00:08:51 -!- tswett has joined. 00:09:11 Yo. 00:09:22 So riot.im is being weird. 00:10:37 -!- arseniiv_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:12:19 So, I'm playing with Attempto Controlled English, which is (mostly) a syntax for first-order logic. 00:12:58 There's an ACE theorem prover here: http://attempto.ifi.uzh.ch/race/ 00:13:28 I've found that it's able to prove a certain rather interesting theorem. 00:13:48 Axioms: David is a person. If there is a person A then exactly one person is a mother of the person A. 00:14:02 Theorem (apparently): Every person is a mother of David. 00:15:25 Corollary: David is a mother of David. 00:16:45 I'm trying to figure out how it managed to conclude that... 00:18:52 tswett: can it also prove that every person is David? 00:19:51 b_jonas: Hmmm, yes, it can. 00:20:08 -!- FreeFull has quit. 00:20:56 tswett: can it still prove that if you only take the first axiom? 00:21:28 b_jonas: No. 00:21:46 tswett: how about if you take the first axiom, and the second axiom but replace "A" with "X" case sensitively 00:22:14 (as in, maybe it confuses "a" with "A" which is why it misunderstands something) 00:22:30 It still proves that every person is David. 00:22:55 So now I have— 00:23:05 Do you have the source code for the prover? 00:23:21 Axioms: David is a person. If there is a person X then exactly one person is a mother of the person X. Theorem: Every person is David. 00:23:21 Can it prove a contradiction from those axioms? 00:23:50 It says the axioms are consistent. 00:24:37 Can you formalize the theorem prover into that lanuage, and if so, can it prove the formal version of "the ACE theorem prover cannot prove this statement"? 00:24:50 Oof. 00:25:00 Sorry. 00:25:05 That wasn't a serious question. 00:25:05 :D 00:25:19 Anyway, does this theorem prover output proofs? 00:25:40 No, only minimal subsets of axioms required to prove the theorem. 00:26:44 tswett: are you sure that that second axiom has a quantifier over X? 00:27:38 Am I David? 00:29:25 b_jonas: It definitely interprets X as a bound variable. 00:29:38 In both positions. 00:29:40 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:30:17 Ahøyrjan. 00:30:55 The axioms don't prove "Everything is David." but they do prove "Everyone is David." 00:32:16 They also prove "Every house is a person," and, of course, "Every house is David." 00:32:17 tswellot. sounds like sound axioms. 00:35:41 Also, "Someone is everything." 00:36:02 pantheism built in 00:36:24 (Meaning, "There exists someone A such that for all B, A = B.") 00:47:31 Hmmmm. I think it's doing something weird with proper names. 00:47:42 Axioms: David is a person. Brian is a cat. 00:47:47 Theorem: David is a cat. 00:57:25 Sole axiom: David is a person and a person is David. 00:57:31 Theorem: Every house is a person. 00:59:54 * kmc waves to tswett 01:00:08 Yo. \o 01:02:48 Sole axiom: David is a person and Brian is a person. Theorem: Every house is David. 01:06:56 Hmmmm. Apparently that follows by "transitivity of comparative adjectives." 01:08:00 That's what it says when I tell it to show its reasoning. 01:10:10 -!- ArthurStrong has quit (Quit: leaving). 01:11:08 -!- ^[ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:11:59 `? labels.pl 01:12:01 Preprocessor for asm2bf to support labels. Use % to refer to a label, use @ to declare one. 01:12:14 -!- dog_star has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:12:14 -!- lynn has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:12:14 -!- j4cbo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:12:24 -!- dog_star has joined. 01:12:39 `slwd labels.pl//s,P,labels.pl is a p, 01:12:41 labels.pl//labels.pl is a preprocessor for asm2bf to support labels. Use % to refer to a label, use @ to declare one. 01:13:07 `? rules of wisdom 01:13:08 unless essential for the entry‘s humor, they should: be understandable without the lookup key, be single spaced and end in a newline with no space before that, and use proper capitalization and punctuation 01:13:17 -!- lynn has joined. 01:13:18 -!- j4cbo has joined. 01:13:27 -!- ^[ has joined. 01:13:36 `slwd rules of wisdom//s/:/ be:/ 01:14:56 if you do that you have to add proper grammar to the list hth 01:15:54 or consistency 01:17:52 `` echo $IRC_CHANNEL 01:17:53 No output. 01:18:29 `` echo $IRC_TARGET 01:18:29 #esoteric 01:20:48 -!- tswett has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:25:54 `sled bin/ls//s,;, && "$IRC_TARGET" == #*;/ 01:25:55 /bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 29: unterminated `s' command 01:26:05 `sled bin/ls//s,;, && "$IRC_TARGET" == #*;, 01:26:09 bin/ls//#!/bin/bash \ if /bin/ls -id "$@" 2>/dev/null | grep -q ^"$(/bin/ls -id /hackenv/wisdom | cut -d\ -f 1)" ;; "$IRC_TARGET" == #*; then echo 'As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try listing it in private instead.'; else exec -a ls /bin/ls "$@"; fi 01:26:15 oops 01:26:20 `revert 01:26:21 Done. 01:26:55 `sled bin/ls//s,;,\&\& "$IRC_TARGET" == #*;, 01:26:56 bin/ls//#!/bin/bash \ if /bin/ls -id "$@" 2>/dev/null | grep -q ^"$(/bin/ls -id /hackenv/wisdom | cut -d\ -f 1)" && "$IRC_TARGET" == #*; then echo 'As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try listing it in private instead.'; else exec -a ls /bin/ls "$@"; fi 01:27:08 `ls wisdom 01:27:09 /hackenv/bin/ls: line 3: syntax error: unexpected end of file 01:27:27 argh 01:27:31 `revert 01:27:32 Done. 01:27:38 `sled bin/ls//s,;,\&\& "$IRC_TARGET" == #* ;, 01:27:39 bin/ls//#!/bin/bash \ if /bin/ls -id "$@" 2>/dev/null | grep -q ^"$(/bin/ls -id /hackenv/wisdom | cut -d\ -f 1)" && "$IRC_TARGET" == #* ; then echo 'As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try listing it in private instead.'; else exec -a ls /bin/ls "$@"; fi 01:27:44 `ls wisdom 01:27:45 /hackenv/bin/ls: line 3: syntax error: unexpected end of file 01:28:01 ok i'm not doing something right. oh. 01:28:17 `revert 01:28:18 Done. 01:28:36 `sled bin/ls//s,;,\&\& "$IRC_TARGET" == \\#* ;, 01:28:38 bin/ls//#!/bin/bash \ if /bin/ls -id "$@" 2>/dev/null | grep -q ^"$(/bin/ls -id /hackenv/wisdom | cut -d\ -f 1)" && "$IRC_TARGET" == \#* ; then echo 'As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try listing it in private instead.'; else exec -a ls /bin/ls "$@"; fi 01:28:42 `ls wisdom 01:28:43 /hackenv/bin/ls: line 2: #esoteric: command not found \ ` \ `! \ `? \ `? `? \ `# \ ^ \ \ _̰̆̓_�̦̻̖͍̟̖̅ͭͭͬ͡_͉̭ͧ͒̐_͂͋͒ͧ͋�̯͙̬̬̦̯̋_̴̝̔̉̅ͨ͞ \ ¯\_(ツ)_ \ ! \ ? \ ?? \ ¿ \ @ \ * \ \ \ ꙮ \ ☆ \ ☃ \ ⌨ \ 　 \ ⊥ \ ☾_ \ 🐚 \ 𝕈 \ 🐐 \ ᛁᚿ \ ̸̸̼͚͇̮͕̳̞̤̜̯̪̪̱̣̠̺̹͍̩̝͚͕͓͚̙͓̪̮̟̜̣͙̪̂ͭ̎̏̔ͦ͒ͪ͌̾ͦͨ̚̚͢͢͠ͅ҉̴̢_͙̣̿̊ͣ̉ͣͪ͒̓̐͊̏ͫ̓̚̚�͎� 01:28:49 darn 01:28:59 oops 01:29:28 `revert 01:29:29 Done. 01:29:57 `sled bin/ls//s,;,\&\& [[ "$IRC_TARGET" == \\#* ]];, 01:29:58 bin/ls//#!/bin/bash \ if /bin/ls -id "$@" 2>/dev/null | grep -q ^"$(/bin/ls -id /hackenv/wisdom | cut -d\ -f 1)" && [[ "$IRC_TARGET" == \#* ]]; then echo 'As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try listing it in private instead.'; else exec -a ls /bin/ls "$@"; fi 01:30:08 `ls wisdom 01:30:11 As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try listing it in private instead. 01:30:14 whee 01:31:19 no visible nicks, of course. 01:32:00 although much unicode to annoy people. maybe the explanation needs changing. 02:13:10 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 03:13:32 -!- Melvar has quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.4). 03:23:25 -!- Melvar has joined. 03:23:38 -!- Frater_EST has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:37:44 -!- imode has joined. 04:04:44 -!- imode has quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.6). 04:05:28 -!- imode has joined. 04:23:37 -!- kspalaiologos has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 04:38:34 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 04:41:06 -!- Sgeo__ has joined. 04:44:40 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 05:58:13 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 06:27:44 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 06:29:32 -!- atriq has joined. 06:37:30 -!- Melvar has quit (*.net *.split). 06:37:30 -!- sebbu has quit (*.net *.split). 06:37:30 -!- grumble has quit (*.net *.split). 06:37:31 -!- Taneb has quit (*.net *.split). 06:37:31 -!- Vorpal has quit (*.net *.split). 06:37:31 -!- clog has quit (*.net *.split). 06:37:31 -!- erdic has quit (*.net *.split). 06:37:31 -!- jix has quit (*.net *.split). 06:37:32 -!- kmc has quit (*.net *.split). 06:37:32 -!- gitlogger has quit (*.net *.split). 06:37:32 -!- LBPHacker has quit (*.net *.split). 06:37:32 -!- APic has quit (*.net *.split). 06:37:38 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (*.net *.split). 06:37:39 -!- paul2520 has quit (*.net *.split). 06:42:45 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 06:42:45 -!- paul2520 has joined. 06:44:39 -!- Melvar has joined. 06:48:50 -!- grumble has joined. 06:48:50 -!- Vorpal has joined. 06:48:50 -!- erdic has joined. 06:48:50 -!- jix has joined. 06:48:50 -!- kmc has joined. 06:48:50 -!- gitlogger has joined. 06:48:50 -!- LBPHacker has joined. 06:48:50 -!- APic has joined. 06:50:09 -!- kspalaiologos has joined. 06:50:38 Hi, b_jonas 06:50:59 My client automagically conmected to IRC and I didn't notice it 06:51:43 `asmbf mov r1, 2\mov r2, 3 06:51:43 +>+[# 06:51:52 ?? 06:52:11 `asmbf mov r1,2/mov r2,3 06:52:12 +>+[<[>>+>+<<<-]>>[<<+>>-]>[[-]>>[-]++>[-]+++<<<]<<<[>>+>+<<<-]>>[<<+>>-]>[[-]<<<[-]>[-]>>]<<] 06:52:18 Yeah perfect 06:52:32 Thanks for the command 07:15:18 -!- grumble has quit (*.net *.split). 07:15:18 -!- Vorpal has quit (*.net *.split). 07:15:19 -!- erdic has quit (*.net *.split). 07:15:19 -!- jix has quit (*.net *.split). 07:15:19 -!- kmc has quit (*.net *.split). 07:15:19 -!- gitlogger has quit (*.net *.split). 07:15:19 -!- LBPHacker has quit (*.net *.split). 07:15:19 -!- APic has quit (*.net *.split). 07:16:57 -!- grumble has joined. 07:16:57 -!- Vorpal has joined. 07:16:57 -!- erdic has joined. 07:16:57 -!- jix has joined. 07:16:57 -!- kmc has joined. 07:16:57 -!- gitlogger has joined. 07:16:57 -!- LBPHacker has joined. 07:16:57 -!- APic has joined. 07:17:01 -!- APic has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 07:22:04 -!- APic has joined. 07:53:11 What happened 07:53:19 My bot has crashed? 07:53:32 How did it rejoin I didn't implement it 08:08:00 oerjan: technically on freenode, channel names can also start with @ or * 08:08:17 but that probably doesn't come up with HackEso 08:08:37 I think it would be better to check for a nick rather than for a channel 08:08:53 but it doesn't matter in the case of ls 08:14:15 hm, I don't think they can start with those? 08:15:03 I'm getting CHANTYPES=# from /version at least 08:30:06 FireFly: yes, but you can send a message to *#esoteric or @#esoteric , which is like sending to #esoteric but only users who are voiced or op on that channel get it, and the target shows up as *#esoteric or @#esoteric on the receiver side. of course HackEso isn't voiced or op on any channel, so he won't get those. 08:30:25 (I don't know if *#esoteric also sends the message to nicks who are op but not voiced.) 08:32:37 It's easier to test for nick characters [-0-9A-}] because those are the same on all networks 08:32:47 no messing with channel types and prefixes 08:36:27 -!- clog has joined. 08:41:25 this prefixed channel thing causes bugs in many clients by the way 09:00:42 -!- b_jonas has quit (Quit: leaving). 09:09:57 oh that, it'd be +#foo in the voiced case 09:35:45 Will it actually look to the recipient as if it was sent to @#foo or +#foo though? 09:36:03 I would imagine that would confuse a lot of clients. 09:37:37 it does 09:37:46 Funky. 09:38:09 It's kind of just a rarely used feature AIUI 09:39:15 There were some changes last summer to have messages sent through to ops when channel mode +z is set, use @# instead of just # 09:39:36 which does make it possible to distinguish them at least on the client side 09:51:40 -!- lldd_ has joined. 10:08:43 -!- atslash has joined. 10:18:14 -!- wib_jonas has joined. 10:19:13 Hey look. OEIS doesn't keep its own documented rules. https://oeis.org/eishelp1.html says that listing at least four terms are required for every sequence, but https://oeis.org/A235383 only has two terms. 10:23:10 -!- lldd_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:25:56 fungot, do you keep your own rules? 10:25:56 wib_jonas: when i first had cleared cell handling, but because it points to a 10:27:22 The first rule of the tautology club is the first of tautology club's rules. 10:29:08 the zeroeth rule of address+offset club is indices start at 0 10:31:46 -!- nico_nico has joined. 10:32:03 -!- nico_nico has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:06:09 -!- arseniiv_ has joined. 11:45:45 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Quadril-Is * New user account 12:01:54 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67048&oldid=67041 * Quadril-Is * (+371) /* Introductions */ 12:11:05 [[Turing machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67049&oldid=63905 * A * (+66) /* External resources */ 13:38:49 [[Wordfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67050&oldid=43166 * Quadril-Is * (+70) /* Sample Hello World program */ 13:54:35 Whoever made the asmbf available using only one grave character 13:54:50 Please make it pipe stuff thru labels.pl before 13:55:49 `url bin/bfasm 13:55:50 https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/file/tip/bin/bfasm 13:56:24 ? 13:56:36 bfasm is a program 13:56:44 asmbf is the wrapper and command 13:56:48 `url bin/asmbf 13:56:49 https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/file/tip/bin/asmbf 13:57:18 Could you edit it for me? I'm on mobile 13:57:32 And it's quite laggy one 13:57:58 Just add labels.pl in pipe chain before tr 13:58:35 `sled bin/asmbf//s/bfasm/lables.pl | bfasm/ 13:58:36 bin/asmbf//print_args_or_input "$@" |tr / \\n | lables.pl | bfasm 13:59:29 uhm 13:59:35 lables? 13:59:38 Mistake 13:59:42 Labels 13:59:46 And before tr 13:59:48 yeah... on it 14:00:08 `sled bin/asmbf//s/lables/labels/ 14:00:16 bin/asmbf//print_args_or_input "$@" |tr / \\n | labels.pl | bfasm 14:00:24 Perfect 14:00:26 Thanks 14:00:49 `asmbf @hello/jmp %hello 14:00:50 +>+[>>>+<<+<<[>>->+<<<-]>>>[<<<+>>>-]<[->+<<[>>>-<<+<-]>[<+>-]>>[<->[-]]<[<<<+>>>-]<]>>[-]<<<<[>>+>+<<<-]>>[<<+>>-]>[[-]>>>>>>+<<<<<<<<<[-]>[-]>>>>>>>>[<<<<<<<<+>+>>>>>>>-]<<<<<<<[>>>>>>>+<<<<<<<-]>>>>>>>[-]<<<<<<]<<<[>>+>+<<<-]>>[<<+>>-]>[[-]<<<[-]>[-]>>]<<] 14:01:08 Fancy infinite loop, seems like it works 14:01:12 by the way 14:01:18 at least "lables" was a genuine typo... identifying asmbf and bfasm was a real brain fart 14:01:22 `hello m 14:01:23 Hello, World. 14:01:24 `hello 14:01:25 hello, world 14:01:29 `@ fungot hello m 14:01:30 wib_jonas: what is t? i recognize the word :p that means i will have 128 general purpose registers 14:01:30 fungot: Hello, World. 14:01:33 `@ fungot hello 14:01:33 wib_jonas: instead of hte redirectee each prime but they both seem fast enough that no one has 14:01:34 No output. 14:01:39 int-e, lol 14:01:40 bin/@ is weird 14:01:55 Is this a bot? 14:02:05 I mean, fungot 14:02:06 kspalaiologos: ( when was the last you saw? henderson's functional fnord, or more then likely, use both hands for it... 14:02:18 fungot is a bot 14:02:19 `? fungot 14:02:20 wib_jonas: oh yes for no caps lock, no arrow keys... instead of binary 14:02:21 fungot is our beloved channel mascot and voice of reason. 14:02:26 Well 14:02:28 Fine 14:02:38 see also https://esolangs.org/wiki/Fungot 14:02:43 `? zzo38 14:02:44 zzo38 is not actually the next version of fungot, much as it may seem. 14:03:02 Wait a second 14:03:07 A bot in befunge? 14:03:17 on a t-shirt 14:03:20 Is there source available? 14:03:31 ^source 14:03:31 https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98 14:03:40 kspalaiologos: yes, the source is sold on a t-shirt 14:03:44 It's awesome 14:03:51 oh, wow, my brain remembered something correctly *marks day on calendar* 14:04:08 `datei 14:04:09 2019-11-15 14:04:09.093 +0000 UTC November 15 Friday 2019-W46-5 14:04:14 wib_jonas: thanks 14:04:17 Pff 14:04:30 where's the link to the webshop with the t-shirt? 14:04:32 `? shirt 14:04:33 shirt? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 14:04:34 `? t-shirt 14:04:35 t-shirt? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 14:04:35 `? tee 14:04:37 tee? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 14:04:39 hmm 14:04:44 I don't remember any t-shirts 14:04:58 But of course that doesn't mean anything. 14:05:23 I think at least one exists, but possibly not sold from a webshop, but made as a one-time item 14:05:49 there's no tattoo version yet, but there are several other tattoos related to golf or esolang or IOCCC 14:06:08 Yeah, I printed one for myself through a print-your-own-design shop I had a coupon for. 14:06:22 ``asmbf <<<"in_ r1/in_ r2/add r1, r2/out r1" > stuff && bfi stuff <<<"00" 14:06:23 /srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `asmbf: not found 14:06:25 Turned out pretty nice, even if I say so myself. 14:06:37 fizzie: have you already merged the recent bugfix onto the shirt? 14:06:51 `` asmbf <<<"in_ r1/in_ r2/add r1, r2/out r1" > stuff && bfi stuff <<<"00" 14:06:53 /hackenv/bin/`: line 5: bfi: command not found 14:07:07 Really? I installed it 14:07:09 Yesterday 14:07:16 Where's it gone 14:07:26 fizzie: and do you wash it inside-out so that the print lasts longer? I never do that with t-shirts 14:07:57 `` whereis egobfi 14:07:58 egobfi: 14:08:17 `` whereis egobfi8 14:08:18 egobfi8: 14:08:26 wib_jonas: I've not been doing that either. It seems to be pretty durable. Also, I only use it on special occasions. 14:08:45 `` ls /asmbf-v1.1.1/ 14:08:46 ls: cannot access '/asmbf-v1.1.1/': No such file or directory 14:08:59 `` ls asmbf-v1.1.1/ 14:09:00 ls: cannot access 'asmbf-v1.1.1/': No such file or directory 14:09:57 `` ls tmp 14:09:58 a.c \ a.out \ as-encoding \ asmbf-1.1.1 \ banana.txt \ compiled_brachylog.pl \ hexdump.hex \ input.brachylog \ jeval.whatis \ just \ out \ OUT \ out.a \ out.a.hd \ out.a.xxd \ paste \ single-word-character-names \ spline \ spout \ spout.raw \ test.b \ test.sh \ tmp.txt \ v1.1.1.tar.gz 14:10:05 Also, please put temporary files (like "stuff") in either /tmp/ or tmp/ (aka /hackenv/tmp/). 14:10:29 maybe `` should change its working directory to tmp? 14:10:38 though that will cause all sorts of confusion ;) 14:11:11 The former is truly ephemeral (only for the execution of the current command), while the latter is persistent but unversioned. 14:11:13 int-e: that will cause all sorts of bugs 14:11:16 int-e: see the chat log 14:11:45 wait, actual bugs? 14:11:47 int-e: bin/\? and bin/learn still use relative paths. I'll fix those, but I can't fix everything. too many programs assume that the pwd is /hackenv 14:12:09 yeah 14:12:13 and users :) 14:12:24 Can we make a loop device 14:12:37 we could perhaps change .hgignore to ignore files directly in /hackenv , or remove write permission from /hackenv so you can't create files there, but those would probably cause other problems 14:12:39 So some people don't even have to use temp files 14:12:49 (And obviously I wouldn't touch the default for a plain `. But then moving from ` to `` would cause friction...) 14:13:50 int-e: new best practice: if you're making executables for HackE?o that look up files under /hackenv , make it look them up relative to ${HACKENV-/hackenv}/ rather than relative to the working directory 14:14:10 Most of the time you can use pipes instead of temporary files. I don't see how loop devices would improve matters. 14:14:19 [[BrainCurry]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67051&oldid=67044 * SergeJohanns * (+1) Fixed link 14:14:35 `` echo $PATH 14:14:36 /hackenv/bin:/usr/bin:/bin 14:14:56 In particular, bash <(...) syntax can help. 14:15:37 `` echo <(echo foo); cat <(echo bar) 14:15:38 /dev/fd/63 \ bar 14:16:11 Which shell pioneered that one? I thought bash got it from zsh... 14:16:42 Maybe? I'm not too familiar with other shells. 14:17:04 I know some people want to avoid temp files, but I think it's a bad habit that remains from old operating systems that couldn't cache files properly 14:17:09 I think it's a bad practice 14:17:13 I did used to use tcsh for some years, and university machines defaulted to zsh. 14:17:14 just create temp files 14:17:39 although since /tmp and /dev/shm 14:17:49 wib_jonas: temp files have the shared namespace issue wrt to other processes and users 14:17:59 and /var/tmp aren't writable in HackEso, it might make sense to set some environment variables to point to the absolute path of a temp directory 14:18:14 * int-e likes pipes. 14:18:18 /tmp is writable. 14:18:43 It's what you should be using for temporary files within a single command. 14:19:02 int-e: use mkdir then to create a temp directory that nobody else uses 14:20:11 int-e: I recommend mkdir specifically because it's always atomic, two processes can't create the same directory twice successfully, as opposed to open with O_EXCL which is supposed to be atomic like that but there are bugs involving nfs 14:20:19 fizzie: I see 14:20:29 so /tmp is writable but doesn't persist after a command? 14:20:30 that's useful 14:20:37 /tmp is a tmpfs inside the UML. 14:20:47 [[BrainCurry]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67052&oldid=67051 * SergeJohanns * (+25) Added Category 14:20:57 that could work then 14:21:02 `ls /tmp 14:21:03 No output. 14:21:08 `` ls -a /tmp 14:21:09 . \ .. 14:21:42 ``` set -e; hello > /tmp/Z-k3EuobYg4s; echo next:; cat /tmp/Z-k3EuobYg4s 14:21:43 next: \ hello, world 14:21:51 yeah, it's writable. sorry. 14:22:06 why is /dev/shm not writable by the way? 14:22:21 ``` set -e; hello > /dev/shm/Z-k3EuobYg4s; echo next:; cat /dev/shm/Z-k3EuobYg4s 14:22:22 bash: /dev/shm/Z-k3EuobYg4s: Read-only file system 14:23:12 It's just not mounted. 14:23:21 So it falls into the ro /. 14:24:05 `` echo $HOME $HACKENV # There are also these. 14:24:07 /tmp /hackenv 14:24:16 But I should probably also set... is it TMPDIR or TEMPDIR? I can never remember. 14:24:35 theres various "mktemp" commands to attempt to avoid "how to safely create a temp file/dir"; i think openbsd started it, then someone made a "portable" version; i think it really it just calls mktemp() instead of whatever c89 is 14:24:54 s/attempt to avoid/& historical problems with/ 14:25:08 but for all i know, some "mkdir" might have such features "built-in" 14:25:38 (or, that might be backwards, c89 has a not-really-secure mktemp() , and mktemp command calls some better one) 14:26:06 s/calls/& and/or has one bundled with it/ 14:26:08 fizzie: yes, I already edited some of my programs to use $HACKENV, and I want to edit the programs related to wisdom and quote and learning in the future 14:26:29 fizzie: there are a ton of different env-vars about temporary directories. TMP, TEMP, etc 14:26:35 every program uses them in a different way 14:28:45 openbsd/netbsd/freebsd i think also optionally (maybe stock now) do per-user "private /tmp" nowadays, dunno about linux; and thats like the classic dir you set "sticky" bit on 14:31:18 ``` set -e; cd tmp; \' "hey, hey" 14:31:19 nl: quotes: No such file or directory 14:33:12 `python3 -cn="bin/allquotes"; a=open(n,"rb").read(); a=a.replace(b'quotes',b'"${HACKENV-/hackenv}/quotes"'); open(n,"wb").write(a) 14:33:14 No output. 14:33:16 ``` set -e; cd tmp; \' "hey, hey" 14:33:17 728) itidus21: hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, h 14:33:28 ``` set -e; cd tmp; allquotes | tail -n1 14:33:29 1335) The domain is public, but what's the codomain? 14:33:34 ``` set -e; cd tmp; \" 14:33:35 1003) LIST OF ACRONYMS: List Integrating Some Terminology Of Fine Authentic Credibility Relating to Our New Year Media System \ 1226) I need to get out of my habit of eating business cards... 14:33:44 ``` set -e; cd tmp; quote Taneb 14:33:45 383) Turned out he got recursion, he just didn't get the return statement \ 388) Cut to February War were declared A galaxy in turmoil Anyway, Febuary '10 \ 389) I can't afford one of those! A grandchild, not a laser printer \ 395) There's that saying that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [...] You 14:34:06 For the record, the way filesystems work on HackEso is: it uses the umlbox --base-mounts flag (which mounts /usr, /bin, /sbin, /lib, /lib32, /lib64, /etc/alternatives and /dev as read-only 'hostfs' mounts from the host system), then adds three custom mounts (read-write /hackenv, read-only /hackenv/.hg on top of that, and the hackbot lib directory for the 'limits' script), and finally umlbox itself 14:34:09 ``` set -e; cd tmp; q st 14:34:11 1) EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" \ 3) that's where I got it rocket launch facility gift shop \ 8) Lil`Cube: you had cavity searches? not yet trying to thou, just so I can check it off on my list of things to expirence \ 9) So what you're saying is that I shouldn't lick my iPhone but instead I should rub it on my eyes 14:34:12 unconditionally mounts a tmpfs on /tmp, proc on /proc and sysfs on /sys. 14:34:20 (This would all be in the hypothetical HackEso manual, presumably.) 14:34:35 fizzie: I can guess most of that, because I can list mounts 14:35:06 The lib thing explains the otherwise slightly odd /srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib which also leaks a path out of the host. :/ 14:35:20 (Well, all of the hostfs mounts do that.) 14:37:15 does anyone happen to know what bin/\?h is supposed to do? 14:38:41 I know that bin/\?\? accesses the parallel universe wisdom database in tmflry 14:39:02 `?? cat 14:39:03 A cat is an animal with four legs. It's nice to pet, especially when it's a baby cat, called a kitten. Or it's the unix "cat" command. It takes a filename (or many) and prints the contents of that (those) file(s). 14:39:04 `? cat 14:39:05 Cats are cool, but should be illegal. 14:40:04 It's supposed to invoke \? with a special logic to add extra 'h's in words in a manner I can't quite remember the source of. 14:40:29 ok... 14:40:37 it doesn't seem to do that, but maybe it was supposed to 14:40:53 `wehlcohme 14:40:55 It's missing a \, so the '?' in it presumably expands to all one-character commands. 14:40:55 Wehlcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: . (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd ohf ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn EhFneht ohr DAhLneht.) 14:41:17 It's a little bit less h-heavy than that. But yeah, maybe same roots. 14:41:47 It might be just barely possible ?h was added when ? was the only single-character command, though that seems unlikely. I don't know if it's ever worked. 14:42:37 Oh, there's also bin/?hh and that's actually been fixed. 14:42:46 `?hh welcome 14:42:48 Wehlcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: . (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd ohf ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn EhFneht ohr DAhLneht.) 14:43:00 Hmm https://esolangs.org/logs/2013-01-25.html#lzn ff. 14:43:00 fizzie: or when it was the alphabetically first single-character command in New Zealand locale order 14:43:26 prototyped by fizzie, implemented by shachaf 14:46:11 `sled bin/?h//s|^|\\| 14:46:14 bin/?h//\? "$@" | perl -pe 's/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])\b/$1h$2/ig' 14:46:22 `?h welcome 14:46:23 Welcome to the internationahl huhb fohr esoterihc programming language design and deployment! Fohr more informatiohn, check ouht ouhr wiki: . (Fohr the othehr kind ohf esoterica, try #esoterihc ohn EFneht ohr DALneht.) 14:46:27 Anyway. 14:46:36 nice 14:46:41 `??h Tanebventions 14:46:42 /srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ??h: not found 14:46:46 `?h tanebventions 14:46:47 Tanebventions include necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, metahr, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46biht, progress, sanity, the huhg, Italiahn, the grace periohd, the limerick, ruihn, and thihs sentence. See also tanebventions: maths ohr tanebventions: foods. He nevehr invents anything involving sehx. 14:47:31 With the \b it's a little picky, you have to have a vowel-consonant pair at the end of the word. 14:50:53 ``` grep -lw quotes bin/* # I'll have to check these 14:50:54 bin/addquote \ bin/allquotes \ bin/delquote \ bin/pastequotes \ bin/qc \ bin/quotenums \ bin/tclkit \ bin/units \ bin/whoq 14:50:59 and then the ones that refer to wisdom 14:52:55 hmm, fixing addquote and delquote are trickier because to test them, I have to add a quote and delete one 14:53:21 "Just run the test suite." 14:55:27 is there a test quote for the test suite? 14:55:49 -!- tswett[m] has joined. 14:55:50 -!- wmww has joined. 14:55:55 -!- ddmm_ has joined. 14:56:06 I don't think there is. 14:56:30 I have a local "DevHackEso" instance I use when doing changes to the actual code (not the "userland"), but it's a bit of a pain to set up locally. 14:56:58 I'll just add a quote and delete the same quote 14:57:06 twice 15:02:18 Another HackEso oddity: /dev is actually the host system's real /dev. It works out pretty well in practice, because it's inside a container with a really sparse /dev. But now that they've brought back the ghost of devfs as devtmpfs, maybe that'd be an option. Before, you'd either have had to manually populate a static /dev or run udev. 15:18:18 ``` grep -lw wisdom bin/* 15:18:19 bin/? \ bin/cwlprits \ bin/disce \ bin/dowg \ bin/footnote \ bin/forget \ bin/grwp \ bin/gwn \ bin/gwni \ bin/howg \ bin/hwrl \ bin/lastwisdoms \ bin/leann \ bin/learn \ bin/ls \ bin/pastewisdom \ bin/plwd \ bin/slashlearn \ bin/slwd \ bin/w \ bin/wdit \ bin/whoops \ bin/widsom \ bin/wisdom \ bin/wisdöm \ bin/wiseguys \ bin/wrl 15:18:32 ``` grep -lw tmflry bin/* 15:18:33 bin/?? \ bin/mislearn \ bin/tomfoolery 15:18:41 of course some of those are false positives 15:22:57 -!- imode has joined. 15:35:49 -!- xkapastel has joined. 16:16:57 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:21:46 -!- wib_jonas has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:37:30 -!- unlimiter has joined. 16:40:10 -!- unlimiter has quit (Client Quit). 16:40:30 -!- unlimiter has joined. 17:01:43 -!- unlimiter has quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.6). 17:06:47 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 17:09:27 -!- kspalaiologos2 has joined. 17:13:58 hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, 17:14:14 (I actually have nothing to say but I want to say hey) 17:14:18 -!- arseniiv_ has changed nick to arseniiv. 17:15:18 ☺ 17:15:33 also I was writing a bunch of lame Haskell code yesterday and maybe I will continue today too and then show you to have much criticism! 17:15:55 naming things is often a mess 17:18:01 they say if you can’t figure out a name for a code thingy, better do without. but I think there are a big case of false negative here for people who just have a bad day for language or maybe they are non-natives even worse than me 17:39:23 -!- FreeFull has joined. 18:12:56 -!- kspalaiologos2 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:12:56 -!- kspalaiologos has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:13:17 -!- kspalaiologos has joined. 18:15:34 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 18:25:01 -!- b_jonas has joined. 18:33:40 hey, hey arseniiv 18:33:56 b_jonas: hey, 18:34:11