< 1588464784 914738 :Antebrationist!ca9a8248@202-154-130-72.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1588464790 927316 :Antebrationist!ca9a8248@202-154-130-72.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is my usual nickname. < 1588464830 776129 :Antebrationist!ca9a8248@202-154-130-72.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was called "train" on here earlier, after my esolang, but I think my normal name will cause less difficulties. < 1588464891 154729 :laerling!~laerling@unaffiliated/laerling JOIN :#esoteric < 1588464918 183691 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1588464968 837127 :laerling!~laerling@unaffiliated/laerling QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1588465005 93709 :laerling!~laerling@static.235.77.203.116.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1588465364 888698 :Antebrationist!ca9a8248@202-154-130-72.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh zzo38, I have fully planned out the minsky machine and started to build it. < 1588465472 158774 :laerling!~laerling@static.235.77.203.116.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Changing host < 1588465472 158831 :laerling!~laerling@unaffiliated/laerling JOIN :#esoteric < 1588466340 945388 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK > 1588466760 303664 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rhoam14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71644&oldid=71640 5* 03EvilMuffinHa 5* (+972) 10 > 1588466808 694779 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rhoam14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71645&oldid=71644 5* 03EvilMuffinHa 5* (+154) 10 < 1588466836 266428 :Antebrationist!ca9a8248@202-154-130-72.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does esowiki do? > 1588466841 462871 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rhoam14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71646&oldid=71645 5* 03EvilMuffinHa 5* (-20) 10 < 1588466870 863425 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :says who changed what in the wiki. < 1588466908 304747 :Antebrationist!ca9a8248@202-154-130-72.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, its like an edit tracker. < 1588466915 346149 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yuh. < 1588466923 28455 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w < 1588466926 224180 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:tetrapleur//tetrapleur is the new name of quadrilaterals. \ spore//spore stores its input in tmp/spout and displays the nth line (default first). For a version considering irc line lengths, see sport. See also `spam. \ gey//I know nothing about Gey, sir. \ english channel//If it existed, the English Channel would separate Hexham from Finland. \ hppavilion[42]//hppavilion[42] is the awesomest person you will ever meet. Much aw < 1588466928 344064 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1588466929 258939 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:esomer than oerjan. < 1588466935 975056 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 < 1588466937 849606 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:457) (Enigma is two games; one is solving Enigma puzzles, the other is working out how to represent things as Enigma puzzles, preferably with the minimal amount of lua and player-hidden information possible) \ 1093) anyway getting naked and high in the desert doesn't make you a rebel, as much as I enjoy this activity \ 1231) do we seriously not do quotes any more? \ 425) So it's like... Rummy mixed with... b < 1588466941 231333 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1588466942 81486 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:reakout? \ 982) My opinion is that you are all wrong, as far as I can tell. < 1588466969 977312 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`spam < 1588466970 782384 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:457) (Enigma is two games; one is solving Enigma puzzles, the other is working out how to represent things as Enigma puzzles, preferably with the minimal amount of lua and player-hidden information possible) \ 1093) anyway getting naked and high in the desert doesn't make you a rebel, as much as I enjoy this activity \ 1231) do we seriously not do quotes any more? \ 425) So it's like... Rummy mixed with... b < 1588466995 674025 :Antebrationist!ca9a8248@202-154-130-72.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1588466996 661271 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(What was `spam good for again?) < 1588467013 467690 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls -ld ../bin/spam ../bin/n < 1588467017 10949 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :lrwxrwxrwx 1 1000 1000 4 Jul 8 2017 ../bin/n -> spam \ -rwxr-xr-x 1 1000 1000 206 Nov 16 21:37 ../bin/spam < 1588467026 111697 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Antebrationist: this channel has quite a few bots, some more noisy than others. < 1588467030 682708 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :spam was just the original name for n before it was shortened to one letter. < 1588467030 748092 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Ah, thanks. < 1588467043 97452 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: So the issue here is that `n loops. < 1588467052 12401 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cbt n < 1588467052 795316 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :line="${1-$(cat $HACKENV/tmp/spline)}"; len="$(awk 'END{print NR}' $HACKENV/tmp/spout)"; echo -n "$line/$len:"; sed -n "${line}{p;q}" $HACKENV/tmp/spout; echo "$((line $HACKENV/tmp/spline < 1588467072 753346 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that's an issue? < 1588467074 605710 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hackeso < 1588467075 837338 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEso is almost, but not quite, entirely unlike HackEgo. < 1588467076 519133 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was intentional at the time. < 1588467144 140841 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, this API issue is kind of annoying. This program gives you a path, and what is normally a basename as an offset into that path. < 1588467146 590077 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Antebrationist: Anyway, esowiki is useful... a) it's interesting to see what topics are currently hot on the wiki b) it enables more timely reactions to spam < 1588467166 189623 :Antebrationist!ca9a8248@202-154-130-72.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. Agreed. Especially on b < 1588467175 436804 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is, what it actually gives you is also supposed to be useful for openat(parent_dir_fd, ...) < 1588467192 99968 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's almost the same as a basename except that at the root you want to use AT_FDCWD and a full path instead. < 1588467198 946936 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Antebrationist: HackEso is more of a swiss army knife (it's a user mode linux sandbox and has grown a rich set of commands, most of questionable use, over time) < 1588467204 90508 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the solution? Should it give you a basename each time? < 1588467315 130114 :Antebrationist!ca9a8248@202-154-130-72.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah... That makes sense. > 1588467375 478010 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rhoam14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71647&oldid=71646 5* 03EvilMuffinHa 5* (+383) 10 < 1588467693 185657 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Antebrationist: oh and fungot is a chatterbox < 1588467693 836987 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: am i right? :) imagine if the contents of these fields. < 1588467711 32204 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w < 1588467713 491253 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/1:success//If at first you don't succeed, you fail. \ gazspaczo//gazspaczo iz a hungarian szoup, tradizsonally szerved cold for hot szummer dayz \ tio//TIO is Try It Online!, , a web-based interpreter for over 600 languages, including hundreds of esolangs. \ ginorst//Ginorst is eht Aillpr fo Dgoo Iikw Aaeegmmnnt. \ usa//USA apparently doesn't stand for United State Automaton. < 1588467752 25986 :Antebrationist!ca9a8248@202-154-130-72.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can anybody edit the HackEso to give it commands? < 1588467759 993470 :Antebrationist!ca9a8248@202-154-130-72.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that seems like a very bad idea. < 1588467822 780556 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only people who are morally pure can. < 1588467840 576386 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you are destined for hell HackEso ignores your commands. < 1588467879 86227 :Antebrationist!ca9a8248@202-154-130-72.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good. < 1588468122 10704 :Antebrationist!ca9a8248@202-154-130-72.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/Nothing is weird. < 1588468138 729376 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing is weird. < 1588468148 42468 :Antebrationist!ca9a8248@202-154-130-72.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lol. < 1588468202 730524 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? sorting < 1588468208 488366 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorting? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1588468231 133224 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg ginorst < 1588468233 1188 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :10889:2017-05-13 slwd ginorst//s,dg,Dg, \ 10888:2017-05-13 slwd ginorst//s,ai,Ai,;s,ii,Ii,;s,aa,Aa, \ 6636:2016-02-07 learn Ginorst is eht aillpr fo dgoo iikw aaeegmmnnt. < 1588468264 637786 :Antebrationist!ca9a8248@202-154-130-72.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :What constitutes "morally pure" or "destined for hell"? < 1588468325 85345 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please consult the holy book for more information. < 1588468347 862138 :Antebrationist!ca9a8248@202-154-130-72.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :The holy book? < 1588468525 977953 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Antebrationist: "Nothing" is brilliant, it's the pinnacle of declarative programming. < 1588468535 975748 :Antebrationist!ca9a8248@202-154-130-72.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1588468548 313038 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( I hereby declare the program to be finished. ) < 1588468570 118394 :Antebrationist!ca9a8248@202-154-130-72.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's amusing. < 1588468599 555627 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1588468600 465963 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :asmbf-1.2.6.tar.gz \ asmbf-1.2.7 \ banana.txt \ bfi \ compiled_brachylog.pl \ egel-master \ egel-scripts \ egel.zip \ just \ karma \ le \ output.b \ paste \ program \ spline \ spout \ test \ test.sh \ what.tar.gz < 1588468632 564383 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's with these ridiculous names? < 1588468639 78709 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :spline? spout? sport? < 1588468641 43202 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come on. < 1588468643 72048 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :From here, I believe thou can infer the appropriate holy book to consult. < 1588468674 694750 :Antebrationist!ca9a8248@202-154-130-72.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so the character `[linux command] does the job? < 1588468700 741469 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :our spam comes with advanced interpolation and still spouts nonsense. < 1588468705 464674 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I will be consulting it, seeing as I live as a blasphemous heathen to each and every religion that there is. 🙃 < 1588468715 240318 :Antebrationist!ca9a8248@202-154-130-72.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1588468751 889322 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps the holy book can be listed by the command `list < 1588468752 120910 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I have no explanation for "sport" though. < 1588468763 517172 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about spore? < 1588468776 65028 :Antebrationist!ca9a8248@202-154-130-72.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588468907 157392 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` rm *.gz # both asmbf archives, surely the one unpacked one is enough < 1588468908 35261 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1588469000 980906 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: a more pertinent question may be... can't we stuff those files somewhere less visible... < 1588469024 972463 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls -a < 1588469025 885335 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​. \ .. \ asmbf-1.2.7 \ banana.txt \ bfi \ compiled_brachylog.pl \ egel-master \ egel-scripts \ egel.zip \ just \ karma \ le \ output.b \ paste \ program \ spline \ spout \ test \ test.sh < 1588469147 838393 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: When these things were written they were in tmp/ < 1588469158 146755 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not my fault that the current directory was set to tmp later. < 1588469193 126667 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I know. < 1588469210 612098 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But maybe those files should move with the times :P < 1588469242 613487 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the working directory shouldn't be tmp < 1588469252 369361 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pwd < 1588469253 134894 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/tmp < 1588469280 231284 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But first we'd have to agree on a less visible default temp location. Maybe just a hidden subdirectory here? < 1588469297 797395 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url < 1588469298 654578 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/ < 1588469395 443371 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the problem with the temp files? < 1588469413 49811 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they show up in `ls < 1588469439 370125 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that $HACKENV/tmp is the default working directory < 1588469463 566649 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1588469482 516597 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a big deal, more of a blemish. < 1588469635 134793 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? this < 1588469636 356092 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is something people on the channel like to talk about. We're often unsure what this is, though. Nobody likes this. < 1588469660 899504 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :One could just change the file names to .spline and .spout < 1588469667 890972 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no. < 1588469682 550718 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cwlprits this < 1588469684 499270 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-̈e oerjän olsnër < 1588469698 178603 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah I thought I probably added the last bit. < 1588469768 513785 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I ever mention the time I was talking to a coworker and they said they knew one person who used Gopher? < 1588469782 353169 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then they talked about how that person would always ask "do you like this?". < 1588469794 806404 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmao that's amazing < 1588469810 356588 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah. < 1588469823 725463 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :A simple matter of zzoology. < 1588469878 972606 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1588469886 18880 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should get back to my SAT solver one day. < 1588469896 78315 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know how to do clause deletion nicely. < 1588470018 107751 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I have a question about iterators. < 1588470039 989892 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like this iterator style: Iterator it = thing_start(); while (thing_next(&it)) { ... } < 1588470057 886902 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where ... might use it.value or something. < 1588470096 790432 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The question is, does this require the type to have more values than the classic style of iteration? < 1588470136 348493 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example with "for (int i = 0; i < n; i++)", the value of i goes between 0 and n, so there are a total of n+1 value. < 1588470201 913824 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the first question I should ask is, how would you do simple iteration like that in this style? Starting at a negative number or storing an extra boolean seems scow. < 1588470348 34189 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1588470349 268334 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This specific case doesn't matter much, but it seems kind of annoying to give more complicated iterators an "unstarted" start which I sometimes end up doing. < 1588470356 170152 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :state < 1588470460 836925 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588470637 906994 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1588470715 814959 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588471205 215976 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1588471572 419436 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1588472996 264807 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: What about a standard NULL-terminated linked list? < 1588473139 140843 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's another case that's similar. < 1588473171 115282 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have n+1 total states for your pointer including the final null. Really this is a better example probably. < 1588473199 778596 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for (int i = 0; i < n; i++) is amenable to the starting at -1 trick, and then it fits the pattern you want. < 1588473222 887509 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But for linked lists you don't get a -1 that easily. < 1588473233 995879 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also for pointers. < 1588473261 665743 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :An array with n values has n+1 total pointers, &a[0] to &a[n], but &a[-1] is undefined behavior in C (and reasonably so). < 1588473268 710427 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, for pointers you could argue that it's really a stupid limitation of C. < 1588473277 859394 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe... < 1588473286 581489 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway the linked list example is better. What do you do? < 1588473321 278597 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you make the iterator look like a list element without a value? < 1588473329 189266 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could add an extra "unstarted" state: struct ListIter { Node *node; bool started; }; < 1588473350 622847 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I vaguely recall that Knuth has various list head tricks of that sort... I forgot the details.) < 1588473358 310861 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you can write write ListIter list_start(Node *node) { return (ListIter){.node = node, .started = false}; } < 1588473401 487540 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I* would probably not cram linked lists into that iterator style. < 1588473417 374433 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's unnecessary, certainly. < 1588473425 100775 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can just iterate manually and it works fine. < 1588473436 792927 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm trying to figure out how to make it not horrible in simple cases. < 1588473448 442518 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"not horrible" < 1588473458 315835 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're always so opinionated < 1588473467 941935 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :bool list_next(ListIter *iter) { if (iter->started) { iter->node = iter->node->next; } else { iter->started = true; } return iter->node != 0; } < 1588473479 673687 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, how to make it elegant rather than mildly annoying. < 1588473588 23336 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like this way very much. {.node = 0, .started = true} is the same as {.node = 0, .started = false} < 1588473595 612386 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another option: < 1588473605 615159 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1588473607 961568 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, my problem with this is... how is the compiler supposed to get rid of the bool and produce the right code (which is the normal for (node *i = begin; i; i = i -> next) ...) < 1588473627 239064 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(don't ask me why I put spaces around the ->... too much Haskell, I suppose) < 1588473676 495662 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, really I want this style to work for more complicated kinds of iteration, where I think you have the same problem. < 1588473690 987658 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the simple truth is that I'm so used to the three-part iteration that I don't even find it annoying. < 1588473699 369931 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But probably if you inline _next the control flow will be pretty simple? < 1588473704 223278 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see, does this work? < 1588473709 693042 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct ListIter { Node *node; Node *next; }; < 1588473772 246325 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And the real improvement is to make the iterator manipulation implicit. "for (x: list) { ... }") < 1588473819 879875 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ListIter list_start(Node *node) { return (ListIter){.node = node}; } < 1588473840 408291 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure that isn't .next? < 1588473849 766179 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're right, it's .next < 1588473878 568797 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :bool list_next(ListIter *it) { it->node = it->next; if (it->node) { it->next = node->next; return true; } return false; } < 1588473884 568401 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that works and might be amenable to compiler optimization < 1588473926 504877 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks a bit like SSA style code. < 1588473981 865603 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glulx has a built-in command for dealing with linked lists. I have used linked lists in C too though, as well as Glulx. < 1588474108 931974 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found a implementation of vi for 6502, but it isn't for Famicom (yet), although Famicom keyboard doesn't have any ASCII characters beyond 95 anyways (although nothing stops you from displaying them). < 1588474142 313313 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :vi for the 6502? color me interested. < 1588474151 703384 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :vim for the 6502 would be an accomplishment. < 1588474253 187538 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is http://vi65.sourceforge.net/ but unfortunately not for Famicom, and I have a Famicom (although not the keyboard for it, nor a cartridge to load my own software in) < 1588474284 622107 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :could probably be ported, aye? < 1588474337 561334 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I suppose so. < 1588474405 107768 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, no emulator I know of supports separated disk images, even though I said that would be a better feature to have. > 1588474563 899305 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03HTV04 5* 10New user account > 1588475232 30816 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71648&oldid=71629 5* 03HTV04 5* (+321) 10/* Introductions */ > 1588475298 695879 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck implementations14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71649&oldid=69926 5* 03HTV04 5* (+104) 10Added my optimizing compiler for SmileBASIC 4. > 1588475354 967370 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck implementations14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71650&oldid=71649 5* 03HTV04 5* (+3) 10Fixed typo < 1588475922 317390 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric : ;; Enchantment - Aura ;; Enchant permanent which is attached to another permanent ;; Enchanted permanent has totem armor and cumulative upkeep {1}. < 1588480823 183783 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w < 1588480826 793546 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:ronald reagan//Ronald Reagan was an actor so great that he managed to convince the US that he was the President. Then he created the Star Wars project to destroy the Soviet Union. \ snow//Snow is Jesus's dandruffs, and some suspect that he is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen. It turns the sidewalks to white as if someone broke a lot of styrofoam on it. \ structural subtyping//Not to be confused with substructural typing. \ madness//mad < 1588480832 163653 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1588480833 23494 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:ness lies thataway. \ rincewind//Rincewind is a wizzard. He likes potatoes. < 1588480864 388774 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? mad < 1588480865 628872 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :This wisdom entry was censored for being too accurate. < 1588481092 834872 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588482796 684116 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION completely forgot to work on his VAX emulator today ):
< 1588482828 475982 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now will you do it, then? < 1588482935 30473 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wishes she could still focus on projects like that
< 1588482940 186132 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :A VAX emulator sounds neat < 1588484047 76394 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it's midnight < 1588484054 906030 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am planning to go to bed :P < 1588484078 516840 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe could add some instructions to the instr table but that's about it < 1588484110 631988 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also the weekend < 1588484127 564492 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mind, you may have plans in the morning. < 1588484136 207978 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sunday morning plans are not that uncommon, I suppose. < 1588484167 129561 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people go to church on Sunday, but now is not the time to do that, with these virus < 1588484171 53476 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was planning to support a pseudo-64bit extension as a non-DEC-compliant feature flag, could go add those instr IDs < 1588484179 517719 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So a range iterator would look like struct It { int cur, end, value; }; < 1588484198 229529 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some churches have been doing video services for their congregation, which seems like a reasonable compromise. < 1588484202 757435 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It start(int end) { return (It){.end = end}; } < 1588484233 889205 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :#[cfg(feature = "64bit")] < 1588484236 326503 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric : ADDQ2 = 0xC0FD, < 1588484238 302282 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is gonna be repeated a lot < 1588484244 332055 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I'm a follower of any organized religions myself, but hey, some people are. < 1588484251 979973 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :🤷🏻‍♀️ < 1588484271 925386 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1588484296 687878 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It next(It *it) { if (it->cur >= it->end) return false; it->value = it->cur; it->cur++; return true; } < 1588484509 310759 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you translate between the two styles? < 1588484620 203691 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha. < 1588486380 490277 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:2886:d6cf:d1b6:4782 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588486647 467310 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:2886:d6cf:d1b6:4782 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1588486681 409027 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71651&oldid=8186 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+243) 10/* Binary lambda calculus example */ new section < 1588487489 820640 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588487631 588336 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone tried to play Scrabble with JavaScript reserved words worth triple? < 1588487698 240612 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1588487719 559712 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems a bit... arbitrary < 1588487732 987675 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was mentioned once in xkcd < 1588489249 509339 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should add a command into TeXnicard for defining your own SQL collations, one use of it can be for the rarity of cards in Magic: the Gathering < 1588489315 486502 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:1dff:8058:a94e:de9f JOIN :#esoteric < 1588489833 878895 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu JOIN :#esoteric < 1588491217 872983 :kevinalh!~kevinalh@179.6.193.17 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1588491829 95168 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1588491919 207611 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1588492525 85322 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1588492561 842735 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1588493485 875770 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1588493653 914958 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: HireFly < 1588494830 863745 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1588496036 95432 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1588496063 915013 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588497407 188802 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble QUIT :Quit: The bacteria inside Neil Armstrong were the first non-human life to land on the moon. And Neil Armstrong was their space suit. < 1588497430 656372 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble JOIN :#esoteric < 1588503658 201817 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:1dff:8058:a94e:de9f QUIT : < 1588503808 832463 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.207.254 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588504651 317667 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588505143 945662 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1588505466 339246 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588505633 98674 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1588505636 497188 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1588506798 940365 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:1973:2502:e7cd:2486 JOIN :#esoteric > 1588507606 590169 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71652&oldid=71425 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* binodu */ fix title < 1588507649 687884 :BWBellairs!~bwbellair@hellomouse/dev/bwbellairs QUIT :Quit: Quit > 1588507747 951843 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rhoam14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71653&oldid=71647 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+53) 10/* See also */ cat > 1588507758 197837 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rhoam Ultimate14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71654&oldid=71638 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+53) 10/* See Also */ cats > 1588507770 542101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Wrapping Rhoam14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71655&oldid=71639 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+53) 10/* See Also */ cats < 1588507814 678429 :BWBellairs!~bwbellair@hellomouse/dev/bwbellairs JOIN :#esoteric < 1588508075 279447 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:1973:2502:e7cd:2486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1588508098 855306 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Number Factory14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71656&oldid=54026 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+26) 10/* Computational Class */ link < 1588508553 897784 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:1973:2502:e7cd:2486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588512294 830020 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric > 1588512584 378070 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Number Factory14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71657&oldid=56204 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+44) 10unsigned < 1588514719 783558 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1588514868 1304 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588516192 99649 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588517311 333474 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :morning all < 1588517324 865218 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1588518161 237829 :craigo_!~craigo@144.136.206.168 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1588518358 670047 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588519205 125364 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1588519313 882060 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588520117 927447 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588520441 373335 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:c15e:8fc9:96ef:8ba2 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1588520622 817850 :kevinalh!~kevinalh@179.6.193.17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588521184 873022 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:85c8:e28f:24d2:a4af JOIN :#esoteric < 1588522386 29299 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1588522394 504729 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:1973:2502:e7cd:2486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588523487 976770 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:1973:2502:e7cd:2486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588525397 929803 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like this idea? < 1588527236 786119 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588527712 849531 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588527803 989028 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588527932 683288 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:1973:2502:e7cd:2486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588528615 877714 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:1973:2502:e7cd:2486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588529117 790578 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1588529245 792257 :kevinalh!~kevinalh@179.6.193.17 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1588529447 74416 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:1973:2502:e7cd:2486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588529484 227723 :kevinalh!~kevinalh@179.6.193.17 JOIN :#esoteric > 1588530030 396266 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71658&oldid=71626 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+2186) 10/* 2 */ < 1588530534 362020 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric > 1588530551 660459 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FROM HERE TO THERE14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71659 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+3442) 10Created page with "'''FROM HERE TO THERE''' is an esolang by [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow]]. ==Syntax== Each line has the following syntax (lines can be separated by "\n", "\r\n", "\n ",..." > 1588530555 14959 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71660&oldid=71658 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-2410) 10/* 2 */ > 1588530644 430687 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71661&oldid=71642 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+25) 10/* F */ + [[FROM HERE TO THERE]] > 1588530684 346076 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71662&oldid=71579 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+68) 10/* Languages */ < 1588530687 995685 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:3891:6e06:5183:7608 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588530758 886470 :PSDW!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1588530763 887590 :PSDW!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588530772 886986 :PSDW!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1588530857 498251 :PSDW!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 7 2 3 * 1 8 902345 < 1588530857 690077 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSDW: 7 16 2707035 < 1588530868 446225 :PSDW!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :1234567890 ^ 12345678990 < 1588530880 200513 :PSDW!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ quit < 1588530880 419855 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSDW: |value error: quit < 1588530894 579796 :PSDW!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 1234567890 ^ 12345678990 < 1588530894 844904 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSDW: _ < 1588530899 965447 :PSDW!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ _ < 1588530900 185022 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSDW: _ < 1588530936 592424 :PSDW!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 1 + 4 == 2 + 3 < 1588530936 811754 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSDW: 1 < 1588530960 990801 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:3891:6e06:5183:7608 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds > 1588531053 482664 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71663&oldid=71578 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+136) 10/* FROM HERE TO THERE */ > 1588531134 847599 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FROM HERE TO THERE14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71664&oldid=71659 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-1) 10/* Computational class] */ typo < 1588531698 927167 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:3891:6e06:5183:7608 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588531795 575317 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:3891:6e06:5183:7608 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588532066 134706 :PSDW!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 12345 ^ 675 < 1588532066 310502 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSDW: _ < 1588532071 280159 :PSDW!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 12345 < 1588532071 500592 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSDW: 12345 < 1588532075 338918 :PSDW!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 1234567890 < 1588532075 555323 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSDW: 1234567890 < 1588532078 617707 :PSDW!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 12081248139759817359 < 1588532078 833184 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSDW: 1.20812e19 < 1588532084 183920 :PSDW!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ max < 1588532084 395790 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSDW: |value error: max < 1588532091 106596 :PSDW!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ _14242415135135153125 < 1588532091 330072 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSDW: _1.42424e19 < 1588532098 465025 :PSDW!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 1424124.124e2 < 1588532098 640021 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSDW: 1.42412e8 < 1588532153 722662 :PSDW!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588532226 80534 :kevinalh!~kevinalh@179.6.193.17 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1588532432 805385 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1588532473 819463 :kevinalh!~kevinalh@179.6.193.17 JOIN :#esoteric > 1588532670 451716 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[074214]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71665&oldid=71257 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-5) 10/* Implications / Speculation verging on the mystical */ typofix > 1588532724 74552 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71666&oldid=71539 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-97) 10 > 1588532768 98906 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71667&oldid=71666 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+68) 10 > 1588532796 45212 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71668&oldid=71667 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+13) 10/* A /* B */ C */ < 1588533330 483005 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:3891:6e06:5183:7608 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588534072 34712 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:3891:6e06:5183:7608 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588534319 835202 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1588535099 849573 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:3891:6e06:5183:7608 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588535261 214910 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this < 1588535422 913970 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? this < 1588535425 907261 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is something people on the channel like to talk about. We're often unsure what this is, though. Nobody likes this. < 1588535446 602770 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Do you like this? < 1588535468 800071 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION likes the attitude of this channel
< 1588535627 942810 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1588535803 907552 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I say I like this, then they are lying, but if I say I do not like this, then I will have to delete it. Therefore, I don't know. < 1588535804 428531 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:3891:6e06:5183:7608 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588535874 994818 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sounds like Richard Smullyan's puzzle < 1588535950 879261 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, either that, or I am nobody.) < 1588536104 265385 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it mandatory to delete things you don't like? < 1588536153 271424 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, actually is probably better to keep it in case one person likes this, but, they say that nobody likes this, and if that is true then there isn't a point. < 1588536995 407496 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{} < 1588537003 399809 :{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin < 1588537076 88950 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de QUIT :Quit: zseri < 1588537193 763091 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1588537676 492316 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1588538133 963342 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:3891:6e06:5183:7608 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588538179 356366 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1588538301 355471 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:3891:6e06:5183:7608 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588538316 493364 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:3891:6e06:5183:7608 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588538495 333378 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.207.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a point, actually in this line there are nine points over each of “i” letters (silly, they’re called dots, you’d say, but but but but) < 1588538499 770141 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.207.254 NICK :arseniiv < 1588538848 712856 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de QUIT :Quit: zseri < 1588538868 787599 :Antebrationist!ca9a82a6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.202.154.130.166 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588538877 846786 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1588538908 613071 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deletion's hard < 1588538948 410970 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :From B-trees? That's annoyingly true. < 1588538956 15727 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:3891:6e06:5183:7608 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1588539024 416185 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data structures get easier if you only have to support adding things. Pity everything's finite. < 1588539095 954163 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :One trick you can do is not rebalance your B-trees on deletion. < 1588539106 218536 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easy peasy lemon squeezy. < 1588539213 975407 :Antebrationist8!ca9a82a6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.202.154.130.166 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588539246 656754 :Antebrationist!ca9a82a6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.202.154.130.166 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588539255 691900 :Antebrationist8!ca9a82a6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.202.154.130.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've completed the initialization of the Minsky machine, with 5 pointers. < 1588539321 586758 :Antebrationist8!ca9a82a6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.202.154.130.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, is two registers enough for turing completeness? < 1588539330 274564 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Antebrationist8: Yes < 1588539338 134381 :Antebrationist8!ca9a82a6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.202.154.130.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How so? < 1588539386 835293 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know all of the details, but yes it is enough (although one is insufficient). < 1588539430 965608 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use two registers to simulate a stack, and you can use two registers to simulate four registers. < 1588539450 400567 :Antebrationist8!ca9a82a6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.202.154.130.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, okay. That sounds turing complete. < 1588539609 330397 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:3891:6e06:5183:7608 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588539634 107296 :Antebrationist8!ca9a82a6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.202.154.130.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia has a proof. < 1588539940 938150 :Antebrationist8!ca9a82a6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.202.154.130.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is a Minsky machine a finite-state automaton? < 1588540030 16717 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is easy to see that one register is insufficient. < 1588540056 733341 :Antebrationist8!ca9a82a6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.202.154.130.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but why is a Minsky machine a finite-state automaton if the counters have an infinite number of values? < 1588540066 819463 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know? < 1588540290 400055 :aloril_!~aloril@mobile-access-b04806-254.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1588540331 734905 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :Antebrationist8: a turing machine is also a finite state automaton. < 1588540342 582260 :Antebrationist8!ca9a82a6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.202.154.130.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1588540347 901638 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588540352 942331 :aloril!~aloril@83-148-239-202.dynamic.lounea.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1588540385 883015 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588540418 243674 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, finite automata aren't automatically in one computational class just because they use finite state automata. what matters is what data structure is paired with your finite state automaton. < 1588540487 201770 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can pair a state machine with nothing and get what you'd expect: you're only able to store the current state. if you attach a tape, and wire up the transitions to be tape conditions + actions, it becomes a turing machine. < 1588540514 533954 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :finite automata are the backbone of control flow. they do not determine how powerful a particular automaton can be. the structure they manipulate does that. < 1588540576 149979 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that make sense? < 1588540689 79854 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: whoa, you're a SAT solvulator? < 1588540696 221131 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :solvulater alligator < 1588541184 408780 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? solvulator < 1588541185 656156 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :solvulator? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1588541186 718340 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? SAT solvulator < 1588541187 895254 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :SAT solvulator? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1588541308 978443 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de QUIT :Quit: zseri < 1588541318 866485 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1588541798 704515 :Antebrationist8!ca9a82a6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.202.154.130.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode, that makes perfect sense. Thank you. < 1588541804 411799 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:3891:6e06:5183:7608 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588541880 53588 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :no problem. < 1588542163 870264 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:3891:6e06:5183:7608 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588544116 874197 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1588544238 662704 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588544291 544837 :Antebrationist8!ca9a82a6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.202.154.130.166 QUIT :Quit: Connection closed < 1588544372 936387 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588544476 882360 :zseri!~zseri@ip4d158302.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1588544798 839925 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.207.254 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1588545228 55382 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:3891:6e06:5183:7608 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588545827 724756 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know of a bf variant already recorded that keeps track of an "indirection level". E.g. { increases indirection by one and } decreases indirection by one, so + becomes {>} and - becomes {<}. Same number of commands, but more expressive power. < 1588545907 701516 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, [{] < 1588546242 210497 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I thought about that too < 1588546315 338103 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:78b8:4045:7abc:207a JOIN :#esoteric < 1588546324 27511 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: also what does } do when the level is already 0 :) < 1588546365 54707 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't thought that far ahead :) < 1588546367 153097 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably, nothing, I suppose < 1588546374 24552 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: Anyway, it doesn't look familiar to me, for what it's worth. (I have not made a study of brainfuck derivatives.) < 1588546403 159695 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate adding to bf derivatives because there is such a wealth of them it's hard to believe these ideas haven't already been explored < 1588546430 377695 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :but like, 95% of them just add redundant commands or are substitutions < 1588546444 238659 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's time for a brainfuck derivative ontology :P < 1588546472 47110 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've thought about undergoing the herculanian task of organizing them, but geez < 1588546478 74524 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe next time I'm out of work < 1588546481 611628 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, then you can see if one is done or not. < 1588546574 348954 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:78b8:4045:7abc:207a QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1588546589 768339 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :And totally off topic, I just learned that "gay tail" has a completely different meaning in the world of dogs < 1588546651 690824 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vetstreet.com/dr-marty-becker/my-dog-has-a-gay-tail-what-does-this-mean < 1588546669 797886 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1588546810 683410 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one could also feature in a spy movie. < 1588546877 349230 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As long as it’s wagging, I’m happy. And you should be, too." < 1588546904 370290 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1588546969 516962 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really like this indirection idea. You could wrap a normal bf program in {} and have a memory mapped data pointer < 1588547087 788901 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many BF derivatives even are there? Way the fuck too many, at least, but < 1588547116 602551 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, way too many < 1588547220 377050 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: infinitely many, or close enough that it makes no difference < 1588547247 382365 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard of derivatives of regular languages. < 1588547254 406334 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that extends to programming languages? < 1588547271 346813 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that's the case, brainfuck is like the latin of programming languages < 1588547276 704656 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :millions of little bastardizations < 1588547317 534318 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: s/regular// < 1588547345 981185 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the point being that it's really an operation on any set of words) < 1588547416 294548 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's even relevant for context-free languages, cf. Greibach normal form. < 1588547559 347064 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew it was more general than regular languages but I wasn't sure how much. < 1588547568 527943 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But also if I just said "languages" it would be ambiguous. < 1588547569 585909 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar lowi < 1588547569 958352 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOWI 032250Z AUTO 11003KT 070V140 9999 OVC070 09/03 Q1019 < 1588547596 66994 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I see, it's a pretty simple operation. < 1588547628 654826 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Maybe the ambiguity would've made it better? I'm not sure I would've found the alternative meaning ("formal languages" in addition to "programming languages") though... so maybe not. < 1588547648 417836 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is this called a derivative? < 1588547731 254665 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure. Maybe if you treat words as monomials over a ring you get something similar? < 1588548116 823040 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, looking at how the derivative of a regular expression is computed I guess I can see some similarity. < 1588548168 292689 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like there's a difference between "an excessive finite number" and "actually infinite" :) < 1588548230 835238 :craigo_!~craigo@144.136.206.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588548563 986468 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:78b8:4045:7abc:207a JOIN :#esoteric < 1588548658 450080 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, the name seems to be due to Brzozowski (probably) and as far as I can see he didn't motivate the name... < 1588548658 581923 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588548688 394819 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: an inaccessible natural number is infinite for all intents and purposes ;) < 1588548709 422297 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :My math degree compels me to disagree. < 1588548735 511773 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the disagreement? < 1588548745 384762 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think an inaccessible natural number is necessarily a non-standard natural number, and those *are* infinite) < 1588548779 569614 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :humf < 1588548782 65070 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is dancing on a thin wire.
< 1588548809 624694 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure those really count as "natural numbers" unless you're using a very specialized and unusual definition thereof < 1588548828 7971 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1588548828 412034 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1588548847 14913 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :A natrual number is an element of a model of the Peano axioms. < 1588548852 861172 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:78b8:4045:7abc:207a QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588548883 290445 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With induction as an axiom schema to make it first order and allow non-standard models :P) < 1588548907 516737 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I think I *can* weasel my way out of this! < 1588548917 618358 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I can see the Peano axioms don't have any "inaccessible" natural numbers, since it seems to require that all numbers are reachable < 1588548945 977009 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not if I don't accept your definitions as being commonly-accepted or immediately useful or applicable! < 1588548973 946375 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Well, there's a difference between consistency and omega-consistency... < 1588548996 960328 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Yes, I know, although I fail to see how that is relevant. < 1588549012 763264 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh but all I have to demonstrate is that *I* am working with an--ahem--reasonable set of definitions that support my ideas. < 1588549040 352048 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know, generally mathematics doesn't work as a debate format. < 1588549062 567005 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It means that the Peano axioms (at least in their first-order logic formulation) are not as strong as you believe. < 1588549076 591817 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more about working with an already-agreed-upon set of axioms and determining what can be derived from them. :) < 1588549081 794318 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1588549088 783669 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1588549092 501190 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: We're close enough to the foundations to be open to debate. < 1588549108 167942 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: O, OK < 1588549118 818052 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For what it's worth I read int-e's first sentence that way. < 1588549134 215372 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: To my mind, the saving grace of math is not that there is no debate... it is that most of mathematics is detached from these foundational matters. < 1588549134 623959 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I figured "inaccessible" was probably talking about non-standard models. < 1588549162 277381 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I mean, it *would* have to be. < 1588549214 905850 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly I'm rejecting the use of a non-standard model as being applicable at all :D < 1588549227 690334 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Where's the fun in that? < 1588549233 140496 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am reasonably sure that the number of Brainfuck derivatives that exists is a 100% bog-standard natural, alas < 1588549238 862145 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: But how do you feel about Lawvere theories? < 1588549240 258057 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shrugs
< 1588549247 694284 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Brainfuck derivatives, they're not fun. :P < 1588549264 933587 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bog-standard natural is either zero or the successor of a bog-standard natural. < 1588549295 387521 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was that set theory that had some sort of predicate like that? < 1588549299 251198 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm just arguing in my free time. ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpAvcGcEc0k ) > 1588549309 696021 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FROM HERE TO THERE14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71669&oldid=71664 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+143) 10/* Values of y */ < 1588549330 380530 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I can't dispute that. > 1588549389 706545 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Charlie0 5* 10New user account < 1588549417 876271 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I might act differently if this was ##math... though I probably wouldn't. This is too much fun :) < 1588549429 190572 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe :) < 1588549473 514380 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes, isn't that how it is work? < 1588549474 903393 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Full disclosure, my degree is in applied math specifically; waaay more concerned with the naturals and reals than I am more interesting number systems :P < 1588549503 195558 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't remember the details about this. < 1588549525 778450 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like ZF, but with an extra predicate -- maybe for things called "standard sets" -- that could only be used in particular ways < 1588549571 385791 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I think it was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_set_theory < 1588549758 76410 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: On a different level, I'm not sure that the mathematical model of natural numbers is applicable to the number of Brainfuck derivatives... because that would mean that we would have to draw a line between languages that are mere Brainfuck derivatives and those that stand on their own, and we'd probably also have to produce a complete list of candidate languages. In practice that adds a... < 1588549764 32617 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :...degree of uncertainty and malleability that makes the number not mathematically well-defined. I'm honestly not sure which branch of philosophy such discussions belong to... < 1588549785 432235 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ontology, I dare say. < 1588549825 396167 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohnology. < 1588549834 773319 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean yeah, basically < 1588549864 45276 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that is a good start. < 1588549923 323682 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alas, that's a branch of philosophy I haven't much studied. < 1588550041 886175 :Charlie0!55946beb@s55946beb.adsl.online.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1588550052 867722 :Charlie0!55946beb@s55946beb.adsl.online.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :How in heavens do you update the Introductions page? < 1588550067 639733 :Charlie0!55946beb@s55946beb.adsl.online.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :I follow every single step but it still won't let me < 1588550072 156327 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :🤷🏻‍♀️ < 1588550116 757935 :Charlie0!55946beb@s55946beb.adsl.online.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Editing Esolang:Introduce yourself (section)Error: This action has been automatically identified as harmful, and therefore disallowed. If you believe your action was constructive, please inform an administrator of what you were trying to do. A brief description of the abuse rule which your action matched is: require new users to introduce < 1588550117 256830 :Charlie0!55946beb@s55946beb.adsl.online.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :themselves < 1588550120 34063 :Charlie0!55946beb@s55946beb.adsl.online.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1588550169 60492 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has like one page on the wiki to her name from 14 years ago
< 1588550174 366328 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't help ya there, sorry