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00:30:11 <int-e> shachaf: what do you think of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faddeev%E2%80%93LeVerrier_algorithm
00:33:22 <shachaf> I don't think much of it right now. Should I?
00:38:49 <int-e> It can compute adjoint matrices and determinants, which is nice. Seems to be competetive for that purpose on 9x9 matrices.
00:40:08 <int-e> (I'm still tinkering with http://www.research.ibm.com/haifa/ponderthis/challenges/November2019.html )
00:50:01 <int-e> https://arxiv.org/abs/1206.7067 was more illuminating really.
00:52:34 <esowiki> [[Talk:Cell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67507&oldid=67499 * JonoCode9374 * (+602) /* Addition of Looping Commands */ new section
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01:33:30 <oerjan> fizzie: having it give the same cryptic error message on non-executable files as non-existing ones may be confusing given how often we forget to do chmod +x
01:33:58 <int-e> I guess it's appropriate that a canary is executable... since its main purpose is to warn others by dying off?
01:34:14 <HackEso> -rw-r--r-- 1 1000 1000 101 Jul 19 21:53 ../canary
01:34:28 <HackEso> /hackenv/bin/`: line 5: ../canary: Permission denied
01:34:28 <oerjan> i was testing the error message
01:36:13 <oerjan> `u mk bin/cp//Testing...
01:36:23 <HackEso> cp: cannot stat 'a': No such file or directory
01:36:45 <HackEso> cd "${HACKENV-/hackenv}"; nur "$1"
01:36:58 <HackEso> #!/bin/bash \ if grep -q \ <<<"$1"; then "${1%% *}" "${1#* }"; else "$1"; fi
01:37:18 <oerjan> int-e: i got tired of doing ../ all the time. wait, `u is the same length :(
01:38:33 <oerjan> oh i forgot an important part
01:38:40 <HackEso> cp: missing destination file operand after 'testing' \ Try 'cp --help' for more information.
01:39:11 <oerjan> ok so fizzie's command search also skips non-executable files
01:39:32 <fizzie> I'm just following the standard.
01:39:40 <oerjan> but unlike the normal shell, it ignores them even if it finds no executable match
01:39:58 <HackEso> /hackenv/bin/`: line 5: fnord: command not found
01:40:38 <HackEso> fnord? No such file or directory
01:41:14 <HackEso> ../canary? Permission denied
01:41:56 <fizzie> It should follow the standard practice now, assuming I didn't include any bugs.
01:42:11 <fizzie> "If permission is denied for a file (the attempted execve(2) failed with the error EACCES), these functions will continue searching the rest of the search path. If no other file is found, however, they will return with errno set to EACCES."
01:43:56 <oerjan> no wait, `u is shorter because i don't need another `
01:45:42 <oerjan> maybe i should rename it
01:45:58 <oerjan> `u is three keypresses but `r is just two, because ù exists
01:45:59 <HackEso> /hackenv/bin/nur: line 2: is: command not found
01:46:13 <fizzie> I was thinking `^ because it's the up arrow, but that's just silly.
01:46:33 <oerjan> hm that actually works, both use the same shift key for me
01:46:51 <oerjan> although i'm not sure for a different keyboard
01:47:02 <fizzie> They don't for UK or US, but who's counting?
01:47:20 <fizzie> (The ` is unshifted, ^ is on shift-6.)
01:50:10 <HackEso> ^? No such file or directory
01:51:30 <HackEso> ~? No such file or directory
01:51:45 <oerjan> int-e: ~ means $HOME which is /tmp
01:52:08 <HackEso> ls: cannot access '~': No such file or directory
01:52:31 <oerjan> also ~ uses a different modifier key than ` for me
01:52:33 <int-e> oerjan: It only means that in shells.
01:52:49 <oerjan> _and_ i need a space after ~.
01:52:50 <int-e> and it's not a dead key.
01:53:09 <HackEso> ¬? No such file or directory
01:53:21 <oerjan> so 3 presses, 5 keys total
01:55:51 <fizzie> Another little oddity of the UK layout is that there is exactly one third-level symbol printed on a keycap, and that's the broken bar, which is altgr-`... except that it's anyone's guess whether it'll actually produce a broken bar or just the regular |. On this system it's just a |.
01:56:20 <fizzie> So there's the \| key (plain, shifted) next to z, but also the `¬| key next to 1.
01:57:01 <fizzie> I think someone operating systems will actually produce a ¦ out of it though.
01:57:40 <int-e> oerjan: that's even worse than `u
01:58:03 <int-e> (further away and needs a shift)
01:58:26 <oerjan> < is unshifted left of z here
01:59:39 <int-e> Ah I guess I don't actually care. It's easy to complain though.
01:59:54 <oerjan> `complain int-e complains too much
01:59:56 <HackEso> Complaint filed. Thank you.
02:00:03 <fizzie> Wonder which one's more useless, the UK's ¬ or the Finnish/Swedish ½, for the "shifted left of 1" position.
02:00:59 <fizzie> Finnish keyboard layout has § there as the unshifted.
02:01:10 <imode-ruby> and now begins my quest to convince my employer that working on an esolang is a useful way of spending company time.
02:01:24 <fizzie> UK's missing § completely, they don't go for legalese over here.
02:02:04 <HackEso> t? No such file or directory
02:02:09 <int-e> oerjan: shachaf's still leading in the complaint department, followed by you ;)
02:03:00 <int-e> (Well, it's hard to count, actually; two of your changes were `sled invokations)
02:03:06 <HackEso> /hackenv/bin/nur: line 2: `mv: command not found
02:03:29 <oerjan> t for top is just as logical
02:03:40 <oerjan> and not confusible with /
02:03:46 <int-e> and I guess https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/rev/875339492c29 was a random complaint (which was reverted)
02:05:13 <oerjan> int-e: given it was izabera, it's probably italian hth
02:05:24 * oerjan ignores phonotactics LA LA LA LA
02:06:28 <int-e> oerjan: look at the command though
02:07:03 * oerjan ignores logic LA LA LA LA
02:08:40 <int-e> of course you do, except when you don't
02:08:50 <HackEso> tautology:A tautology is a tautology. Oren invented them.
02:09:17 <int-e> I should probably sleep.
02:11:25 <HackEso> moon//moon is often named the following: moonythedwarf moonythehuman moonheart08 moony moon__ computing and luxon, making porthellos and @tells a real pain
02:11:47 <HackEso> ☾_ \ bimonthly \ ciol \ #esoteric \ moon \ pluto
02:12:13 <HackEso> ☾_ is moon_'s lawful twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. He sometimes eats papers.
02:13:17 <oerjan> porthellos seem to have decreased somewhat
02:14:43 <oerjan> `slwd moon//s,__,__ noomy,
02:14:45 <HackEso> moon//moon is often named the following: moonythedwarf moonythehuman moonheart08 moony moon__ noomy computing and luxon, making porthellos and @tells a real pain
02:15:33 <HackEso> moon//moon is often named the following: moonythedwarf moonythehuman moonheart08 moony moon__ noomy computing and luxon, making porthellos and @tells a real pain.
02:16:05 <noomy> should've seen me earlier when i was "sust" for a bit (as a joke, you won't see that nick again)
02:16:48 <oerjan> you just cannot make the nick sust ainable
02:17:37 <noomy> that is actually close to the joke. I nicknamed myself the shortening of "sustenence" to make dumb jokes in ##werewolf when we were playing boreal
02:17:55 <noomy> (Boreal happens to be a gamemode where you can starve to death)
02:18:27 <imode-ruby> eneccccjljlhknhtfdditlhnjrdcercdldcdukkngdfk
02:18:54 <oerjan> . o O ( imode-ruby appears to be speaking italian LA LA LA LA )
02:18:58 <int-e> . o O ( Who put the "pun" in "penguin"?)
02:19:13 <imode-ruby> oerjan: were there any curses in that?
02:19:25 <imode-ruby> if not I'm disappointed at my unconscious knowledge of italian.
02:19:46 <oerjan> i don't know much italian cursing
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04:09:52 <esowiki> [[Hunter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67508&oldid=67484 * Oerjan * (-39) /* Description */ fix dead link
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08:17:41 <b_jonas> oerjan: how about `㋌ then, since it's a version-controlled directory?
08:41:32 <oerjan> b_jonas: i don't know how to type that but i suspect it would be a lot more key presses than `t
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08:52:13 <b_jonas> also I dreamt about a version control system that doesn't exist in real life. in my dream, it was quite popular, not as popular as git but probably at second or third place in popularity, and almost as old as git. I was sad when I finally realized that it doesn't exist upon waking up.
08:52:42 <b_jonas> I'm not sure what it is named, because dreams are vague like that, my best guess is "tek"
08:55:05 <b_jonas> the other one among the top three most popular ones was either mercury or another one that doesn't exist in real life
08:56:16 <b_jonas> and no, none of these is ais's scapegoat
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11:16:22 <int-e> =8ball Should I try simulated annealing?
11:16:23 <bfbot> My sources say no.
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11:47:08 <esowiki> [[Aya]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67509&oldid=51832 * A * (+30)
12:05:39 <fizzie> `` 8ball 'Should int-e try simulated annealing?' # just for confirmation
12:05:46 <fizzie> Well, conflicting advice there.
12:20:46 <wib_jonas> int-e: try /msg perlbot 8-ball Should int-e try simulated annealing?
12:20:56 <wib_jonas> perlbot's implementation is more reliable
12:21:52 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Joru * New user account
12:21:58 <int-e> But I already got the answer I wanted!
12:26:20 <esowiki> [[User talk:Zzo38]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67510&oldid=66901 * YamTokTpaFa * (+490) /* I'd like to learn about AAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! more. */
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12:59:17 <kspalaiologos> 1. e4 e5 2. f3 Nf6 3. c3 Nxe4 4. fxe4 Qh4+ 5. g3 Qxe4+ 6. Be2 Qxh1 7. Bf1 Qxg1 8. Qe2 Qc5 9. Qg2 d5 10. b4 Qb6 11. Na3 d4 12. Nc4 Qe6 13. a4 dxc3 14. dxc3 c6 15. Qe2 Nd7 16. Nxe5 Nxe5 17. Bb2 f6 18. c4 Bxb4+ 19. Kd1 Qd6+ 20. Kc1 Bd2+ 21. Kc2 Bf5+ 22. Kb3 Qb4+ 23. Ka2 Be6 24. Rd1 Qxa4+ 25. Kb1 Bf5+ 26. Qe4 Bxe4+ 27. Bd3 Bxd3# 0-1
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13:57:04 <esowiki> [[W (A)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67511&oldid=67502 * A * (+415)
13:58:10 <esowiki> [[W (A)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67512&oldid=67511 * A * (+2) /* Project Euler 1 */
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14:21:25 <arseniiv> <fizzie> DejaVu Sans Mono. => oh! I set that in firefox as a default for many languages
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14:24:10 <arseniiv> someone played Submachine series?
14:27:39 <arseniiv> when it doesn’t go too point-and-clicky, I think it’s pretty cool
14:28:45 <arseniiv> there’s even an overarching story, though I think it wasn’t conceived in all its completeness in the times of older episodes
14:31:19 <arseniiv> but even then there was a bit or two of a story; not your average escape from X game; and there is a spoon (and later, a fork, and later still, both, but you won’t use them for eating)
14:32:52 <arseniiv> it all uses Flash, though, as all older yet unported things do
14:33:13 <arseniiv> or maybe it was ported while I wasn’t looking
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16:48:41 <esowiki> [[`]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67513&oldid=55716 * Dart * (+541) Cleaned up, added examples, deleted wrong tags.
17:00:54 <HackEso> cat: 'bin/?': No such file or directory
17:01:12 <moony> `cat /hackenv/bin/?
17:01:13 <HackEso> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$@" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo '`'"$topic" | sed 's/^`\(`\|$\)//') \ topic2=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd $HACKENV/wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic2"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic"; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1"; \ elif [ -e "$topic2" ]; \ then cat "$topic2"; \
17:01:45 <moony> ` mv /hackenv/wisdom/moon /hackenv/wisdom/moony
17:01:53 <moony> `mv /hackenv/wisdom/moon /hackenv/wisdom/moony
17:01:54 <HackEso> mv: missing destination file operand after '/hackenv/wisdom/moon /hackenv/wisdom/moony' \ Try 'mv --help' for more information.
17:02:06 <moony> ``mv /hackenv/wisdom/moon /hackenv/wisdom/moony
17:02:09 <HackEso> `mv? No such file or directory
17:02:19 <moony> `` mv /hackenv/wisdom/moon /hackenv/wisdom/moony
17:02:28 <HackEso> moon is often named the following: moonythedwarf moonythehuman moonheart08 moony moon__ noomy computing and luxon, making porthellos and @tells a real pain.
17:03:13 <moony> TODO: request rename on esolangs
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18:07:02 <imode> thunk-like segmented executables actually look really nice. wrote a little python to generate a sample executable.
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18:53:16 <esowiki> [[La We]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67514&oldid=66628 * Pelirodri * (-12)
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19:16:38 <arseniiv> imode: what does thunk-like segmented mean?
19:18:35 <int-e> ah my previous question about simulated annealing was stupid... there are no small steps in discrete problems.
19:19:07 <int-e> =8ball Do you like this?
19:19:08 <bfbot> Outlook not so good
19:19:20 <int-e> I seem to have a new friend.
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19:23:25 <kmc> "oh 8ball, what is the best email client?" "outlook not so good"
19:24:25 <b_jonas> `8ball what is the best email client?
19:24:38 <b_jonas> fungot, what is the best email client?
19:24:38 <fungot> b_jonas: drink a tea fnord i just have to add
19:25:50 <arseniiv> I agree yes you don’t need an email client
19:29:27 <int-e> So I'll stick to stupid hillclimbing from random starting points.
19:43:29 <bfbot> My sources say no.
19:49:12 <bfbot> Outlook not so good
19:50:58 <imode> arseniiv: instead of having a binary executable with segments acting as a container for code, the container _itself_ is mode code, and each of the segments is code that generates values upon request.
19:52:13 <int-e> . o O ( Old hardware: use integer arithmetic for speed. Modern hardware: use floating point arithmetic for speed. )
19:52:35 <int-e> (tbf, the latter is probably only really true for vectorizable code.)
19:53:32 <arseniiv> (maybe after seeing an example or two I’ll understand, but currently I don’t think I am)
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19:59:23 <int-e> . o O ( too von Neumann )
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20:07:20 <int-e> imode: I /guess/ it can do things like generate good code for the actual platform the code is running on?
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20:10:16 <int-e> (trying to figure out why people would want to go down that route... generally things become messier when you replace well-defined data structures by something TC)
20:10:26 <kmc> `addquote <kspalaiologos> =8ball what is the worst mail client? <bfbot> Outlook not so good
20:10:28 <HackEso> 1330) <kspalaiologos> =8ball what is the worst mail client? <bfbot> Outlook not so good
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20:52:22 <HackEso> 2019-11-28 20:52:22.564 +0000 UTC November 28 Thursday 2019-W48-4
21:00:28 <HackEso> 2019-11-28 21:00:27.573 +0000 UTC November 28 Thursday 2019-W48-4
21:03:22 <int-e> . o O ( `mkx ../bin/dateu//echo 'No way!' )
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21:20:37 <esowiki> [[Psychairefatback]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67515&oldid=67025 * Ashtons * (-2097)
21:28:35 <esowiki> [[Psychairefatback]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67516&oldid=67515 * Ashtons * (+200)
21:58:32 <esowiki> [[Psychairefatback]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67517&oldid=67516 * Ashtons * (+160)
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