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01:14:37 <esowiki> [[Mouse]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63226&oldid=63182 * Salpynx * (+315) more details, and simple examples
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02:05:20 <esowiki> [[Adar]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63227&oldid=63225 * A * (+186) /* Examples */
02:05:51 <esowiki> [[Adar]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63228&oldid=63227 * A * (-4) /* Stabilizers*/ Bad English
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02:13:13 <esowiki> [[Adar]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63229&oldid=63228 * A * (+86) /* Truth-machine */
02:15:25 <esowiki> [[Adar]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63230&oldid=63229 * A * (+1) /* Truth-machine */
02:16:16 <esowiki> [[Adar]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63231&oldid=63230 * A * (+73) /* Truth-machine */
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02:17:48 <esowiki> [[Adar]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63232&oldid=63231 * A * (+102) /* Oscillators */
02:18:41 <esowiki> [[Talk:Adar]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63233&oldid=63224 * A * (+146) /* Turing completeness proof waiting to be verified */
02:19:27 <esowiki> [[Adar]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63234&oldid=63232 * A * (+4) /* Stabilizers */ Bad style
02:20:06 <esowiki> [[Adar]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63235&oldid=63234 * A * (+4) /* Stabilizers */
02:21:15 <esowiki> [[Adar]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63236&oldid=63235 * A * (+101) /* Oscillators */
02:35:34 <esowiki> [[Talk:Adar]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63237&oldid=63233 * A * (+144) /* Automatic incrementing */
02:40:17 <esowiki> [[Adar]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63238&oldid=63236 * A * (+230) /* Interpreter */
02:41:03 <esowiki> [[Adar]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63239&oldid=63238 * A * (-14) /* Interpreter */
02:41:40 <esowiki> [[Adar]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63240&oldid=63239 * A * (+4) /* Interpreter */ elegance
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02:58:38 <esowiki> [[Adar]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63241&oldid=63240 * A * (+415) /* Interpreter */
02:58:58 <esowiki> [[Adar]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63242&oldid=63241 * A * (+19) /* Interpreter */
03:02:33 <esowiki> [[Adar]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63243&oldid=63242 * A * (+119) /* Interpreter */
03:10:09 <esowiki> [[Talk:Adar]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63244&oldid=63237 * A * (+290) /* Turing completeness proof waiting to be verified */
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04:42:24 <esowiki> [[Adar]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63245&oldid=63243 * A * (+158) /* Stabilizers */
04:46:06 <esowiki> [[Adar]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63246&oldid=63245 * A * (+374) /* Oscillators */
04:50:04 <esowiki> [[Adar]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63247&oldid=63246 * A * (+17) /* Oscillators */
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04:54:29 <esowiki> [[Adar]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63248&oldid=63247 * A * (+63) /* Oscillators */
04:55:50 <esowiki> [[Adar]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63249&oldid=63248 * A * (+97) /* Oscillators */
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07:49:39 <esowiki> [[Talk:Adar]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63250&oldid=63244 * TuxCrafting * (+836)
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09:54:23 <esowiki> [[Talk:Adar]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63251&oldid=63250 * A * (+402) /* Computational class */
09:54:45 <esowiki> [[Talk:Adar]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63252&oldid=63251 * A * (+31) /* Computational class */
09:56:13 <esowiki> [[Talk:Adar]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63253&oldid=63252 * A * (+67) /* Computational class */
10:00:44 <esowiki> [[Talk:Adar]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63254&oldid=63253 * A * (+210) /* Computational class */
10:05:02 <esowiki> [[Talk:Adar]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63255&oldid=63254 * A * (+173) /* JPDEC + INC is computationally equivalent to JZDEC */
10:05:18 <esowiki> [[Talk:Adar]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63256&oldid=63255 * A * (-145) /* The rest of the compilation */
10:05:34 <esowiki> [[Talk:Adar]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63257&oldid=63256 * A * (-5) /* JPDEC + INC is computationally equivalent to a modified JZDEC(which in turn is equivalent to the actual JZDEC) */
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15:26:56 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Zwedgy * New user account
15:33:12 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63258&oldid=63085 * Zwedgy * (+185) /* Introductions */
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18:13:12 <esowiki> [[Apsw]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=63259 * TuxCrafting * (+6316) Created page with "Apsw (/ps/) is a reversible esoteric programming language created by [[User:TuxCrafting]] based on swapping bits, where the number of set bits in the memory is finit..."
18:14:51 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63260&oldid=63189 * TuxCrafting * (+11)
18:15:36 <esowiki> [[User:TuxCrafting]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63261&oldid=63190 * TuxCrafting * (+11)
18:17:16 <esowiki> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63262&oldid=63260 * TuxCrafting * (+0) fix alphabetic ordering: oops, should've previewed
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20:21:36 <int-e> shachaf: https://twitter.com/hashcat/status/923584012278489094 is apparently something you can get on AWS for about $25/h... so $500k (give or take) should be enough for an MD5 collision ;-)
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20:57:57 <shachaf> int-e: Hmm, that's almost two years ago.
20:59:30 <int-e> But I don't expect it to be all that much cheaper now :)
21:00:05 <shachaf> Well, I'll contribute up to $5.
21:00:36 <int-e> Oh yeah... let's do a kickstarter... not.
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21:01:40 <shachaf> obviously the right answer is to do a blockchain thing
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21:08:47 <arseniiv> int-e: oh is it that thing you were doing a couple of days ago? (I was scarce on that topic, and then I was in a place without any interwebs so I had no chance to figure out what was all that stuff about MD5)
21:08:58 <arseniiv> ideally I should read the logs, I know :D
21:10:16 <int-e> arseniiv: yeah but at this point it's really more of a joke
21:10:22 <b_jonas> arseniiv: it was about that Typeable thing in Haskell,
21:11:10 <b_jonas> which if I understand correctly, is something that lets you augment existential values with a runtime repr of their type, and cast them back to the plain type if the representation matches,
21:11:26 <int-e> arseniiv: I mean, there's no way I'll actually do that by sheer brute force, even though it is clearly feasible.
21:11:27 <b_jonas> but for some reason it works by storing the MD5 of constructor names as part of the representation,
21:11:43 <int-e> arseniiv: And it should be an order of magnitude cheaper than the AWS price tag, too.
21:11:53 <int-e> But that's still expensive :)
21:12:01 <b_jonas> so shachaf concluded that if he could find two haskell identifiers whose MD5 of the utf-32be encoding matched, then he could break the type system
21:12:19 <b_jonas> at least this is my understanding, I don't really know all about the Haskell part
21:12:22 <int-e> ... nice attribution.
21:12:38 <b_jonas> and he did a proof of concept attack with part of the MD5 matching
21:13:01 <b_jonas> I mean, int-e did this new attack
21:13:15 <b_jonas> and I don't really understand what involvement shachaf has in it, besides the original bug ticket
21:13:17 <arseniiv> int-e: don’t worry, I’ll overcompensate and attribute all that to you in my memory
21:13:40 <HackEso> Addition, subtraction and multiplication have a certain ring to them.
21:13:51 <HackEso> There are two kinds of fields. Those where you can divide (except by zero), and those where you can conquer.
21:15:25 <arseniiv> I feel there’s not enough geological data in wisdom
21:15:33 <b_jonas> and his proof of concept attack at https://esolangs.org/logs/2019-06-04.html#lRh is missing 16 bits of strength
21:15:52 <b_jonas> so he needs (1<<16) times as much computation time to force a real attack, but it can be parallelized pretty well
21:16:28 <int-e> (and perhaps a factor of 4 because I got lucky)
21:16:48 <b_jonas> arseniiv: it's not a loop, it's a _cycle_. the ring cycle, they call it.
21:16:55 <b_jonas> which I think is a tautology.
21:17:09 <b_jonas> rings are supposed to be cycle-shaped by default
21:17:33 <int-e> You could just re-cycle the 'loop' wisdom entry.
21:17:37 <arseniiv> b_jonas: I mean, that thing with division but not necessarily associativity or something
21:17:52 <b_jonas> int-e: you got lucky by one bit and have to pay back one bit of luck in the full attack as a balance?
21:19:26 <int-e> b_jonas: I only computed about 9.17e13 hashes and 2^48 = 2.8e14.
21:20:29 <b_jonas> so more like a factor of 9 then
21:21:09 <int-e> Why did you square that?
21:21:29 <b_jonas> int-e: you used up your luck. you have to pay that back. you can't always be lucky, it evens out in the end.
21:21:41 <b_jonas> if you used log(3) nats of luck, you have to pay back log(3) nats
21:22:03 <arseniiv> . o O (extremely-bad-and-ungrammatical pun time: when you change your telephone number, it change-rings <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Change_ringing>)
21:22:30 <int-e> > 1 - exp (-1/3^2/2)
21:22:37 <b_jonas> you'll even it out by unblemished sacrifices instead?
21:22:40 <int-e> > logBase 2 (1 - exp (-1/3^2/2))
21:23:10 <int-e> b_jonas: it would be closer to 4.2 bits, though that's not really my objection ;-)
21:23:50 <int-e> b_jonas: I believe in the memory-less nature of luck.
21:25:20 <b_jonas> so you don't even do libations?
21:25:50 <b_jonas> libations. non-animal sacrifices, when you spill some of your drink or grains as a sacrifice for the gods.
21:25:59 <int-e> I shower in the morning, does that count?
21:26:27 <b_jonas> it may, but something tastier than water, such as honey and milk, may be better
21:26:48 <int-e> Eww, I wouldn't want to clean that up...
21:26:59 <arseniiv> obviously one can’t analyze luck with statistics, as it prover there are none (hm I don’t believe this, though. Of course it has some results about lucky, “biased” as they call them, coins)
21:27:03 <HackEso> b_jonas egy nagyon titokzatos személy. Hollétéről egyelőre nem ismertek.
21:27:06 <b_jonas> get a dedicated home altar so you don't have to clear it up
21:28:16 <int-e> `learn-append b_jonas//He is often too busy with appeasing the M:tG gods to make any sense.
21:28:16 <HackEso> /srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: learn-append: not found
21:28:22 <b_jonas> ``` for w in path trace track trail; do \? $w; done
21:28:25 <HackEso> path? ¯\(°_o)/¯ \ trace? ¯\(°_o)/¯ \ track? ¯\(°_o)/¯ \ trail? ¯\(°_o)/¯
21:28:26 <int-e> `learn_append b_jonas//He is often too busy with appeasing the M:tG gods to make any sense.
21:28:27 <HackEso> Can't open wisdom/b_jonas//he: Not a directory. \ /hackenv/bin/learn_append: line 5: wisdom/b_jonas//he: Not a directory \ Learned 'b_jonas//he': cat: wisdom/b_jonas//he: Not a directory
21:28:45 <int-e> how do things work...
21:29:31 <b_jonas> yeah that entry about me is old, might need some refreshment
21:30:21 <b_jonas> not specifically what you're trying, but some refreshment
21:30:27 <int-e> `le/rn_append b_jonas//He is often too busy with appeasing the M:tG gods to make any sense.
21:30:28 <arseniiv> b_jonas: is it useful to use G. Translate on it, or it would spew out something incorrect?
21:30:29 <HackEso> Learned 'b_jonas': b_jonas egy nagyon titokzatos személy. Hollétéről egyelőre nem ismertek. He is often too busy with appeasing the M:tG gods to make any sense.
21:31:58 <shachaf> int-e: Hmm? I think I did conclude that.
21:32:02 <arseniiv> “b_jonas is a very mysterious person. They are not known about their whereabouts yet”: hm, seems legit
21:32:08 <HackEso> wob_jonas is b_jonas in disguise, so that he can do magic tricks.
21:32:21 <shachaf> I'm sure I'm not the only one, though.
21:32:29 <HackEso> int-e är inte svensk. Hen kommer att spränga solen. Hen står för sig själv. Hen gillar inte färger, men han gillar dissonans. Er hat ein Hipster-Spiel gekauft.
21:33:15 <int-e> shachaf: Yeah it is rather obvious.
21:33:15 <arseniiv> “int-e is not Swedish. They will blow up the sun. They stand for themselves. They don't like colors, but he likes dissonance. He chewed a Hipster game.”: and still legit
21:33:43 <int-e> arseniiv: chewed?! nice... but nope.
21:33:48 <arseniiv> though that part about the sun is scary enough to reconsider correctness of that translation
21:34:19 <arseniiv> I think some games are chewable, why not
21:34:29 <arseniiv> that part should definitely be true
21:35:06 <arseniiv> I will better not g. translate other things
21:35:13 <HackEso> Your omnidryad saddle principal ideal golfing toe-obsessed "Darth Ook" oerjan the shifty eldrazi grinch is a punctual expert in minor compaction. Also a Groadep who minces Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience. His arkup-nemesis is mediawiki's default diff. He twice punned without noticing it.
21:35:27 <int-e> arseniiv: There was context. I embarrassed myself on IRC and then wanted to destroy the logs... I stopped at the solar system because anything beyond that would be a little bit too extreme.
21:38:12 <arseniiv> yeah I too seem to remember there was something like more usual “arch-nemesis”
21:38:35 <int-e> arseniiv: that wisdom entry is highly volatile
21:39:58 <int-e> arseniiv: there's a difference between "gekaut" (chewed) and "gekauft" (bought).
21:41:53 <arseniiv> int-e: ah, this definitely makes more sense :) though only other candidate I had in mind was something like “made” or “contributed to”
21:42:57 <int-e> arseniiv: tbf I wouldn't be surprised if the wisdom entry will end up being changed to "gekaut". :P
21:43:59 <arseniiv> if it would, it wouldn’t be me as I fear to meddle with alchemy
21:45:17 <int-e> arseniiv: are you sure you wanted to write that given the context?
21:45:44 <int-e> `learn arseniiv is a blank slate who is afraid of alchemy, especially the kind involving chalk.
21:45:47 <HackEso> Learned 'arseniiv': arseniiv is a blank slate who is afraid of alchemy, especially the kind involving chalk.
21:46:14 <arseniiv> ah it parsed more positively than I thought
21:46:47 <int-e> sorry, my grammar is about as convoluted as my thoughts.
21:47:02 <arseniiv> this is much better than I was afraid it meant, like to be a blank slate is something dangerous to one’s health
21:47:20 <int-e> no, but it's an invitation for other people to write on
21:47:45 <int-e> (that's also funny to parse)
21:49:15 <arseniiv> also about the chalk part, how did you know that?
21:49:32 <arseniiv> I hoped it will forever be in the closed
21:50:57 <int-e> arseniiv: I'm not sure whether you're kidding. Chalk is used to write on slates.
21:52:10 <int-e> arseniiv: The "fun to parse" referred to the idea of writing on an invitation.
21:52:18 <arseniiv> also now I wonder, is there a phrase which means something blank to the naked eye but which also seems read-only
21:53:01 <arseniiv> <int-e> I'm not sure whether you're kidding. => partially :D
21:54:16 <arseniiv> hm yeah this is not a tablet, apparently
21:54:52 <arseniiv> there it should mean a tablet, I think
21:55:44 <arseniiv> wow, it even means more “cleared” than “empty”
21:56:15 <arseniiv> now I would be more careful in self-descriptions
21:56:26 <int-e> oh it's for the wax tablets
21:56:38 <int-e> (the clay ones are hard (literally!) to clear)
21:57:13 <int-e> But I don't know what material the romans used to back the wax.
21:58:39 <int-e> Ah there's a photograph of a wooden one.
21:59:20 <int-e> And a page... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wax_tablet
21:59:28 <arseniiv> int-e: yeah, makes sense. I was expecting clay before I knew just yet it means “erased”
21:59:56 <arseniiv> also it makes a lot of sense retrospectively about those being wax tablets and not clay ones
22:00:27 <b_jonas> so now I have a mixed language wisdom entry, just like int-e and shachaf?
22:00:29 <arseniiv> indeed I don’t remember reading Romans write on clay tablets in education or such
22:00:42 <int-e> learn, forget, repeat
22:00:45 <b_jonas> "<int-e> no, but it's an invitation for other people to write on" => there's a quote where I say something like that
22:01:28 <int-e> b_jonas: apparently you now have a mixed language wisdom entry
22:01:41 <b_jonas> "<int-e> Chalk is used to write on slates." => is it really? don't you write to slate with a stylus that makes marks by just denting its own material, as opposed to a chalk that adds material?
22:02:04 <HackEso> 32) <ehird> `translatefromto hu en Hogy hogy hogy ami kemeny <HackEgo> How hard is that \ 1170) <shachaf> pippi långstrump's name is translated as "gilgi" or "bilbi" usually <ion> Does she have a ring of power?
22:02:08 <b_jonas> that's a clay tablet, I see
22:02:21 <HackEso> 32) <ehird> `translatefromto hu en Hogy hogy hogy ami kemeny <HackEgo> How hard is that \ 1170) <shachaf> pippi långstrump's name is translated as "gilgi" or "bilbi" usually <ion> Does she have a ring of power?
22:02:22 <b_jonas> I don't know how that stuff worked back then
22:02:27 <HackEso> 32) <ehird> `translatefromto hu en Hogy hogy hogy ami kemeny <HackEgo> How hard is that \ 1170) <shachaf> pippi långstrump's name is translated as "gilgi" or "bilbi" usually <ion> Does she have a ring of power?
22:02:45 <int-e> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slate_(writing)
22:03:31 <HackEso> Queen Shachaf of the Dawn sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. He doesn't know when to stop asking questions. We don't like this.
22:04:03 <int-e> (it helps to know that it derives from slate, the rock.)
22:04:20 <HackEso> 1273) <b_jonas> boily: sorry for the boring wisdom entries I added. I mostly did it hoping that someone will stumble on them and replace them with something better.
22:04:31 <b_jonas> arseniiv: ^ that's the one
22:05:29 <arseniiv> I wouldn’t find it ever, then, and it’s good I’m insufficiently stubborn
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22:06:54 <b_jonas> arseniiv: nah, there aren't that many quotes of me
22:07:02 <b_jonas> so you would find it by reading through all of them
22:07:33 <int-e> `` grep -c b_jonas quotes
22:08:55 <arseniiv> BTW does someone use KVIrc here? I’d like to make a script for it to log off when the OS goes into hibernation and to log on when it wakes up, as long ago I had written some nice logoff messages and they aren’t posted, instead I always leave with a ping timeout and it should be boring
22:09:38 <b_jonas> arseniiv: blame the irc servers. always blame the irc servers.
22:09:48 <b_jonas> arseniiv: nah, I don't say many wise things
22:09:59 <HackEso> 1051) <elliott> you know, when people talk about emacs being an OS I doubt what they had in mind was that it needed a package manager
22:10:03 <zzo38> I don't know if anyone use KVIrc here; I use a IRC program that I wrote by myself
22:11:38 <lambdabot> KOAK 092153Z 29012KT 10SM FEW100 BKN180 BKN250 32/06 A2998 RMK AO2 SLP151 T03220056
22:11:59 <int-e> a bit warm, isn't it?
22:12:04 <lambdabot> LOWI 092150Z AUTO 05012KT 020V110 9999 //////CB FEW050 BKN140 18/14 Q1020
22:12:24 <arseniiv> so then it’s unavoidable, I would need to dive in that scripting language alone, in low visibility and heavy precipitatio
22:12:32 <int-e> (It rained here, that helped. But it wasn't all that hot to begin with.)
22:13:06 <int-e> shachaf: at least it's dry :-/
22:14:17 <int-e> pfft: https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/file/tip/le/rm
22:14:48 <b_jonas> what are all those consecutive slashes?
22:15:27 <arseniiv> the first one and maybe there wouldn’t be any over all the summer
22:15:56 <b_jonas> my hon. and learned friend fungot, what does "//////CB" mean?
22:15:56 <fungot> b_jonas: female beauty. of these two great men had prevailed, i will add, with dismay, death may not retain its fnord and stupefaction.
22:16:27 <int-e> 12.20.1 A report from a fully automated AWS that does not include information from sensors for visibility, weather or cloud will report ////, // or ////// respectively in lieu of these parameters.
22:17:55 <int-e> (I wonder if that is correct. Anyway, it is a fully automatic report, and the airport is closed at night.)
22:18:15 <int-e> (So some missing data, whichever it is, is not dramatic)
22:19:00 <b_jonas> either that, or it's a mnemonic for heavy downpour with the rain blowing towards the left side of the line
22:21:13 <int-e> rain: // || \\ hail: :: snow: ** fog: ==
22:21:52 <b_jonas> as for languages, while I was on my vacation in the Netherlands some weeks ago, I had to read some labels in dutch, and I must say, given that I don't understand either of them, dutch language sounds somewhat similar to norwegian
22:22:10 <int-e> We will revolutionize avian meteorology...
22:22:42 <b_jonas> the big difference is that the dots over the vowels work differently in the two
22:27:07 <zzo38> What was also my guess, that it indicates data that is not available.
22:34:16 <arseniiv> okay I’ll timeout in a while now, bye and thanks!
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