< 1591833600 486180 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1591834573 991842 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wdxhgsxeqdwhlbxj QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1591834591 862104 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Quit: ... < 1591834726 955738 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1591835220 966642 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds > 1591835350 554474 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07International Phonetic Esoteric Language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73554&oldid=73513 5* 03Bigyihsuan 5* (+153) 10 < 1591835690 580768 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1591835870 435332 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:6c2b:fdf0:ad2b:569f JOIN :#esoteric < 1591836451 407438 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:6c2b:fdf0:ad2b:569f QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1591838410 531392 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-quxntlwmqbtpjrbi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone have a nice example of an easily computable function which is a bijection, but whose inverse is difficult to compute? < 1591838456 512783 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-quxntlwmqbtpjrbi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just thought of a function which technically qualifies, but whose domain (which is identical to its codomain) is itself very difficult to compute. < 1591838492 456554 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-quxntlwmqbtpjrbi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The domain is the collection of all 1000x1000 grids of bits which loop in Conway's Game of Life. < 1591838510 17694 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-quxntlwmqbtpjrbi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's easy to compute the next state; it's hard to compute the previous state. < 1591838998 560347 :LKoen!~LKoen___@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1591841183 505644 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wizards of the Coast has removed some card images from their database, banned those cards (even in Vintage, I think), and even changed the multiverse ID number of a single card. Let it be known that I oppose this kind of behaviour, regardless of the reason. (They say it is because those cards are racist. What they should do then is to stop making racist cards; they shouldn't erase the history of the cards.) < 1591841250 992542 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are valid reasons to ban some cards in some formats, but probably not in Vintage. < 1591841269 796 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :They can, of course, put those cards in the reserve list and never print them again; that is OK too, I suppose. < 1591841408 186347 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1591842006 70073 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, the change in the multiverse ID number makes even more of a mess; if they do reverse that decision, then that card will need to have two multiverse ID numbers for the same printing, and that is no good either. Removing the new multiverse ID number is also bad, because now that number is assigned for that card and someone might use the new multiverse ID number. < 1591842401 210111 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1591842574 895257 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This banning also has an unfortunate interaction with one of the silver bordered cards, and trying to deal with that (even if they undo their changes) would probably make even more of a mess than it already is. Well, I think.) < 1591842691 352852 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course, if they are banned in some formats due to game balance problems (or because the cards are rare and you are playing a format that forbids rare cards), then they should remain banned, but this should presumably not include Vintage, I think.) < 1591843121 746740 :Cale!~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, it seems fine to me for them to eliminate cards from the game if those cards no longer reflect their company's values in some way. < 1591843189 798874 :Cale!~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fact that Invoke Prejudice had a multiverse ID of 1488 is pretty suspicious. < 1591843372 504746 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1591843569 975308 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1591843634 548748 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric ::It is probably just a coincidence. But it doesn't matter. They shouldn't change the past. They can change the future instead, I think. If they no longer like those cards, then they should not longer print them. < 1591843755 817692 :Cale!~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure this counts as changing the past < 1591843774 831359 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't like the number 13, 666, 1488, 1984, or whatever, that is too bad, because in a list of consecutively numbered items (or pages, or cards) with that many or more items, those numbers will be used in their proper place. (I also don't like elevators omitting 13, of course.) < 1591843890 935846 :Cale!~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but when a racially-charged card whose image depicts pointy-hooded figures just happens to get a number by which a white supremacist slogan are identified, that's a hell of a coincidence. < 1591843936 194359 :Cale!~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see it as well within their rights to rearrange all the card IDs as much as they want < 1591843962 786018 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I suppose it is a hell of a coincidence. But I think that rearranging multiverse IDs (regardless of why) is problematic. < 1591843994 450904 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Among other things, it goes against the W3C's policy, I think. < 1591844029 158812 :Cale!~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it affects some URLs, but despite the W3C's wishes, URLs rarely stay the same for very long. < 1591844071 928642 :Cale!~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably best that no other card take the place of that one, just to avoid confusion < 1591844082 478373 :Cale!~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why they bothered assigning it a new ID actually < 1591844147 82230 :Cale!~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess because they get to post the message that it's banned from tournament play etc. that way < 1591844226 742910 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is best that no other card (or other printing of the same card in a different set, which fortunately there isn't any) takes that multiverse ID. < 1591844297 782898 :Cale!~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you look at, say, Hearthstone -- it hasn't had to deal with this particular problem, but cards are revised all the time in that game, and people's collections are forcibly updated along with it. < 1591844323 449416 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Hearthstone is quite a different problem entirely. < 1591844325 401999 :Cale!~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, they try not to do it too much, but it still seems a reasonable thing to do < 1591844344 952550 :Cale!~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit different because there aren't physical bits of cardboard in the world < 1591844352 168283 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1591844429 248019 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it can still be a problem, and a different one. You might want to use old rules, you might not like their software, etc. Actually, Magic: the Gathering also has the problem of old versions of the rules and Oracle texts not properly being archived, I think. < 1591844495 143582 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What ais523 did seems reasonable though: The primary key of a card definition is the name and version together, rather than only the name. That partially avoids the problem in Hearthstone, at least. < 1591844527 647322 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I did that? < 1591844540 87408 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, it is too late to change it now in either Magic: the Gathering or in Hearthstone, I think. < 1591844550 851427 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :name+version is the normal primary key in M:tG databases, though (except for Oracle-alikes) < 1591844603 985490 :Cale!~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I see it, there's no responsibility for the maker of a game to continue to support any part of it, or maintain historical information for themselves if they want to make changes. Obviously, people who are interested in the history of the game can maintain that information. < 1591844605 908680 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You did; I have the document you wrote on my computer. < 1591844632 425991 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: Yes, I maintain history of the rules as far back as possible. Rule history and Oracle history are very important for puzzles. < 1591844648 84523 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh, you mean not for M:tG < 1591844673 166798 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a bit different because version numbers are part of the card, the intention was that reprinting a card would use the same version number, but a different number could be used for, e.g., balance fixes < 1591844701 437874 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: are there any puzzles that require using multiple different sets of rules over the course of the puzzle? < 1591844726 511324 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may be right about other M:tG databases, but I don't really know. I think the artwork should remain archived, even if they would never be reprinted. < 1591844786 540869 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't know of any such puzzles, and most puzzles I know of don't specify a rules datestamp at all (except my own, to avoid this kind of problem). < 1591844842 969813 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What you say about version numbers, I know what you are saying, and it makes sense, but I meant as an alternative to what is probably being done in Hearthstone (at least, what I have heard; I think my brother plays), and not about Magic: the Gathering. < 1591845007 316465 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm generally in favour of old versions / rules engines / patches of computer games being available in case they're superior to the current version (or more interesting in some other way), or just for historical interest < 1591845030 198770 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is one of the reasons I dislike "inherently online" games because they often have no way to play an old version < 1591845039 937650 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I agree with that. < 1591845061 974317 :Cale!~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, all else being equal, that's preferable < 1591845297 896407 :Cale!~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chess 1.2 Patch Notes: * Fixed a bug introduced with faster pawns in 1.1 where pawns would sometimes capture a piece on different square from the one where they were going. * Fixed a bug where castling sometimes wouldn't work when unrelated back-rank squares were under attack. * We're aware of the bugs where pawns can't capture the piece that's in front of them, and can't move diagonally in cases where they're not < 1591845298 40039 :Cale!~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :capturing a piece, and are working on fixes - stay tuned in the next patch. < 1591845369 630037 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There are other reasons to dislike "inherently online" games too; the reason you specify is only one of the reasons.) < 1591845839 812107 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone still maintain the old Oracle texts and artwork? Does anyone maintain even changes to multiverse ID numbers if needed? What about rule changes? I think Yawgatog used to do some of these, but no longer does. I have a directory on my computer of all versions of the rules since 2007-05-01, but I am interested in older rules too, because there are puzzles older than that. < 1591846322 272850 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I reconstructed an old puzzle from the solution, but it doesn't work with modern rules. > 1591849377 574653 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DIVCON14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73555&oldid=73548 5* 03A 5* (+491) 10 > 1591849400 671237 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DIVCON14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73556&oldid=73555 5* 03A 5* (+91) 10 > 1591849608 628254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DIVCON14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73557&oldid=73556 5* 03A 5* (+114) 10 < 1591850156 986365 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1591850348 211731 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1591851426 338069 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1591853789 7386 :APic!apic@apic.name QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1591853910 355055 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gbeubasxzxfppiwt QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1591853926 776624 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ritwjcqyonktquns JOIN :#esoteric < 1591853939 134611 :APic!apic@apic.name JOIN :#esoteric < 1591854538 481749 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:b07c:8864:cd5f:96ad JOIN :#esoteric < 1591854710 834420 :xelxebar_!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1591854781 684114 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1591854805 370560 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:b07c:8864:cd5f:96ad QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1591855655 735254 :xelxebar_!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1591855706 806984 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1591856379 778449 :LKoen!~LKoen___@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1591857922 536811 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-94-38.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1591858352 287890 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1591859274 390230 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1591859584 218162 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1591860485 858852 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1591860560 275927 :LKoen!~LKoen___@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1591861362 453730 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1591861390 418397 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1591862068 863919 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jbdpgyiargtzgmxw JOIN :#esoteric > 1591862775 606409 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Categorization14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73558&oldid=73525 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (-6) 10"natural language" is common and accepted terminology > 1591862952 344638 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Category:Pseudonatural14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73559&oldid=68129 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (-6) 10Rewrite for clarity > 1591863229 206651 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Category:Pseudonatural14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73560&oldid=73559 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+124) 10More clarify contents of category as they currently are < 1591863389 464048 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1591863576 343173 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1591863637 968825 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.51 JOIN :#esoteric > 1591863719 362729 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SMETANA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73561&oldid=65621 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+27) 10+cat > 1591865783 815864 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Unary Filesystem14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=73562 5* 03D 5* (+265) 10Created page with "== An example program please? == This language indeed made me laugh. But I could never understand anything without examples, care to program an example of Hello World, for exa..." > 1591866275 898679 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DIVCON14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73563&oldid=73557 5* 03D 5* (+768) 10 < 1591867085 621134 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-94-38.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds > 1591867175 546769 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Burro14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73564&oldid=34908 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+694) 10Continue a conversation from 8 years ago, why not < 1591867180 412874 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:6070:5c38:f6f0:fe13 JOIN :#esoteric > 1591867410 601033 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Unary Filesystem14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73565&oldid=71743 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+4) 10+link < 1591867483 919540 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.205.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1591867562 216722 :opticnerve!~opticnerv@151.40.10.113 JOIN :#esoteric > 1591868034 129543 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Unary Filesystem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73566&oldid=73562 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+371) 10 < 1591868485 395723 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:6070:5c38:f6f0:fe13 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds > 1591868635 467941 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Forked14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73567&oldid=73506 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+12) 10/* Examples (golfy) */ +links > 1591868664 287729 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Reverse cat14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=73568 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+25) 10Create redirect > 1591868945 626944 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FrancePROG14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73569&oldid=73530 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+27) 10+cat < 1591869052 462668 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:8497:aaae:e8f0:f347 JOIN :#esoteric < 1591869172 154103 :opticnerve!~opticnerv@151.40.10.113 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds > 1591869295 414789 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Onoz14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73570&oldid=38061 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+4) 10+link, make capitalization consistent > 1591869625 585034 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Cat program14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73571&oldid=38761 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+183) 10Add pro tip. < 1591871652 620613 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose R0, R1, R2... Rn are rewrite rules (each one has the form Pn -> Sn where Pn is the pattern and Sn is the substitution). Now suppose Rn + Rm means: if Pn matches you apply Rn, if Pm matches you apply Rm. And suppose Rn * Rm means: if both Pn and Pm match you apply both Rn and Rm. < 1591871921 473200 :tromp_!~tromp@ip-213-127-94-38.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1591871959 51445 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are obviously overlaps there that you'd want to deal with, i.e. in both + and *, what if both Pn and Pm match? < 1591872018 788220 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, assuming you took care of that, it seems like it would be a nice system to work with. < 1591872171 540099 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:8497:aaae:e8f0:f347 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1591872471 742268 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: You know something about rewriting, have you ever seen something like that, does it have a name? < 1591873124 929664 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously, | and & might be more evocative symbols for those operators, than + and * < 1591873503 190647 :LKoen!~LKoen___@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1591873761 751547 :LKoen!~LKoen___@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Client Quit < 1591873869 968687 :LKoen!~LKoen___@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1591874039 971837 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1591874223 418689 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1591874231 20588 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1591876445 94546 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jbdpgyiargtzgmxw QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1591876637 699294 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.51 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 > 1591877875 338023 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03JensBouman 5* 10New user account > 1591878296 199536 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73572&oldid=73551 5* 03JensBouman 5* (+191) 10/* Introductions */ > 1591878576 812960 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Piet14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73573&oldid=50453 5* 03JensBouman 5* (+139) 10/* External resources */ < 1591878787 18308 :^[_!sid43445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nslxbpnpggsvxfky QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1591878819 28516 :^[_!sid43445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pevtobkvlxhxodcp JOIN :#esoteric > 1591879406 948688 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Unary Filesystem14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73574&oldid=73565 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+74) 10/* Command language */ > 1591879429 113376 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Unary Filesystem14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73575&oldid=73574 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+25) 10/* OS */ > 1591879555 219305 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Unary Filesystem14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73576&oldid=73566 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+510) 10/* How are folders stored on disk? */ > 1591879667 291919 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Laundry shop14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73577&oldid=61305 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-4) 10replace with ''italic'' > 1591880119 159480 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Template:N14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=73578 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+129) 10Created page with "N For when you don't want any content, but some has to be there." > 1591880142 210699 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Unary Filesystem14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73579&oldid=73575 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+6880) 10/* Code golfing potential */ add an example > 1591880153 363232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Unary Filesystem14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73580&oldid=73579 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+2) 10/* Hello World */ terminology > 1591880218 142302 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tplntivhtpaavwtpi14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73581&oldid=68502 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+108) 10cats < 1591880306 438582 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric > 1591880335 30198 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Reverse cat14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73582&oldid=73568 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+12) 10Changed redirect target from [[Cat program]] to [[Cat program#Reverse cat]] < 1591880474 940743 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.51 JOIN :#esoteric > 1591880626 391411 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Rewriting Language14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73583&oldid=73469 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+102) 10 > 1591880963 701596 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deque14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73584&oldid=45298 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-5) 10no longer a stub > 1591881097 163826 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Manycats14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73585&oldid=73553 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+559) 10/* Instructions */ > 1591881108 677965 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Manycats14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73586&oldid=73585 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-30) 10/* Hello World (probably) */ < 1591882074 96129 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Sounds a bit odd, mainly because we're usually operating on trees so a global conjunction usually isn't very meaningful. There are various forms of conditional rewriting which can potentially test applicability of rules wrt. the redex at hand... < 1591882099 223683 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: the disjunction of course is the default mode of operations--pick any applicable rule and apply it. > 1591882128 171033 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Manycats14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73587&oldid=73586 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+817) 10/* Instructions */ > 1591882164 76048 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Manycats14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73588&oldid=73587 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+35) 10/* Categories */ < 1591882344 930350 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1591882465 941503 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.205.111 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds > 1591882523 361436 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07(14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73589&oldid=72571 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+18) 10/* Turing-completeness */ $ is a FSM < 1591882626 475798 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Thanks. It intrigues me. I may play with it a bit, see how oddly it turns out. < 1591882754 611762 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another thing that I've seen is a maximal multistep, in which one picks a maximal set of non-overlapping redexes in a term, and contracts them simultaneously. < 1591882800 111707 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's a kind of conjunction. But people usually do this with orthogonal systems (which make the maximal multistep unique...) > 1591883106 773 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Cubically14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73590&oldid=70747 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+94) 10cats > 1591883120 316625 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Manycats14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73591&oldid=73588 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+65) 10 > 1591883499 943974 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FarTooGeneral14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73592&oldid=71371 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+12) 10/* FarTooGeneral */ > 1591883872 459979 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Manycats14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73593&oldid=73591 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+71) 10/* Instructions */ > 1591884538 109365 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Manycats14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73594&oldid=73593 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-10) 10/* Instructions */ > 1591884612 689856 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Manycats14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73595&oldid=73594 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+98) 10/* Hello World */ > 1591885233 653564 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Manycats14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73596&oldid=73595 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+219) 10/* Instructions */ < 1591886513 482330 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1591886624 512075 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Network Headache14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73597&oldid=53696 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+7) 10/* Operators */ > 1591886707 328130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Help, WarDoq!14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73598&oldid=53188 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+23) 10/* Implementation */ cat > 1591887202 169870 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Manycats14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73599&oldid=73596 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10pipe trick > 1591887282 826853 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Manycats14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73600&oldid=73599 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10 > 1591887877 76493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MiniPig14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73601&oldid=57110 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+14) 10/* Computational Class */ > 1591887996 343476 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Zfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73602&oldid=73379 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+12) 10/* Simple translation to and from Smallfuck */ < 1591888727 519733 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1591889760 929891 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1591889766 555223 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric > 1591889864 381625 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Compute14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73603&oldid=57880 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+51) 10/* Official Python Implementation */ cats > 1591889882 801787 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Compute14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73604&oldid=73603 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+31) 10/* See also */ > 1591889918 900615 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Compute/IO14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73605&oldid=35593 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+53) 10/* Interpreters */ < 1591891070 584297 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.71.51 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1591891146 640311 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble QUIT :Quit: they'll keep us apart and they won't stop breaking us down < 1591891464 493743 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble JOIN :#esoteric < 1591891540 727057 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"NaN.aN" is a nice number. > 1591891590 919350 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07King Ethan14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73606&oldid=55205 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+184) 10 > 1591891720 168985 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Flower14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73607&oldid=44915 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+98) 10Cats > 1591891768 28659 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Algebra14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73608&oldid=44911 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+69) 10catS < 1591892050 18338 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-72.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yawgatog still has the old rules diffs, they go back a few years before 2007, but for rules older than that, I've no idea. < 1591892209 299834 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-72.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: did Scryfall have these large downloadable files https://scryfall.com/docs/api/bulk-data the last time we looked, or did it only have the more interactive API? < 1591892566 868581 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-72.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Wizards of the Coast has removed some card images from their database, banned those cards (even in Vintage, I think), and even changed the multiverse ID number of a single card. ... They say it is because those cards are racist." wait what? do you have a link? < 1591892653 640908 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I do, and I think that it is a misapplication of anti-racism. https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/depictions-racism-magic-2020-06-10 < 1591892734 931402 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Misapplication of anti-racism and anti-[other bad stuff too] seems to be too common.) < 1591892852 264675 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-72.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :including Crusade? < 1591892889 730024 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-72.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's rather ridiculous < 1591892941 190765 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-72.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so those are more racist than Eyeblight's Ending? < 1591893093 228196 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-72.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice, they ban Cleanse, but not Virtue's Ruin because nobody cares about Portal < 1591893539 174133 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1591893579 743272 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :People have made these same complaints, although my own complaints are different. They should not ban those cards in Vintage, and otherwise the cards should be banned only due to the game balance purposes (or because some of the cards are rare and they are playing Pauper format, which forbids rare cards). And they should never change Multiverse ID numbers. < 1591893592 614616 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The damage has been done, but trying to undo those changes might make it worse. < 1591893712 391030 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Removing the card images is probably the least bad thing, since the Oracle text and rulings are still there and you can probably find the pictures elsewhere anyways.) < 1591893767 111365 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-72.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the artwork should remain archived" => Gatherer is missing so many card versions that it hardly matters if they lose the images of a few more, it's just that announcing this selection of cards as banned was probably a bad decision for htem < 1591893833 51944 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-72.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for Multiverse ids, I don't really trust those as being constant. haven't the ids changed when they replaced Gatherer with New Gatherer, and before that when they introduced Gatherer? hmm, I'll have to look up one of my old Oracle dumps < 1591893839 191793 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is true; Gatherer is missing so many card versions, which of course is a different problem, but others archive them anyways. < 1591893880 560708 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, although I seem to remember changing some links to the old card database with a new link, and the old ID numbers continuing to work. < 1591893974 566878 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-72.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm no, the multiverse ids were in the old Gatherer pages too < 1591893980 517423 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-72.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they probably haven't changed < 1591894014 202384 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-72.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"others archive them anyways." => no, there's only one group that archives them, it's Scryfall, and it's quite possible that even they missed something < 1591894033 765553 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-72.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and/or that they will just give up and won't be able to continue the work from their income < 1591894049 562053 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, OK, but if they did miss something, I should think that you should notify them of anything that they have missed. < 1591894071 364984 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-72.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: if they did miss something, it'd be an obscure card I've never heard about < 1591894186 499499 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, OK. < 1591894221 364136 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-72.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did notify them about interface problems, as opposed to missing cards < 1591894291 514234 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-72.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are connected with multiple large card market websites, so any card that's on sale somewhere will be in their database (possibly after some processing delay) < 1591894302 438879 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-72.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :on sale as a single that is < 1591894317 949596 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-72.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can't guess what's in booster packs sold unclosed < 1591894337 118841 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-72.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a card version has to be really obscure to not exist on sale > 1591894890 608675 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hurgusburgus14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73609&oldid=60457 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-7) 10unpipe > 1591894957 906493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hurgusburgus14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73610&oldid=73609 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+40) 10/* An example: a truth machine */ link+cat > 1591895122 309371 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Paintfuck++14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73611&oldid=69758 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+116) 10cats > 1591895189 810339 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07First.go14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73612&oldid=70786 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+48) 10/* External resources */ cats > 1591895493 469092 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Backshift14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73613&oldid=68221 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+20) 10 < 1591895843 27288 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.34 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1591897097 492059 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also thought to make up a puzzle with these seven cards. What I thought of is: Invoke Prejudice on the battlefield under your opponent's control, Cleanse and Jihad (and maybe also Imprison) in your hand, and the rest in the battlefield under your control. However, I like ideas such as "Any Card Will Do" (p 10-11 of the Magic: the Puzzling book by Rosewater). > 1591898251 140093 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NeverGonna14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73614&oldid=72362 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+8) 10/* Syntax */ shouldnt it be "orange"? > 1591898985 428592 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Template:Infobox proglang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73615&oldid=73364 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+29) 10 > 1591899184 52858 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Trite14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73616&oldid=70506 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+127) 10cats > 1591899256 438089 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0714]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73617&oldid=65086 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+6) 10 > 1591899323 161380 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Category:ICFP contest14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73618&oldid=39184 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+5) 10 > 1591899331 908620 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07\BV14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73619&oldid=39182 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+23) 10cat < 1591900418 993752 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1591901080 487649 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1591901956 200107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Piet14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73620&oldid=73573 5* 03NotVeryGoodAtThis 5* (+6504) 10Added a lot of stuff > 1591902024 322598 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Piet14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73621&oldid=34739 5* 03NotVeryGoodAtThis 5* (+210) 10 > 1591902048 474715 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Piet14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73622&oldid=73621 5* 03NotVeryGoodAtThis 5* (+0) 10 > 1591902061 960549 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Piet14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73623&oldid=73622 5* 03NotVeryGoodAtThis 5* (+2) 10 > 1591903943 605888 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07CA-114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73624&oldid=44118 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+71) 10/* Turing completeness */ catS > 1591904136 365869 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Scotty14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73625&oldid=46807 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+50) 10/* Interpreter */ cats > 1591904180 598409 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Generic 2D Befunge14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73626&oldid=68874 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-217) 10/* Examples */ rm redcat & sigs < 1591904744 147864 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I got rid of the « and » character. < 1591904747 872863 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like this? < 1591904896 638344 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got rod if it in what? < 1591905858 394924 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:1c4:2016:ce14:445b JOIN :#esoteric < 1591905989 942529 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( zzo38: I got rid of the and character. ) < 1591906055 128658 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: The file I linked before. < 1591906061 887276 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://slbkbs.org/tmp/mop/mop.h < 1591906084 199480 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is GNU-style options-after-arguments behavior a good idea? < 1591906230 397390 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really like the GNU-style options-after-arguments. < 1591906465 540363 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-72.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't like gnu style options after options, but we can't get rid of it now < 1591906488 896447 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Options after options? < 1591906511 806246 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-72.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to assume that any program may or may not accept options after arguments, depending on what libc you compile it with, and be careful with arguments that start with a hyphen accordingly < 1591906518 410823 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-72.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :options after non-option arguments, sorry < 1591906738 842111 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that in some programs it is useful to specify options after another argument that takes its own options, such as if it an interpreter, then presumably the options for the interpreter should come before the filename, and options for the program being interpreted come after the filename. < 1591906860 26932 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some programs use some other way to specify, such as in Ghostscript, if you write -- before the filename of the PostScript program, then options before -- are the options for Ghostscript (such as safe/unsafe mode, or the output device selection), and the options after the filename are the arguments to the PostScript program. < 1591906960 726395 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another example (currently not implemented in any implementation I know of, though) is NES/Famicom emulation. The options for the interpreter itself come before the first cartridge filename; after that are the mapper arguments if any (most mappers do not use any arguments), and if a mapper argument is another cartridge, that one can in turn take its own mapper arguments, etc. < 1591908546 869983 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric > 1591908697 375843 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07International Phonetic Esoteric Language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73627&oldid=73554 5* 03Bigyihsuan 5* (+1723) 10loops > 1591909466 686886 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Manycats14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73628&oldid=73600 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-125) 10/* Instruction order */ rm outdated section > 1591909519 992403 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Manycats14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73629&oldid=73628 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+21) 10/* Instructions */ < 1591909544 726610 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Quit: brb < 1591910151 470495 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric > 1591910410 914875 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rev14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73630&oldid=53027 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+87) 10cats > 1591910420 361025 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rev14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73631&oldid=73630 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+12) 10 < 1591911637 603029 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1591912647 875785 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the Plan 9 bitmap format? Apparently Ghostscript can write out this format. It seems to be like Netpbm format 4, but with a different header: gp_fprintf(pstream, "%11d %11d %11d %11d %11d ", 0, 0, 0, pdev->width, pdev->height) < 1591914072 325869 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1591914746 854674 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1591915244 808679 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1591915783 471318 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:1c4:2016:ce14:445b QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1591916061 136804 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1591916784 897856 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Piet14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73632&oldid=73620 5* 03NotVeryGoodAtThis 5* (+1) 10fixed a typo > 1591916806 214507 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Piet14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73633&oldid=73632 5* 03NotVeryGoodAtThis 5* (+0) 10fixed a typo > 1591916843 768585 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Piet14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73634&oldid=73633 5* 03NotVeryGoodAtThis 5* (-1) 10fixed a typo < 1591916970 964234 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu > 1591916998 906108 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Piet14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73635&oldid=73634 5* 03NotVeryGoodAtThis 5* (+14) 10clarified roll / fixed inconsistencies < 1591917094 994203 :LKoen!~LKoen___@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1591917266 961712 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1591917486 212718 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1591917486 356048 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1591918177 860384 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1591918606 984489 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.34 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds