: error: < 1551767628 283157 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : • Couldn't match type ‘Double’ with ‘Ratio Integer’ < 1551767628 283201 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Expected type: Rational < 1551767632 339986 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :f < 1551767688 990343 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let a = 1 in a+floor a < 1551767691 195823 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2 < 1551767802 804962 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let rationalize :: (Double, Double) -> Rational; rationalize (a,b) | b <= 0 = -rationalize(-b,-a) | a < 0 = 0 | b <= 1 = 1/rationalize(1/b,1/a) | let a'::Num x=>x;a'=max 1(fromInteger (floor a))=a' + rationalize (a-a',b-a') < 1551767804 303905 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : .L.hs:166:14: error: < 1551767804 343754 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : • Could not deduce (Ord x) arising from a use of ‘max’ < 1551767804 401434 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : from the context: Num x < 1551767818 85364 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1551767835 460586 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let rationalize :: (Double, Double) -> Rational; rationalize (a,b) | b <= 0 = -rationalize(-b,-a) | a < 0 = 0 | b <= 1 = 1/rationalize(1/b,1/a) | let a'::RealFrac x=>x;a'=max 1(fromInteger (floor a))=a' + rationalize (a-a',b-a') < 1551767837 31477 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1551767862 874882 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> rationalize (10^8,10^8+1) < 1551767865 349477 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 200000001 % 2 < 1551767935 484085 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it hit the thing that's not the monomorphism restriction but even hairier < 1551768015 155259 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let e=0.001 in rationalize (2**(650/1200)-e,2**(650/1200)+e) < 1551768018 27959 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 67 % 46 < 1551768028 342605 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hth < 1551768057 425654 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let e=0.002 in rationalize (2**(650/1200)-e,2**(650/1200)+e) < 1551768059 830673 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 16 % 11 < 1551768103 17813 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let [rationalize (2**(650/1200)-e,2**(650/1200)+e) | e<-[0.001, 0.0015..]] < 1551768105 306045 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : :1:75: error: < 1551768105 443663 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets) < 1551768113 264662 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocking < 1551768123 316636 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [rationalize (2**(650/1200)-e,2**(650/1200)+e) | e<-[0.001, 0.0015..]] < 1551768125 762941 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : [67 % 46,16 % 11,16 % 11,16 % 11,16 % 11,16 % 11,16 % 11,16 % 11,16 % 11,16 ... < 1551768150 34141 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :16/11 seems to be good for a range < 1551768233 472420 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let [rationalize (2**(650/1200)-e,2**(650/1200)+e) | e<-[0.005, 0.01..]] < 1551768235 593508 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : :1:73: error: < 1551768235 712177 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets) < 1551768240 49786 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Oh, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_fourth_and_minor_fifth agrees < 1551768243 702779 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [rationalize (2**(650/1200)-e,2**(650/1200)+e) | e<-[0.005, 0.01..]] < 1551768245 133592 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:11 < 1551768245 910137 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : [16 % 11,16 % 11,13 % 9,13 % 9,13 % 9,10 % 7,10 % 7,10 % 7,3 % 2,3 % 2,3 % 2... < 1551768448 828754 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is youtube video of someone playing a NES game recorded in 720p < 1551768525 134970 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the NES native resolution is 240p < 1551768661 135629 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION puts rationalize in his private Basic.hs file < 1551768814 223528 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you put it in the public Basic.hs file twh < 1551768851 590770 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1551769195 867381 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm < 1551769484 417261 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok, i'll just ask you next time i need a number rationalized tdh < 1551769682 881644 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Oh that's just the monomorphism restriction... I didn't think that through. < 1551769817 794841 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's also slightly nasty that the code divides by 0 :) < 1551769878 338674 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> rationalize (-0, 1) < 1551769884 742266 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1551769886 32469 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: no it isn't. < 1551769899 944312 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1551769902 274963 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 timing < 1551769906 271313 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean it's not the MR < 1551769934 205304 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is, a' is used at two different types < 1551769976 954830 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google MonoLocalBinds < 1551769977 865534 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/glasgow_exts.html < 1551770009 104375 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was looking up the name < 1551770013 923550 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :with NoMonoLocalBinds, no type signature for a' is required. < 1551770016 982976 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :MonoLocalBinds it is < 1551770032 382769 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: that's not the monomorphism restrictino. < 1551770034 741611 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*on < 1551770111 198492 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> rationalize (-1,0) < 1551770115 749278 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's true. < 1551770117 868335 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1551770120 946766 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that's a bug then < 1551770121 196739 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same effect, different reason. < 1551770170 330114 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :my relevant PPCG post https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/153744/wait-what-language-is-this/153927#153927 < 1551770267 576599 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(AFAIUI, the main purpose of MonoLocalBinds is to prevent accidental loss of sharing.) < 1551770324 202952 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then there's backward compatibility, and eliding quite a few type signatures. < 1551770394 255043 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you're right that I conflated this with the MR that prevents polymorphic references. < 1551770409 592276 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@undef < 1551770409 836241 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Undefined. < 1551770412 107796 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let rationalize :: (Double, Double) -> Rational; rationalize (a,b) | b <= 0 = -rationalize(-b,-a) | a < 0 = 0 | b <= 1 = 1/rationalize(1/b,1/abs a) | let a'::RealFrac x=>x;a'=max 1(fromInteger (floor a))=a' + rationalize (a-a',b-a') < 1551770413 954857 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1551770430 81458 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> rationalize (-1,0) < 1551770432 661909 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : (-1) % 2 < 1551770544 961248 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will, however, blame the Haskell report for this... since the Haskell monomorphism restriction actually applies to global bindings as well, even though it's not a soundness problem there; the reason is *the same* as for monomorphic let bindings. < 1551770577 656397 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ensure sharing of what in the case of top-level bindings are CAFs) < 1551770592 292986 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a soundness problem anywhere (except with unsafePerformIO)? < 1551770616 128155 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t newIORef < 1551770617 479716 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :error: < 1551770617 620060 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : • Variable not in scope: newIORef < 1551770617 620116 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : • Perhaps you meant ‘newSTRef’ (imported from Data.STRef) < 1551770622 983950 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t newSTRef < 1551770624 309084 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :a -> ST s (STRef s a) < 1551770631 480461 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t newSTRef undefined < 1551770632 845985 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :ST s (STRef s a) < 1551770658 632889 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you could get a polymorphic value out of this, you'd be in trouble. < 1551770686 746703 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh monomorphism of lambda arguments is something else again < 1551770700 910706 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's even for basic hindley-milner, i think < 1551770727 480937 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's what the ST monad needs < 1551770790 262936 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, darn. The ML term I'm looking for is "value restriction". < 1551770816 300063 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is /a/ monomorphism restriction? *shrugs* < 1551770828 202437 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :This stupid fuzzy memory of mine... :-/ < 1551770837 287573 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah was about to mention that < 1551770852 662498 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's needed once you have impure expressions < 1551770963 338511 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1551770972 76709 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551770974 628887 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ML value restriction is needed for soundness < 1551770993 358442 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Haskel monomorphism restriction is meant to prevent unexpected non-memoization < 1551771006 92933 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not needed for soundness < 1551771047 652493 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I guess you covered all this already < 1551773540 88373 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1551775532 67342 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.200.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551776093 297198 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1551776310 398120 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pfykhnqrvlibqdfa QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1551776823 94595 :orbitaldecay_!~Bob@c-68-33-93-218.hsd1.va.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551776977 64603 :orbitaldecay!~Bob@c-68-33-93-178.hsd1.va.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1551777155 770720 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@massages-lout < 1551777156 2802 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 8h 16m 1s ago: I think you're mistaken about monoid homomorphisms: (f<>g)(a<>b) has a similar problem, becoming either f(a)<>f(b)<>g(a)<>g(b) or f(a)<>g(a)<>f(b)<>g(b) dependent on how < 1551777156 135463 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :you expand it. < 1551777179 395810 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm < 1551777401 58335 :moony__!~moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1551777549 59909 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dlhrdqybtuelrwyc JOIN :#esoteric < 1551777887 668838 :moony_!~moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric < 1551778938 295524 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I was mistaken < 1551778984 720990 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1551779605 212412 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-066-199-031.088.066.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1551779629 816262 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-066-199-031.088.066.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1551779836 282105 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551779849 607346 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: re rationals, see https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=424519 for example < 1551780023 531617 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: there seem to be much better options in boy's names than girl's names < 1551781671 266257 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1551786192 505029 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pbflist https://pbfcomics.com/comics/untitled-candle-comic/ < 1551786193 932361 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pbflist https://pbfcomics.com/comics/untitled-candle-comic/: shachaf Sgeo quintopia ion b_jonas Cale > 1551787012 997360 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Drive-In Window14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60254&oldid=37325 5* 033snoW 5* (+134) 10 < 1551788325 128456 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dlhrdqybtuelrwyc QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1551788484 325145 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1551788502 223168 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1551788553 315350 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric > 1551788642 695051 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Featured languages/Candidates14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60255&oldid=60223 5* 03A 5* (+565) 10/* List of candidates */ < 1551788657 957110 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh! the updated software is, of course, not quite compatible with everything I have < 1551788668 305128 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I have to figure out what I have to change > 1551788681 485406 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Featured languages/Candidates14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60256&oldid=60255 5* 03A 5* (+68) 10/* List of candidates */ > 1551788703 923821 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Featured languages/Candidates14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60257&oldid=60256 5* 03A 5* (-29) 10/* List of candidates */ > 1551788719 409880 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Featured languages/Candidates14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60258&oldid=60257 5* 03A 5* (+3) 10/* List of candidates */ < 1551788727 317056 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1551788728 798359 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life > 1551788796 103087 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Featured languages/Candidates14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60259&oldid=60258 5* 03A 5* (+67) 10/* List of candidates */ < 1551788807 316423 :rodgort!~rodgort@68.ip-149-56-14.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1551788902 819253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Featured languages/Candidates14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60260&oldid=60259 5* 03A 5* (-49) 10/* List of candidates */ < 1551788967 484049 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vleicyctehhvkbgk JOIN :#esoteric > 1551789023 518490 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Featured languages/Candidates14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60261&oldid=60260 5* 03A 5* (+121) 10/* List of candidates */ < 1551789057 393637 :rodgort!~rodgort@68.ip-149-56-14.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1551789337 82817 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ShaFuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60262&oldid=35114 5* 03Arcorann 5* (+0) 10 > 1551789397 662862 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60263&oldid=60206 5* 03A 5* (+339) 10Add infobox < 1551789613 60631 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c83-254-216-72.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1551789613 152743 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c83-254-216-72.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Changing host < 1551789613 152780 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric > 1551789656 781354 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Template:Programming Language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60264&oldid=58387 5* 03Arcorann 5* (-3) 10https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Programming_language&diff=886211259&oldid=886194823 > 1551789678 246401 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Arcorann 5* 10moved [[02A programming language is a formal language, which comprises a set of instructions used to produce various kinds of output.10]] to [[A programming language is a formal language, which comprises a set of instructions that produce various kinds of output.]]: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Programming_lang > 1551789679 799547 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Featured languages/Candidates14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60267&oldid=60261 5* 03A 5* (+4) 10/* List of candidates */ > 1551789802 269682 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Featured languages/Candidates14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60268&oldid=60267 5* 03A 5* (+13) 10/* List of candidates */ > 1551790003 171192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A programming language is a formal language, which comprises a set of instructions that produce various kinds of output.14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60269&oldid=60265 5* 03Arcorann 5* (+208) 10It's too soon to see any programs written in the March 2019 version (apart from on this site and Wikipedia, of course), but hopefully that will change soon > 1551790029 900318 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Featured languages/Candidates14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60270&oldid=60268 5* 03A 5* (-34) 10/* List of candidates */ > 1551790447 421435 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60271&oldid=60263 5* 03A 5* (-61) 10/* References */ > 1551790987 957992 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60272&oldid=60271 5* 03A 5* (+428) 10Add overview(just adding more information) > 1551791176 846815 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60273&oldid=60272 5* 03A 5* (+81) 10/* Turing-completeness */ > 1551792053 590710 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60274&oldid=60273 5* 03A 5* (+125) 10/* Cat program (limited to integers) */ > 1551792223 131116 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60275&oldid=60274 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10/* Cat program (limited to integers) */ > 1551792277 732061 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60276&oldid=60275 5* 03A 5* (+32) 10/* Possible */ > 1551792313 164032 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60277&oldid=60276 5* 03A 5* (-2) 10/* Cat program (limited to integers) */ > 1551792618 490234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Featured languages/Candidates14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60278&oldid=60270 5* 03A 5* (+8) 10/* List of candidates */ > 1551792738 624383 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60279&oldid=60207 5* 03A 5* (-40) 10 < 1551794542 585856 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1551794873 798796 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what... suddenly the iterator doesn't work if the container is empty or what? < 1551795304 264630 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vmrsmaeljvvpqaxm JOIN :#esoteric < 1551795926 249025 :hakatashi2!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551796152 836428 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1551796375 722529 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric > 1551797461 101763 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Carbontwelve 5* 10New user account > 1551797787 307912 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60280&oldid=60249 5* 03Carbontwelve 5* (+271) 10My introduction < 1551797907 346860 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1551798223 286398 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH MY GOD I HATE GIT SO MUCH < 1551798243 230159 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has been sitting there "rebasing" for over 24 hours now < 1551798270 888460 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :taking up 100% of cpu and over 2 GB of memory < 1551798309 617922 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that time I could have EASILY done this with fucking patch files < 1551798334 516225 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's... not something I've ever seen happen < 1551798432 83156 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: you know you can just kill it, right? < 1551798451 562134 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: well yeah > 1551798458 116317 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07LDPL14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60281 5* 03Carbontwelve 5* (+597) 10Stub page for LDPL < 1551798467 954933 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: but what state would that leave my repo in < 1551798494 417703 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( more usable ) < 1551798497 93720 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :git rebase master < 1551798497 135100 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :First, rewinding head to replay your work on top of it... < 1551798505 582516 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nothing for 24 hours < 1551798547 998069 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: it's mostly immutable garbage-collected stuff, you only have to restore the refs > 1551798566 310430 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60282&oldid=60233 5* 03Carbontwelve 5* (+11) 10/* L */ adding Link to LDPL < 1551798594 977445 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that's why I don't rebase, it's confusing for me, I rather start a new branch and apply or revert < 1551798602 191974 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never experienced anything like that either. At that point I would assume that it won't finish. < 1551798607 974309 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so it left me on "no branch" < 1551798614 688941 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or use svn rather than git if I can, but that's not an option for an existing repo < 1551798620 695594 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :git checkout < 1551798630 30757 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll check out the branch I was trying to rebse < 1551798660 66323 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ideally now I'll create patch files from my branch and apply them manually < 1551798681 548206 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd also do a git fsck at that point. Depending on how paranoid I'm feeling, make a copy of the .git directory first (but git usually makes destroying objects really hard) < 1551798730 459588 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: this is a local repo, everything important is on the main repo < 1551798748 4756 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: _destroying_ objects is hard. it's just also hard to find the right objects, because it's too easy to change what each ref points to, especially with pull < 1551798770 4563 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't really get a timed history, only a half-ditched effort called the reflog < 1551798799 761204 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes and it's hardly ever been an issue for me. > 1551798830 367437 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07LDPL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60283&oldid=60281 5* 03Carbontwelve 5* (+10) 10Added stub text < 1551798901 589055 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm maybe I'll just check out an entirely new repository and delete this one < 1551798921 830683 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: the confusing bit about that behavior is this... what I'd expect git-rebase to do at that point is basically just a 'git checkout master -b rebase-temp'. That is, unless it was actually done rewinding and already collecting diffs, somehow. < 1551798960 727891 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1551799013 530997 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah what I expected git to do is 1. find the latest shared point between my branch and the master < 1551799031 298318 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. create a patch from that point to the head of my branch < 1551799040 607104 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :3. try to apply it to the head of master < 1551799068 854870 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apparently it is doing something more complicated < 1551799099 850168 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe it applies each commit in sequence < 1551799101 114138 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd expect a 3-way merge from the common ancestor? < 1551799107 114672 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a rebase < 1551799125 190927 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vleicyctehhvkbgk QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1551799131 454558 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um no, it has to apply each commit from the common ancestor to your branch onto the master, in sequence < 1551799180 148726 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: right. but my branch has like, 20 commits max < 1551799185 973024 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's so much cleaner when I use apply or revert rather than rebase, because the way rebase changes what refs point to just cnofuses me to heck < 1551799201 457410 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I meant for each revision separately.) < 1551799213 124038 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's easier to abort or continue the apply too when there's a conflict or anything < 1551799226 703091 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so my current theory is that that "common ancestor" is way further back than it should be < 1551799242 230588 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: sure, they do a proper diff3 these days, with a diff3 engine built into git, rather than just a patch < 1551799423 665537 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah. "revision" is mercurial terminology. I mean "commit". < 1551799709 177022 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :git clone $GIT_ORIGIN_REPO i_hate_git < 1551799738 217623 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the command to get a patch from commit XXX to commit YYY < 1551799795 872724 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: git diff XXX YYY -- < 1551799797 658876 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :git diff [] [--] [...] < 1551799825 566124 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yes, but what are the right options? < 1551799845 110948 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok cool that should work with the path part since I knw nothing outside a particular directory ought to have changed < 1551799937 89029 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: They are optional. This is the one of the five versions listed in the manpage that is applicable to the question. < 1551800588 503227 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I'll just create a pacth file, create an entirely new branch and apply the patch file over the head of master < 1551800603 651689 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, the head of that branch which is the head of master < 1551800662 489756 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck < 1551800944 350774 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: or create a new branch from master, then apply the commits from your branch, creating a new commit for each, with (git cherry-pick ..yourbranch), it will stop on a conflict and you can (git cherry-pick --abort) to cancel trying to resolve the conflicts; or (git cherry-pick -n ..yourbranch) to apply all of them at once without creating a commi < 1551800944 443885 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :t, which lets you collapse your commits to a single one < 1551801162 841748 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, git is bs, because the command I use the most frequently is an alias to git status -bs < 1551801181 962493 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a few other aliases where the defaults are ... strange < 1551802546 317039 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551803766 725819 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :-reject < 1551804146 652439 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, this is actually working < 1551804290 71637 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client > 1551804848 327802 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60284&oldid=60253 5* 03Cortex 5* (+744) 10 < 1551804865 866626 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vmrsmaeljvvpqaxm QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1551805290 283843 :digitalcold!~redacted@unaffiliated/digitalcold JOIN :#esoteric < 1551805314 280355 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric > 1551806535 504934 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60285&oldid=60284 5* 03Cortex 5* (+120) 10 > 1551806619 989546 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60286&oldid=60285 5* 03Cortex 5* (+36) 10 < 1551808304 739578 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-18.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1551809291 236216 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1551811632 831086 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :< wob_jonas> kmc: there seem to be much better options in boy's names than girl's names <--- hmm, how do you mean? < 1551811671 970651 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-18.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: that's probably just my biased opinion < 1551811724 843191 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by 'better' though < 1551811730 785098 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nicer sounding? < 1551811737 6332 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-18.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally subjective < 1551811797 220466 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1551811899 319523 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a005c262423200b0078.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1551812246 274807 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, note to self, rebasing manually is a lot of work, but may be less mental anguish than trying to understand what is wrong with your git repository < 1551812290 629360 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :git freebase < 1551814048 962313 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it's true that I didn't find a name I liked better than Keegan, on the other hand, Keegan is an unusually great name < 1551814062 55497 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my parents had good (unintentional) foresight by giving me something gender-neutral-ism < 1551814064 964519 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ish* < 1551814091 720273 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :one less hassle... < 1551814108 140527 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keegan means "firey one" in Gaelic or something < 1551814116 454244 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my wife met an orange polydactyl cat named Keegan < 1551814139 311063 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat < 1551814146 875716 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1551814147 745711 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat < 1551814171 65387 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-18.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ate catfish < 1551814179 965607 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :🐈 < 1551814203 50137 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-18.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now I wonder if there's a deadfish variant that can still only print literal strings, but with a more efficient encoding, like it prints anything after a quotation mark < 1551814473 956386 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a005c262423200b0078.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551814543 444831 :LKoen!~LKoen@lfbn-idf2-1-273-77.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1551814840 313925 :LKoen!~LKoen@lfbn-idf2-1-273-77.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551815245 160495 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00f4adbe8cab8724e7.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1551816154 383918 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, did you ever play halo < 1551816195 173736 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :also fizzie re the lambdabot message yeah that's what i remember < 1551816221 662889 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: only casually at parties with friends < 1551816222 596020 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1551816295 996674 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a ship in, uh, one of the spinoff games called 'spirit of fire' < 1551816307 921008 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was one of a few really excellent ship names in halo < 1551816504 19872 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1551816504 223286 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :also a nicely subtle tolkien reference < 1551816509 686779 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as good as the Culture ship names < 1551816594 835751 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :well nothing is as good as those < 1551816615 347755 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1551816807 298430 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1551816876 441308 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absolutely No You-Know-What < 1551816909 374411 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stood Far Back When The Gravitas Was Handed Out < 1551816940 357589 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00f4adbe8cab8724e7.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551817286 480448 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a008d499a411b8db559.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1551817952 323681 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a008d499a411b8db559.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551818225 270595 :LKoen!~LKoen@lfbn-idf2-1-273-77.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1551819246 481346 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-owluxmlmnlawdvju JOIN :#esoteric < 1551820067 142305 :orbitaldecay__!~Bob@c-68-33-93-134.hsd1.va.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551820250 89009 :orbitaldecay_!~Bob@c-68-33-93-218.hsd1.va.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1551822637 718574 :LKoen!~LKoen@lfbn-idf2-1-273-77.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551822808 373407 :LKoen!~LKoen@lfbn-idf2-1-273-77.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1551822883 455581 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/project-zero/issues/detail?id=1792 < 1551822907 539960 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the year 2019 linux still has bugs with mapping page 0 < 1551822911 494009 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1551823285 421860 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-18.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: but since nobody runs an x86_32 kernel, nobody runs emulators using v86 mode, so nobody needs to map the null page, so it no longer matters < 1551823385 709815 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-18.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait wait < 1551823399 422232 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-18.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that you _can_ map the null page? < 1551823402 998159 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-18.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're supposed to be able to map it < 1551823471 884124 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not when mmap_min_addr is higher than 0. < 1551823608 535948 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: you're not < 1551823616 10030 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the past 10+ years < 1551823624 783419 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it makes it easy to exploit a kernel-mode NULL dereference < 1551823671 55135 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-18.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: um, not even on the recent cpus that have an easy way to make the kernel unable to accidentally access user memory? < 1551823704 556424 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean Intel SMAP? < 1551823714 416086 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would help yes < 1551823730 197451 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway not all CPUs have that, and at any rate it's good to have multiple lines of defense < 1551823739 681029 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-18.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: dunno, is that the one where you can mark pages with a very short ID, and there's a register that tells which IDs are allowed, and you can even use them at user level with some kernel support now? < 1551823746 959669 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-18.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, it's only the latest cpus < 1551823754 946914 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik, there is no compelling reason to allow mapping a page at 0 < 1551823758 988204 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-18.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sure, if the /proc thing is set to not allow it, then yes, it shouldn't be allowed < 1551823813 25810 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-18.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, there are a lot of optional /proc knobs like that < 1551823821 460092 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-18.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :including the one that denies using ptrace completely < 1551823833 827025 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-18.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes sense to have one of these as well I guess < 1551824160 243610 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr < 1551824160 849972 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :4096 < 1551824351 820067 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vaguely remember DOSEMU used to remember mmap_min_addr=0. < 1551824374 380528 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't think it's really applicable on x86-64 anyway. < 1551824543 34164 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.200.33 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1551824587 695211 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-18.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, fizzie, the last time you said you have to think about whether HackEso is specifically for the esoteric community or not, and that's why you might not want to make it join other channels. in that case, how about joining it to #esoteric-blah ? < 1551825089 835513 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's not much point using dosemu anymore < 1551825100 133649 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :dosbox works great and is a pure emulator with no weird platform dependencies < 1551825142 321099 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile my father-in-law runs his 30 year old turbo pascal programs in a dos window in Windows XP, in an emulator under Windows 10 < 1551825147 173248 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :to each his own < 1551825724 381579 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: That sounds uncontroversial. < 1551825733 975893 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-18.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: as you may know if you hung around on this channel, I used both bochs and dosbox to run DOS programs on linux, including games and a compiler. at one point I hooked up a DOS system ran by bochs to IRC, making a very noisy bot. < 1551825767 821349 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-18.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but qemu had improved significantly since, so I might use qemu the next time I want to do something like this < 1551825974 329476 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1551825989 337376 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0u6xxh_JL0 < 1551826008 740793 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-18.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, borland C on dos is a compiler that seems really weird now < 1551826027 523035 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-18.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't that weird back then of course < 1551826059 655840 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-18.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually accepts `long long` as a type without an error, and parses it as if it were just `long`, so programs using it compile but silently fail because it's only 32 bit long < 1551826253 286625 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1551826301 858180 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1551826305 169357 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've used it < 1551826308 548795 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :C integer types are dumb anyway < 1551826329 336131 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-18.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course most of those programs won't compile, because they assume you have a modern standard library, and will refer to identifiers that aren't in borland C's < 1551826367 301434 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know that the XC8 compiler for PIC has 'short long'? < 1551826372 281924 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's longer than a short, but shorter than a long < 1551826376 556793 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 24 bits < 1551826379 595326 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-18.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1551826380 619473 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh oh < 1551826389 714342 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-18.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know that < 1551826418 614744 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Looks like multibot is technically a little bit single-channeled. Although as far as I can tell, the only things that affect are (a) the built-in automatic JOIN, and (b) whether it looks for "PRIVMSG-chan.cmd" or "PRIVMSG-user.cmd" for the first-level fallback (from "PRIVMSG/tr_XX.cmd" based on the first command character). < 1551826424 267899 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-18.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it would go like char, long char, short short, short, long short, int, short long, long, long long, long long long < 1551826453 879865 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"who likes short shorts?" < 1551826494 392543 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-18.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, those days C counted as a high level language and borland C counted as an optimizing compiler; these days we'd call it a low level language an a non-optimizing compiler < 1551826499 627876 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::2:15: error: 'long long long' is too long for GCC < 1551826504 538752 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hadn't heard of "short long", though I think the one Motorola 56K C implementation had a 24-bit `int` and a 48-bit `long`. < 1551826512 565043 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-18.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also has some sort of support for an ancient form of C++ < 1551826556 64058 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-18.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR the C compiler for Magic-1 uses 32-bit long longs, but maybe that's just a mistake in the description < 1551826559 128326 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-18.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me look that up < 1551826592 172768 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( optimizing compiler, n. - a compiler that uses more than two registers in the generated machine code ) < 1551826619 199417 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The c56 compiler doesn't support "long long" at all, it's just an error. < 1551826642 838775 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-18.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah, it has 32-bit multiplication built in, and can target actual 8086 (though I don't think I ever invoked it that way, normally I ask it to compile for 386), so it needs to use more than two registers for that < 1551826695 679381 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in compilers class we had an optimization shootout, and we implemented a bunch of them (my teammate burned through about a month's supply of Adderall in a week) but the most effective turned out to be one of the simplest: replacing mul/div by a power of two with shifts < 1551826703 345249 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the test program was full of fixed point math :) < 1551826723 449148 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we won even though our compiler was very dumb in other ways, like failing to coalesce moves < 1551826736 923330 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would do like mov %eax, %ebx; mov %ebx, %eax < 1551826755 312035 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it's funny. we've somewhat stopped measuring compile speed (turbo pascal could compile what, 1000 lines per second on a 20MHz machine?) < 1551826780 165320 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't even remember the order of magnitude anymore < 1551826834 592378 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-18.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, I probably just misremembered that about magic-1 < 1551826843 224934 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-18.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.homebrewcpu.com/ by the way < 1551826874 378709 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: well except good ole TCC < 1551826885 508919 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: TCC can compile and run a linux kernel < 1551826890 434764 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-18.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: was the test program known in advance? or was it a lucky guess? < 1551826939 42997 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall, actually < 1551826942 524986 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-18.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1551826947 39378 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think c56 also does a non-compliant thing where `char` and `short` act as 8- and 16-bit types, respectively, but still take up one (24-bit) word of storage. < 1551826951 933919 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, the `short` part is fine. But `char` isn't supposed to have any padding bytes.) < 1551827010 646720 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a special magic `_packed char` type that tries to support strings packed efficiently (three octets per word) but it also has a sizeof 1 so incrementing a _packed char pointer by 1 moves it by 3 characters. < 1551827018 672693 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought the main guarantee about char is that copying an array of char is the same as copying any type < 1551827021 805630 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You're supposed to use access macros with it.) < 1551827039 224293 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. that memcpy() takes char* < 1551827060 391406 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that no longer the case? < 1551827065 421336 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-owluxmlmnlawdvju QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1551827073 566799 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, memcpy takes a void *. But you're supposed to be able to *implement* memcpy via using a `unsigned char *` to access the object representations. < 1551827086 551005 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And you can't do that on that implementation.) < 1551827096 555242 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1551827134 929647 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I'm not sure what code it generates. Maybe it happens to work if you just do the usual *dst++ = *src++. < 1551827245 729064 :LKoen!~LKoen@lfbn-idf2-1-273-77.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551827253 334005 :LKoen!~LKoen@lfbn-idf2-1-273-77.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1551827547 276320 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1551827775 50837 :LKoen!~LKoen@lfbn-idf2-1-273-77.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551830086 53506 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: rebooting < 1551830172 57434 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1551830501 701138 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1551830550 49995 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1551830952 125551 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1551830967 259325 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1551830976 110431 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551831390 464986 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: Rebooting again.. < 1551831472 51661 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1551831803 464603 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-18.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1551831812 773480 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551831967 292115 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1551831967 793881 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1551833456 934495 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1551833506 63486 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551833735 113699 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: re rationals, see https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=424519 for example <-- i know, but my function takes care to find the unique best in an open interval (barring floating point errors) < 1551833893 870399 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :istr you can maybe find those from the continued fractions too, except you sometimes need to increment the last number < 1551833931 523005 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> rationalize (pi-0.01, pi+0.01) < 1551833933 428954 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 22 % 7 < 1551833950 645244 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t rationalize < 1551833951 725624 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Double, Double) -> Rational < 1551833956 680909 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 22/7 < 1551833958 556035 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3.142857142857143 < 1551833965 763194 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> rationalize (pi-0.01, pi+0.001) < 1551833967 773535 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 47 % 15 < 1551833977 532896 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> rationalize (exp 1 - 0.01, exp 1 + 0.01) < 1551833979 331148 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 19 % 7 < 1551833984 699015 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think that is in the continued fraction < 1551833998 462012 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where pi_10 < 1551833998 747709 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :(!!3)<$>transpose[show$foldr(\k a->2*10^2^n+a*k`div`(2*k+1))0[1..2^n]|n<-[0..]] < 1551834003 524955 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> rationalize (pi-0.001, pi+0.001) < 1551834006 196812 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 201 % 64 < 1551834007 148468 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (!!3)<$>transpose[show$foldr(\k a->2*10^2^n+a*k`div`(2*k+1))0[1..2^n]|n<-[0..]] < 1551834010 769153 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : "314159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510582097494459230781640628... < 1551834025 688514 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo that's p. good golfing < 1551834056 649878 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( did i really use "barring" instead of "modulo" up there? i may have to hand in my mathematician card ) < 1551834264 791356 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let cf x | let f()=fromInteger(floor x) = [f(),f()+1] ++ map((f()+).recip) (cf (1/(x-f()))) :: Rational < 1551834266 540524 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : : error: < 1551834266 540586 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : not an expression: ‘let cf x | let f()=fromInteger(floor x) = [f(),f()+1... < 1551834277 269573 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let cf x | let f()=fromInteger(floor x) = [f(),f()+1] ++ map((f()+).recip) (cf (1/(x-f()))) :: Rational < 1551834278 486094 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : .L.hs:161:1: error: < 1551834278 635667 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : • Couldn't match type ‘Ratio Integer’ with ‘[t]’ < 1551834278 635702 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Expected type: t -> [t] < 1551834287 937980 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let cf x | let f()=fromInteger(floor x) = [f(),f()+1] ++ map((f()+).recip) (cf (1/(x-f()))) :: [Rational] < 1551834289 159084 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1551834292 439777 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> cf pi < 1551834294 250539 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : error: < 1551834294 340756 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : • No instance for (Floating (Ratio Integer)) < 1551834294 340806 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of ‘pi’ < 1551834302 750440 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fff < 1551834352 115260 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i though adding () should make it polymorphic enough < 1551834433 13108 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let cf x | let f()=fromInteger(floor x) = [f(),f()+1] ++ map((f()+).recip) (cf (1/(x-f()))) :: [Rational] in cf pi < 1551834435 99798 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : error: < 1551834435 182426 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : • No instance for (Floating (Ratio Integer)) < 1551834435 182490 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of ‘pi’ < 1551834468 570809 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let cf x | let f::Integral a => ()->a; f()=fromInteger(floor x) = [f(),f()+1] ++ map((f()+).recip) (cf (1/(x-f()))) :: [Rational] in cf pi < 1551834470 472528 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : error: < 1551834470 567511 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : • Could not deduce (Integral Rational) arising from a use of ‘f’ < 1551834470 567560 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : from the context: (RealFrac t, Integral t) < 1551834513 966895 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let cf :: Double -> [Rational]; cf x | let f()=fromInteger(floor x) = [f(),f()+1] ++ map((f()+).recip) (cf (1/(x-f()))) :: [Rational] in cf pi < 1551834515 823995 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : error: < 1551834515 905086 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : • Couldn't match type ‘Double’ with ‘Ratio Integer’ < 1551834515 944546 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Expected type: [Rational] < 1551834642 245428 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh it must be MonoLocalBinds because it works in ghci < 1551834703 654170 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let cf :: Double -> [Rational]; cf x | let f::a => Num a; f=fromInteger(floor x) = [f,f+1] ++ map((f+).recip) (cf (1/(x-f))) :: [Rational] in cf pi < 1551834705 566461 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : error: < 1551834705 730234 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : • Expected a type, but ‘Num a’ has kind ‘Constraint’ < 1551834705 730282 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : • In the type signature: f :: a => Num a < 1551834731 397880 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let cf :: Double -> [Rational]; cf x | let f::Num a => a; f=fromInteger(floor x) = [f,f+1] ++ map((f+).recip) (cf (1/(x-f))) :: [Rational] in cf pi < 1551834733 269487 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : [3 % 1,4 % 1,22 % 7,25 % 8,333 % 106,355 % 113,355 % 113,688 % 219,103993 % ... < 1551834747 444254 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1551834778 313705 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> rationalize (pi-0.001, pi+0.001) < 1551834780 313006 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 201 % 64 < 1551834789 12489 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely not in there < 1551834836 580007 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (pi-22/7, pi-25/8, pi-333/106, pi-355/113) < 1551834838 522340 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : (-1.2644892673496777e-3,1.6592653589793116e-2,8.32196275291075e-5,-2.6676418... < 1551834907 113091 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where rationalize < 1551834907 387773 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know nothing about rationalize. < 1551835050 31325 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where+ rationalize @let rationalize :: (Double, Double) -> Rational; rationalize (a,b) | b <= 0 = -rationalize(-b,-a) | a < 0 = 0 | b <= 1 = 1/rationalize(1/b,1/abs a) | let a'::RealFrac x=>x;a'=max 1(fromInteger (floor a))=a' + rationalize (a-a',b-a') < 1551835050 302490 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1551835056 387980 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where rationalize < 1551835056 720357 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : @let rationalize :: (Double, Double) -> Rational; rationalize (a,b) | b <= 0 = -rationalize(-b,-a) | a < 0 = 0 | b <= 1 = 1/rationalize(1/b,1/abs a) | let a'::RealFrac x=>x;a'=max 1(fromInteger ( < 1551835056 720398 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :floor a))=a' + rationalize (a-a',b-a') < 1551835505 59470 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551835775 30595 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds > 1551838865 545360 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60287&oldid=60286 5* 03Cortex 5* (+56) 10 > 1551838928 617936 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60288&oldid=60103 5* 03Cortex 5* (+50) 10 < 1551842022 33248 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551842282 33267 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1551843279 196872 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551844346 529202 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if next freefall will show sam having severe stomach trouble :P < 1551844445 957207 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some other unexpected side effect < 1551845785 436154 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bomvnonoaiyucapb JOIN :#esoteric < 1551845796 346616 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1551848514 211520 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551848802 67231 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1551849773 392595 :moony_!~moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1551849779 223820 :moony__!~moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric < 1551850371 208208 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in girl genius, thinks get even weirder than i expected. < 1551850626 198058 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*things < 1551853157 45455 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: adu > 1551854548 760717 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60289&oldid=60288 5* 03Arcorann 5* (+0) 10/* ALLSCII */ > 1551855507 988862 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60290&oldid=60289 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+1) 10Dummy edit (aka "what, no one has messed up the sorting?") > 1551856117 580097 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Programming Language14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60291&oldid=58391 5* 03Oerjan 5* (-3) 10This page needs manual updating (alas redirects cannot use templates) > 1551856222 54534 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Oerjan 5* 10deleted "[[02A programming language is a formal language, which comprises a set of instructions used to produce various kinds of output.10]]": Renamed again < 1551857198 667422 :hakatashi2!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551857216 791286 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551858281 301085 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551858744 462127 :LKoen!~LKoen@135.238.155.250 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551858772 47986 :LKoen!~LKoen@135.238.155.250 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1551859567 241840 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bomvnonoaiyucapb QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1551861631 778768 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1551862577 33123 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.200.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551863011 34119 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551863315 478592 :orbitaldecay!~Bob@c-68-33-93-38.hsd1.va.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551863478 247303 :orbitaldecay__!~Bob@c-68-33-93-134.hsd1.va.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1551864829 339283 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc865 < 1551865080 299847 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2324 < 1551865239 254339 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net PART :#esoteric < 1551865257 837923 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Outlandish GG theory: this is Violetta < 1551865316 374054 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be JOIN :#esoteric > 1551865571 881120 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Featured languages/Candidates14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60292&oldid=60278 5* 03A 5* (-4) 10/* List of candidates */ > 1551865843 512391 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Featured languages/Candidates14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60293&oldid=60292 5* 03A 5* (+46) 10/* List of candidates */ < 1551865906 401715 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think nominating your own language to be featured is rather poor form > 1551865983 144899 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60294&oldid=60277 5* 03A 5* (-6) 10Remove what I commented < 1551866440 885563 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I nominate Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download for the best-named esolang < 1551868127 49071 :cochain!~ghostface@user-0c8ghej.cable.mindspring.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1551868134 617924 :cochain!~ghostface@user-0c8ghej.cable.mindspring.com PART :#esoteric < 1551869487 284933 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1551869600 210420 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551871678 22518 :feeb!sid310875@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tkkkmpafqclcmtnf NICK :dog_star < 1551875085 314997 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551875218 734167 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1551875219 107100 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1551875430 744856 :orbitaldecay!~Bob@c-68-33-93-38.hsd1.va.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :7\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\rgft=v cfvgggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg < 1551875591 206431 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://i.redd.it/hc4zvr0obck21.png < 1551876952 217494 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1551876983 151784 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1551877008 299127 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1551878083 827610 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: child or cat? < 1551879525 771053 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm? < 1551879755 445455 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... tab completion < 1551879763 773916 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: child or cat? < 1551879769 733426 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: sorry < 1551879771 297731 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1551879773 644765 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: sorry < 1551880515 347527 :dog_star!sid310875@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tkkkmpafqclcmtnf NICK :dogstar < 1551880569 769692 :dogstar!sid310875@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tkkkmpafqclcmtnf NICK :dog_star > 1551882722 555245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60295&oldid=60294 5* 03A 5* (+110) 10/* Continuation on the above by User:Helen (Implementing arithematic operations) */ > 1551883203 84190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60296&oldid=60295 5* 03A 5* (-429) 10/* Language Overview */ > 1551883762 892397 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60297&oldid=60296 5* 03A 5* (+151) 10/* Continuation on the above by User:Helen (Implementing arithematic operations) */ > 1551884269 252186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60298&oldid=60297 5* 03A 5* (+173) 10/* Common Algorithms */ > 1551884438 588890 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60299&oldid=60298 5* 03A 5* (+127) 10/* Continuation on the above by User:Helen (Implementing arithematic operations) */ < 1551884445 234321 :orbitaldecay_!~Bob@c-68-33-93-38.hsd1.va.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1551884498 819571 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60300&oldid=60299 5* 03A 5* (+93) 10/* Incrementing */ < 1551884669 400341 :orbitaldecay!~Bob@c-68-33-93-38.hsd1.va.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1551884753 238355 :orbitaldecay_!~Bob@c-68-33-93-38.hsd1.va.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds > 1551885005 402787 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Helen14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60301 5* 03A 5* (+126) 10Request help from User:Helen > 1551885202 540150 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60302&oldid=60300 5* 03A 5* (+67) 10/* Continuation on the above by User:Helen (Implementing arithematic operations) */ < 1551885754 852280 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: lol tabs > 1551885903 865518 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60303&oldid=60279 5* 03A 5* (-3) 10 < 1551887582 575886 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah we are movig ofices soon and i have to organize < 1551888297 268085 :orbitaldecay!~Bob@c-68-33-93-185.hsd1.va.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551888378 265659 :orbitaldecay_!~Bob@c-68-33-93-185.hsd1.va.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551888547 273016 :orbitaldecay!~Bob@c-68-33-93-185.hsd1.va.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1551888877 304119 :orbitaldecay!~Bob@c-68-33-93-185.hsd1.va.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551888987 374188 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :1,0𝔗𝔥𝔢 𝔑𝔢𝔴 𝔜𝔬𝔯𝔨 𝔗𝔦𝔪𝔢𝔰 doesn't use fraktur, they use a more readable blackletter font, does anyone know which one? < 1551889004 261819 :orbitaldecay__!~Bob@c-68-33-93-185.hsd1.va.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551889107 309814 :orbitaldecay_!~Bob@c-68-33-93-185.hsd1.va.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1551889187 323238 :orbitaldecay!~Bob@c-68-33-93-185.hsd1.va.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1551889238 372960 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qjtalnkdperrxphm JOIN :#esoteric < 1551889347 251284 :orbitaldecay_!~Bob@c-68-33-93-185.hsd1.va.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551889487 321795 :orbitaldecay__!~Bob@c-68-33-93-185.hsd1.va.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1551889708 212395 :orbitaldecay_!~Bob@c-68-33-93-185.hsd1.va.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1551891936 500790 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1551892862 441181 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a007937f4b7ba87e12e.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1551893723 235535 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1551895334 392356 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a007937f4b7ba87e12e.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551895479 661505 :LKoen!~LKoen@lfbn-idf2-1-273-77.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1551896674 886938 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing : thing.c < 1551896706 957107 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps bonghits will fix my makefile < 1551896743 990430 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it turned out the make accidentally impossible to succeed < 1551896770 598179 :LKoen!~LKoen@lfbn-idf2-1-273-77.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551896791 786112 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because, the perl script passed it the wrong arguments < 1551896818 947692 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because, the makefile that calls the perl script, had the wrong variable definitions < 1551896867 317945 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because, the shell script that calls the makefile was written wrong < 1551896869 329693 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1551896873 319279 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's my fault < 1551896890 304324 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :d'oh < 1551896899 645545 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should add more scripts < 1551896939 998307 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i am considering how a makefile can possibly check its arguments < 1551897018 542994 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qjtalnkdperrxphm QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1551897053 904288 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :AHA < 1551897499 696029 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can put a bunch of ifdefs < 1551897638 922141 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then set a variable like FAKE_VARIABLE = $(shell touch foo) < 1551897680 330527 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then have foo as a prequisite for my rules, making the thing fail immediately instead of after 2 hours < 1551898677 758097 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00f1712a5809f7b12e.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1551899352 276767 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.unicode.org/mail-arch/unicode-ml/y2019-m03/0002.html < 1551899375 707202 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ guy seems somewhat pompous < 1551899383 107650 :orbitaldecay_wor!32e0e343@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.224.227.67 JOIN :#esoteric > 1551899396 630453 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Zahlen14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60304 5* 03Orby 5* (+6997) 10Introducing Zahlen. Documenting binary operators. < 1551899945 253922 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, how would one extract individual bits from a integer, individual integers from a list or set? < 1551900242 550211 :orbitaldecay_wor!32e0e343@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.224.227.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: many operations are yet undocumented. casting a logical to a list will create a bit vector < 1551900261 102468 :orbitaldecay_wor!32e0e343@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.224.227.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there will be an explode operator for sets and lists < 1551900269 156762 :orbitaldecay_wor!32e0e343@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.224.227.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :still working on the unary operators < 1551900357 86739 :orbitaldecay_wor!32e0e343@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.224.227.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have it written out in a text file, but it's going to take some time to prettify it for the wiki < 1551900361 762167 :orbitaldecay_wor!32e0e343@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.224.227.67 NICK :orby_work < 1551900388 371829 :orby_work!32e0e343@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.224.227.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wiki tables are cumbersome :( < 1551900412 740714 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric > 1551900579 545179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Zahlen14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60305&oldid=60304 5* 03Orby 5* (+47) 10 > 1551901007 1009 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Zahlen14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60306&oldid=60305 5* 03Orby 5* (+372) 10Expanding introduction. Adding more subsections. < 1551901228 23446 :orby_work!32e0e343@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.224.227.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's actually quite interesting to think about the various ways one can usefully cast between a logical, integer, list, and set. A logical most obviously casts to a bit list, but when casting to a set you can think of a logical as an inclusion mask for the set (i.e. if bit i is set, then integer i is in S). < 1551901262 690406 :orby_work!32e0e343@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.224.227.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :While an integer might just cast to a singleton set. < 1551901446 679880 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1551901824 824172 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Works in progress14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60307&oldid=60230 5* 03Orby 5* (+57) 10 < 1551902018 428709 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1551902079 740039 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Orby14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60308&oldid=60171 5* 03Orby 5* (+92) 10Adding Zahlen to my language list < 1551902142 73118 :orby_work!32e0e343@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.224.227.67 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1551902275 228695 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00f1712a5809f7b12e.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551903148 50943 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, oerjan was right in 2012 < 1551905291 271018 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551905323 641642 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :could someone tell me if there's currently an Internet backbone dispute going on? many websites work fine for me, but many connections on port 80 get a "connected", followed by no response from the other end until the connection times out < 1551905335 653361 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all the websites I normally check to see if there's an ongoing backbone dispute are in the latter group < 1551905363 513734 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so either something's gone badly wrong at my ISP, or else there's a rift in the Internet again, and I'm trying to determine which < 1551905575 511831 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages? < 1551905575 694590 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, no messages today. < 1551905637 524833 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1551906042 301954 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi b_jonas < 1551906065 650472 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1551906112 953424 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently struggling with a malfunctioning Internet connection, a sizeable minority of websites are failing (if I connect to them on port 80, the connection is accepted but the website never sends anything), I'm wondering if it's a backbone dispute or whether it's something at my ISP < 1551906152 284590 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the internet is working fine for me < 1551906172 421204 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hmm, it just fixed itself < 1551906186 384530 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a DNS crapout < 1551906188 17987 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1551906210 755615 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be some "transparent" HTTP proxy < 1551906240 944484 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: definitely not DNS, that's the first thing I checked < 1551906253 516447 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it'll be hard to diagnose now that it's stopped < 1551906268 294651 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was busy connecting to sites using telnet to port 80 to see what happened < 1551906361 551931 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_EfDSnToKY < 1551906534 716587 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the failing sites just sent no response, even though the connection wasn't refused < 1551906647 210054 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: have you managed to implement a check for characters that look identical, or even for ones that look too similar? < 1551907021 993353 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: not yet < 1551907108 915814 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I did manage to do it by simply dumping the characters and running sort over them < 1551907122 6890 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but an actual C++ olution would be better < 1551907148 922762 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: you can sort in C++ too, the library has a sort function < 1551907195 7873 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1158 < 1551907195 762316 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1158: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas < 1551907217 634858 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1551907667 338850 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1551908778 697372 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :intaanet-tobu shingusu! < 1551910802 273264 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551911453 237769 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1551912153 573584 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Maybe packets were just being dropped hard en-route? < 1551912165 824169 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :And TCP had to keep retrying? < 1551912173 864552 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: yes, it's consistent with the packets being hard-dropped < 1551912184 865383 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, would TCP report "connection established" before a single inbound packet was received? < 1551912196 756685 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Next time it happens, try pinging some IP and seeing how long the responses take, and how many get dropped < 1551912221 80506 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :A connection definitely requires a bit of back and forth to be established < 1551912230 629819 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's possible the first few packets were always getting through for some reason > 1551912989 721355 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60309&oldid=60287 5* 03Cortex 5* (+763) 10 > 1551913050 317587 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60310&oldid=60290 5* 03Cortex 5* (+63) 10 < 1551913585 142301 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://twitter.com/sokane1/status/1103421841505505280 < 1551913600 630701 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trump called him "Tim Apple" < 1551913621 895021 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tim Apple, and his friends Satya Microsoft and Sundar Google < 1551913666 875735 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: hellorin < 1551913681 549938 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you considered putting all your c++ files into one compilation unit to make the build faster hth < 1551913692 513648 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :itim translation unit < 1551913810 690996 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: we can't even fit the list of c++ files into a single command line < 1551913840 88423 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't thing even a tenth of it would fit in memory at once < 1551913881 120074 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo make your builds fast < 1551913885 620231 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you'll be less miserable < 1551914007 91876 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have all your developers sync to last green of a CI build, then you can cache compilation artifacts. < 1551914050 25451 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :continuous integration is the worst name < 1551914064 232942 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :integration already sounds like the math < 1551914077 266925 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the word "continuous" seems to settle the matter unambiguously < 1551914084 901452 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd PRIVMSG #esoteric :d e v o p s < 1551914912 537253 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: lol compilation artefacts < 1551914930 606910 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: this thing compiles the same files multiple times for some reason < 1551914968 228293 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin's build system is just a disaster, is the background behind all this < 1551914985 561509 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and orin inc. would rather have builds take 12 hours than fix it < 1551915051 451822 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand, "orin inc." sounds pretty snappy. Financial, maybe. < 1551915177 719313 :LKoen_!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a000cc9db60f4eacd0a.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1551915426 764714 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lwoceckcuzvlakmb JOIN :#esoteric < 1551916316 9850 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.200.33 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1551916384 571007 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551917753 536226 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yesterday orin mentioned that he tried to do a git rebase, but git hung in some infinite loop or took too long. we don't know what he did wrong. < 1551917786 670068 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :using a version system where rebases are sometimes required :-P < 1551917875 876937 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: cherry-picks for rebases are useful IMO in a distributed version control system, because they allow me to use the vcs myself in any way I want in a private branch, and later clean up and publish it the way the leader of the project wants < 1551917897 896209 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I can't do that, I have to end up using two repositories of potentially two different vcses in some ugly way < 1551917924 767421 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in Thicket (the VCS I'm planning, it's a more-practical version of Scapegoat), eveything is automatically rebased as far back in history as possible < 1551917927 537568 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't do actual rebases, because changing branches that way is confusing to me, I simply create a branch with a new name < 1551917938 940323 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so rebasing isn't a meaningful operation, as it would be a no-op < 1551917971 806708 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: um, but sometimes there are conflicts resolved manually < 1551917985 91226 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can want to rebase a branch mostly automatically, but resolve some conflicts < 1551917997 190093 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether it's conflicts the vcs can detect or semantic ones that it can't detect < 1551918016 972418 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can add conflict resolutions manually if required < 1551918031 609749 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, if you rebase everything as far as possible, it will mostly be semantic conflicts < 1551918049 611369 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good VCS would be able to detect semantic conflicts too, I think < 1551918062 580862 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really understand how "rebase as far as possible" means though < 1551918102 834878 :moony__!~moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well if it's moved as far back as possible < 1551918119 122831 :moony__!~moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens if the rebase gets moved so far back the text merges fine, but it doesnt compile < 1551918124 901246 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: so in Git, normally each commit is the parent of the one before < 1551918142 991446 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not normally what you actually want, because it adds a lot of false dependencies < 1551918156 493816 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ideally a VCS should parent each commit to the most recent commit that's actually needed for the new commit to work < 1551918164 230157 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1551918175 393592 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the each commit is the parent of the one before" -- isn't that time travel? < 1551918209 851261 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, each's commits parent is the one before < 1551918220 432136 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although Git totally allows commits to be parented out of order) < 1551918240 727191 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I know. it keeps the date when you cherry-pick a commit < 1551918263 179554 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that you can't tell when anything was committed < 1551918265 911562 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1551918276 369243 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like having commits have a parent as late as possible < 1551918285 885163 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then you have intermediate versions that are known to work and tested < 1551918291 11422 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, as much as you actually test them at least < 1551918303 118081 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you rebase stuff back, it gets impossible to get known working states, or even suspected working states < 1551918303 256721 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: see, I think git's big mistake here is confusing a patch/diff, and a snapshot/version < 1551918304 717786 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551918308 113952 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the two concepts should be separate < 1551918319 159540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can record the known working states, but you should do so separately, rather than tying them to individual diffs < 1551918401 131885 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but I like how the snapshot is the important concept, and I record snapshots primarily, as I do in svn < 1551918428 101472 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like that because it makes it impossible to take parts of a repository out of order < 1551918446 55763 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you cherry-pick from a repo, you can't subsequently merge that repo, without git attempting to apply some of the changes twice < 1551918448 500447 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the diffs between a snapshot and its parents come in only in order to not apply any diff twice when you merge two branches that share some diffs < 1551918465 91819 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(git has a workaround for this, detecting duplicated patches and not applying them, but it's not a general-purpose one) < 1551918466 890144 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't in git, but you can in svn < 1551918483 936628 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because svn (starting from 1.7 or something) records which diffs have been merged on each file < 1551918487 325055 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1551918488 885838 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1551918496 490045 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: that's the correct way to do it < 1551918503 88745 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1551918510 451994 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in that respects, diffs are needed < 1551918551 747216 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they can be cherry-picked backwards or forwards, and if used correctly (which is sometimes hard), the individual diffs will keep their identity < 1551918590 57017 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly this is what's hard to make work in the hypothetical extension I've been thinking, where I try to make a distributed vcs layer over svn < 1551918615 79777 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then you can have the same diff from a private branch come into the public repo as two separate identities < 1551918687 666801 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :even without a distributed vcs, the svn system isn't perfect, it probably can be improved < 1551918715 289973 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, maybe it should be improved in a direction where the diffs are more important < 1551918722 795104 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which might be what hg is trying to do, I don't really understand < 1551918744 87339 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hg is crazy because it apparently tries to have multiple paradigms, and it's not even clear to me if that's only for historical reasons < 1551919454 140648 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder who'll become the new high priest of The Dark One when Redcloak is killed in the seventh book of OOTS. < 1551919646 203159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jirix, perhaps? but I doubt Redcloak will die permanently, given that the plot seems to require a 17th-level cleric of the Dark One alive < 1551919651 705007 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's possible that he dies and gets resurrected < 1551920277 123142 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1551920580 603 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551920977 708329 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Jirix is way over in Gobbotopia, though I guess Xykon can teleport and is interested in having a high priest of TDO < 1551921074 799702 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I guess you're right, they'll have to actually cast a 9th level spell, so it's not so easy to just get a replacement < 1551921291 771428 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure there's a deadline on that. as long as they can even get TDO to talk to the other gods, and the new goblin leader not want to use the Dark One's original plan, the gods could wait < 1551921342 971687 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1551921778 176749 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Outlandish GG theory: this is Violetta <-- that is indeed pretty outlandish < 1551921886 783492 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-121.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1551921987 641169 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think nominating your own language to be featured is rather poor form <-- i'm not sure A is Helen. maybe ais523 could check? (or already did.) < 1551922038 937698 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pretty much assumes he'll regret not finishing the logs first < 1551922214 537495 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : and it's my fault <-- on the bright side, sounds like you could make a nerdy children's song out of it < 1551922276 944166 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( nerdery rhyme? ) < 1551922351 424658 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently someon made a book of those < 1551922353 894351 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+e < 1551922478 958821 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : heh, oerjan was right in 2012 <-- unlike these days, i mean, about what? < 1551922500 990275 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(GG? in which case i may have forgotten exactly what i said.) < 1551923382 135973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I don't think A is Helen, but if you think checking is a good idea, I'll check < 1551923394 981953 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I? < 1551923454 141477 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wait, how do we know that Redcloak will die? < 1551923454 526813 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, I'd be reluctant to feature any language with an attempted TCness proof by A unless someone else had first corrected all the mistakes in it :-D < 1551923483 663330 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: we don't, b_jonas seems to think he will for some reason, I don't think there's much evidence for that though < 1551923757 871040 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was wondering if b_jonas was spoilering < 1551923793 889624 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :he does seem to have a habit of presenting theories of what will happen in fiction as fact < 1551923820 28221 :adu_!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551923841 71509 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok if you don't think so. i didn't have a strong impression. < 1551923869 136917 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :all agree on the TC proof, although i may be too lazy to do anything like that < 1551923879 950290 :LKoen_!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a000cc9db60f4eacd0a.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1551923942 836433 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i'd have to like read it...) < 1551923974 94553 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i want redcloak to have a happy ending :( < 1551924015 823265 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose that's not entirely in conflict with dying in that universe < 1551924090 160060 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to read it, and came out with no more understanding than when I'd started < 1551924103 974416 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not surprised < 1551924196 68249 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the way the proof starts by saying the language probably isn't TC < 1551924222 908773 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe it isn't meant to be a TC proof? I think an earlier revision said it was but A may have changed eir mind? < 1551924253 914915 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This picture is TG: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/465999263059673088/553008336220717066/cmj2.jpg < 1551924343 862386 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, this language looks fairly easy to write a TCness proof or disproof for < 1551924375 142588 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I was browsing a maths journal at the university library's "new issues" desk once, and it had an indecipherable diagram right after the ToC, with the caption: "Fig. 1: A fascinating picture." < 1551924401 749762 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good thing this diagram makes perfect sense. < 1551924423 844009 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAICT, every instruction it has can be implemented in 1-bit-wrapping BF, and all the instructions of 1-bit-wrapping BF exist in it, except that a) it has instructions to zero everything to the right of the tape and b) the only conditional checks whether everything to the left of the tape is 0 < 1551924442 900496 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that probably means the language is a PDA, unless there's some way to sneak data storage into it that I've missed < 1551924449 763971 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure the fascinating picture made sense as well, it just needed a little more context than that one. < 1551924609 412746 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, hmm, you can do things like left-shift the accumulator by its own bitwise complement, which might give a method of storage < 1551924633 900899 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the interpreter only has 32 bits of accumulator and 32 bits of storage, which is obviously sub-TC, but I'm guessing that's just an interpreter issue < 1551924667 688289 :adu_!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: adu_ < 1551924700 145857 :Blacksilver!~Blacksilv@198-91-139-26.cpe.distributel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551924733 119709 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, 64, not 32 < 1551924735 874050 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :still < 1551924750 932670 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1551924758 193815 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1551931326 236463 :Blacksilver!~Blacksilv@198-91-139-26.cpe.distributel.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1551931535 693779 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lwoceckcuzvlakmb QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1551931620 788289 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1551932458 153742 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551932792 68679 :bobby!~Bob@76.202.115.164 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1551932792 613768 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca QUIT :*.net *.split < 1551932792 906787 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera QUIT :*.net *.split < 1551933002 13906 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1551933095 286021 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c83-254-216-72.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1551933095 369140 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c83-254-216-72.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Changing host < 1551933095 369198 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1551934417 334676 :bobby!~Bob@76.202.115.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551934417 334731 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1551934417 417005 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera JOIN :#esoteric < 1551937273 78825 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://imgur.com/qUxvk2I < 1551937297 430339 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stellaris just... naturally seems to cause stupid borders now < 1551937472 627298 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think i'm finally getting the hang of the new new stellaris > 1551940573 580821 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Helen14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60311&oldid=60301 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+38) 10unsigned < 1551943825 551838 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551944017 995490 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1551946130 275008 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.200.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551949838 138458 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah, I assumed because A's been editing the page for Bitch a lot < 1551949956 803011 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1551950284 548290 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't they the same person? < 1551950850 562229 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: 2012: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Malbolge#Referenced_in_popular_culture < 1551950855 447839 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Helen seems more competent to me < 1551950937 278108 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: you mean someone admitted to copying it from wikipedia? < 1551950949 61537 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I picked up a DVD box a couple of days ago... it looks to me like some poor soul was tasked with manually copying the hello world program (no longer on the english wikipedia page either; it's been replaced there by a shorter one...) on a typewriter. First change is replacing a ~ by a -; later on there are more typos, and it got cut off at the end. < 1551950982 492599 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1551950983 241990 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: No, but it's clearly the same program that was on wikipedia at the time, modulo typos and cutoff. Just as you wrote. < 1551951046 900427 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... why was there a malboge program in Elementary < 1551951094 568072 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Holmes of course recognizes the programming language and then sends it off to an expert who can actually read it. They come back with some formula ("algorithm"). < 1551951139 295277 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1551951269 267472 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1551951744 544119 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was secretly hoping it was about Girl Genius and that he'd somehow predicted what's currently happening :P < 1551953453 255528 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you may have but I'm usually not remembering much of what happened 6-7 years ago :) < 1551953520 535992 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey i didn't i knew _what_ i had predicted :P < 1551953527 210514 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :something with dimensions, i presume < 1551953532 939855 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*didn't say < 1551953613 212658 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: you say that now, but when i read "oerjan was right in 2012" it sounded like you expected me to :) < 1551953620 515180 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure... this is looking increasingly like time travel may actually be going to have happened real soon now, meantime, years ago. < 1551953642 982368 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yeah it was cruel bait. I admit it. I'm a bad person. < 1551953670 61759 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats int-e -----### < 1551953750 11221 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't really know when we "heard" all those stories about sightings of what's likely Lucrecia traveling through time.) < 1551953786 818447 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :albia said when she met lucrezia way back, her mind was shattered. i wonder if she had too much contact with these madness-inducing dimensions < 1551953803 449445 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But we finally meet somebody who's actually confused about time, so that's progress. What's up with Prede[sp?]'s Lantern though? < 1551953820 220370 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right the lantern < 1551953827 609302 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*prende < 1551953835 585239 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1551953887 962106 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :confused and confusing < 1551953957 341489 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :time travel and foreign languages will do that to you < 1551954031 147084 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :("time travel" may not be happening; the idea of beings that span a large interval of time *and* space isn't exactly new) < 1551954138 578912 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i probably should start approaching bed -> < 1551954147 222537 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1551954164 651112 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i use 2/pi * atan(x) as my activator function? < 1551954167 973891 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm. xkcd makes me confused about left and right... are we staring at a mirror? are we looking at the person from behind? is it a mirror image of a photograph taken from the front? < 1551954177 663647 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: I'm not going to stop you < 1551954187 367228 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but is that a reasonable choice? < 1551954208 227293 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I think we're looking at the person from the front? < 1551954220 389976 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The blue rectangle is their right. < 1551954257 818647 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: oh, I think I misattributed an arrow tip. :) < 1551954273 231142 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: Wikipedia suggests that atan on its own works < 1551954293 567282 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Puzzle: Why do mirrors flip things left-right and not up-down? < 1551954303 897365 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yeah I love that one < 1551954308 90990 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, i just wanted to scale it between -1 and 1 < 1551954355 214422 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a website to determine if my unicode implementation supports X and Y features? e.g. the new heiroglyphics features < 1551954383 155882 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: thinking about it, how about using ceiling mirrors as a hint? :P < 1551954389 567514 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hard mode puzzle: How do i free the creatures from inside the mirror realm? < 1551954409 774862 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds like a silly puzzle at first -- the obvious answer is that mirrors flip front-back -- but it took me surprisingly long to come up with an answer I was happy with. < 1551954458 71704 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I agree, that's the easy bit. You need psychology for explaining the idea that mirrors swap left and right. < 1551954482 548506 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or some silly geometry (orientation...) < 1551954578 988333 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's the visualization I was happy with: < 1551954622 648917 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gnxr n genafcnerag cvrpr bs tynff naq jevgr fbzr grkg ba vg. Abj ubyq vg va sebag bs n zveebe. Obgu gur tynff grkg naq gur zveebe grkg ner ernqnoyr naq hasyvccrq. Abj cnvag bar fvqr bs gur tynff bcndhr -- lbh pna'g frr vg va gur zveebe nalzber. Gb frr vg va gur zveebe, lbh arrq gb ebgngr vg 180°, naq lbh pna pubbfr jurgure gb ebgngr vg yrsg-evtug be hc-qbja. < 1551954653 28003 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If you haven't seen this puzzle before you should think about it first! It's TG.) < 1551955043 170856 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer the explanation that jura lbh frr lbhefrys va gur zveebe, naq lbh envfr lbhe yrsg unaq, gur zveebe vzntr envfrf gurve evtug unaq. Ol pubbfvat n crefba sbe ersrerapr, fjnccvat hc naq qbja orpbzrf n evqvphybhf bcgvba; fjnccvat yrsg naq evtug (ol n 180 qrterr ebgngvba-ersyrpgvbaf ner uneq gb cresbez ba culfvpny bowrpgf) vf gur angheny pubvpr jura gelvat gb gnxr gur zveebe vzntr'f cynpr. < 1551955901 834691 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, because you have horizontal symmetry. < 1551956526 71624 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-flhvqtgwskyqzvcs JOIN :#esoteric > 1551958024 63843 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Helen14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60312&oldid=60311 5* 03A 5* (-164) 10No reply! Revert edit. > 1551958097 345373 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60313&oldid=60302 5* 03A 5* (-612) 10Non-implemented algorithms will be useless. < 1551959667 412440 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1551961185 398828 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551961652 226136 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1551961819 336621 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551962751 727305 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551962796 431843 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's possible that he won't die. I'm only sure that Xykon has to be destroyed; whether Redcloak dies is still open. < 1551962928 126161 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's still worth to know who's next in succession, because Durkon has a mission that requires a high-level priest of the Dark One with knowledge of the Snarl, which pretty much means only the high priest with the Mantle because otherwise it's kept a secret, < 1551962963 697752 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if the mission proves to be impossible with Redcloak, the order may be forced to kill or incapacitate Redcloak in hopes that the next high priest will be more reasonable. < 1551963016 950245 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, it's also quite possible that Redcloak will simply go down in the fight to protect Xykon and the plan, or die when he takes revenge on the Order for destroying Xykon. < 1551963105 145744 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1551963185 277216 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" it looks to me like some poor soul was tasked with manually copying the [Malbolge] hello world program" => < 1551963260 135763 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hungarian translations of the K&R book (ANSI edition) have lots of typos like that. they were published before the digital typesetting age, so it was typeset by a professional typesetter who was very diligent, but apparently doesn't know much about programming. < 1551963521 606537 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Puzzle: Why do mirrors flip things left-right and not up-down?" => I don't think they actually do that. The seem to flip things or not randomly in any direction. At least they always manage to confuse me whenever I try to do anything by observing my body through a mirror, \ < 1551963541 82882 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it often takes multiple failed tries to figure out what direction something is in reality even if I can see it in the mirror. < 1551963647 335029 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That mirrors flip only left and right seems like the conventional wisdom that people repeat because they read it in books, without actually paying attention and experimenting with an actual mirror. < 1551964900 641927 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551966944 327658 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551967228 268397 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1551968967 85954 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-flhvqtgwskyqzvcs QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1551970534 873911 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-066-199-031.088.066.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1551970560 108589 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-066-199-031.088.066.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1551970728 543875 :fmease!fmeasematr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-moeujmjkwbsmgvya JOIN :#esoteric < 1551970982 549385 :fmease!fmeasematr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-moeujmjkwbsmgvya PART #esoteric :"User left" < 1551971047 997691 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in M:tG, apparently there are over a dozen rares with an ability similar to "you may spend mana as though it were mana of any type cast that spell". Half of them say "any type" and half "any color", which was a nonexistant distinction until OGW. < 1551971167 346703 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the distinction is preserved from whatever was in fashion when the card was first printed, to keep the oracle text more guessable. That much makes sense. But then why didn't they make False Dawn work like its odd printed text with respect to devotion/chroma? < 1551971303 564720 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Dead Man's Chest < 1551971305 54931 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dead Man's Chest? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1551972756 362708 :MDead!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551972767 295354 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1551972773 658905 :MDead!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1551973167 220913 :MDead!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551973265 793059 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1551973271 944418 :MDead!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1551973274 256138 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551973540 217003 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1551973557 383520 :MDead!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551973645 222436 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1551973652 429006 :MDead!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1551973788 119188 :orby_work!32e0e343@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.224.227.67 JOIN :#esoteric < 1551973793 27213 :orby_work!32e0e343@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.224.227.67 PRIVMSG #esoteric :greetings all < 1551973904 323071 :olsner!~salparot@c193-14-197-104.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1551973941 520880 :MDead!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551974044 509330 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1551974046 766003 :MDead!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1551974336 14549 :olsner!~salparot@c193-14-197-104.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1551974686 360444 :olsner!~salparot@c193-14-197-104.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1551977299 385324 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1551978728 678913 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551979314 330415 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00d0656d98eceb4767.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric > 1551981487 409371 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Zahlen14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60314&oldid=60306 5* 03Orby 5* (+2959) 10Introducing unary operators. > 1551981591 676537 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Zahlen14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60315&oldid=60314 5* 03Orby 5* (+16) 10/* Types */ fixing typo > 1551981692 904999 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Zahlen14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60316&oldid=60315 5* 03Orby 5* (+0) 10/* Factor */ < 1551982731 392996 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00d0656d98eceb4767.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1551983553 578872 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Pidot 5* 10New user account > 1551983784 625880 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60317&oldid=60280 5* 03Pidot 5* (+186) 10 < 1551984023 327170 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1551984023 409101 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1551984023 409147 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric > 1551984359 438403 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Zahlen14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60318&oldid=60316 5* 03Orby 5* (-96) 10/* Length */ < 1551984467 162249 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf : hm, what was similar to the mode thing i was talking about ? something about linear something ? < 1551984520 487287 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, which linear Prolog thing ? Lolli ? Lygon ? Forum ? something else ? < 1551985134 338711 :LKoen!~LKoen@lfbn-idf2-1-273-77.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1551985303 806033 :LKoen!~LKoen@lfbn-idf2-1-273-77.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1551985310 23398 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: I don't remember, what was the context? < 1551985311 632198 :LKoen!~LKoen@lfbn-idf2-1-273-77.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric > 1551985324 908473 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Zahlen14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60319&oldid=60318 5* 03Orby 5* (+1034) 10Adding miscellaneous operators > 1551985562 531240 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Zahlen14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60320&oldid=60319 5* 03Orby 5* (-80) 10/* Concatenate */ < 1551985579 448011 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-71.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1551986160 476125 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno. you mentioned it a little over a month ago (on this channel) < 1551986319 770700 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(" ski: Seems similar to the mode thing you were talking about the other day, though I think that's not linear.", then after two days " ski: What do you think of this linear Prolog thing?") < 1551986353 350079 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1551987415 956923 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: Right, I think it's something weaker than preadditive. < 1551987434 551347 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is ? < 1551987476 703810 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever this category is, if there is one. < 1551987508 462363 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like how Rel is a free module over a boolean semiring, or something like that. > 1551987783 263917 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Zahlen14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60321&oldid=60320 5* 03Orby 5* (+290) 10Cleaning up. > 1551987818 375688 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Zahlen14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60322&oldid=60321 5* 03Orby 5* (-76) 10/* Concatenate */ < 1551988440 799173 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it unprofessional to call my new git branch "oren-hates-git" < 1551988452 541651 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oauynggpihbiwvci JOIN :#esoteric < 1551988474 418931 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing it anyway, I have good reason to < 1551988513 63987 :LKoen!~LKoen@lfbn-idf2-1-273-77.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1551988655 427625 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to use more advanced TTF features but there is scant documentation for the ttf hinting language < 1551988891 93923 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-71.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: no, it's not unprofessional, as long as it's in a private repository, and you don't publish it under that name < 1551988955 437583 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a feature branch to replace the one that isn't working < 1551989007 751747 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oauynggpihbiwvci NICK :siddharth < 1551989017 176155 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my pervious feature branch can't be rebased without hanging forever < 1551989028 339974 :siddharth!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oauynggpihbiwvci NICK :S_Gautam < 1551989269 61927 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what language is git written in anyway? < 1551989296 51766 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-71.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly C < 1551989327 163265 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-71.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :with some light unixisms > 1551989429 120193 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Fmease 5* 10New user account < 1551989526 172028 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm wondering if my old feature branch was so borked it caused git to go into an infinite loop < 1551989553 157315 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I left it chugging for 24 hours before I decided it was doomed < 1551989772 906224 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-71.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? fish < 1551989774 781620 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come and dance and love the fish! Mister Disco summoned it. > 1551990445 938050 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60323&oldid=60317 5* 03Fmease 5* (+289) 10/* Introductions */ > 1551990525 798372 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60324&oldid=60323 5* 03Fmease 5* (-82) 10Fix my signature > 1551991722 501001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60325&oldid=60251 5* 03Cortex 5* (+103) 10/* Cat */ > 1551991953 772360 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60326&oldid=60309 5* 03Cortex 5* (+60) 10 > 1551992207 846397 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60327&oldid=60326 5* 03Cortex 5* (+76) 10 < 1551995426 153372 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1551996501 303558 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1551997703 264135 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.200.33 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1551998033 261514 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oauynggpihbiwvci QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1551998537 874774 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1551998820 163187 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-71.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ _1*180%8 < 1551998820 840302 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: _22.5 < 1551998859 111348 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ommnygklgrjuvgvr JOIN :#esoteric < 1552001787 294353 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1552002605 814546 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1552002915 432985 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Heiroglyphics are an ancient set of symbols used for writing last wills and testaments. < 1552002917 954969 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'heiroglyphic': Heiroglyphics are an ancient set of symbols used for writing last wills and testaments. < 1552002970 107009 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :took me a while to figure that one out < 1552002979 853718 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MWAHAHAHA* < 1552002997 619123 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was expecting it to be a spoken pun rather than a written pun < 1552003002 951710 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite being written rather than spoken < 1552003012 21495 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w < 1552003014 552368 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:lie//Lies are even easier than monoids. They form groups, known as Lie groups. \ fternoon//Fternoon is the time of day when the Danes usually eat their fternooners. \ `5//`5 is equivalent to repeating `` 5 times, then splitting the output into irc-sized pieces. defaults to "quote". See `1, `4 and `spam. Confusingly _not_ the obvious generalization of `2. \ `learn//`learn creates a wisdom entry and tries to guess which word is < 1552003017 89179 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1552003017 774134 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:the key. Syntax (case insensitive): `learn [a|an|the] [s][punctuation] [...] \ `hoat//`hoat: See `hoag < 1552003036 880463 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? `spam < 1552003037 987407 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`spam prints the nth output piece of the previous `1, `2, `4, `5, sport or spore command. n defaults to the next piece to display. Abbreviation: `n. < 1552003043 322163 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? `n < 1552003044 653313 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`n is an abbreviation for `spam. < 1552003048 554555 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? `4 < 1552003049 795427 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`4 is equivalent to `5 , except that it only repeats 4 times. Useful when you've already run a command forgetting to use `5. < 1552003055 477243 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? `1 < 1552003056 658266 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`1 is equivalent to `` , except that it splits the output into irc-sized pieces. The next pieces can be viewed with `spam. See also `2. Confusingly the obvious generalization of `4. < 1552003065 992790 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? `2 < 1552003067 125846 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`2 is equivalent to `1 , except that it starts displaying the _second_ output piece. Useful when you've already run a command forgetting to use `1. < 1552003072 179579 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? `3 < 1552003073 309403 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`3 is the obvious generalization of `2 or `4, trying too hard to confuse everyone. < 1552003234 976549 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1552004130 585894 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-71.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? lie group < 1552004131 789275 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :lie group? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1552004193 908534 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-71.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? gianni schicchi < 1552004194 997511 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :gianni schicchi? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1552004200 579552 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-71.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Gianni Schicchi < 1552004201 701140 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gianni Schicchi? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1552004248 480263 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-71.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1552004887 308804 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1552005002 176129 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1552005158 286639 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le/rn lie group//Lie groups are groups that try being too smooth for their own good. < 1552005160 341775 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'lie group': Lie groups are groups that try being too smooth for their own good. < 1552005191 43763 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :smooth operator < 1552009324 856649 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a way to link to a webpage while also injecting a custom stylesheet < 1552009333 324494 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of these ham websites are painfully bad < 1552009340 269008 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh, they don't tend to contain 800 MB of JavaScript < 1552009540 938692 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you can at least run a javascript: url after loading it < 1552010226 909019 :theology!~theology@unaffiliated/theology JOIN :#esoteric < 1552010238 383982 :theology!~theology@unaffiliated/theology PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat. < 1552010239 661818 :theology!~theology@unaffiliated/theology PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1552010299 238614 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1552013780 74137 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1552013893 429665 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin : "oren-hates-git" -- perhaps you should be friends with JordiGH (works on Octave, iirc. is often in #emacs, and at least sometimes in ##math) < 1552013949 464257 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, would `Rel' rather be the categories of modules (or "modules" ?) over the boolean semi-ring ? < 1552013968 866108 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or maybe all of them are free ?) < 1552014029 904001 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has pondered covariant vs. contravariant powerset functor a bit, doesn't seem to really get it yet, though < 1552014063 693189 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The covariant one is weird. < 1552014136 204102 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaiu, it's about to ⌜{f(x) | x ∈ S}⌝, iow (direct / existential) image > 1552014455 774099 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60328&oldid=60325 5* 03Ais523 5* (-103) 10Undo revision 60325 by [[Special:Contributions/Cortex|Cortex]] ([[User talk:Cortex|talk]]): we probably don't need an alternative program that's slightly broken; if it's the length you care about, ",[.>,]" is the same length and actually works < 1552014720 914400 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the covariant is ⌜℘⌝, and the contravariant is ⌜(Ω ←)⌝, then "Sets for Mathematics" (Lawvere,Rosebrugh) talks some about a weird ⌜(Ω ←)² ⟵ ℘⌝, that they write with an integral sign. uncurrying, we get ⌜Ω A ⟵ ℘ A × (Ω ← A)⌝ which expresses whether there's any overlap between a "covariant subset" and a "contravariant subset" < 1552014991 486136 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in ⌜Rel⌝, ⌜Ω ⟵ A⌝ would correspond to ⌜ɪ ⟵ A⌝, where ⌜ɪ⌝ is the neutral element for the tensor, namely the singleton set. then ⌜Ω ← A⌝ is the object that corresponds to "names" of relations in ⌜ɪ ⟵ A⌝, while ⌜℘ A⌝ is the object that corresponds to "names" of relations in ⌜A ⟵ ɪ⌝, and then this "overlaps?" operation ist just composition in ⌜Rel⌝ (and converting back to an element of ⌜Ω⌝)) < 1552015019 836909 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, this operation is a normal natural transformation, nothing weird there < 1552015077 711464 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(er .. sorry, i said we get ⌜Ω A ⟵ ℘ A × (Ω ← A)⌝, but obviously i meant we get ⌜Ω ⟵ ℘ A × (Ω ← A)⌝ ..) < 1552015127 384511 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh (as i mentioned briefly in #haskell), there is a conversion ⌜(Ω ← A) ⟵ ℘ A⌝, which is a *dinatural* transformation, because it's of "mixed type" < 1552015147 644205 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(dinatural in ⌜A⌝, obv. ..) < 1552015198 181671 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we uncurry this, we get ⌜Ω ⟵ A × ℘ A⌝, which is just our only friend, the membership predicate ⌜∈⌝ < 1552015396 529558 :fractal!~fractal@unaffiliated/scounder QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1552015396 529608 :ATMunn_!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1552015405 276915 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn JOIN :#esoteric < 1552015516 884038 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :while, the other direction ⌜℘ A ⟵ (Ω ← A)⌝ ought to correspond to the general (set) comprehension (sans (direct) image notation, as above), so just ⌜{x : A | χ x = ⊤}⌝, or ⌜{x : A | χ x}⌝ for short (where ⌜χ x⌝ is typically thought of some expression ⌜⋯x⋯⌝ (possibly) depending on ⌜x⌝. cf. this comprehension with plain ⌜λ x ↦ ⋯x⋯⌝) < 1552015706 707192 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh .. and i really wonder why ends and coends are written using integral notation. maybe cooends could be thought of as "sums" if you squint, but ends !?) < 1552015781 472405 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, is there a notion of taking the exponential of the integral of the log of an integral, getting some kind of "continuous product", if integral is to be "continuous sum" ? .. and would this be related to logarithmic differentiation ?) < 1552015795 663099 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(er, of the log of an integrand) < 1552015949 371040 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the book seemed to suggest that the integral notation for the "overlaps" functor would be somehow related to "ordinary" integrals, with a bounded ("bornological") integration domain (subset), and the integrand being otoh continuous) < 1552015993 912264 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(apparently "open subsets" is contravariant (not much surprise), while "bounded subsets" is covariant) < 1552016178 850543 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, another perhaps related thing. an element of a free module (or vector space) can be written as a "formal" (finite / with finite support) sum over scalar coefficients scaling the basis elements (the elements of the starting set we're "freeing") < 1552016246 31598 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or, if we're proving that a given module / vector space has a basis, we'd pick a family of elements of the space, and index the coefficients with the same index set) < 1552016526 241740 :fractal!~fractal@unaffiliated/scounder JOIN :#esoteric < 1552016724 735380 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, at least for finite-dimensional, you can apparently think of this as a sum (/ "existential" / coend) over the tensor of two functors from ⌜FinSet⌝ to the ring (considered as an abelian(?) category), respectively to ⌜Set⌝, the former *covariant* (using the sums in the ring to model nondeterminism with direct / existential images), .. < 1552016738 701617 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. while the latter (familiarly) would be contravariant (as per inverse image, which is precomposition on the classifying morphism), no nondeterminism of ⌜Ω⌝ needed here < 1552016897 960940 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. also the monoid ring construction is also *covariant* in the monoid (also using ring nondeterminism. convolution on the monoid elements, which works because everything is finite support) < 1552016936 358683 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, should be commutative monoids < 1552016987 84762 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :this construction yields the familiar polynomial rings, if you take the monoid to be the free monoid (over the set of indeterminates, then) < 1552017010 916322 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so convolution gives the usual rule for polynomial multiplication) < 1552017155 524061 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. however, i was wondering about "formal power series", where you scrap the finite support in the sums. if you want to generalize that to a not necessarily free monoid, it seems that, for it to be well-defined, the (still commutative) monoid needs to have the property that every element can be decomposed into "two parts" in finitely many ways < 1552017289 480700 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(perhaps the monoid ring works out with a non-commutative monoid (and non-commutative ring) as well, as long as when you interpret it, with "evaluation" (application / substitution), the ring among where you select values for the indeterminates commutes with the coefficient ring ..) < 1552017548 382883 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(.. in general, when you interpret a polynomial, you don't need to pick the indeterminate values from the coefficient ring. you could pick them from a super ring (e.g. a (say commutative) subring of square matrices / linear endotransformations. we can embed the scalars as scalings of the identity. or you don't even need the translation to be an inclusion (injective). but probably more theorems fail then) < 1552018008 288825 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so, a polynomial ring over a coordinate ring ⌜R⌝ is the free "ring under ⌜R⌝" (living in the coslice category wrt ⌜R⌝ / the category of rings under ⌜R⌝, being those with a designated extra structure for interpreting the elements of ⌜R⌝ in each ring in the category. (you can always do this for ⌜ℤ⌝, so "free ring over a set" is just polynomial ring with integer coefficients)) < 1552018200 811171 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hm, there's probably some relation of ⌜ℤ⌝ to neutral element of tensor here ..) < 1552018237 383323 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(recall that an abelian group is a module over ⌜ℤ⌝) < 1552018674 137356 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(.. i wonder whether the monoid ring construction can be thought of as a free construction .. or at least as an adjoint. i've also pondered, a little, more explicit constructions of polynomial rings. one is the CPS-like encoding ⌜R ← (R ← X)⌝, where ⌜X⌝ is the set of indeterminates. so, given a valuation (value environment) giving values for all indeterminates, we get a corresponding value for the polynomial ..)) < 1552018963 159576 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(.. but this presumably needs to be restricted in some way (possibly restricting one or both arrows to functions that respect some structure), otherwise we could express non-polynomials in this way) < 1552019129 592039 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(anyway, we should have ⌜∀ S. S ← (S ← X)⌝ rather, where ⌜S⌝ is an arbitrary ring "under" ⌜R⌝, so that we can interpret the coefficients in ⌜R⌝ in this ring (often a superring) ⌜S⌝. now pure CPS shows even more :) < 1552019396 95116 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(still, there's another representation, ⌜R ← (ℕ ← X)⌝, where both arrows should be restricted to finite support (think `Map'), which makes them *covariant* in the domain, afaiui. each value in ⌜ℕ ← X⌝ (the free commutative monoid over ⌜X⌝, recall ⌜ℕ⌝ is free (commutative) monoid over singleton) would be a combination of exponents, for each indeterminate (but with finite support, so only finitely many with non-zero exponent)) < 1552019671 509338 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(then, the other arrow having finite support means that we only consider assigning to *finitely* many such "monomials", a coefficient in ⌜R⌝. and if we wanted to, we could "expand" this as before, into ⌜∀ S | S ⟵ R. S ← (ℕ ← X)⌝, but that's actually the same thing as plain ⌜R ← (ℕ ← X)⌝, since ⌜R⌝ only occurs covariantly (both sides of the arrows should be positive/covariant, in this case, because of finite support)) < 1552019779 392413 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably i should use another notation for the finite support arrow. i've seen "raised to an exponent enclosed in round brackets", i think. also cf. arrays in e.g. array-oriented languages) < 1552019812 142590 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that notation also being used for monoid ring, at least in one book) < 1552019895 808867 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :so .. hm, i would like to better understand these two constructions, and their (hopeful) equivalence, perhaps under some extra conditions (?) < 1552020023 574425 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the situation with generalization to formal power series (but for a not-necessarily-free (commutative) monoid of "monomials", that nevertheless has this "finite convolute/splitting" property, that ##math didn't know a name for, when i asked < 1552020105 380552 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, this became a loosely tangled "rant" (rather "reflection", perhaps), on some things related to co- and contra- variance, that i've been pondering lately < 1552021001 502605 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1552021010 96420 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1552021131 395977 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1552022192 496913 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1552022356 567368 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric < 1552029232 177524 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess sam really is immune to the sauce, then. < 1552029786 310120 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ommnygklgrjuvgvr QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1552032952 75352 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1552033086 268730 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1552033305 699828 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is surprised that this girl genius creature can be surprised < 1552033529 612363 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is there no biderectional bit shift operator < 1552033609 526867 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (4 `shift` 1, 4 `shift` (-1)) < 1552033611 486321 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : (8,2) < 1552033623 27464 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :SURE THERE IS < 1552033630 567737 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit verbose, maybe. < 1552033930 116923 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I contend that fscanf should have a variant which is guaranteed to read exactly one line < 1552034164 813445 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ginormous line coming up... < 1552034650 317720 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be fine as long as after it reads enough it skips past the next \n < 1552034708 454111 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean with normal fscanf you can put all the inputs on ones line < 1552034832 301701 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas fortran READ statement reads exactly one card < 1552034835 618500 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, line < 1552034883 609032 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :another example of fortran being less error-prone than C < 1552036946 703097 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1552042000 771775 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1552045198 84077 :mich181189!sid268336@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-monnnqnvvfiaqltz QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1552045294 212960 :mich181189!sid268336@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dchpbxiiauajhgba JOIN :#esoteric < 1552045920 959184 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.200.30 JOIN :#esoteric < 1552048146 259173 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1552048244 627666 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1552049236 288704 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1552052558 953955 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1552052584 375328 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. I didn't know there were more than 2**17 different unicode characters. < 1552053362 238915 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And apparently the majority of those are hanzi/kanji. < 1552053478 545640 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eypryqxlixhmygnp JOIN :#esoteric < 1552053836 193843 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : expected ‘const struct bdfglyph * const* const’ but argument is of type ‘struct bdfglyph **’ < 1552053842 153792 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that incompatible?! < 1552053875 948944 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :C const as implemented by gcc makes no sense < 1552053931 147098 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: those are incompatib le < 1552053949 345640 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1552053951 155554 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not they aren't < 1552053962 934362 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the expected one is const * const * < 1552053964 594930 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1552054001 248826 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the function is pormising not to modify literally anything, but GCC doesn't seem to pick up on that < 1552054004 822147 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: is this in C or in C++? < 1552054008 617561 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :C < 1552054161 73844 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean it's only a warning but its a STUPID warning < 1552054217 398417 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was forbidden to cast a T** to a T const** but allowed to cast it to a T const* const* < 1552054249 350670 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't seem to be allowed < 1552054313 20312 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could ask on ##C < 1552054657 49963 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main(int argc, char **argv){const char *const *const constargv = argv;return 0;} < 1552054669 788660 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :imcompatible < 1552054748 365257 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :tcc also warns about it < 1552054772 958473 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I would expect gcc to be less lazy when deciding what's incompatible < 1552055678 291095 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1552055995 609014 :fmease!fmeasematr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-moeujmjkwbsmgvya JOIN :#esoteric < 1552056554 254002 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1552061259 742253 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eypryqxlixhmygnp QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1552061847 228302 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pfdpozcgzdzakphq JOIN :#esoteric < 1552065595 19237 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a lot of const < 1552065662 650620 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cdecl doesn't like const struct bdfglyph * const* const < 1552065919 772855 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1552066111 950740 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1552067434 778584 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1552067438 413954 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, I'm getting a cubicle with a window on the 20th floor < 1552067495 960404 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: what about if you give it a name < 1552067499 673689 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: const struct bdfglyph * const* const x; < 1552068853 770605 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric > 1552069807 20379 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Fmease14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60329 5* 03Fmease 5* (+114) 10Create page < 1552071120 851964 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-169.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1552072026 611010 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: whoa, was all that for me? < 1552072354 927723 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1552072355 29778 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1552072355 29824 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1552072468 43026 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: It's fine in C++ but not in C, as I guess you've discovered. < 1552072769 386171 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The C++ rules around const are much more nuanced. In C it's just the one level of const-ness you can add to a pointer, and the types "below" that must be already compatible. < 1552072851 985272 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The conversion via a cast might be legal in C too, but I've got enough of a headache to not puzzle that out now. < 1552073220 454503 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-169.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ah, so that's why I thought < 1552073231 74761 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-169.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more familiar with the C++ rules than the C ones < 1552075106 115357 :orby!44215da7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.167 JOIN :#esoteric < 1552075112 870845 :orby!44215da7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.167 PRIVMSG #esoteric :greetings < 1552075234 650801 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-169.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1552075635 256218 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1552076639 59899 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1552077665 444156 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf : i dunno. if you're interested in that kind of stuff < 1552077813 596653 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:5c54:3931:a544:cab5 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1552078604 242221 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:e8e9:8944:fba8:39a3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1552082721 314013 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1552084754 537622 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: I am, I just didn't see it < 1552084764 417701 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And still haven't read it, but I'll look when I'm at my computer < 1552087783 225333 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1552087811 312307 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1552088753 284691 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1552088760 716263 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1552088791 917114 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.200.30 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1552089087 488198 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1552089237 766127 :moony__!~moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghidra has an impressively smart decompiler < 1552089297 489354 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though "Game of XYZABCDE - Part II" (xyzabcde2 for short) is not yet completed (it will take a while; one thing that has to be done is to figure out what rooms to put), the source code of so far can be downloaded (it is in the public domain and will remain so even once it is completed). < 1552089396 260049 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:e8e9:8944:fba8:39a3 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1552089396 487029 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since while outside it will be possible to fly above many locations, to avoid having to add flying rooms explicitly for each such room (in some cases it is necessary, but sometimes it won't be), there is a prototype Y.SkyRoom to use the default flying above, and a special room R.FlyingAboveRoom for this purpose. < 1552090106 515113 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1552090255 276186 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1552090447 406412 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1552090534 858004 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1552091259 828050 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pfdpozcgzdzakphq QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1552091348 424693 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1552091437 964529 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1552091491 298594 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1552091955 247315 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:c4b3:df17:f65b:3fa3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1552092198 273751 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c83-253-65-195.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1552092198 357138 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c83-253-65-195.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Changing host < 1552092198 357196 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1552092240 891579 :olsner!~salparot@c193-14-197-104.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1552093303 933221 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1552093571 389461 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1552094652 256310 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1552094890 745553 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1552095607 352809 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1552095770 150806 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1552095913 357040 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :IDGI: everywhere they say that the old FreeType autohinter is not needed at all any more, with the TrueType hinting patent issues resolved, but I get just terrible-looking text (at least in urxvt, for both DejaVu Sans Mono and Inconsolata) unless I specifically ~/.config/fontconfig/fonts.conf true. < 1552096062 138673 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1552096103 670898 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also use bitmap fonts of the correct size to avoid bad hinting, I suppose (since then, hinting is unnecessary). But, is there a possibility to edit TrueType fonts to change the hinting for each one if needed? < 1552096272 483231 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I suppose, but these are well-regarded fonts that should have "better-than-autohinter" hinting information already included. Either that's not the case, or there's something wrong in my setup that the font driver isn't using that. < 1552096393 715730 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, OK, well then if the included hinting doesn't work then set the old autohint mode I suppose is good. Does it have the ability to set it conditionally based on the font size? < 1552096489 407242 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's possible to condition on size. And the autohint=true is acceptable, I'm just confused because in a lot of places over the internet people keep saying "you should set autohint=false, it's worse". < 1552096504 616106 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1552096605 810940 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to implement the FreeType autohint code in the TrueType VM code? < 1552096725 881730 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That, I don't know. But FreeType have published a piece of software (ttfautohint) to essentially run the FreeType autohint on a font, manually fine-tune some aspects, and write that into the TTF hinting information. < 1552096746 26136 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For printer fints, I think METAFONT works well and it is possible to do hinting.) < 1552097336 726137 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1552097717 555609 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1552099365 611557 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1552099607 328649 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1552100055 285811 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c83-253-68-170.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1552100055 368967 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c83-253-68-170.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Changing host < 1552100055 369024 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1552101685 303880 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1552102284 242010 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1552102552 217943 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1552102970 645025 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1552104077 123929 :orby!44215da7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.167 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1552104862 120732 :orby!44215da7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.167 JOIN :#esoteric < 1552105171 297794 :moony__!~moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1552105196 71959 :moony__!~moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric > 1552107083 567814 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Post Dominos14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60330 5* 03Orby 5* (+1625) 10Introducing Post Dominos < 1552108428 966263 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1552108544 662720 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone wanna help me write a low-level language like webassembly but called something else, and write patches for chrome and firefox and convince game developers to use it? < 1552108650 804190 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not so sure about patches for Chrome and Firefox, but perhaps a standalone program can be written to execute the codes < 1552108763 276730 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1552108783 275179 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu, what's the improvement over webassembly? < 1552108797 975972 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :getting developers to switch is a really hard thing to do < 1552108887 99521 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is the other question; what differences from WebAssembly are they? < 1552109027 294980 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1552109153 407040 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1552109721 697790 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be the MMIX instructions set < 1552109731 349734 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the improvement would be more lulz < 1552109985 459405 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that knuth's version is kind of ancient and the gnu version is hard to use < 1552111498 969211 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1552111667 280484 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1552112535 760735 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :MMIX is OK, I think < 1552112546 914455 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And, there is the implementation, too) < 1552112936 392299 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1552113341 744641 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote the change file called "extext.ch" which can be used to support other system calls than the built-in ones. < 1552113969 117921 :Abcdef!05452f18@gateway/web/freenode/ip.5.69.47.24 JOIN :#esoteric < 1552114003 616160 :Abcdef!05452f18@gateway/web/freenode/ip.5.69.47.24 QUIT :Client Quit < 1552114014 652566 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZZT allows duplicate labels, and has #ZAP and #RESTORE commands, which cause all jumps to one label with that name to jump to another label with the same name instead. < 1552114029 117455 :Cs_Acat!05452f18@gateway/web/freenode/ip.5.69.47.24 JOIN :#esoteric < 1552114070 493368 :Cs_Acat!05452f18@gateway/web/freenode/ip.5.69.47.24 QUIT :Client Quit < 1552114450 341742 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving. > 1552114546 457079 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03CrazySqueak 5* 10New user account > 1552114958 444357 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60331&oldid=60324 5* 03CrazySqueak 5* (+220) 10/* Introductions */ < 1552115246 262575 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1552115502 71442 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds > 1552115733 601881 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Binary lambda calculus14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60332&oldid=51637 5* 03Zzo38 5* (+312) 10 > 1552118429 741069 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Post Dominos14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60333&oldid=60330 5* 03Oerjan 5* (-3) 10/* See also */ Use proper name of /// < 1552118666 395278 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1552119123 726070 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Headshot!14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60334 5* 03CrazySqueak 5* (+5946) 10Entry for a language I'm developing. < 1552119327 83037 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds > 1552119342 813946 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60335&oldid=60282 5* 03CrazySqueak 5* (+16) 10Added Headshot! (a language I'm developing) to the list. > 1552119383 956591 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Headshot!14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60336&oldid=60334 5* 03CrazySqueak 5* (-5) 10 > 1552120148 787830 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hellborne14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60337&oldid=46957 5* 03CrazySqueak 5* (+1) 10Fixed a spelling mistake ("Fliping" -> "Flipping") < 1552120315 495666 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that completely flipes the meaning... < 1552126357 118363 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1552127085 142215 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1552127490 668630 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1552127919 225143 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1552128411 630946 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1552129270 254563 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-167.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1552133549 774070 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1552133781 153015 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1552134573 337401 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1552134653 389749 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1552134719 510288 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life > 1552135504 272677 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Post Dominos14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60338&oldid=60333 5* 03Orby 5* (+9) 10Adjusting notation to match interpreter < 1552135895 270036 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.237.233 JOIN :#esoteric > 1552136903 198792 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Post Dominos14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60339&oldid=60338 5* 03Orby 5* (+2) 10Fixing typo < 1552137567 79961 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric > 1552138477 987758 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:CrazySqueak14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60340 5* 03CrazySqueak 5* (+149) 10Created. > 1552142063 470990 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Post Dominos14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60341&oldid=60339 5* 03Orby 5* (+356) 10 > 1552143125 984843 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Headshot!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60342&oldid=60336 5* 03CrazySqueak 5* (+932) 10Headshot! now has conditionals and iteration through the 'label', 'goto', and 'cgoto' commands. Also added truth machine example. < 1552143149 270443 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ligeqjiwkyhjgpwk JOIN :#esoteric > 1552143416 874824 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60343&oldid=60303 5* 03A 5* (-29) 10 > 1552143549 987558 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60344&oldid=60343 5* 03A 5* (+32) 10 > 1552143563 39157 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60345&oldid=60344 5* 03A 5* (-2) 10 > 1552144476 452888 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bucket14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60346 5* 03A 5* (+383) 10Created page with "[[Bucket]] is a series of programming languages involving 3 basic operations. A derivative can be described using the tuple (a,b), where a<=b. What you can do is: * Empty the..." > 1552144748 519973 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bucket14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60347&oldid=60346 5* 03A 5* (+688) 10 < 1552145186 372740 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1552147222 286361 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.30.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1552147378 277244 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.237.233 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1552148010 297854 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1552149971 266347 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1552150525 260140 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1552150525 341189 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1552150525 341258 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1552150564 118379 :CrazySqueak!05452f18@gateway/web/freenode/ip.5.69.47.24 JOIN :#esoteric < 1552150647 755914 :CrazySqueak!05452f18@gateway/web/freenode/ip.5.69.47.24 QUIT :Client Quit > 1552151547 637552 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TOD14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60348&oldid=53949 5* 03Null 5* (+86) 10 < 1552153899 235781 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.30.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru NICK :arseniiv > 1552154348 325060 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Post Dominos14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60349&oldid=60341 5* 03Orby 5* (-132) 10/* Canonical programs */ Updating with interpreter behvaior < 1552154431 122001 :orby!44215da7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.93.167 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1552155572 298288 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1552155778 219340 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1552158668 272426 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1552160395 280964 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60350&oldid=60327 5* 03Cortex 5* (+130) 10 < 1552162117 119856 :orby!44215932@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.89.50 JOIN :#esoteric > 1552162133 681358 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Interfrac14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60351 5* 03Orby 5* (+1275) 10Created page with "Interfrac is a declarative esolang. It was discovered by [[User:Orby]] in 1994. ==Introduction== In 1994, at the tender age of ten, I made a startling discovery about fractio..." > 1552162172 747662 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Orby14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60352&oldid=60308 5* 03Orby 5* (+73) 10 < 1552162273 273816 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric > 1552162476 352682 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Interfrac14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60353&oldid=60351 5* 03Orby 5* (+60) 10/* See also */ < 1552163057 759833 :moony__!~moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1552163122 904718 :moony__!~moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric < 1552163747 127953 :orby!44215932@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.89.50 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds > 1552163759 712454 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Interfrac14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60354&oldid=60353 5* 03Orby 5* (+315) 10/* Examples */ Adding more examples < 1552163793 119266 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1552164494 780604 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1552164992 6748 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric > 1552165241 565700 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Interfrac14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60355 5* 03Ais523 5* (+456) 10this might be more interesting than it looks? > 1552165483 308684 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Interfrac14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60356&oldid=60355 5* 03Orby 5* (+254) 10 > 1552165741 876339 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Interfrac14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60357&oldid=60354 5* 03Ais523 5* (+638) 10implementation (other than parsing/syntax) < 1552166484 242742 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1552168484 820653 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1552168550 860935 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interfrac is really interesting < 1552168561 488852 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm leaning towards it being sub-TC, but it's hard to prove that < 1552168662 702613 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you restrict the number of times each fraction is used to being a power of n for some n, you can solve it in an amount of space that depends only on the program (not the size of the input), which proves that that variation of the language is sub-TC, but there's no obvious reason this would generalize to the language without that restriction < 1552169025 181891 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey ais523! Yeah, I've been struggling with the TC question too. If it is TC, I think mapping it to the PCP might be the most straight forward way of proving it. < 1552169069 479483 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I was thinking along the power-of-n lines < 1552169087 10890 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh, I see where you're coming from. that's interesting < 1552169102 628295 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think it works, because the left and right strings of a Post domino can have an arbitrary shift between them, whereas in Interfrac the shift would have to be the same for the two < 1552169122 595929 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more like But Is It Art? than the PCP, but it can't implement that for the same reason (the power-of-n thing) < 1552169170 632612 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me catch up on BIIA. I've looked at it before, but not in a long time. < 1552169213 710836 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been thinking about implementing some sort of cracked out push down automaton for the purposes of proving things sub TC < 1552169259 516493 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea being that you compile the sub-TC languages into it? < 1552169318 534532 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, exactly < 1552169346 894649 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you implement an interpreter in the push down automaton for a language with a questionable computational class < 1552169347 998828 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/BuzzFizz was created for a very similar purpose, but I'm not sure it's a perfect fit for this < 1552169405 650846 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice, good idea :) < 1552169409 879664 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I certainly can't see a way to implement Interfrac in it < 1552169439 653585 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, no neither do I < 1552169558 964415 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe oerjan will have an idea if he comes along < 1552169693 646318 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interfrac reduces to integer linear programming, I'd think. (The + is addition of 2D vectors of integers.) < 1552169764 251128 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that it's decidadble whether, in Interfrac, there's /some/ input that will work < 1552169815 144612 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take the -2/5, 1/-7, 1/-3, 1/-2 program; introduce a variable for how often each vector is added: a,b,c,d; then n is accapted if -2a+b+c+d = n and 5a-7b-3c-2d = n, where a,b,c,d >= 0 and a+b+c+d > 1. < 1552169862 588244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have two fractions a/b, c/d with a>b and cb and c1 or every fraction is <1 and thus it's obvious that the two sides can't balance < 1552169924 673403 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, the introduction of the input makes things much more complex < 1552169927 427002 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think there's enough theory to compute the set of all n that have solutions as well; it should be ultimately periodic, but hmm... details. < 1552169975 344807 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: as far as I can tell from the Wikipedia article, ILP has an unknown computational class < 1552169979 704494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although it's known to be NP-hard) < 1552170021 934318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are special cases with known computational classes, though, and Interfrac may be one of them < 1552170035 63548 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't that make an interfrac program equivalent to a system of linear diophantine equations? < 1552170051 606538 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the decision problem (does a set of constraints have a solution) is NP-complete. < 1552170057 424267 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a given n < 1552170065 247180 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :orby: I think so, yes < 1552170072 579621 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: computing an optimal solution just isn't a decision problem. < 1552170111 11202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: the decision problem variant of that is "does a set of constraints have a solution with a <= k" for given k, likewise for the other variables < 1552170120 705048 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can find the optimal solution via binary search < 1552170193 267984 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not clear to be that the existance of some n for which the system has a solution is decidable, is that clear to either of you? < 1552170217 869510 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :orby: yes < 1552170240 262389 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then it's definitely sub tc because we're solving the halting problem, right? < 1552170256 770129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here is the decision algorithm: if there is a fraction with numerator ≥ denominator, and a fraction with denominator ≥ numerator, there is some input that is a solution, otherwise there is not < 1552170257 29320 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm pretty sure there's an upper bound ... looking for a reference < 1552170269 792943 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/however/, my proof doesn't work for a given input < 1552170303 823257 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for a given input, it's just a system of linear diophantine equations, which are well understood? < 1552170360 849190 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even without a given input, it's a system of linear diophantine equations < 1552170367 625001 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but without a given input, you have one equation rather than two < 1552170378 549447 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diophantine_equation#System_of_linear_Diophantine_equations < 1552170380 104839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, although it trivially collapses to one equation in either case < 1552170380 144346 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right? < 1552170403 290107 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so we have a decision algorithm for that too < 1552170411 64562 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes, decidable language, thus sub-TC < 1552170415 893807 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I think sub tc < 1552170423 107677 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the correct computational class is now almost certainly NP-complete < 1552170444 480561 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, np-complete for the subset sum problem you brought up on the talk page < 1552170477 583629 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's NP-complete for given input, you can solve it in linear time and constant space if you just want to know whether some input matches < 1552170517 133880 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right right < 1552170605 357854 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, this is interesting, now we have a known computational class but it's not any of the wiki's computational class categoriees < 1552170761 435717 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha, I broke the wiki < 1552170915 4263 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which wiki? < 1552171003 449032 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't break any wiki, I'm just kidding < 1552171072 589487 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. Sorry, I just notice that sort of thing since it usually means I need to fix something. < 1552171084 919030 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry to startle you! < 1552171153 504961 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I should update MediaWiki sometime soon anyway, though, it's been a long while. < 1552171170 171892 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Updates are good for the soul. < 1552171202 247967 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hrm I'm drawing a blank for now. In any case decidability of ILP is all we need here anyway. < 1552171250 148088 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to show that this is sub-TC) < 1552171263 100211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1552171267 567491 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1552171307 813194 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we can use things like the omega test < 1552171777 705930 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah. http://lara.epfl.ch/w/_media/papadimitriou81complexityintegerprogramming.pdf < 1552171882 983553 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ^^ found something < 1552172001 439543 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's awesome < 1552172255 470370 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun fun < 1552172487 371610 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1552173176 316074 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1552173472 546219 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1552173525 926315 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Zesterer 5* 10New user account < 1552173547 70638 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric > 1552173711 899382 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60358&oldid=60331 5* 03Zesterer 5* (+204) 10Added personal introduction > 1552173762 146113 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60359&oldid=60335 5* 03Zesterer 5* (+16) 10Added Stackfuck > 1552174914 192774 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Orby14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60360&oldid=60352 5* 03Orby 5* (+80) 10 < 1552175267 271043 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.30.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1552175726 742720 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hanoifuck14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60361 5* 03Zesterer 5* (+2105) 10Created page > 1552175873 515482 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hanoifuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60362&oldid=60361 5* 03Zesterer 5* (+312) 10 > 1552175926 59715 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hanoifuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60363&oldid=60362 5* 03Zesterer 5* (+24) 10 < 1552176560 79857 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1552176799 757487 :GeekDude!~G33kDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude NICK :tibdit < 1552177067 430766 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1552177790 217244 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1552177853 410687 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1552177932 727034 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1552179215 462575 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1552180413 654563 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: c strings are kind of scow, don't you think < 1552180554 85908 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1552180652 330494 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :very < 1552180655 683587 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also hi shachaf < 1552180722 68320 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :higan mchelloister < 1552180768 842380 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1552180978 150872 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well yeah < 1552181009 187486 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I forget how fortran handles strings < 1552181027 740354 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: but i vaguly recall them being better < 1552181069 617353 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does fortran even have strings? < 1552181167 289372 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1552181184 727629 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1552181263 490416 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :From what I recall, it's usually fixed-maximum-length things. < 1552181263 702271 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they are bounds checked > 1552181268 821696 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Interfrac14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60364&oldid=60356 5* 03Ais523 5* (+677) 10mention our computational class conclusions < 1552181310 970712 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm wondering if COBOL has strings < 1552181320 54498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it does for things like employee names < 1552181345 48703 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :COBOL is basically SQL except it's trying to be a complete programming language and isn't as declarative < 1552181462 204087 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pascal strings are the famous kind, with a prefix byte for length. < 1552181506 339634 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think later that's called a ShortString. < 1552181549 363941 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ideal prefix size is a 24 bit integer < 1552181570 92524 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad modern processors don't have support for those < 1552181609 527104 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the correct alignment for one of those, anyway? first byte falls on a 32-byte boundary? < 1552181638 62260 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, 24 bits = 3 bytes < 1552181638 675869 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, it's one of the best arguments for little-endian storage that I've heard (as that would then let you do all computations on 24-bit integers, other than writing them to memory, using 32-bit primitives) < 1552181657 107464 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :allegedly some C compilers use the name "short long int" for a 24-bit integer < 1552181678 93758 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i mean on a 6502, you do any length integer by using ADC < 1552181687 918580 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :6502 is an 8-bit processor < 1552181691 58337 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 has adc too, I think < 1552181702 525363 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, who would know. < 1552181704 951600 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's rarely used because normally your integers aren't large enough to need to split them up over separate instructions < 1552181708 849972 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas PRIVMSG #esoteric :The manual is fcking huge < 1552181725 104803 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas PRIVMSG #esoteric :RISC ftw < 1552181763 942995 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if x86 has adc then that is the best way to do bigint < 1552181779 648286 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :C strings are used even in stuff other than C < 1552181784 387049 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, recently came across a blog post that had some microbenchmarks suggesting on recent x86-64 processors (let's say anything Sandy Bridge onwards), unaligned memory access no longer has a performance penalty. < 1552181817 178928 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least for sequential access. < 1552181828 625237 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does x86-64 have fast endianness conversion? (What I know is that MMIX does, but I don't know if x86 does.) < 1552181842 942544 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For random access, presumably it still makes it more likely to straddle two cache lines.) < 1552181848 993024 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I also don't know if RISC-V has) < 1552181861 434480 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow x86-64 DOES havs an adc instruction < 1552181870 214231 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I guess that's technically "infinitely more likely", since aligned access never will.) < 1552181873 964201 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it has an adc. < 1552181879 444084 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ADC r64, r/m64 < 1552181883 952326 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo '__int128_t f(__int128_t a, __int128_t b) { return a+b; }' | gcc -S -o /dev/stdout -x c /dev/stdin | fgrep -v '.' < 1552181887 539614 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :f: \ pushq %rbp \ movq %rsp, %rbp \ pushq %rbx \ movq %rdi, %rax \ movq %rsi, %r8 \ movq %rax, %rsi \ movq %rdx, %rdi \ movq %r8, %rdi \ movq %rsi, -32(%rbp) \ movq %rdi, -24(%rbp) \ movq %rdx, -48(%rbp) \ movq %rcx, -40(%rbp) \ movq -32(%rbp), %rcx \ movq -24(%rbp), %rbx \ movq -48(%rbp), %rax \ movq -40(%rbp), %rdx \ addq %rcx, %rax \ adcq %rbx, %rdx \ popq %rbx \ popq %rbp \ ret < 1552181912 201635 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nicet < 1552181914 35484 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :compilers even generate it < 1552181922 423677 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although all the spilling going on there is /really/ suspicious) < 1552181925 550486 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come on, stick some optimization flags in there. < 1552181928 31622 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I forgot to use optimization flags < 1552181942 490381 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo '__int128_t f(__int128_t a, __int128_t b) { return a+b; }' | gcc -S -O3 -o /dev/stdout -x c /dev/stdin | fgrep -v '.' < 1552181943 860754 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :f: \ movq %rdi, %r9 \ movq %rsi, %r10 \ addq %rdx, %r9 \ adcq %rcx, %r10 \ movq %r9, %rax \ movq %r10, %rdx \ ret < 1552181947 100334 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's better < 1552181967 391768 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be even better if this IRC client formatted it without inverse-I tabs. < 1552181990 655365 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo '__int128_t f(__int128_t a, __int128_t b) { return a+b; }' | gcc -S -O3 -o /dev/stdout -x c /dev/stdin | fgrep -v '.' | perl -pe 's/\s+/ /g' < 1552181991 634236 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :f: movq %rdi, %r9 movq %rsi, %r10 addq %rdx, %r9 adcq %rcx, %r10 movq %r9, %rax movq %r10, %rdx ret < 1552182006 15920 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely it's possible in five? < 1552182020 723204 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, no, I see < 1552182039 80665 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :%rdx is the LSD of the input, but the MSD of the output < 1552182046 176482 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you do need six instructions < 1552182066 927806 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably gcc is using %r9 and %r10 as temporaries because they're caller-saved < 1552182134 774918 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, GCC accepts - for /dev/std{in,out}. < 1552182151 606309 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, clang can do it in four < 1552182158 316200 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by overwriting the input arguments, I should have thought of that < 1552182189 857823 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo '__int128_t f(__int128_t a, __int128_t b) { return a+b; }' | clang -S -O3 -o /dev/stdout -x c /dev/stdin | fgrep -v '.' < 1552182190 605876 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/`: line 5: clang: command not found < 1552182202 527652 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't installed it there. < 1552182214 647545 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/` < 1552182215 313405 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/bash \ cmd="${1-quote}" \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ eval -- "$cmd" | rnooodl < 1552182219 94805 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Clang is okay with dashes as well.) < 1552182222 919779 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/`` < 1552182223 569146 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ export LANG=C; exec bash -O extglob -c "$@" | rnooodl < 1552182244 745555 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are nicely divergent. < 1552182252 769946 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does rnooodl do, anyway < 1552182269 536414 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo "noodl" < 1552182270 379936 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :noodl < 1552182272 171373 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo "noodl" < 1552182272 961107 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :noodl < 1552182276 381561 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo "nooooodl" < 1552182277 60968 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooooodl < 1552182279 176873 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Randomizes the number of "o"s in that nick, I think? < 1552182281 824529 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something silly like that. < 1552182283 713214 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo "nooo0oodl" < 1552182284 523658 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooo0oodl < 1552182291 978023 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo "nooodl" < 1552182292 732900 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooooooooodl < 1552182295 822865 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo "nooodl" < 1552182296 500574 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooooooodl < 1552182300 402985 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1552182337 904001 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the fundamental difference is that ``` uses a subshell, `` uses an eval < 1552182359 245703 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure offhand why this difference would matter, though < 1552182370 529303 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: There is a few other difference too, such as ``` specifying the C locale, and `` specifying a different timer format < 1552182379 404580 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but those aren't fundamental < 1552182390 835195 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo $LANG < 1552182391 516832 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :en_NZ.UTF-8 < 1552182400 96326 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I put in ``` (without rnooodl) in order that it would set the C locale.) < 1552182402 877722 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1552182407 567420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1552182435 12961 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :en_NZ.UTF-8 is an oddly specific choice. < 1552182446 399703 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was there to serve as a talking point? < 1552182448 969840 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :As with everything on that bot, it's a kind of joke. < 1552182462 649434 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've propagated it forward from Gregor. < 1552182465 614307 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay granted, it _is_ HackEgo. < 1552182477 635501 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many strings even differ in en_NZ? < 1552182498 233041 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the vast majority of packages that even bother to give different spellings for English variants tend to concentrate on en_US and en_GB < 1552182506 581891 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` time < 1552182507 319744 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :real: 0m0.001s, user: 0m0.000s, sys: 0m0.000s < 1552182513 841535 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` date < 1552182514 540274 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sun Mar 10 01:48:34 UTC 2019 < 1552182521 515145 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` time sleep 1 < 1552182523 369869 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ \ real 0m1.027s \ user 0m0.000s \ sys 0m0.020s < 1552182544 666863 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` time sleep 10 < 1552182567 349115 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd expect 99% of the time it's just falling back to C. < 1552182580 949600 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it'll fall back within the en family < 1552182587 87027 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :LANG=C has some very distinctive messages < 1552182590 71501 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the TIMEFORMAT is there to avoid hard tabs in the output. < 1552182599 278815 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls /nonexistent < 1552182600 289527 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: cannot access '/nonexistent': No such file or directory < 1552182604 515203 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` ls /nonexistent < 1552182609 191773 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: cannot access '/nonexistent': No such file or directory < 1552182614 380666 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :real: 1m8.856s, user: 0m0.000s, sys: 0m0.020s < 1552182630 21443 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, is glibc doing silly things with its C locale messages? < 1552182630 331052 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's an odd result from sleep 10. < 1552182632 985753 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, LANG=C has become more verbose since last time I looked < 1552182635 855371 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: indeed < 1552182646 844130 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :would't it be better to just have an filter that tgranslates all tabs to something < 1552182661 901936 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could translate them to → < 1552182663 229584 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no particular reason to have its strings distinct from en_US -- the specific contents of the strings in the C locale aren't specified. < 1552182684 981671 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :␉ < 1552182722 783228 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the unicode control char symbols are < 1552182723 648850 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The number formatting is specified, some details of its charset are specified, etc. but the strings are not. < 1552182727 100210 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :␀␁␂␃␄␅␆␇␈␉␊␋␌␍␎␏ < 1552182727 874730 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :␐␑␒␓␔␕␖␗␘␙␚␛␜␝␞␟ < 1552182745 920098 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could have a filter that does all of them < 1552182752 30271 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, it'd be valid (if silly) for the errno strings to just be the errno macro. < 1552182766 865176 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm well aware of the Unicode control char symbols, I've written enough programs with nonprintables in on PPCG < 1552182780 531314 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But using en_US is probably the saner choice. < 1552182794 358192 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ideally they should be specified, the main purpose of the C locale should be to be machine-readable < 1552182805 744640 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as humans will prefer a different locale for human-readable messages, but machines like consistency) < 1552182819 868106 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe, but POSIX underspecifies a lot of things. < 1552182845 97255 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even "error 2" would be more useful than just stealing a message from English < 1552182891 321101 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1552182907 906408 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like how cal(1) has to handle the switch from Julian to Gregorian happening in 1752, but doesn't bother even saying _what the output should look like_. < 1552182916 994748 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tab sybol on keyboards is ↹ < 1552182938 296970 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :vertical tab is ⭿ < 1552182946 549144 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ais523: Pidgin has en_NZ specific messages on my system, though looks like the only thing in there is "Authorize" → "Authorise". < 1552182956 716746 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Where did that # come from?) < 1552182968 358316 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :#hashtag #ais523 < 1552182998 347730 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Shit, POSIX doesn't even make real requirements about what error messages should be output by utilities at all. < 1552183050 38223 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not think ls is actually required to output a message when it errors out. < 1552183077 284289 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait: "If the file specified is not found, a diagnostic message shall be output on standard error." < 1552183081 960872 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does have to output an error. < 1552183097 929184 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Past that though, nah. < 1552183169 806890 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's also en_NZ/LC_MESSAGES/avahi.mo, where the changes are "Initializing..." → "Initialising..." and "Canceled." → "Cancelled." < 1552183192 190054 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` perl -pe 'tr/\0-\037/␀␁␂␃␄␅␆␇␈␉␊␋␌␍␎␏␐␑␒␓␔␕␖␗␘␙␚␛␜␝␞␟/' <$'\n\t\b\r\e' < 1552183192 933209 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/`: line 5: \  < 1552183211 78563 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if NZ users actually set LANGUAGE=en_NZ:en_GB:en. < 1552183223 577548 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that even work? < 1552183237 575401 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` perl -pe 'tr/\0-\037/␀␁␂␃␄␅␆␇␈␉␊␋␌␍␎␏␐␑␒␓␔␕␖␗␘␙␚␛␜␝␞␟/' <<$'\n\t\b\r\e' < 1552183238 342189 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/`: line 5: warning: here-document at line 5 delimited by end-of-file (wanted ` \  < 1552183244 185903 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :For GNU gettext and LANGUAGE, I think it should. < 1552183244 353449 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yes, it does. < 1552183245 11017 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` perl -pe 'tr/\0-\037/␀␁␂␃␄␅␆␇␈␉␊␋␌␍␎␏␐␑␒␓␔␕␖␗␘␙␚␛␜␝␞␟/' <<<$'\n\t\b\r\e' < 1552183245 771755 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ₐ < 1552183251 304766 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :crap < 1552183259 404321 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only the LANG and LC_* environment variables that don't do that sort of thing. < 1552183259 526158 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :LANGUAGE is a GNU gettext thing, not a C locale thing. Okay. < 1552183279 978639 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if musl gettext handles that case < 1552183297 7328 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might be other tools than just gettext that also respect it. < 1552183300 243059 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :where did that a come from < 1552183394 517465 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` perl -mutf8 -pe 'tr/\0-\037/␀␁␂␃␄␅␆␇␈␉␊␋␌␍␎␏␐␑␒␓␔␕␖␗␘␙␚␛␜␝␞␟/' <<<$'\n\t\b\r\e' < 1552183395 340693 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ₐ < 1552183403 374260 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1552183428 900181 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` perl -Mutf8 -pe 'tr/\0-\037/␀␁␂␃␄␅␆␇␈␉␊␋␌␍␎␏␐␑␒␓␔␕␖␗␘␙␚␛␜␝␞␟/' <<<$'\n\t\b\r\e' < 1552183429 747818 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wide character in print at -e line 1, <> line 1. \ Wide character in print at -e line 1, <> line 2. \ ␊␉␈␍␛␊ < 1552183436 268468 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :great < 1552183627 46931 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're probably looking for the -C7 option. But it doesn't work with that either, for some reason. < 1552183648 788019 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` perl -CS -Mutf8 -pe 'tr/\0-\037/␀␁␂␃␄␅␆␇␈␉␊␋␌␍␎␏␐␑␒␓␔␕␖␗␘␙␚␛␜␝␞␟/' <<<$'\n\t\b\r\e' < 1552183648 928124 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: apparently "#ais523" pings me < 1552183649 569260 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​␊␉␈␍␛␊ < 1552183653 298534 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1552183665 902454 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that may be because I have my pings set up to ping me on "ais523" even when I'm using a different nick < 1552184173 751731 :Remavas-Hex!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1552184182 456585 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1552184188 632124 :Remavas-Hex!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas NICK :Remavas < 1552184368 645672 :Remavas-Hex!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1552184380 497491 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1552184384 554075 :Remavas-Hex!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas NICK :Remavas > 1552185537 149363 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bucket14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60365&oldid=60347 5* 03A 5* (+720) 10/* Implementation */ > 1552185627 732703 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bucket14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60366&oldid=60365 5* 03A 5* (+21) 10 < 1552185803 118389 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If making the compiler that can compile a C code into a Glulx code, there is a few thing being noted, including that Glk functions that require C strings as input, in Glulx are required to start with a type byte. However, as far as I can tell all of the Glk functions that can use a string can also use a address and length instead, so the calls could be converted. < 1552185817 705668 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only exception seems to be glk_fileref_create_by_name(). < 1552186333 450784 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ligeqjiwkyhjgpwk QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1552186372 648274 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bucket14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60367&oldid=60366 5* 03A 5* (+851) 10/* Examples in the "standard" derivative:(3,4) */ > 1552186415 504848 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bucket14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60368&oldid=60367 5* 03A 5* (-5) 10/* Hello World! program in Bucket in integers (derivative (1,119)) */ > 1552186490 705348 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60369&oldid=60087 5* 03A 5* (+834) 10/* BSoD */ > 1552186652 969442 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bucket14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60370&oldid=60368 5* 03A 5* (-19) 10/* Implementation */ > 1552186935 49554 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bucket14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60371&oldid=60370 5* 03A 5* (+173) 10/* Implementation */ > 1552186943 936213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bucket14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60372&oldid=60371 5* 03A 5* (-31) 10/* Implementation */ > 1552187530 50139 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60373&oldid=60350 5* 03A 5* (+439) 10I have more ideas based on dc. > 1552187818 292188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60374&oldid=60373 5* 03A 5* (+611) 10/* Commands */ > 1552187984 789486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60375&oldid=60374 5* 03A 5* (+148) 10/* Commands */ > 1552188150 785969 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60376&oldid=60375 5* 03A 5* (+218) 10/* Commands */ > 1552188222 698504 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60377&oldid=60376 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10Overlapping commands > 1552188254 852557 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60378&oldid=60377 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10/* Commands */ > 1552188347 726581 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60379&oldid=60378 5* 03A 5* (+88) 10/* Commands */ > 1552188465 447531 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60380&oldid=60379 5* 03A 5* (+106) 10/* Commands */ > 1552188529 87163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Toadskin14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60381&oldid=34112 5* 03Camto 5* (+194) 10TC with unbounded cells? > 1552188557 251632 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60382&oldid=60380 5* 03A 5* (+39) 10/* Commands */ > 1552188574 881277 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Camto14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60383&oldid=58316 5* 03Camto 5* (-50) 10 > 1552188620 262343 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Camto14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60384&oldid=60383 5* 03Camto 5* (+1) 10Heh > 1552188665 525531 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60385&oldid=60382 5* 03A 5* (+55) 10/* Commands */ > 1552188741 272347 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60386&oldid=60385 5* 03A 5* (+1538) 10/* Commands */ > 1552188793 571571 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60387&oldid=60386 5* 03A 5* (-1538) 10Messed up with the table > 1552188825 976696 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60388&oldid=60387 5* 03A 5* (-130) 10/* Commands */ > 1552188869 367483 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60389&oldid=60388 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10/* Commands */ > 1552189067 132588 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Toadskin14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60390&oldid=60381 5* 03Camto 5* (+159) 10Fix > 1552189175 803914 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60391&oldid=60389 5* 03A 5* (+454) 10/* Commands */ > 1552189238 883656 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[073 cell Brainfuck14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60392 5* 03Camto 5* (+60) 10Page redirect for TC proof of 3 unbounded cells in BF. > 1552189287 103822 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Toadskin14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60393&oldid=60390 5* 03Camto 5* (-99) 10Use redirect page > 1552189403 527502 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Toadskin14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60394&oldid=60393 5* 03Camto 5* (+88) 10Accidental deletion. > 1552189553 639316 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60395&oldid=60391 5* 03A 5* (+78) 10/* Commands */ > 1552189740 380954 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60396&oldid=60395 5* 03A 5* (+187) 10/* Commands */ < 1552189828 415090 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1552190519 996144 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60397&oldid=60396 5* 03A 5* (+363) 10/* Commands */ > 1552190522 848369 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Camto14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60398&oldid=60384 5* 03Camto 5* (+144) 10Add Underload. < 1552190687 477699 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If some titles use roman numbers, what sort keys will you use? It might sort in alphabetical order by itself, but once you reach nine or if you have fractions, then alphabetical order won't work. < 1552190749 919846 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A < 1552190750 333052 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A < 1552190750 913094 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A > 1552190808 666847 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bucket14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60399&oldid=60372 5* 03A 5* (+115) 10 > 1552190825 860700 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bucket14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60400&oldid=60399 5* 03A 5* (+3) 10/* Compugtational Class */ > 1552190834 278778 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bucket14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60401&oldid=60400 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10/* Computational Class */ < 1552190995 123526 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1552191335 221369 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: how do roman fractions work? < 1552191337 121549 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi shachaf < 1552191359 554020 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: A dot represents one twelvth and "S" represents one half. < 1552191368 202258 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Subtractive notation is not used with fractions.) < 1552191522 337052 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we are betting on user accounts by the same person, I'm voting A == Cortex, and A != areallycoolusername. Evidence in favour: "(for lack of a better term) Unicode/ASCII" text in ALLSCII and Hexomnia, by different users, and a general confusion of the standards by 'both' users. Also, I seem to occasionally get areallycoolusername's humour, but not the others, they feel different. < 1552191702 264491 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A's nomination of Bitch feels in good faith though, pretty confident they are very different users. I can't make sense of the TC proof, it shouldn't be to hard to prove either way. Unbounded value in the accumulator is almost like a tape, but the shifting complicates quite a bit. The original creator wrote "Probably not TC" I believe. > 1552191752 356973 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bucket14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60402&oldid=60401 5* 03A 5* (+85) 10/* Implementation */ > 1552191986 911461 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bucket14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60403&oldid=60402 5* 03A 5* (+82) 10 > 1552192060 614170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SWhoopieenddns14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60404 5* 03Camto 5* (+849) 10The spec so far. < 1552192128 242247 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1552192286 350683 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SWhoopieenddns14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60405&oldid=60404 5* 03Camto 5* (-2) 10 > 1552192380 409846 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60406&oldid=60397 5* 03A 5* (+316) 10/* Commands */ < 1552192381 218546 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds > 1552192526 722996 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60407&oldid=60406 5* 03A 5* (+53) 10/* Commands */ > 1552192617 865932 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60408&oldid=60407 5* 03A 5* (+203) 10/* Commands */ > 1552192841 994051 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60409&oldid=60408 5* 03A 5* (+231) 10/* Commands */ > 1552193171 168817 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60410&oldid=60409 5* 03A 5* (+70) 10/* Commands */ > 1552193549 277083 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60411&oldid=60410 5* 03A 5* (-33) 10/* Commands */ > 1552193603 937873 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60412&oldid=60411 5* 03A 5* (+45) 10/* Commands */ < 1552195607 821188 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1552198613 221086 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1552198645 973369 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Reverse-Polish-notation Calculator14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60413 5* 03A 5* (+724) 10Created page with "[[Reverse-Polish-notation Calculator]] is heavily influenced by the UNIX utility "Desktop Calculator". The only difference is that it adds input to make more programs possible..." > 1552198692 327162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Reverse-Polish-notation Calculator14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60414&oldid=60413 5* 03A 5* (+13671) 10 > 1552198777 823096 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Reverse-Polish-notation Calculator14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60415&oldid=60414 5* 03A 5* (+43) 10 < 1552198877 79539 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds > 1552198901 519421 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Reverse-Polish-notation Calculator14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60416&oldid=60415 5* 03A 5* (-1) 10/* Examples */ > 1552199008 279312 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Reverse-Polish-notation Calculator14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60417&oldid=60416 5* 03A 5* (+170) 10/* Examples */ > 1552200123 471320 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Reverse-Polish-notation Calculator14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60418&oldid=60417 5* 03A 5* (+34) 10/* Examples */ > 1552200135 604071 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Reverse-Polish-notation Calculator14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60419&oldid=60418 5* 03A 5* (-7) 10/* Examples */ > 1552200143 245585 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Reverse-Polish-notation Calculator14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60420&oldid=60419 5* 03A 5* (-1) 10/* Increment by 1 */ > 1552200603 4218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Reverse-Polish-notation Calculator14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60421&oldid=60420 5* 03A 5* (-80) 10 < 1552200691 118610 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :When will IBM release the PC BIOS as free software? The source code can already be found in a book, at least. < 1552201077 509523 :ProofTechnique!sid79547@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dxqcplpzzjcwvuxb QUIT :*.net *.split < 1552201077 782967 :sparr!~sparr@pdpc/supporter/active/sparr QUIT :*.net *.split < 1552201078 629148 :incomprehensibly!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tlraqikitpxsybbp QUIT :*.net *.split < 1552201078 668744 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknqqhhxzzlvqpqd QUIT :*.net *.split < 1552201566 160115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit > 1552202624 14629 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitwise Scanner14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60422 5* 03A 5* (+736) 10Created page with "[[Bitwise Scanner]] is a bitwise language created by [[User:A]]. It is based on scanning a bitwise array. =What happens when binary numbers are incremented=
 000->001 001..."
> 1552202658 902041 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitwise Scanner14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60423&oldid=60422 5* 03A 5* (-151) 10/* What happens when binary numbers are incremented */
> 1552202802 105501 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitwise Scanner14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60424&oldid=60423 5* 03A 5* (+93) 10
< 1552202928 445239 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-167.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Heck, it'd be valid (if silly) for the errno strings to just be the errno macro." => it wouldn't be silly. it would actually be useful. it's difficult to figure out what errno code localized strerror messages stand for.
< 1552202988 905002 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-167.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even for English messages it's not so obvious. I even have an old list http://math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/errno to be able to search the C locale messages from glibc
< 1552202993 308428 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-167.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It gets worse on windows.
> 1552203021 136343 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitwise Scanner14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60425&oldid=60424 5* 03A 5* (+394) 10/* What happens when binary numbers are incremented */
> 1552203144 103348 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitwise Scanner14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60426&oldid=60425 5* 03A 5* (+57) 10/* What happens when binary numbers are decremented */
< 1552203186 247796 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-167.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiple fallback locales in LANGUAGE => oh nice! I wanted something like that for TERM back a decade ago when older systems didn't have the rxvt-unicode terminfo installed, or only had it installed in my homedir so setuid programs couldn't use it.
> 1552203276 225655 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitwise Scanner14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60427&oldid=60426 5* 03A 5* (+59) 10/* What happens when binary numbers are decremented */
> 1552203342 70217 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitwise Scanner14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60428&oldid=60427 5* 03A 5* (+164) 10
> 1552203532 694369 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitwise Scanner14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60429&oldid=60428 5* 03A 5* (+233) 10
> 1552203559 457184 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitwise Scanner14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60430&oldid=60429 5* 03A 5* (-73) 10/* Computational Class */
> 1552203608 659700 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitwise Scanner14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60431&oldid=60430 5* 03A 5* (+58) 10/* Computational Class */
> 1552203701 645513 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitwise Scanner14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60432&oldid=60431 5* 03A 5* (-1) 10
> 1552203736 59702 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitwise Scanner14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60433&oldid=60432 5* 03A 5* (+41) 10
< 1552204078 241739 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
> 1552204835 680400 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitwise Scanner14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60434&oldid=60433 5* 03A 5* (-50) 10
< 1552205091 382360 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552205148 809979 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552205164 256256 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1552205288 24422 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitwise Scanner14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60435&oldid=60434 5* 03A 5* (+14) 10/* Commands */
< 1552205771 120634 :reconcyl!49fcd62f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.252.214.47 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552206255 288974 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.30.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552206423 594710 :reconcyl!49fcd62f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.252.214.47 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to read arbitrary character input in Fueue
< 1552206428 847337 :reconcyl!49fcd62f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.252.214.47 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let 'a' be a code snippet, 'b' be the result of that snippet after 1 iteration, 'c' be after 2 iterations, etc.
< 1552206432 558589 :reconcyl!49fcd62f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.252.214.47 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Similarly, if 'A' is a code snippet, then 'B' is the next iteration.
< 1552206436 571401 :reconcyl!49fcd62f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.252.214.47 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The basic idea is that the construct [[*A])[a!]])$ will read an input (say 5)
< 1552206442 389844 :reconcyl!49fcd62f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.252.214.47 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then evaluate to edcbaB, where the number of repetitions of 'a' is equal to the input
< 1552206447 199365 :reconcyl!49fcd62f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.252.214.47 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The question is, how do we pick values for 'A' and 'a' so that that we can turn `edcbaB` back into the input number?
< 1552206451 524089 :reconcyl!49fcd62f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.252.214.47 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the '*' isn't important, by the way; it can be replaced with any item because it gets deleted immediately)
< 1552206456 111221 :reconcyl!49fcd62f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.252.214.47 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only example given on the wiki page that uses input is the truth machine, but that only has to distinguish between 2 values
< 1552206498 159001 :reconcyl!49fcd62f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.252.214.47 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We want 'a' to be something that's relatively stable because we don't know how many times it's going to be evaluated
< 1552206820 120273 :reconcyl!49fcd62f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.252.214.47 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, no, the construct is [[*A])[a!])])$
< 1552206829 272702 :reconcyl!49fcd62f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.252.214.47 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an extra ')' in there
< 1552207335 140396 :orby!44215a2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.90.46 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1552210710 268329 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
> 1552210809 452968 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Phone call14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60436 5* 03A 5* (+155) 10Created page with "[[Phone call]] is a minimalist programming language that uses the character set possible to enter in a phone call. [[Category:Languages]] [[Category:2019]]"
> 1552210855 385228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03A 5*  10uploaded "[[02File:Phone dial.JPG10]]": This file is used as an example for a phone dial.
> 1552211044 397130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Phone call14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60438&oldid=60436 5* 03A 5* (+128) 10
> 1552211303 169703 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Phone call14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60439&oldid=60438 5* 03A 5* (+195) 10
> 1552211436 560025 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Phone call14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60440&oldid=60439 5* 03A 5* (+75) 10/* Commands */
< 1552211667 269839 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
> 1552211688 438041 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Phone call14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60441&oldid=60440 5* 03A 5* (+94) 10/* Commands */
< 1552212549 757109 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-167.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :should we put http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck to the http://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Brainfuck_equivalents ?
< 1552213010 418977 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1552213556 216758 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ALLSCI is a Cortex language that A is finishing, so 'for lack of a better term' is all Cortex. It's too confusing. I still think neither of them are a reallycoolusername.
< 1552213589 510434 :moony__!~moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
> 1552216515 758444 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60442&oldid=60359 5* 03Zesterer 5* (+16) 10Added Hanoifuck
< 1552216819 901571 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net PART :#esoteric
< 1552217433 128187 :reconcyl!49fcd62f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.252.214.47 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1552217534 75093 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jvuunpjzubdepftz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552217549 507400 :incomprehensibly!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jwuhiinvzfrlsgwy JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552217564 295829 :ProofTechnique!sid79547@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uxucyhmbsiwggoqq JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552219155 270899 :sparr!~sparr@2604:a880:800:10::103:f001 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552220605 856998 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.211.86 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552220703 249074 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.30.191.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1552220978 504797 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552221112 411662 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1552221112 656657 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
> 1552222511 204045 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Thue14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60443&oldid=60214 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+25) 10/* External resources */  Wayback link to Safalra's Thue pages
< 1552223435 938240 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552223436 20952 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host
< 1552223436 20998 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552224753 888339 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.211.86 NICK :arseniiv
< 1552225678 347029 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552226050 319936 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552226050 401185 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host
< 1552226050 401222 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
> 1552228199 902583 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitwise Scanner14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60444&oldid=60435 5* 03A 5* (+11) 10Simplify the syntax
> 1552228225 870864 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitwise Scanner14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60445&oldid=60444 5* 03A 5* (+32) 10/* Commands */
> 1552228272 861000 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitwise Scanner14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60446&oldid=60445 5* 03A 5* (+19) 10/* Computational Class */
< 1552228348 668551 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552228368 165920 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded
> 1552228530 93659 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bucket14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60447&oldid=60403 5* 03A 5* (-23) 10/* Commands */
> 1552228557 274817 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bucket14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60448&oldid=60447 5* 03A 5* (-166) 10/* Implementation(s) */
> 1552228574 334193 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bucket14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60449&oldid=60448 5* 03A 5* (-93) 10/* Computational class */
> 1552228602 314033 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bucket14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60450&oldid=60449 5* 03A 5* (+9) 10
< 1552229006 274519 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552229503 130376 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ifrzcxiuqrdrlxed JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552233254 344949 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-167.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.comicgenesis.com/d/20190310.html
< 1552233255 392922 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.comicgenesis.com/d/20190310.html: b_jonas
< 1552233479 875005 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552237661 764973 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552237750 891707 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1552237824 800741 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552237953 272390 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1552240143 873188 :sparr!~sparr@2604:a880:800:10::103:f001 QUIT :Changing host
< 1552240143 873241 :sparr!~sparr@pdpc/supporter/active/sparr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552241392 135808 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552241729 948269 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have idea if each command executed is erased, but the program is initially tiled into the infinite plane so that you will not run out.
> 1552245530 219423 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:BradensEsolangs14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60451&oldid=59778 5* 03BradensEsolangs 5* (+8) 10fixed
< 1552247092 863852 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1552247981 281249 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552248234 786556 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Even though I don't have an antenna for that RTL-SDR stick, I managed to catch a beacon with it by plugging it to the TV aerial here: http://www.gb3vhf.co.uk/GB3UHFhome.html -- I guess the 70cm amateur radio band is pretty close to DVB-T broadcasts.
< 1552248247 382912 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool
< 1552248269 639041 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know 70cm even has beacons
< 1552248276 841002 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :here I would listen to a repeater and wait for it to ident
< 1552248308 693767 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile I'm trying to decode digital modes on HF using the little shortwave radio i bought yesterday at the flea market
< 1552248734 901144 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-167.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 3e8%0.70 NB. 70 cm? what's that in frequency?
< 1552248735 565951 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 4.28571e8
< 1552248750 406319 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-167.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :428 megahertz
< 1552248940 845263 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: the 70 cm ham band is 430-440 in the UK, and 420-450 in murca
< 1552248947 368057 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ITU regions 1 and 2 resp.)
< 1552248949 244407 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/70-centimeter_band
< 1552248960 536545 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Regulatory/Band%20Chart/Band%20Chart%20-%2011X17%20Color.pdf
< 1552248966 339929 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also known as UHF
< 1552248990 960031 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :very popular for local communication
< 1552249012 103221 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :those cheap baofeng handhelds everyone buys / complains about do 70 cm as well as 2 m (VHF, 144-147)
< 1552249030 733901 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :some also do 1.25 m (222-225) but that's much less popular
< 1552249075 713604 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :most areas have plenty of repeaters on 2m and 70cm
< 1552249081 187865 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :using a repeater you can easily go 100 miles
< 1552249104 292275 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :VHF/UHF depends a whole lot on location. line of sight is key
< 1552249116 391654 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :repeaters are on top of mountains which is why they're so effective (plus better antenna and hardware and more power)
< 1552249152 819174 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not using a repeater your range will vary from less than a mile, up to 50+ miles if you're both on top of tall hills
< 1552249163 545713 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my wife and I made a 28 mile contact: https://i.imgur.com/eLhLWBJ.png
< 1552249171 541918 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :using a 5W handheld and a 50W mobile (car) radio
< 1552249183 267023 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was on top of a hill and as you can see, there were almost no obstructions
< 1552249296 411749 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the consumer stuff like FRS, GMRS, and PMR446 are near the 70cm ham band
> 1552249298 666964 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10deleted "[[02Reverse-Polish-notation Calculator10]]": Copyright violation: page is mostly copied from a GPL source
< 1552249299 701529 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :MURS is near the 2m band
< 1552249310 628650 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are newer radios which use 900 MHz and digital modes
< 1552249326 193173 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you can get ok range with part 15 digital radio on 900
< 1552249342 231611 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CB is much lower frequency, 27 MHz / 11 meters
< 1552249349 866786 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-167.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, line of sight is part of why people use a large antenna 
< 1552249351 783975 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a result you need much longer antennas
< 1552249365 6352 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this is why it's mainly a vehicle as opposed to handheld thing
< 1552249398 929362 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus, the CB power limit is very low. many people use illegal amplifiers, which are generally of poor quality and cause all kinds of interference
< 1552249416 871192 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :tho CB is declining in popularity now that there's LTE coverage along pretty much the whole US interstate network
< 1552250105 529166 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have about 300 repeaters from all over northern California programmed into my handheld
< 1552250124 480786 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many of them are active, I don't know
< 1552250132 401027 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a fair number
< 1552250146 886482 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't talk much, but I listen, and it would be good to have in an emergency
< 1552250254 47015 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: you can also use a directional antenna to get better signal for the same radio power
< 1552250270 150010 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I built a directional 2m antenna out of bits of tape measure
< 1552250285 554562 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-167.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: sure, people use that for all sorts of high bandwidth wireless digital internet connections
< 1552250313 142831 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a good choice for direction finding http://theleggios.net/wb2hol/projects/rdf/tape_bm.htm
< 1552250313 249431 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-167.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :both long distance between two mountains or tall buildings, and short distance with a pair of directional wifi relays for a local network
< 1552250321 804493 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a sport among hams
< 1552250346 227495 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yeah, even with consumer grade wifi gear you can get impressive distance
< 1552250361 111588 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course with 2.4 GHz the line of sight matters even more
< 1552250378 3379 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my favorite design is "Wi-Fry" or "Wok-Fi"
< 1552250386 659887 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you take a steel wok 🏆
< 1552250394 582664 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which approximates a parabolic dish
< 1552250407 975075 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-167.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, with line of sight. my previous job used a pair of wifi routers to relay wifi between the two buildings where the company has offices, a few hundred meters apart. I can't call that high bandwidth though.
< 1552250412 64935 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :drill a hole, stick a USB wifi adapter through to the correct distance
< 1552250428 547425 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :done
< 1552250450 654275 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-167.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the servers and all the tech people were in our building, only some managers and marketing guys worked in the other building, so they didn't need a fast conection to the servers of the local network
< 1552250456 743696 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-167.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they had separate internet service of course
< 1552250478 49612 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to have 300 mbps internet at my house, but that was with several commercial grade millimeter wave (60-80 GHz) links
< 1552250486 479568 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I have gigabit symmetrical fiber
< 1552250518 977382 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :our friendly local ISP MonkeyBrains runs a mesh of wireless links all over the city
< 1552250534 449917 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike Comcast they are not douchebags
< 1552250639 118020 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: you can actually run wifi under amateur radio rules in the USA
< 1552250645 564894 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :with greater power
< 1552250688 825467 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't use encryption of any kind, you must identify (usually by putting callsign in SSID), and no commercial use
< 1552250723 520202 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-167.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, it possible to use wifi with no encryption of any kind, not even weak one?
< 1552250816 169868 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1552250829 15499 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's what open Wifi is.
< 1552250833 610059 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no encryption also means no SSL, no SSH, etc
< 1552250839 427870 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-167.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure
< 1552250864 103443 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the common interpretation of the rules is that you can encrypt passwords or use cryptographic authentication
< 1552250875 290025 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :since that isn't obscuring the content of a "message"
< 1552250888 783043 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :armchair lawyering is an important part of the hobby
< 1552250894 697478 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-167.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: um, what do you mean by "cryptogrtaphic authentication"?
< 1552250907 129803 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-167.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1552250908 221177 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-167.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see
< 1552250909 445711 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ssh pubkey, ssl xlient certs
< 1552250910 728221 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-167.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry
< 1552250935 282577 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the FCC mostly doesn't care unless you're causing problems for other licensed users.
< 1552250939 15095 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you would have to use a null cipher
< 1552250950 559301 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well, some hams are snitches
< 1552250964 95171 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-167.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: or interference with other frequencies, not necessarily with HAM stuff, right?
< 1552250971 311199 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's self regulating and people want to keep that privilege
< 1552250979 342500 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Other frequencies tend to have other licensed users on it.
< 1552250980 113035 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes
< 1552250995 562644 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-167.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you mean licensed in the broad meaning, not just HAM-licensed
< 1552251001 6517 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1552251035 672361 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some bands where hams are secondary and must yield to other users
< 1552251053 91302 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the rest, any licensed amateur has equal right to use the band
< 1552251054 498678 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-167.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I think there are also frequencies reserved for earth-based radio-telescopy, and I don't think the stars broadcasting there got a license from FCC, for lightspeed limit reasons
< 1552251088 305834 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a person can't "own" a frequency although there are voluntary agreements. general courtesy is the way
< 1552251095 132663 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-167.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure
< 1552251127 552244 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are also specific frequencies known for rule breaking
< 1552251139 50736 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Yeah, that's some of the ISM bands.
< 1552251141 238105 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-167.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can never own them because they're only leased for long term
< 1552251142 351275 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :people let them be as long as it doesn't spill over to other freqs
< 1552251237 709280 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-167.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even then with specific restrictions
< 1552251288 900507 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1552251314 449210 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my point is that for hams there's no exclusive right to use any frequency
< 1552251321 538850 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-167.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1552251352 142991 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-167.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the exclusive rights are for television, radio, and mobile telephony
< 1552251357 988362 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-167.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probalby some others
< 1552251382 418522 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :marine, land mobie radio, public safety, aviation, military
< 1552251397 225400 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-167.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, the UHF bands used by some public services
< 1552251438 527297 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-167.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does aviation count as exclusive? aren't most of those bands open for any aviation user?
< 1552251466 381624 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-167.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least partitioned by location that is
< 1552251495 361416 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-167.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a license for that and the aviation authority controls that tightly, but still
< 1552251502 269763 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-167.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like it's exclusive to anyone
< 1552251617 905365 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing each ATC has a specific right for their frequency
< 1552251622 209118 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't there certain code words and stuff like that for aviation use? (Although I suppose anyone can learn what they are, though.)
< 1552251652 182741 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-167.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, and there's a license to pilot aviation, not only for the radio
< 1552251789 831037 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-167.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's also a license and protocol for HAM
< 1552251804 361206 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have been told there is FOWER and FIFE, which is supposed to be used for 4 and 5 but it is rarely used. NINER for 9 is common though)
< 1552251845 643161 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Yes, and I think there is more than one kind of protocol for HAM, such as Morse code or RTTY or voice, and for pictures, slowscan and fastscan are used.
< 1552251888 974366 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-167.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sure, but I think that sort of redundant words are not really exclusive for aviation, it's used for any noisy voice channel, even without radio.
< 1552251960 853939 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, maybe it is
< 1552252033 146135 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-167.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, it's getting less common, because we don't have noisy analog phone lines anymore, so the noise comes more from the air environment rather than wires or radio
< 1552252562 739101 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does wifi over ham radio ban encryption...?
< 1552252790 457356 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, all encrypted comms are banned over ham radio
< 1552252797 887477 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is the range ARL TWENTY SEVEN up to ARL FORTY FIVE unused? (ARL FORTY EIGHT and ARL FORTY NINE also seems unused, even though ARL FORTY SIX and ARL FORTY SEVEN are defined.)
< 1552253899 959399 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552254027 291809 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1552254645 62205 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ifrzcxiuqrdrlxed QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1552256118 27942 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yeah, ham radio uses all kinds of abbreviations and codes. it's full of jargon for jargon's sake
< 1552256124 200482 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they are all well known, so they don't count as encryption
< 1552256178 242478 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1552256355 92894 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552256526 14430 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Roblox basically BYOND for 3D games?
< 1552256550 83745 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to love BYOND as a kid. These days I think people only care about BYOND for Space Station 13
< 1552257655 171060 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
> 1552258503 157026 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Thue14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60452&oldid=60443 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+25) 10/* External resources */ bf in Thue archived resource
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< 1552262158 493190 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qvhfculvwccvfbsy JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552262232 689876 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1552264384 739956 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1552267972 293527 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1552273227 225011 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
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< 1552275367 871860 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1552275523 354398 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552275777 660855 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1552276471 31726 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :
< 1552276800 432736 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 QUIT :Quit: I seem to have stopped.
< 1552276947 254788 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552277085 878326 :tibdit!~G33kDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude NICK :GeekDude
< 1552281584 338764 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, have you seen quantum chess?
< 1552281601 252841 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: I don't think so. How is quantum chess is working?
< 1552281628 863765 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/18278/what-are-the-rules-of-quantum-chess
< 1552281677 53653 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK I will look
< 1552281678 374029 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://quantumfrontiers.com/2016/02/15/quantum-chess/
< 1552281784 417394 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do hope the creator of that just shares an unfortunate name with the infamous person
< 1552281790 70533 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than being the person
< 1552281901 927123 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really care if they are or not
< 1552282253 129671 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the software the person made for it isn't sufficient to show the full state
< 1552282604 358326 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you are probably correct, but I have not tried it. Is there a explanation with Dirac notation or other mathematical notations to show the states?
< 1552282723 900765 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea
< 1552286513 134599 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net PART :#esoteric
< 1552287282 965250 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552287453 331247 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1552287526 865784 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552288748 992 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552289803 283057 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
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< 1552296037 974247 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552296049 184840 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mjbatcpbaogyqaow JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552296745 652963 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1552298470 974699 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:c4b3:df17:f65b:3fa3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reminded of this https://imgur.com/HO7CC (though in this case the person with the unfortunate name was actually the guy)
< 1552298681 287338 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1552302525 11826 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
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< 1552307604 201678 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552307621 982971 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1552307746 526750 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1552308902 237641 :mniip!mniip@freenode/staff/mniip QUIT :Ping timeout: 600 seconds
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< 1552315576 127617 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-buiavwxisbesmynp JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1552317386 997014 :mniip!mniip@freenode/staff/mniip QUIT :Ping timeout: 615 seconds
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< 1552317661 772236 :mniip!mniip@freenode/staff/mniip JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552318243 414886 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's always fun when you compile your code with profiling enabled and it becomes 3x slower.
< 1552318350 792260 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fine as long as everything becomes 3x slower
< 1552318518 709201 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably good enough to find hotspots at this stage
< 1552318545 896943 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am glad that i did not yet come to a point where i needed to do that
< 1552320343 524582 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1552320384 463848 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :6x speedup in one slow case. sweet.
< 1552320473 793673 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Though not unexpected. In the spirit of keeping code simple I deliberataly iterated over a list of pairs, filtering on some element, rather than preparing an associative map for that purpose.)
> 1552322995 55223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitwise Scanner14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60453&oldid=60446 5* 03Plokmijnuhby 5* (+84) 10/* Computational Class */
> 1552323036 83397 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitwise Scanner14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60454&oldid=60453 5* 03Plokmijnuhby 5* (+51) 10/* Computational Class */
> 1552323187 712242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SWhoopieenddns14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60455&oldid=60405 5* 03Plokmijnuhby 5* (+1) 10You missed a /.
> 1552324202 897837 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Interfrac14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60456&oldid=60364 5* 03Plokmijnuhby 5* (+434) 10/* Mathematics */ new section
< 1552324362 271574 :MDead!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1552324457 321148 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in
< 1552324457 360597 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1552324457 400000 :AnotherTest_!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be NICK :AnotherTest
< 1552324526 513965 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552324543 862179 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1552324547 189595 :MDead!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude
< 1552325228 295022 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
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< 1552326906 599557 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0055b480cc1cf33ba4.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1552330131 709643 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://imgur.com/1OlVNke
> 1552331633 956976 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hurgusburgus14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60457&oldid=59797 5* 03BradensEsolangs 5* (+93) 10
< 1552332714 536827 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-7.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552334321 674639 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552335135 973004 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552335258 151573 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552335618 689593 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :does decoding digital ham radio transmissions with a pocket shortwave and a microphone count as esoteric? https://imgur.com/a/0I3xOsw
< 1552336107 623577 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-7.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1552336242 97582 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: Adventures in partitioning your SSD
< 1552336506 954811 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552336956 572429 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm fueue questions in the logs
< 1552336962 431964 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but reconcyl is not here.
< 1552337122 509103 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or on freenode
< 1552337378 694304 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure the truth-machine example answers their question in principle, although they may not have deciphered it enough to tell
< 1552337419 917840 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in, it _does_ turn the input back into a number before doing anything else.)
< 1552340676 678941 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0055b480cc1cf33ba4.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
< 1552341341 752483 :bobby!~Bob@76.202.115.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1552341457 771725 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.86 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1552341685 178074 :bobby!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:11c8:fdcf:3611:93a8 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552342236 546079 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552342904 137193 :bobby!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:11c8:fdcf:3611:93a8 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552343120 546963 :bobby!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:9482:49a8:26f2:b092 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552343276 230131 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :amusing unicode fact of the day:
< 1552343289 416259 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :'HOT BEVERAGE' (U+2615) is specified to be *either* tea or coffee, depending on locale
< 1552343741 552258 :bobby!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:9482:49a8:26f2:b092 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1552343771 680935 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I test if a glob matches anything
< 1552343780 298998 :bobby!~Bob@76.202.115.164 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552343873 676034 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I can't drink either :(
< 1552343930 777466 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ls returns 0 if it exists
< 1552343953 894777 :david_werecat!~a1@198-48-234-231.cpe.pppoe.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552343988 927247 :david_werecat!~a1@198-48-234-231.cpe.pppoe.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :!zjoust mist ++++>(+)*7([{(>)*8(>(-)*9[+-+][+--+](-)*7)*-1}]<(+-++-+++)*-1)%1333
< 1552343989 655039 :zemhill_______!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :david_werecat.mist: points 12.62, score 53.25, rank 1/47
< 1552344083 258547 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: how come
< 1552344242 34468 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: caffeine intolerance, they make me feel ill
< 1552344246 860175 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear
< 1552344253 506382 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about decaf coffee or herbal tea?
< 1552344285 107078 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never acquired the taste for decaf coffee, haven't actually tried herbal tea but it doesn't appeal to me
< 1552344480 850563 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, a short new bfjoust winner
< 1552344521 794840 :david_werecat!~a1@198-48-234-231.cpe.pppoe.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't call it generally good, but it works for the current hill.
< 1552344542 498722 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just happy the whole thing was still online and didn't immediately crash.
< 1552344552 549774 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :always a bonus
< 1552344622 232938 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a new winner means I need to relearn how to update the visualizations.
< 1552344878 375277 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :git push origin new-new-new-new-refactor
< 1552344892 887374 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a lot of different herbal teas
< 1552344895 513397 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi fizzie 
< 1552344903 738161 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmc
< 1552344912 433749 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm bad at portahellos.)
< 1552344990 478656 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found a "commands.txt" that seems to suggest how to generate the visualizations, but it predates the superfluous switch to Bazel.
< 1552345051 671757 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*superfluid
< 1552346103 875150 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552346251 798763 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552346400 192895 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1552346624 331755 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. I managed to update the legacy egostats plots, but apparently the modern browsery kind are done differently. And the Ruby stuff has bitrotted away. :/
< 1552346635 100046 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"undefined method `>>' for [909064502]:Array"
< 1552346725 412751 :david_werecat!~a1@198-48-234-231.cpe.pppoe.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks for the update!
< 1552347479 220473 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, looks like on Ruby 2.5.0, requiring nmatrix (0.2.4) which depends on packable (1.3.10) just breaks all IO.
< 1552347526 859421 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rubby
< 1552347535 484150 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=888164
< 1552347562 499745 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should give up on this and try to get moving again with the port over to esolangs.org.
< 1552347661 925070 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( why would you port a broken program )
< 1552347691 341947 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe "port" is the wrong word, it's a full-on rewrite as usual.
< 1552347955 537645 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-buiavwxisbesmynp QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1552348341 532183 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552348603 510728 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1552349000 204235 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY
< 1552349552 92064 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1552349831 748019 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552350259 540527 :ProofTechnique!sid79547@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uxucyhmbsiwggoqq PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Consider another viewpoint: if all IO is broken, your code is guaranteed to be pure
< 1552350262 625219 :ProofTechnique!sid79547@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uxucyhmbsiwggoqq PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth
< 1552350333 531221 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :tdh but only my feelings.
< 1552350599 163786 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552350601 729845 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa
< 1552350611 64177 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :has everyone been making clever help/hurt hth puns for years
< 1552350614 252218 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that i never got
< 1552350615 955954 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :tdh
< 1552350682 226047 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I meant "help" there.
< 1552350700 465451 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was an unintenpun.
< 1552350852 84174 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1552351768 686790 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
> 1552352274 812859 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03EnilKoder 5*  10New user account
< 1552353478 253031 :david_werecat!~a1@198-48-234-231.cpe.pppoe.ca QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1552353641 81394 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552353909 96338 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552354017 536745 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552355050 314997 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell zzo38 To answer a question I missed, x86 has always had a fast byte swap for 16-bit values (via `xchg al, ah` and so on), and from 80486 onwards gained a BSWAP instruction to swap the endianness of 32-bit and (on x86-64) 64-bit values.
< 1552355050 396905 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1552355158 86175 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And GCC will convert a more naive bit shifting sequence into just using bswap.
< 1552355226 565419 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, uint32_t x = (b[0] << 24) | (b[1] << 16) | (b[2] << 8) | b[3]; becomes a nice and simple fetch and bswap.
< 1552355241 569220 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting
< 1552355253 112144 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh neat
< 1552355311 725678 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo 'unsigned f(unsigned n) { return n >> 24 | (n & 0xff0000) >> 8 | (n & 0xff00) << 8 | n << 24; }' | gcc -x c - -o - -S -O3 | grep -v \\. | tr '\t' ' '  # just checking
< 1552355312 875242 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :f: \  movl %edi, %eax \  bswap %eax \  ret
< 1552355347 102939 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice command line
< 1552355348 472442 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :A+
< 1552355422 986634 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I stole the grep -v idiom from ais523's prior art. Although `fgrep -v .` would've been simpler.
< 1552355437 84123 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` gcc -x c - -o - -S -O3 <<<'unsigned f(unsigned n) { return n >> 24 | (n & 0xff0000) >> 8 | (n & 0xff00) << 8 | n << 24; }' | fgrep -v . | expand
< 1552355438 140379 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :f: \         movl    %edi, %eax \         bswap   %eax \         ret
< 1552355447 819008 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :UUOE removed :-)
< 1552355461 770346 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I wanted to test to see how it looked after running through expand
< 1552355515 446159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tr output is probably better
< 1552355525 911323 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :better still would be a "condense all whitespace to a single space", though
< 1552355537 191505 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure there's a standard command for that
< 1552355559 877611 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` gcc -x c - -o - -S -O3 <<<'unsigned f(unsigned n) { return n >> 24 | (n & 0xff0000) >> 8 | (n & 0xff00) << 8 | n << 24; }' | fgrep -v . | fmt -999
< 1552355560 911566 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :f: \ 	movl	%edi, %eax bswap   %eax ret
< 1552355574 52880 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1552355704 380995 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you condense *all* whitespace to single space, it may be hard to separate opcodes and arguments. And if you leave newlines untouched, the \s will look misaligned because there will be (coalesced) whitespace right after a newline, but not before.
< 1552355803 302074 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about condensing all whitespace to a single whitespace character, \n the whitespace contained vertical whitespace, space if it was entirely horizontal?
< 1552355813 906700 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* \n if
< 1552355823 804701 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds reasonable, but probably not a standard utility.
< 1552355828 146555 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, this is beginning to sound like a PPCG challenge now
< 1552355854 59134 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! retina abc
< 1552355854 799787 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/!: line 4: /hackenv/ibin/retina: No such file or directory
< 1552355867 639487 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, why can't HackEso do its originial job of interpreting esolangs? :-D
< 1552355889 767711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, IIRC the official Retina interpreter is written in C#, so getting it running on HackEso is likely to be difficult
< 1552355942 201649 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: sorry for my connection
< 1552355954 272551 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552355986 370411 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` gcc -x c - -o - -S -O3 <<<'unsigned f(unsigned n) { return n >> 24 | (n & 0xff0000) >> 8 | (n & 0xff00) << 8 | n << 24; }' | fgrep -v . | cat -v
< 1552355987 363485 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :f: \ 	movl	%edi, %eax \ 	bswap	%eax \ 	ret
< 1552356006 81940 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm confused, what happened to the tabs?
< 1552356023 987057 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` printf '\t' | cat -v | od -t x1z
< 1552356024 839294 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :0000000 09                                               >.< \ 0000001
< 1552356034 732207 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently cat -v doesn't make them visible, despite what it's documented to do?
< 1552356034 874428 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` gcc -x c - -o - -S -O3 <<<'unsigned f(unsigned n) { return n >> 24 | (n  0xff0000) >> 8 | (n & 0xff00) << 8 | n << 24; }' | fgrep -v . | perl -0 -pe 's|(\s+)|$1=~/\n/?"\n":" "|ge'
< 1552356035 868731 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​: In function ‘f’: \ :1:47: error: expected ‘)’ before numeric constant
< 1552356052 364248 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, it worked for me in a terminal.
< 1552356055 846626 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you somehow missed an & sign
< 1552356059 787508 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the middle of the C code
< 1552356064 581532 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oh.
< 1552356070 686107 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` gcc -x c - -o - -S -O3 <<<'unsigned f(unsigned n) { return n >> 24 | (n & 0xff0000) >> 8 | (n & 0xff00) << 8 | n << 24; }' | fgrep -v . | perl -0 -pe 's|(\s+)|$1=~/\n/?"\n":" "|ge'
< 1552356071 667323 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :f: \ movl %edi, %eax \ bswap %eax \ ret
< 1552356073 514663 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty bizarre as typos go
< 1552356085 631084 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's where the line was wrapped, I copy-pasted it as two chunks.
< 1552356291 788577 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm sure the Perl part has a lot of fluff, but the ()/$1 bit could've been just $&.
< 1552356392 135712 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls ibin | wc -l
< 1552356393 19589 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :46
< 1552356395 77837 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vaguely remember nested regexes not working in old Perl versions, but that's likely been fixed by now
< 1552356396 807722 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does have a bunch of them.
< 1552356405 929487 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, from something like ten years ago
< 1552356415 447699 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, don't most of them not work?
< 1552356428 26184 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! kipple 65>o<66
< 1552356428 65651 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some probably don't, some just haven't been tried.
< 1552356428 880303 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :BA
< 1552356433 599359 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that one works
< 1552356459 710364 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sh" and "c" are hardly esoteric. Or "bf_txtgen" an interpreter, for that matter.
< 1552356466 559376 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember that EgoBot's Underload interpreter wasn't built in, rather it was written in brainfuck
< 1552356467 166333 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm guessing bf_txtgen is unlikely to work too.)
< 1552356474 874953 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! bf_txtgen Hello, world!
< 1552356475 775813 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/ibin/bf_txtgen: line 6: java: command not found
< 1552356485 349231 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that's a fairly major problem :-D
< 1552356502 477337 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't run a Java program without a JVM
< 1552356507 910344 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we could write one in Befunge or something
< 1552356520 268299 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :compile it with GCJ!
< 1552356529 81094 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no GHC either, so `! haskell won't run. But lambdabot makes it pretty unnecessary.
< 1552356535 349581 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can GCJ compile Java bytecode?
< 1552356576 88654 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it ought to.
< 1552356642 76971 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The source code seems to be there next to the .class files in interps/bf_txtgen/ anyway.
< 1552356994 468112 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can decompile .class to .java
< 1552356997 235168 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it ought to be able to
< 1552357000 887678 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are probably corner cases, though
< 1552357019 916237 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION remembers as a wee lad decompiling the Yahoo! Poker applet to successfully figure out how to cheat
< 1552357045 892860 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a Perl script that would proxy the game communications and tell me which cards everyone had
< 1552357055 207284 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as which cards would be dealt in the future
< 1552357060 549806 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad it wasn't real money
< 1552357076 532945 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552357088 999468 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was possible because they didn't send the cards from the server, only a RNG seed, and the data stream had some weak (XOR-level) encryption
< 1552357227 91528 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember watching someone try to play Go on Yahoo!
< 1552357241 293949 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had a rule that if the players didn't agree on the score after two passes, they were forced to play on and weren't allowed to pass
< 1552357272 602496 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could win by passing repeatedly, forcing the opponent to play stones on every square of the board, and eventually lose on time
< 1552357284 700398 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because it wouldn't let them pass nor play a move at that point)
< 1552357288 565907 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:c4b3:df17:f65b:3fa3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know a 6 dan player who learned all the way up to 2d or something by playing Go on Yahoo, he actually had no idea that it was a game that people played anywhere else.
< 1552357359 524534 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1552357425 266694 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1552357518 724376 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:c4b3:df17:f65b:3fa3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He thought it was just like, invented by Yahoo! or something
< 1552357520 655374 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:c4b3:df17:f65b:3fa3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha
< 1552357537 155555 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:c4b3:df17:f65b:3fa3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :until they shut down
> 1552358226 773921 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Increment14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60458&oldid=60077 5* 03Camto 5* (+267) 10Added partial implementation.
< 1552361147 65676 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :
< 1552361477 565950 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qxniwmowszbuqomk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552361551 895435 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how can it be that the players don't agree on the score
< 1552361558 687679 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that mean
< 1552361574 930685 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: the game asked the players what the score was, if they disagreed, it forced play on
< 1552361582 713646 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :under Japanese rules the players have to agree which stones are alive or dead
< 1552361592 205836 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(most computer play nowadays uses a scoring variation where it doesn't matter)
< 1552363588 905103 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552363882 707916 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1552369555 411253 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qxniwmowszbuqomk QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1552369753 622063 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mdtlozjojbeisjzp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552370088 222393 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552370352 71661 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1552370414 975208 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552370563 93962 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit
< 1552370646 895235 :lifthrasiir_!~lifthrasi@ec2-52-79-98-81.ap-northeast-2.compute.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552370700 898243 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552370701 971365 :ineiros!ineiros@kapsi.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552370840 995554 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1552370841 256068 :fractal!~fractal@unaffiliated/scounder QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1552370841 295550 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@ec2-52-79-98-81.ap-northeast-2.compute.amazonaws.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552370841 471398 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1552370841 571342 :ineiros_!ineiros@kapsi.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1552371872 709788 :fractal!~fractal@unaffiliated/scounder JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552372366 714861 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1552372883 232550 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552376561 247744 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552376742 244223 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.200 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552376824 220500 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1552377190 964709 :tromp!~tromp@217.103.3.94 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552378322 682880 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu
< 1552378875 529305 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552379139 509365 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1552379296 280867 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552382687 272425 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcehbybvusuxld.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1552383602 274508 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552383847 286472 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1552384491 220153 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552384930 219543 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1552385308 191880 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552385670 136673 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1552386017 379081 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552386378 387392 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1552386417 510027 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552387316 702743 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552390090 586807 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mdtlozjojbeisjzp QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1552393074 461920 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552393180 869399 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1552393222 624201 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1552395066 418544 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552399218 846631 :newbie37!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552399418 572615 :Roger9_!rdococ@cheapiesystems.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552399464 316478 :int-e_!~noone@int-e.eu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552399468 409955 :atehwa_!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552399779 112461 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1552399779 261500 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1552399779 261554 :rdococ!rdococ@cheapiesystems.com QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1552399779 471175 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1552399779 741623 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1552399835 741433 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552399979 965485 :fractal!~fractal@unaffiliated/scounder QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1552401058 316535 :fractal!~fractal@unaffiliated/scounder JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552401915 282493 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lpzjeoqrkvnvzcdl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552402041 526533 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1552403661 324732 :newbie37!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting
< 1552403679 628903 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552403901 735991 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552403941 10392 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would an automaton look like that could generate a list of all possible combinations of n pairs of parentheses?
< 1552403953 151604 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e I hand you the number 2, you give me back (()) and ()()
< 1552403993 946680 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :intuition about matching tells me that you can write an acceptor for dyck words of that sort using a PDA.
< 1552404000 764212 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I've never thought about generating.
< 1552404051 182261 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you'd need separate automata depending on the number of pairs you wanted to generate.
< 1552404242 234931 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: up the answer for that in TAOCP chapter 7.2.1.6
< 1552404275 706888 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the solution actually an automaton or some pseudocode.
< 1552404543 412407 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay... that wasn't what I was looking for, but thanks for the pointer.
> 1552404814 259980 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60459&oldid=60358 5* 03EnilKoder 5* (+638) 10/* Introductions */
> 1552404824 12524 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07EnilKode14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60460 5* 03EnilKoder 5* (+5068) 10Created page with "==enilKode== enilKode is the first programming language created by enilKoder, which is where he got his username for Esolang. The name enilKode comes from his username on [htt..."
> 1552405349 949977 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Mao14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60461 5* 03EnilKoder 5* (+550) 10No information for this programming language is available; learn about robots.txt
> 1552405551 456238 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TroJavaScript14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60462 5* 03EnilKoder 5* (+216) 10This is just JavaScript, right? That's not what I wanted my program to do!
> 1552405625 751967 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Caotic 5*  10New user account
> 1552406680 214565 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60463&oldid=60237 5* 03EnilKoder 5* (+95) 10/* General languages */
< 1552407402 560778 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1552408066 749428 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1552409482 993317 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552409687 134252 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lpzjeoqrkvnvzcdl QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1552410190 762851 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
> 1552410662 68130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60464&oldid=60459 5* 03Caotic 5* (+198) 10
> 1552410696 139395 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Caotic14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60465 5* 03Caotic 5* (+118) 10Created page with "Hello! I like how esolang can be a unique tool for learning minimal calculus, so I am here to help more the community."
> 1552410718 4340 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Grr14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60466 5* 03Caotic 5* (+3723) 10Created page with "Grr is a pure textual programming language that composes rules and functions inspired in macro and high-order programming. Exist two ways of define rules in Grr, first using a..."
> 1552410829 132393 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Grr14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60467&oldid=60466 5* 03Caotic 5* (+108) 10
> 1552410927 377536 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Grr14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60468&oldid=60467 5* 03Caotic 5* (+0) 10
> 1552411106 111741 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ASCII14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60469 5* 03Camto 5* (+124) 10Page creation.
< 1552411113 161337 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1552411121 934763 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1552411242 862427 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bootstrap14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60470 5* 03Camto 5* (+234) 10Page creation.
> 1552411420 307211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Call stack14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60471&oldid=51804 5* 03Camto 5* (-31) 10Broken link.
> 1552411495 738863 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60472&oldid=60442 5* 03Caotic 5* (+10) 10
< 1552411504 267908 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
> 1552411558 671957 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[079014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60473&oldid=44763 5* 03Camto 5* (-6) 10Broken link.
> 1552411609 750046 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07The Inevitable14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60474&oldid=46316 5* 03Camto 5* (+19) 10Broken link.
> 1552411874 67982 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Grr14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60475&oldid=60468 5* 03Caotic 5* (+6) 10
> 1552411914 893996 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Grr14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60476&oldid=60475 5* 03Caotic 5* (+0) 10
< 1552412339 468093 :int-e_!~noone@int-e.eu NICK :int-e
< 1552412607 274872 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1552412625 687389 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0085f21ef7944f920e.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552412663 942470 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1552414529 163132 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0085f21ef7944f920e.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552414554 203082 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552415348 96262 :adu!~arobbins@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1552416430 93824 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Asty 5*  10New user account
< 1552416477 556064 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yjnopjmvqutdifug JOIN :#esoteric
> 1552416571 539048 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Sentry 5*  10New user account
< 1552416727 69654 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
> 1552417005 715966 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60477&oldid=60464 5* 03Sentry 5* (+176) 10add my introduction
> 1552417022 773203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ly14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60478&oldid=58552 5* 03Sentry 5* (+96) 10Add new interpreter to list
< 1552417640 566058 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a006c85e2af64192b74.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552418212 538903 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552418340 493871 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552418353 747734 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1552418440 725903 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552418623 534456 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552418849 520296 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1552419190 728230 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1552420856 978504 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552420865 163544 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host
< 1552420865 163588 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552421749 240623 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552421845 647273 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552422354 849588 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523  apparently cat -v doesn't make them visible, despite what it's documented to do? <-- the man page here says it excludes tabs, you need -T for that.
< 1552422354 943920 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1552422387 574817 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 or just -t
< 1552422387 659232 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1552422396 599529 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that why it's considered harmful
< 1552422407 785173 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is
< 1552422437 911094 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( i didn't mention goto anywhere... )
< 1552422441 186929 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@2600:380:8046:700a:3c:ee1:5436:dd14 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552422496 192914 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or cat -A
< 1552422501 931544 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: do you occasionally comment on yafgc?
< 1552422632 82911 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yes
< 1552422676 693016 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesterday i couldn't get comments to load, though.
< 1552422712 424643 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc it was an occasional problem some days before too
< 1552422749 466408 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.4
< 1552422766 250814 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, comments for the last page, the previous loaded fine.
< 1552422784 62577 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but i loaded that first and then went to read something else, so...)
< 1552422828 959217 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i still have the tabs open.
< 1552423027 852121 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: do you? not by that nick, at least.
< 1552423054 34208 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION guesses you're not Guesticus.
< 1552423113 929805 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would _not_ bet on Guesticus not being A, though.
< 1552423378 488503 :mniip!mniip@freenode/staff/mniip QUIT :Ping timeout: 600 seconds
< 1552423448 1022 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no I don't. I just read a few and stumbled over a certain nick.
< 1552423503 792821 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry if that's disappointing)
< 1552423950 462415 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwnot really
< 1552424321 702801 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"VAROITUS: Tamä tuote sisältää ja sitä poltettaessa siltä erityy kemikaaleja, joiden on Kalifornian osavaltiossa todettu aiheuttavan syöpää ja sikiön epämuodostumia tai muita lisääntymiskykyyn littyviä vaurioita." — a camp stove fuel canister I own
< 1552424424 4679 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a006c85e2af64192b74.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552424444 524535 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a006c85e2af64192b74.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552425873 722839 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-hnidskzaoyonzvtb JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552425887 224154 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yjnopjmvqutdifug QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1552425934 671974 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-hnidskzaoyonzvtb PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa, I've got a fancy [m] at the end of my nick! I think.
< 1552425948 58111 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-hnidskzaoyonzvtb PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figure I probably do. That seems pretty likely.
< 1552426009 542290 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the [m]atrix has got you
< 1552426029 937659 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett[m]: if that was a question, yes, you do
< 1552426080 488147 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: you can use a bot to find what your nick is. eg. try /msg perlbot &n
< 1552426169 758496 :mniip!mniip@freenode/staff/mniip JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552426176 653656 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or to find if you have a [m] at the end of your nick, 
< 1552426185 744717 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :/msg perlbot compose `eval `arg d&n'=~/[\[{][mM][\]}]$/ ? "yes" : "no"'
< 1552426195 914525 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though that doesn't try to determine if it's a fancy one or not
< 1552426232 485450 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm wait
< 1552426235 61681 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they could also check the channel logs
< 1552426237 111148 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs
< 1552426242 351656 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but where's the fun in that?
> 1552426269 249044 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALLSCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60479&oldid=60412 5* 03Cortex 5* (-122) 10Removed ~ and @, we already have those instructions
< 1552426301 835235 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But more importantly, the real quote is just "the matrix has you".
< 1552426375 11156 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also /msg perlbot 8ball do I have a fancy [m] at the end of my nick?
< 1552426378 118333 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's less reliable
< 1552426624 995572 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi!
< 1552426625 236654 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: so of course it's ambiguous if you don't, it will handle an empty array the same way
< 1552426645 771327 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
< 1552426666 807189 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't even remind me of matlab's truthyness rule, my hon. and learned friend fungot
< 1552426667 92911 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: nooooo, don't ask why), microsoft products have assimilated quite well, thanks. i don't
< 1552426758 290090 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you're looking for a bot that will parrot your nick...)
< 1552426788 180974 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@2600:380:8046:700a:3c:ee1:5436:dd14 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1552426792 711013 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar lowi
< 1552426794 318744 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOWI 122120Z 28010KT 9999 FEW090 BKN120 02/M03 Q1015 NOSIG
< 1552427090 315536 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :'"
< 1552427095 478561 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`"
< 1552427096 473174 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :417)  It's ok guys.  I am doing what I can to keep my psyche and ego surviving. All the while the threat of ww3 looms, the mortality of family and friends(loved ones?) and sooner or llater my own mortality. \ 1217)  ...my university's Scandinavian Society is having a trip to IKEA
< 1552427149 823081 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fear and Loathing at IKEA
< 1552427973 673511 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man
< 1552427977 978674 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i miss itidus
< 1552427983 583827 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a nutter
< 1552427993 895518 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope he's doing well
< 1552427998 470214 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1552427998 708550 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :still making his instant coffee
< 1552428032 858109 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am feeling pretty shit today :(
< 1552428038 843675 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :day started good and got bad
< 1552428042 700699 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's kind of the opposite of usual
< 1552428085 876369 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I'm ever going to get over the things that upset me :(
< 1552428091 283604 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to last much longer if I don't :(
< 1552428111 766868 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this, like, your general dissatisfaction with the rest of the human race or something else
< 1552428120 322883 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1552428152 358557 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it... bay area property disputes or something
< 1552428155 410117 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stuff with rust-lang and all my trauma from living with gender dysphoria
< 1552428222 620302 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, this probably isn't the place to talk about it
< 1552428228 901773 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mention of nutters made me bring it up :P
< 1552428235 242775 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with rust-lang other than the sjw shitheads setting themselves up as moral arbiters
< 1552428240 435611 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that
< 1552428245 651973 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :more or less
< 1552428259 541066 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the general niceness policing
< 1552428282 593714 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hypocrisy
< 1552428283 754025 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552428303 540357 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first CoC dispute I got into was not SJW related, it was the fact that they failed to get rid of a particular abrasive community member for at least 3 years
< 1552428306 982476 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because "he writes good code"
< 1552428314 948344 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they all acknowledge he was a problem
< 1552428321 495880 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the exact opposite of what the CoC was supposed to mean
< 1552428324 575989 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were hypocrites from day one
< 1552428333 404786 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it really hurts that I used to believe them and believe in all that crap
< 1552428341 889461 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now it's taken over open source and I don't feel safe anywhee
< 1552428344 452863 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anywhere*
< 1552428357 600084 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me that's like... ok at least i can understand it as a pragmatic compromise
< 1552428391 202051 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but the whole community just pats each other on the back over how ~friendly and welcoming~ they are
< 1552428395 812104 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :while ignoring everyone who disagrees
< 1552428396 930885 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1552428434 534172 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sjw shit disturbs me on a deeper level because ashley williams or whoever she was does not actually say 'kill all men' out of a deep personality dysfunction
< 1552428455 539538 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :she says it because there's a whole fucking culture now that covers for and endorses that sort of behaviour
< 1552428463 598013 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1552428470 549004 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I partly agree with that
< 1552428483 684199 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think people say awful things to get applause on Twitter without thinking about how it might affect others
< 1552428486 29712 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just seems like manifestations of a cult that glorifies abuse and suffering
< 1552428493 179014 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely
< 1552428499 829564 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also, I would not at all be surprised if she has some gender related trauma in her past
< 1552428509 332138 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of people do
< 1552428513 588008 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people tend to pay their trauma forward
< 1552428516 614540 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do it too :(
< 1552428642 629010 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm
< 1552428677 419521 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm doing therapy and lots of other things but i'm not sure it will help fast enough :(
< 1552428765 589652 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really exhausting waking up every goddamn day and being upset about the same thing
< 1552428787 376895 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'm sorry again for supporting those people long ago :(
< 1552428793 452607 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got disillusioned pretty quick
< 1552428799 342019 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my interpretation of a lot of events has changed
< 1552428906 222780 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Ashley also gets special treatment because she's fucking Steve Klabnik
< 1552428918 222712 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this may explain why she gets to be in charge to begin with, seeing as she appears to have no useful skills
< 1552428941 198377 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahahahahahaha
< 1552428978 13132 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do think the npm sjw's have chilled out though, whether it's because they realized they hurt people or just that it's bad for their careers, i don't know
< 1552428996 527579 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you read jon ronson's book on public shaming
< 1552429010 467560 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would hope that being the subject of investigations from all of npm, linux, and rust may have given her pause
< 1552429022 670350 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a chapter on donglegate
< 1552429091 793352 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did not read it
< 1552429109 168499 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do feel bad for encouraging public shaming against her
< 1552429110 834652 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really interesting because the two dudes who lost their jobs for making dumb dick jokes behind an inquisitor were really humble and apologetic about the whole thing, and they'd also got decent jobs right afterwards
< 1552429115 172131 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel like something of a hypocrite
< 1552429125 104271 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, live by the sword die by the sword
< 1552429131 960156 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus I complained through the Proper Channels first
< 1552429136 390567 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and was dismissed
< 1552429174 630820 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :the inquisitor herself also lost her job and when interviewed was completely unrepentant, all 'i was martyred for standing up for women. this is what they do. my life is ruined. my every day is suffering. i still don't have a job. i blame the trauma'
< 1552429194 491954 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1552429200 556492 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they cry misogyny whenever challenged
< 1552429206 144058 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, like, i actually have principles and i don't think anyone deserves to lose their job because of an internet hate mob
< 1552429216 554222 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even want ashley to lose her job, I would like an apology though
< 1552429219 559354 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's far too late for that
< 1552429219 599011 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think i smirked a bit after that chapter
< 1552429222 838549 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :after the way I've acted
< 1552429224 83888 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1552429231 655296 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think her clique also lost a lot of status after the ayo.js debacle, which was beyond embarrassing
< 1552429241 906580 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :people have seen that they are a drain on the project
< 1552429252 978800 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think that's why she's bouncing around to different communities
< 1552429265 410765 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552429278 129203 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just need to figure out what my unfinished business is, so I can move on and forget all of this
< 1552429294 420571 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i think the 4channy dipshits who afaik actually do love slinging death and rape threats and doxx at any woman they can pick out make it easy to honestly think it's Them Vs The Misogynists
< 1552429419 236057 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i mean this stuff bothers me but it seems to weigh on you a lot more
< 1552429481 845575 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1552429491 547334 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it bothers me more than anyone else I know :(
< 1552429498 439010 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there are a few people who are close
< 1552429514 23489 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they happen to be non-cisgender AMABs as well
< 1552429528 281770 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1552429534 26072 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :....All Mods Are Bastards?
< 1552429612 382387 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1552429615 835727 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :assigned male at birth
< 1552429618 155104 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I like yours too
< 1552429745 834865 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd feel a lot better if I could work on some other OSS thing or something else in life that is productive
< 1552429756 78209 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm kind of drifting right now
< 1552429791 87748 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :most things in my life are great, I'm not really depressed, I get upset about specific things though
< 1552429800 211120 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I feel like I'm not contributing much to society
< 1552429800 354361 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been thinking all my open source stuff is pointless because nobody cares about it
< 1552429811 170811 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I worked on things people actually do care about
< 1552429815 857840 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now I don't see that happening ever again :(
< 1552429829 354649 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how come?
< 1552429860 335660 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: combination of bad feelings about the code of conduct stuff and general burnout
< 1552429865 383342 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I can at least start blogging again
< 1552429903 890276 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's frustrating how coc's shelter abusive people
< 1552429947 206535 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a006c85e2af64192b74.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552429979 856249 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a006c85e2af64192b74.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552430012 124905 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i could just stop thinking about it
< 1552430040 350869 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a specific one ? something happened recently?
< 1552430044 162440 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1552430055 988756 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes specific, no not recently
< 1552430064 108201 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1552430091 348945 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was talking about it just now and I don't feel like going over it again because, as noted, I should think about it less
< 1552430155 388158 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just feeling really down today
< 1552430160 657453 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and talking about it often helps
< 1552431063 8930 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just really don't know how to make progress :(
< 1552431130 218463 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.200 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1552431135 294257 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a006c85e2af64192b74.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
< 1552431239 590491 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly, telling your nick is one of those tricks that I believe we can't teach to hackeso
< 1552431243 364304 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless that's changed recently
< 1552431549 616579 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackeso's software could easily stuff some of the IRC state to the environment or something, but no, it doesn't bother
< 1552431564 526698 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it definitely knows about IRC state because it puts it to the hg commit message
< 1552431570 470473 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, some of it
< 1552431602 499819 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can make `list
< 1552431644 775274 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1552431690 166467 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, I can't complain. I don't want to run one of these bots either. 
< 1552431703 541509 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: fizzie is considering adding the feature.
< 1552431816 218597 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you want like  `echo $NICK  to work?
< 1552431901 645738 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: something like that, though probably with some better names, so there's a shared prefix for all the IRC-related context
< 1552431916 546618 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was in fact going to use $NICK.
< 1552431924 949622 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like this is serious business.
< 1552431963 267650 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Previously, when we had logs access, there was the workaround of looking at the last few lines for the trigger. But that's not available in the current setup, and anyway it was racy.
< 1552431973 929336 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn #esoteric is serious business.
< 1552432120 847096 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The umlbox init has a way of setting environment variables, though the Python script part never puts that in the config file. So it needs a tiny umlbox patch to add a --env flag or something, and then another hackbot patch to use that to set the nick (and maybe some other state).
< 1552432137 314275 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: a common prefix would make all the hackeso-related environment variables more discoverable by users
< 1552432162 724698 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they could do, like, ``` echo "${!HACKESO_*}" to find them
< 1552432187 553704 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of shell wizardry is that
< 1552432202 815893 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :too advanced for me
< 1552432226 274731 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :env|grep
< 1552432244 341465 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: meh, `perl -efor (keys%ENV) { /^HACKESO_/ and print } # if you prefer
< 1552432258 263243 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not prefer
< 1552432260 741600 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, that needs separators
< 1552432269 718553 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so like `perl -efor (keys%ENV) { /^HACKESO_/ and print "$_ " }
< 1552432280 911889 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` echo "${!BASH*}"
< 1552432281 592176 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :BASH BASHOPTS BASHPID BASH_ALIASES BASH_ARGC BASH_ARGV BASH_CMDS BASH_COMMAND BASH_EXECUTION_STRING BASH_LINENO BASH_SOURCE BASH_SUBSHELL BASH_VERSINFO BASH_VERSION
< 1552432297 790495 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` echo "${!L[ACO]*}"
< 1552432298 479956 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1552432306 387776 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I miss knowing weird perl things
< 1552432314 792023 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo "${!L[ACO]*}"
< 1552432315 498036 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1552432317 559004 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1552432325 942181 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` locale
< 1552432327 431051 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :LANG=C \ LANGUAGE= \ LC_CTYPE="C" \ LC_NUMERIC="C" \ LC_TIME="C" \ LC_COLLATE="C" \ LC_MONETARY="C" \ LC_MESSAGES="C" \ LC_PAPER="C" \ LC_NAME="C" \ LC_ADDRESS="C" \ LC_TELEPHONE="C" \ LC_MEASUREMENT="C" \ LC_IDENTIFICATION="C" \ LC_ALL=
< 1552432330 831323 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1552432341 720599 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought we still had some locale-related stuff set
< 1552432343 394011 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` locale
< 1552432344 97965 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8 \ LANGUAGE= \ LC_CTYPE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_NUMERIC="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_TIME="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_COLLATE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MONETARY="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MESSAGES="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_PAPER="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_NAME="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_ADDRESS="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_TELEPHONE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MEASUREMENT="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_IDENTIFICATION="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_ALL=
< 1552432350 987688 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1552432362 424819 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :` echo "${!LC*}"
< 1552432363 52229 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found
< 1552432365 767538 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo "${!LC*}"
< 1552432366 504594 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1552432387 907622 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo "${!LA*}"
< 1552432388 611705 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :LANG
< 1552432392 137922 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo "${!L[ACO]*}"
< 1552432392 977612 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1552432396 44920 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1552432421 927437 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`env
< 1552432422 606357 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :HACKENV=/hackenv \ LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8 \ PWD=/hackenv \ HOME=/tmp \ http_proxy=http://127.0.0.1:3128 \ TERM=linux \ SHLVL=0 \ PATH=/hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin
< 1552432445 180343 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a bit too long to print in full
< 1552432454 288698 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` echo "${!*}"
< 1552432454 993459 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1552432458 366455 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1552432462 193192 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get how this works
< 1552432538 265032 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` echo "${!L@}"
< 1552432539 68498 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :LANG LINENO
< 1552432541 411919 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` echo "${!@}"
< 1552432542 80694 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1552432548 288376 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see
< 1552432552 167198 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all in the BASH manual
< 1552432569 586523 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, we already set a handful of environment variables. Looks like that doesn't actually go through umlbox init, but we instead just prefix an 'env' to the command.
< 1552432574 867301 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -e for (sort keys%ENV) { print "$_ " }
< 1552432575 453342 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :HACKENV HOME LANG PATH PWD SHLVL TERM http_proxy
< 1552432580 104642 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it's not that long
< 1552432587 7926 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` perl -e 'for (sort keys%ENV) { print "$_ " }'
< 1552432587 898686 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :HACKENV HOME LANG PATH PWD SHLVL TERM _ http_proxy
< 1552432608 505036 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The `env output was complete, if that's what the "bit too long" comment was referring to.
< 1552432613 617679 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` grep -ri hackego bin
< 1552432615 331953 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/echo:echo I AM HACKEGO! I AM THE VOID! PREPARE... TO DIE!
< 1552432632 910480 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, sorry
< 1552432636 799751 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I expected it to be longer
< 1552432645 698306 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dobg echo
< 1552432647 298256 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :3764:2013-09-13  rm bin/echo \ 3763:2013-09-13  chmod +x bin/echo \ 3762:2013-09-13  echo echo No output. > bin/echo \ 3557:2013-08-29  revert f6f3d9626c03 \ 3530:2013-08-29  chmod +x /hackenv/bin/echo \ 3529:2013-08-29  echo echo Cats are cool but should be made illegal. > /hackenv/bin/echo
< 1552432676 600426 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is rm the last commit?
< 1552432680 620390 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this a bad scowrev?
< 1552432705 149859 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hurl bin/echo
< 1552432706 16804 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/log/tip/bin/echo
< 1552432718 637761 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no, bin/echo just doesn't exist I think. not that it matters, I invoke the shell builtin. you could override it from "bin/``"
< 1552432721 535152 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am confusil.
< 1552432734 139251 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` du bin/echo
< 1552432734 848880 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :du: cannot access 'bin/echo': No such file or directory
< 1552432740 331906 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, how did grep find it?
< 1552432742 61508 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` du bin/ping
< 1552432743 4468 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :4	bin/ping
< 1552432758 881491 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` grep -ri hackego bin
< 1552432760 577225 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/echo:echo I AM HACKEGO! I AM THE VOID! PREPARE... TO DIE!
< 1552432763 333025 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` grep -i hackego bin/echo
< 1552432764 72857 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep: bin/echo: No such file or directory
< 1552432788 103107 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` grep -l HACKEGO bin | cat -A
< 1552432788 761351 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep: bin: Is a directory
< 1552432793 885305 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` grep -Rl HACKEGO bin | cat -A
< 1552432794 764566 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/^B^Becho$
< 1552432799 709432 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1552432827 295907 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1552432837 339254 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` dobg echo
< 1552432839 70087 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :3800:2013-09-18  chmod +x bin/\x02\x02echo \ 3799:2013-09-18  echo "echo I AM HACKEGO! I AM THE VOID! PREPARE... TO DIE!" > bin/\x02\x02echo
< 1552432852 98153 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :PATH, TERM and HOME are set by umlbox. Our 'sandbox' script resets path (actually, to a rather wrong value) and adds HACKENV and http_proxy. PWD and SHLVL and _ are presumably from the shell. I can't remember where LANG is getting set.
< 1552432855 92986 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo echo
< 1552432855 704859 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM HACKEGO! I AM THE VOID! PREPARE... TO DIE!
< 1552432865 434346 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm bin/echo
< 1552432867 40783 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1552432870 49694 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` echo "$PATH"
< 1552432870 712677 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin
< 1552432870 975067 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hack the ego, patch the soul
< 1552432875 578778 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls bin/**
< 1552432876 340772 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/welcome
< 1552432877 889134 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls bin/**
< 1552432878 749564 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/ \ bin/04w08e09l11c12o13m04e \ bin/8ball
< 1552432884 314859 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would the right value be?
< 1552432927 959371 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rigth value wouldn't include /opt/ghc/bin or /opt/python27/bin because there are nothing at those paths.
< 1552432943 805186 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess /hackenv/bin:/usr/bin:/bin minimally.
< 1552432949 154076 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` printf "%b" bin/*$'\x02'* 
< 1552432949 836611 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/welcome
< 1552432957 837146 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` printf "%q" bin/*$'\x02'* 
< 1552432958 594670 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​$'bin/\002welcome'
< 1552433066 488631 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I don't know if I should reuse the existing env command from the 'sandbox' wrapper, or finish adding the umlbox feature to set variables via init.
< 1552433174 484920 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` $'\x0F'
< 1552433175 405815 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :229)  Phantom_Hoover: I have just one tvtropes page open in elinks, but my tvtropes.txt "queue" has 38 tvtropes.org URLs waiting for processing.
< 1552433200 644745 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` cat bin/$'\x0F'
< 1552433201 318052 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/bash \ cmd="${1-quote}" \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ eval -- "$cmd" | rnoooooooodl
< 1552433237 574198 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls -l bin/$'\x0F'
< 1552433238 430871 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :lrwxrwxrwx 1 1000 1000 1 Jul  8  2017 bin/ -> `
< 1552433242 77491 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa
< 1552433242 811044 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :``
< 1552433243 574345 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1240)  do we seriously not do quotes any more?
< 1552433272 86913 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` cat bin/$'\x16'
< 1552433272 825235 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1552433281 739480 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` echo bin/$'\x16'*
< 1552433283 386180 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/ bin/ bin/echo
< 1552433291 695873 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, there's three of those
< 1552433315 121769 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/
< 1552433315 710467 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1552433316 265272 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -we opendir $d,"bin" or die; for (sort readdir$d) { if (!/\A[!-~]+\z/) { $o=$_=~s/[^ -z]/sprintf"{%02X}",ord$&/ger; print "$o "; } }
< 1552433316 975472 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​{02}welcome {03}04w{03}08e{03}09l{03}11c{03}12o{03}13m{03}04e{0F} {0F} {16} {16}{16}{16} {16}{16}echo 8{0F}ball `{CC}{80} d{C3}{B6}ts qu{C3}{B8}rjan r{C3}{A8}sum{C3}{A8} v{C3}{A4}lkommen wisd{C3}{B6}m {C2}{BF} {C3}{BC}ml{C3}{A4}{C3}{BC}t {CE}{BF}{CF}{85}{CE}{B5}{CE}{BB}{CE}{BA}{CE}{BF}{CE}{BC}{CE}{B5} {D0}{B4}{D0}{BE}{D0}{B1}{D1}{80}{D0}{BE}-{D0}{BF}{D0}{BE}{D0}{B6}{D0}{B0}{D0}{BB}{D0}{BE}{D0}{B2}{D0}{B0}{D1}{82}{D1}{8C} {D8}{9F} {E2}{81}{97}
< 1552433407 300830 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -we use Encode; opendir $d,"bin" or die; for (sort readdir$d) { if (!/\A[!-~]+\z/) { $o=decode_utf8($_)=~s/[^ -z]/sprintf"{%02X}",ord$&/ger; print "$o "; } } print "~"
< 1552433409 440222 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​{02}welcome {03}04w{03}08e{03}09l{03}11c{03}12o{03}13m{03}04e{0F} {0F} {16} {16}{16}{16} {16}{16}echo 8{0F}ball `{300} d{F6}ts qu{F8}rjan r{E8}sum{E8} v{E4}lkommen wisd{F6}m {BF} {FC}ml{E4}{FC}t {3BF}{3C5}{3B5}{3BB}{3BA}{3BF}{3BC}{3B5} {434}{43E}{431}{440}{43E}-{43F}{43E}{436}{430}{43B}{43E}{432}{430}{442}{44C} {61F} {2057} ~
< 1552433448 166462 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` cat $'`\xCC\x80'
< 1552433448 807428 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: '`'$'\314\200': No such file or directory
< 1552433452 573031 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` cat bin/$'`\xCC\x80'
< 1552433453 246692 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo "This should probably do something, but it does not."
< 1552433479 330516 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :cc 80?
< 1552433482 531076 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't that be cd 80?
< 1552433491 629683 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`¿
< 1552433492 906166 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​¯/)o_​°(\¯ ?
< 1552433582 118241 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`¿ C
< 1552433583 753485 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tluaf noitatnemgeS��.�דIW>�V��fo egaugnal eht si C
< 1552433597 825908 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`¿ rules of wisdom
< 1552433598 976639 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ noitautcnup dna noitazilatipac reporp esu dna ,taht erofeb ecaps on htiw enilwen a ni dne dna decaps elgnis eb ,yek pukool eht tuohtiw elbadnatsrednu eb  :dluohs yeht ,romuh s‘yrtne eht rof laitnesse sselnu
< 1552433643 791704 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :laitnesse
< 1552433656 286771 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? rules of wisdom
< 1552433657 286256 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless essential for the entry‘s humor, they should:  be understandable without the lookup key, be single spaced and end in a newline with no space before that, and use proper capitalization and punctuation
< 1552433704 725449 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552433708 711250 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hotyhslugsbpigkh JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552433753 248475 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` cat $'bin/\x61F'
< 1552433753 966690 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: bin/aF: No such file or directory
< 1552433760 96241 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` cat $'bin/\xD8\x9F'
< 1552433760 785347 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​\? "$@" | rev
< 1552433986 257876 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1552434936 986643 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-176.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1552435601 760914 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552435795 745519 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1552435871 252217 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552436065 725419 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1552436085 308025 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo hello your name is $IRC_NICK  # turns out there was multibot precedence for this name, I just propagated it
< 1552436085 981479 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello your name is fizzie
< 1552436222 21486 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O
< 1552436241 468097 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo $IRC_NICK is the cutest girl in the world
< 1552436242 121352 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc is the cutest girl in the world
< 1552436244 99813 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O
< 1552436247 383214 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why thank you HackEso 
< 1552436258 433134 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552436268 986739 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` env | grep IRC
< 1552436269 728673 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC_NICK=shachaf
< 1552436277 730816 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo what about the rest of the message
< 1552436279 605956 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` env | grep kmc
< 1552436280 314627 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC_NICK=kmc
< 1552436319 418563 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`mkx bin/whoami//echo $IRC_NICK
< 1552436321 95061 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/whoami
< 1552436341 734534 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` /usr/bin/whoami  # the official one wasn't very useful anyway
< 1552436342 489756 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/usr/bin/whoami: cannot find name for user ID 1000: No such file or directory
< 1552436386 749463 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1552436403 982819 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1552437533 227858 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:*)(:*)(a)~^~(^)~^*(~S:^):^
< 1552437533 309082 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aa^^ ...out of stack!
< 1552437569 563888 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552437595 274650 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:*)(:*)(a)~^~(^)~^*(((:):)())~*^(~S:^):^
< 1552437595 357696 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:): ...out of stack!
< 1552437612 885091 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:*)(:*)(a)~^~(^)~^*(((:):)())~*^^(~S:^):^
< 1552437612 924703 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:): ...out of stack!
< 1552437636 691790 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:*)(:*)(a)~^~(^)~^*(((:):)())~*^^^(~S:^):^
< 1552437636 731502 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: ...out of stack!
< 1552437650 66778 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm oh.
< 1552437657 696099 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:*)(:*)(a)~^~(^)~^*(((:):)())~*^^^(~aS:^):^
< 1552437657 735782 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:)(:) ...out of stack!
< 1552437667 474130 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:*)(:*)(a)~^~(^)~^*(((:):)())~*^^(~aS:^):^
< 1552437667 513620 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :((:):) ...out of stack!
< 1552437679 473809 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (::**)(:*)(a)~^~(^)~^*(((:):)())~*^^(~aS:^):^
< 1552437679 513508 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:)(:) ...out of stack!
< 1552437689 48279 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (::**)(:::***)(a)~^~(^)~^*(((:):)())~*^^(~aS:^):^
< 1552437689 87428 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :()((:):) ...out of stack!
< 1552437755 677233 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (::**)(:::***)(a)~^~(^)~^*(((=)S)((!=)S)((:):)())~*^^!!^
< 1552437755 757181 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!=
< 1552437763 99475 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:::***)(:::***)(a)~^~(^)~^*(((=)S)((!=)S)((:):)())~*^^!!^
< 1552437763 139340 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :=
< 1552438256 244428 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((==)S)((!=)S)((:):)()(:::***)(:::***)(a)~^~(^)~^*^^!!^
< 1552438256 325068 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :==
< 1552438304 788666 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((==)S)((!=)S)((:):)()(:::***)(:::***)(a)~^~(^)~^^!!^
< 1552438304 828094 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!=
< 1552438307 750471 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1552438330 4194 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((==)S)((!=)S)((:):)()(:::***)(:::***)(a)~^~(^)~^^^!!^
< 1552438330 43950 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!=
< 1552438334 269100 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((==)S)((!=)S)((:):)()(:::***)(:::***)(a)~^~(^)~^^^^!!^
< 1552438334 308534 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :==
< 1552438372 657261 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((==)S)((!=)S)(:):(:::***)(:::***)(a)~^~(^)~^^^^!!^
< 1552438372 736888 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!=
< 1552438396 525923 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((==)S)((!=)S)(:):(:::***)(:::***)(a)~^~(^)~^^^!!^
< 1552438396 565413 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!=
< 1552438420 543644 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should `list be adapted to use whoami?
< 1552438436 572731 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1552438447 335323 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`whoami
< 1552438448 636614 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc
< 1552438465 393719 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, mi?
< 1552438479 647063 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi kmc
< 1552438481 953671 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((==)S)((!=)S)(:):(:::***)(:::***)(a)~^~(^)~^^!!^
< 1552438481 993149 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!=
< 1552438490 34569 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hichaf
< 1552438493 542207 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`WeLcOmE kmc
< 1552438494 758310 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :KmC: wElCoMe tO ThE InTeRnAtIoNaL HuB FoR EsOtErIc pRoGrAmMiNg lAnGuAgE DeSiGn aNd dEpLoYmEnT! fOr mOrE InFoRmAtIoN, cHeCk oUt oUr wIkI: . (fOr tHe oThEr kInD Of eSoTeRiCa, TrY #eSoTeRiC On eFnEt oR DaLnEt.)
< 1552438495 565278 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right duh
< 1552438502 833363 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome shachaf 
< 1552438504 54318 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​13shachaf: 04Welcome 07to 08the 09international 02hub 06for 13esoteric 04programming 07language 08design 09and 02deployment! 06For 13more 04information, 07check 08out 09our 02wiki: 06. 13(For 04the 07other 08kind 09of 02esoterica, 06try 13#esoteric 04on 07EFnet 08or 09DALnet.)
< 1552438511 435099 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`tervetuloa kmc
< 1552438512 536011 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Tervetuloa esoteeristen ohjelmointikielten suunnittelun ja käyttöönoton kansainväliseen keskukseen! Lisätietoa saat wikistämme: . (Muu esoteerisuus: kokeile kanavaa #esoteric joko EFnet- tai Dalnet-verkossa.)
< 1552438555 914168 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"VAROITUS: Tamä tuote sisältää ja sitä poltettaessa siltä erityy kemikaaleja, joiden on Kalifornian osavaltiossa todettu aiheuttavan syöpää ja sikiön epämuodostumia tai muita lisääntymiskykyyn 
< 1552438560 13417 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :littyviä vaurioita."
< 1552438593 103344 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääääää
< 1552438595 54223 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alavilla mailla hallan vaara, älä rääkkää sitä kääkkää.
< 1552438612 576977 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ברוכים הבאים
< 1552438613 145578 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ברוכים: not found
< 1552438633 393936 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a tongue twister?
< 1552438641 24729 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`which \`
< 1552438641 370100 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're the canonical most and least beautiful sentences of Finnish, according to someone.
< 1552438641 581703 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1552438660 346362 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --finnish 15
< 1552438661 211676 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :muillesi voisekonotkaamissamme korostamasi jyräävä seltuaalisempaan pilkupakkaamme alkamaltasi tuhoukkivälit holle kauemporummat kielialiltanhua tasi turvat ulstressa odostanne
< 1552438678 786932 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :regular finnish is tongue twisty enough for me
< 1552438681 594890 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :google thinks the first half is Malayalam
< 1552438691 986087 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it sounds rather nicer when text-to-spoken as such
< 1552438700 937066 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not bad in terms of % of real words this time: muillesi, korostamasi, jyräävä, turvat.
< 1552438706 737020 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"älä rääkkää sitä kääkkää" could only be finnish
< 1552438707 66741 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually there's just one or two.
< 1552438724 210179 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holle's long-tailed drumsticks for you!
< 1552438727 626377 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Don't torture that old crone", basically.
< 1552438740 626793 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hollow drops of the hollow-spotted tongue cups for Holle that we emphasized for others
< 1552438748 479227 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ensin sinä sitten minä
< 1552438809 960954 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, ok, this is too good: https://i.imgur.com/B0Nfc1a.png
< 1552438834 998743 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am just removing words from the end one by one
< 1552438840 629000 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :next is "the rumbling spheres we've been stressing to others for our more stellar backside"
< 1552438852 166058 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"your crunchy belligerent bundle that you emphasized to others"
< 1552438857 402054 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit hard to reason out how it got that.
< 1552438884 246220 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? king
< 1552438885 264863 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :king? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1552438886 317763 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? fizzie
< 1552438887 314317 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the sneaky king of #esoteric, see https://zem.fi/static/img/square_fizzie_320px_white.jpg
< 1552438894 405521 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: are you actually sneaky twh
< 1552438907 587110 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a more stellar backside
< 1552438930 444753 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think not, I probably must've just edited a file in a query around the time that got added.
< 1552438954 712861 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg fizzie
< 1552438956 654993 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :11495:2018-04-12  ` hg cat -r 10000 wisdom/fizzie > wisdom/fizzie \ 11493:2018-04-12  slwd fizzie//s.prime minister.emperor. \ 11286:2017-12-28  slwd fizzie//s/\\bfi/Fi/ \ 11285:2017-12-25  slwd fizzie//s/^/King / \ 10285:2017-02-16  revert \ 10284:2017-02-16 <\oren̈\> slwd fizzie//s/$/ He never remembers w\'s./ \ 10241:2017-02-13  slwd fizzie//s.king.prime minister. \ 10201:2017-02-01  slwd fizzie//s. k. canary k. \ 8869:2016-07-28  slwd fizzie//s#http.*#https://zem.fi/static/img/square_fizzie_320px_white.jpg# \ 8168:2016-05-25  ` sed -i \'s/k/sneaky k/\' wisdom/fizzie \ 4999:2014-10-02  revert 4969 \ 4984:2014-09-30  learn_append fizzie Fizzie is a bot controlled by fungot. \ 4249:2013-12-30  learn fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the king of #esoteric, see http://codu
< 1552438999 618444 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/logs/2016-05.html#l1kg
< 1552439018 357744 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: are you sure it's not a black hole hth
< 1552439018 948140 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :netcraft confirms it
< 1552439021 913551 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`slwd fizzie//s/sneaky //
< 1552439023 661427 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie//fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the king of #esoteric, see https://zem.fi/static/img/square_fizzie_320px_white.jpg
< 1552439037 744681 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, no
< 1552439043 386669 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was about the mv trick.
< 1552439052 975127 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's sneaky after all.
< 1552439078 672686 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachääf
< 1552439112 519486 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kiigän
< 1552439153 852780 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --hebrew 15
< 1552439154 898717 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​התבל ללבו ויתרת ימים דבש וכו מונה האשמורו מורת שהבני לגל ולהעבדו כמפנ המוזלי כשתית
< 1552439211 564513 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hebrew is p. dense
< 1552439212 566020 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's tg
< 1552439274 375777 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that because the vowels are not written
< 1552439282 891251 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably has to do with it?
< 1552439308 292283 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :books translated into hebrew are noticeably shorter if i remember correcctly
< 1552439332 704874 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably chinese or something is even better
< 1552439343 150559 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the alphabet is much larger
> 1552439394 886262 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03A 5*  10uploaded "[[02File:Scratch(3.0).png10]]": Deadfish
< 1552439400 231065 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm playing with my fidget cube
< 1552439401 189438 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's tg
> 1552439469 709166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deadfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60481&oldid=59790 5* 03A 5* (+44) 10/* The language defined by the Revised Revised Revised Revised Revised Report on the Algorithmic Language Scheme */
> 1552439524 427438 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 overwrite10 02 5* 03A 5*  10uploaded a new version of "[[02File:Scratch(3.0).png10]]"
< 1552439721 793340 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
< 1552440624 242438 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552441493 310982 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hotyhslugsbpigkh QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1552442581 999030 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo $PATH  # cleanups
< 1552442582 754993 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin:/usr/bin:/bin
< 1552442766 410725 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am considering doing something sneaky and evil
< 1552442770 505862 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :should i do it y/n
< 1552442829 532242 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably
< 1552442831 913459 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it, though
< 1552442888 282276 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't be sneaky if i told you
< 1552443106 972089 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1552443113 760711 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :will this affect me
< 1552443202 263550 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not
< 1552443207 777706 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am overstating it
< 1552443213 724002 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :will hugs affect you
< 1552443221 11433 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo yes
< 1552443677 905314 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting
< 1552443814 812324 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :A cafe nearby had an advertising sign (advertisign?) outside, and at the bottom it said "hugs are free", and I got puzzled about whether that was a general statement or if they're actually hugging their customers.
< 1552443833 958595 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :means don't tip with a hug.
< 1552443911 300680 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's possible, it just didn't seem likely from the context. Anyway, people don't usually tip at coffee shops here.
< 1552444074 875620 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo go in and ask for a hug
< 1552444369 344099 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO tipping is weird
< 1552444913 557082 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1552444929 359530 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :american tipping culture is really bad
< 1552445084 714205 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is scow
< 1552445237 63502 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially the part where employers can count tips as part of minimum wage :(
< 1552445277 786156 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in california
< 1552445324 994239 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CO's setup for that is weird. Tipped wage is $2.02/hour below non-tipped minimum.
< 1552445338 354133 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's a constant figure.
< 1552445376 728887 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, $3.02
< 1552445426 561497 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(minimum wage is $11.10/hr, going to $12/hr next year, after which point it will be pegged to inflation)
< 1552445804 530410 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: also you should come to san francisco and hug me sometime
< 1552445865 553994 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you come to Denver I will have hugs on tap.
< 1552445872 268386 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hooray!
< 1552445874 59318 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just might
< 1552445880 689923 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact there's some chance I'll move to the area
< 1552445906 994406 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoo
< 1552445916 86114 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unclear, but it's under consideration
< 1552446048 89850 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was in Denver and didn't find any hugs there.
< 1552446063 399340 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly I wasn't there for very long. And I think you were in California at the time.
< 1552446148 433740 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably.
< 1552446159 872684 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm technically not in Denver yet.
< 1552446172 91321 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm moving up there in about a month.
< 1552446182 24636 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that said, I'm about 60 miles south of there, so...)
< 1552446264 413398 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo berkeley is closer than denver and possibly has more hugs per capita
< 1552446367 774351 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Denver's still in reasonable travel distance of family.
< 1552446547 125223 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'm kinda trying to move to be _close_ to the office...
< 1552446568 375660 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant for kmc
< 1552446580 523996 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug*
< 1552446593 662762 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the goal is hugs
< 1552446606 570596 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: do you know other people in berkeley who will hug me?
< 1552446607 545931 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is admittedly a valiant goal.
< 1552446619 633968 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, probably?
< 1552446700 792894 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :gUd aftRnUn evrEwun! is nO dEl breksit upon us? hW sUn wil nO?
< 1552446832 471653 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're voting on no deal tomorrow, though just a moment ago my newsfeed said it might still happen even if they vote no for no deal.
< 1552446850 407769 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it boils down to "it's all messed up".
< 1552446897 151883 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wel yes bEcuz Du E.yU. has tU agrE tU
< 1552446908 881747 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has been my impression for some time
< 1552447107 463825 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. No deal is what happens if the UK just fails to take action at this point.
< 1552447150 601361 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And given the past couple of years in UK politics, I dare say that's the safe bet.
< 1552447535 288921 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, is there a prediction market contract for no-deal brexit?
< 1552447537 158551 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't find one
< 1552447563 755330 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair question, actually. Hmm.
< 1552448054 238730 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.153694387
< 1552448138 381755 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what tf do all these numbers mean
< 1552448345 350384 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.livetipsportal.com/en/betting-strategies/back-lay/
< 1552448349 633413 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure why they make it so complicated
< 1552448425 88883 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's just the inverse of the probability?
< 1552448553 630270 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I guess the other numbers are the bid and ask sizes at other prices?
< 1552449601 528329 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Quit: Laa shay'a waqi'un moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine
< 1552449772 413435 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552452613 978305 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552452802 246950 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1552453938 434826 :adu!~arobbins@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: adu
> 1552453946 141351 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60483&oldid=60345 5* 03Ais523 5* (+706) 10some bugs in the Deadfish-in-Scratch implementation
< 1552458349 998022 :tromp!~tromp@217.103.3.94 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552460646 779277 :adu!~arobbins@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552460674 703521 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552460767 687224 :adu!~arobbins@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Client Quit
< 1552460932 698158 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1552461266 697054 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552461542 697706 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1552461643 268803 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1552462536 401666 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552464427 156474 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552465460 731081 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552468537 66623 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552468705 505968 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552469591 190642 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: nice! though I was hoping for the full sender and receiving channel/nick too, although of course there are ways to abuse that with sneaky commands that behave differently in private message than on the channel
< 1552469593 39326 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`whoami
< 1552469593 881797 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas
< 1552469627 642653 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` perl -e'print reverse $ENV{IRC_NICK}'
< 1552469628 344338 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas
< 1552469636 299472 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` perl -e'print "".reverse $ENV{IRC_NICK}'
< 1552469637 41182 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sanoj_bow
< 1552471474 939409 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess now we could make a subscribe macro that appends you to a list
< 1552476735 705100 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.200 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552479542 441327 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552479613 549071 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1552479686 758123 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1552479992 115169 :lolol!c1be7c01@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.190.124.1 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552480276 132663 :lolol!c1be7c01@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.190.124.1 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1552482143 526302 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1552482612 130161 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552482987 124826 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1552483123 663655 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: The receiving side needs a patch in multibot, which I don't currently have a fork of. But I could easily propagate multibot's IRC_IDENT and IRC_HOST variables to the sandbox as well.
< 1552483276 99878 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The exact semantics of those are: IRC_NICK is the incoming message's prefix with the leading ':' and any characters after the first '!' removed; IRC_IDENT is either empty or the characters from the first '!' to the first '@' after that; and IRC_HOST is either empty or the characters after the '@' from the previous step.
< 1552483498 906960 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo $IRC_NICK $IRC_IDENT $IRC_HOST  # <- wob_jonas
< 1552483499 588955 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie fis unaffiliated/fizzie
< 1552483730 495497 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` whoami; whoami -v
< 1552483731 386539 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie \ fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie
< 1552483820 517905 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
> 1552483942 866426 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03A 5*  10uploaded "[[02File:Truth-machine.JPG10]]": Truth-machine
> 1552484004 828194 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60485&oldid=60310 5* 03A 5* (+49) 10/* Sceql */
> 1552484017 481515 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60486&oldid=60485 5* 03A 5* (-4) 10
< 1552484031 360943 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ok, but how about also the message target, which is usually either #esoteric or HackEso ?
< 1552484062 302807 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whcih is the first parameter after the PRIVMSG or NOTICE
< 1552484240 35425 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's the part that's not available to a running multibot command.
< 1552484316 752098 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :multibot itself obviously has it, but it's only used (after a fashion) to determine the name of the script/executable to run, not exported in an environment variable.
< 1552484336 381192 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in
< 1552484358 125192 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552484363 597725 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can add it (probably as IRC_TARGET), but not while I'm supposed to be working, because it involves forking the multibot repo to make changes on that level.
> 1552484433 777649 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 overwrite10 02 5* 03A 5*  10uploaded a new version of "[[02File:Scratch(3.0).png10]]": Fix bugs
> 1552484505 709802 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 overwrite10 02 5* 03A 5*  10uploaded a new version of "[[02File:Scratch(3.0).png10]]": Fix that again :(
< 1552485188 123714 :adu!~arobbins@pool-68-134-14-43.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552485188 123767 :adu!~arobbins@pool-68-134-14-43.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Client Quit
< 1552485360 782930 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552485389 718835 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded
> 1552485449 137258 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60489&oldid=60483 5* 03A 5* (-783) 10Clear talk page
< 1552485800 295365 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552488137 75260 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I see.
< 1552488156 814029 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`whoami -v
< 1552488157 457360 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209
< 1552488162 922020 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` cat bin/whoami
< 1552488163 643653 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo -n $IRC_NICK; if [[ "$1" == "-v" && -n "$IRC_IDENT" ]]; then echo -n "!$IRC_IDENT"; if [[ -n "$IRC_HOST" ]]; then echo -n "@$IRC_HOST"; fi; fi; echo
< 1552490262 770010 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552490447 957721 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1552490792 433631 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552491573 439450 :david777!~david@59.103.63.35 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552491632 982125 :david777!~david@59.103.63.35 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1552491671 709695 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qaokdebnotabzibo JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552492447 556722 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552493381 391075 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552494268 943495 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552494704 958292 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552496407 900226 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1552498138 709025 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1552498583 452464 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-radnsaguxbrmkavs JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552499296 291287 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.4
< 1552499439 529152 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0088060777f8529483.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552499604 108584 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0088060777f8529483.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552500496 114410 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1552500905 276561 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552500905 357022 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host
< 1552500905 357061 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552501597 580323 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0038d6f674388c9cec.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552502034 629457 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today's "duh" moment: if you parse a bunch of bytes as proto X and rely on the idea that surely it'll throw some sort of exception if that's actually a message of type Y, you may end up spending a few hours (this thing is slow to run) figuring out why that stuff you see in the byte[] just won't seem to go in the proto.
< 1552502130 671681 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(An InvalidProtocolBufferException will only get thrown if the incoming message has a set field that has a type that conflicts with the parsed-as proto; for all field numbers that don't exist the protobuf runtime will just go "huh, this is probably from some future version of X, I'll be forwards-compatible and ignore it".)
< 1552502451 508350 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qaokdebnotabzibo QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1552504398 686804 :LKoen_!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a005ddfdc348c71f70a.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552504605 515027 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0038d6f674388c9cec.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1552505134 946200 :LKoen_!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a005ddfdc348c71f70a.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552506365 686221 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-radnsaguxbrmkavs QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1552508119 982259 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552511001 588863 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-52.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552511041 962371 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-52.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: have you decided yet whether you'll join HackEso to #esoteric-blah ?
< 1552511107 685924 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-52.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no, `list shouldn't be adapted to use whoami. the whole point of list is that it makes it impossible to just remove you from the list, without changing the source code
< 1552511131 589850 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-52.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't just put nicks to a file. if it did that, people would just remove themselves afterwards by editing that file or reverting.
< 1552511154 292996 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-52.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't do that, the way it's implemented. you'd have to mess with its source code to remove you.
< 1552511158 48237 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-52.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or with scowrevs I think.
> 1552511198 818842 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Featured languages/Candidates14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60490&oldid=60293 5* 03Camto 5* (+804) 10Suggest Underload.
< 1552511308 790433 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-52.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that reminds me. who asked about rubik's cubes, and have you ordered one yet?
< 1552511920 24376 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552512114 739652 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1552513540 243804 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:::***)(:::***)(a)~^~(^)~^*(((==)S)(!(<)S)(!(!(>)S)(:):)())~*^^!!^
< 1552513540 325090 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :==
< 1552513550 671421 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (::**)(:::***)(a)~^~(^)~^*(((==)S)(!(<)S)(!(!(>)S)(:):)())~*^^!!^
< 1552513550 753192 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<
< 1552513560 248087 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (::**)(:*)(a)~^~(^)~^*(((==)S)(!(<)S)(!(!(>)S)(:):)())~*^^!!^
< 1552513560 287532 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :>
< 1552513909 465654 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (::**)(:*)(a)~^~(^)~^*(((==)S)(!(<)S)(!(!(>)S)(:):)())~*^^!!^(aS:^):^
< 1552513909 548954 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :>(aS:^) ...out of stack!
< 1552513926 896577 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1552513937 774967 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (::**)(:*)(a)~^~(^)~^*(((==)S)(!(<)S)(!(!(>)S)(:):)())~*^^!!^(~aS:^):^
< 1552513937 856930 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ...out of stack!
< 1552513949 52012 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (::**)(::**)(a)~^~(^)~^*(((==)S)(!(<)S)(!(!(>)S)(:):)())~*^^!!^(~aS:^):^
< 1552513949 91422 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :== ...out of stack!
< 1552513958 256776 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:*)(::**)(a)~^~(^)~^*(((==)S)(!(<)S)(!(!(>)S)(:):)())~*^^!!^(~aS:^):^
< 1552513958 296597 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :< ...out of stack!
< 1552514080 893863 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-52.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` rustc --versions
< 1552514081 600965 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: rustc: command not found
< 1552514571 548364 :bobby!~Bob@76.202.115.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1552514683 265069 :bobby!~Bob@76.202.115.164 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552514844 129597 :nykebarz!2f0b4f0d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.47.11.79.13 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552514846 946893 :nykebarz!2f0b4f0d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.47.11.79.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello!
< 1552514867 525341 :nykebarz!2f0b4f0d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.47.11.79.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guys, what language uses just ".?!"
< 1552514998 879634 :nykebarz!2f0b4f0d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.47.11.79.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nevermind! I got it!
< 1552515003 80922 :nykebarz!2f0b4f0d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.47.11.79.13 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1552515077 202913 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( Ook! minus Ook )
< 1552515111 57971 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh.
< 1552515139 668512 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552515155 643989 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... https://esolangs.org/wiki/Blub ... really.
< 1552515546 383786 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would have been nice to hear the answer. But "Ook! minus Ook" seems to exist, so I'll stick to that guess: https://www.dcode.fr/ook-language ("In order to shorten writing and avoid multiples Ook, the code is sometimes simplified (by removing the Ook) [...]")
< 1552515818 444451 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-52.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: wouldn't that work by still writing one Ook followed by all the punctuation though, the theory being that an orangutan would be able to pronounce a single Ook expressively enough? 
< 1552516088 740289 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :........!?.?................?.!!?!.?!.!.!.
< 1552516120 343815 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, I meant ........!?.?................?.!!?!.?..!.!.!.
< 1552516336 680457 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.200 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1552516406 814748 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving...
< 1552516418 845405 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-52.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -e %m=("..",'$m[$s]++',"!!",'$m[$s]--',".?",'$m++',"?.",'$m--',"!.",'print chr$m[$s]',"!?",'while($m[$s]){',"?!",'}');$m{ while("........!?.?................?.!!?!.?..!.!.!."=~/(..)/){print(($m{$1}//die"what$1"),"; ");}
< 1552516419 501532 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax error at -e line 1, near "{ while" \ Missing right curly or square bracket at -e line 1, at end of line \ Execution of -e aborted due to compilation errors.
< 1552516455 191334 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-52.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -e %m=("..",'$m[$s]++',"!!",'$m[$s]--',".?",'$m++',"?.",'$m--',"!.",'print chr$m[$s]',"!?",'while($m[$s]){',"?!",'}'); while("........!?.?................?.!!?!.?..!.!.!."=~/(..)/g){print(($m{$1}//die"what$1"),"; ");}
< 1552516455 981747 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​$m[$s]++; $m[$s]++; $m[$s]++; $m[$s]++; while($m[$s]){; $m++; $m[$s]++; $m[$s]++; $m[$s]++; $m[$s]++; $m[$s]++; $m[$s]++; $m[$s]++; $m[$s]++; $m--; $m[$s]--; }; $m++; $m[$s]++; print chr$m[$s]; print chr$m[$s]; print chr$m[$s];
< 1552516480 890831 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-52.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -e %m=("..",'$m[$s]++',"!!",'$m[$s]--',".?",'$m++',"?.",'$m--',"!.",'print chr$m[$s]',"!?",'while($m[$s]){',"?!",'}'); while("........!?.?................?.!!?!.?..!.!.!."=~/(..)/g){ $f.=(($m{$1}//die"what$1"),"; "); } eval$f;
< 1552516481 556667 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1552516555 91421 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-52.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -e %m=("..",'$m[$s]++',"!!",'$m[$s]--',".?",'$m++',"?.",'$m--',"!.",'print chr$m[$s]',"!?",'while($m[$s]){',"?!",'}'); while("........!?.?................?.!!?!.?..!.!.!."=~/(..)/g){ $f.=(($m{$1}//die"what$1"),';print"['.$1.':$s:$m[$s]]"; '); } eval$f;
< 1552516555 802733 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[..::][..::][..::][..::][!?::][.?::][..::][..::][..::][..::][..::][..::][..::][..::][?.::][!!::][?!::][.?::][..::][!.::][!.::][!.::]
< 1552516571 738445 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-52.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -e %m=("..",'$m[$s]++',"!!",'$m[$s]--',".?",'$m++',"?.",'$m--',"!.",'print chr$m[$s]',"!?",'while($m[$s]){',"?!",'}'); while("........!?.?................?.!!?!.?..!.!.!."=~/(..)/g){ $f.=(($m{$1}//die"what$1"),';print"['.$1.':$s:$m[$s]]"; '); } $s=@m=0; eval$f;
< 1552516572 400869 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[..:1:][..:1:][..:1:][..:1:][!?:1:][.?:1:][..:1:][..:1:][..:1:][..:1:][..:1:][..:1:][..:1:][..:1:][?.:1:][!!:1:][?!:1:][.?:1:][..:1:][!.:1:][!.:1:][!.:1:]
< 1552516593 924172 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-52.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -e %m=("..",'$m[$s]++',"!!",'$m[$s]--',".?",'$m++',"?.",'$m--',"!.",'print chr$m[$s]',"!?",'while($m[$s]){',"?!",'}'); while("........!?.?................?.!!?!.?..!.!.!."=~/(..)/g){ $f.=(($m{$1}//die"what$1"),';print"['.$1.':$s:$m[$s]]"; '); } $s=@m=0; eval$f; print'[STOP]';
< 1552516594 654010 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[..:1:][..:1:][..:1:][..:1:][!?:1:][.?:1:][..:1:][..:1:][..:1:][..:1:][..:1:][..:1:][..:1:][..:1:][?.:1:][!!:1:][?!:1:][.?:1:][..:1:][!.:1:][!.:1:][!.:1:][STOP]
< 1552516633 833770 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-52.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -e %m=("..",'$m[$s]++',"!!",'$m[$s]--',".?",'$m++',"?.",'$m--',"!.",'print chr$m[$s]',"!?",'while($m[$s]){',"?!",'}'); while("........!?.?................?.!!?!.?..!.!.!."=~/(..)/g){ $f.=(($k{$1}//die"what$1"),';print"['.$1.':$s:$m[$s]]"; '); } $s=@m=0; eval$f; print'[STOP]';
< 1552516634 461666 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what.. at -e line 1.
< 1552516646 921239 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-52.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -e %m=("..",'$m[$s]++',"!!",'$m[$s]--',".?",'$m++',"?.",'$m--',"!.",'print $m[$s]',"!?",'while($m[$s]){',"?!",'}'); while("........!?.?................?.!!?!.?..!.!.!."=~/(..)/g){ $f.=(($m{$1}//die"what$1"),';print"['.$1.':$s:$m[$s]]"; '); } $s=@m=0; eval$f; print'[STOP]';
< 1552516647 473070 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[..:1:][..:1:][..:1:][..:1:][!?:1:][.?:1:][..:1:][..:1:][..:1:][..:1:][..:1:][..:1:][..:1:][..:1:][?.:1:][!!:1:][?!:1:][.?:1:][..:1:][!.:1:][!.:1:][!.:1:][STOP]
< 1552516691 694690 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-52.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -e %m=("..",'$m[$s]++',"!!",'$m[$s]--',".?",'$m++',"?.",'$m--',"!.",'print $m[$s]',"!?",'while($m[$s]){',"?!",'}'); while("........!?.?................?.!!?!.?..!.!.!."=~/(..)/g){ $f.=(($m{$1}//die"what$1"),';print"['.$1.':$s:$m[$s]]"; '); } $s=0;@m=(0)x9; eval$f; print'[STOP]';
< 1552516692 641751 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[..:0:0][..:0:0][..:0:0][..:0:0][!?:0:0][.?:0:0][..:0:0][..:0:0][..:0:0][..:0:0][..:0:0][..:0:0][..:0:0][..:0:0][?.:0:0][!!:0:0][?!:0:0][.?:0:0][..:0:0][!.:0:0][!.:0:0][!.:0:0][STOP]
< 1552516696 863753 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-52.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't look right
< 1552516702 916481 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-52.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the .. should increment the memory
< 1552516789 887553 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh. one of $m[$s]++ or $m++ doesn't make sense... unless perl has a commutative [] just like C.
< 1552516791 570130 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-52.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -e %m=("..",'$m[$s]++',"!!",'$m[$s]--',".?",'$m++',"?.",'$m--',"!.",'print "($m[$s])"',"!?",'while($m[$s]){',"?!",'}'); while("........!?.?................?.!!?!.?..!.!.!."=~/(..)/g){ $f.=(($m{$1}//die"what$1").'; '); } $s=0;@m=(0)x9; eval$f; print'[STOP]';
< 1552516795 581747 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-52.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :better
< 1552516799 896314 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-52.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, $f had the wrong content
< 1552516804 739508 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-52.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1552516810 139324 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-52.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's another bug
< 1552516822 206529 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1552516841 604214 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-52.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -e %c=("..",'$m[$s]++',"!!",'$m[$s]--',".?",'$s++',"?.",'$s--',"!.",'print "($m[$s])"',"!?",'while($m[$s]){',"?!",'}'); while("........!?.?................?.!!?!.?..!.!.!."=~/(..)/g){ $f.=(($c{$1}//die"what$1").'; '); } eval$f; print'[STOP]';
< 1552516842 489491 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​(33)(33)(33)[STOP]
< 1552516851 914920 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-52.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so that prints three exclamation marks
< 1552516860 487397 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I intended
< 1552516873 52627 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-52.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -e %c=("..",'$m[$s]++',"!!",'$m[$s]--',".?",'$s++',"?.",'$s--',"!.",'print chr($m[$s])',"!?",'while($m[$s]){',"?!",'}'); while("........!?.?................?.!!?!.?..!.!.!."=~/(..)/g){ $f.=(($c{$1}//die"what$1").'; '); } eval$f; 
< 1552516873 662297 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​!!!
< 1552516951 225271 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though maybe I should have opted for five. https://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/index.php/Multiple_exclamation_marks
< 1552517001 791583 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-52.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -e while("........!?.?................?.!!?!.?..!.!.!."=~/(..)/g){ $w{$1}++; } for(sort keys%w) { printf "%d%s | ",$w{$_},$_; }
< 1552517002 461356 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1!! | 3!. | 1!? | 13.. | 2.? | 1?! | 1?. |
< 1552517073 618678 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-52.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I could have just translated it to branfuck, then ask our hon. and learned friend fungot to run it
< 1552517073 788085 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: one could say, this piet program prints " wrong"
< 1552517114 765432 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: your way was more entertaining though a bit on the spammy side.
< 1552517147 774070 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-52.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I should have switched to private earlier
< 1552517162 902105 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-52.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: get HackEso onto #esoteric-blah, then I can still be entertaining
< 1552517172 141664 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-52.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :without being spammy here
< 1552517503 971907 :housecarpenter!~housecarp@90.241.249.244 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552517976 723349 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.4
< 1552518188 157887 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-52.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving
> 1552518338 939710 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Featured languages/Candidates14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60491&oldid=60490 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+0) 10Capitalize Turing
< 1552518561 229739 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
> 1552519084 537121 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Interfrac14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60492&oldid=60357 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+6) 10Be bold
< 1552520162 672118 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552520165 763070 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting
< 1552520793 779330 :housecarpenter!~housecarp@90.241.249.244 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1552520817 218722 :housecarpenter!~housecarp@90.241.249.244 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552521633 892236 :housecarpenter!~housecarp@90.241.249.244 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1552521657 937508 :housecarpenter!~housecarp@90.241.249.244 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552522763 783970 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552522897 413798 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1552522897 538588 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1552524416 38935 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552524426 677947 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552524453 457104 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo :$IRC_NICK!$IRC_IDENT@$IRC_HOST $IRC_COMMAND $IRC_TARGET :$IRC_MESSAGE  # <- b_jonas
< 1552524453 936036 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​:fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo :$IRC_NICK!$IRC_IDENT@$IRC_HOST $IRC_COMMAND $IRC_TARGET :$IRC_MESSAGE # <- b_jonas
< 1552524468 393317 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they might miss that if they don't practice logreading.
< 1552524483 385417 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell b_jonas `` echo :$IRC_NICK!$IRC_IDENT@$IRC_HOST $IRC_COMMAND $IRC_TARGET :$IRC_MESSAGE
< 1552524483 455038 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1552524754 571937 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell b_jonas #esoteric-blah I'll do later. multibot doesn't support autojoining several channels, and I don't have the old HackEgo's workaround hack around.
< 1552524754 652987 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1552528695 597525 :mniip!mniip@freenode/staff/mniip QUIT :Ping timeout: 608 seconds
< 1552528870 247031 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.54.203 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552530549 826955 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
< 1552530592 469659 :housecarpenter!~housecarp@90.241.249.244 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1552532992 317036 :mniip!mniip@freenode/staff/mniip JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552534841 645462 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :
> 1552540344 348096 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Interfrac14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60493&oldid=60456 5* 03Ais523 5* (+130) 10/* Computational class */ add a missing case to the triviality proof for missing input
< 1552547077 663034 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :smìl! swèt! sistŕ! sadistic! suprìz! sŕvis! speliñ refòrm!
< 1552547553 703942 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :smIl! swEt! sistR! sadistic! suprIz! sRvis! speliN refOrm!
> 1552548003 514687 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Interfrac14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60494&oldid=60493 5* 03Int-e 5* (+381) 10/* Computational class */ Reference for membership in NP
> 1552548053 688174 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Interfrac14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60495&oldid=60494 5* 03Int-e 5* (+5) 10typo & tweak
< 1552548175 458902 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( Hmm it's called "feasibility", but I don't want to make a third edit. )
< 1552552318 144127 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.200 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552554477 655958 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552554631 321599 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552554683 914419 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1552556026 639946 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1552557209 512204 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net
< 1552557853 272780 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552557868 373108 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh wow nice! let me see
< 1552557872 993026 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` echo $IRC_TARGET
< 1552557873 569607 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#esoteric
< 1552557896 850543 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it says HackEso in private
< 1552557920 197210 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I just have to test what happens if HackEgo's voiced and I send the message to *#esoteric
< 1552558338 907171 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it won't be in another channel you say
< 1552559713 264843 :bobby!~Bob@76.202.115.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1552560073 562944 :bobby!~Bob@76.202.115.164 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552562896 996644 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1552562999 504896 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552563105 807150 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1552563894 699969 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552565168 879014 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1552565740 722820 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552566095 252914 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552566132 780517 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in
< 1552566145 67513 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552566178 685400 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1552566235 770552 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1552572222 532631 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ngilbvqfyqthfgnf JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552573711 597463 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1552573833 741554 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552573985 986469 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1552574027 537003 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552575831 45502 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1552578977 845903 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552579806 128682 :andrew_!b2df2768@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.223.39.104 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552579809 732947 :andrew_!b2df2768@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.223.39.104 PRIVMSG #esoteric :jo
< 1552579848 12895 :andrew_!b2df2768@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.223.39.104 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo wassup
< 1552579988 715977 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1552580007 909865 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ngilbvqfyqthfgnf QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1552580304 747148 :andrew_!b2df2768@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.223.39.104 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh
< 1552580812 474785 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552582054 750455 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome andrew_ 
< 1552582055 871783 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​08andrew_: 09Welcome 02to 06the 13international 04hub 07for 08esoteric 09programming 02language 06design 13and 04deployment! 07For 08more 09information, 02check 06out 13our 04wiki: 07. 08(For 09the 02other 06kind 13of 04esoterica, 07try 08#esoteric 09on 02EFnet 06or 13DALnet.)
< 1552582176 923392 :andrew_!b2df2768@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.223.39.104 QUIT :Quit: Page closed
> 1552582222 374965 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nope.14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60496&oldid=59298 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+348) 10
< 1552582329 750100 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( free font? )
> 1552582438 781487 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Int-e14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60497&oldid=59381 5* 03Int-e 5* (+2) 10I'm feeling silly.
< 1552582711 291184 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552585564 486457 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1552585624 741268 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552585802 790961 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1552586427 541405 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :3/14 1:59!
< 1552586433 770013 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy pi day!
< 1552586437 242398 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552587591 488331 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy pi day
< 1552587631 192151 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> pi
< 1552587633 228301 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3.141592653589793
< 1552587998 686643 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552588237 825783 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of our internal tools with the substring "pi" in its name, let's say "Tapir" for the sake of illustration, not it's real name, is showing the title in the top navigation bar today as "Taπr".
< 1552588300 862782 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (!!1000000).scanl1(+).zipWith(((4/).).(*))[1,3..]$cycle[1,-1]  -- a pointless and rather slow way to compute pi
< 1552588303 648655 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3.1415936535887745
< 1552588321 301459 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where pi_10
< 1552588321 399911 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :(!!3)<$>transpose[show$foldr(\k a->2*10^2^n+a*k`div`(2*k+1))0[1..2^n]|n<-[0..]]
< 1552588334 371711 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (!!3)<$>transpose[show$foldr(\k a->2*10^2^n+a*k`div`(2*k+1))0[1..2^n]|n<-[0..]]
< 1552588337 240459 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : "314159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510582097494459230781640628...
< 1552588349 781877 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice
< 1552588639 628060 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where e_10
< 1552588639 710322 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :[show(sum$scanl div(100^n)[1..[4..]!!n])!!n|n<-[0..]]
< 1552588733 262859 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a Soyuz launch today scheduled for 3:14 pm EDT
< 1552588734 123463 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1552589031 59760 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.32.4249
< 1552590028 245741 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1552590068 339155 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, but soyuz is so boring, it always works
< 1552590078 574991 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually wait didn't one of them blow up mid-flight recently
< 1552590282 58505 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soyuz_MS-10
> 1552590819 84052 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07HelloWorld14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60498&oldid=20035 5* 03Gamer 5* (+69) 10/* Example */
< 1552590939 806754 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1552590948 423872 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :successful abort
< 1552591008 25336 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :soyuz is the only space vehicle where they've used the launch escape system in anger
< 1552591011 59412 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it worked
< 1552591012 850199 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Soyuz 7K-ST No. 16L, 1983)
< 1552591027 326596 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :MS-10 was a post-LES-jettison abort
< 1552591064 695553 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> unfoldr(\((x:y:rs),c,n)->Just(4*c/n,(rs,c+if x**2+y**2<1then 1else 0,n+1)))(map((/4294967296.0).realToFrac)$iterate((`mod`4294967296).(1013904223+).(1664525*))420247365,0,1)!!100000  -- hope you like this abominatio
< 1552591067 229010 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3.1416085839141608
< 1552591167 824695 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it turns out I still know Haskell a bit??? weird
< 1552591700 972657 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
> 1552591767 475873 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Gamer14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60499&oldid=58632 5* 03Gamer 5* (+31) 10
> 1552591783 576652 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Gamer14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60500&oldid=60499 5* 03Gamer 5* (-2) 10
< 1552592009 472661 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, there's a great graphic on wp's article on challenger which documents the launch escape modes before and after the disaster and subsequent reforms
< 1552592036 115088 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :before the chart basically says "you're fucked, rip" for about half the ascent
< 1552593245 479296 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552593420 158907 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jvuunpjzubdepftz PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: “Upon being greeted by recovery crews, they immediately asked for cigarettes to steady their nerves. The cosmonauts were then given shots of vodka to help them relax.”
< 1552593573 261609 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552593782 862726 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1552593789 509413 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552593914 376855 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :When people claim that a pope and an antipope excommunicates each other, does the antipope actually excommunicate the pope, or does he merely hire a sorcerer to change the target of the pope's excommunication back to him?
< 1552594026 276323 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: "in anger"?
< 1552594328 990929 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, shachaf: also, I have some pi approximations http://jsoftware.com/pipermail/chat/2012-August/004909.html
< 1552594625 546012 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jvuunpjzubdepftz PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: archaic way of saying “for real”
< 1552594658 871738 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :j4cbo: #russia
< 1552594684 143503 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: they annihilate each other, releasing a huge amount of energy
< 1552594882 529280 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see
< 1552598136 554434 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mddergnmgfawhyrx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552599246 991240 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552600558 276808 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@2601:602:8500:d0d1:c1e0:3340:3dcc:a4f6 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552601794 410529 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552602440 941921 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.200 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1552603730 258220 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552604303 462695 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1552605927 295076 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1552607716 184342 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mddergnmgfawhyrx QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1552608334 545976 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552609297 253598 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-144.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1552609300 656445 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552609427 114865 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1552609441 806572 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1552610023 987858 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552610197 220333 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1552615128 483603 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
> 1552619563 790203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03DrMeepster 5*  10New user account
> 1552619779 909157 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60501&oldid=60477 5* 03DrMeepster 5* (+171) 10introduced
< 1552621472 965207 :adu_!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552621993 524072 :adu_!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net NICK :adu
< 1552622034 227482 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :
< 1552622128 841210 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zbidlzvvdpjznorx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552627602 423055 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552627788 20333 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1552629890 888539 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zbidlzvvdpjznorx QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1552630481 540877 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xjhnhqpuumyrzgbf JOIN :#esoteric
> 1552631053 80857 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0711CORTLANG14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60502&oldid=59423 5* 03Cortex 5* (+108) 10
< 1552631827 950015 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-vlqpjxabbywuahpw QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
> 1552631855 45218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Underload14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60503&oldid=50936 5* 03Challenger5 5* (+230) 10/* Y-combinator */ new section
< 1552631866 308547 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-dohdopctydtqzzoe JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552633367 852692 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: adu
< 1552634906 649781 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552636046 763624 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552638042 987406 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552638217 533605 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1552638846 935389 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@129.21.123.11 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552641890 951532 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xjhnhqpuumyrzgbf QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1552642608 228361 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@2601:602:8500:d0d1:c1e0:3340:3dcc:a4f6 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1552643105 681086 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-muskvbjebpycqzzk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552643761 506924 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
> 1552643985 826501 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60504&oldid=59982 5* 03A 5* (+259) 10Summary
> 1552644151 594518 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60505&oldid=60504 5* 03A 5* (+35) 10
> 1552644437 745824 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60506&oldid=60505 5* 03A 5* (-159) 10
> 1552644500 519660 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60507&oldid=60506 5* 03A 5* (+7) 10
> 1552644709 456460 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60508&oldid=60507 5* 03A 5* (+39) 10
> 1552645027 754991 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60509&oldid=60508 5* 03A 5* (+182) 10
> 1552645036 360889 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60510&oldid=60509 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10
> 1552645065 91578 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60511&oldid=60510 5* 03A 5* (+28) 10
< 1552647501 489479 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-175.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552648957 646577 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.200 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552650695 146607 :orby_work!32e0e343@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.224.227.67 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1552652659 684552 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1552652688 755025 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552653468 801062 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552653493 730857 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded
< 1552661811 172405 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@129.21.123.11 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1552662653 584085 :bobby!~Bob@76.202.115.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
> 1552662895 187013 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nope.14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60512&oldid=60496 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (-25) 10
> 1552662945 938920 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nope.14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60513&oldid=60512 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+20) 10
< 1552665423 866892 :bobby!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:70f3:be85:ba35:abb0 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552665997 593513 :bobby!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:70f3:be85:ba35:abb0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1552666428 696151 :bobby!~Bob@76.202.115.164 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552667399 58799 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552669013 256197 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552669519 437148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages?
< 1552669519 517098 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
< 1552669702 353034 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl-e @a=(10,20,30); $b = 1; print $a[$b]; print $b[$a];
< 1552669702 819267 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :20
< 1552669735 214818 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl-e @a=(10,20,30); $a = 1; print $a[$a];
< 1552669735 650913 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :20
< 1552669745 830216 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: ^ why Perl's [] is not commutative
< 1552670090 960274 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-muskvbjebpycqzzk QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1552670676 908647 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-175.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello
< 1552671038 660095 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-175.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no news yet about that balanced tree library that you were planning to write?
< 1552671058 102452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I haven't written any more of it
< 1552671516 538345 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-175.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -efor(sort keys%ENV) { if(/^IRC/) { print "$_=$ENV{$_} " }} # fizzie modified HackEso so now execution gets some IRC context
< 1552671516 964803 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC_COMMAND=PRIVMSG IRC_HOST=catv-176-63-24-175.catv.broadband.hu IRC_IDENT=~x IRC_MESSAGE=`perl -efor(sort keys%ENV) { if(/^IRC/) { print "$_=$ENV{$_} " }} # fizzie modified HackEso so now execution gets some IRC context IRC_NICK=b_jonas IRC_TARGET=#esoteric
< 1552672497 271797 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo $IRC_MESSAGE # easiest quine ever
< 1552672497 749842 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`` echo $IRC_MESSAGE # easiest quine ever
< 1552672522 799620 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess technically it's not, because there's the command character escaping.
< 1552672775 460433 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-175.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that apply to any HackEso quine
< 1552673238 418382 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-175.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` r=(\\ \  \' '``` r=(' ');for k in 3 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 2 0 2 3 2 1 2 4 2 4;do echo -n "${r[k]}";done');for k in 3 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 2 0 2 3 2 1 2 4 2 4;do echo -n "${r[k]}";done
< 1552673238 928848 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​``` r=(\\ \  \'\'``` r=(' ');for k in 3 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 2 0 2 3 2 1 2 4 2 4;do echo -n "${r[k]}";done');for k in 3 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 2 0 2 3 2 1 2 4 2 4;do echo -n "${r[k]}";done
< 1552673246 601721 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-175.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a HeckEso quine?
< 1552673255 713395 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-175.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stupid backticks are hard to escape in bash
< 1552673288 115707 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-175.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a shell option that makes backticks ordinary characters? I never use them for their shell special meaning, since I have $() insteaed
< 1552673697 777635 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-175.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -eprint+("`perl -eprint+(","\"",",","\\",")[g1012131121212133121414=~/./g]")[g1012131121212133121414=~/./g]
< 1552673698 195671 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`perl -eprint+("`perl -eprint+(","\"",",","\\",")[g1012131121212133121414=~/./g]")[g1012131121212133121414=~/./g]
< 1552673700 775202 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-175.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is easier
< 1552673808 341005 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-175.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -eprint+("\\","\"",",","`perl -eprint+(",")[3,1,0,0,1,2,1,0,1,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,3,1,2,1,4,1,4]")[3,1,0,0,1,2,1,0,1,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,3,1,2,1,4,1,4]
< 1552673808 738881 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`perl -eprint+("\\","\"",",","`perl -eprint+(",")[3,1,0,0,1,2,1,0,1,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,3,1,2,1,4,1,4]")[3,1,0,0,1,2,1,0,1,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,3,1,2,1,4,1,4]
< 1552673920 767954 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-175.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -eprint unpack a43X43a42xaXXaaXaXXa,"`perl -eprint unpack a43X43a42xaXXaaXaXXa,\"\\"
< 1552673921 187435 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`perl -eprint unpack a43X43a42xaXXaaXaXXa,"`perl -eprint unpack a43X43a42xaXXaaXaXXa,\"\\"
< 1552674040 540416 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-175.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=835038 has some nice ones
< 1552674087 268571 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552675702 633627 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-175.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think this is a paradox https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:M%C3%B6mpelgarder_Altar . Not only was the winged altar full of paintings ordered for a protestant church building, but also the church building is named after a saint.
< 1552676786 122809 :hereforawhile!4574f736@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.247.54 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552676824 356631 :hereforawhile!4574f736@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.116.247.54 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1552676926 666606 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552677137 960047 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1552677784 381193 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((^ul )SaS(:^)S):^
< 1552677784 461095 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((^ul )SaS(:^)S):^
< 1552677836 620979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` file `which file`
< 1552677837 164811 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/usr/bin/file: ELF 64-bit LSB shared object, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2, for GNU/Linux 2.6.32, BuildID[sha1]=833d99e1b8d7884dc6b1cfb142ba3034b1bf6968, stripped
< 1552677849 467437 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I tend to use backticks by default in simple command lines like that one
< 1552677854 466189 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but $() in more complex situations
< 1552677927 891953 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I switched to $() and never looked back
< 1552677930 170172 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's prettier
< 1552677934 219082 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it nests
< 1552677956 998196 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo $(echo $(echo $(echo hi)))
< 1552677957 355866 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​$(echo $(echo $(echo hi)))
< 1552677971 898696 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bash -c 'echo $(echo $(echo $(echo hi)))'
< 1552677972 910707 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: - : invalid option \ Usage:	bash [GNU long option] [option] ... \ 	bash [GNU long option] [option] script-file ... \ GNU long options: \ 	--debug \ 	--debugger \ 	--dump-po-strings \ 	--dump-strings \ 	--help \ 	--init-file \ 	--login \ 	--noediting \ 	--noprofile \ 	--norc \ 	--posix \ 	--rcfile \ 	--restricted \ 	--verbose \ 	--version \ Shell options: \ 	-ilrsD or -c command or -O shopt_option		(invocation only) \ 	-abefhkmnptuvxBCHP or -o option
< 1552677975 780802 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bluh
< 1552678187 279849 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem with ` is that you can only give a single command-line argument, and most shells want -c separately from the body. That's why bin/` is so good.
< 1552678190 550772 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo $(echo $(echo $(echo hi)))
< 1552678191 115868 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1552678356 101892 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :h
< 1552678358 27526 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :m
< 1552678359 312085 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :o
< 1552678360 16423 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :k
< 1552678653 339015 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit
< 1552678818 992089 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552678825 140572 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :K-Lined
< 1552679256 57842 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-175.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` echo "$(echo "$(echo "$(echo hi)")")"
< 1552679256 554696 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1552679259 658862 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-175.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` echo "$(echo "$(echo "$(echo hi)")")"; echo x
< 1552679260 238376 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi \ x
< 1552679269 27454 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-175.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right
< 1552679279 772863 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-175.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is shell backtick, not perl backtick, it strips the trailing newline
< 1552679317 173321 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :``cat bin/\`
< 1552679317 563774 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `cat: not found
< 1552679329 389737 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` cat bin/\`
< 1552679329 867181 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/bash \ cmd="${1-quote}" \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ eval -- "$cmd" | rnoooooodl
< 1552679343 221697 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` cat bin/rnoooooodl
< 1552679343 603856 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-31-1-220-95.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552679343 751839 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: bin/rnoooooodl: No such file or directory
< 1552679349 780752 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` cat `which rnoooooodl`
< 1552679357 734891 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-175.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :heheheh
< 1552679362 311380 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-175.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rnoodl caught you
< 1552679365 233634 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` cat bin/\`\`
< 1552679365 724971 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ export LANG=C; exec bash -O extglob -c "$@" | rnoooooodl
< 1552679380 111523 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is rnoooooodl
< 1552679390 46537 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo let kmc puzzle this one out
< 1552679392 816286 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-175.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` for x in {1..19}; do echo rnooodl; done
< 1552679393 263637 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :rnooooodl \ rnoooooodl \ rnoooodl \ rnoooodl \ rnooooooodl \ rnooooooodl \ rnoooodl \ rnooooooodl \ rnooooodl \ rnooooooooodl \ rnoooodl \ rnooodl \ rnoooooodl \ rnooooooodl \ rnooooooooodl \ rnooooooodl \ rnooooooodl \ rnoooooooodl \ rnooooooooodl
< 1552679394 410582 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` alias
< 1552679394 838780 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1552679401 35448 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1552679407 103565 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` rnoooooodl
< 1552679409 858622 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/`: line 5: rnoooooodl: command not found
< 1552679416 740688 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls bin/rno*dl
< 1552679417 886173 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/rnoooodl
< 1552679423 434824 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :spoilers
< 1552679425 795632 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` cat bin/rnoooodl
< 1552679426 420797 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: bin/rnoooodl: No such file or directory
< 1552679431 121561 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-175.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1552679432 391191 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` cat bin/rno*dl
< 1552679432 917069 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl -pe 's/([Nn])ooodl/"$1@{[o x(3+rand 7)]}dl"/ge'
< 1552679437 72703 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolololol
< 1552679460 586642 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls bin/rno*dl | tr n-za-m a-z
< 1552679461 202936 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ova/eabbbqy
< 1552679469 610440 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` stat bin/rno*dl
< 1552679470 266832 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​  File: bin/rnooooooooodl \   Size: 53        	Blocks: 8          IO Block: 1024   regular file \ Device: 12h/18d	Inode: 1204943     Links: 1 \ Access: (0755/-rwxr-xr-x)  Uid: ( 1000/ UNKNOWN)   Gid: ( 1000/ UNKNOWN) \ Access: 2019-03-15 19:51:09.000000000 +0000 \ Modify: 2018-04-07 22:41:28.000000000 +0000 \ Change: 2018-04-07 22:41:28.000000000 +0000 \  Birth: -
< 1552679479 289670 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` stat bin/rnooodl
< 1552679479 868561 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​  File: bin/rnooooooodl \   Size: 53        	Blocks: 8          IO Block: 1024   regular file \ Device: 12h/18d	Inode: 1204943     Links: 1 \ Access: (0755/-rwxr-xr-x)  Uid: ( 1000/ UNKNOWN)   Gid: ( 1000/ UNKNOWN) \ Access: 2019-03-15 19:51:19.000000000 +0000 \ Modify: 2018-04-07 22:41:28.000000000 +0000 \ Change: 2018-04-07 22:41:28.000000000 +0000 \  Birth: -
< 1552679516 899375 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3
< 1552679519 739835 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION -> afk
> 1552679599 443333 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03LasChicasGG 5*  10New user account
> 1552679693 947657 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Lambda94 5*  10New user account
< 1552679728 292191 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-175.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Excommu
< 1552679728 791784 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excommunicate \ 2W \ Sorcery \ Put target creature on top of its owner's library. \ ALA-C, M10-C, M11-C
< 1552679997 403012 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552682080 261745 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.54.203 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1552682886 385784 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552682886 469037 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host
< 1552682886 469089 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552683466 983339 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552684028 548849 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see you've been noodling around
< 1552684092 363093 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully without incident
< 1552684104 547428 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't want a repeat of that
< 1552684168 375744 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.54.203 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552684283 498 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think no incident was involved. ais523 quit just before.
< 1552684554 280380 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :snackleford is definitely building up karma to become eaten by that monster instead of whoever he's sacrificing.
< 1552685881 931686 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1552687348 135618 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-175.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1552687713 437861 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552688513 628259 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's boring... how do you think he'd feel if he was accidently spread out over a few millenia?
< 1552688526 403585 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... millennia
< 1552689359 531884 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point
> 1552690402 919277 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NPFuck14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60514 5* 03Cortex 5* (+1322) 10Created page with "'''NPFuck''' is a [[Brainfuck]] derivative made by [[User:Cortex|]] designed to be as hard to implement as possible.  == How to write an NPFuck program == First, write the num..."
< 1552691809 641901 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.200 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1552692048 71071 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ais quit??
< 1552692263 517208 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1552692424 318487 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Underload14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60515&oldid=60503 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+227) 10unsigned, golf
< 1552692452 284268 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-31-1-220-95.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1552692485 509766 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1552692539 957411 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: /quit
< 1552692602 116966 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:37:33 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit).
< 1552692605 586818 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmao
< 1552692976 108017 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PART #esoteric :"SPORADIC CHICKEN"
< 1552692976 188907 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552693012 375514 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552693207 33276 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu TOPIC #esoteric :2019 IOCCC ended March 15th | Welcome to the international soiree  for esoteric programming language discussion, design, development and devaluation! | https://esolangs.org | logs: https://esolangs.org/logs/ http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf
< 1552693222 325298 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu TOPIC #esoteric :2019 IOCCC ended March 15th | Welcome to the international soiree for esoteric programming language discussion, design, development and devaluation! | https://esolangs.org | logs: https://esolangs.org/logs/ http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf
< 1552695738 141143 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:c4b3:df17:f65b:3fa3 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1552695759 279993 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552695926 722741 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1552695932 349279 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1552696471 261506 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:89e7:e726:3d21:6a1c JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552698633 86216 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting
< 1552698655 291102 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I played GURPS game today.
< 1552698660 689831 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :?messages-loud
< 1552698660 762136 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie said 3d 23h 26m 50s ago: To answer a question I missed, x86 has always had a fast byte swap for 16-bit values (via `xchg al, ah` and so on), and from 80486 onwards gained a BSWAP instruction
< 1552698660 801654 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :to swap the endianness of 32-bit and (on x86-64) 64-bit values.
< 1552698711 43688 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like MOR?
< 1552698778 652725 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you mean the MOR instruction in MMIX? It is good to switch endian (including PDP-endian), and other uses.
< 1552698795 457847 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone care about PDP-endian?
< 1552698836 808277 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hamster archive files uses PDP-endian for the lump data sizes
< 1552700852 183269 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1552701115 122626 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now in SQLite they implemented the EXCLUDE clause for window functions, although EXCLUDE CURRENT ROW does not seem a very useful feature to me. However, they also implemented " PRECEDING" and " FOLLOWING" for RANGE type window frames, which does looks like useful to me (and in that case, non-integers make sense, since it is the range of values rather than the number of rows, and the values might not be integers).
< 1552704667 891629 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
> 1552709596 217119 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Cortex14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60516&oldid=60227 5* 03Cortex 5* (+35) 10
< 1552714263 829394 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :
< 1552714923 113132 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org QUIT :Quit: I seem to have stopped.
< 1552714932 532905 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552719306 223653 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.2.62 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552728980 395789 :vertrex!~vertrex@unaffiliated/vertrex QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1552729010 940569 :vertrex!~vertrex@digital-forensic.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552729010 980491 :vertrex!~vertrex@digital-forensic.org QUIT :Changing host
< 1552729010 980532 :vertrex!~vertrex@unaffiliated/vertrex JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552734728 275127 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552735607 376975 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552736321 203258 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's a soiree now?
< 1552736468 245947 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-7-132-38.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl JOIN :#esoteric
> 1552737898 718457 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:DMC14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60517&oldid=58741 5* 03DMC 5* (-10) 10
< 1552738300 115742 :andrew_!b2df0c48@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.223.12.72 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552738303 398143 :andrew_!b2df0c48@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.223.12.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1552738800 770811 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hey, the eh author drew art for bobadventures
< 1552738963 702693 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552739137 239120 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1552739137 732567 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1552739212 915968 :andrew_!b2df0c48@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.223.12.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats the worst esolang in general in your opinion
< 1552739225 466777 :andrew_!b2df0c48@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.223.12.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the hardest, but generally the worst
< 1552739242 50893 :andrew_!b2df0c48@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.223.12.72 QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1552739262 128551 :andrew_!b2df0c48@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.223.12.72 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552739424 832840 :bobby!~Bob@76.202.115.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1552740235 762761 :bobby!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:f4f0:9ea1:e60d:95d7 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552740687 533351 :bobby!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:f4f0:9ea1:e60d:95d7 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1552740802 608816 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-7-132-38.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl - looks like some normal language but unlike other languages, Perl has especially high tendency to turn into line noise.
< 1552740853 5413 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-7-132-38.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really, the worst one? Three star programmer?
< 1552740868 423864 :bobby!~Bob@76.202.115.164 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552740921 107718 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-7-132-38.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe Rule 110. This has been proven Turing-complete, but really I have no idea how I could use it to multiply two integers.
< 1552740955 771354 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-7-132-38.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ andrew_
< 1552741078 962293 :andrew_!b2df0c48@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.223.12.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl is normal
< 1552741088 609892 :andrew_!b2df0c48@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.223.12.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it does often devolve into golfing
< 1552741099 910279 :andrew_!b2df0c48@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.223.12.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also heyo
< 1552741101 759851 :andrew_!b2df0c48@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.223.12.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :andrew here
< 1552741140 219306 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-7-132-38.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1552741165 233848 :andrew_!b2df0c48@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.223.12.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me the worst one is nullary
< 1552741171 885417 :andrew_!b2df0c48@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.223.12.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends on the settings of your computer
< 1552741189 18058 :andrew_!b2df0c48@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.223.12.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's on the line of nit being a language at all
< 1552741320 228529 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-egiafkuxtbctymae JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552741480 797043 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-7-132-38.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolangs.org: Needless to say, Nullary isn't a very practical language. It may be of use to time travellers with a warped sense of humour, or those of a very patient disposition. 
< 1552741507 885466 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-7-132-38.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh... yeah... so...
< 1552741530 527091 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-7-132-38.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe let's create another one. The one that executes a program based on planets position?
< 1552741645 51293 :andrew_!b2df0c48@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.223.12.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1552741666 55588 :andrew_!b2df0c48@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.223.12.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :planetary outputs the name of a planet if said planet is at its closest point to earth
< 1552741679 711627 :andrew_!b2df0c48@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.223.12.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however
< 1552741684 700292 :andrew_!b2df0c48@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.223.12.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can define your own planets
< 1552741759 312229 :andrew_!b2df0c48@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.223.12.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the handy dandy notation from slashes
< 1552741761 261013 :andrew_!b2df0c48@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.223.12.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically
< 1552741784 192241 :andrew_!b2df0c48@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.223.12.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :planet/distance/perihelion/eccentricity
< 1552741786 423026 :andrew_!b2df0c48@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.223.12.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the syntax
< 1552741868 373538 :andrew_!b2df0c48@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.223.12.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also
< 1552741873 87119 :andrew_!b2df0c48@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.223.12.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can define actions
< 1552741894 464555 :andrew_!b2df0c48@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.223.12.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i'm too lazy to make a full fledged esolang)
< 1552742323 693477 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-7-132-38.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will be back within a minute. (syncing chat)
< 1552742325 355684 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-7-132-38.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl QUIT :Quit: TheWild
< 1552742423 273253 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-7-132-38.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552742482 542914 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-7-132-38.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :andrew_: maybe not entirely esoteric but you may find the concept interesting: https://gist.github.com/beyondlimits/e00159460b55ea4eff949933a2b7dc8e
< 1552742520 752265 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-7-132-38.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :andrew_: also you can download Logisim and build a computer using *only* N-type or P-type transistors as functional blocks
< 1552742533 650612 :andrew_!b2df0c48@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.223.12.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooof
< 1552742634 822594 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-7-132-38.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :or download Rocks'n'Diamonds, go to the level editor and prove it's Turing-complete. The game allows creation of custom elements, but since it's "programmed" from rules and not via script, it gets quite challenging. Personally I failed.
< 1552742686 727779 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-7-132-38.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn, I would bet I've already mentioned the game on this channel but I have nothing in chat logs
< 1552742689 891566 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552742853 429198 :andrew_!b2df0c48@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.223.12.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oof
< 1552744053 160231 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suspect "the sequence" and "the sequence 2" to being tc as bullying automatons
< 1552745247 187182 :andrew_!b2df0c48@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.223.12.72 QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1552746023 741686 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552750324 808985 :fmease!fmeasematr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-moeujmjkwbsmgvya QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552750335 198324 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-hnidskzaoyonzvtb QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552750490 953535 :vertrex!~vertrex@unaffiliated/vertrex QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1552750643 596834 :vertrex!~vertrex@digital-forensic.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552750643 712923 :vertrex!~vertrex@digital-forensic.org QUIT :Changing host
< 1552750643 752567 :vertrex!~vertrex@unaffiliated/vertrex JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552750798 725553 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1552750905 535130 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-egiafkuxtbctymae QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1552750925 740498 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552751016 274672 :fmease!fmeasematr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-uiwqjcqipmxuagmh JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552751156 726262 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552751379 533819 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1552751586 644166 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jskpvjtqtptaiokg JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552751809 139473 :andrew_!b2df0c48@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.223.12.72 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552751819 701247 :andrew_!b2df0c48@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.223.12.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello there guys, andrew here
< 1552751913 248056 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-flueywiblfaggmwa JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552753198 444289 :andrew_!b2df0c48@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.223.12.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[17:15] 
< 1552753226 977026 :andrew_!b2df0c48@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.223.12.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[17:20] <__andrew___>
< 1552753604 278079 :andrew_!b2df0c48@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.223.12.72 QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1552755239 911975 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-7-132-38.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no! Andrew left.
< 1552755312 738198 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have tried Rocks'n'Diamonds before, although it lacks the Hero Mesh property, so that is why I try to make Free Hero Mesh.
< 1552755484 194587 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like Free Hero Mesh?
< 1552755713 860410 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea what these things are
< 1552755846 756294 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is the explanation of Free Hero Mesh:  http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/heromesh.ui/index
< 1552756014 463404 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-7-132-38.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :this explains that the project is not yet complete, its configuration options, keybinding etc. but not *what it is*
< 1552756163 84 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a puzzle game engine, for a game involving a rectangular grid no larger than 64x64, which is turn based so that the state depends only on the initial state, game rules, and sequence of moves played; not time or randomness.
< 1552756211 261013 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-7-132-38.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that yet another Golly?
< 1552756246 853318 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-7-132-38.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, my bad - not reading carefully
< 1552756296 923292 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Furthermore, each move played is specified by a 8-bit key code (although future versions might allow coordinate input too, but maybe not).
< 1552756338 891680 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-7-132-38.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, char direction:2, amount:6;
< 1552756390 825382 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-7-132-38.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you mean the keyboard scancode
< 1552756408 677432 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-7-132-38.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :there aren't 256 keys on my keyboard
< 1552756411 417598 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-7-132-38.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even 128
< 1552756465 25073 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the Windows key code; since Free Hero Mesh is a Linux program though, it converts the key codes according to the user configuration into the corresponding Windows key codes.
< 1552756706 63264 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, customizable mapping of keys or buttons is a useful feature, because if your games don't allow it, people will still do it using third-party mapping software, and it doesn't even count as cheating in real-time speedruns as long as they don't use two buttons for an action that the default mapping only has one button so they can mash faster.
< 1552756748 608959 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still worth to have default mappings for keyboard and for controller of course, for new players
< 1552756783 978630 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, a default configuration file may be made up
< 1552756881 598930 :vertrex!~vertrex@unaffiliated/vertrex QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1552757209 778105 :vertrex!~vertrex@unaffiliated/vertrex JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552758582 568076 :DevHackBot!~DevHackBo@88.98.228.179 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552758585 868740 :DevHackBot!~DevHackBo@88.98.228.179 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552758987 449262 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: HackEso is now available on #esoteric-blah.
< 1552759241 521339 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: nice!
< 1552759294 487561 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`env\
< 1552759294 867236 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: env\: not found
< 1552759295 862518 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`env
< 1552759296 349092 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :HACKENV=/hackenv \ IRC_HOST=catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu \ IRC_IDENT=~x \ IRC_TARGET=#esoteric \ PWD=/hackenv \ HOME=/tmp \ http_proxy=http://127.0.0.1:3128 \ IRC_NICK=b_jonas \ IRC_MESSAGE=`env \ TERM=linux \ IRC_COMMAND=PRIVMSG \ SHLVL=0 \ PATH=/hackenv/bin:/usr/bin:/bin
< 1552761091 247489 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I played GURPS game yesterday. This time we go underground through the basement in the church, but the bald gnomes will not believe us that above the ground the hair is not as valuable as here and you do not need to kill people to cut their hair, and that there is actually two barbers one in day time and one in night time; they think only the barber working in night time.
< 1552761245 306108 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said I wanted to look in the leper window, but at first the GM did not know what is a leper window but then he look it up in his computer and he learn.
< 1552761453 82604 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want to sneak into a cementary to sell the hair of the dead for wigs?
< 1552761483 48739 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, steal the hair of the dead and sell it for wigs
< 1552761649 985639 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552762185 814942 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually that was not our intention (just there happens to be the entrance through the church), but yes that could do too, since they are dead and do not need their hair anymore. However, I have no use for it anyways; they can do it themself, and do not have to kill people to get it. Rather my intention was that people who go to barber to get hair cut, you can use their hair.
< 1552762290 347751 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the barber already buys the hair, and stealing from the dead in the cementary can be a bad idea because town authorities and lawful gods don't like it, and it may disturb the undead that haunt the cementary
< 1552762419 648281 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think the crypts and pyramids of rich dead people have the most treasure but also the most undead curses
< 1552762603 110470 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen a lot of pyramid loot in the Kunsthistorisches Museum, Wien. those rich people were buried with a lot of little statuettes.
< 1552762609 150406 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and jewelry too
< 1552762647 782124 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a lot of photos too, and should process and publish them
< 1552762681 463626 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very good photos, because the museum isn't lit too well, and it's also full of other people so it's hard to make photos without other people being on them
< 1552762727 817400 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you crop them so that only the object of interest is included in the picture, then?
< 1552762754 470377 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the problem is that being a museum, almost everything is behind glass, so the people are on the reflections
< 1552762761 837851 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not only the backgrouns
< 1552762773 908412 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, in some cases I have to crop
< 1552762781 521507 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in some other cases I had to wait a lot to make a good photo
< 1552762812 297239 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, although I suppose the reflection would not be avoided (although it would be ideal not to have the reflections of anything, but, you cannot do that, it seem like).
< 1552762829 628122 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to return there for like two days after I buy a camera withh a non-small lens
< 1552762873 190276 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :helps somewhat with the bad lighting (although some rooms are still too dark that way), and potentially helps a bit with the reflections if I use a polarizer filter
< 1552762882 533912 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even then it's hard
< 1552762956 150744 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not just the amount of light, but that it comes from windows and spotlights, so there are often reflections of the lights too, not proper diffuse light from multiple directions
< 1552762987 210272 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so multiple problems at the same time
< 1552763043 517007 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I can understand now how you mean, yes it is many
< 1552763108 374427 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the darkest rooms aren't even ones with the textiles and wood, it seemed like they're some of the ones containing marble statues or noble metal jewelry, ones that aren't harmed by bright lights
< 1552763171 249612 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, technology may help here, because both fluorescent lighting and LED lighting became better recently, so perhaps the museum will have more in a few decades
< 1552763203 629587 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, I'm generally sceptical of those things, and prefer good old traditional incandescent or halogen lights, but for lighting such a huge space all day, the modern stuff is cheaper
< 1552763222 172041 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do already have fluorescent ceiling lamps of course
< 1552763261 180068 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the good thing is, there was apparently a project sponsored by Google where they made high quality photos of most of the paintings at least
< 1552763317 146267 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incandescent light is good for Christmas light because the other ones aren't nice (to save energy, the lights should be flashy), but for the indicator light on many things the LED is better. And, there can be use for fluorescent too.
< 1552763349 919270 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :indicator light could be led for a very long time, because those don't need to have a decent spectrum
< 1552763378 974848 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be narrow band red or green or yellow (or "amber" if you like fancy words)
< 1552763392 862843 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it doesn't need a decent spectrum, it is what I think too.
< 1552763397 24285 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, it was better when they were all read or green or yellow, I hate these new blue indicator lights
< 1552763442 509586 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all paintings though, eg. the paradoxical winged altar of which I just uploaded photos https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wien-khm-kunstkammer30-montbeliard-composite.jpg doesn't have good photos yet
< 1552763443 898065 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like the blue one either so much they are used too much. The power light on my computer is blue, but I think green would be better; the blue is bad for sleeping.
< 1552763512 438691 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I uploaded them because noisy photos is still better than no photos
< 1552763529 939835 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1552763538 526869 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still haven't checked all paintings for whether they have photos
< 1552763549 97477 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not all paintings obviously
< 1552763554 227376 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the selection of which I made photos
< 1552763567 2151 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's still just a small fraction of all the paintings they have
< 1552763736 477988 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Antonio_de_Pereda_-_Allegory_of_Vanity_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg here's an example of a painting that does have a decent photo by the Google Art project
< 1552763748 852724 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not perfect, they could have made it higher resolution, but it's good enough
< 1552763817 834704 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, the museum has more than one painting about an allegory of vanitas, so you have to be specific
< 1552763875 215798 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.2.62 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1552764104 340173 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jskpvjtqtptaiokg QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
> 1552765240 677634 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bucket14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60518&oldid=60450 5* 03Camto 5* (+35) 10Added category.
< 1552765532 724712 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552766095 241929 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :flash memory and cordless vacuum cleaners are both supposed to be impossible, but everyone uses them now. even I use SD cards. this decade is crazy.
< 1552767153 276379 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-7-132-38.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1552767410 251340 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm wait, what word starting with "a" was it that I wanted to look up the pronunciation of?
< 1552768644 246547 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :amortized hth
< 1552768688 678703 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? oerjan
< 1552768690 226612 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your omnidryad saddle principal ideal golfing toe-obsessed "Darth Ook" oerjan the shifty eldrazi grinch is a punctual expert in minor compaction. Also a Groadep who minces Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience. His ark-nemesis is Noah. He twice punned without noticing it.
< 1552769263 724030 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-7-132-38.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552770162 967947 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: SPOILER WARNING
< 1552771438 864140 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1552771736 418907 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: now if you change your mind and I do implement an olist that saves listed strips to the version-controlled fs, I'll make them save ordered pairs of $IRC_TARGET and strip now
< 1552773262 960474 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552773452 911411 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'll pretend that I was refreshing my memory :P
< 1552774090 183427 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552775177 154425 :adu_!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552775371 780422 :adu_!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net NICK :adu
< 1552776296 88353 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you bring forth the next o? current strip was ten years ago
< 1552776897 985712 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( b_jonas seems a little out of synch )
< 1552776985 184103 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um
< 1552776986 567810 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ten days
< 1552776990 972019 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that was strange
< 1552778083 230454 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
< 1552779027 271104 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
> 1552779110 283633 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Memfractal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60519&oldid=50103 5* 03Camto 5* (+1526) 10Add my own spec interpretation.
< 1552779264 744157 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-7-132-38.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1552779370 397885 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552781652 221821 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1552782252 593065 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552782381 672783 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1552782394 807296 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1552785410 240148 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552786543 2003 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting
< 1552787161 290167 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: adu
< 1552787191 674111 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552787194 967069 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Client Quit
< 1552787225 725850 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552787241 429829 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Client Quit
< 1552787266 949255 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552787288 51943 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Client Quit
< 1552787316 560822 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552787334 773513 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Client Quit
< 1552787358 749004 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552787381 395217 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Client Quit
> 1552787604 904408 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Symbolic Python14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60520&oldid=58738 5* 03Cortex 5* (+39) 10
< 1552792317 759386 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-70.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1552792706 406999 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1552795699 399132 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ljkrakauer.com/LJK/60s/hamchess.htm
< 1552795721 158385 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :
< 1552797135 224262 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not the same as the modern algebraic notation (although I have used some computer programs that use that kind of "E2E4" notation)
< 1552797342 897886 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That MAC HACK 6 game though seems to use another different notation
> 1552800059 220190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Memfractal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60521&oldid=60519 5* 03Zzo38 5* (+155) 10
< 1552800212 436452 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
> 1552808459 929246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07String rewriting paradigm14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60522 5* 03A 5* (+626) 10Created page with "[[String rewriting paradigm]] is a programming language in the string-rewriting paradigm. ==Syntax== 
 d: duplicate the next character. Example: d* results in **.  -: repl..."
> 1552808933 165344 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07String rewriting paradigm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60523&oldid=60522 5* 03A 5* (-123) 10/* Syntax */
< 1552814674 11338 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Have you played Baba Is You yet?
< 1552814674 579272 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :twh
< 1552817376 502980 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yyblyijcypsxouhm JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552817810 544621 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552818530 653311 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1552818840 446869 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552819564 9112 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552819802 71388 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1552820103 588557 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552822188 748417 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1552822827 750523 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might bite if it goes on sale
< 1552823730 70388 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.0.201 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552823776 604468 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1552823893 54744 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552823918 255193 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-248-31-71.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552824383 612140 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid stemmer search, "miserable" is not related to "miser"
< 1552824608 735936 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1552824667 71395 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tpbygrklskmjmvvm JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552824802 622254 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, this fish is salty
< 1552824885 361855 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552825078 290592 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-248-31-71.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1552825253 655004 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-248-31-71.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552825287 898344 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-248-31-71.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PART :#esoteric
< 1552825437 595703 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552825586 977530 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1552825589 58025 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1552828152 374395 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yyblyijcypsxouhm QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1552828786 820277 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@host86-149-143-53.range86-149.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552829717 477333 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I know how I should use the new IRC_TARGET env-var. I can make a noping variant that mangles words only in chnanel, not in private message
< 1552830116 121528 :andrew_!6d5db272@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.93.178.114 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552830131 280298 :andrew_!6d5db272@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.93.178.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello
< 1552831360 98089 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552831557 106537 :andrew_!6d5db272@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.93.178.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup
< 1552831613 965329 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1552831688 246200 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552831716 90953 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552832013 966492 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Saint Anthony of Padua
< 1552832015 298951 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Saint Anthony of Padua? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1552832785 105856 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552832958 673745 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1552833127 72679 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1552833289 808709 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch, what's with people always defining simple languages with a built-in integer addition, multiplication and division operator, but no less-than comparison?
< 1552833480 853043 :andrew_!6d5db272@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.93.178.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno
< 1552833502 791592 :andrew_!6d5db272@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.93.178.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one day i wanna make a golfing language with exactly 128 characters
< 1552833508 613065 :andrew_!6d5db272@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.93.178.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 256, or any power of 2
< 1552833565 146584 :andrew_!6d5db272@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.93.178.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or commands
< 1552833942 803054 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1552835969 573991 :andrew_!6d5db272@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.93.178.114 QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1552836189 118678 :andrew!6d5db272@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.93.178.114 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552836451 429922 :andrew!6d5db272@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.93.178.114 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1552836733 778813 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552837895 24446 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does a language used only for educational purposes count as esoteric?
> 1552837941 209800 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lawrence J. Krakauer's decimal computer14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60524 5* 03B jonas 5* (+796) 10Created page with "Lawrence J. Krakauer's decimal computer was an educational language invented after 1965 for teaching programming to children in a camp.  It was implemented as an emulator on a..."
< 1552837972 298804 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, does a languauge count as implemented if we believe there was an implementation, but it is lost now, such as BANCStar?
< 1552838303 218320 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know; perhaps add neither implemented nor unimplemented category.
< 1552838728 419264 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could try to reimplement BANCStar, but I think not enough is known about it to reimplement it; how many programs with it have been found and which instructions have been used? I don't know what the different function keys means, there is other unknown stuff, and then there is disagreements of what we think it means.
< 1552838870 249595 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I also don't know if modern area codes would be accepted in the old implementation. I had this problem with another database program, so I don't know if BANCStar does too or not.)
< 1552838987 200145 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way
< 1552839030 359862 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :reimplement BANCStar when the last person who wanted to bring an implementation disappeared in suspicious circumstances? I'm not going to tempt the Men in Black or whatever power took him away
< 1552839043 734092 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I want to implement esoteric languages, I have better ones to choose
< 1552839056 341980 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :most importantly Consumer Society, my own language
< 1552839092 952182 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1552839342 279574 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, my current job involves using a commercial GUI framework and try to abuse it in ways it wasn't primarily designed for, and that's already too close to BANCStar programming
< 1552839427 331967 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1552840574 39743 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1552841304 534504 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I'll be laughing about it too when I'll quit, just wait a few months
< 1552841812 887011 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :In those stereotypical cartoons where people throw tomatoes and rotten eggs at a performer, I wonder where they get reliably rotten eggs from? Eggs keep pretty well, and you can tell if they're rotten only once you open them.
< 1552842425 188604 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know? They used a egg rottening device?
< 1552842570 584921 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they do rot reliably if you keep them outside of the fridge for three years or something
< 1552842612 108259 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, maybe, I haven't tried so I don't know (and I do not really intend to try)
< 1552842634 936496 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or... wait, I think I heared something about how there might be a trick to tell if it's rotten without opening the egg, perhaps from how it shakes or shining a strong light through it
< 1552842662 452761 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or with some divination spell
< 1552842677 481236 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there is, then that can help because then you can take out the rotten egg and don't eat it, and yet you can still use it for throwing.
< 1552842796 121334 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, the internet says there are (not quite perfect) ways to tell if it's rotten without opening
< 1552842938 842388 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of them are very reliable
< 1552842947 32843 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552843912 583184 :grumble!~~@freenode/staff/grumble QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1552843940 342175 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552845773 471410 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: eggs last longer if refridgerated, but they also HAVE to be fridged in the USA, because we wash off a protective coating for some reason
< 1552845778 576157 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in most countries eggs are stored at room temp
< 1552846297 607193 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: well, I store them in the fridge, but they're the kind of thing like tomatoes and some other fruit which can be stored either in the fridge or outside
< 1552846322 879318 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for fruits it's more of a tradeoff, for eggs I believe the fridge doesn't hurt them at all
< 1552846343 267197 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1552846358 916357 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have read that eggs last longer in the fridge, my wife may dsypute that though
< 1552846369 632622 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would ask her about fruit but she's busy copying Morse code
< 1552846462 415838 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for fruits it depends a lot on the type of fruit, and also the temperature of the fridge
< 1552846485 94264 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in particular, they say tomatoes may lose some of their taste in the fridge
< 1552846524 439972 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some fruits and vegetables it's obvious: raspberries must be kept in the fridge, potatoes are better kept outside
< 1552846581 958171 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will slow down ripining, which mkes it good for things like avocados
< 1552846595 693928 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it would be cool to have a system wwhich stores open avocados in an oxygen-poor environment
< 1552846726 278732 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a dream where in the future, we won't have fridges at home, but instead a sci-fi stasis cupboard that vibrates the inside at near light speed, so that very little time passes for the things inside between you open the doors
< 1552846743 306678 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1552846769 292555 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :when that becomes usual in household, ice cubes will become less usual, and they'll be something you only get in bars and restaurants, not at home
< 1552847054 323067 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have these cube shaped rocks that you keep in the freezer
< 1552847062 989237 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can put them in a drink to chill it without diluting it
< 1552847072 482320 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they are called whiskey rocks or similar
< 1552847099 223203 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of nice if you have a fancy whisky or such, although I generally drink those neat, more flavor
< 1552847527 344762 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I know those exist
< 1552847536 121374 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the stasis cupboard won't help much for that
< 1552847563 474884 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, at the moment you have such crazy gravity warping devices at home, you'll probably have large homes and might be able to afford a freezer too
< 1552848426 97176 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552848431 547469 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :K-Lined
< 1552849402 242798 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked at the HTTP headers for one webpage because I wanted to see when it was written; I could see no date on the article itself or in the URL. I did not find that information, but there was a "X-hacker" header.
< 1552849933 302190 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that's the unofficial one for advertising jobs to webdevs, right?
< 1552850026 683135 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is what it looks like to me
< 1552851772 127305 :andrew!6d5db272@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.93.178.114 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552851777 129086 :andrew!6d5db272@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.93.178.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey y'all
< 1552851779 246828 :andrew!6d5db272@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.93.178.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :andrew here
< 1552851882 233906 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: but what if the original price was $30 and it went on sale for the current price of $15
< 1552851889 256959 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you'd bite hth
< 1552851898 902779 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: nope
< 1552851914 463682 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is above your price ceiling?
< 1552851984 983337 :andrew!6d5db272@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.93.178.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatchall talking about my cowboys
< 1552852031 686933 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm not really looking for new games to play atm. So pretty much any game will be in the "meh I might try this if it's cheap" category.
< 1552852101 317883 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :andrew:  int-e: Have you played Baba Is You yet?
< 1552852153 542106 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :andrew: Also, these endearments don't fly with me. I find them annoying, not cute.
< 1552852227 69952 :andrew!6d5db272@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.93.178.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that was stupid
< 1552852228 138201 :andrew!6d5db272@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.93.178.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway
< 1552852233 784202 :andrew!6d5db272@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.93.178.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't played baba is you
< 1552852281 454756 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this one is tg, hth
< 1552852290 542592 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that makes sense
< 1552852295 187652 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-248-31-71.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552852751 583667 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you played XYZABCDE.ZZT? It costs only $0
< 1552852831 38541 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1552852879 349581 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone on played any of the new NES/Famicom games written recently?
< 1552852942 375793 :andrew!6d5db272@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.93.178.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1552852946 768908 :andrew!6d5db272@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.93.178.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they turing completw?
< 1552852952 279404 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://archive.org/details/zzt_xyzabcde
< 1552853013 492326 :andrew!6d5db272@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.93.178.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why's iti mportant
< 1552853015 515439 :andrew!6d5db272@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.93.178.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :self promo?
< 1552853059 102728 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the recent ones are Turing complete, but people have tried esolangs with NES/Famicom before, but not any actual game
< 1552853149 629593 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :This game is self promo yes, I wanted to see what are some people's opinion of this, and other comments.
< 1552853163 637051 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't otherwise that important, but you can try if you want to do.
< 1552853216 413844 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I haven't played any sort of videogame for quite a while
< 1552853222 911149 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1552853230 258252 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when I choose to play them, I'll probably play old ones, not new ones
< 1552853238 535696 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1552853261 36596 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although the new ones I am suggesting are working just as well on old computers anyways)
< 1552853373 914700 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have only played it for a few seconds but it seems difficult
< 1552853395 635171 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The animated screenshot there is rather messy)
< 1552853421 410002 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is difficult, although there are many ways to try, as well as cheat codes, and you can set the game speed if you wish, and you can save/restore at any time (including multiple files if you wish)
< 1552853542 738692 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh I may have tried this.
< 1552853572 486813 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric : i tried to shoot all bad guys but they killed me
< 1552853586 789990 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its good though
< 1552853628 668050 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: You might not have enough ammunition; you can find more. It is also possible to outrun the bad guys in some places.
< 1552853636 691010 :andrew!6d5db272@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.93.178.114 QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1552853844 587082 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You also do not have to go directly east from the start; you can try other locations too. (Nobody will kill you in the library.)
< 1552854651 381522 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tpbygrklskmjmvvm QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1552855289 566104 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-248-31-71.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The books about weather were destroyed by rain, the books about cooking were cooked and destroyed by the heat, the books about astronomy were taken in a space ship and they seem to have never been returned, the books about police were confiscated by the police, the books about termites were eaten by termites, and the books about about invisibility magic suddenly turned invisible somehow, making it hard to read." - oh irony!
< 1552855574 604516 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1552856085 930675 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... give me a version without hazards (monsters, devices shooting) and darkness (torches run out quickly) and I might enjoy wandering around a bit. But as is, I can see five rooms, then I die. Well I actually got past the south room but there was little fun in that.
< 1552856250 92994 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are cheat codes. Type a question mark, and then type what you want: "ammo", "health", "gems", or "torches". You can also type "-dark" to get rid of darkness (and "dark" to add darkness).
< 1552856254 746548 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I just want to play a game where I die constantly and quickly I'll play a round of Tower of Guns :P
< 1552856345 992757 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also "zap", which destroys the objects on the four adjacent tiles to the player, but don't do that when standing next to the edge of the board; a bug in ZZT causes problems if you do that.
< 1552856589 959483 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some other cheat codes too: "keys" gives you all seven keys, and "+debug" tells you the memory usage.
< 1552856727 593003 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, and "time" gives you more time when in timed areas (using it elsewhere will make an internal counter negative, and some of the game logic will fail to work properly in this case).
< 1552858442 234917 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the area north of the starting room, use the "+lever" cheat code to get rid of the shooting.
< 1552859260 329005 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552861446 535201 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552861580 976176 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1552862494 328891 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552862527 771070 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552863783 135274 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mjisrcmfbscmpuwa JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552863887 953068 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-248-31-71.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl QUIT :Quit: TheWild
< 1552864578 55868 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552865031 541211 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
> 1552865460 590804 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:String rewriting paradigm14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60525 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+1464) 10Misnamed language?
< 1552866869 680165 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking at the free chapter of the Manga Guide to Linear Algebra, already learned something I didn't know (the distinction between range and codomain)
< 1552866928 784748 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: rebooting
< 1552866998 726737 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552867172 886688 :MDead!~MDude@71.50.54.203 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552867306 873890 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.54.203 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1552867307 640185 :MDead!~MDude@71.50.54.203 NICK :MDude
< 1552867532 607358 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552867824 38954 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :psn,The word "range" should be illegal
< 1552867836 898330 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"codomain" and "image" are good words
< 1552867928 32438 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:89e7:e726:3d21:6a1c PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: range is just another word for the image of the domain
< 1552867965 39548 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should not make the words to be illegal.
< 1552868048 203913 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should make all words illegal.
< 1552868051 465564 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Language was a mistake.
< 1552868825 572328 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552868848 548556 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1552868889 546860 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1552869366 660955 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting
< 1552869367 623060 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: No, some people use "range" to mean "image" and some people use "range" to mean "codomain".
< 1552869373 870547 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is why the word should be illegal.
< 1552869422 940481 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: Did you play Baba is You yet?
< 1552869466 938046 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:89e7:e726:3d21:6a1c PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1552869480 538979 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:89e7:e726:3d21:6a1c PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I've played a bit of it
< 1552869480 860164 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it tg
< 1552869486 254688 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1552869492 163000 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:89e7:e726:3d21:6a1c PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty great
< 1552869655 251772 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552869903 263682 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
> 1552870604 601361 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rockstar14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60526&oldid=58713 5* 03Dylanbeattie 5* (+210) 10
> 1552870708 538374 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rockstar14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60527&oldid=60526 5* 03Dylanbeattie 5* (+70) 10/* Project Pages */
> 1552870743 737991 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rockstar14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60528&oldid=60527 5* 03Dylanbeattie 5* (-1) 10/* Project Pages */
> 1552870761 60563 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rockstar14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60529&oldid=60528 5* 03Dylanbeattie 5* (+0) 10/* Implementations */
> 1552871038 327149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rockstar14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60530&oldid=60529 5* 03Dylanbeattie 5* (+234) 10/* Implementations */
< 1552872907 303405 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@host86-149-143-53.range86-149.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: john_metcalf
< 1552874446 402596 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1552876168 963305 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552876427 944407 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1552877321 511846 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552877374 483196 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I thought it always meant image
< 1552877412 358574 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen it used to mean codomain.
< 1552877420 498012 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Range_(mathematics) agrees
< 1552877426 82750 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: you should babajam
< 1552877427 505529 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's tg
< 1552877654 86045 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-flueywiblfaggmwa QUIT :Changing host
< 1552877654 86120 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@unaffiliated/tswett JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552877654 86128 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@unaffiliated/tswett QUIT :Changing host
< 1552877654 169139 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-flueywiblfaggmwa JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552879361 615452 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ?
< 1552879395 884075 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :play the game baba is you
< 1552880009 7304 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it
< 1552880066 519318 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :puzzle game
< 1552880082 736090 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7MJljsoUSo
< 1552882085 270600 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552882154 895488 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: not baba is yo
< 1552882156 839678 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you
< 1552882230 20365 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :not rock is you
< 1552882238 658166 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1552882240 375051 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is spoilers
< 1552882245 721124 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :please ignore
< 1552882353 268989 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1552882868 270795 :yaewa!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552882952 626590 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1552883755 539116 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought some esolangs related stuff could be involved in xyzabcde2 game.
> 1552884888 997942 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Yevano 5*  10New user account
> 1552885054 749914 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60531&oldid=60501 5* 03Yevano 5* (+182) 10/* Introductions */
< 1552885133 38437 :Yevano!~Yevano@107-199-161-201.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552885426 532360 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1552886000 633011 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, less doesn't find matches with / if there is a null character before it on that line.
< 1552887424 725656 :Yevano!~Yevano@107-199-161-201.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1552888572 821355 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552888854 793821 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1552890130 342479 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mjisrcmfbscmpuwa QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1552891331 42048 :yaewa!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving...
< 1552892280 453739 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :
< 1552895063 972152 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552895072 348106 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552895088 960825 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552899737 937419 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.0.201 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1552899782 606136 :sparr!~sparr@pdpc/supporter/active/sparr QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1
< 1552899814 355128 :sparr!~sparr@2604:a880:800:10::103:f001 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552900020 725342 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552900384 75826 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552903056 675730 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :
< 1552903447 774385 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oesbwblkngzrvkqv JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552904834 963660 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552907684 649154 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552910750 450322 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ksxdopahnakrjbqi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552911231 935305 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oesbwblkngzrvkqv QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1552912102 507846 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1552912167 561791 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
> 1552912237 889016 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03MentallyProblematic 5*  10New user account
< 1552913287 46526 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1552916514 774719 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-orukwsliyxhleomz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552916734 205584 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1552916821 248918 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.0.201 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552917330 212264 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552919353 539398 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552919527 492184 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1552919724 509279 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552919768 361196 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552919793 503148 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552919878 485776 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1552920696 731513 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1552921504 205737 :sparr!~sparr@2604:a880:800:10::103:f001 QUIT :Changing host
< 1552921504 205786 :sparr!~sparr@pdpc/supporter/active/sparr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552925227 537694 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552925310 965120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552925322 947373 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552925342 82441 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ping
< 1552925343 263995 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong
< 1552925365 270329 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1552927037 929936 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
> 1552929031 505410 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nope.14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60532&oldid=60513 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+205) 10
< 1552930044 831028 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552930276 920228 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAA
< 1552930308 974536 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :screen freezes when I attach to it
< 1552930351 165802 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( don't do that then )
< 1552930361 230344 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nyaa
< 1552930369 589540 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :screen is very crusty software
< 1552930424 232384 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION usually blames some ^S^Q shenanigans
< 1552930446 325310 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have like 30 ssh-agent processes running
< 1552930486 337611 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaagh I guess I'll just kill everything
< 1552930599 549396 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a command to "kill everything except this bash and ssh instance"
< 1552931328 328931 :LKoen!~LKoen@lfbn-idf2-1-273-77.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552931802 617874 :LKoen!~LKoen@lfbn-idf2-1-273-77.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552932039 928867 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1552933275 887794 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552934461 554056 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00b4f6a71ff80dce79.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552935500 759555 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-162.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552935672 67229 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-162.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1159
< 1552935672 571156 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1159: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
< 1552938639 162506 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@2601:602:8500:d0d1:1940:1e0c:3911:7f27 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552938878 814626 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ksxdopahnakrjbqi QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1552939803 249200 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.0.201 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1552940381 281007 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552941062 178314 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/oswg-member/yorick JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552942584 44851 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552942905 789767 :incomprehensibly!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jwuhiinvzfrlsgwy NICK :glowcoil
< 1552943668 290770 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00b4f6a71ff80dce79.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552943861 667081 :LKoen_!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a001c17d2a1f09aaee2.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552946017 453667 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-162.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ +/8 4 4 4 4
< 1552946846 788386 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552947686 914220 :LKoen_!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a001c17d2a1f09aaee2.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552947794 481528 :LKoen!~LKoen@lfbn-idf2-1-273-77.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552947862 759637 :asie!~asie@asie.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552947987 296684 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1552948018 126336 :Yevano!~Yevano@2600:380:773b:b2b4:ecd0:5372:bd83:903a JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552948057 985905 :LKoen!~LKoen@lfbn-idf2-1-273-77.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552948279 416503 :bobby!~Bob@76.202.115.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
> 1552948294 387316 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:String rewriting paradigm14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60533&oldid=60525 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+2) 10/* Very Misnamed? */ fix bug in !, should remove char from current string when pushing to stack
< 1552948310 565531 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a004094640b3fe92970.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552948435 714273 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a004094640b3fe92970.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552948562 725074 :bobby!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:cdc7:5c2b:f424:5733 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552948647 293995 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1552948656 793254 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552948816 453887 :LKoen!~LKoen@lfbn-idf2-1-273-77.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552949018 23939 :bobby!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:cdc7:5c2b:f424:5733 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1552949033 30882 :Bob-!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:e087:9915:9acd:d77 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552949135 147407 :Yevano!~Yevano@2600:380:773b:b2b4:ecd0:5372:bd83:903a QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1552949336 721019 :bobby!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:d504:62e2:640f:c79a JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552949392 28055 :Bob-!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:e087:9915:9acd:d77 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1552949901 476759 :bobby!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:d504:62e2:640f:c79a QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552950079 926826 :bobby!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:8df6:fb71:3079:1bbb JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552950090 863009 :LKoen!~LKoen@lfbn-idf2-1-273-77.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Read error: Connection timed out
< 1552950128 194269 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a004861b4d3c26703b3.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552950558 997308 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a004861b4d3c26703b3.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
< 1552950651 233672 :bobby!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:8df6:fb71:3079:1bbb QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552951026 697163 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552951356 553452 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Quit: Bye!
< 1552951377 41882 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552951736 947072 :bobby!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:85e3:bae1:c5de:c626 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552952110 525092 :Bob-!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:5163:928f:49dc:b31b JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552952114 186130 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1552952147 852393 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator QUIT :Quit: Blame iczero something happened
< 1552952180 102811 :bobby!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:85e3:bae1:c5de:c626 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1552952186 227221 :Bowserinator!~Bowserina@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552952247 999450 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1552952524 48338 :Bob-!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:5163:928f:49dc:b31b QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1552952560 997095 :bobby!~Bob@76.202.115.164 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552952847 48381 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1552952996 222953 :Yevano!~Yevano@107-199-161-201.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552953203 500705 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552953824 404601 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : stupid stemmer search, "miserable" is not related to "miser" <-- surely they're from the same latin word, "miser".
< 1552954343 674752 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: i think your stasis cupboard may have the flaw that if it fails you get a nuclear sized explosion
< 1552954372 30062 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :see: various xkcd whatifs
< 1552954381 430628 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well #1 iirc)
< 1552955276 137412 :fmease!fmeasematr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-uiwqjcqipmxuagmh QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1552972847 131443 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :
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< 1552978488 950619 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552978510 600165 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :K-Lined
< 1552978803 304631 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.202.72 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1552982264 256677 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552984370 234785 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-162.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1552985967 709330 :SoniEx2!~quassel@unaffiliated/soniex2 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552985967 973493 :Soni!~quassel@unaffiliated/soniex2 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1552986740 363813 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oarjealefuizzryy JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552986798 290723 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hello!
< 1552987885 212059 :SoniEx2!~quassel@unaffiliated/soniex2 NICK :Soni
< 1552990907 892298 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1552995950 972985 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1552998523 703244 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1552998571 259230 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1552998590 66456 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1552999302 738875 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1552999901 327219 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later
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< 1553001338 53228 :zemhill_______!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :david_werecat.slag: points 16.83, score 42.00, rank 3/47
< 1553001971 697981 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553002311 831673 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O
< 1553002472 103151 :AnotherTest_!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553002472 704489 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1553002472 768926 :AnotherTest_!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be NICK :AnotherTest
> 1553003417 928441 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:David.werecat14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60534&oldid=50855 5* 03David.werecat 5* (+14716) 10Updated BFJoust competitors
< 1553003505 666623 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vfepxcheqsuneyme JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553003574 68316 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idea: BF Joust variant where scores are divided by some function of the program's length
< 1553003802 208066 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553004089 124510 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure why. in theory, aren't you already at a disadvantage through longer time to cycle throughyour program?
< 1553004481 474658 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most large competitors have many branches and thus may not be significantly slower than smaller competitors.
< 1553005190 127683 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1553005495 246528 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553005568 223450 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :On a completely different note, can I regard Set as the full subcategory of Cat restricted to discrete (small) categories?
< 1553005640 956364 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553005665 170894 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Excess Flood
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< 1553005692 979885 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553006506 68807 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1553007137 337718 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553007520 392113 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1553010174 982854 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a note: the following is a list of BFJoust competitors and their sizes:
< 1553010176 789334 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Place  Name                                      Score  Points  Size
< 1553010176 958851 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :1      david_werecat.mist                        52.05  12.36   67
< 1553010176 958916 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :2      Lymia.nyuroki2                            50.56  19.9    9299
< 1553010176 958928 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :3      david_werecat.slag                        42     16.83   173
< 1553010177 860092 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :4      quintopia.space_hotel                     35.96  12.05   334244
< 1553010179 852431 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :5      ais523.growth2                            34.49  11.9    185931
< 1553010181 867958 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :6      ais523.margins3                           33.56  6.52    12028
< 1553010183 801478 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :7      david_werecat.MV                          32.59  12.14   14135
< 1553010185 783834 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :8      ais523.omnipotence                        32.3   11.83   21695
< 1553010187 797008 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :9      david_werecat.jackal2                     29.45  9.38    69
< 1553010189 801537 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :10     quintopia.space_elevator                  28.03  7.71    19635
< 1553010191 793720 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :11     ais523.preparation                        27     7.29    34356
< 1553010193 795403 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :12     david_werecat.antigen                     24.53  5.48    205
< 1553010195 797310 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :13     ais523.monolith                           23.81  4.33    195
< 1553010197 876765 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :14     Oj742.quicklock                           22.44  3.64    14117
< 1553010199 429949 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :15     mroman.cupnoodles                         22.4   3.21    92
< 1553010201 460102 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :16     mroman_.cupnoodles                        22.4   3.21    92
< 1553010203 488063 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :17     StackOverflow.Sp3000_ParanoidBot          21.02  3.19    18637
< 1553010205 495596 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :18     david_werecat.atom                        20.93  0.38    28
< 1553010209 544234 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :19     david_werecat.neutrino                    20.19  0       96
< 1553010211 503136 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :20     Lymia.finnel                              19.69  -0.17   55
< 1553010213 508427 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :21     david_werecat.xurtle                      19.32  -0.24   62
< 1553010215 510237 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :22     ais523.hippo_ballerina                    17.82  -2.76   1651
< 1553010217 512658 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :23     ais523.optimism                           17.7   -2.26   78
< 1553010219 516535 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :24     ais523.stealth2                           17.38  -3.81   954
< 1553010221 518721 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :25     david_werecat.pheonix                     17.21  -2.4    115
< 1553010223 521490 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :26     david_werecat.leviathan                   17.19  -2.74   146
< 1553010225 524846 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :27     ais523.margins                            16.39  -2.4    618
< 1553010227 544243 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :28     david_werecat.dreadnought                 15.64  -3.88   5148
< 1553010229 540823 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :29     ais523.slowpoke                           15.61  -3.86   7100
< 1553010231 535943 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :30     ais523.anticipation2                      15.55  -2.74   188182
< 1553010233 539575 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :31     SuperJedi224.Hyper                        15.23  -5.45   100
< 1553010235 558759 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :32     ais523.death_to_defence                   15.12  -6.17   827
< 1553010239 563115 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :33     Oj742.smartlock                           15.09  -5.86   343489
< 1553010241 553243 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :34     web.TellsToBeat                           14.81  -6.6    195
< 1553010243 571311 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :35     david_werecat.behemoth                    14.79  -5.88   199
< 1553010245 559466 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :36     mroman_.funky                             14.41  -7.02   157
< 1553010247 563353 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :37     Gregor.furry_furry_strapon_pegging_girls  14.22  -4.79   114923
< 1553010249 577149 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :38     quintopia.brachiation                     13.98  -6.24   342
< 1553010251 591600 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :39     mroman_.athena                            13.96  -7.67   61
< 1553010253 574389 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :40     mroman_.snail                             13.76  -7.71   54
< 1553010255 577519 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :41     ais523.sometimes                          13.69  -6.19   23
< 1553010257 580316 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :42     kerbal.Checkers                           13.64  -7      144
< 1553010259 597849 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :43     AndoDaan.BeatYouMate                      13.61  -8.38   194
< 1553010261 587315 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :44     mroman_.strapon_fuck_machine              12.99  -8.71   75
< 1553010263 589212 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :45     oerjan.pathetic                           11.84  -9.83   18
< 1553010264 205559 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck you
< 1553010265 592456 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :46     oerjan.lame_horse                         11.84  -9.83   22
< 1553010269 620050 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :47     web.very_suicidal                         11.82  -10.79  30
< 1553010515 530788 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is that lock loop in mist
< 1553010563 877455 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised that Nyuroki's anti-defense loop doesn't clear it
< 1553010672 238108 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was originally (+-++)*-1, but I found (+-++-+++)*-1 later via brute-force
< 1553010685 484825 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works unusually well
< 1553010724 156672 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not just at locking programs, but at forcing them off the end of the tape)
< 1553010765 276271 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nyuroki assumes its anti-defense loop will clear shudder locks.
< 1553010810 121884 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I guess that loop specifically avoids it.
< 1553010840 509649 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a billion copies of the anti-defense loop, so. I wonder if I can make it effectively choose randomly
< 1553010858 342409 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd prevent a specifically chosen defense loop from doing this.
< 1553010865 663047 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it'd have to be effective against every defense loop.
< 1553010872 107516 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :anti-defense*
< 1553011009 310409 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :True; at the very least the anti-defense loop could be different for each branch.  Given that different tape sizes will typically yield different branches, it could work most of the time.
< 1553011110 208214 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vfepxcheqsuneyme QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1553011202 35332 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, maybe not in Nyuroki.  It appears that most of the branching is due to the checks on the decoy setup.
< 1553011456 943123 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and to break out of clear loops)
< 1553012033 372938 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, I'm surprised that mist made it to first place; it started as a joke.  I didn't think that a strategy like that would do well.
< 1553012439 957356 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for the random anti-defense, that would be far easier to do in LuaJoust (adjust the seed each cycle and do additional modifications on any conditional operator)
< 1553012773 636000 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Synchronization seems to have been the key here.
< 1553012782 915525 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :It turns 10% wins into 100% wins.
< 1553012803 669562 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :And given that, you can brute force a defense loop that works very well against the current hill more than likely
< 1553013059 826238 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.  In fact, just that part of the strategy alone made it up to 16th place.  I tried more sophisticated synchronization strategies but didn't find one of hand-editable size that worked well.
< 1553013108 864270 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other half of the strategy is the weird attack loop (which is tuned against the defense programs on the current hill).
< 1553013143 217105 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, mist only does well because it's optimized against the current "meta".
< 1553013269 381362 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, running an amalgamation of the current hill, the Codu hill, and the StackOverflow hill yields scores where mist doesn't do nearly as well.
< 1553013344 577663 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IIRC, I ran the test on my home computer and don't have the logs with me right now)
< 1553014394 204047 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553014802 437931 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00746c9e41fcccab9f.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553015218 917960 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00746c9e41fcccab9f.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1553015457 423773 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a002c724dfa99d1a17e.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553016013 559449 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553016884 44404 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553017290 71905 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-16.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553018982 658210 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a002c724dfa99d1a17e.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1553020389 396019 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553020389 476899 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host
< 1553020389 476937 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553022022 537191 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0051f164ed538a01cb.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553022564 907257 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0051f164ed538a01cb.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1553022581 546006 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0051f164ed538a01cb.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553025294 669176 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-95-40-93-115.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553026056 244043 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-16.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? dog
< 1553026057 734874 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :dog? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1553027184 979741 :david_werecat!~david_wer@kntaon1614w-grc-07-174-92-68-147.dsl.bell.ca QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1553027713 136148 :dub!4a57eec3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.87.238.195 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553027793 618742 :dub!4a57eec3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.87.238.195 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1553027879 100905 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553029157 533669 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\x. x x) (\x. x x)
< 1553029159 443934 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : :1:4: error: parse error on input ‘.’
< 1553029166 268203 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\x -> x x) (\x -> x x)
< 1553029168 194650 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : error:
< 1553029168 194690 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :     • Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: t0 ~ t0 -> t
< 1553029168 194699 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :       Expected type: t0 -> t
< 1553029287 921799 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1553029312 607553 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to define names to type it, right?
< 1553029446 308702 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure you can
< 1553029855 938870 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1553029874 511293 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know you can circumvent the type problems that break the Y combinator
< 1553029905 606152 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi kmc
< 1553029950 264204 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently? https://stackoverflow.com/questions/33546004/is-it-possible-to-define-omega-combinator-%CE%BBx-xx-in-modern-haskell
< 1553029982 458572 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you can define Y and this thing with negative recursion.
< 1553030039 604267 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :prove it
< 1553030055 165037 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :you prove it
< 1553030057 67240 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-16.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you can put a data type between it
< 1553030066 478549 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-16.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :one with a constructor, not a synonym
< 1553030072 222335 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The type error tells you what to do.
< 1553030078 944573 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cannot construct infinite type t0 ~ t0 -> t
< 1553030091 119815 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So define a type T0 where T0 ~ T0 -> T
< 1553030173 888905 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-16.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I already mentioned the olvashato program http://math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/olvashato/t2n.olv which does something like this
< 1553030194 854148 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-16.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not quite the Y combinator, but it still does recursion without using the built-in named recursion calls, with just lambdas and named types
< 1553030251 405278 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-16.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could write the Y combinator that way too
< 1553030273 494714 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-16.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't really need to, because the language allows you to just call named functions recursively, but still
< 1553030276 961551 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let newtype Rec a = Rec { runRec :: Rec a -> a }
< 1553030277 966443 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : .L.hs:166:31: error:
< 1553030278 42876 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :     Ambiguous occurrence ‘Rec’
< 1553030278 42929 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :     It could refer to either ‘Lambdabot.Plugin.Haskell.Eval.Trusted.Rec’,
< 1553030309 792232 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-16.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1553030314 184912 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let newtype Curry a = Curry { runCurry :: Curry a -> a }
< 1553030315 555527 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined.
< 1553030365 904338 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Rec a = InR { outR :: Rec a -> a }
< 1553030370 685080 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1553030374 840687 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let why :: (a -> a) -> a; why f = (\x -> runCurry x x) (Curry (\x -> f (runCurry x x)))
< 1553030376 192528 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : ghc: panic! (the 'impossible' happened)
< 1553030376 232051 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :   (GHC version 8.2.2 for x86_64-unknown-linux):
< 1553030376 271555 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :         Simplifier ticks exhausted
< 1553030384 169098 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Oh, InR/outR
< 1553030414 255143 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no clue why it's there instead of L.hs though.
< 1553030431 708181 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :historical accident.
< 1553030435 516721 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, this is the same deal as Curry's paradox.
< 1553030442 874495 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"if this sentence is true, then a"
< 1553030472 212446 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I see it's still a good way to exhaust ghc's simplifier. I was wondering about that.
< 1553030640 564951 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-16.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh
< 1553032172 413259 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-95-40-93-115.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :do we love Turing tar-pits here, right?
< 1553032192 416064 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-95-40-93-115.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :how I'm going to add two numbers on this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iota_and_Jot
< 1553032879 72147 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it in combinatory logic and then replace S, K and I by the corresponding iota terms?
< 1553033094 48306 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1553033155 3836 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-95-40-93-115.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combinatory_logic
< 1553033169 708893 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-95-40-93-115.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading this is as painful as reading arbitrary RFC
< 1553033354 178340 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/Combinatory_logic is perhaps less overwhelming
< 1553033680 149827 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-16.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/Combinatory_logic doesn't really talk about numbers or algebraic types IIRC
< 1553033746 425129 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-16.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the name for that technique where you translate algebraic data types (like products and distinguished sums) into combinatory logic?
< 1553033755 674232 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-16.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC it was named of someone
< 1553033780 915684 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-16.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :TheWild: there's of course always http://www.madore.org/~david/programs/unlambda/
< 1553034362 381219 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-95-40-93-115.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading unlambda... I mean, not reading, it's impossible ;)
< 1553034406 786484 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-95-40-93-115.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't get it how functions fighting functions using functions could produce a single bit.
< 1553034587 308195 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-16.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :TheWild: well, you eventually need some sort of I/O primitives, either Haskell style or with side effects
< 1553034923 216617 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's tromp's Binary Lambda Calculus (which basically follows the main :: [Char] -> [Char] model)
< 1553035005 227477 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm https://esolangs.org/wiki/Lambda_calculus gives a glimpse at Church numerals
< 1553035150 216184 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So basically that's what you do in pure lambda calculus: represent data as special kinds of functions. It takes a while to get used to, but it can be fun. It's not terribly useful though.
< 1553035183 426143 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-16.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think of it as first representing the data as algebraic data types, untyped, and then encoding that as functions
< 1553035184 182466 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder whether wikipedia has an articule on Church encodings...
< 1553035189 202137 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-16.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though that's not, strictly speaking, necessary
< 1553035249 456362 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1553035273 95700 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? articule
< 1553035273 931576 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :articule? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1553035298 492623 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must have been feeling particularly articulate there.
< 1553035687 285481 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-dohdopctydtqzzoe QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1553035725 684146 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-utidlobdczmxljhu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553036262 172307 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-95-40-93-115.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sane language you know?
< 1553036449 869569 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-95-40-93-115.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, let it be JavaScript. Did I get iota right? https://kopy.io/DFPdI
< 1553036453 832334 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving...
< 1553036683 958305 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0051f164ed538a01cb.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
< 1553037207 940997 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-95-40-93-115.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl QUIT :Quit: TheWild
< 1553039413 896179 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting
< 1553039484 673964 :zemhill_______!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :web.silly-pi: points -33.19, score 3.14, rank 47/47
< 1553039511 732228 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh.
< 1553041699 271639 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553041781 265567 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's this
< 1553041862 669495 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1553041866 514011 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1553042052 540518 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume the gist of the joke was that score.
< 1553042107 93068 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a web submission form at https://zem.fi/bfjoust/ although you don't get to use your nickname, all programs submitted from there are "web.*".
< 1553042136 47658 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah it's a bfjoust result
< 1553042211 520021 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-16.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1553043308 902897 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1553043374 98401 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553045335 971473 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
> 1553046248 833182 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:String rewriting paradigm14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60535&oldid=60533 5* 03Salpynx 5* (-2) 10Undo revision 60533 by [[Special:Contributions/Salpynx|Salpynx]] ([[User talk:Salpynx|talk]]) actually it's more interesting in the original form, and prob not a bug
< 1553046505 523628 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` cp src/hello*.c tmp; cd tmp; gcc -o hello hello.c; gcc -o hello2 hello2.c
< 1553046507 512735 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1553046516 499021 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls tmp
< 1553046517 32085 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :UnicodeData.txt \ a \ b \ a.c \ a.out \ hello \ hello.c \ hello2 \ hello2.c \ paste \ perm10 \ rakudo-star-2018.06 \ spline \ spout \ spout.raw
< 1553046528 487199 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`tmp/hello
< 1553046528 871018 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world!
< 1553046531 263410 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`tmp/hello2
< 1553046531 654547 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1553046549 104734 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat tmp/hello2.c
< 1553046549 487268 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :const char main[] = "AXAYAZA[A\\ATX-pppp-0```- ///P^VTXH10XP4>40PZ414>P_\x0f\x05XATASARAQAP\xc3Hello, world!\n";
< 1553046610 674824 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That always makes me think of AT commands for some reason.
< 1553046617 830573 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's the "ATX-pppp-0" part.
< 1553046655 539283 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello2.c seems to have bitrotted. i was trying to test them because of a question in PPCG chat.
< 1553046749 92179 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back in the olden (or at least moderately moldy) days, you could use "ping -p 2b2b2b415448300d0a" to disconnect people from IRC.
< 1553046784 739346 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`file tmp/hello2
< 1553046785 256858 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tmp/hello2: ELF 64-bit LSB shared object, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2, for GNU/Linux 2.6.32, BuildID[sha1]=a83df14d01723d512f38d7545549f6275133454f, not stripped
< 1553046803 326309 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`tmp/hello2
< 1553046803 734315 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1553046828 885053 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url tmp/hello2.c
< 1553046829 452603 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/tmp/hello2.c
< 1553046886 286545 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat tmp/hello2.c
< 1553046886 768035 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :const char main[] = "AXAYAZA[A\\ATX-pppp-0```- ///P^VTXH10XP4>40PZ414>P_\x0f\x05XATASARAQAP\xc3Hello, world!\n";
< 1553046906 525080 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :write(1, 0xd7ef86c0, 14) = -1 EFAULT
< 1553046912 94253 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what's happened to it.
< 1553046975 366703 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it could even be collateral damage from some security feature. On my home system, it just plain segfaults except with "-fuse-ld=gold". (With that, it has the same behavior of not crashing but just not printing anything.)
< 1553047004 441831 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1553047029 584792 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the originals were put in the bot back in 2013 by Jafet
< 1553047050 598322 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't remember if e made them or copied them from elsewhere
< 1553047071 69391 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The disassembled code looks kinda odd, but printable x86 always does.
< 1553047096 168682 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not entirely prinable
< 1553047102 139850 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+t
< 1553047130 941671 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you're right. I wonder why it's that long then.
< 1553047183 285145 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` cd tmp; gcc -O2 -o hello2 hello2.c
< 1553047184 166904 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1553047193 456218 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`tmp/hello2
< 1553047193 853608 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1553047212 497963 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well duh
< 1553047224 816822 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like gcc understands what's happening
< 1553047277 288248 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how it's getting that address for write. I was expecting the usual position-independent tricks (or on x86-64 it's just a lea with rip-relative addressing, which isn't a really a trick) but it just does a bunch of pushing, popping and math.
< 1553047431 464590 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat tmp/hello.c
< 1553047431 891602 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :const short main[] = {18517,58761,49201,49801,49407,51081,3816,0,18432,27749,28524,8236,28535,27762,8548,24074,3762,1295,15536,-207,1295};
< 1553047453 211111 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not accidentally the same?
< 1553047540 840413 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, they look entirely different.
< 1553047578 11471 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's rather simpler, and uses the classic position-independent trick (call+pop).
< 1553047607 401483 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still a little bit more complicated than necessary (since it also exits via syscall), but less so than hello2.
< 1553047630 332143 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic
< 1553047867 758038 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's only 32-bit displacement for RIP-relative addressing, so you'd get a few 0s in there, ... but it's not like that's an issue for a short[].
< 1553048085 161558 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh maybe that's why it's not a string constant
< 1553048103 244019 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.202.72 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1553048383 269737 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1553048453 396749 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can put zero bytes in a string literal.
< 1553048460 678309 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, even in the middle, not just the end.
< 1553048468 687371 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo 'const char main[] = "1\xc0\xff\xc0""1\xff\xff\xc7H\x8d""5\x07\0\0\0""1\xd2\xb2\x0e\x0f\x05\xc3""Hello, world!\n";' | gcc -x c - -o /tmp/hello3 && /tmp/hello3
< 1553048469 526863 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world!
< 1553048477 942855 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's exceedingly ugly, though.
< 1553048783 762228 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in freefall, one of those toys looks a little familiar.
< 1553048819 57574 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fancy
< 1553049255 501265 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess if you do the numbers approach from hello.c, and the sort of straightforward code you'd write under normal circumstances, it's not too bad.
< 1553049259 734557 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo 'const long main[] = {5244310924189237688, 1061160662199711117, 7298297622647799808, 8245940422806826092, 169960556};' | gcc -x c - -o /tmp/hello3 && /tmp/hello3
< 1553049260 558792 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world!
< 1553049454 775462 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another reason why the hello2.c code might've rotten: it starts with a lot of pops, it might be making some assumptions about the initial state of the stack.
< 1553049486 802429 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, that might be how it's arriving at the address of the string to write, and maybe ASLR or something has changed.
< 1553049709 141144 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the nonprintable parts (\x0f\x05 and \xc3) of hello2 are the "syscall" and "ret" instructions, which are pretty hard to work around when you don't have any read-write-execute memory. So I guess it's trying to be maximally printable under those constraints.
< 1553050445 92033 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1553051488 392498 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
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< 1553055470 377682 :Yevano_!~Yevano@107-199-161-201.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1553055808 727512 :Yevano_!~Yevano@107-199-161-201.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net NICK :Yevano
< 1553056029 97609 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553057177 75414 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1553059886 492788 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :
< 1553060609 388312 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553061925 408883 :Yevano!~Yevano@107-199-161-201.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
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< 1553065719 528095 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1553069698 243674 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1553069932 249560 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1553072870 48038 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I may be losing track of what's going on in GG
< 1553074169 954213 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: adu
< 1553076479 78303 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553076785 195504 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@2601:602:8500:d0d1:1940:1e0c:3911:7f27 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1553079590 579940 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@hgv18.internetdsl.tpnet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :do we have PHP equivalent of JSFuck?
< 1553079678 872709 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553079684 481270 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think it will be that easy
< 1553079687 145337 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://bolknote.ru/all/4065/
< 1553079695 882930 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the autocasts of php are much less wild
< 1553080216 173533 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@hgv18.internetdsl.tpnet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks rain1
< 1553080402 218596 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
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< 1553087855 834961 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-utidlobdczmxljhu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
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< 1553088129 168193 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.202.72 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553090452 939140 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553090464 780790 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: sure, but those start with "+++AT", and that hello world thing doesn't have that
< 1553090519 50038 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you tried compiling that to x86_32 by the way? IIRC the original HackEso used that.
< 1553090954 890799 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, didn't work at least out of the box -- it uses "syscall", which IIRC is only available as a Linux system call convention on x86-64. The ones available on x86-32 are the int 0x80 and sysenter paths.
< 1553091355 338206 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: do you mean the syscall instruction, or the syscall libc macro/function?
< 1553091393 19603 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, the syscall instruction is only available on x86_64
< 1553091473 303577 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I see. it has \x0f\x05 in it, which is the syscall instruction, and you suppose that gets ran
< 1553091484 655993 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, have you tried to compile it x86_64?
< 1553091620 564852 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I see
< 1553092644 496744 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
< 1553092702 252379 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1553093995 993302 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@hgv18.internetdsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Quit: TheWild
< 1553094321 400057 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1553094842 604781 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553095401 362442 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553095439 250164 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know how there are some programs and websites where if you participate, you can upload a small avatar image associated with your user account, and then the website displays it in multiple small sizes, right?
< 1553095591 561158 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is that since multiple sizes are involved, such as 32x32 and 24x24 and 16x16 in the case of StackExchange, or 30x30 circular and 24x24 circular in the case of another example, it's hard to make an image that looks good when resized to each of those sizes (plus sometimes a large size).
< 1553095634 490357 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be nice if you could just upload separate images for each resolution, but obviously websites don't want to just allow it, because people could then upload deliberately very different images to confuse others.
< 1553095649 727179 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there's a good solution for this.
< 1553095690 618566 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :When more trust is involved, such as for windows icons, you are allowed to use different images at different resolutions.
< 1553096984 531498 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
> 1553097403 360592 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Sygmei2 5*  10New user account
> 1553097732 855157 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60536&oldid=60531 5* 03Sygmei2 5* (+75) 10/* Introductions */
> 1553097737 139388 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Kitanai14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60537&oldid=50294 5* 03Sygmei2 5* (+586) 10/* Full language Syntax : */
> 1553098044 705355 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Kitanai14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60538&oldid=60537 5* 03Sygmei2 5* (+654) 10/* Standard Library */
> 1553098864 727773 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Kitanai14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60539&oldid=60538 5* 03Sygmei2 5* (-24) 10/* Examples */
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< 1553101980 974907 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell wob_jonas Maybe it could make sense to allow different images, but require some sort of (well-defined and tooled) visual similarity score to be good enough. Although I'm sure some of those might have pathological cases that could still look similar to the machine but different to humans.
< 1553101981 59351 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1553102266 535801 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553103047 47990 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a006c8fc63c6badb8d5.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1553103589 984731 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it's tricky, yes. one problem is that for the small images, you often want to show a crop of the larger image (still scaled down), or a stylized version, and it's hard to make a similarity function that allows good crops but doesn't allow bad crops
< 1553103665 719685 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard even if the uploader is allowed to give some hints to it apart from the image data
< 1553103700 33372 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's hard even for humans
< 1553103702 128458 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well
< 1553103723 185596 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's *supposed* to be easy for humans
< 1553103731 683836 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the end goal is that it can't confuse humans
< 1553103732 867015 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still
< 1553103776 853865 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, even without different resolutions of avatars, there are already some attacks people can try, with similar or identical avatar images and/or similar or identical nicks
< 1553103815 23332 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or users can upload pornographic avatars, but that gets tricky at low resolutions
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< 1553107318 460193 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo 'const char main[] = "%0000%HELOPPPPPPT]5Hell1E XP5o wo1E$XP5rld!1E(XP4@4J1E,4@4GPZ$AP_^^^^T^\x0f\x05XX\xc3";' | gcc -x c - -o /tmp/hello4 && /tmp/hello4
< 1553107319 346123 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello world!
< 1553107340 304386 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, that should be a lot more portable and not really that much longer.
< 1553107360 384228 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's portable because it encodes the payload text inside immediate operands.)
< 1553107460 523719 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be a lot simpler on x86-32, because you can just PUSH imm32 without leaving any gaps. On x86-64, that still decrements the stack pointer by 8.
< 1553107571 254095 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hey
< 1553107627 14349 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but on x86_64, you get RIP-relative addressing. or do you want to use only printable characters?
< 1553107648 123076 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's under the same constraints as the one we were failing to make to work, "only printable except for syscall and ret".
< 1553107658 124798 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, with those exceptions that you explained earlier
< 1553107725 802973 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made one with RIP-relative addressing earlier, it's the one encoded as long[].
< 1553107763 207244 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION seeks and offers hugs
< 1553107800 762987 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh right. in that one, why don't you write the numbers as hexadecimal literals? or use long long, or both? 
< 1553107837 53587 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They were already 64-bit, it was assuming I32LP64.
< 1553107886 339165 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1553107890 22708 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, that makes sense
< 1553107896 91644 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, hexadecimal then
< 1553107907 677762 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, isn't the stack executable if you compile for linux like this? I'll have to test that
< 1553107915 244649 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it isn't on x86_64 or something
< 1553107981 420158 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hexadecimal constants might've saved a little space. Just thought it'd nicely obfuscate the "Hello, world!" string to do decimal. Also, with the "0x" prefixes probably not a big difference.
< 1553108018 904676 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, on my system, neither the stack *nor* the place where read-only data goes were executable.
< 1553108072 838571 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back when I was last playing, string literals and static const char variables were indeed executable, because linkers tended to merge .rodata and .text sections into a single read-and-execute-but-not-write ELF segment.
< 1553108088 387020 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm a.out
< 1553108089 637255 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1553108109 746841 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But at least on my Debian testing + default GCC flags to use classic GNU as, it's no longer the case: .rodata goes in a separate read-only ELF segment, distinct from the read-and-execute .text.
< 1553108132 601774 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So when testing this at home, I have to use "-fuse-ld=gold", which still makes them executable.
< 1553108162 186834 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(gold provides a flag to control this, so "-fuse-ld=gold -Wl,--rosegment" makes them non-executable again.)
< 1553108164 532660 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ok. I'm going to test on HackEso anyway
< 1553108220 682638 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think "no mappings that are both writable and executable by default" has been a standard practice for quite a while now.
< 1553108269 831439 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is (or at least was) a flag you can set on the binary to make stack executable again, though, via something like "-z execstack" at link time.
< 1553108595 78231 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, but for a while it wasn't enforced, because x86 didn't use to have a way to mark pages non-executable (only segments), and then libraries wanted to be compatible with programs that assumed that any readable page is also executable
< 1553108604 3579 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's on x86_32, not on x86_64
< 1553108648 252601 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you are right, the stack isn't executable
< 1553108726 310908 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you are right in what you said
< 1553108743 780453 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could of course get a writable and executable memory area, but you would need to do a system call for that
< 1553108754 320521 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I don't know if there's any other system call interface on x86_64 linux than this
< 1553108840 409656 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :On most x86-64 kernels (those who support 32-bit binaries at all), you can actually call (even from 64-bit code) through the int 0x80 interface.
< 1553108868 10879 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it truncates pointers to 32 bits.
< 1553108901 140922 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 0x80 isn't printable either. :)
< 1553108941 425848 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or 0xcd, for "int".)
< 1553109020 509397 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course you have the full C runtime library available, you could just go and look up the address of write(2) and call that.
< 1553109070 106263 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: can you call them with the sysenter instruction? that one is older than x86_64
< 1553109107 208645 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would assume so, but the opcode for that is "0F 34", which is only half-printable.
< 1553109126 189990 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :full C runtime library => sure, you can just int main(){printf("hello, world");}, or at least refer to a function address in the initializer of a long main[] = { ... };
< 1553109161 99149 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: my guess is no, in that I think syscall was introduced at the same time as x86_64, so there's no reason not to use it as the main syscall interface for x86_64 architecture
< 1553109190 248430 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the main syscall interface, no, I was just assuming it'd support both sysenter and int 0x80 for the 32-bit compatibility layer.
< 1553109194 379653 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't looked that up though.
< 1553109219 681100 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could refer to the address of main in the initializer, to be able to load the address of the literal
< 1553109234 912091 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the 32-bit compatibility layer is for 32-bit code
< 1553109240 142484 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1553109242 527749 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait
< 1553109245 783064 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but as mentioned, you can call it from 64-bit code as well.
< 1553109282 922299 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :does int 0x80 and sysenter actually call to the same kernel routine from 64-bit or 32-bit code, so it would be extra work to check which one is calling?
< 1553109286 385342 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would make sense
< 1553109312 420187 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just sort of assumed that the calls from 32-bit code would naturally land to a different place than the ones from the 64-bit code, but that's stupid
< 1553109317 339564 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not really how x86 works
< 1553109327 883519 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's why there's a syscall instruction!
< 1553109441 80968 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00340637b3c812f54e.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553109470 828588 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm no, it isn't
< 1553109476 874940 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553109479 698483 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're genuinely different
< 1553109492 797589 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded
< 1553109494 210001 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and besides, they could just dispatch by using different syscall numbers
< 1553109519 202970 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there's a slight penalty for that, because the lowest syscall numbers are already used
< 1553109606 103801 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any case, I'm guessing you should be able to call write(/printf/puts) from a fully printable 'const char main[] = "...";'-form program, you'd just have to do the symbol lookup manually. Although that's kind of an odd problem statement in the first place, it's more strict than just "the main function body must be made out of printable bytes".
< 1553109615 530009 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-248-68-130.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553109624 383037 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: they must be different entry points, because the state is different
< 1553109635 509172 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. after int 0x80, there is already a kernel stack and such
< 1553109656 57308 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :after syscall the userspace registers are still in place, except for ip and sp
< 1553109660 950481 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are loaded from MSRs
< 1553109672 368125 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: int vs sysenter vs syscall are different entry points, sure
< 1553109686 708573 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see what you mean now
< 1553109697 489609 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: what I assumed as that int 0x80 called from 32-bit code vs called from 64-bit code were different entry points
< 1553109703 297414 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it wouldn't work that way
< 1553109708 964503 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some Linux demoscene intros that do hash-based symbol lookups to avoid having to include all those long X/OpenGL function names.
< 1553109713 488789 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be extra work for the kernel to distinguish between those
< 1553109723 56322 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hehehe
< 1553109724 716350 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: seems reasonable
< 1553109739 842133 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're all very envious regarding Windows and its ordinal-based imports.
< 1553109776 727728 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that makse sense, though I'd assume they also just compress the whole executable
< 1553109917 196393 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure some do that as well. Although I think most of the innovation happens on the Windows side. There are pretty sophisticated executable packers that do a lot of nontrivial transformations on the code to make it more compressible.
< 1553109933 133476 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for that, how does an x86_64 program call into an x86_32 code sequence in linux? what does it have to ask the kernel? I think the cpu knows the difference from the attributes of the code segment descriptor
< 1553109982 426363 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: sure, but it's hard to put such packers in a smaller demoscene. I was thinking just ordinary compressors, still useful for something not too small, and pre-installed on a linux machine
< 1553110033 699705 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there maybe a segment descriptor with a fixed number that it has to jump to?
< 1553110048 914042 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Farbrausch have released their old kkrunchy tool designed for 64k intros -- http://www.farbrausch.de/~fg/kkrunchy/ -- and I think http://www.crinkler.net/ is the state-of-the-art for 1k/4k intros.
< 1553110067 756454 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how do you ask gcc to do that too?
< 1553110088 309786 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh, 1k and 4k are different. I was thinking more of 64k or 16k intros, sorry
< 1553110100 118847 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly because you mentioned linux
< 1553110110 665469 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1553110144 711834 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus there are some of these browser-based intros
< 1553110300 6951 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's a tiny animation thing for linux I made. it's not trivial to run it on modern linuxen. => https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=793690
< 1553110338 19087 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how mixed 32-bit/64-bit code works on Linux. It might not even be a really full-fledged feature.
< 1553110343 651241 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I'm not sure what the rationale is for the int 0x80 entry point being available for 64-bit code in a 64-bit process. If mixed code was supported, that'd be one good reason. Or it could just be that it was easier to have it than not have it.
< 1553110386 516141 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00340637b3c812f54e.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1553110508 686465 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at http://refspecs.linuxbase.org/
< 1553110525 882098 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think it's because it would be extra work for the kernel to forbid that interface
< 1553110557 62243 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the kernel doesn't want to change the interrupt table just because it switches between processes, and doesn't want to check whether to allow the interface at each syscall entry
< 1553110610 823453 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek this doc is ugly
< 1553110860 439772 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least that doc says that system calls are done using the syscall instruction, and tells how the arguments are passed
< 1553110920 320945 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(syscall number and return value or -errno in RAX; arguments in RDI, RSI, RDX, R10, R8, R9; scratch registers are RCX and R11)
< 1553110964 770466 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't seem to mention how to call 32-bit functions
< 1553111025 620402 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :liiiiiiiiiiinux
< 1553111096 255248 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, this is totally an esoteric only application
< 1553111103 396747 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I certainly don't want to call 32-bit code from a real program
< 1553111323 234059 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be happy when x86_32 will finally be gone except very early to boot the cpu to 64-bit mode in the boot loader
< 1553111345 663969 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and perhaps in the kernel for the same reason
< 1553112969 335506 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jvuunpjzubdepftz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don’t think you can mix 32 and 64 like that
> 1553113712 627052 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Watashiwaanata 5*  10New user account
< 1553113786 199898 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to go into 48 bit mode, obviously :P
< 1553114217 154988 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1553114230 94622 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
> 1553114454 943838 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60540&oldid=60536 5* 03Watashiwaanata 5* (+150) 10/* Introductions */
> 1553115070 640692 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Watashiwaanata14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60541 5* 03Watashiwaanata 5* (+187) 10Created page with "

Watashi wa anata<..." > 1553115463 615815 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Watashiwaanata14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60542&oldid=60541 5* 03Watashiwaanata 5* (-8) 10 < 1553118816 119626 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-248-68-130.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl QUIT :Quit: TheWild < 1553118947 321157 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553119539 398307 :Yevano!~Yevano@107-199-161-201.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553119648 820874 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-191.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1553119824 776578 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lol I made this tool print an error message of "Oren is a moron" when constraints are violated, apparently they are in fact violated < 1553119850 85462 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.202.72 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1553119876 794688 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not violated on my dev machine < 1553120028 162345 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this thing prints out so many error messages that mine have to be avant garde to get user attention < 1553120041 987040 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553120089 577346 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1553120321 673306 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1553121506 73598 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1553122213 146138 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a005da0cdd84fd150cf.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1553122548 928145 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a005da0cdd84fd150cf.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1553122714 120685 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0080ef8f3e88ff3ad1.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1553122838 199001 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0080ef8f3e88ff3ad1.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1553122867 109967 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0080ef8f3e88ff3ad1.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1553122992 228549 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0080ef8f3e88ff3ad1.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1553123007 424707 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0080ef8f3e88ff3ad1.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1553123626 972089 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0080ef8f3e88ff3ad1.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1553124780 684940 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553125736 870919 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1553126959 241759 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553127654 201802 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1553128179 747596 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1553128194 296531 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00e45d3a0c520cfce7.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1553128278 439031 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1553128325 121461 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1553128696 205829 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1553128733 529383 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1553129115 686882 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come to think of it, it's not actually that easy to work around the non-printable characters, since the only printable control transfer instructions are relative jumps with a byte offsets. So even if you can locate a useful function (say, mprotect or puts or exit), there's no way to call it. < 1553129120 712717 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the printable shellcode I've come across kind of assumes self-modification is possible. < 1553129147 462603 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could definitely get by with just ret, though (by using it as an indirect jump, or doing the ROP thing), and while that's not printable ASCII, it is part of many valid and unassuming UTF-8 sequences; e.g. Þ is 'ret; sahf' and ß is 'ret; lahf'. < 1553137274 27084 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553137470 777878 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1553139706 243795 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553139964 220323 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1553140019 116914 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00e45d3a0c520cfce7.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1553144591 424620 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553144751 976571 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1553145193 763529 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : > 1553146574 740855 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Hakerh40014]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60543 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+2213) 10Created user page < 1553146950 964219 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553147201 938744 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1553147299 525091 :Yevano!~Yevano@107-199-161-201.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1553147728 304966 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1553150196 188183 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553150452 213142 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1553153734 956370 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553157394 289478 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.202.72 JOIN :#esoteric < 1553158033 293617 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1553158100 541887 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1553158269 295702 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553159757 325090 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1553160587 262935 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1553161540 233650 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553168646 40447 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1553171473 393225 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1553171525 985724 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1553171619 842172 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1553172714 767821 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1553174726 232306 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1553180639 56986 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1553184391 563749 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1553185955 963889 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1553186146 327464 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-sfsuymeapsleuqmo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1553187764 853681 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BOREDOM14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60544 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+416) 10Created page with "[[BOREDOM]] was made in a time of boredom by [[User:Areallycoolusername|Areallycoolusername]. It needs an infinite number of code to make a successful program. == Specifics =..." > 1553188567 410023 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BOREDOM14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60545&oldid=60544 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+1009) 10 > 1553188611 165657 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BOREDOM14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60546&oldid=60545 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+1) 10 > 1553188703 605554 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60547&oldid=60463 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+42) 10 < 1553189497 687415 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-kzlrfvygcljgwemf JOIN :#esoteric < 1553190006 155623 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00a459532065a0947a.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1553191144 409501 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1553191165 966774 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Functasy14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60548 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+8481) 10Published Functasy < 1553191285 933498 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-20.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric > 1553191306 566934 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Functasy14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60549&oldid=60548 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+4) 10Aligned the code for readability > 1553191448 544784 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Functasy14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60550&oldid=60549 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+55) 10 > 1553191581 799906 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Functasy14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60551&oldid=60550 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+1) 10 > 1553192343 193972 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Functasy14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60552&oldid=60551 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+1) 10 > 1553192458 124042 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60553&oldid=60472 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+15) 10Added Functasy to the language list > 1553192529 618535 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Hakerh40014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60554&oldid=60543 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+18) 10 > 1553192879 84088 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07EnilKode14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60555&oldid=60460 5* 03EnilKoder 5* (+883) 10example programs < 1553192948 893123 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1553193614 215974 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553196781 705596 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-20.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1553197333 237967 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-20.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1553199398 639281 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.6 < 1553200123 670615 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1553200338 414463 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1553200396 996072 :Roger9_!rdococ@cheapiesystems.com QUIT :Changing host < 1553200397 35817 :Roger9_!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ JOIN :#esoteric < 1553200400 91886 :Roger9_!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ NICK :rdococ < 1553201879 779707 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1553203866 989918 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553204129 983333 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1553204196 551712 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1553204728 825371 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553205692 388651 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00a459532065a0947a.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1553207770 78875 :zestymug!43572133@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.87.33.51 JOIN :#esoteric < 1553208488 781245 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I saw a good seagull today < 1553208532 321111 :zestymug!43572133@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.87.33.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Go is a boring language. You're right - it does feel like it's from the 70's. No parametric algebraic sum category monoid types and no fizzle berry jiggleloops. It's like C. It exists to get shit done and not wank off on various blogs how you used it to create yet another DSL for converting medieval Japanese poetry into BDD tests or whatever." < 1553208567 372564 :zestymug!43572133@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.87.33.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how rude < 1553208649 835767 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jvuunpjzubdepftz PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be fair: fuck BDD < 1553208745 401119 :zestymug!43572133@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.87.33.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :go is a language for people stuck in the 70s < 1553208759 697485 :zestymug!43572133@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.87.33.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the average iq was several points below where it is now < 1553208877 304552 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-20.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about java? < 1553208883 901521 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-20.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or C#? < 1553208894 940436 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-20.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they also boring? < 1553208927 765185 :zestymug!43572133@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.87.33.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least they have generics < 1553208938 481482 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-20.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :java just barely has them, yes < 1553208948 158652 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-20.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very useful when everything is dynamic typed < 1553208979 669941 :zestymug!43572133@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.87.33.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :java and c sharp have their own issues < 1553208996 680609 :zestymug!43572133@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.87.33.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :go is idiomatic idiocy < 1553209149 737917 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1553209169 790918 :asie!~asie@asie.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :java's generics are for most people and for the most part compiler sugar < 1553209239 310879 :asie!~asie@asie.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they don't do primitives, only objects... so effectively a way to do compile-time cast generation for interface{} would accomplish roughly the same thing in Go...? < 1553209394 792403 :zestymug!43572133@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.87.33.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the primitive/object distinction is a deficiency of java < 1553209411 278177 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.202.72 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1553209493 410202 :asie!~asie@asie.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :a historical artifact, but last i checked they're trying to fix it alongside adding value types? < 1553209575 470496 :zestymug!43572133@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.87.33.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know how you fix it without breaking backward compatibility < 1553209616 159079 :asie!~asie@asie.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they've been hacking on it for almost 5 years now as Project Valhalla < 1553209633 769145 :zestymug!43572133@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.87.33.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about the "wrapper pattern" < 1553209682 947955 :asie!~asie@asie.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think there's anything changing in java itself in this regard < 1553209692 950012 :asie!~asie@asie.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a few other WIP trees with experimental features though < 1553209705 411378 :zestymug!43572133@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.87.33.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :java sucks < 1553209705 613438 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-20.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :java has backwards compatibility? < 1553209735 65001 :asie!~asie@asie.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the most part? < 1553209737 248845 :zestymug!43572133@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.87.33.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :any language for which to write meaningful code it is required to drudge about writing repetitive "design patterns" < 1553209757 61040 :zestymug!43572133@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.87.33.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably kind of has some deep deficiency < 1553209882 27880 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553210744 865475 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1553210752 16360 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1553210765 222471 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-20.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonsoerjan < 1553210831 936281 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_hellonas < 1553210935 360744 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Taneb I think I may be losing track of what's going on in GG <-- some recent events _may_ be slightly out of order hth < 1553210935 427905 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1553210936 623081 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi kmc < 1553210994 906132 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :lady steelgarter's credit rating did take a hit < 1553211033 632776 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a bad feeling about violetta's continued survival, though, given tarvek's predicted madness < 1553211098 235238 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i should metaphorically slap myself for not suggesting it could be violetta < 1553211338 906113 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't think there's a good solution for this. <-- obviously we need avatar hinting hth < 1553211457 508630 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still use the default assigned icon on SE. i even put those winter bash hats on it. < 1553211484 241113 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or winter whatever they call it) < 1553211543 595133 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also some of us do rampant zooming < 1553211573 949858 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi shachaf < 1553211684 501642 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it seems to me that there has to be software that can heuristically guess if two images are resizings of the same one < 1553211730 538566 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmhic, shellochaf < 1553211912 288494 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-20.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: guessing for existing images is possible. it gets harder if there's a stake for that and so people can try to actively create inputs that defeat it < 1553212217 168542 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`# Preserve fizzie's repaired version//`mk src/hello3.c//const char main[] = "%0000%HELOPPPPPPT]5Hell1E XP5o wo1E$XP5rld!1E(XP4@4J1E,4@4GPZ$AP_^^^^T^\x0f\x05XX\xc3"; < 1553212220 372114 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :src/hello3.c < 1553212244 531492 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1553212266 520634 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally remembered to use `# as originally intended < 1553212283 755432 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat src/hello3.c < 1553212284 166851 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :const char main[] = "%0000%HELOPPPPPPT]5Hell1E XP5o wo1E$XP5rld!1E(XP4@4J1E,4@4GPZ$AP_^^^^T^\x0f\x05XX\xc3"; < 1553212304 615148 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? `# < 1553212305 439608 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`# //` is useful if you want to add a comment to HackEgo history for things like `sled or `le/rn. < 1553212372 713664 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` cd tmp; gcc -o hello3 ../src/hello3.c; ./hello3 < 1553212373 651496 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello world! < 1553212382 786421 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls tmp < 1553212383 280190 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :UnicodeData.txt \ a \ b \ a.c \ a.out \ hello \ hello.c \ hello2 \ hello2.c \ hello3 \ paste \ perm10 \ rakudo-star-2018.06 \ spline \ spout \ spout.raw < 1553212444 245343 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` rm tmp/* < 1553212446 170971 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm: cannot remove 'tmp/paste': Is a directory \ rm: cannot remove 'tmp/rakudo-star-2018.06': Is a directory < 1553212479 235953 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls tmp/ra* < 1553212479 883730 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Configure.pl \ LICENSE \ MANIFEST \ MoarVM \ README \ build_msi.bat \ config.status \ docs \ modules \ nqp \ patches \ ports \ rakudo \ tools < 1553212492 549786 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`which rakudo < 1553212493 4467 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1553212506 436499 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` rm -r tmp/ra* < 1553212523 200364 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1553212531 95182 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1553212558 912204 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls tmp < 1553212559 395366 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :paste < 1553212623 111111 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1553212821 500264 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553213846 819799 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar ENVA < 1553213848 285315 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENVA 212350Z 18011KT CAVOK 01/M04 Q1024 RMK WIND 670FT 21018KT < 1553214095 330827 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` doag | grep '> #' | awk '{print $2}' < 1553214098 196996 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ \ \ \ \ \ < 1553214254 822548 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`doag src/hello3.c < 1553214256 335014 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :11756:2019-03-21 # Preserve fizzie\'s repaired version//`mk src/hello3.c//const char main[] = "%0000%HELOPPPPPPT]5Hell1E XP5o wo1E$XP5rld!1E(XP4@4J1E,4@4GPZ$AP_^^^^T^\\x0f\\x05XX\\xc3"; < 1553214286 134540 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` doag | grep '> #' | grep copp < 1553214288 846460 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1181:2012-12-18 addquote < zzo38> What is portable way of load/save floating points in files, using a C code? < kmc> #ifndef __STDC_IEC_559__ #error Here\'s a nickel, kid. Buy a real computer. #endif < 1553214297 163692 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1553214313 894076 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think coppro has used that nick since i added `# < 1553214560 449207 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1553214712 814232 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1553214714 392138 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1553214816 547445 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe I'm happy with that quote < 1553214822 551108 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it stands the test of time < 1553215358 236263 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1553215611 693961 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sled src/hello3.c//s/x0f/17/;s/x05/5/;s/xc3/303/ < 1553215613 38682 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :src/hello3.c//const char main[] = "%0000%HELOPPPPPPT]5Hell1E XP5o wo1E$XP5rld!1E(XP4@4J1E,4@4GPZ$AP_^^^^T^\17\5XX\303"; < 1553218446 575543 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i advertized that on PPCG's chat < 1553218462 868848 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(s?) < 1553218472 83629 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :s. < 1553218483 908925 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just found a known working MC88110 for sale. < 1553218486 999600 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1553218491 450084 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION celebrate < 1553218610 881755 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^celebrate < 1553218610 921364 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ \m/ \m/ \o_ c.c _o/ \m/ \m/ ಠ_ಠ \o/ c.c |o/ < 1553218653 107613 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the same since the monqy exodus. < 1553218705 326734 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? monqy < 1553218706 176210 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy is no longer extant. He lives in concept, hidden, unfindable. You could ask itidus21 for details, if you find him. < 1553218722 66251 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i think i may be confusing people < 1553218736 618444 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grwp feet < 1553218738 48154 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :limerick:A limerick is a verse with two left metrical feet and three right metrical feet. \ myndzi:myndzi used to keep us all on our feet. < 1553218745 13766 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi it was. < 1553218760 995196 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I've been working on a "proper" printable version, in the something that fits in the same 'const char main[]' form but uses only valid UTF-8 printable Unicode characters (to make 'ret' available). < 1553218767 792915 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But since it can't use syscall (0f 05 is just not okay), it's a lot more complicated. I have a non-printable version now for looking up "puts" and "exit" via ELF auxiliary vector -> program header -> PT_DYNAMIC section -> DT_DEBUG entry -> struct link_map list of linked libs -> string/symbol tables of all loaded libraries. < 1553218776 275157 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's already 214 bytes without any work to make it printable. < 1553218809 949881 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it cheating to use the dynamic linker? < 1553218815 746933 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you could look for a PLT entry < 1553218818 951830 :zestymug!43572133@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.87.33.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1553218821 900804 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1553218828 382864 :zestymug!43572133@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.87.33.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is < 1553218829 829841 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also a syscall instruction in the VDSO isn't there < 1553218837 379793 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Not in x86-64 any more. < 1553218844 33355 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or... you could just scan all of +x memory for 0f 05 < 1553218848 621614 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Or, I mean, yes, there's three syscall instructions, but not one just for calling. < 1553218858 209833 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but you can jump to any point can't you < 1553218862 493255 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jvuunpjzubdepftz PRIVMSG #esoteric :you’ve read the tom7 printable compiler paper right? < 1553218864 894006 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it might be hard to get control back < 1553218866 315118 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes < 1553218875 650478 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :tom7 is a mad genius < 1553218879 124316 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yes, but there's usually annoying code after, and in any case it doesn't feel right relying on those sort of offsets. < 1553218888 113368 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well, fair enough < 1553218893 795918 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scanning memory for the right thing would presumably work though. < 1553218968 338738 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( until the compilers start putting in traps to prevent it ) < 1553219008 178851 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I gave some thought about using the int 0x80 syscall interface, because "int 0x80" is printable (U+0340 COMBINING GRAVE TONE MARK), but the problem with that is that there's no mappings below the 2G limit, and that thing's "write" can only push through 32 bits of pointers. < 1553219009 926771 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or kernels, whatever < 1553219044 229997 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the mmap syscall on x86-32 takes the arguments packed into a struct, so you'd need a pointer in order to get some memory you can point at. < 1553219222 241342 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you use the stack for that, though? < 1553219249 246651 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, because the stack is somewhere around 0x7ffe70532000. < 1553219281 510396 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So a pointer to something on it would get truncated. < 1553219307 134370 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's very arbitrary that I'm trying to make this a x86-64 binary. If I just compiled it with -m32, it'd be simple. < 1553219354 767341 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yeah < 1553219378 19284 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're not allowed to define any symbols but 'main', right? < 1553219399 271637 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's not like there's a law. But that's what I've been operating under. < 1553221963 134691 :zestymug!43572133@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.87.33.51 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1553222218 648195 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : > 1553222233 357995 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03W3Rn1ckz 5* 10New user account > 1553222406 600282 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60556&oldid=60540 5* 03W3Rn1ckz 5* (+258) 10/* Introductions */ > 1553224492 278620 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Functasy14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60557&oldid=60552 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (-43) 10/* Advanced examples */ < 1553225868 176789 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera NICK :redbutt < 1553226844 420275 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553226979 468696 :redbutt!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera NICK :izabera < 1553229093 611043 :^[!sid43445@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/sixth/zgrep QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1553229127 325977 :ProofTechnique!sid79547@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uxucyhmbsiwggoqq QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1553229188 344534 :dingwat!uid70835@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-necthraxpzglljqy QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1553229265 17914 :ProofTechnique!sid79547@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ygqddjrygpqluieg JOIN :#esoteric < 1553229265 616059 :^[!sid43445@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/sixth/zgrep JOIN :#esoteric < 1553229366 1745 :dingwat!uid70835@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dwskxtowtqvdastb JOIN :#esoteric < 1553230058 654993 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1553230307 813469 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553230599 727887 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1553234192 474176 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1553236807 45537 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553237063 972863 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1553240868 253507 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-20.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :" If I just compiled it with -m32, it'd be simple." => no, it wouldn't be, because HackEso doesn't have the necessary system headers installed so you can't easily compile to x86_32 with gcc with the default options < 1553241751 484908 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553242524 495234 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-20.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And the mmap syscall on x86-32 takes the arguments packed into a struct" => are you sure? because it only has six arguments, and the linux man-pages don't mention that. can you use the ipc system call to map a sysvipc shared memory segment instead? < 1553242657 727680 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-20.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's the socket syscalls that take argument the way you describe: http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man2/socketcall.2.html < 1553242866 286681 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-20.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: and http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man2/syscall.2.html confirms that syscalls take up to six arguments on x86_32 < 1553242877 674562 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-20.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the int80 interface < 1553243005 531644 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-20.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man2/mmap.2.html and http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man2/mmap2.2.html describe the specific syscall < 1553245436 812889 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-20.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1553245534 604251 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1553247005 185670 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.202.72 JOIN :#esoteric < 1553247405 571463 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1553247494 591760 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553247499 79453 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553248675 732103 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553249398 237810 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1553249580 259957 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell b_jonas No, the man pages describe the C wrappers. See https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/mm/mmap.c#L1624 < 1553249580 341106 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1553249586 917924 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell b_jonas However, it seems like only the "legacy" mmap call uses the struct wrapper, and the more modern mmap_pgoff (the one that takes page offset and is behind mmap2) is defined via SYSCALL_DEFINE6, so should in fact be callable: https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/mm/mmap.c#L1616 < 1553249587 1823 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1553249596 36359 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell b_jonas I know you can pass 6 arguments via the in 0x80 interface, I don't know why the old_mmap call packs them in a struct. Maybe the interface was slightly different in olden times. < 1553249596 107768 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1553249754 813356 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1553251427 393632 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vaguely remember that an old, old syscall interface took fewer arguments than that < 1553252137 183226 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturally; x86 simply had fewer registers to spare < 1553252376 49106 :dingwat!uid70835@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dwskxtowtqvdastb QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1553252461 565263 :dingwat!uid70835@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ugcbaelohapwjhdf JOIN :#esoteric < 1553254488 916015 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, or so I thought. They're using all 7 of them now, even ebp, which I expected to be left out. < 1553255357 825212 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow, why did I never see ELVM before? https://github.com/shinh/elvm < 1553255361 960709 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow I am not surprised at the author < 1553255391 689852 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's a C compiler modified to support a range of esolangs as backends, e.g. it can compile to BF, INTERCAL or Whitespace) < 1553255461 496784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, sizeof(char) == sizeof(int) == sizeof(void*), and CHAR_BIT varies but is usually 24 :-D < 1553255711 268661 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: did you see the reference that I added to https://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:Interfrac ? (I was almost giddy when I finally found it. It's actually a different source than I originally had for ILP in NP.) < 1553255736 792055 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And I still don't know where that was.) < 1553255738 494064 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but I've seen it now < 1553256432 657300 :mich181189_!sid268336@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ncutvljorlezltpb JOIN :#esoteric < 1553256545 390607 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rzzvsfynnisuzebp JOIN :#esoteric < 1553256874 343615 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:89e7:e726:3d21:6a1c QUIT :*.net *.split < 1553256874 578982 :mich181189!sid268336@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dchpbxiiauajhgba QUIT :*.net *.split < 1553256877 70172 :mich181189_!sid268336@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ncutvljorlezltpb NICK :mich181189 < 1553257054 384067 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1553257061 814097 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1553257248 550407 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:80e4:4cde:2f4c:fbfc JOIN :#esoteric < 1553257651 4436 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1553257685 463941 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: was that old_mmap syscall even used on x86_32? < 1553257726 619663 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try to look this up later < 1553257779 463679 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wati < 1553257785 969215 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a note about mmap in http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man2/syscalls.2.html < 1553257853 157826 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: sorry, you're right. that note tells that because the original mmap is a very old syscall, it used to be called with a parameter block on x86_32, despite that six arguments can be passed in syscalls in x86_32 now < 1553257946 604360 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ok, so you can call the mmap2 system call, or the ipc system call in the shmget mode, to get a memory mapping. < 1553257959 374473 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1553258000 535556 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1553258103 448298 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1553258744 822117 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1553260277 327679 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, you're right, apparently there is a historical artifact there in the original mmap syscall. < 1553263425 692218 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ftr, you're an evil person ;-) (I relented and bought Baba is You and I've already sunk 11 hours into it) < 1553263521 763758 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: how many levels does that have? I hope they improved level design since that demo < 1553263584 447761 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than a hundred < 1553263620 73548 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and at least one level is impossible (probably not really but I have no clue how it's supposed to work) < 1553264940 965988 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I see < 1553265229 147959 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose you're writing an esolang which does I/O as individual bits; should bits within a byte be big- or little-endian? < 1553265244 151044 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike bytes within a word, for which there are several good reasons to be little-endian, I can't see a reason to break the symmetry here < 1553265290 541167 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'd prefer big endian for human readability: 00100000 for a space < 1553265353 112711 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess big endian is slightly easier for input, little endian slightly easier for output? At least when doing the standard multiplication/division based base conversions. < 1553265361 329062 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering whether one particular endianness might be easier to produce from within esolang code < 1553265380 837977 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, yes, you save a temporary in both cases, don't you? < 1553265408 932564 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although not really, because you need a loop counter anyway, and you can use the same temporary for the loop counter and for remembering which bit you've reached < 1553265411 390716 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, that's the sort of thing I have to decide for specifying (and implementing) a standard library for consumer society, although it's not necessarily base 2, I can use larger bases (3 or 4 or 5 or 8 or 16), and not only for IO, but for arithmetic too < 1553265493 350913 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far I think I'll be using the endianness where the code emits the higher order bits first < 1553265494 90976 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you can shift the bits into the number backwards, if you have 256/128 as a constant or wrapping storage < 1553265498 71233 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in BF it's often easier to read the top bit of a number than the bottom bit… < 1553265501 813346 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm, now I'm not sure; the top bit (for some fixed bitwidth) is easier to read in a non-wrappinig impl, but you can read the bottom bit in a wrapping impl by multiplying by 128 and checking to see whether you have 0 < 1553265512 617878 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: sorry for my connection < 1553265524 931683 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1553266000 527804 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can read the lowest bit in brainfuck too. < 1553266090 608300 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, BF is transformation-on-memory-complete, the question is as to how easy the various bit-reading codes are < 1553266125 364852 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this problem comes up in The Waterfall Model too, I haven't decided whether it's easier to read high bits or low bits first < 1553266143 174882 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this should read the low bit: >[-]+>[-]>[-]<<< [- >[->>+<<]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]<<<] < 1553266147 108625 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you either repeatedly halve, or else compare against something that's repeatedly halving) < 1553266166 119136 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clears the three fields to the right, then puts the parity to the field two to the right while zeroing the current cell < 1553266181 621087 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could also copy the value if you don't want to destroy it < 1553266193 844809 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in a typical language I'd do the equivalent of acc = 0; for (i = 0; i < 8; i++) { acc = 2*acc + get_bit(); } < 1553266209 856532 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, 128 in a wrapping impl can be obtained via --[>-<--]>- < 1553266232 122468 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can change the >-< to a nondestructive add to get a nondestructive multiply-by-128 < 1553266232 843231 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how do you read the seventh bit? < 1553266243 951256 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's got to be shorter, but you'd then have to double the number to read the next bit < 1553266253 524984 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than acc = 0; bit = 1; for (i = 0; i < 8; i++) { if (get_bit()) { acc += bit }; bit *= 2; } < 1553266277 379710 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is assuming something without builtin bit shift (or exponentiation)) < 1553266315 257505 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :acc = 0; for (i = 1; i != 256; i*=2) { if (get_bit()) acc += i; } < 1553266322 957931 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I misplaced that semicolon in "};". < 1553266335 848311 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's less natural than your first example, but it's way shorter than the second < 1553266352 388240 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I can compare wit 256 easily... sure. < 1553266364 479798 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in wrapping BF it's very easy, comparing with 256 is what ] does :-) < 1553266389 420219 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( let's take a 16 bit variant ) < 1553266395 611100 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1553266412 233683 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the same code reads a 16-bit character and you don't have to change it at all :-) < 1553266428 913808 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also input may be less important than output? Or not? It really depends on what you want to do... < 1553266458 676459 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and the difference between big endian and little will always be relatively insignificant, I think. < 1553266520 936166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what got me thinking about this was "suppose you're making an IR to target esolangs, what does I/O look like?" < 1553266540 55215 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unary is an option and has several advantages, but also a clear disadvantage < 1553266711 311429 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.202.72 PART #esoteric :"gone too far" < 1553266723 942447 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.202.72 JOIN :#esoteric < 1553266870 798835 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the optimum is probably unary for text output (likely with 1 = NUL, 2 = SOH, etc., and 0 = EOF); and binary for binary output < 1553266884 706467 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in either case the language itself would just output 0s and 1s, just the interpretation of them would be different) < 1553267021 796470 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm definitely not going to use unary. I'm going to use radixes between 2 and 16 inclusive. < 1553267071 597601 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: well, we're designing different languages, so your usecase may well be different from mine < 1553267087 372509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess this goes back to the whole "what is a number?" question < 1553267110 812203 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1553267120 929746 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in esolangs, at least, the answers seems fairly clear for nonnegative integers: it's a count of something, typically data or loop iterations < 1553267158 563146 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :part of the reason why I want a radix higher than 2 for some options is to make the code more compact, so that if I want to put an integer literal in the source code, I don't have to enter 32 bits, but instead just 8 hexits < 1553267158 675992 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so "do this 4 times" is a property inherent in the number 4, it's what defines it, really (because it lets you impose 4ness onto arbitrary structures) < 1553267167 266395 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "output a 1 bit 4 times" is how you output the numebr 4 in unary < 1553267186 777929 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: isn't that just syntax, though? you could have the lexer expand your high-radix number into unary < 1553267189 555990 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+)*12345 < 1553267258 777203 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the syntax itself doesn't know about numbers. only the standard library knows about them, and the standard library interface is such that I can implement the arithmetic library in pure Consumer Society. in fact that's how I want to implement it first, just to prove that it works, and then I add an optimized implementation into the interpret < 1553267258 894116 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :er. < 1553267287 350177 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the library can't add arbitrary syntax to the language < 1553267294 129298 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, and you don't want a preprocessor < 1553267331 523246 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, or at least, I have a specific syntax in mind, and want to make that work < 1553267376 583551 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reference implementation would then store the numbers as binary internally < 1553267384 22996 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that isn't visible in the interface < 1553267405 700274 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, IMO a good Underload interpreter should store numbers in binary < 1553267412 397235 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :internally < 1553267415 759923 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the syntax doesn't work like that at all < 1553267443 838113 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? if you want to handle large numbers in underload, you can implement a binary representation in underload just fine < 1553267472 563184 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case I want to handle 32-bit numbers because I decided I want to implement the SGB random generator, and that uses 32-bit division < 1553267503 540906 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I'll implement a maze generator that calls that random number generator < 1553267523 113373 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: because the binary representation is very inconvenient for working with < 1553267530 943041 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wouldn't be able to multiply with just *, for example < 1553267534 146537 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so some numbers will be greater than 2**30, but I won't repeat anything as many times < 1553267564 322170 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :make the interpreter use bignums internally < 1553267571 471329 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, I'll have to implement the multiplication and division myself. I've implemented binary arithmetic a fwe times already, so I know what I'm getting myself into < 1553267581 276134 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all esolang interpreters should do that unless the esolang inherently has a word size cap (which IMO is bad esolang design) < 1553267591 905471 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for underload, yes, I'd use bignums. for Consumer society, that's not so easy < 1553267636 69581 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from my point of view, the best way to write esolangs is normally for the program to handle numbers in unary (simplest), and the interpreter to optimize that, unless the esolang is timing-dependent in some way and thus can't be optimized < 1553267682 531373 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not that 32 bits is an inherent limit. I could implement 128 bits instead if I wanted to, for just slightly larger code, but if I do 32 bits, that makes it clear enough that I could do larger if I wanted while keeping the code clean. < 1553267902 809755 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be hard to imagine an esolang where 32 bits /is/ an inherent limit (so, of course, I'm trying) < 1553268370 971735 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't think it would be hard. x86_32 already has built-in 32-bit integers, and you can encourage that even more if you don't expose a carry flag and don't expose high multiplication. < 1553268424 953495 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, and don't expose double shift and don't expose unsigned division either. it goes a long way to make longer arithmetic inconvenient, but still totally realistic and characteristic of real cpus. < 1553268444 988236 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, that means it's for non-esoteric languages, but I don't see why an esoteric language couldn't do the same < 1553268464 881966 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :intercal already has 16 bits as an inherent limit, and I can imagine a 32-bit variant. < 1553270187 906292 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 16 is arbitrary though > 1553270883 726233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Livefish14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60558 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+1681) 10Created page with "[[Livefish]] is an [[esoteric programming language]] made by [[User: Areallycoolusername|Areallycoolusername]]. It's the opposite of [[Deadfish]] in that it has a way to input..." > 1553271055 887588 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60559&oldid=60547 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+71) 10/* General languages */ < 1553271432 336753 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1553271510 153318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Livefish would be /way/ more interesting if i was input, and o was some other operation < 1553271519 839362 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, it would still likely be uninteresting > 1553271551 983810 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Livefish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60560&oldid=60558 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+131) 10 < 1553271558 842130 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can write practically useful TC input-only languages, though (e.g. context-free grammars); they provide observable output in the form of halt/nonhalt > 1553271572 618821 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Livefish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60561&oldid=60560 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (-31) 10 > 1553271641 298665 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Livefish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60562&oldid=60561 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+6) 10 > 1553271728 651631 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Livefish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60563&oldid=60562 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+10) 10 > 1553271762 282556 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Livefish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60564&oldid=60563 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (-17) 10/* Categories */ < 1553273514 249913 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Which level is impossible? < 1553273580 417349 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Level 12 in the forest... skull house. I don't want any spoilers though. < 1553273645 9647 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course. > 1553274355 925088 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Areallycoolusername14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60565&oldid=59883 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+249) 10 > 1553274427 576853 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Areallycoolusername14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60566&oldid=60565 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+34) 10 > 1553274439 251723 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Areallycoolusername14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60567&oldid=60566 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+2) 10 < 1553276925 115803 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rzzvsfynnisuzebp QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1553277081 955128 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc115608-york6-2-0-cust168.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553277349 956387 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553278561 295659 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. I somehow thought when you call int 0x80 in a 64-bit binary, you go through the compatibility layer where the syscall numbers are the x86-32 ones, and you pass in 32-bit ebx/ecx/edx/etc registers. In actual fact, it looks like when I call int 0x80 it's interpreted using the 64-bit syscall numbers and register order. Or at least that's how strace is printing them. < 1553278581 902289 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe strace is just confused by the whole concept. Because the call doesn't actually do anything, and it prints "?" as the return value too. < 1553278778 262592 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, I think that's just strace. Because when I try to run the regular "syscall"-based version with int 0x80, strace prints write(1, "Hello world!\n", 13) = ? but the process just exits. (The 64-bit syscall write number 1 is exit on the i386 side.) < 1553278817 231503 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1553278831 786818 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I just won't use strace; just wanted to use it to validate the args. Still getting a -1 (EPERM) out of the purported mmap call. < 1553278976 226396 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, looks like it might actually care about fd needing to be -1 when MAP_ANONYMOUS is set. The man page was ambivalent (stating it should be ignored), so I left it at 0 as that was easier. < 1553279076 289195 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or not. I'm getting EBADF when I try to set it to -1. < 1553279169 996635 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1553280537 720118 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc115608-york6-2-0-cust168.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1553280657 948665 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you can write practically useful TC input-only languages, though (e.g. context-free grammars)" => huh what? no context free grammar is Turing-complete < 1553280665 817395 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ^ < 1553280697 12877 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant context-sensitive grammars < 1553280708 635388 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and said the wrong thing out of habit because CFGs are common and CSGs are rare < 1553280740 203354 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: try to call write first, that has the same syscall number in all versions, right? < 1553280766 854004 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: No, that's what confusing me right before you joined. < 1553280790 833989 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: The 32-bit write (1) is actually the 64-bit exit, so strace printed "write(...) = ?" + "program exited". < 1553280813 766711 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what I don't know is, when you call a syscall with int 80, what registers or register halves is the syscall allowed to clobber < 1553280824 205768 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the proper x86_64 syscall interface, I do know the answer < 1553280839 22651 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not for the int 80 < 1553280840 675882 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, I mean, the 64-bit write (1) is the 32-bit exit, is what I needed to say. < 1553280849 345461 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what? < 1553280852 568608 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :even that's changed? < 1553280853 406129 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1553280858 483351 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Single-stepping with gdb confirms that it exits immediately on the "int 0x80" where eax/rax is 1, so it's being treated in the 32-bit manner, even though strace prints it it as write. < 1553280925 344474 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: even without strace or gdb, you could get a few bits result out if you make the program (1) call an illegal instruction, (2) cause a segmentation fault by writing to the null page, (3) livelock with an infinite loop < 1553280928 524167 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the syscall_64.tbl list starts at 0 with "read, write, open, close, ..." while the syscall_32.tbl starts from 1 (well, 0 is restart_syscall, that's special) with "exit, fork, ...". < 1553280964 490348 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1553280986 303673 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553280994 869671 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 32-bit one starts with exit, fork, read, write, open, close, waitpid, creat, link, unlink, execve, chdir, time, mknod, chmod, lchown, break < 1553281011 234880 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1553281011 964110 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1553281031 254404 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553281058 227876 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1553281059 887515 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could get ugly the other way, if you try to call write, but actually call fork < 1553281085 328333 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553281096 195513 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any case, I'm a bit unsure about this EBADF. I think it's likely using the x86-32 argument registers, because when I change the fifth register (edi) from 0 to -1, the return value goes from -1 (EPERM) to -9 (EBADF). < 1553281097 956288 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what does the sysenter interface do? is that the same as the int80 interface? < 1553281105 277142 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1553281108 326842 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :...uh, actually, scratch all that. It's just that I can't count. < 1553281127 701517 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turns out 0x20 | 0x40 *isn't* actually 0x40, but 0x60 instead. < 1553281128 996224 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553281137 57855 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knew. < 1553281151 861021 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1553281162 31803 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, then it all makes sense, it doesn't have 0x20 (MAP_ANONYMOUS) set so it's either trying to mmap stdin (EPERM) or -1 (EBADF). < 1553281184 112516 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553281193 49844 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it ought to use the x86_32 register conventions if you use int80 < 1553281198 539908 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1553281227 198608 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the syscall number goes in eax, and the arguments to ebx, ecx, edx, esi, edi, ebp < 1553281244 869639 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :EPERM seems like an interesting error for mmapping stdin < 1553281273 735236 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be EACCES according to the docs < 1553281291 77189 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, but EACCES is "Permission denied" < 1553281297 653995 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(EPERM is "Operation not permitted") < 1553281324 170899 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :EPERM The prot argument asks for PROT_EXEC but the mapped area belongs to a file on a filesystem that was mounted no-exec. < 1553281330 192239 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It kind of might be an instance of that sort of thing. < 1553281341 660705 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to map it rwx just because there's no reason not to. < 1553281352 382465 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1553281361 150499 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I normally avoid +x in maps < 1553281372 682819 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, what fizzie says, plus /dev/pts is mounted noexec < 1553281373 34121 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, mapping /anything/ rwx is a huge w^x violation < 1553281378 587765 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I might want to run some code in there, though right now it doesn't. < 1553281396 570567 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, with the flags fixed (MAP_PRIVATE | MAP_ANONYMOUS | MAP_32BIT), it's now returning a pointer in the low 32 bits, so that should be fine: http://ix.io/1Ee2 < 1553281404 243950 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: like I said yesterday, rwx used to be normal, because for a pretty long time, x86 didn't have a way to mark pages (as opposed to segments) readable but not executable < 1553281443 494743 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: clearly you should just make your mutable variables write-only, then < 1553281469 175044 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is… possibly viable given the right sort of language?) < 1553281480 980534 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: old x86 didn't allow marking a page executable but not readable either < 1553281501 547891 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm wondering what operations x86 allows on write-only memory, can you do RMW instructions if they don't have visible side effects? I'm guessing no < 1553281548 861174 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1553281570 584496 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole non-executable page thing came about only because of security people trying to reduce effects of bugs < 1553281609 751413 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf was these loud noise < 1553281766 725333 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1553281950 619192 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw. Works locally, crashes on HackEso. That might be a little annoying to debug. < 1553281966 316318 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ouch < 1553281974 159689 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: how do you even compile it on HackEso? < 1553281983 164669 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1553281990 662160 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo 'const char main[] = "%0000%HELOP[P]P_4~PY4yPZ4eP^,b,@̀PYSX5Hell1ADSX5o wo1AHSX5rld!1ALSX4@4J1AP4@4GPZ$AP[QX4DPYRX$D̀ß";' | gcc -x c - -o /tmp/hello4 && /tmp/hello4 < 1553281991 720388 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're compiling a x86_64 program, sorry < 1553281991 889186 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/`: line 5: 64 Segmentation fault /tmp/hello4 < 1553281994 762216 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you can compile < 1553282021 709920 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :try cheating by making the program not of that format < 1553282039 59930 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That command line prints "Hello world!" on both my home machine and this work computer. < 1553282065 779224 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, will have to look into it a bit later, need to go grocery shopping. < 1553282076 429505 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I know the format in general works. < 1553282102 766719 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo 'const char main[] = "%0000%HELOPPPPPPT]5Hell1E XP5o wo1E$XP5rld!1E(XP4@4J1E,4@4GPZ$AP_^^^^T^\17\5XX\303";' | gcc -x c - -o /tmp/hello4 && /tmp/hello4 < 1553282104 77687 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello world! < 1553282203 402971 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The int 0x80 version also works on the machine HackEso is running on, so it's something about the UML sandbox. Which isn't *that* surprising: UML in general does weird things about memory. < 1553282215 614176 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, it's a separate Linux kernel. < 1553282225 151154 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's compiled without the 32-bit emulation in the first place. < 1553282281 591027 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1553282300 839964 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sure does < 1553282572 708180 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have that working version that doesn't use any syscalls at all, I just suspect if I finish converting it to be printable in a naive way, it's going to end up being longer than comfortably fits on an IRC line. < 1553282652 649274 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` set -e; >tmp/a.c echo $'#include\n''int main(void) { printf("hello ifrzMgePz7Lg,\n"); }'; gcc -g -Wall -O -fdiagnostics-color=never -o tmp/a.out tmp/a.c; tmp/a.out < 1553282654 27016 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello ifrzMgePz7Lg, < 1553282686 147967 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have to fit in an irc line? you can just use multiple irc lines < 1553282699 672459 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it doesn't, really, just would be more elegant if it did. < 1553282710 21246 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the word "elegant" can really be attached to that. < 1553282722 766653 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it's really the -fdiagnostics-color=never why I don't want to insist on putting all the compilation stuff in one irc line < 1553282751 544718 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a ridiculously long compilation option, and the gcc defaults and libc defaults are somewhat bad for historical reasons, < 1553282780 337332 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can end up needing stuff like -std=gnu++-17 and #define _GNU_SOURCE and twenty includes just to do nothing < 1553282795 487232 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't want to omit those just to golf the program < 1553282836 228130 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The non-syscall code walks up the stack to reach the ELF auxiliary vector, picks up the AT_PHDR pointer to locate the program header, scans that to find the PT_DYNAMIC section, looks up the DT_DEBUG entry used for communicating between the dynamic linker and a debugger, uses the link_map chain there to enumerate all loaded shared objects, scans through their symbol tables to find "exit" and "puts", and < 1553282842 257805 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally uses those to do the job. < 1553282857 192515 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ok, wait a moment < 1553282871 569454 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I read something relevant yesterday, let me look it up < 1553282882 491509 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm wait < 1553282886 190596 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was for x86_32 code < 1553282901 948925 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that can't work < 1553282946 446954 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still, even in x86_64, there must be a function with a syscall instruction mapped somewhere, that the kernel and libc together use for signal handler magic < 1553282952 73021 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1553282981 135285 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I could definitely do it much easier if I were willing to make it work on one specific libc. < 1553282995 628517 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or scan through memory to find suitable bytes.) < 1553283012 315270 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, maybe that wouldn't be so much easier than the enumerate-symbols approach.) < 1553283056 18549 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also an easy-to-find entry to locate the vDSO page, which could be used to make a version that reliably works on one specific kernel. < 1553283114 263697 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :On x86-32 systems, the vDSO actually has a function just for this, __kernel_vsyscall, which is there so that userspace apps can just call that instead of having to do the work of deciding whether sysenter is supported. < 1553283154 874009 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :On x86-64, that's not there, the page contains just __vdso_clock_gettime, __vdso_getcpu, __vdso_gettimeofday and __vsdo_time. < 1553283184 206187 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of those do have syscall instructions that could be jumped to, but again that would make the solution brittle if the vDSO contents change. < 1553283186 610814 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1553283541 392160 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but doesn't it have to work that way on any libc? I mean < 1553283554 255053 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what does the kernel put on the stack when it calls a signal handler? < 1553283569 651648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I vaguely remember Web of Lies scanning the vDSO to find a syscall instruction < 1553283572 475119 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't it put a return address to a routine that calls the magic system call that tells the kernel that the signal handler has finished? < 1553283577 51292 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't there something like that? < 1553283579 142443 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then jumping to it via IP teleportation over ptrace < 1553283590 411806 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'm confused < 1553283592 102838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it seemed saner than trying to alter the executable's memory image to do a system call) < 1553283593 395411 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to test that < 1553283801 145270 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's a specific system call (sigreturn?) somewhere in user-space code that signal handlers return to, which then informs the kernel that the signal handling is done. But I'm not sure how that helps for this. < 1553283820 127938 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless there's an easier way to find that code than there is to find the puts/exit functions. < 1553283861 309527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :syscall/signal interaction is interesting < 1553283877 391941 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the kernel frequently, either virtually or actually, rewinds the IP a couple of bytes to send it over the same syscall again < 1553283884 629571 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how restartable syscalls are restarted, for example < 1553283900 350102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't surprise me if sigreturn is used as a replacement syscall for nonrestartable signals in much the same way < 1553283926 766928 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fwiw, this mechanism makes it highly likely that syscalls use only caller-saves registers, as it'd be hard to get the parameters correct otherwise) < 1553284011 747011 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is that really what the kernel does? I always thought it was the libc that handled all the restarting, by intercepting all the sigaction calls to know which signals it has to restart after, and restarting on a -EITNR in the C functions that call the system call < 1553284027 299717 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: no, it happens in the kernel, you can see this using strace < 1553284047 940036 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a few really out-there signal numbers (not in the normal sequence) reserved for this purpose < 1553284051 67940 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think the sigreturn had some other reason to exist, not the syscall restarting < 1553284054 319958 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember whether they're negative or really large < 1553284096 949583 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I didn't pay much attention to the whole system call restarting thing, because why would you want that? the whole point of signal handlers is that they must be able to wake up your program, and you can only do that if the system call isn't restarted < 1553284116 50377 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in blocking high level functions like fread, sure, there you restart < 1553284142 808013 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: well, if you've set the signal to SIG_IGN, you presumably don't want the signal to interrupt the system call < 1553284150 728441 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes that's implemented as restarting it < 1553284153 97067 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but otherwise, when a signal interrupts a syscall, it will be the blocking syscall that is the center of your event loop, like poll or something < 1553284173 87389 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do understand that the restarting must be handled for compatibility with existing programs of course < 1553284217 127468 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no! if you set it to SIG_IGN, then the system call isn't interrupted at all, from the user process's point of view. the kernel doesn't have to restart anything, or even interrupt the system call, because it doesn't have to invoke a handler < 1553284239 128277 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vaguely remember that the kernel actually /does/ interrupt the system call while it checks to see if there's a handler < 1553284295 670266 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and SIG_IGN has some special semantics for the kernel anyway, it's not just like calling an empty handler: SIG_IGN is inherited through an execve, SIG_IGN on SIGCLD makes the kernel wait all your children when they die. < 1553284353 616268 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, what actually matters is the SA_RESTART flag on the signal handler, which can be set independently per-handler (although it defaults to off unless you're using SIG_IGN, IIRC) < 1553284356 333228 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is why you have to be very careful with SIG_IGN: if a child accidentally inherits it, you can get really hard to debug bugs < 1553284383 237433 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a particularly nasty bug in linux distros where some process set sigprocmask and children inherited it, the same could happen with signaction SIG_IGN < 1553284442 772047 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there are some programs that do this sort of thing intentionally < 1553284444 575497 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nohup comes to mind < 1553284458 764512 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, I guess what you're saying makes sense, because libc can't easily tell which signal interrupted the syscall < 1553284670 812903 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I know why! < 1553284735 521587 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the kernel must put something on the stack because on signal return the stack pointer must be modified. on x86_32 that's only if a sigaltstack is active, but on x86_64 always, because there's a redzone < 1553284767 759528 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, you can't clobber the redzone < 1553284767 799116 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't just have the signal handler return like a normal C function, the stack pointer would be wrong < 1553284798 565327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what even is the purpose of that thing, anyway? < 1553284858 776775 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it just to save a few assignments to SP? or is there some better optimization you can do with it? < 1553284883 556875 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: uh, some optimization thing, but I'm not sure what right now < 1553284992 283580 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553285001 15486 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think part of that is that the one-byte displacement you use in x86 addressing modes is a signed int8 < 1553285028 314592 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think there's something other than that, possibly connected to instructions like push/pop < 1553285072 143309 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the redzone is 128 bytes, isn't it? that would make a lot of sense if it's the signed-int8 displcement that's relevant < 1553285224 464513 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: something close to that, yes < 1553285480 56605 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it also allows you to load a value from the stack with pop but still keep the copy on the stack < 1553285530 98252 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the copy isn't on the stack any more, it's in the redzone, but I know what you mean < 1553285533 34445 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying this comes up often, but the redzone doesn't have much of a price either < 1553285586 248679 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the kernel calls a signal handler, those 128 bytes don't cost much even when you aren't using them < 1553285588 208597 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: there's also the bit that tail functions don't have to set up their own stack frame if they need fewer than 120 or so bytes. < 1553285684 955636 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: that could be true even if the redzone was over *rsp, not under, if the calling convention just said that the 120 bytes over the return addess are callee-clobbered < 1553285758 508074 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: basically you have a choice of a constant offset of where the rsp points, and it only matters for when the stack is accessed with small displacements or call/ret/push/pop or similar which use a fixed displacement < 1553285767 915406 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: then you'd pay 120 bytes of stack space for every level of function calls even if no stack frame is allocated at all < 1553285777 993366 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just for the return address) < 1553285795 596864 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1553285799 516140 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, because it would intersect the previous ret address? < 1553285805 898950 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, sorry, you're right < 1553285809 524062 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wouldn't work < 1553285828 169560 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, yes, I think what I said is correct. I'm confusing myself. < 1553285894 764950 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yes, what you say is correct. because the call/ret instructions access right above *rsp, you want space below that that can be used even if you did a dense series of calls and pushed above *rsp < 1553285956 627290 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the stuff you access with call/ret/push/pop and kin are above the stack pointer, and some of the thing you access only with displacements, not with those instructions, can be above < 1553285960 794502 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of them can be below < 1553285977 396042 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps < 1553286079 821099 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there definitely has to be a boundary somewhere on the stack so that above that is generally preserved by the callee, below that can be clobbered < 1553286173 727584 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and because of how call/ret/push/pop works, it makes sense to put that boundary near *rsp < 1553286208 975853 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why there's a scratch area below [rsp] < 1553286351 104981 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I don't really claim I understand this < 1553286362 571918 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :figuring out good general-purpose calling conventions is a very hard problem < 1553286368 159348 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing we already have one to use < 1553286513 826225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably only good on x86 < 1553286519 426389 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure < 1553286523 117761 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and any goodness it has is relative to the general insanity of x86 < 1553286529 121269 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is cpu-dependent < 1553286537 539023 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is on x86_64 in particular < 1553287515 974616 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, the linux manpage http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man2/sigreturn.2.html gives some info < 1553287580 239912 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes! < 1553287608 441158 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides setting the stack pointer, it resets the saved sigprocmask. I knew there was something I missed < 1553288082 560495 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1553288129 961054 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that won't help, because you need at least either a system call or a symbol lookup to find that function that the signal handler stack frame calls, < 1553288154 206497 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if can you do a system call or symbol lookup then you no longer need that < 1553288192 403233 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1553288192 923365 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1553288227 200617 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit non-portable because it technically depends on the kernel version, but you can find the address from just the auxiliary vector I think < 1553288327 562954 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1553288330 741793 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be even better < 1553288333 323916 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to test this < 1553288353 151897 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm no < 1553288355 591868 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1553288369 497595 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno < 1553288549 758457 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1553288561 456748 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a symbol lookup into libc I think < 1553288566 863938 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it won't help > 1553289382 635925 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Hakerh40014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60568&oldid=60554 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (-188) 10/* Programming languages we created */ > 1553289394 917444 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60569&oldid=60486 5* 03Illuminatu 5* (+177) 10/* Implementations */ > 1553289523 542924 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Aeolbonn14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60570&oldid=20079 5* 03Illuminatu 5* (+97) 10/* Examples */ < 1553290111 983520 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@80.79.116.138 JOIN :#esoteric < 1553290304 287439 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1553290325 972017 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.202.72 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1553290403 522440 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :smh. arduino is doing some terrible thing where code inside comments gets preprocessor-expanded and then has compiler-level syntax errors < 1553290412 708737 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should once again ditch it and write basic AVR C < 1553290420 298315 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's so convenient to throw things together < 1553290423 364061 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it isn't fucking you over < 1553290709 435004 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@80.79.116.138 NICK :arseniiv < 1553290724 330943 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: ouch < 1553290824 240557 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.202.72 JOIN :#esoteric < 1553290872 936265 :arseniiv__!~arseniiv@185.112.82.235 JOIN :#esoteric < 1553291051 942664 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@80.79.116.138 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1553291080 216049 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.202.72 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1553291429 985170 :arseniiv__!~arseniiv@185.112.82.235 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1553292059 960805 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553292065 101404 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1553292065 101443 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1553292374 815771 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently used items are now described with the euphemism "pre-owned" rather than plain "used" or "second-hand" < 1553292417 753317 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm shopping on ebay.com) < 1553292522 614276 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's been the case for a looong time < 1553292524 816447 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least for cars < 1553292550 877019 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I haven't been shopping online for long yet < 1553292559 362065 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :only for like two years so far < 1553292567 378111 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1553292570 564887 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm somewhat conventional and find it hard to get used to < 1553292574 296039 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bought my car online < 1553292576 538641 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I'm definitely not buying cars < 1553292580 642515 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is weird because no test drive < 1553292585 745955 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they had a 14 day return policy < 1553292592 400000 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as it turns out I love that car < 1553292599 822132 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: um, just because it's online you could have a test drive < 1553292611 545068 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was used < 1553292614 552399 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :even then < 1553292618 323745 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you figure < 1553292655 544106 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you search in the catalog of cars for sale, you contact the owner that you're interested, < 1553292673 774767 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you agree with them at a time and place, and possibly pay an advance, and try the car before agreeing to take it, < 1553292693 502857 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because especially for a used car there are a lot of things you may want to check directly on the car, that you can't see on photos or descriptions < 1553292696 510558 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in hidden errors < 1553292710 322081 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this need not include a test drive, but it can < 1553292732 931471 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on stuff like whether the car still has permission to run and insurance < 1553292756 363627 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and whether it needs things fixed in a garage immediately after buying < 1553292861 671374 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm buying cheap new items online, but see used ones in the listing when I search < 1553292888 961521 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously I have to check that field that says "brand new" < 1553292896 544140 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "new (with tags)" < 1553292951 56106 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not how buying cars online works < 1553292955 395859 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could have been thousands of miles away < 1553292960 507198 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, the seller does an inspection < 1553292971 78895 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you handle your own insurance and registration < 1553292981 691871 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah I was a little scared of getting ripped < 1553292982 891016 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :off < 1553292984 743200 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was fine < 1553292990 124271 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"thousands of miles" probably no, but a few hundred kilometers certainly < 1553292994 902109 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1553293003 439156 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, I live in Europe, it's smaller < 1553293006 894871 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're once again pulling stuff out of your ass regarding things you've never done < 1553293023 891944 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't buying on craigslist < 1553293038 166504 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I went through a middleman that provides various services < 1553293043 711297 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they also handled the registration for me < 1553293044 613568 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1553293049 157147 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was convenient, although it took a long time < 1553293059 190087 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a used cars sales company < 1553293060 437075 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1553293118 678364 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, I wasn't thinking of that, because my family and some co-workers bought and sold some cars and motorbikes recently, and they all bought or sold them directly to the previous or next owner, not through a used car professional < 1553293167 394790 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, agents handling sales of cars do exist here too < 1553293345 432241 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh it's ok < 1553293349 218189 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got pissed off unnecessarily < 1553293352 934582 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it happens a lot :/ < 1553293359 373119 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1553293391 331478 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1553293393 321847 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying that either method is better < 1553293402 617280 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't trust individual people, but you also can't trust agents < 1553293429 468839 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/people/owners/ < 1553293467 844275 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in python, you can call list or tuple with an existing list as an argument to make a shallow copy, right? < 1553293480 605073 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me test to make sure it's really shallow < 1553293517 932930 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, shallow < 1553293518 599647 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1553293612 44512 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can call it with any iterable < 1553293614 320986 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah, it's shallow < 1553293831 970486 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` python3 <<<'a=[[4],[5]];b=list(a);a[0][0]=6;a[1]=[7];print(a,b)' # yes < 1553293832 913806 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[[6], [7]] [[6], [5]] < 1553293844 492761 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bzzzzonk < 1553293875 631218 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1553293876 404265 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :843) i think the problem is you're trying to interpret finnish as logic. < 1553293879 319519 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1553293880 100302 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1075) i guess the fact i won't eat bovine tongue is just tranferred cod trauma. < 1553293883 430518 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1553293884 262724 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :465) Maybe if you try diplomacy. Pointy steel diplomacy < 1553294464 724433 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1553294896 889304 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1553295710 728983 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1553295797 901797 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1553297167 264991 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone read the story I wrote of GURPS game I played, and their idea is that Ziv should just bite off the shapeshifter's face. < 1553297288 447330 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I would think that would be difficult for a few reasons. < 1553297907 801513 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553298172 817498 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1553299095 974083 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1553299330 697002 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1553300316 962763 :moriarty!~mtsqvco5@unaffiliated/moriarty JOIN :#esoteric < 1553300325 451718 :moriarty!~mtsqvco5@unaffiliated/moriarty PART :#esoteric < 1553300852 574333 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: okay that level wasn't impossible after all < 1553301167 584832 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: But you needed to figure out a new mechanic for it, I imagine < 1553301233 328835 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1553301259 999725 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1553301297 655267 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1553301534 36717 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly I needed a fresh start, a more open mind :P Breaks often do wonders in such a situation. < 1553301774 576490 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I first saw that level I didn't know you could do that thing. < 1553302528 942293 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553302790 936596 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1553303201 375874 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I watched someone else play for a bit, but it was a little frustrating to be a spectator for this particular game. < 1553303341 187154 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( spectator is you ) < 1553303813 846936 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: imo play it yourself hth < 1553303938 79180 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1553303986 772123 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :twh but for some reason I never quite feel like buying games. < 1553303994 571696 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this a Finnish product? The company name sure sounds so. < 1553304016 205049 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently so. < 1553304075 6640 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: if you like weird Linuxes like UML, you might like WSL too. < 1553304084 366285 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there are any interesting differences from name brand Linux < 1553304092 957021 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should have called it I Can't Believe It's Not Linux < 1553304307 796615 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 I meant context-sensitive grammars <-- as a class in the chomsky hierarchy, they're not TC either < 1553304307 877030 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1553304348 588925 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Butterux < 1553304366 543781 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are also the games that you do not have to buy, in case you prefer that < 1553305488 943727 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553305751 939139 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1553311846 994283 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553311911 403009 :cq1!~snp@c-24-5-19-171.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553311916 965807 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome cq1 < 1553311918 449075 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​06cq1: 13Welcome 04to 07the 08international 09hub 02for 06esoteric 13programming 04language 07design 08and 09deployment! 02For 06more 13information, 04check 07out 08our 09wiki: 02. 06(For 13the 04other 07kind 08of 09esoterica, 02try 06#esoteric 13on 04EFnet 07or 08DALnet.) < 1553311973 996661 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553312033 396567 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1553312245 971003 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1553313085 595064 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1553314007 70788 :cq1!~snp@c-24-5-19-171.hsd1.ca.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`okay nevermind whatever < 1553314007 719998 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: okay: not found < 1553314171 724816 :cq1!~snp@c-24-5-19-171.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1553314466 384351 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1553314467 140529 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :129) Vonlebio: well, i'm only back in denmark because my work visa expired. please insert token to continue. > 1553318798 343106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Define14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60571 5* 03A 5* (+622) 10Created page with "[[Define]] is a subset of the C preprocessor with a small extension: the scans are infinite. ==Syntax== * #define ''macro'' ''replacement'' * ... and __VA_ARGS__ (These repres..." > 1553318816 507360 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Define14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60572&oldid=60571 5* 03A 5* (-1) 10 > 1553319091 692129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Livefish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60573&oldid=60564 5* 03A 5* (+329) 10Part of implementation > 1553319176 410478 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Livefish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60574&oldid=60573 5* 03A 5* (+128) 10/* C */ > 1553319298 828495 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Livefish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60575&oldid=60574 5* 03A 5* (+153) 10/* C */ > 1553319322 949145 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Livefish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60576&oldid=60575 5* 03A 5* (+4) 10/* Lua */ > 1553319346 930818 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Livefish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60577&oldid=60576 5* 03A 5* (-59) 10/* Implementations */ > 1553319536 689337 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Livefish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60578&oldid=60577 5* 03A 5* (+171) 10Wierd proof of Turing-incompleteness > 1553319553 119710 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Livefish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60579&oldid=60578 5* 03A 5* (+1) 10/* Computational Properties */ < 1553319616 645825 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What instruction sets other than Glulx have convenient bit arrays like Glulx has? > 1553319758 868066 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Livefish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60580&oldid=60579 5* 03A 5* (+2) 10/* C */ > 1553320005 146448 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Fake-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60581&oldid=56520 5* 03A 5* (-535) 10Blanked the page > 1553320162 921378 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Livefish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60582&oldid=60580 5* 03A 5* (+33) 10/* C */ > 1553320180 481270 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Livefish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60583&oldid=60582 5* 03A 5* (-2) 10/* C */ > 1553320232 904695 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Livefish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60584&oldid=60583 5* 03A 5* (+37) 10/* Lua */ > 1553320751 585724 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60585&oldid=60511 5* 03A 5* (-416) 10Blanked the page < 1553320761 936954 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: how do glulx bit arrays work? < 1553321226 347622 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1553321303 629176 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: There is instructions "aloadbit" and "astorebit", which takes the address of the beginning of the array, and the index of the bit in the array, which 0 is the low bit of the first byte of the array and so on. < 1553321314 567704 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that is convenient < 1553323040 297253 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553323223 960618 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1553324185 455298 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose on amd64 you'd do something like: mov %esi, %eax; shr $6, %rsi; bt %eax, (%rdi, %rsi, 1) < 1553324212 212591 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :where array pointer = %edi, bit index = %esi, result in CF < 1553324249 595173 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be wrong, i'm tired and not thinking clearly < 1553324252 552968 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :'night all :) < 1553324733 943842 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553330159 138335 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1553332487 242054 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1553335126 257103 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-177.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1553336334 387607 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a better way to measure achievement in a game on Steam is the following: go to the "Global Achievements" page and take the most common achievement that you do not have, or the least common achievement that you do. not sure how to convert these stats into a single percentage though. < 1553337037 158743 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1553337058 96492 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN :#esoteric < 1553338852 746652 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I guess we differ slightly in terminology. I'd call it a trick, not a mechanic (which I tend to reserve to the builtin game features; when "has" was introduced, that was a new mechanic...). < 1553338977 27459 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Gur guvat vf, V unq rira qvfpbirerq gur onfvp gevpx bs pbzcyrgvat gjb fragraprf ng bapr orsber... V whfg unq abg gubhtug bs hfvat gur fhowrpg sbe gur svany cvrpr. < 1553344302 416035 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1553344507 283432 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1553344507 525294 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1553349780 7056 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1553350018 871850 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1553350604 368495 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1553350620 994964 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1553350966 433467 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1553351687 8981 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-248-68-130.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1553351727 971108 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-248-68-130.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1553351850 394218 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :world > 1553351949 823880 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Maurice Ling14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60586&oldid=35548 5* 03Mauriceling 5* (+2) 10/* External resources */ < 1553354792 39491 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553355032 973541 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric > 1553355365 28813 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Oerjan 5* 10deleted "[[02Fake-machine10]]": Author request: content before blanking was: "A '''Fake-machine''' is a simple program type, inspired by [[User:Keymaker|Keymaker]]'s Truth-machine to be a program that is easy, most of the time, to implement in a language, and useful for testing or showcasing the fo..." < 1553356108 274738 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-248-68-130.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just created yet another Turing tarpit. https://gist.github.com/beyondlimits/d1278c97c57bcbbba10f50cfc3d8a77b. Shame on me! < 1553356184 920847 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'll have to tar and feather you. < 1553356275 642066 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :TheWild: Doesn't that have finite state though? < 1553356343 762655 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION too tired to read code < 1553356373 189117 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-248-68-130.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... kind of. Unless you map, say, 1..6 to pins of some serial, infinite storage device ;) < 1553356397 413572 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the neighbor's playing an annoying beat may have something to do with that. < 1553356400 215718 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-' < 1553356515 794799 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-248-68-130.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 would be enough < 1553356515 877126 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-248-68-130.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :memory[1]: clock < 1553356515 877185 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-248-68-130.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :memory[2]: 0 for input, 1 for output < 1553356515 877211 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-248-68-130.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :memory[3]: 0 for setting up address, 1 for data I/O < 1553356530 861337 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oomph oomph oomph ta-da oomph oomph oomph drrrt oomph oomph oomph ta-da... < 1553356544 521354 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-248-68-130.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, < 1553356544 671102 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-248-68-130.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric : memory[4]: actual data wire < 1553356635 638160 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( What an awkward ternary if operator. ) < 1553356650 733833 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-248-68-130.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's python < 1553356652 612686 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it worse than the malbolge one? < 1553356692 205301 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(_possibly_ a different meaning of ternary.) < 1553356709 965474 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm comparing to mainstream languages. if else is just a very odd order of arguments. < 1553356745 514478 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: uh I missed the punniness < 1553356776 157947 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s ok, so did i < 1553356877 91767 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION assumes lord snackleford is aware that the original summoning device is supposed to wipe out the original mind of the person sitting in the chair. < 1553356894 299281 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, a great sacrifice for science there < 1553357578 250435 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1553357587 307001 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1553358252 703613 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ragaraja14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60587&oldid=46129 5* 03Mauriceling 5* (+177) 10/* Interpreter Environment */ < 1553359665 294834 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553359897 318366 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1553359994 7373 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-38.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1553360152 70346 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-248-68-130.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1553360242 125279 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-38.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: re "I Can't Believe It's Not Linux", does every write to a regular file update its mtime, as seen by lstat, or does only opening for writing and closing does? < 1553360253 355565 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-38.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the first write or something < 1553360286 222824 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-38.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because this is one of the traditional differences between actual unixes and windows < 1553360535 322444 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm ot sure < 1553360539 188820 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a mount option isn't it < 1553360544 291299 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe that's just noatime and relatime < 1553360742 953467 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1553361265 807326 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is many file format that 7-Zip will not open, such as MIME, Blorb, and Hamster archives. < 1553361282 752869 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blorb? < 1553361349 169837 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many Glulx games are wrapped in a Blorb file rather than standalone. (However, I am not using Blorb for my own game.) < 1553361370 144389 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1553361375 340701 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :file formats that nobody but you has ever heard of < 1553361473 500439 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, MIME is common format, I think < 1553361520 372410 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's true < 1553361700 931750 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-38.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: also, for bit vectors, if you're indexing them little endian, you can use the memory form of the 286 bt instruction, and it does the address calculation for you, no need to explicitly shift the address < 1553361732 525340 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1553361738 618029 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1553361751 184690 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has configured munin to monitor a lead acid battery voltage < 1553361875 224046 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://i.imgur.com/D7b4QvD.jpg < 1553361882 631509 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sensor is that little board with the yellow wire coming out < 1553361942 289596 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the Blorb format? < 1553361951 365631 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have heard of hamster pack format < 1553361965 852567 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: It is IFF based < 1553362149 397963 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-38.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: well no, it's actually a 386 instruction, not a 286 instruction, obviously < 1553362169 395575 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-38.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but other than that, yes < 1553362183 683846 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-38.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think the version you gave wouldn't even work < 1553362188 306253 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know it does the shift for you, that's a little weird in'nit? because it means that memory operands is different from others < 1553362191 308812 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION writes test program < 1553362202 431314 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1553362209 895533 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think shar is interestign < 1553362214 815603 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very "bootstrappable" < 1553362222 869052 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :any time you have a shell you can extract shars < 1553362229 992727 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are a type of self extracting archive < 1553362244 504070 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the old times a lot of compression formats came as self extracting archives < 1553362698 249426 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553363727 933601 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-248-68-130.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1553363813 115633 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's a bug and I got bored < 1553363821 118383 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but here's what I have if anyone else wants to play w/ it https://gcc.godbolt.org/z/Aj49i0 < 1553363860 916191 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1553363888 77327 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it... doesn't seem to be assembling right? < 1553363951 735181 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :had to add \n's in the asm < 1553363954 153546 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not needed locally < 1553363955 691635 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :freakin weird < 1553363967 658543 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it's just that i'm looking at .s and not disassembly, nm < 1553365100 937529 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1553365326 267979 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553367281 960298 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-248-68-130.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1553368009 565142 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1553368068 957994 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages- < 1553368069 76651 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 17h 42m 41s ago: I meant context-sensitive grammars <-- as a class in the chomsky hierarchy, they're not TC either < 1553368073 502746 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (.) < 1553368074 680266 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :(b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> a -> c < 1553368153 26067 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't remember the argument order < 1553368192 978429 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(context: OCaml has ($) and (flip $) in its standard library, under the names (@@) and (|>), but I needed to implement (.) and wanted to match Haskell's; I'm calling the new operator (@.)) < 1553368519 834163 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the maths order < 1553368523 628504 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is somewhat unconvenient < 1553368690 32505 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1553368762 944867 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1553369157 246868 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-248-68-130.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1553370041 735314 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: It doesn't matter in your example, but I think it's incorrect that you modify an input operand. < 1553370059 636606 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Warning: Do not modify the contents of input-only operands (except for inputs tied to outputs). The compiler assumes that on exit from the asm statement these operands contain the same values as they had before executing the statement. It is not possible to use clobbers to inform the compiler that the values in these inputs are changing. One common work-around is to tie the changing input variable to an < 1553370065 937397 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :output variable that never gets used." < 1553370181 780304 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So something like asm("..." : "=@ccc" (result), "=r" (dummy) : "r" (buf), "0" ((unsigned long) index)) or some-such. < 1553370194 467662 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, "1". < 1553374457 288374 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-38.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: or just make it an input-output operand, and don't use the variable after that < 1553374511 888938 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that requires a lvalue though. < 1553374530 129330 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can't do `(unsigned long) index` to make the size right. < 1553374858 991759 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the "more" mechanic is soo messy. < 1553374880 438110 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I found a bonus. < 1553376823 246889 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1553379419 491783 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-38.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` quote; wisdom < 1553379420 377714 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :202) I need a new desktop background j-invariant: Try http://codu.org/spinners.png (tiled) uhrghoaudp \ ronald reagan//Ronald Reagan was an actor so great that he managed to convince the US that he was the President. Then he created the Star Wars project to destroy the Soviet Union. < 1553379422 956621 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-38.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` wisdom; quote < 1553379425 950661 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​the u//The U are a very mad people. \ 393) MY CONTINUITY MY FANFICTION RUINED < 1553379505 82247 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1553379936 258457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1553380378 271668 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-37-248-68-130.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1553380536 975109 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1553381779 231515 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1553382371 643148 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1553382652 119998 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1553382859 759904 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1553384070 123052 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1553384082 855447 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought one music format could be a subset of the x86 real mode instruction set, with a subset of the I/O ports used in PC and PC sound cards. < 1553384227 831343 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: On ? ? < 1553384299 92216 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: It took me a long time to realize you could get there even after I had solutions to the relevant levels. < 1553384319 748570 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I spent a long time with keke instead of a flag. < 1553384869 38302 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553385149 971354 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1553385602 458998 :GeekDude!~G33kDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.1 < 1553387249 102349 :GeekDude!~G33kDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1553387558 849687 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1553387728 400537 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1553387729 386086 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1553389741 841050 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes on ?. < 1553389753 974015 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1553389781 980896 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I may have gotten lucky because I'm still stuck on a relevant level ;) < 1553389947 305749 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Baba is you is great < 1553390238 248925 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm you don't need a flag to reach ? < 1553390264 306772 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway. almost 20 hours. so much time wasted... < 1553390303 672649 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :still less than Recursed though < 1553390525 839194 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1553390853 279317 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked it up on Wikipedia. It look like a interesting idea. In Godel,Escher,Bach also is a idea about the pieces on a chess board affecting its own rules. < 1553391028 685273 :pikhq!~pikhq@c-73-181-126-9.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It is, and it's both presented and executed well. < 1553391377 236297 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553391649 383673 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1553392258 56825 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1553393610 503193 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote some ideas about my xyzabcde2 game, which is included in the source code download. Look if you are able to help with such idea (and perhaps other ideas that you may have) < 1553394636 240025 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553394883 243311 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1553395683 131450 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read a article about "Friendly C"; I do not agree with all of the features they propose, but I agree with some of them. Others I partially agree, or need more elaboration, or have other ideas about it, or sometimes just disagree. < 1553395836 32989 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://blog.regehr.org/archives/1180 I think 1 and 2 and 3 are good (note that in Glulx, a left or unsigned right shift by negative or shift-past-bitwidth is guaranteed to produce 0, but this is not guaranteed on all computers in general); however, with 1 I should also add that there is no guarantee that it will not also equal the address of a new object too. < 1553396010 982132 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the case of 10, it should be a flag to tell the compiler what to do (perhaps with a #pragma command or __attribute__). In case of 4, some computers might not trap when dereferencing a null pointer, and also side effects may be possible on some target computers, but the compiler can still assume there are no side effects (unless it is marked volatile), even if there are side effects. < 1553396191 769108 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree with 7 and 8, and with the second part of 12 (but the first part is different; it should be allowed but not mandatory that memmove and memcpy is same). I agree 14 also. With 9 I think instead the specification should guarantee that if you perform pointer arithmetic and then make the reverse of it (in the same number of steps or not), the result is same pointer as the original. < 1553397168 243060 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553397427 91130 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1553399253 825356 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1553399874 478272 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Oh, wait, I just realized what you did wasn't what I thought. < 1553399880 883502 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never mind what I said. < 1553403652 231207 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553403934 267830 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1553406067 896916 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I look at LLVM documentation for undefined values. I think that maybe there should be a "undefrandom" instruction, which the optimizer believes generates a random number with an unspecified distribution, but the actual effect of the instruction is to do nothing (and can be compiled into nothing). This way if you write %B = undefrandom i32 %C = xor %B, %B then the result is zero. < 1553410149 84828 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553410421 975627 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1553414586 240430 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553415893 727826 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if anyone working in any kind of computer, is using instructions for floating point for purposes other than working with floating point numbers. Do you know? < 1553416211 244478 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1553417826 67409 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-95-40-76-10.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1553418802 71189 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-95-40-76-10.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1553418955 723651 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-95-40-76-10.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1553419205 238793 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-38.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: there are a few tricks that may count, depending on what you count as "working with floating point numbers". in some non-x86 cpus that have built-in floating point, but no instruction to find the highest bit set in a word, you can find the highest bit set using the instruction that converts an integer to a floating point, then extracting the exponent part with like three more instructions. < 1553419309 19128 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-38.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some cases, you may do integer multiplications or divisions with floating point multiplication or division instructions if the range of your numbers is just right for that to be faster. this can come up on x86 for things like alpha-compositing two pixel graphics when _both_ have an alpha channel, since then you need vector divisions with a variable divisor. < 1553419358 146873 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-38.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a common case though: the common case of alpha-compositing is when one of the layers have no alpha channel, and that's easier. < 1553419564 60331 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-38.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some cases, you can use floating point instructions for the instruction-level parallelism, or for the additional registers on cpus that have separate floating point registers, but this kind of optimization is usually not worth the bother < 1553419669 516284 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, those are some stuff. Not really what I meant, but those are some tricks. (Those things do deal with floating point numbers though, rather than using floating point instructions on integers, which is what I meant.) Still, thank you for these explanations. < 1553419724 271802 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-38.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :on ancient x86_16, you could use the x87 instructions to format large integers to binary. you do this by loading from either an integer or a 64-bit floating point or a 80-bit floating point into the x86 register, then storing in decimal format. < 1553419763 656180 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-38.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that was only worth because the ancient x86_16 had very slow multiplication instructions < 1553419836 66064 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-38.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even then it's slow and might not be worth < 1553419856 199631 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-38.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in practice it's not helpful because back then people just didn't have the x87 hardware < 1553419876 76249 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-38.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by the time everyone had it, the x86 had faster multiplication on wider integers < 1553419901 101308 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-38.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and of course there are ancient computers, and some modern high-level languages, that only give you floating point numbers and floating point arithmetic < 1553419911 725179 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-38.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case of course you use those for integer stuff < 1553419919 630199 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-38.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this includes programmable calculators too < 1553419979 938526 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-38.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though in that case they're not really floating point _instructions_, they're floating point subroutines implemented in a simple 8-bit cpu that doesn't know what floating point means < 1553420242 727478 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-95-40-76-10.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1553420974 940594 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-95-40-76-10.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1553421881 941984 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-95-40-76-10.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1553422911 973569 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1553423602 236107 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-95-40-76-10.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1553424249 878378 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1553425548 233437 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1553430797 282324 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1553430962 88927 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1553430967 444648 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1553432162 807914 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thought I'd give PulseAudio a chance again, now that (well, some years ago) they added an "avoid-resampleing = true" option -- but turns out that for whatever reason, the Chrome + YouTube combination will still pick the 48 kHz Opus stream, internally resample to 44.1 kHz, and play that back. < 1553432168 990950 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I can see at chrome://media-internals that the player is using FFmpegAudioDecoder "code: opus, samples_per_second: 48000", but on the audio side the stream has "sample_rate: 44100".) < 1553432178 135070 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that's really PA's fault, actually it might've been even worse back on ALSA+dmix where I had the dmix output at 48 kHz; very possibly that was doing 48 -> 44.1 -> 48. < 1553432182 791365 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I also don't hear any of these differences, it's more of a matter of principle.) < 1553432836 748594 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I guess it might sort-of be PulseAudio's "fault", because AudioOutputResampler uses AudioManager::GetPreferredOutputStreamParameters to pick, and the Pulse and ALSA implementations are different. It's attempting to get the "native" sample rate from Pulse by calling pa_context_get_server_info and then using info->sample_spec.rate. I could probably change that by setting the default-sample-rate. < 1553432862 954840 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I guess it's always going to resample internally (don't see any flag to avoid AudioOutputResampler), so I should just guesstimate whether 44.1 or 48 is more common on the webs. < 1553433059 916733 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :...uh, now the output controller has a sample_rate of 48000, but the output *stream* is still 44100. Odd. < 1553433093 60198 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-38.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hmm. that sucks. < 1553434002 332318 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, looks like I just needed to restart Chrome. < 1553434034 768887 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-38.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: maybe you had multiple audio sources running in the browser, and they had to be mixed into a common sample rate? < 1553434064 908802 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be. I don't know if it does that within the browser, or as separate streams to PulseAudio. < 1553434084 539115 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-38.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I presume it would be PulseAudio that mixes them < 1553434098 995443 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-38.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least not the browser < 1553434115 459467 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-38.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but either pulseaudio or the hardware < 1553434117 396494 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's easy enough to verify by just opening another tab. < 1553434132 269725 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-38.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but it can't be just any tab < 1553434140 901190 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-38.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to be one with an audio running with different sample rate < 1553434187 684435 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "any tab" was enough to show that they're separate streams to PulseAudio. < 1553434217 328334 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's sort of obvious, otherwise you couldn't assign different tabs to different playback devices. < 1553434363 846377 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like if I open a 44.1 kHz .wav file, it's resampled in the browser to the common 48k now. Fair enough. < 1553434401 227320 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-38.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1553434418 134244 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-38.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but isn't 44.1 like the usual sample rate, because it was used on audio CDs? < 1553434428 448974 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-38.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, before we started to compress audio < 1553434463 936833 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I (at least for now) changed PulseAudio's default-sample-rate to 48000, so that's now what Chrome thinks is the "native" sample rate, and that's what it will output everything as, as far as I can determine. < 1553434532 928881 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'd prefer it if it just sent the streams to PulseAudio and let that make the decision, but from the code that didn't look achievable. < 1553434719 886215 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, again from the code, looks like that *is* what it should do normally, but if the audio player is requesting AudioParameters::AUDIO_PCM_LOW_LATENCY as the format (which seems to be the case for all media playback), it's going to use what it thinks is the "native" sample rate of the system. < 1553434755 803584 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://cs.chromium.org/chromium/src/media/audio/audio_manager_base.cc?l=341-344&rcl=9a9b2ae55f6b5de259deae781c20fdc9419abe7b < 1553434829 544591 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(GetPreferredOutputStreamParameters -> AudioManagerPulse::UpdateNativeAudioHardwareInfo -> pa_context_get_server_info, which returns /etc/pulse/daemon.conf's default_sample_rate.) < 1553436852 495146 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1553437308 832349 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, confirmed by playing something from SoundCloud that even when it's decoding a 44.1k file, Chrome will upsample to 48k. Oh well. It's not any *worse* than it was with ALSA, and at least now (a) Chrome won't be all "audio renderer error" when I forget to turn the DAC on, and (b) I don't need to change .asoundrc files if I happened to play back something local that's not at 48k. < 1553437815 219174 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553437874 404988 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1553437901 806270 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553438008 217573 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1553438038 95890 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553438215 983911 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: oh it's ??? < 1553438234 726756 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1553438728 721562 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ??? < 1553438730 672307 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​???? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1553439324 627543 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1553439790 165482 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That was again about Baba is You. < 1553440617 789477 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553440763 973653 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1553440907 733843 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1553441203 240955 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553441753 946879 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1553441769 997626 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1553442928 154987 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later > 1553443220 432365 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Infinite Vector14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60588&oldid=44805 5* 03Fmease 5* (+4540) 10Add talk about the very first implementation and thereby encountered issues > 1553444318 838621 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Infinite Vector14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60589&oldid=60588 5* 03Fmease 5* (+17) 10Fix wording < 1553444409 597781 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric > 1553444416 488833 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Fmease14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60590 5* 03Fmease 5* (+0) 10Create page < 1553446653 278326 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-95-40-76-10.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds > 1553447533 66967 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Infinite Vector14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60591&oldid=44773 5* 03Ais523 5* (+368) 10/* Control */ add initial-value > 1553447946 613877 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Infinite Vector14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60592&oldid=60591 5* 03Ais523 5* (+100) 10/* I/O */ how to fix the type of the input < 1553447982 933277 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-95-40-76-10.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl JOIN :#esoteric > 1553448172 731230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Infinite Vector14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60593&oldid=60592 5* 03Ais523 5* (+215) 10/* Commands */ types for shift/rotate > 1553448493 387876 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Infinite Vector14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60594&oldid=60589 5* 03Ais523 5* (+2208) 10/* Very first implementation and thereby encountered issues */ I fixed one, comments on the others < 1553448817 761039 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1553449210 943085 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553449572 206740 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: New kernel < 1553449639 994688 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1553450606 468108 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1553450980 284233 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553451314 818734 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553451420 277763 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1553453163 211742 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1553453801 13805 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Baba is You is hard ,_, < 1553454011 277643 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553454163 283680 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :push hard up and then easy into the space < 1553454238 254760 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@apn-95-40-76-10.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl PART :#esoteric < 1553454868 106333 :adu!~ajr@pool-70-110-26-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1553456112 678077 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1553457098 831728 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to install NNTP server software; what do you suggest? < 1553457154 125702 :sleffy!~sleffy@157-131-242-248.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553457163 486053 :sleffy!~sleffy@157-131-242-248.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1553457368 204814 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553459732 242469 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-38.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :america is strange < 1553459935 757183 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jvuunpjzubdepftz PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1553459970 549138 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-38.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, it seems strange when I hear about it through the internet or friends. I've never been there in person. < 1553460285 646424 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1553460618 752497 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :america is very strange < 1553460623 998281 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :though, I think each country is strange in some ways < 1553460631 329165 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you thinking of anything in particular < 1553460762 912517 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-38.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: well, right now I'm unfair because I'm thinking of things that apply in some parts of Euroep too < 1553460820 839284 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553460914 534175 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-kzlrfvygcljgwemf QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1553460932 845630 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-zjrqonavwauqegct JOIN :#esoteric < 1553461101 375243 :newbie78!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1553461270 826444 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1553461919 583557 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1553462050 781278 :bobby!~Bob@76.202.115.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1553462088 318413 :bobby!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:39ed:c833:1fd6:ada4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1553462497 193637 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1553462930 942621 :bobby!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:39ed:c833:1fd6:ada4 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1553463001 539921 :bobby!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:9d4e:d092:30f:40e JOIN :#esoteric < 1553463820 533904 :bobby!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:9d4e:d092:30f:40e QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1553463891 610449 :bobby!~Bob@76.202.115.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1553464248 967678 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553464259 243233 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1553464273 946068 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553464381 230524 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently (well 'currently' for a rather long definition of that word, maybe) some of Europe feels plenty strange too, what with everything around Brexit < 1553464442 899284 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-38.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: true < 1553465177 480768 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1553465749 775509 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I added into the Unusenet specification, an optional specification for accessing information about Unusenet over gopher. < 1553466113 954359 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Quit: Quitte < 1553467249 61494 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553467388 526780 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1553467401 216716 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553467768 883862 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1553468896 761929 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1553471517 597192 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1553471654 808788 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1553472021 271903 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc115608-york6-2-0-cust168.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553472668 986089 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-38.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1553473024 254826 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1553473974 283120 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553474048 61339 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1553474188 223413 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1553474191 397187 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1553474228 274018 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1553475141 365061 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Brexit is a good idea but they have to do it properly, and they seem not being figuring it out in time. But if they can do Brexit and they can do it properly, then it might avoid a problem in future, even if the immediately effect isn't < 1553475295 616239 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :brexit can't go well and i can prove it < 1553475336 787631 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is difficult, but I am not sure that it is absolutely can't go well. But, if you can prove, you can try to prove it. < 1553475349 97233 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And you can vote against it if you don't like Brexit) < 1553475360 187098 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :assume it could. brexit happens and everyone's happy and the pound even gains value < 1553475383 745018 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, and then what? < 1553475383 906121 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, every single one of the other member states will want to leave too < 1553475388 545852 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least italy will want to < 1553475392 426281 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :and france will want to < 1553475397 719136 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1553475433 371169 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically everyone except for maybe germany and the nordic countries? < 1553475471 920146 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, mass leaving from the eu < 1553475495 983477 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then what? < 1553475496 166358 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus the eu gets dismantled, market chaos ensues < 1553475518 33848 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :which will be a large enough crisis to top the 2008 one < 1553475531 337396 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the uk will suffer as well, just like everyone else < 1553475546 178868 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus contraddicting the assumption that brexit goes well < 1553475548 839263 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :qed < 1553475589 709474 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean it's not that far from a reasonable train of thought < 1553475606 901919 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I don't know if all of those other thing is true or not. So, it does not necessarily follow and is not absolutely a proof. But, I suppose it is a good guess, maybe. < 1553475669 785806 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really agree, i didn't assume much < 1553475678 909757 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :uk already had a weird position within the EU < 1553475690 419044 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no euro, own visa system, different treaty stuff < 1553475702 87582 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yes, and that is one thing why they should exit < 1553475702 919464 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so idk if it implies everyone else will want to leave, but maybe < 1553477157 618137 :newbie78!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1553477276 241701 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553477518 216113 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1553479987 362533 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1553480021 234661 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-73-157-90-101.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553483377 613073 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1553483734 18714 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553484002 29718 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1553484411 382714 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1553484849 748596 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553485573 423339 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553485762 821566 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1553486498 611263 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1553487345 244664 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553487524 402582 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1553490214 278309 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553490478 259113 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1553495895 524248 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1553495923 260945 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553497748 245461 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553497763 382601 :aloril_!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a2f-120.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1553497930 228985 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1553497971 401486 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a1c-218.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1553499407 99313 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1553500109 89074 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553503452 797355 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1553503621 217267 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1553504793 641475 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( one could name an esolang Macarena ) < 1553506893 171538 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1553507255 587426 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1553507775 239453 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1553511087 996628 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60595 5* 03A 5* (+1293) 10Created page with "[[Powder]] is an [[esoteric programming language]] based on defining tables. This is influenced by this file(powder.conf):
 { "Decoration" :  { "Alpha" : 255, "Blue..."
> 1553511160 71195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60596&oldid=60595 5* 03A 5* (+1750) 10
> 1553511216 234734 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60597&oldid=60596 5* 03A 5* (+887) 10
> 1553511239 181784 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60598&oldid=60597 5* 03A 5* (+57) 10
> 1553511254 280713 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60599&oldid=60598 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10
< 1553514608 976447 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1553514798 515194 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60600&oldid=60599 5* 03A 5* (+30) 10
> 1553514820 948200 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60601&oldid=60600 5* 03A 5* (+19) 10
< 1553514833 656121 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
> 1553514852 238196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60602&oldid=60601 5* 03A 5* (+18) 10
> 1553514896 135997 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60603&oldid=60602 5* 03A 5* (-34) 10
> 1553515283 340937 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60604&oldid=60603 5* 03A 5* (+262) 10/* Documentation */
> 1553515557 132295 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60605&oldid=60604 5* 03A 5* (+86) 10
< 1553517236 439252 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553517442 217944 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1553517442 604163 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
> 1553520287 676366 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60606&oldid=60605 5* 03A 5* (+4) 10/* Computational Class */
> 1553520315 735957 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60607&oldid=60606 5* 03A 5* (+11) 10/* Computational Class */
> 1553520329 285568 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60608&oldid=60607 5* 03A 5* (-15) 10/* Computational Class */
> 1553520407 370463 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60609&oldid=60608 5* 03A 5* (+10) 10/* Documentation */
< 1553520501 427091 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553521162 767446 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :i found a working MC88110 \o/
< 1553521172 591008 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :some bent pins, but those should be fixable
< 1553521172 716289 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.54.203 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
> 1553521196 384 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60610&oldid=60609 5* 03A 5* (-18) 10
> 1553521296 697228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60611&oldid=60610 5* 03A 5* (+4) 10
< 1553521304 676208 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be nice if i knew the cooling requirements for it tho
< 1553521324 860050 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure the manual doesn't list how many watts of heat it emits when operating
> 1553521440 588372 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60612&oldid=60611 5* 03A 5* (+171) 10/* Documentation */
> 1553521472 107974 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60613&oldid=60612 5* 03A 5* (+13) 10
< 1553521605 146363 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
> 1553523049 12847 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60614&oldid=60613 5* 03A 5* (+9) 10/* Influenced by */
> 1553523235 496464 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60615&oldid=60614 5* 03A 5* (+3) 10/* Computational Class */
> 1553523257 106197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60616&oldid=60615 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10/* Computational Class */
> 1553523476 262382 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60617&oldid=60616 5* 03A 5* (+363) 10
> 1553523502 78156 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60618&oldid=60617 5* 03A 5* (-14) 10
> 1553523518 353696 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60619&oldid=60618 5* 03A 5* (+17) 10
> 1553523549 641997 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60620&oldid=60619 5* 03A 5* (+14) 10
> 1553523650 784747 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60621&oldid=60620 5* 03A 5* (+4) 10/* Documentation */
> 1553523771 638217 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60622&oldid=60621 5* 03A 5* (+70) 10/* Documentation */
> 1553523822 672032 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60623&oldid=60622 5* 03A 5* (+55) 10/* Documentation */
> 1553523894 380437 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60624&oldid=60623 5* 03A 5* (-125) 10/* Documentation */
> 1553523926 358755 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60625&oldid=60624 5* 03A 5* (+4) 10/* Documentation */
> 1553523987 454164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60626&oldid=60625 5* 03A 5* (+27) 10/* Influenced by */
> 1553524005 398657 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60627&oldid=60626 5* 03A 5* (-175) 10/* Documentation */
> 1553524286 539297 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60628&oldid=60627 5* 03A 5* (+163) 10/* Documentation */
< 1553524848 453186 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553524988 470632 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a known javascript subset with fewer characters than jsfuck?
> 1553525957 188747 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60629&oldid=60628 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10/* Influenced by */
< 1553526049 49970 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :that esolang would give jacob1 a kick. Someone was inspired to make an esolang by The Powder Toy
> 1553526101 851428 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60630&oldid=60629 5* 03A 5* (+24) 10
< 1553526119 650063 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553526124 827993 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloerjan
< 1553526192 796944 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :good afternoony
< 1553526202 496209 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ollehrjan
< 1553526216 434434 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-ello
> 1553526239 914327 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60631&oldid=60630 5* 03Moon 5* (-16) 10The powder.conf file is in JSON. You may wish to update the "Influenced By" section
< 1553526264 232254 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :is A on irc?
< 1553526322 136129 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony_: I don't think so; anybody here would probably get annoyed by the esowiki spam from doing so many baby edits :P
< 1553526333 650119 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1553526337 455346 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again there's /ignore
> 1553526425 267760 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60632&oldid=60631 5* 03A 5* (-347) 10/* Documentation */
> 1553526511 195348 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60633&oldid=60585 5* 03Moon 5* (+610) 10New message.
> 1553526644 869005 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60634&oldid=60632 5* 03A 5* (-77) 10/* Documentation */
< 1553526666 113724 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was hoping the message would get their attention.
> 1553526772 131991 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60635&oldid=60634 5* 03A 5* (-108) 10/* Documentation */
< 1553526809 682901 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1553526810 402361 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :derp
< 1553526813 16210 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :i put it on the wrong page
> 1553526827 414064 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60636&oldid=60633 5* 03Moon 5* (-610) 10Wrong Page
> 1553526848 44924 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60637&oldid=60489 5* 03Moon 5* (+613) 10/* Hello! */ new section
< 1553526984 135675 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :lord snackleford appears to be summoning the Gone Horribly Right trope.
< 1553526995 764478 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :???
< 1553527008 286385 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(over at girl genius)
< 1553527095 145747 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :too many possibilities for _how_ it's horrible at the moment.
> 1553527427 33630 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60638&oldid=60635 5* 03A 5* (+594) 10/* Computational Class */
> 1553527483 836539 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60639&oldid=60637 5* 03A 5* (-613) 10Thanks for noting that. Clear page
< 1553527511 635206 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( CLS )
< 1553527524 54653 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( Back to the BASICs )
> 1553527629 473826 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60640&oldid=60369 5* 03A 5* (+257) 10/* P0pCrn */
> 1553527677 932728 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60641&oldid=60569 5* 03A 5* (+231) 10/* PoGo */
< 1553527768 928139 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony_: Someone was inspired to make an esolang by The Powder Toy => oh wow, I’ve seen that toy
< 1553527793 191555 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me see if A have done a decent job for once…
< 1553528040 649637 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm it’s not inspired by The Powder Toy per se :(((
< 1553528056 548332 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea ):
< 1553528066 621819 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: have you seen what's possible in modern TPT?
< 1553528092 442053 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/siraben/r216-forth
< 1553528356 989973 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do A clear their talk page each time. Do they think they have perfect memory?
< 1553528478 334285 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony_: ummm, I have seen some things people uploaded, but I didn’t look too closely, usually I open TPT to mess with something in silly ways
< 1553528495 628794 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :see the link i posted :P
< 1553528523 794130 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1553528570 88976 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hm btw did they add polonium so we could do, in xkcd terms, polonium-bending?..)
< 1553528636 547127 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i added it for fun
< 1553528644 125846 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :simon never finished it, so i just gave it some polish
< 1553528646 131446 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wow, forth!)
< 1553528669 529777 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what you contribute to TPT? nice!!
< 1553528685 61344 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: LBPHacker, the guy who made that computer, has plans to make a computer that performs 4 ops/frame
< 1553528935 48618 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it do for now? (I haven’t open it yet to see for myself)
< 1553529407 149885 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553529425 885099 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: the R216 computer runs one instruction per game frame
< 1553529459 870013 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :all instructions run at the same speed, so usually the challange of writing code for the R216 is making it as small as possible for the same performance
< 1553529493 154244 :moony_!4b6c6ba6@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1553529502 508860 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony__: 1 op/frame, nice!
< 1553529547 469588 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can ask lbphacker how it's done, or mark2222, in #powder-subframe if you like
< 1553529583 617022 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you
< 1553529760 419500 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don’t think it would be soon, though. But I’ll definitely run that thing
< 1553530081 92985 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1553530111 657356 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.54.203 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553530174 806403 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553531082 808080 :moony__!4b6c6ba6@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1553534635 377862 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later
< 1553535259 197902 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1553536196 776704 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00212bbe6f9a884622.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553536296 428435 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00212bbe6f9a884622.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1553536364 881279 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a004016ec91d295d3b4.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553536470 13170 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a004016ec91d295d3b4.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1553536485 203135 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a004016ec91d295d3b4.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553537705 926515 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a004016ec91d295d3b4.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1553538035 523544 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-11.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553538155 842405 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553538495 261479 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553539331 65601 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1553540294 829786 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-11.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` set -e; cd wisdom; echo *le
< 1553540296 118482 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :apple aristotle article d-module e-module flagpole google guillible internationale klein bottle laver table le locale maple mapole merchantable misle module mole nooodle norrible perpetuum mobile pineapple ratatouille ridicule steam sale subtle tadpole thausible title tribble trisecting the angle unréliable
< 1553540300 263355 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553540300 303006 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc108439-cowc8-2-0-cust785.14-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host
< 1553540300 303119 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553540329 695960 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-11.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? le
< 1553540330 851134 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: le: Is a directory
< 1553540337 319743 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-11.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1553540338 474195 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a006dc638f4a61ac057.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553540385 555034 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-11.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? misle
< 1553540386 764876 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :misle v. tr. "I was misled about morphology."
< 1553540410 434997 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-11.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? tribble
< 1553540415 221870 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :99 tribbles on the wall, take one down, pass it around, 117 tribbles on the wall.
< 1553540437 938771 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-11.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? tamale
< 1553540439 105143 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tamale? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1553540446 959270 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a006dc638f4a61ac057.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1553540455 294044 :LKoen!~LKoen@lfbn-idf2-1-273-77.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553541169 81629 :LKoen!~LKoen@lfbn-idf2-1-273-77.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1553541251 455551 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00b832bc86675e7ad2.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553541436 170274 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553541727 67425 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
> 1553541848 379806 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Koyodyne 5*  10New user account
> 1553542248 484345 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60642&oldid=60556 5* 03Koyodyne 5* (+146) 10
> 1553542302 767491 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Void 5*  10New user account
> 1553542638 930757 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60643&oldid=60642 5* 03Void 5* (+161) 10
> 1553542660 498826 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60644&oldid=60643 5* 03Void 5* (+72) 10
> 1553543405 857467 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60645&oldid=60553 5* 03Void 5* (+12) 10
< 1553543701 269641 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
> 1553544522 16985 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RarVM14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60646 5* 03Void 5* (+3656) 10Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=rarVM |paradigms=imperative |author=[[void4]] |year=[[:Category:2019|2019]] |memsys=stack-based |dimensions=tree-based |class=:Category:Turing compl..."
> 1553544847 575921 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RarVM14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60647&oldid=60646 5* 03Void 5* (+445) 10
> 1553545016 399946 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RarVM14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60648&oldid=60647 5* 03Void 5* (+26) 10
> 1553545235 32726 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RarVM14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60649&oldid=60648 5* 03Void 5* (+102) 10
> 1553545318 101595 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RarVM14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60650&oldid=60649 5* 03Void 5* (+99) 10
< 1553545405 139263 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"“From what we’ve been able to uncover, this traditional maroon garment denotes that this man was a member of a fraternal cult known as ‘TTC Operators.’ These individuals must have been highly respected, as Torontonians would regularly pay homage to them before entering the subterranean chariot loading zone. You can see the slots where people would make offerings in the form of coins or metallic tokens.”"
< 1553545414 26751 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"“From what we’ve been able to uncover, this traditional maroon garment denotes that this man was a member of a fraternal cult known as ‘TTC Operators.’ These individuals must have been highly respected, as Torontonians would regularly pay homage to them before entering the subterranean chariot loading zone. You can see the slots where people would make offerings in the form of coins or metallic tokens.”"
< 1553545420 7005 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Dr. Kathy Gibson of the University of Winnipeg’s Faculty of Archaeology is one of them. She said the subway system is too small to have been of much practical use to most Torontonians, and therefore must have been ceremonial. She added as proof: “No real subway system would have a line consisting of only five stops that goes to nothing but an uninhabitable wasteland.”"
< 1553545503 885907 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
> 1553545521 449109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RarVM14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60651&oldid=60650 5* 03Void 5* (+400) 10
> 1553545560 255772 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RarVM14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60652&oldid=60651 5* 03Void 5* (+1) 10
< 1553548047 155029 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00b832bc86675e7ad2.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1553548064 499126 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00b832bc86675e7ad2.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553550303 263588 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1553550311 155346 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553550679 168718 :brandonson!~brandon@208.91.114.1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1553553641 51305 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553554286 595378 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00b832bc86675e7ad2.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
< 1553556133 170832 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1553556362 971415 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-11.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 4!10
< 1553556676 137370 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-11.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1553556890 934120 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1553557606 122741 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1553558397 424767 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553558570 13566 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1553558589 223797 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553560111 346478 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting
< 1553560494 800202 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553560677 87047 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1553560677 474134 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1553560958 777769 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1553562749 297100 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh i hate web pages that steal clicks such that you accidentally follow a link when trying to do something else
< 1553562843 790011 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of porn sites do that
< 1553562893 880103 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this time it was SE's chat archive, of all things
< 1553562900 976579 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I generally disable scripts and alter CSS if necessary, so mostly is avoiding that; maybe there are other ways to make up the setting for events to control that
< 1553562942 268341 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is possible i actually accidentally clicked twice.
< 1553562971 179774 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(One feature I would like is the ability to replace individual scripts on a webpage with my own versions.)
< 1553562974 692902 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i was selecting a link with the right button to copy it, and ended up following it.)
< 1553563001 761659 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was reading a site that used hot pink text on white background :(
< 1553563007 481200 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Including such things as replacing jQuery with my own version on any webpages that use that)
< 1553563012 903106 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are other times i _do_ want the script there, when following quoting links
< 1553563013 177023 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the content was actually quite good and important
< 1553563022 12623 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fixed it with element inspector
< 1553563030 793633 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I wonder the best way to link it to other people
< 1553563047 29258 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i use that a lot to get rid of annoyingly large horizontal bars
< 1553563054 176035 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know of a way to construct a link with a custom style sheet
< 1553563083 713748 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than a javascript: url that you have to visit after
< 1553563093 621708 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know of any way either, but I do often customize CSS of other webpages (although this is usually not needed if the webpage has no CSS at all)
< 1553563096 826105 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553563099 611415 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I could host a page which shows it in an iframe
< 1553563122 17280 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just mirror the content and hope to not get in copyright trouble
< 1553563136 958243 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or copy the entire text into my Facebook post when I share it
< 1553563148 2399 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :another solution to bad color choices is print to pdf
< 1553563184 652228 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I prefer to not set any colours in making webpages, instead using the user settings; unless it needs to have some colours to indicate different kind of stuff)
< 1553563372 724303 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1553563860 359403 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ais523 has on some occasions on ppcg pointed out that (hindley-milner) typed SKI calculus isn't TC, and you need Y too. but i also seem to recall something about Y _not_ being enough if you don't have arithmetic...
< 1553563874 293920 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Y=fix)
< 1553563923 937787 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :vaguely recalling something about decidable halting problem...
< 1553564107 958259 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i cannot seem to google this.
< 1553564930 42285 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should get something to eat before he starts banning people for not answering.
< 1553569567 243426 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553569855 250801 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1553570401 492034 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :never mind, the thing i was trying to use it for won't work anyway
< 1553570522 886378 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn QUIT :Quit: lol rip
< 1553573524 381210 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
< 1553574437 242235 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :
< 1553577666 70496 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I partially implemented a NNTP server software, mainly, because I could not find another one that seemed suitable to my use
> 1553579996 361648 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ragaraja14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60653&oldid=60587 5* 03Mauriceling 5* (+307) 10/* Description of Commands / Instructions */
> 1553582700 389396 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ragaraja14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60654&oldid=60653 5* 03Mauriceling 5* (+9077) 10Added implementation flag
< 1553586296 989104 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553586648 554616 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-stcjkqkejuoyeqcw JOIN :#esoteric
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> 1553596022 980303 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ragaraja14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60655&oldid=60654 5* 03Mauriceling 5* (+160) 10/* References to Biology */
> 1553598801 440367 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60656&oldid=60638 5* 03A 5* (+219) 10Add purpose
> 1553598855 152751 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60657&oldid=60656 5* 03A 5* (+3) 10And sorry for making a small edit
> 1553599616 308991 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck implementations14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60658&oldid=59708 5* 03Tromp 5* (+106) 10add interpreter written in lambda calculus
< 1553600665 96833 :ocharles!sid30093@musicbrainz/user/ocharles QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1553600725 193346 :ocharles!sid30093@musicbrainz/user/ocharles JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553603729 820336 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553603914 481 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1553603914 418636 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
> 1553606383 269099 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60659 5* 03Arcorann 5* (+1749) 10Created page with "'''A''' is a programming language that uses only the letter A in its source code. Its creation year is uncertain but no later than 2008.  == Description ==  A program with les..."
> 1553606584 472660 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60660&oldid=60659 5* 03Arcorann 5* (+11) 10/* See also */
> 1553606808 975773 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60661&oldid=60660 5* 03Arcorann 5* (+28) 10
< 1553607625 93263 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-stcjkqkejuoyeqcw QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1553612473 639850 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dolwoxphxypnrioj JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553612513 653635 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
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< 1553612886 69357 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553614409 36523 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553614644 305489 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i realized an intuitive argument for why (simply/hindley-milner) typed SKIY isn't TC without infinite "basis" types: without them, the number of functions of every type you can construct is finite, so you can solve the halting problem by explicitly evaluating their CPO denotations.
< 1553614700 971044 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still would like to remember the reference someone gave to this before, though.
< 1553614738 182490 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/every/each/
< 1553614859 784521 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting, it's not turing complete but it has programs that diverge?
< 1553614924 265668 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, e.g. YI
< 1553614937 371988 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is just f x=f x)
< 1553614943 238555 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553614978 925469 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let f x=f x in f
< 1553614980 60038 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :t1 -> t2
< 1553614984 761255 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: R. Statman, "The λY calculus" shows that the word problem is decidable for that calculus.
< 1553615022 689303 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh
< 1553615038 834346 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that does seem like the same thing.
< 1553615050 527327 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well no
< 1553615066 947259 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i am looking for sounds wearker than that
< 1553615083 728014 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, wait, I'm misrepresenting this
< 1553615109 506884 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the halting problem is decidable; the word problem is decidable if Y is restricted to a single type (o -> o) -> o.
< 1553615114 872074 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not in general.
< 1553615154 339015 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1553615163 2262 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I get the finiteness angle though; even the simply typed lamda calculus has infinitely many inhabitants of (o -> o) -> o -> o.
< 1553615186 553684 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it doesn't for a specific o of finite size
< 1553615228 102273 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: yes it does: all church numerals have that type.
< 1553615236 585448 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1553615242 465511 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh I see.
< 1553615252 929369 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan's talking about models.
< 1553615254 907746 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the church numerals collapse
< 1553615265 457837 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the "CPO" didn't fully register)
< 1553615280 972336 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's, like, three or four functions of type (() -> ()) -> () -> ()
< 1553615287 349360 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a particular set, only finitely many of them are unequal.
< 1553615292 61575 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*finite set
< 1553615338 611406 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm not sure whether this helps; the calculus operates on terms, and the main problem is distinguishing terms representing _|_ from everything else.
< 1553615358 835057 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(id, const id, const (const _|_))
< 1553615389 692677 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: for solving the halting problem, though, all you need is to evaluate with all the free variables = ()
< 1553615395 699257 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*type variables
< 1553615402 759114 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Bool if you like that better
< 1553615430 209560 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm I need to think about this... it sounds too good to be true.
< 1553615588 317034 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is your "basis type" terminology standard?
< 1553615792 590607 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course my reference has the annoying problem that SKI and lambda calculus are not perfectly aligned.)
< 1553616146 341999 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: not that i know of
< 1553616204 248071 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: denotationally they are, i should think
< 1553616246 10632 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i got to thinking about because i had doubts about a proof on PPCG that haskell is TC with just ()=;
< 1553616250 657124 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*about this
< 1553616281 507093 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that fails for this reason
< 1553616320 746791 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*just the characters
< 1553616500 702383 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does that work at all?
< 1553616602 296671 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you use (======) as identifiers
< 1553616610 628878 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see
< 1553616709 339938 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's cute
< 1553616994 363399 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553617427 128844 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(======)? nice!
< 1553617450 937108 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good day everyone
< 1553617473 342922 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello
< 1553617479 419452 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: could polymorphic recursion help out the proof in this case? And the fact that some terms have more than one type
< 1553617895 712857 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on an unrelated subject: I have an idea to make something akin to Metamath but with more structured approach: there would still be metavariables of user-declared sorts, but formulas would be no simple strings, but terms of these sorts, and there would be language support for bound variables. Term constructors would be user-declared, and to declare binders, the language basically contains lambda-calculus, but terms of arbitrary sorts aren’t allowed, 
< 1553617895 832178 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I hope their unification will be decidable
< 1553617983 741002 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: you need a type signature for polymorphic recursion, although i'm not sure if that's enough for TC-ness
< 1553618043 725130 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: i don't think more than one type helps, because you can always duplicated definition to avoid using that.
< 1553618076 879802 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but eg. (===)(====)=(====) has an infinite number of types
< 1553618112 889373 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but you'll only ever use a finite number when running a program
< 1553618138 899075 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ghc defaults types to Any as i recall)
< 1553618157 48843 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(without polymorphic recursion)
< 1553618236 13181 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*unrestricted types
< 1553618244 584668 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right
< 1553618254 297540 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1553618311 902281 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be possible to make it TC by adding a few specific primitives, such as three list primitives and while
< 1553618339 161381 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, probably even arithmetic and while is enough, as you say 
< 1553618381 579097 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :although while has a generic type
< 1553618428 285372 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: oh hi, that reminds me, you remember the PPCG challenge for making several quines with no characters in common, and how you suggested 3 might be possible in perl? Jo King made such an answer in perl 6 https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/181246/
< 1553618439 881134 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: whoa
< 1553618442 401077 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIX?
< 1553618449 229135 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, "perl 6"
< 1553618452 328631 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1553618454 772249 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's better
< 1553618454 811809 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh
< 1553618475 532184 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :good
< 1553618483 880592 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: i believe ():;1- is TC
< 1553618492 813837 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for the haskell)
< 1553618510 190236 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how does that work? how do you make functions?
< 1553618517 186230 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1553618526 572202 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :typo, ()=;1-
< 1553618531 559415 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok
< 1553618543 728641 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how that works, but that's at least more believable
< 1553618568 664107 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right
< 1553618570 421711 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1-(-1)
< 1553618572 212745 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2
< 1553618575 68724 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1553618577 369752 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just make recursive function definitions
< 1553618592 941589 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :named functions, refering to themselves by name
< 1553618597 238396 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you said above with (===)
< 1553618603 582955 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best thing is, you can now comment your code
< 1553618608 539099 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been trying to think of a version with 5 chars but i cannot make it work
< 1553618611 14307 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :only now you can use - too, so you get a slightly more conveient character set
< 1553618611 907347 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: yeay
< 1553618681 642118 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: could you use ()=;: and use lists terminated by some special value consed with undef?
< 1553618686 166986 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of arithmetic that is
< 1553618707 775949 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, lists of true and false, with the tail being undef
< 1553618780 557617 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes, ()=;:' should work
< 1553618790 20443 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: apostrophe?
< 1553618795 709451 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for char literals
< 1553618805 204430 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you need char literals?
< 1553618826 895654 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, just use two different well-typed functions to represent true and false
< 1553618833 78578 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shortest way to get something to put in the lists that you can distinguish two values of
< 1553618841 974481 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mytrue x y = x; myfalse x y = y;
< 1553618843 415068 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm...
< 1553618850 362328 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then just call them to distinguish them
< 1553618853 467860 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: oh maybe that does work
< 1553618863 910052 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell rules again, so those will be polymorphic functions
< 1553618888 991846 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that may give trouble with the original obstruction...
< 1553618894 163434 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00bc52c3c502252404.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553618908 760720 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they won't be polymorphic in a particular list
< 1553618950 480471 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe it's close enough...
< 1553618957 24592 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm
< 1553618974 263895 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah ...
< 1553618991 945524 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553618998 658641 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523
< 1553619060 697123 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1553619079 175189 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think you may be able to help with this discussion
< 1553619120 758681 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan was thinking of how he could choose a small set of characters so that Haskell with the source code containing just those characters is a turing-complete language
< 1553619146 237509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: see the top answer on the PPCG question about Turing-complete subsets of languages' character sets
< 1553619147 571967 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :he threw in the idea that the four characters ()=; lets you define functions with names like (=====) and arguments with such names too
< 1553619158 378010 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe (=); is the character set chosen, yes
< 1553619159 750829 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, I think that's what spawned this
< 1553619166 59954 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but oerjan says that it's not clear if that works
< 1553619169 957165 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I agree with him
< 1553619171 645748 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, I'm starting to have doubts about whether SKI+fix is enough
< 1553619185 699898 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a strongly typed language
< 1553619187 510805 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oerjan is convinced that it isn't
< 1553619214 128615 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc, we have more than SKI+fix here; we have the entirety of typed lambda calculus + recursion
< 1553619343 63305 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but that's just really syntactic sugar over SKIY
< 1553619373 246421 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I guess you're right and ()=;:' or ()=;:1 should be enough
< 1553619435 620035 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :typed church lists are a bit complicated aren't they
< 1553619440 93016 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a weirder idea i had was x"|>=;
< 1553619441 102518 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the type of the list encodes the types of its elements?
< 1553619456 897540 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :originally without the |, so it was my best idea for getting 5
< 1553619458 651236 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably can't make a homogeneously-typed list without some kind of injection type :/
< 1553619475 388554 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how does that work?
< 1553619493 744301 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "xxx">"xxxx"
< 1553619495 777551 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : False
< 1553619520 325649 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm not entirely sure it works, but you have monadic operations >>= and >> and comparisons == > >=
< 1553619535 778877 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to write fib with (=); for a while and gave up, but it's probably doable
< 1553619539 846767 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but how do you define functions or call functions or something? you have no space or parens
< 1553619542 14091 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :got into some occurs check hell
< 1553619564 355549 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: x""xx=xxx>>=xxxx
< 1553619570 323880 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like that
< 1553619572 935027 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1553619576 669918 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding type signatures to figure it out is tricky because a church numeral should be  type Church = forall a. (a -> a) -> a -> a, but that doesn't fly in vanilla Haskell
< 1553619577 596478 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :dummy string argument
< 1553619579 996373 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting
< 1553619594 667484 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't thought that one all through though
< 1553619599 877377 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about ()\->
< 1553619612 320230 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :write lambda calculus, with names like (>>>>)
< 1553619614 453396 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: no recursion
< 1553619620 762141 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because types
< 1553619621 939224 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of the types again?
< 1553619622 847539 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1553619639 984694 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was the original version of another PPCG answer
< 1553619729 205194 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: on a previous occasion someone, i think here, said that fix without something like integers is not enough in a typed LC (simply or hindley/milner, i'm not sure) although i've forgot the reference. int-e gave another above.
< 1553619752 938653 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if we could use square brackets instead of parenthesis
< 1553619771 191475 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :define functions that take each argument in a single-element list
< 1553619781 265373 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm wondering if you can do it using the (a->a)->(a->a) type for Church numerals
< 1553619791 613769 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: that doesn't let you create identifiers
< 1553619796 174025 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we get empty lists and one element lists "for free"
< 1553619806 381469 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, that is a problem
< 1553619824 318698 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that would need 5 chars
< 1553619829 903735 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 6 or what
< 1553619830 928575 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1553619834 825570 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[]=;x
< 1553619859 181255 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :woyld that work?
< 1553619861 929213 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you could use : rather than []?
< 1553619875 83557 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that might run into type issues
< 1553619888 151608 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd definitely be enough in an untyped language, given that you have structure, destructure, recursion
< 1553619904 674292 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you need an argument separator then
< 1553619911 401583 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you mean ()=;:
< 1553619935 335458 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ()=;:1 works, oerjan's suggestion was ()=;:' which should work too
< 1553619975 382222 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about x=;:'
< 1553620035 401782 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : []=;x <-- i considered that one and the problem was no way to construct larger values
< 1553620082 667950 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: you can't pattern match with : then
< 1553620108 358751 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or apply functions
< 1553620113 176523 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what do you mean by "larger values"?
< 1553620139 321646 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can construct [[[[[[[]]]]]]]
< 1553620154 966504 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but that has no fixed type
< 1553620158 745711 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1553620161 73404 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1553620165 328784 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can't have numbers
< 1553620170 34638 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, then that won't work
< 1553620246 722019 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really quite awkward how 5 just seems to slip away for several different reasons
< 1553620281 763313 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let x'x'xx=xx; xxx='x' in x'x'xxx
< 1553620283 787066 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : error:
< 1553620283 872709 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :     • Variable not in scope: xx
< 1553620283 912377 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :     • Perhaps you meant one of these:
< 1553620289 587946 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there language options you can give to infer the type of Church numerals correctly?
< 1553620304 582920 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh
< 1553620305 955642 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: alas ' is an identifier char too
< 1553620306 292861 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's PPCG?
< 1553620310 523261 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \f x->f (f (f (f x)))
< 1553620311 606430 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :(t -> t) -> t -> t
< 1553620316 737108 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: codegolf.stackexchange.com
< 1553620327 925832 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: isn'tr x'x'xx a single variable?
< 1553620328 93630 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wheres pp from
< 1553620332 614281 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ...so why not x=;:"
< 1553620333 304372 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly the world's largest users of esolangs?
< 1553620342 291000 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: ppcg = programming puzzles and code golf
< 1553620342 447603 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::i x'x'xx
< 1553620353 104805 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@type x'x'xx
< 1553620353 683778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although they basically gave up on the programming puzzles quite early on, the name didn't change
< 1553620354 264544 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :error: Variable not in scope: x'x'xx
< 1553620369 805492 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oddly, puzzling.stackexchange.com are typically quite willing to do programming puzzles)
< 1553620422 941366 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: inferring the type of Church numerals would be ImpredicativeTypes, a ghc extension which probably never quite worked for that and has languished so long it's now essentially unsupported and broken for nearly everything.
< 1553620440 940507 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and puzzling.stackexchange.com has very few questions about creating puzzles, it's almost all questions that are puzzle
< 1553620459 6551 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: questions about creating and solving puzzles are ontopic but rarely asked
< 1553620466 899742 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep
< 1553620484 133054 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let add a b f x = a f (b f x); zero f x = x; one f x = f x; fibs n a b = n b (add a b); fibz a b = a; fib n = n fibs fibz zero one in let church n f x = iterate f x !! n; int n = n succ 0 in map (int . fib . church) [0..10]
< 1553620486 122339 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55]
< 1553620492 130987 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: ...so why not x=;:" <-- no pattern matching of : in function arguments
< 1553620501 972861 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I discovered recently, even Stack Overflow has a similar issue; it was intended to be a collaborative build-an-FAQ site for programming but turned into a help-me-debug-this site
< 1553620532 871218 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: doesn't it still have lots of FAQ though?
< 1553620542 664012 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check
< 1553620545 594713 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: nah, they just get closed for duplicaiton ;P
< 1553620551 616533 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: aargh
< 1553620554 7167 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't visit SO much, it's just too large for me
< 1553620554 380333 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes, there are still plenty of those around, mostly from earlier in the site's history
< 1553620607 395937 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they added a new ask-a-question wizard recently which insists that you post code samples
< 1553620616 216461 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's optional, but it excludes basically any FAQ from being asked when used
< 1553620648 82098 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, you seem to be right
< 1553620701 455961 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :such a nice type: fib::(((((a->a)->a->a)->((a->a)->a->a)->(a->a)->a->a)->((a->a)->a->a)->((a->a)->a->a)->(a->a)->a->a)->(((a->a)->a->a)->((a->a)->a->a)->(a->a)->a->a)->((a->a)->a->a)->((a->a)->a->a)->(a->a)->a->a)->(a->a)->a->a
< 1553620804 329340 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow
< 1553620816 352362 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah so fib exists.
< 1553620820 648630 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: does that example show that SKIY is in fact TC in a typed lazy language?
< 1553620829 93231 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose primitive recursion is probably possible, then.
< 1553620886 131705 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if a is a finite type, you can only distinguish finitely many fib types.
< 1553620889 865999 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no. fib is primitive recursive. note that Y is not even used.
< 1553620889 959221 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: um, but can you get rid of the iterate and (!!) things?
< 1553620897 411377 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: they're just for testing
< 1553620902 167087 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, values
< 1553620939 389615 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so you're saying that even without them you can at least get primitive recursion, even deeper than the single exponential that fib does?
< 1553620949 696874 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: The first let defines a fibonacci function (of sorts); The second let defines conversions between Church numerals and Int.
< 1553620988 894049 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes, if you're willing to use sufficiently big types for the church numerals.
< 1553621003 902035 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1553621032 374461 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren’t Church numerals basically unfolders? (so, primitive recursion)
< 1553621033 492261 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so the technique int-e used above is limited to primitive recursion, because its only control flow structure is the while loop
< 1553621043 491711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, the for loop
< 1553621061 103815 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or I remember it wrong, and some other numerals are unfolders)
< 1553621080 712688 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(maybe Church—Scott if it means a different thing)
< 1553621109 60755 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a result that Church numerals at type (o -> o) -> o -> o gives you something called extended polynomials only (in simply typed lambda calculus; no Y).
< 1553621136 969629 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfgz2ng38e2jxt.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553621139 412525 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, EU copyright thing thing, just have to mention it on the channel, would be strange if nobody did
< 1553621187 282396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: the article 11 / article 13 thing?
< 1553621200 392776 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, or the whole vote and stuff
< 1553621212 974244 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the article 13 thing that got renumbered
< 1553621216 445427 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not 100% convinced those are bad ideas; at least, most of the examples that people have brought up as to why they're bad, I disagree with, however they may be bad for other reasons
< 1553621248 324228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd prefer a comprehensive reform to copyright law rather than just enforcing it
< 1553621252 424066 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: the renumbering was a normal part of the process.
< 1553621266 151912 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: sure
< 1553621307 197353 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: the renumbering is so they can publish the text of the law without the content filters kicking them off because it mentions "article 13"
< 1553621320 852274 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what content filters?
< 1553621357 689622 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the ones that people say article 13 requires in the sense that it makes content hosters more responsible for the content of third-party materials that they host
< 1553621389 548496 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which hosters can only enforce by automatic real-time content filters to accept or reject third-party content
< 1553621424 445402 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't like article 13 mainly because I expect that youtubers will regularly run into their own videos being blocked by an automatic filter, without any reasonable course of remedy... those videos cost time and effort, and often money, to produce, so it will discourage that particular way of producing content. It may not actually happen but I believe that's a true risk.
< 1553621440 430237 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: this is already the case on YouTube nowadays
< 1553621449 643887 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has an automatic filter, and it does cause problems
< 1553621461 668751 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't think it's relevant for youtube, because youtube is the site that already wants automated content filters, and would do it anyway regardless of that law
< 1553621477 753840 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes and that will become worse. So this is another step in the wrong direction.
< 1553621478 598712 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more relevant for other sites
< 1553621521 862121 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yeah, other sites will be forced to implement filters at the "industry standard" which will be defined by the likes of Google and Facebook. Yay.
< 1553621541 636012 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :((((
< 1553621549 431561 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, one of the main problems with YouTube's filters at the moment is people falsely claiming to have copyright on things and fooling the input to the filter
< 1553621562 163411 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope it will turn someday
< 1553621562 634957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that the people making the false claims end up getting all the ad revenue
< 1553621586 810830 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a reform made that sort of claim illegal, then it would improve the current situation for youtube-like sites
< 1553621608 47850 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later
< 1553621651 517265 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw someone interested in that Metamath-like thing?)
< 1553621653 314056 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, but what happens to sites that aren't as large as youtube, but also aren't too tiny, and have third-party content?
< 1553621672 295791 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553621699 838989 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, isn't that sort of claim already illegal?
< 1553621717 822790 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main beneficiants of the directive will be publishers and right holder's organization; to some extend Google and Facebook... creators will largely lose out slightly (more if the optional Article 16 (previously 12) is implemented), and creators who currently rely on youtube and other content sharing platforms to distribute their material.
< 1553621719 164842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: no, it would be if it were a DMCA claim, but YouTube's filters allow non-DMCA claim
< 1553621727 750977 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even then, DMCA claims have huge loopholes in them
< 1553621758 475512 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm
< 1553621786 45979 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :We'll see in a couple of years how bad it'll actually be.
< 1553621871 894851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from my point of view, there surely has to be a better situation then a) ridiculously strict copyright rules existing and b) those same rules rarely being enforced
< 1553621881 985135 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that leaves law-abiding people at a major disadvantage
< 1553621883 299438 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :What really irks me is that instead of a healthy debate we got stuck on the level of name-calling... both sides accusing the other of having no clue (which, to some extent, is true, because this is a clash of different cultures.)
< 1553621906 455829 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the EU's sugested fix probably isn't a very good one, but the situation needs fixing, so I'm at least happy that it's being discussed
< 1553621909 350848 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for finding a small set of characters that induce a TC subset of a language, that's somewhat similar to finding the smallest set of controller buttons with which you can complete a video game, as in, super mario speedwalks and the like
< 1553621914 206500 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the right word actually... "beneficiaries"?
< 1553621945 559998 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I agree... and in fact it was quite funny how the #Yes2Copyright hashtag was adopted by both sides of this campaign.
< 1553621961 17306 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it seems the latter, yes
< 1553621971 722033 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(beneficiaries)
< 1553621981 559340 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's not really a good enough argument for any particular new law though
< 1553622048 360115 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :laws seem to look as a sort of code, usually of very bad maintainability, suspicious correctness and the like
< 1553622060 540120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: well, any potential change in the law, other than outright removing copyright (which seems very unlikely to help), will have to come with better enforcement
< 1553622074 427160 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this may be a first step that leads to wider reform
< 1553622144 633685 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if “better code is less code”, yeah, one shouldn’t make new laws on every occasion, even if there’s some demand for a code solving/enabling a particular thing (because rarely there are no demand)
< 1553622275 907961 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I still don't think that really addresses the debate. sure something has to be done, but nobody really said that nothing should be done, they just had complaints about the specific law
< 1553622358 989378 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: most of the attacks I've seen have been against the basic idea of the articles in question; it is entirely possible that the idea is good but the details are bad
< 1553622396 494127 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But look at how people dealt with the advent of photocopiers, floppies, recordable CDs, big USB devices... AFAIK there's no enforcement there. In Germany, instead a part of the sales price goes to right holders' organizations. It's not ideal (in particular those organizations hold quite a lot of power as a result) but it's *very* unintrusive. Content sharing platforms are a different...
< 1553622402 505437 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :...beast, of course, but some trade-off between enforcement and a collective pool of money (with various options for sources... consumer end (ISPs) or content sharing provider end...) should be possible.
< 1553622444 692483 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: sending part of a sales price to right holders' organizations should imply that copying data owned by those right holders is not copyright infringement
< 1553622462 884671 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, then it makes sense
< 1553622483 223408 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I'd like to see data. How much of the content on Youtube is there illegally? I would like to know that from both sides... uploads and views.
< 1553622531 18629 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: that would be hard to tell, because the content that is known to be illegal is taken down so wouldn't be in the statistics, and the ones that aren't known to be illegal are hard to count
< 1553622622 315989 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I can also imagine tweaks to Article 17 (13) that would make it much nicer to youtubers: rather than blocking an upload directly, what if the platform has the option to tell the user why it would be blocked, and let them override that decision, in which case liability reverts back to the user? This probably requires that the user be properly identified, but anyone who monetizes their channel...
< 1553622625 590294 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dolwoxphxypnrioj QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1553622628 552437 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :...probably has shared their address with the provider anyway.
< 1553622715 575550 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The directive has provisions for disputing infringement claims; it even mandates that a human be involved in that process. I don't see how platforms can implement this in an affordable way so I expect those processes to be very slow and convoluted.)
< 1553622758 396686 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So the point of my idea above is that it can easily be fully automated.)
< 1553623165 20094 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: "what proportion of YouTube" is a hard question, because there are probably huge numbers of videos that are hardly ever viewed
< 1553623173 503369 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people using it as a backup for family photos, or whatever
< 1553623199 301098 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, that's why I want the statistics for views as well
< 1553623205 188490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe asking about the proportion of YouTube /views/ is more interesting, in which case I expect the vast majority to be of copyrighted content, but often with the implicit permission of the content's owner
< 1553623229 218571 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(those are probably the more relevant ones anyway, but both uploads and views are interesting)
< 1553623237 839956 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of record labels post their music officially
< 1553623245 89757 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even explicit-but-global permission (e.g. many computer games give permission to upload videos of the game on YouTube)
< 1553623249 67296 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they get royalties
< 1553623267 481928 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, views are the more relevant, because the uploads just scale with how quickly youtube recognizes and removes the illegal content, at which point the uploader reuploads a modified version of it
< 1553623276 701202 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yes. and it's also good advertisement, especially for lesser known artists.
< 1553623290 807115 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah
< 1553623298 599030 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've found quite a bit of music there that I listen to all the time now
< 1553623345 841006 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a tangential note, this is some amazing guitar work https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISS2SrHxKI4
< 1553623359 714943 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't have thought it possible to do an acoustic guitar cover of a drum&bass song, but not only is it possible it's amazing
< 1553623399 901134 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION listens again
> 1553624403 145930 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Category theory14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60662&oldid=46854 5* 03Koyodyne 5* (+25) 10Fixed some information about identity morphisms
> 1553624441 407480 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Category theory14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60663&oldid=60662 5* 03Koyodyne 5* (+0) 10replaced a typo
> 1553624526 645668 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Category theory14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60664&oldid=60663 5* 03Koyodyne 5* (+2) 10replaced auspicious "set" with "class"
< 1553624623 147019 :ZM!4db798bb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.183.152.187 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1553627534 946758 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
> 1553631020 245454 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Category theory14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60665&oldid=60664 5* 03Koyodyne 5* (+534) 10Added a section on higher categories
> 1553631124 841848 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Category theory14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60666&oldid=60665 5* 03Koyodyne 5* (+20) 10Added a section on higher categories
> 1553632113 821982 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Category theory14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60667&oldid=60666 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+23) 10Add category so this is linked from somewhere
< 1553632301 968498 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553632372 480696 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553632423 693356 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh this is actually very nice. If I’d known that article needs some attention…
< 1553632463 791129 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone be prepared, this weekend we'll have the timezone offset change in most of Europe, then on Monday we'll have SIGBOVIK
< 1553632477 150106 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(should I add about semicategories, the ones without identity morphisms?)
< 1553632574 588225 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, a link to nLab should be really sufficient
< 1553633184 107450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: categories are general enough as it is, why would you need to make them more general? :-D
< 1553633213 393824 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'm not convinced category theory is an esolang; it's fairly eso but not very lang
< 1553633365 960778 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it’s a bit hard to use them for me because of that. Though there are so-called internal languages, but e. g. for arbitrary category there isn’t really anything interesting to have in that language, and I even don’t know if it’s a thing
< 1553633645 733903 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ^ and also about the first I’d say “because of Haskell”, but there seemed to be a more specific answer I’ve forgot
< 1553633670 229694 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Haskell is in no relation to that AFAIR
< 1553633686 573831 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Haskell is fairly close to category theory as a programming language
< 1553633688 246094 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it’s a universal argument, I should admit
< 1553633693 295717 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not at all the same thing, but the same ideas get used in both
< 1553633693 831968 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1553633700 340619 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :agree
< 1553633808 779182 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.211.107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only I’d get more of Edward Kmett’s packages... hm no forget it
< 1553637084 681542 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't the point of category that the same ideas get used in /everything/
< 1553637589 647722 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it lets you translate theorems from one context to another
< 1553637647 958684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my PhD used a categorical result to prove that the compiler I'd defined from the syntax of a language to its semantics was consistent, in the sense that sometimes it would match the same program in multiple different ways, but it'd produce the same result in each case
< 1553637660 168511 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is known as a "coherence" result, in category theory)
< 1553637677 166265 :fractal!~fractal@unaffiliated/scounder QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1553638285 547442 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!card-by-name Soulcatchers' Aerie
< 1553638299 489720 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Soulcatchers' Aerie
< 1553638300 929250 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soulcatchers' Aerie \ 1W \ Enchantment \ Whenever a Bird is put into your graveyard from the battlefield, put a feather counter on Soulcatchers' Aerie. \ Bird creatures get +1/+1 for each feather counter on Soulcatchers' Aerie. \ JUD-U
< 1553638590 223257 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ^ could that work instead of Noxious Ghoul in an M:tG implementation of Waterfall Model?
< 1553638605 168995 :fractal!~fractal@unaffiliated/scounder JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553638630 421149 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: you need a -/- effect somewhere; Noxious Ghoul is only used as an easily triggerable -/- effect in the The Waterfall Model impl
< 1553638635 235155 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Noxious Ghoul
< 1553638636 110139 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Noxious Ghoul \ 3BB \ Creature -- Zombie \ 3/3 \ Whenever Noxious Ghoul or another Zombie enters the battlefield, all non-Zombie creatures get -1/-1 until end of turn. \ LGN-U, HOP-U
< 1553638648 347723 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could use a damage effect instead
< 1553638668 66206 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, what's that effect which pings everything when a creature ETBs called?
< 1553638672 4651 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name pandemonium
< 1553638672 766803 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pandemonium \ 3R \ Enchantment \ Whenever a creature enters the battlefield, that creature's controller may have it deal damage equal to its power to any target of their choice. \ EX-R, TSP-S
< 1553638685 231073 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, would need to be global, so not that
< 1553638772 68560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forerunner of the Empire almost works but it's a "may" ability
< 1553638779 10643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name forerunner of the empire
< 1553638779 934168 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forerunner of the Empire \ 3R \ Creature -- Human Soldier \ 1/3 \ When Forerunner of the Empire enters the battlefield, you may search your library for a Dinosaur card, reveal it, then shuffle your library and put that card on top of it. \ Whenever a Dinosaur enters the battlefield under your control, you may have Forerunner of the Empire deal 1 damage to each creature. \ RIX-U
< 1553638791 872442 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can use a protection-from-color effect to make it selective)
< 1553638797 662689 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a reason you wanted to replace noxious ghoul, anyway?
< 1553638863 762150 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no reason really. I was looking for cards for a different construction, but found this one and got curious
< 1553638905 275444 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :soulcatcher's aerie seems like the sort of building block that might be helpful for a TCness construction, but it doesn't fit into the TWM construction directly
< 1553638955 988547 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could almost use it to replace Hungry Lynx but the two creature types are the same
< 1553638991 945564 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, because it affects newly created tokens proactively, it'd do weird things to the language semantics, it might still be TC but it wouldn't be TWM)
< 1553639018 812173 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering on a construction where you have just one creature for each Waterfall counter; you somehow decrease the toughness of each creature by a constant each turn, I don't know how to do that; the opponent has a Fleet-Footed Monk with Lure to deal damage to the creature with 1 toughness each turn;
< 1553639032 651763 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and somehow you trigger off blocking or damage, but I also don't see how to do that
< 1553639081 314459 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the advantage would be that since your creatures never die or get born, they can be complicated enchanted creatures
< 1553639096 138092 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can have rules text on them, or on enchantments on them
< 1553639113 621464 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which allows a larger selection of cards, but I don't find the right card needed here
< 1553639124 840758 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the existing construction has one creature per counter, though
< 1553639145 9587 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses a lot of other creatures for triggered abilities but the fact that they're creatures is irrelevant, it'd work almost as well with them as enchantments
< 1553639156 988611 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not quite as well because the existing setup has no way to wish for enchantments, so they'd have to be maindecked)
< 1553639159 734816 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but don't those creatures die and get recreated as tokens?
< 1553639167 944048 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, what I'd like here is that those creatures never die
< 1553639171 679614 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see
< 1553639173 399145 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead they linger at toughness 1 or 3
< 1553639178 845596 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd want to use tokens anyway because of deck size limits
< 1553639188 13693 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :above that, and get triggered when they are lowered to toughness 1 or toughness 3
< 1553639216 979505 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :triggering on a specific toughness is hard
< 1553639218 35146 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, they could be token copies, but you copy and enchant them once at the start
< 1553639236 883358 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's what the Fleet-Footed Monk is for, and there's another card that works for toughness 3
< 1553639262 352054 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name fleet-footed monk
< 1553639263 209237 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fleet-Footed Monk \ 1W \ Creature -- Human Monk \ 1/1 \ Fleet-Footed Monk can't be blocked by creatures with power 2 or greater. \ P1-C
< 1553639271 874817 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that checks power
< 1553639277 451981 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Goldmeadow Dodger
< 1553639278 249673 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goldmeadow Dodger \ W \ Creature -- Kithkin Rogue \ 1/1 \ Goldmeadow Dodger can't be blocked by creatures with power 4 or greater. \ LRW-C
< 1553639299 688730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are lots of creatures that trigger on dealing combat damage
< 1553639316 324615 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but we're using -1/-1 or +1/+1 effects anyway, either counters or something crazy like that Soulcatcher's Aerie, because it has to survive turn changes
< 1553639324 217940 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we could trigger on that, rather than on /not/ dealing combat damage
< 1553639341 131379 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, that could work. is there an enchantment that gives a creature protection versus a creature type?
< 1553639357 373770 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have to give the opponent's Goldmeadow Dodger protection against everything but the one creature type
< 1553639363 773772 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have one Dodger per counter
< 1553639397 329619 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be easier with colors, but there's only 5 and that's not known to be enough with Waterfall
< 1553639443 281139 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the tunable protection cards I can see are color-based, not creature-type-based; runed halo is an exception, triggering on name, but it enchants players, not creatures
< 1553639452 900152 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also true-name nemesis but it's hard to count that
< 1553639501 142616 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, there may be specific creature type protections, rather than tunable, that we can hack
< 1553639507 669693 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't need tunable, they can be Evolvable
< 1553639523 601650 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I'm stupid [3~
< 1553639528 658489 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Coward thing
< 1553639542 275218 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Boldwyr Imitator
< 1553639543 165445 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1553639552 735037 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Boldwyr I
< 1553639553 510948 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boldwyr Intimidator \ 5RR \ Creature -- Giant Warrior \ 5/5 \ Cowards can't block Warriors. \ {R}: Target creature becomes a Coward until end of turn. \ {2}{R}: Target creature becomes a Warrior until end of turn. \ FUT-U, MOR-U, CNS-U, DDS-U
< 1553639568 579440 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that, and a large amount of Evolution
< 1553639571 352307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to say, boldwyr intimidator has a different effect, but does it work for what you're looking for?
< 1553639584 20987 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that should work
< 1553639588 556158 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's still at least two problems
< 1553639614 299216 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind-of like the way my existing setup works at split-second speed; something that involves combat can't
< 1553639619 373689 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :one is what exactly to trigger from it attacking
< 1553639629 159957 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, that certainly makes it easier
< 1553639660 708811 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I know the other one. the other problem is how to damage the creatures every turn, but that's easy. there's a blue aura for it
< 1553639673 544018 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Unstable Mutation
< 1553639674 387009 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unstable Mutation \ U \ Enchantment -- Aura \ Enchant creature \ Enchanted creature gets +3/+3. \ At the beginning of the upkeep of enchanted creature's controller, put a -1/-1 counter on that creature. \ AN-C, RV-C, 4E-C, 5E-C, TSP-S
< 1553639686 545094 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so now what to trigger from the Dodgers dealing damage?
< 1553639694 297087 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name crackling perimeter
< 1553639695 151996 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crackling Perimeter \ 1R \ Enchantment \ Tap an untapped Gate you control: Crackling Perimeter deals 1 damage to each opponent. \ GTC-U
< 1553639700 443437 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or combat damage
< 1553639703 43944 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't remember the trigger on that one
< 1553639706 864400 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I thought it hit creatures
< 1553639716 804726 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's a card that hits every creature once-per-turn, but I guess copied auras could also work?
< 1553639779 36417 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I expect most of those would deal damage, not -1/-1, although you could perhaps animate something and give it infest
< 1553639782 39111 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :infect
< 1553639784 515291 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in...
< 1553639786 940085 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, which one is it?
< 1553639796 555843 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :infect
< 1553639808 444017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wither also works
< 1553639810 511088 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infest is an instant
< 1553639838 92971 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, I'm used to toughness being the only relevant stat, but your construction triggers on power
< 1553639859 520498 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they will probably go hand in hand
< 1553639913 569511 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was also wondering if we can somehow make our creatures actually die from dropped toughness, but respawn
< 1553639948 902307 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't seem easy to make that scale
< 1553639958 704608 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's basically what the existing construction does
< 1553640009 723101 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but it recreates a token
< 1553640019 59084 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas I wanted to reanimate the same creature
< 1553640022 827825 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't work
< 1553640026 179089 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bad idea
< 1553640039 604494 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't work with many creatures, it needs actual cards, and possibly even then it won't work
< 1553640098 21131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :objects lose their identity when changing zones, that's one of the most fundamental rules of magic
< 1553640109 975179 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's one creature which keeps counters when changing zones, I think, but it's definitely a special case
< 1553640116 432061 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name skullbriar
< 1553640117 281371 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Skullbriar, the Walking Grave \ BG \ Legendary Creature -- Zombie Elemental \ 1/1 \ Haste \ Whenever Skullbriar, the Walking Grave deals combat damage to a player, put a +1/+1 counter on it. \ Counters remain on Skullbriar as it moves to any zone other than a player's hand or library. \ CMD-R
< 1553640132 484336 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow, I didn't expect to successfully remember which one it was first try
< 1553640156 81559 :LKoen_!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00b15f6d55912a31f5.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553640185 73014 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but there are ways to make a card respawn
< 1553640219 771617 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't have to keep their identity if they're printed with the right creature type and the opponent has all the Evolved stuff
< 1553640235 169533 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you still need as many creature cards in your deck as there are Waterfall counters, which isn't too good
< 1553640243 627665 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, doesn't work well
< 1553640266 812482 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's not keeping its identity, why do you care about whether it's a token respawning or a token being created? is the difference even observable?
< 1553640279 484189 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not
< 1553640287 730051 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, I shouldn't care about it
< 1553640296 191652 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1553640303 800620 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with tokens is that you can't bring them back from the gy
< 1553640306 604643 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why I need cards
< 1553640310 990127 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I respawn from the gy 
< 1553640340 98346 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00bc52c3c502252404.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1553640352 80024 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, this doesn't work well
< 1553640415 525261 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :another thing I was wondering about is 
< 1553640419 593558 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Ensnaring Bridge
< 1553640420 639537 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ensnaring Bridge \ 3 \ Artifact \ Creatures with power greater than the number of cards in your hand can't attack. \ ST-R, 7E-R, 8ED-R, MPS_KLD-S, A25-M
< 1553640426 396711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name gift of immortality
< 1553640427 239498 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gift of Immortality \ 2W \ Enchantment -- Aura \ Enchant creature \ When enchanted creature dies, return that card to the battlefield under its owner's control. Return Gift of Immortality to the battlefield attached to that creature at the beginning of the next end step. \ THS-R
< 1553640430 36252 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus a luring creature by the opponent
< 1553640442 721759 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that it's your creature that attacks, but only if it has low toughness
< 1553640444 165266 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think Gift of Immortality works on tokens? but it probably works for anything else you might be doing with this
< 1553640446 826101 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the opponent has the Bridge
< 1553640471 952320 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't think that works. once the token goes to the gy, it can't move to a new zone from there
< 1553640519 760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, doesn't work on tokens, but would work on creature cards
< 1553640524 853359 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we'd need something like Edgar Markov, but that has an attack trigger that puts a +1/+1 counter on each creature of some _other_ type than itself
< 1553640541 582882 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently the playtest version just said "enchanted creature can't die", but it got altered for rules and balance reasons
< 1553640630 132043 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Rage Forger
< 1553640631 10392 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rage Forger \ 2R \ Creature -- Elemental Shaman \ 2/2 \ When Rage Forger enters the battlefield, put a +1/+1 counter on each other Shaman creature you control. \ Whenever a creature you control with a +1/+1 counter on it attacks, you may have that creature deal 1 damage to target player or planeswalker. \ MOR-U
< 1553640639 831626 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, not that either
< 1553640770 931434 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, my ideas don't seem to work
< 1553640915 93997 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the game designers aren't stupid, they don't make too many cards that form easy infinite loops
< 1553640979 259801 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially not mandatory ones
< 1553641082 864014 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, I do have a playset of Faceless Butchers in my box of blacks
< 1553641161 234221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :LSV (a famous magic player) once pulled off the oblivion ring infinite loop on MTGO on stream, against a real opponent, on a spur-of-the-moment decision to set it up
< 1553641171 860772 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because he was curious as to what would happen (the deck wasn't built around setting it up)
< 1553641217 946913 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see
< 1553641315 313271 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MTGO didn't handle it well, it replayed the entire game to try to figure out what had gone wrong, and then restarted it when it couldn't figure it out
< 1553641377 54900 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :did it call a judge then?
< 1553641382 897883 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did the players call one?
< 1553641448 288533 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MTGO doesn't have judges
< 1553641455 472328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it breaks you can apply for a refund, but that's abotu it
< 1553641470 601494 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even for tournaments with rewards?
< 1553641584 625932 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00080df769e349b8e1.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1553641602 204523 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope; quite a few people are upset about this
< 1553641609 551930 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, also, is it possible to golf this to one IRC line?
< 1553641610 776653 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-213.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1553641639 517769 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if they reach the late stages of tournament and lose out to an MTGO malfunction, getting the entry fee refunded isn't really what they were looking for < 1553641672 933083 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how repeated are the colors? I was wondering if a