00:23:11 <zzo38> Now I added fifteen new opcodes into ZZ Zero.
00:23:54 <zzo38> And also a new board flag, a new mode of an existing opcode, the ability to append rather than overwrite when printing to a file, and other stuff.
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00:53:47 <oerjan> <kingoffrance> we only do alchemy metaphorical riches <-- better than homeopathy ones hth
01:21:41 <int-e> Oh homeopathic riches?
01:25:02 <int-e> This makes me want to gauge the market for potentiated gold.
01:26:29 <int-e> fungot: how do you pronounce "gauge"?
01:26:29 <fungot> int-e: society of invasive cardiovascular professionals. we're on surgery here, ight?
01:26:59 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp ukparl youtube
01:27:48 <oerjan> fungot: that's a bit long for a pronunciation
01:27:48 <fungot> oerjan: consider the set of symbols though... yeah... you're the guy who came in here not yesterday he spammed up the channel
01:28:37 <oerjan> i have _never_ spammed the channel and my `sleds don't count
01:29:13 <int-e> countless sleds, how seasonally appropriate
01:29:58 <HackEso> The password of the month is naughty.
01:30:14 <int-e> Ah, right. (I honestly forgot what I picked.)
01:30:27 <int-e> I guess the password of the month is not very memorable.
01:30:45 <int-e> Which is something you want in a password, but for different reasons.
01:33:11 <int-e> If I were to pick one now I might go with "is going out with a bang."
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01:46:50 <int-e> fungot: will there be a next year?
01:46:50 <fungot> int-e: have i confused them? escape the space?
01:54:25 <oerjan> fungot: it's more of a time issue, i think.
01:54:25 <fungot> oerjan: everybody makes one, seveninchbread tells us what the interpreters can or can't do unless 1 is defined as () is a syntactic transformer?
01:55:09 <oerjan> seveninchbread hasn't been seen in a while, unless e morphed into a nick i didn't manage to track.
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01:57:24 <oerjan> 27 weeks says nickserv
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02:02:57 <fizzie> fungot: Are you feeling all right? You're being unusually coherent.
02:02:57 <fungot> fizzie: it implements a few features such as highlighting where exceptions were thrown, incredibly powerful syntax colouring system, and an output port
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02:06:54 <oerjan> uh oh i hope lota has a backup
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02:07:31 <oerjan> because it seems about time for the pa'anuri to start shooting back
02:10:11 <int-e> How about 4, to keep with the Apocalypse theme.
02:10:57 <int-e> oerjan: Hmmm, have we seen the design in the top-right?
02:11:03 <int-e> Where right is left.
02:11:17 <int-e> So the thing with spheres and rings.
02:12:20 <oerjan> i only remember the zeus thing that got blown up
02:12:28 <int-e> Hmm, scale. The Pa'anuri don't mess around... they might just open a gate and push a star through. Wouldn't that be fun?
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02:13:55 <int-e> But it looks like the gate is smaller than their gas giant planet sized (IIRC) healing ships.
02:56:59 <oerjan> depends on perspective
03:11:45 <int-e> True, I'm making big assumptions, but I can't be sure that they're big enough.
03:24:21 <oerjan> bah i spent an hour to find that zeus thing and it doesn't look the same at all https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2018-09-09
03:25:08 <oerjan> (partly because i misjudged which chapter it was in)
03:25:48 <oerjan> or well, _some_ similarities, but not the whole structure
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04:49:19 <esowiki> [[Functional()]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67946&oldid=65703 * Hakerh400 * (+5327) Add quine program
04:54:23 <esowiki> [[Functional()]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67947&oldid=67946 * Hakerh400 * (-55)
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05:58:03 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67948&oldid=67941 * Salpynx * (+12) /* M */ add MUSYS
06:00:53 <esowiki> [[Grime MC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67949&oldid=58571 * Salpynx * (+23) category
06:09:38 <esowiki> [[Deklare]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67950&oldid=66465 * A * (-151)
06:13:59 <esowiki> [[Deklare]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67951&oldid=67950 * A * (+471) /* Challenge: loop over a few values */
06:17:05 <esowiki> [[Deklare]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67952&oldid=67951 * A * (+434) /* Challenge: loop over a few values */
06:18:18 <esowiki> [[Deklare]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67953&oldid=67952 * A * (+194) /* Quick reference */
06:48:51 <esowiki> [[Stack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67954&oldid=67114 * A * (+56)
06:50:25 <esowiki> [[Volatile]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67955&oldid=66426 * A * (-256) /* Volatile instruction minimalization */
06:53:17 <esowiki> [[Stack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67956&oldid=67954 * A * (+103) /* Usage in esolangs */
06:58:14 <esowiki> [[Stack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67957&oldid=67956 * A * (+36) Possible different mnemonics
07:13:12 <esowiki> [[Postfix notation]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67958&oldid=67558 * A * (+480) /* Concrete Implementations */
07:16:28 <esowiki> [[Postfix notation]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67959&oldid=67958 * A * (+25) /* Concrete Implementations */
07:24:16 <esowiki> [[Postfix notation]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67960&oldid=67959 * A * (-9) /* Concrete Implementations */ Clean the program up
07:24:35 <esowiki> [[Postfix notation]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67961&oldid=67960 * A * (+40) /* Concrete Implementations */
07:29:24 <esowiki> [[Postfix notation]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67962&oldid=67961 * A * (+58) /* Concrete Implementations */ Make it easier for beginners to understand
07:31:41 <esowiki> [[Postfix notation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67963&oldid=67962 * A * (-92) /* Concrete Implementations */ Remove some dead code
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07:44:37 <esowiki> [[Arity]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67964&oldid=67595 * A * (+140) /* In esolangs */ Add APL
08:07:09 <esowiki> [[Postfix notation]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67965&oldid=67963 * A * (+405) /* Implementation */
08:07:47 <esowiki> [[Postfix notation]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67966&oldid=67965 * A * (+56) /* Concrete Implementations */
08:12:54 <esowiki> [[User:Hex96]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67967&oldid=67898 * Hex96 * (-11)
08:23:31 <zzo38> I know there is dual port RAM, but is there a variant that has random access write-only on one side and sequential read-only on other side (or vice-versa), and is there a variant that has random-access write-only on one side, and the other side is sequential read-only that clears the memory being read (so not strictly read-only)?
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11:00:46 <esowiki> [[Volatile]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67968&oldid=67955 * JonoCode9374 * (+226)
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12:31:51 <esowiki> [[Muppp]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=67969 * Hex96 * (+48) Created page with "Muppp is an esolang made by [[User:Hex96|Hex96]]"
12:34:55 <esowiki> [[Muppp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67970&oldid=67969 * Hex96 * (+191)
12:40:05 <esowiki> [[Muppp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67971&oldid=67970 * Hex96 * (+260) /* Tokens */
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12:50:43 <HackEso> EARTH HAS 4 CORNER SIMULTANEOUS 4-DAY TIME CUBE IN ONLY 24 HOUR ROTATION. 4 CORNER DAYS, CUBES 4 QUAD EARTH. Bible A Lie & Word Is Lies. Navel Connects 4 Corner 4s. God Is Born Of A Mother - She Left Belly B. Signature. Your dirty lying teachers use only the midnight to midnight 1 day (ignoring 3 other days) Time to not foul (already wrong) bible time. Lie that corrupts earth you educated stupid fools.
12:50:45 <HackEso> A Lie algebra is what you get if you take the region infinitesimally close to the identity of a Lie group and blow it up to normal size.
12:51:02 <b_jonas> Do the four simultaneous rotations of Earth for a lie algebra of four dimensions?
12:55:19 <HackEso> Lie groups are groups that try being too smooth for their own good.
12:55:32 <HackEso> rotations of earth? ¯\(°_o)/¯
13:06:32 <esowiki> [[User:Hex96]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67972&oldid=67967 * Hex96 * (+12)
13:08:21 <esowiki> [[Muppp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67973&oldid=67971 * Hex96 * (+108) /* Tokens */
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13:13:22 <kingoffrance> the funny thing about time cube guy: http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Form=Dict2&Database=gcide&Query=Civil+day The Babylonians and
13:13:22 <kingoffrance> Hindoos began their day at sunrise, the Athenians and Jews
13:13:22 <kingoffrance> at sunset, the ancient Egyptians and Romans at midnight. ; methinks his problem wasnt "science" it was bumping into "religions" who arent going to drop everything and switch
13:13:44 <kingoffrance> looks like he was trying to "integrate" all the (or at least the seemingly 4 major) systems :/
13:14:11 <kingoffrance> its not surprising the "bible" did away with the other systems :/
13:15:54 <esowiki> [[Muppp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67974&oldid=67973 * Hex96 * (+543) /* Tokens */
13:17:00 <esowiki> [[Muppp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67975&oldid=67974 * Hex96 * (+75) /* Tokens */
13:17:59 <kingoffrance> i only know that cuz i was researching lunar months once, and when you mentioned the time cube thing, it sounded familliar :/
13:18:55 <Lykaina> called my parents to wish them a good saturday morning
13:21:29 <Lykaina> hint: it's sunday morning where i am
13:24:16 <Lykaina> kingoffrance: astronemers begin their day at noon
13:25:02 <arseniiv> kingoffrance: oh, Babylonians and Hindu seem the most reasonable of all. Why start the day when you’re supposed to be sleeping, or going to sleep soon, when the actual blank slate is the morning
13:25:25 <arseniiv> oh so blank, it often needs coffee or tea to even become writable
13:27:20 <Lykaina> healthier and cheaper than coffee or tea
13:28:05 <Lykaina> (if you are already addicted to caffeine)
13:31:27 <Lykaina> had a dream i was a muggle in hogwarts
13:31:28 <b_jonas> kingoffrance: also there are current maps that face north, old maps that face east, Australian maps that face south, and Middle-Earth maps that face west
13:32:34 <kingoffrance> well i thought if i ever get far enough for my os i would allow such things, if someone bothers to set up all the tables, why not ?
13:32:35 <b_jonas> arseniiv: I think starting the day during the night is the most reasonable, because then usually each period when you're awake is completely within one day
13:32:49 <b_jonas> starting in the morning wouldn't work well because not everyone wakes at the same time in the morning
13:32:51 <kingoffrance> not so much for esoteric value, just i dont like to hardcode things
13:33:36 <kingoffrance> i think i read once nasa had to do mars time, but they wrote a custom java app, didnt feel trying to make any OS do it was feasible :/
13:33:52 <kingoffrance> since reading that i always thought the OS was the proper place for such things
13:34:35 <b_jonas> Lykaina: re dream where you were a muggle in Mogwarts => were you reading too much fanfiction?
13:34:47 <kingoffrance> of course you likely have lots of hardware stuff that youd have to translate back and forth
13:35:34 <b_jonas> Lykaina: Pottermore nonsense about that one historical Muggle that got into Hogwarts as far as the Sorting then?
13:35:49 <Lykaina> and i woke before i could have sex with hermione
13:37:52 <Lykaina> who's the lesbian in hogwarts again?
13:38:44 <b_jonas> everyone if you look through enough fanfics probably
13:40:11 <b_jonas> including boys who change gender using magic such as the Polymorph potion
13:43:21 <Lykaina> didn't harry marry his best friend's sister?
13:44:18 <kingoffrance> Lykaina, Lykaina Lykaina what kind of dream is that? cant you just convert her?
13:44:55 <Lykaina> i was a muggle! i couldn't make hermione lesbian
13:47:47 <esowiki> [[Volatile]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67976&oldid=67968 * A * (+71) /* More Interpreters */
13:51:11 <esowiki> [[Deklare]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67977&oldid=67953 * A * (+46) /* More operators */ I give up on the confusing language
13:51:25 <esowiki> [[Deklare]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67978&oldid=67977 * A * (-250) /* Lists */
13:55:55 <esowiki> [[Deklare]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67979&oldid=67978 * A * (+382) /* Add two numbers */
13:56:23 <esowiki> [[Deklare]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67980&oldid=67979 * A * (-117) /* More operators */
13:56:24 <arseniiv> b_jonas: mmayybe; at least starting the day at six or four feels better than at twelve
13:57:48 <b_jonas> doesn't feel better to me. sunrise varies a lot, solar midnight varies only by half an hour, so starting at midnight is less arbitrary and follows the sun more closely
13:58:08 <b_jonas> (unless you live close to the equator, in which case sunrise time doesn't vary a lot, obviously)
13:58:10 <esowiki> [[Deklare]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67981&oldid=67980 * A * (+148) /* Compare two letters */
13:58:41 <arseniiv> b_jonas: you shatter my dreams :P
13:59:02 <arseniiv> not that they are actual things I want
14:00:11 <esowiki> [[Muppp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67982&oldid=67975 * Hex96 * (+59) /* Tokens */
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14:01:18 <esowiki> [[Muppp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67983&oldid=67982 * Hex96 * (+50)
14:02:22 <esowiki> [[Muppp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67984&oldid=67983 * Hex96 * (+28) /* 1 character cat */
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14:05:51 <esowiki> [[Talk:Muppp]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=67985 * Hex96 * (+38) Created page with "More programs here: ==More programs=="
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14:35:45 <b_jonas> fungot, do you watch airplanes?
14:35:45 <fungot> b_jonas: i'm thinking stdio, fnord and fnord
14:36:50 <Lykaina> i've seen Airplane!, does that count?
14:37:29 <Lykaina> oh, you were asking someone else
14:40:04 <arseniiv> Lykaina: ah I think it’s totally okay anyway
14:40:32 <arseniiv> . o O ( stdio, fnord and fnord => are stderr and stdout in the channel’s banlist? )
14:42:54 <b_jonas> yes, seeing Airplane counts
14:45:36 <b_jonas> fungot, is there a skeleton inside you?
14:45:36 <fungot> b_jonas: that's a fnord fnord
14:45:42 <fizzie> In fact, the following two words were originally "stdmath" and "stdctrl".
14:46:04 <fizzie> Which are sufficiently rare to not have occurred more than whatever times the cutoff was.
15:23:30 <HackEso> fnord? No such file or directory
15:24:44 <arseniiv> fizzie: oh, so it’s even a thing :o I thought fungot said that accidentally
15:24:45 <fungot> arseniiv: the problem is this: is a s/// joke of a fnord array /dev/ md0 consists of two hard drive partitions: /dev/ hda3 and /dev/ zero...
15:30:23 <b_jonas> ``` grep -c '<fungot>.*\<fnord\>' /hackenv/quotes # arseniiv: fungot says fnord a lot
15:30:23 <fungot> b_jonas: no processes. for opening files i would've used an hp in the beginning of the other
15:33:11 <arseniiv> fungot: what a fun day we got here, don’t you agree?
15:33:11 <fungot> arseniiv: the only scheme i know, i'm not sure what
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15:55:25 <b_jonas> fungot, which species of penguin is the cutest?
15:55:26 <fungot> b_jonas: you can use a simple translator from some other box look like it's published on paper too. i can't fix that right now. :)
15:56:41 <b_jonas> fungot: it's not urgent, you can fix it after New Year
15:56:41 <fungot> b_jonas: next will be a zone between the red and the blue whale. feels like goedel numbering somehow.
16:03:14 <rain1> can you recommend any recent science fiction?
16:04:22 <b_jonas> rain1: what media would you like? anime, live action movie, comic strip, novel?
16:05:24 <b_jonas> try Terry Pratchett, it's still recent enough
16:05:49 <b_jonas> or Andrzej Sapkowski's series, whatever it's called
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17:00:52 <b_jonas> fungot, why do lawyers and doctors invent crazy words for their jargon, rather than using good terminology like us in mathematics or computer science?
17:00:53 <fungot> b_jonas: that's not very helpful. rarely used, scope declaration... " global" clause first.)
17:04:28 <fungot> kritixilithos: nothing against sisc specifically,
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17:35:22 <b_jonas> is the IOCCC website down?
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18:23:21 <b_jonas> fungot, at what age do human babies start toothing?
18:23:22 <fungot> b_jonas: i guess so. do you want the oo docs for the rc. :p
18:28:09 <imode> how small can a single process' state be in any given process calculus.
18:28:34 <imode> I'm wondering if you can get away with storing two values, `left` and `right`.
18:40:26 <imode> the sparking idea is that I have a concurrent subset of my language, Mode, that uses only a few operations: spawn a process giving you back that process' ID, send a value to a process, and receive a value (from anywhere).
18:45:52 <esowiki> [[Klein]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67986&oldid=53624 * Salpynx * (+108) Add implementation link
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19:52:56 <esowiki> [[Intcode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67987&oldid=67930 * Fizzie * (+4) It keeps happening.
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20:42:33 <zzo38> I wrote a program to parse the .OBJ files for DOS program compiling (although the program that parses it does not itself run in DOS). I wrote it mainly because I wanted to see how much space a module takes up in the code segment. So, now I can see a line such as: 1 = PARA PUBLIC <0A129> "GAME_CODE" C="BC_CODE" It will tell me that the code segment is 0xA129 bytes long.
20:43:59 <zzo38> And then also that it uses 0x17A bytes of a data segment.
20:46:52 <b_jonas> zzo38: does gnu binutils do that?
20:49:21 <zzo38> As far as I can tell it doesn't support the DOS format.
20:50:08 <kmc> some NASM tool might?
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20:50:45 <zzo38> Maybe it does, although I do not have NASM
20:53:40 <zzo38> Have someone tried to make something with ZZ Zero? Then you can make your actual questions/complaints about it, including suggestions.
20:54:30 <zzo38> (Including if there is something unclear in the documentation)
20:57:12 <zzo38> ZZT does not have a print to file option, but ZZ Zero does include such an option.
20:57:55 <zzo38> Do you know how to improve the keyboard handling? Currently sometimes if you try to change direction quickly it doesn't work very well.
21:00:34 <b_jonas> buy a better keyboard? that's what helped me at work after I tried three different keyboards they could offer me
21:01:38 <b_jonas> the main problem was the strange habit I have that I press left control with the edge of my palm rather than with a finger, and some of these modern keyboards don't allow that
21:03:11 <zzo38> I mean in the software, in ZZ Zero, it is a DOS program written in BASIC
21:03:27 <zzo38> You can examine the code to see how it is doing currently
21:12:09 <zzo38> How many ZZT-likes are there now?
21:16:47 <zzo38> I wrote the file FUTURE.DOC now included with ZZ Zero mentions some possible ideas to implement in future, such as: joystick, ESC/P, FM music, ability to enable/disable rotations at runtime, eight dot mode, high score menu, etc
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21:56:10 <HackEso> fnord? No such file or directory
21:57:07 <oerjan> `t mkx bin/fnord//echo '? No such file or directory'
21:57:13 <HackEso> ? No such file or directory
21:58:03 <esowiki> [[Daoyu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67988&oldid=51821 * Kaynato * (-777)
21:58:42 <esowiki> [[Daoyu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67989&oldid=67988 * Kaynato * (-1) Updated description of link to implementation
21:58:56 <Kaynato> Whoops, didn't check "minor edit"
21:59:32 <oerjan> we'll have to ban you now.
22:00:40 <Kaynato> In other news, now that DOALC doesn't actually double the allocated memory for a Daoyu program, I feel it's much more possible to try my hand at demonstrably determining Daoyu's computational class
22:04:57 <int-e> I'm starting to regret sticking to a purely functional Intcode interpreter, it took me way too long to unravel the knot from output to input this time.
22:05:31 <int-e> A monadic interface would probably help ;)
22:08:00 <Kaynato> A monadic interface for Daoyu?
22:08:46 <int-e> Yes, for Intcode, or rather the interpreter I have.
22:11:23 <oerjan> <b_jonas> fungot, which species of penguin is the cutest? <-- i read that question and a crested one immediately popped up in my mind, but then i learned they're a whole genus
22:11:23 <fungot> oerjan: where are you now? someplace warm? has no behaviour defined on numbers; it may behave however it pleases, as long as i'm alive."
22:11:56 <oerjan> fungot: in my apartment, which is warm yes
22:11:56 <fungot> oerjan: programs aren't even copyrightable" to " not even snot".
22:12:17 <oerjan> fungot: i think the courts may disagree?
22:12:18 <fungot> oerjan: last time i did it in awk, befunge, whitespace, is replaced with one backslash and the remaining instructions may deal with crouching and standing up
22:13:14 <fizzie> int-e: I managed to land on something incredibly slow (a runtime of ~one minute) this time around. The first part asked for the least amount of moves, so I wrote a BFS with a (for simplicity) return-to-origin after each visit, which was kind of pessimal given what the map turned out to look like.
22:15:29 <fizzie> Switching to DFS for exploring the map and BFS for computing both the distances yielded about a 100x speedup.
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22:16:06 <int-e> I explored the map first, and realized that DFS will compute the right distance...
22:16:14 <int-e> ...so I took the lazy approach.
22:17:05 <int-e> But my enemy this time was <<loop>>
22:17:51 <arseniiv> may deal with crouching and standing up ==> I watch too many minecraft videos these times I immediately associate that phrase with it
22:18:25 <fizzie> I just added a "run to next output instruction" method on the side of the "run to halt" one.
22:18:42 <int-e> (the loops happen because I have a function that maps the output of the program to its input... can't consume the output before the corresponding input is produced)
22:18:59 <int-e> and this time, the interleaving is somewhat intricate.
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22:20:33 <int-e> So in the end, I took almost 80 minutes for part 1 and 8 more for part 2.
22:20:44 <int-e> And it annoys me a lot.
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23:09:59 <zzo38> I found a article about "ZZT Cliches", and I am not so sure of all of them. Anyways, XYZABCDE.ZZT has some things differences. It says "The most annoying songs are often repeated over and over again during gameplay, forcing you to turn off the music" but in XYZABCDE.ZZT it only plays the music once.
23:10:45 <zzo38> It also says "Gems usually represent currency in ZZT games, even if they're called dollars." but I think in many games they do not call them dollars.
23:10:55 <b_jonas> Is there also an option to mute music that you can toggle during runtime?
23:21:42 <zzo38> Yes. You can push B to toggle sounds/musics
23:32:59 <Kaynato> If it's fine to ask, are there any immediate tree-based computational models for which proving TC is sensible?
23:40:19 <Kaynato> Assuming that I can't contract edges either, hmmm
23:40:30 <Kaynato> Maybe I should still view daoyu as a bitstring-based language
23:45:28 <Kaynato> I'm quickly remembering just how obtuse and frustrating daoyu was