00:00:05 They're having a onesie Wednesday at work (it's like casual Friday except you can guess the difference), but I don't have one. 00:02:08 how many do you have 00:03:03 I have as many as none. 00:03:15 I guess there's a one in none. 00:03:37 zerosie zaturday 00:04:21 are cats esoteric? => maybe. My cat regularly can’t remember there is food and I need to walk her to it for her to see and eat it. I can’t model what’s in her head, as she doesn’t seem to be absent-minded 00:05:39 do you really have a cat 00:05:43 how come i've never seen it 00:06:24 or she could decide to be offended by me and walk away and a minute later she returns and purrs 00:06:32 shachaf: I do, I swear :P 00:07:18 she’s sleeping now, a perfect reminder to me to go too 00:07:30 bye bye 00:07:36 to go photograph her, you mean 00:07:48 and post the photographs in this channel 00:07:48 [[User talk:A]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63703&oldid=63693 * A * (-661) /* A simple concentrative language in 26 lines of C code */ It's wrong to swear and shout. 00:08:27 maybe tomorrow I’ll post that zipper-tree language on the wiki, with a photograph?.. or without? Nobody knows! 00:08:50 I mean, today in the late afternoon 00:08:54 @time arseniiv 00:08:54 Local time for arseniiv is ср июн. 26 05:08:51 2019 00:09:13 hopefully I’ll be well-slept 00:09:29 yes it seems correct 00:10:05 though why is it local upto weekday and month spellings? 00:10:25 I mean, so overlocal 00:10:49 it's your own irc client sending that text 00:11:36 hm it should do it more neutrally 00:22:04 hm, an IRC pager?! wow 00:22:16 okay ultimate bye this time 00:26:40 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:36:30 -!- tromp has joined. 00:40:52 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 00:53:55 @time fungot 00:53:56 fizzie: that is a winner's attitude, and there is no particularly good human translation for this concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear con 00:54:48 Aw, I thought I had got that right. :/ 00:55:03 fungot's speech seems to be denoted by a single, linear concept. 00:55:03 shachaf: this is a really hot look for a stronger! 01:00:22 Even looking at them sources, I'm not sure what went wrong there. 01:05:10 Ohhh, maybe lambdabot's just ignoring their fellow robotic pal. 01:05:37 shocking 01:05:50 ^echo @echo 01:05:50 @echo @echo 01:06:13 fungot is also not responding to my ctcp time 01:06:13 shachaf: this is it, like an apple or, just maybe, this is just what your porkhollow's fat ass needs. 01:06:30 fungot: take that back 01:06:30 shachaf: john. recycle the grist in the room. he briefly speaks to its strife! quota for the day. she simply returns to the land of thought and focus on the matter 01:06:43 ^style agora 01:06:43 Selected style: agora (a large selection of Agora rules, both current and historical) 01:07:07 Oh, no, it did respond. 01:07:24 Yeah, I wasn't paying attention. 01:07:31 (It's kind of a human-assisted mechanism.) 01:08:27 fungot: you're the bot now, dog 01:08:27 shachaf: iv) the frequency of a 01:08:30 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 01:08:41 18:07 [ctcp(fungot)] HUG 01:08:41 18:08 CTCP CUDDLE reply from fungot: 01:08:44 kmc: ☝ 01:09:07 we've discovered the best bot 01:09:10 I think that may have been a protocol violation. 01:09:29 uh oh 01:09:38 cuddle protocols have been violated 01:09:41 that does not compute 01:09:43 exterminate 01:10:06 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 01:10:52 For the agora fungot style, I think there may have been a few too many insufficiently unwrapped newlines. 01:10:52 fizzie: whatever the outcome of the contest fund shall be created in the rules 01:11:06 It tends to end sentences pretty abruptly. 01:11:18 aww 01:11:24 <3 bot <3 01:11:55 i need a cuddle bot 01:11:59 preferably the kind with fur + meow 01:12:19 + purr + cute 01:13:41 There's a new pair of those on the [insert your locale's designation of the floor that's one above street level] floor flat right above the entrance to this building, every now and then I see them observing intently what goes on. 01:14:44 kmc: https://www.reddit.com/r/aww/comments/byltf3/my_nephew_had_the_best_interruption_while_trying/ 01:38:09 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:43:16 Is LuaRocks more like Python's packaging... globalness, or is it more like Cargo/npm with separate dependency installations per project? 01:43:33 I have no idea what packaging is like in the Pythonverse 01:51:29 They've got that venv thing going on over there in Pythonia, at least. 02:03:55 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 02:10:00 Apparently LuaRocks is global by default, can be set to be local 02:25:06 -!- tromp has joined. 02:29:44 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 03:32:11 [[Garbage]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=63704 * A * (+427) Created page with "[[Garbage]] is a very simple [[esoteric programming language]] in order to fullfill the definitions of a programmming language. == Syntax == The language can only contain one..." 03:35:03 [[Garbage]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63705&oldid=63704 * A * (-11) /* Syntax */ 03:35:46 [[Garbage]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63706&oldid=63705 * A * (+24) /* Syntax */ 03:36:06 [[Garbage]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63707&oldid=63706 * A * (-12) 03:37:47 [[Garbage]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63708&oldid=63707 * A * (+13) /* Syntax */ 04:07:36 [[Garbage]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63709&oldid=63708 * A * (+200) 04:07:58 [[Garbage]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63710&oldid=63709 * A * (-3) /* Implementation */ 04:12:11 -!- uplime has changed nick to ^. 04:12:17 -!- ^ has quit (Disconnected by services). 04:13:05 -!- uplime has joined. 04:13:11 -!- tromp has joined. 04:17:50 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 04:19:03 -!- uplime has changed nick to ^. 04:47:23 -!- iconmaster has joined. 04:57:23 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 04:59:26 -!- trn has quit (Quit: quit). 05:04:28 -!- imode has joined. 05:05:57 -!- ^ has changed nick to [. 05:06:01 -!- [ has quit (Disconnected by services). 05:06:19 -!- uplime has joined. 05:11:02 -!- uplime has changed nick to ^. 05:12:19 -!- ^ has changed nick to [. 05:59:42 -!- trn has joined. 06:38:47 -!- tromp has joined. 07:00:49 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:09:53 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 07:25:40 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:38:28 -!- iconmaster_ has joined. 07:42:14 -!- iconmaster has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:42:50 -!- tromp has joined. 07:48:26 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:31:12 -!- [ has changed nick to ^. 08:35:26 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 08:36:10 `bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.smackjeeves.com/comics/2815101/20190521/ 08:36:12 bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.smackjeeves.com/comics/2815101/20190521/: b_jonas 08:36:30 -!- iconmaster_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:36:43 -!- iconmaster_ has joined. 08:37:24 [[Andrei Machine 9000]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63711&oldid=11675 * Salpynx * (+254) /* Examples */ 4-cube skeleton 08:38:43 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 08:38:43 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 08:38:43 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:16:58 -!- laerling has joined. 09:34:51 -!- laerling has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 09:41:03 -!- iconmaster_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 09:48:00 -!- laerling has joined. 09:51:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:33:00 -!- xkapastel has joined. 11:47:47 -!- laerling has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:36:56 -!- arseniiv has joined. 12:45:31 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:45:59 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 13:06:55 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 13:09:23 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 13:09:23 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 13:17:54 -!- FreeFull has joined. 13:29:24 Say I have a 1990s scientific pocket calculator that works with floating-point numbers whose mantissa is a decimal number of 12 decimal digits. I want to find out if it does multiplication correctly, or instead it cheats by dropping some digits or doing rounding wrong, and thus reverse engineer the semantics of its multiplication. Does someone happ 13:29:24 en to have testcases that help in this? 13:34:05 Also, I just realized why, if in an interactive python3 interpreter, you enter a for-loop with a single statement right after the colon, it prompts you for more lines before executing it, despite that python syntax implies that the body suite can't continue if there's a statement after the colon in the same line 13:34:57 It's because for loops have an optional else: clause 13:42:38 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 13:52:01 -!- rain1 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:10:32 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:12:42 I think there was another language with "else" clauses for loops, except with different semantics. 14:13:21 -!- arseniiv has joined. 14:13:34 Python's are apparently "the loop terminated due to the condition being false" (instead of break). 14:13:47 The other language I think was "the loop was not entered at all". 14:14:04 i thought it also was the later for python 14:15:31 fizzie: yes, there's I think two different semantics. continue blocks in perl; else blocks in python; and some crazy suggestion for C++ (though I don't see how it would even not be syntactically ambiguous) 14:17:10 isn't c++'s syntax context sensitive to begin with 14:19:23 maybe I just dreamed the latter 14:19:54 myname: no, I mean it would patently break existing programs that have the form `if (a) for (;b;) c; else d;` 14:20:06 and that's so obvious that that probably wasn't the proposed syntax 14:20:21 either the syntax was different or I'm confusing this with an entirely different language or just dreamed it up 14:20:32 good old dangling else 14:30:46 myname: incidentally, the dangling else doesn't make the grammer not context-free 14:31:13 i know 14:34:13 constructors or something like that do, according to the c++ fqa 14:34:49 wob_jonas: it doesn't even make the grammar inherently unambiguous. 14:35:15 https://cs.stackexchange.com/q/68828/ 14:35:21 int-e: yeah 14:38:24 -!- rain1 has joined. 14:39:50 -!- kolontaev has joined. 14:39:56 Generating Malbolge code using simulated annealing https://yurichev.com/blog/malbolge/ 14:44:49 kolontaev: very cool! 14:50:30 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:57:04 shachaf: my cat: https://imgur.com/a/PPqkpMU 15:03:52 Is its name "the"? 15:04:58 -!- xkapastel has joined. 15:09:23 fizzie: no, “the” is the name of the picture, and cat’s name is one of fungot’s styles 15:09:23 arseniiv: ( 2) without disrupting the existence of the 15:09:30 ^style 15:09:30 Available: agora* alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp ukparl youtube 15:09:46 the second one 15:10:39 though I should consider renaming her “the” as she prefers to not treat that name as something special 15:10:50 s/that/the current 15:11:10 so I call her different things from time to time 15:32:29 [[Talk:Rook]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63712&oldid=63702 * Areallycoolusername * (+1307) 15:33:28 [[Talk:Rook]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63713&oldid=63712 * Areallycoolusername * (-3) 15:33:59 [[Talk:Rook]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63714&oldid=63713 * Areallycoolusername * (+2) 15:36:11 [[Rook]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63715&oldid=63701 * Areallycoolusername * (+134) 15:40:58 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 16:05:28 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:05:43 ugh, getting a contact email for google support is terrible 16:08:23 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Client Quit). 16:09:34 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:10:36 myname: please hold while we train our AI to deal with your problem 16:11:02 i'd rather not 16:12:08 Sometimes I'm surprised to hear that apparently, Google still employs people. 16:17:14 [[Rook]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63716&oldid=63715 * Areallycoolusername * (+1570) 16:17:44 [[Rook]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63717&oldid=63716 * Areallycoolusername * (+4) /* Hello World Program */ 16:18:08 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:19:12 [[Talk:Rook]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63718&oldid=63714 * Areallycoolusername * (+135) /* Explanation */ 16:28:21 I don't think there is really such a thing as "Google support", as in a specific group of people. 16:28:58 (All the groups of people are more specific to products than that.) 17:01:45 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 17:02:40 -!- atslash has joined. 17:08:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:12:06 hm it seems I’ve just reinvented a call stack 17:15:10 a stack where you have bars (I have taken them from 7 and maybe something else too) and can index elements from the highest bar upto top and push a copy of an element by index (what’s good it doesn’t mess the indexing) 17:15:29 normal commands use the top elements as usual 17:16:21 also one can clear all elements from the top down to the nearest bar, and remove that bar too, and we can assume the bottom has an infinite amount of bars 17:16:35 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:17:10 and then I muse: we could support procedures this way… and then it gets me 17:18:39 though I’m worried that punctured trees and this barstack will feel crowded in one esolang together 17:18:58 but this memory organization seems just too good 17:19:01 to wait 17:19:24 why should Befunge be alone in the feature-creeped esolang category... 17:22:23 int-e: I didn’t think it is 17:23:43 It really isn't. 17:24:04 though I have a guiding star of Real Fast Nora’s Hair Salon Shear Disaster Download 17:24:26 int-e: oh, I meant to say I didn’t think it’s feature-creeped at all 17:24:31 At the least there's mroman's Burlesque, and there are the Golfscript dialects. 17:24:39 Oh. 17:26:11 * int-e tries to pinpoint the meaning of "it". 17:26:16 * int-e fails. 17:26:36 I don’t remember its features in full, so it’s an internal something, not an external something 17:27:02 https://github.com/Deewiant/Mycology is an indication of how rich Befunge is. 17:27:02 my friend had eaten my ears with mentions of de re and de dicto, so I wonder if this is them 17:27:45 int-e fails. => I meant, Befunge. Oh, I need more pronouns 17:29:28 Also the very fact that there are language extensions ("fingerprints") is very feature-creepy. 17:31:34 fungot: hi there! 17:31:34 int-e: 0.50 if the deck and transferring it to take precedence over every other currency. 17:31:55 fungot: are those '06 bitcoins? 17:31:56 int-e: there is a member of that cfj. the ' actual value' of the three day period is in 17:32:01 fungot prints 17:32:01 arseniiv: announcement of a 17:32:14 shachaf: ^^ beware 17:32:15 I hope that a is case-sensitive 17:32:22 yeah 17:33:10 shachaf: have you seen my cat named the^W^W yet? 17:34:13 also is Punctree a reasonable portmanteau of “punctured” and “tree”? 17:34:47 (this is not for schachaf specifically) 17:35:00 (I mean, only) 17:38:25 woot, charging my laptop from USB-C for the first time 17:53:45 -!- relrod has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 17:54:12 -!- relrod has joined. 17:54:14 -!- relrod has quit (Changing host). 17:54:14 -!- relrod has joined. 18:03:22 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:04:04 -!- atslash has joined. 18:20:41 [[Rook]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63719&oldid=63717 * Areallycoolusername * (+101) 18:23:02 [[Rook]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63720&oldid=63719 * Areallycoolusername * (+27) 18:23:26 `grwp bar 18:23:28 abnf:Augmented Backus-Naur Form, an update on the popular Backus-Naur Form programming language, introduces support for "Augmented Production", e.g. `foo +::= bar`. The older `::=` syntax will continue to be supported for orthogonal-compatibility purposes. \ arabic:.scihpylgoreiH sa drah sa ton hguoht ,troppus stnof ekam ot drah yrev si taht egaugnal citimes lartnec a si cibarA \ bardsworthlist:bardsworthlist is update notification for the Bardsworth webco 18:23:42 [[Rook]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63721&oldid=63720 * Areallycoolusername * (+0) 18:43:24 -!- b_jonas has joined. 18:52:33 I now have a USB-C power brick that can charge my laptop from a Powerpole connector! 18:52:36 this is so exciting 18:52:45 it's pretty compact too 18:54:01 arseniiv: that is a top-notch tdh 18:55:05 ^^ 18:55:31 (cat-ears, not arrows) 18:58:03 -!- grumble has quit (Quit: and some kind of madness has started to evolve). 18:58:25 -!- grumble has joined. 19:04:31 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:04:54 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 19:04:56 arseniiv: Uh, a top-notch cat 19:06:10 ah 19:06:36 shachaf: I thought tdh is something like hth, a modifier of sorts 19:06:47 It was. 19:06:52 `? tdh 19:06:53 tdh is the past tense of a successful hth. hth. 19:07:01 so I’ve already presumed it’s about the cat 19:07:03 aaah 19:09:03 i have a state-of-the-art cat classification system and it has classified alice as top-notch 19:12:17 :D 19:12:29 it is heart-warming 19:12:49 I’ll tell it to her 19:12:52 `? cat 19:12:53 Cats are cool, but should be illegal. 19:13:03 oh right 20:12:58 -!- APic has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:45:04 -!- APic has joined. 20:57:24 [[Punctree]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=63722 * Arseniiv * (+8686) the revelation cant be postponed any further 20:57:55 [[User:Arseniiv]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63723&oldid=59252 * Arseniiv * (+15) technical 20:59:49 -!- Soni has changed nick to Soni|AntiMatrix. 21:02:15 [[Punctree]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63724&oldid=63722 * Arseniiv * (+94) categorify 21:02:24 tada? 21:05:23 [[Punctree]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63725&oldid=63724 * Arseniiv * (+26) /* Syntax */ behavior fix 21:06:45 I think it’s TC but it may surprisingly be not 21:13:32 [[Punctree]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63726&oldid=63725 * Arseniiv * (+6) sorry, a couple of not-so-tolerable mistakes 21:13:48 so far I’m finished 21:17:31 arseniiv: a funny byte encoding would be to compose 2 _ 0 and 2 0 _ (with 2 0 0 for nil) 21:18:31 int-e: oh, good idea! 21:18:41 though we need to be able to parse it 21:19:14 for the original one, I at least think it’s easy 21:19:40 this idea brought to you by lisp: caaddr 21:20:12 int-e: though nil would be _, there should be exactly one hole in a whole tree 21:20:15 But yeah I bet it's more annoying to parse thant the more customary cons/nil list. 21:20:37 oh right. I wanted to make a tree for some reason, rather than a context (aka tree') 21:21:02 arseniiv: your cat's ears are very good 21:21:06 and eyes 21:21:13 int-e: your idea is tempting 21:21:52 shachaf: hm I thought these are a pretty standard ones 21:22:01 eyes 21:22:04 arseniiv: oh is _° := 0 a typo? 21:22:21 int-e: definitely, it should be idempotent here 21:23:28 [[Punctree]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63727&oldid=63726 * Arseniiv * (+1) nastie typoes 21:27:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:28:00 int-e: destructing your things seems easy: π′(2 cont′ 0) = π′(2 0 cont′) = cont′, and we can see is this 2 cont′ 0 or 2 0 cont′ by using < (gives 2 cont′ 0 ≢ _ vs. _) 21:28:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:28:33 then we need to show they are easily constructed 21:29:38 __+ gives 2 _ 0, then we can apply ~ to get 2 0 _, and we can compose all the way 21:30:04 I’ll swap in your construction, then 21:31:20 int-e: also what’s your wiki name if I to credit you 21:31:37 it's totally unsurprising: int-e 21:33:11 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:33:13 Did you ever say the meaning of that name? 21:36:46 `? int-e 21:36:47 int-e är inte svensk. Hen kommer att spränga solen. Hen står för sig själv. Hen gillar inte färger, men han gillar dissonans. Er hat ein Hipster-Spiel gekauft. 21:40:11 int-e: so it’s not for example Int-E or something? Though thanks, this is much simpler to find out 21:41:40 right, works both ways 21:47:24 [[Punctree]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63728&oldid=63727 * Arseniiv * (+576) newerer 21:48:17 I’m glad 21:49:55 For building constants, you can add bits with _+ and ~_+~, no . required. I think. 21:52:10 ("add" meaning "prepend") 21:53:13 Or perhaps store unbounded sized natural numbers in the tree encoding that Amicus uses? :-) 21:57:10 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:58:05 int-e: better safe! I’m not entirely sure in +, I added it solely to construct something with 2 as a head 21:59:19 b_jonas: is there a place for one _? 21:59:36 arseniiv: no. they represent integers as a *tree*. 21:59:44 trees don't have underscores. 22:00:03 this way you can also represent lists of numbers as a tree 22:00:10 since you just put the representations in a list 22:00:22 ah, though, what am I saying, we can always treat a tree as (2 _ tree), valid here 22:00:51 I assumed you use the underscore as a cursor that you move around in the tree or something 22:01:24 that way you can modify items deep into the tree without having to rebuild a path from the root to it 22:02:28 yeah 22:02:49 but I don't know much about what your language does, so I'm not sure about this 22:02:50 though this is yet theoretical in regard to operations I had picked 22:03:33 it does something strange, maybe I should this time write an interpreter 22:03:59 that may help 22:04:02 write programs too 22:04:19 and perhaps reusable library functions, if such things are possible in this language 22:06:28 there is a big hack: quoting, and a while-else loop using quoted code chunks. One could write eval using that construct, so there is a way to use functions, though if there are more than 24 of them, it would be not so easy 22:08:59 -!- Cale has joined. 22:14:43 int-e: yeah, it works, though there is no need for the first ~ (only the root branches are mirrored, so there is no need to pre-mirror the argument), but these two operations append bits. Though I can easily change the details so they would prepend them. Don’t know if having a most or least signifigant digit near the head of the tree′ is more useful 22:15:57 arseniiv: hmm, are we viewing the trees the same way? I'm viewing the root as the head of the list 22:16:35 int-e: same 22:17:46 what? no, the head is the left child (car), the tail is the right child (cdr) 22:18:20 but look at my explicit procedure for converting a byte into a tree′, I think it should give results inverted to what you expected 22:19:56 b_jonas: ah, this is how I started with the encoding, and it would be useful to encode arbitrary lists, but then int-e suggested a symmetric encoding for bit lists, so it’s about that one now 22:22:15 arseniiv: I still think of it as prepending... you just have a little endian bit encoding. Your brain may operate differently :) 22:23:20 mmaybe 22:23:37 why do people use big endian 22:23:42 -!- b_jonas has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:23:44 does it have any benefits twh 22:24:08 shachaf: it's an arBITrary choice 22:24:58 Big endian is familiar from how we write numbers. I think for left-to-right reading it does have cognitive advantages in that the most significant digits are encountered first. 22:25:03 Computers just don't care. 22:25:38 [[Punctree]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63729&oldid=63728 * Arseniiv * (+127) endianness issues: not treated 22:25:44 I mean for human use. 22:26:11 it's time for https://www.ietf.org/rfc/ien/ien137.txt again. 22:29:14 IEN 731 22:30:04 I'm not sure about before, but now you're just trolling 22:30:24 Hmm, I think I'm joking, not trolling. 22:30:45 maybe when I will write the interpreter, there would be modes for both endiannesses, to check what code variant is easier on the eyes 22:31:00 shachaf: yllufepoh 22:32:00 at least in this one I will be able to write a truth machine example 22:32:24 as I specially included equality testing as a primitive 22:32:47 no more hypothetical speepless nights! 22:33:04 My question was serious: Are there any benefits to writing numbers with the most significant digit first, rather than last? 22:33:11 It seems to me that it'd be less awkward the other way. 22:33:38 shachaf: maybe, but we also need to start speaking them this way too 22:33:53 When I add numbers in my head, I often do it from left to right, and backtrack when I run into a carry. I think this is a common algorithm. 22:35:04 Obviously in practice it's more important to be compatible with existing conventions. But are there any advantages to the standard way? 22:39:43 I think, mostly compatibility with spoken numerals and what int-e mentioned that most significant digit is more significant so maybe if it goes first, there may be a time advantage. Though I doubt it is for numbers under ten or so digits, they should be read all at once 22:40:12 But without knowing the length of the number the most significant digit is kind of meaningless. 22:40:35 as for some additional obscure reasons, I’ll join the question 22:40:42 shachaf: yeah 22:42:41 so this second arguments dangles on very rare cases when we can (and want!) estimate the length of a number written on many lines, or maybe even pages, so that we also can’t see it all at once 22:42:53 s/arguments/argument 23:02:38 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 23:15:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:15:51 -!- salpynx has joined. 23:21:58 arseniiv: following the new Punctree spec, trying to test my understanding: Is (2 _ _) simply equal to a leaf, 0? so that 2 (2 _ _) α := 2 0 α? 23:24:19 salpynx: hm I’d say 2 _ _ is meaningless (and can’t be a result of operations on trees′ which are defined there) 23:24:44 we can define 0 as 2 _ _ if it would be useful, though! 23:25:31 I don’t know if it will, at least from an implementation standpoint 23:27:22 the defaults of / \ seem to imply there is a virtual (2 _ _) below every 0, I was trying to think is there is difference between a virtual (2 _ _) and an explicit one 23:30:05 actually what I was really trying to do was make holes in the tree trunks, but these seem like proper binary trees, so that's not possible :) 23:34:18 salpynx: ah now I see. If it will all be consistent, maybe there is a sense to treat 0 as 2 _ _, though I think there will still be complications 23:35:24 yeah, holes in place of 2s would be far away from zipper ideas I flowed on to this 23:38:54 I wasn't sure about (2 _ _), whether it was implied or intended by the spec. I was trying to infer something that was not explicitly stated to check I got the concept. I _think_ it's safe, but there may be issues depending how other parts interact 23:41:46 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).