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00:09:39 <b_jonas> oh great, and he's doing namespace violation too
00:10:42 <b_jonas> mp_add is used as the name of an extern in C namespace in both libtom and bellard's libbf, for incompatible things. I guess he thought that libtom was already so namespace-clashing (it defines functions that clash with gmp) that it deserves this.
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00:21:29 <imode> I see conversations about rewriting and I get excited.
00:24:20 <b_jonas> well, they're free software, so I can rename extern identifiers and recompile if I ever want to link these together
00:28:22 <zzo38> I try not to add too many dependencies, in order to avoid such thing, as well as other problems
00:30:25 <b_jonas> yes, it's unlikely that I'd ever want to link any two of these together
00:30:44 <b_jonas> but it could happen if I link together other bigger libraries that link them
00:30:57 <b_jonas> well, still unlikely
00:33:27 <esowiki> [[Streetcode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71943&oldid=71939 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-139) 
00:33:53 <b_jonas> zzo38: note though that I started to look at bellard's libbf exactly because it's a much smaller dependency than even MPIR
00:34:20 <b_jonas> obviously it is also worse in some respects than MPIR+MPFR, you can't expect it to do everything those larger libraries can do
00:34:58 <b_jonas> (and yes, it's also smaller than libtom or boost multiprecision)
00:36:56 <esowiki> [[Streetcode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71944&oldid=71943 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+288) /* Streets */
00:39:24 <zzo38> It may be possible to fork the file if needed and if possible, to use #define commands to rename the functions. (Depending on the program, it might work.)
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00:57:39 <zzo38> Why the computer sounds like one of the fans keeps going faster and slower? The sensors doesn't mention that
01:08:18 <zzo38> (Whatever it is, the temperature seems to be unaffected, including the hard drive temperature.)
01:08:30 <zzo38> (The fan speed as reported by computer also seems to be unaffected.)
01:09:02 <imode> fan speed is usually variable.
01:09:13 <imode> don't need something running to constantly remove heat if your load is low.
01:12:03 <zzo38> OK, but does it usually adjust the speed that fast? On my computer it sometimes does but not always.
01:13:05 <imode> if it's under high load, then yes, fans typically spin to remove heat.
01:15:38 <zzo38> OK, although as I said, it seems to be independent of the temperature and of the system load, as far as I can tell.
01:18:20 <imode> you should probably monitor your system.
01:19:09 <zzo38> In what way?
01:19:38 <zzo38> I have temperature and system load displayed at all times, together with the RAM usage, current date/time, and number of email messages.
01:23:56 <imode> yeah that'd be the thing you'd want to monitor. graph the temp and load over time.
01:24:07 <imode> and fan speed if you have a monitor.
01:27:47 <zzo38> I have a monitor for CPU fan speed and CHASSIS1 fan speed; it also says CHASSIS2 fan speed and POWER fan speed but those last two always report zero and have always done so (maybe it is unable to measure the fan speed), and that was the case on all of my previous computers too.
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01:53:22 <int-e> did you check for dust
02:01:28 <zzo38> I didn't open the computer. What is the best way to clean the dust once I do open it?
02:02:56 <int-e> I'm crazy and use a vacuum cleaner.
02:04:47 <int-e> But there are probably specialized devices (some sort of brush with protection against electrostatic buildup with a small vaccum attached cleaner maybe)
02:05:27 <int-e> vacuum attached cleaner... embrace the new word order.
02:06:13 <zzo38> How long will it take for mail to reach to Canada from New York?
02:06:23 <zzo38> (now due to the virus)
02:07:14 <int-e> . o O ( www.usps.com )
02:07:53 <imode> we ain't google.
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04:13:50 <esowiki> [[User talk:Ais523]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71945&oldid=71797 * Ais523 * (+825) /* Thoughts on generalized simple translations */ it could affect parsing
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05:09:46 <zzo38> What interval should I use to make a graph of temperature and system load?
05:12:14 <zzo38> Now I will go in bed, but maybe tomorrow I might do that
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08:54:17 <shachaf> zzo38: I sample every 5 seconds for my graphs.
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09:44:10 <rain1> check out this group theory 
09:44:15 <rain1> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higman%27s_embedding_theorem
09:44:23 <rain1> https://arxiv.org/abs/2005.02036
09:55:22 <rain1> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presentation_of_a_group#Novikov%E2%80%93Boone_theorem
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12:55:30 <zzo38> shachaf: OK
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15:25:13 <zzo38> Is it necessary to check if the program overslept?
15:57:51 <arseniiv> kmc: hi! How was your post about pi calculus been called? I remember you told about it something interesting and linked to the post with Haskell translation or something, and there was a helpful example to understand how the calculus works at all; I tried to tell a friend about the calculus and I think this example would be very helpful
15:59:30 <arseniiv> (I tried to search for it in my browser history and didn’t find anything)
16:00:22 <kmc> hi arseniiv! http://mainisusuallyafunction.blogspot.com/2011/09/lambda-to-pi.html
16:00:51 <kmc> it has a pi-calculus interpreter in Haskell, and a lamba calculus to pi calculus compiler
16:01:10 <pikhq> Oh right, I forgot that was your blog
16:01:11 <kmc> glad you like, hope your friend likes it too
16:01:24 <kmc> it's my old blog :)
16:01:28 <arseniiv> kmc: thank you very much!
16:01:28 <kmc> my new blog is https://kmcallister.github.io/skywave/
16:01:37 <kmc> I have different interests now
16:01:47 <kmc> though the old one was still pretty eclectic
16:01:51 <pikhq> Well yes I know that :)
16:02:00 <kmc> I've been thinking about writing another blog post soon actuall
16:02:04 <pikhq> More just, I forgot the pairing
16:02:37 <kmc> maybe about mushroom growing
16:02:49 <kmc> or maybe documenting one of my ham radio projects from long ago that i never did a proper writeup for
16:02:50 <pikhq> :)
16:05:12 <pikhq> (also, obl. hi, how are you doing this morning?)
16:05:36 <arseniiv> <kmc> maybe about mushroom growing => with mushroom photos?
16:06:02 <kmc> maybe! mushrooms are very photogenic!
16:06:09 <arseniiv> . o O ( hm can one grow a Befunge interpreter at home )
16:07:03 <kmc> https://imgur.com/a/eL4dgHC
16:08:31 <fizzie> "Fungal Computers Inc. 'Computers that grow on you'"
16:08:43 <fizzie> To quote https://www.bedroomlan.org/hardware/fungus/d/figure/default/1024w/fungal-growth-83.png
16:08:43 <myname> love it
16:09:39 <arseniiv> (I’m slightly afraid of mold: what would happen if I’ll breathe in its spores unknowingly?)
16:10:16 <myname> you'll become a cyborg, i guess
16:11:12 <pikhq> Or a cordyceps-style drone or smth
16:16:19 <kmc> fizzie: :D
16:16:31 <kmc> yeah spores can make you sick
16:16:36 <kmc> mushroom farmer's lung is a thing
16:19:37 * kmc just tossed out a big batch of mold :(
16:19:57 <kmc> you have to be vigilant, once you start growing mold it only makes the problem worse :(
16:20:04 <b_jonas> ouch mold
16:20:31 <kmc> pikhq: I'm doing well this morning, how bout you?
16:21:44 <pikhq> I'm doing alright! Kinda chill day at work today (read: I'm on IRC) and not hurting as much as I was yesterday
16:22:38 <pikhq> And, ooof. Mold instead of mushrooms :( no fun
16:25:19 <arseniiv> myname: pikhq: now how do I tell which one without experiencing it irreparably? :S
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16:27:14 <pikhq> I'm only mycologist-adjacent, but I think that's gonna be a matter of using a microscope to examine the mold to hopefully identify the species
16:27:36 <pikhq> Otoh, honestly, if it's mold maybe just don't risk it.
16:27:41 <arseniiv> cyborg seems way cooler than control by fungi. Hm wait it can be both at the same time and it will be dangerous, we are borg and all that
16:27:46 <pikhq> Those are generally not good things for people.
16:28:27 <pikhq> Fortunately, cordyceps is only that bad for, like, arthropods
16:28:50 <arseniiv> yeah, when I throw out something with mold inside, I’ll then wash my hands and face and even mouth
16:28:57 <pikhq> But idk, maybe you're a spider that speaks English
16:29:23 <arseniiv> I’m a google crawler^W^W^W^W wait have I said anything
16:30:24 <pikhq> Idk, I could admit to weirder
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17:20:20 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Maadneet *  New user account
17:24:38 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71946&oldid=71761 * Maadneet * (+276) /* Introductions */
18:04:41 <esowiki> [[Streetcode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71947&oldid=71944 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+84) /* Ambiguous turns */
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18:19:41 <esowiki> [[User:Tetratrary/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71948&oldid=71942 * Tetratrary * (-2464) 
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18:48:27 <esowiki> [[&brainfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71949&oldid=71730 * Zseri * (+1) /* See also */ update absolute-addrs repo url
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19:02:05 <Sgeo_> At some point there was a Tcl NPAPI plugin, for viewing "Tclets", Tcl applets on the web. Some of those have graphics, stored in text format in the Tcl
19:02:58 <Sgeo_> http://kiblerelectronics.com/tcl/sol.tcl
19:03:08 <Sgeo_> http://kiblerelectronics.com/tcl/plugin_sol.html
19:09:35 <pikhq> I'm wondering how different the world would be if Tcl took off in that format
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19:19:20 <esowiki> [[Befinde]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71950&oldid=71728 * Zseri * (-3) update repo url
19:19:44 <Sgeo_> I wonder if it's safer than Java. Tcl has "safe interpreter" features, I don't know how good they are.
19:22:22 <imode> the world needs a sandboxed language.
19:22:37 <imode> wasm is trying to be that.
19:22:45 <pikhq> In principle they let you restrict all I/O and run untrusted code. However, while the overall quality of the Tcl codebase is quite high IMO, it hasn't really faced a lot of real world attack or abuse.
19:23:06 <pikhq> So I wouldn't be shocked if that is vulnerable to malicious code.
19:25:40 <pikhq> I have some issues with wasm, but I kinda hope it takes off.
19:26:26 <pikhq> It's not literally ideal, but it is the one attempt at a standard language-agnostic sandboxable runtime that seems like it has the traction to succeed.
19:32:44 <Sgeo_> I wonder if I should try compiling Tcl with Emscripten
19:32:59 <Sgeo_> Or ... taking the Tclem stuff someone else did and extend it to behave like the plugin
19:33:51 <Sgeo_> Blah this doesn't have Tk https://aidanhs.github.io/emtcl/
19:36:13 <imode> wasm is what I'd call a transitional technology, much like asm.js was.
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19:36:48 <imode> once it has enough traction, it'll be surpassed, and we'll get new toolchains for the thing that surpasses it.
19:36:53 <imode> at least I hope...
19:52:40 <int-e> . o O ( cute, this site wanted to load a script from undefined.undefined... )
19:53:02 <esowiki> [[Esowar]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71951 * Orby * (+2782) Creating Esowar page
19:55:05 <esowiki> [[Esowar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71952&oldid=71951 * Orby * (+122) 
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19:57:15 <orbitaldecay> Anybody wanna play a brainfuck style core war game?
19:58:09 <int-e> there's bfjoust
20:00:55 <orbitaldecay> Similar in concept, but esowar has the program and data on the same tape
20:01:07 <orbitaldecay> allowing for self modifying code and other tricks
20:01:58 <int-e> How does that deal with []?
20:02:17 <orbitaldecay> If there is no matching bracket it's treated as a nop
20:02:42 <orbitaldecay> is that your question?
20:02:49 <int-e> And [ scans forward and ] scans backward at the time the instruction is executed?
20:02:55 <orbitaldecay> yes
20:03:04 <int-e> Okay, makes sense.
20:03:28 <orbitaldecay> the objective in esowar is to get your opponent to execute the "die" instruction
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20:04:17 <orbitaldecay> the most obvious way of doing so is to overwrite the tape with the die instruction and hope you don't suicide, but the ideas are endless
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20:08:14 <esowiki> [[Esowar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71953&oldid=71952 * Orby * (+66) 
20:08:31 <esowiki> [[Esowar]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71954&oldid=71953 * Orby * (+2) /* See also */
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20:11:42 <int-e> My feeling is that brainfuck is too slow for this kind of stuff. [[+>]+] will disrupt a lot of programs without producing a die instruction... so expect many draws?
20:13:25 <int-e> Maybe that feeling wrong if it's just those 7 symbols. (Can you assign them values so it's clear what + does to them?)
20:14:11 <int-e> (yes, I can guess that r = 0, d = 1, and so on, but I shouldn't have to guess :) )
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20:17:36 <esowiki> [[Esowar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71955&oldid=71954 * Int-e * (+60) /* Introduction */ values
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20:20:02 <orbitaldecay> Thank you for updating it :) The example is very effective at producing quick wins / suicides [+]+[<[+]+]
20:20:32 <orbitaldecay> Working on adding detection for it's own base to that so it doesn't suicide
20:21:56 <orbitaldecay> [[+>]+] would be effective at producing draws too
20:22:21 <orbitaldecay> but not before a [+]+[<[+]+] produced a whole bunch of die instructions that you'd eventually hit
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20:31:53 <int-e> The idea was that [[+>]+] would move faster than [<[+]+].
20:32:04 <int-e> But meh. I'm probably not getting into this anyway.
20:32:17 <int-e> I resisted core wars, I mostly resisted bfjoust. I can resist this.
20:32:45 <int-e> Espoecially because I have plenty of other things to ponder.
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20:36:59 <int-e> But for what it's worth, I expected there to be more than one no-op when I suggested it.
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20:53:10 <zzo38> Yesterday I thought of something which turns out to be the same as a "LOOP" programming language on Wikipedia, with the same set of commands, but a different syntax. However, today I found that they already did that (although with the different syntax than I have).
20:54:39 <esowiki> [[Streetcode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71956&oldid=71947 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+838) /* Streets */
20:57:55 <esowiki> [[Streetcode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71957&oldid=71956 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+169) /* Infinite loop */
20:58:27 <esowiki> [[Streetcode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71958&oldid=71957 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+60) /* Streets */
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21:14:04 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71960&oldid=71959 * Zax2002 * (+60) /* Introductions */
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21:42:39 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck implementations]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71961&oldid=71650 * Zax2002 * (+123) /* Normal implementations */
21:58:11 <esowiki> [[Dig]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71962&oldid=71892 * Emerald * (+315) Added operations
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23:47:23 <zzo38> I made a graph of the temperature and system load average, although it is still recording (I set it to record for 24 hours).
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