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01:05:05 <spruit11> I don't see the parser error. :/ Maybe tomorrow.
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01:33:39 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Owocean * New user account
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03:09:57 <HackEso> ../karma \ ../karma.orig \ ../karma.rej
03:10:21 <HackEso> 12249:2019-12-06 <oerjän> undo 12128
03:10:32 <HackEso> 12249:2019-12-06 <oerjän> undo 12128
03:10:53 <HackEso> https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/log/tip/karma.orig
03:12:41 <oerjan> that's weird. is undo broken?
03:16:41 <HackEso> rm: missing operand \ Try 'rm --help' for more information.
03:22:08 <HackEso> 12248:2019-12-05 <b_jonäs> karma+ fizzie \ 12128:2019-11-17 <b_jonäs> karma+ fizzie \ 7828:2016-05-06 <hppavilion[1̈]> ` echo "hppavilion[1] has -i karma" >> karma \ 7812:2016-05-06 <hppavilion[1̈]> ` sed -i \'s/now //\' karma \ 7319:2016-03-30 <Elronn̈d> karma+ oren \ 7318:2016-03-30 <Elronn̈d> karma+ \\oren\\ \ 3389:2013-08-07 <Bik̈e> rm karma \ 3193:2013-06-20 <guestböt> karma+ GregoR \ 1529:2013-01-15 <oerjän> karma+ karma \ 1
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03:24:20 <HackEso> patching file karma \ Hunk #1 FAILED at 1. \ 1 out of 1 hunk FAILED -- saving rejects to file karma.rej
03:24:55 <HackEso> https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/file/tip/bin/undo
03:26:05 <oerjan> and i had modified undo to ignore the usual HackEso cd to tmp
03:26:54 <HackEso> 1/1:diff -r a8288b8b34ca -r 89f3cb7bc99f karma \ --- a/karmaSun Nov 17 00:56:47 2019 +0000 \ +++ b/karmaSun Nov 17 00:58:16 2019 +0000 \ @@ -1,2 +1,1 @@ \ -oren has 1 karma. \ -hppavilion[1] has -i karma \ +fizzie now has 1 karma.
03:27:46 <oerjan> `` hg diff -c 12128 | patch -p1 -R
03:28:00 <HackEso> 12248:2019-12-05 <b_jonäs> karma+ fizzie \ 12128:2019-11-17 <b_jonäs> karma+ fizzie \ 7828:2016-05-06 <hppavilion[1̈]> ` echo "hppavilion[1] has -i karma" >> karma \ 7812:2016-05-06 <hppavilion[1̈]> ` sed -i \'s/now //\' karma \ 7319:2016-03-30 <Elronn̈d> karma+ oren \ 7318:2016-03-30 <Elronn̈d> karma+ \\oren\\ \ 3389:2013-08-07 <Bik̈e> rm karma \ 3193:2013-06-20 <guestböt> karma+ GregoR \ 1529:2013-01-15 <oerjän> karma+ karma \ 1
03:28:20 <HackEso> /hackenv/karma.orig \ /hackenv/karma.rej
03:29:11 <oerjan> it says patching yet did nothing
03:29:27 <oerjan> `t ` hg diff -c 12128 | patch -p1 -R
03:29:28 <HackEso> patching file karma \ Hunk #1 FAILED at 1. \ 1 out of 1 hunk FAILED -- saving rejects to file karma.rej
03:32:34 <HackEso> https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/file/tip/karma
03:35:25 <oerjan> *sigh* it's just the repo viewer confusing me because the file logs shown depend on revision you're in
03:37:30 <oerjan> which is presumably what happened back when i did the original undo too
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05:33:28 <esowiki> [[Talk:Alphabet Stew]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69988&oldid=54962 * A * (+315)
05:43:48 <esowiki> [[Husk]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69989&oldid=65582 * A * (+271)
05:44:15 <esowiki> [[Husk]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69990&oldid=69989 * A * (+18)
05:45:07 <esowiki> [[Element]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69991&oldid=58587 * A * (+96)
05:48:32 <esowiki> [[W (A)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69992&oldid=69484 * A * (+158)
05:49:54 <esowiki> [[W (A)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69993&oldid=69992 * A * (+146)
05:51:03 <esowiki> [[W (A)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69994&oldid=69993 * A * (+64) I've already implemented it. Silly me!
05:51:50 <esowiki> [[W (A)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69995&oldid=69994 * A * (+1)
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06:18:00 <int-e> fungot: Do you want to have good looks, too?
06:18:00 <fungot> int-e: fnord esoteric fnord this work: int main()
06:18:20 <int-e> fungot: Well, ouch. You could've just said "no", you know.
06:18:20 <fungot> int-e: so you create a new file, and be able to actually use
06:22:22 <fungot> oerjan: ( figured that since he already got his phd dissertation was written on irix :)
06:23:54 <int-e> And now it's mocking my age?
06:23:59 <fungot> int-e: i'm not going to debate any more with a nicer syntax.
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06:24:37 <fungot> oerjan: ( trust me, it seems viznut really likes it.
06:25:57 <oerjan> i think fungot has been hanging out with the wrong crowd
06:25:57 <fungot> oerjan: how about just making every function call an actor thingy in the other
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09:43:21 <int-e> Apparently I cannot spell "hereditary"... the number of times I've now changed the second letter from 'i' to 'e' is getting embarrassing.
09:54:42 <cpressey> Do you like zygohistomorphic prepromorphisms?
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10:11:42 <int-e> (Another day I might at least try to find out what they are.)
10:13:55 <cpressey> "Used when you really need both semi-mutual recursion and history and to repeatedly apply a natural transformation as you get deeper into the functor."
10:14:22 <esowiki> [[Sunny morning]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69996&oldid=69987 * Hakerh400 * (+538) Added a new example and explained computational class
10:16:54 <cpressey> Y'know, I find it hard to say if I've ever really needed that or not
10:17:29 <int-e> Well, we have explicit recursion.
10:17:45 <int-e> So I usually lose interest soon after cata- and anamorphisms.
10:17:51 <esowiki> [[Sunny morning]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69997&oldid=69996 * Hakerh400 * (+268) Revert the accidentally deleted paragraph
10:18:44 <esowiki> [[Sunny morning]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69998&oldid=69997 * Hakerh400 * (-4)
10:20:34 <int-e> cpressey: Does anybody outside of compiler theory for deforestation need such terminology?
10:21:18 <esowiki> [[Sunny morning]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69999&oldid=69998 * Hakerh400 * (+8)
10:22:40 <cpressey> int-e: There seem to be lots of people who take pointfree-ness very seriously.
10:24:36 <Taneb> There's a whole game show on BBC about expressing Haskell functions without binding names
10:24:39 <Taneb> It's called Pointless
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10:47:14 <wib_jonas> `? zygohistomorphic prepromorphisms
10:47:16 <HackEso> A zygohistomorphic prepromorphism is used when you really need both semi-mutual recursion and history and to repeatedly apply a natural transformation as you get deeper into the functor.
10:48:17 <wib_jonas> int-e: that makes sense, since the verb form is "inherit", not "inheret". but apparently the adjective doesn't inherit the spelling.
10:48:51 <int-e> wib_jonas: Tell that to my fingers.
10:50:53 <int-e> Hmm, I guess that was implied.
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10:55:05 <spruit11> It seems it was just a mistake in priorities.
10:56:29 <wib_jonas> spruit: no, it's a mistake in associativity. (*) and (/) should have the same precedence, and whatever associativity/fixity is the opposite that the power operator should have
10:56:43 <egelbot> (System:/ (System:* (System:cons 2 System:nil) (System:cons 3 System:nil)) (System:cons 4 System:nil))
10:56:50 <egelbot> (System:* (System:* (System:cons 2 System:nil) (System:cons 3 System:nil)) (System:cons 4 System:nil))
10:57:26 <spruit11> Egel doesn't have same precedence operators.
10:58:59 <wib_jonas> spruit11: now you're misparsing that
10:59:25 <wib_jonas> C parses (10/2*2/10) as (((10/2)*2)/10)
10:59:40 <wib_jonas> admittedly I think there are interpreters where / has a higher precedence
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11:00:22 <wib_jonas> but I think almost all of those were written before our prophets K&R declared the table of precedence of C
11:01:48 <spruit11> Yah. I'll note it but I don't think I'll change it, yet.
11:02:01 <spruit11> It wouldn't be too hard, I just like the scheme I have now.
11:02:03 <wib_jonas> sure, we'll just parenthisize everything then
11:07:00 -!- tromp has joined.
11:13:50 <esowiki> [[Talk:Sunny morning]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=70000 * IFcoltransG * (+179) Created page with "I look forward to the next instalment. "Glimmering Noon", perhaps, and declarative? ~~~~"
11:24:12 <spruit11> Nah, I'll document it but I don't see a pressing reason to change it.
11:24:35 <spruit11> The idea is that you can introduce ++ and ** operators yourself and deduce the priorities.
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11:34:00 <wib_jonas> spruit: I don't see why that would stop you from having equal precedences
11:34:42 <wib_jonas> spruit: haskell and prolog lets you introduce custom infix operators, and declare their precedence and fixity
11:34:58 <wib_jonas> it's not even too complicated to parse it
11:35:18 <wib_jonas> as long as you don't have other insane syntax rules like haskell does
11:38:25 <esowiki> [[User:IFcoltransG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70001&oldid=69709 * IFcoltransG * (+177) Formatted and added a list of concepts and serious languages I've worked on pages for
11:39:00 <esowiki> [[User:IFcoltransG]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70002&oldid=70001 * IFcoltransG * (+32) /* Other */ Made links to pages
11:39:54 <spruit11> Nono, it isn't that much more complicated, I agree.
11:40:57 <spruit11> But I never liked the scheme of introducing your own priorities. That can break a lot of stuff.
11:41:29 <spruit11> You're right that if my aim was to implement a GHC I would need to.
11:41:43 <esowiki> [[User:IFcoltransG]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70003&oldid=70002 * IFcoltransG * (+0) /* Other */ Reordered priority list
11:41:55 <spruit11> But Egel isn't a GHC, a 'real' language, but a playground.
11:42:08 <esowiki> [[User:IFcoltransG]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70004&oldid=70003 * IFcoltransG * (+1) Fixed link
11:42:26 <esowiki> [[User:IFcoltransG]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70005&oldid=70004 * IFcoltransG * (-1) Actually fixed the link formatting this time
11:42:35 <spruit11> I.e., I want to see how this simple scheme works out in practice.
11:45:51 <spruit11> The problem with priority introduction is (often) that it's very prone to errors, let alone modification. (What happens accross module boundaries, what happens to your source code after you find out you need to swap two operators.)
11:46:21 <spruit11> Sometimes a simple scheme is best. So I'll just document it as a 'best effort' solution.
11:58:39 <wib_jonas> ``` set -e; cd egel-scripts; >a0.eg echo $'import "/hackenv/tmp/egel-master/include/prelude-hackeso.eg"\nusing System\nusing Math\nusing String\nusing IO\ndef main = ''[F->F F tuple 2 111][F B L U->[false->B|true->F F([T->T T 2][T C->[true->B|false->[false->B L|true->T T(C+1)](C*C<=L)](0==L%C)])(L+1)U](L<U)]'; /hackenv/interps/egel/egel a0.eg
11:58:41 <HackEso> (System:tuple 3 5 7 11 13 17 19 23 29 31 37 41 43 47 53 59 61 67 71 73 79 83 89 97 101 103 107 109)
11:59:01 <wib_jonas> ``` set -e; cd egel-scripts; >a0.eg echo $'import "/hackenv/tmp/egel-master/include/prelude-hackeso.eg"\nusing System\nusing Math\nusing String\nusing IO\ndef main = ''[F->F F tuple 2 777][F B L U->[false->B|true->F F([T->T T 2][T C->[true->B|false->[false->B L|true->T T(C+1)](C*C<=L)](0==L%C)])(L+1)U](L<U)]'; /hackenv/interps/egel/egel a0.eg
11:59:03 <HackEso> (System:tuple 3 5 7 11 13 17 19 23 29 31 37 41 43 47 53 59 61 67 71 73 79 83 89 97 101 103 107 109 113 127 131 137 139 149 151 157 163 167 173 179 181 191 193 197 199 211 223 227 229 233 239 241 251 257 263 269 271 277 281 283 293 307 311 313 317 331 337 347 349 353 359 367 373 379 383 389 397 401 409 419 421 431 433 439 443 449 457 461 463 467 479 487 491 499 503 509 521 523 541 547 557 563 569 571 577 587 593 599 601 607 613 617 619 631 6
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11:59:20 <wib_jonas> `fetch /hackenv/interps/egel/readme-hackeso.txt https://hack.esolangs.org/get/interps/egel/readme-hackeso.txt
11:59:21 <HackEso> 2020-02-21 11:59:20 URL:https://hack.esolangs.org/get/interps/egel/readme-hackeso.txt [1795/1795] -> "/hackenv/interps/egel/readme-hackeso.txt" [1]
12:01:00 <cpressey> Weeks ago, I puzzled over what it meant for Frege to be "a Haskell", now I'm going to puzzle over what it means to implement "a GHC".
12:01:41 <cpressey> For instance, to implement a GHC, must you be physically located in Glasgow? Is it a strict requirement?
12:02:40 <wib_jonas> cpressey: I don't know. there was an esoteric language featured on ICFP called GHC, but totally unrelated to the famous GHC
12:02:54 <wib_jonas> I don't know if it was implemented in Glasgow though
12:04:28 <esowiki> [[User:B jonas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70006&oldid=68094 * B jonas * (+11)
12:12:15 <spruit11> I implemented a GHC once, the Grafwegen Hi Compiler. It was a language I made prior to Egel but it was way too much to get right. (A heterodox type system, compiled to C, ..)
12:13:05 <spruit11> Most I learned was: don't create 'real' languages by yourself. The point where that can be done as a one-man-effort is gone.
12:13:42 <wib_jonas> ``` set -e; cd egel-scripts; >a0.eg echo $'import "/hackenv/tmp/egel-master/include/prelude-hackeso.eg"\nusing System\nusing Math\nusing String\nusing IO\ndef main = ''(3,3*3)'; /hackenv/interps/egel/egel a0.eg
12:14:25 <wib_jonas> ``` set -e; cd egel-scripts; d=/hackenv/tmp/egel-master/include/; mkdir -vp "$d"; echo BOO > "$d/prelude-hackeso.eg"; echo done
12:14:30 <wib_jonas> ``` set -e; cd egel-scripts; >a0.eg echo $'import "/hackenv/tmp/egel-master/include/prelude-hackeso.eg"\nusing System\nusing Math\nusing String\nusing IO\ndef main = ''(3,3*3)'; /hackenv/interps/egel/egel a0.eg
12:14:31 <HackEso> /hackenv/tmp/egel-master/include/prelude-hackeso.eg:1:1:syntactical:declaration or directive expected
12:15:38 <wib_jonas> spruit11: if I give an absolute path (any path starting with a slash), you should not search for that file under the search path, you should only use the path as is
12:15:59 <wib_jonas> spruit11: because as is, the interpreter can still be confused by files in the pwd, so you can't just run egel scripts in any pwd
12:16:40 <wib_jonas> spruit11: this is important because it's darned hard to work it around properly by whoever invokes egel
12:17:33 <wib_jonas> you'd need to temporarily chdir to a safe path, but pass a file descriptor to the old wd, start egel, then in the wrapper script, after loading libraries, fchdir to the old wd, so that the egel script itself can conveniently access files in the wd with relative names
12:18:17 <spruit11> You need it to not search if the path start with '/
12:18:33 <wib_jonas> yes, don't prepend stuff to absolute paths,
12:18:57 <wib_jonas> and ideally also add command-line switches such that I can invoke egel with my own search path that doesn't include "."
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12:19:25 <wib_jonas> so in this case I'd put /hackenv/interps/egel into the search path, but . shouldn't be in that search path
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12:20:16 <wib_jonas> or does the -I switch already do that? I haven't actually tested
12:20:50 <wib_jonas> ``` set -e; cd egel-scripts; >a0.eg echo $'import "prelude-hackeso.eg"\nusing System\nusing Math\nusing String\nusing IO\ndef main = ''(3,3*3)'; /hackenv/interps/egel/egel -I /hackenv/interps/egel/ a0.eg
12:21:17 <wib_jonas> ``` set -e; cd egel-scripts; d=/hackenv/tmp/egel-master/include/; echo BOO > "$d/perlude-hackeso.eg"; echo done
12:21:29 <wib_jonas> ``` set -e; cd egel-scripts; >a0.eg echo $'import "perlude-hackeso.eg"\nusing System\nusing Math\nusing String\nusing IO\ndef main = ''(3,3*3)'; /hackenv/interps/egel/egel -I /hackenv/interps/egel/ a0.eg
12:21:30 <HackEso> a0.eg:1:1:input/output:file "perlude-hackeso.eg" not found
12:21:52 <wib_jonas> ``` set -e; cd egel-scripts; >a0.eg echo $'import "perlude-hackeso.eg"\nusing System\nusing Math\nusing String\nusing IO\ndef main = ''(3,3*3)'; /hackenv/interps/egel/egel a0.eg
12:21:53 <HackEso> a0.eg:1:1:input/output:file "perlude-hackeso.eg" not found
12:23:22 <int-e> tromp: If you're interested, I'd be happy to get some feedback on the introduction I wrote for https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/Goodstein.pdf ... also, if there's a better way to cite BLC I'm all ears.
12:23:23 <wib_jonas> ``` set -e; >/hackenv/tmp/egel-scripts/hackenv/interps/egel/perlude-hackeso.eg" echo BOO; echo done
12:23:25 <HackEso> bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `"' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
12:23:29 <spruit11> I committed the start with '/' exception. No idea whether it'll work.
12:23:31 <wib_jonas> ``` set -e; >/hackenv/tmp/egel-scripts/hackenv/interps/egel/perlude-hackeso.eg echo BOO; echo done
12:23:32 <HackEso> bash: /hackenv/tmp/egel-scripts/hackenv/interps/egel/perlude-hackeso.eg: No such file or directory
12:23:58 <wib_jonas> ``` set -e; mkdir -pv /hackenv/tmp/egel-scripts/hackenv/interps/egel/
12:23:59 <HackEso> mkdir: created directory '/hackenv/tmp/egel-scripts/hackenv' \ mkdir: created directory '/hackenv/tmp/egel-scripts/hackenv/interps' \ mkdir: created directory '/hackenv/tmp/egel-scripts/hackenv/interps/egel/'
12:24:11 <wib_jonas> ``` set -e; >/hackenv/tmp/egel-scripts/hackenv/interps/egel/prelude-hackeso.eg echo BOO; echo done
12:24:18 <wib_jonas> ``` set -e; >/hackenv/tmp/egel-scripts/hackenv/interps/egel/perlude-hackeso.eg echo BOO; echo done
12:24:39 <wib_jonas> ``` set -e; cd egel-scripts; >a0.eg echo $'import "perlude-hackeso.eg"\nusing System\nusing Math\nusing String\nusing IO\ndef main = ''(3,3*4)'; /hackenv/interps/egel/egel a0.eg
12:24:40 <HackEso> a0.eg:1:1:input/output:file "perlude-hackeso.eg" not found
12:24:43 <int-e> tromp: (My plan is to submit it to the AFP, https://www.isa-afp.org/ )
12:25:04 <wib_jonas> ``` set -e; >/hackenv/tmp/egel-scripts/perlude-hackeso.eg echo BOO; echo done
12:25:08 <wib_jonas> ``` set -e; >/hackenv/tmp/egel-scripts/prelude-hackeso.eg echo BOO; echo done
12:25:08 * int-e kicks HackEso in the sheens.
12:25:14 <wib_jonas> ``` set -e; cd egel-scripts; >a0.eg echo $'import "perlude-hackeso.eg"\nusing System\nusing Math\nusing String\nusing IO\ndef main = ''(3,3*5)'; /hackenv/interps/egel/egel a0.eg
12:25:15 <HackEso> perlude-hackeso.eg:1:1:syntactical:declaration or directive expected
12:25:33 <wib_jonas> ``` set -e; cd egel-scripts; >a0.eg echo $'import "perlude-hackeso.eg"\nusing System\nusing Math\nusing String\nusing IO\ndef main = ''(3,3*5)'; /hackenv/interps/egel/egel -I /hackenv/interps/egel a0.eg
12:25:34 <HackEso> perlude-hackeso.eg:1:1:syntactical:declaration or directive expected
12:25:39 <wib_jonas> ``` set -e; cd egel-scripts; >a0.eg echo $'import "prelude-hackeso.eg"\nusing System\nusing Math\nusing String\nusing IO\ndef main = ''(3,3*5)'; /hackenv/interps/egel/egel -I /hackenv/interps/egel a0.eg
12:25:40 <HackEso> prelude-hackeso.eg:1:1:syntactical:declaration or directive expected
12:26:09 <wib_jonas> ``` rm -fv /hackenv/tmp/egel-scripts/prelude-hackeso.eg
12:26:11 <HackEso> removed '/hackenv/tmp/egel-scripts/prelude-hackeso.eg'
12:26:19 <wib_jonas> ``` set -e; cd egel-scripts; >a0.eg echo $'import "prelude-hackeso.eg"\nusing System\nusing Math\nusing String\nusing IO\ndef main = ''(3,3*5)'; /hackenv/interps/egel/egel -I /hackenv/interps/egel a0.eg
12:26:30 <wib_jonas> yes, my second object is still there
12:27:15 <wib_jonas> spruit11: ideally, make it so that if you give -I options from command line, then egel doesn't search in . , unless of course you give -I . in the command line. if you don't want that, for compatibility, then add some other switch to not search in .
12:27:36 <wib_jonas> because it would be better to also not have to use absolute paths
12:28:58 <lambdabot> Plugin `system' failed with: user error (invalid usage)
12:31:41 <int-e> Heh maybe I can induce cpressey to give feedback too if I claim that it's all about the power of folds.
12:33:27 <spruit11> I can change it but I am not sure what it'll break.. It'll take a bit to surpress '.'.
12:33:40 <int-e> (The fold angle is not a lie but I'm really not framing it in this way.)
12:35:33 <wib_jonas> spruit: I don't need it implicitly, it can be a different switch. I don't need it in the master version, I can make a fork. and I don't need it in a HackEso toy language, but I would need it in a serious language.
12:36:34 <wib_jonas> spruit: for quite a while I ran perl with a wrapper script that removes . from the search path (that's just a switch -M-lib=. or some such, I don't recall the exact syntax), until eventually perl removed it by default in some major version update
12:37:00 <spruit11> Ah well. I hacked something. Fingers crossed.
12:37:13 <wib_jonas> also I probably won't look at it today
12:37:34 <wib_jonas> and every time I say "I won't look at it today" there's some chance that I get bored and never get back to experimenting with the language
12:39:47 <spruit11> I committed the change which should surpress '.' when -I is used.
12:40:27 <spruit11> No problem. You already gave Egel a lot of attention.
12:40:37 <spruit11> It's about time to wrap it up?
12:41:08 <spruit11> I mean, you want to create a wrapper around an installation, right?
12:41:23 <spruit11> (BTW, comment is #, missed that yesterday.)
12:46:12 <spruit11> Real life takes over here too. BBL.
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12:53:26 <wib_jonas> spruit11: I'll definitely create a wrapper, and if you fixed those two mistakes then the wrapper will be able to work well
12:53:42 <wib_jonas> I just won't create it now, because I have to do real payed work too, or pretend to or whatever
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13:00:46 <cpressey> int-e: I'm flattered but also fairly sure that any feedback I have would not be useful to you
13:02:16 <int-e> cpressey: Well I wouldn't know. But you were not really involved in this :)
13:06:44 <tromp> int-e in explaining hereditary notation, i wouldn't change 1 to 2^0, as 1 is alrd a digit in base 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodstein%27s_theorem#Hereditary_base-n_notation doesn't do that either
13:09:26 <int-e> But this way it's closer to how the code works. Though I guess I should put the digits last (3^0 * 2 rather than 2 * 3^0) for the same reason...
13:13:48 <int-e> Oh whatever, I changed it
13:14:36 <tromp> maybe explain that later when you get to the code. for reader's initial understanding it's better to stop at digits below b, i think
13:14:53 <tromp> and limit notational clutter
13:15:29 <tromp> for BLC reference, use instead (or in addition) the reference 1 on https://tromp.github.io/cl/Binary_lambda_calculus.html
13:15:51 <tromp> which might survive my website:)
13:18:06 <int-e> Hmm, the links are both on tromp.github.io. The Binary_lambda_calculus.html doesn't have a page title :/
13:18:44 <int-e> But I'll pretend it's "Binary lambda calculus".
13:19:07 <int-e> (And it links to the playground anyway, if the reader makes it to the bottom.)
13:21:31 <tromp> i mean your paper should containt the reference to John Tromp, Binary Lambda Calculus and Combinatory Logic, in Randomness And Complexity, from Leibniz To Chaitin, ed. Cristian S. Calude, World Scientific Publishing Company, October 2008. (The last reference, to an initial Haskell implementation, is dated 2004)
13:28:16 <tromp> than the ordinal*s* themselves.
13:30:21 <tromp> as trees (nested lists)
13:35:36 <int-e> tromp: Tweaked references. Do you have page numbers for your chapter? (I now actually cite Goodstein too)
13:36:18 <int-e> 1944. Who knew people were interested in stuff like that back then. ;)
13:38:07 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Vorov2 * New user account
13:40:29 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70007&oldid=69975 * Vorov2 * (+218) /* Introductions */
13:44:43 <esowiki> [[User:Vorov2]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=70008 * Vorov2 * (+215) Created page with "I am a software developer from Russia. I am interested in programming language design. I have developed two programming languages: [https://github.com/vorov2/ela Ela] and [htt..."
13:45:06 <int-e> tromp: Oh and I've added an acknowledgement.
13:45:28 <Taneb> int-e: what is this you're working on?
13:47:20 <int-e> Taneb: A formalization of the Goodstein function in connection with lambda calculus; https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/Goodstein.pdf is the current draft document.
13:48:09 <Taneb> I don't understand this but luckly you have linked me the perfect thing to begin learning with
13:48:32 <int-e> hrm, with a broken reference, *fixes*
13:51:14 <tromp> "we start counting at 1" -> "the first argument is one less than base, so 0 is not valid"
13:53:14 <int-e> tromp: Hmm. Yeah I can add that. But one could change c+2 and c+1 to c+3 and c+2 below and start counting at 0.
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14:00:10 <Taneb> int-e: thank you, this is interesting
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14:32:51 <esowiki> [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70009&oldid=69899 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+0) /* "Hello" program */
14:33:35 <esowiki> [[Exp]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70010&oldid=69840 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+2) /* Cat program (1 character) */
14:33:55 <esowiki> [[Exp]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70011&oldid=70010 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+6) /* Cat program (1 character) */
14:41:13 <int-e> Taneb: Ah does that mean you actually understand it (if you understand the introduction and maybe a bit of the Specification section I'll be quite happy.)
14:41:58 <int-e> (Will be afk for a bit, but I will read replies.)
14:42:51 <wib_jonas> "<Taneb> I don't understand this but luckly you have linked me the perfect thing to begin learning with <int-e> Taneb: Ah does that mean you actually understand it" hmm, is that quote material?
14:49:24 <wib_jonas> `addquоte <Taneb> I don't understand this but luckly you have linked me the perfect thing to begin learning with <int-e> Taneb: Ah does that mean you actually understand it [...]
14:49:24 <HackEso> addquоte? No such file or directory
15:05:52 <esowiki> [[Nybblang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70012&oldid=69898 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+771)
15:06:14 <esowiki> [[Nybblang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70013&oldid=70012 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+0) /* Turing-Complete Nybblang */
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15:16:04 <int-e> wib_jonas: I thought they were different "this".
15:19:50 <int-e> wib_jonas: You also misassigned context, fwiw.
15:20:13 <int-e> wib_jonas: I was replying to the "the perfect thing to begin learning with" part.
15:24:34 <wib_jonas> int-e: so Taneb understands a different article that your article references?
15:26:01 <int-e> wib_jonas: I thought the scope of "this" was just the IRC line... in particular, the reference to the Goodstein function.
15:30:42 <Taneb> To actually answer the question, I'm afraid I was a little confused so I looked at the Wikipedia page for the Goodstein function to clarify things
15:31:05 <Taneb> (I had in my head that you always went base 2 to base 3, rather than base n to base n + 1)
15:33:36 <int-e> Yeah I'll add "The next step is the same with $b$ incremented by $1$, and so on."
15:34:33 <int-e> The other thing *probably* wouldn't terminate.
15:34:34 <Taneb> Looking back it it, I thought your explanation had all the bits I needed, I just misunderstood
15:35:03 <int-e> Yeah but I can also see how it could be misunderstood. This kind of feedback is valuable!
15:35:34 <int-e> Basically it was ambiguous without the example and that's less than ideal.
15:44:47 <int-e> And I made another small update to the pdf.
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16:58:25 <int-e> Oh well. I guess I'll just submit it now :)
17:09:41 <wib_jonas> if you made changes, always sleep a day on it, read it again, and submit it only if you haven't made changes for a day, unless you're in a real time pressure
17:10:26 <int-e> I've slept on it once already ;-)
17:11:30 <int-e> And besides, it's done.
17:11:41 <wib_jonas> yes, but then you made a small update on it afterwards. sleep until it reaches a fixed point.
17:12:20 <int-e> That process would terminate, but only because my life time is finite.
17:12:57 <wib_jonas> I guess it doesn't matter, even if it seems to be in a fixed point, you'll find an error soon after you submit it
17:13:49 <int-e> Also, the good news is that AFP entries can be updated.
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17:14:16 <int-e> And... the material is formalized, the the substance of it must be correct.
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20:10:49 <esowiki> [[User talk:Vorov2]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=70014 * Hex96 * (+99) Created page with "hoi ~~~~"
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20:25:04 <esowiki> [[Grid]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70015&oldid=65985 * Hakerh400 * (+6) Update links
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20:38:44 <HackEso> #!/bin/bash \ if /bin/ls -id "$@" 2>/dev/null | grep -q ^"$(/bin/ls -id /hackenv/wisdom | cut -d\ -f 1)" && [[ "$IRC_TARGET" == \#* ]]; then echo 'As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try listing it in private instead.'; else exec -a ls /bin/ls "$@"; fi
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20:52:16 <esowiki> [[Asswhipper]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=70018 * Asasnat * (+25) Redirected page to [[Mindwhipper]]
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