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00:38:53 <b_jonas> zzo38: no, none recently. I think less about M:tG than I used to, and don't much follow the newly published cards, and don't much like the changes they made
00:39:41 <zzo38> Which changes do you mean specifically?
00:41:08 <b_jonas> question. can you tell me about the state of Linux driver/software support of video cards these days? specifically, if I want to buy a video card into a new computer that I'll use as home desktop with Debian and that has an Intel cpu, but I don't need a particularly expensive or new video card (I care more about the motherboard and memory and cpu), then how do the three brands of video card compare?
00:42:10 <zzo38> I don't know; I purchased the computer I use now with Linux already installed.
00:42:22 <b_jonas> zzo38: too many new cards printed each year, and more importantly, too many cards printed or reprinted for supplementary products, with a confusing complexity of supplementary products over the standard-legal setse
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00:44:22 <zzo38> I don't really care much about whether or not they do that, although if it is confusing which are legal in different formats then it should be corrected to specify what it is clearly
00:44:30 <b_jonas> and many cards are increasingly graphically ugly, especially variant and promo reprints, but also just ordinary cards with special frames. the too many different special frames and variants make it confusingly noisy to look at cards.
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00:45:56 <b_jonas> the flagship of terrible graphic design is of course the Amonkhet Invocations, and the cheaper cards tend to have less of the crazy variants, but still
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00:46:15 <zzo38> Yes, I don't like the special frames either; I like the old style cards design (from Sixth Edition and older)
00:46:18 <b_jonas> I already didn't like the Zendikar full art lands, but there are just more and more of these
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00:48:37 <b_jonas> I do prefer the Kamigawa frame than the Urza frame to tell the truth, and I think even the normal version of the M2015 frame is better than the Urza frames,
00:49:11 <b_jonas> (I prefer the Kamigawa frame over the M2015 frame mostly because the M2015 title font is ugly)
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00:49:47 <b_jonas> but with all the variants they just can't keep a nice uniform clean style
00:50:19 <zzo38> Yes, I do think there are too many special variants
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00:51:32 <b_jonas> though I admit that the Urza frame artifact textbox with its colorful gems in the background does have a charm
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03:09:11 <esowiki> [[Bubbles]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68859&oldid=67741 * IFcoltransG * (+2940) TC proof and mnemonics
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03:19:21 <esowiki> [[UnoScript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68860&oldid=68812 * IFcoltransG * (+40) Added categories
03:27:13 <zzo38> Is there a way to make pclose() to terminate the child process instead of waiting?
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03:32:40 <imode> seems like using popen() isn't ideal when you want to kill it.
03:33:14 <esowiki> [[Keta]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68861&oldid=68842 * IFcoltransG * (+0) /* Terminology */ Spelling
03:33:30 <imode> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/548063/kill-a-process-started-with-popen
03:38:02 <esowiki> [[Keta]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68862&oldid=68861 * IFcoltransG * (+22) Put examples within one heading
03:40:43 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Community portal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68863&oldid=67394 * IFcoltransG * (+4) /* #Esoteric */ added conjunction
04:22:23 <esowiki> [[Talk:Finite-state mach... wait, WHAT!?]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68864 * IFcoltransG * (+739) Created page with "===TC possibility=== Presumably, you could create a VM based on the brainfuck interpreter that was written in brainfuck, such that every time any command is executed, the VM f..."
04:25:56 <esowiki> [[Psychairefatback]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68865&oldid=68831 * IFcoltransG * (+13) Redirected to the archive of Psychairefatback
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04:49:00 <esowiki> [[Talk:Lazy evaluation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68866&oldid=52934 * IFcoltransG * (+275)
05:05:35 <esowiki> [[Lazy evaluation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68867&oldid=65975 * IFcoltransG * (+827) Rewrote article to make sense (but still following philosophy)
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05:07:46 <esowiki> [[Talk:Lazy evaluation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68868&oldid=68866 * IFcoltransG * (+206) /* Request */
05:08:06 <esowiki> [[Talk:Lazy evaluation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68869&oldid=68868 * IFcoltransG * (+28) /* Request */
05:08:43 <esowiki> [[Lazy evaluation]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68870&oldid=68867 * IFcoltransG * (+1) Formatting
05:24:55 <esowiki> [[Ora]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68871&oldid=20033 * IFcoltransG * (+39) Added a cat
05:25:26 <esowiki> [[2D-Reverse]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68872&oldid=36278 * IFcoltransG * (+39) Added a category
05:27:28 <esowiki> [[Generic 2D Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68873&oldid=46372 * IFcoltransG * (+79) Added cats
05:30:42 <esowiki> [[Generic 2D Befunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68874&oldid=59911 * IFcoltransG * (+80) Added categories
05:32:32 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68875&oldid=68854 * IFcoltransG * (+52) /* G */ Added two languages authors forgot to add
05:39:42 <esowiki> [[Niblet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68876&oldid=44703 * IFcoltransG * (+129) Added some cats and dead link template
05:42:56 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68877&oldid=68875 * IFcoltransG * (+13) /* S */ Shepherded the lost Stable language onto the page
05:43:49 <esowiki> [[Stable]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68878&oldid=66415 * IFcoltransG * (+66) Categories
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07:50:37 <esowiki> [[Comp]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68879&oldid=68702 * IFcoltransG * (+0) Capitalisation
07:51:32 <esowiki> [[Comp]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68880&oldid=68879 * IFcoltransG * (+0) Capitalisation but actually this time.
07:52:43 <esowiki> [[Talk:Comp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68881&oldid=68646 * IFcoltransG * (+53) /* The Ampersand */
07:52:52 <esowiki> [[Talk:Comp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68882&oldid=68881 * IFcoltransG * (+95)
08:38:33 <zzo38> Can HTML form data be saved to a file, after it has been filled up, without submitting the form?
08:54:13 <esowiki> [[Talk:Comp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68883&oldid=68882 * JonoCode9374 * (+225) /* The Ampersand */
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09:10:21 <esowiki> [[TOGA computer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68884&oldid=68722 * IFcoltransG * (+57) Full proofread once-over
09:21:57 <esowiki> [[Schmuu]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68885&oldid=55480 * IFcoltransG * (+69) Categories
09:33:53 <esowiki> [[Pendulum Instruction Set Architecture]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68886&oldid=41354 * IFcoltransG * (-37) Categories and format of code
09:36:46 <esowiki> [[Eitherf*ck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68887&oldid=50854 * IFcoltransG * (+41) Categories
09:39:22 <esowiki> [[Mandelbrot set]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68888&oldid=62496 * IFcoltransG * (+28) Program forms category
09:42:50 <esowiki> [[Countercall]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68889&oldid=53612 * IFcoltransG * (+20) /* Computational class */ fixed link
09:50:21 <esowiki> [[Talk:Comp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68890&oldid=68883 * IFcoltransG * (+159)
09:50:31 <esowiki> [[Talk:Comp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68891&oldid=68890 * IFcoltransG * (+95)
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13:16:41 <wib_jonas> zzo38: re pclose terminate the process: I don't think so. if you want such fine control, I think you have to reimplement popen.
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14:54:17 <int-e> fungot: what is the job of a "chief purpose officer"?
14:54:17 <fungot> int-e: oh stack yes... i know
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15:13:37 <Taneb> fungot: do you actually parse the messages that invoke you to seed your response or do you just say whatever?
15:13:37 <fungot> Taneb: ok. do you use guile, it's built-in) or openssl's fnord' library) has a rather vertical fnord graph.
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16:07:56 <fizzie> Spoilers: it's the latter.
16:08:35 <fizzie> The reason being, the file format makes it harder to translate from text to tokens than the other way around.
16:08:55 <fizzie> I have a Perl script I can use to generate fungot sentences with a fixed initial context.
16:08:55 <fungot> fizzie: that's more like it))) where bar is a non-tail call?
16:11:00 <fizzie> http://ix.io/27yb -- no idea which style that's from, just used whatever leftover was there.
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17:33:05 <HackEso> modes? No such file or directory
17:33:38 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp ukparl youtube
17:34:30 <fungot> kritixilithos: but append!ing to ()
17:41:58 <fizzie> The reason why the 'irc' style has stuff like this is because logs from #scheme were part of the training set.
17:42:09 <fungot> Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams)
17:54:31 <kritixilithos> how are words tokenised? are the parens a part of the word or does fungot add them separately?
17:54:31 <fungot> kritixilithos: i'm writing gambit 5. helsinki/ espoo border, otaniemi. wonder if it's for scheme code did i really just guess from context
18:11:56 <fizzie> Punctuation are separate tokens, and there's a bug (or rather, a missing feature) that even punctuations that shouldn't have a following space (open parenthesis, slash, open quote) add it.
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18:42:32 <b_jonas> oh, phpbb has a link to show the print view of a page in a thread. that's what I should use next time when I mass download.
18:42:51 <b_jonas> it still uses the same pagination, I think it only differs in the headers and footers
18:45:36 <b_jonas> though it doesn't link the usernames of posters to the user, that's a slight drawback
18:46:10 <b_jonas> meh, I'll figure it out the next time I want to download a forum
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19:08:28 <kmc> good old phpbb
19:08:55 <b_jonas> kmc: it's quite popular and actively developped
19:09:10 <b_jonas> it's like everywhere, you just don't always recognize it because there are so many plugins customizing it
19:09:15 <kmc> yeah I know
19:09:17 <b_jonas> and every version gives different html
19:09:29 <kmc> I'm on at least one popular site that is veny much an old school forum
19:09:29 <b_jonas> so you can't even recognize it if you look inside the html like the classes and ids
19:09:33 <kmc> not sure if it's phpbb, but quite likely
19:09:37 <b_jonas> you need different scripts for every different vesrions
19:09:47 <kmc> I prefer old school forums to "social media" in many ways
19:10:05 <kmc> although I like reddit even more
19:10:26 <esowiki> [[A-DU]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68892&oldid=58436 * Salpynx * (+50) Categories, because at the time both adding a Language cat and adding it to the languages page seemed redundant (re. WHY?)
19:10:33 <kmc> reddit is often lumped in with social media but it's really closer to an old school forum
19:11:12 <kmc> the interface is cleaner than most phpbb sites i've used
19:13:54 <arseniiv> reddit certainly has some thought put into it
19:14:22 <arseniiv> though I often complain about 1-year topic lockout period
19:15:27 <arseniiv> one complain I have about several old-school forums I visited or visit is that they dry out and toxify in some sense
19:19:04 <arseniiv> like there is a whole level of positive feedback loops going on: people visiting habitually may want more activity so they write posts that are often far from constructive, and lack of feedback that these posts are bad fixes the habit of posting these unnecessary things
19:19:22 <arseniiv> and that’s just one of many sides of the story
19:19:23 <b_jonas> kmc: sorry, I don't buy it. normal forums show all threads, and show all posts in a thread that anyone ever posted, in chronological order, except those that moderators have deleted, those are gone. facebook and twitter and reddit choose popular posts that they think you'll like, they're selective.
19:21:28 <zzo38> I think NNTP is better.
19:22:19 <kmc> b_jonas: you can choose the sort on reddit
19:22:29 <kmc> if you go to a specific reddit, I mean
19:22:35 <kmc> which would be equivalent of choosing a forum site
19:22:44 <kmc> the options are hot / new / top / rising
19:22:52 <kmc> you can also choose the sort on comments
19:22:55 <kmc> (usually?)
19:23:24 <b_jonas> kmc: ok, I believe you, I don't use reddit so I'm not familiar with how all this stuff works
19:23:52 <kmc> you can also do "top of today" vs "top of this year" vs "top of all time"
19:23:54 <kmc> https://www.reddit.com/r/ambien/top/?t=all
19:24:57 <kmc> i like reddit. sure, a lot of reddits (especially popular or default-view ones) are shit, but there are a lot of good ones too
19:25:06 <kmc> most of my interests have at least one good reddit associated
19:26:47 <zzo38> I think that the topics should never be locked out
19:27:35 <kmc> yeah it is a bit annoying
19:27:51 <kmc> when i come across a 4 year old thread and want to say something clever
19:27:53 <zzo38> Although I do not use Reddit myself, I do sometimes read stuff on there when linked from somewhere, and I have a redirect set up in my browser so that it redirects to the "old.reddit.com" domain name
19:28:01 <kmc> and i miss out on the opportunity to show off my cleverness
19:31:34 <myname> reddit is an awesome place
19:31:41 <zzo38> Perhaps, you should use NNTP is better.
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19:32:48 <zzo38> There is some program uses web forum and also is available as mailing list and NNTP, such as "DFeed", so it is possible to have all of them
19:33:05 <zzo38> (And it is compatible with IRC, too.)
19:34:19 <b_jonas> zzo38: yes, there's also Google groups which gives a web interface to some newsgroups
19:34:28 <b_jonas> or it used to, I'm not sure if it does still
19:35:04 <b_jonas> at https://groups.google.com/
19:35:11 <b_jonas> it handles mailing lists too
19:35:28 <b_jonas> and there are newsgroups mirrored with a mailing list, possibly without a web interface
19:35:36 <b_jonas> there's all sorts of bridges
19:37:15 <zzo38> Yes, although what is problem I think is that many mailing lists and web forums don't have a NNTP.
19:37:42 <zzo38> (There is also the problem of namespace collision, which Unusenet solves.)
19:43:04 <b_jonas> namespace collision between what?
19:44:19 <zzo38> Potential collision between non-Usenet newsgroups in different servers.
19:45:06 <zzo38> (If it is the same one that is echoed on a different server then the same name should be used, but otherwise it probably shouldn't be the same name.)
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20:33:36 <Taneb> Hell, Phantom_Hoover
21:01:26 <esowiki> [] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68893&oldid=42675 * IFcoltransG * (-6) /* I/O */ Fix grammar
21:10:19 <fizzie> `` wn hap -over | grep '^1' | head -1
21:10:21 <HackEso> 1. hap -- (an accidental happening; "he recorded all the little haps and mishaps of his life")
21:25:21 <arseniiv> I still happen to stumble upon songs from 90s-00s that I heard that time, didn’t know their titles (for older ones, almost for all of them) and then forgot. Still! Though that requires filtering tons of tracks from various radiostreams. It’s very helpful that there’s soft for slicing them for me and ignoring those listened to already
21:26:36 <arseniiv> and the community to maintain a list of streams with their genres and such
21:27:44 <arseniiv> shouldn’t I pet my nostalgia not
21:28:11 <zzo38> I think that they said that Level 4 PostScript will not be made, although I think that there are some things that should be, such as alpha transparency, image device (like Ghostscript has), cvop (to convert procedures into operators), nonenumerable dictionaries, printobject without a tag to send an array directly, and a few others.
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22:38:11 <arseniiv> someone read Unsong? (but please no spoilers)
22:38:49 <fizzie> Sure. It was interesting.
22:39:40 <zzo38> I think PDF is terrible, and that maybe PCL is better, and DVI is also better (for different uses from PCL).
22:39:47 <Phantom_Hoover> i read the first few chapters and didn't like how it was going
22:40:06 <Phantom_Hoover> Taneb, well i recently had to have my insides rearranged but other than that good
22:40:39 <Phantom_Hoover> i somehow stumbled into a job doing tarted-up k for a bank so it turns out esolangs really can get you a job
22:42:13 <fizzie> I talked about Befunge in a job (well, summer internship) interview once, but I'm not sure that contributed.
22:42:16 <b_jonas> Phantom_Hoover: nice. apparently multiple esolangers work in finance, in places where they use either Dyalog APL or K for code, except for mroman who uses burlesque
22:43:10 <b_jonas> Phantom_Hoover: in what way? Dyalog APL and K are both APL-likes, and people use both with some database interface or something in finance
22:43:13 <b_jonas> or isn't that how it works?
22:43:22 <b_jonas> I don't know, I don't want to work in finance
22:43:54 <Phantom_Hoover> K is... still used in some places i'm sure. in a lot of them it's migrated to Q which is K with keywork aliases for the operators and a general pythony feel of everything being a dictionary
22:48:32 <b_jonas> Phantom_Hoover: does finance mean that everything you work with is confidential, you can only test your code on phony generated data and will never know why it fails on real data, and you have to leave your brain locked in the office when you leave and bleach it when you're fired?
22:50:15 <b_jonas> what, how? isn't hedge funds like investments where any information you learn will be useless a minute later anyway, and the programs you write have to react within milliseconds?
22:50:36 <b_jonas> like biology research but faster
22:51:01 <Phantom_Hoover> hedge funds in general are just, like, smaller and less tightly regulated investment outfits than the big banks
22:51:55 <b_jonas> yeah. and they're less tightly regulated because they get access to less confidential data about clients, or so I assume
22:52:34 <Phantom_Hoover> they don't sell their financial services on the open market in the same way the investment banks do i think
22:57:19 <b_jonas> Phantom_Hoover: so what is the work like? can you read the K code that others wrote? or is it all write-only code?
23:02:15 <Phantom_Hoover> nah as i alluded to above i feel it mostly just reads like python
23:02:30 <Phantom_Hoover> like, very weird python, but most of it is twiddling dicts
23:06:13 <Phantom_Hoover> the most k parts of it are the advanced iteration stuff
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23:14:41 <esowiki> [[Embedded HQ9+]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68894&oldid=58087 * IFcoltransG * (+43) +Categories
23:20:44 <esowiki> [[Rotary Quine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68895&oldid=68743 * IFcoltransG * (+27) Category
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23:56:11 <esowiki> [[User:IFcoltransG/HQ9+ derivatives]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68896 * IFcoltransG * (+781) Created a list of HQ9+ derivatives
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