←2019-06-24 2019-06-25 2019-06-26→ ↑2019 ↑all
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00:06:43 <shachaf> int-e: Anyway isn't intelligence just optimization or something?
00:07:32 <int-e> s/optimization/rationalization/
00:12:22 <int-e> I don't know. I suspect "intelligence" is largely a phenomological concept. So we have various signs of intelligence... solving problems of various degrees of complexity.
00:12:43 <int-e> Learning from failure, stuff like that.
00:13:28 <int-e> Going to bed before the sun rises.
00:13:37 <shachaf> @time int-e
00:13:37 <lambdabot> Local time for int-e is Tue Jun 25 02:13:37 2019
00:13:47 <shachaf> Golly.
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00:25:51 <shachaf> `5 w
00:25:53 <HackEso> 1/1:smdh//SMDH is short for "Send My Daughter Home". \ québec//Attache ta tuque avec d'la broche; y fait frette icitte! \ jerk//Jerk is the integral of snap. \ ic//ic what you did there. \ lettuce//Lettuce is a vegetable with two dressings, join and meet.
00:26:01 <shachaf> `dowg smdh
00:26:07 <HackEso> 11543:2018-05-04 <int-̈e> learn SMDH is short for "Send My Daughter Home".
00:26:27 <shachaf> `slwd smdh//s/r /rs /
00:26:29 <HackEso> smdh//SMDH is short fors "Send My Daughter Home".
00:26:35 <shachaf> oopse
00:26:37 <shachaf> `revert
00:26:38 <HackEso> Done.
00:26:43 <shachaf> `slwd smdh//s/er /ers /
00:26:45 <HackEso> smdh//SMDH is short for "Send My Daughters Home".
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01:16:37 <esowiki> [[Dynamic Contraction System]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=63650 * A * (+543) Created page with "[[Dynamic Contraction System]] is a system for golfing programming languages that are not specifically built for golfing in == System Description == In order to help people go..."
01:23:10 <esowiki> [[Dynamic Contraction System]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63651&oldid=63650 * A * (+668) Put everything in my mind into this page. I will extend this later.
01:26:57 <esowiki> [[Dynamic Contraction System]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63652&oldid=63651 * A * (+494) Finally
01:34:49 <esowiki> [[Dynamic Contraction System]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63653&oldid=63652 * A * (+805)
01:42:43 <esowiki> [[Dynamic Contraction System]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63654&oldid=63653 * A * (+131)
01:56:10 <esowiki> [[Dynamic Contraction System]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63655&oldid=63654 * A * (+554) Reference
01:59:11 <esowiki> [[Dynamic Contraction System]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63656&oldid=63655 * A * (+515) /* Command reference */
02:01:28 <esowiki> [[Dynamic Contraction System]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63657&oldid=63656 * A * (+176)
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06:28:00 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63658&oldid=63142 * A * (+257)
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06:28:59 <esowiki> [[DCS]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=63659 * A * (+40) Redirected page to [[Dynamic Contraction System]]
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07:42:54 <shachaf> `? gregor
07:42:56 <HackEso> Gregor took forty cakes. He took 40 cakes. That's as many as four tens. And that's terrible.
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08:00:12 <int-e> shachaf: the sun didn't rise at 2:13 ;-)
08:01:09 <int-e> (5:20 is what the Internet claims for Innsbruck)
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08:56:24 <esowiki> [[Dynamic Contraction System]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63660&oldid=63657 * A * (+72)
09:00:56 <esowiki> [[Dynamic Contraction System]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63661&oldid=63660 * A * (+260)
09:09:51 <esowiki> [[Dynamic Contraction System]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63662&oldid=63661 * A * (+182) /* Examples */ I found that this is way too complex. I will try my best to simplify the syntax.
09:11:37 <esowiki> [[Dynamic Contraction System]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63663&oldid=63662 * A * (+176) /* Syntactic sugars */
09:12:20 <esowiki> [[Dynamic Contraction System]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63664&oldid=63663 * A * (-17) /* Truth-machine */
09:13:59 <esowiki> [[Dynamic Contraction System]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63665&oldid=63664 * A * (-85) /* DCS compiler to BIT */
09:14:22 <esowiki> [[Dynamic Contraction System]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63666&oldid=63665 * A * (+41) /* DCS compiler to BIT */
09:16:50 <esowiki> [[Dynamic Contraction System]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63667&oldid=63666 * A * (+3) /* Syntactic sugars */
09:18:14 <Taneb> int-e: ah but when was dawn?
09:18:51 <esowiki> [[Dynamic Contraction System]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63668&oldid=63667 * A * (-5) /* Command reference */
09:19:05 <shachaf> Haneb
09:19:09 <esowiki> [[Dynamic Contraction System]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63669&oldid=63668 * A * (+33) /* Syntactic sugars */
09:19:17 <shachaf> Are you Cambridging it up or something?
09:19:29 <esowiki> [[Dynamic Contraction System]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63670&oldid=63669 * A * (+17) /* Syntactic sugars */
09:20:23 <esowiki> [[Dynamic Contraction System]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63671&oldid=63670 * A * (+125) /* Examples */
09:20:59 <esowiki> [[Dynamic Contraction System]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63672&oldid=63671 * A * (+43) /* Syntactic sugars */
09:21:21 <int-e> Taneb: which one?
09:21:38 <shachaf> the one in england hth
09:22:12 <esowiki> [[Dynamic Contraction System]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63673&oldid=63672 * A * (+114) /* Syntactic sugars */
09:22:39 <int-e> Taneb: astronomical dawn: 2:19; nautical dawn: 3:43; civil dawn: 4:38.
09:22:56 <shachaf> there is nothing civil about dawn
09:23:00 <shachaf> particularly not at 04:38
09:23:16 <int-e> "Civil dawn is the moment when the geometric center of the Sun is 6 degrees below the horizon in the morning."
09:23:40 <int-e> I do agree with the sentiment.
09:24:41 <esowiki> [[Dynamic Contraction System]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63674&oldid=63673 * A * (+161) /* Examples */
09:25:02 <shachaf> int-e: How's the MD5 thing going?
09:25:18 <shachaf> Do you know what I should read to know about differential paths and things?
09:25:32 <Taneb> Dawn was at 3:50 here :(
09:25:34 <int-e> It's not going anywhere right now.
09:25:38 <Taneb> (Civil dawn)
09:26:04 <int-e> Taneb: I suspect you're further North. And East. But are you in the same time zone?
09:26:45 <esowiki> [[Dynamic Contraction System]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63675&oldid=63674 * A * (+211) /* DCS compiled to Chicken */
09:26:58 <Taneb> int-e: you're in Austria, right? I think I'm actually west of you, but in a different time zone
09:26:59 <int-e> hmm, actually I'm not so sure about east... the maps I grew up with were severely distorted...
09:27:14 <int-e> Oh wait.
09:27:57 <int-e> Taneb: Ah sorry, I should know better. You should be 1h behind. (GMT+1)
09:28:03 <shachaf> that is one distorted map
09:28:20 <Taneb> Cambridge is north enough we never get out of twilight this time of year :(
09:29:14 <esowiki> [[EsoInterpreters]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63676&oldid=63530 * A * (+462) Ruin this page(as DCS can trivially implement any language that does not require bytecodes).
09:29:48 <Taneb> Hexham doesn't even see astronomical twilight until the 3rd of July
09:29:48 <int-e> about 12 degrees further west... almost enough to account for one hour difference.
09:30:41 <int-e> cruel
09:35:37 <esowiki> [[EsoInterpreters]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63677&oldid=63676 * A * (+0)
09:38:49 <int-e> shachaf: I guess there's the Wang and Yu paper, http://merlot.usc.edu/csac-f06/papers/Wang05a.pdf ... the last one I looked at was https://eprint.iacr.org/2009/223 ... but I have not found any clear description of what a differential path is; all the papers seem to have concrete examples. Maybe there's something in the chosen-prefix collision attack,...
09:38:54 <int-e> ...https://documents.epfl.ch/users/l/le/lenstra/public/papers/lat.pdf
09:40:07 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63678&oldid=63658 * A * (+33) /* Sandbox: Amswer */ I think this is a trivial language... golfed it.
09:40:52 <int-e> I mean the latter paper promises an automated way for finding differential paths, so they *should* also explain what they are. But I have not read it all.
09:40:58 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63679&oldid=63678 * A * (+178) /* Sandbox: Amswer */
09:46:18 <esowiki> [[If the question specifies that the number of the words should be less than 3, and the number of words in your answer is larger than 3, your answer is automatically wrong.]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=63680 * A * (+1280) A joke...
09:47:25 <esowiki> [[If the question specifies that the number of the words should be less than 3, and the number of words in your answer is larger than 3, your answer is automatically wrong.]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63681&oldid=63680 * A * (+482)
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09:55:37 <wob_jonas> shachaf: no, intelligence is just one of the six fundamental attributes. it gives a hard limit on how hard spells you can learn, or even just activate if someone else cast them to a scroll. If you're not studying arcane magic, it's mostly meaningless, but there are ways to measure intelligence through its less important side effects, which is usefu
09:55:38 <wob_jonas> l because it tells you whether it's worth for you to pursue a carreer in arcane magic.
09:58:12 <shachaf> How can I tell whether to pursue a career in arcane magic?
09:58:42 <esowiki> [[If the question specifies that the number of the words should be less than 3, and the number of words in your answer is larger than 3, your answer is automatically wrong.]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63682&oldid=63681 * A * (+315) /* Syntax */
09:59:12 <wob_jonas> int-e: why would you need an explanation of what they are if you have a way to find them? you just want the collision, not the theory, unless you aspire to be a leading cryptographer who designs entirely new crypto primitives.
10:00:08 <shachaf> How do you know what int-e just ants?
10:00:09 <shachaf> w
10:00:42 <esowiki> [[If the question specifies that the number of the words should be less than 3, and the number of words in your answer is larger than 3, your answer is automatically wrong.]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63683&oldid=63682 * A * (+131)
10:00:49 <int-e> wob_jonas: the existing collision techniques don't quite work for what we want
10:01:16 <wob_jonas> int-e: hmm
10:01:26 <int-e> shachaf: I'd suggest a career in arcane magic if you're in a square tunnel 10ft high and wide.
10:01:31 <wob_jonas> int-e: ask on https://crypto.stackexchange.com/
10:01:50 <int-e> wob_jonas: ##crypto doesn't even know of any ASCII-only collisions.
10:02:32 <Taneb> int-e: is this you trying to break Haskell again?
10:02:45 <esowiki> [[If the question specifies that the number of the words should be less than 3, and the number of words in your answer is larger than 3, your answer is automatically wrong.]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63684&oldid=63683 * A * (+300)
10:02:48 <int-e> Taneb: again? this is still the same idea...
10:03:05 <shachaf> int-e has been trying to break haskell all this time
10:03:08 <shachaf> but haskell is unyielding
10:03:09 <Taneb> I meant something like "Is this, again, you trying to break Haskell?"
10:03:25 <shachaf> due to excellent and carefully-considered choices in cryptographic primitives
10:03:45 <esowiki> [[If the question specifies that the number of the words should be less than 3, and the number of words in your answer is larger than 3, your answer is automatically wrong.]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63685&oldid=63684 * A * (+292)
10:03:51 <int-e> And that's what it is... an idea. I don't think it's very realistic really, unless somebody does the obvious that involves 2^64 MD5 computations.
10:04:42 <shachaf> Which is remarkably feasible.
10:04:53 <int-e> true
10:04:58 <esowiki> [[Joke language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63686&oldid=62268 * A * (+348) /* General languages */
10:05:00 <int-e> but not quite a hobby project
10:06:31 <esowiki> [[If the question specifies that the number of the words should be less than 3, and the number of words in your answer is larger than 3, your answer is automatically wrong.]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63687&oldid=63685 * A * (+19)
10:06:55 <shachaf> Did you figure out the approximate cost in USD for someone determined?
10:07:10 <shachaf> Something around 10^5?
10:07:25 <wob_jonas> why do we actually need to find a collision? isn't it enough to know that it's reasonably possible to find one, and patch Haskell to avoid that?
10:07:59 <int-e> I think we hade 50k on Amazon AWS as an estimate... so it should be quite a bit cheaper when done at home.
10:08:44 <esowiki> [[Dynamic Contraction System]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63688&oldid=63675 * A * (+23) /* Examples */
10:09:26 <wob_jonas> `perl -eprint 284.68 * 50_000
10:09:27 <HackEso> 14234000
10:09:33 <wob_jonas> not cheap enough
10:09:55 <int-e> ?
10:10:12 <wob_jonas> currency conversion from 50_000 USD
10:10:18 <int-e> oh
10:11:53 <shachaf> Do you know what the AWS premium is for something like this?
10:12:12 <shachaf> Maybe it's 1000x and it only costs $50 at home.
10:13:15 <esowiki> [[Dynamic Contraction System]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63689&oldid=63688 * A * (+75) Suggestions are welcome. (I've ruined DCS via using up whitespace characters.)
10:15:25 <int-e> shachaf: I'd assume a factor 3-10 marginally, but there's the hardware cost to consider as well.
10:15:44 <int-e> Note: This is a wild guess.
10:20:52 <int-e> shachaf: I suspect we're talking about something like 50MWh on a GPU.
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10:32:06 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63690&oldid=63679 * A * (+8142)
10:38:26 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63691&oldid=63690 * A * (+4806) /* 99 bottles of beer program in H */ Doc
10:39:11 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63692&oldid=63691 * A * (+17) /* 99 bottles of beer program in H */
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11:28:03 <wob_jonas> int-e: you were right https://esolangs.org/logs/2019-06-22.html#l6b
11:29:02 <shachaf> I wish there was a channel like this one minus the logs.
11:29:12 <shachaf> I should probably stop talking in here and other logged IRC channels.
11:29:50 <wob_jonas> shachaf: I can join #esoteric-blah if you want
11:30:07 <wob_jonas> that channel is already tied to #esoteric, and it's not logged
11:30:37 <wob_jonas> now of course you know all the risks about that, such as, if you say something on a non-logged channel, people will often miss it
11:31:27 <shachaf> Isn't that a channel for bot spam?
11:33:22 <wob_jonas> shachaf: it currently is, but if we use it for more important things, we can excise the bot spam elsewhere
11:33:34 <wob_jonas> on-topic conversations get priority, and bot spam is easy to move
11:34:07 <wob_jonas> if I ever reincarnate termbot and take it there, feel free to complain and I'll take it to another channel instead
11:35:40 <wob_jonas> heck, I have two channels registered here on freenode for botspam: #jeval and #termbot
11:35:45 <wob_jonas> and I can get more any time
11:49:51 <wob_jonas> but if you prefer, we could start a different unlogged channel, and advertise it through topic and HackEso stuff
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13:38:28 <wob_jonas> TIL that in Super Metroid, Mother Brain has only one eye. I thought she had two eyes, we were just seeing her from profile so one eye was behind the other.
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14:20:53 * int-e wonders whether shachaf has been bitten by the logs in any serious way
14:24:55 <int-e> @metar lowi
14:24:57 <lambdabot> LOWI 251350Z 08006KT 030V150 CAVOK 34/11 Q1020 NOSIG
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15:34:56 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63693&oldid=63692 * A * (-13434) /* 99 bottles of beer program in H */ @shachaf: I am really sorry about that; I have too many ideas today.
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18:21:40 <shachaf> I would really like this A person to stop addressing me or mentioning my name.
18:23:18 <shachaf> ais523: Can something be done about this edit as well?
18:24:30 <int-e> shachaf: Ah I rest much more easily since I started ignoring A-related esowiki messages. I still look at the "recent changes" to see how much peace of mind I've gained :)
18:25:28 <int-e> But tbf, I have not been targeted personally recently either.
18:25:46 <int-e> Basically I have not engaged with A since the Bitch debacle.
18:27:17 <shachaf> int-e: Oh, that wasn't a response to what you said, it was a response to the esowiki bot message about an hour later.
18:27:30 <int-e> shachaf: Yeah I just saw it. :)
18:27:44 <int-e> shachaf: but of course I replied first...
18:28:19 <int-e> shachaf: That said, knowing the actual context doesn't change much of my reply.
18:29:27 <shachaf> I think I'm bitten by logs regularly in that reading anything I wrote in the past is an intensely unpleasant experience.
18:31:41 <b_jonas> shachaf: that is normal. everyone improves by time, and finds themselves having done stupid and childish things in the past.
18:31:55 <b_jonas> and our channel is old enough (in logged form) for this to happen.
18:32:05 <shachaf> I mean, even yesterday.
18:32:13 <b_jonas> yes, it happens even then
18:32:31 <b_jonas> but at least yesterday I haven't written code with consistently no space before the assignment operator but one space after
18:32:34 <shachaf> Even things I wrote one day ago have this property.
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18:51:40 <kmc> shachaf: I bought a USB-C charger
18:51:42 <kmc> it's exciting
18:51:46 <kmc> furthermore, it has 12V DC input
18:51:56 <kmc> and is 90W
18:52:05 <shachaf> that's a lot of W
18:52:42 <shachaf> I have a few USB-PD chargers at around 90W that I use for my laptop and also other devices.
18:59:10 <kmc> yeah
18:59:16 <kmc> this is for my off grid solar battery box thingy
18:59:29 <kmc> I'm going to chop off the car plug and attach Powerpole connectors
18:59:41 <kmc> (and then attach powerpole connectors to the chopped off end for good measure)
18:59:52 <kmc> (but I already have a lot of car plug to powerpole cables, and some car socket to powerpole cables)
18:59:55 <kmc> powerpole is tg
19:00:38 <j4cbo> yuppp
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22:42:11 <esowiki> [[Rook]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63694&oldid=63638 * Areallycoolusername * (+939)
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23:28:24 <shachaf> are cats esoteric?
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23:31:10 <esowiki> [[Talk:Rook]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63695&oldid=63637 * A * (+257)
23:31:21 <esowiki> [[Talk:Rook]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63696&oldid=63695 * A * (+77) /* Please specify again */
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23:38:43 <esowiki> [[Rook]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63697&oldid=63694 * A * (+24)
23:40:42 <esowiki> [[Rook]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63698&oldid=63697 * A * (-4) /* Original Idea */ Simplify the doc
23:41:08 <esowiki> [[Rook]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63699&oldid=63698 * A * (-10) /* Original Idea */
23:53:36 <esowiki> [[Talk:Rook]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63700&oldid=63696 * A * (+162) /* Please specify again */
23:56:23 <fizzie> fungot: Do you have any cat friends you could ask to answer that?
23:56:23 <fungot> fizzie: mr president, i first wish to thank parliament for its support for continued financial assistance to armenia, georgia and azerbaijan to open hospitals at least in my country, and the broad economic policy guidelines. when will it be to incorporate a decision on the protection of the euro.
23:56:43 <esowiki> [[Rook]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63701&oldid=63699 * A * (+0) /* Specifics */ There are a lot of grammar mistakes in this document.
23:57:46 <shachaf> ^style
23:57:46 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl* ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp ukparl youtube
23:57:57 <shachaf> ^style alice
23:57:57 <fungot> Selected style: alice (Books by Lewis Carroll)
23:58:07 <shachaf> fungot: is cat esoteric
23:58:07 <fungot> shachaf: " but suppose the book were really fnord to fnord breath again?' she suggested.
23:58:24 <shachaf> fungot is cheshire cat
23:58:24 <fungot> shachaf: ' of course it is,' said the red knight, and they put me out.'
23:58:50 <fizzie> ^style homestuck
23:58:50 <fungot> Selected style: homestuck (Homestuck pages 1901-4673)
23:58:52 <fizzie> fungot: What sort of shenanigans are those trolls up to now?
23:58:52 <fungot> fizzie: the life in the water. dave's package contained a modified with rose's knitting. he gave rose a knitting set, the fabled to live on the green moon in the other. dream john, still asleep, fell. he was saved by bro's room unable to do this
23:59:34 <esowiki> [[Talk:Rook]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63702&oldid=63700 * A * (+252) Add more information about the documentation
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