Instructions must be separated by spaces, an instruction consists of a val..." > 1592588566 15030 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:GORBITSA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74047&oldid=74046 5* 03X39 5* (+42) 10 < 1592588566 961727 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I phrased that sufficiently differently so I wouldn’t think this form all by myself < 1592588577 167501 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no you gen thanks after all < 1592588580 736467 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :get* > 1592588645 165852 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GORBITSA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74048&oldid=74044 5* 03X39 5* (-48) 10/* Specification */ Fixed mistakes < 1592588785 599903 :xylochoron[m]!xylochoron@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-qhcarlsqwaltjvcf JOIN :#esoteric < 1592588785 717546 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-jmhwavtpwlgnzlgw JOIN :#esoteric < 1592588829 16496 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay I think handcrafted top-down parsers aren’t yet too bad a taste, especially for a grammar like Tandem has < 1592588864 781164 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also top-down parsing does seem like the thing most comfortable to do by hand < 1592588956 939344 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Recursive descent" is the usual word, and they're pretty common to handcraft. < 1592588961 471294 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go's parser is one of those. < 1592588967 349576 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :would someone like to proofread / help me making an interpreter for this: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esofun < 1592588980 512690 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ultimately I plan on creating _the ultimate_ golfing language < 1592588997 292689 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also do you know Pratt parsers? I implemented a toy with them once but I think they aren’t much better in error reporting (and other UX things for a parser framework’s client) than other approaches so I ended up leaving them where they were < 1592589007 874163 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: pfft < 1592589043 552309 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what :p < 1592589047 401640 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: but that description is still too long < 1592589051 960050 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ultimate " < 1592589065 175682 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, *almost* anything < 1592589068 302679 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ultimate antepenultimatum < 1592589082 285606 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be ultimate due to it's design goals < 1592589083 996657 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :just look at them < 1592589110 660644 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like partial orders for the reason there may be more than one maximal elements :D < 1592589142 845636 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: I'll read it when I've found the ultimate natural number. < 1592589194 804872 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( naming of art periods is silly, but I think we have not yet had an ultimate one. ) < 1592589209 848626 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not too keen on stack-based golfing languages, they're great for linear programs in the linear-logic sense (i.e. programs where each input and intermediate value is used exactly once) but it's common to want to use values multiple times < 1592589230 690667 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stack-based languages often have to waste a considerable portion of their command-space expressing how that happens < 1592589248 881362 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: the historical periods too, though maybe they aren’t that bad in English and other languages, I didn’t look at these < 1592589276 748284 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: that's related, but art periods are more finely grained < 1592589287 561572 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the silliness becomes more obvious < 1592589344 284342 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also think that in golfing languages, it's normally a mistake for there to be any distinction between a string and a list of characters, or between a character and its codepoint (the only time when it isn't is if you have overloaded operators) < 1592589398 75450 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't think so - stack based approach opens opportunities for tacit and concentative programming < 1592589409 642852 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so far it's been proven that these paradigms shine when it comes to code golf < 1592589412 770595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tacit languages normally don't have a stack < 1592589424 725549 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric : so the silliness becomes more obvious => also in different art forms they use the same word for different periods, AFAIR < 1592589431 718156 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stacks aren't incompatible with the idea of tacit programming, but also aren't required < 1592589460 557472 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :forth is a tacit and concentative programming language < 1592589466 577209 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is J, APL, K and so forth < 1592589486 810029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :forth isn't tacit in a way that saves bytes, though < 1592589521 875376 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I plan on adding absurd amount of builtins < 1592589527 962420 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :triggered by various adverbs < 1592589541 251147 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this makes me think that well, that's a lot of room for optimizations < 1592589541 807629 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm actually going the other way with my golfing languages < 1592589552 975745 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to reduce the number of builtins so that they can have shorter names < 1592589565 76337 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's not good for golfing, because you'll get outgolfed by Mathematica < 1592589568 641216 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but making each of them crazily context-sensitive to increase how powerful it is < 1592589583 272460 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's exactly like the adverb system works in my language. < 1592589601 613814 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not that rare for a full program that does something in, say, Jelly to be shorter than the name of the builtin in Mathematica < 1592589668 774135 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, Mathematica surely takes the eloquent path to naming < 1592589670 553127 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh, Jelly < 1592589681 26025 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, one major category of builtins that doesn't seem to be mentioned is builtins with block arguments < 1592589683 977095 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if mathematica has names like Jelly builtins, and had them triggered by adverbs < 1592589687 21321 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then well < 1592589717 623608 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most mathematica builtins take lots of parameters though, and need them to avoid being too inflexible < 1592589744 617997 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :256 adverbs, 256 instructions = 65536 possible builtins to squish into the language < 1592589750 138231 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there golf languages utilizing Hindley—Milner typing? Though I think I asked that and someone answered already < 1592589757 597680 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you have accessible using two keystrokes < 1592589765 664996 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sometimes, in 70% of times, using a single keystroke < 1592589788 187078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I answered https://esolangs.org/wiki/Husk to a similar question < 1592589802 343714 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: but how would one program in it^W^W^W^W^W^W^W < 1592589824 364279 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah! thanks I think it was you that time even < 1592589831 25200 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: counting to 7 is too much to ask < 1592589831 359225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: you can't have 256 of each and have them both accessible in a single byte < 1592589843 567156 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you insist on having exactly one adverb on every instruction < 1592589850 469715 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: but I think you deleted everything except the kspalaiologos: part < 1592589915 466153 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: that’s intentional, yeah. Hm or I got lost in the semantics < 1592589921 117735 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: adverbs are toggle/set < 1592589929 710572 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can have the adverb already set, so you don't have to type it again < 1592589941 31889 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: that's the only real problem < 1592589942 923215 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: how do you distinguish between an adverb and an instruction? < 1592589947 124180 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :programming will be hard as heck < 1592589948 346921 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't have 256 of each < 1592589956 745353 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a bit to say which is which < 1592589962 994468 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, you're getting it wrong < 1592589969 151594 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's use pseudocode < 1592589983 228947 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"toggle adverb B; do operation; do operation;" < 1592589993 540712 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :1st and 2nd operation will work with the adverb < 1592589996 91933 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b toggled < 1592590002 171743 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: you have 256 "toggle adverb" bytes and 256 "do operation" bytes < 1592590008 826873 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's more than 256 possibilities for each byte < 1592590030 322799 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, in literal code, tB.. < 1592590043 737305 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :instruction t toggles an adverb < 1592590054 135810 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the total number of adverbs + the total number of instructions needs to equal 256, if you want an 8-bit character set < 1592590077 374411 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid that you can't parse this language without ambiguities < 1592590088 105589 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow, now /that's/ an interesting answer < 1592590104 468006 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're looking at this problem like, if B is an adverb I set with tB, B is not usable as an instructio < 1592590107 651023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can make that work, the language got a lot more interesting < 1592590111 155688 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is false, because you can < 1592590136 740844 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are also tons upon tons of type corrections and most operations introduce automatic reduce < 1592590142 577418 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the main datatype is a stack of lists < 1592590143 133306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is "toggle adverb" an instruction? < 1592590162 132075 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's `t' < 1592590171 965875 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :inb4: you can have t as an adverb < 1592590202 697559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1592590204 975021 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :current adverb list is in pont 5, any other adverb can be flipped, but it makes no sense, because it doesn't change anything < 1592590213 432224 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so instead of 1 byte to toggle and 1 byte per instruction < 1592590222 605600 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need, in effect, 2 bytes to operate a toggle < 1592590228 633085 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1592590229 305938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the instructions are 1 byte each when not toggled < 1592590234 97371 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1592590244 666908 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also plan on somehow optimizing the toggles for size < 1592590252 856176 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this can be a sensible way to design a language < 1592590261 297456 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's possible that your numbers are off < 1592590270 278025 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I plan on adding the instruction that will unpack a character to bits < 1592590277 556572 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :256 sets seems like it's maybe too much < 1592590279 956516 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then set the adverbs in given range with this < 1592590293 341098 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I'm allowing to set for example adverb state to a list < 1592590304 127573 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can compress your adverbs and then unpack them in runtime, and pop it to the adverb list < 1592590305 525067 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, 2²⁵⁶ sets is definitely too much < 1592590314 892911 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though there will be a lot of overlap < 1592590317 214792 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there will be an instruction for compression/decompression < 1592590343 332314 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also plan on implementing logical date operations < 1592590353 45461 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike literally any other non-eso language out there < 1592590356 622325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe just have 8 bits of adverbs, for a total of 256 instruction sets, and have the toggle instruction unpack a literal byte? < 1592590368 991641 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one way to do it < 1592590374 555891 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll consider it < 1592590433 678808 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, and you can also bend the type correction rules < 1592590458 799056 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I plan on adding a builtin to override all the existing instructions via the link mechanism < 1592590478 62750 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you can create a link bound to either an instruction or an ID, that will execute and then pass the control to another link < 1592590480 972728 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the same name < 1592590503 439665 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could e.g. override 0 with f0RN < 1592590513 972599 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this has no effect, but you could theoretically put something useful there < 1592590540 879243 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also declare identifier links, not bound to an instruction, rather, an identifier < 1592590545 807284 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you can call using '. syntax < 1592590561 903827 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it this is designed to be a golfing language for writing large programs, then? < 1592590575 422333 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm now I thought “simple complex” and suddenly there is an idea of writing programs as cell complexes < 1592590591 118775 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1592590599 123084 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because writing simple programs in it makes no sense < 1592590603 566343 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for large scale code golf, it's perfect < 1592590612 455862 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and very competetive, because most of the times you can golf the hell out of the code < 1592590807 130811 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine, you have to for example golf a SKI calculus evaluator < 1592590833 976788 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be quite easy with functional languages and all that fluff, but stuff like osable or jelly don't seem like they have a simply and small way of solving this problem < 1592590847 203556 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :while in this language, there's a high chance you'd get it done in well under 50 characters < 1592590868 366261 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :better, directed ones. Starting with 2-cells, one has a big selection of polygons to choose from, 3-cells may vary in form further, but maybe even with 2-complexes which consist of 0-, 1- and 2-cells, one can encode something in a good way. There can be edges (1-cells) which are attached only by one of their vertices, any number of this kind of edge sticking from any vertex. Maybe one could use boundary and coboundary operators to define actions… And < 1592590868 477324 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric : maybe the state of a program can be made a form on the complex, or a collection of forms of all degrees (here, 0-, 1- and 2-, each on cells of a corresponding order). Hmm < 1592590871 359805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems like an interesting challenge, actually < 1592590959 842143 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: kspalaiologos: is there a way algebraic types could work in a golflang? < 1592591015 449799 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a bit hairy when I think about it, but I guess it's doable < 1592591022 874670 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by algebraic types? sum types and product types? < 1592591036 781680 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally golflangs are untyped, so you just use heterogenous lists for everything < 1592591037 671288 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tagged sum types < 1592591047 26365 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with products in each alternative < 1592591048 561582 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. instead of a(1,2) you use ['a',1,2] < 1592591073 39965 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it can be tagged sums + products not packed together < 1592591082 549717 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well, you use whatever representation gives you the shortest code, but golflangs are normally good at operating on lists even if they have distinguished elements < 1592591116 814402 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’d say heterogeneous lists would suffice if there’s something like pattern matching < 1592591177 574872 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I don’t think one can do something feasible without constructing case tables < 1592591185 539925 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they would take up space < 1592591199 988591 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking about how I'd write this program < 1592591207 660424 :kspalaiologos!~root@206.ip-51-91-102.eu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1592591220 993591 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my current plan is to use executable code as the tags < 1592591235 604312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just eval it to do the equivalent of the case table < 1592591246 608845 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works best if you have only one table, of course < 1592591308 829352 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm how frequently is there an instruction which takes [f, args…] to f(args…)? < 1592591330 125138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Jelly it's a two-byter < 1592591353 256882 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a third when it's part of a larger program, to disambiguate what applies to what < 1592591380 158860 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though one table constraint is not good for big tasks < 1592591386 601088 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be vḤ, I think < 1592591397 71860 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, other way round, Ḥv < 1592591460 826372 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, Ḣv < 1592591469 22463 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like this: https://tio.run/##y0rNyan8///hjkVl////j1YPVtcx1DHSMY4FAA < 1592592998 679239 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could simply use numeric tags, and index into a list of code fragments < 1592593216 175906 :LKoen!~LKoen___@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric > 1592593730 599972 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GORBITSA14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74049&oldid=74048 5* 03Megarev 5* (+162) 10/* Programs */ > 1592593747 566725 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GORBITSA14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74050&oldid=74049 5* 03Megarev 5* (+8) 10/* Cool Stairs (By Megarev) */ < 1592594109 697450 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rhnglfxszegnegxe QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1592595274 453928 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was working on my own golf programming language involving the PC character set < 1592595471 583083 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its data types are: number (a rational number with an optional French suit), list (can contain data of multiple types), function, dictionary (key/value pairs with no duplicate keys), mark (there is only one kind of mark; this is similar to the mark in PostScript). < 1592597234 494096 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SKI combinator calculus in 40 bytes of Jelly, and I haven't really tried to properly golf it yet: https://tio.run/##y0rNyan8//9Rw5zDO47uebiz5XDLsU3JCUD@o6Y1D3fMBzIOLX7UMPPhzmYgs@zhju0Pd@57uHOWjrX@o4a5QPahJVz@D3d3H1p0aOvh@UA9ZfqHtvo83N11aKv9////o6Oj1YvVddQz1WMhBDI/Wz02FgA < 1592597272 439286 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or to write the program itself, “øżṄÄƲc`“€ḟ“£’ṃ“vḷṾṚ,;/”Ṿ¤¶Oị¢µß€v/µLỊµ? < 1592597389 85182 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :evaluation is eager, function before argument; it goes into an infinite loop (sadly not tail-recursive) if the SKI term doesn't normalize, or prints out some Jelly code that implements the function in question if it does normalize < 1592597495 926859 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, this also shows why writing golfing languages designed for large programs is kind-of pointless: you could instead write a small decompressor and use eval, as is done here > 1592597602 128141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Beautiful day14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74051 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+2098) 10+[[Beautiful day]] > 1592597605 631004 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74052&oldid=73985 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+20) 10+[[Beautiful day]] > 1592597610 521746 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Hakerh40014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74053&oldid=73775 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+20) 10+[[Beautiful day]] < 1592597674 477983 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 MODE #esoteric -o :ais523 < 1592597678 122285 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :services should be working again now < 1592597777 579777 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, that's a lot of scrollback I should read later. is there something that should really concern me? < 1592597811 123574 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean from today? or from the earlier logs that have now been fixed? < 1592597819 822931 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just been basic, on-topic conversation, there's just been a lot of it < 1592597826 574623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from today, at least < 1592597826 798291 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :from today, after I entered < 1592597846 847697 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there wasn't much from before that, I looked at the one logs server that was still available < 1592597874 154443 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :only even though I was joined, I was looking at other more urgent stuff < 1592598120 374966 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly Jelly's escaping syntax blows up exponentially, so my SKI interpreter in Jelly isn't going to work on nontrivial programs < 1592598420 416140 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1592598757 774262 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking at tio.run, I'm curious as to how the BitBitJump interpreter is supposed to work > 1592598778 203769 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GORBITSA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74054&oldid=74050 5* 03ZippyMagician 5* (+1113) 10Add tic-tac-toe example < 1592598861 299204 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaah, someone has created a standardized assembly notation for BitBitJump, that explains it > 1592599334 261466 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Beautiful day14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74055&oldid=74051 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+72) 10/* Interpreters */ cats > 1592599479 830099 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03TrolledWoods 5* 10New user account > 1592599602 394563 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74056&oldid=74037 5* 03TrolledWoods 5* (+95) 10/* Introductions */ > 1592599797 686554 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GORBITSA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74057&oldid=74054 5* 03TrolledWoods 5* (+361) 10/* Programs */ < 1592599845 300372 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"trying to reduce the number of builtins so that they can have shorter names" => does that really help? you can have lots of builtins but huffmanize them so that common ones are encoded to short names. you don't lose a lot by adding extra builtins with long names in a golf language. > 1592599879 225577 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GORBITSA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74058&oldid=74057 5* 03TrolledWoods 5* (+1) 10/* Saurons eye (By TrolledWoods) */ < 1592600297 13905 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: but not many people actually do golfing on large programs (... says the guy who submitted a 202 byte program for a simple golf challenge) < 1592600596 762155 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :" sadly Jelly's escaping syntax blows up exponentially" => that's sad. it's a pity that K&R didn't define a short escape syntax for a backslash in a string literal other than "\\", so now you can only use "\x5C" because nobody managed to standardize a short escape syntax later, by fear that nobody else would speak it < 1592600624 451663 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it might be too late because backslash followed by anything means something in some languages < 1592600645 738922 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can still define an escape syntax for your language, but not for anything that will spread and be uniform everywhere < 1592600669 729223 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, technically "\x5C" or "\??/" < 1592600827 49200 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "\134" I guess, but "\x5C seems the best option < 1592600837 273377 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's what I usually use < 1592602180 405467 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds > 1592602764 515891 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GORBITSA14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74059&oldid=74058 5* 03X39 5* (+1) 10/* Specification */ Fixed Typos < 1592603134 625458 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: how do you think, is there a better way to escape a character than x ↦ xx, xx ↦ xxx, xxx ↦ xxxx? < 1592603269 423062 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: that would be ugly, how would you put a different escape starting with x after that? < 1592603302 902116 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :xxxxxd? < 1592603311 521692 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1592603314 481478 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how do you distinguish wh... < 1592603397 985273 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it seems a while ago I ended up with a way both unambiguously parsable and resembling this one < 1592603404 590474 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally K&R should have said something like \m is an escape for a backslash, and then everyone copies that together with \n and \t, and perl's and php's quoting functions would turn a backslash to that < 1592603445 264544 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then \mm is a two-level escape of a backslash, while \m\m is an escape for two backslashes, \mn is a double escape for a newline etc < 1592603485 139109 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yeah, \ \m \mm \mmm is the way I think that was < 1592603599 393716 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would you suggest for the case of paired characters? Like, in C# and newer Python3 there are `{` and `}` in format strings, which escape as `{{` and `}}`. This explodes as well as `\\` < 1592603643 613078 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some dump files that I both write and read, I use an escape format where "\x10" is an escape character, to unescape remove it and xor the next byte with 0x20, so a line feed is escaped by "\x10J" and the character itself is escaped as "\x10P", and I use "\x1F" as the string delimiter and if that one came up in a string that would be escaped as "\x10_" too < 1592603683 515585 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for something like C/perl/php/sql source code I wouldn't recommend this, you want them to be printable ascii rather than control characters < 1592603714 292771 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: how do you read those files though? < 1592603755 632153 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I hate python's format string syntax in first place, for reasons unrelated to that escape syntax, but luckily python also offers a more traditional format mechanism with a format syntax like C's printf, so that's what I always use < 1592603809 764083 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: what do you mean how I read them? I either read them with perl or python scripts where I have a function that does the unescaping, and they're easier to read than CSVs because I can read them line by line and a line break always means the end of the record with no mucking about with escaped line breaks, < 1592603823 462208 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I advocated (and I think I still do) US, RS, GS and FS as a CSV replacement but unfortunately they aren’t printable either, though many editors would print them good, but the other issue people wouldn’t be able to input them well < 1592603844 39280 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: ah, I see < 1592603865 471651 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or by eyeballing at them in a text editor, which displays control characters in some fancy way, and again it's easy because then there are no escaped line breaks, so every record is a single line < 1592603893 414518 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also work with CSVs, because I interface with existing programs that read and write them, and quoting line breaks is more ugly there < 1592603908 332862 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :US, RS, GS and FS => I need to add them to my AHK script, for some reason they aren’t there—at least to test various text editors < 1592603944 402853 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, escaped line breaks aren’t good for the eyes < 1592603955 579772 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you ever tried to implement a CSV reader and writer that handles quoted line breaks, quoted field separators, and quoted double quotes, correctly in all corner cases, including detecting malformed input and including accepting either "\n" or "\r\n" as the field separator but preserving the distinction between them inside quoted strings? < 1592603969 614460 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have written such a csv reader and writer, and I believe it's correct now, but it's UGLY AS HELL < 1592603977 23803 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate whoever invented these quoting standards < 1592603998 673426 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: including detecting malformed input => hopefully I won’t need to do that! < 1592604089 203735 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay I suggest using `{|` and `|}` as escapes for `{` and `}` for example. Is it good? < 1592604091 559842 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas the reader and writer for my dump format is trivial, so trivial that I implemented a writer even in VBA, which is such a horrible language that I choose dump everything and then process them in external code rather than try to implement anything nontrivial in VBA directly. I could similarly easily write a reader for this format in VBA, though I haven't done yet, and it would be trivial, at least < 1592604097 594818 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the parsing and unescaping parts would be trivial. < 1592604122 261984 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: again, no clue, because I hate braced format strings in first place < 1592604168 422447 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :VBA is horrible, I agree as someone who wrote in it and in VB6 for some time when there was no internet access and prior to finding a CD with Delphi < 1592604200 928100 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: let’s pretend they aren’t for format strings < 1592604231 111425 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I won’t name another application from the top of the head < 1592604232 42935 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I haven't tried to use the foreign call interface of VBA yet, but maybe I should, linking a DLL and calling my own C functions might work better than dumping to a file in some cases < 1592604245 467027 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should definitely experiment with how easy or difficult that is < 1592604270 388271 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: no clue then, I can't really tell how you should escape something unless there's an actualy application that I can imagine < 1592604309 233163 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, I managed to cause a rules debate in the M:tG 3-card blind thread < 1592604311 991057 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think FFI declarations were more or less good but I didn’t write them those times, only marveled at someone’s registry access code from wherever < 1592604337 219244 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :VBA should interoperate well with COM+! (I’ll show myself out) < 1592604355 955391 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I submitted a deck based on a judgement I received in a private message from the then GM in the previous thread, and the players somehow don't want to use that, despite that in general we use most of the rules from that thread. < 1592604408 171420 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: yes, if I was a windows programmer then I wouldn't even try to use VBA, just call the VBA interface of this application through some COM or whatever interface that is from a non-VBA program < 1592604414 196290 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a C++ or C# program or something < 1592604433 787418 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know there's such an interface, but given that I'm not a windows program and don't want to become one, I have never learned how that thing works < 1592604467 336971 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe C# would be better these times though I didn’t try, I avoid < 1592604496 475757 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean I did try C# and wrote much in it but didn’t try connections of this sort < 1592604510 498978 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still not ideal, because the application interface has a few functions that you can access from the UI and I really want to access them from VBA but there's no interface yet, plus a few of the interface functions have bugs < 1592604521 474805 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still much better than the terrible UI and trying to do everything manually with it < 1592604633 239031 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I have also thought to use US, RS, GS, FS, and the SQLite command-line interface supports this format, too. < 1592604665 444174 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592604672 685364 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: neat! didn’t know, thanks < 1592604678 340709 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And when doing that, I have used \x10 as an escape character, too) < 1592604793 319029 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly I cheat, and use a second escaping mechanism: "\x0B" is a one-byte escape for "\r\n", because that's by far the most common thing I have to escape < 1592604820 805990 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this doesn't change the properties of the format much, it's still very easy to write and read < 1592604885 88499 :LKoen!~LKoen___@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1592604923 888429 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :interestingly, I see AHK pastes US and RS in full but stumbles on GS and FS for some reason < 1592605882 493557 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anyone’s interested how to add them to AHK, I found a simple and working way: send things like `{U+001c}` (this for FS) > 1592606155 586468 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Functional deadfish14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74060 5* 0320kdc 5* (+284) 10Note a possible spec flaw. < 1592606184 848744 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: what is "AHK"? < 1592606527 190525 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: AutoHotkey, a Windows automation tool which allows to define hotkey actions and send strings (aside other things). I use it with a large script to send almost all the unicode characters I post here and elsewhere, by typing LaTeX-like sequences (which wasn’t a good move but now I have what I have), like \rd␣ will send ⌟ < 1592606556 140406 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: ok < 1592606579 374195 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :12345 wow I accidentally used IRC formatting < 1592606591 138418 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm hm < 1592606625 968141 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :evidently FS…US are used for formatting here too. I thought that would be some other unprintable characters < 1592606665 772182 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :GG ohdeerK < 1592606692 846521 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong channel < 1592608227 346274 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rewritten the data model for cpressey’s Tandem almost two times now, it’s time to sleep… < 1592608513 863301 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1592608577 230556 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1592608698 243166 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-ckmhznuajalxvjoa QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1592608964 483071 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1592609324 762228 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592609397 544965 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-mylhvyqodmqgpzou JOIN :#esoteric < 1592609494 955480 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1592609500 285564 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1592609789 487373 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:2160:3556:f605:27df QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1592610367 195693 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and... I accidentally spawned a small debate about US customary units :( < 1592612053 82328 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1592612249 891767 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592613063 946219 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIL it's possible to make an x86 Linux brainfuck compiler via the same "add this header, replace character X with string Y, add this footer" methodology as for some other esoteric languages < 1592613141 299097 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :t20kdc: well of course. if you allow footers, you can make a "compiler" (that embeds an interpreter) for a lot of things. < 1592613154 447276 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1592613158 198418 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: not even embedding an interpreter, though < 1592613183 571753 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: actual compiler, albeit with slightly odd loop handling < 1592613216 732430 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, in this case you can do that too < 1592613223 484653 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though you would have to add an upper limit to the code size < 1592613228 587532 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it can be a large upper limit < 1592613228 698872 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, although presumably it is not optimal, I think > 1592613712 370161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Jumplang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74061&oldid=73263 5* 03Emerald 5* (+175) 10/* Minimization */ new section < 1592615970 378346 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592619090 928113 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1592619529 953566 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1592621277 792005 :ProofTechnique!sid79547@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dvqknqndubshbtji QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1592621287 247692 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I now have a pet brainfuck-compiler-written-in-brainfuck, though it's not very fast < 1592621327 324650 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and by 'pet' I mean 'cute and not very useful', not the device type. target: i386 Linux ELF.) < 1592621380 477068 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it basically amounts to appending a bunch of premade fragments together, so... < 1592621391 502955 :ProofTechnique!sid79547@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hmryebxcdbbogoez JOIN :#esoteric < 1592621430 440052 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :t20kdc: nice. how much does it optimize? < 1592621445 575149 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: literally not at all. 1:1 conversion from instructions to fragments. < 1592621471 937381 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1592621474 361467 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, nice < 1592621708 737992 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: https://20kdc.duckdns.org/bootstrap.c is basically the outline of the compiler, https://20kdc.duckdns.org/kbfc.b is the actual thing, https://20kdc.duckdns.org/kbfc.h is part of the source < 1592621737 708990 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 4AM, so... night < 1592621794 2568 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1592621970 475158 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a brainfuck compiler to target Glulx? The ordinary Glk output stream should work as long as the output of the program is using ISO-8859-1 character set, with no control codes other than line feed. But, to see what optimizations are possible to store stuff in local and global variables, and other stuff like that. The rest is easily enough; you can optimize multiple + or - signs, or such things like [-] easily enough. < 1592623376 785785 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vqihyagtuszqhasx JOIN :#esoteric < 1592623378 640410 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1592624282 326315 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn it, the n key on my keyboard is misbehaving < 1592624292 149889 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope it's just a temporary thing < 1592626973 562837 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592627761 739291 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does any emulator (that emulates NES/Famicom, Gameboy, etc) have an option to draw on the screen to cover up part of the display to make the game more difficult? < 1592628204 343669 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any emulator that supports Lua, I guess < 1592628341 189400 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was there a particular game you had in mind? < 1592628448 645677 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pokemon de Panepon; even if the V-HARD mode is too easy. Why is there no X-HARD mode? < 1592628813 110479 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I do know that there is a hidden mode to increase the maximum speed, and I have activated that. I don't know why that is hidden, though.) < 1592628907 551194 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592629004 205439 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The other possibility would be to give opponent more hit points; do you know how to do that in this game?) < 1592629087 566954 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1592629087 636346 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07International Phonetic Esoteric Language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74062&oldid=73981 5* 03Bigyihsuan 5* (-53) 10version 1.3.0 > 1592629784 846999 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:GORBITSA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74063&oldid=74047 5* 03NooneAtAll 5* (+24) 10/* GORBITSA Program Format */ < 1592630236 681225 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1592630450 902235 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@nat-pool-13-124.soborka.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1592631141 707312 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vqihyagtuszqhasx QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1592631204 583344 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1592632473 507502 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Dion 5* 10New user account < 1592632497 745365 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wjhnoyzbconuxtfp JOIN :#esoteric < 1592632668 892163 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu > 1592632681 366073 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74064&oldid=74056 5* 03Dion 5* (+133) 10 < 1592632751 54520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592632829 971674 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" sadly Jelly's escaping syntax blows up exponentially" => that's sad ← nowadays I normally make it a goal of mine to have nestable string literal syntax when I design languages that benefit from string literals < 1592632872 500991 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the crazy thing is that Jelly actually uses “” quotes to delimit strings, but the delimiters have special meanings when they appear inside a string so they can't be nested in the usual way < 1592633319 779234 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm... maybe I should reconsider the esoteric syntax that I was planning to use for the shortcut syntax for printing literal strings in Consumer Society (for debug purposes, interpreters aren't required to print the string, they're only required to recognize the syntax and be able to skip over the string) < 1592633355 67463 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it blows up exponentially if you try to make a Consumer Society program that prints a Consumer Society program that prints etc < 1592633372 615462 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : b_jonas: how do you think, is there a better way to escape a character than x ↦ xx, xx ↦ xxx, xxx ↦ xxxx ← this doesn't work for the string delimeter, at least not at the end of the string, unless you have some sort of C-like string concatenation rule in the parser < 1592633377 339110 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly in that case you could just use ordinary programming to compress the exponential sequence < 1592633384 832355 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because when you see "a""" you don't know whether you're still inside the string or not < 1592633429 865907 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, I told him and he already admitted that < 1592633442 293367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1592633451 28955 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I get for not reading the whole scrollback before commenting < 1592633491 209888 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there logic languages that are more like SAT than like Prolog? What would they be like? < 1592633495 682373 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I do that all the time too < 1592633508 475642 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, SAT solvers < 1592633533 998619 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, in C, can't you get linear-growth repeated escaping by using trigraphs? < 1592633552 445350 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I mean is that the execution strategy is more like SAT, which is very different from Prolog. < 1592633555 881138 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can get linear growth with just "\x5C" < 1592633559 790102 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I usually write "\x5C" < 1592633571 27657 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, like SAT solvers. But the actual language is more usable. < 1592633585 729387 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\ escapes to ?\?/ escapes to ??\?/?/ escapes to ???\?/?/?/ and so on < 1592633593 215979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but \x5C is possibly clearer? < 1592633601 431585 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess neither is particularly readable < 1592633604 446935 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:4d35:f56d:7e27:bc11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592633621 97391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SMT2 appears to be a fairly featureful language < 1592633622 229274 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the problem is that the easily available escaping function like perl's quotemeta or whatever that thing is in php uses the syntax that blows up exponentially, and that's the function you'll use in a golf language < 1592633626 941029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use it in a non-SAT-solving way < 1592633633 778613 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the syntax is a little ridiculous but not /too/ ridiculous < 1592633649 254064 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a turing-complete language, you always have some way to avoid the exponential blowup < 1592633661 654746 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually use "\x5C" most of the time to represent a backslash in my programs < 1592633670 22504 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate "\\" < 1592633696 869611 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\x5C is a little less portable-in-theory than ?\?/, isn't it? < 1592633703 715517 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I only started this a few years ago, and there are some pragmagic reasons for it like windows cmd syntax < 1592633704 799910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there's no guarantee that 5C = backslash < 1592633713 369933 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, many recent compilers don't implement trigraphs by default < 1592633723 611479 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I haven't seen "pragmagic" before but I like it < 1592633725 265959 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but \x5C is much more portable to things that aren't C with trigraphs (or C++ with trigraph) < 1592633733 849279 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, that was a typo < 1592633740 285234 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to say pragmatic < 1592633748 125365 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\u005C may be more portable to non-C things < 1592633764 647729 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I thought it was a parallel with "automagic" and was trying to figure out the meaning < 1592633780 275394 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, but it doesn't work in C or perl or ... let me test bash, I don't know what it implements these days < 1592633795 683146 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` echo $'u\x5Cv\u005Cw' < 1592633797 298313 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :u\v\w < 1592633803 141655 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it does work in bash < 1592633804 613327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess "automagic" means "it just works in this context because we put effort into making sure it would work", so "pragmagic" would mean "I do this because it just works in a range of contexts, even without the contexts trying to make it work" < 1592633811 946645 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, then it only doesn't work in perl < 1592633821 206813 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` perl -E 'say "\u005C"' < 1592633823 951026 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :005C < 1592633828 429921 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` perl -E 'say "\u{005C}"' < 1592633829 426223 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​{005C} < 1592633837 566169 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` perl -E 'say "\x{005C}"' < 1592633838 622002 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​\ < 1592633839 289902 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: perl's syntax is \x{005C} or \x{5C} < 1592633841 829706 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1592633850 797047 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew it had a syntax for that, just took me a moment to remember it < 1592633868 995753 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the "consensus" escaping format is that \u takes four hex digits and \U takes eight < 1592633872 66245 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in python, it's \x5C or \u005C , either are the same < 1592633872 613724 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although \U is less widely implemented < 1592633882 836901 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, it spread from Java < 1592633887 74769 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in a way, the first two of those eight digits are pointless < 1592633892 451074 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java is influential < 1592633903 588702 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure Java supports \U, I thought you were supposed to \u out a surrogate pair < 1592633913 75478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I admit it's never come up < 1592633919 600680 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the first two of those eight digits is future compatibility for when unicode decides to grow its code space again < 1592633939 187878 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how long it'll take before Unicode doesn't have enough codepoints < 1592633954 11328 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, I know that that's hard because UTF-16 is designed around the current limit < 1592633984 41476 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF-16 is dying out in non-Microsoft contexts < 1592633987 806186 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :albeit slowly < 1592634005 394428 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to remember there being an era when there was a Private Use Area in the eight-hex-digit region < 1592634007 486437 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and Funciton, but I doubt the Unicode Consortium cares much about that < 1592634022 3768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't there an entire astral plane that's private use? < 1592634022 115324 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Maybe SMT2 is an answer, though I kind of doubt you'd want to do programming in it. < 1592634034 256120 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the answer is a regular old language that generates SMT instances. < 1592634037 651584 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think I tried once, although I also think I changed my mind pretty quickly < 1592634049 773798 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to learn how SMT solvers work. < 1592634062 630116 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a vague idea of how DPLL(T) works now but there a lot of other things going on. < 1592634076 585829 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean internally, or from the user's point of view? < 1592634082 916732 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get the impression that there's quite a range of different internal algorithms < 1592634112 507017 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, but does that help? microsoft isn't dying out, and I'm using utf16 because some windows program (which has some half-assed unicode support, though I can't understand why because apparently people in china just use illegal copies without paying the license) only accepts utf16-le as input < 1592634126 464230 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean internally. < 1592634142 794715 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you mean a range of theories or a range of implementation strategies for the non-theory part of the solver? < 1592634145 662002 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I briefly wondered once if someone would invent a conlang that uses a script with exactly 65537 invented characters, just so that it can't fit in the Plane 15 PUA < 1592634163 129632 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know there's DPLL(T), and something called MCSAT which is different, but I thought the general idea didn't vary that much. < 1592634192 6648 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arcorann: I think that plane only has 65534 usable code points, but there's a second smaller private use area so I don't think 65537 is enough < 1592634216 534605 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ended up checking and found that plane 16 is also a PUA < 1592634225 168136 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a small PUA in the BMP, too < 1592634244 18041 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, there are two planes? < 1592634264 414196 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was one plane plus a small one in the material plane < 1592634278 907467 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: both the SMT solvers I've used appear not to care much about which theory is selected, for those solvers the theory selection has a syntactic effect on what programs you can write < 1592634288 946884 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the internal algorithms look at what you actually wrote, not the theory you selected < 1592634303 606715 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which sorts of theories did you use? < 1592634308 114827 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And which solvers?) < 1592634349 494930 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started using z3 because it was the best-known, and moved onto Yices because it was much faster on the programs i was writing < 1592634384 369240 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked up the PUAs in no-longer-valid regions, they were 0xE00000 to 0xFFFFFF and 0x60000000 to 0x7FFFFFFF < 1592634390 794344 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I experimented with a range of theories, mostly involving arithmetic on fixed-bitwidth integers plus something vaguely array-like < 1592634450 296761 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: sorry for my connection < 1592634459 351886 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arcorann: nice. is there an infinite set of private use codepoints if you allow more than 32 bits? < 1592634462 478640 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592634499 803915 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, it's actually fairly easy to extend UTF-16 to more than 21 bits < 1592634512 197909 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just write two or more high surrogates followed by a low surrogate < 1592634544 603824 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that would lose some of the nice properties, eg. now you could have a false match if you tried to do a substring search codepoint-wise < 1592634553 250739 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this has no clashes with existing UTF-16; I think it sorts correctly too < 1592634556 739640 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a more tricky scheme that keeps this is possible < 1592634571 42322 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.open-std.org/CEN/TC304/guidecharactersets/guideannexb.html <-- original description of UCS < 1592634577 35038 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree that it has substring match issues, although there's a simple test to see if they occurred < 1592634583 527108 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but utf-8 extends much more easily < 1592634608 902839 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been reading some of the Yices code. < 1592634610 947252 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's great. < 1592634631 175057 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: isn't there a limit to how far UTF-8 extends while keeping the nice properties? < 1592634642 593526 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't the existing UTF-16 self-synchronizing in a way that this extension isn't? < 1592634652 847385 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :using FE as an initial byte works fine, using FF is problematic if you want to be able to extend it < 1592634654 763001 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no > 1592634661 198799 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MAWP14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74065 5* 03Dion 5* (+1179) 10Created page with "'''MAWP''' is a stack-based [[esoteric programming language]] that was made in 2020. ==Language Overview== '''MAWP''' works on an integer stack, starting with an initial va..." < 1592634663 530906 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: at least not the nice properties that I care about < 1592634682 114375 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it breaks the property that the first byte tells you how long the representation is, but you can't keep that forever < 1592634693 177125 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still keeps all the substring and sorting properties < 1592634700 792870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: what about the property that no character is a substring of any other character? < 1592634742 809741 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you reach FF as a prefix, what's new about the second byte that makes it distinguishable from the first byte of some other character? < 1592634786 251045 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've already used up your entire stock of distinguished bytes < 1592634802 956639 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that property is still kept < 1592634807 627803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1592634816 999871 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait, I have this written up somewhere I think < 1592634868 325084 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn, I may have deleted it < 1592634928 339019 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once pondered defining more surrogates in one of the higher planes, so that six bytes would be used above plane 16 > 1592634939 644552 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MAWP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74066&oldid=74065 5* 03Dion 5* (+371) 10 < 1592634941 678302 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arcorann: yes, that would probably be the sanest solution < 1592634943 645794 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, a lot of SMT solvers support quantifiers? < 1592634951 754587 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: with limits, yes < 1592634958 303038 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read some things about that but I'm still not really sure how it works. < 1592634965 194756 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're incredibly useful, but also hard to implement efficiently < 1592634979 597447 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there are normally restrictions on them based on what the internal algorithm supports < 1592635044 430629 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though thinking about it again that solution would actually be twelve bytes (six BMP surrogates to express three high plane surrogates to express one 31-bit codepoint) < 1592635103 436336 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you just use an astral surrogate followed by two "ordinary" low surrogates? < 1592635109 199002 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF-8-style < 1592635123 406520 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, the encoding above asiic, basically works like this. take the binary form of your codepoint, pad it so the length is 11 plus a multiple of 5 bits. prepend a 0 bit and then prepend a 1 bit for each group of 5 bits that it's longer than 11 bits. then break the resulting bit string to 6 bit chunks (since the above guarantees the length is a multiple of six bits), prepend 11 to the first one < 1592635129 935990 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 10 to the rest of them < 1592635154 631933 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can see how to undo this procedure: strip the first two bits of each byte, and you get a unary encoding of the length, then a 0 bit, then the bits of the code point < 1592635177 186829 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi! < 1592635179 34172 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to be careful with endianness and rejecting overlong encodings of course < 1592635190 988138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: hi < 1592635194 581946 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the unary encoding of the length ensures that the substring property is kept < 1592635205 488594 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: oh, I see, the continuation bytes of the length start 10 < 1592635216 842909 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's nothing really special about FD or FE or FF < 1592635237 968510 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, they would, but not many < 1592635253 257500 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much software actually supports this. perl does, I think, but only up to 2**64 < 1592635277 140196 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :most software just rejects anything over 2**31 or anything over 0x10FFFF < 1592635285 169834 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is fine for non-esoteric applications of course < 1592635290 922979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I was trying to determine how you distinguished a length continuation byte from a starting byte < 1592635296 586338 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't think of encoding the length within continuation bytes < 1592635298 306243 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as you don't mess it up in a way that leads to security vulnerabilities < 1592635303 641882 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, ordinary continuation bytes < 1592635340 947886 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, "0x10FFFF" is such a boring way to say it, why not write out 1114111? it's much prettier-looking and shorter < 1592635358 874175 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it hides the structure of the number. < 1592635421 635982 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :17×2¹⁶-1 is the same length and more descriptive structurally < 1592635436 338618 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, the first byte that's neither FF nor BF determines the length if your input is valid > 1592635479 295672 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MAWP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74067&oldid=74066 5* 03Dion 5* (+2502) 10 < 1592635510 510059 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because I once spent hours debugging a segfault from writing 8096 instead of 8196, and from that point on I'm careful to use hexadecimal numerals for numbers like this, because computers make fewer mistakes than I do < 1592635520 247353 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTF-8#History < 1592635536 450535 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hexadecimal numerals or relying on constant folding < 1592635542 40168 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2¹³ is 8192, although you might of course have wanted 2¹³+4 > 1592635543 713358 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74068&oldid=74052 5* 03Dion 5* (+11) 10 < 1592635583 448786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does seem helpful to memorize constants like 65536 or 4294967296 or 1103515245, though < 1592635590 886657 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what exact number I wanted, it's for the ioctl to load VGA text mode font < 1592635599 902084 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :memorizing them to recognize them, sure < 1592635604 452058 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592635609 363251 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't want to write them < 1592635615 581078 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think (16+1)¹⁶-1 is even more descriptive. < 1592635622 111315 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly I just wrote 65534 above, so I do sometimes write them < 1592635628 165116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have 2⁶⁴ memorised < 1592635631 585614 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps (2^4+1)^16-1, or even (2^4+1)^(2^4)-1 < 1592635649 37013 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: um, but it's neither < 1592635660 520965 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :16 wasn't chosen due to being 2⁴, though < 1592635662 198608 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, so it isn't. < 1592635667 816206 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it's 17*2**16-O(1) < 1592635683 627147 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The number I wrote is obviously wrong. < 1592635697 968 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :16 wasn't chosen due to being 2⁴ but it was surely chosen due to being a power of 2. < 1592635750 645413 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hmm, that's a good question, how much of an accident it is that the 8-bit bytes that won out over 9-bit and 6-bit bytes uses 8 which is a power of 2? < 1592635770 277621 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's certainly convenient for some things, but I don't know if it could have historically been different < 1592635801 968205 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1592635807 352419 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :could we have ended up in an alternate univerese where everything is 9 bits or 18 bits or 36 bits or 72 bits long? < 1592635834 103736 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, the extra 16 planes don't have anything to do with the number 16, the number of planes was chosen so that there would be (2¹⁰×2¹⁰) bytes in them, 16 just happens to 2²⁰÷2¹⁶ < 1592635834 395385 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or where everything is 6 bits or 12 bits or 24 bits or 48 bits or 96 bits long? < 1592635846 570737 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a power of two because it's the ratio between two powers of 2 < 1592635889 359262 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nine-bit bytes were used seriously for quite a while < 1592635897 807887 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and so were 12-bit words < 1592635913 359858 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've worked on a computer that used 14-bit words in ROM (but 8-bit bytes in RAM) < 1592635930 451659 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I mentioned those specific numbers, not 7-bit bytes (which were mostly used in communication, not in computations), or trits (which were used in some experimental computers < 1592635934 594681 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1592635948 652236 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh yeah, microcontrollers sometimes do that thing < 1592635975 587637 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think 14 was chosen because it's a good size for fixed-width instructions on a microcontroller, and it also lets you store strings in ROM two-per-character (assuming ASCII) < 1592635992 654815 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, two-characters-per-word < 1592636018 698530 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, something like that. but if those things spread, we'd still end up having quantities that are power of two bit sized. < 1592636054 339624 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the multiples of 9 bit and multiples of 6 bits that were used as word sizes that I'm mostly concerned about, though admittedly I don't know too much about retrocomputing < 1592636087 984191 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, the most relevant non-power-of-two number I see is 59049, and that's only because it's used by both TriINTERCAL and Malbolge as the number of possible 10-trit values < 1592636128 973638 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :3¹⁰ seems to have been chosen as the standard size of a ternary word in esoprogramming so that it can be simulated using a binary computer with 16-bit words < 1592636138 753470 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but those are both made as deliberately esoteric choices < 1592636151 743404 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TriINTERCAL also supports a 3²⁰-bit word; I think the Malbolge version that does that is called Malbolge-20 < 1592636161 830607 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they use base 3 because non-eso doesn't use base 3 < 1592636162 495289 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which should really be properly specified this year, for the naming pun < 1592636194 972093 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you have to talk to kspalaiologos for that one < 1592636209 969045 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's on Esolang already < 1592636219 325100 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dating from 2017 < 1592636230 541033 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I fear it'll faill into that limbo like the befunge extensions that technically exist but people don't use it < 1592636266 885597 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos uses it < 1592636273 621822 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow < 1592636283 492280 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1592636293 249302 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't get at the spec, though, because the domain is using a security certificate from a different domain < 1592636296 995385 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me try the web archive < 1592636315 708828 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't get at the spec? is this a good time to ask if the C-intercal docs are still unreachable? < 1592636351 263069 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're reachable in a convoluted way, because the source repository from them is online somewhere > 1592636354 318913 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MAWP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74069&oldid=74067 5* 03Dion 5* (+14) 10 < 1592636378 26338 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1592636429 44175 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you find that, please put a link to the article on esolangs.org < 1592636455 624497 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I plan to do anything interesting with intercal < 1592636465 443487 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more interested about your less esoteric projects < 1592636526 664481 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I guess that's obvious, I asked about ayacc and nethack4 and scapegoat and that balanced tree library) < 1592636527 739511 :LKoen!~LKoen___@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1592636543 457298 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:552:cfdf:81ab:e29e JOIN :#esoteric > 1592636589 993262 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07C-INTERCAL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74070&oldid=65534 5* 03Ais523 5* (+263) 10/* External resources */ link my mirror < 1592636622 462821 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1592636961 576249 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started mirroring it when all the other repos disappeared < 1592636965 970854 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but forgot to tell anyone < 1592636979 276786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the only place I commit to nowadays, because there isn't anywhere else to commit to < 1592637074 972147 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1592637094 25378 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tree library doesn't exist yet, right? < 1592637107 151863 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd probably have told me if it existed < 1592637117 897832 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't worked on it for ages < 1592637128 569718 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1592637414 531957 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1592637922 768491 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF-ASM:814]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74071&oldid=73993 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+12) 10'for' plans > 1592637990 157847 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF-ASM:814]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74072&oldid=74071 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+24) 10This will be hard to maintain... < 1592638299 568681 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : > 1592638337 480246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF-ASM:814]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74073&oldid=74072 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+31) 10literally i dont want to make the compileeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer :( < 1592639077 962413 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1592639144 962788 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric > 1592640973 26197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Georgelam6 5* 10New user account < 1592642023 571360 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592642214 416853 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1592643099 849532 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1592643112 469054 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1592643468 315067 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :On this SAT instance (pigeon-hole/hole10.cnf), my SAT solver takes 1.5s, and minisat takes 92.5s (by default) and 8s (when I disable restarts). > 1592644633 767391 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:GORBITSA14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74074&oldid=74063 5* 03Ais523 5* (-23) 10fix talk page formatting > 1592644722 95925 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:GORBITSA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74075&oldid=74074 5* 03Ais523 5* (-1) 10double rv; actually, the formatting was correct in the first place > 1592645614 481631 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF-ASM:814]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74076&oldid=74073 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+74) 10this will be so hard to maintain... ... ... < 1592645904 484696 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592646141 594250 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wjhnoyzbconuxtfp QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1592647042 214300 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GORBITSA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74077&oldid=74059 5* 03Geek Joystick 5* (-13) 10/* Implementations */ > 1592647065 668322 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GORBITSA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74078&oldid=74077 5* 03Geek Joystick 5* (+13) 10/* Implementations */ > 1592648628 635336 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74079&oldid=74064 5* 03Ais523 5* (+60) 10looks like cloud-to-butt is messing up some people's attempt to introduce themselves; it's probably good that that is prohibited, but we should give a clue as to what's going on < 1592648648 458879 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1592649350 886724 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592649808 968213 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592650293 462989 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what’s good about myopia is that you can be absolutely sure no part of your brain read a spoiler if you moved back from the screen quickly enough < 1592650958 419141 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1592652620 488611 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592652719 877987 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1592652787 991283 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1592654501 223418 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1592656510 826202 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MAWP14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74080&oldid=74069 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+617) 10/* Computational class */ comp class + cats > 1592656549 158981 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MAWP14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74081&oldid=74080 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-1) 10/* Language Overview */ remove -> pop > 1592657538 819522 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Jumplang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74082&oldid=73856 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+21) 10/* Commands */ > 1592657548 961040 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Jumplang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74083&oldid=74061 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+197) 10/* Minimization */ > 1592657685 481525 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Jumplang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74084&oldid=74082 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-3) 10/* Commands */ < 1592657877 377906 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric > 1592657920 949869 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Turing-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74085&oldid=68174 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+52) 10CATS > 1592658216 846059 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Jumpmin14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74086 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+3341) 10Minimalization of Jumplang > 1592658235 962655 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Jumplang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74087&oldid=74084 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-29) 10/* Examples */ rm duplicat > 1592658380 222330 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Jumpmin14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74088&oldid=74086 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+302) 10/* Further development */ > 1592658400 727719 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Jumplang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74089&oldid=74087 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-308) 10/* Minimization */ > 1592658429 957612 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Jumplang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74090&oldid=74089 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+58) 10/* See also */ > 1592658458 110891 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74091&oldid=74068 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+14) 10/* J */ + [[Jumpmin]] > 1592658498 595820 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74092&oldid=73952 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+55) 10/* Languages */ > 1592658549 806258 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Vandevelo14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74093&oldid=73949 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+13) 10/* Special variables */ > 1592658579 250062 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Osmarks14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74094 5* 03Osmarks 5* (+149) 10Created page with "{{Deletedpage}} {{PageWIP}} {{Wrongtitle}} {{User:Sinthorion}} {{Spoiler|{{Programming Language}}}} {{:Joke language list}} {{Special:RecentChanges}}" > 1592658623 602475 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Vandevelo14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74095&oldid=74093 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+127) 10/* Expressions */ > 1592658742 660246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Visify14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74096&oldid=73828 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+141) 10/* Syntax */ Comments > 1592658811 179272 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Visify14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74097&oldid=74096 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+153) 10/* Arguments */ how did I forget $x and $y? > 1592658893 260938 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Test14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74098 5* 03Osmarks 5* (+0) 10Osmarks created the page [[Test]] using a non-default content model "JavaScript": Testing > 1592658893 269185 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/contentmodel14]]4 new10 02 5* 03Osmarks 5* 10Osmarks created the page [[02Test10]] using a non-default content model "JavaScript": Testing > 1592658910 896926 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Test14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74099&oldid=74098 5* 03Osmarks 5* (+30) 10 > 1592658992 731729 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Osmarks 5* 10moved [[02Test10]] to [[JS content model test]] > 1592659167 341615 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GORBITSA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74102&oldid=74078 5* 03ZippyMagician 5* (-47) 10Memory starts at 0 < 1592659717 232694 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://everything2.com/title/The%2520Teach%2520Yourself%2520to%2520be%2520a%2520Dummy%2520in%252024%2520Hours%2520Bible <-- I wonder if it's possible to invent a language where this is actually valid code < 1592659811 981708 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i want that book < 1592661071 769328 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't need it now, I'm just curious, does anyone have a backup of the database of New inverse symbolic calculator (ISC, Plouffe's inverter, real number search) "https://isc.carma.newcastle.edu.au/" ? < 1592661453 20124 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592661620 593111 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds > 1592662577 463072 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GORBITSA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74103&oldid=74102 5* 03Geek Joystick 5* (+200) 10/* Programs */ > 1592662591 793080 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07All Turing-complete languages are brainfuck derivatives14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74104 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+2459) 10Created page with "'''All Turing-complete languages are brainfuck derivatives''' is a family of [[esoteric programming language]]s and [[esoteric subset]]s first realized by User:PythonshellDe..." > 1592662653 238969 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Category:Esoteric subset14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74105&oldid=43253 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+24) 10cat > 1592662931 499321 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07All Turing-complete languages are brainfuck derivatives14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74106&oldid=74104 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+88) 10 > 1592662962 293465 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07All Turing-complete languages are brainfuck derivatives14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74107&oldid=74106 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-2) 10/* Subset details */ > 1592662993 148794 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* 10moved [[02All Turing-complete languages are brainfuck derivatives10]] to [[All Turing-complete languages are brainfuck equivalents]] > 1592663003 36269 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07All Turing-complete languages are brainfuck equivalents14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74110&oldid=74108 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10 > 1592663049 853269 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74111&oldid=74092 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+142) 10/* Languages */ > 1592663135 255702 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Int**14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74112&oldid=72742 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-2) 10 > 1592663180 628576 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Int**14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74113&oldid=74112 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+33) 10/* Interpreters */ How can this be Uncomputable ''and'' Implemented? < 1592663569 285614 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.44721359549995793928183473374625524709 what number is htis? < 1592663674 573403 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo '1/sqrt(5)' | bc -l < 1592663675 803302 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​.44721359549995793928 < 1592663935 261411 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` dc -e '40k 1 5v/n' # I keep thinking I should use dc over bc more, but I keep forgetting how < 1592663936 301757 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​.4472135954999579392818347337462552470881 > 1592664094 764254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74114&oldid=70723 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+120) 10cats > 1592664204 498042 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Unibrain14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74115&oldid=43341 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+27) 10/* Related Languages */ ''cat?'' < 1592665414 430624 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1592665879 872744 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@nat-pool-13-124.soborka.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1592666475 706535 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 037n7o 5* 10New user account > 1592666720 755648 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74116&oldid=74079 5* 037n7o 5* (+160) 10/* Introductions */ > 1592666825 174038 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Dominic Zdan 5* 10New user account < 1592666828 870348 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1592667225 406772 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74117&oldid=74116 5* 03Dominic Zdan 5* (+112) 10/* Introductions */ > 1592667341 323050 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PythonshellDebugwindow/Rewriting Language14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74118&oldid=73468 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+141) 10 < 1592667343 900997 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:4d35:f56d:7e27:bc11 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1592667427 301915 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07International Phonetic Esoteric Language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74119&oldid=74062 5* 03Bigyihsuan 5* (+107) 10/* Plosives: Stack Operations */ > 1592667438 214935 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07International Phonetic Esoteric Language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74120&oldid=74119 5* 03Bigyihsuan 5* (+0) 10/* Plosives: Stack Operations */ > 1592668870 752260 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07JS content model test14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74121&oldid=74100 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+57) 10 > 1592669068 26039 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Unified HQ9+14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74122&oldid=71398 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-23) 10import unpipe; unpipe.unpipe("User") > 1592669300 15686 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Embedded HQ9+14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74123&oldid=68894 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+23) 10joke langs == langs > 1592669349 487158 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Letters++14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74124&oldid=66471 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-24) 10wip > 1592670651 277434 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Funciton/Quine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74125&oldid=72814 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+23) 10 > 1592670722 316979 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07LisL/examples14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74126&oldid=73786 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-5) 10page->parent == nullptr > 1592671012 689400 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Register Automaton14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74127&oldid=68190 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+122) 10 > 1592671100 22819 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minscode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74128&oldid=57111 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+10) 10 > 1592671119 254053 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minscode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74129&oldid=74128 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-4) 10/* Instructions */ > 1592671128 98686 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minscode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74130&oldid=74129 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* Instructions */ > 1592673492 440976 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brain14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74131&oldid=57136 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+191) 10/* External Resources */ cats < 1592675077 3751 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric > 1592676871 387522 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07QUATRE-CALC14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74132&oldid=35081 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+50) 10cats > 1592677297 197227 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GORBITSA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74133&oldid=74103 5* 03ZippyMagician 5* (+471) 10Update self-interpreter > 1592677571 499263 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GORBITSA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74134&oldid=74133 5* 03ZippyMagician 5* (+10) 10/* Self Interpreter (by User:ZippyMagician) */ > 1592677775 522755 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MyOwnLanguage14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74135&oldid=66742 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+322) 10 < 1592678763 453297 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric > 1592680309 665005 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MyOwnLanguage14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74136&oldid=74135 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-27) 10/* Interpreter in Python 3 */ > 1592680358 434644 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nairb14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74137&oldid=71194 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-1) 10 < 1592680365 196026 :LKoen!~LKoen___@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1592680411 167607 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ShadyAsFuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74138&oldid=53873 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+2) 10 < 1592680992 392164 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592685002 725841 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have become a three-star programmer. < 1592685135 84165 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not become a rockstar developer? < 1592685351 490673 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of how many stars? > 1592686023 624250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07International Phonetic Esoteric Language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74139&oldid=74120 5* 03Bigyihsuan 5* (+3) 10/* Back Fricatives, Taps/Flaps, Trills: List and String operations */ < 1592686296 82845 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think any number of stars your compiler allows. < 1592686313 685446 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case I wrote some function f(int *argc, char ***argv) < 1592686330 3900 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( is it a regular expression compiler ) < 1592686437 354522 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think of it backwards. if I write a three-star variable, it's often a mistake, and I shouldn't. < 1592686462 507043 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :two stars is fine, I have to use that often < 1592686532 707188 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is not proper software engineering < 1592686556 383387 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :any problem can be solved by an additional level of indirection, which will require an additional star ;-) < 1592686596 673920 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now who wants to be an omega-star programmer? < 1592686626 851556 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have also used three starts sometimes, but it is rare; usually it isn't helpful, but sometimes it is. < 1592686707 564288 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: no, it often won't require an additional star < 1592686723 861070 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: you're too serious < 1592686734 760251 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1592686898 50600 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to rapidly increase your number of stars, I recommend function pointers. < 1592686965 541616 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :moving closure to stardom < 1592687030 602498 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got CDCL working (?) in my SAT solver yesterday. < 1592687047 520667 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I already had clause learning, but I added a really primitive form of clause deletion, so now it's actually practical. > 1592687049 947937 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74140&oldid=72880 5* 03Bigyihsuan 5* (+1468) 10 < 1592687173 731972 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What will you use CDCL for? < 1592687267 444405 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was CDCL again? < 1592687271 103886 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION googles
< 1592687276 917230 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown. < 1592687288 773852 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1592687314 469728 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1592687320 347757 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :spruit11: heh, didn't you implement your own SAT solver? < 1592687326 78175 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or am I mixing up people < 1592687368 299615 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unforunately I'm prone to doing that. < 1592687420 855915 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I implemented sat solver < 1592687424 456854 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did, but I don't think you mean me. < 1592687429 14746 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1592687464 184948 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I added automatic usage message generation to my option parser: https://shachaf.net/tmp/mop/mop.h < 1592687471 28156 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, we have a lot of people here who have implemented sat solvers < 1592687471 129540 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: I'm certain I didn't mean you. < 1592687475 448698 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So convenient. I'm not sure it's worth it. < 1592687499 714600 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: as long as you allow the caller to override it, it's fine > 1592687500 998301 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07All Turing-complete languages are brainfuck equivalents14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74141&oldid=74110 5* 0320kdc 5* (+1540) 10/* Example members (languages and subsets) */ well, if ... any ... substitution is valid... < 1592687501 688588 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor shachaf, there was somebody else. < 1592687519 765153 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Well, the caller doesn't have to call print_usage at all. < 1592687527 448536 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a SAT solver once and then one inspired on NAND reasoning. < 1592687528 955102 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or they can process the list of options themselves. < 1592687540 648461 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter was more general but slow as hell. > 1592687748 463724 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74142&oldid=74140 5* 03Bigyihsuan 5* (+2) 10/* Turing Completeness */ < 1592687767 108987 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used SAT solvers to come up with these puzzles: https://logic-masters.de/Raetselportal/Benutzer/eingestellt.php?name=shachaf > 1592687787 288557 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74143&oldid=74142 5* 03Bigyihsuan 5* (+0) 10/* Turing Completeness */ < 1592687808 516033 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, "eingestellt" < 1592687840 87943 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still have a Sudoko solver in ML somewhere. Lemme look. < 1592687871 301576 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, for some reason the website is in German. < 1592687878 962278 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1592687891 336227 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://666-bits.blogspot.com/2008/01/yet-another-sudoku-solver.html < 1592687892 29817 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.bab.la/dictionary/german-english/einstellen < 1592687897 723231 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you try this sudoku? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vfps6nwPWmU < 1592687905 125471 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't solve this < 1592687922 185613 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: I'd just throw it at my computer program if I can find it. < 1592687937 126054 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't actually like sudokus. < 1592687954 65796 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will be solved easily by algorithms < 1592687962 157418 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592687968 669140 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :half of the advanced deduction procedures exploit the fact that there's a unique solution, which I consider improper reasoning. < 1592687989 58322 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me too. It's more fun to think about solvers than about actual Sudokus. < 1592688018 538391 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are your views on the assumption of uniqueness? < 1592688047 989792 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said... why are you asking me to repeat myself? < 1592688153 192895 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a Python Sudoku solver I wrote once in ~40 lines: https://slbkbs.org/tmp/old-python-solver.py < 1592688198 336490 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric : assumed at the time that 9x9 Sudoku is just too easy for computers to bother. But it turns out even fancy SAT solvers can have trouble with them, depending on your constraints. < 1592688202 52178 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/^/I/ < 1592688228 143700 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you see the Sudoku solver in SQL? < 1592688231 614642 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, it took the SAT solvers I tried quite a while to show that there are no valid Sudoku instances if you don't allow digits to be on the same / or \ diagonal. < 1592688262 356024 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1592688265 800562 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a sudoku solver but i can't find it < 1592688295 5132 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Llasnad giftsubs hype @The_Bool_aid_Man @dr_yolo_14 @oej820 < 1592688317 262318 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree with b_jonas. < 1592688330 812216 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell yeah < 1592688336 141368 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh worry < 1592688344 110508 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep not looking at which channel I'm typing to < 1592688476 850547 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Isn't that what X-Sudokus are? < 1592688490 952046 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean every diagonal and antidiagonal, not just the main ones. < 1592688521 24660 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wrapping around? < 1592688524 594281 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No wrapping. < 1592688529 933529 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just shorter than 9 diagonals. < 1592688533 667058 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Right, I see now. < 1592688540 281230 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's only "at most" constraints, not "at least". < 1592688567 348556 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm, I wonder how obvious that is. < 1592688717 120191 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I should implement restarts in my solver. < 1592688734 540599 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems like an important (and easy) feature. < 1592688782 853603 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose, once you have any kind of learning and possibly variable selection heuristics... < 1592688812 346327 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, I also need to implement a variable selection heuristic. < 1592688823 710006 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right now I'm using a static heuristic which doesn't seem great. < 1592688844 228739 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's probably even more important than restarts. < 1592688852 992079 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise there's no point to restarting. < 1592688858 371583 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had some randomness before but I took it out. < 1592689923 881996 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yah. They come together. < 1592689986 108132 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: do SAT solvers still struggle if you pre-assign the first row to 123456789? < 1592690020 294996 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good question. For a lot of my puzzles I've been trying to break this symmetry with the rules themselves, but of course the diagonal constraints don't do that. < 1592690026 72723 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or something similar that breaks the symmetries) < 1592690314 416442 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :My really old C++ solver takes 1.2ms if given that first row. 0.44s without symmetry breaking (a significant part of the former time is spent on initialization). < 1592690380 883191 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the numbers look like it's not completely obvious. < 1592690414 287250 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it" being the fact that no such sudokus-with-distinct-diagonal-entries exist < 1592690618 432821 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: About assumption of uniqueness, I personally don't make that assumption unless the rules say it is unique (which I have seen in some puzzles, but not Sudoku). < 1592690909 478567 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Wait, now it's instant. < 1592690931 142288 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, it must've been somethig more complicated. < 1592690945 393611 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :My solver is also instant. < 1592690967 724052 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. < 1592691064 339565 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Note that this isn't a SAT solver, it's a dedicated Sudoku solver. < 1592691073 254400 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1592691077 939966 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But hmm, only 75 nodes? Maybe this is obvious after all. < 1592691109 326477 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's hard to say; my search assigns all places for a digit at once. < 1592691134 319079 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had some leftover clues I forgot about. < 1592691144 810221 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :MiniSAT took ~40s with the symmetry breaking, I think. < 1592691168 793873 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :5273809 nodes without symmetry breaking < 1592691334 778802 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It takes MiniSAT 294s without symmetyr breaking. < 1592691342 238338 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :With symmetry breaking it's instant. < 1592691356 975595 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. decent. < 1592691372 210179 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :By which I mean 0.5s, not really instant. > 1592691400 631093 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GORBITSA14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74144&oldid=74134 5* 03ZippyMagician 5* (-10) 10Fix < 1592691797 297259 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Upon closer inspection I doubt it's obvious, that 75 number is pretty misleading :) < 1592692038 130182 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :CaDiCaL takes 509s to show UNSAT. < 1592692051 729970 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 0.045s with symmetry breaking. < 1592692241 212894 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1592693189 846325 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Your C++ solver sounds pretty fancy. < 1592693729 344100 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1592694250 427861 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/sudoku_solve.cc in full uncommented beauty < 1592694277 164349 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :text/x-c++src < 1592694336 8230 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the gist of it is to compute bitmasks for the possible placements of the 9 occurrences of each digit, keep only those that are compatible with the hints, and then do some set covering with that. < 1592694380 760351 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the search depth is only 9, which is probably a large part of the reason why this is pretty fast < 1592694408 326593 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually 8 because the final mask is guaranteed to fit in for free) < 1592694496 974683 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: oh and this is the plain sudoku solver, without the hacked-on diagonal constraint. < 1592694514 644138 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. I wonder whether the thing this is doing could be expressed in SAT better. < 1592694576 59710 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :At first I only expressed the "at least one of each digit" constraints, without "at most one", and it was pretty slow. < 1592694930 258973 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd habitually add the naive C(n,2) disjunctions for the at-most-one constraint. < 1592694951 149675 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1592694965 243337 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I had an instance that my solver was slow on with either at-most or at-least, but fast with both. < 1592694969 950689 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though I know it's easy to express with fewer clauses if you're not afraid of extra variables. < 1592694985 291664 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Now that I have CDCL it's fast either way.) < 1592694996 590173 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't been adding any extra variables so far. < 1592695020 531599 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :some poeple have the attitude that CDCL is better than this than people, learning the *right* clauses of that type. < 1592695043 450814 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect people are still much better at symmetry breaking. < 1592695085 300977 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been doing model counting so I'd need to be careful with the extra variables. Maybe if there was a way to tag variables as "extra" so the solver doesn't count solutions with only extra variable changed. < 1592695096 968677 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh I think that too... espcially when the symmetries are a form of domain-specific knowledge. < 1592695097 302969 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like I should be using a format other than CNF. < 1592695122 355847 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a format where I can give variables names, so I can read them in the solver's debug output. < 1592695137 15884 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, by other than CNF I meant other than DIMACS. < 1592695144 170098 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Right now my variable names are off-by-1 from the DIMACS variable names which is really annoying.) > 1592695190 252688 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Intcode/Interpreters14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74145&oldid=68356 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+38) 10 < 1592695228 927225 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny. There's a format with weighted clauses for Max-SAT. < 1592695267 39730 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :dimacs-based but using 'wcnf' instead of 'cnf' in the 'p' line. < 1592695283 172295 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1592695314 827278 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1592695357 455981 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1592695640 163146 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The trouble is that I'm using other SAT solvers so I need to support DIMACS anyway. < 1592695657 362912 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I just work around it with tools to pre- and post-process the datums I have. < 1592695899 501185 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592695913 803477 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1592696051 48080 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well you could have a dimacs variant that has an extra line specifying the weights for the variables? > 1592696060 803423 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Taktentus14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74146&oldid=50760 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+67) 10/* External resources */ from categories import languages, implemented, y_2015 < 1592696065 312492 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1592696077 966651 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might just put these things in comments for my solver. < 1592696092 858670 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :First I need to make my solver good enough that I don't need to use other solvers all the time. < 1592698582 971141 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello bye < 1592698584 497279 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 QUIT :Quit: gone too far < 1592698659 405072 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PART #esoteric :"FAKE CHICKEN" < 1592698659 405147 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1592698698 579945 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592699874 400984 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@nat-pool-13-124.soborka.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of SAT solvers < 1592699880 702388 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@nat-pool-13-124.soborka.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SAT solver on top of regex matcher https://yurichev.com/news/20200621_regex_SAT/ < 1592700257 574010 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@172.242.0.73 JOIN :#esoteric > 1592700264 359866 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BWTFN14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74147&oldid=64508 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+44) 10/* Print something 1000 times */ > 1592700288 788321 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BWTFN14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74148&oldid=74147 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-4) 10Fix headers < 1592701675 941951 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592701737 971701 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1592701744 245395 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1592701765 874153 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592703998 806069 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@172.242.0.73 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1592709848 646956 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GORBITSA14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74149&oldid=74144 5* 03ZippyMagician 5* (+8) 10Fix interpreter error > 1592710472 902344 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Chibill 5* 10New user account > 1592710648 597802 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74150&oldid=74117 5* 03Chibill 5* (+181) 10 > 1592710674 671015 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74151&oldid=74150 5* 03Chibill 5* (+1) 10 > 1592710975 484615 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GORBITSA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74152&oldid=74149 5* 03Chibill 5* (+423) 10Add my GORBITSA compiler to the list of implementations. < 1592711031 485628 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds > 1592711041 115710 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GORBITSA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74153&oldid=74152 5* 03Chibill 5* (+14) 10Fix link to it. < 1592711152 889400 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric > 1592711408 725177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Arcorann14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74154 5* 03Arcorann 5* (+38) 10Created page with "== Subpage index== *[[/TPK Algorithm]]" < 1592713821 234965 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have a copy of the envelope for the IBM flowchart template? < 1592713886 882872 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1592714851 967561 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592715782 52450 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@nat-pool-13-124.soborka.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: me? < 1592715847 446074 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, anyone, really. < 1592716045 428725 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? zzo38 < 1592716048 155976 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 is not actually the next version of fungot, much as it may seem. < 1592716079 329429 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@nat-pool-13-124.soborka.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? int-e < 1592716080 820953 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e är inte svensk. Hen kommer att spränga solen. Hen står för sig själv. Hen gillar inte färger, men han gillar dissonans. Er hat ein Hipster-Spiel gekauft. < 1592716084 553383 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@nat-pool-13-124.soborka.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ArthurStrong < 1592716089 78728 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :ArthurStrong ? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1592716100 732033 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@nat-pool-13-124.soborka.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? shachaf < 1592716102 127164 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Queen Shachaf of the Dawn sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. He doesn't know when to stop asking questions. We don't like this. < 1592716167 669260 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@nat-pool-13-124.soborka.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? arseniiv < 1592716169 180643 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv is a blank slate who is afraid of alchemy, especially the kind involving chalk. < 1592716190 414542 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@nat-pool-13-124.soborka.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what to do to earn a personal entry for this bot? wondering... < 1592716197 283822 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@nat-pool-13-124.soborka.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? shachaf < 1592716198 879995 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Queen Shachaf of the Dawn sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. He doesn't know when to stop asking questions. We don't like this. < 1592716210 147224 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1592718754 866333 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592720380 999285 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1592722463 376741 :LKoen!~LKoen___@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592722573 438851 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:dec:154e:7520:8530 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592723137 942539 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@nat-pool-13-124.soborka.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds > 1592723139 813402 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Arcorann/TPK Algorithm14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74155 5* 03Arcorann 5* (+1637) 10Created page with "The '''TPK algorithm''' is an algorithm used by Luis Trabb Pardo and Donald Knuth in the 1977 paper "The Early Development of Programming Languages" to demonstrate various fea..." > 1592723169 55356 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DOGO14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74156&oldid=70760 5* 03Arcorann 5* (+35) 10/* External resources */ < 1592723231 908185 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@nat-pool-13-124.soborka.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592723306 852781 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@nat-pool-13-124.soborka.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1592723505 790116 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:dec:154e:7520:8530 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1592727627 144818 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds > 1592728276 257505 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Horsey 5* 10New user account > 1592730447 289502 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Int**14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74157&oldid=74113 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+46) 10 > 1592731979 421395 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74158&oldid=74151 5* 03Georgelam6 5* (+179) 10/* Introductions */ > 1592731994 305127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitshit14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74159 5* 03Georgelam6 5* (+1019) 10Bitshit is a programming language that can only work in bits. > 1592732057 854337 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitshit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74160&oldid=74159 5* 03Georgelam6 5* (+105) 10 > 1592732111 834736 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitshit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74161&oldid=74160 5* 03Georgelam6 5* (-98) 10 > 1592732137 891014 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitshit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74162&oldid=74161 5* 03Georgelam6 5* (+98) 10 > 1592732183 169831 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitshit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74163&oldid=74162 5* 03Georgelam6 5* (+48) 10 > 1592732249 792460 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitshit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74164&oldid=74163 5* 03Georgelam6 5* (+85) 10 > 1592732328 782362 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitshit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74165&oldid=74164 5* 03Georgelam6 5* (-40) 10 > 1592732416 690393 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitshit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74166&oldid=74165 5* 03Georgelam6 5* (-69) 10 > 1592732455 141141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitshit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74167&oldid=74166 5* 03Georgelam6 5* (-113) 10 > 1592732540 724387 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitshit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74168&oldid=74167 5* 03Georgelam6 5* (+76) 10 > 1592732564 496122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitshit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74169&oldid=74168 5* 03Georgelam6 5* (-4) 10 > 1592733043 877730 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74170&oldid=74158 5* 03Horsey 5* (+44) 10 > 1592733078 252554 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GORBITSA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74171&oldid=74153 5* 03Horsey 5* (+1582) 10/* Programs */ > 1592733111 211264 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GORBITSA14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74172&oldid=74171 5* 03Horsey 5* (+9) 10/* Snake (By Horsey) */ < 1592733320 801054 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1592733954 989738 :Dion!6dfc57d6@109.252.87.214 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592734093 372960 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592734226 517348 :Dion!6dfc57d6@109.252.87.214 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi! I had a question. If I, for example, wanted to add features to my language that i created and submitted a couple days ago, would it be better to just edit the existing page, make a 2.0 version of the language or just not do anything for now? < 1592734310 21852 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds > 1592735250 602491 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MAWP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74173&oldid=74081 5* 03Dion 5* (+27) 10 < 1592735972 934110 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :edit it. < 1592736109 671894 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :even _if_ you made a 2.0 version, why would you not put that on the same page? < 1592736328 139414 :Dion!6dfc57d6@109.252.87.214 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, thx! < 1592736482 224733 :Dion!6dfc57d6@109.252.87.214 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1592738905 828416 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GORBITSA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74174&oldid=74172 5* 03Horsey 5* (+17) 10/* Snake (By Horsey) */ < 1592739036 427189 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592739193 957999 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1592739208 978909 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life > 1592740304 691291 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GORBITSA14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74175&oldid=74174 5* 03Horsey 5* (+21) 10/* Snake (By Horsey) */ < 1592741213 487573 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592741808 988215 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592742156 629599 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric : that's what I get for not reading the whole scrollback before commenting yeah, I do that all the time too => I’ve read this part only now even > 1592744108 57192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitshit14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74176&oldid=74169 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+250) 10wikify > 1592744120 210317 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitshit14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74177&oldid=74176 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* External resources */ fix cat > 1592744777 989943 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Con-Text14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74178&oldid=12135 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+207) 10/* Implementation */ cats + tc > 1592744786 589478 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Con-Text14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74179&oldid=74178 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* Turing-completeness */ > 1592745677 494993 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Wumpus14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74180&oldid=54081 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+6) 10 < 1592745740 856321 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1592746845 926927 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592747158 673768 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask cpressey in Tandem, should `lα → α` be considered changing stack `l`? I’d use a simple diff to determine if R & S = 0 and if R | S should raise an error when in deterministic mode, if `lα → α` and `lα… → α…` are identities, otherwise I’d need to collect changes when applying R*, to know all `l` for which there were changes, even if their final values ended up unchanged < 1592747158 673828 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. > 1592747658 921825 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Arch14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74181&oldid=67745 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+3) 10/* Computational Properties */ > 1592747796 588924 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07An arch is simply a curve.14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74182&oldid=68240 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1) 10/* Specification */ < 1592748274 922608 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell cpressey “and M(R) is the set of objects matched by the pattern at some given point in the rewrite process” => ah, this part seems to indicate that `lα → α` is not 1 < 1592748274 922680 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1592748733 941350 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds > 1592749229 124490 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Jumpmin14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74183 5* 03Emerald 5* (+1145) 10/* Extra minimization */ new section < 1592749759 2512 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric > 1592750755 375921 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GORBITSA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74184&oldid=74175 5* 03ZippyMagician 5* (-59) 10Large bugfix of interpreter < 1592751004 479765 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1592751042 112280 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GORBITSA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74185&oldid=74184 5* 03ZippyMagician 5* (+0) 10Update node.js interpreter < 1592753814 459262 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais532 < 1592753818 26979 :ais532!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 > 1592753942 363553 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Perl14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74186&oldid=68956 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+23) 10/* In shell scripts */ cat > 1592754183 599733 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NotBrainFuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74187&oldid=66056 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-16) 10unpipe < 1592754249 351662 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would English spellings be less messy if you are using Germanic rather than Latin alphabets? Latin alphabets are good for Latin writing, but maybe not so much in English? > 1592754333 450559 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07No14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74188&oldid=70042 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+88) 10/* Hello, World program */ > 1592754352 566583 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07No14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74189&oldid=74188 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1) 10/* Hello, World program */ > 1592754432 876584 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07No14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74190&oldid=74189 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+158) 10cats + deadlink /* External resources */ < 1592754434 266962 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't think any popular germanic language has an ortohgraphy that could reasonably get close to representing English's large inventory of vowel qualities > 1592754468 66134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dominic Zdan14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74191 5* 03Dominic Zdan 5* (+168) 10Created page with "== What I do == I am a Ruby programmer I am planning on creating my own esolang == What im working on == Im working on a language that has a self explanatory syntax" < 1592754478 77848 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no < 1592754525 554359 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean using runes, not the modern alphabets > 1592754532 921794 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dominic Zdan14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74192&oldid=74191 5* 03Dominic Zdan 5* (+3) 10/* What I do */ > 1592754676 591390 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dominic Zdan14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74193&oldid=74192 5* 03Dominic Zdan 5* (+18) 10 < 1592754694 91018 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the English runes are actually more than those of other Germanic languages > 1592754703 954074 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dominic Zdan14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74194&oldid=74193 5* 03Dominic Zdan 5* (-8) 10/* What I do */ > 1592754721 561726 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dominic Zdan14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74195&oldid=74194 5* 03Dominic Zdan 5* (-6) 10/* What im working on */ > 1592755072 793551 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dominic Zdan14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74196&oldid=74195 5* 03Dominic Zdan 5* (+2) 10/* What im working on */ > 1592755093 238605 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dominic Zdan14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74197&oldid=74196 5* 03Dominic Zdan 5* (+0) 10/* What im working on */ > 1592755114 66005 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dominic Zdan14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74198&oldid=74197 5* 03Dominic Zdan 5* (+0) 10/* What im working on */ > 1592755139 777738 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dominic Zdan14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74199&oldid=74198 5* 03Dominic Zdan 5* (+2) 10/* What I do */ > 1592755170 835280 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dominic Zdan14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74200&oldid=74199 5* 03Dominic Zdan 5* (-1) 10/* What im working on */ > 1592755205 620883 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dominic Zdan14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74201&oldid=74200 5* 03Dominic Zdan 5* (-3) 10/* What im working on */ > 1592755227 11904 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dominic Zdan14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74202&oldid=74201 5* 03Dominic Zdan 5* (-5) 10/* What I do */ > 1592755238 780338 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dominic Zdan14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74203&oldid=74202 5* 03Dominic Zdan 5* (-3) 10/* What im working on */ < 1592755756 365487 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric > 1592756502 645600 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GORBITSA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74204&oldid=74185 5* 03ZippyMagician 5* (+9) 10Update < 1592756667 452472 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the runes don't have more vowels either, I think < 1592756688 802451 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least as far as I know futhark runes < 1592756847 614725 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:55f2:17e9:76b6:59e0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1592757410 868605 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592758359 334779 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:1979:8ce1:6647:fba7 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592763537 467078 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1592764080 486759 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu > 1592764487 908141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Jumpmin14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74205&oldid=74183 5* 03Emerald 5* (+207) 10Edit < 1592765194 248161 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:c1b7:1427:df67:c03c JOIN :#esoteric < 1592765766 964592 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592767052 349969 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1592768182 81678 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: IPA may be enough, and there were several other attempts to make an English-tailored phonetic alphabet for use in pre-school teaching and something like that, though all based on latin, enhanced with additional letters (almost just like in IPA, though maybe more kid-friendly and connected with the usual orthography). But the situation is bad as phonology is different in some details for various English dialects, even if we take only prestigious < 1592768182 227091 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ones. Though these differences are not that big yet, but they definitely would cause arguing which phonetic spelling is better. There are even minor disputes what phonemes there are for any given language variant as real languages are a little bit more complex than a simple (and for many purposes, good) model phonology uses < 1592768399 309450 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know the phonology is different in different dialects, but I thought runes already solved that problem, although maybe I am wrong < 1592768971 349065 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: "based on latin" how much? which of these do you count as based on latin: Shavian, futhark, braille, Moon, American/German fingerspelling, British fingerspelling, semaphore flags, morse, Baudot code, Hollerith card code (or EBCDIC and MIX character code based on them), ASCII < 1592769010 93158 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :of those, only Shavian is a pronunciation-based system, the rest are just alternate scripts for that are sometimes used to write English with the same spelling system < 1592769081 896206 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yeah I mainly considered phonetic scripts < 1592769157 367445 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I guess I should ask about the major stenographic systems used for English: Pittman and Gregg, since those definitely try to be somewhat pronunciation-based, do you count as based on Latin? < 1592769169 616381 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: phonology is not that different usually, phonemes are more abstract than the sounds we speak, but “phonetical” writing usually describes something on phonemic level rather than something more lower-level < 1592769183 406483 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is unfortunate naming < 1592769207 329739 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: ok, but if you only consider phonetic scripts, then does Shavian and/or Deseret count as Latin-based? < 1592769264 578103 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yeah I didn’t want to say they are all based on latin, sorry :D but people seem to concentrate on latin-based when making a graphics which is easier to transition into from the current one < 1592769499 256160 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know there are several phonetic notations for English that are clearly based on latin: several variants based on IPA, a few that try to be ASCII transcriptions of IPA-like systems, a few based on diacritics over letters in Webster dictionary's style, and a few others like the notation in http://www.wyrdplay.org/AlanBeale/CAAPR-ref.html (strongly recommended) and the notation in < 1592769505 342966 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.speech.cs.cmu.edu/cgi-bin/cmudict (not recommended) < 1592769685 901075 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1592769797 472119 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1592769966 18641 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For writing the pronounciation, I also had another idea rather than IPA, which is not based on Latin or other alphabets but rather based on the position in the consonants and vowels grid. > 1592770326 289084 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Blablafuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74206&oldid=50847 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+694) 10/* Hello World */ < 1592770559 384869 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1592770641 558153 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1592770761 235655 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamplighter_group > 1592770793 114892 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Consequential14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74207&oldid=68959 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-2) 10 < 1592770865 59326 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Quit: zzo38 < 1592770923 589029 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1592771079 87983 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do I need to compute something with all the 2^n conjugates of a number x ∈ Q[√a1][√a2]…[√an] to find its minimal polynomial over Q? < 1592771130 88715 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may not need to < 1592771173 799792 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can create a nxn matrix that represents the action of multiplication by x on a given basis, if you can find any basis for Q(x) < 1592771185 812093 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the characteristic polynomial of that matrix (M - Ix) will be the minpoly < 1592771343 249323 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1592771349 80966 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not sure if it is nxn anymore < 1592771372 733243 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's 2^n x 2^n i only did this with n=2 before < 1592771392 50410 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: oh! This seems both a more right way to do things and both a more intellectually demanding one (reading about finding a basis for Q(x)). Hm did you mean Q[x]? All a1, …, an are positive and don’t have a square root in the corresponding fields Q, Q[√a1], …, Q[√a1]…[√a(n−1)] < 1592771446 737111 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's think about the n=3 case, say sqrt(2), sqrt(3), sqrt(5) < 1592771452 151396 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: hm if the size is exponential then surely a plain multiplication of (X − x), (X − one conjugate of x), … (X − the last conjugate of x) will be the same complexity? < 1592771455 424597 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it has size 2^3 = 8... < 1592771457 49023 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my bad < 1592771512 880117 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe that a = sqrt(2) + sqrt(3) + sqrt(5), will be a primitive element so {1,a,a^2,a^3,a^4,...,a^7} will be a basis < 1592771539 646151 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no problem. I started thinking about this problem by reading a Python impl of constructible numbers here: https://github.com/leovt/constructible/blob/master/constructible.py#L323 (it follows another impl in Haskell but that one doesn’t concerns itself with hashes and minimal polys) < 1592771550 708183 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it will not be too bad to produce the 2^n x 2^n matrix < 1592771580 288256 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm but the min poly is not enough < 1592771599 137769 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you also need an approximation of the value or something, to uniquely determine which root of the minpoly you are referring to? < 1592771634 636988 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the hash? why? If 2^n elements have the same hash and n is a reasonable value which won’t blow one’s RAM off, I think it should be cool < 1592771673 652001 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and the equality testing is covered without resorting to the hash; this one is easy) < 1592771679 120763 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right! < 1592771702 368698 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :earlier I meant det(M - Ix) < 1592771779 915509 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yeah, I read that as “the characteristic polynomial of M” and negated that typo :D < 1592771939 678693 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :^help < 1592771939 823014 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool < 1592771945 719198 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the constrible numbers is the field with all square roots added(?) < 1592771953 438760 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :connstructable < 1592771972 859591 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1592772028 481629 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it’s a union of all Q[√…]…finite…[√…] < 1592772084 587741 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a union in a sensible manner, I don’t know how that’s done precisely but for any two elements you can find a Q[√…]…finite…[√…] they both immerse in < 1592772176 704049 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: it's done by making it a subfield of the field of complex numbers < 1592772225 832909 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I worry current implementations don’t try to compress the count of field extensions too eagerly for it to be usable in actual computations, but I haven’t read their code (neither Python, nor Haskell) enough < 1592772253 131120 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: ah, that thing. Then the reals would be sufficient for the case used in geometry < 1592772267 843080 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I think GAP's implementation handles that well, I don't know about other implementations < 1592772295 441807 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just all real square roots < 1592772308 530372 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: reals vs complexes doesn't matter much here on account that sqrt(-x) = i*sqrt(x), so the complex version is just the real version extended with i < 1592772330 697637 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait, that's not enough proof < 1592772331 34486 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :agree < 1592772335 809494 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1592772393 946784 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least I agree something like that should be going there, C being algebraically closed and all that < 1592772589 157798 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like also how the origami constructible numbers includes cube roots < 1592772625 788857 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is nice < 1592772637 717483 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can trisect angles < 1592772645 47150 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how this relates to cube roots < 1592772648 145551 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i heard you can < 1592772877 826371 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the point is that you can write the square root of a complext number as sqrt(x + i*y) = sqrt((sqrt(x**2+y**2) + x)/2) + i*sqrt((sqrt(x**2+y**2+y)/2), which is not an equation I know by heart but I probably should, but I do know that it exists, < 1592772896 136777 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need to know it < 1592772908 828630 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know this < 1592772947 100208 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and beacuse of that, if you want to do calculations on complex numbers with square roots and field ops, you can emulate them with square roots and field ops on real numbers, < 1592772994 585984 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the same as doing compass and ruler constructions, so you don't get more constructible numbers on complexes, or more square root field extensions if you allow complex square roots; < 1592773036 112905 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this case contrasts to cube roots, where you definitely can't compute the cube root of a complex number using just real cube roots, real square roots, and field operations and i < 1592773036 113007 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I think I nailed the algorithm to compute a minpoly < 1592773046 865408 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :noice < 1592773048 712646 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you do it? < 1592773097 897187 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why you can't solve some cubic equations with real coeffs using only real cube roots, but you can solve them using complex square roots. < 1592773114 181451 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :woah < 1592773146 151118 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not really why you can't construct angle trisections: you can't construct either kind of cube root with a compass, you can't even construct 2**(1/3) with a compass < 1592773175 559322 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you would need a complex cube root for angle trisection. < 1592773240 748277 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: the conjugation on each level of the Q[...]... tower has usual complex conjugation properties like (xy)′ = x′y′, (x + y)′ = x′ + y′, 0′ = 0, 1′ = 1 so we can conjugate polynomials coefficientwise and get polynomials for larger and larger products of monomials each for its own conjugate of the number < 1592773248 950225 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that in the above formula, if x and y are real, all four square roots have nonnegative real numbers as the argument < 1592773258 854853 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: does that make sense? < 1592773368 68074 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example we start with P0 ≡ X − x, then let’s denote more and more deep conjugations as ′, ″, ‴, …, then (X − x) (X − x′) is the same as (X − x) (X − x)′ = P0 P0′ =: P1, then we do P1 P1′ =: P2 and so on for each field extension right to the inner Q then we’re done < 1592773386 746123 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don’t know how bad it is but seems pretty economical < 1592773402 861031 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah i see < 1592773414 207290 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this would require lots of multiplications in the base field < 1592773429 452896 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will work though < 1592773440 232918 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah but there’s a little caveat, we need to skip “inessential extensions” which give the same P > 1592773463 967755 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dominic Zdan14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74208&oldid=74203 5* 03Dominic Zdan 5* (+57) 10/* What im working on */ < 1592773473 41433 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: there's actually an algorithm to do computations on constructible numbers using nothing but fancy square root stuff, no fancy field theory tricks, but in general it's so slow that it's impractical, which is why you want an implementation like that in GAP (which actually handles a much larger subset of algebraic numbers than constructible numbers) < 1592773484 999122 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if Pi′ = Pi, then we set P(i+1) := Pi, not a square < 1592773541 890525 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: do you mean something better than 2^n rational numbers for each Q[√a1]…[√an]? < 1592773583 375185 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: the former isn't much better than that (you can use a sparse vector), I don't know how the latter works < 1592773620 679927 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can look it up in the docs < 1592773628 258704 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the latter uses something about modules and things like Gröbner bases or what was it < 1592773654 911655 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can work in the ring Q[x,y,z]/(x^2-2,y^2-3,z^2-5) < 1592773669 420588 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :field < 1592773698 924652 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know there's also an algorithm to compute with arbitrary algebraic complex numbers, but it's so difficult that I know of only one thing that implements it, and that thing is Mathematica and its implementation is effectively a black-box. I have no idea how that algorithm works. < 1592773724 142650 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: the GAP docs has a description, if you can't find it ping me and I'll look up a link < 1592773745 212336 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus it's open source < 1592773756 107308 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric : arseniiv: does that make sense? => I certainly remember finding a formula for sqrt(x + iy) but I don’t remember if that ended up as your one sorry < 1592773766 839225 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always thought that would be a good project to do, exact algebraic computations < 1592773777 368164 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that a pair of approximation + minpoly would be OK < 1592773794 141699 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since an approximation is enough to let you compute a more accurate approximation < 1592773824 173510 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that one was reminiscent of half-sine and half-cosine formulas I think (for obvious reasons of course) but I think it would need some cooking to turn into this one < 1592773831 988148 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not exactly sure how you + and * these elements < 1592773855 740068 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric : arseniiv: the GAP docs has a description, if you can't find it ping me and I'll look up a link => thanks! Though I’m not pursuing this think that hard yet < 1592773857 364820 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :never mind, I'll look it up: https://www.gap-system.org/Manuals/doc/ref/chap18.html < 1592773859 675789 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would be very cool to do this exact computation with algebraic numbers < 1592773910 654026 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps the LLL algorithm would be fine < 1592773920 248866 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would just need a way to know how accurate an approximation is needed < 1592773925 186463 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: yes, it's not trivial that the algebraic numbers even form a field < 1592773933 840203 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why you need minimal polynomials < 1592773947 25803 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric : never mind, I'll look it up: https://www.gap-system.org/Manuals/doc/ref/chap18.html => how does one represent those extensions via cyclotomic numbers? < 1592773974 376281 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may implement this < 1592773985 396024 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there some cool uses of it I could do if i make this? < 1592773993 235697 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though for just constructible numbers, it is trivial that they form a field, that's basically how they're defined < 1592774063 373553 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a bunch of math stuf i want to implement actually < 1592774066 483636 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :symmetric polys < 1592774084 542819 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric : are there some cool uses of it I could do if i make this? => precisely checking if tiles of some constructible (or algebraic) tileset match and constructing pieces of tesselations this way < 1592774110 596690 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw into the constructible numbers once because of precisely this < 1592774153 47558 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I intend to use floating point and correct inaccuracies in some unknown manner but it should be possible as the construction is rigid < 1592774203 819764 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes < 1592774210 611962 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I might be wrong here, but I think cyclotomic numbers are closed to field ops and square root, so any constructible number is a cyclotomic number. for representing a specific field extension, I don't know, you probably want a finite basis (a set of cyclotomics that generate your field), except this time you represent those numbers as cyclotomics < 1592774221 900170 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was also CReal which was very cool < 1592774235 236259 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and do the field operations and square root on numbers represented as cyclotomics < 1592774251 843365 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :every abelian extension is a subfield of a cyclotomic field I think < 1592774266 201529 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: I implemented quaternionic logarithm once though I don’t think I know what branch that code selects; at least exponentiating it should give back the original number, modulo rounding errors < 1592774291 570349 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it’s a pity I hadn’t found formulas anywhere, they’re quite simple < 1592774316 778904 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the result for a rotation quaternion is its axis-angle representation < 1592774385 501408 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: that's easy, you can implement it based on complex logarithm, because any non-real quaternion generates (as a real vector space) a set isomorphic (as a field) to complex numbers, and you can just construct the isomorphism with complex numbers trivially and compute logarithm there < 1592774390 475901 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the possible values of the logarithm in that case would just have the same axis and the angle + 2 π Z, as is indeed logical < 1592774423 213296 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv, what would be an example of these algebraic tilings? < 1592774457 889764 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://blogs.ams.org/visualinsight/2013/09/01/algebraic-numbers/ < 1592774485 234664 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: hm I didn’t thought about this that way but yeah I used that the vector quaternion squares to −1 < 1592774499 212206 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in practice this means you split your argument to its real part p and imaginary part q, compute r the mangitude of q, compute u + i*v = log(p + i*r), then log(p + q) = u + q/r*v < 1592774563 865780 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: I mean, if there is a tiling which uses regular heptagons, as they aren’t constructible, so one will indeed need arbitrary algebraic numbers to represent tilings with tiles like that < 1592774579 265080 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1592774635 207105 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://blogs.ams.org/visualinsight/2014/11/15/packing-regular-heptagons/ < 1592774739 603095 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: oh, so one can use only two kinds of tiles, that kite-like one added < 1592774744 111604 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: but there's no such tiling, at least not in the Eucleadian plane. there is a hyperbolic tiling of course. < 1592774762 269447 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be a nice test, to construct a piece of this packing, for the framework < 1592774781 914358 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I mean not by only heptagons :D < 1592774826 359691 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I quite like tilings with many kinds of tiles, compared to regular ones, they are boring < 1592774845 439866 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1592774851 840639 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the regular ones are boring; I need to use commas the right way) < 1592774866 571291 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’ll go to, I think < 1592774947 366123 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: well ok, at least there's no tiling with regular heptagons and other regular polygons either < 1592775019 158486 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you just want something like a regular heptagon plus two tight packaging thingies on its side that complete it to a square, then the algebraic numbers in your heptagon don't actually cause any difficulties > 1592775073 794477 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03AdCharity 5* 10New user account < 1592775138 324463 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric : arseniiv: well ok, at least there's no tiling with regular heptagons and other regular polygons either => do you mean other than 3, 4 and 6-gon? > 1592775157 482916 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74209&oldid=74170 5* 03AdCharity 5* (+185) 10I added my name :P < 1592775169 407125 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: no, any that uses at least one regular heptagon < 1592775181 292897 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric : and if you just want something like a regular heptagon plus two tight packaging thingies on its side that complete it to a square, then the algebraic numbers in your heptagon don't actually cause any difficulties => yeah that tiling is not good enough < 1592775190 435266 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can't even complete the surrounding of a vertex to 2 pi angle if there's a heptagon plus regular polygon angles < 1592775209 543803 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: ah now I think I parsed that < 1592775258 618607 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the good kind of tiling is something like these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voderberg_tiling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammann%E2%80%93Beenker_tiling < 1592775302 652028 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye! < 1592775304 852062 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 QUIT :Quit: gone too far > 1592776325 885136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dominic Zdan14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74210&oldid=74208 5* 03Dominic Zdan 5* (-144) 10/* What im working on */ > 1592776352 17728 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dominic Zdan14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74211&oldid=74210 5* 03Dominic Zdan 5* (-5) 10/* What I do */ < 1592776785 146755 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:c1b7:1427:df67:c03c QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1592779571 623671 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07((?)?)?14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74212&oldid=61621 5* 03Dominic Zdan 5* (+1) 10/* Groups */ < 1592780050 348274 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1592782220 800494 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592782359 930540 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592782393 689848 :LKoen!~LKoen___@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1592782394 600676 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1592782399 813917 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1592782631 33350 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1592783244 524213 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592783439 395271 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1592783560 901823 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1592786014 376822 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is anyone here a ghostscript wizard? I've got a file where all the pages are set to letter size, but the actual content is half-letter. < 1592786060 636027 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can resize the pages, but the actual content is half on the final page, half off. I just need to figure out how to shift it down a bit. < 1592786125 874256 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: I think the page size is included only in the DSC comments, so you can edit that. but there's a chance that the content wasn't aligned to the origin of the postscript coordinate system, in which case you'll get the empty half of the paper. < 1592786138 498608 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: can you try that first? if that doesn't work, I'll try to look for some other solution < 1592786482 898694 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: I use Ghostscript. < 1592786498 68631 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can set the page size using command-line arguments, or using setpagedevice. < 1592786522 151560 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks < 1592786524 527303 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't use DSC though, but I know that you can use setpagedevice to set the page size) < 1592786581 142733 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am using this command-line: gs -o tcwn11.pdf -sDEVICE=pdfwrite -g3960x6120px spring92.ps < 1592786600 736623 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :On this file http://pauillac.inria.fr/~doligez/corewar/tcwn/spring92.ps.gz < 1592786601 975939 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to shift down the contents of the page, you can use set your own transformation matrix. < 1592786624 696681 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's resizing the pages, just half the text isn't on the page. < 1592786769 701538 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You would use the translate command to move the origin of the coordinate system. < 1592786826 527019 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, just going to look up translate < 1592787087 30976 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: the pstops tool from impomatic can resize pages and translate the contents without rewriting anything, so it keeps basically all the info that was in the postscript < 1592787259 897369 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I recommend pstops, it's probably the best solution unless you generated the postscript file yourself < 1592787754 350080 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, pstops did the trick :-D < 1592788729 158696 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found a copy of some old #esoteric memories on my hard disk: rano's toy compiler called bcompiler, buu's buubot2 and buubot3, and most importantly, simcop's Farnsworth interpreter < 1592788826 973396 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get the latter from CPAN: https://metacpan.org/release/Language-Farnsworth < 1592789030 389383 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think the other two fell off the internet < 1592789045 758734 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though of course there might be mirrors somewhere < 1592789087 159719 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :does Farnsworth count as an esolang? < 1592789133 201409 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a toy language, that might be enough to make it esoteric > 1592789706 245902 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Farnsworth14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74213 5* 03B jonas 5* (+1078) 10simcop's Farnsworth language > 1592790563 895076 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Farnsworth14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74214&oldid=74213 5* 03B jonas 5* (+571) 10 < 1592792391 997459 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592794196 468923 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there common formats for storing halftone patterns? I have an idea about applying halftoning to a input file in the separations output format, and to produce a output file in the same format but with the halftoning applied. It might or might not change the resolution, and might or might not change the set of separations (one reason they might change is in case you are doing CcMmYK printing). < 1592794587 210284 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think those are usually stored mostly temporarily and in whatever format the printer accepts, since the halftoning you use will depend on the printer < 1592794797 437258 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know that, although using printer-specific formats is probably only useful if the halftoning is implemented in the printer, isn't it? < 1592795205 436851 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no, I don't think so. the printer-specific format can contain a compressed bitmap form of the halftoned images, already halftoned, plus possibly some text, in which case the printer needn't implement halftoning, only decoding the bitmap and rendering text < 1592795213 787449 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be the case for at least old matrix printers < 1592795242 639774 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and possibly also some old laser printers too, from before they started to put hundreds of megabytes of RAM into them < 1592795274 758026 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it's possible that laser printers intrinsically need that much RAM because they have to print quickly and so need to render a whole page in memory before printing, < 1592795307 516702 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike inkjets and matrix printers, which can print line by line or in even smaller granularity as long as the data comes in the order corresponding to physical movements of the hand < 1592795311 466195 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/hand/head/ < 1592795328 654415 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so make that old inkjets < 1592797899 54601 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1592798188 415161 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, of course if they are already halftoned then you will convert it to the printer format < 1592800322 557577 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know if it is common or even if it is sometimes done at all to print different separations at different resolutions? < 1592800373 209942 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Currently, the "separations output format" that I made up only supports one resolution for all separations on a page.) < 1592801137 443022 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592806142 359463 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:7070:6e78:e036:4907 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592809321 937872 :LKoen!~LKoen___@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592810991 375889 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1592812521 375004 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592812592 589373 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1592812692 481908 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1592813338 871544 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1592813955 606171 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :showing Creative Commons's round icons for the cc-by license to indicate that the content is under the cc-by-nc-nd 4.0 license: SO FUCKING USEFUL, WEBPAGE! are you trying to DELIBERATELY TRAP SOMEONE INTO AN ACCIDENTAL COPYRIGHT VIOLATION? < 1592814052 190635 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi! < 1592814094 487894 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1592814171 620564 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1592814334 290803 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it uses a webfont to display the icons < 1592814458 54514 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1592814474 470770 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@nat-pool-13-124.soborka.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592814722 5906 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1592814737 968821 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1592814810 40632 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think i've grown to like VAXen too much < 1592814812 290783 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, I'll just write to their contact address < 1592814821 866788 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm contemplating geting a physical copy of the architecture manual < 1592814850 416036 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: print one in a copy shop and spiral bind it < 1592814866 399685 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@nat-pool-13-124.soborka.net PART :#esoteric < 1592814872 521468 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: but real thing is more fun (and probably cheaper if I get it alongside a bunch of other manuals) > 1592814873 406635 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Farnsworth14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74215&oldid=74214 5* 03Keymaker 5* (+24) 10Fixed code tags. < 1592814938 680629 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :found an offer that includes PDP-11 manuals alongside it which is a fun bonus < 1592814993 91645 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1592815010 977849 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1592815027 994814 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: if I plan to use any of the manuals for extended periods of time i'll probably print-shop it to protect the manuals < 1592815032 556257 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1592815091 476926 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :architecture itself has turned out to be really fun to work with < 1592815099 927167 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not so much to emulate tho D:) > 1592815290 849709 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tandem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74216&oldid=73988 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (-13) 10Example sections: make more consistent and remove excessively deep nesting. < 1592817729 357388 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592817958 775529 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1592818002 965270 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Klaus14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74217 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+492) 10Created page with "=== Declarative paradigm, really? === I think this language is miscategorized as declarative -- it's described in terms of statements, instructions, loading integers into reg..." > 1592818568 574752 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MAWP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74218&oldid=74173 5* 03Dion 5* (+1956) 10 > 1592818569 234308 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Klaus/Dense14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74219 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+300) 10Created page with "=== Exclamation points or periods? === The text consistently states that a track ends in an exclamation point, but in the example programs the tracks consistently end with pe..." > 1592819050 834455 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ByteByteJump14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74220&oldid=63901 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+36) 10Fix computational class. < 1592819220 817913 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1592819235 546305 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1592819301 857070 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BitBitJump14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74221&oldid=50709 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+0) 10Whatever it is, it's not an LBA. Fix cat. < 1592819492 476584 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1592819508 512058 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1592819555 75058 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[071mpr0mp214]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74222&oldid=73031 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+17) 10Fix computational class in infobox. < 1592819820 930239 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1592819838 31931 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1592820092 146309 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1592820109 208626 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1592820236 433795 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[072DP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74223&oldid=21609 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (-1) 10Fix computational class. < 1592821321 13474 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1592821335 402115 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1592821533 844643 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:BitBitJump14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74224&oldid=70053 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+1332) 10 < 1592821593 146670 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1592821606 939780 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1592822520 885821 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1592822534 928478 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1592822793 105259 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1592822810 454117 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1592822839 464918 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592822876 935976 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592823074 408285 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1592823223 370567 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Categorization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74225&oldid=73879 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+131) 10+see also Special:Categories < 1592823490 587070 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric > 1592823503 223250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Categorization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74226&oldid=74225 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+162) 10Note a point of site policy regarding caregories. < 1592824320 897341 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1592824336 204689 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1592824592 279101 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1592824608 983931 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1592824882 304023 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tandem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74227&oldid=74216 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+39) 10+cat > 1592825134 806992 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Enigma-2D14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74228&oldid=72882 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+0) 10Fix cat (I haven't actually checked computational class though) > 1592825154 182677 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Morsefuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74229&oldid=72873 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+0) 10Fix cat (I haven't actually checked computational class though) > 1592825213 904133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Wishmaster14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74230&oldid=72909 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+0) 10Fix cat (without arguing about the computational class) < 1592825522 607177 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592825644 971895 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1592825645 320562 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life > 1592825666 976109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Register Automaton14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74231&oldid=74127 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+0) 10Fix cat (I haven't actually checked computational class though) > 1592825702 485529 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07EGSHEL14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74232&oldid=70778 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (-1) 10Fix cat > 1592826308 751828 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Burro/TM2Burro.hs14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74233&oldid=73511 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+22) 10+cat > 1592826989 165637 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang talk:Categorization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74234&oldid=70383 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+236) 10/* BSM */ Approve vote, sort of < 1592827199 123143 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: rain1: on that minpoly algorithm, if you wish to review its description, here it is: https://github.com/leovt/constructible/issues/4 maybe if it’s incomprehensible your advice would neat it up for the repo’s author < 1592827203 737213 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gtg < 1592827206 854366 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 QUIT :Quit: gone too far < 1592827258 714840 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 > 1592831239 159674 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DINAC14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74235&oldid=72351 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+18) 10/* Glossary */ > 1592831264 233087 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DINAC14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74236&oldid=74235 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-4) 10/* Subpages */ cat > 1592831540 285825 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MAWP14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74237&oldid=74218 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+42) 10/* Version 0.1 */ > 1592831801 228575 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BytFuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74238&oldid=72127 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+80) 10/* New instructions */ cats.add(cats.Languages, cats.TuringComplete, cats.TuringTarpits); < 1592831820 826861 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1592831834 437794 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1592831907 177813 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Newbiefuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74239&oldid=66953 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+23) 10/* Example Program */ cat < 1592831985 541506 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1592832092 593812 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1592832105 459555 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1592832142 290284 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74240&oldid=74091 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+17) 10/* F */ > 1592832315 459201 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tandem14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74241&oldid=74227 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+30) 10/* Computational class */ cat > 1592832568 51409 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Far14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74242&oldid=57490 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+161) 10/* External resources */ cats + copy refimpl < 1592832824 188150 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1592833608 290420 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a Turing machine that writes a `1` onto its current tape cell, then moves the tape head left, then repeats this indefinitely, with the property that the tape has one more `1`s on it at each step. < 1592833625 372497 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/left/right I suppose < 1592833655 119935 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that or turn the TM around 180 degrees < 1592834073 96900 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or start the infinite tape in the middle < 1592834111 951781 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: so, what's interesting about this TM to you < 1592834340 486638 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a language, and you can't write a program that has this behaviour in that language, then that language isn't Turing-complete. < 1592834383 457614 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only observable behaviour being "it doesn't halt" < 1592834419 571349 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to know who claims Turing machines have "observable behaviour" as distinct from "unobservable behaviour". < 1592834433 185391 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :These are terms from operational semantics, not computability. < 1592834449 1585 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592834457 419559 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Turing machine is a mathematical object. < 1592834466 876767 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who is telling me there are parts of it I can't look at? < 1592834476 170649 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1592834537 914128 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi arseniiv. < 1592834923 372123 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1592834989 561581 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: In Tandem (R | S) & (S | T) is also 0, because of the overlap (S). If this messes up distributivity, well, I don't know how to fix it atm. < 1592835109 582382 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could maybe make the overlap criteria based on what is actually matched (at "runtime") rather than the labels that appear at the patterns? < 1592835205 761365 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: my incomprehensible advice would be establishing denotation semantics formally in any manner you see fit, and then runtime behavior and allowed identities would follow :D < 1592835227 453106 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, also did I guess correctly that lα → α is not 1? < 1592835259 238443 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It depends, what is α there? < 1592835271 83922 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a string < 1592835280 847670 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and l any label) < 1592835526 529166 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... 1 is an artificial rule that somehow always matches and changes nothing. If we can assume l is actually in the program somewhere then 1 is something like: (l"" -> "" | l"a" -> "a" | l"b" -> "b" | etc ad infinitum) < 1592835571 142780 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I forgot about “always matches” part < 1592835592 604914 :Banana51!~user@unaffiliated/banana51 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.6 < 1592835600 233734 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if l had a value α, then succesfully applying lα → α would mark l as modified? < 1592835692 488480 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stacks don't really get marked as modified or not; it's more that rules are considered to have succeeded or failed to match. < 1592835819 211357 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592836009 493970 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably try implementing it in Haskell and see if it clarifies anythign. < 1592836010 980375 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1592836069 240953 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. If a rule R, applied to the state s, first changes l from α to β and then from β to α (it has asteration somewhere inside), and a rule S (applied to s) changes l from α to γ, then what should happen when trying to apply R | S to s, in the deterministic mode? Should this raise an error or proceed normally? < 1592836248 783381 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ultimately I think I haven’t got yet what M(R) represents < 1592836333 331913 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :((la -> b | lb -> a)* | la -> g) should be detected as non-deterministic, I think, yes. < 1592836391 202102 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :M(R) is the set of redexes for R. < 1592836454 929648 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably just call it that. < 1592836578 508361 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be pairs (label, string), right? < 1592836596 86617 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and then L(R) should be derivable from M(R)?) < 1592836623 991546 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1592836638 561322 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1592836809 329820 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it would be a set of pairs (label, string). (Or maybe it has to be a multiset? But basically yes.) < 1592836855 350850 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :L(R) is derivable statically from R -- it's just the set of labels that appear in the patterns in R. Unlike M(R) it doesn't depend on the state. < 1592836870 179475 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the state of the object being rewritten at any particular point in execution) < 1592836892 232540 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1592836909 24768 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1592836953 482169 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: thanks < 1592837014 712322 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: Thanks for asking these questions, it's making me think about how it could be explained better and where there might be gaps < 1592837037 145222 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’ll show you implementation I’ll end with, too < 1592837049 521415 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: "Turing completeness", as I was taught it, is about whether a program can accept any language that can be recognized by a Turing machine. The Turing machine you gave neither accepts nor rejects any string, hence cannot be said to recognize any language particlularly well < 1592837083 58548 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I intend to write just the essential part, the runtime, without a parser and maybe without IO yet < 1592837897 630291 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: OK. There is a single TM that inputs a number in binary and accepts iff it is a prime number, no matter how large that number is. < 1592837924 554233 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a language and you can't write that TM in that language then that language isn't Turing complete. < 1592838078 509322 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1592838133 241457 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :My point is that, sometimes, a language is claimed to be Turing complete, and often the counterexample is a very simple Turing machine. < 1592838369 127003 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather, that I've seen the same misconceptions over and over about what makes a language Turing-complete, and I'm trying to come up with simple-to-understand counterexamples for them. > 1592838671 385558 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Boolfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74243&oldid=69886 5* 0320kdc 5* (+23) 10/* Differences from Brainfuck */ Clarify the non-existence of - with information from the Boolfuck website. < 1592838677 40193 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: “In this mode, if M(Ri | Rj) contains more than one element, an unrecoverable error to the effect of "ambiguous rewrite choice presented" occurs.” => should it be dependent not on M(Ri | Rj) having many elements? It can contain many and still not indicate Ri and Rj change the same stack? < 1592838755 4227 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, that needs to be rephrased significantly. < 1592838761 217158 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’d say, if (l, αi) ∈ M(Ri) and (l, αj) ∈ M(Rj) with αi ≠ αj? < 1592838786 305659 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(then the error) < 1592838925 507140 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If M(R) contains more than one match involving the same stack, there should be an error. > 1592838940 210832 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Boolfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74244&oldid=74243 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+29) 10/* External resources */ cat < 1592839006 598516 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for conjunction, there would be 0 instead? > 1592839109 521792 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07If the question specifies that the number of the words should be less than 3, and the number of words in your answer is larger than 3, your answer is automatically wrong.14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74245&oldid=70541 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+97) 10/* Syntax */ cats > 1592839124 711897 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07If the question specifies that the number of the words should be less than 3, and the number of words in your answer is larger than 3, your answer is automatically wrong.14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74246&oldid=74245 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+2) 10 < 1592839204 409438 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If M(Ri | Rj) is ambiguous, is M(Ri & Rj) = 0? Yes, I think so. < 1592839233 93077 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather, is Ri & Rj = 0. Yes. < 1592839267 866311 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because L(Ri) intersect L(Rj) would never be empty in that case. > 1592839346 196332 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Iflang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74247&oldid=70155 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+171) 10cats + bold > 1592840072 574440 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:COVID-1914]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74248&oldid=71394 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+47) 10unsigned > 1592840191 602238 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07COVID-1914]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74249&oldid=71393 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+110) 10/* Predecessor */ c a t s < 1592840353 555242 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1592840422 24498 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric > 1592840551 277607 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Memescript14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74250&oldid=73115 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+129) 10cats + wikitable + stub < 1592840714 68813 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :An even better counterexample TM might be one that accepts only squarewords like "abcabc". If a language can't stand up to the pumping lemma for regular languages, it definitely isn't Turing-complete. < 1592840725 570911 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes > 1592840766 438629 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SoT14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74251&oldid=73527 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+48) 10 < 1592841043 972097 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1592841514 354328 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 > 1592842269 894608 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ALT-414]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74252 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+2303) 10Add ALT-4 > 1592842305 530721 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74253&oldid=74240 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+12) 10/* A */ + [[ALT-4]] > 1592842394 360590 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74254&oldid=74111 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+81) 10/* Languages */ > 1592842539 171437 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Categorization14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74255&oldid=74226 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+73) 10/* Concurrency */ move if needed < 1592842908 775826 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592842971 839752 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tried my implementation with a push-down automaton example and it doesn’t halt :( > 1592843891 501763 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Categorization14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74256&oldid=74255 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+2) 10/* See Also */ > 1592843927 794197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07If the question specifies that the number of the words should be less than 3, and the number of words in your answer is larger than 3, your answer is automatically wrong.14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74257&oldid=74246 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* Syntax */ cat > 1592843965 596727 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nuts14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74258&oldid=71256 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-9) 10cat /* Links */ < 1592843991 719334 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah this is the error in the automaton itself :D < 1592844027 872271 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: see the last rule `Q0 -> 0 & I -> & O... -> Y` is applicable indefinitely at the end, so it applies < 1592844060 865373 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I changed it to `Q0 -> 2 & others` and that works like a charm < 1592844320 235209 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:7070:6e78:e036:4907 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1592844374 388722 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can find my partial impl here: https://hatebin.com/gnbvdqgvrh (only rule DSL and runtime, no parser, no pragmas and no modes other than the deterministic one) > 1592845928 4123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Langlang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74259&oldid=68708 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+109) 10/* halting problem solved */ cats > 1592846036 475814 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74260&oldid=72187 5* 0320kdc 5* (+959) 10/* Implementations */ Add a ByteByteJump truth-machine > 1592846039 873464 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07!!Fuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74261&oldid=69346 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+74) 10/* Hello World */ CATS > 1592846137 471119 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74262&oldid=74260 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-14) 10/* A colon semicolon */ fix > 1592846324 297995 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74263&oldid=74262 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+54) 10/* Var=Bar */ add Varigen t.mach > 1592846517 818466 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74264&oldid=74263 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+36) 10/* JUMP */ ad binary > 1592846831 604948 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:NRSRSSOMN14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74265&oldid=46385 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+55) 10unsigned > 1592846952 777379 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Quiney14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74266&oldid=54316 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-2) 10/* Computational class */ cat; see talk for itpr > 1592847035 753880 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74267&oldid=74039 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+109) 10/* 1 */ > 1592847468 510306 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74268&oldid=74267 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+158) 10/* 110010000100110110010 */ < 1592847980 387191 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592848271 663709 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1592849111 240762 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: that is not easy though. if the language doesn't fail on any of the trivial tests, most importantly if you can't implement it with a one-stack machine with finite control, nor can you simulate it with a program whose runtime is bound by a computable function of the input, then it's hard to prove that the language is not Turing-complete < 1592849161 654749 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some other stupid ways to fail, but they don't come up often about languages that people try to claim Turing-complete > 1592849375 164681 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ByteByte14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74269&oldid=19147 5* 0320kdc 5* (+1894) 10Hypothetical construction of a ByteByteJump interpreter in ByteByte. < 1592849926 985563 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it a trademark violation to show the icons for the cc-by license to indicate that the content is under the cc-by-nc-nd 4.0 license? < 1592849967 939141 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it's at least a sanity violation < 1592850054 728960 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :t20kdc: Yes, but I thought the Creative Commons icons are trademarked < 1592850153 739963 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ...well, https://creativecommons.org/policies#trademark is pretty explicitly a "yes" < 1592850224 923110 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: maybe, I don't really care about the trademark violation here, but the misleading license indicator that may make someone think that the photo is distrib'd with a permissive license when it actually isn't < 1592850271 741157 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should either put the correct indicators or remove the circular icons entirely and leave only the descriptive text and link to license that's above it < 1592850307 315603 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I agree, they should do one of those two things. < 1592850331 537465 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the trademark violation means that they can be sued if they do not comply, I think. > 1592851401 335828 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MAWP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74270&oldid=74237 5* 03Dion 5* (+45) 10 < 1592851517 76180 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shouldn’t ever read comments, I shouldn’t ever read comments, I shouldn’t ever read comments. period < 1592851517 218980 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :“COMEFROM is alive and well, and very widely used. The only change made was that the marketing guys rebranded it as ‘exception handling’.” < 1592851540 161920 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially old comments < 1592852683 912706 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :was 1205 olisted yet? < 1592852708 892318 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1592852713 419592 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1205 < 1592852716 811059 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1205: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas < 1592853055 594292 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know if any HTML viewing software (such as a web browser) has a table of contents function? < 1592853272 590571 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: hrm that's just wrong < 1592853421 452708 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: the sad truth is that come from is just a goto with the roles of labels and goto interchanged. Exceptions can be used to implement a limited form of goto. That is ignoring threaded INTERCAL, which does not match exception handling at all. < 1592853445 529673 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exceptions respect a form of dynamic scope; goto/come from don't. < 1592853500 44839 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is true is that various facets of unstructured programming are alive, more or less controlled. Exceptions are closer to the uncontrolled end of the spectrum than not. < 1592853692 940118 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes this role reversal is useful. I sometimes use COME FROM in assembly language programming. I implemented a COME FROM command in the MIXPC assembler because it can be useful for implementing jump tables. < 1592853693 163418 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never had much stock in strictly structured programming ever since I saw how "forced" a lot of things are when you disallow unstructured constructs. < 1592853725 725439 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It will be compiled into code that use goto instead of come from) < 1592853751 974962 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of come from, what happened to aspect-oriented programming? < 1592853780 161088 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that still a thing outside of property systems with update notifications/modifiers? < 1592853819 843353 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and, I guess, event systems in general) < 1592853832 312799 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I also think that unstructured constructs are useful in addition to structured constructs. < 1592853838 647701 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric : arseniiv: hrm that's just wrong => exactly! < 1592854046 396416 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I would find some arguments against the precomposed unicode character … but I found only a meagre one (in many fonts it renders almost like plain ... concatenation of dots and that’s for many people is not good, they want more space, usually NARROW NO-BREAK SPACE < 1592854053 357501 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode … < 1592854054 357317 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+2026 HORIZONTAL ELLIPSIS] < 1592854060 317345 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is my one < 1592854162 884539 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I prefer ... in fixed width fonts, … is just too short. < 1592854173 508949 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :precomposed / plain / with narrow nbsp / with nbsp: … ... . . . . . . < 1592854196 860458 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah, … in monospace makes me uncomfortable too < 1592854199 125489 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the same reason, narrow nbsp = nbsp, of course < 1592854212 319972 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ait < 1592854218 769687 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait why < 1592854219 879700 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And IRC is a monospace environment. < 1592854222 666962 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For me) < 1592854241 619402 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn’t get about narrow nbsp < 1592854243 772365 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because this is a terminal < 1592854267 498862 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, you just stated that they are same length < 1592854272 203970 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also don't like ligatures in fixed width fonts; unfortunately 2600 used ligatures in fixed width fonts, I wrote to complain, and they said they didn't have that but if they did, indeed it shouldn't use ligatures in fixed width fonts, but they still didn't fix it, anyways. < 1592854286 620510 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: they are indistinguishable :P < 1592854309 670366 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, monospace fonts screw us both on part of … and \.\s\.\s\. < 1592854325 112443 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if … was a wide character (which, for some reason, do exist. Japanese and Chinese are too popular I guess.) < 1592854335 851362 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yep space isn’t even a grapheme as there are no strokes :D < 1592854360 514314 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if you didn't use Unicode and use a better character set for fixed width text on grid based displays, can be better < 1592854364 692650 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And they don't break the invariant that each character has a corresponding integer cursor position) < 1592854378 545684 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric : maybe if … was a wide character (which, for some reason, do exist. Japanese and Chinese are too popular I guess.) => this is actually a very good proposal < 1592854412 147059 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Could you stop with these purely hypothetical exercises that assume some kind of better world... < 1592854429 913977 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I was making a better character set for this purpose. < 1592854488 31538 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicode is a blessing, because it's seeing so broad adaptation. We don't need the n+1st standard that throws us back into the heterogenic past where non-ASCII messages never looked the same for sender and receiver. < 1592854497 356984 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my friend had an intention to make a better encoding once, but then they stopped for some reason < 1592854518 522233 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even with Unicode they don't always are the same, especially with different versions sometimes < 1592854528 469917 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(such as if they change the width of the characters) < 1592854532 834968 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :emoji: the bane of unicode < 1592854543 417782 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: What was their use of the better encoding? < 1592854559 136591 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think that different encodings can be good for different uses; you can't have one good for everything) < 1592854565 92363 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: there are also all those arabic ligatures before they learned better < 1592854566 288589 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(soon in your nearest movie theater) < 1592854588 385895 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Unicode is firmly in the "good enough" category in my book. < 1592854614 121215 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah, actually I thought one of arguments against … precompose would be “that’s outdated like ā” < 1592854620 254371 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, emoji is bane of Unicode too. One thing Unicode is workable for (although emoji doesn't help it, and other things also don't help so much) is for searching many documents in many languages, although someone on this IRC suggested before "Duocode", which might be even a bit better too > 1592854643 710567 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Generic 2D Brainfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74271&oldid=68873 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+174) 10/* Examples */ cats < 1592854646 240283 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hmm I don’t particularly remember but they intended to make it cover at least a part of CJK I think < 1592854680 920417 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was an intent to use scoped modes in the text for different sub-encodings, which is all I still remember < 1592854687 362101 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if you do use Unicode, simply specifying the character code as "Unicode" is actually insufficient, for a few reasons (one of them being han unification). < 1592854850 591496 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric : all those arabic ligatures before they learned better => BTW also Turkish İ and ı which pair with ASCII i and I respectively. Poor choice for implementability of text algorithms < 1592854924 427794 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the better one would be maybe to add duplicate non-ASCII i and I. I know it adds to characters many can misplace but but but) < 1592854988 967127 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I’m very glad I don’t write in languages that use letters which are represented by these codepoints < 1592855003 810657 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately < 1592855056 327098 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :My own is UTCS, which is designed only for fix pitch text, although there are wide characters. There is both a 8-bit encoding and a 16-bit encoding. Both encodings are compatible with ASCII, and you can determine the widths of characters using a simple rule (no need for long tables). < 1592855096 516361 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The width of a character is simply the sum of the widths of the bytes that make it up (or, in the case of the 16-bit encoding, the sum of the widths of those 16-bit units).) < 1592855152 98776 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The widths of bytes are: 0x00-0x1F and 0x7F = undefined, 0xC0-0xFF = zero, 0x20-0x7E and 0x80-0xBF = one. < 1592855175 20295 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: even the emoji are probably a good thing, because the ideal alternative world where nobody embeds emojis inside text messages just doesn't exist. this way, such messages can be exchanged between different vendors and look more or less the same < 1592855219 81691 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't look the same; the icons they use are different, even though they are similar, even the minor differences sometimes they call it a problem. < 1592855229 104477 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"more or less" < 1592855240 56939 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode . . . < 1592855240 794999 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+0020 SPACE] [U+002E FULL STOP] [U+202F NARROW NO-BREAK SPACE] [U+002E FULL STOP] [U+202F NARROW NO-BREAK SPACE] [U+002E FULL STOP] < 1592855244 987517 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesh < 1592855263 207284 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I added this simulacrum to my AutoHotkey script) < 1592855295 830708 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i learned here that "invisible plus" is a thing < 1592855311 921937 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric : this way, such messages can be exchanged between different vendors and look more or less the same => yeah, though that leaves much space for grumblings anyway < 1592855316 128509 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still fail to understand why anybody would ever need that < 1592855330 596753 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, “a woman with bunny ears? really??” < 1592855346 831647 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: compromises everywhere < 1592855349 667116 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote invisible times < 1592855350 555093 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :990) "May you live in INVISIBLE TIMES." --Old Chinese proverb. (It can look confusing when written with the proper Unicode.) < 1592855363 99364 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: ^ though you know that probably way earlier < 1592855416 83973 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yes that’s really the one mature thing to say (and think), but boooriiing (no) < 1592855433 215970 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand but many don’t < 1592855510 826151 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: The same is true for all the things that are missing... no smiley with dollar symbol eyes? (I think. It's hard to be sure.) < 1592855514 142954 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: like I said, with the turkish i, we're screwed no matter what we did. Even if you had a time machine to go all the way back before telegraphs and bribed every single inventor, there's nothing you could do to handle both the latin iI and the turkish iİıI sanely, short of murdering Kemal Atatürk so his alphabet never spreads. < 1592855543 24483 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Maybe Disney would sue the Unicode consortium over this.) < 1592855571 68895 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything else, including the various cyrillic alphabets and vietnamese etc, can be fixed, but turkish i versus the rest of the world is just hopeless. < 1592855586 535652 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a version of xterm that supports the DEC technical character set directly rather than using Unicode? (You can select the DEC technical character set, but it internally converts to Unicode for font lookup, which results in some characters being missing.) < 1592855734 855872 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: here it is 🤑 < 1592855736 119103 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't know, I don't use xterm anymore (I have it installed as a fallback just in case urxvt becomes broken somehow and I need a terminal to reinstall urxvt). I didn't notice any missing characters, but if there are, you can probably modify the lookup tables in the source code of the terminal emulators to fix that. < 1592855745 56518 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my favourite thing related to the turkish I is the php bug that made it nearly unusable in turkish locales < 1592855746 901650 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :In particular, I do have the DEC technical snowman. < 1592855778 691856 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode 🤑 < 1592855780 153534 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+1F911 MONEY-MOUTH FACE] < 1592855792 94982 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a great description. < 1592855806 659477 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully it either renders on your side with a good font or doesn’t at all. At my side it’s quite terrifying black-white. In Telegram it was way nicer < 1592855814 892499 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah < 1592855835 384411 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should've realized that it's "MONEY" < 1592855909 355998 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, what php did was to lowercase every class and interface name for classloading purposes. even the included ones. this results in "class Foo implements Iterator" to try loading ıterator which it fails to find < 1592855917 139015 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the characters are not even in Unicode, so I want to convert internally to UTCS instead, which does include all of the characters in all DEC terminals, Atari, Apple, Commodore, Infocom, PC, etc. < 1592855963 918472 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is so far my specification: http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/utce < 1592855994 710120 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another thing I like about xterm is it uses bitmap fonts, so they aren't fuzzy < 1592856217 43686 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I am typing in an urxvt with my bitmap font right now (except some characters that are in neither of the two fonts I've chosen, like some emojis, might use vector fonts as a substitute, but these don't come up much on #esoteric ) < 1592856511 81991 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but these don't come up much on #esoteric => 🤔 < 1592856559 864524 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: that appears as just a double-width box, so no problem < 1592856621 634637 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :On my computer it appears as a single-width box. < 1592856761 133781 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1592856801 612966 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I don’t intend to use emoji on IRC as my client/OS is bad at them < 1592856832 738762 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also input < 1592857566 935880 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds > 1592857882 58302 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74272&oldid=74268 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1462) 10/* 110010000100110110010 */ > 1592858282 505230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07EsoKit/EsoKit.ek.math.mm14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74273&oldid=45051 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+16) 10 > 1592858350 107235 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07EsoKit/EsoKit.nsi.io14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74274&oldid=45047 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+17) 10 < 1592859563 526157 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds > 1592859995 250820 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74275&oldid=74143 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+3495) 10 > 1592860022 764658 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74276&oldid=74272 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+203) 10/* 110010000100110110010 */ < 1592860119 963528 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592861323 402167 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592864051 674604 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1592864130 675028 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592864387 812644 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ftoc 86 < 1592864389 84543 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :86.00°F = 30.00°C < 1592864547 145896 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ctof 41 < 1592864547 923727 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :41.00°C = 105.80°F < 1592865355 733572 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1592865378 908755 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592865687 284498 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1592865731 216277 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592865948 779747 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1592866046 917550 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1592866720 792808 :alhavar!~alhavar@89.36.224.252 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592867443 462198 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1592867479 99753 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1592867673 146066 :alhavar!~alhavar@89.36.224.252 QUIT : < 1592868037 947232 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592868439 544411 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592868833 59108 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592868934 441235 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1592868934 551086 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life > 1592869184 346778 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74277&oldid=74276 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+82) 10/* 110010000100110110010 */ < 1592870212 903585 :LKoen!~LKoen___@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1592871209 395158 :spencer__!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592871241 866509 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1592871643 297389 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1592871690 212588 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592873306 410186 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1592874530 615083 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1592874746 30169 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592874904 581345 :spencer__!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1592874920 545899 :spencer__!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592880574 721251 :spencer__!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1592880590 492149 :spencer__!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592881035 203830 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1592881470 983728 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592881522 170003 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1592883194 8191 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1592884144 831530 :spencer__!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1592884158 222334 :spencer__!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592884654 978143 :spencer__!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1592884670 920256 :spencer__!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric > 1592885143 964310 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07International Phonetic Esoteric Language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74278&oldid=74139 5* 03Bigyihsuan 5* (+840) 10v1.4.0 release < 1592886973 524150 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592888542 368931 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1592890334 307361 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think the graphical effects in TeXnicard are sufficient? In addition to all of the graphical effects of level 3 PostScript, it also supports alpha transparency, combining modes (min or max), a layer buffer (with eight monochrome layers used for controlling the areas of certain effects), a compositing buffer, and custom compositing modes (definable as arbitrary functions of three inputs). < 1592890435 112542 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the custom compositing modes actually can have two outputs, one being the normal output and the second output used for saturation adjustment. Furthermore, you can define up to four separations in addition to CMYK (for a total of eight). < 1592892450 40871 :spencer__!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1592892470 18589 :spencer__!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592893420 580522 :spencer__!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1592893441 895030 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592895719 436463 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1592896249 536763 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592896516 45502 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592898435 557605 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: is that serious (like one of these stupid mobile phones where you can't install sane software) or is it ironic like when windows 10 users complain that their OS is bad at emoji? < 1592898461 517393 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1592898518 222328 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can always just make HackEso say the emojis for you < 1592898605 120537 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if you can run an IRC client, you can probably copy-paste characters from a webpage too, unless it's some really crazy apple phone version < 1592898857 142733 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: more or less. Win7 has no capability to make composite fonts AFAIK, so I can’t make a font to include colorful emoji, and maybe of the kind I like more of them all, and also include other fancy unicode stuff and readable latin, cyrillic and greek. I heard Win10 has composite font support but I’m reluctant to upgrade still < 1592898917 193395 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don’t want to search in all places all the stuff I’ll need to switch off in Win10 and another stuff to make it more like Win7 in a couple of details and UI < 1592898939 110391 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it would magically set up this way I’d upgrade < 1592899050 498972 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: doesn't it still run libraries like Pango that automatically substitute fonts in your browser? < 1592899056 645037 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :about input, you’re right, and I even may add to my AutoHotkey script, though it would need to be autogenerated and it wouldn’t be that useful without search < 1592899098 494516 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes, it should be able, though I didn’t test what does Firefox use in Win7 < 1592899114 183433 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don’t like web clients < 1592899172 460841 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they aren’t usually the most UX-y kind < 1592899187 781275 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know < 1592899195 283925 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(someone should write a sane one) < 1592899216 668604 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but the hard part is to run the server) < 1592899247 408963 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, why am I asking this? I don't want people to use emojis in IRC < 1592899365 365714 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1592899615 38891 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1592899640 154441 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate power outages < 1592899650 165698 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1592899918 983632 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone here? > 1592901219 717695 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Disan Count14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74279&oldid=61421 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+552) 10Add a very strong version of what ais523 said, and also a completely alternative viewpoint. < 1592901803 240269 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1592902014 889938 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Lykaina < 1592902063 253406 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am trying very hard not to be here < 1592903144 229119 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo! < 1592903318 942417 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@sorunome.de QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1592903382 908108 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tandem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74280&oldid=74241 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+293) 10Some clarification after discussion with arseniiv (but probably not enough, yet). < 1592903474 42970 :Hooloo42!Hooloovoo@sorunome.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1592903476 124040 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I am trying very hard not to be here => :D < 1592903513 3549 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric : anyway, why am I asking this? I don't want people to use emojis in IRC => I was wondering too > 1592904904 167311 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tandem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74281&oldid=74280 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+441) 10Describe two possible modes for handling nondeterminism. > 1592906188 306105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tandem/Sketch of a Tandem Interpreter14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74282 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+1669) 10Sketch a Tandem interpreter. < 1592906275 671627 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: Maybe https://esolangs.org/wiki/Tandem/Sketch_of_a_Tandem_Interpreter will help clarify things? < 1592906650 961710 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I called that "pseudo-code" but it should really be runnable if all the helper functions were defined. < 1592906859 699544 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: oh! BTW did you see my yesterday’s implementation? < 1592907138 823057 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this pseudocode is way simpler than what I’ve done with disjointness checking :D < 1592907210 50437 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, no, I now see `case intersect (labelsOf r1) (labelsOf r2) of` < 1592907247 439696 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: No, I missed that -- I don't always read the logs. Actually I'm reading the logs now and I can't seem to find it? < 1592907271 421114 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but your sketch doesn’t allow R | R = R < 1592907279 306128 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’ll find the link < 1592907307 721035 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here it is: https://hatebin.com/gnbvdqgvrh < 1592907338 82137 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I should find the place in the logs, there was something else < 1592907344 907559 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool, thanks! < 1592907471 167670 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :starts here: https://esolangs.org/logs/2020-06-22.html#lId ← there is a error in the push-down automaton example at esowiki < 1592907585 592528 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh yes, I see. Thanks for spotting that, I'll fix it. > 1592907648 355185 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tandem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74283&oldid=74281 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+0) 10/* Implementing Automata in Tandem */ Fix PDA example - thanks go to arseniiv for noticing and reporting < 1592907673 895432 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yw! < 1592907826 599674 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :As to R | R = R, you're right, my sketch fails to get that, thanks again. I'll think about how to fix it. < 1592907933 952715 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used a “world diff”, all replacements which were made by the rule, and tested their disjointness < 1592907966 831638 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I think I should have simplified things a bit < 1592908009 591302 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my code there are two different representations now I think for the same thing (such a diff and a set of redexes) < 1592908027 971835 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait they aren’t even redexes, they are (label, replacement result) pairs < 1592908046 711139 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’ll need to rename things a bit too, then < 1592908302 959575 :LKoen!~LKoen___@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592908983 301168 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : cpressey: that is not easy though. if the language doesn't fail on any of the trivial tests [...] then it's hard to prove that the language is not Turing-complete <== Such a trivial test is exactly what I was talking about though < 1592909101 355836 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :One problem with "read a string of any length on the input and accept iff it's a palindrome" is that many esolangs don't have input < 1592910202 998193 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many do have some form of output though, and for those maybe an enumeration problem would work. < 1592910307 146012 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a single Turing machine that writes each of the prime numbers on its output tape. It never halts: it is always the case that, some finite time after it has written a number, it will write another, larger number. < 1592910341 825193 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can't write a program that does this in your language, then your language is not Turing-complete. < 1592910378 463952 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592910592 281496 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even simpler: there is a TM that writes every integer onto its output tape, in binary: 0, 1, 10, 11, 100, ... < 1592910844 255529 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...so... WebAssembly is not Turing-complete? < 1592910933 15763 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know WebAssembly but, probably not, no. < 1592911014 214253 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a language can only address a fixed amount of memory, it's not Turing-complete. < 1592911046 445563 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it kinda sounds like there needs to be some sort of "good enough" rating - like a more realized set of requirements for the classification of bounded-storage-machine < 1592911077 864816 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :("boolfuck with at least 256 cells" for example) < 1592911106 600670 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is, then the requirement becomes a bit arbitrary, but... the alternatives make provability a little hard < 1592911925 719477 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1592911940 481509 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1592911977 907702 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :t20kdc: The phrase "usable for programming" is sometimes used in the esolang community, but as concepts go it is very informal. < 1592912109 617059 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The complement, "unusable for programming", might be less contentious, since there is actually an "Unusable for programming" category on the wiki. < 1592912111 798795 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously for real-world languages to be Turing-complete they need to run in an idealised environment < 1592912159 245342 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know enough about WebAssembly to know what t20kdc was referring to in that comment, some clarification would be appreciated < 1592912164 945358 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure what that means. Python is Turing-complete even if no one ever runs a Python program ever. < 1592912181 753585 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592912181 753651 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arcorann: To summarize: Pointer size. < 1592912192 271954 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1592912208 480593 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1592912243 5598 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1592912327 89227 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1592912354 116718 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1592912390 536252 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1592912684 847155 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I was trying to say was that if WebAssembly was modified to allow arbitrary addressing of memory (abstracting the restriction away) then it would become Turing-complete, but this isn't necessary for real-world programming > 1592912816 534831 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Vera98x 5* 10New user account > 1592913011 79400 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74284&oldid=74209 5* 03Vera98x 5* (+118) 10 > 1592913069 698741 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74285&oldid=74284 5* 03Vera98x 5* (-22) 10 < 1592913226 913600 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :A variant of WebAssembly which does not limit the number of bits that can appear in a pointer at runtime is probably Turing-complete, yes. < 1592913537 969157 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 > 1592914304 890606 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07VES++14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74286 5* 03Vera98x 5* (+1506) 10Created page with "VES++ has included the most common languages from west-europe (and for some random reason the turkish language is also included). This way many people are able to understand a..." > 1592914564 646684 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74287&oldid=74253 5* 03Vera98x 5* (+12) 10 < 1592914586 813924 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1592915221 124187 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1592915235 225518 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1592915273 887404 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592915507 170255 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1592915610 257370 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1592916562 916048 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell cpressey I simplified my impl at https://hatebin.com/gzvnokaiqj < 1592916563 58977 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1592917800 211264 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1592917872 612344 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitshit14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74288&oldid=74177 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+66) 10/* External resources */ cats > 1592917935 798993 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07VES++14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74289&oldid=74286 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+7) 10 < 1592918313 677667 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: cool. lambdabot didn't notify me. had to read it in the log :) < 1592918335 111184 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh NOW it did. Because I mentioned its name? < 1592918701 120406 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1592918708 245235 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’m usually not notified too < 1592918713 550382 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e is that normal? > 1592918769 570201 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07VES++14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74290&oldid=74289 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+530) 10 < 1592918820 407001 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It notified me yesterday without me mentioning its name > 1592919013 868895 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07VES++14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74291&oldid=74290 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+109) 10/* Hello World */ < 1592919076 450359 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember being notified once or twice but don’t think I know the reason it was so > 1592919092 76945 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Robolang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74292&oldid=69237 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+6) 10/* Commands */ you missed one > 1592919169 838882 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Robolang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74293&oldid=74292 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-6) 10/* Commands */ you mistyped one > 1592919230 551671 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Robolang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74294&oldid=74293 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+17) 10/* Interpreter */ cats + (how is this pseudonatural?) > 1592919544 740439 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:0x29A14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74295&oldid=8312 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+57) 10unsigned > 1592919864 824895 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Subleq14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74296&oldid=71121 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+114) 10Ruthlessly edit the first section. > 1592919922 955702 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Object disoriented Turing-completeness proof14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74297&oldid=31645 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+29) 10cat > 1592920017 874535 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Subleq14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74298&oldid=74296 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+2) 10 > 1592920273 597526 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07LOLA14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74299&oldid=31584 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+29) 10/* External link */ cat > 1592920500 522483 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tandem/Sketch of a Tandem Interpreter14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74300&oldid=74282 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+47) 10 > 1592920594 772255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Disan Count14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74301&oldid=60707 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+2) 10/* Algorithm */ > 1592920657 133058 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07EsoInterpreters14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74302&oldid=67303 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+30) 10/* Main table */ cat > 1592921984 332876 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/AllTheCats14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74303&oldid=74045 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-48) 10/* Derivatives */ < 1592922123 333193 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1592922135 553337 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1592922370 592260 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Subleq14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74304&oldid=74298 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+327) 10More ruthless editing. < 1592922395 144897 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1592922408 514594 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1592922596 91018 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74305&oldid=74277 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+189) 10/* 1 */ > 1592922700 903976 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[071+/Snippets14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74306&oldid=73317 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+13) 10 > 1592922832 850559 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Subleq14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74307&oldid=74304 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+105) 10Example code in triples; rephrase < 1592923013 122315 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1592923620 954208 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1592923635 202917 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1592923794 883305 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74308&oldid=74275 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-2445) 10 < 1592923903 510226 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1592923916 38289 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1592923934 488019 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Processor/114]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74309&oldid=48948 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+72) 10/* Implementations */ cats > 1592924013 282327 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Subleq14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74310&oldid=74307 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+180) 10De-sugar "Hello, world!" example. > 1592924767 936119 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Subleq14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74311&oldid=74310 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (-1307) 10Remove sugar unneeded for example. Move implementation links to external resources. > 1592924848 189016 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Subleq14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74312&oldid=74311 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+0) 10/* External resources */ Fix nested list > 1592925028 74264 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74313&oldid=74305 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+77) 10/* Commands */ > 1592925200 23087 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ttyped14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74314&oldid=46812 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+159) 10 > 1592925215 969544 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ttyped14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74315&oldid=74314 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* External resources */ > 1592925232 387354 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* 10moved [[02Ttyped10]] to [[TTyped]]: Fix title > 1592925267 958278 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07(HA)pple waITING14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74318&oldid=73075 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+5) 10 > 1592925355 186923 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Billiards14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74319&oldid=50919 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+132) 10cats > 1592925448 275005 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Number-rock14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74320&oldid=45110 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10 > 1592925462 306080 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Subleq14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74321&oldid=74312 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+948) 10Sketch Turing-completeness proof (using Minsky machines). Happy for someone to fill in more details here. < 1592925720 991635 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic > 1592925728 94732 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/InputOnlyLangs14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74322&oldid=74000 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+21) 10 < 1592925734 238533 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1592925992 79606 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1592926008 505972 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1592927126 806249 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 > 1592927452 67204 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74323&oldid=74313 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-189) 10/* State and Main */ > 1592927492 517116 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07State and Main14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74324 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1857) 10add State and Main > 1592927529 227829 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74325&oldid=74287 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+21) 10/* S */ + [[State and Main]] > 1592927591 713434 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74326&oldid=74254 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+79) 10/* Languages */ < 1592927873 941440 :grumble!~Thunderbi@freenode/staff/grumble NICK :rawr > 1592929326 347563 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RELATIONS14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74327&oldid=68575 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+97) 10cats > 1592930407 859626 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RELATIONS14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74328&oldid=74327 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+19) 10 > 1592931508 225136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RELATIONS14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74329&oldid=74328 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-26) 10wikify + unpipe > 1592931746 347423 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OREO14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74330&oldid=68571 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+142) 10wikify + unpipe + cats > 1592932032 21648 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Kate14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74331&oldid=59906 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+193) 10unpipe,wikify,cats > 1592932054 153381 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OREO14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74332&oldid=74330 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+18) 10/* Hello World program */ cat > 1592932203 738954 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07AAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! Turing-completeness proof14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74333&oldid=71472 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+29) 10 > 1592932239 227815 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07AAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74334&oldid=71409 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+44) 10/* See Also */ > 1592932636 728678 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Shishkirism14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74335&oldid=66712 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+55) 10wikify + cats > 1592933000 964213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Shishkirism14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74336&oldid=74335 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+10) 10 > 1592933011 808919 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Shishkirism14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74337&oldid=74336 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+2) 10/* FizzBuzz program */ > 1592933474 701577 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RANDo14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74338&oldid=57219 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+422) 10 < 1592933660 373215 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:9585:1783:b4d:2d50 JOIN :#esoteric > 1592933695 633187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SLOBOL (2005 language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74339&oldid=42605 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+23) 10page.Categories.Add(Category.Load("Languages")); > 1592933824 767809 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Object-Oriented Brainfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74340&oldid=46029 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+105) 10cats+wip > 1592934377 358903 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OISC14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74341&oldid=62270 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+4) 10 > 1592934394 434758 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OISC14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74342&oldid=74341 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+8) 10 > 1592934523 44668 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FROM HERE TO THERE14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74343&oldid=71669 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+18) 10/* Computational class */ cat < 1592934661 951394 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-153.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric > 1592934696 98542 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Alacrity14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74344&oldid=49634 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+22) 10/* External resources */ const category cat("languages"); > 1592935223 770115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07J.A.V.A.14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74345&oldid=55931 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+69) 10 < 1592935481 368413 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :normal, mhmm < 1592935601 682381 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: you shouldn't have to mention it by name, but you have to say something on a channel it's in < 1592935617 254410 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or, maybe, message it privately? dunno.) < 1592935819 383069 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah, I usually ask lambdabot @messages, though if I wouldn’t need to send it each time (as I thought) it would be very nice! Now that you said I just need to say hi here, that’s way better < 1592937171 774653 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592937404 551571 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1592938142 459329 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592938269 881181 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-153.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages-louder < 1592938269 881241 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any messages > 1592939062 973467 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MAWP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74346&oldid=74270 5* 03Dion 5* (+35) 10 < 1592939065 487898 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric > 1592939096 559083 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MAWP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74347&oldid=74346 5* 03Dion 5* (+63) 10 < 1592939537 602917 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages-louder < 1592939537 602976 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any messages < 1592939563 60860 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you approach the following?: for a positive integer n, find a pair of positive integers a, b such that n = a^2 b and b is square-free? < 1592939628 260789 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there will not be that many possible values of a so I would check a=1,2,..,floor(sqrt(n)) < 1592939653 762326 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the right way? < 1592939667 972972 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a concern today about implementing stack-based effective values for asm2bf < 1592939673 235211 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the author of that constructible number Python module uses this for economy of future computations, I think: adding √b should be better than adding √n) < 1592939692 67562 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_of_an_integer I found this < 1592939694 244291 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is as follows - the stack internally looks like 0 5 1 6 1 7 1 [0]... when there are 5, 6 and 7 pushed < 1592939710 694710 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, how to extract the nth element from the end from this data structure < 1592939730 611177 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully without relying on more than two zero cells after the stack end < 1592939755 183699 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Currently, no feasible (polynomial time) algorithm is known for recognizing squarefree integers or for computing the squarefree part of an integer. In fact it may be the case that this problem is no easier than the general problem of integer factorization. < 1592939757 9642 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : :1:10: error: parse error on input ‘,’ < 1592939770 287270 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: something like that is written but there is a todo try better. I suggested precomputing decompositions for a bunch of small n’s but I have no idea if it’s actually useful < 1592939771 580543 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if N is known at compile time, that's easy, but this problem has been troubling me for some time now with variable arguments < 1592939846 643894 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose if you have a list of 100 primes, you can pull the square part of those primes off < 1592939864 791425 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then if you have anything left use a slower algorithm for it, but you can start after prime 100 < 1592939883 341095 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :give p it's fast to find the biggest r, p^r | n i think < 1592939885 713096 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: w-wait I think b from that decomposition doesn’t relate anyhow directly to the radical? < 1592939926 523270 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :N = a^2 b, b = N/a^2 = rad(N) doesn't it? < 1592939942 836110 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example rad (4 ⋅ 9) = 6 but b = 1 < 1592940030 511488 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh shit < 1592940050 984116 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it seems b shouldn’t give us any hints how to compute rad?.. We have rad n = lcm(rad a, b) though if I’m not mistaken < 1592940084 594482 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as we definitely have rad b = b, yes < 1592940301 245901 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Due to something I was working on (Digi-RGB), there is the need to compute the square root and squarefree core in O(n) time, although the squarefree core is known to be one of four possibilities, and the input number is known to be less than an implementation-defined maximum. < 1592940365 214242 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the four possibilites? < 1592940367 586973 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Additionally, if it is possible to do, the computation may begin before the input number is known. < 1592940397 243529 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: The four possibilities are 1, 3, 5, and 10. < 1592940403 96426 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK! < 1592940475 9813 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: the radical page though gave me a hint I should look for a square-free part. I even found something, let’s see… < 1592940503 602657 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 already named that though, while I searched < 1592940517 79861 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose the radical helps you find the square-part very fast < 1592940536 107812 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :via gcd(rad^(2r), n) < 1592940810 148174 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-153.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: getting the square part of a number? hmm... that's either easy or hard, but I can't remember which. I should look it up. < 1592940904 557447 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :“No algorithm is known for computing any of these square-free factors which is faster than computing the complete prime factorization. In particular, there is no known polynomial-time algorithm for computing the square-free part of an integer, nor even for determining whether an integer is square-free.[1]” where [1] = Adleman, Leonard M.; Mccurley, Kevin S. "Open Problems in Number Theoretic Compl < 1592940904 773741 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :exity, II". Lecture Notes in Computer Science: 9 < 1592941009 278946 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note in Digi-RGB, the input number will effectively be given in unary, and you may read it up to twice.) < 1592941247 827621 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OEIS gives funny a(n) = rad n / a(n / rad n) for the squarefree part < 1592941433 919014 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-153.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: ok, then I don't have to look it up < 1592941470 303817 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-153.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: note that there is an algorithm to find the squarefree part of a polynomial IIRC < 1592941502 410743 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-153.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can of course always try a full prime decomposition, that tends to work well for non-large numbers < 1592941511 571474 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-153.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are decent implementations for it < 1592941669 381993 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-153.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you have a part that you can't factorize, check if it's a square, in which case you know the answer < 1592941827 51856 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: is searching for integer square root of an exact square faster than trying to decompose it without checking if it’s a square? < 1592941838 33195 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://mathoverflow.net/questions/16098/complexity-of-testing-integer-square-freeness has some rather discouraging things to say about this > 1592941839 649856 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74348&oldid=74323 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+80) 10/* 110010000100110110010 */ > 1592941876 648034 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GORBITSA14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74349&oldid=74204 5* 03Geek Joystick 5* (+1) 10/* Implementations */ > 1592941889 266334 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GORBITSA14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74350&oldid=74349 5* 03Geek Joystick 5* (-1) 10/* Implementations */ < 1592941982 811921 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually there are other restrictions in the case of Digi-RGB too, for example, it is known that the input number will always be a multiple of four. < 1592942214 249877 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-153.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: yes, taking square root of an integer is very fast < 1592942237 61183 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-153.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes, if you think your number is likely square, you can try that first before trying to decompose it < 1592942292 978032 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What reasons do you have to needing to compure squarefree cores? < 1592942489 467688 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: in the algorithm for taking sqrt of constructible numbers, one frequently needs to know if a rational number is a perfect square (and what’s its square root), but there would be slightly less computations afterwards if one instead asks about this decomposition < 1592942533 204118 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 QUIT :Quit: gone too far < 1592943762 483896 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1592943797 741367 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it easy to check for a square though? < 1592943975 618368 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. I believe it can be computed in O(n) though, since you can start counting 1, and then count 3 more, count 5 more, count 7 more, count 9 more, etc. < 1592943987 650059 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about O(1), though. < 1592944006 929105 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: what if the square is multiplied by 2038074743? > 1592945733 1992 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Solo14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74351&oldid=71279 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1115) 10implementer < 1592945994 408896 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1592946122 246009 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1592946175 476489 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds > 1592946697 43003 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74352&oldid=74348 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+350) 10/* 110010000100110110010 */ > 1592946709 778832 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74353&oldid=74352 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+31) 10/* One-time cat program */ < 1592948393 474546 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1592949598 337660 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1592949616 20391 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592950314 846968 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1592951083 14475 :Gar!6eae86da@110-174-134-218.tpgi.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1592951478 356884 :APic!apic@apic.name QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1592951523 669970 :Gar!6eae86da@110-174-134-218.tpgi.com.au QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1592951734 464153 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-mylhvyqodmqgpzou QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1592951800 152945 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-epajfpkkxbsctevr JOIN :#esoteric < 1592952839 476971 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592952871 725398 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1592952894 520703 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592953300 989068 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1592953306 963360 :spencer__!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592954174 489432 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1592954687 464411 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1592954991 647080 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592955109 420935 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1592955367 5069 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592955517 966998 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1592955517 967048 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1592956007 390996 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:552:cfdf:81ab:e29e QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1592956026 462869 :Hooloo42!Hooloovoo@sorunome.de QUIT :Quit: Temporarily refracted into a free-standing prism. < 1592956137 403419 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1592956223 883729 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@sorunome.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1592956872 237116 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:9585:1783:b4d:2d50 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1592957205 336816 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1592957581 478080 :LKoen!~LKoen___@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1592958641 212842 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds > 1592959111 833237 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rfghjy14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74354&oldid=73457 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+63) 10 > 1592959154 997790 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rfghjy14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74355&oldid=74354 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1) 10 < 1592960417 514641 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592960437 421334 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1592960586 759519 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1592961899 392148 :spencer__!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1592961989 304186 :spencer__!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592961989 446868 :spencer__!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1592962002 458677 :spencer__!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592962346 81488 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1592962372 928559 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592962527 189661 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1592962577 959809 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1592962852 966290 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1592962882 292058 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1592963368 237168 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1592963382 356169 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1592965214 533845 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1592965681 948410 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1592966085 134312 :APic!apic@apic.name JOIN :#esoteric < 1592967645 478110 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1592968168 586233 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Hello Dear Very Confidential < 1592968168 731048 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: he's a reddit troll/ chatterbot? why?) < 1592968181 117414 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: close, it's a subject from a spam mail < 1592968181 338079 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: do you follow? map requires a list. the second fastest way to show your scifi fnord witness or mormon or something? though they < 1592968434 704191 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1592968660 119374 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I tried for a while to figure out what "Observed:" means on that website. < 1592968692 653759 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eventually I looked at the German word, Beobachtet, and I guess it means a person who's "watching" your puzzle or something. < 1592968695 545208 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, context? < 1592968709 713481 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://logic-masters.de/Raetselportal/Raetsel/zeigen.php?chlang=en&id=0003NX < 1592968736 695823 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Only because you were commenting on something related to that website's URLs the other day.) < 1592968947 193302 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592968975 264883 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: This is more about grammar (-ing vs. -ed), isn't it? < 1592968991 600526 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess so. < 1592969008 636611 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I don't find "beobachtet" any clearer than the english translation < 1592969012 817931 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :At first I thought it was page views, and then I thought it was something like a person recording themselves solving a puzzle so you can be sure they weren't cheating, or something. < 1592969032 413393 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway maybe it's just confusilating. < 1592969275 489271 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( they also translated "views" as "Ansichten" which I would usually interpret as "view" in the sense of a personal interpretation of something. < 1592969278 554231 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1592969282 649631 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In the forum.) < 1592969334 950913 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm struggling to find a good word fort *that*. < 1592969344 563145 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :-t < 1592969406 400769 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess "Abrufe" is the established term, even though it's technical (focussing on requests rather than the fact that they're usually displayed somewhere) < 1592969484 654946 :spencer__!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1592969504 949242 :spencer__!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592969507 546196 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How should this library support a whole bunch of data types? < 1592969551 601338 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say int x; OPT_INT(&x), int64_t x; OPT_INT64(&x); and so on with UINT64, unsigned long, etc. < 1592969567 9825 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it should take a scanf-style format string or something and let scanf do the work? < 1592969637 79645 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://logic-masters.de/Raetselportal/Suche/erweitert.php clarifies. It has the option to search for puzzles that are observed/watched ("beobachtet") by more than a given number of people. No clue what that does though... notify you of new solvers? < 1592969651 997995 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously I will not register just to find out. < 1592969691 301232 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It suppots all of < <= = >= = < 1592969693 758718 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very thorough. < 1592969711 601593 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's good that they have both strict and nonstrict inequality, since the number of solvers is real. < 1592969798 900912 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm missing a negation < 1592969824 921744 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also like that = is the default < 1592969850 439820 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should solve my puzzles and then register in order to rate it at 120% goodness points. < 1592969859 777057 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, "toroidal". Toroidal Hashiwokakero could be confusing. < 1592969859 893608 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine you're really into laboriously solving sudoku puzzles by hand. < 1592969897 70015 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1592969925 401791 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find Sudokus hard in an unsatisfying way. There's too much information to track for my small brain; I'm more of a fan of visual patterns. < 1592970012 86048 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was secretly imagining something more along those lines. < 1592970072 608945 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't look at a Sudoku and just see all the 1s (or whatever digit); I have to painstakingly scan all squares to find them. < 1592970083 54552 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh man. The actual way you're supposed to tell whether sscanf matched the entire input string is with %n? < 1592970085 125814 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And finding missing numbers is worse. < 1592970099 169878 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much for the scanf idea. < 1592970116 250732 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe so, yes. sscanf is a bit of a pain. < 1592970124 434921 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much for that. < 1592970166 515875 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should just support intmax_t and call it a day. < 1592970173 923584 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or: Support nothing and call it a day. < 1592970277 905853 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1592970285 863276 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1592971169 242301 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a problem: 7 people solved my puzzle, so I'm pretty sure it's solvable. But I (and a person who wrote up their reasoning) is stuck on how to make a particular inference. < 1592971176 41574 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/is/am/ < 1592971189 966383 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or something, that grammatical situation is obviously impossible to deal with correctly.) < 1592971211 271839 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to submit the puzzle to be solved by people but I don't know what to do about this one step. < 1592971337 194728 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@nat-pool-13-124.soborka.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592971372 204351 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... just nope. < 1592971438 353533 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :My SAT solver tells me it's true, so who needs anything else? < 1592972157 816352 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it guaranteed in Linux that getauxval(AT_EXECFN) will exist and have some string value? < 1592972526 449183 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you may break tools like valgrind < 1592972556 806160 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though by the looks of it, that sets AT_EXECFN, but to argv[0] rather than the full path?) < 1592972616 895740 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :AT_EXECFN is already a relative path. < 1592972638 518094 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want an alternative to argv[0] that's reliable, since argv[0] can just be a null pointer. < 1592972672 845477 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :LD_SHOW_AUXV=1 valgrind sleep 1 2>/dev/null --> [...] AT_EXECFN: sleep [...] < 1592972725 425905 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it shows an absolute path without valgrind in that case, interesting. < 1592972729 124632 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does the Wikipedia article about printing registration have a "see also" link that links to the Japanese wikipedia? < 1592972756 82961 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` cd /bin; LD_SHOW_AUXV=1 ./sleep 0 | grep EXECFN < 1592972756 869313 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :AT_EXECFN: ./sleep < 1592972760 844413 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` LD_SHOW_AUXV=1 sleep 0 | grep EXECFN < 1592972762 660443 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :AT_EXECFN: /bin/sleep < 1592972793 711825 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess this is the first argument to execve. < 1592972854 682484 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or execvp? that might explain the lack of path lookup < 1592972872 362406 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, in the non-valgrind case. < 1592972886 660494 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's populated by the kernel so I imagine it's based on execve. < 1592973090 45 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just me or did glibc printf use to be able to handle null %s and now it doesn't? < 1592973150 213126 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno? it does print (null) here < 1592973151 53898 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cc #include \n int main() { printf("%s", (char *)0); } < 1592973152 250868 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​(null) < 1592973173 136469 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1592973193 648979 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :scratch that, it actually segfaults < 1592973213 237149 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It segfaults here too. < 1592973218 623718 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they changed it at one point. < 1592973264 172998 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :printf("%s %d\n", (char *)0, 42); works fine? < 1592973282 563015 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1592973284 828877 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is gcc. < 1592973298 704521 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc optimizes printf("%s\n", ...) to puts. < 1592973302 946330 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha! < 1592973320 756264 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now that you mention it I think I've noticed this before a trillion years ago and forgot about it. < 1592973348 848203 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good thing printfing a null pointer is undefined behavior so this is fine. < 1592975142 118906 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.wothke.ch/blaster/ < 1592976649 975711 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@nat-pool-13-124.soborka.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1592976737 64666 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@nat-pool-13-124.soborka.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592981595 562324 :spencer__!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1592981631 516185 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592982777 367134 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:c9eb:32ec:4d8:8f76 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592985046 333861 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1592985246 935995 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1592985721 751135 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1592985743 512390 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1592986007 629360 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1592986022 507996 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1592986364 247385 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tandem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74356&oldid=74283 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+586) 10It's not a Kleene algebra. It might still be a semiring. > 1592986797 844977 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tandem14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74357&oldid=74356 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (-230) 10Make raw markup nicer to read, partially < 1592987175 42721 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@nat-pool-13-124.soborka.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Integer factorization using regex (with backreferences) https://yurichev.com/news/20200624_factorize_regex/ < 1592987520 845198 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1592987536 470239 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1592987768 56568 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-153.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1592987792 854812 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1592987810 934487 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1592987827 691920 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tandem14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74358&oldid=74357 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (-431) 10More of making raw markup nicer to read < 1592988094 286686 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brilliant > 1592988441 860145 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tandem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74359&oldid=74358 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+224) 10/* Algebraic properties */ Note how this will need to be fixed, even if only a semiring. Thanks to arseniiv for noticing. < 1592988460 749997 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it in thue. > 1592988580 463170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tandem14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74360&oldid=74359 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+30) 10/* Algebraic properties */ Formatting < 1592988595 689169 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you built a decently-sized tech stack on top of thue, hotswapping code would be a breeze. > 1592988754 105652 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tandem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74361&oldid=74360 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+44) 10/* Algebraic properties */ The single-asteration property is more than a conjecture; the TM example shows it. > 1592988916 106576 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tandem14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74362&oldid=74361 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+88) 10/* Algebraic properties */ Clarify < 1592989853 46206 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592990026 941252 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1592990220 942069 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1592990236 474247 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1592990499 404536 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1592990514 260433 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1592991140 505365 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592991292 989529 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1592991394 539104 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1592992403 437827 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592993341 430314 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592993835 418766 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592995690 893232 :LKoen!~LKoen___@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592996827 135368 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1592996842 984784 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1592997097 864667 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1592997112 939045 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1592997279 799603 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tandem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74363&oldid=74362 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+81) 10/* Algebraic properties */ Attempt to fix the situation by stipulating that 1 & 1 = 1. > 1592998015 635128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tandem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74364&oldid=74363 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+216) 10/* Algebraic properties */ Add informal justification. > 1592998163 533586 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tandem14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74365&oldid=74364 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+104) 10/* Notes on Asteration */ Diction and markup > 1592998219 671421 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tandem14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74366&oldid=74365 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+25) 10/* Notes on Asteration */ qualify < 1592998606 135389 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592998734 538490 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1592998777 687464 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1592999148 916563 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :RX->Y & (Q0->1 | Q3->4) == (RX->Y | Q0->1) & (RX->Y | Q3-4), but L(RX->Y | Q0->1) is not disjoint with L(RX->Y | Q3-4) so this == 0 < 1592999171 46818 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So this disjointness rule needs to be reformed in a fairly deep way < 1592999314 289931 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like & induces something that is dual to the non-determinism that | induces < 1592999362 141629 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiple options for rewriting -> non-determinism, versus conflicting options for rewriting -> impossibility < 1592999550 729365 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Q0->1 | Q0->2) versus (Q0->1 & Q0->2). We have to start looking at the RHS. We can't just use L(), we need to look at the set of redexes. < 1592999574 464339 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592999610 542465 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592999655 523862 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did it end up tata, tada, data and dada all mean different things < 1592999786 958503 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: data is an ordinary noun, dada is some modern art style -- trust modern artists to come up with stupid names, tata is a road vehicle brand name -- those all want short snappy brand names that they can write on the vehicle in a way that's easy to read from afar < 1592999806 687076 :LKoen!~LKoen___@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1592999898 895054 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tata is a road vehicle brand name -- those all want short snappy brand names that they can write on the vehicle in a way that's easy to read from afar => I meant the “bye” thing, didn’t know about this < 1592999920 890336 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1592999940 44965 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though mainly that question was for lambdabot; though I should have mentioned fungot in it to make a combo) < 1592999940 156001 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: i'll make some tc later... in a sense < 1592999987 992315 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's more complicated, obviously Tata is multiple things => https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tata < 1593000052 718756 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trucks are just what it reminded me at first < 1593000287 598207 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: As you pointed out, the algebra in Tandem is broken. I'm going to try to fix it. Since you're the only person who's implemented it, I'd welcome your feedback on this. (I've updated the article but the small change I've made so far does not go far enough.) < 1593000335 465463 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could try to fix it by making a large change to the language, but that feels unfair to the existing implementation :) < 1593000368 278210 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The large change I have in mind also does not really fit with the name "Tandem" anymore.) < 1593000373 93777 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: UI translations => there are graphical email+calendar programs where a UI label says "From:" before the sender of an email and also before the start time of a calendar event. And then the people who write UI localization tables have to figure out what to put there, or how to get their bug report to disunify or disambiguate those < 1593000373 604858 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :translatable texts through. < 1593000388 254221 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: would it mend if we consider lα → α making no change to l? < 1593000474 489341 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Luckily I haven't seen this for a while. Somehow for this job, I managed to acquire a desktop installation with no UI programs appearing in Hungarian. Not even MS Office, which is quite a miracle, because it's not as easy to change its UI language as for the rest of windows. < 1593000498 266952 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course for Firefox I have to figure out how to switch its UI back to English once every two years, because they keep changing it. < 1593000557 302956 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, lα → α already doesn't make a change? (But it is considered to succeed in matching and replacing. Would it make sense to change it to be considered a failure?) < 1593000568 597735 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(gtg lunch, will read log.) < 1593000570 299854 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox current solution => https://superuser.com/questions/488141/h/572027#572027 < 1593000571 426021 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1593000687 816127 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course now I don't have a Hungarian spell-checker in MS Office, but that's a worthy sacrifice < 1593000932 81729 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" It suppots all of < <= = >= =" equal twice? yes, that's very throrough < 1593001376 585369 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ucsx.org/ <-- after all those discussions of how to extend Unicode a few days ago, I found someone who made a proposal on how to extend Unicode's space arbitrarily < 1593001378 710354 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fixed. Now I even have a Hungarian spellchecker. < 1593001570 949924 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arcorann: nice. also, oh yeah, "ISO 10646", that's what they call the unicode-related standard, probably as a pun on "ISO 646" < 1593001625 841618 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1593001640 295643 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1593001836 231985 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arcorann: thanks for the link. ais523: ^ < 1593001897 298187 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1593001911 24788 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1593003138 623516 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Well, lα → α already doesn't make a change? (But it is considered to succeed in matching and replacing. Would it make sense to change it to be considered a failure?) => I’d then separate matching success from the set of all changes made so this could both succeed and do no changes, but I’m afraid that too could be too much for algebraic properties, I hope it isn’t > 1593003143 456960 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74367&oldid=74353 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1) 10/* Snippets */ > 1593003253 441268 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74368&oldid=74367 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+64) 10/* Commands */ > 1593003444 568381 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74369&oldid=74368 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+196) 10/* 110010000100110110010 */ > 1593003465 640146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74370&oldid=74369 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+6) 10/* Memory */ < 1593003637 940563 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I think I nailed one of uncomfortable things about great many fonts: their glyph for ∞ is too small < 1593003686 71117 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something with relative size almost like in TeX is more nice < 1593004040 811678 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1593004060 519208 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593004093 21377 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've added many things to asm2bf since the last time I was here < 1593004098 833151 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :` ls < 1593004099 570064 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​? Permission denied < 1593004101 95256 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1593004101 964189 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :asmbf-1.2.7 \ banana.txt \ bfi \ compiled_brachylog.pl \ egel-master \ egel-scripts \ egel.zip \ eGtbSgN68aHU \ just \ karma \ le \ output.b \ paste \ program \ spline \ spout \ test \ test.sh < 1593004103 4367 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is hack eso gone? < 1593004139 146253 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just laggy as usual, ok < 1593004293 241603 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, all in all, I added data labels, r5 and r6 are stable and tested, the codebase is 95% C, conditional pipelines, advanced conditional instructions (c[log op][rel op]), flag register, effective adresses, virtual instruction calls, constant preprocessor for redefining symbols, long instruction names, bit operations, snippet optimizations, error messages, bfi decimal flags, rewritten bfmake in Perl, effective adresss and stack based adressing. < 1593004293 473488 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also added the incunabulum to the repository < 1593004309 975366 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1593004327 712132 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all in all - I think so far it's amazing < 1593004438 376341 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for example a modern hello world looks like this: &string / txt "Hello World!" / @puts / movf r2, *string(r1, r0, 1) / cne r2, 0 / cout r2 / cadd r1, 1 / cjnz %puts / out 10 < 1593004482 523586 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't been updating the esolangs wiki page for a very long time, because I'm writing a developers journal about asm2bf and I plan to include all the documentation in there < 1593004518 340370 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'll link that from the wiki article? < 1593004529 428910 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1593004538 237904 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I plan on removing all the content and just linking to it < 1593004557 818590 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it has a lot of latex-specific stuff and a lot of figures, I think it's not feasible to store it on esolangs wiki < 1593004574 158085 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, that may sound ridicously, but asm2bf is slowly becoming a non-esolang < 1593004659 647256 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: especially since you have an interpreter for it that skips the whole historically motivated brainfuck phase. you might just turn it to an ordinary interpreted toy language < 1593004684 344438 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really like the architecture though < 1593004689 280549 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or compiled if you add an x86_64 backend too) < 1593004698 992602 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck has helped me innovate assembly a bit, how stupid it may sound < 1593004739 459913 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly no one is interested in abstracting brianfuck, so I'm a lone developer > 1593004923 884522 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74371&oldid=74370 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+126) 10/* Snippets */ < 1593005020 675192 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: sure, a lot of toy languages have motivations, even if it's not too recognizable from the toy language then < 1593005256 550519 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eg. komalpsz was directly motivated by pre-written programs that I wanted to try to run, scan and geo were motivated by a programming course where I was supposed to write a parser as one of the requirements, olvashato was supposed to help write homework where we had to submit a solution for the same task implemented in two different languages, < 1593005257 105708 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amicus is an educational language where the motivation was to define Hyperamicus, etc < 1593005340 481673 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : I’d then separate matching success from the set of all changes made so this could both succeed and do no changes <= lα → α already does succeed and make no changes though? (when l contains α, I mean; if it contains something else, it fails to match and makes no changes (because failing to match never makes a change)) < 1593005414 613710 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :iow I think they're already seperate: you can match and change, match and not change, or not match and not change < 1593005645 456545 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: It may help to step back. My original intent was that the rules form a Kleene algebra. The meaning for & doesn't work for that (and seems deeply broken too). A simple solution would be to make R1 & R2 mean "Apply R1 then apply R2", i.e. sequencing. Then most of the problems go away. The main problems that remain are: (a) the language should no longer be called "Tandem", and (b) you might not want < 1593005647 797156 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :to alter your interpreter that much :) < 1593005709 881320 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a partial solution to that too though: make a new language, with a different name, where it's a Kleene algebra, and leave Tandem close to as it currently is but fix it by some small patch somehow, so that it at least forms something sensible, like a semiring. > 1593005878 946507 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74372&oldid=74371 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+175) 10/* Memory */ < 1593005972 711187 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric : lα → α already does succeed and make no changes though? (when l contains α, I mean; if it contains something else, it fails to match and makes no changes (because failing to match never makes a change)) => yeah but my impl treats it as a change to make some part of the original definition work, I already forgot which one < 1593006085 728304 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one alteration would be to compute world diffs after applying the rule (so lα → α effects would be nil) but determine if the application was succesful not based on whether the diff is empty or not < 1593006117 382228 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’m not sure what identities will survive this, though < 1593006188 965468 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a way, lα → α should be considered “blocking”, as it is in the current impl, but it won’t be so in this new one < 1593006241 154999 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used Maybe in my sketch to capture whether it matched or not (Nothing indicates there was no match) - I didn't design it with the idea that you could infer that status just looking at the result of the rewriting < 1593006283 734367 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though one could maybe add another rule, lα, which succeeds iff stack[l] = α (and lα…, which succeeds if α is a prefix of stack[l]), then we nicely differentiate blocking rules lα → α and non-blocking rules lα < 1593006336 938896 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it seems your sketch is closer to what I originally intended, hm < 1593006366 122007 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lα and lα… wouldn’t replace anything in ether case) < 1593006714 473645 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1593006806 708735 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric > 1593007125 768455 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly language14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74373&oldid=68199 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+57) 10 > 1593007293 523707 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TAPASM14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74374&oldid=64376 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+32) 10 > 1593007524 196734 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TAPASM14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74375&oldid=74374 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* Example */ cat > 1593007545 314393 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TAPASM14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74376&oldid=74375 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+2) 10/* Tape Segment */ > 1593007560 333188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TAPASM14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74377&oldid=74376 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-2) 10/* Tape */ > 1593007578 807369 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TAPASM14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74378&oldid=74377 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-12) 10/* Interrupt */ > 1593007592 915865 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TAPASM14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74379&oldid=74378 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-15) 10/* Example */ rm redundant rags > 1593007609 349177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TAPASM14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74380&oldid=74379 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1) 10/* Register */ > 1593008179 71393 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74381&oldid=74372 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+463) 10/* Examples */ < 1593009210 905373 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1593009795 972766 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: Would you have any objection if I wanted to change Ri & Rj to mean "Apply Ri and, if successful, then apply Rj"? & is no longer commutative, but (instead of imposing a disjointness condition) we can observe that *if* the sets of labels of Ri and Rj are disjoint, *then* Ri & Rj commutes. < 1593010056 247123 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@172.242.0.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593010281 426165 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: no, that’s cool > 1593010460 788023 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74382&oldid=74381 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+11) 10/* Commands */ < 1593010762 54050 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1593010927 103707 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74383&oldid=74382 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-3594) 10/* 110010000100110110010 */ > 1593010965 50449 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0711001000010011011001014]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74384 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+3731) 10Created page with "'''110010000100110110010''' is an esolang by [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow]]. ==Memory== 110010000100110110010 uses data (initialized to an right-unbounded infinite tap..." > 1593010999 594821 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74385&oldid=74325 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+31) 10/* Non-alphabetic */ + [[110010000100110110010]] > 1593011027 530617 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74386&oldid=74326 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+116) 10/* Languages */ < 1593011152 847225 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@172.242.0.73 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1593011198 924737 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@172.242.0.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593011279 249272 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@172.242.0.73 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1593011323 424872 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Asvi14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74387&oldid=73196 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+46) 10/* Implementations */ cats < 1593011329 884597 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@172.242.0.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593011375 900516 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@172.242.0.73 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1593011392 911129 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@172.242.0.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593011698 943847 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1593011788 863685 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593011807 795676 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really have no idea why my internet is so shit I reconnect every 30 minutes or so\ < 1593011815 817856 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@172.242.0.73 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1593011816 39329 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what does it say < 1593011820 957665 :FraterEST!~adrianbib@172.242.0.73 JOIN :#esoteric > 1593011948 221960 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Baba is program14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74388&oldid=68939 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+83) 10 > 1593011965 105988 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Code is eso14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74389&oldid=73006 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+100) 10 > 1593012068 128412 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07CJam-Flavored Underload14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74390&oldid=57119 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+29) 10/* Interpreter */ cat < 1593012079 87816 :FraterEST!~adrianbib@172.242.0.73 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1593012095 888104 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@172.242.0.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593012110 809884 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: thanks, it's surprisingly undisruptive (none of the example programs need to change, for instance) and seems to make it a lot cleaner. < 1593012119 797540 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@172.242.0.73 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1593012176 30716 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1593012508 67999 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: okay I’ll make my impl compatible after a while then! > 1593012627 438895 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Three Star Programmer14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74391&oldid=71623 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-2) 10/* Variants */ golf further < 1593012849 417811 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1593013161 898022 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@172.242.0.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593013190 2139 :LKoen!~LKoen___@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric > 1593013588 353370 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Syms14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74392&oldid=51200 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+139) 10unpipe + link + catts > 1593013706 831498 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Category theory14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74393&oldid=60667 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+6) 10/* Introduction */ > 1593013887 521867 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitdeque14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74394&oldid=60911 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+160) 10/* Computational Class */ cats + links > 1593013897 978904 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitdeque14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74395&oldid=74394 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* Computational Class */ < 1593013979 768871 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: Connection closed < 1593014301 949473 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1593014500 876516 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-200-113.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1593014712 651077 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@172.242.0.73 PART :#esoteric < 1593015539 560474 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1593015758 547165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bigspace14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74396&oldid=72256 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+135) 10 > 1593015872 275124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Clusterfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74397&oldid=31016 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+9) 10/* Current (Unfinished) Implementation */ < 1593017598 323874 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1593017667 997578 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric > 1593019195 567241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Microjump14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74398 5* 03Emerald 5* (+134) 10Created page with "Microjump is a minimization of a [[Jumpmin|minimization]]. Details of current work are at [[Talk:Jumpmin]]. Extra help is appreciated." > 1593019286 191234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Microjump14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74399&oldid=74398 5* 03Emerald 5* (+19) 10 < 1593020222 867065 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1593020351 69788 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@nat-pool-13-124.soborka.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1593022145 49086 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-73.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric > 1593022742 40094 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Hakerh400/What we could do if we could solve the halting problem14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74400 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+11642) 10Created page with "In this article the author provides his opinion about the halting problem and what people could do if they find a way to solve in in finite time. == What is the halting probl..." > 1593022763 926826 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Hakerh40014]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74401&oldid=74053 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+131) 10 > 1593022926 619680 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Hakerh400/What we could do if we could solve the halting problem14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74402&oldid=74400 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+2) 10 < 1593023185 915950 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...summary of that... interesting page... so, to summarize, if we had a Haltino, literally any question expressable as a Turing machine could be solved via the same strategy as expressed by the hash thing, breaking all computable encryption. < 1593023225 87854 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so long as one at least knew enough about the plaintext to determine if some output is or is not likely the plaintext) < 1593023444 431877 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1593023501 879040 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric > 1593023758 813646 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Hakerh400/What we could do if we could solve the halting problem14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74403&oldid=74402 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+1) 10 < 1593023834 993771 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1593023840 273643 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1593024229 440105 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593025851 354441 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1593025875 411207 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric > 1593027424 393378 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:DeybisMelendez14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74404 5* 03DeybisMelendez 5* (+14) 10Created page with "Creator of Ni." > 1593027587 685450 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Clusterfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74405&oldid=74397 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+26) 10 > 1593027628 35631 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NARchy14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74406&oldid=73464 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+23) 10/* Plugins */ cat > 1593027671 179340 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07No14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74407&oldid=74190 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* External resources */ < 1593027944 725049 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1593030848 863229 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07International Phonetic Esoteric Language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74408&oldid=74278 5* 03Bigyihsuan 5* (+2) 10/* A note on GETIDX, SETIDX, GETLIM, SETLIM */ > 1593030891 682717 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07International Phonetic Esoteric Language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74409&oldid=74408 5* 03Bigyihsuan 5* (+100) 10/* For-Loops */ > 1593030918 868465 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07International Phonetic Esoteric Language14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74410&oldid=74409 5* 03Bigyihsuan 5* (-8) 10/* For-Loops */ > 1593031192 854136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ni14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74411 5* 03DeybisMelendez 5* (+2053) 10Created page with " Ni is an esoteric programming language influenced by Brainfuck. The name Ni comes from Nicaragua. Created by [[User:DeybisMelendez]]. == Language Overview == Ni operates wit..." > 1593032149 536264 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ni14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74412&oldid=74411 5* 03DeybisMelendez 5* (-38) 10 > 1593032716 25364 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ni14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74413&oldid=74412 5* 03DeybisMelendez 5* (-12) 10 < 1593032788 135452 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1593032829 996313 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ni14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74414&oldid=74413 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+233) 10cats+! < 1593035681 543783 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1593036842 501265 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1593037396 825485 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu > 1593038858 447107 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74415&oldid=74385 5* 03DeybisMelendez 5* (+9) 10/* N */ < 1593038954 488315 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1593039879 333991 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1593039912 359508 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1593039939 362501 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1593041446 187483 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kinda neat how actually small a brainfuck interpreter in thue is. like it's on par with a C implementation. > 1593041675 933255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ni14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74416&oldid=74414 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+37) 10Update categorization < 1593041871 19108 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593041987 197830 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1593041987 343272 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1593044647 922203 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1593046468 627829 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1593046726 565459 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593047286 987100 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@nat-pool-13-124.soborka.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1593047357 40199 :LKoen!~LKoen___@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1593049281 762888 :LKoen!~LKoen___@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593049334 641378 :LKoen!~LKoen___@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1593050406 196771 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1593050421 918325 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1593051006 194942 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds > 1593054051 850344 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DIVCON14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74417&oldid=73819 5* 03A 5* (+42) 10/* Repeat loop */ > 1593054210 293876 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DIVCON14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74418&oldid=74417 5* 03A 5* (+505) 10/* Whole language, done! */ > 1593054307 148772 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DIVCON14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74419&oldid=74418 5* 03A 5* (+64) 10 < 1593054505 811943 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1593055007 847395 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1593055605 427065 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1593055690 918901 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1593055831 738788 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1593058913 111508 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@nat-pool-13-124.soborka.net QUIT :Quit: leaving > 1593059949 941157 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MAWP14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74420&oldid=74347 5* 03Dion 5* (+78) 10 < 1593060451 5355 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric > 1593061532 804162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74421&oldid=74415 5* 03Bigyihsuan 5* (+47) 10/* I */ < 1593067625 556719 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1593068362 753482 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu > 1593068673 522119 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Robolta14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74422&oldid=68109 5* 03Robolta 5* (-44) 10/* Created Esolangs */ < 1593070007 488838 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:c9eb:32ec:4d8:8f76 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1593070086 410444 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:e519:4f6e:3213:dd7f JOIN :#esoteric < 1593070729 384451 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:e519:4f6e:3213:dd7f QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1593071503 565331 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1593072396 556794 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-249-190.host.pobb.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1593073432 962820 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1593073450 149435 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1593073572 922429 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1593073596 943117 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1593073988 18744 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1593075204 684271 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-73.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1593075368 505854 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1593075376 989804 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1593075392 932249 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1593075648 318802 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1593075665 926297 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1593075782 979442 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1593075810 396270 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric > 1593075952 416999 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tandem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74423&oldid=74366 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+792) 10Major revamp. Change meaning of &. Rewrite much. > 1593076086 530265 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tandem/Sketch of a Tandem Interpreter14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74424&oldid=74300 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+84) 10Add note > 1593076373 582309 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tandem/Sketch of a Tandem Interpreter14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74425&oldid=74424 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (-286) 10Update implementation sketch. < 1593076576 341858 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1593076590 556723 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1593076848 590072 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1593076866 542090 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1593077618 145723 :LKoen!~LKoen___@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric > 1593077713 446382 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tandem/Sketch of a Tandem Interpreter14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74426&oldid=74425 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+391) 10Flesh out sketch to the point where it compiles. > 1593077744 284603 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* 10moved [[02Tandem/Sketch of a Tandem Interpreter10]] to [[Tandem/Tandem.hs]]: It's no longer a sketch > 1593077894 574683 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tandem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74429&oldid=74423 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+112) 10+see also > 1593077982 359820 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tandem14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74430&oldid=74429 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+3) 10/* Algebraic properties */ style, typo fixes > 1593078066 302716 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tandem14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74431&oldid=74430 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+34) 10/* Algebraic properties */ rephrase > 1593078098 417856 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tandem14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74432&oldid=74431 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+6) 10/* Algebraic properties */ add word for clarity < 1593078531 470184 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1593078676 366807 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1593078693 481425 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1593078828 579389 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1593078951 5678 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1593078965 965328 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1593079954 463661 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1593080011 89459 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593080354 349823 :LKoen_!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric > 1593080629 78885 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF-ASM:814]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74433&oldid=74076 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+112) 10im just putting excuses to not make the compiler > 1593080710 988644 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Babalang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74434&oldid=70583 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+113) 10excuse me < 1593080783 942885 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593080954 426809 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1593080976 818541 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07(HA)pple waITING14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74435&oldid=74318 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+14) 10who cares about me and lol turing machine isnt a language < 1593081150 22087 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1593081156 835983 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07(HA)pple waITING14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74436&oldid=74435 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+147) 10stuff that i cant write here lol get rekt lmao < 1593081168 957787 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric > 1593081253 356284 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:DmilkaSTD14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74437&oldid=73231 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+12) 10what are you doing here? > 1593081362 488972 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Fscratch14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74438&oldid=73114 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+30) 10Am I stupid? < 1593081769 959116 :LKoen_!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1593082365 877382 :LKoen!~LKoen___@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1593082981 958877 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593083222 92447 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593083874 443800 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:d1ef:a858:3e79:f8f0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593085835 755043 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-249-190.host.pobb.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1593086641 975277 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593086779 433855 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1593086805 229382 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1593086933 286716 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1593087047 671763 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1593087064 899920 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1593087158 32321 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1593087314 621531 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl JOIN :#esoteric > 1593088654 316320 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Babalang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74439&oldid=74434 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+143) 10 > 1593088696 162850 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF-ASM:814]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74440&oldid=74433 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+7) 10 < 1593089817 881175 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-249-190.host.pobb.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1593089874 362150 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DIVCON14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74441&oldid=74419 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+6) 10/* Unofficial extension */ > 1593090112 539088 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74442&oldid=74383 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+78) 10 > 1593090220 452157 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74443&oldid=74442 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+25) 10/* 1 */ > 1593090330 290750 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Linear bounded automaton14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74444&oldid=54311 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-37) 10/* External resources */ < 1593090383 242664 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are you? > 1593090497 961021 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[071mpr0mp214]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74445&oldid=74222 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-20) 10unpipe > 1593090665 944035 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74446&oldid=74443 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+332) 10/* Alcatraz */ > 1593090747 942177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74447&oldid=74446 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* Linear-bounded brainfuck */ < 1593091023 346743 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-249-190.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am fine how are you > 1593091484 545664 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74448&oldid=74447 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1468) 10/* Linear-bounded brainfuck */ > 1593091668 338520 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74449&oldid=74448 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-146) 10/* Linear-bounded brainfuck */ > 1593091683 464408 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74450&oldid=74449 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-1654) 10/* Alcatraz */ > 1593091735 77225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Linear bounded brainfuck14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74451 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1652) 10Created page with "'''Linear-bounded brainfuck''' is [[brainfuck]] as a [[linear bounded automaton]], created by [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow]]. ==The input-size function== The function of the..." > 1593091747 62388 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Linear bounded brainfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74452&oldid=74451 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* Truth-machine */ > 1593091834 257063 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74453&oldid=74386 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+206) 10/* Languages */ > 1593091877 670392 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74454&oldid=74453 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* Languages */ lbb: code->math > 1593091892 905094 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Linear bounded brainfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74455&oldid=74452 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10 > 1593091927 905340 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74456&oldid=74421 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+31) 10/* L */ > 1593092157 651655 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07KittyKittyMewMew14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74457&oldid=68986 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+195) 10CATS +links > 1593092167 498559 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07KittyKittyMewMew14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74458&oldid=74457 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* Python 3 */ > 1593092222 818906 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Loose Circular Brainfuck (LCBF)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74459&oldid=33483 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+10) 10 < 1593092564 396250 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1593093102 102507 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1593093110 496993 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@172.242.0.73 JOIN :#esoteric > 1593093128 373146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TroJavaScript14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74460&oldid=62024 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+73) 10cats < 1593093380 994399 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-249-190.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I fixed Tandem btw > 1593093832 412354 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07@14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74461&oldid=69865 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+7) 10 < 1593094062 471741 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are you => almost sane. I would be well if not for accidentally hearing a couple of words from a TV talk show, ugh. I’m not a TV watcher but others do use it and I can’t just switch it off when it offends my inner ideals. I don’t like outright heavy-handed manipulations < 1593094084 807682 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric : arseniiv: I fixed Tandem btw => oh! I’ll look at the diff < 1593094954 308191 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: the expression 1 | R | R & R | … for asteration gave me an idea: maybe one can be allowed to define named rules and invoke them in other rules (and maybe themselves)? Would that make something easier? Maybe it wouldn’t change the expressibility < 1593095082 859846 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :R* succeeds if R was able to be applied at least once. => now if we postulate R* being equivalent to 1 | R | …, either R* should always succeed or 1 shouldn’t succeed > 1593095164 849306 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Codesine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74462&oldid=44218 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+40) 10Unpipe && Cats < 1593095168 196719 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly I wanted to suggest you make asteration always succeeding from the start but something kept me from doing it < 1593095168 641558 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1593095199 493236 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Fourier14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74463&oldid=49724 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+30) 10/* Interpreter */ cat < 1593095269 603500 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1593095272 405054 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the old behaviour of asteration would be attainable by R & R* which we may call R+ < 1593095292 1899 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593095357 540208 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-249-190.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asteration does always succeed now - I forgot to update that section. < 1593095409 328517 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-249-190.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The weird way it was defined previously should've tipped me off that something wasn't right > 1593095484 880057 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tandem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74464&oldid=74432 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (-45) 10/* Asteration */ Fix statement about when asteration succeeds. > 1593095622 401669 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tandem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74465&oldid=74464 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+142) 10/* Algebraic properties */ Fix left-distributive identity (& is no longer commutative) and mention right-distributive. < 1593095660 518401 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: also do you want to add 0 and 1 to the inductive definition of a rule now? < 1593095671 809587 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-249-190.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes i probably do. And to the implementation too :) < 1593095752 898419 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hadn’t yet started rewriting my one too > 1593096306 384000 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tandem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74466&oldid=74465 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+352) 10Add 0 and 1 to inductive definition. > 1593096390 597463 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tandem/Tandem.hs14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74467&oldid=74427 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+33) 10Add Zero and One to the implementation. < 1593096424 341315 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-249-190.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rewrite Zero c = Nothing; rewrite One c = Just c < 1593096428 539867 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-249-190.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how elegant is that < 1593096475 186768 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: “R* means: repeatedly apply R while M(R) is nonempty.” => this could be reformulated too via the new M(R, S), I’d do it myself but I don’t know how to say S is the new state each time, succinctly < 1593096548 753584 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: hm maybe it’s possible to generalize rules in some manner and make them instances of Functor etc. < 1593096856 839283 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1593096970 988229 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know like the idea of rank 1, rank 2 functions in Haskell? < 1593096977 718246 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there such thing as a rank omega function? < 1593097317 148643 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: Connection closed < 1593097471 938242 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@172.242.0.73 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1593098101 393275 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: what’s expected to be available in writing its body? < 1593098113 820035 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what can we do with arguments? < 1593098205 592517 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can call the arguments, assuming we have a rank omega function of the appropriate type < 1593098224 218523 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it may be printf-style, knowing each argument’s rank and making a decision each time, applying something to the argument immediately < 1593098226 80800 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's possible that it's an almost useless thing < 1593098295 966879 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for that function to be truly rank-omega it would need to be able to take unbounded-rank arguments and I don’t see how it can be done not in printf-style < 1593098335 765925 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, you're right < 1593098371 267113 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or maybe one first defines a GADT incapsulating a rank-N function and then takes an argument of that type, but that would be almost the same thing though without printf clumsiness, but with its own wrapping clumsiness instead) > 1593099865 365771 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:WilliamRagstad14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74468&oldid=68464 5* 03WilliamRagstad 5* (-150) 10 < 1593100325 203022 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rewrote my Tandem impl and it again doesn’t halt when run on the example > 1593100532 851648 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Osmarks14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74469&oldid=74094 5* 03Osmarks 5* (+128) 10 > 1593100559 185717 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Osmarks14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74470&oldid=74469 5* 03Osmarks 5* (+0) 10 < 1593100666 423801 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593100851 123997 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I applied a rule to the wrong world in concatenation’s application, and input wasn’t being changed < 1593101042 823670 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-249-190.host.pobb.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1593101787 251293 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell cpressey here is mine again: https://hatebin.com/agiijfemrl < 1593101787 394915 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1593101946 420021 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593102111 805780 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1593102239 575461 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-197.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1593102340 701437 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell cpressey hm comparing with Tandem.hs it seems I implemented a “nondeterministic determinism” that for Ri | Rj applies both Ri and Rj when they don’t compete in changes they make. That’s ill-defined though, because (lα → α | lα → β) would replace l with β if applicable. So I’ll better make that part as in Haskell version < 1593102340 701525 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1593102783 919976 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic > 1593103147 82326 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rpncalc14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74471 5* 03Baidicoot 5* (+1664) 10Created page with "RPNCalc (technically RPNCalc V4) is a turing-complete, stack-based, dynamically-typed (vaguely *useful*) programming language that originally started off as a calculator on [h..." > 1593103172 758004 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rpncalc14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74472&oldid=74471 5* 03Baidicoot 5* (+3) 10 < 1593103195 571224 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1593103512 580619 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell cpressey now the idiom to preset values to stacks should be written differently: (preset1 & preset2 & … | cont), as various preset_i would be applicable at the same time. I modified the example (with its Tandem code in a comment) with making my impl compliant with the previous issue: https://hatebin.com/qjielqvzhc < 1593103512 580678 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1593103638 297625 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1593103651 407968 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1593103875 76286 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03DeybisMelendez 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:Ni Logo.jpg10]]" > 1593103902 607813 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ni14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74474&oldid=74416 5* 03DeybisMelendez 5* (+35) 10 < 1593103909 557920 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1593103925 174468 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1593105395 414886 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rpncalc14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74475&oldid=74472 5* 03Baidicoot 5* (+1367) 10 < 1593106943 24530 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-197.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for esoteric purposes, should we invent a multipodal p letter that is used exclusively for talking about the legs of myriapoda? < 1593106977 344374 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-197.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and perhaps the legs of some ICs like CPUs < 1593108414 396324 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1593109039 915274 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( and also a multimodal m? ) < 1593109101 429369 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway this is interesting. How many legs should this p have? I imagine a thing with three < 1593110042 462313 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1593110578 181729 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1593111177 841186 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you make up such fonts? Three would be my guess though < 1593111657 459267 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593112532 628442 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/Mojang/DataFixerUpper/issues/21 well the mystery is over < 1593113388 65700 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1593113393 720782 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1593115088 380641 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-197.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I guess six. three normal legs and three additional legs on the other side of the arthropod represented by short vertical strokes below the normal legs with a gap between < 1593115177 62923 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: could you draw it? < 1593115294 562966 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: wow < 1593115335 396431 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIL there’s a “Category do-notation” in the making: https://github.com/gelisam/category-syntax < 1593115518 138825 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isnt that just function composition < 1593116043 701522 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-197.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: https://i.stack.imgur.com/dYd84.png < 1593116169 607000 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a Italo-Spanish deck, but the box has French suits, why is that? It is clearly the correct box for these cards, though. > 1593116233 284380 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* 10moved [[02Rpncalc10]] to [[RPNCalc]]: fix capitalization < 1593116252 718715 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: there’s something interesting in the example with reshuffling `Either`s < 1593116319 407342 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: oh, with cyrillic one it’s indeed more sense maybe < 1593116390 413959 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-197.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: for a latin one you'd have to add an extra long vertical stroke in the middle, like a poor man's double-struck p, and then four disconnected short extra legs, one on the right and three below the three legs > 1593116404 701878 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RPNCalc14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74478&oldid=74476 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+142) 10cats, bold, links < 1593116440 690256 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-197.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the multiocular o is a cyrillic letter too < 1593116443 418813 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1593116482 571329 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Excess Flood < 1593116509 612476 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593116656 492927 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no doubt though it didn’t allude to me multipodal p should be alike > 1593117148 433152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Alphabetti spaghetti14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74479&oldid=65589 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+67) 10/* Interpreter */ cats! < 1593118080 472453 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1593118311 377944 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric > 1593118394 333215 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Piet-Q14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74480&oldid=44116 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+12) 10/* Using Piet-Q */ > 1593118459 326682 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74481&oldid=72783 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+976) 10 > 1593118911 923579 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74482&oldid=74481 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+25) 10 < 1593119405 457845 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593120038 25384 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1593120526 129274 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :morbid :) 'The TD will accept the following reasons for the withdrawal as adequate: (a) Death of the player' < 1593120922 552048 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1593122376 630067 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that the only reason? < 1593122461 876410 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, there are others. This is from https://www.iccf.com/message?message=447 < 1593123118 574468 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Players are allowed to consult prior to those decisions with any publicly available source of information including chess engines (computer programs), books, DVDs, game archive databases, endgame tablebases, etc." < 1593123135 281609 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :People are allowed to use software? Are all the games just matching chess engines against each other? < 1593123322 785779 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1593123358 135075 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593123422 925736 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they're just relying on the sort of people who'd play correspondence chess in the first place to all feel like that would be missing the point? < 1593123507 576357 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: apparently there's a bit more to this than that... deciding which chess engine fits which position best < 1593123541 704209 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and deciding where to focus the analysis < 1593123545 552116 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there really competition? < 1593123546 309513 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O (Surely that's just a matter of writing a meta-engine though?) < 1593123655 765101 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have competitions and ratings, whatever those mean *shrugs* < 1593123781 257931 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Trappist-1 (also called "Chess on an Infinite Plane with Huygens Option") --" oh no look what you've done now I'm clicking links again < 1593123800 823261 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The game includes two huygens for each color. Huygens can jump 5, 7, 11 and other prime numbers of squares in orthogonal directions (i.e. 5, 7, 11, 13, 17,...).) < 1593123909 56538 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I guess a large part of it is that correspondence chess is relatively old and they've just kept going as technology evolved, embracing it all because the alternative would be to stop completely. < 1593124083 955859 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess so. < 1593124146 560942 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably a week of Leela Chess Zero or maybe Stockfish would just beat approximately anything else? < 1593124214 918202 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah but you don't have that much time for every move < 1593124233 501544 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ICCF standard time control 10 moves in 50 days with duplication after 20 days is used." -- hmm, maybe you do < 1593124246 262969 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :still deciding where to spend your time can make a difference < 1593124266 814839 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but otoh there's probably the Google approach, just get better hardware < 1593124270 59739 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have read there are chess tournaments where the players may use a computer to help with their decision; if you can also use books, DVDs, etc, then you just have many more options. I do not think that is wrong as long as it is known that such things may be done and what the time controls are. So, I think that it can work. < 1593124419 16760 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I can't explain it. I stumbled across the rule because I wanted to understand what "duplication" means in those time controls. Turns out this is a rule for server play that's officially called "double time"... if you take longer than 20 days on a single move, the extra time taken counts twice. < 1593126441 861586 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1593128024 569540 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1593129371 970503 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74483&oldid=74482 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+16) 10 < 1593129786 28433 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1593131375 990692 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not seen that kind of time controls before, I think. < 1593132152 344097 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1593132177 873546 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1593136139 696492 :MDude!~MDude@74.5.140.76 QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1593136406 756656 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ayhiaciderqnykdr JOIN :#esoteric < 1593137983 903785 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-197.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1593144781 396879 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ayhiaciderqnykdr QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1593150560 736662 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1593152142 906066 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1593153890 906298 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593156647 588897 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1593157314 917504 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are cat videos contagious? < 1593157683 195585 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-b0480e-37.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1593157820 861683 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :are cat videos a meme? < 1593157846 957132 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1593157886 385965 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-b0480e-37.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1593157941 453713 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :more of a class of memes, I guess < 1593157978 619251 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, here's an instance I found amusing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doTL-2nAX3c < 1593158008 730842 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm trying very hard to avoid a tab explosion as a result :) < 1593158030 469605 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(tab explosion: https://xkcd.com/609/ ) < 1593158367 405599 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1593158881 412603 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-201-63.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1593158904 764319 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:DmilkaSTD14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74484&oldid=74437 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+26) 10 < 1593159041 6066 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric > 1593159178 642715 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tandem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74485&oldid=74466 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+27) 10/* Asteration */ Add S parameter. h/t arseniiv < 1593159552 910299 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593159582 132117 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no announcement for the ICFP contest 2020 yet < 1593159624 45392 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite that the conference is in 2020-08 and traditionally the results are announced there, so you want the contest well before that < 1593159731 913789 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://icfpcontest2020.github.io/ < 1593159755 331973 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: ah thanks! so they just didn't get the domain name yet < 1593159803 635053 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems late, but the conference will be a virtual event, so no travel arrangements have to be made < 1593159955 876585 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you "attending" SAT 2020? < 1593159973 813039 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i invinted < 1593160014 807013 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow its free < 1593160027 398060 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: sure, but the contest was always a virtual event, not counting the prize ceremony, which was at least recorded on video < 1593160078 670713 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O (If you organize a virtual conference with no registration requirement, can you claim the population of the world as your attendance figure, and just say many attendees just weren't paying that much attention to the event?) < 1593160131 479914 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: sure but they tended to invite a representative of the winning team to the conference which needs a bit of time < 1593160139 214387 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O (If so, can you then use "world's largest" or "one of the world's largest" as descriptors by definition?) < 1593160217 729765 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are also some workshops: Pragmatics of SAT, Model Counting, QBF < 1593160229 630910 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder whether I can attend without installing Zoom? < 1593160267 61677 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it's not easy to claim that, because a lot of people watch the summer Olympics on television, and anyone can watch for free < 1593160308 577217 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not this year :( < 1593160311 945836 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can still do the thing where you invent your own name for an area of industry and then claim that you're the biggest or most prestigeous conference in that area < 1593160336 130761 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and similarly, invent prizes with fancy names and give it to yourself < 1593160341 11773 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: I suspect it's pretty easy to claim that. < 1593160343 486577 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with nice gold plaques < 1593160344 660507 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just need to say it. < 1593160393 833605 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: btw I caved and solved your 6-12 thingy < 1593160416 723605 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa < 1593160418 488216 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :By hand? < 1593160424 699196 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which turned out to be not very Sudoku-like at all) < 1593160437 852497 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, manually, in a text editor. < 1593160470 131291 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*text editor*? you don't have paper and pencil anymore? < 1593160490 355514 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.f-puzzles.com/ seems to work well for these sorts of things. < 1593160497 355392 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used it for convenience; reordering rows is much easier in a text editor. < 1593160517 751260 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, interesting. < 1593160539 156910 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have an idea on the missing step here? uggcf://fyoxof.bet/chmmyr/6-12-fhqbxh/fbyhgvba.ugzy < 1593160557 140959 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm < 1593160596 747576 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to read that. < 1593160609 163011 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean in the beginning. < 1593160622 753432 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The question is how to rule out four of the 1s on rows 7 and 9. < 1593160652 644997 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though actually it sounds like maybe you used a different method, which is interesting. < 1593161014 366142 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1593161374 570646 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-b0480e-37.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1593161551 330772 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-b0480e-37.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1593161957 94602 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason is just that I sort of wanted to submit it to a place but they wanted reasoning showing that it's solvable by reasoning. > 1593162034 504663 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Subleq14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74486&oldid=74321 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+67) 10Make provisional assembler syntax closer to Oleg Mazonka's. > 1593162056 915659 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Subleq14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74487&oldid=74486 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+1) 10/* Preliminaries */ typo < 1593163038 442469 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1593163056 14219 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1593163311 316668 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1593163328 218322 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1593163657 146440 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/6-12.txt is approximately what I did < 1593163694 702517 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is not how you usually solve Sudokus at all. < 1593163931 46406 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"approximately" mainly because I started over from scratch. > 1593164216 416459 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Subleq14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74488&oldid=74487 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+45) 10/* Tutorial: Hello, world! */ Clarify how the memory-mapped output works here. < 1593164729 28126 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, this is interesting. > 1593164958 535785 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Subleq14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74489&oldid=74488 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+3) 10Fix errors in Hello, world that crept in during de-sugaring. < 1593165034 543089 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1593165110 7977 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like this approach. > 1593165340 396354 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Subleq/subleq.py14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74490 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+3502) 10Add public domain interpreter and simple assembler for Subleq. > 1593165477 472281 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Subleq14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74491&oldid=74489 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+112) 10/* See also */ Add subleq.py > 1593165649 731966 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Subleq14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74492&oldid=74491 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+244) 10/* Printing characters in a loop */ Add raw, non-assembly version of the Hello, world program < 1593166428 160582 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: OK, this is pretty neat. < 1593166454 586694 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593166471 887725 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you mind if I send your solution to people (with credit, of course) if I submit the puzzle? < 1593166484 101733 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is pretty different from how I was thinking about it. < 1593166518 363472 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :go ahead < 1593166532 6238 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1593166537 393370 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1593166664 27337 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :By name or nick? < 1593166707 623038 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1593166721 28733 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really care either way. < 1593166725 578977 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This explains some of the properties of the puzzle that I was seeing, about the rows being so determined. < 1593166871 419271 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1593166885 976801 :atslash!~atslash@46.188.0.82 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593166936 312611 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly if I had not seen just how restrictive the at-at-most-11 constraint was, I wouldn't have bothered < 1593166961 832242 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/at-at/at/tuttering < 1593167029 251974 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, most of the information propagates within rows, or something like that. < 1593167158 475805 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other puzzle I uploaded is a lot easier, I think. Probably too easy? I have a harder version but I'm worried it's too hard. < 1593167170 900637 :atslash!~atslash@46.188.0.82 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1593167216 496953 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1593167770 350845 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric > 1593171339 394708 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Burro/TM2Burro.hs14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74493&oldid=74233 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+393) 10Improve TM2Burro to handle any number of tape symbols. > 1593171387 739811 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Burro/TM2Burro.hs14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74494&oldid=74493 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+75) 10clarify < 1593171628 855347 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593172539 662337 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: rebooting < 1593172541 596513 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-201-63.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1593172745 314702 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1593173071 8904 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric > 1593174324 984198 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DIVCON14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74495&oldid=74441 5* 03A 5* (+7) 10Did a bit of re-formatting. < 1593174417 819435 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1593174922 973306 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1593175064 709608 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1593175131 800826 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1593175259 408112 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1593175280 788962 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot how’s the weather? < 1593175281 110485 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: but afaik it isn't at all as saying that you might wanna have them interleaved searches to reduce the size of the element that is the one i opened weeks ago? < 1593175307 981558 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :raining cats and dogs, eh? < 1593175316 559226 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?metar EGSC < 1593175317 186186 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :EGSC 261220Z 18011KT 9999 FEW030 30/16 Q1008 < 1593175325 153200 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1593175339 11161 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1593175399 94538 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW dear fungot are you residing in an imaginary or historical country somewhere or do you associate yourself with a now existing one? < 1593175399 320965 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: extend, extinguish the murderous thing's fnord hunger for human flesh! we're all going to be something much worse. i'll dcc it over! < 1593175427 580911 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet that means somewhere alternate < 1593175821 157306 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEso uses New Zealand locale but Iceland timezone, but I don't know how we can find those out about fungot, since he only interprets brainfuck and underload < 1593175821 300614 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: a list is product heh been reading things that some american guy wrote about living in this building < 1593175851 182399 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1593175906 935898 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1593176006 613240 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/core-set-2021-update-bulletin-2020-06-23 < 1593176880 424735 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-201-63.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1593177077 405784 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DIVCON14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74496&oldid=74495 5* 03A 5* (-583) 102D is extremely difficult to parse. Let's just get rid of that... > 1593177297 974821 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DIVCON14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74497&oldid=74496 5* 03A 5* (-186) 10/* A practical example - gettind rid of the = */ < 1593177420 751381 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a list is a product of its time < 1593177605 248583 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-201-63.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi arseniiv < 1593177618 593361 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: hi hi! < 1593177624 995851 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A list is an exponential of its length < 1593177666 72744 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: hopefully that length is dimensionless, or we’ll get in trouble < 1593177725 531257 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW there is a esoteric topic of dimensional analysis of logarithmic quantities like various kinds of decibels < 1593177732 924973 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :many people get it wrong including me < 1593177733 130683 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(List A ~= Exists (n :: Nat). Fin n -> A) < 1593177788 128078 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :agree < 1593178235 856349 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know much about dimensional analysis of logarithmic quantities but I've thought about it in the past and it sounds quite interesting! < 1593178326 991854 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: we should say that a nat is equal to i radians (or maybe -i radians, who knows) in the same sense as a light-second is equal to i seconds (or -i seconds, who knows) in special relativity < 1593178443 879557 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: a nat here being the natural logarithmic unit of information? < 1593178530 702134 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: yes, 1 nat = 1/log(2) bit < 1593178592 478688 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: I'm not sure I understand how that equivalence would work < 1593178638 77008 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm yeah, that doesn't really make sense < 1593178669 502942 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a century or two ago the time/distance equivalence would have been equally confusing < 1593178733 740177 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I mean, if your entropy is v nat, that means exp(-v) is the mean probability of the outcome; if your angle is phi radians, that means exp(i*v) is ... something < 1593178745 942541 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in both case nats and radians are the natural units to take exp frmo < 1593178773 862734 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Getting pretty close to Euler's identity there > 1593178777 688980 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DIVCON14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74498&oldid=74497 5* 03A 5* (+13) 10/* Add two inputted numbers */ > 1593179044 107965 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DIVCON14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74499&oldid=74498 5* 03A 5* (+55) 10 > 1593179078 64331 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DIVCON14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74500&oldid=74499 5* 03A 5* (-22) 10/* Instruction list */ < 1593179366 922616 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: that’s why I think squared interval is the right unit: then we’re absolved of deciding should we take sqrt of it (and which branch), or sqrt of its absolute value. or what < 1593179575 426859 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the thing is there’s no natural choice to treat timelike nor spacelike interval squares as positive, though physics text often commit to one choice and calculate everything using it instead of treating interval squares as an abstract real linear space. It should be abstract both because of this unorientedness and because there is no natural interval unit (when we’re not in GR, as we often are when working in QED for example) < 1593179773 625443 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, strictly speaking, physicist’s riemannian pseudometric is not a real-valued bilinear form but a bilinear map to the 1-dimensional “squared interval space”. Though physical-minded people I told this to was not accepting this for some reason. Though they also were very coordinate-minded > 1593179796 324017 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DIVCON14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74501&oldid=74500 5* 03A 5* (-53) 10 < 1593179796 694638 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in coordinates, no one will hear you %s < 1593179856 244786 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I don't really understand that physics talk... I guess I deserve that for mentioning special relativity < 1593179857 253070 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where %s = “make suggestions about the right invariant notions” > 1593180137 186868 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DIVCON14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74502&oldid=74501 5* 03A 5* (-980) 10Simplify the spec again! > 1593180152 234639 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DIVCON14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74503&oldid=74502 5* 03A 5* (-214) 10/* Computational class */ > 1593180198 731572 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DIVCON14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74504&oldid=74503 5* 03A 5* (-39) 10Gosh, why is the category still there!? < 1593180875 579216 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@172.242.0.73 JOIN :#esoteric > 1593180889 626880 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BitChanger14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74505&oldid=71616 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+1242) 10Computational class discussion, +See also, minor edits < 1593181354 768952 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1593181368 895387 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1593181549 886101 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593181625 211277 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1593181638 531384 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1593182450 684485 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: Connection closed > 1593182537 688892 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BitChanger14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74506&oldid=74505 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+101) 10Add reference to back up that assertion < 1593182618 998959 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehe < 1593182727 536289 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, I meant “wib_jonas: hehehe” < 1593182828 91093 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: with the exception of I/O, BitChanger looks extremely easy to translate from Boolfuck - one could imagine an additional tag bit used to get the tape pointer to/from the IO area < 1593182853 943595 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic > 1593182867 602249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Digital Hunter14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74507&oldid=57522 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (-65) 10 < 1593182871 318898 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1593183127 30200 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1593183143 990989 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1593183207 359236 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1593183555 407448 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74508&oldid=73206 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (+3) 10/* Language basics */ < 1593183633 462756 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-201-63.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :t20kdc: Oh, I forgot about Boolfuck, thanks. < 1593183694 121611 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially, BitChanger is Turing-complete if Boolfuck without IO is Turing-complete < 1593183706 7259 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boolfuck without IO is Turing-complete if Brainfuck without IO is Turing-complete > 1593183708 772947 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BitChanger14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74509&oldid=74506 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+15) 10/* See also */ < 1593183748 530977 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :while BitChanger has IO, it requires actually implementing a translator, so these are just the absolute certain logical deductions > 1593183942 190165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Boolfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74510&oldid=74244 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+19) 10+year cat; author's page claims they made it in "2004 or 2005" > 1593184144 374046 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74511&oldid=74508 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (-94) 10/* Example Programs */ < 1593184264 739690 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1593184385 488862 :MDude!~MDude@74.5.140.76 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593184580 932286 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric > 1593184806 900649 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74512&oldid=74511 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (-3) 10/* Instruction Syntax */ > 1593184838 842766 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Subleq/subleq.py14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74513&oldid=74490 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+51) 10cat + back > 1593184995 896715 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74514&oldid=74512 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (+0) 10/* Logic flow */ > 1593185100 577562 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Burro/TM2Burro.hs14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74515&oldid=74494 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+44) 10 > 1593185235 168691 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Boolfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74516&oldid=74510 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+314) 10Add command table. > 1593185740 145267 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74517&oldid=74483 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-62) 10/* Interpreter */ < 1593186297 136349 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1593187023 286320 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-201-63.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1593187032 856640 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-138.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1593187627 304302 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1593188131 402263 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1593188553 56610 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Oneline14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74518&oldid=61844 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+142) 10cats + grm + links > 1593188919 836594 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Lambda calculus14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74519&oldid=71550 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+5) 10/* Introduction */ > 1593189442 564093 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Bigmac14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74520 5* 03Emerald 5* (+198) 10/* mom please get me so me zucchini from sho p */ new section > 1593190193 920071 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74521&oldid=74514 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (+2976) 10 > 1593190414 565275 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Chespirito14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74522 5* 03DeybisMelendez 5* (+797) 10Created page with "'''Chespirito''' is a brainfuck clone that uses some famous words created by [https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_G%C3%B3mez_Bola%C3%B1os Chespirito] as instructions. Create..." > 1593190579 78578 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07CancelScript14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74523&oldid=59353 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+100) 10bold + links + cats + headersFix > 1593190648 491427 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SMITH sharp14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74524&oldid=52874 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+22) 10cat langs > 1593191340 629114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74525&oldid=74517 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+186) 10/* Syntax and Semantics */ > 1593191364 695919 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74526&oldid=74525 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* Syntax and Semantics */ > 1593191537 272303 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Chespirito14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74527&oldid=74522 5* 03DeybisMelendez 5* (+126) 10 > 1593191556 926684 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Probie14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74528&oldid=73636 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+39) 10/* QUINE */ CAT > 1593191595 388443 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Probie14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74529&oldid=74528 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+24) 10ns notice > 1593191712 839042 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:DeybisMelendez14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74530&oldid=74404 5* 03DeybisMelendez 5* (+32) 10 > 1593191734 599617 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Probabilistic combinatory logic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74531&oldid=45419 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+84) 10cats > 1593191741 938361 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Probabilistic combinatory logic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74532&oldid=74531 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+2) 10/* Computational Class */ > 1593191799 265179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Combinatory logic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74533&oldid=66393 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+53) 10/* External resources */ cats > 1593191844 227062 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pointfree programming14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74534&oldid=65340 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+36) 10cat > 1593192098 899293 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74535&oldid=74526 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+15) 10/* Interpreter */ > 1593192117 459706 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74536&oldid=74535 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-1156) 10Blanked the page > 1593192157 706424 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07N Refine14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74537 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1144) 10add N Refine > 1593193114 291152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NucleotideBF (nBF)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74538&oldid=35472 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+92) 10/* Python Implementation */ cats + spaces > 1593193168 49866 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74539&oldid=74456 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+15) 10/* N */ + [[N Refine]] > 1593193217 586773 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74540&oldid=74454 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+60) 10/* Languages */ > 1593193626 696737 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74541&oldid=74521 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (+21) 10/* Computational class */ > 1593193885 773559 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Writeover14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74542&oldid=73791 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+163) 10/* Options */ > 1593193923 691660 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Writeover14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74543&oldid=74542 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-1) 10/* Examples */ > 1593194141 566666 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Writeover14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74544&oldid=74543 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+153) 10/* Backquote */ < 1593194688 911969 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1593194749 727800 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74545&oldid=74541 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (+86) 10/* C */ < 1593195057 631032 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@172.242.0.73 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1593196436 374838 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GORBITSA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74546&oldid=74350 5* 03ZippyMagician 5* (+9) 10Linear Bounded Automata -> Fix computational class > 1593196499 663757 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74547&oldid=74545 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+6) 10fix yer headers > 1593196780 42032 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GORBITSA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74548&oldid=74546 5* 03ZippyMagician 5* (+54) 10Better version of self-interpreter > 1593196815 821659 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BrainfuckX14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74549&oldid=58303 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+130) 10cats + bold + headers + misc > 1593196975 132715 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Unicat14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74550&oldid=65763 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10 < 1593198028 950812 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@172.242.0.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593198757 638590 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does any other card game have a feature like the zeros in Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories? Possibly a game similar to whist can be made up with a few similar features. < 1593198776 780649 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do the zeroes do? < 1593198824 455126 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Normally, a card beats a lower card, and if equal the first card works and the second card doesn't. However, if a zero is played, it beats a card that has been played before it, but can also be beaten by any card. < 1593198889 286688 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-138.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and if equal the first card works and the second card doesn't" => wait what? < 1593198909 813407 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-138.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's reversed from some other trick-taking card games < 1593198969 103576 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is, although Kingdom Hearts isn't a trick-taking game or even a card game < 1593199065 245953 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think in most card games though you have to follow suit and there aren't duplicate cards, so you can't have the same one anyways < 1593200194 550179 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-138.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to follow cards, but there are variants of a trick-taking party game that is often played with 5 to 10 players, and since there are a large number of players, you play with two 52-card decks < 1593200798 938861 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric > 1593201438 910247 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74551&oldid=56620 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (-685) 10 > 1593201704 581411 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74552&oldid=74547 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (+208) 10/* Advanced techniques */ to be continued! < 1593202581 911228 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1593203870 980245 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1593203906 499820 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1593204046 882347 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1593204192 104154 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@172.242.0.73 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1593204532 948449 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@172.242.0.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593205005 114879 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Quit: ... < 1593205987 942137 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric > 1593206428 21853 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Uyjhmn n14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74553&oldid=73129 5* 03NotVeryGoodAtThis 5* (+18) 10added link to Truttle1's userpage > 1593206676 124627 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Uyjhmn n14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74554&oldid=74553 5* 03NotVeryGoodAtThis 5* (+1) 10fixed some typos > 1593206722 889302 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Uyjhmn n14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74555&oldid=74554 5* 03NotVeryGoodAtThis 5* (-2) 10its vs it's > 1593207326 322117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74556&oldid=74552 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (+105) 10/* Example programs */ > 1593207725 283438 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74557&oldid=74556 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (-2) 10/* If Statements */ original specification may lead to unwanted preconceptions > 1593208092 955203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74558&oldid=74557 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (-101) 10/* S */ changed some wording < 1593208766 349155 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1593208878 383702 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric > 1593208962 12396 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Transceternal14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74559&oldid=73310 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+1) 10/* Syntax */ fix typo < 1593209668 877831 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593209834 506218 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1593209837 557879 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life > 1593210252 524956 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74560&oldid=74558 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (-63) 10/* Loop Statements */ > 1593210303 757176 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74561&oldid=74560 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (-49) 10/* If Statements */ < 1593211509 757412 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jrkxutmgiabijoqs JOIN :#esoteric > 1593211720 18150 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74562&oldid=74561 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (-1) 10/* C */ < 1593211863 410537 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric > 1593213021 86120 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74563&oldid=74562 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (+826) 10/* Advanced techniques */ > 1593213040 560195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74564&oldid=74563 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (+6) 10/* The jump instruction */ < 1593213797 123780 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: so there is "stratego" in which normally a higher ranked beats a lower ranked < 1593213816 231432 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the exception of the spy(1) and marshall(10) < 1593213827 323763 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :the spy beats the marshal if it's the spy attacking < 1593213844 481130 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the marshal attacks the spy, then the marshal beats the spy < 1593213873 396084 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( I take it those are not manpages ) < 1593213885 664678 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1593214089 932556 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, I remember Stratego. > 1593215109 977703 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Uyjhmn n14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74565&oldid=74555 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-9) 10UnPiPe < 1593215171 639200 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@172.242.0.73 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1593215188 824240 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74566&oldid=74564 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-12) 10/* Divide two numbers */ cat comp you proved tc > 1593215649 368893 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74567&oldid=74566 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (+183) 10/* Hello, world! */ > 1593215660 196393 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74568&oldid=74567 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (+1) 10/* Hello, world! */ > 1593215764 475450 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74569&oldid=74568 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (+0) 10/* Truth-machine */ < 1593218992 684831 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1593222268 670872 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jrkxutmgiabijoqs QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1593226366 984972 :adu!~arobbins@h46.143.101.208.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1593228882 354981 :adu!~arobbins@h46.143.101.208.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1593234373 915314 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds > 1593238754 705751 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DIVCON14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74570&oldid=74504 5* 03A 5* (-16) 10/* Instruction list */ > 1593238815 50667 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DIVCON14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74571&oldid=74570 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10Fixed order < 1593240133 327784 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593242135 968923 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric > 1593244773 869061 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MUSYS14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74572&oldid=65803 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+100) 10/* External resources */ Link to in progress MUSYS simulator project < 1593246727 253812 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds > 1593249051 901258 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ly14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74573&oldid=70563 5* 03Sinthorion 5* (+24) 10category < 1593249099 175705 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1593252101 934100 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1593252857 535401 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593253093 980130 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1593253134 11483 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593253768 944552 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1593253863 244411 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1593260457 905280 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 JOIN :#esoteric > 1593262341 873974 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Uyjhmn n14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74574&oldid=74565 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+25) 10/* External Resources */ cat > 1593263094 866422 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ly14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74575&oldid=74573 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-10) 10/* Truth-machine */ sanity check? > 1593263110 83609 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ly14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74576&oldid=74575 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+68) 10/* crystaLyne */ cats < 1593263626 392409 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593263743 355722 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-138.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently I started to work on the fecupboard20 font in 2008. that's quite long ago. < 1593263902 660315 :loakna!~loakna@2a01:cb11:4b0:e900:a9ee:aa80:9808:4bc6 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593266687 986867 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1593266689 519987 :adu!~arobbins@h46.143.101.208.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1593266834 524101 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1593267610 997307 :adu!~arobbins@h46.143.101.208.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1593267749 586835 :adu!~arobbins@h46.143.101.208.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1593268314 614930 :adu!~arobbins@h46.143.101.208.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1593268315 570303 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1593268835 207358 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1593269450 200408 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1593269627 505648 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric > 1593271420 827413 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74577&oldid=74569 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (+117) 10/* Language basics */ > 1593271458 966935 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74578&oldid=74577 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (-1) 10/* C */ rephrasing words > 1593271523 647843 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74579&oldid=74578 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (+0) 10/* B */ > 1593272256 108260 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74580&oldid=74579 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (+30) 10/* Computational class */ > 1593272513 287649 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74581&oldid=74580 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (+0) 10/* Instruction Syntax */ > 1593272535 742943 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74582&oldid=74581 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (+542) 10/* Advanced techniques */ < 1593274787 901595 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@nat-pool-13-124.soborka.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1593277177 209998 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-epajfpkkxbsctevr QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1593278473 568924 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-rnhbzegjnugwutjy JOIN :#esoteric < 1593279680 554710 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 JOIN :#esoteric > 1593280183 987774 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74583&oldid=74582 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (+646) 10/* Example programs */ > 1593280262 903832 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74584&oldid=74583 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (+0) 10/* Store a number as a string */ < 1593281212 323395 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1593281797 739300 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1593282872 890371 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1593283094 496497 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 JOIN :#esoteric > 1593283139 498796 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74585&oldid=74450 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+15) 10/* Alcatraz */ < 1593283572 502471 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1593285029 427056 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74586&oldid=74585 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1349) 10/* Minsky Swap */ < 1593286723 376829 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593287356 293833 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1593287553 194106 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1593289056 952347 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593289520 387103 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric > 1593290602 450525 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Point14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74587&oldid=73253 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+54) 10/* Counting up */ cats > 1593290627 57026 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Point14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74588&oldid=74587 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-2) 10/* Point */ > 1593291119 861524 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74589&oldid=74586 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+402) 10/* Readable Minsky Swap Notation */ > 1593291157 77066 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74590&oldid=74589 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+3) 10/* Readable Minsky Swap Notation */ > 1593291249 210626 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74591&oldid=74590 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-1769) 10/* Minsky Swap */ > 1593291257 882159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minsky Swap14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74592 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1741) 10Created page with "'''Minsky Swap''' is an esolang based on [[Minsky machine]]s and created by [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow]]. ==Memory== Programs in Minsky Swap have access to two unbounded r..." > 1593291293 652110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74593&oldid=74539 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+18) 10/* M */ + [[Minsky Swap]] > 1593291345 9680 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74594&oldid=74540 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+109) 10/* Languages */ > 1593291767 234052 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MIX (Knuth)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74595&oldid=66904 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+23) 10/* Implementations */ cat < 1593291769 753708 :loakna!~loakna@2a01:cb11:4b0:e900:a9ee:aa80:9808:4bc6 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1593291905 403354 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MIX (Knuth)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74596&oldid=74595 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+30) 10 > 1593291942 703072 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MIX14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74597&oldid=52407 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-14) 10 < 1593292816 908116 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1593293794 539692 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1593294916 477481 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:1942:ee29:52c0:740a JOIN :#esoteric < 1593295119 435372 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:d1ef:a858:3e79:f8f0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1593296161 613203 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593296374 949060 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1593296375 889935 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1593296438 23097 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1593296686 181494 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric < 1593298901 178507 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1593298904 598937 :adu!~arobbins@h46.143.101.208.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1593299778 511805 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1593300195 591935 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1593301235 679266 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-138.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ruby -ea=[59, 112, 114, 105, 110, 116, 34, 97, 61, 35, 123, 97, 125, 35, 123, 97, 46, 112, 97, 99, 107, 40, 39, 99, 42, 39, 41, 125, 34];print"a=#{a}#{a.pack('c*')}" < 1593301236 866138 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruby? No such file or directory < 1593301240 405944 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-138.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1593301251 911757 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-138.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :quine by Kirjava, not mine < 1593302489 220108 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there something unusual about that quine? < 1593302551 842638 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> text$ap(++)show"text$ap(++)show" < 1593302553 590973 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : text$ap(++)show"text$ap(++)show" < 1593302556 847447 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :vaguely reminds me of that one < 1593302678 32938 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :s="print \"s=\",s.inspect,\";\",s";print "s=",s.inspect,";",s < 1593302707 929403 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, the Ruby REPL has syntax highlighting now. < 1593302799 756348 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'll make quines much more cumbersome :P < 1593302854 587217 :adu!~arobbins@h46.143.101.208.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1593303462 433042 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1593303531 650741 :adu!~arobbins@ip-173-125-22-20.atlnga.spcsdns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1593303534 858071 :adu!~arobbins@ip-173-125-22-20.atlnga.spcsdns.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1593304584 870787 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1593305595 545922 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :My bug report about printobject and writeobject in Ghostscript has now been marked as "bountiable"; I am not really sure what that means, but they have confirmed that the bug is present. < 1593306358 398784 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Do you know what that means?) < 1593306463 213415 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it means that they'll pay a bounty to whoever fixes it < 1593306660 792094 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. I fixed it myself, although since I have not signed the contribution agreement, I have not included their fix on the bug reporting system; I have posted my correction to comp.lang.postscript though (the message ID is <1591641282.bystand@zzo38computer.org>). < 1593306665 883564 :hakatashi1!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593306890 920991 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1593308298 486435 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1593308344 984867 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1593308592 746438 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-138.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ftoc 83 < 1593308593 395604 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :83.00°F = 28.33°C < 1593308728 107037 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar lowi < 1593308729 748700 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOWI 280120Z AUTO 28002KT 9999 SCT004 BKN011 15/15 Q1020 < 1593308938 861731 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-138.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not here < 1593308955 646748 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-138.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's close but < 1593308961 208712 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just curious how close the two temperatures are together < 1593308971 287537 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't get much more humid than that. < 1593308976 164283 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(relatively) < 1593309933 968648 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar koak < 1593309934 305210 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :KOAK 280153Z 28015KT 10SM FEW007 FEW015 BKN200 17/12 A2983 RMK AO2 SLP100 T01720122 $ < 1593309937 704454 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1593309974 913390 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1593312634 9246 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-94-32.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1593312865 764872 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:1942:ee29:52c0:740a QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1593319394 604937 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1593319397 999915 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1593324133 401357 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is my latest role playing game story: http://zzo38computer.org/gurpsgame/1.ui/wiki?name=Session+31 Do you like this? < 1593324246 679326 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this information available via Gopher? < 1593324330 928007 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently, no, although you can download a Hamster archive from HTTP containing the files. < 1593324340 5657 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.org/gurpsgame/1.har < 1593324366 974261 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Anyways, it isn't quite plain text (there is some formatting), which is mainly why it has not been made available via Gopher so far.) < 1593324807 341704 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, this web page works fine in Lynx; I have ensured that it does.) < 1593326458 761559 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@nat-pool-13-124.soborka.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1593327877 932286 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1593328743 443415 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593329380 534383 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593331721 290647 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1593332789 546781 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Snowflake14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74598 5* 03Orisphera 5* (+1346) 10Created page with "== Problems w/ FORK and SPOON == I have several questions about FORK and SPOON: ~~~~ * Are threads that are created and ones that become shiny/shabby while processing other sh..." < 1593333074 489936 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1593335129 963089 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1593335615 93760 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Snowflake (Orisphera's edition)14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74599 5* 03Orisphera 5* (+42693) 10Created page with "'''Snowflake (Orisphera's eidtion)''' is Snowflake with some tweaks done in order to fix some issues with FORK and SPOON. It is a reversible, self-modifying, data-parallel eso..." > 1593335765 187100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74600&oldid=74593 5* 03Orisphera 5* (+38) 10/* S */ < 1593337853 266716 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1593339480 71845 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593339572 84895 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1593339572 84955 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1593340664 912234 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593342451 982082 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 JOIN :#esoteric > 1593346466 201010 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74601&oldid=74536 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+399) 10 > 1593346619 599615 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hey stack!14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74602&oldid=64655 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* Ways of greeting */ > 1593346676 847595 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hey stack!14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74603&oldid=74602 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+17) 10/* Description of Conway's Cellular Automaton in Hey stack! */ < 1593347134 90133 :adu!~arobbins@h46.143.101.208.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1593347331 472005 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric > 1593347785 403136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Writeover14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74604&oldid=74544 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+162) 10/* Options */ < 1593350260 322183 :adu!~arobbins@h46.143.101.208.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Quit: adu > 1593350346 347773 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74605&oldid=74601 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-399) 10Blanked the page > 1593350359 56251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07UFSA14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74606 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1506) 10Created page with "'''UFSA''' ('''Universal Finite State Automaton''') is an esolang by [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow]]. It can be used to describe any [[finite-state automaton]]. ==Syntax== Th..." > 1593350457 946130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07UFSA/PlusOrMinus14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74607 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+6419) 10Created page with ":{{Back|UFSA}} This is a description/implementation of [[PlusOrMinus]] in [[UFSA]].

 0 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30..."
> 1593350520 626108 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07UFSA14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74608&oldid=74606 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+123) 10/* Syntax */
> 1593350553 307456 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74609&oldid=74600 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+11) 10/* U */
> 1593350601 549034 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74610&oldid=74594 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+73) 10/* Languages */
> 1593350623 378473 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/AllTheCats14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74611&oldid=74303 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-48) 10/* Languages */
> 1593350647 595397 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/AllTheCats14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74612&oldid=74611 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-29) 10/* Languages */
< 1593351339 947373 :adu!~arobbins@h46.143.101.208.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1593353089 498912 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Procedure14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74613&oldid=72414 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1) 10/* Numeric constants (non-literals) */
< 1593354517 604813 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1593356979 431906 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1593357054 993932 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593357537 633702 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1593357818 434631 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric
> 1593360000 579194 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Snowflake14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74614&oldid=74598 5* 03Orisphera 5* (+8) 10/* Problems w/ FORK and SPOON */
< 1593361208 905383 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1593361853 964007 :adu!~arobbins@h46.143.101.208.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Quit: adu
< 1593362113 485568 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1593362459 456718 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593362633 450160 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi fungot
< 1593362633 665216 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: i guessed that. you don't even make any sense but blaming it on someone else to
< 1593362654 173972 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I just wanted to say hello
< 1593362654 326729 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: that's the point. not all of them via my fnord connection. :) thanks so much.
< 1593362681 984460 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I absolve your grumpiness okay
< 1593363367 382223 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:1979:8ce1:6647:fba7 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1593364109 794219 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:9c93:6313:d04a:1b1f JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593364613 890788 :laerling!~laerling@static.235.77.203.116.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Changing host
< 1593364614 36790 :laerling!~laerling@unaffiliated/laerling JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593365279 303788 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1593365345 860912 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593366093 455021 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593366612 524497 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@172.242.0.73 JOIN :#esoteric
> 1593368060 341420 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Object oriented Thue14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74615&oldid=70938 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+25) 10/* External resources */ categories
> 1593368311 472063 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74616&oldid=74591 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+438) 10/* Alcatraz */
< 1593370507 845548 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@172.242.0.73 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1593370623 998999 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@172.242.0.73 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593372922 39433 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@172.242.0.73 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1593373124 487898 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://twitter.com/pigworker/status/1270322619926151170
< 1593373197 802407 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://vimeo.com/428161108
< 1593373668 374156 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
> 1593373919 780821 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07InfSt14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74617&oldid=55863 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+185) 10/* Interpreter */ cats + rm header
> 1593373956 420357 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07InfSt14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74618&oldid=74617 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1) 10/* Interpreter */
> 1593374040 613598 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07InfSt14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74619&oldid=74618 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-14) 10
> 1593374190 16757 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Writeover14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74620&oldid=74604 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+192) 10/* Options */ add b
> 1593374511 736890 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Transposed14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74621 5* 03ZippyMagician 5* (+3567) 10First version of page
> 1593374839 155879 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:ZippyMagician14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74622 5* 03ZippyMagician 5* (+258) 10Created page with "Hey! I've always enjoyed writing programs in and interpreters for esolangs, so naturally I made an account here :D. Here are the esolangs I've written so far:  *[[Transposed]]..."
> 1593374983 209665 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Transposed14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74623&oldid=74621 5* 03ZippyMagician 5* (+10) 10Clarification
> 1593375341 111156 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Zfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74624&oldid=73602 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+357) 10/* See also */
> 1593375695 465129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Zfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74625&oldid=74624 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+66) 10/* Interpreter in JavaScript */
> 1593376320 781819 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Transposed14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74626&oldid=74623 5* 03ZippyMagician 5* (+1) 10Typo
< 1593378265 389440 :hakatashi1!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1593378269 503920 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN :#esoteric
> 1593381030 965989 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Integer14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74627 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+5269) 10+[[Integer]]
> 1593381034 90923 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74628&oldid=74609 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+14) 10+[[Integer]]
> 1593381037 234696 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Hakerh40014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74629&oldid=74401 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+14) 10+[[Integer]]
< 1593382430 20457 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ezkmhduzydylxopy JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593382789 477005 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593382895 57583 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1593382961 211990 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1593383354 601637 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Miraldo and Swierstra wrote a diff for (typed) trees: http://www.staff.science.uu.nl/~swier004/publications/2019-icfp-victor.pdf
< 1593383378 564401 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1593383430 504471 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:20kdc/HypotheticalBrainfuckToByteByteJump14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74630&oldid=73917 5* 0320kdc 5* (+440) 10Actual limited-memory interpreter for Brainfuck in ByteByteJump using the described techniques.
< 1593385131 575156 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1593385478 945704 :adu!~arobbins@h46.143.101.208.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593386238 76654 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593386808 847041 :adu!~arobbins@h46.143.101.208.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Quit: adu
> 1593387438 916671 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Integer14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74631&oldid=74627 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+4) 10
> 1593387620 877884 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07AsciiDots14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74632&oldid=60799 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-8) 10
> 1593387651 468629 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Transposed14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74633&oldid=74626 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-49) 10
< 1593387801 581728 :adu!~arobbins@h46.143.101.208.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593389522 311492 :adu!~arobbins@h46.143.101.208.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Quit: adu
< 1593390967 454405 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1593391476 141531 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-138.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1593392341 327730 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ezkmhduzydylxopy QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1593392459 781713 :adu!~arobbins@h46.143.101.208.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593393506 454079 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:502f:7b80:fcc9:65e3 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593393958 578716 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
< 1593394878 928821 :adu!~arobbins@h46.143.101.208.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Quit: adu
< 1593394925 404861 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593395117 762426 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1593396055 481363 :adu!~arobbins@h46.143.101.208.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593402788 199664 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:502f:7b80:fcc9:65e3 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1593408232 478965 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will some software other than TeXnicard implement the Separations Output Format?
< 1593408731 738385 :__aaa__!~aaaa@240e:335:c8:2a60:7daa:465:4f98:58f6 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593408777 99098 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic
< 1593408793 484422 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593408795 625029 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-084-063-063-106.084.063.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.8
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< 1593409047 194740 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit
< 1593409062 201940 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593411412 690547 :adu!~arobbins@h46.143.101.208.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Quit: adu
< 1593412741 969922 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Quit: brb
< 1593412813 942191 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593413809 814035 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1593413823 446197 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593413841 896802 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593414394 169830 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.evan-doorbell.com/production/Overview-rough.mp3
< 1593414394 462857 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1593414783 871300 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esoteric.codes/blog/esoprogramming-and-computational-idealism
< 1593415306 547459 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593416653 372630 :AidanBaidicoot!~AidanBaid@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
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> 1593418234 500759 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Snowflake (Orisphera's edition)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74634&oldid=74599 5* 03Orisphera 5* (+10) 10
< 1593418291 818714 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 JOIN :#esoteric
> 1593418856 793503 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SBN14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74635&oldid=50790 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+9) 10added the stub
> 1593418941 492518 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Laser14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74636&oldid=58989 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (-6) 10added the link to your user
< 1593419056 479446 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
> 1593419102 421030 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BytFuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74637&oldid=74238 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (-32) 10cant explain
> 1593419364 313971 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tandem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74638&oldid=74485 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+324) 10Add section on commutors and distributors
> 1593419407 723468 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Encapsulation14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74639&oldid=66122 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (-11) 10fix title
> 1593419797 645617 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tandem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74640&oldid=74638 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+235) 10Stack labels can be strings now, not just single characters.
> 1593422172 767295 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Snowflake (Orisphera's edition)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74641&oldid=74634 5* 03Orisphera 5* (+4) 10
< 1593423015 887733 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@178.214.245.186 JOIN :#esoteric
> 1593423074 313764 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:ZOWIE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74642&oldid=66231 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+188) 10/* Turing completeness */
> 1593423383 209980 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ZOWIE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74643&oldid=30950 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+173) 10I claim that this language is Turing-complete.
< 1593424229 523946 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:Brainfuck#Would_BF_still_be_TC_with_do-while_loops.3F
< 1593424237 223885 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://cs.stackexchange.com/questions/47603/does-a-do-while-loop-suffice-for-turing-completeness
< 1593424275 731885 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's widely received knowledge that the language of "WHILE programs" is Turing-complete whereas the language of "REPEAT programs" isn't.
< 1593424288 72044 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would guess yes by the principle of impossibility of avoiding turing completeness
< 1593424304 438678 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wwow you're saying it's NOT TC? that's exciting
< 1593424394 875502 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"widely received knowledge" => "most people believe this, including people who write research papers"
< 1593424424 610940 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have two claims, I would love to see an actual proof.
< 1593424507 636908 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised this problem is not already cleanly solved
< 1593424546 505661 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, unless you have some way to make a loop iteration be a nop or revertable depending on the state of a cell, you pretty much lose the ability to branch
< 1593424622 462999 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can branch
< 1593424628 660661 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just 1 or 2 instead of 0 or 1
< 1593424656 862597 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this suggests trying to implement a reversible turing complete language is doBF
< 1593424671 579740 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not really branching
< 1593425141 39750 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see how using reversibility could help (do it zero or one times ~ do it twice, then undo it once or twice)
< 1593426121 314924 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1593426144 75329 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593426439 21784 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593428784 545247 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593429151 787794 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: is a limited-memory Brainfuck interpreter sufficient to prove the status of bounded-storage-machine?
< 1593429484 913801 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :t20kdc: I think so? https://esolangs.org/wiki/Smallfuck is an example of a brainfuck derivative that explicitly has finite memory, so is a bounded storage machine.
< 1593429566 383177 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case, any ByteByteJump with some minimum amount of memory (unknown, but at most 16K) is at BSM level
< 1593429589 927477 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :proof for the 3-address-bytes/16MB case is at https://esolangs.org/wiki/User:20kdc/HypotheticalBrainfuckToByteByteJump#A_Much_Less_Hypothetical_Implementation
< 1593429619 798320 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the techniques used in it are described elsewhere on that page
< 1593429772 393553 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds/looks reasonable
< 1593429869 499081 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :though to avoid wasting a lot of RAM, the tape uses up most of available memory, and is shared with the program content
< 1593429902 635977 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the theoretical description assumes a Brainfuck->ByteByteJump compiler, but this is an interpreter
< 1593429994 502194 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the basis that an interpreter cannot perform any trickery
< 1593430370 878103 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593430450 201228 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There would be some overhead with an interpreter, but that doesn't really matter (it would kind of be expected.)
< 1593430610 992627 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :even for a compiler, there's an expected overhead of 768 bytes
< 1593430640 820673 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(increment, decrement, check-zero)
< 1593430776 190536 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and conditional branches have either page alignment requirements (which gets costly fast) or 12 instructions of additional setup code...
< 1593431051 978261 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1593431124 156206 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593431555 382306 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 QUIT :Quit: Lunch.
> 1593432092 654818 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ThisIsNotARealLanguage14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74644&oldid=24123 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+28) 10+joke languages category
> 1593432262 150538 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Fscratch14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74645&oldid=74438 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+5) 10just "wikified"?
< 1593432281 144999 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”
> 1593432309 76367 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BytFuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74646&oldid=74637 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+11) 10
> 1593432348 528722 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BytFuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74647&oldid=74646 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-24) 10external link -> link
> 1593432364 69609 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BytFuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74648&oldid=74647 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1) 10
> 1593432553 941431 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07(   )fuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74649&oldid=65072 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+108) 10bold + cats
> 1593432879 379583 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tuplary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74650&oldid=71018 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+145) 10links fixed
> 1593433041 963903 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Timefuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74651&oldid=16628 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+228) 10cats + misc
> 1593433083 142239 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tuplary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74652&oldid=74650 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (-39) 10links fixed, again
> 1593433307 391809 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Fscratch14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74653&oldid=74645 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+5) 10/* Essentials */
> 1593433381 233124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Fscratch14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74654&oldid=74653 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+6) 10
> 1593433640 995272 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74655&oldid=74616 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+490) 10/* LET me PRINT the CURSOR */
< 1593433832 934700 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
> 1593433916 290154 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07HQ9+14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74656&oldid=71611 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+32) 10/* External resources */ comp class
> 1593433976 674878 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[072/9 of an esolang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74657&oldid=71200 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-24) 10
> 1593434050 534749 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[072/9 of an esolang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74658&oldid=74657 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+2) 10/* Hello, World! */ header->fix();
> 1593434145 718872 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Les Accents Franais14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74659&oldid=55578 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+44) 10emphasis on idea
< 1593434186 493328 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric
> 1593434318 874382 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tuplary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74660&oldid=74652 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+841) 10grammar bad
< 1593434382 13806 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
> 1593434441 934116 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tuplary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74661&oldid=74660 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+17) 10grammar bad++
> 1593434516 236121 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tuplary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74662&oldid=74661 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (-9) 10not a stub anymore
> 1593434550 372181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Z314]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74663&oldid=61294 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+29) 10
> 1593434645 742346 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ThisIsNotARealLanguage14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74664&oldid=74644 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+51) 10
> 1593434659 610857 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tuplary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74665&oldid=74662 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+37) 10
> 1593434711 914752 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SBN14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74666&oldid=74635 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-9) 10
> 1593434753 81726 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tuplary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74667&oldid=74665 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+386) 10added palindrom example
> 1593434793 305596 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tuplary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74668&oldid=74667 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+15) 10everyone makes oopsies
> 1593434884 667448 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tuplary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74669&oldid=74668 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (-29) 10+palindrom
> 1593434923 7571 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tuplary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74670&oldid=74669 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+15) 10palindrom sequel movie hd
> 1593434952 841742 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07+14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74671&oldid=49038 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+798) 10
> 1593435044 285153 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Encapsulation14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74672&oldid=74639 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+39) 10/* Interpreters */
> 1593435088 19157 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Intramodular Transaction14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74673&oldid=70613 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+34) 10/* Interpreters */
> 1593435100 501027 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Intramodular Transaction14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74674&oldid=74673 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-10) 10unpipe
> 1593435187 641104 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Laser14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74675&oldid=74636 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+108) 10cats,link,bold
> 1593435308 586053 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07XENBLN14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74676&oldid=73269 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+72) 10/* Loop until the user says "stop" (case-insensitive) (9 bytes) */
> 1593435386 259416 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07XENBLN/Commands14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74677&oldid=72974 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+30) 10
> 1593435498 661154 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07XENBLN/Commands14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74678&oldid=74677 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+2) 10update commands (did anything change?)
> 1593435515 594710 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07XENBLN14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74679&oldid=74676 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+2) 10/* Commands */
> 1593435553 859112 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tuplary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74680&oldid=74670 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+190) 10meh
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> 1593436117 767249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tuplary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74682&oldid=74680 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+268) 10+chars doc
> 1593436184 459267 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:DmilkaSTD14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74683&oldid=74484 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+29) 10+tuplary
> 1593436226 734787 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tuplary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74684&oldid=74682 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+1) 10oopsy daisy
> 1593436238 411210 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tuplary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74685&oldid=74684 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+1) 10?
> 1593436338 199856 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07+14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74686&oldid=74671 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+84) 10/* External resources */
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> 1593436444 470389 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tuplary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74687&oldid=74685 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+60) 10+hi
> 1593436943 938589 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tuplary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74688&oldid=74687 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+270) 10im going to end it later
< 1593437497 916692 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: One of the things I like about Tandem is that it seems to lend itself to variations, e.g. some of the decisions you made in implementation would also be reasonable variations. If you remove the ls...->t form, then you do have the property that, the state was changed iff the rule succeeded. But then the main distinction between 0 and 1 is erased, and I don't know where that leads to algebraically.
< 1593437536 472735 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@178.214.245.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: hi!
< 1593437539 402967 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw I made a small change to the language (labels can be strings, not just characters).  Not really worth implementing (unless you want to generate Tandem code using some other program)
< 1593437544 747224 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi!
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> 1593438745 293952 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74689&oldid=74655 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+75) 10/* LET me PRINT the CURSOR */
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< 1593439637 456758 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: Named rules is also interesting to consider (mainly as a way to define infinite rewriting rules (like you observed in asteration being 1 | R | R&R | etc.)) I have no idea where that goes.
< 1593439695 43150 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@178.214.245.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’d hope named rules don’t add anything special, as there is asteration already and the language is TC already, but I think they may add something…
< 1593439734 372440 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-dktmjpgroigzogmo JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593439820 697309 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, originally, my idea was sort of a semiring awkwardly stuck halfway between a Kleene algebra and a distributive lattice.  To make it work out, I pushed it towards Kleene algebra.  But pushing it the other way would also be interesting -- somehow make & and | distribute over each other.  Having infinite rewriting rules might fit in well there (but that's just a hunch.)
< 1593439939 902936 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Because there you wouldn't have asteration, but you'd still want to iterate the rewriting somehow, and maybe infinite rules could do that, maybe.)
< 1593440023 708158 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, obviously they could if you could define asteration using them.
< 1593440052 592844 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I'm quite up for thinking about this though, not at the moment
< 1593440089 967959 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just learned a little about Chu spaces and they are... very interesting.
> 1593440483 350161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74690&oldid=74689 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+470) 10/* LET me PRINT the CURSOR */
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> 1593445228 662125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tandem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74691&oldid=74640 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+150) 10/* Syntax */ Clarify role of whitespace. Other tweaks.
> 1593445588 805031 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tandem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74692&oldid=74691 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+675) 10/* Implementing Automata in Tandem */ Show how a Minsky machine can be implemented.
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< 1593446275 575837 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1
> 1593447175 988553 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tuplary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74693&oldid=74688 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+24) 10cat /* External resources */
< 1593449234 500184 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-146-112-4.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1593449268 481362 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@178.214.245.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :=> As such it is a model of Jean-Yves Girard's linear logic (Girard 1987).”
< 1593449272 156821 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@178.214.245.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1593449305 558267 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@178.214.245.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I just learned a little about Chu spaces and they are... very interesting. => oh! “As such it is a model of Jean-Yves Girard's linear logic (Girard 1987).”
< 1593451913 492929 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1593452851 220340 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-40.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric
> 1593455109 237222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Gogotron 5*  10New user account
< 1593455125 850188 :adu!~arobbins@h46.143.101.208.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1593455567 751526 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74694&oldid=74285 5* 03Gogotron 5* (+245) 10
> 1593455741 469421 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Piet14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74695&oldid=73635 5* 03Gogotron 5* (-1) 10The direction pointer doesn't start at the upper-right-most codel, but the upper-left-most codel. If it started on the right, facing right, it would just hit the edge of the image.
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> 1593459289 526708 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Binary to unary conversion14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74696&oldid=53232 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1) 10
> 1593459476 994606 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MinISCule14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74697&oldid=65537 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+21) 10/* External resources */ cAt
> 1593459479 994818 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74698&oldid=74605 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1919) 10
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> 1593460229 91523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printf14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74699&oldid=70964 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+122) 10
> 1593460259 341423 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printf14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74700&oldid=74699 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10
> 1593460265 972331 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printf14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74701&oldid=74700 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-1) 10CA
> 1593460347 668546 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pedo14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74702&oldid=38897 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+65) 10
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> 1593461575 269655 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74703&oldid=74698 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1017) 10
> 1593461631 2340 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Totally Accurate Malbolge14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74704&oldid=66250 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+48) 10/* Implementations */
> 1593461672 533536 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Total BF14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74705&oldid=52146 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+35) 10
> 1593461689 225881 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Total Vacuum14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74706&oldid=49790 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+31) 10
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> 1593464617 372674 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Gibberish/JavaScript/HTML interpreter14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74707&oldid=42724 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+3) 10
> 1593464717 943623 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Gibberish/JavaScript/Escape sequence14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74708&oldid=42734 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+31) 10
> 1593464900 328120 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Categorization14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74709&oldid=74256 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+34) 10/* Languages */ Somehow I doubt this category was approved...
> 1593465005 66009 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74710&oldid=74703 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-2936) 10Blanked the page
> 1593465029 801760 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Interstack14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74711 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+2972) 10add Interstack
> 1593465070 630819 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainstack14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74712&oldid=70682 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-17) 10/* Categories */ rm needless header
> 1593465107 584792 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74713&oldid=74610 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+65) 10/* Languages */
> 1593465136 541180 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74714&oldid=74628 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+17) 10/* I */ + [[Interstack]]
> 1593465200 647012 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74715&oldid=74713 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+19) 10/* Languages */
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> 1593467219 174177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Transposed14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74716&oldid=74633 5* 03ZippyMagician 5* (-30) 10Update factorial program
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< 1593469489 747757 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
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< 1593470420 873479 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593470586 863907 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@178.214.245.186 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
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< 1593471473 404321 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-b0480e-37.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
> 1593472476 41083 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Categorization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74717&oldid=74709 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+6) 10/* Paradigm */ Alerted people to the fact that Turning is not a typo of Turing
< 1593472508 434497 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1593472743 129786 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TECO14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74718 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+1268) 10Created page with "{{serious|URL=TECO_(text_editor)#As_a_programming_language}}  '''TECO''' is a 1963 language created for use in the text editor of the same name, designed for performing arbitr..."
> 1593474126 595715 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74719&oldid=74710 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+314) 10
< 1593479915 931213 :adu!~arobbins@h46.143.101.208.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric
> 1593484370 956395 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Transposed14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74720&oldid=74716 5* 03ZippyMagician 5* (+45) 10Update memsys
> 1593484391 205159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Transposed14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74721&oldid=74720 5* 03ZippyMagician 5* (+0) 10Capitalize
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> 1593489108 851358 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rui14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74722&oldid=73893 5* 03DanielCristofani 5* (+6) 10/* Instruction set */
> 1593489382 950740 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rui14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74723&oldid=74722 5* 03DanielCristofani 5* (+56) 10
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> 1593489414 94986 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rui14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74724&oldid=74723 5* 03DanielCristofani 5* (-2) 10
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> 1593491318 619050 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74725&oldid=72702 5* 03DanielCristofani 5* (-27) 10The idea that brainfuck has a tape is an old mistake based on conflating it with a Turing machine.
> 1593491379 776175 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74726&oldid=74725 5* 03DanielCristofani 5* (+11) 10
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< 1593499991 600010 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? password
< 1593499993 982482 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :The password of the month is peeping Tom.
< 1593500005 372128 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hwrl password
< 1593500006 275734 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/log/tip/wisdom/password
< 1593500034 460611 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The potm was more fun with oerjan...
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< 1593506460 406494 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I have some questions about the reduction you wrote in https://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:Brainfuck#Would_BF_still_be_TC_with_do-while_loops.3F about 5 years ago
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< 1593506581 141264 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm
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< 1593506784 427673 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I have no recollection of this :P
< 1593506830 228297 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen it widely assumed in research papers that, while the set of while-programs is Turing complete, the set of repeat-programs (aka do-while-programs) isn't. I've never seen it proved one way or the other though.
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< 1593506869 492893 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You seem to have made a reduction that reportedly works for at least brainfuck.
< 1593507058 805438 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess my first question is, have you ever seen a proof like this in a paper?
< 1593507068 92543 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never seen such a claim.
< 1593507170 434450 :xylochoron[m]!xylochoron@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-mdkjepipvteopeeb JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593507218 569615 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The inspiration for the reduction was really just that when we keep a flag of whether we're supposed to execute operations or not, then we can use that to control effects and undo them when needed.
< 1593507235 777704 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't recall any inspiration from the literature.
< 1593507418 340208 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did anyone solve the do/while thing yet?
< 1593507484 378946 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck has an array, but I don't think that was essential for this idea to work out.
< 1593507547 111662 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm not sure. Do you have a concrete language in mind? The actual operations kind of matter.
< 1593507559 197108 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I/O is a bit iffy.
< 1593507616 111898 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Hoare's 1969 paper he concocts a "language of while programs" for demonstrating his axiomatic semantics stuff.
< 1593507661 270551 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Wang also used a similar/the same language in some papers.
< 1593507682 275946 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's basically become A Staple of proglang semantics texts.
< 1593507743 172958 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's based on the observation that, if you have "while", you don't need "if", "for", "do-while", etc.
< 1593507764 288370 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main issue is that you don't get a proper conditional. Instead, any code that wants to be executed conditionally has to be painstakingly instrumented to not have any effect based on some condition.
< 1593507773 422888 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The main issue with do-while)
< 1593507794 689615 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that or be reversible, yeah
< 1593507808 274354 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in the case of Brainfuck without I/O that instrumentation is possible.
< 1593507826 819314 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow how does that instrumentation work? that is a different approach than I tohught of
< 1593507853 912592 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: see the link cpressey posted above, where this discussion started.
< 1593507908 220002 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which has a translation for >.< that works by accident.)
< 1593507960 842109 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I guess that also rules out any proper recursion (where a function would eventually call itself again).
< 1593507965 155287 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could believe that everyone just adopted "while" programs and ignored "do-while" programs because it was easy to show that "while" was universal (in this sense) and people just didn't care about "do-while" programs because they already had their example language for semantics
< 1593507978 385772 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: So for *practical* programming, do-while is certainly not sufficient.
< 1593507978 601264 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1593507983 267658 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's super interesting
< 1593508033 943896 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But from there to the claim that this may not even be TC... that's a long stretch.
< 1593508037 170265 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :far stretch?
< 1593508046 353192 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do need to implement reversibility to make it work, but reversible computing didn't really become a studied thing until much later
< 1593508049 699698 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im certain it's TC
< 1593508055 824008 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's very interesting that this is not trivial to show
< 1593508081 18608 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there is a proof of it in the literature, it might be in the reversible computing literature
< 1593508105 288381 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that brainfuck thing is certainly not reversible
< 1593508127 113219 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: you just said something about undoing what it just did though
< 1593508141 554679 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's all I mean by reversible in this instance
< 1593508151 40599 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking maybe you could translate reversible-bitfuck ==> doBF
< 1593508153 837475 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but actually it seems kinda hard
< 1593508158 691357 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Yes, but that's on the level of a single brainfuck operation.
< 1593508168 770867 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :+, -, >, <.
< 1593508180 486883 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ and ] do non-reversible things.
< 1593508181 25211 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: |spelling error
< 1593508181 133203 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: |   and ] do non-reversible things.
< 1593508181 133255 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: |                           ^
< 1593508185 521476 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-bot: thanks
< 1593508186 59641 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: |value error: thanks
< 1593508200 486698 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1593508261 919030 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1593508293 853467 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's interesting that it does complain about things but not the rest, though
< 1593508318 688587 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: And it's really inspiration. Look at what + does: it adds 1 to the flag (so now it's 1 or 2), adds the result to the actual cell and a temporary one (because brainfuck), then subtracts 1 from the result, copies the temp back to the flag, and then subtracts 1 from the flag again.
< 1593508370 656556 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is reversible, of course. But the main reason for that is that Brainfuck's + operation itself is reversible.
< 1593508432 183714 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, first things first: in a do-while bf, could you easily clone a cell?
< 1593508471 347785 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assume you have non-negative values only, then just add 1 first, and in the end remove 1 from the clones.
< 1593508554 232563 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps start one level below that: +[-] resets a cell to 0.
< 1593508599 456745 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, sounds reasonable. so let's assume 0/1 only, then you could replace a + in a do-while with [+{go to condition clone}-]-, couldn't you?
< 1593508603 113951 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :On that page Rdebath also reports that they've used the reduction to translate some non-trivial brainfuck programs to Do-While-Brainfuck, and run them on their Do-While-Brainfuck interpreter successfully.
< 1593508619 487513 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :While not a proof, it's pretty good evidence that the reduction is mostly not broken.
< 1593508628 922959 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah this is the main reason why I'm fairly confident that this works :)
< 1593508645 842570 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because as you can also see in that discussion, I got some details wrong at first.
< 1593508659 962614 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'd have to check the page history for details, not inclinded to do that.)
< 1593508691 656132 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: couldn't tgey just reduce the bf interpreter in bf to do-whie-bf?
< 1593508737 500420 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck's +-<> are reversible, but if you had to do it in a language with non-reversible things like "a := b + 5", you could implement reversibility in the reduction (i.e. in this case, save the old value of a on a stack or smth)
< 1593508752 76079 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: note that there's no translation for ',', and the translation for '.' produces extra NUL outputs when "skipped".
< 1593508771 28492 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad
< 1593508785 638400 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need multi-tape bf with the input on the second tape :>
< 1593508811 333396 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, "while programs" don't usually have I/O either
< 1593508811 978086 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :unavoidable, really... you have to make I/O primitives conditional in the language if you want a proper I/O-conforming reduction.
< 1593508855 937758 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least for the usual interactive programming model we have for terminals.
< 1593508880 68477 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess s=programming=I/O=
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< 1593510035 816066 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: You were talking about squarefree words the other day. Apparently the language of squarefree words is context-free, but not deterministic-context-free? Apparently there is also no concrete example of a context-free grammar for a non-deterministic-context-free language?
< 1593510073 324969 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter is from the WP article on PEG parsing. The former is from me trying to find an example of a CFG for a non-DCFL in the literature :)
< 1593510101 259784 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to work on my own projects, but I keep stumbling across open questions that I can't believe are open questions and they distract me
< 1593510155 888450 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1593510174 654792 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: What does "deterministic" mean here, and shouldn't any inherently ambiguous context-free language fit that bill? So, say, {a^n b^m c^k | n = m or m = k}?
< 1593510254 859960 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: "deterministic" means there is a deterministic PDA that parses it, the usual meaning
< 1593510306 290092 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: can you give a grammar equivalent to {a^n b^m c^k | n = m or m = k} ?
< 1593510315 839250 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, automata.
< 1593510373 573014 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: S -> AB C | A BC; AB -> a AB b | e; C -> c C | e; A -> a A | e; BC -> b BC c | e
< 1593510376 951860 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593510389 872407 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(e for empty string)
< 1593510491 747498 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, wait it's a bit more subtle than that.
< 1593510492 865840 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intuitively, it should work, since basically you'll have to decide up front whether you want to count the a's (to compare to the number of b's) or the b's (to compare to the number of c's).
< 1593510504 127147 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ambiguous is not quite the same thing as nondeterministic.
< 1593510617 392152 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i am still looking for a topic for a master thesis :p
< 1593510620 437372 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :S -> "x" S "x" | "x"        is the example they give for nondeterministic but not ambiguous.
< 1593510621 664292 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does a deterministic PDA give rise to an unambiguous grammar?
< 1593510644 668352 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deterministic implies unambiguous though, I'm pretty sure
< 1593510680 66488 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The open question is "to give a concrete example of a context-free language which cannot be recognized by a parsing expression grammar."  PEGs are deterministic.
< 1593510685 759181 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, then by contraposition, inherently unambiguous languages don't have deterministic PDAs.
< 1593510719 327025 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I think you mean inherently ambiguous?
< 1593510733 809266 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :S -> x S x | x has the problem that the same language is also generated by S -> x x S | x
< 1593510741 689609 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cp	yes.
< 1593510744 946838 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yes.,
< 1593510802 101109 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I wonder how that happens... sometimes tabs end up in the IRC message rather than being treated by the irssi input box. Maybe if they arrive in the same packet as the final return?)
< 1593510829 144839 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in test.
< 1593510844 941091 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not.
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< 1593511369 7064 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ehm.  It seems PEG has a "not" operator...
< 1593511400 681844 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1593511405 170478 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru NICK :arseniiv
< 1593511446 428681 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :positive and negative lookaheads, and curiously one can define only a negative one and get a positive as a double negative for free
< 1593511447 723184 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :PEGs have backtracking.
< 1593511482 5526 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as the recognized *language* is concerned, there's no distinction between e1 / e2 and e1 | e2.
< 1593511520 814084 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The difference is only apparent when you look at parse trees.
< 1593511538 961457 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593511549 791908 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, I think there were things with / making some things unparsable when you switch operands?
< 1593511601 187897 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why?
< 1593511610 455400 :APic!apic@apic.name JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593511614 216265 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don’t think I remember it correctly
< 1593511632 237499 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moin
< 1593511633 468417 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I get back to making my parser thing I’ll re-read a couple of articles
< 1593511652 842219 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :e1 / e2 and e2 / e1 should accept the same things, just potentially with different parse trees.
< 1593511660 861174 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think.
< 1593511679 319681 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do remember the set of languages is not smaller than context-free
< 1593511725 508378 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don’t think I formulated that thing above in the right words, yeah
< 1593511727 505555 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think what I'm missing is this: though PEG is determinstic, it might be able to recognize some or all non-deterministic CFLs, because it has more machinery in it than a PDA.
< 1593511734 344488 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Question about trading card games. Do there exist randomized booster packs of collectible cards where the same packs have both normal and oversized cards? 
< 1593511770 691644 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There'd be some logistical difficulties: either they have to add an extra strip of packaging to secure the normal cards, or fold the oversized cards in half.
< 1593511809 22142 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As applications, I'm thinking mostly of games like Heartstone where you have a leader/commander that you never shuffle into decks and so can be oversized and even double-sided for free.
< 1593511863 225 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just pack the normal sized cards side by side?
< 1593511897 448233 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, instead of one double-sized card and a single stack of 8, just put 2 stacks of 4 in the package
< 1593511929 17991 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: I don't think so, that would lead to physical damage to the cards before you open it
< 1593511965 832199 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :packing side by side works if you secure them somehow, like with two extra strips, or a rigid holder for products more expensive than a booster pack
< 1593511984 64560 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you may need a separator. or you could print the cards in a small case to pop them out
< 1593512003 47314 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, if you do add two extra strips to separate them, that could work
< 1593512013 962003 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if it's better than just one strip and cards on one side though
< 1593512030 659206 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric : e1 / e2 and e2 / e1 should accept the same things, just potentially with different parse trees. <=== the WP article gives a counterexample where the ordering does affect the language recognized
< 1593512064 308907 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd think its better to actually transport that because of increased stacking potential
< 1593512115 576960 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: or because of less damage to the oversized cards, yes
< 1593512151 833610 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though right now I'm thinking more of folded oversized cards: you can fold them safely if they add some partial depth perforations at printing because they don't need to be shuffled
< 1593512180 894373 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would hate them because they tend to never stay flat later
< 1593512274 969048 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe
< 1593512346 344448 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I guess make it an oversized card or two plus two small stacks of normal cards on the sides secured with two extra packaging straps that are glued or heat sealed to the seams of the package at its sides
< 1593512392 525667 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be more expensive to prepare manufacturing than ordinary booster packs of course, so it's worth only if you use the oversized cards well
< 1593512396 713868 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :join the cards together with perforation, upset all your customers :P
< 1593512421 434963 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought about that, too
< 1593512434 596975 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because I bet people will be annoyed and worry about cheating when the card borders aren't all smooth
< 1593512437 563263 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :)
< 1593512437 670933 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not directly together but to a small strip in the middle
< 1593512463 606466 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah, people that do that tend to use card sleaves anyway
< 1593512468 8320 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: hmm
< 1593512490 428483 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: but not necessarily opaque sleeves
< 1593512566 182607 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :marketing has to appeal to players who want to consider collecting and don't yet want to buy a ton of opaque sleeves, since they cost more than thin transparent sleeves
< 1593512575 912943 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic
< 1593512590 984908 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593512617 934343 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1593512669 832484 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593512751 999744 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: Actually I guess if you'd make a pre-stenciled frame for a pair of cards held in just two points, people might be happy enough. It works for cardboard playing pieces in many commercial board games after all.
< 1593512805 673740 :xylochoron[m]!xylochoron@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-mdkjepipvteopeeb QUIT :Quit: Idle for 30+ days
< 1593512842 855675 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anybody here has an opinion about zenonzard?
< 1593512850 58221 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: are those cardboard playing pieces that need to be shuffled and then indistinguishable, without putting them inside a fancy scrabble bag?
< 1593512865 709757 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Carcassone tiles come pre-cut so they look the same
< 1593513054 361998 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593513078 417245 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: As I recall it they come in a cardboard grame but are all attached to that the same way (just two spots, easy to break).
< 1593513097 736004 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the square root of the language of squarefree words
< 1593513105 167166 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But maybe Carcassonne was an exception. I don't know this for any specific game.
< 1593513116 995007 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: irrational
< 1593513148 770051 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic
< 1593513165 533000 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593513191 747691 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" [...] Apparently there is also no concrete example of a context-free grammar for a non-deterministic-context-free language?" => s -> a | c; a -> epsilon | C a | D a | A a B a; c -> epsilon | A c | B c | C c D c; the language of strings where either A and B are balanced matching parenthesis or C and D are balanced matching parenthesis. 
< 1593513278 125691 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait....
< 1593513288 347544 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that can be parsed with a deterministic machine? let me think
< 1593513451 117064 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I think it can't be. without backtracking or arbitrary lookahead you can't tell which of AB or CD will match, so if a long prefix of the string has both AB and CD balanced so far, then the state plus stack of the machine would have to track both the depth of A and the depth of C of the prefix, be able to increment and decrement either at any
< 1593513451 577136 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :time depending on the input, and a stack machine can't do that.
< 1593513585 597832 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is effectively the trick I want to use to make Consumer Society intrinsically nondeterministic context free, though I use a larger alphabet
< 1593513593 764116 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: woah, using lower case for non-terminals and upper case for terminals is confusing.
< 1593513612 760791 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: sorry
< 1593513630 475440 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think that's the way at least one book notates then
< 1593513632 50516 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :them
< 1593513652 212698 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's always somebody that breaks the conventions FOR NO GOOD REASON
< 1593513670 916121 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't make it right :P
< 1593513715 237035 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, make it S -> A | C; A -> epsilon | c A | d A | a A b A; C -> epsilon | a C | b C | c C d C; the language of strings where either a and b are balanced matching parenthesis or c and d are balanced matching parenthesis.
< 1593513755 370241 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea: de Bruijn indices, except they're for nonterminals
< 1593513772 333565 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes, yes, I know)
< 1593513804 652029 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course this is true for Consumer Society only if you look at it at just the right level, because after parsing it is Turing-complete and so it's uncomputable to determine if the program will run into a semantic error at runtime
< 1593514047 367561 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593514291 904363 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: hmm
< 1593514873 405477 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1593515678 884322 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593515868 292738 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
> 1593517038 34578 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tuplary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74727&oldid=74693 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (-2155) 10disaster
> 1593517297 176812 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tuplary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74728&oldid=74727 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+130) 10+nums
> 1593517360 338335 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tuplary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74729&oldid=74728 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+8) 10+
s
< 1593517419 806875 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1
> 1593517488 408797 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tuplary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74730&oldid=74729 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+229) 10+sign nums
> 1593517819 111198 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tuplary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74731&oldid=74730 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+404) 10+chars
> 1593518120 641548 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tuplary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74732&oldid=74731 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+259) 10+upchars
> 1593518700 289958 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tuplary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74733&oldid=74732 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+1315) 10+godchars
> 1593518939 280078 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tuplary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74734&oldid=74733 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+47) 10fix
> 1593519036 514307 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tuplary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74735&oldid=74734 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+12) 10+see
> 1593519132 967243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tuplary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74736&oldid=74735 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+34) 10+see
> 1593519422 101752 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:SASM14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74737 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+74) 10Created page with "Why does this exist? --~~~~"
> 1593519446 173439 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rui14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74738&oldid=74724 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+36) 10/* Implementations */ cat
> 1593519563 946963 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Snowflake14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74739&oldid=74614 5* 03Orisphera 5* (+14) 10
> 1593519804 917132 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TECO14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74740&oldid=74718 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10
> 1593520167 820677 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF-ASM:814]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74741&oldid=74440 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (-3402) 10I actually finished it
> 1593521366 805279 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74742&oldid=74719 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+965) 10
> 1593521853 47389 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07@text14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74743&oldid=68579 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+92) 10cats,misc
> 1593521898 636573 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07@text14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74744&oldid=74743 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+11) 10
< 1593521920 530890 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 JOIN :#esoteric
> 1593521982 471533 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07@text14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74745&oldid=74744 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+64) 10cafts
> 1593522677 608249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BitChanger14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74746&oldid=74509 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+814) 10/* Computational class */ Sketch what the reduction would look like
> 1593522765 782189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BitChanger14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74747&oldid=74746 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+277) 10Add command table.
> 1593522819 361605 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nil14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74748&oldid=65572 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+77) 10/* External resources */ cats
> 1593522882 40968 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Etcha14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74749&oldid=40945 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+46) 10This language is Turing-complete.
> 1593522984 918363 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nope.14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74750&oldid=72070 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+102) 10/* 6969 Assembler */ cats
> 1593523110 156117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74751&oldid=74742 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-1279) 10Blanked the page
> 1593523134 210146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Something positive14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74752 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1494) 10Created page with "{{lowercase}} '''something positive''' is an esolang by [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow]].  ==Overview== something positive is a [[string]]-[[rewriting]] language. Programs take..."
> 1593523151 983064 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Something positive14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74753&oldid=74752 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* Truth-machine */
> 1593523179 35349 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74754&oldid=74714 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+25) 10/* S */
> 1593523255 850727 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Solo14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74755&oldid=74351 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+44) 10/* Interpreter in C (solo.h) */
> 1593523293 442365 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74756&oldid=74715 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+60) 10/* Languages */
> 1593523502 640637 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Something positive14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74757&oldid=74753 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+105) 10/* Examples */
> 1593523538 727449 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Something positive14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74758&oldid=74757 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-1) 10/* Overview */
> 1593523596 271082 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly code14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74759&oldid=8592 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+45) 10dstnguish
> 1593523603 556900 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assembly code14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74760&oldid=74759 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10
> 1593523664 745272 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Machine code14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74761&oldid=8591 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+44) 10user A lamnguage
> 1593523735 152430 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SASM14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74762&oldid=68585 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+35) 10
> 1593524076 613076 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF-ASM:814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74763&oldid=74741 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+3757) 10Language remastered
> 1593524129 586903 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Vowels14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74764&oldid=71021 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+49) 10disambiguate
> 1593524162 317921 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Vowels (2017)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74765&oldid=52584 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+48) 10disambiguate
> 1593524376 356047 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF-ASM:814]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74766&oldid=74763 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (-3) 10fixed some bad grammar
> 1593524585 887676 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Vowels (2017)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74767&oldid=74765 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+400) 10Add computational class sketch.
> 1593525165 715380 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07V (FMota)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74768&oldid=50732 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+29) 10+year
< 1593525437 868879 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://xkcd.com/2309 esolanging much, eh?
> 1593525449 540654 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nhohnhehr14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74769&oldid=40957 5* 03Chris Pressey 5* (+41) 10+cat (We still don't know...)
< 1593525764 681887 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.57 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1
> 1593526483 732143 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74770&oldid=74308 5* 03Quadril-Is 5* (+48) 10
> 1593527078 901778 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BSoD14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74771&oldid=69355 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+19) 10/* Hello, World! */ cat
> 1593527104 143610 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BSoD14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74772&oldid=74771 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10
> 1593527242 177540 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nestplate14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74773&oldid=57390 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+29) 10
> 1593527760 937608 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07LolKek14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74774&oldid=73258 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+23) 10
< 1593528738 9494 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
> 1593529538 666872 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF-ASM:814]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74775&oldid=74766 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (-131) 10fix
< 1593530138 359538 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Quit: Quittin'.
> 1593530146 752882 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Marbelous14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74776&oldid=55527 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+37) 10/* Examples */ cat
< 1593530242 332347 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric
> 1593530546 991500 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF-ASM:814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74777&oldid=74775 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+648) 10+,const vars
> 1593530655 486453 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:DmilkaSTD14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74778&oldid=74683 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+70) 10
> 1593531651 38996 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Java'14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74779&oldid=72628 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+99) 10cats ++ bold ++ link
> 1593531696 554128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GreenBerry14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74780&oldid=70800 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+49) 10/* External resources */ cats
< 1593532067 496248 :MDead!~MDude@74.5.140.76 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593532214 487250 :MDude!~MDude@74.5.140.76 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1593532223 836758 :MDead!~MDude@74.5.140.76 NICK :MDude
< 1593532515 329341 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: Connection closed
> 1593532568 153970 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF-ASM:814]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74781&oldid=74777 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+290) 10+break bcause i'm lazy
> 1593532598 814592 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF-ASM:814]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74782&oldid=74781 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (-3) 10-spaces
> 1593532609 706824 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74783&oldid=74770 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-1040) 10
> 1593532633 34928 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74784&oldid=74783 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+31) 10
> 1593532645 823681 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74785&oldid=74784 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+5) 10
> 1593532729 316467 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF-ASM:814]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74786&oldid=74782 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+7) 10/* Break */ links
< 1593533459 254193 :MDead!~MDude@74.5.140.76 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1593533475 940116 :MDead!~MDude@74.5.140.76 NICK :MDude
< 1593536094 377001 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1593536130 970286 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric
> 1593536172 204730 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74787&oldid=74690 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+406) 10/* Operator */
> 1593537031 324913 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74788&oldid=74787 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+234) 10/* Operator */
> 1593537118 288857 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF-ASM:814]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74789&oldid=74786 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1) 10/* Memory management */
> 1593537364 122966 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Java''14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74790&oldid=21447 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+122) 10stub + cats
< 1593537439 777006 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593538027 73246 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:9c93:6313:d04a:1b1f QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1593538281 442082 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:986b:bd92:f82:a7f8 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593538537 800939 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :what control flow would you suggest for a language with values from the unit disc? (z ∈ C with |z| ≤ 1, though not arbitrary ones, to allow implementation: either usual float pairs, or cyclotomics, or something else)
< 1593539396 291273 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:986b:bd92:f82:a7f8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complex Fractran? :D
< 1593539618 96998 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:986b:bd92:f82:a7f8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh man, you could do fractran on arbitrary number fields and interpret the word "integer" to mean "element of the ring of integers of the number field"
< 1593540204 464383 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O
> 1593542947 14165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Conditional brainfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74791&oldid=71597 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+127) 10cats + links + bold + fix headers
> 1593543374 875292 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07InterpretMe14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74792&oldid=57700 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+97) 10cats
> 1593543426 847167 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ODDBALL14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74793&oldid=58454 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+28) 10/* External resources */ cat
> 1593543581 307265 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07HELP (Preprocessor)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74794&oldid=37175 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+119) 10cats + bold
> 1593543623 751991 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07HELP (Preprocessor)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74795&oldid=74794 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-2) 10/* See also */ cux
< 1593543853 727001 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-183.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric
> 1593543865 377305 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0714]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74796&oldid=64614 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+24) 10/* Computational Properties */
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> 1593544509 412070 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pointer14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74797&oldid=8512 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+75) 10
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> 1593544531 844247 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Call stack14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74798&oldid=60471 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10
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> 1593544636 317138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Call stack14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74799&oldid=74798 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-38) 10/* Esotericization */
> 1593544667 373372 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Call stack/Manipulation14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74800&oldid=46064 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+21) 10
> 1593544990 713819 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74801&oldid=74785 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+29) 10
> 1593545177 287446 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74802&oldid=74801 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+2307) 10
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> 1593545607 449463 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74803&oldid=74802 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10
> 1593545730 668365 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74804&oldid=74803 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10
> 1593546124 295779 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74805&oldid=74804 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10
> 1593546266 422008 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74806&oldid=74726 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-1) 10
> 1593546392 73225 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74807&oldid=74805 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-1) 10
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> 1593546537 980677 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74808&oldid=74807 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+44) 10
< 1593546850 875436 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric
> 1593546911 660698 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74809&oldid=74808 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-8) 10
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> 1593547983 843633 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Intolerant14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74810&oldid=34474 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+23) 10/* Potential Errors */ cat
> 1593547998 261479 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Intolerant14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74811&oldid=74810 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+20) 10
> 1593548659 485339 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ni14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74812&oldid=74474 5* 03DeybisMelendez 5* (-132) 10
> 1593549437 351812 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ni14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74813&oldid=74812 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+85) 10/* Computational class */
> 1593549983 316595 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Grime MC14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74814&oldid=67949 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+33) 10/* External resources */
> 1593550021 123463 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Chespirito14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74815&oldid=74527 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+102) 10/* Implementation */ equiv->deriv + cats
< 1593550104 77856 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any news since that old Baez post about whether there is a “golden type” Φ such that Φ² ≅ 1 + Φ with a natural isomorphism (natural like in seven trees in one)?
> 1593550126 77512 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74816&oldid=74788 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* kcufnairB */
< 1593550174 38073 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :an arithmetical error (alas!) and an unique type deliver the solution: (1 + U)² ≅ 1 + 2U ❝≅❞ 1 + (1 + U) (what was I thinking?!)
< 1593550552 498891 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :double mistake: I thought this still gives a correct solution when U is a singleton, but no, U ≇ 1 for the same reason I remembered it here, becase of its square. And anyway that’d be boring: one wants to find an infinite Φ
< 1593550652 621892 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's a natural isomorphism then Φ should be a functor, right?
> 1593550914 115627 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74817&oldid=74751 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+774) 10
< 1593551006 364336 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
> 1593551612 666078 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74818&oldid=74817 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-1) 10/* The blues instruction */
< 1593551667 74347 :dog_star!sid310875@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dtzjmtdtpzejvdpy QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1593551672 934398 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: mm I don’t know if a concrete type may be a functor. In the tree case though, T = μx. T′x where T′ is indeed a functor 1 + X²
> 1593551680 721738 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74819&oldid=74818 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+53) 10/* Interpreter */
< 1593551719 803678 :dog_star!sid310875@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-haoytypwlfenekuc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1593551797 972094 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I think one may ask about a functor F such that (μx. Fx)² ≅ 1 + (μx. Fx) though I’m not sure if we can take μx off and simplify this
< 1593551985 993037 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose now U³ ≅ 0. Then (A + U + U²)² ≅ A² + 2AU + (1 + A) U² = hmm no. Let’s try infinite series
< 1593552246 138730 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha, that just delegates the problem to finding the first coefficient of the series with the same property
< 1593552295 245091 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you care about the shape, not just the cardinality.
< 1593552313 397259 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1593552409 956439 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :in one place there were stated such an isomorphism requires inspecting no more than a fixed amount of data constructors
< 1593552419 220572 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't talking about the functor F that you're taking the fixed point of, but about the functor e.g. Tree a = Leaf | Branch (Tree a) (Tree a)
< 1593552511 220436 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn’t that just a constant functor (technically, up to replacing Leaf with Leaf a, but they should be equivalent)
< 1593552521 492346 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, I meant "Leaf a".
< 1593552536 964098 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1593552561 73967 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, and I lied, of course versions with Leaf and Leaf a are different
< 1593552606 853354 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway I'd be pretty surprised if you figured out a type that has this property.
< 1593552635 965775 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would be too! Now I have no hope after series failed me
< 1593552663 181543 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, of course there's an isomorphism between 1 + Nat and Nat^2. That's why you need naturality.
< 1593552802 97359 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had not much hope from the start as I haven’t got as many mathematician friend as Baez does, so if they haven’t figured it out in several weeks or years (supposing that after that they either forgot ot he wouldn’t append a note to that old post when the solution would be found), how would I in a burst of procrastinative initiative (at most a couple of hours)?
< 1593552812 933011 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/friend/friends
< 1593552869 553464 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :here’s another question, maybe more fruitful: how would one prove that there’s no such type?
< 1593552884 614367 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in a suitable type theory)
< 1593552966 986835 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we could say Φ is almost surely not a regular tree type or what are they called (not a polynomial nor a recursive type involving polynomials)
< 1593553034 357063 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I’m not entirely sure about recursive polynomial types. I thought any of them is isomorphic to some series, and if that’s not the case…
< 1593553076 261608 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe unique types couldn’t save us either
< 1593553113 486353 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, “generalized unique types”, like U such that U³ ≅ 0
< 1593553120 998996 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :nilpotent types
< 1593553155 733107 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :and on that my knowledge of various type-algebraic things ends
< 1593553285 951793 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, also I heard about realizing negative and quotient types—and they say that’s hard on its own and then so much as impossible if one wants to have both together
< 1593553693 478807 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :also of note: it seems one can’t talk about an antidiagonal X^2̲ (and a diagonal in first place) of X² if not (Eq X). For the same reason one can’t talk about an upper antidiagonal X^2̲ / 2! ≡ binom(X, 2) if not (Ord X). That shouldn’t directly relate to the previous, I’m just reading old sigfpe
< 1593553743 573059 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(one can replace 2 with n here)
< 1593553846 554100 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.179.64.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask rain1 BTW what did you wanted symmetric polynomials for? Just curious
< 1593553846 554169 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
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> 1593560247 513308 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Losescript14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74820&oldid=61562 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-12) 10
> 1593560284 855906 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Losescript14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74821&oldid=74820 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+6) 10/* It does the Achermann function below: */
> 1593560324 887205 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Losescript14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74822&oldid=74821 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+79) 10/* Turing-completeness */ cats
> 1593560354 914018 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[072D-BCT14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74823&oldid=55748 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+52) 10/* Wierdness */ cats
> 1593560421 77936 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[071st-Worst14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74824&oldid=65102 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+9) 10
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