1567296273 997771 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:d8bf:cc89:a495:266c QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1567296911 807593 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-10.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1567297147 63950 :unlimiter!~unlimiter@160.176.42.172 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567297521 917812 :unlimiter!~unlimiter@160.176.42.172 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.5
< 1567298450 936319 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Quit: Leaving
> 1567299144 525379 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deadfish14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65851&oldid=65850 5* 03A 5* (+102) 10/* Julia */
> 1567299192 770523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deadfish14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65852&oldid=65851 5* 03A 5* (+257) 10/* R */
> 1567299242 527429 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deadfish14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65853&oldid=65852 5* 03A 5* (+1422) 10/* A:; */
> 1567300390 49870 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65854&oldid=65635 5* 03A 5* (+45) 10/* Sandbox */ new section
< 1567303580 766973 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
> 1567308089 483106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Zzo3814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65855&oldid=52832 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+503) 10/* I'd like to learn about AAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! more. */ new section
< 1567308155 954721 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
> 1567308197 257916 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07AAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65856&oldid=63961 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+130) 10/* See Also */
> 1567308919 567237 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:ABCDXYZ14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=65857 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+127) 10Created page with "== Link to implementation? == --~~~~"
< 1567312169 476575 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bsuqvwxztnmayouu QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1567312942 215487 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567314671 221889 :MrBismuth!~ArcMrBism@2600:6c58:4200:ad9:5dbf:930:c3bc:bf4 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567314984 980316 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:d8bf:cc89:a495:266c JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567315259 975807 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:d8bf:cc89:a495:266c QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1567317848 812556 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567320173 980553 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:7d22:cc86:5e3e:3cc0 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567320227 599437 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:7d22:cc86:5e3e:3cc0 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1567320239 949351 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:7d22:cc86:5e3e:3cc0 JOIN :#esoteric
> 1567321623 287707 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65858&oldid=65843 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (-157) 10/* commands */
> 1567321677 769134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65859&oldid=65858 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (-17) 10/* commands */
> 1567321709 573353 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65860&oldid=65859 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (-12) 10/* commands */
> 1567321744 119266 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65861&oldid=65860 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (+0) 10/* Hello world! */
> 1567321884 118439 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65862&oldid=65861 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (+17) 10/* string types */
> 1567322986 159488 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65863&oldid=65862 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (+39) 10/* commands */
< 1567325189 235390 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567325239 229803 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567326762 835379 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567326976 217641 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1567327226 549957 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1567327371 269639 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567327841 137299 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net PART :#esoteric
< 1567329152 162786 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1567329985 468622 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567330239 230494 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567330475 801969 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567330485 419962 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :B00HAE00AB00eAE00AB00lAE00AB00lAE00AB00oAE00AB00,AE00AB00 AE00AB00wAE00AB00oAE00AB00rAE00AB00lAE00AB00dAE00AB00!AE00AG
< 1567330519 539035 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you like it?
< 1567330648 921636 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this it?
< 1567330780 590673 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :current sample
< 1567330840 375045 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :still working on the specifics
< 1567330878 59521 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a "Hello, world!" program
< 1567331012 42917 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :B00HAE00A = put 00 'H' act out 00 act
< 1567331143 664050 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are still numerous bugs to be worked out
< 1567331248 292022 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :and figuring out how i will code this in c
< 1567331336 788590 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, i think i'm typing in prefix notation when i should be using postfix
< 1567331635 288856 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :B00HAE00A maybe should be 4800BA00EA
< 1567331963 166307 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :480000BA00EA690000BA00EA210000BA00EAG
< 1567331971 539410 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's more like it
< 1567332125 30111 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :crap, move the 'G' at the end to the beginning so we get the famous "!iH" message
< 1567332244 109942 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll type more *after* i have these bugs worked out.
< 1567332555 233667 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.242 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567334543 432213 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :this make more sense?
< 1567334549 294035 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :000001@C000b00@K00GB00F000101@Q01@CL.Hello, world!
< 1567336005 157976 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567336738 650822 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1567336826 598179 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567338417 392428 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1567338433 230368 :atslash!~atslash@46.188.0.82 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567341363 473011 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567344928 523221 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1567345133 406147 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recognize the language, which makes this rather boring.
< 1567345188 527155 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: I presume what’s considered esoteric in part depends on our history. By this day, there is many things which were novel in their days because of obfuscation of code. Now, obfuscation alone is usually not enough to be interesting
< 1567345197 406336 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :L100010@Q10@B00@D00@Cb00000@J000010B.Hello, world!
< 1567345276 600677 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, you could be pasting random strings and I would be just as thrilled.
< 1567345287 501629 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1567345298 981960 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :several people don’t consider obfuscation alone esoteric from the start, even. Ideally, a good esolang is a whole from which you can’t subtract anything or add anything to it (ideally)
< 1567345318 709379 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it could include several striking ideas
< 1567345338 77110 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though sometimes there are too many. Though usually it’s pretty subjective
< 1567345403 53912 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can’t advice, my esolangs are quite ordinary
< 1567345416 556774 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though one time I had an obfuscation idea
< 1567345474 900906 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was to represent various constructs of a simple functional language by fearful mathematical expressions like integrals
< 1567345492 878522 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: I might care if I knew how to decipher this, that is, what the underlying language is... then I could jump to the meta level and ponder questions like computational power, the ability to make quines, stuff like that, which I find interesting.
< 1567345502 784581 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an anonymous function was expressed as ∫ body d var
< 1567345533 525357 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's not a promise though... a lot of the time I find something too similar to something else I already know and leave it at that.)
< 1567345541 828132 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was quite fun for me, though I don’t think someone would like write in it more than ten or so programs
< 1567345554 857021 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://paste.ee/p/p4BVc
< 1567345560 338840 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: yes, indefinite integrals have binders! :)
< 1567345565 928808 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was glad how it looked in LaTeX
< 1567345578 531919 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: indeed, that was why I used them
< 1567345596 786696 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(definite ones as well, but they also have bounds, which are a bit odd in programming... especially since you get two of them)
< 1567345611 839524 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: thanks
< 1567345616 43755 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I’d described that draft on the wiki for fun but it requires math support :P
< 1567345679 746724 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( Hosted by cloudflare: [email protected]@[email protected]@[email protected], world! )
< 1567345802 741104 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I've seen such code in mailing list archives
< 1567345914 489424 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :A - M leave nothing behind, N - Z leave a single value behind. forgot to type that.
< 1567345923 649737 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: oh I was wrong, an integral is a function definition, ∫ anonymous-function-body d defined-name
< 1567346017 457479 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like my named let syntax more: \prod_name arg1 ∧ value1 ∨ … ∨ argn ∧ valuen ∨ body
< 1567346053 515663 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: that's nasty :P
< 1567346076 488382 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I guess you called that language "continuous integration" to make it easy to find on google
< 1567346094 726521 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: (rofl)
< 1567346162 851542 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://paste.ee/p/Orcqj
< 1567346172 442363 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry about that
< 1567346210 15257 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: also there are string literals which can contain [A-Za-z] and are written in \mathfrak
< 1567346333 903020 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: is the "jump counter" what would normally be a "program counter"?
< 1567346357 716955 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: stylish
< 1567346363 640245 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no...
< 1567346397 898296 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :it counts jump recursion from while or if ops
< 1567346425 118297 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :name is holdover from earlier draft
< 1567346430 425925 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1567346434 246903 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so Hello world in TeX syntax will be \{\mathfrak{Hello}^\sigma\{p_{32}\
< 1567346436 798039 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1567346445 74834 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was not finished
< 1567346548 541900 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\{\mathfrak{Hello}^\sigma\{p_{32}\mid\mathrm{sg}\}^\sigma\mathfrak{world}^\sigma\{p_{33}\mid\mathrm{sg}\}\mid\mathscr E\}
> 1567346571 555104 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:FAKE100714]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=65864 5* 03FAKE1007 5* (+9) 10Created page with "Hi there."
< 1567346657 662138 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: I don't think I can piece it together just yet. Btw, for stack manipulation, there's the notation (from Forth, I believe) i1 ... in -- o1 ... om, so for example addition could be specified as a b -- a+b.
< 1567346728 797614 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of \{ arg \mid f \}, one should really write \varepsilon^{f}arg (or arg^{f}\varepsilon), but the former deprecated syntax is just imaginarily-deprecated; a1 ^{f} a2 ^{f} a3 is equivalent to \{ a1, a2, a3 \mid f \} and so on and \{ \mid f \} ≡ \varepsilon^{f}
< 1567346781 260216 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I'm not really following anymore btw.
< 1567346863 853353 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it’s okay (for completeness, σ concatenates lists, sg(a) gives [a], p_n means n, strings are lists of integers, ℰ writes a string to output)
< 1567347127 959621 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: thanks for looking
< 1567347711 194005 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :making some minor fixes, no point in re-uploading
< 1567349485 517775 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1567349835 929940 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simplification:
< 1567349836 118134 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stack 1: B@100000K@000012C@00D@00LA
< 1567349836 118175 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stack 2: Hello, world!
< 1567349861 619306 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn
< 1567349891 11611 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stack 1: B@100000K@000021C@00D@00LA
< 1567349942 201366 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is with stacks being read from left
> 1567350003 841163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Random Malbolge14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=65865 5* 03Palaiologos 5* (+703) 10Created page with "Random Malbolge is esoteric programming language made by [[User:Palaiologos]] in 2019. Programs in Random Malbolge have following form: ``` nChars nOffset rSeed [... n times]..."
> 1567350046 2689 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Random Malbolge14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65866&oldid=65865 5* 03Palaiologos 5* (+10) 10Fix the code formatting.
> 1567350103 164592 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65867&oldid=65701 5* 03Palaiologos 5* (+22) 10
< 1567352722 235955 :atslash!~atslash@46.188.0.82 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1567352773 712056 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567353816 62659 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :with current set of ops: JU00030U4S000AG ~= putchar(rand()%10 + 48)
< 1567354051 664996 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i rearranged some things
< 1567354135 102462 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that esoteric?
< 1567354563 615873 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :never mind
< 1567354592 381189 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PART :#esoteric
< 1567354637 803370 :Guest24768!~G33kDude@c-174-53-70-27.hsd1.wv.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.4
< 1567354724 859439 :GeekDude!~G33kDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567355503 981330 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1567355507 913038 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello
< 1567355901 482675 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567356087 875343 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1567356372 347636 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey kmc how are you doing
< 1567356389 404958 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty good
< 1567358765 513816 :MDude!~MDude@76.5.108.106 QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)
< 1567358769 426109 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567358814 8178 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567359001 389067 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
> 1567360146 643363 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rejji14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=65868 5* 03FAKE1007 5* (+4978) 10Created page with "'''Rejji''' is a programming language made by ~~~ in 2019. == Commands == ln('''text''') - Prints text to screen from new line. pr('''text''') - Prints text to screen on the..."
> 1567360196 973388 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:FAKE100714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65869&oldid=65864 5* 03FAKE1007 5* (+70) 10
< 1567360253 96295 :BWBellairs!~bwbellair@hellomouse/dev/bwbellairs QUIT :Quit: boxmein's znc went down :(
> 1567360308 382415 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rejji14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65870&oldid=65868 5* 03FAKE1007 5* (+2) 10
< 1567361629 986558 :BWBellairs!~bwbellair@hellomouse/dev/bwbellairs JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567362157 754804 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-fjinypizbcisjbon QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1567362340 88780 :glowcoil!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wmosjqvtvuafuwpb QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
> 1567362409 313909 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Hakerh400 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:Grid entities.png10]]"
< 1567362420 319144 :glowcoil!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pediusiqbonjavde JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567362437 493728 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-nlsqmzuxxdekfpuw JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567363407 451438 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like Scrabble with Go stones and chess pieces also?
< 1567363429 819823 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that work?
< 1567363633 443059 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought how to make Scrabble with Go stones, but there might be other way too possibly a better way than what I have. I haven't thought of how to do with Go and chess.
< 1567363698 298331 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :After each turn if you played any letters, you may play a Go stone on a vacant cell, and then make captures. Keep track of who played each letter; they are like Go stones but will not be captured until the game ends.
< 1567363778 720204 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can play letters where there are currently stones; this removes the stones and affects your score according to which stones have been removed in this way and which letters were played there, but you are not allowed to play if your total score for that turn would be zero or negative.
< 1567363805 235880 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also you cannot play two wild cards and nothing else on the first turn of the game, since, that would earn zero points.)
< 1567364066 592691 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but.. do the stones go to the crossings of the lines, and the letters in the squares between them?
< 1567364148 983949 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stones go in the same square where the letters would go, in how I have, so that they can interfere with each other.
< 1567364223 273952 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and do the letter multipliers of the board apply to a stone, and does it apply to a letter tile if it's played on a stone?
< 1567364261 839070 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what's the exchange rate for go points to scrabble points?
< 1567364332 488178 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The multiplier still applies to a letter played on a stone, but if it is opponent's stone then that letter is worth nothing for that turn. If it is your own stone then it is one more than normal. Word multipliers do not apply to stones, but letter multipliers do.
< 1567364387 982374 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have Go points and Scrabble points at 1:1 (and you will add them when the game ends), but I don't know if a different exchange rate may be better. Also, if a letter is captured at the end of the game then whoever played that letter loses its base value (ignoring all multiplies).
< 1567364476 882391 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do turns work? do you place one go stone and then one scrabble word or other scrabble move in your turn?
< 1567364489 826669 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, you said go stone after the scrabble move
< 1567364507 840041 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and only if you actually played any letters. You cannot add a stone without also adding at least one letter.
< 1567364541 362983 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It is, however, allowed to play one or more letters and then not play a stone.)
< 1567364546 365515 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this might work
< 1567364756 269267 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you play with reversi stones instead of go stones, and stones can convert other stones as in reversi, with tiles counting as empty space for the purpose of conversion?
< 1567364783 669266 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that could be another game, I suppose; you can try that.
< 1567364960 691749 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
> 1567365563 27293 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Hakerh400 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:Esolang Grid - cursor and lines.png10]]"
< 1567365633 974261 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567365773 667078 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? password
< 1567365775 604903 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The password of the month is surprising.
< 1567365919 914085 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn The password of the month is ninjaed.
< 1567365922 303768 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relearned 'password': The password of the month is ninjaed.
< 1567365929 694771 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MWAHAHAHA*
< 1567365951 678245 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly you didn't seem in much of a hurry.
< 1567366012 390677 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't.
< 1567366037 967968 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was happy about the final surprise ;-)
< 1567366107 863748 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I feel I got more than my fair share of potms recently.
< 1567366260 641013 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I strangely misread this as “potm points” and was about to ask if there are points
< 1567366357 492595 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cwlprits password
< 1567366359 633749 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjän int-̈e shachäf int-̈e fizzïe int-̈e fizzïe int-̈e int-̈e b_jonäs int-̈e int-̈e oerjän oerjän int-̈e int-̈e oerjän int-̈e oerjän oerjän oerjän int-̈e int-̈e oerjän oerjän shachäf oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän int-̈e shachäf shachäf oerjän boil̈y oerjän int-̈e int-̈e oerjän shachäf shachäf oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän gameman̈j int-̈e
< 1567366389 850247 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's month again
< 1567366414 898903 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just another September.
< 1567366436 423437 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hurl wisdom/password
< 1567366437 365063 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/log/tip/wisdom/password
< 1567366530 143354 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :has it really been 11 months since i set it
< 1567366607 418260 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing, isn't it
< 1567366887 964042 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tzmscblznoylkhnq JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567367222 331677 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the next password of the month could accidentally be not what it seems
< 1567368304 232088 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-nlsqmzuxxdekfpuw QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1567368422 214977 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-kcmrbxzazslmdauo JOIN :#esoteric
> 1567368623 75550 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rejji14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65873&oldid=65870 5* 03Ais523 5* (-39) 10unpipe link to userspace
< 1567369753 264760 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1567370421 418469 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567370551 264249 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1567370595 598589 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1567370709 907653 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` hg log -T "{date|shortdate}\n" wisdom/password
< 1567370711 250916 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2019-09-01 \ 2019-08-01 \ 2019-07-01 \ 2019-06-02 \ 2019-05-01 \ 2019-04-09 \ 2019-03-30 \ 2019-02-04 \ 2019-02-03 \ 2019-01-01 \ 2018-12-01 \ 2018-11-01 \ 2018-10-02 \ 2018-09-05 \ 2018-08-03 \ 2018-07-20 \ 2018-06-03 \ 2018-05-05 \ 2018-04-14 \ 2018-04-14 \ 2018-03-07 \ 2018-02-15 \ 2017-12-31 \ 2017-12-01 \ 2017-12-01 \ 2017-11-04 \ 2017-10-01 \ 2017-09-02 \ 2017-08-22 \ 2017-08-16 \ 2017-07-11 \ 2017-06-02 \ 2017-06-02 \ 2017-06-02 \ 2017-05-14 \ 2017-
< 1567371861 992738 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I’m dreaming about setting the password the next month. Of course I’ll forget and be too slow to matter
< 1567371942 424377 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad immodest thoughts
< 1567371992 343509 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, modest is related to modus
< 1567372272 184068 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: you could ask a computer that has a clock and is good at remembering dates to set it in your name at the start of next month
< 1567372424 642802 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: hmmmm though 0: UTC is 5: here so if I won’t repair my schedule I can be there in person and need only a reminder
< 1567372526 488144 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( maybe it's time for a potmlist :-P )
< 1567372624 492450 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: announcing the time has come or announcing when the new is set?
< 1567372643 141752 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the phase of the moon list, announcing every new moon and every full moon
< 1567372662 565260 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: the former :P (and generalizing the concept to a waiting list)
< 1567372673 556162 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: :D oh that would be more useful
< 1567372683 570409 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, s/generalizing/adapting/
< 1567372718 248813 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I hope this sounds ridiculous.)
< 1567372725 171348 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like moonphases more, yes
< 1567372732 500542 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe warning a few days before new moon and a few days before full moon, to be able to prepare for werewolves and other magic
< 1567372862 78160 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it include updates for Phobos and Deimos?
< 1567372925 16087 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I had occurring something useful on full moon, but no, the most I get is that white-gray dish staring in the window. Though it adds some comfort
< 1567373095 188317 :MDude!~MDude@76.5.108.106 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567373181 401402 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :today I reread domino examples in Concrete mathematics, they’re just too good
< 1567373192 128495 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
< 1567373329 144218 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also reminds me I have almost no clue about combinatory species and especially their computational aspects (like enumeration or counting)
< 1567373384 523250 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn’t there something like a Baez page on them?
< 1567373680 568963 :ARCUN!6cf5fc98@108-245-252-152.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567373716 410825 :ARCUN!6cf5fc98@108-245-252-152.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it would be cool to not only parse HTML using regex, but to combine them in some way
< 1567373744 544742 :ARCUN!6cf5fc98@108-245-252-152.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A markup language that operates using regex, called REML
< 1567373796 762796 :ARCUN!6cf5fc98@108-245-252-152.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, I don't believe it's possible to completely parse HTML with regex, but the idea is nice
< 1567374391 533922 :ARCUN!6cf5fc98@108-245-252-152.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a language that uses the REML concept would be befitting for the wiki
< 1567374404 572903 :ARCUN!6cf5fc98@108-245-252-152.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's definitely not your everyday language
> 1567375514 960680 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Hakerh400 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:Esolang Grid - Fragments.png10]]"
< 1567375515 568561 :ARCUN!6cf5fc98@108-245-252-152.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1567376466 20006 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tzmscblznoylkhnq QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1567378101 417680 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567378136 99120 :Camto[m]!camtomatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-jajxgsvybiaxgeuz QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1567378230 469929 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1567378305 941114 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1567378410 682734 :Camto[m]!camtomatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-vgbqdvujupbyfhqh JOIN :#esoteric
> 1567379234 101365 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07+-14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65875&oldid=63919 5* 03Voltage2007 5* (+977) 10
< 1567380019 887888 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :
> 1567383195 162626 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GML14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65876&oldid=46716 5* 03B jonas 5* (+8) 10
< 1567383638 308911 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am writing "pollcube" software for making a survey. What formats of questions might it be? So far I have "Select all that apply", "Select [number]", "Select up to [number]", "Select [number] to [number]", "Enter any text", "Enter a number up to [number]", "Enter numbers adding up to [number]", and "Enter numbers adding up to not more than [number]".
< 1567383697 223015 :MDude!~MDude@76.5.108.106 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1567384391 641216 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: a table of multiple questions, one question per table row, where you select an option button with a fixed small number of buttons for each question, and short labels for the answers above, poll creator chooses the short labels eg. they could be (true, false) or (1,2,3,4,5,N/A)
< 1567384428 696320 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: also option buttons to select exactly one answer, and a version where the last option is write-in with a text box
< 1567384429 219614 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567384469 903981 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: also perhaps a field where you enter either a number or nothing
< 1567384519 418186 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for entering text, you probably want both short (one-line) answer input fields and longer answer textareas
< 1567384607 388625 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
> 1567384689 988091 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Beets14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=65877 5* 03Qpliu 5* (+2703) 10Created page with "The Beets programming language enables expressing calculations on infinite binary trees of bits. ==Grammar== program = definition* definition = identifier identifier* '='..."
> 1567384699 919550 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65878&oldid=65867 5* 03Qpliu 5* (+12) 10/* B */
< 1567384708 141506 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1567384972 110022 :MDude!~MDude@76.5.108.106 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567385545 211726 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.242 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1567389670 909476 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: "Select one" would mean you have to select exactly one; it is a case of the "Select [number]" format.
< 1567389725 989445 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any case, the system is designed to be UI-independent. Still, the table of questions is a suitable idea.
< 1567389779 737466 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :A version where the last option is write-in with a text box, is one idea I did think of though; if it says "(please specify)" then you can add your own text.
< 1567390001 409082 :adu!~ajr@pool-173-73-86-191.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567391055 468456 :MrBismuth!~ArcMrBism@2600:6c58:4200:ad9:5dbf:930:c3bc:bf4 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1567394947 606656 :MrBismuth!~ArcMrBism@2600:6c58:4200:ad9:50dd:627b:a242:9770 JOIN :#esoteric
> 1567395353 125019 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pxem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65879&oldid=65222 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+0) 10/* Conditional looping */
> 1567401326 308846 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:YamTokTpaFa/sandbox414]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65880&oldid=64854 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+1284) 10
> 1567401692 279521 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:YamTokTpaFa14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65881&oldid=65804 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+136) 10
> 1567401782 176231 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:YamTokTpaFa/sandbox514]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=65882 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+135) 10Created page with "'''Qyfn''' (official pronunciation: ku-you-fu-na) is a programming language designed by [[User:YamTokTpaFa]], a derivation of [[Pxem]]."
< 1567403628 774859 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Are you going to http://events.cs.bham.ac.uk/syco/strings3-syco5/ ?
> 1567406050 79036 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Hakerh400 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:Esolang "Grid" - example of initial grid transformation.png10]]"
> 1567409668 934588 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Hakerh400 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:Esolang "Grid" - example of connecting external shapes.png10]]"
< 1567410315 27889 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567411593 899955 :adu!~ajr@pool-173-73-86-191.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: adu
< 1567411678 3036 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567411711 954734 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sure, multiple UIs can work for the same questionnaire, but you still need some hints in the questions so that the UI can present the forms reasonably
< 1567411729 766650 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTML already works sort of like that
< 1567412330 970799 :tromp_!~tromp@ip-213-127-58-74.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567412535 951958 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:7d22:cc86:5e3e:3cc0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
> 1567412542 835732 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Hakerh400 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:Esolang "Grid" - Example of connecting internal shapes 1.png10]]"
< 1567413739 475867 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567413752 290639 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1567413964 435812 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567417048 79520 :MDude!~MDude@76.5.108.106 QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)
< 1567422472 777174 :xylochoron[m]!xylochoron@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-jgrzgtnrhdlsolyn QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1567422472 777239 :ivzem[m]!ivzemmatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-gyihruazwgiwmswh QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1567422475 591200 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ncczfxvtukhbvxzj QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1567422498 715734 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-nyrluaouspeotanf QUIT :Write error: Connection reset by peer
< 1567422823 620807 :Camto[m]!camtomatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-biashtdjbgpiqweh JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567424162 453220 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-wwbrvavikfquqrdr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567424162 529674 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ygkrcyzmejclvgli JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567424162 567778 :xylochoron[m]!xylochoron@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-dsnxactigjgjnnqm JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567424170 597133 :ivzem[m]!ivzemmatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-xdxepdzvghfmmovu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567425000 431330 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1567427133 973161 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.122 JOIN :#esoteric
> 1567427219 953773 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Hakerh400 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:Esolang "Grid" - loop.png10]]"
< 1567428010 979050 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mgqnlfgmaugyuebp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567429685 225414 :MDude!~MDude@76.5.108.106 JOIN :#esoteric
> 1567433139 478213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello++14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65887&oldid=58441 5* 03Gamer 5* (+426) 10/* Interpreter */
< 1567435340 241867 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567435527 131123 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
> 1567436031 919723 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Enigma-2D14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65888&oldid=62056 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+41) 10Linking
> 1567436359 309470 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pxem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65889&oldid=65879 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+6) 10/* pxemi.7z and text2pxem.pl */
> 1567436676 711086 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65890&oldid=65762 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+302) 10/* Pxem */
< 1567438633 813554 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1567438974 132759 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567439158 217901 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1567439435 182113 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I learned enough QuickCheck to write some crude property tests for the Robin interpreter. To do it properly I'd probably want to make custom generators for particular kinds of expressions (particularly environments), and so forth.
< 1567439464 13556 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will probably release Robin 0.4 tomorrow and then not think about it for a long time again.
< 1567439503 971811 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's absolutely no reason you should care, I'm just typing this out as some sort of coping mechanism probably.
< 1567439529 349606 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 QUIT :Quit: A la prochaine.
< 1567439590 564208 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Future cpressey, who I assume log reads, are you OK?
< 1567443722 293049 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567444719 997533 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567445219 436057 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-14.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567446488 279394 :tromp_!~tromp@ip-213-127-58-74.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1567446587 902255 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-58-74.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567446646 975393 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:71fc:e507:99a9:16d0 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567446647 296527 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-58-74.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1567448852 755453 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose if you want to use bitmap fonts or other external fonts with PostScript, one possibility might be to define a Type 3 font which is programmed to determine the current position on the page and to write that together with the character code to a separate output file, and then afterward, they can be combined with the main output file.
< 1567449069 822225 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-14.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: but postscript already supports bitmap fonts in some existing font formats
< 1567449347 975114 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to work that? I also don't know if it is a feature that Ghostscript supports
< 1567449628 952356 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-14.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't know, ask the converters that make postscript from TeX's dvi files and use TeX fonts
< 1567449667 359114 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-14.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think ghostscript supports it
< 1567449766 30923 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-14.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.ghostscript.com/doc/9.27/Fonts.htm says something about BDF fonts
< 1567449878 435335 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, although that just converts a bitmap font into a Type 1 font, which will not be of a such good quality.
< 1567449922 234898 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-14.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, so maybe get the TeXlive sources and look at how they handle TeX fonts
< 1567449948 145775 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-14.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never tried to dive into those details
< 1567450024 556563 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:71fc:e507:99a9:16d0 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1567450129 167388 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are also other uses of external fonts other than bitmap fonts, such as if you want to convert PostScript or DVI.
< 1567450170 209017 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-14.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sure
< 1567450200 914929 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-14.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, python doesn't seem to have an equivalent of the perl/sed tr operator that also gives you the count of characters it's replaced
< 1567450204 737417 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-14.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a pity
< 1567450278 428204 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-14.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I guess since it also doesn't have the bitwise operators for bytes objects, so you couldn't do that sort of thing so easily anyway
< 1567451863 941399 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:71fc:e507:99a9:16d0 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567451907 426209 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:71fc:e507:99a9:16d0 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1567451923 979454 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:71fc:e507:99a9:16d0 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567453450 524176 :MrBusiness3!~ArcMrBism@2600:6c58:4200:ad9:50dd:627b:a242:9770 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567453648 24624 :MrBismuth!~ArcMrBism@2600:6c58:4200:ad9:50dd:627b:a242:9770 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1567454926 188688 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1567455073 411442 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567455131 198340 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-14.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1567456819 211174 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-14.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that's evil
< 1567456982 257071 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567457023 465417 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1567457160 429364 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1567457240 60396 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I wrote a program in PostScript to write out JSON data to a file. For example, if the PostScript code is: << /hello true /world false /this [1 2 5 << /a (aaa) /b (ccc\\ddd\n123"!@#$) >> null] /that << /hello false /world true >> then it will write: {"that":{"world":true,"hello":false},"world":false,"hello":true,"this":[1,2,5,{"a":"aaa","b":"ccc\u005Cddd\u000A123\u0022!@#$"},null]}
< 1567457283 619454 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The next thing to write is to parse the JSON data.)
< 1567457323 958313 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-14.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you need a JSON parser? isn't it generally more convenient to make the other side write postscript code? or do you want to parse untrusted data?
< 1567457349 586128 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In case the other side is not meant to work with PostScript.
< 1567457372 605852 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But is rather a program designed to be used with stuff other than PostScript.
< 1567457974 842054 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mgqnlfgmaugyuebp QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
> 1567458463 245366 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65891&oldid=65863 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (-1065) 10I have another language in draft from my head, so i used [za hando] to replace it with another one in draft.
> 1567458567 165168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65892&oldid=65891 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (+7) 10/* Beginning of the Sandbox line */
> 1567459060 153903 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65893&oldid=65892 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (+0) 10/* instruction wheels */
> 1567459651 197863 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65894&oldid=65893 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (+305) 10/* instruction wheels */
< 1567462251 973629 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.122 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1567462732 809904 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble QUIT :Quit: 𝑽𝒆𝒍𝒐𝒄𝒊𝒓𝒂𝒑𝒕𝒐𝒓
< 1567462909 518046 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567463359 663989 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :
> 1567463851 732796 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Underload14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65895&oldid=57502 5* 03CatIsFluffy 5* (+0) 10/* Numbers */ Alignment of 1
< 1567463956 879010 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1567466985 98991 :budonyc!~budonyc@c-24-62-204-147.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1567467054 501939 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Underload/Numbers14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65896&oldid=43690 5* 03CatIsFluffy 5* (-14) 10optimize a few numbers
< 1567470226 790572 :ivzem[m]!ivzemmatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-xdxepdzvghfmmovu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1567470242 648957 :Camto[m]!camtomatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-biashtdjbgpiqweh QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1567470251 720656 :xylochoron[m]!xylochoron@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-dsnxactigjgjnnqm QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1567470256 252059 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ygkrcyzmejclvgli QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1567470256 537598 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-wwbrvavikfquqrdr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1567470721 695931 :Camto[m]!camtomatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-jcbjzllunqebinmp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567471153 810748 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567471208 881247 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this esoteric or just confusing? https://paste.ee/p/8JCjK
< 1567471897 223924 :MDude!~MDude@76.5.108.106 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1567471943 310100 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fgtdkxmnxqffajyg JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567471943 916572 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-idmcbvpovfbwuywt JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567471943 960498 :xylochoron[m]!xylochoron@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ucebfsfbbespuavj JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567471949 274513 :MDude!~MDude@76.5.108.106 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567471951 7435 :ivzem[m]!ivzemmatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-kgbvsicjgmioiwgs JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567472102 681546 :budonyc!~budonyc@c-24-62-204-147.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1567472374 338495 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the ability for PostScript programs to have command-line arguments specific to Ghostscript? (Even if so, it would be possible to emulate it just as well with other implementations.)
> 1567473158 162020 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Grid14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=65897 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+23410) 10New language: Grid
< 1567473196 889203 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hi
> 1567473274 937595 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65898&oldid=65878 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+11) 10Add "Grid" to the language list
> 1567473333 766594 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Hakerh40014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65899&oldid=64427 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+11) 10
< 1567473350 560878 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello
< 1567473414 429111 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you take a look at the language specs i posted and give me your opinion?
< 1567473440 274300 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked at it, and currently do not have something to say about it.
< 1567473458 113317 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally got it working
< 1567473546 189574 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's my first with loops
< 1567473584 61640 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of jumps
< 1567473789 180532 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my first that doesn't require an "assembler"
< 1567474247 513853 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://paste.ee/p/m0sel better paste (has source)
> 1567474697 543697 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Grid14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65900&oldid=65897 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+1) 10
< 1567475111 77952 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat QUIT :Quit: leaving
> 1567475251 18926 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Grid14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65901&oldid=65900 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+0) 10
> 1567475315 905421 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Grid14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65902&oldid=65901 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+0) 10
< 1567475424 609654 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-evenebqtoeflwoye JOIN :#esoteric
> 1567475529 121967 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Grid14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65903&oldid=65902 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (-5) 10
> 1567475649 935011 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Grid14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65904&oldid=65903 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+1) 10
< 1567481064 413356 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1567481092 319761 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1567483440 594668 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Underload/Numbers14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65905&oldid=65896 5* 03CatIsFluffy 5* (-17) 10Run length encoding
> 1567488051 740330 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Underload/Numbers14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65906&oldid=65905 5* 03CatIsFluffy 5* (-17) 10removing old 36
> 1567488404 795613 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Underload/Numbers14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65907&oldid=65906 5* 03CatIsFluffy 5* (-25) 10A few more changes
> 1567492712 238566 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65908&oldid=65782 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (+173) 10/* Stupid */
< 1567492808 227045 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-evenebqtoeflwoye QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1567495556 138793 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-14.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1567496511 494821 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567496857 337430 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pythagorus's Lesser Known Theorem: the square of one side of an equilateral triangle is equal to the average of the squares of the other two sides.
< 1567497273 647808 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, Pythagorus, yeah, he was Pythagoras's cousin dontchaknow.
< 1567499389 118416 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567499703 894248 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: no, that theorem is more general. it says that for a triangle with a pi/3 or 2*pi/3 angle (rather than a right angle), c = a**2 + b**2 \pm a*b, where a and b are the sides next to that angle, c is the side opposite of that, and you take the negative sign for the non-acute angle. what you say is the special case for a=b and acute angle.
< 1567499719 20536 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no argh, I said that wront
< 1567499726 13069 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that theorem is more general. it says that for a triangle with a pi/3 or 2*pi/3 angle (rather than a right angle), c = a**2 + b**2 \pm a*b, where a and b are the sides next to that angle, c is the side opposite of that, and you take the negative sign for the acute angle. what you say is the special case for a=b and acute angle.
< 1567499745 242997 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: due to unique properties of equilateral triangles, it's also equal to the geometric mean of the squares of the other two sides
< 1567499812 749260 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also http://www.madore.org/~david/weblog/d.2013-12-17.2175.trigonometrie-triangle.html is a handy reference for triangle formulas on euclidean, hyperbolic and spheric triangles
< 1567499817 613098 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of those formulas count as lesser known too
< 1567499994 262300 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.122 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567500142 259625 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1567500303 652336 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567501054 959357 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1567501936 524996 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pth14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=65909 5* 03A 5* (+945) 10Created page with "[[Pth]] is a dedicated declarative path-finding language created in order to make path-finding challenges on CGCC very trivial. ==Example program==
# Transition starts..."
< 1567502239 102954 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: are you reading the whole madore website?
< 1567502488 343979 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: IIRC he said he’s not as familiar with older posts there when we were talking about card deck design
< 1567502818 860645 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: no, but most of the new posts.
< 1567502836 435552 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I haven't read most of the older year's blog part, and probably won't
< 1567502840 666228 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :years'
> 1567504081 26160 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pth14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65910&oldid=65909 5* 03A 5* (-181) 10
> 1567504119 766977 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pth14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65911&oldid=65910 5* 03A 5* (+56) 10
< 1567504159 601201 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
> 1567504320 846256 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pth14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65912&oldid=65911 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10
> 1567504394 378879 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pth14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65913&oldid=65912 5* 03A 5* (+2) 10
> 1567504655 55723 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pth14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65914&oldid=65913 5* 03A 5* (+58) 10
< 1567505316 531975 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange... python 3.6 adds a subscripting operator to the re.Match object, but doesn't go the whole way to make it iterable so you can conveniently multipe-assign from it
> 1567506810 997966 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Kritixilithos 5* 10New user account
< 1567507161 117506 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)
> 1567507197 350500 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65915&oldid=65772 5* 03Kritixilithos 5* (+195) 10
> 1567507491 28617 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07AlphaBeta14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65916&oldid=60820 5* 03Kritixilithos 5* (+23) 10Fixed the cat program
< 1567509497 982151 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567509603 47505 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot!
< 1567509603 572717 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: brought home a nice carpet from summer fnord garden shed a tear" as a verb when an existing verb works perfectly well for me
< 1567512312 880137 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was some internet trouble at home.
< 1567512321 828967 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like if they'd provide a little more information about these things.
< 1567512365 658680 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a "dashboard", but it's just an orb that's either green with a hover-tip of "no problems" (paraphrasing), or red with a stock "we're sorry, our engineers are investigating, thank you for your patience" message.
< 1567512465 646311 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Welcome back online.
< 1567512465 891518 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: want an explanation of access either the path or the closure out of it
< 1567512473 550352 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :...scary...
< 1567512501 519974 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Well, as I just said, the ISP isn't too forthcoming with information. Maybe you could contact their support yourself?
< 1567512501 941714 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: e!bf http://kidsquid.com/ fnord translation for this. easy to translate to void fnord blah fnord " a deep dark secret". even though the guy was real idiot...
< 1567512521 998572 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In retrospect, maybe that's not such a great idea.
> 1567515220 958676 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ASCII @14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=65917 5* 03A 5* (+3895) 10Created page with "[[ASCII @]] is a programming language created by [[User:A]], due to failing code-golf competitions because @ instructions sometimes take 2 characters. This transpiles to [[@]]..."
> 1567515565 933250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ASCII @14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65918&oldid=65917 5* 03A 5* (-1) 10
< 1567516371 339806 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:71fc:e507:99a9:16d0 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1567518537 598783 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:71fc:e507:99a9:16d0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1567520235 981570 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:71fc:e507:99a9:16d0 JOIN :#esoteric
> 1567521003 503138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Dominic3203 5* 10New user account
< 1567522403 553870 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1567522708 903442 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 QUIT :Quit: A la prochaine.
< 1567524641 600701 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1178
< 1567524642 974422 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1178: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
< 1567525266 409878 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: want an explanation of access either the path or the closure out of it => I think fungot mentions the free category of a graph! :o
< 1567525266 703950 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: any string containing neither nor is a symbol, whose hash value will itself have been updated with a new program, like bf dev??
< 1567525314 409588 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm stop no paths are already a “closure” of a graph’s edges
< 1567525469 696005 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: neither nor?
< 1567525470 151870 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: annnd my irssi runs over ssh on bistromath. hrm. that doesn't mean we have the long one, but the
< 1567529187 239845 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567530173 726779 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-190.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567530624 521606 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aqceplhwfwfmzbsu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567532138 84760 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a linear approximation to some f: A → B, to have a graph which is a subspace of A × B, A and B are sufficient to be affine spaces (and for graph of f itself to be such, linear spaces). What weakest kind of spaces may A, B be for f’s quadratic approximation to have a graph being a subspace of A × B?
< 1567532161 245031 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly any differentiable manifold suffices but it’s too strong
< 1567532241 147726 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think someone had already developed what those spaces could be
< 1567532296 934414 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe I should restate the question in terms of no graphs and products of spaces, it seems superfluous
< 1567532312 442908 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don’t know how right now
< 1567532400 959064 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I seem to misplace linear spaces here
< 1567532467 98567 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be something of a “constant space”
< 1567532707 185109 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i. e. all or some conic hypersurfaces should be subspaces in this “quadratic-affine space”
< 1567532748 699725 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm isn’t it what affine varieties are about
< 1567532907 204584 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this question is weird, I don’t understand which way it could be restated to make sense of “constant spaces” where only graphs of constant functions are subspaces of dom f × cod f
< 1567534715 264150 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote election
< 1567534716 308892 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :528) Hulu's movie selection is like MST3K without the MST3K characters. \ 943) * ais523 challenges the americans here to remember who lost in the most recent UK general election ais523, the lib dems
> 1567535142 168103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Underload/Numbers14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65919&oldid=65907 5* 03CatIsFluffy 5* (-5) 10A few more improvements
< 1567540180 736653 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aqceplhwfwfmzbsu QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1567543378 623427 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1567543526 547180 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567545730 682053 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1567545859 272678 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1567548564 193874 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567549276 370988 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :
< 1567550555 236725 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1567550572 148875 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567553440 233643 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.122 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1567553456 477586 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567554047 414495 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567554115 514698 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1567554463 100846 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I wrote the JSON parser as well as JSON writer in PostScript.
< 1567554480 860840 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not PSON?
< 1567554577 16437 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only one feature is not yet implemented, which is if JSON.utf8 is true then it will not support Unicode characters outside of the ASCII range yet; that option is supposed to enable that feature. (If JSON.utf8 is false, then it will work, but any \u escapes will use only the low 8-bits of the character code.)
< 1567554624 453631 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: What is PSON?
< 1567555243 364336 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :PostScript Object Notation
< 1567555269 52348 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to use PostScript Object Notation then you can use the built-in commands of PostScript.
< 1567555348 402487 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is good if the data is only written and read by PostScript programs, or if used with other programs that are designed to be used with PostScript, but some programs are not designed for use with PostScript and are using JSON, so, this way, if the external data is JSON then still you can use it with PostScript anyways.
< 1567560234 992756 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usenet article <1567559086.bystand@zzo38computer.org> includes this program. It can also be downloaded from: https://arin.ga/yoZtdL
< 1567560796 234212 :tromp_!~tromp@ip-213-127-58-74.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567560889 982409 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:71fc:e507:99a9:16d0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1567561346 424744 :aloril_!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a4b-4.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567561411 837437 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567561569 881508 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-bcee02-33.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1567562672 918829 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:41b1:8877:c5f6:6e57 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1567566882 837749 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1567568211 243248 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567568406 470647 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1567570900 970888 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567574545 323848 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1567574863 847837 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1567575068 476220 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have a slide rule with roman numbers?
< 1567575092 954096 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567575175 69131 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The numbers keep roamin' back and forth on a log scale.
> 1567575507 15186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Grid14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65920&oldid=65904 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (-1) 10
< 1567579272 184624 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-190.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1567582151 923869 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567583286 151085 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567583808 798189 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good morning. Other than Haskell, I can't think of any popular functional languages that actually forbid mutability. The vast majority provide some kind of destructive update, but frown on using it.
< 1567583849 954113 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1567583871 610291 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in a way there is mutation in haskell, like stref
< 1567583962 467738 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or curry
< 1567583966 435302 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love curry
< 1567583996 43173 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess minikanren doesn't have mutation
< 1567584080 578549 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Curry's not exactly popular, and Minikanren isn't really a language :)
< 1567584092 213133 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah because its not turing complete
< 1567584112 951531 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it needs another language to be embedded in, and that language needs to have things like lambdas
< 1567584229 980963 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :curry is so unpopular, there isn't even an aur package for one of its implementations
< 1567584249 471006 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about LSON
< 1567584254 759607 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lisp Object Notation
< 1567584370 53105 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :are object notations really programming languages?
< 1567584401 563764 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Object Notation
< 1567584431 153159 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~paige/Bon/bon.html
< 1567584459 460675 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://libujo.org/ UJO Data Object Notation is a binary data serialization format for the Internet of Things and machine to machine (M2M) applications. The name UJO is Esperanto and means container
< 1567584463 896209 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is epic cringe\
< 1567584584 496843 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the abbreviation UDON, though
< 1567584590 94179 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sound delicious
< 1567584661 617343 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: hmm, I don't think jq has mutability
< 1567584757 134504 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a streaming language, so it has things that might look like mutability but aren't (they're closer to record updates)
< 1567585073 954070 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1567585082 246436 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567585106 247985 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567585157 417678 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/MakeNowJust/bf.jq
< 1567585221 309268 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Popular enough and Turing-complete enough for someone to have written a Brainfuck interpreter in it"
< 1567585280 790431 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear
< 1567585787 421888 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1567585823 930320 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567586002 604336 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I wrote one of those a couple of months back, https://gist.github.com/Taneb/be9d6d5048ce6ca3c5563df223052c6b
< 1567586069 663420 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mine has partial support for , and is thus vastly superior)
< 1567586347 715386 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed!
< 1567586405 801360 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I like the lack of indentation in the nested ifs
< 1567586435 296576 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1567586686 583828 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a bf interepreter for my editor once, whose scripting language lacks conditionals.
< 1567586696 503436 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1567586697 748576 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can express them in terms of try-catch, though.
< 1567586768 751683 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567587998 567926 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, just like javagony
< 1567588083 685941 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, there's also no recursion.
< 1567588103 688520 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So under normal circumstances infinite loops are impossible.
< 1567588121 794586 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can set things to happen based on events, including "user is idle".
< 1567588143 930228 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1567588216 238053 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 JOIN :#esoteric
> 1567588498 696017 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Interfrac14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65921&oldid=60495 5* 03A 5* (+270) 10
< 1567588555 471403 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1567588724 121912 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Interfrac14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65922&oldid=65921 5* 03A 5* (+360) 10/* Proof that your formula is invalid! */
< 1567588756 49577 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
> 1567588806 633746 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Interfrac14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65923&oldid=65922 5* 03A 5* (+91) 10/* Proof that your formula is invalid! */
< 1567588835 416867 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
> 1567588880 836392 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Interfrac14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65924&oldid=60492 5* 03A 5* (+110) 10/* Introduction */ Your formula is wrong.
> 1567592240 359822 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deadfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65925&oldid=65853 5* 03Kritixilithos 5* (+214) 10added sed interpreter of deadfish
< 1567594646 533872 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1567596758 317304 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.12.87.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
> 1567597961 797383 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Point14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65926&oldid=65799 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (-12) 10/* Hello, world! */
> 1567597971 388025 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Point14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65927&oldid=65926 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (-12) 10/* Countdown */
> 1567597980 213057 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Point14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65928&oldid=65927 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (-12) 10/* Counting up */
> 1567598637 43653 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65929&oldid=65890 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (+55) 10adding more lang because we need to give esolang maker a pleasure
> 1567598773 720778 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ASCII @14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65930&oldid=65918 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (+2) 10dont lie, A, this is unimplemented.
> 1567598941 778201 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PureStack14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65931&oldid=65549 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (+6) 10FTFY, becuaz your example header has a problemsw
< 1567602103 518067 :howlands!gilesgate@sdf-eu.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1567603201 103352 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567603315 338224 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1567608894 415072 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567609077 110260 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
> 1567609104 118845 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pxem14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65932&oldid=65889 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+2) 10/* Output */ sing->pl.
> 1567609146 325030 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pxem14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65933&oldid=65932 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+6) 10/* Input */ an integer->a signed integer
> 1567609249 630837 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pxem14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65934&oldid=65933 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (-12) 10/* Output */
< 1567609329 399096 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally got around to officially releasing and announcing Wagon: https://catseye.tc/article/News.md#our-second-esolang-of-2019-wagon
> 1567609415 794184 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pxem14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65935&oldid=65934 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+64) 10/* Operating stack */
> 1567609440 621124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pxem14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65936&oldid=65935 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (-1) 10/* Operating stack */ del'd s from bold word
> 1567609763 435293 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Trickcode14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=65937 5* 03Trickbrain26 5* (+5237) 10A language by trickbrain26
> 1567609935 831019 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pxem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65938&oldid=65936 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+194) 10/* Operating content of file */
< 1567610027 142963 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
> 1567610094 42577 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pxem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65939&oldid=65938 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+80) 10/* Random value */
< 1567610106 819409 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.12.87.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1567610124 282170 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.12.87.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567610353 178258 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.12.87.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1567610369 990237 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.12.87.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
> 1567610413 990310 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pxem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65940&oldid=65939 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+332) 10/* Conditional looping */
> 1567610504 175904 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pxem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65941&oldid=65940 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+72) 10/* Termination */
> 1567610572 803180 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pxem14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65942&oldid=65941 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (-25) 10/* Arithmetic operation */
> 1567610618 335783 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pxem14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65943&oldid=65942 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+4) 10/* Hello, world! */
> 1567610667 716523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pxem14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65944&oldid=65943 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+12) 10/* Operating content of file */ group
> 1567611725 403941 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65945&oldid=65894 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (+13) 10/* Beginning of the Sandbox line */
< 1567614354 448658 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 QUIT :Quit: A la prochaine.
< 1567616286 966582 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.15.203.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567616511 987613 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.12.87.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1567616515 216921 :arseniiv__!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567616535 537878 :arseniiv__!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru NICK :arseniiv
> 1567616659 477183 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Fusion Tag14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65946&oldid=65494 5* 03Kritixilithos 5* (+2) 10small fix in interpreter
< 1567616691 926484 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.15.203.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
> 1567616923 494070 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nuts14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=65947 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+2125) 10Created page with "{{Stub}} '''Nuts''' is a [[functional]] programming language designed by [https://qiita.com/hogefuga ''@hogefuga'' or '' '' in Qiita], [https://github.com/hoge-fu..."
> 1567617101 338498 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nuts14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65948&oldid=65947 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+29) 10
> 1567617374 979838 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Grass14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65949&oldid=11550 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+262) 10
< 1567617662 314694 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
> 1567617919 5082 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Grass14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65950&oldid=65949 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+74) 10
< 1567619481 245740 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
> 1567619994 472032 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Trickcode14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65951&oldid=65937 5* 03Trickbrain26 5* (+3) 10
< 1567623135 961952 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :what can I do with yeast in Powder Toy?
< 1567623159 9839 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except growing it and making it die)
> 1567623660 916776 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Trickcode14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65952&oldid=65951 5* 03Trickbrain26 5* (+0) 10
> 1567623693 92416 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Trickcode14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65953&oldid=65952 5* 03Trickbrain26 5* (+0) 10
< 1567624196 456314 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric
> 1567624368 775512 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Trickcode14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65954&oldid=65953 5* 03Trickbrain26 5* (+101) 10
< 1567624754 970060 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567625068 330443 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oo list
< 1567625084 624978 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i seem to skip most of the logs these days
< 1567625990 227488 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567627230 292339 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, what cream or filling do you like to eat spongecake with?
< 1567627230 475767 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: read the rest of the u.s.
> 1567628177 225205 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* 10New user account
< 1567629774 655561 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, do you ride the horse?
< 1567629774 905860 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: looks like it ignores z too? :)
< 1567629825 486002 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567629953 610912 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1567630002 459784 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1567630091 300463 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it only ignores you
> 1567630274 882852 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Intramodular Transaction14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=65955 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+3860) 10New language
< 1567630322 902017 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oo erjan
> 1567630353 457569 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Hakerh40014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65956&oldid=65899 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+56) 10
> 1567630420 712180 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65957&oldid=65898 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+56) 10Add new language
< 1567631130 98980 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hichaf
< 1567631178 408088 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567631190 377034 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w
< 1567631193 734421 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:01//01 is an abbreviation that 01 understands. \ newline//Newlines are le/rn's \ biggest weakness. \ // is a space, unless you're hackego and don't understand wide characters. \ prography//Prography is the art of turning computational algorithms into something totally incomprehensible to anyone whose brain isn't made of silicon and arsenic. \ haskell'//Unbound implicit parameter (?haskell::Wisdom) \ arising from a use of implicit par
< 1567631195 425531 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n
< 1567631196 478504 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:ameter `?haskell'
> 1567631371 392348 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Intramodular Transaction14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65958&oldid=65955 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (-3) 10
< 1567633376 447289 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1567634818 760541 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1567634905 583045 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :
< 1567635235 528971 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:57b:36f5:cac2:ca8d JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567636278 474736 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1567636420 386236 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1567637422 966359 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-53.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1567638276 167739 :stux-!stux@cosmo.lunarshells.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567638418 4767 :stux|away!stux@2a01:270:2050:1337::1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1567638509 623731 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tcfdvrkeopgiegyg JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567638583 915518 :tramplefoot!~Tramplefo@78.184.171.141 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567638753 221479 :tramplefoot!~Tramplefo@78.184.171.141 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1567638784 66670 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567639919 358907 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567639942 333623 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone like this: https://paste.ee/p/W69OZ ?
< 1567640185 478431 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need advice about totem, and i hate that i don't know about any other chat rooms
< 1567640317 641838 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:57b:36f5:cac2:ca8d QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1567640428 542671 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:57b:36f5:cac2:ca8d JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567640625 449974 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Sgeo__
< 1567640637 255209 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi Lykaina
< 1567640738 183197 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina, is the "loop nesting memory" a stack? Which instructions use it?
< 1567640738 846496 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you tell me how to find out if this languge i made is esoteric enough to be talked about here?
< 1567640760 254793 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like a stack, i guess
< 1567640794 808172 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :crap...forgot to paste the interpreter's source code
< 1567640837 333981 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :it allows loops to work
< 1567640855 181501 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how much interest it would gather, but I think this language qualifies.
< 1567640859 643908 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :by storing program file positions
< 1567641053 616934 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://paste.ee/p/OKVD1
< 1567641209 670235 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry i get nudge and desparate at times
< 1567641328 140935 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just figured out subroutines
< 1567641407 504218 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: the nesting memory is used by codes N, O, P, and Q
< 1567641516 328536 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. I would suggest the spec stating that, I think?
< 1567641518 879960 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFK soon
< 1567641622 691598 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :k
< 1567642137 790547 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
< 1567642207 211892 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1567643855 923558 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :any other comments about the specs before i re-paste?
< 1567644147 304666 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://paste.ee/p/tloTh updated repaste post Sgeo__'s suggestions...
< 1567644207 186285 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :replaces paste from 19:32:22 edt
< 1567646206 231518 :strangleloop!63cb90bb@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.99.203.144.187 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567646491 212029 :strangleloop!63cb90bb@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.99.203.144.187 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1567646913 998630 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric
> 1567647223 857922 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65959&oldid=65957 5* 03Trickbrain26 5* (+15) 10/* T */
> 1567647293 69254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Trickcode14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65960&oldid=65954 5* 03Trickbrain26 5* (-54) 10
< 1567647403 12159 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://paste.ee/p/Qek9M replaces the source code paste
> 1567647613 735975 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lazy evaluation14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65961&oldid=49764 5* 03CatIsFluffy 5* (+14) 10
< 1567647654 241260 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://paste.ee/p/tloTh information and a sample program is here
< 1567648298 116020 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina, consider adding it to the Esolangs wiki? (If you're willing to put into public domain). I think people often discuss languages themselves on the talk pages
< 1567648340 509187 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If you don't want to put into public domain, then making a page and linking should be fine)
< 1567648355 502807 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :not put the interpreter into public domain when i'm still improving the software
< 1567648386 377034 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I'm not
< 1567648399 406133 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I'm not putting
< 1567648445 131349 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language however...
< 1567648549 186301 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i'm ready
< 1567648598 349691 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to see what features i can squeeze in
< 1567649354 433802 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blah, just discovered that in 2018, my https://esolangs.org/wiki/BF-RLE was replaced with a more general discussion. I'm not sure how to feel about this, I felt like "BF-RLE" named a specific encoding
< 1567649511 583270 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This breaks zzo38's https://esolangs.org/wiki/GrainFimple spec unless GrainFimple's spec is updated to more precisely describe what is meant by BF-RLE
< 1567650165 848594 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
> 1567650214 525033 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65962&oldid=65915 5* 03Toel F 5* (+215) 10/* Introductions */
> 1567650223 212982 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Troll Online14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=65963 5* 03Toel F 5* (+404) 10Created page with "Troll Online is a programming language builded in c#. It can connect to internet. Documentation, interpreter and the source are in this github repository: https://github.com/t..."
> 1567650387 17924 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65964&oldid=65959 5* 03Toel F 5* (+19) 10
> 1567650647 595670 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65965&oldid=65929 5* 03Toel F 5* (+55) 10
> 1567650737 811795 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65966&oldid=65965 5* 03Toel F 5* (+2) 10
< 1567652559 614212 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1567653818 375058 :stux-!stux@cosmo.lunarshells.com QUIT :Quit: Aloha!
< 1567653832 598194 :stux|away!stux@2a01:270:2050:1337::1 JOIN :#esoteric
> 1567655393 621968 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Troll Online14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65967&oldid=65963 5* 03Toel F 5* (+1) 10
< 1567656497 264123 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567657692 397615 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tcfdvrkeopgiegyg QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
> 1567663848 337335 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Euphoria 5* 10New user account
< 1567664695 711966 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like this?
< 1567664729 106536 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: hi kmc
< 1567664735 982905 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-interactive zero-knowledge proofs are tg
< 1567664777 82600 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1567664790 524120 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-interactive non-zero-knowledge non-proofs
< 1567664850 587013 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-interactive hugs
< 1567664953 308688 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer interactive hugs I think
< 1567665018 691160 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too
< 1567665022 391787 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want an interactive hug
< 1567665050 986563 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would like
< 1567667885 216933 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567669703 389617 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567671691 237995 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567671704 208729 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Client Quit
< 1567673127 247920 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1567673308 794951 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567675807 203554 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567675893 953128 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://paste.ee/p/FTqsX fixed typos in license and added copyright notice for spec notes + samples
< 1567677925 374403 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: sort of an esoteric computer architecture plus assembler? Do feel free to make an article on the wiki linking to it!
< 1567678019 328203 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :tg?
< 1567681041 923033 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? tg
< 1567681043 456826 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :TG is short for Turing-Gödel, the highest possible level of difficulty for a multiplayer game. At this level, it's undecidable whether you can manage to halt before losing or not.
< 1567681053 170002 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this entry may be less useful than you might expect
< 1567681065 414055 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: that applies to most wisdom entries
< 1567681091 488433 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is way more useful than the monad one
< 1567681095 253255 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? monad
< 1567681096 498081 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors.
< 1567681100 376843 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're right
< 1567682355 213495 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? kittegory
< 1567682356 439151 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A kittegory is just a small category.
< 1567683308 234212 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567684091 993312 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lcjmjimeotzbksie JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567684121 928147 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1567685216 567641 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded
< 1567685249 91898 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567690151 627908 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> mconcat [\n -> [n+1], \n -> [n-1,n*2]] 4
< 1567690154 233886 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : [5,3,8]
< 1567690338 967670 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\n -> mconcat [[n+1], [n-1,n*2]]) 4
< 1567690341 126962 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : [5,3,8]
< 1567691471 541603 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \x -> foldl (.) id (reverse x) []
< 1567691471 840921 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip (foldl (.) id . reverse) []
> 1567692167 7567 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Garbage14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65968&oldid=63882 5* 03A 5* (-16) 10/* Syntax */
> 1567692341 889693 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Binary to unary conversion14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=65969 5* 03CarlosLuna 5* (+398) 10Asking for a general Unary to Binary conversion algorithm.
< 1567692347 260027 :howlands!gilesgate@sdf-eu.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567692628 363520 :howlands!gilesgate@sdf-eu.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
> 1567693100 618297 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Trash14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=65970 5* 03A 5* (+1921) 10Created page with "[[Trash]] is an even simpler [[esoteric programming language]] that is designed to fullfill the CGCC definition of a programming language. ==Syntax== It is very simple (even s..."
> 1567693182 480085 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Trash14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65971&oldid=65970 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10Typo
< 1567694028 407196 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
> 1567694824 391404 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lazy evaluation14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65972&oldid=65961 5* 03A 5* (+85) 10Not yet.
> 1567695054 33552 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lazy evaluation14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65973&oldid=65972 5* 03A 5* (+218) 10
> 1567695233 869745 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lazy evaluation14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65974&oldid=65973 5* 03A 5* (+123) 10
< 1567695363 786968 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently working on adding bitwise arithmatic
< 1567695483 297037 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 QUIT :Quit: A la prochaine.
< 1567695548 4747 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :vote for name: totem vs echidna
< 1567695575 121213 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Echidna
> 1567695618 605427 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lazy evaluation14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65975&oldid=65974 5* 03A 5* (+308) 10
< 1567695823 253187 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION votes for Echidna
< 1567696060 247215 :howlands!gilesgate@sdf-eu.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567696724 739480 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sif.lesidhetree.com/sara/echidna/spec_notes.pdf
< 1567696736 549809 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :that good?
< 1567696990 201030 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which number does this Befunge code output: 9184611256>\#+:#*9-#\_$.@
< 1567697024 61085 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to know wtf the captcha is talking about as well as the answer
< 1567697084 469231 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :correction: 9504611032>\#+:#*9-#\_$.@
< 1567697114 890314 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: have you tried trying to find a befunge interpreter?
< 1567697128 293467 :howlands!gilesgate@sdf-eu.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1567697132 421651 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know where to find one
< 1567697180 555691 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm trying to register on the wiki
< 1567697287 774260 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you try using a search engine such as Google to find a befunge interpreter?
< 1567697386 935946 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's one on this channel as well?
< 1567697449 311266 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! befunge "olleh">:#,_@
< 1567697450 367880 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello
< 1567697480 657884 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! befunge 9504611032>\#+:#*9-#\_$.@
< 1567697481 352396 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :100512662
> 1567697500 523013 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Lykaina 5* 10New user account
< 1567697550 827191 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty fizzie
< 1567697553 839843 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :FWIW, the https://esolangs.org/wiki/Befunge article's "External resources" section also has a lot of interpreters, including at least two online ones.
< 1567697582 619904 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the weirdist captcha i have ever seen
< 1567697595 216494 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've had issues with spammers.
< 1567697621 288910 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It used to be in Brainfuck, which I guess was a little more approachable?
< 1567697649 859846 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And before/after that it was a quiz on languages.
< 1567697697 308463 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of those were defeated; I think we're maybe assuming by just using humans (to which the current one is vulnerable as well), since it seems unlikely anyone wrote custom code for solving the Brainfuck one, for a website this unpopular.
> 1567697735 927520 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65976&oldid=65962 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+166) 10/* Introductions */
< 1567697756 580443 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That introduction requirement is another anti-spam barrier.)
> 1567697927 421336 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Echidna14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=65977 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+76) 10Adding a placeholder for my language.
> 1567698060 88261 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65978&oldid=65964 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+14) 10/* E */ adding Echidna to language list.
< 1567698087 689796 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :good?
> 1567698305 981255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Echidna14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65979&oldid=65977 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+90) 10adding a link for current information
< 1567698482 979298 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb shower
> 1567698988 781869 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Binary to unary conversion14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65980&oldid=65969 5* 03CarlosLuna 5* (+1055) 10Adding an example of bounded Unary to Binary converter
< 1567699266 122345 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1567699709 258395 :howlands!gilesgate@sdf-eu.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567700179 241087 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567700193 166656 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the current captcha, and I could solve it without an interpreter
< 1567700218 842279 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured out what the loop does, it's like making a base 9 number from those digits but there was some little twist
< 1567700237 696226 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a brainfuck one would be harder
< 1567700245 209962 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably need an actual interpreter for it
> 1567700519 234956 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Binary to unary conversion14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65981&oldid=65980 5* 03CarlosLuna 5* (-504) 10Improving the example of bounded Unary to Binary converter
> 1567700649 854523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Binary to unary conversion14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65982&oldid=65981 5* 03CarlosLuna 5* (+6) 10Adding boldface formatting
< 1567700653 648737 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :gtg
< 1567700683 243623 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1567701628 291707 :howlands!gilesgate@sdf-eu.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1567703117 281873 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: FWIW, the brainfuck one wasn't that bad. I think it produced a random string of the alphabet {a, b, c, d} by first forming the constant `a`, then having a sequence of +s, -s and .s with no loops.
< 1567703275 197398 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, it's a base 9 number except with 9 as a sentinel value and the digits backwards because of the stack.
< 1567703290 412279 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` dc -e '9i 230116405p'
< 1567703291 836627 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :100512662
< 1567704136 264149 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ok, that would work
< 1567704179 446808 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but does it subtract 9 from each digit before interpreting it in base 9?
< 1567704223 55691 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. Well, technically yes, but only for the 'if' condition on whether the digit was 9.
< 1567704309 238789 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flattened out, the relevant snippet is :9-_ aka dup-nine-minus-if; so the stack will have [x x-9] at the _ (where x is the original digit), the _ pops off the x-9 and the rest (\9*+) multiplies the accumulator by 9 and adds x to it.
< 1567704351 847068 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's reusing the 9 both for the 9-_ condition (when going left-to-right) and for the 9* of the accumulator (when going right-to-left).
< 1567704387 633324 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what does the ending with the dollar sign do?
< 1567704408 101237 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That just drops off the extra 9.
< 1567704450 31471 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The full stack at the if is [acc digit digit-9], the _ pops off digit-9 and the $ pops off digit (which in this case must've been 9, since digit-9 was zero) so that . prints the accumulator.
< 1567704461 496086 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, let me look at the befunge rules, I don't remmeber them
< 1567704504 340530 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, makes sense
< 1567704524 316352 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also uses one of the implicit infinite number of 0s under the bottom of the stack as the initial accumulator value.
< 1567704544 725920 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :...or does it. I guess it doesn't.
< 1567704560 966463 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, no, I confused myself. Of course it doesn't, it would hit that sentinel.
< 1567704566 110582 :howlands!gilesgate@sdf-eu.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567704588 155781 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that the last digit (the 2 there) is considered the initial accumulator, not one of the base-9 digits, arguably.
< 1567704658 101587 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that looks about right
< 1567704679 201276 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 9 #. 8 4 6 1 1 2 5 6
< 1567704680 65330 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 40751313
< 1567704693 47268 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, backwards
< 1567704695 711173 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 9 #. |. 8 4 6 1 1 2 5 6
< 1567704696 426251 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 31480937
< 1567704709 831091 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 9 #. |. 5 0 4 6 1 1 0 3 2
< 1567704710 500661 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 100512662
< 1567704911 789995 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turns out the Brainfuck variant was mostly as I described, except with a bigger alphabet. It starts with a common initial prefix that loads 100 'd' (as 10*10), then generates a random sequence of X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X. where each of the Xs is uniformly randomly either "", "+" or "-", except the + or - is omitted if that would make the value less than 97 'a' or more than 122 'z'.
< 1567704934 262050 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still pretty prone to creating strings from the beginning of the alphabet, since it starts from 'd' and does a random walk with a maximum step size of 1.
< 1567704952 58761 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1567704956 639300 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in fact it can never reach 'z' because the longest sequence is 16.
< 1567707611 669842 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567708834 174850 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has Dr. Seuss ever been involved in any lawsuits?
< 1567708907 386003 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@sorunome.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems at least his estate was https://boingboing.net/2019/03/14/fair-use-vs-seuss.html
< 1567709222 219594 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh so some people got to say "Dr. Seuss sues [...]" :)
> 1567710045 629372 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Troll Online14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65983&oldid=65967 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (+3) 10Your page might suck, but i converted the example text to headings.
> 1567710188 674836 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65984&oldid=65966 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (+39) 10/* PUBERTY */
> 1567710540 510658 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Grid14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65985&oldid=65920 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+122) 10Corrected the algorithm description
< 1567711074 659504 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lcjmjimeotzbksie QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1567711868 481872 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
> 1567712009 803350 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Unified HQ9+14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65986&oldid=59395 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (+28) 10
> 1567712046 726850 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Unified HQ9+14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65987&oldid=65986 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (+26) 10
< 1567714938 919557 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.5
< 1567715106 990140 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567715253 954528 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1567715300 12379 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xkcjpdwjpkgizdmq JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567715403 146827 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i must apoligize for misleading everybody into thinking ops L and M in Echidna were functioning. In reality, I haven't even designed the code for those, much less written them.
< 1567715460 498375 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm working on it
< 1567715635 522063 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know the input. i know the intended output
< 1567716143 680451 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :L is done
< 1567716155 879018 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :but untested
< 1567716421 277828 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1567716543 763109 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567716933 681600 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for M now
< 1567717480 253526 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :M isn't working right...
< 1567717638 370095 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither is L
< 1567718136 356779 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :since when does 0xff6a == 0xffb5?
< 1567718143 53142 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :grrr
< 1567718450 201631 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 0xAAAA xor 0x5555 = 0xFFFE ?
< 1567718705 466438 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 0xFFFF AND 0xFFFF = 0xFFFE ?
< 1567718718 465939 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :something weird is going on
< 1567718849 981031 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567718978 117608 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :0xFFFF AND 0xFFFF = 0xFFFE, 0xFFFE AND 0xFFFF = 0xFFFC ? where's the bug? I demand you show me, codeblocks
< 1567719022 693010 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan
< 1567719248 775688 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed operation M
< 1567719425 140957 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :and L
< 1567719574 231643 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's two letters down
< 1567719790 434146 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1567719832 819676 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was shifting the output to the left by 1 too much
< 1567720037 245793 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :updated Echidna's documentation file
< 1567720164 946637 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a self-hosted pdf on the Echidna page. Not ready to be public domain.
< 1567720844 132933 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought about morphism composition notations and about (more or less natural) notations for application of a linear operator or its adjoint to a (co)vector and found out I think a very funny thing
< 1567721019 927717 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose A: U → V, B: V → W, v ∈ U, f ∈ W*, then if we agree to write Av for the application of A to v, it’s for a couple of reasons (regarding left and right modules, and also matrix notation) natural to write fB* for the application of B* to f. Now,
< 1567721142 568130 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can end with * altogether (we have a type system to back us!) and write fB. Then we can write fBAv, for example. And now notice that BA here can denote both B <<< A and B* >>> A*
< 1567721165 199602 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is fun
< 1567721338 742617 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not here, but standalone also. But invoking fBAv beforehand could appeal for this notation choice
< 1567721385 996694 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it reminds me of lenses now, and not without a reason)
< 1567721398 974482 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye I hope this was interesting
> 1567721518 897384 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Echidna14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65988&oldid=65979 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+137) 10adding a link for an interpreter.
< 1567721612 481059 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :can someone look at what i linked about echidna and help me figure out what kind of esolang it is?
< 1567721648 183271 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to have a description on there at least.
< 1567721692 910424 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567721701 259442 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like an assembly language to me
< 1567721702 862085 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523
< 1567721709 903758 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1567721860 212391 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1567721952 989602 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :
> 1567722202 384183 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Echidna14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65989&oldid=65988 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+106) 10a little description
< 1567724468 72729 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: so are the comparison, divide, modulus and shift right arithmetic instruction unsigned ones, and is there no signed less than instruction?
< 1567724507 877744 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: and are those bitwise instructions the only way to do an indirect load (as opposed to an indirect store, for which you have a specific instruction)? that will lead to a lot of use of those bitwise thingies with redundant arguments I think
< 1567724562 932878 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems a bit odd that indirect load works that way, but you seem to allow immediate operands basically everywhere
< 1567724568 950229 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a strange instruction set
< 1567724569 397899 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: you just reminded me of the "load data by rotating it ten times" trick that's sometimes used in Malbolge
< 1567724718 205844 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: also I find the spec a bit hard to read and unclear, but it's not as bad as some of the things we see on the wiki
< 1567724718 457437 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Did you go to the thing?
< 1567724737 67838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what thing?
< 1567724752 464206 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://events.cs.bham.ac.uk/syco/strings3-syco5/
< 1567724762 908314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1567724776 948971 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not all that interested in string diagrams
< 1567724781 362680 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1567724785 109667 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm fairly busy with other things at work
< 1567724795 962438 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, what about compositional structures?
< 1567724798 709885 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway that makes sense.
< 1567724801 919422 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been known to go to locally hosted conferences that I'm only tangentially interested in, but not this time
< 1567724932 122966 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only went to locally hosted conferences where I was actually at least somewhat interested in the topic at the time, but of course within conferences I listened to talks in which I'm not too interested, if there isn't a better talk available in another track,
< 1567724960 627850 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I definitely went to PhD dissertations where I wasn't interested in the topic, because those are social events for meeting friends and the thesis topic doesn't matter
< 1567725180 306012 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PhD defences/vivas aren't public in the UK (I know this differs between countries)
< 1567725185 747922 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just the candidate and the examiners
< 1567725190 311021 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the...
< 1567725192 250956 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's odd
< 1567725200 839078 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're always public here, they have to be
< 1567725210 362531 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they'd be hard to watch because the examiners are supposed to have learned everything from the PhD thesis already
< 1567725219 893844 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I think there may be closed ones if they're like connected to classified military stuff
< 1567725226 740075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they jump straight into asking technical questions about it, there'd basically be no context for anyone else
< 1567725290 55923 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is there a formal celebration open to public after, or do the graduates skip right to the pub run?
< 1567725295 797888 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see the argument in wanting the candidate to give a presentation on the topic of their PhD and defend that, I guess it comes down to whether it's more important to defend the principle or the details
< 1567725324 917004 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't get the verdict right away, it comes by post a few weeks later after the examiners have discussed, and is normally several pages full of things they're concerned about and want correcting
< 1567725345 589262 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you make the corrections and resubmit
< 1567725364 473463 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, there is a closed part within the public defense, namely the part after all the questions when the committee discuss their decision, and for that part everyone else is ordered out of the room
< 1567725371 572798 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when they're finally happy you get told you're accepted, and then there are mass graduation ceremonies you can go to if you want a big official celebration
< 1567725376 618121 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I describe this in a comment, let me find the link
< 1567725392 628401 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the UK method is pretty good at avoiding, say, fallacious proofs
< 1567725406 589178 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if it's unclear how much effort they'll take to fiix
< 1567725461 711682 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the UK still do snake fights?
< 1567725513 578493 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of the UK, I'm a bit confusil about what's going on with parliament nowadays.
< 1567725520 291219 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea; I have a suspicion they'd be illegal, which doesn't mean they wouldn't happen but does mean I'd be unlikely to be aware of them if they did
< 1567725520 552277 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :found it: http://www.madore.org/cgi-bin/comment.pl/showcomments?href=http%3a%2f%2fwww.madore.org%2f~david%2fweblog%2f2015-12.html%23d.2015-12-05.2340#comment-22088
< 1567725552 665397 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean mandatory snake fights after your thesis defense.
< 1567725561 678746 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't have one of those
< 1567725563 208825 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so probably not?
< 1567725577 295885 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google snake fight thesis defense
< 1567725578 74770 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/faq-the-snake-fight-portion-of-your-thesis-defense
< 1567725609 626007 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: members of the committee get the thesis well in advance, suppoedly read it and understand it, and even send questions to the candidate at least a few days before the defense,
< 1567725629 755003 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for what's going on in parliament, right now nothing, Commons won't be back until Monday, Lords are asleep but will probably be approving the EUWA #6 tomorrow (they agreed to meet on Friday, which they normally don't, to get enough time to approve it)
< 1567725654 274485 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's happened over the past couple of days is more interesting
< 1567725690 244561 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: about the parliament, I think because of conflicting promises, they have to sarifice two or three prime ministers every year, so that they can remain in the EU but have someone take the blame for the government not keeping their promise of exiting the EU
< 1567725690 628501 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically there's a new prime minister (because the old prime minister resigned, the new prime minister is appointed by the same party that the old one came from)
< 1567725739 469052 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand the prime minister part, what I don't understand is in what way the queen was involved
< 1567725749 820477 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1567725762 805825 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567725766 14092 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: we don't have mandatory snake fights for PhD defenses here either
< 1567725780 408132 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Odd. Maybe it's an American tradition.
< 1567725782 386692 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is some concern among MPs that he will attempt to leave the EU with no agreements in place, which became much greater when he announced that parliament would be prorogued (basically shut down) until mid-October, when there might not be time to agree on a course of action
< 1567725842 527046 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Finnish thesis defence has a /lectio præcursoria/ in the front, and IIRC it's typically the only part done in Finnish (because normally the opponents are from abroad, and the thesis is in English) and I think it's mostly there so that the candidate's family has something for them as well.
< 1567725843 705053 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's possible that some people fight snakes, because the less formal part of the celebration afterwards usually involves heavy drinking, but I'm quite sure it's not mandatory
< 1567725861 602867 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the snake fight is not mandatory that is, the heavy drinking is
< 1567725899 332393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a while ago, because some of the Prime Minster's competitors in the (Conservative Party-internal) leadership debate had threatened to shut down parliament to prevent them interfering with Conservative plans for Brexit, a Northern Ireland-related bill got amended to force regular updates in Parliament on the situation in Northern Ireland, purely for the side effect of forcing Parliament to be open whilst not being offtopic
< 1567725909 667842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why Parliament can't be shut down until beyond mid-October
< 1567725958 671947 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I went to one thesis examination while in Leuven for a while, and all the questioning part was in Flemish, which made it a little hard to follow for me.
< 1567725964 804547 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the prorogation doesn't start until next week, and there's a clear majority among Members of Parliament (and Members of the House of Lords) that we shouldn't leave the EU without an agreement in place as to how it's done
< 1567725973 864390 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hmm, that FAQ says it can involve both venomous snakes and snakes with physical attacks
< 1567726023 886314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they've been trying to rush through an emergency law to prevent it happening (known the European Union (Withrdawal) Act No. 6), and the Government (i.e. the Prime Minister + allies) have been trying to stop them
< 1567726093 108562 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that sufficiently many MPs in the Conservative Party, together with almost all the MPs outside, disagree with the Prime Minister; this lead to some (~20) Conservatives voting against party line in order to get the EUWA #6 through, despite the Prime Minister threatening to throw them out of the party
< 1567726100 334808 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did the conservative party kick out all the people who voted against the act?
< 1567726118 441778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes! and as a result they no longer have a majority, i.e. they have less than half of the MPs even if you count allies
< 1567726120 850834 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: would this be a normal summer break of the parliament, or a special break?
< 1567726130 697232 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :We had a "Brexit info" email at work for all UK employees today. The email just said the situation is "fluid" and that there's nothing new to report.
< 1567726134 803881 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: we just had our normal summer break (it ended on Tuesday)
< 1567726144 161812 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, I understood they lost their majority but I wasn't sure whether they'd left themselves or were kicked out.
< 1567726150 987329 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's normally a small break over October, this is theoretically that break but it's been made way longer
< 1567726163 353309 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they lost the majority even before the rebel alliance got kicked out?
< 1567726166 265877 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: one left of their own accord, the others were kcked out
< 1567726171 333348 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know one person joined the liberal democrats but the rest (including the father of the house?) are now just independent?
< 1567726172 15642 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of that one defection, right.
< 1567726188 640805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest are independent unless or until they join a party or form a new party
< 1567726219 914993 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I think many of them are planning to be independent until the next election and then leave politics (some want to stay but may have problems being elected with the Conservatives running against them)
< 1567726227 639597 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if the party kicks out their members, then don't they get replaced by other people on the party's list?
< 1567726236 400438 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: no, we elect MPs not parties
< 1567726239 542372 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for parliament seats that is
< 1567726242 313808 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1567726254 143715 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :getting rid of an MP is almost impossible, there are only two ways
< 1567726292 924703 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange
< 1567726301 949367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a) if the MP is convicted of a sufficiently serious crime, then a petition of 10% of their constituents can force a new election (but they can run for the election if they want to; so far this has proven to be a bad idea but it hasn't stopped some MPs trying)
< 1567726321 422077 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b) MPs automatically get fired if they accept money from the Queen
< 1567726342 803478 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't there also a new MP if the old one dies?
< 1567726354 745727 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, yes, but I wouldn't recommend killing MPs
< 1567726370 466224 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't have to be killed
< 1567726371 319502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :point b) here is mostly used as a loophole for MPs to voluntarily step down, because they aren't legally allowed to resign; the Queen maintains a couple of useless jobs purely for the purpose of hiring MPs that want to resign
< 1567726372 945780 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can die otherwise
< 1567726414 109694 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of them is a job hunting down outlaws in the Chiltern Hills, which became irrelevant ages ago because a) we have police and b) outlaws don't really exist as a concept any more
< 1567726420 372761 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's vacant execept when an MP needs to resign
< 1567726431 84306 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not theoretical, because Antall József died while he was minister-president, and got replaced by a different minister-president because he died
< 1567726446 914206 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh man. That's pretty good.
< 1567726456 94153 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe
< 1567726459 797942 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's indeed nice
< 1567726470 302116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the Commons passed through all the stages of the EUWA #6 in a single day, so now the Lords have to confirm it
< 1567726471 350622 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, we have had positions just to pay people, without a real job
< 1567726507 658626 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was an attempted filibuster but the Lords have a huge majority against the Prime Minister's position, so the filibusterers gave up at about 1:30am
< 1567726522 670000 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They submitted 100 amedments to the bill, right?
< 1567726537 727523 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the opposition Lords were taking it seriously, though; they had a rota set up, and brought lots of food, sleeping bags, etc. to the House of Lords to make sure they could outlast their much smaller number of political opponents)
< 1567726539 76960 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1567726542 942550 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sl a
< 1567726545 850766 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did they give up on them?
< 1567726555 299835 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*so an amendment can be dealt with in a few seconds if there's no real support or no real opposition to it
< 1567726572 24372 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :show of hands or voice vote, move on
< 1567726587 904207 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"opposition lords" means opposed to the majority in the house of lords, or opposed to the government?
< 1567726589 203846 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for a filibuster to work, you need sufficiently many Lords on your side that the verdict is unclear
< 1567726596 27934 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: opposed to the government
< 1567726602 826238 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you don't elect parties, then how are the members of the parliament chosen?
< 1567726626 18270 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the lower house at least
< 1567726639 311990 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the funny thing is, the Lords have a built in Conservative majority because they move so slowly, but (because they move slowly and the Conservatives have changed position rapidly recently) the Conservatives in the Lords are mostly opposed to the Prime Minister
< 1567726655 349975 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of bizarre that filibusters are still a thing that nominally works, rather than being treated as bad faith.
< 1567726661 919113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: basically we get a list of candidates for each constituency; if you're standing for a party that's listed on the ballot for information
< 1567726710 214683 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and delegates from constituencies fill all places in the lower chamber?
< 1567726723 271208 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the UK version works fairly well I think? a) it only works in the Lords, not the Commons, and the Lords can't block a bill indefinitely, only delay it; b) it lets a really determined minority delay a bill for a while but you have to keep talking / keep voting / etc. so if the minority is too small you won't have the stamina, and if they aren't committed enough they won't bother
< 1567726745 898843 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the smaller the minority filibustering, the less effort it'll take from the majority to break the filibuster, as their anti-filibuster rota will be easy to set up)
< 1567726752 986028 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: right
< 1567726776 434443 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think the US has some such system too
< 1567726786 656094 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they have states, so it makes more sense
< 1567726842 770533 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the US senate it seems that people are slowly changing the rules to get rid of filibusters in various contexts.
< 1567726853 440073 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the filibuster in this circumstance was pretty unique as the Lords need to get the EUWA #6 through before Parliament gets prorogued, which could happen on Monday (the prorogation order was vague as to the exact date, but it's some time next week)
< 1567726885 539985 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't the prorogation get delayed while people are actively filibustering?
< 1567726915 265422 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect the US congress is more pathological than the UK system.
< 1567726920 943152 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they can keep up for that long, that is, which isn't easy
< 1567726933 166332 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the pro-Government minority would only have to last a few days, but a) they were too small and b) they may have stopped due to optics (also, possibly there was a deal brokered between the two sides, but IIRC people are denying it)
< 1567726940 639540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: no, the date's absolute
< 1567726959 377347 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1567726965 492365 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's nominally done by the monarch anyway, right?
< 1567726977 81899 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, but she has to follow the advice of the Prime Minister
< 1567727011 763684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well, "has to"; it's unlikely that the monarchy would dare break that particular convention, but laws don't technically apply to them, so in theory the Queen could do pretty much any thing
< 1567727069 280461 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of funny how Borris (our local nickname) says the prorogation has nothing to do with Brexit, and how there's plenty of time to talk about Brexit when it's over.
< 1567727086 235328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"plenty of time" = about 2 weeks
< 1567727094 346718 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't enough to implement most suggested solutions
< 1567727100 366121 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. 2 weeks isn't enough time to hold an election
< 1567727173 506726 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(shachaf: on the subject of elections, the prime minister attempted to call one after losing the EUWA #6 vote, but didn't have the votes even to do that; the opposition want to get EUWA #6 through first before calling an election, due to potential issues like using the election to dissolve Parliament for the /rest/ of the time before October 31…)
< 1567727212 488602 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is calling general elections common?
< 1567727246 946205 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's odd
< 1567727289 75747 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used to be that the prime minister could call elections unilaterally, and would do so when they thought they had the best chance of their party being re-elected / gaining a larger majority
< 1567727327 899067 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :electing a prime minister directly seems such an odd thing to do, exactly because it can get you into these strange situations where their government can't function because they don't have the support of the parliament
< 1567727329 505129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then the Liberal Democrat / Conservative coalition government happened, and the Liberal Democrats were concerned that the Conservatives would just call an election as soon as they thought they could get rid of the Lib Dems
< 1567727370 811056 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so as part of the "price" for the coalition, the Lib Dems passed a law that made it almost impossible to call an election unless a) everyone agreed on it or b) the Prime Minister lost their majority
< 1567727414 198801 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, b) has actually happened, but the opposition are delaying the official no-confidence vote (that tests if a majority exists) until after EUWA #6 goes through
< 1567727422 839256 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1567727429 182240 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, it makes more sense that way
< 1567727453 832799 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so everyone knows that the Prime Minister has lost their majority but it hasn't officially been tested, so they're still notionally in charge for the time being
< 1567727469 463318 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's also why they need the filibuster?
< 1567727493 918766 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the filibuster was an attempt to prevent EUWA #6 passing, but it's already failed
< 1567727504 395861 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so EUWA #6 is quite likely to pass some time tomorrow
< 1567727516 522616 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also odd: this one/two/three-line whip thing, which apparently is the number of times the instruction is underlined.
< 1567727530 284744 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1567727536 816797 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also zero, but that's equivalent to not whipping at all
< 1567727537 525553 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've got a charmingly quaint parliamentary system.
< 1567727574 709399 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual numbers of lines aren't really defined
< 1567727576 547799 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Probably that's what happens when you've had one so long.)
< 1567727603 381181 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conservative MPs ignored three-line whips under Theresa May quite frequently and nothing happened to them, probably because she'd lost control of the party (and ended up having to resign)
< 1567727649 313662 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, in Boris Johnson's first vote, he threatened to expel anyone from the party who voted against it, and then actually did, but given the numbers he's probably /also/ lost control of (a different subset of) the party
< 1567727746 770895 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so have the leaders of those who were expelled from the party started three new parties, each of them claiming to be the one true successor to the conservative party, which has lost its, uh, approval of the people or whatever fancy phrase they use
< 1567727761 170080 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's how parties tend to die here
< 1567727800 362342 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there was a party of breakaway MPs (and technically still is), who have changed their name at least twice since and have lost many MPs
< 1567727804 804384 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not doing too well
< 1567727821 747761 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's how Orbán got his continued rule basically, because every other significant party fell apart that way
< 1567727825 433529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the people expelled from the Conservatives recently are mostly still independents, but that's not surprising given how recent it was
< 1567727853 141007 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :might take some more months I guess
< 1567727874 408814 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :several MPs who have defected from Conservatives or Labour over Brexit have since joined the LIberal Democrats (traditional third party; the Scottish National Party are larger but don't get any real support outside Scotland)
< 1567727894 608039 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see
< 1567727902 655453 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also calling back to the thesis discussion, in Finland actually the bit that keeps things free of errors and the quality bar high enough is the "preliminary examination", which is done offline, takes some weeks, and all but guarantees that everyone who gets to the public examination stage will pass it.
< 1567727924 456574 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is there a mandatory fight with a snake?
< 1567727938 55073 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: right, the preliminary examination stage is basically the entire thing for us
< 1567727976 406220 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that after it, the corrections period can be very long (the length depends on how many corrections there are and how large they are, but is normally 3 or 6 months if the thesis is well-received, more if it has major problems)
< 1567727981 491787 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: No, Finland isn't that known for snakes. We've got just that one poisonous one.
< 1567728000 125964 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: do they fight some other animal then?
< 1567728144 939212 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. For us, the preliminary examination result is a statement that either you can defend as-is (pretty rare), requires minor revisions (most common; something you can do in a few weeks and doesn't need a full recheck) or requires major revisions (expected to take months, needs to be resubmitted for a full re-examination).
< 1567728169 977770 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, pretty similar as how journal paper reviews go.
< 1567728183 273673 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one is fun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiyz1IYEFtI marathon speedrun of a Game Boy Advance game, the problem being that the game requires motion controls, but on that console, recording the video output and motion controls are hard to do at the same time
< 1567728310 329300 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: here it's anywhere from "no corrections" (never happens in practice), "minor corrections" (3 months, a very common result, it's what my PhD had), "major corrections" (6 months, situations where the corrections may require new maths), "resubmit" (1 year, it means serious problems with the original but they'll give you another chance), equivalents of all those for a lesser degree ("this isn't PhD-worthy but it is worth a Masters' degree"), and
< 1567728311 800053 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :outright rejection
< 1567728424 579874 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :How commonly do PhD candidates not already have a Masters' degree?
< 1567728430 929113 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there one for greater degrees too, where the thesis is so impressed they decided that the candidate is chosen to become dictator for life on the spot?
< 1567728448 945879 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'd guess ones who come from the US might not have one
< 1567728456 34216 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :their system is weird
< 1567728482 191382 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well there's nothing preventing you getting /two/ Masters' degrees, although that might not be a preferred outcome
< 1567728517 892564 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but here too a master's degree is technically not a requirement for the thesis, you only need it in practice because that's the only way you can get a scholarship that lets you do research and study to be able to write a thesis
< 1567728532 933678 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Transportation for life, and then to be fined forty pound.
< 1567728560 294609 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure, but they can't just award a master's degree, right? they can only award the thesis part, while the candidate would need to satisfy all the other requirements too
< 1567728578 347252 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Masters by research" is a recognised qualification, that can be done off just a single thesis
< 1567728590 436031 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, should I go to graduate school?
< 1567728596 504182 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a PhD thesis would in theory qualify for it but normally you'd want the PhD instead
< 1567728609 787205 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: where are you? the US? probably not, you're highly likely to be overcharged
< 1567728626 711374 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: https://www.xkcd.com/498/
< 1567728664 730800 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: do you have a masters?
< 1567728686 19040 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd was pretty different back then
< 1567728697 128623 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm in the US but presumably I could go anywhere.
< 1567728704 868818 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I don't.
< 1567728712 498389 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: would you like to get a job for which a PhD degree is a strong advantage, which are mostly jobs at a university or at state-sponsored research institutes?
< 1567728735 319984 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know.
< 1567728759 340779 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes. I recommend reading SMBC, which is still similar to what xkcd used to be like in its classic era
< 1567728763 232322 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another fact is that I don't have a bachelor's degree.
< 1567728776 495871 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :only more colorful
< 1567728812 909372 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that part is easier to fix
< 1567728818 441152 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
< 1567728827 43361 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it?
< 1567728837 989407 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's easier to get a bachelors degree than a masters degree
< 1567728859 146881 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I don't really like old xkcd; I don't normally like new xkcd either but sometimes it's very good
< 1567728876 431124 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: which of the new ones do you like?
< 1567728930 928275 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one before the current one was fairly good
< 1567728938 506787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's one that's slightly older that was better but I can't remember which one
< 1567728959 690092 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Game Show? dunno, I don't much like that one
< 1567728976 999146 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, https://xkcd.com/2189/ is very good
< 1567728990 493257 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd is mostly observational humour, so I mostly enjoy it when the observation is interesting / thought-provoking
< 1567729008 323545 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not my style either, but ok
< 1567729020 379575 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :2189 that is
< 1567729028 635425 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :observational humor may be fine
< 1567729035 315266 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, the set of xkcds we like is possibly disjoint
< 1567729040 60368 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that that's necessarily a problem
< 1567729060 278366 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't claim that all the new ones are bad, I just prefer the classic ones in average
< 1567729075 54224 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still do look at every new xkcd, I haven't stopped looking
< 1567729087 200113 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but prefer other comics now
< 1567729098 831611 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, part of that is other comics having become better
< 1567729142 262371 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Dennis Skinner everyone's favorite MP?
< 1567729164 430937 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's quite some variety in favourite MPs
< 1567729176 826893 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :many people's favourite MP is the one representing their own constituency, of course
< 1567729188 569658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are quite a lot of interesting personalities in the House of Commons
< 1567729195 80610 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :eww no way
< 1567729205 409487 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still vote for the part of the city that has ruined the city park
< 1567729223 836011 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's where I spent all my childhood, and now it pains me any time I go there
< 1567729250 547237 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can't feel patriotic to my election district
< 1567729266 617512 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably Lord Buckethead is everyone's favowrite Lord.
< 1567729325 270269 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternately, it wasn't them who ruined it, because local governments don't have any power anymore, everything is done centrally, in which case there's no point being patriotic to any district government
< 1567729387 394762 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lord Buckethead isn't actually a Lord (if he were, he wouldn't be able to run for the Commons)
< 1567729397 622551 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, he isn't the same Lord Buckethead that became famous, there was an IP dispute
< 1567729406 220227 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's hard to tell that the person beneath the bucket has changed, though)
< 1567729434 769833 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's why only very few independents get into the parliament, people vote to support a party in the parliament rather than to support a person supposedly representing their district
< 1567729462 81216 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we normally get maybe 1 or 2 independents elected per election cycle in the UK
< 1567729486 287837 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's difficult to win as an independent because you don't have a party's advertising / canvassing might behind you
< 1567729502 736251 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and because FPTP discourages voting for people who have little chance of winning
< 1567729525 167247 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if an independent is considered a serious candidate in a constituency, they may well end up winning if people dislike their main competitors
< 1567729635 802910 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Until recently I thought most Lords in the House of Lords were hereditary.
< 1567729637 904736 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what? there's a member of the parliament with a bucket on their head? but isn't that impossible because of https://stickman.qntm.org/comics.php?n=622 ?
< 1567729660 496683 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But apparently that's only a small fraction of them.
< 1567729673 41720 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rest are appointed, but it's not clear to me exactly how the appointment works.
< 1567729677 185352 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly, just one or two independets at any time
< 1567729677 272193 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: no, Lord Buckethead is a persistent /candidate/ to be an MP but has never won
< 1567729683 387027 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor come remotely close to winning
< 1567729694 591123 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's only one right now
< 1567729699 686376 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes it's by the Prime Minister, but sometimes by a committee?
< 1567729714 984793 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And appointments are for life. Should I think of it like US Supreme Court appointments?
< 1567729735 156028 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so they'd remove the bucket if they became an MP?
< 1567729744 866631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :think of it like life appointments to a really big advisory body that parliament calls on, that's what the Lords basically are at this point
< 1567729753 592129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: either that, or immediately resign
< 1567729772 988697 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, that can work too
< 1567729790 763636 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the normal life-cycle of a law has the Commons design it and the Lords work out the details (and/or say "are you sure?"); the Lords can't block a bill but can delay it
< 1567729827 520747 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the non-serious party here was once asked what they'd do if they gained majority in the parliament (they never had anything near the chance for that), and whoever they asked said that they'd resign and call for a new election
< 1567729840 905019 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the House of Lords is much weaker than e.g. the US Senate nowadays.
< 1567729843 950219 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the Lords are a combination of hereditary peers which are families that have been Lording for generations (advantage: people can be educated specifically for the position; disadvantage: somewhat undemocratic), former MPs, and business/scientific leaders
< 1567729847 840111 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Despite being called an "upper house".
< 1567729854 889662 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that wasn't the case in the past.
< 1567729883 632791 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Lords used to be equal to the Commons, but there was a constitutional crisis in the early 20th century which lead to the commons being given an override
< 1567729975 585656 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently bishops have priority over other humans in the House of Lords? What a scam.
< 1567729989 986442 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for budgets, the override triggers automatically after 1 month if agreement hasn't been reached; for anything else, the Commons need to attempt to pass the same law twice a year apart and then intentionally trigger it)
< 1567730021 812836 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :being able to delay bills by a year is fairly powerful and gives the Commons lots of tiime to reconsider, but means that the Lords have no final say on almost anything
< 1567730037 318514 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't think "upper" means it should be stronger. it means the same as "Lords", that is, representing the upper classes of society
< 1567730037 804654 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, MP terms are normally 5 years?
< 1567730053 81423 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the exception: any attempt to increase the length of time between elections to more than 5 years needs to be approved by both the Commons and Lords, no override available)
< 1567730055 964412 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: right
< 1567730110 848312 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I don't think "upper" means that it's stronger in any case.
< 1567730125 97354 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does in cards
< 1567730144 912916 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's representing a single person, not a whole house
< 1567730158 161688 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, as much as cards represent people
< 1567730166 597154 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're abstract stuff decorated with people
< 1567730169 953532 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the funny thing is, one of the only times the override was actually used was to change the time limit on using the override from two years to one year
< 1567730188 242286 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1567730197 34827 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, not a time limit, it's the opposite of a limit
< 1567730230 955952 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :reasonable, that's the sort of topic that they're definitely familiar with so qualified to make rules about
< 1567730883 905068 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xkcjpdwjpkgizdmq QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1567733183 260678 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit
< 1567738982 353913 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: hi
< 1567739143 392972 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yeah, the spec was originally designed for my personal reference
< 1567739181 749531 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll have to clarify a lot of stuff before it is ready for the wiki
< 1567739341 941747 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :ready for the wiki as in directly explaining it on the wiki page
< 1567739442 397686 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :current thing is modifying the subroutine code to make it easier to reuse them
< 1567739480 339205 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's { N , & , -- }
< 1567739501 334302 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :those commands are affected
> 1567740505 145397 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Super Stack14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=65990 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (+26) 10Redirected page to [[Super Stack!]]
< 1567743122 322122 :rodgort!~rodgort@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1567743377 671178 :rodgort!~rodgort@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
> 1567746173 836799 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Echidna14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65991&oldid=65989 5* 03Lykaina 5* (-3) 10updating with newest interpreter link.
> 1567746623 426343 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Echidna14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65992&oldid=65991 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+22) 10doing a little formatting.
< 1567751264 176314 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://kickjava.com/src/com/sun/java/swing/plaf/nimbus/InternalFrameInternalFrameTitlePaneInternalFrameTitlePaneMaximizeButtonWindowNotFocusedState.java.htm
< 1567751299 337881 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this autogenerated code?
< 1567752011 115810 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows, man
< 1567752296 604390 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: My friend is very irritated at everything about this post: https://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/394399/managing-and-organizing-the-massively-increased-number-of-classes-after-switchin
< 1567752380 957567 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1567754214 379354 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Peti345 5* 10New user account
< 1567754461 572900 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah great, another company that buys into design patterns and best practices instead of just writing reasonable code
< 1567754491 787312 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though on the plus side, they are writing tests
< 1567754540 773891 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567755468 672572 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net PART :#esoteric
< 1567755586 511707 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving
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< 1567757932 641343 :nfd!~nfd9001@2601:602:8500:2443:7892:d6f0:ebf2:9c81 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567758131 767381 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1567759007 743031 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567759275 408391 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (foldl (flip (.)) id [\x -> x+1, \x -> x*2, \x -> x*x]) 4
< 1567759277 528356 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 100
< 1567759285 225991 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(appEndo $ getDual $ mconcat $ map (Dual . Endo) [\x -> x+1, \x -> x*2, \x -> x*x]) 4
< 1567759295 331426 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (appEndo $ getDual $ mconcat $ map (Dual . Endo) [\x -> x+1, \x -> x*2, \x -> x*x]) 4
< 1567759297 713080 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 100
< 1567759352 428027 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mumbles something about a monoid at an informal gathering of endofunctions
< 1567759429 613356 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote appendo
< 1567759430 51367 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :quicksilver says: 'appEndo' sounds like a harry potter spell
< 1567759431 772381 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote appendo
< 1567759432 130698 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :hpc says: appEndo sounds like a harry potter spell
< 1567759439 465372 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1567759443 129216 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :suspicious
< 1567759479 713738 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr ($) 4 [\x -> x+1, \x -> x*2, \x -> x*x]
< 1567759482 360343 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 33
< 1567759497 780697 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567759499 562980 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :appendo sounds like it would be an introductory minikanren example
< 1567759501 283093 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldl (&) 4 [\x -> x+1, \x -> x*2, \x -> x*x]
< 1567759504 590009 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 100
< 1567759678 735334 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1567759683 785828 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1567759690 126872 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only because of the video game that has a "flippendo" spell, it doesn't sound like a book-canon spell name
< 1567759771 382906 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That wasn't the quote I was looking for anyway.
< 1567761183 95108 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle &
< 1567761183 572382 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Function (&) :: a -> (a -> b) -> b
< 1567761183 572433 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Lens.Lens (&) :: () => a -> (a -> b) -> b
< 1567761183 609118 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Lens.Operators (&) :: () => a -> (a -> b) -> b
< 1567762043 575065 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently python regexes *almost* the same syntax as perl regexen. there's one important difference, but that one is among the most frequent things I write in a regex:
< 1567762055 229760 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl's /\z/ corresponds to python's r"\Z"
< 1567762070 420644 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no
< 1567762074 882807 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily if I mess it up, r"\z" gives an unconditional error
< 1567762086 428475 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't think I ever want to write perl's \Z specifically
< 1567762094 449608 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least never without thinking a lot
< 1567762217 125495 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other incompatibility is making named capture groups
< 1567762245 922935 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's possible that some of these differences come from ancient historical reasons of course, because python has old roots and evolved parallel to perl
< 1567762806 108171 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567762943 410979 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator QUIT :Quit: Blame iczero something happened
< 1567762962 994125 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567762972 509970 :nfd!~nfd9001@2601:602:8500:2443:7892:d6f0:ebf2:9c81 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1567763674 64894 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah, I almost forgot this one! in windows, you need to add an extra double quote at the start of the command for the libc system function to work
< 1567764620 98661 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567764627 909444 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any examples of using one language's package system to distribute packages for some other language?
< 1567764661 460111 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, the idea of "a language's package system" is so bad in the first place.
< 1567764671 569500 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know right?
< 1567764704 182051 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time to give up on all software.
< 1567764752 199343 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1567765702 238962 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567766216 302538 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567766298 878279 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: good. so when do we start the rebelion to destroy all thinking machines?
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< 1567769197 94420 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1567774795 103799 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat QUIT :Quit: leaving
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< 1567780874 150206 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net PART :#esoteric
> 1567784482 203869 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Echidna14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65993&oldid=65992 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+0) 10updating with newest interpreter link.
> 1567784847 361110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Binary to unary conversion14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65994&oldid=65982 5* 03CarlosLuna 5* (+399) 10Adding an Unary to binary (arbitrary precision) conversion algorithm
> 1567785046 217808 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Drawkcab14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65995&oldid=53052 5* 03Gamer 5* (+82) 10
> 1567785079 198433 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Drawkcab14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65996&oldid=65995 5* 03Gamer 5* (+0) 10
> 1567785465 8057 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Drawkcab14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65997&oldid=65996 5* 03Gamer 5* (+59) 10
> 1567785547 165535 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Drawkcab14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65998&oldid=65997 5* 03Gamer 5* (+20) 10
< 1567786398 682366 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: http://hackage.haskell.org/package/MonadPrompt-1.0.0.5/docs/Control-Monad-Prompt.html is making my brain hurt. Do you still have the solitaire game example? http://int-e.home.tlink.de/haskell/solitaire.tar.gz is broken.
< 1567786446 237399 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://paste.lisp.org/display/53766 is also broken
> 1567786493 912400 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Drawkcab14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65999&oldid=65998 5* 03Gamer 5* (+284) 10/* Examples */
> 1567786508 810326 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Drawkcab14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66000&oldid=65999 5* 03Gamer 5* (+6) 10/* drawkcaB 3 nohtyP */
> 1567786527 768437 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Drawkcab14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66001&oldid=66000 5* 03Gamer 5* (+8) 10/* drawkcaB ++C */
< 1567786534 749433 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: good question
> 1567786570 169474 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Drawkcab14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66002&oldid=66001 5* 03Gamer 5* (+0) 10/* Concept */
< 1567786640 684950 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No hurry, it will probably take me several weeks to wrap my head around this
< 1567786720 441639 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/haskell/solitaire.tar.gz in full bit-rotted glory... (February 2008)
< 1567786748 368774 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: awesome, thank you very much
< 1567786857 904852 :Camto[m]!camtomatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-jcbjzllunqebinmp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1567786871 210596 :ivzem[m]!ivzemmatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-kgbvsicjgmioiwgs QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1567786871 384767 :xylochoron[m]!xylochoron@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ucebfsfbbespuavj QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1567786881 584403 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fgtdkxmnxqffajyg QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1567786882 826710 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-idmcbvpovfbwuywt QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1567787203 861341 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 QUIT :Quit: A la prochaine.
< 1567787565 609211 :Camto[m]!camtomatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-qumwdridzklutixt JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567787657 170176 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell cpressey that was actually pretty painless to fix: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/haskell/solitaire-0.0.0.tar.gz
< 1567787657 249579 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
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< 1567789067 548026 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567789491 19767 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567790804 828209 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :my hon. and learned friend fungot, what color of raisins do you prefer?
< 1567790804 905725 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: pick me, pick me!
< 1567790818 841299 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I pick you
< 1567790819 8980 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: i'm a teenage male interested in programming who recently found out about it is hurting?
< 1567790827 709068 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um
< 1567790893 869316 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dizpfkunuzwlbkyq QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1567791177 899178 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style
< 1567791177 985519 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp ukparl youtube
< 1567791207 51976 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought so, but where did fungot pick up such language...
< 1567791207 432416 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i don't remember henna facepaint in wizard of earthsea.) define a macro in a standard latex command. well, the problem i'm having is at fnord
< 1567791253 622604 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: tbf you started with a trick question
< 1567791309 733039 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Oh, when you address fungot as "my hon. and learned friend", that means you and fungot are both MPs, and fungot is also a lawyer, but not a member of the Privy Council. Is that right?
< 1567791310 241643 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: catfive. better tack on the nationality and ethnicity in there as it is
< 1567792544 262110 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567792722 462882 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1567794751 985555 :tromp_!~tromp@ip-213-127-58-74.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1567795430 425460 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? mothology
< 1567795431 794877 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mothology is the study of moths, myths, mouths, and mirths.
< 1567795455 825158 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? mythology
< 1567795457 263118 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mythology is the study of myths, moths and mirths.
< 1567795458 892371 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? myth
< 1567795460 146345 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A myth is a female moth.
< 1567795479 131213 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? mother
< 1567795480 306190 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? moth
< 1567795480 377578 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A mother is a person who practices mothology.
< 1567795481 613104 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moths are the main ingredient of mothballs.
< 1567795487 586597 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? method
< 1567795489 59440 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A method is a tweaked out mothod.
< 1567795514 883904 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? month
< 1567795516 158170 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Month is a misspelled Moth.
< 1567795522 44207 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't realize there were so many of these
< 1567795598 564734 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? mouth
< 1567795599 699308 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mouth? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1567795608 210168 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A British moth?
< 1567795620 219322 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? mirth
< 1567795621 446879 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mirths are juvenile moths. They giggle a lot.
< 1567795805 646487 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: https://esolangs.org/logs/2007-07-03.html#lcl + #scheme What about it is hurting?
< 1567795869 201466 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus I think most likely some other sentence containing at least the fragment "-- out about it --"
< 1567797231 519782 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:1943:d2a7:aeba:5324 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567798580 142875 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? math
< 1567798581 815208 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :math? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1567798630 708731 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :that’s reassuring
< 1567798665 948352 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? mint
< 1567798667 166777 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mint? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1567798701 414777 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567798774 347438 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, do you like lossy compression of music?
< 1567798774 618018 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: unless you need faster code. and given ironically ( or mockingly... i'm unsure) but thanks :)
< 1567798805 918525 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: and what about lossless one?
< 1567798806 78092 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: forces statement to be fnord
< 1567798810 82131 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do like lossy compression of music
< 1567798917 530881 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: how much losses you can stand?
< 1567798934 888576 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: five
< 1567799090 173803 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’m suspicious some people who were or are encoding music in mp3 don’t know how to do it good or do have a bad codec (is it a thing at all?), as then resulting file has a reasonable bitrate over 128 kbps or even over ~200 kbps but I hear artifacts
< 1567799104 192155 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I do know how to do it
< 1567799110 222663 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I even have my notes about which switches to give
< 1567799137 783956 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit complicated because the software changed over the years, plus these days I can finally encode music to ogg instead of mp3
< 1567799157 479608 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the five is real, it's an argument to a certain switch that tends to give the right amount of compression
< 1567799158 926617 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think someone even takes a file about 64 kbps and then “upscales” it. Poor universe
< 1567799208 14991 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: wait, what does five mean?
< 1567799227 354436 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trick is to test how much you can compress until you notice problems if you specifically look for them, then encode to significantly better quality than that
< 1567799309 796444 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: seems a good strategy, yes
< 1567799313 295098 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: ffmpeg -i "$infile" "${metadata[@]}" -vn -c:a libvorbis -q 5.0
< 1567799322 645878 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 5.0 is a quality parameter to that particular codec
< 1567799341 135836 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need different parameters depending on the software and the compression method and the quality switch obviously
< 1567799341 390478 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, quality index, or how’s it called, I see
< 1567799379 279389 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :LAME also has an indexed set of variable rate qualities
< 1567799417 793325 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: yes, but I don't use LAME anymore
< 1567799428 797419 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just encode video and audio with ffmpeg
< 1567799740 918489 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :several times I encoded some music these days I took the quality associated with ~200 kbps, I think. Its index should be 1 or 2 perhaps. I read that even mp3 is sufficiently good on almost all sounds when at bitrates > 128 kbps, and formats like ogg you mentioned or some other new ones, fare even better, but my anecdotal evidence suggests that it’s not that simple (for mp3)
< 1567799940 604958 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, 128 kbps is usually enough
< 1567800124 818010 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :also how do you think could sample rate mismatch between a file and the sound card, matter? I don’t see how it would but…
< 1567800147 131245 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/how/
< 1567800378 146313 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :resampling audio between two arbitrary sample rates is an interesting problem
< 1567800411 418544 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a tradeoff between the amount of computation needed and the quality of the result
< 1567800445 276772 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably between different types of distortions too
< 1567800450 34808 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difficulty is related to the least common multiple of the rates
< 1567800472 34447 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously, the easiest case is when one rate is a multiple of the other
< 1567800487 476304 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general you want to interpolate to the LCM and then decimate to the output rate
< 1567800503 224988 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are ways to do this with FIR filters that provably introduce minimum distortion
< 1567800519 692914 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um
< 1567800530 516498 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what if the least common multiple is infinite, because the ratio is irrational?
< 1567800532 208569 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :however there are cases where the LCM rate would be prohibitively high
< 1567800545 566857 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that
< 1567800570 133345 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your sample rate is not a rational number then you are doing something freaky
< 1567800576 965598 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the LCM will always be finite, but it might be huge
< 1567800577 314337 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um
< 1567800580 952514 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why?
< 1567800588 137644 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sample rates are not dimensionless
< 1567800596 838544 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, why would you design a system where it's not
< 1567800600 409386 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dimension doesn't really matter
< 1567800610 559324 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there is a rational conversion factor between any two practical time units
< 1567800615 514415 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're in hertzes or gertzes depending on whether you're writing it in english or russian letters
< 1567800626 357839 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you measure time in pi-seconds or something then you deserve what's coming to you
< 1567800643 868078 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't design such a system, people design two separate systems, each of them is reasonable, it's just conversion between them that isn't
< 1567800661 249048 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you give me an example please
< 1567800661 310429 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they come around from spinning vinyl disks or whatever
< 1567800663 839924 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :where this has happened
< 1567800673 272373 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, I don't do audio stuff, it's not my thing
< 1567800686 646406 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any two time units in common use which do not have a rational conversion factor
< 1567800688 741011 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but eventually it doesn't matter of course
< 1567800704 503502 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because rational with prohibitively high LCM is basically the same problem
< 1567800710 961865 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1567800726 229168 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you get between the two with some approximation in the rate
< 1567800729 498341 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-integer rates in Hz are common, for example NTSC framerate is 29.97 Hz for Historical Reasons™
< 1567800733 673440 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and PAL is 25
< 1567800740 689338 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(b_jonas: there’s no cyrillic letter g :P also in an old transliteration h was converted to г, like Helmholtz and Huygens are (still and hopefully forever) Гельмгольц and Гюйгенс)
< 1567800748 299532 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course 29.97/25 is still rational
< 1567800766 794722 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway
< 1567800780 997811 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the LCM is too big then you can do other things at the expense of introducing distortion
< 1567800797 637887 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget exactly how
< 1567800838 765895 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can interpolate to a smaller compromise value and then during decimation, interpolate that 'on the fly' using a small filter such as cubic interpolation, that only looks at a few sample points
< 1567800859 95405 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do it properly might require storing many millions of data points in your DSP filter state
< 1567800860 565275 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from encoding music files to mp3 or ogg and chopping them timewise, all I did with audio is remove them from audio+video files when I re-encode the video
< 1567800901 322025 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a fun script once to batch-convert my master music library (a mix of mostly flac and high quality mp3) to ogg vorbis for my portable music player
< 1567800909 631463 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would distribute the work across multiple machines
< 1567800934 170463 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I rewrote it in C# because I wanted to get a taste of what C# is like
< 1567800935 324707 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it remains the only C# program I've written
< 1567800985 699753 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and it makes some sense for southern dialects where г is frequently a fricative [ɣ], not a plosive [ɡ] like in the normed dialect, and we could also for example take Ukrainian where г means [ɦ] outright and there’s a separate letter for plosive, ґ, AFAIR it’s used in rare contexts, but the transliteration of Hertz would be probably the same and it would be read more like the original name)
< 1567801041 514152 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: sure, it just becomes funny when you transliterate the russian names back to hungarian, and you get g instead of h and f instead of th
< 1567801219 324223 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: did you come to any conclusions about C#?
< 1567801415 145226 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: it seems like a fine language, like Java but less crippled, it's not terribly exciting but I wouldn't hate using it either
< 1567801508 70584 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesterday I remembered that I don’t like C# left switch statement syntax almost as it was in C and C++ (and Java?..) I have seen a syntax like switch (e) case (…) b case (…) b … else b (where b are blocks), this looks more comfortable in a language where low-level control flow inside switch doesn’t exist
< 1567801551 36007 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: ah, I agree
< 1567801589 955462 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw something like that somewhere and it looks strange
< 1567801803 888128 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'm not actually an engineer, so I don't meet those unit of measure abbreviations
< 1567801878 815214 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I guess Hz does appear on end-user electronics like mobile phone chargers
< 1567801943 302345 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but these days all those end-user electronics have magical solid state transformers that work with any of the voltage and frequency standards for mains electronics
< 1567801969 495910 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct
< 1567801976 264655 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :switch-mode power supplies
< 1567801982 95059 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of them will even run on DC input
< 1567801991 476226 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :though not to arbitrarily low voltage
< 1567801998 272022 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :SMPS are very interesting
< 1567802046 178228 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple and clever, but tricky to design well in practice
< 1567802067 804042 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"~ 110–240 V 50/60 Hz" they all say, so you can use them with passive converters if you travel to anywhere
< 1567802074 177156 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they basically do AC->DC->AC->DC
< 1567802093 246289 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which sounds inefficient but if you do it right it's very efficient
< 1567802106 864018 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that because they transform to AC with much higher frequency?
< 1567802130 433120 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still magic, I don't know how it can work
< 1567802134 225610 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the middle AC frequency is on the order of 100-1000 kHz so they can use cheaper / lighter / smaller transformers
< 1567802195 31705 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: the very simple overview is that they alternately charge up an energy storage device (usually an inductor) and then discharge it into another storage device (usually a capacitor), which feeds the load
< 1567802206 113646 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes sense, but then they have to create such a higher frequency AC too, and without too much energy loss
< 1567802209 185161 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that alternation is controlled by semiconductor switches
< 1567802231 969073 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though actually, very old devices called "vibrators" worked on a similar principle, but mechanically!)
< 1567802245 566326 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(used to transform 12V DC in a car into hundreds of V for vacuum tube radios)
< 1567802253 719590 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's a feedback loop which controls the frequency and/or duty cycle of the switching
< 1567802268 144787 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :to maintain a certain output voltage regardless of the load
< 1567802298 199737 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can boost as well as reduce voltages
< 1567802321 800557 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact you can build ones that can take any input voltage in a wide range, lower or higher or the same as the output
< 1567802326 875027 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it's more complicated
< 1567802350 606369 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then they do multiple possible output voltages, and negotiate them through USB
< 1567802352 377758 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I find really interesting are the similarities between a SMPS, a class-D amplifier, a delta-sigma DAC, and an active power factor correction circuit
< 1567802355 467472 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1567802396 270358 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can sort of think of a class-D (switching) amplifier as a SMPS whose output voltage varies over time, determined by the input signal
< 1567802400 978849 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the car charger ones take 12 V DC
< 1567802421 407942 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :USB-C-PD is neat. I have a single brick, not much bigger than a typical phone charging brick, that can charge both my phone and my laptop
< 1567802424 459839 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's handy for travel
< 1567802472 289303 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still use the larger dedicated laptop brick at home
< 1567802486 973193 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some strange esoteric things you can do with USB-C
< 1567802494 734937 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like plug two chargers into each other, or plug your laptop into itself
< 1567802500 228148 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't charge laptop, but I can charge any of my low power devices (camera, mobile phone, spare mobile phone, music player, bluetooth headphone adapter) with the same charger
< 1567802510 875029 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool
< 1567802534 611819 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're all low power, unlike the laptop
< 1567802545 197503 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :laptop chargers actually heat up, that's harder
< 1567802562 892058 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :two chargers into each other? what does that do?
< 1567802565 476463 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this brick is capable of 60W (3A @ 20V)
< 1567802569 931895 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is enough for the laptop to charge
< 1567802570 77921 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean with only one charger plugged into mains?
< 1567802585 377165 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it requires 20V which is why most of my bricks won't charge it
< 1567802591 956549 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the factory default charger is only 65W anyway
< 1567802599 555957 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it produces mains out of the other one, obviously /s
< 1567802611 117393 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that would be touch unsafe
< 1567802614 136028 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a USB-C inline power meter too
< 1567802615 489316 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is neat
< 1567802656 624207 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it tells the voltage, current, and direction of power
< 1567802771 769028 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1567802790 437093 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567802846 411705 :unlimiter!~unlimiter@41.141.153.190 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567804471 505560 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1567804892 352323 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567804900 134998 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello Lykaina
< 1567804917 899967 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :updated the documentation pdf (again)
< 1567804927 701950 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567804935 882149 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi b_jonas
< 1567804965 640483 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: interesting stuff. Now I know I don’t kow anything about contemporary electronics :D
< 1567804977 210630 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/kow/know
< 1567804992 278961 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1567804996 654029 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's complicated shit
< 1567805021 944019 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1567805023 544201 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had that impression already, but not I’m aware I’m hopeless
< 1567805038 403155 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I knew very little until 2-3 years ago
< 1567805039 776243 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which explains why our company keeps hiring so many people who understand electronics enough to design and assemble it
< 1567805080 369456 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and train engineer student interns in it too
< 1567805095 923112 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :one problem with SMPSes is that they (especially the cheap ones) tend to produce tons of radio frequency interference at frequencies which interfere with ham radio
< 1567805109 40867 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on this new, easier to read pdf, what is your opinion of Echidna? http://sif.lesidhetree.com/sara/echidna/spec_notes.pdf
< 1567805111 604182 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :making it harder and harder to operate HF from populated areas
< 1567805156 995832 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they also produce RF on the output itself so some hams still swear by the old, huge, expensive, inefficient linear power supplies
< 1567805160 533223 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: but can't the power supplies shield that with some wires unless they're disassembled?
< 1567805192 74192 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: oh, unfortunate
< 1567805236 706482 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a linear supply is much simpler. a transformer to drop ac voltage down to a bit above the target, a diode rectifier, and a linear regular which acts as a variable resistor in series with the load
< 1567805242 27482 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some smoothing caps
< 1567805254 216791 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still a feedback system, but an analog continuous-time one
< 1567805257 796964 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no switching
< 1567805280 148879 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :most ham gear comes with a 13.8V DC power input and you provide your own power supply
< 1567805310 467613 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some of the cheaper ones are made so badly that they draw measurable current from the mains even when they're not loaded
< 1567805315 177005 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes but that would cost an extra $0.0002
< 1567805325 233060 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there shielding
< 1567805345 141580 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean you need it for FCC certification but how many Chinese companies will actually care
< 1567805354 434847 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus the shielding isn't necessarily good enough for hams
< 1567805362 481435 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :who wants to pick up weak signals
< 1567805381 867380 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :much more stringent requirements than "don't interfere with my other consumer electronics"
< 1567805395 981742 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1567805425 622021 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean you need it for FCC certification but how many Chinese companies will actually care> would they hopefully decades later?
< 1567805446 541382 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops I forgot to copy all
< 1567805455 420493 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like astronomers, who have to move their big telescopes to small research towns that have more stringent regulation for darkening curtains on houses than people had during world war II
< 1567805480 62685 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand how they don't just trip and fall on the street at new moon there
< 1567805489 659382 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yqsmbnheqptssdyu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567805490 901638 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1567805510 280593 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the human eye can do well in very low light if properly adjusti
< 1567805515 886740 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: flashlights and wax candles
< 1567805517 669380 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :adjusted
< 1567805542 600827 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yes, that's why it's fine at full moon
< 1567805550 862133 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :even at half moon
< 1567805566 915505 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sometimes there's new moon, and then it's new moon everywhere on Earth
< 1567805589 322839 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :including in those places
< 1567805594 398162 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat
< 1567805622 379389 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i asked my question at the wrong time...
< 1567805629 835482 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: no
< 1567805635 932411 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry
< 1567805642 393710 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will look at that pdf eventually
< 1567805642 597143 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(don’t mind me, I’m stalling in going to sleep)
< 1567805672 489164 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already decided that it's not so weird to have 4 addressing modes for most instructions, because you have so few instructions that the total is still well under 256 different opcodes
< 1567805750 573865 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh?
< 1567805790 314225 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: I complained a few days ago that it seemed strange that almost every operand to your instructions can be immediate, or so it seems from the pdf
< 1567805810 867356 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have like a dozen two-operand instructions where that applies to both operands
< 1567805834 739286 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: my previous question about indirect loads still stands though
< 1567805848 59349 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1567805856 76974 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: maybe you don't logread? is that the problem?
< 1567805873 492578 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is logread?
< 1567805913 191245 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :read channel logs for what people said while you're not joined to the channel
< 1567805925 726989 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :has nothing to do with logarithms
< 1567806002 934429 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: maybe @tell, then?
< 1567806137 321407 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw I rely upon lambdabot usually, so if I should logread something, please remind me in that case too
< 1567806195 610097 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: what is indirect load?
< 1567806240 521904 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: load when the memory address of where you're loading from is not constant
< 1567806263 987614 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :although now with this later version of the pdf, it's getting unclear
< 1567806271 275523 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :does this thing allow self-modifying code?
< 1567806284 108849 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think so
< 1567806333 443652 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then why does it say that subroutines are at "Range 0100-EFFF" of the "Memory"? is that in a code memory separate from the data memory that the arithmetic instructions operate on?
< 1567806359 524900 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should look at the interpreter. does it have readable code?
< 1567806375 990464 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :typo. subroutines uses that memory space
< 1567806407 953620 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's your data stack?
< 1567806422 470190 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait
< 1567806432 82873 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't have a stack, you don't have the right sort of instructions for them
< 1567806443 879793 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be hard to manipulate a stack without an indirect load
< 1567806449 9052 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's why it's such a large area?
< 1567806450 79152 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well
< 1567806465 627462 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :read the interpreter
< 1567806468 256932 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you can globally compile everything, find all the calls, and assign the local addresses that way
< 1567806831 370877 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i understand what you mean by indirect load correctly, i may be able to implement it by adding a third argument input type (as in other than @xxxx and =xxxx types)
< 1567806869 795308 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so.. the control instructions, as in N & -- O P Q _ - are all structured ones, there are no arbitrary gotos
< 1567806872 814594 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting
< 1567806908 392537 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: as I read the spec right now, the L and M instructions are the only ones that can do an indirect load
< 1567806921 520435 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, except I don't understand what the S instruction does at all
< 1567806947 421410 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :reads the program
< 1567806958 30948 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :*from the
< 1567807066 577476 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if there's text in the program file
< 1567807080 226549 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :it reads it to memory
< 1567807113 101724 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that makes sense
< 1567807257 335918 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i make, say, a $xxxx in addition to =xxxx and @xxxx, where, as @xxxx is mem[value], $xxxx would be mem[mem[value]], would that help?
< 1567807382 999478 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but which instructions would take which combinations of address modes? you'd have to tell that somewhere
< 1567807417 847494 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to have indirect addresing modes sort of everywhere, then I don't understand why you have a specific instruction for an indirect store
< 1567807453 154205 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is indirect store?
< 1567807458 528495 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :H
< 1567807463 686073 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also does ordinary store
< 1567807593 121347 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:1943:d2a7:aeba:5324 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1567807602 816692 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's not dedicated
< 1567807623 304424 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's dedicated because the other instructions, the arithmetic ones, can only store to a fixed address
< 1567807628 609734 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but H can store indirectly
< 1567807637 687578 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :really?
< 1567807638 432654 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the logic instructions can load indirect if I understand correctly
< 1567807651 537522 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe I just misunderstand the spec
< 1567807761 844788 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm wait
< 1567807778 382611 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1567807786 853806 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have an idea for rewriting memory addressing notation, would mean the samples would have to be rewritten too...
< 1567807809 134229 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the implementation it doesn't look like the L and M instructions can read from indirect addresses
< 1567807813 662174 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did I see in the spec then?
< 1567807843 123174 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1567807864 760500 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just didn't understand the descriptions of the L and M ops from the pdf because they're a bit unclear on what is their input and output
< 1567807876 528683 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interpreter makes it clear that they don't do indirect loads
< 1567807899 49186 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also that all the arithmetic instructions can do indirect stores
< 1567807903 425194 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I was wrong about that too
< 1567807909 313491 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :=xxxx is currently used to represent mem[xxxx] instead of xxxx in certain places
< 1567807926 458727 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm seeing possible confusion
< 1567807967 699807 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno then
< 1567807979 134059 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the current combo with no indirect load but lots of indirect stores is ... strange
< 1567807993 555707 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall having seen such an instruction set
< 1567807996 57776 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :like H =xxxx =yyyy stores yyyy to mem[xxxx]
< 1567808014 609017 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that confusing?
< 1567808033 89645 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: no, it's not confusing about the H and the arithmetic instructions
< 1567808042 926339 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for your description of the logic instructions, it is confusing
< 1567808051 470954 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pdf doesn't tell what they read and write
< 1567808057 686180 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike in the arithmetic instructions
< 1567808090 220284 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at page 1 for examples of L and M
< 1567808282 486894 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that help?
< 1567808285 711043 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1567808307 31051 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the implementation code does though
< 1567808342 973881 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you recommend i change it?
< 1567808392 428953 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pdf, i mean
< 1567808404 615407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit
< 1567808419 731773 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the pdf, where you describe the T operation, you see how there's an equals sign in it? mem[val0] is on the lhs of that, val1 and val2 are on the rhs. from that you can tell that the first operand is output only, the second and third are input only
< 1567808443 547866 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it tells what that instruction does, what it stores to mem[val0]
< 1567808470 910244 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :try something like that for the L and M instructions
< 1567808543 127526 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "L bitwise_1bit: mem[val0] = (~val1 & val2 | val1 & val3)"
< 1567808562 103911 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :only of course swap around the stuff in it until it actually describes what the operation does
< 1567808674 646031 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :similarly like "M bitwise_2bit: mem[val0] = (val1 & val2 & -(0 != val & 8)) | val1 & ~val2 & -(0 != val & 4) | ~val1 & val2 & -(0 != val & 2) | ~val1 & ~val2 & -(0 != val &1)) but again swap around stuff until it matches your implementation
< 1567808732 729665 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it will help, i'm gonna change the {=,@} stuff to {=,@,$} where =xxxx is always literal value, @xxxx is always direct address, and $xxxx is always indirect address
< 1567808764 642878 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't want long formulas there, you can also write something like "M bitwise_2bit: mem[val0] = bitwise_2bit(val1, val2, val3)" and you explain elsewhere what the pure arithmetic part "bitwise_2bit" does, to at least maek it clear what is read from memory and what is written
< 1567808807 480505 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: might help, since that matches more how popular assembly syntax for cpus work
< 1567808830 380592 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like that approach. it's what i attempted to do originally
< 1567808839 634202 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you should also have somewhere in the pdf that makes it clear which instructions work with what combinatinos of addressing modes
< 1567809001 859752 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you
< 1567809003 40257 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needn't be in the same table as the one that summarizes the ops
< 1567809008 167012 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be a separate table
< 1567809540 193595 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: oh, and I also asked
< 1567809553 603625 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:dd1d:c0d0:b2fd:9149 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567809602 751227 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: for the arithmetic instructions that do less-than compare, division, right shift, can you make it clear whether these are unsigned integer comparison, unsigned divsion, unsigned right shift? and is there a separate signed less-than comparison instruction?
< 1567809815 596674 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:dd1d:c0d0:b2fd:9149 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1567810011 83879 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait... the interpreter stores each of the 65536 words of the memory, logically 2 bytes sized each, in 4 bytes each?
< 1567810014 103688 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you doing that?
< 1567810028 115903 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is this something I misunderstood in the pdf too, and they're actually 4 byte long?
< 1567810048 2785 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks from the interpreter as if they were 4 bytes long
< 1567810054 401644 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait
< 1567810069 59846 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but wait
< 1567810069 986240 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1567810078 463644 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1567810105 116073 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is confusing
< 1567810119 728022 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have to read the whole code to tell if you can store more than two bytes in a cell, thus breaking the abstraction
< 1567810122 966211 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not willing to do that now
< 1567810444 347428 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it's supposed to be 65536 cells, each 2 bytes in size.
< 1567810457 107152 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then why don't you represent them that way too?
< 1567810464 210894 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't?
< 1567810473 320492 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't look like from the source code
< 1567810511 758679 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are "unsigned int". in C, is that not 2 bytes?
< 1567810518 495096 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1567810589 619972 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i always thought an int was 2 bytes, a long was 4 bytes...
< 1567810616 307280 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rhlvmgrmtzwmpdca PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1567810631 249280 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rhlvmgrmtzwmpdca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want 2 bytes use uint16_t
< 1567810668 439775 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :j4cbo: it's not that simple, you have to be careful with the arithmetic because it will promote to int and do a signed shift
< 1567810671 442432 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is ugly
< 1567810687 992213 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may need explicit casts or such things
< 1567810689 586036 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rhlvmgrmtzwmpdca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah arithmetic is tricky
< 1567810698 567549 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arithmetic in *C* is tricky
< 1567810711 976150 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a complication by C rules
< 1567810718 727271 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rhlvmgrmtzwmpdca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: the C standard doesn’t place many constraints on how big exactly int, long, etc are
< 1567810794 126698 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rhlvmgrmtzwmpdca PRIVMSG #esoteric :often on modern computers short is 2, int is 4, long is 8 but that is NOT guaranteed
< 1567810808 677153 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :j4cbo: if I subtract an unsigned int from a signed long, what type is the result?
< 1567810841 731164 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll change it to a short
< 1567810851 339009 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of an int
< 1567810852 270216 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rhlvmgrmtzwmpdca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: no
< 1567810873 950487 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rhlvmgrmtzwmpdca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want 2 bytes, write int16_t or uint16_t
< 1567810882 119000 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: what's your take?
< 1567810902 190572 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: again, it's not that simple, if you do that, you'll also have to change some of the code for the arithmetic instrs too
< 1567810909 710064 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rhlvmgrmtzwmpdca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I know the right answer is “read the spec” :P
< 1567810935 408551 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the current version gets more of them right than if you just change all the types to a short
< 1567810997 795483 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :j4cbo: I'm still a bit shocked about how (a) 0<1 has a different type in C++ than in C, yet the difference in type is _almost_ never detectable in code that you can write in both C and C++
< 1567811055 45000 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's a pity, because apart from that stupid change, the C++ rules are usually IMO better than the C rules
< 1567811107 190875 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's possible that that change is for the better too, I'm just not quite convinced that it's worth
< 1567811207 129705 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: anyway, I think first you should decide how you want the less-than, division and right-shift operations behave, then be careful that the code for those and for the subtraction implements them correctly
< 1567811266 853749 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsigned, integer division
< 1567811282 233170 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :no floats
< 1567811439 734495 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-35-175-217-128.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :x-=-1
< 1567811469 723107 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: ah yes, secret operators
< 1567811584 128493 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that even compile?
< 1567811591 367324 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :x-=-1 ?
< 1567811637 199747 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know it has to be "x -= -1"
< 1567811660 467129 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what does that do?
< 1567811670 932429 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rhlvmgrmtzwmpdca PRIVMSG #esoteric :don’t forget the “goes to” operator: while (x --> 0) { ... }
< 1567811701 978867 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :x=x - -1
< 1567811769 589535 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoever invented lambda operations is a sadist
< 1567811769 699863 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-35-175-217-128.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the -=- operator is the same as the += operator
< 1567811832 728199 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly
< 1567811838 222718 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-35-175-217-128.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the +=- operator is the same as the -= operator
< 1567811861 487849 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :why make them?
< 1567812119 676321 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: not quite, sadly
< 1567812129 729305 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in C that is
< 1567812132 305903 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :overflow rules
< 1567812215 579561 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :+= is better than -=-
< 1567812564 930616 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-35-175-217-128.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, when the right operand is MAX_INT?
< 1567812735 975466 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:5ded:1c76:ebea:a8b1 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567812847 252750 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.zentut.com/c-tutorial/c-integer/
< 1567813010 10380 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:5ded:1c76:ebea:a8b1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1567813263 295587 :unlimiter!~unlimiter@41.141.153.190 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.5
< 1567813697 568797 :Saggytarius!2e3bf952@46.59.249.82 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567814051 568634 :Saggytarius!2e3bf952@46.59.249.82 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
> 1567815030 969361 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Echidna14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66003&oldid=65993 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+0) 10updating with newest interpreter link.
< 1567815141 13004 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :made changes to both interpreter and spec_notes file
< 1567815174 927728 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: too late today, but warn me later to look at them
< 1567815186 320992 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/warn/remind/
< 1567815192 978378 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :k
< 1567815314 79048 :unlimiter!~unlimiter@105.157.22.201 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567815444 490099 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope page 3 of the pdf is helpful
< 1567815510 750239 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also known as "Never ask me do to documentation for something that matters."
< 1567815671 107850 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yqsmbnheqptssdyu QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1567816325 493566 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The TUTOR language has 150 variables, named v1 through v150, which can be assigned names.
< 1567816332 604229 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just... *blink*
< 1567816363 324716 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Sgeo
< 1567816370 610119 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems like enough?
< 1567816381 212641 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You only needs two anyway.
< 1567816401 773810 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi Lykaina
< 1567816588 155741 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls tmp
< 1567816589 232183 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :a.c \ a.out \ compiled_brachylog.pl \ input.brachylog \ jeval.whatis \ out \ OUT \ out.a \ out.a.hd \ out.a.xxd \ paste \ spline \ spout \ spout.raw \ tmp.txt
< 1567816592 990560 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` tmp/out.a
< 1567816593 839951 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally
< 1567816599 742 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :tg
< 1567816602 946497 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` file tmp/out.a
< 1567816603 891359 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tmp/out.a: ELF 64-bit LSB shared object, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, not stripped
< 1567818007 942688 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:5ded:1c76:ebea:a8b1 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567818136 594004 :unlimiter!~unlimiter@105.157.22.201 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.5
< 1567818327 945155 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:5ded:1c76:ebea:a8b1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1567819770 647710 :unlimiter!~unlimiter@105.157.22.201 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567822372 440876 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url tmp/out.a.hd
< 1567822373 315233 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/tmp/out.a.hd
< 1567822533 715307 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone over at ##c wanted `a || b` on pointer-typed operands to yield the first non-null value, instead of 0 or 1.
< 1567822633 314382 :unlimiter!~unlimiter@105.157.22.201 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.5
< 1567822651 600965 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of the amd64 System V ABI, I'm still kind of confused about %rdx.
< 1567822734 802393 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're supposed to register it with atexit, when you're using the ELF interpreter with dynamic linking.
< 1567822761 2117 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I seem to get 0 in that register even in that case?
< 1567822849 333019 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it might be that the system may or may not provide it? Though that's not what the spec says.
< 1567822860 19942 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But how are you supposed to know?
< 1567822874 940843 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if it's null presumably you don't need to register it.
< 1567822877 155375 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you just check for 0, but I don't like that. What if it's initialized to something else?
< 1567822913 863226 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :By "may or may not provide" I meant it'd always set it to 0 if it doesn't need you to register anything.
< 1567822933 104030 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it would be nice if any standard specified that.
< 1567822936 989115 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's just something that could make sense, I don't have any proof for that.
< 1567822942 277141 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does BA_OS mean anyway?
< 1567822960 697470 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good question.
< 1567822982 56118 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Base System
< 1567823016 86031 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, apparently they are sections of the System V Interface Definition.
< 1567823019 139155 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :See https://stackoverflow.com/questions/37419635/in-the-elf-spec-what-does-ba-os-and-ke-os-mean and the linked PDF.
< 1567823023 778940 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which presumably you already found.
< 1567823203 468261 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should just look at what crt.o does.
< 1567823209 541762 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately it's all such a mess.
< 1567823295 712022 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what all software is. I'm always surprised it works as often as it does.
< 1567823336 767664 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been writing Go recreationally lately.
< 1567823347 887302 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo >/tmp/test.s $'.text; .globl _start; _start: mov $60, %rax; mov $123, %rdi; syscall'; as -o /tmp/test.o /tmp/test.s && ld -dynamic-linker /lib64/ld-linx-x86-64.so.2 -o /tmp/test /tmp/test.o && /tmp/test; echo $?; file /tmp/test
< 1567823348 883690 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :123 \ /tmp/test: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), statically linked, not stripped
< 1567823374 848927 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the flag to give to ld to make that dynamically linked?
< 1567823433 91520 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember, ld is awkward to use directly. It's not -shared, because that's what creates shared objects.
< 1567823448 958439 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :-Bdynamic?
< 1567823458 576720 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried that and it was still static.
< 1567823472 329758 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess -lc works but that does rather a lot more than I want here.
< 1567823506 332491 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also this is pointless because I don't know how to output the value of %rdx in HackEso.
< 1567823514 815643 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd use gdb locally.
< 1567823558 41779 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you don't need all the bits just to see if it's zero or not.
< 1567823565 364487 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You did just output the value 123 there.
< 1567823565 956479 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's true. That was my plan.
< 1567823574 902850 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it'll be 0.
< 1567823598 65791 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it needs to have a some NEEDED entries to not count as "statically linked" for file.
< 1567823627 795231 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` file /bin/ls
< 1567823628 616231 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/ls: ELF 64-bit LSB shared object, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2, for GNU/Linux 2.6.32, BuildID[sha1]=3c233e12c466a83aa9b2094b07dbfaa5bd10eccd, stripped
< 1567823641 297001 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it was dynamically linked I think it'd say "shared object" instead of "executable".
< 1567823686 134137 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would at least name the interpreter.
< 1567823819 216398 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, execve can tell you ENOENT when the interpreter isn't found.
< 1567823851 153240 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo >/tmp/test.s $'.text; .globl _start; _start: mov $60, %rax; mov $123, %rdi; syscall'; as -o /tmp/test.o /tmp/test.s && ld -dynamic-linker /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 -o /tmp/test /tmp/test.o -lc && /tmp/test; echo $?; file /tmp/test
< 1567823852 378430 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :123 \ /tmp/test: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2, not stripped
< 1567823919 311772 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. I guess ld might just not be willing to make a dynamically linked thing without any libraries.
< 1567823979 500664 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably something unknowable to mortals involving linker scripts.
< 1567824023 746211 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo >/tmp/test.s $'.text; .globl _start; _start: mov $100, %rdi; test %rdx, %rdx; jz e; mov $105, %rdi; e: mov $60, %rax; syscall'; as -o /tmp/test.o /tmp/test.s && ld -dynamic-linker /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 -o /tmp/test /tmp/test.o -lc && /tmp/test; echo $?
< 1567824025 135307 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :105
< 1567824048 373844 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh oh. Is that saying that rdx is nonzero?
< 1567824056 236479 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what it sounded like.
< 1567824061 560650 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I'm starting to remember this. There was something complicated here.
< 1567824084 387371 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo >/tmp/test.s $'.text; .globl _start; _start: call %rdx; mov $60, %rax; mov $123, %rdi; syscall'; as -o /tmp/test.o /tmp/test.s && ld -dynamic-linker /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 -o /tmp/test /tmp/test.o -lc && /tmp/test; echo $?
< 1567824085 398336 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :/tmp/test.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/test.s:1: Warning: indirect call without `*' \ 123
< 1567824095 989423 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1567824103 176177 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So now I'm not sure what issue I ran into.
< 1567824109 65597 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there was definitely something.
< 1567824206 874246 :aloril_!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a4b-4.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1567824300 991020 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo >/tmp/test.s $'.text; .globl _start; _start: push %rdx; mov $1, %edi; mov %rsp, %rsi; mov $8, %edx; mov $1, %eax; syscall; mov $60, %eax; syscall'; as -o /tmp/test.o /tmp/test.s && ld -dynamic-linker /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 -o /tmp/test /tmp/test.o -lc && /tmp/test | hd
< 1567824302 731344 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :000000 a0 fb 00 40 00 00 00 00 >...@....< \ 000008
< 1567824304 96339 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I was testing this with musl libc where it doesn't work so well.
< 1567824306 182778 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks nonzero to me.
< 1567824345 799095 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x4000fba0 might be a plausible pointer as well, maybe?
< 1567824348 47574 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat /proc/self/maps
< 1567824348 728282 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :00100000-00102000 r-xp 00000000 00:00 0 \ 40000000-40023000 r-xp 00000000 00:0f 1336451 /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/ld-2.24.so \ 40023000-40025000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0 \ 40025000-401c1000 r--p 00000000 00:0d 1440239 /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive \ 401c1000-401e3000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0 \ 40223000-40224000 r--p 00023000 00:0f 1336451 /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/ld-2.24.so \ 40224000-
< 1567824393 937594 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I called it in the program above, so it's certainly a plausible function pointer.
< 1567824496 941964 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:5ded:1c76:ebea:a8b1 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567824537 711148 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, this is interesting. I remember now.
< 1567824561 263019 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :musl's ELF interpreter is passing _start's address in %rdx.
< 1567824654 958390 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now I see I had a comment saying this in my ELF generator program.
< 1567824736 665583 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo >/tmp/test.s $'.global _start; _start: mov $1, %eax'; as -o /tmp/test.o /tmp/test.s && ld --oformat=binary -o /tmp/test /tmp/test.o && wc -c /tmp/test
< 1567824738 124877 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 /tmp/test
< 1567824740 209380 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo >/tmp/test.s $'.global _start; _start: mov $1, %rax'; as -o /tmp/test.o /tmp/test.s && ld --oformat=binary -o /tmp/test /tmp/test.o && wc -c /tmp/test
< 1567824741 461752 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 /tmp/test
< 1567824751 633736 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just as an aside.
< 1567824771 944500 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:5ded:1c76:ebea:a8b1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1567824852 33452 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're commenting on my "mov $60, %rax" and so on?
< 1567824890 960058 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not really "commenting on", but related to.
< 1567824891 449246 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's true that I almost ran up against HackEso's time and memory limits with those extra bytes.
< 1567824896 565647 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's true.
< 1567824917 312490 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to use cmp %rdx, $0 but I thought people would make fun of me.
< 1567824926 134766 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I used test %rdx, %rdx instead.
< 1567824956 7461 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly it was too late.
< 1567825172 523593 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a thing that does a thing every few hours or so. I'd like to know if it starts failing to do the thing. I added Prometheus counters for total things and failed things, but I'm a little afraid the natural timescale of Prometheus is not well suited to that. (I'm sure it *can* work, but still.)
< 1567825175 414033 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-5d6a4b-4.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567825331 890645 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't want to make it do the thing more often, because it does the thing to someone else's thing, and anyway it doesn't need to because usually it's just the same thing.)
< 1567825440 998522 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, what's the issue here?
< 1567825558 853155 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought there should be made Magic: the Gathering card named "Leper Window", but am unsure what it should be.
< 1567825580 522183 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :either a M:tG card or a band
< 1567825599 57694 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi kmc
< 1567825618 843514 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you in for scrapping all existing software
< 1567825622 438533 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it isn't really an issue, it just feels wrong to sample the thing every minute or every five minutes because it's almost never changing, and then there's a lot of samples. But from what I recall, Prometheus can't really do sparse sampling.
< 1567825664 685209 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: meh
< 1567825692 981197 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for sdr of course
< 1567825788 719055 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: How do you feel about getting scrapped?
< 1567825789 126794 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: know of any
< 1567825818 399123 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Anyone who got scrapped? No, not really.
< 1567825818 656339 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: my favourite fractal is still cantor's dust :) i was just requesting a heap of muck. but some.
< 1567825922 766083 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: how do you feel about scrapping all non-kittens
< 1567825942 185798 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can make up a band called that too, maybe.
< 1567825947 176983 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was telling the miri folks about how i want to make a kitten maximizer
< 1567825961 416193 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of them seem nervous about the idea
< 1567826086 870619 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed the Echidna documentation
< 1567826098 255933 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :for now
< 1567826122 557174 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :clarified pg 3
< 1567826476 442908 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: how about an everything minimizer
< 1567826744 210814 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :no hth
< 1567826811 684231 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :only things beginning with the letter n
< 1567826826 333155 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that a maximizer?
< 1567826869 902339 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://english.lem.pl/works/novels/the-cyberiad/146-how-the-world-was-saved
< 1567828179 568272 :Spexty!2e3bf952@46.59.249.82 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567828443 569056 :Spexty!2e3bf952@46.59.249.82 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1567829025 298319 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "arrow" command in TUTOR is weirdly named. It doesn't just drawn an arrow
< 1567830568 116479 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does the "arrow" command in TUTOR mean, then?
< 1567830989 787152 :adu!~ajr@pool-173-73-86-191.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567831013 602418 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:5ded:1c76:ebea:a8b1 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567831265 600180 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:5ded:1c76:ebea:a8b1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1567832142 821670 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It prompts the student for input, and enters a judging mode for commands like answer or wrong to pattern match against the input. I think
< 1567832174 191717 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A judging block in TUTOR is a control structure that begins with an arrow command and ends with the next arrow, endarrow or unit command. The arrow command also prompts for input, with the special arrow character (resembling "▷") displayed as a prompt at the indicated screen coordinates. In effect, a judging block can be thought of as a backtracking control structure where the student may make multiple attempts to answer a question unti
< 1567832174 331681 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :l a correct answer allows forward progress."
< 1567832191 333873 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TUTOR_(programming_language)
< 1567836642 611471 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:dd14:816e:6445:4bc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567836742 941885 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:e0df:8599:cf09:7e1a JOIN :#esoteric
> 1567836842 805647 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GolfJoke14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66004&oldid=54460 5* 03A 5* (+734) 10
< 1567836955 524784 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:dd14:816e:6445:4bc QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1567837011 951019 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:e0df:8599:cf09:7e1a QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
> 1567837148 709823 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GolfJoke14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66005&oldid=66004 5* 03A 5* (-735) 10
> 1567837194 526019 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GolfJoke14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66006&oldid=66005 5* 03A 5* (+12) 10
< 1567837894 338303 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So here's the entry point call in musl: https://github.com/ifduyue/musl/blob/master/ldso/dynlink.c#L1742
< 1567837919 573990 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently it just uses an automatically-selecte register, so with one version I was getting the entry point in rdx and in another version I was getting it in rax (and rdx was 0).
< 1567837941 639738 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I feel like something is wrong here because it's obviously not passing something in in rdx.
< 1567837961 29264 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also I mean entry point jump, not call, of course.)
< 1567838357 602623 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:e0df:8599:cf09:7e1a JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567839504 428419 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should rodata be mapped -x?
< 1567839516 737365 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how likely it is to contain ROP gadgets or that sort of thing.
< 1567839768 463326 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ro ro ro your data
< 1567839779 383103 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a good reason why it should be +x?
< 1567839780 574994 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides fun
< 1567839958 19457 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-0.2 rounds to 0 in TUTOR's conditional statements that compare an expression and have different branches for negative, zero, and individual positive numbers
< 1567839998 98055 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so?
< 1567840013 186783 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can load it in one segment rather than two.
< 1567840033 260712 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Go compiler generates three load segments, r, rx, rw
< 1567840042 989359 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas gcc/clang generate only rx and rw.
> 1567840698 81476 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GolfSpace14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=66007 5* 03A 5* (+361) 10Created page with "[[GolfSpace]] is a joke esolang inspired by [[Golf Cheat]] and [[GolfJoke]]. It is essentially [[GolfJoke]], except the question number is encoded as backspaces and Deletes as..."
< 1567841720 720405 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa whoa whoa
< 1567841731 762945 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently they expanded on "Assembled a contraption".
< 1567841737 509825 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I knew about that? I don't remember.
< 1567841805 264226 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567844383 714805 :adu!~ajr@pool-173-73-86-191.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: adu
> 1567844627 239907 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Slindow14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=66008 5* 03A 5* (+174) 10Created page with "[[Slindow]] is an [[esoteric programming language]] that makes it easy to solve sliding-window challenges. [[Category:Languages]] [[Category:2019]] [[Category:Unimplemented]]"
> 1567844781 952643 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Slindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66009&oldid=66008 5* 03A 5* (+386) 10
> 1567845024 992855 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Slindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66010&oldid=66009 5* 03A 5* (+350) 10
< 1567845070 465235 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thoughts on wget2?
< 1567845885 519790 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that?
< 1567846103 619775 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1567846215 114479 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
> 1567846716 544757 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07$14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66011&oldid=58729 5* 03Rdebath 5* (+67) 10Turing
> 1567847500 650675 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Slindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66012&oldid=66010 5* 03A 5* (+656) 10
> 1567847849 673352 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Slindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66013&oldid=66012 5* 03A 5* (+14) 10/* Built-ins */
< 1567848917 656593 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :had a dream jessie and james finally captured pikachu, but james was sucked into the pokball as well
< 1567849195 439230 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :jessie wasn't sure whether to keep pikachu or free her boyfriend james.
< 1567849400 461418 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :as pikachu would likely escape
< 1567850874 825929 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, but only in silver-bordered land. it's one of MaRo's worse ideas to give meaning to it.
< 1567851661 400017 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi b_jonas
< 1567851690 462810 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :working on an update to doc and code
< 1567851712 4925 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll let you know when finished
> 1567853822 454921 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Echidna14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66014&oldid=66003 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+0) 10updating with newest interpreter link.
< 1567853852 470196 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: updated
< 1567859770 568106 :Spexty!2e3bf952@46.59.249.82 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567860927 772907 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567860932 695777 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net PART :#esoteric
< 1567866992 598548 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qgdfctcwfvubxhsg JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567867215 53731 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the history of lenses (Haskell ones)?
< 1567867238 98252 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567867369 218711 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1567867794 48610 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :updated documentation pdf for Echidna
> 1567868257 593266 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Echidna14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66015&oldid=66014 5* 03Lykaina 5* (-8) 10fixing first line
< 1567868881 809578 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Sgeo_
< 1567869379 503517 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :might as well move Echidna from Dropbox to Git
< 1567869491 26536 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567869516 845229 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-003-156-154.178.003.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1567869766 8548 :Spexty!2e3bf952@46.59.249.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what do people wanna talk about lol
< 1567869819 575984 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :Echidna, mother of all monsters?
< 1567869833 654503 :Spexty!2e3bf952@46.59.249.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :idk anything about echidna lol
< 1567869852 749346 :Spexty!2e3bf952@46.59.249.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I check it out?
< 1567869871 59989 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :Echidna is my esolang
< 1567869882 682844 :Spexty!2e3bf952@46.59.249.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well should I check it out lol
< 1567869931 739988 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. it's still a work in progress, though
< 1567869951 272383 :Spexty!2e3bf952@46.59.249.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1567870071 948154 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm working on moving it to a bitbucket repo
< 1567870110 582023 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make it easier for me
< 1567870128 699085 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently hosted on my webserver
< 1567870331 930110 :Spexty!2e3bf952@46.59.249.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1567870453 243108 :Spexty!2e3bf952@46.59.249.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like a neat language
< 1567870468 492884 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-084-063-063-063.084.063.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567870881 963826 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1567872934 376514 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: you active?
< 1567873198 435376 :Spexty!2e3bf952@46.59.249.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we might as well be the only "kind of active" people here lol
< 1567873379 904768 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spexty: fungot is always active, it’s usually just not noticeable
< 1567873380 111356 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: and i don't think it's true that it turns 110 into 111 and vice versa?
< 1567873395 148489 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need help from someone i already know i can trust. I knew Sgeo_ in rl, nobody else here qualifies for that as far as I know.
< 1567873552 776517 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for Echidna...did i do this right? https://bitbucket.org/lykaina/echidna/
< 1567873587 860194 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1567873796 946682 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :can someone tell me if i did the repo properly?
< 1567874061 940708 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :great...
< 1567874078 372425 :Spexty!2e3bf952@46.59.249.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :idk anything about bitbucket sry
< 1567874089 832285 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it look good
< 1567874109 701587 :Spexty!2e3bf952@46.59.249.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean
< 1567874113 9915 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it missing anything on visual inspection
< 1567874124 295835 :Spexty!2e3bf952@46.59.249.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think so
< 1567874156 313487 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :bitbucket is a competitor to github
< 1567874167 895155 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty much it
< 1567874288 249730 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like using microsoft products when i don't have to
< 1567874561 288497 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :and bitbucket is owned by atlassian, so i have the free version of jira as well
< 1567874569 733153 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think if you need a version control, there is Fossil
< 1567874613 779640 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been using bitbucket for years
< 1567874614 955547 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Atlassian is odd.
< 1567874625 135346 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so?
< 1567874673 20094 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've gone through the procedure of deleting my account once. Which is when I learned that I had *two* accounts, one bitbucket account and one general Atlassian account in the background that I was unaware of before...
< 1567874765 466455 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And IIRC the process meant that I had a third account in their issue tracker.
< 1567874781 200132 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :This abundance of service specific accounts is what I found odd.
< 1567874790 206651 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1567874799 679023 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's weird
< 1567874810 343775 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(all linked via the atlassian account, of course)
< 1567874876 372760 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The best part was the final email that said that my account was not deleted... and that I please not reply to the email because that would re-create an issue tracking account.
< 1567874908 889399 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the repo i linked to look okay?
< 1567874936 366230 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :and does Fossil have issue tracking?
< 1567874947 796555 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, Fossil has issue tracking
< 1567874954 671742 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :link?
< 1567875054 998056 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a git host, right?
< 1567875081 234229 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it is a different system from git (and less confusing, in my opinion and some other people's opinion too)
< 1567875097 124691 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: well it wants me to log in with Atlassian, so nothing to be seen there
< 1567875112 99284 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i pulled it off
< 1567875127 843594 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll check out github in a minute
< 1567875190 792702 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: that may be a repo setting though
< 1567875208 301682 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs
< 1567875778 899344 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: BTW I’m always confused about my git repos so I can’t help, sorry
< 1567876099 846519 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/lykaina/echidna
< 1567876288 494936 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567876878 89405 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: like this one?
< 1567877034 287124 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like a normal github repo to me
< 1567877058 504448 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble QUIT :Quit: Martini. Gin, not vodka. Obviously. Stirred for 10 seconds while glancing at an unopened bottle of vermouth.
< 1567877060 27545 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that good?
< 1567877171 37968 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to be neutral. (I'm torn about github. I use it a lot, so I'm familiar with it. I dislike the fact that it was acquired by Microsoft, but not enough to actually switch to a different provider.)
< 1567877221 598699 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it good for hosting an esolang?
< 1567877250 975068 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are quite a few esolang related github repos.
< 1567877294 736433 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's servicable.
< 1567877318 217519 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(To use a less controversial categorization than good vs. bad.)
< 1567877348 907834 :Spexty!2e3bf952@46.59.249.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, if an esolang isn't on the esolangs wiki, it's probably on github
< 1567877356 969417 :Spexty!2e3bf952@46.59.249.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhere
< 1567877357 905252 :Spexty!2e3bf952@46.59.249.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1567877362 3492 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they do not require you to change all of your accounts to Microsoft accounts, then I do not know why that would be the reason to avoid it. (I do not use GitHub for my own projects, although that has nothing to do with Microsoft, and is because I prefer Fossil and I think git is confusing)
< 1567877366 941032 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble JOIN :#esoteric
> 1567877613 951937 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Echidna14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66016&oldid=66015 5* 03Lykaina 5* (-59) 10linking to my github instead of my webhost.
< 1567878663 291414 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I tried to figure out what you meant, since even in un-sets the lands aren't silver-bordered.
< 1567878672 154617 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then I reparsed it.
< 1567878686 609093 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The basic lands anyways aren't silver border
< 1567878990 398299 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's true. Maybe there are unbasic lands.
< 1567879027 299907 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you make up some more Magic: the Gathering cards today?
< 1567879049 495968 :polomukuyu!~polomukuy@41.215.132.180 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567879073 506761 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1567879084 140503 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1567879084 865210 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to make up a different game but didn't get very far yet.
< 1567879170 94442 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What different game is that?
< 1567879209 682992 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh-gi-yu?
< 1567879257 353845 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :(said it backwards as not to swear)\
< 1567879257 579841 :Spexty!2e3bf952@46.59.249.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yu-gi-oh lol
< 1567879266 635937 :Spexty!2e3bf952@46.59.249.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't wanna swear? damn
< 1567879325 858226 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone hates yu-gi-oh at my lgs
< 1567879343 73838 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I was talking about assembling contraptions, not about basic lands
< 1567879348 714836 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1567879352 947207 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know.
< 1567879354 682804 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"silver-bordered land" right
< 1567879364 388255 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, M:tG is full of ambiguous words
< 1567879421 55073 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, there are non-basic silver-bordered lands, including that one that makes one and a half mana of any color, which got way overpowered since mana burn got eliminated
< 1567879441 566629 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's called City of Ass
< 1567879506 514254 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Contraptions do not have the same border as other cards
< 1567879544 662532 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, they're stupid borderless cards
< 1567879578 476546 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Germany has 16 states. The German name is "Land".
< 1567879602 763034 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're playing a limited game with 40-card decks, 16 is a natural number of lands to put in it (though 17 is probably better in practice).
< 1567879742 901103 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi b_jonas
< 1567880041 313893 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathematical Study {2U} Enchantment ;; {1}, {T}: Chose a number and then reveal the top card of target player's library. If it is a nonland card with converted mana cost equal to the chosen number, add one mana of any color to your mana pool and then you may cast that card. This ability can be used only during your own main phase. ;; Echo {1}
< 1567880635 37831 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: https://github.com/lykaina/echidna
< 1567880658 802528 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you said to remind you
< 1567881015 996789 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Noon Mark {1} Artifact ;; {T}, Sacrifice ~: Add one mana of any color. Can't be used during combat phase. ;; {2}, {T}, Sacrifice ~: Draw a card
< 1567881026 874722 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is your comment of these made up cards?
< 1567881285 679033 :polomukuyu!~polomukuy@41.215.132.180 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1567882040 735350 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Mind Stone
< 1567882041 695132 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mind Stone \ 2 \ Artifact \ {T}: Add {C}. \ {1}, {T}, Sacrifice Mind Stone: Draw a card. \ WL-C, 10E-U, C14-U, C15-U, IMA-C, DD2-U, DDP-U
< 1567882055 244675 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1567882178 690899 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Noon Mark => I can't judge that one, it needs an experienced M:tG developer to tell if it's overpowered, it's the so4rt that can be either broken or useless as far as I know
< 1567882265 205656 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathematical Study => at least make it "Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery." unless you have a good reason to want to allow it activated in the controller's main phase but with non-empty stack
< 1567882322 575565 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but after that, I don't think I like the main function of allowing to cast a card from another player's library. it's something that probably has to exist but be so rare that I never meet them
< 1567882346 423 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't know if it's even right to have it as blue rather than red
< 1567882351 892733 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be confusing if it's a creature
< 1567882369 397942 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or other permanent
< 1567882396 81966 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I don't think so. then you'll just control a creature owned by the opponent, which is normal as far as blue goes
< 1567882423 334813 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but normal in red too, and I don't know which color this one has to be
< 1567882437 375488 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's more confusing while it's on the stack
< 1567882471 916335 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because owning a different player's spell on stack can happen, but it's very rare
< 1567882634 534911 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567882699 611043 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm not sure why black doesn't get any creature stealing
< 1567882706 686293 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do they get some?
< 1567882735 560823 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: may i pm you?
< 1567882738 907279 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Enslave
< 1567882739 763633 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enslave \ 4BB \ Enchantment -- Aura \ Enchant creature \ You control enchanted creature. \ At the beginning of your upkeep, enchanted creature deals 1 damage to its owner. \ PLC-U, NPH-U, DDD-U \ \ Enslaved Dwarf \ R \ Creature -- Dwarf \ 1/1 \ {R}, Sacrifice Enslaved Dwarf: Target black creature gets +1/+0 and gains first strike until end of turn. \ TOR-C \ \ Enslaved Horror \ 3B \ Creature -- Horror \ 4/4 \ When Enslaved Horror enters the battlefield,
< 1567882751 830818 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: you can pm, but it won't make me look at the interpreter faster
< 1567882760 232687 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1567882764 539732 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Mark of the Oni
< 1567882765 502214 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mark of the Oni \ 2B \ Enchantment -- Aura \ Enchant creature \ You control enchanted creature. \ At the beginning of the end step, if you control no Demons, sacrifice Mark of the Oni. \ BOK-U
< 1567882770 101638 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :you weren't responding
< 1567882773 189362 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry
< 1567882785 710680 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will look at the interpreter, I'm curious now
< 1567882811 848612 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so black does get a few
< 1567883004 552248 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the current OotS story arc, if Durkon was broken while petrified, how difficult would it have been to fix it? could they have found a cleric that can fix him with a Make Whole spell?
< 1567883027 118848 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't tell if the Make Whole spell works for that, and if not, how else you repair a broken statue before reanimating
< 1567883209 536035 :MDude!~MDude@76.5.108.106 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
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< 1567883812 11544 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qgdfctcwfvubxhsg QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1567884586 407314 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-084-063-063-063.084.063.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567884979 632270 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xuyclhxtwdjynses JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567885433 409178 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: how does the subroutine memory work? the documentation doesn't really explain it.
< 1567885453 517831 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: apparently the if/while blocks have labels. what happens when you don't nest them properly? is that allowed?
< 1567885951 578079 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: it probably doesn't matter while you only have one source file, but why do you define the global variables in the .h header file?
< 1567886329 155335 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Land Competence {-} Conspiracy ;; At the beginning of your upkeep, you may change the text of target permanent you own by replacing all instances of one land type word with another until end of turn.
< 1567886799 546967 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: also I find it strange how you keep seeking the program source code at every instruction
< 1567887012 957657 :LBPHacker!lbphacker@trigraph.net NICK :LBPHacker_
< 1567887594 654426 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1567887877 153577 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: also, I think srand((unsigned ing)(clock()%65536)); is sort of a bad idea, but that only matters if you use the random state later
< 1567888050 344880 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: whoa, the findand function is even worse. it will search for the function all around the program, and seek five times for every byte of the program until the start of the subroutine
< 1567888059 784349 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that really seems excessive
< 1567888383 198797 :LBPHacker_!lbphacker@trigraph.net NICK :LBPHacker
< 1567888407 188379 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why don't you just read the whole program at the start, find all the subroutine labels, store them and their offsets in the program, sort them, and look up the label in the sorted table on subroutine calls?
< 1567888432 629878 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then read instructions from the copy of the program that is loaded in memory, rather than fseek before every instruction
< 1567888678 360092 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I should think that would be better
< 1567889054 434212 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah, good idea. Lykaina: ask zzo38, he writes C programs in a style that's alien to me but may be closer to the style that you wrote here
< 1567889063 322845 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: look at the interpreteR?
< 1567889086 546776 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in the git repository at https://github.com/lykaina/echidna
< 1567889145 471539 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I will look
< 1567889258 840667 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567889258 917736 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded
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< 1567889353 321975 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably it would be better to instead read the file into memory and convert into a binary code while reading it, so that it can skip comments and so on. Many other things are also rather inefficient
< 1567889359 685605 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1567889393 288381 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: perhaps, but the S instruction makes that a bit hard
< 1567889402 152642 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1567889416 897542 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1567889477 476209 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567889493 210696 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reading it into memory without conversion would be another way.
< 1567889723 487061 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1567891513 838420 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: do you know (without testing) what -1 ** infinity is in IEEE floating point?
< 1567891614 968221 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: my guess is that it's a NaN, inherited from log(-1)
< 1567891625 104653 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, you asked shachaf
< 1567891625 845714 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry
< 1567891647 917819 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait...
< 1567891652 736871 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's -(1 ** infinity) right?
< 1567891655 770633 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's -1
< 1567891669 98554 :Spexty!2e3bf952@46.59.249.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm guessing they mean (-1) ** infinity
< 1567891671 526465 :Spexty!2e3bf952@46.59.249.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but idk
< 1567891797 260143 :Spexty!2e3bf952@46.59.249.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i tested both on node.js but i'm not gonna spoil anything lol
< 1567891838 822786 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Is there a ** to begin with? I'd think exp(log(-1)*infinity), which becomes NaN?
< 1567891854 613000 :Spexty!2e3bf952@46.59.249.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm i tested them on python and i got different results lol
< 1567891863 606025 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The C standard may have some odd ideas about this too
< 1567891876 96213 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they want things like pow(-1,3) = -1)
< 1567891935 877142 :Spexty!2e3bf952@46.59.249.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf the python result is weird lol
< 1567891976 725647 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` set -e; gcc -Wall -O -fno-math-errno -std=c11 -o tmp/a.out -x c - <<<$'#include\n#include\n''int main(void) { double r = -pow(1.0, INFINITY); printf("r = %g,\n", r); return 0; }'; tmp/a.out
< 1567891978 62753 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :r = -1,
< 1567892017 749487 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, -(1 ** infinity) is -1
< 1567892024 828061 :Spexty!2e3bf952@46.59.249.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting, js says NaN on that one lol
< 1567892027 923596 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: uhm we want the - inside the pow
< 1567892044 40258 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (-1) ** (1/0)
< 1567892044 376199 :Spexty!2e3bf952@46.59.249.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :js says NaN on 1**infinity for some reason
< 1567892045 975360 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1.0
< 1567892046 642790 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: no we don't. if we had wanted it, kmc would have said that.
< 1567892051 576682 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it was a trick question.
< 1567892068 436668 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I'd hope it wasn't
< 1567892075 333978 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (-1) ** (-1/0)
< 1567892077 755540 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1.0
< 1567892148 697503 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` set -e; gcc -Wall -O -fno-math-errno -std=c11 -o tmp/a.out -lm -x c - <<<$'#include\n#include\n''int main(void) { double r = -pow(1.0, INFINITY); printf("-1**INFINITY = %e,\n", r); return 0; }'; tmp/a.out
< 1567892150 121100 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :-1**INFINITY = -1.000000e+00,
< 1567892169 528108 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, apparently, pow(1,x) is specified as 1.
< 1567892195 764771 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :In C, which will infect a ton of programming languages.
< 1567892248 155127 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1567892257 350509 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :fell asleep sorry
< 1567892334 873669 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: np, I waited a day to reply too after all, so you're not late
< 1567892362 689558 :Spexty!2e3bf952@46.59.249.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> -(1 ** (1/0))
< 1567892365 209393 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : -1.0
< 1567892382 459016 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` set -e; gcc -Wall -O -fno-math-errno -std=c11 -o tmp/a.out -lm -x c - <<<$'#include\n#include\n''int main(void) { double r0 = atan2(-1.0, 1.0/INFINITY), r1 = atan2(-1.0, -1.0/INFINITY); printf("atan2(-1.0,0.0) = %e, r = %e\n", r0, r1); return 0; }'; tmp/a.out
< 1567892383 841872 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :atan2(-1.0,0.0) = -1.570796e+00, r = -1.570796e+00
< 1567892391 169799 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` set -e; gcc -Wall -O -fno-math-errno -std=c11 -o tmp/a.out -lm -x c - <<<$'#include\n#include\n''int main(void) { double r0 = atan2(-1.0, 1.0/INFINITY), r1 = atan2(-1.0, -1.0/INFINITY); printf("atan2(-1.0,0.0) = %e, atan2(-1.0,-0.0) = %e\n", r0, r1); return 0; }'; tmp/a.out
< 1567892392 562474 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :atan2(-1.0,0.0) = -1.570796e+00, atan2(-1.0,-0.0) = -1.570796e+00
< 1567892408 334045 :Spexty!2e3bf952@46.59.249.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1567892472 92912 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, that's not where the branch cut is
< 1567892509 386838 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I don't.
< 1567892520 726579 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` set -e; gcc -Wall -O -fno-math-errno -std=c11 -o tmp/a.out -lm -x c - <<<$'#include\n#include\n''int main(void) { double r0 = atan2(1.0/INFINITY, -1.0), r1 = atan2(-1.0/INFINITY, -1.0); printf("atan2(0.0, -1.0) = %e, atan2(-0.0, -1.0) = %e\n", r0, r1); return 0; }'; tmp/a.out
< 1567892525 131174 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :atan2(0.0, -1.0) = 3.141593e+00, atan2(-0.0, -1.0) = -3.141593e+00
< 1567892525 881177 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's where the branch cut is
< 1567892948 453649 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the main problems with my interpreter is that it only works when everything is formatted perfectly.
< 1567892997 302147 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :arranged, not formatted
< 1567893015 813807 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: do you mean like the labels for the loops and conditionals?
< 1567893021 466409 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1567893302 450996 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :another problem is that i am limited by my programmimg skill
< 1567893425 490306 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason for main.h is that i reused a lot of code from an earlier attempt at this, one which foolishly used 4 .c files
< 1567893445 505434 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 4 .h files
< 1567893474 503135 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: it's not a problem to use multiple c files, I only said that you shouldn't define the global variables in the header, because if you include the header multiple times, you'll get multiple copies of those variables that way
< 1567893481 910799 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that or an error
< 1567893494 878900 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1567893504 672038 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :only declare the global variables in the header file if you want to use it in multiple c files, and define each of them in a single c files
< 1567893526 920641 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :declare global variables by using the `extern` keyword, and without an initializer
< 1567893566 946299 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :define the global variable without the `extern` keyword or any other storage class modifier keyword
< 1567893661 98565 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouls i just move everything into main.c?
< 1567893672 482530 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1567893721 311356 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can if you want in a small program like this, but you should probably know how multiple compilation units work in C in case you want to write more C programs in the future
< 1567893742 878258 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that the `extern` keyword works differently on variable declarations and on functions declarations
< 1567893750 464967 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on function declarations, it basically does nothing)
< 1567893774 38789 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit confusing, but it's way too late to change that part of C
< 1567894022 64711 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :that IEEE talk above reminds me about how many languages know that x mod 0 is x
< 1567894116 487734 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot which ones again, even
< 1567894286 616659 :adu!~ajr@pool-173-73-86-191.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567894377 161246 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1567894399 455758 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :check the repo again
< 1567894461 611094 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567894586 788790 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: now you have just one source file, no header, but no other changes. so no annoyance with the global variables now.
< 1567894613 998357 :GeekDude!~G33kDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.4
< 1567894822 504629 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-084-063-063-063.084.063.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1567894929 784049 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree that findiw and findand are pretty badly done
< 1567895127 694011 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :crap
< 1567895276 871202 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :the S op, the one that allows the "Hello World" program i wrote to work...it may need to go. probably replace it with an external data file lookup
< 1567895338 74627 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :for readiw and readand to work, the program file can't contain extra data
< 1567895368 431562 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: maybe change it so that instead of being able to read from anywhere in the source file, it can only read from sections that are specially marked for that, and have a label, and for reading you specify the label and an offset into the data block after that label?
< 1567895440 20735 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that, or just allow to initialize parts of the memory with data in the program source code, and then just use ordinary memory reads
< 1567895460 272699 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still asking how the subroutine memory thing works by the way
< 1567895503 202108 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :what part do you want to know about? i lost the question
< 1567895527 213275 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I understand correctly, the top 4 kilobytes of the memory are for global variables, and mapped straigth to addresses
< 1567895537 814614 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for the memory before that, there's some special magic address translation or something
< 1567895540 803100 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that work?
< 1567895585 664995 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking
< 1567895644 904870 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-084-063-063-063.084.063.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567895669 537151 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it like a data stack, with the memory reference automatically offset by the stack pointer or something?
< 1567895832 551664 :GeekDude!~G33kDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567895851 848028 :unlimiter!~unlimiter@105.157.22.201 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567895893 519301 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I don't understand that address translation and why you're doing it that way
< 1567895900 802193 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at the ops '&','-','N'
< 1567895923 297466 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how they interact
< 1567895926 864615 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks as if it allows you to look at only the current stack frame, not stack frames below it
< 1567895955 495449 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you supposed to pass arguments to function calls through globals then?
< 1567895956 311967 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :what stack?
< 1567895957 744020 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's weird
< 1567895973 334179 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there's also no stack, but basically
< 1567895986 312125 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's my first working attempt
< 1567895987 759212 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like you can only use one fixed part of that memory within a subroutine
< 1567896008 854500 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least directly
< 1567896014 266248 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily indirect addressing lets you bypass it
< 1567896022 167218 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I still don't understand why you do this address translation at all
< 1567896064 754877 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you look at doc/examples/rand_0-99.txt
< 1567896066 649041 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1567896079 446787 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1567896106 109425 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an example of subroutine usage there
< 1567896266 231245 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an elaborate use of jumps
< 1567896277 938369 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :and labels
< 1567896309 390374 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: it looks like the RAND subroutine tries to make two formatted random digits, storing them to @F001 and @F000 or something
< 1567896339 768253 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, from the same number
< 1567896469 488477 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i wanted to use the &RAND sub in another location, i'd use a different mask number
< 1567896510 149186 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :each sub invocation has to have a unique mask number, from 01 to ef
< 1567896551 355086 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :main uses 00
< 1567896644 742933 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can only make a sub call 239 times max
< 1567896663 746926 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this making sense?
< 1567896683 402232 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to me
< 1567896704 319919 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand that the subroutine call instruction sets a fixed base address,
< 1567896761 21437 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then the memory reads in the subroutine, except for indirect ones, will read only from the stack frame at that address or from the global memory area, and the
< 1567896777 896343 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :stack frames can't overlap because they're all 256 long and start at offsets that are multiples of 256-word pages
< 1567896792 222976 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1567896795 45512 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't get why this is useful
< 1567896800 38311 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1567896817 474410 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567896818 498378 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do also understand that the memory in those stack frames is preserved
< 1567896828 219504 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that you can call subroutines at the same stack frame
< 1567896834 544436 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what's the point of the whole thing?
< 1567896871 833808 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly, it seemed like a good idea at the time, but it's probably not
< 1567896957 818138 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1567896967 607567 :imode2!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567897007 878902 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to add the equivalent of a K op during a sub call, at the least
< 1567897086 840210 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :(clearing the memory)
< 1567897123 497620 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1567897172 109347 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :and somehow have the ranges automatically assigned based on position on a stack
< 1567897228 83309 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of having the code define the ranges
< 1567897285 14352 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that sound better?
< 1567897343 270320 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. would you be able to choose the size of the stack frame, like in the subroutine defintion, and access the stack frames below from the subroutine?
< 1567897381 489982 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does "stack frame" mean?
< 1567897409 309130 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stack frame is the part of the memory that a subroutine uses for its own purposes
< 1567897417 619098 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's where it puts its local variables
< 1567897481 818239 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :always should be 512 bytes (256 addresses)
< 1567897496 399239 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may also contain a few other things that help for subroutine linkage, such as the size of the stack frame or a pointer to the previous stack frame to allow to reset the stack pointer when the subroutine exits, and a return address which points into the code for where the subroutine was called from, but you may store those separately in an interpreter like this
< 1567897532 183864 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: hmm. but even if it's always 256 words, you should probably allow accessing the stack frames below, to make it easier to pass function call parameters
< 1567897539 513558 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the other frames can only be accessed indirectly
< 1567897572 57115 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that a subroutine doesn't have to copy them from global memory area or access them with an indirect access (the latter would be hard unless you at least add a way to get the stack pointer)
< 1567897603 922623 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have call parameters at the moment
< 1567897635 682176 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I do understand
< 1567897658 273324 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you should consider to change them if you want to change how that memory accessworks
< 1567897739 456088 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll try something tonight and push it if it works
< 1567898002 612440 :imode2!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1567898135 253472 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :should i move the srand to set the seed whenever a random number is requested?
< 1567898152 701003 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that would help much
< 1567898479 33801 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsigned char submask[SUBMASKSIZE]; // i think that's a proto-stack
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< 1567899673 856450 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:1d0b:a678:27f6:f1b4 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1567900963 938899 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: how about 239 subs, named 01,02...EE,EF ?
< 1567901015 741489 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, easier to make a stack with
< 1567901835 994652 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` printf %s 11101001011110101100010111111100 | crc32 /dev/stdin
< 1567901837 197691 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :badc0c0a
< 1567902027 791741 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1567902051 393624 :imode2!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567902475 3558 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It was a fun little exercise: start with a desired CRC32 value, then compute that string of 0s and 1s)
< 1567902524 544498 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And don't use brute force; that's feasible, but boring. :)
< 1567902590 864446 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why crc32 is not a cryptographic hash
< 1567902653 956236 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor CRC64, nor CRC128 if that exists.
< 1567902702 740053 :imode2!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1567903064 485209 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, not yet in repo, but the subroutines are literally named 01 through EF now
< 1567903298 53532 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it's in the repo
< 1567903828 12188 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: there's an IOCCC entry that modifies a file so that it contains its crc checksum formatted to text, I think
< 1567903842 593536 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, it's linear
< 1567903954 502364 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: I don't see why that would be better that just using absolute addresses inside those subroutines. the point of a stack would be that (a) it would let you use less memory than you need for all subs, (b) pass arguments so you can call the same subroutine from multiple call sites easily, (c) allow recursion. you might not care about all of that, in which case you just put the local variables of
< 1567903960 507810 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :each of the subroutines to separate memory areas
< 1567904022 521057 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even then my main complaint is that since your interpreter restricts memory access to the other parts of the memory, it's hard to pass arguments or return values to other subroutines, you have to use the global variables for it, in which case why do you not just put everything in global variables and get rid of the address translation instead?
< 1567904055 745572 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: however, if you want to limit the names of the subroutines to make storing the table of their code addresses simpler, that I could understand, but it is sort of restrictive
< 1567904071 314116 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :would just force the bookkeeping on the programmer
< 1567904122 691454 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I don't know what you want to do with the interpreter, and you'll have to decide that
< 1567904129 9319 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll get rid of the address translation and make everything global
< 1567904140 235646 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: right, it's a linear checksum, so brute force is way overkill
< 1567904399 21340 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :linear reminds me, https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=940327
< 1567904645 245245 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one is also a problem that's linear over the GF(2) field, you may try to solve it
< 1567904664 565761 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: better?
< 1567904677 44918 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb gotta eat
< 1567904799 441766 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ^ puzzle thingy, you might be interested as well
< 1567904850 531551 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: what is better?
< 1567904951 974838 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So according to the musl people, there's pretty much no cross-libc ABI.
< 1567904976 152228 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you compile your program with musl's crt.o it'll work with musl's ld.so/libc, and the same for glibc.
< 1567904983 387168 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This seems like a bizarro situation to me.
< 1567905008 80742 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely there *is* a de facto ABI, which is whatever programs compiled with gcc and its crt.o do.
< 1567905027 460559 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1567905038 276324 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there are a lot of compatiblity issues across even versions of glibc, so who knows what that means.
< 1567905051 767132 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567905069 751202 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In practice I need to emulate what glibc's crt.o does, I guess. Which is calling __libc_start_main with rdx as an argument.
< 1567905100 555976 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that Go *doesn't* call libc_start_main, so maybe Go programs only work by accident, since libc doesn't get to do its initialization in the usual way.
< 1567905338 78184 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's odd.
< 1567905368 277719 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know there's definitely a nonzero amount of things that go wrong if you write a program that just starts at _start but still links with (g)libc and calls into it.
< 1567905375 82577 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember specific examples, but there were some.
< 1567905412 124356 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xuyclhxtwdjynses QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1567905434 20807 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"like exposing the list of TLS-providing modules, synchronizing changes to it, providing dl_iterate_phdr (access to unwind information for all libraries present), providing dlopen/dlsym/etc,"
< 1567905610 806957 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: git commit -a -m "Removed a broken local addressing scheme."
< 1567905769 63305 :adu!~ajr@pool-173-73-86-191.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: adu
< 1567906052 615232 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go was in the top 10 (just barely, on spot 10) in the IEEE Spectrum's 2019 programming language popularity contest update.
< 1567906157 602374 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:103d:4f2b:fe34:4ae1 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567906295 849408 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:1d0b:a678:27f6:f1b4 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1567906403 465155 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I was happier about go when I didn't know that it resorted to reflection for elementary things like sorting.
< 1567906500 645178 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: You can also use code generation.
< 1567906534 868259 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay. C++ templates but without official language support.
< 1567906548 149799 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grwp negativ
< 1567906549 176934 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :absolute value:The absolute value of a number, also known as its cosign, is its distance from zero regardless of direction. It shouldn't be negative, but Sgeo is trying to break maths.
< 1567906554 5892 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there is some official language support?
< 1567906606 691 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like Sgeo
< 1567906607 245186 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there now? I thought not... I thought it was some kind of 3rd party preprocessor. Maybe I'm wrong.
< 1567906659 609266 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's something called "go generate".
< 1567906666 669402 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that's official tool support, not language support.
< 1567906711 919520 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Generate runs commands described by directives within existing files.'
< 1567906782 13506 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd use Go except I don't want garbage collection.
< 1567906841 511767 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :is go an esolang?
< 1567906858 457199 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh.
< 1567906880 139155 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you write it?
< 1567906884 478794 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: surprisingly we often end up discussing mainstream languages here as well.
< 1567906893 878038 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1567906901 749204 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Google's language called "Go".
< 1567907013 188760 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you learn programming in 6502 or in Glulx at all? Or some other one?
< 1567907045 839788 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, Sgeo and I used to play Go between classes at uni.
< 1567907077 785355 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think assemblers should generate instructions like "mov $60, %eax" when you type "mov $60, %rax"?
< 1567907096 784395 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bytes generated are already ambiguous and the assembler has to pick an encoding.
< 1567907147 687194 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is there an observable difference between moving a 32-bit immediate into eax and rax?
< 1567907183 352591 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know a lot about modern x86 assembly
< 1567907198 396766 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I don't know what the encoding is.
< 1567907216 332218 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'd be worried about operand size mismatches and resulting pipeline stalls, but I don't know whether that worry is justified.
< 1567907246 704290 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, what do you mean?
< 1567907307 300442 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least in 6502, the standard syntax does not have a difference for zero page or absolute, I think, and that affects the operand size and the speed too. But NESASM/MagicKit requires < to indicate zero page addressing, which I think is better than the standard syntax.
< 1567907327 106384 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: If you load eax and then use rax, does that confuse the processor? Or doesn't it because it always deals with the whole 64 bit register anyway?
< 1567907386 585949 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I recall that loading ax and then using eax caused pipeline stalls in earlier processors. Of course there the story was different; loading ax would preserve the top half of eax.
< 1567907388 641007 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. You're thinking maybe something just looks at the instruction operand size and not the effect of the instruction.
< 1567907425 77412 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think loading 32-bit immediates into 64-bit registers is such a common idiom that I'd be surprised. But maybe there are effects in other cases.
< 1567907436 804041 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think modern x86 is too confusing, and that MMIX is better.
< 1567907441 413276 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, loading ax *still* preserves the top 3/4 of rax, I found out in here the other day.
< 1567907457 131888 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'd happily use a MMIX processor if you sent me one in the mail.
< 1567907502 699152 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yeah it's probably fine... the fact that loading a 32 bit register clears the upper half cures the reason for those stalls (namely, that outputs of two instructions would potentially have to be merged).
< 1567907513 801851 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Old x86 also is less messy than modern x86, I think.)
< 1567907528 713173 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` llvm-mc
< 1567907530 21170 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :/hackenv/bin/`: line 5: llvm-mc: command not found
< 1567907621 888875 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does HackEso have a convenient way to type instructions and see what they assemble to, or type machine code and see what it disassembles to?
< 1567907633 959910 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :gtg
< 1567907664 950890 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :before i accidently say something someone doesn't want me to
< 1567907670 2211 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1567907689 25476 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Anyway. I don't know. For $60 I'd hope for a mov imm8, r/m64 operation, I think, and then realize that that doesn't exist, then spend the rest of the day wondering why that is.
< 1567907772 93380 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh boy. You're using Intel names with AT&T order.
< 1567907807 207328 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :More productively, what do existing compilers/assemblers (llvm, gcc, as) do the processor software optimization manuals have anything to say on that?
< 1567907872 212989 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, nice contraction. s/do the/do, and what do/
< 1567907901 73223 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I have no excuse, but the fact that an immediate was involved saves me :P
< 1567908046 940070 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo 'int foo() { return 60; }' | gcc -O2 -c -x c -o /tmp/test.o - && objdump -d /tmp/test.o | grep -P '^ *\d+:'
< 1567908049 617959 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0: b8 3c 00 00 00 mov $0x3c,%eax \ 5: c3 retq
< 1567908150 411027 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm looking at the Intel optimization guide.
< 1567908156 376370 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"12.2.2 Use Extra Registers to Reduce Register Pressure"
< 1567908158 410230 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thintel.
< 1567908172 348678 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEEP
< 1567908220 831668 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@sorunome.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't sparc attempt to solve register pressure by doing the opposite?
< 1567908247 152493 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@sorunome.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I guess register windows give you extra registers, but they're windowed
< 1567908267 114096 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Note that in Intel 64 architecture, an update to the lower 32 bits of a 64 bit integer register is architecturally defined to zero extend the upper 32 bits. While this action may be logically viewed as a 32 bit update, it is really a 64 bit update (and therefore does not cause a partial stall)."
< 1567908583 916996 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Hmm, x86 has "ADD r/m64, imm8"
< 1567908589 986130 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I probably knew but forgot about.
< 1567908599 379291 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes your complaint more justified.
< 1567908604 417896 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :By complaint I mean wonder.
< 1567908656 266601 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes, it has that for all arithmetic operations, but not for loads.
< 1567908694 500330 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it has an push imm8 as well.
< 1567908704 91664 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/an/a/
< 1567908756 137826 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's an odd.
< 1567908776 421390 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Often you can get by with the arithmetic ones, as long as you have a known starting point.
< 1567908782 785922 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo 'mov $60, %eax' | as -o /tmp/test.o - && objdump -d /tmp/test.o | grep -P '^ *\d+:'
< 1567908783 939091 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0: b8 3c 00 00 00 mov $0x3c,%eax
< 1567908786 626640 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo 'xor %eax, %eax; or $60, %eax' | as -o /tmp/test.o - && objdump -d /tmp/test.o | grep -P '^ *\d+:'
< 1567908787 632654 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0: 31 c0 xor %eax,%eax \ 2: 83 c8 3c or $0x3c,%eax
< 1567908791 829111 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well.
< 1567908820 743280 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: so ironically, xor rax,rax; add rax,60 is 5 bytes, one byte shorter than the mov eax,60 you'd envision. ... right, just like that
< 1567908857 325729 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for a 64bit target)
< 1567908906 550965 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean the one with the rex prefix? Because it's the same size otherwise.
< 1567908922 764408 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(As seen just above.)
< 1567908928 40168 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo 'xor %rax, %rax; or $60, %eax' | as -o /tmp/test.o - && objdump -d /tmp/test.o | grep -P '^ *\d+:' | sed 's/^[^\t]*\t//; s/ *\t/: /g'
< 1567908929 180275 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :48 31 c0: xor %rax,%rax \ 83 c8 3c: or $0x3c,%eax
< 1567908937 2979 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm.
< 1567908962 807766 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right, I made a wrong assumption about how 64 bit mode would work.
< 1567909034 880634 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`mkx bin/as-encoding//echo "$1" | as -o /tmp/out.o - && objdump -d /tmp/out.o | grep -P '^ *\d+:' | sed 's/^[^\t]*\t//; s/ *\t/: /g'
< 1567909036 714496 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/as-encoding
< 1567909043 914097 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`as-encoding mov %rax, %rbx
< 1567909044 824570 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :48 89 c3: mov %rax,%rbx
< 1567909058 474836 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, \d is wrong, isn't it.
< 1567909079 869897 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`mkx bin/as-encoding//echo "$1" | as -o /tmp/out.o - && objdump -d /tmp/out.o | grep -P '^ *[0-9a-f]+:' | sed 's/^[^\t]*\t//; s/ *\t/: /g'
< 1567909085 287623 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/as-encoding
< 1567909136 483742 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`as-encoding mov (%rbp), %rdi
< 1567909137 388198 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :48 8b 7d 00: mov 0x0(%rbp),%rdi
< 1567909165 78098 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`asm mov eax, 60
< 1567909166 92212 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :0: b8 3c 00 00 00 mov eax,0x3c
< 1567909168 871654 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was that one already.
< 1567909176 542078 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an intel variant, though.
< 1567909177 456270 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`as-encoding mov (%r13), %rdi
< 1567909178 444477 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :49 8b 7d 00: mov 0x0(%r13),%rdi
< 1567909185 158426 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that one's probably better.
< 1567909191 255492 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did ask!
< 1567909192 80521 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/asm
< 1567909192 499736 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`asm mov rax, 60
< 1567909192 754691 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/sh \ echo "$1" > /tmp/asm.s; for o in ',' '-msyntax=intel -mnaked-reg,-M intel'; do if as ${o%,*} /tmp/asm.s -o /tmp/asm.o 2>>/tmp/asm.err; then objdump ${o#*,} -d --insn-width=20 /tmp/asm.o | sed -e "1,/0000000000000000/d" | perl -pe 'if (/^\s*(\w+:)\s*((?:\w\w )+)\s*(\S.*)$/) { ($a,$b,$c) = ($1,$2,$3); $_ = "$a $b ".($c =~ s/\s+/ /rg)."\n"; }'; exit; fi; done; cat /tmp/asm.err
< 1567909193 516794 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :0: 48 c7 c0 3c 00 00 00 mov rax,0x3c
< 1567909217 377901 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`asm mov rdi, [r13]; mov rdi, [r15]
< 1567909220 871066 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :0: 49 8b 7d 00 mov rdi,QWORD PTR [r13+0x0] \ 4: 49 8b 3f mov rdi,QWORD PTR [r15]
< 1567909250 169941 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`asm mov rax, 6061626364656667h
< 1567909251 215962 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :/tmp/asm.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: too many memory references for `mov' \ /tmp/asm.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: junk `h' after expression
< 1567909260 735994 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`asm mov rax, 0x6061626364656667
< 1567909261 865782 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :0: 48 b8 67 66 65 64 63 62 61 60 movabs rax,0x6061626364656667
< 1567909297 865977 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is `asm` based on `nasm`?
< 1567909307 103751 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's still as.
< 1567909333 372647 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`asm mov $60, %rax
< 1567909334 740630 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :0: 48 c7 c0 3c 00 00 00 mov $0x3c,%rax
< 1567909335 409147 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, looks like it guesses.
< 1567909343 850492 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh boy, it tries both syntaxes.
< 1567909353 924175 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :An assembler with a conditional? as if!
< 1567909369 887872 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It tries as + objdump without options, and if that fails it tries "-msyntax=intel -mnaked-reg" for as and "-M intel" for objdump.
< 1567909374 303873 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's kind of clever.
< 1567909421 374920 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`asm movb $60, 60
< 1567909422 260846 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :0: c6 04 25 3c 00 00 00 3c movb $0x3c,0x3c
< 1567909443 488318 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :now wth is that c7 c0 instruction.
< 1567909486 360751 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :C7 /0 MOV r/m32, imm32
< 1567909492 233245 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :MOV r/m64, imm32?
< 1567909494 102419 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`asm movd $60, (%rsi)
< 1567909495 101192 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :/tmp/asm.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: operand size mismatch for `movd' \ /tmp/asm.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: operand size mismatch for `movd'
< 1567909513 358821 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`asm movq $60, (%rsi)
< 1567909514 308187 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :0: 48 c7 06 3c 00 00 00 movq $0x3c,(%rsi)
< 1567909521 476039 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1567909532 463274 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cwlprits bin/asm
< 1567909534 364030 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1567909537 701169 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh
< 1567909540 370003 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits bin/asm
< 1567909542 123485 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzïe fizzïe fizzïe fizzïe fizzïe fizzïe fizzïe fizzïe fizzïe fizzïe shachäf shachäf ais52̈3 shachäf shachäf ais52̈3 ais52̈3 ais52̈3 ais52̈3 ais52̈3 ais52̈3 ais52̈3 ais52̈3 ais52̈3 Gregör Gregör
< 1567909556 225184 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you add a feature where it prints the encoding in octal?
< 1567909597 753632 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that'd be handy for the ModR/M byte.
< 1567909611 865184 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not going to start doing that right now though.
< 1567909636 772203 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's handy for a bunch of other things too.
< 1567909667 197125 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything that names a register, for instance.
< 1567909668 109762 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`asm movq $0x6061626364656667, (%rsi)
< 1567909669 88610 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :0: 48 89 34 25 00 00 00 00 mov QWORD PTR ds:0x0,rsi
< 1567909695 936669 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`asm movq $6061626364656667, (%rsi)
< 1567909697 40966 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :0: 48 89 34 25 00 00 00 00 mov QWORD PTR ds:0x0,rsi
< 1567909722 841715 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's confusing.
< 1567909732 366237 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's confusing because it's treating it as Intel syntax.
< 1567909760 314051 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And treating the $ as part of a symbol?
< 1567909764 495254 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it fails as AT&T syntax because the only instruction with a 64-bit immediate is mov r64, imm64
< 1567909764 685983 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`asm movq [rsi], 0x6061626364656667
< 1567909765 552318 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :/tmp/asm.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: invalid char '[' beginning operand 1 `[rsi]' \ /tmp/asm.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: operand size mismatch for `movq'
< 1567909769 341796 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1567909782 170159 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's unfortunate.
< 1567909792 236745 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`as-encoding movq $6061626364656667, (%rsi)
< 1567909793 135692 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :{standard input}: Assembler messages: \ {standard input}:1: Error: operand size mismatch for `movq'
< 1567909808 17861 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough
< 1567909824 123381 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's kind of an issue with all these "just try all the ways" things, there's a similar thing with the C one that tries with and without a main wrapper.
< 1567909827 587025 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`asm mov eax, 60; mov rax, 60
< 1567909829 871850 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :0: b8 3c 00 00 00 mov eax,0x3c \ 5: 48 c7 c0 3c 00 00 00 mov rax,0x3c
< 1567909831 865607 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, why *is* that second one REX.W + C7 /0, and not REX.W + B8+ rd?
< 1567909849 330902 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, because that's the imm64.
< 1567909856 794880 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1567909858 789550 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's shorter this way
< 1567909876 373089 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a nice and orthogonal instruction set.
< 1567909894 263666 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've forgotten what /0 means.
< 1567909898 750369 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's a thing of pure beauty.
< 1567909900 824805 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it the reg part of the modr/m byte?
< 1567909921 459546 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1567909926 232854 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, /0 puts something in the mod r/m byte
< 1567909939 117964 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've also forgotten what rd means.
< 1567909978 392500 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :destination register?
< 1567909983 333177 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno.
< 1567909986 43973 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's "+rd", means adding a register code for a doubleword register to the byte on the left.
< 1567910005 956158 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The pages just seem to format it with the + closer to the byte it gets added to.
< 1567910014 641926 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But B8...BF are all mov rd, imm32 instructions
< 1567910049 54194 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do they say "REX.W +"?
< 1567910058 266281 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`asm inc rax
< 1567910059 327430 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :0: 48 ff c0 inc rax
< 1567910062 188588 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and "B0+ rb" makes B0 .. B7 ones that are r8, imm8 ones.
< 1567910079 713217 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is all way simpler in base 8, hth.
< 1567910081 620639 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not strictly imm8. But the "d" is for size, not for "destination".
< 1567910106 133126 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They say "REX.W +" because it was the 64-bit variant, which needs the REX prefix with the W bit set.
< 1567910109 176396 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah I got that a moment too late
< 1567910120 151169 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the + just means concatenation there?
< 1567910129 260196 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1567910135 674582 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or does it mean you add (or) the other REX bits or something
< 1567910136 721342 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1567910137 780943 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK.
< 1567910139 236931 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The + that means "add to the value" is typeset slightly differently.
< 1567910144 674182 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1567910148 360993 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was looking at https://www.felixcloutier.com/x86/mov
< 1567910179 222309 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, by "typeset" I really meant the whitespacing, which they've accurately reproduced.
< 1567910186 748956 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The symbol itself looks the same.
< 1567910223 669164 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the spacing looks like "REX.W + B8+ rd" so you can arguably tell what kind of + it is.
< 1567910257 7728 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the space before the "rd" is a bit odd
< 1567910292 511206 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But e.g. https://www.felixcloutier.com/x86/jmp just says "REX.W FF"
< 1567910293 358755 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's odd especially because the interpretation guide says: "+rb, +rw, +rd, +ro".
< 1567910310 155176 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And so does the Intel manual, which I've now opened.)
< 1567910322 726506 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: My version of the Intel manual says "REX.W + FF /5".
< 1567910327 663962 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :For JMP m16:64, anyway.
< 1567910372 930314 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? Which version?
< 1567910375 695570 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :m16:64, hmm.
< 1567910379 567366 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://software.intel.com/sites/default/files/managed/39/c5/325462-sdm-vol-1-2abcd-3abcd.pdf PDF page 1072 says REX.W FF
< 1567910396 150887 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure where the version number is in this thing.
< 1567910435 59186 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what the REX.W means but I was confusil about the +.
< 1567910469 839366 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says "Order Number: 325462-041US" and "December 2011" on the first page.
< 1567910484 846943 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they have broken it somewhere between 2011 and 2019.
< 1567910533 904547 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although arguably the "+"-free version is more logical, because that's how concatenation works most of the time there.
< 1567910555 579902 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm the version that I downloaded in June says REX.W FF /5
< 1567910556 921727 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this manual still has +s for mov.
< 1567910615 32717 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect I downloaded the 2011 version in 2011, and have not updated it since then.
< 1567910624 99718 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the intel manuals often use illogical notation elsewhere too, in the pseudocode that describes instruction semantics
< 1567910635 251655 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for the mov it has, REX.W + B8+ rd io
< 1567910637 499175 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a confusing manual
< 1567910766 760520 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe a confusil manual
< 1567910771 488364 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a confus manual
< 1567910773 665806 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno
< 1567910890 682340 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was some specific overlong encoding which objdump represents using a pseudoregister eiz/riz to represent zero.
< 1567910898 562103 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`asm .byte 0x88, 0x04, 0xa0
< 1567910899 947467 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :0: 88 04 a0 mov %al,(%rax,%riz,4)
< 1567910922 138862 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ones with a SIB byte that specify the row that doesn't do any scaling.
< 1567910948 930296 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`asm .byte 0x88, 0x04, 0xe0
< 1567910949 876373 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :0: 88 04 e0 mov %al,(%rax,%riz,8)
< 1567910980 467117 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gives it a way to disambiguate, but I'm not sure how useful that is because I'm pretty sure there still some ambiguous cases where different bytes give the same text.
< 1567910984 655916 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION blinks
< 1567910997 321848 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a %riz?
< 1567911004 174073 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really.
< 1567911026 656270 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you explained it there.
< 1567911029 747377 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there's a SIB byte encoding for each of the scaling levels (1, 2, 4, 8) that doesn't actually add a scaled register.
< 1567911043 867387 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`asm .byte 0x88, 0x04, 0x20
< 1567911044 936845 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :0: 88 04 20 mov %al,(%rax,%riz,1)
< 1567911065 195108 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`asm .byte 0x88, 0x00
< 1567911066 469783 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :0: 88 00 mov %al,(%rax)
< 1567911070 408401 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567911111 282422 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: do they have that in 32 bit mode too?
< 1567911121 674007 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's just called %eiz.
< 1567911133 296701 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun.
< 1567911169 233094 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ndisasm shows both 88 04 20 and 88 00 as just `mov [rax], al`.
< 1567911261 298773 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very convenient that x86 has a 3-operand add.
< 1567911300 740411 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand:
< 1567911301 788499 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`asm .byte 0x88, 0xc2, 0x8a, 0xd0
< 1567911304 864143 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :0: 88 c2 mov %al,%dl \ 2: 8a d0 mov %al,%dl
< 1567911322 496890 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no disambiguating that thing.
< 1567911352 117965 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But maybe there was some more specific way of showing it with eiz/riz than simply making it look different.
< 1567911357 197000 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/way/reason/
< 1567911397 533307 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well, those encodings of mov dl, al have the same size
< 1567911438 785649 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And as I understood it, the %riz actually makes a difference (since it adds a SIB).
< 1567911447 3379 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@sorunome.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a service that lets you run short programs on lots of different x86 architectures/families?
< 1567911459 724749 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@sorunome.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be interesting to see if either encoding is uniformly faster
< 1567911476 636547 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, nitpick: "SIB = scaled index byte", so "SIB byte" is redundant.
< 1567911481 846416 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`asm .byte 0xb0, 0xff, 0xc6, 0xc0, 0xff
< 1567911485 382641 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :0: b0 ff mov $0xff,%al \ 2: c6 c0 ff mov $0xff,%al
< 1567911485 981926 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Those aren't the same size.
< 1567911503 690758 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`asm .byte 0110, 0146, 0213, 0364
< 1567911504 552547 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :0: 48 rex.W \ 1: 66 8b f4 mov %sp,%si
< 1567911512 124581 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hmm, good point.
< 1567911533 840918 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :does as even accept the riz stuff...
< 1567911540 969494 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`asm mov %al,(%rax,%riz,1)
< 1567911542 252731 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :/tmp/asm.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: bad register name `%riz' \ /tmp/asm.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: missing ')' \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: bad expression \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: junk `riz' after expression
< 1567911550 518482 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's not accepted on the input side.
< 1567911570 488220 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may just be an objdump peculiarity.
< 1567911578 437851 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should my assembler have different names for different register sizes?
< 1567911590 671179 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's another thing, why aren't these dump things ever round-trippable?
< 1567911617 80135 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your assembler/disassembler pair should have the property that (assemble . disassemble) is identity.
< 1567911642 479532 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't going to have a disassmller, which lets me sidestep this requirement.
< 1567911662 339303 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think the assembler should always use an unambiguous name for unusual encodings?
< 1567911673 895167 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it should add a footnote.
< 1567911687 399285 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or possibly a hover-tip.
< 1567911698 591646 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I was still in the disassembler mindset, sorry.
< 1567911717 289722 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that could apply to an assembler as well, if it reads in a footnote.
< 1567911734 656701 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( mov dl, al )
< 1567911767 766818 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`asm .byte 0213, 0303; .byte 0211, 0330
< 1567911768 925092 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :0: 8b c3 mov %ebx,%eax \ 2: 89 d8 mov %ebx,%eax
< 1567911788 89866 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, really I meant disassembler.
< 1567911802 260664 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a tricky question what a /sane/ syntax for this would look like.
< 1567911806 406979 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disassembling the above two the same way doesn't seem that bad to me.
< 1567911853 955030 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: `mov 𝔞𝔩, 𝕕𝕝` vs. `mov 𝕒𝕝, 𝔡𝔩`.
< 1567911856 506656 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a very niche case where you want to distinguish them. And different versions of an assembler could switch between encodings, so you'd be breaking some backwards compatibility by writing one of them out as nonstandard.
< 1567911862 32763 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :
< 1567911864 263208 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I see boxes :)
< 1567911878 855705 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that's not so bad, and it wouldn't actually break compatibility meaningfully to have a default.
< 1567911884 178436 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it'll work at http://esolangs.org/logs/2019-09-08.html#lif
< 1567911917 976249 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`asm .byte 0211, 0303; .byte 0213, 0330
< 1567911918 910254 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :0: 89 c3 mov %eax,%ebx \ 2: 8b d8 mov %eax,%ebx
< 1567911929 48027 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`asm mov %eax, %ebx
< 1567911929 988236 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :0: 89 c3 mov %eax,%ebx
< 1567911933 299454 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`asm mov ebx, eax
< 1567911934 376480 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :0: 89 c3 mov ebx,eax
< 1567911942 894127 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah it works in logs (I had made my way to tunes)
< 1567911947 928513 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I should use the 0x89 encoding.
< 1567911979 762234 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe just put appendices on the mnemonic... mov.mr and mov.rm
< 1567911984 737673 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I wonder if they settled on that just because 0x89 < 0x8b.
< 1567911987 421199 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567912014 485371 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, those are the same assembler so it's not surprising that both syntaxes used the same encoding.
< 1567912024 478461 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason I was thinking it was nasm because it was mentioned earlier.
< 1567912055 538626 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :nasm does use 89 as well though.
< 1567912081 479159 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :godbolt.org has a checkbox to show the instruction encoding rather than just assembly.
< 1567912087 607736 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it doesn't work when you set the language to assembly!
< 1567912098 479099 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall that some people use variant instruction encodings for watermarking software.
< 1567912106 802392 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: That suffix thing rings a bell, I think there was a university course that did that for an x86 variant.
< 1567912117 808871 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I opened an issue: https://github.com/mattgodbolt/compiler-explorer/issues/1567
< 1567912119 418581 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That it used as the target, it was a course on compilers.
< 1567912135 910382 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to fix it locally but then it needed a new version of node.js to build so I gave up on it.
< 1567912166 59094 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, is Godbolt just their surname?
< 1567912184 300762 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1567912185 906797 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was reference to a thunder deity or something.
< 1567912189 941950 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any case, as much as I'd like a round-trippable disassembler/assembler, I also want a noiseless disassembler that just conveys the semantics.
< 1567912200 143489 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though their Twitter nick is now "Matt Compiler-Explorer".
< 1567912207 2612 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh.
< 1567912210 64173 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So round-trippability should be an option, probably not even enabled by default.
< 1567912236 787645 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1567912275 12317 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must be odd to have your name forever associated with a thing that way.
< 1567912284 795618 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I guess it's more or less the same for mathematicians.
< 1567912332 681260 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's already weird when you're just cited in a paper. "As