> 1585700053 228897 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70556&oldid=70504 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+13) 10/* C */ > 1585700257 332736 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Cheers14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70557&oldid=50618 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+324) 10added categories > 1585700583 441137 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Flurry14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70558&oldid=66937 5* 03Challenger5 5* (+1058) 10 > 1585700734 191554 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Flurry14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70559&oldid=70552 5* 03Challenger5 5* (+264) 10 < 1585700828 706324 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric > 1585702992 411082 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Z14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70560&oldid=70550 5* 03Challenger5 5* (+854) 10 > 1585703069 890751 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Z14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70561&oldid=70560 5* 03Challenger5 5* (+180) 10 > 1585703166 899785 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Z14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70562&oldid=62308 5* 03Challenger5 5* (+89) 10 < 1585706584 263785 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric > 1585707284 951772 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ly14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70563&oldid=69953 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+4) 10/* Commands */ Updated whether the development is active or not < 1585707632 73661 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jhqigegvcxylszlx QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1585708542 682403 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Charm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70564&oldid=54864 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+18) 10Changed from 'is actively maintained' to 'was actively maintained' < 1585708670 825754 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:6110:b4d5:bc2b:be45 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1585708811 302365 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1585709002 898749 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1585709110 190567 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1585711006 809566 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: I updated BB.txt and added my code, so that should answer all your questions > 1585717359 860052 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Z14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70565&oldid=70561 5* 03Challenger5 5* (-12) 10move my message to respect signature > 1585717391 831945 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Z14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70566&oldid=70562 5* 03Challenger5 5* (-28) 10remove unused feature < 1585719116 420946 :WillGibson!~ManaroDen@192.145.124.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585719672 947536 :WillGibson!~ManaroDen@192.145.124.92 PART :#esoteric < 1585719931 272023 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585720421 672903 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1585724011 213713 :aji!~alex@unaffiliated/aji QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1585724098 66036 :shinh_!~i@129.EC0234U.cyberhome.ne.jp QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1585724463 4532 :aji!~alex@unaffiliated/aji JOIN :#esoteric < 1585724479 277452 :shinh_!~i@129.EC0234U.cyberhome.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1585724714 873992 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1585724745 712058 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1585724993 222527 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1585725173 423059 :ashnur!~rak@unaffiliated/ashnur JOIN :#esoteric < 1585725195 988064 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1585725214 96600 :ashnur!~rak@unaffiliated/ashnur PART #esoteric :"WeeChat 2.7.1" < 1585730913 49215 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1585733067 328010 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1585733092 899443 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585733425 786994 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric > 1585735164 650035 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Vitsy14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70567&oldid=50645 5* 03VTCAKAVSMoACE 5* (-1) 10 < 1585736689 393225 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.238.3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585736813 297146 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ceprmekyjvaxvhhu JOIN :#esoteric < 1585737892 432433 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1585738012 545076 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :greets < 1585738038 906378 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey hows it going < 1585738099 411564 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's alright < 1585739013 114343 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIGBOVIK conference procedings are released < 1585739017 887125 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sigbovik.org/2020/ < 1585739018 571229 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1585739026 495139 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was checking out poc or gtfo recently < 1585739029 418334 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just remembered it recently < 1585739672 942386 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: thanks for those nice additions. I see how (\1 (\\3 2)) is in your set W. Btw, do you mind me renaming B to V and W' to B in BB.txt ? < 1585740062 499650 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: fine with me < 1585740092 822672 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I used V for something else initially but then got rid of that) < 1585740124 269093 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :B for bodies and V for variables is more mnemonic. plus W and W' are harder to tell apart < 1585740194 501930 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :This generalizes to things like W T W -> H[W T W], but I haven't checked whether that applies to any of the remaining size 32 cases. < 1585740300 895548 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There's also W W W -> H[W W W], and W W T -> H[W W T] all with slightly different definitions for W and B) < 1585740313 911945 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So the families explode a bit.) < 1585740376 13762 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i noticed one of those W W W -> H[W W W] cases leading my program to hang at 34 < 1585740395 515806 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine too < 1585740404 121186 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, I didn't investigate which case it was) < 1585740425 4477 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was (\1 1 1) (\\1 2 2) < 1585740427 416494 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but it does run out of memory at 34) < 1585740463 158641 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :where memory is what I have here, which is 32G. < 1585740486 182699 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my desktop has the same:) < 1585740509 593573 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\1 1 1) (\\1 (\3) 1) looks like it is a WTW case. < 1585740529 202492 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, or does it. < 1585740569 213975 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, that was too quick. It's (unless I'm confusing myself) different. < 1585740618 16972 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. I *am* confusing myself. < 1585740655 480437 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Namely, 1 refers to the second argument, not the first.) < 1585740749 431192 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the conclusion is that generalizing this criterion would get rid of at least one remaining case for BB(32). < 1585740816 669357 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any conditions on H? < 1585740878 905739 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: H ::= □ | \v. H | H T -- it's a context with the hole in head position < 1585740891 371366 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hence H) < 1585740892 132700 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1585741091 258304 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :functional programming I smell < 1585741096 897985 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :understand nothing < 1585741150 680043 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: Anyway, the reason I blocked your question yesterday was because I had to figure out how to present this nicely... the initial thought process was very convoluted and not as rigorous as I liked. Sleeping on it helped... I could put things together in my head in the morning, then get up and write them down :) < 1585741195 570065 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nice it is:) < 1585741261 551677 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And as things stood yesterday, it might have turned out that the criterion was flawed. Embarrassing, but less embarrassing than being told by somebodye else :P -- I have some pride.) < 1585741542 933807 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder whether there's any serious literature on this question... identifying lambda terms with normal form. < 1585741564 89024 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, without. < 1585741576 534468 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would be interested in that oto < 1585741618 208096 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they are called head recurrent terms < 1585741638 950255 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a small subclass < 1585741940 55552 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :studying busy beavers is an exercise in recognizing ever wider classes of divergent behaviour < 1585742088 574282 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also, at some point, of compressing computations which we already know will be needed to find BB(38). < 1585742116 338494 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because 2^65536 is uncomfortably big) < 1585742122 251721 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least lambda calculus lends itself better to that than turing machines:) < 1585742144 196851 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much better < 1585742162 859429 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah the granularity is finer, so the difficulty rises a bit more gracefully. < 1585742166 112275 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really interesting to study the lambda calculus BB < 1585742180 31962 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TM busy beaver is stuck at 5 states, which is almost 50 bits < 1585742186 275894 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it would also be interesting to check out the shortest terms that produce 2^n reductions and similar other functions < 1585742243 276216 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if you'd parameterize TMs by number of non-terminating transitions instead, you could do something more interesting < 1585742279 272812 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But also, TMs are kind of icky to analyse; I wouldn't know where to begin :) < 1585742382 211514 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, that's a lie. There's a fairly obvious notion of stationary loops that don't change the tape, and shifting loops that write the same string to the tape over and over again. And after that is where I think it becomes really ugly.) < 1585742441 791503 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :both cases of tape-independent behaviour < 1585742671 870640 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1585742877 527288 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's comparable to where we're at with the BLCBBs; the next step is bound to involve some sort of induction. Though, perhaps, there are some devilishly clever context-free-ish grammars (along the lines of W) that describe sets of terms that have no normal forms and are closed under left-most outer-most reduction. < 1585743121 692162 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1585743718 182035 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1585744453 671745 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: could you represent Bot by Var maxInt instead ? < 1585744490 263009 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming incv would preserve it) < 1585744623 422638 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably? Var -1 is another idea. But I started from scratch and this felt cleaner. < 1585744656 827348 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it behaves similarly to my function eqfree in BB.lhs < 1585744757 998847 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could avoid Bot by writing a custom S.member < 1585744796 717172 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems cleaner still < 1585744874 191447 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If I had worked on top of AIT.lhs I would probably have resorted to such trickery.) < 1585744889 880221 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1585744893 355981 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :BLC.lhs of course < 1585744903 644945 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1585744919 826476 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :/undo < 1585744935 329998 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Equality modulo free vars is hardly trickery < 1585744953 302077 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant the Var -1 idea. < 1585744959 196304 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sure < 1585745017 618105 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but expressing Equality modulo free vars is cleaner than adding a Bot constructor to your terms < 1585745051 53071 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems cleaner imo :-) < 1585745164 732508 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah but it doesn't interact nicely with Ord. < 1585745181 452622 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not that it really matters) < 1585745245 981438 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it matters for efficiency of set membership I guess < 1585745274 652170 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure but that's hardly the bottleneck at the set sizes I allow < 1585745295 818910 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used Data.Set out of habit, really. < 1585745351 677642 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, you don't need to add all r to the set, just the ones where subst 0 a b is larger in size than r < 1585745377 299102 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. the local size minima < 1585745421 210123 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably don't care :) < 1585745449 783961 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not at these sizes no:) < 1585745452 281843 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, good point. < 1585745477 630639 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I'm worried that it would explode. :) < 1585745482 744393 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, my understanding of Haskell is lacking < 1585745508 763322 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought i could change your b <- return (simp b) to let b = simp b < 1585745518 824608 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's recursive < 1585745532 541636 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, now I see < 1585745547 180887 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i could just let sb = simp b < 1585745552 441107 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1585745553 736827 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and avoid the reuse of b < 1585745569 87585 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the shadowing of the old version is a feature here < 1585745591 132254 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so? < 1585745605 351240 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means I will not accidently use it. < 1585745623 650523 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok. < 1585745640 779669 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sanitation feature:) < 1585745659 79211 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually use primes... and then I produce bugs by missing a prime somewhere :-/ < 1585745694 659828 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I've become a believer in deliberate shadowing of identifiers. < 1585745722 20178 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're a prime example of a shadowy character:-) < 1585745730 161209 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in lieu of assignments from imperative programming languages < 1585745829 864372 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1585745866 129600 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i guess imperative programs can be directly transcribed with x = E replaced by x <- Just E < 1585745866 768209 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f n | n <- n+1, n <- n*2 = n in f 4 < 1585745869 314360 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 10 < 1585746010 532644 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f n = do n <- Just n+1; n <- Just n*2 in f 4 < 1585746014 64918 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : error: < 1585746014 64962 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : The last statement in a 'do' block must be an expression < 1585746014 64970 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : n <- Just n * 2 < 1585746072 370511 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f n = do n <- Just n+1; n <- Just n*2; return n in f 4 < 1585746076 386819 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : error: < 1585746076 386872 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : • No instance for (Num (Maybe Integer)) < 1585746076 386881 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of ‘e_1124’ < 1585746089 706303 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1585746132 864261 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f n = do n <- Just (n+1); n <- Just n*2; return n in f 4 < 1585746136 445395 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : error: < 1585746136 589629 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : • No instance for (Num (Maybe Integer)) < 1585746136 589668 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of ‘e_1124’ < 1585746142 694631 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f n = do n <- Just (n+1); n <- Just (n*2); return n in f 4 < 1585746145 468075 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Just 10 < 1585746171 200703 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just ice at last:-) > 1585746189 359792 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70568&oldid=70502 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+388) 10REgeex < 1585747697 861751 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does your simpA have an argument i that's always 0 ? < 1585747790 87839 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I had some idea that used it with 1 but didn't pan out < 1585747873 908200 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :related to the "level 2" beta reduction (\x\y. u) v w -> (\x. u[y := w]) v < 1585747918 230525 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And by "didn't pan out" I mean it didn't help at the sizes I currently care about. < 1585748008 20617 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :quesiton about the Wiki. Ellipsis and A are categorized as Languages, whereas Unary and Lenguage are categorized as joke languages. they're essentially the same language. what makes one of them a joke language and the other a language? are they just on the border where they can just be categorized either? < 1585748113 882054 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : you gotta keep those categories balanced > 1585748214 468888 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SimPL14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=70569 5* 03B jonas 5* (+601) 10Created page with "'''SimPL''' is an esoteric programming language with very simple syntax. SimPL programs are very large because their contents are encoded in unary, there is only one program..." > 1585748297 608887 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SimPL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70570&oldid=70569 5* 03B jonas 5* (+93) 10 < 1585752135 279044 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1585752250 863180 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1585753233 827240 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: Thanks btw, you definitely have a point about using Bot to mark free variables. I don't think it actually goes wrong just yet, but it easily could... < 1585753287 293961 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm rewriting my BB.lhs based on your improvements < 1585753328 421460 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :using the S.Set and storing the minimal size r < 1585753372 786405 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1585753378 292268 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and using data BBClass = NormalForm DB | Diverging | Unknown for reduction results < 1585753381 643104 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and even if it couldn't go wrong, the reasons why it doesn't happen are too subtle :) < 1585753397 772992 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1585753418 380431 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: nice < 1585754148 44929 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1585764427 340520 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1585764558 217746 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1585765925 723127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minimal operation language14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=70571 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1484) 10Created page with "{{Template:Distinguish/Confusion|Minimal}} '''Minimal operation language''' is a test esolang by [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow]], who will try to implement it and possibly fai..." > 1585765956 561365 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70572&oldid=70568 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+78) 10 < 1585766288 545672 :iczero!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero NICK :ferris-ball < 1585766714 214281 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1585766714 576808 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony NICK :ferrisier-ball > 1585767003 494877 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minimal operation language14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70573&oldid=70571 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+32) 10/* Syntax */ > 1585768396 860538 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minimal operation language14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70574&oldid=70573 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* Syntax */ < 1585769052 809686 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1585769558 718721 :trn!jhj@prone.ws QUIT :Quit: quit < 1585769652 960652 :ferrisier-ball!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony NICK :moony < 1585769663 500099 :ferris-ball!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero NICK :iczero < 1585769766 449176 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony NICK :noomy < 1585769777 644913 :laerlingSAP!~laerlings@unaffiliated/laerlingsap QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.7.3 - https://znc.in < 1585769851 354652 :laerlingSAP!~laerlings@unaffiliated/laerlingsap JOIN :#esoteric < 1585770168 274241 :trn!jhj@prone.ws JOIN :#esoteric < 1585776341 301148 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585776397 797748 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1585776421 316849 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1585777099 363258 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.238.3 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1585777304 335188 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIGBOVIK talks are now being broadcast. < 1585778437 291999 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe QUIT :Quit: Hugs~ <3 < 1585778888 960096 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778889 8111 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-171-136.cdrr.qwest.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778889 8161 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778889 14988 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778889 54307 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778889 61164 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778889 61214 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778889 72368 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778889 85324 :shinh_!~i@129.EC0234U.cyberhome.ne.jp QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778889 106402 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778889 113901 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@sorunome.de QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778889 132483 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-005-215-076.178.005.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778889 132518 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778889 210976 :diverger!~div@172.83.44.83 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778889 244110 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778889 251067 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778889 257861 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778890 709516 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-bawgdlwqsseuynoq QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778890 829046 :APic!apic@apic.name QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778890 855069 :noomy!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778891 627791 :xavo[m]!undersco1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-mrhemdhwynbtbmzu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778891 685070 :xylochoron[m]!xylochoron@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ejtmkvvaetuatfrs QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778891 814549 :ocharles!sid30093@musicbrainz/user/ocharles QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778891 821361 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-234-164-48.compute-1.amazonaws.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778892 543419 :mich181189!sid268336@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xchlnniznwjwexfe QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778892 551125 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778892 557846 :Soni!~quassel@unaffiliated/soniex2 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778892 572846 :iczero!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778892 572895 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778892 583045 :rodgort!~rodgort@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778892 636017 :mniip!~mniip@freenode/staff/mniip QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778892 644454 :Cale!~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778892 681280 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778892 693507 :BWBellairs!~bwbellair@hellomouse/dev/bwbellairs QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778892 721142 :aji!~alex@unaffiliated/aji QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778892 737937 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778892 749637 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778892 757787 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778892 804140 :Deewiant!~deewiant@de1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778892 811452 :LBPHacker!lbphacker@trigraph.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778893 240224 :dnm_!sid401311@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iofdzlpooiztpuat QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778893 255612 :glowcoil!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ljsrjcnfjtfrpofz QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778893 279174 :stux!stux2@grid9.quadspeedi.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778893 309539 :haavard!root@haavard.me QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778893 316350 :ineiros!ineiros@kapsi.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778893 374236 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778893 435666 :sparr!~sparr@pdpc/supporter/active/sparr QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778893 477110 :myndzi!myndzi@tetrisguide.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778893 498864 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778893 539496 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778893 539541 :nchambers!uplime@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778893 578698 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778893 585587 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778893 607070 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uokwdxpbfutetegr QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778893 614472 :^[_!sid43445@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/sixth/zgrep QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778893 665495 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778893 693175 :ornxka!~ornxka@unaffiliated/ornx QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778893 699890 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778893 706706 :diginet!~diginet@107.170.146.29 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778893 713430 :jix!~jix@static.71.5.69.159.clients.your-server.de QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778893 723776 :gitlogger!~gitlogger@206.ip-51-91-102.eu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778893 730598 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778893 754992 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778893 763457 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778893 770191 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778893 783447 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778893 821066 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778893 831049 :laerling!~lsf@unaffiliated/laerling QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778893 838080 :shig!~davidb@inara.oztechninja.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778893 845019 :catern!~catern@catern.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778893 901600 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ceprmekyjvaxvhhu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778893 971780 :dog_star!sid310875@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bkmsprfnywrkykzt QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778893 997767 :relrod!~relrod@redhat/relrod QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778894 12735 :lynn_!sid154965@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qhrpzgxcylkpquuh QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778894 19965 :ProofTechnique!sid79547@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ghyzuqdvajivhjps QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778894 60458 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778894 67526 :vertrex!~vertrex@unaffiliated/vertrex QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778894 74321 :interruptinuse!~interrupt@girl.mrtheplague.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778894 82510 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778894 98019 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778894 169451 :howlands_!gilesgate@sdf-eu.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778894 221217 :Banana51!~user@unaffiliated/banana51 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778894 262927 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-whkacrlzgwtokujm QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778894 363396 :trn!jhj@prone.ws QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778894 370257 :laerlingSAP!~laerlings@unaffiliated/laerlingsap QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778894 393930 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778894 400688 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778894 408470 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778894 418153 :imode-ruby!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778894 443199 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-146-112-4.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778894 449866 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-b0486e-15.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778894 449989 :lifthrasiir_!~lifthrasi@ec2-52-79-98-81.ap-northeast-2.compute.amazonaws.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778894 450108 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :*.net *.split < 1585778894 456946 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-zjoagjvsfoxwfeot QUIT :*.net *.split > 1585779405 989830 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Binyamin 5* 10New user account > 1585779862 644444 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70575&oldid=70539 5* 03Binyamin 5* (+197) 10 < 1585780262 230613 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 230677 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 230689 :trn!jhj@prone.ws JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 230698 :laerlingSAP!~laerlings@unaffiliated/laerlingsap JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 230708 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 230717 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 230726 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 230735 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 230744 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 230779 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ceprmekyjvaxvhhu JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 230790 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 230799 :shinh_!~i@129.EC0234U.cyberhome.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 230807 :aji!~alex@unaffiliated/aji JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 230817 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 230826 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 230835 :mniip!~mniip@freenode/staff/mniip JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 230857 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 230880 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-171-136.cdrr.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 230902 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 230924 :Cale!~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 230945 :diverger!~div@172.83.44.83 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 230972 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 230997 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 231007 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-bawgdlwqsseuynoq JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 231029 :xavo[m]!undersco1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-mrhemdhwynbtbmzu JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 237344 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-whkacrlzgwtokujm JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 237377 :xylochoron[m]!xylochoron@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ejtmkvvaetuatfrs JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 237402 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-234-164-48.compute-1.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 237410 :ocharles!sid30093@musicbrainz/user/ocharles JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 237418 :imode-ruby!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 237425 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 237442 :APic!apic@apic.name JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 237463 :mich181189!sid268336@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xchlnniznwjwexfe JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 237471 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 237478 :Soni!~quassel@unaffiliated/soniex2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 237495 :dnm_!sid401311@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iofdzlpooiztpuat JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 237512 :iczero!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 237531 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 237539 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 237556 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 237573 :nchambers!uplime@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 237591 :BWBellairs!~bwbellair@hellomouse/dev/bwbellairs JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 237599 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 237616 :rodgort!~rodgort@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 237634 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@sorunome.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 237642 :noomy!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 237658 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 237675 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 237693 :glowcoil!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ljsrjcnfjtfrpofz JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 237710 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 237730 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 237737 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-005-215-076.178.005.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 237745 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 237763 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 237771 :laerling!~lsf@unaffiliated/laerling JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 237790 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 237797 :Deewiant!~deewiant@de1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 237811 :LBPHacker!lbphacker@trigraph.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 244086 :stux!stux2@grid9.quadspeedi.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 244115 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uokwdxpbfutetegr JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 244123 :^[_!sid43445@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/sixth/zgrep JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 244129 :dog_star!sid310875@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bkmsprfnywrkykzt JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 244135 :shig!~davidb@inara.oztechninja.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 244142 :catern!~catern@catern.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 244148 :howlands_!gilesgate@sdf-eu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 244155 :ornxka!~ornxka@unaffiliated/ornx JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 244161 :haavard!root@haavard.me JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 244168 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-146-112-4.natnow.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 244174 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-b0486e-15.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 244180 :relrod!~relrod@redhat/relrod JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 244187 :ineiros!ineiros@kapsi.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 244203 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 244211 :lifthrasiir_!~lifthrasi@ec2-52-79-98-81.ap-northeast-2.compute.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 244230 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 244264 :lynn_!sid154965@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qhrpzgxcylkpquuh JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 244271 :ProofTechnique!sid79547@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ghyzuqdvajivhjps JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 244279 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-zjoagjvsfoxwfeot JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 244286 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 244293 :diginet!~diginet@107.170.146.29 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 244300 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 244307 :vertrex!~vertrex@unaffiliated/vertrex JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 244324 :jix!~jix@static.71.5.69.159.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 244345 :interruptinuse!~interrupt@girl.mrtheplague.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 244353 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 244360 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 244367 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 244374 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 244381 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 244388 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 244406 :myndzi!myndzi@tetrisguide.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 244427 :sparr!~sparr@pdpc/supporter/active/sparr JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 244434 :gitlogger!~gitlogger@206.ip-51-91-102.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 244441 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 244460 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780262 244467 :Banana51!~user@unaffiliated/banana51 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585780378 242044 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1585780483 778598 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1585780890 238388 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Qwote14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70576&oldid=70486 5* 03Binyamin 5* (+1202) 10 > 1585780911 530635 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Qwote14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70577&oldid=70576 5* 03Binyamin 5* (-486) 10 < 1585781063 210505 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds > 1585784676 685853 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07List of ideas14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70578&oldid=70046 5* 03Binyamin 5* (+76) 10/* Joke/Silly Ideas */ < 1585785381 834982 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ceprmekyjvaxvhhu QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1585792764 607660 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1585792791 287202 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1585793191 277039 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1585793530 862923 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1585793774 279205 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric > 1585794939 516757 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FiM++14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70579&oldid=69638 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+16) 10/* Collatz sequence */ 5yr old pointed out a logic bug in my code. Fixed. < 1585795007 804836 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1585795125 111420 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am reading the SIGBOVIK proceedings. There is something about chess, giving an example with Fischer Random where the king is moving to the cell where the rook currently occupies, but nevertheless you are required to move the king first and then move the rook. One way I think might be to pick up the king with some fingers and use other fingers on the same hand to move the rook. < 1585795240 940138 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, there are two articles by tom7 this year < 1585795459 640547 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I'm wrong < 1585795463 136435 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are three < 1585795514 496621 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or who the heck knows really < 1585798849 329053 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Quit: leaving > 1585799101 458833 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Hommecitrons 5* 10New user account > 1585799244 323819 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70580&oldid=70575 5* 03Hommecitrons 5* (+129) 10/* Introductions */ > 1585799514 144880 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70581&oldid=69580 5* 03Hommecitrons 5* (+50) 10 < 1585801040 905352 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1585801141 816833 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1585801317 243381 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1585801772 778417 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1585801993 765539 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1585804114 363410 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1585804242 684991 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1585804407 425565 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-171-136.cdrr.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1585804718 50944 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1585804737 961384 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1585805435 963943 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1585805459 282871 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1585805706 761512 :xelxebar_!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1585805855 6322 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe QUIT :Quit: Hugs~ <3 < 1585805980 874079 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe JOIN :#esoteric < 1585806174 281681 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1585806516 623642 :xelxebar_!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in < 1585806519 297956 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1585806553 771132 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.238.3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585810117 124502 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric > 1585811774 429482 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Babalang14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=70582 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+3268) 10Begin writing the article. Will keep stub status until I am finished. > 1585811856 128855 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Babalang14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=70583 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+176) 10Created page with "Hello. This article is incomplete. I will continue writing to it once I have free time. ~~~~" < 1585812559 116167 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-whkacrlzgwtokujm QUIT :Quit: killed < 1585812576 458939 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-bawgdlwqsseuynoq QUIT :Quit: killed < 1585812585 262231 :xylochoron[m]!xylochoron@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ejtmkvvaetuatfrs QUIT :Quit: killed < 1585812585 312874 :xavo[m]!undersco1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-mrhemdhwynbtbmzu QUIT :Quit: killed < 1585813027 95083 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1585814365 68036 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pvxrdejidcwtsmyd JOIN :#esoteric < 1585815644 687386 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1585815747 330144 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1585815886 510271 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585816231 187594 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1585816361 924784 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1585816688 192382 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-elqbgkwbobftpxig JOIN :#esoteric < 1585816688 298779 :xavo[m]!undersco1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-gyzfddehbbixljam JOIN :#esoteric < 1585816688 432096 :xylochoron[m]!xylochoron@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-mgheajgtuotwvyks JOIN :#esoteric > 1585816907 974792 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Javaveryhot 5* 10New user account < 1585818136 958675 :iczero!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero QUIT :Excess Flood < 1585818171 231411 :iczero!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero JOIN :#esoteric < 1585819569 295221 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1585819631 625578 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric > 1585820947 839869 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70584&oldid=70580 5* 03Javaveryhot 5* (+121) 10 > 1585820976 609778 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Kentarg14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=70585 5* 03Javaveryhot 5* (+1412) 10Created page with "Kentarg is a programming language created by ~~~. The project was started at 6 February 2020 and released (with version 0.0.0) at 14 February 2020. Kentarg program files use..." < 1585821220 774777 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1585821596 47809 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds > 1585822866 590530 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Kentarg14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70586&oldid=70585 5* 03Javaveryhot 5* (+1805) 10 < 1585823315 868900 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric > 1585823508 553551 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Int**14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70587&oldid=70122 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+22) 10 > 1585823905 525764 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Self-modifying Turing machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70588&oldid=70425 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+642) 10Explain an edge case in details < 1585824616 852692 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: rebooting < 1585825066 74951 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1585825165 731366 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Quit: leaving > 1585825844 938883 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Halt halt halt14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=70589 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+2106) 10+[[Halt halt halt]] > 1585825849 369390 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70590&oldid=70556 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+21) 10+[[Halt halt halt]] > 1585825852 776190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Hakerh40014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70591&oldid=70505 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+21) 10+[[Halt halt halt]] > 1585826014 504642 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Halt halt halt14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70592&oldid=70589 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (-38) 10 > 1585826275 40583 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Halt halt halt14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70593&oldid=70592 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+44) 10 < 1585828681 170922 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Quit: reboot < 1585829773 548692 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1585831532 517012 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:743f:b65:f450:eb4e JOIN :#esoteric < 1585832137 867882 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qgbjcmphlzxnvlvq JOIN :#esoteric < 1585832632 96115 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1585834208 397239 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Halt halt halt... Let's wait for an example program that exercises all 3 values (assuming ZFC is consistent). < 1585834926 775190 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585835549 628396 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric > 1585837430 642757 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Duck Duck Goose14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70594&oldid=42970 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (-963) 10fixed examples, added categories < 1585837669 799076 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1585839656 64547 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:743f:b65:f450:eb4e QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1585839996 979631 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1585840110 755029 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric > 1585841246 576856 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Flurry14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70595&oldid=70559 5* 03Yul3n 5* (+209) 10 > 1585841834 684998 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Cthulhu14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70596&oldid=66590 5* 03Yul3n 5* (+128) 10 < 1585846169 744829 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, in Magic: the Gathering now they made up cards that you can cast from your sideboard if certain conditions are met. < 1585847251 142559 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh jesus they're making permanents made of multiple cards (like B.F.M.s or SNOT or meld or host) in black-bordered magic. in common. this will be a rules nightmare. < 1585847353 285069 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also wtf is a Hero. it used to be a defunct creature type, but apparently there's now a card type, outside of standard-legal expansions, named the same. < 1585847388 834864 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really can't keep up with all this nonsense that wizards creates these days < 1585847417 740323 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know all of the rules yet, but I am guessing it is similar to meld for the purpose of zone changes, although I don't know what happens to the spell once a permanent is mutated, since the permanent is an object that already existed, presumably it remains the same one, just with different characteristics. < 1585847724 890965 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the heck would they name something that goes onto the type line the same as a defunct creature type? < 1585847755 299388 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's for the same purpose, like Legendary named of Legend I guess < 1585847755 801930 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. I don't know what it means either, if anything. < 1585847850 807539 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like all of the rules of Magic: the Gathering myself, such as rule 202.3b looks messy to me, and the rules prohibiting creatures from being attached to anything is also messy to me. < 1585847898 553345 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, instead of [ability] counters, I would have made the rules [ability] tokens: An [ability] token is a Aura enchantment token with "enchant permanent" and "enchanted permanent has [ability]".) < 1585847907 859536 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's even worse than making an "Avatar" creature type < 1585847918 958182 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because "Avatar" at least wasn't in the type line < 1585847942 637716 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you think about [ability] counters? < 1585848041 476210 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm less afraid of those. they won't cause rules problems. they may cause playability problems, but wizards is aggressively checking for those, at least in standard, so it probably won't happen. < 1585848067 983662 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's certainly better than the workarounds like static abilities that apply "as long as" a permanent has a certain type of counter < 1585848114 33815 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it won't have rules problems, and avoids workarounds like that too. < 1585848133 457897 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although as I said I would have done it as tokens instead < 1585848153 883464 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the ones that just modify characteristic forever without any marker like a counter, like Balduvian Frostwaker < 1585848165 710144 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to those, an ability counter is a cleaner solution < 1585848187 814741 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously they have to be careful balancing them so that they don't cause playability problems in formats with larger cardpool < 1585848195 734862 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although there are disadvantages to using tokens too, such as status. < 1585848199 61899 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Aquitect's Will < 1585848200 990921 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aquitect's Will \ U \ Tribal Sorcery -- Merfolk \ Put a flood counter on target land. That land is an Island in addition to its other types for as long as it has a flood counter on it. If you control a Merfolk, draw a card. \ LRW-C, DDT-C < 1585848208 469883 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ this is an example for the "as long as it has a flood counter" thing < 1585848336 660512 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also the solution where they print tokens and do abilities like "create an aura enchantment token with shroud and enchant creature and 'enchanted creature has flying' attached to target creature", but it gets long and ugly to print such abilities, so it's not useful when they want to do in large numbers < 1585848480 917763 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, +X/+X counter tech has existed forever in Magic, so it's technology that's proven to work if they don't overuse it < 1585848567 780005 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wonder if there's any clash with existing names of counters that happen to be ability words < 1585848588 650656 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I wondered about that too. < 1585848750 1599 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rules manager probably knew for a decade that ability counters may come one day, but would he have the authority to veto the *name* of a keyword ability on that ground? < 1585849454 856396 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1585849486 102685 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another idea I thought of is for ability counters to use the words "[ability] ability counter". < 1585849774 120286 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, perhaps they will have to add a new sub-layer for ability counters. < 1585850814 14931 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Soul Echo < 1585850814 946816 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soul Echo \ XWW \ Enchantment \ Soul Echo enters the battlefield with X echo counters on it. \ You don't lose the game for having 0 or less life. \ At the beginning of your upkeep, sacrifice Soul Echo if there are no echo counters on it. Otherwise, target opponent may choose that for each 1 damage that would be dealt to you until your next upkeep, you remove an echo counter from Soul Echo instead. \ MI-R < 1585850902 656921 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ^ echo counter. echo used to be a keyword ability without a parameter. < 1585851054 276446 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine suddenly having to pay WW for each counter on Soul Echo each turn < 1585851077 516141 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Echo costs only apply once. < 1585851091 39277 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, OK, so there is one (although now that keyword ability has a parameter, so it is perhaps not as bad as the other one). < 1585851127 200931 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh true, you'd only pay it one turn < 1585851150 346638 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like I said, echo didn't use to have a parameter. even the Comp rules mentions that. < 1585851155 806308 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :see the printed text of Acridian < 1585851189 361254 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I do know that. < 1585851302 689312 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, at least in this case, at worst they have to oracle patch it to use echo - {0} counters, or better, some other kind of named counters < 1585851347 996749 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1585851384 392582 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1585851415 40013 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, I said it is messy due to things like this, and would prefer explicitly calling them "ability counters" in the text. The effect is the same, although it is more clearly what it means and provides better forward and backward compatibility. < 1585851554 159136 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah, there are fuse counters, but they'd be really hard, probably impossible, to get them to a situation where it's ambiguous < 1585851560 392034 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Goblin Bomb < 1585851561 489552 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goblin Bomb \ 1R \ Enchantment \ At the beginning of your upkeep, you may flip a coin. If you win the flip, put a fuse counter on Goblin Bomb. If you lose the flip, remove a fuse counter from Goblin Bomb. \ Remove five fuse counters from Goblin Bomb, Sacrifice Goblin Bomb: Goblin Bomb deals 20 damage to target player or planeswalker. \ WL-R \ \ Goblin Bombardment \ 1R \ Enchantment \ Sacrifice a creature: Goblin Bombardment deals 1 damage to < 1585851574 96027 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mentioned on multiple old cards > 1585851586 42034 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minimal operation language14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70597&oldid=70574 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1124) 10 < 1585851603 669143 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other possibility, other than explicitly saying they are ability counters in the effect that adds them, is to extend rule 111.10 similar to how I mentioned before. < 1585851634 425589 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although this results in a different effect than the other one.) < 1585851664 492233 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they could also just explicitly list which named counters are ability counters < 1585851781 621976 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, although I don't like that much either, since it interferes with unofficial cards. > 1585852450 277275 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minimal operation language14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70598&oldid=70597 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+162) 10/* Operators */ > 1585852493 99128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minimal operation language14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70599&oldid=70598 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+18) 10/* Syntax */ > 1585852528 704091 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minimal operation language14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70600&oldid=70599 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+29) 10/* Syntax */ < 1585855346 283637 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-171-136.cdrr.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1585855381 778228 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.238.3 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1585855581 326745 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1585856076 424239 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07KeyVM14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70601&oldid=68927 5* 03Void 5* (+33) 10/* General properties */ < 1585856850 468130 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: leaving > 1585859023 313279 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Usernametaken 5* 10New user account > 1585859439 650251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70602&oldid=70584 5* 03Usernametaken 5* (+430) 10/* Introductions */ > 1585859498 476216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Befunge14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70603&oldid=65759 5* 03Usernametaken 5* (+1) 10/* Hello, world! (without string reversion) */ > 1585859632 645579 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Befunge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70604&oldid=70603 5* 03Usernametaken 5* (+0) 10/* Simple game ("Less or More") */ < 1585859881 76283 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1585861476 966973 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1585862839 841985 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585862935 630079 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1585862935 721591 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1585864627 375668 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1585864722 903707 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1585864833 969121 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1585867739 351651 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I ended up just using id (\ 1) instead of bottom inside simpE, which has the exact same behaviour < 1585868354 195847 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1585869850 983809 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1585870043 320984 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1585870413 862001 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:482c:2d8:8a63:3a20 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585870664 869456 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:482c:2d8:8a63:3a20 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1585870680 774337 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1585871689 813343 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought some idea of ais523's card game. Possibly the overspill for Reconnaissance resource can be moving cards from the bottom of your spent pile to the bottom of your regular pile. < 1585875189 67233 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com QUIT :Changing host < 1585875189 67378 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister JOIN :#esoteric < 1585875823 98273 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone knows that naming something "final version" is almost always a bad idea, because there will be a later vesrion. and "modern" or "contemporary" is also almost always a bad idea, because your book title WILL read stupid a few decades from now. but I'm starting to suspect that naming technological things "mini" or "micro" or "nano" or "tiny" or "compact" is also a bad idea, because something < 1585875829 104329 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :smaller will come along later and your name will sound silly. just look at "compact flash cards" and "compact disks" < 1585876111 875450 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: right, I should have looked on the scryfall wiki first: https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Hero_(card_type) < 1585876323 818423 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:482c:2d8:8a63:3a20 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585876573 73652 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, so that is what it is. (It still isn't quite so clear how it is working. Vanguards aren't permanents, but heroes presumably would have to be, in order for their functions to work.) < 1585876586 859523 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:482c:2d8:8a63:3a20 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1585876815 292888 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:d5b9:395c:ba15:dd58 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585877139 342055 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:d5b9:395c:ba15:dd58 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1585877262 305651 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:893c:e941:9d55:3676 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585877358 818223 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:bdbc:6b:2615:748b JOIN :#esoteric < 1585877557 296359 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:893c:e941:9d55:3676 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1585877615 822171 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:bdbc:6b:2615:748b QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1585878316 502866 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qgbjcmphlzxnvlvq QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1585879266 968773 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@82.27.195.88 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585879268 937169 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@82.27.195.88 QUIT :Changing host < 1585879268 937216 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1585879827 983488 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1585883252 914090 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1585883577 259744 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1585883837 300557 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:bdbc:6b:2615:748b JOIN :#esoteric < 1585884131 334365 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:bdbc:6b:2615:748b QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1585887148 246377 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1585889617 728926 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION yawns, waves for the first time in some time < 1585890953 585294 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yawn-wave < 1585891004 190258 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :somebody should try that in a stadion... get a column to yawn simultaneously, see how infectious yawns really are) < 1585891299 48567 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1585891540 784018 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lol < 1585892022 401158 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1585892212 849529 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585892965 764427 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1585893175 751259 :xelxebar_!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1585895286 235279 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-171-136.cdrr.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1585896277 891045 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1585896487 967872 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1585897178 828418 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9854:db82:6264:8d67 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585897315 296387 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1585897357 832653 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9458:c55f:c0ea:ca82 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585897382 757670 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1585897565 827421 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9854:db82:6264:8d67 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds > 1585898362 240921 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Flurry14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70605&oldid=70558 5* 03Challenger5 5* (-164) 10 < 1585898894 93302 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1585899252 306028 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator QUIT :Quit: Blame iczero something happened < 1585899272 134723 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator JOIN :#esoteric < 1585899302 201523 :noomy!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1585899322 858618 :wlp1s1!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero JOIN :#esoteric < 1585899346 845030 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric < 1585899383 153310 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony NICK :noomy < 1585899385 952584 :iczero!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1585900063 755241 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.238.3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585900621 55806 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1585901478 894459 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.238.3 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1585901499 434559 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.238.3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585906040 481570 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585906119 981116 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1585906168 883985 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1585906169 251348 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1585906304 825309 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1585906720 204171 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585908838 55356 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.233.148 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585908981 375732 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.238.3 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1585910587 138446 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rsxvgswbtvvujhju JOIN :#esoteric < 1585912150 921434 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1585912331 969151 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1585914045 694747 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1585914233 983403 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.239.187 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585914267 772506 :arseniiv__!~arseniiv@136.169.239.247 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585914337 968894 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.233.148 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1585914507 981024 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.239.187 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1585914728 841124 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1585914940 909489 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1585915759 821812 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1585918348 273083 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rsxvgswbtvvujhju QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1585918808 775814 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric > 1585919593 94742 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:2KWLang14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=70606 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+232) 10Created page with "Are the Unicode double quotes ( as opposed to "") part of the syntax, or are they unintentional? ~~~~" < 1585920793 770691 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1585921575 522081 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1585921770 775875 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1585922495 355741 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qjelmcktecyfwybr JOIN :#esoteric > 1585925537 474658 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Nomennominatur 5* 10New user account > 1585925671 952911 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70607&oldid=70602 5* 03Nomennominatur 5* (+113) 10 > 1585925713 21484 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70608&oldid=70607 5* 03Nomennominatur 5* (+0) 10 < 1585927037 489716 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1585927042 66568 :hakatashi1!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585927046 809749 :diverger!~div@172.83.44.83 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1585927079 835774 :diverger!~div@172.83.44.83 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585928267 836561 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9458:c55f:c0ea:ca82 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1585928639 68295 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:d936:ceb9:7e8:f6dd JOIN :#esoteric < 1585931519 47925 :esowiki!~esowiki@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/esowiki JOIN :#esoteric < 1585934477 148268 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:d936:ceb9:7e8:f6dd PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i'm working on resolving the remaining TODOs in BB.txt < 1585934649 916467 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585935378 976989 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1585936562 979398 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1585936788 134283 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1585937579 414401 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-b0486e-15.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1585937769 65082 :arseniiv__!~arseniiv@136.169.239.247 NICK :arseniiv < 1585938283 832303 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1585940382 848572 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1585940603 236388 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-b0486e-15.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1585940881 87577 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For those interested in an update on the MTG deck using The Waterfall Model to get BB numbers while still not going infinite, our current bound is BB_16(120) < 1585940884 432662 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :where BB_1(x) is the normal busy beaver function and BB_2(x) is BB_1(x) nested instances of BB_1(x) < 1585941008 272664 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We still have a little room and are no longer restricted to 6 clocks (now over 100) < 1585941050 491773 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would be helpful would be knowing whether the Flooding variant is Turing complete or not. < 1585941640 975397 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :MTGBusyBeaver42: I wanted to ask, what is the defn of BB_k? < 1585941694 143847 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only say what BB_2 is and it"s not clear how to continue < 1585942208 851985 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also doesn't BB have two inputs, the nr of clocks and the bound on the matrix elements, and you vary only the latter? < 1585942249 386072 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bound on the matrix imput < 1585942287 938465 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BB_n+1(x) is BB_n(x) nested BB_n(x) times < 1585942370 484195 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you always have 120 clocks? what is the matrix elt bound at the start? < 1585942392 532895 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :once we have more than 6 clocks we can implement a UTM where the simulated TM is bound by the input < 1585942424 424462 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean it might not matter, you get a number that's larger than I can imagine < 1585942448 925398 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we max out our clocks at half the number of creature types < 1585942501 425230 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 120 constant is the number of large life gains we can get in the setup < 1585942567 427047 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is mostly from the limits of the opponent's deck size < 1585942697 857355 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have them draw 53 cards and discard 60 for 113 just from their deck < 1585942849 967940 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you get the output value from the waterclock machine? < 1585942927 533221 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we make mana via Mana echoes and turn that into storm for Thousand Year Storm < 1585942994 195334 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And eventually run out of attack steps so we have the last one trample over and kill them < 1585943131 934113 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what value does that read from the abstract machine? it's just that 120 sounds too small and I want to see this can even start to grow > 1585943181 183974 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70609&oldid=70590 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+33) 10/* M */ < 1585943231 311968 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-171-136.cdrr.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1585943404 648263 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well theres a bit of rounding being lost in the bound. We get a few iterations just using our starting life total, and we can easily make our starting matrix for the first computation have values far more than 10^^^^10 < 1585943491 118038 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was what ais theorized was required to get BB numbers with the 6 waterclock version < 1585944004 852174 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1585944110 541079 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not sure exactly how big we can get the first computation, most of the tiers we get for the BB function also apply to our pre BB setup to get up to 10->10->16, but it doesn't show in the overall estimation) < 1585944148 354394 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qjelmcktecyfwybr QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1585944196 727339 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ADDI14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70610&oldid=65119 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+7730) 10copied operator tables < 1585944331 533662 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, iterating BB_n BB_n times to get BB_{n+1} is crazy < 1585944338 524863 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so our first computation would last on the order of BB(x) ticks, and we's get BB(x) colorless mana, which becomes BB(x) storm, and then BB(x) extra combat steps at the cost of a red mana < 1585944339 692818 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that will result in even larger numbers than I can imagine < 1585944348 801550 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you do BB_16 < 1585944376 733775 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds crazy big, unless you messed something up and it just doesn't work and the deck can just deal 500 damage or something < 1585944428 556859 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :more likely is we have missed an infinite and the deck is disqualified :( > 1585944448 893949 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minimal operation language14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70611&oldid=70600 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+11) 10/* Syntax */ < 1585944537 198602 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that too < 1585944556 323003 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :BB(BB(10^^^^10)) is already much larger than any number that I can imagine < 1585944563 624503 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :very likely even BB(10^^^^10) is < 1585944754 360537 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :even BB(1919) is beyond ZFC set theory < 1585944911 279969 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that someone has explicitly made a 2 symbol, 1919 state Turing Machine that halts IFF ZFC is inconsistent. < 1585944950 151088 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :MTGBusyBeaver42: yes, but that's for the turing machine BB, not for the waterclock BB < 1585944959 335312 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for waterclocks, 1919 is probably not enough < 1585944984 256966 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :10^^^^10 is way more than enough with a few dozen clocks < 1585945024 38110 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, but they still grow at an uncomputable rate < 1585945031 323764 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, that particular 1919 state machine probalby does not halt < 1585945034 396474 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't really help you < 1585945072 791139 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rate, sure, I was just afraid that if you start form 120, then you get something silly like BB(120) = 1, and you can't even start to increase your numbers < 1585945085 972415 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I hope you checked that that's not the case with your construction < 1585945165 790104 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no we can easily grow faster, consider the examples on the tutorial http://nethack4.org/esolangs/waterfall/ < 1585945183 389423 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, beaver is particularly thematic for a waterclock machine, because they build dams < 1585945205 120682 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it should be like "busy ant" for a turing machine, and "busy beaver" for waterclock < 1585945242 361612 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of the halting examples take more than their maximum value to halt < 1585945340 654109 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, the name and theme of TWM is particularly suited to this challenge < 1585945438 423789 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it would be "busy bee" for a machine with a RAM, and "busy bird" for something based on combinator calculus or lambda calculus < 1585945510 914263 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: do you call it busy bird function? < 1585945522 8732 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the binary lambda calculus one that is < 1585945655 294458 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:d936:ceb9:7e8:f6dd PRIVMSG #esoteric :lno; i just call it BB_lambda < 1585945693 360996 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:d936:ceb9:7e8:f6dd PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you can see at https://mathoverflow.net/questions/353514/whats-the-smallest-lambda-calculus-term-not-known-to-have-a-normal-form < 1585945768 977366 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:d936:ceb9:7e8:f6dd PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you define one for combinators it's gonna grow slower < 1585946338 376142 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcekkuegnxviwrtt JOIN :#esoteric < 1585946809 686676 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:d936:ceb9:7e8:f6dd PRIVMSG #esoteric :BB.txt updated in repo < 1585947757 785567 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.239.247 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1585948661 851550 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can division by zero errors be caught in Turbo Pascal? < 1585948898 455073 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: division of what type? < 1585948948 812611 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Integer division. < 1585949007 344033 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but 16-bit or 32-bit? because 16-bit is a cpu built in instruction, but 32-bit need not be if you're compiling for 286. also, for what target? DOS or Win16? < 1585949040 897549 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for DOS and 16-bit, you can probably just override the interrupt handler, as long as you restore the original handler when your program exits < 1585949048 656577 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sixteen bits. Target is DOS. < 1585949072 869697 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then probably override the interrupt handler. < 1585949105 929035 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :turbo pascal has a well-defined register use ABI so you can interface it with machine code < 1585949237 423689 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585949374 385152 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1585949407 261433 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1585949599 102183 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know if Turbo Pascal has a IF expression (like C has the ?: expression)? < 1585949624 473510 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't think it has one, but you'll have to check the help < 1585949649 711294 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: do you need a lazy one? < 1585949661 532962 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean a shortcut one < 1585949693 160007 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1585949717 778261 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you need a proper if statement, but I'm not sure < 1585949720 748361 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course I can do without, although it would be helpful to have it if it does have.) < 1585949790 495767 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: could you use borland C++ instead? you can even link compilation units among them together if you write C prototypes of the pascal functions, and compile exported C functions with the pascal calling convention < 1585949810 307883 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it even has a slightly better optimizer < 1585949828 995814 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a comparably good library that comes with them < 1585949846 686137 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though really ancient, confusing if you are used to modern C or modern C++ < 1585949866 77130 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it is a good reason to change everything to C just due to such an operator, since a IF expression isn't really needed < 1585949873 908891 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, be REALLY careful with code that uses the "long long" type, because the borland compiler believes that's just a strange spelling of "long" and accepts it without warning and gives you a 32-bit integer < 1585949939 743914 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sure, that alone isn't a good reason to change < 1585950032 672741 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the pascal compiler is at least small. I could put turbo.exe (the GUI) and the few files it needs (but not the command-line compiler) to my compressed boot floppy with enough space for other programs, that's impossible for the borland C compiler with just a single 1.44 MB floppy < 1585950109 809076 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then you can probably afford multiple floppies, or a hard disk < 1585950131 223905 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I am storing the files on the hard disk < 1585950152 207092 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :termbot had both the pascal and the C compiler runnable from command line from its hard disk < 1585950160 916341 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also qbasic) < 1585950202 132077 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but qbasic is very hard to use, because its PRINT statement and error messages don't write to stdout/stderr) < 1585950252 885376 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt that C is the best programming language for real-mode PC programming, due to the memory segmentation. < 1585950273 996392 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: borland C has extensions to C for that < 1585950339 109906 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can declare pointers that point to specific program segments, dereference pointers to a specific segment, even have variables of type pointer to segment and dereference using those, or just have far or huge pointers < 1585950339 148042 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, OK. < 1585950361 323637 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC there's a special infix operator :> to combine a segment with an offset < 1585950385 87082 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :of cousre you may still want to write some or all of your program in assembly, simply because the compiler doesn't optimize too well < 1585950506 191240 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason I am using Pascal is because I am modifying a program that is already written in Pascal, anyways. < 1585950566 311136 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and do you want to compile it for DOS, as opposed to port it to a more modern linux pascal compiler? < 1585950626 557497 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I am compiling it for DOS. (I have no intention to port this program to other operating systems, although some other people are, either in Pascal or by rewriting it in C.) < 1585950657 114742 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is ZZT. Do you like ZZT? < 1585950682 346943 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, I don't follow these game engines much < 1585950958 807433 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have made many changes, including removing the editor (in order to save memory; but there are external editors that can be used instead), allowing pushing X to clear the message line during game play, making HOME and END keys work in popup text windows, displaying file modification times in the save game menu, getting rid of the configuration menu and help menu (to save both memory and time), etc < 1585951398 222609 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does DOSBOX implement EMS? < 1585951406 477370 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope so < 1585951513 868765 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if not, there are other emulators < 1585951929 929692 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: try to run the MEM command, that should at least tell if EMM is enabled in your current config < 1585952002 608533 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says 15168 Kb free expanded memory, so it looks like it is implemented (although I don't know if there are problems with the implementation). < 1585952310 48460 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another emulator is Zeta, which is sometimes used with ZZT, although Zeta does not implement EMS as far as I can tell (even though the author of Zeta has also written the code to allow ZZT to use EMS) < 1585952452 343153 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I used Dosbox very little. I just ran most of my DOS programs on a real MS-DOS in a machine emulated by Bochs < 1585952462 425145 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, after I stopped running native DOS that is < 1585952516 690775 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and DOS windows in Win16 < 1585952649 401813 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that's sort of orthogonal, I have ran Win16 in the Bochs virtual machine < 1585953127 41173 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is only one 16-bit Windows program I intend to run on my computer, which is Hero Mesh, so that I can test the behaviour to see that the behaviour of Free Hero Mesh in compatibility mode matches that of Hero Mesh. < 1585957283 809229 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1585957757 536259 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1585958335 926810 :xelxebar_!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1585958988 910174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585959013 662551 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi MTGBusyBeaver42 < 1585959076 247511 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry that I haven't been doing much on the M:tG busy beaver construction, I've been too busy playing Netrunner < 1585959084 517608 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which, sadly, is probably not Turing-complete; I have tried, of course) < 1585961296 404325 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Did you read my comment of the card game you wrote the rules for? (Also, maybe we can print cards for that game using TeXnicard, if you want to, I suppose) < 1585961307 748234 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have some other comments too, which I did not mention yet.) < 1585961422 373045 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I think some people on this IRC may be playing mahjong? To those people, I want to ask what rule variations do you use, e.g. do you use any red fives (and if so how many), and do you use kuitan ari or kuitan nashi? < 1585963062 432078 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what you thinking of the ability counters and other new rules of Magic: the Gathering cards? < 1585964176 744272 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I read your comment but didn't immediately have an opinion about it < 1585964183 228004 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have to remember how my game worked < 1585964222 815111 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think in order to make it into a proper game, you'd need to experiment with multiple versions of the rules until you found something that worked < 1585964239 272297 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a copy of your file in case you lost it. < 1585964241 416591 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are ability counters? < 1585964277 794264 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something new in Magic: the Gathering apparently, that permanents with an ability counter have the corresponding ability. < 1585964296 675101 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, Netrunner has had that for ages < 1585964301 11591 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I should think a new sublayer would be added to handle this, like there is a sublayer for power/toughness counters, presumably.) < 1585964306 950999 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're called "condition counters" and have abilities that affect the card they're on < 1585964314 801030 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, the only way to create them is that a card turns itself into the counter < 1585964326 555629 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this makes it easy to remember what the counter does, by seeing what card it is) < 1585964376 429118 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :An idea I had before they did this was ability tokens, which is just another kind of predefined tokens. < 1585964539 753427 :hakatashi1!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1585964562 53319 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585964651 704776 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No worries ais523, there have been a lot of changes to the deck recently packing in more optimizations < 1585964887 781449 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more worried about the judge calls about the new companions < 1585964905 528345 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least for the prerelease (if that even happens) < 1585964912 576578 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Netrunner? or in M:tG? < 1585964919 362197 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in MTG < 1585964944 820607 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right, I was confused because the new netrunner sets also have a mechanic called "companions" that are likely to cause judge calls < 1585964955 898310 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they lead to a lot of undos when playing online, and you can't really play not-online atm…) < 1585964987 373218 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well these companions have a deckbuilding restriction < 1585965010 723820 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm worries specifically about Lutri, the Spellchaser < 1585965026 793481 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Companion — Each nonland card in your starting deck has a different name. (If this card is your chosen companion, you may cast it once from outside the game.)" < 1585965078 210787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, "starting deck" implies that the restrictions can be met or unmet as a consequence of sideboarding < 1585965086 420646 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not only is that a complete freeroll in any izzet edh deck, its the only restriction that is easy to cheat on < 1585965088 389944 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not for that, you could probably just verify them in deck checks < 1585965109 984436 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and will require deck checks < 1585965183 613397 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, when I saw the Amonkhet spoilers I thought it'd require too many counter/token types to work < 1585965190 597713 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and still think I was right in retrospect < 1585965200 247146 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dislike keyword counters for a similar reason < 1585965231 641433 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dislike ability counters for a different reason, which is namespace collision < 1585965296 243840 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(One way to avoid this is to write "flying ability counter" or "banding ability counter" instead of "flying counter" or "banding counter". Although my idea previously was tokens instead anyways, which has its own advantages and disadvantages over this way.) < 1585965332 755837 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please don't give out Banding counters < 1585965355 729315 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"bands with other creatures with bands with other counters" < 1585965444 203633 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you monster < 1585965525 48917 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it demonstrates the namespace collision, though < 1585965530 704490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really hard to parse < 1585965555 820929 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, I think the M10 rules update ruined banding < 1585965564 894389 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when damage went on the stack, it was pretty easy to explain < 1585965599 347137 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the more recent version of the combat rules is less loopholey but much more complex, and banding seems more complex still because it effectively sets the combat rules back to the older way of doing things < 1585965632 187700 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, although I think some of that has to do with how damage prevention effects work; they work differently before and after Sixth Edition rules. < 1585965692 551588 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think banding is too confusing, although there is a problem with the "bands with other" rules, that I wrote some alternative rules for which I think is better and less confusing. < 1585965962 783344 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1585966001 569878 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Fifth Edition, all damage went on the stack, although it is a different stack than the stack in the modern game. You could also only play spells and abilities that target whatever is on the top of the stack. < 1585966273 468391 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think destruction events also used the stack; effects which regenerate a permanent targeted the destruction events.) < 1585967164 234430 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *sigh* no, < 1585967229 457560 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcekkuegnxviwrtt QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1585967322 237101 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, they already know how to handle the case when the card turns itself to an enchantment etc. but they want repeatable effects like on a planeswalker, and if they really want to do those, I admit that then counters that by themselves grant abilities is the cleanest solution. < 1585967360 454344 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mentioned Balduvian Frostvaker earlier, which has the same problem, it has a repeatable effect that modifies a permanent without a timeout, so you want to mark it somehow < 1585967373 742478 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you would mark it with a bead anyway, it's better if the rules treat it as a real counter < 1585967376 680445 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is probably correct. < 1585967427 1903 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it gets complicated because there are multiple different types of counters that your deck can give to any creature, but since they want to do such an effect in just this set, ability-granting counters are probably the best < 1585967603 982699 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, it will get ugly even in limited, because in just this one set Ikoria, you can get +1/+1, menace, deathtouch, trample, lifelink, flying, hexproof counters, just from commons and uncommons; < 1585967669 278906 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll likely slow down tournaments a lot, because you can no longer just look at a creature's art and number of counters to know its stats < 1585967685 553974 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you have rares, "Chevill, Bane of Monsters" puts bounty counters on any creature, other rares can add first strike, reach, vigilance counters (mind you, first strik counter probably apperas on an unrevealed uncommon too). < 1585967690 92529 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: exactly < 1585967703 253999 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(OK, sometimes people played auras, but not very often in constructed tournaments) < 1585967708 705554 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a very good gimmick for a set, but there's probably been worse gimmicks < 1585967735 562213 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and the decisions get hard too, because there are rares that by themself can grant many different type of counters < 1585967740 826587 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amonkhet had ridiculously complicated tokens < 1585967757 915335 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :back when I played, tokens were mostly just 1/1 creatures with no abilities, and you could represent them using beads < 1585967784 369549 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just took a piece of paper and tore it and wrote the characteristics of the token on the paper. < 1585967799 260464 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, admittedly that's just one card so far, "Vivien, Monster's Advocate" and it puts three types of counters < 1585967815 332170 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus "Crystalline Giant" which puts counters on itself only, and randomly < 1585967831 769564 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently "Crystalline Giant" is rare, not mythic < 1585967880 965979 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heck no, when I played, tokens were 1/1 green elves and 1/1 black-green elves and 1/1 green saprolings, and you had to distinguish them to know which ones get bonuses from the elf lords < 1585967921 405473 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have to follow which ones are tapped, which ones have summoning sickness, and I want to have a lot of them, because the elf decks only wins if it takes the opponent over by growing big < 1585967922 478227 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and for effects which say "non-black" or "protection from black" or otherwise cares about the colors < 1585967933 113517 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it isn't that trivial to keep up < 1585967970 184888 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: or just fear < 1585967984 246616 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fear isn't used in standard-legal sets nowadays < 1585967988 297914 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1585967996 917868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I think is a pity < 1585967997 404638 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, fear, too < 1585968001 234791 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we were talking about how magic was played back then < 1585968009 831372 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in old magic, some colors had advantages in the ways that other colors interacted with them < 1585968021 55115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. black creatures were harder to destroy, because many removal spells had a "nonblack" requirement < 1585968025 12256 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make up custom (unofficial) sets with fear and whatever else, if you want to do, I think. < 1585968047 329832 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nowadays those requirements aren't kept to consistently, so any benefits of a card have to be on the card itself < 1585968062 445056 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's clearer to new players to do it that way < 1585968239 140481 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right, with Terror and Befoul (target nonblack nonartifact creature). but then it got uglier because we started to run removal like Doom Blade (target nonblack), Deathmark (target green or white creature), Soul Reap (target nongreen creature), Eyeblight's Ending (target non-Elf creature), and more weird ones < 1585968248 810982 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as universal ones that just target any creature of course < 1585968288 236222 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those are just the black removal spells, the white ones are weird in different ways < 1585968298 837831 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the black ones and the white ones also have varying effects < 1585968324 918425 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it all gets complicated if you don't just run a red deck with simple lightning bolt style spells < 1585968365 456761 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least we lost "it can't be regenerated" clauses, which is a good thing < 1585968510 40408 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that regenerate should have been templated as "the next time this creature would die, regenerate it instead" < 1585968523 920684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with the word "regenerate" redefined to fit the new template) < 1585968529 948013 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be much clearer on how regeneration works < 1585968554 277343 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it might not fit on some of the more complicated cards though < 1585968555 968815 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I don't like about "regenerate" is how it means two different things (although related), so that would help. However, I think that text is too long. < 1585968729 216938 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :regenerate is probably bad because it is one of those complicated keywords that appeared on many cards since early sets and the rules had to maintain and its use was continued as a sort of tradition, similar to protection and banding < 1585968756 229693 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's possible that the early sets shouldn't have started that tradition, but it's sort of too late now, and it would be even uglier to have a different regenerate-like ability in parallel < 1585968850 328499 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :such an ability exists and is commonly used, "gains indestructible until end of turn" < 1585968854 161969 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is still better than the simpler abilities that existed in lots of different versions, like reach, shroud, hexproof, lifelink, deathtouch, and all those triggers that grant +X/+X when the creature is (a) attacking (b) blocking (c) blocked (d) unblocked (c) blocked but with multipilicity (f) blocking but with multiplicity etc < 1585968858 128051 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think regenerate, protection, and banding are all fine, although the wording for regeneration is bad due to how I mentioned. < 1585968905 954833 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: gains indestructible is somewhat more powerful though, because it doesn't remove the creature from combat < 1585968925 34408 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though that only matters if there's more than one damage assignment time I guess < 1585968928 40238 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such things < 1585968953 718177 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. One card I made up though is "Universal Salvation", which regenerates all permanents when it resolves. < 1585968969 801402 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have also written cards with "regenerate and then destroy this permanent". < 1585968979 169691 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name bear umbra < 1585968980 26877 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bear Umbra \ 2GG \ Enchantment -- Aura \ Enchant creature \ Enchanted creature gets +2/+2 and has "Whenever this creature attacks, untap all lands you control." \ Totem armor (If enchanted creature would be destroyed, instead remove all damage from it and destroy this Aura.) \ ROE-R < 1585968993 600135 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ this is how regenerate should have been done originally, but it's incompatible with our regenerate < 1585969058 443713 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :with "The next time this creature would be destroyed" for repeatable abilities of course < 1585969121 345484 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also lets you use {T} abilities of the creature after combat < 1585969132 660519 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I guess that one is somewhat similar to what ais suggests < 1585969155 97463 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "gains indestructible until end of turn" < 1585969177 777758 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might indeed be better < 1585969510 837953 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1585969635 418325 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the way regeneration works; it prevents from destruction only once rather than twice, and the regenerated permanent is tapped, too, which can be meaningful. < 1585969718 977232 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1585969847 727853 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think creatures should have to tap to block < 1585969884 267738 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be easier to track the gamestate, and also reduce the number of unintuitive interactions (like blocking with Prodigal Pyromancer and also tapping it, to damage the creature it's blocking twice) < 1585970091 122107 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not think it is unintuitive. < 1585970634 319518 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit > 1585971325 593992 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Baba is program14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70612&oldid=67809 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+953) 10Updated the interpreter to match the specification < 1585972122 664946 :MTGBusyBeaver42!4925260f@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1585974054 814079 :wlp1s1!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero NICK :[iczero] < 1585976156 321589 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-171-136.cdrr.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) > 1585978299 392130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Intramodular Transaction14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70613&oldid=66136 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+15) 10 < 1585978597 128676 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought making up a keyword ability for Magic: the Gathering where you can play the card from the ante zone (if you own it), at the cost of anteing two cards of your choice from your hand (in addition to any other applicable costs). > 1585978921 987696 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nope.14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70614&oldid=67426 5* 03Voltage2007 5* (-210) 10 < 1585982493 882469 :[iczero]!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero NICK :iczero > 1585987777 3457 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Nonameremote 5* 10New user account > 1585987828 497122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70615&oldid=70608 5* 03Nonameremote 5* (+109) 10 < 1585987852 813850 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1585988002 794953 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1585989082 3674 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1585989877 206880 :abrex!~abrex@151.44.71.74 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585989900 111592 :abrex!~abrex@151.44.71.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1585989939 900710 :abrex!~abrex@151.44.71.74 PART :#esoteric < 1585990170 900825 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:d936:ceb9:7e8:f6dd QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1585990213 5009 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:d936:ceb9:7e8:f6dd JOIN :#esoteric < 1585990468 95809 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.239.247 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585990707 112242 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585992507 33561 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1585992596 835149 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1585992596 915693 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1586001720 996 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pzazxjdiokxsaeur JOIN :#esoteric < 1586002423 13859 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@172.242.0.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586004230 372481 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:9935:9f86:5f53:ab6f JOIN :#esoteric < 1586004339 531018 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: I see you filled the gaps for BB(32) < 1586004474 563578 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:d936:ceb9:7e8:f6dd PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. so we can consider the 298 proven < 1586004493 758219 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:d936:ceb9:7e8:f6dd PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll work on 33 cases next < 1586004512 68792 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:d936:ceb9:7e8:f6dd PRIVMSG #esoteric :to see if 1812 is true max < 1586004573 429552 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:d936:ceb9:7e8:f6dd PRIVMSG #esoteric :computations for 34 seemm to blow up (using way obave 32GB) < 1586004726 404931 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I have not investigated why. < 1586004818 112786 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried lowering the depth and then it went through, but it didn't produce the right maximum either (leaving the (\1 1 1 1) (\\2 (2 1)) case to be done) < 1586005057 772328 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But tbh I was after low-hanging fruits only anyway... so 31 was a very sweet spot to stop in that regard. < 1586005925 161958 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:d936:ceb9:7e8:f6dd PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sure am curious to see if BB(34) > 5*2^16+6 though :) < 1586006247 147736 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:d936:ceb9:7e8:f6dd PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems unlikely... < 1586006254 966650 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :those busy birds < 1586006311 501120 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:d936:ceb9:7e8:f6dd PRIVMSG #esoteric :busy bodies :-) < 1586007889 558249 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can #esoteric recommend any youtube channels? < 1586008258 157252 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@172.242.0.73 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1586011611 153679 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Aeon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70616&oldid=68588 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+24) 10fixed link < 1586014148 801814 :diverger!~div@172.83.44.83 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586014928 207131 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-171-136.cdrr.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586014993 115629 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1586015200 392501 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:9935:9f86:5f53:ab6f QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1586015552 677138 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1586016235 391136 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1586016986 706991 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1586019010 641281 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1198 < 1586019016 135464 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1198: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas < 1586019045 175639 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiyuYC0D4-AO0AonCfMifPQ hr-Sinfonieorchester – Frankfurt Radio Symphony < 1586020178 462069 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pzazxjdiokxsaeur QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1586020820 701184 :kritixil1!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1586020963 700614 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586022343 700104 :kritixil1!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586022545 703062 :kritixil1!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric > 1586023160 616724 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nope.14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70617&oldid=70614 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (-11) 10The C Interpreter is not official. The C++, VB.Net, and brainfuck interpreters are. > 1586023187 524365 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nope.14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70618&oldid=70617 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+2) 10 < 1586024099 885076 :kritixil1!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586024554 356139 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586024568 276510 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1586024973 201677 :diverger!~div@titan.pathogen.is JOIN :#esoteric < 1586025031 138521 :diverger!~div@titan.pathogen.is QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1586025228 302287 :divergence!~div@38.95.110.68 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586025243 701642 :kritixil1!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric > 1586025736 726395 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minimal operation language14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70619&oldid=70611 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+6) 10/* Operators */ < 1586025737 396055 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recently someone posted to my NNTP about a chess variant called "corona chess", in which pieces only move 1 square distances, and must go home every 10th move. I think there are some problems with that, and it could be improved, though. > 1586025951 261373 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minimal operation language14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70620&oldid=70619 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-19) 10/* Gotos */ > 1586026000 353214 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minimal operation language14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70621&oldid=70620 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+52) 10/* Syntax */ > 1586026224 694075 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minimal operation language14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70622&oldid=70621 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+67) 10/* Operators */ < 1586026823 713954 :kritixil1!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586027523 257965 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1586027557 661488 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can set up a NNTP to discuss the card game that ais523 was making, if this is wanted (or ais523 can set it up on their own server, if they have one). < 1586027985 192310 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have some other ideas. One is flags, which is another statistic; a card might either have or not have a flag. I can also think of a possible overspill effect for reconnaissance; one possibility is moving cards from the bottom of your spent pile to the bottom of your regular pile (maybe I mentioned this already). I also have some ideas about layers (this is kind of similar to the layers in Magic: the Gathering, but without any time < 1586028093 11770 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The set of flags would be fixed by the rules, and which ones are defined is according to what would be needed. I am not so sure I like the rule about max health reductions, although I don't know what would be better. < 1586028320 73780 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The layers might be: [I] Deleting aspects. [II] Adding aspects. [III] Changing flags; if the same number of effects add and remove the same flag, the flag remains unchanged, otherwise whichever is more wins. [IV] Numerical effects (addition and subtraction of constant or calculated values, as described by the existing rules). [V] Adding manoeuvres. [VI] Deleting manoeuvres. < 1586028349 715077 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aspects can see the changes made by previous layers but not changes made by the current layer. Later layers override earlier layers. < 1586028571 11747 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If an effect alters a manoeuvre without adding or deleting it, it is treated as though it adds the altered one and deletes the old one, and is treated as a layer V effect for the purpose of determining what values it can see. This means that layer VI effects will see both the original and altered manoeuvre.) < 1586029689 124591 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another idea is to use some computer programming language to implement these rules, perhaps in Haskell. > 1586030549 441548 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03GigoG 5* 10New user account > 1586030917 521216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70623&oldid=70615 5* 03GigoG 5* (+165) 10/* Introductions */ > 1586030987 415107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70624&oldid=70623 5* 03GigoG 5* (+120) 10/* Introductions */ > 1586031056 475261 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70625&oldid=70624 5* 03GigoG 5* (-52) 10/* Introductions */ < 1586031598 701667 :kritixil1!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1586031617 645130 :kritixil1!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Client Quit < 1586031656 5941 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586031668 848331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I did have an idea about layers, although it might restrict the cards you could make too much < 1586031678 273001 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea was to design the cards so that the layer sequence never mattered > 1586031773 902768 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Magenta14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70626&oldid=30997 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+230) 10Now you too can read about bear food < 1586032041 56216 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I thought of adding the layers for the opposite reason, since the lack of timestamps makes some restrictions anyways, this layer system I suggest would add more flexibility; there are some things that are immutable anyways, with or without layers, and some effects which don't work anyways. I think the current system you have doesn't work at all with effects other than adjusting numerical values anyways. > 1586032440 269764 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Arbol14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70627&oldid=25343 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+78) 10/* External resources */ fixed link < 1586034095 490232 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1586035811 670551 :ap0calyps3!~gius@195.154.101.133 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586035876 869834 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586035888 15949 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586036043 153868 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1586036825 312940 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds > 1586037758 170252 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07AttoASM14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70628&oldid=33532 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (-104) 10/* External resources */ fixed link < 1586037836 438817 :ap0calyps3!~gius@195.154.101.133 PART :#esoteric < 1586042732 7385 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.239.247 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586043475 382927 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jbumsiampmrcryxz JOIN :#esoteric < 1586044323 749707 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1586045502 259298 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Az14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70629&oldid=40982 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title < 1586045953 728986 :iczero!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero NICK :mooooooooooooooo < 1586046016 218563 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1586046538 899460 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minimal operation language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70630&oldid=70622 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+128) 10Add interpreter > 1586046552 398890 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Minimal operation language14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=70631 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+320) 10/* Implementation */ < 1586047372 744603 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1586047836 730775 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se JOIN :#esoteric > 1586048619 403815 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BugSophia14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70632&oldid=30922 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+23) 10Languages category < 1586048713 850072 :divergence!~div@38.95.110.68 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1586048995 808748 :diverger!~div@185.246.211.104 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586049192 130405 :mooooooooooooooo!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero NICK :inb4 < 1586052357 212874 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1586052437 786277 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586052783 803673 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric > 1586056939 399295 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BDAMD14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70633&oldid=30443 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+25) 10/* External resources */ fixed link < 1586060854 742032 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jbumsiampmrcryxz QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1586061986 789996 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-171-136.cdrr.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586062296 834278 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1586062893 894715 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually ais523's card game design already has one thing that can be called a flag, which is the "General" flag. However, I have ideas of a few other flags, such as one flag that allows you to play other manoeuvres (except ones with the tactics track as source) before giving your opponent the chance to play, after playing to the tactics track. < 1586063087 263771 :inb4!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero NICK :iczero < 1586064951 730911 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn The password of the month is starving for attention. < 1586064954 215394 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relearned 'password': The password of the month is starving for attention. < 1586070855 403828 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1586074667 179101 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have any of Bohm's brainfuck programs? < 1586074774 880546 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586078318 794177 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1586079020 325446 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586079034 20189 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586079101 888949 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life > 1586080017 867845 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Babalang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70634&oldid=70582 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+2517) 10Detail the statement syntax. > 1586081419 216192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Babalang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70635&oldid=70634 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+49) 10Fix formatting > 1586081524 224096 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Babalang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70636&oldid=70635 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+21) 10Further fix formatting > 1586081584 776651 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Babalang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70637&oldid=70636 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+47) 10Wording < 1586082426 340225 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586082876 79021 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586083696 9224 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zxqxkcmqyabbgtrn JOIN :#esoteric < 1586084190 375189 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1586084856 977915 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:d936:ceb9:7e8:f6dd QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586085704 916462 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1586086343 525800 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Preposterous Programming14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70638&oldid=21367 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+22) 10Added concepts category < 1586087421 70410 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.239.247 JOIN :#esoteric > 1586087982 862827 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Preposterous Programming Language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70639&oldid=35673 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+342) 10Wording rewrite and categories > 1586088023 375106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Preposterous Programming14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70640&oldid=70638 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+34) 10Added Computational Models category > 1586088054 553182 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Preposterous Programming14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70641&oldid=70640 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+0) 10Sheepishly fix category capitalisation > 1586088279 742126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SimPL14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70642&oldid=70570 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+0) 10Fixed TC category > 1586093106 408023 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minimal operation language14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70643&oldid=70630 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+35) 10 < 1586094541 461998 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586097787 860615 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-171-136.cdrr.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1586101769 972431 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Manna5 5* 10New user account < 1586103017 988078 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586104008 40849 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1586104743 81923 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: many of the TODOs in 32 and 33 follow a pattern similar to the one for 29 < 1586104847 202613 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most general pattern that captures them is T = \x. K^j x^k (\y. y (x y ...)) < 1586104896 318690 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, I should add some parentheses as in T = \x. K^j (x^k (\y. y (x y ...))) < 1586104926 982264 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :where K is const function; I could also write \_ ... \_ instead of K^j < 1586104950 291015 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and k >= 1 of course, making T strict < 1586105071 632270 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we then set T_0 = T, and T_{i+1} = \y. y (T_i y ...), then we can show by induction that T T_i reduces to a tern with T T_{i+1} in head position < 1586105079 80089 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus proving divergence < 1586105174 565027 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we can try to define this pattern with a function isW2, and then replace isW a && isW b by isW a && (isW b || isW2 b) < 1586105182 388382 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which should eliminate a lot of TODOs < 1586106650 802815 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.239.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586106706 8041 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.239.247 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586106945 751030 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net PART :#esoteric < 1586107192 294880 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1586113124 626258 :ositoblanco!~osito@45.77.207.121 JOIN :#esoteric > 1586113731 509538 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BAM12814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70644&oldid=32357 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+42) 10/* External resources */ fixed link, added categories < 1586114142 895041 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know how to convert Fermat's Last Theorem into a Magic: the Gathering puzzle? > 1586114384 52534 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Duck Duck Goose14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70645&oldid=70594 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (-19) 10updated link > 1586114395 212441 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Cheers14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70646&oldid=70557 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (-10) 10updated link > 1586114406 694709 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Noodle Soup14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70647&oldid=70536 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (-15) 10updated link > 1586114417 616921 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07And14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70648&oldid=70535 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (-11) 10updated link < 1586114916 332654 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure! < 1586114920 271012 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1586115723 439867 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1586116021 824388 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.239.231 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds > 1586120634 121884 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Zerojl 5* 10New user account > 1586120770 41735 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70649&oldid=70625 5* 03Zerojl 5* (+58) 10 > 1586120907 113994 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70650&oldid=70649 5* 03Zerojl 5* (+54) 10 < 1586122190 36368 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586122339 327513 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1586122356 605631 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1586123149 7815 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds > 1586123333 360262 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70651&oldid=70650 5* 03JonoCode9374 5* (+21) 10 > 1586127725 590646 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Backpackr14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70652&oldid=54153 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title > 1586130512 268195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07List of quines14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70653&oldid=69331 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+72) 10/* Cheating Quines */ < 1586131107 364477 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the AI opponents in Pokemon Card GB2 has a "invincible deck", which would be good if the AI was not too stupid to handle it. < 1586131231 897788 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586131277 906557 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1586135035 292051 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1586135150 232822 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1586136249 271648 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1586136376 78930 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1586139062 977978 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric > 1586139607 762008 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Beeswax14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70654&oldid=50725 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title < 1586139708 28701 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds > 1586139991 801122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Binary lambda calculus14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70655&oldid=60332 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+436) 10Added IO description < 1586140076 641271 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zxqxkcmqyabbgtrn QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1586140628 43810 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Beta-Juliet and Portia14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70656&oldid=30458 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title < 1586140692 461618 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I loaded DOSBOX and then it was just black and wouldn't respond to any keys, nor to SIGINT, although SIGQUIT did terminate it. Di you know why? < 1586141278 449667 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, it seems to do that due to a recursive batch file. But I should think it should still try to allow to be interrupted in such a case? > 1586142177 537416 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* 10moved [[02Bfstack10]] to [[BFStack]]: fix capitalization < 1586146649 674467 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-171-136.cdrr.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1586146799 122460 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-171-136.cdrr.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586150222 787662 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586152760 73728 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.105.12.230.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1586152794 230304 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586156587 100553 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1586157404 797352 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.213.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586157462 396463 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1586157490 21785 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586157539 986494 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.105.12.230.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586160337 804671 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-68.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1586160438 6981 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1586161128 188852 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586164348 823559 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.235.61 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586164477 774756 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.213.53 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1586164632 777058 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.13.26.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1586164734 812407 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.235.61 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586164903 755054 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586165377 391371 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586165598 5471 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586165598 263067 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life > 1586166143 524168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Minimal operation language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70659&oldid=70631 5* 03A 5* (+181) 10 > 1586166311 647529 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Minimal operation language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70660&oldid=70659 5* 03A 5* (+5) 10 < 1586166519 756029 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1586170203 367868 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric > 1586172310 487271 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pikobrain14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=70661 5* 03Hanzlu 5* (+295) 10Created page with "Pikobrain is an operative system created by [[User:Hanzlu]], link: [https://github.com/Hanzlu/Pikobrain]. I guess you could call it esoteric. Files are accessed by numbers. I..." < 1586176592 81827 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.105.11.178.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1586176753 777129 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.13.26.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds > 1586178952 794350 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minimal operation language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70662&oldid=70643 5* 03A 5* (+91) 10/* Resources */ < 1586179550 561827 :laerling!~lsf@unaffiliated/laerling QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.7.3 - https://znc.in < 1586179550 815954 :laerlingSAP!~laerlings@unaffiliated/laerlingsap QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.7.3 - https://znc.in < 1586180356 8307 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jjuyeionifdfdsgu JOIN :#esoteric < 1586182060 161455 :laerlingsap!~lsf@unaffiliated/laerlingsap JOIN :#esoteric < 1586182084 571239 :laerlingsap!~lsf@unaffiliated/laerlingsap PART :#esoteric < 1586185021 727593 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny to see dutch article that "Beavers are on the rise" < 1586185093 969618 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as we're studying here just how fast the busy beaver function rises:) < 1586185433 927856 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586185461 770530 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1586185849 282895 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586185865 981314 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal > 1586187078 798743 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Binodu14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70663&oldid=27204 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title < 1586187888 180156 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586188013 47377 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well anyway there's https://catseye.tc/installation/Mascarpone running on a web page now < 1586188109 53504 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1586188362 781153 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next I'm going to try update Burro. Not just putting it on a web page, lots of stuff needs updating there. > 1586188748 365888 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BitZ14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70664&oldid=46435 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+28) 10/* External resources */ fixed link < 1586189577 252781 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds > 1586191078 420845 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Blo14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70665&oldid=46273 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title < 1586191224 758540 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 QUIT :Quit: A la prochaine. < 1586192051 285728 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net PART :#esoteric < 1586196321 147536 :dnm__!sid401311@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jitcmpemkqzepcqv JOIN :#esoteric < 1586196355 396164 :Lymee!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe JOIN :#esoteric < 1586196379 802322 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric < 1586196389 374451 :wlp1s1!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero JOIN :#esoteric < 1586196437 796170 :glowcoil_!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vxsogqhlxlhjgaib JOIN :#esoteric < 1586196485 231797 :dnm_!sid401311@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iofdzlpooiztpuat QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1586196485 270112 :glowcoil!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ljsrjcnfjtfrpofz QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1586196485 354621 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586196485 398068 :noomy!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586196485 398115 :iczero!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero QUIT :Excess Flood < 1586196485 462207 :stux!stux2@grid9.quadspeedi.net QUIT :Quit: Aloha! < 1586196485 624991 :dnm__!sid401311@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jitcmpemkqzepcqv NICK :dnm_ < 1586196486 860597 :Lymee!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe NICK :Lymia < 1586196487 287278 :glowcoil_!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vxsogqhlxlhjgaib NICK :glowcoil < 1586196558 805738 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1586196755 18797 :stux!stux2@grid9.quadspeedi.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586198024 972484 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1586198051 869300 :_________more!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586198099 532748 :_________more!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of the people on this channel, how many of you are on the unofficial esolangs discord? < 1586198425 688197 :_________more!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems weird to me that the communities operate almost entirely separately... < 1586198774 693886 :_________more!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1586198902 246010 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.105.11.178.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird indeed < 1586198905 215318 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sowing discord < 1586198906 225177 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.105.11.178.dynamic.ufanet.ru NICK :arseniiv < 1586198937 830111 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.11.178.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: and reaping disoutlet? < 1586199008 241943 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I have not thought about what the fruit would be. < 1586199072 846672 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine it's really just more discord. < 1586199623 278922 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.11.178.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to disagree < 1586200035 740877 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: no, you got it all wrong; it's easy to disagree, which is why discord is so common :P < 1586200081 720681 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? discord < 1586200087 166314 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :The unofficial Esolangs and code golf Discord server: https://discord.gg/3UXSK5p < 1586200091 965399 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote discord < 1586200093 170158 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1586200122 12033 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? irony < 1586200123 192150 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :irony? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1586200336 878906 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.11.178.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I disagree I got it all wrong < 1586200353 376209 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the spirit. < 1586200360 701022 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.11.178.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it was wrong before I got it :P < 1586200590 605726 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.11.178.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( irony is the kind of taste you feel when you are the fat lady of Limbourg and you taste a sample of iron ) < 1586200786 834077 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.11.178.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :( and furrow your brow ) < 1586201194 788199 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :irony is too serious to joke about < 1586201502 89599 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.214.218 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586201681 18021 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.11.178.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586202429 584248 :baidicoot!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586202783 814636 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.214.218 NICK :arseniiv < 1586202811 364213 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was tinkering with my router. I think no luck < 1586202858 98750 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the route of all evil < 1586203101 978128 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.214.218 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586203418 889133 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586203875 9108 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4124:c93f:1f3f:d19c JOIN :#esoteric > 1586204984 20884 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* 10moved [[02BotEngine10]] to [[Bot Engine]]: changed spacing to match repo > 1586205006 710147 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bot Engine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70668&oldid=70666 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+2) 10spacing < 1586205063 272305 :imode-ruby!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.6 < 1586205480 66971 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought one idea a keyword ability in Magic: the Gathering which allows playing the card from the ante zone if you ante cards from your hand, possibly also affecting the cost by doing so too, somehow. > 1586205859 87684 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Folders14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70669&oldid=61575 5* 03Rottytooth 5* (-661) 10Moved now-obsolete "concise folders" to "previous versions" < 1586205931 653065 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4124:c93f:1f3f:d19c PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: after implementing my W2, there are only 7 TODOs for 33 > 1586205957 579321 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Folders14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70670&oldid=70669 5* 03Rottytooth 5* (+97) 10details for "literal value" storage < 1586206079 347052 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4124:c93f:1f3f:d19c PRIVMSG #esoteric :see latest commit. let me know if you find a bug in the new rule > 1586206270 333671 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Folders14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70671&oldid=70670 5* 03Rottytooth 5* (+79) 10/* Expressions */ < 1586206276 846220 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4124:c93f:1f3f:d19c PRIVMSG #esoteric :or in its implementation > 1586206413 599384 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minimal operation language14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70672&oldid=70662 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+145) 10/* Syntax */ < 1586208733 35391 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586208815 265696 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1586208900 961333 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1586209235 682129 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony NICK :noomy > 1586209968 939014 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Folders14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70673&oldid=70671 5* 03Rottytooth 5* (+527) 10/* Instructions */ > 1586210507 260980 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BrainSpace 1.014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70674&oldid=14790 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+101) 10fixed links < 1586210652 519635 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4124:c93f:1f3f:d19c PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i suspect there is some simpler generalization of your W that includes my W2 < 1586211628 284651 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4124:c93f:1f3f:d19c PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about B^V ::= W^V W^V | W^V B^V | \v. B^V | B^V T ? < 1586212738 900977 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jjuyeionifdfdsgu QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1586212882 912076 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586214917 341867 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ztcjhqkktgaxjqjh JOIN :#esoteric > 1586217234 307557 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainflop14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70675&oldid=67836 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+18) 10fixed link < 1586218935 372494 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I like the idea of the ability counter which allows it to band with other creatures that also have that counter. (Tokens will not work so well in this case.) > 1586219657 751742 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Minimal operation language14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70676&oldid=70660 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+231) 10/* Clarification */ > 1586219767 173469 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minimal operation language14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70677&oldid=70672 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+31) 10/* Gotos */ I see why you were cobfused > 1586219870 370924 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Minimal operation language14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70678&oldid=70676 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+38) 10 > 1586220034 662299 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70679&oldid=70581 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+67) 10 > 1586220229 665081 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70680&oldid=70679 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+2) 10 < 1586220259 167020 :baidicoot!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds > 1586220432 773788 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brains14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70681&oldid=24741 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+39) 10fixed link > 1586220651 371430 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainstack14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70682&oldid=69681 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title < 1586222129 990391 :baidicoot!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586222338 989042 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ztcjhqkktgaxjqjh QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1586223494 166851 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Oatmealine 5* 10New user account < 1586224271 984917 :baidicoot!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586225586 425631 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1586225841 841714 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-elqbgkwbobftpxig PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, the axiom of choice sucks. < 1586225949 33478 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-elqbgkwbobftpxig PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, equating cardinality with size. < 1586226025 144915 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-elqbgkwbobftpxig PRIVMSG #esoteric :We all know that R has a greater cardinality than N. But I don't think we should define "bigger" as "having a greater cardinality", and so I don't think we should necessarily consider R to be *bigger* than N. < 1586227305 912438 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then how should you define "bigger"? < 1586227995 26050 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-elqbgkwbobftpxig PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think "bigger" necessarily needs to mean anything. < 1586228055 877865 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1586228062 943821 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-elqbgkwbobftpxig PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though of course, from a practical standpoint, it's *useful* to use the word "bigger" to mean "having a greater cardinality". < 1586228112 564972 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's what I thought. < 1586228179 806221 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-elqbgkwbobftpxig PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like it's useful to use the word "open" to mean "containing a neighborhood around every point". < 1586228694 378641 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1586229294 587205 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Folders14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70683&oldid=70673 5* 03Rottytooth 5* (+0) 10type correction > 1586231417 237639 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Softengy 5* 10New user account > 1586231759 877458 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70684&oldid=70651 5* 03Softengy 5* (+176) 10 < 1586233531 89620 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-171-136.cdrr.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) > 1586233920 142174 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Brainfuck algorithms14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70685&oldid=68845 5* 03Softengy 5* (+237) 10 > 1586234510 493399 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ELIP14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70686&oldid=24473 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+30) 10Added category > 1586234552 966263 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ELIP14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70687&oldid=70686 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+1) 10Fixed category > 1586234604 134426 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ELIP/Unlambda14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70688&oldid=24425 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+30) 10Added category > 1586235950 93573 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03DomJob 5* 10New user account > 1586237177 136298 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70689&oldid=70684 5* 03DomJob 5* (+249) 10 > 1586237184 634558 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck algorithms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70690&oldid=66763 5* 03DomJob 5* (+286) 10Added an algorithm for x or y > 1586238960 506453 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck algorithms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70691&oldid=70690 5* 03Int-e 5* (+45) 10/* z = x or y (boolean, logical) (wrapping) */ golfing > 1586239020 485457 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck algorithms14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70692&oldid=70691 5* 03Int-e 5* (-1) 10/* z = x or y (boolean, logical) (wrapping) */ match indentation < 1586239270 7970 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird page, that < 1586239310 15721 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :way too many different styles of commenting the code < 1586239409 131927 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there's a convention for temporary location introduced at the very top, that resolves some of the confusion. < 1586241076 888071 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4124:c93f:1f3f:d19c PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: the generalized rule gives no TODO's up to 31, 6 for 32 (of which 4 are handled by another rule), and only 3 for 33 < 1586241698 158279 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4124:c93f:1f3f:d19c PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only 15 on 34 < 1586241740 594479 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4124:c93f:1f3f:d19c PRIVMSG #esoteric :including the 5*2^16+6 one < 1586241783 18468 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4124:c93f:1f3f:d19c PRIVMSG #esoteric :largest non-TODO at 34 is 27380 < 1586243041 306778 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-171-136.cdrr.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586243738 735729 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4124:c93f:1f3f:d19c PRIVMSG #esoteric :starts swapping at 35 after finding 12 TODOs < 1586243818 794763 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1586243876 30035 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586244123 336943 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1586244236 554236 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: impressive. I wonder how far this can push the halting probability. < 1586244609 385669 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4124:c93f:1f3f:d19c PRIVMSG #esoteric :still focussing on BB for now, which is less arbitrary than blc halting probability (which depends on my IO conventions) < 1586244840 863015 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4124:c93f:1f3f:d19c PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you check the generalization in BB.txt ? < 1586245181 521926 :laerlingsap!~lsf@unaffiliated/laerlingsap JOIN :#esoteric < 1586245225 208390 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will get around to it. < 1586245331 973470 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am tinkering more on the AIT side of things though... I've decided I don't like the KP definition all that much, because programs can cheat too easily (looking ahead on the input) and once you enhance the universal machine to prevent that, it can actually compute the tail itself. < 1586245463 114758 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(KP is the definition where programs are supposed to produce pairs where o is the result and xs is the unconsumed input; my tinkering basically drops the xs part.) < 1586246082 112620 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera NICK :flawful < 1586246103 995133 :flawful!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera NICK :izalove < 1586246128 316122 :izalove!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera NICK :iza < 1586246157 417205 :iza!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera NICK :izakitten < 1586246163 528002 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4124:c93f:1f3f:d19c PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought programs couldn't cheat < 1586246190 754618 :izakitten!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera NICK :izabera < 1586246294 391902 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4124:c93f:1f3f:d19c PRIVMSG #esoteric :as they can never apply the z in U(p:z) < 1586246343 854921 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4124:c93f:1f3f:d19c PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is dropping the xs part different from using KS ? < 1586246364 273361 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4124:c93f:1f3f:d19c PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, no input end marker, ok < 1586246571 443477 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1586246608 172383 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, the end of input is determined by the last cons (if any) that is forced during evaluation evaluation to normal form. < 1586246681 997021 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's actually fairly pleasant to define (much in contrast to Chaitin's universal machine, which I find quite crazy) if you use open lists with nil = omega (ensuring the absence of a normal form when the tail is inspected by the program). < 1586246746 813664 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586246843 422310 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Chaitin's machine (from his thesis/book, chapter 6) evaluates all prefixes and suffixes together with the given program and takes the result of the first one to terminate... in order to ensure prefix-free programs. Which makes it awful to actually implement...) < 1586246861 385907 :laerlingsap!~lsf@unaffiliated/laerlingsap PART :#esoteric < 1586247017 160339 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, just the input, not the (lisp-ish) program itself. But that's bad enough, really. < 1586247048 804744 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586247089 807275 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1586247255 533539 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4124:c93f:1f3f:d19c PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, chaitin's construction is a horrible hack < 1586247369 467040 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I reread that chapter last month, for the first time in 10 years I guess, and I finally got what that machine is doing.) < 1586247509 205057 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i reread the jot spec last night and finally got it < 1586247514 380847 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, of course programs-with-inputs also define a Busy Beaver function. < 1586247541 237873 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :the SKI translation in the article is pretty clunky though, i'm interested in minimal translations < 1586247576 894528 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A Busy Beaver function for every flavor... oh well, that should not be a surprise; you have one for every model of computation that has a quantifiable program size.) < 1586247623 446853 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :just jot it down < 1586247840 171 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's somewhat interesting that leading 1s in a program are pointless < 1586247883 356677 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really like Iota/Jot, it's sacrificing too much for perceived minimality (compared to SK combinatory logic) < 1586247907 775452 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean jot is just meant to be a goedel numbering < 1586247985 984174 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also sacrificing too much (for my taste) if your goal is to assign a program to every bit string. < 1586247990 615715 :laerling!~lsf@unaffiliated/laerling JOIN :#esoteric < 1586247993 885579 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1586248021 149295 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :other goedel numberings are even uglier < 1586248180 148101 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so, what's the word you used, clunky. < 1586248398 935865 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :the injection of SKI into jot is, the mapping from jot into the lambda calculus is very sleek < 1586248425 491528 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i certainly can't envisage a better one < 1586248431 489226 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it is an amazing feat in some way... making {AB} -> 1{A}{B} work, in particular, is impressive (though it's intimately tied to the translations of K and S. But 5 bits for K and 8 for S is ridiculous. And if you don't stick to the fragment defined by {.} I honestly have no clue what programs mean. Neither [F] S K nor S (K [F]) really make much operational sense to me. < 1586248493 911309 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use ordered pairs to encode binary trees like everybody else. < 1586248587 309891 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Let me stress again that this is a matter of taste to me. There's nothing objectively wrong with Iota or Jot, I think. They're just ugly ;-) < 1586248641 867319 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4124:c93f:1f3f:d19c PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm in perfect agreement with int-e :-) < 1586248676 255652 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4124:c93f:1f3f:d19c PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be that we have similar taste... < 1586248911 394605 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah but that's what gives jot its sexy air of mystery < 1586248946 288416 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly the vast majority of programs aren't simple encodings of SKI expressions so what's going on there? < 1586249007 401456 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I expect it's just a terrible mess of chaos. Not that I've ever stared into that abyss at any depth ;) < 1586249058 625331 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this all started when i wondered how to encode church lists of ascii text out of boredom with normal online 'translate your text to binary!' converters) < 1586249123 549224 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously {.} will give you a completely boring result < 1586249160 771595 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: I think we both like lambda calculus (and by extension, combinatory logic--I don't think either of us can program combinatory logic directly, but abstraction elimination does the trick without blowing programs up too much), and we both can be tracked down into golfing efforts (which favor concise encodings, obviously). < 1586249242 241153 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: If you find a way to navigate the swamp (yeah I'm changing analogies) that lies off the trodden path defined by {.}, I think you can really impress a few people :) < 1586249335 490463 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4124:c93f:1f3f:d19c PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could see how far you get with a BB_jot < 1586249382 273112 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you even measure the result size? < 1586249414 18935 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4124:c93f:1f3f:d19c PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's always the blc size:-) < 1586249491 535070 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or bcl size, I guess < 1586249551 444462 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I guess this is another source of ugliness... you can't do evaluation in the language that you write your programs in. < 1586249562 589485 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1586249581 318547 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that's another issue, there are no clear reduction rules in terms of the 1/0 language < 1586249614 802647 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Anyway I don't want to discourage you from studying this beast. < 1586249668 144969 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll be impressed if i can find a concise encoding of 2 tbh < 1586249683 87140 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 is just... 1, i'm p sure < 1586249735 3829 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh there's another snag which is that the majority of jot programs arent in 'normal form', i.e. the 1[A][B] construction is invalid for them < 1586249770 497350 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can get around that by padding it on the left with enough 1s, and i think the number required is in general significantly less than you get from {.} < 1586251598 950814 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586251703 767671 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1586251980 324357 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586252054 20422 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586252058 853603 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1586255430 489006 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586255618 348868 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586255922 977750 :baidicoot!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586257585 148363 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1586258503 652023 :baidicoot!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586258525 408438 :baidicoot!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1586259692 850270 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Minimal operation language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70693&oldid=70678 5* 03A 5* (+147) 10Forgot to sign > 1586259908 344211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70694&oldid=70680 5* 03A 5* (+5001) 10 > 1586259933 617938 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70695&oldid=70694 5* 03A 5* (-13) 10 < 1586260030 399567 :baidicoot!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1586260093 304390 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: tromp: Phantom__Hoover: hm seems Jot enjoys a very interesting rule jot (f (unjot s)) = (jot f) s, how was it derived (don’t see it at Chris Barker’s page on it) and wasn’t that how Iota/Jot was constructed in the first place? < 1586260643 301400 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1586261909 388242 :baidicoot!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586262896 530287 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iota_and_Jot#Jot sketches a proof of that < 1586263027 574063 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: thanks, the more general form of that statement, with arbitrary w, helps < 1586269404 148971 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4124:c93f:1f3f:d19c PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i checked all my TODOs for 34. so we can say that BB(34) = 5*2^16+6 = 327686 < 1586269464 882466 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4124:c93f:1f3f:d19c PRIVMSG #esoteric :that cannot happen with TM BB; predicting a value far in advance of checking it:) < 1586269510 551564 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, granularity. < 1586269524 619903 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is a 34 bit TM? :) < 1586269572 610570 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4124:c93f:1f3f:d19c PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 4 state TM takes more than 34 bits to describe < 1586269581 724133 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also up to this point the fairly naive filters (not counting the W or W2 criteria which are a bit more clever) have been embarrassingly effective. < 1586269627 514445 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4124:c93f:1f3f:d19c PRIVMSG #esoteric :and BB(4) = 13 < 1586269634 645172 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4124:c93f:1f3f:d19c PRIVMSG #esoteric :for TMs < 1586269641 530977 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I still haven't looked at the W2 thing, and I think it'll be a couple of days before I do... I really want to give this problem a bit of thought first.) < 1586269677 804943 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also some simplicity to BLC. < 1586269731 416309 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4124:c93f:1f3f:d19c PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's simpler, more fine-grained, faster growing, and naturally expressed in bits. seems better in every respect... < 1586269803 156756 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing is, on an abstract level, what makes programming feasible is code reusage... giving a piece of code a name, and using it by that name somewhere else. Lambda calculus basically turns that principle into an evaluation mechanism, using substitution to put code where it's used so it can be evaluated. So it's eminently programmable, which is in stark contrast to Turing Machines. < 1586269856 67429 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So perhaps it's not completely surprising that the human understandable (\x. x x x x) 2 is also an actual good busy beaver. < 1586269893 423753 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(At least once you discover the Church numeral accident that exponentiation is just application.) < 1586269974 909464 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I still think the main factor is the better granularity of measuring program size. < 1586270010 327949 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4124:c93f:1f3f:d19c PRIVMSG #esoteric :bits beat states < 1586270282 473005 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there an analogue for http://oeis.org/A052200 (number of n-state 2-symbol TMs) modulo the obvious symmetries (permuting states, and I guess demanding that all states are reachable, at least in the graph given by the state transition diagram?) < 1586270379 194679 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> log (20^8/24)/log 2 -- naive estimate < 1586270381 642497 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 29.990462258377743 < 1586270935 111475 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: So... if we count closed terms... we reach that number (20^8/24) at size 41... < 1586271792 143301 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4124:c93f:1f3f:d19c PRIVMSG #esoteric :the normal count is (4n+4)^2n for n state TMs < 1586272203 199256 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4124:c93f:1f3f:d19c PRIVMSG #esoteric :4*2*log(4*4+4) = 34.6 < 1586272501 443211 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4124:c93f:1f3f:d19c PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a straighforward encoding, you're use a whole number of bits per transition, and it would rise to 4*2*ceil(log(4*4+4)) = 40 < 1586272508 325885 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4124:c93f:1f3f:d19c PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd use < 1586274120 328930 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric > 1586274242 1736 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck algorithms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70696&oldid=70692 5* 03Softengy 5* (+59) 10Added improved x = x * x algorithm < 1586275469 629157 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: Rebooting > 1586275856 844974 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck algorithms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70697&oldid=70696 5* 03Softengy 5* (+1) 10Edit to work with x=0 and not require wrapping < 1586275953 267006 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric > 1586275962 560488 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck algorithms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70698&oldid=70697 5* 03Softengy 5* (-6) 10/* x = x * x */ Fixed algorithm from incorrect previous edit < 1586277128 793113 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1586278171 924778 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal > 1586279196 209796 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck algorithms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70699&oldid=70698 5* 03Softengy 5* (+367) 10/* x = x / y */ Added wrapping algorithm < 1586281762 693643 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i started enumerating all jot programs to find 2 but i gave up on trying it in web browser haskell > 1586283358 47704 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Brainfuck algorithms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70700&oldid=70685 5* 03Softengy 5* (+257) 10 > 1586283705 835062 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Brainfuck algorithms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70701&oldid=70700 5* 03Softengy 5* (+228) 10Improved algorithm for x = x != y > 1586284111 10160 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* 10moved [[02CaneCode10]] to [[Cane Code]]: fix spacing < 1586284263 14129 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1586288752 475803 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Chevron14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70704&oldid=69927 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+15) 10fixed title < 1586290094 575189 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My paper about Mersenne Twister cracking method I used for Seed golfing will be publicly available in Phrack Magazine p71 < 1586290109 886696 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, there's a sneak peek on my homepagE: http://kspalaiologos.now.im/?id=9 < 1586290124 233067 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe someone's interested in this < 1586290205 225775 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1586292604 680085 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4124:c93f:1f3f:d19c QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586292640 843929 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:e5a1:36c2:1473:2da1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586293717 806844 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1586295125 20147 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586295265 366467 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1586295265 453985 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life > 1586296243 32562 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Seed14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70705&oldid=66263 5* 03Ais523 5* (+109) 10link to kspalaiologos's guide to Seed programming < 1586296271 166336 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586296324 962886 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: I was interested, although your algorithm is more complex than I expected; I was expecting there to be an instant reversal that produced optimal output, but maybe not? < 1586296384 524189 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked into reversing LCRNGs a while back, if you have all the bits it's trivial, if you have only a few bits of consecutive elements then reversing the sequence appears to be NP-complete but typically easy in practice < 1586296406 689224 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I forget the details but vaguely remember that you might be able to encode the subset sum problem in it) < 1586296661 217894 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Play Washizu Scrabble, which like Washizu mahjong, you can see half of your opponent's cards, it is played with teams, and only one player on each team has a score that counts. > 1586297005 708789 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Seed14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70706&oldid=70705 5* 03Ais523 5* (+777) 10reference formatting, cats, difference between Turing- and -complete, the existing proof is for -hardness but Turing-completeness is also possible < 1586297094 968436 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder how hard it is to write a Befunge-98 program which you can append anything to, and the resulting program will calculates its own length in bytes and interpret that as a program in some TC language < 1586297111 38483 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, anything made up of printable ASCII and newlines < 1586297123 229278 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there's an issue that trailing newlines might or might not be visible < 1586297135 167273 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trailing spaces on a line wouldn't be visible either. < 1586297150 271493 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, and that could be a larger problem < 1586297168 272806 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, Seed would actually still be TC if the Befunge-98 program ignored whitespace < 1586297194 375539 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be harder to calculate the length value you needed, but still fairly easy, as that only requires running the Mersenne Twister forwards and observing where the whitespace would be output < 1586297229 691998 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some interpreters where you can deduce the presence of trailing spaces, though, aren't there? < 1586297283 900212 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine so, but I don't think there's a portable way. Even the 'y' command's bounding box is defined in terms of "a non-space cell", not the original program source. < 1586297304 686052 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Even though it goes on to say: "These two vectors are useful to give to the o instruction to output the entire program source as a text file.") < 1586297491 520470 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could "simply" multiply the length value by 2¹⁹⁹³⁷-1 and have the program detect how many repeats of itself existed, although that would require proving that passing the Mersenne Twister through the modulo operation didn't create an output with a quotiented period < 1586297626 649811 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knuth's SGB defines a defines a random number generator based on linear feedback. it's a pity that that one didn't become as well spread and used as a standard as the Mersenne twister. it's probably because SGB doesn't define an initialization method that takes more than a word of seed. < 1586297715 21666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Mersenne Twister's internal state is kind-of ridiculous :-D < 1586297736 355179 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a benefit to having it that large? < 1586297928 142451 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: dunno. the SGB random generator has an internal state of 55 words, 32 bits each, plus an index into that. < 1586298143 131284 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NH4's PRNG has a 96-bit state, IIRC < 1586298184 638947 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but that has a different goal, doesn't it? NH4 wants to have an RNG that at least tries to be cryptographically secure, and sacrifices speed for that. < 1586298219 904088 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Mersenne twister and the linear consomething generators don't try to be crypto secure at all, instead they try to be as fast as possible on near future machines when they were designed < 1586298309 36809 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :TAOCP chapter 3.6 exercise 7 asks you to show that a linear congruential generator is very bad for cryptography, as in, find an attack < 1586298373 887710 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NH4's PRNG is not cryptographically secure, there are two requirements for cryptographic security, it only aims to satisfy one of them < 1586298399 283689 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(specifically, it cares about the property that observed output cannot be used to deduce future output, but not about any other CSPRNG properties) < 1586298443 647429 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know it's not cryptographically secure, but it at least tries to be closer to it < 1586298497 408710 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, it wants to make it hard to predict future outputs, whereas the Mersenne twister (and lcgs and multiply random generators) don't < 1586298521 498254 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that already makes NH4's random generator necessarily somewhat slower < 1586298531 345868 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make it fully cryptographically secure would be an overkill and even slower < 1586298577 93000 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: doesn't NH4 also care about that you can't deduce anything about past output other than what was told to you? < 1586298591 270315 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes, good point < 1586298612 760794 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't seen that mentioned as a cryptosecurity property in the past < 1586298630 728389 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's because it's implied by stronger properties I think < 1586298639 885793 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, 96 bits seems pretty small even for that, < 1586298642 671548 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, the stronger property is "you can't deduce past output from knowledge of the seed" < 1586298652 920631 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, we're not basing our banking system on the NH4 random generator, it's just a game < 1586298676 503005 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course, if you /can/ deduce past output from future output, then you can deduce it from knowledge of the seed simply by generating some future output from it and using it to calculate past output < 1586298692 767005 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's not quite precise < 1586298717 488376 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also require that you can't deduce past output from the combination of future output and other past output before that < 1586298721 405618 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you can't deduce past output from knowledge of the current internal state" is the precise formulation, I think < 1586298728 709006 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, of the property that NH4 has < 1586298729 517128 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the current seed isn't enough for that < 1586298743 194016 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1586298858 224565 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"if you have a sequence of RNG outputs where some are unknown, you can't deduce the unknown elements from the known elements" < 1586298891 980236 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course this is trivially false if the length of the sequence exceeds the period of the RNG, but we're assuming that the number of outputs which will ever be requested is small compared to the period < 1586298902 615430 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sort of, but technically you need even stronger, because your knowledge need not be granular to individual elements of the sequence < 1586298935 264653 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the period of the NH4 random generator (at an order of magnitude)? < 1586298961 861206 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :same as the state size, 2⁹⁶ < 1586299002 905392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I don't know that for certain, but if it isn't, the cryptographic hash I'm using is utterly broken :-D < 1586299065 18639 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1586299145 613418 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, it's pretty certain that the period is 2⁹⁶ because the only way it couldn't be would be if the hash function ignored the first bit of its input entirely if it happened to be exactly 96 bits long < 1586299161 369338 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's no way that brokenness of that magnitude wouldn't be noticed < 1586299213 740630 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1586300485 801338 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1586302059 303916 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1586302065 244164 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric > 1586303126 530583 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Alphaprint14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70707&oldid=70489 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+13) 10/* Output */ fixed > 1586303398 911171 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07LogicF---14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70708&oldid=70473 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+28) 10Cat fix /* Examples */ < 1586304298 200791 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1586304308 134368 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1586305239 440230 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586305440 14125 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds > 1586306190 910308 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Parenthesis Hell14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70709&oldid=18413 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+4) 10Linked to inspiration, Lisp > 1586306468 794747 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Function x(y)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70710&oldid=70475 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+80) 10/* Syntax */ Yes // is Integer divison > 1586306509 768072 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Function x(y)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70711&oldid=70710 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-86) 10/* FizzBuzz */ > 1586306786 82896 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lisp14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70712&oldid=70114 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+430) 10/* List processing */ Added section on pronunciations and composed cars and cdrs < 1586307098 959884 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe some common sense can set me straight: I'm building a service. bit of a "high-class" version of LambdaMOO with an economy attached to the middle of it. in it, I need to be able to run user-submitted code. arbitrary user-submitted code. < 1586307150 303636 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :this code needs to be sandboxed. so, I turn to "popular" tools. node.js springs to mind. seems alright enough. I have a couple of things like a job queue, an SQL ORM, websocket support... < 1586307178 867292 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm at a crossroads between two options. do I use something like a Forth, or PostScript. or do I use sandboxed JavaScript. < 1586307201 73608 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586307228 75047 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured I'd first ask the esolangs channel because, why not. esolangs are kind of at the opposite end of the UX spectrum. < 1586307265 899640 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: I'd do some sort of language-independent sandboxing instead < 1586307300 148374 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: I'd take that route too. but there's a lot of variables associated with that. < 1586307301 922447 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, no, language-independent wouldn't be enough < 1586307327 167012 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :bear in mind. user code runs per-command. < 1586307335 964488 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe Lua? < 1586307346 352328 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :no good way to do memory limits. < 1586307355 64156 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :or CPU time measurements. < 1586307378 86200 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine 10k+ users, all frothing at the chance to knock your machines out of memory. < 1586307474 498211 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's essentially a choice between creating a slightly user-hostile environment, sacrificing user experience for simplicity and control, vs. using V8 isolates via an npm package called `isolated-vm`. < 1586307778 480172 :baidicoot!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1586307807 163519 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd go for something where there's a separate sandboxed process, and some sort of API to communicate with the main server process < 1586308112 966092 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'm also discounting what people did for the DCPU-16 or whatever that was. < 1586308157 169379 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a game that never even released. < 1586308426 392064 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could have an entire virtual machine with its own instruction set, but that's definitely a bit overkill < 1586308460 160262 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already have some prior work that does this. < 1586308515 521529 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why I'm torn. it brings up questions as to why JavaScript grew to be so popular, and whether an application's extensability mechanism will be used in spite of its current popularity. < 1586308838 638833 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Be careful if using the sandboxing in Node.js; use Object.create(null) to create the sandbox object, and don't put in any objects that come from outside of the sandbox. < 1586308853 888265 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be using https://github.com/laverdet/isolated-vm < 1586308860 133168 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Javascript is popular because it's pretty much only programming language all popular web browsers support < 1586308908 179689 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, PostScript might work (in -dSAFER mode, which is now the default; you can also use writable systemdict to delete some entries that you don't want before locking it; for example, you probably don't need any of the graphics operations or device operations), and making your own variant of Forth could also work. < 1586308935 582805 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also use other implementations of JavaScript, and write your own interface to it. < 1586308979 157996 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are many other possibilities too. < 1586308998 925903 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: right. so it's popular based on the strength of its userbase, because its userbase is derived from people that use a web browser, and people that want to create things that fit in a web browser. < 1586309024 528241 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in order to do memory limits and CPU time limits, you would do something else, such as setrlimit. < 1586309072 901047 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also, as mentioned, Lua, and also SQL, even. And actually there are many other possibilities too. < 1586309257 22018 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :which possibilities will people actually tolerate, is the question. < 1586309300 951943 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think different people may tolerate different things, perhaps. < 1586309337 147883 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think my users want to do stack juggling in their heads. < 1586309360 260584 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something that other programming languages can be compiled to might be helpful, maybe. < 1586309372 859736 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was looking into WASM, but it's very immature. < 1586309520 175108 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might use a VM such as Glulx, although as far as I know none of the other programming languages listed can be compiled as Glulx code (and you may need your own I/O system too; this is possible if needed) < 1586311385 305973 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric > 1586313999 411547 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALIMBIHNN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70713&oldid=70209 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+94) 10Add cats, because everyone loves cats > 1586314282 513787 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck.NET14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70714&oldid=61456 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+82) 10Some categories > 1586314359 51376 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck Contest14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70715&oldid=56236 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+37) 10Added category (even though it doesn't exist) > 1586314409 400672 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck Contest 114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70716&oldid=68696 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+38) 10Added a nonexistent category > 1586314487 361465 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck Contest 214]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70717&oldid=56237 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+37) 10Added a category that as yet doesn't exist > 1586314632 538592 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck Sharp14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70718&oldid=49987 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+18) 10Even though the language is gone, a date category is still helpful for the sake of history > 1586314726 131518 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck Substitutor14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70719&oldid=51660 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+76) 10Added a couple categories < 1586314937 547440 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the FOR command in Pascal have something like the STEP in BASIC? > 1586315110 489217 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck derivatives with nontrivial computational class proofs14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70720&oldid=58333 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+20) 10Added Proofs category > 1586315140 831866 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck in Python14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70721&oldid=57063 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+28) 10Added implementation category < 1586315141 317850 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se JOIN :#esoteric > 1586315170 748019 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck in Python14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70722&oldid=70721 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+1) 10Fixed Implementations category > 1586315250 483438 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70723&oldid=53416 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+81) 10Added some categories > 1586316339 992969 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Aperture14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70724&oldid=50609 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+1349) 10Unblanked this page with a new joke language of my own invention > 1586316476 473927 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70725&oldid=70045 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+107) 10Added (re-added?) Aperture > 1586316647 350089 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:IFcoltransG14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70726&oldid=70005 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+116) 10Added Aperture lang > 1586316669 634428 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:IFcoltransG14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70727&oldid=70726 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (-3) 10/* Published Esoteric Languages */ removed extraneous word < 1586317646 68353 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: look that up in http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Loops/For_with_a_specified_step < 1586317927 528631 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, they say it doesn't have it > 1586318025 328737 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Armok14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70728&oldid=61332 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+69) 10Added some categories > 1586318045 394735 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Armok14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70729&oldid=70728 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (-2) 10What is up with my spelling today? > 1586318235 485986 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Cactusi14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70730&oldid=68799 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+43) 10Added categories < 1586319655 224936 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-171-136.cdrr.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) > 1586322297 953589 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Parenthesis Hell14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70731&oldid=69951 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+327) 10/* Blog post */ new section < 1586323136 847420 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:e5a1:36c2:1473:2da1 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586323463 867102 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:b909:387b:8115:a623 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586323739 840315 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:b909:387b:8115:a623 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1586325372 918600 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:b909:387b:8115:a623 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586325549 387129 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586325629 838162 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:b909:387b:8115:a623 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1586325939 328046 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1586326153 235234 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1586326657 8679 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:b909:387b:8115:a623 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586326722 669764 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1586326752 242576 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586326788 823648 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 the algorithm is instant. the BXn one I haven't published isn't. < 1586326789 121840 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1586326949 854260 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ais532 the state size makes the generator maybe go a bit faster, and allows some room for vectorization. < 1586326950 65843 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1586327037 170094 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1586328289 388393 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586328299 636539 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry but my IRC client is going nuts < 1586328331 718476 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais532 the state size makes the generator maybe go a bit faster, and allows some room for vectorization. < 1586328332 39281 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1586328477 634183 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have a guess when pokemon numbers will exceed three digits and when pokemon numbers will exceed sixteen bits? < 1586331714 34632 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're asking me => I don't know anything about pokemon(s) < 1586332780 650240 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: exceed three digits => probably when the first pair of generation 9 pokemon games are released, in 2 or 3 years. sixteen bits => never, the video game franchise won't last that long. < 1586332925 695311 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: however, it's possible that the National Pokedex numbering scheme will be abandonned some day, so there will be pokemon with no clear number in it. there are already variant pokemons with no separate numeric indexes. < 1586332966 803499 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1586333870 636055 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, assuming they are using unsigned 16 bit and they will introduce 200 pokemon each year, it will happen 323 years after exceeding three digits < 1586333881 303439 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would also expect that to be unlikely < 1586334160 381091 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1586334273 709002 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( s/introduce/release/ ) < 1586334477 533862 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :into the wild! < 1586334600 201677 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do have to capture them, don't you? < 1586334847 817232 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric -> welcome to the world of pokemon & mtg fans, mathematicans and crazy harp tuners < 1586334872 903304 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :every single of these topics is something I don't understand :p < 1586334874 923112 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone maybe have to but I’m not interested, let them go forth and multip… er, live in peace < 1586334887 770671 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: ^ < 1586334896 331203 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: crazy harp tuners? < 1586334910 632817 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: forth is another big mystery to me ;) < 1586334912 169887 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`?q harp < 1586334914 470238 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​?q? No such file or directory < 1586334917 505364 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`q harp < 1586334918 436025 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :1280) hmm, I just remembered that I was formally trained to tune harps < 1586334922 204466 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ this < 1586334928 322287 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1586334948 39850 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: you forgot the punsters < 1586334974 24475 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how could I... :p < 1586335004 515050 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: erm I retcon I actually meant “go fourth”, in light of harp tuning it makes more sense. Then they may go fifth and maybe a seventh and them bam microtonality and mass extinction < 1586335029 805097 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? harp < 1586335031 165587 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :harp? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1586335041 627002 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hairpin < 1586335042 966236 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :hairpin? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1586335049 442363 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? harpoon < 1586335052 263516 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :harpoon? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1586335055 427608 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1586335090 901570 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric : why jbot died < 1586335090 989799 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric : kspalaiologos: int-e killed it so that you don't spam the channel :-) < 1586335094 353865 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my favourite so far xD < 1586335131 369165 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: The fourth, the fifth, the minor fall, the major lift, the baffled king composing hallelujah? < 1586335160 907057 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: ais523 is the harp tuner, the crazy are some other ones of us #esoteric members < 1586335189 298623 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? alice < 1586335190 563230 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alice doesn't want to go among mad people. < 1586335193 537120 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: oh, I actually didn’t know the lyrics so this is a coincidence < 1586335221 168042 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I remember < 1586335232 114968 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :though also there are far too many songs about songwriting < 1586335255 890880 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, are there that much paintings about painting? < 1586335267 251170 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only know this one because of Shrek. < 1586335270 352224 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :or sculptures of sculpting < 1586335300 90079 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Paintings_about_painting < 1586335306 363338 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :or esolangs abou… oh < 1586335314 758805 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: there are paintings about collecting paintings < 1586335319 71678 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: thanks :DD < 1586335323 260151 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drawing_Hands < 1586335324 128305 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: :o < 1586335329 344824 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically reader's digest paintings, so that kings can show their rich painting collection to other people < 1586335332 323356 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :serious < 1586335335 655511 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, the hands I do know! < 1586335354 618081 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know many sculptures of sculpting < 1586335395 910503 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sculpture about sculpting would be hard to make < 1586335414 907710 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :movies about movies < 1586335415 979097 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I'm oriented in art, lol < 1586335424 50649 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : the crazy are some other ones of us => is that property decidable? < 1586335425 130848 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tv shows about television < 1586335425 442206 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, there's just too many of these, lol < 1586335449 225809 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :articles about journalism < 1586335465 55871 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :observations about observations < 1586335476 500290 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :where does it stop? < 1586335504 66089 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :human culture is too obsessed with itself ;) < 1586335524 855960 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: the parliament building has a bunch of small statues decorating the top of indoor columns, each depicting a different profession. they're pretty nice, but there's a surprising lack of photos of them on the internet, so I don't recall whether there's a sculptor. I think there's a painter. < 1586335553 689080 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's fascinating < 1586335782 411802 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a resource on binary lambda calculus that will explain it to me like I'm five? < 1586335827 580654 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : where does it stop? => that’s precisely the question < 1586335892 992344 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :five is 101, so yes, no and yes^W^W^W^W^W^W^W^W < 1586335910 244474 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright so from what I can understand, one can simply create a lambda and execute it on a certain bit < 1586335927 627362 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: maybe the missing part is de Bruijn indices which are used there < 1586335939 567621 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But 5 is 0000011100111001110011100111010 ;) < 1586335942 131376 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 1x0 construct lets you grab nth in the depth parameter? < 1586335980 359198 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: one can simply create a lambda and execute it on a certain bit => ah, not quite that. This is just plain lambda calculus, just expressed via bit strings < 1586335992 722657 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: Yes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Bruijn_index may help. < 1586335996 414494 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I' < 1586335998 455526 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :m reading this < 1586336006 871998 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why on this image attached 2 is reffering to the first lambda < 1586336023 355348 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it skips two terms, right? < 1586336056 950493 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: it skips the green one; the blue and orange lambdas aren't in scope, so the red one is next < 1586336062 468314 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: sculptures of sculpture, see https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Sculptures_of_sculptors ; https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Carpeaux_au_travail is a good example, it shows a human holding a statuette and a tool in hands < 1586336062 651147 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(okay I’ll go eat something already) < 1586336072 306732 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1586336081 72882 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get it, theoretically < 1586336088 533808 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :still I can't see how can it be useful < 1586336089 358110 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: this may make more sense if you draw the term as a tree < 1586336092 327077 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Monument_%C3%A0_Emmanuel_Fr%C3%A9miet_by_Henri_Greber_(1913) might be an even better example < 1586336128 9697 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how much did it take to squeeze a brainfuck interpreter into this < 1586336141 618718 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: (a tree where lambdas have one child, and applications have two children... then you can resolve the indices by walking up the tree) < 1586336149 137986 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: thanks too < 1586336149 721881 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine < 1586336156 441500 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try to understand some examples < 1586336201 79063 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can this language have I/O < 1586336215 752904 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just outputs the final list/whatever? < 1586336238 847270 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you pass in a (lazy) list of bits (or bytes) and produce a similar list of outputs as a result < 1586336240 237878 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it may be clearer if trying to write some functions on those terms, like substitution or something < 1586336259 633211 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one can supply input to the program, right < 1586336282 983498 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from what I can see, this language seems to have the same problem of O(n) complexity when storing constants < 1586336292 721995 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like this five you've posted is absurdly long < 1586336297 455119 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So fundamentally you'll have to understand how data is encoded... that will probably take a while to become fluent with. < 1586336361 754116 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: It's only that big because it's the full Church numeral (\f\x. f (f (f (f (f x))))) < 1586336409 739227 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Outputting much more than 300 bits in Perl will land your computer in swap hell.) => lmao < 1586336419 252637 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does blc consume this much memory? < 1586336482 498827 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asymptotically the program size doesn't matter... at a few hundred bits you can write decoders for much more efficient data formats. < 1586336533 755893 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. I suppose golfed blc code doesn't tend to be very friendly to garbage collection. < 1586336635 500363 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh primes. The underlying algorithm uses a quadratic amount of memory I think (and the constant factor isn't small either). < 1586336650 245040 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:b909:387b:8115:a623 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: try reading https://tromp.github.io/cl/Binary_lambda_calculus.html < 1586336767 878455 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The quadratic memory usage is a result of golfing; the constant factor could be improved by a better VM I suppose. < 1586336840 396570 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:b909:387b:8115:a623 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i still need to fix the proof of the W2 rule. It's not true that B^V has (W^V)^+ W^V in head position < 1586336912 122376 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:b909:387b:8115:a623 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other observations still hold < 1586336947 180518 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:b909:387b:8115:a623 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would suffice to show that W^V is strict < 1586336995 350553 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: I'll take your word for it (still mulling over the problem myself) < 1586337008 619355 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so haven't looked at what your proposed generalization is) < 1586338303 712376 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586338393 807793 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1586338482 912859 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586338499 810865 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1586338561 11950 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586338562 142798 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1586339128 796036 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric > 1586339668 130885 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Cactusi14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70732&oldid=70730 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+0) 10correct (I hope) year category < 1586340759 800422 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-171-136.cdrr.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586341391 997645 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:b909:387b:8115:a623 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: see latest commit for proof fix and added conjecture on which proof rests < 1586341806 399230 :baidicoot!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586343374 304497 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586344808 511563 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-005-215-076.178.005.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.4 < 1586345329 831833 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-005-215-076.178.005.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1586346671 391148 :baidicoot!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1586347348 781922 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586347395 779682 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1586350072 990090 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586350130 449121 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais532 < 1586350132 819853 :ais532!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1586350135 701603 :ais532!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1586350138 291603 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1586350177 700191 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : mroman asked 5y 11m 9d 17h 22m 55s ago: can you do a "programming languages with no Hello world" list? ← I wonder if mroman is still interested in this < 1586350200 280466 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if my nick had been correctly spelled the first time, there wouldn't have been the ~6-year wait < 1586350256 665652 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Do you have a guess when pokemon numbers will exceed three digits and when pokemon numbers will exceed sixteen bits? ← there's a lot of evidence that Game Freak is planning to abandon the National Pokédex numbering scheme, so it's likely that the numbering scheme will change before either of those benchmarks are reached < 1586350412 110108 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell mroman I think most esolangs don't have a hello world, in many cases because they aren't capable of producing text output; making a list of esolangs which can hello world but don't have one would likely have to be done manually and be very time consuming < 1586350412 391724 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1586353333 482107 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586353400 975466 :baidicoot!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586354776 529335 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Petition to start calling categories monoidoid (by analogy with semigroupoid, groupoid) > 1586355829 536574 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03EvoEvoEvoEvoLution 5* 10New user account < 1586356676 308689 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1586356697 645649 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yo > 1586356726 169481 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Neg14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70733&oldid=65727 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+2) 10/* Superpositions */ fix typo < 1586357127 494658 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are you doing? > 1586357163 210244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Eso2D14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70734&oldid=70371 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+76) 10/* Truth-machine */ > 1586357181 395209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70735&oldid=70386 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+67) 10/* Eso2D */ Added Eso2D > 1586357237 71364 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70736&oldid=70735 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-6) 10/* XENBLN */ Updating > 1586357472 668891 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70737&oldid=70736 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+115) 10/* DINAC */ > 1586357548 386380 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70738&oldid=70737 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+25) 10/* Implementations */ > 1586358257 879909 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PlusOrMinus14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70739&oldid=69838 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+38) 10/* Resources */ < 1586358711 776061 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric > 1586358753 718014 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PlusOrMinus 214]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=70740 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1256) 102D version of PlusOrMinus > 1586358808 669517 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70741&oldid=70738 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+327) 10/* PlusOrMinus 2 */ < 1586358862 483755 :kiedtl!~kiedtl@2601:148:280:4a0::c71a JOIN :#esoteric > 1586358971 291184 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PlusOrMinus 214]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70742&oldid=70740 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+10) 10/* Commands */ > 1586358982 234506 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PlusOrMinus 214]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70743&oldid=70742 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1) 10/* Commands */ > 1586359850 969792 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* 10moved [[02Css Script10]] to [[Css script]]: fix capitalization > 1586359966 422279 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Css script14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70746&oldid=70744 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (-19) 10formatting > 1586360447 593650 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Cubically14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70747&oldid=52173 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+87) 10added repo link < 1586360519 924633 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmao what, css script? > 1586361912 185840 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07D1ffe7e45e14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70748&oldid=62325 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title < 1586362037 612441 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the css script website appears to be a dead link already < 1586362053 620786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the repo is up < 1586362140 633773 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it appears to be a primitive-recursive language with a large number of primitives for graphical output < 1586362148 281997 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what relationship it has to CSS < 1586362214 868164 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah no, I think it supports recursion, which would make it TC given bignums < 1586362220 553680 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(e.g. you can implement Blindfolded Arithmetic) < 1586362256 561409 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless, hmm < 1586362271 814026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it has any conditionals and I'm not convinced that the arithmetic allows two variables as arguments < 1586362480 250487 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, looking at the implementation, does seem to allow two variables, so yes, you can do Blindfolder Arithmetic < 1586362499 858017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the relationship to CSS appears to be that the implementation's output is in CSS < 1586362567 59924 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, the output is hardcoded to go into the file C:/Users/Dell/Desktop/entry/git/css-script-candy/css_script/output.html, which strikes me as a fairly awkward API < 1586362606 410111 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the output appears to actually be HTML+CSS, not pure CSS < 1586362777 881923 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a little disappointing, I was secretly hoping it would be CSS with a .html extension < 1586362962 60569 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but doesn't the division operator do floating point division? < 1586362968 718521 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also doesn't it use floating point numbers? < 1586363001 446324 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's fixed size machine floats, then you can't do too much blindfolded arithmetic < 1586363109 90756 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1586363114 870058 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet you could do something using floating-point errors < 1586363114 922527 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm no, it is floor division, but it's still machine floating point < 1586363122 583792 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it really were float division) < 1586363123 252481 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :64-bit floating point < 1586363132 917979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it would still be sub-TC due to the floats only having finitely many values < 1586363152 847004 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Python has arbitrary-precision integers < 1586363162 603408 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what happens if you add one of those to the floored result of a division < 1586363203 159650 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :python has arbitrary precision integers, but this impl doesn't do arithmetic on those < 1586363229 776490 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ/css-script/blob/master/css_script/main.py#L322 < 1586363249 835766 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :float is the built-in floating point type, which uses 64-bit machine floats < 1586363273 754884 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless of course there's some trick elsewhere in that code < 1586363286 510065 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it appears to use isdigit() to parse constants < 1586363358 669848 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so constants are any strings consisting entirely of digits < 1586363384 175420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think variables will be stored as Python integers throughout < 1586363402 248678 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless rand/sine/cos/abssine are used < 1586363420 350299 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm, no < 1586363420 815527 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :was probably posted today to the wiki because it has a function called passover: https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ/css-script/blob/master/css_script/main.py#L351 < 1586363434 870045 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you assign a constant to a variable the value seems to be stored as a string (?) < 1586363452 689192 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1586363467 69550 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses floats to do arithmetic, even though it uses ints to store the result of transcendental operations, and strings to store constants < 1586363481 635076 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(constant numbers) < 1586363526 691318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes, sub-TC because each program can only have finitely many variables < 1586363539 650779 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it uses int to store the input of the transcendental constants, and yes that's weird < 1586363545 312683 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, ints are for the /argument/ to the transcendental operation < 1586363549 369541 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* operations < 1586363559 1210 :baidicoot!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586363567 410399 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot refute the hypothesis that types in this language were just picked at random until it appeared to work < 1586363612 334484 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said this seems ot be the sort of interpreter where the author just adds the features they need at the time, and they may edit more features into it later as they want to write more programs, so it might just eventually grow more powerful by the time < 1586363658 372090 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1586363664 887446 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they'll even get the domain name they want! < 1586363790 970880 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, they claim to be a web developer < 1586363840 621744 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :although they also claim to do "IoT" and "Machine learning" and "Desktop development" so it might just be a fashionable keyword for the cv < 1586363859 252217 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they're a web developer, just probably not a very good one < 1586364104 308531 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also has an introductory programming book at https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ/Think-Python-Fr/blob/master/all_in_one.md , let me see if that has code that looks better < 1586364417 889646 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main issue I note is that the indentation is wrong < 1586364424 335413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, considering that this is Python, is something of an issue < 1586364441 755641 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not always, but sometimes < 1586364534 205878 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1586364544 659270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a translation of a book by someone else < 1586364555 315620 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"traduction du livre: Think Python, How To Think Like A Computer Scientist d'Allan Downey" < 1586364573 234596 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and apparently unfinished, because the formatting goes crazy towards the end < 1586364690 380278 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, the indentation of some code got lost somewhere in the conversions < 1586364793 189391 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, probably because it's in progress < 1586364851 959556 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this helps confirm my belief that indentation-sensitivity is too fragile for a serious programming language < 1586364859 859631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because code may be conveyed in formats that don't retain indentation well < 1586364995 558542 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Collect a sequence of code points that are ASCII digits from input given position, and interpret the resulting sequence as a base-ten integer. < 1586365010 156893 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it goes to a huge amount of trouble to specify everything in great detail, but forgets to specify the endianness here < 1586365016 617601 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I should submit a bug report < 1586365058 118480 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, apparently -0 is a valid nonnegative integer in HTML, which is interesting as nonnegative integers are defined with a different parser from integers < 1586365082 355834 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, wait, it isn't < 1586365093 738540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the parser for nonnegative integers will accept it, but you aren't allowed to include a minus sign in the input < 1586365098 506131 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first 9 chapters are formatted correctly and the code indentation looks fine in them < 1586365101 890465 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, a hyphen-minus sign < 1586365153 500007 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, the endianness of the fractional part of a float /is/ specified, even though the endianness of the integer part isn't < 1586365177 260606 :baidicoot!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586365284 659128 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: where is that from? < 1586365371 56646 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reading the HTML standard < 1586365384 542265 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably I won't get through the whole thing < 1586365389 675024 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the specific page is https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/common-microsyntaxes.html > 1586365454 77180 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello today I am a unicorn14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=70749 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+2592) 10+[[Hello today I am a unicorn]] > 1586365457 946924 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70750&oldid=70609 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+33) 10+[[Hello today I am a unicorn]] > 1586365461 539697 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Hakerh40014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70751&oldid=70591 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+33) 10+[[Hello today I am a unicorn]] > 1586366028 504243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello today I am a unicorn14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70752&oldid=70749 5* 03Ais523 5* (+524) 10explain why this is TC; remove reference list because there aren't any > 1586366535 8963 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07The Great Spell14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70753&oldid=69567 5* 03Qwertyu63 5* (-1) 10 > 1586366597 19001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07The Great Spell14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70754&oldid=70753 5* 03Qwertyu63 5* (+71) 10 > 1586366700 94949 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello today I am a unicorn14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70755&oldid=70752 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+1) 10fix typo > 1586366831 68416 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07The Great Spell14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70756&oldid=70754 5* 03Qwertyu63 5* (+17) 10 > 1586366947 89863 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PokBattle14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70757&oldid=49066 5* 03Qwertyu63 5* (+43) 10/* Syntax */ < 1586366947 347870 :baidicoot!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds > 1586367015 261238 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PokBattle14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70758&oldid=70757 5* 03Qwertyu63 5* (+29) 10/* Commands/Moves */ > 1586367080 962107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PokBattle14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70759&oldid=70758 5* 03Qwertyu63 5* (+75) 10/* Pokemon */ < 1586367358 51395 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1586367646 900688 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : Petition to start calling categories monoidoid (by analogy with semigroupoid, groupoid) => yesss < 1586368322 867677 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :no big secret we can do some calculations with affine geometry, dipping an affine space into a one-more-dimensional linear space and treating vectors from this (now) subspace as points and vectors parallel to it as point translation vectors. Introducing exterior algebra, one can even join two points into a line with using plain exterior product ∧ on them. But one can’t join two coplanar lines this way, as they would wedge to zero, b < 1586368322 976300 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :eing factorizable as a∧b and a∧c for some a, b, c. This boils down to the question, how can I calculate the union of two subspaces in an arbitrary linear space, using exterior algebra elements as representations of subspaces? < 1586368388 229506 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and also intersections, but we can just dualize a working way to do union after finding it) < 1586368509 122273 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read a bit things about “geometric algebra”, which is just an applied real Clifford algebra theory, and I hadn’t found a description of this failure to do meet. They seem to simply take ∧ and I can’t believe no one needed to compute a union of the sort I mentioned < 1586368535 795596 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is suspicious > 1586369147 572754 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DOGO14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70760&oldid=30155 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+29) 10/* External resources */ fixed link < 1586370028 73597 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ayacc < 1586370030 158365 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :ayacc is ais523's yacc parser generator implementation, get it from darcs clone http://nethack4.org/projects/ayacc > 1586370070 577669 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70761&oldid=70572 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+121) 10/* Languages */ > 1586370216 846336 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70762&oldid=70761 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+102) 10/* Possibly useful regexes */ > 1586370530 551453 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Function x(y)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70763&oldid=70711 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+53) 10/* FizzBuzz */ Fixed some errors > 1586370936 930985 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Function x(y)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70764&oldid=70763 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+287) 10 > 1586370990 157530 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Function x(y)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70765&oldid=70764 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1) 10/* FizzBuzz */ > 1586371170 989062 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:JonoCode937414]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70766&oldid=69631 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+14) 10/* MineFriff */ Fixing link to ><> and brainf > 1586371809 171499 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Hakerh400/How to write quines14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70767&oldid=69424 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1) 10/* Initial draft */ typo fixed < 1586372851 366727 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : this is suspicious => ah now I at least see why those linear meet and join need to evaluate to zero in the unfortunate cases. If the orientation of the result cannot be determined uniquely from orientations of the arguments, then zero is the only sensible option. Maybe I need to find another framework for affine subspace operations, then < 1586372867 533928 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunate, unfortunate < 1586374204 853360 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by analogy with monoidoid and monoid, what is a mon? < 1586374369 589091 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mon is abbreviation for Monday < 1586374447 841221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that works category-theoretically < 1586374732 479057 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night. < 1586374736 397897 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1586374791 622540 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PlusOrMinus 214]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70768&oldid=70743 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+346) 10/* Auto-formatting */ > 1586375119 790022 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Dc14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70769&oldid=55321 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title < 1586375149 804644 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did I rekindle my interest in Tcl? It's a ridiculously unsafe language if used wrong, and whenever I write Tcl code I invariably end up with a memory leak because of fundamental limitations to its GC > 1586375404 176 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DcScript14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70770&oldid=69670 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title < 1586375423 740977 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's incredibly tempting. < 1586375883 26697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know much Tcl < 1586375896 504116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks intruiging but I've never had a sufficiently compelling use case for it to be worth learning it < 1586375904 693004 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although, I did learn enough to add it to the polyglot) < 1586376097 758379 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall Eggdrop was scripted most commonly in Tcl. < 1586376104 905566 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: why the check of ayacc, incidentally? < 1586376106 438792 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the building of SQLite and its documentation is using Tcl, I think. < 1586376110 385430 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can currently work on it a bit more freely than usual < 1586376113 564720 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but haven't had a need to < 1586376276 933574 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: someone on IRC mentioned that they made a different custom yacc for some project they need, plus a lexer to go with it < 1586376296 781708 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://repo.hu/projects/byaccic/ with a push parser (stackless) < 1586376322 922938 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although, I think the coding for generating source files should be written in C and/or shell scripts, the coding for documentation generation should be written in PostScript, and the testing codes should be both Tcl and C.) < 1586376329 541115 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also they searched for "ayacc" on google and found a different yacc that generates ada code or some such < 1586376339 265369 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/Ada-France/ayacc < 1586376344 36870 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently the name is not unique enough < 1586376390 765008 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you should have called it aiyacc < 1586376429 250871 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some things are going to have the same name due to not knowing that is something else called that, I will think, and other reasons too < 1586376465 468976 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1586376467 806895 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another alternative to yacc is Lemon < 1586376485 89426 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: we did look at that, but we agreed with ais523 that we don't like its interface < 1586376510 189321 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been planning a more radical parser framework of my own, separate from ayacc (which exists to run pre-existing yacc programs) < 1586376533 194465 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no... not a framework. I hate frameworks < 1586376543 887078 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are always the worst software to actually work with < 1586376544 12329 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not a framework in /that/ sense, probably at least < 1586376553 453851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic idea is to combine the parse and lex phases via allowing the use of a state machine (effectively a regular expression) to do lookahead < 1586376591 39995 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, if you do not like Lemon, then you do not have to use it, although I like the features of Lemon (although the documentation for Lemon now says that apparently Bison also has some of these features too, so it will work too). < 1586376592 943471 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this means that if the grammar requires unlimited lookahead to function correctly (which it will in many cases), you will still need two passes over the input, although this time the first one goes backwards and the second one goes forwards < 1586376606 223072 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: which specific features do you like? < 1586376639 534536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other basic idea is, instead of running user-supplied code to split the input into data structures, to use optimized general-purpose data structures that are more efficient than linked trees < 1586376667 530850 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although this means they can't be changed in-place, rather code that manipulates them works by treewalking an existing tree and creating a new tree as it does so < 1586376688 318594 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is to take advantage of vectorisation and memory locality < 1586376701 277435 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That you can have multiple parsers. < 1586376719 818855 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The tokenizer calling the parser is also useful for some programs. < 1586376744 725489 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiple parsers are trivial to implement even in yacc < 1586376755 86262 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by adding an extra token at the start to choose between them < 1586376761 744709 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although ayacc allows a more direct API for that < 1586376768 848640 :Maris!9db570ae@client-112-174.eduroam.elte.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1586376784 875275 :Maris!9db570ae@client-112-174.eduroam.elte.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohi < 1586376799 26656 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Maris < 1586376819 330386 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The %fallback command is also useful for some programs, such as SQLite, and so are some of the other commands. < 1586377034 699692 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: O, OK. I should look at the ayacc, although it is just a 403 error apparently because it requires darcs to work (although maybe 406 is better, or perhaps is better for it to download the files anyways, such as in a tape archive) < 1586377241 504443 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I can try to create a tarball for you, give me a moment < 1586377314 430419 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: try http://nethack4.org/pastebin/ayacc-2020-04.tar.gz < 1586377341 114196 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, it will unpack into a folder called "mainline" < 1586377347 108140 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually ayacc though < 1586377406 828702 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I downloaded that. < 1586377407 827015 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: fun, that's what everyone complains about. I just pasted it temporarily to https://dpaste.org/qorS/raw though. < 1586377429 982995 :baidicoot!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586377466 614517 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ayacc < 1586377467 951190 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :ayacc is ais523's yacc parser generator implementation, get it from darcs clone http://nethack4.org/projects/ayacc < 1586377485 689853 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn ayacc is ais523's yacc parser generator implementation, get it from http://nethack4.org/pastebin/ayacc-2020-04.tar.gz or from darcs clone http://nethack4.org/projects/ayacc < 1586377488 393758 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relearned 'ayacc': ayacc is ais523's yacc parser generator implementation, get it from http://nethack4.org/pastebin/ayacc-2020-04.tar.gz or from darcs clone http://nethack4.org/projects/ayacc < 1586377495 302314 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm no wait < 1586377497 875795 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? rules of wisdom < 1586377499 172088 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless essential for the entry‘s humor, \ they should: be understandable without the lookup key, be single spaced and end in a newline with no space before that, and use proper capitalization and punctuation < 1586377528 300306 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn ayacc is ais523's yacc parser generator implementation, get it from http://nethack4.org/pastebin/ayacc-2020-04.tar.gz or from (darcs clone http://nethack4.org/projects/ayacc) . < 1586377530 740781 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relearned 'ayacc': ayacc is ais523's yacc parser generator implementation, get it from http://nethack4.org/pastebin/ayacc-2020-04.tar.gz or from (darcs clone http://nethack4.org/projects/ayacc) . < 1586377538 377823 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: the pastebin thing is only temporary, I think < 1586377540 86212 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the proper punctuation? or do I double-quote the first url? < 1586377541 11380 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it won't automatically update < 1586377545 243112 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should fix the error message so that it tells you to use darcs or to download the .tar.gz file. < 1586377549 841924 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, I said I temporarily pasted it there < 1586377563 623328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: no, I mean the NH4 pastebin < 1586377567 739798 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1586377572 699887 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I believe the proper quotes for a URL are <> < 1586377584 932795 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it's either double quotes or angle brackets, and I prefer double quotes < 1586377586 362334 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure on the proper quotes for a shell command, but I like «» because anything else seems potentially ambiguous < 1586377599 230817 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use parens for a shell command because that's actual shell syntax < 1586377631 79110 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn ayacc is ais523's yacc parser generator implementation, get it from (darcs clone http://nethack4.org/projects/ayacc) or a snapshot from "http://nethack4.org/pastebin/ayacc-2020-04.tar.gz". < 1586377634 474892 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relearned 'ayacc': ayacc is ais523's yacc parser generator implementation, get it from (darcs clone http://nethack4.org/projects/ayacc) or a snapshot from "http://nethack4.org/pastebin/ayacc-2020-04.tar.gz". < 1586377656 20757 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586377699 848124 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, parens are plausible, they'd be no-ops in most circumstances < 1586377712 133439 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although not in cases where the command would run differently in a subshell < 1586377724 575934 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a difference between «cd /tmp» and «(cd /tmp)» < 1586377997 919759 :Maris!9db570ae@client-112-174.eduroam.elte.hu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586378026 841519 :nona!9db570ae@client-112-174.eduroam.elte.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1586378357 514849 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not sure it even makes sense to embed a shell command that doesn't run in a subshell into non-shell text. is there a shared library version of the shell that can run in other processes to do that? < 1586378375 832954 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like for that cd thing < 1586378492 198788 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: you clearly haven't come across /bin/cd yet < 1586378509 808174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although admittedly that one was a joke < 1586378520 799471 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can embed perl or python that way and call their chdir functions and it affects the whole process < 1586378533 269933 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, if you're giving someone instructions < 1586378543 854347 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes sense to intersperse shell commands and text, doesn't it? < 1586378554 281091 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it can make sense < 1586378589 936281 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe someone made a literate shell syntax somewhere, where every line not prefixed with a > is a comment that is used only when you typeset the program < 1586378612 152338 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the embeddable shell library sounds more esoteric < 1586378701 901376 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do languages have their own literate syntaxes, anyway? < 1586378720 150254 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't it be more sensible to have a document format designed for literal programming, that can compile into a programming language? < 1586378726 768419 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't care about which one you're using < 1586378761 949760 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there is such a generic preprocessor I think, but the problem is that a lot of languages use most ascii characters, so there's no single quote format that's convenient for everything < 1586378777 999405 :baidicoot!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586378821 288008 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, prefixing lines with > is pretty convenient for everything < 1586378856 861614 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that can't possibly clash with anything in the program, the only potential clashes would be with the /document/ < 1586378870 105300 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure, but then you want to refer to code snippets in the documentation part, and that's what gets ugly in them, as well as in all the javadoc/doxygen syntaxes too < 1586378890 847824 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean, without them running? < 1586378892 82155 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also some preprocessors allow you to change some or all of the magic characters, see https://esolangs.org/wiki/SIMPLE_(preprocessor) < 1586378911 344740 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems to contradict the idea of literate programming a little < 1586378916 459742 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: usually yes, but I think CWEB even has some preprocessor macro thing that it can insert into code blocks or something < 1586378930 781831 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, I realised that POD is a sort of mix between literate and illiterate programming < 1586378937 530188 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know how this works, I don't really like literate programming so I never use it < 1586378938 908321 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of having a comment marker for non-code, or a code marker for code < 1586378952 634954 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :having comment blocks and comment headers, doxygen-like, that's fine < 1586378952 673058 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has separators that are placed between code and non-code (and vice versa) < 1586378965 223576 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and having a preprocessor can be interesting too < 1586378979 362357 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, as the topic was about parsing a while back, how often do you encounter regex libraries supporting streams of arbitrary objects and not just characters? and maybe regexes for tree-like structures, do those exist at all? < 1586379025 928383 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former definitely should exist, but maybe doesn't < 1586379038 56036 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what properties do these arbitrary objects have that distinguishes them from characters? < 1586379040 431262 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was actually thinking of a preprocessor variant of Consumer Society too. It needs three magic characters, but you can't find three convenient characters that work in all programming languages, so you'd use eg. `@$ in C but `?$ in python or something < 1586379067 101081 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think `$~ in rust < 1586379085 734300 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CWEB also has the commands to specify if the next section is a named program block, unnamed program block, or documentation; you don't need any prefix for each line. WEB does more preprocessing though, in order to implement things that Pascal doesn't do by itself (although some modern implementations will do those things automatically). < 1586379087 897432 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: there are regex libraries that support arbitrary byte streams < 1586379098 335581 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't @ unused in Rust at the moment? < 1586379102 434197 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1586379108 675655 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it got recycled? < 1586379108 895344 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: @ is used for bind patterns like in haskell < 1586379111 770477 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :also do you like parser combinators receiving arbitrary tokens and not just characters, and how much useful do you think is parser-driven tokenization (when the source can be tokenized differently based on what parser expects) < 1586379153 306885 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: parser-driven tokenization is required for some languages, if you want to have a separate parser and lexer < 1586379163 439180 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think combining the parser and lexer is a more interesting goal < 1586379165 688010 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: as in if let x@C(y,z) = t { # matches if t has the constructor C, and binds fresh variables x, y, z < 1586379181 768245 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ is used for metaprogramming though, also like in haskell < 1586379197 569640 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :parser-driven tokenization is really confusing, though, so it's normally avoided where it isn't required < 1586379208 641232 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Python has byte stream regexes too, though there’s a strange issue with named group names (non-ASCII names allowed for some reason) < 1586379220 586197 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think PCRE supports byte streams (it can also use UTF-8 though). < 1586379222 342784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an example of where it's used in practice is parsing precedence overrides in C-INTERCAL < 1586379266 839341 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIMPLE allows you to override each of its magic characters, but that doesn't help you too much if you want convenient syntax, because it has like a dozen magic characters < 1586379280 116321 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : parser-driven tokenization is really confusing, though, so it's normally avoided where it isn't required => I was afraid that would be the case, and that’s why it came to mind to ask, yeah < 1586379281 426065 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also hard to use for other reasons < 1586379318 170854 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: it's worth mentioning that INTERCAL's grammar is actually ambiguous < 1586379329 175909 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I could definitely claim that it's esoteric, but there is a little evidence that David wrote it to preprocess some HTML files that are non-esoteric originally, so it's not pure esoteric in purpose < 1586379333 609878 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the INTERCAL-72 manual has a note which basically just says "don't write programs that do that, it probably won't work" < 1586379390 932673 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are some programs which are technically unambiguous but need infinite lookahead to sort the "ambiguity" out, so C-INTERCAL can pick the wrong parse earlier on < 1586379408 675241 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the manual gives it explicit permission to do that, though, probably because the original implementation had the same problem!) < 1586379413 354140 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, INTERCAL was created when ambiguous FORTRAN was one of the most used programming languages, so it makes sense that it takes _that_ feature from it < 1586379430 490760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the ambiguity in FORTRAN? < 1586379446 564354 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think it's not actually ambiguous, just requires too much lookahead < 1586379450 141130 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure < 1586379472 640727 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : what properties do these arbitrary objects have that distinguishes them from characters? => for example they can be a countable set, but nonetheless with several known subsets and constants to use in matching. Though that still can be encoded via byte sequences, yeah < 1586379475 237048 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like in basic where it doesn't require whitespace, so DOFOO=2 is an assignment, DO FOO=2,3 is a loop head, but the space doesn't matter < 1586379482 884525 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the 2 can be a complicated expression < 1586379506 334639 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like A XOR 1 vs AX OR 1 in some old basic interpreters < 1586379508 89358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not used to FORTRAN program using multiple-character variable names :-D < 1586379521 802211 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what, they can have variable names up to 6 characters < 1586379526 591216 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: oh, there's an ambiguity like that in INTERCAL too! < 1586379528 778297 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's much better than basic, with its 2 characters < 1586379539 351745 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO READ OUT #1 versus DO REA DO UT #1 < 1586379561 759125 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one caught out a few lesser-known INTERCAL interpreters when people started golfing < 1586379562 152477 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you put parentheses to resolve the ambiguity? < 1586379577 847690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: INTERCAL doesn't use parentheses as precedence overrides < 1586379580 793831 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least some BASIC programs I have seen they only use one letter for variable names, sometimes followed by digits too < 1586379586 23743 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, I mean in BASIC < 1586379595 378968 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however it has two different precedence override syntaxes and you can always solve an ambiguity caused by one by using the other instead < 1586379598 168882 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait, how is that disambiguated? < 1586379603 489563 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what's UT? < 1586379611 768210 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it isn't but syntax errors are legal in INTERCAL < 1586379613 708066 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that work only when the statement is only ran when ignored? < 1586379616 97698 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1586379643 659342 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think all current interpreters arbitrarily ignore the DO in DO READOUT, at least if the statement is otherwise syntactically valid < 1586379645 696062 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, one letter is shorter < 1586379653 634298 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's unclear whether this is the correct course of action or not < 1586379662 889880 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's INTERCAL, the spec is not exactly the most unambiguous of things < 1586379692 510979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, at least one INTERCAL programmer has seriously argued that spaces should be permitted inside keywords and even inside numerical constants and variable names < 1586379701 120486 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that isn't widely implemented < 1586379707 904737 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : however it has two different precedence override syntaxes and you can always solve an ambiguity caused by one by using the other instead => esoteric < 1586379744 503155 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: Google's style guide suggests alternating between them to a) avoid any risk of an ambiguity that confuses the compiler, b) make it easier to read for a human < 1586379758 586192 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are they storing INTERCAL programs on 5-bit ticker tape? < 1586379781 590353 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1586379788 292136 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait, there’s a Google style guide for INTERCAL? :o < 1586379790 999574 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or transfer it by 5-bit modem? < 1586379795 252861 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact there's no real evidence that Google has written any more than one INTERCAL program < 1586379802 87942 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: it was part of their April Fools thing one year < 1586379827 155122 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tcl's return is... complicated. < 1586379837 195360 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that’s probably neat :F < 1586379839 668043 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D * < 1586379853 438004 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's offline nowadays, and the Internet Archive is down < 1586379859 847226 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a saved local copy but will need to check the license before rehosting it < 1586379878 757779 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :don’t worry, the sole existence of it is enough for me :) < 1586379909 701819 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don’t know enough INTERCAL to appreciate the style guide sufficiently < 1586379917 51752 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(maybe) < 1586379923 670572 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the funny thing is, their INTERCAL program had a bug (or at least a nonportability) < 1586379930 833660 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sent them a pull request and they gave me commit access < 1586379939 431056 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the repo ceased to exist shortly afterwards, when they closed the repo host < 1586379950 809652 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I was probably the only person outside Google to ever have commit access to it < 1586379991 511299 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, no explicit license on the repo :-( < 1586379995 531658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess it's default-all-rights-reserved < 1586380008 18849 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : so I was probably the only person outside Google to ever have commit access to it => hehe < 1586380074 75306 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, btw if someone uses Freesound.org, they had an anniversary a couple days ago < 1586380163 213261 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I found an archive of the program itself, on a Google host, with an apache2 license on it < 1586380169 932711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately the style guide is not in the same archive < 1586380224 669194 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus the license doesn't apply to it < 1586380395 135021 :baidicoot!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586380687 99331 :baidicoot!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586380879 718145 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1586381625 747031 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586381794 888274 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586381795 270407 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life > 1586382551 434125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Derpcode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70771&oldid=59452 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title < 1586383911 819565 :nona!9db570ae@client-112-174.eduroam.elte.hu QUIT :Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds) < 1586384938 999025 :baidicoot!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586385475 987125 :baidicoot!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586386254 83679 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.105.11.105.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1586386417 824692 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.0.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1586386642 985510 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.105.11.105.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586387508 834708 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:b909:387b:8115:a623 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1586387543 890843 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:b909:387b:8115:a623 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586388187 936681 :baidicoot!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586388314 768270 :baidicoot!~baidicoot@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1586388876 9738 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds > 1586392674 77599 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MyScript14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70772&oldid=70448 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+44) 10/* Functions */ > 1586393116 341218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Symbols14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70773&oldid=63960 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+5) 10/* Javascript */ fixing varName < 1586397903 975326 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1586403375 976597 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586404143 817974 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-171-136.cdrr.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1586404610 790217 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does a "cure heart" decrease your health from 121 to 100? > 1586413921 237523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70774&oldid=70689 5* 03Luke1337 5* (-362) 10Undo revision 53161 by [[Special:Contributions/Luke1337|Luke1337]] ([[User talk:Luke1337|talk]]) > 1586414432 903627 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Aheui14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70775&oldid=60033 5* 03Luke1337 5* (-120) 10This implementation claims to "fix" bugs but diff reveals it actually doesn't; fails test case; incorrect handling of ''; inelegant wraparound handling; outdated etc. < 1586416204 299979 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1586418628 747895 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: maybe it drains some of your general or average health to fix a problem specifically in your heart, and you should use that spell only if you have a risk of heart problems and can afford some of the health of the rest of your body, as in your liver? < 1586418701 513250 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like many real world medications, they can't magically add health to you, but they can redirect your body to focus to something more in exchange of something else, like in the tradeoff between antibiotics vs antihistamines. < 1586418789 648033 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Antibiotics can kill a bacterial infection, but in exchange you get worse allergies, so if you have both bacterial infections and allergies it's hard to cure, which is one of the big difficulty with organ transplantation. < 1586419079 302405 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586419285 805390 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1586419464 572344 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-234-164-48.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :neoletters has been updated with better arabic < 1586419770 291804 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-234-164-48.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also now includes two letters from the language "poliespo" invented by a esperantist murderer < 1586420058 679481 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-234-164-48.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically "overstruck p and w" and "overstruck t and v" < 1586420079 675665 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-234-164-48.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :encoded at  and  respectively > 1586420958 158829 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Salpynx14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70776&oldid=63150 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+104) 10/* Languages I have created */ Isthmus Cyclicus Crypticus > 1586421538 113477 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang talk:Community portal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70777&oldid=62050 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+292) 10/* (idea)Introducing SyntaxHighlight? */ Devil's advocate < 1586422231 405357 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586424892 922118 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586424986 616486 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1586424986 936685 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1586425703 730125 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586426216 118611 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.105.11.105.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1586426487 208715 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-171-136.cdrr.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586428880 378789 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a long time I've held this conjecture: the weakest computational class in which a self-interpreter can be written, is Turing-complete. < 1586428970 185212 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was based on the observation that there is no primite-recursive function which can interpret arbitrary primitive recursive functions, and other examples like that. < 1586428991 356158 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I've known this is just a conjecture, and I'm very interested in counter-examples. < 1586429035 823927 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think I found one the other day but I haven't looked into it yet. < 1586429126 94172 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://compilers.cs.ucla.edu/popl16/ < 1586429151 759874 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which claims to be an interpreter for F_omega, written in F_omega. < 1586429193 748711 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, I also understand that F_omega is strongly normalizing, which means F_omega programs always terminate, which means F_omega is *not* Turing-complete. < 1586429290 510370 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although what computability class F_omega represents, I don't know. I imagine that it is at least primitive recursive, and probably beyond primitive recursive to some degree. i.e. I would not be surprised if you could write the Ackermann function in F_omega. But again, I don't really know, yet. < 1586429430 903527 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know much about F_omega except that it's one corner of the lambda cube. Wikipedia doesn't say much about it other than "From a computing point of view, λω is extremely strong, and has been considered as a basis for programming languages", which I guess would be consistent with this result. < 1586429474 224639 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh sorry, that's lambda_omega, not F_omega < 1586429491 315228 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WP says even less about F_omega. < 1586429538 642539 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the heck is lambda_omega anyway. < 1586429616 806313 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, sounds like F_omega and lambda_omega could be the same thing? < 1586429624 637833 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well anyway. < 1586429695 596688 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I should try to read the papers. < 1586430732 766891 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1586431116 163130 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1586431439 611684 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:b909:387b:8115:a623 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1586431453 265114 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:187:4f56:6aea:a3ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1586435326 773892 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586435837 8335 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is another, much older result related to that conjecture I mentioned earlier, which is this: there's a CFL that's "CFL-complete" in the sense that it's as least as complex to parse it, as it is to parse any other CFL. But I don't know if that counts as "universal" in the same sense as a self-interpreter does. It's certainly similar in some ways though. < 1586435955 814191 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure that result was by Greibach in the 1970's though I can't find my notes on it atm. < 1586436473 776276 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha, found it: https://epubs.siam.org/doi/10.1137/0202025 < 1586436609 699441 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, the CFG constructed in that paper takes a string and a description of a CFG and accepts iff the given CFG accepts the string. < 1586436643 196828 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which sounds like a "universal CFG" to me. < 1586436978 46873 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1199 < 1586436978 965275 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1199: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas < 1586437068 9967 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586438091 333426 :kiedtl!~kiedtl@2601:148:280:4a0::c71a QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1586438224 57782 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586438280 759311 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric > 1586438436 13750 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07EGSHEL14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70778&oldid=68935 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (-10) 10fixed link < 1586438537 408979 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:187:4f56:6aea:a3ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I think I properly fixed the proof for the generalized W rule, see latest commit > 1586439511 537177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ESOPUNK14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70779&oldid=58027 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+2) 10/* Interpreters */ updated link < 1586439889 803286 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586439906 129113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : For a long time I've held this conjecture: the weakest computational class in which a self-interpreter can be written, is Turing-complete. ← what about "the language where all programs do nothing"? that can self-interpret < 1586439911 703789 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1586439914 910690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and has a very weak computational class < 1586439924 72946 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the question needs to be formulated more precisely, but am not sure how < 1586439958 333818 :birdt!~birdt@125-209-160-47.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1586440025 560090 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah that's probably just false... there seems nothing in a self-interpreter that makes a language more expressive than it already is. < 1586440036 323958 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can add it as a primitive if all else fails.) > 1586440064 563333 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ETalk14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70780&oldid=13379 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title < 1586440083 247046 :birdt!~birdt@125-209-160-47.dyn.iinet.net.au QUIT :Quit: Fucking off. < 1586440110 551646 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right, "weak language + self-interpreting primitive" makes for another good counterexample < 1586440143 711282 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was also going to mention things like Easy but I think that's naturally TC < 1586440156 91563 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that it embeds BF < 1586440304 136117 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying it's not an interesting question though. Also the question of what adding self-interpretation does to a model of computation may be interesting, too. For example, it seems that PR (primitive recursion) + interpreter for PR (with a sane encoding for functions that can be manipulated with primitive recursive functions) goes beyond PR (because it escapes the leveling restriction). < 1586440396 836625 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? olist < 1586440398 282047 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist is update notification for the webcomic Order of the Stick. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/ootslatest.html < 1586440403 35434 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmao what < 1586440437 139355 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Actually, if we call that PR'... PR' is not obviously capable of self-interpretation. I suspect it's not...) < 1586440500 17661 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: there's a few of those < 1586440550 928457 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? slist < 1586440552 178914 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Update notification for the webcomic Homestuck. < 1586440554 780402 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? smlist < 1586440556 65548 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-update notification for the webcomic Super Mega. < 1586440563 991345 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`listlist < 1586440566 908287 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFlist* \ aglist* \ bardsworthlist* \ bobadventureslist* \ calesyta2016list* \ danddreclist* \ don'taskdon'ttelllist@ \ dontaskdonttelllist* \ ehlist* \ emptylist* \ erflist* \ flist* \ idealist* \ ioccclist* \ keenlist* \ list* \ listen* \ listlist* \ llist* \ makelist* \ makelistlist* \ minimalist* \ mlist* \ olist* \ pbflist* \ slist* \ smlist* \ stylist* \ testlist* \ xkcdwhatiflist* \ ysaclist* < 1586440577 455409 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos PRIVMSG #esoteric :`listlistlist < 1586440578 219468 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :listlistlist? No such file or directory < 1586440589 257413 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, stylist < 1586440612 347877 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? calesyta2016list < 1586440613 564028 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :calesyta2016list? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1586440620 582655 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one can probably be removed :P < 1586440628 456801 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? mlist < 1586440629 793864 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :mlist? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1586440650 712251 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hbrl mlist < 1586440651 396983 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :hbrl? No such file or directory < 1586440655 973901 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1586440660 365757 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hurl ../bin/mlist < 1586440661 425278 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/log/tip/bin/mlist < 1586440777 463719 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: in "the language where all programs do nothing", all programs are self-interpreters. You could add "non-trivial" to exclude this. < 1586440885 614803 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"mlist" is obscure... https://esolangs.org/logs/2013-03-03.html#lRj ... I don't get it. < 1586440908 319969 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ais523 made that point; I actually made it non-trivial. < 1586440913 918643 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And much like how we can forbid "cheating quines" like 10 LIST 10 in BASIC, we can forbid any language that has a "self-interpret instruction". < 1586440935 571658 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's hard though < 1586440949 957551 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any language where you have a self-interpret instruction, but it's not *obviously* a self-interpret instruction, is fair game < 1586441021 741963 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I was alluding to the technical meaning of "non-trivial" like it's used in Rice's theorem, but yes, ok, whatever, it's not important < 1586441039 273167 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh sorry yes < 1586441041 783136 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a huge spectrum between strange machines that accidentally can interpret your language to something like a bytecode interpreter to interpreting the language itself. < 1586441049 299688 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant to reply to ais523 < 1586441094 293406 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arguably you want to draw the line between the first two categories, and that seems to be very hard to capture formally to me. < 1586441118 325586 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be interested to know what languages F_omega can and can't recognize < 1586441154 336231 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It must be more than PR, but less than RE < 1586441167 26238 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? F_ω < 1586441169 875211 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :F_ω? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1586441175 784398 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I should probably know this) < 1586441193 726942 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :eg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_F#System_F%CF%89 < 1586441287 561100 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, there's also an implementation of Coq in Coq, which (assuming it's legit and not cheating somehow) suggests a similar thing might stand for that other corner of the lambda cube < 1586441428 568458 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: in "http://www.madore.org/~david/weblog/d.2017-08-18.2460.html" the article that defines the (0) esolang, David Madore explains how you should define "self-interpreter" in a language that can't self-interpret in a traditional sense, like one that has only the power of primitive recursive < 1586441508 475155 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, if you restrict (0) to integer inputs, it's exactly as powerful as primitive recursive (BLoop), but he needs more generality than that there < 1586441617 541584 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :namely he wants to know what the easiest way is to prove that certain of those languages are equipowerful, and their computational complexity isn't as well known as the primitive recursive or the turing complete thing, and the only proof he knows is a really difficult one via such a full interpreter, which is annoying < 1586442108 830862 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Does it show that though? You'd have to check what kind of axioms the formalization uses. < 1586442357 280548 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: That's what I meant by "assuming it's legit". I was in fact assuming it was invoking some kind of cheat, until I came across the F_omega self-interpreter paper - now I'm not so sure. < 1586442414 366148 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm not convinced the F_omega thing isn't cheating somehow too. But I really just need to sit down and read it. < 1586442529 75272 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1586443116 427778 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Wait though. Say you have an interpreter for language L, and L is in computational class C. Then you add a self-interpret instruction to L to obtain L'. L' might no longer be in computational class C. So you haven't shown anything about computational class C by doing this. < 1586443142 894583 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This is in response to your "That's probably just false".) < 1586443150 61051 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Been down that path (see PR' above) < 1586443187 666579 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously the self-interpreter should take itself into account. This /may/ push it into RE territory. < 1586443231 583793 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because at least naively it involves some sort of fixed point) < 1586443274 736147 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, yes. I was thinking "add to L an instruction that interprets L programs", that's not quite the same thing < 1586443322 993536 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there are lots of knobs to tweak here. > 1586443644 873327 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Element14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70781&oldid=69991 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (-20) 10/* Interpreter */ fixed link < 1586444168 444547 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-171-136.cdrr.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1586444186 827714 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-171-136.cdrr.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586444723 223078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it hard to see how Coq could self-interpret, assuming it's consistent < 1586444735 942098 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's consistent it can't typecheck itself, thus it can't prove a Coq program is total < 1586444751 46788 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this means that you can't prove that the self-interpreter itself exits, so the program as a whole won't typecheck < 1586444861 870693 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't type checking still decidable < 1586444871 60335 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in CoC) < 1586444907 541926 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yes, but you need something more powerful than the CoC itself to decide it < 1586444924 933332 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: see above, there's an alternate definition for self-interpreter that works for self-interpreters in languages like BLoop > 1586444939 164045 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Asm2bf14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70782&oldid=70106 5* 03Palaiologos 5* (+540) 10up-to-date stuff < 1586444966 293626 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I'm really slow at reading French though < 1586444968 913412 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: basically you define a function that takes a program and a number, and the function interprets the program except it stops after as many steps as that number < 1586444973 561393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and need to look up words sometimes < 1586444976 690320 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the number is called fuel < 1586444983 284948 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, me too < 1586444986 509158 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: ah right, the "run this program for this many steps" function < 1586444992 533420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's much easier to implement than a true self-interpreter < 1586445012 273589 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"easier" hehe < 1586445017 234904 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, do the inductive definitions add power? < 1586445020 609249 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: aren't there six general-purpose registers now? < 1586445030 253595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the article still says four, and then names six of them < 1586445030 253682 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes yes < 1586445035 107295 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have overlooked that < 1586445040 126114 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1586445055 793834 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.228.187 JOIN :#esoteric > 1586445062 217652 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Asm2bf14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70783&oldid=70782 5* 03Palaiologos 5* (-1) 10 < 1586445065 136521 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :done < 1586445069 463956 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's OK, I just thought I'd let you know the mistake while you're around to fix it < 1586445074 871635 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, thanks < 1586445080 488935 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really appreciate it < 1586445094 912392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a long time ago I was writing my own asm-for-BF, and a gcc backend to targe it < 1586445105 389399 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the code has been lost, I think, due to gcc being too large to fit in my backups < 1586445110 235335 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, what kind of ISA did you have? < 1586445114 983360 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I remember I stalled trying to find a good multiplication algorithm < 1586445115 728614 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I' < 1586445132 463616 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :m going to either for Watcom C or my own compiler < 1586445143 801414 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ISA was very bf-specific, it contained instructions like tadd x, y (which sets x to x + y and y to 0) < 1586445158 126382 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I've made a c=>brainfuck compiler before supporting C89, but it outputs too big binaries to be reasonable < 1586445161 392822 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the stack pointer was magical < 1586445164 309207 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1586445164 990566 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.105.11.105.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586445174 287371 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you actually dont need a stack pointer < 1586445177 594846 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :believe me or not < 1586445185 49731 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, gcc wasn't as flexible as I wanted, it made too many assumptions which weren't correct in a BF context < 1586445195 418405 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I'm working with Watcom C for a while now < 1586445200 551904 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: I think you do if you want to work with gcc's backend < 1586445207 653078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite hard to get pre-existing C compilers to implement recursion without one < 1586445216 351320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even though it is of course theoretically possible, they just aren't set up to use alternative methods) < 1586445224 160399 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :outputs simple yet beautifully small 8086 assembly < 1586445233 217740 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a push/pop only stack for now < 1586445239 954579 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I plan or adding effective adresses soon < 1586445251 743837 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can like do [sp-5] to get 5th element from the top < 1586445252 49870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the stack pointer as a non-accessible register < 1586445254 418195 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I did it like that too < 1586445257 193110 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sp isn't actually a register < 1586445264 854924 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't exist and the value is unknown < 1586445269 466567 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet it still works ;) < 1586445276 432255 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had 64 general-purpose registers because general-purpose registers are cheap in BF < 1586445287 952252 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I was targeting a BF interpreter that used RLE optimization internally) < 1586445298 826252 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've split the memory into permagen with registers and temps, stack of definable size and peek/poke taperam < 1586445324 145829 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm working on general fixes involving infrastructure to make it more welcoming to beginners (although there aren't any) < 1586445339 407397 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my split was GP registers, followed by interleaved stack and heap and temps < 1586445350 263491 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1586445357 790634 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(most of the temps were for navigational purposes, to remember where you were when moving between GP registers and stack/heap) < 1586445358 139023 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my stack and taperam are actually separate from each other < 1586445366 789916 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1586445377 919232 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I remember my permagen is just 20 brainfuck cells big < 1586445382 455139 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it supports very complex operations < 1586445397 241591 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and soon I plan on creating a virtual machine that would hint the brainfuck interpreter about the assembly code so you can debug asm2bf eaisly and test your programs < 1586445420 486558 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vaguely remember a point in the code where I multiplied something by 128 to determine whether it was odd or even < 1586445426 109706 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I assume I was targetting 8-bit wrapping < 1586445428 49796 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1586445432 696004 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1586445444 654311 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my ISA assumes 16-bit cells, but it runs just fine on smaller cells aswell < 1586445451 5830 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and on bignum cells too < 1586445472 969552 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it becomes a bit hairy if you run an 8bit interpreter, because you can index just 256b of taperam < 1586445505 64063 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I've got a bconv program that translated 16-bit compiliant bf code to 8bit compiliant one < 1586445508 970057 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used multiple consecutive cells to hold addresses < 1586445512 27223 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like real CPUs do < 1586445529 191655 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ we don't use segment:offset adressing since 90's :p < 1586445540 182411 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a relic of the past, 64-bit adress lines are here < 1586445553 602714 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I've implemented segments as well < 1586445556 611111 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for god knows what reason < 1586445558 90781 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, we still use multiple consecutive bytes to hold our 64-bit addresses > 1586445558 389187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RarVM14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70784&oldid=68928 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title < 1586445566 263567 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but you've got cells in brainfuck < 1586445573 920557 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, now I'm wondering what the fastest algorithm to seek to a cell by number is < 1586445576 612591 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a cell doesn't map to a byte really < 1586445598 919686 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can look it up in my code < 1586445604 676100 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd want to drag the number with you rather than going back each time to decrement it < 1586445612 231756 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1586445627 901948 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah possibly < 1586445636 42538 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'll make a VM that will execute these programs faster < 1586445650 241894 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't bother me at all, because it works as brainfuck and VM is just a performance perk < 1586445663 299968 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same will go with my to-malbolge-private-compiler-suite < 1586445715 633360 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I plan on implementing aliases rn < 1586445731 76280 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like this: https://pastebin.com/raw/xdEqY8x4 < 1586445744 390046 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :another thing I've been thinking about is SSA compilation of counter machines (including balanced parts of brainfuck programs) < 1586445747 763658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or arguably "decompilation" < 1586445756 495762 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aa right < 1586445760 32241 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once got interested in this < 1586445767 251623 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but never got to creating such a tool to perform this < 1586445789 192001 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I laid a lot of requirements (like the brainfuck to 2/3 register counter machine compiler) < 1586445816 465038 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no sorry < 1586445823 720817 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started, but got stuck because I didn't have clear enough rules for what was allowed to refer to what and what changed in the PHI nodes < 1586445824 757448 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant inf cell brainfuck to 3 cell brainfuck < 1586445833 588448 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats a phi node < 1586445841 573235 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nethack4.org/pastebin/ssapmmn.tar.gz if you (or anyone else) is interested < 1586445858 61621 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: well, the point of SSA is that nothing ever changes, you create new variables rather than overwriting old ones < 1586445871 293012 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if the program contains any loops, at some point you have to overwrite an old variable with a new value < 1586445877 803611 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you only have finitely many < 1586445889 987693 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good old C code utilizing lex/yacc < 1586445893 324886 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I wanted to see today < 1586445898 205579 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a phi node is one of the tricks used to do that, it defines a variable to mean one of two different things depending on the history of the code's control flow < 1586445903 201373 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :love it already without reading the code < 1586445917 125044 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you want to analize the control flow history < 1586445928 530555 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I understand it well enough to implement it correctly :-D < 1586445951 922875 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it < 1586445955 439259 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s massive though < 1586445970 404568 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you view things at the asm level, it's as simple as putting a phi node at a goto target and checking to see whether you got there via goto or via falling into it < 1586445982 253361 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I wonder is there a C interpreter for rle-based brainfuck already < 1586445985 748568 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or I'll have to code it myself late < 1586445991 213469 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are loads, I think < 1586445998 268388 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because rn I'm decompressing the code and then running it but it's stupid very < 1586446002 240629 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem being that there are /so many/ BF interpreters that finding the right one is hard < 1586446008 593908 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1586446049 763494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could probably just modify a BF Joust interpreter, RLE is part of the spec in BF Joust (although timing is also part of the spec so they will loop over RLEd sections one command at a time) < 1586446061 136025 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bigger problem would be finding an optimizing interpreter that takes RLE as input < 1586446242 222062 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been meaning at some point to redo SSAPMMN but with more rigorous rules for how the internal asm-like format works, and accepting languages like BF, The Waterfall Model, etc., not just PMMN < 1586447450 759037 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Bill Buzbee's retargeting a C compiler to Magic-1 is like that. Magic-1 has an accumulator instr set, sort of like 6502, so he lied to the compiler that there are 8 gp registers, but those are actually in memory < 1586447458 816165 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.homebrewcpu.com/ < 1586447503 270614 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :only Magic-1 does not have zero-page addressing > 1586447513 71617 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07EnilKode14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70785&oldid=69288 5* 03EnilKoder 5* (-41) 10 < 1586447904 913833 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I've seen that going on < 1586447908 833378 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite normal < 1586447920 521811 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when implementing Subleq to Brainfuck translator/interpreter (yes) < 1586447924 50942 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I did < 1586448661 852949 :diverger!~div@185.246.211.104 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1586448807 127365 :diverger!~div@165.231.253.150 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586449419 308031 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1586450468 585730 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.179 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1586451363 400495 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Write error: Connection reset by peer < 1586451409 846086 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1586452323 779036 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586452441 739895 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1586453317 318620 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:187:4f56:6aea:a3ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1586453379 3156 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5876:4e1c:874:9a27 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586455105 806478 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1586455177 117875 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric > 1586455179 69785 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07First.go14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70786&oldid=55956 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title < 1586455522 779215 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/AIT/ is what I've been playing with (Kolmogorov complexity with open (self-delimited) inputs). The equivalent of pairup is 853 bits at the moment; I think that's not too bad compared to the 657. < 1586455543 205299 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for KP) < 1586455597 761251 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: I'll look at the proof over the weekend. I think I want to have a look at the April Ponder This challenge first. < 1586455805 152789 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5876:4e1c:874:9a27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should look at that Ponder too < 1586456100 749583 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: reboting < 1586456240 144888 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: you might enjoy https://int-e.eu/~bf3/AIT/I1_c.lam which is a 71 bit length function (which is a bit shorter than what I've found in the AIT repo). < 1586456272 876970 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, make that 69 < 1586458229 845347 :ARCUN!ade6811e@173.230.129.30 JOIN :#esoteric > 1586458485 980146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FuckbeEs14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70787&oldid=53228 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title < 1586458963 775269 :noomy!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony NICK :MoonyTheDwarf < 1586458985 122502 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister NICK :kmcallister < 1586458987 546208 :kmcallister!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister NICK :kmc < 1586458987 606136 :MoonyTheDwarf!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony NICK :noomy < 1586459102 446329 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: if the registers are actually in memory, why not have lots of them? register spills are a disaster in such an architecture because you're copying things from one memory location to another for no good reason < 1586459119 524294 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I'd say otherwise < 1586459122 200347 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and providing additional registers in such an architecture is very cheap < 1586459151 243053 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in RLE'd BF, providing additional registers is actually free because seeking to a fixed address has a constant cost regardless of the distance < 1586459166 771267 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean if you're keen on making zillions of registers, then go ahead and index the whole tape < 1586459176 750147 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but remember that you need a stack and taperam going < 1586459184 370113 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this makes things hairy < 1586459188 754101 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not operate on memory references then < 1586459191 229206 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of registers < 1586459200 15859 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :add [0], [3] < 1586459217 261228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the memory addresses have fixed locations on the tape then that's fine < 1586459224 385033 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't see a reason why they necessarily would < 1586459228 636629 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can be arbitrary aswell < 1586459243 864282 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you're feeling eccentric enough, they can be nested < 1586459270 458025 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I can see an argument for a zero-register construction < 1586459285 849606 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't see an argument for a construction that has a number of general-purpose registers that's greater than zero, but small, though < 1586459320 170015 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got 6 registers now < 1586459325 970864 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think it's surely enough, at least for the time being < 1586459338 946381 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure I'll extend it the later day, but remember that RLE'd brainfuck ain't a standard < 1586459356 267716 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've gone exactly through the same mindset as you, so my C compiler produces a 12MB brainfuck binary :v) < 1586459372 74290 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*"binary" <- not a binary actually, just the output file < 1586459409 863237 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I plan on adding a register or two for effective adresses < 1586459417 875145 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a couple of registers for the floating point operations < 1586459461 300159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you implement multiplication, btw? just a repeated addition loop? < 1586459474 380738 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :part of my motivation for using an 8-bit tape was to prevent operations like that being very slow < 1586459481 91764 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1[d+1-]d[2[1+e+2-]e[2+e-]d-] < 1586459498 844360 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, that looks like a repeated addition loop to me < 1586459501 904753 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I preserve the registers aswell < 1586459504 27894 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I felt that that wouldn't have the sort of performance I wanted < 1586459513 466793 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what more do you want, I doubt one can do something about it < 1586459525 164294 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it's actually possible to do that in a better way < 1586459529 314538 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll happily learn how < 1586459559 380824 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure you can do something about it, either < 1586459568 718035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the point at which I gave up on my C-to-BF compiler < 1586459575 696939 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i couldn't find a solution to this that I was satisfied with < 1586459602 913208 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc, optimizing BF compilers will recognise that sort of multiply and optimize it out anyway < 1586459610 94381 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe it isn't a real issue in practice < 1586459636 309179 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :>worrying about brainfuck code performance < 1586459640 213942 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1586459665 146185 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone here who could support an arxiv submission of an Egel paper of mine? < 1586459670 952544 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why can't I worry about BF performance? < 1586459689 555912 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you obviously can < 1586459691 257530 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :spruit11: oerjan is the first name that comes to mind, but isn't here at the moment < 1586459694 105141 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't find a point for this < 1586459710 102002 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I contact oerjan? < 1586459714 733218 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, it would rather depend on how eso the paper was < 1586459714 797834 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :use @tell < 1586459732 84782 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie might be able to? not sure < 1586459739 559553 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean - brainfuck isn't the best language for writing at least mildly performant applications in it's pure form < 1586459749 282600 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to do something more interesting and fast you have to extend it < 1586459753 884374 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's a defeat of the purpose < 1586459760 312510 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: I see programming as communication, you're trying to tell a computer (or another human) what you mean < 1586459764 586738 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan Could, or would, you be so kind to support an arxiv submission of a paper I wrote? < 1586459764 786687 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1586459776 224778 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks people. < 1586459794 531359 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that allows for optimization at both ends of the computation, both for the person writing it, and for the computer understanding it < 1586459805 634618 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that's right, and that's a good mindset < 1586459818 740502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF is a particularly simple form of programming, but a fully general one, so getting humans to be able to express ideas more efficiently, and computers to be able to understand and run them more efficiently, seems valuable < 1586459832 87114 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OISC? < 1586459836 818260 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :simpler form of programming < 1586459849 844246 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I care about OISCs too! < 1586459864 148137 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to have a very similliar mindset on programming back in the day < 1586459873 532604 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, most of the esolangs I care about are either a) simpler than BF in some senses, or else b) particularly interesting ways of conveying information about what you mean < 1586459901 988018 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1586459908 230149 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, which languages? < 1586459927 624841 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brachylog is one of my favourite languages < 1586459943 441447 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gets further than most languages at allowing you to express the problem, rather than having to describe a solution to it < 1586459979 106685 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and brachylog solves the problem, right? < 1586459999 966299 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, given a description of the problem, it attempts to determine a solution to it without being explicitly told an algorithm < 1586460004 611979 :ARCUN!ade6811e@173.230.129.30 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586460009 732447 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't perfect at doing this, but it's better than most non-esolangs and almost all esolangs < 1586460025 925579 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1586460027 492258 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this has made it a particularly good language for programming competitions < 1586460030 424991 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's get to normal Prolog for a second < 1586460043 837305 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normal Prolog is also pretty good at this, but it's rather low-level < 1586460058 511805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you often have to pay attention to how it works internally to make your programs work < 1586460071 889627 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there some higher-level extensions? < 1586460089 690252 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, Brachylog incorporates at least one (a constraint solver for integer arithmetic) < 1586460097 324134 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that not necessairly make the engine create an O(N^N^N^N^N^N) solution < 1586460097 588037 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, its standard library just understands more concepts < 1586460108 462189 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, performance is, of course, a huge issue when doing this sort of thing :-D < 1586460123 690045 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, what about a factorial < 1586460131 899109 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of algorithm will it come up < 1586460136 838931 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in terms of complexity) < 1586460153 962347 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! brachylog 100ḟ < 1586460155 742747 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ \ true. < 1586460158 264986 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! brachylog 100ḟw < 1586460159 633248 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :93326215443944152681699238856266700490715968264381621468592963895217599993229915608941463976156518286253697920827223758251185210916864000000000000000000000000 \ true. < 1586460167 750322 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm starting to find the potential for this < 1586460169 319840 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is, Brachylog already knows what a factorial is < 1586460177 235032 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unlike Prolog) < 1586460188 80299 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, for example one could solve like logical riddles or something like that using prolog < 1586460191 18959 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's actually amazing < 1586460211 631804 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it would be ten times more amazing if it fit on my TI-83+ < 1586460236 639813 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! brachylog 100⟦₁×w < 1586460238 20789 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :93326215443944152681699238856266700490715968264381621468592963895217599993229915608941463976156518286253697920827223758251185210916864000000000000000000000000 \ true. < 1586460247 620012 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, that's without using the builtin < 1586460257 220085 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"product of all the numbers from 1 to 100 inclusive" < 1586460299 966887 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! brachylog ⟦₁×93326215443944152681699238856266700490715968264381621468592963895217599993229915608941463976156518286253697920827223758251185210916864000000000000000000000000&w < 1586460301 419260 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :100 \ true. < 1586460309 311466 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1586460310 573369 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, you can't do /that/ from the definition in most languages < 1586460316 80261 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the performance still seemed to be pretty good < 1586460326 605574 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! brachylog ⟦₁×93326215443944152681699238856266700490715968264381621468592963895217599993229915608941463976156518286253697920827223758251185210916864000000000000000000000001&w < 1586460332 907357 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just curious as to whether it realises that's impossible < 1586460339 93732 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you write a program that calculates factorial of 1,000 and displays how many digits does it have? < 1586460340 243000 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is one of the biggest problems with Brachylog < 1586460355 872267 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to "test" something < 1586460363 202532 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1586460365 62607 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly on tio.run, I won't kill HackEso xD < 1586460365 787066 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! brachylog 1000ḟlw < 1586460370 777489 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :2568 \ true. < 1586460375 887211 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1586460399 222996 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm basically 100% sure it actually calculated every digit, then counted them < 1586460406 348136 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than doing anything to optimize the calculation < 1586460449 480873 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brachylog's biggest downside is that it the algorithms it uses look only locally, it knows what it's doing for each individual command in the program but looks at them in order and doesn't handle any sort of long-range optimization < 1586460531 490557 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the syntax takes a bit of getting used to, too, but that's common with esolangs < 1586460559 72896 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brachylog: Real time: 1.940 s C: Real time: 0.286 s < 1586460566 376555 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factorial of 1000 < 1586460576 536669 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean that's understandable that it took around 10 times more time < 1586460585 234095 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's very convenient to write < 1586460601 440962 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what bignum library is the C program using? < 1586460603 58666 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I wouldn't make long term computations in it < 1586460605 340019 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd expect that to dominate the time < 1586460607 468621 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no bignum library < 1586460623 776771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, then the C program is probably just calculating the low 32/64 bits < 1586460625 522930 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wrote a tiny multiplication algorithm over char array < 1586460632 426467 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not this foolish :p < 1586460638 662374 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so a handrolled bignum library < 1586460644 538274 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's literally 20 lines long < 1586460650 397385 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems about right < 1586460660 442359 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :numba's stored as base256 < 1586460710 886154 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it's clear to me that a "more intelligent" brachylog-alike could realise that 100!+1 is not the factorial of any number (e.g. by realising the factorial function is increasing) < 1586460734 983741 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt one would put time in this < 1586460740 54100 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but our current declarative languages aren't up to the task of realising that and will keep brute-forcing possibilities for ever larger numbers forever < 1586460745 468582 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd train an AI to solve these riddles for me because it's more probable < 1586460765 637446 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, /isn't/ this training an AI to solve riddles for you, in a way? < 1586460778 732326 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't train an AI < 1586460782 436213 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just feed it data :p < 1586460794 566653 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the AI has been trained manually by prolog developers < 1586460798 569663 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's kinda pants > 1586460817 257551 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Galapagos 5* 10New user account < 1586460820 977783 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, hmm < 1586460830 336897 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a difference between strong AI, which figures things out itself from training data < 1586460840 809670 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and weak AI which has more things hardcoded and is more specialised to one particular job < 1586460842 357801 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know nothing about AI < 1586460849 951289 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't speak the language of aliens to me < 1586460895 910866 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I knew more about theory of CS < 1586460911 571090 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but never got around to learning it, because the sources are a bit uncomprehendable < 1586460923 766052 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even if the sources, there was no one to learn me it < 1586460927 548650 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*teach < 1586460937 962478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, CS theory is my job < 1586460943 994934 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a very big field, and I'm only interested in parts of it < 1586460947 852453 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't you a harp tuner? < 1586460959 216866 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I swear someone has been harp tuner over there < 1586460964 854930 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`q harp < 1586460966 453869 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :1280) hmm, I just remembered that I was formally trained to tune harps < 1586460977 125618 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a, only formally trained, ok < 1586460977 444380 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: I was formally trained to tune harps, that doesn't mean it's my current job (or indeed that I've ever done it for money) < 1586460989 818620 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more just a random fact < 1586460997 975901 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine :p < 1586461024 677889 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how exactly do you monetise your CS knowledge > 1586461034 156655 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70788&oldid=70774 5* 03Galapagos 5* (+254) 10/* Introductions */ < 1586461044 157050 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my case, it's more like monetising my esolang knowledge < 1586461049 747484 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1586461053 141121 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when a CS researcher comes up with an idea for a new style of programming < 1586461056 520181 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I found a way to do that < 1586461058 99788 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they need someone to test it out and see if it could work < 1586461077 597372 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, well, there aren't that many people who are up for programming in newly invented languages, especially if they have to implement the language too < 1586461089 270972 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're essentially a guinea pig for CS researchers? < 1586461100 14213 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, or was; my current job's drifted away a bit from that < 1586461109 823805 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one can't write Brainfuck-based casino software forever :p < 1586461134 234647 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? kspalaiologos < 1586461135 503863 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos is a brainfuck addict and a late night Perl hacker. He's secretly disassembling brainfuck code for a casino that lost the source code. Apparently knows the secret of Malbolge. < 1586461137 89006 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still here < 1586461149 602006 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, this implies that the casino compiled to BF < 1586461154 499567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which seems like an odd thing to do < 1586461166 975870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(otherwise, their BF code would /be/ the source code) < 1586461184 842439 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes thats right < 1586461202 968091 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they didn't tell me the name of tool < 1586461205 101753 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seemed decent < 1586461216 9592 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :supossedly the developer took it with him lol < 1586461225 156214 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the idea that BF is fulfilling a similar role in industry as BANCStar < 1586461241 834370 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or I should say "commerce", casinos aren't very industrial < 1586461249 149421 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this < 1586461251 518280 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BANCStar? < 1586461267 214443 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically a (really terrible) bytecode format that was used as the backend for some sort of commercial GUI program < 1586461279 742868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the frontend that compiled to it was bad enough that people started programming in BANCStar directly < 1586461298 710512 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmao < 1586461299 716790 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's generally considered one of the worst programming languages to exist, other than ones which were intentionally created as bad (maybe even then, because it has less of an excuse) < 1586461301 631141 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why was it invented < 1586461314 390329 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about COBOL or JavaScript < 1586461317 650630 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're terrible too < 1586461318 862251 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is that because it was a commercial product, nobody seems quite clear on the specs < 1586461325 137753 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is way worse than COBOL or JavaScript < 1586461341 930475 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :impossible < 1586461344 502300 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me look it up < 1586461352 643324 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/BANCStar < 1586461366 871751 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmao what the hell is this < 1586461370 613638 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the application of this < 1586461407 958007 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather program in Malbolge < 1586461430 329567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : BANCStar is a specialist computer programming language for financial applications.[citation needed] The language is an internal language for the National Financial Computer Services, Inc (later Broadway & Seymour) BANCStar application, which is software to automate the operations of a bank branch < 1586461444 687122 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that before < 1586461453 402143 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is there something like specific < 1586461458 85600 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a name of software written in it < 1586461460 924408 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a screenshot, photo < 1586461508 46715 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, BANCStar was the name of the software written in it, but became attached to the language itself somehow < 1586461521 94497 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language itself was originally called "screen code" but it isn't a very memorable or searchable name < 1586461543 629850 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was intended to write user interfaces for banks, we don't know all that much beyond that though < 1586461580 720912 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I was the guy who wrote it < 1586461581 619226 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some things have been figured out by looking at the existing programs, although some things are unknown, and some people (including myself) disagree about the ideas of what some of the commands are supposed to mean. < 1586461596 380568 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't admit I made it < 1586461621 288401 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it makes /slightly/ more sense as a bytecode format than a programming language, but it's clearly terribly designed for either role < 1586461692 388953 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I knew malbolge before < 1586461696 89914 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, how to program it < 1586461699 546631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, your casino programmer probably compiled to BF in the hope that the casino wouldn't then be able to fire them < 1586461702 785565 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :without willingness to remove my eyes < 1586461705 946341 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because nobody would be able to do anything with the resulting code < 1586461719 587129 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they wanted to have a Brainfuck or Malbolge solution < 1586461724 280156 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because security standards :v) < 1586461726 310750 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe BANCStar has a similar purpose? it looks like the sort of thing that would only be created by a large collaboration though < 1586461743 964628 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think using BF or Malbolge would be security through obscurity more than anything else < 1586461765 870336 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :raw uncommented BF isn't that much harder to understand than raw uncommented machine code < 1586461809 89545 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think BANCStar was legitimate, and may have been originally designed to write the code directly but the designer decided it wasn't very good for that purpose and so made the screen generator instead and then never documented the code. < 1586461821 799884 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha ha < 1586461825 364619 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now tell me < 1586461829 86097 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I wrote this in malbolge < 1586461839 547610 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course I don't know, so, I just guess.) < 1586461840 265617 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :would there be a person willing to reverse enginner it? < 1586461846 893735 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's this about a casino using bf? < 1586461848 671699 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just for a financial gain of few hundred points < 1586461860 609507 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: there are definitely people who would try just for the challenge, I'm not sure how far they'd get before giving up < 1586461863 210909 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pounds < 1586461869 900288 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1586461871 574950 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that I believe that Malbolge is considerably easier to read than it is to write < 1586461896 691051 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the hardest part in Malbolge is making everything fit together so that it's encryption-stable and keeping control of the C and D pointers < 1586461900 622914 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, a bit like that < 1586461905 234377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a reader doesn't have to do that, only a writer < 1586461918 626339 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're missing a very important thing:p < 1586461940 407181 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a decent safe malbolge program would be around 10MB < 1586461949 831523 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :consume around 4GB of RAM I presume < 1586461956 363322 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of it would be no-ops, though, wouldn't it? < 1586461961 5173 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong < 1586461974 502182 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well, you can't put a stable no-op everywhere < 1586461987 980221 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they would act a bit like these < 1586461991 830495 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess much of it is code that doesn't do anything but is not obviously a no-op < 1586461992 749039 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they wouldn't be these < 1586462006 676198 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need to distinguish malbolge code and a bit optimized malbolge code < 1586462079 562721 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a good point, though, distinguishing padding from useful code is going to be hard without prior knowledge of which is which < 1586462128 298286 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1586462135 934424 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes you unroll the loop < 1586462139 233202 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's viable < 1586462162 165812 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can view some malbolge samples and get a taste of this < 1586462171 952975 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/KrzysztofSzewczyk/codegolf-submissions < 1586462175 870364 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be around 30 of them < 1586462180 812358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't found a good environment for reading Malbolge yet < 1586462193 537864 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :raw Malbolge is hard to read, normalized Malbolge doesn't contain all the information you'd need and doesn't really help much < 1586462203 57693 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are normalized malbolge translators < 1586462206 399797 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1586462237 398012 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbh I didn't write any RE tooling for malbolge < 1586462239 345427 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just compilers < 1586462260 645467 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple small abstraction layers < 1586462268 150262 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :peephole opt < 1586462329 892270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, something like https://github.com/KrzysztofSzewczyk/codegolf-submissions/blob/master/60106.mb, I can tell that it's pretty NOP-heavy even without normalizing < 1586462374 530875 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that appears to be not Malbolge, but rather HTML-escaped Malbolge < 1586462400 303783 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586462407 380389 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not everywhere, some lines aren't escaped < 1586462438 11537 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm curious as to how that happened < 1586462456 778650 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1586462457 963593 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1586462479 85038 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I genuinely have no idea < 1586462524 522506 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there aren't this many nop slides cmon < 1586462533 287741 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they aren't long slides < 1586462544 951672 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more, you have 20 commands in a row and perhaps 14/15 of them are nops < 1586462568 564139 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think, at least, it's a pain working out which of the 8 sequences a given reverse-ASCII sequence is < 1586462589 336359 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must be one of the few people who tries to sightread Malbolge, and it's mostly just to confirm it as Malbolge and get a feeling of the shape of the code < 1586462604 934089 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1586462606 680037 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't gotten very far programming in it, I mostly just help beginners on Stack Overflow < 1586462617 947344 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you help beginners program malbolge on stackoverflow < 1586462618 765540 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmao < 1586462627 882249 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also brb I'll be back in a second < 1586462629 3288 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the idea is to fix whatever misconception they had that was making them think it was easier than it actually is, then they give up) < 1586462640 313467 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1586462663 665691 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :My guess is that command 3100 in BANCStar means that if the condition isn't true then it is an error and you have to rekey the input. < 1586462685 986409 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This guess is based on how the command is used in the known programs.) < 1586462732 398174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm just intrigued that BANCStar manages to be /so/ horrible it drives a brainfuck and Malbolge developer away in horror < 1586462760 178291 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I guess neither brainfuck nor Malbolge was designed to be a bad language (although neither was BANCStar…) < 1586462769 559342 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Malbolge was designed to be hard to program in, which is different from being bad < 1586462789 898901 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget the exact goal brainfuck was optimizing for, but it was something related to size or simplicity < 1586462831 488015 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5876:4e1c:874:9a27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I read your AIT notes. excellent research! your note say that I1_f uses KO(t|s) but I guess you mean KO(t|s*) ? < 1586462884 927503 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: KO(t|u) is defined in terms of u^* just like Chaitin does. < 1586462912 334253 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5876:4e1c:874:9a27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main advantage of my KP is that such a thm with KP(t|s) instead of KP(t|s*) would be rather trivial. Ah, Ok. I thought it better to make the * explicit < 1586462943 299784 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is a bit awkward, but it is what makes the other direction of the symmetry of information tick. < 1586462971 13881 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator NICK :Rutherfordium < 1586462975 482010 :Rutherfordium!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator NICK :Bowserinator < 1586462976 468635 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5876:4e1c:874:9a27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an implicit * is just too confusing though < 1586462992 465819 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I said, I'm just following Chaitin there. < 1586462999 591624 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5876:4e1c:874:9a27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and doesn't allow you to express the simple version < 1586463037 379252 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might change it. Maybe. < 1586463039 306725 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5876:4e1c:874:9a27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know, but I think this is one place where Chaitin should not be followed:) < 1586463058 764084 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opinion noted. < 1586463059 453598 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P > 1586463079 834232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PlusOrMinus 214]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70789&oldid=70768 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+50) 10/* Commands */ output < 1586463117 155034 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5876:4e1c:874:9a27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I quite like your KO version too. But I'm not ready to replace KP with it. Maybe they should live side by side:-) < 1586463127 830528 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure < 1586463161 433365 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5876:4e1c:874:9a27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will get a different halting probability. a simpler one. so that is one point in favor of yours < 1586463197 46255 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chaitin's u^* is a bit of a red herring actually... what is essential for the second part of the symmetry of information is knowing both H(u) and u. < 1586463230 106030 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5876:4e1c:874:9a27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1586463231 144569 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Because H(u) gives you a baseline for the probability P(u)) < 1586463378 846723 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5876:4e1c:874:9a27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, in a fit of optimism (about @w correctness and my manual proofs) I added BB(33) and BB(34) to OEIS < 1586463388 349651 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5876:4e1c:874:9a27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :W2 correctness < 1586463392 698544 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the OEIS sequence number? < 1586463411 639410 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, found it, http://oeis.org/A333479 < 1586463412 835073 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5876:4e1c:874:9a27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://oeis.org/A333479 < 1586463544 393668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sequence grows surprisingly slowly < 1586463562 98432 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least to start with < 1586463573 866706 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5876:4e1c:874:9a27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect BB(35) = 38127987424941 < 1586463574 799160 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :being a busy beaver sequence, it won't be long before it grows at rates too fast to comprehend or describe < 1586463596 971004 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that's more like it :-D < 1586463618 611675 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what function is being approximately computed? or is it not easy to tell? < 1586463628 318244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most small busy beaver numbers "summarize" well < 1586463630 849451 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5876:4e1c:874:9a27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have BB(53) being an exponential tower with well over 256 levels < 1586463650 99140 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` printf "%x" 38127987424941 < 1586463650 989304 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :22ad5d257ead < 1586463680 351941 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: Hmm, are you collecting those lower bounds somewhere? < 1586463710 768657 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5876:4e1c:874:9a27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the math overflow has some, and this one I added as note in my OEIS draft < 1586463724 841795 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5876:4e1c:874:9a27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just 3^3^3 < 1586463797 154313 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! brachylog 3^₃^₃w < 1586463798 527935 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :19683 \ true. < 1586463807 967593 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right, I associated that wrong < 1586463827 416658 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5876:4e1c:874:9a27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :size(church_n) = 5*n+6 < 1586463848 278040 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! brachylog 3^₃;3~^w < 1586463851 501456 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ \ false. < 1586463854 822025 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! brachylog 3^₃,3~^w < 1586463872 468474 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, 3^3^3, of course. < 1586463886 187062 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brachylog isn't very good at reassociating things < 1586463890 551329 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1586463896 551583 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I keep getting , versus ; versus : confused < 1586463898 514589 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 5*3^3^3 + 6 < 1586463900 476262 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 38127987424941 < 1586463906 79025 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! brachylog 3^₂₇w < 1586463907 488570 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :7625597484987 \ true. < 1586463920 384347 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! brachylog 3^₂₇×₅+₆w < 1586463921 722528 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :38127987424941 \ true. < 1586463926 51781 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1586463940 871839 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` dc <<<'3dd^^5*6+p' < 1586463941 801609 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :38127987424941 < 1586463945 959797 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, I figured out there was a pattern from the hexadecimal < 1586463972 859220 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looked a lot like it was something multiplied by 5, based on what digits resulted < 1586463976 934230 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` dc <<<'16o3dd^^5*6+p' < 1586463977 750310 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :22AD5D257EAD < 1586463978 795029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` printf "%x" $((38127987424941/5)) < 1586463979 630400 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :6ef79077fbc < 1586463999 809432 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm not sure that helped, now it just looks random :-D < 1586464041 700444 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had an advantage... I already knew the 5n+6 part. < 1586464101 98418 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5876:4e1c:874:9a27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :3-powers are bound to look random in binary:( < 1586464170 445304 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2-powers seemed likely to show up before 3-powers, perhaps not though < 1586464219 697181 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, on another topic: what does the fastest possible FizzBuzz look like? < 1586464237 573872 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a suspicion that you might not generate it in order < 1586464254 697729 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the aim here is to output the longest FizzBuzz sequence you can in, say, 1 second or 10 seconds) < 1586464263 132742 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5876:4e1c:874:9a27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, BB(4) corresponds to 2^2^2^2 < 1586464278 36547 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5876:4e1c:874:9a27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BB(34) < 1586464336 863794 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right, and that isn't on OEIS yet < 1586464354 523183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :65536 is possibly the non-small number that most commonly appears in busy beavers < 1586464372 899668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there are a lot of different ways to construct it and it thus appears in a lot of different fast-growing sequences < 1586464374 138531 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5876:4e1c:874:9a27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty awesome to have two consecutive comprehensible busy beaver numbers < 1586464418 473313 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5876:4e1c:874:9a27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're awaiting approval < 1586464440 858515 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well there's https://oeis.org/draft/A333479 < 1586464509 514542 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we can see what you're doing if we want to :) < 1586464543 326608 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh apparently that link format is not easily discoverable without an OEIS account. < 1586464973 391569 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5876:4e1c:874:9a27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TMs describable in 35 bits only reach a busy beaver value of 13 :-( < 1586465099 865336 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5876:4e1c:874:9a27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those describable in 46 bits likely reach only 4098 < 1586465157 845572 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :TMs are awkward to program < 1586465173 990187 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5876:4e1c:874:9a27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a brainfuck busy beaver would struggle similarly < 1586465177 187723 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by contrast, Brachylog reaches a program whose halting status is unknown in 24 bits < 1586465214 324380 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5876:4e1c:874:9a27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds worthy of a blog post! < 1586465239 380348 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/97004/does-the-code-terminate/177438#177438 < 1586465247 738567 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5876:4e1c:874:9a27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankcs < 1586465264 878877 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if you look at how we program TMs in practice, the number of states is a fair measure of program size. There's a lot of messy behavior outside the fragment we actually have a chance of understanding well enough for actual programming. < 1586465271 9662 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586465328 521368 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :BLC also has a lot of garbage programs, of course, but the programmable fragment feels bigger. < 1586465394 197978 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can compute 0.291652 now, time for bed. < 1586465410 20814 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :golfing languages aim to maximise the size of the programmable fragment, more or less by definition, so you'd expect them to hit unknown BB values faster > 1586465417 831599 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PlusOrMinus 214]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70790&oldid=70789 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* Examples */ < 1586465467 906174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this particular program is weird, though, it's using string operators on numbers and generates the Smarandache sequence < 1586465494 278543 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a weird sequence because every element checked so far is composite, even though there doesn't seem to be any particular reason why it should be < 1586465617 682917 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone did a busy-beaver-like search in number theory, too, and the simplest statement that neither they nor their program could prove true or false was "there are infinitely many prime numbers of the form x²-2" < 1586465658 33657 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the number 0.291652 is from http://www.research.ibm.com/haifa/ponderthis/challenges/April2020.html ) < 1586465663 489569 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that can't easily be converted into a program that searches for a counterexample, you'd need a proof both ways < 1586465882 184337 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5876:4e1c:874:9a27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that statement seems no simpler than goldbach's conjecture < 1586466024 965611 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: simpler in terms of the number of primitives needed to express it in the language they were using < 1586466066 735867 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5876:4e1c:874:9a27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were able to prove it could not be expressed more concisely? < 1586466082 437688 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5876:4e1c:874:9a27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe just by best effort? < 1586466101 994006 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5876:4e1c:874:9a27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what language was that? < 1586466228 590621 :mra90!Martin@nat/intel/x-cfjznfrnqplsfvwi JOIN :#esoteric < 1586466232 988908 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5876:4e1c:874:9a27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be a language with universal and existential quantifiers... < 1586466980 326392 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1586467371 534845 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: peano arithmetic with universal and existential quantifiers < 1586467394 238527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the brute-force search found a few statements that were all effectively equivalent to each other < 1586467403 206514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there was nothing simpler that couldn't be easily proven true or false > 1586468090 31339 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Hdjensofjfnen 5* 10New user account > 1586468180 780249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70791&oldid=70788 5* 03Hdjensofjfnen 5* (+158) 10 < 1586468268 428826 :Cale!~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586468275 32060 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586468290 939534 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586468300 997866 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Quit: leaving > 1586468349 37921 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70792&oldid=70741 5* 03Hdjensofjfnen 5* (+28) 10 < 1586468353 799223 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life > 1586468861 916965 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70793&oldid=70792 5* 03Hdjensofjfnen 5* (+43) 10/* Hexagony */ < 1586470547 14854 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1586470964 270606 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:555f:5c86:5c01:1259 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586471881 786087 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.228.187 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds > 1586472623 696100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:INTERCAL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70794&oldid=35649 5* 03Ais523 5* (+287) 10/* Binary operators */ this actually happened < 1586473659 266336 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator QUIT :Quit: Blame iczero something happened < 1586473662 398349 :noomy!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Quit: Bye! < 1586473666 517775 :wlp1s1!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero QUIT :Excess Flood < 1586473789 345730 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator JOIN :#esoteric < 1586473804 9356 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric < 1586473833 401274 :iczero!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero JOIN :#esoteric < 1586473935 221754 :iczero!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero QUIT :Excess Flood < 1586474008 822265 :iczero!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero JOIN :#esoteric < 1586474976 820979 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@user-5-173-140-63.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1586474991 709508 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@user-5-173-140-63.play-internet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course I didn't run away in horror :p < 1586475027 519374 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@user-5-173-140-63.play-internet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been interrupted three times now so the second has became around 3 hours < 1586475069 11569 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@user-5-173-140-63.play-internet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :They had three very interesting topic though so I couldn't resist < 1586475090 897618 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@user-5-173-140-63.play-internet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrecking 1300's in chess, chernobyl disaster and my mental health < 1586475108 420779 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5876:4e1c:874:9a27 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586476042 825207 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@user-5-173-140-63.play-internet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586476231 676452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: sorry for my connection < 1586476245 314317 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric > 1586476532 667448 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:JonoCode937414]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70795&oldid=70766 5* 03JonoCode9374 5* (+20) 10/* Languages I like */ > 1586479129 874305 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PlusOrMinus 214]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70796&oldid=70790 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+39) 10Add cat > 1586479546 196746 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Function x(y)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70797&oldid=70765 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-4) 10/* Syntax */ no floats < 1586480319 876676 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4882:1bb3:33a8:e3f5 JOIN :#esoteric > 1586480427 625727 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Gecho14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70798&oldid=69710 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title < 1586480542 583983 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1586480567 840535 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4882:1bb3:33a8:e3f5 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1586480871 325989 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like to play any chess variant? < 1586482340 920112 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:c082:c869:406:a260 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586482604 848718 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:c082:c869:406:a260 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1586482650 347311 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know if 2600 will still be printed? < 1586484431 778572 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric > 1586485171 884157 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Goruby14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70799&oldid=46968 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title < 1586485606 899031 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:c082:c869:406:a260 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586485823 995895 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-whduxbmxxgtfqdkp JOIN :#esoteric < 1586485859 840293 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:c082:c869:406:a260 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1586487065 788775 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "if the registers are actually in memory, why not have lots of them" => well, I remembered wrong. what I was about the registers was just false > 1586487069 660298 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GreenBerry14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70800&oldid=68591 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+16) 10fixed title < 1586487161 776642 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the info about the compiler is actually at "http://www.homebrewcpu.com/retargeting_lcc.htm" , it says the compiler knows of only the A and B registers of the machine, the memory register hack is used only for 32-bit integers because the machine has no such registers, and those are mapped to the stack frame (which has short addressing modes), not global memory > 1586487561 581852 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Groinfrick14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70801&oldid=53825 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+15) 10fixed title > 1586487737 472349 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Gtltem14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70802&oldid=45923 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title < 1586487950 858489 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :" so maybe BANCStar has a similar purpose?" => no, that one is probably because the interpreter was used for a much more suitable use in another bank or something, and then the customer bank decided that it must be a good framework and was willing to buy it and pay their engineers to buy it, just for the brand or name recognition, without realizing that it's not suitable for the kind of programs < 1586487957 11483 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that they want, < 1586488001 859738 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and especially that the previous team actually had the source code for thethe interpreter too and added more features to it whenever the target app needed functions more complicated than just adding a new field to a form, < 1586488028 339659 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this customer didn't realize that that was necessary, and just payed a software dev team to program in the existing framework. < 1586488055 20077 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least that's my very biased guess. < 1586488195 665652 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. Or, maybe not. < 1586488461 162046 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: OEIS format is documented at http://oeis.org/eishelp1.html < 1586489309 380012 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586489329 13157 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric > 1586489496 659231 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Forte14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70803&oldid=50817 5* 03Quadril-Is 5* (+660) 10 > 1586489519 22233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Forte14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70804&oldid=70803 5* 03Quadril-Is 5* (-6) 10 > 1586489945 222211 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70805&oldid=70307 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+275) 10/* Where can I find a compiler/interpreter of ABCDXYZ? */ new section > 1586490312 646169 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70806&oldid=70805 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+490) 10/* Should Nuts be deleted? */ new section < 1586490653 1082 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am writing a new ZZT external editor, which is Linux-based rather than ZZTQED which is DOS-based and is slow. This new one is much faster and is written half in C and half in SQL, and can (optionally) use the new features of FreeZZT. < 1586490714 956040 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also wrote two C files used with it, display.c which emulates a PC text screen, and zzt.c which is dealing with ZZT worlds; other people might also find these programs useful even when used with other stuff too, maybe. < 1586490727 278453 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(However, display.c requires SDL 1.x, so if you don't have that, then it won't work) < 1586492098 7665 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:c082:c869:406:a260 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586492376 977429 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:c082:c869:406:a260 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586496007 279068 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-whduxbmxxgtfqdkp QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1586497547 358017 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586497638 362690 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1586497705 227358 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finite discrete categories are like natural numbers, isn't it? And then you can also add, multiply, exponent, of categories too, and is the same thing, as with the natural numbers in the case of discrete categories, I think. I think that actually natural numbers will occur a lot in mathematics, isn't it? < 1586499355 87562 :diverger!~div@165.231.253.150 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586499425 808952 :diverger!~div@193.9.112.184 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586501366 5442 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:bc83:5624:aac4:3979 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586501657 12048 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:bc83:5624:aac4:3979 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586502074 875162 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:cc76:cc3f:633:4f5a JOIN :#esoteric < 1586503837 232420 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1586505615 435482 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-146-112-4.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1586506486 303022 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586508078 704951 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1586508504 793173 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... barring bugs, I'm done with the April Ponder This? That went better than anticipated. < 1586509663 704691 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586510446 699164 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1586511430 11124 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586511516 435958 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586513677 804334 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1586515746 161762 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:cc76:cc3f:633:4f5a PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like straightforward (dynamic) programming < 1586515787 889773 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1586515848 180681 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Maybe, but it doesn't match how I thought about it at all.) < 1586516105 479013 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:cc76:cc3f:633:4f5a PRIVMSG #esoteric :you enumerated all 8 node graphs? < 1586516113 817485 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically < 1586516131 389704 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:cc76:cc3f:633:4f5a PRIVMSG #esoteric :i expect it can't be done with 7 nodes:) < 1586516146 21490 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586516148 98770 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :plausible < 1586516186 492040 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:cc76:cc3f:633:4f5a PRIVMSG #esoteric :you used Haskell? < 1586516188 171903 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh maybe I do know what you meant with DP. < 1586516426 101872 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:cc76:cc3f:633:4f5a PRIVMSG #esoteric :computing the probability that a particular subset of nodes is the set of infected nodes after i steps < 1586517881 288973 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, then I did interpret the DP reference correctly after all. < 1586517891 995934 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I saw a Markov chain and matrix multiplication :P < 1586518999 936711 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm, why did I put that here. < 1586520483 707209 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586520711 698891 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1586521349 417774 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.228.187 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586522764 825651 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can one write a program that will guess a formula for given equation < 1586522791 375728 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if x = blah, y = blah, and (some formula involving x and/or y)=known z < 1586522796 948447 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bruteforce is it? < 1586522805 760198 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or there's some smart-ass way I don't know < 1586522920 660122 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm guessing you don't mean x*y*0+z < 1586523074 871569 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1586523081 681349 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :given a, given b, given z < 1586523087 887024 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1586523090 342280 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's actually smartass < 1586523100 537272 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but let's assume you can't do that < 1586524323 709259 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586524862 700110 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1586524907 388912 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-146-112-4.natnow.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1586525039 219030 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586525625 302628 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1586525645 437271 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hatemath14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70807&oldid=69897 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+2049) 10fixed title, added old interpreter from revision 54384 < 1586525678 487003 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1586527679 210960 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmao wtf this python code < 1586527720 489495 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a joke or sth < 1586527747 864884 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo < 1586527933 284611 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: if it was a joke, surely it would be using else: if: with proper indentation < 1586527960 70991 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a second I thought these were normal ifs < 1586527970 860893 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this entire code was essentially a no-op lol < 1586528038 383097 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen worse. (Haven't we all.) < 1586528567 871487 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, this code is not great not terrible, I've seen worse and I have to admit it. < 1586528594 396099 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's just a cheering thing to see this afternoon < 1586528883 701980 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586529015 370785 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric > 1586531180 666067 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* 10moved [[02Hunter10]] to [[HUNTER]]: fix capitalization > 1586531203 725190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07HUNTER14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70810&oldid=70808 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+0) 10fixed title < 1586532880 722310 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos PRIVMSG #esoteric :' Although what computability class F_omega represents, I don't know. I imagine that it is at least primitive recursive, and probably beyond primitive recursive to some degree. i.e. I would not be surprised if you could write the Ackermann function in F_omega. But again, I don't really know, yet.' => apparently even F2 can do ackermann < 1586532904 840818 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos PRIVMSG #esoteric :slide 114 of http://www.cse.chalmers.se/research/group/logic/TypesSS05/Extra/miquel_sl1.pdf < 1586535072 683642 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :All you need is proper (polymorphic) Church numerals. < 1586535083 700753 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586536133 715678 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1586536158 681224 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how much more powerful is F_omega? < 1586536418 216293 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:cc76:cc3f:633:4f5a QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1586536441 986899 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:cc76:cc3f:633:4f5a JOIN :#esoteric < 1586537346 349038 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric > 1586537940 38393 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:I like frog14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=70811 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+855) 10Created page with "A few questions: * For like i, how are ternary numbers converted into bits? Do the inserted bits start at the cell at the pointer or the cell to the right of the..." < 1586538847 975034 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi people! < 1586538864 873157 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am still looking for an endorser for arxiv. < 1586538877 556407 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan didn't respond yet. < 1586540016 481483 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1586540041 713778 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric > 1586540536 341604 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Metatape14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70812&oldid=66936 5* 03Hdjensofjfnen 5* (+34) 10/* Instructions */ > 1586540638 749142 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Metatape14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70813&oldid=70812 5* 03Hdjensofjfnen 5* (+22) 10/* Instructions */ > 1586540671 223356 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Metatape14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70814&oldid=70813 5* 03Hdjensofjfnen 5* (-35) 10/* Instructions */ < 1586541208 875699 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :chill, oerjan ain't a 24/7 CS problem IRC hotline :p < 1586541209 158263 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :give him some time, maybe the problem is complex < 1586541260 620051 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :[, 47 < 1586541260 658068 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1586541491 630111 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net PART :#esoteric < 1586541595 459034 :APic!apic@apic.name QUIT :*.net *.split < 1586542498 302929 :APic!apic@apic.name JOIN :#esoteric < 1586542499 605141 :MDead!~MDude@97-127-171-136.cdrr.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586542499 643045 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-171-136.cdrr.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586542499 643111 :MDead!~MDude@97-127-171-136.cdrr.qwest.net NICK :MDude < 1586542499 688218 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1586542499 688272 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric > 1586542799 858686 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Metatape14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70815&oldid=70814 5* 03Hdjensofjfnen 5* (-4) 10/* Language overview */ < 1586543958 368732 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c193-150-231-149.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1586543958 447803 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c193-150-231-149.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Changing host < 1586543958 447843 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1586544186 900606 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more and more creative usernames everyday < 1586547244 363934 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, okay. < 1586547372 14874 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:8502:5e44:dc85:1d17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586548379 466672 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1586549526 539963 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:8502:5e44:dc85:1d17 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1586549586 158978 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Quit: quit < 1586549748 720413 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1586550077 939635 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm getting confused about kinds and types, so if α:*, β:*, (λa:α.b:β):α→β, is the type of 'α→β' '*' or '*→*' (i think its the former)? so would Πα:*.α be of type *→*? < 1586550079 710383 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Quit: quit < 1586550226 474805 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:cc76:cc3f:633:4f5a QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1586550607 14833 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:cc76:cc3f:633:4f5a JOIN :#esoteric < 1586551346 654376 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:cc76:cc3f:633:4f5a QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586552177 178832 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:cc76:cc3f:633:4f5a JOIN :#esoteric < 1586552363 574214 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes and yes < 1586552378 679222 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they aren't here anymore but maybe will read the logs or something. < 1586553108 244224 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:cc76:cc3f:633:4f5a QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1586553973 571215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:ABCDXYZ14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70816&oldid=65857 5* 03Ais523 5* (+7712) 10paste the implementation onto the talk page > 1586554037 762792 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70817&oldid=70806 5* 03Ais523 5* (+199) 10/* Where can I find a compiler/interpreter of ABCDXYZ? */ I put it on [[Talk:ABCDXYZ]] < 1586554098 985599 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:cc76:cc3f:633:4f5a JOIN :#esoteric > 1586554184 461053 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70818&oldid=70817 5* 03Ais523 5* (+765) 10/* Should Nuts be deleted? */ where does the content come from? < 1586554346 571701 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kritixilithos: no, (Πα:*.α) is still of kind * > 1586554391 949850 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Forte14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70819&oldid=70804 5* 03Ais523 5* (+675) 10/* The first error */ it's an error by definition; why I defined it to be an error < 1586554584 860963 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586554775 651715 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1586554777 412519 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1586555071 233743 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION forgot what Π means maybe :/ < 1586555842 824951 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought yes and yes too. < 1586556732 621719 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:cc76:cc3f:633:4f5a QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1586558195 575369 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Icecream17 5* 10New user account > 1586558447 452051 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70820&oldid=70791 5* 03Icecream17 5* (+306) 10introduce < 1586559013 231956 :budonyc!~budonyc@c-24-62-204-147.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586559605 401014 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.228.187 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1586561157 646430 :Maitor!~goban@gateway/tor-sasl/maitor JOIN :#esoteric > 1586561179 70799 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07KeyVM14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70821&oldid=70601 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title > 1586561276 30259 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07KeyVM14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70822&oldid=70821 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (-14) 10unfixed title based on repo > 1586561626 478707 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Kitanai14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70823&oldid=60539 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+82) 10added repo link > 1586564766 19958 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07L14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70824&oldid=66891 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (-148) 10it's pretty obviously Python < 1586565484 34445 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:f4e4:9136:6e90:4d3f JOIN :#esoteric < 1586565776 16855 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:f4e4:9136:6e90:4d3f QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds > 1586567452 828888 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lazy Bird14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70825&oldid=20117 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+33) 10/* External ressources */ fix link < 1586567677 546096 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, now the new rules of Magic: the Gathering say that companion cards must be shown when the game begins. > 1586567848 792769 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Leszek14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70826&oldid=22715 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+25) 10/* External resources */ fixed link < 1586567900 570700 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now counters have timestamps too, and I don't really like that much. > 1586568019 377242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lhooq14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70827&oldid=50016 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title < 1586568633 988623 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586568727 3347 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:f4e4:9136:6e90:4d3f JOIN :#esoteric < 1586568984 97417 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586568994 977781 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:f4e4:9136:6e90:4d3f QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586569094 2216 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586569818 135305 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric > 1586570062 379520 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Icecream1714]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=70828 5* 03Icecream17 5* (+5886) 10ugh this is hard. but i finally did it < 1586570068 14554 :budonyc!~budonyc@c-24-62-204-147.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586570143 930236 :rinakra!~rinakra@170.130.1.11 JOIN :#esoteric > 1586570387 40370 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Icecream1714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70829&oldid=70828 5* 03Icecream17 5* (+271) 10reassurance, comment < 1586570638 534969 :rinakra!~rinakra@170.130.1.11 PART :#esoteric < 1586570873 372334 :budonyc!~budonyc@c-24-62-204-147.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586571244 303328 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric > 1586572403 385599 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* 10moved [[02Logstack10]] to [[LogStack]]: fix capitalization < 1586572763 736614 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586572843 744379 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric > 1586573657 410080 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Flurry14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70832&oldid=70605 5* 03Challenger5 5* (-10) 10 > 1586573885 638765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* 10moved [[02M-code10]] to [[M-Code]]: fix capitalization > 1586573885 874492 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* 10moved [[02Talk:M-code10]] to [[Talk:M-Code]]: fix capitalization > 1586573938 477197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07M-Code14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70837&oldid=70833 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+0) 10re-fixed capitalization based on the interpreter's documentation > 1586574275 788967 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07M?!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70838&oldid=62346 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+129) 10added categories > 1586574549 369628 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rogex14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70839&oldid=69579 5* 03Lebster 5* (+1) 10/* Hello, world! */ > 1586574971 761566 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rogex14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70840&oldid=70839 5* 03Lebster 5* (+146) 10/* Commands */ < 1586576491 182290 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1586576611 79577 :budonyc!~budonyc@c-24-62-204-147.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586576642 786905 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586577416 280701 :budonyc!~budonyc@c-24-62-204-147.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586577859 245556 :budonyc!~budonyc@c-24-62-204-147.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1586578253 898387 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-171-136.cdrr.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1586578647 434453 :budonyc!~budonyc@c-24-62-204-147.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586579133 703500 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to "ncal -e" and "ncal -o", the Orthodox Easter is one week after the Catholic Easter this year. < 1586579411 719714 :Maitor_!~goban@gateway/tor-sasl/maitor JOIN :#esoteric < 1586579522 773715 :mniip!~mniip@freenode/staff/mniip QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586579583 698541 :Maitor!~goban@gateway/tor-sasl/maitor QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586580412 454213 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine if televisions and analog cameras had originally been designed to scan lines alternatingly left and right, boustrophedon style! it would have made the PPUs of computer terminal so much more complicated, then later the computer software complicated, we'd still be dealing with some of the fallout from it, just like how we sometimes have to deal with interlaced video < 1586580555 50320 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, although they didn't do that. Also many computers used 240p in order to avoid interlacing anyways, I think. < 1586580674 775884 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: true, partly to avoid interlacing, and partly because the CPUs do 8 bit arithmetic, so having the width and height of the screen in pixels be just a bit lower than 256 (in the NES and the game boy) is both convenient for manipulating sprites and causes some amusing wraparound bugs (NES Jekyl and Hyde has the weirdest one, but there are minor ones in many other games) < 1586580862 713728 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although the CRTC chip used in PC has a interlacing mode, although it isn't used in PC. (It also has a cursor blinking mode, which also isn't used in PC; the PC has its own logic for cursor blinking. I have the schematics, so I know how it is working, including the undocumented cyan/red/white mode.) < 1586582612 610698 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I often see smbc comics that are very close to an xkcd strip, or backwards, but today is I think the first time when the strips for the same day are similar: < 1586582652 748695 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/inching vs https://xkcd.com/2292/ (for the future, because SMBC makes it very hard to find the strip for a given date) < 1586582942 517405 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reminded of https://futurism.com/coldest-hottest-temperatures-known-universe-infographic where a few of the higher temperatures are clearly estimates in Kelvin, converted to Celsius. (I remembered one, 99,999,999,726°C, but there are also 36,926°C and 6627°C. < 1586582946 620776 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1586582971 922523 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how many single-line closing parenthesis he has in the log. Must be quite a few. < 1586582992 523447 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :( < 1586583001 331252 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should try to compensate for them like this.) < 1586583125 863848 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh I still missed a couple. But I'm sure you can find them yourself. :P < 1586583944 508521 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yes, that's the smaller side-effect of pop articles refusing to write big numbers in mantissa-exponent form. the bigger side effect is that they write numbers like "100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000" that are totally uninformative unless you take the time to have a computer count the digits < 1586583984 48507 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or similarly "hundred thousand million million million million million million" < 1586584030 27548 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's better than the unadorned 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000. < 1586584062 212590 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, at that point I don't bother counting by hand anyway, just have a computer do it < 1586584072 891442 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, at least in a digital text < 1586584097 226154 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly in printed text, the commas are better < 1586584121 826170 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well the groups of three do help. For example, they make 100,000,000,000 quite manageable to decipher. < 1586584252 290442 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1586584276 668073 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But pushing it beyond 4, maybe 5 groups, isn't very helpful. It's not like I have any sense of how big those numbers are anyway, except by switching to a logarithmic scale and pretending it means something.) < 1586584323 303939 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1586584335 986869 :iczero!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586584341 993304 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586584346 590606 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And basically that switch is what scientific notation does. < 1586585563 64549 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yes < 1586585798 84962 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586585814 592788 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1586585994 332524 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586587514 447556 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586588718 512494 :Maitor_!~goban@gateway/tor-sasl/maitor QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586588776 75458 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586588809 856329 :Maitor_!~goban@gateway/tor-sasl/maitor JOIN :#esoteric < 1586588817 65564 :voidio!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid JOIN :#esoteric < 1586588861 5851 :probablymoony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric < 1586588878 13402 :iczero!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero JOIN :#esoteric < 1586588908 203056 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator JOIN :#esoteric < 1586589201 19542 :voidio!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid NICK :iovoid < 1586591184 825319 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586591225 69161 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1586593081 683927 :Maitor_!~goban@gateway/tor-sasl/maitor QUIT :Quit: Maitor_ < 1586593100 688274 :Maitor!~goban@gateway/tor-sasl/maitor JOIN :#esoteric < 1586594779 696656 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1586594854 945954 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: thanks, i am able to follow this type derivation from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambda_cube#Formal_definition, but i guess i don't have the intuition yet < 1586595331 187130 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kritixilithos: don't believe what I say about that type system either, I don't really understand it < 1586595447 794064 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu TOPIC #esoteric :Welcome to the international hatchery for esoteric programming discussion, design, egg-plants, development, and deployment! | https://esolangs.org | logs: https://esolangs.org/logs/ http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D https://github.com/KrzysztofSzewczyk/esologs/ < 1586596624 310272 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586596639 786129 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1586597866 849561 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586597932 822556 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586597945 784177 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1586598417 428139 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble QUIT :Quit: even though the storm calmed down, the bitter end is just a matter of time < 1586598558 791437 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble JOIN :#esoteric < 1586600214 320410 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586600231 710622 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric > 1586600439 134258 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Noxomix 5* 10New user account > 1586600817 661753 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70841&oldid=70820 5* 03Noxomix 5* (+278) 10edited > 1586601051 156753 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07WebFuckLang14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=70842 5* 03Noxomix 5* (+27) 10Created page with "[[Category:Joke languages]]" > 1586601141 852392 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07WebFuckLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70843&oldid=70842 5* 03Noxomix 5* (+27) 10 > 1586601609 554585 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07WebFuckLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70844&oldid=70843 5* 03Noxomix 5* (+213) 10/* What is WebFuckLang? */ > 1586601645 790810 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07WebFuckLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70845&oldid=70844 5* 03Noxomix 5* (+13) 10 > 1586601905 884589 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07WebFuckLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70846&oldid=70845 5* 03Noxomix 5* (+8) 10 > 1586602117 7468 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70847&oldid=70750 5* 03Noxomix 5* (+70) 10 > 1586602430 814939 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07WebFuckLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70848&oldid=70846 5* 03Noxomix 5* (+146) 10 > 1586602692 771646 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07WebFuckLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70849&oldid=70848 5* 03Noxomix 5* (+133) 10 > 1586602748 263977 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07WebFuckLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70850&oldid=70849 5* 03Noxomix 5* (+109) 10 > 1586602769 162405 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07WebFuckLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70851&oldid=70850 5* 03Noxomix 5* (+0) 10 > 1586602777 954927 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07WebFuckLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70852&oldid=70851 5* 03Noxomix 5* (+0) 10 > 1586603015 269679 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07WebFuckLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70853&oldid=70852 5* 03Noxomix 5* (+352) 10 > 1586603200 334957 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07WebFuckLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70854&oldid=70853 5* 03Noxomix 5* (+144) 10 > 1586603265 377253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07WebFuckLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70855&oldid=70854 5* 03Noxomix 5* (-150) 10 > 1586603322 931220 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07WebFuckLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70856&oldid=70855 5* 03Noxomix 5* (-1) 10 > 1586603336 364643 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07WebFuckLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70857&oldid=70856 5* 03Noxomix 5* (-20) 10 > 1586603349 811156 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07WebFuckLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70858&oldid=70857 5* 03Noxomix 5* (-15) 10/* The basic Syntax */ > 1586603389 709135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07WebFuckLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70859&oldid=70858 5* 03Noxomix 5* (+67) 10 < 1586603731 294145 :Maitor!~goban@gateway/tor-sasl/maitor QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586603820 618423 :Maitor!~goban@gateway/tor-sasl/maitor JOIN :#esoteric < 1586604526 860573 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1586605048 24848 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07WebFuckLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70860&oldid=70859 5* 03Noxomix 5* (+678) 10 > 1586605559 417375 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07WebFuckLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70861&oldid=70860 5* 03Noxomix 5* (+445) 10 > 1586605903 565562 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MemPanic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70862&oldid=11368 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title < 1586605988 92953 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds > 1586606080 338522 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07WebFuckLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70863&oldid=70861 5* 03Noxomix 5* (+309) 10 > 1586606277 782167 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Babalang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70864&oldid=70637 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+746) 10Add examples of valid/invalid statements > 1586606426 622689 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07WebFuckLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70865&oldid=70863 5* 03Noxomix 5* (+111) 10/* The basic Syntax */ < 1586606910 787665 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1586607097 388021 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07WebFuckLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70866&oldid=70865 5* 03Noxomix 5* (+497) 10/* The basic Syntax */ < 1586607171 998474 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:2de3:ed69:355:b732 JOIN :#esoteric > 1586607188 380483 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Babalang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70867&oldid=70864 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+581) 10Begin the runtime section. (Due to an interruption, I will continue this later.) > 1586607388 88859 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07WebFuckLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70868&oldid=70866 5* 03Noxomix 5* (+247) 10/* The basic Syntax */ < 1586607448 979734 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:2de3:ed69:355:b732 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586607923 697904 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586608408 833672 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.228.187 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586609237 959899 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.228.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi hi a kind is kind, but a type isn’t that type < 1586609348 445949 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm? < 1586609382 25038 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.228.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I might have used “kinds” and “types” as I initially planned but then I thought that “types ... that type” would be for some reason ungrammatical, poor me < 1586609532 142745 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.228.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: there was a conversation about 20:21 UTC yesterday about kinds and types and I’ve read it only now :D < 1586609566 72770 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine < 1586609609 832240 :szewczykgej!53178d06@dfl6.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1586609748 110410 :szewczykgej!53178d06@dfl6.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl PART :#esoteric < 1586610704 232138 :unrooted!~unrooted@user-5-173-9-137.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1586610740 705389 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1586611060 945181 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:2de3:ed69:355:b732 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586611816 614513 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that went way smoother than they advertised it to < 1586611826 314533 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at first it sounded like the networks gonna collapse < 1586613523 811574 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1586613761 601361 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Palaiologos14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70869&oldid=67362 5* 03Palaiologos 5* (+60) 10link to seed article > 1586613877 502040 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Palaiologos14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70870&oldid=70869 5* 03Palaiologos 5* (+118) 10irc nickname > 1586613918 444584 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Palaiologos14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70871&oldid=67378 5* 03Palaiologos 5* (-1460) 10clear my talk page < 1586613929 652846 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^-- no idea how to remove my user page < 1586613934 225354 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm just removing the content < 1586614471 697645 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1586617637 354269 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.228.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: maybe fizzie knows? < 1586617682 397983 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not even sure I added myself or my language Egel. < 1586617686 50251 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have a look. < 1586617742 652233 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. It is there. < 1586617749 204249 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.228.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kritixilithos: hi, if you don’t logread (as I am lazy to do very often, for example), there are some answers to your yesterday’s questions about kinds, approx. 21:00 UTC yesterday, and later < 1586617827 931819 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: i've seen them, i even replied to b_jonas today, it seems you are the one who hasn't been logreading :P < 1586618038 782981 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.228.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kritixilithos: yep I’m too late and I definitely hadn’t logread, I agree < 1586618049 222965 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.228.187 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1586618079 363071 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1586618357 827172 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:2de3:ed69:355:b732 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1586618980 59059 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Icecream1714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70872&oldid=70829 5* 03Icecream17 5* (-6032) 10decided to put it in an article > 1586619341 256349 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Stopwatch14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=70873 5* 03GDavid 5* (+1877) 10Created page with "Stopwatch is a language invented by [[User:GDavid]]. == Program structure == A Stopwatch program consists of function declarations. The Main function is called on start. ==..." > 1586619405 310833 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70874&oldid=70847 5* 03GDavid 5* (+16) 10Stopwatch > 1586620020 409746 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Stopwatch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70875&oldid=70873 5* 03GDavid 5* (+715) 10Examples > 1586620068 638991 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Stopwatch14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70876&oldid=70875 5* 03GDavid 5* (+33) 10sleep N return value < 1586621390 890581 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:2de3:ed69:355:b732 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586621443 706115 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586621844 668929 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I added another card (called "Master Shuffler") to my Un-cards file. < 1586621872 698420 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1586622829 762424 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to access a SQLite database from a standalone PostScript program? (There is %pipe% to communicate with other programs, but it is only a one way pipe.) < 1586623311 415718 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you probably need to write an extension to the postscript interpreter in a way that's dependent on the specific interpreter for that < 1586623528 174162 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1586623670 735337 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:2de3:ed69:355:b732 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1586623756 348967 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Powder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70877&oldid=65461 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+0) 10 < 1586624470 467862 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is one thing I thought that should be done in level 4 PostScript, to define a C API for extensions, and a dlopen operator which takes a filename and dictionary, and then the extension writes into the dictionary when loaded (the dlopen operator would not be allowed in safe mode, although if you use it before switching to safe mode, the extension that is already loaded is still usable). < 1586624576 671742 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other things I thought should be done in level 4 PostScript is some of the stuff currently specific to Ghostscript, such as dictionaries in binary object format and the makeimagedevice operator and the %pipe% file, and also to make copypage to depend on the device whether or not it will erase the contents of the page, and a few other things. < 1586624776 887503 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ghostscript does not support dynamic extensions; all extensions must be compiled in. < 1586625207 203650 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:2de3:ed69:355:b732 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586625526 18429 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Ghostscript itself is usable as a dynamic extension for other programs, though.) < 1586625633 890109 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how much overhead does yacc add compared to a hand-written parser < 1586625645 474143 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm not entirely sure is writing own parser worth it < 1586625665 444434 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, in terms of performance obviously < 1586625792 965389 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might depend on what syntax you need to parse, perhaps. < 1586626089 508554 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:2de3:ed69:355:b732 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586626373 2270 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:2de3:ed69:355:b732 JOIN :#esoteric > 1586626380 638394 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Flurry14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70878&oldid=70832 5* 03Challenger5 5* (+176) 10 < 1586626572 389697 :budonyc!~budonyc@c-24-62-204-147.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1586627816 360247 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:2de3:ed69:355:b732 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586628123 698224 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586628607 316442 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-171-136.cdrr.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1586628651 394420 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Uriel 5* 10New user account > 1586629188 38566 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70879&oldid=70841 5* 03Uriel 5* (+100) 10 > 1586629498 530936 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bunk bed14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=70880 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+7344) 10+[[Bunk bed]] > 1586629502 347965 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70881&oldid=70874 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+15) 10+[[Bunk bed]] > 1586629505 258914 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Hakerh40014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70882&oldid=70751 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+15) 10+[[Bunk bed]] > 1586629707 247145 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bunk bed14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70883&oldid=70880 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (-4) 10/* Syntax */ < 1586630116 2276 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:59a3:f3d6:f072:a9c4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586630320 187676 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1586630445 982319 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:59a3:f3d6:f072:a9c4 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586631423 699259 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1586631650 57107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07414]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70884&oldid=70059 5* 03Uriel 5* (-94) 10Edited descriptions (with formatting), added language box panel, added implementation < 1586631940 409105 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, +50 and more rules, small amount of symbols, rules are usually at most 3 deep < 1586631967 545555 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I decided to get a hand-written parser running < 1586631971 969498 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so far it's paying off < 1586632082 470535 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1586632123 306879 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07414]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70885&oldid=70884 5* 03Uriel 5* (+87) 10 > 1586632143 570391 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07414]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70886&oldid=70885 5* 03Uriel 5* (-34) 10 < 1586632191 891339 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:f980:833e:7f09:2865 JOIN :#esoteric > 1586632269 791677 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07414]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70887&oldid=70886 5* 03Uriel 5* (+21) 10 > 1586632572 700612 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07414]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70888&oldid=70887 5* 03Uriel 5* (+26) 10 > 1586632590 369245 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07414]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70889&oldid=70888 5* 03Uriel 5* (+1) 10 < 1586632888 355408 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1586633315 674417 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Saw a rumor about a famous mathematician dying from COVID-19. Not sure if I should repeat. > 1586633337 971089 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tac Toe Toe Grow14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=70890 5* 03Icecream17 5* (+8529) 10New language! (Copied from user page and edited) < 1586633409 55078 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :which mathematician. < 1586633416 933692 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conway < 1586633432 110176 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://twitter.com/CardColm/status/1249038195880341505 < 1586633487 502617 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://twitter.com/alexbellos/status/1249044593817116673 < 1586633540 340359 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't seem to be reliable..? < 1586633602 566829 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoping it isn't reliable. < 1586633633 801231 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? life < 1586633636 181613 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​‘Life,’ said Marvin, ‘don't talk to me about life.’ > 1586633709 861139 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Icecream17 5* 10moved [[02Tac Toe Toe Grow10]] to [[Tic Tac Toe Grow]]: How in the world did I make this mistake???? < 1586633799 700072 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric > 1586634756 219609 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Promo14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70893&oldid=61602 5* 03Structuresend 5* (-256) 10 > 1586635001 749264 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Flurry14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70894&oldid=70878 5* 03Challenger5 5* (-101) 10 > 1586635037 719371 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Flurry14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70895&oldid=70894 5* 03Challenger5 5* (-2) 10 < 1586635903 782424 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1586636177 209822 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586636264 354292 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1586636850 27551 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Quit: quit < 1586637742 783831 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586637906 428546 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:f980:833e:7f09:2865 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1586638127 401893 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Uriel14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=70896 5* 03Uriel 5* (+180) 10Created page with "Hi! I'm Uriel. I'm mostly active on [https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/users/65326/uriel PPCG]. I wrote the [https://github.com/urielieli/py-four py-four] interpreter for [..." < 1586638602 282367 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:f980:833e:7f09:2865 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586638894 814807 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586638932 807703 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.228.187 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586639101 793178 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1586639947 370834 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like my "Master Shuffler" Un-card? < 1586640327 849226 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:f980:833e:7f09:2865 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586640400 681327 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can shuffle one or more of: target planeswalker or player, target player's mana pool, your hand, each planar deck and each scheme deck, the layer system, and/or all timestamps. < 1586641148 12737 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586641261 880907 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1586641319 348303 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1586643356 983038 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:f980:833e:7f09:2865 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586643901 126068 :unrooted!~unrooted@user-5-173-9-137.play-internet.pl QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1586644634 424097 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:f980:833e:7f09:2865 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586645461 803601 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586646704 857449 :nona!9db570ae@client-112-174.eduroam.elte.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1586648932 529871 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1586649336 805356 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586649727 262251 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586649822 322894 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Client Quit < 1586649919 314526 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric > 1586649990 644185 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Ais523 5* 10deleted "[[02User talk:Palaiologos10]]": Author request: normally user talk pages aren't deleted, but no relevant warnings/communication from others was present < 1586650090 608522 :nona!9db570ae@client-112-174.eduroam.elte.hu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1586650136 166848 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Ais523 5* 10deleted "[[02Tac Toe Toe Grow10]]": redirect from unlikely misspelling (notwithstanding that it was created due to that misspelling) < 1586650495 237041 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find the HTML specification really creepy and unnatural < 1586650504 209017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it starts off innocently enough < 1586650519 853583 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but after a while, you realise that it is an entire web browser written in pseudocode > 1586650529 995579 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MiniUSPL14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70897&oldid=30402 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title < 1586650540 254571 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with corrections for bugs, a library system, and similar other things you would find in programming languages < 1586650545 894608 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but you can't run it because it's pseudocode) < 1586650592 721549 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc programs are substantially shorter in pseudocode because you can just gloss over details, invent builtins on the fly, and the like < 1586650595 130657 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's still creepy < 1586650829 97547 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, including a lot of compatibility stuff for old and broken webpages (though not the MSIE compatibility stuff), defining all the DOM interface for javascript, except you have to add the CSS spec because that's in a separate document < 1586650928 97451 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus I guess the SVG and MathML spec if you want to support those > 1586651093 303455 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minim14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70898&oldid=54427 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (-1763) 10fixed code blocks < 1586651157 267221 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that some things could be implemented differently, possibly subject to user configuration. Some things should be implemented different anyways, depend on view modes, etc. > 1586652124 550678 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minkolang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70899&oldid=49842 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+93) 10added repo link < 1586652301 81950 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586652689 84180 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric > 1586653972 912168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Comefrom0x1014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70900&oldid=52432 5* 03Hdjensofjfnen 5* (+0) 10/* Types */ > 1586655562 475793 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Promo14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70901&oldid=70893 5* 03Structuresend 5* (-44) 10 > 1586657034 894300 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Mom please get me so me zucchini from sho p14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70902&oldid=59419 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title < 1586657041 875773 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9d8c:9832:2a9:697b JOIN :#esoteric < 1586657324 845066 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9d8c:9832:2a9:697b QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1586660705 842212 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:e159:cc2c:8f3b:6229 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586660957 841429 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:e159:cc2c:8f3b:6229 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1586665323 233445 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1586667181 9335 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:e159:cc2c:8f3b:6229 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586667478 979277 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:e159:cc2c:8f3b:6229 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586670446 260249 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-171-136.cdrr.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1586673733 850435 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:6480:879b:1e59:3651 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586673804 3502 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:50f3:115d:996a:2dbb JOIN :#esoteric < 1586673977 840115 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:6480:879b:1e59:3651 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1586674090 979660 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:50f3:115d:996a:2dbb QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586675782 842319 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:50f3:115d:996a:2dbb JOIN :#esoteric < 1586676806 218096 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586677325 369998 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586678024 963751 :Guest76489!61717d8b@97-113-125-139.tukw.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586678037 952814 :Guest76489!61717d8b@97-113-125-139.tukw.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1586678082 755011 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome Guest76489 < 1586678085 583306 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​02Guest76489: 06Welcome 13to 04the 07international 08hub 09for 02esoteric 06programming 13language 04design 07and 08deployment! 09For 02more 06information, 13check 04out 07our 08wiki: 09. 02(For 06the 13other 04kind 07of 08esoterica, 09try 02#esoteric 06on 13EFnet 04or 07DALnet.) < 1586678162 605858 :Guest76489!61717d8b@97-113-125-139.tukw.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy easter < 1586678510 638408 :Guest76489!61717d8b@97-113-125-139.tukw.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :who here is in the process of applying to unemployment < 1586678566 56307 :Guest76489!61717d8b@97-113-125-139.tukw.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey int-e < 1586678663 871611 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never knew you need to apply in order to be unemployed < 1586678976 833913 :Guest76489!61717d8b@97-113-125-139.tukw.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586679351 834137 :name!61717d8b@97-113-125-139.tukw.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586679383 112566 :name!61717d8b@97-113-125-139.tukw.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname I hope you're having a good Sunday morning! happy easter < 1586679573 558802 :name!61717d8b@97-113-125-139.tukw.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone playing any video games right now? < 1586679702 109619 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on webcomics < 1586679757 5390 :name!61717d8b@97-113-125-139.tukw.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one are you reading now? < 1586679795 659812 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to play M&B warband < 1586679817 992531 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :name: Too many. Apocalyptic Horseplay is a recent addition. < 1586679884 67645 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm waiting for Bannerlord to be stable so I can pirate^H^H^H^H^H^H buy it obviously < 1586680099 661527 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :name: basically webcomics work like this https://xkcd.com/609/ on a somewhat slower scale. < 1586680467 251227 :name!61717d8b@97-113-125-139.tukw.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos M&B warband kind of reminds me of Blade and Sorcery at first glance < 1586680505 106949 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1586680518 479693 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're missing the strategical POV, the map screen < 1586680540 841037 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1586680544 199739 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :google images don't show it < 1586680591 29638 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: https://mobile.twitter.com/SamWangPhD/status/1249132655737790464?p=p <-- getting closer to confirmation :-( < 1586680646 269414 :name!61717d8b@97-113-125-139.tukw.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e if you're into webcomics, I just started working with some friends on one as a way to raise money to build an installation for burning man 2020 < 1586680649 535899 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: imo, webcomics are not _that_ likely to link to other interesting ones < 1586680659 922386 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(TheGuardian picked it up) < 1586680660 473545 :name!61717d8b@97-113-125-139.tukw.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll let you. know how it goes < 1586680668 950687 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: You'd be surprised. < 1586680705 23182 :name!61717d8b@97-113-125-139.tukw.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the apocalyptic horseplay one looks nice. I just read a few pages < 1586680724 931120 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: IME, if a webcomic author lists 10 comics that they like, and you like their stuff, you'll like 2 or 3 of those comics as well. < 1586680786 116389 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Obviously there are duplicates... but it's still a growing pool.) < 1586680814 469245 :name!61717d8b@97-113-125-139.tukw.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh xkcd is cute! I can see why you're into webcomics. just in the few suggestions you sent, I'm already spiraling deeper into the void < 1586681316 833344 :name!61717d8b@97-113-125-139.tukw.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586683118 782950 :unrooted!~unrooted@user-5-173-2-106.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1586684398 26371 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586684433 200930 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586684477 122876 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life > 1586684705 607754 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07WebFuckLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70903&oldid=70868 5* 03Noxomix 5* (+549) 10 > 1586684801 239669 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07WebFuckLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70904&oldid=70903 5* 03Noxomix 5* (+66) 10/* Examples */ > 1586685253 455320 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07WebFuckLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70905&oldid=70904 5* 03Noxomix 5* (+717) 10 < 1586685478 819246 :unrooted!~unrooted@user-5-173-2-106.play-internet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586685529 778373 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.228.187 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586685767 219609 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1586685996 185441 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bunk bed14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70906&oldid=70883 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+10) 10/* Comparing mappings */ fix typos < 1586686357 387496 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-171-136.cdrr.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1586686581 548566 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Babalang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70907&oldid=70867 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+15) 10Easier searchability < 1586688187 168463 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1586688725 342121 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1586689314 575945 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've found another use for unshare() :-) http://paste.debian.net/1139892/ < 1586689998 310572 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, so that has to be setuid to be allowed to unshare? always seemed counterintuitive that sandboxing requires *additional* privileges... anything should be allowed to go further down its own rabbithole < 1586690056 733772 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you can use most of clone unprivilaged < 1586690062 84039 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and do some sandboxing for it < 1586690087 10658 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think you need to be root to set up bridge network devices in the containing host, which is very useful for sandboxing < 1586690088 725679 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: oh, can I do that, hmm. < 1586690133 400926 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: anyway, that you can do sandboxing as user is a noble goal, and the Linux devs are trying to go there, but the fact is, it's really hard to get right, and we don't want to compromise the kernel with security bugs because of that, so it's going slow < 1586690168 424931 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Only a privileged process (CAP_SYS_ADMIN) can employ CLONE_NEWNET." < 1586690195 706858 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yes, which make sense, you couldn't modify the network devices in the other namespace as non-root anyway < 1586690227 654387 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in practice, you set up the sandbox with root privilages, then let the non-user access it < 1586690245 327912 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably learn about that. (At least set up a loopback device) < 1586690271 605811 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: sadly I don't know the details of sandbox network setup. I should learn about it some day. < 1586690299 342326 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah exactly my point, I don't know about it either. < 1586690305 486750 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess start from (man 8 ip) and ask on irc < 1586690356 513729 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also network_namespaces(7). < 1586690366 351712 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense that to e.g. bridge to a physical interface you'd need outside-system privileges, but it ought to be possible to e.g. set up an isolated sandbox and talk to it (e.g. do user-space port forwarding) without ever going "up" in privileges < 1586690422 110036 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: but why put all that policy into the kernel when you can write a userspace daemon to do all that < 1586690531 5569 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(At the cost of messing up the process parenthood story.) < 1586690622 37797 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, some day... and in the meantime I'll enjoy the 5 minute hack. < 1586690658 231415 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Another starting point is the unshare command line tool, which supports at least some of the networking stuff. < 1586690854 444917 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586690897 274195 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? password < 1586690899 222981 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :The password of the month is starving for attention. < 1586691049 786250 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds > 1586691433 272119 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Babalang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70908&oldid=70907 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+4990) 10Document YOU > 1586692257 828868 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Community portal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70909&oldid=68863 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+626) 10Added a link to another esoteric discord server < 1586694073 919018 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? bfgen < 1586694076 853561 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfgen? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1586694079 740292 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? bftextgen < 1586694081 63158 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :bftextgen? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1586694085 689385 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bfgen text < 1586694086 462154 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfgen? No such file or directory < 1586694094 65907 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is this brainfuck generator named < 1586694094 141013 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's called bfasm and asmbf < 1586694100 200990 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not this one < 1586694108 644289 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the brainfuck code generator from a string < 1586694118 851045 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the fungot prefix, I forgot < 1586694130 75166 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvm he's dead < 1586694140 65084 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one that generated the casino program? you haven't got the source code of that, so unless it put a doc comment into the compiled code, you won't know the name < 1586694156 978291 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1586694175 360092 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? genbf < 1586694176 622447 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :genbf? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1586694181 637505 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` type genbf < 1586694182 520940 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :genbf is /hackenv/bin/genbf < 1586694187 736855 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` genbf --help < 1586694188 701980 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :fold: invalid number of columns: '--help' < 1586694192 87720 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh HackEso has had a brainfuck text generator < 1586694195 599903 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I need right now < 1586694260 359841 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the wiki links to one < 1586694521 168831 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh nvm < 1586694525 278450 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just use my old, inefficient one < 1586695431 238133 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds > 1586695469 448738 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PlusOrMinus 214]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70910&oldid=70796 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+294) 10/* Auto-formatting */ < 1586695546 405983 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1586695621 778424 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.228.187 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1586695703 414779 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.228.187 JOIN :#esoteric > 1586695726 538664 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PlusOrMinus 214]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70911&oldid=70910 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+157) 10 > 1586695789 354125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PlusOrMinus 214]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70912&oldid=70911 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+27) 10/* Resources */ > 1586696453 509184 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70913&oldid=70762 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+31) 10/* Languages */ > 1586697650 896594 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Test14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70914&oldid=70326 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+109) 10 < 1586697870 714345 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1586698105 663862 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Oh great. Interfaces are created via the netlink (more specifically rtnetlink) protocol... the tools (iproute2) are developed in tandem with the kernel so this area is underdocumented. In particular, there's an IFLA_INFO_KIND attribute which one can set to "veth" to create that kind of device that I believe is not documented at all. < 1586698144 811031 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: right. that's why the next step is to ask people on irc. < 1586698161 271058 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you still have to look at the docs first before that < 1586698390 972387 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course you can just execute the 'ip' tool with the right parameters in whatever namespace you want to manipulate.) < 1586698415 250615 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586698445 103755 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any case, it can be figured out ... none of this is rocket science. :) > 1586698504 931942 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70915&oldid=70913 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+50) 10 < 1586698512 756750 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reading the iproute2 sources is doable as well (that's how I found the IFLA_INFO_KIND thing in the first place... well, after also looking at the veth.c in the kernel sources and finding a reference to a "kind"). > 1586698540 850851 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70916&oldid=70915 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+14) 10 > 1586698555 722875 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70917&oldid=70916 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-64) 10end test < 1586698594 311885 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1586699554 516566 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Test14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70918&oldid=70914 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+620) 10 > 1586699586 156679 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* 10moved [[02User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Test10]] to [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)]]: another unnamed language > 1586699831 400531 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70921&oldid=70919 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+436) 10/* Operators */ > 1586699922 173584 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70922&oldid=70921 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+87) 10/* Operators */ > 1586699931 479778 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70923&oldid=70922 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-2) 10/* Examples */ > 1586699950 176962 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70924&oldid=70923 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+4) 10/* Examples */ > 1586699963 980134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70925&oldid=70924 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+11) 10/* Operators */ > 1586701807 869835 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07414]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70926&oldid=70889 5* 03Uriel 5* (+44) 10added memory system category < 1586703836 144648 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:50f3:115d:996a:2dbb PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i determined that the hanging/memory-hogging behaviour of BB(x) 35 is due to just a handful of terms < 1586703891 843423 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:50f3:115d:996a:2dbb PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we can subject BB(35) to manual analysis < 1586704420 378005 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:50f3:115d:996a:2dbb PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact i have only 8 terms left to analyze < 1586704465 473415 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:50f3:115d:996a:2dbb PRIVMSG #esoteric :including one candidate for beating 3^27 < 1586705119 777552 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.83.177.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1586705218 415010 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.228.187 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds > 1586705320 978773 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:NEGATOR14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=70927 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+215) 10Created page with "The closing brace mentions a "condition you put immediately after it"; what is the syntax of such a condition? ~~~~" < 1586705343 276177 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586705545 125567 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586706518 302715 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric > 1586706965 398170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70928&oldid=70925 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1089) 10 > 1586707153 428785 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ndef14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70929&oldid=36781 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title > 1586707240 636156 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07414]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70930&oldid=70926 5* 03Ais523 5* (+49) 10merely colon-linking to a category isn't enough to categorise, you have to add it to the category list too; also add [[Category:Implemented]] as well, while I'm here, because the page lists interpreters > 1586707667 160173 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NegaPosi14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70931&oldid=8033 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+100) 10fixed links < 1586707867 410794 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586708041 237266 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1586708225 831670 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586708419 304423 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1586708923 700950 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586710504 743414 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1586710725 398170 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586710734 648282 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, so it turns out that there's a practical use for the imp < 1586710765 843724 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on early models of the IBM 1620, the operator manually entering and running an imp was the standard way to clear memory between programs < 1586710781 316009 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess this is an argument for making the all-zeroes instruction an imp in a new processor design < 1586710787 595272 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what imp? < 1586710797 4105 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is an imp? < 1586710800 17249 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :an implementation? < 1586710801 358227 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an imp is a machine code instruction that copies itself to the next memory location in memory < 1586710815 443512 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so immediately after running, the next instruction now contains an imp too < 1586710821 732726 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1586710834 53651 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's a weird way to memset? < 1586710834 290013 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will inevitably end up filling all of memory unless it hits a page fault or some other thread overwrites it just as it's about to run < 1586710847 210122 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1586710852 13450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I didn't think imps had any practical use < 1586710857 728246 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I was wrong, which is why I commented on it here < 1586710859 739035 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but many machines already have copy instructions that you can use to fill memory < 1586710868 752483 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in memory copy instructions > 1586710870 526901 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70932&oldid=67039 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+173) 10added repo link and categories < 1586710890 370872 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they work on overlapping memory if you want to make many repeated copies of a pattern (even a single byte) < 1586710935 433479 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in the ones that don't, that's because there's a fast way based on normal instructions to do a block copy < 1586710948 416411 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but that's not great for zeroing all of memory because a) it'll end up overwiting itself at some point, b) it's likely to be more than a single instruction long < 1586710969 129448 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure, you zero all the memory other than that code instead < 1586710980 745717 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did some research into the fastest way to bulk-store memory on a modern processor, it appears to involve nontemporal writes of 128 bits at a time from multiple different source registers < 1586710994 887360 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's a /lot/ of code < 1586711029 500054 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so? why is that a problem. isn't this for zeroing memory to make sure that no information from before remains? just make sure when you load that block of code that it doesn't have holes, so nothing but that code remains. < 1586711031 915084 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to get that to zero itself might be possible, though, because each loop iteration zeroes a huge amount of memory, so you could probably make the last iteration of the loop overwrite the entire program front-to-end < 1586711046 165444 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I guess, but it's inelegant < 1586711056 355743 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you want to zero that, you could use a slower but smaller zeroing method to zero that < 1586711086 813242 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I can see one potential issue with using an imp to zero memory: because all of memory is now filled with an imp, it guarantees that the entire state of the running program will be wiped out if the instruction pointer ever goes out of bounds, making it hard to debug what happened < 1586711117 25778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless your program counter doesn't wrap) < 1586711152 440378 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also that only works if the memory that you want to write forms a single solid contiguous segment, which is not always true in machines with bank changing or ROM or something < 1586711174 771289 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1586711180 165163 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't need a page fault, just a ROM that ignores writes < 1586711221 375146 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the Name „Imp“ come from Corewar? < 1586711221 519524 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, on a vaguely related topic: does anyone know of computer storage devices that are reasonably possible to obtain in modern times, that store data (and transmit it to the computer) in 3-bit or 6-bit chunks? < 1586711222 450209 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or an unmapped memory area that ignores writes, in case of those old cpus that are in sync with the RAM < 1586711223 922546 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :APic: yes < 1586711227 400236 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1586711246 332528 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does it have to be hardware? I can emulate such a thing in software < 1586711248 431050 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :six-channel paper tape would be an obvious choice but a) tape readers aren't readily available nowadays, b) six-channel is an uncommon size < 1586711275 540830 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: ideally yes; I can emulate it in software too, and was planning to, but if the software is itself stored on an 8-bit disk it doesn't fit the intended usecase < 1586711281 75186 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't heard of six-row paper tape < 1586711288 135598 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :only 5 row and 7 row < 1586711356 528235 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think 8-row was also used < 1586711361 641744 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, 6 was not a standard size < 1586711465 548684 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: on some floppy disk hardware, you could define a custom disk format that uses 6-bit bytes < 1586711484 990657 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 12-bit words or something < 1586711562 663097 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering about reformatting a disk to use words that weren't 8 bits long < 1586711581 89449 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have that much of a grasp about how low-level reformatting of a disk (changing tracks, cylinders, etc.) works < 1586711592 568199 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the "formatting" I'm aware of is actually file system creatino < 1586711594 964899 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*creation < 1586711659 595230 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: on modern floppy drives, yes, because the hardware floppy controller handles most of those low level ops. but on the Commodore 1541, the floppy drive that is used the most often used with the Commodore 64, there's a cpu and rom and small RAM in the floppy drive that allows the user to reprogram it, < 1586711720 174697 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the program that runs on the floppy drive handles individual low level bit read/write one by one (the cpu is fast enough for that), where the low level bits are such that you can't write more than three consecutive 0s or else it won't reliably read back or some such, < 1586711751 973776 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the floppy drive program encodes 4 logical bits to 5 of those hardware bits, and it decodes an entire sector of I think 256 bytes before it reads it to the computer / after it writes it to the computer < 1586711770 408006 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, maybe you need to reprogram the floppy drive firmware < 1586711772 863603 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet it's writable < 1586711775 27298 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but programmers often reprogrammed the floppy drive because the default program in the RAM is very slow, < 1586711782 852244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually figuring out how to write it is probably much harder tohugh < 1586711786 262926 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why there's a lot of practical information on the web about how to reprogram it < 1586711818 867578 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if anyone reprogrammed the drive to store 6-bit bytes, or how practical that is, because it's used with 8-bit computers < 1586711895 924149 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the PC, you can't change that part of the program, because the floppy controller handles that part of the decoding itself. you can still change some parts of the floppy format, but I believe not the part of how many bits a byte has. < 1586711940 476550 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think you can set the serial port of the PC to send and receive 6-bit bytes on a direct serial line, but that doesn't count as storage < 1586711962 423164 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: agreed < 1586712005 437811 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :setfdprm appears to think in terms of bytes, not bits, so I guess so does Linux < 1586712015 197948 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably PC hardware as a whole < 1586712030 752102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess you'd need to do sixbit-to-byte translation in the drive firmware < 1586712233 771764 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently the Amiga's floppy drive controller can be configured to any word size, that's "only" 30 years old < 1586712423 710017 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1586712659 846696 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Noit o' mnain gelb14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70933&oldid=27090 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title < 1586712963 414722 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: Hmm, looking at your criterion, I did re-discover that one myself in the meantime, with the same idea that ω-like terms are strict. (Pushed a more detailed proof.) < 1586713110 45325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, there seem to be philosophical issues about how much data a disk can store < 1586713178 506414 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with magnetic disk storage, there are physical limits to how densely you can pack transitions between 0s and 1s, but if you don't have any transitions for a sufficiently long time, it's difficult to read because you don't know where you are on the disk < 1586713206 690135 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, e.g., on a CD, every 8-bit byte of data is encoded as 17 bits on the disk < 1586713236 14510 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: I can't claim it's independent... you dropped a couple of hints on the channel. < 1586713241 273074 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :CD is rather different from magnetic storage though < 1586713264 4216 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, you're right that it's optical rather than magnetic but much the same restrictions apply < 1586713400 418092 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :data CD has a lot more error correction codes than floppy disks, apparently mostly to survive scratches of the foil part of the CD < 1586713416 838218 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly it's newer < 1586713430 392214 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right, error correction < 1586713442 801439 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, this leads to the philosophical question about just how large a file is < 1586713470 125796 :ositoblanco!~osito@45.77.207.121 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1586713475 908351 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially given that EOF needs to be encoded somehow > 1586713635 339292 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nouse14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70934&oldid=34796 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title < 1586713699 672641 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite crazy just how few error correction old floppy disks have. it's usually just a one or two byte checksum per sector. < 1586713732 321349 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the checksum isn't even CRC, it's just a bytewise XOR checksum. wouldn't that lead to corrupted files that aren't detected? < 1586713744 751290 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Run-length_limited <-- oh, fancy, there are some prefix codes in there < 1586713794 179412 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it wouldn't surprise me if optimal RLL codes /never/ had an integer number of bits per word < 1586713849 347561 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, nobody wants to implement an optimal code < 1586713881 898980 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, but they get pretty close. the code that the Commodore floppy uses encodes 4 bits to 5 physical bits, and there are 17 permissable codes for those 5 physical bits, of which 16 are used, IIRC < 1586713891 272606 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it'd let you fit more data on your drive < 1586713905 466580 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not optimal of course, because an optimal one would need to have much longer segments < 1586713918 352819 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some dependency between the adjacent chunks < 1586713931 533444 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a non-integer number of bits per word < 1586713939 57167 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I think you have dependency that lasts forever < 1586713948 181756 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last chunk on the disk might theoretically depend on the first chunk < 1586713958 229895 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming a perfect code) < 1586713976 191440 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would of course be bad for random-access writes, but might still be useful on a disk intended to be read-only < 1586714081 116765 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe tape drives would be better for this than floppy disks < 1586714211 459384 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :even then you probably want units smaller than a whole disk. (it needn't be as small as the 256 byte sectors of course.) that doesn't lose you much with the encoding density if the chunks aren't too small. < 1586714310 561973 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually the unit should probably be below a sector... to reduce latency. < 1586714328 284587 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :256 byte sector? What hardware is that... < 1586714340 168757 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: no, it could be incrementally decodable < 1586714393 505535 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Hmm, not reliably. < 1586714408 509814 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: 256 byte sectors for the default format for the Commodore 1541 floppy drive still, but I think also PC floppy drives in some of the lower density modes < 1586714510 603987 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_floppy_disk_formats < 1586714578 628063 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm no, that page says that PC floppy disk has formats with sector sizes 128, 1024, and 512 bytes. funny. < 1586714609 488056 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the first two only for the big floppy disks, so mostly just 512 bytes per sector < 1586714625 809352 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the Commodore formats then < 1586714786 487474 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1586715248 74256 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:50f3:115d:996a:2dbb PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i'm glad to hear you find the new rule sound < 1586715553 654559 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:50f3:115d:996a:2dbb PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the new rule, your BBx.hs will be able to examine all 35-bit terms except for some that follow this pattern: < 1586715559 112060 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:50f3:115d:996a:2dbb PRIVMSG #esoteric :> toughtriples :: DB -> Bool < 1586715559 204115 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:50f3:115d:996a:2dbb PRIVMSG #esoteric :> toughtriples (DBApp (DBLam (DBApp (DBApp (DBVar 0) (DBVar 0)) (DBVar 0))) (DBLam (DBLam (DBApp (DBVar 1) (DBApp (DBVar 1) _)))) ) = True < 1586715559 204169 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:50f3:115d:996a:2dbb PRIVMSG #esoteric :> toughtriples _ = False < 1586715563 724099 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : :1:131: error: < 1586715563 822085 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : parse error on input ‘=’ < 1586715563 921649 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Perhaps you need a 'let' in a 'do' block? < 1586715563 921694 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : error: < 1586715563 921722 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: type constructor or class ‘DB’ < 1586715565 726272 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : :1:16: error: < 1586715567 744816 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : parse error on input ‘=’ < 1586715569 729180 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Perhaps you need a 'let' in a 'do' block? < 1586715581 461906 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: woah, hold your horses < 1586715594 554099 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: this is a good argument against literate Haskell ;) < 1586715597 163639 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:50f3:115d:996a:2dbb PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so pasting from literate Haskell is not the brightest idea:( < 1586715647 31074 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:50f3:115d:996a:2dbb PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's terms like (\1 1 1) (\\2 (2 (???))) < 1586715672 532986 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, (\1 1 1) (\\2 (2 _)) < 1586715703 919625 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:50f3:115d:996a:2dbb PRIVMSG #esoteric :including our friend 3^3^3 < 1586715704 510741 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh is that the thing that explodes? < 1586715721 112756 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:50f3:115d:996a:2dbb PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the inscrutable (\1 1 1) (\\2 (2 (1 2))) < 1586715723 951026 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes sense, I guess. < 1586715732 613409 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:50f3:115d:996a:2dbb PRIVMSG #esoteric :which could beat it < 1586715801 532673 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly I may be having a brainfart right now, but I can't figure out one thing < 1586715809 866620 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: As far as I can see, the IBM BIOS had no function for querying the sector size... so from some point onwards everybody assumed 512 bytes. < 1586715812 828369 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine an uint of given size < 1586715818 628682 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:50f3:115d:996a:2dbb PRIVMSG #esoteric :note the similarity with the BB 31 recordholder (\1 1) (\\2 (2 (1 2))) < 1586715822 346885 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: the PC one, I mean < 1586715838 556368 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if it contains a certain value, and I'll keep subtracting a certain value from it over and over again < 1586715839 371314 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: Yeah I noticed the similarity. < 1586715852 933762 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can I determine will it ever reach zero < 1586715888 697614 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:50f3:115d:996a:2dbb PRIVMSG #esoteric :\\2 (2 (1 2)) is the evil twin of \\2 (2 (2 1)) :-) < 1586715892 532796 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: check which of the value has more 0 bits at the end. < 1586715917 853242 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 and 3 will finish < 1586715930 273370 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 has more of them < 1586715952 340880 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 and 6 won't finish < 1586715958 419904 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 5 still has more 0 bits at the end < 1586715972 846960 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ka = b (mod m) has a solution k if gcd(a, m) divides b. In this case, m is a power of 2, 2^n, and the gcd can be found by looking at the trailing 0 bits. < 1586715978 159387 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: is that for the floppy or for the hard disk? < 1586715984 239214 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes. < 1586715991 199608 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :both < 1586716005 758129 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't sector size saved in BPB? < 1586716015 229453 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's ultimately no reason to query BIOS < 1586716045 71585 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well having a uniform sector size is certainly convenient for software < 1586716117 653360 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways < 1586716318 664137 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. INT 13 - HARD DISK - PS/1 and newer PS/2 - IDENTIFY DRIVE < 1586716340 211385 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I'm confused here. < 1586716385 886376 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Microsoft added extensions to INT 13? One of which allows to query the sector size. < 1586716509 125554 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: But yeah you're right, this is stored in the BPB (which I conveniently forgot about. It has been about 20 years since I actively knew this stuff...). < 1586716533 683298 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :My mistake was to look at INT 13 alone, but there is INT 1E - SYSTEM DATA - DISKETTE PARAMETERS < 1586716549 895527 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1586716553 904649 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you query BIOS < 1586716556 519484 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CMOS contains all this data < 1586716573 528429 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot which registers are they, but I'm 100% sure it contains data you need < 1586716587 397884 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, eww. < 1586716603 794351 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The BIOS is there so you don't have to do everything with in/out. :P < 1586716637 618380 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing CMOS is much cooler < 1586716646 783574 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and faster! < 1586716649 926459 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does any modern PC include a programming environment in ROM? I think it ought to do, whether it is BASIC, Forth, or assembly language. This way the computer is usable even without an operating system. < 1586716677 957994 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1586716718 50914 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back in reality, no it doesn't, unless you count the utilities for flashing a new BIOS. < 1586716788 918112 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can "accidentally" set a BIOS password < 1586716810 187597 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :switch drive geometry around < 1586716819 45693 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :flash AMI/Award/Phoenix BIOS :P < 1586716861 235768 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer a computer in working order. < 1586716878 12496 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a personal preference :P < 1586716892 266235 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me rephrase. < 1586716901 102230 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :This may sound extreme, but I prefer a computer in working order. < 1586716906 2442 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know < 1586716928 197637 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I stated that I (may) like my old PC screwed < 1586716930 941551 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm okay with it not running and Malbolge code though. < 1586717010 948652 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder could one smh find a vulnerability in the stock Malbolge interpreter < 1586717013 551403 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh I have fond memories of a particular HDD failure. It was a 70MB MFM drive, no important data left on it (I think)... for which one of the address bits was broken. < 1586717040 482062 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a week ago I ran my malware on an old DOS computer < 1586717042 97460 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :checkdsk & co. had a field day with it... and it took me some poking around to figure out just how broken it was :) < 1586717049 790016 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it doesn't boot from any device < 1586717066 606331 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hard disk contents are trashed < 1586717077 450166 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mal(bolge soft)ware < 1586717080 983806 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmao < 1586717111 595836 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have discovered a piece of code back then that may make CRT monitors explode < 1586717116 934584 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but personally, didn't test it :P < 1586717177 393803 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder would dgx-2 run my chess engine < 1586717178 603854 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :capacitors, blue smoke < 1586717188 292209 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in malbolge < 1586717219 507573 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You should not be able to blow up the CRT itself. But the high frequency circuit driving the beam... that's an entirely different story.) > 1586717227 502122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nyarlathotep14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70935&oldid=44425 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+24) 10/* External resources */ fixed link < 1586717295 699706 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1586717306 114056 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't miss CRTs, except for one small thing... < 1586717317 843862 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :...the psychedelic color effects that you could achieve with a magnet. < 1586717320 12499 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank god CRT monitors are gone < 1586717330 724845 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't miss a single thing about them < 1586717348 243384 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But really, that's the only positive thing about them that I can remember :) < 1586717371 907964 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I had a CRT monitor to spare < 1586717373 704763 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somebody should emulate it in an LCD. ;) < 1586717380 287501 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and balls big enough to test the code < 1586717389 909262 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'd know definitely :p < 1586717404 16092 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586717407 992093 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it may explode only the cheapy monitors < 1586717419 539599 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could write a fuzzer though < 1586717437 583831 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *have* seen a blown up capacitor that was responsible for the horizontal ray alignment in a monitor I used to have. < 1586717450 588693 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The good thing about CRT is that it works OK even if the resolution is wrong. Other than that, I think CRT is not as good as LCD. < 1586717478 774913 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I repared that actually... later it totally lost the green beam. That I didn't fix... got a new monitor soon after. < 1586717487 603808 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also X-Rays < 1586717490 10201 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that CRT emits < 1586717500 272651 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know that it's not the beam that's colored, obviously.) < 1586717527 790577 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what's the blue smoke < 1586717534 901202 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never had a crt monitor do that < 1586717539 713053 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a capacitor is it? < 1586717547 652778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what specific component burns blue < 1586717552 395512 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :capacitor smoke is normally gray, in my experience < 1586717555 847691 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the face is typically made of thick lead glass so as to be highly shatter-resistant and to block most X-ray emissions" < 1586717558 309487 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although maybe it depends on the type of capacitor < 1586717566 521406 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the x-ray was a big issue in practice? < 1586717578 197929 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I did not actually see the smoke :) < 1586717596 603296 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: re: deleting pages, it can't be done without an administrator verifying the deletion is appropriate/necessary, so that people can't unilaterally delete the history of content < 1586717599 377319 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one can make a capacitor out of many things < 1586717607 685663 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess blue is kind of the default color for smoke I've never seen myself, for no good reason. < 1586717610 235026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and especially for User talk: pages, which are often used to send people warnings, it's important to maintain a record < 1586717642 496502 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I wouldn't be surprised to see a capacitor emit blue smoke < 1586717644 786315 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, if there's no reason not to delete something and it's primarily the work of one person, we normally delete it on request unless there's a reason not to < 1586717665 34306 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well my talk page is empty right now, deletion would be a cosmetical change but I don' < 1586717666 957667 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :t really care < 1586717696 396952 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, how often it happens that users get warned < 1586717710 983961 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this wiki isn't moderated like very carefully and amount of trolls is moderately low < 1586717721 994594 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: haha, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Degauss_in_progress.jpg < 1586717747 535831 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa < 1586717751 70261 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(didn't expect to see a picture of that... on Wikipedia) < 1586717761 363711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, it only just crossed my mind that plenty of today's computer users will never have seen a degauss < 1586717769 856514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :back when I was in school we used to degauss monitors for fun < 1586717779 259735 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which was ultimately good for the monitors too, of course) < 1586717812 189610 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't see it being performed :P < 1586717823 699324 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when CRT monitors were in use, I was just an average PC user < 1586717830 278161 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most monitors of the time period had built-in degauss circuits < 1586717844 77529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so all you needed to do is to know which controls on the monitor triggered them < 1586717903 64483 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you do that manually < 1586717913 291312 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like when the circuit is not present at all < 1586717926 935535 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd probably need a portable degaussing coil < 1586717930 446059 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :held close to the screen < 1586717976 852228 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The picture is lacking the *foom* noise that went with the process though... let's check youtube. < 1586717977 416682 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmm < 1586717984 754768 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know such things existed < 1586717998 843383 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the noise of a degaussing is quite hard to describe < 1586718005 39374 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: apparently they were originally invented for use on warships < 1586718011 308644 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they'd have to be scaled down a lot to be used on a CRT monitor < 1586718037 181103 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(warships benefit from being degaussed because many automated warship-detection devices used magnetism to do the detection) > 1586718053 48703 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OOo CODE14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70936&oldid=50071 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+36) 10/* External resources */ note < 1586718064 965547 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:56 < ais523> back when I was in school we used to degauss monitors for fun < 1586718065 566612 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :same < 1586718072 363706 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when you degaussed one monitor it would slightly mess up the one next to it < 1586718104 945516 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah, the Navy had a degaussing station in San Francisco < 1586718111 31942 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can still go look at the shack which used to contain it < 1586718310 953192 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia says that portable degaussing coils for use on monitors exist, but give no information about what they look like, what shape they are, etc. < 1586718415 166446 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it strikes me that maybe ebay will have listings for them < 1586718434 978201 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1586718462 932500 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there seem to be multiple different designs, some circular, some more wand-like < 1586718493 307410 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zy-T6m7F_aQ is similar to what I remember < 1586718504 649019 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(degauss sound) < 1586718528 799148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite expensive nowadays, but that likely makes sense, I imagine there's not much call to manufacture new ones, so the supply will reduce faster than the demand < 1586718693 243512 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :when we first had TFT monitors, I liked CRTs because they had more vivid colors. but TFT monitors have improved since. < 1586718723 603865 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and CRTs have other drawbacks, like a less sharp image and often flickering unless you drive it on a very high refresh rate < 1586718790 319067 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CRTs often have lots of unnecessary additional circuitry for marketing reasons that slows their response time < 1586718797 758300 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* TFTs, and later OLEDs < 1586718804 550567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the CRTs that typically don't < 1586718834 118590 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget what technology modern screens typically use < 1586718840 463735 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think TFT is outdated by now < 1586718895 491207 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe not, it was apparently used almost universally in 2013 but I can't find newer dat < 1586718897 2528 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*data < 1586718925 256630 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: "deletion would be a cosmetical change" => it got deleted hours ago I think < 1586718959 827649 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see now < 1586718984 25697 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "(warships benefit from being degaussed because many automated warship-detection devices used magnetism to do the detection)" => interesting, I didn't know this < 1586718998 444365 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1586719026 227796 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, aparently OLEDs didn't catch on due to having a few issues that were hard to work around < 1586719030 318805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so probably we still use TFT variants < 1586719032 790331 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think the TFT part is still up-to-date (as far as LCD displays are concerned); what has changed are the mechanisms by which the liquid crystals affect the light. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin-film-transistor_liquid-crystal_display has a list. TN is traditional, IPS is probably most common < 1586719085 538801 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are weird points in the comparison, e.g. OLEDs use less power than TFTs to display black, but more to display white < 1586719109 155084 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so which is more efficient depends on what images are being viewed < 1586719182 150409 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think that's because they use these stupid heuristics where if the image is mostly dark, they turn the brighness of the leds down, which makes sense for stuff like TV films, but less for a computer interface. You can't really do with the fluorescent back lighting that traditional TFTs use. < 1586719196 12835 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, they use more power to display white? how? < 1586719248 771423 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't LEDs automatically take half or a third of the power of the most efficient non-LED lighting because they are more narrow spectrum, it's just that they also have worse spectrum which is annoying < 1586719257 477832 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: the lighting on a TFT is also LED, though < 1586719266 488033 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe OLEDs draw more power than regular LEDs < 1586719296 225776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, TFTs use white LEDs for their backlighting < 1586719301 699555 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas an OLED uses a mix of red/green/blue < 1586719304 887169 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which may well make a difference < 1586719314 912538 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1586719333 107879 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I miss being able to use computer monitors with the backlight off < 1586719336 327101 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but aren't white leds also a mix of different colored leds? < 1586719339 491345 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was never very practical, but it was sort-of doable < 1586719343 473152 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the magic part is the blue leds < 1586719344 658983 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: two rather than three (blue + orange) < 1586719359 938079 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they still are worse in blue than other light sources < 1586719367 166352 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1586719369 246477 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of my older laptops, with the backlight off the monitor worked just fine in direct sunlight < 1586719376 506856 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but you had to turn it back on again in dimmer lighting conditions) < 1586719380 619964 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is that a color monitor? < 1586719384 839078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes > 1586719389 469134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Object oriented thue14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70937&oldid=54004 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (-22) 10/* External resources */ fixed link < 1586719401 783144 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah you just need a sufficiently reflective back surface i'd guess < 1586719406 601624 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION visualises a CRT laptop < 1586719418 68215 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there are "portable computers" with CRT < 1586719421 852227 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they made sense back then < 1586719429 232983 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the word "luggable" is often used for those < 1586719431 109047 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather small CRTs, mind you < 1586719436 913732 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :careful, your neck might collapse under the strain > 1586719472 58520 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* 10moved [[02Object oriented thue10]] to [[Object oriented Thue]]: fix capitalization > 1586719472 147692 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* 10moved [[02Talk:Object oriented thue10]] to [[Talk:Object oriented Thue]]: fix capitalization < 1586719481 517386 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the limits on the geometry of a CRT like anyway < 1586719500 150065 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :like there's obviously a maximum practical angle on the cone but idk what constrains it < 1586719559 939717 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get the deflection of the beam (which is what moves it within the cone) you need huge voltages < 1586719581 159744 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the greater the deflection angle, the more accurate you have to be < 1586719585 670415 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1586719636 512180 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're trying to rapidly change the voltage on the deflector coils to a sequence of accurate, very high values, very rapidly < 1586719649 819114 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's not very easy to do < 1586719674 631565 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially given the deflector coils are presumably inductors < 1586719694 366390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1586719717 711101 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although in this case the back-emf is basically only a problem during power on and power off, and maybe hblank < 1586719745 819796 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you're changing the value in a set pattern and can allow for the inductance in advance < 1586719765 754247 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, during hblank, the beam is turned off so it doesn't matter if the voltage doesn't change instantly or linearly) < 1586719851 560764 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a typical TV's deflector coils would be in the 1-10 kilovolt range < 1586719855 519061 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OLED#Efficiency_of_blue_OLEDs is one ingredient to the power efficiency puzzle < 1586719981 49436 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another, probably smaller, part is that perhaps there's more loss due to resistance between power supply and the actual LEDs. (All the energy emitted by the display has to be transported to some individual pixel, whereas for LCDs only a comparatively smaller power for driving the crystals plus the transistor has to be pushed to individual puzzles.) < 1586719998 129611 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, according to Wikipedia, there are such things as CRT printers < 1586720004 848962 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1586720009 598743 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they electrostatically charged the paper < 1586720015 730695 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the absence of efficient blue OLEDs seems more significant. < 1586720015 974430 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it was placed next to electrostatically charged ink < 1586720017 570881 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be a laser printer < 1586720029 422162 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fun. < 1586720032 563185 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: but with beta radiation, not electromagnetic radiation < 1586720044 487471 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I guess is the fundamental difference < 1586720061 945429 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a laser printer electrostatically charges the paper, then discharges it with a laser beam anywhere where it wants to leave that white, then puts the paper next to the toner casette so it electrostatically attracts black ink < 1586720073 520379 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1586720087 808078 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds rather impractical < 1586720091 304670 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: isn't it the drum that's being charged and discharged < 1586720097 870457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: well it was abandoned in the 1960s < 1586720101 469399 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so probably it was actually impractical < 1586720112 416568 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I don't really know < 1586720121 839680 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :back then it took a while to discover the practical computer technologies, so they had to make do with eso computers until they found a practical way to do things < 1586720122 520958 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :superceded by better technology. < 1586720132 806237 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just use this nonsense as a customer < 1586720148 862070 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I'm pretty sure it's the drum... otherwise buying the right paper for a laser printer would be a huge hassle. < 1586720166 461360 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: why? ordinary paper can be charge electrostatically < 1586720184 235927 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :crt printer still seems less out there than using crt for main memory which was totally mainstream for a while < 1586720192 41408 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no "c" in "supersedes"; even the specification for netnews articles says there is no "c" in "supersedes". < 1586720210 510871 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: charged and discharged reliably at 600 dpi? < 1586720231 193467 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you have to realise just how terrible the available read/write memory technologies were in the 1940s < 1586720237 735493 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: only discharged at that resolution, they're charged uniformly < 1586720248 386127 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were no good options, so all the bad options were explored quite comprehensively < 1586720250 440413 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i know about mercury delay lines so im well aware < 1586720259 680320 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I can't refute the idea, but I'm pretty sure it's the drum... which is a more or less fixed part of the printer so much easier to control anyway :P < 1586720266 195526 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when magnetic core memory was invented in 1955 it was a huge relief to everyone < 1586720274 622433 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even though it's /still/ a terrible storage technology by modern standards) < 1586720288 393552 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no surprise, because SRAM became practical only with integrated circuits < 1586720311 464872 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :it required at least the transistor one assumes < 1586720328 411892 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :was there a period where using discrete transistors for RAM was practical actually...? < 1586720345 74911 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an old book about computers which is post-transistor but pre-integrated-circuit < 1586720367 618938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it talks about the use of transistors for logic, and also for amplification (for use in analog computers) < 1586720387 469367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but assumes magnetic core as the only practical memory technology for storing large amounts of read/write data < 1586720410 561388 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: only? doesn't it assume magnetic disks are available for that? < 1586720424 740686 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know they're not random accessible < 1586720429 689878 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: disks? no < 1586720435 866892 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if magnetic tape had been invented at the time < 1586720442 23258 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but disks are way newer than the book < 1586720446 102917 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, pre-integrated-circuit < 1586720455 742344 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that must be really old < 1586720465 416459 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh more crazy old memory devices... https://www.radiomuseum.org/forum/williams_kilburn_williams_kilburn_ram.html < 1586720468 422890 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i legit didn't know tape was still widely used until i heard about it in training for my current job < 1586720480 979534 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is honestly somewhat surprising given how much general reading i do < 1586720492 414647 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's _optical_ tape that's currently widely used, for high capacity backups < 1586720501 603925 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :magnetic tapes are no longer widely used < 1586720506 649219 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :sceptical < 1586720508 835463 :nona!9db570ae@client-112-174.eduroam.elte.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1586720537 451696 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> object oriented thue < 1586720540 162063 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : error: < 1586720540 269847 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Variable not in scope: object :: t0 -> t1 -> terror: Variable not in sco... < 1586720543 655977 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh boy, what is it now < 1586720549 551458 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tapes are where the magneto-optical recording technology went, isn't it < 1586720549 597725 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :magnetic tape was still widely used for backups fairly recently < 1586720550 348634 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't think magnetic takes ever worked really well for digital data; they were used for analog data as in voice or video because the hardware is cheap, but the tape degraded too quickly < 1586720556 574744 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh ok < 1586720567 209639 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not sure whether people would use "tar" for communicating with it, though!) < 1586720570 865416 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I'm just wrong < 1586720585 187683 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is amazing, but isn't it like < 1586720587 580462 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i think they're still the standard bulk archive medium in industry < 1586720597 902301 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when a P/L is nondeterministic it's not the best idea to let it allow filesystem and stuff < 1586720625 281296 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :thue is only nondeterministic if you let it < 1586720643 227478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get annoyed because most people interpret Thue's "nondeterministic" as "probabilistic" < 1586720653 622214 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I'm pretty sure it's nondeterministic in the CS theory sense, like a nondeterministic finite automaton < 1586720671 347913 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just read it as 'the choice of substitution is implementation-defined' < 1586720673 617443 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this means that most existing Thue interps don't actually interpret it properly < 1586720708 951340 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, I think it's nondeterministic in the third sense, which is that the behavior is underspecified, interpreters choose whatever is the most convenient for them < 1586720712 226488 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : MIT wanted to charge IBM $0.02 per bit royalty on core memory. < 1586720719 254426 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm v much with b here < 1586720735 58094 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, bear in mind that semi-Thue grammars were intended as a computational model < 1586720735 307867 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in the sense where it's probabilistic, nor in the sense where they theoretically find the one succeeding path among exponentially many failing paths < 1586720750 94148 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thue spec doesnt talk about that kind of branching execution anywhere, it's the parsimonious reading < 1586720767 878001 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: having worked in rewriting, I agree with what b_jonas said < 1586720773 158255 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to imagine where computer memories would be today if the royalty payments were 2¢ per bit < 1586720793 763984 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :also NFA semantics are kind of defined in terms of a machine accepting a language which makes no sense given thue's semantics < 1586720803 287094 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why confluence is held in such high regard in the field because it largely says that the reduction strategy doesn't matter. (modulo non-termination issues) < 1586720813 968129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a modern computer would cost 80 billion dollars just in memory royalty payments alone < 1586720821 658825 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although maybe people would write more memory-efficient programs!) < 1586720838 839840 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But maybe you'd also have a paycheck of corresponding size :P < 1586720861 3833 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: you think the problem would be solved using hyperinflation? that's ingenious, but would likely bring its own problems < 1586720910 746004 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :the value of the currency is indexed against the bit < 1586720915 194652 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the true bitcoin < 1586720921 729340 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: <3 < 1586720942 601669 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's But is it art that is nondeterministic in the theoretical CS < 1586721011 860620 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes BIIA? is CS-theory-nondeterministic < 1586721020 899876 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a few other languages like that < 1586721040 372566 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most notably https://esolangs.org/wiki/Precognition, which I feel would be used much more if only I or someone else put in the necessary thought and time to implement it < 1586721062 186691 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: isn't that a patent royalty though, with the patent expiring in like 20 years? < 1586721070 138922 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Let's make that a love parade: ☙♡♥❣❤❥❦❧🂱🎔💓💔💕💖💗💘💞🖤😍 < 1586721100 391904 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: assume the lawyers could figure out some way to extend it :-D < 1586721110 365252 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that isn't legally meant to be possible, but patent law is a mess) < 1586721126 37946 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they could extend it to 30 years. that'd still have expired 30 years ago. < 1586721154 514540 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way to extend it is to make an improved version so people use that instead of the original one, right? < 1586721176 63724 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like they could patent DRAM < 1586721197 963411 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe patent different variants of DRAM < 1586721213 181236 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :patent the version with the sense/inhibit wires combined < 1586721216 127102 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :only of course IBM didn't come up with those < 1586721218 696829 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only when the first patent is running out < 1586721251 14165 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( degauss your core ) < 1586721307 888687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: that would basically just delete the entirety of memory, wouldn't it? < 1586721310 284816 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, its fucked up how there are like 1000 heart emojis but 0 emojis aboutr the boys being back in town < 1586721315 835773 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though wait, isn't most of the RAM made in China these days, and patents don't work there? < 1586721316 307244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :replacing its contents with ½ bits (which are somewhere between 0 bits and 1 bits) < 1586721329 456677 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's a cruel world < 1586721343 908588 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's unclear what happens when a digital memory controller reads a memory cell with a value of ½ < 1586721346 248215 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: of course they work if they want to sell the stuff abroad < 1586721360 35727 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it would be interpreted as either 0 or 1, but whether this is deterministic or not depends on the exact details of the circuitry, I expect < 1586721362 83968 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: China is now patenting more than the US though :P < 1586721373 816155 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: the question is not how much they're patenting < 1586721378 311796 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question is how patents are enforced < 1586721394 716668 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :now im no expert but i believe quantum computing is basically when all your bits split in half and they tell you the prime factors of everyones private keys < 1586721443 320668 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: ask the WIPO. < 1586721468 230510 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the WIPO? < 1586721470 441678 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? WIPO < 1586721472 648308 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :WIPO? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1586721478 228332 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You didn't have to elaborate after "im no expert" ;) < 1586721506 454135 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :World "Intellectual Property" Organization < 1586721512 787399 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I see < 1586721515 151109 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think they prefer it without the quotes) < 1586721533 482834 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can put the quotes in other places too < 1586721539 474078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"World" Intellectual Property Organization < 1586721544 386925 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :World Intellectual Property "Organization" < 1586721544 547779 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ yes, because of China < 1586721549 537232 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are probably less accurate, but it's fun < 1586721559 621030 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I like the former < 1586721579 635634 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :world "intellectual" property organisation < 1586721590 447546 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :these frauds couldnt tell their picassos from their nabokovs < 1586721604 493620 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :World Intellectual "Property" Organization works too in some sense < 1586721610 370889 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because it is about the so-called "developed countries" exploiting the so-called "developing countries" < 1586721613 412660 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1586721772 818253 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: where are you? < 1586721862 725352 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a guy has inboxed me a few minutes ago < 1586721870 690613 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's made a proof-of-concept asm2bf IDE < 1586721899 592010 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with language server, linter, syntax checking, formatter, syntax highlighting and code completion < 1586721908 148485 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"inbox, v. ???" < 1586721921 306200 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's getting hillariously serious by now < 1586721944 542063 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( Don't blame Hillary for that one ) < 1586722003 80134 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how many brainfuck IDEs the world needs < 1586722010 540781 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :esotericide is probably enough by itself < 1586722021 624115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now there's another one? < 1586722036 731276 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: so this like plugs into MS visual studio? < 1586722043 524299 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Eclipse or whatever? < 1586722050 258978 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :standalone IDE < 1586722052 258236 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :terminal-based < 1586722116 356577 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:50f3:115d:996a:2dbb PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: did you find Chaitin's thesis online? < 1586722133 512393 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: not recently < 1586722221 802955 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.83.177.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like IDE plugins since some time now. A major IDE is usually well-debugged, functional etc., and to write it all from scratch? oh no. And usually the support for this or that language needs not as much work, for it to be done with quality, if writing it as a plugin for an existing IDE < 1586722226 421619 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.83.177.dynamic.ufanet.ru NICK :arseniiv < 1586722229 775465 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:50f3:115d:996a:2dbb PRIVMSG #esoteric :the programs on https://int-e.eu/~bf3/AIT/ are not accompanied by the theorems they're proving < 1586722239 111767 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.177.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hadn’t written any plugins yet, though < 1586722246 598959 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586722291 264838 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: the statements are in the notes. < 1586722303 805637 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all very much preliminary < 1586722322 776933 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:50f3:115d:996a:2dbb PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1586722446 844329 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv, a language server makes it easy to plug asm2bf to vscode for instance < 1586722536 843268 :nona!9db570ae@client-112-174.eduroam.elte.hu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586722638 770173 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: I seriously looked into VS Code's language server / plugin architecture < 1586722641 683826 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate it < 1586722656 1699 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use VSCode, problem solved < 1586722662 911006 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meme made by Vim gang < 1586722691 121867 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I really do like the idea of having a standard for communication between editors and programming language implementations < 1586722702 654630 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just really don't like the details of the Language Server Protocol < 1586722712 668131 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't need key combinations to pilot a car. this post was made by the nano gang. < 1586722735 421819 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the existence of a current standard that's bad is really frustrating, because it reduces the chance of getting a good standard (because you don't want two standards coexisting) < 1586722913 251902 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Quit: quit < 1586722938 956067 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mediocre is the enemy of good? < 1586722960 860655 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It seriously is. I wonder whether it's something people commonly say.) < 1586723014 173003 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: people say it both ways < 1586723035 72793 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@82.27.195.88 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586723035 195959 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@82.27.195.88 QUIT :Changing host < 1586723035 195997 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1586723048 187907 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do know the "perfect is the enemy of good" version is a thing. < 1586723072 760587 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1586723080 163638 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :every Language Server Protocol message must be prefixed by "Content-Length:", then a decimal number indicating the length, then two \r\n pairs, then a JSON object which contains the key/value pair "jsonrpc": "2.0" < 1586723098 111966 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a crazy amount of overhead for every single message, much of it redundant < 1586723133 401952 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, this is the first time I've seen a string format which is somehow delimited and length-prefixed at the same time (the delimiter used to determine where the length ends) < 1586723144 530871 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it specify a maximum length of the first line? < 1586723169 329685 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1586723186 994268 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor is there a theoretical maximum length, because JSON allows arbitrary amounts of whitespace < 1586723188 707279 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Content-Length: 00000000000000000000000000000000000000...0000000000000000042\r\n < 1586723207 83895 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, or that :-D < 1586723212 654090 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how VS Code would react to that < 1586723214 234645 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah, there are HTTP clients that have bugs with stuff like that < 1586723228 570665 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: color me unsurprised < 1586723248 25471 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.177.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric ::((( I hoped VS Code would be better than this, ow < 1586723256 45023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: this isn't even the worst bit < 1586723260 108112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember what the worst bit was < 1586723267 705859 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and am unsure whether I should keep reading the specification to rediscover it < 1586723271 803318 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like they receive FFFFFFFFFF\r\n for chunked encoding chunk header, and they try to allocate terabytes of memory and crash < 1586723274 71918 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.177.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe < 1586723341 947013 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I hope what's inside is actuall a json-rpc message at least. < 1586723367 759146 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it's a compatible format, so yes < 1586723381 827789 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which mandates that version field) < 1586723391 758234 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://dailyvoice.com/new-jersey/mercer/obituaries/covid-19-kills-renowned-princeton-mathematician-game-of-life-inventor-john-conway-in-3-days/786461/ < 1586723392 681719 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it uses a subset of json-rpc, but defines the API in such a way that the remaining functionality could never be used) < 1586723411 267796 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Wikipedia considers this source sufficient) < 1586723423 609779 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: ouch < 1586723461 571226 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP John H Conway < 1586723478 937261 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been confirmed? damn.. < 1586723483 736976 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: still based on the tweets we've already seen it seems > 1586723523 159948 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Omnifuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70942&oldid=44612 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title < 1586723531 653680 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :another great Mathematician lost after Jiří Matoušek, Marvin Minsky, and Raymond Smullyan < 1586723550 96930 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :man fuck it was covid too? < 1586723557 692250 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: Well, there's a tweet by a Princeton guy who presumably has first-hand information, so there isn't too much doubt. < 1586723595 536356 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: But the article does not indicate any information beyond that. < 1586723601 808014 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it turns out to be the same thing as 2015 it's gonna be hilarious. < 1586723615 710074 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm expecting an update at https://www.math.princeton.edu/ next week. < 1586723617 376415 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happened in 2015? < 1586723631 57881 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :his death was reported, and he was like "uh, I'm still here." < 1586723645 535365 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc. < 1586723654 864431 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that was April 1st. < 1586723665 404231 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. forgot the date. < 1586723670 775410 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, not during a pandemic < 1586723676 171385 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.177.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor Conway :( < 1586723676 553205 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't really see how an obituary could've appeared with details like him getting a fever and dying in 3 days without being deliberately made up whole cloth < 1586723722 762136 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait lol this means he was about the same age as kenny rogers < 1586723729 160407 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the first story of covid-19 killing old people quickly (and without severe symptoms) that I've read these days. < 1586723752 133840 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder what secrets he kept in his head. < 1586723779 792052 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I hope this story is made up, at least; jokes in bad taste are bad, but people dying is worse < 1586723808 135688 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's starting to get harder to deny that he's dead. here's hoping he's not and we have a laugh about it. < 1586723811 247894 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would more or less write off that chance tbh < 1586723825 274358 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean people die anyway, especially when they're 81 < 1586723844 572952 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ordinary people. not ones like Conway. < 1586723852 781421 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.177.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: maybe whether the Euler—Mascheroni γ is rational or not < 1586723861 887451 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: 82 acturally < 1586723875 66745 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rrrrrally. < 1586723890 877489 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :rrrrrrrr < 1586723904 415254 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :81 would have been smoother < 1586723969 400725 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah that is 82 < 1586724083 642739 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586724175 84326 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1586724217 993667 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds > 1586725570 756274 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* 10moved [[02Owhelgossip10]] to [[OwhelGossip]]: fix capitalization > 1586725570 899388 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* 10moved [[02Talk:Owhelgossip10]] to [[Talk:OwhelGossip]]: fix capitalization > 1586725808 113808 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Indent14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=70947 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+4914) 10Named after function blocks > 1586725811 296023 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70948&oldid=70928 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-2354) 10this language? > 1586725862 735095 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70949&oldid=70917 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+13) 10/* Languages */ > 1586725885 353186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70950&oldid=70881 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+13) 10/* I */ Indent < 1586726257 795056 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.177.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds > 1586727317 338877 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Owl14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70951&oldid=55994 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title > 1586727416 559978 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OwoScript14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70952&oldid=60044 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title < 1586727535 421824 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric > 1586727687 323880 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07P14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70953&oldid=11661 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+38) 10/* External resources */ fixed link < 1586727720 8346 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586727723 332321 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life > 1586728161 382821 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PHL 1.014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70954&oldid=53786 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+78) 10fixed links > 1586729287 367044 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* 10moved [[02Pac10]] to [[PAC]]: fix capitalization < 1586729734 719511 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586730104 354040 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric > 1586730215 529442 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Parenthetic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70957&oldid=32099 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+0) 10fixed capitalization based on repo < 1586730354 354666 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586730483 931028 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1586730514 155868 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/life-2 SMBC did an obituary strip already < 1586730524 794074 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'll see what xkcd posts a day from now < 1586731655 743742 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=4732 obituary by Scott Aaronson < 1586731944 812472 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :comments section has reactions by other people < 1586731971 441683 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also https://terrytao.wordpress.com/2020/04/12/john-conway/ > 1586732255 145108 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pile.js14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70958&oldid=46341 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title < 1586732969 483912 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1586733062 272451 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :should we do something to https://esolangs.org/wiki/John_Horton_Conway ? < 1586733488 867737 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the obvious is -> was. < 1586733663 991342 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's sad < 1586733698 960464 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP :( < 1586734061 223143 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: (\1 1 1) (\\2 (2 (1 2))) is not a winner, it has a normal form of size 4186155666, which the reduction engine in the blc tool can actually compute in a few minutes. < 1586734125 708036 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 3^27 / 4186155666 < 1586734128 402246 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1821.6230100858843 < 1586734154 747955 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (6*3^27+5) / 4186155666 -- small margin < 1586734157 480954 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 10929.7380605165 < 1586734164 476625 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm < 1586734171 288467 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (5*3^27+6) / 4186155666 < 1586734173 541328 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 9108.115050430855 < 1586734283 300565 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: which is disappointing because I spent quite some effort on working with smaller terms, only to find that it was all manageable from the outset. > 1586734311 845594 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07HaltJS14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70959&oldid=69384 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10 > 1586734339 569681 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70960&oldid=70949 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+13) 10 > 1586734385 342047 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70961&oldid=70950 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+13) 10/* H */ < 1586734417 999061 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds > 1586735597 482359 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pointer-ng14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70962&oldid=45230 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+20) 10fixed title < 1586736107 729901 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf JOIN :#esoteric < 1586736153 390912 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Imquk_3oFf4 is pretty impressive. > 1586736374 828889 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Pointless.14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=70963 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+384) 10Created page with "It might be a good idea to call this "Pointless (Qpliu)" or something to make it more explicit that the language name does not include a literal period. (Potentially, Pointl..." < 1586737845 985412 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does someone play Magic: the Gathering with draft and duplicate sealed both together? < 1586737986 880135 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1586738155 897816 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printf14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70964&oldid=68188 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title > 1586738739 5466 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Probie14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70965&oldid=69686 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (-8) 10fixed link < 1586738893 694898 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One idea I thought of for Magic: the Gathering, is there is meld to make a single object from two objects, which are then two objects again when it leaves the battlefield, so I thought the other way would be something that causes the card to become two objects once it enters the battlefield, and then moving either or both of them causes it to become a single object again. < 1586739094 579790 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is even more confusing, I think, but perhaps rules can be written which can work. < 1586739304 763877 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought, each half can have different characteristics, timestamps, controller, counters, status, damage, etc, but never different owners or zone. > 1586739684 102137 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PyText?!.14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70966&oldid=53077 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+17) 10fixed code block > 1586740089 642591 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* 10moved [[02Q-Bal10]] to [[Q-BAL]]: fix capitalization > 1586740120 191039 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Q-BAL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70969&oldid=70967 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+0) 10fixed capitalization < 1586740179 710031 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is in case two effects conflict in which zone they are trying to move the two halfs to. < 1586740506 954722 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, I think there are solutions to this too. One is the case of replacement effects, in which case the normal rules for replacement effects apply. The other case is if an effect tries to move one half to one zone and the other have to another zone, then it moves to the first zone, and the other half is no longer in the battlefield so the effect fails to find it and fails to move it. < 1586741494 788141 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric > 1586741522 967214 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07QKAS14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70970&oldid=45919 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+54) 10fixed links < 1586742362 726940 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Excess Flood < 1586742378 262183 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric > 1586743090 472011 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Qwertyuiopasdfghjkl;vb14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70971&oldid=56020 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title < 1586743259 801850 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What file formats allow for one file that can be read in multiple formats? < 1586744050 112518 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you explain better what you mean, perhaps? < 1586744367 567406 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: you mean like a polyglot? < 1586744393 767701 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main restriction is that the two formats can't require conflicting bytes at the same byte position (e.g. magic numbers that clash) < 1586744401 624337 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, like a file format polygot, png and something else for instance. I copuld have sworn I saw one in a book about web securit < 1586744402 631275 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1586744422 439890 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally, if there isn't something that obviously blocks it like that, you can make it work < 1586744438 438542 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vaguely remember that zip has its header at the end, so zip/something polyglots are common < 1586744490 139213 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1586744498 241014 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows PE files don't have their header at the beginning, if I remember correctly? < 1586744501 569151 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow this format is stupid < 1586744526 809305 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the zip file header comes at the end of the file, but its last field is free text (length-prefixed), it's variable length, and the header is at the start < 1586744539 508318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this implies among other things that it's possible to polyglot zip with itself without violating the format < 1586744542 423079 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s oyou get an ambiguous zip file < 1586744593 956251 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: there are two headers, one is the "MZ" magic number that has to go at the start but just indicates a DOS/Windows executable in general, there's a second header at a fixed offset that clarifies what sort of executable < 1586744612 425312 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could have PNG and ZIP together; I have done that. < 1586744627 86789 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, maybe the MZ is still required, which would make sense. < 1586744644 138495 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I vaguely remember something about a PE polyglot of some sort. < 1586744658 662544 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"MZ" is probably short enough to work into a polyglot with something else < 1586744664 360145 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :source code, for example < 1586744693 990991 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow, could you create source code that compiles into itself? < 1586744696 994039 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sort of compile-time quine < 1586744719 372052 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Treating the compiler as an interpreter. > 1586744765 499194 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rand.Next()14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70972&oldid=31579 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title < 1586744778 646005 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect it wouldn't be possible with typical architectures and languages. < 1586744778 780540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you could go further and make the resulting executable print itself when actually run, too < 1586744806 528232 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that languages have a fixed executable stub, normally, which clearly isn't valid source code < 1586744818 419150 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least if we're talking about Windows .exe < 1586744831 35961 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could generate .com < 1586744831 272688 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not sure what sort of linker magic you'd need to replace it < 1586744837 500578 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :.com would be a lot easier, yes < 1586744841 352792 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :COM format DOS programs do not have MZ at the beginning; it is x86 instructions. < 1586744865 818717 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But even that doesn't sound very feasible with most languages. < 1586744891 625576 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just need to start a comment in one or the other language as soon as possible < 1586744942 189340 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1586744970 266455 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, '/' isn't a valid machine code instruction on x86 < 1586744976 284445 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, on x86_64 < 1586744982 517770 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :.com is 32-bit, though, it might be valid there < 1586745020 436844 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, it is < 1586745022 156303 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'm wrong < 1586745024 614878 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :.com is 16-bit < 1586745050 830273 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, https://www.felixcloutier.com/x86/das < 1586745053 583907 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "/*" corresponds to DAS followed by the first byte of a SUB instruction < 1586745055 353696 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can live with that < 1586745126 914001 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually we can't, short of inline asm < 1586745134 375046 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess inline asm is acceptable in a challenge like this < 1586745147 398520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or defining main as raw machine code, I guess < 1586745157 11189 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought your input would be assembly in the first place. < 1586745163 32393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I was thinking C < 1586745170 820042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if very system-specific C < 1586745215 318149 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :; is CMP < 1586745302 512475 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww, I have a 16-bit compiler on this system but it seems to be missing the appropriate libraries to compile to DOS .com < 1586745322 563068 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the next question is "why do I have a 16-bit C compiler on this system" but I assume there was a reason at the time < 1586745361 773587 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes K&R C as input; again I'm not entirely sure why < 1586745368 881703 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in my test program I had to correct "int main(void)" to "int main()" < 1586745387 608210 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`asm cmp eax, [rax] < 1586745388 717253 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :0: 3b 00 cmp eax,DWORD PTR [rax] < 1586745393 141248 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat ../bin/asm < 1586745393 957474 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ echo "$1" > /tmp/asm.s; for o in ',' '-msyntax=intel -mnaked-reg,-M intel'; do if as ${o%,*} /tmp/asm.s -o /tmp/asm.o 2>>/tmp/asm.err; then objdump ${o#*,} -d --insn-width=20 /tmp/asm.o | sed -e "1,/0000000000000000/d" | perl -pe 'if (/^\s*(\w+:)\s*((?:\w\w )+)\s*(\S.*)$/) { ($a,$b,$c) = ($1,$2,$3); $_ = "$a $b ".($c =~ s/\s+/ /rg)."\n"; }'; exit; fi; done; cat /tmp/asm.err < 1586745423 961829 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you want most of the machine code program to be inside a string literal or comment from the point of view of the asm, and most of the asm to be goto'd over from the machine code program < 1586745437 749007 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1586745449 913082 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of ; comments in an assembler. < 1586745472 555190 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's easy enough if your language allows unprintable characters in comments, which I was thinking it wouldn't for some reason. < 1586745595 733556 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that depends on the lexer more than anything else < 1586745607 271220 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :many languages even allow unprintables in string literals > 1586745822 205496 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Redivider14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70973&oldid=25372 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+36) 10/* External resources */ fixed link < 1586746109 247306 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is different assembly language for different computer and also different assembly language for the same computer too. < 1586746800 629872 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 QUIT :Quit: I seem to have stopped. > 1586746837 835318 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Revomer14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70974&oldid=20094 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+50) 10/* External resources */ fixed links < 1586746898 337491 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586747509 917154 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure I understand the .zip header thing. Can I have another format's magic at the end still? < 1586747530 166233 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WorldsPlayer .world files always begin with PERSISTER Worlds, Inc. < 1586747536 235017 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and end with END PERSISTER < 1586747667 378128 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: I don't know about ZIP. What I do know though is that you can append a ZIP archive to another file. < 1586747935 26089 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turns out WorldsPlayer doesn't actually read past END PERSISTER. Thank you zzo38 > 1586748106 543659 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rflct14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70975&oldid=37107 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title < 1586748123 575037 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It didn't work < 1586748176 111484 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, you're saying this should result in a valid zip? cat WorldsPlayer-956.world WorldsPlayer-956.zip > WorldsPlayer-9567.zip < 1586748247 511737 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, although it is possible that some programs might not recognize it. It also might not work if the code that identifies the beginning of a ZIP file is found somewhere inside the WorldsPlayer file (it is "PK\x03\x04") < 1586748369 923177 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not the case here, so why isn't it opening < 1586748409 64832 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh maybe because what you said < 1586748448 412735 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another possibility might be that the index at the end of the file requires absolute offsets, although I don't know whether or not that is the case. < 1586748496 5488 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't think so; I seem to remember I have once concatenated a PNG and ZIP together and was able to open it with either a PNG or ZIP program just fine. < 1586748683 816187 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not sure I understand the .zip header thing. Can I have another format's magic at the end still? ← yes, the last field of the .zip header (which goes at the end of the file) is "comment", which gives you room to stick another magic number in there < 1586748718 382523 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the .zip file header references other parts of the file relative to the /start/ of the file, so a pure concatenation won't work < 1586748730 397176 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...how did unzip work? < 1586748738 380694 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can append to a .zip file without rewriting the first part of the file, but that requires small changes to the second part < 1586748754 682368 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I misremembered; I don't know < 1586748758 943679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: as far as I can tell from the specification, the format is ambiguous; you can write one file that's valid as a zip file in two different ways < 1586748765 462260 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so presumably unzip has to pick one arbitrarily > 1586748766 439982 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rogex14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70976&oldid=70840 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (-181) 10/* Interpreter */ fixed code block < 1586748803 361493 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, maybe different implementations work differently. That is also who I was unable to unzip a PDF/ZIP combination file with one program but another program worked, I suppose. < 1586748942 199951 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :warning [WorldsPlayer-9567.zip]: 2438 extra bytes at beginning or within zipfile < 1586748942 358350 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : (attempting to process anyway) < 1586749739 35354 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-171-136.cdrr.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) > 1586750357 345972 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Cool14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70977&oldid=66898 5* 03Hdjensofjfnen 5* (+31) 10 < 1586751700 245437 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-171-136.cdrr.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586752532 211437 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:555f:5c86:5c01:1259 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds > 1586752576 735598 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Underload/Numbers14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70978&oldid=65919 5* 03CatIsFluffy 5* (-7) 10This is a little embarrassing (up to 11 verified optimal under 1000 steps and 4998 stack characters > 1586753176 750771 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Underload/Numbers14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70979&oldid=70978 5* 03CatIsFluffy 5* (-14) 10Trivial improvements > 1586753210 705613 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Underload/Numbers14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70980&oldid=70979 5* 03CatIsFluffy 5* (-2) 10I swear this is the last one of this round < 1586753248 217897 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:1c6b:a87d:8b4f:2427 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586753798 507338 :hashtar!~mindor@xdsl-31-164-50-69.adslplus.ch JOIN :#esoteric < 1586753805 885366 :hashtar!~mindor@xdsl-31-164-50-69.adslplus.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ma friendz < 1586753823 863967 :hashtar!~mindor@xdsl-31-164-50-69.adslplus.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone have a knowledge about angels pls help me! < 1586753922 239434 :hashtar!~mindor@xdsl-31-164-50-69.adslplus.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaa neeed knowledge about two specific angels < 1586753935 632546 :hashtar!~mindor@xdsl-31-164-50-69.adslplus.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a voice in my head a man/woman voice speaking to me from depth < 1586753937 895539 :hashtar!~mindor@xdsl-31-164-50-69.adslplus.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it? < 1586753998 251767 :hashtar!~mindor@xdsl-31-164-50-69.adslplus.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :step two forward and three left and own down to the right < 1586754001 338050 :hashtar!~mindor@xdsl-31-164-50-69.adslplus.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :where are you? < 1586754019 837409 :hashtar!~mindor@xdsl-31-164-50-69.adslplus.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats called the flash of lights < 1586754025 919085 :hashtar!~mindor@xdsl-31-164-50-69.adslplus.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :into the pit > 1586754090 322055 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Underload/Numbers14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70981&oldid=70980 5* 03CatIsFluffy 5* (-1) 10Sorry > 1586754108 749476 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Underload/Numbers14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70982&oldid=70981 5* 03CatIsFluffy 5* (-2) 10Not this again < 1586754305 559865 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? esoteric < 1586754310 5658 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet. > 1586754430 858800 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Underload/Numbers14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70983&oldid=70982 5* 03Ais523 5* (+37) 10cat; the category is arguably misnamed but it's our usual category for things like this < 1586756079 195228 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have knowledge about angels, and I doubt many people here do, nor do I understand what you are talking about. < 1586756110 667590 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You could try EFnet or DALnet, like the message from HackEso says, I suppose. Maybe they know, and if they don't know either, then I don't know who to ask; sorry.) < 1586756191 919042 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is anyone think something about my idea I mentioned about the Magic: the Gathering? I thought to call it "fission", so, it is a fission card. < 1586756560 226996 :hashtar!~mindor@xdsl-31-164-50-69.adslplus.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1586756563 945951 :hashtar!~mindor@xdsl-31-164-50-69.adslplus.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for your help < 1586756923 712464 :Maitor!~goban@gateway/tor-sasl/maitor QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586757064 760342 :Maitor!~goban@gateway/tor-sasl/maitor JOIN :#esoteric < 1586757260 645231 :mniip!mniip@freenode/staff/mniip JOIN :#esoteric < 1586761472 868452 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586761681 787776 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1586762043 617081 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1586762063 990161 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1586762332 3424 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586764114 320208 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586765237 903504 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586765354 918486 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Welcome to the international hatchery for [...] egg-plants"? < 1586765366 17029 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with eggplants < 1586765399 300854 :hashtar!~mindor@xdsl-31-164-50-69.adslplus.ch QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1586765842 830166 :hashtar!~mindor@xdsl-31-164-50-69.adslplus.ch JOIN :#esoteric > 1586767411 495232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Asm2bf14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70984&oldid=70783 5* 03Palaiologos 5* (-843) 10Major cleanup < 1586769816 132611 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586770006 882460 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586770551 86364 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586770834 460218 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586770844 378981 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586770923 96498 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1586771045 987928 :kapilavashtu!~kapilavas@185.3.172.237 JOIN :#esoteric > 1586771815 880266 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:GDavid14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70985&oldid=57391 5* 03GDavid 5* (+15) 10Stopwatch > 1586772247 619775 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07List of ideas14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70986&oldid=70578 5* 03GDavid 5* (+17) 10/* Based on dimensions */ < 1586773730 828547 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.177.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1586774104 715139 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.177.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi what did I miss^W^W^W^W < 1586776063 475829 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but the slash doesn't have to be the first byte of the instruction < 1586777109 111088 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586777499 621439 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spam subject line of the day: "Re: Best human hair" < 1586777659 293915 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@82.27.195.88 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586777659 402302 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@82.27.195.88 QUIT :Changing host < 1586777659 402353 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1586778383 320737 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1586779791 984644 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@82.27.195.88 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586779815 751647 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@82.27.195.88 NICK :Guest48241 < 1586781789 900106 :hashtar!~mindor@xdsl-31-164-50-69.adslplus.ch QUIT : > 1586782921 369984 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ser214]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70987&oldid=52441 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title < 1586785299 832861 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1586786228 347360 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586786474 983471 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-146-112-4.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1586787001 972301 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-146-112-4.natnow.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1586787419 783978 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1586788346 230487 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:50f3:115d:996a:2dbb PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i don't understand the step from line 108 to 109 in latest BB.txt < 1586788376 819875 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:50f3:115d:996a:2dbb PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i pushed some commits) > 1586789547 159218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Slistp14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70988&oldid=20914 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title < 1586789689 178873 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: this yes, some files can contain fixed strings that help users identify the type of file, but aren't actually read by the reader, so they're optional. < 1586789733 341354 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :eg. many of my perl or python scripts start with a shebang line that is not really used for anything but helpful as a programmer < 1586789745 104377 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!perl or #!python3 < 1586790086 453365 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't shebangs supposed to be absolute paths? < 1586790109 722888 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why you are seeing /bin/env python or the like < 1586790121 14417 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: if you want to execute the script directly then yes < 1586790128 804765 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't do that, I execute them with perl or python3 < 1586790141 300956 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl still reads command-line options from there < 1586790154 47766 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and python has a py wrapper that reads the version number (python2 vs python3) and a bit more < 1586790161 55909 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't really use those features < 1586790170 946306 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are just mostly for convenience as a human < 1586790190 206602 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the .pl extension is terribly ambiguous < 1586790207 268488 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :at one point I wondered if we should just use .pm as the extension of all perl scripts < 1586790403 359424 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \x y -> y x < 1586790403 444038 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip id < 1586790419 403880 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :together with Perl and Prolog that's at least three meanings of pl < 1586790435 423667 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that too, yes < 1586790441 692887 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I think there are circumstances under which shebangs work without the / < 1586790451 485884 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it probably depends a lot on the shell and OS < 1586790470 171083 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some UNIXes which treat the magic number for an executable as "#! /" (four bytes) < 1586790478 916560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why I typically put a space in my shebangs < 1586790487 296242 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though I think that's an obsolete way of doing it < 1586790487 591063 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know that < 1586790494 233850 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never put a space < 1586790523 62995 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just like shebang as a human-readable way to declare the type of a file, even to people not familiar with that file format < 1586790546 194878 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously there are many formats where it doesn't work because they have a magic number at the start < 1586790565 866952 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but file formats could be designed such that the magic number isn't at the start, so you can put a short comment at the start < 1586790618 869027 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially esoteric file formats < 1586790619 322115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : It has been claimed that some old versions of Unix expect the normal shebang to be followed by a space and a slash (#! /), but this appears to be untrue;[citation needed] < 1586790620 333863 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that makes things even more interesting < 1586790621 314031 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially the {{cn}} > 1586790651 410590 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Small14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70989&oldid=62150 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (-571) 10rewrapped code blocks < 1586790745 706142 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1586790766 535678 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a work-in-progress version of Underlambda I put a shebang /in/ the magic number < 1586790766 535730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was controversial < 1586790767 231472 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586790775 73900 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does linux even allow a space between the shebang and the interpreter filename, for the purpose of plain execve? < 1586790807 723291 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh also, it can be worth to design a file format such that it at least ignores a shebang line < 1586790835 996829 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :modern shell scripts already have that property, as well as perl and python scripts < 1586790840 365175 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586790849 651446 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I believe it does < 1586790872 930429 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the larger reasons for # comments is so that they're shebang-compatible < 1586790875 432921 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: how are you defining busy beaver in BB.txt? < 1586790884 458284 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are some languages that don't have # comments, but ignore the first line if it starts with #! < 1586790902 928541 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, I think that's backwards, the shebang magic bytes were chosen because they're compatible with shell script comments < 1586790960 243292 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: can't both be true? < 1586790976 354309 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:50f3:115d:996a:2dbb PRIVMSG #esoteric :kritixilithos: see https://mathoverflow.net/questions/353514/whats-the-smallest-lambda-calculus-term-not-known-to-have-a-normal-form < 1586790980 442400 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :new language uses # comments, to be compatible with other tooling that assumes # comments < 1586791095 773224 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: probably, for some new languages < 1586791127 838809 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's a pity that C preprocessors don't ignore the #! line, not even if you use a double slash at the start of the path < 1586791153 495171 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's probably no way to start a C source file with a shebang < 1586791384 268569 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586791458 271078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586791465 74620 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not until someone adds an extension to the C preprocessor where #! is a null directive < 1586792015 860526 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: i see, thanks < 1586792031 306321 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? blind alley < 1586792033 394731 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :blind alley? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1586793035 328659 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1586793562 142768 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-234-164-48.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :#! just gives me an warning < 1586793590 464163 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1586793636 739383 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-234-164-48.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, that's because I'm using tcc < 1586793651 773366 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-234-164-48.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol I forgot that my "cc" command is tcc < 1586793667 165503 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-234-164-48.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc throws an error < 1586793712 771747 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1586793745 579452 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-234-164-48.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :tcc supports shebang lines so you can have executable C "scripts" < 1586793747 94215 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you invoke cc ? I always invoke gcc or g++ directly, rather than cc and c++ < 1586793764 73095 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586793838 328450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: based on experience with the megapolyglot, we believe the most portable way to start a program is with a "pre-preprocessed #line directive" < 1586793846 691884 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which looks like # then a number then a string < 1586793856 229351 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for a pre-processed file, sure < 1586793862 75018 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pre-processed C file < 1586793868 385902 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then you can't use the preprocessor < 1586793875 835250 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: most C compilers are happy to accept pre-preprocessed input and will preprocess it a second time < 1586793882 770798 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't hurt the polyglot much, but in real world C source files I want to use preprocessor directives < 1586793896 612300 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait really? they just accept a line directive? < 1586793897 201866 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1586793901 536223 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as are, oddly, many implementations for languages other than C, even if they don't normally use the C preprocessor < 1586793903 635796 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean an output line directive < 1586793936 462161 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, just tested < 1586793957 709168 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1586793959 419079 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :# 1 "hello.c" \ int main(void) { \ puts("Hello, world!"); \ } < 1586793973 452526 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiled under gcc I get a warning for "hello.c" even though the file is named something else, about the implicit definition of puts < 1586793980 100386 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the resulting executable works fine < 1586793984 814265 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, that doesn't actually have a preprocessor directive like #include after the line directive < 1586794010 643260 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I added a preprocessor directive, and it was honoured < 1586794014 920247 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1586794028 194427 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not surprising, how would it know to turn the preprocessor off when it encountered the compiled-#line? < 1586794053 951747 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. I just expected that the output preprocessor line would give an error in the preprocessor < 1586794065 287461 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works in clang too: https://tio.run/#c-clang < 1586794067 499052 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1586794074 95435 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://tio.run/##S9ZNzknMS///X1nBUEEpIzUnJ18vWYlLOSU1LTMvVaG4pLRAoaC0pJgrM69EITcxM0@jLD8zRVOhmksBLKmh5AHSo6NQnl@Uk6KopGnNVcv1/z8A < 1586794102 265321 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tcc: https://tio.run/##S9YtSU7@/19ZwVBBKSM1JydfL1mJSzklNS0zL1WhuKS0QKGgtKSYKzOvRCE3MTNPoyw/M0VToZpLASypoeQB0qOjUJ5flJOiqKRpzVXL9f8/AA < 1586794108 16609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've run out of C compilers to check on TIO now, though < 1586794237 616147 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, for ages the polyglot started with a compiled-#line directive then /* < 1586794252 468367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which causes a huge number of languages to temporarily suspend the parser < 1586794255 808105 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://rextester.com can compile with MSVC :-) < 1586794277 155195 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the filename was chosen to put lots of esolangs into a comment / string literal / large jump, too) < 1586794324 656556 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :source_file.c(1): error C2019: expected preprocessor directive, found '1' < 1586794326 194129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1586794349 320719 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what version of MSVC it runs though < 1586794352 334617 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it wouldn't be the first time MSVC didn't follow a de-facto standard that nonetheless wasn't an actual standard < 1586794359 514153 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft (R) C/C++ Optimizing Compiler Version 19.00.23506 for x64 < 1586794375 24598 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's recent < 1586794375 773782 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1586794546 968862 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-234-164-48.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah when I compile things I use cc typically, i think because one of my first computers had gcc installed as "cc" and didn't accept a "gcc" command < 1586794560 151139 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1586794603 464929 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-234-164-48.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's really weird is now you see people with clang installed as "gcc" < 1586794635 14201 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not too weird, clang is pretty closely compatible to gcc < 1586794707 847932 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-234-164-48.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what that means is, "gcc" has become so intrenched as "the command to compile stuff" < 1586794736 886425 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-234-164-48.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cc has been forgoten, even though it's one less letter to type < 1586794752 472217 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, because before linux and gcc got so spread, there were computers with separate cc and gcc commands. that's why autoconf scripts try gcc first, before cc < 1586794781 468712 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also now there's c99 as a command name too < 1586794797 529599 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of POSIX or something like that < 1586794847 211048 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: my first UNIXish environment had cc as provided by the OS manufacturer, it wasn't gcc < 1586794878 868137 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also had c99 but I didn't discover that for ages, and it was presented as though it were an entirely separate program from cc (although of course they probably shared a lot of code) < 1586794903 571697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I still think of cc as being "the OS stock C compiler" and gcc as being a specific C compiler < 1586794914 71685 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and on Linux, assume that the two are the same, as gcc is the standard C compiler on Linux < 1586794920 221365 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but this doesn't hold on other Unices) < 1586794949 731101 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as glibc is also the standard on linuxes, but it might be one of the other brands of libc that imitate glibc < 1586794974 291482 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"gcc" on Mac OS X is normally actually clang, isn't it, nowadays? < 1586794998 302788 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm interested in what "cc" typically is on BSD < 1586795016 387135 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :may depend on which BSD < 1586795035 21341 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering about that < 1586795075 883212 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised that BSD doesn't get more attention, actually; it's a perfectly solid OS and for most programs, it's very comparable to Linux, with easy porting both ways < 1586795132 601934 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardware compatibility, probably < 1586795168 371019 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sort-of makes sense, I assume it has a smaller community of driver-writers < 1586795184 469850 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd expect the hardware compatibility to be at least decent on older machines, though < 1586795304 468132 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect that BSD doesn't get much attention because it's non-proselytizing, or however that word is called, that is, there is a small community of people who use BSD, but they aren't actively trying to convince other people to also use BSD, whereas Linux fanatics try to convince people to use Linux all the time < 1586795341 669117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, when programmers proselytize, they often do so by writing code to make things more user-friendly < 1586795353 605 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gozqrwsxdmwuenlw JOIN :#esoteric < 1586795382 117977 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the good kind, yes < 1586795493 642368 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus I think it's also that at least some BSD activity focuses on using BSD in servers and routers and the like < 1586795518 517036 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than workstations or mobile phones < 1586795540 109415 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, assuming you aren't on Windows: http://localhost:631 < 1586795552 87219 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind-of hope that thing's firewalled by default < 1586795586 838699 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :just look at https://www.pcbsd.org , they used to brand themselves as a FreeBSD variant useful as a desktop environment for ordinary home users, but the distribution has disappeared or got renamed, and they now target servers < 1586795600 829599 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's one way to make a semi-major part of an operating system OS-independent but it still seems really weird < 1586795602 94163 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is that the printer server? < 1586795629 524812 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have anything running on that port here < 1586795652 497188 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes < 1586795660 700109 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it even has Apple branding < 1586795665 800052 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite me being on Linux < 1586795703 209353 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to contain a list of everything I've ever printed, too < 1586795715 895588 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although I hardly ever print things so it's quite short) < 1586796564 798596 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder what the greatest proportion of the set of all bytestrings is, such that after all common sorts of encoding-related damage, the original string can be uniquely reconstructed < 1586796597 915162 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously sticking to printable ASCII survives all common forms of encoding-related damage, but I think you safely can expand this into some of the control codes and high-bit-set characters < 1586796619 771908 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but not all of them, because you need to be able to, e.g., distinguish an unchanged source from mojibake) > 1586796687 466465 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Stacked Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70990&oldid=39483 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+36) 10/* Implementation */ fixed link < 1586796731 1559 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that may depend on what you count as encoding-related. does word-wrapping count? HTML turning whitespace sequences to single spaces? < 1586796753 885916 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :old forums that output HTML from wiki-like input that change some spaces to nbsp? < 1586796887 39436 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think all those examples count < 1586796895 659273 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so sticking to printable ASCII is not in fact enough < 1586796905 754573 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(another encoding-related issue that can happen in printable ASCII: & becoming &) < 1586796950 219597 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes, that too < 1586796978 719040 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also the case of stray = signs from quoted-printable < 1586796988 996079 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can affect even input that's entirely alphanumeric < 1586796999 990050 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :would it count when web thingies replace anything with an @ sign in it with some javascript email address protection thing? when twitter or twitch chat replaces anything with a dot in it with a http hyperlink? < 1586797003 983208 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ASCII/EBCDIC misinterpretation, I guess, although that isn't common nowadays < 1586797034 534698 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: the former of those is done by Cloudflare under some circumstances, isn't it? < 1586797038 115464 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes it very common < 1586797043 959230 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the latter is also frequently seen < 1586797056 409265 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've first seen it on the FSF's mailing list archive web interface < 1586797068 805205 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(another related issue: ASCII sequences that look like emoticons being replaced with Unicode or even -tag-based smileys) < 1586797087 675912 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: oh right, mailing list archives do that too < 1586797088 918996 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah, Mibbit < 1586797107 114992 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as some phpbb, and in fact twitch chat too now that I think of it < 1586797131 646919 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :changing the :D to a smiley in Data::Dumper, turning :) and :-) to the same thing < 1586797212 413156 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASCII-as-UTF-16 misinterpretation has to be pretty rare < 1586797217 627323 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also some wordpress-based web comment forms that turn ascii double quotes to fancy quotes < 1586797230 883718 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although didn't Notepad do that once? < 1586797250 457039 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_hid_the_facts < 1586797261 664265 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that usually happens backwards, reading an utf-16 file as if it was some ascii-compatible encoding and adding nul bytes between < 1586797324 132380 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes but in that case it's normally really obvious what happened < 1586797347 328560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you see a file that looks like ASCII but there's a NUL byte every other byte, you can typically figure out what went wrong even if you've never heard of UTF-16 < 1586797359 993764 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and some formats, like VT-100, ignore NUL, so the file will even appear to work) < 1586797360 313771 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I didn't know about that one < 1586797369 161673 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming it has no non-ASCII characters) < 1586797398 515941 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually yes. not if I just try to run a grep command, get no matches, and forget that the file is utf-16 encoded < 1586797417 252019 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that happened to me a few times recently < 1586797482 840710 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-171-136.cdrr.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1586797564 90483 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode U+0D0A < 1586797567 90927 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ഊ < 1586797579 287214 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that seems wrong < 1586797581 677414 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode 0D0A < 1586797582 665318 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ഊ < 1586797600 374870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode ഊ < 1586797601 451231 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+0D0A MALAYALAM LETTER UU] < 1586797609 173509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps not < 1586797618 526317 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reading blog posts about the Notepad misdetection < 1586797639 936235 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one of them mentions that the CRLF character is explicitly illegal in Unicode, presumably to make detection easier < 1586797642 433573 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's just lying though? < 1586797646 251344 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode 0A0D < 1586797647 95440 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​਍ < 1586797656 675893 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, there's also some encoding-related garbage that you can get from perl's encoding io layer, which is somehow messed up in more than one way < 1586797662 615380 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, perhaps it only detects it that way round < 1586797675 157900 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it'd be weird to have such a detection for one endianness but not the other < 1586797702 674566 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess this is one argument to prefer UTF16-LE over UTF16-BE < 1586797710 328029 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, on windows with a native win32 perl, when I try to write a file with layer :encoding(utf-16-le):crlf , I get garbage. no, it doesn't just output the crlf wrong, it outputs everything wrong after some point in the file. > 1586797722 590412 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Hakerh40014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70991&oldid=70882 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+134) 10/* Languages */ < 1586797727 248198 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :many years ago I saw the encoding layer cause to output some lines twice. < 1586797735 998112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: how does that compare to :crlf:encoding(utf-16-le)? < 1586797753 826186 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd expect at least one of those to replace all the 0x0D bytes in the Unicode encoding with 0x0D/0x0A pairs, which would throw off the byte pairing < 1586797765 214122 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't recall the details, I think it's just :encoding(utf-16-le) that's buggy, because :crlf is the default < 1586797783 332615 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a workaround is to use :raw:encoding(utf-16-le) and then put crlf at the end of my lines manually < 1586797823 500648 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it isn't just messed up in any of those trivial ways, and the output that I tried to write is mostly ascii < 1586797840 94585 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't really try to isolate the bug, I just gave up < 1586797843 712518 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and worked it around < 1586797854 731661 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also trying to move away for perl, not only for this reason < 1586797865 639732 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, the blog post later discuses the MALAYALAM LETTER UU issue < 1586797880 254752 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: what are you planning to move onto? < 1586797905 383638 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: python3. I already have a csv reader and writer in python, and a lot of more specific scripts related to work. < 1586797933 597281 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually I should make a patched python3 that adds extra syntax so I can write python in a single line, useful for command-line or IRC < 1586797956 879364 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be done in a sane backwards compatible way, I already have a candidate for the syntax < 1586797967 140373 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I'm considering looking for alternatives to Perl, however I dislike Python and don't consider it a reasonable alternative for me < 1586797970 310944 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally should get that thing into vanilla python, because I'm not the only one who's missing that feature < 1586797982 821841 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not getting my hope up < 1586798013 551860 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, it's a pure syntax extension, so the modified python would be compatible with all existing python code, which is the whole point < 1586798023 359384 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: any specific reason why you dislike python < 1586798040 721648 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :one advantage of python is that the standard library is more suited to native windows < 1586798070 573271 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not perfectly suited, it's still written by unix programmers, but you don't have to install CPAN modules to open files with non-ascii filenames or any of that nonsense < 1586798090 559765 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I think the largest design flaw is to have a language where values carry types, with strong restrictions on how types can be combined + context-sensitive overloading, /but/ no static typing < 1586798120 908451 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although Perl started to move in that direction over time with operator overloading, at least most packages keep the normal meanings of the operators < 1586798138 506455 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ and * in Python can do two unrelated things based on where the arguments come from < 1586798142 830983 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if you want static typing, there's always rust and C++, and you can mix them with python just as you can with perl < 1586798150 365424 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! python print("2" + 3) < 1586798151 251400 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/!: line 4: /hackenv/ibin/python: No such file or directory > 1586798156 374515 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Asm2bf14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70992&oldid=70984 5* 03Palaiologos 5* (+275) 10 < 1586798171 261780 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo 'print("2" + 3)' > /tmp/t.py; python3 t.py < 1586798172 330971 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :python3: can't open file 't.py': [Errno 2] No such file or directory < 1586798176 967263 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo 'print("2" + 3)' > /tmp/t.py; python3 /tmp/tt.py < 1586798177 870184 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :python3: can't open file '/tmp/tt.py': [Errno 2] No such file or directory < 1586798179 157536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo 'print("2" + 3)' > /tmp/t.py; python3 /tmp/t.py < 1586798180 104640 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/tmp/t.py", line 1, in \ print("2" + 3) \ TypeError: can only concatenate str (not "int") to str < 1586798185 440692 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo 'print("2" * 3)' > /tmp/t.py; python3 /tmp/t.py < 1586798186 436005 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :222 < 1586798191 105360 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo 'print(2 * 3)' > /tmp/t.py; python3 /tmp/t.py < 1586798192 96898 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 < 1586798213 520673 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's this big distinction between "2" and 2 in how they behave, and code will only be correct for one or the other < 1586798231 462704 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't find that too much of a problem, but ok, that's a good specific answer < 1586798234 155421 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's no sensible way to have this checked automatically < 1586798249 199102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl doesn't have this problem because "2" and 2 act very similarly in any numeric context < 1586798250 456806 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand why you'd want different names for the concat and repeat operators < 1586798256 321937 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, indeed, in any string context < 1586798278 263481 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can distinguish them if you really want to, but normally you don't want to < 1586798298 803104 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also this has lead to bugs in practice < 1586798307 252592 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Python program I most often use is the Jelly interpreter < 1586798310 370222 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but in python, "2" and 2 never act similarly, so this generally doesn't cause confusion < 1586798318 426348 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like in C < 1586798344 330015 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :about the only time when they act similarly is if you pass them to the int or float constructor < 1586798348 232340 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it leads to programs like the following quine: https://tio.run/##y0rNyan8//9R4z4gerhjCRD9/w8A < 1586798354 435165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't even valid Jelly but the interpreter doesn't notice < 1586798381 83966 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: the confusion is the lack of a type error when passing a value of the wrong type < 1586798407 173642 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :other things I dislike are the way it does variable declarations, and the whitespace-sensitivity < 1586798456 997142 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the package manager, but cpan the package managing software isn't all that great either (I'm fine with CPAN the repository, though, and with cpanm) < 1586798486 978769 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right, but it doesn't occur often. the + operator for add vs concatenation, the * operator for multiplication vs repeat, the str function semi-pretty-printing things, int and float converting numbers or parsing strings, plus the [] operator for arrays vs dictionaries, those are about the only cases when this happens < 1586798498 602641 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the time when I pass the wrong type of value, I get an error < 1586798518 823192 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ⁾⁾ḤḤ quine exploits the second case < 1586798532 154364 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for variable declarations and whitespace sensitivity, those complaints I do understand < 1586798536 937958 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :⁾ creates a 2-character string, and a string in Jelly is an array of characters < 1586798537 575454 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to fix the whitespace sensitivity < 1586798551 85370 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably don't want to fix variable declarations, though there could be an extension fixing that < 1586798553 261409 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it creates the string ⁾Ḥ < 1586798560 882827 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then Ḥ doubles a number, or all numbers in an array < 1586798561 873858 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, Julia's rules for variable declarations are way worse than python's IMO < 1586798567 189900 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can guess what happened next :-D < 1586798590 472172 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, gtg < 1586798592 895483 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1586798705 81412 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :more likely in that crazy esolang idea that I'll probably never develop, the configurable one where you can choose between APL order and C order and even more for function calls, I'd have 2*2 options for how variable declarations and scoping work, as in 2 for explicit my and implicit nonlocal vs explicit nonlocal and implicit my, and if/while/for creating a scope vs if/while/for not creating a scope < 1586798774 154044 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and allow to toggle those lexically within a scope < 1586799456 251206 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586799859 846706 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586800276 7819 :Guest48241!~Phantom@82.27.195.88 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586800785 562338 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: hmm, what's the issue with that step from line 108 to 109? It splits X^V' into W^V' and B^V', expands W^V'[v := X^V] as before and B^V' using the undyction hypothesis? < 1586800820 770413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586800822 982969 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah, "undyction" is beautiful. < 1586800893 377726 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586801122 761661 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Excess Flood < 1586801149 338419 :Guest48241!~Phantom@82.27.195.88 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586801209 260544 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586801543 16780 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:50f3:115d:996a:2dbb PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: induction on size of term in B^V' ? < 1586801642 863022 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: I'm treating B^V = H[W^V X^V] = H[W^V (W^V u B^V)] as the inductive definition of B^V. < 1586801654 963318 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: But yes, induction on the size will work as well. < 1586801683 262596 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: it's proper because while H may be empty, we take at least one W^V off. < 1586801687 564055 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:50f3:115d:996a:2dbb PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, i'll add an intermediate line = H[W^V'[v := X^V] (W^V'[v := X^V] ∪ B^V'[v := X^V]) ] to make the steps clearer < 1586801750 766835 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny that we both added an nf[_]size command. < 1586801862 82951 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:50f3:115d:996a:2dbb PRIVMSG #esoteric :i only did so after you mentioned it (but before checking the repo) < 1586805006 31059 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so essentially if I wanted to write a JIT or AOT compiler based on my current interpreter in JAva < 1586805020 798073 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I target java bytecode, C, x86 assembly, llvm... ? < 1586805050 340837 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@82.27.195.88 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586805059 830650 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not really sure because I don't want to kill portability Java offers and overload my program with unnecessary external libraries or programs < 1586805069 576932 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homestuck music update! < 1586805073 888162 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@82.27.195.88 NICK :Guest51731 < 1586805090 888776 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, there are advantages and disadvantages in each case. < 1586805159 331570 :Guest48241!~Phantom@82.27.195.88 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1586805181 972913 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I think < 1586805188 136865 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can't make a decision really < 1586805196 53321 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I may go with Java bytecode < 1586805199 35221 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :where are you intending to run this. < 1586805210 955714 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is this like a brainfuck interpreter? < 1586805211 499080 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then I'll have to clog my program with BCEL < 1586805234 924015 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode, said that already, I want it as portable as possible; and this is a brainfuck interpreter now, but I can eaisly transform it into a compiler < 1586805315 88511 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :C code may be more portable, or a simple code using an emulation < 1586805332 190057 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you haven't said it in my logs, so I don't think asking is out of the question. < 1586805346 151244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: if you're writing in Java, then Java bytecode may be a good target format, as the Java runtime will JIT that once you generate it < 1586805347 717987 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want portability, yeah, you can hardly beat Java. < 1586805355 237598 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you basically have a platform-independent JIT < 1586805372 169711 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want _actual_ portability, compile it to C. every platform has a C compiler at some point. < 1586805378 724124 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then < 1586805383 867284 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at work I use a library called ASM (confusingly) to generate Java bytecode at runtime < 1586805391 968580 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is a good target language if you want AOT rather than JIT < 1586805393 315344 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll go with BCEL instaed < 1586805402 666436 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about performance < 1586805405 951346 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and optimization < 1586805428 433060 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C compiler optimizers are pretty good nowadays, although I can normally beat them programming by hand < 1586805443 637813 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C may be orders of magnitude more performant than Java < 1586805448 103651 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, the workings of modern computers are confusing, and optimizing for speed is really counterintuitive sometimes < 1586805459 204729 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on your knowledge on the platforms < 1586805466 674862 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cache lines, instruction alignment < 1586805474 215319 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it all becomes logical at certain point < 1586805483 715377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :out-of-order execution has a much larger impact than instruction alignment < 1586805491 339156 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah this too < 1586805500 237188 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it interacts with caching in weird ways < 1586805574 555027 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I'm going with java < 1586805581 460039 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a while ago, to test out my optimization skills, I decided to aim for the following challenge: given a simple (inlinable) function that generates a continuous stream of bytes in a way that doesn't take up much of the CPU's time < 1586805587 479530 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :write the resulting bytes to memory as quickly as possible < 1586805593 473853 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.177.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha, C, Java. I plan to compile something into Python (as for programs written in it it’s pretty logical; there’s a module to work with its own AST and a function for compiling it) < 1586805594 475394 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thikn computers should be designed less confusing < 1586805621 245749 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it took a lot of attempts and experimentation to find an optimal (or as optimal as I could get it) solution, but I beat the C compilers fairly quickly < 1586805622 146073 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :python doesn't seem like a good target < 1586805637 292160 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is hard to optimize by the compiler < 1586805642 11732 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't even reassociate math < 1586805647 927158 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also allow it to support multiple targets < 1586805649 195731 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :without changing behaviour of some snippets < 1586805663 287806 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, not today, that's too much effort :P, I'll maybe support C later on < 1586805670 679559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for people who are wondering, take a couple of 128-bit registers, store intermediate results there, and then write them using nontemporal writes; this is fastest even though GPR→vector register copies are documented as slow) < 1586805692 899970 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oddly, this was fastest even though the CPU had 256-bit registers available) < 1586805714 890405 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's always cheering to see a fellow assembly programmer < 1586805715 607127 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.177.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : python doesn't seem like a good target => for production code, I more or less agree, but for quick proof-of-concept things why not < 1586805731 18513 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ yeah, for a proof of concept python is sufficient < 1586805753 51611 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.177.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :assembly programmers are magicians < 1586805776 511119 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Malbolge programmers are true magicians < 1586805788 957833 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.177.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :as any true magician, an assembly master is a rare sight < 1586805789 163937 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't write in asm much, but I think it's an important language to know, especially when trying to work out how to write the quickest possible code < 1586805806 63690 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seducers, thiefs, simonists < 1586805809 20137 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I consider asm to be a fairly easy language to write (if you aren't aiming for performance), incidentally, it's just really time-consuming < 1586805824 931608 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's true < 1586805841 374009 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.177.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : Malbolge programmers are true magicians => hmhm maybe they are abstract theoretical magicians then, and assembly ones, practicing ones ;D < 1586805841 857955 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing my Assembly implementation for the Seed generator has been a quite long process > 1586805848 392253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Indent14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70993&oldid=70947 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+12) 10/* Examples */ < 1586805855 876251 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, it took around 2 days to get it up and running < 1586805860 347441 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you check the code btw? < 1586805866 205001 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm always up for some optimization tips < 1586805905 375470 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked at it but didn't really read it < 1586805923 3371 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Quit: quit > 1586806048 669357 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70994&oldid=70146 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+16) 10Removed redirect to [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)]] < 1586806164 725987 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.177.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :though in view of wanting to call myself a bit of a magician too I need to postulate Haskell-or-other programmers should be magicians too, just of a school almost incompatible in its workings to an assembly ones. It’s even plain to see: an assembly magician assembles (with others) and a haskell one, well, “has call”, which might mean that they can talk to one another at a distance, which is quite a good trait these times. I’ll s < 1586806164 859927 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.177.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :how myself out < 1586806222 477398 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are different assembly language for different computers and VMs, so you might know one way better than other one. < 1586806225 649430 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1586806363 443648 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have used the assembly language of 6502, MIX, MMIX, Glulx, Z-machine, and maybe a few others < 1586806408 890345 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to write a text adventure game, you may want to learn Glulx or Z-machine programming; there are some tricks I have figured out < 1586806650 404633 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-171-136.cdrr.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586806701 572609 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infocom put in some features in Z-machine that they then didn't use. And then, there are many other tricks they didn't consider, such as the SET->BCOM optimization, etc. So, if you write programs for Z-machine, then you can learn this, please. > 1586806974 973646 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tttt14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70995&oldid=67806 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-19) 10/* the symbols */ Fixing your ordered list so it is legible > 1586807744 319297 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Elevated Parser14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=70996 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+8045) 10+[[Elevated Parser]] > 1586807747 255658 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70997&oldid=70961 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+22) 10+[[Elevated Parser]] > 1586807750 245414 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Hakerh40014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70998&oldid=70991 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+38) 10+[[Elevated Parser]] < 1586807918 657571 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Which instruction set and what CPU were you writing the program you mentioned is fastest? > 1586807932 456244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Elevated Parser14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70999&oldid=70996 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+11) 10/* Processing abstract syntax tree */ < 1586808070 715274 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1586808095 755066 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Elevated Parser14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71000&oldid=70999 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (-1) 10 > 1586808209 143964 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Elevated Parser14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71001&oldid=71000 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+2) 10 > 1586808259 863531 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Elevated Parser14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71002&oldid=71001 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+0) 10 < 1586808526 339654 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. "Are you sure you want to cancel this operation? [Cancel] [Ok]" < 1586808536 478665 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gozqrwsxdmwuenlw QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1586808545 378136 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I clicked "Cancel" rather than "Ok" and then wondered why nothing happened. < 1586808674 613455 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That isn't very good, they should write (Y/N) instead < 1586808769 630699 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cancelled the cancelling < 1586808804 364039 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree with zzo38, that isn't very good < 1586808882 466941 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This is github btw, when cancelling editing of a comment.) < 1586808912 640308 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But are those labels provided by the JS code or by the browser, hmm.) < 1586808934 667590 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww @xkcd < 1586809016 216832 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.177.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :can a cell cancel < 1586809099 790880 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it is in the browser and is provided by a JavaScript prompt() function, then that isn't a problem, since they just have to make the expectation (although maybe they should put labels true/false). If it is a confirmation the browser puts by itself, perhaps due to an altered but not yet submitted form (this would be a better way, subject to user configuration), then it should use better writing. < 1586809315 818770 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.177.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, this xkcd is poetic. A glider ensouled takes into the sky and expands the boundaries of life < 1586809405 956032 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.177.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :though maybe it doesn’t quite reach the surreal, and that’s a pity < 1586809794 303582 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty good < 1586809852 627331 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: what do you want, the glider breaking out of the frame and psychedelic rainbow colors when the glider hits the edge of the browser window? < 1586809894 843612 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the former would be kind of cute, but hard to do with just an animated gif :) ) < 1586809942 435959 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.177.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: hmmm the idea is nice but I don’t know if it would be linked to surreal numbers by many < 1586810049 968003 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :i kind of thought it would break out of the frame < 1586810134 367223 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wrong, this isn't actually happening on github (which phrases the message differently); it's just its sibling, gist. < 1586810299 939544 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. Can't reproduce? Maybe my brain read something that wasn't there. In that case... let me get back on the project of detonating the Sun to erase all evidence of this ever happening. < 1586810485 415824 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PART :#esoteric < 1586810575 389388 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.177.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? int-e < 1586810576 699968 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e är inte svensk. Hen kommer att spränga solen. Hen står för sig själv. Hen gillar inte färger, men han gillar dissonans. Er hat ein Hipster-Spiel gekauft. < 1586810580 930311 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586810600 120213 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if I should continue reading the HTML spec, it just continues to get weirder and weirder < 1586810602 559059 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.177.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm yes I still haven’t learned this language < 1586810628 161105 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, it uses the three-word phrase "will declaratively refresh" as though it were a single-word noun < 1586810646 930150 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. "If document's will declaratively refresh is true, then return." < 1586810661 576033 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: Yes, it is mentioned in there. < 1586810695 349030 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, given that most of the document is written in pseudocode, I'm not even sure I can argue that this is wrong because variable names can be anything without changing the meaning < 1586810717 16042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you'd have thought that reasonable programs would try to use something less unwieldy < 1586810814 990475 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.177.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: (could you maybe try the Moon first? If it’ll be sufficient then at least someone will still have the Sun) < 1586810910 694517 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: No, the whole point of this endeavour is to be thorough. < 1586810931 931875 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: Unfortunately, I don't even know where to begin. ;) < 1586810941 773245 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.177.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: but the Sun may be not enough < 1586810960 176849 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: True, true. < 1586810974 600785 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: However you should make up your mind about what you want. < 1586811003 458477 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hrm. "Are you sure you want to cancel this operation? [Cancel] [Ok]" ← I'm having problems working out a good interface for that, especially because by the normal interface guidelines, /both/ buttons should say "Cancel" < 1586811014 153585 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is assuming that there's no easy way to undo the cancel once it's started) < 1586811024 240662 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(otherwise, you just cancel and have an "undo cancel" button, which is 100% clear) < 1586811031 847636 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.177.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so I need to distract you with blowing up Sagittarius A* after all < 1586811042 939472 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.177.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: ^ < 1586811077 744246 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might be a fun question for the user interface design stack exchange < 1586811091 957868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think nowadays my main usage of stack exchange is asking ridiculously hard questions that I don't expect there to be a good answer to < 1586811097 311063 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think (Y/N) is best, but that is not applicable to HTML. I suggested displaying true/false if the confirm() function is used. < 1586811105 290701 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since, those are the return values of the confirm() function. < 1586811113 442282 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nothing is lost if I'm right, but something amazing often happens when I'm wrong, so the overall expectation is very positive) < 1586811129 902108 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm really miffed about not being able to reproduce it, and not knowing whether it's a corner case or something I just imagined. < 1586811168 28422 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough to go diving into github's code, but it's kind of a close call. < 1586811271 908764 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.177.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I tried to cancel editing my own comment now at my gist, and it asks “Are you sure you want to discard your unsaved changes?” with OK and Cancel (translated) buttons < 1586811293 571528 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.177.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it what you think you have seen? < 1586811388 442532 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.177.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, btw the browser is Firefox and the dialog is seemingly by Firefox, so it should be a standard JS function being used, yep < 1586811439 434000 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: That is what I'm seeing when I try to reproduce the problem :P < 1586811458 725167 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.177.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah sorry < 1586811464 488300 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: But it's not what I thought I saw. < 1586811481 534011 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: Don't worry. It's nice to get *something* right. :P < 1586811495 617454 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.177.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :though at least what you see instead is more reproducible that it was known prior < 1586811557 965704 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.177.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: *something* right => then not the Sun, Sagittarius A* > 1586811788 255056 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71003&oldid=70994 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+859) 10 < 1586811869 719917 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: Nah, I also try to keep my goals realistic. If I'm to shoot at stars, I'll start with the Sun. < 1586811905 959694 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.177.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, I have some time to dissuade you < 1586811944 183870 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps so, but all you're accomplishing is to strengthen my resolve. < 1586812144 494046 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.177.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: hmm it came to my mind if I blow up Sgt A* first (and in the right way), you woudn’t get a chance with the Sun… hm < 1586812208 73889 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.177.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :though this is a goal no less distant to me too, so I’m just musing alound < 1586812258 464720 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.177.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :though no, I should pick Betelgeuse < 1586812278 852537 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any natural languages where the natural translations of "yes" and "no" start with the same letter? < 1586813412 135166 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :A table on the Internet says that in the Bambara language (which is "mostly written in the Latin script") those are Awɔ and Ayi respectively. But another dictionary page writes the yes as "ɔwɔ", and there is an uppercase Ɔ as well, so maybe not. It does seem to be a different vowel, at least. < 1586813658 676853 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Hawaiian ʻae (yes) and ʻaʻole (no) might count. (I don't know any of these languages, just guessing.) < 1586814016 637551 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586814175 322830 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1586814183 290639 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1586814585 718926 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The user interface guidelines are perhaps no good then. What is done in vi is better, you must type :q! if you want to discard your changes, if you type :q and there are unsaved changes, it tell you that you must type :q! instead if you want to discard the unsaved changes or :w to save changes, or :wq to save and quit. < 1586815396 936285 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-146-112-4.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586816715 607242 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that's a good solution for a command-line interface < 1586816769 758605 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the best dialog button names I can think of for this are "Confirm cancel" and "Continue, don't cancel" < 1586816862 793357 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps "discard" and "continue editing" (and possibly also "save changes") < 1586817018 921955 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: if it's just for an editor, then yes, that's the standard < 1586817136 185892 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. For other things, there is other stuff. Such as, if an operating is processing and then will be completed by itself in time, to put: Copying interrupted. Push space to resume copying or ^C to cancel copying. < 1586818088 668638 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the overspill for reconnaissance should be you can look at the top card of any player's regular pile. < 1586818225 857005 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You cannot look at the card underneath the top card even if you have more than one reconnaissance, but if you have two reconnaissances then you can look at both your own and your opponent's card.) < 1586818849 309168 :Guest51731!~Phantom@82.27.195.88 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1586819131 301809 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1586820039 94009 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-146-112-4.natnow.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1586822328 783571 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.177.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds > 1586823700 79449 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Systemf14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71004&oldid=52502 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+13) 10fixed title < 1586826063 948908 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Read error: No route to host < 1586826177 576673 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1586826538 245695 :LKoen_!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1586826679 257999 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1586827515 173755 :LKoen_!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” > 1586827518 338962 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tbf14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71005&oldid=40952 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+5) 10fixed title > 1586827668 275407 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tbf14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71006&oldid=71005 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+25) 10/* External resources */ fixed link < 1586828903 994732 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586828928 785864 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric > 1586829144 214605 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ThETA14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71007&oldid=16258 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+31) 10fixed title > 1586829225 58077 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ThaM14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71008&oldid=30198 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+36) 10/* External resources */ fixed link > 1586829259 194103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ThaM14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71009&oldid=71008 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+36) 10/* External resources */ fixed other link < 1586829822 765169 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like Sean Uy's puzzles? > 1586830023 811480 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Thotpatrol14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71010&oldid=51367 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+15) 10fixed title > 1586832421 661790 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TinyBF14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71011&oldid=50225 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title < 1586833620 113154 :Maitor!~goban@gateway/tor-sasl/maitor PART :#esoteric < 1586835017 575792 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is someone on today? < 1586835065 905367 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is, actually < 1586835172 544501 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a option in Firefox and/or other web browsers that cookies can be disabled except for redirects? < 1586835187 527918 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not seen such an option, no < 1586835246 458682 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you think of my idea of "fission" ability for Magic: the Gathering cards? < 1586835339 92584 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must say, I missed your discussion of it, so I can't say < 1586835373 719422 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should maybe get back into Magic after this is all over... < 1586835409 478128 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Starts at UNIX timestamp 1586738893. < 1586835453 456304 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if you are alone, you can still compose and/or solve puzzles of Magic: the Gathering, which is something I like to do. < 1586835495 36680 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :My wife knows how to play, but I'm more into it than her, and she's been preoccupied with Final Fantasy 7 lately < 1586835524 278193 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh could do internet stuff < 1586835527 876852 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like puzzles of Magic: the Gathering? < 1586835538 860661 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never really gotten into 'em < 1586835556 66463 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :For me a decent chunk of the appeal of Magic _is_ the fact you're playing with other people < 1586835587 436498 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, yes, the game itself is appealing, but I also enjoy the social nature of it < 1586835601 868466 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some free open source implementations of Magic: the Gathering; one I looked at (but never used; I only looked at the code) is Xmage, which does not implement text changing effects. < 1586835614 60541 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I've used some in the past < 1586835685 454234 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought to implement a RDF-based format which can implement many features of Magic: the Gathering much better. So, that is my suggestion to someone who is implementing Magic: the Gathering. < 1586835757 67021 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if she should rope her girlfriend into learning Magic :P < 1586835776 753971 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not, unless she waaaants to... < 1586835825 422766 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could ask if you want to, I suppose. < 1586835850 789219 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods < 1586835893 188054 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chess (and many chess variants, too) can also easily be played by computer without specialized software, using IRC or a direct connection or whatever (or even by telephone, too, actually) < 1586835924 55491 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Card games is more difficult to do by computer without the specialized software, but chess game can be done easily. < 1586835931 212484 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I mean, chess is trivial to do remotely. < 1586835943 467323 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correspondence chess has been a Thing for ages, after all < 1586836016 580856 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it must have been. I don't know how old it is exactly, but I think it was even done by telegrams in the past < 1586836044 430606 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I've basically given up on Magic as a game to play, as opposed to a game to theorize about < 1586836061 83415 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've disliked the direction it's been going in for quite a while < 1586836073 743818 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've only played Magic in kitchen table formats, thankfully < 1586836078 445969 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dod you read my "fission" ideas about making a card that becomes two objects in the battlefield but only one outside (like the reverse of meld)? < 1586836130 138593 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't like many of the features of the rules either (or some of the card designs), but in some cases I have thought of how to make a variant rules, trying to make it close to the official rules though < 1586836298 382868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic problem is that Wizards are trying to make too many products for too many audiences, and are being pulled in too many directions and the quality has gone way down < 1586836330 643250 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although some of these rules aren't so new, and some of them they have fixed (for example, I didn't like the planeswalker redirection rule and I am glad they removed it), but one rule I dislike is names for tokens, which seems mathematically klugy to me in the way the spelling works. Subtypes should be a separate namespace from names and shouldn't interact in this way (with the possible exception of conventional basic lands). < 1586836333 690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, something similar to this is why I gave up on Pokémon (the video game, not the card game, and not the video game /of/ the card game) < 1586836372 20083 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, would "a land token named Island" tap for blue? my guess is no (but "an Island land token" would) < 1586836381 999500 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs < 1586836387 504742 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I agree with you about the land tokens. < 1586836398 139506 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbh my time is nevertheless likely to be occupied < 1586836419 615287 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since, "a land token named Island" still doesn't have the subtype Island, so it doesn't implicitly have "{T}: Add {U}". < 1586836437 532045 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the M:tG Busy Beaver people are apparently trying to figure out a way to create an Ackermann-like function only it has the busy beaver function rather than an increment < 1586836454 802926 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: right, I was just wondering whether there was a special rule for things named Island, or whether that only applies to cards < 1586836471 859098 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, a card named Island implicitly has the Island subtype < 1586836478 898294 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's printed that way < 1586836484 832185 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to how Oracle text works < 1586836502 362902 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess that doesn't affect tokens that were created with the same name as a card due to Artificial Evolution < 1586836509 454222 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even naturally < 1586836530 222991 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IIRC think "Splinter" is both a card name, and a name of a token that can be created without text-changing effects) < 1586836541 804870 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: O, yes, that is a rule of Oracle text for conventional basic lands. And, yes, it won't affect tokens of course, or even cards, just, I should think it should mean, as far as the game is concerned, a card printed with a given name has the text specified by the Oracle text as its initial text. < 1586836587 621914 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The exception I mentioned for conventional basic lands doesn't mean that names are subtypes, only that the name of "an Island land token" would compare as equal to the name of a card named "Island", but this isn't the case for creature tokens that are not explicitly given names (if they are explicitly given names, then they do compare equal to card names that are spelled the same way in English). < 1586836623 154044 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think removing special cases would be helpful < 1586836627 123781 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`card-by-name Spreading Seas < 1586836628 638623 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spreading Seas \ 1U \ Enchantment -- Aura \ Enchant land \ When Spreading Seas enters the battlefield, draw a card. \ Enchanted land is an Island. \ ZEN-C < 1586836668 202426 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That changes the subtype, not the name. It wouldn't change under the rules I mention. < 1586836669 330422 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my preferred templating for the second ability would be «Enchanted land is an Island with "{T}: Add {U}" and no other subtypes or abilities.» < 1586836697 568001 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it is, there's a special rule that changing the subtype of a land removes all its abilities, and there's a special rule on the Island subtype to add the ability to tap for {U} < 1586836747 742948 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, those are special cases. The special rule about changing the subtype of a land removing all abilities I agree is a bit klugy, but the rule that those subtypes implicitly cause it to have those abilities is I think probably important to keep how it is. < 1586836766 520174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the implicit rule for the Wall subtype got removed < 1586836794 287493 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and that is good that they removed the rule for Wall. < 1586836800 936020 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that got swapped over to being an explicit ability, and thank goodness < 1586836807 842071 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like that sort of hidden magic in game design < 1586836863 30727 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, I mentioned "possible exception"; maybe my new rule should not have the exception for names of conventional basic lands. I am not sure. Either way, it won't affect non-conventional basic lands.) < 1586836879 382785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do like design guidelines like "black creatures are hard to destroy" but those don't have to be part of the game rules < 1586836895 353047 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods < 1586836923 238494 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the sort of thing you don't have to explain to people to learn the game, but will _inevitably_ pick up if they play enough < 1586836942 47302 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one thing that the Pokémon video games do well, the power of something can be in how other things interact with it rather than in its own rules < 1586837107 912184 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it can lead to things getting a little broken sometimes when the delicate chain of interactions breaks down < 1586837118 139053 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. see https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ask-a-simple-question-get-a-simple-answer-mark-ii-roa-edition.3468567/page-53#post-8317201 and the answer two posts below (I'm callforjudgement) < 1586837121 166578 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :callforjudgement < 1586837123 944674 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1586837136 821807 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah... < 1586837228 164720 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the funny thing is that Arena Trap started off as a safety valve against one strategy, and ended up, many years later, making another strategy too strong by countering its counters < 1586837253 322026 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some unofficial implementations of Pokemon battles too, with different generations. < 1586837288 838151 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does the Arena Trap ability do? < 1586837331 651817 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it prevents grounded opponents from switching out as long as the Arena Trap user is in battle, without the help of an item that ungrounds them (Air Balloon) or that allows them to ignore trapping effects (Shed Shell) < 1586837342 242476 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1586837381 111980 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but all its users are very defensively vulnerable in order to compensate for the fairly good ability < 1586837404 199898 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so normally there's not much point in trapping the opponent with it because they just KO you and regain the ability to switch out that way < 1586837560 289210 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1586837569 506118 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I think the Run Away ability might also allow you to ignore trapping effects, not sure though, they keep changing what abilities do and most of the changes have been really good ideas, but it makes the rules hard to remember sometimes < 1586837610 55526 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, just you should agree which generation you are playing, and then, you should use the rules for that generation, I should think. (With any alterations for the specific match, if any, I suppose.) < 1586837645 210528 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I agree; it's just that there are eight generations now and trying to remember the rules for each of them is complicated < 1586837682 717102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a really major rules change in generation 8 (the turn order isn't locked in at the start of the turn, rather it's recalculated for every Pokémon that hasn't moved yet after each move) which I dislike < 1586837695 963568 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and which keeps catching me out in generation 8 battles < 1586837744 560995 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I suppose it is difficult like you said. < 1586837794 200785 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought turn order was based on speed? If that is how it work then I should think the result is same either way? Does it do another way? < 1586837830 468064 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, based on speed < 1586837847 987999 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but say there are four Pokémon on the battlefield and their speeds are in the order A, B, C, D < 1586837864 138079 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if Pokémon A uses a move to make Pokémon D faster, it could go next if its speed is increased to now be faster than B's < 1586837929 53618 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas under the old rules, Pokémon B and C would move next, then Pokémon D, but the turn afterwards Pokémon D would move sooner < 1586837949 73736 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, OK. Now I know what you mean. < 1586838083 152565 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the drawback of speed-boosting moves used to be that they did nothing on the turn you used them, and they were balanced accordingly, but now (except in battles with only two Pokémon) there is very little counterplay to them, other than by building a team which would naturally go at the end of the turn order anyway (making the moves redundant) < 1586838095 340122 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's made battles much more matchup-dependent than they used to be < 1586838132 79666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and means that many battles end up being decided by guesses made in the Team Preview phase < 1586838213 622658 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1586838324 276009 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(generation 8 also invented Max Airstream, which is probably the most broken move ever in Pokémon, and is speed-boosting, although oddly it's somehow even more broken in singles, where the changes to turn order calculation have no effect) < 1586838386 316061 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, we could do with a Pokémon video games version of `card-by-name, I guess, but probably these conversations don't come up often enough for it to be worth the programming effort > 1586838469 956442 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71012&oldid=70793 5* 03Hdjensofjfnen 5* (+32) 10 < 1586838486 440393 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have thought of a system for custom Pokemon battles, involving various rule customization and time controls customization (the time controls is more general and can be applied to many different games). < 1586838525 102675 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are simulators that understand a lot of custom rules already < 1586838530 278935 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although your rules might not be included < 1586838613 634345 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mentioned to someone about text-based pokemon battle game (that you can connect using telnet or SSH), but they mentioned it is good except Spinda. But, once I looked it up, I can see how it is working, so, I think the solution is that if your pokemon is Spinda, then your opponent is allowed to see all values derived from the personality value (or encryption constant in gen VI). < 1586838710 39791 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If you specify rules that data of opponent's pokemons is visible anyways, then of course it is irrelevant.) < 1586838779 360696 :diginet_!~diginet@107.170.146.29 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586838839 390411 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think at some point Spinda's personality value stopped being visible from its graphics, I forget which generation though < 1586838844 814977 :ornxka_!~ornxka@unaffiliated/ornx JOIN :#esoteric < 1586838858 119930 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in practice, I don't think I've seen anyone reverse-calculate Spinda's personality value in a competitive battle anyway < 1586838876 889439 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's normally only done to peek at the state of the random number generator) < 1586838920 87917 :jix_!~jix@static.71.5.69.159.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1586838925 44682 :kmc_!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister JOIN :#esoteric < 1586838940 335411 :int-e_!~noone@int-e.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1586838943 363235 :izabera_!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera JOIN :#esoteric < 1586839053 778928 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget which generation they added chess clocks, although I remember once my brother told me. Of course, in a unofficial program, it could allow the rules to customize time controls independently of the generation. < 1586839103 917096 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: 5, I believe, although it doesn't work quite the same way as regular chess clocks < 1586839119 879660 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are actually /three/ clocks, one of which runs permanently (even when it's neither player's turn) and causes a draw if it runs out < 1586839149 589666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and an additional clock which limits how much time you have for each individual move, so that's a fourth clock < 1586839154 555984 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it runs out your turn is decided at random < 1586839206 95158 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, OK < 1586839219 747395 :ornxka!~ornxka@unaffiliated/ornx QUIT :*.net *.split < 1586839219 786376 :diginet!~diginet@107.170.146.29 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1586839219 824406 :jix!~jix@static.71.5.69.159.clients.your-server.de QUIT :*.net *.split < 1586839219 862999 :gitlogger!~gitlogger@206.ip-51-91-102.eu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1586839219 863059 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1586839219 909729 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1586839219 947709 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera QUIT :*.net *.split < 1586839219 985771 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister QUIT :*.net *.split < 1586839224 335943 :diginet_!~diginet@107.170.146.29 NICK :diginet < 1586839229 328157 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the chess clock is just one of three < 1586839238 138191 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1586839245 317000 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the reason the system is so complex is for online tournaments < 1586839276 14930 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which needed to avoid running out of time for a round even if the players used moves with very long animations every turn (perhaps because they were colluding in an attempt to break the servers) < 1586839440 360935 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could they disable animations? Did they have an option for that? < 1586839500 62407 :kmc_!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister NICK :kmc < 1586839591 397913 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586839639 331980 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the games have had options to disable animations since gen 1, but oddly, in competitive/link battles the animations are forced to be turned on, ignoring the option < 1586839958 451153 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1586840034 374192 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb kmc < 1586840068 926872 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Frankly that always annoyed me < 1586840076 878916 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I wanted animations off, it should just let me < 1586840133 385265 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I should think so too, at least if both players turn off animations, then it should be turned off. < 1586840170 397687 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Animations should also be forced off if any kind of time controls are specified, I think.) < 1586841126 196301 :watermelon3D!~watermelo@058176100159.ctinets.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1586841226 53485 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-171-136.cdrr.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1586841312 882016 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also don't like the rule in Magic: the Gathering that double face cards and meld cards cannot be faced down (rules 711.10 and 712.10); it is easily enough to represent, by placing the checklist card face-down on top or by using opaque card sleeves. < 1586843957 221124 :watermelon3D!~watermelo@058176100159.ctinets.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1586844126 806115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586844777 68712 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586844948 174064 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586845527 296142 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:1c6b:a87d:8b4f:2427 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1586845890 838614 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586846661 816744 :Cale!~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1586847145 764451 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, like I guessed, xkcd's comic today is a tribute to John H. Conway too < 1586848683 506986 :watermelon3D!~watermelo@058176100159.ctinets.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1586849269 243894 :int-e_!~noone@int-e.eu NICK :int-e < 1586849373 885305 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu NICK :int-e_ < 1586849389 918768 :int-e_!~noone@int-e.eu NICK :int-e < 1586849888 63571 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once dreamt that someone saved the details of a magic trick on their computer, but it saved with a .''' extension which meant that the magic trick was bad. < 1586851397 847405 :wib_jonas!b03f0c32@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.12.50 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586851453 41336 :wib_jonas!b03f0c32@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.12.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: re "assemble vs has call" => that is the most groanworthy pun that I've read about this pandemic so far < 1586851495 130428 :wib_jonas!b03f0c32@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.12.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: re "Are you sure you want to cancel this operation? [Cancel] [Ok]" => in the 7-zip GUI, when you interrupt a compression operation, it asks the question the same way, but the answers are Yes, No, Cancel < 1586851612 515926 :wib_jonas!b03f0c32@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.12.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: "detonating the Sun to erase all evidence of this ever happening" => please merge it with a few other stars so that it's large enough to go supernova, then we'll get those sweet heavy elements as construction material for our civilization < 1586851907 853126 :wib_jonas!b03f0c32@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.12.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "are there any natural languages where the natural translations of "yes" and "no" start with the same letter?" => try https://www.omniglot.com/language/phrases/yesnomaybe.htm < 1586851928 979855 :wib_jonas!b03f0c32@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.12.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, fizzie probably looked at the same one < 1586852125 711269 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1586852230 371504 :wib_jonas!b03f0c32@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.12.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: re Magic, then you could play Magic games in a homebrew format where the pool of cards is restricted to cards older than a certain cutoff date < 1586852961 469479 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586853323 519678 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:50f3:115d:996a:2dbb QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586853551 209820 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-elqbgkwbobftpxig QUIT :Quit: killed < 1586853551 291521 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pvxrdejidcwtsmyd QUIT :Quit: killed < 1586853578 600367 :xylochoron[m]!xylochoron@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-mgheajgtuotwvyks QUIT :Quit: killed < 1586853579 749950 :xavo[m]!undersco1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-gyzfddehbbixljam QUIT :Quit: killed < 1586854389 719266 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-xzyaisbqzvkskrdj JOIN :#esoteric < 1586854662 46409 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:40a3:ea61:cb37:f374 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586856516 48993 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586856715 999104 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586857076 806665 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fxmbgdseweobncjt JOIN :#esoteric < 1586857076 887459 :xylochoron[m]!xylochoron@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-vlvkegcgsdxmwhtq JOIN :#esoteric < 1586857076 986483 :xavo[m]!undersco1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-wgwnxhhmtkkndjuy JOIN :#esoteric < 1586857258 244164 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586857340 659058 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1586857341 203143 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1586859181 321169 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-171-136.cdrr.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1586859844 563918 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TinyBF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71013&oldid=71011 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+25) 10/* External resources */ fixed link < 1586859880 32265 :wib_jonas!b03f0c32@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.12.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm re-reading some old forum posts, and ran into a mention of the angels vs devils game https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_problem , which is also due to John H. Conway < 1586860383 899984 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1586860554 802607 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586861287 296958 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586861308 620632 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric > 1586861313 371571 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* 10moved [[02Ttml10]] to [[TTML]]: fix capitalization > 1586861313 461760 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* 10moved [[02Talk:Ttml10]] to [[Talk:TTML]]: fix capitalization > 1586861567 497313 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tuplary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71018&oldid=39935 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title < 1586861689 984993 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how inefficient would a mandelbrot fractal viewer be in Malbolge < 1586863093 800487 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1586863196 412921 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric > 1586863433 877481 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Uncomment14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71019&oldid=32463 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+36) 10/* External resources */ fixed link < 1586863481 444966 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1586863521 324290 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1586863754 939873 :ornxka_!~ornxka@unaffiliated/ornx NICK :ornxka < 1586864926 926665 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://raw.githubusercontent.com/KrzysztofSzewczyk/asmbf/master/rave/src/rave/pass/ComparisonPass.java <- that's how code ends up when you pretend to write in a functional fashion lmao < 1586864973 77037 :wib_jonas!b03f0c32@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.12.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, java generics < 1586864988 107527 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes, lack of builtin tuple data typ < 1586864998 928277 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you automagically save on obfuscators < 1586865006 999433 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because after writing such code, you don't need one < 1586865705 239877 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1586865827 338787 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1586866121 384449 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1586866161 787981 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric > 1586866197 89958 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Version214]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71020&oldid=33857 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+36) 10/* External resources */ fixed link > 1586866546 583691 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Vowels14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71021&oldid=40963 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+20) 10fixed title < 1586867254 133462 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1586867322 317001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Sinjoro 5* 10New user account < 1586867433 44061 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds > 1586867458 30275 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Wait14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71022&oldid=30726 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (-13) 10/* External resources */ > 1586867540 25055 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71023&oldid=70879 5* 03Sinjoro 5* (+141) 10 > 1586867696 935790 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71024&oldid=71023 5* 03Sinjoro 5* (+49) 10 < 1586867795 807287 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.194 JOIN :#esoteric > 1586867806 311840 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71025&oldid=71024 5* 03Sinjoro 5* (+27) 10 < 1586868377 968301 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jqnufvjrhliluxzb JOIN :#esoteric > 1586868407 668673 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PureBrainz14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71026 5* 03Sinjoro 5* (+680) 10First Commit > 1586868465 235060 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PureBrainz14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71027&oldid=71026 5* 03Sinjoro 5* (+1) 10 < 1586868583 699961 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1586868825 703922 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Wiki14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71028&oldid=25347 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+12) 10/* External resources */ fixed link < 1586868882 453537 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586868987 426533 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:40a3:ea61:cb37:f374 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: do you think we can extend the X^V rule to X^V ::= W^V | B^V | ? < 1586869256 117331 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1586869578 683153 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:40a3:ea61:cb37:f374 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, that's no good. never mind < 1586869699 452250 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:40a3:ea61:cb37:f374 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I noticed that \x. x^2 could be added to W, but not sure where exactly to add it > 1586869773 500755 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Worstscript14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71029&oldid=55333 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title > 1586870354 898601 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07XEec14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71030&oldid=44650 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+14) 10fixed title < 1586870432 674489 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:40a3:ea61:cb37:f374 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: perhaps extend W^V rule to W^V ::= V | W^V | \v. B^({v} ∪ V) ? < 1586870584 708976 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric > 1586870617 101596 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07XS14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71031&oldid=67243 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+12) 10/* External resources */ fixed link > 1586870798 802612 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07XTW14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71032&oldid=55597 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+2) 10fixed link < 1586870960 244206 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: That would yield (\1 (\1 1)) in B, which terminates. < 1586871055 540456 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:40a3:ea61:cb37:f374 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it would put that in W < 1586871079 918039 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. hmm. > 1586871083 960345 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PureBrainz14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71033&oldid=71027 5* 03Sinjoro 5* (+2699) 10Created the table of instructions < 1586871115 838750 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:40a3:ea61:cb37:f374 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, the <> could be replaced by any number of nested <> (including 0) < 1586871231 703125 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:40a3:ea61:cb37:f374 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we cauld have W^V ::= V | W^V K^V | \v. B^({v} ∪ V) and add a rule K^V = K W^V | < 1586871272 593794 :wib_jonas!b03f0c32@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.12.50 QUIT :Quit: Connection closed < 1586871335 630632 :kapilavashtu!~kapilavas@185.3.172.237 QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1586871360 818192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ybc14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71034&oldid=51853 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+135) 10fixed code block > 1586871577 704523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Yo14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71035&oldid=36273 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (-86) 10fixed code blocks > 1586871579 945886 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PureBrainz14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71036&oldid=71033 5* 03Sinjoro 5* (+272) 10 > 1586871620 994216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PureBrainz14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71037&oldid=71036 5* 03Sinjoro 5* (+0) 10 < 1586872227 587120 :ocharles!sid30093@musicbrainz/user/ocharles QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586872295 892026 :ocharles!sid30093@musicbrainz/user/ocharles JOIN :#esoteric < 1586872370 315091 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: Okay, do it like this then: It puts \(\1 1) (\2) into W. < 1586872443 701261 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:40a3:ea61:cb37:f374 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't see how you get that in W < 1586872536 156269 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1586872592 409465 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, because I shouldn't have the initial lambda. < 1586872833 740790 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:40a3:ea61:cb37:f374 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then \2 makes no sense < 1586872842 455079 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's K 1 < 1586872856 333364 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I have a free variable now. < 1586872873 656172 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:40a3:ea61:cb37:f374 PRIVMSG #esoteric :W is set of closed terms?! < 1586872899 735378 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah I should just stop thinking aloud. < 1586872972 211941 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:40a3:ea61:cb37:f374 PRIVMSG #esoteric :conceptually, the extra option for W^V looks ok, since W^V K^V reduces to W^V < 1586873004 125843 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you ought to be able to get K^V in front as well, and that'll break things < 1586873028 966331 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I don't really believe it. But it's obviously more convoluted than I thought. < 1586873040 609157 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:40a3:ea61:cb37:f374 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by getting K^V in front? < 1586873106 686148 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:40a3:ea61:cb37:f374 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will make you a believer yet:-) < 1586873134 968211 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1586873196 759847 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric > 1586873434 945986 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Universal Lambda14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71038&oldid=44126 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+102) 10cat! < 1586874068 222420 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: here we go then: (\x. x (\_. x) x) (\x\_. x x) is in B. (the second \_ is part of a head context) > 1586874194 848735 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PureBrainz14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71039&oldid=71037 5* 03Sinjoro 5* (-4) 10 < 1586874286 407005 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:40a3:ea61:cb37:f374 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the W^V K^V part? < 1586874304 67715 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1586874320 931631 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\_. x) is in K W^{x} > 1586874382 482292 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Universal Lambda14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71040&oldid=71038 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1) 10/* External resources */ cat fix < 1586874425 396958 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You broke the invariant that elements in V will always become bound to values in W^V' for some V'. > 1586874444 38670 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71041 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+139) 10Created page with "An output command might be useful. ~~~~" < 1586874451 565649 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I would've been very much surprised if this had worked out. > 1586874626 55918 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PureBrainz14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71042&oldid=71039 5* 03Sinjoro 5* (+40) 10 > 1586874644 997173 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Golden sunrise14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71043&oldid=69856 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (-31) 10 < 1586874748 475283 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should've been quicker to find that example though, those false attempts were embarrassing. < 1586875075 432605 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:40a3:ea61:cb37:f374 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx for counterexample. W K only gives to a W in head position, where I assumed one at top < 1586875206 228589 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:40a3:ea61:cb37:f374 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a better way to include \x. x^2 in W ? > 1586875308 513616 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PureBrainz14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71044&oldid=71042 5* 03Sinjoro 5* (+0) 10 < 1586875345 378868 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: not without changing B. (\x. x (x (\z. z (\_. x)))) (\x\_. x x) has a normal form. < 1586875388 328813 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :by changing B I mean, drop all the head context stuff... you'll get a completely different story then, and tricks like these may just work < 1586875489 302982 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:40a3:ea61:cb37:f374 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean I could add an option to B^V where it can be W^V^2 < 1586875563 47811 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:40a3:ea61:cb37:f374 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, that's no good < 1586875577 311603 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:40a3:ea61:cb37:f374 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean v^2 for v in V < 1586875594 394086 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:40a3:ea61:cb37:f374 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm trying to get a little more general < 1586875629 11420 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand the desire, but the W/B thing is extremely delicate already. :) < 1586875643 727585 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586875671 223136 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586875764 791904 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh gosh < 1586875776 710633 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a legit mistake while writing the makefile < 1586875783 403953 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pushed it over and it passed CI, so I released it < 1586875801 859482 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it turns out, due to my mistake, on "victims" PC, `rm -rf /bin' is executed < 1586875829 20573 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: you got that by expanding a shell varible that's undefined, right? < 1586875835 356182 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:40a3:ea61:cb37:f374 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope victim is not running as root:) < 1586875836 381817 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1586875842 179877 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp, he was < 1586875860 935063 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, rm -rf ${installprefix}/bin < 1586875870 540744 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1586875871 656759 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then ${installprefix} is not defined < 1586875880 181835 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I patched it now < 1586875886 836575 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but meeeeh < 1586876002 397004 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586876069 923480 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how much did it mess up the victim's computer? < 1586876089 196215 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's got some utilities left in /bin somehow < 1586876092 735893 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but most of it is gone < 1586876111 799103 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I told him to reinstall coreutils using apt > 1586876136 654004 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:2KWLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71045&oldid=70606 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+181) 10 < 1586876343 931215 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:40a3:ea61:cb37:f374 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so adding v^2 for v in V in B is no good either, since v can be bound to your \x -> K (x x) ?! > 1586876432 600139 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[072KWLang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71046&oldid=70272 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+31) 10quote fix, etc > 1586876752 802862 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07XENBLN/Commands14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71047 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+17684) 10Created page with "| This language was designed to have minimal errors. | Note: If a command takes an integer or float/double as a parameter, it will try to convert those parameters to integers,..." < 1586876770 634133 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: yeah. > 1586876781 204635 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07XENBLN/Commands14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71048&oldid=71047 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+67) 10 > 1586876830 574095 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07XENBLN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71049&oldid=70441 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-44) 10/* Commands */ < 1586876871 164981 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: sure, but just coreutils is not enough < 1586876877 538065 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric : yeah < 1586876888 689212 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pasted him over a snippet that will reinstall all the packages hes got already < 1586876926 792805 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: but down in the line that will probably try to run something from /bin during installation < 1586876943 803509 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's got coreutils already < 1586876987 898862 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: you need bash and/or dash and probably more < 1586876998 136429 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's got zsh already < 1586877012 963305 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the installer scripts will try to run sh, not zsh < 1586877018 470261 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is fine by now < 1586877020 714921 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :symlink < 1586877028 932588 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good < 1586877083 450179 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :reminds me of the day I uninstalled libacl from my gentoo system < 1586877110 223187 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that broke most of coreutils) < 1586877177 236256 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I recall when I accidentally uninstalled X from the package manager by asking to uninstall what turns out to be a dependency, running startx, and it did nothing with no error or log message. it turns out that the package manager just symlinks X to false if neither Xfree86 or X.org is installed or some such nonsense. < 1586877193 624202 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that was back when XFree86 was an option > 1586877737 434778 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71050&oldid=71003 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+140) 10 > 1586877885 776905 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PureBrainz14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71051&oldid=71044 5* 03Sinjoro 5* (+104) 10 < 1586877990 128165 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1586878325 608984 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn, xfree's a few years older than me < 1586878642 139329 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well obviously it was a newer version < 1586878784 380981 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I presume < 1586878797 392474 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm talking about the initial release date < 1586878826 7897 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's quite possible that XFree86 wasn't actually available at that time already, but the alternative symlink system was still in place for historical reasons < 1586878844 225922 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have actually used XFree86 at some point though, back before I knew about X.org either < 1586879077 757391 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric predates X.org. < 1586879101 527401 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming Wikipedia's "Initial release: 6 April 2004" is accurate, anyway. < 1586879147 566374 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should falsify a few more years of back history to #esoteric and HackE?o by the way < 1586879177 699313 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1586879191 326363 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Welcome to the international center for esoteric language design, development and deployment, established in 1873." < 1586879207 648605 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wiki too I guess < 1586879463 715057 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586879724 665379 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I think the opposite, we should be founded in the future < 1586879738 458051 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: hmm, that's an interesting option too < 1586879756 700356 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric > 1586880179 472300 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PureBrainz14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71052&oldid=71051 5* 03Sinjoro 5* (+24) 10/* Powers of 2 */ < 1586880233 289752 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's actually amazing to see the traffic on the wiki < 1586880240 214780 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the fact that there are actually 100 connections to this channel < 1586880280 751112 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, exactly 100 > 1586880309 532641 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71053&oldid=70997 5* 03Sinjoro 5* (+17) 10 < 1586880538 44183 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :without fungot too < 1586880772 296964 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1586880789 723699 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07And14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71054&oldid=70648 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (-9) 10updated link again > 1586880791 441369 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Cheers14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71055&oldid=70646 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+0) 10updated link again > 1586880793 98449 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Duck Duck Goose14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71056&oldid=70645 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+0) 10updated link again > 1586880794 728633 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Noodle Soup14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71057&oldid=70647 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+0) 10updated link again < 1586880813 700273 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1586880866 309277 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: another option is we are established right now < 1586881694 338063 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586881717 707065 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1586884175 555748 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in all seriousness though < 1586884186 258047 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a shame some old members left < 1586884193 214576 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, people have lives < 1586884221 747015 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :true > 1586884928 503641 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PureBrainz14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71058&oldid=71052 5* 03Sinjoro 5* (+113) 10added Fibonacci sequence < 1586885086 811821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric > 1586885400 304742 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Willicoder 5* 10New user account < 1586885504 554716 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wha, where's fungot? > 1586885511 253689 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PureBrainz14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71059&oldid=71058 5* 03Sinjoro 5* (+540) 10 < 1586885514 541238 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And how long have we been fungot-deficient. > 1586885576 277068 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71060&oldid=71025 5* 03Willicoder 5* (+403) 10 < 1586885628 308069 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot JOIN :#esoteric < 1586885681 443715 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: How are you feeling? < 1586885681 748234 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: this hasn't been so important in the overall organization and they're thinking about removing lambda in version 3, with scheme48 as some fnord infty < 1586885706 578445 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :All subsystems nominal, I guess. < 1586885988 834746 :Willicoder!6c30a5b0@pool-108-48-165-176.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586886345 213673 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: JOIN :#esoteric < 1586886462 494691 :Willicoder!6c30a5b0@pool-108-48-165-176.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586886983 71165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily HackEso has mostly been picking up the slack < 1586888223 636079 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.194 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: as some fnord infty => I’d very like to meet that kind of infty < 1586888223 774025 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: i dropped the libertarian thing when i was using < 1586888328 975809 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586888546 391887 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, what is a fnord? < 1586888546 503114 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: be back in < 1586888590 367195 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a, that's something like foo or bar < 1586888793 810817 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :From a strictly technical sense & for fungot specifically, it's any infrequent word. There's a feature in the language model training to replace all with less than N occurrences with a special "UNK" token, which can generally speaking result in better (in terms of a performance-to-size tradeoff) models for analysis, but of course in synthesis the bot has to say *something* when the UNK token happens to < 1586888794 4738 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: julia is forcer's sweetie.). it already uses autotools? is that from < 1586888799 886618 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :come up. > 1586889130 634805 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Test14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71061&oldid=70920 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+6) 10 < 1586889958 869027 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586890004 170524 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.194 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: fnord fnord fnord fnord fnord < 1586890004 497357 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: where a/ b: a-b, fnord, write it. and when i rebooted and tried it again, this time with good cause i need to < 1586890010 896704 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.194 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes! < 1586890021 399947 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.194 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I win > 1586890143 958546 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Underload/Numbers14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71062&oldid=70983 5* 03CatIsFluffy 5* (-13) 10Optimizations > 1586890284 490281 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Underload/Numbers14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71063&oldid=71062 5* 03CatIsFluffy 5* (-2) 10Someday I will actually fix this before saving changes < 1586890528 501169 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Quit: quit > 1586890554 852332 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Perception14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71064 5* 03Baidicoot 5* (+452) 10Created page with "= Perception = This is a WIP (by which I mean 'I am currently trying to see if this language is a duplicate') Esolang where the user percives the language as one that can solv..." < 1586890674 847559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric > 1586890941 755336 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Eso2D14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71065&oldid=70734 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+24) 10/* Resources */ cat add > 1586891077 772324 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07LogicF---14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71066&oldid=70708 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+72) 10 > 1586891137 416536 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nybblang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71067&oldid=70096 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-6) 10/* Commands */ < 1586891142 672620 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: JOIN :#esoteric > 1586891172 665232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nybblang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71068&oldid=71067 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+25) 10/* Turing-Complete Nybblang */ memory is like a stack < 1586891314 628835 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1586891351 760334 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ROTfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71069&oldid=70546 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+126) 10 > 1586891458 16706 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PureBrainz14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71070&oldid=71059 5* 03Sinjoro 5* (-10) 10/* Print Function */ < 1586891494 996709 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: JOIN :#esoteric > 1586892512 849123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71071&oldid=71050 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+56) 10/* Infinite cat program */ < 1586893779 498129 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1586894300 600407 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71072&oldid=71012 5* 03Hdjensofjfnen 5* (-1) 10/* Microscript */ > 1586894323 622433 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Microscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71073&oldid=65647 5* 03Hdjensofjfnen 5* (+1) 10/* Truth-machine (3 bytes) */ > 1586894333 654750 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Microscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71074&oldid=71073 5* 03Hdjensofjfnen 5* (+0) 10/* Truth-machine (3 bytes) */ > 1586894354 771727 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Microscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71075&oldid=71074 5* 03Hdjensofjfnen 5* (+0) 10 > 1586894415 383225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Microscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71076&oldid=71075 5* 03Hdjensofjfnen 5* (-1) 10/* Truth-machine (4 bytes) */ Shoot, I forgot this was implicit > 1586894444 743479 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71077&oldid=71072 5* 03Hdjensofjfnen 5* (-1) 10/* Microscript */ < 1586895005 333621 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it be possible to make a simple assembly language that compiles to FRACTRAN? < 1586895163 802809 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1586895239 21616 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, based on TCness it's definitely /possible/, the question is more as to how efficient the resulting language is and how direct the compilation is < 1586895286 595113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, asms for The Waterfall Model seem reasonably easy to write, and there's a more or less direct TWM → Fractran compilation (although the resulting Fractran probably isn't very idiomatic) < 1586895400 1883 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should think to specify names by factors by prime numbers or whatever < 1586896338 518158 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh btw, this comment mentions J. H. Conway running a fractran program that presumably he wrote => https://terrytao.wordpress.com/2020/04/12/john-conway/#comment-552187 < 1586896357 69780 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :one that finds prime numbers < 1586896409 45238 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I should link that from the wiki page > 1586896497 613208 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Fractran14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71078&oldid=62112 5* 03B jonas 5* (+202) 10/* External resources */ > 1586897073 702822 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71079&oldid=71071 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+303) 10/* Examples */ < 1586897434 591985 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jqnufvjrhliluxzb QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1586898446 619216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71080&oldid=71079 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+52) 10 < 1586899110 652462 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Quit: Laa shay'a waqi'un moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine < 1586899223 455058 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586900503 224331 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586900614 361369 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586900674 43829 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1586902803 458698 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1586903131 355122 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hsbiuwtmbdvuhoga JOIN :#esoteric < 1586903490 904014 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586903968 728724 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586904040 338909 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586904143 676744 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586904166 809396 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.232.194 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586907277 263700 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1586910591 833860 :A35!6555062e@101.85.6.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586910658 805121 :A35!6555062e@101.85.6.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Sdofg < 1586910659 63632 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :A35: r2q2 is the wind behind my back. i use ultraedit and notepad++.) < 1586910681 87289 :A35!6555062e@101.85.6.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Who invented Sdofg? < 1586910681 323246 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :A35: the option type is a type ( stm t), what should i say < 1586910694 32283 :A35!6555062e@101.85.6.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Why did they invent Sdofg? < 1586910694 270611 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :A35: hmm you're right caseium... pltcollects doesn't work anything like a union in java. some people here have websites in dmoz? < 1586910733 406868 :A35!6555062e@101.85.6.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: How does Sfofg work like? < 1586910733 634389 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :A35: the moral of the story but the whole point of this thing called ' considering going outside' < 1586910800 167522 :A35!6555062e@101.85.6.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know how Sdofg was useful in the first place. < 1586910845 483175 :A35!6555062e@101.85.6.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Do you like to get recorded into the logs? < 1586910892 243835 :A35!6555062e@101.85.6.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Got↔Fun < 1586910987 954881 :A35!6555062e@101.85.6.46 PART :#esoteric < 1586911011 833669 :the!6555062e@101.85.6.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586911105 793968 :the!6555062e@101.85.6.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I chose the most frequent English word as my name. < 1586911122 340399 :the!6555062e@101.85.6.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This enables me to be nosy about every single message. < 1586911192 614200 :the!6555062e@101.85.6.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I start to get notifications from one year ago! < 1586911452 110117 :the!6555062e@101.85.6.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :When an edit is started, if you click preview, the edit is modified by a bot. < 1586911473 130408 :the!6555062e@101.85.6.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you submit the edit though, your content is being edited by another bot. < 1586911489 716987 :the!6555062e@101.85.6.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You consistently recieve edits to your userpages by bots. < 1586911510 664085 :the!6555062e@101.85.6.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately the system has hid all these bot edits because you've turned them off. < 1586911544 298868 :the!6555062e@101.85.6.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once these bots edit your computer's memory you won't be able to edit anymore. < 1586911581 626697 :the!6555062e@101.85.6.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :These bots don't exist in any memory and always affects you. < 1586911615 729910 :the!6555062e@101.85.6.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means that you can not use any software to delete them. < 1586911689 216966 :the!6555062e@101.85.6.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I'm basically saying nonsense I'd invite fungot. < 1586911689 390360 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :the: i have ironed my shirt once already today, minion! < 1586911735 803153 :the!6555062e@101.85.6.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, Bots like fungot don't really exist anywhere but on the Internet. < 1586911736 36303 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :the: and it's some unicode char like _ but at the moment, so i can fold them into a memory address < 1586911755 988358 :the!6555062e@101.85.6.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you try to search for fungot in your computer you won't be able to find anything. < 1586911756 113497 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :the: you could do it < 1586911802 446679 :the!6555062e@101.85.6.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, these bots are really powerful. E.g. fungot has already posted 1 million messages here already! < 1586911802 666981 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :the: lemme check if i'm just an outsider, eh :-p) if that's what you told < 1586911860 189015 :the!6555062e@101.85.6.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although you only see fungot posting inside the chatroom, they secretly edit wiki pages! < 1586911903 866381 :the!6555062e@101.85.6.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like most other bots, fungot randomly edits wiki pages without the system's notice. < 1586911964 765417 :the!6555062e@101.85.6.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't believe it? If you drag fungot's username onto the Desktop your computer will immediately be unusable. < 1586912770 641909 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you using Windows? < 1586913109 629849 :the!6555062e@101.85.6.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yes. < 1586913134 238591 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that explains it, then. < 1586913160 189681 :the!6555062e@101.85.6.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Explains what? < 1586913189 495123 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why if you drag fungot's username onto the Desktop your computer will immediately be unusable. < 1586913189 731434 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: so actors don't get access to those nice macros to help make an icfp contest team? ( you're on both channels, i see < 1586913200 818504 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use Linux, so there is no "Desktop", so it doesn't apply to me. < 1586913258 554090 :the!6555062e@101.85.6.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I was just saying nonsense. Before that message I verified twice to make sure that the username is not draggable. < 1586913279 871220 :the!6555062e@101.85.6.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if you dragged it, it will pretty much do nothing to your computer. < 1586913298 307081 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That depends what IRC client you are using whether or not it is draggable, I think. < 1586913454 302979 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although I don't know if any IRC client allows dragging usernames) < 1586913802 923517 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like custom Magic: the Gathering cards and puzzles? < 1586913873 713276 :the!6555062e@101.85.6.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dislike esolangs in general. < 1586913915 135627 :the!6555062e@101.85.6.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than, for some reason, golfing languages. < 1586913939 768436 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O. Well, there are a few golfing languages. < 1586914181 834664 :are!6555062e@101.85.6.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586914431 159965 :the!6555062e@101.85.6.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Go ahead. < 1586914450 82682 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go ahead to do what? < 1586914498 35742 :the!6555062e@101.85.6.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What's your purpose of mentioning "there are a few golfing languages" then? < 1586914540 62482 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is http://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Golfing_language < 1586914551 552481 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or make up your own) < 1586914551 931730 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you dislike esolangs, why are you here. < 1586914578 384536 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Code golf can be made with other programming languages too, though. < 1586914595 25565 :are!6555062e@101.85.6.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: yes? < 1586914861 245867 :the!6555062e@101.85.6.46 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586915161 862312 :are!6555062e@101.85.6.46 NICK :the < 1586915538 928891 :the!6555062e@101.85.6.46 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586916491 99767 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1586916580 329328 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodness it has been a long time since I actually esolanged. < 1586917234 646471 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hsbiuwtmbdvuhoga QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1586918770 791141 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will you do again today, though? < 1586919598 398923 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :idk, maybe < 1586919613 950090 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hard working up the energy for more tech stuff after spending a day job doing tech stuff < 1586919648 690199 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :And frankly Kubernetes-brand YAML feels like an esolang some days > 1586921863 961377 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Octo14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71081 5* 03Apollyon094 5* (+2151) 10Created page with "{{lowercase}} {{infobox proglang |name=Octal Composite Turing-complete OISCs |author=[[Asher I]] |year=[[:Category:2020|2020]] |memsys=tape-based |dimensions=one-dimensional |..." > 1586921918 174195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Octo14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71082&oldid=71081 5* 03Apollyon094 5* (-16) 10 > 1586921949 266753 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Octo14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71083&oldid=71082 5* 03Apollyon094 5* (-24) 10 > 1586921972 216568 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Octo14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71084&oldid=71083 5* 03Apollyon094 5* (+8) 10 > 1586922023 202690 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Octo14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71085&oldid=71084 5* 03Apollyon094 5* (+0) 10 > 1586922046 425769 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Octo14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71086&oldid=71085 5* 03Apollyon094 5* (+13) 10 > 1586922096 919930 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Asher I14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71087 5* 03Apollyon094 5* (+30) 10Redirected page to [[User:Apollyon094]] > 1586922188 310016 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Apollyon09414]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71088&oldid=70438 5* 03Apollyon094 5* (+86) 10 > 1586922241 796389 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Octo14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71089&oldid=71086 5* 03Apollyon094 5* (+0) 10 > 1586922255 517016 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Octo14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71090&oldid=71089 5* 03Apollyon094 5* (+0) 10 > 1586922274 886726 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Octo14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71091&oldid=71090 5* 03Apollyon094 5* (+1) 10 > 1586922325 2323 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Apollyon09414]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71092&oldid=71088 5* 03Apollyon094 5* (+113) 10 > 1586922782 870649 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Octo14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71093&oldid=71091 5* 03Apollyon094 5* (+114) 10 > 1586922800 543095 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Octo14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71094&oldid=71093 5* 03Apollyon094 5* (+1) 10 < 1586925545 785958 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric > 1586925643 35629 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Watermelon3D 5* 10New user account > 1586925857 212302 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71095&oldid=71060 5* 03Watermelon3D 5* (+163) 10/* Introductions */ < 1586926617 357969 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Wikipedia page on FRACTRAN feels so much more illuminating than the esolang wiki page > 1586927870 975094 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FishScript14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71096 5* 03Watermelon3D 5* (+4904) 10FishScript is a fish-based language. < 1586929964 473400 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586931890 742272 :konrads!~konrad@152.207.149.33 JOIN :#esoteric > 1586931985 274466 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FishScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71097&oldid=71096 5* 03Watermelon3D 5* (+153) 10 < 1586931985 719170 :konrads!~konrad@152.207.149.33 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586932105 814103 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds > 1586932147 673604 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FishScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71098&oldid=71097 5* 03Watermelon3D 5* (+23) 10 < 1586932515 322205 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1586933552 742541 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: rebooting < 1586936244 831604 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1586937565 249605 :shinh_!~i@129.EC0234U.cyberhome.ne.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586937782 102264 :shinh!~i@129.EC0234U.cyberhome.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1586941043 401796 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ioccclist http://www.ioccc.org/index.html Due to current world events, we are extending the 27th IOCCC until 2020-May-15 06:26:49 UTC < 1586941044 808904 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :ioccclist http://www.ioccc.org/index.html Due to current world events, we are extending the 27th IOCCC until 2020-May-15 06:26:49 UTC: b_jonas rain2 rain1 < 1586941358 666153 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh kspalaiologos found my easter-egg < 1586941376 386479 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm? < 1586941383 873021 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one about eggplants? < 1586941386 125986 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one I planted in the topic :P < 1586941392 307987 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1586941400 30000 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya got anymore of them? < 1586941406 590440 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's why it has a hyphen) < 1586941442 317459 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well the 5th word is also egg-inspired. < 1586941502 745106 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Easter is over, so maybe it's just egg-spired now. < 1586941622 639586 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Egg-spire sounds like a Minecraft construction. < 1586941689 761876 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, stacking eggs < 1586941729 685670 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you could build a bridge out of eggs and then you could walk on eggshells > 1586942311 185127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PureBrainz14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71099&oldid=71070 5* 03Sinjoro 5* (+21) 10/* Commands */ < 1586942488 930372 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: alternative idea: we are established in the ever moving now < 1586942975 581925 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1586943659 424490 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: the twist to that story is, maybe it's not moving at all. < 1586943729 724385 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586943871 414398 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1586943871 825020 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1586945110 248931 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( Modern clickbait... "10 things you don't care about and never will" ) < 1586946207 905955 :wib_jonas!b03f0c32@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.12.50 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586946824 318642 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://writings.stephenwolfram.com/2020/04/finally-we-may-have-a-path-to-the-fundamental-theory-of-physics-and-its-beautiful/ < 1586946949 617680 :wib_jonas!b03f0c32@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.12.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/comprehensive-rules-changes-2020-04-10 < 1586946961 983424 :wib_jonas!b03f0c32@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.12.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it mentions fuse counters explicitly < 1586947004 927564 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuses < 1586947016 10390 :wib_jonas!b03f0c32@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.12.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :re https://esolangs.org/logs/2020-04-02.html#lkc < 1586947126 667394 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( "As long as this card is in play, "fuse" is a valid counter subtype." ) < 1586947365 830637 :wib_jonas!b03f0c32@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.12.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, lands printed with three basic land types < 1586947597 358852 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1586947671 565918 :izabera_!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera NICK :izabera < 1586947837 325397 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( L-systems failed to describe nature... let's try graph rewriting instead. ) < 1586950425 443119 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1586950468 406109 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote Stephen Wolfram < 1586950469 777970 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1586951023 995557 :Kiwi61!6555062e@101.85.6.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586951040 833728 :Kiwi61!6555062e@101.85.6.46 PART :#esoteric < 1586951114 941433 :Kiwi61!6555062e@101.85.6.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586951140 785957 :Kiwi61!6555062e@101.85.6.46 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586951703 813358 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote wolfram < 1586951704 602231 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :618) wolfram armageddon, the genius overlord game \ 1027) would not be surprised to find out this tumblr is guerilla marketing by wolfram co to sell mathematica to stoners \ 1105) i find some deep satisfaction in the fact that the legacy wolfram will leave is as the man who made calculus homework orders of magnitude easier > 1586952468 752687 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71100&oldid=71053 5* 03Watermelon3D 5* (+17) 10/* F */ > 1586952616 793838 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Watermelon3D14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71101 5* 03Watermelon3D 5* (+41) 10Created page with "hi i am water melon i made [[FishScript]]" < 1586953043 753856 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586954157 718282 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1586954575 44583 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:40a3:ea61:cb37:f374 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1586954995 889489 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:8de3:9bdf:7ecd:91 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586956403 723351 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586956881 748741 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1586957050 385096 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good morning all < 1586957235 494648 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@172.242.0.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586958842 949846 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds > 1586959365 752481 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Ardie 5* 10New user account < 1586959490 790997 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.212.155 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586959629 237002 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@172.242.0.73 PART :#esoteric > 1586960011 55840 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71102&oldid=71095 5* 03Ardie 5* (+194) 10 > 1586960065 502973 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Ardie14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71103 5* 03Ardie 5* (+45) 10Created page with "I'm here looking for a language to formalize." > 1586960360 63635 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:RocketRace14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71104&oldid=69595 5* 03Ardie 5* (+158) 10 > 1586960377 296581 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:RocketRace14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71105&oldid=71104 5* 03Ardie 5* (+2) 10 > 1586960391 348794 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Ardie14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71106&oldid=71103 5* 03Ardie 5* (+77) 10 > 1586960911 740811 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71107&oldid=71080 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+340) 10/* Examples */ > 1586960995 369888 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71108&oldid=71107 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+3) 10/* Truth-machine */ < 1586961200 303583 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl JOIN :#esoteric > 1586961267 825541 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71109&oldid=71108 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+390) 10/* Variable Def */ < 1586964202 785748 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1586964343 180728 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:8de3:9bdf:7ecd:91 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: do you know how our BB programs deal with (\1 1) (\\1 (2 2)) ? < 1586964541 301399 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: I have seen that. However, I should wait to see when the rules are actually published, to know what they are (although about mutate and companion is mainly what I want to look for; my questions about ability counters have been answered in that document already) < 1586964563 712467 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: that's just a simple loop? < 1586964596 568627 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: T = (\\1 (2 2)), T T -> \1 (T T) and the (T T) is the next redex. < 1586964655 147496 :wib_jonas!b03f0c32@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.12.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: as for the new rules for mutate and companion, the release notes tells most of that: "https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/ikoria-lair-behemoths-and-commander-2020-edition-release-notes-2020-04-10" < 1586964728 484197 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.212.155 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pau day is 06-10 (recalculated from 04-71) < 1586964772 814862 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Easter isn't over. < 1586964777 36289 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:8de3:9bdf:7ecd:91 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: but it's not detected with isW ? < 1586964802 327459 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: O, I didn't see that. Now I can see. < 1586965021 317949 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: it shouldn't be. < 1586965022 458927 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the past I have generalized haunt, so that cards that are now haunt will become "haunt creature", but allowing new haunt cards to haunt other objects and/or players (it is not limited to permanents). So I thought also of a similar thing with mutate, where existing mutate becomes "mutate non-Human creature" (mutate is limited to permanents, though). < 1586965058 555936 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:8de3:9bdf:7ecd:91 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: and it's not detected with r `S.member` s ? < 1586965082 522380 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: it should be detected there. < 1586965150 155850 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:8de3:9bdf:7ecd:91 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought s collects the whole terms in a reduction < 1586965179 334269 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It collects redexes... the T T redex, which occurs again. < 1586965409 353392 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:8de3:9bdf:7ecd:91 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1586965433 975099 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "unusual situations" described for mutate seem to follow from the other rules, merely being clarification. < 1586965535 288312 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1586965608 68087 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:8de3:9bdf:7ecd:91 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: after hacking my program, it reports (\1 1) (\1 (1 (\\1 1) 1)) as unknown, which i didn't see before < 1586965652 706419 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:8de3:9bdf:7ecd:91 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't come up as TODO in yours either < 1586965677 835663 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have seen that one before < 1586965711 502339 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :+-- TODO: (\1 1) (\1 (1 (\1) 1) 1) < 1586965718 713668 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the first BB.txt commit. < 1586965727 659580 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, that's different. < 1586965792 585675 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:8de3:9bdf:7ecd:91 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has id in it, this has (K double) in it < 1586965792 777260 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: But I have seen quite a bit of trouble resulting from interaction of the loop detection and simplification. < 1586965801 160627 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:48:47 So, that's different. < 1586965875 128927 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I'm not working on any of this right now. < 1586966001 201124 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if fuse counters did grant fuse, fuse isn't a meaningful ability for permanents anyways. But I still like explicit ability counters such as "flying ability counter" instead. < 1586966212 924326 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1586966284 153973 :wib_jonas!b03f0c32@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.12.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, the echo counters were slightly more worrying to me. but the update bullet says that it clears that up. < 1586966341 810749 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586966386 511336 :wib_jonas!b03f0c32@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.12.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't like that wording though. "flying ability counter" sounds ok, but it sounds worse with some of the other relevant keyword abilities < 1586966743 701786 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586966935 965078 :wib_jonas!b03f0c32@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.12.50 QUIT :Quit: Connection closed < 1586967127 121941 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1586967536 96826 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :should we put the IOCCC news to the topic? < 1586967542 925837 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: Another possibility is to add quotation marks if it doesn't look good without it, I suppose. (This would also be used for parameterized keyword abilities and that stuff) < 1586967572 474150 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's old news, it's dated to three weeks before now < 1586967578 32580 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/before now/ago/ < 1586968553 307566 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: another possibility would be to call them something other than "counters", even if they mostly behave like counters, which would be useful because "counter" is an overloaded word anyway < 1586968576 13303 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, perhaps. But I don't know what to call it. < 1586968726 755893 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, even if I use that in my unofficial cards I probably would not change it, since I don't want to make too many major incompatible changes to existing rules. < 1586968826 754010 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: they need not be incompatible if you say that it's just a different wording, like a synonym < 1586968908 936572 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :an incompatibility would be when a game situation that can come up in both your variant and vanilla diverges to a different game state < 1586969038 759469 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, OK. < 1586969347 463571 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the plus side, we finally have payoff for the old rules change that turned lifelink to be no longer a trigger on the damage < 1586969446 841225 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ikoria has lifelink counters, and multiple of them on the are mostly redundant (except to costs or effects that consume an arbitrary counter from a permanent, eg. Medicine Runner or Power Conduit) < 1586970165 325869 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, although there are other advantages to that change of lifelink too < 1586970394 30631 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sure: surviving combat more often because you gain life from your lifelink blocker knights the same time as you lose life from the opponent's creatures combat damage < 1586970886 547258 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe "rune" can mean ability counter. (I think I have seen some other games using "rune" in this way. The problem with this is if "rune" becomes a new type or subtype.) > 1586974274 627119 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71110&oldid=71109 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+14) 10/* Truth-machine */ < 1586974567 420185 :MDude!~MDude@97-127-171-136.cdrr.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1586974992 477408 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1586975975 381181 :MDude!~MDude@76.5.111.158 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586977103 707081 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1586977533 437028 :MDead!~MDude@74.5.130.30 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586977542 354750 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1586977623 425168 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Client Quit < 1586977721 995616 :MDude!~MDude@76.5.111.158 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586977728 437788 :MDead!~MDude@74.5.130.30 NICK :MDude < 1586978097 687059 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1586978098 285386 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07P14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71111&oldid=36345 5* 03Nonameremote 5* (+156) 10Added external resource < 1586980781 359563 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1586981032 398763 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 QUIT :Quit: I seem to have stopped. < 1586981041 265669 :stux!stux2@grid9.quadspeedi.net QUIT :Quit: Aloha! < 1586981049 309388 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1586981173 182489 :jix_!~jix@static.71.5.69.159.clients.your-server.de NICK :jix < 1586981223 649416 :stux!stux2@grid9.quadspeedi.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1586983797 299326 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71112&oldid=71110 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+744) 10 < 1586984372 830705 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-005-215-076.178.005.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds > 1586984428 128492 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bunk bed14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71113&oldid=70906 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+2) 10/* Reverse bits */ > 1586985318 16797 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FishScript14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71114&oldid=71098 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+56) 10cat add < 1586985445 334190 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-007-125-076.178.007.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1586987001 387026 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586987106 618199 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1586987171 757118 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1586992294 806800 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1586992413 310686 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1586994339 302442 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1586994946 32268 :preston!~preston@45.56.169.227 JOIN :#esoteric < 1586995379 353791 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you dont know, Fractran is an esoteric programming language. That means it is extraordinary difficult to write any program in Fractran." < 1586995388 863114 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like it's immediately critical to disprove it. < 1586995399 441839 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HQ9+ depending on program desired? < 1586995437 261185 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it might say something not great about me that I instantly desired to nitpick the ascribed meaning of esoteric programming language < 1586995466 412502 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://malisper.me/building-fizzbuzz-fractran-bottom/ < 1586995501 782910 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.212.155 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1586999318 577854 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1587002919 41536 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The article about category theory on Wikipedia does not mention category of matrices, it look like to me. > 1587004646 697721 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Chicken14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71115&oldid=59475 5* 03Watermelon3D 5* (+107) 10 > 1587004711 105099 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Chicken14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71116&oldid=71115 5* 03Watermelon3D 5* (+2) 10 < 1587005014 895043 :preston!~preston@45.56.169.227 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1587005741 834870 :Elderberry!bc4a4017@188.74.64.23 JOIN :#esoteric > 1587006284 831725 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Chicken14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71117&oldid=71116 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+16) 10Swapped a few categories around < 1587006445 307660 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1587007656 834900 :Elderberry!bc4a4017@188.74.64.23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1587008314 445443 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1587009371 169122 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1587009498 984574 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1587009505 493970 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1587010176 626515 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in English, is there a rude or taboo word matching /^([klmnrst][aiu]|[aiu][klmnrst]){2}/i , including a misspelled word that could still be considered rude like "fukc", but other than "kaka"? I'm trying to make a human-typable encoding for something, but want to make sure it won't result in words that people may consider insulting. "kaka" doesn't matter because repeated syllables are not allowed. < 1587010193 330068 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there is, I can change those set of letters (while keeping the cardinality). < 1587010341 14331 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, but does PCRE have a way to specify that this repetition is not allowed? Also, do you need the set of letters to be same regardless of the order? < 1587010467 587613 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1587014177 849147 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric > 1587014464 382172 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Babalang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71118&oldid=70908 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+56) 10Add external resources section > 1587014529 73111 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Babalang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71119&oldid=71118 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+54) 10Fix link formatting < 1587014760 240204 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1587014765 460378 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1587016884 101127 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages-loud < 1587016884 346459 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :spruit11 said 6d 10h 45m 19s ago: Could, or would, you be so kind to support an arxiv submission of a paper I wrote? < 1587016950 298311 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :spruit11: i have never submitted to arxiv, and haven't had an academic position in nearly two decades, so i don't think i'm eligible. < 1587016974 609362 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell spruit11 i have never submitted to arxiv, and haven't had an academic position in nearly two decades, so i don't think i'm eligible. < 1587016974 805946 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1587017088 478718 :rodgort!~rodgort@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1587017533 827537 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1587017555 594464 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587017627 802359 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1587017929 783823 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds > 1587017938 886445 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03LorryWoodman 5* 10New user account < 1587017972 487651 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1587018247 129669 :iczero!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero QUIT :Excess Flood < 1587018280 356126 :iczero!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero JOIN :#esoteric < 1587018396 831925 :rodgort!~rodgort@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric > 1587018517 276854 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71120&oldid=71102 5* 03LorryWoodman 5* (+239) 10/* Introductions */ > 1587018669 167596 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Subleq14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71121&oldid=67339 5* 03LorryWoodman 5* (+10) 10Correct TechTinkering URL < 1587018687 559489 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : So, Agatha's being reminded of the waters of the Dyne in today's GG, right? <-- i thought so, i was basically expecting the next strips to suggest the Dyne _was_ the cause (assuming the true source of the Dyne is outside the time bubble, it can't flow through the castle's curse-extraction machinery anymore) < 1587018725 638078 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that was several strips ago, and nothing said < 1587018805 516951 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:8de3:9bdf:7ecd:91 QUIT :Read error: No route to host < 1587019014 337235 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1587019057 84670 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister JOIN :#esoteric < 1587019672 838092 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :_what_ < 1587019869 390389 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: where? < 1587019906 809155 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this message about < 1587020069 347255 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which message < 1587020314 302085 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1587020798 833358 :A-ee!6555062e@101.85.6.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587020856 177102 :A-ee!6555062e@101.85.6.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like you can't fold a sheet of printing paper over 7 times. < 1587020885 814541 :A-ee!6555062e@101.85.6.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But by the time you get to that, you are obviously doing something wrong. :) < 1587020927 731023 :A-ee!6555062e@101.85.6.46 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587021126 16953 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1587021326 118383 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds > 1587021605 319943 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FishScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71122&oldid=71114 5* 03Watermelon3D 5* (+48) 10/* Commands */ < 1587023212 839899 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5cf9:29d7:fe8c:28bf JOIN :#esoteric < 1587023480 839728 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5cf9:29d7:fe8c:28bf QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1587023655 74302 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1587024366 713591 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1587025330 251822 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1587025356 429690 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1587026931 533565 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I could write a regex that doesn't allow repetitions, but I wanted my question to be human-readable, so I didn't < 1587027102 138601 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: same regardless the order: yes. this is for representing the moves in a board game, in a video game implementation. there's a board that is a square grid of size 7x3, a player chooses two distinct squares for their move. I want to label the columns and rows, and the players will represent that move towards my software by typing four letters. it's enough to always write the squares with the column < 1587027108 146882 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :consonant first and the row vowel after, < 1587027129 747911 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's how I'll print moves, but I want the game to be easily usable without much of a learning curve, so I want to accept the other order too. < 1587027225 121314 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so my current plan is to label the columns KLMNRST and the rows AIU, but I have a lot of freedom here < 1587027456 568034 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grep -E '^([klmnrst][aiu]|[aiu][klmnrst]){2}$' /usr/dict/words|grep na|head -1 < 1587027457 438490 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep: invalid option -- ' ' \ Usage: grep [OPTION]... PATTERNS [FILE]... \ Try 'grep --help' for more information. < 1587028224 427066 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587028236 568632 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: is there any reason you can't use letter-digit pairs? < 1587028245 727608 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the usual solution to this problem < 1587028281 358017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, I think most swearwords in English are consonant-heavy, but I think potentially offensive combinations are almost impossible to avoid because of all the languages they could be potentially offensive in < 1587028290 336516 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's not enough to just avoid /English/ swearwords) < 1587030198 686761 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587030300 340215 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I could use letter-digit pairs too, yes < 1587030340 800955 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1587030341 297394 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1587030427 572868 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but some of the audience is fluent in leetspeak and replacing letters with digits, so even with digits you have to be careful. the move could spell K1K3 or something. < 1587030558 384756 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could even go with digits only, with 3456789 for the columns and 123 for the rows. < 1587030637 528495 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely you want 0 in there to avoid the duplicated 3? < 1587030665 716069 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? what's wrong with a duplicated 3? < 1587030843 22402 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could go with a boring ABCDEFG for columns and 123 for the rows. it works for chess so it can't be too offensive. < 1587030930 353188 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@82.27.195.88 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587030930 431525 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@82.27.195.88 QUIT :Changing host < 1587030930 431562 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1587030934 460687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: you'd have an ambiguity if /two/ digits were duplicated; there's no ambiguity with one digit duplicated but it may be hard to mentally parse because you don't know what a 3 means without looking at the other one < 1587030987 823592 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's true. I plan to display the moves visually on the board, so mental parsing isn't too much of a problem, but it might still be better to avoid. < 1587030999 732656 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in chess you occasionally get ambiguites that need to be resolved as, say, Rcc3 and R3c3, a duplicated 3 would make that sort of ambiguity even more confusing to resolve < 1587031081 606007 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in chess notation, yes. this isn't chess notation and there are no kings and rooks and bishops and knights. < 1587033011 380633 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-007-125-076.178.007.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.7.1 < 1587033704 182158 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh fungot is here, rejoice < 1587033704 389201 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: my parser doesn't do character classes, so harder for anyone but him why shouldn't he do that < 1587034512 446509 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587035363 702486 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1587035918 95231 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1587035934 843524 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587035970 296101 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1587036897 900968 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@172.242.0.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587037214 90893 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587038453 737325 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1587040142 19573 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: what output would you expect from print $ nf $ let lid = Abs (Var 0) in Abs (App (Var 0) (Abs lid)) `App` lid ? < 1587040175 225384 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you expect Nothing? < 1587040522 768511 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even simpler, from print $ nf $ App (Abs (App (Var 0) (Var 0))) (Abs (Var 0)) ? < 1587040614 832578 :Elderberry!bc4a4017@188.74.64.23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587041353 701039 :Elderberry!bc4a4017@188.74.64.23 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the room usually active, or often dead? < 1587041558 411242 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: the problem is that simplify ends up doing the reduction that is later done by nf, and then nf seeing a repeating redex < 1587041604 979829 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's my debugging output for illustration: < 1587041609 331717 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nf [] (\1 1) (\1) < 1587041609 369929 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\1 1) (\1) simplifies to \1 < 1587041609 442100 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :r = \1 case \1 1 of < 1587041611 340967 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nf [\1] (\1) (\1) < 1587041613 385955 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\1) (\1) simplifies to \1 < 1587041615 345681 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :r = \1 case \1 of < 1587041617 331209 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :repeating redex \1 < 1587041619 324272 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing < 1587041716 365893 :pimlu!617e7abf@97-126-122-191.tukw.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1587041822 569764 :pimlu!617e7abf@97-126-122-191.tukw.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys, for anyone who has an interest in FRACTRAN, I made a really fast FRACTRAN interpreter < 1587041849 945794 :pimlu!617e7abf@97-126-122-191.tukw.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should make more classes of programs runnable than previously was possible < 1587041853 909198 :pimlu!617e7abf@97-126-122-191.tukw.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://pimlu.github.io/fractran/ < 1587041903 246908 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: I would not expect it to terminate on infinite terms, precisely because simplification is pretty eager < 1587041936 859217 :Elderberry!bc4a4017@188.74.64.23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1587041942 456999 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it mistakes a term with normal form for one without < 1587041945 414558 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks < 1587041975 158749 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm gonna try to do the simplification at start of nf, before the case analysis < 1587041976 219065 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm < 1587042008 484580 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just should not IRC before waking up. < 1587042023 495899 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(never mind that it's the middle of the afternoon) < 1587042045 313798 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems to work better < 1587042060 219081 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :enjoy your coffee:-) < 1587042060 981125 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1587042171 330349 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what you're saying is that I have a bug. < 1587042174 977304 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good to know. < 1587042271 335068 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. my bugfix produces lots more TODOs < 1587042280 315133 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably connected to simplifying redexrs before adding them to the list of seen redexes. < 1587042286 803761 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1587042347 481950 :pimlu!617e7abf@97-126-122-191.tukw.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhh man the font is messed up in the help menu. no such thing as releasing without bugs < 1587042559 618928 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587042649 19127 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: I undid the offending change (which I never intended to commit in the first place... but it happened and I thought the code was kind of okay at that point) < 1587042673 85023 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dangers of commit -a < 1587043027 46287 :pimlu!617e7abf@97-126-122-191.tukw.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, should be fixed now. anyway, the fast interpreter uses big integers for the register values < 1587043037 365029 :pimlu!617e7abf@97-126-122-191.tukw.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and can actually run for example, 2^100 iterations of some programs) < 1587043370 946570 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: reverted the corresponding list in BB.txt as well < 1587043546 500529 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: Sorry about that. I had played with the code one very late evening and ended up with something I no longer understood. < 1587043627 610729 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I had no intention of committing it so I thought that was fine. < 1587043815 248408 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587043839 684181 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the revert doesn't support B^V = W^V B^V anymore? < 1587044221 347041 :preston!~preston@45.56.169.227 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587044229 46861 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.14.22.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1587044275 666142 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.14.22.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :esopriveteric > 1587044341 213699 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TheSingularity14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71123&oldid=65722 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-6) 10/* Conditional statements */ > 1587044530 606810 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Elderberry 5* 10New user account < 1587044564 647153 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: your current BBx bombs with a BBx: BBx.lhs:(25,3)-(27,29): Non-exhaustive patterns in function size < 1587044603 331978 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everytime I see a word elderberry, I automatically think of Monthy Python's "your mother was a hamster and your father smells of elderberries" < 1587044879 817490 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Fetchez la vache! < 1587044892 274202 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-007-125-076.178.007.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric > 1587045309 874564 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71124&oldid=71120 5* 03Elderberry 5* (+273) 10 < 1587046751 837752 :Elderberry!bc4a4017@188.74.64.23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587046930 170459 :Elderberry!bc4a4017@188.74.64.23 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587047434 256860 :pimlu!617e7abf@97-126-122-191.tukw.qwest.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587047888 830010 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric > 1587050270 98974 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:FishScript14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71125 5* 03Willicoder 5* (+156) 10Created page with "What does "doubles the fish in front of it" mean? (with the tilde) ~~~~" > 1587051336 651103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Asm2bf14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71126&oldid=70992 5* 03Palaiologos 5* (+79) 10newest instruction format < 1587052476 435566 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Quit: quit > 1587053154 603823 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:FishScript14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71127&oldid=71125 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+441) 10 < 1587053240 902171 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587053638 789835 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587053658 138492 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587054691 529377 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: there is no BBx.lhs < 1587054720 300200 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: or, if there is, it's yours, not mine. < 1587054983 556552 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i had one, but renamed it. and now when i do ghc --make BBx.hs, it somehow compiles my other program and calls it ./BBx < 1587055064 855058 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry for false alarm < 1587055332 361309 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: maybe it's a timestamp problem? BBx.hs older than BBx.hi and BBx.o... < 1587055476 47016 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a possibility at least... which is kind of funny because nowadays, the recompilation check is intelligent enough to catch changes in optimization flags. < 1587055498 466938 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But apparently the source file name is not on the list of criteria :) > 1587055535 403219 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:2KWLang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71128&oldid=71045 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-12) 10better wiki style > 1587055559 726481 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:FishScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71129&oldid=71127 5* 03Willicoder 5* (+160) 10 < 1587055588 321581 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@172.242.0.73 PART :#esoteric < 1587056355 775550 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: And right, the revert dropped all changes, including the (sound) extension to W. < 1587056399 560352 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not in a good mindset to think about this, so I just reverted to a known safe version. < 1587057243 649850 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm happy, I may have found a deterministic reproduction of the frequent crashes of the software we use at work. Tomorrow I'll have to work to reduce it to as small as I can. < 1587057303 493257 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what beam was that? < 1587057316 186630 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, wrong channel for the last line < 1587057546 293363 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: what beam was that? < 1587057546 532543 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i think i'd prefer a way of thinking. be careful though... scheme is killin' me here!! < 1587057571 727689 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one was pretty good. < 1587057583 13209 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grwp scheme < 1587057585 314431 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily:“Sane Mapoleon” boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine. He is also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken, a METARologist, seriously lacking in the f-word department, a thwack doctor, a Quintopial antipodist, and a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world kafkaesque. \ ciol:ciol is a language designed by moon_, it started as a scheme to annoy colleagues by making a programming < 1587057653 329382 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`2 grwp scheme < 1587057654 727147 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/3:ing language that has insults as commands. \ cipation:A cipation is an evil scheme that only works if no one is prepared for it. \ keming:Keming is a text compression scheme popular in Word processors. \ madbr:madbr alternates between making sense, and being logical. He doesn't monetize the brotherhood scheme. \ oregon:Oregon is the home of Oregano. Gregor used to take care of the color scheme, but then he left. \ taah:TaAH (Terrible and A < 1587057658 452346 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1587057659 399110 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :3/3:d-Hoc) is the naming scheme used for HackEso commands. It is highly acronymous and portmantic. < 1587057694 405509 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric > 1587057790 131236 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07AT14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71130&oldid=70100 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+52) 10Add pronunciation > 1587057959 793209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07AT14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71131&oldid=71130 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (-2) 10 > 1587058007 274753 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07AT14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71132&oldid=71131 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+16) 10 < 1587059117 645327 :MDead!~MDude@74.5.130.30 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587059119 477251 :MDude!~MDude@74.5.130.30 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1587059124 987259 :MDead!~MDude@74.5.130.30 NICK :MDude < 1587059171 896546 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan oh. bummer. < 1587059172 174341 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1587059509 253745 :preston!~preston@45.56.169.227 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1587059739 930189 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587060356 925074 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. How unfortunate. < 1587060362 719315 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now what? < 1587060465 249888 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what now? < 1587061160 485674 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.14.22.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a Rihanna song with this name < 1587061184 353374 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.14.22.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :what no-o-o-ow < 1587061370 255624 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hllo < 1587061573 884514 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to submit some thingy I wrote to arxiv and need an endorser. But who? < 1587061589 709414 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently not oerjan. Bummer. < 1587061614 971806 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe try viXra if you cannot post on arXiv, I suppose. < 1587061659 130890 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have a look. < 1587061723 969009 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. I'ld rather not, I guess. < 1587061731 144494 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bit of a bad rep. > 1587061741 862422 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FishScript14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71133&oldid=71122 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+125) 10/* Interpreters */ Added Willicoder's repo < 1587061998 853231 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1587062000 439202 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't konw if there is any prohibition against posting on viXra and then later post on arXiv too once you have an endorser. < 1587062115 348510 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, I looked at the instructions and it says it is OK, apparently. < 1587062158 749154 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yah, but it doesn't make sense to me. > 1587062166 201715 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Test14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71134&oldid=71061 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+59) 10Removed redirect to [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)]] < 1587062187 800790 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I can post it on Facebook too. > 1587062217 162983 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Test14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71135&oldid=71134 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+164) 10 < 1587062219 590221 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh! post it on facebook < 1587062245 799859 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, well. I already did. < 1587062260 67045 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then, there's nobody there who would really care. < 1587062264 464596 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmpf. < 1587062324 738350 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno. < 1587062376 708939 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the document about? < 1587062420 189977 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit of a lowbrow document about how my language, Egel, evaluates stuff. < 1587062435 184654 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemme give the link. < 1587062468 694965 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/egel-lang/egel-tex/blob/master/semantics/semantics.pdf < 1587062498 759655 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see nothing about subset of PDF to use, except that it should not embed executable files, but I think that they should be limited to a better subset, because many of the features of PDF is no good. < 1587062551 519192 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh? > 1587062606 572615 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71136&oldid=71112 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+416) 10 < 1587062827 864533 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1587063101 900826 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.14.22.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :spruit11: wish you luck :) < 1587063166 940987 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need an endorser, not luck! < 1587063174 574748 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :But thanks, anyway. < 1587063386 946349 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: leaving > 1587064027 558535 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Indent14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71137&oldid=70993 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-2) 10/* Int literals */ < 1587064037 99041 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll ask in #proglangdesign? < 1587064044 720189 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's try that. > 1587064048 129770 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Indent14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71138&oldid=71137 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+15) 10/* Examples */ > 1587064111 950962 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Indent14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71139&oldid=71138 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+17) 10/* Functions */ > 1587064123 442554 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Indent14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71140&oldid=71139 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-8) 10/* Examples */ > 1587064217 247543 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Indent14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71141&oldid=71140 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+118) 10/* Variables */ < 1587064374 837001 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds > 1587064505 971836 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07String14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71142&oldid=66282 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-30) 10Fixed links > 1587064814 187860 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07String-rewriting paradigm14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71143&oldid=56716 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1) 10fixed link; should this not be a concept article? > 1587065134 910753 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07String rewriting paradigm14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71144&oldid=68285 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+79) 10template + cats > 1587065144 245697 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07String rewriting paradigm14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71145&oldid=71144 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10template fix > 1587065497 340925 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07String-rewriting paradigm14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71146&oldid=71143 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+128) 10 > 1587065545 705241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07String-rewriting paradigm14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71147&oldid=71146 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+22) 10/* Examples */ > 1587065573 931634 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Willicoder14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71148 5* 03Willicoder 5* (+188) 10Created page with "Hi! I'm Willicoder and I love to code! I made an interpreter for [[FishScript]], and I might make an esolang someday. If you want to contact me, use User_talk:Willicoder|my..." < 1587066700 729909 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587067129 256629 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1587069638 805371 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric > 1587069943 576237 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Strvar14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71149 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1838) 10Created page with "'''Strvar''' is an esolang by [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow]] based on [[string]] [[rewriting]]. ==Syntax== Every line in a Strvar program is either a variable definition or..." > 1587070007 310651 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71150&oldid=71077 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+202) 10/* Strvar */ < 1587070028 871529 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric > 1587070170 180521 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71151&oldid=70960 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+13) 10/* Languages */ > 1587070212 30099 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71152&oldid=71100 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+13) 10/* S */ < 1587071751 433497 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the most number of pieces to give check at once in xiangqi? I made up a quadruple check. < 1587072012 277844 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :proc lambda {arguments body args} { < 1587072012 457584 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : return [list ::apply [list $arguments $body] {*}$args] < 1587072012 496059 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1587072035 533721 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What programming language is it? < 1587072042 750436 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tcl < 1587072724 306802 :preston!~preston@45.56.169.228 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587073402 9332 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1587073462 850991 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587073574 301853 :preston!~preston@45.56.169.228 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1587073586 646417 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1587073586 780687 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1587076335 91551 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: my current BB.lhs has only 1 TODO at 32, 2 at 33 and 34 each < 1587076394 560181 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :using generalized W rule, triple loop detection, and argument reduction on strict functions < 1587076426 975439 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also found no slowdown of lists instead of S.Set < 1587076477 34181 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :will try 35 tomorrow, after dental visit < 1587079250 909611 :ineiros!ineiros@kapsi.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1587081659 987462 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.14.22.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1587082838 125551 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1587082980 508045 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's pretty Tcl alright < 1587084438 487910 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"pretty Tcl" as in, that Tcl snippit looks nice, or "pretty Tcl" as in, that snippit is very Tcl-like? < 1587085237 781055 :Soni!~quassel@unaffiliated/soniex2 NICK :SoniEx2 < 1587088172 878294 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you make TeX to keep a question mark on the same page as the beginning of the sentence it belongs to? I can think of a few possibilities, but have not tried it. < 1587088214 448313 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1587088271 104845 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1587090391 45556 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know Setext? Like Markdown and reStructuredText, it is made to be readable without specialized software. However, Wikipedia lists the MIME type only for Markdown. > 1587090687 502502 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Underload/Numbers14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71153&oldid=71063 5* 03CatIsFluffy 5* (+2972) 10Because 131 wasn't enough > 1587090865 508914 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71154&oldid=70818 5* 03CatIsFluffy 5* (+316) 10/* Adding Underload numbers */ new section < 1587095219 448887 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The snippet is Tcl, and rather elegant < 1587095303 980399 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :any of y'all ever play a MOO/MUSH/MUCK before. < 1587095374 626937 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a slight presence on M*U*S*H and LambdaMOO < 1587095437 403303 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an account on ifMUD < 1587095488 729185 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have but never really got _into_ it < 1587095524 264310 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :fascinerating. < 1587095524 835631 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fictional world in my head is based on a LambdaMOO-like universe < 1587095637 45920 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it kind of bothers me that services like that haven't been "mainstreamed" in a style similar to Discord. < 1587095776 706939 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fun people could have together could be unimaginable. < 1587095953 825468 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: have you ever written any MUSHcode? < 1587095970 952261 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :seeing it makes me think it should have an esolangs wiki entry. < 1587095981 118818 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you give a short example? < 1587095996 719328 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A little bit. Enough to make a random "maze" (not actually consistent enough to really be called a maze) < 1587096037 752488 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: https://github.com/volundmush/mushcode < 1587096067 655446 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand half of what's going on here. < 1587096130 187970 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The u() function is important. < 1587096135 421410 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm helpful! < 1587096172 154181 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmao. < 1587096178 153574 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lines starting with &Q seem to contain SQL codes after the equal sign. < 1587096303 685909 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than that, I don't know. > 1587096426 390458 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Octo14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71155&oldid=71094 5* 03Apollyon094 5* (-52) 10 < 1587096479 465578 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Let's look at the anatomy of a very simple command. < 1587096479 594684 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :&cmd_hello #1234=$hello:@pemit %#=Hello, world!" < 1587096484 469476 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mushcode.com/File/Moes-Mushkode-Manual---Rules-of-Code--Beginning-Commands- < 1587096515 600637 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sets an attribute on object #1234 called cmd_hello with those contents > 1587096587 110187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:I like frog14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71156&oldid=70811 5* 03Apollyon094 5* (+158) 10 < 1587096597 435602 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, OK. < 1587096767 486100 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is an example of a ifMUD code: @print("Today is ",@let(1,@add(@switch(@time("mon"),0,-1,1,30,2,58,3,89,4,119,5,150,6,180,7,211,8,242,9,272,10,303,11,333),@time("mday")),@switch(@print(@time("mon"),"/",@time("mday")),"1/29","St. Tib's Day", @print(@switch(@mod("%1",5),0,"Sweetmorn",1,"Boomtime",2,"Pungenday",3,"Prickle-Prickle",4,"Setting Orange"),", ",@switch(@idiv("%1",73),0,"Chaos",1,"Discord",2,"Confusion",3,"Bureaucracy",4,"T < 1587096788 678220 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That is a code I wrote.) < 1587096906 921385 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The @print() function actually does string concatenation; it doesn't actually print anything. < 1587097095 349067 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's interesting that this is intended to fit on a single line. < 1587097110 777488 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUCKcode looks a bit better by comparison. < 1587097400 736504 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MOOcode is so much cleaner. Actual lines! > 1587097650 750797 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07I like frog14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71157&oldid=70074 5* 03Apollyon094 5* (+222) 10 < 1587100194 859145 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fxmbgdseweobncjt QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100195 180999 :APic!apic@apic.name QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100196 508681 :probablymoony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100196 508752 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100196 660564 :dnm_!sid401311@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jitcmpemkqzepcqv QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100196 660609 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100197 564720 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-xzyaisbqzvkskrdj QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100197 781613 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-234-164-48.compute-1.amazonaws.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100197 781670 :MDude!~MDude@74.5.130.30 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100198 177437 :BWBellairs!~bwbellair@hellomouse/dev/bwbellairs QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100198 177488 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100198 284922 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100198 284962 :Cale!~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100198 284970 :ornxka!~ornxka@unaffiliated/ornx QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100198 403542 :aji!~alex@unaffiliated/aji QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100198 403582 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100198 403590 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100198 481643 :Deewiant!~deewiant@de1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100198 481687 :LBPHacker!lbphacker@trigraph.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100198 562688 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100198 562782 :ocharles!sid30093@musicbrainz/user/ocharles QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100199 486446 :xylochoron[m]!xylochoron@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-vlvkegcgsdxmwhtq QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100199 716379 :haavard!root@haavard.me QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100199 859213 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100199 902161 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100199 902245 :diginet!~diginet@107.170.146.29 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100200 12441 :laerling!~lsf@unaffiliated/laerling QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100200 88990 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100200 89088 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100200 202416 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100200 202503 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100200 309364 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100200 309466 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100200 382863 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100200 439992 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100200 440103 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@sorunome.de QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100200 440135 :mra90!Martin@nat/intel/x-cfjznfrnqplsfvwi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100200 440162 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100200 566132 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100200 566215 :rodgort!~rodgort@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100201 9302 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100201 65273 :sparr!~sparr@pdpc/supporter/active/sparr QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100201 128316 :myndzi!myndzi@tetrisguide.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100201 128401 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100201 210087 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-007-125-076.178.007.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100201 210166 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100201 210187 :stux!stux2@grid9.quadspeedi.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100201 210205 :shinh!~i@129.EC0234U.cyberhome.ne.jp QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100201 257492 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100201 257572 :jix!~jix@static.71.5.69.159.clients.your-server.de QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100201 257592 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-146-112-4.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100201 257608 :mniip!mniip@freenode/staff/mniip QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100201 454674 :nchambers!uplime@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100201 454750 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100201 454768 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100201 703804 :xavo[m]!undersco1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-wgwnxhhmtkkndjuy QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100202 241382 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100202 358144 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-b0486e-15.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100202 412500 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uokwdxpbfutetegr QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100202 412539 :^[_!sid43445@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/sixth/zgrep QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100202 525976 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100202 618581 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100202 618621 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100202 761983 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100202 762025 :diverger!~div@193.9.112.184 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100202 891269 :shig!~davidb@inara.oztechninja.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100202 891326 :catern!~catern@catern.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100203 49533 :iczero!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100203 49575 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100203 49584 :glowcoil!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vxsogqhlxlhjgaib QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100203 132556 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100203 258473 :dog_star!sid310875@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bkmsprfnywrkykzt QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100203 258526 :relrod!~relrod@redhat/relrod QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100203 358516 :lynn_!sid154965@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qhrpzgxcylkpquuh QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100203 358560 :ProofTechnique!sid79547@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ghyzuqdvajivhjps QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100203 477323 :vertrex!~vertrex@unaffiliated/vertrex QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100203 477362 :interruptinuse!~interrupt@girl.mrtheplague.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100203 477369 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100203 477375 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100203 709829 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100203 768858 :howlands_!gilesgate@sdf-eu.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100203 852901 :Banana51!~user@unaffiliated/banana51 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100205 17137 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100205 17925 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100205 66746 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100205 136122 :trn!jhj@prone.ws QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100205 208684 :lifthrasiir_!~lifthrasi@ec2-52-79-98-81.ap-northeast-2.compute.amazonaws.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100205 208773 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100205 208795 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-zjoagjvsfoxwfeot QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587100522 3090 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 3189 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 3198 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 3205 :MDude!~MDude@74.5.130.30 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 3212 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 3219 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-007-125-076.178.007.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 3226 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 3232 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 3239 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 3247 :rodgort!~rodgort@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 3253 :iczero!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 3260 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 3267 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 3273 :stux!stux2@grid9.quadspeedi.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 3280 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 3286 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 3309 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 3318 :shinh!~i@129.EC0234U.cyberhome.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 3325 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 3331 :ocharles!sid30093@musicbrainz/user/ocharles JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 3363 :xavo[m]!undersco1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-wgwnxhhmtkkndjuy JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 3370 :xylochoron[m]!xylochoron@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-vlvkegcgsdxmwhtq JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 3377 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fxmbgdseweobncjt JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 3384 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-xzyaisbqzvkskrdj JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 3391 :Cale!~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 3398 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 3405 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 3411 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 3418 :jix!~jix@static.71.5.69.159.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 3424 :ornxka!~ornxka@unaffiliated/ornx JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 3431 :diginet!~diginet@107.170.146.29 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 3438 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-146-112-4.natnow.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 3444 :mniip!mniip@freenode/staff/mniip JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 3452 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 3464 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 3471 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 41222 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 41271 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 41303 :probablymoony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 41315 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 41348 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 41361 :APic!apic@apic.name JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 41372 :diverger!~div@193.9.112.184 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 41405 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 41432 :mra90!Martin@nat/intel/x-cfjznfrnqplsfvwi JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 41443 :laerling!~lsf@unaffiliated/laerling JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 41467 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 41493 :glowcoil!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vxsogqhlxlhjgaib JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 41504 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 41531 :dnm_!sid401311@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jitcmpemkqzepcqv JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 41542 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 41566 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-b0486e-15.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 41595 :trn!jhj@prone.ws JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 41606 :aji!~alex@unaffiliated/aji JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 41617 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 41628 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-234-164-48.compute-1.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 41654 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 41679 :nchambers!uplime@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 41705 :BWBellairs!~bwbellair@hellomouse/dev/bwbellairs JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 41716 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 41739 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@sorunome.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 41763 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 41788 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 41799 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 41824 :Deewiant!~deewiant@de1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 41835 :LBPHacker!lbphacker@trigraph.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 41863 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uokwdxpbfutetegr JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 41874 :^[_!sid43445@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/sixth/zgrep JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 41885 :dog_star!sid310875@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bkmsprfnywrkykzt JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 41895 :shig!~davidb@inara.oztechninja.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 41921 :catern!~catern@catern.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 41932 :howlands_!gilesgate@sdf-eu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 41959 :haavard!root@haavard.me JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 41970 :relrod!~relrod@redhat/relrod JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 41981 :lifthrasiir_!~lifthrasi@ec2-52-79-98-81.ap-northeast-2.compute.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 79236 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 79283 :lynn_!sid154965@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qhrpzgxcylkpquuh JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 79317 :ProofTechnique!sid79547@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ghyzuqdvajivhjps JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 79352 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-zjoagjvsfoxwfeot JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 79365 :vertrex!~vertrex@unaffiliated/vertrex JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 79377 :interruptinuse!~interrupt@girl.mrtheplague.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 79388 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 79400 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 79412 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 79448 :myndzi!myndzi@tetrisguide.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 79461 :sparr!~sparr@pdpc/supporter/active/sparr JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 79488 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 79514 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie JOIN :#esoteric < 1587100522 79542 :Banana51!~user@unaffiliated/banana51 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587103483 75723 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587103498 425780 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1587106126 818463 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1587106304 701635 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1587107391 372708 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1587107413 420226 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1587107548 984385 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1587108061 394099 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric > 1587108173 896927 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Frogstair 5* 10New user account < 1587108342 195554 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Client Quit > 1587108455 968449 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71158&oldid=71124 5* 03Frogstair 5* (+196) 10/* Introductions */ > 1587108738 213737 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Frogstair14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71159 5* 03Frogstair 5* (+2604) 10Created page with "frog stair ,,//,,*(/,,/(*,,//,,/(*,,//,,*(/,,//,,*(/,,/(*,,//,,/(*,,//,,*(/,,//,,*(/,,/(*,, ,,/(,,*(/,,/(*,,(/,,/(*,,//,,*@@%%%%@%*(/,,/(*,,(/,,/(*,,//,,*(/,,/(,,*(/,,/(*,,..." < 1587108794 700752 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric > 1587108795 263718 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Frogstair14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71160 5* 03Frogstair 5* (+4) 10Created page with "dont" > 1587109402 316552 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71161&oldid=71152 5* 03Frogstair 5* (+10) 10/* Non-alphabetic */ < 1587109743 495566 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I want to make a SVG file for use with Wikipedia or something like that, would it be suitable to use Ghostscript to produce a PDF and then use pdf2svg to convert it to SVG? < 1587110134 439389 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 JOIN :#esoteric > 1587112655 360250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[074RL14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71162 5* 03Frogstair 5* (+1146) 10Created page with "4RL (pronounced "for real") is an [[esoteric programming language]] created by [[User:Frogstair]] in April 2020, and is a breed of [[brainfuck]] The language can be compiled..." < 1587113698 447771 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1587113802 334794 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1587116757 722091 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587116802 806486 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1587116836 259576 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1587118289 847345 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: Yeah I know I'm lagging far behind your efforts. < 1587118488 189359 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should write a joint paper on this BB < 1587119303 699689 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1587119996 534339 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71163&oldid=71154 5* 03Ais523 5* (+658) 10/* Adding Underload numbers */ try to avoid making the page /too/ large < 1587120603 91164 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1587120646 323910 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587120660 873279 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm adding 23 new instructions to asm2bf < 1587120670 725352 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder when it'll be classified CISC < 1587120704 730273 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently it has around 50 < 1587120986 970651 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: it's not really just the number of instructions that matters there. MMIX has tons of instructions, but it's a RISC because they don't have random side effects, parameters, and encodings, wired in to try to improve code density or speed < 1587121013 307752 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, actually these instructions do improve density and speed < 1587121019 623207 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some of them are quite peculliar < 1587121237 43580 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously all this can change as you add extensions. ARM used to be a nice simple RISC cpu, but they kept adding all sorts of extensions to optimize it, until it became what you might regard a CISC < 1587121275 675834 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas x86 started out as CISC, but with 64-bit mode banning some of the more crazy instructions, and adding tons of vector instructions with nice simple regular behavior, it's getting closer and closer to a RISC < 1587121312 615070 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually nah < 1587121319 436575 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the total number of instructions is 69 < 1587121346 997402 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :off by 4 < 1587121767 274515 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587121994 262940 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm still looking for ideas of what kind of stuff pack into asm2bf < 1587121999 439173 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in terms of instructions < 1587122010 762196 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of floating point math (can microcode in brainfuck, no problem < 1587122062 957763 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: have you written an interpreter that directly runs the bfasm code, so that we can get just rid of the annoying brainfuck layer once and for all? < 1587122094 237564 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :theoretically, yes < 1587122100 161989 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's also great to mask errors in the to-brainfuck compilation, but we don't need that < 1587122137 904989 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the interpreter doesn't currently recognize 100% of the ISA as I'm still working on it < 1587122171 983541 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1587122178 536577 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could be useful for bfbot < 1587122190 446050 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1587122199 395814 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the source code's nost < 1587122201 608298 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lost < 1587122210 343499 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of hardware failure that I had < 1587122210 771469 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the new new bfbot < 1587122216 287446 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1587122217 835181 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's this one < 1587122238 705787 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started again from scratch < 1587122249 491927 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :extended the bfi to be able to print onto stderr using a custom instruction < 1587122256 53267 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stderr goes to shell, stdout goes to telnet < 1587122270 950626 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this way you can read files < 1587122277 386559 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and communicate with the IRC server < 1587122305 862654 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, we've got a B to asm2bf compiler my friend made out of boredom < 1587122313 183915 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, you're writing bfbot in brainfuck? < 1587122316 106100 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works quite well, but output quality is kinda garbage < 1587122316 538478 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1587122323 806045 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... < 1587122327 106672 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how will it run brainfuck then? < 1587122336 555933 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :interpreting brainfuck in brainfuck is hard < 1587122337 496585 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :write a brainfuck interpreter in brainfuck? < 1587122349 428578 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how will it run asmbf? < 1587122351 926868 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or utilize the shell < 1587122362 299883 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :call asm2bf, read the output < 1587122402 220083 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds a weirder idea than fungot being written in befunge, or NotJack's J bot being written in J < 1587122402 415049 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: i haven't really taken a tern for the worst < 1587122410 500151 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1587122412 131167 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1587122428 138179 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hey, it's esolangs, the weirder the better < 1587122429 382499 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :J has easy access to evaluate J code, and fungot doesn't try to evaluate befunge < 1587122429 587052 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: if so, you're saying ' worse is better"? i think i'll have to think about < 1587122441 155717 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ see < 1587122457 738776 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1587122472 546375 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :love markov chains of fungot < 1587122472 749918 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: am not. :) i'm in soft eng" that's called " bad coding" < 1587122579 115546 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I thought about a shell based on asm2bf < 1587122611 814471 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that'd be annoying to use as hell < 1587123305 698925 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1587123902 910971 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587124023 711562 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1587124049 602114 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1587124529 475301 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1587124651 805094 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric > 1587124802 232530 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[074RL14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71164&oldid=71162 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+155) 10cats, style, & it's not just BF > 1587124852 906004 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[074RL14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71165&oldid=71164 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-38) 10 > 1587125291 547392 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FishScript14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71166&oldid=71133 5* 03Willicoder 5* (+12) 10Change link to my repo because I changes the name of the repo. < 1587125296 323384 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587125543 716640 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1587125872 395840 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Small14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71167&oldid=70989 5* 03Voltage2007 5* (+394) 10 < 1587126323 329024 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's actually a command to "evaluate" Befunge, but it just writes the line into the playfield and directs control flow there. It's an admin-only command for obvious reasons. And I don't think I've ever actually used it successfully. < 1587126398 905762 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's at least two Befunge-93 self-interpreters (with smaller-than-standard playfields, of course) though. < 1587126429 527342 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And https://esolangs.org/wiki/EsoInterpreters lists six for Brainfuck. < 1587126796 628109 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: makes sense < 1587126874 639864 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to be careful with admin-only commands. there was a very old bot written in perl that had both normal commands and admin-only commands, so it would accept admin-only commands from the person who ran the bot (unless I could guess their password), and some of the admin-only commands could eval, < 1587126894 881757 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then while reading the source, I noticed that one of the commands that obviously should have been admin-only wasn't marked admin only < 1587126907 96965 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I reported that so it got fixed > 1587127949 831654 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deadfish~14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71168&oldid=66659 5* 03Voltage2007 5* (+6) 10 < 1587128068 508980 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at my 6x6x6 Rubik's cube ;-) http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/6x6.jpg > 1587128555 873218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Sunny morning14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71169&oldid=69999 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (-30) 10/* References */ < 1587128793 230178 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1587129056 587385 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck extensions14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71170&oldid=69812 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+9) 10 > 1587129146 130983 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FishScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71171&oldid=71166 5* 03Willicoder 5* (+884) 10 > 1587129173 167243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FishScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71172&oldid=71171 5* 03Willicoder 5* (-12) 10/* Small Hello World */ < 1587129362 992440 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1587129426 698148 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric > 1587130301 908216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FishScript14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71173&oldid=71172 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+25) 10/* Interpreters */ > 1587130655 330999 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pxem14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71174&oldid=70532 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+30) 10/* Echo */ The original author seemed to have thought cat program is echo program. < 1587131643 467971 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.236.184 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587131925 460801 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.210.243 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587132029 435260 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.236.184 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds > 1587133302 279598 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Asm2bf14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71175&oldid=71126 5* 03Palaiologos 5* (+2626) 10conditional instructions > 1587133400 698471 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Asm2bf14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71176&oldid=71175 5* 03Palaiologos 5* (+502) 10B compiler < 1587133449 785037 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :>41KB, wow, that's a big article < 1587133463 729464 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think on somehow breaking it down, because currently it feels too big > 1587133518 216285 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Asm2bf14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71177&oldid=71176 5* 03Palaiologos 5* (+4) 10uh-oh, forgot about closing the tags < 1587133555 55354 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.19 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587133568 837805 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? timecube < 1587133572 310322 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :timecube? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1587133574 670049 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? time cube < 1587133576 62317 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :EARTH HAS 4 CORNER SIMULTANEOUS 4-DAY TIME CUBE IN ONLY 24 HOUR ROTATION. 4 CORNER DAYS, CUBES 4 QUAD EARTH. Bible A Lie & Word Is Lies. Navel Connects 4 Corner 4s. God Is Born Of A Mother - She Left Belly B. Signature. Your dirty lying teachers use only the midnight to midnight 1 day (ignoring 3 other days) Time to not foul (already wrong) bible time. Lie that corrupts earth you educated stupid fools. < 1587133594 104599 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many springs and summers are there? < 1587133684 597581 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this < 1587133685 418171 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.210.243 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1587133758 186498 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? lambda cube < 1587133759 558501 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda cube? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1587133766 822454 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: look for time cube on wikipedia if you really want to know < 1587133773 663113 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an infamous website that is now defunct < 1587133789 147180 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's much much longer than what fits into two wisdom entries, so these are just samples < 1587133792 431555 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? gene ray < 1587133793 828662 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dr Gene Ray is the Greatest Philosopher, and is the Greatest Mathematician. Cubic Harmonics. Only Cubic Harmonics can save humanity. Cubic Harmonics will pacify all religions. 96-hour Cubic Day debunks 1-day unnatural god. 96-hour day willdisprove disunity god. Academians are teaching - pseudocience. Worshipping a Word God will destroy the USA. < 1587133800 841312 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the other wisdom that samples from i < 1587133806 833861 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmao, okay < 1587133931 648604 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: JOIN :#esoteric < 1587135104 528819 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1200 < 1587135105 444480 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1200: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas < 1587135157 6412 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`thanks HackEso < 1587135157 754699 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, HackEso. ThackEso. < 1587136383 1881 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a method for drawing a sierpinski triangle without bitops that won't take a lot of space? < 1587136417 248645 :SoniEx2!~quassel@unaffiliated/soniex2 NICK :Soni < 1587136528 217104 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: I'm not sure your question is well-defined. care to elaborate? < 1587136551 858135 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a common method for drawing a sierpinski triangle that utilizes bitand (&) < 1587136564 910294 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been wondering is there any other algorithm that would utilize just basic arithmetic < 1587136571 577997 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think I may go with recursive approach < 1587137322 775058 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1587138190 266052 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on how you define space, how you want the output to look like, etc < 1587138219 472381 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, it has a very simple description as a Lindenmeyer system < 1587138224 217765 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lindenmayer* apparently < 1587138251 596748 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L-system#Example_5:_Sierpinski_triangle < 1587138382 559099 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: oh, another classic is deriving it from Pascal's triangle < 1587138586 252226 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a neat algorithm already < 1587138588 754992 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm implementing it < 1587138695 273383 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ binview (1,1,~ 2| }:+}.)^:(<16) 1 < 1587138695 995312 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: ⣗⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ < 1587138696 33399 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: ⣗⣄⣗⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ < 1587138696 33456 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: ⣗⣄⠀⠀⣗⣄⠀⠀ < 1587138696 33473 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: ⣗⣄⣗⣄⣗⣄⣗⣄ < 1587138699 210897 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :whee < 1587138739 412628 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1587138997 264770 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaning left < 1587138998 436994 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ (~:_1&|.)^:(<20) 0=i.20 NB. FireFly: or like this < 1587138999 102811 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 < 1587138999 258399 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 < 1587138999 258446 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 < 1587138999 258454 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 < 1587138999 258461 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 < 1587138999 296416 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 < 1587138999 334706 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 < 1587139000 232968 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 < 1587139000 347023 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: ... < 1587139356 801852 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [[if (x .&. (y-x)) == 0 then 'x' else ' ' | x <- [0..y]] | y <- [0..]] < 1587139359 202400 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["x","xx","x x","xxxx","x x","xx xx","x x x x","xxxxxxxx","x x","xx... < 1587139394 626720 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders which bit trick b_jonas' code uses < 1587140156 795107 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: well yeah, fair, you can express it that way too < 1587140191 282623 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should've used ~: instead of (2|+) > 1587140851 92057 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minimal operation language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71178&oldid=70677 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+45) 10Dead link < 1587141043 591333 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am way too confused about .&. < 1587141119 57062 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ (,.&0,,.~)^:4,1 NB. FireFly: or you could use this comma-heavy thing < 1587141119 721396 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 < 1587141119 805272 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 < 1587141119 843298 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 < 1587141119 843327 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 < 1587141119 843335 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 < 1587141120 233421 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 < 1587141120 331699 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 < 1587141121 317685 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 < 1587141121 317737 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: ... < 1587141196 823034 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there an unicode character corresponding to a printable ASCII sequence? < 1587141233 550139 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ ([:{&' .'':'_2:#.&.|:\0&<) (,.&0,,.~)^:4,1 < 1587141234 231374 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: :. < 1587141234 359243 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: :.:. < 1587141234 359291 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: :. :. < 1587141234 359301 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: :.:.:.:. < 1587141234 359309 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: :. :. < 1587141234 426472 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: :.:. :.:. < 1587141234 426522 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: :. :. :. :. < 1587141235 250276 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: :.:.:.:.:.:.:.:. < 1587141249 151805 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: I don't understand your question < 1587141263 790569 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so imagine you have an unicode character < 1587141268 310365 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the unicode character has it's codepoint < 1587141277 62901 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, representation in form of a sequence of bytes < 1587141296 98493 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, ▲, corresponds to E2 96 B2 < 1587141310 103847 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ (,.&' ',,.~)^:4,:':.' NB. perhaps better < 1587141310 860361 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: :. < 1587141310 860412 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: :.:. < 1587141310 860421 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: :. :. < 1587141311 641159 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: :.:.:.:. < 1587141315 722577 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: :. :. < 1587141319 637965 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: :.:. :.:. < 1587141319 794306 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: :. :. :. :. < 1587141323 676080 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: :.:.:.:.:.:.:.:. < 1587141323 715731 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: ... < 1587141335 782533 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: do you mean UTF-8 < 1587141339 251173 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly < 1587141346 911492 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, I want to find an unicode character, whose codepoint has it's code point, that when interpreted as ASCII will be printable < 1587141359 487219 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF-8 is designed to not overlap with ASCII < 1587141366 314236 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err < 1587141376 394695 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, bad news < 1587141378 754231 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: how about 'b' < 1587141384 247380 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It overlaps with ASCII, but it maps ASCII to the first 128 Unicdoe points. < 1587141411 936634 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b is fine, but it's too small < 1587141418 697779 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :all ASCII characters when encoded in UTF-8 are printable (as themselves) < 1587141422 96838 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it extends ASCII. < 1587141423 735262 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's codepoint value is too small < 1587141430 56899 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm confused too.. < 1587141445 407581 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: The answer is no. < 1587141446 911581 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: why is disambiguity bad? < 1587141448 294488 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so all in all, there's no printable ASCII sequence that's a single valid codepoint for UTF8? < 1587141450 561815 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, er, all *printable* ASCII characters specifically :p) < 1587141463 570320 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: no because ascii is a subset of utf-8 < 1587141466 194657 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a UTF-7 though. No clue how it works. < 1587141469 961073 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright < 1587141472 978704 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I wanted to know < 1587141474 531622 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1587141492 65157 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still don't get why this should be bad < 1587141497 687432 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is actually very good < 1587141505 515886 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: wait, there is? I know of UTF-9 and UTF-18, don't remember if I've seen UTF-7... < 1587141532 877673 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm.. email thing < 1587141575 403783 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is good < 1587141582 999467 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm trying to golf a certain thing :P < 1587141594 361534 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: Yeah by the looks of it it's basically unused. < 1587141617 225973 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: use a different ball. < 1587141635 350112 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION . o O ( different (type)ball ) < 1587141656 290028 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: *nod*, which makes for fun tech history trivia though :p < 1587141699 674901 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF-7 was probably designed so that you can punch unicode onto a 7-row paper tape in a way that's reasonably transparent, i.e. you can still read and write most of the ASCII subset straightforwardly < 1587141712 732837 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and other non-8-bit-clean transport methods < 1587141717 739813 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 bit serial lines < 1587141728 892033 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes, specifically SMTP apparently < 1587141737 750273 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which I didn't realise apparently wasn't guaranteed to be 8-bit clean) < 1587141769 674048 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: Too modern. Stuff like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delay_line_memory is much more interesting :) < 1587141838 498700 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1587141840 762164 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: in theory you could use it in MIME email headers and bodies, but I think nobody uses UTF-7 there, < 1587141863 86486 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I think it's just quoted-printable in practice.. < 1587141866 507766 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead people use two other encoding methods: the quoted-printable thing that puts two hexits after an equals sign, and, in bodies only, some sort of base-64 encoding < 1587141882 557859 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nod* < 1587141917 693552 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The worst encoding is probably the IDN one. < 1587141931 604511 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :(turns out, reading the Wikipedia article, that UTF-7 actually essentially base64's individual codepoints outside a specific set (and annotates the base64'd part with delimiters)) < 1587141932 57261 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For Unicode) < 1587141949 859951 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :IDN as in punycode? < 1587141976 62487 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's.. certainly a fascinating way to encode non-ASCII codepoints < 1587142056 977929 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, Punycode. Yes, indeed. < 1587143491 674669 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIL apple released a pair of tyres / wheels for Mac Pro for $700 < 1587143505 523188 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :allowing transition from Mac Pro to a $10k racecar < 1587143854 342330 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1587146644 988091 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I downloaded the new rules for Magic: the Gathering. < 1587146663 725697 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1587147378 505628 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* 10moved [[02Emotebatch10]] to [[EmoteBatch]]: fix capitalization > 1587147495 776234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71181&oldid=71150 5* 03Hdjensofjfnen 5* (-2) 10/* Metatape */ < 1587147523 580352 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1587148385 891409 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:81e2:898b:9ae2:f5bf JOIN :#esoteric > 1587148421 382885 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minimal operation language14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71182&oldid=71178 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-32) 10/* Resources */ template add > 1587148495 682753 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71183&oldid=71163 5* 03CatIsFluffy 5* (+100) 10/* Adding Underload numbers */ > 1587148651 182847 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Underload/Numbers14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71184&oldid=71153 5* 03CatIsFluffy 5* (+20739) 10Even more numbers > 1587148857 589375 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07I like frog14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71185&oldid=71157 5* 03Apollyon094 5* (+328) 10 > 1587148943 966011 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07I like frog14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71186&oldid=71185 5* 03Apollyon094 5* (+56) 10 > 1587149034 863005 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07I like frog14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71187&oldid=71186 5* 03Apollyon094 5* (+62) 10 > 1587149124 452573 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07I like frog14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71188&oldid=71187 5* 03Apollyon094 5* (-76) 10 < 1587149463 700181 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1587150297 455518 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1587150305 183312 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "GODSPEED" in the newest Scrabble dictionary? It is a word my opponent once wanted to play, although it isn't in the dictionary we were using (the third edition), so it isn't allowed. < 1587150515 297485 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587150622 367324 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.8 < 1587150638 991456 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric > 1587151563 399631 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71189&oldid=71136 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-1) 10/* Misc */ < 1587153975 794778 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1587155231 874950 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Procedure14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71190&oldid=70553 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1936) 10Documentation + SeeAlso > 1587155304 885511 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71191&oldid=71161 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+11) 10/* P */ add pure > 1587155502 411442 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Procedure14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71192&oldid=71190 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+55) 10 > 1587155532 189375 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Procedure14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71193&oldid=71192 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+19) 10 < 1587156512 64160 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1587156913 243585 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nairb14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71194&oldid=63954 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+18) 10 < 1587158574 293547 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1587158903 711944 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1587158960 772128 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1587159618 899258 :nchambers!uplime@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.7.5 - https://znc.in < 1587159637 850036 :nchambers!uplime@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers JOIN :#esoteric < 1587160099 493526 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587160112 644467 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1587160266 620447 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1587160933 779564 :LBPHacker!lbphacker@trigraph.net PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1587160982 2940 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.19 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1587162215 349179 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1587162316 87516 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1587162881 858227 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:81e2:898b:9ae2:f5bf QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1587163114 115735 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: just completed all TODOs for 35. last one was toughest:) < 1587163143 21402 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean the (\1 1) (\1 (\\1 (2 1)) 1) one < 1587163170 647414 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :should now be able to add BB(35) to OEIS with some confidence < 1587163287 17037 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's run BB 36 and see where it crashes < 1587163507 391803 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :strangely it seems to hang without increasing memuse < 1587164117 938647 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's on term (\1 1) (\1 (1 (\\2 (2 1)))) < 1587164136 497588 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, if i'm correct is 2^256 :-( < 1587166317 261548 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1587169632 74596 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587169741 397130 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1587170416 470272 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1587170465 107055 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1587173297 833095 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587174891 997012 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1587175442 350848 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1587175917 346957 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made this programming language http://sprunge.us/5jA9Q3 it isn't completed yet, though. Please make a comment of it < 1587176074 301727 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1587176641 307456 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1587176810 851860 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1587177131 594635 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FishScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71195&oldid=71173 5* 03Watermelon3D 5* (-4865) 10 < 1587179937 858563 :Elderberry!bc4a4017@188.74.64.23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587179973 955995 :Elderberry!bc4a4017@188.74.64.23 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone online? < 1587180267 371289 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am on, today. < 1587180416 833199 :Elderberry!bc4a4017@188.74.64.23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1587180937 470148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FishScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71196&oldid=71195 5* 03Watermelon3D 5* (-589) 10/* Commands */ < 1587183255 795069 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net PART :#esoteric < 1587184769 823584 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the reason sometimes my computer uses more RAM that it should is something to do with graphics, since it increases when loading a PDF even after the program to view the PDF is terminated. < 1587185141 160027 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@sorunome.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing I've seen a couple times is memory fragmentation in graphics areas < 1587185184 760508 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@sorunome.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not graphics, per se, but X, which is in charge of graphics < 1587185303 151808 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Terminating and restarting X did not seem to help the last time I tried that < 1587187793 201580 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like the common convention of writing the stack effect used in PostScript, and I think the convention of Forth is better, so I use the Forth convention even when writing programs in PostScript, too. < 1587190968 367488 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:68a3:bf76:ce6b:b0b4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587193568 749922 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish simpler languages like Forth had become mainstream vs. what we have now. < 1587193578 470609 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :have had trouble even picking a language to write services in. < 1587194912 102745 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could write a program in Forth, if you want to do, I think. < 1587195348 187523 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Forth is a very odd word processor. < 1587195984 781477 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: wow, was able to complete BB(36) search! < 1587196004 774236 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(36,1441774,(\1 1) (\1 (\\2 (2 1)) 1)) < 1587196035 934700 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that Church 2^256 is BB(36) < 1587196082 209863 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming all TODOs are loops > 1587198051 123088 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:LyricLy14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71197&oldid=52451 5* 03LyricLy 5* (-1) 10 < 1587200042 852046 :probablymoony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony NICK :noomy < 1587200931 988834 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1587201304 921126 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BB 37 run doesn't do so well, seems to explode in mem even without troublesome terms < 1587201336 40817 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :better work on proving BB(36) < 1587202113 972935 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf JOIN :#esoteric < 1587202463 830603 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1587203201 847469 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587203347 331079 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1587203347 419424 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1587204676 290816 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1587205284 592332 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1587205310 96112 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1587205566 463213 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.19 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587205857 705595 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1587208102 237078 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric > 1587208349 327337 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Seclusion14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71198&oldid=67003 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (-84) 10Remove references template < 1587209618 946896 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric > 1587210389 996552 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:2/9 of an esolang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71199&oldid=68664 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+689) 10 > 1587210945 493305 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[072/9 of an esolang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71200&oldid=66203 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+200) 10 < 1587212033 540745 :Soni!~quassel@unaffiliated/soniex2 QUIT :Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere. < 1587212835 219100 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? thunk < 1587212837 304229 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :thunk? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ > 1587213032 605915 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07///14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71201&oldid=69533 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+17) 10/* Perl interpreter */ nowiki-tagged two quotation marks to prevent them from getting treated as beginning of italic. < 1587213172 971268 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1587213322 585054 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 JOIN :#esoteric > 1587215008 579366 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:FishScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71202&oldid=71129 5* 03Willicoder 5* (+196) 10 < 1587215177 449251 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587215194 3632 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what has happened to gitlogger < 1587215211 534456 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it died 2020-04-14 04:29:14 < 1587215249 301527 :gitlogger!~gitlogger@206.ip-51-91-102.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1587215253 375726 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1587215261 658176 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been offline for four days, no idea what has happened < 1587215303 293381 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1587217043 699916 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1587217655 699105 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1587219184 473233 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just realized that 0^0 = 1 also holds in Church numerals < 1587219259 696546 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: once upon a time, the Event happened. A few it was noticed by, and by none was it been known that the noble gitlogger had been knocked out flat by it, and that it was its sole effect < 1587219263 389016 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: wow < 1587219288 335844 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv, lol < 1587219511 503610 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> gitlogger has quit (*.net *.split). < 1587219513 592212 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : :1:36: error: < 1587219513 735674 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets) < 1587219617 69430 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1587220924 534719 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1587222159 434802 :batman_nair!~batman_na@103.228.221.83 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587222223 91600 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1587222244 481375 :batman_nair!~batman_na@103.228.221.83 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587222291 846283 :batman_nair!~batman_na@103.228.221.83 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587222339 354266 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:68a3:bf76:ce6b:b0b4 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1587222354 128570 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587222355 599474 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:68a3:bf76:ce6b:b0b4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587222494 577263 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:68a3:bf76:ce6b:b0b4 QUIT :Client Quit < 1587223236 301806 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@82.27.195.88 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587223282 74519 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587223934 335924 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@82.27.195.88 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1587223968 374048 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@82.27.195.88 JOIN :#esoteric > 1587225496 381741 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FishScript14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71203&oldid=71196 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+591) 10/* Commands */ > 1587225625 190234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FishScript14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71204&oldid=71203 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+47) 10/* Commands */ Fixed commands (nowiki tag) > 1587225764 71368 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:FishScript14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71205&oldid=71202 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+252) 10 < 1587225869 742699 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I managed to squash the sierpinski program and hunt down some bugs < 1587225885 732435 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently it's down to 219 bytes, relying on some compiler voodoo < 1587225891 896509 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@a/clrr2/@b/pshr1/movr4,r2/@c/movr5,r1/modr5,2/movr6,r4/modr6,2/mulr5,r6/cger5,1/cmor5,1/cjn%d/asrr1/asrr4/jnzr1,%c/jnzr4,%c/clrr3/@d/cger3,1/movr3,42/cmor3,32/outr3/popr1/incr2/cger2,64/cjz%b/out10/incr1/cger1,64/cjz%a < 1587225892 182109 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list > 1587226354 481563 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Strvar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71206&oldid=71149 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+80) 10/* Syntax */ > 1587226389 721497 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Strvar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71207&oldid=71206 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-35) 10/* Truth-machine */ > 1587226853 921279 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07HGFTSNOA14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71208&oldid=70472 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+9) 10/* Either */ > 1587227093 212915 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Asm2bf14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71209&oldid=71177 5* 03Palaiologos 5* (+202) 10v1.3.6 release notes > 1587227494 75973 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Classical CT14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71210&oldid=55693 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+17) 10fix your assignment > 1587227516 436798 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Classical CT14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71211&oldid=71210 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+12) 10 > 1587227843 100288 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Asm2bf14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71212&oldid=71209 5* 03Palaiologos 5* (+14) 10lowercase template > 1587228021 130759 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Asm2bf14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71213&oldid=71212 5* 03Palaiologos 5* (+23) 10Add the low-level tag > 1587228937 638088 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minimal operation language14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71214&oldid=71182 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+26) 10/* Syntax */ < 1587229274 809803 :batman_nair!~batman_na@103.228.221.83 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1587229367 342298 :batman_nair!~batman_na@103.228.221.83 JOIN :#esoteric > 1587229500 214696 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FishScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71215&oldid=71204 5* 03Willicoder 5* (+9) 10 > 1587229914 393588 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07`14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71216&oldid=67531 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+3) 10/* Hello, world! */ fixed < 1587229969 867655 :Soni!~quassel@unaffiliated/soniex2 JOIN :#esoteric > 1587229980 767472 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07`14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71217&oldid=71216 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+14) 10fix headings < 1587230162 152643 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1587230423 808481 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1587230650 700382 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1587230687 326699 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1587230955 355091 :batman_nair!~batman_na@103.228.221.83 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1587231779 954512 :batman_nair!~batman_na@2401:4900:33b4:b13a:d065:ca3e:aa1e:2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587232118 535475 :batman_nair!~batman_na@2401:4900:33b4:b13a:d065:ca3e:aa1e:2 QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1587233422 716506 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Cmt14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71218 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+103) 10Created page with "

ABCDEFG

Hello, World!

==Hello, World!== " > 1587233447 115183 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Cmt14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71219&oldid=71218 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10PythonshellDebugwindow changed the content model of the page [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Cmt]] from "wikitext" to "plain text" > 1587233447 125534 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/contentmodel14]]4 change10 02 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* 10PythonshellDebugwindow changed the content model of the page [[02User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Cmt10]] from "wikitext" to "plain text" > 1587233478 459571 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Cmt14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71220&oldid=71219 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-59) 10 > 1587233488 152286 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Cmt14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71221&oldid=71220 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+4) 10PythonshellDebugwindow changed the content model of the page [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Cmt]] from "plain text" to "JSON" > 1587233488 162090 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/contentmodel14]]4 change10 02 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* 10PythonshellDebugwindow changed the content model of the page [[02User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Cmt10]] from "plain text" to "JSON" > 1587233558 887042 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Cmt14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71222&oldid=71221 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+90) 10 > 1587233676 80970 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Test14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71223&oldid=71135 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+59) 10 > 1587233709 572105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Strvar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71224&oldid=71207 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+30) 10 > 1587234112 625840 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Strvar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71225&oldid=71224 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+152) 10/* Interpreter test cases */ < 1587234143 713334 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1587234849 728858 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1587235468 829729 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Quit: quit < 1587236542 295803 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1587237781 821373 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1587237817 90643 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley JOIN :#esoteric < 1587239075 598671 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The result of mounting a file system nosuid varies across Linux kernel versions: some will refuse execution of set-user-ID and set-group-ID executables when this would give the user powers she did not have already (and return EPERM), some will just ignore the set-user-ID and set-group-ID bits and exec() successfully." < 1587239149 429340 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that if the user does not have permission to read the file, and nosuid is used, then executing files with set-user-ID and set-group-ID should also be prohibited. < 1587239257 788688 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, they didn't tell you what version of Linux will have what effect. < 1587239308 392779 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: there is a mount flag noexec though if you want to just deny executing anything on the fs < 1587239513 106611 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that makes sense, although it should also make sense to me that if it is with nosuid even though the set-user-ID and set-group-ID bits are set, then it should also refuse execution if the user does not have permission to read the file, unless those bits would correspond to the current user and group anyways, in which case it would still be allowed. Since, otherwise, it would allow the user to do something which is otherwise prohibi < 1587239727 794052 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sure, but we can't change that in old kernel versions so you have to know about the behavior < 1587239878 694531 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, althought hey should mention what versions, rather than merely saying it varies across Linux kernel versions. < 1587240399 477558 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ (,.&' ',,.~)^:4,:':.' < 1587240400 87811 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :spruit11: :. < 1587240400 200161 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :spruit11: :.:. < 1587240400 241370 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :spruit11: :. :. < 1587240400 241398 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :spruit11: :.:.:.:. < 1587240400 241405 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :spruit11: :. :. < 1587240400 343877 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :spruit11: :.:. :.:. < 1587240400 343903 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :spruit11: :. :. :. :. < 1587240401 278205 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :spruit11: :.:.:.:.:.:.:.:. < 1587240401 316218 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :spruit11: ... < 1587240430 659806 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ (,.&' ',,.~)^:5,:':.' < 1587240431 316248 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :spruit11: :. < 1587240431 316295 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :spruit11: :.:. < 1587240431 316305 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :spruit11: :. :. < 1587240431 316314 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :spruit11: :.:.:.:. < 1587240431 316322 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :spruit11: :. :. < 1587240432 337252 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :spruit11: :.:. :.:. < 1587240432 337316 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :spruit11: :. :. :. :. < 1587240433 233512 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :spruit11: :.:.:.:.:.:.:.:. < 1587240433 331381 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :spruit11: ... < 1587240981 556419 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ $ ,: ':.' < 1587240982 194429 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: 1 2 < 1587240987 693256 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right > 1587242416 691938 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Strvar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71226&oldid=71225 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+108) 10/* Resources */ < 1587245711 414882 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-zjoagjvsfoxwfeot QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1587246096 874437 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-lfureqhxxlxpmzkf JOIN :#esoteric < 1587246393 527842 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587246580 868676 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1587246586 216821 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1587253219 835352 :Umbrage!ca9a9b1a@202-154-155-26.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1587253227 317440 :Umbrage!ca9a9b1a@202-154-155-26.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello? < 1587253234 927100 :Umbrage!ca9a9b1a@202-154-155-26.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is my first time here. < 1587253268 870631 :Umbrage!ca9a9b1a@202-154-155-26.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1587253299 675423 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, what is it you wanted, then? < 1587253322 475535 :Umbrage!ca9a9b1a@202-154-155-26.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I came here to see if anybody wanted to discuss esolangs. < 1587253342 79179 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, do you have specific questions or other comments about it? < 1587253365 564770 :Umbrage!ca9a9b1a@202-154-155-26.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm developing an esolang. < 1587253376 466636 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1587253381 391584 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's your main source of inspiration? < 1587253392 450511 :Umbrage!ca9a9b1a@202-154-155-26.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cellular automata. < 1587253431 659603 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have any further details? < 1587253440 774478 :Umbrage!ca9a9b1a@202-154-155-26.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I do. < 1587253446 981425 :Umbrage!ca9a9b1a@202-154-155-26.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :The compiler is finished. < 1587253482 502885 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1587253516 264743 :Umbrage!ca9a9b1a@202-154-155-26.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's the pastebin of the compilation if you are interested: < 1587253520 920076 :Umbrage!ca9a9b1a@202-154-155-26.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://pastebin.com/Nc8NGSbK < 1587253594 809588 :Umbrage!ca9a9b1a@202-154-155-26.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you want to hear more? < 1587253634 266248 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, OK < 1587253755 239972 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@82.27.195.88 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1587253830 545144 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome Umbrage < 1587253832 694093 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Umbrage: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) < 1587253998 425462 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.19 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1587254160 939619 :Umbrage!ca9a9b1a@202-154-155-26.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, here we go. < 1587254176 420602 :Umbrage!ca9a9b1a@202-154-155-26.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :So basically, the code starts out disguised as brainFuck < 1587254181 342886 :Umbrage!ca9a9b1a@202-154-155-26.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not brainfuck though < 1587254192 489133 :Umbrage!ca9a9b1a@202-154-155-26.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's really binary. < 1587254215 913517 :Umbrage!ca9a9b1a@202-154-155-26.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if the program was ][, in binary it would be 100101 < 1587254249 468368 :Umbrage!ca9a9b1a@202-154-155-26.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, I run it though an elementary cellular automata with rule 90 (A XOR C) < 1587254298 489385 :Umbrage!ca9a9b1a@202-154-155-26.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the XOR operation accesses a cell with a value below 0, it returns a truthy value. < 1587254328 480187 :Umbrage!ca9a9b1a@202-154-155-26.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the XOR operation accesses a cell with a value greater than or equal to the number of cells, it returns a falsy value. < 1587254379 237741 :Umbrage!ca9a9b1a@202-154-155-26.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :After an equal number of iterations of the elementary cellular automata to the number of bits in the binary, it stops, and saves the binary. < 1587254388 887782 :Umbrage!ca9a9b1a@202-154-155-26.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, it converts it to code and runs it. < 1587254391 934904 :Umbrage!ca9a9b1a@202-154-155-26.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simple. < 1587254435 392260 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1587254449 55514 :Umbrage!ca9a9b1a@202-154-155-26.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :O.K. < 1587254483 455812 :Umbrage!ca9a9b1a@202-154-155-26.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :For simplicity, XOR is [ A NAND ( A NAND B ) ] NAND < 1587254493 368410 :Umbrage!ca9a9b1a@202-154-155-26.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :NAND logic and all that. < 1587254506 450523 :Umbrage!ca9a9b1a@202-154-155-26.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's turing complete. < 1587254527 563961 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-lfureqhxxlxpmzkf QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1587254537 977198 :Umbrage!ca9a9b1a@202-154-155-26.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can prove turing completeness for half of all computable problems, but I don't have a proof of the others. < 1587254567 349758 :Umbrage!ca9a9b1a@202-154-155-26.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, problems with odd numbers of instructions are the issue. < 1587254574 669556 :Umbrage!ca9a9b1a@202-154-155-26.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any ideas on how to prove it? < 1587254644 641219 :Umbrage!ca9a9b1a@202-154-155-26.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587255538 218269 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-dwywmxfdvivmzkev JOIN :#esoteric < 1587258265 793437 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-dwywmxfdvivmzkev QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1587258647 924129 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-gaqpstbjbamwsosv JOIN :#esoteric < 1587259010 111845 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-gaqpstbjbamwsosv QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587259355 948407 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-phsdpxjhezmvazjv JOIN :#esoteric < 1587261674 881372 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@82.27.195.88 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587262546 813685 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587263439 519119 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1587263470 231660 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587264672 74980 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is the Adobe font metric format not like a PostScript format? I think the TeX font format is better. Some people say that METAFONT doesn't do outline fonts or hinting, but actually it does both. The mainly problem with TeX fornat is the limits, and the kerning/ligature programs can't look ahead more than one character, but the Adobe format seems to be similarly limited from what I can see. < 1587264733 36201 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1587265522 897270 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@82.27.195.88 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1587265773 87608 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:91cd:1330:4171:a115 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587270530 41049 :MDude!~MDude@74.5.130.30 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1587272333 87724 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the Magic: the Gathering major template for TeXnicard so far: http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/texnicard.ui/dir?ci=tip&name=templates/magic Do you have any comments/complaints of it please? < 1587275534 875082 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:8d4e:d35a:4988:7053 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587275816 865859 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:8d4e:d35a:4988:7053 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1587276811 252703 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fxmbgdseweobncjt QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587276811 567147 :APic!apic@apic.name QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587276922 546571 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fxmbgdseweobncjt JOIN :#esoteric < 1587276922 546640 :APic!apic@apic.name JOIN :#esoteric < 1587277151 892181 :batman_nair!~batman_na@103.228.221.83 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587277271 327940 :batman_nair!~batman_na@103.228.221.83 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1587278509 307683 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71227&oldid=71181 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+112) 10/* Pxem */ < 1587278804 334628 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:8d4e:d35a:4988:7053 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587279073 316586 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:8d4e:d35a:4988:7053 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1587280227 984285 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:8d4e:d35a:4988:7053 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587281807 374566 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:41eb:e44f:bad7:2bce JOIN :#esoteric < 1587283382 494601 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric > 1587284741 867926 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Functasy14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71228&oldid=65706 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+7289) 10Add better highlighting < 1587285110 335887 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-phsdpxjhezmvazjv QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587285501 66212 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-ysbhnnoftdnfejso JOIN :#esoteric > 1587286875 507171 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ral14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71229&oldid=68419 5* 03Herman-L 5* (+1436) 10 < 1587286945 459755 :batman_nair!~batman_na@103.228.221.83 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587288523 285472 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-ysbhnnoftdnfejso QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1587288574 591375 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-vsgpvmyctwcawavq JOIN :#esoteric < 1587289050 232066 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-vsgpvmyctwcawavq QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1587289501 983994 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-mpapssivhpvmqamg JOIN :#esoteric < 1587289730 862755 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1587289829 435482 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric > 1587290427 37083 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Babalang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71230&oldid=71119 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+2291) 10Document GROUP > 1587290596 787911 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:RocketRace14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71231&oldid=71105 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+161) 10 < 1587290605 71004 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@82.27.195.88 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587290615 89162 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587291373 532177 :batman_nair!~batman_na@103.228.221.83 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1587291379 308738 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1587292307 376618 :mra90!Martin@nat/intel/x-cfjznfrnqplsfvwi PART #esoteric :"Leaving" > 1587293640 201428 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Babalang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71232&oldid=71230 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+4447) 10Document LEVEL and IMAGE > 1587293820 961967 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Babalang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71233&oldid=71232 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+225) 10Document EMPTY < 1587293873 349366 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah @xkcd. < 1587293904 756219 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( So... statistics is the art of refining garbage into something resembling reliable data. ) < 1587293907 760997 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? statistics < 1587293910 374632 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :statistics? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1587294081 627604 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1587294305 450211 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`lear Statistics is the art of refining garbage into data. < 1587294308 429505 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :lear? No such file or directory < 1587294308 595546 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Statistics is the art of refining garbage into data. < 1587294314 225802 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'statistic': Statistics is the art of refining garbage into data. < 1587294325 659890 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think it's passable. Feel free to improve.) < 1587294339 45648 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or would that be s/improve/refine/ ;-) < 1587294770 833880 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587295407 403856 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, what kind of video games do you play? < 1587295407 545347 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: are any of you have a copy? < 1587295414 964796 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: a copy of what? < 1587295415 136595 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: to, even. doesn't that count for something. < 1587295541 23933 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: it it's even it may be two. < 1587295541 111186 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: that's just wrong. < 1587295552 237405 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I'm sorry you think that. < 1587295552 379794 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: that only accepts a bf interpreter that takes i/ o < 1587295957 820776 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-mpapssivhpvmqamg QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds > 1587297674 200000 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Babalang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71234&oldid=71233 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+8156) 10Document the entire god damn runtime > 1587298055 527568 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Babalang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71235&oldid=71234 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+8199) 10Add examples (oh no......) > 1587298142 39657 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71236&oldid=71191 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+15) 10Add Babalang > 1587298335 112024 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Babalang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71237&oldid=71235 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+100) 10Categorize the page > 1587298372 221101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Babalang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71238&oldid=71237 5* 03RocketRace 5* (-8) 10Change wording in description > 1587298390 954294 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Babalang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71239&oldid=71238 5* 03RocketRace 5* (-4) 10Fix broken link > 1587299632 677536 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Cmt14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71240&oldid=71222 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+19) 10 < 1587301226 828381 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.19 JOIN :#esoteric > 1587302809 700346 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Welcome To...14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71241 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+2108) 10Work in progress < 1587303531 221771 :heroux!~heroux@507082E8.static.ziggozakelijk.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1587304417 807065 :heroux!~heroux@507082E8.static.ziggozakelijk.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1587304446 822263 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1587304451 15152 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-hrqklbeiopcoyhlk JOIN :#esoteric < 1587308283 836817 :Elderberry!bc4a4017@188.74.64.23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587308297 169639 :Elderberry!bc4a4017@188.74.64.23 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone online? < 1587308378 979026 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1587308395 119888 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1587310929 570648 :Cale!~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587311139 49432 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:d1e4:94fc:5e34:251a JOIN :#esoteric > 1587312274 70610 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Willicoder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71242&oldid=71148 5* 03Willicoder 5* (+265) 10 < 1587312484 120744 :Elderberry!bc4a4017@188.74.64.23 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1587312513 727076 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Functasy14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71243&oldid=71228 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+25) 10Fix typo in the code < 1587313633 332605 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1587314286 337816 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587315354 811165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587315381 393567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for everyone who doesn't know how UTF-7 works: all of ASCII encodes itself apart from the "+" character, which is encoded in UTF-7 as "+-" < 1587315388 715425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then sequences starting with + are used for non-ASCII characters < 1587315442 387769 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks for the Explanation! < 1587315443 923424 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not 100% sure on the encoding after the +, but if I'm remembering correctly, it's just UTF-16 written in hexadecimal < 1587315467 422191 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(terminated by - if the next character is a hexadecimal character or -, or with no explicit terminator if it's outside the hexadecimal range) < 1587315507 94814 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds really inefficient < 1587315517 339489 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's probably why it didn't catch on < 1587315557 515321 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main design goal appears to have been that a recipient could guess what it meant even if they didn't know the format, but that possibly isn't a useful design goal < 1587315613 826163 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1587315642 352697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah no, it isn't hexadecimal, it must be something more efficient than that < 1587315648 78553 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe base64'd utf-16? < 1587315663 835160 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just encoded a BOM into utf-7, it encoded as +/v8- < 1587315681 795832 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a base64 variant wedeged between + and -. < 1587315681 918126 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo '/v8' | base64 -d | od -t x1z < 1587315683 523220 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :base64: invalid input \ 0000000 fe ff >..< \ 0000002 < 1587315689 786201 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that looks like base64 to me < 1587315708 85506 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With the +- exception that maps to + as you said) < 1587315733 460648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :base64 is still a bit inefficient but it isn't as inefficient as base16 < 1587315775 223392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I wonder how many editors will interpret files as UTF-7 if they start +/v8 followed by - or a non-base-64 character < 1587315779 11667 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not many < 1587315809 700841 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Older versions of Internet Explorer can be tricked into interpreting the page as UTF-7. This can be used for a cross-site scripting attack as the < and > marks can be encoded as +ADw- and +AD4- in UTF-7, which most validators let through as simple text.' < 1587315822 542080 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it did have serious applications :P < 1587315838 382153 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, IE < 1587315848 153750 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to remember someone managing an XSS attack against the #esoteric logs < 1587315857 232464 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because IE was so permissive with encodings and MIME types < 1587315884 57776 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, it stacks on top of UTF-16. What a mess. < 1587315956 151248 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think that, in a way, it's a pity that UTF-1 didn't catch on < 1587315992 972159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rise of UTF-8 caused serious standards incompatibility problems, because UTF-8 uses C1 control codes for purposes other than their assigned meanings < 1587316048 610394 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, given that a C1 control code cannot appear in UTF-8 except immediately after a G1 character, this ambiguity should be fixable, but nobody I know of but me actually tries to fix it < 1587316159 23559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess part of the problem is that many of the C1 control codes are kind-of silly < 1587316312 636180 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:8d4e:d35a:4988:7053 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587317461 469051 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:69ba:5b75:fffe:29aa JOIN :#esoteric < 1587317607 531030 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1587317634 291863 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587317757 334745 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:69ba:5b75:fffe:29aa QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1587319295 780445 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh nice. that's like the XSS attacks when a browser guesses that something is HTML even though the HTTP response header Content-Type says text/plain < 1587319953 338034 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This encoding is a bit inefficient but it seems OK. < 1587319963 939732 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one that I don't get is Punycode. What's with that? It seems so complicated. < 1587320199 869152 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, Punycode is pretty awful. It seems to be designed for a language like German where words are mostly ASCII with maybe one or two non-ASCII characters. < 1587320249 881827 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Punycode is a simple and efficient transfer encoding syntax [...]" < 1587320250 462756 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But even so, it seems completely unreadable by humans. < 1587320279 328343 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :unreadable by humans, annoying to implement.. < 1587320287 742133 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't agree with this use of the word "simple". < 1587320332 907191 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` python -c 'print([s.encode("punycode") for s in ["aaa", "aaaλ", "aaaaλ", "aaaλbbb"]])' < 1587320333 867319 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​['aaa-', 'aaa-3ga8g', 'aaaa-tia7i', 'aaabbb-5la5m'] < 1587320351 918402 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :thunycode < 1587320365 384395 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Well one can kind of guess what "Mnchen-3ya" stands for. < 1587320381 753477 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not by knowing anything about the string "3ya"! < 1587320393 551357 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1587320396 860528 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome back btw. < 1587320410 61974 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might as well write "M�nchen". < 1587320433 524203 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Except it doesn't even tell you where the replacement character is.) < 1587320444 402048 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might not have to implement Punycode, at least. < 1587320454 890418 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm probably only sort of back? Hard to say. < 1587320469 686791 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you meant only sort of back? < 1587320472 671254 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only good thing about punycode is that you generally don't see it in encoded form. < 1587320547 229977 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about this Punycode replacement: You write "m-nchen--fc.com" for "münchen.com". < 1587320597 869773 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each code point above 127 and - gets encoded as a -, and then they're listen in order in hexadecimal after the -- < 1587320602 908520 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's probably not very good. < 1587320609 935810 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too verbose. < 1587320637 695852 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` python -c 'print([s.encode("punycode") for s in ["привет"]])' < 1587320638 346116 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It helps since you can write domain names purely in the ASCII form. You can disable non-ASCII domain names and then it will still work, and avoid the homoglyph problems and missing fonts and so on, too. < 1587320638 667918 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​['ae7lman4b1hcbbfh'] < 1587320711 230454 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I should think they should not have needed support for domain names containing any characters not already valid in domain names anyways < 1587320786 919432 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I guess there's one advantage to punycode that's easy to miss: some character set restrictions (like domain names not containing dots) can be enforced on punycode encoded strings without decoding them < 1587320807 93369 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But overall it doesn't seem very nice. < 1587320828 34440 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does that work? < 1587320901 809049 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the . would become part of the unencoded base character sequence before the final minus sign < 1587321008 3591 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This is assuming that base characters can't be encoded in the final encoded part, which I believe is the case.) < 1587321025 679780 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you mean it doesn't have an equivalent of overlong encodings of ASCII characters. < 1587321033 766577 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1587321042 259551 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:69ba:5b75:fffe:29aa JOIN :#esoteric < 1587321078 326261 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can still have encoding errors, right? Overlong encodings are already an error in UTF-8. < 1587321170 938580 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose so < 1587321174 845988 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:c48c:bbb2:381c:59f3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587321192 543552 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't know for sure. < 1587321208 659551 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not interested enough to check this in detail.) < 1587321257 462965 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm now reading about how Punycode actually works and it's kind of ridiculous. < 1587321270 855772 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` python -c 'print([s.encode("punycode") for s in ["München"]])' < 1587321271 903203 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​['Mnchen-bma9c'] < 1587321405 310805 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:69ba:5b75:fffe:29aa QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1587321442 71212 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is kind of neat if you like arithmetic coding. > 1587321446 679167 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Stub14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71244 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+26) 10Created page with "Leave this page as a stub." < 1587321487 642186 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's pretty efficient, at least. > 1587321511 902777 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71245&oldid=70695 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+228) 10 > 1587321804 109273 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71246&oldid=68569 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+153) 10/* External links */ < 1587321809 967982 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` python -c 'print([s.encode("punycode") for s in ["bücher"]])' < 1587321810 928561 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​['bcher-lka2c'] < 1587321825 812168 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What' going on there? Is it normalizing the Unicode into two characters before encoding or something? < 1587321844 278770 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` python -c 'print([s.encode("punycode") for s in ["bücher"]])' < 1587321846 921355 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​['bucher-xba75c'] > 1587321862 263473 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ellipsis14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71247&oldid=63411 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+76) 10cats < 1587321883 810511 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, of course it's not. < 1587321916 622826 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's a Python 2 thing, isn't it. < 1587321935 773232 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` py < 1587321936 627291 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/`: line 5: py: command not found < 1587321941 186285 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` python3 -c 'print([s.encode("punycode") for s in [u"bücher"]])' < 1587321942 178497 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[b'bcher-kva'] < 1587322030 317365 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` python3 -c 'print([s.encode("punycode") for s in ["ü"]])' < 1587322031 402942 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[b'tda'] < 1587322045 821257 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay I don’t get punycode at all < 1587322073 240001 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr (\x y -> x + y * 36) 0 $ map (\d -> fromJust $ elemIndex d (['a'..'z'] ++ ['0'..'9'])) "tda" < 1587322075 375759 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 127 < 1587322086 825003 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, and I think I first thought that’s the same as what urlencode does < 1587322121 656290 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` python3 -c 'print([s.encode("punycode") for s in ["ü"]])' < 1587322122 720182 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[b'u-ccb'] < 1587322158 285808 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> text [chr (127 + 125)] < 1587322160 651596 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : ü < 1587322189 568968 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so it seeingly first prefixes all ASCII codepoints from the string, if any, and then base-something-encoded string in full < 1587322201 566892 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I might have read about it already somewhere < 1587322250 265378 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` python3 -c 'print([s.encode("punycode") for s in ["aμb⚁cъd"]])' < 1587322251 298184 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[b'abcd-lnd86f056o'] < 1587322323 450732 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It encodes the code points and positions in base 36. < 1587322596 792226 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.19 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, now I have read a part of discussion above too :D should have done that earlier < 1587323219 810385 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also that's why we don't allow overlong encodings in UTF-8 < 1587324281 590658 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some applications, overlong encodings in UTF-8 is useful < 1587324341 28665 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exploiting buggy software, for instance? < 1587324577 921954 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe, although that isn't what I meant. < 1587325921 193141 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:c48c:bbb2:381c:59f3 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587326658 987356 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:c48c:bbb2:381c:59f3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587326775 736125 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal > 1587326862 950856 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Fish14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71248&oldid=59315 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+4) 10/* FizzBuzz */ add link > 1587326909 656765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Hakerh40014]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71249&oldid=70998 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+0) 10Reorder sections < 1587327077 73240 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I think encoding NUL as 00 in UTF-8 was a mistake < 1587327093 769081 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why? < 1587327102 276518 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would prefer an encoding of C0 80, to allow an "out-of-band" string termination character < 1587327132 333859 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In some applications you can use C0 80 to encode a null character in a UTF-8 string, to use 00 as a string termination. But in other cases you don't do that. < 1587327163 861859 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can always define a custom escaping transform, that should be independent of the encoding itself. you can even use 0x80 or 0x81 < 1587327206 774516 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't usually trust that strings that claim to be utf-8 are really valid utf-8 anyway, so I wouldn't trust that they don't have a 0x00 or 0x80 or whatever < 1587327218 436550 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I would also prefer that C1 control codes are encoded as themselves, but that's more controversial (the encoding is still self-synchronizing but to a lesser extent) < 1587327266 432035 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe programs I write I design to use ASCII and not Unicode, anyways < 1587327345 213758 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that reminds me, I came up with a binary format that has similar purposes to JSON, in which all strings encoded themselves (in UTF-8), and all nonstrings used invalid UTF-8 sequences < 1587327377 835494 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.239.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587327564 252007 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you encode surrogates if needed? < 1587327568 783125 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.19 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1587327586 872859 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You might need it if the data isn't Unicode, for example.) < 1587327670 354516 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then, what about characters beyond the range of Unicode? < 1587327756 553074 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have the documentation for your format? < 1587327806 119667 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1587327869 339269 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: http://nethack4.org/pastebin/gsap.txt < 1587327945 139243 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think out-of-range characters and surrogates can be encoded in the format, but the format is meant to disallow them because strings are meant to be Unicode only < 1587327961 423708 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a string of character-like things that is not Unicode, it should probably be stored as an array of bytes < 1587328045 656420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I think there's a missing " in the example near the start < 1587328048 445369 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't looked at this file for ages < 1587328272 140131 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not see anything about byte arrays; also, it doesn't seems to be able to use lists of exactly one element when dynamic types are used, from what I can tell. < 1587328316 940977 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a list of one element is equivalent to the element itself < 1587328326 589234 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a byte array would be represented as a nonliteral containing the bytes as arguments < 1587328339 514729 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. (bytes 2 12 255 0 255) < 1587328359 806102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is intended for use with schemas / strong typing, so you can always distinguish a singleton list from an element < 1587328374 55548 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is what I thought about a list of one element, but if a distinction is needed between lists and non-lists then that won't work when dynamic types are used. < 1587328417 128850 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says the format can be either statically or dynamically typed. With static types what you say will work, for the reason you mention, but that won't work so well for dynamic types, I think. < 1587328488 88799 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there are two ways to think about dynamic typing < 1587328516 347100 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO in a dynamically typed language, you should just treat the data as whatever type you're expecting it to have, and not care about what type it actually has < 1587328526 101194 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the byte arrays done in the way like you mention does not seem to be efficient. < 1587328627 435879 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's perl typing or dwim scalars < 1587328673 950154 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, but this is a very uncommon use case < 1587328697 229316 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes, it's the only sensible way to do dynamic typing I think < 1587328702 530593 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other method is to write programs sort of like in a strongly typed language, except you omit some enum constructors in favor of storing multiple types and checking for them, mostly with a nul type versus other types, or an array versus a number < 1587328716 988789 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I prefer that style < 1587328721 928788 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that and stringly typing, where everything is stored as a string (or else in some format that isn't a string but acts like one) < 1587328734 948373 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, there's that too < 1587328749 529025 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I think that style is kind-of terrible unless you have a huge supply of enum constructors that can just be used anywhere < 1587328759 939521 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and do in fact use them everywhere < 1587328779 669502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"this function takes a string or an integer" is horrible in terms of self-documentation, and can't easily be modified into taking a string or a different type of string < 1587328814 90918 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For storing structured data which does not need to be parsed into other data structures after it is read, I like the format http://fileformats.archiveteam.org/wiki/PostScript_binary_object_format but it has the disadvantage that, unlike your format, it does not support streaming writing, and will require two passes to write. < 1587328862 766102 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what do you call the kind of typing that x86 machine language or forth does, which isn't dynamic typing because there are no type tags in data, but also no type information at compile time? < 1587328901 478899 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: "everything is just bits" < 1587328906 447249 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if it has a proper name beyond that < 1587328945 692615 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, actually I think this conversation has helped me clarify my understanding: type tags in data that just store the type rather than the meaning are about as useful as Hungarian notation that just stores the type rather than the meaning < 1587328979 279960 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :occasionally it helps, but only in programs where each type can only have one possible meaning, which is rare < 1587329000 307247 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another format is RELOAD, which also supports efficient byte arrays like PostScript does, but that is with another different use. In RELOAD, all names are indicated by numbers, and which names correspond to which numbers is listed at the end. Although it requires parsing, it allows a program to write out using its own numbers, while when reading it can efficiently create a table mapping the file's numbers to its internal numbers. < 1587329120 404471 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the gsap format I linked, the main motivation was to be able to implement most parser-like operations using only a single stack, + an append-only output < 1587329133 719607 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make the best possible use of memory bandwidth and cache < 1587329141 150156 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is it "everything is just bits" even if you aren't manipulating bytes or fixed-size words, but nonnegative bignums such as in Amicus? < 1587329160 340744 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: well, the bignum is also just bits < 1587329167 595660 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to know it's a bignum some other way to be able to operate on it correctly < 1587329176 145512 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, it does have those advantages at least. < 1587329230 250686 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well it is manipulated in binary < 1587329353 203804 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: meaning of the data => yes, which is some modern dynamically typed languages are object-oriented. < 1587329435 26716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I find that in practice, Python or JavaScript programs nearly always are only meant to allow one type in each function argument / variable < 1587329457 482198 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this has to be documented and verified to always be the case by humans (or via some sort of typing extension to the language) < 1587329480 965339 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the dynamic typing mostly just serves to increase the risk of bugs and increase the amount of manual effort < 1587329483 523860 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I quite like python's type system: objects have a class, which you can imagine as if all objects (except maybe small integers) have a class pointer in them, and the class determines the representation of the rest of that object, as in what fields it has for normal objects, or whether it's a variable sized object like tuple or bytes or str that has an variable sized array allocated inside the object (so < 1587329489 529818 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't be resized). < 1587329509 134497 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas if you're using Perl-style typing, it's very hard to get wrong because you can't accidentally pass a string rather than an integer or the like < 1587329517 435798 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual representation could differ, this is just the notion < 1587329528 706327 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: There are some exceptions though, sometimes I do use support for multiple types in a variable/argument although usually it is only one type. Especially if it accepts null in addition to another type. < 1587329535 210642 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basical problem here is to do with references, which are a fundamentally different thing from strings and integers < 1587329552 821829 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can define new classes, and either you tell what fields they have, or you inherit from a class with one of those special variable sized representation. < 1587329553 325799 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another case in JavaScript is sometimes a function might accept either a string or a byte array; this is used in Node.js to represent file names, for example. < 1587329574 495504 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: "null or X" arguments have been a huge source of bugs historically, though; most modern programming languages use some techniques to ensure that nullability is always clear, and that the null case is handled if it could happen < 1587329596 472247 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very easy to write a function where some input could be null but the programmer didn't realise it while writing the function < 1587329644 14268 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes; if you are using Haskell then you can use Maybe, although in JavaScript programs at least, I write it the way I need and it still works anyways. < 1587329688 539328 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case, you can use python's class-object system to write programs where your functions accept many different types if you want < 1587329911 220130 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am now trying to write a specification of a change set format for TeXnicard, which is intended to be readable ASCII text which can be included in netnews articles. < 1587330030 909812 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have any comments about doing such a thing? < 1587331071 991136 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, do it 20 years ago... < 1587331210 306861 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't do it 20 years ago; I will do it now. It won't be useful to do it before TeXnicard is written, anyways. < 1587331289 154418 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: do TeXnicard 20 years ago too < 1587331356 450151 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I cannot do that, so I will have to do it now, instead. < 1587331626 168678 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@82.27.195.88 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587332048 984422 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:c48c:bbb2:381c:59f3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: TODOs at 36 completed manually. so BB(36) = Church 2^256 is proven modulo bugs in BB.lhs < 1587332146 695594 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:c48c:bbb2:381c:59f3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some TODOs could be eliminated if we can have H ::= □ | \v. H | H T | freeV H and B^V ::= W^V X^V | \v. B^V | B^V T | freeV B^V < 1587332397 960350 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:41eb:e44f:bad7:2bce QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1587332639 615893 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: that's probably fine < 1587332695 25929 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:c48c:bbb2:381c:59f3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for probable blessing:-) < 1587332985 417606 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587333055 290170 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1587333131 273368 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: you can generalize that a bit further to freeV T^* H < 1587333155 630099 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1587333162 243360 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that * is replication, not function iteration) < 1587333182 3084 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:15b2:7525:15fa:f922 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587333315 977572 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:15b2:7525:15fa:f922 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, good point, a normal form normalizes all arguments of a free variable < 1587333405 983350 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:c48c:bbb2:381c:59f3 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587334153 861221 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is my document for TeXnicard change set format: http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/texnicard.ui/artifact/7fd7e8d9db30a7ca or http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/texnicard.ui/raw/changeset.doc?name=7fd7e8d9db30a7ca2cb46cc5b0e3c03e064f7173 Now you can see if it is good or not, and what comment you have of it. < 1587340229 590764 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.239.249 NICK :arseniiv < 1587340231 263697 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1587340522 782592 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.239.249 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1587341506 9728 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1587344204 475095 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to add something to the list of application ID numbers of SQLite? I tried to tell them but doesn't seem to do. < 1587348126 239090 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@82.27.195.88 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587348629 232523 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@82.27.195.88 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1587349773 423291 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587353600 380648 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Resistor colours seem to be made to make it easily enough to remember, even without mnemonics, I think. < 1587359724 911782 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1587359753 400219 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1587360990 784672 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1587367585 392107 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:e8c1:e65e:9d0d:5cf6 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587368007 984932 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1587368428 444796 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric > 1587369705 861602 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Mama14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71250 5* 03Watermelon3D 5* (+64) 10Created page with "'''Mama''' is a work in progress language based on Cooking Mama." > 1587369723 912195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Mama14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71251&oldid=71250 5* 03Watermelon3D 5* (+25) 10 < 1587370409 316327 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:15b2:7525:15fa:f922 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587370595 853712 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:15b2:7525:15fa:f922 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587371116 784067 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@82.27.195.88 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587373069 796419 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1587374019 271756 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1587374071 404138 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric > 1587374401 556965 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Z423x5c6 5* 10New user account > 1587374576 292499 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71252&oldid=71158 5* 03Z423x5c6 5* (+182) 10 > 1587375409 498141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nuts14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71253&oldid=68434 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (-51) 10 < 1587376154 416567 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1587376345 960564 :watermelon3D!~watermelo@058176100159.ctinets.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1587376364 255398 :watermelon3D!~watermelo@058176100159.ctinets.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1587376386 890906 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587377067 860507 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric > 1587379893 670419 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nuts14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71254&oldid=71253 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+82) 10 > 1587380048 564356 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nuts14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71255&oldid=71254 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+9) 10 < 1587380375 107150 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587380487 798079 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1587381400 579596 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:15b2:7525:15fa:f922 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: or further to freeV T^* H T^* < 1587381845 971719 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: that makes no difference < 1587381881 278939 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because H ::= ... | H T | ... < 1587382116 402924 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587382433 222457 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Quit: reboot < 1587383119 341241 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(obviously it may make a difference to how you implement it) < 1587383146 644364 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: Maybe rename H to S though (for "strict context" rather than "head context") < 1587385799 40892 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1587387663 99810 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1587387689 204603 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:15b2:7525:15fa:f922 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: z T H T is different from z T (H T) < 1587388189 850850 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@82.27.195.88 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1587388375 972544 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: (z T H) T < 1587388454 212045 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:15b2:7525:15fa:f922 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, right you are < 1587389586 427059 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587389732 938132 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1587392355 811022 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@82.27.195.88 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587392952 737597 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1587393197 799519 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.83.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1587394462 848453 :batman_nair!~batman_na@103.228.221.83 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587394748 234752 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1587395522 429930 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@172.242.0.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587397284 424592 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:15b2:7525:15fa:f922 PRIVMSG #esoteric :testing my impl of strict heads... < 1587397337 671673 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:15b2:7525:15fa:f922 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far it eliminated -- TODO: \(\1 1) (\1 (\3 (2 1))) < 1587397913 448650 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:15b2:7525:15fa:f922 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and -- TODO: \\(\1 1) (\1 (\3 (2 1))) < 1587398023 807217 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear, i forgot how to make dwarfs haul trash < 1587398047 815822 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@172.242.0.73 PART :#esoteric < 1587398694 252359 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1587398713 810529 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1587398758 423416 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:15b2:7525:15fa:f922 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 4 more TODOs at 36 < 1587398769 227816 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:15b2:7525:15fa:f922 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bad < 1587399174 807775 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587399429 104867 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: set a dump zone with i, then mark each item as "dump", either individually through the k-interface, or for an area with d < 1587399467 286014 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i found that out. it's interesting what i actually remember < 1587399497 511250 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dodn't play in years, but qad to queue manufactoring of a door was still quite natural to me < 1587399566 818019 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope, pigs still don't need gras < 1587399679 817686 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cleaned my home keyboard < 1587399683 454126 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems like it, per the wiki < 1587399853 604074 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wiki is poor if you want to look up _how_ to do stuff sometimes < 1587399883 172329 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the entry about doors mentions three main settings but not how to toggle between those < 1587401086 98634 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-146-112-4.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1587401244 536712 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what game is this? < 1587401332 876271 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dwarf Fortress < 1587401343 805375 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :best game < 1587401523 710439 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1587401534 414269 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-146-112-4.natnow.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1587402136 277607 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nuts14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71256&oldid=71255 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+26) 10deadlink + typofix < 1587402405 702948 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric > 1587402950 163664 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[074214]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71257&oldid=58478 5* 03Silver 5* (+426) 10linked an implementation > 1587403053 466708 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Silver14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71258&oldid=69629 5* 03Silver 5* (+49) 10added 42 implementation link < 1587404455 600340 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1587405253 442225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1587405943 736567 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1587406930 943951 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:OsmineYT14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71259&oldid=67444 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+108) 10 < 1587406934 710717 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric > 1587406945 690969 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:OsmineYT14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71260&oldid=71259 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+1) 10 < 1587406966 30685 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Client Quit > 1587407395 744043 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Willicoder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71261&oldid=71242 5* 03Willicoder 5* (+141) 10 > 1587407413 894330 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Willicoder14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71262&oldid=71261 5* 03Willicoder 5* (+9) 10 > 1587407504 912047 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07USERA14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71263&oldid=67475 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+159) 10cats, typofix, example > 1587407624 861510 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07H14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71264&oldid=67674 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* Examples of programs */ you had two commands in your quine h and q, so fixed < 1587407672 832627 :batman_nair!~batman_na@103.228.221.83 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1587407744 805475 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@82.27.195.88 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds > 1587408170 504191 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71265&oldid=71236 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+12) 10/* U */ > 1587408190 987855 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Willicoder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71266&oldid=71262 5* 03Willicoder 5* (+357) 10 > 1587408478 20613 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Jsfunc14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71267 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+18) 10Created page with "{{lowercase}} Yeah" < 1587409087 576728 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds > 1587409257 783139 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Secretary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71268&oldid=42219 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10User:Wingpad has a capital W < 1587409539 426529 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@82.27.195.88 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587410153 609065 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1587410166 901169 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587410470 571819 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ncheyjsdlpphprjc JOIN :#esoteric < 1587410501 382380 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh fuck, i have a dead donkey in my dining room < 1587411081 835854 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? donkey business < 1587411084 323356 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :donkey business? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1587412672 202715 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:e8c1:e65e:9d0d:5cf6 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1587413347 305460 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@82.27.195.88 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds > 1587415339 599977 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Cmt14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71269&oldid=71240 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10PythonshellDebugwindow changed the content model of the page [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Cmt]] from "JSON" to "CSS" > 1587415339 618057 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/contentmodel14]]4 change10 02 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* 10PythonshellDebugwindow changed the content model of the page [[02User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Cmt10]] from "JSON" to "CSS" > 1587415447 610533 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Cmt14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71270&oldid=71269 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10PythonshellDebugwindow changed the content model of the page [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Cmt]] from "CSS" to "wikitext" > 1587415447 634945 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/contentmodel14]]4 change10 02 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* 10PythonshellDebugwindow changed the content model of the page [[02User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Cmt10]] from "CSS" to "wikitext" > 1587415463 797512 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Cmt14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71271&oldid=71270 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-144) 10Replaced content with "A hello World" > 1587415493 590918 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Cmt14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71272&oldid=71271 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+18) 10 > 1587415496 887506 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Cmt14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71273&oldid=71272 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+3) 10 > 1587416400 424184 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Welcome To...14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71274&oldid=71241 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1177) 10/* Board file */ < 1587418845 420505 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ncheyjsdlpphprjc QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1587419368 178487 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587419545 819750 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1587419546 919550 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1587421575 320670 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@82.27.195.88 JOIN :#esoteric > 1587423148 819786 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07JvN2914]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71275 5* 03Hdjensofjfnen 5* (+56) 10Created page with "# REDIRECT [[Von Neumann's 29-state cellular automaton]]" > 1587423156 418375 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07JvN2914]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71276&oldid=71275 5* 03Hdjensofjfnen 5* (-1) 10Redirected page to [[Von Neumann's 29-state cellular automaton]] > 1587423743 351714 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07John Horton Conway14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71277&oldid=30873 5* 03Hdjensofjfnen 5* (+14) 10 < 1587424867 82271 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@82.27.195.88 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1587425826 419105 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:15b2:7525:15fa:f922 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1587427103 665899 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Grawlix14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71278&oldid=69616 5* 03DMC 5* (+105) 10/* Functions */ < 1587429609 399928 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” > 1587429666 457543 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Solo14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71279&oldid=68168 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+116) 10Example + cats > 1587429715 692569 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71280&oldid=71265 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+11) 10/* S */ add Solo < 1587430489 830754 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1587430518 818926 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1587432073 849138 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1587432152 321684 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1587432471 330907 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1587432501 213783 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1587433081 779318 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.83.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1587435069 78728 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587435132 929187 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1587436044 624029 :iczero!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero QUIT :Quit: rip < 1587436070 897310 :iczero!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero JOIN :#esoteric < 1587437359 419943 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a command in CSS to replace a sequence of text characters with a picture? < 1587440920 373196 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1587442183 172440 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: rebooting < 1587442234 260683 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1587442879 810064 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now the source code of Super ZZT is also available. Super ZZT has some creatures that ZZT doesn't have, but two are unimplemented, and one is only partially implemented (it looks like to me that it is meant to chase the player with a zig zag path, although it tries to use unsigned variables as signed and fails to even update the sign correctly, too) < 1587444388 845369 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:e06b:4fbc:747c:681b JOIN :#esoteric < 1587444454 877140 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:bd4f:13ea:792b:36ad JOIN :#esoteric < 1587444528 993447 :tromp__!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:f8c0:e181:d702:34c2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587444656 845401 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:e06b:4fbc:747c:681b QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1587444719 854714 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:bd4f:13ea:792b:36ad QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1587444823 999309 :tromp__!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:f8c0:e181:d702:34c2 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587444936 59128 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:6883:b0c3:8e60:616d JOIN :#esoteric < 1587445200 988629 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:6883:b0c3:8e60:616d QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587446096 368985 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587448593 698915 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1587448927 989339 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1587448962 535472 :atslash!~atslash@46.188.0.82 JOIN :#esoteric > 1587449168 763809 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Jsfunc14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71281&oldid=71267 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+18) 10 > 1587449234 874323 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Jsfunc14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71282&oldid=71281 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+0) 10 < 1587449360 839071 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1587449422 2106 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1587450533 479429 :atslash!~atslash@46.188.0.82 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1587450560 473553 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1587450593 991225 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1587451290 443870 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1587451408 875139 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:6883:b0c3:8e60:616d JOIN :#esoteric < 1587451589 262112 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1587451691 841775 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:6883:b0c3:8e60:616d QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1587453046 731814 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I added into TeXnicard a command to use the external editor to edit user variables (which may be used for such things as notes for the card set). I also started making a card set using TeXnicard now. < 1587454265 74082 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:6883:b0c3:8e60:616d JOIN :#esoteric < 1587457593 781990 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.220 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587457849 442504 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.220 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since we call the numbers 0, 1, 2, ... the natural numbers, I've taken to calling all other numbers, unnatural numbers. < 1587457861 486840 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.220 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-1 is unnatural. < 1587457866 653016 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.220 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.5 is also unnatural. < 1587458443 709619 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1587458523 576646 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.220 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1587458562 303169 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: and call (1+i) an unimaginary number < 1587458944 700282 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1587459509 654080 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587459898 598300 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about a big number nobody commented on yet? > 1587460842 766299 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Jsfunc14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71283&oldid=71282 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+147) 10 > 1587460859 220640 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Jsfunc14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71284&oldid=71283 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (-1) 10 > 1587460974 856715 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Jsfunc14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71285 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+239) 10Created page with "== General discussion == Yeah, I know this is stub, because I don't had enough time to write this article. Maybe this will be changed in the future. --~~~~ duh." > 1587461034 734195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:OsmineYT14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71286&oldid=68691 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+34) 10 > 1587461065 663224 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:OsmineYT14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71287&oldid=71286 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+27) 10 > 1587461074 345365 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:OsmineYT14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71288&oldid=71287 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+4) 10 < 1587461372 162818 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-007-125-076.178.007.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds > 1587461603 429570 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Grid14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71289&oldid=70015 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (-44) 10Use internal links for wikipedia articles rather than external references < 1587461708 668518 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tfeztlrdwllkmxbd JOIN :#esoteric < 1587462121 311425 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-084-060-190-149.084.060.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1587462616 433802 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587462706 157570 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587462706 490122 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1587462711 153639 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1587463579 300761 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-084-060-190-149.084.060.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds > 1587464175 66501 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Saka14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71290&oldid=66469 5* 03Saka 5* (+53) 10 < 1587464385 182944 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-070-039-139.088.070.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1587465835 735556 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :real queston: how constraining is it, when underload strings may be at most 32 bytes lonf < 1587465841 573037 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it make the language unusable or something? < 1587465886 128521 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What exactly do you mean by "strings"? < 1587465955 191288 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :values on the stack are strings < 1587465960 47605 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now what if < 1587465974 949157 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I limited their length to 32 bytes a string < 1587465978 804332 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of unlimited bytes < 1587465985 333977 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it break Underload severely? < 1587466462 669677 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there something that prevents me from implementing my own c-style like strings on there? < 1587466518 204016 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, if the last byte is not a zero, get the next value from the stack and interpret it as a continuation of the current string < 1587466537 651657 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :slight drawback is a maximum of 31 byte overhead per string < 1587467373 860085 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underload is hard enough (well, IMO) anyway, even without attempting to deal with a limitation like that. < 1587467768 54007 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of programs contain (...):^ where ... is a substantial chunk of the program, and that involves having ... on the stack. It's not immediately obvious how to translate that to requiring less stack size. < 1587469451 859657 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tfeztlrdwllkmxbd QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1587469609 858453 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I don't mean that < 1587469611 864596 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stack is unlimited < 1587469615 934514 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a size of a string is fixed < 1587469628 375062 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can push as many things onto stack as you want < 1587469637 104837 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT size of a single element can't exceed certain size < 1587470016 380474 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587470025 166332 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1587470131 467851 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587470492 865668 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:6883:b0c3:8e60:616d PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: was able to complete a BB(37) search with latest code. got 49 TODOs... < 1587470866 638152 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow that's exciting! < 1587470887 350898 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: That's what I meant. If you have a big outer loop, the natural construction is (...this is a long sequence of code, probably more than 32 bytes...):^ and it's not trivial (if it's even possible) to do that in pieces. < 1587470926 791333 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587472266 413315 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:6883:b0c3:8e60:616d PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suspect that BB(37) = BB(35) + 2 :-( < 1587472501 853746 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the worst-case slowdown translating a turing machine into lambda calculus, I wonder? < 1587473006 394660 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.83.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1587474332 691783 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: it's basically functional programming... the tape becomes two stacks (cons lists), and the rest is finite control, so it's a constant factor for any fixed TM. < 1587474385 548776 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it therefore appropriate to expect BB_TM to be proportional to BB_LC? < 1587474394 539838 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1587474419 562249 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The finite control plus two stacks is a vanishingly small fragment of what LC can do. < 1587474441 84479 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But on the other hand, sizes are not comparable at all either. < 1587474515 402237 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're explicit about the construction you'll find functions f and g (probably polynomial) such that BB_TM(n) <= BB_LC(f(n)) and BB_LC(n) <= BB_TM(g(n)). < 1587474575 429432 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But those bounds will be very coarse. < 1587474615 572434 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Because they'd be obtained by mapping lambda terms to a small fragment of Turing machines, and Turing machines to a small fragment of lambda terms.) < 1587474987 726285 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:6883:b0c3:8e60:616d PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(n) <= 2*n*ceil(log_2(4*n+4))+O(1) < 1587475122 852606 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:6883:b0c3:8e60:616d PRIVMSG #esoteric :g(n) is probably sublinear < 1587475248 183574 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: Uhm, that's a different BB_LC. < 1587475272 62679 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(One with input.) < 1587475369 76665 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one we're currently studying (more you than I) doesn't have a dense encoding for bitstrings. < 1587475573 617478 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1587475654 381321 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:6883:b0c3:8e60:616d PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then the 2*n shld be replaced by 28*n < 1587475661 805564 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's easy to encode 1 bit in 4-5 bits or 2 bits in 3-7 bits. < 1587475694 902839 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do stuff like 1 (2 (1 (2 3))) for [0,1,0,1]. < 1587475724 732894 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:6883:b0c3:8e60:616d PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1587475748 398367 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(4-7, not 3-7, of course) < 1587475786 695907 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you can get quite a bit more elaborate than that and get some way below 3.5 bits per bit. < 1587475829 84552 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 8/logBase 2 5 < 1587475830 824397 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3.4454124645871445 < 1587475851 517873 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But base 5 is ugly when talking about bitstrings.) < 1587475876 85553 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1587476170 928596 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (4.5, 5.5/2, 6.5/logBase 2 6, 7.5/3) -- actually we can reverse the meanings of 1 and 2 (or 1..4) to make sure we get an encoding that only uses the average length, even in the worst case. < 1587476173 144919 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : (4.5,2.75,2.5145432470245206,2.5) < 1587476188 639413 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh. < 1587476200 458755 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (4.5, 5.5/2, 7/logBase 2 7, 7.5/3) < 1587476202 666159 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : (4.5,2.75,2.493450309756155,2.5) < 1587476225 903374 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I misread which base gave the optimal number of bits in this setting) < 1587476284 740765 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, 2.5 bits per bit if we encode in base 8. That's... better than expected already. < 1587476364 977366 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [(4 + (n-1)/2) / logBase 2 n | n <- [2,4,7,8]] < 1587476367 225793 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : [4.5,2.75,2.493450309756155,2.5] < 1587477812 452228 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: my guess is that 32 bytes would be very limiting, but with a much larger constant size you could probably still implement a turing machine < 1587477827 828360 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a finite control two-stack machine or whatnot < 1587477855 234894 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that each of those elements will be very long because they each contain full a program for that two-stack machine, < 1587477866 293704 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since you can write a univeral machine for that, the size is effectively constant < 1587477872 278814 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could be wrong here < 1587478023 737199 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1587478052 756711 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would be a rather inefficient means of computation of course, worse than brainfuck < 1587478067 632970 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I thought about implementing underload in Brainfuck < 1587478070 30684 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now, meeeeh < 1587478091 663681 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it requires a lot of dynamic memory allocation I can't really simplify this much < 1587478238 540859 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1587480312 219330 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587481328 604846 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587481435 588684 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric > 1587481997 543678 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07I like frog14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71291&oldid=71188 5* 03Apollyon094 5* (+2) 10 < 1587482043 700434 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1587482274 708667 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07I like frog14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71292&oldid=71291 5* 03Apollyon094 5* (-1) 10 < 1587483088 924057 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1587483136 751629 :atslash!~atslash@46.188.0.82 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587483341 781815 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did wolfram discover rule 30 < 1587483842 808412 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh philosophy < 1587483846 309244 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was always there < 1587483849 74159 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:d1e4:94fc:5e34:251a PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that is one thing that is genuinely due to him. He invented the numbering scheme used for the simple 1D cellular automata. < 1587483963 118653 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I was going to ask about the numbering scheme < 1587483978 919407 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and also about who made this study systematic) < 1587484018 595201 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it blows my mind that nobody enumerated the 1d CAs before < 1587484022 817367 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:d1e4:94fc:5e34:251a PRIVMSG #esoteric :In general, Wolfram seems to like taking credit for other people's work though, so it wouldn't really surprise me much to find out that it was someone else. < 1587484025 160773 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and noticed that rule 30 was interesting < 1587484036 284300 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's my reason for asking < 1587484051 34391 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, who knows what people do in their basement (so to speak). < 1587484202 551187 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> The concept was originally discovered in the 1940s by Stanislaw Ulam and John von Neumann while they were contemporaries at Los Alamos National Laboratory. While studied by some throughout the 1950s and 1960s, it was not until the 1970s and Conway's Game of Life < 1587484205 777932 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : :1:39: error: parse error on input ‘in’ < 1587484255 482587 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:d1e4:94fc:5e34:251a PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a point in time at which if you wanted to know how cellular automata would play out, your best bet would be to get some graph paper and start filling in squares < 1587484320 319711 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im trying to look into what these 2 folks did on CA first < 1587484321 823237 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah hard to imagine doing this systematically without at least a matrix dot printer, and preferrably a pixel-oriented monitor. < 1587484413 663601 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But also the basement thing... it's easy to dismiss concrete cellular automata as a cute hobby that's not worth publishing. < 1587484647 877815 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Neumann_cellular_automaton < 1587484661 286702 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like the original guys were working on 2d CAs, similar to wireworld kind of < 1587484693 267888 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine the self-replication by simple rules was the driving idea there. < 1587484866 6197 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/cellular-automata/#BrieHist < 1587485144 672599 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtis%E2%80%93Hedlund%E2%80%93Lyndon_theorem is anyone familiar with this? < 1587485212 188347 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: we have an article at https://esolangs.org/wiki/Von_Neumann%27s_29-state_cellular_automaton too < 1587485575 575065 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is anyone reading any good new math or CS books? < 1587485999 796814 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:6883:b0c3:8e60:616d QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587486673 381573 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reading some good old maths or CS books (there's a lot of them to work through) < 1587486733 514812 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are your favorite ones? < 1587486781 81229 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently reading Quantum Computation and Quantum Information by Nielsen and Chuang < 1587486789 345191 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah that's a good one < 1587486790 418083 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1587486810 743412 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1587486834 13562 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:6883:b0c3:8e60:616d JOIN :#esoteric < 1587486950 114781 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1587487016 389640 :batman_nair!~batman_na@103.228.221.83 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587487085 623826 :ProofTechnique!sid79547@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ghyzuqdvajivhjps QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1587487265 886061 :ocharles!sid30093@musicbrainz/user/ocharles QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1587487275 467252 :glowcoil!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vxsogqhlxlhjgaib QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1587487327 54999 :mich181189!sid268336@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xchlnniznwjwexfe QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1587487404 393528 :ocharles!sid30093@musicbrainz/user/ocharles JOIN :#esoteric < 1587487440 143860 :glowcoil!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hbquoxnigqhhniax JOIN :#esoteric < 1587487546 20988 :ProofTechnique!sid79547@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iszpkuvpwrnzlqms JOIN :#esoteric < 1587487569 257948 :mich181189!sid268336@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xmettwmszgwfhuak JOIN :#esoteric < 1587487620 414787 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:6883:b0c3:8e60:616d QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587488219 994352 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1587488319 369851 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587488335 869983 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4980:e58a:282a:5feb JOIN :#esoteric < 1587489027 272591 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4980:e58a:282a:5feb QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587489255 330142 :atslash!~atslash@46.188.0.82 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1587489265 61436 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1587489822 397138 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.229.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587489890 729591 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1587489955 394383 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.83.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1587491223 36217 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you reading rain1? < 1587491276 274190 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing right now! I'm trying to find something good < 1587491298 781267 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I last read a good one about basic particle physics explained via lego < 1587491810 333237 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4980:e58a:282a:5feb JOIN :#esoteric < 1587492982 976643 :batman_nair!~batman_na@103.228.221.83 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587493443 723771 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1587493892 724197 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1587493996 156896 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4980:e58a:282a:5feb QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587494023 306968 :dnm_!sid401311@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jitcmpemkqzepcqv NICK :dnm < 1587494052 849671 :dnm!sid401311@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jitcmpemkqzepcqv NICK :Guest95546 < 1587494228 124580 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: cool, do you have a link to that? < 1587494310 943806 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've started reading these lecture notes on computablity, arithmetical hierarchy, ... https://www.comp.nus.edu.sg/~fstephan/recursiontheory-pdflatex.pdf, but have been meaning to get back at it sometime < 1587494350 114929 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Quit: quit < 1587494510 602497 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.amazon.co.uk/Particle-Physics-Brick-Ben-Still/dp/184403934X < 1587494558 22878 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :these notes look fun < 1587495891 105027 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4980:e58a:282a:5feb JOIN :#esoteric < 1587496211 749385 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would hope that some of us can make working together on making TeXnicard and on the templates. Even though I would probably write most of the C/SQL/PostScript codes myself, I would hope other people can help too, such as contributing templates, making bug reports and feature requests, examining the way the codes are written in order to complain about it, improving documentation, etc. < 1587496369 814517 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not know who to ask, really. < 1587496541 837848 :Guest95546!sid401311@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jitcmpemkqzepcqv NICK :dnm < 1587496903 292814 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1587497413 134325 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.twitch.tv/stephen_wolfram < 1587497500 189924 :dnm!sid401311@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jitcmpemkqzepcqv PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: TeXnicard? < 1587498066 38237 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :dnm: It is a program to managing and rendering custom cards for games such as Magic: the Gathering. It is an alternative to Magic Set Editor. > 1587498109 395847 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FileCode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71293&oldid=69675 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+69) 10cat adds > 1587498940 740646 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71294&oldid=71189 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+24) 10 < 1587499159 476940 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps, I should add a frequently ask question section too. < 1587499173 52047 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a Fossil repository available at: http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/texnicard.ui < 1587499400 141306 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1587499405 86768 :dnm!sid401311@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jitcmpemkqzepcqv PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Thanks for the link. Just checked out the Fossil site. < 1587499497 974153 :dnm!sid401311@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jitcmpemkqzepcqv PRIVMSG #esoteric :Among other things, I had never heard of Farbfeld before, so now I know something about that (mostly, that it exists). < 1587499729 813413 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The link to Farbfeld Utilities describes the file format, which is simple. Farbfeld can be a useful format to process pictures within pipes; I personally do not use it as an on disk storage format, although the inventor of the format suggested using farbfeld compressed with bzip2 as an on disk storage format. > 1587501822 327257 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71295&oldid=71245 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+29) 10 > 1587501940 155902 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71296&oldid=71294 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+2384) 10/* Unnamed language 2 */ > 1587501968 797092 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71297&oldid=71296 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* Unnamed language 2 */ < 1587504248 601161 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote limerick < 1587504251 26605 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1587504751 103185 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote animated < 1587504752 134292 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :1107) Sgeo: oh yeah those animated characters were built into the operating system and there was an API for them < 1587504753 420178 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :unicode < 1587504762 347224 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :animated emojis < 1587504794 920217 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just a blink attribute < 1587504805 152066 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :handled by the VGA card < 1587504857 819588 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do VGA cards even have a mode with blink attribute for text mode? blinking cursor, that I can see, but blinking characters are just annoying < 1587504867 1884 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why'd they build that into hardware? < 1587504922 284439 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, in VGA it's mostly redundant because you could just emulate it by changing palette colors < 1587504925 622937 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still < 1587504949 433604 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other PC video cards have that too in text mode < 1587504954 479021 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't only VGA < 1587504964 173078 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: right, but why? < 1587505014 720928 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not really sure why they put that in, although that function can be disabled. < 1587505018 64761 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing it was less of a "this is super useful" and more of a "we have this leftover attribute bit and this can be implemented with minimal hardware" < 1587505036 262617 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be used for error messages to get the user's attention < 1587505062 261536 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, probably. ZZT also uses it for flashy water < 1587505080 186191 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or as decoration in like moves about hacking < 1587505084 149595 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the hardware supports blinking cursor then not much extra hardware is required for blinking arbitrary text < 1587505120 652989 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, although the CRTC chip they used already supports cursor blinking, and yet they didn't use it, implementing their own instead. < 1587505134 642308 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the cursor blinking rate and text blinking rate are different (although they are synchronized). < 1587505235 916073 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1587505236 901711 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1587505243 389527 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1587505256 326315 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587505273 880260 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1587505404 330768 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4551:5089:e36:8f84 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587505578 64754 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4980:e58a:282a:5feb QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1587505605 74752 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4551:5089:e36:8f84 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587505838 589713 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587505974 374569 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1587506006 870563 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1587506302 790438 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1587506309 666486 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1587507205 392869 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.229.28 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1587507601 14201 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4551:5089:e36:8f84 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587507898 991295 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4551:5089:e36:8f84 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587508222 759515 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the time cube < 1587508227 13017 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? time cube < 1587508228 354003 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :EARTH HAS 4 CORNER SIMULTANEOUS 4-DAY TIME CUBE IN ONLY 24 HOUR ROTATION. 4 CORNER DAYS, CUBES 4 QUAD EARTH. Bible A Lie & Word Is Lies. Navel Connects 4 Corner 4s. God Is Born Of A Mother - She Left Belly B. Signature. Your dirty lying teachers use only the midnight to midnight 1 day (ignoring 3 other days) Time to not foul (already wrong) bible time. Lie that corrupts earth you educated stupid fools. < 1587508243 680110 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :teaches that Earth is a cube, then is http://www.rogermwilcox.com/square_earth.html the Time square? < 1587508469 872234 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:8072:f253:7f2b:d619 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587508657 476674 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok gn < 1587508748 840224 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:8072:f253:7f2b:d619 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1587508922 489605 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O (And how's that linked to Times Square?) < 1587510573 705112 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1587510795 139729 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, follow a road to Rome, then find the road from Times Square (which also leads to Rome) and traverse it backwards. < 1587510816 310467 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(universal directions) < 1587510883 338190 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode ⊠ < 1587510884 277033 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+22A0 SQUARED TIMES] < 1587510980 546085 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i,i MAY YOU LIVE IN N-ARY TIMES OPERATOR < 1587511203 842870 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh nice > 1587512840 931471 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71298&oldid=71295 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10 < 1587513628 321766 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587513651 796991 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1587517180 12341 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@172.242.0.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587518434 838124 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@172.242.0.73 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1587519606 799936 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1587520078 43865 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello > 1587527148 965061 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Egaharjb14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71299 5* 03DanielCristofani 5* (+1691) 10Created page with "This is a very simple language I designed accidentally. It consists only of regex find-and-replaces with loops; it's meant for banging text files into a different shape, but i..." < 1587527956 845727 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:8072:f253:7f2b:d619 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587528236 840888 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:8072:f253:7f2b:d619 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1587528327 236407 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1587528639 330499 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:3109:11c:25a8:8ffd JOIN :#esoteric < 1587528961 351553 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:3109:11c:25a8:8ffd QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1587529637 990394 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1587529915 988495 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1587529931 162587 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the version control file in TeXnicard should store multiple versions < 1587532886 328941 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:31b1:7752:d9c3:1f7b JOIN :#esoteric < 1587533179 321296 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:31b1:7752:d9c3:1f7b QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1587533871 10749 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:552e:4c4c:241c:4355 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587534173 2475 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:552e:4c4c:241c:4355 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587534926 302417 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587537123 12400 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:552e:4c4c:241c:4355 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587537420 993200 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:552e:4c4c:241c:4355 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587538847 315762 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:552e:4c4c:241c:4355 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587541633 560796 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.froup.com/tr/tr.pl?242 < 1587542166 236748 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587542825 105179 :wlp1s1!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero JOIN :#esoteric < 1587542845 773801 :iczero!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1587545719 351850 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:552e:4c4c:241c:4355 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1587546056 866646 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:552e:4c4c:241c:4355 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587546395 477938 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric > 1587546815 869439 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Egaharjb14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71300&oldid=71299 5* 03DanielCristofani 5* (+531) 10 < 1587546856 299975 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric > 1587547051 864268 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Egaharjb14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71301&oldid=71300 5* 03DanielCristofani 5* (+740) 10 < 1587547224 564562 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"given two rooted trees, calculate minimal amount of leafs to remove so that the trees are isomorphic" <- is there a smarter solution to that than bruteforce? > 1587547379 14216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71302&oldid=71280 5* 03DanielCristofani 5* (+15) 10/* E */ > 1587547607 50345 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Egaharjb14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71303&oldid=71301 5* 03DanielCristofani 5* (+0) 10 < 1587548072 960375 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: are those trees ordered or unordered? < 1587548113 171429 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are unordered < 1587548155 451894 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just clarifying, it may not even make any real difference to hardness) < 1587548177 865441 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard that there's a more optimal solution to this problem < 1587548180 173943 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't figure it out < 1587548202 867962 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"more optimal" :-/ < 1587548247 888140 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587548302 321394 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :has lower computational complexity < 1587548438 40515 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi! < 1587548545 646157 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1587548574 504438 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1587548722 328622 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Cell14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71304&oldid=68083 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+56) 10 < 1587548735 633927 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: but rooted, I hope < 1587548744 425577 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes obviously < 1587548765 959404 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect this one is actually in P. < 1587548924 711518 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's amenable to dynamic programming (in order to figure out the answer for the root, first compute the answer for all pairs of children of the root), with maximum weight bipartite matching to combine those values. < 1587548957 981345 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For this purpose, the value that is to be maximized is the number of leafs kept.) > 1587549130 516624 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:OsmineYT14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71305&oldid=71288 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+16) 10 < 1587549150 863680 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric > 1587549179 153279 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:OsmineYT14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71306&oldid=71305 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+1) 10 > 1587549206 294857 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:OsmineYT14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71307&oldid=71306 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (-16) 10 < 1587549214 817545 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1587549229 913759 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1587549302 796288 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Any unpaired children end up with 0 leafs; they are deleted in full. There may well be an off-by-one error in this logic, but essentially it should work like this.) < 1587549495 564051 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've already done the Newick parser < 1587549599 83921 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eww, Firefox, why? Why enlarge the location bar when it's focused? < 1587550332 301762 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. It can be disabled, at least for now, https://lifehacker.com/how-to-disable-firefox-75s-new-address-bar-1842728031 < 1587550728 955327 :wlp1s1!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero QUIT :Excess Flood < 1587550742 627468 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's actually kind of impressive just how offensive I find this idea. I feel like they're pushing that thing into my face. But it probably comes from having trained myself to notice and act upon minor visual cues from the UI for decades. Oh and I hate change.) < 1587550751 350636 :wlp1s1!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero JOIN :#esoteric < 1587550762 268659 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: parsing seems to be the easy part :P < 1587550770 255088 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1587550783 209275 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm essentially in a point where I have the labeled tree's hashmap built < 1587550795 682901 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think I'm up to something > 1587550910 717210 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Egaharjb14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71308&oldid=71303 5* 03Keymaker 5* (+194) 10Added some categories. > 1587551407 173622 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Daniel B. Cristofani14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71309&oldid=30550 5* 03DanielCristofani 5* (+18) 10 < 1587551829 421458 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/3627784/does-the-fraction-of-distinct-substrings-in-prefixes-of-the-thue-morse-sequence perhaps this question is of interest to folks here > 1587552573 579308 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Beatnik14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71310&oldid=67619 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+65) 10 < 1587553676 274043 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder which substrings do not occur < 1587553725 97910 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do all substrings occur? but some occur multiple times < 1587553735 502538 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:552e:4c4c:241c:4355 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BB*36) looking mighty impressive on https://oeis.org/A333479 < 1587554246 611182 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much do you trust those numbers? < 1587554376 364932 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:552e:4c4c:241c:4355 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not with my life, but would be willing to stake some money on them > 1587554430 495637 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Egaharjb14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71311&oldid=71308 5* 03DanielCristofani 5* (+18) 10 > 1587554483 883892 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Egaharjb14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71312&oldid=71311 5* 03DanielCristofani 5* (-4) 10 < 1587554613 633779 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:552e:4c4c:241c:4355 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so about as much as i trust numbers in https://oeis.org/A094777 < 1587554684 476123 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1587555125 297742 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: Hmm, on the OEIS page, maybe you could mention the 5n+6 thing? < 1587555225 566519 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: And about the Go enumeration, do you have the number(s) of edge states somewhere? < 1587555434 50065 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, the paper has it. 363,324,268,018 < 1587555448 578338 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:552e:4c4c:241c:4355 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, also mentioned on my webpage < 1587555507 511558 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:552e:4c4c:241c:4355 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, i can add 5n+6. and links to the BB files > 1587555700 733122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Control Flow14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71313&oldid=51805 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+1432) 10Added a few more control flow examples and the Concepts category < 1587556088 780639 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hip, hip, hooray! My little paper is on arXiv. > 1587557577 197804 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Modulo14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71314 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+183) 10Created page with "'''Modulo''' is esolang invented and created by [[User:OsmineYT]]. All commands must start with "%" (modulo, percent) sign. == Syntax == Every Modulo command starts with modu..." < 1587558173 140901 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587558635 804240 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric > 1587559158 667501 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:OsmineYT14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71315&oldid=71307 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+95) 10 < 1587559510 906742 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( There are three kinds of people, those who believe in the law of excluded middle and those who don't. ) < 1587560529 783223 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.231.141 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587564023 252633 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... True, false, neither. Technically correct? > 1587564373 252551 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FarTooGeneral14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71316 5* 03Baidicoot 5* (+2337) 10Created page with "= FarTooGeneral = FarTooGeneral (FTG) is an esoteric 'execution architecture' created by [[/wiki/User:Baidicoot|User:Baidicoot]] during the COVID-19 pandemic as a means of not..." > 1587564646 681125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FarTooGeneral14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71317&oldid=71316 5* 03Baidicoot 5* (+199) 10/* Execution */ > 1587564682 905200 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FarTooGeneral14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71318&oldid=71317 5* 03Baidicoot 5* (+13) 10/* Example Data Structures */ > 1587565932 869832 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Orby14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71319&oldid=70544 5* 03Orby 5* (+85) 10 > 1587566089 136767 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FarTooGeneral14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71320&oldid=71318 5* 03Baidicoot 5* (+1169) 10 > 1587566193 261490 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FarTooGeneral14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71321&oldid=71320 5* 03Baidicoot 5* (+133) 10/* Example Program */ > 1587566232 744438 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FarTooGeneral14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71322&oldid=71321 5* 03Baidicoot 5* (-25) 10/* Example Program */ > 1587566337 705970 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Disan14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71323&oldid=65501 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+57) 10cats > 1587566362 214002 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71324&oldid=71302 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+12) 10/* D */ < 1587566803 869150 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1587567366 933803 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ASM14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71325&oldid=70435 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+10) 10/* Examples */ fix link > 1587567398 584 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ASM14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71326&oldid=71325 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+20) 10/* Examples */ pipe trick < 1587567521 749876 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:552e:4c4c:241c:4355 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: the following appears to be looping, but is still a bit of a challenge to prove: < 1587567523 934389 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:552e:4c4c:241c:4355 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- TODO: (\1 1) (\1 (1 (\\2 (3 1)))) < 1587567576 807000 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1587567634 322819 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1587567694 312449 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1587568674 523372 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1587568720 499919 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1587570179 475370 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1587570295 997898 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1587570784 39820 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1587570891 912123 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1587572066 361197 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1587573776 611694 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have some ideas about the change set format and version control file format of TeXnicard? I thought that perhaps the version control file should store multiple versions, just writing the new version at the end after the previous version. Two new fields can be added in the header, one points to the most recent key frame (since there is no need to read previous frames), and other one points to the end of the file. < 1587573813 366552 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You need one to point to the end of the file in case the data is partially written at the end, so that it is possible to recover from it.) < 1587574414 235852 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587574446 282292 :atslash!~atslash@46.188.0.82 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587575694 299493 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-exsxozqarepttllt JOIN :#esoteric < 1587576531 309129 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1587576766 399585 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.172 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587576901 808487 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.231.141 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1587577273 262370 :atslash!~atslash@46.188.0.82 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1587577276 778050 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1587577306 880019 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric > 1587577608 931300 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Gummy Bear14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71327 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+15940) 10+[[Gummy Bear]] > 1587577613 386008 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71328&oldid=71324 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+17) 10+[[Gummy Bear]] > 1587577617 377788 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Hakerh40014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71329&oldid=71249 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+17) 10+[[Gummy Bear]] < 1587579397 304986 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1587579585 745674 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:552e:4c4c:241c:4355 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587579606 57749 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:552e:4c4c:241c:4355 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587580335 428417 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recall someone in here playing ifMUD. < 1587580338 56761 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: was it you? < 1587580345 888166 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: Yes. < 1587580370 469171 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do permissions/ownership principles work in ifMUD? if a person designs an object and others use it, how malicious can it be? < 1587580401 944040 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: It can teleport the user, but not much else. < 1587580460 957347 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. can one user's object interact with another user's object? is there a dedicated permissions system? < 1587580499 483542 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, there is no permission system, unfortunately. < 1587580507 503917 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting. < 1587580527 702750 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, there is a very limited one: If an object has the "examinable" flag set, then other users, and programs by other users, can read that object's fields; otherwise they are unreadable.) < 1587580584 776052 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are also listening exits, which it would seem can be triggered by programs, so this can be done to activate another object remotely by a program even if you do not own it. < 1587580645 468632 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted a more sophisticated permission system, where you can define group/other permissions (similar to UNIX permissions) on field names and on prefixes of field names (where the "group" is actually a channel), although this is not currently implemented. < 1587580667 959359 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-234-164-48.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do all putty-based terminal software hate diacricits < 1587580711 438123 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-234-164-48.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know of a terminal software that doesn't hate diacritics? < 1587580716 926719 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: how easy/difficult would you say it'd be to implement something like this purely in ifMUD coe? < 1587580719 477377 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/coe/code < 1587580801 168916 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: The permissions system I mentioned I think would have to be done in Perl, although there are many things that can be done in ifMUD code; you can look at some of my object codes (most of them are set examinable) in order to see how I have done some of them < 1587580847 498443 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :is ifMUD extensible via perl? < 1587580858 607993 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh. < 1587580886 202663 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is written in Perl, although only the server operator can alter its code (although apparently it is possible to alter it while it is running; I am not sure how that works, though) < 1587580926 632516 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason I ask is that I'm debating between including a permissions system for my project or allowing "world builders" to add it via plugins (along with other pieces of code). < 1587580950 15435 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now all I do is hand you a postfix lang, a key-value db and a chat system. < 1587580966 342992 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a way to import procedures via a "package manager". < 1587581053 677576 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that a permission system should be added, more than what ifMUD currently has (which is only the "examinable" flag, which isn't much) < 1587581418 113598 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587582589 857343 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps the prefix-based permissions like I mentioned might do. < 1587582832 324015 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for the info. I think I've decided to have a very, very basic set of permissions that are applicable regardless of intent. owners of "servers" can determine who can use what procedures and primitives, and create roles for people that join. < 1587582985 653902 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1587584144 123709 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.172 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: oh you are making a multi-world-something-thing? < 1587584273 283367 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.172 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and using that queue-based language we’ve discussed a handful of times? how had it evolved, did you add something else to threading? < 1587584709 130135 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: yup! I'm taking a majority of the language and turning it into a multi-"world" multi-user environment. < 1587584724 425033 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I scrapped the concurrency features. < 1587584748 173141 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I added things like lists, strings, floats, local and global (across all procedures and persistent) variables. < 1587584834 588646 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you make a user account, you can join "worlds" other users have created. < 1587584890 505934 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :each of these worlds constitutes a key-value database, a set of procedures, and a set of groups. there's also a package manager and a central package repository for importing new features into your world. < 1587584910 394350 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.172 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that’s interesting. I’ll help you test this thing if you’d be interesting and I would be able to set up the things it would need < 1587584917 226422 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1587584981 931577 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd love that! I plan on launching a private alpha to interested parties to test things out. eventually, I plan on having world ownership be a subscription service. < 1587585100 545944 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiered by resources, essentially. if you want a larger call depth, more key-value entries, longer programs and larger scratch space, you can have that. < 1587585237 503097 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.172 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: BTW how do you see (hm I forgot the accurate term) a “named-field spreadsheet” thing where if X is defined using Y and Y’s definition changes, X’s value would change automatically (and if X depends on itself, the system would strongly criticize you and not do anything)? It may or may not be useful in such setting. Certainly not for all definitions, but maybe for some specially marked ones < 1587585301 216822 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd see that as a dataflow graph. < 1587585332 88057 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you change a cell, all cells that depend on that cell would have to update, and all cells that depend on the newly updated cells would have to update, so on and so forth. < 1587585351 514371 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.172 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in any case you can lambdabot me if I won’t be around, I’m lazy to logread for a long long time now) < 1587585364 175210 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.172 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that’s how I understand that thing is implemented < 1587585375 302829 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's not much else you can do. < 1587585375 366443 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.172 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you check for cycles when a definition changes < 1587585379 713020 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup. < 1587585432 625521 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.172 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be made into a its own kind of storage if it’s useful, but I didn’t experiment with this before, only read about it < 1587585572 967574 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not so interested in what imode is making unless perhaps the source code will be freely available and fully documented, and can be used with a telnet client. I also have no interest in joining a private alpha, regardless of the conditions. < 1587585709 408972 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if it helps, I plan on releasing a self-hostable version in the future that's FOSS. < 1587585758 108403 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that can help. < 1587585767 906391 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta make money somehow in the interrim. < 1587585798 960059 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, OK, and even if the self-hostable FOSS version is available, you can still charge money for using on your server too, anyways, I think < 1587585858 875964 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-exsxozqarepttllt QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1587585904 471727 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct. typically there's a good stretch between when something is available and when the product is open sourced. the start-up costs involved are made back by the exclusivity in the first couple of months, and then after that you have an existing user base that's already present on your infra. < 1587585930 134861 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1587585946 387896 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so people who really wanna dig into the code and self-host will be happy, but I can still pay my engineers and offer convenience. < 1587586298 903833 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today I was pondering about what monads in the poset of sets and the subset relation, considered as a category, look like < 1587586318 343106 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then the friend I was talking to googled and apparently they're closure operators, which are apparently a thing < 1587586466 23960 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love it when things are things < 1587586545 341604 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.172 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and comonads there are… damn, I forgot the part where I read about functions on set algebras being the other way. They had a name for that too < 1587586629 263437 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coclosure operator? < 1587586782 717821 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.172 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: they had a usual name too, I think that was a chapter in Pierce, on recursive types, maybe regarding to the difference between μ and ν. That required a more general theory which I’ll try to find now what it was there about < 1587586812 976123 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kernel operators? < 1587587213 423837 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeXnicard seem not the only alternative to Magic Set Editor; I also found something called PrincessEdit, although I cannot seem to find any documentation about how to use it. < 1587587218 827983 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.172 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I found that part. There, several properties of a subset X ⊂ U, given a function F: P(U) → P(U) (P is powerset), are defined: X is F-closed if X ⊂ F(X), is F-consistent if F(X) ⊂ X (and a fixed point if F(X) = X, but that’s not interesting). So that’s not too related to closure operators but if it somehow is, co-operators may be called “consistency operators”, hm < 1587587403 168015 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.172 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see. For F being a closure operator at least requires any X ⊂ U be F-closed < 1587587430 712916 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.172 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so F being a “consistency operator” should require any X be F-consistent < 1587587468 639249 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.172 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as of monotonicity and idempotency of F in this case, I don’t know < 1587587614 288763 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.172 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah there is a simpler axiomatization: X ⊂ F(Y) iff F(X) ⊂ F(Y). Now it’s obvious how to dualize that! F(X) ⊂ Y iff F(X) ⊂ F(Y). And also we can plainly see monadic bind and comonadic extend here too, yeah < 1587587645 551650 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.172 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Kleisli or something something form < 1587587665 950176 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.172 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don’t know what I’m saying here < 1587587709 104958 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.172 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes, they say on en.wikipedia the dual is called a kernel operator indeed! Or also an interior operator or a dual closure < 1587587813 508595 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.172 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also when axiomatizing closure via monotonicity, idempotency and “any X is F-closed”, they say the dual has both first and second unchanged < 1587588039 169741 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh jesus, pointless topolocy < 1587588046 377493 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this channel can get weird about mathematics > 1587588131 857575 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71330&oldid=71297 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-2408) 10/* Unnamed language 2 */ < 1587588218 946452 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.172 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: topology is pointless, resistance is futile. We are fixed point > 1587588788 188259 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Phile14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71331 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+3276) 10Created page with "'''Phile''' is an esolang by [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow]]. ==Syntax== Each line in Phile is one of the following: OPEN ''fname''; WRITE ''fname'' ''value''; OVERWRITE '..." > 1587588896 985595 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Phile14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71332&oldid=71331 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+99) 10 < 1587589033 452221 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1587589051 694397 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.172 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does a word for cold (an illness) in your languages have something in common not with being cold/chilled/frozen? < 1587589192 549724 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :We typically call the common cold "flunssa", which as a word is obviously related to influenza/flu, which we call "influenssa". < 1587589216 971660 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/flunssa < 1587589248 424072 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.172 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: interesting! < 1587589264 679774 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.172 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was afraid I caught a cold and I noted once more that in Russian it related to being in the cold toom roughly it translates as “a state related to having been in the cold earlier” < 1587589275 815919 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.172 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if it translates at all) < 1587589350 53639 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finnish does also have a cold-related synonym "vilustuminen", which is roughly "becoming cold" except not quite. < 1587589352 821411 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.172 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/toom/too, < 1587589373 85643 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.172 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, the details! < 1587589422 844906 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, "vilu" is specifically the sensation of feeling cold, not so much a low temperature in an absolute sense. < 1587589467 880624 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The latter would be "kylmä".) > 1587589527 23152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/RandomNameGenerator14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71333 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1208) 10Created page with "This program will output ten random letter combinations with a length of 5 to 8 characters. function gen(n) { 1587589578 166873 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71334&oldid=71151 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+143) 10 > 1587589597 25602 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71335&oldid=71334 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+14) 10/* Random name generator */ > 1587589607 365362 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/RandomNameGenerator14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71336&oldid=71333 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+11) 10 > 1587589618 348657 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71337&oldid=71335 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+12) 10 > 1587589636 298234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71338&oldid=71328 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+12) 10/* P */ > 1587589722 883012 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71339&oldid=71227 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+197) 10/* Phile */ < 1587590890 971536 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Excess Flood < 1587590916 371694 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587591959 599531 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do any of you fine esolangers know of an existing Forth that's based on SK calculus? < 1587591980 770663 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote one, but I don't want to add an entry to the wiki if it's already something that has been done. < 1587591989 850453 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://code.forder.cc/esolang/skiforth < 1587592046 213085 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587592046 251243 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587592075 226523 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587592087 2902 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister JOIN :#esoteric < 1587592090 268090 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera JOIN :#esoteric < 1587592109 404960 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1587592194 664347 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.172 PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: nice < 1587592224 40892 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you! I think it's pretty neat. I'm excited about the idea. Did you look at boolean.skf? < 1587592238 820584 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to be possible to bootstrap a normal forth implementation using sk calculus < 1587592257 433393 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :that file is the beginning of that < 1587592258 904692 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :provided you can simulate things like RAM. < 1587592273 344485 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that gets tricky < 1587592297 774430 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, theoretically possible, but probably a really slow way to go < 1587592359 264826 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587592378 414340 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably eventually introduce an integer type to speed up arithmetic, but I want to avoid doing that sort of thing as much as possible < 1587592466 826685 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a forth based on SK combinator calculus? that sounds like contradiction < 1587592471 685566 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have a link? < 1587592494 722685 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://code.forder.cc/esolang/skiforth previously posted. < 1587592496 806067 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1587592497 161451 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1587592715 344243 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1587593238 133119 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't get too excited, its basically unlambda in post-fix notation with the forth : ; syntax < 1587593249 228268 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.172 PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: Did you look at boolean.skf? => yeah < 1587593289 277752 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: cool, I want to write a standard lib to build up the language like a regular forth < 1587593296 845197 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.172 QUIT :Quit: gone too far < 1587593321 620096 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was surprised at how quickly I was able to get away from using function application < 1587593855 647360 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: ok, I wouldn't call that either unlambda or forth < 1587594371 770999 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I'm actually glad to hear you say that. I was trying to make something sufficiently different from both. < 1587594533 824879 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way the tokens are parsed and the : ; is very forth, hence the name. But under the hood it's totally different obviously. < 1587596240 670889 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:552e:4c4c:241c:4355 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1587599256 301787 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71340&oldid=71337 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-38) 10 > 1587599565 818805 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71341&oldid=71340 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+538) 10/* Languages */ < 1587601072 135645 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1587602327 252491 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF instruction extension14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71342&oldid=56223 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+317) 10 > 1587602408 584164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF instruction extension14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71343&oldid=71342 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+119) 10 < 1587604737 351788 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-hrqklbeiopcoyhlk QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1587605062 766144 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-nycsibqimjprfkan JOIN :#esoteric < 1587605230 366567 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is 12 kelvin more than the temperature in the room a reasonable temperature for a quad core Intel CPU? < 1587605574 183068 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That depends on the temperature in the room. < 1587605622 486251 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also on what the CPU is doing and other things. < 1587605676 578659 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Temperature in the room is 17 Celsius, and the temperature of the CPU says 29.0 Celsius. < 1587605827 160163 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Even when the temperature in the room is 21 Celsius, the CPU temperature seems to be from 10 to 12 kelvin higher.) < 1587605908 580626 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems like a reasonable temperature for a CPU. < 1587607528 916640 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite cool in fact < 1587607532 93124 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-nycsibqimjprfkan QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds > 1587607717 256257 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Control Flow14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71344&oldid=71313 5* 03A 5* (+28) 10/* Redo statement */ > 1587607820 946329 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Control Flow14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71345&oldid=71344 5* 03A 5* (+283) 10/* Higher-level Things */ > 1587607834 662861 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Control Flow14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71346&oldid=71345 5* 03A 5* (-283) 10/* Try-Catch-Finally statement */ < 1587609425 278103 :heroux!~heroux@507082E8.static.ziggozakelijk.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1587609738 839780 :heroux!~heroux@507082E8.static.ziggozakelijk.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1587609793 810190 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-lwbluebzyidwsqoj JOIN :#esoteric < 1587609896 865188 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:552e:4c4c:241c:4355 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587610178 842150 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:552e:4c4c:241c:4355 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1587610674 329228 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” > 1587610745 829004 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03OutRite 5* 10New user account < 1587610797 796679 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Be nice if that were how more CPUs were temp-wise > 1587611090 249806 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71347&oldid=71252 5* 03OutRite 5* (+234) 10/* Introductions */ < 1587611709 416292 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :there has got to be a better way of writing web applications than spinning up a damn interpreted language every time you wanna do something. < 1587611777 846392 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I miss CGI. < 1587611860 686427 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could use CGI. Fossil is written in C, so you could also use writing in C; Fossil also uses a special preprocessor so that you can include HTML codes directly in the C code without needing extra quoting and that stuff like you normally do in C. < 1587611888 845659 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :FastCGI seems to have been "abandoned" standard-wise. < 1587611897 1553 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I need support for server sent events. < 1587611999 684161 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you need support for server sent events, a web application is probably the wrong way to do it. < 1587612062 200426 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server-sent_events < 1587612152 522028 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :A web application is still probably the wrong way to do things like that. < 1587612259 188687 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're probably right: I considered wrapping an HTTP gateway around a raw TCP server. < 1587613726 308256 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:1838:88b7:248f:9a0b JOIN :#esoteric < 1587614043 311742 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:1838:88b7:248f:9a0b QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1587615425 355951 :wlp1s1!iczero@hellomouse/dev/iczero PART #esoteric :"Leaving" > 1587617632 41702 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Durkenheimer 5* 10New user account < 1587618051 929014 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :I honestly don't _get_ some of the FastCGI-like stuff < 1587618074 494423 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of them are basically running HTTP semantics, over a socket, with just an arbitrarily different protocol < 1587618090 31694 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :At which point... why not just do HTTP with the expectation you'll have a reverse proxy in front? < 1587618108 813003 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're fully expecting a reverse proxy to be in play, an acceptable HTTP implementation is _not that hard_ > 1587619310 878077 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07AAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71348&oldid=70455 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+6) 10how about this design < 1587620202 840655 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:1838:88b7:248f:9a0b JOIN :#esoteric > 1587620207 632715 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07AAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71349&oldid=71348 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+298) 10/* Examples */ truth-machine < 1587620489 842195 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:1838:88b7:248f:9a0b QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds > 1587623134 986321 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07AAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71350&oldid=71349 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+35) 10/* Examples */ oops i almost forgot output command < 1587623181 227892 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587624802 363654 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587625112 846198 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:e439:da97:621d:af0f JOIN :#esoteric < 1587625142 723882 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have started making up a set of Magic: the Gathering cards in a TeXnicard database, which is available at: http://zzo38computer.org/mtg/zivstr.db < 1587625187 870043 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5831:9b5b:7ccd:f008 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587625188 903999 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It is a SQLite database, so it can also be opened by the SQLite command line, although it is probably more useful to open it using TeXnicard.) < 1587625382 842346 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:e439:da97:621d:af0f QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1587625394 729175 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5831:9b5b:7ccd:f008 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587625409 11322 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5831:9b5b:7ccd:f008 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587625753 813981 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1587626825 633876 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587626843 836669 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1587626995 650828 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Client Quit > 1587628714 929723 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Modulo14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71351&oldid=71314 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+65) 10 < 1587629188 265571 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric > 1587630116 275364 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nullary14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71352&oldid=46955 5* 03DanielCristofani 5* (+52) 10/* See Also */ < 1587630906 85835 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587631012 90373 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1587633096 761004 :xelxebar_!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1587633103 663084 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1587633169 54135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Wzkchem5 5* 10New user account < 1587633454 334673 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1587633912 641899 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71353&oldid=71347 5* 03Wzkchem5 5* (+172) 10 > 1587633920 264903 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07AAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71354&oldid=71350 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+3) 10/* Examples */ > 1587633970 836213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71355&oldid=71353 5* 03Wzkchem5 5* (+58) 10 < 1587635564 316635 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587635633 263872 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587635644 651108 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1587636306 334774 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587637853 990809 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 JOIN :#esoteric > 1587638994 815054 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07AAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71356&oldid=71354 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+0) 10/* Examples */ right parenthesis! < 1587639475 999828 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric > 1587639488 847417 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:YamTokTpaFa14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71357&oldid=68930 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+18) 10 > 1587640042 820201 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:YamTokTpaFa/A14!4 study14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71358 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+386) 10Created page with "== mnemonic == OUT INX GO2 DLB SKP SXB SXF END BDS EDS RET CAL FGT INC DEC STR CSN CEN CSR CER CLR ABA AAC CN0 CN1 CN2 CN3 LXN VAX SUM DIF PRD AND XOR CW2 CW1 PM1 PM2 Can tho..." < 1587641173 325275 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are some dope mnemonics < 1587641182 486731 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even think about adding numbers to my mnemonics < 1587641192 167206 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it opens a whole new spectrum to code obfuscation < 1587644871 406443 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587645587 344494 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587646153 611537 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.228.99 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587646528 313510 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587648656 458981 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587648885 425370 :relrod!~relrod@redhat/relrod QUIT :Changing host < 1587648885 425432 :relrod!~relrod@redhat/ansible.staff.relrod JOIN :#esoteric < 1587648961 65789 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking about the categories of monads on the finite categories 1, 2, 3, etc < 1587648980 347316 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems these categories form (n-1) dimensional hypercubes < 1587650323 399320 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.228.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: how 1, 2, 3 are defined, are they just discrete categories on n objects or something more interesting? (can’t find anywhere for some reason) < 1587650436 890371 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1587650460 401044 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.228.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the morning I thought about counting all DAGs having only a single automorphism. Or maybe posets instead of DAGs, whichever would come easier < 1587650557 725153 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1587650584 841771 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.228.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it seems 1, 2, 3 should not be discrete, or any endofunctor would be a monad and they won’t form cubes?.. > 1587650690 680158 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Happy Fantasy14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71359 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+1426) 10+[[Happy Fantasy]] > 1587650696 29392 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71360&oldid=71338 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+20) 10+[[Happy Fantasy]] > 1587650700 799498 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Hakerh40014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71361&oldid=71329 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+20) 10+[[Happy Fantasy]] < 1587650732 759517 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1587650953 640155 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: 3 for example has objects {0,1,2} and looks like 0 -> 1 -> 2 < 1587651180 10682 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(plus identities and composits) < 1587651435 926549 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1587651669 392157 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.228.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: ah, thanks! Linear orders, then? < 1587651690 809164 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah! < 1587651806 967255 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.228.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, a functor is a monotone function, and a monad… let me see… < 1587652079 738750 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have x <= f(x) and f(f(x)) <= f(x) for all x < 1587652087 932666 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which imply f(x) = f(f(x)) < 1587652102 553692 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, f is monotone, increasing, and idempotent < 1587652260 337751 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for a poset this is known as a closure operator) < 1587652291 812583 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.228.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what functors wouldn’t be a monad in this case? Hm maybe I shouldn’t try to think one up for 3, maybe 4 or 5 would be needed? < 1587652304 413892 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an example for 2 < 1587652314 86119 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you map everything to 0 < 1587652323 277210 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a functor but not a monad < 1587652334 784171 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587652374 123691 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.228.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah hmmm I can’t see what condition does it break < 1587652399 674094 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.228.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it’s idempotent at least < 1587652423 344773 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :We need the property that x <= f(x) < 1587652435 843074 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But 1 > f(1) = 0 < 1587652442 422712 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.228.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I parsed it the wrong way < 1587652453 354299 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.228.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I get what did you call increasing < 1587652469 601898 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.228.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that’s interesting! < 1587652480 102553 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen that property called extensive < 1587652488 738054 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.228.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think I glimpse already how does it make cubes < 1587652732 131624 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.228.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, we should increment each of 0, …, n−1 some steps up, but at the same time leave a segment at the top intact. Hm, no, I don’t see cubes yet. That should somehow give us 2^(n−1) possibilities but that seems too many atm < 1587652763 887220 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many vertices does an n-dimensional hypercube have < 1587653237 147766 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5831:9b5b:7ccd:f008 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1587653257 318726 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1587653263 611417 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, what's a monad in the category of monads in some category? < 1587653297 23168 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :For these categories, the category of monads is a poset so this should be not too tricky < 1587653635 247601 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if a monad in the category of monads works out to be a "commutative monad" in the same way as a monoid in the category of monoids is a commutative monoid < 1587654188 193223 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the answer to that is "no" < 1587654199 709728 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monad(Monad(2)) is a poset with seven elements, I think < 1587654524 10520 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587654791 702269 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:d1e4:94fc:5e34:251a PRIVMSG #esoteric :A monad on a preorder is a closure operator. < 1587654818 271531 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.228.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric : How many vertices does an n-dimensional hypercube have => ah I should have written 2^n but that’s even more than 2^(n−1) so I don’t yet see how could we have that many different monads there. I’ll draw some pictures later and then I think I’ll see < 1587655042 532800 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe we have 2^(n-1) monads < 1587655187 496282 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1587655286 397232 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1587655327 87243 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:d1e4:94fc:5e34:251a PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a 2^n directed hypercube? < 1587655338 198534 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the linear order of n elements < 1587655464 142217 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:d1e4:94fc:5e34:251a PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not 2^n? < 1587655479 527030 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1587655479 736972 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:d1e4:94fc:5e34:251a PRIVMSG #esoteric :Choose any subset, and let those be the closed elements < 1587655573 212894 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:d1e4:94fc:5e34:251a PRIVMSG #esoteric :Closure operators on a partially ordered set are uniquely determined by the set of closed elements < 1587655577 973036 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take the linear order on {0,1,2}. There are four monads on that, which I have written as 012, 022, 112, 222 < 1587655647 161918 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:d1e4:94fc:5e34:251a PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, hmm < 1587655668 157581 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can't take the empty set, and we must include the top element as closed < 1587655685 886530 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:d1e4:94fc:5e34:251a PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1587655703 673941 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:d1e4:94fc:5e34:251a PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the forced inclusion of the top that divides the number of options in two < 1587655710 135646 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1587656001 10432 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That implies we can't take the empty set < 1587656104 576000 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think more generally, for any set of elements, they must have a "least common closure" < 1587656183 461056 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1587656500 912046 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 JOIN :#esoteric > 1587657107 369134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Stackint14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71362 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1805) 10Created page with "'''Stackint''' is an esolang by [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow]]. Its only method of storage is, as its name suggests, a stack of integers. ==Memory model== Stackint uses an a..." > 1587657150 583213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71363&oldid=71341 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+38) 10 > 1587657184 156532 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71364&oldid=71360 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+15) 10/* S */ < 1587658763 269171 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1587658812 391357 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5831:9b5b:7ccd:f008 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587659149 318149 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5831:9b5b:7ccd:f008 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1587659808 205493 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5831:9b5b:7ccd:f008 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587659950 376857 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:cd6b:ee40:bbb6:7c3d JOIN :#esoteric < 1587660178 25822 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5831:9b5b:7ccd:f008 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds > 1587660290 609804 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Stackint14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71365 5* 03Willicoder 5* (+117) 10Created page with "How would I print anything? ~~~~" > 1587660535 196252 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Asm2bf14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71366&oldid=71213 5* 03Palaiologos 5* (-80) 10discord server link < 1587660673 676666 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:cd6b:ee40:bbb6:7c3d QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1587661178 78456 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FarTooGeneral14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71367&oldid=71322 5* 03Baidicoot 5* (+702) 10 > 1587661312 911445 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FarTooGeneral14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71368&oldid=71367 5* 03Baidicoot 5* (+32) 10/* Extensions */ > 1587661370 751212 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FarTooGeneral14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71369&oldid=71368 5* 03Baidicoot 5* (+38) 10/* Extensions */ > 1587661387 747548 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FarTooGeneral14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71370&oldid=71369 5* 03Baidicoot 5* (+4) 10/* Extensions */ > 1587661419 126829 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FarTooGeneral14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71371&oldid=71370 5* 03Baidicoot 5* (+13) 10/* Extensions */ > 1587661747 637795 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Stackint14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71372&oldid=71365 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+257) 10 > 1587661781 72794 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Stackint14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71373&oldid=71362 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+21) 10/* Examples */ > 1587661837 342448 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07List of quines14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71374&oldid=70653 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+25) 10/* Real Quines */ > /* Stackint */ < 1587662065 545254 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: leaving > 1587662383 771674 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71375&oldid=71330 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+391) 10/* Package dependencies */ > 1587662438 180261 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71376&oldid=71375 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-3783) 10/* Unnamed language 1 */ > 1587662497 946809 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Packlang14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71377 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+3899) 10Created page with "'''Packlang''' is an esolang by [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow]]. ==Packages== Packages define a function and all variables it will need. ==Variables== To define a variable o..." > 1587662528 604123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Stackint14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71378&oldid=71373 5* 03Willicoder 5* (+135) 10 > 1587662536 420468 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71379&oldid=71363 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+69) 10 > 1587662567 500818 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71380&oldid=71364 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+15) 10/* P */ + [[Packlang]] > 1587662733 812781 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Willicoder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71381&oldid=71266 5* 03Willicoder 5* (+17) 10 > 1587662788 329029 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Willicoder14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71382&oldid=71381 5* 03Willicoder 5* (-5) 10 < 1587662843 878861 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:cd6b:ee40:bbb6:7c3d JOIN :#esoteric < 1587662866 221202 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't get to figuring out what is the difference between ##x and #x and even ###x channels on freenode, someone willing to explain? < 1587662895 829820 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from what I know, ##x channels don't have a strict topic, but for instance this channel doesn't have a strict topic too, but it's not prefixed with ## < 1587662986 302327 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :recall that Freenode is ostensibly a resource for open source software projects, not a general chat platform < 1587662997 962934 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Channels on freenode fall into one of two categories. Primary channels, which begin with a single # character, are reserved for on-topic projects. If you’d like to take over one of these channels, then you’ll need to be associated in some way with the project in question. Topical, or ‘about’ channels, begin with two # characters, and these are allocated on a first-come, first-served basis to the < 1587662999 975359 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : :1:36: error: parse error on input ‘of’ < 1587663003 941573 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :first person who registers it with ChanServ. < 1587663087 575508 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory all channels that start with a single # should be related to an open source software project of the same name < 1587663106 169404 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :however there are many grandfathered exceptions < 1587663140 841917 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:cd6b:ee40:bbb6:7c3d QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1587663147 25566 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not aware of a special meaning for ###, I imagine it would be treated the same as ## as far as network-wide policy goes > 1587663147 972316 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Stackint14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71383&oldid=71372 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+316) 10 < 1587663162 981012 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :and none of this has any direct relation to how strictly the ops of the channel enforce any stated topic < 1587663199 263583 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think off-topic chat in a #-channel puts you at risk of losing it or anything < 1587663345 780496 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair point < 1587663520 429631 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1587663533 96889 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:cd6b:ee40:bbb6:7c3d JOIN :#esoteric > 1587664089 488376 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Hello14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71384&oldid=20039 5* 03Willicoder 5* (+68) 10 > 1587664099 541448 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Hello14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71385&oldid=71384 5* 03Willicoder 5* (+90) 10 > 1587664295 468249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Stackint14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71386&oldid=71383 5* 03Willicoder 5* (+119) 10 < 1587664848 863412 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel in particular probably works out fine as far as policy goes, considering we are _in fact_, not just de jure, associated with esolangs.org < 1587665244 437005 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1587665262 483502 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :and #trains is the official project channel of https://github.com/lexande/trainbot < 1587665265 487703 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1587665266 670196 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would make a good case for #esolangs < 1587665288 651680 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But as far as I'm aware nobody's has been asking the question. < 1587665298 249883 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(loudly enough to matter) > 1587665562 874582 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Stackint14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71387&oldid=71378 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+34) 10/* Commands */ < 1587665598 78434 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have comments about my (incomplete) set of Magic: the Gathering cards? I would also want the help with rendering templates (especially graphics and fonts). < 1587665792 1428 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may also later write a export template for HTML, although I want to fix it so that if CSS is disabled then the text will be visible and if enabled (and implemented) then it can display the icons. < 1587665938 726490 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: anything? < 1587665938 928872 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: the guy complains how the lisp code alone. the pattern is < 1587666264 357579 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I added into the TeXnicard documentation about a common/ subdirectory for export templates, which contains files associated with the exported files for all card sets. For example, if you are exporting HTML, then icons and CSS may be included here; if you are exporting TeX, you may put a macro file here. < 1587666365 871017 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :MSE has the copy_file function, although it requires the file to be copied for each exported card set. > 1587666824 633343 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07+-14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71388&oldid=70555 5* 03Willicoder 5* (+4) 10 < 1587668630 29595 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1587673727 533076 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1587674615 672990 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-lwbluebzyidwsqoj QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1587674660 510871 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-qivqygmcrqxtoshr JOIN :#esoteric < 1587675089 744174 :heroux_!~heroux@507082E8.static.ziggozakelijk.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1587675320 993950 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-qivqygmcrqxtoshr QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1587675322 681874 :heroux_!~heroux@507082E8.static.ziggozakelijk.nl NICK :heroux < 1587675574 345953 :heroux!~heroux@507082E8.static.ziggozakelijk.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1587675642 628506 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-exbgkgzwabkhhmzs JOIN :#esoteric < 1587678798 797748 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587678959 309061 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587678966 444343 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1587679494 858067 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1587679682 483318 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1587680622 987784 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:cd6b:ee40:bbb6:7c3d QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587680680 981551 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.228.99 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587681627 968148 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not the only SQLite user who wants NNTP access to their forum; it look like there is one other guy too, who like to do so. < 1587681728 16251 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it your brother? < 1587681839 565183 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1587681847 184970 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is some other guy that I don't know. < 1587683076 829630 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1587683946 864468 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587686797 26027 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1587687375 475670 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :gforth's socket library is surprisingly straightforward. < 1587690584 451567 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1587690636 433965 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1587695419 10101 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh? < 1587695623 916232 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:ac64:76f4:c836:e83b JOIN :#esoteric < 1587695900 865327 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:ac64:76f4:c836:e83b QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds > 1587698155 365644 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07COVID-1914]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71389 5* 03Wzkchem5 5* (+12162) 10Created page with "The '''Computation-Oriented Virtual Infection of Disks, version 2019 (COVID-19)''' is an esoteric programming language. It ''infects'' the hard drive by making copies of the s..." < 1587700439 953899 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's literally just "create a socket, pass around a buffer, receive into that buffer, do stuff with the buffer." < 1587702275 18068 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's rather straightforward. > 1587706028 894780 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[071+/Snippets14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71390 5* 03TwilightSparkle 5* (+98) 10Created page with "== Easy == == Medium == == Hard == == Insane == == Obviously Medium-Graded == == Legendary ==" < 1587710322 574615 :dnm!sid401311@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jitcmpemkqzepcqv PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hey there! LTNS. > 1587711233 908081 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Unified HQ9+14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71391&oldid=65987 5* 03Cortex 5* (+155) 10Added a command from CHIQRSX9+ < 1587711615 345771 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1587712019 85224 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587712059 16483 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1587712176 919960 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:455:2acc:3450:3470 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587712924 715355 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi dnm < 1587713035 112554 :dnm!sid401311@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jitcmpemkqzepcqv PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: How goes it? < 1587713226 788595 :xelxebar_!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in < 1587713246 769471 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1587713273 880128 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :p. unenergetic nowadays < 1587713688 548981 :dnm!sid401311@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jitcmpemkqzepcqv PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Ah. Understandable. How are you doing with the whole COVID-19 lockdown? < 1587713801 840528 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I'm not sure I should talk about it in here. < 1587713895 103765 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been staying at home for about a month and a half. < 1587713944 971435 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess a bit longer than that. < 1587720079 817424 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric > 1587721641 508244 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Modulo14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71392 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+226) 10Created page with "== Missing commands == There are no commands yet, because I need to figure out how to search commands with args from raw string in Python 3. --~~~~" > 1587721887 962090 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07COVID-1914]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71393&oldid=71389 5* 03Wzkchem5 5* (-156) 10 < 1587722002 465119 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds > 1587722031 930407 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:COVID-1914]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71394 5* 03Wzkchem5 5* (+279) 10Created page with "Hello, I'm the original author wzkchem5. I'm working on writing a 99 bottles of beer program using COVID-19. The page will only be made officially public after the 99 bottles..." < 1587722069 117261 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric > 1587722083 974646 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Wzkchem514]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71395 5* 03Wzkchem5 5* (+37) 10Created page with "This page is intentionally left blank" < 1587727147 358426 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587727309 843290 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1587727314 907254 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1587728008 121380 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587729512 463971 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587729523 94925 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, can markov chains replace women? < 1587729523 330789 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: take define-syntax, make your bfasm be a backend. i'm sure they've got plans for it. :p < 1587729552 993381 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow! fungot mentioned bfasm < 1587729553 211585 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: it's the internet. the man sounds like a good, clean scheme parser written in c. < 1587729559 24216 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't believe < 1587730882 399803 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.67 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587730918 736550 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1587731202 262896 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :any thoughts on the substrings of the thue morse sequence? > 1587732103 155757 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Unified HQ9+14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71396&oldid=71391 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+2) 10add 1,3 in name < 1587732279 81507 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:455:2acc:3450:3470 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587733196 987076 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:455:2acc:3450:3470 JOIN :#esoteric > 1587733249 130888 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Unified HQ9+14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71397&oldid=71396 5* 03Willicoder 5* (-77) 10 < 1587733295 443063 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.83.167.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1587733433 561890 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.67 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds > 1587733522 509719 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Unified HQ9+14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71398&oldid=71397 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+103) 10cat adds < 1587734552 287596 :Phoenix_Rising26!~frank@154.70.152.121 JOIN :#esoteric > 1587734688 622793 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07The Past14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71399 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+431) 10Created page with "'''The Past''' is a time-traveling esolang by [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow]]. ==Memory model== The Past uses an arbitrary-size signed integer accumulator. ==Commands== {| c..." > 1587734843 390483 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07The Past14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71400&oldid=71399 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10 > 1587734945 35420 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:The Past14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71401 5* 03Willicoder 5* (+130) 10Created page with "How would the go back command even work? ~~~~" < 1587735067 328103 :Phoenix_Rising26!~frank@154.70.152.121 PART :#esoteric > 1587735541 811664 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07W (A)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71402&oldid=70237 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+11) 10replace deleted repo with clone > 1587735543 669858 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Resource14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71403&oldid=68261 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+11) 10replace deleted repo with clone > 1587735545 878297 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tq14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71404&oldid=69732 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+11) 10replace deleted repo with clone > 1587736447 31283 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:The Past14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71405&oldid=71401 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+284) 10 > 1587737622 58419 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Stopwatch14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71406 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+154) 10Created page with "What's the difference between a step and a split? ~~~~" > 1587737684 969107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07AAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! Turing-completeness proof14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71407 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+5110) 10I think I have perfectly made the proof. > 1587737792 960209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07AAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71408&oldid=71356 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+178) 10 > 1587737818 928592 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07AAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71409&oldid=71408 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+0) 10WTF hyphen. > 1587737931 574332 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:PureBrainz14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71410 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+156) 10Created page with "Do you currently have a Python interpreter written? ~~~~" > 1587738075 271854 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07AAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! Turing-completeness proof14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71411&oldid=71407 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+196) 10/* Assumptions */ assign clarification < 1587738834 945050 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1587739394 2637 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Modulo14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71412&oldid=71392 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+196) 10 < 1587740537 176405 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587740890 161254 :LKoen_!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1587741074 335615 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1587741602 842428 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric > 1587741793 884421 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:I like frog14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71413&oldid=71156 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+691) 10 < 1587741815 333100 :LKoen_!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1587742234 92761 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: http://freenode.net/kb/answer/namespaces < 1587742342 714433 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that naming policy is enforced only when the ops need to interfere in who owns a channel, typically in taking over unused old channel names < 1587742432 542677 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the policy is mostly just a suggestion, and many channels go against it < 1587744279 341707 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1587748234 633434 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw someone's solution to sorites paradox is that it remains a heap as long as some of the sand is on top of the other sand < 1587748253 108326 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:455:2acc:3450:3470 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587748912 378904 :Grimpoteuthis!~user@181.59.76.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587748946 425135 :Grimpoteuthis!~user@181.59.76.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1587749613 834427 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello . < 1587749865 301771 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1587749942 330469 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:455:2acc:3450:3470 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587750019 138539 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:455:2acc:3450:3470 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587750092 971603 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:455:2acc:3450:3470 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587750711 690597 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:455:2acc:3450:3470 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587751029 672256 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know the name for what I'm doing with combinators here? https://wiki.forder.cc/wiki/Combinators < 1587751085 289020 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a better way to approach it? < 1587751127 360507 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm basically poking around for binary operators on subsets of combinators that form quasigroups, semigroups, maybe even a group? < 1587751245 700458 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :question #4 at the bottom is basically the whole point < 1587751466 460000 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :my takeaway from this page is that I hate postfix notation for combinatory logic < 1587751597 845619 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :postfix notation is deceptively simple. < 1587751680 458704 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. is a cute puzzle... if you let T = (\x. x x) (\P x y. (\x. x x) P y x) then T x y ->> T y x. (Now do the abstraction elminiation and be happy.) < 1587751739 985265 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:455:2acc:3450:3470 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587751761 302276 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: cool! < 1587751811 903243 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just dipping my toe in the water with combinators. Still have a lot to learn. < 1587751948 833002 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think 3. is a very interesting question too. I have an intuitive feel for it, but haven't formalized it yet. < 1587752012 92142 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. is standard pairing: (\x y p. p x y) < 1587752020 607030 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand 3. < 1587752103 721475 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :4. probably has some silly (artificial) solution that embeds both ` and a representation of the starting term < 1587752253 295909 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 is stating when is <*> closed under application < 1587752263 770969 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what does that mean? < 1587752267 771257 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :By definition it's closed under * < 1587752313 468300 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :if x, y are in <*> when is (xy) in <*> where the operation there is application, not * < 1587752335 111939 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what about silly things like \x y. x y < 1587752363 947759 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is, a deliberately binary version of I) < 1587752423 138142 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's call that I*, is actually pretty weird. For x, y in , x*y is always recursive < 1587752438 785887 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it just blows up my interpretter whenever I try to compute it < 1587752439 860473 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1587752444 574521 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's just ` really < 1587752478 329871 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe I'm thinking of I** < 1587752482 27892 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget which one I tried < 1587752499 100892 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So okay, 3 may be a difficult question... but why is it interesting? < 1587752532 45418 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm interested in doing subturing computation in a context closer to a group < 1587752558 311268 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 isn't terribly important, but it'd be nice to have < 1587752578 661746 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way I could generate the set <*>, then the group operation would just be regular function application < 1587752591 724675 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a quasigroup, or whatever < 1587752600 156394 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :since associativity is probably a no go with any useful computation < 1587752612 50883 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :just some way to do algebra on programs < 1587752670 675594 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :associativity moves you close to string rewriting (semi-Thue systems). < 1587752691 337485 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which are Turing-complete but also awkward to actually use. < 1587752713 907640 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been a long time since I've looked at semi-Thue systems. Lemme read the wiki real quick < 1587752763 148300 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I see. Yeah associativity would basically give you a semi-thue system < 1587752831 321846 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :The crucial thing I want is for all x in <*> to have x^-1 in <*> where xx^(-1) = e < 1587752841 612831 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :not necessarily matching on the left and right sides < 1587752876 317386 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :either under the * operation, or under application (which I don't think is possible) < 1587753001 385500 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :and x^(-1) unique of course < 1587753065 336381 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe it's called a quasigroup < 1587753297 452723 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect this can be done but probably not in a satisfactory way; what I'd try is write a combinator that can distinguish S, K, and itself, and basically does symbolic evaluation on top of that. So... eww. < 1587753401 67478 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, sounds unsatisfactory. I'm going to spend some time exploring subsets of combinators and see what I can come up with. Even if I don't get to the point of doing useful computation, it would be cool to find something isomorphic to some algebraic structures < 1587753605 211707 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you work at the level of quarks and gluons, don't be surprised when you have to build atoms. < 1587754723 959476 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:455:2acc:3450:3470 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587755161 304500 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :touche < 1587755214 305072 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1587755255 660975 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: but you don't have to enjoy it < 1587755500 161352 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :who said anything about enjoying it. :P < 1587756033 320360 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:455:2acc:3450:3470 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587756771 108299 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1587757404 717887 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you tried the combinator birds book, to mock a mockingbird < 1587757481 321962 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel like any inverse would work only a set that is not turing complete < 1587758158 841337 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1587759170 806044 :Sei!~sever@2a01cb0504bc2c00941ac470cdb2666a.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1587759214 822445 :Sei!~sever@2a01cb0504bc2c00941ac470cdb2666a.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr PART :#esoteric < 1587763194 402283 :Grimpoteuthis!~user@181.59.76.52 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1587763683 688819 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: rebooting < 1587764060 542283 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am trying to figure out how to make the random pack function in TeXnicard. I have some ideas, but I thought one thing that would be needed is to be able to pair cards together so that one card requires or excludes another card or alters the probability of including that other card (or group of cards), but I am not sure what to do about that. < 1587764066 971637 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have some ideas? < 1587764102 570284 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1587766955 268725 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1587767175 276689 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1587770211 781799 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1587770494 367274 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1587770533 852473 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587771165 851332 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1587771176 396205 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.83.167.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1587771220 147601 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587771311 303240 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1587771331 730393 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587771350 164528 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1587771382 48396 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587771401 758600 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1587771956 309541 :noomy!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony NICK :amnesiac > 1587771982 686381 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71414&oldid=71376 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+221) 10 < 1587774244 336394 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many points you earn in the BSD boggle game? < 1587774828 520167 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1587775294 367591 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1587775415 297158 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1587775572 708538 :amnesiac!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony NICK :noomy < 1587776363 438399 :Grimpoteuthis!~user@181.59.76.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587776399 102420 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587776411 744017 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu JOIN :#esoteric < 1587777083 610652 :Grimpoteuthis!~user@181.59.76.52 PART #esoteric :"ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3)" < 1587777899 346592 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1587777992 810967 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1587780248 78547 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1587781511 303150 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I added the temperature in the status window < 1587781531 885382 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it includes: temperature, mail, system load average, memory usage, and date/time. < 1587782011 267306 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :PostgreSQL supports ORDER BY in non-window aggregate functions, and is something I wanted to have in SQLite too, since it is useful with some aggregate functions. If ORDER BY can be used in non-window aggregate functions, then FIRST_VALUE, LAST_VALUE, and NTH_VALUE should also be usable as aggregate functions, too. < 1587785505 200592 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587785584 211773 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1587787187 133999 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587791942 839675 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(dup == =)?dup == = < 1587791955 124847 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You must put a line break in place of the question mark. < 1587794770 6950 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1587794788 758634 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like Solar Hijri calendar? < 1587798595 234798 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Does your version of curl have the double-EOF bug fix yet? < 1587799702 743379 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1587799866 957092 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1587800478 816588 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds > 1587802156 60440 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Happy Fantasy14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71415&oldid=71359 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+3) 10 > 1587802476 486761 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Gummy Bear14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71416&oldid=71327 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+11) 10/* Output */ < 1587803534 822566 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587806417 186455 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-b0486e-15.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1587806456 698440 :rodgort!~rodgort@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1587806489 768550 :rodgort!~rodgort@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1587806578 505490 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587806683 119966 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587807756 308399 :aloril!~aloril@83-148-239-202.dynamic.lounea.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1587808175 348086 :aloril!~aloril@83-148-239-202.dynamic.lounea.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1587808771 272501 :aloril!~aloril@83-148-239-202.dynamic.lounea.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1587812108 255914 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587813665 481248 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587813836 804086 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1587813841 860277 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1587815054 130729 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1587815193 986963 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:e857:d1c1:bc26:324e JOIN :#esoteric < 1587815405 319964 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:455:2acc:3450:3470 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds > 1587816878 646210 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71417&oldid=71379 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+56) 10/* Languages */ > 1587817367 698002 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71418&oldid=71414 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+665) 10 > 1587819542 74078 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Zzo3814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71419&oldid=69337 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+434) 10/* I think I have proven A14!4 to be Turing-complete. */ new section < 1587819618 696677 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think it probably does, if I remember right what the bug was. At least a single EOF on stdin is enough when pasting to ix.io. < 1587820192 782283 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587820233 523720 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587820586 75252 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.83.167.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1587822229 858812 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1587824205 458153 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello all < 1587824706 78503 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.83.167.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi! < 1587824709 882980 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.83.167.dynamic.ufanet.ru NICK :arseniiv < 1587825148 988860 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.167.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuma-themed impossible(?) puzzle: suppose you have N types of balls and an endless sequence Z → {1, ..., N} of them, such that a ball at each position is picked uniformly at random independent of all others. You can insert a ball of your choice between the 0th and 1st places in this sequence, and then if that makes a sequence of 3 or more balls of the same kind, they vanish, the sequence collapses and the same check (are there 3 or mo < 1587825149 66862 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.167.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :re balls of the same kind at the cut position) happens again and again if necessary. What is the mean count of vanishes? vanished balls? < 1587825291 550269 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is that a function from Z, not N? < 1587825313 637090 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.167.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :at first I thought to allow placing a ball at any position, but I think this would make the problem ill-posed: I’d suppose there would be a possibility to make any count of vanishes but obviously not an infinite one < 1587825348 499866 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem with using Z being that you have to specify what happens to the indices after removal < 1587825435 377829 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.167.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: two one-sided subsequences after the cut should then concatenate back < 1587825476 233892 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.167.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as in this case we remember the position of the cut point, we could put zeroth index anywhere we like < 1587825617 978839 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah I misunderstood... < 1587825656 722502 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you have 1122 and place a ball in the middle, you get two choices... which one do you pick? < 1587825672 176734 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.167.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :about N instead of Z: hmm I think that wouldn’t be neat enough; in the game if you happen to remove balls from the end of the chain, and there is a cluster of ≥3 balls right near them, that cluster won’t wanish, but in this formulation it would (and if it wouldn’t, that would be a boring setting) < 1587825731 55502 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's okay, I though it would collapse once and then you'd get to pick another ball < 1587825744 127653 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't read properly < 1587825769 269303 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thought (nor type, apparently.) < 1587825796 127873 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.167.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : so if you have 1122 and place a ball in the middle, you get two choices... which one do you pick? => hm well maybe then we should first consider the setting where the ball is picked randomly not by us, and again uniformly of course < 1587825821 195526 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically... don't place any ball at all < 1587825843 358751 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.167.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I think I word such questions in not the most understandable way too < 1587825856 415750 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.167.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah < 1587825870 759489 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"also I think...": I think you phrased that concern perfectly. < 1587825920 159836 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.167.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should name things more often < 1587825953 646468 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.167.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I would backlink to them instead of using ambiguous anaphoric pronouns < 1587826008 91916 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But hmm. The first collapse is special, but after that we're always faced with a random sequence that has a 1/(N-1) chance of equal balls in the middle instead of 1/N. So this should be quite feasible. < 1587826133 652695 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.167.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :don’t forget we need more than two, so we can’t just compare the ends < 1587826180 244804 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh sure but that's not a huge deal. < 1587826210 362389 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.167.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw I have no solution to this, of course. I wanted to announce I won the main game mode in Zuma’s Revenge, but then I thought: wait, that can be made more on-topic < 1587826219 111975 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The probability that the first collapse happens should be (1 + (N-1)/N + (N-1)^2/N^2)/N^3, and for subsequent collapses it's (1 + (N-1)/N + (N-1)^2/N^2)/((N-1)N^2) instead. < 1587826251 198161 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.167.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hoped I’d come up with something less tractable :D < 1587826331 110942 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :full notes ;-) http://paste.debian.net/1142975/ < 1587826350 247899 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, that's for four. < 1587826353 618605 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid fenceposts < 1587826378 635693 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the probabilities should be (1 + (N-1)/N)/N^2 and (1 + (N-1)/N)/((N-1)N) instead. < 1587826435 731216 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? fencepost blaming < 1587826438 87683 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :fencepost blaming? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1587826606 544901 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically two things happen here: a) rather than looking at the colors, look at whether adjacent balls have the same color b) after a collapse, there are only N-1 possible colors for the two adjacent balls, but otherwise they are still uniformly random. So the probability of equality increases to the aforementioned 1/(N-1) instead of 1/N at that one place. < 1587826758 760578 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2n^2 - 3n + 1)/(n^4 - n^3 - 2n^2 + n) <-- look at this beauty (is it correct? who knows. it might be.) < 1587826816 572050 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's for the expected number of collapses < 1587826842 917045 :haavard!root@haavard.me QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587826910 53096 :haavard!root@haavard.me JOIN :#esoteric < 1587827019 698111 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny, we cannot simply multiply that by 1 + 2/(1-1/n) to get the expected number of balls removed, because only one of the two cases captured in (1 + (N-1)/N)/N^2 can be extended to both sides. < 1587827031 592709 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm mixing capital and lower case n, sorry.) < 1587827169 332861 :sparr!~sparr@pdpc/supporter/active/sparr QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587827169 410713 :myndzi!myndzi@tetrisguide.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1587827187 859590 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer the lower case one, honestly, reserving the upper case one for the natural numbers. < 1587827204 91247 :sparr!~sparr@2604:a880:800:10::103:f001 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587827292 336904 :divergence!~div@212.102.40.74 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587827368 817920 :diverger!~div@193.9.112.184 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1587827488 250961 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.167.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah I forgot there would be conflation in ASCII < 1587827523 880696 :myndzi!myndzi@tetrisguide.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1587827553 362080 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? prefixes < 1587827554 629117 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ , bfbot =. < 1587827567 763856 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^celebrate < 1587827567 816688 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ \m/ \m/ \o_ c.c _o/ \m/ \m/ ಠ_ಠ \o/ c.c |o/ < 1587827579 706782 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.167.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and ℕ renders poorly in my client, and it’s 5 keypresses to input with my AHK script, so I almost never use it) < 1587827581 399831 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi is still broken it seems < 1587827599 605396 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.167.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ 1+1 < 1587827610 289681 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric : \o/ < 1587827651 845749 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar lowi < 1587827653 342063 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOWI 251450Z VRB03KT 9999 FEW060 SCT070 BKN100 21/04 Q1007 NOSIG > 1587827942 122584 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71420&oldid=71418 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+259) 10/* Functions */ > 1587828051 818774 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71421&oldid=71380 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+20) 10/* F */ add [[function x(y)]] > 1587828559 658582 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71422&oldid=70490 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+358) 10/* Packlang */ > 1587828757 948340 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71423&oldid=71422 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+192) 10/* Stackint */ > 1587828810 494039 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71424&oldid=71417 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-1) 10/* Languages */ > 1587829341 528222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71425&oldid=71423 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1361) 10/* PlusOrMinus */ > 1587829367 489725 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PlusOrMinus14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71426&oldid=70739 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1380) 10/* Resources */ > 1587829414 993904 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PlusOrMinus14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71427&oldid=71426 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+141) 10/* Resources */ < 1587830149 844549 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587832520 14625 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:e857:d1c1:bc26:324e QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587833102 654623 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1587833494 349095 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.167.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just placed a couple of GEL in a looped world in The Powder Toy and watch it fall < 1587833711 987220 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.167.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor little Tron particles don’t know they could wrap around and insted they keep crashing into gel >:D < 1587833798 550909 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: heh I wonder whether you'd like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H23AY8Kdx00 (especially after the 1:40 mark) < 1587833845 552251 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:e857:d1c1:bc26:324e JOIN :#esoteric < 1587834020 506929 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.167.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: ahhhhhhhh!!! < 1587834139 173019 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just saw a captcha that involved arranging puzzle pieces (on dreamviews.com). Apparently from KeyCAPTCHA < 1587835238 454513 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see a lot of people praising Forth for its ease in implementation (almost to the level of occult worship), but I wonder if Tcl (or a similar language) would be a contender for ease of implementation. < 1587835244 614820 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.167.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: awhile ago, after several tries I got how to make a hard caramel succesfully, including unsticking it from the surface when it’s cold (I pour it onto baking paper) and now rarely I make some and crush it into small pieces to use instead of sugar for tea or something. I like it’s like a real glass and maybe it can be glassblowed (I hadn’t tried) and it would be cool. Hm I’ll google that, maybe someone had done that already < 1587835311 106167 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.167.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: due to code quotes? (Though I don’t know almost a thing about Tcl) < 1587835345 794381 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: mostly due to the fact that, at its base, it's just a list of commands that's specially formatted. < 1587835359 436434 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Forth may be _easier_ than Tcl, but a Tcl implementation is not especially difficult. < 1587835409 360850 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://oldblog.antirez.com/post/picol.html Like, this is a reasonably straightforward and functional Tcl implementation in 550 lines of reasonably natural C code. < 1587835420 842666 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.167.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about a really bare-bones Scheme? < 1587835437 314103 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the gradient of "I can hack this up in less than a day" to "This is a multi-month project", I see Tcl as sitting a bit to the left above Forth. it's slightly more complex due to quoting. < 1587835467 469060 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that seems about right. < 1587835483 468258 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not literally the easiest but nor is it that difficult, as far as these things go. < 1587835483 722186 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.167.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don’t particularly like concatenative languages without quoting though. It’s hard to go without when you taste it < 1587835508 186218 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mind them. honestly all I really care about is implementation simplicity. < 1587835536 627907 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can write good abstractions and tools in just about any language, but it takes more work in some than others. < 1587835551 825032 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can write good concatenative code without quotes. < 1587835618 127388 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:e857:d1c1:bc26:324e QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587835696 424954 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes me wonder if there's some middleground between Tcl and Forth, without excess quoting and tokenization rules. < 1587835820 854729 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.167.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q-BASIC^W I’ll show myself out < 1587835832 310778 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :that picol interpreter, for example, is like 2x what I'd consider reasonable. < 1587835835 149040 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah. < 1587835964 942378 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I could turn Modal into something useful. it's deceptively simple. < 1587836000 428518 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1587836074 515527 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587836929 228117 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, imode: there's a forth implementation on IOCCC (admittedly not within the size limit, but with a small external library over an interpreter), but no Tcl in IOCCC < 1587837089 960337 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I remember reading that when digging into Forth for the first time. < 1587837119 285863 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :was neat. < 1587837187 81811 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :there has got to be other "no-parse" languages out there, right? < 1587837411 10234 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:e857:d1c1:bc26:324e JOIN :#esoteric < 1587838563 359177 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.167.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I try to win over The Powder Toy by making graphical designs out of experiments in it < 1587838579 823321 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.167.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I’ve yet to use any of them < 1587838681 694580 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.167.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example https://i.postimg.cc/G2v813Sn/traced-powdertoy.png < 1587838700 183259 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.167.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that was thoroughly edited in Inkscape < 1587839104 252589 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.167.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :also if someone knows Verve Painter by Taron (hope I remember names correctly), there is a rotating canvas mode which is neeeaaat. Even if you don’t know anything about drawing, it amounts to some great things < 1587839578 826745 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1587840204 463593 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1587840226 588330 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1587840398 753181 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1587840569 777033 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1587840735 329140 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1587841937 394317 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1587842254 951338 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.83.167.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Quit: gone too far < 1587844045 585008 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found this comment in some text mentioning tarot cards: "The Fool is given the number 0 in the Trumps, and as a C programmer from a long time back I love any 0-indexed array." < 1587844104 175701 :sparr!~sparr@2604:a880:800:10::103:f001 QUIT :Changing host < 1587844104 175775 :sparr!~sparr@pdpc/supporter/active/sparr JOIN :#esoteric < 1587844281 317135 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :While in many decks the Fool is numbered zero, that isn't it's value. I have been told before why it is numbered zero (I asked them why), they said it represents the beginning of a journey, which I suppose I can see. Although depending on the game, its value may either be the XXII of trumps, or it may have an entirely different meaning (you can play it even if you would otherwise be required to follow suit, but it always loses the tric < 1587844390 312889 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1587844545 10999 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had ideas about tarot poker, where the Fool (or Excuse) counts as both 0 and XXII, similar to the ace in the ordinary poker. > 1587845249 691992 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71428&oldid=71420 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+220) 10 < 1587845381 52149 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have thought of some ideas about tarot poker. Trumps could sometimes be treated as their own suit, and sometimes as cards of the same rank of any of the other suits (including cards that do not exist), so that you can have a "mixed flush" and "mixed straight flush", in addition to a "pure flush" and "pure straight flush". Five of a kind is also possible. < 1587845749 560247 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net PART :#esoteric < 1587846041 765196 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1587846853 395181 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble NICK :rawr < 1587849165 410976 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1587850159 59901 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:e857:d1c1:bc26:324e QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587851135 448730 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: making interesting progress on that combinator stuff https://wiki.forder.cc/wiki/Combinators < 1587851149 795400 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Switched to using infix + to denote the binary operations which has made it much easier to read < 1587851217 608938 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :In particular, https://wiki.forder.cc/wiki/Combinators#Associative_and_commutative_examples is interesting < 1587851443 342201 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that postfix notation... < 1587851473 697232 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I've used Unlambda. This messes up my brain.) < 1587851516 177657 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, the interpreter I wrote uses postfix, which is why I keep switching < 1587851558 748356 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I've started using infix for the most part in the wiki with + representing my custom binary functions and * representing application < 1587851572 418855 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this is moving the goalpost from {S,K} and any kind of TC-ness. < 1587851601 358926 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just trying to get a feel for what associative and commutative look like < 1587851610 221047 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the ultimate objective of going back to TC-ness < 1587851612 683160 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can /represent/ a lot of algebraic structures, obviously. And yes, Booleans are perhaps the most natural. < 1587851660 699512 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I was thinking about that today that with a little work it would be easy enough to construct a of the natural numbers using church numerals, but it wouldn't bring me any closer to what I'm going for < 1587851712 623439 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'm already fairly familiar with programming lambda calculus (and, by extension, Combinatory Logic) so you should not feel bad if none of this surprises me. < 1587851737 35750 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also remembered that if is generated by n elements and contains m elements then the associativity test is nm^2 rather than m^3 < 1587851750 971839 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, thanks. I've only had a few cursory passes with it. learning as I gol < 1587851786 683397 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which makes the associativity test m^2 if |C| = 1 < 1587851942 338606 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :The section on <`T``> was a little surprising to me. It wasn't immediately obvious to me that a non-trivial finite set could be generated using only I as the basis. < 1587853584 371864 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1587853778 656060 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1587854205 364581 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How common is custom (and mostly meaningless) headers for commentary in Usenet? < 1587854621 989923 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:a1cc:e766:521a:265c JOIN :#esoteric < 1587854627 43817 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen it more than once. < 1587854912 981344 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:a1cc:e766:521a:265c QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds > 1587855196 38284 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Cortex language 314]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71429 5* 03Cortex 5* (+752) 10Created page with "[[Cortex language 3]] is a general term for an esolang, named after and defined by [[User:Cortex|]] operationally defined as "'''''any languge where ;' creates a..." < 1587855379 945546 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1587856572 9937 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:a1cc:e766:521a:265c JOIN :#esoteric < 1587856651 882716 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the format of the .mcm file produced by Mednafen? It seems to be a screenshot file (since I told it to create a screenshot, and that is the file that resulted), but I don't know what format it is (ImageMagick does not know how to open it). < 1587856811 859612 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found something that says that it is a movie, and that it starts with "MDFNMOVI", although that does not seem to be the case. < 1587856909 296197 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587857055 464836 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1587857078 38942 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1587857169 256839 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"movie"; sounds like it records game inputs, one per frame < 1587857201 790518 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( Details are to be found in the source code. ) < 1587857311 455146 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't tell it to record a movie (and the documentation and quick help says F9 is for screen snapshots, not movie), and it doesn't have the format that it says is the format for movies, anyways, although the filename is the same as what the documentation about the movie says it is. < 1587857633 974432 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what you expected from us. < 1587857674 1435 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But this is true for almost all your questions, so maybe I shouldn't complain.) < 1587857737 826716 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a movie. < 1587857772 992233 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it is, but it doesn't have the format that I read about, nor was I trying to record a movie. < 1587857785 51705 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tasvideos.org/EmulatorResources/Mednafen/MCM.html < 1587857800 283515 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a pebcak problem. < 1587857814 97384 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: I found that, hence the description above. < 1587857815 455731 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read that, and, the file doesn't start with "MDFNMOVI", so it isn't a file of the format documented there. < 1587857823 68442 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:a1cc:e766:521a:265c QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587857827 232267 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Have you tried "file" on the thing < 1587857846 427952 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Also you actually have the file, we don't. I don't know how many of us are using Mednafen; I don't. < 1587857872 648048 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, "file" says it is a gzip file; I can try that. < 1587857943 578039 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it does seem to be; it still doesn't start with "MDFNMOVI" though; it starts with "MEDNAFENSVESTATE". < 1587858072 672978 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, trying rgbff on it produces a screen-shot, although not the one I expected. < 1587858077 507639 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... it's misnamed and ancient? < 1587858119 410788 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Apparently that magic string was changed in 2012) < 1587858172 973242 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure why I'm looking into this... I guess I just like hitting search engines with search terms. < 1587858214 524843 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get a picture which is a screenshot from the correct game, although the state is not the state that I commanded it to make a screenshot of. < 1587859169 834538 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1587859173 971298 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello. < 1587859240 590330 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1587859250 100424 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've finished my esolang at last. < 1587859356 14662 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anybody want to hear more? I also need to prove it's turing complete. < 1587859364 555836 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm almost certain that it is. < 1587859462 564410 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. What esolang is that? < 1587859478 538755 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :2d tape. < 1587859505 351668 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses a 2d program with two pointers. < 1587859561 827348 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :18 instructions. < 1587859587 117691 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :One pointer moves in cardinal directions if the other pointer is passing over a cardinal trigger. < 1587859621 269835 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. If you write the document, then we can read it. < 1587859634 931519 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. < 1587859647 893039 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should i just post a couple of programs? < 1587859672 131631 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you should post documentation, although you can post programs too if you want to do. < 1587859679 443904 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1587859687 261062 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Documentation is not finished yet. < 1587859695 594065 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an interpreter. < 1587859697 516073 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1587859714 401465 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, here is Hello, world! < 1587859725 640216 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :WcWcWcWcWcWcWcWcWcWcWcWcWcO!dlrow ,olleH < 1587859730 466214 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is a quine: < 1587859736 434801 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :c < 1587859752 589503 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1587859754 130149 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is a CAT program: < 1587859755 244175 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :SdcN < 1587859760 608197 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that it is 8 bytes < 1587859769 883579 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infinite loop: < 1587859772 110231 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :SdaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanEcO < 1587859782 823917 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry thats the truth machine < 1587859785 769582 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eight bytes? How is that? < 1587859790 356299 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two rows. < 1587859802 730291 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Top row is SdcN, bottom row is 4 spaces. < 1587859816 103143 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :And here is the behemoth of all of my programs. < 1587859838 641463 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, OK. < 1587859839 870131 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ungolfed addition program, taking inputs that sum to any number less than or equal to 9 < 1587859846 447554 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :---SdaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaV < 1587859851 693764 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :357 bytes. < 1587859878 113651 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it is golfed a little. < 1587859978 315602 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you think? < 1587860068 607015 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I wouldn't know much yet, until I read the documentation, I think. < 1587860088 208619 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright. Time to make some documentation. < 1587860113 869874 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, do you want to go to hackchat? It's easier to chat on than this. < 1587860143 898588 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not even know what is that, but I think this IRC is easily enough to chat on. < 1587860162 281714 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackchat is a minimalist chat application. < 1587860166 907034 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Extremely secure. < 1587860265 128346 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't download any program, but if I can telnet to it, then I can try, I suppose. However, I think this IRC is better; it is where the discussions are for this and there is logs, which is also very useful, I think. < 1587860278 511422 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's online < 1587860280 962492 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :a website < 1587860296 105999 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hackchat supports full latex and code highlighting < 1587860304 941816 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll quickly set up a chatroom. < 1587860330 439197 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.chat/?esoteric < 1587860378 869736 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to use a web site for the chat. If it is a telnet then I can try < 1587860390 280286 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not a website? < 1587860429 259509 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For one thing, is not compatible with my computer, also WWW is rather hostile < 1587860441 156558 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1587860443 199469 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And, I am not sure that I believe you about "full latex highlighting") < 1587860450 609172 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you running some weird linux thing? < 1587860459 826527 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or homebrew something < 1587860531 513514 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587860549 755240 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am using Linux. Although, that isn't really relevant; IRC or telnet is better for interactive chat anyways, and the protocols are simpler you can use them without other software < 1587860597 73825 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you don't have a browser. < 1587860605 456548 :j-bot!~jbot@80.83.124.85 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587860608 935836 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do, but not one compatible with hackchat < 1587860630 285536 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1587860631 790568 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For playing GURPS on the computer, since I am the only player at this time, I just use a direct connection, together with ts and tee for logging. It is simple and works well. < 1587860637 881299 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh right. < 1587860672 496912 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I would also avoid using the web browser as much as possible; it is the worst program on the computer. The other programs are better designed.) < 1587860680 360083 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1587860744 965071 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although I didn't like the other IRC clients either, so I wrote my own; it isn't so difficult to write, really.) < 1587860755 716541 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agreed, < 1587860919 902757 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people say IRC doesn't do that, NNTP doesn't do that, etc but that is not quite correct, because the protocol doesn't have to do those things; some things are independent from the protocol, and the user can use the client software they like, the server operator can set up and configure the server software they like. < 1587860955 135867 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( Just make an electron app *runs* ) < 1587860956 475573 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I wrote my own NNTP client software too, actually. And my own NNTP server software.) < 1587860963 241448 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice. < 1587860965 880424 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very nice. < 1587860973 614711 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm really unhappy about Electron.) < 1587861038 924276 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like Electron either. Although, if you document the protocol and then users can use whichever app they prefer, Electron or otherwise. < 1587861250 533004 :j-bot!~jbot@80.83.124.85 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587861265 759873 :j-bot!~jbot@80.83.124.85 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587861331 662088 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am writing out the documentation. < 1587861774 398425 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1587861852 694660 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587862344 608113 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I am boycotting electrons. Positive charge only for me. < 1587862423 370072 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately I have two Electron programs on my computer, though one of them is usually not running. < 1587862461 920315 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you rewrite the program to not use Electron? < 1587862499 771117 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you can rewrite programs. < 1587862502 643787 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a lot of effort. < 1587862537 728010 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can but it's a lot of effort. < 1587862551 349872 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :One program is signal-desktop, which some people like to use to communicate. < 1587862572 334337 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could reimplement the protocol and I'm sure I'd end up with something better because this program is very buggy. < 1587862594 739280 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm, why does that need the DOM part? < 1587862613 133337 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nodejs is perhaps only half as terrible as Electron) < 1587862627 465133 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a chat program with a user interface. < 1587862639 673643 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1587862645 750063 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you mean, why can't I just use the existing implementation? < 1587862652 562428 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, brain fart. I should've been able to recognize "signal". < 1587862669 939856 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could do that, though it would probably force me to use JavaScript and other nonsense. < 1587862702 784157 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah,I thought about generic signals and didn't see why it needed a GUI. < 1587862723 154876 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Node.js isn't that bad; it is a way to write programs in JavaScript. But, there are other programming languages too; they shouldn't need JavaScript for everything, because there is many other one for different purposes; some others are better for the other purpose. < 1587862739 251104 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1587862769 318586 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you could use WebAssembly too if you want to; if you have a recently enough version of Node.js then you can also write in WebAssembly. But, you shouldn't need Node.js at all if you prefer to write in C instead, I think. < 1587862892 639549 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( Customer: "I want to cook a pot of tea." Programmer: "Okay, let's start with this food factory over there..." ) < 1587862945 752674 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar koak < 1587862947 253076 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :KOAK 260053Z 28013KT 10SM SCT200 BKN250 19/12 A3002 RMK AO2 SLP166 T01940117 < 1587862961 263537 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is too hot for tea. < 1587862988 247545 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was outside today! What an experience, being outdoors. The weather was nice. < 1587863031 760027 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is nice here too, and I was also outside today. But with this virus, I am not leaving the property where I live, although I will go in the back yard sometimes. < 1587863109 756403 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not have a back yard. < 1587863158 230305 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know what character is used on a traditional forth prompt? < 1587863162 762934 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1587863164 92129 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using $ right now < 1587863229 681364 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :pop open gforth if you want an example. < 1587863255 484108 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I was going to do that. Just wondering if anyone could answer it faster than it takes me to type apt install gforth && gforth < 1587863291 631572 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting < 1587863293 934237 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :no prompt at all < 1587863351 591763 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The traditional Forth prompt is "ok" < 1587863362 274425 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, adding that too < 1587863379 128155 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ed has the best prompt < 1587863531 192670 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did this happen: bash: ed: command not found < 1587863565 195221 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'm not editing files much these days ;) < 1587863750 648384 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking for feedback on https://code.forder.cc/esolang/skiforth before I add it to the wiki. < 1587863759 228193 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any thoughts are much appreciated, bbl < 1587863920 46477 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without looking... just put it on the wiki? It can be edited and improved there after all... < 1587863958 647292 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, will likely do tomorrow < 1587864690 29927 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:10b8:381b:27e6:4398 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587864975 985279 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:10b8:381b:27e6:4398 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587865121 836540 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1587865138 500680 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm back. < 1587865144 719263 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :With documentation. < 1587865243 917006 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :But i must go. < 1587865248 150633 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :See you later. < 1587865255 741945 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587866223 148286 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was able to get a screen shot from the .mcm file using the command: zcat | tail -c+33 | rgbff 160 144 But I still am not sure why it is the wrong screenshot. (Trying different offsets doesn't seem to help; I tried that) < 1587866309 549981 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote that here so that we can remember its working. < 1587867992 70675 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( /join ##zzo38-notes ) < 1587868284 550996 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Maybe you can tell what system the game is for by the command I used.) < 1587869386 149108 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Are you into Gröbner bases? < 1587869486 412128 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1587869536 745421 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 1306 < 1587869537 675371 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :1306) int-e: Do you like this? It depends on the context. In the context of "Do you like _?", I hate it. < 1587869570 281918 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, but you seem like the sort of person who might be into them. < 1587869590 241030 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I should have just looked at the logs before asking. < 1587869622 144262 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a reasonable idea what they are, and none about the fine points (like choosing good monomial orders). < 1587869803 403878 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also shouldn't be awake right now. < 1587869842 355611 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I read your explanation from 2014 and it makes sense. < 1587871174 985566 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:10b8:381b:27e6:4398 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587871471 982362 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:10b8:381b:27e6:4398 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587871945 264087 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION snickers a bit < 1587872001 592386 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :hichaf < 1587872598 829715 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you make Fermat's Last Theorem in Magic: the Gathering? < 1587872796 913737 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, if your opponent concedes a subgame, are you allowed to concede the subgame at the same time (to force the subgame to end in a draw)? > 1587873373 931504 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71430&oldid=71339 5* 03Cortex 5* (+66) 10 < 1587873443 878413 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1587873455 703113 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo? < 1587873500 682105 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I documented it. < 1587873513 501633 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Train: OK. < 1587873529 653941 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is the documentation: < 1587873538 785010 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Documentation for TrainCode < 1587873539 832977 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :instruction pointer: < 1587873542 832962 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it is any of ^V<>, change the direction of motion to the direction of the arrow. < 1587873544 833129 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :direction of motion to right. Otherwise, set the direction of motion to down. < 1587873546 832776 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :required direction. < 1587873655 841656 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't you post it on esolang wiki instead? (I can interact with MediaWiki sites on my computer just fine, although you can't write on there if you do not have an account.) < 1587873674 786542 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't made an account yet. < 1587873695 471003 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm asking you guys for feedback, and also because I need help proving the turing completeness. < 1587873698 519288 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also just post a text file, e.g. with sprunge, which is a simple paste bin < 1587873710 611328 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :or cryptopaste < 1587873774 966387 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The advantage of sprunge is that you can use it either with a web browser or with curl, both to send and to receive, and no account is needed. < 1587873793 854532 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait it supports curl < 1587873835 729717 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/7UDn3W < 1587873854 809231 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg it does < 1587873865 634780 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :How on earth did I not know this? < 1587874121 992726 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, it look like good to me. It won't be Turing complete unless it has unlimited memory, either by an unlimited number of cells or being able to store numbers of an unlimited range in each cell. < 1587874136 702945 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've worked that much out. < 1587874145 364853 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Even if it does, that isn't the only criteria for Turing completeness though) < 1587874151 1992 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1587874162 260540 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wasn < 1587874189 14359 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :'t actually Turing complete at first, but I added "n" to make it Turing complete. < 1587874368 693939 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, do you know how I could golf my addition program? < 1587874451 807024 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :here it is: http://sprunge.us/CIxpGR < 1587874451 986965 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:10b8:381b:27e6:4398 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587874453 420994 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :From your examples, it look like the instruction grid is the same as the data grid, so maybe it is possible to be Turing complete by self-modifying code without the "n" command, although I am unsure of such a thing. I have not proven it either way. < 1587874482 787368 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you are correct. However, I don't think that it is possible for it to be Turing complete without "n". < 1587874523 522533 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If cells store numbers in an unlimited range, then possibly you can try to prove Turing completeness by a Minsky machine. < 1587874528 128346 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's my reasoning: it has to carry out a different set of instructions based on input, and it can't conditionally branch without it, due to the fact that it doesn't have the mathematical manpower. < 1587874555 151692 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might change it to unlimited range instead of 1 byte. < 1587874587 831957 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a limited grid and limited range of values in each cell, it won't be Turing complete. < 1587874592 67461 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1587874607 921939 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in a theoretical infinite case, it is Turing complete. < 1587874613 484871 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like brainfuck isn < 1587874621 809466 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :'t turing complete for a finite number of cells. < 1587874622 760955 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you should change it to unlimited range, or else make the grid not wrap around (at least vertically, even if it does wrap around horizontally). < 1587874639 428877 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would I go about I/O if I make it unlimited? < 1587874665 424104 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Input can still read a number in the range 0 to 255, and output can use the low 8-bits of the number. < 1587874683 844755 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the least significant 8 bits, or the most significant? < 1587874711 684661 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The least significant 8 bits. < 1587874719 986553 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:10b8:381b:27e6:4398 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587874723 595284 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so basically VALUE MOD 256 < 1587874728 245236 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1587874741 636677 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okie, modifiying the interpreter now. < 1587874761 733660 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's great to talk to experts. < 1587874826 192266 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about negative underflow? < 1587874911 416614 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again, you can just use the low 8-bits, that is still defined for negative numbers, although the modulo operator in the programming language in use might not work with it; you can use "VALUE AND 255" if the programming language you use supports bitwise AND operator, then that would work. < 1587874947 139113 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if I have -1, it wraps around to 255? < 1587875014 319502 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is treated as 255 for purpose of output (although still store it as -1, if you want Turing completeness by unlimited range of values in cells). < 1587875023 370332 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright. < 1587875076 726617 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does it need to be able to be negative for Turing completeness? < 1587875175 411002 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't, although it doesn't make sense for -1 to wrap around to 255 but for 256 to stay 256. < 1587875206 456517 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what should I do? < 1587875259 126394 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :An alternative is to keep cell values bounded (in which case wrapping around from 0 to 255 and vice versa probably makes sense) and to instead make the grid size unbounded vertically (or horizontally), instead of wrapping; that would also make it Turing-complete. < 1587875282 106496 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought about that, but I just don't like the idea. < 1587875297 127817 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. > 1587875329 58664 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07L14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71431&oldid=70824 5* 03Voltage2007 5* (-117) 10 < 1587875473 518476 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What programming language is the implementation written in? < 1587875508 844194 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python < 1587875578 317659 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1587875599 352941 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the capabilities of unlimited range numbers in Python, but hopefully you know what it is. < 1587875636 899455 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do. < 1587875711 345121 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1587875758 850061 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't scroll. < 1587875768 400249 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvm figured it out. < 1587876159 790479 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, how should I set up underflow? < 1587876173 933559 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I just say "it can't go under 0" < 1587876191 963967 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is another possibility, yes. < 1587876209 52087 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is tidy I guess. < 1587876228 906337 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's a bit cheaty. < 1587876261 275791 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got I/O and addition worked out now. < 1587876421 982091 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is your expert opinion? < 1587876512 963281 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not really an expert, even though I know some things about it, I do not know everything. < 1587876544 563177 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're pretty good at this ngl. < 1587876867 428429 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :testing < 1587877153 439322 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what do you think? You seem very experienced. < 1587877200 521443 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For one thing, I am not sure what exactly you are asking about. I did read the document you posted, and it look like OK to me, and these other stuff you now wrote also look like OK to me. < 1587877233 629083 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if that is what you mean, then my answer is, I think it is good. < 1587877275 156962 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I'll rephrase. So, how should I set up negative numbers? Should I say "no, you can't have negative numbers" or should I just say "negative numbers allowed", or should i overflow it? < 1587877426 259840 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the mathematically sensible thing to do is to allow them, and use the low 8-bits for output, just like with positive numbers (it is well-defined how to do this). < 1587877447 673313 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so just reuse modulo again. < 1587877520 749451 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, although in many programming languages, the result of modulo has the sign of the left operand, rather than the right, but if you have bitwise operators, use AND 255 instead of MOD 256 and then you avoid that problem (and the result is the same for positive numbers). < 1587878048 706792 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :What on earth do you mean? I get the bit about the sign of the left operand rather than the right, but what do you mean by a bitwise operator? < 1587878102 300667 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I think I know what you mean. < 1587878110 102142 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll test it in Python now. < 1587878138 13321 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, it works fine. < 1587878157 586829 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :% is python's modulo operator, and -1%256 is 255 < 1587878171 207474 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uploaded to compiler. < 1587878177 954630 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turing complete! < 1587878335 687208 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, then in Python the modulo operator does use the right sign, unlike C and dc, so it works. < 1587878348 551703 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1587878686 782965 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :This can be tested: If you write "d" and then "a" 256 times (or "b" 256 times) and then "c" and then "n", it should output the same byte as the input but always go down instead of right, even if you input a space. Then it will use unbounded cell values correctly in that case. < 1587878732 653727 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright, testing it now < 1587878862 872986 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it works. < 1587878872 651021 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :The interpreter is free of bugs. < 1587878897 352767 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also found a pseudo-quine: < 1587878898 490943 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :c < 1587878917 787956 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes, that will work. < 1587878938 135495 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although it won't terminate) < 1587878952 355990 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1587878970 70184 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any quines that terminate? (Other than the trivial case of the null program) < 1587879080 406200 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will try to think of it. < 1587879118 645690 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't been able to find any terminating quines, but I know that there are several different classes of non-terminating types. < 1587879129 662905 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each class has an infinity of solutions. < 1587879371 425557 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, did you find a way to golf the addition program? 357 bytes is a lot! < 1587879640 783005 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, although right now I will think of the quine, and then perhaps tomorrow I might look at the addition program again < 1587879675 987404 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright. < 1587880387 691477 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :c ya < 1587880391 489870 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587880517 748813 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587880532 410487 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe JOIN :#esoteric < 1587880926 985701 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:10b8:381b:27e6:4398 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587881215 985461 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:10b8:381b:27e6:4398 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587884182 323117 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:10b8:381b:27e6:4398 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587884489 320037 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:10b8:381b:27e6:4398 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1587885292 4322 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:55bf:d66b:9050:7bc4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587885594 979766 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:55bf:d66b:9050:7bc4 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587885852 409059 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:55bf:d66b:9050:7bc4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587885950 659174 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1587886364 485555 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think now I figured out how to make a quine with TrainCode. < 1587886383 1940 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(My program is ten bytes long) > 1587888299 565156 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07L14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71432&oldid=71431 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+8) 10Two adjacent single quote characters must be escaped in order to be visible in the rendered HTML of the page > 1587888380 215008 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07L14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71433&oldid=71432 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+8) 10ditto < 1587889827 347570 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587891498 870970 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1587892470 608205 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Stopwatch14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71434&oldid=70876 5* 03GDavid 5* (+3) 10Step -> split > 1587892582 737583 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Stopwatch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71435&oldid=71406 5* 03GDavid 5* (+134) 10 < 1587892896 460473 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587892973 869127 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587897951 738256 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587899227 407890 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587900114 512993 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587900285 548598 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1587900291 883277 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1587905837 744122 :rawr!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble QUIT :Quit: They're putting dbus in the kernel. For fairness, I want a Java RMI registry in the linux kernel too. dont @ me < 1587906055 47881 :rawr!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble JOIN :#esoteric < 1587908498 846162 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.231.134 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587909271 407538 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1587910089 213764 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587910167 785998 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1587911165 755368 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, are humans markov chains in disguise? < 1587911165 934308 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: mind is fuzzed right now here we have both > 1587911188 497226 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Skiforth14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71436 5* 03Orby 5* (+1844) 10Creating Skiforth page > 1587911303 33889 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Orby14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71437&oldid=71319 5* 03Orby 5* (+49) 10 > 1587911402 683964 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Skiforth14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71438&oldid=71436 5* 03Orby 5* (-1) 10/* Examples */ Fixing small typo < 1587912514 540109 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.231.134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there an interesting way to do diffusion-limited aggregation in The Powder Toy? I know a simple one: spam fog when ambient heat is off, then place a nucleus somewhere or just wait. But that makes pretty boring images < 1587912546 195144 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.231.134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh I probably should join #powder or something :D < 1587913799 467236 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:55bf:d66b:9050:7bc4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ine-e: would you like to add a variation of BB_lambda to OEIS? < 1587913830 871186 :Melvar`!~melvar@dslb-084-063-063-106.084.063.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1587914062 74821 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-070-039-139.088.070.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587914715 503970 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1587915224 576476 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: surprisingly, that did not highlight me ;) < 1587915242 465935 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:55bf:d66b:9050:7bc4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, typo < 1587915292 86087 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: Somewhat tempting, but I haven't found motivation for basically anything this week. So for now, no. < 1587915328 21521 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even though I do have an OEIS account) < 1587915334 232553 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:55bf:d66b:9050:7bc4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be a good way dto showcase your KO complexity < 1587915368 48625 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but it can wait. < 1587915458 754823 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:55bf:d66b:9050:7bc4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PS: i completed the 36 TODOs in BB.txt < 1587915495 524709 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:55bf:d66b:9050:7bc4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :still waiting for latest draft to be published < 1587916107 49631 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:d1e4:94fc:5e34:251a QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1587916703 388524 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1587916908 495528 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:c15e:8fc9:96ef:8ba2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587917136 450069 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1587917479 466511 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :c,E,c,a,EP < 1587917503 404634 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the quine for the TrainCode that I figured out earlier < 1587917530 28810 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although I have not actually tried to execute this program on the computer, so it is untested) > 1587917915 848967 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Post Dominos14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71439&oldid=65386 5* 03Orby 5* (+4) 10FIxing broken link > 1587918213 604959 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71440&oldid=65381 5* 03Orby 5* (+4) 10Fixing more broken links < 1587918647 269846 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The comma and P have no meaning.) < 1587920342 231026 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :inetd/xinetd seems to have been forgotten by a lot of mainstream developers. putting your crap in the cloud should be as simple as throwing a binary up there along with a service interlayer that hooks the sockets up for you. < 1587920376 523976 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're back to CGI with Lambda, why not general TCP/UDP serves. < 1587920383 3522 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/serves/servers < 1587920452 707654 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use xinetd. < 1587920488 607022 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :good. < 1587920575 459838 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although, that is mainly because I implemented my own NNTP server and Gopher server and QOTD server. < 1587920604 640179 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. if you wanted to handle web requests, use CGI. < 1587920656 156636 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, CGI is useful for handing web requests, and xinetd is useful for handling such things as NNTP and so on. < 1587920699 683601 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I currently work for Amazon and I'm kind of shocked at the kinds of architecture people are promoting internally. it is _literally_ like CGI apps of the early 2000's. < 1587920709 327306 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :just using "modern infrastructure". < 1587920952 330929 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like this quine program? < 1587922160 250276 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: so... simplicity by spawning a new process on every request? < 1587922180 82711 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup. < 1587922203 61346 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: If so, will they reinvent fastcgi next to save the fork/exec overhead? :) < 1587922211 671675 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe preforking, preforking is cool too. < 1587922213 576292 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahaha, pretty much already have. < 1587922226 322622 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kind of disturbing. everything old is new again, but with accounting hooks attached. < 1587922243 36773 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do they call it though... < 1587922260 549341 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. single shot server < 1587922269 898390 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that, maybe a bit cooler. < 1587922306 125254 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda is essentially fastcgi in that it can pass stuff between requests. < 1587922464 911449 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually I expect someone to recommend me the bchs stack but un-un-unironically. < 1587922474 41451 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( Achievement of the day: I made the prompt of my Raspberry logins raspberry-colored. ) < 1587923775 544259 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1587925405 405940 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1587926082 316890 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mydtsjenuapipayi JOIN :#esoteric < 1587926296 755729 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1587927046 871551 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.105.14.143.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1587927178 864406 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.231.134 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1587927450 406283 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1587928203 956352 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i started writing a terminal ide for funciton. i am planing on a debugger, too. any non-obvious feature suggestions? < 1587928794 954766 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.105.14.143.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: I get it copy-pasting is obvious? Maybe some input/output/wire rearrangements? < 1587928799 836469 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.105.14.143.dynamic.ufanet.ru NICK :arseniiv < 1587928824 56103 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, i didn't consider copy-pasting yet :D < 1587928848 436230 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by rearrangement? < 1587928855 241051 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://imgur.com/a/7rZNuzF < 1587928859 117456 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my current state < 1587929058 805770 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.14.143.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : what do you mean by rearrangement? => a basic feature here would be simply moving (groups of) blocks to anywhere user wishes, with automatical rerouting of wires. I think there can be more to it, too, but I need to re-read Funciton page < 1587929107 765986 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: i did consider that. like, removing wires where you are moving a block to and automatically extending at the other end < 1587929124 21047 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not sure how to feel about crossing wires yet, though < 1587929166 278092 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.14.143.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, also how about find/replace? Allow replacing a, say, single block with a several blocks, if inputs and outputs are somehow made into correspondence < 1587929200 184738 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be tough ui-wise < 1587929312 254805 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.14.143.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :though hm I think the natural thing would be to move in the opposite direction: refactoring out functions from block groups. That would still require mapping inputs/outputs but maybe this case would be somehow easier < 1587929464 915032 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.14.143.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: or how about inputting not just single blocks, but also frequently used block groups? Though are there any quickly identifiable ones… < 1587929501 349051 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.14.143.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :now my imagination is quite bounded, my suggestions are all variations on the same theme I think :D < 1587929829 835674 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.14.143.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I remember the nop function is needed to make crossings < 1587930232 474862 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1587930349 872308 :Melvar`!~melvar@dslb-084-063-063-106.084.063.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1587930390 189006 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.14.143.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/Funciton/Brainfuckiton ← I like a little ladder in there (in the giant BF◊ function) < 1587930488 941011 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.14.143.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: oh! maybe there could be a simple compactification feature utilizing these ladders < 1587930550 195490 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.14.143.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :if no secret, what language are you going to use? < 1587930601 899899 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am using js, because i really like blessed-js < 1587930879 690122 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fluffiest tui library i have ever seen < 1587931116 783860 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.14.143.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, I didn’t expect that from js < 1587931146 817800 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :me neither < 1587931154 876915 :Melvar`!~melvar@dslb-084-063-063-106.084.063.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1587931168 952952 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you are into tuis, give it a shot < 1587931434 461437 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/embarklabs/neo-blessed < 1587932505 67957 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have used blessed too (although not much) < 1587932526 69647 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you do with it < 1587933286 126642 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to make a configuration TUI for mahjong rules, although since then I made up an entirely different thing which uses a plain text file and is far more flexible with the rules it is possible to define. < 1587933676 429079 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I might also have other uses for blessed in future, although not right now; I am unsure.) < 1587934463 65687 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mydtsjenuapipayi QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1587934822 868920 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.14.143.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1587936608 699537 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1587937207 656766 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:55bf:d66b:9050:7bc4 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587937230 822683 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1587937284 507443 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:55bf:d66b:9050:7bc4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587938434 833374 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1587938440 419670 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gudday. < 1587938653 338876 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Train: Hello, I figured out the quine. It is: c,E,c,a,EP < 1587938663 443946 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :P? < 1587938692 406000 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, P at the end. < 1587938709 324722 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :why P? is it because of its value? < 1587938722 390957 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; it is one more than O. < 1587938736 343216 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, okay < 1587938776 406349 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It outputs: < 1587938777 934113 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :cEccaEFFGGHHIIJJKKLLMMNNO < 1587938838 619390 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, it doesn't works. < 1587938848 675281 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :dang < 1587938862 5676 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll give you the instruction log < 1587938904 18889 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Possibly something I did not understand about it, or possibly just I made a mistake) < 1587938931 465608 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :EcaEPcDcaEPcDbbEPcDbcFPcDbcGPcDbcHPcDbcIPcDbcJPcDbcKPcDbcLPcDbcMPcDbcNPcDbcO < 1587938937 328811 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the debug log. < 1587939091 976653 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there are any single-line quines. < 1587939182 736956 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1587939515 749256 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not understand the debug log. What does it mean? < 1587939541 858957 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a list of the commands that the program cycled through. < 1587939578 291871 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why doesn't it include the initial "c" and the commas? < 1587939614 359443 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1587939630 591119 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh i didn't realise it needed commas < 1587939635 147054 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :c,E,c,a,EP outputs c,E,c,a,EP < 1587939640 545117 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you explain how you got it? < 1587939644 419112 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, so it does work. < 1587939648 373644 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1587939654 433153 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did you obtain the quine? < 1587939740 560002 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I thought of a few different ideas, and then I thought it would have to avoid modifying some commands, so I put interleaved commands that are meaningless. But, finally it will have to terminate, so at the end I put P instead of a comma, so that it changes to O and then it will stop. < 1587939762 972139 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah right. < 1587939770 395089 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thats really smart. < 1587939778 996027 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you say you don't have much experience in this? < 1587939821 927524 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I have more experience in this than people who do not have experience in this. < 1587939835 998472 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But these kind of things isn't everything I do in my life. < 1587939850 51841 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have quite a bit of experience, but this is my first fully finished esolang which is a proper turing tarpit. < 1587940150 272083 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to make a brainfuck interpreter in it right now. < 1587940162 941850 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :That will properly prove it's turing complete. < 1587940237 2844 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think that is easily possible? < 1587940260 584407 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that will, although a way to convert a Minsky machine to TrainCode would also prove it Turing complete. < 1587940269 911496 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1587940317 425025 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And that also seems easier to me, although I don't actually know because I haven't actually tried, so I just guess.) < 1587940330 162580 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really understand what a Minsky machine is. < 1587940355 797100 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand the whole "there are x unbounded registers with two operations" < 1587940367 390920 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't understand the alternate state transition < 1587940435 369217 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if one register is zero, then it won't decrement and instead will make an alternate state transition. In TrainCode, you would use 32 instead of 0, and you would write "na" (with the "a" to the right of the "n") to produce the failing decrement, and do something else instead in that case. < 1587940482 236671 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have to be anything specific, or can it just be literally anything < 1587940511 47287 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not understand your question. < 1587940528 403353 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the case of the failing decrement, what do I do? < 1587940568 847828 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :A successful or failed decrement will jump to a different part of the code, causing different code to be executed. (This is what your "n" command does.) < 1587940603 323955 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yep < 1587941083 429235 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll use 2 registers. Does that make it Turing complete? < 1587941165 352980 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1587941172 646806 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two registers is sufficient for Turing completeness. < 1587941189 879881 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet. I'll use the cells at 0,1 and 1,1 for the registers. < 1587941220 640388 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll also need some way to store the code, or I could just directly output it. < 1587941269 589120 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggested using an external program which is capable of converting any Minsky machine (of two registers) into TrainCode; if it can do that, that is sufficient to prove Turing completeness. < 1587941319 174001 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay... couldn't I just have an I/O for the code. < 1587941342 585613 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The converter can be written in whatever programming language you want) < 1587941351 939782 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay... < 1587941372 743156 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could just have an I/O for the code, although it is probably easier to convert it with a separate program. < 1587941384 906429 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so. < 1587941411 959929 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because stacked "n" commands allow for really easy elifs, I reckon I could do that. < 1587941491 82024 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it does do that. < 1587941507 786581 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what are the operations? < 1587941514 960897 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I need four operations...? < 1587941531 381073 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add to R1, subtract to R1 and the same for R2 < 1587941554 671742 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and flow control based on whether the decrement is successful or failed. < 1587941560 475629 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if the subtraction operation fails, it jumps forward a certain amount? < 1587941567 636526 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that what you mean? < 1587941598 884454 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The program tells it where to jump to. < 1587941612 907845 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean? < 1587941704 881250 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does the program tell it where to jump to? < 1587941718 379921 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not sure how else to explain right now < 1587941757 17626 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you explain it really simply, step by step, because I am reasonably new to esolanging. < 1587941876 255724 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, an alternative is The Amnesiac From Minsk; level 1 and 2 are Turing complete. < 1587941959 631380 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although I think Amnesiac From Minsk requires more than two registers to be Turing complete) < 1587941974 856202 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it does. < 1587942051 863858 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what does a failed decrement do? < 1587942058 282576 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say we have both registers at 1 < 1587942079 692737 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we add one to the second one and decrement the second one twice. < 1587942083 223086 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that do? < 1587942096 753947 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a GOTO command, each decrement command in the program specifies what part of the program to execute next. < 1587942116 67598 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, I follow. < 1587942128 609141 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, how does a decrement say where to GOTO? < 1587942178 243262 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :By specifying the address of the next instruction. < 1587942195 929983 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay... but it is just a decrement. < 1587942402 692 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it specify an address? < 1587942432 682908 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it is a parameter for the command. < 1587942432 736128 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :The esolang wiki isn't very helpful either, and neither is wikipedia. < 1587942578 243776 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the decrement command actually takes a parameter < 1587942599 174207 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not just a decrement by 1 < 1587942652 710597 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is just a decrement by 1; the parameter is where to jump to. < 1587942683 912495 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so a decrement command takes 1 parameter, and if that decrement command cannot be executed, it jumps to that address in the program memory. < 1587942732 394696 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1587942739 533791 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright. < 1587942776 675234 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a limit on how small the program can be to ensure turing completeness, or does it tend towards infinity? < 1587942782 315361 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1587942794 792665 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright. < 1587942806 995548 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :In theory, TrainCode should be able to implement a minsky machine.. < 1587942883 680284 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it has flow control with "n" < 1587942937 630717 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1587943208 798868 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :First, I'll implement a Minsky engine which I can then use a python program to produce traincode that can be fed into the Minsky Engine. < 1587943265 987101 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrmmmm < 1587943274 960043 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :This will be hard. < 1587943294 791456 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just going to brainstorm on here, check me if I'm wrong. < 1587943325 868068 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: NICK :orby < 1587943330 299771 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, Line 2 of the code will be the Minsky instructions. < 1587943331 803130 :orby!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: NICK :orbitaldecay < 1587943410 613042 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm where is TrainCode? < 1587943447 552433 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Check the logs. < 1587943468 724302 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :But here's traincode: http://sprunge.us/7UDn3W < 1587943473 206201 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :just curl it < 1587943550 758213 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1587943572 476317 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587943627 647982 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I think TrainCode does already have an infinite memory because of the size of the program. < 1587943640 581056 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Additionally, I need a better name for it. < 1587943649 519818 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :TrainCode is not a very good name. < 1587943664 924896 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at this beautiful prompt color https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/fruit.png :P < 1587943696 58811 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :The font hurts, but it is a nice colour. < 1587943719 177412 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a perfect raspberry color < 1587943731 807648 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The font... well I've been using that same font for more than 20 years. < 1587943738 55720 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ouch. < 1587943742 170278 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hard to change now. < 1587943746 373878 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is the font hurts? It is the same font I use on my computer (but with different colours) < 1587943753 520144 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer gridded fonts personally. < 1587943761 980337 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(obviously it's not scaled up like that) < 1587943764 36718 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or MC enchantment table. < 1587943769 263456 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I prefer it than the other font < 1587943779 551289 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, back to esolanging. < 1587943807 942890 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Train: basically as long as my eyes can take it I'll probably stick to this font... I know its quirks (e.g. how 0 and O or l and | look...) < 1587943809 91609 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what is the better name for it. < 1587943823 475957 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Train: But that doesn't mean anybody else should feel good about it :) < 1587943825 887001 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking maybe something latin might sound nice. < 1587943886 865583 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Veritas sounds nice. < 1587943890 960212 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's latin for Truth. < 1587943906 719582 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, the size of the program doesn't cause it to have infinite memory; it only allows the programmer to set the memory to an arbitrarily large finite size, which isn't quite the same thing. Allowing the values of cells to be of unlimited range does give it infinite memory though. < 1587943914 167693 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1587943930 100981 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in the special case of the minsky machine, there is no difference. < 1587944102 263784 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm mirrors < 1587944114 142458 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mirrors? < 1587944158 538262 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Train: I just saw \ and /. And I'm reminded of https://esolangs.org/wiki/Trajedy even though that's very different. < 1587944218 390320 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. I'd never even heard of Trajedy. < 1587944259 67052 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine that's probably true of most of the languages on the wiki :) < 1587944270 96401 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lol, there's like 5000. < 1587944307 170766 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trajedy actually sparked quite a bit of discussion here when it was new (involving myself as well) though so it stood out. < 1587944323 373709 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an interesting concept. < 1587944348 510952 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised it's turing complete. < 1587944383 118055 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can see how it is. < 1587944413 456610 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I call dibs on language name Veritas, and because this chat is logged, people can see this. < 1587944534 353134 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1587944587 879875 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how terrible Traincode would become without the n. < 1587944633 675776 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1587944644 78053 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :n is the only thing that can make flow control < 1587944654 820430 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you'd have to do *everything* with self-modifying code) < 1587944658 774331 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1587944674 464444 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :whioch isn't unheard of in esolangs < 1587944675 912810 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I've already established that's impossible to do *everything* < 1587944680 445204 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :in TrainCode < 1587944709 794493 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :most problems are possible, but none are trivial without n, and there are some that are impossible < 1587944711 277761 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the wraparound kills the idea of infinite state, unless you start with an infinite grid < 1587944725 712931 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinite number of states in each cell < 1587944726 247183 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, conceptually, I believe you could do < 1587944739 692090 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could easily make an infinite grid. < 1587944745 660652 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I chose a finite grid. < 1587944792 665138 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing is, you could do that without radically changing the nature of the language. People have done similar things with Brainfuck. < 1587944814 88520 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I made a brainfuck interpreter that had that. < 1587944816 556622 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :ages ago < 1587944840 931017 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The original Brainfuck had 30k byte-sized cells... few clones adhered to that) < 1587944900 490223 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah I know. < 1587944923 309166 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my interpreter I kept the byte-sized cells, but made it infinite. < 1587944935 357579 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was the original brainfuck turing-complete? < 1587944967 351652 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, Traincode is a kind of minimal Befunge which judging by https://esolangs.org/wiki/Befunge#Related_languages is a surprisingly small niche. < 1587944981 553628 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the original Brainfuck suffered from the limitation of having finite state. < 1587944993 122203 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1587944995 873029 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thx. < 1587945010 773357 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :So a turing-complete system must have infinite states? < 1587945031 947749 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. TC-ness is a bit overrated. < 1587945076 430621 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, especially because esolangs are ESOTERIC < 1587945093 534819 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost any system is turing-complete. < 1587945104 196656 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without too much effort. < 1587945110 71057 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The usual view on any computer is that it's a finite state machine with a ridiculously huge state space... easily 2^2^2^40 states *excluding* external storage. < 1587945136 965062 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there's a disconnect between TC-ness (which computers aren't) and being useful for programming (which computers very much are). < 1587945140 193695 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, but most esolangs deal with the hypothetical infinite case for the turing completeness proof. < 1587945155 464224 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :An interesting esolang case is Malbolge. < 1587945171 398400 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1587945188 108779 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember that paper which showed a way to functionally program in Malbolge? < 1587945191 789330 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was insane. < 1587945228 232170 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has about 3^590490 states, which technically makes it a finite state machine, but you can still program it by selecting starting states that exhibit interesting behavior. < 1587945237 128180 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1587945269 880716 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I don't. I have not actually delved into Malbolge programming... still amazed that people actually accomplished it :) < 1587945272 133397 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it has a finite number of programs, is it Turing complete? I wouldn't think so... < 1587945315 226869 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, it's not. < 1587945317 348608 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it did change my view on what constitutes programming, and how it relates (or doesn't) to Turing-completeness. < 1587945334 134569 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Malbolge is one of the more out-there ones. < 1587945337 587768 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a finite state machine, so it's not TC. < 1587945342 516661 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1587945398 848453 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's Malbolge Unshackled which lifts the memory constraint and is TC (as a programming language; implementations will be constrained by computer hardware). < 1587945407 105310 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know. < 1587945427 820340 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just one of those languages that makes you think "who was sadistic enough to think of this" < 1587945502 704930 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's the Malbolge truth machine: < 1587945504 163473 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :(aONMLKJIHGFEDCBA@?>=<;:98765FD21dd!-,O*)y'&v5#"!DC|Qzf,*vutsrqpF!Clk|ih < 1587945511 378631 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. < 1587945669 723733 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I got the first part of the minsky engine working < 1587945681 426228 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i just need instruction handling < 1587946159 525209 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1587946434 189984 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/PATH is very similar to TrainCode < 1587947457 58979 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Malbolge is kinda interesting just by way of picking the least convenient option for each and every design decision that came up. < 1587947516 798535 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's possible to make something more just straight-up weird I imagine, but I imagine not much less _useable_ without making serious sacrifices in theoretical capabilities. < 1587947525 427587 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1587948193 524036 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1587948992 941250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Oxcart14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71441&oldid=66839 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+1) 10/* Program structure */ Spelling error > 1587950140 254012 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Control Flow14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71442&oldid=71346 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+233) 10Clarifications and filling in missing sections < 1587950544 833360 :TrainCode!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1587950556 991635 :TrainCode!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gudday! < 1587950783 654324 :TrainCode!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587951322 930880 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :hum < 1587951341 220187 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to have a conversation with someone who isn't here, isn't it? :P < 1587951641 833496 :TrainCode!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1587951696 237887 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I would think so. But you can still write, if you have something to write, I suppose. < 1587951776 897951 :TrainCode!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we can see what you have said through the logs. < 1587951862 740138 :TrainCode!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can still have a conversation with them. < 1587951878 413478 :TrainCode!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :_test_ < 1587952013 556295 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmao < 1587952019 143680 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i suppose that's true < 1587952051 692529 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shall have to act as though people can read her words without being present < 1587952114 660738 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot this channel has people who catch up on goings-on while absent by reading the public logs xd < 1587952119 689507 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been a while, admittedly < 1587952126 295054 :TrainCode!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do what. < 1587952128 257273 :TrainCode!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that. < 1587952134 205016 :TrainCode!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that weird? < 1587952359 238807 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's actually culturally normal _here_. I think this is the only channel I've been in where it's all that common though. < 1587952381 71579 :TrainCode!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :hack.chat/?programming has it happen a lot < 1587952394 264572 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs < 1587952698 959886 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of uncommon on Freenode. < 1587952722 235329 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it's not that surprising given the logs in the topic though < 1587952732 75519 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which has been a thing for... ages? < 1587952755 470005 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think that was there even back when I first joined. ... god, like 15 years ago < 1587952813 621022 :TrainCode!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :On hackchat, most people have some sort of logger bot. < 1587952828 646601 :TrainCode!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the server doesn't store chatlogs. < 1587952839 315274 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :I connect via a bouncer these days < 1587952867 234979 :TrainCode!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paranoid much? < 1587952897 708631 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm? < 1587952926 734793 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1587952949 279160 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bouncer is being used for always-on and having shared client state between multiple systems, not for privacy reasons really < 1587952973 547885 :TrainCode!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1587952984 429859 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freenode server doesn't store chat logs either I think; there is the bots to store the logs. (It is possible though to make a IRC server that does make public logs of public channels, although most don't.) < 1587953008 76953 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better not be for privacy, seeing as "pikhq" is what I go by basically everywhere and you can pretty trivially find where in the world I live and where I work from there :) < 1587953065 940427 :TrainCode!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, do you guys wanna talk on a hackchat? < 1587953122 962411 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, we have indeed had public logs for quite awhile. < 1587953126 600589 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :[2003-01-18 02:49:02] < hcf> lament: would you like clog to log #esoteric? < 1587953126 637923 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :[2003-01-18 02:50:58] < lament> i'm not sure. clog would talk more than an average regular :) < 1587953141 410383 :TrainCode!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow... < 1587953176 383612 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, uh, given that you can probably find out a _lot_ of stuff about me if you're willing to pour over logs long enough :P < 1587953196 354904 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, more accurately, about teenage-to-early-college me mostly < 1587953270 429989 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has, admittedly, grown and changed a fair bit since the now long gone year of 2005 < 1587953456 684779 :diverger!~div@89.187.187.67 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587953495 325328 :divergence!~div@212.102.40.74 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1587953515 330232 :TrainCode!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, do you guys wanna meet me on https://hack.chat/?esolangs < 1587953658 574884 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't particularly care to, but 🤷🏻‍♀️ < 1587953752 488002 :TrainCode!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like hackchat more. It just feels... polished, ya know? < 1587953787 478653 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm rather fond of my client < 1587953799 997557 :TrainCode!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :What OS are you running? < 1587953831 447551 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :This system is Windows, though my client is IRCCloud, which is useable from a lot of systems < 1587953845 679358 :TrainCode!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have Chrome? < 1587953853 693522 :TrainCode!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or python? < 1587953859 691238 :TrainCode!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or nodejs? < 1587953889 104616 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently I'm using Firefox; I do have a Python interpreter or 3 installed here, but I don't have Node because I really don't touch JS stuff < 1587953901 270124 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've also got a _few_ C compilers at my ready... < 1587953913 189205 :TrainCode!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587953949 920719 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lessee, we've got MSVC, Windows-targetting clang, x86_64-linux-gnu targetting gcc, x86_64-linux-gnu targetting clang, and x86_64-linux-musl targetting gcc... < 1587953990 188502 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to mention, a couple Rust installs < 1587954046 235539 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm contractually obligated to not use any chat systems not supported by fungot, and I don't think I can manage to write to a web thing from Befunge quite as easily. < 1587954046 351938 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: which is sort of what boolfuck is to brainfuck... and the format is a full statement) ( cond < 1587954062 866469 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, it's sleepytime.) < 1587954066 863781 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :valid < 1587954071 448267 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pets fungot < 1587954071 760702 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: why are you dividing with the number one thousand one, the argument list with default values would be thunks that did possibly some i/ o systems changed significantly.' wikipedia < 1587954080 182820 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good bot. < 1587954086 994857 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a place I can read about the implementation of async/await in V8? Does it turn into something significantly different from the source code transformation something like Babel would do? < 1587954124 113440 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, now you have me curious, shachaf < 1587954188 913699 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc async stuff is thrown into the void as "might happen on another thread, might not". < 1587954515 165504 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, hichaf < 1587954912 691804 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1587954972 629421 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's things? aside from the world at large being scow, of course < 1587955216 243034 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You gotta do what you gotta do. < 1587955222 739054 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods < 1587955531 799120 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feeling like even more of a social recluse than usual while wanting to be more social than I had prior to about a year ago, personally. < 1587955537 265373 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's... kinda weird < 1587955804 293446 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, that's the "what you gotta do" part. < 1587955815 854327 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods < 1587956019 627207 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The switches I want in the "cat" program are not shared at all with what the GNU implementation does; the stuff that the GNU implementation does is stuff that it seem to me should be better in separate programs; the program "cat" would just concatenate files (and/or standard input) only. But, there is a few option I think should be put in, such as to tell what to do in case of errors reading and in case of errors writing. < 1587956063 392841 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, those actually do seem somewhat more useful than the random transformations that GNU (and indeed, traditional Unix) cat can do < 1587956429 653724 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The purpose of cat is to copy data from a file or file descriptor to stdout. Concatenating files is secondary. < 1587956448 980000 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"purpose" according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POSIWID < 1587956462 135503 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmao, well, given thaaaat < 1587956479 566774 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :granted. < 1587956492 761379 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that is just the case where the number of files to concatenate is only one, which is of course a common case, and there is nothing wrong with that. < 1587956738 758060 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1587956983 70817 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a certain way of looking at it, I suppose < 1587956992 13006 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just concatenating N files where N=1 < 1587956995 295284 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems trivial but hey < 1587957219 634500 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How should this spawn function return values and errors? < 1587957240 739959 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just changed it to return a positive PID on success and a negative errno on failure. < 1587957266 179756 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems reasonable enough, assuming your error results will fit in that < 1587957745 389711 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'll stick with it. < 1587957790 834637 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about this file traversal API? How should it return errors? < 1587957813 427205 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming you're limited to C APIs, kinda hard < 1587957822 62176 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a few options but none of them great < 1587957830 447677 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right now it's used like this: "NNFTW nnftw; nnftw_start(&nnftw, path, flags); while (nnftw_next(&nnftw)) { ...nnftw.path, etc.... }" < 1587957863 522816 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There can be multiple errors as it fails to open directories and so on. < 1587957913 478720 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could make it return an error, as in, you have to check nnftw.err before using the file name, but it seems easy to forget about that. < 1587957979 486346 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can both set nnftw.err and then blank the file name too. < 1587957986 596851 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking that by default it'll silently ignore errors, but you can pass in a flag saying that you want them, and then you have to check .err before using it. < 1587958015 680469 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some functions in SQLite that write the result to a pointer will write a null pointer when it returns an error (in addition to returning the error code, and saving it to be able to retrieve it later). < 1587958035 996257 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes, that will work, I think < 1587958483 511723 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I guess that works < 1587958496 936387 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :API design is hard. < 1587958615 257176 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure whether it's a good idea to skip errors silently by default. < 1587958618 481152 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1587958634 597908 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's what nftw does (with no option to report errors), but maybe that's irrelevant. < 1587958706 791017 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :If this were a not-C language I'd say maybe return some option type, but uh... well. < 1587960595 436418 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :My file traversal program is 50-100% faster than `find` at printing all the files in /home. I would have expected find to be pretty fast at this task. < 1587960645 673530 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. > 1587961264 752687 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Arity14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71443&oldid=69413 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+32) 10A few extra synonyms < 1587961526 561662 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Pokemon card there is one "rainbow energy" card, which can be used as any energy but also damages the card it is attached to. It is good; I once won the game with it despite already having enough energy to attack. > 1587963957 64843 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Surreal FOREVER loop14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71444 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+676) 10Created page with "There are some useful total programming languages. Total means they always terminate. In order that a language implementing forever loops can be Turing complete, it would need..." < 1587965106 826122 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:55bf:d66b:9050:7bc4 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587965417 360009 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1587965471 451641 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1587965558 757916 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1587965657 317032 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Client Quit < 1587965666 98461 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1587965949 329437 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1587966162 872293 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.14.143.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1587967449 765565 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:55bf:d66b:9050:7bc4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587967752 4195 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:55bf:d66b:9050:7bc4 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587968705 5024 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:592d:e764:75a1:aba JOIN :#esoteric < 1587968998 985315 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:592d:e764:75a1:aba QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587969510 108488 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587969549 407870 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1587970129 332026 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1587970182 756778 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1587970841 353607 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:592d:e764:75a1:aba JOIN :#esoteric < 1587973192 327224 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1587973260 197132 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:8db8:e140:8423:22cf JOIN :#esoteric < 1587974004 349840 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1587974100 293562 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1587976672 822175 :interruptinuse!~interrupt@girl.mrtheplague.net QUIT :Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in -- bye bye! < 1587976684 668934 :interruptinuse!~interrupt@girl.mrtheplague.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1587977090 876426 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587977231 753450 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587978351 790022 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587980936 537569 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an idea for an esolang < 1587980987 507409 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what ide < 1587981304 143456 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Concatenative version of the SK calculus. Doesn't need parentheses, then. But does need some extra combinators to manipulate the stack. Or maybe it's a queue instead of a stack and only has one extra combinator. < 1587981576 726571 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:8db8:e140:8423:22cf PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Like https://esolangs.org/wiki/Jot / https://esolangs.org/wiki/Zot ? < 1587981879 26508 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of something with a stack or a queue. < 1587982030 367539 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:8db8:e140:8423:22cf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you have the combinator tree and a stack in the background? Interesting :) < 1587982284 109837 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:8db8:e140:8423:22cf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason reminds me of a distributed computing paradigm in which intermediate results are put into a shared pool and then taken out by another process < 1587982434 682424 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: look at lambda: the gathering. no parenthesis. < 1587982606 682428 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also didn't you just make such an esolang a few months ago, and I pointed you to LTG at that point too? < 1587982628 557589 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/Wagon < 1587982737 842643 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.105.4.242.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1587982807 860131 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.14.143.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1587982824 325494 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thue has been featured on the wiki frontpage for over a year. I think it's time to feature a new language. < 1587983756 319055 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587983872 449739 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: "easily 2^2^2^40 states" => no way < 1587984149 404300 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:8db8:e140:8423:22cf QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1587985101 745018 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587985547 935150 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really see the resemblance between Wagon and the SK calculus, myself < 1587985565 489351 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well anyway. < 1587985568 145320 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 > 1587986032 589671 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Quark14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71445 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+344) 10Created page with "{{stub}} '''Quark''' is a minimal concatenative, functional, homoiconic language akin to [[Forth]] and [[Joy]]. == External links == * [https://github.com/henrystanley/Quark/..." < 1587986724 584888 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587986745 562016 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1587986768 763095 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.81.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1587986793 221366 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Excess Flood < 1587986849 271602 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587986977 777577 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.105.4.242.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1587990981 224243 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1587992141 510076 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: oh yeah, that's one 2^ too many < 1587992151 671823 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I got carried away :) < 1587992214 758310 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe I went quantum. But that would put the "easily" in question. :) < 1587993083 343448 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5488:d172:88d2:bfca JOIN :#esoteric < 1587993253 371570 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587993269 196802 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a[256],c;main(){for(;~(c=getchar());a[c]++);for(;c<256;c++)while(a[c]--)putchar(c);} => ideas on golfing this tiny program? < 1587993321 328762 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:592d:e764:75a1:aba QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1587993905 841653 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :eww, that accesses a[-1] < 1587993957 179040 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :golfing c is often not done in a memory safe fassion, i guess < 1587994133 391016 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The access of a[-1] sounds fixable by making the latter loop `for(;++c<256;)` which would also be one character shorter than `for(;c<256;c++)`. < 1587994155 592617 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a[257],c;main(){while(c=getchar()+1)a[c]++;while(c<257)a[c]--?putchar(c-1):c++;} < 1587994167 636863 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it possible to squeeze it all into a single loop? < 1587994201 778327 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's possible of course, but is it worthwhile in terms of size? < 1587994387 129493 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh there's this trick, too: a[257];main(c){while(c=getchar()+1)a[c]++;while(c<257)a[c]--?putchar(c-1):c++;} < 1587994411 396568 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn :p < 1587994417 171538 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot about it < 1587994472 429790 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a[257];main(c){for(c=getchar()+1;a[c]++);while(c<257)a[c]--?putchar(c-1):c++;} < 1587994475 205991 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is even smaller < 1587994486 489631 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait: nope doesn't work < 1587994487 517945 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: but doesn't work < 1587994501 649721 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :need one more semicolon < 1587994507 860457 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's equal size :p < 1587994518 753922 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no point in replacing while(cond) by for(;cond;) unless you actually use those empty blocks for something. < 1587994566 842561 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah true < 1587994659 763060 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: it's a fine line... but out of bounds access can easily cause the program to misbehave, since you're relying on values of uninitialized (possibly not even present) memory. < 1587994985 612895 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1587995025 383789 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about a[c]--?putchar(c-1):c++; -> a[c++]--&&putchar(--c); to save one byte? < 1587995056 621042 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: cute idea, but it's off by one < 1587995063 574817 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh bummer < 1587995077 711438 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah < 1587995089 332415 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd have to be (c-=2) and then it doesn't save you anything < 1587995161 912153 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, not quite.. but yeah, off-by-one in the output < 1587995275 529127 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1201 < 1587995277 3900 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1201: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas < 1587995395 630971 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how kspalaiologos feels about this kind of undefined behavior: a[257];main(d,c){for(;d<257;)c?a[c=getchar()+1]++:a[d]--?putchar(d-1):d++;} < 1587995408 598148 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm always up for UB < 1587995428 847922 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and reliance on argc being 1) < 1587995445 684359 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes code "interesting" < 1587995533 168085 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 > 1587995539 556880 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Halt halt halt14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71446&oldid=70593 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* Properties */ typofix < 1587995564 73167 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in any case, putting it all into a single loop seems to pay off. < 1587995633 291567 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, a bit cleaner: a[257],d;main(c){while(d<256)c?a[c=getchar()+1]++:a[d+1]--?putchar(d):d++;} < 1587995705 63424 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, what exactly is wrong with FireFly's trick then... < 1587995718 279538 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it should be --c-1 < 1587995744 326032 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I accounted for the ++ with a -- but didn't account for the off-by-one in the value actually passed to putchar < 1587995769 621609 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but I changed something and now it applies: //a[257],d;main(c){while(d<256)c?a[c=getchar()+1]++:a[d+1]--?putchar(d):d++;} < 1587995775 33791 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1587995778 587233 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a[257],d;main(c){while(d<256)c?a[c=getchar()+1]++:a[++d]--&&putchar(--d);} < 1587995780 163382 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one. < 1587995797 155129 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh neat < 1587995933 452187 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(something: I shifted the counter by 1) < 1587995943 786146 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.81.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi hello have a good day < 1587996001 756369 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1587996057 37351 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's 10 characters chopped off, as good a point to stop as any :) < 1587997707 992424 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1587997850 397583 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” > 1587998321 146280 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bugmaker14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71447&oldid=54950 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* Gotchas */ < 1587999521 328709 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1587999801 434983 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I give up on my idea. Applicative languages something something concatenative languages something combinators something combinators something, that's my reason for why it doesn't work. < 1587999945 27738 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: if you want to do linear programming, you should go into math instead of computer science *runs* < 1588000092 708541 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to work out the basis for that joke < 1588000145 235466 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :concatenative -> linear representations of programs < 1588000162 502920 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did it for the pun. < 1588000167 38940 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no excuse. < 1588000196 541688 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And I'm assuming you're aware of the traditional meaning of "linear programming") < 1588000211 784461 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588000274 735316 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I thought it might be because I had so many unknowns in my statement. < 1588000314 863456 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's also why I used 'basis' < 1588000316 776536 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknowns... maybe in isolation, but I had too much context for that, I think. < 1588000341 432508 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, darn. I missed the "basis". < 1588000421 941510 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is pretty good in connection with the simplex algorithm (which is about identifying the right basis to make optimality obvious). < 1588000549 633022 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello! < 1588000597 817280 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi rain1 < 1588000638 139571 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/3627784/does-the-fraction-of-distinct-substrings-in-prefixes-of-the-thue-morse-sequence the problem about thue-morse substrings has been answered < 1588001123 304838 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( Is that a yes or a no? ) > 1588001833 119471 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Do loop until failure14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71448&oldid=45251 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-15) 10/* Implementations */ fixed python logic error (what if doSomething() failed the first time? then the program would exit) > 1588002063 22280 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Call/cc14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71449&oldid=69568 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-1) 10/* A cryptic metaphor */ typo < 1588002751 60214 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: rebooting < 1588002809 368263 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1588003135 813880 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 > 1588003214 182181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07C--14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71450 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+323) 10Created page with "'''C--''' is a programming language created by Simon Peyton Jones and Norman Ramsey. It is designed to be generated mainly by compilers for high-level languages, rather than b..." < 1588003952 742090 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1588004232 815077 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1588004384 452846 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1588004420 136268 :Deewiant_!~deewiant@de1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1588004733 747488 :b_jonas_!~x@176.63.12.50 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588004794 593523 :Melvar`!~melvar@dslb-084-063-063-106.084.063.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588004794 777997 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588004794 815239 :nchambers!uplime@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588004794 852484 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588004794 852546 :ornxka!~ornxka@unaffiliated/ornx QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588004794 925614 :aji!~alex@unaffiliated/aji QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588004794 962955 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588004795 5422 :Deewiant!~deewiant@de1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588004829 786400 :ornxka!~ornxka@unaffiliated/ornx JOIN :#esoteric < 1588004929 533428 :nchambers!uplime@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers JOIN :#esoteric < 1588005110 507679 :Melvar`!~melvar@dslb-084-063-063-106.084.063.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1588005163 162996 :aji!~alex@unaffiliated/aji JOIN :#esoteric < 1588005163 163072 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1588005631 58830 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07L14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71451&oldid=71433 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-51) 10/* Python 3 */ fix py > 1588005976 128216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MMP14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71452&oldid=52999 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+78) 10fix typo,cat add,etc < 1588006577 992816 :b_jonas_!~x@176.63.12.50 NICK :b_jonas < 1588006712 682800 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric > 1588006857 612973 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0711CORTLANG14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71453&oldid=65079 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-48) 10/* Syntax and commands */ remove Example || Example rows < 1588008058 786267 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588008378 650074 :aji!~alex@unaffiliated/aji QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588008378 650143 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588008378 809112 :Melvar`!~melvar@dslb-084-063-063-106.084.063.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588008573 751976 :aji!~alex@unaffiliated/aji JOIN :#esoteric < 1588008573 830781 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1588008581 400504 :Melvar`!~melvar@dslb-084-063-063-106.084.063.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1588010043 863284 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1588010091 940381 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1588010257 699670 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1588010348 123924 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1588010425 287980 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588011614 771244 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588012029 952658 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588012121 681403 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1588012350 294354 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1588012792 788931 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5488:d172:88d2:bfca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588013878 812860 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588014125 673415 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1588014547 404371 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1588014633 764959 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@193.150.231.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588014633 949308 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@193.150.231.149 QUIT :Changing host < 1588014633 949352 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1588014811 319673 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5488:d172:88d2:bfca JOIN :#esoteric < 1588014844 799931 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1588014896 962306 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1588015426 601843 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5488:d172:88d2:bfca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588015943 641714 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1588017862 767227 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.81.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588017863 433310 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1588018838 847693 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588019180 301213 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5488:d172:88d2:bfca JOIN :#esoteric < 1588019234 47911 :j-bot!~jbot@80.83.124.85 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588019250 741188 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu JOIN :#esoteric < 1588019256 747068 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1588019564 645371 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this a figlet text? http://sprunge.us/wPJwBH < 1588019720 406214 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yuvwmasbkjqjqzof JOIN :#esoteric < 1588019910 768708 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks identical to what I get as the output from `figlet 'Bye for Now'`, at least. < 1588019937 566509 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5488:d172:88d2:bfca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588020242 770644 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588020425 160300 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK > 1588020648 790769 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Awib14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71454&oldid=16220 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+12) 10fix link > 1588020716 835834 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07KanjiCode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71455&oldid=61390 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+41) 10fix link > 1588020858 651235 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Awib14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71456&oldid=71454 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+7) 10fix link, remove redlink > 1588020874 707963 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Awib14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71457&oldid=71456 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+14) 10lower title > 1588021049 263955 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07APLBAONWSJAS14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71458&oldid=58569 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-116) 10there is a python interpreter linked < 1588022034 765741 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588022240 596051 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5488:d172:88d2:bfca JOIN :#esoteric < 1588022922 210660 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5488:d172:88d2:bfca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588023101 745279 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1588025040 30851 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`smlist 516 < 1588025041 730750 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :smlist 516: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy Cale < 1588025362 817925 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds > 1588025429 447728 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Skiforth14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71459&oldid=71438 5* 03Orby 5* (+168) 10Adding link to bootable ISO < 1588025502 184299 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :First stab at turning skiforth into a stand alone OS like a proper forth went pretty well < 1588025505 308671 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :boots with grub < 1588026160 296920 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588026504 329441 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5488:d172:88d2:bfca JOIN :#esoteric < 1588027160 413473 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :anybody know of any other esolangs that would make interesting OSes? < 1588027167 785919 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a framework now, might as well use it < 1588027174 993327 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not sure. < 1588027191 529019 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything with a repl would work really < 1588027264 867453 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be cool to have a bootable iso that could multiboot a variety of esolang OSes < 1588027271 776171 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does you os different from an interpreter besides the ability to boot into it? < 1588027305 506765 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :ring-0 access, so the ability to play with the hardware and full access to the cpu and ram < 1588027321 430979 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for most uses, no major difference < 1588027331 239378 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :would just be funny to write device drivers in brainfuck < 1588027351 512979 :b_jonas!~x@176.63.12.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: so like easier to accidentally lose all your data with an OS < 1588027352 151773 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for various degrees of fun < 1588027375 14076 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't see why you'd need a repl < 1588027376 520225 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: indeed. virtualbox is probably a smart way to go. < 1588027382 28648 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just make an inbuilt editor < 1588027382 519222 :b_jonas!~x@176.63.12.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there's no OS layer to enforce permissions on your user process < 1588027410 354393 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're saying that like it's a bad thing ;) < 1588027432 977412 :b_jonas!~x@176.63.12.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people consider it a good thing < 1588027449 303203 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :having an editor and an interpreter would open your framework up to all ascii based 2d languages < 1588027477 107642 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: that's an interesting idea < 1588027487 342989 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd rather write a device driver in befunge than in brainfuck < 1588027530 584378 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1588028206 759629 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :In principal you could have a standalone booting Brainfuck environment, but I foresee it being very difficult to do usefully. < 1588028289 750968 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's https://github.com/catseye/BefOS < 1588028518 511080 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and lame" ;/ < 1588028545 284259 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588028609 556354 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also the https://www.bedroomlan.org/hardware/fungus/ if you wanted to design some hardware where that sort of thing would make more sense. < 1588028737 752512 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a CPU design course at the university where the main project was a MIPS CPU, but you could've gotten some extra points for adding a coprocessor of any kind, and we did think about doing a Befunge one but couldn't be bothered. < 1588028804 67910 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :FWIW, any sort of "Befunge with subroutines" variant would probably be pretty practical as a basis for an environment. It's not particularly dissimilar from Forth, which people do use for that sort of thing. < 1588028864 329924 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if people actually made it possible to boot nodejs < 1588029325 256904 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1588029812 390289 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588030010 787204 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588030013 705491 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1588030785 626346 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid QUIT :Quit: activating thermonuclear warhead, please wait < 1588030785 707512 :noomy!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Quit: ZNC server is being destroyed by a catastrophic nuclear event. Please wait. < 1588030785 815958 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator QUIT :Quit: Segmentation fault > 1588031545 363300 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MangularJS14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71460 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+738) 10Created page with "'''MangularJS''' is a restricted subset of NodeJS by [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow]]. ==Restrictions== * No periods are allowed in the source code, in a string or otherwise,..." < 1588032945 363408 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1588033488 587652 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yuvwmasbkjqjqzof QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1588033589 872939 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:5488:d172:88d2:bfca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1588034888 78831 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MangularJS14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71461&oldid=71460 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+527) 10Finish pop() > 1588034927 30978 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71462&oldid=71421 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+17) 10/* M */ < 1588035584 771577 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can a dictionary be installed with both Canadian spelling? "aptitude show ispell-dictionary" mentions American and British, but not Canadian (which uses a combination of American and British spellings; in most cases, Canadian spelling matches whichever spelling is older, which is often British but not always). < 1588039757 339212 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1588039984 795238 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1588042578 734901 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1588042774 351506 :Bowserinator_!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator JOIN :#esoteric < 1588042777 786260 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1588042861 358683 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid JOIN :#esoteric < 1588042878 187674 :Bowserinator_!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator QUIT :Client Quit < 1588042878 299160 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid QUIT :Client Quit < 1588045216 850042 :Train!ca9a8084@202-154-128-132.ras-dynamic.connections.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1588045276 182473 :Train!ca9a8084@202-154-128-132.ras-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gudday. < 1588045284 479516 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1588045304 313612 :Train!ca9a8084@202-154-128-132.ras-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. You seem like you are always online. < 1588045340 853080 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy enough these days < 1588045346 141563 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :what else is there to do, I guess < 1588045972 821622 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like GURPS game? < 1588045996 986710 :Train!ca9a8084@202-154-128-132.ras-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1588046059 253398 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't played it since, like, 2010, but I did enjoy it < 1588046071 688119 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I lied, 2012 < 1588046274 805391 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I played the GURPS on Sunday on the computer, and also a few weeks ago also on the computer. I also recorded all of them on the computer I rewrote it to write the story to read it < 1588046296 565380 :Train!ca9a8084@202-154-128-132.ras-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1588046426 709689 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are readable on a Fossil wiki at http://zzo38computer.org/gurpsgame/1.ui but you can also download the Hamster archive with the files. If you find any mistake in it, please notify me. < 1588046489 493604 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The link I made to the figlet text from before is also from the GURPS game; since there is only one player I can use a direct connection and don't need IRC, and that is what the GM sent; I suppose he used a figlet text. < 1588046630 664687 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Train: I think that you should write about your esolang in the esolang wiki < 1588046695 757759 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can access http://zzo38computer.org/gurpsgame/1.har if you want to download the Hamster archive file. A Hamster archive is a sequence of lumps, where each lump consists of the null-terminated ASCII filename, 32-bit PDP-endian data size, and then the data.) < 1588046737 996992 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why am I not surprised you have a bespoke archive format. < 1588046766 499250 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I appreciate the PDP-endian size. < 1588046780 639738 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is amusing, to be sure. < 1588046807 324906 :Train!ca9a8084@202-154-128-132.ras-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I don't know if I should write about my esolang. It needs some tidying up. < 1588046883 116358 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't invent it. (If I did, I probably would have used big-endian or small-endian instead of PDP-endian. The format is otherwise good though, and keeping the same format allows better compatibility with other programs using the same format.) < 1588046972 811065 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(PDP-endian isn't so bad either, since it is just as easy to work with, so I am not complaining about it.) < 1588047095 947903 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Train: What you wrote on sprunge seem like good enough to me < 1588047130 11261 :Train!ca9a8084@202-154-128-132.ras-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a few cases of undefined behaviour. < 1588047191 133643 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes, such as you don't specify what happen in case of end of file. < 1588047203 476647 :Train!ca9a8084@202-154-128-132.ras-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can never reach EOF. < 1588047226 966998 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the case of the "d" command, the input might reach EOF, though. < 1588047261 522997 :Train!ca9a8084@202-154-128-132.ras-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, because it only takes 1 byte of input, which is the first byte of input from the input < 1588047290 343604 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, well, you didn't mention that in the document. < 1588047306 846313 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Nor does that make much sense to me.) < 1588047312 978931 :Train!ca9a8084@202-154-128-132.ras-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's why the documentation is incomplete. < 1588047356 28387 :Train!ca9a8084@202-154-128-132.ras-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if the lines are different lengths, the interpreter is just like: < 1588047357 59759 :Train!ca9a8084@202-154-128-132.ras-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://i.imgflip.com/36qm8e.png < 1588047379 676921 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't specify the range of values in cells either, although based on what we discussed before it should be unlimited. < 1588047402 387507 :Train!ca9a8084@202-154-128-132.ras-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. It has to be unlimited to be Turing complete. < 1588047441 743830 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, yes, about the program lines being different lengths; presumably the program is not valid if the lines are of different lengths, although one thing that it could be made to do is to pad them with spaces on the right. < 1588047476 919016 :Train!ca9a8084@202-154-128-132.ras-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought about that, but then it does have some interesting repercussions on the complexity. < 1588047509 132554 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another possibility is just to display an error message. < 1588047517 506298 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and refuse to execute the program) < 1588047529 212684 :Train!ca9a8084@202-154-128-132.ras-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, it can either crash the interpreter or undefined behaviour. < 1588047559 611227 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also just explicitly specify that it is undefined behaviour if such a program is given. < 1588047579 453893 :Train!ca9a8084@202-154-128-132.ras-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps. < 1588047594 816261 :Train!ca9a8084@202-154-128-132.ras-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll do the error messages and tidy up the interpreter now. < 1588047797 854436 :Train!ca9a8084@202-154-128-132.ras-dynamic.connections.net.nz QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588048075 828986 :Train!ca9a8738@202-154-135-56.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1588050306 160245 :Train!ca9a8738@202-154-135-56.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588052386 790351 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588052744 365136 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1588055601 261439 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I invented a chess variant, which is: If you en-passan an opponent's pawn, then you may optionally take any piece from off of the board (regardless of colour; you may even take the pawn that was just captured) and put it in the place of the captured pawn. You also must take a queen/knight/rook/bishop from off of the board for promotation; you can't have more than you started with. < 1588056623 308245 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:449d:6e58:5fb2:4787 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588059843 858129 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588060139 724320 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess what it is, is this: in an applicative setting you can have combinators that operate on combinators to obtain new combinators; in a concatenative setting, you have, um, concatenatees, that operate on states to obtain new states, and which you concatenate together to produce new concatenatees. < 1588060262 708732 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you insist on looking at concatenatees as combinators, each one takes exactly one other combinator, and produces a new combinator, but this has to terminate somewhere, and in the end you still have something that takes states to states instead < 1588060423 127361 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you say something like "states are combinators too", then that just sort of begs the question of where you draw the boundary between the combinators that are part of "the state" and the combinators that are part of "the program". < 1588060496 947229 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1588060524 897590 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588060830 976851 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588061493 887865 :LKoen_!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588061771 989216 :LKoen_!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 NICK :LKoen < 1588062639 113810 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear, joining #proglangdesign now requires "identification with services". < 1588062948 458416 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not sure it's worth setting that up just for a channel where most of the content is people trying to prove they have deeper understandings of substructal logics than other people < 1588063538 983952 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1588064429 347033 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: A bunch of channels turned that on temporarily becaue of some spam. < 1588064569 809743 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh hi shachaf. Hadn't seen you around for a while, wondered if you had given up on IRC. < 1588064802 72999 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.81.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1588066473 793478 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588067319 746086 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588069440 820919 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588070420 159854 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588070426 733556 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso JOIN :#esoteric < 1588071533 671718 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1588071962 660914 :lynn_!sid154965@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qhrpzgxcylkpquuh QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1588072505 805645 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588072583 950152 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1588073072 835303 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588073235 372602 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1588073240 976298 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1588073572 141174 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1588074232 823266 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1588075125 783010 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Morning all < 1588075165 184590 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.81.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :good day! < 1588077094 825730 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588077473 745216 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1588077680 232979 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1588077971 828278 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive got into studying maths again < 1588078170 213953 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its hard to know the right thing to study though > 1588078202 612593 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MangularJS14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71463&oldid=71461 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+65) 10/* Stack class */ < 1588078390 810205 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Springer just made a number of their textbooks free to download as e-books: https://github.com/alexgand/springer_free_books < 1588078436 76876 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In particular there's Kozen's "Automata and Computability": https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007%2F978-1-4612-1844-9 < 1588078939 33920 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: Do you have any favourite parts of mathematics? < 1588078971 729529 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah algebra, number theory, codes and groups ithink < 1588078975 450817 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :symmetries too < 1588079010 176766 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill try that springer book, i grabbed 'proofs from teh book' < 1588079105 389747 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proofs from THE BOOK is on the list, interesting. < 1588079151 319722 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting, i didn't know out uni president wrote something like that < 1588079222 14343 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, rain1 beat me to that observation. Anyway, link: http://doi.org/10.1007/978-3-662-57265-8 < 1588079254 878890 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric > 1588080025 72833 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71464&oldid=71424 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+44) 10/* Languages */ < 1588080143 418988 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Introduction to Programming with Fortran" < 1588080270 815572 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Entertainment Science" < 1588082440 677453 :b_jonas!~x@176.63.12.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ah yes, a lot of publishers advertised such a deal with books. And when I follow them, it usually turns out that it only applies to a few uninteresting books, not the ones I'm looking for. < 1588082480 213729 :b_jonas!~x@176.63.12.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can be fooled once more, so I'll look at this Springer deal. > 1588083385 416806 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MangularJS14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71465&oldid=71463 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+177) 10/* Restrictions */ < 1588085790 280905 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1588085851 300899 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588089994 780570 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1588094799 315734 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588095417 188369 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:449d:6e58:5fb2:4787 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588095694 673882 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588095702 441587 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:449d:6e58:5fb2:4787 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588096314 335817 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric > 1588097387 93346 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Skiforth14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71466&oldid=71459 5* 03Orby 5* (+32) 10 < 1588098051 315017 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric > 1588099002 324627 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/RandomNameGenerator14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71467&oldid=71336 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+272) 10try it online < 1588100008 884688 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1588100595 366410 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1588101683 561364 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588102135 989031 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.81.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1588102291 959439 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1588103445 479643 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1588103562 864814 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588103914 826350 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1588106259 511372 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:449d:6e58:5fb2:4787 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588106486 529279 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:449d:6e58:5fb2:4787 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588108557 341864 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1588108656 791387 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1588108729 799666 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1588108739 186548 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote this http://sprunge.us/jdR90S which is my current plan how to make the random pack generation working for TeXnicard. Do you think it is good enough? Do you have other comments of it please? < 1588109275 102889 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:449d:6e58:5fb2:4787 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588111001 773094 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588111098 806289 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1588112575 557681 :opticnerve!~opticnerv@host4-129-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1588113095 272220 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :A file I found mentions "simulated collation", which is simulating the printing and packaging process of official sets. This is something I have thought of for TeXnicard too, although I forgot when writing the document I linked, although I can easily add it; if you specify a name with / at first then it is a sheet name. < 1588113187 930164 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says "Due to the required effort on the set designer's part of making card lists of the print sheets, no custom sets use this method so far", although with TeXnicard it will be easy enough to make card lists of print sheets, since rendering templates use the "setsheets" PostScript procedure to specify which sheet to print it on. < 1588114050 824818 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found another set of documents about the card collation in Magic: the Gathering. < 1588114270 742299 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1588114666 497385 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1588114722 115428 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not entirely understand it, though. < 1588114740 56179 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :link? < 1588114759 360556 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.lethe.xyz/mtg/collation/ < 1588114762 454647 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I decided to add automatic church numerals to skiforth and I have mixed feelings about it < 1588114765 578379 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am reading it though to see how it is working < 1588114772 690926 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's kind of useful, but not strictly necessary < 1588114775 667626 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1588114791 423989 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: I expect adding automatic numbers would make the program run more efficiently > 1588114810 668462 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minimal operation language14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71468&oldid=71214 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (-13) 10/* Resources */ No longer dead < 1588114831 186205 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, definitely, I've been trying to strike a balance between some kind of usability and keeping it minimal < 1588114856 360294 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if I add RAM access, automatic numbers will be very handy < 1588114869 639878 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1588115073 36918 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine that would be hard to use without them, yeah < 1588115080 4672 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:7c0f:e579:676:276d JOIN :#esoteric < 1588115090 867936 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38:: what piqued your interest in collation? < 1588115099 75188 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is an interesting document < 1588115127 562410 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: Well, I want to make the random pack generation working for TeXnicard. One way to do it would be simulated collation, although there is other way too. < 1588115147 473190 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is TeXnicard? < 1588115149 339843 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I intend it can be supported both ways. < 1588115172 75569 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :See http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/texnicard.ui for a description of TeXnicard. < 1588115189 62641 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you interested in custom cards for Magic: the Gathering or other card games? < 1588115275 34770 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, interesting. I am interested in making card games, so it looks useful in that context. < 1588115291 207064 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dabble in making games on ocassion < 1588115293 373201 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588115327 938810 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have further questions after reading the documentation, please tell me so that I may add them into the documentation and/or the frequently asked questions section. You can ask me here, or on my NNTP server, or in the Fossil ticketing system. < 1588115361 980317 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:7c0f:e579:676:276d QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1588115394 96133 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although the ticketing system is meant mainly for bug reports and feature requests. General discussion should preferably use the NNTP.) < 1588115459 715973 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool, will do! < 1588115483 644729 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a friend who is especially into making games (even moreso than myself) and would also find it very interesting < 1588115540 302615 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: would your texnicard software be recommended for card games other than magic? < 1588115555 953250 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :say I want to make cards for dominion < 1588115583 449467 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: you would probably be interested in Dvorak as well < 1588115597 168984 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :LKoen: Yes, it is intended to be generic and not specific to Magic: the Gathering. < 1588115607 578990 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds great < 1588115749 9099 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: see https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/9010/dvorak and http://www.dvorakgame.co.uk/index.php/Main_Page < 1588115801 192169 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :LKoen: Thanks! < 1588115838 296652 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea of the game is usually to make cards as the game goes < 1588115849 95363 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the second link is a wiki full of pre-made decks < 1588115897 867924 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably implement the paragraph formatting. (If you want to use it now, you would have to use PostScript text rendering instead, although I intend to implement TeX-like paragraph formatting too, using TeX fonts. PostScript text rendering will remain available, though, since that feature is included "for free".) < 1588116292 444708 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588116430 878516 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1588116465 499393 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1588116757 801696 :opticnerve!~opticnerv@host4-129-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds > 1588118114 754832 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07CopyPasta Language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71469&oldid=70456 5* 03Rerednaw 5* (+99) 10 < 1588118411 314565 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:11ab:25ba:5799:af09 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588118511 339768 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bgracqilsytkjlbb JOIN :#esoteric < 1588118721 322170 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:11ab:25ba:5799:af09 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1588121263 756135 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One feature I do not intend to implement in TeXnicard is hyphenation, since it should hopefully be unnecessary. < 1588122925 972237 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588123393 797853 :RAILR0AD!~RAILR0AD@161.sub-174-202-26.myvzw.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1588123524 435783 :RAILR0AD!~RAILR0AD@161.sub-174-202-26.myvzw.com PART :#esoteric < 1588124897 984261 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:11ab:25ba:5799:af09 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588125082 830975 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588125192 984131 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:11ab:25ba:5799:af09 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1588125270 743978 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588126269 514523 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bgracqilsytkjlbb QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1588126666 64219 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Fwander 5* 10New user account > 1588126979 689896 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71470&oldid=71355 5* 03Fwander 5* (+303) 10 < 1588129892 327864 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :LKoen: I don't know about Dominion, although from the instructions on the wiki you linked about Dvorak game, it would seem making templates for Dvorak would nto be so difficult. < 1588130350 578078 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 JOIN :#esoteric > 1588131446 890708 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07AAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! Turing-completeness proof14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71471&oldid=71411 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+65) 10Program modification: !'s were missing > 1588131481 911248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07AAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! Turing-completeness proof14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71472&oldid=71471 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+4) 10/* Assumptions */ noted->commented < 1588132171 79345 :shinh!~i@129.EC0234U.cyberhome.ne.jp QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1588133136 408176 :shinh!~i@129.EC0234U.cyberhome.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric > 1588133533 829817 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:YamTokTpaFa/sandbox314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71473&oldid=67040 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+432) 10 < 1588133751 833483 :Riccaird!3e620dc3@62.98.13.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588133924 136619 :Riccaird!3e620dc3@62.98.13.195 PART :#esoteric < 1588134046 450939 :Riccaird!3e620dc3@62.98.13.195 JOIN :#esoteric > 1588134284 798071 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:YamTokTpaFa/sandbox314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71474&oldid=71473 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+415) 10 > 1588135808 185962 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:YamTokTpaFa/sandbox314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71475&oldid=71474 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+748) 10 < 1588135821 351985 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:554a:eee:a60b:1dea JOIN :#esoteric < 1588136125 343419 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:554a:eee:a60b:1dea QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds > 1588136293 169695 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:YamTokTpaFa/sandbox314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71476&oldid=71475 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+171) 10/* Variations */ > 1588136318 147252 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:YamTokTpaFa/sandbox314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71477&oldid=71476 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (-367) 10 > 1588136476 329970 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:YamTokTpaFa/sandbox314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71478&oldid=71477 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (-2402) 10moving by copy and paste > 1588136512 467616 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0714]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71479 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+2430) 10Created page with "The '''''' (''Zundoko Kiyoshi'') function, also known as '''''' (''Kiyoshi check'') or '''''' (''Zundoko chec..." < 1588139093 3952 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:554a:eee:a60b:1dea JOIN :#esoteric < 1588139373 982821 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:554a:eee:a60b:1dea QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1588140540 629912 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric : ;; Enchantment - Aura ;; Enchant permanent ;; When enchanted permanent would become tapped, instead that permanent becomes tapped and ~ gets a new timestamp. ;; Enchanted permanent loses all abilities while tapped. > 1588140630 659026 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Butterbrain14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71480 5* 03Fwander 5* (+8102) 10Created page with "=ButterBrain= '''ButterBrain''' is an esolang heavily inspired by [[Brainfuck]]. Butterbrain and brainfuck both share the idea of a strip of memory cells that can be looked at..." > 1588140823 910040 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Fwander14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71481 5* 03Fwander 5* (+34) 10Created page with "===Contrbutions=== [[butterbrain]]" > 1588140923 631609 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71482&oldid=71462 5* 03Fwander 5* (+18) 10/* B */ < 1588141421 7329 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What name and mana cost and other changes? < 1588141867 329465 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:554a:eee:a60b:1dea JOIN :#esoteric < 1588143778 740874 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588143917 150660 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:554a:eee:a60b:1dea QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588144158 987600 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:554a:eee:a60b:1dea JOIN :#esoteric < 1588144879 977006 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588144953 452706 :rawr!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble NICK :grumble < 1588145656 898053 :Riccaird!3e620dc3@62.98.13.195 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588145703 835149 :Ricciard!3e620dc3@62.98.13.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588146089 50956 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.81.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1588149296 834269 :Ricciard!3e620dc3@62.98.13.195 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1588149413 859205 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588150084 331246 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1588150087 332507 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588150596 989656 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds > 1588150848 103105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Butterbrain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71483&oldid=71480 5* 03Voltage2007 5* (+6) 10 < 1588150905 439403 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1588151752 492037 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588151965 861538 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1588152844 1865 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588156365 814619 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588156783 90770 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Jot page gives a method for translating SKI terms to Jot terms but it doesn't seem to say what to do with parentheses. < 1588156798 662331 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or am I missing it? < 1588156850 226986 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the parens are not part of it < 1588156856 165389 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just working on the AST directly < 1588156903 639494 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nyu.edu/projects/barker/Iota/ -- scroll down to "Here are the rules for mapping an arbitrary CL program into Jot:" < 1588156924 991205 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fail to see how that translation gives different results for, say, I(SK) and (IS)K < 1588156978 929760 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it understood that you translate starting at the deepest nested terms? < 1588157000 431259 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me see < 1588157058 493382 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so SK maps to *[i*i*i*ii][*i*i*ii] < 1588157077 686610 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and IS maps to *[*ii][*i*i*i*ii] < 1588157098 520719 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's Iota; Jot is halfway down the page < 1588157107 806100 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah sorry im reading the wrong bit < 1588157126 142236 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and the square brackets aren't a thing < 1588157129 282074 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the mapping < 1588157173 839923 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so [I(SK)] = 1[I][SK] = 1[I]1[S][K] = 1[I]11111100011100 < 1588157200 212837 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and [(IS)K] = 1[IS][K] = 11[I][S][K] = 11[I]1111100011100 < 1588157226 535130 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so having the 1 is in a different place seems the only difference, for the bracketing < 1588157727 791008 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so the translation has to follow the nesting. Thanks. < 1588158082 749099 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit clearer to me if I think of there being an implicit "apply" operator in between A and B in a term like AB. < 1588158094 107559 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Lunch. > 1588159181 454405 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Unpseudorandom14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71484 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+356) 10Created page with "I just realised: code after a . mightn't be redundant if it's within a loop. Loops that have . in a loop as their last command may be useful. If some..." < 1588159522 389341 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588159710 758139 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588159712 217817 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life > 1588159715 447867 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Babalang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71485&oldid=71239 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+62) 10Add date and author < 1588160466 782177 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1588160488 872153 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588160941 433363 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble QUIT :Quit: Well, would you look at the time. I've almost missed my ambiguous, non-existent appointment that I have scheduled just when I start to lose interest in my current conversation. < 1588161242 780441 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble JOIN :#esoteric < 1588162231 740640 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588162580 641170 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588163962 409259 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fnfzxmalbwminyna JOIN :#esoteric < 1588166323 862264 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric > 1588167428 799989 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Babalang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71486&oldid=71485 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* Objects */ < 1588167805 986323 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric > 1588172078 543216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:AnimaLibera14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71487&oldid=66840 5* 03AnimaLibera 5* (+308) 10()Oo0 < 1588172479 917997 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1588173002 101438 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588173203 165686 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588173400 492771 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1588173551 933361 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588174305 800532 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1588175595 741796 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.105.9.236.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1588175727 386026 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fnfzxmalbwminyna QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1588175762 513786 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: A la prochaine. < 1588175779 993039 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.81.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1588175870 564694 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1588178642 799534 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588178962 796936 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1588182182 157393 :b_jonas!~x@176.63.12.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` words --pokemon 10 < 1588182184 835293 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :zekrow palon basauroth pet sawsbuck lycanroc decidueye munchkrok deerlia sandoom < 1588182195 682011 :b_jonas!~x@176.63.12.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1588183407 821504 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1588183570 877867 :Bowserinator!~Bowserina@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator JOIN :#esoteric < 1588184080 346584 :iovoid!~iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid JOIN :#esoteric < 1588184082 359131 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like to play Pokemon card or Pokemon mahjong? < 1588184159 631356 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you know how to make my Pokemon mahjong rules work for next generation of Pokemon? < 1588184160 878670 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :`coins < 1588184166 169119 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​07sbeescoin 08advvitcoin 09108coin 02.coin 06prouplomicoin 13pureheadcoin 04hexcoin 07thcoin 08divzerofibcoin 09eloughcoin 02bagatacoin 06bam128coin 13ztracktrobaz,ohmy!coin 04decastaikcoin 07157.6coin 08worbcoin 09fmularerowcoin 02enrokcoin 06///coin 13ernameoncoin < 1588184199 102436 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :`coins < 1588184200 857893 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​13polyncoin 04eta-julecoin 07tractcoin 08gasoitcoin 09bradolcoin 02steacoin 06junxcoin 13backing-boolcoin 04mdpcoin 07braicoin 08dolcoin 09nuctcoin 02verizzocoin 06barinworscoin 13rnadermacoin 04picoin 07carandahcoin 08eteneverscoin 09resorthtcoin 02restrecoin < 1588184245 114377 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :manic dream pixie coin < 1588184269 374287 :moony!~moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric < 1588184327 825168 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far I have rules for alternate forms of pokemons up to generation VII; I don't have generation VIII or IX or X yet, and I also don't know if other rules might need updated for that too. < 1588184360 680235 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: The rules support playing any number of generations from only one to all of them, which effectively makes later generations optional rules.) < 1588184432 189270 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also someone said they would abandon the numbering scheme of pokemon in future; if they do that then the mahjong game won't work with those generations, since the pokemon numbering scheme is a core part of the game. < 1588184572 905735 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Pretty < 1588184606 425402 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think they kinda already have -- since the national dex isn't even a thing anymore < 1588184610 84213 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sad < 1588184729 804494 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, they already did. Does that mean there are no more numbers for the latest generation? (Which generation is the latest one? I haven't kept track of it) < 1588184920 989673 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think they have national dex numbers at all in gen IX, no < 1588184952 124459 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gen VIII didn't have the national dex in the game, but Poke Bank did assign national dex numbers < 1588184971 613752 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, all the Pokemon were _in_ it, just w/out dex entries) < 1588185017 246756 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If, like gen II and later, they have internal numbers the same as the displayed numbers, then you can use those numbers even if they aren't displayed, I suppose, but depending on what they are doing, maybe that won't work. < 1588185031 538028 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:554a:eee:a60b:1dea QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588185198 890431 :atslash!~atslash@46.188.0.82 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588185232 394581 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:554a:eee:a60b:1dea JOIN :#esoteric < 1588185424 766525 :li_!~jo.2343@4.30.179.101 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588185437 704791 :li_!~jo.2343@4.30.179.101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi fuckers < 1588185499 899647 :atslash!~atslash@46.188.0.82 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1588185558 792620 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1588185570 723487 :li_!~jo.2343@4.30.179.101 QUIT :Client Quit < 1588186347 963771 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :My rules for Pokemon mahjong have many features that are not found in the standard Japanese mahjong game, such as the draft, wild cards, double-kind sequences, stones, the possibility to draw the dora indicator, additional irregular hands, etc. < 1588186388 235478 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And, ippatsu does not count for tsumo win.) > 1588187983 841798 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Alphabet Stew14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71488&oldid=69988 5* 03DMC 5* (+93) 10 < 1588188513 592046 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The BSD boggle game says 0% if you did not find any words because there aren't any words in the grid. < 1588188909 809128 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1588189502 742626 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.105.9.236.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588189792 299644 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588190176 826870 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588190254 879392 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588190320 388816 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1588190343 580045 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric > 1588190961 6125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Calcutape14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71489&oldid=62033 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+13) 10/* Implementations */ > 1588190989 144220 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Calcutape14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71490&oldid=71489 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+13) 10/* Implementations */ both dead links < 1588191550 607817 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: leaving > 1588191658 724086 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71491&oldid=71464 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+25) 10 < 1588193097 857435 :Train!ca9a86ed@202-154-134-237.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1588193130 505722 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which random number generator should I use, ACORN or ISAAC or something else? < 1588193229 73361 :Train!ca9a86ed@202-154-134-237.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on the use. It if's secure ISAAC, otherwise ACORN. < 1588193249 48844 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on what you need it for, really > 1588193285 231986 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Uack14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71492 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1415) 10Created page with "'''Uack''' is an esolang made by [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow]]. ==Memory model== An arbitrary-length stack. ==Datatypes== Datatypes are function (which always take an inte..." > 1588193376 66862 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71493&oldid=71491 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+94) 10/* Languages */ > 1588193438 822327 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71494&oldid=71428 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-1152) 10/* 2 */ < 1588193476 109045 :Train!ca9a86ed@202-154-134-237.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38? < 1588193500 830309 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I want it to be uniform and have a large period and difficult to predict > 1588193518 167165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/RandomNameGenerator14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71495&oldid=71467 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+430) 10 > 1588193540 480553 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71496&oldid=71482 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+11) 10/* U */ + [[Uack]] < 1588193573 64631 :Train!ca9a86ed@202-154-134-237.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACORN then. < 1588193608 382840 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Wikipedia article about "Pseudorandom number generator" lists the BSI evaulation criteria, of which there are K1, K2, K3, and K4. I care about K1 and K2 and K3, although K4 is less important. < 1588195405 821506 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course there are many other random generators too. > 1588195566 34360 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Quark14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71497&oldid=71445 5* 03Zzo38 5* (+23) 10 < 1588195891 740806 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1588196017 914175 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :[07:29.18] there isnt really AI. It is all based on us, people. It is an Australia Army Simulation < 1588196018 389991 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :[07:29.29] they want and may of simulated war in the 1950's < 1588196018 390053 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :[07:29.32] they want to simulate war < 1588196018 736756 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :[07:29.36] and enslave us all < 1588196018 736802 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :[07:30.13] Jesus Christ was the first one to simulate in 1994 at Lloyd St Enoggera < 1588196019 735487 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :[07:30.20] they want to kill him and simulate war < 1588196255 652122 :Train!ca9a86ed@202-154-134-237.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38? I have another question about Minsky machines. < 1588196298 587150 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Train: OK, what question? < 1588196527 268287 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:554a:eee:a60b:1dea QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588196591 375961 :Train!ca9a86ed@202-154-134-237.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I have to implement the entire Minsky machine in TrainCode or can I make a python program to evaluate Minsky instructions and turn them into TrainCode? < 1588196742 891545 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use a Python program to convert Minsky instructions into a TrainCode program, although the calculation that the Minsky program performs will need to be performed by the equivalent TrainCode program. < 1588196754 728398 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't know if I am being clearly enough, though.) < 1588196816 303964 :Train!ca9a86ed@202-154-134-237.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :So can the python program decide on the decrement parts and do the flow control, or does the TrainCode need to do flow control?? < 1588196860 691234 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Python program can convert the Minsky flow control into the TrainCode flow control. < 1588196950 32562 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :1994 the simulation, my IP ends in 194 < 1588196957 847174 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :1996 the matrix concept < 1588197009 369053 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. The Python program, when it finds a decrement command in the Minsky program, would add a n command into the TrainCode program, and then add mirrors and stuff in order to direct the flow control to the target command in the TrainCode program corresponding to that point in the Minsky program, which the Python program would keep track of.) < 1588197013 980715 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lloyd St Enoggera was where the first simulation happened < 1588197031 989985 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and coding is supposed to be like this... here's a coding language name for you... Leptorans < 1588197041 349254 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tradesta < 1588197044 287265 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trad-esta < 1588197061 955752 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :not python, windows, angular, react... its just rape < 1588197069 979981 :Train!ca9a86ed@202-154-134-237.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks zzo38, so I can't have flow control in the python program. < 1588197074 946347 :Train!ca9a86ed@202-154-134-237.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :this will be difficult < 1588197079 703392 :Train!ca9a86ed@202-154-134-237.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun! < 1588197093 383411 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yetoasda < 1588197099 823310 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :how could would that be < 1588197105 671441 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yetoasda coding language < 1588197123 753229 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you use react, angular, javascript... and java probably was something < 1588197125 942146 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its the americans < 1588197131 244641 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :start your own coding language < 1588197146 232340 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :java... what was the image with that? < 1588197342 578843 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:554a:eee:a60b:1dea JOIN :#esoteric < 1588197584 486003 :Train!ca9a86ed@202-154-134-237.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gudday. < 1588197606 806564 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that how they talk! < 1588197613 779599 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are finding out < 1588197626 527505 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you need to know < 1588197634 901175 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ONLY Jesus Christ can do this < 1588197639 52226 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a King < 1588197644 268457 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or THE king < 1588197670 310659 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :have a look at the crows < 1588197670 495937 :Train!ca9a86ed@202-154-134-237.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you a bot? < 1588197675 816771 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :no such thing < 1588197680 574643 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you think they are bots < 1588197684 909932 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are simulated PEOPLE < 1588197691 503253 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :who go through hell < 1588197693 89670 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slyda1: Well, I do not understand what a lot of what you mean anyways. But there is not the king in England so far, just the queen. And, Jesus Christ is dead since a long time ago. < 1588197701 984283 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder why the internet is getting worse? bots you say < 1588197705 510082 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are simulated PEOPLE < 1588197711 816313 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There was the king in the past, but now it is queen) < 1588197723 531726 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 you WILL find out! < 1588197757 773279 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Englands old king died because they changed the bible because the royals had the saints and they could < 1588197781 125555 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :edinburgh - garden of eden - phillip - lipton tea < 1588197793 550940 :Train!ca9a86ed@202-154-134-237.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, it's either a bot or a spammer. < 1588197796 43187 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason internet is getting worse is due to many things, including stupid people, idiotic people, and love of money. < 1588197819 450259 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :dont say there are bots! wait, if you do, you would be american, and you need to realise, in america, you are owned by the TV and food < 1588197826 718756 :Train!ca9a86ed@202-154-134-237.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It displays behavior much like GPT-2 < 1588197830 816660 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :TV system america < 1588197837 895811 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :americans are TVs < 1588197869 235323 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at the dates < 1588197870 807840 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :2020 < 1588197872 331983 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :2021 < 1588197874 356501 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :2022 < 1588197876 376288 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :2023 < 1588197878 61449 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :2024 < 1588197883 829381 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have big meanings < 1588197885 795229 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and are defined < 1588197917 357462 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 < 1588197920 815997 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you being simulated? < 1588197923 550209 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that like? < 1588197926 970916 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it must suck! < 1588197932 380039 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you just think its bad < 1588197935 327615 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :try to be dirty then < 1588197935 686630 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.o what's happening here < 1588197941 797117 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :keep your clothes dirty < 1588197946 84277 :Train!ca9a86ed@202-154-134-237.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's either a bot or a spammer. < 1588197949 193537 :Train!ca9a86ed@202-154-134-237.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just ignore it. < 1588197961 982693 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are being simulated, be dirty then < 1588197964 503203 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :get dirt on you < 1588197972 764232 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :keep your hair not brushed and dirty < 1588197978 521955 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :dont keep clean < 1588197991 214936 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :keep things in your house as you are or want to be < 1588198003 484530 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as you see it should be < 1588198013 710758 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :あたし分からぬわ < 1588198092 795713 :Train!ca9a86ed@202-154-134-237.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you broke it with the non-ASCII chars. < 1588198128 768185 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know cars drive in simulated packets? < 1588198143 69698 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever notice? < 1588198237 542326 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get a gun. Get your computer. A real smart one. Re-visit code, similar words, if you see the word repeated twice like _get_ *get*... revisit it then type something predatory.... Australia Army have no skill are robots radio controlled because of what they did to the messiah < 1588198252 880299 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :go to an army base with your computer < 1588198258 237478 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is one in brisbane city < 1588198263 818164 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :have a look on the walls < 1588198268 890663 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are driving outside now < 1588198279 679308 :Train!ca9a86ed@202-154-134-237.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :If any moderators are listening, please stop the spammer. < 1588198308 853148 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :say you are interested in what they do there < 1588198316 137600 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :then look at the pictures < 1588198321 25616 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :they will tell you something about it < 1588198328 857910 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :then have a look at your computer < 1588198332 198528 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :bring a coding book < 1588198333 686382 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :node.js < 1588198347 510955 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :write some things down < 1588198351 365170 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :have a look at a codex < 1588198359 872403 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or similar code < 1588198362 796664 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at your code < 1588198370 241217 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :then _program_ your code < 1588198375 758707 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :be a programmer < 1588198378 247217 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just a coder < 1588198387 176321 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :ops: ping < 1588198397 110758 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :program your code < 1588198400 694746 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :revisit your code < 1588198411 276495 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :highlight the code that strikes twice or four times < 1588198421 251832 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is all < 1588198434 122325 :Slyda1!~IceChat9@203-221-43-194.static.tpgi.com.au QUIT :Quit: IceChat - It's what Cool People use < 1588198465 239131 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, no need for any intervention. < 1588198478 647551 :Train!ca9a86ed@202-154-134-237.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just doubled the size of today's log files. < 1588198504 158194 :Train!ca9a86ed@202-154-134-237.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588198522 600971 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was off looking up the chanserv quiet syntax again. But it usually just gets people angry and avoiding and real noisy. < 1588199218 690135 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1588199540 832419 :Train!ca9a845f@202-154-132-95.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1588199570 45831 :Train!ca9a845f@202-154-132-95.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38... I think there might be an easier way to prove that TrainCode is TC. < 1588199699 124257 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:554a:eee:a60b:1dea QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588200277 439731 :Train!ca9a845f@202-154-132-95.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can just prove that every brainfuck instruction has a series of TrainCode equations. < 1588200282 150656 :Train!ca9a845f@202-154-132-95.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :That match it. < 1588200382 917760 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a way to do it, at least < 1588200395 818860 :Train!ca9a845f@202-154-132-95.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It proves TC is TC. < 1588201157 262801 :Train!ca9a845f@202-154-132-95.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588202110 617873 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:554a:eee:a60b:1dea JOIN :#esoteric < 1588202419 981490 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:554a:eee:a60b:1dea QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1588202907 277844 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588202919 332007 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588203075 403016 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1588203514 830196 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1588204113 940717 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588204249 315199 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:e83b:e4a9:7f97:c52b JOIN :#esoteric < 1588204563 317834 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:e83b:e4a9:7f97:c52b QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1588206673 260465 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that will do it too > 1588206747 151338 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Double Helix14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71498 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+4892) 10+[[Double Helix]] > 1588206751 53483 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71499&oldid=71496 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+19) 10+[[Double Helix]] > 1588206754 186124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Hakerh40014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71500&oldid=71361 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+19) 10+[[Double Helix]] > 1588207352 314572 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Unary Filesystem14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71501 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+143) 10Wip > 1588207826 284643 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Picofuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71502&oldid=51707 5* 03Orby 5* (+1827) 10 < 1588210741 350662 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:e83b:e4a9:7f97:c52b JOIN :#esoteric < 1588211061 314687 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:e83b:e4a9:7f97:c52b QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1588212795 394249 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1588213259 390720 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1588214013 301217 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:e83b:e4a9:7f97:c52b JOIN :#esoteric < 1588214291 340755 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:e83b:e4a9:7f97:c52b QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1588217725 273428 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does C have any function like PostScript's /ReusableStreamDecode filter? < 1588217826 995312 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is that? < 1588217918 889889 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It reads an entire file into memory at once so that now it is seekable. < 1588217931 146095 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Even if the original file wasn't seekable.) < 1588217997 322947 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you mean in the standard library? < 1588218000 660124 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1588218009 413127 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure such a function belongs in the standard library. < 1588218039 284944 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you are correct, but I also wanted to know if GNU or POSIX has it. < 1588218057 306442 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :POSIX has mmap which might be better for many purposes. < 1588218431 592879 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, for some purposes it is better. < 1588220146 847059 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :C's standard library doesn't have a function like that. wouldn't that just be loading a file into memory byte by byte and operating on that. < 1588220165 304044 :craigo_!~craigo@144.136.206.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588220202 701587 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is like that. Of course it is not a problem if it doesn't have; I just was wondering about it. < 1588220249 968990 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :C has functions to actively seek through files without loading them into memory. < 1588220294 483785 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but some files are not rewindable. < 1588220331 122383 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1588220345 645025 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as? < 1588220393 522420 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as many files that aren't a disk file. < 1588220403 282894 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1588220936 739172 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the API you want? < 1588221041 754893 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just wondering, actually. < 1588221118 945045 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are all sorts of ways you might want to allocate memory for the file. < 1588221613 140668 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens if the file doesn't have an EOF character? < 1588221622 509038 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/EOF character/EOF marker < 1588221693 375843 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would a file have an EOF character? < 1588221724 320036 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it doesn't have EOF then it won't work, of course. < 1588222120 196046 :PlasmaPower!~PlasmaPow@89.187.164.95 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588222316 840214 :Train!ca9a845f@202-154-132-95.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1588222429 409397 :Train!ca9a845f@202-154-132-95.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello zzo38. < 1588222468 578762 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1588222477 761683 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hardly anyone uses an OS that has an EOF character as actually part of the file < 1588222487 250641 :Train!ca9a845f@202-154-132-95.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had an idea for an "improvement" on TrainCode. < 1588222497 280919 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than just a weird artifact of APIs like getc() < 1588222610 753006 :PlasmaPower!~PlasmaPow@89.187.164.95 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I created this Befunge-98 snippet which freezes the cfunge and rcfunge interpreters: https://gist.github.com/PlasmaPower/39f01e1289d5d4bd84953335efd5f7de < 1588222639 505579 :PlasmaPower!~PlasmaPow@89.187.164.95 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if anyone's done this before, but it creates a flying IP that's always going to be out of bounds, then uses another thread to overwrite the currently executing instruction to put it in string mode and process a space < 1588222653 539518 :Train!ca9a845f@202-154-132-95.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Impressive. < 1588222656 212065 :PlasmaPower!~PlasmaPow@89.187.164.95 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing the interpreters get stuck trying to skip over future spaces < 1588222657 243326 :PlasmaPower!~PlasmaPow@89.187.164.95 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks :) < 1588222712 149809 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Train: What is your idea for "improvement" on TrainCode? < 1588222782 189404 :Train!ca9a845f@202-154-132-95.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiple trains. < 1588222819 166540 :Train!ca9a845f@202-154-132-95.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :the character # splits a train. < 1588222846 404053 :Train!ca9a845f@202-154-132-95.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It creates a new instruction and data pointer at it's position if the IP goes over it, and sets them to RIGHT < 1588223060 748732 :Train!ca9a845f@202-154-132-95.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you think? < 1588223065 347016 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it can be a a possible extension < 1588223079 439553 :Train!ca9a845f@202-154-132-95.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :And two new chars: e and f < 1588223089 432960 :Train!ca9a845f@202-154-132-95.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Change the relative data pointer for each IP < 1588223152 903686 :PlasmaPower!~PlasmaPow@89.187.164.95 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1588223169 552384 :Train!ca9a845f@202-154-132-95.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588223171 954840 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that perhaps they should be called separate extensions or separate levels, similar to how SNUSP does < 1588224056 441069 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.105.9.236.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1588225784 965795 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1588226038 987954 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:7876:409a:256f:13ce JOIN :#esoteric < 1588226344 987376 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:7876:409a:256f:13ce QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1588227757 330878 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4d2:165b:b84f:9bf9 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588227841 56748 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:7833:c5b9:1878:9574 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588228049 986326 :tromp__!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:946f:f23d:f812:15a9 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588228085 352349 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:4d2:165b:b84f:9bf9 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1588228113 984415 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:7833:c5b9:1878:9574 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1588228143 834869 :Train!ca9a845f@202-154-132-95.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1588228240 903690 :Train!ca9a845f@202-154-132-95.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, what do you think of multiple pointers? < 1588228292 843258 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Train: I mentioned after you disconnection, I can mention again < 1588228302 192599 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that perhaps they should be called separate extensions or separate levels, similar to how SNUSP does < 1588228316 55138 :Train!ca9a845f@202-154-132-95.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1588228319 363317 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, you did not quite exaplain how e and f are working) < 1588228345 989068 :tromp__!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:946f:f23d:f812:15a9 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1588228347 886201 :Train!ca9a845f@202-154-132-95.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :e decrements the reference for the data pointer for the current IP, and vice versa for f < 1588228360 43378 :Train!ca9a845f@202-154-132-95.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it changes the pairings of DP and IP < 1588228376 305543 :Train!ca9a845f@202-154-132-95.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :each IP has an assigned DP, and e/f change that assigned DP < 1588228410 284670 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, OK. < 1588229002 709429 :Train!ca9a845f@202-154-132-95.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588229378 314842 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:946f:f23d:f812:15a9 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588231405 309358 :Bowserinator!~Bowserina@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator QUIT :Quit: Blame iczero something happened < 1588231416 471211 :moony!~moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Quit: Bye! < 1588231427 504094 :iovoid!~iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid QUIT :Quit: iovoid has quit! < 1588233183 759030 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588233753 57988 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll go one further on what I said yesterday: in Jot, the 1 combinator serves the role of a prefix application operator, which lets you construct programs in "forward Polish notation", which is how it can dispense away with parentheses. < 1588233771 775037 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/dispense away with/dispense with/ < 1588233880 69903 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "reverse Polish notation" in concatenative languages also lets you dispense with parentheses, and that's often stated as a selling point, but it's actually stronger than that: in a concatenative language, concatenation is associative, and that's the reason why you can dispense with pareentheses. < 1588234016 382079 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't know if there is any actual signficant practical value to having concatenation be associative, actually, but it's aesthetically pleasing, at least.) < 1588234463 167269 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are reverse and forward Polish notation actually different in that respect? < 1588234771 612847 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the sense that in FPN a symbol sets up an expectation of what follows it (its argument(s)), and in RPN it doesn't, I would say yes. < 1588235235 119889 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, I would admit that that's looking at it as syntax only. < 1588235628 259252 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you reverse an RPN program, don't you get a PN program? < 1588235652 15100 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe there's a practical thing where RPN is more amenable to things that takes a variable number of arguments or do other bizarro stack operations. < 1588235941 836014 :Train!ca9a8535@202-154-133-53.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1588235973 528655 :Train!ca9a8535@202-154-133-53.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is my fourth hour of debugging my interpreter... I've had to deal with the weirdest bugs. < 1588236006 978798 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:615a:9e30:e4fb:8588 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588236025 298437 :Train!ca9a8535@202-154-133-53.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello. < 1588236287 199984 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't really know; I'm mainly trying to explain to myself out loud why my idea for a concatenative version of the SKI calculus seemed obvious and easy when I first thought of it, but turned out to be much less obvious when I tried to work it out. < 1588236308 7564 :Train!ca9a8535@202-154-133-53.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been converting my code, which was expressly designed for single-pointers into an n-pointer system, with two types of pointers and parallel processing. < 1588236310 382153 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it actually is obvious and easy and I'm just overthinking it. < 1588236345 603271 :Train!ca9a8535@202-154-133-53.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe, but many problems depend on your method of thinking. < 1588236372 375121 :Train!ca9a8535@202-154-133-53.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, in my esolang, I couldn't find a quine for days, and zzo38 on here found one in less than an hour. < 1588236386 984715 :Train!ca9a8535@202-154-133-53.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :His method of thinking was very different to mine, and it worked far better. < 1588236394 902090 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is 1 in Jot like ` in Unlambda? < 1588236433 635128 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, not really. < 1588236613 453547 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588236621 219349 :Train!ca9a8535@202-154-133-53.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gudday mate! < 1588236995 372421 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fxmbgdseweobncjt QUIT :Quit: killed < 1588236999 992408 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-xzyaisbqzvkskrdj QUIT :Quit: killed < 1588237013 124393 :xavo[m]!undersco1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-wgwnxhhmtkkndjuy QUIT :Quit: killed < 1588237018 492894 :xylochoron[m]!xylochoron@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-vlvkegcgsdxmwhtq QUIT :Quit: killed < 1588237969 702230 :xylochoron[m]!xylochoron@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-kdjvvfchmkasywvm JOIN :#esoteric < 1588238647 342998 :craigo_!~craigo@144.136.206.168 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588238795 759558 :Train!ca9a8535@202-154-133-53.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588239029 633511 :rain1!~debian@244.106.198.146.dyn.plus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588239033 620946 :rain1!~debian@244.106.198.146.dyn.plus.net QUIT :Changing host < 1588239033 620991 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588240540 644220 :xavo[m]!undersco1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-rlwfunenxbrvafaa JOIN :#esoteric < 1588240540 722761 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-qqlwmnxywvwyzahd JOIN :#esoteric < 1588240540 760391 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-kleblcnzezajlitm JOIN :#esoteric < 1588243285 904553 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1588243616 39580 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.lmfdb.org/NumberField/?galois_group=6T4 < 1588243619 935530 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this i sa good site < 1588246021 969614 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588246177 815687 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1588246190 376310 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1588246990 861039 :wib_jonas!b03f0c32@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.12.50 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588248263 874444 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588250029 300875 :BWBellairs[NNRF]!~bwbellair@hellomouse/dev/bwbellairs JOIN :#esoteric < 1588250044 806863 :BWBellairs!~bwbellair@hellomouse/dev/bwbellairs QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1588250077 430193 :BWBellairs[NNRF]!~bwbellair@hellomouse/dev/bwbellairs NICK :BWBellairs < 1588251266 979418 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Excess Flood < 1588251285 282578 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric > 1588252265 366044 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Unary Filesystem14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71503&oldid=71501 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+893) 10Finished > 1588252338 868396 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71504&oldid=71499 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+23) 10/* U */ + [[Unary Filesystem]] > 1588252387 331247 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71505&oldid=71493 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+70) 10/* Languages */ > 1588252406 346945 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71506&oldid=71505 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-2) 10/* Languages */ < 1588252456 318029 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric > 1588252576 316064 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Double Helix14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71507&oldid=71498 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+36) 10 > 1588252634 920260 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Double Helix14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71508&oldid=71507 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-24) 10link + typo fix < 1588253102 251642 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1588255157 323857 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Picofuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71509&oldid=71502 5* 03Orby 5* (-42) 10/* The set of PF languages is empty */ > 1588255189 926092 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Picofuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71510&oldid=71509 5* 03Orby 5* (-39) 10/* The set of PF languages is empty */ > 1588255350 52751 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71511 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+41) 10Redirected page to [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow]] < 1588255405 565847 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is oerjan still active? I haven't seen him around in a while. < 1588255520 242236 :wib_jonas!b03f0c32@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.12.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: yes, he hasn't disappeared yet > 1588255606 924320 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Oerjan14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71512&oldid=63959 5* 03Orby 5* (+163) 10 < 1588255636 463795 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: cool. he and I were working a project a few years ago that I made some progress on yesterday. just trying to reconnect with him. < 1588255746 752097 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :or anybody else who's interested in BF minimizations. I need some verification on a proof I wrote that there is no 2 command minimization of reversible bitfuck. < 1588255767 53948 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :See the picofuck page. < 1588255772 988857 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :proof is in talk section > 1588255938 60514 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71513&oldid=71506 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+50) 10/* Languages */ > 1588255994 360072 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07The Past14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71514&oldid=71400 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+126) 10cats > 1588256015 386728 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71515&oldid=71504 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+15) 10/* T */ + [[The Past]] > 1588257051 443581 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Picofuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71516&oldid=71510 5* 03Orby 5* (+664) 10/* The set of PF languages is empty */ < 1588260192 698038 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-251-142.host.pobb.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1588260917 814274 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1588261130 614610 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.105.9.236.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I have one we will totally be proud of: V* is just a negation of V, assuming the scalar field is a contradiction < 1588261135 462444 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.105.9.236.dynamic.ufanet.ru NICK :arseniiv < 1588261142 781528 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.9.236.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/we/y’all < 1588261164 76797 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.9.236.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :or *the* contradiction, hm < 1588261201 388760 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.9.236.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it’s correct of course, as “negation of X assuming Y is a contradiction” is simply X → Y < 1588261245 494954 :wib_jonas!b03f0c32@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.12.50 QUIT :Quit: Connection closed > 1588264877 645012 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Leo1 5* 10New user account < 1588265516 373993 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:615a:9e30:e4fb:8588 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1588265743 565948 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fhcdwyylyjalazmv JOIN :#esoteric < 1588266635 726783 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :solvable 1d peg solitaire problems are regular < 1588266665 224983 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :2d might as well < 1588267257 832884 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588267276 985047 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588267423 851952 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1588267773 422451 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588270219 48420 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1588270771 207272 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: JOIN :#esoteric < 1588272111 491612 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: 2d is apparently NP complete < 1588272124 787034 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not sure i get how this is possible < 1588272132 173431 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1588272136 243885 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it can be solved with an easy depth first search < 1588272153 658500 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the maximum depth will be equal to the number of pegs < 1588272164 399299 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, tsp can be solved by filling a matrix < 1588272166 346573 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that leave enough room for it to still be NP complete? < 1588272170 25653 :kevinalh!~kevinalh@179.6.193.17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588272212 883908 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If someone claims to have the perfect programming language, he is either a fool or a salesman or both. < 1588272296 223179 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i fail to see how to solve it ith a simple dfs, though < 1588272334 189854 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, wouldn't you need to make a dfs where each step is a new dfs? < 1588272542 688768 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not claiming that peg solitaire is a perfect programming language < 1588272562 535136 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good. > 1588272624 410195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Reversible Bitfuck14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71517 5* 03Orby 5* (+3970) 10Finally getting around to creating a standalone page for Reversible Bitfuck < 1588272634 766204 :kevinalh!~kevinalh@179.6.193.17 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588272670 497836 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: i'd like to see your solver with a dfs < 1588272779 641632 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont have it, i wrote it a long time ago < 1588272795 605923 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very simple though, just list all moves at each step > 1588272800 808021 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Picofuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71518&oldid=51581 5* 03Orby 5* (-2496) 10Moving definition of RBF to its own page < 1588272820 637544 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt that this will work with polynomial time < 1588272883 729225 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the previous to last move has 3 pegs with potentially 4 (minimum, can't think of more) moves < 1588272915 504650 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 pegs can lead to different configurations of 3 pegs with more than one move < 1588272932 407250 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i fail to see how this is not exponential > 1588272953 409204 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nanofuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71519&oldid=69875 5* 03Orby 5* (-6) 10Updating links to point to reversible bitfuck page < 1588272954 748341 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1588273000 558516 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid JOIN :#esoteric > 1588273035 307632 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Reversible Bitfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71520&oldid=71517 5* 03Orby 5* (+145) 10Adding categories > 1588273055 16691 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Picofuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71521&oldid=71518 5* 03Orby 5* (+145) 10Adding categories < 1588273169 6025 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator JOIN :#esoteric < 1588273206 461106 :probablymoony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric > 1588273339 460934 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nanofuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71522&oldid=71519 5* 03Orby 5* (+254) 10/* Reversible Bitfuck */ Nanofuck has a dual language, NF' > 1588273379 241569 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nanofuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71523&oldid=71522 5* 03Orby 5* (+8) 10/* Reversible Bitfuck */ Fixing formatting. Sorry for edit spam. > 1588273853 638994 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Picofuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71524&oldid=71516 5* 03Orby 5* (+56) 10Found a problem with the non-existence proof < 1588273878 137223 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright, done editing for now < 1588273896 855012 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588273916 799043 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :This 2 command reversible bitfuck minimization problem is driving me nuts. I've been thinking about this in the back of my head for years. < 1588273938 733922 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems impossible, but I can't find the proof < 1588273959 902270 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will check it out < 1588273978 916480 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you, it's on the Picofuck page < 1588273996 360976 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oerjan and I worked on it for like a month straight in 2017 and got nowhere < 1588274143 698565 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is really cool stuff < 1588274149 918674 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i normally don't look into brainfuck related things anymore < 1588274152 137081 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i like this < 1588274267 959529 :kevinalh!~kevinalh@179.6.193.17 JOIN :#esoteric > 1588274412 902336 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pure14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71525&oldid=70523 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+32) 10/* See also */ < 1588274517 558525 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:Picofuck this seems like a very hard problem < 1588274542 449958 :craigo_!~craigo@144.136.206.168 JOIN :#esoteric > 1588274590 478017 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pure14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71526&oldid=71525 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-24) 10It is not backwards compable < 1588274644 896439 :kevinalh!~kevinalh@179.6.193.17 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1588274648 428502 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it acceptable for a PF language to use 1/n'th of the tape for real data and the rest for scratch? < 1588274739 172729 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a 2 command version of brainfuck/bitfuck (non reversible) < 1588274896 815815 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: yeah, PF is a hard problem. A PF language can use the tape however it wants provided it's a simple translation of RBF. < 1588274914 389104 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know of a 2 command version of brainfuck (even excluding I/O) that's a "simple translation" < 1588274920 602983 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1588274947 924781 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 command bfs are pretty easy < 1588274956 770062 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :The simple translation definition formalizes the notion of "not cheating", otherwise you can do all kinds of context dependent nonsense and call it a minimization < 1588274964 438867 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you considered candidate based on the language of matching brackets? [], [][], [][][], ..., [[]], [[[]]], ..., [[][]], type strings < 1588275017 495637 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess all candidates are like that actually < 1588275023 493951 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have generally used [ and ] to discuss potential PF commands, but it is not known whether or not bracket matching of that type would be the appropriate grammar for a PF < 1588275041 922024 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :The syntax might be two [ for each ], e.g. [[], or something else < 1588275056 279083 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1588275082 38457 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does "leave the machine in state t_1" mean in the definition of reversibility? the tape pointer? < 1588275091 95283 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :tape pointer + tape contents < 1588275099 890776 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :that comprises the entire state < 1588275107 948919 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1588275125 787432 :kevinalh!~kevinalh@179.6.193.17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588275188 377175 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 command BFs are easy that are not what I call "simple translations" of BF. e.g. unary, turning tarpits, etc. < 1588275233 377107 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :braincrash is the classic example of a turning tarpit that isn't actually a "simple translation" because it's context dependent < 1588275273 96835 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i could solve this problem < 1588275286 30984 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't make my mind up if any PF exists or not < 1588275297 215291 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :try to find one < 1588275307 583029 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been trying to prove they don't exist for years < 1588275346 180728 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :nanofuck is as small as I've gotten and I suspect it's minimal < 1588275398 267285 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nanofuck is very impressive already < 1588275435 567994 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :NF wasn't hard to find. I'm sure there are other interesting 3 command variants aside from NF and NF' < 1588275459 846603 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, obviously there are an infinite number of 3 command variants, but most of them just contain huge swaths of nops < 1588275544 951625 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if you could do that makes [] act like * but [][] act like brackets < 1588275551 623925 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by using every second cell as a scratch space < 1588275584 336346 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea behind requiring a "simple translation" is to restrict context dependence, which in my view is cheating < 1588275597 812054 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's questionable if this is reversible < 1588275608 820432 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :if what is reversible? < 1588275644 924596 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it would only be reversible if we add a restriction that we must write [X][X] (same contents each time), but then htis probabyl violates the simple translation requirement < 1588275658 397145 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.9.236.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1588275671 632969 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, how do you translate [ into an RBF string if [ has different meanings in different contexts? < 1588275693 861123 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could store that context on the tape, but then you have to prevent it from being overwritten < 1588275706 411431 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah storing it on the tape is what i was thinking < 1588275738 668591 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel like the ability to use scratch space on the tape is what makes it hard to prove this impossible (or potentially gives us the ability to pull it off) < 1588275759 541643 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we only get a finite amount of data from this < 1588275767 454242 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends on how you define the isomorphism between tapes < 1588275804 837027 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you say the tape has to be literally the same, then scratch space doesn't fly, if there just needs to be an isomorphism between the tapes, then map each cell position n to 2n in the converted tape < 1588275811 111001 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :that leaves 2n + 1 for scratch space < 1588275813 968180 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1588275844 990161 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically the pf language could only use the even cells and use the odd cells for storing context < 1588275867 223899 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not the most satisfying answer, but if that's all that exists I'd be happy with it < 1588275943 295552 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :first priority would be making the tapes match exactly though < 1588275952 162442 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :like they do between RBF and NF < 1588275970 360410 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it could be proven that matching tapes is impossible < 1588275976 2210 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1588275980 424224 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an interesting thought < 1588275983 86252 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would this additional restriction of matching tapes imply < 1588276011 803561 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, matching tapes is possible with 3 command simple translations because I've done it < 1588276027 195533 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've generally been going for matching tapes when looking for 2 command simple translations as well < 1588276038 11488 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't explored storing context on the tape very much < 1588276055 136413 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like that is a little bit of a loophole < 1588276071 632580 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might make sense to define simple translation as meaning identical tapes < 1588276101 334072 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wanted to allow simple translations between languages that use different models < 1588276108 403502 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :like maybe one language doesn't have a tape and another does < 1588276120 857350 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :there could still be simple translations between them < 1588276218 318442 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric > 1588276261 387726 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Asdfasdf1 5* 10New user account < 1588276669 431681 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How common are using C programs on non-IEEE computers? < 1588276691 293520 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean by non-IEEE computer? < 1588276712 750898 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably ones without floating point support. < 1588276729 489166 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, or using a non-IEEE-754 floating point format. < 1588276730 865662 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case super common, most 8 and 16 bit chips don't have floating point support < 1588276818 34015 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :SDCC's (emulated) floating point routines are non-IEEE. < 1588276823 375640 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :on those architectures floating point is simulated i software < 1588276834 633634 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1588276857 97576 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're "IEEE-ish", but don't support e.g. subnormal numbers. < 1588276912 907717 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, although I suppose it is not needed to port TeXnicard to non-IEEE computers, since TeXnicard is intended for 32-bit or 64-bit computers, not 8-bit and 16-bits. < 1588276984 700660 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, what does the C standard say about floats and doubles? If the C standard guarantees them to behave like IEEE floats and doubles, then I'd assume the compiler will take care of it. < 1588276992 863308 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't. < 1588277001 22982 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bummer < 1588277005 192709 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will need to study the discharged candidates on the discussion page tommorow < 1588277011 616042 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an appendix for IEEE floats and doubles, which the implementation can indicate by defining a macro. < 1588277027 379055 :b_jonas!~x@176.63.12.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: common if you count it when you deliberately enable some aggressive settings or optimization flags for compilation units, such as the runtime option to not generate and read denormals on x86_64 to speed up operations that would generate such numbers < 1588277028 179453 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: cool, feel free to reach out < 1588277029 183484 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And, I am not sure that SQLite works on non-IEEE computers anyways) < 1588277032 983012 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than that, the standard just gives a very abstract model, that can be implemented by a non-2 radix. < 1588277036 722751 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm bob@forder.cc < 1588277071 915414 :b_jonas!~x@176.63.12.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that still uses numbers formatted as IEEE float, just not the IEEE float rules for arithmetic operations < 1588277077 595541 :b_jonas!~x@176.63.12.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't know if you count that < 1588277118 987005 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1588277130 168455 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"An implementation that defines __STDC_IEC_559__ shall conform to the specifications in this annex." < 1588277180 547818 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Well, my program only cares that the "float" type is a 32-bit floating point and that it is either IEEE or big-endian (or both), and that if you write to a union with a int and float as a int and read it back as a float, that it can be read. (The reason for this confusion is presumably a bug in Adobe Distiller, which is software I don't even use.) < 1588277265 67675 :b_jonas!~x@176.63.12.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that part about the union sounds like it could be false on modern enough gcc because of how C handles unions, but I'm not quite sure < 1588277267 297186 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or possibly some other software from Adobe; I am not sure which.) < 1588277281 321221 :b_jonas!~x@176.63.12.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: wait, what do you do with the union? < 1588277293 150453 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use of union for type punning is sort of sanctioned. < 1588277305 83550 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Merely write a int to it and read back a float from it; the union is not used after that. < 1588277305 387267 :b_jonas!~x@176.63.12.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :read it back as a float and then read the union? < 1588277317 298665 :b_jonas!~x@176.63.12.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea how the C rules work for that so I'd just avoid that < 1588277334 623646 :b_jonas!~x@176.63.12.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for float being 32-bit IEEE float format, that's probably true everywhere < 1588277372 222480 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: There's a footnote about how it should work. "If the member used to read the contents of a union object is not the same as the member last used to store a value in the object, the appropriate part of the object representation of the value is reinterpreted as an object representation in the new type as described in 6.2.6 (a process sometimes called 'type punning')." < 1588277384 812695 :b_jonas!~x@176.63.12.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: could you use memcpy for that instead? that definitely works and is usually optimized away, while I'm not sure about the union < 1588277414 16296 :b_jonas!~x@176.63.12.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: also is this a C program or a C++ program? < 1588277419 429426 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is C, not C++ < 1588277442 947248 :b_jonas!~x@176.63.12.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I really don't understand the rules, and I suggest memcpy instead of a union < 1588277465 331082 :b_jonas!~x@176.63.12.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's possible that a union is safe too < 1588277498 60437 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Search for "#define obj_ufloat" in http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/texnicard.ui/artifact/39edd63855a81b2b < 1588277534 862571 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :On a non-IEEE computer, the floating number is stored using the native order. < 1588277562 792392 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, if you want you could do that with memcpy. < 1588277608 692770 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`float f; memcpy(&f, &(int){x}, sizeof (int)); f;` or suchlike. But I do think the union's allowed as well. < 1588277610 367112 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :float? No such file or directory < 1588277616 604349 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEso: Don't you start. < 1588277651 438308 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I guess you could do it entirely with compound literals, thanks to memcpy returning dest. :) < 1588277696 966541 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in `*(float *)memcpy(&(float){0}, &(int){x}, sizeof (int))`. < 1588277771 879048 :b_jonas!~x@176.63.12.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is that compound literal actually valid in C? < 1588277793 898335 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should be. In C99 and above. < 1588277804 151305 :b_jonas!~x@176.63.12.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1588277805 19813 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I could use memcpy, although I did it this way, and the quoted footnote would suggest that it could work. Although that isn't the point I am trying to make anyways, which is rather the Adobe bug (despite none of Adobe's software is in use here). < 1588277876 187545 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like `&(T){x}` over `(T[]){x}` when it's "conceptually" a pointer to a single object rather than an array of length 1, though they are equivalent. < 1588277912 527493 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1588277937 466345 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de QUIT :Client Quit < 1588277966 943199 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1588277979 347746 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1588278050 865194 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also don't know if possibly someone else might find the set of macros in the code I linked to to be useful in your own programs too maybe > 1588278577 860663 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Cortex language 314]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71527&oldid=71429 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+2) 10 < 1588278756 982374 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588279529 235265 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fhcdwyylyjalazmv QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1588279849 984478 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1588280012 506312 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588280012 590656 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@sorunome.de QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588280024 372915 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588280059 510780 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@sorunome.de JOIN :#esoteric > 1588280084 736758 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71528&oldid=71298 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+61) 10 > 1588280113 487372 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71529&oldid=71528 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+42) 10 > 1588280132 269099 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71530&oldid=71529 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+5) 10 > 1588280146 724923 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71531&oldid=71530 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+9) 10 > 1588280406 683802 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Cortex language 3A14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71532 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1483) 10WIP > 1588280427 382468 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Cortex language 3A14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71533&oldid=71532 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+35) 10 > 1588280692 377382 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Orby14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71534&oldid=71437 5* 03Orby 5* (+45) 10 > 1588280724 209688 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Orby14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71535&oldid=71534 5* 03Orby 5* (-18) 10 < 1588282383 516089 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de QUIT :Quit: zseri < 1588282479 244437 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-qqlwmnxywvwyzahd PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey everyone. < 1588282504 460074 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-qqlwmnxywvwyzahd PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pondrin' what Haskell would look like if we assumed it took place in the category of abelian groups. < 1588282532 236829 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-qqlwmnxywvwyzahd PRIVMSG #esoteric :There'd be a total function z :: forall a. a. < 1588282583 75295 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-qqlwmnxywvwyzahd PRIVMSG #esoteric :And another total function p :: forall a. a -> a -> a, which would be commutative and associative with z as the identity. < 1588282606 974216 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-qqlwmnxywvwyzahd PRIVMSG #esoteric :And n :: forall a. a -> a, the inverse for p. < 1588282827 577605 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-qqlwmnxywvwyzahd PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, the category of abelian groups isn't cartesian closed, so... good luck with currying. < 1588284220 880918 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1588285161 605990 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1588285919 978882 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588286869 441256 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:946f:f23d:f812:15a9 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588286914 378846 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:946f:f23d:f812:15a9 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588287165 476190 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:946f:f23d:f812:15a9 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1588287618 442901 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588287991 241063 :loops!~ircap@217.217.238.232.dyn.user.ono.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1588288026 887325 :Train!ca9a86ce@202-154-134-206.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1588288063 666019 :loops!~ircap@217.217.238.232.dyn.user.ono.com PART :#esoteric < 1588288298 309705 :Train!ca9a86ce@202-154-134-206.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got the instruction pointers running in parallel, after almost 10 hours of debugging. < 1588288534 821395 :Train!ca9a86ce@202-154-134-206.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :The data pointers were being initialised to the position of the # character, but so were the instruction pointers, so I ended up with hundreds of pointers even for simple, 9 byte programs. < 1588288601 142653 :Train!ca9a86ce@202-154-134-206.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I needed to do some "sorcery" with the arrays to make the data pointer start at the split and the instruction pointer start at the character immediately to the right mod the length of the program[0]. < 1588288637 734696 :Train!ca9a86ce@202-154-134-206.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, here's a demo of the splitting character #. < 1588288647 780663 :Train!ca9a86ce@202-154-134-206.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Code: < 1588288648 724663 :Train!ca9a86ce@202-154-134-206.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :V < 1588288671 887778 :Train!ca9a86ce@202-154-134-206.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Output: #V < 1588288813 298723 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:946f:f23d:f812:15a9 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588288821 484801 :Train!ca9a86ce@202-154-134-206.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still implementing e and f. I'll send you the finished documentation. < 1588288973 476336 :Train!ca9a86ce@202-154-134-206.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Implemented them, after 10 hours and 22 minutes of debugging. < 1588289063 238933 :Train!ca9a86ce@202-154-134-206.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the interpreter is only 4952 bytes. < 1588289113 354310 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:946f:f23d:f812:15a9 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1588289207 829502 :Train!ca9a86ce@202-154-134-206.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :All programs that worked in TrainCode v1 work in TrainCode v2, with a few specific exceptions. < 1588289215 608809 :Train!ca9a86ce@202-154-134-206.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the quine still works. < 1588289259 480815 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588289365 913917 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1588289380 919184 :Train!ca9a86ce@202-154-134-206.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588289431 622119 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1588290736 535823 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:946f:f23d:f812:15a9 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588291005 412176 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:946f:f23d:f812:15a9 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds