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01:17:44 <shachaf> kmc: do you know about intel's thing where you're required to mark valid branch targets with an otherwise-nop instruction
01:18:39 <shachaf> though apparently returns don't count as indirect branches for this purpose
01:18:46 <shachaf> and they have some other thing for that
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01:25:58 <kmc> "required"?
01:26:15 <shachaf> I mean, if whatever this feature is is enabled.
01:26:55 <shachaf> Apparently ARM has this too, with bti ("branch target indicator").
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01:44:39 <kmc> what's the point?
01:44:59 <kmc> what's intel's version called?
01:45:01 <kmc> and how do you enable it?
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01:45:31 <kmc> ah, it's for security?
01:45:37 <kmc> that's kind of clever
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01:47:50 <shachaf> The Intel version is called CET (Control-flow Enforcement Technology).
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03:19:25 <kmc> I made a self-deleting shell script
03:19:37 <kmc> it's generated by another script, intended to be edited once and then deleted
03:19:46 <kmc> edited, run once*
03:23:06 <HackEso> echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit \ Taneb \ atriq \ Ngevd \ nvd \ Fiora \ Sgeo \ ThatOtherPerson \ alot
03:23:29 <kmc> for sale: shell script, never run
03:23:37 <HackEso> 5366:2015-05-12 <brewn̈a> frq -v "5vaiq" ova/fyvfg \ 5075:2014-10-18 <abegg̈v> frq -v \'/abeggv/q\' ova/fyvfg \ 5073:2014-10-18 <brewn̈a> erireg \ 5072:2014-10-18 <brewn̈a> erireg 5069 \ 5070:2014-10-18 <brewn̈a> frq -v \'f|ez ova/fyvfg; ||\' ova/fyvfg \ 5069:2014-10-18 <brewn̈a> erireg \ 5068:2014-10-16 <Gnar̈o> fyvfg \ 3924:2013-10-18 <Ovẍr> erireg \ 3923:2013-10-18 <Ftr̈b> fyvfg Arjf: Tvtncnhfr \ 3920:2013-10-18 <funpun̈s> frq -v \'f/rkvg/ez
03:23:51 <kmc> also I learned that bash printf has a %q format specifier which escapes the parameter for use in further bash commands
03:23:57 <HackEso> 5366:2015-05-12 <oerjän> sed -i "5invd" bin/slist \ 5075:2014-10-18 <nortẗi> sed -i \'/nortti/d\' bin/slist \ 5073:2014-10-18 <oerjän> revert \ 5072:2014-10-18 <oerjän> revert 5069 \ 5070:2014-10-18 <oerjän> sed -i \'s|rm bin/slist; ||\' bin/slist \ 5069:2014-10-18 <oerjän> revert \ 5068:2014-10-16 <Tanëb> slist \ 3924:2013-10-18 <Bik̈e> revert \ 3923:2013-10-18 <Sgëo> slist News: Gigapause \ 3920:2013-10-18 <shachäf> sed -i \'s/exit/rm
03:23:58 <kmc> `` echo "foo ' bar" | printf "%q\n"
03:24:19 <kmc> `` printf "%q\n" "foo ' bar"
03:24:22 <kmc> there we go
03:24:24 <shachaf> kmc: Oh, that's pretty fancy.
03:24:41 <shachaf> If you're writing bash commands something has gone wrong, though. :-(
03:24:46 <kmc> you can also do ${X|@Q} in more recent bashes
03:25:05 <kmc> life involves lots of things going wrong
03:25:11 <kmc> and yet we muddle through
03:26:11 <shachaf> i wrote a small amd64 assembler
03:26:23 <shachaf> it supports movs and jumps so maybe it's turing-complete?
03:26:38 <shachaf> except for the finite-state bit
03:28:34 <kmc> why'd you do it?
03:31:23 <shachaf> I just wanted to generate some code and I was tired of handwriting it.
03:34:11 <kmc> why not use nasm or something?
03:37:47 <shachaf> Seems silly to go through a whole program that has to parse text and everything?
03:37:57 <shachaf> Maybe nasm is available as a library.
03:40:01 <kmc> i support your efforts anyway
03:40:04 <kmc> writing an assembler is fun
03:40:09 <kmc> it could be
03:40:15 <kmc> is it a 2 pass thing
03:40:43 <kmc> does it generate relocatable files?
03:42:16 <shachaf> it's a v. simple 1-pass assembler that always uses 4-byte jump offsets and so on, right now
03:42:30 <shachaf> smart assemblers presumably use more than two passes for edge cases
03:43:42 <shachaf> It generates ELF executables right now.
03:43:48 <shachaf> I guess they're dynamically relocatable?
03:44:07 <shachaf> It doesn't support non-internal linkage or anything.
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03:54:12 <kmc> did you use a library to output ELF
03:56:03 <shachaf> no, i wrote out all the bytes
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04:10:58 <esowiki> [[Talk:ZOWIE]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66231&oldid=66213 * Ais523 * (-23) /* Turing completeness */ use the correct link syntax for an internal link
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07:37:17 <shachaf> Huh, when you write code in continuation-passing style, you should name the continuation "return".
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09:04:18 <fizzie> I thought you should name it "k".
09:04:31 <shachaf> Only if you're reasonable.
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10:08:46 <fizzie> Does the k stand for "kontinuation"?
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11:22:16 <myname> do you develop stickers?
11:22:35 <cpressey> fizzie: κ is very traditional, if your chosen notation supports it.
11:28:15 <cpressey> I've been reduced to translating some code of mine from Haskell to Javascript so that I can debug it.
11:28:48 <Taneb> cpressey: that's a depth of hell I've never visited
11:32:25 <cpressey> Perhaps it isn't the best idea
11:32:28 <wib_jonas> can't you put printfs in the Haskell code?
11:32:51 <cpressey> uneval(function(x) { return x; }) === "(function(x) { return x; })"
11:33:16 <cpressey> But can I say "deriving (Show)" for a function value in Haskell? Not as far as I'm aware.
11:34:32 <wib_jonas> dunno. you could ask #haskell but you already said they're too abstract and category theorist for you
11:39:58 <fizzie> `js uneval(function(x) { return x; });
11:39:59 <HackEso> [eval]:1 \ uneval(function(x) { return x; }); \ ^ \ \ ReferenceError: uneval is not defined \ at [eval]:1:1 \ at Object.exports.runInThisContext (vm.js:54:17) \ at Object.<anonymous> ([eval]-wrapper:6:22) \ at Module._compile (module.js:409:26) \ at node.js:648:27 \ at nextTickCallbackWith0Args (node.js:489:9) \ at process._tickCallback (node.js:418:13)
11:40:12 <fizzie> Apparently you can't say that in "JavaScript" either.
11:41:48 <fizzie> (It's apparently unique to Firefox.)
11:42:11 <myname> you can do that in lisp, though
11:42:36 <fizzie> `js (function(x) { return x; }).toString();
11:42:37 <HackEso> function (x) { return x; }
11:42:41 <fizzie> Looks like you can do that on nodejs.
11:48:09 <wib_jonas> but does it give you only the body, or also the identity of the closed variables?
11:50:32 <fizzie> I think it's only the source text.
11:51:49 <fizzie> `js function f(x) { return function(){return x+1} } f(1).toString() + f(2).toString();
11:51:50 <HackEso> function (){return x+1}function (){return x+1}
11:52:42 <fizzie> I just added it to replace the broken previous `js, so it doesn't have an entry anywhere.
11:53:28 <fizzie> The previous one was I think Rhino. But it got broken in the migration because there's no JRE installed on the system.
11:55:07 <fizzie> `js process.versions.v8
11:55:16 <fizzie> I guess strictly speaking that's the "engine".
11:56:02 <fizzie> `js JSON.stringify(process.versions)
11:56:06 <HackEso> {"http_parser":"2.7.0","node":"4.8.2","v8":"4.5.103.46","uv":"1.9.1","zlib":"1.2.8","ares":"1.10.1-DEV","icu":"57.1","modules":"46","openssl":"1.0.2k"}
12:03:43 <cpressey> Yeah, it wasn't the best idea. But I don't know where y'all're getting this "depth of hell" stuff from, Javascript's a lovely language!
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12:04:22 * cpressey tries hard to keep a straight face
12:08:25 <wib_jonas> cpressey: of course it seems enticing at first.
12:08:50 <wib_jonas> it only reveals its true face once you've invested enough to no longer be able to change your existing code to a different language easily.
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12:14:59 <arseniiv> wow what a weather. September onwards until snow falls, here are usually rains only. Now I heard thunder two times, and tiny ice chunks fall. Didn’t think convection is still good enough, given there weren’t thunderstorms for weeks
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12:49:11 <esowiki> [[Fishing]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66232&oldid=66211 * Dtuser1337 * (+24)
13:04:39 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66233&oldid=66135 * Dtuser1337 * (+73) /* > */
13:06:16 <esowiki> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66234&oldid=66210 * Dtuser1337 * (+57) /* FiM++ */
13:06:58 <esowiki> [[Fishing]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66235&oldid=66232 * Dtuser1337 * (-12) /* Hello, World! */ why adding <pre> when there a space before it.
13:08:19 <esowiki> [[Turth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66236&oldid=65569 * Dtuser1337 * (+22)
13:10:51 <esowiki> [[Talk:MSM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66237&oldid=65203 * Dtuser1337 * (-41) Nani!? This must be the work of a enemy stand! they blanked the page and removed the redirect!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111111 this is awfullll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111!!!!!!!111111111!!!!!!!!
13:14:34 <esowiki> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66238&oldid=66101 * Dtuser1337 * (+2696)
13:15:00 <esowiki> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66239&oldid=66238 * Dtuser1337 * (-1) /* commands */
13:27:07 <esowiki> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66240&oldid=66239 * Dtuser1337 * (+66) /* commands */
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15:20:14 <esowiki> [[Flop]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66241&oldid=65750 * InfiniteDonuts * (-239)
15:41:06 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/move]] move * InfiniteDonuts * moved [[Flop]] to [[Brainflop]]: Name changed
15:41:20 <esowiki> [[Brainflop]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66244&oldid=66242 * InfiniteDonuts * (+5)
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16:33:53 <esowiki> [[Hexar]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=66245 * Enchant3d * (+6052) Created page with "'''Hexar''' is an [[esoteric programming language]] which uses almost only hexadecimal numbers. ==Language overview== Hexar runs on an array that can contain only positive num..."
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16:35:06 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66246&oldid=66223 * Enchant3d * (+12) /* H */
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16:46:56 <esowiki> [[ABC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66247&oldid=65492 * Dtuser1337 * (+59)
18:29:12 <esowiki> [[@NUM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66248&oldid=66209 * KrystosTheOverlord * (-4261)
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19:56:05 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Tetratrary * New user account
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21:05:08 <shachaf> Are there any interesting esolangs based on the idea of jumping into the middle of an instruction?
21:06:02 <b_jonas> dunno. you can do that in a lot of low-level languages, but I don't know any that really require it
21:06:21 <shachaf> I know you can do it but usually it's only in special cases.
21:06:43 <shachaf> I'm thinking of a language where doing things like that is required to do computation.
21:07:22 <olsner> maybe you could advance the instruction pointer by one byte instead of the size of an instruction (and have all instructions be at least 2 bytes large to make it interesting)
21:07:37 <b_jonas> shachaf: there might be something like bytepusher, but that modifies an instruction as it executes it. I might have even seen one but I don't recall which esolang
21:08:32 <shachaf> I guess more broadly you could ask for something that interprets the same instructions multiple different ways.
21:10:11 <b_jonas> shachaf: that's a bit easier. Piet can interpret the same instruction in different ways
21:10:51 <b_jonas> heck, even in befunge we have instructions that we use in multiple ways depending on the direction of execution
21:11:03 <b_jonas> that should count as similar to jumping into the middle of an instruction
21:11:11 <shachaf> It's funny that these disassemble differently:
21:11:17 <HackEso> 0: e9 00 00 00 00 jmpq 0x5
21:14:19 <b_jonas> shachaf: I think that's because the `asm command guesses different assembly syntaxes from your input
21:18:18 <b_jonas> Forte, SMETANA, ///, Fuun DNA are all self-modifying, and in an interesting way where the self-modifying entails more than just modifying plain memory offset or immediate operands of instructions, but I don't think you could say that you usually jump into the middle of an instruction in them
21:18:37 <b_jonas> even though in /// and Fuun DNA, you could overlap instructions in interesting ways if you wanted to
21:18:49 <b_jonas> but that's impractical just like in x86
21:19:05 <b_jonas> so all that you normally do is to put instructions as arguments into other instructions
21:19:15 <b_jonas> or put parts of instructions as arguments into other instructions if you wish
21:20:05 <b_jonas> I think you can't overlap instructions in MiniMAX
21:20:51 <b_jonas> in fact iiuc, MiniMAX does essentially require you to overlap instructions if you want to write useful programs
21:20:56 <b_jonas> shachaf: that's your answer, you want MiniMAX
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22:36:36 <fizzie> Today's possible GCC bug: with `#define b +` as the context, the expression `0b10` is either treated as a binary literal (-std=c11) or an error (-std=c11 -pedantic), while in a strictly conforming implementation I believe it should be treated as `0+10`.
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22:39:56 <fizzie> Rationale: In translation phase 3 the input is decomposed into preprocessing tokens. C11 6.4p4 says "the next preprocessing token is the longest sequence of characters that could constitute a preprocessing token", which should at the start be "0" (as a pp-number), next "b" (as an identifier) and then finally "10" (again a pp-number). That sequence of tokens would then in translation phase 4 have the "b"
22:40:02 <fizzie> token undergo macro invocation to expand to "+".
22:41:20 <Lykaina> made a tiny version of echidna (unfortunately with all different letters) for my arduino
22:43:08 <int-e> fizzie: so b10 is not an identifier?
22:43:13 <shachaf> I think "#define b +" should just crash the compiler.
22:43:41 <fizzie> int-e: Oh, I guess it is. Good point.
22:43:49 <fizzie> int-e: Well, you can modify the example appropriately.
22:44:15 <fizzie> Let's say `#define b10 +10` then.
22:45:42 <fizzie> Although maybe `#define b1 -1` and `0b1` is better, it's pleasantly symmetrically either +1 or -1. Or would be if it didn't get treated as a binary literal in all cases.
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23:13:02 <Lykaina> i just saved over something i was working on for a while
23:14:53 <Lykaina> no way to effing restore the douments
23:16:36 <int-e> sucks... the only condolence I can offer is that it'll likely be better the second time
23:17:34 <HackEso> taneb:Taneb is not elliott, no matter whom you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of nine genders, one of which is a Czech woman, and above average, not too voluminous, but calm eyebrows. He sometimes invents without noticing it (see: tanebventions).
23:17:41 <HackEso> 791) <fizzie> Backups are so like one of those circus guys walking on a wire except with a safety rope. \ 1082) <fizzie> Possible business plan: data storage on the moon? <fizzie> Getting at it after the collapse of civilization here might be an issue. <boily> who cares about civilization? you have backups!
23:18:34 <int-e> This channel is populated by smart people. Sometimes it shows.
23:19:07 <fizzie> Not sure this was one of those times.
23:20:02 <shachaf> int-e: Huh. Somehow I read your 16:16 comment as starting with the word "life", several times.
23:20:11 <shachaf> The word doesn't seem to be present now. Very odd.
23:22:33 <int-e> shachaf: I went back in time and erased it, mwahahaha.
23:22:50 <shachaf> Was life better the second time?
23:26:14 <Lykaina> video game universe, everyone gets 3
23:26:29 <int-e> that seems unfair to cats
23:27:03 <HackEso> Cats are cool, but should be illegal.
23:27:14 <shachaf> Where do I express my membership in the cat fan club?
23:28:50 <int-e> That's the sole purpose of Instagram I believe.
23:30:01 <int-e> always these extrapolation problems... 0m0.175s / 0m1.565s / 0m13.975s / 2m5.592s / 18m58.191s / ???
23:30:29 <int-e> (I was estimating 3 hours and it's at 164m)
23:30:38 <Lykaina> http://sif.lesidhetree.com/sara/echidna/Echidna%20v0_11a1b_1.pdf
23:31:01 <Lykaina> http://sif.lesidhetree.com/sara/echidna/echidna-uno-doc.pdf
23:32:05 <shachaf> I wish C varargs were better.
23:32:24 <int-e> shachaf: fwiw, the statement "life sucks" would not face much opposition from my side.
23:32:46 <HackEso> ‘Life,’ said Marvin, ‘don't talk to me about life.’
23:32:47 <int-e> I'd probably limit myself to pointing out that it's better than the alternative.
23:33:23 <int-e> Well, s/pointing out/claiming/ if you like.
23:33:51 <int-e> There's potential in life. There's no potential in death.
23:33:54 <shachaf> It would be nice, I think, if C had some kind of runtime-accessible type info.
23:34:04 <shachaf> And then varargs included information about it.
23:34:29 <shachaf> I fake that for http://slbkbs.org/tmp/fmt.txt
23:35:11 <Lykaina> the thing i had to redo and was swearing about the original: http://sif.lesidhetree.com/sara/echidna/dec%20sixbit.pdf
23:36:04 <int-e> shachaf: but would it still be C then?
23:36:10 <fizzie> int-e: The ??? is 1h16m7.135s hth
23:36:29 <int-e> fizzie: we're way past that point :P
23:36:38 <shachaf> int-e: No, but I guess that's OK.
23:36:56 <shachaf> I guess I should use this language: https://github.com/pervognsen/bitwise/blob/master/notes/ion_motivation.md
23:37:58 <int-e> fizzie: https://gist.github.com/int-e/21f328a88bfd96146a5df0937b9b743d is the context... it *is* hard to predict these kind of searvhes.
23:38:37 <shachaf> What are you searching for?
23:38:44 <int-e> fizzie: but I'd fit an exponential function
23:39:00 <shachaf> My extrapolation advice is: If f(1) = 1 and f(2) = 3, f is probably TREE.
23:39:12 <int-e> shachaf: the current run is powers of two such that all but 13 of the last k digits are 9... maximizing k.
23:39:53 <int-e> shachaf: the file has results for 13 replaced with 8..12
23:40:17 <fizzie> int-e: I always fit a polynomial of degree n if given n+1 points to work with.
23:41:13 <int-e> Lykaina: see the above link... it's a C++ program
23:44:58 <shachaf> int-e: That reminds me, my "time" program only shows seconds, not minutes.
23:45:32 <shachaf> I think "time" should be built in to my shell. It should time every command it runs automatically, and give me the information if I request it.
23:45:36 <int-e> shachaf: entirely up to you
23:45:51 <int-e> arguably minutes are more human readable
23:46:52 <int-e> "but not by much" is more proper I guess
23:47:16 <shachaf> The few times I ran it on time scales where minutes were useful, I divided by 60 manually.
23:48:23 <shachaf> Man, my time program is so good. It's the best.
23:51:53 <Lykaina> did i pick the right subset of echidna for the arduino?
23:52:47 <int-e> shachaf: It's great to hear that you're happy with *something*.
23:53:02 <fizzie> Huh, there's no time program on HackEso at all.
23:53:03 <shachaf> int-e: Have I been complaining too much?
23:53:14 <fizzie> Just a shell builtin. Or maybe several of them.
23:53:55 <HackEso> /srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: time: not found
23:54:09 <HackEso> Wed Sep 18 23:54:08 UTC 2019