< 1560731086 215886 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@host86-161-79-249.range86-161.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1560732010 229734 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1560733307 201487 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1560734051 841911 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric > 1560734772 110355 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Virage14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63554&oldid=63545 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+359) 10/* Examples */ Truth-machine > 1560735886 881933 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Virage14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63555&oldid=63554 5* 03Salpynx 5* (-11) 10/* Truth-machine */ < 1560737337 42727 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it's also a Deserter because of a certain interesting old card, a Vehicle Pilot, a Carrier Processor. creature types are Weird." but, "Vehicle" is not a creature type; it is a subtype for artifacts. < 1560738981 784357 :adu!~ajr@pool-173-73-86-145.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1560739206 803395 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1560739291 726251 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I have an idea for a language that does pattern -> replacement rewrites over undirected, unlabeled graphs. an interesting thought popped into my head: what if you could encode labeled, directed graphs on top of unlabeled, undirected graphs. < 1560739339 68113 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :was wondering if anybody knew anything about that encoding process if it's even been done before. < 1560739382 738645 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about that. < 1560739397 176110 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If someone know, I hope to learn too. < 1560739447 846684 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :my focus right now is on the transition from labeled -> unlabeled. < 1560739489 105022 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :my current thought is you have to encode the label topologically, so if you have a finite set of labels, you could number them and encode each one as the complete graph K(N+3). < 1560739508 861739 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then just have the first specified vertex be the "anchor" to connect to other labeled nodes. < 1560739529 116217 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this'd get very very messy because those aren't uniquely identifiable unless you also have a similar encoding for edges. < 1560740104 137005 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1560740225 440547 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: I wonder if you could label vertices with unique unlabelled graph tags, and double all edges, so if you were on a vertex with two edges you are on an edge, if there are more than two, a vertex with a label < 1560740288 156346 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A-B => -A-*-B- < 1560740315 405606 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that, yeah. you'd need a way of generating some unique "tag" from a given label, though. < 1560740334 443473 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that also assume you can have multiple edges between two nodes? < 1560740336 622480 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e a multigraph? < 1560740378 118428 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might need a label-tag tag :) to id where the label is attached < 1560740394 806400 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind-bending. :confusion: < 1560740411 781090 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was this article series, tales from the tinkerpop, that covered this in a cheeky way, lemme find it... < 1560740420 323179 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.datastax.com/dev/blog/tales-from-the-tinkerpop < 1560740442 590942 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: perhaps something like https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/ggg.png (a sketch, I have not yet tried to poke holes into it... but the idea is that this encodes a DAG with A labeld with 2, B labeled with 3, and an edge A -> B)? < 1560740469 658526 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah! < 1560740489 580158 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's exactly what I had in mind. < 1560740577 179888 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was also a neat stackexchange answer on converting directed edges to undirected edges, and the solution looked really slick and kinda funny. < 1560740605 727757 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://i.stack.imgur.com/OxaLX.png < 1560740613 398085 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the original answer: https://cs.stackexchange.com/questions/19744/converting-a-digraph-to-an-undirected-graph-in-a-reversible-way < 1560740774 312388 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tweaked the image slightly to be more suggestive ;-) < 1560740820 46340 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :diagrammatic reasoning, eat your heart out. XD < 1560740840 787850 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you want an arrow semantically? here you go." < 1560740979 384906 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question I have is how does this hold up for larger, more complex graphs. < 1560741049 557488 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :A -> B, B -> C, C -> A for example. if I wanted to match on that "shape" regardless of pattern, I could potentially end up matching one of the labels unless I used an explicit edge structure. < 1560741102 220123 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :how'd you make that diagram btw, int-e? < 1560741120 827358 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My idea of a "labelled" unlabled square: A-*-B-*-C-*-D-*-A , where * is an edge mid-vertex, and A has a complete triangle graph attached, B a comple square, C a complete petagon, and D a complete hexagonal graph attached < 1560741168 245988 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it works just like that (mainly because all original edges are substuted by something of length 3, so the K_3 and K_4 marking the label subgraph are recognizable. But maybe the label nodes should have another appendix so that the path from the K_3 to the K_4 can be recognized < 1560741228 677825 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, if I want to match on any edges that're incoming to B, I'd just match on `-> B`, and that'd get translated down to that larger undirected and unlabeled pattern. < 1560741261 913200 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :interestiiing... < 1560741267 215176 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e's way looks like it will use a lot less edges than mine, although complete-graph tags are are probably not strictly necessary, they are just easy to ensure they are unique and can't be confused for edges < 1560741287 807625 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :another way would be to use loops or something equivalent. < 1560741298 222838 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: what'cha mean by appendix? < 1560741313 470967 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :this has really sparked my curiosity. < 1560741343 787319 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: I've changed the picture once more < 1560741357 885335 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohohoho wow. < 1560741364 494629 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it really looks like a "backbone" now. < 1560741445 224895 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a centipede of course < 1560741490 568918 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you encoding path length in this? < 1560741505 275553 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that what I'm seeing? :o < 1560741508 693047 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1560741522 878132 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the 4, 5, 6 then? < 1560741548 247770 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I was imagining a larger graph with 7 labels < 1560741563 134739 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhhh okay, that makes sense. < 1560741563 179807 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a random numbers < 1560741616 623680 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... this should work if the original graph has no loops < 1560741630 921445 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :loops are problematic because the edge would be a K_3 then < 1560741649 515907 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, two K_3's sharing an edge) < 1560741659 323925 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. and any arrangement of labeled nodes in a complete graph with undirected edges would technically form a "label" in the middle. < 1560741672 781428 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd have to have edge markers for both directed and undirected edges. < 1560741707 139096 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that detail should be fixable without fundamentally changing the construction < 1560741737 421028 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dig it. this has given me motivation to start implementing the aforementioned language. :) < 1560741775 665500 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks! < 1560741811 89150 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be neat to shove a complex graph from something like RDF through this translator and dump it into graphviz. < 1560741845 148497 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I would be very much surprised if the result was recognizable < 1560741868 248709 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :by nothing other than a machine. :P < 1560741870 51338 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IME graphviz needs a lot of prodding for all but the simplest of graphs) < 1560741891 971900 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... it doesn't do fitting and placement well. < 1560742416 774614 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :salpynx: I do wonder whether people have thought about how to do this optimally < 1560742428 93488 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: I assume you know about https://esolangs.org/wiki/Kolmogorov_machine ? I've been trying to collate resources and existing graph rewriting languages there < 1560742610 160151 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I came up with a numbering system for eodermdrome that was less wasteful than K(n+3), but it was also trying to fit into eodermdrome's 26 symbol limit. I'd have to dig out the notes as I never quite finished that code < 1560742702 688053 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: btw I have thought about such things before... I wanted to use graph isomorphism tools (like nauty or Traces) for isomorphisms of more structured things (term rewrite systems, specifically). Then I learned that those tools actually support labeled graphs... < 1560742716 156852 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(vertex-labeled) < 1560742741 328876 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :salpynx: I've gone down that road before, I could barely find any info on them. :\ < 1560742778 999355 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: hah. yak shaving at its finest. ;) < 1560742937 582435 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: and this is quite inherently so; one key feature of those tools is that they partition the sets of vertices if they've found a way to discriminate between them (e.g., nodes of degree 3 never map to nodes of degree 4). Labels are encoded just by providing an initial partition... < 1560742970 451699 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting, nauty and Traces... < 1560743106 653141 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's kind of the idea we've been toying with, isn't it? only the partitions are easier because you're slicing away complete graphs which are pretty self-contained. < 1560743370 421058 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: I'm interested in what you come up with for a new graph rewriting language, good luck, and feel free to update here. I'm definitely up for testing and trying to use it for something. < 1560743470 253954 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :salpynx: thanks! it's actually a pretty trivial language... just a list of edges (A - B) on the left-hand side of a -> to match a bunch of nodes, and a list of edges on the right-hand side that denote a replacement pattern. < 1560743481 681026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1560743490 652327 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :only supports undirected, unlabeled graphs. debating on allowing loops. < 1560743498 78688 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :salpynx: you misunderstand how eodermdrome works, it doesn't have a symbol limit, it doesn't have symbols at all < 1560743523 288802 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the symbols are only used to describe the shape of the graph, and not stored in the graph < 1560743525 997405 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: two more: saucy and bliss. the "au" was for automorphisms? < 1560743541 185027 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, e.g., a Y shape can be described as abcbd, but you can later match that same shape as efgfh < 1560743544 743069 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: two more graph isomorphism programs, that is < 1560743545 244995 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: nice, I have some research to do. :) < 1560743589 10329 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want a symbol-equivalent, and most programs do, you do it with weirdly-shaped bits of graph that don't appear elsewhere < 1560743596 945758 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: IIRC traces is the newest and overall the one with the best performance < 1560743631 593844 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting, I wonder what it uses for representing graphs internally. < 1560743640 382200 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb! < 1560743793 270772 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I meant there is a 26 symbol limit in describing a graph shape, so whatever weirdly-shaped graph you want to refer to can only have 26 nodes max < 1560743886 29712 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I was trying to come up with a number system of <26 node graph shapes < 1560743934 372320 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :_/\_ < 1560743940 91876 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric : \/\ < 1560743945 208947 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :_/\_ < 1560743965 918077 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric : \/\ < 1560744001 963492 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :was how I remember them going < 1560744005 528434 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: Hmm, that triggered a vague memory; IIRC, the "s" is "saucy" is for "sparse", because originally "nauty" used a dense representation (adjacency matrix). < 1560744064 629305 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: but I believe there's nothing fancy going on there; it's either adjacency lists or adjacency matrices. < 1560744070 897664 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :salpynx: right, I see < 1560744085 99710 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qdwaerdwlhhtouqd QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1560744093 79524 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is, I believe, a limit to the number of distinct Eodermdrome programs that can be written < 1560744122 859443 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning that it's ℒ-complete rather than Turing-complete in the traditional sense < 1560744136 213521 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn ((a -> b) -> a) -> a < 1560744136 468930 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- f cannot be realized. < 1560744167 993438 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn (a -> (b -> c)) -> (b -> (a -> c)) < 1560744168 289227 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :f a b c = a c b < 1560744179 332869 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn a -> (a -> a) < 1560744179 677243 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :f _ a = a < 1560744207 480335 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn a -> b -> (a -> a -> b) < 1560744207 694384 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :f _ a _ _ = a < 1560744216 972731 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, that's not what I meant for that last one < 1560744229 284615 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn a -> ((a -> a -> b) -> b) -> b < 1560744229 529951 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- f cannot be realized. < 1560744250 36991 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn a -> (a -> a -> b) -> b < 1560744250 304201 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :f a b = b a a < 1560744252 40413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1560744282 89484 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so Haskell has exchange, weakening, and contraction, but not the law of the excluded middle < 1560744313 669607 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the most complex eodermdrome progam I have written to a state that (mostly) works is a increment / decrement / output interpreter for the joke language +-= , it has an accumulator and outputs the decimal value when instructed to < 1560744352 586949 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, you're most of the way to a Deadfish interp there, aren't you? < 1560744369 288423 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it store the value internally in decimal or in unary? < 1560744377 115772 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/hornc/eodermdrome-examples/tree/master/%2B-%3D < 1560744423 350332 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unary for each decimal placeholder < 1560744483 950484 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right, so unary-coded-decimal with a fixed number of digits < 1560744547 894825 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I haven't finished extending it to 4 digits, but I think I've shown the techinque which can be extended to more and more digits < 1560744612 84758 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess an arbitrarily-many-digits counter would look something like a tape machine < 1560744648 788698 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not spent time thinking how to implement squaring to bring it to Deadfish, but implementing an accumulator was a first step in making a simple game to track a score or something < 1560744802 627296 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1560744875 672578 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1560744878 316198 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thinking about graph-rewriting languages in terms of string-rewriting (Thue or ///) gets things done, but I'd love to figure out a way of being less 1D with them. That would be like 2d string rewrting < 1560744914 520824 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, there's a gap in the market for a good 2D string rewriting esolang < 1560744931 552567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tempted to add a few 2D primitives to Precongition, but I think I should probably implement the 1D version first :-D < 1560744936 220442 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Precognition < 1560745030 719727 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not looked at Precognition (yet!) < 1560745081 738352 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( But you already know what it is? ) < 1560745237 867695 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :reminds me that I recently had the idea of a regex version of Slashes, to be called 'Rashers': 🥓foo(.*)🥓$1bar🥓 , but REGEXY seems to already provide that < 1560745686 892414 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously? MS uses back-rashers while everyone uses forward-rashers? https://emojipedia.org/bacon/ < 1560745992 871100 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :salpynx: IIRC the baguette emoji also goes in the same direction as the platform's directory separator < 1560746003 476122 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ... < 1560746014 554842 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hilarious < 1560746091 911114 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming no standard for emoji direction, something like this was likely to happen by chance, surely? < 1560746109 355483 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although once it was noticed, ideally people would keep to the same property intentionally < 1560746161 58071 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, it does look like its deliberate, they all follow the dir separator direction < 1560746383 368496 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I'm very happy that pretty much all the Eodermdrome programs I've seen go to some effort to make their graph definitions meaningful or at least pronounceable < 1560746426 840541 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the comment syntax was designed to try to make that possible < 1560746555 716369 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1560746628 664127 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1560746987 221921 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had fun doing the eodermdrome truth machine, although it probably gives a very misleading idea of the syntax. I had to modify the interpreters to ignore punctuation as in the spec < 1560747022 645683 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :back. now to read back! < 1560747034 337119 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least that bit of the spec did get implemented eventually < 1560747064 257675 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be a shame if it ended up like Underload (where there was a bit of the spec that nobody ever implemented, despite there being a large number of implementations written, and nowadays it isn't treated as part of the language) < 1560748432 254109 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1560748605 235474 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1560750502 278933 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1560750518 146293 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1560751552 695591 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1560752690 500858 :adu!~ajr@pool-173-73-86-145.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1560754134 757185 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit > 1560761384 153381 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63556&oldid=63464 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+13) 10/* Non-alphabetic */ add  < 1560761428 301610 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEso: `unicode ق < 1560761450 248023 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode ق < 1560761451 192346 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+0642 ARABIC LETTER QAF \ UTF-8: d9 82 UTF-16BE: 0642 Decimal: ق \ ق \ Category: Lo (Letter, Other) \ Bidi: AL (Right-to-Left Arabic) < 1560761486 849881 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode Ю < 1560761487 861653 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+042E CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER YU \ UTF-8: d0 ae UTF-16BE: 042e Decimal: Ю \ Ю (ю) \ Lowercase: U+044E \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) < 1560762298 324959 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1560762330 609371 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, it's a pity especially as Underload is so small < 1560762346 919981 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, sorry, the Vehicle is my mistake. < 1560762429 311076 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1560762673 129694 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Question. Suppose I have a C macro that in one implementation, evaluates some of its arguments multiple times. In another implementation, this isn't necessary. You could consider putc in ancient compilers as an example. < 1560762720 173102 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the latter kind of interpreter, can it make sense to make the macro evaluate the argument twice just so that we can more easily catch nonportable code that assumes that the argument would be evaluated only once? < 1560762741 347033 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not asking this for putc, but for a library API I'm going to define. < 1560763302 95835 :stux|away!stux@cosmo.lunarshells.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1560763452 239991 :stux|away!stux@2a01:270:2050:1337::1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1560763455 320680 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I do understand that the putc example is a bit of a stretch, because not many people will write code like { int i = 0; while (i < nfiles) putc(c, file[i++]); } < 1560763701 77034 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but `while (*src != 'x') putc(*src++, file);` is kind of plausible. < 1560763755 788732 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't have an opinion on evaluate-twice-just-to-catch-bugs. It would be nice if it could be "warn on expressions with side effects", but that's not really feasible.) < 1560763760 574564 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: sure, but it's the file handle argument that can be evaluated more than once < 1560763800 313266 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, apparently. I thought it was just any argument. < 1560763827 759513 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that depends on which macro obviously < 1560764732 124751 :rain1_!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 NICK :rain1 < 1560770377 202600 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1560772605 249925 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 JOIN :#esoteric < 1560773907 146885 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1560775643 569503 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :has someone meddled with the fundamental constants of the universe again some time within the last two months? or perhaps with the isotope ratios of the Earth's water supply? because it seems like the microwave oven is working somewhat faster than it used to < 1560775687 857475 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used to take 140 seconds to heat up my soup, now it takes only 120 seconsd < 1560775796 900111 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Quit: reboot < 1560776545 618004 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm is it less soup? < 1560776567 994888 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: dunno. it could be that the temperature before heating is higher, since it's now summer. < 1560776587 593365 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that also makes sense, if it doesn't come from a fridge. < 1560776590 928464 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that I wait less between the microwave finishing heating and checking the temperature < 1560776626 695913 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway in answer to your question... I seriously doubt it < 1560776668 532838 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'd have seen more infrastructure failures at the very least... but I guess chemistry would be different as well, including biochemsitry, so we'd all be dead by now. < 1560776714 605072 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( that would be some hard-core evolutionary pressure though. ) < 1560777141 861200 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1560777559 190800 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for it was only a candle… < 1560777618 269380 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is anyone adding magnetic field sensors to LCD and recreating the psychedelic color effects that CRTs had? Kids are missing out on so much these days... < 1560779520 689767 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: we have a museum here that has a CRT exhibited with a strong magnet next to it specifically for kids to try that < 1560779528 782368 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it had one back when CRTs were normal < 1560779537 441629 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't been there in a while so I don't know if they still have it < 1560779572 628518 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :magnetic field sensors would be tricky because you'd need several < 1560780223 975721 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1560782177 527449 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: once I overdone that and the demagnetizing system didn’t overcame that fully in a single run and I was horrified < 1560782202 159470 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then a couple more offs and ons made everything normal < 1560782257 946017 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: the one exhibited in the museum had a warning not to try that at home, claiming that the particular television that they have exhibited there is more resistant to that sort of abuse than normal home televisions < 1560782281 577829 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also when I played this way I was concerned that I could be irradiated with electrons < 1560782307 718730 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I only recently understood how the magic color filter of CRTs actually works, because no book actually explains that, and it seems a priori impossible < 1560782407 474707 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trick is that both the position and the direction of the electron beam can vary, the different colored beams have different points of origin, and the color mask at the screen has long thin parallel holes such that rays in some direction can pass through but in other directions can't, so eg. only rays from the bottom source can pass through to w < 1560782407 985982 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here the screen is painted with red glowy material < 1560782476 308941 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this wasn't obvious to me because cameras and color TFT displays don't need such magic, they just have individual pixels right behind colored windows < 1560782496 279632 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pixels being a light sensor in cameras or an LCD segment in a TFT display < 1560782530 713404 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I’ve read about that thing in a book on electronics and DIY radiothings, though it should seem like magic anyway, the accuracy of things’ placement and all < 1560782542 183710 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the books only told about the tiny holes and three different colors of glowy material in the CRT screen, but not that they were long holes to filter by direction of the ray < 1560782603 773106 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, some of it is still magic of course, like how the three beams can hit close to the same place of the monitor accurately enough, plus the part that decodes the luma and chroma signals, including the delay line < 1560782629 672988 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I knew about the three rays. > 1560782647 890860 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Palaiologos 5* 10New user account < 1560782687 735081 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don’t remember what was exactly in that book, but I decided then that it filters what could get to where. Though I don’t seem to remember that the holes are long < 1560782706 803367 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for accuracy, given that the whole thing is inside a huge glass jar that is entirely closed airtight, yes, that is also impossible in a ship-in-a-bottle way < 1560782722 369205 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Why else would you need a mask in front? B&W TV's don't have that. But don't ask me where I learned that... maybe that russian book about modern computer hardware from the 80s?) < 1560782789 691769 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: well the books made it sound like the mask is thin, and the ray is somehow synchronized with the mask so it knows when it hits which color, like hitting the red hole then the green hole alternatingly < 1560782791 967922 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: hmm maybe there's more to that trick than I thought. < 1560782807 494119 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that would make more sense to me a priori, only < 1560782834 730946 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can tell that's not how it works because color CRT computer monitors have an adjustment knob to fine tune the horizontal position and size of the image, < 1560782844 176451 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the mask was thin but at a certain distance from the display surface. But maybe that doesn't actually work. < 1560782859 423212 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it can work in different resolutions that aren't just multiples of a base resolution (though it certainly doubles scan lines in low res modes too) < 1560782864 69305 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: same < 1560782871 344755 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yes, that's probably what happens > 1560782872 178104 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63557&oldid=63524 5* 03Palaiologos 5* (+312) 10 < 1560782881 563370 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is that it cares about the direction of the ray < 1560782882 386706 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I thought not so far, maybe millimeters away < 1560782888 912076 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :two thin masks is fine < 1560782893 821343 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that I knew > 1560782907 975749 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Seed14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63558&oldid=50067 5* 03Palaiologos 5* (-217) 10Seed is turing complete. < 1560782919 142616 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, also the reaction to magnets wouldn't make sense that way < 1560782933 411687 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, the reaction to magnets still doesn't make sense this way either < 1560782954 231809 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes even more sense if you realize that switching these rays on and off quickly is a huge challenge, as is focusing them tightly... which is why CRT monitors were usually quite blurry. < 1560782966 309952 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven’t really thought much about what one can deduce by that magnetic experiment < 1560782975 571940 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/by/from < 1560782995 70766 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: right... though I'm not so sold, so by that time they weren't too blurry, they had a decent image < 1560783002 723619 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/sold/old/ < 1560783003 247416 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: the magnets bend the rays < 1560783041 592390 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I think they magnetize some parts of the screen < 1560783046 837199 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe even the mask < 1560783059 830242 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(those electrons are not all that fast... I wonder how fast they actually are... < 1560783060 853804 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: most of the blurryness and errors actually came from the VGA cable by then, not the monitor itself < 1560783068 509025 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even that is much better than composite signal < 1560783094 170130 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder, can one do quantum-mechanical experiments on a CRT or oscilloscope?.. < 1560783125 443859 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: sure, you do the experiment and have the computer display the result on the CRT < 1560783131 10283 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they say electrons are a hard material to make even the double-slit experiment < 1560783131 924417 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :("not all that fast" will still be close to the speed of light because elctrons are so ridiculously light) < 1560783144 875401 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :much harder than photons < 1560783166 254138 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric : arseniiv: sure, you do the experiment and have the computer display the result on the CRT => (rofl) < 1560783199 370025 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I imagine that the main difficulty is that you need a near vacuum. < 1560783207 790209 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, did you think computers with CRT were only for video games, and scientist had to use hardcopy terminals? < 1560783219 87439 :adu!~ajr@pool-173-73-86-145.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1560783240 147233 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm had someone made a muon CRT, such a useless thing < 1560783297 457700 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :muonochrome television^W^W < 1560783300 169162 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'm starting to experiment with Consumer society, made a dumb proof of concept interpreter, tried to name a hello world file, and now trying to figure out what file extension I should use for Consumer society files, since ".cs" is used for csharp source files < 1560783339 140713 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah, how not to explain stuff: "A black-and-white TV has a single electron gun, while a color TV needs three guns because each pixel on the screen is made of a red, a green and a blue dot." < 1560783403 999518 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( let's shoot 150 red electrons, 120 blue electrons and 30 green ones. ) < 1560783481 702603 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1560783560 202626 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should thank heavens those aren’t proton guns, as the rays could easily cross each other somewhere near the mask < 1560783614 251486 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though in that case CRT-bearing machines would be the happy ones having not a single ghost in them < 1560783660 714436 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least not having them in a CRT part, specifically. But that ensures almost no ghosts sufficiently near CRT too < 1560783693 362466 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh there is a shower outside, suddenly < 1560783716 608152 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it gone so dark < 1560783739 637786 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have no proton CRT to fend away possible ghosts < 1560783909 989441 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I have to write some basic arithmetic, such as addition and less-than comparison > 1560784187 750760 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Palaiologos14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=63559 5* 03Palaiologos 5* (+816) 10Created page with "Hello! I'm creator of various to brainfuck compilers and esoteric language theoretican. My work includes: * Izmit compiler series. Izmit 1 and Izmit 2 were partially lost whe..." > 1560784196 439822 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Palaiologos14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63560&oldid=63559 5* 03Palaiologos 5* (-4) 10 < 1560786239 733374 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1560786591 417611 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0008786e426f90ed8a.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1560788973 110196 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I played GURPS game recently; this time my character went back to his home and then four weeks later something else happen so we have to go somewhere else, again. < 1560790222 185096 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-arnutznyxaoxsgli JOIN :#esoteric < 1560791542 49740 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-71.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1560791727 143678 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1560791782 747747 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1560792511 308687 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0008786e426f90ed8a.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1560793037 822126 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-71.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1167 < 1560793038 539682 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1167: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas < 1560793367 862984 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doughnuts are the devil < 1560793399 191813 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am so into them when they are freshly-cooked and present < 1560793404 846610 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is bad < 1560793424 574694 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a sin, though I’m not religious at all < 1560793546 426008 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tfdmaggxqsyvxaei JOIN :#esoteric < 1560794395 977242 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :why's it bad ? < 1560794956 997923 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it’s an existential taint < 1560795048 207208 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it’s said that something in freshly-fried dough irritates stomach < 1560795061 517332 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially for me :( < 1560795078 781197 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope nothing will occur, though < 1560795120 774733 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have eaten only a part of them and will hold myself in check < 1560795151 12903 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: ^ < 1560795199 855482 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1560795273 685196 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1560795305 325647 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps you can eat only a part of all of them < 1560795352 602769 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, i wonder whether one can bake doughnuts in the oven < 1560795364 868916 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may be tasty too < 1560795407 781867 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, one could try putting them in boiling soup < 1560795471 951414 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be a soup with these things I don’t know the name of < 1560795481 333364 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :knödel ? < 1560795501 458208 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like this < 1560795505 205655 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i want to make a soup. it's your fault ;) < 1560795517 488176 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a soup is at least less sinuous < 1560795524 50404 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or how do you put it < 1560795530 42793 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sinister < 1560795535 246513 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :@wn sinuous < 1560795536 693053 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** "sinuous" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" < 1560795536 817392 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :sinuous < 1560795536 898483 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : adj 1: curved or curving in and out; "wiggly lines" [syn: < 1560795536 898539 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : {sinuate}, {sinuous}, {wiggly}] < 1560795549 603128 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sincere < 1560795556 248613 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is < 1560795566 323259 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of those are sins, you know < 1560795572 326494 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-71.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :do make a soup then < 1560795583 136307 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-71.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also "sinful" < 1560795592 426723 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: ah so I’ll will use any of them next time < 1560795603 760803 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: is it a borrowing? < 1560795621 218098 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-71.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1560795625 953179 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-71.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, don't borrow the soup < 1560795626 410749 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/a borrowing/a recent borrowing < 1560795635 851267 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, “sinful” < 1560795642 558386 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/borrowing/loan word/ ? < 1560795665 232913 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1560795678 105001 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though the dictionary says this goes too < 1560795814 258391 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a009192f9d74679ca3f.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1560795830 512580 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION . o O ( "On 19 October 2016, relics of Seraphim were launched into space aboard the Soyuz MS-02." ) < 1560796382 78442 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-71.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which Seraphim? Seraphim a christian saint, or Seraphim a previous spacecraft? < 1560796410 308627 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-71.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1560796417 39582 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-71.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was no Seraphim spacecraft < 1560796422 669073 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-71.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must mean a saint then < 1560796753 419529 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Серафим Саровский, yes < 1560797269 610189 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-71.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why I thought it was a spacecraft. Soviet spacecrafts actually had simple names like "peace" and stuff. Maybe because of the fictional space station "Ark Angel" in the Anthony Horowitz book. < 1560797355 869895 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-71.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the American ones that had fancy names like that. < 1560797640 342361 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone needs to name their one Hypothenuse < 1560797801 111749 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-71.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone needs to name their son Pedrillo < 1560798120 249579 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION . o O ( "Hypo the muse" ) < 1560798711 733823 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-71.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? seraphim < 1560798712 808754 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :seraphim? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1560799985 524510 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :серафими многоꙮчитїи < 1560801001 962884 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-arnutznyxaoxsgli QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1560801041 738195 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I forgor about ꙮ > 1560802976 468863 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Cortex14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63561&oldid=62387 5* 03Cortex 5* (+31) 10 > 1560802991 621462 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Cortex14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63562&oldid=63561 5* 03Cortex 5* (+2) 10 < 1560803543 702159 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tfdmaggxqsyvxaei QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1560803643 215854 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1560805306 675435 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a009192f9d74679ca3f.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1560806540 625842 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-71.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? people who taneb is not < 1560806541 664256 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a rabbi, Mark Zuckerberg, James Bond. Pending approval: Shigeru Miyamoto. < 1560806550 895807 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-71.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ Is that still pending approval? Taneb: have you rejected that yet? < 1560806854 662600 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-71.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? spoilers < 1560806855 775156 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :spoilers? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1560806857 637871 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-71.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? spoiler < 1560806858 688279 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :spoiler? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1560806918 304210 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-71.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? rogue one < 1560806919 484291 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any regular who gives the slightest Rogue One spoiler shall be hunted down in real life and have their intestines removed through their eye sockets. Members would not be exempt if they existed, which they don't. < 1560806955 858688 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg rogue one < 1560806958 218434 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :9994:2016-12-17 le/rn Rogue One//Any regular who gives the slightest Rogue One spoiler shall be hunted down in real life and have their intestines removed through their eye sockets. Members would not be exempt if they existed, which they don\'t. < 1560806966 622174 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems obsolete < 1560807215 852694 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-71.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? people who taneb is not < 1560807216 914831 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-71.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 993 < 1560807216 985612 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a rabbi, Mark Zuckerberg, James Bond. Pending approval: Shigeru Miyamoto. < 1560807217 693073 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :993) I've also pretended to be Queen Elizabeth the first, but that was a desperate plea for attention < 1560807282 736857 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-71.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I edit the entry to say he's also not Queen Elizabeth the first? > 1560808020 457391 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Gamer14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63563&oldid=60500 5* 03Gamer 5* (-141) 10 > 1560808050 407031 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Gamer14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63564&oldid=63563 5* 03Gamer 5* (+17) 10 < 1560808329 494804 :rodgort!~rodgort@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1560808374 678566 :rodgort!~rodgort@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1560808575 370582 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-71.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` perl -pi -e's/Bond\K/, Queen Elizabeth the first/' wisdom/p*aneb* < 1560808577 523186 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1560808582 839034 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-71.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? people who taneb is not < 1560808583 972296 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a rabbi, Mark Zuckerberg, James Bond, Queen Elizabeth the first. Pending approval: Shigeru Miyamoto. < 1560808623 503241 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-71.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1560808917 788734 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hum < 1560808926 334935 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hwrl people who taneb is not < 1560808929 383836 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/log/tip/wisdom/people%20who%20taneb%20is%20not < 1560809005 185394 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? _͙̣̿̊ͣ̉ͣͪ͒̓̐͊̏ͫ̓̚̚�͎͎͙̪̪̝̖͉̟̭̻̥̫̗̱̗͍̳̦̮̟̲̥͔҉̕͜͠͠҉̡̧̛͞ < 1560809006 278612 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :_͙̣̿̊ͣ̉ͣͪ͒̓̐͊̏ͫ̓̚̚�͎͎͙̪̪̝̖͉̟̭̻̥̫̗̱̗͍̳̦̮̟̲̥͔҉̕͜͠͠҉̡̧̛͞ ? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1560809172 899701 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a saddening blog post: https://community.idera.com/developer-tools/b/blog/posts/multicast-events-using-generics < 1560809196 975963 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all going smoothly... and then there's the implementation of InternalAdd & co. < 1560809259 817528 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Maybe Delphi should have an unsafeCoerce to avoid dropping down to the assembly level for this. This was 2008 though; I wonder whether things have changed in the meantime.) < 1560809305 208926 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1560809333 645236 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :N2263 is fascinating: http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n2263.htm (it's a proposal for actually sorting out the rules in C for what you can and can't do with pointer values) < 1560809340 34406 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome ais523 < 1560809341 185103 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) < 1560809620 280410 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm "if and only if". < 1560809684 24074 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :("if and only if" does not work well with side conditions. I'm looking at the proposal for §6.5.9#6) < 1560811627 135115 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1560813398 792301 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1560813660 452009 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :that graph manipulation language that was mentioned yesterday has morphed into visual and textual forms. :) < 1560814880 683180 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1560815012 967610 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.229.64 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW I was thinking about that chemical language idea and it occurred to me that it’s reasonable to add an ambient temperature which can be changed in reactions, slowly goes to 0 otherwise, and influences stability of different bonds (so that some will simply break if the temperature is high enough)