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02:25:06 <zzo38> https://rabbitboots.com/kfx/index.php/ZZT_On_ZZT#Undocumented_features Now I noticed they mentioned you can push | to access the cheat prompt on the title screen in ZZT. I did not know that, but now I know.
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07:27:31 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Messersm * New user account
07:34:55 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65525&oldid=65480 * Messersm * (+218) /* Introductions */
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10:17:53 <shachaf> whoa, it's unknown whether the Post Correspondence problem is decidable with 3 or 4 tiles.
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10:32:40 <cpressey> IOCCC winners are denounced; IOCCC switches are debounced
10:35:13 <cpressey> So I have this vanilla term-rewriting language, and a program that can, given a set of rules, check if a given sequence of rewrites is valid or not.
10:35:58 <cpressey> I'm trying to find the shortest distance between this program, and a program that can check if a proof written in propositional logic is valid or not.
10:37:20 <cpressey> You don't need much to turn the one into the other, but you do need a few things, and I want a clear idea of what they are.
10:37:44 <cpressey> First-order logic would be the next step beyond that.
10:39:59 <cpressey> Oh! For anyone who hasn't seen it, this is definitely worth checking out: http://incredible.pm/
10:40:20 <int-e> cpressey: so I made a faster Wagon interpreter: https://gist.github.com/int-e/e4ae1f40f8173d67860d8f8e45c433c0#file-ring-hs
10:42:06 <esowiki> [[Talk:Wagon]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65526&oldid=65522 * Int-e * (+42) /* Computational Class */ --> link
10:42:39 <Taneb> cpressey: that's pretty neat
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11:09:19 <cpressey> int-e: your implementations make mine look like chicken-scratches. I'll try to make and release a Wagon distribution today. But I have to rewrite the part about computational class first.
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11:28:40 <int-e> Hmm, should I have a look at the cargo cult?
11:29:16 <int-e> (I mean Rust: https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/ch02-00-guessing-game-tutorial.html)
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11:44:11 <cpressey> https://github.com/catseye/Wagon
11:45:23 <cpressey> I had some thoughts about how you might simulate a TM more directly in a Wagon-like language. Basically you could say something like:
11:47:10 <cpressey> while(!halt) { write(0,0,0); if(s>1) { if(s>2) { if(s>3) { xor(1,0,1) } xor(0,1,1) } xor(1,1,1) } use() }
11:47:36 <cpressey> where use() takes what's been written by write() and modified by xor() and applies it to the tape
11:48:27 <int-e> sure, we can do something like that.
11:48:52 <cpressey> use() still represents "a little control" perhaps
11:54:06 <int-e> cpressey: If you look closely at Tag.hs, I have enough building blocks for boolean circuits plus an extensible circular tape.
11:55:43 <int-e> cpressey: I guess the real challenge with your suggestion is to deal with the variable movement of the TM's head.
11:56:40 <esowiki> [[Wagon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65527&oldid=65521 * B jonas * (+62) link to the new int-erpreter
11:57:35 <cpressey> int-e: yeah, I was thinking, if you had a slightly different memory model, and an instruction "pop N and add N to position of tape head" - otherwise you need a loop
11:58:11 <cpressey> b/c you only *need* to handle -1 and 1
11:58:59 <int-e> cpressey: I believe you /can/ have a variadic shift by invoking "r" with a flag that indicates whether to move or not, often enough.
11:59:17 <cpressey> oh good grief. yes, possibly you can
11:59:44 <cpressey> r is disappointingly powerful, even with only 0 or 1
12:00:01 <int-e> But it's tricky to get right. (I was happy when I had my new 'landn' operation and that only has two "variable" r operations, the second one undoing the effect of the first.)
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12:02:03 <int-e> cpressey: so it may be powerful, but it's really awkward to use.
12:07:59 <int-e> cpressey: And as mentioned yesterday, the restriction to 0 and 1 gutted it to the point where it cannot be used to permute elements on the stack anymore.
12:08:29 <cpressey> Well, that's good! For some value of "good".
12:10:42 <cpressey> re hugs, cpressey == luddite, I have not actually tested it on hugs, but it's in the "standard Haskell-running script" that I've sort of arrived at
12:11:04 <cpressey> https://github.com/catseye/Wagon/blob/master/bin/wagon
12:11:08 <int-e> cpressey: yeah that's what I thought :)
12:11:27 <cpressey> It makes me happy that I can build Hugs on NetBSD, etc
12:11:28 <int-e> because I honestly can't remember when I last used hugs.
12:12:09 <int-e> But I suspect it has been over a decade.
12:13:44 <cpressey> Ha, running Wagon's test suite on Hugs is actually faster than running it with ghci.
12:14:31 <cpressey> 2.8 seconds versus 6.2 seconds
12:15:08 <cpressey> 0.18 seconds if you compile it with ghc first
12:16:37 <cpressey> I can forgive the ghc team for not making reducing ghci startup time their #1 priority, though.
12:17:46 <int-e> (This is /the/ bottleneck for lambdabot's Haskell evaluation. Which is obviously the most important use case in the world.)
12:18:38 <int-e> It's not ghci exactly; it's mueval, which uses hint, which uses the ghc API in a way similar to, but not quite the same as, ghci does.
12:19:38 <cpressey> This is a terrible idea, but could you not run a sort of "language server daemon" in the backrgound that... yeah
12:20:16 <cpressey> Split lambdabot into a set of microservices
12:21:03 <int-e> cpressey: I'm worried about trading timeouts for a memory leak.
12:21:54 <int-e> (ghci is bad at releasing memory... so a I imagine a long-running haskell evaluation server would inherit that property)
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12:25:08 <int-e> cpressey: So I have a crazy idea that would involve starting a ghc API session, loading the most important packages, then suspend the RTS, and then fork the process, and proceed with the actual evaluation. But I'm scared of investigating it in detail (the RTS is multi-threaded, and uses pipes internally, and who knows what else)
12:27:00 <wob_jonas> it could be two-graded, using hugs by default, but if evaluation takes long, switch to compiling with ghc
12:27:11 <wob_jonas> would lead to funny unexplainable inconsistencies in behavior
12:30:46 <int-e> s/funny/interesting/ is about as far as I'm willing to go
12:31:04 <int-e> (in the "interesting times" sense of course)
12:47:02 <int-e> #ghc points out that there's a forkProcess operation that does a lot of this work; it may just be enough.
13:08:38 <esowiki> [[Wagon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65528&oldid=65527 * Chris Pressey * (+383) Make the article a little less stub-like.
13:12:56 <esowiki> [[Wagon]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65529&oldid=65528 * Chris Pressey * (+0) Category name does not contain a hyphen
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15:47:13 <zzo38> cpressey: I wrote a document for using Glk with Funge-98.
15:48:08 <zzo38> The registry doesn't work (as it says, it is obsolete), so, I will ask here instead.
15:49:16 <zzo38> Also, I think that there should be a handprint value defined for unregistered interpreters.
15:53:33 <fizzie> fungot: What do you think? Presumably you have many opinions regarding Funge-98.
15:53:33 <fungot`> fizzie: on the other hand; i'm probably goign to use it is me, by the way,
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15:59:12 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck implementations]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65530&oldid=64583 * Erwijet * (+261) Added erwijet's flexable brainf.net library
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18:00:25 <b_jonas> what genre of music does my hon. and learned friend fungot listen to?
18:00:25 <fungot> b_jonas: i just want to use local packages, specify file urls. if you want
18:00:48 <fungot> b_jonas: looking at it. relative to s48 that's exactly what i said doesn't make any sense
18:01:26 <esowiki> [[Loose Circular Brainfuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=65531 * Ais523 * (+45) redir
18:04:06 <esowiki> [[Talk:Wagon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65532&oldid=65526 * Ais523 * (+522) alterrnative Turing-completeness proof: you can implement two-bracket brainfuck
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21:25:44 <zzo38> How to make Ghostscript to not wait until the window is exposed before it will work?
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