←2019-04-06 2019-04-07 2019-04-08→ ↑2019 ↑all
00:00:06 <kmc> everybody died. RIP
00:00:36 * oerjan doesn't feel more dead than previously
00:01:17 <oerjan> although i cannot prove i've not long been a hallucinating ghost
00:01:24 <kmc> same af
00:06:20 <int-e> hmm, I wonder where I found this: "Hey, there! Are you hibernating or are you dead?" / "I'm not hibernating, I guess I must be dead. Funny,I don't remember being dead when I woke up this morning." / "Maybe it happened while you weren't looking." / "What if it happened a long time ago? What if I died, and all this time I've been living a lie?"
00:28:43 <oerjan> not anywhere google can see it, apparently.
00:35:02 <oerjan> `` doag | grep hibern
00:35:06 <HackEso> 10880:2017-05-10 <wob_jonäs> slashlearn b_jonas can\'t spell//b_jonas can\'t spell these words: weird, hygiene, etymology, myopia, hibernate, carbohydrate, appearance, maintenance, appropriate, privilege, obsolete, heard, homogeneous, jealous; and confuses these sets of words: drought, draught/draft; couch, coach; depreciate, deprecate; dilate, dilute; contiguous, continuous; d \ 10878:2017-05-10 <wob_jonäs> learn b_jonas can\'t spell/b_jonas can\'t s
00:35:48 <oerjan> `1 doag | grep -v 'jonas can' | grep hibern
00:35:51 <HackEso> 1/1:5979:2015-09-13 <tsweẗt> le/rn sth/"sth" is short for "something that hibernates".
00:36:03 <oerjan> ok, so not in HackEso either.
00:36:23 <int-e> oerjan: nah the quote is too old for that. I'd suspect the old esolang list, except the archives say no.
00:36:57 <oerjan> hm, what about old usenet?
00:37:30 <int-e> Quite possible... but didn't google use to index that?
00:41:14 <esowiki> [[Talk:Bitter]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60914&oldid=54860 * DMC * (+2)
00:42:38 <oerjan> groups.google.com seems to have old usenet posts
00:42:54 * oerjan searched for "har du kramat din varg"
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03:44:45 <oerjan> `? rot13
03:44:46 <HackEso> rot13? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
03:44:52 <oerjan> `wisdom rot
03:44:53 <HackEso> arothmorphise//arothmorphise ... antormo... antrohm... ant... oh bugger. This should go in the `misspellings of antrhrop... atnhro...' entry.
03:45:23 <oerjan> `wisdom 13
03:45:23 <HackEso> 1337//1337 15 50 905
03:45:26 <oerjan> `wisdom 13
03:45:27 <HackEso> 1337//1337 15 50 905
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14:04:27 <b_jonas> my hon. and learned friend fungot, what is the best starting pokemon?
14:04:27 <fungot> b_jonas: is the hon. and learned friend the member for sheffield, fnord more people are in work, and the world, our country might be resolved, the better the debate about prisons, that is ridiculous, and the very many, fewer people are in relative economic terms, we have been very much that finances the houthi. labour is clear that
14:04:56 <b_jonas> hmm wait, apparently they're called "starter" instead of "starting
14:05:00 <b_jonas> my hon. and learned friend fungot, what is the best starter pokemon?
14:05:00 <fungot> b_jonas: a clear and early commitment to a backstop, and the home secretary, to go with the success, or seeking to transfer the eu ones. on trade, and the question of the hon. member, yet that is the only data that includes
14:06:36 <b_jonas> `? pokemon
14:06:37 <HackEso> A pokemon is a monster that you keep in your pocket. Taneb invented them.
14:12:20 <arseniiv> `? Janko Gorenc
14:12:21 <HackEso> Janko Gorenc? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
14:14:49 <b_jonas> `? lhurgoyf
14:14:50 <HackEso> lhurgoyf? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
14:18:59 <FireFly> ^style
14:18:59 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp ukparl* youtube
14:19:38 <FireFly> ^style ukparl
14:19:38 <fungot> Selected style: ukparl (UK Parliament debates from brexit referendum to late 2018)
14:19:57 <FireFly> ah okay, so it's been updated with more recent debates(?)
14:20:36 <FireFly> or hmm, maybe the ukparl style isn't all that old, I could've sworn it was older but maybe I was thinking of europarl
14:21:27 <FireFly> fungot: so how do you feel about the deadline next week?
14:21:27 <fungot> FireFly: not a question time goes on, the more good young journalists, to non-governmental organisations,
14:21:34 <int-e> fungot: high treason!
14:21:35 <fungot> int-e: with the bill we have before us a bill to increase the number of fnord, herbal medicines directive to be modernised, more productive, and the secretary of the state, the state, leaving the secretary of state i have faced the house,
14:21:46 <FireFly> increase the number of fnord!
14:31:27 <b_jonas> my hon. and learned friend is practicing his skill to answer something other than the question. very good. my hon. and learned friend will need that, like any other politician that interacts with reporters.
14:32:06 <fizzie> `` words --pokemon 20 # maybe one of these
14:32:08 <HackEso> simisage hoos smear wig swinub rock lil forret bouff sudow magby dragong gas wartrio slow rat aland slowkin golduck pyuku
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14:34:09 <b_jonas> those are a bit short. what was the switch for words to influence the length of the words?
14:34:22 <b_jonas> ``` words --pokemon -l 20 10
14:34:23 <HackEso> valid datasets: --eng-1M --eng-all --eng-fiction --eng-gb --eng-us --french --german --hebrew --russian --spanish --irish --german-medical --bulgarian --catalan --swedish --brazilian --canadian-english-insane --manx --italian --ogerman --portuguese --polish --gaelic --finnish --norwegian --esolangs --opcode --pokemon \ default: --eng-1M
14:35:02 <b_jonas> ``` words --pokemon -0 14 10
14:35:04 <HackEso> Unknown option: 0
14:35:07 <b_jonas> ``` words --pokemon -o 14 10
14:35:08 <HackEso> yamaurangroudowoobaltal zebstricketotodilyphlos crawlery spheatmonleef fariados tauroruntacoonguss doduosionnelby shupperior ribomalamperioluremolga beakie
14:35:12 <b_jonas> ``` words --pokemon -o 10 10
14:35:13 <HackEso> gothornadusken megantleon nihileplup shuckletterbug explous scashiftry tankelduckletchirl inklantinionee houndoof beautiflygonix
14:35:24 <b_jonas> now those look better
14:35:37 <b_jonas> Megantleon, Explou, Houndoof
14:35:41 <b_jonas> ok, wee need something in between
14:35:46 <b_jonas> ``` words --pokemon -o 6 10
14:35:47 <HackEso> trossom wishados alonferno ivysaurotodile rior trumakuhitarapin silvanha kraixen giratty rapionnelby
14:36:08 <b_jonas> giratty!
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15:12:58 <Taneb> <HackEso> A pokemon is a monster that you keep in your pocket. Taneb invented them. <--- I've been getting back into Pokemon recently, as it happens
15:13:22 <b_jonas> Taneb: video game or card game?
15:13:47 <Taneb> b_jonas: video game, I've been playing Silver which is on the 3DS Virtual Console store
15:13:59 <Taneb> Never played much of the card game
15:16:32 <b_jonas> I see
15:16:43 <b_jonas> `random-pokemon
15:16:44 <HackEso> ​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: random-pokemon: not found
15:17:14 <b_jonas> `pokedex
15:17:15 <HackEso> ​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pokedex: not found
15:18:29 <b_jonas> `pokemon
15:18:30 <HackEso> ​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pokemon: not found
15:18:49 <b_jonas> ``` echo bin/*pok*
15:18:50 <HackEso> bin/*pok*
15:21:17 <fizzie> FWIW, the default length distribution should be the right one, it was trained from the real list.
15:21:39 <Taneb> ivysaurotodile was the Pokemon I started with!
15:21:42 <fizzie> `words --pokemon --esolangs 10
15:21:43 <HackEso> pie 2d-rever dewott brawlet sceptilectpar entropolis muncie dian l00p comeheadact
15:27:19 <b_jonas> fizzie: sure
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15:59:02 <fizzie> `words --pokemon --finnish 10
15:59:03 <HackEso> pidennekiristeesteel kyläluksentäisi sigitoksesi petune naan logise celsken vertar tepitä slow
16:02:47 <b_jonas> hmm, so is "petune" supposed to be finnish or a pokemon?
16:07:44 <fizzie> It's supposed to be a Finnish Pokémon.
16:07:54 <fizzie> I don't think that worked so well though.
16:08:17 <fizzie> When you use more than one dataset, it interpolates between the models with equal weights.
17:18:28 <b_jonas> might be
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18:36:57 <arseniiv> `words --polish
18:36:57 <HackEso> rozpadniczne
18:37:04 <arseniiv> `words --polish 10
18:37:05 <HackEso> niew nani nielodostu nieciśleliście nającymi wuliński postopopiął radzanku prorozhardalizowa uwieliby
18:37:33 <arseniiv> mm
18:38:21 <arseniiv> `words --bulgarian 10
18:38:22 <HackEso> ​благащваща застребеше пикрелиен полеба противявай латапя петлоушна свиднахането пилия опняванавиха
18:38:59 <arseniiv> not enough Ъs, I’d say
18:52:51 <b_jonas> `words --dutch 14
18:52:51 <HackEso> Unknown option: dutch
18:59:37 <b_jonas> `words --norwegian 41
18:59:38 <HackEso> tær ekkens trapphol tvinnres snaktkjæres undendehovervirkes halvine eiereie seggssvogn forbunderes lønnemaksjona vannhyllett slåske gauksliserike nevangsmingene kastidsmobjell skjøpskrysstavfisk diagningselse busikottekt kryssistrømming heroperienteretning forbitorskogbrokkbegrav urkorsvars vann camporvalutning
19:00:31 <b_jonas> "vann" is real, isn't it?
19:11:45 <FireFly> I believe so, should be 'water'
19:12:02 <FireFly> 'forbunderes' also looks like plausibly real norwegian
19:12:29 <FireFly> `words --swedish 41
19:12:30 <HackEso> utständare anbersäkrat förste boxarna styckstade lovs presplandlande konciliserar närvsystades skildarwis årtens nyansöv ämbedåra fåta strateriser artogran fortroder språker guldkrämera definatsen stavinnlyst signakt sammanna direrna kapitetening
19:13:41 <b_jonas> förste is real
19:14:37 <FireFly> also 'boxarna'
19:14:50 <FireFly> a couple others are very close to real I think
19:15:40 <b_jonas> `words --hungarian 39
19:15:41 <HackEso> Unknown option: hungarian
19:15:51 <b_jonas> `words --welsh 39
19:15:52 <HackEso> Unknown option: welsh
19:16:09 <FireFly> `words --help
19:16:10 <HackEso> Usage: words [-dhNo] [DATASETS...] [NUMBER_OF_WORDS] \ \ options: \ -l, --list list valid datasets \ -d, --debug debugging output \ -N, --dont-normalize don't normalize frequencies when combining \ multiple Markov models; this has the effect \ of making larger datasets more influential \ -o, --target-offset change the target length offset used in the \
19:16:10 <fizzie> `words --finnish 20
19:16:11 <HackEso> liittämäävällä pohtaan muhisessaan osajakseen suunneistanne luomimmilta kastasi kuoputomistä intumiksimpänä kanne paen ulkaviltä kivat lujoutamallennus mahtaan päätäisesi ihmillemme hylkeviimmalla popolustetämille puhallampasi
19:16:15 <FireFly> `words -l
19:16:15 <HackEso> valid datasets: --eng-1M --eng-all --eng-fiction --eng-gb --eng-us --french --german --hebrew --russian --spanish --irish --german-medical --bulgarian --catalan --swedish --brazilian --canadian-english-insane --manx --italian --ogerman --portuguese --polish --gaelic --finnish --norwegian --esolangs --opcode --pokemon \ default: --eng-1M
19:16:45 * FireFly . o O ( --welsh would just be an alias for --mlp | rot13 anyway )
19:16:57 <b_jonas> kanne is real
19:17:03 <fizzie> So is "kivat".
19:17:14 <FireFly> all of those look like plausible finnish to me :P
19:17:24 <b_jonas> it's easier for him to make real short words than long ones of course
19:17:37 <b_jonas> `words --gaelic 39
19:17:38 <HackEso> còrr foid smeudag aorach fear mhaobh thàirde bhoc taisteach firean cùmhlair bùraidh foran fiùr choin phoilt mhadh geach clan fianair freag tàn sùbhlaid adh gaid
19:17:42 <FireFly> `words --manx 40
19:17:43 <HackEso> fograney greeit troo scuttaghtyr neuheayll meadagh broaie whee keragh slagh scalmynyn farrym nish hee oblagh vrat-chloin ferrey cragh henney aah kiadsyn ben-cag cornane toyrtooayl smuggys
19:17:48 <fizzie> And "mahtaan" could be colloquial first person present of v. mahtailla.
19:17:59 <fizzie> (Though really it's "mahtailen".)
19:19:14 <b_jonas> "fear" is real
19:20:35 <fizzie> And you could probably use "kastasi" when talking about some CCG or something where you cast spells, as a Finglish term.
19:20:36 <b_jonas> so is "gain"
19:20:44 <b_jonas> um
19:20:49 <b_jonas> I mean "gaid"
19:21:35 <fizzie> One big problem with the Finnish model is that 3 letters of context is just not enough to maintain vowel harmony.
19:21:40 <kmc> hello all
19:21:44 <kmc> i'm feeling very esoteric today
19:22:46 <FireFly> hihi kmc
19:23:18 <kmc> <3
19:23:21 <b_jonas> hi kmc
19:23:29 * kmc hugs everyone who would like a hug
19:23:36 <kmc> feeling very huggable too
19:23:53 <kmc> life's really good today and I want to share some of the love with all of you
19:24:47 <b_jonas> kmc: did you get a job?
19:24:50 <kmc> no
19:25:01 <kmc> but I took LSD
19:25:10 <b_jonas> ah, I thought that was what this was all about
19:25:15 <kmc> lol
19:25:20 <kmc> lmao
19:25:25 <fizzie> `sled bin/words//39s|@opt|sort &|
19:25:26 <HackEso> bin/words//#!/usr/bin/perl \ use strict; use warnings; \ use v5.10; \ use open qw( :encoding(UTF-8) :std); \ use File::Basename 'dirname'; \ use Storable 'retrieve'; \ use List::Util qw(sum min); \ use Getopt::Long qw(:config gnu_getopt); \ BEGIN { \ eval { \ require Math::Random::MT::Perl; Math::Random::MT::Perl->import('rand'); \ }; \ #warn "Optional module Math::Random::MT::Perl not found.\n" if $@; \ } \ \ #constants \ my @options = q
19:25:53 <kmc> what's all this?
19:25:59 <kmc> I don't know all the HackEso-magic
19:26:01 <kmc> seems v. esoteric
19:26:06 <b_jonas> we're using words to generate random words
19:26:17 <kmc> did I mention the first time I ever took psychedelics, I sat on a computer and it opened ghci for me
19:26:31 <kmc> and this was definitely a sign
19:26:48 <kmc> inexorably linking two things that would come to be very meaningful for me
19:27:01 <fizzie> kmc: `sled foo//bar is just "sed -i -e bar foo", it's just a convenience thing to avoid the issue where you do "sed -ie" and it makes a backup copy of the file "foo" named "fooe".
19:27:14 <fizzie> kmc: ...plus it prints the new contents, which is handy for files that fit in one line of IRC.
19:27:14 <b_jonas> what two things? ghc and computers?
19:27:43 <kmc> wait what does sed -e do
19:27:51 <b_jonas> sort? hmm
19:27:58 <b_jonas> `words --german 39
19:27:59 <HackEso> bürgestimmaßgewinzell kurten gängesche abgressunftie zug feltlos soptiviuz zustersirme smen verte behe selbachtensklavi bung sche ernsens wattunk polycellegspol vors uebergrungshoffen sonndeae wortausge gefähris ung herungsoproten seilbio
19:28:21 <b_jonas> those don't look particularly real.
19:28:41 <b_jonas> well, maybe "kurten" does
19:28:50 <b_jonas> oh, and "zug" too
19:28:53 <b_jonas> that's at least two
19:29:02 <fizzie> It just sorted the output of -l; it could make some sense to keep them grouped manually somehow, but currently even the "real" languages were all jumbled up.
19:29:05 <fizzie> `words -l
19:29:06 <HackEso> valid datasets: --brazilian --bulgarian --canadian-english-insane --catalan --eng-1M --eng-all --eng-fiction --eng-gb --eng-us --esolangs --finnish --french --gaelic --german --german-medical --hebrew --irish --italian --manx --norwegian --ogerman --opcode --pokemon --polish --portuguese --russian --spanish --swedish \ default: --eng-1M
19:29:35 <b_jonas> but "uebergrungshoffen"? at least write it as "übergrungschoffen" if you want to make it look real
19:30:11 <kmc> canadian-english-insane ?
19:30:32 <fizzie> kmc: The naming comes from the... aspell? ispell? one of those... dictionary names.
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19:30:50 <fizzie> That's what (I think) Phantom_*Hoover used to set it up.
19:31:47 <fizzie> So for some languages there are -small, -large, -huge and -insane variants of the dictionaries.
19:31:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
19:33:19 <fizzie> b_jonas: I heard ẞ got accepted as a legal option for the uppercase ß, alongside SS.
19:35:28 <FireFly> Last I read about that in german, it depends on the nature of the text you're uppercasing... which is great, it now means we have collation rules that depend on semantics
19:35:46 <fizzie> Wikipedia wasn't that nuanced: "In 2016, the Council for German Orthography proposed the introduction of optional use of ẞ in its ruleset (i.e. variants STRASSE vs. STRAẞE would be accepted as equally valid).[9] The rule was officially adopted in 2017.[10]"
19:36:27 <FireFly> ah
19:36:38 <FireFly> I might misremember
19:39:02 <b_jonas> meh, it's not like they can mess up anything worse than turkish i does
19:41:44 <FireFly> hehe
19:42:17 <b_jonas> it's not like other languages haven't tried to make orthography complicated, but not many things in the west get close to that
19:43:50 <b_jonas> does the i with tone marks keep the dot in vietnamese? is bulgarian and russian using the same script? do punctuation characters appear differently in chinese vs japanese vertical text without having separate unicode code points despite that kanji that appears differently usually have separate code points now?
19:43:59 <b_jonas> all small cake compared to the trouble that turkish i causes
19:44:24 <b_jonas> heck, turkish i causes terrible trouble regardless of how we try to handle it
19:44:38 <b_jonas> if we could go back and redesign computers and unicode from the start, it would still cause a problem
19:45:36 <zzo38> Unicode is a mess
19:45:58 <zzo38> ASCII is OK, although still there is some things I would have designed differently in ASCII
19:46:11 <b_jonas> even if you had a time machine, it would be easier to assassinate Kemal Atatürk and hope for a saner orthography reform than to try to fix using it afterwards
19:49:20 <zzo38> For use of Chinese writing, maybe Cangjie encoding is OK
19:51:55 <b_jonas> ``` echo wisdom/mo*
19:51:55 <HackEso> wisdom/mockingbird wisdom/modal logic wisdom/module wisdom/mojibake wisdom/mole wisdom/molum wisdom/monad wisdom/monads wisdom/monoid wisdom/monoidal category wisdom/monoids wisdom/monomorphism wisdom/monqy wisdom/month wisdom/montreal wisdom/moo wisdom/moon wisdom/mornington crescent wisdom/morphism wisdom/morphology wisdom/morse wisdom/mosquito wisdom/moth wisdom/mothball wisdom/mother wisdom/mothology wisdom/mousse
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19:56:13 <kmc> it's too bad that there's no way to hug people over the internet
19:56:25 <FireFly> that would've been neat
19:56:27 <int-e> no, it's brilliant
19:57:00 <zzo38> (I do not mean the Cangjie input method, but rather the related Cangjie encoding, which can be produced directly by Cangjie input method though)
19:57:42 <rain1> hello
19:59:37 <kmc> hello
20:00:04 <int-e> kmc: but it's not that people haven't tried, using things like http://paste.debian.net/1076594/
20:02:19 <rain1> o/ hey kmc thye did game of life in baba is you
20:02:25 <rain1> https://twitter.com/fengchuiyulin/status/1110423064020480000
20:03:37 <b_jonas> rain1: whoa
20:04:01 <rain1> if you scroll down he runs a glider gun in it, very nice!
20:04:05 <int-e> oh my
20:07:24 <b_jonas> time to make an esolangs.org article about Baba is You then
20:08:02 <b_jonas> is it called "Baba is You" or "Baba Is You" or "Baba is you"?
20:08:09 <int-e> I think I'll be happy if I find out what I'm missing for the last achievement.
20:08:46 <int-e> Steam calls it "Baba Is You"
20:08:51 <b_jonas> yeah
20:08:57 <zzo38> b_jonas: Yes, if you can actually describe how the rules of how it is work, then I might want to see, too
20:09:07 <b_jonas> nah, I'll just make a stub
20:09:11 <b_jonas> I don't know how it works
20:10:15 <rain1> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2nAmO0WoAEIJgT.png
20:10:20 <rain1> zzo38: it isexplained here
20:12:43 <zzo38> It is listing the rules but isn't explaining how the rules is working.
20:15:39 <rain1> oh right
20:15:53 <esowiki> [[Baba Is You]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60915 * B jonas * (+603) Created page with "'''Baba Is You''' is an puzzle video game that appeals specifically to esoteric programmers. It was released in 2019, but an early demo version with much fewer features was k..."
20:16:47 <b_jonas> hmm, is that the correct way to use "appeals"? should it be "appeals for esoteric programmers" instead?
20:16:47 <rain1> there are sentences made up of blocks which contain words that are classified into some groups. we could call them noun verb etc.
20:18:14 <rain1> each sentence is interpreted into game rules and the rules will be applied on each tick of the game
20:18:46 <myname> oh, we have game entries?
20:18:48 <rain1> the interpretation process is based on the sentence structure and nouns refers to game objects and each verb has a specific subroutine in the game code
20:19:22 <zzo38> Yes, but I would hope in esolang wiki you can write how all of the words are doing, and that stuff
20:19:25 <rain1> the list of interpretations and game code would be large and a lot of complexity
20:19:45 <zzo38> What you mention is good but doesn't mention each word doing
20:20:06 <rain1> example is PUSH, it means that any object that is YOU who moves onto the same square as a pushable object will result in the object attempting to move forward one
20:20:14 <rain1> its learned by playing the game
20:20:37 <zzo38> (at least, the words that are used in that Game of Life should be listed perhaps)
20:21:09 <rain1> x:noun is y:noun results in all x objects being turned into y objects in one tick
20:21:15 <rain1> sorry y into x*
20:21:31 <int-e> I think I can follow https://pbs.twimg.com/ext_tw_video_thumb/1110422077813809152/pu/img/n1y8rQcU4_GKpOnk.jpg... nice use of shut/open/has.
20:23:08 <int-e> (I expected something completely different using way more different objects...)
20:23:49 <int-e> Does "eat" feature in the game? I don't recall it atm...
20:26:11 <esowiki> [[Talk:Baba Is You]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60916 * Zzo38 * (+261) Created page with "Hopefully later more description can be added, such as how some of the words doing (at least the ones used in that Game of Life implementation, and then later possibly the oth..."
20:26:49 <int-e> And I guess the use of the ghost is just for cosmetic reasons.
20:26:57 <rain1> it could take some work to reverse engineer the game
20:27:02 <b_jonas> int-e: "different objects"? does that even matter? aren't they more or less interchangable?
20:27:02 <rain1> just by playing it lots
20:27:10 <rain1> to do a reimplementation
20:27:46 <b_jonas> isn't that like using different identifiers in a C program?
20:28:21 <int-e> b_jonas: I thought it would be hard to measure a stack of equal objects, but they found a way.
20:29:31 <int-e> b_jonas: so rather than doing that I was imagining to use one object for each of the 9 squares in the neighbourhood and then combine them in some unary counting fashion. It'd be far less elegant.
20:30:07 <int-e> (And much bigger as well, I guess.)
20:31:16 <b_jonas> that reminds me. shameless plug: https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/3434/shortest-game-of-life/112163#112163 obfuscated implementation of Game of Life
20:32:19 <b_jonas> hmm, does codegolf se have any answers in Baba Is You yet?
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20:35:00 <b_jonas> and have they agreed on how to measure code size in it yet?
20:39:29 <myname> i'd say similarly to befunge
20:40:09 <b_jonas> befunge is defined to read code from a plain text file.
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20:48:48 <myname> babanis you havibg pictures is just a cosmetic choice
20:49:16 <myname> it would just as well work with ascii characters if you define meaning to them properly
20:50:29 <myname> both have cells with a defined valuenthat acts in a certain way
20:50:41 <myname> befungenis not a billying automaton, though
20:51:00 <myname> there are some, but i don't know if they are used for golfing
20:51:01 <b_jonas> but the big difference is that Baba is You can have more than one object on a cell
20:51:17 <b_jonas> and also it doesn't have the language define a canonical source code representation
20:51:24 <myname> fair poikt, i didn't think of floating
20:51:27 <int-e> so count objects
20:52:03 <myname> object count is a good reference, but it lacks an expression of compactness imho
20:52:10 <b_jonas> int-e: and then you get into the same trouble as with live cell count in Life, where you can implement anything with a fixed (although pretty large) code size
20:52:12 <int-e> and perhaps add a log(w+h)
20:53:14 <int-e> Though that particular GoL implementation relies on a background (the tiles are essential), but there's no reason why that is necessary.
20:53:45 <b_jonas> int-e: no it doesn't I thin
20:53:56 <b_jonas> at least it relies on a background of nothing live
20:54:02 <b_jonas> with just a constant number of cells live
20:54:22 <int-e> https://twitter.com/fengchuiyulin/status/1110423064020480000 needs the tiles in the background to work.
20:54:26 <b_jonas> the thing that relies on a periodic background pattern is the magic to make messages travel faster than c/2
20:54:31 <int-e> that's what I'm saying.
20:54:37 <b_jonas> oh, you mean the baba one
20:54:41 <int-e> not talking about GoL.
20:54:49 <b_jonas> but can you fix that somehow?
20:54:54 <int-e> "that particular GoL implementation"
20:55:34 <b_jonas> I guess that might not be known yet, because Baba Is You programming is still young
20:55:37 <int-e> I'm sure it can be fixed... I mean, you can populate the level with tiles using the 'more' mechanic, for example
20:56:03 <b_jonas> isn't there a "Nothing" mechanic to populate the whole level with something?
20:56:09 <b_jonas> no wait
20:56:11 <b_jonas> it's "Empty"
20:56:18 <b_jonas> because Baba Is You prefers short words as keywords
20:56:19 <int-e> To my mind there's really no doubt that you can do that without the prepopulated background.
20:56:29 <b_jonas> ok
20:56:36 <int-e> like "DEFEAT" for "LOSE" ;-)
20:57:04 <int-e> (not all the words are short)
20:58:19 <int-e> There's nothing longer than 6 letters though... except that isn't exactly true either. Baba is fairly good at pushing the boundaries.
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21:05:17 <shachaf> ME IS SHORT
21:06:13 <b_jonas> "ME"? they're using "YOU". it's in the name of the gamne
21:06:26 <b_jonas> they don't try to shorten below four letters I think, because four fit nicely in a square
21:06:58 <int-e> b_jonas: there's ME as well.
21:07:15 <b_jonas> hmm
21:07:26 <int-e> it's a noun
21:07:34 <int-e> for some reason ;)
21:19:28 <b_jonas> oh right! because YOU is a verb
21:19:42 <shachaf> It's an adjective.
21:19:55 <b_jonas> huh... oh
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21:20:03 <b_jonas> so the verbs are the stuff like "IS"?
21:20:11 <b_jonas> and "CAN HAS"...
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21:29:04 <int-e> b_jonas: ME: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/baba-me.png
21:31:45 <b_jonas> hmm
21:33:08 <b_jonas> the "TEXT" is more disturbing than the "ME" though
21:33:19 <b_jonas> mind you, "EMPTY" still is scarier than those
21:33:34 <int-e> WORD.
21:35:02 <b_jonas> yeah
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22:11:34 <b_jonas> `? ski boxing
22:11:35 <HackEso> ski boxing? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:11:40 <b_jonas> is ski boxing a tanebvention?
22:13:18 <b_jonas> `? quantum mechanics
22:13:19 <HackEso> quantum mechanics? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:20:04 <arseniiv> kmc: *hug hug* …though it has so little effect, yeah
22:24:20 <arseniiv> int-e: spoilery spoilers :(((
22:24:45 <arseniiv> `? QFT
22:24:46 <HackEso> QFT? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:24:55 <arseniiv> `? quantum *
22:24:56 <HackEso> quantum *? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:25:00 <arseniiv> `? quantum field
22:25:01 <HackEso> quantum field? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:25:06 <arseniiv> `? quantum field theory
22:25:07 <HackEso> quantum field theory? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:25:15 <b_jonas> `? quantum chromodynamics
22:25:16 <HackEso> quantum chromodynamics? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:25:17 <b_jonas> hmm
22:25:22 <b_jonas> `? tanebventions: math
22:25:23 <HackEso> Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, string diagrams, linear logic, the reals, Lambek's lemma, Curry's paradox, Stone spaces, algebraic geometry, locales, and histograms.
22:25:30 <b_jonas> `? tanebventions: physics
22:25:31 <HackEso> tanebventions: physics? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:25:37 <b_jonas> `? tanebventions
22:25:38 <HackEso> Tanebventions include necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, metar, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, sanity, Italian, the grace period, the limerick, ruin, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths or tanebventions: foods. He never invents anything involving sex.
22:25:51 <b_jonas> there, you see? the universe
22:25:53 <b_jonas> `? the unvierse
22:25:54 <HackEso> the unvierse? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:25:55 <b_jonas> `? the universe
22:25:56 <HackEso> The universe was invented by Taneb as an opposing force to oerjan. Escardó proved that it was indiscreet.
22:25:57 <b_jonas> `? universe
22:25:58 <HackEso> A universe is a poem in one stanza.
22:28:57 <arseniiv> oh, Escardó… is that Martin Escardó, and why do I know that name?
22:29:18 <b_jonas> hehe
22:29:20 <arseniiv> don’t remember why is he famous
22:30:06 <arseniiv> `? propagator
22:30:09 <HackEso> propagator? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:30:14 <arseniiv> `? Feynmann
22:30:15 <HackEso> Feynmann? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:30:48 <arseniiv> `? my little pony
22:30:49 <HackEso> my little pony? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:30:54 <arseniiv> thank gods
22:32:59 <arseniiv> oh okay it’s HoTT, cubical types and something
22:33:09 <b_jonas> My Little Pony was invented by Laurent Faust, not by Taneb
22:33:55 <b_jonas> `? gcc
22:33:56 <HackEso> gcc? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:33:57 <b_jonas> `? ghc
22:33:58 <HackEso> ghc? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:34:07 <b_jonas> `? quick
22:34:09 <HackEso> quick? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:34:22 <arseniiv> btw anyone could tell something about cubical types what could be more or less understood by someone knowing a handful about dependent types?
22:34:50 <b_jonas> `? tume cube
22:34:51 <HackEso> tume cube? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:34:53 <b_jonas> `? time cube
22:34:54 <HackEso> EARTH HAS 4 CORNER SIMULTANEOUS 4-DAY TIME CUBE IN ONLY 24 HOUR ROTATION. 4 CORNER DAYS, CUBES 4 QUAD EARTH. Bible A Lie & Word Is Lies. Navel Connects 4 Corner 4s. God Is Born Of A Mother - She Left Belly B. Signature. Your dirty lying teachers use only the midnight to midnight 1 day (ignoring 3 other days) Time to not foul (already wrong) bible time. Lie that corrupts earth you educated stupid fools.
22:34:59 <b_jonas> ^ those cubical types?
22:35:11 <arseniiv> a time ago I looked at the article introducing them, though once only, and hadn’t understood
22:35:14 <arseniiv> nononono
22:35:20 <arseniiv> I don’t please
22:35:36 <arseniiv> just not time cube I swear I’ll behave
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22:37:05 <int-e> wtf is that entry
22:37:25 <int-e> I guess it's the other kind of esoteric...
22:37:25 <arseniiv> I don’t please => there should be exclamation marks between each pair of words
22:37:58 <int-e> arseniiv: well you didn't please
22:38:07 <arseniiv> int-e: that time cue is oh I shouldn’t. It was expired for a good reason. Though you could google it at your own risk
22:38:32 <arseniiv> I was wounded just by reading _about_ it
22:38:44 <arseniiv> in en.wikipedia I think
22:39:17 <int-e> `w
22:39:18 <HackEso> cooperate//"Cooperate" is a common misspelling of "cōöperāte".
22:39:28 <b_jonas> `? moose
22:39:29 <HackEso> moose? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:39:29 <b_jonas> `? meese
22:39:30 <HackEso> meese? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:39:31 <int-e> . o O ( corporate )
22:40:11 <b_jonas> `? gene ray
22:40:13 <HackEso> Dr Gene Ray is the Greatest Philosopher, and is the Greatest Mathematician. Cubic Harmonics. Only Cubic Harmonics can save humanity. Cubic Harmonics will pacify all religions. 96-hour Cubic Day debunks 1-day unnatural god. 96-hour day willdisprove disunity god. Academians are teaching - pseudocience. Worshipping a Word God will destroy the USA.
22:40:20 <int-e> . o O ( chocolate moose )
22:40:38 <b_jonas> int-e: yes, the moose mousse, as in that MLP episode titled MMMM
22:40:48 <int-e> arseniiv: I guess it's not really more painful than some of the terrible puns we have here.
22:41:20 <int-e> `rot13 shachaf
22:41:21 <HackEso> funpuns
22:41:39 <int-e> (now *that* was a spoiler.)
22:41:52 <fizzie> There's a pretty time-cube-ish thing I don't quite remember the name of back in Finland, preached by a guy who goes around with his self-published books in a cart, seen him around the university campus a few times.
22:42:20 <int-e> b_jonas: what's MLP?
22:42:35 <fizzie> Ether vortices, that was it.
22:42:41 <fizzie> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kauko_Armas_Nieminen
22:42:59 <b_jonas> int-e: My Little Pony
22:43:38 <b_jonas> int-e: and the episode is actually not quite titled that, it's https://mlp.fandom.com/wiki/MMMystery_on_the_Friendship_Express
22:44:09 <b_jonas> and the mousse moose looks like https://mlp.fandom.com/wiki/File:Chocolate_mousse_moose_at_door_S2E24.png
22:44:12 <int-e> ... why did I ask.
22:44:31 <b_jonas> it's the cake that's titled MMMM
22:44:35 <arseniiv> int-e: hmmm I still think you quite underestimate the scale of that TC thing
22:45:40 <int-e> arseniiv: The Baba one? Not sure what you mean by scale.
22:45:54 <int-e> ooooh
22:46:10 <int-e> arseniiv: TC is hard-wired in my mind.
22:46:16 <arseniiv> int-e: (now *that* was a spoiler.) => oh. Is that intentional all the way down?
22:46:19 <int-e> "Turing Complete"
22:46:28 <b_jonas> `? tc
22:46:29 <b_jonas> `? tg
22:46:29 <HackEso> Tc is the abbreviation for Technetium, an element so sophisticated that it does not exist naturally.
22:46:30 <HackEso> TG is short for Turing-Gödel, the highest possible level of difficulty for a multiplayer game. At this level, it's undecidable whether you can manage to halt before losing or not.
22:47:22 <int-e> `? cr
22:47:23 <HackEso> cr? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:47:38 <b_jonas> `? lf
22:47:39 <HackEso> lf? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:47:40 <b_jonas> `? ok
22:47:41 <int-e> (CR is Church-Rosser. Not Carriage Return.)
22:47:41 <HackEso> ok? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:47:42 <b_jonas> `? na
22:47:43 <HackEso> na? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:47:45 <arseniiv> int-e: TC is hard-wired in my mind. => I like ambiguous abbreviations too :P
22:47:46 <b_jonas> `? n/a
22:47:47 <HackEso> n/a? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:47:54 <arseniiv> it was intentional
22:48:05 <int-e> arseniiv: you are an evil person.
22:48:10 <int-e> arseniiv: welcome to the club.,
22:48:42 <b_jonas> maybe he traveled back in time to rearrange the Phoenician alphabet so that that rot13 thing works out
22:48:53 <arseniiv> int-e: sknaht
22:49:16 <int-e> arseniiv: shachaf was unhappy when I pointed out that "Schaf" is "sheep" in German :)
22:49:51 <arseniiv> oh
22:49:52 <int-e> And it's still the closest "real" word I know of.
22:50:32 <int-e> `? int-e
22:50:33 <HackEso> int-e är inte svensk. Hen kommer att spränga solen. Hen står för sig själv. Hen gillar inte färger, men han gillar dissonans. Er hat ein Hipster-Spiel gekauft.
22:50:37 <arseniiv> it reminds me how I was posting something on ggroups and it did take 4 on my email
22:50:51 <arseniiv> it was very sad
22:51:17 <int-e> Nobody pointed out the Swedish word "inte" when I picked that nickname.
22:51:32 <int-e> I guess it was more of a handle, at the time.
22:51:49 <b_jonas> oh, as for nicks resembling real words, I hearby requesting that if you make a porthello from my nick, you try to use "jó napot" rather than "bonjour"
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22:53:54 <arseniiv> `? porthello
22:53:55 <HackEso> Hellonfused one. Porthellos are the standard greeting format in #esoteric. Best enjoyed with some thé or caffè and a fternooner.
22:54:03 <arseniiv> oh so it’s official
22:54:31 <arseniiv> I mean, the name
22:54:42 <fizzie> Being recorded in wisdom is a very low bar of officialdom.
22:54:44 <int-e> . o O ( Rosser, Returning in a Carriage from Church = Church-Rosser Carriage Return )
22:55:09 <arseniiv> (rofl)
22:55:11 <b_jonas> yeah. good arsenightiv
22:55:27 <b_jonas> gtg to bed
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22:58:14 <arseniiv> …wait I haven’t had time to say b_ciaonas
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23:00:35 * kmc hugs arseniiv
23:01:57 <fizzie> `slwd hms pinafore//s|^/||
23:01:58 <HackEso> hms pinafore//HMS Pinafore is just some infernal nonsense, according to general majority opinion.
23:02:28 <fizzie> I'm pretty sure it had an unintentional leading slash, from the fact that `le/rn uses / instead of the more common // as a delimiter.
23:18:05 <shachaf> Not anymore, right?
23:21:05 <int-e> `? le/rn
23:21:06 <HackEso> le/rn makes creating wisdom entries manually a thing of the past. Usage: `le/[/]rn <key>//<wisdom>
23:21:28 <int-e> `? wisdom
23:21:29 <HackEso> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and, uh, that other one? It started with, like, an ø?
23:22:05 <int-e> `nohuglist
23:22:06 <HackEso> ​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: nohuglist: not found
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23:28:59 <fizzie> Right, guess it's been fixed.
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