00:05:35 <int-e> (a \/ b) /\ ((a /\ b) \/ c) = (a \/ b) /\ ((a \/ c) /\ (b \/ c)) = (a \/ c) /\ ((a \/ b) /\ (c \/ b)) = (a \/ c) /\ ((a /\ c) \/ b) <-- not immediately obvious :)
00:06:54 <shachaf> Is there a way to write median such that it is obvious?
00:08:00 <int-e> hmm. almost. (a \/ b) /\ (a \/ c) /\ (b \/ c) is at least obviously symmetric.
00:08:21 <int-e> but it's still unclear that it's equal to its dual.
00:09:32 <shachaf> It also uses five comparisons in the obvious implementation, rather than three.
00:09:55 <shachaf> Well, the way I wrote it has four comparisons, but it does both min and max for a and b.
00:10:23 <int-e> sure it has more comparisons.
00:11:07 <int-e> and if you have it in that form the fact that you can use distributivity once is fairly obvious.
00:12:42 <shachaf> "the smaller of the three pairwise maxima" is pretty clear, at least.
00:13:14 <shachaf> What does it do in a poset?
00:13:46 <int-e> (a \/ b) /\ (a \/ c) /\ (b \/ c) = ((a /\ (a \/ c)) \/ (b /\ (a \/ c))) /\ (b \/ c) = (a \/ (b /\ (a \/ c))) /\ (b \/ c) = (a /\ (b \/ c)) \/ (b /\ (b \/ c) /\ (a \/ c)) = (a /\ (b \/ c)) \/ (b /\ (a \/ c)) = (a /\ b) \/ (a /\ c) \/ (b /\ a) \/ (b /\ c) = (a /\ b) \/ (a /\ c) \/ (b /\ c)
00:14:31 <int-e> if you just have a poset, you won't have /\ or \/...
00:15:01 <int-e> If you have a non-distributive lattice I think the duality breaks down.
00:15:23 <int-e> (I mean the equation I just derived.)
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00:27:37 <arseniiv> does somebody know how to mend the sleeping schedule?
00:28:35 <shachaf> go traveling to another time zone for a while hth
00:29:02 <kmc> try melatonin
00:29:28 <kmc> read the excessively long slatestarcodex post about it
00:29:54 <shachaf> thanks for narrowing down the set of slatestarcodex posts
00:30:08 <kmc> shachaf: did I tell you about my adventures with galantamine
00:30:32 <arseniiv> okay I think I’ll go then, it’s morning here
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00:30:42 <shachaf> i,i goofusamine and galantamine
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00:32:29 <shachaf> kmc: i saw a good video that had kittens in it on the internet
00:32:35 <shachaf> but unfortunately i lost it
00:32:40 <shachaf> so you're just going to have to imagine some kittens
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00:36:20 <int-e> shachaf: and it's actually trivial to produce an example of a lattice where that operation is not self-dual, namely the one with 3 incomparable elements, plus top and bottom elements.
00:37:01 <int-e> ("trivial" in the sense that starting with three incomparable elements is very natural for this property.)
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15:10:22 <orin> at most is the nsame thing as maximum, not minimum
15:12:00 <orin> oh I see... "x is at most y" is the same thing as "x = min(x,y);"
15:12:20 <orin> so it's like a 'min=' operator
15:14:17 <orin> I am not sure how that would work in a functional language tho
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19:47:12 <kmc> shachaf: you may be interested to know, that Ted Chiang is reading "Exhalation" on Thursday June 13 at 7:30 PM at Green Apple Books (my favorite bookstore) on 9th Ave in San Francisco
19:47:19 <kmc> or maybe second favorite... it doesn't have a cat unfortunately
19:48:57 <HackEso> Cats are cool, but should be illegal.
19:49:24 <int-e> Puns are fun, but should be illegal.
19:51:06 <shachaf> I should get a couple of cats and name them This and That.
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19:51:37 <kmc> and I like That
19:52:47 <shachaf> kmc: https://i.imgur.com/LOiSViu.gifv
19:53:29 <kmc> so was the cat climbing her while she tried to keep her cool?
19:54:58 <arseniiv> though my cat is completely impossible sometimes… to bear
20:01:31 <shachaf> http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-1313
20:05:31 <int-e> that's the wrong kind of esoterics for me.
20:08:20 <arseniiv> shachaf: isn’t it tagged as joke? It seems too bad for a serious one
20:10:13 <arseniiv> some of them are definitely creepy, and joke ones, I think, are never creepy, and this one is a bear^W^W unbearable
20:29:42 <int-e> I guess the whole wiki is a work of fiction. I'm not in the right mood for that.
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20:47:00 <arseniiv> but there are things in which one immerses way better than this unbelievable page IMO
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21:04:23 <b_jonas> shachaf: So This is This and That is That: / and there's how you ad-dress a cat.
21:22:54 <arseniiv> . o O ( so This is That and That is This, and nothing will be what it seems )
21:25:39 <shachaf> I think it's also Eliot's.
21:29:11 <shachaf> What's the difference between that and a regular allusion?
21:29:41 <int-e> in this context, a regular allusion is not a cat.
21:32:06 <arseniiv> shachaf: if b_jonas cited the original, and you alluded to it earlier than that (via retcon, possilbly?), that may be called a reverse allusion, I think. If
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21:51:32 <b_jonas> you mean like I randomly quoted it, and then shachaf used his crystal ball earlier to foresee that and allude to it?
21:51:45 <b_jonas> yeah, that's not a bad hypothesis. it matches my personality at least.
22:02:54 <arseniiv> though it’s not why I came with “reverse allusion” name in the first place—I just thought it’s funny that situation is in some sense reversed compared to usual allusions somehow, it was a vague feeling, but latter came the rationalization
22:08:10 <b_jonas> ``` set -e; cd wisdom; print "%s/ " vi*
22:08:12 <HackEso> Error: no such file "%s/ " \ Error: no "print" mailcap rules found for type "text/plain" \ Error: no "print" mailcap rules found for type "text/plain" \ Error: no "print" mailcap rules found for type "text/plain" \ Error: no "print" mailcap rules found for type "text/plain" \ Error: no "print" mailcap rules found for type "text/plain"
22:08:18 <b_jonas> ``` set -e; cd wisdom; printf "%s/ " vi*
22:08:18 <HackEso> vi/ victoria/ vim/ violation/ virgil/
22:08:30 <b_jonas> virgil? is that one of mine?
22:08:34 <HackEso> Virgil is a prayer at dawn, as well as an ancient Italian poet who led Dante to hell so they can ask the blind transgendered seer Anchises stupid politics questions concerning contemporary noble families.
22:08:47 <HackEso> vi is in a relationship with emacs.
22:08:48 <HackEso> vim equals to cmxciv or cmxcvi, depending on which part of Roman Empire you are.
22:08:54 <HackEso> Queen Victoria is the most victorious queen the world has ever known, even having won at the not dying contest.
22:08:57 <HackEso> Violation is the act of playing an instrument in the viola family.
22:13:28 <int-e> right.. sex and violins.
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22:17:25 <arseniiv> b_jonas: what one was you looking for?
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22:19:44 <arseniiv> oh, didn’t hear about these before
22:22:23 <b_jonas> no wonder, because they don't have a wisdom entry
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22:46:32 <b_jonas> an improved Disfigure? nice
22:46:50 <b_jonas> (a card in the upcoming M:tG set, called Defile)
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