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01:34:01 <esowiki> [[Backshift]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63415&oldid=63410 * Salpynx * (+1873) over-analysis of this algorithm
01:36:33 <esowiki> [[Talk:Backshift]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63416&oldid=63409 * Salpynx * (+326) share code
02:01:24 <esowiki> [[Backshift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63417&oldid=63415 * Salpynx * (+160) /* External resources */
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03:55:25 <esowiki> [[Backshift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63418&oldid=63417 * A * (-307)
04:57:34 -!- lizzie_swett[m] has changed nick to tswett[m].
05:00:11 <tswett[m]> Maybe I'll go back to Liz again some day, but for now I'm sticking to Tanner.
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05:49:08 <kmc> tswett[m]: okay!
05:50:03 <kmc> welcome back :)
05:51:28 <kmc> I spent months looking for a new name and then decided that my original given name (Keegan) is just fine
06:34:23 <Sgeo> (async () => { var foo = await { then(f) { f(1); f(2); } }; console.log(foo); })()
06:34:31 <Sgeo> I am secretly disappointed that that only prints 1
06:37:27 <Sgeo> Doing this works though:
06:37:28 <Sgeo> (async () => { var foo = await { then(f) { window.secret = f; } }; console.log(foo); })()
06:37:32 <Sgeo> Then calling secret later
06:37:38 <shachaf> it's not a secret now that you're blabbed
06:37:48 <Sgeo> ....just realized how unimpressive that is.
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08:50:59 <HackEso> 913) <olsner> as long as you're in company where no-one knows both, you can always say either "that's just like welsh ll" or "that's just like klingon tlh" \ 1330) <b_jonas> I don't care for the bf backend as long as it doesn't make the rest of ayacc harder to sue
08:51:46 <HackEso> The 1 is just for disambiguation.
08:51:50 <HackEso> `1 <cmd> is equivalent to `` <cmd>, except that it splits the output into irc-sized pieces. The next pieces can be viewed with `spam. See also `2. Confusingly the obvious generalization of `4.
08:51:58 <HackEso> 10086:2017-01-02 <int-̈e> revert \ 10085:2017-01-02 <rdocöc> learn 1 divided by 1 is 0 \ 5224:2015-01-02 <oerjän> learn The 1 is just for disambiguation. \ 5223:2015-01-02 <oerjän> learn 1 is just for disambiguation.
08:52:21 <shachaf> oerjan: What's that all about?
08:53:00 <HackEso> `2 <cmd> is equivalent to `1 <cmd>, except that it starts displaying the _second_ output piece. Useful when you've already run a command forgetting to use `1.
08:55:09 <int-e> shachaf: funny, that one is partly my fault. https://esolangs.org/logs/2015-01-02.html#lAi
08:56:47 <shachaf> In the case of Star Wars, 4 is just for disambiguation?
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08:57:33 <wob_jonas> tswett[m]: somehow I don't think "boop" is the appropriate sound effect for that
08:59:58 <HackEso> /srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: 2019: not found
09:00:40 <int-e> Oh that tradition died last year already.
09:03:01 <HackEso> #!/bin/sh \ if [ $(date +%Y) = "$(basename "$0")" ] \ then echo "Hello, world!" \ fi
09:03:49 <int-e> `` hbrl cbt # do we have this?
09:03:50 <HackEso> /hackenv/bin/`: line 5: hbrl: command not found
09:04:29 <int-e> `` cwt oerjan # and this would be a silly name for `?
09:04:30 <HackEso> /hackenv/bin/`: line 5: cwt: command not found
09:05:18 <FireFly> HackEsonese is an interesing sh dialect
09:05:49 <int-e> . o O ( cat by tail )
09:06:30 <FireFly> beats the other two expansions of CBT that I've enountered
09:07:23 <int-e> chicken, bacon, tuna
09:21:00 <shachaf> Is wisdom/oerjan the canonical wisdom or something?
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09:22:58 <esowiki> [[Backshift]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63419&oldid=63418 * Salpynx * (+844) 'Hello World' in a sort algorithm... Bogosort can't do that!
09:31:22 <esowiki> [[Talk:Backshift]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63420&oldid=63416 * Salpynx * (+787) sharing more code
09:51:16 <shachaf> Today is June 13th. It's Pigeon Appreciation Day.
09:57:59 <int-e> The pigeon hole principle: In order to find the number of pigeons, count the pigeon holes, then add 1.
09:59:34 <lambdabot> *** "pigeon" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
09:59:35 <lambdabot> n 1: wild and domesticated birds having a heavy body and short
09:59:37 <fizzie> Not a very flattering description.
10:00:04 <lambdabot> *** "lawyer" devil "The Devil's Dictionary (1881-1906)"
10:00:04 <lambdabot> LAWYER, n. One skilled in circumvention of the law.
10:00:25 <lambdabot> *** "law" devil "The Devil's Dictionary (1881-1906)"
10:00:25 <lambdabot> Once Law was sitting on the bench,
10:00:26 <esowiki> [[Backshift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63421&oldid=63419 * A * (-160) /* Test */
10:00:35 <lambdabot> *** "cat" devil "The Devil's Dictionary (1881-1906)"
10:00:35 <lambdabot> CAT, n. A soft, indestructible automaton provided by nature to be
10:00:35 <lambdabot> kicked when things go wrong in the domestic circle.
10:01:26 <esowiki> [[Backshift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63422&oldid=63421 * A * (+66)
10:02:07 <esowiki> [[Backshift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63423&oldid=63422 * A * (+82)
10:07:46 <esowiki> [[Talk:Backshift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63424&oldid=63420 * A * (+271)
10:11:37 <esowiki> [[Talk:Backshift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63425&oldid=63424 * A * (+82) /* Add a characteristic due to the Unary Sorting issue */
10:11:57 <esowiki> [[Talk:Backshift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63426&oldid=63425 * A * (+0) /* Add a characteristic due to the Unary Sorting issue */
10:15:47 <esowiki> [[Backshift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63427&oldid=63423 * A * (+106)
10:20:13 <esowiki> [[Backshift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63428&oldid=63427 * A * (+107) TM
10:24:40 <esowiki> [[Backshift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63429&oldid=63428 * A * (-70) /* Truth-machine */
10:25:36 <esowiki> [[Backshift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63430&oldid=63429 * A * (+71) /* Inverse Truth-machine */
10:26:24 <esowiki> [[Backshift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63431&oldid=63430 * A * (+18)
10:31:03 <esowiki> [[Backshift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63432&oldid=63431 * A * (+2) /* Truth-machine */
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10:36:19 <esowiki> [[Talk:Backshift]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63433&oldid=63426 * A * (-353) /* Add a characteristic due to the Unary Sorting issue */ No, due to considerations for short code
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11:07:12 <esowiki> [[Backshift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63434&oldid=63432 * A * (+0)
11:11:24 <esowiki> [[Talk:Backshift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63435&oldid=63433 * A * (+315) /* Modified version of the removed code from the main page */
11:13:12 <esowiki> [[Talk:Backshift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63436&oldid=63435 * A * (+77) /* Computational class */ SIgn
11:15:22 <esowiki> [[Backshift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63437&oldid=63434 * A * (-3) /* Examples */
11:17:12 <esowiki> [[RarVM]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63438&oldid=62402 * Void * (-90)
11:17:44 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63439&oldid=63040 * A * (+203) /* Assembly language */
11:18:37 <wob_jonas> if only utf-8 has been invented earlier, we now wouldn't have this stupid difference where pathnames are byte strings on unix but utf-16 code element strings on windows
11:19:04 <esowiki> [[Backshift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63440&oldid=63437 * A * (-201) /* Inverse Truth-machine */ this does not work now...
11:20:13 <wob_jonas> also it would make utf-8 strings shorter because code points below 0x800 would be assigned more sanely
11:23:16 <esowiki> [[Talk:Backshift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63441&oldid=63436 * A * (+59) /* Modified version of the removed code from the main page */
11:25:49 <fizzie> My news feed told me the 5.2 Linux kernel includes patches where EXT4 file systems can be case-insensitive on a per-directory basis.
11:28:08 <wob_jonas> fizzie: yeah, I know. basically if they have to make a module all the ugly unicode casing rules to support windows file systems, and work as a server, then it's not much of a cost to support that for other fses too, and could help interaction with windows
11:36:33 <esowiki> [[Backshift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63442&oldid=63440 * A * (+101) /* Inverse Truth-machine */
11:37:32 <esowiki> [[Backshift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63443&oldid=63442 * A * (-13) /* Inverse Truth-machine */
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12:12:56 <esowiki> [[Backshift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63444&oldid=63443 * A * (+60) /* Examples */
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12:27:20 <esowiki> [[Backshift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63445&oldid=63444 * A * (-11) /* Infinite loop */
12:27:34 <esowiki> [[Backshift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63446&oldid=63445 * A * (+10) /* Hello, World! */
12:35:17 <esowiki> [[Backshift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63447&oldid=63446 * A * (+137) /* Examples */
12:36:32 <esowiki> [[Backshift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63448&oldid=63447 * A * (+29) /* Cat program */
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13:03:28 <esowiki> [[Backshift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63449&oldid=63448 * A * (+0) /* Hexadecimal */ backshift("backshift",16) -> "backshift"
13:04:18 <esowiki> [[Backshift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63450&oldid=63449 * A * (+0) /* Hexadecimal */ No
13:04:45 <esowiki> [[Backshift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63451&oldid=63450 * A * (+0) /* Hexadecimal */
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13:07:50 <esowiki> [[Backshift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63452&oldid=63451 * A * (+38) /* Infinite loop */
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13:52:31 <lambdabot> lexical error in string/character literal at character '\129300'
13:55:22 <int-e> > echo "🤔" | od -tx1
13:55:24 <lambdabot> lexical error in string/character literal at character '\129300'
13:55:34 <int-e> `` echo "🤔" | od -tx1
13:55:35 <HackEso> 0000000 f0 9f a4 94 0a \ 0000005
13:57:47 <int-e> I guess that's a sort of version test... ghc-8.8 accepts that
14:01:28 <esowiki> [[Backshift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63453&oldid=63452 * A * (+25)
14:04:29 <esowiki> [[Backshift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63454&oldid=63453 * A * (+110)
14:04:38 <esowiki> [[Backshift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63455&oldid=63454 * A * (+1)
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14:07:02 <esowiki> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63456&oldid=63028 * A * (+169) /* BackFlip */
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15:36:44 <arseniiv> for my part, I continue procrastinating :( :)
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15:45:29 <esowiki> [[User:Arseniiv/Subsandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63457&oldid=59251 * Arseniiv * (+226) mathematic declension
15:45:36 <myname> since i started to work with xquery, i start to hate :)
15:46:35 <arseniiv> hm does someone know is there any sufficient demand of MathJax/KaTeX/alike being added to the wiki?
15:47:19 <arseniiv> (personally, I don’t need it right now and in any foreseeable future, I think)
15:53:14 <arseniiv> myname: I meant, not as a page describing it :D
15:53:43 <arseniiv> though base TeX language seems pretty eso to me, and the way Knuth coded in it
15:54:09 <arseniiv> though I hadn’t yet read the TeX book by myself
16:15:43 <esowiki> [[Suich]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=63458 * TuxCrafting * (+3416) Created page with "Suich is an esoteric programming language created by [[User:TuxCrafting]]. = Introduction = A Suich program is made of one or more lines. The lines are all padded with nops..."
16:17:43 <esowiki> [[User:TuxCrafting]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63459&oldid=63261 * TuxCrafting * (+12)
16:18:45 <esowiki> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63460&oldid=63263 * TuxCrafting * (+12)
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18:06:25 <arseniiv> my bit-interleaving cons impl turns out to be working correctly only for 0, 0 and 1, 0
18:06:43 <arseniiv> or maybe cons is okay and fst and snd are to blame
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18:29:10 <int-e> shachaf: so contrary to my previous belief, MD5_Update with a fixed message block is *not* a random permutation.
18:41:49 <int-e> b_jonas: usenet death penalty?
18:48:26 <arseniiv> you won’t believe it, the bug was in addition definition
18:49:20 <int-e> ... oh the primitive recursion endeavor
18:50:10 <int-e> I'll believe it simply because it's the last thing I'd check ;-)
18:50:54 <arseniiv> also there are Gollum-ish names like “testConses”
18:51:33 <arseniiv> int-e: indeed, I was going top-bottom too
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18:54:04 <b_jonas> arseniiv: what are you programming where you're defining addition
18:55:31 <arseniiv> b_jonas: I was defining cons, fst and snd via that bare prim. rec. formalism, now I tested them together via Haskell
18:57:23 <arseniiv> now I am moderately confident in these defs and maybe tomorrow we’ll write a Minsky machine translation proc.
18:58:02 <arseniiv> and by “we” I mean myself probably
19:01:19 <b_jonas> arseniiv: nah, if you have cons, car and cdr working then you don't have to go through Minsky
19:01:36 <b_jonas> you can just translate any bloop program directly
19:01:45 <b_jonas> you have to turn them to pure functional
19:02:02 <arseniiv> b_jonas: maaaybe. I want to see it now, Minsky I mean
19:02:06 <b_jonas> I said minsky machine only because I wasn't sure there was a reasonable way to implement cons and car and cdr
19:02:50 <arseniiv> I’ll leave bloop translation to you B)
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20:37:32 <arseniiv> b_jonas: yeah, in the end I find Minsky translation tedious too :D
20:37:49 <arseniiv> maybe another day I will feel different
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21:04:04 <arseniiv> what examples are here of Turing tarpits being able to describe their own syntax (in a way like lisp’s (quasi|un|)quotes)? Something really minimal
21:07:54 <arseniiv> not just quotes but also some facility to meddle with them
21:09:00 <arseniiv> it seems to demand adding many entities to the syntax, and I’d like it to stay minimal
21:14:32 <b_jonas> arseniiv: uh, Befunge? no, that's not a Turing tarpit
21:15:44 <arseniiv> b_jonas: Befunge is too diverse, yes
21:16:10 <arseniiv> maybe something lambda-calculous
21:17:51 <rain1> brainfuck could almost count
21:18:05 <rain1> since you can quote bf code by just changing each char to +++++++...+++++>
21:18:45 <rain1> lambd calc and unlambda can express its own syntax with the 'closures as records trick'
21:18:53 <b_jonas> the problem with brainfuck is that if you represent the code, you can't write a straightforward eval that runs it, you need an ugly full simulation
21:19:16 <b_jonas> try unlambda or underload, there you can easily eval a tree repr of the code back to actual unquoted combinators
21:19:18 <arseniiv> it seems in a real tarpit it’s easier to write self-evaluator than to enhance the syntax and be left with something nice
21:27:16 <b_jonas> it really depends on what you want
21:29:31 <arseniiv> maybe 7, I didn’t read it solidly yet
21:31:01 <b_jonas> it's probably not a better example than underload or unlambda
21:32:08 <shachaf> int-e: Is that the compression function?
21:34:45 <HackEso> starter pokemon? ¯\(°_o)/¯
21:47:08 <b_jonas> ``` set -e; cd share/mtg; test -f MagicCompRules_20181005.txt; rm -v MagicCompRules-20181005.txt
21:47:10 <HackEso> removed 'MagicCompRules-20181005.txt'
21:47:20 <b_jonas> `fetch share/mtg/MagicCompRules_20190612.txt https://media.wizards.com/2019/downloads/MagicCompRules%2020190612.txt
21:47:21 <HackEso> 2019-06-13 21:47:21 URL:https://media.wizards.com/2019/downloads/MagicCompRules%2020190612.txt [726098/726098] -> "share/mtg/MagicCompRules_20190612.txt" [1]
21:47:51 <b_jonas> ``` set -e; cd share/mtg; tr -d \\r <MagicCompRules_20190612.txt > rules.txt
21:48:02 <b_jonas> ``` head share/mtg/rules.txt
21:48:07 <HackEso> Magic: The Gathering Comprehensive Rules \ \ These rules are effective as of June 14, 2019. \ \ Introduction \ \ This document is the ultimate authority for Magic: The Gathering® competitive game play. It consists of a series of numbered rules followed by a glossary. Many of the numbered rules are divided into subrules, and each separate rule and subrule of the game has its own number. (Note that subrules skip the letters “l” and “o” due
21:48:23 <b_jonas> ``` grep -Ei 'anteater|pangolin' share/mtg/rules.txt
21:48:24 <HackEso> 205.3m Creatures and tribals share their lists of subtypes; these subtypes are called creature types. The creature types are Advisor, Aetherborn, Ally, Angel, Antelope, Ape, Archer, Archon, Army, Artificer, Assassin, Assembly-Worker, Atog, Aurochs, Avatar, Azra, Badger, Barbarian, Basilisk, Bat, Bear, Beast, Beeble, Berserker, Bird, Blinkmoth, Boar, Bringer, Brushwagg, Camarid, Camel, Caribou, Carrier, Cat, Centaur, Cephalid, Chimera, Citizen, Cleric, Cock
21:49:28 <b_jonas> zzo38: ^ you got that one, right?
21:50:36 <b_jonas> `good dog # for the fetching
21:50:36 <HackEso> Your friends are strong. Take their help.
21:58:42 <HackEso> FireFly was a short-running but well-loved sci-fi TV series released in 2003, starring Nathan Fillion and directed and written by Joss Whedon.
21:59:21 <b_jonas> `relearn FireFly was a short-running but well-loved sci-fi TV series released in 2003, starring Nathan Fillion and directed and written by Joss Whedon. It's also a room whose gimmick is that it gets darker as you kill the enemies.
21:59:22 <HackEso> /srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: relearn: not found
21:59:29 <b_jonas> `learn FireFly was a short-running but well-loved sci-fi TV series released in 2003, starring Nathan Fillion and directed and written by Joss Whedon. It's also a room whose gimmick is that it gets darker as you kill the enemies.
21:59:30 <HackEso> Relearned 'firefly': FireFly was a short-running but well-loved sci-fi TV series released in 2003, starring Nathan Fillion and directed and written by Joss Whedon. It's also a room whose gimmick is that it gets darker as you kill the enemies.
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22:03:51 <shachaf> int-e: Is there a reason to expect it to be a permutation?
22:06:23 <int-e> shachaf: not particularly though the way it is there is probably a reset sequence for the MD5 update; a sequence of blocks that produces the same state regardless of the initial state. But it's bound to be quite long...
22:06:58 <b_jonas> https://esolangs.org/logs/2015-08-06.html#lBd
22:07:17 <b_jonas> apparently `flist was intended to be update notifications for oren's font, but I think it got forgotten
22:07:49 <b_jonas> int-e: how long though, on the order of magnitude?
22:07:53 <b_jonas> and how hard is it to find?
22:08:50 <b_jonas> ``` echo $IRC_NICK >> bin/flist
22:10:11 <b_jonas> and `llist is some joke, but I don't quite understand it https://esolangs.org/logs/2013-07-12.html#lXi
22:11:50 <b_jonas> and yeah, `mlist is some joke too https://esolangs.org/logs/2013-03-03.html#lTj
22:12:05 <int-e> It won't be feasible. I expect you can collapse the state space down to 2^64 by doing things randomly in 2^70 or so blocks (keeping track of all 2^128 states at first), and then target remaining pairs by choosing appropriate messages, using another 2^65 blocks.
22:12:34 <b_jonas> int-e: I didn't expect to be feasable, just wondering about the theoretical length
22:14:16 <b_jonas> but yeah, md5 is kind of old and not recommended
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22:17:04 <int-e> b_jonas: sha-2 shares the same property, though the state space that you'd have to collapse is much larger.
22:17:29 <int-e> 2^256 or 2^512 depending on the variant
22:17:41 <b_jonas> so the state space is the same size as the output?
22:19:19 <int-e> It depends on the variant. yes for SHA-256 and SHA-512; no for the truncated versions SHA-224, SHA-384, SHA-512/224, SHA-512/256.
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22:21:08 <int-e> Oh, also yes for MD5 and SHA-1.
22:54:19 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Sugarfi * New user account
22:56:52 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63461&oldid=63258 * Sugarfi * (+228) /* Introductions */
23:03:25 <esowiki> [[Photon]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=63462 * Sugarfi * (+140) Created page with "===Photon=== '''Photon''' is an esolang where each command has the same structure. They take the form of two arguments passed to a function."
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