00:00:03 <Sgeo_> kmc, I'm also somewhat concerned about how she would treat an autistic kid.
00:00:26 <imode> considering she'd rather have a dead kid than an autistic one (for the sake of that absurd argument), yeah.
00:00:46 <arseniiv> I’ll say even, in some places, general vaccines like flu ones are prepared diluted by various unscientific crap below the standardized concentration, and it’s especially sad when people having an access to perfectly normal and tested ones are being jerks in public
00:01:11 <kmc> i'm maybe having a kid and i'm terrified they'll turn out to be autistic -- not the 'awkward and into trains' kind, that's great, but full on nonverbal screaming all the time forever :|
00:01:23 <kmc> I can see why people want someone to blame for that
00:01:55 <Sgeo_> I don't think she thinks vaccines prevent anything. I mentioned Smallpox, she goes "Maybe it was renamed like polio"
00:02:09 <kmc> you can't argue with anti-vaxxers
00:02:12 <kmc> they are impervious to logic
00:02:32 <kmc> even if her kid dies of preventable disease she'll blame someone else somehow
00:02:45 <imode> what makes otherwise reasonable people behave unreasonably.
00:02:58 <Sgeo_> I assume at least one of her kids was vaccinated at least...
00:03:07 <imode> she was probably vaccinated.
00:03:52 <imode> just gave him new material lmao.
00:04:45 <j4cbo> I’m awkward and into trains
00:05:47 <j4cbo> thinking about training across the country this winter but it’d be like $1k so ugh
00:05:59 <kmc> that's a long-ass way
00:06:08 <kmc> i took a train from texas to los angeles and that was great
00:06:10 <kmc> but that alone was 40 hours
00:06:15 <kmc> this is a fuckin big country
00:06:35 <arseniiv> need to invent a co-alarm-clock to kick myself to sleep earlier, any ideas?
00:07:35 <j4cbo> also need to figure out how to get home from whitefish
00:13:23 <arseniiv> yesterday when I was trying to sleep at last, I thought I need to say to you all what nice people you are
00:14:00 <kmc> arseniiv: https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/07/10/melatonin-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/ ?
00:14:33 <arseniiv> this channel combines many nice things
00:14:46 <kmc> it's a cool place
00:14:49 <kmc> i'm glad i came back
00:15:11 <HackEso> 796) <kmc> typed racket: anyone using a model m keyboard
00:15:34 <kmc> hi shachaf
00:15:35 <kmc> how are you?
00:17:16 <shachaf> it's way too hot here tdnh
00:17:28 <kmc> where were you?
00:17:47 <kmc> was it hot there?
00:17:59 <shachaf> somewhat, but less so than here
00:44:54 <arseniiv> I guess I’ll need to get used to f.lux. It’s somewhat weird still
00:45:25 <arseniiv> very reddish this time. As it should. But
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01:01:53 <LKoen> kmc: it's 3am and instead of going to bed I just spent a looot of time reading a long article about circadian rythms and melatonin
01:02:33 <shachaf> kmc: it's tg when you spend a few days in new york and your sleep gets shifted by a few days
01:02:39 <shachaf> and you fall asleep and wake up early
01:03:10 <kmc> LKoen: that's slatestarcodex for you
01:03:16 <kmc> LKoen: bit ironic eh
01:03:24 <kmc> `addquote <LKoen> kmc: it's 3am and instead of going to bed I just spent a looot of time reading a long article about circadian rythms and melatonin
01:03:26 <HackEso> 1335) <LKoen> kmc: it's 3am and instead of going to bed I just spent a looot of time reading a long article about circadian rythms and melatonin
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01:07:20 <int-e> LKoen: at least you didn't play civilization until 5am
01:07:29 <int-e> though I suppose you can still do that now
01:07:58 <LKoen> no, I really can't
01:08:09 <LKoen> don't underestimate my ignorance of video games
01:09:37 <LKoen> I played zelda ocarina of time when I was a kid, and got stuck in the first dungeon
01:09:56 <LKoen> which is supposed to be kind of a tutorial of what's a dungeon
01:10:10 <int-e> LKoen: Who says you have to be good at video games in order to play them.
01:10:16 <LKoen> I even couldn't finish pokemon
01:10:21 <int-e> LKoen: especially when the alternative is to get some sleep ;)
01:10:55 <int-e> LKoen: but I was actually hinting at me reading that same article right now
01:11:25 <LKoen> I'm a bit too sleepy to get subtle hints
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02:30:27 <ski> @tell LKoen next thing you'll know, you'll be saying "nychthemeron", left and right
02:31:16 * ski has a Model M, from 1986, with "Reactor Physics" burnt into the plastic, fwiw ..
03:43:12 <imode> tried my hand at implementing that graph rewriting language.
03:43:40 <imode> it's... working, I guess.
04:01:37 <imode> it's far too complicated an interpreter for what it is.
04:03:42 <imode> need to fix a bug where the matcher is binding two variables to the same vertex twice, rathe than skipping over visited vertices.
04:27:39 * ski . o O ( "Programming Languages" <http://strlen.com/programming-languages/>,"Language Design Overview" <http://strlen.com/language-design-overview/>, by Wouter van Oortmerssen )
04:33:20 <int-e> (that is quite an impressive list though)
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06:43:03 <imode> funny. P'' has 4 instructions, two of which are ( and ). the only instructions for tape control are move the tape to the right, and change the symbol of the currently selected tape cell, then move left.
06:43:12 <imode> sounds a lot like my language.
06:44:43 <imode> mainly the automatic shifting to the left. if you squint (and ignore the need for resizing), it looks like a queue..
06:48:11 <imode> I can't find anything on the intended behavior of brainfuck with unbalanced parens, nor P''.
06:50:22 <imode> probably because it, y'know... doesn't exist.
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09:05:18 <rain2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TFDG-y-EHs
09:10:04 <int-e> rain2: you're late!
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10:48:25 <cpressey> 'Entail' is to 'envelop' as 'detail' is to 'develop'
10:55:54 <fizzie> int-e: A velociraptor without the cirapto.
10:56:06 <fizzie> ..uh, I mean, without the cirator.
10:57:46 <fizzie> I was going to write a thing to run a gRPC session over a SSH pipe (not with port forwarding, just on top of the stdin/stdout streams of a SSH session), would gsrsphc be a good name, or should I just call it grpsshc?
11:01:16 <int-e> "g* secure remote s procedure hell call"
11:02:15 <fizzie> That sounds appropriate.
11:12:33 <FireFly> 'university' is to 1 as 'diversity' is to 2
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12:39:11 <cpressey> And, since it was pointed out that "tail-recursive" is a misnomer (because it also applies to functions that aren't recursive), I propose "tail-cursive" in its stead.
12:40:25 <myname> is "tail_cursive_" tail-cursive?
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13:57:03 <Taneb> A crypto crossword is where they give you the hash of all the answers
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14:00:22 <Taneb> (as opposed to a cryptic crossword)
14:00:58 <Lykaina> which is a simple substitution cipher
14:02:29 <Lykaina> i remember doing the cryptics in the paper when i was in high school
14:02:59 <Lykaina> (i had time and a good newspaper then)
14:14:12 <Lykaina> didn't know about the Holy Etaoin Shrdlu then, though. that makes it easier.
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14:35:08 <arseniiv> I forgot what my claims on the next password of the month were :′(
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19:10:20 <kmc> good morning
19:11:04 <rain2> hey kmc good morning
19:12:30 <olsner> does sed count as an esolang?
19:13:10 <kmc> i don't think so
19:13:16 <kmc> regexes make a lot of sense
19:13:24 <kmc> but i guess it can do other things
19:14:11 <olsner> I think it's mostly not an esolang, but perhaps it could've counted as one if it was freshly invented and not in widespread use
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19:20:19 <QazNotQuaz> is there anything particular i need to do if i want to make a derivative of one of the languages on the wiki?
19:20:35 <fizzie> The language might not count as an esolanguage, but arguably the "serious" sed programs count as esoprograms.
19:21:21 <fizzie> I was writing a Befunge-93 interpreter in sed at one point, though I think I never finished it.
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19:22:14 <olsner> 2D languages sounds a bit messy to interpret in sed
19:22:20 <fizzie> It looks sort of semi-complete, it's got a playfield representation and moving-around functions.
19:23:14 <fizzie> Befunge-93 has a fixed-size playfield, which makes it a little easier.
19:23:54 <fizzie> Here's a representative sample: http://ix.io/1X4N
19:24:04 <olsner> are there something like 2D regexps? I had some vague idea about making ascii games in a sed dialect using something like that
19:24:14 <fizzie> It's the bit that takes the current IP and uses it to fetch the next instruction.
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19:25:10 <fizzie> (All the numbers were in binary, unary might've been simpler.)
19:26:18 <QazNotQuaz> unary sounds painfully space-inefficient though, id think
19:27:37 <fizzie> Well, these specific numbers never go higher than 80, it's not too bad.
19:28:29 <QazNotQuaz> isn't that the whole width of your befunge-93 field?
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19:45:05 <rain2> How to define equality of lambda terms?
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19:58:20 <j4cbo> structural equality is about the only meaningful option
19:58:28 <j4cbo> you can’t tell if they’ll produce the same results
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20:00:48 <kmc> at least if you want equality to be decidable.
20:02:02 <rain2> it shouldn't be decidable
20:03:14 <imode> you have a choice between structural and semantic equality, the latter of which is not decidable.
20:06:37 <kmc> well not quite strcmp :P
20:06:54 <kmc> you have to keep track of an alpha-conversion as you go
20:15:47 <kmc> unless it's using de bruijn indices
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21:27:10 <shachaf> de bruijn indices are good for everything except anything
21:30:49 <int-e> de Buijn indices are great for syntactical comparison of lambda terms, and as a starting point for evaluation by a Krivine style machine.
21:31:13 <shachaf> de bruijn indices are great
21:31:14 <int-e> So that's two concrete use cases.
21:31:33 <int-e> Ah did I drop the 'r' while captializing (properly!)...
21:31:40 <int-e> That was not intended.
21:32:30 <int-e> shachaf: Btw, do you like this? https://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2019-09-24
21:34:14 <int-e> To my mind that is close enough to this to conflate the two in both contexts.
21:34:54 <int-e> (Join me in my war on quotation marks!)
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22:03:01 <HackEso> 1/2:988) <kmc> healthy immune system is a wonderful thing, you gotta take advantage <kmc> sometimes i eat food off the ground just to keep mine on its toes \ 108) <CakeProphet> how does a "DNA computer" work. <CakeProphet> von neumann machines? <Phantom_Hoover> CakeProphet, that's boring in the context of DNA. <Phantom_Hoover> It's just stealing the universe's work and passing it off as our own. \ 395) <Gregor> I have a WRT120N <fizzie> Gregor: The W
22:03:27 <HackEso> 2/2:RT160NL has 40 units more of... stuff. Plus an L. \ 787) <Phantom__Hoover> the scene: it is a warm summer's day in scotland, although one obscured by cloud and the fact that it is september \ 611) <CakeProphet> but yeah the caliphates expanded their empire by conquering people and then forcing them to either convert to Islam or die. [...] <oerjan> i thought it was sort of, convert to islam or pay extra taxes, but i guess it varied a lot.
22:27:11 <shachaf> Ted Chiang's new book is TG
22:28:25 <int-e> scifi, specfi, hmm, which is it?
22:29:46 <kmc> i bought a copy
22:29:52 <kmc> as an anniversary gift for my wife
22:29:55 <kmc> but i'll probably read it too
22:30:00 <kmc> this is Exhalation?
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22:41:23 <shachaf> int-e: you can read the titular story at http://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/exhalation/
22:42:11 <shachaf> then you can tell me whether it's scissor fiction or spectacle fiction
22:47:37 <int-e> I can't read this now... I'll hate it no matter what's in there.
22:49:31 <shachaf> here's a v. short story in that book: https://www.nature.com/articles/436150a
22:56:11 <kmc> the titular story is so good
22:56:19 <kmc> it was in his previous book
22:56:23 <kmc> but i guess a lot of this book is new
22:56:34 <kmc> well i know i read it before this one came out
22:57:05 <shachaf> the one-word summary is ragebcl
22:57:25 <shachaf> I guess that's not much of a spoiler.
22:57:52 <shachaf> But I like the way it's presented.
23:00:53 <int-e> fungot: do you believe in free will?
23:00:54 <fungot> int-e: well, ladies and gentlemen were assembled there. he knows that he belongs to a nation revolutionary as nature, powerful as freedom, ardent as the saltpetre which she has been herself, i believe, by a curious fnord, there has been, a real alliance between the two countries; there will be noise, and fnord, and they were forced to endure robespierre.
23:02:22 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches* ss wp ukparl youtube
23:02:31 <fungot> Selected style: ukparl (UK Parliament debates from brexit referendum to late 2018)
23:02:42 <fungot> shachaf: on a more serious point, my hon. and learned friend the member for central ayrshire, to withdraw, the timetable the government are
23:03:12 <fungot> shachaf: the it changes the government are at. that is the point, did the scottish parliament, which is currently the only other member. knowing the hon. member the leave of the house,
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23:07:07 <shachaf> my right honourable and learned friend, fungot
23:07:08 <fungot> shachaf: and the situation that, much energy and many months, and in fnord the hospital opened. the group is
23:09:26 <int-e> Hmm, what did happen in UKParl the last two days...
23:10:02 <int-e> (Besides "a lot"... The house of commons was in session for 19h total.)
23:11:34 <int-e> Oh and what's the significance of people standing behind the white line during a session?
23:13:08 <shachaf> http://www.explore-parliament.net/nssMovies/09/0928/0928_.htm ?
23:14:25 <int-e> so members of the press may be beyond the line, for example?
23:30:32 <int-e> hah. "members of opposing parties should always be two sword lengths apart"