00:00:06 <orbitaldecay> imode: a term rewriting metalanguage. Like thue for term rewriting languages. How clear is the page?
00:00:56 <orbitaldecay> It was the result of an evolution of thoughts and I'm wondering how well I described it on the page
00:11:02 <imode> have you seen my attempt at a term rewriting lang?
00:12:10 <imode> https://hatebin.com/bndqcbpthq
00:12:39 <imode> oh, that's a non-working ver.
00:12:57 <imode> https://hatebin.com/ierbsdhqph better.
00:14:28 <imode> it was enough that I was able to write quicksort in it.
00:14:35 <esowiki> [[There Once was an Esolang Named Fred]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72979&oldid=72807 * Baidicoot * (+1225)
00:15:44 <imode> https://git.imode.tech/?p=python/modal;a=blob;f=modal.py;hb=HEAD here's the interpreter that goes along with it.
00:30:10 <orbitaldecay> imode: I was checking out the basic idea the other day. Will have to take a look at the interpretter when I'm in front of my computer. Bookmarking now.
01:02:53 <imode> cool. your solutions are probably more elegant. mine are dirty hacks.
01:17:05 <esowiki> [[SpaghettiScript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72980&oldid=72950 * UltimateProGrammer * (-290) Changed FizzBuzz Example and Added note about implementation
01:19:01 <esowiki> [[SpaghettiScript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72981&oldid=72980 * UltimateProGrammer * (+72) Added ascii implementation note
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03:19:35 <esowiki> [[Symbols]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72982&oldid=70773 * Voltage2007 * (+527)
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03:40:50 <esowiki> [[1argasm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72983&oldid=65081 * Voltage2007 * (+128)
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05:52:55 <zzo38> Now I managed to get kerning and ligatures working (although ligatures other than =: are not yet tested, although I think Computer Modern fonts don't use other kind of ligatures and I don't know what fonts would use such ligatures).
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06:46:54 <esowiki> [[User:Zzo38/Untitled 4]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72984&oldid=72896 * Zzo38 * (+291)
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07:29:50 <esowiki> [[Assemblei]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72985&oldid=69255 * Oklomsy * (+138) /* Interpreter */
07:33:10 <esowiki> [[Assemblei]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72986&oldid=72985 * Oklomsy * (-57)
07:36:42 <b_jonas> zzo38: I think there's a ?` ligature
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09:39:08 <rain1> > the Garden of Eden theorem, stating that a cellular automaton has a configuration with no predecessor if and only if it has two different asymptotic configurations which evolve to the same configuration
09:39:11 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:12: error: parse error on input ‘of’
09:39:12 <rain1> is this hard to prove?
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10:03:21 <cpressey> rain1: it certainly sounds like it'd be hard to prove, but I don't really know. what's an "asymptotic configuration"?
10:05:19 <rain1> i will try to find out
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10:06:58 <rain1> i x,y are asymptotic if diff(x,y) is finite
10:07:30 <rain1> diff(x,y) is the set of configurations where they do not agree at time t
10:07:50 <rain1> so basically we are looking for two configurations which end up in the same state eventually
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11:01:19 <cpressey> Oh, if and only if *the cellular automaton* has two different asymptotic configurations. I was misreading it slightly.
11:02:05 <cpressey> If two different configurations converge, then there exists a configuration to which no other configuration evolves
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11:16:54 <ais523> <arseniiv> hi all again, does anybody know an example of an S-expression rewriting esolang? (analogous to Markov algorithm or Thue) ← Precognition, but it's unimplemented
11:17:11 <ais523> it's fully designed though
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13:11:37 <cpressey> rain1: I think I understand it a little better thinking about the converse -- if there do not exist two converging configurations, then there does not exist a Garden of Eden either. It sounds like it's related to reversibility.
13:13:01 <rain1> being able to reverse all patterns would rule out a garden of eden
13:14:12 <cpressey> Yes, that'd be the "if" direction, still not sure how the "only if" direction goes though.
13:14:25 <esowiki> [[SpaghettiScript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72987&oldid=72981 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-6) /* Implementation */
13:14:52 <cpressey> But tbh I'm not thinking very hard about it. It might in fact be easy to show once you get all the parts together.
13:19:57 <esowiki> [[Alphaprint]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72988&oldid=72325 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-2) /* Resources */
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13:39:23 <esowiki> [[Trml]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72989&oldid=72975 * Orby * (+256)
13:57:19 <esowiki> [[Code is eso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72990&oldid=67731 * DmilkaSTD * (-1289) Replaced content with "Getting remake."
14:00:19 <esowiki> [[Code is eso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72991&oldid=72990 * DmilkaSTD * (-8)
14:02:19 <esowiki> [[Code is eso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72992&oldid=72991 * DmilkaSTD * (+92)
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14:18:37 <arseniiv> @tell imode oh! Maybe that’s why I sensed I encountered something like that not long ago!
14:19:56 <arseniiv> though IIRC it doesn’t work like a Markov algorithm would, having a specific order of rules very important to execution results
14:30:37 <cpressey> arseniiv: ah, you want non-deterministic tree-rewriting? (I mean: what Thue calls "non-deterministic")
14:35:25 <arseniiv> cpressey: maybe non-deterministic is also an option! (MA, on the other hand, is deterministic.) Though right now I don’t want the language badly, that was just an option for writing a simple register machine implementation to add to my friend’s repo of various idiomatic implementations of the same machine with the same functionality in different languages. We also consider writing that machine in itself, but I’m lazy to begin. The
14:35:25 <arseniiv> n I thought maybe I’ll be able to write the impl in MA, but that quickly proven itself *very* tarpit-y and I quitted
14:40:48 <cpressey> To be clear, I don't mean really non-deterministic, I mean, like Thue, you are given no guarantee of the order that the rewrites will happen (so if you want your program to have consistent behaviour, you need to code those guards into your program.)
14:42:16 <cpressey> I can never tell with this word
14:42:27 <cpressey> I don't know enough about Markov algorithms to say
14:42:58 <cpressey> I tend to confuse it with "Markov chain" which I do tend to think of as something generated with a random factor
14:43:36 <cpressey> At any rate, I don't think I've seen a term-rewriting version of Thue, which is basically what I was thnking of
14:47:41 <arseniiv> cpressey: yeah yesterday I almost wrote “Markov chain” several times too when mentioning them in another place
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15:00:10 <esowiki> [[LogicF---]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72993&oldid=71066 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+30) /* Infinite loop */
15:07:42 <esowiki> [[Interfrac]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72994&oldid=65924 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+0) /* See also */
15:08:39 <esowiki> [[Comefrom0x10]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72995&oldid=70900 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+0)
15:11:14 <esowiki> [[Category:Implemented]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72996&oldid=7903 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+1)
15:15:48 <esowiki> [[Ais523]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72997&oldid=53460 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+14)
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15:47:19 <arseniiv> woah, I’ve came up with a datatype “a complex number z with |z| ≤ 1”. One can overflow on addition, but not multiplication, and maybe one also could use as literals only numbers of form exp(i t) with t from a fixed finite subset of reals
15:48:58 <arseniiv> adding a special value ∞ to this type in lieu of IEEE 754 can be useful^W esoful, moreso if arithmetic is defined with it in a weird way
15:51:51 <arseniiv> of course having a value of that type represented by a pair of regular IEEE 754 float64s is also quite eso in runtime behaviour (an expression may overflow suddenly when mathematically its value is in the disk)
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16:05:17 <FreeFull> arseniiv: It would probably be easier to represent it as a magnitude, angle pair
16:05:51 <arseniiv> FreeFull: but not as eso! Though this way addition and subtraction would get weird rounding errors, I like it
16:06:17 <FreeFull> Right, a + ib makes it easier to do addition
16:06:32 <arseniiv> also I think ∞ should be printed and read as “FAR”
16:06:35 <FreeFull> r*exp(i t) makes it easier to do multiplication
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17:33:39 <esowiki> [[History (programming language)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72999&oldid=68209 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+23)
17:35:26 <esowiki> [[TwoDucks]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73000&oldid=56202 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+27) /* Examples */
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18:45:01 <esowiki> [[BFStack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73004&oldid=70657 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+41) /* Computational class */ cats
18:47:37 <esowiki> [[BFStack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73005&oldid=73004 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+189)
18:52:49 <esowiki> [[Code is eso]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73006&oldid=72992 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+31)
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18:57:05 <zzo38> C has setjmp/longjmp, and some other programming languages have try/catch blocks. But what I would want is setjmp/longjmp with cleanup blocks.
19:05:12 <esowiki> [[Ruby]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73007&oldid=64847 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-19) rm redcat
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19:07:35 <b_jonas> zzo38: you'll have to implement that yourself using exceptions then
19:08:23 <fizzie> Hmm, call-with-current-continuation and dynamic-wind together are a *little* bit like "setjmp/longjmp with cleanup blocks".
19:08:55 <b_jonas> oh yeah, that scheme thing
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19:40:11 <zzo38> I don't know if LLVM supports it. I read the document about exception handling, which mentions setjmp/longjmp, although I don't know what things are possible.
19:41:44 <zzo38> I also thought of using setjmp/longjmp where a function stores the previous value of the jump buffer in a local variable before calling setjmp, and then restores it when it is finished, but this won't work so well if you are calling an external library which calls back into your program if that external library needs cleanup.
19:59:03 <esowiki> [[Octo]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73014&oldid=71155 * Apollyon094 * (+520)
20:00:25 <esowiki> [[Octo]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73015&oldid=73014 * Apollyon094 * (-36)
20:04:12 <zzo38> Glulx has catch and throw, which is a bit like setjmp/longjmp, although the data needed to restore the position is allocated on the stack instead of in a separate variable (and in Glulx, the stack belongs to a separate address space).
20:04:14 <esowiki> [[Octo]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73016&oldid=73015 * Apollyon094 * (-147)
20:04:56 <esowiki> [[Octo]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73017&oldid=73016 * Apollyon094 * (-5)
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21:20:27 <esowiki> [[SpaghettiScript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73018&oldid=72987 * UltimateProGrammer * (+62) Updated hello world+added note about functions being made in functions
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22:10:35 <esowiki> [[GUI4BF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73019&oldid=44581 * DmilkaSTD * (+220)
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22:30:14 <esowiki> [[Pikobrain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73021&oldid=70661 * DmilkaSTD * (+181)
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23:17:24 <esowiki> [[NICE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73024&oldid=66192 * DmilkaSTD * (+4634)
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23:21:19 <esowiki> [[Brainmaker]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73025&oldid=46958 * DmilkaSTD * (+31)
23:22:29 <esowiki> [[Brainmaker]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73026&oldid=73025 * DmilkaSTD * (-3)
23:24:14 <esowiki> [[Brainmaker]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73027&oldid=73026 * DmilkaSTD * (+48)
23:28:04 <esowiki> [[User talk:Moon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73028&oldid=66555 * DmilkaSTD * (+194)
23:29:13 <esowiki> [[User talk:Moon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73029&oldid=73028 * DmilkaSTD * (-31)
23:37:29 <esowiki> [[1mpr0mp2]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73030&oldid=45662 * DmilkaSTD * (+10)
23:38:01 <esowiki> [[1mpr0mp2]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73031&oldid=73030 * DmilkaSTD * (+10)
23:43:19 <esowiki> [[BF-PDA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73032&oldid=62331 * DmilkaSTD * (+14)
23:52:09 <esowiki> [[Snigl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73033&oldid=66715 * DmilkaSTD * (+10)
23:59:22 <esowiki> [[Multiply]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73034&oldid=68200 * DmilkaSTD * (+91)