< 1574986309 834161 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:142d:d239:1e10:f39f QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1574986612 757149 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1574988713 9621 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:142d:d239:1e10:f39f JOIN :#esoteric < 1574988780 915621 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-122-23.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1574988962 977508 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:142d:d239:1e10:f39f QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1574992861 964763 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1574994239 207721 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not sure Dart interpreted ` correctly, but then i'm not sure there is a correct interpretation - the author is A under a previous alias. < 1574994298 6779 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it made no sense before, no it sort of makes sense < 1574994300 75229 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*now < 1574995655 308910 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`slwd moony//s,moony,moon,;s,moon,moony, < 1574995657 994214 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony//moony is often named the following: moonthedwarf moonythehuman moonheart08 moony moon__ noomy computing and luxon, making porthellos and @tells a real pain. < 1574995666 103971 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1574995668 739864 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert < 1574995669 683655 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1574995703 432220 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`slwd moony//s,moony ,moon ,;s,moon,moony, < 1574995705 873878 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony//moony is often named the following: moonythedwarf moonythehuman moonheart08 moon moon__ noomy computing and luxon, making porthellos and @tells a real pain. < 1574995896 969953 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : TODO: request rename on esolangs <-- not sure that's supported < 1574995915 64361 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :awww < 1574995927 175921 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :could just dump my account and make another < 1574995990 253569 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it might be. < 1574996034 541682 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least I think I thought about it. There's a Renameuser extension, which we probably don't have installed at the moment, but I remember it came up. < 1574996076 285378 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's a Renameuser extension, and there's a UserMerge extension, I don't think we have either. < 1574996134 389472 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :UserMerge is probably slightly more general, because you can decompose "rename A to B" into "create B, merge A into B", but not the other way around. < 1574996191 20131 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: your backlink from wikipedia should use https twh < 1574996314 225242 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'a not? < 1574996318 576743 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops < 1574996321 862935 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :will fix < 1574996375 675811 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you remain the only member of "Wikipedians who like empty categories". < 1574996384 431236 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1574996684 197395 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :=8ball test < 1574996684 702319 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Outlook not so good < 1574996686 567079 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :=8ball test < 1574996687 78564 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Outlook not so good < 1574996690 526989 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :=8ball test < 1574996691 52769 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Outlook not so good < 1574996697 571877 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks deterministic. < 1574996716 748532 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i conclude that kspalaiologos cheated even more than i thought to get the last quote < 1574996743 44486 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i am now capable of typing his name without rechecking *MWAHAHAHA* < 1574997269 364136 :kingoffrance!~x__@c-67-161-241-22.hsd1.ut.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1574999282 872990 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, nick. < 1574999313 797166 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :his wretched polish name is still beyond me. maybe the first part. < 1575000540 545321 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pnqbajmoeebvjkji JOIN :#esoteric > 1575002752 203904 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07LogOS14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67518&oldid=67486 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+342) 10Added truth machine example program < 1575002757 869985 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :=8ball test < 1575002758 432046 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Outlook not so good < 1575003038 489629 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :=8ball tset < 1575003039 16598 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Outlook not so good > 1575003197 333762 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67519&oldid=67235 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+339) 10/* Implementations */ Added logOS > 1575003304 711567 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07LogOS14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67520&oldid=67518 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+12) 10Linked to the pages for each implemented program > 1575003420 440986 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07LogOS14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67521&oldid=67520 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+25) 10Restructured page and headings > 1575003755 713497 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67522&oldid=67459 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+82) 10Added logOS < 1575003889 424035 :elliemae!~ellie@2606-a000-8a49-4d00-0000-0000-0000-0001.inf6.spectrum.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1575003938 408186 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1575003943 386233 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1575004019 503942 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1575004638 491457 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :=8ball foo < 1575004639 1704 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Concentrate and ask again. < 1575004781 101252 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric : =8ball foo < 1575004786 983383 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :=8ball foo < 1575004787 488518 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Concentrate and ask again. < 1575004795 751163 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah determinism at its finest. < 1575005034 569360 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^8ball is deterministic 8ball bad? < 1575005034 644969 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1575005058 491237 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there you go. < 1575006477 516282 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :they better hope trogulus doesn't have more nefarious intentions involving those people (alternative 1: to kill off the remaining dome survivors, alternative 2: they're secretly sea creatures like him) < 1575007841 320728 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm are _both_ petey and the pa'anuri trying to trick the other into thinking they are stupid? < 1575007861 407242 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is anyone succeeding? < 1575007899 47267 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is this a proper way to use "both"? < 1575009376 593507 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:b0b8:dd4a:6a28:be4d JOIN :#esoteric > 1575009947 489850 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07LogOS14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67523&oldid=67521 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+285) 10Added etymology < 1575010094 648457 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1575010982 610855 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:b0b8:dd4a:6a28:be4d QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1575011450 603910 :ellie_!~ellie@174.111.195.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1575011607 603825 :elliemae!~ellie@2606-a000-8a49-4d00-0000-0000-0000-0001.inf6.spectrum.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1575011833 63976 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:b0b8:dd4a:6a28:be4d JOIN :#esoteric > 1575012017 335411 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Scoopta 5* 10New user account > 1575012377 591516 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67524&oldid=67503 5* 03Scoopta 5* (+237) 10Introducing myself > 1575012394 523790 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Text14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67525&oldid=60949 5* 03Scoopta 5* (+139) 10Added information about computers that use text as their native language < 1575012635 429026 :ellie_!~ellie@174.111.195.35 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1575015489 982035 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-13-138.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1575017218 99019 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07List of ideas14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67526&oldid=65778 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+46) 10/* Implementation */ < 1575018029 695086 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-rzvztrwoyjjvgkld QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1575019305 609247 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-xlgyhklsybgdlvsa JOIN :#esoteric > 1575019991 848696 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Arial 5* 10New user account > 1575020029 589416 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07List of ideas14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67527&oldid=67526 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+108) 10/* General Ideas */ > 1575020262 339997 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67528&oldid=67524 5* 03Arial 5* (+252) 10/* Introductions */ > 1575020410 907787 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MagiStack14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67529&oldid=44698 5* 03Arial 5* (+1) 10/* 99 bottles of beer */ > 1575020536 152293 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Arial14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=67530 5* 03Arial 5* (+43) 10Created page with "Just a computer science student passing by~" < 1575022396 542674 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1575027752 317719 :ais523_!93bcc342@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.195.66 JOIN :#esoteric < 1575027772 548119 :ais523_!93bcc342@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.195.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: modern CPUs have integer vector units in addition to floating-point vector units < 1575027786 496119 :ais523_!93bcc342@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.195.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd expect them to either be the same speed, or else the integer operations to be faster < 1575027905 279192 :ais523_!93bcc342@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.195.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: renaming accounts on MediaWiki installations requires extensions that Esolang doesn't have, so it's normally easier to just create a new account (although persuading fizzie to install an account-renaming extension is an interesting alternative) > 1575028267 348436 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07`14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67531&oldid=67513 5* 03Ais523 non-admin 5* (-33) 10this is a finite state automaton, because it has a bounded number of accessible cells and a bounded value for each cell > 1575028601 271194 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:The Temporary Stack14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=67532 5* 03Ais523 non-admin 5* (+194) 10I don't think that's a real quine > 1575028610 324085 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:The Temporary Stack14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67533&oldid=67532 5* 03Ais523 non-admin 5* (+30) 10timestamp < 1575028709 243967 :ais523_!93bcc342@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.188.195.66 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1575029428 191772 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a non-real quine? < 1575030567 578141 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.217.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1575032105 28464 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: in this case, it's a non-quine. < 1575032392 968766 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may be an attempt at a cat program but it falls short even for that. < 1575032521 549676 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree < 1575032530 101967 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the v100 at the end even supposed to do < 1575032606 549275 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just pushes a number of 100s onto the stack depending on the length of the user input? < 1575032762 900164 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, maybe the idea was to squeeze everything currently on the stack? < 1575032784 17023 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1575032803 793338 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't really care either... the squeezing mechanic is cute, but there isn't much to actually work with in that language. < 1575032918 958477 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: are you squishy? < 1575032919 238452 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: why do laptops suck for webdev? they run vim as graphical, although it hints at the areas elsewhere, but cmcs might well offer the motivation to do it < 1575033225 586804 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1575033341 6050 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by squeezing? < 1575033414 936006 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :squishing < 1575035032 569246 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :=8ball Is this my lucky day? < 1575035033 191093 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Signs point to yes. < 1575037252 577670 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1575039106 514008 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan wins again < 1575039333 601921 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1575039713 905173 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: can you say "predicament"? < 1575039714 177044 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: ummm......what were we talking about on an irc channel because a) it's the first program to access the value 864000 < 1575039959 180514 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1575040457 151217 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:6934:25c1:f15b:4f44 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1575040546 594272 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:8c00:d8e2:e328:6c91 JOIN :#esoteric < 1575042766 594512 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1575045384 873418 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grwp accident < 1575045386 792878 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :locale:Locales are just frames, which are just complete Heyting algebras. Taneb accidentally invented them by asking about lattices. The only locale available in #esoteric is en_NZ.UTF-8. \ poutine:Poutine was Pouti and boily's sister until the tragic cheese accident. < 1575045415 100247 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PART #esoteric :"SURVIVING CHICKEN" < 1575045415 135941 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1575045460 792408 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net PART :#esoteric < 1575047115 730065 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1575047272 411380 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1575047286 403736 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1575048371 595033 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1575048491 321731 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1575048696 551133 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:b0b8:dd4a:6a28:be4d QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1575048957 541568 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1575049027 196624 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`just < 1575049028 502292 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/tmp/just < 1575049051 681257 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just checking. (No pun intended.) < 1575049054 137492 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.217.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( `learn Baba is you ) < 1575049062 205581 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.217.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’ve seen just the other day < 1575049088 23448 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:b0b8:dd4a:6a28:be4d JOIN :#esoteric < 1575049093 919740 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Baba is just you. < 1575049136 257412 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`just xor < 1575049137 478888 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/tmp/just < 1575049145 953025 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats this < 1575049161 621679 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just greps all the 'is just' / 'are just' factoids and give you the link. < 1575049162 727431 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:b0b8:dd4a:6a28:be4d QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1575049163 858247 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cbt just < 1575049164 589590 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :grwp '\(is\|are\) just' | sed -e 's/:/ ::= /;s/$/\n/' > $HACKENV/tmp/just && url $HACKENV/tmp/just < 1575049164 703439 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :grwp '(is|are) just' | sed -e 's/:/ :No such command. Try =help. < 1575049222 807503 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? locale < 1575049224 19097 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Locales are just frames, which are just complete Heyting algebras. Taneb accidentally invented them by asking about lattices. The only locale available in #esoteric is en_NZ.UTF-8. < 1575049225 419907 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1575049226 98295 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1575049228 411946 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfbot < 1575049230 107332 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The part about en_NZ.UTF-8 is not strictly speaking true any more. < 1575049231 502184 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the heck < 1575049239 872892 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cbt jusrt < 1575049240 616500 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: /hackenv/bin/jusrt: No such file or directory < 1575049241 74880 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cbt just < 1575049241 797659 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :grwp '\(is\|are\) just' | sed -e 's/:/ ::= /;s/$/\n/' > $HACKENV/tmp/just && url $HACKENV/tmp/just < 1575049241 894238 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :grwp '(is|are) just' | sed -e 's/:/ :No such command. Try =help. < 1575049249 364374 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did that happen < 1575049251 254100 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo xyz < 1575049252 5736 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :xyz < 1575049261 206734 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a = b < 1575049265 574799 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`locale -a < 1575049265 661753 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :::= < 1575049265 761864 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :No such command. Try =help. < 1575049266 320472 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :C \ C.UTF-8 \ en_GB.utf8 \ en_NZ.utf8 \ en_US.utf8 \ POSIX < 1575049269 433574 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm what? < 1575049277 976404 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :=list ::=echo xd < 1575049278 231885 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::=list xd < 1575049288 790025 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :=echo dx ::=echo xd < 1575049289 116725 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::=echo dx xd < 1575049301 883397 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the heck < 1575049478 553560 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: hmm, more like Baba was you. < 1575049929 336896 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:b0b8:dd4a:6a28:be4d JOIN :#esoteric < 1575050626 306905 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1575050837 457723 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1575051139 946813 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :`which revert < 1575051140 729518 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1575051189 506450 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:b0b8:dd4a:6a28:be4d QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1575051290 407720 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help revert < 1575051291 853114 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See . It is a builtin command so cannot be called from other commands. < 1575051692 953726 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 "the physical world, whose significance pales in comparison to the Platonic world of mathematical objects" < 1575051824 194908 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Quit: quit < 1575051899 375895 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.217.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I’m not done with that game yet :P < 1575051923 216214 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the hype is over. :P < 1575051928 624267 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.217.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :today I figured out the level with ghosts and skulls < 1575051948 706555 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I've already forgotten everything. < 1575051996 167585 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.217.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: the hype is transient, why should we take it into account?.. < 1575051997 198105 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I certainly don't recall individual levels :) < 1575052012 747140 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: because Time is Move. < 1575052016 478667 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.217.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: good, then you can play it once again! < 1575052037 845875 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, too many other things to play. < 1575052053 92098 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.217.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Noita? ;) < 1575052078 454402 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently, Broken Sword 2. < 1575052096 894658 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.217.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay I’ll play BiY one level a week and will tease you each time about inconsequential things :P < 1575052100 10064 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not into roguelikes at all. < 1575052116 39453 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: You can do the latter without doing the former. < 1575052125 140098 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Are you of any consequence? < 1575052125 224644 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: with my computer, brb later < 1575052137 205130 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.217.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I’m too, I tried Nethack and, well, I tried it and not much more afterwards < 1575052238 122219 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: ghosts and skulls? you have to kill Phantoon and they disappear. < 1575052242 429585 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhm, did I just mix up Broken Sword and Gabriel Knight... they're not even remotely the same beyond being click&point adventures in a modern time fantasy setting. < 1575052306 16598 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.217.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: which one this is from? :) < 1575052312 250745 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway... it's just what I'm currently playing (GK2), not a recommendation (there are better click&point adventures around). < 1575052354 74558 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: SNES Super Metroid < 1575052519 500230 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.217.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah > 1575052522 624285 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Lorlouis 5* 10New user account < 1575052534 728937 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.217.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: heard about that but not played ever < 1575052578 715839 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.217.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :more accurately, heard “Metroid” somewhere and that’s all < 1575052645 677830 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: it's a very good game < 1575052650 523222 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :best of the Metroid series < 1575052747 834915 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.217.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: mm maybe I’ll give it a look in an emulator! > 1575052776 144487 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67534&oldid=67528 5* 03Lorlouis 5* (+177) 10/* Introductions */ > 1575052804 276081 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07B sharp14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67535&oldid=67092 5* 03Lorlouis 5* (+1) 10/* Introduction */ < 1575052941 733205 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :metroid prime is also a great member of the series. < 1575052950 823964 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :still my favorite. < 1575053134 566411 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:b0b8:dd4a:6a28:be4d JOIN :#esoteric < 1575053870 329370 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-187-59.cdrr.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1575055131 733319 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :constructing an infix or a postfix parser using processes might be an interesting task. < 1575055391 533311 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.7.217.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1575056034 386230 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-187-59.cdrr.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1575057626 884585 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :=echo a\déx. < 1575057627 189921 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ad..x. < 1575057640 829356 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1575058531 410385 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm looking for a turing complete two-instruction-set computer that isn't a turning tarpit and doesn't operate on RAM. > 1575059050 815329 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03RGSW 5* 10New user account < 1575059505 722235 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: I think that's impossible. Non-tarpit implies that it offers you a nice variety of useful instructions, so you need at least six different instructions. < 1575059600 887171 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :turning tarpit, not turing tarpit. < 1575059609 459466 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally okay with a turing tarpit, that's kind of the point. < 1575059622 763644 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what a turning tarpit is then < 1575059643 445825 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/Turning_tarpit < 1575059676 345775 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a wheel of instructions, and your commands are "move to next instruction on the wheel" or "execute the currently selected instruction on the wheel". < 1575059682 617461 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some variant thereof. < 1575059788 771501 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: in that case, combinator calculus with SK base, aka unlambda with only the s and k builtins < 1575059803 532740 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or lambda calculus, where the two instructions are lambda and function call < 1575059956 844429 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: or a Turing-machine with one tape and two tape symbols, where the two instructions are (0) move left, (1) flip the symbol under the head then move right < 1575059991 612637 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that TC? < 1575059996 29574 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a brainfuck variant like that, iirc invented by the bbc norvegian village, but a turing machine works better < 1575060010 664310 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanna see that BF variant. < 1575060027 371670 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: if you want to keep the symbol unchanged and move right, you can move right then left then right again < 1575060043 32194 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: and if you want to flip the symbol and move left, you can move right, then move left twice < 1575060058 334588 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can translate to this from an ordinary one tape two symbol turing machine < 1575060067 870050 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :by replacing some of the instructions by a sequence of two or three instructions < 1575060090 168641 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I get that. I was thinking you had a minimal TM that you could chain together to form something that could simulate another TM or something. < 1575060099 603055 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that BF variant you mentioned, out of curiosity? < 1575060210 465998 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, look at https://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_instruction_minimalization or something. or maybe P'' already does this < 1575060219 212552 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this combination was discovered independently by multiple people < 1575060225 640879 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :two instructions? < 1575060241 916342 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, for brainfuck it's more instructions because you count the control flow instructions [ and ] too < 1575060244 918824 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that would be four < 1575060251 748035 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for a TM, you could the control flow as not instructions < 1575060259 160490 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm, true. < 1575060275 620877 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, P'' already has such a combined move and write < 1575060281 336982 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/P%27%27 < 1575060285 136579 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-7.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1575060288 470065 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it was not invented by the bbc < 1575060296 809796 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason I < 1575060309 593492 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm asking is because my language is TC with only 4 instructions. < 1575060319 703611 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm wondering if I can reduce that into two somehow.. don't see a possible way. > 1575060400 352015 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Zzo3814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67536&oldid=67510 5* 03Zzo38 5* (+217) 10 < 1575060519 973595 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the instructions? < 1575060561 672540 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :[]01 < 1575060580 336555 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ is "dequeue a symbol. if it's a 0, jump to matching ]. otherwise, go to next instruction." < 1575060580 944209 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: |open quote < 1575060580 979827 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: | is "dequeue a symbol. if it's a 0, jump to matching ]. otherwise, go to next instruction." < 1575060580 979882 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: | ^ < 1575060585 673591 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :oof. < 1575060588 68224 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry. < 1575060614 755614 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric : ] is "jump to matching [". 0 and 1 enqueue a 0 and a 1 respectively. so there's no movement instructions. < 1575060710 878112 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol j-bot < 1575060796 370426 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1575061265 610626 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67537&oldid=67380 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+12) 10 < 1575061649 540122 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@107-216-155-19.lightspeed.tulsok.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1575061665 986120 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@107-216-155-19.lightspeed.tulsok.sbcglobal.net PART :#esoteric < 1575061952 293810 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1575061968 663078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm looking for a turing complete two-instruction-set computer that isn't a turning tarpit and doesn't operate on RAM. ← minimized https://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainpocalypse < 1575062008 825233 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooo. < 1575062012 185536 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks! < 1575062030 983739 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses a finite circular tape of bignums, and two commands: - decrements the current tape element or restarts the program if it's 0; } moves to the next tape element then increments it < 1575062255 729817 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: you can also have a pointer machine with just two instructions. take a fixed number of registers, say 32 of them, one of them is initialized to the empty list at the start of the program. one instruction takes three register operands creates a new cons cell from two of them and puts it into the third. another instruction unconses a register, has three register operands and a jump target, if the < 1575062261 796975 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :input operand is an empty list it jumps to the target, otherwise it puts the car and crd of that input to the two output registers. < 1575062323 364414 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pnqbajmoeebvjkji QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1575062358 481354 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by "restarts the program" I mean "goto the first instruction", you don't reset memory or the tape pointer) < 1575062404 147843 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Karn disagrees with that < 1575062488 483174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I assumed the instructions couldn't take arguments < 1575062497 201448 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it's trivial, e.g. https://esolangs.org/wiki/Tip does it with only one instruction < 1575062652 557507 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: this reminds me: I will be unemployed for 1 day on Sunday; do you have any specific requests for changes to ayacc while I have the chance to work on it? < 1575062675 340035 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: release it with the license to distribute it clarified < 1575062699 348922 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd prefer a license that allows anyone to distribute modified versions < 1575062754 868161 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-7.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Move left or flip and move right is P'', I think. < 1575062763 978850 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes < 1575062777 961977 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I eventually figured it out < 1575062781 668141 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :took me too much time < 1575062792 6480 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it's GPLv3, and has been for ages < 1575062801 399319 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you confusing it with something else? < 1575062804 385491 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in that case I don't have any request about ayacc < 1575062856 100761 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-7.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are differences ayacc with yacc? < 1575062885 347957 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, it has a header command saying GPLv3 now < 1575062910 997208 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@107-216-155-19.lightspeed.tulsok.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1575062940 333726 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the output it writes is a more readable C program than the one that traditional table-based programs provide; it has a somewhat saner alternate api for how it integrates to a C program; < 1575062968 589369 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it allows for multiple backends so it can output programs in a language other than C or with a different api (eg. stackless), you can add your own; < 1575062991 150598 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it provides better error messages in case of a shift-reduce or reduce-reduce conflict in the language < 1575063002 221543 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sometimes at least, it depends on the language) < 1575063010 246893 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and... there was something more but I forgot < 1575063070 125598 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@107-216-155-19.lightspeed.tulsok.sbcglobal.net PART :#esoteric < 1575063129 443537 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: see its documentation for details < 1575063136 326158 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ayacc < 1575063137 548749 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :ayacc is ais523's yacc parser generator implementation, get it from darcs clone http://nethack4.org/projects/ayacc < 1575063433 681790 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so do you want to tell us what new job you're going to get? < 1575063441 771499 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-7.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK I will look < 1575063483 687359 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-7.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have darcs, is there another way? < 1575063533 898909 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1575063563 821166 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(other than installing darcs, obviously) < 1575063984 363468 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the common free software version control clients installed on my machine because people sometimes distribute files through version control repositories. So I have cvs, svn, git, bzr, hg, darcs, fossil. < 1575064631 461723 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1575065057 453577 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-122-23.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1575065563 115863 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-122-23.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1575065774 335249 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1575065805 304270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1575065832 72777 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ais523: do you mind when I add to the wiki articles about programming languages that are unusual and interesting and definitely not notable for Wikipedia, but technically not esoteric because the author used them for something constructive? https://esolangs.org/wiki/SIMPLE_(preprocessor) is such an article for example. < 1575065895 608153 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/MIX is even worse of course, for it's definitely not esoteric and it's notable enough for Wikipedia < 1575065905 85558 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, wrong link < 1575065909 434958 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/MIX_(Knuth) < 1575065910 35344 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^^ Same question from me < 1575065911 514183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a language intentionally named after a lesser-known programming language almost certainly counts < 1575065923 738631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's some sort of "intention" to make a language esoteric < 1575065934 321098 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general, though, this is an apparently major debate that I've always been wary of wading into < 1575065958 439820 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't want to give an answer to this, because other people may consider it an official position < 1575065986 993898 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just keep the policy that such articles shouldn't be there but fail to enforce it when the language and article is interesting enough < 1575066030 303255 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was also considering http://www.vttoth.com/CMS/index.php/projects/49 but I decided it wasn't esoteric enough < 1575066049 645521 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the Definition of „esoteric“? < 1575066055 860338 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? esoteric < 1575066057 8405 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet. < 1575066058 290150 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`?? esoteric < 1575066059 188576 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must confess, I know not of what you are speaking. < 1575066060 431533 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`?? esolang < 1575066061 345220 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esoteric languages. Usually refers to programming languages designed to be unique, difficult to program in, or just plain weird. See https://esolangs.org for more. < 1575066067 50077 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not that either < 1575066069 639158 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1575066074 892422 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esoteric_programming_language < 1575066084 542353 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would rock if the Definition of „esoteric“ was esoteric. < 1575066086 831042 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't a good description either < 1575066104 557079 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it's esoteric if it's designed without the intention that anyone will use it for any productive purpose < 1575066137 197158 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would make MIX and Olvasható and SIMPLE non-esoteric < 1575066143 973666 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-7.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, although MIX (Knuth) may still be notable enough for esolang wiki as well as Wikipedia, so is MMIX. I think if it is unusual and interesting in some ways and is not the stuff which is the commonly using programming language, it might be put in, either an article by itself or a short note on a user page. (Actually even VAX can have many mentions on a user page; see [[User:Ian/Computer_architectures]]; there is interest to have some details of it < 1575066146 783585 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok < 1575066152 847892 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, one of the reasons I haven't taken a strong stand on which languages are esoteric is that I have trouble defining it myself < 1575066165 311544 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good < 1575066167 380714 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite easy to intentionally create languages close to the boundary line, and then do so again if people move it < 1575066177 867419 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nod* < 1575066190 538239 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :My position can't be construed as official because I have pretty little to do with the wiki content, but I don't mind a relatively relaxed definition of esolang. < 1575066198 92478 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know it when i see it < 1575066213 936429 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that reminds me, this one is definitely esoteric so I'll add a TODO < 1575066216 803207 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are accidental esoteric languages of course < 1575066219 790298 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-7.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, intentionally creating languages close to the boundary line can be done. > 1575066223 379344 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:B jonas14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67538&oldid=67386 5* 03B jonas 5* (+11) 10/* Todo */ < 1575066229 956359 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like C++ templates or ROP gadget sets or other weird machines < 1575066230 927544 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there are some esolangs with intent for people to use them like normal languages (e.g. Funge-98), and some languages that are probably esoteric but are useful in practice (e.g. Retina) < 1575066239 500990 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :exploit programming is pretty similar to esoprogramming < 1575066249 481700 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-7.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think "I know it when I see it" is not a good policy for administrations. < 1575066256 762581 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1575066258 775361 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there have been cases where I've wanted to write programs and an esolang (or wimpmode version of it) has been the best choice to write them in < 1575066264 144461 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, Mouse was also definitely intended to be useful < 1575066275 616524 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is removing things from the wiki particularly important? < 1575066282 165803 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-7.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Byt, yes, there is stuff like ROP, exploit programming, C++ templates, and other stuff like that. < 1575066284 472847 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Are you proving Funge-98 a non-esoteric language by being useful? < 1575066284 625157 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: did i have emacs which is basically... l(x) 1 x*l(x) fnord x) < 1575066288 607161 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can you give an example for that? < 1575066293 462918 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I think exploit programming is an example of a "found language", those tend to be similar to esolangs but with the difference that they aren't being actively designed by a human < 1575066294 552404 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that's Emacs. < 1575066299 516618 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah < 1575066305 553818 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I called 'accidental esoteric languages' above < 1575066309 714351 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ templates are somewhere in the middle < 1575066312 68756 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: no no < 1575066321 244374 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :TMP was first discovered and then augmented < 1575066327 40585 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: just because it's useful doesn't make it non-esoteric, as long as it was originally not intended as useful < 1575066331 966102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: the test driver for the CGCC polyglot is partially written in A Pear Tree (which was more convenient than Perl because I needed the repr builtin) < 1575066341 37160 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I put Qoppa on the wiki. I designed it to demonstrate an interesting concept, and as a sort of tarpit version of scheme, and because it tickles my happy place < 1575066347 582760 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-7.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think stuff should not be removed from the wiki unless it is a waste of disk space or if it is clearly just "lakjselk jaslg" and not any proper writing that is meaningful in any possible kind of way. < 1575066347 973644 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't particularly designed to be difficult to program in < 1575066363 829571 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I wrote the original Forte interpreter in a wimpmode version of Thutu, because it seemed like the easiest language to use < 1575066365 412523 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it has an evaluation model very different from almost all extant languages < 1575066365 640268 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funge-98 has the smell of being designed to be basically "Befunge, but useful". < 1575066371 435241 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1575066380 554901 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-7.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, maybe there are a few other possibilities, too) < 1575066385 317908 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the spam pages should be made into real languages < 1575066393 656390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :likewise, there's at least one language that I implemented in Jelly, although competition languages are a little different from esolangs < 1575066394 286530 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :my opinion is this: Languages everyone uses, like Rust, C++, Java, etc, and are explictly designed for everyone to use, do not belong on esolangs < 1575066403 654078 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like RFNHS3SDD < 1575066416 643366 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-7.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yes, if you are able to do so. < 1575066424 957775 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, and I suspect that blsq was used usefully as well < 1575066437 824152 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in that they're designed for accomplashing a specific purpose, but are optimized for very different goals than normal languages are) < 1575066453 446677 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*accomplishing < 1575066454 863977 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-7.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: I think that is (mostly) reasonable. < 1575066486 570505 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: note i make an exception for languages intended for everyone to use, but not ment to be used in this universe < 1575066492 615477 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :because why not < 1575066494 737206 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: competition languages like the ones for ICFP? < 1575066506 349475 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: no, languages designed for winning competitions < 1575066519 727792 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Jelly is ment for winning codegolf competitions < 1575066522 22210 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly golfing languages, although in theory they aren't the only examples of the genre < 1575066525 961430 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-7.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: OK, although I do not quite understand how that is. < 1575066527 861555 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1575066531 512426 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :„Every Input is a Program“ < 1575066572 625946 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ideal competition language has a huge number of builtins and a lot of ability to cope with incompletely specified programs < 1575066597 393821 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ICFP langs are very interesting too < 1575066600 432087 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they would count as eso- < 1575066605 884106 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're trying to come up with a working program as quickly as possible, for example, you want to be able to just translate the problem you're given into a working version of it < 1575066607 196811 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i.e. languages ment to be used in fictional universes, like a programming language that was made for use in a sci-fi book < 1575066620 507457 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-7.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: O, OK. < 1575066624 457930 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ook! < 1575066632 743626 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how about when someone asks a homework programming question on a forum, and I write an obfuscated program as a solution with the hope that they'll submit it for the homework, and that program involves an interpreter of a new domain-specific language? is that language esoteric then? < 1575066670 301057 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: is anyone else going to use the DSL? No? Then I think it counts for esolangs. < 1575066672 456035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I'm not sure whether domain-specific languages are automatically esoteric < 1575066687 202456 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's not the domain-specific part that's relevant here < 1575066698 167568 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be a general purpose but small language < 1575066699 370177 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-7.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think sometimes you will not know for now if anyone else is going to use the DSL < 1575066704 149035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think being a DSL is relevant here < 1575066713 170007 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly a write-only one that requires an assembler to use < 1575066713 769543 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because those are a language category of their own < 1575066719 364268 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :DSLs are icky territory < 1575066722 449736 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is C-INTERCAL's internal DSL OIL an esolang, for example? < 1575066724 593709 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't publish the assembler < 1575066726 819373 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they can easily fall under my rules < 1575066749 169650 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like https://esolangs.org/wiki/Help,_WarDoq! is definitely both a DSL and an esolang, just because the domain in question is so ridiculous < 1575066779 747949 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you can certainly have a domain-specific esolang in general < 1575066810 59266 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ICFP ant brain is one such language, < 1575066838 349902 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is, I can imagine a language that's very similar to Help, WarDoq but invented for a much more practical purpose < 1575066844 294237 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of making a esolang that's a DSP DSL < 1575066868 929596 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, there's a very simple programming language used as an on-the-wire format for telling electronic traffic signs what sign they should be showing < 1575066870 711545 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :some strange eso way of defining signal processing pipelines < 1575066873 811693 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for audio and RF applications < 1575066873 928765 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is basically the same thing < 1575066885 617581 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought of it being sort of concatenative < 1575066887 478021 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure that's even definable as a language, let alone an esolang < 1575066896 686698 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd have a stack of things which are signals or matrices or filters or whatever < 1575066897 381894 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-7.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yes lets see please < 1575066900 827260 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can apply them < 1575066903 328773 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea: something that is definitely esoteric but only questionably a programming language < 1575066910 249430 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(esoteric in the programming sense, that is) < 1575066928 837741 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but instead of a normal step by step execution model it compiles into a streaming, possibly real-time process < 1575066939 523898 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-7.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think once I did make a stack-based programming language for defining .XI instruments < 1575066941 214066 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there are a lot of esoteric/obfuscated programs that are clearly not languages < 1575066945 722425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only DSP I've ever used was entirely imperative < 1575066953 27734 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: oh right, one-off programs < 1575066969 521000 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the 99 bottles of beer program in Malbolge < 1575066973 62521 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :primitive types would be complex numbers, matrices, and timeseries data < 1575066987 971377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you make something like that /ambiguously/ a language, though? < 1575066988 362124 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-7.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The data types are numbers, strings, audio samples (with an optional loop point), and functions (which can be built from other functions, too).) < 1575066990 288874 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :an example program would be something like a FM broadcast radio decoder < 1575067009 569485 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy to get I/Q samples from a RTL-SDR < 1575067031 275703 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and dump PCM data to a sound card < 1575067037 912668 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the hardware aspect would be relatively accessible < 1575067038 97314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, it would be nice to document more found languages on the wiki < 1575067052 417646 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how about a one-off program that has an interpreter in it for compression, but the interpreter is very specialized (DSL) that it's unclear if it's even an interpreter or just a nice table or compression format? < 1575067053 441557 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-7.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I would like to see how to do with that radio decoding and that stuff < 1575067065 223342 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like the x86 (or was it x86_64) MMU, which is a bounded-storage machine < 1575067090 724862 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: hmm, now you're reminding me of quines < 1575067100 834184 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-7.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: If it is Turing-complete (even if not intended to be) then it might be notable. < 1575067111 565790 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah < 1575067121 557670 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how about OTTD signals? < 1575067122 869209 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a quine is a description of itself, but because it can't be a literal quote of itself (assuming it isn't a literal-only quine) it needs to define some shorthand for describing itself < 1575067130 378 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: OTTD? < 1575067142 421294 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :open transport tycoon deluxe, the game with railway tracks < 1575067164 296147 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the signals (traffic signals to direct trains on railways) became quite capable and can evaluate boolean expressions < 1575067175 697913 :kingoffrance!~x__@c-67-161-241-22.hsd1.ut.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quine sounds like munchausen number < 1575067184 599782 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wiki.openttd.org/Main_Page < 1575067196 508335 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that normally gets abbreviated to OpenTTD < 1575067202 696944 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1575067203 812687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just didn't recognise the abbreviation you were using < 1575067245 240799 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then there's the unpack template language in perl, which happens to be way more powerful thank it should be https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=1008395 < 1575067260 357340 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not turing-complete alone, but quite powerful < 1575067279 227620 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me guess, you overwrite the format string while it's being decoded using some sort of pointer unpack? < 1575067323 999273 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1575067341 801722 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1575067343 63396 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think unpack can do that easily, it can only read from pointers, not write to it < 1575067344 933240 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that might /actually/ be TC < 1575067353 287483 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(printf is TC for this reason) < 1575067358 43125 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, C printf < 1575067368 517268 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the arguments you have to give it are insanely undefined behaviour < 1575067430 960418 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something I learned the other day: the 'l' and 'll' length modifiers are also applicable to %n, to convert the required argument from `int *` to `long *` or `long long *` respectively. < 1575067457 484594 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone over on ##c was complaining because their implementation's printf was unable to write more than INT_MAX characters of output. < 1575067489 75425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could in theory be a problem that comes up in a sane program < 1575067496 643493 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know that the XC8 compiler for PIC supports a "short long int" type? < 1575067517 103901 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :glibc stops processing the format string and returns -1 with errno set to EOVERFLOW when the output exceeds INT_MAX. < 1575067523 225490 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: wtf is short long? < 1575067523 339735 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun, https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/112163 is still the only perl answer to the game of life interpreter question, even though it wouldn't be hard to write a more straightforward golfier implementation < 1575067534 161871 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: it's shorter than a long but longer than a short. < 1575067536 239643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :files bigger than 2GB aren't ridiculous, and using a printf("…%s…") to output them wrapped in a header and footer is mildly ridiculous but not indefensible < 1575067539 581231 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :24 bits < 1575067539 681085 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: that is awesome. < 1575067543 593618 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1575067543 667446 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I remember a "short long" from somewhere. < 1575067549 520090 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and actually useful on embedded < 1575067555 153417 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yeah, the program in question was unreasonable, though. < 1575067567 717559 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if avr-gcc has anything comparable < 1575067574 421391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd expect long short to be shorter than int, and short long to be longer < 1575067582 39161 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but these days, every C compiller has a long long type that's at least 64 bit long, and intmax_t must be at least that long < 1575067595 379353 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, Algol 68 lets you write arbitrarily many long or short, but not to mix them < 1575067605 120298 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems it does have it, as __uint24 < 1575067611 159325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there's the equivalent of a preprocessor definition you can consult to discover how many repeats will actually do something useful) < 1575067640 717387 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but any algol 68 impl should support long long long long long, even if it's just equivalent to long long < 1575067641 136428 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the old borland C compiler that targets 16-bit x86_32 lets you write any number of long, and interprets it as just long. it's a nice way to get programs silently break if they try to use long long. < 1575067661 151303 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo 'long long long x;' | gcc -c -x c /dev/stdin < 1575067662 106164 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/dev/stdin:1:11: error: ‘long long long’ is too long for GCC < 1575067665 627069 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it implies that choosing "long long" as the name of that type was a bad idea, but it's too late to undo that now < 1575067688 78627 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo 'long short x;' | gcc -c -x c /dev/stdin < 1575067690 388055 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/dev/stdin:1:6: error: both ‘long’ and ‘short’ in declaration specifiers < 1575067701 87266 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo 'short short x;' | gcc -c -x c /dev/stdin < 1575067702 29838 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/dev/stdin:1:7: error: duplicate ‘short’ < 1575067724 244915 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, IMO the error messages should have had consistent levels of humour < 1575067739 328845 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` gcc -c -x c <(echo 'long long long x;') # seems like a nicer way actually < 1575067740 273721 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/dev/fd/63:1:11: error: ‘long long long’ is too long for GCC < 1575067751 241533 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! c long long long x; < 1575067752 712491 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does not compile. < 1575067756 81410 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep forgetting about <(...). it's pretty great < 1575067776 385846 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cc long long long x; < 1575067777 290168 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​:1:11: error: ‘long long long’ is too long for GCC \ compilation terminated due to -Wfatal-errors. < 1575067781 397815 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cbt cc < 1575067782 145989 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ echo "$@" | sed 's/\\/\n/g' | gcc -w -Wfatal-errors -std=c11 -O2 -x c - -o /tmp/a.out && /tmp/a.out < 1575067783 141040 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` gcc -Wall -O -o /hackenv/tmp/a.out -x c <<<$'int main(void) { signed unsigned x = {0}; return 0; }' < 1575067784 62890 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc: warning: '-x c' after last input file has no effect \ gcc: fatal error: no input files \ compilation terminated. < 1575067791 235058 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` gcc -Wall -O -o /hackenv/tmp/a.out -x c - <<<$'int main(void) { signed unsigned x = {0}; return 0; }' < 1575067792 159931 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​: In function 'main': \ :1:25: error: both 'signed' and 'unsigned' in declaration specifiers \ :1:34: warning: unused variable 'x' [-Wunused-variable] < 1575067798 6923 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` gcc -c -x c <<<'long long long x;' < 1575067798 836359 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc: warning: ‘-x c’ after last input file has no effect \ gcc: fatal error: no input files \ compilation terminated. < 1575067802 786160 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's <<<$ < 1575067812 725689 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did gcc's color output disappear by the way? < 1575067813 601146 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` gcc -c -x c /dev/stdin <<<'long long long x;' < 1575067816 423916 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` type -a gcc < 1575067817 8932 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/dev/stdin:1:11: error: ‘long long long’ is too long for GCC \ long long long x; \ ^~~~ < 1575067819 725688 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc is /usr/bin/gcc < 1575067828 468967 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1575067832 381682 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: <<< pipes a literal into standard input < 1575067840 678500 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` gcc -Wall -O -o /hackenv/tmp/a.out -x c - <<<$'int main(void) { short char x = {0}; long char y = {0}; return 0; }' < 1575067841 613278 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​: In function 'main': \ :1:24: error: both 'short' and 'char' in declaration specifiers \ :1:43: error: both 'long' and 'char' in declaration specifiers \ :1:48: warning: unused variable 'y' [-Wunused-variable] \ :1:29: warning: unused variable 'x' [-Wunused-variable] < 1575067861 791972 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` gcc -Wall -O -o /hackenv/tmp/a.out -x c - <<<$'int main(void) { short float [[unused]] x = {0}; return 0; }' < 1575067863 52278 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​: In function 'main': \ :1:24: error: both 'short' and 'float' in declaration specifiers \ :1:30: error: expected identifier or '(' before '[' token < 1575067875 52933 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` gcc -Wall -std=c11 -O -o /hackenv/tmp/a.out -x c - <<<$'int main(void) { short float [[unused]] x = {0}; return 0; }' < 1575067876 12192 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​: In function 'main': \ :1:24: error: both 'short' and 'float' in declaration specifiers \ :1:30: error: expected identifier or '(' before '[' token < 1575067879 410066 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think $'' is some sort of escaped string < 1575067887 161415 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` gcc -c -x c <(echo 'short void x;;') < 1575067887 969367 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? why doesn't it allow an attribute there? < 1575067888 121315 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/dev/fd/63:1:7: error: both ‘short’ and ‘void’ in declaration specifiers < 1575067902 388173 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, allows backslash escapes. useful because C needs newlines sometimes. < 1575067902 424408 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: does C11 support that attribute syntax? < 1575067909 627043 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I think so < 1575067922 464601 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's a C++ism < 1575067925 766640 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check < 1575067925 972727 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, [[unused]] is C18. < 1575067938 989828 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a C18? < 1575067949 388862 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there's a C18. < 1575067955 73487 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` gcc -Wall -std=c18 -O -o /hackenv/tmp/a.out -x c - <<<$'int main(void) { short float [[unused]] x = {0}; return 0; }' < 1575067955 989233 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​: In function 'main': \ :1:24: error: both 'short' and 'float' in declaration specifiers \ :1:30: error: expected identifier or '(' before '[' token < 1575067967 469206 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was it even C18, or was it just in the latest C2x draft? < 1575067969 31100 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this a major release like C11 was? or is it more of a C92 (or was it C94?) type of thing? < 1575067970 265056 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` gcc -Wall -std=c18 -O -o /hackenv/tmp/a.out -x c - <<<$'int main(void) { [[unused]] short float x = {0}; return 0; }' < 1575067971 269780 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​: In function 'main': \ :1:18: error: expected expression before '[' token \ :1:20: error: 'unused' undeclared (first use in this function) \ :1:20: note: each undeclared identifier is reported only once for each function it appears in < 1575067985 24109 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` gcc -Wall -std=c18 -O -o /hackenv/tmp/a.out -x c - <<<$'int main(void) { short float x [[unused]] = {0}; return 0; }' < 1575067985 857035 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​: In function 'main': \ :1:24: error: both 'short' and 'float' in declaration specifiers \ :1:33: error: expected expression before '[' token \ :1:34: error: 'unused' undeclared (first use in this function) \ :1:34: note: each undeclared identifier is reported only once for each function it appears in \ :1:30: warning: unused variable 'x' [-Wunused-variable] < 1575067993 689660 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` gcc -Wall -std=c18 -O -o /hackenv/tmp/a.out -x c - <<<$'int main(void) { volatile short float x = {0}; return 0; }' < 1575067994 540926 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​: In function 'main': \ :1:33: error: both 'short' and 'float' in declaration specifiers \ :1:39: warning: unused variable 'x' [-Wunused-variable] < 1575068016 987686 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: seriously, how did the colors of gcc output disappear? < 1575068019 172253 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's more of a bugfix-only release with no new features. < 1575068025 319102 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` gcc -fdiagnostics-color=always -x c <<<'int eger = x;' < 1575068026 112565 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​gcc: warning: ‘-x c’ after last input file has no effect \ gcc: fatal error: no input files \ compilation terminated. < 1575068027 675233 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : C18 addressed defects in C11 without introducing new language features. < 1575068036 805110 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that would explain why there's no big fanfare about it < 1575068041 735787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bugfix releases are good too, though < 1575068043 533943 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, but how come it doesn't do that by default now? < 1575068053 772045 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: It's probably because I made stderr piped into the same cat as stdout. < 1575068057 768234 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah! < 1575068059 103175 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's great < 1575068060 756516 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1575068061 387755 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume previously it used isatty on 2. < 1575068088 819460 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well, still does, but with a different result. < 1575068204 196317 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` strace -e trace=ioctl gcc -x c <<<'int eger = x;' < 1575068205 44543 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :ioctl(2, TCGETS, 0x7fbff589e0) = -1 ENOTTY (Inappropriate ioctl for device) \ ioctl(2, TCGETS, 0x7fbff58a00) = -1 ENOTTY (Inappropriate ioctl for device) \ gcc: warning: ‘-x c’ after last input file has no effect \ gcc: fatal error: no input files \ compilation terminated. \ +++ exited with 1 +++ < 1575068247 248368 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was idly wondering how isatty worked, then noticed fstat in the see also on the man page, so I was guessing it statted the file descriptor and looked at the device numbers < 1575068266 298813 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does a tcgetattr() != -1. < 1575068275 398360 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` strace -e trace=fstat gcc -x c < 1575068276 201358 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :fstat(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=1579448, ...}) = 0 \ fstat(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=1824496, ...}) = 0 \ fstat(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=3040656, ...}) = 0 \ gcc: warning: ‘-x c’ after last input file has no effect \ gcc: fatal error: no input files \ compilation terminated. \ +++ exited with 1 +++ < 1575068307 152791 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And tcgetattr devolves to ioctl.) < 1575068331 541934 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems broken, mightn't some other device use the same ioctl number? < 1575068346 591592 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there are several ioctls that work only on terminals, and yes, the one that implements tcgetattr is among them < 1575068360 486520 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that won't happen on Linux < 1575068365 226249 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only know how it works because I was trying to figure out if there was a way to fake it that wouldn't involve running a cat process. < 1575068368 632899 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : The second argument is a device-dependent request code. < 1575068369 982920 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and glibc can rely on linux-internal stuff like that < 1575068388 905295 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: glibc. this doesn't need to be portable to all systems. < 1575068395 832545 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it works on linux and hurd it's enough < 1575068411 480783 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :glibc depends on a lot of linux-specific stuff < 1575068413 888489 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :has to really < 1575068418 340795 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does Linux have an actual rule of "no sharing ioctl numbers between different types of devices"? < 1575068422 272490 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1575068430 760451 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think some of the small numbers are shared < 1575068434 833319 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess patches would probably be rejected if you tried to use a widely used ioctl number like that for something else < 1575068440 465281 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't share numbers in any newly introduced ioctls < 1575068446 345892 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the sharing are for historical reasons < 1575068450 161753 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC ioctl numbers are namespaced to some extent < 1575068456 361902 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1575068479 703595 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the namespace tells the size of the struct that its argument points to, and whether it's used for input or output < 1575068493 625779 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this too is true only for new ioctl numbers, old ones remain for historical reasons < 1575068532 578084 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Documentation/ioctl/ioctl-number.txt has a the range assignments. < 1575068534 628218 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man2/ioctl_list.2.html has some docs < 1575068536 752153 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of "conflict!"s. < 1575068575 307515 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, TCGETS is 0x5401, and 0x54 == 'T' < 1575068702 84634 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, might as well ask y'all -- let's suppose I have a tty device, and I want the things a program writes get written there, but if the program does isatty(1) I want it to return 0. Is there a more elegant way than redirecting the program's output to a fifo, and having another process copy all the data from the fifo to the device? < 1575068797 261693 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that sounds esoteric. why would you want that? if you just want programs not to write color codes, try TERM=dumb < 1575068809 925164 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(some programs will still write carriage returns then) < 1575068815 696965 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's seccomp_filter but that's likely less elegant rather than more elegant < 1575068817 275100 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and some programs will write color codes anyway) < 1575068834 382279 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not for me, it's for HackEso. < 1575068865 61445 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEso having TERM=dumb would make sense though < 1575068866 123566 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you figure out what was going on with the bizarreness a while ago? < 1575068881 806397 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively, HackEso translating ASCII color codes to IRC color codes would also make sense < 1575068884 127223 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea is, what /dev/tty1 is *actually* connected is a pipe outside the UML kernel, and shouldn't be treated as a TTY. Cf. that gcc color output, for example. < 1575068888 792951 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: using a custom terminfo that has IRC color and format codes would be even better for esoteric value < 1575068894 789810 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the ::=echo weirdness? < 1575068895 68150 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::shachaf: the weirdness? < 1575068914 576232 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The HackEso output being truncated thing. < 1575068918 805580 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Having TERM=dumb would make sense, though I think most programs do the TTY check. < 1575068929 518298 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes, I think I did, but I can't remember. At least it got fixed. < 1575068931 381240 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :TODO self: make such a terminfo; make a better ! c and ! c++ wrapper; make an addwhatis command < 1575068933 117137 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-7.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some programs support a NO_COLOR environment variable to disable colours. < 1575068944 735520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: right, but many programs also use terminfo and friends to work out how to display colors < 1575068957 505771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if they conclude that stdout is a terminal but doesn't support color, they'll do the right thing < 1575068963 97850 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: programs do those two checks for different reasons < 1575068974 364793 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, for the color part. < 1575068986 615035 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think there's more behavioral changes they can do when it's not a terminal. < 1575068995 54829 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's unclear whether we want the terminal or non-terminal output, though < 1575069003 92737 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEso is effectively a terminal wrt the way it's used < 1575069016 795492 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um :=echo hi < 1575069017 46294 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::um hi < 1575069018 889628 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we want the output programs produce when used interactively, not the batch-process output < 1575069021 519109 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the < 1575069027 212311 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well... not if it's a progress bar or a spinner. < 1575069031 48991 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is bfbot parsing IRC messages wrong? < 1575069041 643114 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo :=echo bar :qux < 1575069041 875568 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::foo :=echo bar bar :qux < 1575069045 678544 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1575069053 849866 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect it's parsing IRC messages wrong < 1575069067 133402 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like searches for " :=" in it < 1575069067 261857 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like searches for " :No such command. Try =help. < 1575069074 92118 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo:=echo bar < 1575069074 371538 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :bar < 1575069074 541473 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well, the only reason that's bad is that the cursor movement (even \r or \b) doesn't work correctly < 1575069076 365278 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1575069079 519240 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's even worse < 1575069105 130432 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's probably half a command in bfbot's output that got eaten by the ircd < 1575069114 661338 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :=echo < 1575069114 919679 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo < 1575069125 799941 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :=echo < 1575069126 83550 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo < 1575069140 773193 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1575069144 834667 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I bet the ircd added the colon anyway < 1575069155 810259 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the second =echo was sent without the colon) < 1575069169 873303 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, ircd fixes the messages so that clients are easy to write < 1575069172 486903 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's always a colon < 1575069182 157138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's technically only needed to escape multi-character arguments, though < 1575069194 346727 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but always adding it is probably easier for consistency < 1575069196 58237 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*multi-word < 1575069206 474629 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically yes, but the ircd wants to accept more and produce less to make clients easy to write < 1575069207 760630 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I just think it's not trivial to make it look enough "like a terminal", esp. when programs start to use more than one line of output, or ask about terminal width/height to draw a dialog in the middle of the screen. < 1575069232 719610 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, take a program like apt < 1575069236 707613 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also changes MODE and KICK commands so that MODE commands set at most four modes and KICK kick at most one nick when it outputs them, even though it accepts more on input < 1575069242 689983 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and more things like that < 1575069244 716231 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it complains whenever its output isn't a terminal < 1575069257 820028 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it canonicalizes the capitalization of channel anmes < 1575069260 489213 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's not intended to have stable output < 1575069275 223637 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that clients don't have to casefold channel names to find which channel they're receiving something in < 1575069276 387409 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I don't really like that complaint. < 1575069276 625937 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the use via HackEso is interactive < 1575069296 849653 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I use "apt search ... | grep ..." semi-often.) < 1575069314 286858 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: in that case we'll pass the right command-line argument to programs so that they don't do those things < 1575069340 359042 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: eg. we'll use git status -bs because the output of git status would be unreadable < 1575069366 475431 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, sure, there might some benefits to getting the terminal-style output. But I remain unconvinced it would be an overall improvement. < 1575069389 200151 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I suspect that no terminal is probably better, < 1575069397 190630 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but terminal might be more suitable for HackEso's esotericness < 1575069442 218078 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :programs can output human-readable things even when the output isn't a terminal, eg. you're running them in a cronjob < 1575069478 620322 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it's a terminal, they may expect interactive use of the program, though they usually check isatty(0) for that, not isatty(1) or isatty(2) < 1575069504 292634 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sometimes they expect interactivity even if only isatty(2) < 1575069529 964694 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think no terminal is probably better since you terminate the program after each command < 1575069541 380516 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can't just continue to give it more input like we can in termbot < 1575069576 137026 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously we can override either way in individual commands, with |cat or with script resp < 1575069597 529438 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: As far as I can tell, I didn't quite figure out all the details in the truncation thing, but sufficiently to determine that it was linked with using a 'fd:N' where N is a /dev/null file descriptor instead of the special 'null' channel in the UML console specification. < 1575069644 336989 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Incidentally, I toyed around using a 512-byte block device as the stdout file descriptor, too. < 1575069648 145693 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm wait < 1575069686 770349 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@run "hello =echo world" < 1575069688 605976 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd have the benefit (of sorts) that writes that the user would never see anyway (because of IRC length limits) would fail with ENOSPC, naturally terminating the program. Well, some programs, anyway. < 1575069689 293739 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : "hello =echo world" < 1575069694 491475 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@run "hello :"++"=echo world" < 1575069697 166000 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : "hello :=echo world" < 1575069697 451798 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :: "hello world" < 1575069777 833926 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :One reason why I didn't explore that more was because it'd be super hackbot-specific, and umlbox is to some degree a general tool. < 1575069781 390824 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (=echo world)(hello :)SS < 1575069781 426411 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello :=echo world < 1575069781 699705 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::hello world < 1575069802 95140 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :=echo ^help < 1575069802 383417 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^help < 1575069804 293258 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :=echo @help < 1575069804 564580 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help < 1575069815 891966 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :=echo `help < 1575069816 151122 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1575069816 194030 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch [] " downloads files. Files saved to $HACKENV are persistent, and $HACKENV/bin is in $PATH. $HACKENV is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert, https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/ to browse. $PWD ($HACKENV/tmp) is persistent but unversioned, /tmp is ephemeral. < 1575069825 734851 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ut-oh. < 1575069829 769931 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1575069855 7473 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :=echo `echo :=echo hi < 1575069855 261380 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::=echo `echo hi < 1575069858 704897 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it just crossed my mind that with umlbox and WSL, Linux is now cross-platform software: it runs on both Linux and Windows < 1575069878 127487 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's almost certainly loopable, and I don't have a natural way to make it not. < 1575069883 440466 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Linux runs on several processor types < 1575069895 26027 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo :=echo check < 1575069895 282719 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::`echo check < 1575069895 727828 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​:=echo check < 1575069895 851379 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :check < 1575069922 246325 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, maybe the : that seems to end up in all the "middle commands" saves it. < 1575069932 988660 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfbot: yes, but I mean it runs on multiple operating systems < 1575069936 699054 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :=str 1s++++[->++++<]>[->++>+++>++++>+++++>++++++>+++++++<<<<<<]> >>>>.++.++++.----.+++++++++++++.>++++.<---.+++..>----. < 1575069936 879133 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1575069943 885689 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :=def 1prefixes < 1575069943 970788 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, defined 'prefixes' < 1575069960 440751 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1575069962 514804 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn it < 1575069974 251232 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shouldn't have overwritten the prefixes macro < 1575069976 18323 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`prefixes < 1575069977 243429 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ , bfbot =. < 1575070001 415774 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :=str 1s++++[->++++<]>[->++>+++>++++>+++++>++++++>+++++++<<<<<<]> >>++.>>+++++++++++++++.>++++.<<<<<.>>>>>----.++.<----------.+.+++.>++++++.<----.>-----.<<<<++++++++++.<.>>>>+.>++.<++++++++.-------.++++++++.>-.<<<<<.>>>++++++++++++++.<<<++++++++++++.------------.>>++++++.>>--------------.++.++++++++.<<---.>>>-.<++++. < 1575070001 536746 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1575070006 403084 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :=str 1a<<<<.>>>>---------------.<<<<++++++++++++.------------.>>.>>+++++++.++++++++.<<---.>>.>+.<<<<<.+.+++++++++++.------------.>>>>---.-----------.++++++++++++.-----------.++.---.+.+++++++++++++.>.<<<<<.>>--.<<.>>>>.>--.<<<<<.>+++++.<++++++++++++.------------.>>>>>++.<-------.>+.-.+.<------.+++++++++++++.>-.<<<<<. < 1575070006 535149 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1575070011 408414 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :=str 1a+++++++++++.+.------------.>>>>--.--------.>.<----.>-.<++++.>---.<++++.--------.<<<<.>>>>>++++++++++++++.<<<<<++++++++++++.------------.>>>>++++++++.-----.>------------.<+++++.>+.<<<<<+++++++++++++.>>>>-------.+++++++++++++.>+.<<<<<-------------.++++++++.--------.++++++++++++.------------.>>>>-----.-------.++ < 1575070011 550736 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1575070016 418427 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :=str 1a++++++++++.-..<<<<.+++++++++.---------.++++++++++++.------------.>>>>----.<<<<+++++++++++++.>>>>--------.+++++++++++++.>.<<<<<-------------.>>>---.<<<.++++++++++++.------------.>>>>-------------.++++.----.+++++++++++++.>.<<<<<.>--.<++++++++++++++. < 1575070016 549461 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1575070020 439206 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :=def 1prefixes < 1575070020 492452 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, defined 'prefixes' < 1575070020 636061 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :=prefixes < 1575070020 804319 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ , bfbot =. < 1575070073 742927 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :=str 1s++++[->++++<]>[->++>+++>++++>+++++>++++++>+++++++<<<<<<]> >>>>.++.++++.----.+++++++++++++.>++++.---.++++.<------.+++++.---------. < 1575070073 878765 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1575070076 205229 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does :=prefixes do then? < 1575070076 289089 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ , bfbot =. < 1575070087 778053 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :=def 1hackesoquine < 1575070087 941871 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, defined 'hackesoquine' < 1575070093 271504 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :=hackesoquine < 1575070093 438156 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bfbotquine < 1575070094 123951 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfbotquine? No such file or directory < 1575070098 919045 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :fizzie < 1575070105 220812 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Just getting prepared.) < 1575070116 472491 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :=str 1s + < 1575070116 616953 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1575070125 149222 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :=def 1hackesoquin < 1575070125 295265 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, defined 'hackesoquin' < 1575070127 383760 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :=hackesoquin < 1575070155 229434 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :did it work. < 1575070157 474353 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :=str 1s ++++++++[->++++++++<]+. < 1575070157 661739 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1575070162 278351 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :=def 1hackesoquin < 1575070162 366617 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, defined 'hackesoquin' < 1575070164 829785 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :=hackesoquin < 1575070164 915653 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1575070175 268094 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :=str 1s ++++++++[->++++++++<]>+. < 1575070175 398022 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1575070177 242500 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :=def 1hackesoquin < 1575070177 311962 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, defined 'hackesoquin' < 1575070178 824843 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :=hackesoquin < 1575070178 903837 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :A < 1575070183 205132 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :=hackesoquine < 1575070183 367187 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bfbotquine < 1575070184 57930 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfbotquine? No such file or directory < 1575070189 158685 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :ais523 < 1575070217 384896 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((=echo ^ul )SaS(:^)S):^ < 1575070217 449895 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` set -e; f=/hackenv/bin/bfbotquine; rm -f "$f" < 1575070217 486646 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :=echo ^ul ((=echo ^ul )SaS(:^)S):^ < 1575070217 733678 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((=echo ^ul )SaS(:^)S):^ < 1575070219 347533 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1575070223 845573 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` set -e; f=/hackenv/bin/bfbotquine; rm -vf "$f" < 1575070224 711554 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1575070234 727054 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, fungot is ignoring bfbot < 1575070234 940355 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i just happens that matthew needs to bump the version when he's changing the core. but i guess it's kind of " industry standard" < 1575070240 612229 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :=def 1hackesoquin < 1575070240 759711 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, defined 'hackesoquin' < 1575070241 835672 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yeah, manually. < 1575070262 110279 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! underload (test)S < 1575070262 995938 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1575070278 337451 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! underload ((=echo `! underload )SaS(:^)S):^ < 1575070279 147884 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​=echo `! underload ((=echo `! underload )SaS(:^)S):^ < 1575070292 343386 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! underload ((t:=echo `! underload )SaS(:^)S):^ < 1575070292 634645 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! underload )SaS(:^)S):^ < 1575070293 440039 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :t:=echo `! underload ((t:=echo `! underload )SaS(:^)S):^ < 1575070293 562522 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! underload )SaS(:^)S):^ < 1575070294 32084 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error: Unmatched ) < 1575070294 664082 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error: Unmatched ) < 1575070302 81725 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I assume a bfbot/HackEso loop just needs HackEso to output "whatever :=foo" on `bar, and bfbot output "`bar" on =foo. < 1575070302 231420 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I assume a bfbot/HackEso loop just needs HackEso to output "whatever :No such command. Try =help. < 1575070327 155852 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` set -e; f=/hackenv/bin/STOP; >$f echo $'#!/bin/sh\nrm -vf /hackenv/bin/bfbotquine'; chmod -c a+x "$f" < 1575070331 880562 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :mode of '/hackenv/bin/STOP' changed from 0644 (rw-r--r--) to 0755 (rwxr-xr-x) < 1575070350 580156 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a:=echo 1 :=echo 2 < 1575070350 874218 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::a:=echo 1 2 < 1575070357 383830 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` set -e; f=/hackenv/bin/bfbotquine; >$f echo $'#!/bin/sh\necho hello, world'; chmod -c a+x "$f" < 1575070359 567869 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :mode of '/hackenv/bin/bfbotquine' changed from 0644 (rw-r--r--) to 0755 (rwxr-xr-x) < 1575070360 898073 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bfbotquine < 1575070361 576192 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello, world < 1575070363 272061 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`STOP < 1575070364 509782 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, if there are multiple :=s in a line, bfbot runs the /last/ < 1575070365 168629 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :removed '/hackenv/bin/bfbotquine' < 1575070366 887435 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bfbotquine < 1575070367 592586 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfbotquine? No such file or directory < 1575070383 210019 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! underload ((t:)S(=echo `! underload )SaS(:^)S):^ < 1575070384 240011 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :t:=echo `! underload ((t:)S(=echo `! underload )SaS(:^)S):^ < 1575070384 398324 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! underload ((t:)S(=echo `! underload )SaS(:^)S):^ < 1575070385 204138 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :t:=echo `! underload ((t:)S(=echo `! underload )SaS(:^)S):^ < 1575070385 468965 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! underload ((t:)S(=echo `! underload )SaS(:^)S):^ < 1575070386 355979 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :t:=echo `! underload ((t:)S(=echo `! underload )SaS(:^)S):^ < 1575070386 464137 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! underload ((t:)S(=echo `! underload )SaS(:^)S):^ < 1575070387 319777 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :t:=echo `! underload ((t:)S(=echo `! underload )SaS(:^)S):^ < 1575070387 395548 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 MODE #esoteric +q :bfbot!*@* < 1575070393 71102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 MODE #esoteric -q :bfbot!*@* < 1575070393 229915 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys, if this becomes a loop and I am not disconnected, please run this: =def 1hackesoquine < 1575070396 806138 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1575070397 65741 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys, if this becomes a loop and I am not disconnected, please run this: `STOP < 1575070414 275349 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :+q best mode for breaking loops < 1575070417 739166 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` set -e; f=/hackenv/bin/bfbotquine; >$f echo $'#!/bin/sh\necho ":=hackesoquine"'; chmod -c a+x "$f" < 1575070417 864128 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :No such command. Try =help. < 1575070419 849819 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :mode of '/hackenv/bin/bfbotquine' changed from 0644 (rw-r--r--) to 0755 (rwxr-xr-x) < 1575070420 7965 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I guess +m would also work) < 1575070428 906022 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :=hackesoquine < 1575070429 75781 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bfbotquine < 1575070429 808140 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​:=hackesoquine < 1575070429 879140 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bfbotquine < 1575070430 544562 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​:=hackesoquine < 1575070430 670352 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bfbotquine < 1575070431 136960 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think you beat me by some milliseconds. < 1575070431 320185 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​:=hackesoquine < 1575070431 381278 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bfbotquine < 1575070431 721971 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`STOP < 1575070432 99605 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​:=hackesoquine < 1575070432 143170 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bfbotquine < 1575070432 338441 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 MODE #esoteric +q :bfbot!*@* < 1575070434 376684 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​:=hackesoquine < 1575070435 467503 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :removed '/hackenv/bin/bfbotquine' < 1575070436 834286 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 MODE #esoteric -q :bfbot!*@* < 1575070442 202667 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :=def 1hackesoquine < 1575070442 339270 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, defined 'hackesoquine' < 1575070450 740896 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :=hackesoquine < 1575070450 908115 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :A < 1575070453 212037 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bfbotquine < 1575070454 750318 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfbotquine? No such file or directory < 1575070456 415265 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: out of interest, what was your preferred loop-breaking method? < 1575070457 986002 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok good < 1575070471 133951 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I had /mode #esoteric +q bfbot!*@* waiting on the input line as well. < 1575070473 427431 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, HackEso does not ignore bfbot? < 1575070494 42266 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: HackEso doesn't generally ignore known bots. < 1575070496 451911 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: can you please modify your bot? < 1575070511 492660 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: triggering on := anywhere in the irc line seems like a bad idea < 1575070511 631973 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: triggering on :No such command. Try =help. < 1575070511 793195 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, I could have broken the loop earlier, but wanted to make sure it was a true loop first < 1575070519 936511 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(isn't there some code in lambdabot that tends to stop loops after four iterations?) < 1575070523 819926 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hmm. < 1575070533 289662 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 MODE #esoteric -o :ais523 < 1575070543 579937 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Not that I know of. But it should be ignoring bfbot. < 1575070551 245715 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fungto has such a code < 1575070560 254363 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: The "add a zero-width space in front of non-alphanumeric messages" feature stops most loops, it's just that bfbot's "parse a command in the middle of the output" defeats that. < 1575070573 349206 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1575070598 415989 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, the most surprising thing about that loop was that `! underload actually works < 1575070619 976247 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That said, there is an ignore list, currently ['Lymia', 'Lymee', 'Madoka-Kaname'] which is... just a little out of date. < 1575070646 293356 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even recall any Madoka-Kaname < 1575070668 418620 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know that a loop that involves some quining technique is cooler, but I deliberately used a user-defined command in both bots to make it easier to break the loop on either end < 1575070672 734334 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :=echo `foo < 1575070673 1714 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`foo < 1575070673 97856 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmmmm... no. < 1575070681 166389 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably best to put bfbot on HackEgo's ignore list, BF isn't the most robust language to write loop-proof bots in < 1575070699 406916 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfbot: well, quines are pretty much trivial to write in Underload so it's my usual choice for botloops < 1575070699 746793 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't think it's written in bf < 1575070707 365803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: bfbot? < 1575070708 637113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do < 1575070710 107097 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1575070713 283654 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1575070721 792775 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just look at who wrote it < 1575070723 316691 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it's called bfbot because it interprets bf < 1575070734 331540 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they mentioned it being written in bash? Not sure I paid enough attention. < 1575070750 824488 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, boring < 1575070762 692901 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on what it does, it definitely could be written in bf < 1575070784 365171 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :=def 1$(hostname) < 1575070784 498545 :bfbot!~bfbot@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error: Name can contain only lowercase letters and digits. < 1575070785 494228 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: kspalaiologos wrote it because fungot's bf interpreter timed out too quickly. if he wrote it in bf, then he would have to use a bf interpreter in bf, which is rather slow, so that would mostly defeat the purpose < 1575070785 582963 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: the problem with object-orientation is that it's standard, you have < 1575070805 112255 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: oh, because BF doesn't self-compose well due to only having one tape < 1575070813 206306 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric : Bfbot is written in Seed :) < 1575070820 37656 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :seed? < 1575070837 727784 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that's our Seed, it's probably a joke. < 1575070839 641650 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: it's a language which interprets the output of a random number generator as Befunge < 1575070853 86097 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the program is just the random number generator seed < 1575070858 149443 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1575070874 526030 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the RNG it's using is the Mersenne Twister which is not cryptosecure, so you basically just need a preimage algorithm < 1575070876 96766 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos mentioned something about some program written by someone other than him in bash to blame for for why it swallows backslashes in the output < 1575070892 816401 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/logs/2019-11-22.html#lbe is where I got the bash from. < 1575070893 913961 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe "Seed" is the name of more than one thing? < 1575070897 823029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thutubot used a bash wrapper to actually do the connection of the bot to IRC < 1575070918 102195 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, more than one language might be involved. < 1575070921 766035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, kspalaiologos almost certainly has a befunge → seed compiler < 1575070945 151539 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie MODE #esoteric -o :fizzie < 1575070947 270320 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops, forgot. < 1575070969 399859 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Incidentally, I switched umlbox to use a protobuf for the configuration, because, you know, protos. < 1575070970 291693 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and befunge-98 is a fairly efficient language to write a bf interpreter in (but befunge-93 would have issues producing an unbounded tape) < 1575070990 517780 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know of at least two bots that interpret the same language as the bot is written in: NotJack's ijx was a bot written in J that interprets J, and the buubot3 instance called perlbot is written in perl and interprets perl (plus a bit more) < 1575071021 142875 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, in retrospect I probably should've just bumped up the cycle limit of the fungot ^bf interpreter. It's just I don't tend to edit fungot much. < 1575071021 271660 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i normally use define-macro...) value) ( ' red t) ( h h)) < 1575071025 191653 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: the problem with that is mostly sandboxing, isn't it? < 1575071034 765765 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: with which one? < 1575071042 998005 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :self-hosting languagebots < 1575071049 366806 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1575071080 919092 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an entirely unsandboxed Funge-98 interpretation command in fungot. I've tried to use it for hot-patching once or twice. < 1575071080 975378 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: no it is < 1575071092 472101 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :buubot3 uses just a couple of old unix tricks, like running under a different user and setrlimit to not allow to open any file and such things to make a sandbox that works decently but is very limiting < 1575071095 277767 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just much easier to hot-break than hot-fix things. < 1575071145 947763 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm not sure it's a /bot/ interpreter, though; presumably the Funge-98 output commands output to the hosting server's stdout rather than to the IRC channel < 1575071165 859873 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what ijx used, but it probably involved the J interpreter's secure mode, which disables all the builtins that do IO or system access or foreign calls, except for 11!: which calls a custom callback of the program in which the interpreter is embedded to < 1575071206 500372 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a perfect sandbox because the J interpreter had a few bugs at that time that let you do memory corruption, but it was good enough < 1575071208 664792 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, although of course you can write to the IRC socket as well. But it's true that it's not what you would expect if it was intended as an interpreter. < 1575071280 297752 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, buubot3 originally interpreted like seven different languages, and the part that interprets perl wasn't special at all, it was implemented almost the same as invoking the other interpreters < 1575071285 765236 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interpreter is always a separate process < 1575071297 682121 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that perlbot threw out all the other interpreters for some reason < 1575071300 391565 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it only runs perl < 1575071319 252070 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ix.io/239r is the total list of times I've used it on channel. < 1575071321 828242 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, a wasmbot would probably be pretty good at self-hosting < 1575071326 580518 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea if those actually did the right thing. < 1575071338 441358 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the original buubot3 could actually interprete J, and the command to interpret J was "jeval", which is why I renamed my jevalbot instance from jeval to evalj < 1575071345 168089 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"jeval:" used to trigger two bots < 1575071346 965776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea: a self-modifying esolang with version control < 1575071355 448212 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: see Wikiplia < 1575071366 405207 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't truly self-modifying < 1575071384 378598 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it has a version control, and there's a self-modifying compiler implemented over it < 1575071393 599677 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant self-modifying in the sense of programs modifying themselves, not in the Snowflake sense < 1575071396 158576 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a compiler that compiles a slightly higher level to Wikiplia < 1575071408 923852 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1575071501 179167 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently 0ad00f-gU0": ciretose# GSMVIRP"AAN51p08P0851g21gW$ prints out the current reply counter (thing it uses to stop replying consecutively), and 0ad10f-G0": ciretose# GSMVIRP"AAN51p08P0851g21gW$ the nickname of whoever spoke to it last. < 1575071506 932386 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, some of the uncomputable time-travel esolangs are in effect like this, so maybe you could start with one of those as a base and add a causality restriction to bring them down to TCness < 1575071523 802404 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's more interesting if the ability to undo, rewind, etc. is somehow needed for TCness < 1575071574 311419 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1575071587 613213 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is https://esolangs.org/wiki/Legit whose source format is a git repository < 1575071679 731348 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but the content of the repository is irrelevant, the program is stored in the metadata (which isn't itself versioned) < 1575071722 810978 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1575071745 477830 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: prolog then, since you can undo unifications? < 1575071756 404163 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it's still TC without failing < 1575071785 277729 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :To call back to an earlier fork in the conversation, the attributes proposal (N2335) had been merged into the June 2019 working draft of C2x (N2385), together with a few standard attributes: deprecated (N2334), maybe_unused (N2770) and nodiscard (N2267). < 1575071796 921584 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"maybe_unused" ah < 1575071799 718643 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-115.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1575071844 23954 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there's any level of -std=c2x support on the GCC version on HackEso though. < 1575071858 719253 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`gcc --version < 1575071859 423396 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc (Debian 8.3.0-6) 8.3.0 \ Copyright (C) 2018 Free Software Foundation, Inc. \ This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There is NO \ warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. < 1575071865 782873 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I think it's 9 only.