00:36:20 -!- xkapastel has joined. 01:00:53 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:06:36 -!- tromp has joined. 01:11:27 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:39:00 "X-Clacks-Overhead is a non-standardised HTTP header..." I have seen it in NNTP too (when downloading a message from the aioe.org help desk newsgroup). 02:45:27 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 02:54:50 -!- tromp has joined. 02:59:13 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 03:15:10 -!- diginet has joined. 03:57:49 I have a book of philosophy of mathematics and logic. In one chapter they mention set theory with intuitionistic logic and Uniformity Principle. 03:57:55 Do you know of that? 04:24:28 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 04:43:23 -!- tromp has joined. 04:48:03 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:52:21 -!- arseniiv has joined. 05:14:31 -!- MDude has joined. 05:41:54 Also they say that a set that is neither finite nor infinite is a "Dedekind set", but I cannot find that on Wikipedia. 05:45:48 What is Uniformity Principle? 05:47:10 Do you like identity-based encryption? 05:49:14 How is identity-based encryption working? 05:50:19 Uniformity Principle is defined as: Whenever an extensional binary relation R links every set of natural numbers X to some natural number n, there is some n that gets related to R by all such sets X. 05:50:50 forall X. exists n. R(X,n) -> exists n. forall X. R(X,n) 05:51:01 This is the description I heard: 05:51:04 (This is with intuitionistic logic, not classical logic.) 05:51:32 -!- sprocklem has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:51:34 You can use any string as a public key and encrypt things with it, and a central authority can issue private keys that can be used to decrypt. 05:51:48 For example you could encrypt to a username. 05:53:30 I think it isn't so good probably 05:53:40 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:54:35 I think it's pretty neat that it's possible. 06:02:03 Another thing you can do is "attribute-based encryption". 06:31:34 -!- tromp has joined. 06:34:21 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:34:33 -!- tromp has joined. 06:39:34 [[ ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65646&oldid=62052 * Dtuser1337 * (+18) Adding the year. 06:41:13 -!- sprocklem has joined. 06:45:30 [[Microscript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65647&oldid=45776 * Dtuser1337 * (-13) /* Commands */ seems like the tag dosent work when in
 tag.
06:46:05  This defines the set of truth values as pairing propositions p with {x:x=0 and p} to make a set of sets. In conventional mathematics this is {{},{0}}, but with the kind described in this book with intuitionistic and uniformity, such a set is neither finite nor infinite.
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06:47:25  It also has, that a set being nonempty is different from a set being inhabited.
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06:48:02  [[Jumper]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65648&oldid=65161 * Dtuser1337 * (+18) Woosh
06:52:05  [[Jolf]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65649&oldid=47253 * Dtuser1337 * (+18) Yare yare daze
06:52:16  zzo38: Is "inhabited" just stronger than nonempty because it names a specific inhabitant?
06:52:51  zzo38: Do you like this? https://home.sandiego.edu/~shulman/papers/lcm-bloomington-talk.pdf
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06:54:43  shachaf: It is stronger because it is intuitionistic logic, where (exists x. not phi) does not follow logically from (not forall x. phi).
06:55:18  Right.
06:55:25  That's what I meant.
06:55:38  O, OK.
06:55:40  I think those slides make a pretty compelling case for using linear logic for this sort of thing.
07:03:50  hi
07:10:43  Does page ten have "n > n" but should it be "n > N"?
07:15:10  Yes.
07:15:43  how they doing
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08:07:05  " You can use any string as a public key and encrypt things with it, and a central authority can issue private keys that can be used to decrypt." => sure. the central authority fixes an algorithm to generate a random private/public keypair with a reproducible random generator seeded with the super-secret key of the central authority plus t
08:07:06  he identity.  
08:07:36  there are only two problems: the central authority has to verify somehow who gets to own each identity, and the central authority has to make sure that the root key isn't stolen or lost.
08:17:59  wob_jonas: You can encrypt without asking the central authority.
08:18:10  The public key is just an arbitrary string.
08:18:16  shachaf: oh, that's harder
08:18:39  can you also decrypt without asking the central authority?
08:19:05  You get a decryption key from them.
08:19:39  do you just encrypt everything with the central authority's public key and they decrypt the messages (or their block cypher keys at least) for you?
08:20:11  No, you don't need to give them the message itself.
08:21:04  sure, you only need to give the encrypted block cypher key
08:21:16  that's shorter than the message usually
08:21:32  it's of a fixed size even if the message has a whole video
08:22:14  They give you a single decryption key that you can use to decrypt any message that was encrypted with your name by anyone.
08:22:20  but then, how do you keep the message secret, unless there's a second layer of encryption or something? send it by snail mail?
08:22:34  shachaf: now that sounds more impossible
08:27:03  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ID-based_encryption talks about it apparently.
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09:12:51  so, um, dumb question but does https://esolangs.org/wiki/Flop qualify as a Brainfuck-like? 
09:14:30  it has a separate code and data memory, has a single head pointing into the data memory, can increment or decrement or zero-test the value under the data head but not much more
09:15:00  but has more general control flow than brainfuck
09:15:50  or maybe the data memory and code memory are supposed to be the same array, like in befunge
09:17:01  not easy to tell anything from the description because it has no interpreter and no nontrivial programs
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11:19:08  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiyuYC0D4-AO0AonCfMifPQ has some nice classical music
11:29:59  Oh what a brilliant idea... let's display ads (in the console) when installing packages. How about running a crypto miner for half an hour before allowing your package to be installed?
11:32:37  wait, what?
11:33:35  if you make ads in terminal, i want at least some animation and mouse interaction
11:35:25  https://github.com/standard/standard/issues/1381 is the experiment in question
11:36:28  argh
11:36:39  The irony is that this really hilights a security problem.
11:37:03  display ads when installing packages => sure, installers for some commercial packages do that
11:37:16  Maybe I should open a ticket asking how much he wants for planting a backdoor.
11:37:16  int-e: npm already has so much of those, one more or less won't matter
11:37:30  running a crypto miner for half an hour => I wouldn't exclude it, the installer also takes half a day to complete
11:37:32  (That should be an attractive funding source!)
11:40:38  (The source also mentions https://github.com/kethinov/no-cli-ads ... which is the corresponding ad-blocker.)
11:40:51  (Let the games begin!)
11:43:12  Oh well. I received a U2F token in the mail and installation was almost painless (one configuration file for udev and things worked...)
11:47:36  forken would be an interesting dick move
11:50:01  is "forken" denglish?
11:50:57  sorry, to fork
11:51:08  anyway, forking is a way to relieve the pain of the maintainer, so it is a solution to the problem as stated. (Framed properly: "I'm tired of maintaining this software for free.")
11:52:28  not maintaining, just making an adless-standard fork that automatically merges standard overnight
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13:59:41  [[Flop]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65650&oldid=65645 * InfiniteDonuts * (+103) 
14:00:17  [[SNUSP]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65651&oldid=53706 * InfiniteDonuts * (+39) 
14:01:12  [[PATH]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65652&oldid=33608 * InfiniteDonuts * (+45) 
14:01:40  [[PATH]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65653&oldid=65652 * InfiniteDonuts * (+9) 
14:02:42  [[User:InfiniteDonuts]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65654&oldid=65625 * InfiniteDonuts * (-24) 
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15:02:16  npm has some switches to control installation, you could perhaps use --ignore-scripts to skip the ads maybe
15:03:23  (I don't know if it works; I haven't tried it, but if the ads are loaded in that way then it might)
15:12:25  (And, it seems to be, as far as I can tell. It has a "funding" package as a dependency; the "funding" package executes itself as soon as it is installed.)
15:15:54  well that seems a bit pointless
15:16:20  (if you don't trust the author/maintainer with their installation script, why would you trust them with their other code?
15:17:28  Yes, that makes sense, although it is a simple way to skip the installation scripts for whatever reason (including, that you may wish to review the code before running the scripts, or add additional steps in between, or whatever else you might want).
15:32:27  I think Rogers system is better than Magnuson system.
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15:49:33  "Another common way of expressing the base is writing it as a decimal subscript after the number that is being represented (this notation is used in this article)." I have also seen the base spelled out in words as the subscript, but it can be long. Also I have seen some documents use a hexadecimal subscript (in the same document with decimal subscripts!).
15:49:45  So, I propose to use subscripts with roman numbers instead.
15:55:02  What do you think of this?
16:02:34  I would avoid roman numerals if at all possible
16:02:43  they're really hard to use for numbers >~10
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16:13:29  zzo38: in totally ambiguous scenarios, I’d propose writing the base in unary. Ironically, unary doesn’t belong to the family of numerations to which decimal or binary do
16:14:37  though it’s not enough, I’d write all the digits too maybe (and then unary is unnecessary), like 1001011_(01)
16:14:59  arseniiv: That is going to be even more long than using words, I think.
16:19:39   Also they say that a set that is neither finite nor infinite is a "Dedekind set", but I cannot find that on Wikipedia. => seems like a terminological confusion. There are several definitions of (in)finiteness of a set, varying in strength when no presuppositions like the axiom of choice are made. When the latter is present, though, Dedekind (in)finite is equivalent to “usual” (in)finite. This can be useful: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fin
16:19:39  ite_set#Other_concepts_of_finiteness
16:22:03  ah, this is in intuitionistic concept, then I don’t know how it relates
16:22:43   arseniiv: That is going to be even more long than using words, I think. => agree for ten, disagree for two :)
16:23:01  oh my link is broken
16:23:10  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finite_set#Other_concepts_of_finiteness
16:24:00  hopefully it still could be useful. They couldn’t name those sets Dedekind without any connection to Dedekind finiteness
16:26:09  Yes, it is shorter than words in case of two, but, often you will use larger numbers for the base. If it is roman numbers then is as much as unary in case of two
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16:53:23  [[Flop]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65655&oldid=65650 * B jonas * (+24) 
16:55:52  `olist 1177
16:55:53  olist 1177: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
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18:12:19  [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65656&oldid=65643 * InfiniteDonuts * (+86) 
18:17:39  [[Flop]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65657&oldid=65655 * InfiniteDonuts * (+258) 
18:20:23  [[Flop]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65658&oldid=65657 * InfiniteDonuts * (+147) 
18:21:23  [[Flop]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65659&oldid=65658 * InfiniteDonuts * (+6) 
18:30:54  [[Flop]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65660&oldid=65659 * InfiniteDonuts * (+164) 
18:32:43  [[Flop]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65661&oldid=65660 * InfiniteDonuts * (+16) /* A Brief Tutorial */
18:33:58  [[Flop]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65662&oldid=65661 * InfiniteDonuts * (-18) /* Sample Programs */
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20:11:11  [[Funge-98]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65663&oldid=59451 * Quuxplusone * (+21) documentation of 'p' had the arguments in the wrong order
20:14:47  [[Funge-98]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65664&oldid=65663 * Quuxplusone * (+36) /* Instructions */ fix description of % and / for clarity
20:21:20  [[Funge-98]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65665&oldid=65664 * Quuxplusone * (+170) /* Instructions */ add "greater", and asciibetize the table
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20:47:19  [[Flop]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65666&oldid=65662 * InfiniteDonuts * (-10) 
21:09:58  [[Befunge]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65667&oldid=62225 * Quuxplusone * (-4692) Remove VB.NET code. Esolang isn't a source code repository for interpreters, afaik. Put that code on GitHub or something.
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21:10:47  Hi, #esoteric. Haven't been here in a while.
21:10:58  I mainly connected because: It's my first day of college!
21:11:45  Also, I can't get to slashnet to join #xkcd and I don't know if irc.slashnet.org is down or if it's the uni's wifi or what
21:11:58  Hm, http://irc.slashnet.org:80/ works for me
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21:18:51  hi hppavilion[1]! I was wondering if we lost you, you haven't been here for months
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21:19:22  b_jonas: Longer, probably
21:19:37  You had for a while, but I think I'm gonna re-add this channel as an autojoin
21:19:46  might be about a year by now
21:20:59  Also, I just bound hexchat to my vpn () so slashnet works
21:21:42  You know what's sorta crazy that I realized early this morning?
21:22:01  If I were born a few decades ago, today would could the first time in my life I'd have internet access.
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21:22:40  `? rogue one
21:22:41  Any regular who gives the slightest Rogue One spoiler shall be hunted down in real life and have their intestines removed through their eye sockets. Members would not be exempt if they existed, which they don't.
21:22:57  hppavilion[2]: ^ I wanted to ask if that's still true
21:23:04  Awwwww, you remembered!
21:23:05  we didn't dare remove it
21:23:05  Possibly
21:23:20  b_jonas: It isn't, but the spoiler rule DOES apply to other movies
21:23:48  I *may* have contemplated hiring a hitman on that NFL player who tweeted out an Endgame spoiler.
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21:26:00  Does it apply to The Empire Strikes Back?
21:27:58  movies only? does it apply to tv series, webcomics, novels, short stories?
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21:39:02  I think we should rearrange the wisdoms then if Rogue One isn't particularly the target
21:41:13  ``` set -e; slashlearn "spoiler//Don't give movie spoilers on channel. If you do, hppavilion may hire a hitman to hunt you down in real life and torture you in refined ways."; forget rogue one
21:41:16  rm: cannot remove 'wisdom/rogue': No such file or directory \ rm: cannot remove 'wisdom/one': No such file or directory \ Learned 'spoiler': Don't give movie spoilers on channel. If you do, hppavilion may hire a hitman to hunt you down in real life and torture you in refined ways.
21:41:22  ``` set -e; slashlearn "spoiler//Don't give movie spoilers on channel. If you do, hppavilion may hire a hitman to hunt you down in real life and torture you in refined ways."; forget "rogue one"
21:41:24  Relearned 'spoiler': Don't give movie spoilers on channel. If you do, hppavilion may hire a hitman to hunt you down in real life and torture you in refined ways.Forget what?
21:41:27  `? spoilers
21:41:28  Don't give movie spoilers on channel. If you do, hppavilion may hire a hitman to hunt you down in real life and torture you in refined ways.
21:41:32  `? rogue one
21:41:33  rogue one? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
21:41:41  `? hppavilion
21:41:42  hppavilion is the generator including, but not limited to, hppavilion[1], hppavilion[2], and hppavilion[42]. hppavilion is of length 37-42i-28j+4k-28ij+38ik+62jk+20ijk. A common alternative definition is the set of all items yielded by the general case of the generator. Not to be confused with hppavilion^k or hppavilion_m.
21:42:10  `? hppavilion1
21:42:12  `? hppavilion[1]
21:42:13  higgledy piggledy / hp pavilion / doesn't like jokes that are / written in text; // uncontroversially, / one in a million is / roughly the chance they won't / be left perplexed
21:42:14  hppavilion[1] se describe en las notas al pie. ¿Porqué no los dos? Nadie lo sabe. No es tan cluecless. Él aspira a ser más incomprensible que esta sabiduría.
21:42:41  Is that supposed to be a quaternion?
21:43:18  should we mention that he hates movie spoilers in one of those?
21:44:41  ``` perl -pi -e's"(jokes)"movie spoilers or $1"' wisdom/hppavilion1
21:46:09  No output.
21:47:02  What kind of higgledy piggledy is that?
21:47:06  `dowg hppavilion[1]
21:47:08  9631:2016-11-06  learn_append hppavilion[1] \xc3\x89l aspira a ser m\xc3\xa1s incomprensible que esta sabidur\xc3\xada. \ 8609:2016-06-26  learn_append hppavilion[1] No es tan cluecless. \ 6238:2015-11-23  undo 6237 \ 6237:2015-11-22  le/rn hppavilion[1]/HP pays $3.5m a year to name an arena in San Jose after him. \ 5917:2015-08-22  learn hppavilion[1] se describe en las notas al pie. \xc2\xbfPorqu\xc3\xa9
21:47:21  `dowg hppavilion1
21:47:23  11916:2019-08-26  `` perl -pi -e\'s"(jokes)"movie spoilers or $1"\' wisdom/hppavilion1 \ 5743:2015-06-25  revert \ 5742:2015-06-25  learn hppavilion1 is ZombieCheney \ 5607:2015-06-18  ` sed -i -e \'s/\\w\\+ \\w\\+ //\' -e \'s/leave them/be left/\' wisdom/hppavilion1 \ 5606:2015-06-18  learn hppavilion1 is higgledy piggledy / hp pavilion / doesn\'t like jokes that are / written in text; // 
21:47:52  . o O ( lol )
21:47:56  `? hppavilion1
21:47:57  higgledy piggledy / hp pavilion / doesn't like movie spoilers or jokes that are / written in text; // uncontroversially, / one in a million is / roughly the chance they won't / be left perplexed
21:48:03  Hello, shachaf!
21:48:11  Are you serious?
21:48:16  Yes!
21:48:22  What perfect rhythm.
21:49:38  shachaf: And re. ESB: While the tides of battle in the Great Spoiler War have clearly let lay that sufficiently old movies are fair game, I sometimes lay awake at night, fondly picturing a world where even the ending of Citizen Kane is protected for future generations
21:51:49  if a movie can be spoiled with a single sentence it probably isn't a good movie hth
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23:28:37  shachaf: I can think of some really good movies that have a big exciting twist, but I'm not sure it really spoils enjoyment of the movie to know what's coming
23:28:45  I think people have studied it and concluded it usually doesn't
23:30:12  I think my statement was probably too strong, depending on what you mean by "spoil"
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