< 1567641622 691598 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1567642137 790547 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1567642207 211892 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1567643855 923558 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :any other comments about the specs before i re-paste? < 1567644147 304666 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://paste.ee/p/tloTh updated repaste post Sgeo__'s suggestions... < 1567644207 186285 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :replaces paste from 19:32:22 edt < 1567646206 231518 :strangleloop!63cb90bb@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.99.203.144.187 JOIN :#esoteric < 1567646491 212029 :strangleloop!63cb90bb@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.99.203.144.187 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1567646913 998630 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric > 1567647223 857922 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65959&oldid=65957 5* 03Trickbrain26 5* (+15) 10/* T */ > 1567647293 69254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Trickcode14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65960&oldid=65954 5* 03Trickbrain26 5* (-54) 10 < 1567647403 12159 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://paste.ee/p/Qek9M replaces the source code paste > 1567647613 735975 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lazy evaluation14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65961&oldid=49764 5* 03CatIsFluffy 5* (+14) 10 < 1567647654 241260 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://paste.ee/p/tloTh information and a sample program is here < 1567648298 116020 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina, consider adding it to the Esolangs wiki? (If you're willing to put into public domain). I think people often discuss languages themselves on the talk pages < 1567648340 509187 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If you don't want to put into public domain, then making a page and linking should be fine) < 1567648355 502807 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :not put the interpreter into public domain when i'm still improving the software < 1567648386 377034 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I'm not < 1567648399 406133 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I'm not putting < 1567648445 131349 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language however... < 1567648549 186301 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i'm ready < 1567648598 349691 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to see what features i can squeeze in < 1567649354 433802 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blah, just discovered that in 2018, my https://esolangs.org/wiki/BF-RLE was replaced with a more general discussion. I'm not sure how to feel about this, I felt like "BF-RLE" named a specific encoding < 1567649511 583270 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This breaks zzo38's https://esolangs.org/wiki/GrainFimple spec unless GrainFimple's spec is updated to more precisely describe what is meant by BF-RLE < 1567650165 848594 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1567650214 525033 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65962&oldid=65915 5* 03Toel F 5* (+215) 10/* Introductions */ > 1567650223 212982 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Troll Online14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=65963 5* 03Toel F 5* (+404) 10Created page with "Troll Online is a programming language builded in c#. It can connect to internet. Documentation, interpreter and the source are in this github repository: https://github.com/t..." > 1567650387 17924 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65964&oldid=65959 5* 03Toel F 5* (+19) 10 > 1567650647 595670 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65965&oldid=65929 5* 03Toel F 5* (+55) 10 > 1567650737 811795 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65966&oldid=65965 5* 03Toel F 5* (+2) 10 < 1567652559 614212 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1567653818 375058 :stux-!stux@cosmo.lunarshells.com QUIT :Quit: Aloha! < 1567653832 598194 :stux|away!stux@2a01:270:2050:1337::1 JOIN :#esoteric > 1567655393 621968 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Troll Online14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65967&oldid=65963 5* 03Toel F 5* (+1) 10 < 1567656497 264123 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1567657692 397615 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tcfdvrkeopgiegyg QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1567663848 337335 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Euphoria 5* 10New user account < 1567664695 711966 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like this? < 1567664729 106536 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: hi kmc < 1567664735 982905 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-interactive zero-knowledge proofs are tg < 1567664777 82600 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1567664790 524120 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-interactive non-zero-knowledge non-proofs < 1567664850 587013 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-interactive hugs < 1567664953 308688 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer interactive hugs I think < 1567665018 691160 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too < 1567665022 391787 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want an interactive hug < 1567665050 986563 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would like < 1567667885 216933 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1567669703 389617 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1567671691 237995 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1567671704 208729 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Client Quit < 1567673127 247920 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1567673308 794951 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1567675807 203554 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat JOIN :#esoteric < 1567675893 953128 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://paste.ee/p/FTqsX fixed typos in license and added copyright notice for spec notes + samples < 1567677925 374403 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: sort of an esoteric computer architecture plus assembler? Do feel free to make an article on the wiki linking to it! < 1567678019 328203 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :tg? < 1567681041 923033 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? tg < 1567681043 456826 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :TG is short for Turing-Gödel, the highest possible level of difficulty for a multiplayer game. At this level, it's undecidable whether you can manage to halt before losing or not. < 1567681053 170002 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this entry may be less useful than you might expect < 1567681065 414055 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: that applies to most wisdom entries < 1567681091 488433 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is way more useful than the monad one < 1567681095 253255 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? monad < 1567681096 498081 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. < 1567681100 376843 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're right < 1567682355 213495 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? kittegory < 1567682356 439151 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A kittegory is just a small category. < 1567683308 234212 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1567684091 993312 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lcjmjimeotzbksie JOIN :#esoteric < 1567684121 928147 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1567685216 567641 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1567685249 91898 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1567690151 627908 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> mconcat [\n -> [n+1], \n -> [n-1,n*2]] 4 < 1567690154 233886 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : [5,3,8] < 1567690338 967670 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\n -> mconcat [[n+1], [n-1,n*2]]) 4 < 1567690341 126962 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : [5,3,8] < 1567691471 541603 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \x -> foldl (.) id (reverse x) [] < 1567691471 840921 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip (foldl (.) id . reverse) [] > 1567692167 7567 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Garbage14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65968&oldid=63882 5* 03A 5* (-16) 10/* Syntax */ > 1567692341 889693 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Binary to unary conversion14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=65969 5* 03CarlosLuna 5* (+398) 10Asking for a general Unary to Binary conversion algorithm. < 1567692347 260027 :howlands!gilesgate@sdf-eu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1567692628 363520 :howlands!gilesgate@sdf-eu.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds > 1567693100 618297 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Trash14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=65970 5* 03A 5* (+1921) 10Created page with "[[Trash]] is an even simpler [[esoteric programming language]] that is designed to fullfill the CGCC definition of a programming language. ==Syntax== It is very simple (even s..." > 1567693182 480085 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Trash14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65971&oldid=65970 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10Typo < 1567694028 407196 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds > 1567694824 391404 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lazy evaluation14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65972&oldid=65961 5* 03A 5* (+85) 10Not yet. > 1567695054 33552 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lazy evaluation14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65973&oldid=65972 5* 03A 5* (+218) 10 > 1567695233 869745 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lazy evaluation14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65974&oldid=65973 5* 03A 5* (+123) 10 < 1567695363 786968 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently working on adding bitwise arithmatic < 1567695483 297037 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 QUIT :Quit: A la prochaine. < 1567695548 4747 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :vote for name: totem vs echidna < 1567695575 121213 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Echidna > 1567695618 605427 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lazy evaluation14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65975&oldid=65974 5* 03A 5* (+308) 10 < 1567695823 253187 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION votes for Echidna < 1567696060 247215 :howlands!gilesgate@sdf-eu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1567696724 739480 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sif.lesidhetree.com/sara/echidna/spec_notes.pdf < 1567696736 549809 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :that good? < 1567696990 201030 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which number does this Befunge code output: 9184611256>\#+:#*9-#\_$.@ < 1567697024 61085 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to know wtf the captcha is talking about as well as the answer < 1567697084 469231 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :correction: 9504611032>\#+:#*9-#\_$.@ < 1567697114 890314 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: have you tried trying to find a befunge interpreter? < 1567697128 293467 :howlands!gilesgate@sdf-eu.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1567697132 421651 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know where to find one < 1567697180 555691 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm trying to register on the wiki < 1567697287 774260 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you try using a search engine such as Google to find a befunge interpreter? < 1567697386 935946 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's one on this channel as well? < 1567697449 311266 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! befunge "olleh">:#,_@ < 1567697450 367880 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1567697480 657884 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! befunge 9504611032>\#+:#*9-#\_$.@ < 1567697481 352396 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :100512662 > 1567697500 523013 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Lykaina 5* 10New user account < 1567697550 827191 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty fizzie < 1567697553 839843 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :FWIW, the https://esolangs.org/wiki/Befunge article's "External resources" section also has a lot of interpreters, including at least two online ones. < 1567697582 619904 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the weirdist captcha i have ever seen < 1567697595 216494 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've had issues with spammers. < 1567697621 288910 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It used to be in Brainfuck, which I guess was a little more approachable? < 1567697649 859846 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And before/after that it was a quiz on languages. < 1567697697 308463 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of those were defeated; I think we're maybe assuming by just using humans (to which the current one is vulnerable as well), since it seems unlikely anyone wrote custom code for solving the Brainfuck one, for a website this unpopular. > 1567697735 927520 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65976&oldid=65962 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+166) 10/* Introductions */ < 1567697756 580443 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That introduction requirement is another anti-spam barrier.) > 1567697927 421336 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Echidna14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=65977 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+76) 10Adding a placeholder for my language. > 1567698060 88261 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65978&oldid=65964 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+14) 10/* E */ adding Echidna to language list. < 1567698087 689796 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :good? > 1567698305 981255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Echidna14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65979&oldid=65977 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+90) 10adding a link for current information < 1567698482 979298 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb shower > 1567698988 781869 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Binary to unary conversion14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65980&oldid=65969 5* 03CarlosLuna 5* (+1055) 10Adding an example of bounded Unary to Binary converter < 1567699266 122345 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1567699709 258395 :howlands!gilesgate@sdf-eu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1567700179 241087 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1567700193 166656 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the current captcha, and I could solve it without an interpreter < 1567700218 842279 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured out what the loop does, it's like making a base 9 number from those digits but there was some little twist < 1567700237 696226 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a brainfuck one would be harder < 1567700245 209962 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably need an actual interpreter for it > 1567700519 234956 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Binary to unary conversion14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65981&oldid=65980 5* 03CarlosLuna 5* (-504) 10Improving the example of bounded Unary to Binary converter > 1567700649 854523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Binary to unary conversion14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65982&oldid=65981 5* 03CarlosLuna 5* (+6) 10Adding boldface formatting < 1567700653 648737 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :gtg < 1567700683 243623 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1567701628 291707 :howlands!gilesgate@sdf-eu.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1567703117 281873 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: FWIW, the brainfuck one wasn't that bad. I think it produced a random string of the alphabet {a, b, c, d} by first forming the constant `a`, then having a sequence of +s, -s and .s with no loops. < 1567703275 197398 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, it's a base 9 number except with 9 as a sentinel value and the digits backwards because of the stack. < 1567703290 412279 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` dc -e '9i 230116405p' < 1567703291 836627 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :100512662 < 1567704136 264149 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ok, that would work < 1567704179 446808 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but does it subtract 9 from each digit before interpreting it in base 9? < 1567704223 55691 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. Well, technically yes, but only for the 'if' condition on whether the digit was 9. < 1567704309 238789 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flattened out, the relevant snippet is :9-_ aka dup-nine-minus-if; so the stack will have [x x-9] at the _ (where x is the original digit), the _ pops off the x-9 and the rest (\9*+) multiplies the accumulator by 9 and adds x to it. < 1567704351 847068 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's reusing the 9 both for the 9-_ condition (when going left-to-right) and for the 9* of the accumulator (when going right-to-left). < 1567704387 633324 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what does the ending with the dollar sign do? < 1567704408 101237 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That just drops off the extra 9. < 1567704450 31471 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The full stack at the if is [acc digit digit-9], the _ pops off digit-9 and the $ pops off digit (which in this case must've been 9, since digit-9 was zero) so that . prints the accumulator. < 1567704461 496086 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, let me look at the befunge rules, I don't remmeber them < 1567704504 340530 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, makes sense < 1567704524 316352 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also uses one of the implicit infinite number of 0s under the bottom of the stack as the initial accumulator value. < 1567704544 725920 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :...or does it. I guess it doesn't. < 1567704560 966463 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, no, I confused myself. Of course it doesn't, it would hit that sentinel. < 1567704566 110582 :howlands!gilesgate@sdf-eu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1567704588 155781 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that the last digit (the 2 there) is considered the initial accumulator, not one of the base-9 digits, arguably. < 1567704658 101587 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that looks about right < 1567704679 201276 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 9 #. 8 4 6 1 1 2 5 6 < 1567704680 65330 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 40751313 < 1567704693 47268 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, backwards < 1567704695 711173 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 9 #. |. 8 4 6 1 1 2 5 6 < 1567704696 426251 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 31480937 < 1567704709 831091 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 9 #. |. 5 0 4 6 1 1 0 3 2 < 1567704710 500661 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 100512662 < 1567704911 789995 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turns out the Brainfuck variant was mostly as I described, except with a bigger alphabet. It starts with a common initial prefix that loads 100 'd' (as 10*10), then generates a random sequence of X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X. where each of the Xs is uniformly randomly either "", "+" or "-", except the + or - is omitted if that would make the value less than 97 'a' or more than 122 'z'. < 1567704934 262050 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still pretty prone to creating strings from the beginning of the alphabet, since it starts from 'd' and does a random walk with a maximum step size of 1. < 1567704952 58761 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1567704956 639300 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in fact it can never reach 'z' because the longest sequence is 16. < 1567707611 669842 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1567708834 174850 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has Dr. Seuss ever been involved in any lawsuits? < 1567708907 386003 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@sorunome.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems at least his estate was https://boingboing.net/2019/03/14/fair-use-vs-seuss.html < 1567709222 219594 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh so some people got to say "Dr. Seuss sues [...]" :) > 1567710045 629372 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Troll Online14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65983&oldid=65967 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (+3) 10Your page might suck, but i converted the example text to headings. > 1567710188 674836 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65984&oldid=65966 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (+39) 10/* PUBERTY */ > 1567710540 510658 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Grid14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65985&oldid=65920 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+122) 10Corrected the algorithm description < 1567711074 659504 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lcjmjimeotzbksie QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1567711868 481872 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric > 1567712009 803350 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Unified HQ9+14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65986&oldid=59395 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (+28) 10 > 1567712046 726850 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Unified HQ9+14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65987&oldid=65986 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (+26) 10 < 1567714938 919557 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.5 < 1567715106 990140 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat JOIN :#esoteric < 1567715253 954528 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1567715300 12379 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xkcjpdwjpkgizdmq JOIN :#esoteric < 1567715403 146827 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i must apoligize for misleading everybody into thinking ops L and M in Echidna were functioning. In reality, I haven't even designed the code for those, much less written them. < 1567715460 498375 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm working on it < 1567715635 522063 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know the input. i know the intended output < 1567716143 680451 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :L is done < 1567716155 879018 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :but untested < 1567716421 277828 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1567716543 763109 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1567716933 681600 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for M now < 1567717480 253526 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :M isn't working right... < 1567717638 370095 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither is L < 1567718136 356779 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :since when does 0xff6a == 0xffb5? < 1567718143 53142 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :grrr < 1567718450 201631 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 0xAAAA xor 0x5555 = 0xFFFE ? < 1567718705 466438 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 0xFFFF AND 0xFFFF = 0xFFFE ? < 1567718718 465939 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :something weird is going on < 1567718849 981031 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1567718978 117608 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :0xFFFF AND 0xFFFF = 0xFFFE, 0xFFFE AND 0xFFFF = 0xFFFC ? where's the bug? I demand you show me, codeblocks < 1567719022 693010 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1567719248 775688 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed operation M < 1567719425 140957 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :and L < 1567719574 231643 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's two letters down < 1567719790 434146 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1567719832 819676 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was shifting the output to the left by 1 too much < 1567720037 245793 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :updated Echidna's documentation file < 1567720164 946637 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a self-hosted pdf on the Echidna page. Not ready to be public domain. < 1567720844 132933 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought about morphism composition notations and about (more or less natural) notations for application of a linear operator or its adjoint to a (co)vector and found out I think a very funny thing < 1567721019 927717 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose A: U → V, B: V → W, v ∈ U, f ∈ W*, then if we agree to write Av for the application of A to v, it’s for a couple of reasons (regarding left and right modules, and also matrix notation) natural to write fB* for the application of B* to f. Now, < 1567721142 568130 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can end with * altogether (we have a type system to back us!) and write fB. Then we can write fBAv, for example. And now notice that BA here can denote both B <<< A and B* >>> A* < 1567721165 199602 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is fun < 1567721338 742617 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not here, but standalone also. But invoking fBAv beforehand could appeal for this notation choice < 1567721385 996694 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it reminds me of lenses now, and not without a reason) < 1567721398 974482 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye I hope this was interesting > 1567721518 897384 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Echidna14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65988&oldid=65979 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+137) 10adding a link for an interpreter. < 1567721612 481059 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :can someone look at what i linked about echidna and help me figure out what kind of esolang it is? < 1567721648 183271 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to have a description on there at least. < 1567721692 910424 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1567721701 259442 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like an assembly language to me < 1567721702 862085 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1567721709 903758 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1567721860 212391 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1567721952 989602 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : > 1567722202 384183 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Echidna14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65989&oldid=65988 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+106) 10a little description < 1567724468 72729 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: so are the comparison, divide, modulus and shift right arithmetic instruction unsigned ones, and is there no signed less than instruction? < 1567724507 877744 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: and are those bitwise instructions the only way to do an indirect load (as opposed to an indirect store, for which you have a specific instruction)? that will lead to a lot of use of those bitwise thingies with redundant arguments I think < 1567724562 932878 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems a bit odd that indirect load works that way, but you seem to allow immediate operands basically everywhere < 1567724568 950229 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a strange instruction set < 1567724569 397899 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: you just reminded me of the "load data by rotating it ten times" trick that's sometimes used in Malbolge < 1567724718 205844 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: also I find the spec a bit hard to read and unclear, but it's not as bad as some of the things we see on the wiki < 1567724718 457437 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Did you go to the thing? < 1567724737 67838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what thing? < 1567724752 464206 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://events.cs.bham.ac.uk/syco/strings3-syco5/ < 1567724762 908314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1567724776 948971 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not all that interested in string diagrams < 1567724781 362680 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1567724785 109667 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm fairly busy with other things at work < 1567724795 962438 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, what about compositional structures? < 1567724798 709885 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway that makes sense. < 1567724801 919422 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been known to go to locally hosted conferences that I'm only tangentially interested in, but not this time < 1567724932 122966 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only went to locally hosted conferences where I was actually at least somewhat interested in the topic at the time, but of course within conferences I listened to talks in which I'm not too interested, if there isn't a better talk available in another track, < 1567724960 627850 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I definitely went to PhD dissertations where I wasn't interested in the topic, because those are social events for meeting friends and the thesis topic doesn't matter < 1567725180 306012 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PhD defences/vivas aren't public in the UK (I know this differs between countries) < 1567725185 747922 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just the candidate and the examiners < 1567725190 311021 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the... < 1567725192 250956 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's odd < 1567725200 839078 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're always public here, they have to be < 1567725210 362531 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they'd be hard to watch because the examiners are supposed to have learned everything from the PhD thesis already < 1567725219 893844 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I think there may be closed ones if they're like connected to classified military stuff < 1567725226 740075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they jump straight into asking technical questions about it, there'd basically be no context for anyone else < 1567725290 55923 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is there a formal celebration open to public after, or do the graduates skip right to the pub run? < 1567725295 797888 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see the argument in wanting the candidate to give a presentation on the topic of their PhD and defend that, I guess it comes down to whether it's more important to defend the principle or the details < 1567725324 917004 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't get the verdict right away, it comes by post a few weeks later after the examiners have discussed, and is normally several pages full of things they're concerned about and want correcting < 1567725345 589262 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you make the corrections and resubmit < 1567725364 473463 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, there is a closed part within the public defense, namely the part after all the questions when the committee discuss their decision, and for that part everyone else is ordered out of the room < 1567725371 572798 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when they're finally happy you get told you're accepted, and then there are mass graduation ceremonies you can go to if you want a big official celebration < 1567725376 618121 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I describe this in a comment, let me find the link < 1567725392 628401 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the UK method is pretty good at avoiding, say, fallacious proofs < 1567725406 589178 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if it's unclear how much effort they'll take to fiix < 1567725461 711682 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the UK still do snake fights? < 1567725513 578493 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of the UK, I'm a bit confusil about what's going on with parliament nowadays. < 1567725520 291219 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea; I have a suspicion they'd be illegal, which doesn't mean they wouldn't happen but does mean I'd be unlikely to be aware of them if they did < 1567725520 552277 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :found it: http://www.madore.org/cgi-bin/comment.pl/showcomments?href=http%3a%2f%2fwww.madore.org%2f~david%2fweblog%2f2015-12.html%23d.2015-12-05.2340#comment-22088 < 1567725552 665397 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean mandatory snake fights after your thesis defense. < 1567725561 678746 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't have one of those < 1567725563 208825 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so probably not? < 1567725577 295885 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google snake fight thesis defense < 1567725578 74770 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/faq-the-snake-fight-portion-of-your-thesis-defense < 1567725609 626007 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: members of the committee get the thesis well in advance, suppoedly read it and understand it, and even send questions to the candidate at least a few days before the defense, < 1567725629 755003 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for what's going on in parliament, right now nothing, Commons won't be back until Monday, Lords are asleep but will probably be approving the EUWA #6 tomorrow (they agreed to meet on Friday, which they normally don't, to get enough time to approve it) < 1567725654 274485 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's happened over the past couple of days is more interesting < 1567725690 244561 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: about the parliament, I think because of conflicting promises, they have to sarifice two or three prime ministers every year, so that they can remain in the EU but have someone take the blame for the government not keeping their promise of exiting the EU < 1567725690 628501 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically there's a new prime minister (because the old prime minister resigned, the new prime minister is appointed by the same party that the old one came from) < 1567725739 469052 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand the prime minister part, what I don't understand is in what way the queen was involved < 1567725749 820477 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1567725762 805825 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1567725766 14092 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: we don't have mandatory snake fights for PhD defenses here either < 1567725780 408132 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Odd. Maybe it's an American tradition. < 1567725782 386692 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is some concern among MPs that he will attempt to leave the EU with no agreements in place, which became much greater when he announced that parliament would be prorogued (basically shut down) until mid-October, when there might not be time to agree on a course of action < 1567725842 527046 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Finnish thesis defence has a /lectio præcursoria/ in the front, and IIRC it's typically the only part done in Finnish (because normally the opponents are from abroad, and the thesis is in English) and I think it's mostly there so that the candidate's family has something for them as well. < 1567725843 705053 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's possible that some people fight snakes, because the less formal part of the celebration afterwards usually involves heavy drinking, but I'm quite sure it's not mandatory < 1567725861 602867 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the snake fight is not mandatory that is, the heavy drinking is < 1567725899 332393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a while ago, because some of the Prime Minster's competitors in the (Conservative Party-internal) leadership debate had threatened to shut down parliament to prevent them interfering with Conservative plans for Brexit, a Northern Ireland-related bill got amended to force regular updates in Parliament on the situation in Northern Ireland, purely for the side effect of forcing Parliament to be open whilst not being offtopic < 1567725909 667842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why Parliament can't be shut down until beyond mid-October < 1567725958 671947 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I went to one thesis examination while in Leuven for a while, and all the questioning part was in Flemish, which made it a little hard to follow for me. < 1567725964 804547 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the prorogation doesn't start until next week, and there's a clear majority among Members of Parliament (and Members of the House of Lords) that we shouldn't leave the EU without an agreement in place as to how it's done < 1567725973 864390 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hmm, that FAQ says it can involve both venomous snakes and snakes with physical attacks < 1567726023 886314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they've been trying to rush through an emergency law to prevent it happening (known the European Union (Withrdawal) Act No. 6), and the Government (i.e. the Prime Minister + allies) have been trying to stop them < 1567726093 108562 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that sufficiently many MPs in the Conservative Party, together with almost all the MPs outside, disagree with the Prime Minister; this lead to some (~20) Conservatives voting against party line in order to get the EUWA #6 through, despite the Prime Minister threatening to throw them out of the party < 1567726100 334808 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did the conservative party kick out all the people who voted against the act? < 1567726118 441778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes! and as a result they no longer have a majority, i.e. they have less than half of the MPs even if you count allies < 1567726120 850834 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: would this be a normal summer break of the parliament, or a special break? < 1567726130 697232 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :We had a "Brexit info" email at work for all UK employees today. The email just said the situation is "fluid" and that there's nothing new to report. < 1567726134 803881 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: we just had our normal summer break (it ended on Tuesday) < 1567726144 161812 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, I understood they lost their majority but I wasn't sure whether they'd left themselves or were kicked out. < 1567726150 987329 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's normally a small break over October, this is theoretically that break but it's been made way longer < 1567726163 353309 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they lost the majority even before the rebel alliance got kicked out? < 1567726166 265877 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: one left of their own accord, the others were kcked out < 1567726171 333348 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know one person joined the liberal democrats but the rest (including the father of the house?) are now just independent? < 1567726172 15642 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of that one defection, right. < 1567726188 640805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest are independent unless or until they join a party or form a new party < 1567726219 914993 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I think many of them are planning to be independent until the next election and then leave politics (some want to stay but may have problems being elected with the Conservatives running against them) < 1567726227 639597 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if the party kicks out their members, then don't they get replaced by other people on the party's list? < 1567726236 400438 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: no, we elect MPs not parties < 1567726239 542372 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for parliament seats that is < 1567726242 313808 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1567726254 143715 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :getting rid of an MP is almost impossible, there are only two ways < 1567726292 924703 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange < 1567726301 949367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a) if the MP is convicted of a sufficiently serious crime, then a petition of 10% of their constituents can force a new election (but they can run for the election if they want to; so far this has proven to be a bad idea but it hasn't stopped some MPs trying) < 1567726321 422077 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b) MPs automatically get fired if they accept money from the Queen < 1567726342 803478 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't there also a new MP if the old one dies? < 1567726354 745727 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, yes, but I wouldn't recommend killing MPs < 1567726370 466224 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't have to be killed < 1567726371 319502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :point b) here is mostly used as a loophole for MPs to voluntarily step down, because they aren't legally allowed to resign; the Queen maintains a couple of useless jobs purely for the purpose of hiring MPs that want to resign < 1567726372 945780 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can die otherwise < 1567726414 109694 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of them is a job hunting down outlaws in the Chiltern Hills, which became irrelevant ages ago because a) we have police and b) outlaws don't really exist as a concept any more < 1567726420 372761 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's vacant execept when an MP needs to resign < 1567726431 84306 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not theoretical, because Antall József died while he was minister-president, and got replaced by a different minister-president because he died < 1567726446 914206 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh man. That's pretty good. < 1567726456 94153 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1567726459 797942 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's indeed nice < 1567726470 302116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the Commons passed through all the stages of the EUWA #6 in a single day, so now the Lords have to confirm it < 1567726471 350622 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, we have had positions just to pay people, without a real job < 1567726507 658626 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was an attempted filibuster but the Lords have a huge majority against the Prime Minister's position, so the filibusterers gave up at about 1:30am < 1567726522 670000 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They submitted 100 amedments to the bill, right? < 1567726537 727523 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the opposition Lords were taking it seriously, though; they had a rota set up, and brought lots of food, sleeping bags, etc. to the House of Lords to make sure they could outlast their much smaller number of political opponents) < 1567726539 76960 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1567726542 942550 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sl a < 1567726545 850766 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did they give up on them? < 1567726555 299835 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*so an amendment can be dealt with in a few seconds if there's no real support or no real opposition to it < 1567726572 24372 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :show of hands or voice vote, move on < 1567726587 904207 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"opposition lords" means opposed to the majority in the house of lords, or opposed to the government? < 1567726589 203846 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for a filibuster to work, you need sufficiently many Lords on your side that the verdict is unclear < 1567726596 27934 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: opposed to the government < 1567726602 826238 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you don't elect parties, then how are the members of the parliament chosen? < 1567726626 18270 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the lower house at least < 1567726639 311990 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the funny thing is, the Lords have a built in Conservative majority because they move so slowly, but (because they move slowly and the Conservatives have changed position rapidly recently) the Conservatives in the Lords are mostly opposed to the Prime Minister < 1567726655 349975 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of bizarre that filibusters are still a thing that nominally works, rather than being treated as bad faith. < 1567726661 919113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: basically we get a list of candidates for each constituency; if you're standing for a party that's listed on the ballot for information < 1567726710 214683 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and delegates from constituencies fill all places in the lower chamber? < 1567726723 271208 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the UK version works fairly well I think? a) it only works in the Lords, not the Commons, and the Lords can't block a bill indefinitely, only delay it; b) it lets a really determined minority delay a bill for a while but you have to keep talking / keep voting / etc. so if the minority is too small you won't have the stamina, and if they aren't committed enough they won't bother < 1567726745 898843 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the smaller the minority filibustering, the less effort it'll take from the majority to break the filibuster, as their anti-filibuster rota will be easy to set up) < 1567726752 986028 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: right < 1567726776 434443 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think the US has some such system too < 1567726786 656094 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they have states, so it makes more sense < 1567726842 770533 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the US senate it seems that people are slowly changing the rules to get rid of filibusters in various contexts. < 1567726853 440073 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the filibuster in this circumstance was pretty unique as the Lords need to get the EUWA #6 through before Parliament gets prorogued, which could happen on Monday (the prorogation order was vague as to the exact date, but it's some time next week) < 1567726885 539985 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't the prorogation get delayed while people are actively filibustering? < 1567726915 265422 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect the US congress is more pathological than the UK system. < 1567726920 943152 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they can keep up for that long, that is, which isn't easy < 1567726933 166332 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the pro-Government minority would only have to last a few days, but a) they were too small and b) they may have stopped due to optics (also, possibly there was a deal brokered between the two sides, but IIRC people are denying it) < 1567726940 639540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: no, the date's absolute < 1567726959 377347 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1567726965 492365 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's nominally done by the monarch anyway, right? < 1567726977 81899 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, but she has to follow the advice of the Prime Minister < 1567727011 763684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well, "has to"; it's unlikely that the monarchy would dare break that particular convention, but laws don't technically apply to them, so in theory the Queen could do pretty much any thing < 1567727069 280461 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of funny how Borris (our local nickname) says the prorogation has nothing to do with Brexit, and how there's plenty of time to talk about Brexit when it's over. < 1567727086 235328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"plenty of time" = about 2 weeks < 1567727094 346718 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't enough to implement most suggested solutions < 1567727100 366121 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. 2 weeks isn't enough time to hold an election < 1567727173 506726 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(shachaf: on the subject of elections, the prime minister attempted to call one after losing the EUWA #6 vote, but didn't have the votes even to do that; the opposition want to get EUWA #6 through first before calling an election, due to potential issues like using the election to dissolve Parliament for the /rest/ of the time before October 31…) < 1567727212 488602 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is calling general elections common? < 1567727246 946205 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's odd < 1567727289 75747 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used to be that the prime minister could call elections unilaterally, and would do so when they thought they had the best chance of their party being re-elected / gaining a larger majority < 1567727327 899067 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :electing a prime minister directly seems such an odd thing to do, exactly because it can get you into these strange situations where their government can't function because they don't have the support of the parliament < 1567727329 505129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then the Liberal Democrat / Conservative coalition government happened, and the Liberal Democrats were concerned that the Conservatives would just call an election as soon as they thought they could get rid of the Lib Dems < 1567727370 811056 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so as part of the "price" for the coalition, the Lib Dems passed a law that made it almost impossible to call an election unless a) everyone agreed on it or b) the Prime Minister lost their majority < 1567727414 198801 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, b) has actually happened, but the opposition are delaying the official no-confidence vote (that tests if a majority exists) until after EUWA #6 goes through < 1567727422 839256 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1567727429 182240 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, it makes more sense that way < 1567727453 832799 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so everyone knows that the Prime Minister has lost their majority but it hasn't officially been tested, so they're still notionally in charge for the time being < 1567727469 463318 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's also why they need the filibuster? < 1567727493 918766 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the filibuster was an attempt to prevent EUWA #6 passing, but it's already failed < 1567727504 395861 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so EUWA #6 is quite likely to pass some time tomorrow < 1567727516 522616 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also odd: this one/two/three-line whip thing, which apparently is the number of times the instruction is underlined. < 1567727530 284744 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1567727536 816797 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also zero, but that's equivalent to not whipping at all < 1567727537 525553 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've got a charmingly quaint parliamentary system. < 1567727574 709399 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual numbers of lines aren't really defined < 1567727576 547799 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Probably that's what happens when you've had one so long.) < 1567727603 381181 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conservative MPs ignored three-line whips under Theresa May quite frequently and nothing happened to them, probably because she'd lost control of the party (and ended up having to resign) < 1567727649 313662 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, in Boris Johnson's first vote, he threatened to expel anyone from the party who voted against it, and then actually did, but given the numbers he's probably /also/ lost control of (a different subset of) the party < 1567727746 770895 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so have the leaders of those who were expelled from the party started three new parties, each of them claiming to be the one true successor to the conservative party, which has lost its, uh, approval of the people or whatever fancy phrase they use < 1567727761 170080 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's how parties tend to die here < 1567727800 362342 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there was a party of breakaway MPs (and technically still is), who have changed their name at least twice since and have lost many MPs < 1567727804 804384 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not doing too well < 1567727821 747761 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's how Orbán got his continued rule basically, because every other significant party fell apart that way < 1567727825 433529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the people expelled from the Conservatives recently are mostly still independents, but that's not surprising given how recent it was < 1567727853 141007 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :might take some more months I guess < 1567727874 408814 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :several MPs who have defected from Conservatives or Labour over Brexit have since joined the LIberal Democrats (traditional third party; the Scottish National Party are larger but don't get any real support outside Scotland) < 1567727894 608039 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1567727902 655453 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also calling back to the thesis discussion, in Finland actually the bit that keeps things free of errors and the quality bar high enough is the "preliminary examination", which is done offline, takes some weeks, and all but guarantees that everyone who gets to the public examination stage will pass it. < 1567727924 456574 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is there a mandatory fight with a snake? < 1567727938 55073 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: right, the preliminary examination stage is basically the entire thing for us < 1567727976 406220 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that after it, the corrections period can be very long (the length depends on how many corrections there are and how large they are, but is normally 3 or 6 months if the thesis is well-received, more if it has major problems) < 1567727981 491787 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: No, Finland isn't that known for snakes. We've got just that one poisonous one.