< 1569629890 259021 :hakatashi1!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN :#esoteric < 1569629917 653920 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1569629949 497751 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I have a solution to NP. < 1569630135 51290 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What solution is that? < 1569630173 195961 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have f : 2^k -> 2 and you're looking for x such that f(x) = 1 < 1569630185 497090 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have k prisms. < 1569630212 504157 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You activate prisms until you've either activated k, or seen a blue light, and then you stop. < 1569630265 54699 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you have a partial bit string, where each R corresponds to 0, B corresponds to 1, and the rest of the bits are unknown. < 1569630318 15269 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You ask your B prism what the rest of the bits are, and then you pass that information on to each of your R prisms, along with your known bits. < 1569630344 395335 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you have a full bit string and you can test f on it. If f(x) = 1, you tell all your prisms you find a solution, and then they pass it on to their prisms, and so on. < 1569630369 181477 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are 2^k/2 worlds that just got a B, 2^k/4 worlds that got RB, and so on. < 1569631182 774408 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1569631274 892197 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1569631499 791913 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I don't understand the premise. If you stop activating prisms at the first blue flash, wouldn't you only have (for n=4) only the five worlds that saw the sequences B, RB, RRB, RRRB and RRRR? < 1569631642 965550 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I guess it doesn't work that way, because all those other worlds must have a different single-B world to talk to. < 1569631651 922620 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird stuff, though. < 1569631759 537605 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. I think that if you split yourself once into A and B, and then B activates a prism to split into C and D, there must be two copies of A as well. < 1569631770 73048 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :One connected to C and one connected to D. < 1569631795 362370 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1569631795 638917 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if you just indiscriminately activate k prisms, you get 2^(2^k-1) worlds, or something. < 1569631807 462488 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because A can talk to the original who can talk to B who can talk to C and D? < 1569631809 567381 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1569631814 936418 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's confusing < 1569631819 871724 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you implement this? < 1569631841 485758 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean, original? < 1569631869 888031 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say you take this action: You activate prism 1 and, if it flashes red, you activate prism 2. < 1569631887 10809 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it flashes blue, you type "What color did prism 2 flash?" into it. < 1569631942 765896 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way I was thinking about it, after the split to C and D, they both still have that first prism, which can't both talk to A, so there must be A_C and A_D. < 1569631957 587097 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1569631968 17162 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's the only reasonable answer. < 1569631982 551963 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Effectively A is part of B's universe, so when B splits, A must split too. < 1569632180 967706 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1569633212 85597 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's not really a directed binary tree of worlds where each of the non-leaf node represents a prism activation in the past, but rather it's an undirected tree of worlds, and every time any node activates a prism, you make a copy of the entire tree and link the (now two) prism-activating worlds together with an edge that represents what that prism connects. > 1569634714 434984 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Resource14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=66352 5* 03A 5* (+286) 10Created page with "[[Resource]] ([Re]stricted [source]) is a [[queue]]-based [[Esoteric programming language|EPL]] created with restricted source challenges in mind. It currently sucks at these..." < 1569634972 505418 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's also always a connected subgraph of Q_n (where n is the total number of prism activations that have happened in the multiverse) with all the vertices but only some of the edges. And since you're arranged for there to be n activations overall, the standard n-bit string labels of Q_n will probably be the n-bit inputs of your f. < 1569634977 523235 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've convinced myself that works. Can you buy these prisms on Amazon? < 1569635012 969995 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you invent a esolang based on this? < 1569635062 735658 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like you should be able to. < 1569635066 381205 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need some diagrams < 1569635071 260103 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah < 1569635074 543160 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like a fun esolang < 1569635080 878134 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or an esolib for some other language < 1569635104 542583 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Got to sleep now.) > 1569635116 879085 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Resource14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66353&oldid=66352 5* 03A 5* (+683) 10 < 1569635129 118737 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :'night fizzie < 1569635143 37094 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: smells like a continuation / monad, maybe < 1569635155 461231 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, you can probably implement this evaluation model using one of those < 1569635235 417777 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1569635818 482737 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Resource14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66354&oldid=66353 5* 03A 5* (+589) 10 > 1569635969 971185 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Resource14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66355&oldid=66354 5* 03A 5* (+36) 10I have to be busy for a while > 1569635999 294095 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Resource14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66356&oldid=66355 5* 03A 5* (+85) 10/* Instructions */ < 1569636488 528310 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, maybe, you can try to do in Haskell, to see if it work < 1569636549 177784 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo implement it with fork() and pipes < 1569636581 614521 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that thing i did in a past life < 1569636687 845372 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: oh, did you read _Recursion_ by Blake Crouch < 1569636716 352832 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :highly recommend < 1569636820 923556 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot if i already recommended it < 1569636832 460638 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :have not read it or heard of it < 1569636847 613322 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you play the puzzle game Recursed < 1569636927 357198 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1569637044 760119 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's it like < 1569637109 297860 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursive < 1569637122 370581 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can jump into boxes that contain copies of rooms and so on < 1569638656 346633 :rodgort!~rodgort@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1569638708 89847 :rodgort!~rodgort@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1569638962 94711 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat JOIN :#esoteric > 1569640853 272792 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Resource14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66357&oldid=66356 5* 03A 5* (+52) 10 > 1569641550 161191 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Resource14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66358&oldid=66357 5* 03A 5* (+51) 10/* Implementation */ Okay > 1569641643 677550 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66359&oldid=66342 5* 03A 5* (+15) 10/* C */ Add the relatively interesting language < 1569642652 110212 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1569642844 1319 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1569642896 7661 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-khadguhihxjjhayr JOIN :#esoteric < 1569643041 210053 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Monday when I played GURPS game, I used the word "wabe", which was used by Lewis Carroll before, isn't it? < 1569644872 596853 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :'twas brillig, and the slithy toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe < 1569644927 507765 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow i spelled that correctly < 1569645018 25996 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think what they said is that "wabe" refers to the grass plot around a sundial, and this is the way it was used in the GURPS game. < 1569645029 8224 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grWp wabe < 1569645030 574160 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :eol:EOL stands for End Of Lawn. It's often found past the wabe. oerjan requests your presence there immediately. < 1569646047 570900 :QazNotQuaz!42b9437f@66.185.67.127 JOIN :#esoteric < 1569646077 27440 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1569646263 109162 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1569646635 548368 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote unreferenced footnotes, recursive footnotes, footnotes that themself have footnotes, footnote references without a corresponding footnote, footnotes numbered in unusual ways, and then there is footnote 2 on session 19; what other stuff with the footnotes would there be? < 1569647236 182788 :QazNotQuaz!42b9437f@66.185.67.127 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1569647562 931699 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Resource14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66360&oldid=66358 5* 03A 5* (+652) 10/* DISCHARM THE B.O.M.B.! */ > 1569647701 655040 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Resource14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66361&oldid=66360 5* 03A 5* (+378) 10/* Useful Instructions (I am not sure whether they are useful in restricted source contests though) */ > 1569647869 519057 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Resource14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66362&oldid=66361 5* 03A 5* (+39) 10/* Useful Instructions (I am not sure whether they are useful in restricted source contests though) */ < 1569649121 763452 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/grWp < 1569649122 167802 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :grwp -i "$@" < 1569649129 803356 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/grwp < 1569649130 192195 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#! /bin/bash \ cd wisdom; shopt -s dotglob; grep -R "$@" -- * < 1569649152 319628 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls wisdom | paste < 1569649153 239794 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/tmp/paste/paste.7592 < 1569649166 903073 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` /bin/ls wisdom | paste < 1569649167 679412 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/tmp/paste/paste.12817 < 1569649181 887231 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a lot of wisdom < 1569649245 895454 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` cat "wisdom/$(/bin/ls wisdom | shuf | head -n 1)" < 1569649246 484047 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur took no cakes, but he's a linguist. < 1569649248 763480 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` cat "wisdom/$(/bin/ls wisdom | shuf | head -n 1)" < 1569649249 363060 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing happens. < 1569649251 398874 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` cat "wisdom/$(/bin/ls wisdom | shuf | head -n 1)" < 1569649251 992161 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything's better with `mk. < 1569649290 805360 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` w="$(/bin/ls wisdom | shuf | head -n 1)"; echo -n "$w: "; cat wisdom/"$w" < 1569649291 443156 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​🐐: 🐐 <(Unicode goat laments your inability to render Unicode goat.) < 1569649294 803548 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` w="$(/bin/ls wisdom | shuf | head -n 1)"; echo -n "$w: "; cat wisdom/"$w" < 1569649295 432508 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom.pdf: Nicely formatted classical wisdoms and quotes book at https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf < 1569649299 694065 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` w="$(/bin/ls wisdom | shuf | head -n 1)"; echo -n "$w: "; cat wisdom/"$w" < 1569649300 302930 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :roborosewater: RoboRosewater is generating random Magic: the Gathering cards, see https://mobile.twitter.com/roborosewater < 1569649355 52617 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`w < 1569649355 596662 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​baba//BABA IS ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1569649362 824969 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w < 1569649364 865565 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:synergy//Synergy is when the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. A possible future Uncontrolled Synergy Scenario is a looming existential threat to humanity. \ orin//orin is oren's evil twin, stalking him from the other side of the international date line. \ england//England is a conspiracy of cartographers. \ comedogenic//comedogenic is something that causes comedy when applied to the skin, e.g. an accelerated cream pie in parabolic < 1569649366 448197 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1569649366 927971 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:motion. \ cuisine//Cuisine is the posh cousin of cooking. < 1569649385 527281 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` paste < bin/w < 1569649386 275404 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/tmp/paste/paste.22039 < 1569649393 48539 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` paste < bin/wisdom < 1569649393 751979 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/tmp/paste/paste.20622 < 1569649419 762956 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bot < 1569649422 232689 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` w="$(/bin/ls wisdom | shuf | head -n 1)"; echo -n "$w: "; cat wisdom/"$w" < 1569649422 849120 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :smileyiese: smileyieses is the plural of smiley. < 1569649499 395681 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`w mushroom < 1569649499 945094 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​mushroom//A mushroom is a fungus that grows above ground, especially after rain. < 1569649501 498974 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cbt w < 1569649502 199418 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom "$@" < 1569649504 801607 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cbt wisdom < 1569649506 268890 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ f=$(find wisdom -ipath "wisdom/*$1*" -type f -print0 | shuf --random-source=/dev/urandom -z -n1); if [ -n "$f" ]; then echo -n "${f#wisdom/}//"; cat "$f"; else echo "That's not wise."; fi | rnooodl < 1569649514 800436 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cbt bin/cbt < 1569649515 223701 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: bin/bin/cbt: No such file or directory < 1569649522 79508 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cbt cbt < 1569649522 491883 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat bin/"$1" < 1569649533 598676 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :some p. fancy aliases here < 1569649540 591150 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls bin | paste < 1569649541 464054 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/tmp/paste/paste.25458 < 1569649568 488440 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` wc -l bin/* | sort -nr | paste < 1569649570 830757 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/tmp/paste/paste.18402 < 1569649592 508071 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` wc -c bin/* | sort -nr | paste < 1569649593 363976 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/tmp/paste/paste.19174 < 1569649610 798661 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`file bin/udcli < 1569649611 271899 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/udcli: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), statically linked, for GNU/Linux 2.6.26, BuildID[sha1]=de5daa4389e466f31e31fde064e80be5907986ba, stripped < 1569649623 902731 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` file bin/* | paste < 1569649626 88180 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/tmp/paste/paste.6883 < 1569649659 306253 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` file bin/* | cut -d: -f2- | sort | uniq -c | sort < 1569649661 290660 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ 11 ASCII text \ 12 POSIX shell script, ASCII text executable \ 12 POSIX shell script, ASCII text executable \ 13 ASCII text \ 13 ASCII text \ 14 POSIX shell script, ASCII text executable \ 15 ASCII text \ 1 a /bin/dash script, ASCII te < 1569649661 803945 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` file bin/* | cut -d: -f2- | sort | uniq -c | sort -nr | paste > 1569649663 309103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Resource14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66363&oldid=66362 5* 03A 5* (+214) 10/* Explanation */ < 1569649664 139863 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/tmp/paste/paste.25767 < 1569649671 471408 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1569649709 419439 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a momentary diversion on the road to the grave < 1569649718 837839 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hugs HackEso  < 1569649718 874065 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dobg udcli < 1569649720 315796 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :4426:2014-02-09 mv udcli bin/ && chmod +x bin/udcli < 1569649783 824461 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`doag udcli < 1569649785 188292 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :4426:2014-02-09 mv udcli bin/ && chmod +x bin/udcli \ 4425:2014-02-09 fetch http://ugcs.net/~keegan/drop/udcli < 1569649827 326875 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so weird < 1569649829 256504 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :being alive < 1569649835 891476 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :time passing, etc < 1569649859 803910 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :when did i first set foot in this channel? < 1569649867 17658 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009? < 1569649876 398114 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-59-9-101.hlrn.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The passing of time confuses and infuriates me. < 1569649883 527759 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if it was because of shachaf or cheater > 1569649900 556212 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Resource14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66364&oldid=66363 5* 03A 5* (+50) 10No comments though. :( < 1569650636 640386 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-khadguhihxjjhayr QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1569652554 626273 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite > 1569652849 244261 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Resource14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66365&oldid=66364 5* 03A 5* (-19) 10/* Useful Instructions (I am not sure whether they are useful in restricted source contests though) */ > 1569652947 372821 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Resource14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66366&oldid=66365 5* 03A 5* (+22) 10/* Salary program */ > 1569652975 256439 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Resource14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66367&oldid=66366 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10/* Salary program */ > 1569653217 853175 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Resource14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66368&oldid=66367 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10/* Salary program */ > 1569653717 285203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Resource14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66369&oldid=66368 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10/* Salary program */ > 1569657232 827625 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Resource14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66370&oldid=66369 5* 03A 5* (+59) 10 < 1569659300 717084 :rain2!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1569659315 717379 :rain2!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let us define x = y to mean that for all contexts C, C[x] halts iff C[y] halts < 1569659328 779559 :rain2!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you think about this? < 1569659358 662016 :rain2!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be used for a notion of observational equality or to differentiate between expressions in a programming language < 1569660145 192898 :MDead!~MDude@c-174-55-101-236.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1569660290 321055 :MDude!AdiIRC@c-174-55-101-236.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1569660294 398704 :MDude!~MDude@c-174-55-101-236.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1569660306 774897 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Woefully14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66371&oldid=52059 5* 03Kritixilithos 5* (+1545) 10turing-completeness? < 1569660437 105428 :MDead!~MDude@c-174-55-101-236.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1569662831 478133 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ntucxtsqsglngupx JOIN :#esoteric < 1569663036 790510 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1569663248 325727 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1569664868 404304 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain2: In lambda calculus that's "observational equivalence wrt normal forms" (or whatever your precise notion of "halting" is) < 1569664991 761835 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? rpm < 1569664992 610755 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :rpm? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1569665025 992789 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn RPM is short for "rapid piece movement", a phenomenon often seen in bullet chess. < 1569665027 960122 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'rpm': RPM is short for "rapid piece movement", a phenomenon often seen in bullet chess. < 1569665333 116872 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain2: I don't know who first studied this kind of things. Böhm is a strong candidate, but far from the only one. < 1569665352 689810 :rain2!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1569665407 673180 :APic!apic@apic.name QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1569666758 943636 :APic!apic@apic.name JOIN :#esoteric > 1569670129 195037 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Mice in a maze14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66372&oldid=58069 5* 03TwilightSparkle 5* (+179) 10Infinite Loop > 1569670189 184335 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Mice in a maze14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66373&oldid=66372 5* 03TwilightSparkle 5* (+30) 10/* Infinite Loop */ < 1569673007 955593 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.11.76.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric > 1569673678 657375 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Resource14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66374&oldid=66370 5* 03A 5* (+97) 10/* DISCHARM THE B.O.M.B.! */ I am glad that this works < 1569674813 624753 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ntucxtsqsglngupx QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1569677917 22783 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1569678135 655318 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds > 1569678805 247020 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF instruction minimalization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66375&oldid=62527 5* 03TonyBrown148 5* (+637) 10/* TonyBrown148's attempt */ 3 command > 1569678850 95682 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF instruction minimalization14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66376&oldid=66375 5* 03TonyBrown148 5* (-1) 10/* TonyBrown148's attempt */ > 1569679050 457255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Resource14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66377&oldid=66374 5* 03A 5* (-2) 10/* DISCHARM THE B.O.M.B.! */ > 1569679189 902714 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF instruction minimalization14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66378&oldid=66376 5* 03A 5* (-540) 10/* Iamcalledbob's attempt */ > 1569679235 613795 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF instruction minimalization14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66379&oldid=66378 5* 03A 5* (+540) 10Undo revision 66378 by [[Special:Contributions/A|A]] ([[User talk:A|talk]]) > 1569679249 239066 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF instruction minimalization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66380&oldid=66379 5* 03A 5* (-540) 10Undo revision 66379 by [[Special:Contributions/A|A]] ([[User talk:A|talk]]) > 1569679280 226300 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF instruction minimalization14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66381&oldid=66380 5* 03A 5* (+540) 10Undo revision 66380 by [[Special:Contributions/A|A]] ([[User talk:A|talk]]) > 1569679295 868696 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF instruction minimalization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66382&oldid=66381 5* 03TonyBrown148 5* (+239) 10/* TonyBrown148's attempt */ 2 command > 1569679565 157197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Resource14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66383&oldid=66377 5* 03A 5* (+71) 10Oh no, what will they say? > 1569679719 256969 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Resource14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66384&oldid=66383 5* 03A 5* (-1) 10/* Implementation */ This happenedddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd > 1569681681 687825 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Resource14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66385&oldid=66384 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10/* Useful Instructions (I am not sure whether they are useful in restricted source contests though) */ Opposite! < 1569683834 879388 :MDude!~MDude@c-174-55-101-236.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1569684962 954440 :APic!apic@apic.name QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1569684988 534384 :APic!apic@apic.name JOIN :#esoteric < 1569686442 535095 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fuizvmutnzuvxzxl JOIN :#esoteric < 1569688077 147360 :APic!apic@apic.name QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1569688310 301561 :APic!apic@apic.name JOIN :#esoteric < 1569688357 919438 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1569688536 997995 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1569689061 472167 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1569689074 324766 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone here wrote a terminal emulator i think < 1569689112 508208 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it oerjan? < 1569689139 931030 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if there's an actual question hidden behind the statement < 1569689235 159700 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1569689402 235144 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1569689408 425634 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1569689448 596854 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm writing a thingy < 1569689463 585003 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :that needs some special escape sequences < 1569689488 911668 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i've been reading https://invisible-island.net/xterm/ctlseqs/ctlseqs.html for a while without finding what i can use for my custom sequences < 1569689674 499711 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you could use OSC in theory < 1569689720 240419 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a ##tty which has some knowledgeable folks, I'd think LeoNerd would know since they have a fair buncha terminal emulation experience (both on the terminal emulator side and the application side) < 1569689817 939671 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also other space for more extravagant custom CSI-prefixed escape seqs I think, in the grammar for them that ECMA-48 specifies < 1569689852 552698 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ECMA-48 also has an ANSI and an ISO/IEC name, but apart from being easier to remember, it's also helpful that ECMA releases their pdfs for free so you can just google it and grab the spec) < 1569689910 10074 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a grammar for escape seqs starting with CSI that is basically.. CSI followed by intermediate bytes followed by parameter bytes followed by a terminating byte.. and I think most of the space where you add intermediate bytes is unoccupied/unused < 1569689917 867933 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What special escape sequences do you need? < 1569689927 274678 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ also wondering that, because it sounds interesting :) < 1569689994 440597 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh whoops, it's parameter then intermediate then final byte < 1569690025 4791 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xen.firefly.nu/up/2019-09-28_190010.png (from ECMA-48) < 1569690070 798873 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think most escape seqs are either using no intermediate byte, or just a '?', but there's more room for other more exotic intermediate byte values, or extending it to more than one byte.. < 1569690117 538375 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they express bytes funnily, but really e.g. 07/14 is just 0x7E, etc in that excerpt) < 1569690178 65132 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks FireFly! < 1569690201 576767 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had little success in the past asking in ##tty < 1569690265 785346 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it acceptable to put two question marks instead of just one? < 1569690312 786502 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know someone who wrote a terminal emulator, but isn't in this channel. < 1569690328 896785 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a bunch of ideas of what I'd like a terminal emulator to be like and I was considering writing it. < 1569690338 384312 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be more a combination terminal emulator/shell, probably. < 1569690339 126432 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes < 1569690350 759619 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm curious (I've had ideas along these lines) < 1569690432 312240 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I don't remember the details anymore. I could find old chat logs where I talked about them probably. < 1569690458 192415 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think each command should be able to run independently, with its own output stream/pty. < 1569690478 472493 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, this sounds a lot like thoughts I've had :p < 1569690482 919603 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the shell/terminal emulator interface should be much richer than a text interface. < 1569690484 676656 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :like scarily similar < 1569690514 675741 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The terminal emulator should just automatically "time" every command and remember a bunch of information about it, which you can get through the UI. < 1569690574 291577 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Golly. < 1569690599 543568 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A thing I use a lot right now is ^Z/fg. < 1569690613 113389 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :job control is sweet < 1569690624 750161 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of that I'd like to just keep an old command running and type into a prompt underneath it which will have its own pty. < 1569690629 544933 :APic!apic@apic.name QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1569690634 871077 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nod* < 1569690643 322067 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i have this idea < 1569690645 462047 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like each command to have its own searchable output buffer, rather than piping things into less. < 1569690658 427188 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :my program is a shell manager thingy < 1569690707 477050 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: Since your program is identical to mine in every respect, you should implement it so I don't have to, twh < 1569690744 978171 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was kind of going to do this, but first I needed to write my own UI library, so I started doing that, but then I wanted to make my own programming language for it. < 1569690749 511338 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, the usual story. < 1569690813 671386 :APic!apic@apic.name JOIN :#esoteric < 1569690822 491870 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJXrLg2XoAAJcfd?format=png&name=medium here's an old random mockup of some of my thoughts (the point here isn't really the visual bits of the UI, but more having a command-line interface (as opposed to a "your terminal is a gird of character cells") where each job gets its own usual-character-grid output block (for compat reasons and whatnot if nothing else, because I wouldn't < 1569690822 622370 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :want to reinvent everything here) < 1569690872 512549 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: Also have you seen mzero's old project plush? < 1569690877 254443 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1569690888 272220 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/mzero/plush < 1569690915 379877 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not quite the thing I want but it might be the closest someone has made. < 1569690919 491260 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :w*nod* < 1569690924 830171 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :-w < 1569690997 54821 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I went to a talk about it and he talked about all the things I'm sure you've thought of too, like how ridiculous it is to press enter a bunch of times to fill the screen with prompts so you can see where a command started when you scroll up. < 1569691018 267217 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nod* < 1569691043 666058 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway I don't want a web UI, obviously. < 1569691050 772323 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1569691121 728463 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can the terminal emulator determine the process ID of the foreground process? < 1569691124 264350 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way I thought about my interface, it should have worked with (existing) TUI apps as well (like htop, vim etc) < 1569691126 275968 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I agree, each command should probably get its own TTY grid interface, but there's no reason for the shell to limit itself that way. < 1569691151 776381 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm pretty sure it couldn't typically in a terminal emulator today < 1569691153 473934 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead the shell should probably be exposed as an API that the TTY can call. < 1569691214 507176 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree that it should work with things like htop and vim. For those uses it could just start a full pty (and maybe have a pool of them that it reuses -- I looked into this a bit and it's kind of a mess). < 1569691221 437556 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way I imagined it was to add a few extra escape sequences (in a way that they should be possible for existing terminal emulators to just silently ignore, if they have spec-compliant escape seq parsers) to annotate the stream of data from the shell with some extra in-band metadata < 1569691245 364715 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the most critical bit would be to somehow encode in-band which job (or process or whatever) is producing a certain segment of output < 1569691249 277338 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like the shell should just totally break compatibility. It's not compatible with any other terminals, and why should it be? < 1569691257 43070 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In-band signaling is scow anyway. < 1569691261 246426 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair < 1569691274 607906 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want you can use the fancy shell API to implement a simple text-based mode like normal shells. < 1569691300 363538 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I'd do separate pty's per se < 1569691302 948051 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1569691305 267205 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway presumably when you start vim you want it to take over the entire window by default, but you also want to be able to get a prompt, *without* suspending vim. < 1569691307 893149 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know.. heh < 1569691328 158755 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing that I do a lot is: Edit a program in my editor; ^Z and run the program; fg < 1569691334 85929 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, same here < 1569691340 141186 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except if the program is a long-running process, I'm stuck outside of my editor. < 1569691354 764725 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's silly. I don't actually want to suspend the editor, I just want a shell prompt. < 1569691362 901017 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you could ^Z and bg the long-running job, and then fg vim :P < 1569691366 752137 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I get what you mean < 1569691368 687243 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which is "associated" with the editor in some way, not the same window.) < 1569691378 949583 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but say I'm timing the long-running job or something. < 1569691392 645819 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nod* < 1569691407 583544 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or say I want to look at the code while I type text into an interactive program. < 1569691428 188881 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that ^Z/fg isn't really what I want almost all the time. I just want better multiplexing in my terminal. < 1569691430 256216 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would definitely want to be able to run multiple TUI programs at once, and just switch which one I'm sending input to as the 'foreground' < 1569691436 23855 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1569691459 555178 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'm unlikely to actually implement my thoughts, but heh, they're fun to ponder < 1569691463 838066 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also want all the other things like scrolling/searching the output of just one command. < 1569691476 924953 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems like a pretty basic desideratum in 2019. < 1569691489 858633 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1569691598 339724 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :plush also shows a list of files on the side of the terminal so you don't have to run ls all the time. < 1569691606 777650 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems like there are a lot of things like that that you can do. < 1569691668 578281 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm, I'm not sure I'd want to do all of them, but *nod* < 1569691733 427146 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the thing about the in-band escape seqs that I wanted to do was like... minimal (or small) changes to the shell (at least the way I imagined it) that could let the terminal emulator to a lot more with how it manages and presents output (enabling all these things with separate output blocks for separate jobs and stuff) < 1569691776 739162 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's possible? I think escaping the legacy of VT-100 is a worthy goal. < 1569691778 769306 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas now it's a bit of a deadlock because there's only so much you can do if you *only* create a new innovative terminal emulator, or *only* a new innovative shell (and you want to remain compatible with existing applications) < 1569691823 33406 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's been a number of "actually let's just reinvent everything and cut off existing programs entirely" attempts, but they all seem to fail quickly because there's just too much software out there that's useful that you wouldn't want to reinvent < 1569691840 212275 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I guess it depends on who you are. I guess say, Microsoft can reinvent all the things with powershell, because they're a big corp and stuff < 1569691850 396972 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I couldn't realistically do that myself < 1569691859 913207 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It look like foreground process groups can be figured out at least < 1569691866 761482 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm, huh < 1569691867 494935 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: All I'm replacing is the shell, though. < 1569691875 632101 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: *nod* < 1569691889 784538 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programs running in the shell still get a standard pty and a semi-standard terminal emulator. < 1569691896 125820 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just mean that there's several steps to this, and whilst I like the ideal of taking it all the way, I don't think it's practical < 1569691918 346805 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess we end up on slightly different points along the scale of "today" to "ideal future terminal emulator", but that's fine < 1569691930 888005 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: *nodnod* < 1569691938 174317 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's sort of the approach I'm thinking too < 1569691949 751153 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the shell needs to be replaced anyway. < 1569691986 532635 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want anything near the complexity of bash. < 1569691997 999773 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1569692016 637357 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shell scripting is probably a bad idea anyway. < 1569692034 676955 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of the things that the shell would have been traditionally responsible for (like line editing) I'd like to move to the terminal emulator anyway < 1569692052 643111 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1569692092 301955 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1569692104 691844 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to say upfront that the interface between the terminal and the shell is made of escape sequences. I think it can be much richer than what that realistically allows for and it's silly to bound it upfront like that. < 1569692122 505499 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should try to write a simple prototype proof-of-concept shell of what I have in mind < 1569692130 777545 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that's totally fair < 1569692141 550989 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :My own ideas of terminal emulator is much like xterm, although a few features are different, such as SVG and HTML screen dumps are not built-in but rather you can configure external programs to execute when those escape codes are received. If you push the break key then it can use tcgetattr() to emulate it. < 1569692169 581574 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's plenty of stuff about escape seqs (and terminals today) that's just bonkers and terrible < 1569692176 278408 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION grumbles about how keystrokes are encoded < 1569692186 647933 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously that's all nonsense. < 1569692201 592544 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd eventually like to move away from TUI programs in general. < 1569692206 436195 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nod* < 1569692212 430090 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have complicated thoughts < 1569692223 322254 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree in principle < 1569692233 792777 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :A few new escape codes might be added, such as UTCE character encoding selection, application keyboard mode for the escape key, save states with optional passwords (for security), etc < 1569692340 734507 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also the ability to select character sets which include characters not in Unicode. This only works if the font supports it, though.) < 1569692380 530216 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :CP437 is obviously the only thing my terminal supports. < 1569692445 966799 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :"b) If the first bit combination of the parameter string is in the range 03/12 to 03/15, the parameter string is available for private (or experimental) use. Its format and meaning are not defined by this Standard." < 1569692450 956269 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1569692490 192652 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: anyway, digression aside, I think ECMA-48 section 5.4 is what I'd look at for figuring out sensible custom-escape-seq options :P < 1569692495 82954 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the terminal emulator is only for PC, then it can be sense to support only CP437, although one problem with that is that escape codes can interfere unless you have a command to indicate that a character should be interpreted as a graphic rather than control. < 1569692958 23605 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another thing that tcgetattr() could be used for is to figure out what response to give to DECREQTPARM. When connecting to a remote service that might have optional fancy animations or whatever, reporting a lower baud rate could be used as a hint to disable some of the fancy animations. < 1569693597 57418 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly a save state command I mentioned before is not needed, since I have another idea. < 1569693660 557709 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There can be one escape code which, the first time will save the state and later uses will restore the state; you can include it in your shell prompt. A user command (on a menu or a keyboard combination) can discard the saved state in case you wish to enter a command to permanently change the state. < 1569694422 618222 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: You should totally work on this with me, when I do it. < 1569694434 13538 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe :o < 1569694439 652587 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which will probably be never? But it might instead be sometime. < 1569694466 300703 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another feature (although not a new control code) is you can program a different mouse cursor shape for when the program has requested mouse events. < 1569694483 899951 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to set up a good way to write cross-platform GUI programs. < 1569694576 698257 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depending on the program, there is ways, such as SDL < 1569694688 445533 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm OK with writing my own bindings for X11 and Win32 and whatever. < 1569694708 141521 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like the bulk of the work is in making a good UI library. < 1569694717 764156 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if it's not extremely general. < 1569694905 732949 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you use Xaw? < 1569695241 301095 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I want it to be good. < 1569695247 142343 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also portable. < 1569695537 139930 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that it is not that bad (although, it isn't portable unless you also have a portable X server), although some features it lacks such as displaying the underlined letters to indicate which keys to push < 1569696002 10050 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the only missing feature, true. < 1569697323 112500 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1569697334 211350 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :new laptop, new me. < 1569697378 915412 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? imode < 1569697379 890855 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode is an Innovative Multicomponent Drug Designer, afflicted by a severe case of the UPPERs. < 1569697408 642668 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL. < 1569697413 154846 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was not aware I had a page. < 1569697433 29543 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, what would you call that... a quote? < 1569697441 696349 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg imode < 1569697448 144870 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :11145:2017-08-03 le/rn imode//imode is an Innovative Multicomponent Drug Designer, afflicted by a severe case of the UPPERs. < 1569697469 457803 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I spoke with someone in another channel with the nick inode, the other day < 1569697475 402336 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :it confused me for a li'l... < 1569697480 625607 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah. < 1569698103 233058 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.11.76.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW has someone here used sound change appliers in a while? < 1569698115 782363 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.11.76.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hi :D) < 1569698122 143284 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :allo. o/ < 1569698316 749423 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :sound change appliers? < 1569698446 343637 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.11.76.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: basically they take a description of phonetic/phonological rules and apply them to a list of words < 1569698504 721988 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.11.76.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :some go for more, there could be dialects sharing some rules and then having each own newer rules, and there are many other features one or the other implements < 1569698533 339648 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1569698624 796206 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.11.76.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :when conlanging, it can be a hand, though often people say that if you want a naturalistic result, this would be a hard task, as just phonetic changes aren’t enough and there would be many exceptions due to other processes < 1569698641 596632 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.11.76.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :a while ago I played with ASCA a bit < 1569698801 585109 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know much about Old English, and what sound changes there are? < 1569699047 569041 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1569699319 623521 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi. Have you guys ever worked on compression of "obese" esolangs? < 1569699327 263059 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm already trying to figure it out. < 1569699327 873488 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :"obese"? < 1569699339 393350 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :By obese I mean the literal code pottery < 1569699341 911928 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Malbolge < 1569699358 787219 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had some luck with compressing my malbolge with a burrows-wheeler based compression algo < 1569699366 43212 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't feel satisfied enough < 1569699370 748554 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean literally compressing the size of the source? < 1569699375 458406 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1569699383 717275 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's too big for any resonable scale tbh < 1569699397 905163 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently my assembler produces 3MB-200MB malbolge programs < 1569699407 654958 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 2048 test program created around 74MB of Malbolge < 1569699417 8133 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the size is pretty much unsalvageable and I can't do anything about it < 1569699439 678458 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the size is pretty much unsalvageable and I can't do anything about it (in terms of organic code shortening, of course) < 1569699457 19239 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's the point of malbolge, to be so large it's nearly incomprehensible. < 1569699489 308326 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly yes, but I think it would be nice to distribute malbolge programs in smaller form < 1569699511 726163 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so one could put it in volume limited areas, then decompress it in an unlimited place < 1569699516 411124 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and run it afterwards < 1569699527 635411 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you assembling _to_ malbolge or assembling malbolge to executables. < 1569699547 263300 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm assembling to malbolge < 1569699573 281407 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from many existing reasons I can't really improve my assembler, but I'm working on it < 1569699619 987646 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you just generating macro instructions literally. < 1569699640 735886 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, no < 1569699650 101397 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's impossible to do that < 1569699664 360877 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you didn't get what I said. you're writing some form of assembly, right. < 1569699670 922486 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're compiling that down to malbolge. < 1569699682 289188 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a program that transpiles an assembly-like language into malbolge < 1569699686 291705 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an example program: < 1569699693 557991 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. so each instruction corresponds to some snippet of malbolge, right. < 1569699712 673761 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://pastebin.com/raw/mnpHXvVp < 1569699728 96486 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's impossible for an instruction to correspond 1:1 to malbolge snippet < 1569699739 998457 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of immutable nop cycles and all the other crazy stuff < 1569699762 254570 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that possible. < 1569699780 740330 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. Malbolge encrypts each instruction after it's ran < 1569699792 300642 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the encryption key is dependant of position of command in the source file < 1569699824 204548 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to run it once again < 1569699830 461765 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. make an immutable instruction < 1569699838 335690 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to produce different code for different position in file < 1569699843 663997 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the code might differ severely. < 1569699851 884040 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, but you have some _template_. < 1569699855 353746 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1569699867 259013 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :strictly speaking, kind of < 1569699881 845447 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. so you have larger-scale structures in your assembly. < 1569699884 305871 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like loops. < 1569699890 226372 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :initializations of memory, etc. < 1569699897 460406 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no indirect loops < 1569699905 913096 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have large scale structures. < 1569699906 637597 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to make loops out of comparasion instruction, a jump and a label < 1569699910 125428 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :replace those with smaller templates. < 1569699916 472965 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's what assembly is. < 1569699916 919852 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you programmed with x86 Assembly? < 1569699927 72226 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1569699934 813326 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, then you probably understand < 1569699938 723046 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :me and my idea < 1569699947 581715 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've built my own ISAs, yes, I understand. < 1569699949 253463 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of making the assembler as low level as possible, because I won't write it by hand < 1569699979 216081 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've already worked on gluing together C to Brainfuck compiler and now I'm having fun with bits and pieces of malbolge < 1569700017 267017 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably worth noting that C was a quite bit broad subset < 1569700022 374459 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's as capable as C < 1569700065 372089 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not really getting it, so I'll explain it verbosely: if you have a template for a single instruction (i.e, you see the instruction, then you output a snippet of malbolge with the relevant places filled in), and if you have multiple instructions that make up a larger construct (like a loop, etc.), you can replace the generated sequence of templates with a single template that performs the < 1569700067 569384 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :loop. < 1569700099 596671 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm < 1569700103 216605 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you' < 1569700112 624083 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :re right, but I'm not implementing higher level structures < 1569700131 661945 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not going to be writing loops in your assembly? < 1569700131 855926 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on the assembly level, of course) < 1569700139 957854 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is you're generating them. < 1569700140 81549 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indirect, broad loops, nope < 1569700141 735991 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so. < 1569700146 690124 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still applies. < 1569700158 874505 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you are correct < 1569700165 363550 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, Malbolge is making this idea harder < 1569700168 75163 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you take 'whatever: add r1, r2, r3; cmp; jnz whatever;' < 1569700174 863736 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you say "well, that's just a loop" < 1569700176 650295 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if I wanted to create a specific loop construct < 1569700182 940941 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to write microcode for it < 1569700192 121717 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this would be a really, really, really (x99) hard task < 1569700200 720038 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or rather, a microcode generator) < 1569700225 27355 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm looking for a lowest common denominator right now < 1569700229 443916 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have used 6502, MMIX, and Glulx, but not the assembly for Malbolge. < 1569700235 636568 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you pretty much have two options. < 1569700265 701279 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :group together larger scale assembly instructions into smaller templates. < 1569700271 275056 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :resulting in smaller snippets of malbolge. < 1569700289 374056 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :or compress the whole source using a lossless compression algorithm, and then unpack it incrementally at runtime. < 1569700289 653066 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or? < 1569700305 115989 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer the second one tho, because the first one is going to take insane amount of time < 1569700309 2789 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm probably going to turn insane < 1569700324 607560 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd ask why bother, but then I realized what channel I was talking to. < 1569700329 633821 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :or talking in, rather. < 1569700365 819831 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1569700374 386319 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do I have to derive my own algo < 1569700385 555168 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or there is something that would suffice < 1569700390 258333 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if you add enough instruction that can result smaller Malbolge codes, then you can. < 1569700399 731442 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've already managed to get 47 megabytes to one megabyte < 1569700405 30908 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's still too much < 1569700430 614932 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone built a brainfuck to malbolge compiler, I think you can build an assembler. < 1569700436 12608 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 If i write microcode generator for complex instructions, I will going to turn insane < 1569700443 375184 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode really? < 1569700448 791613 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen just the theoretical explanations < 1569700462 978950 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc... < 1569700490 421465 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's not going to be the most efficient route ever made < 1569700502 647366 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C hello world -> 1.5MB of brainfuck -> ???MB of Malbolge < 1569700517 8108 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it seems quite easy, lol < 1569700542 558326 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll stick to my malbolge assembly idea, because I can port my pseudoC compiler to it < 1569700681 46203 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking < 1569700687 116347 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why shouldn't I made a harvester program < 1569700693 445343 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and generate a few random malbolge assembly programs < 1569700706 643937 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the harvester program would generate a dictionary of most used symbols < 1569700720 243247 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then go ahead with a dictionary compression, but with the dictionary built into the decompressor < 1569700871 817913 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric : at least I, for a practical language, think of it as a pretty normal thing. Why should a low-level language have unstructured control flow, not all low levels are that low so to be able to execute on a sufficiently simple hardware <-- I really agree with this now. I didn't used to. < 1569700898 402532 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :structured control flow is _not_ hard to implement properly and speedily. < 1569700911 182348 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can even use a jump cache based on the current instruction pointer. < 1569701007 397938 :kspalaiologos!b0dd7a47@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1569701144 141010 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing I don't like, however, is the idea that break is not required. rather, breaking (and conditional breaking) makes it so you don't have to duplicate code. < 1569701281 134230 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to wonder what would change if brainfuck's loops were changed so that the conditional check happened at the end of a loop. < 1569701337 910151 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so instead of while(...) { ... }, you'd have do { ... } while(...) < 1569701390 236598 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe that's been studied before < 1569701409 608740 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that'd change quite a lot, since you can't easily do conditionals anymore (since each loop runs at least once) < 1569701432 735547 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting. < 1569701435 353378 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other day I realized that if (...) is a loop that executes at most once, and do { ... } while (...) is a loop that executes at least once. < 1569701456 369959 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :while (...) { ... } is a loop that executed any number of times, and { ... } is a loop that executes exactly once. < 1569701485 390959 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :APLs use the view of booleans as 0 or 1 in a similar manner to that, sometimes < 1569701492 845965 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense as to why while (...) { ... } is considered universal. I remember teaching someone how to build things like "and" statements. < 1569701504 328368 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :using only while loops, acting in lieu of if statements. < 1569701512 932566 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. you can express a "filter" operation in terms of a "take n copies of" operation if the predicate produces 0 or 1 for false or true < 1569701524 98025 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.11.76.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : Do you know much about Old English, and what sound changes there are? => no, unfortunately < 1569701532 629151 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :taking 0 copies of something omits it, and taking 1 copies of something passes it through to the result (including it) < 1569701547 413356 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's interesting. < 1569701552 602875 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 1 1 0 1 0 1 # 'abcdef' < 1569701553 284009 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: abdf < 1569701633 813247 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ (#~ >&4) i.10 NB. produce the list [0..9], then filter on the predicate >&4, i.e. "is greater than 4" < 1569701634 510975 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: 5 6 7 8 9 < 1569701637 809511 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :does APL _require_ control flow structures? < 1569701648 687088 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :J included. < 1569701664 745640 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :or can all programs be expressed in terms of array transformations. < 1569701675 128070 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't require traditional control flow structures < 1569701756 901722 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a reasonably common pattern in J that's something like f^:predicate^:_ (where ^: repeats the application of a function, so e.g. f^:3 is the same as f compose f compose f) < 1569701781 928015 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the _minimal_ primitives that J has. < 1569701812 552095 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :because f^:0 is identity, f^:1 executes it once. if you then raise that to infinity, you can essentially express a while loop < 1569701817 853651 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: dunno :o < 1569701829 680226 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be fascinating to know. < 1569701835 902209 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd look toward K probably, beacuse in my mind it's much more toward the minimalistic side of things < 1569701843 406933 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if K has traditional control structures? < 1569701854 453193 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :minimalist in terms of primitives or minimalist in terms of size? < 1569701861 763279 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :in terms of having a few primitives < 1569701865 361158 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/a // < 1569701870 759240 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting. < 1569701872 257617 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :and avoiding redundancy < 1569701879 87404 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :(J has plenty of redundancy and convenience features) < 1569701886 784578 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :array languages seem hard to implement. < 1569701890 198528 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://kparc.com/k.txt < 1569701894 891520 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1569701903 468811 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in what sense? < 1569701926 26031 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a lot of moving parts. < 1569701945 76887 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :from parsing to actual interpretation. < 1569701975 94349 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think in many ways a lot easier than other paradigms (very simple syntax, often just needs a lexer.. although often very context-dependent and intertwined with execution, tbf) < 1569702053 867454 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's the http://nsl.com/papers/origins.htm which is a bit classic, and admittedly perhaps not super representative, but always fun (a minimal proto-J which implements a few select verbs and stuff, and no error handling) < 1569702137 266471 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/JohnEarnest/ok/blob/d6d3ee4bbb550a806895ffb92fbe76321dc7552e/oK.js implements a K variant in about 1000 lines of JS, and that's AFAIK pretty feature-complete < 1569702193 487631 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if it's necessarily harder, or if it's just a bit different and requires some pondering how things fit together < 1569702324 907789 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :that C snippet is so obfuscated I can't even read it. < 1569702328 244610 :asdfbot!potato@hellomouse/bin/notJeffbot QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1569702345 578511 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you bother doing that. < 1569702351 408038 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't get points for being terse. < 1569702389 679655 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Quit: Bye! < 1569702394 140713 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The argument is that this is just the way that's natural to write C, if your mind works in the way that it does if you write APL. < 1569702404 686388 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, fuck that. < 1569702406 806878 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that's true, it seems maybe worthwhile to get your mind working that way. < 1569702408 879725 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't write it that way :P < 1569702421 866485 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? FireFly < 1569702422 768581 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly was a short-running but well-loved sci-fi TV series released in 2003, starring Nathan Fillion and directed and written by Joss Whedon. It's also a room whose gimmick is that it gets darker as you kill the enemies. < 1569702426 677890 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless I golf) < 1569702429 990963 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator QUIT :Quit: Blame iczero something happened < 1569702431 907420 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :forth is comprehensible, that is a mess. < 1569702440 590158 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly is not Arthur Whitney. < 1569702447 982794 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is correct < 1569702450 257538 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :given. :P < 1569702452 879135 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :One time I deciphered most of that implementation of J with someone. < 1569702462 582367 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there were still a couple of mysterious things left. < 1569702477 289270 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: APLs can be quite comprehensible I think < 1569702483 105243 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1569702494 405571 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but I'm not arguing for writing C that way) < 1569702530 988047 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric < 1569702582 990520 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator JOIN :#esoteric < 1569702606 614705 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything can be written comprehensibly. < 1569702616 184294 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the key is documentation. < 1569702677 241612 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm, with J the vocab page is quite handy: https://www.jsoftware.com/help/dictionary/vocabul.htm < 1569702690 682815 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only reason why that C snippet is incomprehensible is because it lacks any human-readable documentation. and code is documentation. < 1569702711 908875 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nod* < 1569702777 292971 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think APLy people would disagree with you. < 1569702787 890182 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm looking for some document I read that talks about this, but I can't find it. < 1569702811 479740 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found http://coding-is-like-cooking.info/2013/09/an-introduction-to-array-languages/ which talks about Whitney writing an editor in K. < 1569702882 872877 :imode1!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1569702910 585085 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://kparc.com/edit.k ? < 1569702952 614484 :imode1!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they disagree with me, shachaf, then they disagree with iverson. < 1569702962 696147 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, it's http://kparc.com/$/edit.k < 1569703008 663918 :imode1!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :notation as a tool of thought pretty much said "let the notation serve as your documentation". < 1569703018 590397 :imode1!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :executable notation == code. < 1569703052 89551 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1569703057 470085 :imode1!~linear@unaffiliated/imode NICK :imode < 1569703063 783244 :iczero!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero QUIT :Quit: rip < 1569703084 559615 :iczero!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero JOIN :#esoteric < 1569703227 152414 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, whoever wrote that post I linked to seems to be completely indoctrinated with nonsense. < 1569703502 179712 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite my language looking like ass (this, for example, is a directly compiled 5 factorial: ,$5,$0\$$\$[:$,$0=~?:$,$1\$\$$-$]. < 1569703532 243117 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language you're _intended_ to use (which rides on top of it) emphasizes readability. < 1569703705 653120 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the J for expressing factorial of 5 (without using the built-in verb for it, duh) is pretty readable < 1569703712 328995 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's a matter of having gotten used to it < 1569703728 850452 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine it is, yeah. by the by, I'm not arguing against array language readability. < 1569703734 826226 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1569703743 945151 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I also think it looks like line-noise without being used to it) < 1569703753 498928 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol. trying to adjust to writing in line noise. < 1569703781 635050 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ */1+i.5 < 1569703782 352636 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: 120 < 1569704026 876704 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :my bad, that was only.. _partially, a factorial function. here's the real deal: ,$5,$0\$$\$[:$,$0=~$?:$,$1\$\$$-$].[\$$\$:$,$0=$~$?*$]. < 1569704081 306345 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's comprised of two parts, one part generates a range of numbers from N on down to 1, and the other computes the product of that range. < 1569704093 762233 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 'range' part is ,$0\$$\$[:$,$0=~$?:$,$1\$\$$-$]. < 1569704105 113753 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the 'product' part is [\$$\$:$,$0=$~$?*$]. < 1569704881 698813 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1569705278 960894 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.11.76.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1569705458 459475 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :unmangled, it looks like https://hatebin.com/ldolvvfofb < 1569705472 859013 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is much more readable. < 1569705596 737436 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :one sec.. < 1569705597 852917 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.6 < 1569705652 189956 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric > 1569706774 490956 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Vulture001 5* 10New user account > 1569706831 976920 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66386&oldid=66298 5* 03Vulture001 5* (+97) 10 < 1569706905 952887 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.6 > 1569706935 834062 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Vulture001 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:Cz logo.png10]]" > 1569706948 74822 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Vulture00114]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=66388 5* 03Vulture001 5* (+51) 10Created page with "[[file:cz logo.png|130px|]]
esoteric programmer" > 1569706959 349398 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Vulture00114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66389&oldid=66388 5* 03Vulture001 5* (-3) 10 > 1569707842 587164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Crazy14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=66390 5* 03Vulture001 5* (+985) 10Created crazy language < 1569708335 599022 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1569708339 387216 :voidio!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid JOIN :#esoteric < 1569708353 977773 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1569708427 890983 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric < 1569709039 964079 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0060ef832ed13260a2.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1569709711 748891 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0060ef832ed13260a2.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1569709987 542709 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00d4ec76a55a43c361.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1569710492 524456 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00d4ec76a55a43c361.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1569710517 635272 :voidio!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid NICK :iovoid < 1569710604 197554 :LKoen!~LKoen@lfbn-idf2-1-334-110.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1569710881 983542 :LKoen!~LKoen@lfbn-idf2-1-334-110.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1569710977 407819 :LKoen!~LKoen@lfbn-idf2-1-334-110.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1569711372 64499 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1569712176 661 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found the "tap code", which uses 1/3 for both C and K, but maybe the code for K should be 2/6 instead. < 1569712850 563829 :MDude!AdiIRC@c-174-55-101-236.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1569713418 980368 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1569714300 286474 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-106.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1569714379 303985 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-59-9-101.hlrn.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2019/19025-terminals-prop.pdf was accepted for inclusion in future Unicode. Sweet. < 1569714381 923821 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-106.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: re string eval in perl without the letter e => hmm, I'll have to get back to this when I'm less tired. I just got home from vacation. you might want to look in those old obfuscations that are made of only ascii punctuation, space and newline. at least some of them cheat by using backticks to spawn something, but maybe there's some other. < 1569714389 766601 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-59-9-101.hlrn.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally, PETSCII will actually have a Unicode mapping. < 1569714410 422404 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-106.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's probably a less cheating way (not necessarily easier, just less cheating), but I don't have it in mind now < 1569714434 106227 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-59-9-101.hlrn.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, hey, more useful semigraphics) < 1569714616 991833 :MDude!AdiIRC@c-174-55-101-236.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1569714651 887366 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-106.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can eval stuff like $x = q(print 2+3,"\n"); $s = "(?{$x})"; use re "eval"; /$s/ < 1569714675 438791 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-106.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be possible to remove the e from the use re "eval" but really ugly < 1569714694 470361 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-106.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'd almost certainly need an E for a BEGIN then < 1569714729 145817 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-106.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm wait, maybe we can just BEGIN { $^H = ... } to have that effect, in which case it wouldn't be ugly < 1569714733 743736 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-106.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how use re is implemented < 1569714896 265850 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-106.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can also write the code into a named file and then eval its contents with do < 1569715173 274246 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-106.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -e $i = 'for(1..7){print$_**2," "}'; BEGIN { $^H |= 0x200000; } $s="(?{$i})"; /$s/; # ais523 < 1569715173 675813 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 4 9 16 25 36 49 < 1569715177 510888 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-106.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup, that works